#631 - Josh Barnett

[0] The Joe Rogan experience.

[1] Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night.

[2] E -ha, ladies and gentlemen, international man of leisure and the first ever, the youngest ever, UFC heavyweight champion.

[3] Josh Barnett, ladies and gentlemen.

[4] I highly stress leisure.

[5] They can't take that from you.

[6] No, they can't.

[7] No, because I'm laying on top of it right now with a bag of Oreos and my feet propped up on a lovely lady.

[8] Unless some Mike Tyson -type character comes around and wins it at 20, you got that shit locked up don't really see that happening it's weird isn't it the heavyweight division is weird well ever since a lot of that drug testing came into play mm -hmm you're not going to see an 18 year old roll up into the UFC at over 200 and some odd pounds and to start laying into people isn't it possible though like one of those freak athletes that would normally make it into the NFL maybe he's got a dad that has been a martial arts instructor his whole life that kind of thing sure I could see it but then again And the pull is, if you could make it into the NFL, you're almost, okay, I'm going to take all that money now and play in the NFL.

[9] And then if I feel like being a fighter, I'll do that.

[10] Right.

[11] Like Herschel Walker did.

[12] Like Herschel Walker did.

[13] Although, I mean, he is a freak of freaks.

[14] I mean, when you look at Herschel, he shouldn't be in the kind of shape he is at his age.

[15] Yeah, and he says he eats like a bowl of soup and a salad every day.

[16] In a Snickers bar or something?

[17] Yeah.

[18] He's got some weird thing going on, too, though.

[19] He has multiple personality disorder that's trauma -induced.

[20] Maybe one of those personalities eats while the other one doesn't know about it.

[21] The other one's working out all the time.

[22] And so you're getting all your caloric needs from one guy, and the other guy's doing all the working out.

[23] The other dude jerks you off.

[24] Then you have the one dude that does your taxes.

[25] Right.

[26] It could be a useful thing.

[27] It would definitely be a useful thing for your mind.

[28] You compartmentalize like that.

[29] You could really pretend you don't jerk off.

[30] and really pretend that you don't eat, and you just have a bowl of salad and a soup and you're fucking Superman.

[31] I barely even lift weights.

[32] Meanwhile, you got fucking white powder all over your hand from chalk from Olympic lifting.

[33] You fucking calluses there.

[34] Where do you get in those calluses from, man?

[35] I don't know what you're talking about, man. That ain't even me. That's Mike.

[36] A bunch of engine blocks out in the front yard all overturned.

[37] Mike lives this part of my brain back here.

[38] Mike did it.

[39] Yeah, he was unbelievable.

[40] He was like 48 or 49 in his last fight in Strike Force, and he just looks like a fucking Greek God.

[41] Yeah, that's the kind of guy that I don't even think science could be that well.

[42] You know what I mean?

[43] Like, there are guys out there that, like I have a buddy, Mike O 'Hern, right?

[44] He's 40, I don't know, 46, something like that.

[45] And he's a family friend from way back in the day.

[46] He's from Juanita, Redmond, Washington originally.

[47] He's friends with my brother -in -law.

[48] Everybody, we all know him.

[49] I've known for a long time.

[50] ridiculous shape he can get up to i don't know 285 still fairly lean pull 700 pounds off the floor 800 pounds just ridiculous amount of strength then he can go ahead and shred down to 244 something because of 242 to do some photo shoot mr olympia a little um here i'm here for this uh supplement company or that supplement company or guest thing here and still in training do i don't know 600 for reps squatting.

[51] And you're just looking at it, I'm going, you know, his whole thing is being a natural bodybuilder his whole life.

[52] And he's, but it's, I wouldn't, you couldn't, there's nothing you could say that could ever diminish his, what he's done because no, it's just like, there's nobody else out there.

[53] I don't care what you shoved in him or what you didn't shove in him.

[54] You can't be that guy.

[55] Right.

[56] He's just that sick, strong.

[57] And he still looks like he's like 30.

[58] So you're just like, whoa.

[59] You won the genetic lottery.

[60] Unless you have some sort of crazy radical genetic engineering down the pipe, which probably is going to happen within a lifetime, maybe.

[61] But yeah, like there's some dudes, no matter how much steroids they take, they just, you're never going to compete with some ridiculous freak athlete.

[62] No, Mike is one of the most genetically gifted and hardworking, of course, too, people I have ever seen.

[63] He also has a world record for running through plate glass windows.

[64] It sounds like, yeah, no, shit he does, right?

[65] How many people were competing in that race?

[66] But, no, he is football, football gear and a helmet, and they line up these plate glass windows and this huge, long line, like a two -line or three -line deal.

[67] Like dominoes?

[68] No, no, no. Each one is, and it's individually set up, and he smashes through the first, a second, and he keeps going, you know?

[69] And sometimes you run into it, bounces you back, and you just got to keep driving.

[70] Oh, my God.

[71] He's also got a black belt.

[72] In judo.

[73] Jesus Christ.

[74] He was on American Gladiators.

[75] He was on Battle Dome.

[76] Battle Dome.

[77] Battle Dome.

[78] I kind of remember that.

[79] Yeah.

[80] Was Battle Dome again?

[81] Think lower rent American Gladiators.

[82] It was meaner and people got hurt more.

[83] Oh, that's right.

[84] Everybody had a very obnoxious or ostentations.

[85] Very gregarious character, very over the top.

[86] And so he was Mike O'Dell, like the perfect Greek god, although O'Dell, come on, that's not very Greek.

[87] But then, you know who else was on there was, God, I can't remember his name.

[88] He played in the NFL.

[89] He's incredibly funny.

[90] Terry Cruz.

[91] Terry Cruz is on Battle Dome.

[92] Was he really?

[93] Yeah, he was.

[94] I don't remember.

[95] And then there was another guy.

[96] You know, Eric Paulson used to train them.

[97] And Eric even did the psycho guy gimmick, the Hannibal Lecter deal.

[98] And they had an event on there where you'd have to get a guy off this platform over the lines.

[99] And Eric used to just murder everybody in that event.

[100] And then one of our guys who fights, who is one of our CSW dudes, he actually went on to Battle Dome at one point, Jay Martinez way back in the day.

[101] And he wrecked all the dudes that he saw on, who got onto the platform that get the push out one.

[102] He just fucked them all up.

[103] And they were so, they hated him so bad because there was like another event where it was football -esque, you know, Terry Cruz.

[104] and Mike would just practically take people's heads completely off their body.

[105] It was really bad.

[106] I'm surprised at when they redid that.

[107] They redid not this one, but the other one, Gladiators.

[108] Why didn't that take off?

[109] It seems like that would take off.

[110] They had Hulk Hogan, Leila Ali, Gina Carrano was one of the ass kickers.

[111] What channel was that, though?

[112] It was buried.

[113] It was during the Rider Strike.

[114] Was it during the Rider Strike?

[115] That's right.

[116] Yeah, but it's still a reality show.

[117] That seems like it would be an easy one to do.

[118] They, you know, that a wipeout is kind of similar, but no one kicks your ass.

[119] Right.

[120] You know, people love that kind of shit.

[121] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[122] I don't know.

[123] I don't know why I didn't actually continue as well.

[124] I figured, well, you know, it has a little bit of distance in it and two seasons and that shit was done.

[125] Yeah.

[126] Well, whenever you have, like, people that you have hired, like, you hire a Josh Barnett and you have to smash some dude who's competing, it gets kind of weird.

[127] It's like, it's not really, you're not competing against another person.

[128] You're competing against a hired guy Who's designed so the if the guy gets hurt If someone gets hurt and like you hurt him Like I it could be pretty easy to sue the company that makes that show Like you're an employee if you if you know some dude makes a run at you and you fucking close line him He's paralyzed yeah, but waivers man they fight those things And when you fight them if a if a lawsuit is strong enough it's got enough power behind it enough legal power behind it I wonder if that was it or if it's probably not it's probably just ratings i think it was just ratings yeah i think it was just ratings it's interesting when you think about what guys are capable of like physically with the maximizing your genetic potential like there's certain there's a certain level that you can't get past and it's one of the reasons like when everyone talks about like steroids and performance enhancing drugs and what's what's fair and what's not fair the one thing that's 100 % not fair is nature that's true it's not fair it's not Nature's a bitch.

[129] Nature will murder you, will drown you, will set you on fire, and we'll also just let you show up, you know, the proverbial gene pool that's been pissed in, you know, get born with stubby fingers or, you know, half a leg or, like, Down syndrome.

[130] Like, well, good luck.

[131] Yeah, good luck.

[132] See how that works.

[133] Yeah, and if you're an athlete, no matter what you do, like, there's certain guys, you know, the Hershal Walkers, there's certain types of dudes that just are always going to have that giant advantage.

[134] No matter what you do.

[135] Herschel was a fan.

[136] He was a really well -versed, you know, he had a good career in the NFL, but he never was the guy more than anyone else.

[137] I mean, he had some years, and you always knew he was solid, but he never was the top dude.

[138] Really?

[139] I didn't know that.

[140] No, he was never the number one guy.

[141] And often towards later on in his career, he was usually the backup guy or the dude who got brought in for all the all -purpose yardage, or, well, because Herschel could run and catch and possibly, I bet if you threw the ball to him, he could, you know, he could throw a pass down field, he could probably play defensive end.

[142] It's just, right.

[143] And then they would do those NFL off -season competition things, right, where they'd take all these different players on NBC or something, and they would all compete against each other in little events, throwing the football through hoops and through tires and sumo.

[144] and the beach and all this different stuff, right?

[145] Battle of the network stars, right?

[146] Basically, it was like that kind of thing, but just for NFL players.

[147] The NFL would do it.

[148] And Herschel Walker won every single one of them.

[149] Really?

[150] Every time.

[151] But he was not the best running back in the NFL during his entire career.

[152] He was not the best fullback.

[153] But he could play fullback, running back, quarterback.

[154] He didn't get fucked up either.

[155] It's like, Bo Jackson's out there crushing everybody.

[156] buddy just eating yards up boom his hip goes out right or uh steve itman taking uh interceptions and running him back 90 -some yards as a defensive tackle or d end and boom his knee gets blown out you know stuff like that not harsall walker he doesn't get hurt yeah it's weird right yeah he's he's a specimen but he never was like i said he was never the number one guy right did you see that thing recently about jeremy horn jeremy horn uh said zero injuries over a hundred in 17 fights or something that's insane i have no idea he must be made out of fucking flubber a rubber made or whatever you know he just bounces back out yeah they call him gumby that's always been his nickname right you know he just says it's just he focuses only on technique and he's never a strong guy well he he's got a point and it's something that i've stressed a lot uh when we talk about fighting and that is so many guys have learned how to be stronger and faster with or without drugs and learn how to defend certain positions and and hit hard but they don't have a full well -rounded skill set they've all got these plan a's and no plan B and their plan B sucks and their plan C isn't even a thing and then when they slow down a step they lose a little bit they come up across the guy who's either stronger and faster or just a little better striker or too too good of a rut too good at something that will just derail their plan A they start losing when they they start losing, they just nosedive.

[157] They lose four fights, five fights.

[158] These guys that would go out there and mop these dudes out, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, turns the corner.

[159] They can't sustain a career because they have no technique.

[160] They do not have the finesse, the touch, the feel.

[161] They don't own it.

[162] They never developed it.

[163] They just became really strong, really fast, hit hard, overwhelmed out athlete their opponent.

[164] Would you call a frontrunner?

[165] Yes, for the most part.

[166] And watch, you know, you, you, you, you, you watch these fights and how, oh man, this fight's going to be so good.

[167] And then it's, whoever gets out first, oh, that guy wins.

[168] Whoever's game, whoever's plan A starts first, wins a fight.

[169] It's interesting.

[170] When you look at MMA, too, it's so few guys are what you would call durable.

[171] You know, it's very difficult to like, like, you see like Steppe Miochic versus Junior Dos Santos.

[172] Sure.

[173] One of those crazy fucking five round wars.

[174] There's so few guys that can engage in those kind of wars and and and and make it out of there okay yeah that's true and honestly especially as a heavyweight uh with all that power and and strength you go through that what's your next fight going to be like yeah and your next one and your next one and how many of those you really want to get involved in yeah like when you see a guy like junior and you see those wars that he had with cane and you know you knowing you're i mean you've had a long career man you knowing like the toll that a fight like that takes on your body do you see him diminished at all do you see him slowed down he's a step he's a step slower junior is a step slower he's not quite as durable he doesn't react the same way to getting hit as he used to uh you know no and here's a thing someone might get on twitter after this and go oh josh barnett says that you're not as good as you used to be junior it's like no that's not an insult i'm it what it's saying is that you're the what do you have been through what you have done through to yourself in training and what your body is and isn't willing to accept or isn't willing to or is able to do just by the natural string of how things went in terms of your career to this point this is what it is take what what which you have now and adapt it it's in the end it's really only it's up to you to decide whether or not what you're going to do is going to be successful if you only if you're only if If you're so set in your mind that it can only be done one way, then when that way is no longer what is best for you to do as an athlete, prepare to have the shit kicked out of you.

[175] Now, if you're willing to adapt, reapply the things that you've already done well, add some new things in, just do them a little differently, make small changes.

[176] Well, then now you can go ahead and you can have 19 years of career instead of seven, six, whatever.

[177] You know what I mean?

[178] that doesn't meek that doesn't if you could run out there and double leg everybody in the beginning but now you can't do that anymore but instead you were able to set your double leg up just makes people react hit them on the way up or hit them and then get a body lock and finish that way how is that any fucking worse than what you were doing before just because you didn't do how you used to but you're still getting to where you want to be to me it's still success it's an interesting situation where you see there's some guys that still have like a single minded pursuit they have a The single -minded skill set, like they just want to wrestle and box.

