S15 E11: [What Came Next Presents] SWW S9 Updates // Part 2

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] Something was wrong is intended for mature audiences, as it discusses topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence.

[11] Content warnings for each episode and confidential and free resources for survivors can be found in the episode notes.

[12] Some survivor names have been changed for anonymity purposes.

[13] pseudonyms are given to minors in these stories for their privacy and protection.

[14] Testimony shared by guests on this show is their own and does not necessarily reflect the views of myself, broken cycle media, or wondering.

[15] The podcast or any linked materials should not be construed as medical advice, nor is the information a substitute for professional expertise or treatment.

[16] All persons are considered innocent and less proven guilty in a court of law.

[17] Thank you so much for listening.

[18] Welcome to What Came Next Presents.

[19] Since, Something Was Wrong updates.

[20] You think you know me, you don't know me well.

[21] My name is Amy B. Chessler.

[22] Welcome to What Came Next Presents on the Something Was Wrong feed.

[23] I have the honor of having both Tiffany Reese, the host of Something Was Wrong, as well as Danielle from season nine on this episode.

[24] February of 2022, I get a call from a private investigator who says he was hired by a woman trying to investigate her boyfriend.

[25] Because of confidentiality, he couldn't give me her name.

[26] He tells me that during his investigation, he's stumbled upon the podcast and a bunch of those court records that were open records.

[27] He was contacting everybody.

[28] I gave him all the information that I had filled in a lot of.

[29] of blanks for him.

[30] I basically said, I know you can't give me your client's name, but you are more than welcome to pass along my name and information if she wants to call me. And she did.

[31] I'm going to call her Samantha, just for the sake of this podcast.

[32] She calls me shortly after and she's just freaking out.

[33] She had actually put a tracker on the car.

[34] The car was under her name.

[35] I was trying to get a feel for her situation, like, how long have you guys been together?

[36] She's like only about four months.

[37] I was very upfront.

[38] Like, that's not very long time.

[39] Can you share with me how you put a car for him under your name?

[40] And she said, he said he was in the middle of buying a house.

[41] He said if he got a car, it would affect his credit.

[42] He would have a hard time because he was already in the middle of purchasing a house.

[43] Of course, I was just trying to help him out.

[44] And I was like, nope, that totally makes sense.

[45] I kind of pieced together for her what I could in a very short amount of time.

[46] We actually didn't talk on the phone for too long.

[47] I said, does he live with you?

[48] Are you worried about your safety?

[49] She's like, no, luckily I'm still living at home with my parents.

[50] We have not moved in together or anything like that.

[51] I was like, that's good.

[52] She was just like, look, I feel so ashamed and embarrassed.

[53] I said to her, I get it.

[54] Like, if anybody understands that, it's me. But girl, you got the shit figured out at four months.

[55] You knew to, like, hire a private investigator.

[56] What it had happened is that she had a GPS on the car, and he said he had gone for a work trip to New York, and it was still pinging in L .A. When it should have been at the airport.

[57] And so that's when she hired the private investigator.

[58] Ironically, the PI had told me that all of those women on the restraining orders, he had reached out to and told them about the podcast too.

[59] So I wound up getting a message from a woman.

[60] We talked in the season about all the restraining orders I had found out about.

[61] So one of those restraining orders was a woman named Carissa.

[62] I'm using a pseudonym hair so we don't give away their real identities.

[63] This woman who reached out to me on Instagram was friends with Carissa.

[64] She said, hey, Carissa told me about the podcast.

[65] I had already known that this private investigator had told Carissa, and she said, I actually dated already at the exact same time as Carissa.

[66] That's how we met.

[67] We were both dating him.

[68] I think I was only dating him around five months.

[69] He wasn't physically abusive towards her.

[70] But again, he was telling her all these lies as well about him.

[71] Fake British accent, all the stuff that we talk about on the podcast.

[72] She's like, oh, yeah, that's everything that he told me. me as well.

[73] So you're getting the podcast out there via private investigators, Tiffany.

[74] Then we shift into custody again.

[75] Around April or May, we go to court because he's refused to do anything he's supposed to regarding paperwork.

[76] And so my lawyer has to take him to court.

[77] They get there and of course the judge says, you've got to fill out this basic paperwork.

[78] And the judge winds up awarding me $2 ,500 to cover the lawyer's fee.

[79] for having to take him to court to tell him to do what he's supposed to do.

[80] So this is the first time this judge has done anything against him.

[81] He immediately emails my lawyer and it's just like, if you want to negotiate, fine.

[82] We can negotiate about this.

[83] If that's what Danielle wants, I will focus on my other daughter.

[84] Mind you, this is May 22.

[85] I see this email and I text Kenji and I say, I think Darcy has contact with him.

[86] The only reason I said that is because she had insisted for quite some time that she had no contact with him whatsoever.

[87] We weren't really kind of keeping tabs on her per se, but when we're asking about how the kids are doing, the kids don't talk about seeing Artie, do they?

[88] And he's like, nope, she says there's no contact.

[89] But I get this email to my lawyer is like, I'm going to focus on my other daughter.

