#1271 - Billy Corben

[0] Five, four, three, two.

[1] Hello, Billy.

[2] We're live.

[3] Yo, Joe.

[4] What's going on, buddy?

[5] How are you doing?

[6] I watched a new documentary this morning in the gym.

[7] Loved it.

[8] It was fucking great.

[9] It's crazy.

[10] I love your use of little kids.

[11] I don't want to give away too much of it, but it's about the steroid scandal involving baseball and Alex Rodriguez.

[12] But what was the choice to use little kids to play A -Rod and all the other key principles involved in the scandal like to play use little actors what kids oh come on fella you're just you're just high dude oh I was pretty sober it's at the gym yeah so you now know the stories you've seen the doc and if people remember the biogenesis steroid scandal if not the movie I think recaps it pretty pretty well the thing that struck me is it like all these guys acted like children they really did yeah and and to boot so you know we've done some sports docs in the past.

[13] We did, you know, some of the ESPN 30 for 30s, like the U. And when you do a sports doc, I mean, I don't want to say it's easy because it's, you know, making documentaries is a challenge.

[14] But sports docs are pretty like paint by numbers.

[15] It's like you interview some players, you interview some coaches, some journalists.

[16] They mention a bunch of games and you show a bunch of game footage, you know, like it's a pretty straightforward process.

[17] With this one, it's not about baseball.

[18] It's baseball adjacent, I guess, but like it's about shit that went down in nightclubs in shady clinics with fake doctors, hotel rooms, bars, locker rooms.

[19] So you got a bunch of guys talking heads in your documentary, but then you got nothing to cut to you.

[20] You got no B -roll.

[21] So I'm like, we're going to need to shoot recrees, you know, recreations here, which is, which is to me, I don't know, it's like when you're doing nonfiction filmmaking, it's fake shit when you film recreations.

[22] So it's like, I'm like, how do we do this in a creative way that, that's consistent with the tone of the movie, which was always called screwball, meaning it was always like a farce, you know, like a Carl Hyacin or Elmore Leonard Cohen Brothers -esque sort of Florida fuckery farce.

[23] And so we just wanted to keep in that mode.

[24] So I'm watching the characters.

[25] So we got Tony Bosch, who was the fake doctor, and Porter Fisher, who was the whistleblower, who stole the medical records.

[26] and started this whole thing.

[27] They were then stolen from him and then sold to, not the highest bidder, but any bidder, and every bidder they were sold to.

[28] And they're talking, and I'm noticing that they had like a very similar storytelling style.

[29] Like, for example, Guy will be like, so I walk into his office and I say, I want my money.

[30] And he says, I don't have your money.

[31] And I said, well, you better get my money.

[32] And he said, what are you going to do about it?

[33] And I said, I'm going to break your net.

[34] And I'm like, oh, shit.

[35] They're so very, vivid and in the moment and and and talking dialogue so we could drunk history this right we could we could edit together the doc and then have the actors lip syncing the actual interview dialogue and all the actors will be eight years old and i don't know like i i've always wanted to do it like way back uh spike jones 1997 biggie video sky's the limit biggie had just been murdered he was faced with this challenge of producing a posthumous video and so spike jones was like okay we'll just do a straight up classic bad boy records circa 97 music video cars Versacei wardrobe girls mansion hot tub but they'll all be eight years old you got baby biggie Baby Puffy, Baby Buster Rhymes, baby a little kid.

[36] Yeah, it's brilliant.

[37] And so I was like, what a great devote.

[38] That was always kicking around since 97.

[39] And then I saw this off -Broadway musical about 10 -ish years ago called a very merry un -or -oh -oh.

[40] Let me try that one more time.

[41] A very merry unauthorized children's Scientology pageant.

[42] Don't ask me to say it again.

[43] I can't say it again.

[44] So it's this wild musical, like very Bowie -esque score, written by a couple of Yale -y.

[45] it's like it's a it's a Christmas pageant performed by elementary school kids but instead of the story of Jesus it's the story of El Ron Hubbard all with like in like a school play with like you know paper machet like sets and and and construction paper costumes and props and I wanted to I got together with one of the composers I said listen I'd like to get the rights to your musical and make a Scientology documentary using the kids and the musical as a framing device.

[46] Because in those days, no one was making, now everybody makes Scientology documentaries.

[47] In those days, nobody was doing it, particularly because, like, the church is so litigious.

[48] And so they had kind of left this musical alone, so I thought, like, that might be a cool buffer.

[49] Like, maybe if I make a documentary, it's a little light, you know, and it's like this children's musical, but we intercut it with real documentary investigation, interviews, and that maybe we'll kind of get away with it.

[50] Nobody wanted to make that movie, dude.

[51] I mean, nobody, I mean, doors were closed.

[52] before I even knocked out like got to them um and I kind of filed again filed that idea away in the back of my head and then um a couple years ago there was that funny viral video of like it was like a scarface school play I don't know if it was like a bunch of little kids doing scar faces like an elementary school play and I was like this is such a it's such a great device and and the problem is you need to find something that it works for like like cocaine cow babies would not have been appropriate right for example a bunch of eight year old kids running around.

[53] It's not Bugsy and Malone, you know, so it's just like, it just like how the stars align.

[54] We just like, I was like, this is, this is going to work here, I think.

[55] It works.

[56] It works.

[57] It works great.

[58] And it's such a crazy story.

[59] And the fact, well, I don't want to give too much of it away because I really want people to watch it because, I mean, I've, I've talked about cocaine cowboys probably a hundred times in this podcast.

[60] It's one of my all -time favorite podcast.

[61] Oh, excuse me, all -time favorite documentaries.

[62] But this is, this is a story that almost writes itself.

[63] It's so bonkers that, I And the fact that it all could have been avoided if one guy just paid another guy or just didn't try to rip him off.

[64] For like four grand.

[65] Yeah.

[66] Like nothing.

[67] Doesn't make any sense.

[68] It's fucking crazy.

[69] And the guy, what a bizarro personality he was who would just tan every day and hang out at this doctor's office in the waiting room telling everybody how great it was.

[70] The whole thing is so strange.

[71] Like that's, everybody remembers it as like the A -Rod or Aeroid scandal, you know, and the truth of the matter is that Alex Rodriguez was collateral damage.

[72] Yes.

[73] In this whole thing.

[74] Yeah.

[75] It was not about him.

[76] Don't tell Alex that.

[77] But it's not about him.

[78] You know, it's, it, it was really the highest, the career of the highest paid baseball player of all time effectively ended over a $4 ,000 debt between this cocaine -addicted fake doctor and his fake tan addicted steroid.

[79] patient.

[80] And it's like, that's what I said, it's like a Florida fuckery story straight up.

[81] It's just like this classic only in Miami absurd farce.

[82] And the fact...

[83] Well, that's what you specialize in.

[84] You really do specialize in Florida fuckery.

[85] I go to your Twitter feed all the time for current Florida fuckery.

[86] It's just, it's just, yeah, it's distilled.

[87] It's just like, it's pure.

[88] It's so much good stuff.

[89] Uncut Florida fuckery.

[90] Yeah.

[91] It's just, it's, and that's what this story is to me. Because like, Miami is just, well, I say the great thing about Miami is it's so close to the United States but like it's it's also like it's america's casablanca mm -hmm like just people kind of flee to miami from like all over the country and all over the world usually leaving some kind of criminality in their wake yeah and you know come here and kind of there and reinvent themselves you know like it's just and then you have all of these criminals there who then kind of baking in the sun you know in this kind of multicultural fucking paella you know that we have and then they just like, and then they start putting their minds together and brainstorming and they hatch just the most inane schemes and scams.

[92] Like, that's our primary export from Miami is just schemes and scams.

[93] Well, it's just so amazing that it's still a cocaine culture, too.

[94] After all these years, it still has a giant cocaine engine pumping out all this chaos.

[95] We don't have any indigenous industry.

[96] I mean, there's no factory where everybody goes to work and then 30 years later gets a watch.

[97] There's no business there.

[98] It's Carl Hyacin says, all we produce in Florida is oranges and machine guns.

[99] We don't make anything.

[100] We sell the dream.

[101] We sell the sunshine.

[102] It's lies that came true.

[103] And so, and even more frightening is the Miami of today is the America of tomorrow.

[104] So it's like there's a lot of lessons to be gleaned from down there.

[105] But it's basically at this point, a real estate hustle and a money laundering capital.

[106] So it's really no different than it ever was.

[107] Everybody likes to tell me, oh, it's changed, it's grown.

[108] I'm like, just because you've built a bunch.

[109] bunch of shit doesn't mean we've grown right and Miami is just like Miami is one of the youngest cities in the country in in your parlance it would be about one person old or one and a half people ago like one and a half people ago you know like it's just we're the we're one of the youngest cities um barely a hundred just over a hundred you know correct me if I'm wrong because I've said this before but isn't there more banks per capita in Miami than anywhere else well there certainly there certainly was um before the you know the the the the Great Recession, when a lot of them started shutting down.

[110] But most of them have rebounded.

[111] One of the clever things some of the real estate developers did was they opened their own bank, literally their own bank.

[112] They had a bank where the entire board of the bank were all real estate developers, and over 90 % of the loans the bank made was insider loans, just to the board.

[113] And then, of course, they went belly up in the Great Recession, and what happened?

[114] We bailed them out.

[115] So it was all their own shit.

[116] So you bailed out real estate.

[117] salesman real estate who loaned themselves money that is wound up being backed ultimately by us by the taxpayers yeah i mean that's the old remember i mean you hear that line all the time now that like you know um the people used to rob the bank from the outside in now it's yeah now it's from the inside out but no none could be truer than than that story and that's a miami story and when the great recession happened the fdic had to open an office in florida because we had more bank closures than any other state in the union.

[118] Because we were like, you could go down there.

[119] I mean, you could buy a fucking mortgage for your dog at a drive -thru in Miami in the, in like the late 90s, early aughts.

[120] And I remember interviewing a guy, we're doing it, working on a project called Ponzi State about the state of Florida as like a case study in the Great Recession years ago.

[121] We never finished it, unfortunately.

[122] But we're interviewing this guy and he says, you know, we were, and this is pre like big short, like this is before anybody sort of knew.

[123] a lot about this and he said we were down here in Miami setting fires and Wall Street was trying to read our smoke signals.

[124] That's why I say like the Miami of today is the America of tomorrow.

[125] Every time I go there, I always go, I forgot how fucking crazy this place is.

[126] You really should have to have a passport.

[127] But I love it.

[128] I really do love it.

[129] It's a crazy place to do stand -up.

[130] You know, I did this joke because I was doing a Netflix special and I was doing it a couple months.

[131] after I did this gig in Miami and so I was using those yonder bags you know what those are where people have to put their cell phone into this magnetic bag you keep the phone but you hold the phone in the if you want to use it you just have to step outside they open up the bag and they give you your phone in every other city it made for a better show because people just sat down and watched the show in Miami it made for literally 40 % of the crowd at any given time was getting up and going to the back and using their phone and coming back in there were just constantly moving around.

[132] You presume it was to use their phone.

[133] They might have been powdering their noses.

[134] They might have been, but it was, you know, it was because I had done gigs before where they didn't have the yonder bags and this wasn't the problem.

[135] But in Miami, just everybody needed to use their phones.

[136] They just kept getting up and coming back and it was just chaos.

[137] Well, it's also a selfish town.

[138] Like, it's basically a town of assholes.

[139] I mean, really.

[140] And so, like, I always say that, I mean, it reflects in everything that we do in the way that we behave, certainly in the way that we drive.

[141] Like, believe it or not, like, people are so much more chill and calm here in traffic in L .A. I swear to God.

[142] And L .A. was famous for, like, road rage.

[143] Yeah.

[144] L .A., like, created, invented road rage.

[145] But, like, Miami, it's such a crazy, angry, weird place.

[146] Because it's like, when push comes to shove, we're in Miami.

[147] Chill the fuck out.

[148] Like, it's all good.

[149] It's a beautiful place.

[150] Like, and it's a shared experience.

[151] The traffic sucks for all of us.

[152] Just chill out and use your turn signal for crying out loud and just.

[153] But that's why they, I say, that's why they call it.

[154] Miami.

[155] It's not our Emmy or your Emmy, it's my fucking Emmy and stay out of my fucking Emmy.

[156] It's just, I don't know.

[157] You seem to love it.

[158] You seem to thrive.

[159] Yeah, I can't really function anywhere else.

[160] That doesn't make any sense.

[161] It doesn't make any sense.

[162] And it's so frustrating too.

[163] I was, you know, I'm a native Floridian and a lifelong Miami and I, for a while, I was pretty determined to like leave behind a better Florida than the one I was born in.

[164] fail big fail dude that culture is like so inexorably connected to cocaine um one of my best friend steve graham was an ophthalmologist he did his residency in miami so he did his residency in emergency rooms in miami and he was there in the 80s during like the height basically during when cocaine cowboys takes place and he saw everything just he mean he had all these pictures of bullet holes and skull fragments and people with light bulbs stuffed up their asses and just he said every day it was just fucking chaos so we call him Miami idea everywhere else the light bulb goes off over your head in Miami we shove it right up our ass he said they had to pull a light bulb out of a guy's ass in one of those ones that looked like a Christmas tree those curly ones this guy stuck a light bulb up his ass and it broke in his ass at least he was concerned about the environment that's like one of those environmentally like sound like good like right there was no environment only sound light bulbs in the 80s.

[165] They were just thicker glass.

[166] I felt like he could get it in his ass better.

[167] That was the era to cut your teeth.

[168] If you were a cop or a lawyer or a journalist or an ER doctor, I remember talking to an ER doctor once.

[169] He tells me a story of 1980, shortly after the Mariel Boat Lift started, which I think everybody's kind of pop culture frame of reference for the Marial Boat Lift is Scarface.

[170] Tony Montana was a Mario Lito.

[171] That's at the beginning of the movie when Castro was ranting.

[172] and raving that he's flushing the toilets of Cuba onto the United States, specifically to Miami.

[173] And so he was working at the trauma center, Jackson Memorial, our emergency room in Miami, and he said he got a Mariel refugee.

[174] These guys would stand on the beach, they would, it looked like Havana in South Beach.

[175] You know, like there's that like coral seawall and it's just like it had a really Havana vibe.

[176] So they would go, they would chill mostly at these flop houses south of Fifth Street in Miami Beach.

[177] where like the cops would literally just they would be leaving after a stabbing at one of these places and they'd be three blocks away they'd get a call to go back because now there was a shooting or something else they would be going there like a all around the clock and so and they would just get in gunfights like literally would just be like they someone would cheat at dominoes and they would just pull out a gun and one guy would shoot the other guy and so he has a mariel refugee who comes in to the emergency room with a gunshot wound and he knew Spanish he was bilingual he said to the guy said you're really lucky because if this bullet had hit you know a few centimeters or whatever this way you would have died immediately you would have bled out right there on the scene died instantly and guy splits a few days later another mariel refugee comes in with a gunshot wound in exactly the same spot where he had told the other guy that if he got hit there he would have died could never prove it never was able to trace it back, but he was pretty well convinced that it was a revenge shooting for the other shooting, and the guy knew exactly where to shoot him and kill him because the doctor had told him where to do that.

