Stephen Merchant

[0] Hi, my name is Stephen Merchant, and I feel overqualified about being Conan O 'Brien's friend.

[1] You know, I'd have to agree with you.

[2] Thanks very much.

[3] I seriously would have to agree with you.

[4] Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brandy shoes, walking loose, Climb the fence Books and Pels I can tell that we are going to be friends I can tell that we are going to be friends Hello there and welcome to Conner O 'Brien Needs a Friend podcast that Well I think we keep hitting new heights If I do say so myself I don't know Yeah yeah each Lowes Well lows are heights If you look at them upside down What?

[5] But I'm joined, as always, by Sonove Sessian and Matt Gourley.

[6] And I'm going to start this episode with a complaint, something that's been rankling me a little bit lately, which is icy drinks.

[7] Now, we do a podcast, and we work with these very sensitive microphones.

[8] I don't know when this is going to be airing, but it won't.

[9] Oh, this will air.

[10] This will see the light of day.

[11] I will be heard.

[12] I was talking to, let's just knock it off.

[13] I was talking to a comedy icon, someone who I really adore, and I was looking forward to this interview.

[14] And throughout the interview, you were the worst defender, Matt.

[15] You kept, you have what looks to be an iced.

[16] It's like a pink drink.

[17] What is it?

[18] It's just an unsweetened passion tree.

[19] Yeah, passion tea.

[20] But it's mostly ice.

[21] And I'd be talking to this person and should be saying something really emotional like, yeah, and I heard through this really tough time.

[22] And then I'd hear, here, do it, Sona.

[23] And then I'd hear this.

[24] I'd hear that in the background, and I'd look over it.

[25] You're taking a big old gulp.

[26] I saw you look at me. Oh, I looked at you several times and it didn't stop you.

[27] Well, I couldn't tell if you were just looking to see what that was or you're trying to send me a signal.

[28] So I have a request.

[29] I know plastic straws are out.

[30] We don't want to be killing any dolphins with plastic straws.

[31] But I will pay for you two to get metallic straws of your choice.

[32] This is a tough thing for me. Because when you say something bugs you, I just want to do it more.

[33] And I know you have a legitimate complaint.

[34] Let me see this.

[35] This is literally, we do a lot of, we do a lot of jokes and a lot of fun stories on this podcast.

[36] That's really nice.

[37] But sometimes you're talking to somebody and it gets real and they start talking about something.

[38] They start talking about something like, yeah, it was really rough for me because, you know, I remember I'm like, I was really close to my grandfather and I'm like, uh -huh, uh -huh.

[39] And then one day, I went to his room and...

[40] He's doing the laundry.

[41] I just...

[42] And I'm like, what?

[43] I'm my grandfather.

[44] You can't hear?

[45] Here, I don't play.

[46] That's what I'm going on.

[47] And I'm having trouble even understanding what they're saying and I'm so distracted.

[48] Put a goddamn straw in the drink.

[49] Can I say something?

[50] You work in audio.

[51] When my defense, I waited until that guest drank her own iced coffee.

[52] I cannot control the guests.

[53] If a guest shows up and has an iced coffee, there's little I can do.

[54] I think it might be a smart idea, and I think you're the behind -the -scenes whiz putting this whole thing together, Matt.

[55] So if you maybe have thought to have some straws here and supply the guests with the straws, so they at least have the option, but I can't control them.

[56] You, I can control.

[57] I didn't know there were going to be drinks.

[58] I didn't even ask for a drink.

[59] It was nice enough to David to bring one in the first place.

[60] David brought this?

[61] Yes.

[62] David, get in here.

[63] David, this is David Hopping because we all know Sona needs an assistant to do the work she's not doing.

[64] How dare you?

[65] David, have a seat right here, if you will.

[66] That is true.

[67] Is Mike, this mic on?

[68] He's not.

[69] He's not.

[70] Our engineer ran away?

[71] He's printing your ads.

[72] Oh, actually, he told me to say this.

[73] Okay, that's great.

[74] David, no one asked you for icy drinks and you supplied them?

[75] Well, the guest that was on requested a drink.

[76] Right.

[77] And then you saw it.

[78] I'll just get, I'll just get Matt.

[79] Well, this is what Matt got Wednesday, so I thought he might want it again.

[80] I'm not throwing you under the bus, David.

[81] Oh, no, no, no, no. You made it quite clear.

[82] And I always call, I always call you.

[83] I said, do you want any Starbucks?

[84] Then I call Sona.

[85] And then I didn't have your number in my phone, but I just got you on.

[86] Yeah, well, I have had his number for a long time.

[87] And I know what he's up to.

[88] He's up to.

[89] It's called pulling focus in show business.

[90] Matt wants to make it about himself in some.

[91] small way and you saw me really vibing with a guest we had it we were in the groove it was going to be this is probably the interview that's going to get me a Peabody Award and you couldn't handle it could you Matt so you could handle it it was probably no big deal literally it sounds like three lab skeletons falling down a flight of steps I don't want to make excuses but this is literally my 10th podcast this week and I'm a bit fried so get off my back the man yeah you know what Adam brought something up.

[92] Slash, he said slash was doing it during his interview.

[93] He slash.

[94] And you called him out on it and how fucking dare you?

[95] Call out slash on anything.

[96] First of all, I don't care who it is.

[97] Oh, no, no. There are lines.

[98] I don't care who it is.

[99] And I adore slash.

[100] I adore slash and check out that episode.

[101] It's a really good one.

[102] You're plugging this podcast.

[103] On this podcast.

[104] They're already listening.

[105] You got them.

[106] There was some of that episode.

[107] much ice rattling, it really did sound, it really did sound like the Titanic had just hit the bird.

[108] There was ice exploding all over the place.

[109] And so the reason I called you in, David, is because what you basically did was you weaponized the podcast.

[110] You brought, um, weaponized or brought joy?

[111] Yeah.

[112] Brought joy.

[113] This is delicious.

[114] It's actually really good.

[115] We had never had it.

[116] We had it because Matt got it the other day and it was good.

[117] Thank you.

[118] Maybe you should just try the drink and then we can all have noisy ice drinks on.

[119] No, thanks.

[120] I'm good.

[121] And also, I live off hate.

[122] I have a vast reserve of hate inside my body.

[123] And I draw on it at any time.

[124] I could not eat food and live for a thousand years.

[125] That hydrates you.

[126] You don't need beverages.

[127] It does everything.

[128] It hydrates.

[129] It provides caloric energy.

[130] Yeah.

[131] And I'm talking about just about six years from 1972 to 1978.

[132] I can live off that hate.

[133] Good.

[134] It's healthy.

[135] You know what?

[136] It's done fine by me. Oh, has it?

[137] Okay, and I'll tell you something else, David.

[138] You're not to bring them, okay?

[139] You're not to bring them icy drinks anymore.

[140] What if we get a straw, then can they have it?

[141] All right, but I don't want to hear Matt Gorley, I do not want to hear ice rattling around and don't tell me. You saw me looking at you, didn't you?

[142] And what was that glare like?

[143] Like I said, I think it was like, oh, is he just hearing the noise and looking over to see what the noise is?

[144] But then it was just a fraction of a second long enough to go, oh, no, he hates me. Yeah, that's right.

[145] Yeah.

[146] That's why I hold for that fraction of an exercise.

[147] second.

[148] There's a lot of thought that goes into my deadly glares.

[149] Yeah.

[150] But it didn't change your behavior, I noticed.

[151] You kept schlurping in a shlurper.

[152] Well, I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt.

[153] Well, you were wrong.

[154] I'm just as petty as you thought I was.

[155] There is no more ice, no more rattling ice on this show.

[156] I'm shutting it down.

[157] Okay.

