#1917 - Fedor Gorst

[0] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

[1] The Joe Rogan Experience.

[2] Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[3] What's up, man?

[4] Keep this like about a fist from your face.

[5] Oh, all right.

[6] You are the first professional pool player to ever be on this podcast.

[7] Yeah, thank you.

[8] Congratulations.

[9] Thank you so much.

[10] How old are you, man?

[11] I'm 22.

[12] How long you've been playing?

[13] I've actually started with a different game called Russian Pyramid.

[14] Yeah, I've seen that before.

[15] Yeah, that's the game we play in Russia.

[16] You know, I've played since I was about six.

[17] That's when I had my first coach.

[18] But I've been around the billiard balls since the very beginning.

[19] What are you ranked in the world right now?

[20] You're like, in my opinion, you're like top three, top four in the world.

[21] There's currently like too many different rankings.

[22] You can't really, because I didn't play as many tournaments this year, like official ones, so I don't have any ranking points.

[23] Because you're from Russia, and you couldn't play in tournaments for a while, right, during the Ukraine crisis?

[24] Yeah, so since the end of February, when the whole thing started, they banned all the Russian athletes, and they only removed the ban, I believe, in the end of July.

[25] You know, it's crazy is they didn't ban UFC fighters.

[26] Yeah.

[27] We had a lot of Russian UFC fighters, and they don't.

[28] don't even get treated badly.

[29] They don't, they don't get booed.

[30] I mean, they go booed a little bit by some assholes.

[31] It's different in every sport like hockey, you know, Vetchkin is still playing.

[32] You know, there's a lot of great players in hockey that still play from Russia.

[33] But so in Poole, they made a decision to not have Russian players for a little while, and then they relaxed it.

[34] Why did they relax it?

[35] Did they realize it was, it's not your, it's not your business.

[36] Like, it's not, like, you're 22.

[37] You're not involved in politics.

[38] Well, you can understand it from I don't know from like the business point of view but I guess but you know pool in my opinion is a small sport and in the end of the day I don't know how many pool players will you ban by betting the Russian athletes I know I mean three players yeah there's only a few from Russia right yeah that play internationally and you're the best uh from Russia yeah yeah for sure for sure like you're one of the best in the world period it's kind of crazy to be one of the best world at something at 22 years old because you have so much room to grow and get better oh yeah for sure i mean that's got to be very promising for you because for at 22 years old you're just sort of like your body's not even fully formed yet your brain's not fully formed they say your cerebral cortex your frontal lobe fully forms when you're 25 yeah i mean i still have a lot of uh potential and i'm definitely will be aiming to get up there so how did you make the trek from uh coming to rutt from Russia, coming to the United States to play.

[39] How old were you?

[40] You mean the first time I came?

[41] It was 2016, my very good Russian friend and my sponsor.

[42] He brought me to Derby City Classic.

[43] So that was my first experience.

[44] So you were like, what, 16 or something?

[45] 16, yeah.

[46] Wow, robbing people at 16.

[47] I did pretty good.

[48] In the 9 -ball division, I think I finished in round 12, which is like the last 12 players out of 500 plus.

[49] That's pretty good for 16.

[50] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[51] So, and then a lot of people kind of recognize that I can play, and I got an invite for Derby City Classic Invitational Timble Tournament.

[52] And the Derby City Classic, we should tell everybody, is this enormous eight -day tournament that takes place in Kentucky.

[53] Yeah, non -stop action.

[54] Every year, it's like the Hustlers Convention.

[55] like all the great players all the gamblers all the people that talk shit all the people that sell cues everybody goes down to the Derby City yeah that's the biggest pool fest I still haven't been you should I know I wanted to do you know Justin Collett he used to run the action report I've heard but I've wasn't a good friend of mine and one point in time we had actually talked about doing like a documentary on the Derby City because I think it's such a crazy subculture of America that most people just have no idea Oh, yeah, that's the great.

[56] You can, for sure, film a movie about it.

[57] Oh, yeah, there's so many characters.

[58] There's so many oddball people.

[59] You know, I found pool when I was, I guess I was about 23, somewhere around that, 23 or 24.

[60] I first started playing pool, and I injured my knee.

[61] I had an ACL tear in my knee, so I couldn't work out for a while.

[62] And a friend of mine who was a comedian, we started playing pool together.

[63] We both sucked.

[64] We were just playing pool.

[65] but just so lucky that the place that I picked to go to was a local action spot and there was a lot of big gambling going on there like guys would come in and play $10 ,000 sets of one pocket it was a big deal and so I got to see these guys and I got to see this subculture that I wasn't aware of and I got to see what it looks like when the game of pool is played really well when someone's really good at it how beautiful it is to watch and how excited it is to watch.

[66] So I was, you know, I was exposed to it at a very early age.

[67] Not an early age for most, not obviously not an early age for you, but for me it was like I had no idea that there was a world out there where people just wanted to play pool all day and gamble.

[68] Oh yeah, there's a lot of people that do play pool every day and...

[69] All day, eight hours a day.

[70] For sure.

[71] How many hours a day do you play?

[72] It depends on my tournament schedule.

[73] You know, I'm not an action play.

[74] that play all day every day but when you say action play you mean gambling gambling yeah so I'm a I consider myself as a tournament professional player but you do gamble I do yeah you have gambled I'm aware of some gambling that you take place in yeah yeah I've played some matches big ones and small ones but what's the biggest one you've ever played how much uh the biggest amount that I ever won was a 51 ,000 from one guy it was this year but we it was we played by the wreck so we we started off at playing like a thousand a rack and then we increased a thousand a rack one pocket oh okay which is still a really good bet yeah that's a very good bet yeah yeah and then we played uh all day and uh i kept winning and winning he was increasing and increasing raising the bet 51 thousand dollars in a day yeah that's nice yeah He must have been sick.

[75] Oh, yeah.

[76] Did you give him a spot?

[77] Yeah, I had to give him a spot from the beginning, and then by the end of the day, the spot was even bigger.

[78] So let's explain one pocket, because there's a lot of people that are listening that don't know what that means.

[79] One pocket is a game.

[80] On a pool table, there's six pockets.

[81] And in one pocket, you each have one of the corner pockets near where the balls are racked.

[82] And the goal of the game is just for other people, not for you.

[83] Obviously, you know how to play.

[84] The goal is there's 15.

[85] balls in Iraq the goal is for you to get eight balls in your pocket you only have one pocket that you could shoot the balls in but now for a player like yourself like if you were going to play someone like me you'd have to give me a big spot it would have to be like you know I'd have to get like four balls yeah you'd have to get 11 something like that something like that yeah that's that's basically what it was with that guy we started off at I was giving them 12 to 6 I think and we ended up giving I ended up giving them 10 to 5 which is a huge spot that's a huge spot he was on that field and couldn't do anything that's the problem once you start losing a thousand dollars a game oh yeah oh my god the world of pool and gambling is such an interesting world to me because it's uh something that people get very very very addicted to oh yeah there's a lot of characters in uh in our sport yes there are so um When you're playing the Russian pyramid game, so you're over in Russia and you're playing this game, how were you exposed to nine ball and ten ball, the games they play here in America?

[86] So what happened was I was obviously a little short, and I couldn't really reach the table because the pyramid table is a little bit higher than the pool table.

[87] And I think I was about eight or nine -year -old, and my coach told me that I probably have to switch to pool if I want to play professionally and you know I have more potential I can travel the world and we decided that we have to switch and that's when I started playing pool so when you say your coach is that common in Russia that young players have coaches honestly all over the world the game is treated differently it only in the US it's more of you know some entertainment that you can just go to the bar and drink beer and have fun really Yeah, in Russia, they trade the game as a sport, and we have practice facilities, coaches that work with kids.

[88] Wow.

[89] I know it's the case in other places.

[90] Like, I know it in Taiwan they do that.

[91] Yeah, China.

[92] Germany, I mean, Poland, Netherlands.

[93] Kopinyi, I heard they have a day where all they do is jump.

[94] They just practice jump shots all day.

[95] The whole game is jump shots.

[96] I believe that.

[97] I did that, too.

[98] Do you do that too?

[99] I mean, I've practiced a lot.

[100] I've jumped a lot of balls before when I was a kid.

[101] I just had fun jumping balls around them.

[102] I'm fascinated by Russian methods for sport because so many elite combat sports athletes come out of Russia, so many great wrestlers, so many great mixed martial arts fighters, great kickboxers.

[103] And I had John Bernthal on the podcast.

[104] You know, he is a very famous actor who's in The Punisher and the Walking Dead and a bunch of movies and stuff.

[105] really, really interesting guy.

[106] But he went over to Russia to study theater.

[107] And he said that it was so different than anything he'd ever done.

[108] And for the first year, you didn't even read anything.

[109] They just worked with you on rhythm and remembering things and concentration and acrobatics and ballet.

[110] It's like Russia is, the way they treat sport is so disciplined.

[111] Well, back in USSR, I think they treated it even more strict than nowadays.

[112] You know, the coaches were really, really hard on the kids, and I think that's why they all raced with discipline.

[113] I think that's the main factor that really favors them.

[114] So in Russia, they have the pyramid game.

[115] Is that the primary game that people play?

[116] That's what everybody's playing.

[117] I mean, honestly, pool is so small in Russia that you can count the players on both hands.

[118] So why did your coach think that you should play pool then if the pyramid game was so big?

[119] Really, that's a good question because like I said, I was really, really short.

[120] Maybe he was feeling that I shouldn't.

[121] You weren't going to grow?

[122] No, but he was thinking, I think, at that time that it's better off starting with pool because I can reach the table and then switch back to pyramid.

[123] But he wasn't expecting that I will be as good that I started to progress.

[124] really quick.

[125] I started to win amateur tournaments, you know, winning junior tournaments.

[126] Let's see that game.

[127] Pull up a game of Russian, how do you call it Russian pyramid billiards?

[128] Russian pyramid.

[129] Russian pyramid.

[130] It's, is it a larger table?

[131] It's a 12 -foot table with tiny pockets, bigger balls.

[132] So it's tougher to make the ball.

[133] It's a couple of a different game.

[134] It's fun to play.

[135] It's not fun to play if you never played any billiards.

[136] Are the corners or are they flat?

[137] They're flat.

[138] They're flat.

[139] So they're flat like a pool table, not like a snooker table.

[140] Oh, wow.

[141] Look at the size of that table.

[142] That's wild.

[143] Look at the tiny pockets.

[144] So the pocket is essentially the size of the ball.

[145] Almost.

[146] Almost.

[147] Wow.

[148] This is crazy.

[149] Why is it called Pyramid?

[150] Because of the shape of the wreck.

[151] I don't know.

[152] So, and in Russia, when you play this, you mostly play with an open bridge.

[153] right uh yeah most mostly they they use open bridge but uh for like heart shots i believe when they have to draw the ball and so you can use any ball uh it depends on the discipline you play so this guy is shooting this guy's some amateur i don't know what he's doing yeah he's just whacking balls yeah but at least we get a chance to see what the table looks like so there's one is that a red ball looks like a maroon ball so red ball is a cue ball there is a discipline where you where you have to play only with a red ball, kind of like pool, and there is discipline where you can shoot any ball.

[154] But it's the same thing.

[155] It's a race to eight balls.

[156] And whoever makes eight balls first ones.

[157] In any pocket?

[158] Any pocket, yeah.

[159] The thing about snooker players and I guess probably this Russian pyramid game, too, is that your fundamentals and your form have to be so perfect because the table is so big and the balls are so small than any room for deviation on your shot you have to really tighten everything up where as opposed to a lot of American tables those five inch pockets you know there's a lot of room for fucking around and sloppy shots will still go in yeah I mean that's that's the difference between the games I think fundamentals has to be really really good playing snooker and pyramid that's that's mostly what they work on and pool you can see all the players that have their own style, their own techniques, and they can get away playing some weird styles.

[160] Yeah, they can get away with bad fundamentals.

[161] Yeah.

[162] Well, there's some great players that had bad fundamentals.

[163] Like, have you ever watched Keith McCready play?

[164] Yeah, yeah, sidearm.

[165] Yeah, crazy, total sidearm, but amazing player.

[166] Oliver Orchman from Germany is the same way.

[167] Yes.

[168] Well, you know, that's because they started when they were young, and they couldn't reach the table either, so they had to have their arm sideways because they couldn't let it hang down normally that's my problem nowadays too because my stance I grew up with a wrong stance with like a straightforward stance as opposed to like a sideways pool stance yeah like a snooker table stance uh and Russian pyramid yeah yeah same similar right yeah and I I have to slightly change it every year because I'm still growing and I'm taller than the average pool you're still growing you're 22 you haven't stopped growing no no that's interesting yeah so You also have to bend at the knees, too, because you're kind of tall.

[169] So, like, to lock the legs out.

[170] So that's the thing that I always experiment with.

[171] I can play with one bent knee and with both bent knees.

[172] Yeah, because I was always taught to lock legs, that if you locked your legs, you have a more stable stance.

[173] But then I watch guys like Shane Van Boning, and he bends at the knees.

[174] Yeah.

[175] Well, every player is really different.

[176] you can see for example carlo or carlo beato or jason shaw they have their legs straight both of them yeah because they're not as tall as the other ones right you have both legs uh straight right yeah i always do that so i was taught i didn't used to do that though but then i got some pointers from someone max everley actually helped me with that max heberley coached me uh when i lived in l a that was the first i had some lessons when i first started out in new york from like there's a guy named Jimmy Abel that was like an old school straight pool player was a really good player and a few other guys like gave me some pointers and tips but Max gave me some like real lessons yeah and he changed a lot of my fundamentals and tight and everything up because I had a lot of like bad habits that I didn't even know I had that's the difference I guess uh what I'm talking about with Russia is that if you have a coach and you have a program you're you're it's probably like explain how that works is it like a very disciplined regiment that you guys would practice?

[177] I mean, not really.

[178] It may sound really professional, but what happened with me, I had four, five different coaches.

[179] And from the very beginning, I was, for example, as a seven -year -old, I had a coach, and I reached the limit that I could learn from one coach.

[180] And my parents used to always tell me, well, we have to switch because that's the only way to grow.

[181] And once I found that coach, the very last Russian coach that I had at the 13, when I was 13, I felt like I couldn't grow more because we don't have many professional coaches in Russia because the game is really small.

[182] Russian pyramid has many, many coaches.