[178] But that was like every day in Miami, the lady who cuts my hair for Christ's sake, she said, Billy, I was so naive in those days.

[179] You know, you, she died, cut people's hair, you know, they come over, kiss her goodbye and put a tip in her, in her pocket, you know, and she'd go home, turn her pockets inside out, have our little crumbled bills and everything.

[180] and one day she finds a little baggy of white powder.

[181] That's something that one of her clients had slipped into her pocket as a tip.

[182] And she said to her girlfriend, she says, what the hell is this?

[183] And her friend said, oh shit, that's worth more than gold.

[184] That's the best tip you got you got all day, that little baggy.

[185] But that was just like the culture and it's, I mean, it's nothing.

[186] Imagine that anywhere else.

[187] Like, imagine that in like Nebraska.

[188] Someone tipping you in cocaine.

[189] People would be like, what?

[190] What the, what do you?

[191] What the fuck are you doing?

[192] Listen, it's just like, like I said, it's like America's Casablanca.

[193] There's no place like it.

[194] It's such a strange place.

[195] Yeah, everybody, everything is for sale.

[196] Still, nothing, you know, and like I said, we are about a person old.

[197] That's how far back Miami goes.

[198] I was watching a video about the culture of renting supercars to people so that they can pretend that it's their car.

[199] Huge in Miami.

[200] Yeah.

[201] Yeah, we got all these brickle East a thousandaires.

[202] driving their rented fucking lambos and blowing the engines out on South Beach because they don't know how to drive them just getting towed down the street listen it's a fake until you make it kind of town and there's nothing really to make there you can't really other than a real estate hustle money laundering drugs politics being a corrupt politician there's really no other way to make it there's not a real industry no not at all there's a lot of professional fighters come out of Miami that whole area coconut grove and a lot of aggression a lot of poverty it's a it's a third world economy down there the disparity between the haves and the have -nots the income gap is widest and getting wider in miami dade county than just about any city in the country or any any metropolitan area in the country wow so and that's why i said that miami of today is the america of tomorrow if you want to know what challenges will face as a nation or calamities will befall us in the years to come.

[203] You need only look at Miami.

[204] T .D. Allman called it the canary in the coal mine, the bellwether.

[205] And so, you know, when the election was playing out the cycle in 2016, I was like, all my friends are just like, this can't, this Trump thing can't happen.

[206] I was like, hang on.

[207] I was like, Florida elected and in fact, reelected Rick Scott to be governor.

[208] He is the biggest Medicare fraudster in the history of the United States.

[209] Everybody knows it.

[210] Everybody's aware of it.

[211] It's very well publicized.

[212] We reelected him.

[213] Okay.

[214] We elected him twice as the top fucking executive in our state.

[215] Like what makes you think that the United States of America wouldn't do that?

[216] And I know it's fair to say like, you know, if you're going to be the governor of a state, you should know a little something about the largest industry in the state.

[217] Like, if you're going to be the governor of Michigan, you should have some familiarity with the automobile industry and manufacturing.

[218] And in Florida, if you're going to be the governor, argue, you should know something about our biggest industry, which is Medicare fraud, basically.

[219] I mean, you could argue that he's the most qualified man for the job.

[220] Oh, yeah, we got, like, Medicare fraud is one of the largest industries, has been for decades.

[221] I mean, we have billions and billions of dollars in fraud that just comes out.

[222] So they run it.

[223] So you'll go into like little Havana or Hia, for example, in a municipality in Miami -Dade, and there'll be a little abolita sitting behind a desk, half asleep.

[224] and she'll be surrounded in this tiny little one -room office by little mailboxes, you know, like PO boxes.

[225] And a mailman comes in every day and just puts checks in the boxes.

[226] And they're like, in some cases they've stolen social security numbers and stolen identities, basically.

[227] And some cases, they're just old people who aren't aware that their mail is being forwarded to this location.

[228] and they've just got they I think Miami for a while we had more Medicare payments for HIV and AIDS medication than every other part of the country combined and it's all just old people so it's like you'd have to assume that 100 % of our elderly population suffered from HIV had HIV where HIV positive I mean is fucking impossible you had female patients getting penis pumps that were paid for by Medicare I didn't even know that Medicare covered that I got to look into that and But I don't know that was a thing.

[229] Thanks, Obama.

[230] Do you watch the OxyContin Express?

[231] I haven't seen it now.

[232] But that's all about how they would have the pain management centers and they were connected to the pharmacies.

[233] You'd go to the doctor.

[234] Hey, my back hurts.

[235] You'd go, well, you need this.

[236] Go right next door.

[237] And you just go right.

[238] All they would prescribe was oxies.

[239] Sometimes it wasn't even next door.

[240] Sometimes it was like, go to that window.

[241] Yeah, right next door.

[242] They say, show the doctor your x -ray.

[243] Yeah.

[244] You'd have to get your x -ray done somewhere else because they weren't doing it.

[245] So you'd hand the doctor your x -ray.

[246] He'd look at it and go, oh, shit, it was upside down.

[247] He wouldn't even care to be like, oh, yeah, oh, shit.

[248] You know what you need?

[249] Go to that window over there and fill this prescription.

[250] And we had more pill mills, they called them, in Broward County, which is the county just north of Miami -Dade, than we had McDonald's locations.

[251] And there was literally, like, the Appalachian Trail.

[252] They were coming down.

[253] They were stocking up on Oxy, and we were fueling a death epidemic.

[254] Like in Kentucky, they were pulling over more cars with Florida plates than in -state plates up there because Floridians were like, well, shit, we can't let them have all the action.

[255] We'll drive up and we'll export the shit.

[256] And at the peak of the pill mill epidemic, the oxy epidemic in Florida, seven people a day were dying, men, women, and children.

[257] And we subsist from hustle to hustle.

[258] You wonder, why didn't the government crack down on that shit?

[259] Why didn't they regulate it?

[260] Well, first, our governor, and we deal with this in screwball, is.

[261] is the biggest Medicare frauds during the history of the country.

[262] So he wasn't exactly, shall we say, vigilant or interested in cracking down on medical -related fraud.

[263] How does he get away with it?

[264] Magic.

[265] Maga magic, I guess.

[266] I mean, he, listen, he got, he pled the Fifth Amendment, like 75 times in a videotape deposition.

[267] That was used in a campaign ad against him.

[268] And Florida was like, we're good.

[269] We're good with that.

[270] And he just, listen, And white rich men kind of walk between the raindrops in this country.

[271] You know, it's just a...

[272] Well, sort of.

[273] They got craft for getting a hand job.

[274] That was Florida, too.

[275] So stupid.

[276] It's crazy.

[277] It's cool.

[278] Well, we were talking about it.

[279] Like, how does he not have a guy who can get him jerked off?

[280] Like, there's probably a lot of gals out there that would like to make some money.

[281] You don't have to go to a massage parlor.

[282] The biggest bummer of it is, is now my massage parlor's closed down.

[283] That's the problem.

[284] Where do I go now is the problem?

[285] Where do broke guys go?

[286] Yeah.

[287] Well, the fact that they were filming you, too, like, so the whole thing is so strange.

[288] And if there was human trafficking going on there, what were cops chilling there for, like, six months in some ongoing investigation?

[289] Like, can you save these poor victims?

[290] But human trafficking has become, like, this keyword.

[291] It's like this new sort of, like, fear -mongering kind of a term to get everybody all up in arms.

[292] And now they're kind of backtracking on that.

[293] They're like, well, maybe it wasn't exactly human trafficking.

[294] Maybe it was just more of a prostitution operation.

[295] and why he was a horrible person because he was contributing to these people that were essentially being sold for sex slavery.

[296] Turns out that might have been a bit overblown.

[297] No pun intended.

[298] Of course, that's kind of how they have to sell it, right?

[299] Otherwise, people are like, why are you wasting all this money on hand jobs?

[300] No one cares.

[301] You know why?

[302] Because solving real crime is hard.

[303] Oh, and dangerous.

[304] And dangerous, okay?

[305] So you can go and pick somebody up for marijuana or getting a hand job, whatever.

[306] And you can look like you're being proactive.

[307] Yeah.

[308] But solving a murder, that's hard, man. That's hard work.

[309] Hard, dangerous, and, you know, if you go to a weird little Asian massage place and guys are coming out smiling, like, hmm, it's a, you can start there.

[310] Yeah.

[311] You know.

[312] Talking about low -hanging fruit.

[313] Really?

[314] No offense to craft.

[315] I mean, you know.

[316] It's probably his older fellow starts hanging.

[317] There was a weird law in Hawaii where they were letting cops actually have sex with prostitutes.

[318] Like, to prove that they were prostitutes?

[319] I think nearly half the states in the union have a law that allow police officers to have sex with people in custody What?

[320] I can't make the...

[321] How do you make this shit up?

[322] That's hilarious.

[323] Well, it was consensual.

[324] I was like consensual.

[325] They're in fucking handcuffs.

[326] So what do you mean it's consensual?

[327] Like, what?

[328] That's human trafficking, if you ask me. I mean...

[329] Well, yeah, and obviously, they're going to try to make deals.

[330] Hey, I'll suck your dick if you get me out of here.

[331] Of course.

[332] How is that consensual?

[333] How's that legal?

[334] Crazy.

[335] It's crazy.

[336] It's the ultimate hold.

[337] I mean, you talk about people holding power over people.

[338] That's the ultimate.

[339] Coerce consent.

[340] Absolutely.

[341] Yeah.

[342] I mean, that is, that is more than an employer doing that to an employee.

[343] I mean, you're literally dangling their freedom.

[344] Talk about an abuse of power.

[345] Seriously.

[346] I just, look, I have all daughters.

[347] I'm not, I don't want anybody's daughter to be a prostitute, but I'm also 100 % in favor of people being able to do whatever the fuck they want.

[348] and if someone's in a weird stage in their life where they'd rather jerk guys off than work at Denny's like who's anybody to stop them from doing that the only problem is the social stigma that's attached to it the actual act itself is it's beneficial the person gets something out of it you know i mean there's it's some people have a really hard time getting someone to have sex with them you know it's i don't see it that it's just a crazy thing that we regulate something that i mean george carlin had a great bit about it that's the only thing where it's illegal to make someone pay for it, but it's fine if it's free.

[349] Like, it literally doesn't make sense.

[350] There's nothing wrong with sex, but there's something wrong with people paying for it.

[351] And it's fine if you pay for it and then videotape it for distribution, because then that's porn.

[352] I don't really, first of all, it's a contract between two consenting adults.

[353] If we're talking about small government deregulation, let's allow two consenting adults to engage in a contractual relationship.

[354] offer acceptance consideration as with anything else a stigma as you mentioned a lot of that is part and parcel of the prohibition the illegality of it is what brings the seediness it's what brings the danger right because it's forced underground you introduce all of these elements that don't have to be there they could take place in clean environments they could take place instead of in the black market and underground it could take place in a where you can protect all the participants involved.

[355] But it's been true of liquor, it's been true of marijuana, it's been true of prostitution, which they call for a reason the oldest profession.

[356] Yeah.

[357] The second we introduce the prohibition, it creates a level of danger and a threat to society that wouldn't exist if you're like, well, wait, what if you just let me smoke this?

[358] What if you just let me drink this?

[359] Because I'm in a making a responsible decision for myself.

[360] What if you just let me engage in sexual activity with this person who is perfectly willing to do it in exchange for some remuneration?

[361] Yeah.

[362] What the, why should anybody give a shit about that?

[363] It's so puritanical.

[364] It's so archaic.

[365] It's such a dumb, proven bad idea.

[366] I mean, it's been proven for decade upon decade.

[367] You go all the way back to the alcohol prohibition, to what's going on right now with the cartels.

[368] I mean, how much would it fix?

[369] if they made all drugs legal?

[370] How much would it fix?

[371] I mean, we'd have a real problem in the beginning with access, where people, there would be so much more access, you'd probably, you know, you would lose people, people would die in high -profile overdose cases, and then people would try to make a deal out of it.

[372] You don't think that if cocaine was legal everywhere, that, or meth?

[373] People can get the drugs.

[374] Right, but it's not that easy for a person.

[375] Like, if you don't know anybody who's, criminal.

[376] Like, say if you want to buy meth now.

[377] I don't know where to buy meth.

[378] I know a few Walmarts in Florida.

[379] They make it in the bathroom.

[380] I bet you do.

[381] But that, again, that is Florida.

[382] It's a different animal.

[383] But like right now in America, I mean, I maybe could drum up some meth in a few days if I started asking.

[384] But, you know, I would not have any idea who's an informant and who's going to wrap me out.

[385] But I think the stats show in states where marijuana has become legal, you don't see significant spikes in usage.

[386] Apparently, there's some significant spikes in uses, but the problem is it correlates to a significant spike in population of the state.

[387] A lot of people moved to Colorado just because of marijuana.

[388] They moved to become a part of the business and because they just wanted to be free.

[389] And then California, we've had medical weed forever.

[390] Now we have legal, legal weed, and I don't think it's changed much here.

[391] But you do have, there's some issues.

[392] There's definitely, I mean, I don't think it's beneficial in any way.

[393] way to sugarcoat the fact that having legal drugs makes people have more access to those drugs means maybe there's going to be a few people, whatever the number is, who do those drugs who wouldn't have had access to them without it.

[394] But I agree, but I think it's de minimis.

[395] I think it's like, I think, and the number of people are, who's going to turn around and go, like, you know what I want to try that's legal now?

[396] Meth.

[397] Yeah.

[398] My dentist doesn't recommend it, but I feel like I want, who the fuck's going to do that really?

[399] You say that, but how many fucking people were on?

[400] Adderall.

[401] And the only difference is the doctor's prescribing it to you.

[402] That's really good shit.

[403] That's what the president bumps it.

[404] Yeah, that's what I hear.

[405] Just saying.

[406] Do you think he does?

[407] He's always sniffing and he always, well, here's the, I don't think he's on cocaine.

[408] So, and I always described to people who don't, who don't know what this is like.

[409] People on cocaine start one sentence and then finish another.

[410] Right.

[411] That's what it's like talking to someone on cocaine or the president.

[412] They just, but I don't think he's on, but he's always, you always hear him with the, with the step.

[413] I think he's like bumping at he.

[414] I don't think he's bumping it, but I think he's definitely, well, he might be.

[415] Why am I thinking he's not?

[416] I mean, he's a wild man. But he's definitely got accusations from his past about use of infatamines.

[417] There was a journalist that actually detailed the very Dwayne Reed pharmacy where he used to get this prescription diet medication there.

[418] Air quotes, diet medication, which is fucking speed.

[419] And look, the guy has an exorbitant amount.

