Seth Rogen Opens Up About His Self-Doubt & Struggles That Nobody Sees!

[0] Hey there, welcome.

[1] Hey!

[2] Teth Rogan, writer, producer, and actor you know for Pineapple Express, knocked up, and Superbad.

[3] The Gloverhead!

[4] Hollywood, it's not a fair industry.

[5] It is not fair who makes it.

[6] Any given phone call is one that is making your life or one that is yet another door slamming in your face.

[7] We had finished Superbad, and then we wrote Pineapple Express.

[8] No one wanted to make it.

[9] But if you don't quit, you might make it.

[10] people would obviously look at you and assume that you have zero self -doubt because you've been so successful in what you've done but what's your journey been with self -doubt i'm at the point it's funny my career we're like not a lot of people are in a position to like yell at me but i will have a cultural institution tell everyone that i suck that will add self -doubt green hornet you received critical reviews for that like what's that phase like any opening weekend honestly and any time i have a thing coming out it sucks I think if most critics knew how much it hurt the people that they are writing about, they would second guess the way they write these things.

[11] Like, it's devastating.

[12] And something that people carry with them literally their entire lives.

[13] I read that you'd said, you would find life really hard without marijuana.

[14] I smoke weed all day.

[15] I've been very productive in that time.

[16] Clearly that's what I've been missing.

[17] Seth, you've had an incredible twisting, turning career.

[18] And I have to say, when I was reading about your earliest years, an unexpected one in many respects.

[19] To me, too.

[20] What do I need to know about you, where you came from, how you were raised to understand the man that you are?

[21] I mean, that depends on your appetite, I guess.

[22] I don't think anyone needs to know anything.

[23] But if you're curious, I don't know.

[24] I mean, there's a lot.

[25] I think a general, when I look at my life, I guess, I started young.

[26] I think that's something that I kind of view as one of like the defining traits and characteristics of my life.

[27] And I think I've always worked very hard.

[28] And I've always had very supportive parents.

[29] And I think those things all are things that when, if you're looking at like if you're if you're curious about how I got to where I am from like a career standpoint I think and just like why I am as a person a lot of ways I think those those things were instrumental yeah your parents yeah I was reading about them yeah they're very strange people yeah how so I mean everyone's parents are strange to them I would imagine I would yeah they're just they're kind of uh you know my dad's kind of eccentric my mother's uh also kind of eccentric um you know they, uh, but again, they were very, they're both incredibly supportive.

[30] Uh, I think because they're I think a lot of, you know, my writing partner, Evan, his parents were much less eccentric by kind of more traditional metrics and were much less supportive of, uh, of his career in a lot of ways.

[31] And so, uh, I probably benefited from their, you know, uh, eccentricities more than anything.

[32] Yeah.

[33] Excentric's a, a broad word.

[34] What is it?

[35] Because I could, I could describe my parents.

[36] specifically one of them is being eccentric.

[37] When you say eccentric, what exactly do you mean?

[38] I mean, my dad, well, my whole family, you know, I'm, you know, like a lot.

[39] My grandmother was like an immigrant who fled World War I. A lot of Jewish families are defined by the fact that people have been trying to kill Jewish people for a very long time.

[40] And my family is no different.

[41] A lot of the reasons Jews live where they live and are where they are and not, you know, in, you know, Eastern Europe somewhere is because, you know, people are trying to kill them.

[42] And that also shapes, I think, Jewish sensibility to a large degree.

[43] I know it did mine because it's kind of informed by neuroses and trauma to a large degree.

[44] And so, yeah, my grandmother is an immigrant.

[45] and she met my grandfather who his parents were immigrants to Winnipeg, which is a very cold, unforgiving part of Canada.

[46] They moved to Vancouver ultimately and had my mother, and my mother wanted to go to Israel to travel.

[47] My dad's from Newark, New Jersey, which is like, especially where he's from, like, one of the worst parts of America from like a kind of crime standpoint, especially at that time in the 70s and 80s.

[48] and he my dad's like a so you know a socialist and moved to a kibbutz in Israel where him and my parents him and my mother met and then moved to Canada so my dad has always been like incredibly left wing um especially both my parents but my dad really like he would have he would have stayed like essentially living on like a commune his whole life uh if you know he never met my mother basically yeah um and he has like incredible kind of like I guess it's OCD I don't know if it's a disorder I would say he has obsessive -compulsive tendencies and yeah and he has Tourette syndrome so he's twitchy and and I have it as well to some degree but those are connected kind of compulsive you know compulsion and Tourette's so yeah I mean yeah no shortage of strangeness to draw from in my family what was his relationship like with money I'd say not that's relevant.

[49] I mean, yeah, I was not, money was, I think we did not, I did not grow up with a lot of money, you know?

[50] My parents, my mother, went to school to be a social worker when I was very young and then became a social worker, but when I was like a kid, she was a cashier at a, you know, a department store.

[51] And my dad was, worked at like a vocational college as an ombudsman, which kind of, you know, is like a swing position to some degrees help facilitates life on the on the campus you know a lot of time was spent working in the game room from my memory uh so yeah we grew up you know in a small apartment and then um so yeah i think some people who don't grow up with a lot of money i think are taught to really like revere money and kind of put a lot of emphasis on it and i think other people who don't grow up with a lot of money uh kind of are taught that's not that important and as long as you have enough to do certain things then then then that's enough and it's not something that you should like fetishize or um you know make the be all end all by any means and i was definitely more raised like that yeah is there sometimes a bit of a paradox when your parents um don't value money and maybe they sometimes struggle with it that you grow up trying to avoid that struggle definitely i for sure had some things when i was young where i was afraid of being broke and i'm sure that for sure informed elements of my ambition you You know, I'm very lucky in that it also coincided with a very strong, like, creative drive, you know, but I definitely, yeah, remember being very concerned that we didn't have enough money.

[52] And my parents not being that concerned that we didn't have enough money, which probably made me more concerned that we didn't have enough money because I was like, why aren't they worried we don't have enough money?

[53] So, yeah, that was, that was something that was kind of, but then that was when I was like very young.

[54] And then as I got older, I saw that, you know, when I got into high school and stuff, I saw that I would be fine, you know what I mean, on the grand scale of things.

[55] In that apartment when you were quite and quote, quite very young, if I'd asked you, if I said, Seth, what are you going to be when you're older?

[56] What would you have responded to me?

[57] Um, I mean, I probably would have said I want to write movies or something like that.

[58] I probably would have wanted to be a ninja up until a certain age.

[59] a Ninja Turtle, specifically, probably.

[60] And then, yeah, I remember when I was probably like six or seven years old is when I started to really want to, like, the idea of making movies became very, like, fascinating to me. And I was one of those kids with a camera who was like running around, making movies.

[61] I'm obsessed with movies, quoting movies.

[62] I want to watch.

[63] All I want to do is watch movies.

[64] I like, I love, I like fell in love with movies at a very young age.

[65] Was there an influence in your household that inspired that love for movies?

[66] My parents love movies.

[67] They're like huge movie fans.

[68] They would go to movies.

[69] Again, it was one of those things like we did not have a lot of money.

[70] We would go to movies all the time.

[71] And in Vancouver, Tuesdays was like the cheap movie night for whatever reason.

[72] It's a slow night.

[73] So maybe they incentivized customers.

[74] And almost every Tuesday, we as a family would go to whatever new movie had come out that week.

[75] So we saw, I saw everything in theaters, like constantly.

[76] And I loved it.

[77] And my parents, you know, had a VCR and would take.

[78] movies off of television and we had this you know i think a lot of you know people my age are kind of defined also by like those vhs tapes that you grew up with because it was like a finite amount of movies and then i went to high school me and evan across the street from two uh video rental stores a blockbuster and a rogers which was like the canadian competitor but we would go there every day after school and just like walk the hour aisles and for hours and rent movies we go there on the weekends and rent talk walk the aisles and rent movies like we were um and yeah ever since i was young and then i met my writing partner who became my producing partner directing partner Evan when i was 12 so i was very young but ever since ever since then i can remember i was like obsessed with movies basically yeah and stand -up that came in at 12 years old as well roughly yeah you know for me i loved comedy in general and i love stand -up comedy my parents were big stand -up comedy fans but truthfully it was kind of like a means to an And to me, because I, again, it's funny because it's like, it was like weirdly well thought out for being 12 or 13 years old.

[79] But I was like, oh, if I do stand up comedy, at that time sitcoms were very popular, Seinfeld, things like that.

[80] So I was like, I was like the most practical path for me to have some sort of success doing this is I'll start doing standup comedy.