[183] And I got really lucky because in 2015, Johan Rysing, he was a, Masconi Cup captain many, many, many times for Europe and U .S. He came to Russia as a national coach and practiced with a national team for two years.

[184] That's when things really changed, and I think I'm really grateful that it happened.

[185] Interesting.

[186] So you're playing pool over in Russia.

[187] Are there many pool tournaments?

[188] I mean, we have amateur tournaments every two weeks maybe, and one tournament a month.

[189] which called Russian Cup, which is kind of like a professional tournament.

[190] Just one a month.

[191] So you realized at some point in time that you were eventually going to have to come to America to pursue it professionally or Europe?

[192] Europe was my first step because we have a Euro tour.

[193] That's the major tournament in Europe that I started with.

[194] And that's the path that all the players have to go through in Europe.

[195] You have to play the Euro tours.

[196] And if you do good on them, then you can start really traveling and playing international tournaments.

[197] I watched a match with you against Oscar Dominguez, who I know from L .A. I've played in a tournament once against his dad.

[198] And his dad actually did that table out there.

[199] That really tight Brunswick, his dad cut those pockets.

[200] Oh, he's the best, yeah.

[201] He's the best.

[202] He did my old diamond at my house, too.

[203] Yeah, he's amazing.

[204] The best table mechanic in the business.

[205] Oh, 100%.

[206] Yeah.

[207] And, boy, they made those.

[208] He did all the hard times tables, and they were all brutal.

[209] Yeah, really, really tight tables, yeah.

[210] But I watched you play him, and what did you run seven and out on him?

[211] There was like this one match.

[212] How long ago was it?

[213] It wasn't that long ago.

[214] We played in his pool room in Sacramento.

[215] I think it might have been, yeah.

[216] I think it might have been in hard times, in hard times in Sacramento.

[217] But it was like you played a perfect match.

[218] Perfect match.

[219] It was beautiful.

[220] I mean, you got perfect on every ball.

[221] Is this it right here?

[222] It says the name of the video is absolute perfection.

[223] Fador Gorset versus Oscar Dominguez.

[224] Oh, yeah, that was this year.

[225] That's actually his pool room in Sacramento.

[226] Which is hard times.

[227] Yeah, he bought Hard Times, which is amazing.

[228] It's an amazing place.

[229] I played there once when I was doing stand -up comedy up there.

[230] So are you guys playing Ten Ball?

[231] Ten Ball, yeah, with the Magic Rack.

[232] Yeah.

[233] The Magic Rack for people that don't know.

[234] There's a regular rack where you put the balls in the rack.

[235] It's a wooden rack or a plastic rack, and it's shaped like a triangle.

[236] And then there's this plastic sheet that keeps the balls completely tight.

[237] And it's not a rack, like a normal rack.

[238] It's something that you place the balls on, and it ensures that all the balls are completely tight.

[239] So in a situation like that, obviously you know this is just for people.

[240] Yeah.

[241] The balls will spread very evenly or very, um, they have a similar reaction every time.

[242] So you're playing for specific balls.

[243] Yeah, yeah.

[244] You have more control.

[245] You can actually control the ball that you can make on the break where versus the regular wooden rack.

[246] It's not really like that.

[247] Yes, some people get upset at the magic rack because really good players, when they have a very good controlled break, they either make the one on the side or they make the corner ball, and then they play in position on the one with the cue ball, and then they just get out over and over and over again.

[248] But I appreciate perfection.

[249] I appreciate watching something like this where someone just gets dead on every ball.

[250] It was fun playing you out there too.

[251] Oh, yeah, me too.

[252] It was fun watching, you know?

[253] I honestly didn't think that you were that good.

[254] But you played real good.

[255] Well, I was just happy I ran out the first game on you.

[256] Oh, yeah, you put some pressure on me. At least I got one.

[257] I had to make some tough shots, too.

[258] That's a tough table, too, that four and a quarter inch yeah diamond diamond that's a that's not an easy table no it's not yeah but i got excited i was excited to play you because i don't get a chance to play i play my friend sean but i don't get a chance to play like real elite players i he wins some games yeah something i fuck up he gets out he gets out he can win some games but not like you you yeah well i appreciate it too my pleasure so um when you decided like pool as a profession is there's there's a small handful people they make a good living oh very small yeah yeah very small handful and then everybody else is just basically doing it because they have a passion yeah yeah yeah that's a strange thing to dedicate your life to like because a lot of people feel like there's it's one of those things where if you get really really really good at it you go damn I could have got really good at something else, and I'd be rich.

[259] For sure.

[260] Like, if you got really good at tennis, you'd be rich.

[261] Yep.

[262] We got really good at golf.

[263] You'd be rich.

[264] But honestly, the way I see, the game is growing nowadays, and the prize money is getting bigger and bigger.

[265] It is.

[266] Well, matchroom pool is doing a great job.

[267] They put on a lot of tournaments, and you could watch them on DeZone, the app, the streaming app.

[268] But it's an underappreciated game that occasionally blow up.

[269] up in America like during when the hustler came out everybody wanted to play pool and then there was like a lull and then the color of money came out with Tom Cruz and Paul Newman and everybody wanted to play pool and pool rooms exploded all over the country and it was on ESPN and then slowly but surely it kind of fades and it's it's in a position now where I think the internet is really doing a good job of bringing it back and I have some ideas of my own what I want to do and one of the things that I want to do is I want to host match is here and me and my friend Tommy from the East Coast who's a really good player do commentary and put it up on YouTube sure that's a great I think I think it'd be a fun too and to get a guy like you know maybe you versus a guy like Mika Eminen or a guy like Shane Van Boning and have you guys play matches absolutely for prize money that'd be fun yeah good right yeah I think I've been trying to figure out ideas to make pool more popular for sure yeah i mean that helps i think that's the best one is me do commentary because i can't play good enough to play in a tournament but i can you know i can play good enough that i understand what's going on yeah you know sure so there's a there's a hope well that sounds real good yeah so when you first started going to uh europe and playing how old were you then uh i was uh 14 when I went to, or 13 when I went to my first year or tour.

[270] So this is like your parents fund this or someone else?

[271] Do you have a sponsor?

[272] So what happened was when I was, the very first year of tour I went to, I was sponsoring myself.

[273] So I spent my own money out of my own pocket and did really good.

[274] I finished in the last 32, my very first year tour.

[275] And then my father passed away when I was.

[276] was 13 and two years later after like tough tough times one guy so I was always going to the pool room in Moscow trying to hustle people I was always 13 at 13 yeah I mean I was I was really passionate about the game and after school I was always going to the pool room trying to play with somebody I mean cheap like 10 20 dollars trying to make something And also, it's a good practice for me because, I mean, the more you play, the better you play.

[277] Yeah.

[278] And there was one guy, his name is Mike Nikolive.

[279] And I know he was playing worse than me, and we were playing for like 15 bucks per set.

[280] So I was going and, you know, thinking that, you know, it's free money, $45, win a couple of sets and go back home.

[281] I get there and I only had like 20 bucks with me I had no money and I ended up losing all of the sets all three sets I don't know I don't know how it happened but I lost everything and I told them that I'll pay I'll pay him later and then the same evening he messaged me you know what we have to meet again tomorrow and when I came to the pool room he offered me a sponsorship he said I'll take care of you, you can pick whatever cue you want, and, you know, we have to plan your career, and if you really want to make it, then I'll help you.

[282] Really?

[283] Just one match.

[284] You played one set against each other?

[285] Now, we play three sets.

[286] Three sets.

[287] I lost all of them.

[288] Yeah, but even though you lost, he still saw so much potential in you that he wanted to sponsor.

[289] That's interesting.

[290] Yeah, yeah.

[291] There was a lot of situations like this in my life honestly that I'm grateful, and it's absolutely amazing how it happened.

[292] So, yeah.

[293] Yeah, after this, we started with some European tournaments.

[294] I went to Norway, Sweden, some Euro tours.

[295] And I wasn't really winning, but I had a slightly progression.

[296] And I was always practicing and trying to get better.

[297] And, yeah, like I said, with Johan Rysing coming to Russia as a national coach, at the same time, that was perfect timing.

[298] Because Mike told me that we can possibly work with Johan individually later on, which happened and that's how it's all started that's so fortunate yeah it is isn't that crazy how that works a one encounter with someone can change your entire life oh yeah mike and his brother vladimir they uh they helped me so much and it's crazy how it happened and then then we went to derby city classic people saw how old were you then 16 16 at the derby city so much They wouldn't even let you in this year, right?

[299] I think you have to be...

[300] Last year, they changed the rules because of the casino.

[301] Yeah.

[302] And I didn't play the year before.

[303] Well, it used to be on a boat, right?

[304] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[305] Which is, like, there's a term riverboat gambler.

[306] I was good friends with this guy who was a really hilarious pool player who used to call everybody, oh, he's a riverboat gambler.

[307] Like, everybody who is like a wild, crazy gambler, he would call a riverboat gambler.

[308] So I thought it was so appropriate when they moved Derby City to an actual riverboat.

[309] Yeah.

[310] But I would imagine, like, do they have to deal with waves?

[311] Does the boat move?

[312] I don't know.

[313] I really.

[314] I mean, that sounds stupid for bull.

[315] It is.

[316] It is.

[317] I mean, unless that sucker's anchored into the ground, like, it's going to move around.

[318] Like, the balls could shift.

[319] Yeah.

[320] Like, if somebody drives by and leaves a big wake.

[321] Yeah.

[322] You know, the tables could move a little bit.

[323] So yeah, what happened was then the year after I came to Derby and I did good in that invitational tournament and on the side I used to always hustle and do something like bet on the matches and trying to win a little more.

[324] And then I actually what it was, I was playing that Invitational Temple tournament and me and my friend Maxim who was also was a pool player with me on the trip.

[325] we used to bet on me playing in that tournament on every match and we didn't know the person that we were betting on it was Alan and Jason the brother that came with me today so we were betting and betting and betting and betting and then I think the final match I got into the finals I played Roberto Gomez we asked them if you want to double or nothing or bet again and they said no we're good so I ended up losing and then they were staking Skyler Woodward at the time they were putting them putting Skyler in the tournament and I drew Skyler in round 10 of Derby City Classic and beat him 9 to 1 Wow Yeah He's very good Oh yeah he is he is he's still a top player today Yeah And that's how I met the other two brothers Alan and Jason That's another Oh that's crazy Yeah well Was Skyler on the Moscone Cup This year was the on the US team?

[326] Yeah.

[327] The Moscone Cup, for people don't know, is a really amazing event that they put on, where it's every year, it's in December?

[328] It's November of December?

[329] It's either end of November, beginning of December.

[330] It's a team match between Europe and the United States.

[331] So you have all the top European players, and they play all sorts of different ways.

[332] They play individually one -on -one.

[333] They play two versus two, which is very interesting.

[334] Like, if you and I were playing two versus two, and we were on the same team, you would make a shot and leave position for me, and then I would make a shot and leave position for you, which is interesting because some of the guys are left -handed and some of the guys are right -handed, so you have to leave position for a left -handed shot, where it would be awkward for you to reach if you're right -handed, but it's perfect for left -handed.

[335] So there's a lot of, like, weird thinking.

[336] And then on top of that, there's the wildest crowd in all of poor.

[337] But they're great, because they're quiet.

[338] when the players down on the ball.

[339] Yeah, I mean, they know what's going on.

[340] All of them are pool fans, and they know when they can yell.

[341] I wanted to get out to Vegas to see it this year, but I was just too busy.

[342] I really wanted to go, because it looks like so much fun to watch on TV because there's so much screaming and cheering when someone makes a shot, and then everybody quiets down again.

[343] Yeah, this year, that was as wild as it could be, I think.

[344] Yes, it was very wild.

[345] And Europe won this year.

[346] And unfortunately, you weren't allowed to.

[347] play for the European team?

[348] I was allowed, but I wasn't.

[349] They didn't pick you.

[350] I was just, I wasn't picked, yeah.

[351] That's bullshit.

[352] I mean, that's bullshit.

[353] I mean, yeah, I think so, too.

[354] I think it's bullshit.

[355] I think it's because you're Russian, 100%.

[356] I mean.

[357] It just seemed like they probably like, look, maybe it's not the best time to put a Russian player in the Moscone Cup.

[358] And it probably isn't.

[359] Maybe, maybe politically, I don't think they have a problem with it in America.

[360] No. Because like when Russian fighters fight in the UFC, no one has a problem with it.

[361] It's like when they're really good, you know, no one, no one cares.

[362] No. Honestly, this year, being in the United States, I stayed here since February and I had a lot of support from American fans and everybody treated me so well that I don't think there will be any problem.

[363] Not at all.

[364] No, this is a country of immigrants.

[365] Yeah.

[366] I mean, it's the whole country.

[367] There's no one, I mean, unless you're Native American, this is a country.

[368] Even them, most likely, some of them came across the Bering Strait a long time ago, or some of them might have been here originally.

[369] But this is a country primarily the vast majority of the population, their grandparents or their parents or some or them, they came from another country.

[370] So I think we're more accepting of that here.

[371] Yeah.

[372] I mean, it's tough, tough question for me because I still don't really know the real reason why I wasn't picked.

[373] It's 100 % because you're Russian.

[374] just tell you the real reason all right it has to be you're you're without doubt one of the best players in the world like i said i think you're in the top five of the world for sure like you could win any tournament in the world right don't you think yeah i can yeah any tournament you enter you could win yeah you're in the finals against who nick jason shaw whoever it is you have a very good chance of winning i agree yeah but that elite level when you get to that level the shame van bonings you uh dennis or colo like anybody can win Oh, for sure, yeah.

[375] And everybody, we have a different winner, every time, too.

[376] Yeah.

[377] But for the rare people that can win, like, the, like, how many times is Shane won the U .S. Open?

[378] Five.

[379] Crazy.

[380] It is.

[381] That's crazy.

[382] Or Earl, how many times does Earl win the U .S. Open?

[383] The same, I think.

[384] I invited Earl on the podcast, you didn't even get back to me. Earl is mad at me because I did an impression of him.

[385] Have you ever seen my impression of him?

[386] Yeah, yeah, that's great.

[387] But I can only do an impression of him because I'm a fan.

[388] Yeah.

[389] if I can do that voice, the only reason, the only reason you can do that voice, because you've watched my game.

[390] I'm a giant fan of that guy.

[391] When I was doing that, that was with Justin Collett from the Action Report, who was, play that, Jamie.

[392] For people who don't know, this is my best impression.

