230 - The Tide Pools of Your Life

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] And welcome to my favorite murder.

[2] The professional version of our podcast.

[3] It's the one you've been waiting for.

[4] It's the good one.

[5] You know, it's the NBR version where we're journalists, professionals.

[6] Oh, did you say depressive?

[7] Oh, my God.

[8] No. That's amazing.

[9] Hi, spinoff.

[10] What's up?

[11] We're professionals, depression.

[12] Time for the depression.

[13] Do you have to go into the office and you're super chemically bummed about it?

[14] We understand.

[15] Are you wearing the same sweatpants for the past two weeks?

[16] We get it.

[17] We're depressionals.

[18] But typing?

[19] The depressional.

[20] Our new sitcom on Quibi next month.

[21] Poor Quibi.

[22] Poor Quibi.

[23] No one will let Quibi.

[24] I know.

[25] Everyone's bullying Quibi on the playground.

[26] I know.

[27] I mean, really, Chrissy Tegan as a judge.

[28] I'm, like, kind of totally down for it.

[29] There's no problem with it.

[30] It's just, it doesn't, I think it's reductive to pretend that people want to be staring at their phones all the time.

[31] I don't think it's what any of us want.

[32] It's just a full -on addiction.

[33] It's like if they came out with designer syringes, we as the addicts don't want that.

[34] We're now doing this because we can't go anywhere else.

[35] We're not trying to up our heroin game.

[36] No. And, like, make it a luxury heroin game.

[37] No, I want something to look away from the phone for.

[38] That's my dream.

[39] These days, watching TV is an escape from your phone.

[40] It's, like, not anymore a negative thing.

[41] This is a little hell machine that we have to stare at in case someone's a common, but we don't want to.

[42] No. I'm having a hard time just with a little bit.

[43] A lot of bit.

[44] I am lately on my phone.

[45] yeah yeah I agree there's a lot of input and not a lot of positive I mean you have to look for it every day is negative every day is a new negative here's a pause that I'll give you because my sister texted this to me yesterday and I thought you'd enjoy it it's an interview with Bill Gates and the person asks what are the skills today's students need to know to thrive in the world of 2030 and 2040 and Bill Gates said for the curious learner they're the best of time these are the best of times because your ability to constantly refresh your knowledge with either podcasts or lectures that are online is better than ever.

[46] Do you think Bill Gates is a murderina?

[47] It's basically I'm saying he's a murderer.

[48] Oh, this is my favorite murder the podcast.

[49] Did we already say that?

[50] That's Karen Kilgara.

[51] That's Georgia Hard Stark.

[52] Hi.

[53] I definitely didn't say that part.

[54] How we not?

[55] Hi.

[56] How are you?

[57] What's going on?

[58] let me think it's been a stressful week but lots of lots of kind of conversations with my therapist that are like you know I'm on a boat and the boat is on high seas but that doesn't mean they're going to be the it's going to be wavy forever it's just how it is now these are the tide pools of your life and right now you're in the tide pool with like really angry fish these really angry small fish what were they called parrot fish those parrot fish with the teeth that are dicks but someday it's going to all be starfish and fucking those dick slugs there's going to be there's going to be whales winking at you out of the corner of their eye because that's the only way they can look at you because they're so giant it's going to be helping at all.

[59] My therapist gave me homework the other last week, which I usually am like, goodbye.

[60] That'd be great.

[61] You're like, I can't fucking do this.

[62] What are you talking?

[63] We've talked about my, I feel like I have a learning disability undiagnosed.

[64] Then yet you give me algebra?

[65] She's like, you know what you need to do?

[66] You need to find X. You need to find the value of X. You're the value of X, Georgia, all along.

[67] But it actually did end up being good.

[68] So, yeah, thank God for therapy during this horrible, horrible time line.

[69] Would you have to give us a general idea?

[70] Do you have to write something in a notebook?

[71] Did you have to like?

[72] I had to make a list of shoulds that I feel like I should be this place in my life and I should be this happy all the time.

[73] And I should be like cool, but also like feminine and like all my shoulds.

[74] You know what I mean?

[75] I should know if I want a baby or not, like those things.

[76] All bullshit.

[77] It was like, what?

[78] What was the dog from the Simpsons?

[79] Oh, yeah.

[80] The skate dog?

[81] Poochee.

[82] Of course you know, Poochie, the rapping.

[83] Poochee, that's right.

[84] Yeah.

[85] But also feminine.

[86] But feminine.

[87] Like, poochy, but feminine.

[88] Yeah.

[89] But then she said, then the next week after I read it to her, she was like, okay, now look at this list.

[90] Would you tell any of your friends that they should have all these things done already too?

[91] And I'd be like, no. Yeah.

[92] Yeah, that's very effective.

[93] Yeah.

[94] You go, like, it sounds fine to say that to me, but I, of course, I would never say that to anybody else.

[95] No, I like my friends messy.

[96] Yeah.

[97] Well, and also it's like, no, I bet you people have three babies and don't know if they should be having babies.

[98] Like, I don't think the baby thing ever feels like, and, you know, I'm sure there's some people are like, I knew it since I was dangerously young.

[99] But I don't, I don't know.

[100] I think it's all scary.

[101] How could anyone feel like 100 % about anything, especially these days?

[102] These days.

[103] fuck man um did you just slap someone i threw my pen down what have i slapped me it sounded like a good face slap right there remember the guy in the beginning remember all the like zoom mess -ups in the beginning of these times when people just kept fucking up on zoom and one guy like threw a cat his cat it was not just that cat it was his cat his own cat it wasn't just a stray cat there's a cat he was supposed to love did you see the one where the little girl was arranging the bookshelf behind her mom while she was on the BBC news.

[104] No, that's adorable.

[105] It was almost like that family was like, how can we try to be this super cute little girl that walks in while her dad's talking?

[106] And this little girl came in and started moving books on this top shelf kind of like in the back of the room while the mom was like clearly talking about.

[107] I didn't actually.

[108] I can't listen to news clips anymore.

[109] Like I can't risk hearing the things that then will like.

[110] rattle in my brain so I can't why don't listen to the audio of anything so that woman could have been talking about any number of things yeah yeah she could have been like how to train your children to reorganize your bookshelves you got to assume whatever it is it's not that I think that be a good assumption she's like I got this one trained in three weeks watch her go some pirates booty and a little bit of focus um do you let's see here oh I wanted to So a couple weeks ago, when we had our episode called The Seasons in the Abyss or whatever, right after we posted that, fucking Slayer, someone from Slayer, a lovely person named Emma, reached out to us and was like, do you guys want Slayer swag?

[111] I listen to the podcast.

[112] Because she's, I think she's with the management team of Slayer.

[113] Is that right?

[114] Yes.

[115] So, Emma, thank you for sending us fucking Slayer.

[116] Or even Vince got some.

[117] It was like, our birthday.

[118] So Jay on the Friday staff Zoom meeting was like, oh, someone named Emma from Slayer's management company reached out and asked if we wanted swag.

[119] And everyone's like, yay!

[120] It was company -wide.

[121] Even Jay, who's like a fucking deadhead, I was like, are you sure Slayer's going to fit in with your like, because he's got a lot of Grateful Dead stuff?

[122] He was like, nope, I fucking love it.

[123] It's great.

[124] Totally.

[125] Slayer is, Slayer crosses all divides for the depressionals.

[126] Slayer is the band, the boy who drove, the van, who wouldn't make eye contact and lady your real license because he was baked out of his mind.

[127] That's the shirt he was wearing.

[128] Who doesn't love that?

[129] Let's see.

[130] Oh, I also want to, we have a new, we have a new Phoebe friend of the podcast.

[131] You know how we collect Phoebe's?

[132] Phoebe Judge, Phoebe Waller Bridge.

[133] Oh, oh.

[134] there's another Phoebe would those two women declare themselves friends of the podcast are reclaiming them we're claiming them we're demanding now they might have mentioned us or been mentioned near us in an article once somewhere someday and so I think we make Phoebe Judge our friend I made up she doesn't know you just wanted the Phoebe to be in there all right who's our third Phoebe of this Phoebe Bridgers real talented gal She's like, she's like on the charts.

[135] But she said she listened to us when she was making her last album, Punisher.

[136] Yes, I fucking read this to you.

[137] This is every conversation I have with my sister.

[138] I told you this two weeks ago.

[139] Oh.

