Jeff Garlin

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Emmy nominated Memdica Padman.

[2] I'm joined by Emmy nominated Dan Shepard.

[3] Never been nominated.

[4] Soon, soon, soon.

[5] Soon, soon.

[6] Today we have Jeff Garland.

[7] We love him.

[8] He's an actor, a writer, a director, a producer.

[9] Comedian.

[10] Comedian.

[11] He's on Curb Your Enthusiasm.

[12] The Goldbergs.

[13] He's in Wally, Daddy Daycare.

[14] He is a very lovable gentleman.

[15] I came to know him.

[16] I think when doing the Conan O 'Brien show, we were out there together.

[17] We had just a blast together, and that's kind of where our friendship was forged.

[18] Also, before we get to Jeff Garland, Cleveland, come party with us on June 23rd.

[19] Tickets on our website for our live show.

[20] Also, Detroit, don't let me down Detroit.

[21] I want to see a packed house at the Fox on June 21st.

[22] Homecoming.

[23] Should I wear an outfit for that?

[24] Yeah, homecoming outfit.

[25] So, like, with the robe and the king crown, yeah.

[26] You don't think that'll be off -putting to see me enter as a monarch?

[27] I think if I come out as a monarch, people would be like, oh, this guy really getting high on his own supply.

[28] Yeah.

[29] He's drinking his own cool, yeah.

[30] This guy's a real dick.

[31] Yeah.

[32] We'll find out.

[33] Okay.

[34] Detroit, June 21st.

[35] So go to the website, www.

[36] Warmchairexpertpod .com.

[37] You wish it was a dot org so bad.

[38] No, I don't believe in dot orgs anymore.

[39] The myth has been busted.

[40] Disillusioned.

[41] Very sad about it.

[42] Please enjoy Jeff Garland.

[43] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[44] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[45] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[46] Jeff Garland, you got to watch me just sprint back and forth in the attic.

[47] Did you think I looked athletic, considering I have a surgical boot on?

[48] You do move with the greatest of ease.

[49] That's my opinion.

[50] That's what I want.

[51] My whole goal.

[52] You're actually a specimen of a man. You're very handsome.

[53] Oh, wow.

[54] I like your hair.

[55] Your arms are you toned.

[56] Thank you.

[57] You're a guy, even with a foot problem who just is doing it.

[58] Oh, God bless you.

[59] Yeah.

[60] Well, you know, you've always been really nice to me. You're not really laying to the choir right now.

[61] In the past, when you had no incentive, you were always kind to me. To need an incentive to be kind.

[62] It's so absurd.

[63] No, I have dug you since I first heard about you from Bob Odenkirk.

[64] Oh, that makes sense, I suppose.

[65] Yeah, and then I have followed you and think you're just a big bowl of wonderful.

[66] Thank you.

[67] I love you.

[68] I remember very, very vividly our first interactions.

[69] And maybe I'm wrong, but to my record, we were both on Conan together one time.

[70] Uh -huh.

[71] back in New York.

[72] And I was talking about that I have kind of a monopoly on playing duches in movies.

[73] Like if you need a douche bag, you pick up the phone, I'm going to answer.

[74] I'll be there.

[75] Right.

[76] And then after the show, you said, I want you to know you don't give off any douchy quality whatsoever.

[77] I don't know.

[78] I'm one of those people who, when I think it, I say it.

[79] Yeah.

[80] And I found it to be really nice and charming.

[81] You were telling, as I recall, some story involving you getting a massage in a hotel.

[82] Do you recall this?

[83] Well, I have some massage stories.

[84] This might have been the one at the HBO luxury lounge where the table broke.

[85] Oh, yes, exactly.

[86] Yeah, falling naked is always unsettling.

[87] Oh, my.

[88] Well, first of all, it just sounds dangerous.

[89] It was very dangerous.

[90] And on the way down, I farted, which let me know that's how your body reacts when it falls naked.

[91] Sure.

[92] And then when she came back in, you know, I covered my wiener and I said, I'm very sorry if there's any smell.

[93] Yeah.

[94] Oh, my gosh.

[95] So lucky for you, she was out of the room.

[96] When it happened, yes.

[97] It was during the period of, I'm going to go wash my hands.

[98] Oh, sure, sure.

[99] I always want to wash their hands so they're so clean before you, where I'd be more concerned with after who you ever, you massage, you wash your hands.

[100] Anyhow, I put my arm on the table, and I've gotten many a massage.

[101] As I lifted my leg up and went to lay on the table, it collapsed.

[102] Oh, my goodness.

[103] Yeah.

[104] Oh, boy.

[105] It was very unsettling.

[106] But it makes a ton of sense that you tooted because your entire body now braces for impact and you're squeezing all the muscles in your body.

[107] And I did cover my wiener because I felt like that would be also very rude.

[108] She comes back in and already doesn't smell so great.

[109] You fucked up her table.

[110] She needs to see my wiener?

[111] No, thank you.

[112] And the cherry on the cake is your penis.

[113] That was very kind of you.

[114] Yeah, I'm thoughtful.

[115] Yeah.

[116] And you don't give off any dushiness.

[117] Oh.

[118] But that shows your skill as an actor that you can play a douche.

[119] You know, I can really play.

[120] been given the opportunity, slightly on the Goldbergs because I'm a kermudgeon, but I can play a really jerky asshole.

[121] As a matter of fact, Ben Stiller, when he was doing curb one time, and I had just shaved my head for curb, he said, man, you should be cast as a villain.

[122] And I said, from your mouth to God's ears.

[123] Yeah.

[124] I would love to be a horrible villain.

[125] Do you ever, like, you'll do a movie or a show with somebody, and you're kind of watching what they're doing and you're seeing how much fun it is.

[126] And then you start thinking like, God, I got to do that.

[127] You know what?

[128] I watched, I took a lot from, was I did mad about you, and Carol Burnett was on.

[129] And I watched the way she handled herself and how she approached things and how she treated people who approached her, you know, which was always delightful.

[130] So I watched her very closely.

[131] And are you gracious if somewhere to bump in the real?

[132] I hope so.

[133] I mean, I think I am.

[134] But it's like one of those things like, who am I to say I'm a good guy?

[135] Let other people decide, you know?

[136] Yeah.

[137] Because many jerks think they're good guys.

[138] Well, but then, you know, and so I don't want to be the one going, oh, I'm a great guy.

[139] I'm so gracious.

[140] Well, but then there's also the reality of life, which is there were many trips I took back to Detroit to deal with my father, dying of cancer, and I'm in an airport, and I'm not feeling very fucking friendly, you know?

[141] Let's discuss that.

[142] And at a certain point, go, no, man, I feel like shit, and that's what you're going to get.

[143] I'm sorry.

[144] Well, that's good that you can do that.

[145] I had an experience the other night where my heart was broken.

[146] I was very confused.

[147] I was very sad.

[148] And for some reason, I discussed this in therapy the other day, but at least a dozen people came up to me, and I'm not exaggerating.

[149] Every one of them told me how much I mean to them, how I helped them with their lives and their pain.

[150] There were none like, oh, you're so funny, like general stuff.

[151] It was all deep.

[152] And what it was to me was the universe sending me a message, you feel horrible, you feel you've done something.

[153] You're a good guy and you're doing nice things for people.

[154] strange and i didn't notice it in the moment it wasn't until a day or two later reflecting but can i add another theory to it yes which is you might have been a little unaware of how you were carrying yourself right in other people may have observed that you were looking a little sad and you run the risk i run the risk as the good time charlie we don't really let people see too often when we're smart and on something right and that when you do avail yourself to others they will show up for you, but it's also hard to receive, isn't it?

[155] Very hard to receive in that moment because I wanted to look at them and go, do you have any idea what I'm going through, the pain I'm in, but thank you.

[156] Yeah.

[157] But I just said thank you to all of them.

[158] And by the way, it could be something in my body language that did say, hey, I'm approachable, even though I wasn't.

[159] Hey, I need a life raft over here.

[160] Oh, yeah.

[161] Just have to assume it was romantically related, was it?

[162] It was very much so, yes, yes.

[163] I'm going through a divorce right now, and I have.

[164] had an unrequited love situation.

[165] Yeah.

[166] But that's now over.

[167] Yeah.

[168] But I feel great.

[169] Can I ask you something?

[170] Yeah.

[171] Because you were married for quite a long time.

[172] Yeah, 25 years.

[173] 25 years.

[174] To a wonderful woman who I still love madly.

[175] And who gave you two beautiful boys?

[176] Yes, two beautiful boys who I love.

[177] I love them all.

[178] The most gentile names I've ever heard, by the way.

[179] James and Duke.

[180] That's like John Wayne's kids.

[181] Aaron Duke.

[182] His Duke's first real name is Aaron.

[183] We wanted to call him Duke.

[184] Uh -huh.

[185] But that's too strong of a name to give a baby.

[186] So we waited until he showed that he's very Duke -like.

[187] How about, though, when he really made a mess of his diaper, you probably called him Duke.

[188] Well, yeah, that's the poopie.

[189] But by the way, I never used that for Duty Duke before.

[190] Dookie.

[191] Well, but just even if you saw that he took a man -sized dump and you were telling your wife, sure, you'd be like, Duke really ruined the diaper.

[192] Yes.

[193] I don't know what you fed him.

[194] Where do those names come from?

[195] James comes from my great -grandfather.

[196] Because you needed a J. Yeah, and Aaron comes from Abe, my other great -grandfather, you know, because Jews we name after someone who's dead.

[197] So my brother converted to Judaism.

[198] And he's probably the biggest Jew you know.

[199] For a period, he was.

[200] When people convert, they're the biggest Jews, I know, especially women, when they get married, they convert.

[201] Yeah.

[202] There's no sense even competing.

[203] They're as big a Jew as you've ever met.

[204] Totally agree.

[205] And in this case was neither my brother or his wife were Jewish.

[206] It was, I do believe, motivated a lot that their children were being raised in a neighborhood of all Jewish people.

[207] They were going to JCC for preschool and my brother's always had this affinity for Judaism and then they just decided, what do we do?

[208] And let's convert.

[209] They converted.

[210] So there was a period, especially when the kids were young and they were trying to teach them all the traditions and stuff.

[211] Well, I got to be a part of some of those.

[212] I love the baby naming ceremony.

[213] I'm an atheist, but of the different religions I've been around where I got...

[214] I love to talk about that with you because I have strong feelings about atheism.

[215] Oh, good.

[216] Let's hash it out.

[217] But let me just say that I've participated in different rituals from different religions.

[218] And the ones that I seem to at least intellectually appreciate the most tend to be the Jewish ones.

[219] Like the baby naming ceremony is the coolest tradition because all it is a great excuse to sit down and remember somebody.

[220] Yes.

[221] Which when are you going to schedule that?

[222] But every time a baby arrives, you get this opportunity, right?

[223] To remember the past, yes.

[224] It's so cool.

[225] I really, really like it.

[226] I don't even need to know that it stems from Yahweh to enjoy it.

[227] Like, it doesn't matter to me that I disagree with the origin, maybe.

[228] How many your thoughts on atheism?

[229] I think atheism is completely wrong.

[230] Okay, great.

[231] I can understand someone being an agnostic.

[232] I also don't agree with Baptists, with Christians, with Jews, with Catholics, to where it's completely specific.

[233] By the way, what works, works for me. What works for me is there's something bigger than me. Well.

[234] And I don't know what it is.

[235] and I accept it, and you could even refer to it as the universe.

[236] Sure.

[237] The universe equals God in my book.