[420] of energy.

[421] I mean, it's quite impressive for a man in his 70s who eats shit and doesn't exercise.

[422] And he's always ready to go.

[423] I mean, when he was campaigning, he didn't seem to ever get tired.

[424] He would go and do these campaign events and he would always be talking and he'd be full of enthusiasm.

[425] We're going to make America great again.

[426] We're going to build that wall higher.

[427] We're going to tell those Chinese, listen, motherfucker.

[428] He was I mean, it's an incredible amount of energy.

[429] God bless him.

[430] He's a 70 -some odd years old.

[431] It's amazing that you don't have to drug test him.

[432] It's amazing.

[433] You get drug tests.

[434] But baseball players.

[435] Yes, exactly.

[436] That's what I was going to say.

[437] They're the guys we need to.

[438] And what, I mean, what is Adderall if not a performance enhancing drug?

[439] A hundred percent.

[440] Talk to journalists.

[441] How many journalists will be totally honest about it?

[442] They are fucking hooked on Adderall and they are very productive with it.

[443] Very productive.

[444] I tried it once.

[445] It's wild.

[446] Somebody gave me some of it.

[447] I didn't try it.

[448] I just sat there and looked at it and I go, I don't need that my life.

[449] I've been scared of Coke.

[450] I've never done Coke.

[451] and I've never done Adderall.

[452] I don't fuck with speed because I can't shut the fuck up already.

[453] I'm like, that is not for me. I need something that calms me down.

[454] It makes me feel weird.

[455] I feel like I'd be that guy who, like, does it the first time and my heart explodes out of my chest.

[456] You'd be like scraping me off the roof with a shovel, you know, if I did.

[457] Right, because you're so high energy.

[458] Yeah, I was like, Jesus, I can't do that.

[459] I'm worried that I would love it.

[460] That's what I'm worried.

[461] It's a good concern.

[462] I'm worried I would love it, and I'd be like, okay, from here on out, it's all about me. Which marijuana does the opposite to me. Marijuana is like We can all be cool together You know I finally tried pot Yeah I finally What happened?

[463] I never I never I never tried it before But you know I was actually Years ago I was in Colorado 420 Backstage at a snoop concert Oh geez you have to try it I didn't have to Because I was second handstone Oh It's like It's like it's like when I go to church With Coco I mean you just get You're just hotboxed you know Like I literally Was in the people's Church with Coco for people to understand what we're saying.

[464] Church of what's happening now, podcast with Joey Diaz.

[465] That's right.

[466] You're abbreviating.

[467] Right.

[468] I didn't mean that I actually went to like a Santeria church and sacrificed the chicken.

[469] Although we have done that in Miami.

[470] When he's out of Miami, all bets are off when Joey's down.

[471] But like, I'm in the middle of a story on his podcast.

[472] And I fucking forgot the end of the story.

[473] I literally like I told it and I like ended it.

[474] And then only the next day did I go, I never told him the end of that story.

[475] I fucking forgot it.

[476] But so someone says, Snoop wants to meet you.

[477] He's in his dressing room backstage at this concert.

[478] I go, fuck yeah, I'm going to go meet Snoop.

[479] Are you kidding?

[480] So I opened the door to this backstage area.

[481] Dude, I can't see my hand in front of me. Can't see my hand in front.

[482] It is foggy.

[483] I was like, like windshield wipers in my fucking glass.

[484] Like, I can't see shit.

[485] And I'm wandering down.

[486] And I got maybe halfway down the hall.

[487] And I was like, I can't, I can't, I can't.

[488] I turned around, and I pulled it out the door.

[489] I was like, ah, oh, you know, just panting on my hands and knees.

[490] I was like, I can't do it.

[491] So I couldn't go back to the next year, like two years later I'm back in Colorado.

[492] Because everybody was making fun of me. Because they're like, you went to Colorado and didn't smoke?

[493] They're like, that's like going to Italy and not eating pasta.

[494] You know, I was like, okay, next time, next time.

[495] So I go out and I try it.

[496] And I was like, all I kept saying was, I wish I was drunk.

[497] I wish I was drunk.

[498] I wish I was drunk.

[499] I just, I don't know, it was like a bad, I just, it was so antisocial, I felt so weird, I felt so sort of introverted.

[500] And I was, unfortunately, in like a, they have this pot smoking church in Denver.

[501] Whoa.

[502] Yeah, it's like you go and you can just smoke pot and it's literally in this old church.

[503] They got beautiful paintings on the wall.

[504] It's crazy.

[505] It's trippy.

[506] And so I was there and I tried it and I was like.

[507] How much did you smoke?

[508] Not a lot.

[509] Two hits?

[510] Two, three.

[511] Yeah, that's too much.

[512] Is that too much?

[513] Yeah.

[514] For a lightweight.

[515] If I was your friend.

[516] And I was, well, I am your friend.

[517] But if I was right next to you at the time, I'd say, a little baby hit, Billy.

[518] Just a little baby hit.

[519] Don't get crazy.

[520] Just like this.

[521] That's all I want.

[522] Just, and then let's just relax.

[523] Don't get crazy.

[524] Don't take it when it comes back around again.

[525] It's too goddamn strong today.

[526] It's not what it used to be.

[527] I was in, very recently in Austin, Texas.

[528] And Texas still has regular weed.

[529] It's very good weed, but it's regular weed.

[530] Like, you can smoke it, and you're like, I'm here.

[531] Everything's fine.

[532] California no longer.

[533] motherfuckers right here, these little backwoods.

[534] That, Jesus, that is not regular weed.

[535] That's got a glass tip and that we'll put you on the fucking moon.

[536] Brian Callan had one hit of it last week.

[537] You couldn't drive himself home.

[538] Hours later.

[539] Hours later, he was still here.

[540] Hanging out.

[541] He's still here now.

[542] I'm awake.

[543] I'm awake.

[544] Yeah, he had to get my friend Brendan to come and get him.

[545] Yeah, he couldn't drive.

[546] That's awesome.

[547] It's fucking strong.

[548] But there's also different shit.

[549] So next time I did it, it i did something someone said you know what maybe you should try something else yeah sativa versus indica yeah i tried it second time laugh my ass i was with funny friends okay and i had a fucking blast so i don't know what i did or shouldn't have done or should do or shouldn't do but it was i had a lot of fun yeah sativa is more um you're thinking more it's a little bit you have a little bit more energy indica crushes you you just like oh my god i got to go somewhere and lie down i can't handle this But it's different for different people as well.

[550] But I'll tell you, that chick -fil -a taste damn good that night.

[551] Oh, it tastes way better, right?

[552] Hate tastes great.

[553] I got to tell you, hate tastes great.

[554] It's more ignorance than hate, but I see what you're saying.

[555] Thank you.

[556] I had to explain to my kids while it's closed on Sunday.

[557] We were driving by.

[558] How come no one's there?

[559] I go, because it's the baby Jesus' day.

[560] Okay, if you really want to celebrate the baby Jesus, though, let's hear me out.

[561] I watch a lot of TBN because I'm a lunatic, and I like, I always wondered, like, if the Jews were on television all the time, if we were on television going like, send this money, what would they say about us?

[562] But for some reason, I don't know why Jesus needs a lot of money, because they're always on TV telling you to send your money to Jesus, right?

[563] So I'm thinking, if you really want to do something for Jesus, Chick -fil -A, open on Sunday and donate all of your revenue to Jesus, to churches.

[564] Yeah.

[565] All the, think of the money, just the after church crowd alone.

[566] Everybody would flock, no pun intended, right to the Chick -fil -A and stock up, and they'd have all their money.

[567] They could even have people volunteer to work those days and donate all your money to Jesus, because he apparently needs, I don't know what he needs with it, but he needs a lot of money.

[568] Well, I don't know if the Chick -fil -A guys, the people own it, are of the same ilk as the Trinity Broadcast Network folks, because those TBN folks, I've, I don't think you're being mean by saying they're shysters, you know.

[569] No, straight up.

[570] Yeah, they're just stealing money from people.

[571] I think that Chick -fil -A guy is like a legitimately religious person who really truly believes that he's saving the world from gay folk marrying each other.

[572] Yeah, it's not.

[573] It's not logical, but they make a goddamn good chicken sandwich.

[574] They make a goddamn good.

[575] It's quite tasty.

[576] I tell you.

[577] Again, I think it's more ignorance than hate, but I feel it.

[578] rhyme just doesn't ignorance tastes great it doesn't it doesn't rhyme but but like i don't know and they they had this lunatic on he's on all the time they're paid half hour shows but this peter popoff guy oh yeah the fucking miracle spring water the prosperity yeah the prosperity preachers talk about a fucking bill of goods man sad you know that that guy creflow dollar his name is fucking crefl like i'm guessing that's not his christian name but it's but it's his evangelical I got to think he made that name up right I would hope so that was that that was the dude you tweeted about him years ago that was the dude who was out in the world getting donations because he needed to update or upgrade his G4 yeah to a G6 and I was like G6 Christ this fucking this guy it was going to say I need donate because I need to spread the gospel yeah and so you need to give me money so that because my G4 just ain't cutting it anymore I need to upgrade.

[579] I wish he had gotten a 737 max 8, but that's just me. It's just so amazing that that hustle still works.

[580] The prosperity ones are so gross because they go after people that are so poor and destitute that they can't pay their bills and they tell them, if you just send me money, God will pay you back tenfold.

[581] And I know what you're saying?

[582] You don't have any money, but you do.

[583] You do.

[584] You take that money.

[585] You send it to Jesus and Jesus will bring prosperity in your life.

[586] And then they have all these folks that are giving testimonials about how I was down on my luck.

[587] I didn't have money for rent.

[588] I didn't have money for food.

[589] But I knew that Jesus needed this money.

[590] So I sent Jesus the money and Jesus paid me back tenfold.

[591] And now my life is filled with joy and prosperity.

[592] Am I being hateful when I say that that is what religion prays on?

[593] Well, not all religion.

[594] The poor, the people searching for answers.

[595] Yeah, but I think for some people, there's like, I mean, this is older, wiser me, right?

[596] When I was younger, I would agree with you 100%.

[597] But I think at this point, I think there's some benefit to like having community and having this environment where everybody goes to be humbled and everybody goes to agree that they're going to be good people that follow the ethics of Jesus and you put a little money in the dish and, you know, they have to keep the operation running.

[598] And there's a lot, I think there's a lot of churches that do a lot of good.

[599] But I think for every one or two that do a lot of good, there's these motherfuckers that are just stealing money and driving Rolls Royces and living in giant fucking castles, you know, like that Joel, whatever's name is, what's that guy's name?

[600] Osteen.

[601] Yeah, that guy, Houston.

[602] That motherfucker, he owns a huge arena.

[603] They do the show in the and he caught a rash of shit when he didn't let all the hurricane victims stay in his place.

[604] Yeah.

[605] See, he was hold up in his $10 million mansion at the time.

[606] I'd be amazed it was only 10 million.

[607] Well, it's not his only property.

[608] Yeah, I'm sure.

[609] He had several houses.

[610] It's just so distorted.

[611] The whole idea of it all is so distorted.

[612] But I think there's a lot of community churches that do a lot of good where they provide people with comfort.

[613] You know, it doesn't necessarily have to make any sense.

[614] It doesn't make any sense.

[615] But it provides them with comfort.

[616] I appreciate it.

[617] I respect people of faith.

[618] I think it must feel wonderful.

[619] I don't know how it feels, but it must be wonderful to believe in something like that so devoutly without any evidence, without any indication or proof whatsoever that what you so firmly believe in is true.

[620] But it's the hypocrisy of it that I just can't abide by.

[621] Right, like these prosperity guys.

[622] Like the prosperity guys, like people who used to have a or claim to have some kind of holier than now moral code that now think, like, the pimp president's cool.

[623] It's like, I get it, but like, but your whole thing was like that Bill Clinton was the biggest scumbag in the world, and he needed to be impeached and castrated, and, but like, let's have some consistency.

[624] It's hypocrisy that I can't abide by.

[625] Let's have some consistency as all.

[626] Well, particularly with Trump, because Trump was, this is not a knock on him, but he was a lifelong Democrat.

[627] I mean, he only really became a Republican when he thought about running for president.

[628] Yeah, and he was an independent for a minute, then he was a Democrat again, then he was a Republican.

[629] It's a pure hustle.

[630] I mean, the glass has been cleaned and squeegeed, and you could see right through it.

[631] That's why it works on the evangelicals.

[632] That's what I'm saying.

[633] That's their whole, he's like the pimp Joel Osteen.

[634] Like, he's like, that's what it is.

[635] Well, he found his hustle.

[636] Yeah, and I don't want to be mean about this, but I think it's accurate.

[637] That there's a level of intellect that just subscribes to that kind of stuff.

[638] that, like, I had a friend.

[639] She was in the Mormon church for a long time, and she left the church, but she was really honest about it.

[640] She said, I have a problem that I'm susceptible to bullshit.

[641] Like, she's susceptible because she grew up a fundamentalist.

[642] And so she's susceptible to, you know, to, like, yoga type people, like, oh, the crystals and the light, feel the light.

[643] She's susceptible to all that shit, and she would recognize her susceptibility, but she was being really honest about it, you know, that she's like, I have a real problem.

[644] I grew up believing something that doesn't make any sense, and I believed it wholeheartedly.

[645] And she goes, and that's sort of formulated a big part of how I ascertain what is accurate in the world.

[646] So she's left with these, like, childlike skills of being able to discern what's bullshit and what's a hustle.

[647] She's like a little kid.

[648] I have a great amount of respect for people who grow up in a cult.

[649] and who can make their way out of it.

[650] I mean, can you imagine when you're a child and you're most impressionable and you're steeped in that?

[651] That's all you know.

[652] Like, you don't know that there is an alternate perspective and you're able to grow up and say, oh, wait, there's a whole big world out there and maybe I'm not being told the truth.

[653] That's incredibly powerful.

[654] It's really hard, I think, to break with the only thinking that you've ever known in your life.

[655] I think it's amazing.

[656] It's one of the, probably one of the hardest things that a grown adult has to do is to recognize that the paradigm, this, this, this framework they've been living in their life under is utter horseshit.

[657] It's like, I mean, the Mormon one is so crazy, too, because it's like, the results are great.

[658] The people are so nice.

[659] Yeah.

[660] Like, they're the nicest cult members of all times.

[661] But then you go back and look at the actual framework of the religion itself.

[662] You're like, wait a minute, wait a minute, he was 14?

[663] he's like hold on Joseph Smith was 14 in 1820 when he found golden tablets that contained the lost work of Jesus and only he could read him because he had a magic rock but like that's Judaism and Catholicism it's all they're all crazy mythological horseshit but they know who the guy was like I mean he's so recent too well that's the thing is it you know it's like Scientology it's like well we know it's a lie Scientology is even crazy well a science fiction writer literally was a fail a failed science fiction writer terrible failed science fiction writer that motherfucker never made a second draft in his life and one day said the if you want to make real money start a religion yeah that is his greatest quote yeah and then did it and then god bless him can't knock his hustle people want to buy into that what's amazing how are your themes it's still rocking like in some way i mean it is even after all those documentaries even after the lay a remedy show yeah all these things just just They go out in the world, they tell everybody it's horseshit, and then a brand new Scientology Center opens in Miami.

