Ivan Toney: I’m Finally Ready To Speak! The Truth About His Football Ban And His Future Team!

[0] In May 26th, you did a famous tweet.

[1] I'll speak soon with no filter.

[2] You ready to speak?

[3] 100%.

[4] Ivan Tony!

[5] Ivan Tony handed an 18 -month ban.

[6] Seismic news for the Premier League.

[7] That sums it all.

[8] Football is brutal.

[9] Like 15, being rejected at Leicester, 18.

[10] I got to walls.

[11] A lot of squad number.

[12] Took the pictures.

[13] I'll know where the club said.

[14] They're not looking to sign you no more.

[15] You have scoliosis in your back.

[16] It hasn't affected your game.

[17] Tony.

[18] Ivan Tony.

[19] I don't feel like it has hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

[20] I'm built different.

[21] Ivan Tony has won his first England call -up.

[22] You missed out on the final World Cup squad.

[23] Do you know why?

[24] Allegations, somebody's out to get me to stop me from playing for England.

[25] Ivan Tony has been suspended for eight months with breaching betting rules.

[26] I read the whole FA report.

[27] You acknowledged that you lied in that meeting with the FA.

[28] I didn't lie, I just couldn't really remember.

[29] You admit to 232 breaches.

[30] Joy of those, I didn't do, but I took responsibility so the whole process could get cleared up.

[31] The bit that I just struggle with is that using someone else to do the bets.

[32] You said to your mate, I can't have that one in my name.

[33] Betts for your team to lose.

[34] It's a bigger story.

[35] What impact was it having on your life?

[36] With me, I'd never show nothing.

[37] I never show emotion.

[38] It's been times.

[39] I've just, I'm in a room on my own.

[40] Look into thin air and just, it hurt.

[41] When I'm back, I did the talk on my feet.

[42] I'm going to get back to football.

[43] Clubs are going to come knocking.

[44] The next club I'll go to, if I was to move, it would be a...

[45] I always believe that to understand a person, and you have to understand their earliest years.

[46] I kind of see our earliest years as the like oven that we're formed in.

[47] So if I, if you take me back to your earliest years, what do I need to know about you to understand the man you are today?

[48] What were the characteristics of that environment that shaped you?

[49] Just out of the front of where I live is like on the front is a park.

[50] And like the older guys will just be out the front playing and there's me at like seven, eight, trying to get involved.

[51] And these guys are like 15, 16.

[52] And they were playing rough.

[53] The amount of you're 8, 9, 10 trying to play with us, play with them, they're going to be rough.

[54] So that kind of helped me into today's game, how I am now, progress a lot quicker.

[55] And even when I was like 16 breaking through at Northampton, I kind of had that bashing around at a young age by the older guys.

[56] So being 16, getting bashed around by men, let's say.

[57] I was kind of like used to it.

[58] What about hard work?

[59] What was your, were you a hardworking man at that age?

[60] In terms of running and I never liked running.

[61] I was always the lazy one at the back of the, at the back of the group because I knew when it's time to get on the pitch, I would score goals.

[62] But like, we all know hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

[63] So it's like, if you got the talent and you can work on a hard work and put them both together, then you give yourself the best chance of, becoming a top athlete and you and you put the work in to improve that part of your game and attitude yeah i had to because there was when i was training like when i was at lester i got told i wasn't getting a scholarship there so then i went to i didn't really want to play football as much because being rejected at lester it's kind of like okay let me just chill for now but then like my parents were just like go to go to go to Northampton because there was a game that we played Northampton when I was at Leicester and then I think Northampton said if anybody gets released from them, let us know.

[64] I think Leicester must have put me in touch with Northampton and I was kind of like I'm in an hour and about going but then I ended up going and it was kind of like everybody's playing for a scholarship and then it was like on the last day everybody already knows they're getting a scholarship and I was the only one that wasn't told so everyone is in the dressing room talking you've got scholarship scholarship and I'm there still on trial thinking when am I getting told and it wasn't until the next morning on the meeting like the first meeting of all the scholarship players joined up I got a phone call and said he's got a scholarship we'd like him to come down and I think that point was kind of like okay I got a scholarship this is my chance now but there was a moment there where you were because of the rejection from Lester you were considering doing something else with your life?

[65] Yeah, I feel like nobody likes rejection.

[66] Like, being rejected, it's not the best feeling.

[67] And it being like, basically, you're not good enough to be playing football.

[68] How I saw it, you're not good enough to be playing football.

[69] Even though it was just, I'm not good enough for Lester.

[70] I might be good enough somewhere else.

[71] Somebody else might value my qualities a lot more than Lester did.

[72] It's hard to see that in the moment, though, in it?

[73] Yeah, it's very hard, it's very hard.

[74] And what was, how old, 16?

[75] It was like 15.

[76] 15, yeah.

[77] It's kind of like, you don't want it, you don't really want that rejection again.

[78] It's like a kind of fear of getting that again.

[79] Then when I did, like I said, when I got the scholarship, I just knew it wasn't happening again.

[80] Because your journey through football just generally has been a real climb.

[81] You know, it's been a real, real climb.

[82] And also I reflect on the fact that most, so many kids at that age 16 years, old, they get a rejection and they don't bounce back from it.

[83] And if they don't make it to the very top, they'll often take that badly and pursue a different career path.

[84] But you rejected at 16, you persevered, you got into the team at Northampton, you made a good impression there.

[85] And then eventually you end up at Newcastle at what, 19?

[86] 18.

[87] 18 years old.

[88] How was that experience?

[89] It was crazy.

[90] First time away from home at such a young age, 18.

[91] is like and as well you thought you was a man like from league two there was talks with you going to a primary league team and like i would never in the the phampton changing feel like i was a man like there was talks going on but nothing's done until it's done so it's kind of like actually before i was going to newcastle i was supposed to go to wolves right but i've got there i got to walls.

[92] I've met everybody, went in the changing room, got my number on, took the pictures, then they come to the contract side.

[93] And then I think there was a bit of talk with my agent and the club on certain things and then it related back to us.

[94] It was all just confused me, my family, didn't know what was going on.

[95] And then I don't know where the club come out and said we're not looking to sign you no more due to you having scoliosis in your back so we was so confused from getting the squad number meeting all the players meeting all the staff and then for them to come out and say your scoliosis in your back we wasn't we're not looking to sign you it's kind of like is that really the reason is there more behind it but then from going having to go back to Northampton like I've said my goodbyes at Northampton and I'm supposed to be going to sign in the walls.

[96] Then the next day I'm back in Northampton and training with the boys.

[97] Everybody's like, what's happening?

[98] And the man I just sat me down and said, listen, listen, don't dwell on that.

[99] I'm sure other things were coming, come into place.

[100] And I think a few weeks later, Newcast were interested and I went there.

[101] Scoliosis in your back.

[102] What is scoliosis and were they aware that you had scoliosis?

[103] I feel like there was aware because before we set up to see a specialist because, They, they, I feel like, they wanted to know what was going on, how bad it was, because I think certain sclerosis, it stops you from walking at a certain age and just gets worse and worse.

[104] But I feel like, we did see a specialist, he said you'd be lucky to be walking at 28 still.

[105] Really?

[106] Yeah.

[107] And then I was just, like, it doesn't really register.

[108] Like, you think at the time at 18, I'm thinking, well, I'm fine now.

[109] I'm enjoying football now.

[110] so it's not really registered but being 27 closer to 28 you kind of think well I'm strong fit and healthy touch foot continuously so what is scoliosis where your back's not straight it's like got a slight bend yeah yeah bend it hasn't affected your game I don't feel like it has and yeah going back to moving to Newcastle it's like going from league two to primary league it's crazy like as soon as I went there I had no fancy you get recognised but it's not crazy and then going to there Newcastle I'm in the hotel everybody's recognising me straight away it's like a crowd outside the hotel waiting to see me and it's kind of like at 18 this is all happening so fast you're away from home away from home a long way as well what are you feeling when Newcastle make that phone call and they say they're interested in you and then you move there what does it feel like as an 18 year old because I can only imagine I was always playing football when I was younger I was always hoping a little bit to be a football I knew I wasn't good enough but you know I'm going with that whole got injured at 16 bullshit everyone yeah it is crazy it is crazy it's so excited like you want to tell everybody you want to say oh i'm going here tomorrow yeah i'm going here i'm going here but with me how i am nothing's done till it's done especially after the walls stuff yeah like that was on the back of our mind so i'm thinking right just waiting to it's all sorted then you can tell everyone when i'm so excited i just want to tell this person that person this is something so it's yeah it was it was crazy my head was all over the place and thinking i'm actually going to the premier league like I've made it.

[111] I'm here.

[112] But little did I know it is I thought I've made it.

[113] What happened?

[114] I feel like when you take that step, you get noticed more.

[115] You get more money.

[116] And you just do silly things.

[117] Like, you get mixing the wrong crowd, going out here and there, buying things you wouldn't normally buy.

[118] Just a bit naive.

[119] and as well being away from my family although they kept on telling me don't me do nothing silly look after you, money, this and that you kind of think, okay, but they're not here to control what I've got hold of right now I can spend it on this, I can spend it on that.

[120] Like you just do things, like I said, things you never normally do.

[121] Like we're getting personal shoppers to come to the house and who do I think I am?

[122] Go to the shop and buy yourself.

[123] Stop if you want to do that.

[124] So it's like these kind of things.