[393] Like, out of all the impressions that I do, I can do a bunch of, I can do like Mike Tyson.

[394] My voice is not good at impressions, but there's a few that I could do.

[395] Here, rewind.

[396] Justin with the action report .com.

[397] We're joined here tonight, live from Hollywood billiards in Los Angeles, California.

[398] Mr. Earl Strickland, ladies and gentlemen.

[399] Earl, how are you doing tonight?

[400] Pool is a beautiful game played by ugly people.

[401] Okay, first of all, how are you going to play pool if you're not properly equipped?

[402] Where's your beekeepers outfit?

[403] You don't have no ass weights.

[404] I don't see you in waiters.

[405] For people who don't understand, Earl is very eccentric and he wears, like, weights on his arms and shit.

[406] Yeah.

[407] You have to put Earl Strickland picture to understand.

[408] When I was a kid, you couldn't jump with a fucking jump cute.

[409] You and you're all pleased as punch.

[410] You got a big smile on your face like you just did something?

[411] Get the fuck out.

[412] I jump with a muci.

[413] I've jumped full table with a muci.

[414] How about that?

[415] How strong is that?

[416] What's your plans for the rest of the year, Earl?

[417] I mean, you've got a lot going on.

[418] A lot of it involves marijuana.

[419] I think that's what he got upset at.

[420] probably how does he know if you now play a video of earl strickland actually talking because there's a video of me and earl when i met him i don't even know if he remembers i met him i met him after that and he's like why are you picking on me i'm like i love you i'm a big fit they won't even shoot johnny archer rouser k and charlie williams rule all together okay it's good enough so it's my best impression it's the most obscure impression In all of the world of entertainment, and I picked Earl.

[421] It is.

[422] It's a perfect copy of him.

[423] I want you on, Earl.

[424] Come on.

[425] Come on, Earl.

[426] I'm your fan.

[427] That'd be fun.

[428] That'd be fun.

[429] I love the guy.

[430] I'm a giant fan of his, and he's absolutely one of the greatest, if not the greatest nine -ball player of all time.

[431] Yeah, and the greatest character in the game.

[432] Oh, my God, for sure.

[433] I mean, for people who don't know, he wears, like, tape all over the tips of his fingers, so it looks like he's got golf balls in the end of his fingers.

[434] weights all over the body too yeah he wears weights on his body so he stays still yeah he wears weights on his elbow sometimes sometimes he wears like shooting glasses like tactical glasses he wears giant headphones so he can't hear anybody i mean he's very atlantic too he runs every day yeah it's like thousand push -ups and seat -ups every day and he's you know super super accomplished and still to this day can play top flight world world -class pool and he's in his 60s yeah i mean he was on moscone cup yes he was on moscone played really well he's playing with like a very large tip now what is he doing he's good this is his new thing it's like a 14 millimeter tip it looks like he has some weird cue it's it's like a break you shaft with the break you feral but the playing tip and the i don't know it's like super super thick and uh he never lets anybody touches his cue so i don't know well he has tennis rap all over the yeah yeah yeah and he was the first guy i think to play with an extension completely, like, attached to his cue all the time.

[435] Yeah, and I think Shane Van Boning is also playing with an extension because of Earl.

[436] I think so, too.

[437] Yeah, I think he actually played Earl, and he's like, let me try that.

[438] Yeah.

[439] Oh, shit.

[440] There's something to it.

[441] I know you don't like the extension, but there is something to it.

[442] When you have that extension on, it seems like there's a little bit more momentum.

[443] It changes the balance, and that's what players like about it, I think.

[444] Yeah, like a lot of top players now play with at least a four -inch extension.

[445] Yeah, and a tiny one, too.

[446] the one inch extension oh really yeah just for just a little bit of weight out back just a little extra weight out back yeah I'm like I said I wanted to get Earl on but he didn't want to do it but I'm like I think it'd be interesting to talk to you because I just think your journey and just to be such a young guy and to make this trek from come from Russia and come to the United States now live here and play pool I'm just fascinated like what is that like is it is does it feel strange to you?

[447] I mean, it feels really strange, but it's been already eight months, so I got really used to that already.

[448] Do you have a permanent residence in America?

[449] So, I actually should apply for a green card this week.

[450] My girlfriend, Christina, she already got a green card last weekend.

[451] Your girlfriend plays too.

[452] Yeah, and she's good.

[453] Yeah, well, that's the key to a relationship with a pool player.

[454] You can't be playing with.

[455] You can't be playing with non -pool players or you can't be like have a relationship with non -pool players because they're not going to understand no it's tough i mean pool players they're traveling a lot and playing pool all day i mean how can you how can you like it if you're not no pool related i think you have to be involved so it narrows the dating pool for pool players like um like how many guys date pool players that are actual pool players like josh filler his wife is a pool player Tyler Steyer His wife is a pool player Yes I mean Who else There was someone else Whatever Yeah someone else But there are pool groupies Yeah And I found that out With my friend Johnny Because my friend Johnny Was a really good player When I lived in New York And like girls wanted to fuck him Because he was a pool player I'm like This is crazy He's a big fat guy Oh yeah But girls loved him Because he was so good He was such a good pool player.

[456] You know, I don't know if you've ever read this book.

[457] It's a book called McGurdy Life of a Billiard Hustler.

[458] Very interesting book about Robert Byrne wrote it.

[459] And it's about a guy who, you know, Robert Byrne, the guy writes all those instructional books.

[460] Yeah, I've heard of him, but I never read the book.

[461] He wrote this book about this guy who was a famous pool hustler in the Depression and traveled around.

[462] It's an interesting book for anybody to read, not just someone who's.

[463] interested in pool because it's about this person who's involved in just deep struggle like riding around on railroad cars and begging for food and you know it was it wasn't an easy life by any stretch of the imagination but um what was my point um i forgot my point oh that's this is my point so he they were they were in a pool hall once and uh nixon was on tv and he was the president and he was with this guy and the guy goes look at that guy president of the United States and he can't make a ball that's how pool players think they don't give a fuck about you if you can't play pool I mean some of them are like that yeah yeah no a lot of them are like that man that's like one thing that I'm proud of that's like I've played pool with some people and they're like oh you actually can play some pool well that's how I was today I played Mike's Siegel once and I broke and ran well I didn't break a rent out he missed a ball and I ran out the first set on him too and he talked about it on a podcast too wow I was I was very proud because he said you know that I'm a really good pool player I'm like oh Mike Siegel said that wow I mean that's an achievement yeah for sure yeah he has a podcast now it's him and Kim Davenport and uh David Pierce I think I saw it yeah the international open this year they were doing something yeah yeah yeah It's cool.

[464] I'm glad that people are, you know, because of the internet, there's like a whole thing with live streaming.

[465] So there's like live stream matches and there's live stream matches that people do for pay -per -view.

[466] Yeah.

[467] Which is really interesting.

[468] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[469] And it's also helping the game to grow, I think.

[470] Yeah.

[471] Yeah.

[472] There's still guys that don't travel and don't do anything and they stay in their hometown and they're like elite players too, like Justin Bergman.

[473] Yeah.

[474] Yeah, I mean, Justin is elite as elite as it could be.

[475] As elite as it gets.

[476] Yeah.

[477] There's a video of him.

[478] Pull of this up.

[479] Justin Bergman runs 18 racks.

[480] That's been recently, but it was on a bar table.

[481] It was on a bar table.

[482] Was it seven foot or a six foot?

[483] Seven foot.

[484] So it's not as impressive, but it's fucking crazy.

[485] When you watch him do it, it's not as impressive because he's playing on a smaller table.

[486] but I mean, holy shit.

[487] But also it's a nine ball with the magic rack.

[488] Yes.

[489] So it's the easiest game you can ever imagine on a pool table.

[490] Yes.

[491] Easiest game you can imagine on a pool table, but still.

[492] Yeah, of course.

[493] The guy ran.

[494] Now, he plays with one of these keelwood shafts.

[495] What do you think of those?

[496] I actually tried his shaft, and I'm the big fan, but I've tried a lot of keelwood shafts, and they're not, I mean, they're not as consistent as carbon fiber i think well it's it's a different thing because it's you have a different feel right yeah yeah completely different um but you know richard uh sue yeah he makes those tsunami shafts those are really good i've got one of those for my southwest i like it a lot and i'm gonna have it make me some for other other cues see it's very very personal when it comes to cues yeah you like extensions skill wood shafts I like non -extensions and carbon fiber and we could be playing completely different styles.

[497] That's what's great about Poole, I think.

[498] Well, I like carbon fiber too.

[499] I think it used to be back in the day people would play with fiberglass cues and they were a lemon.

[500] Like you saw someone playing with like a black fiberglass shaft.

[501] You're like, oh, this guy sucks.

[502] Because they kind of sucked back then.

[503] But then QTech, which is your sponsor, started sponsoring Earl, and then they eventually sponsored Shane and a bunch of other elite players, and they started making, like, really good pool cues.

[504] Yeah, yeah, they did, and I think they were the first ones that were making this fiberglass shafts that were really popular back in the day.

[505] Well, remember they used to make a wooden shaft that's covered in, like, a thin sheet of clear plastic?

[506] I think that's what Shane used to play with.

[507] Yes, back of the day.

[508] Earl, it looks like his was sanded down.

[509] Yeah.

[510] It looked like he sanded his shit out of that clear stuff and got down to the wood, and he was playing with, like, a very, small millimeter and everything goes like a 12 millimeter shaft probably thinner yeah how do you um how do you fall on like what weight to play with what millimeter to play with do you did you slowly evolve because you play with a fairly light cue you play with an 18 ounce cue for a lot of people that don't know that's on the lighter side and your your tip is 11 .5 12 .5 oh excuse me 12 .5 you used to play with the 11?

[511] I used to play with 11 .7 and I used to shape it down a little more so it probably was 11 .5.

[512] And that was that the Z shaft?

[513] No, that was actually the Jacobi edge shaft I used to play with.

[514] Actually, that's another good story.

[515] I came to Derby City Classic the very first time and Mike was a Jacobi Q's ambassador or he was a dealer in Russia and he said you have to pick a cue when we go to US and I didn't want to change my cue on the tournament right before where I start playing.

[516] And you said, it's all right, you can do it, you know.

[517] And I picked the cue from the wall, and I started hitting, and I really, really liked the cue.

[518] And I ended up beating like everybody.

[519] I played so good.

[520] That's amazing for me, because it never happened to me after.

[521] Like right off the rack.

[522] Yeah.

[523] That is unusual.

[524] Yeah, usually you have to experiment with cues and find what's better for you and what's with you.

[525] And that's actually how I found it, 12 .5 is better for me, and I've experimented so much that it's crazy.

[526] For me, it's so fascinating because what the game is, is you are rolling a ball purely with the force of your arm and the weight of the queue, and you're trying to calculate the exact or very close to the exact amount of revolutions a ball is going to make over the course of, like, a nine -foot table.

[527] Yeah.

[528] And for people that don't play it and don't know how nuts that is, like some of the shots that you made out there, I was like, damn.

[529] Because you were making these long shots, but you got within inches of where you wanted to be.

[530] Yeah.

[531] And that's just like a roll, one extra roll and you're fucked.

[532] Oh, yeah.

[533] You know?

[534] It's such a game of just millimeters.

[535] It's a game of millimeters.

[536] It's a game changer for sure.

[537] But that's why the feel of the cue is so important.

[538] Yeah.

[539] That's why, you know, and getting accustomed.

[540] to what happens with that lighter weight cue or that heavier weight cue.

[541] Like a lot of the older players, like Ephraea has always played with a very heavy cue.

[542] I think his cue was more than 21 ounces.

[543] Yeah, and they liked high deflection shafts.

[544] Same as all the agents.

[545] I don't really know the reason why, but they all like the high deflection shaft.

[546] Yeah, they like those stiff Southwest -style shafts.

[547] Yeah.

[548] Do you think it's just because that's what they started with and they're accustomed to what happens when you hit the ball?

[549] I think so, yeah.

[550] I think so.

[551] For people don't know what we're talking about when it comes to high deflection, low deflection, the way you hit a ball with English, so if I hit a ball and I hit a ball on the right side of the ball, it'll actually throw the ball off to the left.

[552] And so everybody calculates that when you shoot a ball.

[553] Like sometimes when you're aiming at a ball with a shaft that has high deflection, you're really aiming to miss, but you're aiming.

[554] with deflection so that you know that when the ball actually leaves the cue, it's going to kind of squirt off to the right and it'll make the ball perfectly.

[555] Yeah, sometimes you'll have to aim to the right side of the ball to hit the left side.

[556] Yeah, but all of that is only available in your head if you're playing all the time.

[557] Oh, yeah, it takes a lot of practice, of course.

[558] You get a feel for pool.

[559] When I was playing, when I lived in New York and I was playing every day, the best feeling in the world was when you're in.

[560] stroke like you've been playing every day eight hours a day and you can get out there and you can just fire balls in oh yeah you just have that you just have that touch and it just it comes and it goes it is yeah it's it's a crazy thing it doesn't really matter how how much you practice you have these days when you just feel everything like yeah when everything just comes together and you just don't miss and the problem with me is i like to work out and if you lift weights you're fucking your feels gone.

[561] That's why I'm very slim.

[562] Well, do you know, Willie Hoppy?

[563] He wouldn't even drive a car on the days that he had a match.

[564] Wow.

[565] Wouldn't even drive a car.

[566] He's like, I'm not touching shit.

[567] I'm just going to leave my hands.

[568] Well, I have my own things, too, and every player has them, but that's too crazy for me. But his was like he didn't want to use his arms.

[569] He didn't want any strain at all on his arms, even just turning.

[570] I bet back in the Willie Hoppy days, I don't even know if they had power steering back then.

[571] Oh, yeah?

[572] I don't know.

[573] Did they?

[574] What year was Willie Hoppy around?

[575] So Willie Hoppy, by the way, wasn't even necessarily always playing pool.

[576] He was more of a billiards player.

[577] Died in 1959, so.

[578] Okay.

[579] So when did they invent power steering?

[580] Let's find that out.

[581] Because, like, that makes sense, because I have an old Porsche, and it doesn't have power steering.

[582] And every time I turn the wheel, I got a fucking, you know, it involves a lot of strain.

[583] So maybe if he was playing, it was driving around some old bullshit car.

[584] Technically in 1926, but I can't imagine that it was fully in every car or everything by then.

[585] Yeah, it probably sucked.

[586] Even though they had it, it probably was terrible.