[664] I'm like, seriously?

[665] Really?

[666] We know.

[667] A brand new one opened?

[668] We already know.

[669] Some people don't know.

[670] The people who don't know are never going to know.

[671] That's what it is.

[672] It's like you're going, if, you know, if you want to put it in a money, like some people have $100.

[673] Some people have $5.

[674] And this is like intellectually.

[675] Some people have a lot of room to work with.

[676] Some people don't.

[677] They just, their brain doesn't.

[678] doesn't work as good.

[679] Just like some people have poor genetics when it comes to their ability to run fast.

[680] Some people have really shitty brain development genetics.

[681] Let me ask you this, because obviously you would have sympathy for someone who is taking advantage of or swindled or the victim of a con person.

[682] How much sympathy do you have for the gleefully ignorant or the willfully ignorant?

[683] Meaning like the information is there, it's available.

[684] Before I give Scientology my money, I could just, I don't know, Google it.

[685] Right.

[686] How much sympathy do you have for, like, the willfully ignorant?

[687] People who sort of, it's like the fucking dude from my airplane.

[688] They bought their tickets.

[689] They knew what they were getting into.

[690] I say, let them crash, you know, like.

[691] Well, I'm a big fan of Willie D. from the ghetto boys, and he has a quote that I always like to use, you got to let a hoe be a hoe.

[692] And I think in that sense, like, you got to let dummies get fleeced.

[693] It's just part of it.

[694] And part of it is there for us to see.

[695] part of it is there for you to go what they gave away all their money oh shit like there's something to that it benefits us like I'm not a fan of these videos where kids try to skateboard off the side of a building and they slip and fall and land on their head and everybody's like oh shit but those videos serve a purpose and that purpose is not everybody gets to do the handstand on the side of the building and survive some people fall and they land on their fucking head and they're never the same again And then they're left with like a third graders IQ for the rest of their life.

[696] That's real, man. So it's George Carlin's bit about, you know, the kid who swallows the most marbles doesn't get to grow up and have kids of his own.

[697] That's how it's supposed to work.

[698] Unfortunately, it sucks if it's your kid.

[699] But it's all of us are experiencing this life together.

[700] And there's some folks that are just, they're going to do a shitty job of it.

[701] And part of me thinks that because there is no utopia, right?

[702] There's no enlightened people.

[703] There's no one civilization that's got it all nailed and everybody gets along together and everyone's totally fine with every single choice everybody makes.

[704] I don't know.

[705] You ever been to Waffle House?

[706] That's a utopia.

[707] That's close.

[708] Depending on how drunk you are.

[709] Because of that, I think we operate under this weird system where you've got to see the failures in order to recognize the failure is possible.

[710] I think there's actual community benefit to people fucking.

[711] up and there's some community benefit to people getting fleeced listen I always say that first of all I don't believe anybody that says any artist or anybody out out in the world creating something and putting it out there for people to react to it I don't believe anyone who says they don't read their reviews or their own reviews I read all of the reviews and I read the bad ones twice because that's where you learn the most they could be right they could be wrong but right I feel like you just it's where you fuck up that like you you learn the most from it and and I think I feel like as a white man in America all the time I have to keep myself in check the way you were describing earlier about how like you know what if you just come to realize that maybe the world isn't exactly the way you perceive it and that maybe there's a lot of other people who have very different experiences from the ones that you have and so maybe the reality of the world is different for those people sure and you can be a more enlightened person by being more empathetic and trying to understand those perspectives, trying to walk a mile in their shoes.

[712] And I just feel like I've learned so much more from the mistakes that I've made in the failures that I've had, certainly than any of the successes.

[713] I have, in my home, I have no, I have movie posters, but they're like art. They're other people's movies.

[714] You know, I have none of my own movie posters at home.

[715] That's at the office.

[716] That's not what home is for, you know, except I had one for a while.

[717] I had one poster of one of my movies that I hung in the bathroom over the toilet.

[718] because it was my least favorite and I just wanted to be reminded that that was the time I took a shit you know like for the whole world to see and I hung it over it's saved there for a number of years it's not there anymore but like I just I just I wanted to remind myself of it you know you're a smart guy you take motivation and failures I mean that's what failures are really good for when you fail at something there's there's a benefit to that and that you go God that sucked I don't ever want to suck again like let me figure out a way to not suck like that.

[719] Look, I always say that with about comics.

[720] Like, when we bomb, that is, it's a terrible feeling, but it's the best opportunity for growth because you realize like, hey, I, I obviously didn't do a good job.

[721] I need to figure out what the fuck I did wrong and batten down the hatches and get this ship right, because I can't have experienced that again.

[722] I became a comedy fan in no small part because I have been to shows where I've seen some of the biggest, funniest guys, bomb.

[723] And I'm like, Jesus.

[724] short of being a soldier or a cop or like a stuntman this is one of the most dangerous self -destructive jobs like it's it requires such bravery and such strength of soul and thickness of skin that like I went fucking Vegas just like 2000 um and saw carlin big beautiful room sat like front row it was weird because like the stage was like a wall like I was sitting against like the fucking stage and I had to look up and like Carlin's shoe would like pass like right in front of my eyeball just above my my eye line and he was doing material for one of his last specials and it was the one I think might be the second to last he had that whole bit about like he doesn't believe in God but like he believes in like shit that he can see and he's afraid of like the son or Joe Pesci like you know that whole bit and he was in this big old God fear and crowd there in Las Vegas and they were not about this they were not about this they were not about it, not one a odor, not one little bit.

[725] And he's trucking back and forth doing it fucking crickets, fucking crickets, packed house sold out, I'm the only one laughing in the room, just me in this giant room.

[726] And I'm laughing and my ass off and I'm all by myself.

[727] And I'm, at some point I turned, I stopped laughing long enough or took a breath to take a drink, right?

[728] And I look down.

[729] And then I look back up at the stage.

[730] And then I look back up and Carlin is right there.

[731] He's, like, hunched over with his head, like, dangling off the stage, like, practically, and I look up, and I practically nose to nose with Carlin, and he goes, thank you, sir, and just walks away and keep stalking the set, the stage, and I was like, oh, my God.

[732] And I saw, I was at the improv at Miami, when they had the one at the, remember, the hard rock, the hard rock, I guess they're redoing it or whatever.

[733] that fucking place is death I was like I was like man you know they say what do they say the hard rock's the floor though that's the Hollywood one though yeah Hollywood that was actually pretty good oh yeah that one's good the bad one was Miami the Miami oh in the Grove coconut grove that was rough that was death yeah but but the no it was cool but then now it's got like they bulldoze the whole fucking place they're supposed to be remodeling and rebuilding it the seminal hard rock like it's like I always say you know what's the saying that, like, in a casino, the house always wins.

[734] I'm like, these Indian casinos are the only place where, like, the house never wins.

[735] Because it doesn't matter how much money you lose there, we still, like, rape their women and stole their country.

[736] So, like, the least you could do is, like, drop a little coin at the Indian casino.

[737] And that's what I would do.

[738] I'd go to play.

[739] That is the only place, that is the only place they have blackjack in South Florida.

[740] So you can go there and play blackjack.

[741] But they bulldoze the improv.

[742] And I was there one night.

[743] Gilbert Godfrey was there.

[744] And I was literally the only person laughing.

[745] but like in pain like I was in pain laughing and it was just brutal and like and I've been in these rooms were like these guys and and I was just like these are the funniest people that I know and it's happened time and time again and I've been to shows where they killed and I've been to shows where they died and I was like this is amazing this is so amazing and it's like the fact that anybody gets back on stage after that after a night like that is just it's remarkable to me I have nothing I have such respect for that I always say that bombing is like sucking a thousand dicks in front of your mother but not really because somewhere out there there's a guy who loves sucking a dick in front of his mother and if you put another 99 he wouldn't be that sad but no one wants a bomb in front of their mother no one wants a bomb period it's just terrible it's a ruthless experience it's um it's it's it just uh rips you down and and shreds all your self worth makes you feel terrible but again some of my best growth periods in my career have come after eating shit it's just you spike yeah you realize like you got to go to work you can't be complacent and that's one of the things that fuels and motivates me to this day i'm terrified of bombing so i'll just i keep it's anything i can use to make me work harder are you?

[746] The six years since I did my shittiest work have been like for me, artistically, creatively, uh, the most productive.

[747] And like I, I feel finally, um, after 20 years of making documentaries that I, that I might be doing like my best work.

[748] Like, but it took that fucking long.

[749] And it took basically almost six years from totally bombing.

[750] You know, for me to feel like I, I hit rock bottom and then have spiked, you know, better than better than before you've done some documentaries with some dangerous people in them you know obviously griselda blanco is probably one of the most dangerous people on earth while she was alive um and in this you also touch on that i mean there's you're a lot of these people are fucking sketchy folks and you're exposing how stupid their activity were does that does that ever creep you out ever get nervous like because you're making these documentaries mocking these people people and you know rightly so but it's uh not cocaine cowboys really mocking is more exposing but this one is like openly mocking this one's really good man it's really funny and it comes out march 29th yes sir friday yeah and uh april 5th on vod yeah and well this one's this one's tough because this is like a fresh wound for a lot of people netflix march 20s no vod i'm sorry theaters march 29th and vod april 5th so like iTunes amazon pay -per -view on your cable box What kind of release you're going to get in the theaters?

[751] Starting up with 12 cities on Friday the 29th, and then, I mean...

[752] Is it L .A.?

[753] Oh, yeah, for sure.

[754] At the Lemley Music Hall.

[755] Oh, three.

[756] And then where else?

[757] I think San Francisco, Boston, Miami, Orlando.

[758] There's like 12 cities.

[759] And then I guess, depending on how well it does, it's being put out by Greenwich Entertainment, who just won the Oscar for Free Solo for Best Documentary.

[760] so they know what they're doing and like I said hopefully people will go see it and listen it I hope it's a comedy I think it's a comedy it's a comedy we tried to make it I was laughed my ass off I was doing chin -ups and laughing I was like what the fuck man that fucking guy the Tanner what's his name again Porter Fisher Porter that guy like what I just imagine if you got one of those guys in your life and he's just stuck in your life like shit how do I get this fucking guy out of my life and the fact that he borrowed money from guy and then did loan money well loan money to this guy yeah Porter loaned it to Tony yeah oh Tony oh Tony borrowed money from Porter and then didn't pay him and that's what caused this whole thing it is Alex Rodriguez has got to be pulling his fucking hair out going what in the fuck and Alex was paying everybody so was MLB I mean everyone was running a muck in Miami like just hiring private investigators running people down Alex Rodriguez actually this isn't in the documentary but um when these convicted felons stole the stolen documents from Porter Fisher, who had stolen the documents from Tony Bosch, they set him up in this whole it's so absurd fucking tanning salon heist where they're like, hey, why don't you go and try this new spray tan color?

[761] It's Trumpian orange.

[762] Go try it on.

[763] And while he's in the fucking spray tan machine, they open his car and steal these documents, which have these client lists of all these famous baseball players, including the highest paid baseball player in the world, Arad.

[764] And so they steal it.

[765] And then they turn around and sell these stolen documents to Major League Baseball for cash.

[766] So MLB has this rag tag band of misfits, this internal FBI, like their own internal investigations division that they created after the Balco Steroid scandal.

[767] They're running amok.

[768] They are seducing nurses, former nurses from Tony Bosch's Clinton.

[769] They are literally in diners with convicted felons handing over bags of cash from some MLB slush fund.

[770] I don't imagine they were going to 1099 the guy.

[771] And I don't know where this cash came from 125 grand.

[772] And what they did was is that the felon who was doing it had a buddy at a neighboring table at this diner with his cell phone recording, video recording, this transaction.

[773] and then he turned around and went to Arod's camp and said, I'll sell you a video of me selling known stolen documents.

[774] Everybody knew these documents were stolen.

[775] So MLB's buying these stolen records, stolen evidence in the state of Florida Department of Health Investigation for cash from a felon.

[776] At some point he gets like freaked out and nervous and he deletes this video off the hard drive.

[777] He winds up selling Arod a blank hard drive for six figures, okay?

[778] And Arod sends this hard drive.

[779] Erod's people send this hard drive around the world to like data recovery services to try to get this video back.

[780] So unfortunately the felon didn't get his second six figure payment because that was that was the first six figures were against the recovery of the debt.

[781] But he got like two, three hundred grand to sell Arod a blank hard drive.

[782] And Arod's dropping money on private investigators who were like having car chases through South Miami.

[783] it was just totally crazy and it's like I always say like you come down to the swamp and roll around you're going to get some mud on you so when MLB came down to Miami one of the guy Jerome Hill the former Baltimore cop turned Florida Department of Health Investigator he says unequivocally that Major League Baseball's investigators broke the law in the state of Florida and should have been prosecuted for it and held accountable for it and never were I mean, it's good to be a multi -billion dollar monopoly.

[784] How old was A -Rod when the scandal broke?

[785] A -Rod was definitely towards the end of his career.

[786] And so that's the interesting thing about, because let's be real, I don't give a shit about steroids in baseball.

[787] And this era of steroids in baseball was not the same as the other, you know, the Barry Bond's kind of era of steroids in baseball.

[788] These were not guys, you know, with necks the size of my waist or anything like that.

[789] They were microdosing.

[790] They were microdosing.

[791] And it was HGH and testosterone.

[792] own.

[793] And a lot of these guys, I mean, listen, their livelihoods are contingent upon their physical performance.

[794] Yes.

[795] And so you've got to play like, what is it, 162 games in 180 days.

[796] It's the most physically grueling schedule of any of the professional sports.

[797] And guys have always been looking for an edge.

[798] In the 1950s, the Yankees were going out the Copacabata all fucking night.

[799] Apparently, there's an Adderall issue with baseball as well.

[800] Absolutely.

[801] A disproportionate number of baseball players compared to the general population on Adderall.

[802] That's what I said.

[803] It's a performance of course.

[804] Enhancing drug.

[805] But you had guys like Mickey Mantle and Whitey Ford and Billy Martin partying all night at the Copacabana.

[806] They have to make a 1 p .m. game, maybe even a double header.

[807] They're doing greenies.

[808] They're doing amphetamines.

[809] It's always been a part of baseball's finding that edge.

[810] Now you got guys who are just looking to maybe recover a little faster, you know, from injuries or fatigue.

[811] You're looking for guys who are looking to.

[812] maintain peak performance for a longer period than their bodies might have otherwise allowed.

[813] Is it that big of a deal?

[814] I don't know.

[815] It's not.

[816] And it's a weird deal.

