Episode 20-China 1937 to 1940.

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[35] Hello, and thank you for listening to the History of World War II podcast, episode 20, Mount Suk -dong, 1937 -1940.

[36] So during the last episode, the Long March has finally come to an end in October of 1935.

[37] What's left of the Communist Party and the troops after being decimated by the Long March and by the Nationalist forces are now in the northern province of Shanxi.

[38] So even though the immediate harassment by Chiang Kai -shek and his national forces have ceased, Mao still needs to get to the Russian supplies to keep him going because it's pretty much just him and his men.

[39] They have very little food, very little weapons.

[40] They don't have any peace or stability to have organization.

[41] So the march is over, but now he has to start with reorganizing what's left of the Communist Party.

[42] But opposing this, of course, is Chiang Kai -shek's need to keep all the communists together, to keep them penned in so he can keep an eye on them.

[43] He's going to keep them weak but alive because, again, he's going to use what's left of the Communist Party as a negotiating factor to try to get his son back from Moscow.

[44] So the communists are penned in, and Chiang Kai -shek is going to keep negotiating with Moscow.

[45] So he puts the young marshal, Chiang Xieliang, in charge of the two provinces that are between Mao and his men, and the areas where they could go to get Russian supplies.

[46] So there are two different possible destinations for Mao to send his men to get the Russian supplies.

[47] One is in Xinjiang, which is about 1 ,000 kilometers to the northwest, and the other is Outer Mongolia, which is about 500 kilometers due north.

[48] So Mao sends some men in both directions, but they're both beaten back by the young marshal.

[49] The young marshal is not as...

[50] determined to wipe out the communists as Chiang Kai -shek is, but Chiang Kai -shek is keeping an eye on the young marshal, so he has to do his duty, and he stops both attempts for the communists to get to the Russian supplies.

[51] Now the interesting thing is that the young marshal and Mao are in the same province.

[52] And I'm going to refer to him as the young marshal from now on because his last name and Chiang Kai -shek's last name are very similar.

[53] So they're in the same province and Mao is stationed about 300 kilometers north of where the young marshal has his base at.

[54] And again, for these two provinces, the young marshal has about 300 ,000 troops.

[55] So Mao is north of the young marshal, but the young marshal's troops are north of Mao, keeping him from going any further north to get to the Russian supplies.

[56] They are truly pinned in.

[57] So here's where things start to get interesting.

[58] The young marshal had inherited Manchuria from his father when his father was killed in June of 1928.

[59] So the young marshal puts his domain under Chiang Kai -shek, but he loses it.

[60] when the Japanese invade in 1931.

[61] Now, according to best evidence, because I read five different books and I could not get a clear -cut picture of what happened, the young marshal wanted to be in charge over Chiang Kai -shek because he had ruled Manchuria, and if you look on a map, it is a very large area, so he thought he was qualified to run the entire country.

[62] So it's either the young marshal thought he could do a better job than Chiang Kai -shek, or that he saw which way the wind was blowing with the communists becoming more popular, and decided to start negotiating with the communists.

[63] So again, Russia is very desperate to keep Japan out of their territory, and they want to do anything they can do to help China keep the fighting in China and not spread to Russia.

[64] So the young marshal starts talking to the Chinese communists.

[65] Moscow starts talking to the young marshal.

[66] Pretty soon they're all talking to each other, feeling each other out, negotiating.

[67] But the only one who doesn't know this is Chiang Kai -shek.

[68] So the young marshal is talking to the Chinese communists, but he knows that they're taking orders from Moscow.

[69] So he also talks to Stalin as well.

[70] And he lets Moscow know that he is interested in allying with the Chinese Reds and fighting the Japanese to get them out of their country.

[71] Of course, this is something that Stalin is very interested in.

[72] He didn't believe that the young marshal was the man to hold China together or to fight the Japanese, but he would take what he could get because he didn't trust Chiang Kai -shek.

[73] turn, the young marshal wanted Russia to support him when he tried to take over the nationalist government from Chiang Kai -shek.

[74] So Stalin, understandably, and you can't really be upset with him for this, wanted to drive the war between China and Japan south, knowing that they would get bogged down in China's hinterland.

[75] Again, Stalin didn't think that young marshal was the man to do this, but he did play him along.

[76] He wasn't dumb enough to say no outright.

[77] He played him along to see if he could get some help from him because Because remember that the young marshal is the man who's in charge of the two provinces between Mao's troops and the Russian supply.

[78] So he's going to at least get something out of him while he's talking to him.

[79] So Mao sends a negotiator to the young marshal to start talking.

[80] And this starts happening about January 1936.

[81] Now, of course, Chiang Kai -shek is totally out of the loop on all this.

[82] And if you think about it, he's really stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[83] He's politically very intelligent.

[84] But he's not a military genius.

[85] And I think a lot of people get that confused.

[86] And he couldn't trust most of his generals.

[87] He was too afraid to arm, equip his generals.

[88] And he was too afraid to train their troops because he didn't know who would try to take him over.

[89] So he really doesn't know who to trust.

[90] And he doesn't want an all -out war with Japan because he knows that his men can't stand up to the Japanese troops yet.

[91] The Japanese are too well -equipped.

[92] They're too well -trained.

[93] So he's trying to balance the thin line between opposing Japan.

[94] but yet not declaring an all -out war with them.

[95] So even though Stalin was not sincere in his negotiations with the young marshal, Mao Zedong was.

[96] He really wanted an alliance with the young marshal against Chiang Kai -shek.

[97] Mao thought he had figured out a way to be the power behind all of this wheeling and dealing.

[98] Mao would get the supplies from Russia.

[99] He would control the supplies.

[100] And because of that, he would control the young marshal and get the young marshal to take out Chiang Kai -shek.

[101] And with this in mind, Mao sent his negotiator...

[102] to the young marshal, and he told him to hint, without saying it outright, that Russia was okay with all this.

[103] And, of course, that's not true because Stalin really doesn't have that kind of faith in the young marshal.

[104] So Mao is already starting to show signs of independence.

[105] He's not going to just literally toe the line and do what Moscow says.

[106] He's got his own ideas, and he's going to try and manipulate anybody and everybody to make his dreams of China come true.

[107] So as you can imagine, with all this wheeling, dealing, and double dealing, the young marshal didn't really trust what he was hearing.

[108] He wanted to hear this offer from Moscow personally.

[109] So about this time, a former pastor, Pastor Dong, comes along to see the young marshal.

[110] And really, he's a communist secret agent.

[111] And he tells the young marshal, you should send a representative to Moscow to further these talks.

[112] And then Pastor Dong follows this up by saying, It's my job to take Mao's two sons who were found in Shanghai destitute on the street from his...

[113] first marriage, and we'll get into all that later, his job was to take the two boys to Russia to be taken care of, to be educated, and to be looked after.

[114] Some people say they were meant to be hostages to keep Mao in line.

[115] Some people were saying that because they were destitute on the street for years, the communists had finally found them in Shanghai and were going to take them to Russia to take care of them because Mao didn't have time because of his situation.

[116] So Pastor Deng says, why don't you pick a representative and have them Take the two boys to Russia.

[117] That way it's two birds with one stone.

[118] The boys get to Russia where they're going to be safe and taken care of.

[119] And you now have a representative who has excuse to be in Russia to talk things over for you, to represent you.

[120] So the young marshal likes this idea.

[121] He sets it all up.

[122] He picks someone.

[123] And the representative and the boys take off in June of 1936.

[124] And of course the communists weren't stupid.

[125] They got something out of this as well.

[126] Only the young marshal could get the two boys and the representative through the nationalist territory up to Moscow, and the young marshal would be paying for the expense as well.

[127] So there's always a lot of thinking 10 steps ahead with these people, and it's a very impressive way to go about things.

[128] So after the long march, the radio contact between Moscow and the Chinese communists is finally reestablished in June of 1936.

[129] And Moscow wastes no time in telling Mao to quit treating Chiang Kai -shek like the enemy.

[130] Japan was the enemy.

[131] We'll work everything else out later, but right now you have to make peace with them, however insincere it may be, with the nationalists, accept Chiang Kai -shek as leader, get along somehow, and fight the Japanese.

[132] I don't think Stalin had to worry about...

[133] covering up his true fears or his true motives, because Russia was the only thing keeping the Communist Party in China going.

[134] So he pretty much had control over them, and he didn't hesitate to use it.

[135] So Mao's got his walking orders from Moscow.

[136] And then when Chiang Kai -shek about this time says to Moscow one more time, hey, can I have my son back?

[137] The first thing Stalin says is, I want you to start talking to the Reds to work something out.

[138] They're going to be coming to you.

[139] I want you to be receptive.

[140] And this is going to make the Communist Party more legitimate in the eyes of the Chinese because normally Chiang Kai -shek would not be talking to Mao.

[141] But now he has to because he's being encouraged to by the Russians.

[142] And this is going to give them more legitimacy.

[143] However, this is politics.

[144] This is war.