[125] But yeah, I think it didn't come at me fast.

[126] I wouldn't say that.

[127] I'd say just like a surprise kind of thing.

[128] Like I said, I thought I'd made it.

[129] So whatever happens, I'm fine.

[130] I'm in the Premier League.

[131] What was the advice that you needed at that point that you didn't get?

[132] Like if you could go back now and have a chat with Ivan and say, listen, bro, you arrive at Newcastle that day and you get a chance to to say a couple of things to him, what do you say?

[133] I'll sit down and have a long chat with him.

[134] It would be a long chat.

[135] Now, I think I'd just say, like, this is where the hard work starts.

[136] It's not finished, you're not, you can't pull it on cruise control.

[137] You've got to go to extra gear.

[138] Like, yeah, I'm at a Premier League club, but I haven't played yet.

[139] I've not got continuous games under my belt to be saying, okay, am I primarily player now?

[140] So it's like, I'd say to, yeah, a younger Ivan or anybody.

[141] that's in that situation, going, doing such a big jump to say that's when the hard work started.

[142] Were you in cruise control, do you think?

[143] Yeah.

[144] If I even was moving, I'd probably put a handbrake on.

[145] Really?

[146] Yeah, I just thought, I'm Premier League now.

[147] As well, you've seen all the big boys, like, literally training there.

[148] It's like, yeah, I'm here now.

[149] And you played two games before they loaned you out.

[150] Yeah, I come off to break.

[151] bench twice against United and Chelsea.

[152] And then you went on quite a long loan spell.

[153] Barnsley, Shrews, Brie, Wiggins, Gunthorpe.

[154] When you find out you're getting loaned out, how do you receive that as a player?

[155] I've always wondered this.

[156] When you're a young player in the club, you're in the Premier League, because I think there's a lot about Manchester United as a big fan.

[157] We always loan out our young lads.

[158] And I wonder how that's positioned to you as a player and how you receive it.

[159] It's not the best feeling.

[160] because at the time it's kind of like well do you not want me here like I'm here now you want to send me away like yeah and you've got the personal shopper coming over exactly yeah yeah so I need to sort some things out to be you can't be in Shrewsbury yeah I don't be a trouble that far but now yeah I feel like like it's at that age you don't really think what you're going to know for I mean first team experience is this is probably the best at that age as well and like knowing like because I feel like no disrespect to youth team football is cool like tic -a -tacca pretty football and going to league one like I said on loan you're going to get bashed around so you need to be ready for that physical battle and I feel like going on loan definitely helped me looking back now it helped me a lot but at the time I was thinking I don't need to go on loan I'm ready to be playing in the Premier League but I'm going to be playing in the Premier I feel like from young, I've always had that that my dad always told me no matter where you are.

[161] If you have that mentality that you're a Premier League player, but at the moment you're just on League 1, that's fine.

[162] But if you don't have that mentality that I'm a Premier League player, so I don't need to try here, then it's not going to work out.

[163] So it doesn't matter where you are.

[164] If you have the mentality, I should be playing in the prim.

[165] But right now, I'm playing here.

[166] That's fine.

[167] And I feel like you go a long way to where I am now.

[168] I'm playing that bit of advice that my dad gave me was very key.

[169] When you went off on loan and they say, okay, you're leaving Newcastle now.

[170] Does that take you out of cruise control and into like, right, I've got something to prove again?

[171] It should.

[172] It should have.

[173] But it didn't really, because I always believed that no matter what happened where I went, I'm going back to Newcastle.

[174] So no matter if I played, didn't play at all, or played rubbish, and going back to Newcastle, back to the Premier League, but not knowing the effects that could have, or it did have in the end, even though I think all the clubs I went to, but I won, I left top goal scorer.

[175] But it was like, I could have, looking back, I feel like I could have went that extra step further.

[176] You had a good spell as well.

[177] scuntop United six goals and 15 appearances showed a huge promise while you're on your loan spells as a prolific goal scorer and then at 22 years old you transferred to Peterborough United after failing to secure a regular place at Newcastle now that that must have been an interesting moment because that's kind of like another knockback in it goes back to like the Leicester rejection and stuff that's like another step down you've made it to the prem and now you've got got to take a step down.

[178] Yeah, it was a massive.

[179] Not actually, I wouldn't say a massive not back.

[180] It wasn't a not back, but it was kind of like maybe a not back I needed at the time because, like, I remember sitting down my dad and my agent at the time and saying, listen, like, me and my dad are brutal, whoever we work with, we want the honest, honest truth.

[181] No matter if they say, We don't want him.

[182] He's not good enough for us.

[183] I'd rather my agent tell me that.

[184] But how the relationship was that the agent with my agent at the time, he kind of sugarcoat things.

[185] Right.

[186] So me and my dad kind of had to get out of him.

[187] What did the club say?

[188] Like, just tell us, be honest.

[189] And his words were the club don't think you're good enough already at this moment in time.

[190] So it's kind of like in my head, it was like, okay, fine, no problem.

[191] It's time for me to go elsewhere.

[192] Then regroup and restart.

[193] It wasn't like I was too.

[194] old.

[195] It was just a knock back and set back that.

[196] Like I said, at the time, probably needed to kickstart my journey again.

[197] Do you think Newcastle were right in saying that?

[198] Possibly.

[199] Like, don't get me wrong, Newcastle a great club.

[200] They had some, they've had some great players and doing very well at the moment.

[201] But I feel like I didn't really have a chance in the first team to prove if I was good enough.

[202] I feel personal.

[203] anyway.

[204] And to be fair, at the time was when Newcastle were fighting to stay up in the Premier League when Raffa Bernier's first coming.

[205] It was kind of understandable you wanted these players to try and keep them up.

[206] We wanted experience and stuff more than like to be given youth younger players a chance and stuff.

[207] Is that you're saying?

[208] Yeah, I feel like, I mean, you can't really put so much responsibility on youth players or younger players.

[209] players to keep you up in the Premier League is such a big ass but I feel like maybe the following season it was kind of like could he get a sniff and I think he kind of brought his own players and done his own thing which is that's football.

[210] So off you go to Peterborough, you're closer to your family at this point which helps.

[211] Closer.

[212] Yeah, I'm a mummy's boy at heart so I leave my mum around close.

[213] And did it change your attitude moving to Peterborough on like this whole cruise control thing yeah it did and especially when i went to first went to peterborough i wasn't playing like the first i'd say 10 games the strikers out in front of me was scoring every game assisting playing well but the manager at a time steve evans was just saying don't worry your chance will come and when your chance comes it's up to you to take it.

[214] And your chance came.

[215] Yeah.

[216] And you took it.

[217] Yeah, 100 % took it.

[218] You scored 24 goals in 32 League 1 games at Peterborough, which is insane.

[219] Yeah, like, yeah, like the competitions all over the field, but especially as a striker, you need to, your job to score goals.

[220] And especially when the other two are scoring goals, if you get at one sniff and you don't score, you're back out again.

[221] And it gives him another opportunity.

[222] The director of football at Peterborough said you were an incredibly hard worker.

[223] He also said you were their best defender because you headed away nine out of ten corners.

[224] I feel like, yeah, them games, I kind of had a magnet on my head that was just bringing the ball towards me. But yeah, and I think the hard work as well, like, when I'm loved by a manager, I feel like, and a club, I feel like it's in me to want to give back.

[225] I want to do a lot of things for.

[226] like run for a brick wall for the manager that's wanting me in this position did they become like proxy father figures to you in that regard?

[227] Because you're clearly a man that's close to your father do they kind of, you know, you see what I'm saying?

[228] Is that, is it a similar relationship like a where you want to do them proud?

[229] Yeah, 100%.

[230] Especially when I signed, like with when I first signed a piece where with Steve Evans like the first time he spoke to me it was like a friend like a normal chat even though you got the respect as a manager but he was saying, listen, I want you to come in school goals and go higher.

[231] Like, the goals you score for us benefits you and us because we're going to go higher and you're going to go higher.

[232] So it's a win -win.

[233] And I think him putting an arm around me at that time knowing I've come from a Premier League club and saying it's not really a knockback.

[234] This is where you start your journey again.

[235] Having that, I think, definitely help me. And didn't you have, I read somewhere that you had a agreement with them, like a verbal agreement, that if a bigger club came knocking, they wouldn't stand in your way, Peterborough.

[236] That probably was a verbal agreement, but if anybody knows the Peterborough staff and the owners, then they probably have different ideas.

[237] But I mean, yeah, I guess when I did go, that was the right timing.

[238] Every player thinks when there's a move on the car, you want to try and rush it through and if things aren't right, they're not right for a reason like you can't rush good things good things aren't rushed I think at the time there was a chance I could have went to somewhere I was trying to rush it through and it was like don't worry I really so there was offers from other clubs there was offers from other clubs yeah but big clubs?

[239] Biggish at the time okay like championship clubs yeah championship clubs and he was saying just just be patient you're gonna get a better club and I'm just there like not kicking my not throwing my toys out of the front I'm just to be like, wow, there's just a chance I moved out.

[240] Who used to know what can happen, blah, blah, blah.

[241] And then I ended up staying and I went to Brentford, which was probably the best choice in the end.

[242] And around this time, I mean, just before then, 21 years old, you become a father for the first time.

[243] Yeah.

[244] I mean, that's as well what helps me kickstart my journey as well because I feel like I've got people to provide for.