[179] That's it.

[180] They never throw leg kicks.

[181] They never...

[182] And those guys are going to get their fucking shit pushed in once they come over that imaginary line.

[183] You don't know when that's going to be, but it's going to happen.

[184] And then they're going to fucking nosedive.

[185] They're going to be washed up has -bens.

[186] So it seems like in this day and age, especially, you kind of...

[187] Okay, like it's certain divisions.

[188] Like, there's certain divisions.

[189] Like, say, if you want to fight flyweight, you better be able to do everything.

[190] You know, Mighty Mouse is just so goddamn good.

[191] You're going to fight that guy.

[192] You better be able to do everything.

[193] And he's a rarity.

[194] Most guys are not going to be him.

[195] Right.

[196] And I've known DJ since he was just this kid up at the gym who was too small to really get any fights in a weight class that he really belongs in.

[197] And he trained diligently over.

[198] Even when he knew he wasn't going to get fights, he was in the gym day after day, training and training and training.

[199] Training hard, training easy, training fast, training slow, training.

[200] and doing what Matt had told him that he needed to do.

[201] And that's why he is the way he is now.

[202] When I trained under Matt, I did the same thing.

[203] I trained constantly.

[204] I trained when Matt wasn't around.

[205] When it was my own free time, I spent that going over what was working, what wasn't working.

[206] Why was this working?

[207] Why wasn't this working?

[208] How can I make these better?

[209] Shadowboxing, figuring things out, altering, and the things that Matt would say, well, I need you to do this.

[210] I don't really understand why or what.

[211] Can you explain it to me?

[212] Well, because I need you to do this so that you can do this.

[213] Create, elicit this reaction, whatever.

[214] I still don't get it, but I know what you want, where this is supposed to lead to.

[215] I'll figure it out.

[216] I will play with it and play with it and play with it and play with it.

[217] Not talking about my cock.

[218] But in addition to that, I will keep playing with it until it makes sense to me. and then I can come back and now I can ask a question that has purpose to it instead of just I don't get it of course you don't get it you're not going to get it lots of things you're just not going to get the first time until you live in it until you wrap it wrap it around you like a skin and understand it ah and then you might even make a decision to go what you want me to accomplish with this it isn't that effective for me to do it this way but if I just make a little change to it because of the way I'm built, because of my own natural tendencies, what have you.

[219] I can get that.

[220] I can get what you want and do what you want until the week and end of that end point.

[221] We can get there.

[222] But you can't understand that until you've taken the time to make that thing yours, to fully understand it.

[223] And there's some things, there's some techniques of math that he's shown me over the years that I can teach others.

[224] I can't pull off worth of shit.

[225] It's just not my move.

[226] I'm not really built for it.

[227] was built for it and he made it work better and the same was with paulson you know just sitting there and and taking all this information in and understanding and paulson's background is even more varied than that's so he'll come at me and go okay hey do this i'm like that's really from left field okay but there's a reason i'll figure it out i'll figure that out is that one of the more frustrating things about being an m -m -a fighter when you try to talk to people that don't know fighting is there's so much complexity and so much technique involved and the person on the outside it seems to be like a brute sport involving strength and weight and it does involve those things but it's what's that aliens but it's not we've had alarm issues in this fucking building I heard I saw them all trying to get in I had to fight my way through the to the front door glad you made it through dude but you know when A lot of people don't understand how many different techniques are involved and how many variables are involved in training.

[228] I can't be too angry at the ignorance of the casual fan.

[229] It's not their job to be that first.

[230] The fan that does go that extra mile and learn about the history, learn about why this technique would work and who these people are and where they come from and what this is and what that is, that's awesome and amazing.

[231] and I really appreciate that.

[232] I don't begrudge the person that doesn't.

[233] I don't like it when they say really ignorant, mean -spirited stuff.

[234] You know what I mean?

[235] But that's a different thing altogether.

[236] That's somebody trying to be a dick on purpose to try and cut somebody else down.

[237] That's a whole different animal.

[238] But just not understanding, it's okay.

[239] Personally, when I get into something, I do want to fully understand it.

[240] But that's just the kind of person that I am.

[241] I don't even mean people that are into it.

[242] I mean, the casual person that is not aware of MMA.

[243] It's a fascinating thing that so many people.

[244] Yeah, that person is, you know what, it could be anything.

[245] And fighting is while it is something that is available and exists within every human being, the ability to fight.

[246] Everybody has the ability to fight.

[247] You've never seen Brian fight, obviously.

[248] I didn't say fight well.

[249] He doesn't even have the ability.

[250] He just starts falling down.

[251] I'll just try to kiss you or something Yeah, just make it really awkward So you just want to leave His mouth open so you don't want to punch his tongue Just hold on To your belt loops and just Offer his shoes up to you You would look really good in these What's been the biggest change over your career I mean because you you've been around for You know I think the first time I saw you fight was 96 or 97 Something something along those lines What year was Superbraw when you're fighting in Superbrawl?

[252] 99.

[253] 99.

[254] That's what it was?

[255] Yeah, 99 was the tournament.

[256] 2000 was Dan Severn, and then 2001 was my first UFC fight.

[257] So what was your first MMA fight?

[258] Your first ever MMA fight?

[259] My first ever MMA fight was probably, it was 1997 of January.

[260] I was on winter vacation from the University of Montana, and I got a call from an old wrestling coach.

[261] if I, because he knew I was training, he knew I was into it, and at the time he was actually doing Matt Hume's website.

[262] And so he goes, hey, would you be interested in fighting?

[263] Sure.

[264] I go, all right, who?

[265] Chris Charnos.

[266] Oh, that guy's fought in Super Bowl, right?

[267] Like, yeah.

[268] Okay.

[269] When?

[270] It was like in 11 days.

[271] Okay.

[272] What do I need?

[273] When do I need to be there?

[274] and I just, I trained with an old training partner of mine, this guy, Edwin Romerosa.

[275] We used to do collie and some tieboxing and self -defense stuff, knife fighting, all kinds of shit, right?

[276] But we're all neophytes at the time.

[277] But we did the best we could.

[278] I would run up the hill from Ballard to Finney Ridge.

[279] I would meet him.

[280] We would either go to the park, and he would have me do stuff like throw on the bag, the big army duffel full of gear that we had.

[281] I'd throw that on and I'd hit tie pads on an incline because it was fucking hard as shit, right?

[282] So I had to kick up and I had to crawl, walk up this hill and kick these pads.

[283] And then he would have me do stuff like we didn't have mats and things like that.

[284] So I would just be on the carpet.

[285] I'd just sit there and take a position.

[286] He'd blindfold me and just fucking jump on me. He'd blindfold you would jump on you?

[287] And I'd have to figure my way out of whatever was going on.

[288] I had to feel it.

[289] I couldn't, I couldn't tab A, slot B. I had to figure out what was going on and get to where I needed to be and then finish.

[290] It's like some Pink Panther type shit.

[291] Kind of, dude.

[292] You know, would just jump out at him?

[293] Yeah, just come out of the closet with a fucking Kendo stick and take me out.

[294] I mean, it wasn't far from it.

[295] But in the end, it was about sharpening the mental aspect of it and just being like, all right, you're going to go out there and you're going to destroy this guy no matter what.

[296] And I choked him unconscious in two minutes.

[297] Well, it was about sort of like making up the training as you go along, trying to figure it out.

[298] We didn't even have real MMA gloves.

[299] We had to make them out of Harbinger bag gloves.

[300] We had to cut the bar out of the palm and cut something else off.

[301] And there you go.

[302] There's an MMA glove.

[303] And then we didn't have real trunks.

[304] We didn't have anything.

[305] I mean, there was no MMA gear that you could just.

[306] I went to a sporting goods store to get some of my other equipment.

[307] And they're like, what do you need this for?

[308] fighting, like, what are you talking about?

[309] And even most of the time, so my first fight was 97, then I would fight guys whenever I could on mats here, there, whatever.

[310] It wasn't like I was dojo storming.

[311] Back in college, I would just, hey, I see you doing martial arts.

[312] That's pretty cool.

[313] You trained a while?

[314] Yeah, what do you?

[315] Oh, I did American Kempo.

[316] That's great.

[317] What do you think of the UFC?

[318] You ever watch that?

[319] Oh, it's fucking badass, man. I love it.

[320] It's cool.

[321] Awesome.

[322] Want to fight?

[323] What?

[324] We'll just, we'll negotiate the rules and we'll just fight right here.

[325] Okay.

[326] And then it's, I just back off and, you know, no gloves, no nothing.

[327] Like, let's go.

[328] Boom.

[329] I remember picking up this dude from the East Coast and shooting in on a double, picking him up, skying him, boom, slamming the shit out of them.

[330] And we had this big cargo net hung down because there was all these full -corps.

[331] There were like three or four full court basketball courts that went perpendicular to this whole thing.

[332] So you're running up and down on the other side.

[333] Cargo nets to keep balls from flying over into this other and onto the matted area.

[334] And also there was a rock climbing wall and some other little stuff.

[335] So to keep the basketball stuff in the basketball area.

[336] And then there was like a little room that they had built for a women's workout room.

[337] So there was little cardio machines with little windows that they could look out across the mats and onto the basketball courts.

[338] people would stop playing basketball and hang on the cargo net thing and just cheer and talk shit and whatever.

[339] That's Mad Max shit.

[340] That's beyond Thunderdome.

[341] I mean, two men enter, one man need.

[342] It wasn't a lot of people, but I remember I skied this big old dude, slammed him, wham, and he turns over, and I throw my hooks in.

[343] I splat him face first on the mat, and I'm just 12 to 6 elbowing him in the back until he quits.

[344] You know, just stuff like that.

[345] And, you know, the best was always you'd see a guy talking to his.

[346] buddy's about how tough he is, hitting the heavy bag downstairs.

[347] And that would be the dude I'd always like, oh, hey, man, I see you got some experience.

[348] You ever fought before?

[349] And like, oh, yeah, sure.

[350] What I want to fight?

[351] Okay.

[352] Plow, just starting.

[353] So that's how you got your training in?

[354] Yeah, because I had that first fight, and Matt goes, that was really cool.

[355] We want you to come back and fight again in the summer.

[356] And at this point, I was just the dipshit who had showed up was like, who the fuck is this guy.

[357] And how old were you back to you?

[358] 19.

[359] In fact, this dude in line is talking to me, just making conversation because I'm this new face around.

[360] And Charteros trains at AMC, and he's already a pro, and he'd been known.

[361] So I'm just this kid from Montana in their highs, even though I'm from Ballard.

[362] And he's just asking me, oh, where do you train?

[363] I go, well, you know, I used to train church basement with this other dude and whatever.

[364] And I train at Jim Harrison's Bishito Bucido Cancarade.

[365] and uh uh and mazula and they're just like oh okay well uh cool because everybody thinks i'm going to get murdered like who fucking trains in church basements what fucking idiot is this guy where they find this moron he's going to get murdered like i can't believe even the guy sitting next to my mom filming it is cheering for chris kick his ass back to montana and my mom's like oh come on it's my son right now he's like oh i know i'm just i'm just you know i'm just you know i'm just you know just playing around, you know, Chris, Chris won't hurt him.

[366] What was, like, your motivation back then?

[367] Do you think that, did you think that this was going to be a career, or were you just enjoying yourself?

[368] No, I, I intended fully to, this was a point.

[369] I told the people that I trained with back at Jim Harrison's place, which is, by the way, that is a put up or shut up, no bullshit.

[370] If you come in trying to be a big shot, you will get your fucking teeth knocked out.

[371] and you don't that's not the place to try and be a tough guy and uh jim harrison is about as tough and as mean as they come uh he's he's a was a big help toward me developing who i am as a fighter it was a first us light heavyweight kickboxing champion he was a judo champion he fought the bare -knuckle karate back in the day like with chuck norris and all of them he was a superfoot wallace's trainer this dude is legit and uh so we'd get guys that come in the gym and they'd start doing all this stuff and acting pretty cocky, and we just take turns, like, hey, who's going to kick the shit out of this guy tonight?

[372] So I'm out there training, and I said to the junior instructor there, I said, well, hey, my goal is by the time I'm 24, I want to be in the UFC.

[373] And the dude just kind of chuckled, and he goes, by the time you're 24, you're going to win the UFC.

[374] There you go.

[375] You were correct.

[376] So you thought there was a career in this from the very beginning?

[377] Yeah, I watched the tapes in Japan.

[378] I saw the U .S. I just thought, with this, I don't know what kind of a living one would make.

[379] I imagine you could probably sustain yourself, but I knew that I would get a chance to see the world and beat up its people.

[380] So that was your actual approach.

[381] Like you, from the very beginning, beating up these guys in a basketball court, you were thinking, well, this is just training towards my ultimate goal.

[382] I need to fight.

[383] All these guys are showing up with 250 and O records and all this crazy.

[384] crazy shit and I'm like I don't have 250 I better get the I'm way behind I better start fighting people you know what am I gonna do when I fight the guy that's got at least you know 95 fights you should really write a book about all this shit because you were one of the I mean if you really think about it you were one of the real pioneers that there was you were around just a few years after the beginning of the UFC and you know you won the UFC title was that like five years after you first started fighting From 97 at 04.

[385] Was it 04 that you won?

[386] Yeah.

[387] Hmm.

[388] I think it was over.

[389] No, sorry.

[390] Earlier than that.

[391] Yeah, 2002.

[392] So five years.

[393] Because I wasn't working for the UFC when you won.

[394] Five or six years of training with three years of wrestling, two years of judo.

[395] That's pretty crazy, man. I mean, if you really stop and think about it, that is a really crazy path.

[396] You really should write a book, man. Because to go through that and to be around today.