[90] So again, I message, I think Darcy is, hanging out or talking to Artie.

[91] And he's like, I don't think so.

[92] She's pretty adamant about keeping him away.

[93] And I'm like, okay, maybe I'm wrong.

[94] Maybe he's just saying shit as usual.

[95] Two weeks later, he's like, you were right.

[96] She did admit that she would talk to him sometimes because she didn't want to keep his daughter away from him.

[97] So we start negotiations.

[98] During this next couple months, We're going back and forth in the custody agreement.

[99] We've sort of narrowed it down, but essentially I was asking for full physical and legal custody was zero visitation.

[100] In exchange, he would have to pay zero child support and he would not have to pay back that lawyer's fees.

[101] And he could not contest an adoption if I chose to have an adoption in the future.

[102] The reason why I did that is because Stacey, that's the woman who had the child with him 12, 13 years ago.

[103] I am in contact with and in regular communication with.

[104] She's been going through the process of having her husband adopt her daughter.

[105] Even though he's not ever seen this child a day in her life, she cannot get this through the courts about adoption because I think at one point she'd try to file for child support.

[106] They could never find him.

[107] Even though his name is not on the birth certificate, that somehow registered him as the father.

[108] So she has to get him to sign off on these adoption paperwork for her child that's 13 that he's never seen in his life.

[109] I knew the kind of struggle she had, so my lawyer and I decided that we were going to add in a clause that said, you can't contest a future adoption.

[110] We moved forward with that, but he insisted there was a clause that he could sue me. He claims I have valuable stuff, which is Not at all the truth.

[111] I had, like, clothing and books, a bunch of garbage that I kept in storage for a year.

[112] And my lawyer was like, you can get rid of it now.

[113] And I donated it.

[114] But he wanted the ability to sue me. This is what we're going back and forth on, even at the beginning of June.

[115] This gets put on hold because I'm headed on my first vacation and forever.

[116] My boyfriend's brother was getting married in Maui.

[117] He flew all of us out there.

[118] Me and my daughter, him, his mom, we all went out there.

[119] It was a lot of fun.

[120] I had taken my daughter on like a quote -unquote vacation to see where all the summer before that for three days, but never been on the airplane full vacation before.

[121] So this was such a treat for her.

[122] I think we told her about this in February.

[123] and we didn't leave until Jude and she almost every other week would bring up how excited she was about going to Hawaii.

[124] About a week in, we left my daughter behind at the Airbnb with his mom for a bit and we went to go to downtown Lahaina to like see a bunch of shops and stuff.

[125] We weren't going to be gone long.

[126] We were really hungry.

[127] And so we decided to go to this burger place on the water.

[128] There's a line.

[129] We have new.

[130] no desire to stand in line for a table.

[131] So we asked them like, hey, could we just set up the bar?

[132] And the bar is really tiny.

[133] If you can imagine, there's just like five seats.

[134] If you're facing the bartender, the far left, there's two empty seats.

[135] So we sit down in those.

[136] My boyfriend sits to the far left, to the very end seat.

[137] I sit next to him to his right.

[138] To my right is this other guy who is eating and talking to the bartender.

[139] There's an empty seat next to him.

[140] and then the last fifth seat is this girl who's over there.

[141] We ordering drinks or looking at the food.

[142] And I happened to glance over.

[143] I guess that empty seat wasn't exactly empty.

[144] The person had I think gone to the bathroom.

[145] And that person had to come back and sitting down.

[146] I happened to look over and I look back and I'm just like, you know that the time we're like you think you see somebody you know and you're just like, okay, no, it's probably just like somebody who looks like.

[147] Because I thought I've seen him around.

[148] the city that I live before, it's very possible.

[149] I'm just like, okay, no, no, it's like a weird coincidence.

[150] But I just couldn't shake this feeling that it was him.

[151] So I get up and I'm like, I'm going to go to the bathroom.

[152] And I walk to the back behind us to the bathroom, thinking that on my way back to my seat, I can get a better look.

[153] After I'm in the bathroom, I walk back to my seat, but I can still only see the back of his head.

[154] he has a scar on the back of his head.

[155] And I see this person has a scar on the back of their head.

[156] So I'm sitting down and I'm like, okay, if I can just hear his voice and see, maybe it's all crazy coincidence.

[157] Meanwhile, my boyfriend is texting me what is going on with, like, your demeanor's changed.

[158] Like, what is happening?

[159] I was trying to listen and I'm hearing this guy talk to the bartender.

[160] and he's got a British accent.

[161] And the stuff he was saying was stuff like, oh, I'm from England, we're always drunk.

[162] It's always time for a beer or some bullshit like that.

[163] I don't remember the exact freezing, but I do remember that's exactly the type of thing that Artie would say.

[164] My brain is shorting out right now.

[165] I'm trying to figure out if it's just playing this incredibly cruel trick on me Or if this is really fucking happening on my first vacation with my boyfriend.

[166] My boyfriend's like, are you okay?

[167] And I'm texting him.

[168] I think this guy on the other side of me is my ex.

[169] Of course, he does the same thing that I did in the beginning.

[170] It's like, no, I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

[171] It just sounds like him or whatever.

