244 - Be Nostalgic For Old Problems

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] A one, two, three.

[2] Whoa.

[3] That was perfect.

[4] That was the most perfect one to me. Hello.

[5] And welcome to my favorite murder.

[6] The podcast, the true crime podcast.

[7] You've been listening to for a couple years.

[8] That's right.

[9] God, almost five at this point.

[10] Ooh.

[11] Wow.

[12] Five years.

[13] It's like the most, this is the longest I've ever had a a job for sure this is going to be my second longest relationship pretty soon nice yeah I think we've put a lot of work into it I think we've made it something special we really have it we didn't abandon it no and we want we wanted to at times we didn't want to at times oh it got like year two and a half got messy it was very difficult to do hey listen all that sounds stupid now in the pandemic right that sound like the dumbest fucking shit in the world.

[14] Absolutely.

[15] nothing matters.

[16] Be nostalgic for old problems you used to have that used to take up your whole life.

[17] And now you would kill for those to be your whole life problems.

[18] Oh, man. Yeah.

[19] And then the little things, too, that you miss about your normal life.

[20] I miss eyeliner.

[21] I miss liquid eyeliner.

[22] And putting it on and lipstick.

[23] For a reason.

[24] Yeah.

[25] Yeah.

[26] And like any of that stuff.

[27] yes any kind of plan to meet another human being and look them in the face excitement uh -huh wonder truly just a deep profound respect for your fellow man across the restaurant table from you well we're all this is over knock wood it's we're all going to be different and better right better people we're going to appreciate life more we're going to live in a moment instead of having future panic and past panic There's just no point.

[28] We're all on a clock.

[29] We got to maximize these moments while we can.

[30] Hopefully we're all listening during this time, taking time to work on ourselves, listening to a shit ton of self -help podcast.

[31] Oh, I am, Georgia.

[32] You should see the ab work.

[33] I do.

[34] I'm not doing that.

[35] It is crazy.

[36] How's that trampoline going behind you?

[37] It looks like it moved.

[38] It's on its back like a beetle.

[39] It does look like a dead bug.

[40] I tried to roll.

[41] it out.

[42] The scope of my Zoom and I hate to brag to everybody, but my Zoom picks up the entire room.

[43] I don't know why it the width of it is just it's just yeah.

[44] It's not a tight shot.

[45] So I can't hide my the trampoline I used four times and really thought I was on to something.

[46] Sure.

[47] And then what it usually happens we could track this.

[48] Usually it's that someone comes over and I want to hide all my shit and make it look like I'm much cleaner.

[49] And tidier than I actually am.

[50] And then things get put away and they never come back out.

[51] Oh, okay.

[52] So it's not there in front of you.

[53] You're just not going to use it.

[54] Yes.

[55] I like that too.

[56] I get that.

[57] Yeah.

[58] We'll work on it.

[59] We'll work on it.

[60] Look, it's almost Halloween, which everyone knows is a great time to refocus your energies on to perfect time to reset all the candy in your systems, your brand new candies.

[61] I've already overdone it on candy in a way that was like I never want.

[62] we got we got a bunch of the bags that have like two good candies and like two bad ones got a you got to pay the price that never have never have four good ones so you can just buy one um Karen I just realized fuck the candy talk did you change the haunted chair yeah well Stephen made me I mean asked me very politely too I'm so sorry oh my God here this whole time you've been sitting in this chair that sounds haunted when you move the creaking like boards of the base haunting?

[63] I mean, again, it is a sensitivity I have with me and chairs, but I will say this.

[64] Those are jury chairs from downtown Los Angeles in like the 20s or 30s.

[65] They were, I found them in some store in a time machine.

[66] But yeah, basically in like 19 or 2001 or 2002.

[67] That's cool.

[68] So they are haunted the farts of jurors from way back when.

[69] Yeah, old a bunch of, you know, middle -aged men that look like Ernest Borgnine were the people that were on trials back then.

[70] We saw the play.

[71] We know.

[72] So now I have this whisper silent folding chair that my friend Karen Anderson gave me as a housewarming present that's my favorite like it's all gold.

[73] Yeah, I like it.

[74] You've seen it right?

[75] Yeah, it's gorgeous.

[76] It looks like wood but it's a padded seat.

[77] It's gorgeous.

[78] It looks like something that was in my grandma's card table room.

[79] Exactly.

[80] Exactly.

[81] When the extra when the late extra ladies came over to play car, she'd have a chair to bring out hold on.

[82] And by that, you mean the crazy ladies, the ones that were a little bit extra?

[83] Oh, the best.

[84] Oh, my God.

[85] That's my favorite when I was a kid and I'd stay with her for the summer and she'd take me to the card games at her friend's house and they'd all give me like all the candy.

[86] Yeah.

[87] And look at all their chachkes and it was just so much fun.

[88] Yeah.

[89] And you'd take a nap because it would be very warm.

[90] Yeah, and it smelled like a grandma, which I love.

[91] Everybody called you honey.

[92] Yeah.

[93] Mm -hmm.

[94] I know.

[95] Grandma energy.

[96] We could really do for some grandma energy in the world right now.

[97] Big Grandma energy is what we need.

[98] You know what I saw, which is the kind of the cornyest of all social media things, but my very favorite, which is every year, the holidays, the tweet goes around of the boy that got the text from the lady that said, be here, whatever.

[99] And then he said, well, I'm not your grandson, but can I have a plate?

[100] And she said, of course, that's what grandma's do.

[101] You know, they're still doing it, and that boy is now married.

[102] Love them.

[103] So he's married now with the whole family.

[104] He's married now with this gorgeous girl.

[105] What are they going to do about COVID?

[106] They still, well, he said they're still going this year.

[107] They can have a Zoom or maybe like, yeah, an outdoor social distance Christmas.

[108] It was never a big group at that family.

[109] But that it really is.

[110] My sister and I are talking about it.

[111] It's such a feel good, like, you know, deep down maybe we can all get a long time.

[112] of thing because that lady came at that thing with such energy of like, of course you can.

[113] Which is like, those are the grandmas I know.

[114] Treat yourself like a grandma who's nice.

[115] Like if you have a country grandma, don't treat yourself like that.

[116] But if you treat yourself like you imagine a grandma is supposed to be.

[117] Yeah.

[118] There were many grandparents and people of your who were very damaged by coming up in this like the American and you make or break kind of like you're on your own from age five bullshit abuses the standard and shut up about your feelings and suck it up you're going to roll your own cigarettes because we don't have the money for pre -rolled cigarettes at five or whatever yeah you don't get any candy and you'll like it that whole mentality there's some people that yeah they it's just like um in in our family ways say there's the good irish and the bad irish you can either be like the fun drinky irish with your arm around people like telling a story and get in here here or you can be like those the crazy weird ones that are like secret drinkers and schizophrenic and all the crazy shit don't be don't be the great be the good I that's another one be the good Irish not the crazy Irish speaking of Irish are you watching Fargo um I think I'm caught up yes I think I'm now caught up can I say I'm kind of I know this is the whole point of Fargo but I'm kind of over the gangster stuff I just want to watch Jesse Buckley, the red -headed nurse, live her fucking life.

[119] Like, that's all.

[120] I am fascinated by that character.

[121] I just want to watch that part of it with the neighbors.

[122] Her angel of death life or she's just doing whatever she wants.

[123] And the way she talks and the way she fucked Jason Schwartzman, I was just like, damn, girl, like she.

[124] And then when when the, when she found her closet of, I can't say, oh, wait, never mind, shit.

[125] Spoiler.

[126] Spoilers.

[127] I just love that.

[128] It's so good.

[129] The gangster stuff, I'm just like, how Why don't you guys just get along and you can do crime together?

[130] I know, I know.

[131] But it's, yeah, you're right.

[132] Because it's a variation on a theme.

[133] So it's always kind of the same thing.

[134] But you're right.

[135] When she first, I mean, spoilers, but these ones are old.

[136] But it's like that first time she basically snuffed out a page.

[137] You're just like, wait, what the fuck?

[138] Like, we were, I thought we were getting set up to think she was Florence Nightingale.

[139] Totally.

[140] totally totally it's so genius and the way she's manipulating manipulates like the hospital the head of the hospital and the way oh I love it that's the only part of like it's pretty great what else are you watching oh yeah I watched American murder and yeah it's the Shanan Watts is that is it Shannon Shanan yeah Shannon Watts and their two daughters murder it is It's like that podcast cold about that case in Utah where it's just there's no redeeming teeny tiny bit of anything.

[141] It's just horrendous.

[142] It's just confounding.

[143] And you're watching it on a body cam, which you go, hey, hey, body cams would be the perfect idea if we didn't let the police control them because you are there.

[144] But then my thing was, I went through that and then I went, oh, I don't want to ever do that again.

[145] I don't want to sit there with the police as they begin investigating this man pretending to be upset because his wife is missing.

[146] And you know, he's guilty?

[147] It's such, it's, you know what it is?

[148] It's like, hey, everybody's on this true crime train in their own different compartment in their own different way.

[149] And everybody gets what they get out of it.

[150] I get off there.

[151] I don't want to go that far and I don't want to get that far in.

[152] neither especially when the story is so unbelievably tragic and yeah like you're saying stark he lied until that female cop was like so you're comfortable letting the public believe that your wife killed your girls he's and he was like like he tried he kept trying and it was like oh my god a monster he's a monster and it doesn't and it's just impossible to wrap your fucking head around.

[153] What about the part?

[154] So tons of spoilers guys, obviously, but what about the part?

[155] It's on Netflix, right?

[156] It's American murder.

[157] Something about next door.

[158] Family next door or something.

[159] Yeah, a family next door.

[160] But there was the part where the cop was in the neighbor's house and then the guy and the husband leaves and then he's like, he never acts like this.

[161] And that neighbor was onto it and just like spilling it the second that guy walked out.

[162] It was fascinating.

[163] He knew.

[164] And it wasn't even like, yeah, he's not acting normal because his wife's missing he was like that's not there's something fishy going on it was immediate yeah he was on it was but but again like you're saying it's just knowing where it's going and then it's just like oh this feels it's i would say this you can still be a fan of true crime and all that stuff and dip out for a little while when when reality is hard enough already yes you know what i mean check your check the things that are making you feel okay because that one afterwards I was like nope not doing that no I didn't I didn't like it I've been watching Saxon Dale to get my brain out of that realm of you know you know who I'm in love with on Saxon Dale is his assistant oh my God the best character I love him I want to spend personal time with him he's so good the personality of a guy that stands next to the fucking Saxon Dale and listen to his bullshit and be like cool all right oh my God it's just such a beautiful nuanced show it's it's Steve Coogan who like anything he does just watch everything he's ever done he's the best it's what isn't on BBC probably or I don't know what we're watching it on I think we're do like maybe it's even Saxandale I bet you that's a Britboxer an acorn or some kind of specialty it's 71 you got a search for but it's just like you got to care absurd and lovely and everything also his neighbor this is if you are if you are like me in a what's it called a brittif bridophile huh anglet angle file jesus that's the brittifiles that you love brittal filters and fresh water oh my god i do my water tastes so clean i'm such a brittophile um obviously i'm i'm a huge one since i don't know the name of it so clearly i'm number one the number one stan Well, it's like when the hipsters don't call themselves hipsters, you know what I mean?