[238] But to say that there is no God or nothing bigger...

[239] Also presumes some kind of knowledge you don't have that.

[240] And by the way, I'm cool with you even being an atheist.

[241] But I really do believe in there's something bigger than me, but I do not know what it is, and I am not going to label it.

[242] It's a little arrogant to assume you know what it is, right?

[243] Very much.

[244] Yeah.

[245] All right, so one night I'm performing...

[246] Equally arrogant for me. to go there isn't so i so i can or there's only a certain god a uh a jewish god or whatever no no no no man yeah i feel humble as a human being mm -hmm that i don't know fucking anything sure i was on stage one night dude sitting in the front row is wearing what i thought was a star track pendant it looked just like the for the i forgot what they called the yeah i almost said millennial falcon no no the whatever they would contact and would give them a news and information of here's where you're going.

[247] People are listening or know it.

[248] They're driving their cars into trees.

[249] Yeah, by the way, a big trekkey is really.

[250] So I said the dude, you went to Star Trek?

[251] He goes, no. I go, well, why are you wearing the Star Trek pendant?

[252] He goes, oh, that's because I'm an atheist.

[253] I go, you're wearing something to tell me that you don't believe in anything.

[254] I go, you don't think that's weird.

[255] He goes, yeah, when I walk down the street, I want people to know that I'm an atheist.

[256] And I thought, interesting.

[257] This is just insane.

[258] thought that was super arrogant.

[259] Sure.

[260] And somebody with an ego problem.

[261] Okay, you're right.

[262] So now let's back the fuck up.

[263] So I'm in a program that requires, I believe, in a higher power.

[264] Okay.

[265] Right.

[266] Yes.

[267] So first and foremost, you're absolutely correct.

[268] I could never prove there's no God nor would I waste any of our time doing itself.

[269] I personally just don't think there is, but that's fine.

[270] But I have to believe in a power greater than myself.

[271] All this is happening, the tides are going in and out.

[272] There's some symmetry where it's all working.

[273] And I'm not at the crux of of that.

[274] Isn't that the universe?

[275] It certainly is.

[276] And I can also, I equate the universe with God.

[277] Yeah, because God is a strange, all -powerful word.

[278] But I think that it's, we're all connected.

[279] I bump up against the, like, kind of sentient nature of it.

[280] It's some kind of anthropomic expression.

[281] But here's the thing, though, I find organized religion, completely arrogant and almost anti -humane.

[282] Sure.

[283] On a lot of levels.

[284] A lot of wars and things are started because of that.

[285] And that's because of their definition of God.

[286] I think that if we all agree that there's something bigger than us, we're in a delightful state.

[287] I'm happy to concede that, well, there's many forces bigger than me. Well, here's where it gets tricky.

[288] Not only do I have to believe in a power greater than myself, but I also have to turn my will over to that.

[289] And that gets really dicey since I don't actually believe there's something I can turn my will over to.

[290] But again, here's how I get around that as I go, there's this incredible symmetry to everything.

[291] It's all working so well.

[292] And I know when I do things that are bruscling up against that symmetry, I just know.

[293] I can feel it.

[294] I know when I'm trying to bend the universe to my will or to you to my will.

[295] I can tell.

[296] If I'm very, very honest with myself, there's a big difference between just doing the hard work and then the results are what they are and trying to control the results.

[297] For me, I just, I do the hard work and then fucking I don't know what happens, right?

[298] That's how I turn my will over to the universe.

[299] is I'm not going to exert.

[300] But isn't that about being humble and saying there's something bigger than you?

[301] Yeah.

[302] So again, also the collective.

[303] I don't think you're atheism.

[304] The collective is much bigger than me too.

[305] If I sit in a meeting, I go, oh my God, there's some weird thing here that I know science can't yet measure, but I can feel it.

[306] But I don't know that it's necessarily scientific and or spiritual.

[307] I don't know what it is.

[308] I'm just this schmuck who does comedy trying to help ease people's pain.

[309] It's so being humble and confident in your skills, there's no more delightful combination.

[310] Yeah, and it takes a long time, right.

[311] You can tell me I'm the least funny comedian that you know, and you're having me on the show as a favorite to your wife.

[312] And I go, oh, that's nice of you.

[313] No, but it's like, all right, if you think that everyone's funnier than me enjoy.

[314] But again, can I come at that from another angle?

[315] You can come at it from every angle?

[316] What I take from that is that Jeff Garland doesn't have a fear of not being funny.

[317] None.

[318] You don't.

[319] Like me. I got fired last year from a sitcom.

[320] I had never been fired before.

[321] Oh, I've been fired many.

[322] That helps with the fear.

[323] Yeah, so when I left, and a good friend of mine was on that sitcom, and he called me, he was like panicked about what I was going through.

[324] And I said, you know, if I had gotten fired because they said I'm dumb, I'd be in an uproar right now.

[325] Because I have a fear of people thinking I'm dumb.

[326] But you know what?

[327] There's a few things I know about myself.

[328] I'm funny.

[329] Sorry.

[330] By the way, I'll line up and sign that petition that you're funny.

[331] And so if I get fired, I can recognize some.

[332] other thing was going on that wasn't whether or not I'm funny right you know something else or the people that fired you do not have a sense of humor or my sense of humor whatever well yes that's nice of you to even add the my sense of humor no well but we both know other other comedians our peers are not always the most gracious group not no not gracious because we think we're competing with one another at all times that's what they think that's why as i've gotten older and been a comedian longer.

[333] I spend a lot less time with comedians than I used to.

[334] I'm going to give you an example as to why your marriage works.

[335] Please do.

[336] Okay.

[337] Her success brings you just as much joy, if not more than your own.

[338] And she has the same thing.

[339] And that I would say is the crux.

[340] Everything relies on that for those types of relationships.

[341] I would love to be with a female comedian.

[342] I would love that.

[343] I don't know anyone that's going to be happy for me. I'd be happy.

[344] I'd be happy.

[345] for them yeah my nature yeah well i must tell you it was a long road to here though i'll be the first to admit that my male ego was very troubled that my wife made more money than me and by the way and it's so fucking stupid but that doesn't matter that it's stupid you could have lost that wonderful person oh 100 percent right but now you know that it's about the joy of her success well you know it helped you make these two little humans and now it's so not it's all about these two.

[346] So they can actually look at her success and go, how lucky am I that I have a partner that can help me get these kids into college and across the finish line?

[347] Yes.

[348] That's a beautiful thing that children provide that it makes you selfless, whether you want to or not.

[349] How old are your boys now?

[350] They're 18 and 22.

[351] And I am incredibly close with them.

[352] It's terribly difficult because they're so close to being men that it's hard to watch them be mentally challenged, but that's what they do until they're in their mid to late 20s.

[353] Yeah.

[354] I have to strap myself in because my expectations when they're eight are minimal.

[355] Yes.

[356] My expectations when they're 20 are much greater.

[357] Yes.

[358] But I don't put on them my agenda.

[359] What are your expectations?

[360] It's just that they're humble and they are moving in a direction that will help them lead a fulfilled life.

[361] Right.

[362] Yeah.

[363] And that they work hard and they care about putting in a good day's work.

[364] You had a very lofty dream and you accomplished that dream.

[365] And I'm assuming you had the revelation of like, oh, wow, I really thought for certain if I was the lead of a TV show, I would feel perfect all day long.

[366] Well, that's the, yes, that's the stupidity of youth where you think success is going to make you fulfilled.

[367] Right.

[368] So you and I are in a unique parenting situation where my mom, rightly so, is like, hey, get a pliable trade so you can fucking eat.

[369] But we did that and we said to ourselves, oh, wow, the work started after that.

[370] The real work on fulfillment starts after the illusion has been shattered.

[371] And so you almost want for your kids like, you know what, sure, chase whatever you want.

[372] But fuck that.

[373] Also, being the spiritual path, like, I want you to feel good.

[374] My older boy, I had him taught Transcendental Meditation.

[375] Oh, great.

[376] And I'm going to do that with my younger son.

[377] The thing is, I have fought long and hard within my own mind in terms of wanting to protect my children, wanting to give my children everything.

[378] And all I can do, I realize the big lesson was I can't make them have a great work ethic.

[379] I can't.

[380] These are all things.

[381] The only thing I can do is they know their dad loves them and respects them.

[382] Yeah.

[383] I can do it because I found respect to be the key thing in terms of my relationship with my children.

[384] It started around 14 or 15 as opposed to yelling and punishing when they know you respect them and they've done something to disrespect you or disrespect that relationship, they feel it.

[385] A hundred percent.

[386] That's how my mom raised me. When I was in trouble, it wasn't like you're in trouble.

[387] It was like, hey, man, I fucking believe in you, I trust you, I empower you, I give you so much slack.

[388] And your end of the deal is that you don't throw a pie in my face.

[389] By the way, that is it.

[390] From my viewpoint now, looking back on raising an 18 and a 22 year old, that's all you can do.

[391] Anything more than that?

[392] I'm at a loss as to what more you can do than show them love and respect and hope that they see that and it comes back to you.

[393] In great measures, it has come back to me. But still, I don't know what I can do more than that.

[394] Hey, man, you've got to go work all day.

[395] Hey, man, you got to, it just, I sound like noise.

[396] Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.

[397] Another thing that I've done that has been pretty successful and helped is I ask them what they think about a situation.

[398] Let me hear your thoughts before I say a word.

[399] Yeah, I love that.

[400] And that has been very beneficial.

[401] Well, now, in my experience, the father's son relationship is raw.

[402] with complexity, at least in my experience, it was.

[403] My dad and I had a very challenging relationship that many times, probably all coming from me, I don't know, me punishing him for divorcing my mom or something.

[404] What was your model like?

[405] Did you have a great relationship with your dad?

[406] Your dad sold plumbing supplies?

[407] We had a family plumbing supply business, and then he was a legal administrator for law firms.

[408] My dad was a very blue collar, a white collar, blue collar guy, like half would be white, half would be blue.

[409] And this is in Chicago.

[410] And is in Chicago and then South Florida.

[411] In the 60s.

[412] 60s and 70s.

[413] Right.

[414] Okay.

[415] So the dude just didn't understand that I wanted to be a comedian.

[416] And he shoved college down my throat.

[417] Right.

[418] Well, he's probably scared for you, right?

[419] He was scared, yes.

[420] And we clashed on that heavy.

[421] Yeah.

[422] You're a big dude.

[423] Was your dad a big guy?

[424] Not as big as me. Okay.

[425] Yeah, my brother's not as big as me. Okay.

[426] But I didn't use that against.

[427] Right, right.

[428] I will kick your ass down.

[429] Yeah.

[430] No, but...

[431] That's how it went in my...

[432] But my father very much wanted me to become a lawyer, becomes a professional of some sort.

[433] That's also the Jewish thing.

[434] But also, as my saying this, the dude was a loving dude.

[435] Uh -huh.

[436] He was a great guy.

[437] Yeah.

[438] And so it was the only thing that we fought on.

[439] Right.

[440] The only thing ever.

[441] And then about three, four years in, he said to me, you know, you're as good as any comedian I've ever seen, and I'm so happy you went down this path.

[442] Oh, wow.

[443] Wow.

[444] Which was so touching.

[445] How old were you when that happened?

[446] Mid -20s?

[447] Oh, that's lovely.

[448] Yeah.

[449] Well, then you answered one of my questions, which was you moved to South Florida in sixth grade, which I think could be very challenging.

[450] It was very challenging because I was the first Jew that a lot of kids down there.

[451] I mean, some people don't look at South Florida as the South, but it's very much the South.