[81] Maybe I can get an agent and then maybe I can like get on a sitcom and be like, you know, Ray Romano or Jerry Seinfeld.

[82] something like that.

[83] And then maybe I can write movies and that can like turn into a movie career basically.

[84] And that was like, if you were to ask me when I was like 12 years old, like what is your life going to be like?

[85] That's what I would have hoped it would be like, you know?

[86] Remarkable because most 12 year olds.

[87] I know.

[88] I'm thinking like that.

[89] What was school?

[90] What was your relationship like with school?

[91] Was there any influence there on you as a man today, that early relationship with school in your peers?

[92] For sure.

[93] I mean, the first movie I wrote was super bad with Evan and it was very much informed by our high school experience.

[94] It's largely based on real things that happened.

[95] I would say the educational aspect of school was lost on me. And I, from a very young age, knew that my ultimate life path did not, was not going to, you know, follow, you know, an academic route, you know.

[96] And my parents never put that much emphasis on it, honestly.

[97] Like, they weren't like you have to.

[98] My dad dropped out of college, you know, that they weren't like, you have to do this, you know.

[99] I think more than anything, they actually saw that I was like very inspired to do comedy and I loved movies and they saw I was willing to work very, willing to work very hard from a very young age.

[100] And so, honestly, from the time I entered high school, which when I was 13, they were like, they didn't care that much that I was not doing that well in high school because from, because I was always working really hard on writing movies and doing stand -up comedy, like from around that time until I got a little older, but like they saw, I wasn't like lazy.

[101] I was just motivated to do something other than school, but the culture of school I loved and the things that happened at school I loved.

[102] And I thought the kids I went to school with were hilarious and we would go to parties every weekend and people's parents would be out of town and we were trying to hook up with girls and buy beer and our friends were getting licenses and fake IDs and all this shit.

[103] And I thought it was awesome and hilarious.

[104] and I went to like a public high school in like a big city, you know, like there was like 3 ,000 kids at my school.

[105] Vancouver is a real big metropolitan city with downtowns and so, you know, neighborhoods and the good area, the bad, you know, you could really get into trouble in Vancouver.

[106] So it provided a lot of like adventures, you know, and and I loved it.

[107] And I wasn't one of those people.

[108] Evan either.

[109] It's not like we were popular or cool or anything, but we weren't like tortured by high school.

[110] We were like, this is a fun adventure and we can have fun here.

[111] And, um, and especially if we don't put too much stakes on the actual like doing well here part of it.

[112] Adam, at 15 years old, you went to a Canadian comedy festival.

[113] Do you remember?

[114] I'm sure you remember.

[115] Yeah.

[116] Um, yeah, I ran into like a competition, I think it was.

[117] Yeah.

[118] Um, and, uh, yeah, and I did pretty well.

[119] I, I placed pretty well.

[120] in the competition.

[121] I was okay.

[122] I was pretty good at stand -up comedy.

[123] Like it was, yeah.

[124] Do you remember the instance where Jerry Seinfeld showed up?

[125] Yes, I do.

[126] I came.

[127] That was actually, I was auditioning to get into the Just for Laughs Festival in Los Angeles.

[128] And I show up and it's during the day, which is not great.

[129] There's not that many people there.

[130] It's maybe like five o 'clock.

[131] It's not a good time to stand -up comedy.

[132] I'm like 15 years old.

[133] I flew in for this, you know.

[134] There's comics going up and doing their thing.

[135] There's like the scout from the Just for Last festival there.

[136] And like, I'm about to go up and I'm next and the emcees about to introduce me. And yeah, and someone comes over and they're like, Jerry Seinfeld is about to show up and he's going to go up instead of you.

[137] And I was like, what?

[138] I'm like, I'm here to audition for this thing.

[139] And they're like, yeah, well, he'll go up and then you'll go up after.

[140] And I'm like, I'm going to go after Jerry Seinfeld.

[141] And they're like, yes.

[142] And so he goes up.

[143] He like, and I mean, he's a show is still all.

[144] Like, he's as famous as you can have.

[145] as a comedy star as there is alive at that moment.

[146] And it's what you're hoping.

[147] It's like you go to a stand -up comedy club at that time hoping Jerry Seinfeld will come in.

[148] And then it happened.

[149] And these people, like, it's like they won the lottery.

[150] And he comes and he just like annihilates.

[151] And then he gets off stage and then they're like, and now, like from Vancouver, 15 -year -olds, Seth Rogan.

[152] And, yeah, and I bombed horribly.

[153] and I did not get into the Just for Laugh's comedy festival and I told Jerry Seinfeld that story and he was completely uninterested he could have cared less It seems like a tough thing for a 15 year old a pretty horrific firing line for a 15 year old to put themselves in stand -up comedy yeah I think part of it honestly was informed by like my night my overall like naivete to some degree but I also So I, yeah, I was, I was good enough at it that it instantly wasn't like a viscerally painful experience, you know what I mean?

[154] And it's probably, you know, I played some sports in high school, but it was probably a similar, I imagine it's a similar mentality where you're like, yeah, there's stakes to this and there's ups and downs to this, but overall I'm good at it and I seem to be moving, progressing in the right direction.

[155] so it's worth the stress of it in order to pursue it, you know?

[156] And at times it's phenomenal and as fun as you would hope anything would be, you know?

[157] But also, honestly, what was more fun was at that time, me and Evan started to write Superbad, and that was like what I really love doing.

[158] And like, I like doing stand -up comedy and writing stand -up jokes, but like I loved sitting with Evan and writing a movie.

[159] And to me, that was like, at the time, it's frustrating because you're like, will this ever get made?

[160] Is this pointless?

[161] Are we wasting our time?

[162] Is this just a silly pursuit?

[163] But it was still, it was, I just loved it, you know?

[164] There's this through line in all your sort of creative work often, which is about, like, making people laugh.

[165] Yep.

[166] Have you ever figured out, like, why, you know, because I've sat here with a lot of comedians.

[167] And I've, and it, there always seems to be something about comedians where, I don't know, some instance when they, you know, maybe they're younger or some kind of inspiration in their life, which made them somewhat compelled to, and, and, and, and, and, and almost energized by the pursuit of making other people laugh and happy.

[168] Have you ever, does that resonate with you and have you ever identified where that comes from in you, that pursuit of making people laugh and happy?

[169] Um, I think for me, I don't, I don't, I like, I think some comedians are like a dark origin story, you know what I mean?

[170] Um, I don't, you know, um, I think for me, it was like something I liked and something I was good.

[171] good at and something that I was very like encouraged and and fostered to do from a very young age and I was lucky enough to find another guy my age who was as good at it as I was and as interested at at doing it as I was which is like miraculous like I had a lot of like you know I read part of that Malcolm Gladwell book and I'm not you know about the uh about, you know, the miraculous kind of set of circumstances that it takes to become, like, remotely successful in this terrible world of ours.

[172] You know what I mean?

[173] And, like, I think it was things, like, my parents were big comedy fans, so I saw comedy from a very young age.

[174] I'm from Canada, which is, like, a place that acclaims comedy and respects comedy.

[175] So culturally, I'm, like, from a place where comedy is, like, you know, a relevant part of the culture, you.

[176] you know, Canadians, some of their biggest, like, exports are comedians and comedy shows.

[177] Lauren Michaels is Canadian, you know, SCTV, you know, a lot of great, some of the greatest comedians of all time are Canadian, you know?

[178] And so it's something that was always kind of just always a part of like the DNA of being a Canadian person, I think, to some degree as well.

[179] Also, I'm from Vancouver where they made movies, not to say it's like I grew up in Hollywood, but like you would see movie sets around you would see I went to a high school they shot some movies at the high school because it was a very like cinematic looking high school so you would see trucks and stuff like that I don't know anyone who worked in the entertainment industry but like you kind of would see it around so it made it a little more obtainable and if we lived like in the middle of fucking nowhere and it just seemed like completely abstract you know what I mean so I think that I think that like my path is honestly one of like being supported And being, and working hard and being very diligent, but also like having an environment that kind of like bolstered my ambition.

[180] You know what I mean?

[181] Yeah.

[182] 16 years old, you get a part in freaks and geeks.

[183] Yeah.

[184] And that brings you to L .A. with your family.

[185] Yeah.

[186] What?

[187] Your entire family came to L .A. My parents.

[188] My sister was in college.

[189] And I read that they'd lost their jobs around that time.

[190] Yes.

[191] And that made you.

[192] sold breadwinner in the house?

[193] Basically, yes.

[194] Did that feel like pressure?