[245] I have expensive taste as well so it's either choosing my expensive taste or my family so if I could school goals and help both then it's perfect so I think that's what helped me pick things up and how to provide for people does that focus you because I'm not a dad yet but it's around the corner for me I'm sure does that focus your priorities in a sense like does it make because I speak to my mates who have all about had kids and they almost describe that moment when their baby first comes they kind of see the world differently and their like responsibilities differently and stuff 100 % 100 % like you can't do the things you normally do you have to think baby first in all aspects Did it make your game better?

[246] 100, yeah Yeah, 100 % definitely how it's like I want to make him proud so when he's older that's my dad he's done this he's doing this this is this so it's kind of like a pride thing as well as wanting to do well for my family and have a better, better lifestyle for everybody, not just me and my people I provide for.

[247] When do you find out that Brentford are interested?

[248] It was actually training at St George's Park.

[249] Yeah.

[250] With Peterborough.

[251] And I was talks of going here, there.

[252] I was kind of like, I'm going to know him.

[253] Just like, yeah, when it's something concrete, then let me know right now i just want to focus on training hard because it's easy to be led astray when this club's interest in you this club's interest yet you hear loads of things but then nothing's concrete like it's all well and good these are looking at you these are looking at you but these time i'm not a kid no more when they want me and put a bidding then we can start talking whereas hearing they're interested what does that mean that doesn't mean nothing like everybody can be interested but nobody wants you so when Brentford come along and I was interested and actually put a bid in and it was like okay I spoke to the manager he kind of it was straightforward and said you're going to come in and be the main man we want you to be starting every game and score goals and do your job then either take us up or go to a higher club so you get that call from Brentford they put a bid in you speak to the manager, Thomas Frank?

[254] Yes.

[255] And Thomas says, listen, you're going to be on number one.

[256] I think it was a no -brainer.

[257] I think I did speak to other clubs.

[258] What other clubs?

[259] Actually, I went up to Rangers.

[260] Oh, nice.

[261] Spoke with the manager there, which is Stephen Gerard at the time.

[262] And...

[263] Manchester United, did you speak to...

[264] Yeah, they said I wasn't good enough.

[265] I was going to say.

[266] I was fucking called right now.

[267] No, no, play.

[268] No, yeah, I went to, I went to Rangers.

[269] We spoke a bit, but then they said it was like two, I think that was two strikers at the time.

[270] And then I was looking to get another one in.

[271] So it would have been like four strikers, I think.

[272] And I think the formation they play is majority of the time, one striker at top.

[273] So you would have been like third choice or something?

[274] Yeah, something like this.

[275] But, and then we went to Celtic.

[276] We spoke to Celtic and I think it was like the same there.

[277] I'm one of three strikers or something.

[278] like this and I think at the time of when it was I was moving I wanted to be like the main guy like I think the crucial thing for me is playing games even though I back myself on competing with other strikers but I want to be know that when I go in but first first through the door on the main man up front and it's up to me to keep my position I feel like when I went to when I spoke to the manager at Brentford he pretty much said you're the main guy and i don't see nobody taking your spot so you make sure you produce producer goods and it's yours really you've worked a lot of clubs um you've played at a lot of different clubs brentford are special they're really really special because they are based on their resources they are objectively overachieving in a really really significant way um what is it about Brentford from your experience that is making what is that magic that they have hard work plain simple hard work like we're not the best technically gifted team we have some magicians in the team but other than that it's just hard work i mean and we fear nobody we respect them we don't fear them so when we go to the let's say umfield away or chelsea away or these kind of games we know they're probably on paper better than us got some big names and this and that but at the end of the day the main thing that wins games is hard work and a little bit of quality I guess putting the wall in the back of the net and I feel like throughout the club everybody knows what the manager wants you have to you have to be willing to run for your teammate post your left plus your right and the fans and everybody and everybody knows the responsibility they have on their shoulders when they step onto the pitch.

[279] So I think that's probably what's brought us to where and how well we're doing at the moment.

[280] And even like at the moment, the team playing without me I hear and people say, oh, I reckon Brentford's going to be like this.

[281] Now you're not playing this and that.

[282] And I'm thinking, no, they're not going to struggle because they work hard.

[283] And when you work hard, you give yourself the best chance of winning a game.

[284] and I know deep down Brentford would be fine with or without me well you've played a lot of clubs right so you can kind of compare and contrast is there anything else other than just that work ethic that you've noticed is just different at Brentford so you've got super hard work is there anything else their approach to things or the strategy or the way that they I feel like together in this as well how everybody's like everybody talks to everyone that I've been at clubs where it's like a certain group sit there certain groups sit there like everybody divided it's like it's not that at brentford everybody mixes with everybody you've got people of Spanish Danish which is majority of the club at the moment English and everything and everybody just mixes together so it's not like oh let me where my friends where should I sit down at lunch you just get your lunch sit down here and you talk with whoever and the manager that comes from him I feel like he makes sure the togetherness and the humbleness like there's no nobody at the club thinks they're better than nobody like even last season I scored 20 goals I wasn't the better nobody I was the same the person that doesn't really play too much they're not less of a person than me we're all the same we're all in it together so I feel like that comes from the manager and his philosophy at the club and how he wants things to be run what are the things that you often think with managers and CEOs and stuff like there's they have their like core principles which you just get bored of hearing because they say over and over and over and over again what are those things that he just repeats over and over and over again togetherness yeah humble yeah and attitude and i guess he polices that pretty yeah all the time it's all over the club it's all in the meetings which is probably why like i said we do we're doing so well as a club and as a whole, whole unit.

[285] What's the, what's the dressing room, the training ground dressing room culture like?

[286] Can I ask this because I've spoken to so many players at United in particular, and especially in the third years, they always talk about the like, the self -policing culture in the dressing room, you know, like, what's that like, versus other clubs?

[287] Yeah, it's, like I said, yeah, it's good.

[288] There's other clubs I've been out as, it's been good as well, but not how it is in Brentford.

[289] I feel like Brentford is probably one of the best dressings I've been in in terms of everybody knows their drill.

[290] Everyone knows their position.

[291] Everybody's helping others.

[292] Everybody's just like the respective something's on the floor.

[293] Tidy pick up, pull it in there.

[294] Like them kind of things is key if you want to be achieving something big.

[295] And I feel like with that in the change room, as well as in the gym or in the dinner hall is key and everybody's up for everybody it's like one big family unit 26 years old you're named brentford's player of the season um you scored 12 goals in the first premier league season and then you scored 20 goals in your second premier league season finishing third in the golden beat rankings behind harland and harry cane that's big yeah sometimes i don't really realize how big it is because sometimes i'm at home i'm thinking yeah but i'm not first in my head if you're not first you'll last then like my family say look who you're behind and look at the caliber of players that are playing in the primary league and you've scored more than these guys i'm always thinking yeah but i could have scored more and you think you could score more than harland what you got something it's like 30 something, 36.

[296] I mean, not.

[297] I mean, not more, but I look back on chances that should have been a goal.

[298] And I feel like there probably is like 15, 16 chances that I probably could have scored or should have scored.

[299] So if I was as clinical as Harland was, not to say I'll beat him, but I could be a lot higher than, a lot higher than 20.

[300] England.

[301] England's football team.

[302] Sorry, I think I saw a post on your Instagram a couple of weeks ago about that being a huge dream for you to play for England.

[303] Yeah.

[304] I think everybody wants to play for England.

[305] Yeah, when I was a kid just kicking the ball at the shed.

[306] I remember just screaming, like, Gerard's name and Lampard's name, like when they're on the field, just kicking and, like you said, when that opportunity was around and I was in talks of it, it just didn't feel real from being Ivan from the fountain just playing out of the front getting bashed around by the older lot to actually having a chance to play for England was something I would never have tempted of.

[307] You missed out on the Final World Cup squad lots of circulating rumours about why what do you know why?

[308] I guess I guess it comes down to the allegations on the betting scandal but I feel like personally I felt like it was a bit of a questionable time when they decided to bring it all out and then when they actually dealt with the situation come the end of the season it's kind of like how would you bring out then to I then punish me at the end of the season so they brought it so you I guess you're saying that you suspect they brought it out at that time to prevent you going to play for England?

[309] I assume so I'm to make it a bigger story.

[310] Ah, okay.

[311] Personally, anyway, I don't know if it's true.

[312] Like, how not to know what's behind the scenes, but I feel like if you have somebody go into the World Cup, that's supposed to be betting, then it's kind of like a bigger story.

[313] What's the, I'm not very clued up on this whole FA thing.

[314] So the FA, the England team play under the FA.

[315] yeah and the FA are also the sort of body that brought the charges against you yeah so they so one might assume that they release the charges at that point because if they didn't then there might be some ramifications on the england team or the perceptions of the england team or something yeah i assume so right like i'm not too aware of all this stuff but i feel like it was a bit of a coincidence when they decided to bring it all out and then having to be dealt with the punishment at the end of the season so far after it's kind of like I mean you know well I feel like yes I'm bad now but the biggest punishment for me was missing out on playing at the World Cup personally I felt more hurt and what's the word kind of like yeah I just felt I felt down around the time felt like somebody's out to get me at that time to stop me from playing for England.

[316] In my head, like, that's just how I seen it at the time.

[317] It's like, they want to punish me for this, missing out on England.

[318] The World Cup, like, everybody's dream to be playing at the World Cup.