[452] And I got into a lot of fights, and my humor helped me get out of fights.

[453] I didn't like fighting and I didn't want to fight.

[454] Right.

[455] Yeah.

[456] What part of South Florida?

[457] Plantation, Florida, which is just outside of Fort Lauderdale.

[458] That sounds so racist, doesn't it?

[459] By the way, yeah, and the grocery store was Win Dixie.

[460] Sure, sure, sure.

[461] So, yeah, it was really Plantation, Florida.

[462] You don't get more racist sounding than that.

[463] No, you're friends with John Stewart.

[464] Yes.

[465] And he was on Stern, and he was talking about the rabbinical approach to things.

[466] And I found it so appealing.

[467] There is this unique communication style that the rabbis use.

[468] And, again, it's another element I'm attracted to.

[469] kind of, I can have my opinion yet I can be super respectful to hearing yours and give it the time it deserves and all that.

[470] And there's just a confidence in one's opinion that allows them to be open and listen to others.

[471] Listening is the whole thing, man. Our country is so divided.

[472] And all it needs is, oh, you feel that way.

[473] I feel this way.

[474] Let's talk about it.

[475] It's like it's just a minimal thing of agree to disagree.

[476] Yeah, it's not life or death that you and I differ.

[477] I know.

[478] But that's how people approach it and it's kind of disgusting yeah it's troublesome yeah um but so you were into sports but then you discovered i guess at a semi uh young age that you had an electrical issue with your heart i did wolf parkinson white syndrome which by the way professional athletes get now and they just have it taken care of but when i had it they told me the only choice you have is to have open heart surgery and i'm like really so i didn't do anything and then i end up being this is really kind of amazing I was number 72 of this new procedure.

[479] And there were doctors from Harvard and UCLA in the room.

[480] I remember when they were doing this procedure on me. I was the 72nd.

[481] The equipment that they used them, he said, not for human use.

[482] That's always reassuring.

[483] And how old were you when you had that?

[484] The procedure, I was 27.

[485] So I was already a comedian.

[486] Because a good friend of mine had a very similar thing, right?

[487] You live with this kind of black cloth.

[488] There's a few things that are scarier than your heart being.

[489] The number of times that I thought I was dead, I can't even begin to count.

[490] Right, because I didn't even have a condition and I was certain I was having a heart attack like 12 times, right?

[491] So I can only imagine if I had a condition.

[492] I remember being on stage at Second City saying to my castmates, you got a cover for me and going off into like this little hallway, which is alone which nobody can really get to.

[493] And laying there going, well, this is how you die.

[494] I try to keep my cool so it's not to freak out others.

[495] Well, also you're thinking the worst thing that can happen right now is I get a. and the heart starts beating even faster, right?

[496] Well, that would be, it's all scary.

[497] Yeah.

[498] But by the way, that helped make me a better person and a better comedian.

[499] How so?

[500] Because it makes you humble.

[501] The more humble you are, the more vulnerable you are, the better artist you are, and the better person you are.

[502] Yeah, I completely agree with that.

[503] And that's why friends who have children who are facing adversity of health, I say it's going to make them a better person.

[504] Yeah.

[505] They will rise above this.

[506] Well, that's the other huge trick.

[507] in parenting is like your inclination is to prevent them from any discomfort because they're an extension of you.

[508] And then you often have the power to do that.

[509] And you have to regularly remind yourself like, no, no, they need those tools.

[510] I remember my son being in trouble at school and wrongly.

[511] But I had to say to them, hey, man, there are going to be dicks in your life.

[512] There are going to be situations that you can.

[513] So I can't go in and fight your battle.

[514] Yeah.

[515] But I agree with you.

[516] But know that this is part of what the world offers.

[517] And I apologize for having to present that to you, but it's my job.

[518] Sounds like you and my mother could have done a great job raising someone, because I one time wanted, I had a third grade teacher that I just, she hated my guts, and maybe rightly so, and I hated her guts.

[519] Why do you always say that?

[520] You always throw the sentence, I, you know, I had this, but maybe it was me. Well, can I tell you why I approach things this way?

[521] Yeah, why?

[522] Because the only variable in the equation between Mrs. House and Dax Shepherd that I have control over is Dax Shepard.

[523] So the only person in life.

[524] I'm going to change.

[525] If I want a different outcome, if it's Dax Shepherd plus Mrs. House, and I don't like the fucking outcome, I can't change Mrs. House.

[526] So who am I going to change?

[527] I am not going there, but that doesn't mean that she's not 100 % wrong.

[528] That means you're going to a humble and light and level.

[529] So I did not like Mrs. House.

[530] To the point where, well, I was begging my mother, like, can you get me out of this class?

[531] There was another third grade teacher in the school.

[532] And so she said, listen, hon, you're going to have a lot of Mrs. houses you're going to have a mrs house as a boss you're going to have a mrs house as a fucking you know you name it oh my god they're all over yeah and if this is the only one you'll ever encounter sure i'll get you out of it but i think it's a great time to practice on how to deal with a mrs house so what a genius mom you had a couple things happened and it got to the point where my mom finally said you know what i'm going to i'm going to go down there and i'm going to get you out and she went down and she came back and she said they will transfer you and it's that thing you were talking about i was like, God, you just went and did all that for me. And I go, I'm going to stick it out.

[533] Because I knew it would make her happy.

[534] I knew she wanted me to learn to deal with someone I didn't like.

[535] And she had proved to me that she'd go to the mat for me. And then I ultimately was like, I'll stay.

[536] And then I ended up staying.

[537] Look at you.

[538] I read some.

[539] So I don't, I don't feel like I'm outing exposing you because you seem to be open about it, which I totally appreciate it.

[540] I'm open about everything in my life.

[541] You say that your eating is addictive, right?

[542] Yes, very much.

[543] That is my addiction.

[544] No doubt about it is eating.

[545] I can go two years without smoking pot.

[546] I can go two years without having a drink.

[547] It has no bearing on me. If you were to give me a plate of brownies right now, I would be on the fast track to killing myself faster than, you know, if you're lucky, you know what it is that gets you.

[548] See, right now, unfortunately, for me, I'm in a gray area, which is not a safe place to be.

[549] Meaning, on occasion, I will have some sort of health box.

[550] thing situation that's a little sweet yep and and I'm like no by the way I don't have 40 of them and it doesn't leave me to affording more but enough of those stupid protein cookies and whatever it's too gray and I'm aware of it yeah and there is action being taken that being said I have not had an ice cream a piece of cake a real cookie any of that for right now I'm on like 14 months oh that's fantastic and before that I did it for quite a while too I'm super sympathetic to people that have eating issues because it's one of the only things where you have to eat.

[551] Like, I don't have to drink alcohol.

[552] If I had to drink alcohol three times a day responsibly, I don't know how on earth I could do that.

[553] But you have to eat three times a day.

[554] And it is the thing you're powerless over.

[555] So I'm uniquely sympathetic to that.

[556] I need the humbleness.

[557] Yeah.

[558] I can't do this.

[559] Stay tuned for more armchair experts.

[560] if you dare we've all been there turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains debilitating body aches sudden fevers and strange rashes though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios it's usually nothing but for an unlucky few these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter whose body was found at home by his son except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[561] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[562] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[563] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[564] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[565] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[566] What's up, guys?

[567] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is, It's back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[568] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[569] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[570] And I don't mean just friends.

[571] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[572] The list goes on.

[573] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[574] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[575] So I used many different substances to control and regulate my emotions.

[576] Right.

[577] So when did you start using?

[578] food to control your when I was a little boy a little boy started early very yes no no really little like as young as I can remember and I didn't really get fat like I look at pictures in high school and I go you weren't fat but I felt fat yeah yeah what do they call that term when you body dysmorphia I had body dysmorphia and no doubt no doubt about it I was not fat Johnson at all right and I thought it was I go you were kind of adorable yes yeah and well we're so mean to ourselves aren't we okay so I'm going to jump to something here and then I'll come back to the sugar.

[579] The thing I want to jump to because you're saying mean to herself, the only thing that I know at 56 years old, the only thing that I know is if everybody were kind to themselves.

[580] If you're kind to yourself, it's hard to be mean to other people and make bad decisions.

[581] And it's the hardest thing in the world.

[582] I know this.

[583] And do you know, every day I get up, I look in the mirror and I smile at myself in the morning.

[584] Oh, you do?

[585] Which makes me laugh because I look ridiculous.

[586] I try and see.

[587] set a tone of being kind to myself but yet i'll say those things you're fucking idiot you oh yeah it just it because it's so easy to go the negative root yeah at what age do you connect the dots that oh i'm not just hungry i don't just enjoy sweets i'm trying to regulate myself it wasn't until my father died which was about five years ago okay and i stopped eating sugar and I realized that I had nothing to grab onto, to deal with the sadness that I felt of losing my father.

[588] And I started on Lexapro.

[589] And it helped me. Yeah.

[590] But then it made me clear to see, wow, I'm having trouble functioning as a human being without the sugar.

[591] Yeah.

[592] And so that's why I went like to the Lexa Pro and I felt that I'm no longer on that I'm on something else.

[593] But I know that when I'm shoving, sugar.

[594] And shoving is the right word.

[595] It's not delicately eating.

[596] When I am shoving Pop -Tarts raw because they don't have time to toast.

[597] Who has time?

[598] I'm not toasting them because I want to shove the feelings down immediately.

[599] When I am doing that, it is not about the Pop -Tarts, how they were created, what they're doing for me nutritionally.

[600] It's 100 % emotional and I'm not present.

[601] Yeah, you're going to distract yourself from whatever thing you're not enjoying.

[602] enjoying i've been sober this current run since the day my mom passed away which was last november and i just it's really weird because i didn't know she was going to die that day i had just seen her in chicago i'm flying home generally on the plane it was when virgin was still flying they had these Swedish fish from dean and deluca okay and i would get three packs of them because i'm in first and i bet you're your most charming self with the stewardess while you're asking for these, right?

[603] Charmed.

[604] You're using all your skills.

[605] Good night.

[606] I could have asked her for $20.

[607] When I drank, I was always like, at some point they're going to want to cut me off.

[608] So I got to be ahead of this.

[609] Okay, so I would do that, and I also would load up on treats at the airport to have in my little pocket in front of me with the thing.

[610] Well, I landed, okay, this particular flight.

[611] I hadn't asked for Swedish fish.

[612] When she asked me if I wanted any, I said no, and I hadn't touched the stuff.

[613] and I didn't pay attention to any of it because I was just deep in reflection, what have you, I was present.

[614] So that night at home, having been to Overeaters Anonymous, knowing what it takes to be sober, I thought, you know what?

[615] Tomorrow morning you're going to a meeting because you don't want this to stop.

[616] Right.

[617] So it stopped naturally, and then I went to the meeting and that afternoon of the meeting, my mom died.

[618] Oh, wow.

[619] It wasn't a decision my mom's dead.

[620] I'm going to honor.

[621] her by being sober.

[622] I got you.

[623] It had already started.

[624] A lot of adversity during that day.

[625] My mom was the last thing.

[626] And then that night, I had to go do a show, an hour.

[627] The day my mom died, the day I decided to go sober, all of this.

[628] But I thought to myself initially, how am I going to do an hour with what I'm feeling?

[629] Right.

[630] You know, and then my wife, who this was right before we separated.

[631] She was very worried that I was going to go on stage and just say something I'd regret.

[632] Right.

[633] You know?

[634] And I said, no, I'll be fine.

[635] This doesn't I'm saying she's a wonderful person.