[145] And so by October of 1936, Chiang Kai -shek is planning his sixth annihilation force.

[146] Remember the first four that were defeated because the communists had really good intel about what the nationalists were doing.

[147] The fifth annihilation comes along, which forces the long march.

[148] So here's the sixth one.

[149] And this time, because there's such proximity between the young marshal's base and then where Mao's at with his troops, Chiang Kai -shek is pretty sure this is going to work.

[150] So he gathers all his forces together.

[151] He tells them to forget about the Japanese Manchuria, and he gathers all his forces together.

[152] Now, the young marshal, again, is very upset by this.

[153] He and his men who are left have lost their homes in Manchuria to the Japanese.

[154] And he knows that if he listens to Chiang Kai -shek and focuses on destroying the Communist Party, it's going to be years before they can even think about taking on the Japanese and getting their homes back.

[155] So he's very upset by this, and his men are very upset by this.

[156] Now, in Chiang Kai -shek's defense, he was taught by Sun Yat -sen, his mentor, that the communists were the real enemy to focus on them first.

[157] And obviously this was a very unpopular idea with many of the Chinese, but this is what was taught to Chiang Kai -shek when he was young, and it really stuck in his mind.

[158] However, the young marshal saw the Chinese communists as potential allies.

[159] At least they were trying to find a way to foil the Japanese plans of total conquest of China.

[160] Everybody knew that the Japanese were trying to, once they had taken Manchuria, to build it up to get the resources and then either be ready to launch another larger attack into taking the rest of China or maybe going to Russia.

[161] So everybody was afraid, and they knew that something had to be done.

[162] So the young marshal was open to uniting with the communists, even in the short term.

[163] So it's during all this that the...

[164] The negotiator from Mao was coming to the Marshall and he's saying, look, I want to agree.

[165] I agree with you that we should get together and we should fight the Japanese.

[166] These are the people that murdered your father and took your took your territory and took it from all your men.

[167] Whereas Chiang Kai -shek just wants to kill fellow Chinese people.

[168] So let's get together and work on this.

[169] And of course, at this point, no one in China is really has any hope in the League of Nations.

[170] They certainly weren't able to help Ethiopia when Italy attacked them.

[171] The irony in all this, of course, was that Chiang Kai -shek was working on plans to take on the Japanese, but the plans were being made in secret.

[172] He didn't want any of the details to get out because he thought the Sixth Annihilation...

[173] This campaign is going to come soon.

[174] It's going to be successful.

[175] They're going to be wiped out.

[176] So I already have to have a plan in place to take on the Japanese.

[177] So he's working on the details.

[178] He just didn't want anything to get out because if the Japanese found out what he was doing, what he was planning, where he was building up forces, they might launch a preemptive attack and then he'd have to start all over again.

[179] So in December of 1936, Chiang Kai -shek makes his way to Shion, the capital of Shanzi, where the young marshal has his base.

[180] So Chiang Kai -shek arrives.

[181] He's putting the final touches on his annihilation campaign.

[182] And the young marshal tries one more time.

[183] He says, negotiations with the Chinese communists are still possible, even if it's for the short term, even if it's a bold -faced lie.

[184] Let's get together with them and work on this.

[185] But Chiang Kai -shek ends the conversation by saying that he would demand obedience and nothing else.

[186] So since Chiang Kai -shek is not going to listen, it's clear to the young marshal that he only has one choice.

[187] So on December the 12th, as it's nighttime and Chiang Kai -shek is getting ready for bed, The young marshal comes in with some of his men, and some of Chiang Kai -shek's men are shot and killed.

[188] Chiang Kai -shek is able to slip out.

[189] He runs into the woods.

[190] I don't even think he's fully dressed.

[191] He runs out into the woods, and he's trying to get away, but then he slips and falls, or I think he's trying to climb over something, and he hurts his back, and he's unable to move, and then that's when he's captured by the young marshal's men, and he's brought back to headquarters.

[192] So Chiang Kai -shek is held captive for about two weeks.

[193] And again, it's not clear.

[194] I read several sources.

[195] Some sources said that Mao wanted to kill him right away.

[196] Other sources said that Mao wanted to make a deal with him and then set him free so he could be seen as Chiang Kai -shek's equal.

[197] Again, I'm not sure, but here are the facts.

[198] Chiang Kai -shek is held for about two weeks.

[199] He's released on Christmas Day, 1936.

[200] He goes back to Nanjing, a free man, but the young marshal goes with him.

[201] and he becomes his prisoner.

[202] So it's all over with, but obviously there was a lot of talking going on for those two weeks.

[203] And again, it's kind of muddled, but I'm sure Stalin was having conversations with Mao.

[204] Mao was talking to Chiang Kai -shek.

[205] There might have even been times when Stalin was getting messages to Chiang Kai -shek.

[206] So within those two weeks, they come to an agreement.

[207] The two Chinese parties are going to work together to get rid of the Japanese, and then there's a lot of details for them to work out.

[208] But that's the main thrust of it.

[209] And then again, Chiang Kai -shek is released Christmas Day, 1936.

[210] So this allowed Mao to seem Chiang Kai -shek's equal because he was in charge of the Communist Party.

[211] They came to a deal.

[212] So this legitimizes Mao and the Communist Party even further.

[213] So again, Chiang Kai -shek is no longer seen as the sole important leader of China.

[214] There's now two.

[215] People think that they're not rivals, but of course they still are.

[216] And part of the agreement was that Chiang Kai -shek would fund the Communist Party.

[217] They would give them land, they would give them support, they'd give them money, and they would legitimize them in the eyes of the nationalist people and in the eyes of a lot of the people in China as well.

[218] Another part of the agreement for the United Front of the Nationalists and the Communist Party in China is that all the forces are going to be technically under Chiang Kai -shek's control.

[219] But again, he knows that Mao's not going to listen to him.

[220] Mao's barely listening to Stalin.

[221] So on paper, Chiang Kai -shek is in charge, but now Mao's not going to listen to him, and Chiang Kai -shek knows it.

[222] So he's dealing with the political reality as is.

[223] So in January of 1937, Chiang Kai -shek and Stalin come to an agreement concerning the status of the Chinese Communist Party.

[224] And this compromise pretty much leads to Stalin agreeing to release Chiang Kai -shek's son.

[225] So then Stalin turns to Mao, and he's communicating with him through the radio, and he says, Stop trying to overthrow Chiang Kai -shek.

[226] Accept the nationalists for now as the legitimate government of China.

[227] Put the Red Territory that you're going to be given and the Red Army under Chiang Kai -shek and work together.

[228] And, of course, Mao agrees to all of this on paper.

[229] So the two Chinese parties are going to start working together.

[230] And in the agreement called the United Front, Mao and the Communist Party get about just...

[231] under 130 ,000 square kilometers of land with about a population of 2 million people, and their capital would be in Yan 'an in the Shaanxi province.

[232] Also, Chiang had to promise to give enough money to arm and pay for about 46 ,000 red troops.

[233] And after all of this, finally, Moscow agrees to release Chiang Kai -shek's son, and he's reunited with his father on April 19, 1937.

[234] He had been held hostage for just over 11 years.

[235] So this is going along, and things are looking better, but soon the United Forces have more to worry about than just trying to...

[236] work out the details with each other.

[237] Now, Japan's trying to focus on Manchuria.

[238] Again, their goal is to hold on to Manchuria, develop it, and then be able to use the resources from that to either finish off China or maybe attack Russia.

[239] No one really knows.

[240] I'm not even sure if the Japanese knew what they wanted to do.

[241] But, of course, things change when, in the first week of July 1937, there's the incident at the Marco Polo Bridge.

[242] Again, the details are sketchy, but it seems clear from the people that were there at the time that a third party was trying to start a fight between the two forces, the Nationalists and the Japanese forces stationed near the bridge.

[243] And of course, this is going to escalate, tensions are going to increase, and then pretty soon there's a full -scale war in this area, which is obviously south of Manchuria, where the Japanese don't want to focus on.

[244] They're not ready for that yet, but the battle widens, and then pretty soon Peking is attacked.

[245] Tia Jin is attacked, and then later on that year in August, Shanghai is attacked.

[246] So it's a whole other theater of war that's going on in the south of Manchuria.

[247] Obviously, Stalin is very happy with this, but Chiang Kai -shek is not happy because he doesn't have enough troops to deal with the Japanese Manchuria, and the Reds are not happy with this because this is closer to their base as well.

[248] But it happens, and now they have to deal with it.

[249] And one more point I'd like to make about...

[250] Chiang Kai -shek and his son back.

[251] When all this is going on, but right before Stalin agrees to release his son, Chiang Kai -shek does one more thing to try and get his son back, because he doesn't know that his son's about to be released at any moment.

[252] Chiang Kai -shek, in February of 1937, makes Shaolin Zhu, who is a secret Soviet mole, to be the head of the Nationalist Propaganda Department.

[253] So his job, as far as being in charge of propaganda, is to change the attitude of the press, and of the world about the Communist Party in China.

