Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend XX
[0] Hi, my name is Michelle Obama, and I feel less cautious about being Conan O 'Brien's friend.
[1] Really?
[2] So, because when we first talked, you were cautiously optimistic.
[3] There's always a little hint of danger.
[4] You just said, never know what's going to happen.
[5] You never know what's going to happen.
[6] With my friend Conan.
[7] Ring the bell Brand new shoes Walking Blues Climb the fence Books and Pens I can tell that we are going to be friends Yes I can tell that we are going to be friends Hello Conan O 'Brien here Host of Conan O 'Brien Needs Friend My name's in the title Which means I get to host it Yeah I joined here by Of Cessian Hello Hi.
[8] And I am just back from the great city of San Francisco.
[9] Oh, really?
[10] How was it?
[11] I love San Francisco.
[12] Did you have a good time?
[13] Was it nice?
[14] Now I'm sensing some, is it anger, resentment?
[15] What happened here?
[16] We're pissed.
[17] Yeah.
[18] You're pissed because let me explain to our listeners.
[19] I was asked to go to San Francisco to assist former First Lady Michelle Obama with promotion.
[20] for her latest book, The Light We Carry, because no one can get the word out on a book like Conan O 'Brien.
[21] And so I went, and Mrs. Obama very kindly said that she would do our podcast while I was up there.
[22] So I thought I should take all necessary personnel with me. Yeah.
[23] So I took Eduardo.
[24] Eduardo, did you have a good time?
[25] It was good.
[26] You don't have to feel, O'Drano.
[27] You don't have to feel bad.
[28] You are necessary.
[29] This isn't your fault.
[30] No, it's not your fault.
[31] Eduardo, you came with me because you are an excellent sound engineer.
[32] Thank you.
[33] And Aaron Blayert, as or as I call you, Blay, you came along to...
[34] I did.
[35] Thanks for having me. Yeah, I don't even know what you did on the trip, to be honest with you.
[36] Yeah.
[37] Stop making mouth noises as a substitute for explanation.
[38] I don't know how to answer.
[39] I mean, I feel like I facilitate.
[40] I lubricate social lubricants.
[41] We shouldn't be mad at him.
[42] Yeah.
[43] I am.
[44] I don't.
[45] I think I did a brilliant thing, which is, I immediately identified, Paula Davis came along.
[46] Of course, Hooker extraordinaire.
[47] Adam was there too.
[48] Adam Sachs.
[49] Adam Sachs was there because I think Adam put it best when he said, I get to go.
[50] I think that's what he said.
[51] Is that all we have to do?
[52] He said, I get to go.
[53] Now, listen, no, you two were not invited along.
[54] We have to keep costs down.
[55] And you're expensive, Sona.
[56] You have all these demands when you travel.
[57] I am not expensive.
[58] You're very expensive.
[59] I think that you are ashamed of us a little bit.
[60] No, I'm not ashamed at all.
[61] I think what it is is he doesn't, he's afraid that we're going to charm Mrs. Obama too much and he doesn't want that tension taken off of him.
[62] You know what else I think?
[63] You know what else is, okay, we went to Milwaukee to interview her.
[64] Yeah.
[65] Then we did a Zoom interview, her second interview.
[66] Matt and I wrote at both of those.
[67] I know.
[68] Then you go to this third one and suddenly we're not there.
[69] She thinks you probably like fired us.
[70] I know.
[71] Well, first of all, to how should remember.
[72] remember you.
[73] Oh, she meets a lot of people.
[74] Also, we weren't invited to the Barack Obama session either.
[75] And now I'm starting to sense a pattern.
[76] It's making me real uncomfortable.
[77] But there is no pattern because we've been there for two of them.
[78] So this doesn't make any sense.
[79] What about the possibility that you've had your chances to hang with Michelle Obama?
[80] So have you.
[81] And that may be at, I'm the host of the thing.
[82] I know, but we could have gone and you could have stayed.
[83] Oh, yeah.
[84] That would have been a great conversation.
[85] Yeah.
[86] Oh, Mrs. Obama, tell us what you like about Cher.
[87] What does she like about Cher?
[88] What's your favorite flavor of edible?
[89] Finally, a fresh perspective.
[90] All the questions you asked have been unique and different.
[91] What did you shoplift when you were 24?
[92] Yes.
[93] Yes, these are the things people want to know.
[94] What did you ask her?
[95] Oh, how was it like growing up in the South Side of Chicago?
[96] Like, She hasn't been asked that like 10 ,000.
[97] I asked fascinating questions.
[98] I don't know.
[99] I just edited it this morning.
[100] And it was lacking a story.
[101] certain, let's say, Sona and Matt.
[102] Oh.
[103] What a terrific podcast we have where prior to the interview with Michelle Obama, you announced to the people who can decide whether or not they want to listen to it or not, it's lacking something.
[104] It is.
[105] It's lacking the two of us.
[106] What a screwy organization we have.
[107] I chuckle.
[108] He has his quips.
[109] You probably needed them.
[110] Yeah.
[111] I'm going to say that, well, I think we should ask Adam Sacks.
[112] Adam Sacks, you were there, and you're a fair man. Do you think this interview is worth people's time, Adam?
[113] That's a trick question.
[114] Do you?
[115] That's a trick question.
[116] Did you like the interview I had with Mrs. Obama?
[117] Because I think, I'm not going to kidding around, this is my favorite one of the ones we've done.
[118] And I like the other two a lot.
[119] Because I feel bad because I think that Matt and Sona do really add a hell of a lot to the podcast.
[120] Yeah, yeah, but are always great.
[121] And I think they would have been, they would not have taken away from the interview that you had with Mrs. Obama.
[122] They might have added something.
[123] But I also think it's true that this is the best conversation between the video.
[124] Yeah, it's a really good one.
[125] And I'll say something else, which you both have to remember, is that when you're talking to someone like Michelle Obama, who was the first lady of this nation for eight years, when you're talking to someone in that upper, upper, upper, upper, upper, upper echelon background checks are involved.
[126] And I, goarly, to be fair, I think you are probably involved with the John Birch Society sometime in the late.
[127] late 80s.
[128] There was some weird whatever.
[129] You've got some weird skeletons in your closet.
[130] I'm more liberal than you you, you're, I don't know what John Birch decided.
[131] You were arrested once with three ventriloquist dummies and you were in the park.
[132] Now that is true.
[133] Exactly.
[134] It was, listen these are background checks.
[135] Excuse me. What's that?
[136] What'd you say?
[137] Would you say?
[138] Would you say it was fucking them?
[139] What did you say?
[140] I was romancing them before I bet on.
[141] This is a Michelle Obama podcast.
[142] Why can't you hold it together?
[143] That's why I said it quietly.
[144] Oh yeah, into an expensive microphone.
[145] Yeah.
[146] That's designed to catch the sound of cells dividing and you have to go there with that.
[147] He was in the park.
[148] Yeah, all right, and that always means he's fucking homes.
[149] Stop it.
[150] For the record, I was not fucking them.
[151] I was making love to them.
[152] There's a huge difference.
[153] He always buys him wine first.
[154] Jesus Christ.