[636] Yeah.

[637] But that also helped in me see that I've got a job to do, not only for myself in terms of being sober and being the best man I can be, but my job is to ease people's pain.

[638] Because there were people sitting in that audience who were dealing with things very similar to what I was dealing with.

[639] And it was my job for that hour to take them wherever I could take them.

[640] I have become even, I've always been very honest and very vulnerable on stage, but I'm at a whole new level and people are finding that very comforting and moving.

[641] Yeah.

[642] And I see it in their reactions.

[643] And it's been very exciting.

[644] And I'm going to keep going this direction.

[645] It's way more rewarding, isn't it, than making people laugh.

[646] I thought for me, the height of the experience on planned earth is making someone laugh as i started being a guest on podcast and being open about all my struggles and then when people would connect to me on that level i found that just infinitely more rewarding what i like to do is combine that with the laugh yeah yeah and that is just it's magical for me now oh a because i'm a little curious because i know that in s a and sLA you end up having to define what sobriety is going to be right so i think in sLA you have like a bottom line they call it.

[647] And so if you don't cross your bottom line, you pick, right?

[648] So it could be no call girls.

[649] Right.

[650] Or it could be monogamy, whatever the thing is.

[651] So in OA, do you define what sobriety is for you?

[652] Everyone has their own thing, yes.

[653] Mine is, I'd like to say sugar, but some of those health bars have sugar in them.

[654] Right.

[655] Sometimes I eat a bowl of cereal and there's sugar in it.

[656] Yeah.

[657] I try not to have sugar be one of the first five ingredients.

[658] But mine is, really, when you get to the black and white of it, no sweets, no desserts.

[659] No desserts.

[660] No discerals.

[661] No No adding sugar, obviously.

[662] I never really even did that.

[663] But no desserts.

[664] And the only thing I can say that I really miss is ice cream.

[665] Ice cream to me is so beyond the human condition.

[666] It's so magical that I would equate it with an orgasm.

[667] I would equate it with sex.

[668] It's just...

[669] Like it's greater than the sum of its parts.

[670] When you're looking at it, you think there's no way...

[671] No, ice cream is magic.

[672] And I only like vanilla.

[673] I mean, I like all flavors.

[674] But vanilla was my favorite, which, you know, it doesn't take much.

[675] Yeah.

[676] Okay.

[677] So now, you drop out of college.

[678] You move back to Chicago.

[679] Yes.

[680] Chicago is a fantastic place to be if you want to get into comedy.

[681] Yes, the best.

[682] And you did Second City.

[683] Yes, did stand -up at Second City.

[684] Well, you did stand -up at Second City.

[685] No, stand -up and Second City.

[686] And also Second City led me down the path of being an improvisational comedian.

[687] Yes.

[688] Because for the most of my last 10 years, I walk up on stage with nothing in my head.

[689] And then I do an hour.

[690] It blows my mind, you know, I'm just too afraid to try that.

[691] Well, you can't have fear inside you when you do it.

[692] That's for sure.

[693] You have to let it go.

[694] You could do it, but you have to get to real places, and you have to, whatever's going on in the room, you have to sort of go with.

[695] And do you start by interacting with people in the audience?

[696] The way I've been doing it is every time I go up on stage, I play a different song.

[697] So I might play, like, the other night, I went up to a song that I've used before, more than any other probably, but I'm always different.

[698] Ring of Fire by Johnny Cash.

[699] Oh, sure.

[700] And I started talking about what the song means to me, what the song means to me on that given night.

[701] And then that just starts a conversation.

[702] Boom, I'm off.

[703] Right.

[704] And, yeah, it requires a lot of confidence.

[705] But by the way, I have comedically, I'm 56 years old, I've been doing it since I'm 20.

[706] I have supreme confidence in what I do.

[707] Yeah.

[708] I go on stage.

[709] I'm Tom Brady.

[710] You're fucking comfortable.

[711] The only arrogance thing I ever say about myself.

[712] is, I'm not going to say I'm the funniest comedian, but I will say unequivocally amongst all of my peers, I am the most comfortable comedian on stage.

[713] Right.

[714] I'm number one on comfort.

[715] Which, by the way, is for me, 80 % of the experience of going to stand up is just my mirror neurons.

[716] If I can detect that they're nervous, I am now so nervous and I find it the most excruciating experience.

[717] It's painful.

[718] To me, it's, if they're funny, it's painful.

[719] I'd rather see a guy come up short on an 80s.

[720] 50 foot motorcycle jump.

[721] I mean, honestly, I have, that would be easier for me to experience.

[722] It's the only thing in my life I have supreme confidence in.

[723] Okay, so in Chicago, you end up being roommates with Conan O 'Brien, which I think is just for gossip's sake, fun.

[724] How old were you guys?

[725] We were somewhere in our 20s.

[726] You guys seemed like a terrible pair to be roommates.

[727] Well, Bob, Oden Kirk, who's one of my best friends, said to me one day, he goes, you got that extra room in your apartment.

[728] I go, yeah, he goes, can my friend Conan, and I burst out laughing.

[729] I go, the dude's name is Conan, really?

[730] The Barbarian?

[731] And then he moved in, and we really liked each other.

[732] But I was so happy with how funny he was that I would wake him up at all hours.

[733] And I had air conditioning in my room, and his room was like a sauna.

[734] But I would wake him up at like three in the morning and go, do that bit again, do that thing.

[735] I thought him incredibly funny and so smart and wonderful.

[736] Never pictured him as a talk show host, even though we, did a fake talk show in our living room well by his own admission and he was on here talking about it a very very tightly wound person if i can just say like you know simplistically you guys are almost polar opposites very much so yes yeah so what a unique well by the way though in our friendship he looked to me to sort of calm him right i believe he's probably drawn to your energy i may be yeah we have a wonderful friendship what you have in spades is that you appear to be very comfortable in your own skin, which is a unique thing that people are really drawn to, right?

[737] I am so comfortable my own skin until, let me say this.

[738] Comedic situations, yes.

[739] Walking down the street, yes.

[740] When I am in any sort of romantic thing.

[741] All your fears.

[742] Yes, yes.

[743] The minute it becomes unrequited, I become so insecure, not happy in my skin, and I do everything I can to make it worse.

[744] Right.

[745] And I've done that and I just got over that.

[746] You know, when I was younger and someone didn't like me, a girl didn't like me, I always had the attitude, my charm is going to get you.

[747] It's like if it's not now, it'll be six months from now.

[748] Right.

[749] So I would be 24 thinking that.

[750] You're like a slow -moving infection.

[751] Eventually it'll overcome the host.

[752] But see, now I'm a 56 -year -old man. I'm not used to being in any kind of relationship.

[753] And so for me to say, oh, I'll eventually get you, maybe in my 80s.

[754] You know what I mean?

[755] It's a lot different, man. You said 25 years you were married?

[756] Yes, 25 years.

[757] In these fantasies I whip up in my head of what it would be like with me on the dating scene.

[758] I also am aware of it would crash and burn.

[759] I forget all the part, let's just say generally speaking, 90 % of relationships are going to fall into one category of the other.

[760] Either you're going to like them too much or they're going to like you too much.

[761] Both fucking suck.

[762] I'm going to have to hurt this woman's feelings.

[763] Or she's going to destroy mine.

[764] The pain of being rejected is so deep and scarring, whereas the other one, when you say, I'm not getting to there is so hard doing it and you feel bad, but.

[765] You know what?

[766] You just nailed it.

[767] The one is way worse on the front end.

[768] The other one's way worse on the back.

[769] Without a doubt.

[770] Because once you do have that conversation, you feel like an asshole for three days.

[771] Eventually, you do feel like the weight has been lifted.

[772] The weight has been lifted.

[773] I was honest.

[774] And basically the way it is just put on you when you're broken up.

[775] So, yeah.

[776] Well, I'm going to tell you a couple of things people say to me. Number one, Susie Esmond, who plays my wife on Curb Your Enthusiasm.

[777] Brilliantly, by the way.

[778] She said, she's wonderful.

[779] Yeah.

[780] She said, you need to sow your oats.

[781] You never sowed your oats.

[782] Let me tell you what's boring.

[783] Sowing your oats is so ungratifying for a man. I am all about a relationship and I'm about the emotional aspect of men and women.

[784] Physically, yeah, we need to do things.

[785] things.

[786] But I'd rather take a nap.

[787] Okay.

[788] I'd rather watch a movie.

[789] Maybe even, not go for a walk.

[790] I'd rather have sex than go for a walk.

[791] But, but I'd rather go swimming.

[792] I'd rather take a nap.

[793] This sounds very attractive for a lot of women, I would think.

[794] What's that?

[795] Very low expectations of banging a lot.

[796] That's a great selling point.

[797] But yeah, but I'm selling someone I'm not interested in.

[798] So I'm all about the emotional thing.

[799] And what I just got over was more of the emotional thing.

[800] Right.

[801] Not more.

[802] It was the emotional thing.

[803] Right.

[804] And I imagine you're still close with your ex -wife?

[805] That changes from day to day, but I find her to be a wonderful, great person.

[806] I have to imagine you'll always be...

[807] Debt to her for raising your kids with you.

[808] I am a debt to her period.

[809] And whatever went wrong in her marriage, I'll just say it's my fault.

[810] I'm not even...

[811] I didn't...

[812] Well, but in all...

[813] Other woman or anything like that.

[814] But I'm just saying, this woman is remarkable, but it is much better to be married than not married.

[815] What is delightful for me is being alone.

[816] I love walking from one side of the house to the other and no one's telling me to do something no one's disappointed in me yeah it's pretty delightful on the flip side being single i couldn't hate more you hate it hate it it's almost like the dream scenario is to be married for 11 months of the year like if i knew if i disagree my new thing and i'm talking about this in my stand -up is to get married and buy the house next to me for my wife yeah which people do i've heard of people who have that scenario when tom arnold and rosanne were married.

[817] They own two beautiful homes right next to to each other.

[818] And that worked fantastic.

[819] And look, yes.

[820] Don't fucking point that out.

[821] Yeah.

[822] You're doing stand -up in Chicago.

[823] You're also doing improv and you're doing sketch comedy.

[824] And then at some point, you get hired by both Dennis Leary and John Stewart to work on their set with them.

[825] Yes.

[826] Do I understand that correctly?

[827] Yes.

[828] And what makes you good at that?

[829] Well, amongst my peers, I have the eye.

[830] Not the eye that I punch up stuff, but I have the eye of what makes somebody a better comedian, how to get to the core of what makes you great.

[831] See, that John and Dennis are different from the standpoint of John couldn't fill the room at the time with what was special about him, whereas Dennis could fill the back row without even trying.

[832] Yes.

[833] But John said so many things that were deeper than what Dennis was saying.

[834] So with Dennis, I had to help really.

[835] mold the material more and less on performance.

[836] And John, I had to help him more with performance and less on material.

[837] They both rose because they're both brilliant, brilliant comedians.

[838] Yeah.

[839] So does Larry David come into the mix because he's aware you're good at this?

[840] How does that?

[841] Okay.

[842] So Larry David comes into the mix because I had done this with John and Dennis and Larry and I were acquaintances.

[843] I'm in a suite of offices at Castle Rock.

[844] I'm writing with a guy named Allen's Wye Bell, great comedy writer, a show for CBS that's going to be a companion show for, it's either my show or a show called King of Queens, that are going to be the companion show for Everybody Loves Raymond.

[845] Okay.

[846] Mine was the Jeff Garland program.

[847] And obviously they chose that.