[587] Yeah, probably.

[588] But, yeah, lifting weights is the worst.

[589] Like, I'll come here from the gym and then I'll try to play with Sean and I can't make a ball.

[590] Yeah, you feel like it's like a toothpick to you, right?

[591] No, just your arm's not communicating with you right.

[592] But it's actually really good to play after your workout, because then your muscle memory kicks in, and after practice sessions like this, you will be playing better.

[593] Maybe.

[594] I think the only thing, your arms are exhausted, though, when you work out.

[595] So, like, all the muscle fibers are torn, and they have to sort of rebuild.

[596] And so the communication with your arm is like, it's like your arm's drunk.

[597] It's not thinking well.

[598] I think it might not be a bad time to practice, just to, like, set up some balls and just practice using the weight of the cue and stroke through it.

[599] But if I had to play, like, a serious game and I just worked out, I'd be fucked.

[600] I don't have any confidence.

[601] Of course, yeah.

[602] It's the worst thing.

[603] Yeah.

[604] Do you do anything before you play, like, get a massage or anything like that?

[605] Does that ever help you?

[606] Yeah, I stretch a lot.

[607] So, yeah, I have a lot of problems with my back because of the way.

[608] that I grew up and the way I had my stents set up when I was a kid.

[609] So I have to stretch every day after the practice and before every morning.

[610] What part of your back?

[611] Your lower back?

[612] The lower back, yeah.

[613] Have you ever done anything to strengthen that?

[614] I'm doing some core exercises, yeah.

[615] I mean, I'm doing some planking, but I'm not very into it.

[616] You're not very into exercise?

[617] No, but I want to be.

[618] You want to be?

[619] Yeah.

[620] Yeah.

[621] Well, there's a bunch of things that you can do for lower back that can help you a lot.

[622] I'll show you afterwards.

[623] We have a gym next door.

[624] Well, I bought a thing, the machine that called Hyper Extension, I think.

[625] Yeah, okay.

[626] That's what I do.

[627] I mean, that's for the lower back, right?

[628] Yes.

[629] Yeah, that'll help a lot.

[630] Yeah.

[631] There's another machine called the Reverse Hyper, which is amazing.

[632] But it's a very specialized machine.

[633] You have to go to like a real strength and conditioning gym for them to have something like that.

[634] But that's really good because it actually decompresses your back.

[635] as well strengthens it yeah well the thing with me I have one side of my back which is really tight and the other one which is really really weak so I have scalyosis and it really makes difficult for me to strengthen both sides have you always had scoliosis or do you think this is I think it's pull related I think it's pull related yeah you know they've done these examinations of bodies of archers from like Like, you know, 2 ,000 years ago, like guys who pulled a bow.

[636] And so you'll pull a bow with your right side.

[637] So one side is pulling and the other side is just holding.

[638] And so you have one side that's, like, very muscular.

[639] And the other side, it's totally imbalanced.

[640] Like my friend John Dudley, he's a professional archer.

[641] And he's a professional bow hunter and he's an archery coach.

[642] And his back is so fucked up because for decades, he's just been pulling with his right arm.

[643] and so his right side is like his whole body's back's all funky because of that well it's kind of same for me but since i started to stretch and really take care of it it's been it's been better i mean i'm 22 and my back is already like 45 i don't know oh no yeah um have you seen the documentary on jeanette lee yeah well she had really bad scoliosis and i didn't know how bad it was which is so impressive that she was able to play so well because they put these giant rods in her back.

[644] That's crazy.

[645] Oh my God, the scar goes up her entire back.

[646] And there's all these screws and shit in there that's trying to straighten her back out.

[647] Yeah, I don't know.

[648] It's crazy.

[649] They don't have to do that to you.

[650] No, no, I didn't do any surgeries.

[651] But have you, if you tightened up the other side, if you strengthened up the other side, there's got to be some exercises that you can do to balance your body out.

[652] For sure, for sure.

[653] You just eventually going to do that?

[654] I eventually have to do it.

[655] Yeah, this is Jeanette Lee's back.

[656] Look at the size of that scar.

[657] I mean, that is like, that's crazy.

[658] That's like a two and a half foot scar.

[659] It is.

[660] That's her entire back.

[661] It's wild.

[662] Yeah, I don't want none of that, so I have to, I have to do that anymore.

[663] I don't think they do that anymore.

[664] I don't think they do it like that anymore.

[665] There's all sorts of things you can do.

[666] I mean, scoliosis is obviously a very complicated ailment, but there's people that believe that spinal decompression and strengthening and yoga exercises, Like, I was following this lady on Instagram, and she had scoliosis, and she fixed it with yoga and stretching.

[667] Well, I was going to some gym that called Functional Patterns or something like that in Russia.

[668] And they told me that I, they found some program that I can work just on one side for my back.

[669] And they, but, unfortunately, I can go back and do that.

[670] So I have to find something else here.

[671] And I didn't really have time this year.

[672] crazy i was playing pool nonstop how many hours of pool do you play a day uh like i said it's it's different when i practice and i don't have any tournaments i try to play more like six eight hours a day and just straight practicing but when i'm in the tournament season and just have a day in between the tournaments i played probably two three hours just to stay in stroke so when you say practicing are you setting up drills both drills i work on specific part of the game that are weak, and then I want to strengthen, and, you know, the brake, the jumps, geeking.

[673] There's a lot of different aspects in the game that you can practice.

[674] Do you break with one of those brake rack things, or do you just keep racking the balls?

[675] No, I actually ordered a break rack thing a couple of months ago.

[676] It's pretty sweet.

[677] It is.

[678] It is.

[679] Yeah, it's a great thing.

[680] I mean, it leaves a big white spot in the middle of your pool table because the ball keeps bouncing.

[681] Well, I put the double tape underneath.

[682] That's smart.

[683] Yeah.

[684] Yeah, but there's a bunch of those interesting inventions.

[685] that people have come up with.

[686] Yeah, yeah, it's super sweet.

[687] Yeah, when you have a great break, like a guy like Shane that has a killer break, like it's such an advantage.

[688] I watched a match once.

[689] I forget who he was, I think he was playing Kopini, and he was playing 10 ball, and he made six balls on the break.

[690] Yeah, I mean, break became so big nowadays that it's probably 80 % of the game playing 9 ball and 10 ball.

[691] Especially with that magic rack, right?

[692] Yeah, yeah.

[693] Yeah, I mean, with the wood rack, it's a little bit different.

[694] It depends who will be wrecking the balls.

[695] What are the rules?

[696] And I actually like the rules that they do nowadays.

[697] They have the referees at every table.

[698] Racking with a wood rack, and they don't touch any balls once they remove the rack.

[699] So it's completely random.

[700] That is probably better.

[701] As long as the referee is giving you a good rack.

[702] Yeah.

[703] The worst is when you're playing someone and they purposely leave a little space there.

[704] and you hear that slug sound.

[705] Yeah, that happened to me too.

[706] Yeah, it's going to happen.

[707] Yeah, especially on the big stage, big match.

[708] It's, I mean, it hurts.

[709] Yeah, well, there's so much at stake.

[710] It's room for shenanigans.

[711] Yeah, it's crazy.

[712] Yeah, but the break shot in pool is also, like, from a spectator perspective, like people don't like to see a soft break.

[713] They like to see someone smash the balls and then scatter all over the place randomly.

[714] That's why I really like the break.

[715] that they have now, because everybody's just whacking them and hidden hope and believe that something goes in.

[716] Yeah, well, there was a time where they were making people spot the nine ball on the spot because they thought that would help, but then people figured around that, too.

[717] I mean, pool players are figuring out the brakes so easy and so quick that it's a joke.

[718] I mean, it doesn't matter which format you create with the magic rack, they will always figure it out.

[719] Yeah, well, they figure out, they'll just practice all day and figure out which ball should be in which positions and whether to use a cut break where you hit it on the side or hit it straight from the middle.

[720] What do you think about like breaking from the box?

[721] When they had rules like that for a while, you couldn't break from the corner because you could make a better bridge off the side rails and people were hitting it harder and hitting it at that angle, you got more action on the balls.

[722] Well, they used that break and rule at matrim events nowadays.

[723] Really?

[724] They have a nine ball on the spot and break box.

[725] not like a tiny break box that you can break from and it's in the center so you really have to cut cut a lot cut the one ball and you still can make both wing ball and the one ball on the side but that's way way tougher that would be a place where I would think like physical fitness would come into play like if you were stronger you know you could if in that motion like maybe there's a thing that you could do with like bands or something like that where you develop a stronger break I mean, I saw a lot of different pool machines that develop special muscles.

[726] Really?

[727] Yeah, in Asia, they have them, but I never was...

[728] Yeah.

[729] They have, like, workout pool machines?

[730] Yeah, kind of, kind of.

[731] Can you find them online?

[732] I think so, yeah.

[733] What are they called?

[734] I don't know.

[735] I don't know.

[736] There is a pool machine called H -I -B -S in Russia.

[737] that the so it's like a round thing with the pool ball there and it just goes up goes around so you just keep shooting the cue ball and what the Asian machine has is you your cue is always going straight the same line so you're developing the right muscles and your muscle memory remembers the straight queuing are you keeling are you putting the shaft through a tube or something like how is it always going the straight line yeah it's kind of like a tube yeah because buddy hall had a thing like that for a while where he was selling it was like a tube that sat on a table a small tube with like little legs and you would make a bridge and you would the whole thing would be like sliding your cue through that tube i think it's it's really helpful i don't see these things and i think if i were using it when i was a kid it would help me a lot because some people they're queuing the ball and they don't even realize they're kind of going through the ball sideways.

[738] Yeah, and even myself, even myself, I noticed that it's not, it's crooked a little bit.

[739] Nobody's perfect, but...

[740] Do you film yourself?

[741] Yeah, that's what I did a lot when I was 16, 17.

[742] You know, I'm like a pool geek.

[743] I'm always trying to figure out what's wrong and work on mistakes, and I used to analyze a lot of things.

[744] Well, when you were 16 and 17, one thing that's interesting is that you had access to the internet.

[745] Yeah.

[746] You had access to pool matches.

[747] Yeah, yeah, I watched a lot of pool matches.

[748] How much did that help you?

[749] A lot, and that's actually what people don't understand, that they can learn a lot just by watching and not playing.

[750] You definitely can.

[751] You can learn a lot about where pathways that people, like a pro, takes.

[752] Yeah, how to run balls, the strategy of the game.

[753] You can even work on your fundamentals.

[754] You know the player Nick Vandenberg?

[755] Sure.

[756] he used to work on his fundamentals from what I heard through hypnosis so he was closing his eyes and trying to repeat the stroke while he was asleep yeah that's crazy that's next level yeah it is it is do they drug test people yeah these events what do they test for uh I don't know but we have a drug test on all the metrum events, I believe.

[757] One thing I think you should definitely drug test for is beta blockers.

[758] What is it?

[759] Beta blockers, they cut your adrenaline, so you don't get antsy.

[760] Like you don't get nervous when you're shooting.

[761] That's a big thing in pool.

[762] It's a big thing in pool.

[763] Yeah.

[764] Yeah, I think they use beta blockers.

[765] People have been caught using beta blockers for a lot of games because anxiety, and stress, which is, you know, look, if you can make a great shot under pressure, it's wonderful.

[766] It's a great feeling.

[767] Yeah.

[768] But if you had zero pressure, you would play better.

[769] A couple of different thing, of course.

[770] So if you were in a big tournament, but you were on beta blockers, you probably wouldn't feel any of those nerves.

[771] Like, I've seen people that are shooting a nine ball for a lot of money, and you see their hands shaking.

[772] Oh, yeah.

[773] And you see they have to put the cue down and...

[774] Yeah, take a deep breath.

[775] And sometimes I forget to breathe and you can see them.

[776] They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

[777] Well, Poole is one of those things where when you're, it's one moment.

[778] There's one moment.

[779] And you're playing, and maybe it's a race to 12 and it's 11 to 11.

[780] And you and I are playing and I have one shot on the nine ball.

[781] And this is for everything.

[782] And if I miss and if I hang that ball, you're going to win.

[783] But if I make it, I'm going to win.

[784] So it comes down to all this playing comes down to this one.

[785] brief moment.

[786] And the walls close in on you.

[787] He's like and it makes it very difficult for people if they don't have like a very specific mindset or pre -shot routine that they approach a shot with.

[788] They can get caught up in what's called like an open loop system where you just kind of like let the queue go.

[789] And we've seen you've seen that.

[790] Everyone's seen that.

[791] Yeah.

[792] They just missed the ball by like a full diamond.

[793] They dog the ball and you're like, what the fuck happened?

[794] Well he spazzed out.

[795] So do you have a pre -shot routine?

[796] Yeah, of course I do.

[797] Otherwise, it's impossible to play under pressure, like you said.

[798] What is your pre -shot routine?

[799] How do you do it?

[800] It's secrets, but...

[801] Secrets.

[802] Come on, give up the secrets, bro.

[803] I mean, now it's so automatically that I don't really think about it.

[804] But before I used to always stand up on the line of my shot and kind of visualize what I'm going to do, decide what speed, what spin.

[805] and how I'm going to shoot like I already visualized the whole process how I'm shooting the ball and I even can imagine where the cue ball will land after the shot and then once I figure it out and I'm ready to shoot I go down and then I do a couple of pre -strokes do the pose on my last back swing and then I shoot.

[806] Always pause.

[807] I always pose, yeah.

[808] Yeah, I love that.

[809] That changed my game a lot when I started pausing.

[810] Oh, it's way better timing and you can, I think you can analyze things better.

[811] Yeah.

[812] Some guys pause with the tip in forward.

[813] On the keyball, yeah.

[814] Yeah, and then they draw back and shoot, and some guys pause on the back swing.

[815] Where do you pause?

[816] I pose on my back swing.

[817] That's the buddy hallway.

[818] He was the first guy that ever saw do it.

[819] He had a long pause, where people called it the Buddy Hall pause.

[820] Yeah.

[821] Because he would, like, hold back and shoot through.

[822] And when Buddy Hall was playing, there's a great book.

[823] It's not a great book, but it's an interesting book that his road guy that he would travel with wrote a book about him and back in his day in Buddy Hall's day they all took speed they all took amphetamines so they were all like he was real skinny at the time and like these guys because they would play for like 12 hours 15 hours 16 hours they'd play until somebody went bust and sometimes They play for 24 hours, 48 hours.