[172] He's like, you would know.

[173] I'm fucking shaking.

[174] I was like, it's him.

[175] So he's like, well, if that's true, We're not going to do anything right here in the bar.

[176] I don't know if that was him reassuring me or like a question.

[177] He knew everything about Artie, right?

[178] All of the deceit, faking the British accent, the lying about his job, about military service.

[179] Ironically, my boyfriend actually served in the military.

[180] And it's funny because one day he came to me with like all these certificates he had gotten while in the military.

[181] And also his discharge paperwork, he was like, hey, I was just going through some stuff.

[182] I know you've been lied to about this, so I'm going to show you my actual discharge paperwork.

[183] And obviously, there's a ton of photos.

[184] That's the other thing.

[185] Ask for photo evidence.

[186] But he obviously knew about all the lies.

[187] He knew about the restraining orders of other women, the verbal abuse that I went through, the threats of abduction of my daughter, the threats of violence against my family that I was fearful of.

[188] I pretty much told him all of the things that we covered in the podcast.

[189] He hadn't listened to the podcast, but he didn't really need to because I told him everything.

[190] I actually think a few of my best friends still haven't listened to the podcast because they were like, yeah, we already know the story.

[191] So I think in his mind, it was like, what do you want us to do?

[192] It was probably part reassurance of me, helping me gain control of the situation.

[193] Because in that moment, the moment he said, look, we're not going to do anything.

[194] Honestly, my mind was trying to think 10 steps ahead.

[195] And in 10 steps ahead, I realize I don't have a signed custody agreement yet.

[196] So I have to play this smartly.

[197] Also, I am in a bit of fighter flight mode at this point.

[198] They took a deep breath.

[199] And I was like, you know what?

[200] You're right.

[201] This motherfucker does not get to ruin my vacation.

[202] This is the first time I am face to face with him since everything went down.

[203] and it's not even like face to face, right?

[204] He doesn't get to place me back into victim mode.

[205] I'm like, you're right.

[206] He doesn't matter.

[207] Did you post about the trip before you went?

[208] Or did anybody who was going on the trip post about it and possibly tag you?

[209] Or did he have access to your email at all?

[210] No, not at all.

[211] But there were so many of my friends and I immediately texted.

[212] This didn't feel like a coincidence for them either.

[213] My text to some of my other friends are like, Um, so you know how I'm just like hanging out on vacation in my way doing my thing?

[214] Well, you'll never believe who I fucking ran into dot, dot, dot, already.

[215] They didn't believe me. We actually took a video of it.

[216] There was a little window there next to like the very end.

[217] My boyfriend sent me to quote unquote take a picture.

[218] He's like, get over there by that window.

[219] Let me take a picture of you.

[220] And so he not only took the picture of me, but he got a video of already being there.

[221] Scammers are best known for.

[222] living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[223] I'm Sachi Cole.

[224] And I'm Sarah Haggy.

[225] And we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once the facade falls away.

[226] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King, and no real product to push.

[227] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

[228] To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Judice, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[229] Follow Scamfluencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[230] You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad -free right now on Wondry Plus.

[231] I'm Dan Taberski.

[232] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[233] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[234] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[235] She's like, I can't.

[236] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[237] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[238] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[239] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[240] Well, you were holding something back.

[241] Intentionally.

[242] Yeah, yeah.

[243] Well, yeah.

[244] No, it's hysteria.

[245] It's all in your head.

[246] It's not physical.

[247] Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[248] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem?

[249] Or is it something else entirely?

[250] Something's wrong here.

[251] Something's not right.

[252] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[253] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[254] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[255] You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[256] I think you texted me or maybe you sent me a voice memo or or a voicemail or something.

[257] I remember it being very casual.

[258] Like, hey, girl, so I know we haven't talked in a little bit.

[259] I've been busy.

[260] We went on vacation and Artie was there.

[261] So, like, call me back when you can.

[262] I know you're busy, but we should talk.

[263] I'm like, holy fuck.

[264] I'm sure by the time we communicated, you had a lot of days to, like, process.

[265] But I was instantly like, it just fucking never ends.

[266] It was so crazy.

[267] My mind was just like, what the fuck?

[268] I think when he figured out it was me, he looked legitimate.

[269] surprised as well, but who knows, there's no way he would have known through my social media.

[270] I actually didn't even talk about it on my social media.

[271] Regardless whether it was intentional or not, it's fucking terrifying.

[272] I can't imagine how you would feel if I fucking ran into that guy.

[273] Was there ever a time where you and new boyfriend after that experience in Hawaii considered alerting authorities?

[274] I think we felt like it was coincidental, one of those weird universe things that happens.

[275] We didn't think about alerting authorities because we've got a lot of security around our place and also my boyfriend is former military.

[276] What ends up happening shortly after that, I almost immediately was like, you need to make him sign the damn custody paperwork.

[277] I don't care how you get it done, but you need to get it done.

[278] I was getting really forceful with my lawyer.

[279] I was like, enough with his games.

[280] Get this signed.

[281] So he did.

[282] He did.

[283] after a few weeks, he did finally notarize and submit shortly after that to kind of tie up this piece of it.