[158] Okay, hopping.

[159] Next time they want something to drink, get him some maple syrup and a paper cup.

[160] Oh my God.

[161] Caesar has spoken.

[162] All right, my guest today is a hilarious writer, actor and comedian who co -created the office alongside Ricky Jervais.

[163] You also know him from such shows and movies as extras, Hello Ladies, Jojo Rabbit and Logan.

[164] Now he has a new series, The Outlaws, which he wrote, directed, and stars in.

[165] Episodes are available on Amazon Prime Video.

[166] I am very excited.

[167] He's with us.

[168] Stephen Merchant, welcome.

[169] I'm here because I'm an enormous fan of you.

[170] Oh, that's so nice.

[171] Absolutely.

[172] That's so nice.

[173] Well, chiefly your work on the Simpsons.

[174] Oh, for Christ's sake.

[175] The other stuff I'm not aware of.

[176] You know, it's so funny, I do, I've encountered people.

[177] I've encountered people on the street.

[178] They've been like, oh my God, when you were working for the Simpsons, I just, man, that show was firing on all cylinders.

[179] I love you.

[180] I love that stuff in The Simpsons.

[181] And then they sort of trail off, like, don't know what became of you after that.

[182] Right.

[183] Yes, exactly.

[184] I'm not kidding.

[185] They really don't seem.

[186] to know that there's been they think, oh yes, you've been dabbling in this other stuff, but when are you getting back to The Simpsons?

[187] The other one that kind of damned with faint praise is hey, are you Stephen Merchant?

[188] I am.

[189] Oh, yeah, my wife's a big fan.

[190] Oh, God.

[191] Oh, she is?

[192] Oh, okay, good, is she here?

[193] No, right.

[194] So why are you not a fan?

[195] Yeah.

[196] I had the other day, the flip of that, well, not quite the flip, but someone came out to me and said, oh my God, I'd love to get a picture with you because my wife's such a fan and I was like sure and I took the picture and he went yeah such a fan and I texted you about this and he said he said me not so much and I thought why okay I'm not some maniac who expects everybody to enjoy what I do but why throw that in?

[197] Of course.

[198] That's why is it because they don't see you as quite a human being you're you're this other thing right you're a personality you're a show business star and there's many reasons first of all it could just be that he's I mean, he's being on.

[199] He's got good taste.

[200] He's got good taste.

[201] He's got impeccable taste in comedy.

[202] He went out of his way to say, now, Stephen Merchant, he chooses his words more carefully than you.

[203] He's less needy as a comedian.

[204] And I said, I'm going to be talking to Stephen in a few days.

[205] And he said, now that's someone I look up to.

[206] So I remember years ago when Ricky Javille, I was working with Ricky Jays, and he first got very famous in the UK.

[207] And, you know, we would work and we had an office and we would go for lunch.

[208] And on the way back, you know, he'd get stopped once or twice for photos, you know.

[209] He could have always very gracious and did photos with them.

[210] And one time we were walking back and we were kind of a bit hurried.

[211] We had a meeting or something.

[212] And a couple of tourists came up and they said, oh, excuse us.

[213] Can we get, their English wasn't great.

[214] So they said, can we get a picture?

[215] Can we get a picture?

[216] And Ricky was like, yeah, sure.

[217] And he put his arms around them.

[218] And they said, no, can you take picture of us?

[219] And he went, oh, right.

[220] And he had no idea who he was.

[221] And so he just had to awkwardly take the camera back and just take a photo of these times.

[222] That's one of those things.

[223] There's an analogous situation to that, which is I've had someone come up to me at a restaurant with a pen, and I say, and who do I make this out to?

[224] Meaning to Martha, too, and they're like, it's the check.

[225] I love it because you just, you shrink instantly to one one thousandth your size.

[226] The pen stays the same size, so you're a tiny little person with a massive pen.

[227] That's right.

[228] Yeah, I was back in my hometown of Bristol, and I was, again, that thing.

[229] where you, you know, again in Bristol where I'm from, you know, I'm fairly well known because it's like local boy made good.

[230] The same sort of thing.

[231] A few people had said hi on the day.

[232] Wait in a store came out.

[233] Guy came running out.

[234] Oh, excuse me, I went, sure.

[235] What do you want me to sign?

[236] He went, no, you left your credit card.

[237] Oh, yep, okay.

[238] Yep, no problem.

[239] Okay.

[240] You probably want to tell me that I'm your favorite.

[241] That's right.

[242] No, not at all.

[243] Anyway, these are such relatable stories to start the show with, aren't I?

[244] Do you ever go to buy a Porsche?

[245] And this is something, if you're listening, we've all been there.

[246] Right?

[247] And you know you have a choice between the mahogany trim.

[248] It's easy how quickly a little taste of a glamorous world or exclusive world, how quickly you were climatized to that.

[249] Because I've been lucky.

[250] I'm not going to boast, but I made a little money over the years.

[251] And I flew my parents from England to L .A. business class.

[252] Not first.

[253] You know, come on.

[254] I'm not made of money, but business class.

[255] And my mother, she got to the house and I said, how was the flight?

[256] And she said it was wonderful.

[257] We got off the plane before all the ordinary people.

[258] She'd never been on a business class fly in her life.

[259] And suddenly they were the ordinary people.

[260] Yes.

[261] Amazing how quickly your head is turned.

[262] I love that you are trying to come across as a guy who still understands what it's like outside the bubble.

[263] I'd like to tell people that you drove up in two Bentley's.

[264] Two Bentley's, one which I don't know how you did it.

[265] One for me and one for my iPhone.

[266] Yes, yes.

[267] Because of your height, You were able to straddle both of them.

[268] You were working the wheels of both at the same time.

[269] It looked like it was very unpleasant to drive two Bentley's at once.

[270] I would love to know if it's true that supposedly Bono was, you know, touring.

[271] He was like in Madrid doing a show, and his favorite hat hadn't come, it'd been forgotten.

[272] And he had it flown in a business class seat to Madrid.

[273] Just the idea of like a chaperone and Bono's hat in a chair.

[274] Yeah.

[275] I don't know if that's true, but I love that image.

[276] I would love it also if they gave the hat one of the exits where you need to know how to use the emergency.

[277] And the woman says, are you happy to do this in the event of an emergency?

[278] And because the hat didn't say anything, she took that as a yes.

[279] And then the plane had some difficulty.

[280] People had to get out.

[281] And the hat was just sitting there.

[282] Everyone choked on the smoke.

[283] A stewardess threw it down the slide.

[284] Oh, yeah.

[285] Oh, my God.

[286] Well, I have been really looking forward to talking to you because we've crossed paths many times.

[287] And your friend, Ricky Jervaids, our mutual friend, but I think he really likes you.

[288] I think he respects you.

[289] But he brought up this image once.

[290] He said, my favorite thing in the world would be to see, I think he said this on here, he said, I want to see you and Stephen Merchant fight.

[291] Yeah.

[292] And he said it'd be like two praying mantises.

[293] That's right.

[294] And I thought, because, now I'm considered quite tall, as comedians go, I'm 6 -4, and if there's some product in my hair, 6 -6, 6.

[295] You are 6 -7.

[296] I remember being 6 -4, Conan.

[297] I don't know what that was, probably.

[298] And then you turned 7.

[299] I was around 13.

[300] But it is a very, in all seriousness, it's very odd because I have, when I walk into a room, I've been most people's height at one time or another.

[301] I've been your height, probably most of the people in the studio's high.

[302] I've been through there and carried on going.

[303] Yeah.

[304] And I would say, and I speak with confidence here, I think 6 -4 is the optimum height for a man. I think it's a great height.

[305] I think it's a masculine height.

[306] I think the problem is you can still buy clothes off the peg.