[824] They would just keep fucking playing over and over and over again.

[825] So they'd be just whacked out on amphetamines playing pool.

[826] But the way it's been explained to me, I've never taken amphetamines, and I've never played pool on anything other than marijuana.

[827] Yeah.

[828] But which helps a lot.

[829] That's why I said that about Earl.

[830] Oh, yeah.

[831] Marijuana helps a lot.

[832] I don't know if you ever, do you ever smoke marijuana?

[833] Yeah, I did.

[834] Once upon a time.

[835] Yeah.

[836] It enhances feel.

[837] Like, marijuana, like, makes you more sensitive to things.

[838] And I feel like it enhances my touch, like, where everything's going.

[839] I could focus on things more.

[840] Well, it's also very individual, I think.

[841] Yes.

[842] For me, it was bizarre.

[843] It was a...

[844] Paranoia?

[845] Yeah, it wasn't very good.

[846] Especially playing pool.

[847] Yeah.

[848] Well, that can happen, too.

[849] Yeah.

[850] It's also something that you...

[851] I think marijuana is something that you have to learn.

[852] You have to learn, like, what the effects are.

[853] what's the right dose, how much to do.

[854] Like, I smoke it before I go on stage.

[855] I smoke it before I write.

[856] I used to smoke it before jiu -jitsu all the time.

[857] A lot of jiu -jitsu players smoke pot and roll.

[858] And I always said that it made my jiu -jitsu like quite a bit better.

[859] Like when I rolled and I was on jiu -jitsu, I was quite a bit better than I was when I was sober.

[860] Well, for us, it's illegal to do it on professional stuff.

[861] Right.

[862] For a reason.

[863] Yeah.

[864] Because I think it isn't, I mean, I've said this about jiu -jitsu, and I'll say it about pool.

[865] I think marijuana is a performance -enhancing drug with some things.

[866] Possibly, yeah.

[867] It definitely is for comedy writing.

[868] For comedy writing, marijuana is a performance -enhancing drug.

[869] It 100 % enhances your performance when you're writing for that kind of writing.

[870] Because, like, I write silly shit, you know, and when I'm silly with pot, like, silly ideas come to your head more often.

[871] But for those guys, when they were taking amphibious.

[872] What they said was, and I've talked to someone who has played on them, he said the balls, like you could see edges on the balls differently.

[873] Like it almost like where there was a bunch of edges instead of a round surface, they would see like a different geometry to the balls.

[874] I believe that.

[875] And they'd see lines more clearly.

[876] They were just like hyper focused and like, you know, just like laser.

[877] being locked in well that's the difference between pool players too like somebody is so talented and I believe that some players have a better vision like a better eye mm -hmm like Jason Shaw I believe he has like the best eye in the pool world to calm eagle eye yeah that's a reason yeah yeah no he's ridiculous yeah that guy can he shoots like long hard shots yeah and just fires them in yeah Yeah.

[878] He's another one of those guys.

[879] It's like there's, you know, there's this small, like we're talking about this small handful who could just beat anybody in the world.

[880] And he just won, he just beat, rather, the world straight pool record where he had, there was like, he touched a ball.

[881] And so they made it like 669, but he kept running and got to like 700 and something where the previous record, like Willie Moscone had a record back in the day.

[882] He was like 500 and something ball.

[883] But that was on an 8 -foot table, wasn't it?

[884] Yeah, and bigger pockets.

[885] Five -inch pockets, 8 -foot table.

[886] But he did it on a 9 -foot table.

[887] And then John Smith beat that, right?

[888] Yeah, 620 -something, I think.

[889] Right, and then Jason Shaw beat that.

[890] And Jason Shaw's not even a street pool player, which is crazy.

[891] No, and that's the thing with the shooters.

[892] Yeah.

[893] I mean, nine -ball players will take over.

[894] Well, that was the same with Earl, too.

[895] you know when earl strickland started playing straight pole he just start running hundreds and everybody's like jesus christ doesn't even play the game like imagine if he understood the patterns like those guys who play straight pool all the time oh absolutely it's uh it's completely different they they just never miss and for people don't know what straight pool is straight pool is the old school game that was in the movie the hustler with jackie gleason and paul newman and what straight pool was was always the king of pool games because you would play, whether it was to 125 points or 150 points, and you rack all 15 balls, and the opening break is a soft break where you're trying to leave no shot for your opponent.

[896] So you're just kind of clipping the edge of the ball, and you're trying to leave the cue ball as far away from the stack as possible with everything as close as possible, so there's no shot.

[897] And the pressure of a shot then becomes very high, because if you miss and you go into the rack and spread the balls out, a really elite player could run, like I saw Mike Siegel do that with a guy.

[898] The guy made a shot, missed, and Mike Siegel ran 125 balls and out.

[899] The guy never got a chance to shoot again.

[900] And that's commonplace with, like, the really, really elite players.

[901] Yeah, I mean, I played the straight pool tournament in October.

[902] And there was a group stage where I had to play five matches.

[903] and two matches I ran 125 and out we played race to 125 points and two matches I've lost that didn't play as good and the third match I ran 107 and I didn't get out through my group I just I finished fourth in my group so the level of players are increasing every year and I think the level of players right now is as high as it's ever been and I say this as someone who really respects like the old school players.

[904] Like, I love to watch, like, old school matches.

[905] But I watched an old school match recently between Jimmy Rempey and Mike Siegel.

[906] And I was kind of amazed at the shots they missed.

[907] Yeah, I mean, if you watch the game compared to what we play nowadays, it's completely different.

[908] Yeah, the best players, I think, ever, are around right now.

[909] No, 100%.

[910] But I think if you had a guy like Earl Strickland, still elite today.

[911] So maybe he's not the best example because he's continued to grow with the game.

[912] I think the best players back then, if you put them in the same pressure environment with the same level of play that guys have now, they would probably be at that level too.

[913] But back then, the players just, they weren't the same level.

[914] Yeah, but also the game was completely different.

[915] Their environment was different.

[916] The equipment was different.

[917] You know, they used to play in worn -in -cloth, really thick cloth, dirty equipment, dirty balls.

[918] So the break didn't matter as much.

[919] Everybody was just breaking hard and hoping for the best.

[920] Yeah, they didn't have a sophisticated kicking method either.

[921] I think when the Filipinos came here and guys like Ephra and started kicking balls to get safe, that's when people started really opening their eyes to what was possible.

[922] Yeah.

[923] And the back, like what's interesting to me too is, like the Filipino players, a lot of them played three -cushion billiards, and they learned how to kick by understanding how the balls are bouncing off the rails in a table with no pockets.

[924] And then because of that deep understanding of angles and how hard to hit in English, and they developed this, like, insane kicking game.

[925] Yeah, I mean, they all say it's a feeling, but in the end of the day, it's all practice.

[926] And there is many, many different systems.

[927] can use for kicking and i really believe that some of the philippinos are really super talented and they have that feel for kicking but uh a lot of shots they just use different systems yeah it's it's also really amazing how many good players come from the philippines oh it's unbelievable unbelievable i went to philippines when i was 15 what was that like uh it was crazy i went with my friend and uh i uh i was playing everybody you know i was playing a bartender that I couldn't beat.

[928] I was 15 and I was thinking I'm good.

[929] I mean, I was coming there to play good players, but I ended up playing everybody and I was just amazed how good everybody is playing over there.

[930] Like the guy who works 24 hours behind the bar just never plays pool.

[931] I mean, he's just a regular player in some random pool room can run a couple of racks playing nine ball.

[932] That's how crazy it is.

[933] For me, it's insane.

[934] And if you walked into the bar here or anywhere else, I mean, would you imagine that the guy will run a two -pack of nine ball?

[935] Probably not.

[936] Yeah, most likely not.

[937] It happened multiple times for me there.

[938] Really?

[939] So the level seemed higher there?

[940] Yeah, yeah.

[941] And the game is really, really big.

[942] I mean, the taxi drivers, they know, everybody knows who Ephraint Reyes is, you know, Francisco Bustamante.

[943] I've met people that are Filipino immigrants to America, and they'll tell me they're Filipino.

[944] I go, do you know who Efrin Reyes is?

[945] And they're like, Bata.

[946] Like, they know who he is.

[947] It's amazing.

[948] Pool is really, really big in Philippines.

[949] Well, pool came over the Philippines in the 1950s when the GIs were over there.

[950] So American GIs were over there, and they brought pool to the Philippines.

[951] And the Filipinos just took over.

[952] Yeah.

[953] It's pretty crazy, like, how that transpired.

[954] Because when they play over there, they're playing on very tough conditions because the tables are all damp because the tables are all damp because.

[955] it's very humid outside and a lot of times the tables are not balanced very well and the cloth is dirty and they use a lot of powder oh yeah they just throw it on the table this is crazy yeah they just leave it on the rails they leave stacks of powder on the rails yeah which is unheard of anywhere now and it's getting messy everywhere see if you can find uh there's these uh effron rea's matches where he still plays right now he's playing all the time he plays constantly and they put them up online.

[956] It go to Star Billiards, Ephraim Reyes.

[957] And so when he's playing, not only did they have powder all over the table, which gets on everything.

[958] It's all over the table.

[959] But every time someone's about to shoot, someone who's like either gambling or someone who's been assigned to it, comes over and marks chalk where all the balls are in case someone moves the balls.

[960] So That's a big distraction.

[961] And then there's 50 people around the table with flip -flops talking on their cell phones.

[962] Well, also the action side of pool in Philippines is huge.

[963] You have people betting every game, like yelling names before every game starts.

[964] And you have like chickens running around the table.

[965] Literal chickens.

[966] Yeah.

[967] I was watching Alex Paggillian.

[968] video and you hear that's very common in the Philippines yeah it's see do you have any videos from star billiards I don't know exactly what I'm looking at nothing's coming up from like a star billiards account yeah I'll find something for you it's pretty specific but the scene there is so fascinating because it's contrary to everything that you would ever expect in a pool tournament in a tournament other than the Moscone Cup where people are cheering in between shots in these in these tournament matches that they're playing there's so much distraction oh distractions every shot i mean they're trying to shark you too because if you're a foreign player coming to philippines they're most likely will be betting against you yeah oh yeah definitely um see i'll find something for you here hold on a second jamie this guy jeff guy ling g -a -l -n -g um yeah go to uh here i'll send this to you Here we go.

[969] Hold on a second.

[970] I'm going to share.

[971] Yeah, I sent you something.

[972] So this place, the way they do it, is the best preparation against someone distracting you.

[973] Because they're constantly distracted.

[974] So they learn how to like relax and focus.

[975] So here.

[976] Look at this game.

[977] Yeah, that's a typical game in Philippines.

[978] Everyone's smoking cigarettes.

[979] People are taking selfies.

[980] They're all surrounding, I mean, they are feet from the table, like moving around walking while the match is going on, with flip -flops on.

[981] You have to move them to shoot every ball.

[982] Like, imagine if you're that frozen on that back short rail.

[983] Yeah, you have to get in the corner and say, excuse me, and these guys are on their phone, and it's so normal.

[984] Now, look at the powder.

[985] So there's a stack of powder on each side rail, and the stack of powder is so that they can use it and keep the cue ball moving.

[986] moving slick through their hand but no one anywhere else does this no well you can also imagine how humid it is yeah he's just practicing right now he's he's getting ready and warming up so scoot ahead a little bit so you can actually see the match this is not the match for sure here it go now now he's actually playing so that fucking powder that shit gets on the table itself and it slows everything down.

[987] And it also makes the balls cling.

[988] They stick to each other.

[989] Oh, yeah.

[990] He's grabbing the cue ball before every game starts, too, and it gets on the cue ball, and then...

[991] But because they play in these imperfect conditions, because they're accustomed to it, they develop these amazing strokes.

[992] I mean, Ephraim's stroke is just a thing of beauty.

[993] And also, he...

[994] I think that's probably one of the reasons why they chose heavier cues because they were dealing with this very slow cloth because it was always dirty, humid conditions, so in humidity the balls don't move as well because there's dampness on the table.

[995] Oh, he was getting a spot from that guy.

[996] It looks like he's getting a spot.

[997] Well, you know, Effren's very old now.

[998] Yeah.

[999] He can't see very well, but the guy's still in action constantly.

[1000] Every, every week, I'm sure.

[1001] But look at this fucking crowd.

[1002] Look at all these people.

[1003] So this guy, Jeff Geiling, he has this YouTube channel where he's constantly showing these matches from the Philippines.

[1004] Yeah, that's the street there just...

[1005] Yeah, the door's open.

[1006] There's people on the street outside that can't get in that are watching this match because that's what kind of a legend effron is.

[1007] There's a guy sitting in the closet over there.

[1008] Yeah, he's in a fucking closet watching from the closet.

[1009] I mean, in any other pool room, like if you were in Texas and this was going on and you're gambling, you're like, get the fuck out of here.

[1010] Yeah.

[1011] Like, why is everybody near the table?

[1012] They're, they're right there.

[1013] They're like where I am, like right here.

[1014] Yeah.

[1015] They're that close to the table while some of the best players in the world are playing.

[1016] But it's really good practice, like you said, after playing in such a different experience.

[1017] Yeah.

[1018] Well, the Filipinos are what you call shark proof.

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] And what, what sharking is, people think of pool shark as being someone who's like really good at pool.

[1021] That's not what we call sharking.

[1022] Sharking for the people that don't know is.

[1023] is like if you were about to shoot and I moved and distracted you on purpose.

[1024] Like I'll wait until you're right about to move and I'll drop my cue.

[1025] Yeah.

[1026] Or I'll spill a drink.

[1027] I'll make some noise.

[1028] Like people do things on purpose to try to distract people.

[1029] Yep.

[1030] That happens a lot.

[1031] Especially gambling.

[1032] That's some bitch shit.

[1033] Yep.

[1034] Isn't it?

[1035] Oh, yeah.

[1036] They try it all the time too.

[1037] But it's some bitch shit.

[1038] When someone does that, that's bitch -ass shit.

[1039] Like, what are you doing?

[1040] Just play.

[1041] Well, there's a lot of moves even when it comes to throw players too.

[1042] Is there like what?

[1043] I don't really want to mention names.

[1044] You don't have to mention names.

[1045] So I was playing a guy a long race last year.

[1046] And for example, everybody knows, like, if you win, so we're playing a race to 100, and every day we're playing a race to 33.

[1047] So I ended up winning day one, and I should be the one breaking the balls next day.