[284] It wound up getting to the court and they kicked it back because they were like this line about him suing you doesn't belong in a custody agreement.

[285] They said, you need to take this out and re -sign it.

[286] So of course, he refused to resign it.

[287] So we were waiting to go to court in October, probably a week or two, before that court date, I got a message on Instagram.

[288] She said, hi, my name's Mary.

[289] I'm looking for someone by your name that was on the something was wrong podcast.

[290] If you are, please call her email me. If not, I apologize for the inconvenience.

[291] And she leaves her phone number and email.

[292] I'm like, hi, Mary.

[293] Yes, that would be me. And she says, My sister has been dating, quote unquote, Kyle, as he calls himself now, for over a year.

[294] She is on the verge of quitting her job and moving in with him in Manhattan Beach.

[295] I just found the website last night because none of my family or friends have ever felt good about him, and I wanted to try to figure out his deal.

[296] I basically would like guidance slash help with how to tell my sister all this information without overwhelming her and or angering Artie.

[297] this is them.

[298] And she sends me like three photos.

[299] And so I'm like, hey, I'm so sorry.

[300] I just got up getting my daughter ready for school, but I can give you a call at 8 .30 that work.

[301] She's like, yes.

[302] So we get on a call and proceed to discuss everything.

[303] She's like, my sister's been dating him.

[304] She has this job.

[305] She's talking about leaving to move in with him.

[306] But she's never, ever been to his place, and he's always got some excuse about it.

[307] He was still claiming to be British, still claiming to be a doctor, still traveling a lot, all this stuff.

[308] And I broke it down.

[309] I was like, look, he's not a doctor.

[310] He's never served in the military.

[311] He is not British.

[312] The accent is fake.

[313] I kind of filled in holes in her.

[314] She binged the podcast.

[315] The important thing was how she tells her sister.

[316] We're going to call her sister Zara.

[317] She's like, I'm worried.

[318] How do I tell her all this stuff?

[319] I basically was like, look, I have all the documentation.

[320] There's more stuff than we cover on the podcast.

[321] I was like, I will share you access to the folder with all the information.

[322] I was like, how long have they been dating?

[323] And she's like a year and a half.

[324] I was like, well, back in February 2022.

[325] I got a call from a private investigator from one of his girlfriends.

[326] That's not your sister.

[327] So you're saying they've been dating since last year.

[328] He was obviously cheating on her, but this is just evidence for her.

[329] We did have a long talk.

[330] And I told her, it sounds like maybe the best way to do this might be for me to do it with you.

[331] I can't make that guarantee right now.

[332] I have to go talk to my partner about this because I want to make sure that he's okay with that.

[333] I went home and I talked to my boyfriend and was like, what do you think about this?

[334] I'm thinking the easiest way for this girl to process what she's hearing and know that it's the truth is to hear it from me. But I want to be conscious of your feelings.

[335] If this makes you uncomfortable, let's talk about that.

[336] He was just immediately, like, isn't that the whole reason you did the podcast was to, like, help other women in this position?

[337] And I was like, yes.

[338] He's like, then I guess the answer is pretty clear.

[339] I had called Stacey about this, because I often talk to her about a lot of this stuff.

[340] Stacey lives about two hours from me, where I would be meeting up with this woman would have been about an hour for me. So it was in between us an hour for both of us.

[341] and she volunteered to come up and do this intervention with me. It was really weird, though, because we were trying to figure out how to get her there without alerting him.

[342] We didn't want it to be something that he would know something was going down.

[343] Mary, she had driven up to her parents' house because Mary also lived two hours away.

[344] She'd called me on speakerphone with her mom there.

[345] So some of the advice I had given them was to have a cell phone ready.

[346] I said if she leave, she's going to need to shut down all her stuff.

[347] He's likely hacked into it and is tracking it.

[348] So she's going to have to not only change all her passwords, but you just want to get her like a new phone altogether, possibly a new laptop.

[349] But you can start with the phone, at least have that ready for her immediately.

[350] You want to make her feel safe, not judged, right?

[351] if she's worried about, you don't know if he's been making threats towards you guys or towards her, making her understand that there's safety there that she can rely on.

[352] And I said, but you also need to be prepared that she might not leave.

[353] And that has to be okay.

[354] She needs to not feel judged because if she decides to stay, at some point when she needs to leave, if she feels judge, she might wait a lot longer to actually leave.

[355] She doesn't want to prove you guys right, ensure she has your support no matter what.

[356] They're super nice.

[357] They were on board with all of that.

[358] So we met at this restaurant.

[359] Mary was there first with Zara.

[360] I waited about like 15 minutes after they went in to come in.

[361] And I sat down and was just like, hey, Mary reached out to me online.

[362] She found my story really interesting, thought you might also find it interesting, and she invited me to come and meet with you.

[363] Stacey was late because she was coming up after work, and so she hadn't gotten there yet.

[364] I just had to start on my own.

[365] I was really scared.

[366] I hadn't ever done this in person.

[367] It was weird and unusual for me. I really wanted her to hear how bad it was and not just completely shut down.