[848] But also, while I was doing that, I went to lunch with Larry, and he was asking me questions about stand -up.

[849] He sort of was sitting on, HBO wants to work with me, what do I?

[850] do next.

[851] Right.

[852] And I said, if you ever want to do a special, which HBO was interested in doing something with him, I have the perfect idea.

[853] You would play yourself building a special.

[854] And then the out is, you don't have to even do the special.

[855] That became Curb Your Enthusiasm.

[856] And he insisted that I am a producer.

[857] That was probably generous of him at that time, right?

[858] Very much so.

[859] Yeah.

[860] And then he insisted that I play as manager.

[861] Yes.

[862] I watched from Dave, one of that show.

[863] I mean, I really thought, because I didn't know you well yet then, and I was younger, and I was like, this relationship must be real.

[864] Like, like, I would have thought there was 15 years of history.

[865] I would have thought that you had some true capacity in his life that you were playing.

[866] Well, it was ironic and weird and something you can't explain.

[867] So we knew each other.

[868] Got along great.

[869] We're going on this path.

[870] We start having our casting sessions.

[871] which we're improvising with people to be his wife, be different characters.

[872] And as I'm in these different scenarios with him, he and I, we even talked about it in the auditions.

[873] People would leave.

[874] We go, have we been working together for 20 years?

[875] Because that's what it feels like.

[876] This is weird.

[877] Yeah.

[878] It was just like, what the hell's going on?

[879] Also, you have an incredibly high bar to match because he and Jerry clearly have some kind of fucking extra.

[880] Extra.

[881] This is creative soulmates.

[882] Like, like, I consider myself having gotten very lucky.

[883] I'm so grateful.

[884] And the, the format of that show, again, it's kind of, I wonder how much of it's lore now because, like, friends of mine from the groundlings would get on the show.

[885] Caitlin, Caitlin, plays a Cheryl's sister.

[886] She's coming back this season.

[887] Oh, she is.

[888] Yeah.

[889] Yeah.

[890] Yeah.

[891] And she was one of my best friends.

[892] And, you know, all of us in the improv world were just immediately like, oh, my God, that show is so how does it work?

[893] Right.

[894] And what I understand is that there's a beat sheet to the scene.

[895] Is that how it?

[896] No. It's not.

[897] There is no beat sheet.

[898] Okay.

[899] There is literally a seven page outline with the story written in each of them's like, you know, a couple paragraph or two each scene, like an actually word.

[900] An essay.

[901] Yeah.

[902] Like it's like seven pages long.

[903] Okay.

[904] And then we just go from scene to scene and we make adjustments as we improvise.

[905] But the story is all there.

[906] There is rarely, if ever, a line of dialogue, you know, so we can have the freedom to improvise.

[907] Yeah.

[908] But it's not a beat sheet.

[909] It's a story.

[910] And we know what has to happen in each scene.

[911] And we don't show the actors any of this.

[912] Even when they audition, they get a slip of paper of what they're going to do.

[913] And it's not really the truth.

[914] Okay.

[915] So over the years on curb, you could have not possibly expected that you would be doing this for 19 years.

[916] Did not expect it.

[917] I did not expect the show to become an iconic, legendary show.

[918] We did what we thought was funny.

[919] It wasn't like we were trying for anything.

[920] Right.

[921] like we were hoping to be picked up.

[922] We just did what we thought was funny.

[923] Yeah.

[924] We really became a hit when it comes down to it right after the Sopranos became a hit.

[925] We were put in the 10 p .m. after the 9 p .m. Sopranos for two or three seasons.

[926] And it was at that point that we became gigantic.

[927] Right.

[928] Season one, HBO called us, their little experimental show.

[929] But after, I think it was season three, we followed the Sopranos.

[930] it just changed everything.

[931] Now, Larry's writing process, are you privy to that over the years?

[932] Do you know how that...

[933] I know how he does it, and I have been privy to it, but I am not part of it.

[934] You know, it's so funny, people come up to me on the street and tell me they've got a great idea for curb.

[935] Right.

[936] And I explained to them, no exaggeration, that I have been approached over a thousand times easy, and not one has ever been funny.

[937] And they say, well, this one is.

[938] And it's not, and I go, I hope you're satisfied.

[939] Uh -huh.

[940] One time someone said something to me. It was a comedian, David Feldman, who thought of the idea with the numbers on the arm.

[941] It was the Holocaust chef.

[942] He thought of that, and I told Larry, and he said, can we use it?

[943] Yeah, yeah, you know, Larry wanted to make sure.

[944] But the point being is, myself, one of the people came up with the show, Larry's partner, I'm on the show, I'm one of the executive producers.

[945] I have never given him a suggestion in the entire history of our show.

[946] I have never said, you should do this, or what about this for an idea?

[947] Yet people are so arrogant, and they come up to me, and they tell me, and I explain, it's not happened.

[948] Right.

[949] I thought when I was younger, when I was 20, 21, that I was going to be a star in a few minutes.

[950] Yes.

[951] Then I thought, okay, 27.

[952] And then in my early 30s, when I stopped giving a shit about when and how I became successful, I became successful almost immediately.

[953] Yeah.

[954] When I only worried about being good, and that's still all I worry about.

[955] Now, I don't want to be crude, but I'm going to be a little bit crude.

[956] Has Herb given you a financial safety net by which you can truly just do things that you are on fire to do?

[957] Doing Goldberg's and Kerb has put me in a nice financial position.

[958] Unfortunately, Curb was on HBO.

[959] Therefore, I don't get the...

[960] There's no syndication.

[961] But now especially because there's HBO Go and HBO now.

[962] And so, no, it hasn't made me independently rich, but I am quite well off from Kerb.

[963] And I continue to get paid a very nice salary for doing it.

[964] Nobody out there should remotely worry about me. And you don't have to write a dog movie if you don't want to.

[965] And kind of track where I'm at career -wise, when the agent starts going, this producer wants to meet you to write this dog movie.

[966] But guess what?

[967] If the dog movie was full of joy for me and I'd feel creative and I was being paid a good salary, I'd be thrilled to do it.

[968] For me, I don't think too much about how cool it is or not.

[969] Yeah.

[970] I think in terms of how much joy and how much money.

[971] Sure.

[972] Because they're both important.

[973] But I will not do something that doesn't bring me joy.

[974] I won't do something just for money.

[975] Right.

[976] Got to have joy.

[977] Yeah.

[978] Now, Goldbergs, you guys are what, season six?

[979] Season six, yep.

[980] Okay, so Wendy is a very, very good friend of mine.

[981] I'm in awe of her.

[982] Isn't she so fantastic?

[983] I don't even know what's.

[984] She's one of the most unique comedians I've ever met.

[985] We were in the growlings together, we were in the Sunday company together, and we wrote a lot of stuff together.

[986] We had a very mutually bizarre point of view comedically.

[987] And she does not fit into the archetype of someone that pursues comedy in the most refreshing, unique way.

[988] Her Long Beach, the way she was raised, the way she lives is of a very person that you could see owning a shop that sells clothes for cats.

[989] A hundred percent.

[990] She loves cats.

[991] She's so refreshingly unique.

[992] No, she's completely unique in that way.

[993] Yes, very much so.

[994] And she seems to have this really healthy, like she's not desiring to be on the cover of a magazine in a vain way.

[995] Not that, but she does desire to do good work.

[996] Oh, yeah.

[997] Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[998] I admire her, and I hope that she and I can work together on other things and our relationship on the Goldbergs in terms of appearance doesn't spoil it.

[999] Right.

[1000] Because people see us as a certain way.

[1001] But it's kind of amazing that I have two different kinds of audiences.

[1002] Yes.

[1003] Actually, three, because I've done a lot of kids movies.

[1004] Well, right, you've been a bunch of cartoons, right?

[1005] And also it's in Daddy Daycare.

[1006] So I have a lot of children's stuff.

[1007] I have a lot of family stuff, and I have a lot of edgy stuff.

[1008] Right.

[1009] You know, so it's all.

[1010] It's kind of the dream.

[1011] I'm living the dream, man. Yeah.

[1012] I'm good.

[1013] If I only could have someone love me and me love them.

[1014] Yeah.

[1015] Fourth, my life would be complete.

[1016] I have my children's love.

[1017] Yeah.

[1018] And I love them, but I want romantic love.

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] Well, now, that's absolutely going to happen because you're a very, no, it's 100%.

[1021] Okay.

[1022] Well, my mom's recently widowed, and she's a real catch.

[1023] So if you want me to set that up, please.

[1024] She is 67.

[1025] Oh, right?

[1026] That's quite a bit older than you.

[1027] 11 years?

[1028] Yeah.

[1029] Very cool.

[1030] She sounds rocking cool.

[1031] And I certainly respect her son and the job she did.

[1032] She's my favorite human being.

[1033] But I do agree with you.

[1034] Got to watch out.

[1035] But I kind of feel now.

[1036] I am not active in going after anyone and I'm not going to.

[1037] Yeah.

[1038] I'm just going to enjoy being alone and we'll see what happens.

[1039] But, you know, obviously I did not have nearly the experience you did.

[1040] But I was with someone for nine years and we broke up before Kristen and I. And I definitely was very pessimistic for over two years where I thought, oh, I guess that thing where you meet someone and you fall head over heels in love and your soulmates is something that maybe just happens in youth.

[1041] I really started thinking, oh, that probably is not going to happen again.

[1042] I got to have a different expectation.

[1043] And I got very, very pessimistic for quite a long time.

[1044] And then I met Kristen and all of a sudden I was like, oh, by God, it happened again.

[1045] And I just want you to know, like, it'll 100 % happen again.

[1046] There's a difference between us, though.

[1047] You're saying happen again.

[1048] I don't want to be so sad, but I want to say this to you, and this is no exaggeration.

[1049] I've never had that.

[1050] You've never had that?

[1051] Never, no. Why do you think not?

[1052] I don't know.

[1053] I don't know.

[1054] It's never happened to me. I've never had someone be crazy about me the way I was crazy about them.

[1055] But I think that it hasn't been my thing, man. But you know who's benefited from it?

[1056] Anyone who enjoys my work.

[1057] Because my work is better because of it.

[1058] Okay.

[1059] We both love TM.

[1060] Yes.

[1061] Transcendental meditation.

[1062] Transcendental meditation.

[1063] I started it around the same time Five years ago?

[1064] My dad said, yeah, about five, six years ago, yeah.

[1065] What happened was two people told me about it.

[1066] One was Jerry Seinfeld and one was a friend of mine's mom who suggested it.

[1067] And then I did some research on it.

[1068] The person who really taught me, her name was Nancy Cook Herrera.

[1069] And Nancy Cook Herrera learned from the Maharishi.

[1070] She was on the trip with the Beatles.

[1071] Okay.

[1072] And she was magical.

[1073] She just died.

[1074] She was in her 90s.

[1075] And she also said that the Maharishi said you should charge.

[1076] but a nominal amount, because when people pay for something, they hold it in higher value.

[1077] All I can say is it has brought me great joy and great peace, and I would recommend it to anyone, and I would say it's worth investigating.

[1078] Yeah.

[1079] Seinfeld's counterintuitive that he does it, because when you hear him on Stern, he seems to have this like knee jerk, who needs therapy.

[1080] You know, I know it's a bit of a bit, but I just was shocked to hear that.

[1081] He confuses me. I look up to him.

[1082] Me too.

[1083] To him a great deal.

[1084] He is one of the smartest, most together people I've ever met, but he's also a tough guy because of the sort of, this is the way it is.

[1085] The rigidity.