[1048] so I come in and we're about to begin and he's like are we lagging again so I'm like no bro it's my break so there was a lot of a lot of different moves like we used to we agreed to play with one magic wreck and he ended up stealing the magic wreck and then we were on the break and I broke the balls make four balls on the break and I had that I was dead out and he's like are you practicing or what are you doing i'm like no we're playing i just asked you a minute ago are you ready to start and he's like i didn't say anything oh i was thinking you're you're practicing i'm like this is a professional who did this yeah i think you should say his name oh no everybody rhyme with huh what is his name rhyme with rine with what is it rhyme with what is it rhyme with like uh bogan rhymes with rogan uh filler everybody rhymes with diller everybody will understand He was a Filipino.

[1049] Oh, okay.

[1050] So he was, well, you know, they're probably gambling a lot of money, right?

[1051] We played for $20 ,000, yeah.

[1052] Yeah, yeah.

[1053] A big chunk of money, yeah, especially for Philippines.

[1054] Yeah, big chunk of money and people get, they get a little feisty.

[1055] Yeah, yeah.

[1056] In gambling, do you think that people take drugs when they gamble?

[1057] Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[1058] Look at you.

[1059] Yeah.

[1060] What do you think they take?

[1061] Adderal.

[1062] Amphetamines.

[1063] Because you can see, if you go to Derby City Classic, you will see people play for two, three days straight without any breaks.

[1064] That's a heart attack special right there.

[1065] Oh, yeah, it is.

[1066] It is.

[1067] And they play some crazy games.

[1068] These aren't the healthiest people in the world either that are taking this Adderall and staying up for days.

[1069] Like, they're fucking, they're burning it.

[1070] Oh, yeah, it's unbelievable.

[1071] They play some crazy -ass games, like 15 ball band game where you just...

[1072] It's an old man game where you just kind of clip the balls and you're just banging balls around for like 50 minutes.

[1073] So it's a bank game?

[1074] 15 balls?

[1075] Yeah, but there is a lot of moving part.

[1076] Like you just play safety, safety, safety is lower.

[1077] Until you have a good bank shot.

[1078] Yeah, and then after 50 minutes of playing safeties, you have a bank shot, most likely you're going to miss it.

[1079] And then it goes over and over and over, and they do it for like days and days.

[1080] So Adderall is the big one.

[1081] It is a big one.

[1082] I'm sure people play on cocaine.

[1083] I would think cocaine would be a problem.

[1084] I've never done cocaine, but for what I understand, it doesn't last that long.

[1085] No, but they're taking breaks.

[1086] And I've seen, one time I've seen the guy was using cocaine instead of the powder for his cue.

[1087] What?

[1088] That's an expensive powder right there, yeah.

[1089] He was putting cocaine on his fingers?

[1090] Yeah, and then doing like.

[1091] Oh, my God.

[1092] Yeah.

[1093] Yeah.

[1094] cocaine for baby powder oh my god that's insane he was he was fucked up like completely was he playing well he was playing decent i mean he's a decent decent player i don't know his name but uh he was just an action junkie well like i said about that book uh buddy hall i think it's uh from rags to rifleman is the name of the book i have a copy of it and it's a very old book and the way it was made it looks like it was self -published like the font would be different sizes on different pages it's a rare book you can still find it like sometimes on AZ Billiard someone has a copy of it for sale but it's pretty valuable now but they all played on amphetamines and they would all play for days and days and days but it fucked a lot of people's lives up because they all got addicted to that stuff of course yeah I mean I've played a lot of matches that lasted more than 10 hours.

[1095] And for me, it's really, really tough because I never do anything like that.

[1096] I drink water, and maybe I'll drink Pepsi if I feel that I need some energy, some sugar.

[1097] So, yeah, of course it gives them big advantage in matches like that.

[1098] There was a top player in New York in the 1990s.

[1099] He had a bunch of different names.

[1100] One of them was Waterdog.

[1101] other times they called him Buffalo Bill because he had this kind of crazy mustache.

[1102] I think I've heard about him.

[1103] Yeah, he was an elite player, but he was a heroin addict.

[1104] So he would go to the bathroom, and everybody knew what was going on.

[1105] He would go to the bathroom and lock the door, and he would be in there for like 10, 15 minutes, and then he would come out, and he would sit on the stool.

[1106] He'd sit on a billiard stool like this.

[1107] I mean, sit there for like 20 minutes, just like this.

[1108] like just gone just gone in the world of heroin just oh and then he would get up from that and he had shark eyes they were like the pupils were like fully dilated like a gerbil like you weren't even talking to a human he didn't even see you and he would get on the table and he couldn't fucking miss and there was a table at executive billiards it was a tight tight tables table one and that's a table where everybody gambled if they played one pocket or straight pool they were ridiculous pockets there were like four inch but it was a gaff pocket where whoever made the shims they were all fucked up they didn't line up that good so there was like they were rough on the corner so if you like clip the edge a little you're fucked you're not making the ball yeah and this guy couldn't miss i believe that it was wild because he was just like in this heroin fog with no nerves at all and he was just firing ball in and he was playing this guy named George the Greek and George the Greek was this character that was an old school hustler grifter gambler who he used to he used to race horses he would do those carriage races and they banned him from carriage racing because while his horse was winning he stood up in the carriage is trying to slow the horse down because people had dambled against him but he had a really good horse because he was he was the favorite to win because of this horse so he gets on he's standing up pulling back on the horse trying to slow him down and they he always his story was always that he hired william cuncelor and william cuncelor is a famous attorney consula consula is gonna get me out of this case these cocksuckers they don't know what the fuck they're dealing with.

[1109] William Kuntz was going to get me back on that track.

[1110] And so George wind up actually opening up his own pool hall in White Plains.

[1111] But for a while, he was like hanging around executive billiards.

[1112] And then he was a houseman for a while too.

[1113] But he was playing this guy, Water Dog.

[1114] And he was playing him for, they were playing for a lot of money.

[1115] It was like, I think it was somewhere in the neighborhood of $5 ,000 to $10 ,000 for like games of straight pool.

[1116] So they play like 150 points for like $10 ,000.

[1117] and he was so angry because water dog would come out of the bathroom like this and then just couldn't miss and he's like this cock sucker he goes with that fucking John and he's shooting up that shit and he comes out here and he can't fucking miss and so he was doing this to try to get water dog agitated but he was just like this like he didn't give a fuck George could be screaming in his face he was just like and he just couldn't wait to get back to the table and just fire in balls He was hitting it was beautiful to watch He had this just like I've never done heroin But I would imagine it must be wonderful Because the the flow that he had around the table It was something to watch it almost made you want to try heroin But he couldn't play without heroin And I didn't see him for years later And then it was 1994 And I had moved to Los Angeles And I was playing in the Hard Times tournament Hard Times was the big pool hall in Bellflower, California, where all the pros would go.

[1118] You'd go there on a Sunday night or Sunday day to play, and you could play Francisco Bustamante.

[1119] You could play Effron, Reyes, Oscar Dominguez.

[1120] You could play all the Max Eberley.

[1121] All these top, top pros were there, and Water Dog was there.

[1122] And I saw him, and I said, hey, man, what are you doing?

[1123] And he goes, yeah, I came here to play pool, but I need someone to get me in the tournament.

[1124] I'll go, I'll put you in the tournament.

[1125] you know because it was like I don't remember what the entry fee was it was 25 bucks or something like that you didn't have any money I was I'll put you in I guess yeah but we got to go get some shit I go what do you mean and he goes he goes I gotta get my shit I go where do you have to go get it he's like south central I'm like okay well go get it he goes I need someone to drive me I'll go I'm not driving you there because like back then if you got arrested for uh buying drugs they would take your car So I had a 1995 Toyota Supra It was the shit It was a Super Turbo Did you ever see one of those?

[1126] I can imagine Oh they're beautiful It had a wing on the back of it It was my pride and joy It's like I'd never had a nice car In my whole life And then all of a sudden I had this like I was on television Like I had this new car And he was like We gotta go get some shit I am not That's the car That's what it looked like Mine was silver It was beautiful That's what exactly exactly what my car looked like.

[1127] Oh, I love that car.

[1128] I still love that car to this day.

[1129] I might go buy one.

[1130] But he was so angry at me that I wouldn't take him to go buy heroin.

[1131] I'm like, dude, I can't.

[1132] They'll take my car.

[1133] And they're not going to take it.

[1134] I go, how do you know?

[1135] You don't even have a fucking place to sleep.

[1136] Like, they'll take my fucking car.

[1137] I'm not taking you to buy heroin.

[1138] So I put him in the tournament with no heroin.

[1139] And he couldn't make a ball.

[1140] Well, of course.

[1141] It was so sad.

[1142] He was just, he was angry.

[1143] Like, he was just missing.

[1144] fucking bha yeah I mean like you said there's a lot of players like this especially playing all this action matches yeah there's no rules do you ever notice like those players who are top players who play really well on drugs then they try to enter into a tournament with no drugs yeah and you see the difference of course yeah you can see they just play it completely different but it makes you want to try drugs doesn't it?

[1145] Not really no No, you shouldn't.

[1146] Well, you play so good without it.

[1147] Why would you?

[1148] Yeah, I mean, I kind of found the way you have to get better without them.

[1149] Well, just constant practice and technique.

[1150] And do you meditate at all?

[1151] Sometimes I do, and I think it's helpful, but I need to do it more.

[1152] Hmm.

[1153] Especially when I lose, you know, pool players, pool, pool is a mental game.

[1154] You can lose a tournament without making any mistakes.

[1155] And especially with pool players not making a good living, it can be super mental.

[1156] And I think meditating is really helpful to all the players.

[1157] Yeah, that's what people don't understand.

[1158] You could play really good and get bad roles.

[1159] Like you could miss, and every time you miss, you get lucky.

[1160] Yeah, or for example, you can get easier layouts.

[1161] After the break, you can get tough, tough layouts.

[1162] You can knock a nine in on the break.

[1163] Yeah, especially playing nine bowl.

[1164] There's a lot of luck -in -wulfed.

[1165] Yep, yeah.

[1166] And when guys start losing like that and they're down like seven, eight games in a row, you could see that tighten up.

[1167] They tighten up.

[1168] Like a real world -class player, and they might miss a straight -in shot.

[1169] Yeah.

[1170] Because it's so much pressure.

[1171] And especially these guys that are living hand -to -mouth, you know, like whatever they make that day is what they have for food.

[1172] And there's a lot of pool players.

[1173] like that.

[1174] A lot of pool players like that.

[1175] Which, on one hand, there's a beauty to that.

[1176] This is the beauty, is that they really just love the game.

[1177] They could just sell cars, or they could go, and a lot of guys have, right?

[1178] A lot of guys have gone on and just quit, and Dennis Hatch, he wound up becoming a car salesman.

[1179] And Dennis Hatch was a fucking killer.

[1180] Dennis Hatch was around, back when I was playing, and there was a place called West End Billiards.

[1181] I think it was in, Elizabeth, New Jersey.

[1182] See if that's true.

[1183] But it was a sketchy neighborhood.

[1184] Fucking sketchy.

[1185] Every time you go there, you would, like, go outside every, like, hour or so to check on your car just to get a look at it and look around.

[1186] Like, it was super sketchy.

[1187] But I went there, and I'm playing, and Steve Misirac is there, and Rodney Morris is there, and Johnny Archer is there.

[1188] It was crazy.

[1189] That was my first, experience as a young man with being able to enter a tournament.

[1190] Like, if you're a guy like me who sucks, you can enter a tournament and you might play the number one player in the world.

[1191] Yeah, that's a beauty of the game.

[1192] It's a beautiful thing.

[1193] Yeah.

[1194] And I would go there to those tournaments and watch those guys and just, there's no other sport like that where you could, you know the game like that, where you could be a low -ranked and you would at least be in the presence on the table with one of the greatest players it's ever lived.

[1195] Yeah.

[1196] You know, like I was playing right next to Steve Miserac, and this was when, you know, Steve Miserac was older, but it's still, my God, that stroke that he had, it was beautiful.

[1197] He just, he had this effortless stroke.

[1198] I mean, it was just this perfect, classic stroke.

[1199] He was a left -handed guy and he would get down on that ball.

[1200] You know, he was a big fat guy.

[1201] So, like, he wasn't moving anywhere.

[1202] He didn't need any weights.

[1203] And he would settle down on that ball.

[1204] And people would just watch him.

[1205] And you would see these guys just go, God.

[1206] It's just, I always say that pool is an art form that only the people who practice can appreciate.

[1207] Maybe.

[1208] Yeah.

[1209] I mean, most people don't understand how hard it is, how tough it is.

[1210] They don't care.

[1211] Like, if I'm watching pool and my wife comes in the room and I'm watching.

[1212] pool she's like what are you doing yeah I'm like look at what watch this just watch this watch this guy watch this guy strokes like well you have to try you have to try to understand how tough it is right you also have to have experienced like the feeling of making a really good shot to know how beautiful it is to watch someone just do that over and over and over and over again so it's not good that these guys are living hand to mouth but the beautiful thing is that they're doing it just because they love the game yeah absolutely they love that game otherwise i don't see any other reason why they do it there's a few disciplines that i really appreciate because the people that are doing are only doing it for the glory of the pursuit of excellence wrestling is another one like amateur wrestling there's no money in amateur wrestling there's no money in it there's no professional venue other than mixed martial arts when guys leave wrestling they generally if they're the elite of the elite they might go on to coach you know guys you know like mark schultz or daniel cormier they go on to coach kids or coach colleges but for the most part it's they're doing it just for the glory and the love of the sport and it's it's great it is great man it's that's one of the things that i want to try to do when i want to try to host these matches is try to just, try to get people to appreciate what I'm appreciating.

[1213] And it's very hard to do.

[1214] Like, it's very, not just to do the, but to get people to appreciate it.

[1215] Well, it's tough to explain what they have to understand.

[1216] Mm -hmm.

[1217] Because it's, like you said, that you will have to be doing the job.

[1218] You will have to be doing the right commentary for that.

[1219] Yeah.

[1220] But it's possible, I think.

[1221] I think it's possible.

[1222] I think I can get people to pay attention if I can do commentary and talk a little shit and have fun and make it fun make it funny and my friend Tommy then I'm going to do it he's a very good player too who was like he was a top player when he was younger but then realized hey there's no fucking future in this he was playing this guy he'll never he told me the story he said he never forgot it he was like 21 22 years old and he's he's a fucking stone cold killer I mean he's playing big money gambling matches Because, like, Tommy easily could have gone on to be a really good pro, easily.