[368] So I was just like I met this guy online and I knew him as Artie.

[369] I think you know him as Kyle in 2020.

[370] Here's all the things I found out about him.

[371] I gave a quick laundry list of all of the things we covered on the podcast.

[372] I was like, I have paperwork for you so you don't have to believe me. You should actually read through everything and see for yourself.

[373] But I will say that I want to really emphasize that your sister came to me. I did not seek you out.

[374] I'm simply here trying to help your family because they've asked for my health because they are very concerned about what they know about him now.

[375] She wasn't upset.

[376] She just had this real blank look on her face, which she could have possibly been just in shock.

[377] She did talk to us.

[378] She would answer questions.

[379] her sister was like, we're concerned you're going to quit your job.

[380] And she's like, well, you know, I've been considering this for a while, actually.

[381] So that's still fine.

[382] Okay, that makes sense.

[383] And then we're like, well, what about like moving out of your place?

[384] She's like, I have these roommates and they're great, but they have a cat.

[385] I think it's time for me to be on my own.

[386] And the place is kind of messy and it smells like cat -bee.

[387] So it sounds like you needs some changes.

[388] And she's like, yeah, I think I had said something to the effect of, you know, he's probably got multiple girlfriends.

[389] They told her about the private investigator, the conversation in February.

[390] And she said, well, you know, when we first started dating, we weren't really exclusive.

[391] I was like, well, were you exclusive in February of 2020?

[392] Like earlier this year?

[393] And she's like, yeah.

[394] I was like, okay, well, he had another girlfriend.

[395] She was a little in denial.

[396] She denied him being abusive.

[397] She was really even reluctant to say that he verbally abused her.

[398] Even if that's true, he's still lying to you about his identity.

[399] He's faking the accent.

[400] He's lying about his profession.

[401] I know he's got girlfriends.

[402] I said, do you own the car that he drives?

[403] And she's like, I would never buy him a car.

[404] I'm like, I understand what you're saying.

[405] But I guarantee you, whoever's name is on that car is another girlfriend of his because he does not have cars in his name.

[406] We ended things like what to do next.

[407] At some point, Stacey did show up, and she added in her perspective, what had happened to her and everything.

[408] It was just a second validation of this is all facts.

[409] Let's say we just passed along the information.

[410] Like, he could easily just have brainwashed her to the point of being like, oh, it's just my ex.

[411] She's making shit up.

[412] That was the thing that I didn't want to happen.

[413] I thought by having two of us would better validate that this isn't some angry ex.

[414] to get vengeance and making stuff up.

[415] At the end of it, I asked, can I give you a hug?

[416] And she said yes.

[417] So we hugged goodbye, but she was like, I'm going to sit on this for a little bit until I figure out what to do.

[418] I'm like, okay, great.

[419] A couple days later, Mary messages me the address of where he supposedly lives.

[420] So this is the address that he has given to Zara, the one she's never seen in person.

[421] If you do like the Google Maps view of it, this place is like literally probably a $10 million home.

[422] My immediate reaction and response to Mary was, so let me get this straight.

[423] Zara thinks that he lives in a place like this, but he chooses to spend 90 % of his time at her apartment where another couple lives that's messy and smells like pee all the time.

[424] Am I getting this correct?

[425] And I'm like, no judgment.

[426] She's like, yep, I have made the same point.

[427] I would be mad at my partner if they lived in this house that looked like this.

[428] And we were spending all of our time in my apartment.

[429] We had met on the weekend.

[430] And so these texts are exchanged that week after.

[431] That following weekend is the weekend before my court date, which is on a Monday.

[432] I text Mary, hey, have you talked to your sister?

[433] Just want to see if She did this whole confrontation over the weekend.

[434] I'm headed into court the next morning.

[435] She's like, nope, I haven't heard from her.

[436] I don't think she's done it.

[437] The next morning is the court thing.

[438] And he's a no -show to this.

[439] But on the call, the court agrees to basically let us resubmit without his signature, which is a win for us.

[440] And so we're able to move forward with the custody.

[441] My lawyer calls me right after she's like, oh, he sent me like the nastiest email this morning.

[442] I just sort of chuckled and I said, oh, I think she did it over the weekend.

[443] And I told her about the intervention.

[444] And she's like, Danielle, keep fighting the good fight.

[445] He didn't show up to court because he was at the courthouse filing a restraining order against me. I later saw a copy of what he filed.

[446] And he basically tells the judge about the podcast.

[447] He's claiming I'm ruining his life and harassing him.

[448] I immediately text Mary and I say, hey, have you still not heard from Zara?

[449] She says, no. I said she definitely confronted him over the weekend.

[450] You need to get in contact with her because at this point it was a safety concern.

[451] Nobody's heard from her.

[452] So she literally drops what she's doing, drives the two hours up.

[453] She's like, I am on my way.

[454] Zara was not answering the phone.

[455] Mary had kept texting her.

[456] So she calls Zara.

[457] roommates and asked them if they know what's going on.

[458] She had not even told them that the person that was living there with them practically was, you know, what was going on.

[459] So they were not happy.

[460] Meanwhile, while she's driving up there, somehow she manages to get the VIN on his vehicle.