[254] And obviously he's going to work very hard at it because he is secretly a communist member in the Chinese Communist Party.

[255] And he does his job really well, but by the time Chiang Kai -shek figures this out about a year later and removes him from the position, he's pretty much cleaned up the communist reputation in China and with the foreign powers as well.

[256] So as far as everyone knows, Mao, whether you like him or hate him, has his reputation cleaned up, and so he's able to bring more adherence within China to his cause.

[257] And one of the big items that really starts to bring the young, passionate Chinese people to Yan 'an to help the communists is that the gentleman who was in charge of the propaganda department really portrays Mao as someone who is fiercely anti -Japanese and is willing to do anything and everything to get rid of the Japanese, and that's all he cares about.

[258] He doesn't care about personal glory or advantage or prestige.

[259] All he cares about is getting rid of the Japanese, and that's the version of him that's spun, and it really does a lot of people.

[260] come to believe that when they come to Yan 'an to help the communists.

[261] So this is a good start for Mao, but he knows politically he needs to do much more to bring the Chinese people to his side, because one day the war with Japan will be over, and then it will be back to who do you choose, the communists or the nationalists.

[262] So Mao starts thinking about a wider audience to get everyone in China as well as foreigners on his side.

[263] So what he does is in mid -1936, he spends a lot of time with Edgar Snow, an American who comes over who's pretty much got leftist views, and they spend hundreds of hours together really trying to get a sense of who Mao was.

[264] And Mao used Edgar Snow to explain that all he cared about was fighting for his people and getting rid of the Japanese troops on the Chinese.

[265] mainland.

[266] And of course, what Mao wanted, the Communist Party wanted as well.

[267] So Mao knew he was taking a chance by talking with this American.

[268] He knew enough American history to know that America wouldn't agree with him.

[269] wouldn't agree with his goal as bringing communism to China, but at least they might understand what he was trying to do.

[270] So a biography of Mao comes out by Edgar Snow in November of 1937 and is pretty much controlled by Mao.

[271] He's not going to let this guy write anything he wants.

[272] He pretty much controls the outcome of the book.

[273] And the book talks about his virtues and it pretty much shows him to be a Superman solely focused on the care of his people, their way of life, and of course getting rid of the Japanese troops.

[274] Welcome to True Spies.

[275] The podcast that takes you deep inside the greatest secret missions of all time.

[276] Suddenly out of the dark it's appeared in love.

[277] You'll meet the people who live life undercover.

[278] What do they know?

[279] What are their skills?

[280] And what would you do in their position?

[281] Vengeance felt good.

[282] Seeing these people pay for what they'd done felt righteous.

[283] True Spies from Spyscape Studios.

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[285] Mao also had control of the second book Edgar Snow put out the following year about him.

[286] And again, it pretty much showed him in a very positive light, a very patriotic light.

[287] And again, this brought a lot of young people in China to Yan 'an to help with the Communist Party and their cause, which is, you know, to make a classless, fair, just society.

[288] To be summed up pretty much by saying, China for the Chinese.

[289] So on January 1st, 1937, Mao and the communist hierarchy move into their new capital of Yan 'an, which translated into extending peace.

[290] Now there were a lot of temples and many fine houses in this area, because the previous owners, when they found out that this location was being handed over to them by the nationalists for the communist headquarters, they pretty much took off.

[291] So there was some property owned by Standard Oil, and there was some property owned by Spanish Franciscans, but they all took off.

[292] Their property was seized, and the communist regime used this as their headquarters and their different departments and the buildings and things like that.

[293] So in Yan 'an, Mao would be here for 10 years after the Long March.

[294] He didn't know it, but he would end up being here for the next 10 years.

[295] So finally, after all he'd gone through with the Long March, he was able to settle down.

[296] He now had time on his hands.

[297] So one of the things he chose to do was keep up with events outside of his country, because of all this time before, he was only...

[298] focused on China.

[299] He saw the connection between Europe's anti -German stance with his own anti -Japanese stance.

[300] And then obviously those two countries come together.

[301] And he lent his pen to writing about anti -fascism, about why it should be defeated, and how he was going to help do what he could.

[302] But then, of course, Mao got worried when Germany seemed to be, you know, in the late 1930s and early 1940s, when Germany was winning over the stumbling allies of Britain and France.

[303] He was worried, and he realized...

[304] he might not be able to get help from them either because obviously they're dealing with as much as they could handle in Europe.

[305] So Mal's settling down.

[306] His wife is with him.

[307] But to be honest with you, between the Long March, the numerous pregnancies, the fact that she still had shrapnel in her body from one of the attacks during the Long March, she is just pretty much beaten down and worn out.

[308] And the pregnancies, to be honest with you, aren't about to stop.

[309] And Mao's eye starts to wander around.

[310] He sees a lot of the young people coming from the coast to Yan 'an to help.

[311] And, you know, a lot of these people are young.

[312] They're passionate.

[313] They're educated.

[314] And this really catches Mao's eye, especially the young women.

[315] So it's not very long before he meets one woman in particular, Lily Wu.

[316] She's 26.

[317] She's educated.

[318] She's wearing her hair relatively long.

[319] A lot of the women, especially the ones on the Long March, either shaved their hair off or were wearing it very short to avoid lice.

[320] They all had these boring, straight -cut uniforms, but Lily was a little different.

[321] She was young.

[322] She was thinking outside any kind of boundaries, and that caught his attention, so he started flirting with her pretty much right away.

[323] Getting back to the national stage, again in July 1937.

[324] Fighting broke out between Nationalist troops and the Japanese at the Marco Polo Bridge near Peking.

[325] And up until this time, the fighting, what there was of the fighting, was happening north in Manchuria.

[326] But soon, because of this incident, the Marco Polo Bridge incident, the Japanese would soon take Peking and Tianjin, and pretty soon they would attack Shanghai.

[327] Now, there was a General Chong who was a Nationalist commander of the Shanghai garrison nearby, and he wanted to attack the Japanese, but Chiang Kai -shek didn't.

[328] was having a hard enough time dealing with the better trained, better equipped Japanese forces in the Manchurian area.

[329] Some say General Chung was a communist spy and some people say that he was just one of the many independent generals that Chiang Kai -shek had to deal with.

[330] And it's possible that he saw himself like some of the other generals as Chiang Kai -shek's replacement.

[331] But either way, against Chiang Kai -shek's orders, General Zhang launched an attack against the Japanese in this area.

[332] And part of this was due to the very high anti -Japanese feelings in the area, combined with claims and counterclaims of who was attacking who, who started it first.

[333] Because, remember again, the Japanese really didn't want this either.

[334] They were trying to focus on Manchuria.

[335] So Chiang Kai -shek...

[336] is forced, because of the skirmishing going on, Chiang Kai -shek is forced by August 16, 1937, to order General Chong to attack officially.

[337] So General Chiang Kai -shek puts about 500 ,000 troops into the area, and of course they don't have the right equipment.

[338] equally trained to the Japanese troop.

[339] And out of the 500, a lot of them are lost.

[340] But the Japanese lost men too, even though they had the victory in that area and they were able to wipe out a lot of those forces.

[341] But of course, the Japanese had fewer men to lose than the Chinese did.

[342] So now the fighting is starting to spread.

[343] Japanese are putting more troops into this area.

[344] And it's not southern China, but it is south of Manchuria.

[345] So we'll just call it like the middle of the...

[346] east coast of China.

[347] And so the Japanese are putting more troops into it and they start pushing Chang away from the coast westward.

[348] And of course Chang is keeping all his men together so he retreats in an orderly way.

[349] And of course this is very unpopular with the Chinese people.

[350] But the Japanese, even though they're winning, they're pushing the nationalist forces back.

[351] They're pushing them westward.

[352] This causes the Japanese to extend their supply lines.

[353] And again, logistically that just makes the situation very hard.

[354] So the Japanese are winning, but they're losing men.

[355] They really can't afford to do it, and they have more territory under their belt, and there's just no way they can control all this new land that they didn't plan on grabbing in the first place until they were ready.

[356] So as the...

[357] The nationalists are being pushed westward, and as the Japanese are following them, pushing them westward, the communists are able to slip in behind the Japanese lines and start to claim some of the countryside and the people for themselves.

[358] So the Japanese are focused on the roadways, are focused on the railways, are focused on main villages, but as far as the countryside, where the vast majority of the people are at, the communists are going in there, sneaking in there, converting the people over to communism, using them as their eyes and ears, and sometimes they're...

[359] fist and so the nationalists are weakening, they're being pushed westward, the Japanese are weakening, they're following the nationalists and the communists are gaining territory and more recruits as the advance of the Japanese keeps going westward.

[360] So Chiang Kai -shek can see what's happening, but he really can't do anything about it.

[361] He's being pushed back.

[362] He has to move his headquarters.

[363] And he tries to control, he tries to issue orders or suggestions to the communist forces.