[817] It's a weird thing that we have an issue with.

[818] Look, if they did the same sort of stringent testing with NFL players, you'd find out that everyone's on steroids.

[819] That's just a fact.

[820] You don't get people that big, and they do catch them every now and then.

[821] But I feel like it's like one of those things where like, you know how the drug cartels, they'll let some drug drug shipments get busted so that the other ones will get through.

[822] I almost feel like that's what they do with NFL players to get caught.

[823] Like, oh, look, we're testing.

[824] We caught somebody.

[825] Dude, that's what, that's what this was with A -Rod.

[826] You know, Bud's C -League is the steroid commissioner.

[827] Full stop.

[828] That's the bottom line.

[829] His tenure was marked by the famous You know, Barry Bond's.

[830] Or, yeah.

[831] Well, Mark Warr and Sammy Sosa.

[832] Absolutely.

[833] So he, he, knowingly, I believe, exploited and profited from that era of baseball that really saved them after 94 players strike.

[834] I mean, baseball could have...

[835] Let me just look at the size of those guys.

[836] Where they started.

[837] Yeah.

[838] Yeah.

[839] I mean, so many of them.

[840] We literally morphed them in the documentary.

[841] We morphed them from like a before and after.

[842] Because they're...

[843] They turn into fucking baseball monsters, smacking balls to Guantanamo, for Christ's sake.

[844] You know what's interesting to me is that some people recovered from that stuff and some people did not.

[845] Jose Canseco never recovered.

[846] He never recovered in the public eye.

[847] And that's why he's so pissed.

[848] Like that's why the, it's fucked up.

[849] When you're the pioneer in something, people really, and dude, they had a street named after him in Miami.

[850] Yeah.

[851] And they quietly took that shit down in the middle of the night after decades of naming that street from.

[852] He was just totally humiliated.

[853] I think it's also because he ratted out a lot of eyes.

[854] But so did Arad.

[855] Arod leaked names to try to distract or diffuse attention.

[856] But he didn't put out a book.

[857] Yeah, but like...

[858] It's the public nature of Canseco's book.

[859] It's like, I don't know.

[860] I'm just guessing.

[861] But his book was like, his book turned out to be like the Jose Canseco's book about stories turned out to be like the steel dossier of baseball.

[862] It's like everybody thinks it's pissed and thinks it's a bunch of bullshit.

[863] And then over time, it's slowly proven true.

[864] And at the end, there's a P -Tape.

[865] Yes.

[866] I think that metaphor holds.

[867] Yeah, well, that is a good way of looking at it too, right?

[868] Because, like, think about the outrage when Clinton got his dick sucked by Monica Lewinsky and compare it to Donald Trump having at least two women that we know about where he paid off that he fucked.

[869] And people like, eh.

[870] Ask the evangelicals where they stand on all that.

[871] It was before the man found Christ.

[872] That's what a lot of them say.

[873] When did you find Christ?

[874] I was watching a documentary where there was a guy who was some Christian guy who was saying, this all of these accusations or before he was born because he was born in the eyes of Christ when he accepted Christ into his life when well I guess when he's running for president but that's when he paid off stormy yeah but the night before the yeah but after that then he became Jesus after so after that oh yeah paid off stormy like when when he paid off stormy like when did he pay off the day before the election I feel bad for her too because I feel like she thought like this is she going to go all in on this and then she lost the court case against him so she owes his legal fees 300 grand this is crazy like where the fuck is she going to get that and now she's trying to do stand up yeah i mean she's gonna a lot that's a lot of hand drops um she's you know enough about robert craft she's trying to do stand up i think no she's not yes she is in houston texas they were calling her the queen of clap back i that is queen of the clap no no no clap back oh okay you know like clap back like she's yeah but how say something bad about her she's going to come after you even worse Really?

[875] That clapback expression, like someone, Kim Kardashian claps back at the critics.

[876] Like, that is the dumbest.

[877] I cannot wait for that one to fucking dry up and go away.

[878] Not Kim Kardashian, that expression.

[879] Like Twitter insult comic kind of schick?

[880] Well, it's just clap back.

[881] They're calling it when someone has something to say about someone saying something about them.

[882] That's clapping back.

[883] Right, but how does that translate to Stormy Daniels doing stand -up?

[884] How can you do stand -up out of clapbacks?

[885] Well, they were calling her the queen of clapback that she's going to do stand -up again.

[886] I mean, who knows?

[887] Maybe she's hilarious.

[888] Maybe she's going to take it seriously.

[889] I mean, you never fucking know.

[890] I mean, as a comic, I leave the door open for all possibilities.

[891] But, I mean, it just means to me that she got this situation where she thought, she probably was told by everybody, look, hey, you're going to win this.

[892] He's going to pay you off.

[893] You're going to, everyone's going to know that you told the truth and people are going to pay for your interviews.

[894] Man. But this is America.

[895] leaves are broke supply and demand economy like if she can make more money stand -up comedy's hard work if she can make more money just spending on a pole yeah but like why because she's got probably got bad hips she's like in her 50s or something isn't she i don't know i think she's she's an older lady but she's not young man you know she's not young how old she she's only 40 oh jesus okay i'm sorry stormy don't clap back at me I thought she was older.

[896] Hard life.

[897] I, Dios meo.

[898] As we say in Miami.

[899] Hard life, bro.

[900] But it's just, but that thing is that we, everyone's so used to it now.

[901] It's like not that big a deal.

[902] It's like, even if a new accusation came out, people would be like, eh.

[903] Like, like, remember the New York Times report about Trump was talking about shady business dealings?

[904] And they thought, I mean, they spent years.

[905] Career ender, yeah, totally.

[906] Didn't do a damn thing.

[907] In and out.

[908] just off a shoulder it's problematic and i'll tell you why um it's what i call the the new american values it's to me what what i think screwball is about in the end meaning like yeah it's fun and it's funny and it's a forest it's a romp uh you laugh but i think that there's a conversation to be had about what i call the new american values which are lie cheat and steal and get rich or get ahead.

[909] And these are values that we're teaching our children now.

[910] Not honesty, integrity, tell the truth, do on to others as you'd have done to you, the Golden Rule.

[911] We're now showing them be a bully.

[912] Lie, cheat, and steal, and you could be the biggest, highest paid baseball player of all time.

[913] Lie, cheat, and steel, and you could be the commissioner of Major League baseball lie cheat and steel and you two kids can be president of the united states and i think this toxicity of the new american values is going to do damage for generations and we're not going to be able to fully comprehend or understand or analyze the damage it's done for some for some time and it was like after clinton clinton redefined what sex meant and we were adults you could laugh at it But the truth is, is that he said oral sex wasn't sex.

[914] Right.

[915] Um, and we saw the spike in sexually transmitted diseases among teenagers and young people mostly through oral sex because they said, oh, well, the president said.

[916] That absolutely.

[917] Yeah.

[918] And that, talk about a health, yeah.

[919] It was a, it was a legitimate public health crisis.

[920] You, you saw following the Clinton Lewinsky scandal, you saw an increase in sexually transmitted diseases.

[921] through oral sex amongst younger people because the president it's hard for us because we see the president right now is sort of a comic you know he's sort of a it's a reality show president we know it's bullshit but what do you tell kids this is the president of the United States is that what it was or was it because there was so much discussion about him getting his dick sucked that more people wanted to suck dicks and get their dick sucked I think without question obviously the size and scale of the coverage unquestionably.

[922] I probably got people warning.

[923] Legitimately.

[924] But people, for a while people thought, when I say people, I'm talking about younger people.

[925] Developing minds, impressionable youths were under the impression that you could not get a sexually transmitted disease through something that wasn't sex.

[926] And the president reset those values.

[927] Just like this president, I feel, is re -calibrating our values.

[928] And I think that that's that's what's most I mean, other than the potential of nuclear war.

[929] I think that is what is most dangerous and what could cause the most long -term damage from this is these new American values, lie, cheat, and steel.

[930] I was literally at a Q &A with one of the kids, the little kid, Brian Blanco, who plays Tony Bosch in the movie, the lab coat and the hair.

[931] He's amazing.

[932] He's a great kid.

[933] He's hilarious, and so they're all great.

[934] And he said, I was at a Q &A.

[935] And I was like, you know, what lessons do we learn from this movie?

[936] And he, this is where I got this from.

[937] he interrupted he's 10 years old And he's like oh I know I know I'm like Brian you don't have to raise your hand It's your Q &A too dude You're on the panel And he's like lie cheat and steal and to win Or something like that And I was like oh fuck This kid's 10 years old You know and I'm like This is what he thinks The values of America are Well that's interesting because in the documentary One of the big things The news clippings is George Bush discussing steroids And baseball in 2004 Was it 2004?

[938] State of the Union.

[939] Yeah.

[940] And he was talking about how it sends the wrong message.

[941] That cheating in baseball sends the wrong message to the youth of America.

[942] And I thought that was silly at the time.

[943] I was like, ah, what fucking message.

[944] But the reality is those things do have a ripple effect.

[945] And if you tell people that the way to become this superstar athlete is not just through hard work and dedication, but also through taking things.

[946] that are illegal because they're going to pump you up and give you an edge on your competitors.

[947] We're a shortcut society.

[948] So we look for those tricks of the trade.

[949] Sure.

[950] And we don't believe necessarily when people do achieve something naturally or via hard work.

[951] We go, well, what did he do?

[952] What did she do?

[953] What did she really do?

[954] The problem is some of those shortcuts work.

[955] Like Adderall, like steroids, they fucking work, man. You know, the UFC has had a giant problem with them for a long time.

[956] And it was exacerbated by this time period in the early 2000s where they allowed people, I guess it wasn't quite the early 2000s, it was actually later in the 2000s, where they allowed people to take exogenous testosterone under therapeutic use exemptions.

[957] They would call it TRT.

[958] And so this famous, like the Vitor Belfort era, when he was on TRT, just started smashing people because he looked so ridiculous.

[959] He was so jacked.

[960] And that during that time period, They fell into this, there was a sort of a really a piss -poor way of justifying it.

[961] The justification was these people have low testosterone.

[962] Low testosterone is a disease.

[963] If we give them testosterone, they can perform better.

[964] But the way around that was these guys were actually on steroids.

[965] The steroids crashed their testosterone.

[966] They'd go and get a test.

[967] Look, my testosterone's low.

[968] Like, yep, you need testosterone.

[969] And then they would take steroids, you know, essentially.

[970] not steroids, but testosterone, which has, you know, similar effects.

[971] And then eventually the UFC said, look, we fucked up.

[972] We're going to go 100 degrees the other, 180 degrees the other way, and hire Usada.

[973] And we're going to crawl up everyone's ass with a microscope.

[974] We're going to find out what the fuck is up.

[975] And, man, bodies changed, careers, crumbled.

[976] I mean, we saw so many people get busted in the beginning.

[977] So many people got caught and still getting a T .J. Dillishaw just got caught, who's a Bannonweight champion.

[978] and just relinquished his belt.

[979] For some, I don't know what he got caught for.

[980] I don't know what the circumstances were.

[981] Some people have been caught for accidental contamination because there's a lot of different supplements that you could buy.

[982] Even creatine, like standard stuff that's totally legal to take.

[983] But they're contaminated because you're buying them from cheap sources.

[984] They make them in China and what have you.

[985] That was the problem with this biogenesis thing.

[986] First of all, Tony Bosch, who wore a lab coat, had a stethoscope.

[987] It's hilarious.

[988] Called himself Dr. T. Yeah.

[989] Had said Dr. Tony Bob.

[990] Well, he's a doctor in Belize, which I think I am, too.

[991] I have to check my email.

[992] He went to the same medical school as Dr. Pepper and Dr. Dre.

[993] Well, I'm a ordained minister, just so you know.

[994] I've actually married people.

[995] That's legal.

[996] Yeah, I'm a legally ordained minister.

[997] I got it online.

[998] Tony Bosch, despite having attended what one of our interview subjects refers to as the Belize School of the Medical and Performing Arts, okay, to get his doctorate.

[999] he was never a licensed physician in the United States and he was yet he had legitimate prescription pads and DEA numbers from doctors that he could then prescribe these drugs and in fact wanted to go one step further like we were talking about with the pill mills and actually sell them in -house to his clients and was buying them in the black market from some dude in a suburb of Miami making the shit in his garage so that's problematic well you know here's one that's problematic that's kind of weird doctors of chiropractic like you know they don't go to medical school and they some of them look check this is check if this is true can chiropractors write prescriptions i don't think that they can i think some of them really i think in some places they can write prescriptions is that like in tennessee or like so where is that a thing says no says they can't i guess some of them could be doctors though no highly doubt you need an adjustment you're right you're feeling right no i don't ever how about that um i went to a chiropractor i've been to them yeah i thought they were real until i started reading about how it actually got fun and a lot of people out there that a chiropractors say i do a lot of good for people i'm sure you do there's a lot of good therapies that chiropractors also offer so do churches but the the actual evidence that manipulating people especially your neck that it does any good at all there's none and it actually has killed people people have died from having their neck manipulated well i i felt a lot lighter after the chiropractor by about four hundred dollars actually when I yeah it's true I mean they do a lot of shit cold laser and massage and stuff that does work but if you look at the you know it was invented by a guy who was a magnetic healer who was murdered by his own son his own son murdered him ran over him with a car and then took over the business sounds like a sonhai musical it does crazy it's and it was all in like the 1800s and we've had it for so long that people most people didn't look into it and say well what is this what is the science of this this guy thought that you could cure everything including blindness leukemia, cancer, from adjusting your back.

[1000] This was his premise was based on.

[1001] How's that going?

[1002] It came from a seance.

[1003] And now there's no more blindness or leukemia or cancer.

[1004] It's all gone, bro.

[1005] But there are still chiropractors that buy into that same idea that they can cure things, that it's not just you're dealing with pain.

[1006] Right.

[1007] And if they manipulate you, they can relieve pain.

[1008] No, that they can cure you of certain ailments because of your spine being aligned incorrectly.

[1009] They're going to adjust it.

[1010] It's popping you, just like this.

[1011] is.

[1012] Just like you do that with your fingers when you crack your knuckles.

[1013] That's the same thing.

[1014] It's like a release of nitrogen or something.

[1015] I don't, not exactly show what causes the crap, but like legitimately.

[1016] Yeah, but I don't see, do you see anything?

[1017] No, okay, maybe I'm wrong with them being able write prescriptions.

[1018] I'll tell you that Tony Bosch could not write prescriptions, but he was doing it.

[1019] He was doing it anyway, or irregardless, as we say in Miami.

[1020] Well, he had his dad doing it, right?

[1021] Irregardless.

[1022] Irregardless.

[1023] We say irregardless in Miami because we're illiterate, but I use it irironically, though.

[1024] So, you know, but I think he might have swiped a pad from his doctor, from his father, who was a legitimate, a legitimate doctor.

[1025] So he was forging his dad's?

[1026] Yeah, and he had, he had a, you know, what they called medical directors.