[461] She texts me at the VIN.

[462] She's like, do you know how to like run this?

[463] And I was like, well, let me see.

[464] I looked online a couple of places.

[465] They charge you and they don't even give you the owner.

[466] So I text the private investigator.

[467] I'm like, hey, I don't know if you remember me. Do you know if there's somewhere where I can run this?

[468] He's like, I will do it for you.

[469] I was like, great, let me know how much.

[470] He's like, no, I'll take care of this.

[471] Within the next hour, he texts me back the name and address of the registered owner of his vehicle.

[472] And I about fell over.

[473] It shouldn't have surprised me. But it was Darcy.

[474] Kenji knew all about the stuff going on.

[475] And from the beginning, he's like, we should find out who owns the vehicle.

[476] So I text him and I'm like, we ran the VIN and the owner is Darcy.

[477] He was so upset.

[478] He called her.

[479] She denied it.

[480] And to be clear, because we haven't touched on this, Kenji wasn't able to participate in the episodes.

[481] However, he has given Danielle consent to share what she is sharing, right?

[482] Correct.

[483] He was not happy to which I said to Kenji.

[484] The facts are the facts.

[485] This car belongs to her.

[486] How could you not know anything?

[487] You have to give your social security and your driver's license at the dealership in order to get a car.

[488] It clicked.

[489] He's like, you're right.

[490] She's lying.

[491] I was checking in with Mary.

[492] Long story short, what ended up happening is that somehow he found out that they had given me the VIN.

[493] So he broke up with her supposedly over this.

[494] I will say that in January of this year, I did text, marry a little happy New Year's.

[495] It would have been a couple months since all this went down.

[496] So I was like, hey, I wanted to make sure that Zara was good.

[497] Has he tried to like weasel his way back into her life?

[498] Or is she good?

[499] She said she's great, honestly.

[500] He's gone, gone.

[501] She's got a new boyfriend and she's doing great.

[502] And I was really, really happy to actually hear that.

[503] That was a happy ending.

[504] Darcy, she did reach out to Kenji.

[505] She wound up telling him, yes, I put the car in my name, but she did ask for his help in getting the car back.

[506] They went to get the car back.

[507] And at first, she wound up giving it back to him after they retrieved it.

[508] That's most likely because he made a bunch of threats against her.

[509] The second time, she decided to do it again.

[510] From what I understand, he went to the police station.

[511] He tried to file a police report against her for trying to get the car back.

[512] But it was in her name.

[513] And so he wound up having to actually hand over the vehicle.

[514] They tracked him down to get the car from an address and was yet another girlfriend there.

[515] That's really the last we've heard of his whereabouts.

[516] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[517] She had been under the influence and she left him there.

[518] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reid was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[519] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[520] What happens next?

[521] Depends on who you ask.

[522] Was it a crime of passion?

[523] If you believe the prosecution, it's because, the evidence was so compelling.

[524] This was clearly an intentional act.

[525] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[526] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[527] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[528] Everyone had an opinion.

[529] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[530] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[531] Law and Crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[532] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondry Plus.

[533] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[534] In February, so last month, I finally, after two years, got the signed court order of my custody agreement in place.

[535] the only thing that my lawyer got in response from Artie is tell your bitch -cunt client that I will never, ever agree to an adoption of my daughter.

[536] The one thing I will add is that in the court order, the court sort of summarizes the custody agreement and then puts in their orders.

[537] Everything was pretty much all the same, except for the custody piece.

[538] They added in a little extra there.

[539] they said that he must sign any paperwork related to an adoption and that if he does not give me an email address to notify him, that he waives his right for notification.

[540] And if I have to hire a private investigator to locate him in order to do whatever is necessary for this, that he must reimburse me for those expenses.

[541] I actually didn't even request that in my documentation.

[542] That was something that the court added in there.

[543] I would like to believe that after two years of all this nonsense, perhaps the judge or maybe their clerk is trying to redeem herself just a little bit here.

[544] Or they heard the podcast.

[545] That would be even better, wouldn't it?

[546] For society's sake, I absolutely do hope they had enlightenment and they're like, wow, we should be advocates because that's what this whole system is for.

[547] But maybe they heard the podcast.

[548] Where does that leave you emotionally, mentally update us on your status at the moment?

[549] How do you feel receiving that?

[550] It was like a real release.

[551] I couldn't do things like get her a passport.

[552] And there was always the risk that if he managed to show up to her school and get her, I would not get her back because I didn't have a legal document in place.

[553] stating that I was the legal parent.

[554] It was always risky, so it makes me feel great about that, great that I could get her a passport if I want to.

[555] I don't have these hurdles.

[556] I don't have to deal with this stuff anymore.

[557] Do you know how much money I have spent on my lawyer?

[558] It is insane, the amount of money that I have had to spend doing this.

[559] Now that money can go to a better cause, and maybe another vacation.

[560] I've had to work really, really hard to cover those financial costs.

[561] It also makes me realize you just get screwed if you can't pay for a lawyer.

[562] In the end, I'm the one who was able to get what was needed.

[563] He did not get what he wanted.