[307] You can still get shoes to fit.

[308] Once you get to 6 -566, now you're getting silly.

[309] Yeah.

[310] There's not furniture doesn't fit.

[311] You can't get into cars.

[312] Yes, I agree with you.

[313] And 6 -7 is absurd.

[314] It's a nonsense.

[315] It makes life miserable.

[316] No, no. You have to have furniture specially built.

[317] Especially built.

[318] You probably, like, your home, everything is specially designed.

[319] I know you have a, and this is well known about you, special toilets have been made for you.

[320] Special very high toilets that other people can't fit on unless they have a small step ladder.

[321] Yeah.

[322] And yes, and it's an absolute pain.

[323] And everything in your life is slightly, you know, seen through the, am I going to fit?

[324] Am I going to, you know, beds in hotels?

[325] Very rarely long enough.

[326] Door frames are about six foot four or five.

[327] No, probably the six, I think is the standard door frame high.

[328] Again, too low for me. And the one I particularly, know, it's in America, and it's not so pronounced in England, but for some reason here, toilet stores, bathroom stalls, are not quite tall enough, particularly in airports.

[329] I find if I walk into a bathroom store, I can see into the bathroom stores either side.

[330] And guess what?

[331] And I just, and of course, you just glance and there's a guy just looking back at you sitting on the toilet.

[332] But Stephen, they don't know.

[333] Also, here's the thing, they don't know that you're 6 '7.

[334] Right.

[335] They think that you're on tippy toes trying to have a look.

[336] Trying to have a look -see.

[337] But the problem is that what happens is because I'm aware of that, I then have to sort of enter a toilet stall, sort of at a crouch.

[338] I sort of creep my way in, which looks really weird, menacing.

[339] I was going to bring this up much later in the interview, but people know of you in the States.

[340] Between me in airports.

[341] Yeah, yeah, you're called Luxey Merchant.

[342] People know that you like to have a little looksy over the top of the toilet stall.

[343] It's very, very difficult.

[344] Check out what's happening, and it's hurt you.

[345] you in this country.

[346] You've done fine, but think of, no, the word's out.

[347] Sona, true or false?

[348] Today you said, oh, is Lixie coming in?

[349] I did.

[350] It's Luxi Merchant.

[351] Yeah, yeah.

[352] And I said, let's not bring that up till it probably won't come up at all, but if it does come up, I'll bring it up later.

[353] Yeah, there's a reason I didn't come into the studio.

[354] That's right.

[355] You've been, Matt, you were even, you were excited until you, to be here in person.

[356] And then you found out that old Lixie Merchant would be here.

[357] I really hope people don't listen to this show because that's going to hang around no one will you'll never hear of this again Luxie Luxie!

[358] Yeah, hi there that's me You're a perfect Okay, you took a little too far Fuck you Lots of the natural progression No, I've been very excited to talk to you because we both got into comedy I've always seen you as kind of a kindred spirit I hope you feel the same way about me But I'm a big fan of yours is you have a great mind, and I love your comedic persona.

[359] You seem to thrive in discomfort, which is something I, it's that area that I just love, I've always loved in comedy.

[360] And I know that we have some things in common.

[361] First of all, our relationships with our bodies.

[362] I always found my body to be absurd.

[363] Yes.

[364] And that helped me in comedy.

[365] It gave me a head start.

[366] There were a couple of people I saw on television.

[367] One was Dick Van Dyke in reruns of the Dick Van Dyke.

[368] show.

[369] And then the other, of course, when the pythons were rerun in America, and I discovered John Cleese, I saw this guy that was very funny with his tall body and almost kind of owned it in a way that was intriguing to me. And I think you had a similar experience.

[370] Very similar.

[371] I mean, Cleese actually grew up in a place called Western Supermare that's not far from my hometown of Bristol.

[372] And then he went to college in Bristol.

[373] So for some reason, I always felt a kind of affinity because he seemed like a local guy done well.

[374] Like you say, very tall.

[375] And I was very influenced by him.

[376] And for some reason believed that one day I could be John Cleese.

[377] I don't know where that presumption came from.

[378] I thought, well, he's a tall guy from the neighbourhood.

[379] If that's what they want on TV, I guess I could do that.

[380] And I would study that physicality.

[381] And there was a precision to the way he used his body.

[382] It was very exact.

[383] I think a lot of those great physical comics, Oliver Hardy has it as well.

[384] There's an exactness to wait.

[385] Like when Oliver Hardy's ringing a doorbell, he'll sort of flip his hat into his arm and then flourish with the finger as he buzzes the buzzer and it's all so precise and elegant and dedicated and I just I just was very inspired by that and like you say using what's inherently comic about you the things which people already find funny and someone said to me once do you think you went into comedy to control when people laugh at you and there may be some truth in that oh that's interesting I never I've thought about this a lot I used to think of it as I'll make fun of myself before they get a chance to make fun of me that's a very British thing indeed yeah yeah but also Also, it's interesting, for instance, you know, it extends to kind of career success, right?

[386] So when the office first happened, the UK version and Ricky and I sort of got well -known, there's lots of plaudits because it was kind of, where did these guys come from?

[387] You know, they were sort of new kids on the block and we got a lot of sort of plaudits.

[388] And then as time went on and we became more and more familiar, then it was like, it seems like it's overrated that show, these guys.

[389] And then when it went to America and it was like, we prefer the American version.

[390] You know what I mean?

[391] And it's sort of, and then what happens, and you see it with a lot of people is eventually you, So Elton John had that.

[392] So through the 80s, he was kind of lambasted.

[393] And then at some point you become a national treasure if you live long enough.

[394] Yes.

[395] This is what I'm hoping for next.

[396] No, no, no, you've got it.

[397] You just, I mean, trust me, I'm trying for that too, but I'm told I need to live to be 150.

[398] That's right.

[399] I need to be the same age as someone who fought in the Civil War to be a national treasure.

[400] But there's this thing that happens.

[401] You guys will do two years of a show and then decide, that's enough.

[402] Well, that's because of the economics.

[403] Yes, yes.

[404] There's no money in syndicate.

[405] there is no such thing.

[406] So why are you going to make 150 episodes of something?

[407] It's crazy.

[408] Right, but faulty towers.

[409] How many faulty towers are there?

[410] There are 12.

[411] Yeah.

[412] And they're perfect.

[413] You know, the American style for many, many years, and I think it's starting to change.

[414] I think Netflix and the way streaming works now is starting to change it.

[415] But if something works in this country, the mandate was grind that thing until it's completely no longer funny.

[416] and then do another 10 years.

[417] That's right, exactly.

[418] And that was our system.

[419] So I was always looking at your shows, and when I say you are, I mean, UK shows, and thinking that you were the superior minds and that you had more integrity than we had, I didn't realize there was just no money in it.

[420] Just no money in it.

[421] Just what's the point?

[422] You know, you just burn out.

[423] There's only two of you.

[424] You can't afford a writer's room.

[425] So it's like, why am I doing this again?

[426] Why am I do something else?

[427] Also, I think in the case of the office, we did about 14 episodes in total.

[428] And I think we thought, well, we've cracked TV writing.

[429] Turns out this is the first thing we've done.

[430] And look at it.

[431] You know, we thought, yeah, we can just keep repeating this success forever.

[432] Turns out it's way harder than you think.

[433] That idea of don't quit a hit, I think I would cling on to now with dear life.

[434] So it sort of looks like it was, you know, great integrity.

[435] It's just a terrible foolish mistake.

[436] And if only we'd just kept on grinding that out.

[437] Oh, then I'd have three bentley's.

[438] My former writing partner, Greg Daniels, We got our start together and worked together for many years and we're still close friends.