[319] And then further down the line, banned me as well.

[320] It's kind of like a double hit, I feel, in a sense, whereas, like I said, if he was going to do, if he's going to stop me from going to, in the World Cup, do it there and then and deal with it.

[321] It's deal with the whole situation.

[322] Rather than doing that, missing out in the World Cup and then let me play the rest of the season.

[323] And then banning me after the season, it doesn't add up in my head, to be fair, anyway.

[324] When you saw I felt down about it, what does that mean in real terms if I was a fly on the wall in your life when that information came in?

[325] That was probably my, excuse me, that was probably like the lowest point.

[326] I was like, with me i never show nothing i don't show emotion too tough but i think that was probably the lowest point i felt like he'd asked me about it was uh yeah he's what is but that it is what is it's kind of like i don't want to talk about it yeah damn it hurt it did hurt do you cry no i don't feel like crying solves anything personally that's my personal views everybody says to me need to show emotion you can cry isn't it's okay but like I feel like I've only cried once when I see my nan cry from losing my pap and seeing her heart as much as she was killed me inside and then it was kind of like I didn't cry but it was like tears in my eyes coming down and it was kind of like it was painful do you express how you're feeling to anyone in your life at that point to your partner to your family your mom your dad when you when you find out that you're not going to play for england and they've sort of you know the rumors are out about this gambling situation do you tell anyone how you're actually feeling um no but people that know me know my actions and how that leads to how i'm feeling like i'd be a lot more like snappy about things or i'd just be like like i can just be like there and someone be talking to me and It's not like really registering, but my head's not really in the room kind of thing.

[327] And that people that know me know, like, something's up.

[328] Something's wrong.

[329] What was the reality of the situation?

[330] What was going on inside your head?

[331] And how was it, when you say down and you say that was the lowest point, how, what does that mean in real terms?

[332] Um, I wouldn't say depressed as such, but it was.

[333] kind of like not far off that if anything towards that direction but not completely because like like still how I stay in my head is like next opportunity next next next day another day is another day to put things right and try and be as positive as I can have you ever had anxiety probably but how I am I don't let it get to me as much like I'd say the loan spells when I'm on loan I'm in a ruin on my own there's been times I've just literally sat there without the TV and just sat there and just like chilling and just look into thin air and just thinking about things but I'd never like I said I'd never like let nobody know how I'm feeling because how I am as a person I feel like it eats away at me but I'm just always a smiley always like I ask people at Brentford now I'm the joking, I'm making sure everyone's fine these kind of things I think that's my kind of way of beating my emotions if I see this person happy or me doing that then it kind of brings me up to make me happy kind of thing did you not speak to anyone like a professional about this stuff because I always think when we bottle up our emotions it's not like they go away it's almost like they eat us up from inside and they come out in other ways like you were saying snappiness or whatever or you know surely there's someone around you that said you need to see someone yeah that was but as well me being stubborn it's kind of like nah I'm fine it's fine like I'll be right tomorrow I'll be right later I'll be right next week I feel like I can speak to anybody in my family but like my stubborn is just don't allow me to I think a lot of of men can relate to that you know yeah 100 % i feel like i do need to get better at that personally in may 26th uh you did a famous tweet do you know the tweet i'm talking about yeah i'll speak soon with no filter you ready to speak um and what did that tweet mean that was just speak on everything really but obviously when i done that it went crazy and then my family just said listen you don't need to talk just when you get on a pitch let your feet do the talking what's it damage is done you can't talk and it's not going to help no situation if anything could not damage my reputation or my career but just make people think not that I care what people think is just could put in a works that who do you think is that kind of thing but it doesn't benefit no parties what headspace were you in when you tweeted that probably a reckless one really yeah how are you feeling thinking I don't care attitude I'd say kind of a defence mechanism against pretty much yeah against everybody like even like little things like for the whole situation not like my friends my friends my friends when I stick with they're the people I chill with all the time but it's even like when I goes I don't know if it's just me thinking certain things but it's like when I go certain places like maybe some people don't want to be associated with me in a certain way of obviously because of media kind of thing and it's kind of like not killing their image but it's kind of like between this guy he's a match fixer he's match fixing football and like even like I remember at the time when there was allegations I wanted to go into a restaurant and I was like no you can't uh we're we're not taking you the restaurant a restaurant i was like what do you mean as our because the allegations we're not allowing you in or something like this i was actually so confused i was thinking for starters it's allegations and second of your restaurant how can you not let someone in due to bad press that's what they call it bad press i was just baffled and even to like my car insurance they wouldn't insure me due to the whole scandal and I was just like a car insurance they don't want me on their books because which was baffling I read through the the whole FA report many many pages I think it was like 25 on pages I have it here just to understand the case better just so I made sure I didn't make any errors in my observations but there's no I think there's actually a line in there where the commission say they didn't believe you were doing any match fixing.

[334] It was far from match fixing.

[335] Yeah I wrote that down in my notes that they concluded that you hadn't been match fixing or anything like that in their report so that that allegation from whoever said that the restaurant or whatever doesn't seem to have a basis in the report at all and I'm sure there was certain articles on saying match fixing as well which is that's probably the media for you making it a big talking point when the FA first contact you and and they ask they make a request for information don't they so they want to know more information this is dating back to 2022 I believe when you get that first contact how does that feel like your dad or your agent must have told you that the FA have been in touch well they want information from as far back as 2000 15.

[336] So it was kind of like, I haven't got that phone that I had back then to give you information.

[337] But I wanted to cooperate how I can to let you investigate what you want to investigate.

[338] And when I was, when I, the club actually pulled me into a room and they spoke to me and said, they're favoured in touch with you match fixing, this and that.

[339] They want to speak to you.

[340] And I said, okay.

[341] This is Brentford.

[342] this is Brentford yeah i said okay no problem like then he was like have you done any bets whilst you've been at brentford and have you been betting on football and i was like no i haven't i haven't done no bets that are fixing fixing football like it's like okay well the if they want to speak to you don't delete nothing on your phone because there's a system they said they can get back old messages or Whatever they said, I said, no problem.

[343] I'm not deleting nothing if they can go through what they want to go through.

[344] And then they called you in for an interview in May 22.

[345] Yeah.

[346] And they asked you all these questions again about what you've been involved in with betting, etc. Yeah.

[347] And they asked me, some things that happened like seven, eight years ago, and to the top of my head.

[348] So much information for me at one time, it's kind of like, actually can't remember i can't remember and i think i was in there for like what five hours five hours yeah but at that time you you maintained to them that you're not better on football yeah and i was i wasn't aware what what that was trying to get at you acknowledge later on that you you basically lied in that meeting with the f a i didn't lie i just couldn't really remember what they was asking for at the time i couldn't remember until they brought some things in front of me And it was kind of like, okay, he's talking about my memory.

[349] And we, like I said, I cooperated with everything they wanted to do.

[350] And we kind of spoke on it.

[351] And then I told them the truth about everything.

[352] One of the things people might find surprising is they asked for your, they asked for your mobile phones and stuff.

[353] And then they like image your mobile phones to check, like, all the messages you've sent to people going back a long time on these phones to find out everything you've been said.

[354] And also, as you said, they ask you not to delete any messages, which you didn't from what the, commission said um but how does that feel when the f a ask for your mobile phone and they you know they're going to scan it for everything it doesn't feel yeah it's just kind of like it's your privacy and they're like invading it it's kind of like i've got something pitch on there i won't want them to see like these kind of things so it's pretty much like you have to go with what they're saying otherwise i feel like i think the you get a longer ban for not cooperating or something like this so what can I do you want to take my phone take my phone and all your bank statements as well they also thought your bank statements which you handed over as well you handed over I believe multiple phones no just the one phone oh just the one phone they said there was another phone but there wasn't that was the one phone I had and then eventually you admit to 232 breaches of their rules and the FA rule E8 which is betting over five seasons from 20th of February 2017 to betting up until January 21.

[355] Yes, I believe so.

[356] And like I said, there was people saying I was match fixing, but none of it was match fixing.

[357] It was just, like I said before, I was betting on myself to school first from, I think this was a while back.

[358] And it's kind of like, that's not like, I'm not.

[359] trying to do, not trying, I'm still trying to do the right thing.

[360] It's not like I'm smashing someone and getting a yellow card here, there and everywhere.

[361] Yeah, and the report actually does say that.

[362] It says that you weren't, you weren't, you weren't, you weren't, the commission said that you weren't match fixing, which is a completely different, completely different thing.

[363] They're making bets on like games that you're, either you're playing and betting on yourself to score or betting on the team when you're not in the team, which is what, from what I read, which is what, what happened.

[364] Gambling and generally, when did that start in your life?

[365] When did you start?

[366] When did you start?