[155] Now, and Sonet, you know, you know that you would not survive a background check.
[156] You're in this country illegally.
[157] You've done all kinds of stuff.
[158] No, we've, first, we've met her.
[159] Yeah, we've already been checked.
[160] We've already met her.
[161] We've been vetted.
[162] Yeah.
[163] So you didn't take us for no reason.
[164] She got better background check people.
[165] Oh, better than what?
[166] Yeah, the first two times she was on the show, she was dealing with a really bad background check organization.
[167] And she was always talking to the wrong people.
[168] And it was bad.
[169] She was doing them herself.
[170] Yeah.
[171] She's just Google searching us.
[172] Checking people out.
[173] Yeah.
[174] And so anyway, no, this was, I'm sorry that you guys couldn't be there.
[175] Oh, you're not.
[176] No, you're not.
[177] No, I follow.
[178] And listen, I have to follow, you know, Adam has very strict dictates about keeping things.
[179] This is your fault?
[180] No, I would have loved for you guys to be there.
[181] Oh, wow.
[182] Okay.
[183] All right.
[184] I just, it's an important.
[185] Conan said no. It's an important interview.
[186] and it has to go just right.
[187] And, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me?
[188] And you are, I'm sorry, Matt, you're a loose canon.
[189] And this one brings up ventriloquist fucking every 10 minutes.
[190] I can't have it.
[191] You brought up ventriloquist dummies.
[192] And when we first went to - I said ventriloquist dummies.
[193] And we know what you implied.
[194] That's soda.
[195] No. That's Sona.
[196] Don't say, oh, you brought up ventriloquist dummies.
[197] So therefore, you're a monster.
[198] That's what you meant.
[199] And when we went out the first time to Milwaukee, we were model co -hosts or sidekicks.
[200] We barely peeped up at all.
[201] To be fair, you've gotten more comfortable, though, and that's a risk.
[202] Is that what it was?
[203] Yes, yeah.
[204] And you know what?
[205] That's a risk.
[206] Hold it.
[207] To pick up where Adam is coming from, and this is true, Matt.
[208] You are not the same guy that went to Milwaukee.
[209] You were very buttoned down and professional then.
[210] You love getting the laughs, the chuckles.
[211] You'll say the aberrant, errant quip every now and then.
[212] and we all love you for it, but I cannot have that kind of behavior around Michelle Obama.
[213] I would never, ever.
[214] Oh, please.
[215] Are you kidding?
[216] Why are you keeping us from the Obama's, though?
[217] Seriously.
[218] What is it?
[219] Why don't you let us?
[220] Why can't you let us?
[221] I think there's a chance if I play my cards right that I could get into the Obama in a circle.
[222] Oh, no. That's never going to.
[223] And be invited like, you know, when they're getting together with their best friends from Chicago, from those days, like their best, best, best friends that I'm there too.
[224] Now, you call that delusional if you want, but this is the long game and I can't take a chance on you two idiots.
[225] I just can't.
[226] You're out of control, Sona, and Gourley, I know that you have some horrible, horrible skeletons in your closet.
[227] I can't prove it, but I can't take the risk.
[228] I just don't know what we should say is should we just branch out on our own?
[229] Yeah.
[230] I think that me and, you know what?
[231] Me and Matt, we're going to start booking our own Conan O 'Brien Needs a friend episode.
[232] With Melania Trump.
[233] When, yeah, we're going to just do it without you because we really do need his name.
[234] I think that if...
[235] Well, still, yeah, we'll still use the name.
[236] All right, listen, listen, if you feel badly, I'm sorry, and next time I'll get you on board.
[237] No, you won't.
[238] I will.
[239] No, you won't.
[240] I didn't say, I mean, I will.
[241] I really will.
[242] And you can hear it in my voice.
[243] and I'm really going to do it.
[244] And we know how to be behaved when the guest demands it, you know?
[245] Okay.
[246] Well, all right.
[247] Yeah.
[248] I just, you know, I can, you guys, I can trust you like around Sarah Silverman, but that's it, you know?
[249] You know what I mean?
[250] But what about you?
[251] Yeah.
[252] You can't be trusted.
[253] Yeah.
[254] You, of all, people, shouldn't be talking to the first lady.
[255] I agree with you.
[256] I agree with you 100%, but that's the way it went down.
[257] All right.
[258] And I blame the Obamas for their poor decisions.
[259] Oh, man. They need to raise their podcast bar.
[260] Anyway, I did miss you guys.
[261] No, you didn't.
[262] Okay, leave it alone.
[263] You're trying to wrap it up and you're saying things that are all false.
[264] Glad it didn't bring you.
[265] Yeah.
[266] It went so well, which you're about to hear.
[267] Refreshing.
[268] What you're about to hear is free of, you know, it's like you guys are the pulp in the orange juice.
[269] And some people don't want the pulp.
[270] This is just beautiful, clear, wonderful, pope -free orange juice.
[271] Clear.
[272] My guest today, come on, let's pull it together.
[273] My guest today is a former First Lady, best -filling author of the 2018 memoir, becoming her latest book, The Light We Carry, Overcoming in Uncertain Times, is available now.
[274] I'm very honored she's with us today.
[275] Michelle Obama, welcome.
[276] The word on the street, Conan's nothing but trouble.
[277] I gave a speech once years ago at Dartmouth, and the first President Bush was there.
[278] He was long out of office, and actually you and President Obama were in office at the time.
[279] But I gave a speech, and he was there, and Barbara Bush was there, the first lady.
[280] And just before I got up to give my speech, she looked at me, and all she knew is he's some comedian from television.
[281] And she looked at me, and she said, you behave.
[282] So I got up and gave a very, I was a very respectful introduction to the president, and I, the former president, and I didn't, and I did behave.
[283] And she was quite pleased.
[284] And afterwards, my mother went up to her and said, I've been telling him that for 40 years.
[285] He never listened to me. But Barbara Bush looks you in the, you know, when any first lady, she has a way.
[286] She has a way.
[287] Barbara Bush had that tone.
[288] Yes.
[289] Yeah.
[290] You know, it felt like She was going to pull your ear afterwards if it didn't happen.
[291] So you thought, no, I'm not going to risk being yanked by.
[292] I am not going to cross this woman.
[293] That's like lower side pinch that mothers do or under the arm.
[294] Oh, is that what you got?
[295] Did you get under the arm?
[296] I would do that.
[297] I didn't get it, but sometimes I would give it.
[298] The girl still reminisce about some of those moments where you, you know, you got the kind of come here.
[299] I said, you know, your teeth are kind of gritty and you don't want to show that there's abuse happening.
[300] but there's a little pinch.
[301] And they talk about how they go, oh, mom.
[302] I was like, you, be quiet.
[303] We're in public.
[304] I used to, my son used to be this fun little boy, and I would wrestle and toss him all around the room.
[305] During COVID, he grew to six feet, three and a half inches, and he's much stronger than me. I come home, and he just throws me against the wall.
[306] Really?
[307] I would love to see that.
[308] I really would.
[309] Is it like an immediate attack?
[310] It's an immediate attack.
[311] I'd like to, let's just quickly recap.