[140] I'm sorry.

[141] I've been in the not paying attention for getting things tied pool of my life.

[142] Hey, that's a tough one.

[143] That's a real, that can be a real, there's a real undercurrent.

[144] in that tide pool.

[145] Yeah, because it went, it was an article that was in pitch for, I believe.

[146] And our logo was in the image of all the things.

[147] Yeah, yeah.

[148] You're like, yeah.

[149] I bet her before.

[150] She was on a podcast that I used to record with Moonsapa, and she was a guest on it.

[151] And she was so good and played a song.

[152] And I saw her open for Connor Oberst, and it was amazing.

[153] Yeah, she opened.

[154] She opened for someone else huge recently.

[155] It was the 1975.

[156] Oh, wow.

[157] That's awesome.

[158] She's a big deal.

[159] Well, I'm the last to know everything.

[160] No, she's great.

[161] She's a real talented gal.

[162] One more Phoebe to the pile.

[163] I bet you there's more out there than we can get.

[164] Keep your eye peeled.

[165] Did you see that thing?

[166] You know how we said, like, enough with the McKenzie's and the Brooklyn's and the, there was one other one.

[167] One other name.

[168] McKenzie, Brooklyn, and Madison.

[169] Yeah, yeah.

[170] And then some gal tagged us in her Twitter, and it was herself and her two sisters, and their names were McKenzie, Madison, and Brooklyn.

[171] Swear to God.

[172] And it was an I feel attacked.

[173] Yeah.

[174] And they're like, we don't listen to you anymore.

[175] Fuck off.

[176] How dare you.

[177] Hi, McKenzie, Madison, and Brooklyn.

[178] Sorry.

[179] Okay, let's do merch corner real quick.

[180] Let's do it.

[181] Yeah.

[182] Is there some good stuff?

[183] Yeah, we have, like, we're finally updating our merch page.

[184] It's at My Favorite Murder .com, the store, and we have a puzzle, which I...

[185] We have a puzzle.

[186] Are you so happy?

[187] Honestly, it looks way too hard for me. It's, what I love is people are already sending, because we haven't, I don't think we've talked actually on the current podcast about the puzzle.

[188] Have we plugged it yet?

[189] I think we, like, mentioned it.

[190] So people are now sending pictures of them starting it or doing it.

[191] Right.

[192] Which is my favorite.

[193] And somebody sent a picture saying, this thing's going to be hard.

[194] And I was so excited because it is not easy.

[195] It's not for babies.

[196] No, this is an advanced professional puzzle.

[197] And I'm proud.

[198] And all my dreams are coming true.

[199] Thank you, Georgia.

[200] Thank you, Stephen.

[201] Thank you, America.

[202] It's all about America and Phoebe's and the depressionals have made it real and happen.

[203] It looks hard.

[204] I don't want to do it.

[205] No, you don't have to.

[206] You don't have to.

[207] But let others do it for you.

[208] No, it's so exciting, though.

[209] But I guess for me, we have coosies of that really cool thumbprint design that I love, too.

[210] So that's, I'll take the coosies.

[211] You take the puzzles.

[212] Yes.

[213] Well, also I like the puzzle because it shows a map of the United States that then has icons that show every city where we've done.

[214] it's like a bunch of the murders that we've covered right so it's a little like drawings and stuff that have to like a you know this and of that it's a little yearbook it's a little three four yearbook of all the things we've done so far it's very kind of fun and you know of course about us so that's exciting um the puzzle of course was made by jade young who did our merch or like the really cool poster for our UK tour super talented and like obviously a puzzle freak because it's it's super hard i mean she didn't hand cut the pieces or anything but yes she designed this puzzle she designed the heck out of it and she did it really fast so she did great awesome thank you jade for enabling us to have our own puzzle you're our enabler go to my favorite murder dot com to the store um yeah and get your our puzzle for your lake house you know it needs it also now we have murder, you know, sweat pants and, like, sweat, what they call them, lounging suits?

[215] They want to call them a lounging or a jogging set.

[216] But that's fucking sweat outfit.

[217] It's sweat.

[218] It's a sweatsuit for those who aren't that into sweating.

[219] Yeah.

[220] Right?

[221] Yeah.

[222] Should we do exactly right news highlight corner while we're here?

[223] Do it all.

[224] Read off that.

[225] Do you want me to do it?

[226] Okay.

[227] Sure.

[228] I'll be here with you.

[229] What do you mean?

[230] What paper?

[231] This is off the cup.

[232] You know how I memorized this monologue last night.

[233] So Murder Squad this week, they're doing the recent case of specialist Vanessa again, which is a really, I mean, we've been following this on our own horrifying case out of Fort Hood, the U .S. Army base.

[234] It's so sad.

[235] Condolences to her family and friends.

[236] So Billy and Paul are looking into that.

[237] And other unknown causes of death cases there, which is very interesting and like, yeah, I can't wait to hear, I can't wait to hear that.

[238] That's right.

[239] Bananas has Arden Mirren on, who's a really funny comedian.

[240] This podcast will kill you.

[241] They, Aaron and Aaron are covering radiation.

[242] I mean, the best.

[243] Who doesn't fucking love radiation?

[244] It's so good.

[245] Also, the Perkhouse, this is so beautiful, Stephen.

[246] You guys, they're covering the story.

[247] of Elijah McLean, who was a young black man who used to volunteer his free time playing the violin for local shelter cats.

[248] And he was murdered by police in 2019.

[249] You've seen his face and like the calls for his case to be solved.

[250] And so Stephen and Sarah are raising money to help to help that cause.

[251] Yeah, it's where essentially just wanting to shed a little bit more light on the case because there's so many cases and some.

[252] So we just wanted to take an opportunity to step, you know, step back, talk about it and, you know, encourage people to donate to the families GoFundMe.

[253] And yeah, that's, you know, simple.

[254] But I think it was important to tell his story because he's such a, he was, yeah, such a sweet person.

[255] That's so beautiful.

[256] He was a cat lover like you guys.

[257] And I love that you're, I love that direction you're going.

[258] And that's so beautiful.

[259] Because you're right.

[260] It's like all of these unsolved or, you know, these cases of violence or whatever are coming to the four.

[261] And it's just lovely that people are taking the time to kind of focus on them and help people focus in specific ways.

[262] I think it's really good.

[263] Are you guys still doing the fundraising thing?

[264] Yeah, the fundraising just started basically today.

[265] So essentially, if you go listen to the episode, there's more details.

[266] But if you donate to the Families GoFundMe and show that you donated, you basically get entered into a random drawing where you can win a copy of Stay Sexy Note.

[267] murdered, signed, and just some other percast stuff and everything.

[268] And, you know, it's, it's not, it's not an incentive to donate, but it's more of like a thank you, you know, we, you know, for us, you know, for our listeners to, you know, just give back a little bit, which.

[269] That's beautiful, Sarah.

[270] Thank you so much.

[271] Thank you to you and Sarah for doing that.

[272] And yeah, I, I love keeping the attention on this and that the police who murdered him need to be brought to justice.

[273] It's really important.

[274] And then the fall line, always doing incredible work.

[275] Their new series starts this week.

[276] It's about the Atlanta Ripper.

[277] Amazing.

[278] Really important.

[279] And then I said no gifts with Bridger, Weinerger, is our friend, Karen, friend of the podcast, Karen Kilgariff.

[280] What, I think my gift might be the best one he's been given so far.

[281] Check it out.

[282] You tell me what you think.

[283] I think I won the gift competition.

[284] It's not a competition.

[285] It wasn't until you showed up.

[286] That's for sure.

[287] Now it's on.

[288] That's right.

[289] That's a good one.

[290] We've got a nice, there's a nice lineup on exactly right this week.

[291] Lots of entertainment, all different kinds.

[292] What do you need?

[293] Lots more to come.

[294] We're working on it.

[295] Oh, so much to come.

[296] Yeah.

[297] Going to be so exciting.

[298] Are you watching anything right now?

[299] Well, we both talked about, so we're obviously watching All Be Gone in the Dark.

[300] Right.

[301] With Brent of the podcast, Karen Kilgareff making an experience, making a Karen, Phoebe, Kilgariff, yes.

[302] She's such a Phoebe.

[303] Can we make Phoebe?