[397] But I worry about all the people that would get thrown under the us not on purpose just man I've seen some shit I've heard some shit I've been around some shit I prefer to keep that yeah on the deal well that brings us to one of the things we were supposed to talk about in this show that we need to talk about um John Wayne par was on the show and John Wayne par who is a great guy I love him to death I really enjoyed talking to him but he had one particular story that pissed you off and it was a story about training with you it was before you fought Minotaro in the New Year show yeah and And, well, let's just play it, and we'll get you a reaction to it, because I know you really want to talk about this.

[398] He's got a cat wrestling as a few -hour drive.

[399] Do you want to hear a funny story?

[400] Sure.

[401] Should I tell his one?

[402] I was going to say it.

[403] So I meet Cub Swanson.

[404] And Cub Swanson's cool, dude, and we're hanging out.

[405] And then my first day, Eric Polson's gym, it's my Thai day.

[406] Okay?

[407] And I'm the new guy.

[408] I know nothing.

[409] No one knows who I am.

[410] and then so Eric Polson's like Okay, Moitau guys, put your gear on guys Okay, so Josh Burnett Use by this guy He points to me And so we start And I'm moving around Inside kick jab And then Josh throw something I'm like out and then I'm in Boom boom boom and I'm going again He throws a kick Ooh yeah And then And then he's a big dude He's a big dude So I'm in and out Fearing from my life Just tapping away and then uh we do two rounds after two rounds he takes his glove off and he throws it across the room he takes his shin pad off throws it across the room he packs his bag he storms out and then uh they're going to to Tokyo the next day to fight on the new year's eve um pride tournament i don't forget who it was against um and then about a week passes um josh loses his fight i get a phone call from eric polson about three or four days later once once they're get back and said oh hey this is eric hey you going um i just want to let you know that we blame you on uh josh's loss because he was fine right up until he spied you and then some kid that he never seen before owned him in the sparring and took away all his confidence so when he got to japan he was a mess and no way this is a true story i kid you not well first of all how ridiculous are they to take a guy like you where they don't you know i was i was just that new go out in the gym.

[411] It's like, oh, yeah, you spot him.

[412] You can cut it off there.

[413] So the fight that you fought in Japan for the New Year's show was the Minotaro Nogara fight, right?

[414] Which, that was a fight where you, it was a very close fight, and you actually had a leg lock locked down.

[415] No, no, that was the second time I fought him that year.

[416] And I had a nasty front choke on him, then he managed to just barely escape.

[417] I picked him up and slammed him on his head.

[418] I whacked on him a bit up top and down below but uh he pretty much stalled me out he tried to hold me down most of the fight and uh in the end they gave him the decision in my opinion what they wanted was a trilogy so i think it was a bullshit decision but if i don't finish a guy and that the judges make a shitty call oh well that's my fault still not the judges but that's neither here no there right this story really pissed you off so express yourself well first all the you could say oh if this guy came in and I even made sure to go back through my mental rolodex about this because I'll be honest, I had a pretty vivid memory about training with John Wayne Parr because I knew absolutely who he was when he showed up.

[419] I know he was not unknown to all these people at the gym and not to mention Eric Paulson, it will make sure to introduce, if somebody of notoriety came in, if you showed up right now, Joe, if people have been leaving in a cave, he would talk, he would say, This is Joe Rogan.

[420] He did taekwondo.

[421] He did this.

[422] And now you may know him.

[423] He will, he always make sure that everybody who shows up gets their due respect and is introduced properly to everybody.

[424] John Wayne Parr, I watched him fight at the Sands before he came and trained with us.

[425] I watched him fight Muay Thai.

[426] I'd seen him fight before.

[427] I knew who his wife was.

[428] Angie Rivera.

[429] I'd seen her fight before.

[430] I knew all about John Wayne Parr before he'd ever got into our gym.

[431] And he shows up and I'm going, oh, fuck, that's so fun.

[432] fucking cool.

[433] And I made a point to come up to John and tell him I watched you fight at the at the Sands.

[434] I was there.

[435] I've seen you fight.

[436] I know all about you.

[437] And I deliberately spent time training with John as much as I could.

[438] As much as I could.

[439] So here's the thing.

[440] John had a M .MA fight coming up against Tony Bonnello.

[441] So he's at our gym to try and figure out this whole MMA game.

[442] And I even put extra time into John trying to help him out, trying to teach him about defending the takedown and try to be more defensive as a grappler.

[443] And we all, everybody there was really kind and helpful to him, especially myself.

[444] And I tried to spar with him as many times as possible why I was at the gym because he is such a good fighter, but at the same time he's a lot of stuff.

[445] smaller than me. So I'm not trying to win.

[446] I'm just trying to learn.

[447] I'm not trying to take 250 pounds and kick him and hurt him and bust him up and make this a competition about who's better.

[448] If anything, I would just play, play, play, play, play.

[449] His striking is so unorthodox versus a boxing rhythm and even what you might consider sometimes a standard tie boxing rhythm.

[450] He punches on weird timing and weird timing signatures and weird rhythms and his elbows are super high, which normally people would just be like, that's shitty, but he makes it all work.

[451] And he's got a great kick and good reactions and good footwork.

[452] So we played a lot, but there was never any ass kicking on my part.

[453] There was, I never chucked my gloves across the room because this new guy just showed up and beat me up.

[454] It's like, that's all fucking bullshit.

[455] Why do you think he would say that?

[456] Maybe he's been punched in the head too many times.

[457] Maybe he sees that as his opportunity to get some sort of fame.

[458] I guess he's got a documentary out, which, you know, I don't know what he's lying about in that, but clearly this guy is delusional.

[459] And even still, there's like that unwritten rule about training, right?

[460] You don't talk about it.

[461] And, you know, that being said, when we did spar, there was at least one time where I put him on the floor by accident.

[462] Just timed a right middle kick against his right hand, and it just clunked him right in the right spot.

[463] Down to the floor he goes.

[464] and we laughed because we thought huh i go i didn't throw that hard he goes man that was just that was just a hellacious that was really well placed and we just what did we do we figured out how to repeat it because we thought huh if if one could land that kick just right be a great kick it'd be great thing to have in one's arsenal especially if you're not even trying to hurt someone they get hurt so bad they drop well and and you know i got a big big heavy leg you know so i don't fault him for that it's no it's not like we're trying to win how many times do you think you Spardom.

[465] Six, seven, eight times, whatever.

[466] I mean, he was there for a good bit, and then he disappeared, which I guess he took off to Thomas Denny's.

[467] I don't know why, but, you know, it's not like he was having to pay to be at CSW at the time.

[468] But, you know, when it came to MMA, he got murdered on the feet and on the ground.

[469] And not because he's a bad striker, it's because he didn't have the rhythm yet.

[470] you know the rhythm of stopping takedowns right the weather the you know being able to pay attention of the takedown distance the clinch distance which which doesn't end you know all kinds of little things that change the way you pattern your shots the way you would angle the way you would footwork so you know just in a straight tieboxing set scenario of course he's very relaxed but with mMA with everything that comes with it he's not so relaxed which is no fault of his yeah he talked about not pursuing MMA because he was such an expert in Maitai and he didn't like the fact that like when he would do Jiu -Jitsu or wrestling or anything, he just was so out of his element.

[471] He didn't like being a beginner again.

[472] What is that?

[473] What is that?

[474] Well, you know, but that's that's quitting.

[475] That's what that is.

[476] He wasn't fucking good at Muay to begin with either.

[477] I promise you.

[478] Right, but he was by the time he started and that's hard for people to start over.

[479] It's like taking a guy who's...

[480] Here's a thing.

[481] He, by the time he started, started M .MA, he was already good at one thing.

[482] He got so used to being good at one thing, he couldn't stand to be a white belt again.

[483] Well, then it definitely wasn't for you.

[484] Right.

[485] And I guess you don't like potentially learning new languages or reading new books, learning new, that's fine.

[486] You could stay in your little hole.

[487] And clearly MMA wasn't for him.

[488] Some people, though, they get a little bit of success.

[489] I mean, not a little bit.

[490] Obviously, he got a large amount of success.

[491] Which money do you think he made tieboxing?

[492] I mean, really.

[493] Very little.

[494] Exactly.

[495] Exactly.

[496] So he probably thought MMA was going to be a way to get more notoriety, more money, more whatever.

[497] And then when he realized that wasn't going to happen the way he thought it was, he quit.

[498] Well, you see guys that have really decorated Maita careers and they struggle to make it in MMA.

[499] Serial Diabate is a good example.

[500] And he's a guy who's pretty successful in MMA.

[501] He was pretty successful.

[502] But really good at Maita.

[503] Yes.

[504] You know, I mean, a world champion at Maitai, and that transition is it ain't easy.

[505] If it was easy, everybody would do it right that's true and uh but as far as kicking my ass the man's never kicked my ass in his entire life that's weird and you know what's even so weird is i was a john wayne par fan you know i i meet the guy at my gym and make a point to not only help him but to train with him to learn from him to have that experience to be there you're like oh you know when am i going to get a chance to train with john wayne par again i wanted to have the both of you on a podcast next.

[506] It's going to be so fucking weird.

[507] All it could happen is he's just going to go, well, no, it happened this way, and I'm just like, shut the fuck up, all right?

[508] You know what I mean?

[509] Knock me out right now, then.

[510] If that's what you want to go on with, but it's just dumb.

[511] And then recently, someone dug up the whole Hector Lombard stuff again.

[512] I'm like, oh, why?

[513] And I thought that was done because we have a mutual friend through the gym, and he says, oh, you know, Hector, he's sorry, he apologized for all the crap before.

[514] And I'm like, that's cool.

[515] You know, we never had a problem.

[516] with Hector at CSW, really.

[517] And even the night that Hector called me out at Bellator, the day before Wayans, I'm, Hector, how are you doing, man?

[518] I think you're going to do really great, you know, blah, blah, blah.

[519] Still backing him up.

[520] And then only to have him say, oh, I want to fight this guy.

[521] I'm like, what the fuck, man?

[522] He said that at the Way Inn?

[523] Wouldn't you say that?

[524] After he won his fight at Bellator.

[525] And this is when he was the middleweight champion of Belator?

[526] Yeah, who do you want to fight next?

[527] He's like, I want to fight Josh Barnett.

[528] And it's like, what?

[529] What?

[530] We want to fight me for?

[531] What the fuck, dude?

[532] Josh, you're ruffling people the wrong way?

[533] You're ruffling feathers?

[534] What are you doing, man?

[535] You know what?

[536] Maybe.

[537] I will accept that I ruffle feathers.

[538] You're a feathered the wrong way.

[539] You're a feather ruffling motherfucker from way back.

[540] I will ruffle feathers, especially in the case that I will call things like I see it.

[541] I don't let bullshit slide.

[542] And I have absolutely no, I do not suffer fools.

[543] So if you come at me with a bunch of just ignorant, stupid, whatever, if you've built your whole life, this whole construct around who you are and what you do based on a lie, based on, you know, something false, something bullshit.

[544] I'm just, I'm not going to accept that and I'm not going to respect you.

[545] If you don't have to be the best, you could be the worst.

[546] But if you're an honest person, you're a real person, then I don't give a shit.

[547] That's not, I'm not really impressed by people that can try to portray being something that they aren't or make themselves into something that they aren't.

[548] I'm more interested in the people who are exactly who they are.

[549] And that's fine.

[550] And understanding that they have weaknesses and strengths.

[551] and being able to grow and be a person of integrity and being a person that is true to who they are and true to me. So that will cause a lot of issues with folks, especially the fact that I deal in entertainment, whether it be fighting or they acting or anything that I do.

[552] There's a lot of false bravado, a lot of made -up, you know, machismo.

[553] Yeah, posturing.

[554] Right.

[555] So, Hector, the first time, so he says the reason that we had beef was because, you know, he broke my nose the first day of sparring and I hated him ever I wanted I hated him ever since then and that's not fucking true either the first day he ever showed up at CSW he had come up from Team Quest he wasn't going to train there anymore and uh I think he still hates Dan Henderson uh why does he hate Dan Henderson I don't know that some whatever I don't I never asked I just oh he he he sucks man he's a jerky no mine whatever you know I didn't get into it but the first thing he came and sparred was actually one of the best days we ever had was sparring because he got in the ring he wasn't trying to murder everybody and uh you know i fucking hit victor rolls on him and took his knee and he's just like holy shit that's crazy how did you do you know we're all having a good time but i'm tapping them out and taking them down whatever but there's no animosity we everybody's training and training and training and he's always amping it up now and then at some point i show up at practice late and everyone's on the floor hector doesn't have a partner so i just threw my shit on real quick no handwraps no nothing no one's going hard like i'm just just going to jump in and start warming up.

[556] All right.

[557] Touch, touch, tap, tap.

[558] Boom.

[559] He throws the biggest fucking punch he's got and tries to knock me out.

[560] Starts my nose bleeding.

[561] I'm just going, what the fuck?

[562] So then it's on for like 20 minutes, and I put a giant egg on the side of his head and shit.

[563] And Paulson just let him go.

[564] You basically had a fight.

[565] Yeah, we just brawled it out.

[566] And with, you know, boxing, kickboxing.

[567] And then Paul's finally called an end to it.

[568] That's fine.

[569] And then later on, at some point, he sparring Mighty Moe.

[570] And Mighty Moe drops him.

[571] And Paul's like, all right, all right, right, so, you know, lighten it up, lighten it up.

[572] Fuck, man, I ain't scared of him.

[573] I ain't scared.

[574] And Mighty Moe's like, man, fuck you.

[575] What?

[576] I don't need this.

[577] I'm here to help you out.

[578] I already got X amount of car, two houses, whatever.

[579] You know what?

[580] I don't need this shit.

[581] I've already made money.

[582] You're the one who's down here trying to crawl up the ranks.