[1086] The rigidity.

[1087] Yeah.

[1088] He's very rigid, including as an artist.

[1089] Yeah, yeah.

[1090] By the way, Jerry said to me, this is four years ago, five years ago, hey, will you watch me tonight?

[1091] Like, I was at his show.

[1092] I was hanging out backstage.

[1093] He goes, will you go out and watch me?

[1094] I don't ever get that opportunity.

[1095] Take notes.

[1096] Tell me what you think.

[1097] and afterwards we talked for almost three hours about comedy the differences between us what i thought whatever he gave me one piece of advice that i've always been intrigued by in terms of me uniquely now i'm generally a guy who dresses very comfortable um i know on curb i wear a suit and he said to me goes there's something so funny about you in a suit because you kind of look like you're trapped And so it gives off a vibe that's very funny.

[1098] And when I've experimented with that, and I find it would be totally right.

[1099] Yeah, that's a great observation.

[1100] I'm actually, I wear a suit quite often.

[1101] His voice rings really big in my head.

[1102] Well, Jeff, you lead with a gigantic heart, and anyone who's ever met you would see that.

[1103] So I'm glad you're here.

[1104] Well, I adore you, and I'll see you again soon.

[1105] You will.

[1106] Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

[1107] If you dare.

[1108] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1109] Welcome to the fact check.

[1110] Our resident Pussus Pachydermis.

[1111] And penis Pekidermis.

[1112] And Pianus Pach and Mis Derminus.

[1113] Dan Shepard.

[1114] Should Rob be perinium pachydermis?

[1115] You have a very thick perineum, Rob?

[1116] Super thick.

[1117] Okay, great.

[1118] Well, we all have our titles now.

[1119] Jeff Garland.

[1120] Not to be confused with Garland, which you decorate a cream.

[1121] Christmas tree with.

[1122] Correct.

[1123] Is that the same?

[1124] Nope.

[1125] That's G -A -R -L -A -N -D.

[1126] That's Garland.

[1127] Oh, good thing you're fact -checking.

[1128] I thought his last name was the decorative tree.

[1129] No, Garland, G -A -R -L -I -N.

[1130] Okay, great.

[1131] And Garland is...

[1132] Garland, huh?

[1133] Yeah.

[1134] You put the garland on the tree.

[1135] You do.

[1136] But the Jeff Garland.

[1137] It wrapped around.

[1138] Emboss?

[1139] No. Embossing is...

[1140] Stamping a business card?

[1141] It's a type of stamping, yeah.

[1142] raised.

[1143] I have an emboss machine.

[1144] You do?

[1145] Mm -hmm.

[1146] What do you emboss?

[1147] I used to make some cards and stuff and I would emboss.

[1148] You would?

[1149] Yeah.

[1150] It's really fun, actually.

[1151] Embossing, you take a stamp and you stamp on a basically clear pad, gluey clear pad.

[1152] Then you put it on your paper or your card, whatever you're making.

[1153] Mm -hmm.

[1154] And then you cover that with glitter.

[1155] Oh.

[1156] This like type of glitter.

[1157] embossing powder.

[1158] And then...

[1159] Ooh, embossing powder.

[1160] Yeah.

[1161] Then you pour the excess off.

[1162] Then you use your machine.

[1163] You plug it in.

[1164] Turn it on.

[1165] It's like a hairdryer.

[1166] It makes it.

[1167] Hardening treatment.

[1168] Yeah, it hardens.

[1169] After you put the embossing powder on.

[1170] It's raised.

[1171] When you, after you put the powder on, do you ever give it a...

[1172] Oh.

[1173] Oh, you mean, after you dump it?

[1174] Yeah.

[1175] Yeah.

[1176] To make sure it's clean, of course.

[1177] That's the part I'd like the most.

[1178] Yeah.

[1179] That's fun.

[1180] I got that.

[1181] it paper source.

[1182] And how long would it...

[1183] Say you wanted to write happy birthday to somebody.

[1184] What does that take?

[1185] Couple hours?

[1186] No. I don't know.

[1187] No, it would take...

[1188] Depends on how much of a perfectionist you are, I suppose, but...

[1189] You're pretty high.

[1190] I've received many gifts wrapped by you, so...

[1191] That's why I got into it, because it was really helping my wrapping card game.

[1192] Like delivery of presents.

[1193] Do you have any fantasies about in your retirement opening up a wrapping store?

[1194] Well, no, I just really want a wrapping paper room in my house.

[1195] Okay, you don't want to have a shop that wraps things.

[1196] I don't think I need to do that, no. I don't want to turn it into work.

[1197] That's smart.

[1198] Yeah, but I do want to have a room full of beautiful wrapping paper and all my accoutrema.

[1199] But you're not interested in wrapping.

[1200] No, I find it laborious.

[1201] I pride myself that I can do it.

[1202] I don't think many boys can wrap.

[1203] They haven't learned to fold the corners and whatnot.

[1204] My mother insisted we knew how to do that.

[1205] It's useful around certain holidays, Christmas.

[1206] Christmas mainly.

[1207] And birthdays.

[1208] Birthdays, yeah.

[1209] You don't like giving gifts.

[1210] I love giving gifts.

[1211] I'm so lazy about getting the gifts, figuring out where the thing is, driving to it.

[1212] Yeah, the logistics of it are overwhelming to me. But when I do give someone a gift, I love to give someone a gift.

[1213] It's very fun to give someone a gift.

[1214] You know they really want it.

[1215] It's my favorite thing.

[1216] Yeah.

[1217] Like, I've given you a few gifts, and it was very fun to do.

[1218] that yeah you've given me great gifts yeah gift of life sure first and foremost saved your life so gross to say you saved someone's life oh my god yeah I mean in some cases it's obviously literal like they rescued a drowning swimmer sure but even that person I don't want them to say it like that like saved your life ew especially to the person it's awful hey John what are you doing jammer and we're going to go grab some burgers today you want to roll out or you're busy cool so i saved your life remember i saved so i guess i'll see you over at uh the burger place uh yeah no humility humility is bow humility is very important no real humility is hard to achieve i think you more just govern what you're saying out loud you're still thinking all the thoughts right and you just you know better than to say self -aggrandizing things Don't they cross your mind regardless?

[1219] Depend.

[1220] I don't think if I save somebody from drowning.

[1221] You wouldn't say it?

[1222] But wouldn't you hope that it always came up when you were around?

[1223] No. That time Monica saved.

[1224] Oh, my God.

[1225] That's where we are different.

[1226] Really?

[1227] You wouldn't want to be celebrated?

[1228] I do like being celebrated, but for very specific things.

[1229] Your rapping jobs.

[1230] Yeah, mainly my rapping jobs.

[1231] You're cheerleading.

[1232] I like being celebrated for working really hard.

[1233] Uh -huh.

[1234] And that's pretty much it.

[1235] All things that confirm your identity, probably.

[1236] Yeah, like, I'm not someone who saves somebody.

[1237] So if I did that on accident, really, I would be like, I can't believe that happened.

[1238] I'm glad that I was able to help, but also, whoa.

[1239] This makes a ton of sense for you and I, because I think people like me because I'll rescue them.

[1240] Even though that's not true, I do think that.

[1241] So if I did, in fact, rescue somebody, I'd be like, oh, just confirmed what I think is good about me?

[1242] But then why do you need other people to be talking about it?

[1243] If you, then that's fine.

[1244] Because it's recognition that the identity you think you have is the same that other people do have of you.

[1245] Yeah.

[1246] You know?

[1247] It's like confirmation that you're presenting self is the same as your internal self, which can help you feel less fraudulent.

[1248] You know, if you're like, I'm this great rescuer.

[1249] And then everyone around the campfire is like, well, tell you, if I was drowning, the last person I'd want to walk by would be Dax.

[1250] You're like, ooh, God, they have the opposite.

[1251] Yeah, that's a hard realization, yeah.

[1252] Like, do you like it when I point out what a hard worker you are to other people in public?

[1253] Never happened.

[1254] Yeah.

[1255] Yeah.

[1256] I do.

[1257] I do.

[1258] Yeah.

[1259] Yeah.

[1260] Me too.

[1261] Yes, I do like that.

[1262] I was thinking about this the other day because we were talking about friends, the TV show.

[1263] Television show.

[1264] Yes.

[1265] You were saying when it was on, you never watched it because you were too punk rock for it.

[1266] You thought you were a little too cool.

[1267] for it.

[1268] I thought it was the TV show version of a mall.

[1269] Yes.

[1270] And I said, oh my God, if it was said to a mall, I would like it even more.

[1271] Yes, yes, yes.

[1272] And then I was thinking about that little later.

[1273] This is going to now sound like a reverse humble brag based on all our conversations about insecurity, but I have no insecurity about being basic.

[1274] Right, right, because you always looked unique.

[1275] I guess that's why.

[1276] Yeah, your issue has never been.

[1277] Never been that you're blending in.

[1278] Right.

[1279] Some people feel like they're blending in and getting lost.

[1280] Yeah.

[1281] So they have a deep fear of being basic or uninteresting or all these things because they feel invisible, but you have always felt very visible.

[1282] Right.

[1283] Although your hair is not very visible, I'll argue.

[1284] I had somebody confirmed for me that that was bogus and that they could see my hair big time.

[1285] I can see your hair, but if your hair was pink, I'd see it more.

[1286] Oh my God.

[1287] Can you see it now?

[1288] I mean nominated Monica, yeah.

[1289] is fashioning her hair into a very large nest on top, a big knot.

[1290] Oh, my God.

[1291] You're starting to look.

[1292] Oh, my God.

[1293] Wow.

[1294] Now can you can.

[1295] Yes, I can.

[1296] You look much taller.

[1297] Oh, okay.

[1298] So I'm going to have to start using a bump it.

[1299] Bump it is a toy for your hair, basically, where it makes your hair high.

[1300] Oh.

[1301] Gives it a bump?

[1302] Yeah, we love bumps in our hair.

[1303] Yeah, so I'm going to start doing that.

[1304] If I had your hair, I would look like Yanni.

[1305] Is that the guy's name?

[1306] Yeah.

[1307] The musician?

[1308] Yes, with the violins or whatever.

[1309] I think violin.

[1310] Techno classical.

[1311] Aren't there like electric violins going on?

[1312] Oh, I think he did.

[1313] Some high tech classical.

[1314] Ooh, mixed messages.

[1315] I used to love an electric violin.

[1316] I do too.

[1317] I have a favorite electric violinist.

[1318] Who?

[1319] John Luke Ponte.

[1320] Oh my God.

[1321] I don't know who that is.

[1322] Oh, my God, Monica.

[1323] He has a song called Elephants in Love that gets me to a 10.

[1324] Really?

[1325] And it's an electrical violin.

[1326] It's very adult contemporary jazz, I want to warn you.

[1327] It's probably not a genre that you're...

[1328] That's not what I was expecting.

[1329] What did you think it was going to be like rock and roll?

[1330] No. Yanni?

[1331] Like...

[1332] Enya?

[1333] You're getting a little warmer.

[1334] I can't find the exact words I'm looking for.

[1335] Maybe like the lumineers, but with electric violin.

[1336] Yeah, this is straight up adult contemporary jazz.

[1337] New Age Jazz.

[1338] And I fucking love it.

[1339] Okay.

[1340] My father loved Jean -Lukpente.

[1341] Oh.

[1342] Yeah.

[1343] My father only listened to electric.

[1344] Violin?

[1345] Oh, my God.

[1346] I think how limited his source material would be.

[1347] No, no, he only listened to adult contemporary jazz, New Age jazz.