[312] You said I reek of danger and you'd like to see me beaten.
[313] These are the things that you've said so far.
[314] This isn't bode well for me. No, you're taking it all out of context.
[315] No, I'm really not.
[316] I say I said those things exactly.
[317] You know, it's funny.
[318] It just occurred to me because I was talking to your people because you've got people now.
[319] I do.
[320] I've always had people.
[321] You've always had people.
[322] Yeah.
[323] Well, you've got more people now.
[324] I don't have many people.
[325] I think I have less people than when I was in the White House.
[326] Really?
[327] Because we're now paying for the people.
[328] So they're less of them.
[329] I know for sure.
[330] So the minute it's on your dime, it's far fewer people.
[331] Same amount of work, fewer people.
[332] But anyway, yes, I do have people.
[333] And so what did they say to you, the people?
[334] No, just before we got started here, they were recounting, because I was curious about your book tour and they were telling me, played this giant hall.
[335] two nights ago, three nights before that, this city, that city, flying, flying, and it occurred to me, you're in show business.
[336] Is it?
[337] And it's impressive.
[338] Like, you're selling out, you know, giant halls.
[339] And it is, I don't know how you feel about it.
[340] Are you enjoying it?
[341] Because your first tour was such a hit.
[342] It was, yeah.
[343] Yeah.
[344] I mean, this, I enjoy it because this is really how I can interact with people in kind of a, you know, It's like Secret Service won't let me in a crowd that sides if everybody's not seated and ticketed.
[345] So it's actually, for me, I need people's energy, you know, and for the last few years, because of quarantine, none of us had it.
[346] You know, at the end of last book tour, you know, that's right after that, right after all those arena tours, all those people, all the community events.
[347] As I wrote, that's when quarantine happened.
[348] And we went from all of that energy and all the hugging and loving to years of uncertainty and isolation.
[349] And I'm like everybody.
[350] It's like I need to be around people and be reminded of why this country is good.
[351] Yeah.
[352] And those kind of places, the theaters that we're in, it's like when you lead with goodness, you know, it shows up.
[353] It responds.
[354] People respond to that.
[355] I find if I'm like a lot of us watching the news, I can get very down, very depressed, because we all know that the news needs to be negative.
[356] It's almost like there's an algorithm that says if it's negative, it's got to be on the news.
[357] And just what you're talking about, I find that if I can get out and see people.
[358] Now, even if it's people I don't agree with who don't vote the way that I vote or have different beliefs, I still like to talk to people and I feel better.
[359] I feel connected, which is I think what you're...
[360] That's exactly it.
[361] Because, you know, one phrase I say, it's harder to hate up close.
[362] Yeah.
[363] And when you're with people looking at them in the eye, and I found this all throughout the eight years in the White House campaigning, even if I was in a town that was not supporting my husband, people are still courteous, you know?
[364] And if you're ready to be vulnerable and start sharing some of yourself, you slowly get their walls to come down, you know, because they're judging us from a distance, too.
[365] But then when you get there and you start talking about the things you have in common, your family, you know, your upbringing.
[366] Well, that's huge too.
[367] Family, and if you reveal, and this gets me into your book, if you reveal insecurities to people, there's a common philosophy or a first assumption that if you reveal an insecurity, you're weakening yourself.
[368] And in my experience, if you reveal an insecurity, you strengthen the bond with the other person because you're allowing them to see the real you.
[369] And it's this kind of magical trick that I don't think is discussed enough.
[370] And it's, I'll tell you this.
[371] I read, I read your first book and I loved it.
[372] I read The Light We Carry.
[373] And when I finish this book, and I've also read, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, your husband's book.
[374] I'm always nervous about the correct phrasing, the president's book.
[375] Him.
[376] Him.
[377] That guy.
[378] That guy.
[379] As you said to me once, when I was hosting, when I was going to perform at the White House correspondence dinner, and you and I are sitting together.
[380] And you were very so nice to me because it's such a crazy nerve -wracking thing.
[381] And you were so nice to me. And we were chatting.
[382] And then you said something about the president.
[383] And well, he thinks that when, you know, he said, here's what's going to happen after we leave office.
[384] And he's, here's where we're going to go, and here's what we're going to do.
[385] And this is what we in the kids have decide.
[386] And she says, now that guy may have different ideas, but that guy doesn't know the score.
[387] And I said, that guy is the president of the United States.
[388] I just love that you've earned the right to call him that guy.
[389] And he doesn't really know what he was talking about.
[390] He thought he had to say.
[391] But we just sort of let that guy believe that he has some power in his household.
[392] It's like, just let him, just let him talk.
[393] Yeah.
[394] Yeah.
[395] No, my wife does that.
[396] She lets me think that I'm making big decisions.
[397] And then I noticed, this isn't where I said we were going to vacation.
[398] I never said, this town.
[399] Huh.
[400] Well, I guess we are skiing after all.
[401] And I'm enjoying it.
[402] It's actually nice.
[403] But yeah.
[404] But what I've found about your book, which is so nice and different, I think, than the first book, is that you're addressing something that I talk about a lot on this podcast, which is there is a common misconception that people.
[405] people who are in your position, or to a much lesser degree, my position, people that are known that we don't have anxieties, we don't have issues.
[406] And you have some revelations in the book, which I think you're going to help a lot of people.
[407] Because one of your, early in the book, you talk about this terrible fear, you had this anxiety about just before your first book came out and your self -doubts and you're going to put yourself out there and it ends with am I good enough?
[408] And I read it and it occurred to me, this is 2018.
[409] You've already been the First Lady of the United States for eight years.
[410] You're not saying this, well, it was 1984, 1985.
[411] I was nervous.
[412] This is 2018.
[413] You're feeling all of that.
[414] And I felt that way before this book came out too.
[415] I mean, we practice those messages.
[416] We all do, you know, especially if you're different, you know, tall, black woman.
[417] We're raised in a society where we're constantly questioning, are we good enough?
[418] That question is planted in us.
[419] Right.
[420] So what I'm revealing to people is that it was planted in me too.
[421] And it's a thing that I continuously struggle with.
[422] And it's interesting, because you struggle with it now, it's going to be with you.
[423] the whole, you know, for the whole ride, you know, my text to my wife just before I came in here today was, well, I'm going to go and, uh, talk to Ms. Obama again on the, on the podcast and, you know, feeling some anxiety.
[424] And she wrote back, what?
[425] What are you talking about?
[426] Um, and you couldn't be an easier person to talk to, but it is practically, uh, and in your book, you talk about how, I think you quote Lynn Manuel Miranda, you say it's kind of necessary to be anxious.
[427] That's right.
[428] Well, and I talk in the book about I've learned how to be, as a tool, how to be comfortably afraid, that fear is always there.
[429] It's an emotion that we need because oftentimes it keeps us safe.
[430] It keeps us out of trouble.
[431] I also explore the fact that when we don't learn how to decode it and how to manage it, it can also keep us stuck, stuck in our sameness and our isolation, not just stuck from moving from one point to the next, but it keeps us stuck with the same people, the people who make us comfortable, the same ideas.
[432] And that's a dangerous place to be.