[583] You know, why are you going to get out of this?

[584] And so then things started getting a little worse.

[585] He started beating up on civilians, which is what I call, like, people that are not pros.

[586] And we would still spar and things like that here and there, but I always knew that with Hector, he was always going to go hard.

[587] He never had a light, not because he couldn't, but he wouldn't.

[588] And you guys, after you had gone hard for 20 minutes, you basically fought it out for 20 minutes.

[589] I was done with it.

[590] I wasn't mad at him.

[591] So you were perfectly fine with sparring him after that.

[592] He was, he made it clear who he was going to be in the gym.

[593] Oh, that's fine.

[594] I mean, one time, we had a grappling tournament.

[595] I drove him out with me so we could all hang out.

[596] Everyone could be together.

[597] He came out to this fight out in Palm Desert where we had some guys fighting.

[598] I mean, he was a part of everything with part of the team, but we knew that he was unstable, but we knew it to expect.

[599] So, and Babelieu beat up on him one time in the gym, because he didn't like him at all because he would beat up on, because Hector would take liberties of people, right?

[600] that Bob Blue felt like, well, you shouldn't do that.

[601] And but then the last time we sparred, I get on top of them and, you know, I'm working them over pretty good, but I'm not trying to kill the guy.

[602] And he freaks out and he's like, I'm good, I'm good.

[603] You know, I'm tired, man. He's like, what do you mean?

[604] You're tired.

[605] Every day you go hard and try to kill people.

[606] And the one day you don't want to go hard.

[607] You don't say anything, but everybody just expects that's what's going to be.

[608] Right.

[609] And so he says, oh, and this one day.

[610] I got on top of him, beat him near within an inch of his life.

[611] And I'm like, I didn't do that.

[612] I know I didn't do that.

[613] Yeah, I pinned him and, you know, I was leathering him, but not hurting the guy.

[614] And, you know, he thought he was going to die or something.

[615] Like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to do that to you.

[616] It's just training.

[617] And now it's like this thing again.

[618] It's like, you know, you didn't beat my ass in the gym.

[619] You're an incredible fighter.

[620] In fact, you're a better fighter than you even understand.

[621] Hector Lombard, if his head was right, would be untouchable.

[622] He is one of the most gifted, strong, fast at, throw aside the fact that he just got popped for steroids.

[623] Even with it, you could find his, fucking, his peers and give them all the same shit or different shit.

[624] It doesn't matter.

[625] They're not going to move, have the strength, and the speed like Hector is.

[626] Hector's unreal.

[627] Hector should be undefeated.

[628] But Hector's a headcase.

[629] And that's why he'll never fully ascend to the top of the throne or really keep it if he can get there.

[630] Because he doesn't understand what it is that he has and how to use it best.

[631] But he is amazing.

[632] Don't get me wrong.

[633] That dude, gnarly.

[634] Yeah, he's a super athlete.

[635] There's no doubt about that.

[636] I've never seen anybody ragged all Jake Shields like that.

[637] He threw Jake Shields around.

[638] He could do that to anybody in his weight division.

[639] He could, he, now, could somebody have a counter for some, something, yeah, I'm not saying he's invincible, but I'm saying that what he possesses in athleticism and skill sets.

[640] He's actually a good leg locker, too.

[641] You won't see him necessarily go for it, but he is a good leg locker.

[642] Yeah, there's a video of him in a grappling tournament.

[643] Oh, he breaks that guy's leg, yeah.

[644] It's loud, too, carrot.

[645] He's got, he's got even more skills than he displays.

[646] But, again, you know, you've got to be able to put it together.

[647] But isn't that part of the beauty of MMA is that it is this weird thing that you just can't just be a super athlete because there's other super athletes too.

[648] You can't just be a technical guy because there's other guys that are technical too.

[649] There's so many variables.

[650] That's true.

[651] And you could be the best athlete out there.

[652] I know I fought people that were bigger and stronger than me and faster.

[653] And I've beaten them before.

[654] And it wasn't because I went and I fought their speed with my speed or, or, you know, you.

[655] use my strength against their strength.

[656] It was I found a way to bypass those things or to put them in such a way that they wouldn't even apply strength or speed where they should.

[657] They don't even understand that it's still available to them.

[658] It's just that they don't understand the position.

[659] They don't understand what's going on.

[660] They don't even realize what opportunities are there for them.

[661] Well, isn't it almost impossible, unless you spend decades in martial arts?

[662] It's almost impossible to have all the skills and all the numbers.

[663] knowledge at your disposal of course it's such a deep pool of information to draw from it is but you know if you want to have the the biggest toolbox out there then you have to spend the time to do it when the coaches are done coaching you and you've left practice how do you spend your time are you watching video not just on your opponent but just watching video on things for fun or to be or to to take a look at something and break it down and make it it yours in a very highly technical aspect or are you shadowboxing to make sure that work on keeping that jab inside or are you thinking about the things that you've been working on are you thinking about if you mentally drilling like gable says are you sitting there going through shot after shot after shot set up after set up after set up in your head are you having a garbage truck come through in the signal right now is they have Wi -Fi garbage trucks right now is that was that is that what's As that was popping in the hood?

[664] Most people can't even hear that.

[665] They're up there like, I got a fucking hot spot, motherfucker.

[666] Bring me your trash and your recyclables.

[667] And check your email.

[668] If you were going to start someone.

[669] That's where spam goes.

[670] I know you train with a bunch of young fighters now.

[671] You train a bunch of young fighters right now.

[672] Jessamine Duke, Marina Shafir, Victor Henry, Shohay Amamoto, Colleen Schneider, Shana.

[673] And if you wanted to start, say if you were going to start from scratch, If you were going to develop a program and take athletes that had never fought before, never had any martial arts experience whatsoever, and turn them into professional mixed martial arts fighters.

[674] If you had a curriculum, as it were.

[675] How would you start that off?

[676] First, first things first, what do you possess up top?

[677] Your brain.

[678] Exactly.

[679] If you don't have the type of mind that can be that dedicated, that obsessive, that can be easygoing.

[680] and you need to be easygoing and be completely unmovable when you need to be.

[681] Yeah, that unshaking and unfettered confidence.

[682] And how would you develop that in a person?

[683] Is that something you either have or you don't have, or is this something that you could develop?

[684] You can develop it, but it's, I truly believe that for the most part it's something that you are born with, the ability to do.

[685] You give them adversity right off the bat.

[686] You give them struggles.

[687] You give them things that will confuse them on purpose, and you see how do they deal with that?

[688] Do they quit?

[689] Do they fold it in?

[690] Do they throw a fit about it?

[691] Do they throw a temper tantrum?

[692] How do you going to?

[693] Because what you have to do to get to the end goal is really irrelevant.

[694] Getting to the end goal is what's important.

[695] So if you had to fucking do coffee runs for two weeks in a row, if that was all, I mean, come on, what is that in the length of what your career would be, a length of what your training would be?

[696] Coffee runs, what do you mean?

[697] You know, like someone said, hey, Josh wants you go get them coffee.

[698] Yes.

[699] How the fuck is that going to help anybody?

[700] I don't know what you.

[701] I just made it up because I've been drinking coffee.

[702] But if that was it, just to see them, you're like, well, I want to go train.

[703] I want to see what they do.

[704] Well, don't you think, though, in that case, you're dealing with people like, okay, some people will come to the table with a certain amount of mental toughness, a certain amount of discipline, a certain amount of the ability to overcome adversity.

[705] And some people won't.

[706] And you're only going to take the ones that will.

[707] Is it possible to take someone who's almost essentially a blank slate athletically and turn them into someone who could understand what's going on in their mind?

[708] Do you believe in mental training?

[709] It is possible.

[710] But, again, they would have to exhibit those characteristics, not through an athletic window per se, but just through a determination standpoint.

[711] just through, you know, it's like the reason why pro wrestling gyms back in the day, or even currently, in Japan especially, and the Lions Den, and they had tryouts, I had to go through a tryout.

[712] I beat two pro fighters, my first two fights, and I still had to go through a tryout, I still had sparring, I still had to have a meeting with the coaches before I could join AMC's fight team.

[713] Because just winning, just even being a good fighter wasn't enough.

[714] They needed to see what is this guy made of?

[715] Is he coachable?

[716] Is he have the mental capacity to be in this environment and excel?

[717] Can he be one of those people that what we instill in him will stick?

[718] Well, that was what I was kind of getting to.

[719] Is there a way you could develop a mental curriculum?

[720] Because it seems like that is one of the biggest parts.

[721] of competing, one of the biggest parts of succeeding, and of not tripping over your own dick, which a lot of people do in all sorts of things in life.

[722] You see it with stand -up comedians, you see it with musicians, you see it with authors.

[723] There's people that just don't fucking do the work, or they fuck up, or they don't follow through, or they take too much time off, or what, you know, the mental aspect of success, the idea of finding a goal, figuring out how to get to that goal, and then avoiding anything the trips you up along the way.

[724] I don't know about building a curriculum that's one -size -fits -all because everybody's a little different.

[725] But of the difficulties that you named, failing or, you know, not doing the work.

[726] Some of these...

[727] Pussy.

[728] Pousy.

[729] That's a big one.

[730] But sometimes it is.

[731] Sometimes it's very tight and small.

[732] Sometimes you just never know where you're getting.

[733] I meant.

[734] I meant like what Mickey says.

[735] and rocky yeah well here's a thing uh some of those things are okay failing's okay failing is okay as long as you learn from it it's one of the best motivators ever what's not okay is distractions not doing the work not there's a difference between not being successful because it just isn't learned yet isn't isn't isn't you haven't developed the capability yet maybe you're just not quite strong enough quite fat things like that things that you in time can be learned and understood and grown from and then there's shitting the bed by not putting the work in by having the wrong attitude by showing up trying to win all the time letting your ego get in the way uh things like that and that's what you want as a coach as okay not even just as a coach let's take the the coaching aspect out of it because this applies the life as someone that's going to have somebody else apprentice under them As somebody that has the ability to instill knowledge and understanding towards something that somebody else wants to work towards, that person who needs to learn this stuff has to have the right head.

[736] My old coach, Billy Robinson, said, you need to learn how to learn.

[737] And that's a fucking fact.

[738] And so one of the mentors' jobs is to try and help guide this person to teach them how to learn.

[739] because once they learn, it's the stupid old analogy of give a man of fish, he'll eat today, teach a man to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime.

[740] It is fucking that simple when broken down to its smallest pieces.

[741] You have to learn how to fish.

[742] And you learn how to fish.

[743] It doesn't matter if I tell you, okay, well, I want you to use your jab to score on this guy's chin.

[744] You will figure out the way that you need to use your jab to score on that guy's chin.

[745] You will make the jab that you possessed, the most effective jab you have ever known because you understand you know how to fish you're not sitting there getting pissed off because you don't like the fact that you didn't hit him every time or you didn't you're you're focusing on the wrong thing you're too busy trying to win instead of trying to learn once you learn you'll win if you try to win all the time you're going to fail eventually that's a big that's a big problem in jiu -jitsu Marcelo Garcia talks about that a lot he says that you have to open yourself up in training and you can't worry about being tapped nope being tapped as a part of the game get tapped and just move on don't worry about it that's right it's what's most important is you open up your game and then in open instead of being like super defensive and never taking any chances you don't you don't learn because you don't get tapped but you don't learn jack shit and there's always those guys like every gym has that guy that's almost impossible to tap but doesn't fucking tap anybody right that's true and and and what that's another thing that as a mentor, as a coach, or whatever you want to call it, that you have to look for is not the person, there's always the person that's just fresh off the boat.

[746] You know, they just fell off the turnip truck, whatever.

[747] Just getting into it.

[748] Turnup trucks.

[749] That's that old one.

[750] That's old schooly.

[751] Well, no, I mean, there's turnip trucks that go through Los Felas all the time.

[752] Really?

[753] Oh, they're all about turnips over there.

[754] Turnip trucks and beat trucks.

[755] Is there one turnup truck for the whole entire state of California?

[756] Well, it's organic.

[757] It is organic.

[758] two turner trucks it's gluten free gluten free turnips yeah I'm not worried about gluten anymore no me neither back on the sugar you know yeah sugar is it's sugar but that's what the gluten issue is it's not a like um the real issue I believe with gluten is that gluten is all sugar like when you're not not gluten but gluten containing products if you have a lot of bread you have a lot of pasta a lot of sugar in the real issue is sugar glycemic carbs that's the real issue it seems to be and I've talked to nutritious about it and like Well, some people are more sensitive and some people are.

[759] The people that are the most sensitive, it's usually because their patchuli is interacting with.

[760] Their karma.

[761] It's a, you know, crystals and gluten have an, they are the ones where the intolerance is within that combination, not the person themselves.

[762] I get it.

[763] Yeah, the body is okay with gluten, but if you have crystals on at the same time, depending on what harmonies they're vibrating at, that gluten could be an issue.

[764] Harmony, very important.

[765] I knew a girl named Harmony.

[766] Boy, was she annoying.

[767] Oh, my goodness.

[768] What color was her aura?

[769] It was kind of a purple -ish.

[770] But that whole thing, that gluten thing, is like, there's some to it.

[771] Like, you're not really supposed to be eaten bread all the time.

[772] You're not really supposed to be eating pasta all the time.

[773] And your body, obviously, some people have a harder time processing all kinds of different foods.

[774] Everybody's diet's going to be different to the person.

[775] But the one thing that will help everybody, everybody listening to this, if you hear all this gluten frat, cut the fucking sugar out.

[776] Just cut it way.

[777] Way back.

[778] Eat fruit.

[779] If you want some sugar, have a peach.

[780] Have a pair.

[781] It'll make a giant difference.

[782] We're totally getting off top.

[783] We're digressing.

[784] But we're not because we talk about learning.