[195] Being 16 years old and being the breadwinner for your house because your parents have lost their jobs.

[196] In a way, it felt like an alleviation of pressure because after six, I remember my dad telling me, like after like three months or six months of being on freaks and geeks, he's like, you've made more money in this time than I've made my entire life put together.

[197] so like if anything was like an amazing alleviation of of a weight because there was money all of a sudden for the first time in our lives things could be paid for easily you know and so I was more than happy to provide for everybody because I suddenly had access to an amount of money that was like absurd compared to the amount of money that was like absurd compared to the amount of money I grew up with access to or anyone in my family grew up with with access to, you know?

[198] Your work ethic, which I've read about over and over again throughout your book and throughout various interviews you've done, seems to be pretty spectacular.

[199] And one of the quotes that I read is, if there were any kind of dark driving force behind your early ambitions, quote, it would be some sense of financial insecurity.

[200] Yeah, probably.

[201] But that's gone, which is maybe why I don't make his, many things as I used to.

[202] That's an interesting journey to go on, being driven by having that sort of financial insecurity developing a real strong relationship with work and then that falling away.

[203] Yeah.

[204] And it fell away pretty fast, I think, honestly.

[205] Like, I think by the time I, you know, there was a point.

[206] So yeah, I was on Freasing Geeks and then undeclared.

[207] And then I I didn't work for years.

[208] But by then, it felt like my parents were, like, incapable of making enough money to survive on their own also.

[209] So, like, once I had some money, like, they, it was just bonus money, you know what I mean?

[210] Like, part of what had happened is they lost their jobs and we lived in a house.

[211] So we sold our house in Vancouver and, and that's why everyone moved to L .A., so there was a little more money available because we had sold their house.

[212] So, like, it's not like my parents were, like, just like a, you know, a leech on, you know, they, they were able to, like, a baseline level of like survivable income so when i had more money it just um yeah it kind of just added a cushion of comfort and then there were times then they moved back to canada um when i was like 18 and i was in la and that's around when i became unemployed for years and years so i did then start to have financial burden but it was like a soul file you know it was my own financial burden and And it was not, I did not feel like I was letting my whole family down or not, you know, providing for my whole family.

[213] It was more, I just, myself was like, oh, I might have to move, I might have to move back in with my family because I might not be able to afford to live in Los Angeles for longer because I was unemployed for years, basically.

[214] Yeah.

[215] You were unemployed for years and years.

[216] Yeah.

[217] After that first role on freaks and geeks.

[218] Yeah, we did Freaks and Geeks and we did a show called Undeclared.

[219] That was on Fox in 2000, 2001.

[220] and then I basically didn't work for like three years, essentially.

[221] What's going through, you know, you're presumably doing auditions and stuff like that.

[222] Yeah.

[223] Does it ever, like, what's that phase like of unemployment?

[224] Most people quit at that point.

[225] That's the point where you say, fuck this.

[226] That didn't even occur to me. I did not, I was pretty getting, I was pretty kind of had like a chip on my shoulder to some degree.

[227] I was writing a lot still, you know.

[228] we were still that's probably when we wrote Pineapple Express you know so we had finished super bad no one wanted to make it but we thought it was good so we kind of put it on the shelf we're like let's write another movie and then we wrote Pineapple Express so we were busy and we thought it was awesome and we thought both the movies were awesome and in general we were also getting like very positive feedback as writers we just weren't getting like hired to do anything thing and no one would make Arpoofi.

[229] So it was this weird mixture of things kind of being like encouraging and very frustrating at the same time.

[230] And that's almost like the worst part about kind of being in that part of your career, which is the part of the career most people who live in Hollywood are in, which is one where it's like any given phone call is one that is like making your fucking life or one that is yet another door slamming in your face that you have to like just suck up and keep moving forward.

[231] you know what I mean and and so that that's happening a lot at that time um yeah and seeing your friends also start to do very well and start to make things you know that is uh it's very encouraging in some ways but you inherently get very jealous and you start to doubt yourself and you start to doubt if you are good enough to um do it or if anyone will ever like see in your seeing you what you see in yourself, you know.

[232] But yeah, it's, you know, it's pretty warm in all and I usually, so it's easy to just hang out and keep plugging off.

[233] What's your, use the word doubt yourself now.

[234] What's your journey been with self -doubt?

[235] People would obviously look at you and assume that you have zero self -doubt because you've been so successful what you've done.

[236] I think all creative people and people who have creative, pursuits in their life have self -doubt.

[237] Like, it's impossible to put yourself out there, I think, from my experience and from meeting all the creative people I've met in my life, from people who, you know, it's their first day on set, you know, and they've one line to Steven Spielberg.

[238] They all have self -doubt.

[239] They're all worried people won't like what they're doing, that people are going to think it's stupid, that they're going to think they're stupid for wanting to do it, that they're going to just reject it and by proxy, reject them.

[240] You know, that is like, that is, from my experience, pretty constant across the board for all creative types who genuinely, like, care about what they do.

[241] I'm sure there are some people who technically, like, are maybe actors or something and do not have any of that, but they're probably not very good and don't care that much about what they do.

[242] You know what I mean?

[243] But in general, from my experience, I would say that applies to creative.

[244] People are self -doubt.

[245] And for me, it's, it comes in waves, you know?

[246] You have, you make a thing everyone likes, gets a little better.

[247] You make a thing everyone fucking hates, it gets a little worse.

[248] You know, it, you know, and, and that's a part of also doing what, you know, I do is like, you get, you know, like there, you know, it's like, you know, it's funny.

[249] I was saying to someone I work with the other day like I'm not I'm at the point it's funny in my career where like not a lot of people are in a position to like yell at me in my job but like the New York Times will like publish an entire article like saying I I suck at my job and so like that's the tradeoff is like I've worked my way up to not having to deal with that much like personal conflict and face to face conflict but I will have like just like a cultural institution tell everyone that I suck You know, and so that, that's kind of like, that, that will add self -doubt, things like that, you know.

[250] And, yeah, and so it's for me, it's for me something that's present, but I try not to let it stop me from doing the things that I think are interesting and, and the things that I think I would enjoy watching, you know.

[251] Has it ever hurt you?

[252] Oh, yeah.

[253] I mean, what, like, what, self -doubt?

[254] I'd say a lack of self -touch.

[255] How does maybe hurt me at times?

[256] I mean, like the criticism, like someone...

[257] Oh, yeah.

[258] Of course, it hurts everyone.

[259] Yes, very much so.

[260] I think if most critics knew how much it hurt the people that made the things that they are writing about, they would second guess the way they write these things.

[261] Like, it's devastated.

[262] It takes...

[263] I know people who never recover from it.

[264] Honestly, years, years, decades of being hurt by, because it's very personal, you know.

[265] It's not like, it's not, it is personal, you know.

[266] And so it is devastating when you are being, like, institutionally told that your personal expression was bad.

[267] Like, that is, like, devastating, you know?

[268] And something that people carry with them literally their entire lives.

[269] And I get why.

[270] It fucking sucks.

[271] You know, I read it, I was reading through various moments in your life where, I mean, you've had back -to -back -to -back successes, so it's hard to find stuff.

[272] That's definitely not true.

[273] No, you have.

[274] You seem to, I mean, from the birds I view, you look at your portfolio.

[275] I've been trending well.

[276] Yeah, you've been trending well.

[277] The thing you talk about, and you've spoken about in interviews, is Green Hornet, where you've received some critical reviews for that.

[278] Can you zoom, if I was a fly on the wall in one of those moments where you've received, that feedback is coming.

[279] in and it's coming in, you know, critically, what would I see if I was a fly on the wall in your home?

[280] Like, what do you stay in your bed?

[281] Do you, like, what's the, the human impact it has on you?

[282] It's different things.

[283] And I think there's different, you know, and that's another funny thing about making movies is like, and having like, and just being like a person who works a lot, is like life goes on.

[284] Like, you could be making another movie as your movie is bombing, which is a funny thing because it's it's bittersweet because like you you know that things will be okay you're already you're already working you know what i mean if the fear is the movie bombs and you won't get hired again well you don't have to worry about that you're already you've been hired it's too late you know um but it's an emotional way conundrum in times just just dealing with that and navigating that you know um for greenhorn it's quite literally yeah like the critics were the reviews were coming out and it was pretty bad and people just kind of, like, hated it.

[285] Like, it seemed like a thing.

[286] People just were taking, like, joy and disliking a lot.

[287] You know what I mean?

[288] But it was, it opened to, like, $35 million, which was like, I think at the time, the biggest opening weekend I'd ever been associated with in any capacity.