[439] And so I remember being worried for him because he told me the British office is done, but I'm going to try and make an American version.

[440] And I was worried for him.

[441] I didn't think it could be done.

[442] I didn't want my good friend getting disappointed, having a hard time.

[443] And good God, that thing, it was brilliantly done and brilliantly cast.

[444] but...

[445] Thank God he didn't listen to you.

[446] I know, well, trust me. Because otherwise, I mean, I would just...

[447] I mean, I'd be just scrapping around doing stand -up in, like, pubs, instead of just swanning around with celebrity friends and swimming pools.

[448] I am not kidding.

[449] I am not kidding.

[450] Someone could fill a book with, so thank God you didn't listen to Conan.

[451] Because I'm not even kidding.

[452] There have been about five or six times in my life when I've given people advice, which was, you know, like to Mike Myers, When he pitched me, Wayne's World First.

[453] I've talked about this before.

[454] He was brand new at Saturday Night Live, and he was like, I've got this thing, and it's guys doing cable access in the basement.

[455] And I said, you know, cable access, low -rent version of a TV parody, that's kind of been done.

[456] And I thought I talked him out of it, and then he went and he submitted it to read through anyway.

[457] And I was like, well, this kid's about to get his comeuppance.

[458] Oh, my God.

[459] Because I'm the guy who knows it all.

[460] Well, I think smartly, the one thing, I, like you, you know, grew up watching a lot of TV.

[461] And there was a number of attempts to make British shows, including Faulty Towers, into American shows.

[462] And they'd often failed.

[463] And one of the things which seemed a recurring problem was the original Brits had tried to do the adaptation.

[464] And my advice to Ricky, I remember thinking, was we should not try and do this ourselves.

[465] We don't quite understand America in its DNA, even though we think we do because we've grown up watching American stuff.

[466] And it needs an American showrunner to adapt it.

[467] And we met with a lot of people.

[468] but Greg was the one who the only one I think who seemed to spot that it was really a romance At the core of it it was a romantic comedy that also had this funny boss character And I think he spotted that that romance at the core of it Between Jim and Pan was what was going to keep people coming back Week to week.

[469] To be fair, Greg is always saying everything's a romance He just happened to be right in that meeting But he and I once had to do a rewrite on a Godzilla versus Mothra Creature Battle.

[470] And he said, you know...

[471] Godzilla hearts, Mothra.

[472] Yeah, yeah.

[473] He kept saying it's a romance.

[474] Godzilla loves Mothra and Mothra loves Godzilla.

[475] You know, clearly...

[476] And this is one question that I had for you because I think you're one of the few people that could answer it.

[477] You came from this British comedy writing and performing tradition and you create, along with Ricky, this terrific masterpiece.

[478] of British television, but you participated a lot in the American office.

[479] Well, I wish I could take more credit.

[480] No, I would show up occasionally in the writers' room.

[481] I would show up occasionally in the writers' room, but, I mean, they were more than they didn't need me there.

[482] I think I just went there because I enjoyed it because it had been me and Ricky in a kind of drafty North London office, and we would come to Glamorous L .A., and I would sit in there with Greg and, you know, 12 brilliant people watching ideas bubble up.

[483] And it was very exhilarating for me to see that kind of, and I'd mean this, I mean, in a complimentary way, like a factory of great comedy TV.

[484] It's unique to this country.

[485] That's my, that's what I wanted to talk to you about a little bit is that your experience on the office was just you and Ricky alone, and it can be kind of feel monastic.

[486] And this is, when I got into writers' rooms, real writers' rooms, whether it was on Saturday Night Live or The Simpsons, and then my own writer's room, I just wanted to live there.

[487] I loved being in a writer's room.

[488] and there's something about getting a bunch of people together coming up mostly with ideas that could never be on television.

[489] That's right, yeah, yeah.

[490] And saying things that should never be repeated, but it was just this wonderful world.

[491] There's an exhilaration to that that is hard to replicate anywhere else.

[492] I have to say one of the things that I think it has changed the way people watch and experience comedy, the concept of it being a documentary, you know, and that we're just observing these people but they can talk to camera but that there's no laugh track and I think for so long in the United States I don't know much about the British tradition but there was a laugh track on all comedy.

[493] Well do you know there's a show that's a big influence on me which is MASH.

[494] Now interestingly in England when the TV show MASH was aired it did not air with a laugh track so when I would come to the US I would see it with reruns and there'd be this laughter but it seems to be shot like in a Korean military hospital, but there's like this audience.

[495] And it's very surreal, whereas in the British version, for some reason, it had no laugh track.

[496] So that show, you're talking about Arthur Miller, it felt like a sort of dark kind of existential comedy in which these men were making jokes in the face of war and death, and it was the only way they could deal with the horror.

[497] It was a really sort of powerful comedy drama.

[498] And then you see it with laughter and Hawkeye's insufferable.

[499] It's like, I want to go, shut the fuck up, man. Just do your medical work.

[500] Stop trying to make quips.

[501] You know, and it's, but without that, when there was an audience, he's just, he was firing them off into the ether.

[502] Shut the fuck up, Hawkeye.

[503] And so it's interesting, isn't it, how it changes your, your interpretation of that, of that, for me at least, for that show.

[504] Well, you know, it's, uh, what I will tell you is that the, there was a concession made on that show.

[505] It was very specific.

[506] Laft track everywhere, except in the operating room.

[507] Right, right.

[508] So there was no laugh track in the operating room, and that was one of the concessions they made.

[509] But, you know, to try and show the sanctity of that space, I believe that an entire generation, or more than one generation now, because the original British office is 2001, and it's, I do think now there's an entire generation that watches reality TV, and there's no laugh track.

[510] There's no, they decide, and they look at reaction shots, and they see the way things unfold and they see discomfort and they're quite happy deciding for themselves what's funny.

[511] But it's funny how it does take people, I think, getting primed, you know, initially at least, to know what to expect because I remember when the original British version of the office aired, obviously I wasn't in the show so people didn't recognize me. So I was on a train, the first pilot episode had aired on the BBC and I was on a train and there were two women talking opposite me and one said to her friend, hey, did you see that documentary last night on the BBC about an office?

[512] The boss, the boss, was absolutely hysterical.

[513] And her friend said, oh, no, I think that was a sitcom.

[514] And the first lady said, oh, well, it wasn't very funny then.

[515] What?

[516] And isn't it interesting that sort of she was pride, she didn't know what it was.

[517] Right.

[518] And it was hilarious.

[519] When she was told it was a comedy, oh, no, no, no, not funny then.

[520] And it's interesting sort of, so I wonder if it's like, I don't know whether people, like you say, they're conditioned now to see shows without a laugh track.

[521] And so they accept them, you know, whereas initially I think they probably a bit, it was a bit old.

[522] No, I think we used to watch, I mean, I grew up on shows like Happy Days, and on Happy Days, which, you know, it's a comedy and it was a huge hit, but the Fonz would enter.

[523] And he had to hold until the applause was done.

[524] And sometimes it was important that he walked in the door and say, Richie, don't do it, that man's about to shoot you.

[525] I don't think that was a plot.

[526] But anyway, let's just say.

[527] But if the Fons would come in and this, you know, he has to save Richie's life, Richie Cunningham's life.

[528] Richie Cunningham's.

[529] life, he has to stand there for like sometimes two minutes while people applaud start to say his line, Richie, but then hold some more.

[530] And you think about it and that's, what are we watching like a Victorian comedy in a music hall?

[531] Like why?

[532] Why?

[533] Except that it's also though, again, you know, again, big influences on the office and me more generally were included Roseanne, which I watched the original pilot of Roseanne again recently.

[534] And it's brilliant.