[165] Yeah, I'm so real.

[166] I'm just the realist.

[167] Anyhow, Saxondale's across the street neighbor is this British actor named Darren Boyd, who if you, he is in every hilarious, like, those kinds of TV shows.

[168] He's the tall, blonde kind of dorky guy that's constantly just, that he's constantly basically being bullied by Saxondale.

[169] Oh, he's so funny.

[170] Yes, who's like in charge of the neighborhood watch.

[171] and trying to like check on stuff and then and be a cool guy yeah it's so good yeah that's such that's been helping us it has a couple seasons too right yeah totally four seasons totally when we watch that and after like the vow or fargo we put on saxon dale for like a pallet cleanser yeah saxon dale's hilarious um good one i have uh oh i also so wait did you just say the vow yeah I don't I dipped out of the vow it's really slow it's slow and it's kind of draws on but it's but the but the stuff and it is still interesting so I've stuck with it okay it's just a little like one of those come on like you could have done this in half as many episodes but yeah make your money I think I I I had to uh I it started to feel like an acting class to me it started to feel like when I used to have to take an acting class and I would just kind of sit in the back and just be like everybody seemed everybody was like kind of just kind of overtly sexual and also on the vegeteers and like posed perfectly and like so so volunteering first like everyone was volunteering first and trying to act like a you know they were walking through honey or whatever the exercise was and I was just always in the back like what am I doing like why do I even like this so it has that tension of like those types of people that really need something that was them they're like they're thespians they're not actors karen they're they're they're artists is what they're artists and they can cry on command there's some there's some footage of the chick who's like because she was in fucking battle star galactica or whatever the fact she smallsville or whatever she's like oh yeah alison mac yeah it's she seems in insufferable insufferable yeah it's there you know what it was that was the it was the scene between her and Keithernery when she first got taken to volleyball oh my God and she was so hardcore flirting with him in a way I don't just hug I kiss ew something about that makes me want to leave my skin I cannot withstand watching people flirt like that it was like flirt poor it was like it was comfortable for everyone involved except and bizarre bizarre so bizarre what were they like she was just like she it's like she went in there knowing he that's the first time they met that she knew he was the leader and she was like I'm gonna fucking this is going to be my thing and I'm gonna make this guy fall in love with me and here's how it's fucking done and I'm an actor hold my jacket exactly hold my jacket Well, I go make this call leader fall in love with me. I'm going to flirt with someone who has the sexuality of an old raggedy andy doll.

[172] You know what I love is knee pads and 4 a .m. volleyball.

[173] What's up?

[174] Here it is.

[175] And a very, very high, lilting voice.

[176] That's what I'm looking for.

[177] He's so gross.

[178] Also, honestly, because you know they filmed everything.

[179] I just and maybe it's just like because they're trying to tell this other story but would would it kill them just to explain what the point of any of those groups were right like what you actually got what the you know here's the class we took it's this it said this we were working on EMs to get us here I do not understand how they glued this fucking ship together it doesn't make sense because they keep saying like to use for our job and to get in our life But it doesn't seem like they have other jobs or other lives.

[180] They're just sitting.

[181] And then there's like not that many people there either.

[182] So it's like, wouldn't you look around at this thing that's life changing supposedly and be like, well, why are they only 11 people here though?

[183] Yeah.

[184] And it's like the same 11.

[185] It's like me going to a small Catholic school for junior high and high school.

[186] We were just like, these people again.

[187] Yeah.

[188] I can't do it anymore.

[189] Fuck.

[190] It's very.

[191] Yeah, you're right.

[192] A lot of those people were like, I took the class.

[193] now I'm the teacher.

[194] It's like that doesn't, this is my job now.

[195] If it's that accessible that now you're the teacher, how brilliant and genius can this program be?

[196] Right.

[197] You're immediately teaching it.

[198] I want there to be decades of work before someone can become a teacher of whatever the fuck I'm learning.

[199] Hell yeah.

[200] You, in my world, you would have to climb Mount Kilimanjaro.

[201] You would have to, like, it would be scenes from the golden child.

[202] You'd have to go into a cage.

[203] And jump from pole to pole And then drink the water Make the fire go out Not that I sat through two years in class And wrote down my fucking schedule every day And asked if I was allowed to eat certain foods Master Master, no fucking Vanguard I refuse Also I think it's this If I if it were up to me to be like Right now in sixth grade We're going to start this A program where we just start telling kids How to avoid getting sucked into cults just a just a general like a step by step almost like a dare class that you would put in but now we're just doing it for colts because it seems to be coming up a lot now so when you have to give people evident proof what's it called um collateral collateral for anything get out which is just for the collateral yeah titpicks get out i mean give them out if you want but don't don't give them out as collateral no don't get involved with anything that has the word collateral, including the Tom Cruise movie, don't, I'm saying stay away.

[204] Yeah.

[205] And then if dieting has something to do with your spiritual program.

[206] It doesn't.

[207] You guys?

[208] It doesn't.

[209] Oh, my God.

[210] Speaking of cults, I have a book that I'm listening to that I fucking love that I want to tell you about.

[211] So it's by this, it's a memoir.

[212] And it's by this guy named Michael Jolette, J -O -L -L -E -T.

[213] Oh, yeah.

[214] I follow him on Twitter.

[215] So he's the singer of the Airborne Toxic Event and he wrote a memoir and you're like, okay, beautiful man who's in a band who's super cool.

[216] What's your fucking memoir?

[217] And then I started listening to it.

[218] And it starts as him as a kid, like five years old.

[219] And it starts as his mother sneaks him out of the cult that they're in and then goes from there.

[220] Wait, no. Was he in a different one or was he in Sinanon?

[221] on.

[222] Yes.

[223] Sitters.

[224] He was in Sinoin.

[225] Uh -huh.

[226] Yes.

[227] That's the one that is out in, it's in Sonoma County.

[228] That's like out near where I grew up.

[229] Yeah, yeah.

[230] So, ooh, I want to listen to that.

[231] It's great.

[232] And it's just, and then it goes from there and their lives and the mom and how she kind of still has that mentality.

[233] And it's such a fucking good book.

[234] And the, and he reads it obviously in the audio book.

[235] I love it.

[236] It's great.

[237] It adds, say the title.

[238] It's called, oh, I didn't even say the fucking title, did I. It's called Hollywood Park.

[239] Hollywood Park.

[240] Hollywood Park.

[241] by Mackell Jolette.

[242] Yeah, it's great.

[243] It's great.

[244] It's all very 80s, too.

[245] It's just so good.

[246] That sounds amazing.

[247] Yeah.

[248] Oh, I love that.

[249] Love a cult story.

[250] Sure.

[251] I love a true story, love a memoir.

[252] Uh -huh.

[253] And then, yeah, it's great.

[254] Lead us out of a cult.

[255] Totally.

[256] And how did you get, like, you had a fucked up childhood.

[257] How did you get so successful?

[258] You know, like people like to hear that as well.

[259] Yeah, because that's the key.

[260] Yeah.

[261] Ficked up, being fucked up is the key to getting somewhere.

[262] Hey, want to be an interesting person?

[263] Have a real.

[264] Do you want to have ambition burn inside you in a way that you cannot explain?

[265] Oh, well, then have kind of a fucked up run and run and run from yourself and constantly try to achieve.

[266] That's right.

[267] Do it.

[268] Yes.

[269] That's the fuel.

[270] You're not fucked up.

[271] You're ready to go.

[272] Right.

[273] Or work against yourself for so many years by pouring the drugs and alcohol on top of it because you just are too overwhelmed by that.

[274] creativity.

[275] And then suddenly one day you figure it all fucking out and you become the successful person, whatever that means to you.

[276] That's right.

[277] But before that happens, you have to stew in your own juices for quite some time.

[278] That's right.

[279] And really, really feel fucked up.

[280] And they smell those juices.

[281] Oh, I can smell it from here.

[282] That's right.

[283] So I have been listening to, my go to these days is, and I've already plugged this podcast, sexy, unique podcast.

[284] It's, Laura, I always am afraid I'm saying her last name on Shane Halls, I believe, and my friend Carrie O'Donnell, they just started covering, they're recapping season one of Rock of Love.

[285] Oh my God.

[286] The Brett Michael's dating show on VH1.

[287] We started that at the very beginning of quarantine.

[288] Yeah, show.

[289] Holy shit.

[290] It is so, yeah, they're so, the two of them talking about it is so hilarious.

[291] It's, again, my favorite when I don't have to actually suffer through.

[292] reality TV, but I can hear about it.

[293] I like that.

[294] We literally tried 10 minutes in the beginning.

[295] Let's try this again and couldn't watch it.

[296] It's just so uncomfortable.

[297] But I'd listen to that.

[298] Hearing people do impressions of the people and the things that they said.

[299] It's a totally different totally different thing.

[300] So yeah, if you like reality TV or like recap shows or whatever, those guys.

[301] And also, I belong to their Patreon, so I get bonus episodes.

[302] And just the stuff they talk about in between in, you know, just processing the life that we're going through right now.

[303] It's very helpful to me. I listen to them a lot in the morning.

[304] It's like my, you know, they're my podcast friends.

[305] Sure.

[306] Yeah.

[307] Wait, you have other podcast friends besides me?

[308] They're the ones that they don't know.

[309] I'm their podcast friend.

[310] You're my literal.

[311] Right.

[312] Got it.

[313] Should we do some exactly right?

[314] Catch up?

[315] Let's do it.

[316] Guys, we have a big announcement in a minute.

[317] But first.

[318] Oh, yeah, good one.

[319] Tease it up.

[320] But first, we want to tell you that we have some merch going on right now.

[321] So the design, this is terrible, keep going, was so awesome.

[322] And you guys loved it so much that we put out tank tops.

[323] They're on the website now.

[324] And then we also have mugs.

[325] So it says, this is terrible, keep going.

[326] Which is, like, so perfect for these days in so many ways.

[327] It's timely and yet eternal.

[328] I think you buy this shirt and it pays off in the meantime and then, of course, the long run is entirely covered.

[329] I don't know if you can say that about just any shirt or really any shirt at all but this one.

[330] That's true.

[331] That's true.

[332] Maybe a nice Henley.

[333] In the network, moving over to network news, this podcast will kill you, just released their season finale, season three finale on Tuesday and they're talking all about birth control.