[289] And so it was also, like, it did pretty well.

[290] And that's, and it was a funny thing where it really didn't, that one, and that's what's nice sometimes is, like, you do get, you know, you can grasp for some.

[291] sense of success at times you know and and and uh but i honestly think things like the interview were more like painful as far as like people really taking joy and talking shit about it and uh and uh really kind of questioning you know the types of people that would want to make a movie like that in general like i think yeah that felt far more personal i think greenhorn it felt like i just had fallen victim to like, which was true, like, you know, a big fancy thing, which was like, I was super, and we were just kind of like, also like ahead of the curve a little bit too much, I think, as well to something like, we were early on that, on that wave, you know, and so I think that was easier to deal with in a lot of ways because it was like not so much like a creative failure on our parts, but more like a conceptual failure.

[292] I think, like, the interview people more treated us like we had creatively failed, which sucked much worse.

[293] And that's happened a few times, yeah, where people really act like we've just, and again, it's not, I'm not going to act like this is that bad.

[294] Like, this is not on the grand scale of things in life.

[295] It's not that bad.

[296] Like, and I've gotten much better at dealing with it as well.

[297] And I think when I was younger, I really like, did not have as much perspective as I do.

[298] And now I am not.

[299] I do not carry it with me nearly as much as I used to, you know?

[300] Yeah.

[301] It's like, it is the center of your world, though, these things, because you've pulled your creative heart into something.

[302] So it is you.

[303] Oh, yes.

[304] It feels like a personal rejection.

[305] It's like very much.

[306] Attached to yourself.

[307] Oh, yeah.

[308] It feels like a very personal rejection.

[309] And it doesn't feel like constructive.

[310] It feels human impact, though.

[311] What's like the human?

[312] Yeah, yeah.

[313] I don't know.

[314] Sometimes you try different things.

[315] Sometimes you go out to dinner when you just try to forget about it.

[316] Sometimes you sit there while.

[317] movies sometimes you're literally just like sitting on the couch fucking pissed and devastated um that i've had different approaches i used sometimes i would go to the beach i used to have a house on the beach and i would go to the beach the weekends my movies came out um yeah and and any opening weekend honestly and any time i have a thing coming out it sucks because it just is stressful it's like birth like it which is just an inherently painful process even though it is maybe bringing something beautiful into the world it is a painful act and I think that is like what releasing a movie is for the people who made it is like in some ways it's inherently painful and and in some ways it's inherently beautiful and joyous but in some ways it's also just very painful this is the story of creativity yeah making anything that you care about that is slightly challenging or original or new risks both exceptional success but also potential fail like yeah and the more personal it is it's like the more the higher the highs can be if it works and the lower the lows are if it doesn't so you know the more the more personal the rejection feels yeah a lot of people can relate to that I know for sure that that period say after you receive feedback on the interview how long is that process of trying to like get back on your feet and get it out your head and stop it occupying your mind I mean it's interesting like I think it's different, and it rears its head in different ways.

[318] And I think like imposter syndrome or self -doubt or, you know, this phenomenon where like the more you know about a thing, the less you feel you know about it in some ways and vice versa.

[319] You know, I think that is something, again, that is like a common theme in creative people's lives.

[320] The fact that you read about it all the time is comforting, honestly, because you're like, oh, it's a thing.

[321] It's out there, you know.

[322] but to me it's never been that hard to do the creatively risky thing and it's never been that hard for me to convince myself to like take the leap and do the thing that is maybe crazy and do the thing that is a big swing and and to put myself out there and I think that's also what's good I guess about being rejected enough times is you kind of like you see like it sucks but you can survive it and so it's ultimately worth trying to do it again you know and and and even the worst case scenario is survivable if you just keep going uh from a creative standpoint you know what i mean so i think uh that's also like yeah uh where yeah we haven't stopped it's it'll nag at you at times but if anything my biggest fear is to make a thing that's like fucking boring or not taking a big swing or it doesn't seem like it's trying to push things forward or like it's just like happy to relax and you know like I think like the fact that we get to make anything movies TV shows it's like there are so many people who are trying to do it and we get to do it so like we we should fucking go for it and we're spending the money of these giant fucking conglomerate corporations like they're letting us spend millions of dollars to make our crazy things like we should go for it like we should really look back and be like wow like can you fucking believe we did that we that we spent hundreds of millions of amazon's dollars doing that you know like like that that's what's exciting so um yeah it's something that like nags you but I think luckily for me and I and it's who I'm surrounded by you know to some degree as well but like we've always you know there's moments where you doubt yourself and you kind of bobble, but I've had always someone being like, fuck it, let's do it, you know.

[323] I get the sense, funnily enough, from just a couple of minutes we spent together that you have no choice.

[324] Like, you almost don't, you're such a lover of what you do at heart that you almost couldn't not do it.

[325] Like, yeah.

[326] So here's a question then.

[327] If I told you today that you could no longer make movies or do anything in the entertainment or creative space.

[328] That would be hard.

[329] I become a ceramicist.

[330] which I do spend a lot of time I know I've read it It would be a real bummer though What would actually Your life be?

[331] I mean I wouldn't It would I could I it's tough to think of Because it is very like ingrained with who I am And what I do and like And it is like I could stop working I have enough money to If I didn't want to keep working I could I could never work again And live the exact life I live now until I die, you know?

[332] It, I have no kids.

[333] I have not trying to leave generational wealth to anybody.

[334] Like, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, like, we could just keep going.

[335] It's genuinely, because, like, I enjoy it.

[336] And it's a part of who I am and how I spend my day and what I love doing.

[337] And people generally seem to enjoy the output, which I enjoy.

[338] and it seems to be additive to the creative landscape of film and television, the things that I get to be a part of, you know?

[339] And so, yeah, it's, but it mostly comes down to I just like doing it.

[340] And so it would be hard to think of what else I would do because, like, on it, like I just write, I love, I enjoy writing.

[341] And I've been doing it since I've been writing, like, you know, screenplays since I was 12 years old.

[342] know, I'm 40.

[343] So it's like, it's so much a part of who I am that like I do it all the time.

[344] If I have, I'm generally working on a few things.

[345] If I'm making up a coffee and have five minutes, like I'll write for a few minutes.

[346] Like, uh, you know, I, I, I genuinely enjoy it.

[347] So it, it would be hard to imagine.

[348] I wouldn't, I don't know what I would do.

[349] You're, um, you have ADHD.

[350] I don't know.

[351] maybe I mean I'm pretty good at focusing honestly I read that um I read that you had Tourette's and ADHD I do oh yeah I guess Tourette's I mean maybe I'm more true yeah I mean uh I I had some Tourette's like yeah some Tourette's which is connected to ADHD yeah yeah what does that ever had a role in your life does it been cause a little um I don't fully understand Tourette's if I'm being completely honest I don't well it's kind of uh connected to like a compulsion uh where you, it's like, it manifests in like physical ticks and twitches.

[352] The most extreme versions are like people, you know, screaming like, you know, swear words and shit like that, but it all roots from like a compulsion to do it.

[353] And like, it's like scratching an inch that's the best way I can describe it.

[354] I'm sure you've been sitting across from people who Twitch or have a weird eyebrow thing they're doing or a weird thing they're doing, you know what I mean?

[355] and I see it so often and that is a mild case of Tourette syndrome and I think so many people have it who are undiagnosed and I know the exact feeling those people have when they are doing that and it literally feels like you have an itch on your hand and you're scratching it and it's the same thing from like a musculature like movement standpoint you feel like if you don't cock up your eyebrow you're not scratching that itch And when you do, you're like, ah, I did it.

[356] And you have that?

[357] Yeah, at times.

[358] For me, it was always pretty mild physically, but I still, it does.

[359] I feel the urge at times, but I'm very good at not doing it.

[360] I'm not quite cut out for this world, but weed makes it okay.

[361] And in a different interview, I read that you'd said, you would find life really hard without marijuana.

[362] Yeah, for sure.

[363] I smoke weed all day.

[364] So I would, yeah, I would imagine it would be.

[365] Worse if I didn't.

[366] All day, every day?

[367] Today?

[368] Oh, yeah.

[369] Every day.

[370] Yes, I smoke weed all day every single day since I was 20 years old, maybe, something like that.

[371] 20?

[372] Yeah.

[373] And I've been very productive in that time.

[374] Clearly, clearly that's what I've been missing.

[375] When you say that you wouldn't be cut out for this world, but we'd make it okay, what do you mean?

[376] I mean in the book and in life.

[377] I would, I equate it to shoes or glasses.