[433] But when you're like us, I would say, people who constantly push themselves outside of their comfort zone, it's not that the fear goes away.
[434] You just learn how to be comfortable in that ride that you're going to take.
[435] And as Lynn said, I wrote about, he said he used that fear as rocket fuel.
[436] And you learn how to manage the rocket, you know.
[437] If you don't ride it well, it can, you can crash into the sea, you know.
[438] Yeah.
[439] But if you learn how to go with it and manage it, it can take you to the moon.
[440] I tell my daughter, who's a lot like me, I tell her, and she's a freshman in college, And I tell her, you know, she'll get very intense about, I've got this paper, I've got this test.
[441] And I, since she was a little girl, I've been talking to her about her worry brain.
[442] Yeah.
[443] I'll say, Nev. Her fearful mind, as I call it.
[444] Yeah, you call it fearful mind.
[445] And I always call it to her worry brain.
[446] And I said, Nev, bad news is you got my worry brain.
[447] And that's my, that's on me. Your mom doesn't have it, but I have it.
[448] You've got the worry brain.
[449] So what you need to do is you need to look at the user's manual that came with you.
[450] and that's my way of looking at it.
[451] Go to Section 3.
[452] You know, and I was explaining this to someone, and they told me, oh, this is a very, they had a name for it in psychology where you, you remove, you act as if your mind is something outside of you, you look at it from a distance.
[453] And I told her, you've got to look at the manual.
[454] And the manual says the Nev Ellis Powell O 'Brien is an amazing machine and they can do all these great things.
[455] Sometimes runs hot.
[456] in these situations.
[457] Right, right.
[458] And when that happens...
[459] Press eject.
[460] I haven't said that, but I like that.
[461] Right.
[462] But this is, you know, what you're doing with Nev is what a lot of us don't do in our parenting.
[463] Like, we don't help our kids, especially these days, practice their way through, their fear, their anxiety.
[464] Our generation of parents, we try to prevent them from feeling it at all.
[465] Yeah.
[466] You know, that's the helicopter.
[467] part of it.
[468] Yes.
[469] And I talk about how my mother and father deliberately tried to push us towards fear, or push us through the fear, because they knew what it looked like to be stuck in your sameness, stuck in your difference.
[470] And the tool that I'm offering parents is just that.
[471] Our kids should learn how to live in anxiety.
[472] We shouldn't try to stop them from feeling it.
[473] Just like we can't stop them from feeling failure because they have to learn how to practice through it.
[474] And I think, you know, outside of the kids who are dealing with real serious mental health issues, a lot of the problem is that we are overparenting them.
[475] We don't want them to feel any fear because it makes us feel bad.
[476] So we step in and we try to fix it.
[477] So they never learn how to practice their way through it to get used to it.
[478] I remember when Sasha was, she had to be in, not even in middle school.
[479] And she had, you know, I'm on alert for every sign of anything that was going wrong with the girls because I was like, I don't want this experience to screw them up, right?
[480] Which is a legitimate fear in a, because they're in a fishbowl.
[481] In a fishbowl and odd situation, something Barack and I never experienced.
[482] So we're constantly managing our parenting.
[483] So she comes to me and she's like, mom, I'm feeling anxiety.
[484] And I'm thinking, whoa, whoa, big word for, you know.
[485] sixth grader.
[486] I was like, well, tell me what's going on.
[487] Sit down.
[488] And she basically describes the fact that she gets anxious when she hasn't done her homework, when she has a test, you know, when she's procrastinated.
[489] I was like, well, you know, you're supposed to have those feelings, you know, that you don't get medication because the immediate response in the culture she was in was maybe I need medication.
[490] And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. You have to learn.
[491] If you don't want to feel that kind of anxiety, then go to bed on time.
[492] do your homework on time.
[493] You know, you have to work your way through that.
[494] And sometimes as parents, because we just don't want our kids to suffer any failing.
[495] We stop those emotions from happening.
[496] And the thing that happens is that the first time your kid has to deal with anxiety, they're 30 years old.
[497] They're out of your house.
[498] And you do not want your child to be practicing learning how to deal with their anxiety when they're in their 30s or in their 20s or after they graduate from college.
[499] So what you're doing with Nev is that you're giving her some tools to help talk her through what are natural emotions that we all have to deal with.
[500] We all feel fear.
[501] We all feel anxious.
[502] It's a part of the human experience.
[503] I think that's why so many of us struggled with quarantine and COVID and where the news is because we don't like uncertainty.
[504] But uncertainty is baked into the human experience.
[505] There's no way around it, you know?
[506] Life is unfair and it is uncertain.
[507] So let's stop trying to not feel that stuff.
[508] And now let's work on developing our tools, identifying the tools we have to get through this stuff.
[509] And that's what led to the writing of this book because I'm sharing my tools.
[510] Right.
[511] You know, and I don't think I help anybody by pretending I'm the Michelle Obama that never fails, that never does anything wrong.
[512] I think that's an unfair thing to do as a model, especially young people.
[513] Right.
[514] Because they naturally look at us up here and are, you know, out in the public, always looking good, flawless hair done, speaking perfectly, making people laugh.
[515] And they think it's never been hard for them.
[516] Right.
[517] And I want kids to see all my hard, all my flaws, all my broken, you know, so that they know you two can get here.
[518] This is not a perfect path.
[519] No, no one has it.
[520] And I think we do kids with social media.
[521] this, you know, era of whitewashing ourselves, these perfect, perfect pictures, these images of celebrities all done up and lit just perfectly before they post.
[522] It's drive, it will drive our young people insane to think that that's what life is.
[523] I've made it a mission in life to never have a good picture of me out there.
[524] Are you succeeding?
[525] I am, I'm killing it.
[526] There's never any makeup.
[527] I often look drunk.
[528] That's the way that I'm contributing.
[529] You're doing it through these thoughtful, thoughtful writings and really, you know, brilliant thoughts, and I'm doing it my way.
[530] Right.
[531] That's in your way.
[532] I don't have a shirt on in a bunch of them.
[533] I don't work out.
[534] He's wearing a shirt now.
[535] Yeah, I am wearing a shirt.
[536] Just so you know.
[537] It's fully, fully dressed.
[538] And he's not drunk.
[539] Wait a minute.
[540] You don't know.
[541] I was done.
[542] I was done.
[543] There's a bar down there.
[544] I heard.
[545] I heard.
[546] A friend of mine saw you in the bar.
[547] I like to start it at noon.
[548] It's a good time to get going.
[549] It is funny because when I finished this second book of yours and having read now all three books, both that you've done, and you're lapping your husband, by the way.
[550] That guy's got to get a go.
[551] That guy.
[552] He's written one.
[553] You've written two.
[554] He wrote half of one technically.
[555] There you go.
[556] You're keeping up.
[557] You know, that's what he'd say.
[558] I'd have half of a book out there.
[559] He would.
[560] He would.
[561] He would correct me very.
[562] quickly.
[563] But I finished this book and I thought, I'm a lot more like Mrs. Obama than I am like the president because he's got this, the times I've been around him and he did the podcast and the many times that I've had a chance to chat with him.