[334] Very timely and topical.

[335] That sounds fucking awesome.

[336] I want to.

[337] Yeah.

[338] Let those ladies walk you through some birth control info.

[339] And then also the fall line is they interviewed Monica Kayson from CUE missing person center about their missing person search effort.

[340] So that's just a really interesting thing for people who are into true crime and into, you know, missing person cases.

[341] I think he'll like that.

[342] Yeah.

[343] Yeah, that's great.

[344] Okay.

[345] Big announcement.

[346] it's big announcement time now and we have been talking about waiting for this announcement for so long that it's just surreal that it's finally here I can't I'm it's so it's a relief that it's finally here it feels so good you guys we are about to announce two new podcasts that are coming to exactly right this first one is a podcast that's going to be hosted by our friends Millie de Cherico and Danielle Henderson two hilarious and very talented and very brilliant ladies.

[347] Millie is the programmer on Turner Classic Movies and she has been for the past like I think 17 years.

[348] Danielle Henderson is a TV writer.

[349] She's hosted a bunch of stuff.

[350] You also might know her because she invented the feminist Ryan Gosling meme that is one of the most genius things I've ever seen.

[351] So you might know her from that as well.

[352] The two of them have gotten together, Millie and Danielle, and they have made a podcast called I Saw What You Did.

[353] And it is a, it's a, it's basically a movie podcast where the two of them every week, they're going, they basically, quote, unquote, program a double feature for you.

[354] They pick two movies.

[355] It's always a theme.

[356] So it'll be like neighborhood creeps or great 70s apartments or hysterical women who have every right to be hysterical.

[357] And basically, the two of them watch the movie and break it down.

[358] talk about it, Millie being kind of the film expert and Danielle being a film fan and just a person that likes to watch movies.

[359] So it's really hilarious.

[360] You know, they're women of color.

[361] It's just a really cool new way, new discussion on watching movies.

[362] And we're super, super excited to be hosting it.

[363] I think it's going to be groundbreaking in some ways, you know?

[364] And it premieres on November 10th.

[365] So keep an eye out for it.

[366] Okay.

[367] And then that's second podcast that we're going to announce today is called 10fold more wicked.

[368] We're so freaking excited about this.

[369] Oh, my God.

[370] It's hosted by author and journalist Kate Winkler Dawson.

[371] So each season, Kate's going to blend her incredible storytelling skills and her investigative journalism skills to present a new gruesome or spooky crime from the past, like pre -1930s, which is such a cool time period.

[372] Later seasons are going to touch on how crimes led to the insanity defense in criminal trials or highlight why body cadavers are so important in med school and like how that happened.

[373] So it's going to be freaking awesome.

[374] Obviously, you know, the fact that she's both an investigative journalist and a storyteller is just going to make for an incredible podcast.

[375] Yeah, if you have read any of her books, Kate Dawson, she is an unbelievable crime.

[376] historian and she's written a we I've read all of her books just from from knowing her from working yeah with her and it's she's such a talented storyteller and her doing a podcast I mean it is yeah she does amazing work and so that comes out 10fold more wicked on November 23rd and I saw what you did on November 10th oh my god we have two new podcasts on the network two new podcasts you guys we're so stoked we're a real boy now and there's more to come there's There's more to come on this slate, but those are the first two of a new bunch of new shows.

[377] So finally, you know, I know.

[378] We've waited so long.

[379] Yeah.

[380] You thought we were lying to you.

[381] We weren't lying to you.

[382] We weren't.

[383] Don't fucking lie to you.

[384] Not about that.

[385] Not about that.

[386] Oh, sure.

[387] True.

[388] Right.

[389] Anything else you want to touch upon or, you know, feel or fondle upon?

[390] I mean, not really because there hasn't been that much going on except for.

[391] it feels like there's a bunch going on.

[392] So there's a strange malaise, like a laziness that it is going hand in hand with procrastination.

[393] Or I just never feel like doing anything.

[394] Nope, never ever.

[395] Why would you?

[396] It's nothing happens.

[397] Yeah.

[398] That's it.

[399] It's rough.

[400] Stay low.

[401] Here's my advice if anyone wants it.

[402] Stay low to the ground and cool to the touch.

[403] stay out of direct sunlight, you know?

[404] Like vampire.

[405] Try to keep all the shade shut.

[406] Try to get pale because you might as well.

[407] Yeah.

[408] Or at least say it's okay that I'm doing it.

[409] Oh, yeah.

[410] Okay.

[411] You want to be like a cat vampire.

[412] Out of the ground.

[413] Dark.

[414] You okay?

[415] I'm just saying last night for dinner I did have a giant pretzel and there's no world where I should be ordering a giant.

[416] pretzel and eating it's no it's fine they got a giant pretzel but did you have anything else is the important thing if you I did have some salad then you're fine okay but it was a giant it doesn't matter if you only had a giant pretzel that would be working on it I'm saying this pretzel could have fed a giant the jolly green giant it was so gigantic um yeah but we're working on it day by day that's right we are what else can we do there's really no choice in the matter that you have we don't have choice no yeah therapy that's so important do that too do that that's good that's important my mom texts me i love you for the first time and it's first time she said it in months and months wow so that's a positive thing that's very good oh yeah well no i'm just thinking you know what i you know what i think it was go ahead sorry well no no i'm just thinking with this swirl of how psychotic politics are getting yeah i think there's a lot of people who If they could just get, like, touch a buzzer and just be out free and clear, they would be.

[417] Oh.

[418] You know what?

[419] They're in so far.

[420] That's right.

[421] That's so funny that you equated it with that because I did too.

[422] I saw that.

[423] She wrote, I love you and miss you because we're not really speaking.

[424] And I thought, oh, man, I bet.

[425] I thought to myself, how on earth did she in her Jewish mind make proud boys stand back and stand by okay?

[426] Yes.

[427] And in my mind, I'm like, she couldn't, I love you and miss you, is an opening of a door.

[428] Yes.

[429] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[430] Absolutely.

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[448] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[449] Goodbye.

[450] I realized this week that I had a heavy hitter.

[451] And once I got to page nine on my story and had more to talk about, I was like, listen, Karen, I'll go this week.

[452] want and you go next week.

[453] How about it?

[454] And I was like, that case and I have a month.

[455] And I need a week to learn how to roller skate.

[456] So next week.

[457] That's right.

[458] You can really seize your time as you will not do as I did not do.

[459] Having nine pages in a story, it just brought me so back to tour.

[460] Like I think I'm having a thing now where like now the memories of touring are so sweet and golden and wonderful.

[461] And everyone I think of is like, remember.

[462] that fucking hotel in Toronto that was um I think Japanese themed that it was unbelievable hotel the one I just perfect the one I missed our fucking call time in because I was sick yeah yes it was gorgeous it was unbelievable but they're typing up my story and going to do the insert page number and then being like nine like where we would say to each other and you had said to me before like can can you not do like a story that long where I'm like I know I'm sorry.

[463] And you try to cut it down, but like, what do you take out?

[464] Yeah.

[465] Because you're like, I'm just trying to get the good story going.

[466] But it happens because then, you know, then I do stuff like, show you old men with tomato plants and stuff like that.

[467] Which I'm like, don't take that out.

[468] Take out.

[469] Take something else out.

[470] Take out the horrible facts of humanity and what people do to each other.

[471] Old man with tomato pants.

[472] So this has become 11 pages with six.

[473] 16 font in Georgia font of course because that's my thing.

[474] So because this is an important story and maybe people haven't heard about it because it takes place in Australia.

[475] So I've been following this case for a couple of years now because it's been a cold case which you know I'm obsessed with.

[476] It's been going on for over 20 years and I wanted to wait until there was a resolution which a couple years ago something happened and this last month in September finally there's kind of been a resolution.

[477] So it's no longer a cold case.

[478] So it's like it's Perth's.

[479] So it takes place in Perth in Australia.

[480] It's kind of like their golden state killer or BTK where it just completely changed the area and how people live their lives and, you know, raise their children.

[481] It just it shook everyone up.

[482] We got yelled at by a lot of people when we were on tour in Australia for not going to Perth.

[483] A hundred percent.

[484] There were people who drove from Perth.

[485] They were mad where they were like, look, it's a stop.

[486] You're supposed to go to Perth.

[487] No, you can't.

[488] You can't drive to Perth.

[489] I don't know.

[490] Yeah, let me, I'll tell you all about it.

[491] This is the Claremont serial killer.

[492] Oh, wow.

[493] Oh, yes.

[494] Okay.

[495] Amazing.

[496] Yes.

[497] I, I, you don't know how many times I said to Jay, please don't let Karen do the Claremont serial killer.

[498] I've been working on it.

[499] I've been, like, I had docs and shit.

[500] I was like, don't let her do it.

[501] It's mine.

[502] He's like, I want.

[503] You text him once a month, every month on the first.

[504] I was like, Jay at threatening note.

[505] Fine, it's hers.

[506] Don't fucking suggest it to her, please.

[507] He promised So finally going to do it.

[508] I got information from WAT Today .com.

[509] There's an article by Heather McNeil, Nusa News by Angie Raphael, news .com.

[510] A .U. by Candice Sutton.

[511] There's a Claremont, the trial podcast, or a whole Claremont series podcast you can listen to.

[512] ABC, Australia, Andrea Mays, and Seven News in Australia, an article by Duncan, McNabb and there's these there's so many great journalists that have been following this for you know decades and so there's a lot to read about it so let me tell you about Claremont Perth is the capital of western Australia and it has a population of almost two million people it's so it is the most isolated city in the world is it really yeah which is why we didn't go there me say and me saying driving they would have had to have flown they would have they would have driven through the Australian Outback.

[513] Like fucking kangaroos and shit and fucking brush land.

[514] Like I don't know.

[515] Fucking red dirt and kangaroos, bitch.

[516] Are you ready?

[517] I'm sure they hate me for saying that.

[518] But it's the most But it's just that one part.

[519] Yeah.

[520] It's teeny tiny.

[521] It takes five hours to fly there.

[522] It's the most isolated city in the world.

[523] It's got the Indian Ocean on one side and the Australian Outback on the other.

[524] It's really cool.

[525] If you zoom, if you look at it on a map and like start zooming out it's it's like here's it's like if los angeles was here it's basically Los Angeles to Houston to get to Adelaide so the next big city is Adelaide and it's it's a 30 hour drive okay so that's how isolated it is can I just say what if you lived in Perth what if you lived in Perth this is this might be what I do when I retire yeah because you know I really genuinely really loved Australia in a very deep spiritual way.

[526] Yeah, I wrote, it's a beautiful fucking city and I wrote there's a chance I might move there on November 4th as a matter of fact.

[527] Will they take us?

[528] I hope they take us because Canada won't take us anymore.

[529] Can someone speak to the mayor of Perth and please?