[535] And again, it has some of that laughing in the face of desperation, a kind of working class woman trying to you know, keep her family afloat.

[536] And it has a laugh track, but I don't know why.

[537] I just, I almost zone it out.

[538] I'm just so engaged by the world.

[539] The characters, I think Cheers is the same.

[540] You know, it was so, it was classy and it felt characterful.

[541] It felt like a rich universe.

[542] So I don't know where at some point, like you say, it became unfashionable.

[543] I want to make sure I mention extras because that's when you show up on camera in the show extras, which I loved.

[544] And that was the immediate follow -up to the office.

[545] The difficult second album.

[546] Yes.

[547] But I think quite brilliant, and I thought, and that's when I first got to see you performing and you were hilarious, a terrible, terrible agent.

[548] That's right, yes.

[549] Just really the worst agent in the history of the world.

[550] And very thick about everything.

[551] And you're looking at me right now the way you would look.

[552] Right.

[553] Well, at Ricky's character, which is quite, you're quite certain.

[554] doing just fine.

[555] There was the idea of someone who is utterly hopeless but incredibly enthusiastic.

[556] Yes.

[557] Yeah.

[558] And we always imagine that he'd had his business cards printed in like a motorway service station.

[559] You know, like sort of, we can get like a hundred for 10 pounds on the way to a business meeting and, you know, somehow.

[560] And, and, and, but he also probably had a part -time job as well.

[561] He was an agent by sort of, it was agent in the week and then worked in a, in a cell phone store at the weekends.

[562] And like, who could be the worst?

[563] person to have as an agent.

[564] You got to work with David Bowie.

[565] Yes.

[566] In a famous episode of extras.

[567] Yes.

[568] And the nature of the work was you guys actually had to come up with a song that David Bowie writes for Ricky's character.

[569] He sees Ricky in a bar, I think, and starts to write a song about him.

[570] Ricky and I actually have in the sort of music publishing world a song co -written with David Bowie.

[571] That's amazing.

[572] Bowie?

[573] Bowie.

[574] Bowie.

[575] Yeah, I'm still nervous, but when I have to say that, you know, quick, cut around that.

[576] I don't want to embarrass myself in front of the Bowie fans.

[577] He's a pretty well -known singer.

[578] And I've met him, which is also embarrassing.

[579] And you wrote a song with him.

[580] This Bowie, this, is it Divid?

[581] No, David.

[582] But we, yeah, but we wrote these lyrics and then we sort of sent them off to David Bowie.

[583] And then he came back on the day and he'd sort of took us into a room and there was a piano and he played us the tune.

[584] And it was absolutely extraordinary.

[585] What is it?

[586] Funny little fat man?

[587] Funny little loser.

[588] Yeah, something like that.

[589] And he's supposed to be sort of composing it, as you say, sort of spontaneously.

[590] But it's funny, it was, Ricky had said to him, he said, what, musically, how would you want it to be?

[591] And Ricky said something like, oh, if he could sort of be like, you know, like heroes.

[592] And David Bowie himself said, oh, I'll just write another hero, shall I?

[593] Sure.

[594] Give me one of those, would you?

[595] Yes, yes.

[596] You know that song you did that will endure for all time?

[597] That's right.

[598] one, please.

[599] But it's funny because when you meet someone like that, and obviously you've done it throughout your career, there's a feeling that I've got this one opportunity to like fully absorb their genius, their majesty, and of course you can't because you're with them for, you know, for a limited amount of time.

[600] And what can you possibly do to fully understand?

[601] But it's like, oh, this is my chance to understand where his genius comes from.

[602] But you can't.

[603] So you end up just, I mean, oddly enough.

[604] I remember talking with David Bowie about reality TV that's a show, like Big Brother or some show that was on the night before.

[605] I'm thinking, this is a missed opportunity here, isn't it?

[606] You know, what can you do?

[607] I had the great pleasure of David Bowie came on our show a number of times and he was very funny.

[608] One of the highlights of my life was meeting him, but I always realized there's no way I can convey to this man what he means to me. And I've had that experience with McCartney and Bowie, Elvis Costello, where I find myself chatting with him.

[609] them.

[610] There's nothing I can do.

[611] It's a frustrating feeling to, because they've heard it all.

[612] You know what I mean?

[613] They've heard, yes, yes, I mean the world to you.

[614] I've changed your life.

[615] But it's a longer story.

[616] I don't have time to explain the whole thing.

[617] But I ended up once at a party at Mick Jagger's house that I did not know I was going to.

[618] I showed up at a door and Mick Jagger open.

[619] I was going to a Thanksgiving dinner that my friend said, do you want to come to this Thanksgiving dinner?

[620] She'd neglected to mention it was at Mick Jagger's house.

[621] Well, first of all, that's a mistake.

[622] That's not a good.

[623] friend.

[624] Anyway, so we were there and it's all, it was a very interesting evening.

[625] But at the end of the evening, he was suffering from jet lag because he'd just come back from the States.

[626] So he was, the parties had wrapped up a little early and we were waiting for cars and cabs and things.

[627] And I found myself stood at the door with Mick Jagger, just me and Mick.

[628] And I'm like, this is the moment.

[629] This is, I'm here with him now.

[630] I can ask him anything about the writing of Exile on Main Street.

[631] And my only question was, oh, jet lag.

[632] Have you found any way to combat Jetland.

[633] And that was the end of it.

[634] That was my chance to ask him anything.

[635] You cracked it.

[636] I got it.

[637] I blame your friend who didn't tell you ahead of time.

[638] I was in a car once a number of years ago with somebody and we were on our way to a baseball game and this person said we're going to stop off.

[639] There was a driver and I was sitting in the front seat and this person was sitting in the back.

[640] So he says we're going to pick up a a friend along the way.

[641] So I say fine, no problem.

[642] We drive along.

[643] We stop.

[644] Jack Nicholson.

[645] Wow.

[646] Oh my goodness.

[647] And Jack Nicholson gets in the car and I was enraged.

[648] Of course.

[649] Because I'm not a fan.

[650] No, sure.

[651] And this is taking time.

[652] We might be late for the ball game.

[653] That's right.

[654] Did I take the wrong tact here?

[655] Yeah.

[656] No one saw you going that way.

[657] I was just mad that I didn't.

[658] Yeah.

[659] So what did you get any sense of Jack?

[660] Because that's the thing, isn't it?

[661] You somehow want to understand the of them.

[662] What I understood was he was very highly intelligent and he knew how to be a movie star.

[663] Yeah.

[664] And I've never been more anonymous in my life.

[665] I've been doing the late night show for about 10 years at that point.

[666] And we walked into this Yankee game and I was walking behind him.

[667] Nobody saw me. I was completely anonymous.

[668] If you want to be invisible, walk within five feet of Jack Nicholson.

[669] But he was absolutely great.

[670] He was fantastic.

[671] and kind of in this old, like, almost Humphrey Bogart way, knew how to be a big star, had been a big star for so long and kind of handled it with ease and panache.

[672] But I'm interested in that as well, because you've met a myriad of very famous people, many of whom I'm sure you are deeply respectful of.

[673] When you're meeting someone socially, even before you were well known, did you always have a self -confidence about meeting someone?

[674] Did you ever find yourself tongue -tied or awkward or in all?

[675] You know, it's odd, and I'd think it's the better answer would be like, oh, I'd be so tongue -tied.

[676] And the truth is that I wasn't.

[677] Even when I was very young and working at SNL and very famous people would come in the room.

[678] I don't know why.

[679] I was very comfortable screwing around with them pretty quickly.

[680] And I don't know why.

[681] Arrogance?

[682] Is it sheer arrogance?

[683] I think it's arrogance.

[684] I think it's a little bit of sociopathie.