[304] the like positive you know how everyone's saying karen's the negative how about phoebe is like the friend for a second i honestly thought you meant phoebe from friends and i was just like okay yes i'm liking this because phoebe remember when we met her at that party yes i was going to say that we saw and met her at a party she was so nice so um you know like just standing by the where people were getting drinks and somebody i can't we were talking to another person and then she just basically said, what do you guys talking about?

[305] Yeah, Lisa Kudrow.

[306] Lisa Kudrow comes up to our stupid conversation.

[307] It's just it was you and me in a corner.

[308] Just us talking about each other to ourselves.

[309] And fucking Lisa Kudrow walks up to our other Phoebe.

[310] So we have so many babies.

[311] That's what I'm saying.

[312] That's the first thing I went to because she was like kind of bent over her.

[313] She's like, what are you talking about?

[314] I'll always love her for that.

[315] And then we just, she and I chatted for like three minutes kind of about just it's just like that thing where everyone you have to remember this for people who hate going to parties and we will go again someday and if you're going now truly go fuck yourself for real you're killing people don't go to parties i mean parties are you are you a fucking child like please no please anyway um well you have to remember when you no one wants to go to a party everyone feels like they're the one that doesn't belong no matter who you are what you are whatever but if you're the kind of person that can just be like hey what are you talking about people will always be like i'll tell you anything i'm talking about because that's such a brave fun vulnerable thing that you just did yes of course on top of that you're phoebe from friends and everyone loves you yeah but still it's such a great move to make i mean you're opening yourself up right you have to keep in mind that there's someone at that party who's more uncomfortable than you are so chances of you going up to someone and being like, hi, I'm being open and like vulnerable, you're going to make someone have a better time than they would have.

[316] If they do some weird snobby 90s thing where like they make a face at you, then you can, you're allowed to slowly touch their face.

[317] Not yet, not right now, not in this climate, but I'm just saying in the future, in the future, because it's not a salt.

[318] If you just weirdly rub your palm, your kind of salty palm right down there, face or the back of your hand like the back of your fingers like slowly down the side of their face like you're a strange letharia walking through the party trying to seduce people then that's on them that their face just got touched if you're bored during quarantine there's no reason you can't make up fights to have when we're all out of quarantine make them up practice them go over them a time or two these are the tide pools of your life and sometimes you're in the imaginary future fight tide pool i'm going to stick with a stupid tide pole metaphor for it's very visual.

[319] I'm seeing, yo, you don't want to?

[320] I like it.

[321] Can I keep going?

[322] Okay.

[323] I just didn't know violent starfish and really scratchy rocks.

[324] I was like, what starfish is our band, the backup band for Phoebe Bridgers, us is now violent starfish.

[325] One, two, three, The titles of your life.

[326] The temples of your life.

[327] I just want to say this and I actually, I'm almost positive.

[328] I've told the story on this very podcast before when I spotted I was with Banana's boy Scotty Landis actually when this happened I spotted Colin Farrell I'm not kidding from probably 80 yards away I could feel him coming toward me it was magical but one -sided and then I was like had the full wave of like oh my fucking God is Colin Farrell and I turned Scott and I'm like it's good and he was already nodding very tiny at me just like Scott is like Scott is the most incognito person I've ever met.

[329] So he'll not give away your bullshit.

[330] No. No. Keep it like a secret.

[331] He didn't even turn his head.

[332] He was just like, I saw it, sat already.

[333] You know that, so did I tell you I saw Keanu Reeves at the, um, at the, uh, what's the, um, the mall on the corner of La Cienega?

[334] The Bev Center?

[335] The Bev Center in like 98 at the like height of my cuteness.

[336] You know what I mean?

[337] Like, it's all been downhill since then.

[338] But we were, come on.

[339] We passed each other on the escalator going up and down.

[340] And I swear to God, he gave me sexy eyes.

[341] Yes, he did.

[342] A little 18 year old.

[343] Sure, with your little choker and your and your barrettes.

[344] God, he was so, he, it was like, it was a dream.

[345] He was so.

[346] How long was his hair?

[347] It was like, it was like early Matrix.

[348] So it was like, it was like long short, you know.

[349] like slick flowy floppy on top but then short yes yes he was so gorgeous I'm sure he was like I'm gonna I'm gonna ruin the next five years of this girl's life by like giving me sexy eyes that's just like oh why don't okay okay see later I'm gonna be I'll be up at Sephora if you need me no there was no support it was night late pre -safora it was a wet seal I don't to be at wet seal you'll be like I'm going to be in the Macy's Estee Lauder section that's how backwards this society is that I have to buy makeup that doesn't match my skin right where is Mac okay here's here's something just to while we're here because I just had this thought when Mac makeup came out I remember yeah this came to me my it was 1990 or 1991 I lived in San Francisco my roommate Christy Ward who was also my roommate inside Sacramento.

[350] She was there for me the good times, but mostly for the bad times.

[351] And Christy, she was very hip and she was very into knowing all the new stuff.

[352] Thank God for her.

[353] She fucking was like, I was at Stones Town today and I signed us up for this thing.

[354] And it was a Mac tutorial that weekend.

[355] And it wasn't like out on the floor.

[356] We were in a separate like conference room.

[357] And the person, I think either who started Mac or was like one of the main early people was there and like, this is studio fix and like showed us this makeup that was not liquid makeup that covered all of my zits and all of my ruddy skin.

[358] But like in five paths and all the it was, I will never forget that day.

[359] I was like in the spice lip liner.

[360] It was like the 90s kicked off.

[361] They were like the first people that were like, oh, you live in Sacramento.

[362] Doesn't matter.

[363] You can look like a fucking candy raver from.

[364] Yes.

[365] And the.

[366] a club kid from New York, even though you live in Sacramento.

[367] And like, here's how it goes.

[368] And you're like, shit, I live in Sacramento, but I can look like a fucking candy raver.

[369] Here I am with my super powdery face, very brown lipstick for no reason.

[370] And a very dark brow.

[371] And here we go.

[372] Let's get into it.

[373] It was, I just think that was such a, it was a pivotal moment.

[374] Mac makeup was the reason.

[375] Christy Ward made it happen.

[376] Now, do we have a photo?

[377] We can put on the Instagram of this episode I think I have one of a Raver Day Candy Georgia I can post Do you have her candy Karen?

[378] Yes, but see my look was never anything like that because I'm older But you had the skin of like a girl who had on a lot like the skin.

[379] Oh hell yes.

[380] Okay, yeah yeah Let's get that to Stephen.

[381] And lots of lipstick.

[382] Okay.

[383] Even though it's Wednesday night right now and Stephen has been working all fucking day and he's exhausted.

[384] it.

[385] Stephen, when you make sure that we get these fucking photos that are probably in our basements and give them to you.

[386] If you could come over and look through my basement and I'm going to stay upstairs wearing a mask.

[387] Please wear a mask.

[388] Please wear two masks.

[389] You may be responsible.

[390] Well, you shared the Sacramento photo with your, I think it was your friend and your roommate.

[391] That's right.

[392] During those live shows, which was really great.

[393] That's true.

[394] People love that step.

[395] Patty Riley, that was a Patty Riley special.

[396] She listens to every episode.

[397] Hi, Patty.

[398] Petty.

[399] Oh, and also she's the one that had the Nick Terry shirt and got stopped on the street in San Francisco by another murder, you know, who freaked out, was like, how did you get that shirt?

[400] And she was like, they're online.

[401] I keep seeing on TV things happening and then just going, ah, the old days.

[402] I know.

[403] Four months ago.

[404] Or like, who you see on TV people like sitting near each other and being like, be careful, don't touch each other?

[405] And you're like, no, that's not real.

[406] It's not real.

[407] It's not real.

[408] Yeah.

[409] So crazy.

[410] Stay home, everyone.

[411] If you can wear masks, no matter what, it's not political.

[412] It's so, we're at this such a strange time.

[413] This is such a historically significant time.

[414] There's so many things kind of coming to a head all at the same time.

[415] We're probably yelling.

[416] We're preaching to the choir right now.

[417] I like to think we're yelling at people that actually are wearing masks in their own homes alone.

[418] All their pets have masks on.

[419] They're like, please stop yelling at us.

[420] We couldn't be more worried.

[421] But, you know, just in case there's some people on the edge or they're like, well, look, I just need to go to this party or whatever.

[422] It's like, there's much more to it than just you.

[423] God, for fucking bid, you consider that every once in a while.