[367] first gambling um i think it's just kind of like as you're young it's like a little flutter they call it like you're in like the fair arcade kind of thing just trying to win a little change or something or these kind of things so i'd say like around 15 if yeah 15 as such and it and it got progressively worse or more intense yeah i'd say the more money you get the more the higher the state's go it's kind of like oh if I lose this is fine this is coming next month was did you not realize you know throughout those sort of five years when you were batting a lot 232 breaches that your relationship with bedding was unhealthy I think on the on the 200 and was it 32 breaches like there was there was some bets in there that like I don't recall making but I was willing to take responsibility just to get the process all over done with because having that hovering over me and trying to concentrate my career is not is not the best feeling far from the best feeling and i don't well to finish on 20 goals with that hanging over me but in terms of thinking do you have a problem it's kind of like you don't think of if i lose this this is going to happen so it's like uh once i won this this this this can happen that you never think of the negatives you'd always think of the positive and being on the money I was on which I thought was a lot of the time and it's kind of like it's fine I'll get there in the back end of the month oh that's coming back this and this month oh he owes me this is fine what impact was it having on your life betting um I feel like it was just the impact it would have it was just waiting for payday right like the amount what happens through the month if you went for payday but you could spend your wage and then wait for payday spend your wage wait for pay day yeah but I'd pay and sort of everything I need to pay for first and then it's like I got this to play with do that it's fine payday will come soon so it wasn't it wasn't like spend this money I should be given here or paying on this you took care of your I took care of what needs to be care of and in my head it's kind of like my money is my money but I couldn't spend it how I want to and yeah pretty much like that I've made my money it's up to me I want to spend it one of the things that was quite surprising is bets against bets for your team to lose when you weren't playing in the team you knew betting was wrong right like you knew that as a footballer you weren't allowed to bet my knowledge of my knowledge of betting on football that I don't think I recall once somebody coming and just giving When I talk on their experience betting, not you can't bet on football.

[368] So it wasn't like, I shouldn't be better on this, shouldn't be better on that.

[369] And I feel like I think the bets that were on my team to lose when I'm not playing, I think a few of the majority of those were within the bets that I know.

[370] But personally, I think I didn't do, but I still took responsibility of them, for them.

[371] so the whole process could get cleared up.

[372] And you don't know about some of these bets you're saying because you did them through somebody else.

[373] Yeah.

[374] And you did them through somebody else because you knew you weren't allowed to, right?

[375] It wasn't through that I knew I wasn't allowed to.

[376] It was that I didn't want my parents seeing what I'm doing my money.

[377] This was a point of contention in the documents.

[378] The FAA said, you know, he's betting through somebody because he didn't want the FAA to find out.

[379] You're saying you bet through.

[380] somebody else because your parents the mail was going to their house and you didn't want them opening up the post and seeing it.

[381] Yeah, that's right.

[382] That was a point in the, I mean, the commission go their own way on that.

[383] And then, okay, so moving on from that, there's all these aggravating factors in the document.

[384] Was he aware of the rules?

[385] I think you eventually admitted that you were aware of the rules in terms of not being able to bet on football.

[386] going back to the days I think at Northampton I think was it Northampton one of your previous chair I think your previous chairman at the football club was thrown out because of a betting scandal and then you have a relative in your life that was also issued with a breach of the FA rules for betting in 2007 as well so the commission concluded that you were aware of the rules and that you couldn't bet but you sort of counteract that by saying you didn't have I think it was it was kind of a grey area right Like, I think there was a time where, like I said, the clubs I've been at, they were at, like, beginning of every season, I feel like they'd have somebody come in, but not actually tell you what you can on, what you can't bet on.

[387] What would that person say?

[388] Just like broads.

[389] Just his experiences on betting.

[390] Like, he'd come in and say, this is me betting, this is, uh, and then I've lost this much.

[391] I've come through this.

[392] So, when, if you think about betting, don't do it.

[393] So it wasn't like, you can't be betting on football.

[394] or you can't be betting on yeah you can't be betting on football it was just his experiences of going through a gambling stage so you didn't know you couldn't bet as a player no I think it was a grey area something like you'd hear you can you hit it you can't and then there's certain things you say you can't bet on like with me personally I feel like it was a grey area and you admitted in the second aggravating factor is about knowing whether you basically admitting to whether you were betting or not and in the interview with the commission, during the process, you said that you had lied earlier on by saying, I don't bet on football in an earlier interview.

[395] But, you know, that was one of the first interviews you had and you had responded, I don't bet on football.

[396] And that was an accurate.

[397] Yeah, that was when, obviously, they threw everything up me. I thought if I was just denied it, then it's all fine.

[398] They wouldn't find nothing, but then...

[399] Obviously, they'd take your phones in everything.

[400] Yeah, then everything went through and then...

[401] Yeah, I admitted to...

[402] admit to what I've done.

[403] In the FA, the fourth aggregating fact was whether the player sought to conceal his identity when he set up his own betting account in 2017.

[404] The commission didn't accept the FA's submission there.

[405] They didn't believe that you'd concealed it in that regard.

[406] Whether the player deleted messages issue number five, commission concluded that there wasn't evidence that you'd deleted any messages.

[407] I was accused of delete messages, yeah, that's right.

[408] Yeah, by the FA, but the commission said that they didn't have substantial.

[409] evidence for that yeah um kind of the same was told not to and you didn't delete nothing from the club the commission couldn't find any evidence that you had deleted anything so um and then the the phone issue we've talked about already the last issue was around whether you had a gambling addiction and they brought out a psychologist called dr philip hopley who looked at you did interviews with you um he's a highly qualified and experienced psychiatric expert according to the commission and he interviewed you on two occasions and he formed a clear opinion that you had a gambling addiction and accordingly the commission accepted the findings of the doctor on this issue and that's part of the reason that you were given a more lenient sentence because Dr. Hopley said that you had an impulsive compulsive disorder yeah was that the first time you'd heard of gambling addiction yeah through this process is tribunal yeah because I feel like it wouldn't be in me to bring myself forward to speak to one of these people to see if I did have one.

[410] So it's kind of like, like I said, my stubbornness comes into play on this one.

[411] It's kind of like, no, I'm fine, I can stop when I want to stop.

[412] What, did he explain, did someone explain to you what a gambling addiction is since then?

[413] A little bit, yeah.

[414] We did speak with us heartily on the round.

[415] around one addiction is but it's kind of like you don't allow yourself to believe it like i feel like if you want to stop doing something i feel like people think in the head i can stop for wanting but not knowing deep down you probably can't could you have stopped probably yeah it's i feel like it's 50 -50 you could you could could have stopped but I feel like the thrill on it is kind of like what keeps you going because the FA that sort of counterpoint to that was that there was periods where you you didn't you didn't gamble so they were they were saying that to the commission that you know it's not gambling addiction because there's parts of his journey where he's not gambling or he's betting on other things for example um do you still gamble now no anything no any betting at all across any not has that required therapy or any sort of professional support i think it's kind of being in the public eye if i was like going into these places and these kind of things i think it's more the embarrassment that is still continuing like this kind of thing so i i wouldn't allow myself and like you look back you i think i think like you sit, take a back seat and look at all the money you've lost and what he could have went on and what, and especially now having people to provide for, it's kind of like, you can't be spending that money on this.

[416] It can go to here or, like, just manage your money better, how I look at things and how I look at me. I see that as being naive.

[417] We don't really get much information, do we, growing up about gambling?

[418] well really how to spend our money or tax especially i think about you guys as like young you know 20 year olds that i just you know playing football and then you become millionaires because you're good at it's kind of different for like my pursuit because i'm building a business you have cfos you have finance people around you have controls budgets forecast PNLs all this stuff so you know you're surrounded by like money minds and brains around you when you're building a business but being a young 20 year old millionaire who I'm presuming nobody gave you financial education No it's kind of like you said Yeah being having that much money At tender age it's kind of like What's I do with it And I'm not a family that comes from money So it's not like my parents could Help me a lot with that But they would have their say on certain things But it's like You kind of have to Try and just manage it yourself And just assumed doing this is the right thing.

[419] You don't know what you don't know?

[420] Pretty much.

[421] The bit of this case that I was, I was, I found difficult is that using someone else to do the bets.

[422] Because for me that's, that points to like, in that he did know, I think that's what people would think that look at that and going out.

[423] Of course, 100%.

[424] Conceal it.

[425] Because I'm thinking, your mum and dad ain't open your post at 27 years old.

[426] Like, my mum ain't going to open my post.

[427] No, this was when I was away.

[428] Oh, you were young, but you were like 20, Yeah, so I know my post did go to my parents and I feel like, of course, your parents want to be knowing what's going on if you're getting this letter through that you're not paying this or like I said, seeing what you're spending your money on and I feel like, because we're a tight family, my one would worry about that.

[429] And there was actually times where she's opened it and she's kind of said some things about it.

[430] And the FA had highlighted the text message you'd sent where you'd said to your mate, I can't have that one in my name.

[431] What was the app I gambled on on your phone this time from text messages that they'd found?

[432] That's the bit that I struggled with was I was like, I wasn't sure there.

[433] But this chapter of your life has clearly been a big learning moment.

[434] 100 % like looking back on what I've done.

[435] Well, I changed some bits probably, but it is what it is.

[436] And the manner I am now continuing forward is kind of, but it is different to what I was before.

[437] Do you take, like, when we think about responsibility for our actions, what, what, what responsibility do you take for all of this?

[438] Where you say, listen, this is, this is what I take responsibility for here.

[439] And this is also, like, going back to a question I asked earlier about, like, what do you wish someone had said to you when you first did that, I don't know, those, those bets five, six, seven years ago.

[440] What's the responsibility you take?

[441] And what's the, what's the lesson you've taken from this process?

[442] I think the responsibility I take was, yeah, I was betting on myself to score first, which now you, I know you shouldn't be doing, which I take responsibility and I'll take full responsibility for the punishment I'm getting now.

[443] So it would be kind of a like, and what I tell my younger self, but around them kind of times, it's like manage your money, but I don't get mixed in the wrong crowd, I say, and just don't follow fashion.