[530] We're really fun at parties.

[531] I was just thinking it would be fun to move to a house that's right on the edge of the outback.

[532] So you're the place that the first place that the man dying of thirst crawls to.

[533] out of the outback.

[534] If he does make it at all, he's knocking on your door first, just to be there for the stories.

[535] That's a good one.

[536] So, it's L .A. to Houston, basically.

[537] Its sister cities are Houston, as a matter of fact, and San Diego.

[538] So you can imagine it's a beautiful place, like some of the most expensive houses in Australia are in Perth.

[539] I think it's kind of like a secret famous person place to go because Australians don't give a shit that you're like, oh, there's a famous person.

[540] Who cares?

[541] Like that's kind of where they go to just live their lives.

[542] You know what they do?

[543] Australians, even if you're a famous person, they'll tell you to throw shrimp on the Barbie to your face.

[544] They don't give a shit.

[545] They're very casual people as a nation.

[546] So it's super isolated.

[547] And Claremont is a suburb of Perth.

[548] It's located on the north bank of the Swan River.

[549] It's really charming and upscale.

[550] The main district of Claremont is known as an affluent local hub.

[551] So it has a bunch of cute boats.

[552] Like, think about Beverly Hills, boutiques and restaurants and pubs and bars, and it's like the young nightlife scene, but it's, you know, upscale.

[553] So it's kind of a lovely little place.

[554] It's safe.

[555] It's a close -knit community.

[556] Australian reporter Alison Fan describes it as the heart of the gold triangle of Western suburbs.

[557] Basically, it's the kind of place where you don't expect anything bad to happen, of course.

[558] That is until the mid -90s within a span of 15 months when three young women miscelled.

[559] mysteriously disappear right off the street.

[560] So 18 year old Sarah Spears is the first to disappear.

[561] So she had moved to Perth after finishing high school nearby.

[562] She goes to secretarial school.

[563] She gets a job as a receptionist.

[564] Like all of these stories go, she's lovely.

[565] She makes friends easily.

[566] She's close with her family.

[567] She's responsible.

[568] She is very comfortable in her new city life.

[569] She lives with her sister.

[570] And her dad describes her as the type of person who met everyone with a glow and friends said she was just filled with laughter.

[571] On the night of January 27, 1996, she's out with her friends visiting the clubs.

[572] And she leaves Club Bayview at the center of Claremont at around 2 a .m. by herself.

[573] At 206 a .m., she calls a taxi from the public phone booth.

[574] And there's a recording of her calling the taxi.

[575] and she's seen waiting alone by three eyewitnesses who also mentioned seeing an unidentified car stopping where she's waiting.

[576] And then when the taxi arrives at 209 a .m., she's gone.

[577] She's not there.

[578] So by the next day, her disappearance automatically alarms friends and family who know she's responsible and reliable, wouldn't just take off.

[579] So even though, you know, there was like usually a waiting period for missing people to be taken seriously, her friends and family kind of made it happen because they were so freaked out.

[580] So there's a massive public attention immediately.

[581] Her friends hand out missing posters all over Claremont, and it becomes a major investigation because of her family and friends.

[582] They pass out 20 ,000 flyers.

[583] There's 2 ,000 posters all over Perth.

[584] 50 buses have her picture on them a missing person's flyer.

[585] Like you couldn't go anywhere and not see her face.

[586] So people knew about it.

[587] immediately.

[588] A task force is set up within 48 hours to look into her case, but there's really no evidence.

[589] Like, no one saw her disappear.

[590] And so the trail goes cold.

[591] So it was in January.

[592] So then we get to June, June 6, 1996.

[593] 23 -year -old Jane Rimmer is with friends for a night out in Claremont in the same area.

[594] She's described as bubbly and funny.

[595] She's really genuine and she's really easy to get along with.

[596] All the pictures of these women are just, you'd be friends with all of them, you know?

[597] Right.

[598] She is a living nanny and the two young children.

[599] She nannies adore her.

[600] She's friends with the mother, even though there's a big age difference.

[601] She's just a really easy to get along with person.

[602] And in fact, the mother had spoken to her.

[603] They talked on the phone for like four hours a couple days before and even discussed the disappearance of Sarah Spears.

[604] So Jane's friends tell the police that they had hit a couple different night spots, including club Bayview where Sarah had last hung out.

[605] And there's a long line at one of the clubs.

[606] So Jane's friends decide to take a taxi home, but Jane wants to stay behind.

[607] CCTV had been installed in Claremont after Sarah had disappeared.

[608] And it actually caught footage of Jane standing outside this club called The Continental at 12 .04 a .m. So it's like busy.

[609] There's people hanging out outside and smoking and like lively.

[610] It's not like it's a dead.

[611] It's a desolate area.

[612] She seems like she's waiting for someone, like maybe a taxi.

[613] She's leaning on a pole.

[614] She's laughing.

[615] The camera catches her talking to an unknown man. She's just laughing with him.

[616] It pans away.

[617] And when it pans back, she's fucking gone.

[618] 55 days later.

[619] And actually, sorry, that CCTV footage isn't released until 2008.

[620] What?

[621] Because they wanted to keep, I don't know.

[622] know.

[623] They wanted to keep things under wraps.

[624] They sent it to NASA to try to get more foot more information and they couldn't and they just kept it under wraps, which is weird.

[625] So 55 days later on August 3rd, a family's out for the day in the bushland of Wellard, about 25 miles south of Claremont.

[626] So the mother, she's looking at these what are called death lilies.

[627] She sees the biggest one she's ever seen.

[628] So she kind of walks through the brush to look at it.

[629] And she feels something brushing the back of her leg.

[630] This feels like fate in a weird, creepy way.

[631] She turns to see what she was feeling.

[632] And she sees a tiny foot sticking out of some brush.

[633] And it is, she had found the naked body of Jane hidden under some brush.

[634] Wow.

[635] Yeah.

[636] Yeah, what are the odds?

[637] That's crazy.

[638] It's just creepy.

[639] It's sad.

[640] Her remains were too decomposed to confirm a cause of death, but an autopsy does show that she had a prominent injury on her neck that's consistent with a knife wound.

[641] So it's reported to the media that a pot.

[642] Okay, so then the same day on a road less than a mile from where Jane's body was found, the investigators find a pocket knife.

[643] And it had a telecom logo on it.

[644] So telecom, which I'm going to call it turns into this company.

[645] called Telstra.

[646] So I'm going to call it that from now on.

[647] So Telstra is Australia's largest telecommunications company, basically like AT &T or Verizon, like phone lines, internet.

[648] They do all that shit.

[649] So the knife was issued as standard equipment to Telstra workers.

[650] What the fuck is it doing out in the middle of nowhere?

[651] So several witnesses who live in the area tell detectives, they heard a woman screaming and shouting the night Jane went missing.

[652] I know.

[653] Like, call it what?

[654] One man says he heard a woman screaming, quote, leave me alone, let me out of here, and sees a car drive away in the direction of the spot where Jane's body was found.

[655] Another couple closer to the crime scene, remember blood -curdling cries that stopped mid -scream.

[656] Guys, what the fuck?

[657] I mean, do you call the police at that moment?

[658] They didn't call it in?

[659] No, I don't think so.

[660] It was discovered after the...

[661] Yeah.

[662] So you don't want to be an alarmist?

[663] but those sound like reasons to call the police.

[664] Might as just to check it out.

[665] Right.

[666] Right.

[667] Just to make sure you're right in not freaking out.

[668] Then it turns out that on the night that Sarah Spears had gone missing, witnesses had also heard blood curdling screams less than five miles away in the Mossman Park area between 2 .30 a .m. and 3 a .m., which were, quote, consistent with a female in distress.

[669] But remember, Sarah hadn't been found.

[670] Her body hasn't been found.

[671] found.

[672] But it was in that area.

[673] So one of the witnesses who heard the screams said that when they looked in the direction of the screams, they saw a white or cream -colored car that was parked on the wrong side of the street.

[674] And the screams were heard only about 20 minutes after Sarah was lost spotted outside the club seemingly waiting for a taxi.

[675] So after Jane Rimmer's body is found, Western Australian police launched what they call the macro task force to investigate the disappearance of both Jane and Sarah, and there's massive publicity in this city where women are normally relatively safe.

[676] And then I was thinking about like, well, why, you know, don't leave a bar alone and that sort of thing.

[677] But it seems like it was a bustling area that they were in.

[678] And they, I've walked home a million fucking times.

[679] And like, yeah, you think about walking home from bars in like Silver Lake is probably more dangerous than walking home from a bar in this area.

[680] Right.

[681] And it's like, I, it's.

[682] It's my, it's, I'm familiar.

[683] This is my neighborhood.

[684] Why would I feel unsafe in my neighborhood?

[685] You don't even consider it.

[686] And there's people, that, that's a bummer.

[687] The thing that is very sinister and upsetting to me is people being around.

[688] People disappearing when there's, the group of people around is very scary.

[689] Definitely.

[690] And very like, you know, because that means some, they were targeted.

[691] They were targeted and the person who took them has no fear, too.

[692] Yeah.

[693] And then I was thinking about.

[694] And a plan.

[695] Yeah.

[696] When I'm drinking, I kind of like, get giddy.

[697] And I'm like, I'm just going to walk home and listen to the music and I'm happier.

[698] And so I'm just like, I'm just going to walk.

[699] You know, it's just such a normal thing to do.

[700] Then nine months later, in the early morning hours of March 15, 1997, Sierra Glennon, a 27 -year -old from Mossman Park, also disappeared from the Claremont area.

[701] Sierra was a lawyer and spoke fluent Japanese, so very smart.

[702] She had come home to Perth after a year of backpacking.

[703] overseas, she came back to be a bridesmaid in her sister's wedding that was happening in a week and to return to her job at a law firm.

[704] Like Sarah and Jane, she's out with friends and heading to the continental nightclub when she decides to make her way home.

[705] She kind of hadn't wanted to go out that night.

[706] She did anyways, so she leaves her friends early.

[707] So there's three men at a bus stop.

[708] They see Sierra walking south along Sterling Highway at around 12 .30 a .m. And I don't think this is like a desolate highway.

[709] I feel like it's almost like Wilshire Boulevard where it's just like a main street, you know?

[710] Right.

[711] So they see her interacting with someone in a light colored vehicle that had stopped for her.

[712] And then she disappeared.

[713] And so those witnesses, they become known as the burger boys.

[714] It's these three dudes, Troy Bond, Frank McElroy and Brandon Gray.

[715] They're sitting together a bus stop eating burgers and they had noticed a newer model Holden Commodore station wagon, which looks like an 80s Volvo or Honda station wagon type of thing.

[716] They see it pull up alongside a woman, but they didn't see her talking to the driver through the window, but they didn't continue to watch to see if she got in, although another witness says he did see her get in the car.

[717] Then she disappears.

[718] Ciara is described as a strong in spirit and courageous.

[719] And so her father tells reporters that his daughter is a fighter, and she's going to fight whoever took her.

[720] But sadly, 19 days later on April 3rd, her semi -clothed body is found by a bushwalker who's out looking for marijuana.

[721] And having been, she had been discarded about 25 miles north of Claremont.

[722] And the cause of death is noted as being consistent with a neck injury.

[723] So we later find out that it looks like, you know, knife wounds to the neck.

[724] Same memo.

[725] Yeah.

[726] And they're also placed in the exact same way except mirror images with like their arm up and you know um during the autopsy it's discovered that siara had indeed fought back in fact she had fought her killer so hard that one of her thumbnails is partially torn off and she has her attacker's DNA under her fingernails nice yes but of course it's too early you know it's 97 there's no real testing on DNA at that point So after the disappearance of Jane Rimmer, the Western Australian police had set up the macro task force and to look into the two similar cases, they kind of knew automatically that they're all related.

[727] When Sierra disappears as well, police confirm that they're searching for a serial killer and the Western Australian government offers a $250 ,000 reward, which is the largest ever offered in the state at the time.

[728] They say the serial killer has a pervert victim.

[729] profile, young woman between 18 and 27 with small build, fair complexion, intoxicated and alone.

[730] And it does seem that they, and I don't know of all of them, but some witnesses said that they did seem intoxicated, which is, you know, it's just like they're so targeted at that point.

[731] It's so awful.

[732] Yeah.

[733] Yeah.

[734] So this case becomes fucking huge.

[735] It grabs a ton of public attention.

[736] It's basically like Ted Bundy level attention.

[737] After the Florida, Chioma, murders, you know, the whole town is fucking terrified or the BTK, like basically that someone among us in our small community is committing these horrendous acts and people are terrified.

[738] So detective inspector, Paul Ferguson, leads the inquiry and he has more than 100 investigators on the case.

[739] There are several leads, but the strongest is the CCTV footage of Jane Rimmer and the unidentified man. It's sent to NASA, you know, there's nothing, they can't enhance it in any way.

[740] And it's released in 2008 because police feared that releasing it would have hindered the investigation.

[741] But it's like, maybe someone will recognize the way that person is standing or walking.

[742] You know, it's just who you never fucking know.

[743] Yeah.

[744] It makes me think, though, those, it's when it happens in a place where it never happens, when it happens in a place where people always say it could never happen here, the investigation, unless they call people in right away, which people are learning to do now.

[745] but oftentimes it's that it's that decision making yeah they've been criticized a lot about about the investigation and it's partly because they kept so much secret you know and they kept so much to themselves that people didn't think they were actually doing anything and in some cases you know maybe they weren't following through as well as they should have and maybe the public's help could have done something but in others it's just you know they were keeping everything really under wraps.

[746] The man in the video is never identified.

[747] No evidence is found to link him.

[748] And police also use a woman to reenact Sierra Glennon's night.

[749] So they basically dress her and what she was wearing exactly.

[750] A woman who looks like her has her walked the same path and go to the same bars, but nothing pans out.

[751] The initial focus of the investigation centers on the unidentified vehicles seen at the two locations.

[752] And also, so basically, I think what we were all thinking is taxi drivers it's got to be some yes taxi drivers some fake taxi you know i think everyone independent some kind of independent cab thing of like it's just me and my guy and exactly this weird sign yeah totally which i've fucking gotten in those before like i've gotten in one of those those like every time i'm at at jfk in new york exactly you just do it who cares it's new there's a million of them you wave your arm out in the middle of the street and you get in whatever fucking car stops for you, you know?

[753] Yeah.

[754] You just want to get inside to get up the street.

[755] That's right.

[756] You know, they're 10 minutes away from home.

[757] They're intoxicated.

[758] Everyone gets in a taxi.

[759] It's normal.

[760] It's safe.

[761] It's the safe thing to do is to get in a taxi.

[762] It's the smart choice to make.

[763] Also, it's that idea of somebody sitting in a car with some kind of like a dispatch radio or some kind of a spying on thing where if they hear that the call goes out.

[764] they go but but that's just like this could this could also be me listening to other podcasts about this but that's my that's what it makes it leads me to think about that's a really interesting one wow um like someone who got fired for they couldn't be a cab driver anymore right because they attacked some other young woman you are not far oh you're you're parallel okay you're not yeah but you're it's the mayor Fuck, Karen, why'd you ruin this for me?

[765] Okay, so taxi drivers, of course.

[766] So thousands of taxi drivers licensed in Western Australia are fingerprinted and DNA tested, which was really expensive at the time.

[767] So they actually, the investigators were criticized for that as well.

[768] They find 78 drivers with significant criminal histories.

[769] And because of this, it doesn't lead them to the killer, but standards for eligibility for taxi drivers are raised.

[770] Good.

[771] Yeah, great.

[772] And these 78 drivers are.

[773] are delicensed and there's stricter standards applied to verify that decommission taxis are properly stripped of official insignia and equipment.

[774] Great.

[775] Oh, sorry.

[776] Can I just say this?

[777] Yeah.

[778] What we should be saying, though, about and whoever is in charge because this might not be the police, but the fact that the one young woman went missing and they put up CCTV cameras the next day, that is how things should work.

[779] Definitely.

[780] you know what I mean if something happens and while they're doing all this other stuff it's like now what would have been different to make this better and like not so horrible cameras and then just getting it done yeah that's impressive totally they did that that quickly and that they then did this investigation like found you know all the while they were like yeah at least they had something going on that was positive and getting the DNA prevented even though it's expensive and it's not normal at the time they still did it so they had it on hand and in case in the future something was able to match it, you know?

[781] Yeah.

[782] So though the murders had stopped at this point, over the years, the Macro Task Force is met with both praise and criticism for its handling of the case.

[783] A lot of information is suppressed from the public.

[784] So one of the controversial tactics that Macro used was sending questionnaires to over 110 persons of interests that included questions like, are you the killer?

[785] so yeah really they also relied heavily on international experts they had a lie detector machine imported from another country and this might be the most controversial of them all one task force officer attempted to offer uh sorry one task force officer accepted an offer um from convicted serial killer uh david burney to insist in the investigation so david burney he's from Perth as well.

[786] I think I did him.

[787] I did him episode 94.

[788] It's the Morehouse Murders.

[789] Remember there was that Hounds of Love movie that I talked about that had like portrayed it.

[790] That was so fucking creepy.

[791] And it was him and his wife kidnapping women and then bearing them.

[792] Yeah.

[793] So that one was fucking dark.

[794] And so they went to this monster in the same way.

[795] Remember when Ted Bundy was like offering to help them solve shit.

[796] And you're like, sit down, motherfucker.

[797] well and yeah and what can they offer what can they what can he offer to help you know thoughts thoughts thoughts and feelings i don't know they have nothing to do in jail but unless they know the person or they know the area right they know that that would be a different thing but was this guy just like here's my theories yeah here's how this person probably works here's what his mind is like here's what kind of person he is here's what you know but which if they already have a profile of this person then they don't really need that guy.

[798] They have actually professional people doing it, not a fucking serial killer.

[799] Yeah, it's not, this isn't Silence of the Lambs.

[800] And you're not Dr. Hannibal Lecter that actually was an expert in this before he.

[801] Right.

[802] And knew some people.

[803] The killer, too.

[804] Right.

[805] Yeah, yeah.

[806] Okay.

[807] Good point.

[808] That's right.

[809] He was the boyfriend of a patient.

[810] That's right.

[811] How dare you school me?

[812] I'm so sorry.

[813] I'm so sorry.

[814] well you're right no you're 100 % right what was the patient's name they went in his garage and it was so I know not Bob was it Bob was a weird he gave him the fake name Bob yes that's Hannibal no Bob was the name of the fake name of the the boyfriend Buffalo Bill was the boyfriend yeah so that's Bob because he gave a fake name and then the boyfriend's name who's the patient Steven anything for us Characters not listed on Wikipedia I have to run time, maybe Well, that's bullshit Hold on a second because he says it He says it in the scene before she goes to Yourself Storage Look Inside Yourself Storage Maybe take a bunch of that out, Stephen I think so Not all of it, not all of it Classic Classic.

[815] Speaking of profile, due to the nature of the killings, experts suggest that the Claremont killer was probably a single white male, 25 to 35, lived in the area, appeared trustworthy, organized, social, and probably well educated.

[816] Detective Dan Capwarn replaces Ferguson as the case leader and finds the first suspect in the killings, a man named Lance Williams.

[817] So Lance Williams is a 41 -year -old public servant.

[818] He lives with his parents at Caudisloe, which is close to the hotel where both Spears and Rimmer had spent some of their evening on the night they disappeared.

[819] But it seems like his biggest fault is that he seems to become obsessed with the case, you know, which is always a red fucking flag.

[820] He even occasionally drives around Claremont late at night to conduct his own mini investigation into the murders, he says.

[821] and he even offers women rides home he says because he's worried about them so one time he circles the area more than 30 times and of course this raises red flags for the investigators and they have a young female officer dress up for a night out and act as bait and he does offer the undercover officer a lift and he's immediately arrested so on February 5th, 1998 he's questioned for like 12 to 17 hours it seems and then released and he remains the chief suspect for the most of the next decade and is placed under intense scrutiny with police open they openly follow him and to and from work every day for years his family home is raided a few times listening devices are installed in his office one of one which once crashed through the ceiling onto his desk because the cops were spying on him trying to find out if he was the guy and so in his office they think he's going to admit to it somehow and so they put a recording device in there and it fucking was too heavy and fell through the ceiling onto his desk oh my god he maintains his innocent there's his innocence during the six different interviews he has with police but the public finds out his identity so they also fucking go after him as well of course The thing is, he wasn't lying.

[822] He was obsessed with the case, and he did want to make sure women got home safe.

[823] He's finally declared no longer a person of interest in 2009.

[824] Oh, wow.

[825] Uh -huh.

[826] He didn't fucking do it.

[827] And detective, he's a weirdo, but he didn't do it.

[828] Detective Caporn.

[829] We're all weirdos like he is.

[830] But I think, yeah, but I think the difference, that difference of, and it almost feels like there's a, there's a naivety.

[831] to it of going and offering people rides home puts you squarely in an area you should not be in if you're a dude.

[832] Well, they were right to suspect him and interview him and keep an eye and keep him in as a suspect if they couldn't rule him out.

[833] But Detective Caporn is criticized for having tunnel vision when it came to him as a suspect and just focusing on him.

[834] And Lance William dies in 28.

[835] of cancer at 61 years old.

[836] So, all right.

[837] Well, it turns out that the reason Lance was no longer a person of interest in 2009 is because that year, forensic scientists are finally able to properly test the DNA that had been found under Sierra Glennon's fingernails.

[838] And they recover an unknown male's DNA profile.

[839] And, I mean, they went through so much that I don't get into about how they were able to extract DNA.

[840] And it's these incredible scientists who painstakingly, like, fucking made.

[841] sure that they they really wanted to solve this case.

[842] So when they compared that DNA to the DNA of other sexual assault cases in the area, they matched another unknown male's DNA from an unsolved abduction and rape that had occurred in 1995.

[843] It was a year before the string of murders began.

[844] So in that case, a 17 -year -old girl is walking home after a night out in the same Claremont venue, from the same Claremont venue where Sarah Spears would later leave a year later.

[845] And she had been grabbed from behind, bound and gagged, and then put into a van.

[846] And she was driven to a cemetery.

[847] She's fucking dragged through the dark.

[848] She's raped twice.

[849] This is brutal rape the whole time.

[850] She's like thinking she's going to die.

[851] She purposely doesn't look at him in the face, thinking maybe that'll give her a chance to live if she doesn't see his face.

[852] And amazingly he leaves her alive, but obviously very fucking wounded and it's so awful.

[853] So she survives the assault.

[854] She goes straight to a nearby hospital where her rapist's DNA is recovered.

[855] And they're also able to find fibers from this case that are also on Jane and Sierra, which are rare microscopic blue polyester fibers as well as fibers that match what would have been in a holding Commodore station wagon.

[856] Oh, right.

[857] But again, it doesn't lead to a suspect.

[858] So they have a way to match all these cases and like maybe they'll get more information, you know, they have more information, but they still don't have a person that, you know, it's all unknown male DNA.

[859] So it doesn't lead to a suspect, nor does their report by a security guard who saw a Telstra van leaving the area when the 17 -year -old girl had been raped at around 4 a .m. Detectives do request a list of Telstra employees.

[860] Remember that knife that was found at the crime scene?

[861] who were assigned vans, but that doesn't lead them anywhere either.

[862] They check it and can't find anyone of interest.

[863] So years go by until investigators decide to go through old evidence boxes from other similar crimes in the nearby area and test those for DNA.

[864] So that leads to an evidence box that had just been hanging out from an unsolved 1988 Huntington Dale sexual assault case.

[865] So in 1988, there's a series of prowler incidents in the Huntington Dale area, which is about 30 minutes from Claremont, and they were dubbed the Huntington Prouler.

[866] So there were reports of women's intimates being stolen from clothes lines, as well as a peeping Tom and someone trying to break into houses.

[867] So residents claimed to have seen a figure wearing 90s, women's 90s, dressing gowns, and on one occasion a pair of women's underpants over his head.

[868] so he you know it's kind of like golden state killer where he's just like he steals it and then he puts it on in some way yeah and seems like he wants people to see him in it almost oh like that when he leaves he runs out and that's what he's got on his head yeah wherever yeah wow something like that and so then in february of 1888 an unidentified man breaks into the home into a home and attempts to sexually assault a sleeping 18 year old girl but she's able to to fight him off.

[869] And that attacker runs off and leaves behind.

[870] He had been wearing a silk kimono that seems like he had taken off a clothesline.

[871] And that's left behind.

[872] And that has a semen stain on it.

[873] So in that evidence box, they find that.

[874] It sits in the evidence box for 28 years.

[875] Wow.

[876] Until finally they're able to test the DNA on it.

[877] And it matches the other unknown male DNA from all those cases.

[878] But still, they don't know who the Huntingdale Crowler was.

[879] So they still just have a connection with all the cases, but no identity of a killer.

[880] But man, so insane.

[881] This net is widening of what this guy's been doing and where he's been doing it.

[882] And it's got to feel like you're so close.

[883] You're so close.

[884] You find one more case that matches and you're like, well, we got to find it this, you know, but it's still, it's got to be so frustrating.

[885] Yeah.

[886] So what finally ties it all together or finally leads to what ties it all together, isn't DNA, but fingerprints.

[887] So, during a separate Huntington prowler break -in, the attacker had left behind his fingerprints and palm print on a sliding door, and those prints are finally run through the system when they're looking through old evidence boxes, and a match is found.

[888] So, it's found to this case where there is a known attacker.

[889] So it's in a recent interview with 60 Minutes, a woman named.

[890] named Wendy Davis.

[891] She's now in her 70s.

[892] She was a mother of three and a social worker in 1990.

[893] And she, oh my God, it's just such a heart wrenching, moving interview.

[894] This woman is incredible.

[895] She was a social worker working at her desk at Hollywood Hospital about 30 minutes from Huntington Dale in 1990 when a man comes in her office and asks if he can use the restroom that's right by her desk.

[896] And she glances at the man and like waves him in.

[897] And, to use the bathroom, like, go ahead, not thinking much of it, since the man is wearing a uniform of the telecommunications company that's working on the hospital's phone lines that week.

[898] So she allows him to use the bathroom without much thought, but pretty quickly he comes out, grabs her from behind, puts a rag over her mouth, and fucking yanks her out of her chair and starts pulling her into the bathroom.

[899] And she's like, I don't want to die.

[900] Like, freaks out.

[901] I don't want to die.

[902] She starts fucking fighting back.

[903] I mean, she tells this whole story in the 60 minutes.

[904] I think it's an Australian one.

[905] So you've to find it online.

[906] But she starts kicking and fighting.

[907] She's able to turn herself around and starts fucking wailing on his shins with her fucking high heels.

[908] And so he stops.

[909] And she says just as suddenly as the attack started, it stops.

[910] And she says, the man seems to come out of a trance almost and starts to apologize.

[911] And he's held down until police arrive and on him they find cable ties in his pocket and the man is a 21 -year -old Telstra employee named Bradley Robert Edwards and somehow he is only charged with common assault it's called so and they say in the 60 minutes that you can get a charge of common assault by like yelling a curse word across the street at someone it's just oh it's they don't acknowledge the sexual motivation of the attack.

[912] you know they it's not attempted rape or attempted kidnapping or you know her free will being attack it's none of that he only gets two years probation he doesn't even get fired from his fucking job at telstra right oh jesus despite attacking a woman on the job he does on the job on the job instead a supervisor goes to speak with the victim and tries to assure her that edwards is a good kid who's just under a ton of stress.

[913] Ew.

[914] No. So, yeah.

[915] So, okay.

[916] Finally, though, this leads to the killer.

[917] In December 2016, the prince from the Huntingdale Prouler incident are tested, and they match the prince to the Hollywood hospital case belonging to Bradley, Robert Edwards.

[918] So they finally have a suspect, but they still need his DNA to match the DNA of the unknown killer.

[919] So, all right, who is this asshole?

[920] Well, it turns out that he's still working for Telstra.

[921] He had enjoyed a good career, pay raises, you know, all this shit, moved up in ranks with the company.

[922] He's 46 years old.

[923] He's tall and like a large, well -built man with dark hair.

[924] He looks like a normal dad, this fucking piece of shit.

[925] He's got like cropped hair, clean cut, polo shirts.

[926] you wouldn't think twice.

[927] Yeah, he's, because he's in, he's a hiding, in plain sight.

[928] He's a totally unassuming.

[929] They don't look like monsters.

[930] The monsters don't look like monsters.

[931] He's an unassuming dude.

[932] He had been married twice.

[933] He has a stepdaughter, although he and his second wife were having issues.

[934] And on the weekends, for years, he had worked for like athletic clubs.

[935] The Belmont Little Athletics Clubs were like, you know, like for us to be AYSO, I think.

[936] We're just like kids playing sports.

[937] Sure.

[938] He had been on the committee as a records officer, and by 2007, he had become the club's president.

[939] So he's not some creep in the shadows.

[940] He's fucking out there living a stand -up life.

[941] John Wayne Gasey style, sure.

[942] And he becomes the club's president.

[943] There's even pictures of him in the newspaper receiving an award and stuff.

[944] Wow.

[945] And it's more of the usual unassuming.

[946] Everyone couldn't believe it.

[947] He helped his neighbors with computer.

[948] you know the usual the usual we got an email from a listener who wrote in about him and then so she was she was friends with the family and so as a kid she says quote he was always really nice and charming and the things that sticks out to me the most is he was also one of the most sympathetic people i've ever met in my life so he used he used to drive this little girl and another little girl home every day and um she said because of my religious background i'm not supposed to eat beef but i love it so when he used to pick me up he used to get me McDonald's cheeseburgers it's so spine chilling to me that a serial killer bought me food and i ate it when i was alone in the car with him and that's from the swigata um wow i know right like yeah she like got driven around by a serial killer that's nice and charming sympathetic yes yeah so a surveillance operation begins and with days detectives grab a Sprite bottle that Edwards had thrown away at a movie theater where he watched a movie with his stepdaughter and when the bottles tested it's a match and so finally after 20 years with all the evidence being tied together because the DNA found under Sierra Glennon's fingernails because she fucking fought back it's all tied together and the Claremont serial killer is finally caught.

[949] But you know, you think about this, the common assault charge doesn't get fired from his job.

[950] It's maybe if things had been different, some of these cases wouldn't even have happened, you know, if he had been treated like the sexual predator.

[951] Yeah, if someone didn't go in and fight for his fucking right, his right to assault women and because he was.

[952] stressed out that should just be ignored yeah hey guess what sorry because i'm sure that person heartily regrets even even being involved in that but that was a massive that was a mistake built on misogyny that was a mistake built on um nothing can happen to the boys and the girls just complain a lot and that's fucking bullshit and crazy yeah that person should be i mean i can't imagine living with myself after that and then no that's terrible I'm sure they...

[953] I mean, and it's so sad because in this interview, this woman feels all the guilt, you know?

[954] Right.

[955] The woman who was attacked is like, I should have done more, which, like, they, they didn't even take you seriously.

[956] You couldn't have done more.

[957] You were the victim.

[958] You weren't supposed to be fighting for your...

[959] And also, no, exactly.

[960] It wasn't her job to fight for that or solve the case or do it correctly.

[961] It wasn't her job.

[962] But on top of that, the fact that that happened to her and that she did survive and fought so hard is the reason they ultimately were able to find that guy and solve that case.

[963] So she did more than she did everything.

[964] She's foundational.

[965] That's right.

[966] She's a fucking hero in her story.

[967] Yeah.

[968] Big time.

[969] Yeah.

[970] So when his home is raided, police discover allegedly all kinds of like twisted stuff, kind of like the BTK of like homemade sex toys and women's underwear with holes cut out, violent erotica stories that are like about the abduction and women and porn depicting rape and torture, just really sadistic, you know, stuff that this mild -mannered person wouldn't, we wouldn't think they have it in their, in their house.

[971] And I was brought in for questioning.

[972] Again, mild -mannered, he's calm.

[973] He acts surprised and confused about bringing bought in and speaks openly with the investigators for 12 hours and he politely tells them repeatedly that he has no knowledge of the killings and says he is quote 120 % positive that he had no involvement in the murders or the sexual or the sexual assaults I don't think okay hi red flag yeah the phrasing of that I'm a 120 % positive I'm not involved yeah let because there's a world where you could maybe not be sure yeah like you you either know you are or you're not involved at all.

[974] Right.

[975] There's no, the assuredness that I'm really sure I didn't do anything is basically giving away that you don't know, that your brain is a mystery to you and you don't know what, like, what you're doing.

[976] Right.

[977] Because an innocent person would say, I didn't do that.

[978] I am not the person who did that.

[979] I promised.

[980] I didn't do it.

[981] I'm not sure.

[982] Positive.

[983] I didn't do it.

[984] Yeah.

[985] I'm positive.

[986] I'm not involved.

[987] Oh, okay.

[988] Yeah.

[989] As opposed to what you're secretly keeping in your head of that you are absolutely involved.

[990] It's like giving the opposite answer to the secret in your head gives it away.

[991] Yeah.

[992] But finally, his DNA is tested.

[993] I'm not involved.

[994] Okay, sorry.

[995] Try that next time you're lying, everyone.

[996] Finally, his DNA is tested and he's arrested for the murders of 27 -year -old Sierra Glennon, 23 -year -old Jane Rimmer, and 18 -year -old Sarah Spears, as well as the 1988 Huntington Dale sexual assault of the 18 -year -old woman.

[997] And by the way, he lived in Huntington Dale as a teenager when these prowling incidents were happening.

[998] So that's the connection there.

[999] And two counts of aggravated sexual penetration without consent of the 17 -year -old girl in the Claremont Cemetery in 1995, all of which he pleads innocent for.

[1000] Okay, so he's brought to trial three years later on November 25th, 2019.

[1001] The night before the trial begins, he admits and pleads guilty to both the sexual assault cases, but not the murders.

[1002] He pleads innocent to the murders.

[1003] He's like, okay, I lied about not being involved in the sexual assault cases.

[1004] And essentially, the defense comes down to the argument that the DNA was contaminated, which I think is why he must have pled guilty to the two assaults.

[1005] So he could explain his DNA being in the lab and then saying, you must have used that DNA and got it, you know, mixed up and contaminated with the DNA of the murders, which is fucking smart.

[1006] Because I'm just a rapist.

[1007] I'm just a rapist, not a murderer.

[1008] Yes, my, if you can't explain why your DNA is at any scene, then it shouldn't be in the room at all.

[1009] But if your DNA is supposed to be in the room, because you are involved, you motherfucker.

[1010] That is a cynical, uh, uh, mercenary approach.

[1011] that sounds like it was it was that a bunch people worked on that idea and came up with that strategy it sure does doesn't it dirty yes well also just because the um you're admitting to something that actually is it's it's lending itself much more to the character argument that you are a bad fucking person a sociopath anyway or whatever psychopath the idea that you're just like it's just those it's not this.

[1012] Yeah.

[1013] So maybe I'll get away with the other ones.

[1014] It's an angle, but I think it actually reveals much more about that person.

[1015] Totally.

[1016] In it because Jesus fucking Christ.

[1017] And it wasn't well thought out.

[1018] And yeah.

[1019] And it's like it's, what was I going to say?

[1020] Oh, also the MO fits all of them, you know, in some way or another.

[1021] So and also the fact that this you know, the 17 year old got grabbed off the street and pulled in tied up and pulled into the van makes them makes everyone wonder if that's actually they didn't get into a taxi or an unmarked car maybe one maybe one of them or all of them were attacked on the street and you know kidnapped so yeah and that if he was such a great guy a sympathetic guy a lovely friendly guy that it would be very easy if he's wearing a uniform of this kind of well known that's the thing yes he used he used the company car he wore his uniform other women said that they had seen him in the area and maybe he tried to pick them up at the time they testified to that and he's like at work he's work oh i'm just going to this call for this phone line want me to take you to that area i can take you yeah i'm just this business guy i practically work for the city i'm just like this i'm it's like the culligan manner so it's like yeah the arrowhead spring delivery guy where you're like yes this is the most trustworthy person because he's around he is you know we're saying like it's so sinister when it's in a group of people he makes up a background player in a group of people totally the the guy the phone line guy totally i mean and also the idea that he worked for that company those knives were found at the scenes of the of some bodies you don't mean the other stuff i mean you're in it friend here's well some of the some of the so essentially the defense comes down to the argument that the DNA was contaminated which is you know Um, and that, which is the, the defense is able to show other instances of contamination in, in the case, including several times when the DNA of scientists working on the case was found on samples.

[1022] So, you know, they do have a chance with that plea or that, um, argument.

[1023] You covered that one.

[1024] It wasn't that, um, San Diego.

[1025] San Diego, right.

[1026] But no, but in this actual lab where this DNA was tested.

[1027] Oh.

[1028] Yeah.

[1029] Oh, that's, they weren't just saying it happened in general.

[1030] No. Wow.

[1031] And when I I read that.

[1032] I remember reading it in like March being like, oh, fuck, like this better not get him off.

[1033] And on sample, one instance where the DNA of a victim of a totally unrelated crime had been contaminated with a sample of the Claremont killer.

[1034] But it was all debunked on cross -examination.

[1035] So I don't even know if it's true.

[1036] And then the fiber evidence also forms a significant part of the prosecution's case.

[1037] Remember those blue polyester fibers found on Ms. Rimmer and Sklennon's bodies?

[1038] Well, they matched the Telstra work pants that Edwards would have worn in the mid -90s, which were manufactured specifically for the company using a bespoke color known as Telstra Navy.

[1039] So it all fucking ties back to Telstra.

[1040] And you're like, that's crazy.

[1041] They should have.

[1042] Oh, and there was also fibers that matched the 1996 Holden Commodore that he had driven at the time.

[1043] And you're like, why didn't, why didn't they look more into Telstra employees?

[1044] Why didn't they look at their back, do background checks on all of them, blah, blah, blah.

[1045] So investigators had asked for the names of Telstra workers who would have driven those cars since there had been sightings of those cars.

[1046] Somehow, his fucking name was left off of the list, quote, clerical error or some shit twice.

[1047] So if they had seen his name.

[1048] I wonder if he, they would have seen that he had a prior.

[1049] well, they would have seen he had a common assault charge, not a sexually motivated charge, but maybe he had some charge, they would have looked at it.

[1050] Yeah, they would have seen and maybe been able to go and talk to the victim and see what the real deal was, but also maybe he made it, because clearly he got away with it for a long time.

[1051] So maybe he did something and he had access.

[1052] Absolutely.

[1053] When they were putting those lists together, he had access and the ability to delete his own name off the list?

[1054] Or maybe he went.

[1055] Clearly his fucking supervisors are sympathetic.

[1056] Maybe he went to them and say, hey, I have this charge.

[1057] It was for nothing years ago.

[1058] I don't need them looking into me. Can you just take my name off the list?

[1059] Obviously, it's not me. And maybe they did it.

[1060] Who the fuck knows?

[1061] Maybe.

[1062] Maybe.

[1063] I mean, because it is the thing about these people that are, they're barely people because they're entirely dedicated to creating a mask that you fall for and feel safe with.

[1064] And, yeah, they just manipulate everyone all the time.

[1065] That's crazy.

[1066] So that they don't get caught.

[1067] That's the whole point of their life.

[1068] And also, Telstra had no record of the actual assault in their files that that would even happen.

[1069] So we're going to go ahead and need a report from Telstra.

[1070] That's right.

[1071] We're going to have to do an internal investigation.

[1072] I want Wendy Davis to now own the company, Telstra, and all the money.

[1073] she gets all of it for not being fucking believed and for not being fucking treated the way she should have been treated.

[1074] Sorry, Wendy on Telstra now and she can sell it for millions of dollars.

[1075] Yeah, or just give her some old school stock.

[1076] Yeah.

[1077] So the trial, which is decided, so there's no jury.

[1078] It's just going to be a judge instead of a jury because of the massive public, like everyone knows everything about it.

[1079] And also there's these really gruesome details that they just don't think a jury should see.

[1080] So it's going to be decided.

[1081] upon by a judge.

[1082] So it's 85 days in the courtroom and there's testimony for more than 200 witnesses, 60 ,000 pages of DNA and fiber evidence and 110 gigabytes of data, which in today's gigabytes, I don't know what it is.

[1083] And it's a billion.

[1084] It started last November.

[1085] So they did it through COVID too.

[1086] Like the whole time.

[1087] Well, they're just plowing through.

[1088] Yeah.

[1089] Wow.

[1090] Which is incredible.

[1091] And finally, on Thursday, September 24th, just what, two, three weeks ago, Justice Stephen Hall delivers his verdict.

[1092] So Bradley John Edwards, he's now 51, was found guilty of the murders of Jane Rimmer in 1996 and Sierra Glennon in 1997.

[1093] But unfortunately, he says that though Edwards is likely the killer of Sarah Spears, he felt he couldn't rule it beyond a reasonable doubt because her body had never been found.

[1094] there's no DNA evidence, even though the M .O. is identical.

[1095] So he acquits Edwards on that count, which is so disappointing.

[1096] I don't think he's doing his job.

[1097] Obviously, he wanted him to be found guilty as well.

[1098] But it's just almost like he's being rewarded for hiding her body so well.

[1099] Well, I mean, that's, yeah, that's just how it is.

[1100] But it's that thing of like, especially in a situation where if DNA is questionable in the first place, that guy has to be so meticulous about the rule of law and what exactly is required to get a, you know, like a guilty verdict.

[1101] So I almost wonder.

[1102] Yeah.

[1103] I wonder if almost if there'd be another trial just with Sarah Spears case based on the MO of the other cases that, you know, if it wasn't tried together, that would somehow, you know, because people, I mean, they just would need more.

[1104] I would think they would need more evidence to tip it over because the evidence as such that he's saying isn't going to do the job.

[1105] That's true.

[1106] true.

[1107] That's too bad.

[1108] So sentencing will take place on December 23rd.

[1109] And so finally, after 24 years, Australia's longest running and most expensive criminal investigation when that scarred, the city of Perth finally came to a close.

[1110] There are people who think that there are more victims of Bradley John Edwards that are not yet known, which isn't surprising.

[1111] In the same way, Golden State Killer just stopped, you know, what he was doing or, you know, are there cases from before?

[1112] for the known ones.

[1113] After the verdict, Sierra Glennon's father, Dennis, said that he had made a graveside promise to his daughter to pursue justice for her or die trying.

[1114] He said, quote, that promise, that commitment to Sierra has driven me unwaveringly and unapologetically.