[424] We know we're the depressionists.

[425] We're the depressionists who are also narcissists.

[426] We're original partiers.

[427] Like, all we want to do is go to a target in a party.

[428] Fucking, we do our best work at parties.

[429] We met at parties.

[430] We just, we destroy parties.

[431] We left so many parties early.

[432] Oh, that's so right.

[433] Number.

[434] There's some party.

[435] It was like a birthday party.

[436] You and I were like literally texting the whole time.

[437] Like, are you going seriously?

[438] Because I'm going to go, but I'm going to be mad if you're not there, blah, blah.

[439] And we got there, stood in the living room.

[440] And I was like, I got to leave.

[441] Was it your party?

[442] It could have been your party.

[443] Like at a bar?

[444] Was it one of those bar parties?

[445] Maybe.

[446] Or I was just like, you know what?

[447] I'm just too old to be doing this.

[448] I can't stand around with the kids anymore.

[449] I just love that about you have your close friends who are like, yeah okay goodbye like or don't even they don't judge you for it and not like no i didn't see you at the party yeah it's like no i know i know yeah but now man i'd kill for a party oh oh to be in a fucking dank sticky bar please with a bunch of fucking arrogant comedians who just like want to talk shit on other more successful comedians and like please mother's milk what a dream I'd love nothing more.

[450] Is this podcast about murder?

[451] Oh.

[452] Yeah, I guess we said this podcast was about murder.

[453] Here's what I think we should start looking forward to is how this podcast is going to begin to meld and merge out of a true crime podcast and into us tracking our own mental decline.

[454] Oh, okay.

[455] Right?

[456] All right.

[457] Yeah.

[458] What if I just stopped taking all of my meds today?

[459] What if I start taking all of your mess?

[460] Oh, my God.

[461] Met Switch.

[462] We don't recommend it.

[463] What?

[464] We're going to do it.

[465] We switched Karen Kilgariff's non -medication for Georgia Arts Turk's medication.

[466] And then you're like, is this Folgers?

[467] And you're like, what are you talking about?

[468] That's not coffee.

[469] You're drinking fucking pond water.

[470] It's not coffee.

[471] No, it's not pond water.

[472] It's my tide pool water of insanity.

[473] I have to.

[474] These are the tide pools of your life.

[475] God help me, who's first?

[476] Okay, it's me, right, Stephen?

[477] Fuck.

[478] Shit, I didn't look it up.

[479] Oh, so don't you care.

[480] I'm off this week, too.

[481] What, do you want my meds?

[482] Yeah.

[483] Oh, because it was a live episode.

[484] Karen is first, yeah.

[485] She's on it.

[486] Guys.

[487] Guys.

[488] Also, I wanted to mention that I saw Scotty Landis at a Shania Twain concert.

[489] We ran into each other.

[490] This was like two years ago.

[491] Not nerd.

[492] Not you.

[493] It's fine.

[494] it's so perfect was he wearing a cowboy hat no he wasn't I would I should have said yes for the story was he wearing a cowboy hat was he wearing a shania twain shirt I think so yeah like a shenai twain belly shirt I swear to God if you haven't listened to bananas those are two friends you're going to be excited to have met card and scottie good people love them Karen you know I'm all about vintage shopping absolutely and when you say vintage you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with Exactly.

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[509] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[510] Goodbye.

[511] Georgia, this week I'm going to do the Grim Sleeper.

[512] No, you're not.

[513] Yes, I am.

[514] Damn, Karen.

[515] It's been so long.

[516] It's been a fucking heavy hitter.

[517] Why not, right?

[518] But the thing I will say again, which is what I've said before, if you haven't seen Nick Brumfield's documentary, Tales of the Grim Sleeper, it's absolutely for any true crime fan, it's such required viewing.

[519] Required viewing.

[520] Because it tells the story of this serial killer that was in basically South Central Los Angeles for 30 years.

[521] And it's told by the people who live there.

[522] It's told by his neighbors.

[523] It's told by the local activists that were the first ones to get out there and say, what the fuck is going on?

[524] It's told by the people who lived it every day.

[525] And it's such a direct, like, it's such a beautiful way of doing that, basically letting the people who it happened to and it happened.

[526] and around tell the story.

[527] Right.

[528] And there's no filter.

[529] It's really cool.

[530] And it's, and you meet these amazing characters that literally Nick Brunfield just walks around like different neighborhoods in South Central and meets, introduces himself to people and lets them tell him the story.

[531] Yeah.

[532] It's amazing.

[533] And, and it's how it should be done.

[534] I love that.

[535] But for now, we'll tell it this way.

[536] And the sources, so of course, it's Tales of the Grimm Sleeper, which is an amazing documentary by Nick Broomfield.

[537] Also articles from the LA Times and the LA Sentinel.

[538] There's a couple articles from BuzzFeed that were written by a writer named Claudia Corner.

[539] And then there's information that I got from this 2008 LA Weekly article by a writer named Christine Pellasek.

[540] That's amazing.

[541] And I'll talk about it later.

[542] Very cool LA Weekly moment.

[543] you know from growing up here, the LA Weekly used to be this kind of stalwart local free paper that did amazing coverage on really big, important things.

[544] They were in the book, in our book, I talk about how the LA Weekly are the ones that did the kind of like the cover story on Scientology and the Scientology.

[545] Maybe I took this part out, but the Scientologist came around and took all the free papers and threw them away so no one could read their expose on the church.

[546] And this was in like the 90s.

[547] when the church was kind of growing in popularity.

[548] And it used to be, the LA Weekly used to be this amazing independent newspaper.

[549] It got bought.

[550] I feel like every town had this great alternative newspaper in the 90s where you could find out really, find out about cool artists and cool things happening and bad things happening and shows.

[551] And it just doesn't exist anymore, which is such a huge.

[552] Escorts in the back and the green pages.

[553] Right.

[554] Party in the front.

[555] It's a real bummer.

[556] really good stories in the front and then you could get if you wanted a little company that night okay so let's let's start it starts November 19th 1988 it doesn't start here but this is where we're going to get in because that's the night that 30 year old in Nitra Washington is walking down the street in South Central L .A. on her way to her friend's house they're going to meet up get ready and go to a party together again don't you miss it so as she's walking, this orange Ford Pinto with racing stripes, fancy rims, and high -end tires pulls up alongside her.

[557] So, Anitra later, we'll remember that the car looked like she told someone it looked like a hot wheel toy.

[558] The driver is talking to her through the roll -down passenger window.

[559] He asks her where she's going, what she's doing.

[560] He tells her he can give her a ride.

[561] She just says back to him, you can't just, quote, holler at me through car windows.

[562] You have to get out and talk to me. so he does he parks the car and hops out and again offers her a ride she remembers she said he is a short black man probably in his 40s and that he looked very clean cut almost geeky and so again he offers her a ride and he's being very insistent and when she says no he fires back and says that's what's wrong with you black women people can't be nice to you and when she hears this it makes her feel really bad so that manipulation works on her and she gets into the car.

[563] Oh, man. Because she's like, I'm being too, you know, he gets her, he knows how to manipulate.

[564] So he gets her kind of where she lives.

[565] So she's in the car.

[566] But once he starts driving, she realizes he's not going in the direction where she said her front lived.

[567] He explains he has to stop at his uncle's house to pick up money.

[568] He makes that stop.

[569] He goes into a house for a little bit, comes back out, gets back into the car.

[570] They get back on the road.

[571] And they're driving again.

[572] And then she hears him say something.

[573] something to her, but she isn't quite sure what it is.

[574] So she turns toward him to hear it better and suddenly everything goes quiet.

[575] And then that's when she notices that somehow she's bleeding from the chest.

[576] So she panics, she reaches for the car door, he stops her saying, don't touch that door or I'll shoot you again.

[577] And that's when she realizes that she has been shot in the chest.

[578] Oh, fuck.

[579] Yeah.

[580] So she's obviously in shot.

[581] and like the whole thing processed in the weirdest way.

[582] So she then asks, why did you shoot me?

[583] He said, because she was disrespecting him, when she tries to say, I don't even know you, he talks over her and is just blathering, rambling incoherently.

[584] At one point he calls her a different woman's name.

[585] Then she blacks out.

[586] And when she comes to, he's on top of her.

[587] And he's, as she drifts in and out of consciousness, he's raping her.

[588] And at one point when she comes to, she sees the flash of a camera and she realizes he's taking her picture.