[564] He's got this inner calm that I don't have.
[565] I notice it the minute I meet someone.
[566] It doesn't matter if he's the president or not the president to be a gas station attendant i just know it when i meet them they have it i don't and in your book you're talking about a lot of the things that tools that i found i have different names for them but they're pretty much what you're talking about like you have a rule which is just keep it small keep it simple um you know during uh covid and and all the anxiety you started getting into knitting yeah and i did a very similar thing during COVID, I made a model airplane.
[567] Just one?
[568] Don't say just one.
[569] You know, I thought it was like more of it.
[570] It's just, I made a model airplane.
[571] Do you know how many sweaters and blankets I've knitted?
[572] Like, I'm laughing you in my hobby.
[573] Okay, yeah, no, and I shouldn't.
[574] You shouldn't, I mean.
[575] I saw the picture of it.
[576] It is made of balsawood.
[577] It was a kit that was from like the 1940s that I found somewhere.
[578] it took months to make this thing.
[579] And I was putting on a mask and going into the valley to a, and I don't make models.
[580] I don't even do it.
[581] I was possessed.
[582] What made you go to the model airplane?
[583] I mean, what?
[584] I don't know.
[585] I have no idea, but I wanted, I suddenly thought I need to build something.
[586] And this kit that someone had given me a long time ago that I thought, I'm never going to build that.
[587] I said, I'm going to build this World War I, Balsawood, giant complicated plane.
[588] And I don't have any of the tools to do it.
[589] So I found a place where I could go wearing a mask and buy different glues and stuff.
[590] It's the nerdiest thing I've ever done.
[591] And that's really saying something.
[592] Because I am, you know, like you said, we have gotten away from creating things with our hands.
[593] Yeah.
[594] We are now of that culture where the less, the better, You know, you punch a thing, swipe across a screen, and everything is there.
[595] And I think that there is something meditative and soothing, and it's something that we as humans need.
[596] We were makers.
[597] We've always been makers.
[598] And I think we're restless in that, you know, because everything is so quick and ready for us.
[599] So we're not working.
[600] So we have a lot of idle time to worry and be anxious over things when we should be, when normally, we would be chopping wood for the fire, right?
[601] We'd be collecting twigs.
[602] We'd have to go hunt and kill and skin an animal.
[603] You don't have time to be anxious about the evening news or to overthink everything because you're busy and your mind shuts off.
[604] That worrying mind, as I call it, it just quiets when you're engaged in something with your hands that requires you to do nothing but focus on the thing in your lap.
[605] Right.
[606] And that, to me, was so clarifying, you know, that the process of a knit and a pearl stitch, a pearl in a knit stitch, a row after a row, and the satisfaction of completing a thing.
[607] Now, what were you knitting?
[608] Tell me some of the things you were knitting.
[609] Well, over the, well, I started with the anything rectangular, so lots of blankets, right?
[610] Because as you're learning, you're just practicing getting your rows straight.
[611] So just big rectangles.
[612] Big rectangles.
[613] but then, uh -huh, I moved to hats.
[614] Oh.
[615] And eventually I moved to cardigan sweaters.
[616] You make cardigans?
[617] I have made two baby cardigan sweaters and a cardigan for my mom.
[618] I made a crew neck sweater for Barack.
[619] So I'm actually now know how to make a sweater, you know.
[620] Would you ever put these on Etsy?
[621] Were we going to see these anywhere?
[622] People have asked, my staff has been like, well, you know we can make so much money.
[623] And I was like, but see, then it's not a hobby.
[624] Now it's now because when I first started doing it, I did it the Michelle Obama way.
[625] I over did.
[626] I knitted something for everybody.
[627] Pillows.
[628] Everybody got a gift for Christmas.
[629] And I was knitting like I was Santa's elf.
[630] You know, Barack would come and it's like, are you okay in there?
[631] It's like, I got to finish the blanket.
[632] It's almost Christmas Eve.
[633] And so I took it overboard, right?
[634] So now I'm trying to weave myself.
[635] I'm trying to pull it back a little bit.
[636] But that's that that's my person.
[637] type.
[638] It's like, if I'm going to do it, I'm not going to build one model airplane.
[639] Okay.
[640] Again.
[641] I'm going to build seven.
[642] Again, we're going to edit this later so that you're far more complimentary.
[643] We're going to hire an actress who sounds a lot like you to do a dub and say, that's so amazing.
[644] I mean, one, just finishing one is enough.
[645] And you'll, it'll get back to you that we did this.
[646] And you'll be like, oh, that's just sad.
[647] Um, no, it's, it's, but the going small is, I think it's one of the most important tools that I can share with young people to once again.
[648] Yeah.
[649] Because I write about how this generation, you know, with this constant negative news and the worry about everything, they're always on their phones, they're getting too much information.
[650] The young people I run into are worried.
[651] They are worried about the world.
[652] All of them.
[653] They're worried about climate change.
[654] They weren't about crime in their neighborhoods.
[655] And they're young thinking about ways to fix everything.
[656] right you know and they wear themselves out what's paralyzing it's paralyzing totally paralyzing when the thing they need to do is focus what's focus on your knitting yeah all you can do at 12 15 is go to school yeah go to class finish your homework you know start there because that's the the stitch those are the stitches you put together and if you don't put each of those stitches together you will never be help of help to anyone.
[657] Yeah.
[658] Because you will flame out.
[659] You will never graduate.
[660] You won't learn how to write.
[661] You won't know.
[662] So you're trying to take on these big problems that are too big for the power that you have.
[663] But you do have power to control the thing you can.
[664] That's why I say when I got into the White House, when people asked me what I, what was going to be my agenda, I said, well, my first focus is going to be mom in chief, you know, because I have to make sure that the kids I'm in charge of are good before I can help anybody else's kids.
[665] And I got criticized by feminists about that, like, mom and chief.
[666] And I was like, well, of course I'm going to do everything else.
[667] That was a given.
[668] I know how to work.
[669] I know how to be a professional.
[670] I knew, you know, but I thought it was an important thing to say, I have to control what I can.
[671] I brought these two kids in the world.
[672] I have to be a good mother to them before I can help anybody.
[673] you know but we're we so make great the enemy of the good we so you know want to fix climate change that we don't even vote you know we want a democracy but we can't be bothered to do the one thing we actually control which is go to the poll one day every now and then and push a couple of buttons but we want everything to be fixed because we think big is better and what i find is that small is where change happens.
[674] That's the monotonous everyday stitch, the glue on the propeller.
[675] Thank you.
[676] Now you reel me back in.
[677] The little thing you can do and there's satisfaction in completing that small thing that keeps you going for the next thing.
[678] So another tool that I had in that small thing is you're feeling anxious.
[679] The first thing is wake up every day.
[680] Just focus on waking up.
[681] Set your alarm.
[682] Get up every day.
[683] Take a shower.
[684] Brush your teeth.
[685] Do it again tomorrow and eat something and then move your body.
[686] It's like you will work yourself if you're not dealing with deeper depression issues.
[687] But the vast majority of people can slowly with small steps.
[688] At least I find that I do that.
[689] I can work my way into a more positive response because I just feel better.