[564] I think that this part was just par for the course.

[565] When I was with him and I wanted to leave, I never imagined I would wind up where I'm at today, and that makes me incredibly grateful.

[566] I told my therapist at the time that let's say I decided to just walk away and leave.

[567] Let's even pretend he isn't this violent person like he claims to be, like he won't show up at my parents with a rifle.

[568] Let's just assume that doesn't happen, just for pure ponderance.

[569] I still have to co -parent with a man who controls me through, my daughter.

[570] And how do I do that?

[571] How do I ever have a life?

[572] How do I ever date again?

[573] Dealing with somebody who continues to control me, at least if I'm here, I can make the situation a little bit better.

[574] I could control a little bit more.

[575] I would try to keep the peace, right?

[576] It would be almost impossible for me to keep the peace if I decided to leave.

[577] He would never, ever let that stand.

[578] He would do everything in his power to take control, and I would have to co -parent with this man for the rest of my life.

[579] And who the hell wants to do with that?

[580] I really thought I'd be risking the safety of any future relationships.

[581] So in a way, justice did prevail.

[582] I think justice could have played out better in the courts.

[583] I think if there were real justice, he would be behind bars.

[584] But at least I get justice for me. And that is that I have custody of my daughter.

[585] He gets zero visitation.

[586] He has no rights.

[587] And I have an incredible relationship.

[588] At the end of the day, it's about keeping yourself safe and leaning on the support that you have.

[589] This feels like a new chapter.

[590] The rest of this chapter is going to have zero to do with Artie.

[591] I don't ever have to talk about him other than in the context of this podcast.

[592] Unless, of course, I get another poor sister or girlfriend looking for answers.

[593] And at that point, I will share the same information.

[594] Now, also, too, enough time is past that we can actually give people real updates about things because it takes time.

[595] We didn't have the way to wrap it up in a nice little beautiful bow for everybody when the season concluded.

[596] People had a lot of feelings about that.

[597] I hope they'll get some semblance of closure.

[598] Organizations like I can, they're specifically working to codify consent.

[599] And the thing is about his victims is none of you were able to properly consent to anything that sexually took place in your relationship because he used fraud to acquire it.

[600] It is so illegal.

[601] And until our laws change, we can't lock him up.

[602] Danielle, you hooked me up with the detective who handled the carjacking and then suspected that he was full of shit and he had contacted you.

[603] And I spoke with him and he's like, I wish I could get this guy.

[604] Unfortunately, he's one of those people that uses the things in the system that are created to actually protect domestic violence victims.

[605] He's used them to exploit the system.

[606] I'm just so proud of you.

[607] I'm so happy for you and your new boyfriend and your daughter and that you are just thriving and having a million jobs per usual and just like doing your thing.

[608] You're always like doing something fun.

[609] You're like, oh yeah, I'm going to be in a music video next weekend or oh yeah, I'm going to this like Reiki retreat or some shit in the woods.

[610] you're always doing some fabulous L .A. shit.

[611] You and Amy, I live through you.

[612] I feel like the mom and mean girls.

[613] You guys keep me so young.

[614] I'm actually working on a business plan with my boyfriend right now.

[615] I'm working on potentially opening a bakery.

[616] Of course you are.

[617] You're just such a badass.

[618] Amy and Daniel, I'm so thankful for you both and that the universe has put you both in my life.

[619] I look forward to all that's to come.

[620] Well, I'm equally as grateful for both of you.

[621] Tiffany, for wanting to grab onto my story, the insaneness of it and share it for everybody.

[622] And I'd like to believe that even just listening this past week, your latest victim that was sharing their story, Amelia.

[623] Amelia says that she listened to the podcast and she felt inspired to tell her story so that it could hopefully help others.

[624] To me, that's a lot of the podcast.

[625] To me, that's to win, right?

[626] Because I'm part of these stories that she listened to that gave her the courage to tell her story.

[627] I do feel like this is a tight little knit group of powerful women who lift each other up and I'm so honored to be a part of it.

[628] After the live event that we had for season 14, just to like share with the listeners, we had this amazing dinner and it was all of us from season 14 and Michael Kaylin's husband and Danielle's there and Lily from our internal teams there and Amy's there.

[629] I was so full of love and vibrations.

[630] I don't know how else to explain it.

[631] I'm sitting there looking around this table.

[632] Like, we fucking did that, y 'all.

[633] Now we get to all be a part of this community.

[634] And now Amy gets to help tell other people's stories.

[635] And Danielle, you continue to advocate and you continue to do all the badassery that you continue to do.

[636] And you're now a victim advocate for these victims trying to help the next person.

[637] It's women looking out for women.

[638] And I fucking love it.

[639] And I just love you guys.

[640] I love you both, too.

[641] I can't even describe how much you've done by sharing your story, especially at such a pivotal time in the show, to watch the show grow with your season, along with the advocacy efforts.

[642] I'm so honored to be a part of it.

[643] And Tiffany, thank you for doing this for all of us and for all of your listeners.

[644] It's just incredible.

[645] Thank you, Amy, too, for doing this and helping me to create this content and helping us continue to keep our community updated.