[589] Oh, God.

[590] Yeah.

[591] She has no idea how much time passes, but at some point he starts driving again.

[592] So she like kind of comes back to consciousness a little bit and she reaches for the door handle again.

[593] And this time he lets her open the door and when the door opens, he pushes her out of the moving car.

[594] And so she's on the street.

[595] He basically leaves her for dead on the street.

[596] so she's laying there in the street and then this voice in her head says you have to get up you have to get up so she basically manages to crawl over to the curb and slowly push herself up using the parked cars around her and when she finally gets to like a slightly standing position she realizes she is on the street where her friend lives so she looks around just by coincidence well I think he like quote unquote dropped her off where she said she needed to go.

[597] Oh, God.

[598] So, but then she's like, oh, so she walks to her friend's house.

[599] She makes it all the way there with having been shot in the chest.

[600] Uh -huh.

[601] She gets there, gets up onto the porch, knocks on the front door, no one's home.

[602] So she's like, she turns around and realizes, okay, now there's no, the street is empty.

[603] I'm going to have to walk down to the main.

[604] street and flag down help down on the main street like you know half a block away so she starts down she she's like I'm gonna make it I'm getting you know she starts walking down off this porch and a car pulls up it's her friend and her friend's husband they finally came home so because she hadn't shown up so her friend gets out of the car is like we were waiting for you what's going on and she's kind of like almost yelling at her for being late yeah and she comes up on anitra and realizes her all of her clothes are covered in blood her friend starts screaming she's like hysterical and they call 911 an ambulance comes takes an nature to the hospital she's immediately taken into surgery and she ends up in the hospital for the next three weeks but she her life is saved and after about a year of like procedures and treatments and physical therapy anitra makes a miraculous recovery a year to a year after a year I mean, she got shot point blank in a car.

[605] It's so, it's an amazing that she lived at all.

[606] And that after that happening to her, clearly fully in chugged, she got herself like to this front porch.

[607] It's insane.

[608] It's incredible.

[609] So it's a year later, it's 1989.

[610] And she's outside of her house in Inglewood and a man walks up to her and asks her if she knows him.

[611] And she says, am I supposed to?

[612] And he doesn't say anything.

[613] He just turns around and walk.

[614] away and as he's walking away it slowly dawns on her the night she was shot her purse went missing and inside her purse was her driver's license with her current address on it that was the man who was her attacker what the fuck yeah so now we have to go back to the early 80s in south central and what is famously known as the crack cocaine epidemic um that that hit that part of town And this whole thing is a story in and of itself, and it's mind -boggling and horrifying, and many people believe, and there's lots of proof to believe that crack cocaine was introduced into these neighborhoods intentionally.

[615] It's really horrifying, and that's a different show, and I'm sure there's plenty of podcasts out there.

[616] so we'll just keep it simple and basically by 1985 crack cocaine is a full -blown epidemic in this part of town and addiction ravages South Central and families are torn apart that communities are I mean people you know as drug dealers are fighting over their turf addicts are committing petty theft to be able to feed their addiction right crime rates rise and especially murder so when the bodies of black sex workers start being found around the south central area in alleyways on roadsides in parks even in schoolyards these deaths are written off as being either drug or gang related or you know basically they're written off as collateral damage right um so basically the crack epidemic it becomes the perfect cover for one of los angeles is what will end up being one of Los Angeles's worst serial killers ever, if not America's.

[617] So through the mid -80s, more than 20 murdered women, the bodies of more than 20 murdered women are found, but many, many more go missing.

[618] And there's, and many more murders happen.

[619] These are just the ones that basically are all connected to each other and eventually connected to this killer.

[620] But that doesn't mean that, uh, and black women.

[621] and especially black sex workers were showing up dead constantly.

[622] So among these victims is 29 -year -old Deborah Jackson.

[623] Her body is found on August 10th, 1985, in an alley near West Gage Avenue in the Vermont -Slaasin area, South Central.

[624] She has three bullet wounds in her chest and ballistics will later determine that they have come from a 25 -caliber handgun at close range.

[625] Almost a year to the day later, August 12th, 1986, the body of 34 -year -old Henrietta Wright is found in Hyde Park.

[626] And then just two days after Henrietta's body is found on August 14th, Thomas Steele's body is found in the middle of an intersection.

[627] And they believe his death is connected to Henrietta's murder, but police never find solid evidence to actually back that up.

[628] That's just what people nearby believe and that that no essentially all of this is kind of feeding that idea that these black communities are simply quote unquote prone to illegal or criminal activity right dismissed right and and just all all kind of pile together like it's the same as it's the same kind of crime that's happening as gang the gang shootings or or drug dealing um instead of clearly a series a series of murdered women with the exact same MO every time.

[629] And that basically gives the LAPD free pass to turn a blind eye to these horrific murders.

[630] It's later discovered that the LAPD would classify these murders as being NHI, which is short for no humans involved.

[631] Because they're women of color, because they were sex workers because or and because they were addicts.

[632] They're not even human to the to the officers of the law who are supposed to serve and protect.

[633] Yeah.

[634] It's, I mean, it's unimaginable and it's the kind of thing, again, in this documentary, and you have to watch it because there's people that speak on this where there's this woman who is a local activist, and she's talking about that, you know, people were talking about, why didn't this guy get caught and why wasn't anything reported?

[635] And she's like, you can't as a black person just walk into your local police station and say, I have something I'd like to talk to.

[636] She's like 99 % of the time, that's going to end very unpleasantly for you.

[637] People don't, you know, that's years and years of that kind of hideous treatment that obviously they're not going to be running to the police to say we need protection because they're not getting it.

[638] I mean, this is the epicenter of Rodney King and the riots.

[639] This is, yeah.

[640] Which actually gets covered and then we have talked about this in the OJ Simpson 30 for 30 yeah that's incredible that kind of links all this up of what was happening down here and the way this this town has been segregated and yeah and the systemic racism that went into all of that okay so there are leads in these cases there are pieces of evidence that when these bodies are discovered that are running throughout each case So, for example, there's reports of a 1984 dark -colored Buick Regal, reports of a late model Plymouth Station wagon, and reports of an orange -colored Ford Pinto.

[641] But if they're followed up at all, I mean, they're barely followed up.

[642] Nothing is really ever chased down.

[643] And even though they question a number of suspects, they end up, like the theory becomes that there's something called the Southside Slayer, which was more of like a, a quote, evil force.

[644] than it was one specific killer.

[645] Which that doesn't even make sense.

[646] And it's basically just kind of saying bad stuff is happening over there.

[647] You know, there's not a lot we can do about it, which is totally insane.

[648] Yeah.

[649] So Margaret Prescott, who is a local radio host, she has a radio show called Sojourner Truth, and she's outraged.

[650] She knows that these victims, because these victims are black women, most of whom are sex workers or struggle with addiction, that the LAPD, is just blatantly neglecting their cases and she refuses to let them get away with it anymore.

[651] So in 1986, Margaret joins forces with other local vat activists and she forms the Black Coalition fighting back serial killers.

[652] Like she knew.

[653] It wasn't like, it's a four.

[654] She's like, we're fighting a serial killer.

[655] Everyone fucking knows.

[656] She said, and there's an amazing, she's in the Nick Broomfield documentary.

[657] She's incredible.

[658] And at one point she says, in the 80s, we at one point, we had a count of 90 women but only 18 of them made it onto the book so this wasn't the story that was actually when the story even got told at all the numbers were reduced so much and she's but she was like yeah this is this is outrageous so they start printing up um flyers and handing them out in front of grocery stores and you see there's there's footage from the 80s of this of this coalition the Black Coalition fighting back serial killers they're just going around flying and saying did you realize these women were found dead?

[659] Did you know there's a serial killer in this neighborhood?

[660] They're just going and telling other women you need to be aware and they just had to do it grassroots by themselves because of course it wasn't on the news nobody was talking about it and nobody was treating it seriously.

[661] So together the coalition hands out flyers and they inform the community about the serial killings.

[662] They demand that the police and city officials prioritize the investigations of these murders.

[663] They fight for more resources in South Central, and they fight to get the media to stop dehumanizing the victims just because of the jobs that they hold or the addictions that they have.

[664] Yeah.

[665] So despite the coalition's best efforts, the LAPD negligence enables this killer to continue murdering vulnerable black women for the next two years.