[1027] That's part of these.

[1028] The whole anti -aging scheme really prospered in the state of Florida, as you can imagine.

[1029] And in no small part because there's a lot of doctors who from all over the country retire to Florida, but they are still medical doctors.

[1030] So you have guys like Tony Bosch, entrepreneurial, with an entrepreneurial spirit who want to open up these anti -aging clinics and they knew what's called a medical director.

[1031] So they go to a legitimate doctor and they say, hey, kind of rent us.

[1032] We'll put your name on the business.

[1033] You'll get a cut of the action.

[1034] And they're basically renting out their prescription pad and DEA number so that guys, you know, these other operators who in this case identify themselves falsely as doctors can, you know, exploit that power of.

[1035] the prescription pad.

[1036] And so that's what was happening here.

[1037] And more problematic, he started treating high school kids.

[1038] Oh, no. And whose parents and baseball coaches had heard about him through word of mouth and brought these kids to him to get an advantage.

[1039] You know, we have a big immigrant community, obviously, in Miami.

[1040] We have a lot.

[1041] It's a huge baseball community.

[1042] We have people who are smuggled specifically into the country for the purpose of playing baseball and signing those big guaranteed contracts right out of high school and so you have parents and kids and coaches looking for every advantage who are going to this guy they weren't hearing about him in the high school locker room these were coaches and parents who were bringing their parents to you might say a guy who they presumed was a real doctor but nonetheless looking to cheat to game the system and that's problematic when you have this guy who knows he knows he's not a doctor but he was a true believer in himself he really thought he was helping people and listen the proofs of the pudding this guy could not exploit traditional advertising he wasn't doing billboards and TV ads he just he was strictly word of mouth so he had clients who were getting results including nearly a hundred cops who were referring their friends to his clinics so these parents came to him looking for help help for their kids um and those kids are are victims yeah well that's for sure this the last thing you want to do to a kid especially one that doesn't have any sort of a real hormonal ailment is to inject exogenous hormones into their body.

[1043] It just fucks their brain up, their emotions.

[1044] Their entire endocrine system crashes afterwards.

[1045] It causes depressions.

[1046] It leads to suicide in a lot of kids.

[1047] And depending what you're doing to them, you could also be risking their offspring, potential future offspring.

[1048] For sure.

[1049] Yeah, you could be killing their sperm.

[1050] Yeah.

[1051] Yeah, you definitely can.

[1052] You have a disproportionate amount of, I mean, in the steroid use population of autism, childhood cancer, just horrible, horrible things that happened to the children of people who are on some of these drugs.

[1053] I think a lot of the folks that are looking at it in terms of a career in baseball or in any other sport where they could benefit, they go, hey, this is the price that I have to pay in order to excel at this extraordinary avenue for financial gain.

[1054] Well, Tony Vosch was treating Manny Ramirez.

[1055] and when he was in Boston and low testosterone you know he was getting on in the years and Bosch started treating him put him out of protocol as he called it take the you know X amount of Y substance etc at this time each day microdosing as you said so it wouldn't in the event that they were randomly tested that wouldn't be detected I don't know if that worked or not or he was giving them placebos on certain days I don't know what the the scheme was but manny starts to come back again i don't know if it was psychosomatic or he really was actually performing better and that's when he got his dodgers deal was like a 40 million dollar deal in theoretically thanks in no small part to this guy who was you know who was juicing him and that's and then manny gets busted piss is dirty after a surprise test before a game because according to bosh he didn't take the micro dose on precisely the instructions, you know, that he had given him, and so piss dirty, and as a result of the, what you would assume was negative publicity from Manning getting busted and them connecting it to Tony Bosch in Miami, that was the word of mouth that got Arod's cousin to come to Bosch and say, hey, you should meet my cousin.

[1056] He's playing this game in Tampa, I'll come up and meet him, and it turns out that it's Alex Rodriguez.

[1057] It's just amazing that someone who made as much money as Alex Rodriguez has knuckleheads like that who can't see the future because if I was his friend I'd be like hold on hold on hold on he's already been busted dude listen to me they're looking at him they're watching in 09 yeah meanwhile they weren't even weren't even they don't care listen baseball is like everything else in American life now including politics it's the WWE okay when Bud C League the steroid commissioner was on his way out the door literally on the eve of retirement and he's like you know what I need to look like I'm doing something about this because I got a great big fat asterisk by my name in the record books here like all these players do with the steroid era I need to look like I did something on my way out the door so he calls a second in command Rob Manfred and says let's do something about this and they go after the biggest scalp you can in the game Alex Rodriguez yeah and so when they needed Alex as the heel that was the storyline yeah okay so they nail Alex all right you know the Vince McMahon of the game Bud C -League goes oh I took care of them retires Rob Manfred who was in charge of this whole botched you know quasi -legal operation investigation biogenesis and Alex gets the the top gig and is now the commissioner of baseball and he goes you know it would be a good storyline now what if I bring Arod and Pete Rose back as commentators and he did for a while.

[1058] Arod and Pete Rose were working together.

[1059] By the way, they were damn good.

[1060] They were damn good television, dude.

[1061] And as commentators, until Pete Rose got in trouble again, they axed him.

[1062] But now you got Rob Manfred, who basically put it all on the line.

[1063] And Arod, who put it all on the line, fighting each other in this battle of the legacies with Bud Sealing.

[1064] Now they're posing with J -Lo out at nightclubs and stuff because that's the new storyline.

[1065] The storyline, you know, one day you're the hero.

[1066] the next day you're the hero he'll hear it's like whatever whatever and and they're just selling everybody this this bill of goods that this is all real you know you really have a picture that was him with a minotaur's body centaur centaur is that real so this is I don't know if this is apocryphal or real I know people who have been in the apartment and claim to have seen it the problem is I don't I don't know if they're telling the truth or they're like kind of like fueling the you know the apocryphal tale so yeah I'm I want to believe I want to believe That's the problem We all want to believe So I mean Spoiler alert We fucking we did it We put it in there With the little kids face on it Amazing, just hilarious The way you did it is hilarious The kid who plays Arod is a fucking Amazing It's the light eyes He's amazing It's just His like when he's I don't want to give too much of a way But making the funny faces In court it's like Fucking hilarious I mean it's so good I was just laughing I was like this is so ridiculous and to know that this is all something that really happened.

[1067] And I have to tell you, we've been at this making documentaries for like 20 years now almost.

[1068] And so this is the most, as ridiculous and fucking absurd as this is, it is the most meticulously research documentary we have ever done.

[1069] Why, we're dealing with some very powerful litigious individuals and organizations.

[1070] So we knew we had to get this 100 % right.

[1071] Not to mention, the way we shot this, on set on location for 10 days.

[1072] We had the playback on the set.

[1073] So we were committed to this dialogue, right?

[1074] And so we had to make sure we went and obtained transcripts that were never released publicly of sworn testimony in the case to be able to cross -check some of the stuff that we were told and we're going to put in the documentary.

[1075] And we just, I mean, we actually shot at some of the actual locations in Miami where these real events took place.

[1076] The Fountain, live at the Fountain Blue Hotel, you know, the nightclub, the sports grill in South Miami, the Rich Carlton, Kibiskin.

[1077] We actually took the kids there, put the facial hair on, put the fucking cop uniforms on, and the pinstripes on, and we just filmed them all over town.

[1078] What's funny about it in Miami, no one looked twice at us.

[1079] No one thought anything of just us running around, these little kids with beards and moustaches and gray hair and black coats.

[1080] The fucking scene where they're looking for the blood in the nightclub, we lost the vial.

[1081] I'm like, what in the fuck?

[1082] The fact that he drew his blood in the bathroom and then lost the vial like Jesus Christ it was so crazy I was just watching it like shaking my head like this is all real this is how this went down that guy was worth how many hundreds of millions of dollars how much oh for over 400 million was his gross uh revenue just in baseball and he just had knuckleheads I mean the fact that he was like willing to keep this guy around him he grew up in Miami that's who you surround yourself with when you when you grow up in Miami and that scene was a I mean that scene we had like all those kids like all the extra kids parting shout out to my director of photography bj golden neck he did a hell of a job like that was a complicated so good it's a great documentary all your shit's great thank you know i'm a big fan of all your stuff but this one's particularly silly you should come down to miami you should we're doing i'm almost embarrassed to say it i just mentioned it earlier we turned cocaine cowboys into a stage play yeah you were saying that before we started and i'm like what are you She should come down.

[1083] It's how cute.

[1084] It's not a musical.

[1085] Okay.

[1086] You should come down and it's called Confessions of a Cocaine Cowboy.

[1087] You might remember in the documentary, there was a hitman, Jorge Riviala, who he worked for La Madrina, the godmother, Grisel de Blanco.

[1088] And when we first started researching the doc in 2004, we obtained a seven volume, 1 ,300 page deposition that he gave.

[1089] And normally in a depot.

[1090] You're like, the answer's like, yes, no, yes, no. I don't remember, you know, don't recall.

[1091] This was like, he was a cooperating witness against Griselda in, in the Miami -Dade County, state of Florida.

[1092] It was a three capital murder charges, so three death penalties.

[1093] We're talking old sparky cases and the electric chair.

[1094] And so he was cooperating witness.

[1095] So it read like a monologue.

[1096] It read like a, I'm reading it and going, I went to New World School of the Arts High School, which was where I studied theater.

[1097] So I was reading a lot of plays.

[1098] And I was like, oh, shit.

[1099] This is, this would be like a great play.

[1100] And 15 years later, we, we turned it into confession of a cocaine, confessions of a cocaine cowboy.

[1101] And you said it's kind of funny?

[1102] So, someone described it.

[1103] There it is right there.

[1104] Oh, shit, yeah.

[1105] My, my producing partner, um, that's Jansi Arias from, uh, formerly, spoiler alert.

[1106] He's not on the show anymore.

[1107] His character got into some trouble.

[1108] Uh, queen of the south on USA.

[1109] Um, he's, he's brilliant in the show.

[1110] Uh, and so.

[1111] My producing partner, David Sipkin, described it, who co -produced cocaine cowboys and edited it with me. He's described it as a cross between cocaine cowboys and my Twitter feed.

[1112] That's how he described it.

[1113] So, like, it's a little reverent.

[1114] It's obviously a little absurd if you're going to put kind of cocaine cowboys as a live theater event.

[1115] So we kind of acknowledge the absurdity of it and the surreal exploitation of it.

[1116] And, you know, the guy, Michelle Hausman, who's the director of the play, at Miami New Drama at the Colony Theater in Miami Beach on Lincoln Road he said um he said why are we doing cocaine cowboys for the theater in 2019 and I was like it's a good question because like it speaks to the relevance of like why do this now and I said well if you take away from the documentary you take away the drugs and the money it's really a story about immigrants children and gun violence that's what it's about and what could be more relevant in the contemporary conversation than immigration, children, and gun violence.

[1117] And so ultimately, I wanted to make a story about the Miami of yesterday, but the America of today.

[1118] Like I said, the Miami of today is the America of tomorrow.

[1119] So here's a story about Miami in the 1980s, but it really resembles the America of today.

[1120] And so to do that, we had to not make it totally fucking depressing and disturbing.

[1121] We injected a lot of humor and a lot of irreverence into it.

[1122] The woman Zilla Mendoza who plays Grisel de Blanco also plays the state attorney.

[1123] So she has this dual role as sort of these dueling antagonists against Rivi, the hitman.

[1124] And it's just a you know, I was writing it with a friend, Oren Squire, this great TV writer and playwright.

[1125] Why does I have one one play both roles?

[1126] Because I felt that they were flip sides of the same coin.

[1127] I think the state attorney is an interesting character.

[1128] Does she wear different clothes?

[1129] Oh yeah.

[1130] She changed and has different hair.

[1131] And in fact, the performances are so different and the voices are so different that Zela does.

[1132] Some people after the show would be like, oh my God, she was amazing.

[1133] Zela was amazing as Grizledo.

[1134] Who's the actress that plays the state attorney?

[1135] Kathy.

[1136] And we're like, oh, we won't tell.

[1137] That's so weird.

[1138] The last time I heard of that being done effectively was Mars attacks when Jack Nicholson.

[1139] Yeah, played everybody.

[1140] The cowboy, but also played the president.

[1141] Yeah.

[1142] I like Mars.

[1143] attacks.

[1144] It's a great fucking movie.

[1145] I think it's real underrated Tim Burton.

[1146] Hugely underrated.

[1147] Amazing score.

[1148] That whole, I don't know, like especially now, I feel like it really holds up.

[1149] I still go, ah, ac, ac.

[1150] I'll still do that every now and then talking about UFO related things.

[1151] It was preposterous.

[1152] I love that movie.

[1153] It's a great movie.

[1154] People love it.

[1155] Oh my God, they're crazy.

[1156] It's great.

[1157] It holds up, man. I watched it like two years ago.

[1158] It holds up.

[1159] It's amazing.

[1160] It's wonderful.

[1161] it really is that's interesting though that you chose to use the same woman did you think about that for a while did you have another woman but you always wanted to do it from the beginning yeah always I just I have a strange relationship with the state attorney in Miami Dade County she's been the state attorney for about 26 years now and and you know when she was first elected she was like the first Cuban state attorney in the state of Florida very ambitious she was she's been the only state attorney we've had since Janet Reno left us for the Clinton administration.

[1162] That's how long she's been state attorney.

[1163] So now she has one of those records where you examine it and you say, okay, what's actually happening in this town?

[1164] When people say to me like, why is Miami so fucking corrupt?

[1165] Why, you know, why does corruption grow, you know, greater and wider than fucking oranges in Miami?

[1166] And the reason is when you have the top cop in town is not effectively enforce public corruption laws and does not pursue public corruption, you have an area where it's just you set a message of impunity.

[1167] That's the bottom line, you know, no trouble arresting innocent young black kids on drug charges or whatever, but like when it comes to enforcing public corruption, she's just non -existent.

[1168] And so what happens is, is you have a, and of course, it's like the broken windows theory of crime.

[1169] If you allow petty corruption to, to, to, to go eventually some of these politicians wind up literally in a closet at city hall accepting bags full of money and the only thing we've been able to rely on to some extent is the feds coming in and trying to help but you have a state attorney who has never in her 26 years in office charged a police officer for non -duty killing whoa despite a proliferation of these incidents so it's not like it's oh it's not happening as often.

[1170] The incidents have exploded.

[1171] And the reason the incidents have exploded is because police know that they'll get away with it because Kathy will not prosecute them.

[1172] So the message that's being sent is a dangerous one.

[1173] And it has created a toxic effect with a relationship between obviously police and and the citizens that they're supposed to be protecting and serving.

[1174] And it's created a very dangerous, you know, situation in the city.

[1175] And it's also created a situation where just like mayor after mayor just gets away with pure fuckery, you know?

[1176] Oh, God.

[1177] Yeah.

[1178] And that's, that's, it's not a sexy answer.