[1223] Like, he was really, he could break around five, six racks in a row, excellent cue ball control, great shot maker.

[1224] But he was playing this guy, Neptune Joe Frady.

[1225] And Joe Frady was another guy who played at West End Billiards back in the day in those pro tournaments.

[1226] And he was one of those guys who always had a cigarette.

[1227] The cigarette was in between his fingers while he's holding the kid.

[1228] Oh, yeah.

[1229] Yeah.

[1230] And he played with his.

[1231] mouth open so he was like this older guy he was bald at his pot belly and he would get down the ball droned out with a cigarette in his hands with his mouth wide open like this and just a straight murderer just a killer on the table and Tommy was playing this guy and he was like look how good this guy is and he doesn't have a fucking pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of and that's what he said he said I realize I can't do this I don't want to be that guy when I'm age i don't want to be this guy who's amazing at pool but he's fucking just perpetually broke with no options and no future i mean yeah that's what most pool players i'm pretty sure that they think nowadays still like do i really have to do this do i have to really go through this or maybe i should change my lifestyle and do something else yeah i i went through it and i'm 22 i imagine all this 35, 40 -year -old players.

[1232] I mean, I thought that very much so when I was a young man, when I was doing martial arts, because I was competing for free.

[1233] I was doing amateur taekwendo tournaments.

[1234] They were very dangerous, and it was free.

[1235] I wasn't getting any money.

[1236] I was traveling, so it cost me money to travel these tournaments.

[1237] And you were watching people get knocked out and watching people get concussions and head kicked and shit.

[1238] And then I got an offer.

[1239] for a kickboxing fight it was like a professional fight and it was $500 and I remember thinking $500 I have to train for like six weeks I have to run I have to hit the bag and spar and do rounds and if I win I get $500 and there was no UFC back then and professional kickboxing was very small it really wasn't successful in America never took off and I realized like I got to find something else to do.

[1240] I can't do this.

[1241] It was also I was worried about brain damage too, but it was, you see that's a little different than pool.

[1242] It is.

[1243] It is.

[1244] If you lose, you get kicked in the face.

[1245] Yeah, I can't.

[1246] I can't.

[1247] That's not for me. But it's that thing where I felt like I was really good at something that wasn't even profitable.

[1248] I think where you're at right now with pool is different because I, my personal belief is like the stuff that's going on right now with matchroom pool and with a couple of these other companies.

[1249] that are putting on these streaming shows.

[1250] And I think you're at the right time where you're a young guy where Poo's, because of the internet, there's enough people following it where it's starting to emerge.

[1251] And then things like the Moscone Cup where people see it's so exciting that I think there's some momentum now.

[1252] I think you're catching the wave at the exact right time.

[1253] Yeah, I think so too.

[1254] That's why I keep playing.

[1255] I think so.

[1256] what are your do you have goals do you have like aspirations like what is what is your goal with the game so i mean it used to be i used to have goals every year based on my schedule it used to be like to win the world championships and i used to always have goals for every tournament i went to of course but uh this year it's been different i've been playing everything and everywhere i could have in the united states i flew in the beginning of of March and I played literally non -stop pool for six months straight just being on the road constantly playing in the bars and playing all the smaller events it was miserable but at least I was playing and I think it was smart coming here because I was still playing pool and that's what kept me in stroke for next year the goal would be to show my best game and on all this this official events because I'm finally back and I'm currently, I can't leave the country because I'm applying for a green card.

[1257] But I believe once everything gets approved, hopefully, second half of the year I will be able to go and play all this bigger events outside of the United States.

[1258] And that's once you get a green card?

[1259] Yes, so I need to, I need to get that's what called Travel Authorization, and then I'll be able to live the country.

[1260] Are you going to apply for U .S. citizenship?

[1261] Once I get a green card, maybe I...

[1262] Come on, bro.

[1263] Become American.

[1264] I didn't think that far, but there is a chance.

[1265] Don't you want to be American?

[1266] A lot of people want me to play for American Moscone Cup.

[1267] That would be crazy.

[1268] I think it would be good for the sport.

[1269] I mean, it would be a huge thing, but...

[1270] I think it would be great.

[1271] I think it's, people don't realize how tough it is.

[1272] I mean, to get a citizenship, you need to spend at least five years.

[1273] And then there's a thing called if you change your, if you change the country that you play for internationally, I think there is a quarantine that you have to go through.

[1274] I think you can't play two years in any big international events if you want to switch the country.

[1275] And so it's seven years for me to become a player representing the United States.

[1276] United States so but by then you'll be in your prime oh my god you'll be in your prime because like you think about the elite players the the guys that are the best it's like a lot of it's like between 26 and like 33 34 35 then when they get older it's like starts to slide it's very rare like Dennis Ocolo is still one of the very best players in the world and he's in his 40s right oh yeah Dennis I mean Dennis is a not a great example it's he's sick It's unbelievable what he does for his age.

[1277] He's sick, like physically sick?

[1278] No. Oh, sick, like unbelievable.

[1279] Yeah, yeah, yeah, no doubt.

[1280] And then Bustamante, he's 50.

[1281] He's still one of the best players in the world.

[1282] Yeah, I just watched his match on the stream the other day he was playing Darren Appleton, I believe, in Philippines, and it was unbelievable to see.

[1283] Yeah, he's still one of the very best players in the world.

[1284] And I have a framed photo of him outside.

[1285] here from the bicycle club which was a casino in Los Angeles and I think the tournament I went to see the tournament it was like 1995 back when he had a mullet you had like kind of like spiky hair and a mullet and he had this break that was like one of the craziest breaks that anybody had ever seen like he had the best break in the world at one point in time where he would he'd have his finger on the rail he'd break off the rail on the side rail and the queue would slide and the queue would slide out of his hand and then back through.

[1286] Oh, yeah, there is two Russian players that do the same thing.

[1287] Have you ever heard of Jani Stalif?

[1288] No. He used to be around that IPT time.

[1289] So I'm pretty sure you saw him play.

[1290] He does the same thing.

[1291] He's a very unique player.

[1292] He is like the Russian Pyramid Star.

[1293] Everybody who's involved in Pyramid World in Russia, they know who he is.

[1294] He won everything in his time.

[1295] And he was playing pool and went to IPT and finished fourth, I believe.

[1296] So he was a good player himself as well.

[1297] And he used to, when he was breaking, he used to lift his arm, kind of like Roberto Gomez, and, like, whack him, like crazy, crazy speed.

[1298] And every time he was breaking from the rail, he was doing the same thing.

[1299] The cue would always come out of the bridge, and somehow he would hit a certain spot on the keyball.

[1300] Yeah, I don't know how Bustamante did it.

[1301] I would watch, like, people, they would play it, they would focus on it in the replays.

[1302] they would give you a close -up of his fingers to show you, like, look how crazy this is.

[1303] Have you ever noticed that Bustamande aims?

[1304] Yeah, to the left.

[1305] To the left and then hits.

[1306] Wherever he wants to hit.

[1307] Yeah.

[1308] So his practice strokes, he's shooting left, like to the left side of the ball, and always low.

[1309] But then he might follow the ball.

[1310] He might hit it with right English.

[1311] So what they say, back when he was, back when nobody knew the game that well, they're saying that he was hiding the way he was playing and that's how that's how he was hiding the tip position he was putting on the I wonder if those guys got upset when people started using the measles ball probably I don't know so people don't know they don't use that anymore in most tournaments right yeah but the measles ball was a ball that they developed for television play where it had little red dots all over the ball so if you hit the ball with left -hand English or right -hand English, it was very obvious to anyone anywhere near because you could see the dots spinning to the left.

[1312] Whereas sometimes guys would make a shot, it was an incredible shot.

[1313] Like, what fucking English did he use?

[1314] How did you do that?

[1315] Like, what kind of spin did he put on that ball?

[1316] Because you really couldn't tell because it was just a white ball.

[1317] And unless you were like right on top where you could see the tip positioning when he struck the ball, you really didn't know.

[1318] Yeah, it's insane the way he plays.

[1319] It's unique.

[1320] Well, there's so many Filipinos came over here and robbed everybody it was amazing and the best version of that is effron when uh effron first came over here he had a fake name oh really yeah yeah yeah effron when he first came over here god damn it what was his name it was like a spanish name see if you could find it so he played his very first tournament under a fake name because he is God, I can't believe I can't remember it.

[1321] Generally, I can remember it.

[1322] But he played under a fake name because even though it was like the 1980s, he assumed that someone had been to the Philippines and knew that this guy was the king over there.

[1323] And then, can you find it?

[1324] Ephron's, just Google, Effron played under a fake name.

[1325] Yeah, Caesar Morales.

[1326] That's it.

[1327] So that was his name.

[1328] So he came over here under Caesar Morales and robbed everybody.

[1329] And then when he came back, he was Effron Reyes.

[1330] And everybody was like, oh, we got fucked.

[1331] There it is.

[1332] Season Morales stuns the field at Reds.

[1333] Wow.

[1334] And this was back when he was playing with a $5 pool cue.

[1335] He had a pool cue.

[1336] That looks like a Dennis Harko on the left.

[1337] It does look like him, but I don't think it is.

[1338] Because Dennis is quite a bit older.

[1339] Yeah, younger.

[1340] Younger rather than that guy.

[1341] But that was in Houston.

[1342] And what year is that?

[1343] 85.

[1344] 1985.

[1345] Yeah, so he came out, stuns the field.

[1346] He fucking came over here and fucked everybody up.

[1347] They had no idea that he would go on to be the greatest of all time.

[1348] Wade Crane.

[1349] Wade Crane was a bad motherfucker, Dave Matlock.

[1350] Look at all these guys.

[1351] Yeah, Mike Goliassi.

[1352] Wow.

[1353] Interesting.

[1354] Bobby Hunter, Danny D. Laverto.

[1355] all those names yeah Wade Crane also had a fake name he called himself Billy Johnson yeah Billy Johnson was Wade Crane's road name well on the internet wasn't around there was a big thing yeah well that was his he would go around playing as Billy Johnson because everybody had heard of Wade Crane and so he would just show up places and you know people had no idea and then he would rob him it's perfect yeah well there was a great book called Playing Off Thames have you ever heard of that book uh -uh playing off the rail was a book by uh this guy david mcumber who at one point in time was hunter s thompson's editor uh when he was writing for a newspaper um and we and uh they took this guy tony anagoni who was a really good pro and they went on the road with like 35 000 so like like like tape the money to his body and shit in some places and they did it for a book and the book is still available you can still find the book somewhere it's well worth it if you're a pool player if you're into pool to get this book because it's really david mcumber is a really good writer and it's really well written and tony anagoni uh became a friend of mine and i actually did commentary with him once on a match back in l .a back in the day and i became friends of them and played with them a bunch of times and uh tragically i think about a year and a half or so go he took his own life he jumped off the golden gate bridge oh yeah very sad but in that book they went to chelsea billiards they went to all these different places where they they hustled and they just set up matches and set up games and played people but it just gives you this kind of taste for especially because macumber's such a good writer it gives you this feeling this really interested interesting like depiction of what that life is like these guys that do things like that like you know wade crane did when he called himself billy johnson like that is a whole subset of americana where these guys would travel around stay in shitty hotels and gamble yeah i mean it's it's kind of the same picture nowadays still yeah there's still a lot of that oh yeah yeah it's it's fucking cool you know it's a it's a really cool part of like this subculture that people don't know about and i've always admired people who did it i always i always thought that was a cool way to live your life it's a crazy reckless but the people that did it they were such fucking characters there were such interesting people yeah i mean all of them it's it's a crazy lifestyle i don't know if i would recommend it to my kids but no but it's uh i mean yeah maybe you would if if pool becomes something really big you know if pool does grow to the point where there's million dollar purses absolutely but not the gambling side you know i went through i went through a lot of a lot of that and uh it's shady did you ever get in a situation where people pulled out guns or people were robbing people no but my friend did in philippines What happened?

[1356] He beat the guy out of a small amount of money and the guy didn't want to pay him and he wasn't even like pushing him to pay.

[1357] He was like 100 bucks.

[1358] But he was the only four in the building and he had a guy with him that took care of him and kind of made games for him.

[1359] And that guy started saying something in Tagalog in Philippi, in their own language.

[1360] And the guy pulled his, gun and like started shooting in the air like trying to say that I'm not playing here he was like an authority or something for a hundred bucks I mean imagine what to do for 51 ,000 gambling junkies yeah that's the thing gambling junkies it's not about the money for him right and there's so many of those guys that are connected to underworld characters there's all these you know wild gamblers that they're almost all, at least one step removed from criminals.

[1361] Yeah.

[1362] If they're not criminals themselves, they might have a criminal who's a backer.

[1363] Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of drug money involved, I think, in gambling.

[1364] Oh, yeah.

[1365] Oh, yeah.

[1366] There was always guys that were back in people back in my day when I was hanging around New York where there were these guys that were drug addicts or drug dealers.

[1367] They were selling Coke And they had that money And that was how they burned the money They would come in and gamble it Yeah, they're the same thing tomorrow Yeah I remember one time we went to Harlem To play this guy Because these pimps They would have a ton of money And they would play big money One Pocket And so we went down to Harlem And here I am this dorky, fresh fit I was your age I was like do I was hanging around in Harlem In this like fucking heavy duty like hardcore pool room where these pimps would go and gamble big money and they'd come in with flashy clothes on and it was just such a scene man it was such a scene it was so cool it was just so just to sit there I mean I wasn't playing those guys I sucked but I was with my friend Johnny and this guy Mount Vernon Tommy who was like a real top player from the area and they were all and this guy Juan who was also this killer and we would all go down together we'd take this drive down together to Harlem and at the time the garbage workers were on strike so all the garbage was stacked outside so when they would take garbage out to the curb nobody would throw the garbage out so there was six foot high piles of garbage that lined the whole street not bullshitting so you'd walk down the sidewalk and rats would be everywhere I mean everywhere.

[1368] You'd see the garbage bags moving.

[1369] They would scramble in front of your feet.

[1370] I'm like, oh my God.

[1371] Like, I grew up in the suburbs of Newton, Massachusetts, right?

[1372] That's where I went to high school.

[1373] And this very nice, you know, upper middle class neighborhood.

[1374] I was this fresh face, little cute kid.

[1375] And I'm wandering around with these degenerate gamblers in a pool hall in Harlem filled with pimps.