[685] But was it also that you, Were you not impressed by something?

[686] Oh, God, no, I was very much.

[687] I was very, I mean, I can, I remember exactly where I was standing when I was first told, go into that room and pitch Steve Martin, an idea.

[688] And I'm a 24 -year -old vagabond, and he's the greatest comedian who changed my life.

[689] Because I always get still slightly, I think there's an anxiety about, I don't know, the wrong thing somehow.

[690] I was at a, you mentioned Paul McCartney here, I was at an event, it was an Oscars event that I wasn't, I just, somehow again, wind up at this party again.

[691] Someone said, someone said, come to this party, we want to tell you anything about it.

[692] Was it always Thanksgiving?

[693] I'm going to a Thanksgiving party.

[694] Oh, it's the Oscars.

[695] No, it was like, it was for a movie that must have been nominated and I was there, some friend of a friend of friend.

[696] Anyway, I'm there.

[697] And as you mentioned before, I'm six foot seven and so tend to be, you know, a foot and a half or whatever, much like you, above everybody else.

[698] So I tend to be seen and can see the rest of the party.

[699] And I saw Paul McCartney walking around the room and our eyes met.

[700] And at the time, my show, Hello Ladies, which was about dating was on.

[701] And he saw me and he kind of went, and he came towards me. And I was with my friend Danny.

[702] I thought, Christ is Paul McCartney coming.

[703] He's coming over what we're going to talk about.

[704] He's fucking Paul for Christ's saying.

[705] And I was sweating.

[706] I was just sort of, what am I going to say to Paul?

[707] And he's like, again.

[708] And he came over and, and he said, oh, hello, Stephen, looking for the ladies?

[709] I was like, always, Sir Paul, always.

[710] Yeah.

[711] And he was with him.

[712] And he was with his wife.

[713] And I was thinking, and it was a bit noisy as well.

[714] So it's sort of hard to hear.

[715] And it sort of went quiet.

[716] I thought, is it my turn?

[717] Do I say something now?

[718] And he said, oh, it must be difficult, you know, being that.

[719] So I spotted you from across the room, you know.

[720] And I remembered this story, which I told in the past about when I was at a New Year's event once.

[721] It was Trafalgar Square.

[722] And at Trafalgar Square, like Times Square, at New Year, there are thousands of people there.

[723] They all gather, and it gets very kind of packed.

[724] And I was there.

[725] And coming up to midnight, and two women came over to me. and they said, are you going to be here for a while?

[726] And I said, oh, yes, I am.

[727] I thought, here we go.

[728] They've spotted Steve.

[729] I said, yeah, I am going to be here for a while.

[730] They went great, because my friends and I have arranged to meet back at you.

[731] And I swear to God, about two minutes past midnight, the girls came back and a bunch of friends, and they started gathering around me. Oh, my God.

[732] You're a lamp post.

[733] You're a lamp post.

[734] This is Trafalgar Square.

[735] that has Nelson's column and other well -known landmarks, but they felt, oh, I was the obvious one.

[736] Anyway, so they all came out, and I thought, well, they're at least going to invite me to a party or some such.

[737] No, they just drifted off into the night.

[738] Anyway, I told Sir Paul this story, but again, the music's a little loud, and I'm thinking, and it's quite complicated, and I know, anyway, I finished the story, and it just goes quiet, and I'm thinking, I fucked it here, I love to be fucked it.

[739] And then he started laughing.

[740] I thought, oh, thank God, and he laughed enough.

[741] He was nice and heart, and anyway, he said, anyway, better mingle.

[742] And off he went, and I thought that was the, best it could have gone.

[743] You know what I mean?

[744] He came over.

[745] I told him a funny story.

[746] He left.

[747] That was it.

[748] You know, and I was just so relieved.

[749] But if he really liked it, he wouldn't have said better mingk.

[750] No, I'm sorry.

[751] Why are you ruining this for him?

[752] I think Paul thought it was fine.

[753] Oh, God.

[754] I don't have to come, Sir Paul.

[755] I'm, I'm an American and a proud American.

[756] I mean, it's the quick, the quick better mingle.

[757] You know, that would have me worried.

[758] I've always thought it went well.

[759] No, you're right.

[760] You put it in perspective again.

[761] No, no, no. Well, trust me. Better Mingle was my catchphrase.

[762] I've talked to Paul about this.

[763] Do you ever use Better Mingle?

[764] I heard a great one once, which was, we did a charity thing.

[765] And Bono, my old dear friend with the hat, Bono, he was there.

[766] Anyway, my friends were having a baby, and they were big YouTube fans.

[767] And I said, and I very rarely do this, but I said, would you sign this card for my friends?

[768] They're having a baby.

[769] They're huge fans.

[770] And he's very sweet, and he wrote a little message, and he gave me the card.

[771] He was very nice to him.

[772] And now I said, okay, well, see you later.

[773] And he went, see you down the road.

[774] And I thought, what a clever line, because I bet there's a lot of people that want to hang out with Bono.

[775] So if they say, see you later and he goes see you later, they can go, well, when?

[776] Let's get the diaries out and start thrashing out some dates.

[777] And he can say, see you down the road.

[778] But see you down the road.

[779] It's like, I look forward to our next acquaintanceship, but I'm not going to make any plans.

[780] It's also a little ominous.

[781] I'll see you down the road.

[782] Well, if you say it in that voice, it's obvious, yeah.

[783] I suppose if you say, no, there are plenty of things I could say in that voice that wouldn't say, Have a cookie No, that's creepy Yeah, this could be something in the cookie Better mingle It's also terrifying Did Paul's face go completely flat When he went Better mingle Then you realize I want to make sure That I talk to you About your new program Which I'm really enjoying Called The Outlaws Because this is a show You wrote this show You're in the show And you direct the show Is that correct?

[784] I direct to three of the first six episodes Yeah, yeah Okay And terrific cast, and then I don't know how you did this, you have Christopher Walken in this, who's brilliant, by the way, and hilarious in the show, playing this fantastic character, I don't know how you snagged him.

[785] I mean, yes, you're Stephen Merchant, but that's still, that's quite a get.

[786] It is a get, and he doesn't, as you may know, have a cell phone or a computer, and he's quite hard to get in touch with, and I think somehow we faxed him the script, old school, and he read it, and he asked me to come up to Connecticut where he lives, to have a meeting, and And, you know, we've already explained my nervousness around meeting Big Star.

[787] So I'm kind of, I'm approaching the house, and he's got this sort of house, and it's sort of in the middle of this sort of wooded area.

[788] And I was quite intimidated.

[789] I was like, who's going to open the door?

[790] It's either going to be Christopher Wolken or the Unabomber.

[791] You know, I was like quite sort of nervous.

[792] And open the door, and it's Christopher Walken, you know.

[793] And I wish I could do an impression of it.

[794] But the first thing he said to me was, would you like some of this omelette?

[795] and I said Sure Thank you Chris You put the spaces in the correct You don't need to do the impression If you you spaced it correctly Can you do an impression?

[796] I don't think I can You know Would you?

[797] It's hard isn't it It's hard and you have to have I mean Jay Moore does the best Christopher Walken I've ever heard But my God It's such a specific Very specific And also it's the rising And falling in the wrong places?

[798] That's right.

[799] That makes him.

[800] Well, so, so I go in and I have some of his very fluffy on it.

[801] Would you like an art?

[802] Yeah.

[803] And we sit there and, uh, there's no one else in the house and we, and we sit there and, um, someone that told me beforehand, uh, Christopher is very comfortable with silence.

[804] And it's because he's very thoughtful man, very sort of, uh, contemplative.

[805] And so he would ask me a question about the show and I would answer and he'd just go quiet.

[806] Just sort of look out at the window.