[785] Learning, true.

[786] And one of the things even about the whole concept of this gluten stuff, right?

[787] And bread and pasta.

[788] How refined is the shit you're eating, too?

[789] Like, if you had bread that was almost as least refined as possible, I mean, it's going to be refined to some degree because you made it into fucking bread.

[790] But the least refined as possible.

[791] Like sprouted grains.

[792] It's way different from cheese.

[793] Baseball, white bread.

[794] Wonderbread type shit.

[795] It's all sugar.

[796] I'm cheeseball white bread, and I've been known to be unhealthy to people.

[797] You're a little cheesy, but it's, it's amusing.

[798] Yeah.

[799] But I love sprouted bread.

[800] I like, like, Ezekiel bread and stuff like that.

[801] My body doesn't seem to react to that bad at all.

[802] Well, it does tend to burn a little bit on initial touch from me, but that's because I'm just so unholy and satanic.

[803] That's the problem.

[804] Oh, the Ezekiel bread.

[805] Yeah, no, it's just like, it starts glowing hot.

[806] I didn't know you were unholy.

[807] holy and satanic yeah all the above wow how long have you been unholy uh i think since the day i was born i think when i stabbed the doctor are you a voodied child i've been down since i began to crawl on the night i was born i heard the moon turn of fire red but uh so you get these these new guys with their sprout of grain bread and they you get them to a certain point right and then here's the real trouble they experience some success they get to some point of understanding and of they feel like they know what their game is and they know where they can win getting that motherfucker out of that hole out of that shell that's hard and that's unfortunately where a lot of times you just got turned to a guy and be like all right i'm done with you that's it you have set your own limitation at this point you have you have created your own roadblocks and you don't even understand it sort of like what you were talking about with john wayne par Like John Wayne Pard not wanting to learn how grappled because he was so good at Muay.

[808] He'd already crossed the Gulf and become an expert and didn't want to become a beginner again.

[809] Exactly.

[810] John Wayne Pard decided he was going to be a failure in terms of grappling in MMA.

[811] He decided that.

[812] It wasn't a matter of whether he could be successful or he could be mildly successful, greatly successful.

[813] Who knows?

[814] But he decided that he was going to not be good.

[815] I had this conversation.

[816] I had this conversation with a guy once about this guy who's, an MMA fighter.

[817] I don't know if to name his name, but he's a really good kickboxer who got into MMA and kept getting tapped out.

[818] And this guy said, well, he just doesn't have any talent for Jiu -Jitsu.

[819] And I said, that's crazy.

[820] I go, it's not that he doesn't have any talent for Jiu -Jitsu.

[821] I go, I'll tell you exactly what happens because I know those guys.

[822] They are so good at kickboxing, they don't want to do Jiu -Jitsu, because if they do Jiu -Jitsu or submission wrestling or whatever the fuck it is, they're going to get tapped out, and they don't like getting tapped out.

[823] So they spend as little time doing that as possible and as much time hitting the pads, hitting the bag, working on their strengths, not working on the weaknesses.

[824] No one likes to feel like they're failing or, you know, it's a hard thing for people to do it to go back to sucking again in some way.

[825] And I just started training Kiyokshin Karate in L .A. One of my students, Shohi Yamamoto, is a junior world champion.

[826] He's a junior world champion, Kiyokshin.

[827] He's taken third and fourth in the weight category, uh, champion, world championships.

[828] He is also the youngest guy to ever compete in the world open weight.

[829] He was like 185 pounds or so at the time, 19 years old or so, and he made it to top 32, whatever.

[830] He fought like Glaube or someone in law, something like that.

[831] Wow.

[832] Fucking kid.

[833] I know Karate has a lot to offer.

[834] I know all martial arts have something to offer, and I've always thought that Kyokshan was a badass art and it would be fun to do.

[835] And so what I do, I show up, guess what?

[836] I got a white belt.

[837] I had to go by a karate ghee.

[838] I had to sit there and sit in the back of the line with everybody else and be nobody.

[839] And that's okay.

[840] Because people go, I don't understand.

[841] How come you're here with a white belt training karate doing forms?

[842] And because I like being a white belt.

[843] I like learning.

[844] And in a way, it's kind of like my yoga because I can throw a sidekick.

[845] But if you make me do sidekick from that with the heels together, It's just it's a different way of doing it.

[846] I don't know these forms.

[847] I don't know some of these positions to do these sort of things.

[848] So it makes my body stretch and adapt.

[849] And all I'm doing is getting better, learning more.

[850] It doesn't mean that I have to go out there and Sanchin with my knees in and whatever and give somebody a karate chop to the neck.

[851] But so what?

[852] You're just learning new movements.

[853] Yes.

[854] It's always good to learn new movements.

[855] You were here once and you were saying that after you left here, you were going to go train Savat.

[856] Yep.

[857] Yeah, I've trained Savat for about a couple years, too.

[858] Well, I've never done any Savat training.

[859] You would love it.

[860] Do what I love it?

[861] Okay, here's the simplest way I can describe Savat.

[862] Think of Savat as like the Western boxing equivalent of kickboxing.

[863] You're more Floyd Mayweather than you are, you know, Mike Zambutist, hitting and getting hit.

[864] The idea of Savat is to touch and not get touched.

[865] Lots of footwork, using your lead, leg, lead, hand, tons of footwork.

[866] So does not a lot of emphasis on power?

[867] No, I mean, you develop power and you have your kill -shot opportunities, but really it's about being, scoring, off -balancing, angling.

[868] There's a great fight.

[869] Raymond Decker's versus Pinocchio, this Italian Savat guy.

[870] That's a good fight?

[871] Yeah, we'll put that shit up.

[872] Jamie?

[873] Jesus Christ.

[874] Panacchio beats Decker's.

[875] Get the fuck out of here.

[876] You're watching it.

[877] Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

[878] This dude beat Ramon Decker's?

[879] A savant guy beat Ramon Decker's?

[880] Yep.

[881] Oh, five rounds.

[882] Decker like five?

[883] No, he was.

[884] A little kid?

[885] No, he was at least seven and a half.

[886] I think John Wayne Parr had just beat him up really bad in practice and his confidence was shot.

[887] So Panacchio beats Decker's, but how he does it is by scoring more, by being elusive, and you watch the two fighters, and you can see it.

[888] Oh, here we go.

[889] Pinocchio is a real boy.

[890] So...

[891] It's Panacchio, bro.

[892] It's not Pinocchio.

[893] You don't even know.

[894] You watch Decker's, and Decker's is full of power.

[895] tons of power and when he kicks you can see this just bone -shattering type stuff what year was this early 90s or late this is why Ramon was still in the prime oh yeah he Ramon was still knocking out ties over in Thailand but the thing is Panacchio is almost never there to get hit the other thing is when he's taking these shots he slides and moves with him he always takes the power out of it and there's quite a few times he kicks Decker's legs out from underneath him while he's trying to wind up on him really and tags him with a lot of shots up top with the hands This is very interesting And it's not that Decker's a worse fighter than Pinocchio Don't turn it into that kind of thing Listeners It's about style right here This is what it came down to It was a guy using a different tactic Against, you know He's not going to match power with this dude Who could?

[896] Raymond Decker's was just a destroyer Too much power Kicked in the dick right there Now they're wearing those shoes Why are they wearing the some sort of fucking whatever European leagues thing about you know what I mean this is back in the day when kickboxing was different everywhere you went and this is kickboxing there's no clinch there's no elbows no knees what do you think about that like the glory rules as opposed to full moitai uh moitai is a tendency to get boring as shit when they get in the clinch and they're just throwing side knee after side knee and no one's really landing anything of and they're hanging on each other and I understand why they want you know people to be at that mid -range or long -range just tagging each other because it looks more exciting to the casual fans I kind of get it that from that perspective but I don't like it as far as a stuff he just axe kicked him no yeah it's a lead leg hook kick and then evaded his return low kick at the same time it was barely it was more like an axe kick it looked like a slap a foot slap inside low high again and he's just moving a lot constantly and look it's just spinning off of his kick and sliding away as he's kicking yeah panacchio also beat or Joanne Voss fought in some matches too and lost wow so I mean it's just apply it so I love hook kick to the face I love the the distancing the speed you know one of the things I like to to use if it all possible and teach to people is that you know what how much do you think your leg weighs oh like 30 40 pounds if you just got it up there as fast and as quick and as to the point as possible if you score as clean as possible and as quick i don't need to throw hard i mean forces is is mass times velocity squared so let's work on the velocity squared and not trying to generate more more uh strength into that movement but just speed right so more keokishin style than Muay Thai style.

[897] Well, Kjokshan has a tendency to try to really kick the baseball bats apart too at times.

[898] But with Savat, I mean, if you can even watch some of the old American kickboxing stuff back in the day.

[899] And those guys were so adept at going from foot to hand to hand to foot and foot to hand.

[900] Obviously, it was tailored to the game.

[901] But if you thought, you know, just watch Guy Mezger, what's his, Arona.

[902] They're out there in this bit, just a nice little kick, lead leg, high kick.

[903] And this whack.

[904] And all of a sudden, Arona is on roller skis.

[905] skates, and it didn't even look like much.

[906] Yeah, you're seeing that sometimes today.

[907] You're seeing more of a karate style, like Machita is a perfect example.

[908] Sure.

[909] There's no wind -up.

[910] There's no step before he throws the background kick.

[911] He just throws it right from there.

[912] Pettis does that as well.

[913] Yeah.

[914] You're seeing a lot of guys that are doing that.

[915] Front kicks taking people out as if that was never a legit technique.

[916] You know what I mean?

[917] And there's a bazillion ways to throw front kicks.

[918] You can throw a Thai -style push kick.

[919] You can throw the Taekwondo one where you, like Victor Webster has one of the nastiest push kicks ever.

[920] and he'll fucking, he'll, he's out here, and he steps in, he rides into it, and then he hits you right in the hip and makes you sit on the floor.

[921] It's like, fuck, dude, that sucks.

[922] And he just stomps right through your hip.

[923] And then you've got karate style.

[924] We pick it up and fold it, and then punt, as Jim Harrison would say, with the ball of the foot.

[925] And you get him right in the chin, the solar plexes, diaphragm area.

[926] You could turn it over like Savat likes to do, or even Kyokshin has it too.

[927] that's uh kikuno's kick the mikazuki gerry and punt it right into the liver and it's you know ball of the foot how much surface area is that it's just the end of the hammer the head of the hammer hitting right into the point yeah there's a lot of old school taekwondo guys that would throw round kicks but they would throw it and land the ball of the foot like a front kick sure that was a big thing that used to do back in the day we're at the eric paulson always holds this camp uh every year it's a big full on there'll be multiple instructors teaching all this stuff and all these people come from all over his affiliate gyms and they pile into our gym during our training time so he just integrates everyone together and i always just tell paul's i go don't stick the newbie fucking goofballs in there with me if i've got a fight coming up and these dudes are in here they're going to get wrecked like that's this is not my job to help this dude have a good time at camp i'm getting ready please just don't do it right no you can just you can just take it easy i'm like no they're not going to go easy on me for one because I'm me and they want to either they're excited scared or want to prove something so I don't want it I don't even want to deal with it but if I have to I'm burying them so that's just the way it is so anyways we're in there we're kickboxing me with this kid and fucking he turns it up my god damn it so what do I do I step up throw a left high kick off the lead leg but I turn it over and I hit with the ball of the foot I just stabbed him right in the jaw with it he stuns puts his hand up quits for the whole day he's done he's just that I don't I'm done forget it that's probably a good idea probably was a good idea probably got a concussion whenever you're stunned whenever you're like that's my problem with tournaments like especially those kickboxing tournaments they're doing they're getting essentially knocked out in their first fight they recover you know they get dropped or stunned or fucked up and then they have like you know 20 30 minutes for everything to cool down and really hurt and then they get back in there and do it again.

[928] Yeah, I hear you.

[929] And I was just having this conversation with somebody the other day about, I was with a referee actually, and I go, you know, we need tournaments back in MMA.

[930] And they go, well, you know, we can run tournaments.

[931] I go, no, I know the fucking stupid ruling where they say, oh, as long as you don't exceed a five, five minute round in a night.

[932] And I go, that doesn't, if I'm fighting pro boxing, I'm out there for 36 minutes.

[933] You're telling me that an M .A fighter can't go 36 minutes.

[934] If you gave me 36 minutes, then you could go two fives and three fives in a final.

[935] And he's like, well, there's guys that can barely get through one five now.

[936] I go, well, fuck, good.

[937] Hopefully they get the shit kicked out of them.

[938] They fucking figure out either A, how to be able to go past a five, or B, this ain't the sport for you.

[939] I mean, we're not supposed to make it.

[940] So when you're a professional, everybody doesn't need to be able to compete.

[941] When you're an amateur, I have some understanding.

[942] Everyone should be able to get in the ring with a modest amount of training.

[943] uh to go out there and do it but not pros why do you think that they should bring back tournaments every combat sport in the world has tournaments everything and we love it we love the shit out of tournaments japan loves everything fighting and going to tournaments so much they fucking make they'll have a tv show and it's battle and there's a piece of celery versus a yam like which is i don't even know how you compare those to or why how you make them fight didn't even give them little knives or anything but for a shield and a truck A lot of people fighters don't want to do tournaments because they feel like, say if there's a four -man tournament, you have a fight in the first round, and you win in 10 seconds by a knockout, and then they go two rounds, and there's a draw, so they go to a third round, it's brutal, they're all bang the fuck up, and then they have to fight you in the finals, and you went through 10 seconds of fighting, and they've been, they got the fuck beat out of them, and they're all banged up.

[944] It's not fair.

[945] A better fighter, I guess.

[946] Is that really what it is?

[947] What if the draw is?