[378] Like, it is, you know, our shoes like a crutch we use, or are they a thing that we have culturally decided to make our lives easier and better?

[379] You know, that is exactly how weed is to me. Could I not wear shoes?

[380] Probably.

[381] Could I not smoke weed?

[382] Probably.

[383] Would I just much rather smoke weed all day?

[384] Yes.

[385] You know?

[386] and it's the same that is how I view it it only makes my journey through this life more comfortable more palatable easier to to process easier to manifest the things that I want to do exactly how I would be trying to do the same things I do in my life without shoes on or without my glasses on or without a jacket on that is what it would be like for me to do it without smoking weed all day.

[387] It just, I could probably do it.

[388] It would just be a bit more of a fucking pain in the ass.

[389] So that, Seth Rogen, that didn't smoke weed all day, every day.

[390] What would, what do you believe his life would be, how his life would be different?

[391] It, I mean, I would not probably have a weed company.

[392] I probably wouldn't have made the movie Pineapple Express.

[393] I maybe wouldn't, I mean, who the fuck knows?

[394] I maybe wouldn't have conceived of a lot of the things I've conceived of over the years.

[395] Wheat has been always like a very powerful social, um, uh, element for me and my friends.

[396] We've hung out lot of the ideas we've come up with we've come up with hanging out and smoking weed you know you don't come over the movie sausage party like sausage party you know not hanging out and smoking weed um so i i think like the environment it has created amongst me and my collaborators has been very additive to for sure to my creative output so um yeah i mean in in abstract ways and in very specific ways, you know, like Pineapple Express being, you know, the most specific probably.

[397] I was looking at the wording.

[398] So the phrase, I'm not quite cut out for this world.

[399] I found really curious.

[400] I don't think any human is.

[401] That's more, I think no human is quite cut out for the world, as is exemplified by the fact that we wear underwear, that we need toilet paper, that we have shoes.

[402] We're not like these pure beings that just like go out into the world and can exist flawlessly.

[403] We do dozens of things that are external to make our lives livable.

[404] Weed's actually natural, unlike underwear, you know, and shoes, like, and glasses, you know, it exists in the real world, but that is part of my premise is no human is quite quite out for this world.

[405] We, everyone has things they use to make their lives livable, you know, and for me, weed is one of those things.

[406] just like a roof is one of those things, you know?

[407] I can tell you the, um, the cost of the roof here because it's causing this sound.

[408] Yeah, exactly.

[409] Which is making it not great for our podcasting, which I think is an actual thing.

[410] Can you tell me, is there a cost to weed in terms of has there been a cost in your life to weed?

[411] The upsides are clear because I can see your.

[412] No, there's literally from my, you know, uh, no, I mean, I've gotten when I was younger.

[413] Because weed is illegal, stupidly, there has been situations I have found myself in that are not great in the pursuit of getting weed, but I don't blame weed for that.

[414] I blame the government for making weed illegal and making me jump through all these hoops to get it, you know?

[415] But in general, in my life, no, there has been no downside to weed or my use of weed or my love of weed.

[416] Maybe it's cost me jobs throughout my life.

[417] I'm in the Mario Brothers movie coming out soon.

[418] I'm in the Ninja Turtle's movie that I wrote and produced coming out soon.

[419] Like, I'm producing things for giant, you know, companies that do not seem to mind.

[420] So I have not, you know, Steven Spielberg put me to this movie.

[421] I've not seen a definitive impact on my career because I'm known very much for being someone who smokes weed all the time.

[422] You know what I mean?

[423] you know all that success you've had all those movies you named recently that you know some of them of which are coming out soon you know having spoken to you today i get work ethic i get your innate passion which seems to have been there since you're a child but i but there's people that have both of those things and they're not set rogan you know what i mean so is there anything else when you look back on your life you talked about the circumstance your mothers you're you know being around that culture is there anything about you in particular a talent and people find this hard to answer because it requires you to say something nice about yourself but and so celebrities often say, you know, say, oh, no, there's, you know, what is it that makes you good at what you do?

[424] Um, I think I, I think I think, man, I honestly think because I grew up watching so many movies, um, and having parents that appreciated them, um, I, from a very young age, had an inherent understanding of cinematic storytelling, of what, and that specifically from a writing standpoint from how the movies were written that is for whatever reason how my brain processed it how the characters were introduced how the conflicts between them were set up how they played out throughout the movie how they resolved themselves or didn't resolve themselves throughout the movie how they manifested and set pieces and sequences that exemplified the conflicts and the themes and the and the tensions between the characters for whatever reason from a very young age, I was able to understand and write those things.

[425] And I, you know, I look back now as like a 40 -year -old person who has produced and helped countless people with their screenplays and written countless screenplays.

[426] Like there are things about like what we put into Superbad as like 14 -year -olds that are like fundamentally functional and good in a way that is like beyond like, like, the average 14 -year -old's ability, the average writer's ability in a lot of ways, you know?

[427] Like, and that is something that me and Evan really just, we were lucky.

[428] Like, we got it.

[429] And I think, honestly, as an actor, I mostly credit my ability to act as my, from like a right, through a writing lens.

[430] And I think as an actor, I understand what the story needs.

[431] I understand.

[432] and I understand how that character needs to affect things, what that character needs to do in order for this story to be told effectively.

[433] I don't view my acting as internally as the other actors I work with.

[434] I know it.

[435] I see it.

[436] I talk to them about it all the time.

[437] I view it much more from like a big picture.

[438] Like, okay, here's the role this character plays in the story.

[439] How do I make that work as well as it possibly could?

[440] you know um and i can do it so i i have some performance ability which not everyone does but i think i think i am i think my understanding of how story works kind of helps compensate for my the fact that i'm not the greatest actor and that i am able to work with actors who are much better than i am honestly um but i think if i had to answer that question which i'm uncomfortable doing that is how i would answer it is for whatever reason me and I found a guy with the same skill which is like miraculous but like from the young age me and another guy had a very inherent sense of like how to write a movie basically there's a young creative listening to this now sat in their bedroom or driving in their car pushing their pram walking their dog whatever and they they're creative in whatever industry it could be DJing or you know author they could be an actor yeah what is the actionable advice that you could give to them to to you know give them a shot of because there's a lot of creatives out there that are struggling.

[441] Yeah.

[442] And you would have had this bird's eye view on creators that end up being successful, you know, in their careers and those that maybe have the talent, but don't end up getting there.

[443] Is there anything actionable that you can say to them that would help them end up in the talented successful group?

[444] Unfortunately, the only way to mitigate not being successful is to not quit.

[445] That's it.

[446] If you don't quit, you might make it.

[447] And if you quit, you definitely won't.

[448] And honestly, I think after all the years I've seen people make it and not make it, the only common denominator is that.

[449] Like, I've seen actors write themselves off, be like, I'm never going to fucking do this.

[450] Try to get other jobs.

[451] One of my dear friends who's an actor, he's been an actor, he's a great actor, a brilliant actor and his career ebbs and flows comes and goes he'll star on a tv show for a few years he won't work for two years he went and tried to get a job at like a car dealership one day and i was like what are you doing bad like and he's like i can't i quit acting no one's gonna fucking hire me again i'm unhireable now he's like like the star of the most successful play on broadway right now and like because he just got this role a couple of years after that and he's in uh one of the biggest movies that's coming out next year.

[452] He's in it.

[453] And it's because he didn't actually quit.

[454] He kept going.

[455] You know, and it's not, you know, especially Hollywood, it's not a fair industry.

[456] It is not fair who makes it.

[457] The best people don't make it.

[458] You know, it's very luck oriented.

[459] It's very connections oriented.

[460] I'm lucky.

[461] Like, and I also worked hard and thank God I, I, you know, am a good enough writer that I've been able to have enough longevity in my career once I got lucky, but like a lot of luck played into my success, you know?

[462] But that being said, I've seen people get lucky very random times through random ways.

[463] I was think about like Ian McKellon.

[464] Like, did you, have you heard of him before he was 65 years old?

[465] Like, that guy, like, as I had never fucking heard the words, Ian McKellen until he was Magneto and X -Men.

[466] And all of a sudden, he's like in Lord of the Rings.

[467] He's one of the most famous people on earth.

[468] He got famous when he's like 60.

[469] Like, that's what happens to people sometimes.

[470] You know what I mean?

[471] It's like, you never know, you know?

[472] And so I think that is what's interesting.

[473] And if you like it, then just don't quit.

[474] And as long as you have enough to survive, then just keep trying to do it, you know?

[475] But there's going to be something that I could do to increase my luck.

[476] Be really good at it.