[807] And then he asked me something else and I'd answer and he'd go quiet.

[808] And it was like having a Zoom conversation in person.

[809] Yes.

[810] You know what I mean?

[811] There was a lag.

[812] Yeah, there's a lag.

[813] I wasn't quite sure if he was thinking or buffering.

[814] And I was there three and a half hours.

[815] By hour or three, I was so weak from hunger.

[816] I said, any of that omelet left?

[817] And he had so many questions and they were really, they were really kind of perceptive about the script and about the character and about people he knew that were like the character.

[818] And I think he was just sort of getting to know me and thinking, do I trust this guy?

[819] and does he have the answers to my questions?

[820] And by the end of it, I felt like a real kind of connection with him and an affinity with him.

[821] And then miraculously, he came to the UK to shoot the show.

[822] And what's nice is you're shooting this in Bristol.

[823] It takes place in Bristol, which is your hometown.

[824] I mean, I would think you're running into people you grew up with who'd love to play an extra, who'd like to be on the, you know.

[825] Well, the funny thing is that the show is about people doing community service.

[826] And when I was growing up, my parents were involved with community service in Bristol.

[827] they supervised the offenders.

[828] They themselves weren't criminals.

[829] I mean, they did, I think, a couple of bank heists.

[830] We all know.

[831] After that, they went straight.

[832] But my mum used to have people coming through the ranks that I went to school with.

[833] So there was one kid called Dave, who was the world's laziest thief, who would always be coming back through.

[834] And my mom would be like, what have you done this time, Dave?

[835] And he said, well, I broke into a house and I was stealing the TV, and the homeowners came back.

[836] And they said, what are you doing, Dave?

[837] And I said, I'm not Dave.

[838] And they went, yeah, you are.

[839] You live next door.

[840] And he's like, literally just gone into his neighbor's house.

[841] He didn't want to walk a block over.

[842] And so my mom would tell me about people like Dave or about these other people that come through the doors.

[843] And I just thought, what an interesting backdrop for a story.

[844] And then ironically, when I was shooting the show, I went for dinner in Bristol's fanciest restaurant.

[845] And I only got a reservation because I'm on TV.

[846] And he was in there having a meal with his family.

[847] Fucking Dave.

[848] I come back.

[849] I was like, how did he get a fucking reservation?

[850] And on the way out, I said to the Major D, you better count the cutlery on the way because this guy I was, I had the last laugh.

[851] That must be nice to go back to your hometown and make a show.

[852] Yeah, but I thought there'd be a ticker tape parade when I got back to that there was nothing.

[853] I think it's because there was COVID.

[854] That's the only reason I could assume that there was no ticket tape parade.

[855] But it was no, it was nice.

[856] It was just we were shooting in COVID and it was very tough.

[857] So you didn't really get to socialize or to go out or to visit restaurants or to see people you knew.

[858] It was sort of frustrating in a way.

[859] And just you just lived in constant fear that, you know, 78 -year -old Christopher Walken was going to get COVID on your watch.

[860] Yeah.

[861] And you're just, like, sweating.

[862] It's like, my main character is going to die.

[863] It's like being in Squid Game.

[864] I can never know who's going to go next, you know.

[865] Your Squid Game is making a television show with Christopher Walker in Bristol.

[866] It's pretty much the same thing.

[867] What's your, now do you have a proper size writer's room or is this a UK writer's room of like two of you?

[868] There was about five of us, five or six of us.

[869] So it's not bad.

[870] Quite, it's...

[871] Pretty good for England.

[872] Pretty sizable for England.

[873] Has it changed much, the TV writing industry in Britain?

[874] Has it become more in the Hollywood mold?

[875] Or is it still...

[876] There's less money in it.

[877] Well, there's a lot less money, but there is increasingly partnerships, I think, with people like Amazon.

[878] So this originated with the BBC and then became a co -production with Amazon.

[879] And so I think there's now a lot of things with Netflix and the BBC or other...

[880] So there's, I think, a little bit more money coming in.

[881] that helps, but I worry that it's going to sort of, that you're going to get these demands.

[882] Not that we had it with this, but you're going to get demands about sort of kind of ironing out the regional specifics, do you know what I mean, so that we're going to be British, but sort of referring to our dear beloved President Biden, you know what I mean, an effort to appeal to it.

[883] I did find that to be a very odd episode.

[884] Exactly.

[885] Yeah, that's an interesting thing as TV becomes really global.

[886] Yeah, right.

[887] I mean, it is global now.

[888] It used to be the pythons weren't worried about.

[889] that's it.

[890] Anything other than let's just hope we get to do another season.

[891] Someone told me about that show sex education that's made in the UK, but apparently they've sort of been encouraged to make it quite.

[892] So it's sort of a portrait of a school, but it has lockers and elements that don't seem as familiar to British people as they would to America.

[893] It's kind of almost feels like an American high school in England.

[894] Oh, what?

[895] I haven't seen it, so I don't want to disrespect the show.

[896] No, no, I'm not.

[897] I'm just, I do think that there's going to be more and more economic pressure for everyone's shows.

[898] I mean, look at how it's changed the movie industry.

[899] If you're looking at the Fast and the Furious, people will line up and go see it anywhere.

[900] It doesn't matter.

[901] You don't even have to speak English.

[902] You don't have to know what the dialogue is to like these fast cars and Vin Diesel grimacing.

[903] That's right, yeah.

[904] By the way, I thought the last Fast and Furious was absolutely fantastic.

[905] I took my son to see that because I said, you need to understand the Fast and the Furious franchise.

[906] And so I drove him to a theater watched it and afterwards he said I understand now I understand in a good way or was he pro or?

[907] Well he's like me I'm not going to say I'm pro they surely the filmmakers know that this is silly and fun and joy I think the filmmakers know that I think some of the people involved may not know that that's not my concern I'm just enjoying it I'm just sat there in the audience having a whale of a time I want you to walk up to Vin Diesel and say I just love what a silly ironic romp see how that goes over.

[908] I'll tell you how that's going to go over.

[909] Well, listen, this has been, I truly, you're on my short list of, Stephen, of people that I've just been delighted to talk to.

[910] Thank you so much.

[911] No, seriously.

[912] It's been a real pleasure.

[913] I'm such a fun.

[914] I love, I love your work and your ethos, and I like the way you have presented yourself comedically to the world, and I'm a big fan.

[915] So, thanks for doing this.

[916] Thank you so much.

[917] And I feel the same way about you.

[918] So it's a real honor and pleasure to be here.

[919] Thank you, guys.

[920] Oh, good.

[921] So you've amending how you began with the whole Conan O 'Brien feel overqualified.

[922] Do you know what?

[923] I genuinely, I don't mean this in a way that is sort of self -pitying.

[924] I've never, I've always assumed people don't need me as a friend.

[925] I don't have a, it's not a lack of, it's not sort of an insecurity.

[926] I just think people can survive without me. They don't need me in their life.

[927] I've always felt that way.

[928] I agree with you 100%.

[929] I feel that I might be a nice bonus.

[930] Yeah.

[931] But that I'm not crucial.

[932] I'm a seat filler.

[933] If you need someone, I'm a great dinner.

[934] No, no, no. This is how we feel about ourselves.

[935] I'm not saying it's true.

[936] I mean, in Stephen's case, it may be.

[937] But look, I can't help Stephen with his problems.

[938] I just tried to relate to him.

[939] But no, I don't feel that way at all.

[940] I think I'm absolutely essential.

[941] And I think a world without me is not a world.

[942] I think the minute I die, all existence ends.

[943] You're just in my imagination, Stephen.

[944] And that's why you exist.

[945] And on that note.

[946] Thank you for joining us.