[948] What if you got Fador and your opponent got Willie the Wimp?

[949] Willie the Wimp in his Cadillac Coffin, and Willie the Wimp got Catoed in the first round, and then you went...

[950] Or what if he had no rounds?

[951] And then the other guy gets Vanderlay, and he's Crow Cop.

[952] Yeah, well, you did do that.

[953] So what?

[954] Fuck it.

[955] You know what I did?

[956] I laid in the back.

[957] I had IVs.

[958] I had ice on me. And honestly, the biggest problem wasn't even the fighting.

[959] it was getting heat exhaustion before I even showed up for the tournament because dead summer of Orange County and we had no air conditioning whatsoever, no breezeways in that old gym and I started off doing 10 minute rounds just going through name pro fighters owning them and then all of a sudden eight minutes then six minutes then four then I can barely get a two minute round off without falling apart and I'm just going what the fuck is wrong with me and then people start packing me with ice bags in between rounds and in between sessions and all of a sudden my energy would start to come back some, I just go, oh, well, this is fucked.

[960] But, oh, well, let's get over there and do it.

[961] So you were training, and as you were training, you had no air conditioning in the gym, and you were getting heat exhaustion?

[962] Yeah, it was fucking 100 degrees outside of times.

[963] And that's fucked with your conditioning when you actually went to fight because you never were able to push.

[964] By the time, I could push, but, I mean, there were things like when Nogarra mounted me, right?

[965] I gave him my arm on purpose because I couldn't get him off a mount because I couldn't expend that kind of energy, just wasn't there.

[966] So I know if he goes to try and arm bar me That shit ain't gonna happen So this is just because of all the time That you spent in the gym Under heat exhaustion Yes So you were never able to do those 10 minute rounds Those long rounds in the gym Because just no It just got too hot Why didn't you guys put fucking air conditioning in your gym Not my gym, not my decision God damn it Eric Paulson Is it his gym?

[967] Yeah it's his gym But cheap fuck I just kidding I struggled to get back Until it took me about Until next year, before I really finally fucking felt better again.

[968] When I fought nastily, I was still just struggling.

[969] My CNS was shot, the central nervous system.

[970] Really?

[971] All just from the heat exhaust.

[972] Oh, dude, it's so bad.

[973] Wow.

[974] What about Cronk Jim, the fucking Detroit?

[975] They would crank up the heat, and everybody would box up.

[976] I hate that shit.

[977] And everybody is, I'm more susceptible to it, I think, than others, because I'm so white and Viking -like.

[978] Right.

[979] That if, you know, a little bit of cold would probably would have.

[980] done me some good right if you were you had some african dude in there sparring with you you have an advantage but uh some people don't take the the heat as well as others and some people do you know it's just a matter of fact and and here's the thing i got over there i fought my ass off i was exhausted i could have been bowed out and be like oh no crow cop he's just gonna he's just gonna walk over into the finals and everybody was going to be like oh he had a really tough fight with no garra that's acceptable we'll give him pass on that but i wouldn't give me a pass fuck that so what did I do?

[981] They put ice bags on anything.

[982] It was banged up.

[983] Doctors came back, gave me an IV and some vitamins and hung it off of the locker door and I just laid on the ground.

[984] And I had Megumi Fuji with me and my ex -girlfriend at the time and Eric and Hiro Yukiabe, my friends with me. And I just was there with them.

[985] And the officials come back and go, so are you going to fight the last fight?

[986] Like, yes, I am.

[987] Damn right I am.

[988] Because that's what a man does.

[989] And I fought...

[990] That's what a man does is in a tournament.

[991] That's what a man does is in a tournament.

[992] Let's get the fuck out of here.

[993] But, you know, I didn't show up to take second place.

[994] Right.

[995] I showed up to take first or die trying.

[996] And fuck it, you know.

[997] But why do you think that that's better to have a tournament?

[998] Like, what is it about it?

[999] Just because the public anticipates having those fights, watching how it plays out.

[1000] Interesting to see...

[1001] I mean, come on, look at March Madness.

[1002] It's one of the biggest things ever.

[1003] And if it wasn't a tournament, people would not be as excited.

[1004] Right, but that's a tournament over a long period of time.

[1005] They're not playing a bunch of games in a night.

[1006] That's actually a perfect example why it doesn't apply.

[1007] But I just mean the concept of tournaments.

[1008] And even doing tournaments over time is still great too.

[1009] But the one -night tournament is, let's see who comes out on top.

[1010] Plus, it's a great way to try and re -establish orders.

[1011] So let's say you have a whole bunch, a pool, you've got a handful of all these guys and you don't know who really fits where.

[1012] Boom.

[1013] They go through this one -night tournament.

[1014] Oh, there's a winner.

[1015] Someone was able to gut it out and come out on top and come out with all that, dealing with all that adversity.

[1016] And then you look down the line, like, who did what?

[1017] And then even the guy who did the worst in the tournament, let's say all of a sudden, non -tournament style, they start racking up the wins.

[1018] And it's like, oh, wow, you know, look at that story.

[1019] That person's coming back from what we would consider to be disaster.

[1020] And now they're Phoenix rising from the ashes.

[1021] You know, it gives such an opportunity to show human spirit, to show overcoming adversity, and it's an instant trade -off.

[1022] I think it's a great idea for grappling.

[1023] Eddie Bravo had the Eddie Bravo Invitational, the EBI, last week, and it was a tournament, and it was really exciting to watch.

[1024] Watch guys make it to the finals and watch guys, you know, you see the brackets play out.

[1025] I think it's great for grappling.

[1026] What I worry about it is with head injuries.

[1027] I worry about guys fighting the first round, getting their bell rang, having some internal bleeding, perhaps, and then fighting in the finals.

[1028] I don't think that the medical observation should be overlooked.

[1029] I think that's important.

[1030] But I really think tournaments would help bring some excitement back to M .A. But then here's the other thing.

[1031] I think five -minute rounds are not long enough.

[1032] I agree with you.

[1033] I think we need 10 -minute rounds at the very least.

[1034] Brian, you agree?

[1035] Yes, I do.

[1036] See, nod on your head over there.

[1037] Guys, I mean, let's not.

[1038] even talk about how the 10 -point must system doesn't belong in MMA at all.

[1039] Terrible.

[1040] But, and I understood why they use the 10 -point because it's to try and keep people honest.

[1041] Oh, you can see that they scored the round.

[1042] No one's sitting, that's, as it's been explained to me. But, uh, well, they just borrowed it from boxing.

[1043] It doesn't need it.

[1044] You know, he just, I liked it in Japan where they just look, okay.

[1045] And in Pancras, it used to be two judges on the outside and the ref. their judgments at the end.

[1046] If they decide all three of them convene, oh, he won.

[1047] I see, I disagree with that using the ref, because I think a referee should, I think that's a very singular job, and I think the referee's job should be making sure that...

[1048] I can see the argument there.

[1049] I'm just saying how it used to be.

[1050] But even still, no matter what the idea was, and back in pride, it was your criteria, Matt would sit ringside with a piece of paper, one name and then another name, and a line down the middle for each side, and he would sit there, and he would put hash marks in each box.

[1051] And those hash marks meant something along those criteria that were important, that he could look back and it would help him remember how this fight went.

[1052] Well, Matt's an excellent referee.

[1053] Oh, well, yeah, well, and this is just him as a judge, too.

[1054] But so I agree with, I'm more towards that side.

[1055] But even still, now you see guys just gaming a five -minute round stifling, doing this, doing that, and then petering off to the fucking the stool coming back out and just trying to run the same thing or win two out of three and then they walk out look at me it's like well you didn't even really try to kick that guy's ass well I won have fun with that what do you think about standups do do you think that standups should be a part of MMA yes but that has to be with and the other thing with MMA is it needs to be more attention to stalling if you're not trying to finish your opponent and damage them take them out you're stalling what do you think about if they do have rounds like say if you go a 10 minute round at the end of 10 minutes you're you're on top of the guy mounting him yeah start right back with the mount on the second round that's an interesting concept but uh i like standing him back up on the feet again but why that gives a striker a big advantage you need to be a well -rounded fighter right but if you work so hard to get a guy to the ground he didn't earn getting back up to his feet why should he be able to get back up to his feet well that's the whole concept of rounds is the of the contest right restart of you getting a chance to get back up that's true too yeah so if he can survive the round what does that mean if it if it is that dire to you that you cannot afford to have that guy ever get back to his feet either by the round ending or by him escaping or the referee standing you up for an activity well one you're fucked as a fighter anyways you're you have a huge deficit number two you better finish him right you better finish him that also goes to so hey if you're the greatest grappler submission guy in the world and you have no takedowns, enjoy getting your ass kicked.

[1056] Well, there's a few fighters that are really good at holding guys down.

[1057] And I don't think there's anything wrong with that because I think it's important to know that a guy can hold you down.

[1058] Like, Ben Ascran is my perfect example.

[1059] Ben Ascran is such a good fucking wrestler that he gets a hold of guys and he puts them on their back and they can't get back up.

[1060] And if that's the case, like standing a guy, giving a guy a free shot to stand back up because Ben Ascran may or may not be as active as you would like or might but still the guy who's on the bottom wants to get up but you can't right but you know you got 10 minutes to work I see and uh I think honestly with 10 minutes I don't think Ascran would have as many decisions as he does because while Ascran has kept a lot of people on their back I've seen him work a lot too looking for submissions punching he's not a power puncher he's a pillow puncher but one FC allows him do knees of the head on the ground that makes a big that's another thing I would change I think knees of the head soccer kick stomps You know, I'm all for all that.

[1061] But at the very least, needs to the head change things.

[1062] And a lot, especially even for the grappler.

[1063] But with 10 minutes, you want to call Ben Ascran boring?

[1064] I think in 10 minutes, he's got finishes.

[1065] Yeah.

[1066] I think that a lot of guys would have finishes.

[1067] But the other thing that changes that is when a ref is standing over the top going action, action, action, okay, get up.

[1068] You're stalling.

[1069] You know when a guy is stalling.

[1070] You know when a guy is not.

[1071] Yeah, but I think a guy who's stalling.

[1072] If you can't get that guy off, you, fuck you.

[1073] Well, that's a different fight then.

[1074] Is it, though?

[1075] Because the guy, you're on the bottom.

[1076] You're still fighting.

[1077] Right.

[1078] No, no. I hear you that way, but we're talking about prize fighting, entertainment.

[1079] Okay.

[1080] If it's the fight that you're talking about, that's not for entertainment.

[1081] No one wants to pay it to see that.

[1082] You know what that is?

[1083] That's catch wrestling in the 1800s.

[1084] That's pro wrestling in the 1900s where three hours plus of guys trying to get an advantage.

[1085] and can't because they're so well -versed of each other they're so tough they're so skilled one guy getting stuck on the bottom he can't get up there's no restarts there's no nothing there's no there's no there goes let's see when that first fall comes but that died out it didn't work if you look at like say like what they were doing with elite xc that's like the worst case example of trying to make it entertaining sure sure and i'm not suggesting that you just explain what they used to do they used to make they stand people up 15 seconds yeah they were 15 seconds on the ground they stand you back up They stood up big country.

[1086] He was on top of Orlovsky, inside control, working at Camor, or would you call it double wrist lock?

[1087] I don't know if he was ever going to get it, but he was in an advantageous position.

[1088] He was working for a finish.

[1089] He should not have been stood up.

[1090] Yeah.

[1091] And he's an expert in that particular style of fighting.

[1092] He's a submission expert.

[1093] He's a ground guy.

[1094] And he wasn't just laying on him.

[1095] He was trying to submit Arlofsky.

[1096] And, of course, with anything, you need, even as the sport sits now, we need better referees.

[1097] and we need better judges.

[1098] That stoppage last week.

[1099] Oh, that was awful.

[1100] They reversed that.

[1101] Oh, did they?

[1102] They reversed it.

[1103] Yeah, it's a no contest now.

[1104] Or even when Faber is down there getting walloped on his shoulder, and it's like, show me something.

[1105] One, you couldn't see his thumbs up.

[1106] I got it.

[1107] On the second hand, you can tell he's not getting his ass kicked right now.

[1108] Right.

[1109] Let it go.

[1110] Yeah.

[1111] Let a fucking go.

[1112] When a guy's turtling and the guy's just hitting your gloves and arms and the then the fight gets stopped.

[1113] That is very frustrating.

[1114] I have a problem with that.

[1115] I watched all these fights back in the day.

[1116] I'd seen dudes getting shell -shocked on top.

[1117] Just artillery dropped on them and surviving it.

[1118] Then reversing the fight, dudes all totally petered out.

[1119] Brock Lesnar and Shane Carwin.

[1120] And just kicking the shit out of them.

[1121] Yeah.

[1122] It happens.

[1123] And Brock Lesnar and Carwin, that's a good example too.

[1124] But no one wants to let that happen anymore.

[1125] Oh, that's too brutal.

[1126] Well, we're fighting.

[1127] We're not doing patty cake.

[1128] Well, there's always that thing about trying to make it more appealing to the mainstream.

[1129] It'll be better for everybody.

[1130] And yet it's not better for the people that are actually doing it.

[1131] No. It's definitely not better for someone who gets stuck in a position and they, you know, intelligently defend yourself.

[1132] Well, guess what?

[1133] There's some positions where when a guy's wailing on you, it's intelligent to just cover up.

[1134] Sure.

[1135] Remember Tank and Severn?

[1136] Severn kept palm striking him and just throwing all these shots.

[1137] And Severn wasn't, he wasn't palm striking because he didn't know how to punch.

[1138] It's because he didn't want to break his hand.