[477] I think making being nice honestly being nice being the type of person people want to be around that people like that people that comes down to it want to help instead of not help that is very good like I've seen that just if people don't like being around you then then then you will fail because you need other people to help you succeed you know um working Working hard is like something you can control in a very uncontrollable world, I find.

[478] And like, you know, it's funny.

[479] I was meeting with someone recently who like ascended very high in Hollywood.

[480] And she was like, I always fetishized hard work.

[481] Like to me, that was like it.

[482] Like if you weren't working hard, I like had no regard for you basically.

[483] And like, and to me that was like, and that's a good reminder of like, Those are the people you're up against.

[484] And that was something that I always knew from a young age, was like, I don't consider myself a competitive person, but I knew succeeding in Hollywood was inherently a competitive pursuit.

[485] There's only so many jobs, and there's way more motherfuckers trying to get those jobs, than there are jobs available.

[486] So by the nature of that, I was competing with people for these jobs, and I knew I had to be able to look up.

[487] at myself and be like, am I at least working harder than everyone else who is competing for this job?

[488] I might not be better than them or smarter than them or have as many connections of them or be as good looking as them or any of these things, but I can at least work harder than them, you know?

[489] And that to me was something that was like controllable and I've never seen someone regret the amount of hard work they put into their pursuit.

[490] And so, you know, that is something that will help you succeed, I think.

[491] Has, you referenced early, you don't have any kids?

[492] I do not.

[493] That has helped me succeed as well.

[494] Definitely.

[495] Really?

[496] Oh, yeah.

[497] There's a whole huge thing I'm not doing.

[498] Which is raising children.

[499] Would it people, obviously, someone would be listening?

[500] But yeah, but it would make you happier.

[501] You know, someone might say that.

[502] I'm trying to rebuttal.

[503] I don't think it would.

[504] I've been around.

[505] obviously a lot of children.

[506] I'm not ignorant to what it's like to.

[507] I've seen everyone I know has kids.

[508] I see, you know, I'm 40 again, you know, like it's not, I know, I've, some of my friends have had kids for decades, you know.

[509] Some people want kids.

[510] Some people don't want kids.

[511] I think a lot of people have kids before they even think about it from what I've seen.

[512] Honestly, you just are told, you go through life, you get married, you have kids.

[513] It's what happens.

[514] and me and my wife were just neither of us were like that you know and um honestly the older we get the more happy and reaffirmed we are with our choice to not have kids like it was something we kind of talked about more and we're like are we made the right choice are we sure now if more than anything the conversation is like honestly thank god we don't have children we get to do whatever we want.

[515] We are in our, we're in the prime of our lives.

[516] We are smarter than we've ever been.

[517] We understand ourselves more than we ever have.

[518] We have the capacity to achieve a level of work and a level of communication and care for one another and a lifestyle.

[519] We can live with one another that we've never been able to live before.

[520] And we can just do that.

[521] And we don't have to raise a child, which the world does not need right now.

[522] And so, That was, and so yeah, it's, we're very happy with our choice to not have kids.

[523] And I just, I work, I work with a lot of people with kids.

[524] And I see definitively that I have more time to both do the things I need to do and the things I enjoy doing than they do.

[525] And not to say their kids don't bring them joy, but I say this truthfully.

[526] I, I, I, I, me and my wife seem to get a lot more active.

[527] enjoyment out of not having kids than anyone I know seems to get out of having kids speaking of your wonderful wife in my very extensive research I found a series of photos I found this one yes that's my wife Lauren exceptionally beautiful she's lovely and I found this one yes that's Lauren and her mother that's a great photo wow it's like a real photo it's a real photo where'd you get this internet that's amazing Yes, this is Lauren and her mother Adele who passed away a few years ago, yeah.

[528] You've campaigned exceptionally hard for Alzheimer's following Adel's diagnosis.

[529] Yeah.

[530] Can you tell me about that journey?

[531] Yeah, definitely.

[532] You know, it's funny, it's like a celebrity, I guess, like, you know, you're kind of asked to do a lot of charity things and find, like, a cause, I think, you know, and there's, I think there's pressure to find a cause and I think a lot of people adopt causes that are not organic to them and who they are and they kind of find themselves, you know, in the midst of a cause.

[533] And that had happened to me in the past.

[534] I would go to some charity events and I always felt very out of touch with it and didn't really understand it.

[535] And then I met my wife, and this was in regards to the charity, but also in regards to just our relationship.

[536] I'd never been in a serious relationship ever in my life, really.

[537] Like a few months here and there I had dated, but never.

[538] And in, like, 2005, I started dating my...

[539] wife Lauren and she was the first serious relationship I ever had and very soon after we started dating is when she realized her mother seemed to be showing the first signs of Alzheimer's and I knew nothing about that it really it's not in my family and and what I didn't understand is like oh it was a disease that had like no treatment no cure it was only going to steadily get worse until she died from it which was truly devastating and put me and my wife on like a pretty intense journey for the next, you know, 15 years or so, basically.

[540] And it really took a lot out of us.

[541] And my wife especially, you know, Lauren felt very out of control and very devastated and really scrambling for like an outlet or no way to gain.

[542] some kind of agency over the situation.

[543] Yeah, and our friend suggested we do a comedy show and maybe give the money to like an Alzheimer's charity.

[544] And we did and it went very well.

[545] And my wife started telling her story as a young woman whose mother was in her 50s and diagnosed with Alzheimer's.

[546] And it was really not a thing like anyone was talking about at all.

[547] And she found there was like an enormous need for people to connect with someone who was going through this because a lot of people were going through it and really no one was talking about it.

[548] And we very, we kind of found like a need for this organization that we made, HFC, which became like, you know, an Alzheimer's charity that really was like focused on talking to young people, many of whom were caretakers for their parents with Alzheimer's, you know?

[549] And again, it was just a thing.

[550] It's a very stigmatized disease and not a disease.

[551] Very many people are comfortable talking about.

[552] about it all.

[553] And yeah, and Lauren, as her mother progressed more and more, just talked about it more and more and it really, yeah, kind of made our charity more and more prominent in the space and, yeah, has allowed us to do kind of more and more things to help people.

[554] You say people don't talk about it enough.

[555] And part of that is results in people thinking about Alzheimer's as just losing your keys or forgetting a sentence or something.

[556] What is the reality of Alzheimer's as you've observed it?

[557] Well, it's different for everyone, but it's inherently for my mother -in -law, like she forgot how to speak, how to go to the bathroom, how to talk, I mean, how to eat, how to walk, and was essentially like, you know, someone you would move from the bed to the wheelchair, force feed essentially, you move back to the bed.

[558] She was like that for like seven years or something like that.

[559] I think she didn't, and again, I'm bad with years.

[560] She didn't speak for several years.

[561] And it was, yeah, if you saw her, you wouldn't assume it was dementia or Alzheimer's.

[562] You would assume she had some, like, horrific stroke or something like that.

[563] It was not, it was not what I understood a, like, cognitive decline could cause, you know?

[564] It was far more devastating.

[565] And, yeah, and I think people don't understand how kind of, of dire it is or they do understand and they just again don't like talking about it because it's really scary people are weird about their brains mental health obviously in america especially people are very weird about not a thing they like talking about um and so yeah it kind of taps into a lot of things people are just scared of in general what toll does that have on the people around her like yourself and your your wife um i mean it was just devastating for her wife especially like it was truly one of the the most upsetting thing you could imagine is like very slowly seeing your mother die over the course of years and years and years and years and years and years and years and years and years and years you know um it's uh yeah i mean it caused uh yeah it was it was very grim you know um but through the charity you know there was a lot of like kind of hope that came up at times and a lot of like uh you know kind of like wonderful things that it felt like we were able to do as a result of it.

[566] So there was kind of bittersweet moments, but in general, it was terrible.

[567] Is that been one of the hardest times of your last couple of decades for you, that process?

[568] Oh yeah, for sure.

[569] I mean, yeah, especially, you know, being married to someone who is going through something incredibly traumatic is yeah, it's hard for them and it's hard for you to know how to support them properly and and how to, you know, navigate their feelings in a, you know, productive and loving way, you know, and it's obviously much harder for them.

[570] And, you know, it is, but yeah, it's a, it can be hard for everybody.

[571] Adel passed away 2020.

[572] Yeah.

[573] what impact does that have on the family um i mean in some ways it is a a relief of burden you know especially with someone who was so sick for so long with no hope in sight for any for any way to get better you know um and and also like devastating you know and and it's something that i'm always having to, not having to remind myself, but something I'm always reminding myself of is like, you know, your wife, her mother died recently.