[364] But because they're so scattered out, and Mao's not listening, and they're using guerrilla tactics behind the Japanese lines, there's really no way his orders are going to be obeyed.

[365] The best that Chiang Kai -shek would do was to hold back the promised supplies to the red troops.

[366] So pretty soon the red troops are living off of the peasants or the local people behind the Japanese lines, and they're living off the land, and they're starting to get sophisticated and live off of the Japanese supply lines.

[367] So Mao was building a base.

[368] in Yan 'an for the communist machinery.

[369] And as he was doing this, he was working very hard.

[370] He started to grow apart from his wife.

[371] He was already, you know, noticing other women and probably spending time with other women.

[372] And his wife, Hei Si Chen, was very upset and very jealous.

[373] But to be honest with you, with everything that she'd been through, she was pretty much having a nervous breakdown.

[374] But she wasn't finished yet, and she certainly wasn't a pushover.

[375] She was a very tough woman.

[376] She survived the long march.

[377] She had this incredible ordeal that she went through just like everybody else did.

[378] And one time in June, she caught Mao trying to visit.

[379] Lily Wu, in her place, and she was able to grab a flashlight, and she started beating Mao, and then she started beating Lily, and then Mao's bodyguards came in, and she started beating on them.

[380] Finally, they were able to get the flashlight from her, and they had to physically carry her out, and Mao just followed behind her, humbled and probably a little embarrassed.

[381] So it wasn't long before Si Chen had Lily and others chased out of Yan 'an.

[382] But Mao simply moved on to the next lady.

[383] So Mao and Si Chen had had their fifth child right before they moved into Yan 'an.

[384] And about a year later, she was pregnant again.

[385] Mal used this pregnancy as an excuse to send her to Russia for better medical treatment, like a lot of the communist hierarchy were doing who were injured during the Long March.

[386] So he had her sent to Russia in October of 1937.

[387] So she makes it to Russia.

[388] She delivers their child, who's a boy.

[389] He dies after about six months.

[390] And then Mao sends their surviving daughter to her in Russia.

[391] But Xi Chen has a nervous breakdown, and she starts beating the child, and the child's separated from her, and she's put into an asylum.

[392] I don't think Mao ever sees her again.

[393] So while Mao's in Yan 'an for the first year, he's literally rebuilding the Communist Party from the ground up.

[394] He meets...

[395] Jiang Qing in the summer of 1937.

[396] She had a hard life just like everybody else.

[397] She became a movie actress.

[398] She had some success.

[399] But she decides to go to Yan 'an along with everybody else with all the young, educated, passionate people to improve her life as well as the life of her country.

[400] So one day Mao was given a speech at the Academy of Art. She was there.

[401] She purposefully asked questions.

[402] She got noticed.

[403] Mao went backstage afterwards and they talked.

[404] And pretty soon they were seen in public together.

[405] And this caused a huge scandal with the Communist Party because...

[406] her past was not only morally questioned, it was politically questioned as well.

[407] But Mao didn't really care.

[408] He was in charge.

[409] He was going to do what he wanted to do.

[410] And Mao got one of his men, Kang Shen, to vouch for her political integrity so they could get married.

[411] And Laszlo Montgomery has an episode on Kang Shen on his podcast, the China Podcast History.

[412] You should check it out.

[413] This man was very scary, always dressed in black.

[414] He was like the intelligence person.

[415] lot of people suffer.

[416] He had a lot of people put to death, and he was just a very scary figure.

[417] So when he said that she was okay for them to get married, he was listened to.

[418] So the two were married in a private ceremony on November 28, 1938, after the Communist Party Central Committee approved it.

[419] And of course, she had a promise that she would keep out of politics, and she did make this promise, and she kept it for a while.

[420] So Mao went on building up the Communist Party in this area, but the structure was still pretty loose and he wasn't called the chairman or anything like that.

[421] But everyone pretty much knew who ran things.

[422] Still, the people within the hierarchy tried to replace him every once in a while.

[423] One man, Wang Min, who had just returned from Moscow after being there for years, he was stationed there and he was studying Marxism.

[424] And he pretty much followed the line that Stalin followed, was that only Chiang Kai -shek was the man who could defeat the...

[425] the Japanese.

[426] And he kept calling for everyone to completely cooperate with the nationalists, put your differences aside, focus on getting rid of the Japanese, and then we can figure everything else later.

[427] And of course, Mao's not going to go along with that.

[428] So instead of fighting him openly, Mao very wisely puts him in charge of the Communist Party's United Front Department.

[429] So he's going to be stationed in Chiang Kai -shek's capital, far away from Mao, and he wouldn't be able to challenge Mao for the leadership.

[430] So instead of fighting him, Mao just dealt with it by giving him what he wanted, which would be useless because Mao's going to be controlling the troops anyways.

[431] So Mao was able to deal with Wang Min pretty effectively, but Wang Min pretty much represented one group within the Communist Party, which was to put everything aside, join the Nationalists, and let's get rid of the Japanese first.

[432] That was one group.

[433] There was another group that actually wanted nothing to do with the Nationalists or Chiang Kai -shek whatsoever, and Mao called them the closed -doorists.

[434] And so what Mao was able to do was he was able to position himself right in the middle of these two extreme parties, saying neither one had the answer.

[435] He was the only one who had the answer, and he had them bickering with each other.

[436] So his position was safe because they were too busy trying to convince the other side to go along with them.

[437] Mao was in the middle.

[438] Mao took what he needed.

[439] He needed from both sides, and he kept his position as the head authority.

[440] So we're still in 1937, and the Nationalists and the Communists have to come up with a way to fight the Japanese.

[441] But, of course, they never took their eyes off each other because there was no trust there.

[442] Chiang Kai -shek was convinced that the Reds could still be wiped out, and he was trying to figure out a way to do it.

[443] And Mao overestimated how much Chiang Kai -shek needed the Reds.

[444] I mean, Chiang Kai -shek had a son back.

[445] He escaped from being kidnapped from the young marshal.

[446] He had the young marshal as his prisoner.

[447] But the Communists at this point were very popular, and if Chiang...

[448] attack them again and he didn't succeed, there would be a big backlash from that.

[449] He just wasn't ready for that yet.

[450] So he was kind of stuck there.

[451] And of course, the nationalists still don't have the equipment or the training to effectively fight the Japanese in a traditional way, in a traditional war up in Manchuria.

[452] So neither did the communists either, but Mao had an alternative.

[453] Mao focused on the peasants in China.

[454] He took in volunteers, and he got supplies from them, and he got donations.

[455] He wasn't raiding anymore.

[456] He wasn't robbing the people.

[457] They were giving him donations.

[458] He got some supplies and some money from Chiang Kai -shek.

[459] So he took his peasants that came in.

[460] He fed them.

[461] He organized them, and he used them to get intelligence on the Japanese and their movements.

[462] And then he was able to attack with guerrilla tactics when it was advantageous.

[463] He organized the people, and he taught the way.

[464] So this was the huge difference between what was going on in China and what happened in Russia.

[465] The Russians focused on the middle class, the proletariat.

[466] peasants because that's where the numbers were.

[467] So it wasn't until early 1938 that Mao was able to take the time, sit down, and write about all these different experiences, all these things that he had learned, military matters, political matters, propaganda matters.

[468] He was finally able to sit down and write.

[469] So he wrote The Problems of Strategy in the Anti -Japanese Guerrilla War.

[470] That was the name of the article.

[471] And he was summing up his meaning of the people's war against the Japanese.

[472] And then he wrote about military tactics.

[473] Even though he wasn't a military man, he had been through a long time.

[474] a lot of conflict, a lot of wars.

[475] He'd won, he'd lost, he'd seen a lot of things.

[476] So he wrote tactics, and that was meant for his officers.

[477] It was called basic tactics, and he was giving that to the officers so they would know what to do.

[478] And it vaguely paralleled what George Washington did against the British.

[479] When you have a smaller force, use surprise, use unconventional tactics, never engage until you can win, and when you can't, run.

[480] And on his protracted war, he wrote about World War II from China's point of view.

[481] So 1937, he's actually doing things.

[482] He's getting things ready.

[483] And then in 1938, he's able to sit down and codify a lot of it and get everything written out so he can start to spread it out to the appropriate people within the Communist Party.

[484] Also in his writings, Mao was able to...

[485] put down how he saw the war in China unfolding, and he said it would happen in three phases.

[486] The first, which was already happening, was that Japan would only think offensively.

[487] They would keep pushing the Nationalist West further into China, they would overextend themselves, and they would be surrounded by hostiles.

[488] Phase two would consist of a very clumsy balance between the two antagonists.

[489] The Japanese would be capturing more land, but unable to hold it, and they would be more susceptible to guerrilla attacks, and their strength along their supply lines.

[490] The third phase would allow the Chinese to go on the offensive and fight in a more traditional, conventional way, and they'd be able to push the Japanese back just because of the sheer numbers and that by this time the Chinese would have organized themselves, had gotten trained, had gotten more equipment, better equipment, and be able to push them back to the coast.