[444] have your own mind frame on what you should and shouldn't be doing or if you don't know look more into it and if that's what you really want to do look more into it and what you can and can and can and can and can't do it's interesting because when they were deliberating your your punishment one of the things that came to mind is perception and what it would make what the perception it would send to the rest of the game um do you think they they made an example of you?

[445] I feel so, yeah.

[446] Do you think that's right?

[447] I don't think it's right now, but...

[448] Because you're a high profile Premier League player.

[449] Obviously, if you get away with doing something like this, this could other players, lower levels could also emulate it, so they've got an opportunity here to send a message.

[450] 100%.

[451] 100%.

[452] And I feel like a lot of people think that in terms of, if I know disrespect to lower leagues, but if I was...

[453] We actually did look at some cases that was...

[454] some were similar, some were worse and their punishment wasn't like how mine is I think the fact that's the opportunity of the fact that I'm playing in the Premier League doing well sniff around England it's kind of like right, there's our chance to punish him and then people know this is kind of the punishment you're looking at if you want to do what I don't it's funny because I was actually surprised to read that in the analysis section of this document where it says the perception of the impact of football betting on the integrity of the game is a key consideration when deciding on your sanction, which does kind of suggest that they're quite intentional in making sure that they make an example of you.

[455] There are thereabouts in their words.

[456] And obviously you have a huge position of influence, so that's key.

[457] And then they submit that the FAA suggested that you get 12 months ban as a suspension, I believe, and that was their final sanction the commission didn't accept that ordinarily the commission would have imposed 15 months suspension had you not pled guilty to the charges which lowered your sanction and then also you got another reduction in the sanction because of the findings from the doctor who found that you had a gambling addiction which brought your sentence down to eight months and you'll fine 50 ,000 pounds it's interesting because you know I'm a huge football football fans.

[458] I want to see you play.

[459] And you're on such a role.

[460] Brentford are on such a role.

[461] So, like, as a football fan, although you smashed United last year, like, it's so, it's so good to see like a young, black, English striker tearing up the game at its peak.

[462] It's gutting to see you out of the game.

[463] It is.

[464] And I feel like, like, how I am and how people know how I stay.

[465] This is, this is nothing.

[466] I know for a fact I'll come back stronger than this.

[467] I'm better than I was before.

[468] Like, this gives me the hunger again to recharge and come back on another level.

[469] Like, like I said before earlier, no time to dwell on things.

[470] No time to dwell on things.

[471] And it's like, just when that first game comes and I can play, then it's not a ballgame.

[472] It's on.

[473] When you found out you, you've suspended for eight months.

[474] How did that feel?

[475] What's that like?

[476] Because you know you're in the peak of your powers right now, right?

[477] Yeah, I know.

[478] It's painful, but I feel like the hard part is kind of now.

[479] Because right now I'll be playing football matches.

[480] And I kind of be around the players and the football ground and things like this.

[481] And it's kind of like, okay, that's what you want to do, punish me from there.

[482] But I feel like keep me away from the ground.

[483] If I wasn't as strong as I was in my head, that would break some people and we talk about mental health and all these kind of things and what's that kind of doing to a player that's not allowed in the environment even though you can't play games but keeping away from the training ground knowing football's their life and that's all they've done from such a young age how is that going to help them at all yeah this is I completely agree with you I think I think the sanction itself is important because it does send a message and I agree with that.

[484] But the bit that I just struggle with is that can't train at the club.

[485] And we know, as you point out there, like, mental health, keeping active is such an important thing, especially if you've been playing football since you're a kid.

[486] And it's your purpose.

[487] It's what you know.

[488] So psychologically and physically, there's a real strong case to keep your active.

[489] And I've seen a lot of people have their say on this.

[490] A lot of people think, you know, you could have trained at the ground and then use that time to educate young players on gambling.

[491] That would have been useful but to keep you out of the club not allow you to train and to kind of push you out on your own it seems doesn't feel like it's smart it isn't it doesn't add up with what like the things they push forward like we say the whole football community's on big on mental health then the f a go and do this and like pushed me away from like my the whole football environment like by all means it's not a place where I want people to feel sorry for me like that's the last thing that's the last thing I want and me as a person people that know me would know that's not what one thing I'm trying to achieve but savatsas what is somebody that's not as strong as me in their head happens to be going through this kind of situation and their punishment is they're not allowed at the training ground like that would break them like right now being not being around the training ground it does hurt me, but I just know when I'm at the training ground, train harder, be ready for the game when I can play.

[492] But it's, yeah, like I said, it's not a nice feeling and the whole purpose of not being allowed at the training ground is, it's baffling to me. Do you have hard days still?

[493] Yeah.

[494] Yeah, yeah.

[495] I feel like everybody has hard days.

[496] I mean, like, through this process, has there been days where, like, you're ups and your downs and difficult days where you start.

[497] you have low moments because you are away from football, the press is on top of you.

[498] Yeah, I feel like I have a hard hours, hard two hours kind of thing.

[499] Like in the mornings, I'd wake up, be like, can't be asked today.

[500] But getting a shower, get active.

[501] When you're there working, it's kind of like out your head.

[502] As much you don't want to do it, you'll see in a long run that time.

[503] I didn't want to get up.

[504] I didn't want to put the work in.

[505] It's paying off now.

[506] Whereas if I'm saying, ah, tomorrow.

[507] And then tomorrow comes, I'll do it the next day.

[508] So you're still training?

[509] Yeah, I'm just, yeah, still keeping fit.

[510] Still doing my own thing.

[511] Working with a personal trainer.

[512] Yeah, personal trainer, which is, which is good.

[513] And it's not like a lenient one.

[514] It's one that pushes me. So I feel like I'm not got it good, but I've got the best people around me to, keep me fit and keep me going and like I said my family is key my family is the one that's whether they're the people that's helping me going as well and especially my children you're you're a mummy's boy yeah sometimes in these moments it's it's difficult for us but it's harder to watch the impact has on our family right yeah 100 % I feel like like even when the whole thing was it was like those allegations and the people like going into my mom's work and just saying certain things.

[515] And I'd be at a petrol station, they'd scream certain things and I'd be with my family and my children.

[516] And people would just be like shouting dumb things out.

[517] Just like, oh, you're putting it like shouting things like out.

[518] You're putting the tenure on today's game or these kind of things or just silly immature things.

[519] And how I am, I'm kind of hot -headed.

[520] But especially when family are involved and my children around, it's kind of like it's hard for me not to want to say something called, do something called these kind of things.

[521] It's like going through that period, it's hard.

[522] And people that you wouldn't normally speak to or my parents or family wouldn't normally speak to, they'd pop up and just be like, ah, something with Ivan.

[523] So it's when the bad things come along, now you want to talk and find out what's going on.

[524] whereas when I'm scoring goals or getting picked for England you don't really want to say too much but that's life and that's how people are and we don't miss them we see them we see the evil life so it's has this process been has it illuminated things for you in certain areas of your life certain people and some people that are there for you and stand you know because even thinking about the gaffer Thomas Frank he's come to your defence multiple times talking about how he disagrees with the way that it's been handled the sanctions and he thinks that you should be able to train with the team and be out there educating young kids, et cetera, et cetera.

[525] He disagrees with the decision that the commission made.

[526] Not just to him, Gariff Southgate as well.

[527] Garrette, yeah.

[528] He did talk sport.

[529] Yeah, yeah, I know.

[530] I spoke to him as well.

[531] How does that feel, Lynn?

[532] What does that mean to you?

[533] It feels good, no, and I've got them behind me, obviously the England manager and my club manager backing me 100%.

[534] It feels good and it gives me a bit of extra strength to make sure when I'm back, I'm firing.

[535] And it gives me that bit of hunger.

[536] Not that I'm lacking it, but I feel like the extra boost to feel like, okay, it's when I'm back kind of thing.

[537] And the club's standing by you in such a way, has that kind of cemented your loyalty a little?

[538] little bit to Brentford.

[539] Yeah, I feel like, like I said earlier, I want to manage in a club to like really want me and put their arm around me. And I feel like throughout the whole situation, Brent, Brentford have done that.

[540] Like, even, even the players as well.

[541] I spoke to loads of them.

[542] They don't agree with it, but it is what it is.

[543] And your mum?

[544] Yeah.

[545] She's like, when I, like, going back to the tweet, when I put that tweet out, she was the first person that rang me and messaged me said listen you don't need to do nothing just don't do no more please I've been saying now she's been sick for she feels sick in her stomach for an hour along throughout the whole situation and putting that out there she's just thinking it's going to damage me damage her and damage her and damage her and damage her family and things like this so I just thought okay let me just do the talk on my feet and when I'm back get the family well they're not smiling but happy happy again and I'm sure they can't wait to see their son back on the pitch screen goes does she does it mean the most to you to make her happy and to make her feel good all my family yeah I feel like that she always just text me randomly and she's like she always said I don't want to bother you sometimes I just check on what I'm sitting on WhatsApp to wait for you to come online know you're okay and alive and well and that's just that's how my mom is like it'll be sometimes my mom she knows and she does she calls me random times it would be 12 at night or it would be early doors just checking in I was fine love you so much this and that but yeah that's her favourite one checking to see if I'm online on WhatsApp rather than pestering me in her eyes but so I think making them happy and making them smile is what is what gives me the thrill to do well the Brentford fan base yeah strong, massive showing you a lot of love as well yeah yeah where I go I'll get love from the Brentford fan so that's good and that's key what's your you're going to get back to football and I can feel you've got a certain fire inside you Yeah I think I just Not that I need to prove anybody Wrong but there's There's a lot of Haters and doubts out there thinking He ain't going to be the same man when he comes back Actually they're right Because I'm going to be a different man That'd be even better than that That guy that's called them goals before So How do you know?