[646] It really speaks to how much we all love each other and support one another.

[647] People get so invested that they want updates and they just want to know you're good.

[648] They just want to know you're doing well and I love that.

[649] We're actually able to give that to them.

[650] I'm thankful that we're finally able to do it.

[651] We get to start bringing these kinds of episodes to the listeners.

[652] And if you guys are into these types of episodes, please go subscribe to what came next because going forward they may not be on this feed.

[653] They may be exclusively on the What Came Next feed.

[654] So if you are into update episodes, and I know 99 % of you voted yes on update episodes on my Instagram stories poll, go subscribe to What Came Next.

[655] You'll not only get to hear update episodes like this, but you'll also get to hear Amy's other incredible episodes with people in docu -series shows who are sharing through their own lens what came next for them after sharing their stories with the world.

[656] And if you're in need of any free confidential resources, I'm going to continue to plug it till the end of time because you guys, there's just so, so many good resources that are free and available to the public confidential.

[657] Something Was Wrong .com slash resources.

[658] If you want to chat, text, call with somebody who works for the National Domestic Violence Hotline or there's various other interpersonal violent, free counseling, free chat services online if anybody is in need and wants to make a safety plan to be able to effectively leave their relationship.

[659] They may not have family.

[660] They may not have support.

[661] And sadly, a lot of times predators and abusers love to separate people from their loved ones.

[662] No matter what support you have in your life, please know you're not alone.

[663] And there are resources to help.

[664] Thank you for amplifying those resources with your platform, Tiffany, and doing so much to change the way we have to navigate these systems.

[665] You're amazing.

[666] We're all doing it together.

[667] It's just amazing that every episode and every season that community continues to grow.

[668] And we all hear each other's stories and reach out and support.

[669] I love when I see people share their story on the podcast and then continue to listen and support the people who come next.

[670] Danielle and Amy are absolute examples of that and it's just very, very beautiful.

[671] Well, it's the thoughtfulness and what you're curating.

[672] It's hard not to be invested in it.

[673] You really are creating something special.

[674] What happens after the experiences of true crime survivors have been shared with the world?

[675] Does the media truly capture all entail to survive such tragedy in the public eye?

[676] What comes after the convictions are in?

[677] The cameras stop rolling and the court of public opinion has spoken.

[678] Can sharing our stories lead to justice?

[679] And is there ever really justice?

[680] These questions and many more are answered on the new true crime docu -series podcast, What Came Next?

[681] Co -created and produced by Something Was Wrongs, Tiffany Reese.

[682] With host, award -winning writer, victim -advocate, and true -crime survivor, Amy B. Chesler.

[683] This season on What Came Next, you'll hear firsthand accounts and behind -the -scenes insights about what came next for survivors of some of the world's most infamous crimes, such as Elisa Wall of Keep Sweet Pray and Obey.

[684] So much has been told about Warren Jeff's and the horrors inside of the cult.

[685] A lot hasn't been shown of life after and what it really takes to adapt.

[686] Jacoba Ballard from our father.

[687] I shouldn't have to hide a part of myself because I'm not ashamed of how I came here on this earth.

[688] Ron Schnackenberg of Dirty Money.

[689] This conversation is only the second conversation I've had on it, and it's only the second conversation where someone didn't offer me money.

[690] I didn't feel like it was a moral thing for me to benefit off of the backs of people that were defrauded.

[691] The vows, Sarah Edmondson.

[692] We woke up.

[693] We figured out what was going on enough to get the New York Times to write an article.

[694] about it.

[695] Call your Landry from a murder in Mansfield.

[696] I'm trying to answer a question that has haunted me my entire life.

[697] Why did you murder my mother?

[698] Dirty John's Tara Newell.

[699] There's all these people that don't believe me. Basically, screw you, it happened.

[700] I'm going to tell my story, and I'm not going to be shamed for it.

[701] PJ Maston from The Secrets of Playboy.

[702] It was very triggering, really hard to watch.

[703] And every week, we have to tune in to see what we see.

[704] Charlotte Laws of the most hated man on the internet.

[705] Whether it was media, politicians, law enforcement, or ordinary people, everybody was blaming the victims.

[706] So I ended up calling the FBI.

[707] Koa Johnson from the housewife and the Shawshocker.

[708] I will continue that healing process, even up to now where she's pled guilty.

[709] That's another step to healing and coming to a point of peace with myself.

[710] You'll hear how incredible survivors find purpose in adversity.

[711] and how they're leveraging the spotlight to elicit societal change.

[712] Subscribe now to what came next, wherever you get your podcasts.

[713] Thank you so much for listening.

[714] Until next time, stay safe, friends.

[715] Something Was Wrong is a broken cycle media production, created and hosted by me, Tiffany Reese.

[716] If you'd like to support the show further, you can share episodes with your loved ones, leave a positive review, or follow Something Was Wrong on Instagram.

[717] At Something Was Wrong podcast.

[718] Our theme song was composed by Gladrags.

[719] Check out their album, Wonder Under.

[720] Thank you so much.

[721] If you like Something Was Wrong, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[722] Prime members can listen ad -free on Amazon Music.

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