[491] And it pretty much happened this way, except for one big difference.

[492] Mao always thought that China's savior would be the USSR.

[493] After all, they were the one who had a vested interest in what would happen.

[494] They were worried about the Japanese coming into their territory.

[495] But it would be the Americans who would be taking on the Japanese in the Pacific and taking more of Japan's attention away from China and pushing it in that direction.

[496] So that was pretty much the only thing he got wrong.

[497] So even though Mao didn't experience any real threats to his position, he did have many other challenges.

[498] Many of the people were disappointed in Chiang Kai -shek and the fact that his forces were being pushed westward by the Japanese.

[499] And those people who were disappointed started coming to Yan 'an and into that province in general.

[500] The ones from the coast were more cosmopolitan, they were more educated, and they wanted perfection in their government because for a lot of them it was all about theory, not about real day -to -day living.

[501] So a lot of the people that came from the coast, for them, they wanted to sit around and they wanted to discuss every possible theory, hash it out, come up with the best form of government.

[502] But it would all be discussion.

[503] It would all be theory.

[504] It would all be on paper.

[505] And then they wanted to sit down and do it again.

[506] Because that's pretty much what I did in college.

[507] Mao wanted them to focus on what they could do with their bodies, not with their minds.

[508] He would do the thinking for them.

[509] The locals, the people from inner China, were more conservative.

[510] And for them, life was pretty much doing, not thinking.

[511] They didn't have the luxury of going to school, reading the classics.

[512] They were trying to live day to day.

[513] Those were the people that Mao wanted everybody to become.

[514] He only thought about defeating the Japanese and what that would take.

[515] Everything else could wait.

[516] This meant for everyone needed to be physical, not philosophical.

[517] Mao believed in himself and his cause, and he felt that one day he would be governing China, and he would lead his people to strength and independence.

[518] And he felt the weight of leadership on him.

[519] So it's not really surprising that Mao became more calculated, pretty much because he had to.

[520] He had a very firm grasp of himself at this time, and he did things with his appearance and the way he behaved himself.

[521] He did it on purpose and he did it for effect.

[522] He dispensed with the daily acts of hardening himself that he did his whole life.

[523] He started to gain weight.

[524] He smoked a lot.

[525] He didn't wake up until noon, but he wasn't letting himself go.

[526] He only focused on the things that mattered, and everything else he didn't care about anymore.

[527] There were others, like one gentleman who was in charge of education at the new base.

[528] Even though he was in his 60s, he still stuck to the Spartan ways.

[529] He still swam in cold rivers.

[530] He wouldn't wear a big coat.

[531] He ate very little, and Mao would expect him and the others to continue to do that.

[532] Mao wasn't going to do it anymore, not because he was being lazy, because he was only focusing on the essentials, whatever it took to get the Japanese out of his country.

[533] It's probably fair to say that a streak of importance or vanity was growing stronger in Mao.

[534] He was becoming larger than life.

[535] But again, the same thing was probably happening to the other war leaders, Chiang Kai -shek, General Tojo, Stalin, Churchill, Mussolini, and probably later on Roosevelt.

[536] It's just something that happened.

[537] These men are put in these amazing situations.

[538] So during the first years at Yan 'an, Mao was...

[539] trying to create a system of government for China with him, of course, at the top.

[540] He talked about Marx, but he liked Leninism better, but he was still molding it to fit China, like Charles de Gaulle when his time came later on.

[541] Mao was thinking his way through.

[542] He was literally building from the ground up.

[543] He wanted China to become classless, and it was clear that something new was coming from what his efforts were, from his writings, from his thinking, and what he was having his people do.

[544] Maoism was emerging at this time.

[545] So the young people are flocking to Yan 'an, and they're enjoying this classless feeling of coming together for a higher purpose.

[546] They were building a new world, and they sensed it.

[547] All this was growing alongside Mao's growing authoritarian personality.

[548] He had always hated his father and his father's ways, but he found himself becoming like his father.

[549] He attacked the intellectuals just like he was attacked by his father whenever he wanted to read books or continue with his schooling.

[550] And he had very little patience like his father for criticism.

[551] An opinion was not a conclusion.

[552] That Mao would not stand for.

[553] Mao's oppression was like Mussolini's when he first came to power.

[554] It was more of an atmosphere that he created than any specific law or policy.

[555] And people were rectified, a word that Mao chose, when they stepped out of line.

[556] And we'll get into the rectification that Mao does a little later on during his time at Yan 'an.

[557] It gets a lot more intense and people start to suffer, but we'll cover that later on.

[558] But in fairness to Mao, some people were treated harshly, some were killed, but some...

[559] who criticized him or struggled against his ways were left unharmed.

[560] So it really came down to the individual case or to the individual.

[561] Those people mostly had to suffer from Mao's very sarcastic, biting words.

[562] Again, he probably learned that from his father without realizing it.

[563] So as Mao was forming this new type of government, he's not going to be held down by any theories from dead men's writings.

[564] Japan was the problem for now, and that was the only thing that mattered.

[565] Mao was ignoring the class warfare and trying to bring together these different social groups for the struggle.

[566] And this struggle was being led by the Chinese Communist Party, of course with him at the head, but it had almost a nationalist feel to it.

[567] But this was his movement, not Chiang Kai -shek's, and he made sure that everyone knew that.

[568] Concerning practical day -to -day matters, Mao, in the area that he controlled, made land reforms much more tolerable than what they had been.

[569] Before the united front with the nationalists, the Reds had been confiscating land and property from the rich.

[570] But now that they had this, they had to stop that.

[571] Rent that was being charged was kept very moderate, and they weren't harassing people for their money anymore.

[572] And these two factors really improved the economy and the morale in the area that the communists were controlling.

[573] But Chiang Kai -shek's attitude towards the communists has not changed.

[574] And even though with the United Front deal, he's supposed to subsidize the Communist Party in China, he sees their numbers growing.

[575] He sees their popularity going up.

[576] So not only does he cut back on what he's supposed to be giving them, but he sets up a blockade of sorts around the area given to the Chinese Communist Party to try and stop goods from going into their territory.

[577] So it's obvious that Mao is going to have to come up with some funding on his own.

[578] He's going to have to start taxing the people with it.

[579] So again, Mao knows that the peasants are his base, and he's not going to do anything to upset them.

[580] So he does eventually, gradually put a tax system into place, but he certainly didn't rush into it, and it was so progressive that less than 20 % of the families paid anything at all in taxes.

[581] And again, within the keeping of the spirit of the United Front, within the government in Yan 'an, even though it's...

[582] Even though he's in charge of it, only one third of the government there is by the communists.

[583] Another third are non -communists.

[584] And the last third are made up by people who are kind of neither one.

[585] They're kind of in the middle.

[586] So it's pretty much as fair as China's ever seen before.

[587] So as time goes on, there are elections.

[588] Of course, the candidates have been predetermined.

[589] So you can't really, it's not true democracy, but there's a sense of democracy in the air.

[590] Now, the structure of the Communist Party wasn't the only thing changing in Yan 'an.

[591] Mao was changing too.

[592] but he seemed unable or unwilling to separate what was happening in his head with what was occurring with the others in the area.

[593] He was older now.

[594] He was in his mid -40s, but even up to marrying Jiang Chin, he still pursued a woman if she caught his eye.

[595] But he was starting to settle down, and he did not live for the satisfaction that a sexual drive wanted, and he did not encourage others to pursue their drives either.

[596] Every ounce of energy was for the party's purpose, and that was to remove Japan from Chinese soil.

[597] So as Mao was toning himself down, he was also keeping in mind the more conservative rural members of the Yan 'an people in the area.

[598] So it was inevitable that the Chinese Communist Party became pretty much a boys club with a few strong but very loud women in public positions.

[599] Now Mao's struggle with the intellectuals from the coast continued pretty much up until the day he died.

[600] For Mao, there was no time for art's sake.

[601] But even after the war against the Japanese, and even after the Civil War with the Nationalists, Mao would have a hard time of seeing anything or anything useful that did not serve the party.

[602] And again, his father's effects on him came out, and he had a hard time tolerating anyone when they made a mistake, just like his father had a hard time with him when he was younger.

[603] And I'm sure we can all remember a time when our fathers are showing us to do something, and we're doing it in front of them, and then we look up to see if we got it right.

[604] It was a very impressionable time for him, and this carried forward when he became like a father figure to these people.

[605] So again, his answer was for everyone to do as he said, not as he did.

[606] So the fiction, the stories, the writing that was coming from the young intellectuals at this time was barely tolerated from him.

[607] And the only thing he really wanted to see was stories that he had read as a young boy and as a man, like the story of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

[608] It's a story about near the end of the time of the Han Dynasty, and people were trying to save it or restore it.

[609] So it was very dramatic, even though there was many historical characters and events in it.

[610] It certainly had a lot of drama in it, and he really enjoyed it.

[611] it as a young man. So it's fair to say that Maoism had its birthplace in Yan 'an.