[690] I feel better being awake.
[691] I feel better when I'm clean.
[692] These aren't big huge things.
[693] that you're trying to tackle.
[694] This is just one stitch at a time.
[695] When my son was much younger, he was at the Warner Brothers lot and he was visiting me and I took him to get lunch and he had a total meltdown.
[696] He was small enough that I could carry him and I had to pick him up in front of everybody and he was having a total, I hate you, meltdown.
[697] And I took him back to my office and I sat him down.
[698] He's red face crying and I said, breathe.
[699] Don't talk.
[700] Eat this banana.
[701] And he looked at me and I said, we will discuss this in 10 minutes.
[702] And he sat there quietly eating this banana while I was doing my work at my desk.
[703] And after 10 minutes, he went, well, I do feel so much better.
[704] Why, they're a father?
[705] A father.
[706] This banana is extraordinary.
[707] It's like, who was that animal that was screaming just a few minutes ago?
[708] Did you hear that shrieking?
[709] Oh, it was so embarrassing.
[710] But it is really funny to me that, um, I, think that is something that comes with.
[711] There are these tools you can use as a parent or you find yourself using as a parent that you realize, wait, these also work on me. Yeah.
[712] And I have to remember this or it works with my wife or my wife will tell me you need to take a walk.
[713] You need to get your heart rate up.
[714] Yep.
[715] Then you need to eat a banana.
[716] That's right.
[717] And don't talk to me ever again.
[718] And that's really worked.
[719] And it works.
[720] This, you know, one thing that you're going through, when you walked in the room, you said, how are you doing?
[721] And I said, we should talk on Mike because I know you've gone through this and I've not yet, but my daughter is in college, my son's a junior in high school, but we're getting close to that emptiness time.
[722] I know.
[723] And here's the thing, my paranoia is every now and then I see when you have kids, as you know, it's all hands on deck.
[724] And just like you guys, we had two and they're two years apart and we're, in it and everything is about them and it's it it binds you as a couple and then i see my daughter's becoming more and more independent my son is too and he's out driving and then he's going to leave and every now and then i think i see my wife looking at me and going now what about that guy maybe we could uh you we shouldn't say ew okay you're going to edit that out too we're not going to we're going to edit that out we're going to edit we're going to have the actress who plays you go wow look at that guy That's a lot of man right there.
[725] No, but you do.
[726] You have this feeling of, I mean, I know I'm being silly, but at the same time, I think, you know, I wouldn't blame her for saying, I think it's time to level up in that.
[727] It's like, I've just been putting up with you because you were the father of my offspring.
[728] Yes.
[729] Now I have no use.
[730] Now I'm going to eat you a lot.
[731] Exactly.
[732] It literally demolish you.
[733] So I don't know.
[734] how is, how is your husband handling it?
[735] Here, it's interesting because I, I would wonder how your wife feels.
[736] Like, you feel a sense of dread, right?
[737] Because it's like these two are leaving and I'm going to miss them and you da -da -da -da -da.
[738] I bet she's feeling like, bye, get out of my house.
[739] I'm, I can't wait for you to go.
[740] And I love my kids, right?
[741] What sure sounds like it.
[742] I do.
[743] I do really love them.
[744] I can't wait until I don't.
[745] have to see you again.
[746] But here's the thing, parenting when you are the primary parent, you know, and I have a very involved husband, really, truly.
[747] But I'm still the primary parent.
[748] I'm the one that manages the weekend, right?
[749] And the weekends with teenagers is just all hands on deck.
[750] It's like what party, who's going, are you dropping off?
[751] And, you know, there's always a thing, right?
[752] And that's what it's been for the last 20 some odd years.
[753] Me and these two, I've had so much quality time with them.
[754] They have, you know, that I am, I am ready for them to go.
[755] I'm ready to hand them their lives.
[756] I'm so excited about it because it frees me up.
[757] And so what it did do, the good news for you, what happened to me is that all that anxiety, all that energy I was putting into them that had me worn out and sometimes a little irritable, it's all gone.
[758] And now guess what?
[759] I look over at my husband and I'm like, there you are.
[760] I don't resent you because I'm not exhausted, you know?
[761] So I think there's going to be a lightness that comes about that you will not anticipate because you may not realize how much your wife has been holding on to, I just have to get these kids to the finish line.
[762] I just want them whole.
[763] I think that mothers think about that in a different way.
[764] I think we've held on to all this tension and anxiety through the child -rearing ages.
[765] We just want them to be safe.
[766] We want them to be whole.
[767] We've been worrying about whether they're going to graduate and do what they're supposed to do and get their tests, all the deadlines and all the, it's just nonstop.
[768] And it was for me. So when they left the house, all of that energy left, and it made room for me. Number one, I had more room time for me. And then I had more emotional energy for my husband.
[769] And now it's back to the way it was before the children where we each had our own independent lives, right?
[770] And I don't care what he does because I don't need him to do.
[771] He can golf as much as he wants to.
[772] And we also got rid of that thing that was the presidency.
[773] So we moved through that big child.
[774] That was like our third and fourth and fifth child, the presidency, right?
[775] So that's off our plates.
[776] There's a level of freedom and ability for each of us to take up our own projects.
[777] You know, our work is together, but it's not dependent on each other.
[778] I travel when I want with him or without him.
[779] it's back to those times when we live our lives and then we come back together and it's like what'd you do today you know and it's not about the kids it's about us but that's inspiring for me to hear I should have mentioned my wife's already seeing someone else he works for us works on the HVAC system he seems like a nice guy I'm telling you you went on this whole long thing and I'm like I forgot to mention And...
[780] Well, there's that.
[781] I mean, if you've already lost her.
[782] You can't just dismiss it as well, of course, yes.
[783] Occasely, there is the guy who does the H -back.
[784] If you've already lost her, I don't know what to tell you, but I think we can, you know, you lost her before the kid.
[785] You know, you don't mention that in the light we carry.
[786] No, I don't go over that.
[787] You should have a separate Conan section at the end.
[788] I don't know why it just flashed in my mind, but I have to bring up, um, I have to bring up, um, There was a time when you and I visited a military base together in the Middle East.
[789] And it was a great trip.
[790] And you were going to say hi to the troops.
[791] And they were so happy to see you.
[792] It was Doha, I believe, Air Force Base.
[793] And you brought me to do a show for them, which was you'll never have a better audience in the world.
[794] So it was just great all around.
[795] But there was one thing, again, this was your people.
[796] But they wanted you to go and sit at everyone's table in a giant mass hall.
[797] Oh, yeah.
[798] And talk to them, but they said, here's the thing.
[799] And they took me aside.
[800] Like, I'm somebody who knows anything.
[801] I'm just the clown.
[802] I'm the party clown.
[803] And they took me aside.
[804] And they said, your job, Conan, is every 10 minutes, you have to go to the table and say, I'm sorry, Mrs. Obama, but we have to be moving on to the next table.
[805] You're like, why are you going to make me do that?
[806] And I'm like, wait, but why would I?
[807] And they were, you're just doing it.
[808] That's what's happening.
[809] So you would go over.