[546] Because I'm built different My mentality is different I'm not one of these Oh he could have been a great player hadn't he done this I'm gonna go beyond that like I said not a point to prove but point to prove to myself how do you ensure that happens like what is it that because I think about controllables what is it that you can control to make sure that you come back an even better player is it just training harder is it what is it that you're it's training harder but in my head every time I step on a pitch I'm thinking in my head I'm going to score today I'm going to score I know I'm going to score when the chance comes I'm going to score because in the game you're bound to get a chance that you should be scoring so in my head now thinking right when I do play and I do get that chance that I should be scoring it has to be a goal so it's going to be a goal what if it's not the next one will be a goal or if it's not it will be that'll be two goals you know Brentford is a fantastic team I think of all the teams in the Premier League if we talk about admiration I really admire Brighton at the moment, but Brentford, I absolutely think our brilliant, brilliant team.

[547] Really a ton of admiration for them.

[548] There's a lot of people that are obviously linking you to other clubs and saying, oh, is he going to join this?

[549] Manchester United and all of that.

[550] How do you receive all of that?

[551] You know, all these links to...

[552] Because everyone's looking for a striker.

[553] Strikers are like the hardest to find.

[554] Goal scorer is in the Premier League.

[555] You got Harland, you've got Kane.

[556] He's gone.

[557] Now you're technically the second best striker.

[558] That's currently in the league on paper.

[559] So, you know, these big clubs are going to come knocking.

[560] They're going to say, you know, Chelsea's got fucking unlimited money over here.

[561] United, we need a striker.

[562] How do you receive all of that?

[563] I mean, like from Youngen, like I said, I don't let this all affect me. Obviously, you hear it all going on in the background, but my job is just to keep training well when I get the chance in the games to keep scoring and doing well.

[564] But I think everybody wants to play at the top of the tree and not that Brentford aren't there.

[565] but I feel like playing for big club fighting for trophies and these kind of things everybody wants to do and if the chance was to come along I think I'd be silly not to look more into it but I feel like yeah and the manager knows that I want to be playing the highest level possible and whenever that time comes then so be it but I can't I think my time at Brentford's been, been good.

[566] It's probably one of the best times in my career.

[567] And that's a special club, like, they've just got something.

[568] They've got a culture there, which is super special.

[569] So, you know, that culture you describe will get the best out of you as a player, for sure.

[570] So it's like great talent, great culture equals great results.

[571] It's like one plus one equals three.

[572] Yeah, no. Yeah, I like the next club I'll go to, if I was the move, it would be like the right club.

[573] When you say the right club, you're not talking about Liverpool, are you?

[574] I heard you're a Liverpool fan.

[575] Yeah, Liverpool fan, a Liverpool fan.

[576] You've been a Liverpool fan your whole life?

[577] Yeah, I've been a Liverpool fan my whole life.

[578] But from young, I've liked Arsenal.

[579] I like watching Arsenal from how they play and the kind of how passionate fans are.

[580] But yeah, I'm a Liverpool fan, Liverpool boy at heart.

[581] So Liverpool at heart, love how Arsenal play, love their style.

[582] Yeah.

[583] Anything about Manchester United, Ivan?

[584] I liked, I like Baventov when he was there.

[585] Okay.

[586] I liked watching United a lot when Bavutov was there, so.

[587] Okay.

[588] But we do actually need a striker, so I've actually got a contract here that Eric and Richard Arnold have given me. Imagine.

[589] Now, well, listen, I hope you, I just want to see you back playing again because I think it's a gift to the Premier League your talent.

[590] And also, when I look at your story, you didn't have a straight line that a lot of people have in football you went up down up down up down up down and you persevered because the talent is you can't argue with it you can't argue with the talent and so this whole gambling section of your life um it's a bit of a blip in there it's a hurdle you've overcome and you've taken your your punishment um you move on from that you admit responsibility yeah yeah um and so now it becomes the back about again about the football yeah like he's said the journey's been it's been wild it's been crazy and if i was to read a book on myself i'd say this guy's done a lot and been through a lot and he's still fighting and they're still climbing to the top of the tree like how's he managed all that with everything that's come on what's the goal you know if i if we if we have this conversation again at the end of your career and we sit down here and we go man and you go down that was a successful career steve what happened I want to be playing for England and scoring goals.

[591] I don't want to just be, he played with England a couple times.

[592] I want to be the main man, wherever I go.

[593] And for England.

[594] I know.

[595] I got Harry Kenner.

[596] He's probably one of the best strikers in the world, if not the best.

[597] So, and that's what I'm up against.

[598] So I need to get to that level.

[599] So he just takes working hard and keep fighting.

[600] You've got the euros around the corner as well.

[601] Yeah, and that's another place I want to get to, which I do believe that in my head, I'm ready to get to.

[602] And at club level, what are your ambitions there in football?

[603] Win, win trophies, with some silverware.

[604] I feel like I want to play for the highest level level.

[605] possible, play for a club that's, I'm loved that, not just one of.

[606] But I feel like, with all my moves, I've not just gone to the club for whatever or money, whatever.

[607] I've gone, it's been the right step for me and I've achieved something every year, every year I've just got better and better.

[608] You want to win the Premier League one day?

[609] That's the aim.

[610] That's the aim.

[611] I don't win the World Cup also I know in the trophies that's like wow I'm being from where I'm from Northampton not many people can achieve them things or be like yeah he's been at the World Cup he's won the World Cup and even then like my mum still lives in the same house really?

[612] Yeah she doesn't want to move she likes being there and people will one day be like like, yeah, Ivan's mum lives there.

[613] I'd rather do that now, but it'd be more of achievement.

[614] And I've won something like that.

[615] And I'm like, yeah, I have his mom's there.

[616] My Ivan comes there all the time.

[617] I think that's kind of, kind of how we are, how I am.

[618] And you can see, like, my mom's, she doesn't want to move into some big house.

[619] She feels safe and comfy at the house where she's at.

[620] And that shows that I have no choice but to be grounded.

[621] And you have three kids as well.

[622] three little boys.

[623] Do you think about them?

[624] Do you think about what the legacy you want to leave that they're going to grow up and learn about?

[625] Does that cross your mind a lot?

[626] Yeah.

[627] Yeah, it does.

[628] I want to leave a legacy that they don't have no pressure on their shoulders to walk into.

[629] I just wanted to, whether there is a football or whatever industry they look to go into, which obviously I would want to say, it's football.

[630] But whatever they deal on them to be successful and be like, be strong, like, my children, I feel like that I'd want them, I do want them to have the same, like, bring an eye hard.

[631] Like, I wouldn't put them to that private school, one of these things, because I don't want to just give them everything.

[632] I want them to have to work for some of the things.

[633] What advice would you give them about how to, how to navigate?

[634] Say they do go into football all three of them.

[635] And they say, they come to you one day, they say, Dad, listen, just got a call from the biggest club in the York, Manchester United.

[636] and I'm going to accept it and go to Manchester at playing at Eric.

[637] I need some advice, Dad.

[638] I'm, you know, I'm on my way tomorrow.

[639] What advice can you give me, Dad?

[640] I have the mentality as you're the best player on the pitch.

[641] You might not be, but having that mentality will help you play better and just have the hunger.

[642] If you haven't got the hunger or the drive, you'll step behind already.

[643] I'd say like also attitude is key because I'll get you a long way not just in football or work in life you know when you did this this tweet famous tweet I'll speak soon with no filter I understand that came from a place of anger like a bit defensive whatever mood settles your mum texts you're like okay maybe this is not going to help the situation there was a lot you wanted to say right you wanted to talk specifically about the allegations you've decided now from what you're saying that it's not worth it for you to like go in and dispute things and say this, that and the other's not true.

[644] But was there anything that you do want to say to like the football community or just to the world generally as a message when you tweeted that outside of like the stuff where we're like a bit bitter and hurt because of everything that's going on and people are attacking you whatever.

[645] Is there anything else you wanted to say?

[646] Because I just want to give you a chance just to...

[647] Not really.

[648] Like you said, most of it comes from angle and it's kind of like, everybody's against me kind of thing but with that it's kind of like I was more worried on people like thinking how I am how I am as a person like what they read and what they're here rather than how I actually am but the people around me friends family the only people I should be worried about they know how I am why don't need to explain to Bob down the road how I actually am I'll probably never going to see him again.

[649] So it doesn't matter that.

[650] Why am I explaining that?

[651] Why am I going out there to give it like a back and forth?

[652] Like, I don't need to do that.

[653] And it doesn't benefit me. It just benefits him in trying to get more of a reaction from me. So, like he said, it definitely was out of our anger, anger kind of moment.

[654] It's kind of like, all right, let me say this and let me say that, not knowing.

[655] knock on effect it could have so it's not i don't need to try and prove nobody wrong or prove nobody right it's just focus on myself family and do what i do best which is playing well and scoring goals speaking with your feet correct i did want to talk to you about one last thing you did a tweet as well about a dm someone sent you yeah um someone had dm'd you calling you a black C word and you posted the tweet subsequently you stopped taking the knee during at the start of Premier League games and such racism and football do you still receive racial abuse still today?