[1179] People always like, why is Miami so corrupt?

[1180] People want some sort of sexy answer.

[1181] And I say, well, when the top cop is the same person for 26 years, you know, if you're looking at something, if you want to know what's wrong in a community or with anything, you don't look at what changes.

[1182] I mean, mayors come and go, police chiefs come and go, commissioners come and go.

[1183] So killers come and go, you know, criminals come and go.

[1184] You look at the constants.

[1185] You say, what's been the same here for 26 years?

[1186] That's got to be the problem.

[1187] And sure is shit, that's the problem.

[1188] So I wanted to make a statement about the state of Miami today and say that, you know, also, Grisel de Blanco was born in Colombia in a very difficult time in the history of that country during La Villancia.

[1189] This brutal civil war between liberal and conservative parties that went on for like 20 years almost caused the horrific murders of like 200 ,000 people.

[1190] Some very brutal, some very public.

[1191] It's been reported that she, as a hobby with their friends and their youth, he's just run around and just bury bodies that were just lying in the street or lying around.

[1192] Like that was just a hobby, something for the kids to do.

[1193] And so you grow up in that environment.

[1194] So we were saying earlier, like you grew up in a cult.

[1195] You grow up in that environment, your psyche is fucked.

[1196] You know, you're not exactly born into money or power or wealth.

[1197] You know, your dad's not a judge.

[1198] You don't exactly have those benefits or opportunities.

[1199] And if you can try to make something of yourself, I mean, the problem, of course, is like, Resel de Blanco went into an illicit trade, but a trade that a lot of people in Columbia were getting into from that era.

[1200] It's just, I wanted to have a discussion about a lot of the characters argue with each other in the play about how different everybody is and how Miami is like Game of Thrones and Paradise with slightly fewer dragons you know like we just self -segregate and it becomes this battle of fiefdoms and and um because we're not like we're not multicultural we're very much segregated like I always say the common misconception about Miami is that we're a melting pot we are not a melting pot we are a TV dinner where sometimes the peas fall into the mashed potatoes you know we have our little kingdoms you know by by flag by nationality very much so um and so everybody's arguing about how we're different and the play sort of when you walk away you're like okay but this is a conversation about how we're all the same and some of us have different opportunities than the than than others and it's just a matter of what we're able to make of those of those opportunities and that was sort of the comparison i was making by because it's a little locally it's a little scandalous the fact that the same actress plays both of these very powerful women.

[1201] How so?

[1202] Because Kathy, the state attorney, is a very powerful, popular figure.

[1203] So because you've publicly stated that there's a reason there's parallels between her and Grisel de Blanco.

[1204] And let's say the portrayal is not the most flattering in the play.

[1205] I'm worried.

[1206] I think she gets a fair shake in the play, but Rivey, the character through his commentary, comes down pretty hard on her.

[1207] I've been publicly very critical of her I think in a hope in a constructive way publicly and via social media and but I mean 26 years and age almost 70 people don't shit yeah but that is fascinating you gotta wonder if it's a spoken agreement or if this is just a known sort of just this is just how she does business you don't have to worry I call it a conspiracy of convenience because not every conspiracy involves a bunch of you know, a rogues gallery at a boardroom table in a dark, smoky room.

[1208] You know, it's talking about, okay, how we're going to conspire?

[1209] I don't know what are going to do.

[1210] So conspiracies of convenience are just like people are in positions of power and everybody just kind of wink, wink, nod, nod.

[1211] Everybody knows what they're supposed to do.

[1212] Right.

[1213] And you don't ruffle feathers and you don't, you don't fuck with conventional wisdom.

[1214] And this is the way it's always, this is the way it's always been done.

[1215] So this is the way we do it.

[1216] And everybody just kind of, you either fall in line.

[1217] or they get rid of you one way or another.

[1218] And so that's just the way fiefdoms operate.

[1219] It sounds like such an exhausting project to create a play out of that sort of horrific time in Miami's history.

[1220] It was fucking exhausting.

[1221] Like when you told me you were doing it, that's the first thing I thought of.

[1222] Being a lazy fuck, I'm like, oh, that's so much time.

[1223] That seems like so much time to do.

[1224] I don't want to do that.

[1225] You know, there's, there's, like, this documentary racket is not very profitable.

[1226] So I wanted to go where the real money is.

[1227] Plays.

[1228] You know, playwright.

[1229] You're going to make your fortune, Billy.

[1230] So, and I said to my, to my co -author, Orrin Squire, and the director, I was like, listen, it's like, this has to be a purely theatrical experience, too.

[1231] No projections, no archive, like news footage like we use in the document.

[1232] I'm like, if, in Miami, first of all, these days, if I just got to put my pants, hands on to leave the house that's a fucking hassle meaning like if I could just when I'm home if I can just chill I want to just chill right so if I'm gonna be like okay I got to go see a fucking play I'm like so first thing I had to do is put my pants on all right so put my pants on then you got to get in the car you got to brave this traffic spring break on right now Miami Beach it's out of control so you got to go to South Beach go to the theater Lincoln Road and then like pay your hard earned money to see this play because plays are more expensive tickets for plays are a lot pricier than a move movie right and so or a Netflix subscription so you go and I'm like I don't want people to be there like what the hell I could have just stayed home and watch this shit on on Netflix I want people to go like holy shit and we're actually seeing that we're seeing um a really disproportionate number of people coming to the theater who have never been to like a live play before because of their interest in the subject matter the title confessions of a cocaine cowboy or the documentary so people are coming and they're rowdy and they're like interacting with the actors it's kind of fun because we do a lot of breaking of the fourth wall where Rivi talks to the crowd or the cops talk to the crowd and so they're talking back the audience and it's fun and very and funny and I think pretty thought provoking particularly at the end and they just like this audience is we're like oh shit you can't duplicate this experience in any way you know that I mean like yeah I mean watching comedy on Netflix is one thing being in the room it's a totally different energy yeah it's a different animal Yeah, it's a rush.

[1233] It's like, you know, it's like a drug.

[1234] How many seats?

[1235] This theater, 420.

[1236] Oh, it's great.

[1237] 420, bro.

[1238] It's fairly intimate.

[1239] Oh.

[1240] But that's a good size for like an intimate live show.

[1241] It's huge.

[1242] And it's a beautiful, it's like a historic theater in Miami Beach.

[1243] There's not a lot of...

[1244] What's it called?

[1245] The Colony Theater.

[1246] Okay, I know where that is.

[1247] On Lincoln Road, it's that walking street.

[1248] You probably get...

[1249] Back when we had the Comedy Festival, you probably did it.

[1250] You were at the Fillmore and you might have done the colony.

[1251] Yeah, I did the Jackie Gleason Theater.

[1252] Yes, the film more now.

[1253] I don't, I've done a few different places there.

[1254] I don't remember all of them.

[1255] There's a smaller room for you, but like, it's a great, cool space.

[1256] It used to be an old movie theater.

[1257] My grandma used to go see movies there.

[1258] We don't preserve a lot of our history in Miami.

[1259] It's like I was saying earlier, like, we're such a young city, literally young, and we're like America's perpetual rebellious teenager.

[1260] We're like everything new.

[1261] We don't, like, we have a transient population, a lack of institutions.

[1262] memory and we're like, fuck history.

[1263] Let's just knock this down and build new because that's the only way to create jobs.

[1264] Like knocking shit down, redesigning it, rebuilding it, repopulating it, building it taller, creating more revenue because we don't have a state income tax in Florida.

[1265] So it's just like, it's just constant hustle.

[1266] So to have a place like that where it's like, oh, we're going to take a deep breath and say, this is a cool spot.

[1267] There's no venues like this in town.

[1268] It's been here for almost 100 years.

[1269] Like, let's preserve it.

[1270] You know, let's preserve the original architecture.

[1271] Let's preserve some of the old there's like this old carving of like pelicans like this really creepy like old school deco art they just preserved it and it's really it's like the perfect environment to do a show that's like by Miami for Miami yeah the no income tax thing is very attractive to people people move to states that don't have income that's one thing that pulls Nevada pulls people into Nevada why do you think OJ Simpson moved there yeah like there was a law where they couldn't get his money right we have the homestead law like that you know you can you can't the money you can't get the house it's a great place to sort of hide assets I told you it's like a third world country it's like a banana republic yeah because he got he lost the civil case a 30 plus million dollar judgment against him so he bought a fucking house in Florida now he is he still there oh I don't think so I think he's in Vegas now I think I think he they released him but they were gonna I think he might be on paper so I think he might have to stick around I'm not certain Because for a while he wanted, I think he was asking permission to go to Florida when he first got released.

[1272] And the Attorney General of Florida was like, no thanks.

[1273] To be fair, though, she was a blonde woman.

[1274] So she was a blonde woman.

[1275] So she was scared.

[1276] So, too soon?

[1277] What?

[1278] I don't know.

[1279] No, too soon with him.

[1280] It's a, he's one of the weirdest cases in all of American pop culture history.

[1281] I mean, he is one of the weirdest cases.

[1282] I, you know, there's a fantastic photo that someone made a meme of Howard Kosell with Bruce Jenner on his one side and then O .J. Simpson on his other side and Howard Cosell saying, I've seen the future, you're not going to fucking believe this.

[1283] Because it is so goddamn crazy that one of the most famous and beloved, people forget before that murder, beloved.

[1284] I mean, he was like the rock.

[1285] Oh, absolutely.

[1286] Right?

[1287] In a lot of ways, maybe even, well, I don't want to say more beloved.

[1288] The rock's pretty beloved.

[1289] But that level, I mean, endorsements, hurts rental car ads, he was in movies, he loved him.

[1290] Yeah, beloved personality, in comedies, no less.

[1291] The naked gun trilogy.

[1292] Yes.

[1293] You know, and, well, it was inevitable.

[1294] He would wind up in Florida, of course, but, but like, crazy.

[1295] Just crazy.

[1296] And this is something that in the end, not to spoil it, you've been so kind to not spoil screwball, but in the end, that's all.

[1297] part of the message is the idea that and why we use the children these athletes are heroes to these kids they look up to them these are supposedly role models and how many professional athletes do you know who you would be like I want my kids to idolize this this person like legitimately like legitimately very few sure so it's like that's the and that's where that whole sort of like lie, cheat, steal to get a head message, I think is what's what we're teaching our children these days.

[1298] And that's the case with like OJ Simpson.

[1299] It's like this kid, people idolize that guy.

[1300] So did they, did Arod retire?

[1301] Did he ever come back from this?

[1302] I don't know anything about baseball.

[1303] For one season.

[1304] He did?

[1305] Yeah, for one season he came back.

[1306] He got the largest suspension in the history of the game.

[1307] But they reduced it, right?

[1308] They reduced it, but it remained the largest suspension.

[1309] So how many games?

[1310] Was it a year?

[1311] it was like 160, it was almost like basically a full season.

[1312] And the following season he came back, played about another year.

[1313] He had to remember he was injured for a while.

[1314] I think actually he might have been injured the following year and then came back the year after and then he retired and the Yankees made him like, they gave him like a front office job where he would mentor young players.

[1315] Really?

[1316] You can't make this shit up, dude.

[1317] Really?

[1318] Yeah.

[1319] But that is so interesting that he didn't become persona non grata like Jose Canseco did.

[1320] Right.

[1321] It's, I don't know how quite out to explain it.

[1322] And listen, it's been one of the greatest, I think, reputation rebuilders, not even a rebuilder.

[1323] Remember, he was hated.

[1324] Yankees fans used to boo the guy.

[1325] Like, he was not a beloved figure as a baseball player.

[1326] Now he's like, I mean, my mom knows who he is.

[1327] I mean, she calls him Jalo's boyfriend, but she knows, the bottom line is she knows.

[1328] Like, he, this, I mean, I think they're going to be studying.

[1329] This case study of, like, image rehab is going to be studied for, like, decades to come in, like, PR class.

[1330] Calculated?

[1331] I think a lot of it was accidental, but like, look at, he's never even apologized or really admitted what he did.

[1332] He never went on like the Maya culpator, like Lance Armstrong, poor Lance Armstrong did.

[1333] Did he test positive?

[1334] No, he never failed to test either.

[1335] Yeah, see, that's part of it.

[1336] Like, he was on this shady doctor's dockets.

[1337] How the fuck did the doctor use the right name?

[1338] Like, that's what's so crazy.

[1339] Like, why did you use his name?

[1340] What do you mean?

[1341] Why did you use A. Rodriguez?

[1342] How about use a pseudonym?

[1343] Well, you have to remember, Tony was doing a lot of cocaine at the time.

[1344] Right.

[1345] And he was like in a, he was like in a fucking spiral his whole life was.

[1346] Right.

[1347] He was about to hit rock bottom while he was running this business.

[1348] And what's funny is, so his medical records, there was some file folders, but a lot of them were in composition books, like just old school CVS.

[1349] Like you used in the movie.

[1350] Yeah.

[1351] So that's why that's the icon.

[1352] He wrote in and he would scribble in.

[1353] And so those were his, he'd write patient nicknames and dose.

[1354] And then some of it would just be like stream of consciousness, like middle school girl like journal.

[1355] Like he would write his name in different fonts.

[1356] He would come up with different like business ideas and plans and make signs, you know, for like his businesses and talk about motivational speaking ideas that he had.

[1357] And it was like, it's a real journey like into his mind of a cocaine addicted fagest doctor in Miami.

[1358] Which is an interesting journey.

[1359] I got to tell you.

[1360] But like he, so these composition books, on some pages there'd be like code names.

[1361] Like, you know, he had a guy that was like, you know, that he'd name after cars or he'd name after like miho or little Spanish words or things like that.

[1362] He had a player, what he bought him, like a SUV of some kind.

[1363] So he like, you know, he codnamed him like Tahoe whatever the fucking car was.

[1364] You know, another one was DUI because he'd just gotten a DUI.

[1365] why.

[1366] So that was like, but then like after a while he just kind of abandoned it.

[1367] And then was like A. Rodriguez or Alex Rodriguez.

[1368] By the way, there's a shit ton of Alex Rodriguez is in Miami.

[1369] But when you start seeing A rod in the books, kind of a tell, you know.

[1370] Yeah, a little bit.

[1371] Jesus Christ.

[1372] He just got sloppy, you know, like fucking drug addicts.

[1373] What does that guy do now?

[1374] Well, he's five years off off of cocaine, which is good.

[1375] He went to federal prison and rightfully so for the kids, for the high school kids that he, yeah, when the judge sentenced him specifically said, you know, it's one thing for consenting adults to engage in this behavior.

[1376] It's another thing for you to drag kids into this mess and potentially poison them.

[1377] So he went to federal prison, get this, he winds up in a camp.

[1378] So it's like minimum security federal prison in Alabama.

[1379] And he winds up teaching, in part, a nutrition class.

[1380] to his fellow inmates he's in there with Jeff Skilling of Enron who's teaching a business class to his fellow inmates and Jesse Jackson Jr. who's teaching a political science and civics course to their fellow inmates.