[612] It wasn't a pretty theory, but its ideas were forged in the face of a superior enemy and with the painful past of his father behind him.

[613] And even though he sprinkled in the names of Mark, Lennon, and Sullen into his writings and into his speeches, that was pretty much just to give his thought more credence.

[614] This was a theory that was his, and it was based on what he had seen and what he had lived through.

[615] Maoism was about doing and about investigating something to figure out a problem and then solve it, not sitting around thinking about it.

[616] He wanted intellectuals to get out into the field to do something to lower their opinion of themselves.

[617] Reading books would not save China from the Japanese.

[618] And again, he planned on doing the thinking for everyone.

[619] During the rectification program, which was aimed at the ultra -left, Mao terrorized any official who could quote the rules of the Soviet Communist Party.

[620] He likened them to bamboo.

[621] Sharp mouth, thick skin, but hollow inside.

[622] Mao did use some of Marx theories, but he also rejected some as well.

[623] And Marxism was no more than lumber to be used in building Maoism.

[624] This allowed him to keep the theorists on their toes and catch them if they got anything wrong.

[625] Only Mao could decide what was right.

[626] Mao was enjoying the success and all the things that he was getting from the United Front deal for his party, but he knew one day he would have to fight the nationalists again.

[627] Were the people coming to him looking for freedom, more freedom than he was willing to give, fight for him?

[628] Would Chiang Kai -shek be able to win them back?

[629] Another complication was the growing bureaucracy between Mao and the people.

[630] As the numbers started coming in, there were more officials that had to be placed.

[631] Was his message getting lost?

[632] Was he losing control?

[633] And Mao wanted the control.

[634] He wanted organization.

[635] He needed the obedience.

[636] If he was to one day defeat the nationalists with their foreign allies, with him still on top.

[637] The signing of the non -aggression pact between Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia in August of 1939 had the opposite effect on Chiang Kai -shek and Mao.

[638] Chiang was unnerved because he was thinking that China was going to go the way of Poland, that it would be sacrificed and split between Russia and Japan.

[639] Whereas Mao was pleased, he thought that the non -aggression pact would allow Russia to focus more on Asia and that he would be able to get Moscow's help in defeating the nationalists once and for all.

[640] But Chiang Kai -shek doesn't really have time to dwell on this.

[641] He's still being pushed west by the Japanese, and pretty soon he has to move his capital to Chongqing in southwest central China.

[642] And this is just west of Hunan, the province where Mao was born.

[643] But of course now Mao is up north of where he was born in Yunnan.

[644] So the Japanese are still trying to end the war quickly against China, so they bomb Chiang Kai -shek's capital as much as they can.

[645] But it's a very mountainous area, and so the mountains with the caves and everything to hide in saves a lot of people.

[646] But there is still a lot of damage from the Japanese bombing.

[647] And of course since this is new capital, a lot of factories and universities are moved there from eastern...

[648] China.

[649] So it becomes a very large, heavy industrialized city.

[650] But soon Mao would have problems of his own.

[651] General Pendei Y of the Communist 8th Route Army decides to put country before party.

[652] And he's not listening to Mao when Mao says, try not to engage the Japanese too much.

[653] Just go behind their lines and grab as much territory as you can.

[654] Let the Japanese focus on the nationalists.

[655] But he decides to not listen to Mao.

[656] And he starts attacking Japanese supply lines and installations in August of 1940.

[657] And the offensive lasted only about a month, but it completely caught the Japanese.

[658] by surprise.

[659] Railroads and highways that the Japanese were using were severely damaged.

[660] Coal mines that they needed for resources were damaged and put out of order for months.

[661] Now this diversion, because that's all it could be, because he certainly didn't have the manpower, the weapons, or the organization to make it more than that, was very successful, but it was short -lived.

[662] But it did cause the Japanese to pull back significant troops that was pushing the Nationalists.

[663] And for a while, pressure was taken off Chiang Kai -shek.

[664] Now, because of this, Chinese morale soared, and the communists were praised by the people all over China, and even by some nationalist troops.

[665] But, of course, the communist troops that participated in this would pay the price.

[666] When the Japanese soldiers focused on them, about 100 ,000 red troops were killed in reprisal for what they had done.

[667] But, of course, the reds would recover their numbers and new recruits.

[668] Now, Central China is an absolute mess.

[669] You've got the Japanese fighting the Nationalists, the Japanese trying to fight the Communists when they can, but they're using more guerrilla tactics, so it's harder.

[670] You've got the Reds and the Nationalists fighting each other when it's possible.

[671] But for now, the Reds have the momentum because they're the ones that are seen standing up to the Japanese.

[672] The Nationalists are being pushed back.

[673] And so a lot of people are joining the Communist Party.

[674] And so the Communists have gathered as much territory as they're going to be able to just south of Manchuria.

[675] But it's still northern China, but still south of Manchuria.

[676] So the fighting that's kind of the Civil War fighting between the Reds and the Nationalists starts to move to the Yangtze Valley, which is in east -central China near Shanghai.

[677] And I'll put up some math.

[678] Now, Chiang Kai -shek knows that something has to change, something has to give.

[679] So he wants to stop the fighting between the two Chinese forces.

[680] And the only thing that he can think of is to physically separate the two forces.

[681] But of course, Mao doesn't take orders from Chiang Kai -shek, even though he promised he would.

[682] And he likes the clashes between the two because the communists are looking like winners, are looking like they're the only ones doing anything.

[683] And of course, he's hoping that if the situation gets chaotic enough, Russia will step.

[684] and help the Reds finish off the Nationalists.

[685] That's his overall plan.

[686] That's what his plan's been the entire time.

[687] So to sum up, the Nationalists are struggling.

[688] Chang still wants to wipe out the Chinese Communists, but they're now more popular than ever, and people are flocking to them, so it's not politically advantageous for him to do it.

[689] Plus, it's probably not even practical at this point.

[690] The Reds' guerrilla tactics are hurting the Japanese, and they're providing the frustrated Chinese populists with some hope.

[691] So the Communist Party is doing well, it's growing, and Mao has cemented his place at the top.

[692] So, I think we'll leave Mao and the war in Asia there for a while.

[693] And what I'd like to do is spend the rest of this episode giving a quick bio of Mao.

[694] It's not going to be like a three -episode arc like I did for Mussolini and the details that I did for Hitler, but for the importance of Mao, what he did on the long march and what he does after is really the important thing.

[695] So I'll just go from his birth up to the beginning of the long march, and then we'll go from there.

[696] Mao Zedong was born December 26, 1893.

[697] He was born in the Hunan province.

[698] Now, it's rumored that his father went from being a peasant to a prosperous farmer and grain dealer by spending every waking moment that he had working and working very hard, and he expected Mao to do the same.

[699] So, Mao attended school for a while, because that's what he did, but he left around age 13 to work with his father.

[700] So he started working for him, he tended to his father's books, but then he was able to talk his father into some more schooling, and he attended school in Changsha, the Hunan capital.

[701] But then events were to take over his life, and he dropped out of school for a while and joined the army during the revolution that brought down the last dynasty.

[702] And then he continued on with the studies.

[703] Mao's coming of age coincided with the end of the monarchy in China.

[704] The obvious question was, who would rule China, and how would they rule it?

[705] How would the ruler be decided?

[706] what would change, because change was clearly needed at this point, and to what degree would there be change?

[707] Mao was one of the many asking questions and trying to find answers.

[708] He wrote many letters and pamphlets, and he thought about it a lot.

[709] He read newspapers, a lot like Mussolini and Hitler, and when he started writing, he would write in the newspapers, but his writing was a lot more sincere than theirs, because he truly was looking for answers, whereas they were using it for propaganda.

[710] And he grew up isolated the first 16 years of his life.

[711] But Mao wasn't content to spend every waking moment of his life working hard like his father had.

[712] Through borrowing from his family and telling his father half -truths, he was able to obtain enough money to continue on with his schooling.

[713] In 1919, he was at the Peking University as a librarian, but eventually he took classes there.

[714] And he was very jealous of the affluent students, but he spent as much time as he could reading, learning, and taking in the world.

[715] In the late 19 -teens, Mal wrote pamphlets, articles, and brochures.

[716] He started groups and writing projects.

[717] In other words, he was finding the larger world outside of what he had known.

[718] And when I was reading this part of Mal's life, it reminded me a lot of when I was in college.

[719] I was exposed to a whole new world.

[720] I was having professors shake up my thinking.

[721] I was reading and finding as many books as I can.

[722] And instead of answers, it just led me to more and more questions.

[723] So Mao was taking the university life in.

[724] He was reading as much as he could.

[725] He talked to others.

[726] They debated.

[727] They lectured.

[728] And they spent hours doing this.

[729] And he was looking for an answer for China, just like everyone else was.

[730] But he didn't believe in communism yet, and he certainly wasn't confirmed communist at this point in his life.

[731] In fact, it was only months before the first communist conference in early 1921 that he was invited to did he even include the names of Marx in any of his writing.