[656] Yeah you do if I also post everything I've received that's been racist I'd have easily around 100 messages easily just reel off there, there, yeah.

[657] Has that increased since the sanctions were made against you from the commission?

[658] No, because I feel like most of it's just betting rubbish that I get like people are saying, but I feel like most of it's from playing a game and someone's bet on you or you haven't scored and then they come on, come for you for like these kind of things or the fantasy league, yeah, football.

[659] league like you don't get them enough points and now come at you like this or you'll score to lose that bit also just things like this why did you stop taking the knee because i feel like it's it's a token gesture it's not really it's lost its purpose and like you can see like before games some people like run off with the heart half the knee forgot about that like the purpose isn't there no more i don't think that's doing nothing in the game to help stop these kind of things from happening more needs to be done for sure for sure 100 % all over the world not just in the UK but we obviously saw what happened to vinescas junior as well in the in the leiga um and it does does feel like if there was harsher action taken then a lot of this stuff wouldn't be happening even from the platforms and also from the police um you know i think yeah most most well some of them are from abroad and it's kind of like if it's not in the UK they can't do nothing about it And I'm like, okay, so what?

[660] You just keep sending from wherever.

[661] But yeah, we can't really do nothing.

[662] It's not, it's not as, okay, so it's fine.

[663] And basically you're saying it's fine.

[664] Yeah.

[665] It's like, what do you do?

[666] Yeah, I feel like it's lost his purpose.

[667] Personally, anyway, and I feel like it's kind of like puppets.

[668] If you put at the top, we're kind of like, let's try this.

[669] Well, let's do this.

[670] Keep people quiet for a bit.

[671] Just do that and we're trying.

[672] It's not trying.

[673] You're counting down the days now.

[674] Yeah, I literally am just like...

[675] Really?

[676] Christmas, yeah.

[677] I count down the days or two, I can train and be around the boys because, like, being in football prison at the moment.

[678] When I'm around the boys, I think it won't get easier.

[679] Well, you get a little bit easier, but not the same as like, you train a whole week.

[680] hard at the end of the week it's no like end goal or reward you're not playing a match and then is it January you can play yeah January the 17th you can train again I can play matches oh you can play matches yes 17th for September I can train so oh September I can train yeah okay and then December I can train yeah I can be in a club around the boys okay oh so not long yeah not long not long less than a month yeah it feels like ages though and then you can play in January that's gonna be a very big game a lot of people are going to be watching that.

[681] Yeah.

[682] Do you feel pressure?

[683] No. I don't feel.

[684] I thrive off pressure when it's like, surely he can't do that.

[685] He's not going to be able to do it.

[686] And that's what, like the pressure was, like we spoke about after the player final.

[687] And we got a penalty.

[688] After the game, I was like, you must have been scared.

[689] Like if you missed, it probably could have like, you could probably could have lost.

[690] It was massive thinking, no, I couldn't wait.

[691] Like, I knew for a fat -tile school, like, penny.

[692] 100%.

[693] Because it was the pressure and, like, the reward after it gives you a bigger chance to jump into primary and more money for family.

[694] Are you trying to prove people right or trying to prove people wrong?

[695] What matters more to you?

[696] Proving people wrong, so I can have a little dig on.

[697] Yeah.

[698] I like that.

[699] I like when I see certain.

[700] certain tweets and when i do something i come back to it and just like have a little comment and dig at the person and there's just lots of words that's like you're right you win you've been taking names throughout this process just like this this pundit said this this person i mean there's loads of pundits that say loads of things it's all opinions but when i come back school and i'm sure they'll go back into the bush and backped on what they say we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're going to leave it for.

[701] So they wrote a question for you here in this diary.

[702] The question been left for you is, when have you most had to face your fears?

[703] Probably the ban, because I think loads of things go through your head.

[704] It's like, like I said, if I'm having football at such a young age, not knowing if there's loads of things that go through your head.

[705] how you're going to cope with things like at the time I was kind of like not wary I feel like I'm a confident person but going out in certain places the topic is going to be about the whole scandal that's going on people are going to talk about it but with me it's like do they want to talk about it they're thinking do I want to talk about it not scared in a way but it's kind of like it's an awkward kind of meeting kind of thing then it's an elephant in the room yeah yeah yeah and then it comes to the point where it's like they'll say something like I bet you can't do that and it's kind of like that kind of thing but I'm like yeah what's done it's done like you can talk about I don't feel like then they talk about it then it's cleared so I feel like not knowing what people are thinking about you not people not knowing what people want to kind of talk to you not knowing if you're going to be fit when you come back or not knowing what you're going to do whilst you're off loads of things go into your head and it's like it hasn't crossed your mind you might like lose your form or something that actually did yeah it did at the time but like I know I can get myself in cold school positions so I don't feel like that that would be such a big issue but it does cross your mind like but if I don't score within the first five games six games you're going to think the world's ending kind of thing but yeah i think that was the fear on these kind of things not knowing what's next kind of thing and as the days have passed it's got easier right it's got easy in ways but it's got harder and it's like easier as in like soon only around the boys and that's kind of like my head my head's fine now i'm at the club doing what i do best and enjoy but then it's kind of like at the end of the week i can't play games whilst uh the game was kind of like oh Like torture watching it.

[706] Yeah, it's torture.

[707] Like, I hate watching games when I should be on the pitch.

[708] Do you think you deserve the punishment you got?

[709] I mean, if that's what the rules are, then so be it.

[710] That's the punishment I should have got.

[711] Yeah.

[712] Looking on the other cases and the fact that they were lower leagues, it's kind of like, why did he get that?

[713] and I got this.

[714] Because he's there and I'm here.

[715] But now I feel like if this is a punishment for doing what I've done, to make that, make sure the next person gets that.

[716] Make sure the next person gets that.

[717] Like, make it all fair and correct.

[718] But that's not the thing that was fair, but it is what it is.

[719] I can't see.

[720] I can't change nothing now.

[721] I can't.

[722] That's not point me focus.

[723] on if it's fair or not because that doesn't help no situation.

[724] Yeah.

[725] I think it's possible to take responsibility for your actions.

[726] 100%.

[727] I did that.

[728] But also to think that it was unfair because they, I think, maybe rightly so, they are making an example of you.

[729] Because those lower league players, it would never send a message, would it?

[730] Correct.

[731] So with the big wages and the big status and the popularity and all the upsides comes this other thing, which is like bigger sanctions, bigger publicity, It's more of a talking point and more of a story.

[732] And I'll tell you what, you go out there and you start bagging goals.

[733] Yeah.

[734] Ain't nobody going to be talking about anything else.

[735] That's another reason I want to be scoring goals.

[736] So to put things right and let people talk about my goal scoring rather than rubbish past.

[737] I think you're going to go back to Brentford and I think you're going to fucking tear it up.

[738] Because I sense a real deep drive in you that.

[739] that I've not seen in many people a real sense of like self -belief and conviction, even what you're saying about the penalties there.

[740] Like I played at Soccerade and they came over to me and asked me if I wanted a penalty and I went to the back of the group.

[741] I was swerved out so hard.

[742] This year, we played this year.

[743] I got injured before the game at Old Trafford, but I playing and training and we had to do a penalty shootout.

[744] Potch was the manager.

[745] And I just said to myself, Steve step forward and take one.

[746] And this was to decide who got which dressing room.

[747] I took one, I scored it.

[748] And then the next day I pulled my hamstring, got a grade three tear.

[749] but I was proud of myself for stepping up and doing it Yeah That's the main thing I think if you're having your head I'm going to do this You have a better chance of thinking What if this There's no point thinking that Like even with Yeah, back yourself 100 % Like even with strikers I've played with especially strikers I play with now Like because he's I'll say his name Brian Because he knows He's like my little brother I say to him like when he missed a chance he gets so angry with himself I'm saying, bro, it's fine you're not a robot, you can miss chances when the next chance comes, you'll score and he's got a lot better at that and he's been scoring, so I think just dwell on things.

[750] But you've got a big chance coming up January.

[751] Yeah, it's...

[752] And I hope you score.

[753] I will, I know, I know I do well and like you said, this is just another hurdle in my bumpy road but it's all good it could be worse Ivan thank you thank you for um thank you for the time thank you for the inspiration you've given me um I feel like I understand you feel like I understand you and listen we all make mistakes in life I think it's really important we all we've all made mistakes I make so many mistakes I think it's yours are obviously more publicly broadcast because of who you are and you're at the top of the game you're the peak of your powers but um I think for it you move on and you let the football do the talking and i think that's exactly exactly what you have done and that's what i'm really excited to see from you going forward as i said because you're special you've got a very special talent you've got a very special mentality and a very special talent to match it and uh we can't let that go to waste so we need to it won't go to waste for sure some of the people around me they won't allow it to go to waste so good thank you so much for your time bro It means a lot to me that you came here and spoke to me and I'm a big fan and I really do hope you end up at Manchester United one day.

[754] No, thanks having me. Thanks.

[755] Thanks.

[756] It's been good.

[757] It's been good to talk through things and maybe this can help the next person if there was to think twice on doing some things or maybe to open up about something.

[758] So yeah, it's probably easy.

[759] It's good.

[760] Thanks for me like I said.