[574] Like there's, there's a lot going along with that.

[575] And although there's like this constant thing that we are not dealing with, there is, there is another thing, you know.

[576] And, and again, in many ways, like the active agony of her mother kind of slowly dying was, was probably worse.

[577] But this is also bad in its own way.

[578] you know mentioned americans don't like talking about their mental health yeah or really anything cognitive yeah i've never heard you speak about your mental health i don't i don't think it's that interesting that might be why anxiety uh not really not more than yeah you know i often think of i often think that the creatives over index with anxiety for kind of some of the reasons we talked about earlier yeah i don't i think i have anxiety but it I also am constantly reminding, I'm good, I think, at analyzing my own feelings and behavior to some degree.

[579] I do have anxiety sometimes, but I'm also having to remind myself that I am, like, going through things that are objectively anxiety -inducing to almost anyone, and I would probably be weird if I wasn't feeling some sort of anxiety with the amount of public facing pressure and exposure I have at times.

[580] So you just tell yourself, like, yeah, you are feeling, anxious right now because you are dealing with this thing that it has a lot of public pressure on it, you know?

[581] So I think in general, no, in general, I have pretty good mental health, I think.

[582] Ask the people who work with me. It seems like an unhuman way to live, right, being in the spotlight and being receptible to so much public feedback.

[583] Like you talked about how shoes are kind of unnatural and roofs are unnatural.

[584] There's the way that we all live these days seem to be so far from what is, what it is to be a human.

[585] Yeah.

[586] What can we, like, what do we need to do, do you think, to get back to being a little bit more human?

[587] Um, I don't know.

[588] I don't know if I'm the best person asked that too.

[589] But I, uh, I personally have tried to spend less time on social media.

[590] I think that is a good thing.

[591] I don't think that contributes.

[592] to one's humanity necessarily.

[593] What are the things that make you feel most human then and most connected?

[594] I think spending time with my loved ones, my wife, my, you know, my, my dog, my sister, my family, my parents, you know, my friends, going to dinner with my friends, going to their houses, hanging out with my friends.

[595] Even though I don't have kids, I enjoy going to my friend's house and hanging up with them and their kids, you know.

[596] You know, writing with, being creative with my friends, doing things with my friends, making things with people that I respect, and the feeling that I'm a part of making something that I am excited about and that I think is really good, that is, I, again, for me, that's like those are the moments where I feel like I am personally, like, living up to my potential, you know, and feeling like, and it is about the other people, even at times when it is work -related, you know, know, and I, and I do think, you know, the connections that you make with people, even when they are creative, are relevant and important, you know, and, and so, yeah, I think those are the things that I, like, I value is, like, personal relationships and, and creative ones, which I also view as personal.

[597] You've done, you've done so much in the, in the space of writing and entertainment, you've then embarked in other pursuits, businesses, you know, point Gray, huge success, house plant, massive success.

[598] That's in a different industry.

[599] That's in, you know, the more entrepreneurial side of your, your passions.

[600] What is it, what is it now for you?

[601] Like, what is the thing?

[602] What makes you, having achieved all of this, fired up and excited about a challenge?

[603] Um, I get excited when I, and it's, it's a simple metric, I think, which is anytime we're making a thing that I know I would be psyched if I saw it or gone.

[604] it or saw it was out in the world, I get excited.

[605] Like, and, and that's kind of it.

[606] Like, if I'm making a movie and I'm like, I would love this movie.

[607] I would see this movie and be like, this is fucking great.

[608] Whoever made this movie?

[609] Like, fuck, they went for it.

[610] They did it.

[611] I'd be jealous.

[612] I didn't make this movie.

[613] That's when I know I'm doing something good.

[614] And it's the same thing with Housewide.

[615] If we make a thing and I'm just like, this is awesome.

[616] If I saw this, I would want this.

[617] If I saw someone else made this, I'd be like, fuck, why didn't we think of that?

[618] Why didn't we make this?

[619] what were we why were we not thinking of this you know um that to me and and then when we do it and we're like we did it and we and it works as well as you wanted to and it feels how you wanted it to to me that's like it's exciting and because it isn't a creative uh expression and and and i think that's what's exciting to any again i think person with like a creative pursuit which i view house plan as and i kind of view everything as to some degree which is like it's all output that is meant to reflect my taste and my sensibilities and those and that of those who are working on it with me, you know, and that could be a movie, it could be a TV show, it could be an ashtray, it could be any number of things.

[620] But, but to me, when I'm excited about it and when it works is when I really think it is the thing that I wanted it to be, which is a thing that I'm excited about and a thing that if I saw it and someone else, made it, I'd be like, yes, that's awesome, you know.

[621] And that's the same thing since we've been writing Superbad.

[622] Like, that's why we wrote Superbad.

[623] We were like, let's write our favorite movie.

[624] Let's write the movie that we want to see.

[625] And no one else is making.

[626] And it was the same thing with Pine Am Express.

[627] This is the end.

[628] And the boys was a comic book.

[629] We loved.

[630] We're like, let's make this.

[631] No one else is going to fucking, let's make this into something, you know.

[632] It's the same thing with everything that we've done for the most part, which is like, let's make the thing we want more than anything.

[633] Why not make the thing that you think?

[634] other people will want.

[635] Because who the fuck knows what other people want?

[636] And I think luckily, that's a thing we've been lucky with is like either our taste and the public's taste has coincided or or the public has been willing to take cues from our taste and and and and and and and and and and and and and to what we're putting out there, you know what I mean?

[637] Which is just an almost intangible skill, I think, to some degree, which is just making things that connect with people in a big way.

[638] And that's not even what every creative person is trying to do.

[639] You know what I mean?

[640] I know plenty of filmmakers.

[641] Some of my favorite movies are movies that are not trying to connect with giant audiences.

[642] You know what I mean?

[643] but those are the movies we grew up loving and to us that's a fun challenge is like how do we put everything that we think is like risky and subversive and difficult about this idea into something and then have it connect and then have everyone go crazy for it and have everyone be like yes like I can't wait to see that you know um and that that's just our taste you know what I mean is we like to we're thinking of like a packed theater Friday night and just wanting people to like go bonkers you know and like that's not everyone's goal you know and so that that that's a big part of it too is like what kind of audience are you are you hoping to have you know when people you know study people like you're always looking for like the themes like what's the three things he does that like they're trying to find the like the secrets and whatever else they do that they what's his morning routine, whatever else?

[644] Your creative process, what is from your own observation the most unusual part of it?

[645] The part that you go, no one else seems to do it this way, but fuck it.

[646] I tend to be able to work on, not everyone, and I work with a lot.

[647] I'm lucky also because I get to work with a lot of, like, literally like the most brilliant people in the world who do what I do.

[648] So I have a very front row seat to, like, an incredibly high level of performance, you know, on a writing standpoint, acting standpoint, directing standpoint, all these things I'm getting to see, like, truly the best versions of it, you know?

[649] But I think, you know, for me, I am good at switching gears and compartmentalizing.

[650] I find some writers maybe would think that is strange and the idea of like writing two things, two different things in one day would be strange to some writers.

[651] The idea of like, okay, I'm going to write one TV show in the morning and then a movie in the afternoon.

[652] I think that, but again, to me it's very intuitive.

[653] Some writers find switching gears creatively, especially midday difficult.

[654] I can work on five different things throughout the day.

[655] And whenever I'm working on whatever thing it is, I'm pretty able to like fully engage on that.

[656] thing um i i physically write more than i think most people do no with on a keyboard but like i find a lot of writers want to talk about like to me i'm like just write it let's just write it let's just see how it looks let's just try it just write it down like and i think a lot of people are precious with writing and a lot of people you know it's like a big they kind of like they try to like it's very like sanctimonious or something like that you know but i i try to like really just write different versions of things share i share a lot of early versions of things with like a group of people that i trust i'm sending rough versions of things to people i'll rewrite it instantly i'll do a hundred drafts of something you know um i'm really not precious with that you know but but i don't know i mean i i don't know if like yeah i don't know what other i don't know processes honestly like it's so ingrained in who i am yeah i've been doing it since i was so young like it's it's truly like a part of like my brain chemistry is and my development was is built around you know writing and and writing movies specifically so like my my personality i think in some ways is is is engineered around writing and and and making movies in some ways because i've been doing it was so young.

[657] So I really think it's like it's become a very fluid part of who I am.

[658] And it doesn't feel like often I'm like sitting down to work.

[659] It's like it's just kind of fluid part of my day.

[660] I do also have like I'm very I get a schedule sent to me by my assistant at the end of every night that tells me what I'm doing the next day.