[732] So Mao wasn't only discovering a larger world, he was discovering himself, and he was sincerely trying to find an answer.

[733] And like a lot of the other university students, he thought he could come up with something that would take care of his country's woes, such as the arrogance of youth.

[734] But of course, he did find an answer.

[735] He ended up marrying the daughter of his favorite professor after the professor died.

[736] I think both of them had the sense of loss and it brought them together.

[737] But technically, he was already married.

[738] Years ago, his father was trying to get his head out of the books, and he tried to handle the situation in a very Chinese way.

[739] Even though Mao was very young, he forced him to marry a girl from a neighborhood village.

[740] But because they never lived together and they never spent any time together, Mao doesn't count that as his marriage, and so we won't either.

[741] Without knowing it, Mao was making a name for himself in certain circles, with all his articles, his writings, his debates, his lectures, which pretty much coincided with Moscow deciding that it was time for a more organized effort to bring communism to China.

[742] And of course, as far as the USSR was concerned, if they were the ones who got it going, if they had it organized, they would have a say in it.

[743] Two foreigners, one of them was Dutch and his name was Mering, was sent to Shanghai to organize and conduct the meetings.

[744] So the first communist conference was held in early 1921 and Mao was invited because of his reputation.

[745] So at the first meeting there were 12 Chinese members and two foreigners.

[746] And during the first meeting, a man walked in the room, looked around, pretended to be puzzled, and walked back out.

[747] Now, the Dutch foreigner, Maureen, who was a communist and had a lot of experience with this, told everyone to leave the room right away, and they did.

[748] And sure enough, a couple minutes later, some police came in to break up the meeting, but they had already gone.

[749] So they were able to have a couple more meetings, and Mao was told to go back to Hunan, his province, and build up the party numbers there.

[750] He did that and a lot more.

[751] father had made him keep the books and organize everything and this ability to organize and streamline everything served him well.

[752] He started putting periodicals out, explaining his position and what his party wanted to do for the people, and the number of issues grew.

[753] And soon he had a branch, like a newspaper, almost in every part of Hunan, the province he was from.

[754] But then he went further.

[755] He would go talk to the miners and to the silk workers and to the rickshaw pullers and other laborers, and he would tell them to demand better wages and better conditions.

[756] But unlike other leaders, Mao did not get a reputation as an anarchist.

[757] He told them to be peaceful and to be...

[758] go explain the situation and he really believed in this.

[759] He really believed in making everyone's life better so he didn't get a nasty reputation.

[760] So sometimes this worked, sometimes it didn't.

[761] but it was after these experiences and reading Marx that he saw firsthand the golden rule, that those who have the gold make the rules, and they generally don't like things to change.

[762] He also pushed for women's rights and for better educational facilities.

[763] And then he became a member of the Hunan Secretariat, so he was moving up in the Communist Party, even though it was the local branch.

[764] He was moving up and his organizational skills were noticed.

[765] So Mao has his cause.

[766] He's working hard, but it's certainly not the center of the communist world.

[767] The Dutch communist Mering, who is representing Moscow, tells everyone in their group, because it's still very small, they're not growing fast enough, to join Sun Yat -sen's nationalist party.

[768] Now Mao was totally against this.

[769] and on an intellectual level Mao's argument made sense besides china for the chinese the two groups had totally different goals and views the nationalists were working with the u s and northern warlords to suppress the peasants who for the first time were beginning to have a sense of solidarity But Mering, in charge of the Communist Party, lived in the real world.

[770] And the Communists were coming under attack of warlords and of the right wing of the Nationalists.

[771] So they wanted to join to hopefully get some protection so they would have a chance to grow their numbers.

[772] So Mao continued to stall, but eventually he would join, as ordered, the Guomindang, which was led by Sun Yat -su in early 1923.

[773] Mao found himself invited to the Second...

[774] Communist Conference in July 16th through 23rd on 1922 in Shanghai.

[775] There they would discuss the idea of joining the Nationalists and trying to get along with the bourgeoisie, at least for the short term.

[776] Mao never really gave a decent excuse for not showing up.

[777] The best he could do was that he couldn't remember where the location of the meeting was.

[778] But the truth is closer to probably something like Mao, the country boy, goes to Shanghai and is amazed and in awe and he just walked around the city for a couple of days.

[779] So the second conference goes along without Mao, and it must be said that their numbers are still incredibly small, especially for China, and they have very little funds coming in besides what is given to them by Moscow.

[780] So a short time after that, they convene the third conference of the Communist Party, and this time Mao is there, and he decides to agree to go along with joining the Kuomintang, and he gets promoted because of this, but he's going to be away from home a lot because of it, and he is sent to Shanghai, which was actually a good thing because in the Hunan province, where he's from, there's a new warlord in charge of the area.

[781] And most of what he built, like the goodwill between the owners of industry and the workers, is destroyed.

[782] A lot of the periodicals and publications and the ideas of the lower class looking for their sense of freedom is destroyed by this warlord.

[783] And back in Changsha...

[784] which is the capital of the Hunan province, in the fall of 1923, there are two armies, there are two warlords facing each other.

[785] So tension is mounting in the capital as well.

[786] So it's a good thing that he's not there.

[787] Now, even though Mao's been promoted, he's unable to pay for the different things that his new jobs require.

[788] He finds himself needing office space and office supplies, plus Kai Wee, his wife, has now given birth to their second son.

[789] So he needs a lot of money and he's cash poor.

[790] Parties cash poor as well.

[791] So somehow Mao struggles on, and he certainly can't count on for many donations coming from Changsha, because pretty much everything is closed down because of the warring two warlords.

[792] And in January 1924, the Guomindang has its first meeting, and he's ordered to go because he's now a member.

[793] But because Mao is a low man on the totem pole in the Kuomintang, the meeting doesn't mean very much to him.

[794] But that same month, January 1924, the communists meet again, this time in Canton.

[795] And they're trying to decide what action they should take to grow their numbers.

[796] They're compiling new lists of information and statistics, which really affects Mao because that's his specialty and that's what he does.

[797] And he finds himself being made a member of the alternate member of the executive committee.

[798] So he's moving up.

[799] He's getting noticed.

[800] And they're trying to come up.

[801] with new ideas for funding and how to grow the party.

[802] But he's working a lot and he's pretty much getting tired.

[803] Later in 1924, both the Kuomintang and the Communists meet to try to define their roles in relation to each other and what they want to accomplish.

[804] Again, besides a very vague goal, these two groups are very different and there's no way this is going to last forever.

[805] So finally, in June of 1924, Kai Wee is able to join Mao and bring the kids.

[806] But by July 1924, Mao can't take the faking it anymore, and he wants to break with the Kuomintang.

[807] They're just two different opposing forces, and it's not working.

[808] The right wing of the Kuomintang is becoming more militant.

[809] and they're focusing on satisfying the desires of the middle class over the peasants.

[810] Also, the right wing is getting stronger militarily, and they're compromising less with the left wing of their party as well as the communists.

[811] So Mao goes on working as best he can, but by December of 1924, he's had enough.

[812] He takes his family, he goes back to Changsha, and for the next year, he does nothing outside of his family.

[813] He doesn't write any articles, he doesn't help the communist party outside of his area.

[814] All he pretty much does is try to help the local peasants.

[815] And there are indications that he thought about creating his own base in Changsha.

[816] So he takes a break.

[817] He's physically, emotionally, and mentally exhausted.

[818] So from December of 1924 to October of 1925, Mao enjoys his family.

[819] He enjoys not being pushed around and running around all over the place for the two political parties.

[820] He's lost his enthusiasm.

[821] And according to him, his party, the Communist Party, has lost its way.

[822] But by October of 1925, Mao is back with the two organizations.

[823] For the Kuomintang, he is put on their propaganda department.

[824] And for the communists, he moves up again because he supports the United Front.

[825] And by January of 1926, Mao puts together a very detailed report for the Kuomintang Congress.

[826] But the year before, in 1925, Sun Yat -sen, who's in charge of the Nationalist Party, dies of cancer.

[827] But the United Front that he helped put together still goes on.

[828] And both parties, even though there's a tension between them, they're being held together by anti -foreign feelings.

[829] The people in China are upset with the Russians.

[830] They're upset with the British and the Japanese for interfering.

[831] So that, more than anything else, holds them together for a little while.

[832] And the Communist Party starts to grow as workers are becoming involved.

[833] They're looking after themselves.

[834] And so the Communist Party starts to increase a lot faster than anybody thought they would at this time.

[835] So at some point during 1925, both parties are feeling comfortable enough and established enough where they set up schools, they set up military schools and bases for their young.

[836] And it wasn't long before a young officer named Chiang Kai -shek started to emerge from the pack of the nationalists to take a leading position.

[837] So by the spring of 1926, the communists and the nationalists, they start to move out from their bases.

[838] They're established, they have military forces organized, and they're ready to move out and take on some of the military regimes, some of the warlords that are to the west.