[1348] And so I slowly fell in love with lots of these.

[1349] Is that like a Kenny Loggins?

[1350] No, no, no, no. Exactly is that genre.

[1351] God, who's the guy and I went and saw him with May Whitman?

[1352] It doesn't matter.

[1353] We went to see him.

[1354] I convinced May to go because I think her dad liked him too.

[1355] Go to the Disney Music Hall.

[1356] It's him playing guitar.

[1357] And then the entire band is a wall about eight feet tall and 40 feet wide of every kind of instrument being played by a computer.

[1358] But it's a real instrument.

[1359] It's not a sample.

[1360] So it's a real bass drum being hit by a robot, a real snare, a real horn being blown by computer.

[1361] I don't know how much this wall cost or how he even invented it.

[1362] Well, I've also read you his critique of Kenny G. Kenny G's the most popular ever.

[1363] Okay, maybe that's what I meant when I said Kenny Loggins.

[1364] Yeah, so Kenny G. is the most popular ever.

[1365] Sure.

[1366] Jazz.

[1367] New Age jazz.

[1368] Yeah.

[1369] But the guy I'm trying to remember the name of wrote the scaling review of Kenny G's career.

[1370] That's one of the funniest things I've ever read in my life.

[1371] Oh, wow.

[1372] And mind you, I think, Kenny G's a very nice guy.

[1373] So I didn't take pleasure in that Kenny G took it on the chin.

[1374] Just the pedantic nature of this takedown.

[1375] It was so technical with musical vernacular.

[1376] It's one of the most amusing things I've ever read.

[1377] Do you think people were on dates there at that concert?

[1378] And it was like making them horny?

[1379] Well.

[1380] All the instrument.

[1381] Is it a horny type of music?

[1382] It's not a horny type of music.

[1383] It's more like the twilight of your romance, like just now relaxing.

[1384] We got all those dicey turbocharged adrenaline.

[1385] and spikes out of the way.

[1386] And now it's time for us to sit in lawn chairs, holding hands, drinking a little Vino Tito.

[1387] Oh, that's nice.

[1388] And just enjoying one another's presence.

[1389] Okay.

[1390] The Pat Muthini.

[1391] Pat Muthini.

[1392] Pat Muthini is one of the best jazz guitars in the world, but he's definitely new age jazz.

[1393] And please everyone read Pat Mithini's critique of Kenny G. It's unbelievable.

[1394] He says that in most of his albums, he's playing off -key.

[1395] The best part was he even acknowledges he takes a whole paragraph have to say, let me tell you why I'm doing this.

[1396] I wouldn't have even done this, but this motherfucker put out an album of like either Nat King Cole classics or some really great musicians standards.

[1397] Kenny G. did.

[1398] Yeah.

[1399] He's like, I draw the line there.

[1400] You're not entrusted to do these songs.

[1401] I mean, also.

[1402] I mean, I shouldn't celebrate it because it's hate and we like things that are positive.

[1403] I don't like that, actually.

[1404] If you read it, I think you'd really like it.

[1405] Well, maybe I'd find it amusing.

[1406] It's so comedic.

[1407] Yeah, but also like, leave them alone.

[1408] Why do you feel like you have to publicly take down a person's?

[1409] Well, again, his argument was I had no problem when you were just a popular saxophone player.

[1410] Good for everyone, good for you, good for the listening public.

[1411] But I've got to defend jazz.

[1412] You physically can't play the songs and now you're misrepresenting these great songs.

[1413] It'd be kind of like if a shitty filmmaker remade Citizen Kane.

[1414] Yeah.

[1415] Tarantino should probably stand up and go, guys, this is not Citizen Kane.

[1416] shouldn't because also that's on the people to recognize like okay this actually isn't all that good yeah like why do you have to stand up and be like the face of taking somebody down and peg i don't like he feels like he's preserving well if it was just to take him down a peg yes yes but if he thinks he's preserving the history of jazz but doesn't it's not doesn't feel like a higher calling i think that's like a nice thing to say to make yourself feel better about that sure but i don't think that's the point of what he's actually doing.

[1417] You think maybe underneath of it all with some deep -seated jealousy that Kenny G. Yes.

[1418] Of course.

[1419] No, I got to disclose this because it's important.

[1420] I've met Kenny G. He's a lovely guy.

[1421] Yeah.

[1422] He's a very lovely guy.

[1423] And he's a pilot and he landed a plane on a lake and he got out of his plane and the plane was called a beaver.

[1424] Oh.

[1425] That was the name of the plane.

[1426] Okay.

[1427] And he was so nice.

[1428] Great.

[1429] I just, it's unnecessary.

[1430] You're right.

[1431] You're right.

[1432] I strive to be better.

[1433] The world will, like, if you really feel like there is a person making a huge mockery of this thing I've invested my whole life in, I can understand the feeling.

[1434] What I can't understand is I'm taking it to another level and publicly admonishing him.

[1435] You're right.

[1436] Really, when I hear that story, all I want is for Kenny G to keep doing well and for this person to die.

[1437] Okay.

[1438] Wait.

[1439] No, no, no, no, no. That's the ultimate and negative.

[1440] Monica, you just, you just died from your own medicine.

[1441] I'm kidding.

[1442] I don't.

[1443] But it does make me want Kenny G. to keep thriving.

[1444] Yeah.

[1445] I think he's doing great.

[1446] Okay.

[1447] Yeah.

[1448] Okay.

[1449] So some facts.

[1450] Yeah.

[1451] Hit me. So he said Jewish people name their children after someone who is deceased.

[1452] And I checked with my friend Lizzie, my resident.

[1453] In -house.

[1454] In -house expert on Judaism.

[1455] Yes.

[1456] And she sent me. a good article.

[1457] So here's a bunch of stuff about Jewish naming.

[1458] So many people give a Jewish and English name.

[1459] You might have heard that Jews do not name their babies for living people.

[1460] While this is true in most communities of Ashkenazi Jews, the opposite is the case among Sephardic.

[1461] That sounds right.

[1462] I've heard Sephardic Jews for sure.

[1463] That's weird.

[1464] It sounds a fart.

[1465] Yeah.

[1466] Yeah.

[1467] Of course.

[1468] Should we check?

[1469] Hold on.

[1470] Let's just listen.

[1471] Yeah.

[1472] Measel Toff.

[1473] How to say.

[1474] Okay.

[1475] Safarda.

[1476] Sephardic.

[1477] Sephardic.

[1478] That's what I said.

[1479] I know.

[1480] Safar Dick.

[1481] If you say it fast, it sounds like there's a teen instead of a D. Sephardic.

[1482] But then it's Dick.

[1483] Oh, you're right.

[1484] Oh, wow.

[1485] The opposite is the case among Sephardic Jews, Jews of Iberian or Middle Eastern origin, who often choose to name children after living relatives.

[1486] In fact, many Sephardic grandparents look forward to being honored with grandchildren who bear their own names or they, or they are still alive to see it.

[1487] I could see that being a big fight amongst the living grandparents.

[1488] Yeah, for sure.

[1489] It's smart to name after the dead because they can't fight about it.

[1490] That's right.

[1491] I'm trying to think if I would like it if the girl's name, if they had a son and named the kid Dax.

[1492] I don't think I would necessarily care.

[1493] I'd like to see a girl named Dax, but not a boy in my honor.

[1494] I think that's a weird custom for me. Really?

[1495] Why?

[1496] Because it seems narcissistic.

[1497] Like when people do the second and the third, it's like they just want themselves.

[1498] You know what I'm saying?

[1499] It's like, by the way, I get it.

[1500] We are all parents are guilty of it.

[1501] It's like you want your kid to look like you.

[1502] That's just the beginning of your self -centeredness and your narcissism is people always say that Lincoln looks just like Kristen.

[1503] No one's ever saying that either of them look like me. Well, I think Lincoln looks like you.

[1504] I've said it a lot.

[1505] That's why I like you so much.

[1506] You're the only person that says it.

[1507] That's why our friendship is based on that.

[1508] Sure.

[1509] But you do weird.

[1510] I don't know.

[1511] why it's so stupid but you want your kids to look like you by the way i don't want my kids to look like me because i don't like how i look but it's all complicated so of course then you take a step further i want them to have my same name yeah doesn't it seem a little egocentric yeah you desire it but you police yourself i can see that yeah i would and also like i cannot relate like i would never want to name my kid monica but if my kid named their kid monica yeah that i that i would like it feels very sweet of them.

[1512] It does.

[1513] It feels sweet and it feels like this is a person in my life that was important.

[1514] I'm probably dead.

[1515] So yeah, it was important.

[1516] And so I want to honor her dead body by naming my child after her.

[1517] Yes.

[1518] Anyway, I think that's nice.

[1519] I do too.

[1520] Among both Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews, there's accustomed to name a child after someone usually a family member who's died.

[1521] The usual explanation for this practice is that the parents hope that in receiving the name of an admired family member, the child will emulate in life the virtues of the deceased namesake.

[1522] To a certain extent, too, it is believed that the soul of the loved one lives on in the child who now bears his name.

[1523] Some parents choose a name that has the same meaning or similar meaning as the name of the relative that they're naming.

[1524] Some parents choose a name that sounds like the name of the relative they're naming after.

[1525] Some people try to find a name with a whole consonant cluster that is chronically similar, like Amalia for Emily.

[1526] And some just choose a name that starts with the same letter.

[1527] Like Ramaca.

[1528] Mm -hmm.

[1529] Exactly.

[1530] Ramika, Radman.

[1531] It's cool.

[1532] It's very cool.

[1533] The Star Trek pendant.

[1534] Couldn't remember the name of that.

[1535] I think he's talking about the Starfleet Delta.

[1536] Oh, that makes sense.

[1537] Starfleet Delta or Arrowhead.

[1538] Okay, this is interesting.

[1539] Get ready.

[1540] I'm ready.

[1541] Is shame connected to Kansas?

[1542] Cancer.

[1543] Okay.

[1544] This is a little long.

[1545] Okay.

[1546] But it's worth it.

[1547] This is from the National Foundation of Cancer Research.

[1548] Very trusted brand.

[1549] Right.

[1550] Okay.

[1551] Right.

[1552] It's so long that one of the three of us will have cancer by the time it's over.

[1553] Despite our societal belief that shame is a strong motivator for improved behavior and habits, researchers have discovered that the opposite is true.

[1554] Shame has been linked.

[1555] with withdrawal inactivity and increased intake of sugars and fats.

[1556] Therefore, it is possible that feelings of shame regarding a cancer.

[1557] So this is once you've been diagnosed.

[1558] So therefore it is possible that feelings of shame regarding a cancer diagnosis could make it more difficult for patients to adhere to positive lifestyle changes as a component of treatment.

[1559] More importantly, research indicates that shame is a major trigger of HPA axis, hypothelamic pituitary adrenal axis.

[1560] Our body's central stress response system.

[1561] Mm -hmm.

[1562] Igniting a physiological stress response resulting in a cascade of biochemical changes.

[1563] These biochemical changes have been linked to increased inflammation and decreased immunity.

[1564] More specifically, shame and negative emotions have been both linked to higher levels of pro -inflammatory cytokine called interleukin, 6.

[1565] That's ILC.

[1566] Since IL -6 is highly correlated with cancer progression, it is probable that feelings of shame can physiologically contribute to advancement of the disease.

[1567] Whoa.

[1568] Luckily, research in the last decade spearheaded by the University of Texas's Dr. Kristen Neff on self -compassion has demonstrated a promising solution.