[810] These service men and women are just thrilled and you're sitting there and you're talking to them and they're like, I can't believe we're sitting at a table with the first lady.
[811] And then after 10 minutes, I would have to come up and go, hey, guys, sorry, but Ms. Obama, you got go.
[812] And everyone would look at me with a kind of hate.
[813] Like, who are you?
[814] Yeah.
[815] And they were like, what do you mean?
[816] He says you have to go.
[817] Who's that idiot?
[818] That was a horrible setup.
[819] It was a horrible setup.
[820] And you would always roll your eyes and go, well, this idiot.
[821] That, yeah, I'd stay for, I'd be here for days.
[822] But Conan O 'Brien says we've got to move things.
[823] along that was an unfair situation it was very unfair and you loved it i could tell you loved it uh you talk that was a great visit though it was really great um you talk in your in your book about feeling different and about how tall um tall was hard for you when you were young i do think it can be harder for women than for men at an early age because um women can feel very self -conscious when they're tall and you struggled with it yeah yeah Yeah, this is the chapter about, am I seen, you know, and when you, you know, first feel othered or different.
[824] And I'd start with height because I think most people would think that the hardest thing for me would be my race, right?
[825] But as I'd say in the book, I mean, I grew up in a black community.
[826] You know, I wasn't different for a long time when it came to race.
[827] I went to, you know, I was with my extended family, so it was the height part, being the tall girl, you know, being the, and all that goes along, especially in our era, because tall was, you know, there weren't that, it seems like they're more tall people now.
[828] Yes.
[829] Seems like the world has adjusted.
[830] People are growing more.
[831] Thank goodness.
[832] But when we were coming up, being tall was unusual.
[833] You couldn't find clothes that fit.
[834] I, you know, I spent all these years, I sit tugging on my pants.
[835] legs because they were never quite hitting right on that.
[836] Mine would not hit the shoe.
[837] They wouldn't even come close to the shoe.
[838] And it looked like I was wearing knickers.
[839] And they called them floods.
[840] And people would, kids would always say.
[841] Yeah.
[842] Where's the flood?
[843] They would say, where's the flood?
[844] And I just hate my life.
[845] Yeah.
[846] And arms never being, even to this day with custom clothes, I still find myself, I'm rolling up my sleeves because the arms were never long enough.
[847] But I start with height because I want to define difference broadly, you know, because sometimes in this country, particularly we think about race and gender, but different, so many people in this country in this world are walking around feeling the mark of being different.
[848] And when you don't see yourself in a place when you are an other, you start.
[849] start practicing the story that you don't matter.
[850] I don't see myself.
[851] I don't fit in.
[852] I don't matter.
[853] And that creates a level of invisibility that people feel.
[854] And we hear that term now, people feeling like they don't see themselves in the world and how isolating that can be.
[855] So I try to start helping a broader set of people identify with their differentness so that, maybe they can see how that might feel for people of a different race or different sexual orientation, if they can connect to it.
[856] It makes sense because race is such, such an important topic and such an important question and something this country is still grappling with and needs to keep confronting.
[857] At the same time, it can overwhelm any conversation.
[858] When you say, I feel weird about, I felt.
[859] strange because I was so tall or for me it was I had bright orange hair you still do I know this but this is a wig um it velcroes on the back uh you've got such great hair oh thank you now see now we can use that now use that voice we're just going to keep putting that on a loop conan you got great hair i do have great hair thank you uh and but it didn't feel great when you when you were young because my mom would cut it in a bowl oh my gosh and And so, I mean, she would, there were six of us, so she would line us up.
[860] And she had the Sears and Roebuck haircuting kit.
[861] And she would bring us in one at a time.
[862] And we would sit on a high stool.
[863] And she would go like, Moe on the three stooges right across the middle.
[864] And I had not just freckles, but really like someone painted them on, like a cartoon.
[865] So I grew up looking a lot like the Wendy's girl.
[866] And I, and I, with a bowl cut.
[867] And I just, and I had.
[868] And I had.
[869] the pigtails too.
[870] But that was my choice.
[871] That was me doing my thing.
[872] But it was a feeling of, I remember a lot of my youth feeling like I don't like the way I look.
[873] And I had very specific ideas of how I, wouldn't it be great?
[874] For some reason, I thought black hair is cool.
[875] If I wish I had black hair and I wish I looked like that person on TV or that person on TV.
[876] I wanted to be a gymnast.
[877] I wanted to be, I read right about, I wanted to be Nadia Komenich.
[878] That's right.
[879] Right, you know, because I was, at that time, I was about her age and she had gotten the perfect 10.
[880] Of course, I picked the one thing that I was physically, probably the most ill -suited to be with these long legs and long arms.
[881] You'd be one of the tallest gymnasts in the history.
[882] But I didn't know.
[883] I didn't know that height was really connected to center of gravity, but I set out to be a gymnast and I failed miserably at it.
[884] But, you know, that's the thing.
[885] when you're young, you're searching to find yourself, to find a model for yourself.
[886] And in America in the time that I was growing up, I write about how few models of what a tall, strong, black young girl could be in life.
[887] There were no images of me to follow.
[888] And then you follow that up by going to Princeton, you know, and I talk about what that feels like to set foot on an Ivy League campus, where there was really no sign of people like me anywhere, right?
[889] And women, I think when you went to Princeton, it had only been co -ed for, I think, 12 years at that point, which is not a long time.
[890] Yeah.
[891] So, you know, when you are different, you are spending a lot of time sizing yourself up against other people's mirrors.
[892] Yeah.
[893] And that's, and that ties to the self -doubt that you feel that or that we talked about earlier, that feeling of, am I good enough?
[894] You know, because you grew up black, tall, redhead, freckles, different.
[895] And you were taught at a very early age that maybe not, you know.
[896] And so you practice those messages.
[897] And many of us practice those messages.
[898] And I want people of color to understand that that's not, that doesn't just happen to people because of race.
[899] That's happening to a lot of us.
[900] Because we have such a narrow view.
[901] of what being human is, especially in this country.
[902] The only people who seem to count, you have to be a certain, not even a certain race, but a certain hair color, a certain height, a certain, and it's usually male, white, blonde, it's wealthy, you know.
[903] So when you narrow down the definition of the heroes that we've put out, most of the country doesn't fit.
[904] Most of the country feels unseen.
[905] And I think that's where, anger and and that's when people are easy to divide because they don't feel seen.
[906] And why I tackle that is because I think we have to work on seeing ourselves.
[907] You know, I try to tell kids that.
[908] You know, because people ask, well, how do you overcome that?
[909] And it's like, well, I had to think about my father, you know, and, you know, he was not just a poor black man, but a poor black man with MS who walked with a cane and eventually with crutches and who had this was different because of disability which was probably the very first time I felt different was having a father with a disability but watching him find his own visibility in his character and his strength you know seeing him fall and get up and move forward you know I was taught that you can't wait for other people to see you because a lot of times they don't even know you're there and they're too busy feeling invisible themselves.
[910] So that work has to start with us.
[911] You can't look to be seen outside of yourself.
[912] That's the work that that is the constant work that each of us has to do to change the loop in our heads about not mattering.