[666] So on January 10th, 1987, the body of 23 -year -old Barbara Ware is found inside a trash bag in the central Alameda area.

[667] And Barbara Ware was the third official victim that they knew.

[668] So at that point, because she also had gunshot wounds, at that point, they knew it was a serial murderer.

[669] But they didn't, and they talk about this in the documentary, they didn't tell anybody and they didn't treat it that way.

[670] therefore that she could have been the one and they talk about this like if this was some blonde girl that went to UCLA they the media would have been all over it but it nobody talked about it at all and so those murders continued but if it had gotten any press or any kind of traction as a story maybe those other girls wouldn't be dead now right but instead it all just got swept under the rug four months later 26 year old bernida sparks tells her mom she's going to go out to buy a pack of cigarette and she never comes back.

[671] Her body is found on April 16th, 1987, and she'd been shot to death with a 25 caliber handgun.

[672] On Halloween of that same year, 26 -year -old Mary Lowe says goodbye to her mother as she heads out for a Halloween party.

[673] Her body is discovered the next day, and she'd been shot to death.

[674] On January 30th, 1988, the body of 22 -year -old Lucretia Jefferson is found in the Westmont area, and seven months after that, the body of 18 -year -old Alicia Monique Alexander is discovered on September 11th of 1988.

[675] And both of these young women have been shot by a 25 -caliber handgun, and it's the eighth murder in three years with the exact same ammo.

[676] So in the case of Monique Alexander's murder, eyewitnesses tell police they saw her get into an orange -colored hatchback on Normandy Avenue.

[677] And that's the same type and color of car that witnesses tell police Mary Lowe got into the year before.

[678] The lead is never followed up on.

[679] Monique's father, Porter Alexander, told the LA Weekly that the investigation of his daughter's death was, quote, a big mess.

[680] They didn't put forth any effort, and they didn't show any aggressiveness about it, which obviously they actually started a task force to work on the cases that they called the task force actually the task force action.

[681] calls this series of killings the strawberry murders because strawberry is slaying for somebody who sells does sex work for drugs really so yeah yeah that's like that's who that's what they call i mean the the level of just a total lack of care or respect or anything is is just monstrous so aside from determining that all eight murders were committed with the same 25 caliber gun nothing comes of establishing this task force until 1988 when the killer meets anitra washington and like the eight victims before her the eight known and on the book victims we should say she shot with a 25 caliber handgun after getting into an orange hatchback but because anitra survives her attack she's able to provide police the first eyewitness description of the killer she tells him he's a black man who looks to be in his 30s with short hair and a geeky clean -cut appearance.

[682] And she also describes his car in detail.

[683] It's an orange Ford Pinto with racing stripes, rims, and high -end tires.

[684] After Anita's survival and her identification of her attacker, the murders of black women in South Central committed with a 25 -calibur -handgun suddenly stop.

[685] But that's not because the serial killer has stopped killing.

[686] He's just changing his ammo.

[687] So for the next 14 years, L .A. undergoes some drastic changes.

[688] While drug addiction does remain a public health issue, the crack epidemic begins to subside and crime rates begin to go down and LA becomes the second safest city in the United States, but that has a lot to do with the intense police violence and police brutality and the tactics that they used, which again is a whole different show.

[689] Yeah.

[690] But essentially that the the crack epidemic is waning a little bit so because the crime rates are coming down it's it's more obvious when like strings of murders happen now right right so in 2002 a 15 year old girl named princess berthamew is living in foster care um and she often runs away and makes money for herself through sex work when her foster mom reports her missing on december 21st 2001 she is not seen again until her body is found strangled in an Englewood alley on March 19th, 2002.

[691] A little over a year, it's so tragic.

[692] A little over a yearly.

[693] I think of all these crimes is like in the 80s and early 90s, but it's like that's so recent.

[694] And she's 15.

[695] 15 years old.

[696] So for for about 14 years between those crimes in the 80s of women just getting shot in the chest and done and having Right body's down.

[697] Things calm down.

[698] And then he comes back in 2002 with this horrifying.

[699] And a 15 -year -old, I mean, she's a baby.

[700] She's a baby.

[701] A little over a year later, a crossing guard finds the body of 35 -year -old Valerie McCorvey in a Westmont alley on July 11, 2003.

[702] And she's also been strangled.

[703] When the LAPD test the DNA samples taken from both of the.

[704] these murders, they are found to match eight cold cases from the 80s, the murders of Deborah Jackson, Henrianda Wright, Barbara Ware, Bernadis Sparks, Mary Lowe, Lucretia Jefferson, Monique Alexander, and the attempted murder of Netra, Washington.

[705] So newly appointed police chief Bill Bratton considers making a task force in 2004 to investigate these connections and these cold cases.

[706] But an unnamed colleague allegedly dissuades him from doing that.

[707] The connections and the potential leads in these murders and the proof of the existence of an active serial killer in South Central are basically ignored until 2007.

[708] It's New Year's Eve, September 31st, 2006.

[709] Laverne Peters gets a call from her 25 -year -old daughter, Janisha.

[710] Laverne's babysitting Janisha's four -year -old son at the time, and they're visiting other family members, and Janisha calls to tell her mom that she's finally got a place to live.

[711] She's really excited.

[712] She really loves the place.

[713] She feels safe there.

[714] The next day, January 1st, 2007, a homeless man who's looking through a dumpster on Western Avenue finds Janisha's body wrapped in a garbage bag and sealed with a twist tie.

[715] She had been shot with a 25 caliber handgun.

[716] So despite the obvious connection, Janisha's death goes almost unnoticed.

[717] The few news stations that actually cover her death, they don't even report it correctly.

[718] They say that she was stabbed.

[719] But while the media and the LAPD failed to inform the public of the return of the 25 caliber killer, a detective named Dennis Kilcoyne finally convinces Chief Pratton to form a task force to investigate these murders.

[720] And it's dubbed the 800 task force named after the conference room that the force initially gathers in at the police station.

[721] finally it's not a fucking derogatory name Jesus yeah for real ridiculous so the 800 task force is made up of six officers no outsiders are allowed no press no other police people that are working just the people that are on this task force and basically the existence of it is totally kept secret so but here's where the LA Weekly intrepid reporter comes in in 2008 a reporter for the L .A. Weekly named Christine Pellasek learns about the existence of the 800 task force and begins to investigate.

[722] Christine.

[723] Christine publishes an article on August 27, 2008, and it's the first anyone in Los Angeles reads in the general sense in the mainstream media, which is a free, the LA Weekly, you know, the free local paper about the fact that a serial killer has been on the loose in South Central.

[724] Central since 1985.

[725] I mean, it reminds me of Michelle McNamara so much.

[726] Completely.

[727] Well, listen, along with her thorough details on each murderer, Christine, also delivers a scathing critique of how poorly the LAPD and newly appointed mayor Antonio Villegroza has handled the entire ordeal.

[728] She writes the following.

[729] There has been no big press conference by Bratton who recently weighed in on Lindsay Lohan's love life.

[730] The camera -loving Villagoza recently beseeched the public to eat nutritiously.

[731] Unlike city leaders who decried the BTK killer near Kansas City and the Green River killer who terrorized Seattle, Los Angeles's City Hall is either unaware or has kept news of California's longest operating killer under wraps.

[732] Thanks to the extraordinarily poor diplomacy extended by Villegroza and the Villagoroza administration and the LAPD brass to the victims mostly working class.

[733] Black families, the weekly also was able to first inform some families this month that the murders are known to be the work of one sick man. Holy shit.

[734] So the families didn't even know because no one even informed them.

[735] And so no one knew to look out and be careful and don't take rides from neighbors and, you know, be on the lookout.

[736] It was just not, they weren't even warned.

[737] Nope.

[738] There was no word on it.

[739] And in fact, it's Christine herself, not the police who coined the killer's nickname The Grim Sleeper because of his very abnormal 14 -year hiatus.

[740] Damn.

[741] Okay.

[742] So now we have, we will go to an email sent to us by a murderer now.

[743] Hi, Karen, Georgia, and your cult family of pets, Aunt Stephen.

[744] I'm a longtime listener, first -time writer.

[745] Karen, you mentioned the Grim Sleeper in the last episode, and I've been waiting for you to cover this murder.