[839] Now, they both have the same goal of united in China, but under their individual party.

[840] So tension is the only possible outcome of this.

[841] So Mao is in Hunan with his wife and children, and he's organizing groups as best as he can in the fall of 1926.

[842] And the nationalists and the communists who are spreading out are getting closer and closer to Changsha, the capital of Hunan, where he's at.

[843] So eventually the militants are pushed out, and order is brought to the province again.

[844] And Mao gives a speech in December of 1926, and that was pretty much the high point of his path of going up the communist ladder so far.

[845] And he followed this up in January of 1927 by...

[846] literally traveling all through the Hunan province, and coming up with this very, very detailed report about the cost of everything, how people were living their lives, how they were getting by.

[847] And he gives this report, and the report, it's very passionate, because he really feels like the communists, and for right now the nationalists, are working there, pushing the warlords out, and his dreams of a classless, almost perfect society is coming true.

[848] And in his report, he finds that the peasants are doing better, the rich are suffering, which he's okay with.

[849] Women are trying.

[850] harder for freedom, and it's just a very passionate speech and report.

[851] It's certainly not the male that we think of, you know, thinking back now from 2011.

[852] So, in the spring of 1927...

[853] Chiang Kai -shek realizes the extent that the communists have infiltrated the nationalist organization, and he finds some of their spies, and some of their other spies he won't find for decades, and some of them he'll never find.

[854] But he realizes what's going on, and he breaks off ties with the Communist Party, and he wages war against them.

[855] So first the labor unions in Shanghai are attacked, and then, again, because Mao is politically a very intelligent person, he works with the warlords, he works with the secret societies, and even some of the criminal...

[856] organizations, and they all orchestrate together and they attack the communists.

[857] In Shanghai alone, thousands were killed, and pretty much the communists in Shanghai were wiped out.

[858] All these groups were working together, not because they wanted to work together, but they were all worried about the very impressive growth of the Communist Party over the last couple of years.

[859] By the summer of 1927, the violence against the communists has reached the Hunan province and all of Mao's peasant organizations that he created were wiped out.

[860] Just a few years ago, Mao had calculated in one of his many reports that there were just over a million communists in the Hunan province alone, but by the middle of 1927, he could only count a few thousand volunteers.

[861] Mao had learned that military might was needed to support political goals.

[862] It was a lesson he never forgot.

[863] By mid -September 1927, Mao and his followers, the ones that are left, are in eastern Hunan, and they're barely holding on.

[864] And by October of 1927, it's clear to Mao that they pretty much have to leave the area or be wiped out, but they're not sure where to go.

[865] So desperate, Mao...

[866] lowers his standards, and he starts to negotiate with leaders of two secret organizations to his south.

[867] And they're pretty much little autonomous enclaves because this part of China is certainly cut off from the rest of the world.

[868] So he negotiates with them, and they agree to let him and his men come down there and hide out with them.

[869] So they march south, and they end up in a mountain retreat.

[870] And it's reasonably safe from the nationalists, but it's also cut off from the communist hierarchy.

[871] Also, Mao lost contact with Kai Wee, his wife.

[872] and their third child was just born.

[873] So in early 1928, Mount's cut off from the Communist Party, and any career advancement that he had been experiencing is pretty much, as far as his concern, over.

[874] But as the next couple of months go by, Mal starts to see stragglers coming in.

[875] So he's starting to get some of his army back.

[876] But of course, they have no weapons and they're starving.

[877] But at least his numbers are starting to grow.

[878] And by May of 1928, Mal's receiving haphazard and confused orders from his superiors to attack the Nationalists.

[879] Now, Mal knows better and he stays put.

[880] Now, he's probably thinking that he's going to spend the rest of his life as a wanted man hiding out in the jungle.

[881] And it's here that he meets Hei Tsi Chen.

[882] She's young.

[883] She's naive.

[884] She's certainly politically naive.

[885] And he's had all these experiences.

[886] And, you know, she's impressed.

[887] And they start living together.

[888] And she has their first child in 1929.

[889] Now again, Mao's getting all these different conflicting orders from the Comintern.

[890] Say he's getting orders from the party, he's getting orders from the leaders, so he decides to ignore them all and do his own thing.

[891] So he starts running his own communist space in this area, and it's about surviving.

[892] It's not about victory.

[893] He's just trying to hold on to what he has left.

[894] So he establishes a government and he makes a land law in December of 1928 that says all the wealthy are to have their land confiscated and given to the peasants or held for common usage.

[895] But he also orders that all able -bodied people must work their land.

[896] And he sets a flat tax of 15%, which to most of these people seems fair because before this the nationalists and the warlords were taxing pretty much everything that they owned.

[897] The soldiers were given land too.

[898] But other people were designated to work on their land for them.

[899] Now, when I say soldier, it's pretty much a euphemism because they don't have any supplies, they don't have any food, and they don't have any money.

[900] But when they are armed, these will be his men.

[901] So Mao goes with his instincts, and he uses guerrilla tactics whenever any nationalists or any other forces come along that threatens his base.

[902] So his idea is to fight when you can win, run when you can't.

[903] There was no pride involved here, and it certainly worked.

[904] Now, Mao is getting scattered late and sometimes wrong information from what's going on in Hunan.

[905] But he finds out that as things died down in Hunan, some of the communists are coming out of their woodwork.

[906] And a new communist leader comes along and he's firing.

[907] He wants to fight and get the revenge on the nationalists.

[908] So he organizes some people and they attack the nationalists in Changsha.

[909] But it's not organized very well, and they certainly don't have a lot of arms, and it's quickly put down.

[910] But as the Nationalists are cleaning up, they're mopping up after they defeat the Communists, they come across young Kai Wee, his wife and the children.

[911] Kai Wee would not denounce Mao as she was ordered, and so she was shot.

[912] The kids were taken away by friends.

[913] They ended up spending years living on the street, barely surviving, and only later are they found by the Communists and sent to Russia for safekeeping.

[914] Mao did not see them again until 1946.

[915] Now, because of the haphazard communication, Mao doesn't find out about this until months after it's happened, but he doesn't have time to focus on it.

[916] The nationalists have learned of his base.

[917] I don't think they knew Mao, his name, but they knew, they found that there was another communist base, so he has to move again.

[918] So he moves his men to another area, and this is going to be called the Yangtze, Jiangxi Soviet, and he would be here for the next five years of his life.

[919] It was a bigger area, it had better amenities, but it was out of the mountains, so it would end up being more accessible.

[920] to the Nationalists.

[921] And Mao would be here from 1930 to 1934.

[922] And this was the location that Chiang Kai -shek was going to send the four annihilation campaigns to.

[923] And then the large fifth one comes along, which necessitates the long march.

[924] So it's here that Mao helps set up the Soviet Republic of China.

[925] He's for a while made the chairman.

[926] And there are stories of while others were trying to take power from him, there was a power struggle between him and others that tens of thousands of people were killed as he tried to hold on to power.

[927] And this is where the building of the Red Army begins.

[928] So Mao's position here politically...

[929] greatly fluctuated.

[930] He starts out as the chairman, but he finds himself outvoted several times, and then eventually he gets ignored by rival factions, and eventually he's replaced by Zhou Enlai, who is supported by Moscow.

[931] Within the first year of Mao being here at the Cheongsi Soviet, this is when the Japanese attack and take Manchuria in the early 1930s.

[932] Anti -Japanese feelings run high and the communists are helped by this with their recruiting.

[933] But Mao is frustrated.

[934] He's out of power.

[935] He's sidelined.

[936] So he takes a sick leave.

[937] But to be honest, his family really needed him.

[938] But I'm sure he was upset about his losing power as well.

[939] Hei Si Chen needed his help as their first child had died.

[940] The second one lived only...

[941] to be left behind when the march comes along, never to be seen again.

[942] A third one died, and she was pregnant again when the march started, so she was allowed to go with him.

[943] So from April to October of 1934, the last year there, Mal's given his leave, but he's pretty much put under unofficial house arrest and watched by the party.

[944] So throughout 1934, as the fifth annihilation campaign is coming towards them, Mao, Haitsey Chen, and their surviving son are living in their hillside cave, and Mao is biding his time.

[945] Next time, we'll go back to Europe and watch France and the Low Countries collapse under the might of the Nazi goods' creak in a mere six weeks.

[946] Britain is alone, but defiant.

[947] And when we do get back to Mao, he has survived the long march, he's now in power and in on, and his dark side and need for control emerges.

[948] As hundreds of thousands of his countrymen and women flocked in looking for freedom, he instead showed them their future.

[949] Now is it.

[950] Welcome to True Spies.

[951] The podcast that takes you deep inside the greatest secret missions of all time.

[952] Suddenly out of the dark it's appeared in love.

[953] You'll meet the people who live life undercover.

[954] What do they know?

[955] What are their skills?

[956] And what would you do in their position?

[957] Vengeance felt good.

[958] Seeing these people pay for what they'd done felt righteous.

[959] True Spies from Spyscape Studios.

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