[913] We have to rewrite that story.
[914] And that's why we have to share our stories.
[915] I mean, we have to talk out loud about those feelings so that we make people see me. Now you see me. I'm tall.
[916] I'm outspoken.
[917] I am trying to model a new way of being for other people so that there are more stories out there that count.
[918] You know, we have to broaden the definition of what it means to count.
[919] That's why I talk about Mindy Kaling is one of the first FEMA and Ali Wong.
[920] And every time somebody succeeds and there's a new story on TV about someone with a broader set of definition of being, it opens up the possibility for all of us.
[921] And I think that's what we don't understand about the value of diversity.
[922] It will ultimately help us all.
[923] You know, even people who don't view themselves as different.
[924] Expanding that story expands it for all of us.
[925] But we each have to do the work to find the value within ourselves so that we feel like our stories matter.
[926] Yeah.
[927] You know, so I tell my story because they're not.
[928] that many books written by, first of all, there are no other black first ladies.
[929] We do know that.
[930] So I think that's why it's important for kids to know this story.
[931] It's got to be another story out there, all of it.
[932] The highs, the lows, the flaws, the dings, the failures, the vulnerabilities.
[933] I'm just trying to broaden that definition so that some kid out there will see themselves in me. I know that you felt, you can talk about it in the book, but you felt very despondent, as we all did, after January 6th, and then you needed to be there for that inauguration, which was surreal and none of us knew, is this inauguration even going to happen?
[934] Is there going to be violence?
[935] You seem, and I don't know if writing the book is part, might be part catharsis, but also we've had some better news as of late about the country, which is people do still seem to believe in voting and in accepting the result of elections.
[936] So I don't know if you're feeling better.
[937] I know I'm feeling a little better.
[938] There's a lot of work to do.
[939] And I'll always have that anxious part of me that says, no, no, no, we're not there yet.
[940] In my own little life and in the country at large, but I'm wondering if you're just feeling a little better now.
[941] Yeah, I think, you know, and it's, we're also back out in the world with each other.
[942] Yeah.
[943] You know, so, we have we can't underestimate how much that isolation helped to reinforce some old wrong stories that we were telling ourselves because what what we couldn't do that we need as humans is that we weren't connecting right we're stuck in our houses in our sameness just with ourselves with our own loops and being fed by the news loops that are limited to yep and we weren't having any action react interactions and we the only person that was out there talking was that president.
[944] And all his messages were negative.
[945] It was all negative, right?
[946] That's why.
[947] And still is.
[948] And still is, right?
[949] But there was nothing filling the gap.
[950] There was nothing on the other side.
[951] And that's what I try to remind people when I, in the end of the book about reminding people the importance of going high.
[952] It's not just a motto.
[953] It's a necessity.
[954] You know, we respond directly to the messages that we put in our heads and the messages that feed us.
[955] And if we put negative energy out there, that's what we get back.
[956] So hope isn't, it's not just a catchphrase.
[957] I believe in it.
[958] Even though I can be cynical and down, I think for those of us who have a platform, it's our obligation to put that energy out there to stay high because people do feed off of that.
[959] So people were feeding off of negative energy.
[960] Now that voice is not so dominant.
[961] We're out.
[962] We're seeing one another again.
[963] We're running.
[964] into each other.
[965] People are a little crankyer than usual, but it is better to fill up that space with real interaction.
[966] Yeah.
[967] And I think, quite frankly, if I were in charge, I would make us go back to work, go back to school.
[968] You know, I don't think it's a healthy thing for us as a society to work from our homes, to be isolated in our comfort zones, where I think we need it now.
[969] However that looks, maybe we define it differently.
[970] Maybe we have more flexibility.
[971] But I think as a human race in this country, we need to be with each other on a regular basis.
[972] We need community.
[973] We don't do well in isolation.
[974] We just feed on bad energy.
[975] And we have nothing new coming in.
[976] Right.
[977] You know, even, you know, having a nice conversation with somebody in a line to get a cup of coffee can make you feel better, right?
[978] You know, same.
[979] Hello to somebody, having one good interaction, can erase all the bad that happens.
[980] But we lost that for two years.
[981] And it's really hard to get people to come back.
[982] But I think they slowly are.
[983] My people don't want to come back, but not because of COVID.
[984] Yeah, it's you.
[985] They're just, they've had enough.
[986] They've had more than enough.
[987] They're going out with your wife and the, what was he?
[988] He's the H -FAC repairman.
[989] Yes, yes.
[990] His name is Stephen.
[991] I hope they're very happy together.
[992] I am very conscious of your time and that you've been so generous with me, and I don't want to take too much of it.
[993] So I want to end by saying, I loved your book.
[994] It really spoke to me, even though people at first glance would say, well, what's the message that Michelle Obama has that's going to resonate with Conan?
[995] I think it's going to resonate with lots of people because we're all struggling with these things.
[996] And my only quibble with you is that you talk about having a...
[997] all your friends over for Camp David party, and there was no junk food and no liquor.
[998] Well, that was the, that didn't last long.
[999] Yeah, I'm not, if you're ever tempted to invite me anywhere, it's like not, I'm not coming.
[1000] I'm not coming.
[1001] I'm just telling you up front.
[1002] Well, we brought the liquor, liquor back, because no one would come back.
[1003] They were like, we got to have wine.
[1004] And I was like, okay, all right, that's in the chapter about friendship.
[1005] It's like you can't have it your way all the time.
[1006] Exactly.
[1007] That's a tool.
[1008] There's going to be some wine.
[1009] That's right.
[1010] Well, I love talking to you.
[1011] I mean, I really do, Conan.
[1012] I know you are one of the most thoughtful people out here using your platform to really help people work stuff out.
[1013] And that's what we need because there's somebody locked away that they don't have a friendship's community.
[1014] And I know that they are relying on these kind of conversations to give them light.
[1015] You always use your light for a good purpose.
[1016] Thank you.
[1017] So I'm always delighted to be in conversation.
[1018] I am making my wife listen to this one.
[1019] And don't leave him for Steve.
[1020] Just wait.
[1021] To be fair, he's really good at what he does.
[1022] Our air conditioning is never run better.
[1023] Anyway, Michelle Obama, thank you so much.
[1024] Thank you.
[1025] Such a treat and onward and do your good works.
[1026] You too.
[1027] Thank you.
[1028] Thanks for having me. Conan O 'Brien needs a friend with Conan O 'Brien, Sonam O 'Sessian, and Matt Gourley.
[1029] Produced by me, Matt Gourley.
[1030] Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Solitaroff, and Jeff Ross at Team Coo, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf.
[1031] Theme song by The White Stripes.
[1032] Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
[1033] Take it away, Jimmy.
[1034] Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.
[1035] Engineering by Eduardo Perez.
[1036] Additional production support by Mars Melville.
[1037] Nick, talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn.
[1038] You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode.
[1039] Got a question for Conan?
[1040] Call the Team Coco hotline at 323 -451 -2821 and leave a message.
[1041] It too could be featured on a future episode.
[1042] And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.
[1043] This has been a team co -op.
[1044] Coco production in association with Earwolf.