[1139] right no gloves no wraps so he's smacking uh tank the tank he tries to get up but he can't now one of these modern refs would probably stop that fight oh you're not intelligently defending yourself he's not going to go out he's not getting his bell rung he's not getting the shit kicked out of him he just can't get up right now you hear what when frank talked about or when uh -uh he said i had a nightmare i was getting molested by freddie mercury yeah uh And if Tank tried to get up, he was just getting controlled, he couldn't get up, but Severin didn't have the ability to really finish him either.

[1140] Right.

[1141] So it is what it is.

[1142] That's what it is, you know, the fight needed to keep going.

[1143] But I don't think that should be stood up.

[1144] What about, no, not in that case, because Severin was incredibly active.

[1145] Right.

[1146] He was trying, he just didn't really have the, the skill.

[1147] Yeah, yeah.

[1148] And here's another one, Ruan Potts, getting punched in the ribs and them stopping it because he's just, he's stuck there.

[1149] Anthony Hamilton, yeah.

[1150] Do you see him tapping?

[1151] No. Do you see him saying, I want out?

[1152] No. Yeah, I didn't agree with that either.

[1153] I don't care how much he's getting punched in the fucking ribs.

[1154] Let him get punched in the ribs.

[1155] They stopped that fight just to rescue everybody from how boring it was.

[1156] Because he was just on top of him punching him in the same spot.

[1157] Everybody's like, we've seen enough.

[1158] Oh, look at that bruise.

[1159] So what?

[1160] It is bruised.

[1161] This is a bruised.

[1162] He's going to be so sore tomorrow.

[1163] He's going to have a black and blue spot.

[1164] Yes.

[1165] A real black and blue spot.

[1166] Oh, my God.

[1167] I might even turn yellow and purple at some point.

[1168] It could very well turn like a, oh.

[1169] orangey greeny kind of a thing oh god we can't allow that that's what i'm saying what if what if stand them up yeah yeah or stop the fight all together that's not intelligent defense there's not an intelligent there's certain guys that fight in the ufc we got to go man who the fuck let you fight in the ufc well they need a lot of fighters they have so many events so so so many events they got to fill them up i mean there's guys do you think there's too many yes yeah i do there are but uh you know they have a plan for what they're trying to accomplish and this This is what they see is the path to doing so.

[1170] You know what I think there should be?

[1171] I think it should be an A league and a B league.

[1172] I agree.

[1173] I think there should be a UFC and a Strike Force.

[1174] I agree.

[1175] If Tuesday night fights should have one headliner type dude or one main card type guy and a rest of just up -and -comers.

[1176] Yeah, why not?

[1177] I mean, and then those guys will graduate to become, you know.

[1178] Right.

[1179] Well, can you imagine if it used, even this, what if they kept Strike Force and UFC?

[1180] And let's say Strike Force went pride style and U .S. UFC was UFC, and then they had a Super Bowl match every year, and each year it would switch.

[1181] This year, it's pride rules.

[1182] This year, it's UFC rules.

[1183] Oh, God, I can hear it now.

[1184] Oh, but the difference in the, if you can't fight in one or the other, if it is that dire to you as an athlete, that you can only be successful in one arena, you're just not that good.

[1185] Well, you're not that well -rounded.

[1186] Well, for sure, but I mean, anything you can do in one, you can do in the other, really.

[1187] Really?

[1188] We did see big differences between guys fighting in the cage and guys fighting in the ring.

[1189] That had anything to do with it?

[1190] No. You don't think Crow Cop was talking about how big of a different?

[1191] It was it was.

[1192] Elbows on the ground was a big difference.

[1193] That definitely changes some things, but no, I don't think that was it.

[1194] So you think it's just a lack of preparation, proper preparation?

[1195] I personally don't have a perfect answer for that, but I don't believe it was that.

[1196] Well, obviously, he did much better after that.

[1197] Yes, he got better at figuring out the cage and the elbows on the ground and the defense.

[1198] Yes.

[1199] So it's probably just a lack of the proper preparation.

[1200] Maybe.

[1201] There's only a few places.

[1202] Like if you really looked at young athletes today, they want to compete in MMA, is there a dozen places in this country that you could go and get a proper education as far as, like, being a real professional MMA fighter?

[1203] Is he even a dozen?

[1204] You know, well, I can't say I've done all the research to say conclusively one way or the other.

[1205] I know that AMC, CSW.

[1206] One of the best.

[1207] AMC is, I mean, Matt Hume.

[1208] is about as knowledgeable as anybody's ever lived.

[1209] Well, and look, Matt Hume and Eric Paulson are kind of cut from the same claw in that their lineage comes down from Carl Gatch, from the shoot from Siama and Funaki and, you know, well -rounded, full -meal -deal dues.

[1210] They could do everything.

[1211] Yep.

[1212] And, you know, so there's that.

[1213] But, I mean, I don't know.

[1214] I mean, I imagine Greg Jackson's could probably make you a...

[1215] For us a hobby.

[1216] Yeah, maybe.

[1217] I mean, I've never trained under these people.

[1218] I knew that I was very, when I moved from, when I moved from Matt's gym to go train somewhere else, it was really hard for me to find, there wasn't very many people back then and that I felt like I could go there and learn where I wouldn't be the one dictating all the training all the time.

[1219] I would be somewhere where I could learn and be trained.

[1220] What made you decide to go from Seattle and then live in Southern California?

[1221] How come you don't stay up there and train with Matt?

[1222] At the time, it just wasn't really feasible.

[1223] I didn't have the sparring partners, and Matt wasn't really around that much.

[1224] So I was ending up having to do a lot of my own training.

[1225] Because he was going to pride to judge.

[1226] He had a lot of stuff on his plate, and especially, like I said, I had no sparring partners.

[1227] I had nothing.

[1228] Reese Sandy was my main dude, and we would do a lot of training together.

[1229] somewhat Jeff Munson, but a lot of time I'd end up teaching Jeff and even teaching Reese, and they were great guys, and I learned a lot from, they were very, very, very helpful, but I didn't have sparring partners.

[1230] And then I just thought, well, this isn't the place to be.

[1231] Seattle is my barren favorite place in the U .S. One of my favorite place in the whole world.

[1232] I think it's an amazing city.

[1233] Do you like clouds?

[1234] I like flannel.

[1235] Depression, suicide.

[1236] Depression and heroin altogether.

[1237] Coffee.

[1238] Stinky pussy.

[1239] Oh, Stinky Pussy.

[1240] What did you come up with that?

[1241] Yeah, what the hell?

[1242] Why do you have some Seattle's stinky pussy stories or what?

[1243] Yeah, what are you talking about?

[1244] They just never clean it.

[1245] They're just all in bed, sleeping, crying, and shit.

[1246] That's not true at all.

[1247] No way.

[1248] First of all, you're not really supposed to clean your pussy.

[1249] Yeah, it's the thing about pussies.

[1250] It's the self -cleaning organ.

[1251] They have a lot of probiotic stuff up there, like yogurts and kimchi that they've made from the farmer's market.

[1252] They're good.

[1253] It's actually important for women to not.

[1254] do that like douching and stuff that's like super bad for you yeah isn't that amazing me used to promote that all the time girls thought they had to do it my mom did it all the time how do you know this because when i was a kid when i was a kid i used one of the what's that vacuum noise who who opened up the hoover dam when i was a kid uh i saw one of those empty bottles in the trash can and i used it to drink coolate out of because i thought it was a cool bottle because i had like that cool straw thing I believe, every minute of this.

[1255] She never told me what it was until, like, years later.

[1256] And then when he found out, he thought it was even cooler.

[1257] Yeah, your mom was, you were walking around the house, sucking on your mom's douche bag.

[1258] I swear to God.

[1259] And she was like, go ahead, Brian, play outside.

[1260] Yeah, go see those power lines?

[1261] Go climb them.

[1262] Here, have this lead paint sandwich right now.

[1263] But, uh...

[1264] It's a true story.

[1265] Yeah, you know, all that duching.

[1266] And now, all that duching has now reversed.

[1267] It's come full frontal and where people wear it.

[1268] now with like all the dragons and fucking flirtilees and valour on their shirts how's that douching oh they're outside dune i get it anyways external douche external douche but uh you know i i wanted to go somewhere where one i knew there would be no uh issues in trying to find people to work out with and soCal is still in my opinion the mecca of mMA and jiu jitzu and then uh big guys right For a guy like you, it's important to have heavy guys to train with.

[1269] Heavy guys, quality guys.

[1270] You need a whole lot of different kinds of guys.

[1271] Yeah, you need both, right?

[1272] Guys that shave, guys that don't shave.

[1273] Really?

[1274] Sure.

[1275] Why not?

[1276] But for you, it really is important to have heavy good guys, right?

[1277] Like, for a guy like you, like, say if you were working out with a bunch of really good middle weights, it's not good enough, right?

[1278] Depends on what I'm trying to work on.

[1279] If I'm just going against a guy, it's just working on passing somebody's guard or something like that, sure, fine.

[1280] Or just catching a leg.

[1281] fine but if I need to have someone to push me I need someone to be able to match me with strength and weight all that kind of stuff and then Eric was down here also everything else that you could jump off from fighting as an entertainment commodity into anything else acting that's what you keep bringing that up is that what you're trying to do now do is it like you're smart dude like you you think about your athletic career you know you can't do this forever.

[1282] Everybody's athletic window is a very small portion of their life.

[1283] It's important, but you need to not just be the best athlete.

[1284] You need to grow as a person, and you need to be able to, it's not about setting up plan B. It's about evolving as a person.

[1285] It's about opening new doors and doing new things and growing and having new opportunities.

[1286] And so I've been acting.

[1287] I've done commentary.

[1288] I'm doing commentary on New Japan Pro Wrestling on Access right now.

[1289] And that's just, not new to me. I've done, I've never done pro wrestling commentary, but I've done tons of fight commentary.

[1290] I did commentary for pride.

[1291] I did commentary for some other events from pancras.

[1292] And it was like, cool, I can do this.

[1293] And that's no problem, even though, and people keep hitting me up.

[1294] Why don't you do UFC events?

[1295] Why don't you do this?

[1296] Why do you?

[1297] Like, well, no one, they're not hiring me. So that's why I'm not doing commentary there.

[1298] And then I got the Stephen Segal movie coming out, Absolution.

[1299] It should be out relatively soon.

[1300] Do you have to spar with Stephen Segal in this movie?

[1301] I did Not half to spar as well as my balls are perfectly intact.

[1302] I didn't have any fight scenes with him.

[1303] Did you have scenes with him, acting scenes?

[1304] Not really.

[1305] He was in a scene where I'm in the background.

[1306] I just end up getting into a fight with his sidekick guy anyways.

[1307] So I give that dude his hero moment, Byron Man, who did a great job.

[1308] And I've got another movie that should be coming out sometime this year called Chuck Hank and the San Diego Twins.

[1309] It's an indie film.

[1310] It's fucking completely insane.

[1311] So how do you balance that between training?

[1312] Are you, like, leaning more towards that area now?

[1313] You haven't fought since the Travis Brown fight, right?

[1314] How long ago was that?

[1315] That was a year?

[1316] Last year, 2014, December.

[1317] Do you have anything on your plate right now?

[1318] I'm hoping at some point to get a word on whether or not I'm fighting Roy Nelson because we, it was brought up, someone brought up the idea of Roy and me doing Meta Morris.

[1319] Yeah, that's what I had to do.

[1320] And I just like, oh, okay, really?

[1321] And then Roy said, nah, that sounds cool.

[1322] but we fight first.

[1323] It pays better.

[1324] And I went, well, if you're willing, I'm willing.

[1325] And he said, good, let's make it happen.

[1326] I said, well, I guess that's that.

[1327] If we say we're willing to fight and we're ready to step up and go, then you know what's legit.

[1328] And have there been any conversations with Joe Silva or the UFC?

[1329] I imagine my manager is dealing with all of that.

[1330] Oh, so you haven't?

[1331] No. So your manager was informed of all this stuff and, hey, go deal with that.

[1332] Yeah, pretty much.

[1333] I got to act.

[1334] Pretty much.

[1335] I got to hit acting class.

[1336] Now, you wouldn't be opposed to doing a metamoros with him, though.

[1337] No, I'm not opposed to doing a metamoros with anybody.

[1338] I don't think I'll ever get a chance to finish the rubber match with Nogara, but I could at least probably get him on the mat and metamoros.

[1339] Do you think so?

[1340] I think so.

[1341] I mean, I don't see why he wouldn't want to do it and why people wouldn't want to see that.

[1342] But I've already got a Brayu cyborg coming up May 9th for Mennamores 6.

[1343] Very interesting.

[1344] That's very interesting, especially after you just submitted Dean Lister.

[1345] That's very huge, dude.

[1346] Submitting Dean Lister is a gigantic accomplishment.

[1347] It hadn't been done in 16 years.

[1348] That's amazing.

[1349] Not since the Clinton administration had anybody tapped Dean Lister.

[1350] And the way you got them with that choke, I mean, that's, that is some old school shit.

[1351] That's high school wrestling practically.

[1352] Yeah, and with wrestling shoes on and the old school spandex, that sexy spandex.

[1353] Oh, man. Take a little, pull out the photo of Josh Barnett.

[1354] No, would you, did you wear this, Josh Barnett?

[1355] Ladies and make your eyes.

[1356] Please.

[1357] Let's you like your panties to catch fire.

[1358] Prepare your vaginas for a fury of hormones.

[1359] Did you wear this like as a, like an homage to pro wrestling?

[1360] Absolutely.

[1361] It was an homage to my trainers, Billy Robinson, Carl Gotch, and also to Eric, because that's from his roots in Matt Hume.

[1362] But it's from my training, my roots, my heritage, my catch wrestling.

[1363] training and to Antonio Inoki, who was one of my trainers for professional wrestling.

[1364] So I had the towel around my neck, the robe, even the way I took the robe off and everything.