[1569] Her research has identified self -compassion as the antithesis of shame, both psychologically and physiologically, by implementing the three main components of self -compassion, including self -kindness, normalizing an experience and improving mindfulness, studies demonstrate and increase an intrinsic motivation to improve self -care.

[1570] I could be better at this.

[1571] Yeah, we all could.

[1572] Physiologically, research on self -compassion has also been shown to buffer the adverse biochemical changes that occur as a result of HPA activation.

[1573] But more surprisingly, self -compassion is correlated with lower levels of IL -6.

[1574] By understanding the link between shame, negative emotions, and physiological changes in the body, we can not only develop respected cancer treatments that prioritize self -compassion and positive mental health, but we can also begin to view self -compassion as an important component of cancer prevention.

[1575] Worth a pound.

[1576] Yeah.

[1577] You did such a good job reading that out loud.

[1578] Thank you.

[1579] The way you said Texas is, I was like, I would have fucked that up.

[1580] Also, I'll -6 sounds like I'll say.

[1581] I would be saying I'll sick.

[1582] Like this problem originates in Isle 6 next to the mayonnaise and the condiments.

[1583] So there's a lot going on in that.

[1584] Yeah.

[1585] I think you should have like an ASMR sexual podcast where you just read technical stuff.

[1586] Oh, you liked that.

[1587] Well, remember I had this thought when you were talking about something being hard and whatever?

[1588] Do you remember this?

[1589] Vague, vague.

[1590] The, like, bull thing?

[1591] Yes, you're talking about making ball bearings.

[1592] Oh, right.

[1593] Yes.

[1594] And I was like, I feel like this could be a kink for people.

[1595] It's so technical.

[1596] I'm happy to fill that niche.

[1597] That would be awesome.

[1598] You know, that reminds me, like, when I was in elementary school, this is so odd.

[1599] Elementary and, like, middle school.

[1600] I really liked when teachers were describing things and they used colors.

[1601] Like, everyone put their essay in the blue folder and then get out a green piece of paper and a red colored pencil and draw.

[1602] a Christmas tree.

[1603] There's something about the way they would say the colors.

[1604] I really liked it.

[1605] Like in a horny way?

[1606] I don't know if it was a horny way.

[1607] How about in an erotic way, the way Esther Perel uses the word erotic?

[1608] Something got me excited.

[1609] Popped.

[1610] Something popped.

[1611] Oh, wow.

[1612] My hymen.

[1613] Wow.

[1614] Bree had this amazing kink where she loved being explained things in retail stores.

[1615] Right.

[1616] Like about the.

[1617] coat, why it was a good coat.

[1618] Yeah, yeah.

[1619] She would get euphoric from that.

[1620] It was one of my favorite things about her.

[1621] She would just, like, go to a mall and have things explained to her.

[1622] And she'd be in a state of euphoria.

[1623] Yes.

[1624] Yeah, I was like, I was kind of jealous of that.

[1625] I wonder what it is about our brains.

[1626] Like, what is the thing happening when she's saying a blue folder?

[1627] Like, when I say it, I don't feel it.

[1628] Right.

[1629] There's something about specifically it being the teacher.

[1630] Well, you have a teacher.

[1631] thing.

[1632] Yeah, that's its own thing.

[1633] Yeah.

[1634] But I don't think that's connected to the color.

[1635] Right.

[1636] That is.

[1637] That's its own thing.

[1638] Yeah.

[1639] So, and I remember I told my best friend at the time, my best friend, Gina.

[1640] I told her.

[1641] Oh, you did.

[1642] Because I was like, maybe this is normal.

[1643] Uh -huh.

[1644] Sure, sure.

[1645] And you basically said, like, do you love when Dr. Hicks says, pull your green sheet of paper out, stick under your red pencil?

[1646] Yeah.

[1647] Pencil.

[1648] And so I had a teacher that, as I've told you, said, penso.

[1649] photo in your tray.

[1650] Carly happened to have the same teacher six years later.

[1651] We always talk like her.

[1652] I'm not going to say her name on here.

[1653] Yeah.

[1654] But yeah, grab your pencil and your photo and put it in your tote tray.

[1655] I think it's so cute.

[1656] Anyways, so you think I should maybe invest in an erotic podcast?

[1657] I do.

[1658] Okay.

[1659] I really do.

[1660] Yeah.

[1661] Well, they say sex sells, right?

[1662] That's what they're saying.

[1663] Is that what they're saying?

[1664] They say sex sells.

[1665] Speaking of Bree, so you said that, you know, after you guys broke up, you felt like, oh, maybe that feeling you get when you fall in love with someone, maybe that's an element of youth as opposed to just something humans can feel.

[1666] Mm -hmm.

[1667] And then you said, but then you fell in love with Kristen and you realize that's not the case.

[1668] Yeah.

[1669] And then he said, he's never had that.

[1670] Yeah, that was interesting.

[1671] Yeah.

[1672] It was sad and invalidating for.

[1673] me a little bit because we've had these conversations and I have said like I don't know I don't know that I will ever have that and you seem to differ.

[1674] I do yeah.

[1675] Yeah.

[1676] But let me ask you something because what's what's really curious is when you hear him say it, is it easy for you to see what I see, which is he thinks that's a result of everyone around him.

[1677] He thinks that the person he could love never entered his life.

[1678] He doesn't see that it's him.

[1679] He's the reason he's not loved someone like that.

[1680] The real world is datic and constant.

[1681] So it's the person who never falls in love with someone.

[1682] It's not the other people around them's fault.

[1683] Well, it's no one's, I'm not saying it's anyone's fault.

[1684] Well, I am, I'm saying if you never fall in love with somebody, I'm saying it's your fault.

[1685] You haven't gone out met enough people.

[1686] You didn't look hard enough.

[1687] You didn't.

[1688] No one who's in love someone knocked on their door.

[1689] and was like, hey, I'm here for you to love.

[1690] It's like it took going out and getting like a job or an education or anything.

[1691] No, you don't agree with that?

[1692] I mean, I know plenty of people who didn't go searching and have found it.

[1693] But were they open in a way that other people aren't?

[1694] Maybe.

[1695] Were they more adventurous with giving it a shot or being open to experimenting?

[1696] I mean, you're talking about me right now.

[1697] It's not the same as him.

[1698] I'm talking about him too.

[1699] Well, I think he found someone he loved.

[1700] He married a person.

[1701] He was in a marriage for a long time.

[1702] But I think the feeling that you're talking about.

[1703] Uh -huh.

[1704] Falling in love.

[1705] I think the person would have some personal block that prevented them from falling in love.

[1706] So you think you can fall in love with anyone?

[1707] I do.

[1708] You know this theory of mine and you don't like it.

[1709] But yes, I think that if you ended up on a deserted island with any human being on planet Earth, if you chose to, you could learn to value them and respect them and be grateful for them in a way that is love.

[1710] But that's not the feeling you're talking about, where your head over heels and you can't stop thinking about a person.

[1711] And that's a different thing.

[1712] And that's the thing you were saying.

[1713] You were afraid that that wasn't just never going to happen again.

[1714] Yeah, the kind of thunderstruck feeling.

[1715] But let's put it this way.

[1716] People who are love addicts, they feel it all the time.

[1717] They feel it nonstop.

[1718] And it's because they're looking for that.

[1719] Well, they often feel it in a fantasy way.

[1720] Of course they do.

[1721] So it's not.

[1722] But remember Esther's saying that James Joyce or someone like that said, falling in love has to do with the imagination, not the other person.

[1723] Yeah, absolutely.

[1724] So you can look at it as a spectrum where you have a love addict on one side and they're falling in love every three days.

[1725] And then you have someone who can't find love or never experienced it.

[1726] And what I'm saying is that both people are the same human being.

[1727] they both have much different imaginations and much different everything.

[1728] Okay, but I think the love addict, often it's not real.

[1729] When the fantasy element goes away or when that becomes more of a reality, the whole thing falls apart.

[1730] Right, but I'm just going back to you saying that, yes, the person on the island that you could come to love and care for and be grateful for and miss deeply if you're ever separated is different from the feeling of falling in love.

[1731] and I'm agreeing with you.

[1732] Those are two different feelings.

[1733] And then I'm pointing out that the falling in love part is your imagination.

[1734] And the proof of that is you can see a love addict who falls in love every three days.

[1735] So it's a decision they've made that they're going to experience that all the time and they find a way to do that.

[1736] I don't think it's healthy, but that to me proves you can decide to fall in love on some level.

[1737] You can decide to get infatuated.

[1738] with something.

[1739] But we're only talking about the swell of emotions that we differentiated between the person on the island and falling in love, that those are two different feelings.

[1740] But I'm saying, I guess what I'm saying is you can be the person who never finds love, who is constantly, quote, falling in love and fantasy.

[1741] Right.

[1742] But I just want to be clear about the two things we're talking about.

[1743] Both things the person is responsible for.

[1744] So learning to love and respect somebody, that's the one thing.

[1745] the long -term love and then the the the the thunderstruck feeling is also all your imagination I'm saying the fact that someone can choose to fall in love all the time to me proves that it's a decision you make and it can be made over and over again in an unhealthy pathological way yeah but it can be made so if you agree that you can love somebody you can come to respect them and appreciate them and all that and then we're just arguing about whether or not you can have the wave of emotions.

[1746] I'm saying the wave of emotions is kind of up to the person.

[1747] It's at least within their ability to have the wave of emotions.

[1748] I understand why you feel like that.

[1749] Right.

[1750] Because you love a lot of people and respect a lot of people.

[1751] And so I get why you feel like you could probably have that with every person on Earth.

[1752] But I don't feel like that.

[1753] Right.

[1754] And I don't love it.

[1755] everybody that comes into my orbit right so i don't love everybody i think if that spectrum we just detailed i think i'm a six if the love addicts a 10 someone who's never been in love is a zero i think i'm a six for the falling in love part so then the fact that i've fallen in love with like four or five women says that it's not zero and it's not a cabillion right i have felt the feeling of falling in love with five people or something right yeah so wherever i'm at on that spectrum it's happened to me multiple times and yet it doesn't happen to me every week right so i'm a six i'll give myself yeah yeah i'm just taking the personal responsibility for it it's like you can kind of pick which where you want to be on the spectrum and now i guess that's where i disagree.

[1756] Yeah.

[1757] Yeah.

[1758] I don't think you picked to be at a six.

[1759] I think you, that's your disposition and there's a lot of factors that have come into play that have made you over time feel like that.

[1760] I didn't pick it.

[1761] You're right.

[1762] But I could change in either direction.

[1763] I could pull back from that.

[1764] If I was a love addict, I could start being more realistic about what I'm really experiencing.

[1765] Is it this or is it a high?

[1766] Do I really, you know, like I could get into that and I could come off of that point.

[1767] And I think likewise, someone that's at a zero could come up to a four if they put effort into it and they said, oh, I want to fall in love.

[1768] Okay, how do I fall in love?

[1769] Well, I'm probably, I'm more flirty with everyone I meet or I'm more open to all this different stuff.

[1770] I presume if there's physical actions you could take to walk backwards from a 10, I think there must be some you could walk forward from a zero.

[1771] Yeah, makes sense.

[1772] That's all.

[1773] That was all?

[1774] Oh.

[1775] Well, the good thing that we had a juicy debate with, with one.

[1776] one of the facts.

[1777] Yeah, good thing.

[1778] Don't you think?

[1779] Yeah.

[1780] It's always fun.

[1781] Okay.

[1782] I love you.

[1783] I love you.

[1784] Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[1785] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[1786] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey.