#1189 - Alex Honnold

[0] Should I do headphones?

[1] It doesn't matter.

[2] Yeah, I like headphones.

[3] I kind of hate hearing myself that a lot, though.

[4] Why, you sound good.

[5] Why do you hate hearing yourself?

[6] Dude.

[7] Try to pull this sucker up, like about a fist from your face.

[8] Good to see again, man. That's been a long time.

[9] It has been.

[10] But the guy like you, it's always nice to see you're still alive.

[11] Oh, you know, I'm doing my best.

[12] Do you get tired of hearing shit like that?

[13] Oh, I don't care.

[14] I mean, do you get tired of, like, the weirdness of, like, interviewing with people, and they're like, you know, you could die.

[15] Is this scary?

[16] Yeah.

[17] Yeah.

[18] That's all right, though.

[19] I mean, the thing is, yeah, it's funny touring with the film.

[20] We've been doing Q &A's every night.

[21] You get the same questions from the audience all the time.

[22] Yeah.

[23] And part of that is tiring.

[24] But then part of it, like, people ask the same questions because they're obvious because everybody wants to know the same things.

[25] And I'm like, I understand that.

[26] One of the weirdest parts of the film is when they're showing all the guys who have died from free soloing.

[27] Yeah, though, actually they didn't all die free soloing.

[28] Oh.

[29] That's actually one of the, that's probably the only thing that I take slight issue with with the film is this slightly hyperbolling.

[30] Because two of them died base jumping and one of them died rope jumping.

[31] They all were free solace, which is kind of what the film is saying, that they're all free solace who have died.

[32] But they all died in the mountains doing mountain -related extreme activities.

[33] Yeah, that doesn't make the story as good.

[34] That's like poetic license.

[35] Yeah.

[36] They got sneaky.

[37] Well, you know.

[38] I mean, they all were free solace, but yeah.

[39] That's not the same, though.

[40] Yeah, no, exactly.

[41] I mean, I prefer it.

[42] The other way to look at it is that no free solace has ever died doing anything cutting edge.

[43] That's my favorite statistic.

[44] What is that I mean?

[45] Like no free solace has ever died doing hard soloing.

[46] Like basically a few free solace have died falling off an easy turn or just falling off sort of routine or, you know, I don't know, just falling off the mountain.

[47] But none of them have ever died while doing something cutting edge, something that had never been done before or something that was, you know, hardcore.

[48] Hmm.

[49] Do you think that's because when you're doing something that's a little bit easier, you relax?

[50] I think that's probably part of it But also I think part of it is just a numbers thing You spend so much time doing easy stuff And so little time doing really hard stuff That you know It's just statistics How much How important is it when you're free soloing To have that edge to be like Really talk cognizant about how intense this is Like if you got too calm and too relaxed No I think that's I think that is kind of the concern for sure And I've noticed that in for myself anyway and I try not to do very much easy soling anymore because there is a certain complacency that over time you just do so much mileage on easy terrain and then you're like, this is so easy, this is so easy, and then you slip and you die.

[51] I'm like, whoa.

[52] You know, fighters look at things that way too.

[53] Like at a certain point in their life, they don't want easy fights because they need to get challenged.

[54] Otherwise, they won't train properly and then they wind up losing to be...

[55] Yeah, you have to take it seriously.

[56] Yeah, well, the difference between a fighter say when they're not trained and not in camp and just their skill and what their body can do without going through a camp is probably only like 70 % of what they are when they actually go through everything with full intensity, eight weeks, two times a day, you know, physical therapy, massage, visualization, conditioning, all the things that make them who they are the day they step into the cage.

[57] Like when you free solo.

[58] It's funny that's so, that's, yeah, I mean, yeah, you saw the film, that's all, uh, exactly the level of preparation that went into it.

[59] Do you take time off before a big free solo?

[60] Do you like, do you, do you rest your body or peak?

[61] No, it's the opposite.

[62] It's the sort of ramping up to it.

[63] Right, but do you, is there any concern that maybe you haven't given yourself enough recuperative time, like, for the day of?

[64] No, well, so for me anyway, it was always sort of the, opposite because the real challenge of free -selling is the psychological side, the mental side of it.

[65] It's not so much the physical.

[66] Like, I don't necessarily have to physically perform at the absolute limit of what I'm capable of, but I have to mentally perform at that level.

[67] And so, and the mental side of it comes so much from confidence and feeling, you know, feeling prepared.

[68] And so, I don't know, so when I, when I free -sol it all cap, I kind of knew that I wasn't actually, like, I'd probably already started to decline a little bit physically over the course of the season because the two months in Yosemite is just kind of grueling on your body.

[69] Like all the time I spent going up and down on the wall and preparing.

[70] It's very, very tiring.

[71] And so I kind of realized that I was starting to get sort of deeply fatigued.

[72] You know, I was sort of a week away from like having started a slump of like, oh, I'm kind of pooped.

[73] But the thing is I knew that because of all that preparation, you know, psychologically I was as good as I was ever going to be.

[74] So even if I was physically starting to be a little bit tired, it's like time to, you know, it's kind of the different curves.

[75] You have to hit it right at the right moment.

[76] Now, is your psychological preparation just you getting your mind into it or do you have like specific techniques you use or a form of meditation or anything that you specifically concentrate on when you're visualizing success or no when it's not even necessarily visualizing success or it's visualizing for me it's visualizing the experience like sort of imagining what everything will feel like imagining what it'll like to place my foot on a hold or what you know grabbing like the sensations of it and the exposure of it you know thinking through what it'll feel like with so much air around me and no rope, you know, just so that basically to make sure that nothing is surprising when I get there.

[77] Dude, my hands are sweating just talking to you.

[78] I'm not kidding.

[79] Feel that.

[80] Feel that.

[81] And that fucking gross, right?

[82] It has a clammy.

[83] I realized it.

[84] Like, when I'm talking about you, I'm thinking about you doing this, and my hands started fucking sweating.

[85] Yeah, you start thinking about thousands of feet air and you're like, oh.

[86] Yeah, I think I start thinking about chalk and powder and that, shit like that.

[87] Oh, God, damn, dude.

[88] have you ever gone to like a sports psychologist or have you ever like actively tried to coordinate a program for mental training or anything like that no not really i mean so with with free selling al cap i found that i needed to create enough space for it's not so much mental training but um but create enough empty time so that i had so that i was able to sort of process so I don't know so I like stopped responding email I erased my social media I like sort of freed up my life and then actually my girlfriend left for sort of the week ahead of time so that I was just totally by myself in my van with nothing going on like no distractions and so that's not exactly you know mental training but it was giving myself the free time that I could just sit around and think about things you know I could process like it in my own terms at my own time when was the last time we talked how many years ago is that so long I feel like it was at least four right oh no I was like six or seven i was it i think so i think it's like 2012 or something during that time how much is changed in your life in terms of the way people perceive what you do and the amount of attention that you get i would imagine that having that alone time now yeah it's much harder yeah yeah no totally it's it's funny i mean i've tried to not let my life get busy over time but it just sort of naturally happens i mean well with success yeah exactly there's so many more to talk to you and yeah yeah when I was reached out to you I reached out to you a couple times but I was like this guy's probably getting fucked with all the time like someone's probably always poking at you and you're just trying to get a foothold like literally just trying to hold on no I mean no I mean I appreciate all the the opportunities I have now and you know I mean I'm very happy with the the way my life has changed over time but certainly when I look back at 10 or 12 years ago when I was just a single 20 year old man living in a car like I had nothing going on you know if I had like one interview in a month I'd be like well it's a big month for media you know and then now on a film tour it's like completely outrageous it's totally the other end of the spectrum now when you're doing this film tour when does the film actually come out no it films like out it's in theaters like you can go see right now but you can't get it on iTunes yet is that what it is oh yeah yeah so so it did a month of festival circling you know earlier in the end of the summer and then it came out in theaters at the end of September, so it's right now.

[89] I think this weekend is its widest release.

[90] It's like 400 theaters all over the country right now.

[91] Wow.

[92] And then in theory, it's through National Geographic, so I think it'll be on television on the channel at some point, and then eventually it'll stream somewhere.

[93] I don't know.

[94] Is it strange all this attention?

[95] Yeah, I mean, well, I don't know.

[96] In some ways, it's a natural extension of all the stuff I've had over the years.

[97] You know, like having a 60 Minutes piece, and many years ago was a bit of a, like, was a flurry of attention.

[98] And so they kind of sort of prepared me in some ways, you know.

[99] But yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, well, you've dealt with this your whole life.

[100] I mean, it's just like an interesting.

[101] Yeah, but I feel like it comes with what I do.

[102] I'm in show business, you know, show business.

[103] That's, you know what I mean?

[104] Yeah, that's fair.

[105] You're a climber.

[106] Yeah.

[107] And the most radical kind of climber.

[108] You know, free solo.

[109] When I think of what you do, I think of quiet tension.

[110] Yeah, that's kind of fair.

[111] Yeah, because it should be sort of meditative and relaxing and quiet, but then obviously you're also sometimes straining your entire body, you know, like trying very hard physically and, yeah.

[112] Well, I remember one of the things you said to me the last time we talked was that it's very mellow because if it ever gets intense, something's gone horribly wrong.

[113] Yeah.

[114] No, I still feel exactly the same way.

[115] I mean, that's, yeah, that's always the challenge is to keep it, keep it relaxed.

[116] But for a guy like you, my perception of a guy like you, who's that person who's doing that activity, then to sort of juxtapose that with this media tour type environment and dealing with all these people, that seems to me like it would be really annoying.

[117] I mean, yeah, it's very different than my normal lifestyle, I guess.

[118] But the thing is, you know, it's sort of an adventure and it's an experience in its own way.

[119] I've been kind of calling it an expedition film tour because I've done a lot of expeditions in my life.

[120] Like last winter I went to Antarctica for a month, and it's not exactly the type of climbing I normally do, and I don't really like being cold.

[121] But you're sort of like, oh, it is a once -in -a -lifetime opportunity to go somewhere.

[122] You know, it was like going to Mars or something.

[123] It was this totally outrageous experience.

[124] We're climbing big rock walls in Antarctica.

[125] You're just living on the glacier, and it's totally different, totally crazy.

[126] You camped out on the glacier?

[127] Yeah, we were just in a tent on a glacier for a month.

[128] Wow.

[129] When you do that, how thick a pad do you use?

[130] Like really thick.

[131] Yeah, really thick, and a very, very thick sleeping bag.

[132] Do you ever get warm inside of all that?

[133] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[134] In your sleep bag, it's a negative 40 degree sleeping bag.

[135] I mean, it's pretty legit.

[136] Wow.

[137] But anyway, I mean, so that kind of experience, you know, in some ways it's very comparable to a film tour.

[138] I'm like, this is going to be a once -in -a -lifetime thing.

[139] You just embrace it.

[140] You go with it.

[141] You know, it's different than the way you normally choose to live your life.

[142] But that kind of makes it interesting, you know, it's something new.

[143] Well, I can imagine it would be very interesting.

[144] Yeah.

[145] The Antarctica thing sounds like a trip.

[146] Yeah.

[147] Like, were you traveling on an established corridor?

[148] No, no, it's, well, so some people had climbed in the region before, but we actually did tons of first -a -sense, like roots and summits that had never been climbed.

[149] Wow.

[150] Yeah, it's pretty cool.

[151] Now, when you do something like that, do you map it out in advance?

[152] I mean, well, not really, because, I mean, they're photos of the formations, and people, like I said, had climbed some of them.

[153] Some Norwegians had sort of pioneered the area and written a book about it.

[154] but then it's not until you get there that you can really decide what you're going to climb and how it looks.

[155] I mean, ultimately you have to look at the rock and see if it's climbable.

[156] And so you basically just have to ski up and then touch it and see what you can do and then try to climb it.

[157] You ski up?

[158] Well, yeah, because you're living on a glacier and I mean, you have to ski everywhere.

[159] Wow.

[160] Yeah, that was cool.

[161] I did a month wearing only ski boots or climbing shoes.

[162] Wow.

[163] Or my bedroom slippers are on camp.

[164] What did your feet feel like?

[165] Oh, actually, okay.

[166] No, we're in really thick socks and then keeping everything as warm as possible.

[167] But, yeah, I mean, wearing climbing shoes in Antarctica is pretty chilly.

[168] Yeah, I would imagine.

[169] Yeah.

[170] Actually, there's a film about that coming out in a couple of weeks, I think.

[171] As part of the Real Rock Tour, it's like a big climbing film festival thing or film tour that sort of shows around the world.

[172] But so it's like a 40 -minute short.

[173] Or 30 -minute short.

[174] I haven't seen any yet, but...

[175] Those shoes that you wear on a normal climb are very flexible, or those Las Portiva's, Is that what they're?

[176] Yeah, that's what I wear, yeah.

[177] They're very, they almost look like a sock with, like, a rubber bottom to it where you could really kind of grip.

[178] Yeah, it depends.

[179] So some are super soft like that.

[180] It depends on what you're trying to climb, and some are really rigid so that you can step on a really small holds and it supports your foot.

[181] So, like, what I was wearing, free -soling all cap is, like, quite rigid, actually.

[182] It's like a board, like a platform so that you can put just the tip of your toe on something really small, and your foot will stay flat.

[183] More like a mountaineering type of a boot.

[184] Yeah, kind of, but still also very precise.

[185] The mountaineering boot, you think clunky and big.

[186] Right.

[187] Climbing shoe is like a ballet slipper, like precise and tight, but then also rigid sometimes.

[188] Yeah.

[189] And then also, I don't know, you know, when you're climbing cracks, you put your foot into the crack and then you torque it sideways to like lock it into place.

[190] And so the stiffer the shoe is, the more it can, you know, the more that you can lock the shoe into place as opposed to your foot.

[191] You basically have to use fewer muscles that way.

[192] Are you starting a trend?

[193] Are there other people that are following your footsteps now?

[194] Actually, what do you think?

[195] I think probably yeah you think you honestly think that yeah I think there's probably some people that look at what you're doing and young kids that think it must be you know here's what I think most people look at the path that the average person takes in life you know I want to sell cars I'm going to be an insurance guy and they look at it like it's death if they look at a kid a young kid who's like enjoying playing with his friends or doing sports or playing video games or reading comic books and then you look at what could be the average path that the average person takes in life and sitting in an office all day under fluorescent lights and it looks like death.

[196] It looks like a slow, aching death.

[197] But then I look at someone like you, I'm like, wow, this guy is living a special life.

[198] This is a special life.

[199] So ideally, though, somebody would look at it and see that.

[200] Like, this is somebody living a very intentional life or having chosen a certain path.

[201] Yes.

[202] Not necessarily free -selling.

[203] I mean, I would love to inspire people to live an intentional life that they care about.

[204] Yes.

[205] I don't necessarily feel like people all need to go free solar.

[206] Right.

[207] Well, I think that's a very good way of describing it and a very good way of putting it because I think you most certainly have influenced people in that regard.

[208] But I think also people must be influenced in the sense that they see where you're doing is, man, there's moments that you must experience while you are climbing these incredible faces.

[209] that are kind of magical.

[210] When you're up there, you're a thousand feet up there.

[211] The view is fucking spectacular, and you're doing it.

[212] And you get to the top of these things.

[213] The rush and the feeling of accomplishment and the euphoria and just the glory of nature from that perspective.

[214] Yeah, totally.

[215] Like, look at this.

[216] Woo!

[217] You could fucking wash your clothes on the sweat that's in my hands right now.

[218] Man, that's that fucking.

[219] pictures insane.

[220] We're looking at, what is the name of this photo, Jamie?

[221] It's the Enduro Corner from El Cap.

[222] That's actually, that's the movie poster, too.

[223] Fuck, man. That is so amazing.

[224] So that, that, that is not sitting in a cubicle.

[225] That is not fluorescent light.

[226] Well, that is the end of a very long path that you have to choose and, and really cultivate.

[227] You know, I mean, that's, that's for me, 23 years of sort of going in a, or 22 two years or something, of going down a very specific path.

[228] Very specific.

[229] You know, and you're still, do you have a different van or are you still in the same van?

[230] I'm in a better van than last time I was here.

[231] Oh, nice.

[232] Moving on up.

[233] Yeah, yeah, moved up.

[234] That's pretty exciting.

[235] And I have a house now.

[236] Oh.

[237] You live in like a real person too?

[238] No, I live in Las Vegas now.

[239] Do you really?

[240] Yeah, yeah.

[241] Why Las Vegas?

[242] Dude, the best, best four -season climbing in the country.

[243] I love Las Vegas.

[244] Yeah, there's climbing everywhere and it's super accessible and it's easy and it's like cheap cost of living, you know no traffic like everything is easy about i love Vegas that's cool yeah um whenever i go to Vegas i always look at the mountains outside of it yeah exactly they're right there and nobody even looks at them yeah from my driveway you can see 2 ,000 foot walls i mean you can be climbing on a two thousand foot wall and you know 25 minute drive 20 minute drive that's interesting yeah a lot of people like to run those mountains too run those hills there's a lot of trail runners that live in that area as well yeah totally yeah the west side of town you're like in the mountains i mean I can go mountain biking, I can go hiking, I can go climbing all in, you know, 20 minutes.

[245] Yeah, Vegas is kind of a misunderstood place.

[246] Yeah, no, it really is.

[247] Everyone just thinks the strip, but it's like, it's not really the strip.

[248] It's like the mountains all around it.

[249] Yeah.

[250] But Vegas is like in a bowl of mountains.

[251] I mean, all sides of it are surrounded by mountains.

[252] Well, Nevada in general kind of gets a weird map because of, yeah.

[253] I know people think of the desert in Nevada, but really it's mountains.

[254] I mean, it's like series of mountain ranges all the way across the state.

[255] Yeah, it really is.

[256] I have a buddy who lives in Reno.

[257] He lives outside of Reno.

[258] know.

[259] And if you went near where he lives, you'd be like, where are we, Colorado?

[260] Yeah, exactly.

[261] Exactly.

[262] Like, Tahoe area?

[263] Yeah, like Tahoe is right there.

[264] And, you know, in Truckee, like, Donner.

[265] I mean, there's a bunch of climbing areas right there.

[266] They're great and freaking skiing all winter.

[267] It's pretty cool.

[268] How old do you know?

[269] I'm 33.

[270] Do you feel any difference in the way your body responds to doing this on a regular basis now?

[271] Maybe a little bit.

[272] I mean, I hate to say I'm getting old and everything.

[273] But I think, especially right now with the film tour, the amount of travel.

[274] Like, I'm more intentional about my diet and stuff now and trying to get enough sleep and things like that.

[275] Certainly, you know, 10 years ago, I could just eat a whole tray of Oreos and be like, all right, I feel great.

[276] Let's go climbing the gym.

[277] It'll be fun, you know?

[278] Yeah.

[279] Now I'm like, oh, man, I want my green smoothie.

[280] I want to get my night's sleep.

[281] Right.

[282] You know.

[283] Yeah, I saw that you're not eating meat anymore and that you eat a lot of vegetables.

[284] And do you get your blood work done or do you, do you have to work with a nutritionist?

[285] No. Do you eat eggs?

[286] Yeah.

[287] Yeah, I eat eggs.

[288] Okay, good.

[289] Yeah, and I mean, I have cheese and stuff.

[290] And, and I mean, even meat, so I mean, I gave up eating meat for environmental reasons mostly, like basically impact on the earth.

[291] And so I'm not fundamentally poised, you know, like I'll eat meat from time and time.

[292] Certainly for cultural norms, like, you know, I was in Japan earlier this year.

[293] And so I ate fish there a bit just because I felt like it was part of the sort of Japanese travel experience.

[294] If someone hunted it, would you eat it?

[295] Yeah, yeah, sometimes.

[296] But the thing is I just don't feel like I need to intentionally kill another creature for me to survive.

[297] And so if somebody was going to go hunting for me to eat, I'd be like, no, that's fine.

[298] I'm just, you know, like I'm going to need that.

[299] But then, like, on an expedition to Antarctica, I ate a bunch of random meat just because it's like, it's already there.

[300] You know, the other team members have already brought it.

[301] I'm sort of like, well, I'm hungry.

[302] I'm going to eat whatever.

[303] Right.

[304] Right, you know.

[305] Mollusks are actually a good thing for people to look into that are vegan or vegetarian, and they don't want to eat meat because they're actually more primitive even than vegetables.

[306] Mollocks?

[307] Yeah, like clams and scallops.

[308] They're incredibly primitive.

[309] They have no feelings.

[310] They don't feel anything.

[311] There's an argument that could be made that plants communicate far more than mollusks.

[312] like lobs like oysters rather mussels yeah but there's a protein to them that's similar to an animal protein but an incredibly primitive no what I mean insect protein I think is sort of a potential future of humanity too but yeah I'm not I'm not fundamentally opposed to eating insects but it's just you know they're rarely served but I would just imagine that particularly as you get older like nutrition would be a major factor making sure you get the proper amount of essential fatty acids and making sure that because your brain must be like you have to fuel your brain in terms of like giving your your brain the building blocks for neurotransmitters and all these different things that you're you're using when you're you've got this intense concentration for many many hours at a time and you're not eating when you're doing these things sometimes you do you stop and you eat something yeah yeah I mean you have to I mean if you're coming or multiple hours sometimes little bars or, you know, nut butter, a fair amount.

[313] Nut butter, right?

[314] Yeah.

[315] Do you have those F bombs?

[316] Do you ever take those?

[317] I don't know what that is.

[318] What is that?

[319] Oh, they're great.

[320] I have a whole box of them.

[321] I'll give you some.

[322] They send them to here.

[323] Yeah, it's called, uh, it's called F bomb, like fat bomb, but it's all like nut butter and oils and it comes in a packet.

[324] You just rip the top of the package off and squeeze it in your mouth.

[325] I had three of them this morning.

[326] Oh, wow.

[327] They're really good.

[328] It's really healthy.

[329] I do have them.

[330] I do have them.

[331] I do have them in the back.

[332] that's interesting um yes that is it tell jeff there's a box of them um in my office over there i would totally try this floor that's like exactly you know where the box is just go you can go run in and grab them go run into that door uh run into the the office door and like sitting right in the front to the right hand side there's a box of them yeah that that's exactly what i'm talking about the nut butterwise yeah i eat the shit out of those things i eat like three or four of them in the morning when i'm out headed out the door with a cup of coffee not like a lot of that's a lot of that though that's just a lot of calories out there i'm doing this uh sober october fitness challenge with my friends i've been working out i'm not no bullshit as much as five hours in a day because i'm i'm trying to win this we have a w w w e style championship belt it says intercontinental champion sober october or intergalactic champion so the sober part though does that mean you're not no pot no booze no nothing oh wow yeah here's so you're just clean living for all of October and training your freaking brain out yeah well we're wearing these things we're wearing these belts that measure your heart rate and they also quantify your performance like how much calories you've burned and there it is he can take that that stuff's the shit what flavor is that one macadamia pecan with sea salt fantastic stuff I look the chocolate and sea salt one too yeah I'll look through in a sample yeah those are good that's cool it's a real healthy it's you know just what you it's really what you need actually that's the ingredients oh yeah yeah no it seems awesome yeah and you just tear you you you smush them up and you tear the top and you just squirt in your mouth yeah i i do that climbing a lot i kind of prefer that to to um you know gels or goo or whatever you want to call it because if that's just pure sugar i'd kind of prefer to have pure fat yes certainly for climbing um it's just not like in it's not like running or cycling or something where your engine just burning nonstop where you kind of need to just like pump sugar into it Yeah.

[333] It's kind of a longer slow burn.

[334] You can eat fat for sure.

[335] Do you ever mess around with neutropics at all?

[336] I've never even heard that word.

[337] Neutropics are the building blocks for human neurotransmitters.

[338] It's like they're supplements that enhance cognitive function.

[339] Some of them are like standard what you would get at like GNC.

[340] You wouldn't think of as a neutropic, but they're finding out they are like creatine.

[341] They're finding out creatine is actually a pretty potent neutropic.

[342] It actually enhances cognitive performance.

[343] But there's one called Alpha Brain that my company has.

[344] I'll send a bunch of it to you.

[345] There's another company called Neuro 1 that makes a great one.

[346] You know what Bill Romanowski is?

[347] I'm not sure.

[348] Former NFL player who took a lot of hits.

[349] Is he Patriots?

[350] No. Was he?

[351] It's mostly on the Broncos.

[352] Yeah.

[353] Oh, yeah.

[354] Crazy animal.

[355] And during his day, you know, obviously sustained a lot of head injuries.

[356] and wanted to find some sort of a natural way to replenish his brain function.

[357] So he created this company called Neuro1.

[358] And this is how I found out about Neutropics is through his product.

[359] It's fantastic.

[360] Great stuff.

[361] It's just powder.

[362] You put it in water, shake it up.

[363] It actually has protein and a bunch of different neurotransmitters in it.

[364] But it's really good for enhancing function.

[365] Interesting.

[366] Yeah.

[367] I wonder if it actually works.

[368] Yeah, it does.

[369] Well, Alpha Brain, my company, we had two double -blind placebo -controlled studies with the Boston Center for Memory that showed improvements in verbal memory, in reaction time, in peak alpha flow state.

[370] So what is peak alpha flow state?

[371] That's a good question.

[372] You have to like go.

[373] Okay.

[374] You have to dive into it.

[375] Yeah.

[376] All the, if you go to Onit .com, all the tests are available.

[377] You can go over like what it means.

[378] but what you find from these another one called true brain that what is that guy's name that he was a guest to the podcast dr andrew no that's Andy Galpin there's my point is besides my company there's a bunch of companies and make really good ones and they're they're fantastic if you have to give speeches or if you have to talk if you do any of the things like that I do like commentary I always thought you just go straight cocaine you're all fired up you just give a great talk anything you're like methamphetamines you know you just get all fired up that would that's a question I had for you too like how many people that are doing what you do are on either Adderall or they take things like beta blockers that sort of honestly I was so I think nobody but I mean a lot of climbers smoke a lot of weed or you know nowadays I don't even know what you do with it because you don't even know how to smoke it I don't know you just yeah you just or yeah you like drink it and stuff I don't know there's so many like cannabis things now but um but no I don't know so I I've never really done drugs.

[379] I don't.

[380] I'm not totally interested, so I don't really know anything about it.

[381] But I don't know.

[382] It's interesting because it's not like anyone's drug testing climbers unless they're competing at the World Cup level or it's actually going to be in the Olympics in 2020.

[383] But climbing is?

[384] Yeah, climbing is.

[385] It's like a demonstration.

[386] So do they have an event like in terms of like a pathway that you have to go through?

[387] No. So it's, well, so World Cup climbing breaks into three disciplines.

[388] Like lead climbing, which is like a same as the indoor wall and then bouldering, which is shorter without a rope.

[389] You know, you just climb 12.

[390] feet or whatever and then speed climbing where it's like a preset course everyone does the exact same course but you just go as fast as you can just against the timer and so normally those are three disciplines for the world cup but the olympic format combines all three into one competition because they're limited by how many medals and whatever because it's like a demonstration sport they're just sort of you know it's it's smaller scale than than some of the other sports in the olympics but so um yeah so basically climbing competitors just have to do all three disciplines and and then see who wins I was watching something on YouTube where they had this climbing competition where they, like, ready, said, go.

[391] And then they, like, shot up the side of this thing.

[392] That's the speed climbing.

[393] And this lady who's wearing a burqa, is she, like, famous or something?

[394] No, I don't know.

[395] But there are a bunch of really strong Iranian speed climbers, and so I wouldn't be surprised if it's part of that.

[396] She ran up at like a spider.

[397] It was crazy to watch.

[398] Yeah, for whatever reason, speed climbing is really big in Eastern Europe.

[399] And then there are a couple really good Iranian speed climbers.

[400] and yeah they're just it's like it's sort of its own little niche sport coming out of certain parts of the world that is well there's some strong jeans over there in Iran like a lot of great wrestlers kind of I don't know I don't know if the woman you're talking about it is from there I'm thinking of one specific dude who is so muscular here is portrait in speed iranian speed climber farnaz spell that Smael Zada he I think you pretty much got that that yeah what i want to see the video that i want to see you yeah see if you can find the video of her because she's a fucking spider man she just runs up the side of that hill he's gonna browse the internet yes he could find out yeah anyway but so with the uh with the new olympic style climbing i mean obviously they'll be drug testing and with the world cup there's drug testing but it's funny with the but nobody really uses performance and hands and drugs i don't think they um like one coffee or anything i'm good thank you one uh one world cup climber had a taken away for having used recreational cocaine and he was like oh I'm really sorry I'm sorry I did coke but he was like it was more for the partying than the performance you know there she is look at her dude this lady's I mean for a guy like you is that impressive like what see that play that from the beginning that's that's that's pretty fast that's not as fast I mean if you watch some of the more elite times it's it's faster for sure um women or men both I think I don't think that's the faster than that?

[401] I think so.

[402] I don't know.

[403] Wow.

[404] I don't know, man. Well, you're the guy who would know.

[405] To me, that's damn impressive.

[406] Just look up a world record.

[407] I mean, I think the male record is like 5 .7 seconds or 6 seconds.

[408] It's like something really, really fast.

[409] Now, do they know this path in advance?

[410] Yeah, so that's exactly the same route for everybody always.

[411] Same distance, same holds.

[412] And so you basically memorize the sequence, and then you just perform it as fast as you can.

[413] So here we go.

[414] Here's the world record.

[415] Oh, is this the...

[416] So you stand on that thing?

[417] Yeah, so the timer starts when your one foot comes off the timer on the ground, and then it ends when you slap the thing on the top.

[418] Oh, my God.

[419] Oh, my God.

[420] That doesn't look real.

[421] Yeah, look at that five point, whatever seconds.

[422] Oh, my God, that doesn't look real?

[423] That looks like...

[424] Doesn't it look like he's just running, like, on the sidewalk?

[425] It looks like it's flat, like he's on the ground, and they're faking it for the camera.

[426] For the camera.

[427] That's insane.

[428] Now, do these guys free solo, or did they specifically concentrate?

[429] trade on this.

[430] No, no, I mean, imagine if you were free -soling like this, you would die for sure.

[431] I would think that beta blockers would be something that someone who free solos would want to look into.

[432] I don't know what that is.

[433] Beta blockers are something that blocks your brain's production of adrenaline.

[434] Oh.

[435] But I mean, I don't know if you'd want that, though, because the things if you have an adrenaline spike, it's because something weird went on and you probably want to, like, I've had a couple times where I like broke a hold off or something, like all of a sudden your hold rips off and then you have that like superhuman surge of like and you grab back on yeah you don't want to be mellow at that time yeah exactly you don't want to be like i'm so relaxed as i fall all the way to the valley floor you know it's like you want to freaking hold on one of the things in the film was one of the guys who fell and i guess eventually died he was doing it he fell and base jumped yeah with a parachute he called a free basing he sort of pioneered that that sport as it were but um it seems like a good thing to have on your back well not really So, yeah, I mean, the idea makes sense that if you're going to fall off a cliff, have a parachute.

[436] The thing is that you need to be on a very specific kind of cliff, like what he was on, where it was overhanging so that when he fell, he cleared the wall and he, like, floated out in a space.

[437] But the thing is, in Yosemite, all the walls are slightly less than vertical, in general, and so it means that you just tumble down the wall, you know?

[438] And the other thing is that even if you have a parachute, parachute's function as a wing, you know, like they have a direction to them, like air comes into them and you fly in a direction, which means that you have to be facing away from the wall when you open your parachute, or else you just fly right into the wall and crash.

[439] Yeah.

[440] So it basically means that if you fall off unexpectedly, you then have to track away from the wall, write yourself in midair, you know, correct for everything, and then make sure you're facing the right way.

[441] You know, it's like basically there are a lot of things that have to go right for the parachute to help you.

[442] But, yeah.

[443] Okay.

[444] That's not good.

[445] Yeah, I mean, it's one of the, a lot of people ask that they're like, oh, why don't you wear a parachute?

[446] And you're like, well, it's basically this 10 -pound training weight that doesn't really help you much.

[447] Well, that guy just jumped on purpose.

[448] Yeah, this is, oh, whoa.

[449] yeah so this guy so this is on the Iger though it looks like I think um and you can yes he's like jumping away he's getting a nice controlled opening he's like flying away from the cliff it's like everything is going right for him but imagine if one of his footholes just broke and he started pinwheeling down the wall it's like you'd never get the separation from the wall would be a disaster but let's just watch extreme sports videos and I'll just commentate on him the whole time I just be like all right well this guy's surely gonna have a disaster Well, one of the things from the video, when they were talking about all the people that have died, that essentially everyone from the past that was a free soloer is dead.

[450] And you're saying there's other things that they were doing, like base jumping.

[451] Yeah, like base jumping.

[452] And even there are a couple older soloists.

[453] I mean, in the film, Peter Croft, who is like a legendary soloist, and he's a childhood hero of mine.

[454] And he's, you know, I don't want to say push in 60 because I'm not sure how old Peter is.

[455] But he's, you know, he's an older, he's a distinguished gentleman.

[456] And he's living in the eastern Sierra.

[457] He's climbing all the time.

[458] He's, like, loving life with his wife.

[459] Actually, he's in Greece on a sport climbing vacation right now.

[460] Just climbing for two months.

[461] Just fun climbing with a rope, having a great time.

[462] And so, you know, I look at something like Peter, and he was free -soling at the very cutting edge for 20 years, basically.

[463] And it's still just a happy climber now.

[464] But does he free solo anymore?

[465] It just climbs.

[466] Well, so it's funny.

[467] So I had dinner with him a couple years ago.

[468] And I was like, oh, Peter, at what point did you quit soloing at sort of an elite level?

[469] You know, like, when did you sort of back off the grades?

[470] And he was like, well, actually, I did one of the, technically, by the numbers, I did one of my hardest free solos a couple years ago.

[471] But it was like a sport route at his local crag.

[472] So, like, a route that he would routinely climb for fitness.

[473] They just happened to be a pretty hard number.

[474] You know, like, climbing grades are all sort of categorized.

[475] And so he was like, yeah, technically one of my hardest solos was just recently.

[476] But it's like a hard number, but not nearly as much of an undertaking as some of the big solos that he'd done in the past, like some of the walls that he'd soled in Yosemite back in the day.

[477] you know and so he was like oh it's all just kind of how you define difficulty you know now when when you say that there's a number system that sort of rates what like how difficult a free solo path is well no the rates climbing in general with a rope or without a rope is just it just rates how hard a climb is what is L cap well so the route that I climbed is it's 512d for whatever that means or maybe it's 13a depending how you depending on what you want to call it but um what does that mean yeah exactly so the the climbing climbing grades are defined I don't know so in America it's by the YSemite decimal system and it's a classification of terrain from one to one to six YSemite decibels yeah decimal system yeah YDS but it's other parts of the world have different systems and like in Australia it's just an open -ended numbers from 1 to 38 or something where it's like they get progressively harder oh there it is right here yeah there yeah climbing grade Comparances.

[478] Oh, so there's Yosemite.

[479] That's interesting that one area.

[480] They all do it differently.

[481] It was because climbing culture grew up in all different parts of the world.

[482] Right.

[483] And climbing culture, I guess, is a big part of Yosemite.

[484] Yeah.

[485] Well, yeah.

[486] I mean, climbing as a sport in the U .S. is sort of birthed from Yosemite.

[487] I mean, the history of alpinism or climbing, rock climbing anyway, certainly comes from Yosemite in the U .S. Is it just because the paths are so cool that it just drew people to it?

[488] Yeah, partially.

[489] I mean, yeah, the summits are so striking.

[490] And I think a lot of it also just had to do with just culture, because a big part of it was people from L .A. and the Bay Area who probably had some sense of classical alpinism from the Alps, you know, people who had traveled to some extent and then wanted to, you know, climb other mountains, and then they happened to live near one of the most iconic areas in the world.

[491] And so then, I don't know.

[492] But anyway, so it winds up being called the 70 decimal system.

[493] But, yeah, so basically it's the, it's categories of terrain so one being walking on a normal trail two being like scrambling a little bit three being like scrambling with your hands and feet up you know rocks and then fourth class being like sort of like climbing but easier and then fifth class being actual rock climbing and so then it was 5 .1 through 9 depending on how how hard things are you know so 5 .1 being pretty easy 5 .9 being pretty hard like you're rock climbing now and it's technical and then at a certain point that system wasn't adequate, so they had to start adding, you know, 5 .10, and then they subdivided into ABCD, and then 5 .11, ABCD, and then 5 .12.

[494] And so now it's an open -ended system that right now goes up to 516, basically.

[495] Whoa.

[496] And L -CAP is...

[497] It's really complicated.

[498] Yeah, but so L -CAP is 12D, or, you know, 5 .12D, or maybe 5 .13A, which is the next grade up.

[499] It's all sort of...

[500] Wow.

[501] But so basically that means that it's elite, like, that's very difficult and something that like obviously an average person can't do but it's definitely not close to the physical limit of what's been done in the world but that's with a rope on and that's after you know years of practice and what's the physical limit like what is the peak of well right now the hardest grade in the world is 15d which is extremely hard i mean it's totally crazy but so one guy this check guy has done one route that he called 15d and so it hasn't been repeated so it's not like an established consensus but there are several 15 Cs in the world and there there are many 15 Bs in the world.

[502] Where's this 15D?

[503] It's in a cave in Norway.

[504] I mean, it's, yeah, that's the kind of interesting thing about climbing grades and climbing difficulties, is that they're all spread around the world, the very specific cliffs, because it requires just the right combination of angle and holds.

[505] You know, there have to be enough things to hold on to, but not too many or else it's easier.

[506] Right.

[507] And so for, you know, an elite climber, they're basically searching the world all the time trying to find that right mixture of rock.

[508] Wow, what a strange existence it's really it's really niche yeah it's very unusual now when you hear but it's also kind of elemental in a way you know because rocks are just out there and you're basically just going and exploring nature until you find the right kind of challenge well yeah there's got there's some sort of a primal satisfaction that comes from climbing something right yeah there's a certain yeah there's an elemental quality for sure where you're like this is something that just exists in the world and you just yes yeah this is this is this is this is adamander this check kid climbing 15 god documentary coming out about it, I guess.

[509] No, it's already out.

[510] It's a short on line.

[511] Actually, um...

[512] It's called silence?

[513] Yeah, the root he put up, he called silence.

[514] But, uh, if this is the film, just scrub all the way to the very...

[515] Oh, that's the trailer.

[516] Yeah, but so you can see he's climbing feet first through some of it and it's totally extreme.

[517] So this guy, Adam Andre, is, is for sure the strongest climber in the world right now.

[518] Like physical?

[519] Yeah, physically.

[520] So he's, he put up the world's first 15C and the first 15D.

[521] So he's basically pushed the edge of difficulty for the last several grades.

[522] Wow.

[523] And, uh, and he's just...

[524] freakishly strong.

[525] Is that something that you would have to be to do what he's doing?

[526] Like a regular climber couldn't do what he's doing.

[527] It's almost like acrobatic involved.

[528] Yeah, look at what he's doing right there.

[529] Oh, my God.

[530] So this is the world's first 15C.

[531] So it's slightly easier.

[532] He did this several years ago.

[533] But it's like, and then you hear him like, yeah, but that's where he has a rope, you know, and he tries that over and over and over.

[534] But, yeah, he's an amazing climber.

[535] He's really, he's like a polymath.

[536] He's great at every discipline.

[537] What else does he do?

[538] So he, have you heard it the Donwall on El Cap?

[539] No. So Tommy Caldwell, you know who he is?

[540] No. He's, he was, I don't know, yeah, he's basically one of America's best climbers.

[541] He did this route called the Donwall, which is also a film in theaters, or was in theaters last month.

[542] It's sort of random that two big climbing films came out exactly the same time, but it's just one of those freak things.

[543] but so the Donwall was considered the hardest climb in the world to some extent it's this thing it was a seven year project for him up up the right side of El Cap the thing I climbed is on the left side of cap he climbed something on the right side which is much harder but he was using a rope and put seven years of work into it and anyway and then this guy Adam Ander who were watching a video of he did the second ascent and he put like a month of work into it and repeated it and you're just like whoa he's really really strong wow so when you see a guy do something like that does that make you think about doing it or do you go that's only something that someone can do with with ropes oh yeah no i mean their whole categories of climbing they can only be done with a rope because the moves are way too insecure you fall off way too often i mean anything that guy fall off doing that oh like hundreds or maybe even thousands of times i mean for so for him to uh for him to do something at the oh my heart yeah i mean to climb at the very highest levels of of human I mean, so think about a gymnast or something.

[544] Is that him right there?

[545] Yeah, that's him.

[546] So he's free soloing.

[547] No, no, no, he has a harness on.

[548] Yeah, he's got a rope right there.

[549] Yeah, no, I mean, look at what he's holding.

[550] He's only with his one finger.

[551] No, well, I think his other one might be on too, but it's basically like a tiny, tiny, tiny edge.

[552] This is the crux of one of the pitches on the Donwall.

[553] That is so insane.

[554] That guy could probably crush your head by just grabbing it.

[555] Well, and certainly the, he has a certain ferocity.

[556] He has an intensity where he can try with like 115 percent.

[557] just like ah so i'm pretty sure if you grabbed your head and tried his hardest it would just pop like a little melon imagine the grip strength he's holding on to such tiny tiny little things yeah he's uh he's a very very strong wow man so a guy like that when when you see him do these paths these paths are paths you can only do with a rope yeah yeah does he free solo as well i don't think he ever has um it's not really his thing and the thing in some ways it's really hard to do both at a high level and um i i think or at least to some extent it's hard to do both at a high level because so for him for him to climb something that hard he needs that intensity he needs that 115 % effort but if you're trying to free solo well you definitely should never be giving anything even remotely close to a hundred and 15 % effort or else you'll die for sure you know because you're so close to that razor edge of failure when you're trying that hard but with free solo and you have to always keep it sort of within your comfort zone because you don't want to die doing it.

[558] So, I mean, I think that I've always sort of kept my personal, like on your personal barometer of effort, I sort of live between four and seven, let's say, or like, you know, three and a half and seven maybe, where it's like you're never too relaxed, but you're also never going to the absolute death.

[559] Or sort of like in the four to six is a sweet spot where you're like, oh, I'm climbing, I'm having a good time, but I'm not like trying too hard and I'm not too relaxed.

[560] But so somebody like Adamander or Tommy Caldwell, like I've climb with Tommy a lot over the years.

[561] He's a great climber.

[562] And I've really seen this because he like, I've seen him just randomly fall off many times because he was, he just like slipped.

[563] He's like, oh, I'm so relaxed.

[564] It's so easy.

[565] And then I'm like, oh, I slipped.

[566] And that's kind of like an effort of one where you're like, your body is so relaxed that if anything happens, then you fall.

[567] And with a, with a rope on, that's fine.

[568] In some ways, that's the more efficient way to climb because, you know, you're so relaxed most of the time that you're saving a lot of energy over all that every once in a while when you fall, it's like, who cares, the rope catches you.

[569] It's no problem but you have to trust those little things that you stick in the cracks to hold the ropes but that's like i mean that's yeah that's that's that's kind of what is he doing there he's uh he's counterpressuring his leg into this crack to rest he's basically like pushing his knee into the rock to uh in order to relax his arms from but he's his whole body is leaning backwards yeah so he's hanging upside down basically every muscle on his body is relaxed except for his calf and his calf is forcing his knee into the rock which holds him in place oh he's just hanging there about one knee that is so insane that photo is so insane.

[570] Yeah, that's a really efficient way to rest, to rest your arms.

[571] Well, because it's really hard to hold on.

[572] Yeah.

[573] Well, you know, no, I mean, for him, it's like, for him to be able to rest like that for one minute is an amazing way to rest your arms for a minute.

[574] But then it sort of saps your core and it makes his calf really tired, obviously.

[575] Now, does a guy like, does he lift weights or anything to prepare for these things?

[576] I don't know what he's doing.

[577] He's on his own program.

[578] But it's really climbing specific.

[579] He's mostly doing things with his fingers.

[580] Yeah.

[581] Yeah.

[582] He's pretty jacked.

[583] Is that even him?

[584] That's crazy.

[585] That's a weird, yeah, it's the same route.

[586] That's interesting.

[587] I've never seen that photo.

[588] But, I mean, I guess you just get jacked from doing that, too, though, just constantly pulling yourself up.

[589] Yeah, for sure.

[590] There's a climbing wall at this, like, local kids' place, and I told my daughter I give her $100 so she could make it all the way to the other side.

[591] It's pretty difficult, and so she's become obsessed with trying to get over there to get $100.

[592] That's definitely jacked.

[593] I mean, look at that.

[594] He's jacked.

[595] Your daughter's going to wind up super ripped.

[596] It's hard to do, man. I tried to do it, and I couldn't do it.

[597] I was like, wow, this is really hard.

[598] It's difficult to do.

[599] I bet if you try it a bit.

[600] I mean, just because you have such a background in movement and fitness and everything, I bet it wouldn't be that hard for you.

[601] You know, a little instruction.

[602] Yeah, I'm pretty heavy, though, for someone who's short.

[603] That would be an issue is hanging.

[604] I'm 200 pounds right now.

[605] Yeah, but so in theory, climbing should be more in your legs anyway.

[606] You should be driving with your legs.

[607] Right.

[608] Because no matter what, your legs are always bigger.

[609] and stronger muscles than your arms.

[610] So, like, that's always what drives you upward.

[611] Yeah.

[612] And then your arms should only be holding your weight in and keeping you balanced over your feet, basically.

[613] That's interesting.

[614] That's something that they figured out fairly recently with grappling over the last, like, 10, 15 years with, like, jujitsu and things along those lines, that your legs, it's really important to use mostly your legs when you're grappling.

[615] Totally.

[616] I can see that.

[617] I mean, that's what's driving you forward or pushing the whole.

[618] Controlling your opponent and manipulating your opponent and doing stuff with your legs.

[619] Do you do anything to cross -train?

[620] Like, not really, no. I mean, I do other mountain sports a little mountain biking or skiing or things like that.

[621] But you do it for fun.

[622] Yeah, for fun.

[623] And then the only real cross -train I do is just sort of like a push -up and core type routine, you know, like opposition training just to maintain healthy, you know, healthy body.

[624] Oh, because you're constantly pulling.

[625] Yeah, exactly.

[626] I'm always pulling for my sport.

[627] So then I try to do a little bit of pushing and core just to make sure that things stay balanced out.

[628] Now, is that something you talk to a physical therapist about, or?

[629] No, that's just, I mean, that's just basic physiology.

[630] I mean, if you only pull, you have to push sometimes or else you wind up all imbalanced and injured.

[631] Well, I saw that one of the things in the film was when you were recovering from your ankle sprain.

[632] And, you know, you had said that you really hadn't been injured in years, then all of a sudden you have this girlfriend, and she doesn't climb, and you get injured.

[633] Yeah, yeah, that actually is just freak, timing, bad luck.

[634] It's just unfortunate because I think really it just shows that I've been really fortunate for 20 years that I've had very few injuries climbing and then, you know, at some point you just have a few and that's, I mean, that's just life to some extent.

[635] But when you do have something like that and you feel sort of the vulnerability of your tissue and your, do you think about like, hey, what if this happened halfway up some fucking insane path?

[636] No, the bigger thing in the film, I have a back injury earlier where I get lowered off the end of the rope and fall.

[637] I only fell maybe 10 or 12 feet, you know, sort of like the height of this, this room, basically.

[638] And, but I landed sort of like folded over this rock backward.

[639] It was like totally horrible, like these jagged boulders.

[640] And so I didn't go that far, but I was like, oh, you know, I got worked.

[641] And it was really sobering because it made me realize that if I fell from, you know, 40 feet climbing, you know, you could, it could be, yeah, I mean, it'd be a disaster.

[642] Yeah.

[643] You know, basically, it made me realize just how fragile my body is because I'm like, oh, I only fell a little tiny.

[644] ways and it like really hurt you know it's like pretty bad I was like man if you feel much further you could you could yeah anything could happen yeah people step off stairs wrong and blow their ankle yeah it's very strange the body's so fragile it's really amazing you well it's funny but it's so fragile but then also so robust in some ways I mean it's amazing what what the human body can adapt to or withstand but then yeah and then some things just can't yeah that's why I was asking you about your age like as you get older are you seeing a difference in the way you recover are you seeing a difference in the way you know like what your body what you feel like your potential is i yeah it's hard to say i think um yeah i don't know i mean those are those are the tough questions i mean you know i'm sure you're sure you think about that stuff too well as a fighter a fighter at your age 33 you said yeah that's when you start tailing off like winding down 34 35 when a fighter hits like 36 like yikes huh is that is that like old for a fighter yeah that's pretty old it's very rare there's only a few guys who've been able to compete at a world -class level past that an m -ma randy couture stands out and boxing bernard hopkins stands out how old is uh floyd mayweather 40 he's 40 yeah is he still considered like fighting an elite level well you know when he fought connor mcgregor connor mcgregor was nowhere near his level because connor mcgregor wasn't really a boxer yeah he's not a boxer Yeah, and so Floyd just kind of worked him.

[645] But he hasn't really fought at a world -class level for a couple of years because, you know, he beat Canelo Alvarez several years ago, and he made Canello drop a ton of weight.

[646] When he beat Mani Pachio, Mani Pachio was quite a bit past his prime and had a shoulder injury.

[647] So you're probably dealing with like three years or so since he's fought like real world -class competition.

[648] Huh.

[649] When you say he made him drop bunch of weight, does that mean like to, how does that work?

[650] He was very clever, you know, he wanted him to fight at a lower weight class, you know, because Floyd really, Floyd started off his career, I want to say at 1 .30, then he fought at 135, yeah, and, you know, his real.

[651] Isn't he big?

[652] How big is he?

[653] Oh, he's very small.

[654] It's like 5, 6, 5, 7 maybe, 5, 7, yeah, and tiny little hands, like very small hands.

[655] But apparently they hit very hard.

[656] well he's not a knockout artist he's just a genius boxer probably one of the best defense probably if not the best definitely top two or three defensive boxers of all time he's only been really hit hard to the point where he's been wobbled like maybe like four four times his entire career it seems like that's that's the kind of boxer you want to be exactly you don't want to be like the rocky bumbo style boxer that just gets beaten to death and then you want to be boring yeah really you Well, that's like freaking watching NFL games with good defense, and you're like, oh, man, it's like not the team you want to watch, but it's probably the better team.

[657] Yeah.

[658] Well, especially with boxing because the consequences are so grave.

[659] If you hit a lot, there's a horrible video that I put up on YouTube, or on Twitter, rather, that I retweeted someone sent me. And it's boxers when they're young talking versus after injuries, and you're watching, you're like, whoa, it's stunning.

[660] That's like NFL stuff too I mean Yeah It's funny I mean People talk about that with climbing It's like oh it's such a dangerous sport But the thing about rock climbing is that It's basically a completely safe sport Right up until some kind of accident may happen And then you potentially die But so the thing is you can basically climb At a high level for 50 years And never have any issues Or you could maybe die doing it But it's kind of a fundamentally safe sport For the most part As opposed to what we're talking about Like fighting or you know Football or things like that where like or even mountain biking where you're for sure going to get injured like no matter what just by just by playing the game yeah you I think things like football and fighting they creep up on you like the injuries start a pile well but basically just even in practice you are getting injured constantly you know and so it's I mean that's kind of messed up it's like just the price of entry is is going to be you know freaking head injuries yeah I went to a football game the other day a high school football game and when I was there I had a really hard time watching watching it because everybody's cheering and I'm and I was talking to my friend I'm like you're looking at brain damage yeah no it's messed up these kids are getting brain damage and this is like a really nice private school where they pay a lot of money to get the kids into this program and then the kids are playing football I'm like these they're they're all getting brain damage he goes really I go 100 % I go did you see that collision I go that's brain damage that's definitely brain damage it might not be a lot they might be okay but how many of those do they do in a day how many do they do in a week how many a month how many a year like what a waste to human potential right there it really is i mean the problem is it's such a grand part of our history and our culture what doesn't really need to be i mean you know football hasn't existed that long yeah no i agree i mean i'm not dude i freaking i watch a rodeo from like very very close basically like from the commentators box like above the the pens um for the fourth of july rodeo in wyoming uh like two summers ago and that was something that was like this is messed up i mean and i'm i'm not like huge animal rights guy but i'm vegetarian obviously and i sort of care and i was like oh you know you're kind of abusing these animals for sport and that's like that doesn't you sit that well with me but what was even worse is i was like all these young men are getting worked just like for the entertainment is totally like roman gladiator type stuff and i was just like and it's weird because it's so cultural you know because and and you know i mean i can i can empathize because obviously i'm doing something that's also sort of blood sporty to some extent and and sort of for the same reason you know you're a teenage dude looking to do something interesting and engaging that's that'll hopefully get you laid you know like you just want to I mean if you're from small town Wyoming and you're like oh I'm good at riding bowls like that's for sure going to be your path and I'm like oh it's just too bad that that's your path it's a dark path I mean we watch this guy get freaking thrown off this bull and and he was fine you know he landed on the ground but then the bull freaking it was charging him and the guy like I've never seen human terror like he basically just turned and ran as fast as he could but he ran straight into this post like head first into this freaking steel post like the edge of the because he just didn't you know it was like the bulls coming at him he like turns and runs and he basically like knocks himself out against this post and then thankfully the clowns distracted the bull and then the pyramid like thankfully there was a freaking ambulance basically parked on the other side of the fence from what he ran into and so they basically like lift him over and put him straight on the stretcher and like take way you know but i was like dude and you know the crowds all like yeah and you're just like that guy's like messed up like that you know everything about it made me like feel kind of gross you know yeah it's not like i would never want to pay to watch somebody hurt themselves and just like i don't know well it's weird that that's culturally acceptable but like bull fighting is not yeah when they're totally because yeah bull riding it's like they're freaking tasing the bulls they're like aren't they tying off their balls and they're doing all kinds of things i mean well though people argue that the Bulls have great lives.

[661] You know, they feed them well and they get a lot of exercise and they're very happy bowls and you're like, dude, I'm pretty sure they'd rather be roaming the open plains like inseminating cows, you know?

[662] Yeah, that's a weird justification.

[663] We had a guy on Fear Factor once that was a professional rodeo guy and his shoulder was like a topographic map.

[664] It was just, he had so many scars in his shoulder and he told me his shoulder would just pop out, just like he could just pop it out left and right.

[665] Just being destroyed.

[666] like gourd by bulls falling and getting it ripped apart riding bulls yeah yeah i just i just don't get that it just wasn't working anymore i mean he had a bunch of surgeries and they tried to screw it back together and tighten things down but it was just destroyed i'm sure i'm sure a bull rider would look at free so long and be like what a crazy dude you know everybody looks at another sport and they're like that's crazy and honestly i look at fighting and i'm like that seems totally outrageous i'm like why would you want some other dude beating you to death and cage i'm like that's it's outrageous.

[667] It is outrageous, but if you can get good enough or you can avoid most of the damage, yeah, and then to land the damage, it's kind of the same.

[668] But even landing the damage to a certain extent, you're like, oh, you're hurting somebody else for the pleasure of the crowd.

[669] You're like, that's kind of messed up.

[670] Yeah.

[671] It's a very weird feeling.

[672] Knocking someone out is one of the weirdest feelings because part of you is happy that it's not you, but part of you is like looking down with that guy that's just got flatlined.

[673] And you're like, whoa, that could have been me. How much to fighters, like, hold back?

[674] You know, because I feel like you kind of have to, like, go to the death.

[675] But then if you actually, like, punch somebody so hard, they died or something.

[676] I mean, obviously, you'd feel horrible, right?

[677] Well, you don't hold back at all.

[678] Well, that's what I'm saying.

[679] But so it's like, you don't hold back at all.

[680] But then if you actually killed somebody, wouldn't you feel horrible?

[681] It's very rare that someone dies in mixed martial arts, believe it or not.

[682] Well, yeah, no, I mean, I know that, but it's possible.

[683] Yeah, it's like, you know, and it has happened.

[684] and it's sort of like...

[685] It has happened very, very rarely in mixed martial arts, never in the UFC.

[686] But in boxing, it happens more often.

[687] And one of the reasons why it happens more often in boxing, because you're only punching.

[688] In MMA, you're taking people down.

[689] Yeah, people are tapping out because they're pan in weird ways.

[690] Yeah, well, it's also, there's more options to defend yourself.

[691] You're not just getting battered against the ropes.

[692] They're also, nowadays, much better at stopping a fight when a fighter's clearly compromised when they're really fucked up.

[693] In the old days, they used to let guys just get battered.

[694] They used to, you know, in boxing matches.

[695] Yeah, that doesn't sit well with me. I'm just like, but that's why I'm not a fighter.

[696] Well, it's like, that's the thing about climbing is there's this real elemental appeal to just you and the mountain and its nature and it's beautiful and it's like very peaceful and calm.

[697] It's like so different than having thousands of people screaming at you as you punch some guy on the face over and over.

[698] It's like, dude, that's just, that's not my scene.

[699] Well, did you see the Connor McGregor Khab Nurmugam -Metoff fight where there's the big fight outside of the cage?

[700] Oh, is that the thing where the guy vaults out of the cage and like starts brawling or what I was like yeah, it's like WWE or whatever it was like when they start breaking tables over people Crazier than that because it was real.

[701] Yeah, exactly.

[702] I was like this is totally outrageous.

[703] But what's funny is it became chaos because a fight erupted outside of the parameters of the fight.

[704] It was just more fighting.

[705] Yeah.

[706] You'd seen fighting.

[707] Yeah, like this is what we paid for this isn't okay right everybody's like fighting in the cage is fine this is lovely buddy because out of the cage oh my god he's out in the wild that's out in the world fighting isn't that kind of messed up yeah it's definitely messed up you're like he's a professional fighter he's fighting like that's what he does it's weird that's the whole listen and this is coming from someone who's been involved in this my whole life it's weird it's i i absolutely see all the arguments against it and yet you still want to go train and punch people in the face Well, I don't punch anybody in the face anymore.

[708] I still choke people.

[709] But I think...

[710] That seems totally fun then, huh?

[711] Well, the thing about the jiu -jitsu aspect of it is you really can tap out and stop and you don't really get hurt.

[712] The only time you get hurt training jujitsu is accidental for the most part, especially when you train.

[713] You're actually better off training with a black belt than you are with a white belt.

[714] Totally, because, yeah, no, I get that.

[715] Because they have more control.

[716] Yeah, they'll be fine with you.

[717] They'll just tap you.

[718] Yeah, it was a white belt accidentally kicks you in the white belt.

[719] the face.

[720] And you're like, ah, I thought we were to spark.

[721] They're really strong, especially if you get a white belt as like a crossfitter, is fucking jacked, really strong guy.

[722] He just wants to, he's like, I thought we were just grappling and then his arm came out and I don't know what to do with it.

[723] So I threw it away.

[724] I don't know.

[725] Yeah, really an unskilled guy who's extremely strong, who's learning technique, and he's also like a spas is very dangerous to roll it.

[726] So, yeah, you don't want to teach me jutsu.

[727] That's what you're saying.

[728] Not me, but someone, if you did it with me, we'd be fine but if you did it with someone who's a real beginner who's you know but no i'm saying i'm the strong beginner yeah but strong rib and no idea what i'm doing just like ah yeah but the real problem would be if we were both beginners yeah that would be the real problem the like a strong spas is not really it's not going to work against a black belt that's uh yeah that's the learning curve for climbing too you don't want two beginners going out and trying to like climb a mountain together yeah i would worry about that like if you're climbing do you ever climb like is there a chain like one person in front of you like when you yeah yeah i mean so yeah when you climb with the rope it's basically two people one goes out first and then brings up the second because you're limited by the length of the rope so basically one person goes out to the end of the rope brings up the next person that person climbs through brings it up the second so are you dependent upon the holes that they put in when they put those bolts into the cracks and so bolts bolts and things are put in by the first ascensionists, so the very first person to have ever climbed the route, but then everybody thereafter is able to just clip their equipment into the bolts or, you know, use pre -established anchors, things like that.

[729] Oh, so all the roots are already established, and you can, like, read a book that shows all the different roots.

[730] Oh, so, like, Al -Captan has something like 112 different roots of it.

[731] Wow.

[732] And of those 112, only 15 or so of them can be free -climed, which is different than free -soling.

[733] Free climbing, meaning just using your hands and your feet.

[734] still using a rope, you're still clipping into protection as you go, but you're only using your hand and your feet to get you up, as opposed to, like, putting gear in and then pulling on the gear, which would be considered cheating.

[735] So of the 100 roots on El Cap, you know, something like 90 of them, you have to pull on the hardware.

[736] You have to, like, clip little ladders into it and step on, you know, you have to hammer petons in and then clip into them and stand on them and then hammer another peaton and step on that.

[737] Oh, because there's no foot holes.

[738] Yeah, there's just nothing to hold onto.

[739] It's too hard.

[740] Oh, wow.

[741] So then there, yeah, something like 10 or 15 free climbing routes where you can climb it.

[742] And so with my big goal of trying to free solo L -cap to climb it without a rope, I was limited to just those 10 or 15 routes that are possible to climb just with your hands and feet.

[743] And how did you establish the one that you wanted to proceed on?

[744] Yeah, so basically, I just wound up doing the easiest one, because basically it's really hard to free climb L -cap by any means.

[745] And so the easiest one wound up being the most secure, the best one for me. How many people have done it?

[746] Well, free solo or free climb?

[747] Free solo?

[748] Free solo?

[749] You're the only one?

[750] Yeah, the only one.

[751] Yeah, I mean, that's why there's the film and everything.

[752] It's a, and nobody's ever even thought about it.

[753] You know, nobody's considered it.

[754] It's not like something that people are trying to do.

[755] Now that you've done it, are there other people that are considering it?

[756] I really do.

[757] I mean, I think it's almost more the opposite.

[758] Now that I've done it, people are like, oh, I don't need to do that.

[759] I mean, there's nobody even playing this game right now, really.

[760] There aren't that many high -end free soloists right now.

[761] How many are there?

[762] Um, I don't know, two or one or something.

[763] Really?

[764] I mean, I don't know if there are any others really right now.

[765] There's this guy, Brad Gobright, and the American guy who's been free -selling at a pretty high level.

[766] But definitely, he's a really good friend of mine, so I'm not like slandering him.

[767] But definitely at a very different level than, like, he would never even dream of selling all gab.

[768] So he's sort of starting out?

[769] Well, it's not that he's starting out.

[770] I mean, he's a very good climber.

[771] He's been climbing a long time, and he's done all kinds of very difficult things.

[772] But in terms of free -soling, I think he just doesn't need to push it as that hard.

[773] So he's almost like he dabbles in free soloing?

[774] Yeah, well, I mean, I dabble in free soloing as well.

[775] I mean, mostly I'm climbing with my friends, doing other things.

[776] You know, I mean, I think most, almost all climbers only dabble in free solo.

[777] I mean, free soling is sort of like one discipline of climbing.

[778] Like when we were talking earlier about the Olympics having multiple disciplines, you know, there are many types of climbing, and most climbers do all of them to some extent, and free soloing always represents sort of this small specialty, like extra style.

[779] So you do free climbing.

[780] And then you also do the kind of climbing where you have to put in those posts and stand on them.

[781] Yeah, yeah, or aid climbing, artificial climbing.

[782] So I free climb, I aid climb sometimes.

[783] I don't like to because it's too much work.

[784] It's too much like construction.

[785] You know, you're like nailing things and standing on.

[786] It's like engineering.

[787] Yeah.

[788] But I do that because sometimes that's what it requires to get up big mountains.

[789] And when you do that and you nail things and stand on them, do you take them out as well?

[790] Yeah, the second person takes them out.

[791] So the one person uses them to get up.

[792] And then once the rope is secured above, then the second person joins them and removes them all.

[793] And then you have all your gear back and then you're able to do it again for the next section.

[794] How much weight is that stuff?

[795] Well, it depends, but it can be a lot.

[796] And certainly back in the day when people were doing the first ascents of El Cap, I mean, it's something like 40 pounds or 50 pounds of iron hanging off them.

[797] Nowadays, it's all a lot lighter and you can use better gear.

[798] But, yeah, I mean, it's a lot.

[799] But that's kind of the appeal of free climbing or even free soloing is that you have nothing on you.

[800] Now, how secure is that stuff that you're hanging hammering in there?

[801] It depends.

[802] It depends.

[803] I mean, there's certainly stories of people falling and ripping all the stuff back out but but sometimes that's okay because if you're if you're thousands of feet off the ground you can take that 100 foot fall and not touch anything and it's fine oh yeah but still no earlier the summer you're counting on those things well yeah I mean it's it's all it's all well founded I mean you just got to trust it here now earlier the summer I was talking about Tommy Caldo one of the best climbers in the country so the two of us did the speed record on L cap earlier this year and so that's the two of us are tied together we're using a rope we're using equipment but where anything goes you're cheating as much as you can is just trying to get from the bottom of all cap to the top as fast as possible this is on a different route than the one that I free sold in the film and so um we were trying to go sub two hours and we ultimately did it in 158 and it was pretty awesome and we were really psyched but along the way Tommy took a hundred foot fall at one point where he just I was talking about him with the whole one to ten effort he was climbing something that's really really easy and he was probably giving an effort of like two and he just slipped you know and I was like oh but anyway he freaking whipped He felt like 100 feet just straight down the wall.

[804] Didn't touch anything because El Cap is like a very clean vertical sheet of rock.

[805] How long does it take to fall 100 feet?

[806] I don't know, like several.

[807] Yeah, several seconds.

[808] 15 seconds?

[809] No, no, no, no, like four or five or something.

[810] But you accelerate very quickly.

[811] One, two, three, three, yeah, long enough to be like, oh my God, I'm going to die.

[812] No, no, totally.

[813] No, long enough.

[814] So the reason he fell so far is because we were doing this sort of complicated maneuvers.

[815] Normally I would have a belate device on.

[816] Basically, I would be attached to the rope earlier to, like, catch him.

[817] But I'd taken my blade device off, and I was just tied into the end.

[818] So basically he fell and all the slack whipped through until it hit me at the end of the rope.

[819] But so when he yelled, I basically had time to be like, oh, my God, he's falling, like, brace for impact.

[820] Like, knowing that in a second the rope is going to come tight against the end that I'm tied into and basically jerk me. Wow.

[821] But then thankfully, there's enough drag in the system that it didn't jerk me off the stance that I was on or else I would have gotten pulled like 50 feet across the wall, and it was all messed up.

[822] So when he's falling and you're realizing that you're going to get yanked by his fall, are you, like, digging into the rock?

[823] Yeah, no, basically I was like, oh, my God.

[824] You know, I was like, brace yourself.

[825] Like, I was in this position.

[826] I was actually, like, facing out away from the wall, like, facing out towards the meadow because I was in an open corner.

[827] Like, if you look at the corner of the room, imagine one leg on each side facing outward, like pushed into this position because it's like I was about to have to untie my knot and retie it and do some things.

[828] And so I was basically like all ready to do some things.

[829] And all of a sudden I hear that he's falling and I was like, oh my God.

[830] And then I was able to just sort of like stick in there.

[831] Jesus.

[832] But my point is just that taking big fall, I mean, if you trust your equipment and everything, it can be okay to take big falls like that.

[833] You obviously try to avoid them because, you know, had he hit a ledge or something, then potentially he could have died.

[834] But because it was clean there, it was okay.

[835] So if he was in a situation where there was a slight angle and he fell that far, that's where it's really dangerous.

[836] Yeah.

[837] I mean, worst case scenario would be if you fell 100 feet and 75 feet down, there was a ledge sticking out, half the width of this table, because then you would just clip it, you'd break both your legs, everything would explode, and then you'd still fall.

[838] Yeah.

[839] What do you do if you fall and you break something and you're halfway up?

[840] Well, dude, so, okay, same route, the nose of El Cap, which we were trying to do the speed record on.

[841] This friend of mine who I actually previously held the speed record with this older guy, Hans Floreen, who actually wrote the book, How to Speed Climb, that I learned how to speed climb, that I learned how to speed record.

[842] climb from many years ago so he freaking exactly what I'm describing sort of worst case scenario he took this 20 probably a 22 foot fall but he was unlucky enough which is totally fine he had a rope he had gear everything worked exactly the way it's supposed to he just fell away which which is normal but the bummer was that there was a little ledge probably twice the size of that box right there like that little wooden box just kind of this little thing sticking out from the wall about this far that basically he fell 20 feet hit that broke both of his ankles and then and then went off at another two feet and so the rope caught him and you know the fall was exactly as expect all his gear held everything's totally normal except that he happened to hit that thing right at the apex of you know at the full force of his fall you know i had that ledgement two feet below it wouldn't matter at all he would just hit it and jumped off in a space but because he'd already fallen 20 feet broke both his ankles and then it was kind of horrible i was actually up higher on the wall that day i'd come in from above to just repel in and work on something and i heard him yelling but i thought he was just hooting and hollering and like hey you know how's it going type deal and then i like it climbed out to the summit and then when i'd hiked halfway back down i got a voicemail from him saying that um you know being like oh hey it's hans i think i just broke my my tip fib um you know and basically like oh can you can you help or whatever he'd already called search and rescue and so a rescue is already mobilized but search and rescue in yosemite it's it's really elite they're really fast but it's still sort of by the books you know it still takes kind of a lot of time and so i was like oh man like maybe I should run back up and repel down and help my buddy repel down the wall again or something and try to get him out of here faster just because when search and rescue is mobilized it's like a long time and I was like if he's in a lot of pain that that sucks you know yeah um though as it I really hesitate I wound up calling search and rescue and talking it through them to see if there was anything I could do to help but ultimately I wound up just going down because um there wasn't really anything for me to do so he's essentially just suspending for a while waiting for them to get him yeah so he basically just sat on a ledge with two broken legs for you know know six hours or 12 hours or something and then eventually they managed to haul him up to the summit and then I think they helicoptered him off the next morning oh my god because it was already dark by then yeah no it was kind of horrible but he's sort of recovered by now it's been it's been five months or something so he's back at it oh he's climbing he's the manager of a climbing gym he's you know yeah well I mean it's two broken bones I mean yeah it could be worse yeah just seems like no super grim though it was like but that's an example of sort of worst case you know just badly luck well that's actually not worst case right no that yeah that's not worst case that's just bad luck yeah that's like when you're sitting there if you're sitting there hanging off a ledge like that with two broken ankles for six hours i mean that must be grim by the time they get to you the pain swelling and yeah so i think he and his partner actually repelled down 100 feet to a slightly bigger ledge so that he could lay on it and elevate his legs and then i think there were some other climbers around that gave him a jacket you know so he could sort of bundle up and like lay there and sort of manage But yeah, I mean, it seems extremely character -building.

[843] The life you choose.

[844] Yeah.

[845] No, it's really, I'm like, that actually kind of makes me feel really bad.

[846] Just because that kind of thing is really close to home.

[847] You know, it's like, because he's a friend and it's just so, like, that's bad.

[848] Yeah.

[849] I can only imagine.

[850] Yeah.

[851] When you think about your life and you think about the stuff that you do, do you, is there a point where you feel like you won't do it anymore or a point?

[852] point where you feel like you won't free solo anymore or do you look at like your friend who you were talking about who's older who's still free soloing and doing difficult paths?

[853] Do you think this is just your life forever?

[854] No, I don't know.

[855] I honestly, I'm not sure.

[856] I don't think it's my path forever necessarily just because there just aren't always bigger and harder things to do.

[857] You know, I mean, L .CAP represented sort of the end of this very long road for me. I mean, I sold many, many things that were all sort of leading to.

[858] towards El Cap, and then I finally did that.

[859] And at least right now, I can't really imagine anything more inspiring to me in terms of free -soling.

[860] I mean, there are plenty of other climbing challenges that I'm interested in, like I was just saying, doing the speed record is something that I did, you know, this summer, but.

[861] Is this like winning a big hand in Vegas where you're just like, okay, we got all the money, let's get the fuck out of here?

[862] No, because that's that, that is too much luck, you know what I mean?

[863] It's like, it's more like realizing a life dream and you're sort of like, okay, you know, I've seen.

[864] but I mean you know it's it's a similar idea where you're like okay I well no it's not even I mean it's yeah yeah it's a bad analogy yeah I was just thinking in terms of like no more big crazy risks yeah but that's the thing is that it's not even I was never seeing it as a big crazy risk you know I wasn't rolling the dice I was sort of training for this thing and then I did it and I'm just not sure if there's a bigger thing that's worth more effort you know so I don't I mean you know as you see in the film like I have a relationship with my girlfriend and she's great and we have this nice life together and there's so much else in climbing and you know i mean maybe i'll never never seek out big free soloing challenges again i mean we'll see now you're still relatively young in terms of life itself do you do you think maybe there could be something that you would enjoy as much as you enjoy climbing well i mean so no matter what i'll climb my whole life i mean i friggin i love climbing i mean even on the film tier i'm climbing in the But I don't know, I have a foundation that I've worked with for the last five or six years, supporting solar around the world.

[865] And so I could see putting more and more effort into that.

[866] I mean, that's something that's satisfying in a way that climbing sort of isn't because it actually has a real tangible impact on the world.

[867] You know, I mean, climbing is really fulfilling personally.

[868] But when it's all said and done, it's like it's just me going rock climbing and it doesn't really matter.

[869] But at least working with the foundation, it's like actually doing something real.

[870] What is your foundation?

[871] It's just the Honnold Foundation, but we've been supporting solar all of this.

[872] I mean, if you want the longer version, it's basically, you know, I was like looking for some way to do something positive in the world.

[873] So I was looking to support environmental projects.

[874] And then I was like, there's no real point in supporting environmental projects that don't also support, like, increased standard of living that, like, help people in need.

[875] And that sort of led me to solar projects, basically solar energy access.

[876] And so that's what we've been supporting the last five or six years.

[877] And so what do you do with this?

[878] Well, so domestically, well, so mostly it's just been my way of donating my money to other projects that support solar.

[879] So domestically in the U .S., I've been supporting this group grid alternatives, for example.

[880] And so, I mean, I've done a few installations with them in Sacramento in my hometown, where basically, low -income family just gets a free home solar system on their house.

[881] And so it saves them the energy bills, but then also in terms of, you know, carbon emissions, it's just good for the planet.

[882] you know, slowly greening the grid.

[883] But, and then the bigger, potentially the bigger impacts have been projects we've been supporting in Africa, which give access to like solar lanterns, solar lights, being able to charge cell phones.

[884] Basically like small -scale systems, there's just a panel, a battery, and a few LED lights and a phone charger.

[885] But those kinds of things can fundamentally change somebody's life because, you know, East Africa, people can spend up to a quarter of their income on kerosene just to light their home, which is totally outrageous.

[886] I mean, imagine spending that percentage of your income just to have light after dark.

[887] You know, in like in equatorial regions of the earth, it's dark for 12 hours a day.

[888] I mean, imagine if when the sun goes down, your productive hours are done.

[889] You're just like, no, I'm just going to sit in the dark for 12 hours.

[890] Like, it's crazy, you know?

[891] Yeah.

[892] I mean, there are a billion people on Earth living without access to power.

[893] And, I mean, it's hard not for, I mean, I kind of see that as a waste of human potential to some extent.

[894] Like, it's just an unfortunate thing to think that there's so many people living without access to power.

[895] I mean, it's crazy.

[896] It is crazy, and it's really crazy in California that there's not more solar when you think about how often it's sunny here.

[897] Yeah, no, I mean, it's totally, though, I mean, at least it's growing very quickly in California at least.

[898] But, I mean, really, solar should be powering the whole earth.

[899] I mean, enough sunlight hits the earth every, I don't know the terms now.

[900] It's every like 10 or 15 minutes basically to power the earth for like the year if you're able to harness all the energy.

[901] It's kind of like, it's just such a cleaner, simpler way of, of power.

[902] power in the earth, you know.

[903] Yeah, it really is.

[904] And I mean, one can only hope that that's going to, it's going to keep, it's going to continue to evolve.

[905] The thing, the thing that drives me absolutely crazy is that it's totally obvious that in a hundred years, the earth will be run through solar and things like that, because there's just so much energy spilling out of the earth and it's free.

[906] And so the technology is only improving, everybody's adopting it.

[907] Like, in 100 years, no question everything will be run from the sun.

[908] The thing that drives me insane is that there's so much resistance to it from utilities, from consumer ignorance, from whatever else, but people just don't totally get it and sort of opposed to it.

[909] And so, you know, half the world will be dragged, kicking and screaming into the future.

[910] And you're sort of like, if you just embrace it and get there in 15 years instead of 100 years, all the arguments about climate change, all the arguments about, you know, environmental degradation, all this kinds of things would be mitigated to a large extent.

[911] And you're sort of like, is there a downside to that you know like even if you don't believe in climate change even if you know you deny all the science behind it you think it's all BS it's like is there really a downside to just adopting the future sooner yeah it's like yeah it's like one of those things we're sort of like if it's gonna happen eventually let's just do it now and save all the freaking hassle getting there I think it's the momentum of the current system it's very difficult for people to just abandon established ways of doing things especially when we're so hooked on fossil fuels I know but like it's just such a bummer that the status quo is such a thing.

[912] You know, people are like, oh, well, that's the way we do it.

[913] Let's just keep doing that.

[914] And it's just weird because there's so many things in life that change so frequently.

[915] You know, like, I mean, the world is constantly changing.

[916] You're like, let's just embrace the changes that matter the most and just do them faster.

[917] Well, you're talking as a guy who lives in a van and climbs rocks.

[918] And these business people that have thousands and thousands of employees and millions, if not billions of money of dollars invested in these things.

[919] Yeah, well, yeah.

[920] That's the problem is the momentum of the current system.

[921] I know, it's just too bad.

[922] Yeah, but it's, it is, but it's inevitable.

[923] I agree with you.

[924] It's inevitable that we will embrace it and change.

[925] I think one of the big things is going to be.

[926] But that's almost more frustrating, though, is because it's inevitable, and yet it's going to be dragged out so long.

[927] You're sort of like, why can't people just embrace the inevitability of it and just move forward, you know?

[928] Well, I think they slowly are, but things like that take time.

[929] I think one, one big thing is going to be if they can ever figure out a way to solar power cars as you're driving them, so you never really have to concern yourself.

[930] I don't think that'll ever be a thing.

[931] Well, Fisker figured out how to do it with your stereo.

[932] They figured out how to do it with your radio system.

[933] That's a lot different than a car.

[934] It is.

[935] It's like a lot less energy.

[936] But it's just the roof panel, the roof panel.

[937] Isn't that, didn't we, they're a weird company, though.

[938] That's the company that many years ago, there was a big storm that hit the East Coast, and they had a bunch of cars parked at a dock, and they all exploded when the water hit them.

[939] And they realized, way, way, wait, wait, you can't get your things drenched in water.

[940] Like when the water hit a certain level, like they had a severe flaw.

[941] And so they burst into flames and exploded.

[942] And there's this whole like dock filled with these Fisker carmas that blew up.

[943] And they called them carmas, which is even more hilarious.

[944] You watch it exploding.

[945] That's pretty bad.

[946] That's like that's all bad all the way around.

[947] Yeah.

[948] I think they've since fixed that.

[949] But yeah, it was a big flaw.

[950] I was just actually reading, I was reading this business management book but um we're talking about the ford pinto with uh having freaking gas tanks too close to the back bumper it's basically your gas tank protected by an inch of plastic and you know yeah speaking of exploding cars but that actually i think killed lots of people because you know they were actually put into production and then there's tons of accidents and the cars explode and you're just like man that's speaking of bad decisions in auto manufacturing yeah the pinto was a disaster it wasn't good but yeah I think what they're capable of doing right now I think you're right I don't think you can power a car with solar panels completely I mean you certainly can from your house that was their initial claim when they announced it that it would power the whole car and everyone was like that's bullshit no that's definitely bullshit I mean just yeah yeah it can't happen two years ago two years ago they said they could power the whole car with the roof August of 2016 huh I'm trying to find the updates but that seems that seems totally outrageous because also I mean the future of cars is more like a smaller car with no like a glass roof like Tesla style where it's sort of a initial ad right here solar roof will create enough energy to power the car no other vehicle sold in the US has ever offered this capability well I mean so that might be true if it just sat parked in the sun for 12 hours and then you drove home right I mean but that's it in your driveway yeah you worked at night yeah exactly it charges all day and your commute's really short but the numbers totally I don't work.

[951] Yeah.

[952] Well, you would know better than anybody if you're involved in solar.

[953] Yeah.

[954] I don't know.

[955] But, I mean, the solar panels of today, I mean, I have a buddy of mine who does a lot of backpacking, and he carries around this, it's like a foldable solar charger for his phone.

[956] And he unfolds it up and lays it out and then puts a charger there, and then he uses that charger to charge his phone.

[957] But he'll go 20 plus days with just this thing.

[958] Yeah, I mean, so I mentioned our expedition.

[959] to Antarctica last winter.

[960] So that's 24 hours of sunlight because you're in Antarctica in their summer.

[961] And our entire expedition was run from solar.

[962] And so we'd actually taken a generator, and the other guys on the trip forgot oil for the generator, basically.

[963] And so it wasn't going to work.

[964] And so we're like, oh, I guess we'll have to try to use the solar, which had sort of been our backup system.

[965] And actually we ran the whole trip on solar and everything worked.

[966] And so they were filming, so there were a bunch of cameras, bunch of batteries, laptops, backing up drives.

[967] And then they were flying a drone quite a bit for aerial footage.

[968] It was all kind of beautiful.

[969] So, I mean, they basically ran this whole operation off solar.

[970] One of the camera guys that's got Pablo, who's a good friend of mine, basically just had to wake up, you know, every two hours to move the panels around the tent as the sun tracks around the sky, you know, so that it's always in full sun.

[971] Right.

[972] But, and you had to sleep with the batteries and things to make sure things stay warm enough.

[973] But otherwise, I mean, but that's, I mean, because it's really cold.

[974] Yeah.

[975] It's funny because you put your laptops and stuff into coolers, like into ice chests to keep them insulated enough to stay warm as opposed to cold, you know, because the outside temperature is so cold.

[976] but it was cool though because you know that way we didn't have to run this like loud stinky annoying generator like you just have your panels working full time yeah that's one of the weirder things about like teslas when you drive it in they're like there's no noise yeah no it's awesome yeah yeah so much more peaceful yeah I mean but that's the future is like if you imagine a city that's all silent electric cars with no emissions I mean imagine how much more pleasant the pedestrian experiences when it's not like diesel exhaust right next to you on the city streets yeah and you don't hear the car that runs you over well you know no but you still do though because uh something like 30 % of the noise is the tires yeah it's like you still hear cars yeah but but it's just so much more mellow you don't hear like an engine like ripping right by you yeah i think it's inevitable that we figure out a way that you can just power everything from solar and including cars as you're driving them i mean it only makes sense as the technology improves yeah we'll see we'll see i mean uh there's development and uh solar film sort of in windows like so imagine an office building where the windows are all producing power.

[977] So, I mean, if you think about that with a car, if it's just like a glass dome over you, but it's all sort of producing power.

[978] Yeah.

[979] I mean, it's pretty amazing.

[980] I have a watch that runs on solar power.

[981] Yeah, but that's not a lot of power.

[982] Yeah, but still, I mean, you don't really need any batteries for it.

[983] It's a Cassio.

[984] Yeah.

[985] Yeah.

[986] I did when I was a kid.

[987] I went like that.

[988] Did you?

[989] Yeah.

[990] Yeah, that's pretty straightforward, though.

[991] That's a small amount of power that's drawing.

[992] When you got involved in this, how much preparation did you do?

[993] I mean, what was the motivation?

[994] For the foundation?

[995] Yeah.

[996] I mean, honestly, like I said, I was just looking to do something positive for the world.

[997] And so...

[998] Start exploring options.

[999] You want, and so I was going to start donating a significant percentage of my income to environmental nonprofits.

[1000] And then I decided that I should do it in sort of a public -facing way in the form of the foundation just because I felt like, you know, I'm never going to have nearly as much money as real philanthropic organization, you know, like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

[1001] and like I'll never have it I'll never have real dollars like that but I do sort of have this platform like some sort of public you know persona whatever and so I was like well at least if I donate things I can sort of leverage that in the right way to contribute I don't know basically to try maximize the good that I'm doing and so yeah so then I just started researching organizations that I felt like we're doing great work and that led me to solar basically does most of your income come from sponsors and from public appearances like how do you it was mostly sponsors and then it sort of has shifted into sponsors and sort of one -off things.

[1002] So, like, I published a book a few years ago, and so there's an advance from that.

[1003] And, like, the film has made a little money, the, you know, random little things.

[1004] And then now it's also sort of split with, like, corporate speaking -type commercial opportunities as well.

[1005] So sponsorship is still probably the biggest thing for me, so, like, the North Face being my biggest sponsor, and most important sponsor for me. But then now it's sort of split between a bunch of different sources.

[1006] So the public speaking things, of these corporate appearances, you just go and get, just talk to them about free solo climbing and yeah, talk to them about climbing, talk about preparation or, I mean, depends on what, what somebody needs, really, depends about the organization is I've spoken to a bunch of, uh, uh, venture capital type firms about risk taking or risk management or how that's interesting, you know.

[1007] So they just look at you as like sort of inspiration to, sort of mix things up for the company?

[1008] Yeah, I mean, I'd like to think that it's a slightly more interesting talk than the average business speaker you know i mean it's certainly more beautiful images you know like if i if i give a nice slideshow and chat for a bit it's um you know i mean it's beautiful it's different and um but i think that it still gets back to some of the same elemental issues you know talking about the yeah i mean how do you manage risk in your life and and what's worth it and how do you choose it's it's a smart move too for a company to just kind of like vary the kind of input that gets to the the the employees like give them something that's kind of spectacular and interesting and yeah Now, when you look at the future, do you have a map of what you would like to be doing?

[1009] Are you just sort of enjoying your experience here?

[1010] Do you have grand plans?

[1011] I don't really have grand plans.

[1012] I mean, I've never really had a grand plan.

[1013] It's always been that I love climbing.

[1014] I want to do it well.

[1015] I want to push myself.

[1016] And I think that's kind of my grand plan.

[1017] I mean, I'm still trying to be a better climber.

[1018] I'm still trying to grow the foundation, do something more significant through it.

[1019] I'm actually hired a full -time executive director this year, this woman who's running it for me, which is kind of awesome.

[1020] So we're actually sort of ramping it all up a little bit.

[1021] That was slightly in response to the film because I sort of figured that, you know, this is like a moment that I should try to take advantage of and use it to do something more positive.

[1022] And so that's all sort of exciting for me. And it's definitely not a grand plan, but it's, you know, it's just sort of all incremental progress.

[1023] So when you're doing all these climbs, you have a lot of.

[1024] of time when you're it takes time to do these things yeah so is this when you start thinking about these ideas about thinking about like how much you enjoy being out here in nature and what yeah caring about the environment i mean for sure yeah for sure i mean i spend most of my time in the most beautiful places on earth i mean i'm spending most of my time in national parks and and public lands in general and so i'm in all these beautiful places and it's like yeah i mean i care about them i want to you know if i have a family someday i want to be able to take my kids to these same places and have them appreciate the land in the same way.

[1025] I mean, yeah, so like, Yosemite, the last five years, freaking, the entire forest has basically died from pine beetles.

[1026] Well, all the pine trees have basically died because of pine beetles.

[1027] And so, like, just in the last five years, let's say, the Yosemite Valley floor has sort of transformed from, like, a dense pine forest to sort of this open oak forest.

[1028] It's, like, totally different character.

[1029] Wow.

[1030] Because all the pine trees have died, and then they've been cutting them all down to reduce fuel load.

[1031] So they're basically logging trucks with pine trees leaving the park nonstop, which, you know, which I'm, which I totally support.

[1032] I'm not like anti -logging the dead trees because you may as well use them if they're already dead.

[1033] And I definitely don't want to see Yosemite all burst in a flame.

[1034] So it makes sense.

[1035] But at the same time, I mean, you know, that's a real, that's a very direct result of climate change.

[1036] I mean, it's 10 years of drought in California combined with the shorter winters.

[1037] It's like you just have these beetles decimating the entire forest.

[1038] And I don't know.

[1039] I mean, that sucks, you know?

[1040] Like, I don't want to see the whole forest die.

[1041] Is that an invasive beetle or is it an native beetle?

[1042] Yeah.

[1043] Well, I think it's invasive in that, I don't know specifically with Yosemite, I could be wrong about this, but with a lot of the pine beetle problems in Colorado, it has more to do with the shorter winter and warmer temperatures, because normally the larva would die through the winter, like they would freeze.

[1044] But, you know, basically they're not freezing at the same extent, and so the population explodes, and then you wind up with all the trees dying.

[1045] Yeah, we were there, and we were in Big Bear a few years back when they were having a real issue with it, and they were having real significant fire.

[1046] scares and it was it was nerve -wracking no i mean you somebody was like on fire for most of the summer it was this crazy for the whole southern part of the park was like burning for months and that's you know i mean fire is a natural part of the ecosystem and you know to some extent you're like that's normal but it's like it's not normal right now because the fuel load is so high it's like so dry it's just it's too much you know and i i just would love for my kids someday to be able to appreciate the park the way i have for so long and i just don't want to see it all burn yeah when i was when we were in Big Bear, that's my feeling.

[1047] It was sad that you're seeing something that was probably this rich, green, lush forest that's now really weird gray and dry.

[1048] But it was also like you're around kindling.

[1049] Like you're basically in a big stack of dry wood before it gets lit on fire, and you're surrounded by it.

[1050] And if it hits up there, it's, I mean, we've been evacuated where I live several times, twice, actually, and come close a couple of other.

[1051] other times and it's uh it's terrifying because southern california when it goes it goes yeah and there's just no stopping it no i mean that's yeah no that's mess i mean that's so like yeah this is why i'm like this is why we transition to solar sooner you know because it's like if it helps at all with these kinds of issues then it's like worth worth the effort you know yeah it's like if it's going to happen anyway it's like you may as well you're doing in antarctica you're filming something there as well do you do a lot of that now um well for a trip like that for an expedition I mean, that was the North Face Expedition, and so that's where they get a lot of their brand content.

[1052] And so it makes sense to film a trip like that.

[1053] And we were somewhere that nobody ever goes.

[1054] We were doing first to sense of peaks that never been climbed.

[1055] So it kind of makes sense to document that to some extent.

[1056] But in general, I think I try to balance my just pure climbing with filming.

[1057] Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you.

[1058] Like, you don't want to get to the point where you're filming everything.

[1059] You have a GoPro on your head everywhere you go.

[1060] No, that stuff drives me crazy.

[1061] I'm not into that.

[1062] But when you're in the most.

[1063] beautiful place you know sometimes it makes sense well there's something especially for someone like north face i mean their whole company is about really yeah exploration and people up yeah yeah when when you're in that sort of situation where you're filming these things like is it difficult to be to act normal to be to to be yourself well no i mean if you if you saw free solo you know that i only have one mode and that's just that's just me um which i mean when when i see the home a lot of it i'm like oh maybe i need to censor myself a little more like maybe uh you know like oh maybe it should be a little more thoughtful about what i say but but um no i mean i'm pretty much always i just i just do me and if people are filming or not they just get i mean i'm more mindful of profanity and a few things like that if i know that i'm being filmed or i know i'm being watched then i try to be you know slightly more respectful especially if i see kids in an audience i definitely try not to curse right but um but overall i'm like no i just i just always state my mind you know well that's what i was talking about earlier when i was asking Like the difference between you when you're, I mean, your love of this is your love of nature and of being in these beautiful national forests and public lands and experiencing these amazing environments.

[1064] But then sometimes that gets sort of perverted when you're filming everything and you've got people just, everything becomes this sort of presentation and everything becomes professional.

[1065] I mean, I think that's the risk with filming.

[1066] I think with Free Solo, I think they did an amazing job of maintaining the character, you know, the nuance, like not perverting it in any way.

[1067] No, I think so, too.

[1068] I think it was amazing.

[1069] Yeah, I mean, I think they did a really good job of that.

[1070] Like, and it's still sort of understated, you know, even though it's like this spectacular feat, it's still sort of subdued in its own way.

[1071] It's just sort of lays it out beautifully, lets you just sort of judge for yourself and just, you know.

[1072] It's impossible to be anything but spectacular.

[1073] So you don't really have to dress it up.

[1074] Yeah, yeah, totally.

[1075] Well, that's the beauty of filming anything in Yosemite.

[1076] It's just, I mean, it's honestly just one of the most beautiful places on Earth.

[1077] It would be like putting a pretty dress on a Ferrari.

[1078] Like, leave it alone.

[1079] It's done.

[1080] Yeah, totally.

[1081] You've already got it.

[1082] Have you ever thought about doing some, like, live journal from the field or some sort of a podcast or something along those lines?

[1083] No, I mean, should I?

[1084] Yeah.

[1085] No, that sounds like too much work.

[1086] Well, a podcast would be easy.

[1087] I don't know.

[1088] but you have to be able to interview people properly.

[1089] No, you don't, no. You don't think?

[1090] My friend Bill Burr has a podcast where he just talks.

[1091] He does a Monday.

[1092] It's fucking great.

[1093] But he's a comedian.

[1094] Yeah, yeah, I'll get it with us.

[1095] Monday morning podcast.

[1096] But you just sitting down, I mean, you could go off notes.

[1097] You could go off of, and just, I think people would love that.

[1098] If you just...

[1099] I actually never thought about it.

[1100] I mean, in some ways, I do have strong opinions about a lot of things.

[1101] Like, if I just ranted about environmental issues and solar and things that I care about, that actually would be kind of fun.

[1102] I think you'd have a significant impact, too, especially you have such a large platform now.

[1103] I don't know.

[1104] I don't know.

[1105] I'll consider it.

[1106] That's the first time my news ever mentioned.

[1107] I'm sort of like, I can, you know, I'll think about that.

[1108] I'm notorious for trying to talk people into podcasts, but I really think in your case, it'd be a great idea.

[1109] I mean, you really have...

[1110] You're like, I tell everyone to do it, but you should really do it.

[1111] Well, people get mad at me. You keep telling people to do it.

[1112] But I think you, if you had a portable unit, like one of these...

[1113] Well, I mean, a freaking phone.

[1114] I mean, you can just record it.

[1115] Your phone, really.

[1116] Oh, yeah.

[1117] Recording on your phone is very easy.

[1118] You could, I mean, we've done a bunch of them.

[1119] We're just the voice notes from the phone, just talking into the voice notes from the phone, and you can make a podcast off that, and it's really easy to upload.

[1120] But just sitting.

[1121] Maybe that's my future.

[1122] Sitting in your van, you know, afterwards and just talking about things you're working on with your foundation, talking about spectacular moments during climbs where you're seeing things and, you know, talking about what it's been like doing this tour for free, you know.

[1123] No, I'm like, that's, I'll think about that.

[1124] I mean, that's interesting.

[1125] Yeah.

[1126] It's an interesting way to put it out there.

[1127] I mean, I think it's a great idea, man. Huh.

[1128] Huh.

[1129] I'll help you.

[1130] All right.

[1131] We'll help you get it out.

[1132] Yeah, you'll send me a little MP3 recorder.

[1133] We could definitely do that.

[1134] But we could also help you, like, I can promote it for you, put it on Twitter, let people know what's there.

[1135] Yeah, we'll see if I ever actually do anything like that.

[1136] But no, it's an interesting idea.

[1137] I mean, it's an interesting way to, like, share ideas better.

[1138] Well, it's, the reason I'm saying this is because you have this very specific, very unusual life.

[1139] And you also have all these ideas about the environment and have all these ideas about using it for positive reasons and, and altruistic.

[1140] Yeah.

[1141] Hoping to freaking make the world a better place.

[1142] Yeah, and having, making an impact with your foundation.

[1143] I really think you could, look.

[1144] the best thing with your foundation would be to make it exposed to more people and it would most certainly do that yeah yeah no it's uh i'll talk to my executive director about that too i mean that would be an interesting way to to yeah at least share the ideas that i care about yeah exactly it's so cheap to do it's just sitting and recording i'm like yeah and it'd be kind of cool you know like like you at the base of a mountain just talking about this and climbing and your personal thoughts in that moment i feel like it could be douchey you know but it It'd have to be well done.

[1145] You'd have to be a douchebag for it to be douchy.

[1146] Well, that's the danger.

[1147] That's the danger.

[1148] You just never, I mean, nobody thinks that they're the douche, you know?

[1149] Oh, well, do you think you'd become a douche?

[1150] Well, you just never know.

[1151] You never know.

[1152] When you're like, I'm just going to record monologues of me rambling about ideas, that's when you start to trend towards duchiness, perhaps.

[1153] Well, the good thing is you could always review it or have your girlfriend review it.

[1154] Yeah, that's true.

[1155] So you don't have to do it live.

[1156] Just, you know, and then she could say, okay, that part where you ran and rave and about diesel you might want to yank that no i mean well yeah or maybe not yeah no i feel stronger but i'll rant rave by diesel forever yeah that's just not gross yeah man imagine when electric trucks you know like long haul trucking i'm like oh can't wait well tesla's already on they're on the ball with that yeah well hopefully i kind of don't care who comes to market first that stuff i just want somebody to start selling a lot of them you know it's like i just want the change to happen quickly it doesn't matter who does it or how it's like it just needs to happen you've got a very voice right now you know I really think that you could make a big impact with a lot of people and the thing about these impacts it's sort of like the butterfly effect right it's like you never know what it changes you have no idea how many people are going to hear you just from this podcast and the things you're saying about solar and about and people thinking about like yeah maybe maybe I can do something and then boom it just makes these little incremental steps and then they carry on momentum and you never know Hmm.

[1157] Well, that's the very, that's the positive way of looking at it, you know.

[1158] Yeah, I just think it would be cool, too.

[1159] Like, notes from wherever you are.

[1160] Just, I mean, you doesn't, you don't have to have, the beautiful thing is, too, it doesn't have to have any kind of structure.

[1161] You don't have to have any time.

[1162] I mean, you can do one for 15 minutes if you want, and people will listen to it.

[1163] You could do it for an hour.

[1164] No, that might be, yeah, little micro hits, like little rambles for sure.

[1165] Yeah.

[1166] Do it as long as you want.

[1167] And look, the, like I said, the beautiful thing about things like this is that there's no, there's no real structure to it where you have to do something at a certain time.

[1168] You just decide.

[1169] In a lot of ways, that's the nature of climbing too.

[1170] Where you never have to do anything.

[1171] You just find what inspires you.

[1172] You work towards it.

[1173] You do it when you're excited about it.

[1174] I'm totally into that kind of thing because it's actually that's, I've always contrasted climbing from other mainstream sports like that because with climbing, it's like the objective is always that you're always inspired by it.

[1175] You do it whenever you're ready.

[1176] Yeah.

[1177] As opposed to having to perform on the right day at the right time.

[1178] You know, it's like I love that.

[1179] lifestyle where you're like, you know, today is my day or today is not my day.

[1180] Just like make it count.

[1181] If like leading up to you free soloing L. Cap, if there was a sort of a documented audio journal.

[1182] Well, I mean, there's a freaking film.

[1183] I mean, just go watch the film.

[1184] Yeah, but people are getting, this is, you're just wetting their appetite.

[1185] I mean, it's a beautiful film.

[1186] It's fantastic.

[1187] But there's going to people like to absorb more stuff.

[1188] Interesting.

[1189] And it's entirely up to you what you want to share or don't want to share.

[1190] And especially if you do.

[1191] do it this way.

[1192] You don't have an executive producer.

[1193] You don't have directors.

[1194] Yeah, totally.

[1195] With that, I definitely couldn't handle.

[1196] That's too much.

[1197] Just you.

[1198] Just you, just talking about stuff.

[1199] And your specific vision, the things that you like to talk about, and your specific message, you know, that's one of the things that people really, really enjoy about something like a podcast is that they know there's no one telling you what to say or what to do.

[1200] That, you know, here's Alex.

[1201] Alex is sitting in his van, you know, drinking a cup a tea just with an iPhone talking it's hard to imagine people would find that interesting they would I'm telling you dude oh I'm really surprised I bet though tell them tons of people tell them Jamie people would be listening to it people I know would listen to you for sure oh no I appreciate that but I'm slightly worried I'm gonna be I'm gonna miss my plane okay yeah we gotta get you out of here yeah I'm like thank you very much thanks for being here I really appreciate it the movie's excellent yeah it's fun fun to chat again because I remember last I was on the show.

[1202] It was a full experience for me. It was one of the first times I've done anything like that and it was like it was pretty mega.

[1203] I was like, whoa, I have no idea what I'm doing.

[1204] This is so much.

[1205] And like now I feel so much more comfortable and fun to chat.

[1206] It was great.

[1207] It was awesome.

[1208] It was great.

[1209] It was really great to see you.

[1210] Basically what I'm saying.

[1211] It feels like coming of age to come back and chat again.

[1212] Yeah, it's really nice.

[1213] Beautiful.

[1214] Right, cool.

[1215] I appreciate it.

[1216] Thanks, Alex.

[1217] Appreciate you.

[1218] Thank you.

[1219] Yeah, it's fun.

[1220] I remember last time.