[1115] The family of Jane Rimmer released a statement saying they were pleased to finally have, quote, some answers about the abduction and horrendous murder of our beloved Jane.

[1116] Jane had her whole life ahead of her, and it's almost beyond comprehension that this could have ended in such horrific, heinous circumstances.

[1117] Our family can now take some comfort today, and the healing process can begin.

[1118] Both families agree, however, that the ordeal won't be over until the Spears family has some closure.

[1119] Aw.

[1120] Jane's sister Lee said, quote, we got the result we wanted, and now we just have to keep working for the Spears family and hope someone finds Sarah and that is the story of the Claremont serial killer God, wow it's I think I listen to who is the Australian guy that hosts his show and no one knows who he is Oh yeah, case file case file, yes for sure I listen to the case file about this I think anyone that listen to our podcast we've talked about case file before but if you haven't heard it it's great he does an amazing job on that show and especially Australian based crimes like you're so such a good researcher but yeah it is such a like epic case there the idea that they just closed the book in for those two murders at least yeah it's kind of amazing I mean that's great so many people just never thought it'd be you know and when you think of it in terms of it be perth being pretty small and isolated and just knowing that there's a killer among you that you have no idea when they're going to strike again it's never going to be it would never be safe for a woman to fucking walk home again it's just it's her horrible also it makes me think of you know like what excuse me what billy and paul are doing on murder squad because it doesn't it always come down every time we tell these stories where it's cold case and then something comes up because they have this yeah they have fresh blood in the you know they're people new detectives people that are there's they're dedicating cold case teams to this and people are going into the evidence room and pulling out those old boxes and looking through them i mean not just like doing it the the old fashion way it's always really heartening yes to hear those stories of people who are like we want these solved and we want these families to get justice in some way.

[1121] And not only is the technology changing so they can do DNA testing the way they never could, but our ideas of what a victim is and what a perpetrator is and who could do these crimes and how and why they happen is changing and becoming hopefully less fucking misogynistic so that people can look at the fresh eye.

[1122] a little bit more fact -based because how many stories have we told where it is always these people who everyone says they're great they lent me things from their garage like the way we decide people are good people in this world they don't make problems for me a lot of smiling a small talk and conversation and then you know hopefully you don't ever catch them on that weird day where they decide to kick a cat or something right or you accidentally it's just this bump their car and see the rage suddenly in their face or whatever it's just such superficial like i i hope that if nothing else all the true crime trend just will hit people to the idea that you have to we've talked about this before save that trust for the third date like you if it's your neighbor and he lends you the lawn mower doesn't mean he's a good person like you need to see people out in their day to day and i mean but again like we said with some of these like true psychopaths you would never be able you would never think in a million years because that's they dedicate their lives to being the kind of people you would never suspect wow great job that was really good thank you yeah yeah I like the idea that that's that's one we can we can look at as being solved now yeah thank god yeah all right it's fucking hooray time all right and not a moment too soon amen um let's see this one's from Haley and it says, this fucking hooray is for slash about my fellow murderino, former roommate and best friend, Kendall.

[1123] We just graduated college, which is a fucking hooray in and of itself during 2020.

[1124] And then this bitch started, this is in all caps.

[1125] And then this bitch started law school at fucking Harvard Law.

[1126] She is one of the smartest, hardest, hardest working people I know and she truly cares about this world in politics and fighting for those without a voice.

[1127] She's exactly the type of lawyer that we all know this world needs more of.

[1128] And there's no one more deserving.

[1129] She also did this while being a wonderful friend and daughter while both of her parents are kicking cancer's ass.

[1130] I love her and I'm so fucking proud of her and I can't wait to watch her become a real life, Elwood's fighting for people that need a voice the most as a CGM Haley.

[1131] Hell yeah.

[1132] I love that someone else.

[1133] Way to glow your friend up.

[1134] I know.

[1135] I love that someone else's fucking gray is their friend.

[1136] That's so beautiful.

[1137] She's very proud of her friend who went Harvard fucking law.

[1138] That's badass.

[1139] This is so awesome.

[1140] From Instagram, from Live underscore Desiree.

[1141] Okay.

[1142] My fucking hooray this week are my mom and murderino friends who helped me SSDGM.

[1143] Two of these badass ladies who know my morning walk routine immediately checked in on me when there was a report of two active shooters in our area.

[1144] Within minutes, I had four different friends who checked in every few minutes until I was home safe.

[1145] Women looking after women.

[1146] It's such a beautiful thing.

[1147] If it hadn't been for them, I probably would have walked right through the wrong neighborhood on my way home or taken my usual trail through the woods where the perpetrators were evading police.

[1148] Oh, shh.

[1149] I'm so grateful and so lucky to have the friends that I do.

[1150] Huge thank you to them for making sure my son and I got home safe.

[1151] Wow.

[1152] Beautiful.

[1153] This friend's theme.

[1154] Yeah.

[1155] Here comes the little monkey.

[1156] Let's see.

[1157] This says, fucking hooray.

[1158] I saved a life.

[1159] I'm a 911 dispatcher for a living, so I deal with people's worst day every day.

[1160] Wow.

[1161] I didn't beautifully put it that way.

[1162] Holy shit.

[1163] The other day, I took a call from a teenager that her aunt wasn't responding.

[1164] I got the ambulance on route and we started CPR.

[1165] The paramedics got on scene and she became alert and talked with them and then all caps.

[1166] She walked herself to the ambulance.

[1167] Not the first life save I've had before, but it's always a great feeling because most things don't end that well in my line of work, Stephanie.

[1168] Amazing.

[1169] Amazing.

[1170] Keep it up.

[1171] Yeah.

[1172] This one is called I FaceTime my 95 -year -old great grandma for the first time.

[1173] This is from the fan cult forum.

[1174] And it's sent by Louis Bondui.

[1175] What's up, Louie?

[1176] What's up, Louie?

[1177] Okay.

[1178] My 95 -year -old great -grandma.

[1179] Grandma Dolores is one of my most favorite people on Earth.

[1180] She's a G. Damn Angel.

[1181] She lives two hours up north, and though I have tried to see her at her nursing facility, I've been denied three times even for a window visit.

[1182] She has pretty severe Alzheimer's, so she doesn't really know who I am anymore, but I tried to visit her as often as I could when the world allowed.

[1183] But last night, I found out she's in the hospital and tested positive for COVID.

[1184] Not the best news, but my boyfriend called the hospital and explained.

[1185] that he is a coroner and I work in a funeral home and that our city has seen more cases than the whole country she lives in.

[1186] He then was directed at the hospital coordinator who informed him that I am able to FaceTime her on the hospital's iPad and I got to see her.

[1187] The nurse told her, quote, Lindsay's on the phone and she perked up.

[1188] Her eyes got big and she seemed to know who I was.

[1189] Through tears and some giggles, I finally got to see her one more time.

[1190] I told her I love her, and the nurse said she gripped the iPad tighter and pulled it closer.

[1191] I wish I was there so she could squeeze my hand when I told her I love her like she used to.

[1192] But I knew her grumbles and snickers meant that she loved me too.

[1193] Stay sexy and tell the people you love that you love them any chance you get, Lindsay.

[1194] Oh.

[1195] Wow.

[1196] Yeah.

[1197] Heavy.

[1198] That's nice.

[1199] I mean, it's heavy times.

[1200] Everything's getting real, fucking real.

[1201] And there's people dealing with shit like this.

[1202] you know, trying to get a hold of their relatives who are dying alone in a hospital.

[1203] Like, aside from, aside from the fact that there's no plan, aside from the fact there's no contact tracing, aside from all these other things that are an absolute just collapse of leadership, that idea that there's just no, no one's taken the time just to make this a more workable, livable thing is just, we're going to be dealing with it for a long time.

[1204] We are.

[1205] We totally are.

[1206] Yep.

[1207] But we can say when things are great because there's little things that are and we just keep doing it.

[1208] That's right.

[1209] Look for your point.

[1210] Look for the fucking hooray's in your life.

[1211] And tell them to us on Instagram and Twitter and a fan cult.

[1212] Please.

[1213] Yeah.

[1214] We need it.

[1215] We all need it.

[1216] We really need it.

[1217] I have hummingbirds that there's hummingbirds in my tree and there's hummingbirds in the neighbor's tree.

[1218] And now there's a hummingbird highway between the table.

[1219] That's right outside my window And that's your fucking array I mean that's my fucking array Because also it reflects of how much Time I spend staring at windows And sitting at this desk Being like what the fuck But then it's like Yeah I gotta gotta you know Keep your eye peeled for I pick her at homebirds Traveling at high speeds My fucking hooray is I haven't had a drink in three nights Tonight will be four nights And I'm just trying to take a little time off.

[1220] And it's been great.

[1221] I had this realization that like, oh, you know, all the anxiety and negativity and self -hatred and self -talk you do when you're drunk, it actually will stop if you don't drink.

[1222] It's not like it'll get better.

[1223] It's not like it'll lower it a little bit.

[1224] Like that whole thing will stop.

[1225] There's a way to actually stop it.

[1226] It like hit me. Yeah.

[1227] Oh, 100.

[1228] I don't have to have a hangover ever again.

[1229] If I just completely stop.

[1230] fuck right I know baby steps I'm learning that's right well you know what it is you have to feel the reality of it because you can't conceptualize your way into doing that you just have to go this feels better I'm going to do it until it doesn't feel better and then I'm going to deal with it when it's something else before the moment and for right now you can go I want to do the thing that feels the best to me because especially all things considered yeah let's let's actually aim at good feeling as opposed to habits that we think bring relief.

[1231] Right.

[1232] I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

[1233] So I'm trying something else.

[1234] Right.

[1235] Amen.

[1236] Nice.

[1237] Thanks for listening for two hours to us you guys.

[1238] In this crazy world, we appreciate that you stop by and say hello to your aunts, your crazy aunts.

[1239] Yeah, that's right.

[1240] Oh, we love when you come to visit, honey.

[1241] Oh, God.

[1242] How's the hard candy?

[1243] I have the Christmas cookies you like from last Christmas.

[1244] Let me pull out this tin.

[1245] Oh, Grandma energy.

[1246] Yay.

[1247] Honey.

[1248] The Grandma energy.

[1249] Honey, I'll fix you a plate.

[1250] That's what grandmas do.

[1251] Keep that grandma energy this week.

[1252] If you can't do anything else, then at least just keep a little of your grandma, of someone else's grandma you liked, a cartoon grandma, whatever you need.

[1253] But that's the energy.

[1254] Approach everyone with Grandma energy this week.

[1255] Yes.

[1256] I'll fix you a plate Of course you can come over Grandma's feed everybody Fix your heart a plate Let me fix you a plate Do it Yeah Oh Feed others Yeah And oh and also stay sexy And don't get murdered Goodbye Goodbye Elvis you want a cookie