[1376] Wow.

[1377] But I got out of there.

[1378] I wouldn't trade those experiences for the world because it was so interesting to see that the subculture of these gamblers and pool players and all they cared about was like who's the killer like who's the guy you know and they all had these crazy names and everybody had these cool nicknames yeah oh my god it was it was such an amazing time but it's such that's what scares me about is like i think it's like it has it's right now it's got like we said this resurgence but there was a time where i think thought this could go away like this pool halls were closing the people weren't going to them anymore it was just like it was in LA they all went away and this is one of the reasons why it was really sad to me because in LA the big pool hall in town was Hollywood billiards and when I first moved to LA I played it the original Hollywood billiards but then there was an earthquake and Hollywood billiards the building got fucked up so then they had to move it and then they moved it to this place it was like much nicer and then it became instead of like this place where like it was a lot of players then it became a place where people would take their dates and they serve good food and they played nice music and it kind of changed and then it went under and then there was no pool halls in l .A. None.

[1379] L .A. as big as L .A. is no pool halls.

[1380] You had the House of Billiards in Sherman Oaks, the House of Billiards in Santa Monica, which I don't even know if it's still there anymore.

[1381] And then you had hard times which is quite a bit away that was like, Bellflower, which is like 50 minutes drive.

[1382] Why do you think that happened?

[1383] When was it, like 2010?

[1384] It was just, yeah, it was somewhere around then that Hollywood Billiards went under.

[1385] Because that video of me doing Earl Strickland, that was at Hollywood Billiards.

[1386] That was at Hollywood Billiards, the new nicer place before it went under.

[1387] So you'd have like a few players that would go there, but the vast majority of the room was filled with lemons.

[1388] They were all just, you know, ball bangers and people on dates and, you know, girls with, you know, hot asses, bending over pool tables trying to impress their dates, which is fine.

[1389] But, I mean, you need that to keep a pool room open.

[1390] But watching that place go under, I was like, God damn it, pool's dying.

[1391] Like, this is what it felt to me. It was dying at some point, 100%.

[1392] Yeah.

[1393] But, I mean, I got lucky when I was starting to play pool, pulled started to kind of making a comeback.

[1394] And in Europe, I mean, I never knew how it is in the U .S. until I came here probably two, three years ago.

[1395] Because all I knew is Derby City Classic.

[1396] That's the only tournament I went to.

[1397] And it's completely opposite to what the American Pool Scene is.

[1398] Right.

[1399] Derby's wild.

[1400] Oh, it's crazy.

[1401] If you never experienced it, it's even tough to describe it.

[1402] It's crazy.

[1403] It's first floor is the tournament, and then you go upstairs.

[1404] It's completely different life.

[1405] I mean, you have people just leave there in that action room for eight days, just playing nonstop, 24.

[1406] hours you can you have the players that come in at like three or four o 'clock because they were sleeping before just to come and play at three or four o 'clock with people that being playing for days and just trying to take advantage of them not sleeping it's it's it's unbelievable but yeah I mean it's it's definitely different did you grow up in like what kind of a neighborhood did you grow up in I grew up in Moscow Russia so it's like a Megapolis, big city, kind of like New York style.

[1407] And so you were probably never around those kind of people?

[1408] I was never around any gambling until I came on the road with Alan and Jason that broke me. Really?

[1409] So in Europe, you never saw gambling?

[1410] They don't gamble in Europe.

[1411] All they do, they can bet a little Vader on like a sparring set.

[1412] They can play for like 50 euros just to make it more interesting and a little pressure.

[1413] So small wagers?

[1414] Yeah, just to play and make it more interesting.

[1415] But gambling is really small.

[1416] It's getting a little bit bigger.

[1417] I saw guys play for like 20 grand last week in Romania on the stream and then Switzerland.

[1418] They gamble there, but it's nothing compared to US.

[1419] Why do you think that is?

[1420] Because they treat the game completely different.

[1421] Here, people in general, even the professional players, they would rather play than practice.

[1422] In Europe, I feel it's different.

[1423] People would rather practice and get better and treat it more professionally, I would say, than here.

[1424] There's some really good players from Europe that do a lot of instructional.

[1425] And they, like, Neil's fine.

[1426] Niels was actually my favorite player.

[1427] He's a great player.

[1428] I sent one of his videos to my friend Sean, we're talking.

[1429] about the paws where he's practicing strokes and he's just got these rock solid fundamentals but he was also a guy that didn't gamble either right i believe he gambled i mean i've heard the stories i don't know for sure but he when he gambled he came to the u .s i i believe he would never gamble ralph i believe that ralph would never gamble yeah same as torsten i don't think they but everybody was like you know they were upset because here is this guy who's a world beater one of the best players in the world and all he would do is play tournaments so there was a thing there was like a label on those guys like he's a tournament player well it's it's the same thing today it's the same thing today i mean i'm joking myself like i'm an action player i'm not a tournament player and you know they released the band and i'm a tournament player yeah i'm not an action player so uh yeah what do you prefer i prefer tournament because uh that's that's the lifestyle that i uh that i grew up and i like it you know i know what i have to work for i have i can schedule my practice sessions also it's not dangerous it's not dangerous and i mean nowadays you can make less money playing tournaments but uh that will change but the thing is like some of these top players the gamble but the way they do it they do it in a live stream and they make it like a one -on -one tournament yeah so a lot of a lot of matches i play it's pay -per -view so i'm getting an appearance fee as well but uh still it's completely different to tournaments i mean i'd much rather play tournaments and gambling matches would you rather play a tournament that's a short match though like a race to seven versus a game like you were playing with that Filipino gentleman where you could play like a race to 100 for three days?

[1430] Of course, the longer race would be better for me. Then the better player will win in the end.

[1431] Yeah, yeah.

[1432] Shorter races is okay because you can understand.

[1433] It's for to speed things up and for the viewer it's boring to watch a longer race.

[1434] I get it.

[1435] but of course I would prefer the longer race in the Moscone Cup when they do one -on -ones isn't it like a race to five a race to five alternate break yeah that's crazy but they have 11 of them at least yeah but that's a lot of races the thing is like race to five is so quick it is but when you have a lot of them it will even things up you know in the end the better player will still win and is it the Predator Tour that does the shootouts yes they have that strange format that they started with two years ago.

[1436] It's two races to four, and if you tie one -to -one after two sets, you do the shootouts.

[1437] So for people that don't understand what that is, they put the 10 ball on the spot, and you're behind the headstring, and you just see who makes the most amount of 10 balls in the row.

[1438] Yeah, I mean, it's exciting for a viewer.

[1439] Oh, yeah.

[1440] Yeah, it's a lot of pressure there.

[1441] There's a lot of pressure.

[1442] Do you like that, though?

[1443] I like the pressure, but I hate losing it.

[1444] Because every time I lose, I want to understand why I lost.

[1445] And you know, there's a good example.

[1446] So I played Ralph Souquet in Puerto Rico last month in that brother tournament.

[1447] The first set, I won 4 -0.

[1448] Played perfect.

[1449] And then I started off the second set.

[1450] I went up 3 -0.

[1451] Playing good, you know, broke dry.

[1452] and then maybe kicked one time and it's I lost the set I lost four to three and it's it's it's such a mental format that I was I was one wreck away from the win the match is never over with that format you know you it's it's it's tough to describe and I ended up losing in the shootout and you know you go to I missed one ball in the whole match how many when you did the shootout how many 10 balls did you guys make i made three and he made four so it's best of four shots and he made four of them what happens if you both make four then you move the cue ball back one diamond and it's a sudden death so whoever makes the mistake first loses so it's one diamond behind the headstring yeah so you're playing from the first diamond of the long rail that's a lot of pressure for all your cheese yeah win or lose they do that in the finals as well yeah i won uh i won three tournaments already that Predator Series once and one of them I played Carlo Biotto in the finals and shootout was decider there.

[1453] Wow.

[1454] Yeah, I mean for 25 grand you have to shoot one single ball it's crazy.

[1455] It's not a bad idea.

[1456] No, it's not, but it's absolutely brutal to lose that way.

[1457] I can understand.

[1458] I mean, I don't think it's the best expression of elite pool playing.

[1459] I think the best expression of elite pool playing is like a race, a long race.

[1460] But I believe that.

[1461] that formats like this should survive and they should be there for the viewing side of view.

[1462] I think it's a good format as an alternative.

[1463] Just like I think the Moscone Cup is good as an alternative.

[1464] It's an interesting way to express pool.

[1465] But I think as a person who just loves the game, I want to see like a race to 15, something like that, where it's like a real set.

[1466] Yeah, the real battle.

[1467] I agree.

[1468] I agree.

[1469] But in the end of the day, They're always trying to grow the game, and I think the viewership will help, and tournaments like this will expand.

[1470] No, I think so, too.

[1471] I mean, look, it's good that someone's doing anything.

[1472] It's good that Predder's doing that, and Matrum's doing that, and all these independent streaming companies are doing that, like Omega Billiards.

[1473] They have streams.

[1474] What's next for you?

[1475] My tournament schedule is already packed for January, February.

[1476] It starts with Turning Stone Classic in New Jersey.

[1477] Oh, that's a big tournament.

[1478] Yeah.

[1479] Official one, a ranking event.

[1480] And then the tournament before Derby City Classic in Louisville and then Derby City Classic, which is huge.

[1481] Then February, I have some smaller tournaments in Louisiana, some bar table tournaments.

[1482] Do you like playing on bar table tournaments?

[1483] No, I hated.

[1484] I saw you, you posted something on your Instagram about playing in Louisiana.

[1485] little kids tables yeah yeah i mean i hate it but uh there's a lot of money though there yeah a lot of them uh so you know what calcutta is yeah the calcutta's on the bar table let's explain to calcutta the way the calcutta works is like say if there's a bunch of people that are uh entering into a tournament like 32 players you can gamble by buying a player in the calcutta like if you were in a tournament and i could buy you and a lot of times it's an auction it's like so someone says, I have $100 on Fador, and I'm like, I got $150.

[1486] And then, you know, someone will give $200.

[1487] And then all that money gets piled up.

[1488] And if you own a player in the Calcutta, if you purchased a player in the Calcutta, when that person wins, you can get a pile of money.

[1489] And a lot of times they cut it with the player.

[1490] Like, they'll give the player a piece of the action so that they don't feel like, you know, they're getting fucked over.

[1491] because sometimes the Calcutta is bigger than the actual prize.

[1492] Always is.

[1493] Always is.

[1494] I mean, yeah, always, especially on a bar table.

[1495] Bar table can be huge sometimes.

[1496] Like, sometimes it will go over 150, 200 grand.

[1497] And what is the culture of the bar table tournaments and bar table pool rooms?

[1498] How much does that differ from the big table rooms?

[1499] Usually it's just the bars.

[1500] They're in bars.

[1501] So it's like louder.

[1502] Super loud.

[1503] music, smoking.

[1504] Yeah, all that, all that.

[1505] And I've had bad experience, yeah, went to East Malin, Illinois this year.

[1506] We were playing on Valley Bar Tables.

[1507] That's like...

[1508] Coin operated.

[1509] Yeah, bar tables was like five and a half inch pockets.

[1510] Yeah.

[1511] Was dead rails and smaller balls.

[1512] I mean, it was like absolutely crazy.

[1513] And, yeah, that was one of the places where I didn't really want to go out.

[1514] on the street just wanted to be in the corner of the pool hall and just waiting for my match and what was the bad experience about it i was just feeling that something could happen to me i don't know it's tough tough to explain but just the vibe of the pool room and the vibe of the city i didn't i didn't like it yeah you know uh it's it's in the middle of nowhere it was tough to get there i had to take a take a taxi from st louis four -hour drive and it was uh it didn't worth it i won't ever go back there it's interesting that some guys become like known for being bar table killers like dave matlock was always known as being like a bar table killer yeah i mean it's a different game it's a different game it's like a 10 -footer seven -footer nine football it's different seven -footers are a good equalizer because an amateur can play good on the bar table and he would absolutely suck on the nine -footer.

[1515] And, you know, you will have more players signing up for bar table tournaments because they will have a chance to beat me on paper.

[1516] So I think that's why they're bigger in the U .S. And that's part of the problem why pull is not there comparing to Europe.

[1517] We don't play on the seven -footers at all.

[1518] And also, it's treated with more respect over there.

[1519] Yes, that too.

[1520] And both in preparation, in the way people train and practice.

[1521] It seems like the European players, when you watch them, they have a much more uniform approach than American players.

[1522] Like a lot of American players, their styles vary so differently, the way they stroke the ball, the way they move around.

[1523] Yeah, but it's changing slightly, especially after your own.

[1524] Johan Rysing was a captain for Team USA and worked with him for a couple of years.

[1525] I think he kind of gave him an understanding how it could be done.

[1526] And players like Tyler Steyer and Shane Wolford, you know, young guns.

[1527] Tyler plays very much like a European player.

[1528] He looks like he could be playing for.

[1529] Yeah, he's very methodical.

[1530] He works hard.

[1531] He practices.

[1532] And I think he's a very good ambassador for all the players that you can look up to.

[1533] So your goal, you must want to be number one in the world, right?

[1534] I want to be, but it's not my goal.

[1535] What is your goal?

[1536] My goal is just to be, to just get better.

[1537] I don't have a certain goal that I want to reach, like, being number one, or when I won a world championships already.

[1538] I want to win it again, but is it my, like, primary goal?

[1539] No. Especially not knowing my schedule right now, I just, I just want to.

[1540] to play as good as I could and practice and get better every day.

[1541] Well, I think with that goal, that could lead you to be the best in the world.

[1542] I mean, you're right there.

[1543] Who knows?

[1544] Maybe I am already.

[1545] You might be.

[1546] You never know.

[1547] You're certainly in the conversation.

[1548] I mean, yeah.

[1549] And you're only 22, which is pretty wild.

[1550] And you're the first pool player I've ever had on this podcast.

[1551] So congratulations.

[1552] Thank you for that.

[1553] Thanks.

[1554] And all right, man. Let's wrap this up.

[1555] Thank you for doing this.

[1556] I really appreciate it.

[1557] It was great to meet you.

[1558] It was really fun to play with you.

[1559] Thank you so much.

[1560] And I wish you all the best of luck, and hopefully you'll keep on trucking.

[1561] Well, thank you, Joe.

[1562] It was a pleasure to you.

[1563] My pleasure.

[1564] All right.

[1565] Bye, everybody.

[1566] Bye.