[746] My aunt, not by blood, but by being my mom's best friend since I was a kid, and helping my mom raise my brother and I on her own, which was not easy as we were the brattiest kids in North America, is a badass female journalist who's been covering crime in Los Angeles since the Rampart Police Scandal of the 90s.

[747] Oh, my God.

[748] Growing up, she was always my idol because she was funny, pretty, bought me smoothies, and would talk to me about her stories.

[749] Now we bond over murder stories because murderingos abound.

[750] In 2008, she ferociously began to hunt down stories of nine murders of sex workers in South Central L .A. that had gone unsolved and cold since 1988.

[751] She discovered two new murders in 2002 and 2003 that had been DNA connected to the murders of the 80s.

[752] When this murderer resurfaced, LAPD wasn't paying attention or adding manpower to the case because it wasn't going to win them any political points.

[753] And my Aunt Christine Pellasek wrote a huge expose.

[754] calling them out for the lack of attention paid to what appeared to be one of the worst serial killers in Los Angeles history.

[755] Christine dubbed this murderer, the grim sleeper, because of the 14 years he had seemingly spent not actively killing in Los Angeles.

[756] She pointed out that these cases, had these cases been in Westwood or Brentwood, white wealthy areas, there's no way police would have ignored a serial killer striking again.

[757] She humanized the stories of the residents of the South Central community, who had their family members murdered, and she called the fuck out the mayor of the mayor she called the fuck out of the mayor she also pointed out the need to use dna testing on old cases like michel mcnamara with the golden state killer christine's articles brought attention to the case and put pressure on the city to do something this led to a break in the case with dna i'll get to that in a second she wrote a book about her experiences called the grim sleeper the lost women of south central which was published in 2017 and they even made made a cheesy, great lifetime movie about it.

[758] No. I had no idea.

[759] I'm so proud of her and her work to shine a light on a community of people whose safety wasn't valued.

[760] My dad passed away last September, and when he passed, Christine told me how he'd been her editor and had seen her talent at the LA Weekly in the 1980s.

[761] I like to think about his legacy and me, so I want to brag to the world about her amazing talents.

[762] Love Kelly Murderino Cole.

[763] Did that get you?

[764] Yeah.

[765] Sorry.

[766] So suddenly now, because of this article, there's real pressure to solve this case.

[767] But when the DNA samples are taken from the victims and run through the state offender and federal crime databases, there's no matches.

[768] So they turn to familial DNA testing.

[769] Yes.

[770] I remember this is 2008, 2009.

[771] Early.

[772] So it was still super early.

[773] Yeah.

[774] And familial testing is the kind where the sample has at least 16 markers matched to another sample in the database.

[775] So it's enough to implicate a close relative of a person in that database.

[776] So if there's someone with similar DNA who's already been convicted of a crime, there's a good chance that that person's relative could be a viable suspect.

[777] Now, this kind familial DNA testing is controversial.

[778] And at the time, the attorney general was Jerry Brown for California.

[779] and he was up for re -election.

[780] So he didn't want to attract any negative attention.

[781] So he didn't do the familial DNA testing until a little bit late till after he was elected.

[782] Okay.

[783] Or until after he was reelected.

[784] So eventually he does rule that familial testing can be used if other avenues have been exhausted and if the criminal presents a clear and present danger.

[785] So finally, in 2009, familial DNA testing is conducted on this cold case and they get a hit.

[786] A close familial match is found in a man named Christopher Franklin who had just been convicted of a felony of a felony weapons charge the year before.

[787] And this leads police to a new suspect, Christopher's father, 57 -year -old Lonnie Franklin, Jr., a former garbage man for the city of Los Angeles.

[788] Such a good cover because you can get rid of bodies so easily that way.

[789] And he was a garbage man in the 80s when it was still the system where it was the city dumps.

[790] And like there was no, the technology was not there in any way.

[791] And he had access to a play, basically the hugest dumping ground that where no one would ever find someone.

[792] How many bodies were just never found?

[793] Well, they start following Lonnie Franklin Jr. And they realize he frequently drives along streets that are known.

[794] where sex workers are known to walk.

[795] And so they need to be certain that it's him.

[796] So an undercover cop poses as a busboy at John's incredible pizza in Buenna Park.

[797] Fuck, yeah.

[798] It's the name.

[799] That's not my opinion.

[800] That's the name of the pizza place.

[801] And they know Lonnie Franklin Jr. is going there for a birthday party.

[802] The undercover cop takes Franklin's pizza crusts, utensils, like all the stuff that he used to eat that night.

[803] and they put it in their little evidence bag and the investigators extracts his DNA and when forensic runs their analysis they find a perfect match and on July 7th, 2010, police finally arrest Lonnie Franklin Jr. When they search his home, they find the 25 caliber handgun that was used in many of those killings in the 80s.

[804] It's just there in his house.

[805] Yes, he still has it.

[806] That's how cocky he is.

[807] is.

[808] He, like, didn't even try to get rid of it.

[809] Yeah, because he, no one had ever even, like, it wasn't, didn't come up.

[810] Even more chilling than that, though, they find over a thousand polaroids of women, both conscious and unconscious, often nude, including the photo of Anita Washington from the night of her attack.

[811] Basically, they end up, there's, they have, um, 180 photos that remain of missing unidentified women from that stash of photos that they're still trying to work through to identify who the women are because they're just missing and the bodies weren't found or they didn't you know they might be jane do's somewhere they just don't know so after a series of delays lonnie franklin junior's trial finally begins in february of 2016 he pleads not guilty 2016 jesus yeah in her opening statement deputy district attorney beth's Silverman explains that survivor Anita Washington will give testimony about her attack that will provide a blueprint to the fate of the 10 other victims who have no voice.

[812] Then Anitra takes the stand and tells the story of her attack and survival in full detail to the court.

[813] When she's asked to point out her attacker in the courtroom, she identifies Lonnie Franklin, Jr. And when Beth Silverman asks her, are you sure Anitra says 100%.

[814] Oh, my God.

[815] The prosecutor also reveals that in the 70s, Lonnie Franklin Jr. was stationed at an army base in Stuttgart, Germany, where he was dishonorably discharged for participating in the gang rape of a 17 -year -old German girl.

[816] Oh, my God.

[817] And then that girl, now a grown woman, takes the stand and testifies against Lonnie Franklin Jr.'s character.

[818] She flew in from Germany to testify.

[819] Holy shit.

[820] Yeah.

[821] Yeah.

[822] On May 5th, 2016, the jury finds Lonnie Franklin Jr. guilty on 10 counts of first -degree murder and one count of attempted murder.

[823] He's sentenced to death on August 10th, 2016, exactly 31 years after the body of Debra Jackson was found.

[824] He is on death row at San Quentin until March 28th of this year.

[825] No. when he is found unresponsive in his prison cell and Lonnie Franklin Jr., the Grim Sleeper, is found dead at 743 p .m. He was 67 years old.

[826] So while investigators were able to confirm that Lonnie Franklin Jr. did indeed murder Deborah Jackson, Henrianda Wright, Barbara Ware, Bernita Sparks, Mary Lowe, Lucretia Jefferson, Monique Alexander, Princess Bertholomew, Valerie McCorvey, and Janisha Peters, and attempted to murder Nature Washington, they unfortunately could never confirm beyond a reasonable doubt that he murdered Thomas Steele.

[827] But it is widely believed that he did.

[828] Because of the gross negligence of the LAPD and their blatant disregard for black lives in South Central Los Angeles, we will never know for sure how many people were murdered by Lani Franklin Jr. It's possible that he could have murdered as many as a hundred women, if not more.

[829] In December of 2010, the LAPD released 180 Polaroids to the public in hopes that someone might be able to identify the women in them.

[830] So far, there have been no additional confirmed identified victims.

[831] And that is the story of Los Angeles serial killer, the grim sleeper, Lonnie Franklin, Jr. Wow.

[832] Yeah.

[833] Great job.

[834] Great job.

[835] Thank you.

[836] so necessary.

[837] Thank you, Jay Elias, for helping me with that research.

[838] He did an insanely great job, and he found that murdering a letter.

[839] That's so great.

[840] Amazing.

[841] It's so great.

[842] But please, please watch Nick Broomfield's documentary.

[843] Those are the people you need to hear the story from.

[844] It's amazing.

[845] Pam, who is the woman he meets on the street, that basically becomes his sidekick in the movie.

[846] She is the best.

[847] She is the greatest person.