[1381] They say prison's the best place to learn and that camp in Alabama.

[1382] So we actually, so one of my, you know, we were running out of money on this movie and so as you always do with movies and so there's a couple scenes that we wanted to do that we ran out.

[1383] We just could couldn't do.

[1384] We had to cut him from the schedule.

[1385] So one of them was an epilogue with all the kids in federal prison like jumpsuits and like Tony teaching and like a little baby Jesse Jackson Jr. A little baby Jeff Skilling from Enron, a little baby.

[1386] And another thing, so another thing Bosch was doing is he was like you see him at the beginning of the movie sitting at the bar at the Ritz Carlton, Kibiskin, and he's writing little protocols on a fucking cocktail napkin for the bartenders on how to build muscle, how to lose weight.

[1387] So he was doing that in prison for inmates.

[1388] for like vitamins and supplements that they could buy in the commissary he would like he'd be like hey yo Dr. T I want to I'm trying to build muscle mass and he'd be like okay here here's a pro go to the commissary buy these vitamins or these supplements and there you take it this time you know Tony I'm looking to lose weight what do I do and he'd give him and then guards started coming to him like hey I'm looking at my wife wants to lose some weight or whatever yeah he'd give him protocols yeah so I mean he's very I told you he's very much a true believer in himself he's got a lot of faith in himself and he for a while was planning on opening a nutritional supplement business across the street from Marlins Park in Miami this is post or no yeah like this is pretty recently it hasn't happened yet but like he's looking around for new opportunity and Miami is a land of new opportunity I told you this last time I saw you that it's an old saying that I love that But L .A. is where you go and you want to be somebody.

[1389] New York is where you go and you are somebody.

[1390] And Miami's where you go and you want to be somebody else.

[1391] It's just, it's not only a town of reinvention.

[1392] It's like, it's just always been a sunny place for shady people.

[1393] I just always wanted to know what happens to a fake doctor who gets busted selling steroids to kids.

[1394] What does that guy do for a living afterwards?

[1395] I think now he's, I suspect now he's just sort of being, you know, subsidized by family and friends right now.

[1396] He does have kids and child support probably to make somehow.

[1397] I don't know exactly what he's up to.

[1398] I'll ask him the next time I'm going to see him this weekend.

[1399] Are you really?

[1400] Oh, he goes to this Q &A's.

[1401] Oh, yeah, he does.

[1402] And he's quite funny.

[1403] He's quite soberish.

[1404] Ish.

[1405] Well, I think he still drinks, but he doesn't do illicit drugs anymore.

[1406] And that was bad for a while.

[1407] Yeah, I'm sure.

[1408] Yeah, well, that's always the bad decision -making route.

[1409] What's funny about this?

[1410] is that he, so we caught him like on his way into federal prison originally.

[1411] So in November of 2013, Alex was in the midst of the arbitration that you see at the end, you know, that we portray at the end of the movie in MLB's offices in Manhattan.

[1412] And we get a call from his publicist.

[1413] And his publicist says, you know, Alex is on a break from the arbitration.

[1414] And he's coming down to Miami.

[1415] He's got an office in Coral Gables, which is just like very wealthy, affluent suburb adjacent based into the city of Miami.

[1416] And it's actually the city where the University of Miami is located where Alex Rodriguez Field is at UM on campus.

[1417] And so they said, Alex would like to meet with you to talk about possibly doing some kind of tell -all documentary.

[1418] This is November 2013.

[1419] So I'm like, yes, please.

[1420] Yeah.

[1421] So I figured like, this is a hush, hush meeting.

[1422] You know, we're going to do this on the download at his office in Carl Gables.

[1423] They say, meet us some weekday.

[1424] High noon at Hillstone Restaurant, which is the power lunch spot in that neighborhood.

[1425] The most prominent corner in the city.

[1426] Florida ceiling windows, open kitchen, everybody from the street to the dishwasher can see everything going on in that dining room.

[1427] They want to meet us there at noon.

[1428] So I'm like, oh, okay.

[1429] We go there, it's slammed.

[1430] Every seat taken.

[1431] Mob scene around the host stand, three, four deep at the bar.

[1432] they escorted us down the center me and my producer alfred spellman right down the center aisle parade us practically and you know ESPN in the 30 for 30s they really fetishize the directors so like they have like video interviews with us like you know in bumpers like every hour like little segments and so people sometimes recognize me usually in Miami like close to UM because we did the UM you know doc so if there's any place any place how I was going to be recognized it was two miles from the University of Miami.

[1433] And so it takes right down the middle.

[1434] And there in the center booth on this elevated platform around the back is Alex Rodriguez holding court.

[1435] And we literally have to like step up on stage to join him.

[1436] And like all eyes are on us in this place.

[1437] And I don't know what we kind of get introduced and I need like an icebreaker.

[1438] So I'm like, so who's going to call page six?

[1439] You or us?

[1440] Sure.

[1441] a shit two weeks later it was in page six.

[1442] And so we sit there and Alex didn't laugh.

[1443] The publicist laugh.

[1444] That's like a publicist joke, you know, I guess.

[1445] So because it was clear that we were there to be seen having this meeting.

[1446] It was so clear.

[1447] Why do you think they did that?

[1448] It was part of Alex's, when you said, was there a plan?

[1449] There was kind of a plan.

[1450] It was part of Alex's like a PR offensive or pushback against major league baseball.

[1451] And And so we sat there with him for almost an hour and a half, and he just lied, he just lied to us the whole time.

[1452] And I didn't know that.

[1453] I'm not a, about everything.

[1454] I never met Tony Bosch.

[1455] This is all, but you look at my records.

[1456] I, you know, my performance didn't improve after the time he claims to have been treating me. I'm not a baseball fan.

[1457] I'm like you.

[1458] To me, I call it screensaver, all right?

[1459] I just, but my producing partner, Alfred, is a degenerate baseball thing.

[1460] He gets to, like, the fucking MLB .com package has it on his desk, on his iPad all day long during the and I'm just like, I mean, I guess he does that instead of Ambien.

[1461] You know, it's like less sleep eating with baseball, I guess, I don't know.

[1462] So he's just like, but he's a huge baseball fan.

[1463] And when I left, I was like, he made a lot of good points Alex did.

[1464] Alfred's like, fucking lied about everything.

[1465] And I can't blame him.

[1466] He lied to everybody in those days.

[1467] I mean, he was in a, he was desperately trying to salvage his career and his legacy.

[1468] And he allegedly lied to the DEA in a queen for a day meeting.

[1469] Who the fuck lies in a queen for a day meeting other than George Papadopoulos?

[1470] I mean, you're supposed, the whole point.

[1471] is you're supposed to tell the truth that they're not going to fuck with you.

[1472] But he allegedly did that.

[1473] What is a queen for a day meeting?

[1474] So queen for a day meeting with the feds, you get a letter for it.

[1475] They're like, we're investigating you're a witness in an investigation.

[1476] We understand you may have participated in some illegality or committed some crimes in the course of this larger investigation.

[1477] But we're not after you.

[1478] We just want you to come in, feel comfortable and free to tell the truth to our investigator so that we can pursue our investigation accurately and fairly and we will not whatever anything you say will not be held against you essentially in a court of law so you're queen for a day they call it you get a letter a queen for a day letter and the actually called that they call it queen for a day and so i don't it's the thing the feds have and so Alex was free to just speak the only thing you can't do is lie to a federal agent that is a crime and that is in fact i think what george popatopoulos was ultimately he lied in his queen for a day meeting the whole point of a queen for a day meeting is to not lie and not because you can't get in trouble essentially for any crimes that you admit there about the investigation so that was the allegations that he actually lied so i listen i'm a documentarian people lie to me for a living i'm i'm fine with that especially because they spelled my name right in page six and that shit was in bold i don't have the juice to make that happened Alex's Alex's publicist had the juice to make to make that happen i was flattered um that that they you know write about me but like um but you didn't think that he was lying i suspected he wasn't telling us the whole truth but i thought he made some interesting points and alfred so alfred had was a pitcher in high school north miami beach senior high go chargers and alfred had actually pitched against alex rodriguez this is like one of his only war stories from his baseball years in high school right is that Alex was a senior i think alfred was going to some sort of Ron Frazier baseball camp out of UM and they did the summer league game and Alfred is, my eyes are glazing over telling the story, but like Alfred, Alfred's pitches against Arad, who was already a senior, already a beast.

[1479] Everybody knew this guy was going to, was going to go in the draft and be huge.

[1480] Everybody knew about that.

[1481] He had been the talk of the high school baseball community in Miami forever.

[1482] And so Alfred pitched against him and he held Arod to a triple.

[1483] Of course, Alex you know, Arod smacked the shit out of this ball, sailed away, but he, Alford, he was, it was only a triple.

[1484] It wasn't, it was a rare not home run for Alex.

[1485] So I thought, oh, we have like a funny, personal anecdote.

[1486] Like, we can find some common ground here, right?

[1487] You're talking to someone who might be a potential interview subject, you know, and so I'm like, actually, Alex, you and Alfred have met before.

[1488] Alfred rolls his eyes.

[1489] Like, he's going to embarrass me and tell this dumb shit story.

[1490] So I tell out, like, isn't this funny?

[1491] Like, you guys, but, and Alfred held you to a triple.

[1492] And he kind of, looked at me like you're looking at me right now.

[1493] He's just, he was totally unamused and maybe looked even a little hurt or offended.

[1494] This is the greatest baseball, one of the greatest baseball players of all time, the highest paid baseball player in history.

[1495] And here I'm just telling this cute story from like 20 years earlier or whatever.

[1496] And he seemed like, oh, he held me to a triple.

[1497] I'm like, how could you be upset about that?

[1498] You're one of the greatest of all time.

[1499] And, like, super winners.

[1500] But it's like, yeah, it's, that's why I left.

[1501] I was like, this guy's a really interesting character.

[1502] Like, he's a complicated guy.

[1503] He's an interesting guy.

[1504] He's a sensitive guy.

[1505] Like, I was curious about him.

[1506] I was excited about the prospect of interviewing him.

[1507] And, man, they practically ghosted us out.

[1508] Yeah, January of 2014, that's when they lowered.

[1509] They reduced his suspension.

[1510] I started hitting up every month.

[1511] I started hitting up the public says, yo, following up on that meeting.

[1512] You know?

[1513] Because it's funny.

[1514] In the page six article, it mentioned he met with the 30 for, 30 filmmakers, Billy Corbyn, Alfred Spellman.

[1515] He's been shopping a book proposal to these publishers.

[1516] The book proposal thing was total bunk.

[1517] Literally not true.

[1518] The publishers are like, we'd love to get one, but we haven't gotten a book proposal from Arod.

[1519] He really did have the meeting with us, but like, so everything was just, we were just kind of pawns in his game, which is cool, whatever.

[1520] Have they responded to this documentary?

[1521] Not exactly, but I, for like six or seven months, I'm emailing with the publicist.

[1522] And then it was clear that they weren't interested.

[1523] so and that became the tactic by the way when you said was there a strategy the strategy was to shut the fuck up and just like like you said like with the president big new york times big a scandal oh scandolo expo de and then maybe if we just tomorrow in this 24 hour news cycle in this fucking in this world of just being us being hammered with bad news you know in 240 characters every nanosecond of every day just shit just passes and they just they they played it just so so beautifully and brilliantly.

[1524] And then almost a year later, we got a call from a friend of Tony Bosch.

[1525] You guys want to meet with Tony Bosch?

[1526] He wants to talk to you about doing a documentary.

[1527] I'm like, hell yeah.

[1528] So we take the meeting, really interesting guy.

[1529] We meet with him several times over several months.

[1530] And then he says, listen, I want to do this interview.

[1531] He goes, I'm getting sentenced to prison tomorrow.

[1532] And we knew about that, you know, that the case was ongoing.

[1533] he said but look I expect the judge will give me 45 to 60 days to surrender to complete this drug rehab program I'm in and then I'm only going to get like a year and a half two years in prison and so we could find a couple days before I have to surrender to do this interview and I'm like dude listen let's see what happens tomorrow I was like depending on how much time the judge gives you like you're going to prison one way or another like maybe you want to spend some time with your kids get your affairs in order let's make a decision tomorrow whether or not we're going to take two, three, four days out of your life for this.

[1534] Maybe we'll do it when you get out in a year and a half years.

[1535] Federal, you do at least 80 % of your time, but then you can go to halfway house sometimes for a little bit at the end, six months or as long as a year.

[1536] So he goes to court.

[1537] The judge says four years, and you have not 45 to 60 days to surrender, but 45 to 60 minutes to surrender.

[1538] give me your you know take off your belt and your shoelaces and surrender to uh to the bop and he did and so we backburnered it again then i got a fucking email from tim elfrink who was the woodward and bernstein of the case he's the the journalist who got the stolen records from porter fisher the whistleblower and blew the lid off the whole thing at the beginning of 2013 he says to me porter fisher called me and he's asking me for your number to discuss possibly doing a documentary with you and i was like first of all like we sometimes don't make documentaries about things that we make documentaries about things that happened like 20 30 40 years ago this felt like it hadn't ripened yet like it was still a fresh wound you know like people who wouldn't be willing to talk like you have to kind of wait for more time to pass you know and here we are and I'm not a spiritual guy and I don't really believe in the universe talking to me or anything but I thought man if ever someone was trying to tell us something it was like you got to make this documentary the three primary players in this major baseball scandal all independently of each other contacted us within just over a year to talk about doing a documentary about it.

[1539] And I, Alfred jokes that in Florida, when you get out of prison, your first call is to your mother.

[1540] Your second calls to rack and tour to our company, you know, to talk about a documentary.

[1541] And Tony got out.

[1542] I hit up Tony.

[1543] I'm like, I'll come visit you in Alabama.

[1544] How much time did you have to do?

[1545] He wound up getting a sentence reduction he did just about two years and then he was in that camp in alabama i wrote him i said dude i'm going to come up and visit you we talk about this he said i'll be in a halfway house in six months so let's just meet in miami i was like done and then when you meet porter and you meet tony and you see them their interviews in the documentary you realize like well Alex this isn't even about Alex you know it's like this is about these guys in this crazy you know carl hyacin -esque like cohen brothers botched robbery like story and so like that was the story we wanted to tell and that was the Tony Porter part of the story well listen dude you fucking nailed it it's a great documentary I really enjoyed it like I really enjoy all of them and just keep on fucking knocking it out of the park man thank you a baseball metaphor I appreciate it I really appreciate it man thanks for having me Joe uh give everybody your social media tell people how to get a hold of you at Billy Corbin B -I -L -Y C -O -R -B -E -N I'm not the lead singer of Smashing and that's the same on Twitter and on Instagram at Billy Corbyn Instagram, same on Twitter.

[1546] Hit me up.

[1547] Beautiful.

[1548] Thanks, brother.

[1549] Thank you.

[1550] That was great.

[1551] Thank you.