[661] I pretty much just do what's on the schedule.

[662] She sends you an email right?

[663] Yeah.

[664] And it will say 10 p .m. do this stuff.

[665] Yeah, it'll be like 10 a .m. to 2 a .m. And they'll be like giant.

[666] free blocks of time in there where I will write usually or me and my partner will organize our own will we'll organize our own writing time amidst that but yeah I mean I'm pretty regimented from a schedule standpoint which does surprise people because people will encounter me and be like let's get together like sometime this week and I'm always like like I'm like scheduled like a month out pretty rigorously throughout the days but if I asked you what your schedule was next week I have no fucking clue.

[667] I don't know my schedule is Monday.

[668] I'm also, yeah, like, I'm not, I'm good at, I, like, dealing what's right in front of me, honestly, as well.

[669] Like, I, I can't begin to process what's happening next week.

[670] Like, I, I, I truly, that's too much for me. Like, I, I know, like, the big things, like the benchmarks, you know what I mean?

[671] But if you're leaving the country.

[672] Yeah, if there's some big thing I have to do, but, like, in general, I've no idea what's happening the week before.

[673] Have you, a bit of a left -field one, but how?

[674] Have you, um, observed a, a point in your, your trajectory where you become somewhat so successful or somewhat, you know, so famous that happiness begins to decline?

[675] No. Um, it was never like, being famous was never like a goal for me. You know what I mean?

[676] And so I don't have like this, this complicated thing where I was like, I was trying to become famous.

[677] And then I got famous.

[678] and I realize being famous sucks.

[679] I always thought being famous kind of would suck a little bit.

[680] And so the idea that it is, you know, it's great in a lot of ways.

[681] And it does suck in some ways.

[682] But that's not honestly a thing that I have a very conflicted relationship with.

[683] I've also been pretty famous since I was like 23 years old.

[684] And like it's been a, you know, it's been a very long time since I got pretty famous.

[685] So I've had a lot of different relationships with it throughout that time, you know, almost 20 years.

[686] I guess, and where I've been at for quite some time has been a pretty good place.

[687] And I have a lot of famous friends.

[688] I see them have much rockier roads dealing with it than I do, you know?

[689] Yeah, and as far as success goes, like, no, like, if anything, it's, like, great.

[690] Like, we, I get to work with the best, you know, the filmmakers that inspired me to make movies in the first place.

[691] I get to, you know, make, you know, they bring us.

[692] ninja try.

[693] I get to make a movie out of a thing I've loved since I was a kid.

[694] We just sold a show to Apple that I'm writing and directing and starring in with my partner so we can come up with original ideas and do whatever the fuck we want, you know?

[695] And so what's the cost?

[696] There's no cost.

[697] I don't have kids.

[698] If I felt guilty that I was not being a good father, that would suck.

[699] I do not have that feeling at all.

[700] we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for and we have a new tradition on this podcast which I'll talk to you about the question left for you yeah okay the handwriting is not the best who left it I can't tell you that's the secret looking back on your love life okay can you see patterns in it good or bad and what was the greatest love of your life what did it feel like and how has it affected you up until this present moment I guess this is a good time to slide that to you.

[701] There you go, Lauren.

[702] Yeah, I mean, I made a whole movie about how I was not well liked in high school by women.

[703] And yeah, I was never, no, Lauren, my wife was the first serious relationship I ever had.

[704] I felt deeply in love with her very fast.

[705] We essentially moved in together after like a week and almost have not spent any like significant time apart since then.

[706] You know, we've never broken up.

[707] We've never had any serious issue throughout the entire time we've been together, which has been like 17 years or something like that.

[708] And if anything, she is like really helped me do better work.

[709] She's been a real supporter.

[710] And also she herself is a brilliant writer and director and filmmaker.

[711] And she's been, you know, a very at times kind of direct voice.

[712] in improving our work.

[713] I think the most tangible thing is the movie Neighbors, which we've talked about in the past, which is our most successful movie we've made.

[714] And one of the things people really liked about it, specifically, was the relationship between me and Rose Burns' character and how we are a couple, you know, traditionally in comedy for years.

[715] And my entire childhood, pretty much, it's like the comedic dynamic of a married couple was they hated each other.

[716] That was the joke.

[717] They fucking hated each other.

[718] They got on each other's nerves.

[719] They didn't like spending time together.

[720] The woman was usually annoying.

[721] The guy was usually cool and laid back.

[722] That was it.

[723] That was the comedic dynamic that essentially was like frozen into movie, you know, forever.

[724] And Lauren was the one who was like, what if it's like us?

[725] And they fucking like each other.

[726] And they both like to smoke weed.

[727] And they both do stupid things.

[728] And they both go out and party.

[729] And I'm not telling you ever to not do something fucking stupid.

[730] if anything I'm doing stupid things too and we put that in the movie and it completely changed the dynamic and I honestly think it's like one of the reasons the movie became so like liked and and successful and so that's like a specific example and there's many like what's life like without her though thank God there's not a whole life about her we hang out a lot and I I don't really leave LA to make movies anymore honestly part of the reason is I just like spending time with her and and i don't like leaving los angeles as a result of it i used to travel much more to make movies and shoot movies in other cities and it sucked and i would go weeks we'd go weeks without seeing each other and and ultimately you're just like this isn't worth it like this is my life like like i'm not like saving up to cash in on something later like i'm i'm living my life not being surrounded by the people i want to be surrounded by so i can go make a movie and like that That at times might be worth it, but I've done everything I can to not have that happen.

[731] And if you're willing to make a little less money, you can more often than not shoot a movie in Los Angeles.

[732] It's funny.

[733] When I asked you what makes life great and what makes life more human, everything, every answer you gave came with the second part of the sentence, which was with friends, with the person I love with.

[734] Every answer was with people.

[735] And so it's quite, I think, inspiring and important to hear that you're orientating your life now that you can so that it's surrounded by people.

[736] Yeah, and I think it's always how I came up, thank God.

[737] And, like, I, you know, my parents had a lot of friends.

[738] They always had people living with us in our house that were divorced or town.

[739] Like, it was, I was in like, I felt like I was in like a community.

[740] And then I moved to L .A. and I, like, fell in with the community.

[741] And I had my friend, Evan, and he moved in.

[742] And we kind of made a little community.

[743] Comedy especially Feet is more of a team sport than other, I think, creative pursuits.

[744] And it's funny.

[745] Like, I remember years ago being at like that Vanity Fair Oscar party.

[746] And it's like, you know, big crazy party.

[747] Everyone in Hollywood's there.

[748] And there's like one corner of the party where every comedian is.

[749] And they're like all together in one little lump.

[750] And like, and it was like, and it was so funny.

[751] it's like no other genres like that like they're not it's like all the serious actors are together they're they're all spread out they're all talking to people but if you were a comedian you were in this one little like circle where you kind of felt safe you kind of felt insulated you kind of felt like you were with your people and that that community as far as work goes and I'm friends with like everyone I work with which is like great like the guys I do sausage party with I grew up with them the guy you know like the the the the it like goes on and on and on and on like i i i tend to work with people that i've known a really long time and so when i'm working i'm getting to be with people that i that i genuinely care about and i'm friends with you know what a privilege yeah you're the first person to open this box great the first person to ever open this box this is a new tradition we're starting from here on out exciting all the guests that have been on this podcast all the questions they've written in this book oh well they're on cards now they're cards now.

[752] Fantastic.

[753] You got swag!

[754] Called the DiR of a CO Conversation cards.

[755] You're going to be, you're going to be, I've put 20 of them, there's 60 of them in total, 60 or 100 of them in total.

[756] I've put 20 of them in here.

[757] All I'm going to ask you to do is to pick one at random and then answer the question.

[758] Okay.

[759] I'm going to do it.

[760] Got a QR code.

[761] Hey, it's got their handwriting.

[762] What is the greatest gift another human who's given you.

[763] Also, I got paid a lot of money to make Green Hornet, so that was a good.

[764] No, it's love, though.

[765] It's for sure love.

[766] Thank you, Seth.

[767] The hardback version of your, the paperback version of your book is now out.

[768] It's out.

[769] And it's phenomenal.

[770] Thank you.

[771] It's phenomenal.

[772] It was fun to write.

[773] I mostly didn't want to humiliate myself.

[774] That was Michael.

[775] I was talking to another friend of mine who's writing a book the other day.

[776] And I was just like, my whole goal was for the book to come out and the general consensus to be that I'm not a fucking idiot, which I did.

[777] I feel, I feel very secure with that.

[778] Thank you.