[848] And it's just such a, such a way.

[849] better way to tell the story of this.

[850] The people that lived in that community that knew him, his neighbors.

[851] And also when they finally did, like, you see a map.

[852] His house is in the center.

[853] It's like a clock where all those the confirmed victims of him, it's like a clock.

[854] It's just all around.

[855] Well, he had easy pickings.

[856] He didn't need to go into other parts of the fucking city.

[857] Like, he could just drive a block away and fucking get a victim and take 30 fucking years to be caught.

[858] And exploit this situation that was already so tragic, you know, and so unfair.

[859] That's one of the first ones Vince and I watched together.

[860] And Vince is not into true crime.

[861] Like, he gets really freaked out by it.

[862] But he talks about it to this day because it's just such a good documentary.

[863] And so good.

[864] So we just discussed the idea that maybe every other, every week, one of us tells a story.

[865] Since we're already at the two.

[866] hour mark on this episode.

[867] And like, but it would be nice, right?

[868] If like next week I tell the story and you can just sit back and listen and react and not, you know.

[869] And also just I think it just because there, you know, are whatever, we're going to do it.

[870] We're going to see how we feel about it.

[871] Yeah, we can try it.

[872] Let's try next week.

[873] So next week I'll go.

[874] And then, yeah, I like that.

[875] I do too.

[876] I think that's nice.

[877] Cool.

[878] Real quick, before we do the.

[879] and hooray is we want to take a minute it's really sad you guys have told us there's murder young very young murdery nose died this week and so we just want to take a second um to talk about them and so um summer taylor and dia's love from seattle were at a black lives matter protest on the freeway in seattle and got struck by a car sweet summer Taylor, and both of them are they, them, by the way.

[880] Summer Taylor passed, sadly, and Diaz Love is still fighting for their life, but I believe they're awake and getting through it.

[881] So sending them our love.

[882] Yeah, Stephen, can you do, will you mind finding there's got to be a GoFundMe?

[883] Yeah, yeah, I'll find those.

[884] For them.

[885] There is, yeah.

[886] Yeah, let's put that on the website so that people can support and help out because that's you know god that's that's such an awful thing to happen and then on top of everything else then you have you have to worry about medical bills right it's just so much for people to deal with and they're both big advocates um for human rights and i know diaz is fighting so send them um your thoughts and love and then just completely this freak accident, this sweet baby angel, Ali Davis, 21 years old, a musical theater major at the Kentucky School of the Arts.

[887] And she's from Banner, Kentucky, just a complete freak car accident and died.

[888] And it's just, it breaks my heart.

[889] It's so, I looked at her Instagram and she's just this bright, shiny person who looks like the minute you'd meet her.

[890] her, she would wrap her arms around you and be friends with you.

[891] And like, you know, all three of them just look like good, kind people.

[892] And I'm more, you know, when, when someone in our community dies, it's just, you know, we can't help but think of that there are friends, you know, like the shit that we share, the shit that you guys share with each other, the openness, the friendship that we all have.

[893] It's, it's our friends.

[894] And so, um, it's, it really means something.

[895] You meet people and you understand that you all have that same interest or whatever any interest but it's like yeah it is that you guys have built this into a real community it's a real connected community it's really beautiful and hearing about stuff like this really does it's heartbreaking and it's also a really good opportunity to try to feel gratitude you're still here and what do you think that person would want you to do right in the fact that you're still here and you're still living what can you do either to honor their memory if you didn't know them at all then to then to you know live maybe a little bit better or a little more consciously um yeah because like the the idea that people hit by a car because they were out protesting uh against the brutality and violence against black people is really meaningful and really um it's it's really quite something and you know definitely so summer taylor dia's love Allie Davis.

[896] They're all in our hearts.

[897] Yeah.

[898] And we're thinking about every, their friends and family and what a huge tragic loss.

[899] I have actually a really good one, um, to kick off our fucking hoorays.

[900] Yeah.

[901] Because it also is about some murderinos.

[902] Okay.

[903] Um, with some very good news.

[904] So this was sent, um, this was sent by Eric Clemenson.

[905] It's, uh, it was to me and to my favorite murder.

[906] It said on Twitter, this couple bonded.

[907] over MFM and as a protest got married in front of the Burnt Third Precinct in Minneapolis.

[908] Oh my God, I saw a picture of that.

[909] What is it?

[910] Yes.

[911] Okay, so Alexis Hamblin and Selena Burnt got married and after being together for four months.

[912] And so there's a long article on CityPages.

[913] You can look at up Citipages .com that's about this, but it's the cutest picture and it says here Hamblin and met on Tinder bonded over a shared love of my favorite murder and dated for about a year before they got engaged this Valentine's Day.

[914] It's so sweet.

[915] Look at how cute.

[916] Yeah, right there.

[917] Sweethearts with the flower crown.

[918] They hung a flower heart.

[919] It's the burnout police tape.

[920] How many years is four months in quarantine?

[921] Oh dear We've been going out for seven years Congratulations you guys We're honored to be a part of your of your city page's wedding announcement That's right Invite it please please invite us to the wedding party When it happens And we'll We'll slip out early Yeah Okay Mine is from someone named Livester L -I -I -V -S -T -E -R -R and it says I have a fucking hooray and then all caps my dad is the fucking judge on the GSK case oh no her dad is the golden state killer judge oh shit she better shut up this is all privileged information girl do not ruin it growing up my dad was a defense attorney in Sacramento and says sorry Karen it's okay and I watched too late And I watched as he showed me what justice really was.

[922] Everybody deserves to have someone on their side and he has so many stories now.

[923] He could probably fill a book.

[924] I definitely think this is where I get my dark and twisty passion for true crime.

[925] Definitely.

[926] But a few years ago, he became a judge and began trying more and more criminal cases until today he took on one of the most prolific serial killers still alive today.

[927] Not only is he an A -plus dad to three amazing daughters.

[928] I'm just adding this, McKenzie, Brooklyn, and Madison and Bailey.

[929] But he is a kick -ass judge, and watching him lead the courtroom through this motherfucker's plea hearing was inspiring to say the least.

[930] Love you, ladies, and keep doing your thing.

[931] P .S. I am a nurse in pediatric ICU, so I can confirm that, yes, you need to wear a fucking mask.

[932] And yes, you still need to distance.

[933] Okay, love you, bye.

[934] Holy shit.

[935] What's their name?

[936] Livester, L -I -I -B -S -T -E -R -R, that's on Instagram.

[937] Congratulations, Livester.

[938] Amen.

[939] I feel like...

[940] You're a celebrity.

[941] You brought that up earlier.

[942] We were like, we didn't even take the time.

[943] We bullshitted about Mac makeup.

[944] We didn't take the time to talk about the plea deal, the Golden State Killer.

[945] And I remember I was talking to somebody about this because I read, I was, reading about it.

[946] Oh, no, no, sorry.

[947] Stephen, it was you probably telling me during, do you need a ride or whatever, but Paul Holes sitting in the courtroom, watching them, watching this guy plead guilty finally.

[948] Amazing.

[949] In 2020, um, to these crimes that he committed in the 70s.

[950] Yeah.

[951] And terrorized this entire, all of California, um, up until very recently.

[952] the idea that that story is winding down and he is going to be in prison for a long time for raping and murdering people for 40 years is incredible it's unbelievable it's like surreal we have um we have to talk about i'll be gone in the dark the tv show we need to talk about parry mason we need to talk about unsolved mysteries which we don't talk about next week when it's my turn to tell my story, because that's the format we have, and probably all we should have had.

[953] Also, we just thought of.

[954] Dirty John is like, it's winding up, and it is, it's gotten so good.

[955] I am so into this season of Dirty John.

[956] Okay.

[957] I'm going to have time to watch it before then.

[958] We'll talk about books.

[959] I'm listening to podcasts.

[960] I'm listening to some new podcasts I'm loving.

[961] Guys, we didn't even get into.

[962] Oh, my God.

[963] Anything.

[964] We were busy talking about fucking tidepools.

[965] Mimi.

[966] All right.

[967] Thanks for listening to still after all this time and being here and being there for each other, support each other, reach out to each other.

[968] We love you guys.

[969] We're so fucking lucky and appreciative of you all.

[970] Yes.

[971] Thank you.

[972] And stay sexy.

[973] And don't get murdered.

[974] Goodbye.

[975] Mimi, you want cookie?