[947] Conan O 'Brien does not need friends.

[948] I don't need anybody.

[949] Screw all of you.

[950] Let's do review the reviewers.

[951] We haven't done that in a while.

[952] It's where I sort of combed through the sometimes blisteringly positive reviews on Apple podcasts and find some that are worth mentioning.

[953] I do like to know what the people are thinking.

[954] I don't want anyone.

[955] No, you don't.

[956] I do, actually.

[957] I have people approach me. on the street all the time and talk to me about the podcast, and I do enjoy that.

[958] But this is a chance for me to get outside my little bubble and find out how people really feel.

[959] Well, this one is kind of carrying on a theme that I'm starting to notice or a pattern, and I think we might want to address it.

[960] This is similar to one we've had before.

[961] The subject is Conan Cool.

[962] It's five stars, and it's written by Ig De Yeet, and it goes like this.

[963] Conan and the chill chumps are cool exclamation mark by the way i'm 11 and i listen slash watch you exclamation mark that's like the third 10 or 11 year old we've had leave a review saying they listen to this show i want to say that that fills my heart with glee because i've always thought that my target audience was about 11 and i think that this is proof that uh that i'm correct my whole career i've always thought there are children out there who completely understand what I'm doing.

[964] And, you know, for years in my monologue, I'd have jokes and some were better than others, but then I started just playing peek -a -boo with the camera.

[965] I would tell the, I would tell the cameraman to lock off the camera.

[966] And early on, the cameraman would follow me if I walked to the right or the left.

[967] And I would tell them, don't, lock it off, don't move it.

[968] I'll walk out of camera, and then I'll peek back in.

[969] And I would see, you know, 350 people in the audience, all adults.

[970] laughing really hard when I peaked back in.

[971] And I realized that we're all 11 -year -olds.

[972] We're smaller.

[973] We're 6 -year -olds.

[974] We're 5 -year -olds.

[975] The fact that I, by leaving the frame and then peeking back in would make people giggle.

[976] And I thought, I think inside all of us, or most of us, there is that little kid.

[977] And so the fact now that actual children are writing in and saying, this show matches my intellectual and emotional capacity, perfectly.

[978] That makes me very happy.

[979] You know, the show is very visual, and this is you saying things.

[980] So I wonder what it is about how you say things or what you say that is appealing to children.

[981] Well, that's a very valid point.

[982] That's true.

[983] I can understand why the show I would act like a foolish man. What is it now about hearing me?

[984] I don't know.

[985] I don't know if any of you have any insights into why right now I'm speaking.

[986] You'd think that that would not make an 11 -year -old laugh or 10 -year -old.

[987] But I think often in my conversations, do funny voices.

[988] I think I do some funny voices, but I think maybe they can just tell this man is stunted developmentally.

[989] Yeah.

[990] I think that comes across pretty quickly.

[991] I mean, I think it doesn't matter who I'm talking to.

[992] We had an interview with Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor not too long ago.

[993] and I did my best to be thoughtful and to hold my own and discuss the great issues of the day.

[994] But also I showed terrible lapses into foolishness and childishness with some of my questions.

[995] Did you hear that she got impeached just for being on this podcast?

[996] She did and even, she didn't even fight it.

[997] That was the interesting thing.

[998] They impeached.

[999] She introduced the articles.

[1000] It was the first time they've removed to sitting down.

[1001] justice, and they brought it to her, and she said, what can I do?

[1002] I deserve to go.

[1003] She did the podcast and then just went back and started packing up.

[1004] Yeah.

[1005] It was instantaneous.

[1006] Well, I think what she did is she said, I'm off to do Conan's podcast.

[1007] Start packing while I'm gone.

[1008] Career suicide by podcast.

[1009] Yeah.

[1010] And then she said to one of the clerks, and that nice ceremonial gavel they gave me, this 200 years old that I got when I began make Seam Court justice, just, you should just put that in the shredder because I'm off to do Conan O 'Brien's podcast.

[1011] So our biggest response to her appearance was from 10 and 11 -year -olds.

[1012] I want to know how an 11 -year -old finds their way to this podcast.

[1013] Is it through their parents or on their own?

[1014] Well, we do, I've tried to get lots of tie -ins with children's products.

[1015] So, yeah.

[1016] So there's a lot of toys out there.

[1017] If you go to any toy store, and I know they're.

[1018] don't exist anymore.

[1019] It's all online.

[1020] So don't get me there.

[1021] But most toys now show up with a picture of me somewhere on the box that says, as discussed on Conan's, on Uncle Conan's podcast.

[1022] And these are, yeah, these are toys for like three and four -year -olds.

[1023] They say, be careful, you know, don't, don't leave unattended with, you know, this blog.

[1024] Man. Yeah.

[1025] Oh, no, no, no. Please don't go down that road.

[1026] No, I, I'm doing.

[1027] I'm doing, I'm doing what I can to make sure that I get a lot of tie -ins.

[1028] I do a lot of Nickelodeon appearances.

[1029] Yeah, my dermatologist...

[1030] Have you been slimed?

[1031] I've been slim so many times my dermatologist said that it's eating into my bone.

[1032] They found green slime in my marrow.

[1033] So I've got to stop that.

[1034] I toured with the wiggles for a while when they were making their New Zealand tour.

[1035] I'm doing everything I can to make sure that I get to very young children so that they grow up thinking Conan O 'Brien is the podcaster.

[1036] Oh, you're indoctrinating.

[1037] I am indoctrinating them, yes.

[1038] Okay, yeah, gotcha.

[1039] Well, then.

[1040] Why did this kid call us chumps?

[1041] Yeah, good question.

[1042] The hell.

[1043] Yeah, kid.

[1044] He loves me, but he thinks you guys are extraneous.

[1045] I think it's because he can tell both of you occasionally lapse into sober thought and reflection.

[1046] And he knows that I'm the one that will never let him down.

[1047] The 24 -hour clown.

[1048] I just wanted the ending to rhyme.

[1049] And I did.

[1050] Yeah.

[1051] Peace out, eight -year -olds.

[1052] Mike drop.

[1053] Yes, Mike dropped.

[1054] Nope, we picked it back up.

[1055] I grabbed the mic and I dropped it.

[1056] Mike drop.

[1057] I put a little net above the floor.

[1058] Cutting net now, dropping Mike.

[1059] Mike falls through net.

[1060] Mike hits floor.

[1061] Mike drop.

[1062] Huge magnet on ceiling raises Mike back up.

[1063] Machine I have built by scientist reverses polarity of your magnet, fires Mike into ground.

[1064] It sticks to ground.

[1065] Mike drop.

[1066] I'm involved in a new.

[1067] clear accident in the 1950s and control the gravitational matter in the Earth's core.

[1068] I travel further back in time than you do.

[1069] I shoot you when you're 15 years old.

[1070] I make sure that you cannot reverse the polarity.

[1071] Mike drop.

[1072] Mike can never be picked up again.

[1073] You don't exist.

[1074] Killed by me when you're 15.

[1075] My ultimate plan comes true.

[1076] Now I don't have to do this podcast.

[1077] What's the evening?

[1078] Conan O 'Brien needs a friend.

[1079] Conan O 'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gourley.

[1080] Produced by me, Matt Gourley.

[1081] Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Solitaroff, and Jeff Ross at Team Koko, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf.

[1082] Theme song by The White Stripes.

[1083] Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.

[1084] Take it away, Jimmy.

[1085] Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.

[1086] Engineering by Will Beckton, additional production support by Mars Melnick, talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, Con. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode.

[1087] Got a question for Conan?

[1088] Call the Team Coco hotline at 323 -451 -2821 and leave a message.

[1089] It too could be featured on a future episode.

[1090] And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

[1091] This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.