[1365] It was all that, the black boots.

[1366] It's all black.

[1367] It's all in homage and respect to my catch wrestling roots and my trainers.

[1368] Well, I think it's important to highlight those roots, too, for just the lineage of MMA, because a lot of folks that are on the outside are not aware that there were several different branches of submission fighting.

[1369] You know, not just judo, not just juxtu, not just samba, but catch wrestling had some really legit submissions that are still used today and a lot of really great grapplers, but catch wrestling eventually sort of morphed into professional wrestling and a lot of folks are not aware of the original aspect of catch wrestling, which you're talking about these three -hour matches and guys that would go to, they would do carnival matches, where they would go roll into town and wrestle anybody in the house?

[1370] Do you know who owned a big old carnival in Brazil?

[1371] Who?

[1372] The head of the Gracie family at the time.

[1373] Gustal.

[1374] Really?

[1375] He owned a carnival and he had professional wrestling, catch wrestling matches at his carnival.

[1376] Who should happen to come and perform in one of these catch wrestling matches?

[1377] But the Count Coma, Mitsuo Maeda.

[1378] He stayed in Brazil.

[1379] Carlos Gracie started training under him in judo and catch.

[1380] That is where now all of a sudden you have Gracie Jiu -Jitsu.

[1381] So it's sort of branched off from a bunch of different sources, not just from judo, but from catch wrestling as well.

[1382] Right, because Maeda had been traveling the world competing in catch matches and all that.

[1383] Kimura competed in catch matches as well.

[1384] So even the Americana arm lock came from American wrestlers.

[1385] Catch.

[1386] The Lute de Leverre background comes from catch.

[1387] tattoo Euclides Hatham, he was a catch wrestler.

[1388] He was trained to do show matches, but at the same time he trained, even back then, even if you did works, you trained as a shooter.

[1389] You trained to do that shit for real.

[1390] Look at this beautiful outfit.

[1391] Look at this motherfucker.

[1392] Comes out with a robe on.

[1393] This is so old school of you.

[1394] Look at this.

[1395] To do this in Meta Morris, you almost had to feel like you're kind of wearing like a costume.

[1396] Yeah, I knew that people would be unfamiliar, they wouldn't understand it.

[1397] Well, a lot of people did understand it, though.

[1398] A lot of people on the underground especially were like, look at the shit.

[1399] And those socks are for, in reference to all my time spent in Japan and, you know, the people I've trained over there.

[1400] But they, you know, they laughed when I said I was going to wear shoes.

[1401] They're like, oh, my God, you're going to wear shoes against Dean Lister.

[1402] Oh, I don't think you should do that.

[1403] Dean Lister is a leglock specialist.

[1404] Right.

[1405] Shoes provide a lot of extra traction for holding on the leg locks.

[1406] Oh, I can't believe you're going to wear a shoe.

[1407] Are you still going to do it up until the day of the event?

[1408] You're really going to wear shoes?

[1409] Yes.

[1410] I go out there, I tap him.

[1411] All those shoes, that gave him such an advantage.

[1412] Oh, but I'm like, oh, fuck, are you kidding me?

[1413] Now the shoes are not my detriment.

[1414] They're my disadvantage.

[1415] Oh, and then it was, you weighed so much more than Dean.

[1416] Dean was like 240.

[1417] I don't know.

[1418] I was like 255, so I had 15 pounds on them.

[1419] I hug.

[1420] I gave Dean a hug the day of the way ends.

[1421] Well, we didn't actually weigh in, but I gave him a hug, and my fingers, I had to go catch fingers and roll my grip into it to actually get all the way around him.

[1422] He was so fucking thick.

[1423] He's a big fucker.

[1424] Thick and vainy, purple.

[1425] Whoa, easy.

[1426] Slow down.

[1427] You want to help me on my, throbbing.

[1428] Ground game?

[1429] Yeah, sure, sure.

[1430] Don't worry about it these days.

[1431] He was a big, massive guy.

[1432] When he fought Babelieu, I was really shocked that he was allowing almost Babelieu to lock up Darcy.

[1433] on him.

[1434] Like, Babelieu is a really good submission guy.

[1435] Yeah, he is.

[1436] He's excellent.

[1437] Dean's just so wily at getting out all that stuff.

[1438] Yeah, I was shocked.

[1439] I was shocked that he was allowing that.

[1440] But it also looked like he didn't have the gas to go a full 20.

[1441] Like, you know, Babelieu at the end of the match was in way better shape than Dean was.

[1442] I agree.

[1443] It's carrying around all that muscle, all that mass that he carried.

[1444] You're a bigger guy.

[1445] Like, he might be 240, but a lot of that is Mexican supplements.

[1446] There's a big difference between your two 240 and his 240.

[1447] I don't know.

[1448] I mean, I think avocado hot sauce, you know, that stuff has done wonders for endurance.

[1449] I am speaking of different supplements, sir.

[1450] But I mean, I'm the green sauce.

[1451] He's so skilled and talented, too.

[1452] I mean, it's not just all the extra muscle is packed up.

[1453] He was strong as shit when I wrestled him.

[1454] And apparently his guys and him, Dean said he wrestled a lot of big dudes.

[1455] They wrestled against guys for pressure from top.

[1456] And it's just that I was able to apply it that much better.

[1457] Did you think that you were going to be able to catch him with that choke?

[1458] Was that something specifically that you had saw before?

[1459] Did you game plan?

[1460] Well, yeah.

[1461] Well, Rico Rodriguez was the last guy to tap him.

[1462] Before that, and how did he tap him with?

[1463] Same choke.

[1464] Exactly.

[1465] Oh, shit.

[1466] You know who taught Rico the choke, by the way?

[1467] Who?

[1468] Eric Paulson.

[1469] Get the fuck out of here.

[1470] Boxing works in Redondo Beach.

[1471] Yes.

[1472] God damn, man. Yeah.

[1473] God damn.

[1474] You know, I remember first hearing about catch wrestling.

[1475] Was it Frank Gotch?

[1476] Was he the one that would drop?

[1477] No. Who was the guy that would drop?

[1478] down.

[1479] It was a small dude.

[1480] What the fuck was his name?

[1481] God damn it.

[1482] I'm so out of the catch wrestling.

[1483] Was that who the guy was that used to drop, he used to do like hang men's drops?

[1484] Oh, that is Farmer Burns.

[1485] Farmer Burns.

[1486] Farmer Burns.

[1487] Farmer Burns.

[1488] Who is Frank Gotcher's coach.

[1489] I knew there was an F in there somewhere.

[1490] It's Farmer.

[1491] Yeah, he can hang himself and not go out and not break his neck.

[1492] Yeah, there's pictures of it.

[1493] Look up Farmer Burns' catch wrestling image.

[1494] See if you find an image of this guy fucking hanging himself.

[1495] It's more.

[1496] Yeah, look at that.

[1497] Look at that fucking picture.

[1498] The guy hung himself.

[1499] That's how strong his fucking neck was.

[1500] He would hang his whole, probably really good for decompression of the spine.

[1501] I actually do a thing in my house where I put...

[1502] Are you jerking off at the same time?

[1503] Oh, I wear a wet suit.

[1504] There's a black dildo.

[1505] I have this thing that I bought, a spinal decompression setup that hangs from a door.

[1506] You put it on the, like a door, like a bathroom door.

[1507] It's like this bolt.

[1508] It screws him.

[1509] place, it has like an arm, and then you ratchet it, like, click, click, and it, like, decompresses your spine.

[1510] It's like a nice little stretch.

[1511] Right.

[1512] But this motherfucker's hang.

[1513] David, David Carrotene did, too.

[1514] I don't think that's the same.

[1515] I don't think what he did was different.

[1516] How does that not just rip your door off the head?

[1517] Because you're not really putting your whole weight on it.

[1518] You're sitting down, first of all.

[1519] You do it in a chair.

[1520] Like, say this thing, it's Velcroing to your head.

[1521] Here, like, um...

[1522] I know what you're talking about.

[1523] You know what I'm talking about?

[1524] I do know what you're talking about.

[1525] And it's, uh, I think if you can use it properly, uh, it would, it, it's a good it's a good thing having spinal decompression is important uh but what he was doing was not that no no exactly it's insane and uh you know catch catch wrestlers trained fucking hard as shit this is what's like brian no that's not it jammy fuck see this oh wow see this thing yeah that's craziness that's exactly what i use his face looks just like that when he does it too yeah it just it stretches your neck a little bit I think you got a jockstrap racked around your jaw.

[1526] That's not what it looks like a bra.

[1527] It's more like a bra.

[1528] Oh, God.

[1529] I've pissed off so many women when I've said, oh, hey, whatever, blah, blah, blah.

[1530] Don't forget your training bra.

[1531] Training, training, like, training being athletic.

[1532] Yeah, nah, I didn't mean.

[1533] Yeah, you can't say that.

[1534] I just get the evil look.

[1535] I'm like, I don't mean.

[1536] Like, you have new tits.

[1537] Yeah, I meant the bra when you train.

[1538] What do they call one of those?

[1539] Sports bra.

[1540] Sports bra.

[1541] Sports bra.

[1542] Not a training bra.

[1543] You got to be real specific.

[1544] It is a bra that you train in.

[1545] That's not how they look at it.

[1546] But it's not a training bra.

[1547] It's a very different animal.

[1548] No, it will get you all kinds of heat.

[1549] But dudes wouldn't get upset.

[1550] If you said, you pick up your training underwear.

[1551] What if you said, go get your training bra, he's like, what?

[1552] Yeah, but if you told the guy, go pick up your training cup.

[1553] What do you think, like, oh, my dick's growing?

[1554] What are you trying to say?

[1555] Getting used to wearing a cup?

[1556] Yeah, you need support in all the right places.

[1557] You know, this is a very random question, or it's very specific, I should say.

[1558] What do you think about tie steel cups for grappling competitions?

[1559] Oh, yeah, sure.

[1560] They're getting outlawed in a lot of grappling competitions because they provide that extra leverage.

[1561] They're like a fulcrum point, like a leverage point.

[1562] Okay, then everybody's got a free ball.

[1563] Free ball.

[1564] You know, you just got to use that third hook, wrap your dingus around there.

[1565] See, you bring Brian on these podcasts.

[1566] Everything goes in the fucking 12 -year -olds.

[1567] Well, here's a thing.

[1568] Here's a, no, I mean, I'm here.

[1569] I'm barely 11 and a half.

[1570] So I wouldn't have, I don't, I usually don't train with a cup.

[1571] You don't?

[1572] No, because my legs are so big that it's, it rubs you?

[1573] It puts bruising in the inside of my thighs.

[1574] I personally, I have a thing I like to call combat cock, where everything just pulls in.

[1575] Yeah.

[1576] Do you know those guys?

[1577] It knows better than to get fucking hanging out there.

[1578] Hey, how you doing?

[1579] What's up?

[1580] High five with your foot.

[1581] Oh, your dick is educated.

[1582] My dick is smart, just like the Shaolin Monks.

[1583] I've known guys that have lost a ball from that.

[1584] Yeah, not me. Yeah, well, there was Brian Foster as it was.

[1585] It was fighting for the UFC.

[1586] He is in training and he got kicked in the balls and lost one of his balls.

[1587] Yeah.

[1588] Did he ever find it?

[1589] You got stupid dick.

[1590] You got stupid dick.

[1591] Yeah, he got dumb dick.

[1592] Terrible decisions.

[1593] What's going on?

[1594] How you doing?

[1595] Yeah, his dick is always like, what are you doing going there?

[1596] Have you seen where his dick has been?

[1597] Can you imagine?

[1598] I have been.

[1599] Have you?

[1600] Have you?

[1601] Yes.

[1602] I have it.

[1603] I have.

[1604] I have.

[1605] I have it.

[1606] like pictures oh you've been in the room fuck not the same room you know the room after it was over you just want to take like a whole like a bottle of paint thinner and be like you need to just dip in this real quick did you guys see that thing there was a fucking guy who is a scientist for Monsanto and was trying to say that to pull it off of my my YouTube my rather my Twitter feed this is hilarious I retweeted it this fucking Monsanto scientist was trying to say that um this pesticide was totally safe to drink, the stuff that's in Roundup, and then you could drink it and nothing would go wrong.

[1607] So, there's a video of him saying it.

[1608] I'm fucking idiot.

[1609] And so he's talking to this journalist, and the journalist was, really, you would drink it.

[1610] And he goes, sure, I would drink it.

[1611] He goes, okay, we're going to get your glass and you drink it.

[1612] Like, watch this.

[1613] GMO advocate says Monsanto herbicide, safe to drink.

[1614] glyphosate is a chemical that's it glyphosate glyphosate watch this shit to formities and children growing into country's agricultural region Monsanto has denied any wrongdoing and that the product is safe and that's where Dr. Patrick Moore comes in the Monsanto lobbyist sat down with French cable channel Canal Plus Moore said you could drink an entire quart of this product wouldn't hurt you drink a whole quart of it and it won't hurt you You want to drink some we have some here I'd be happy to actually Oh, not really, but I know it wouldn't hurt me. That's when the interviewer asked more to put his money where his mouth was and drink the weed killer.

[1615] Okay, then it's finished.

[1616] Then the interview is finished.

[1617] That's a good way to solve things.

[1618] Yeah.

[1619] Wow.

[1620] Well, wait, why did this?

[1621] Is it a complete jerk?

[1622] Did you hear that?

[1623] Apparently, it was more to it.

[1624] A complete jerk and franchise Cunard.

[1625] Is this the one that was on my Twitter feed?

[1626] Maybe I watched more than one version of this, but the conversation lasted a little longer than What a fucking dickless asshole Editing piece of shit.

[1627] Isn't that amazing?

[1628] It's like I would drink it.

[1629] Okay, you want to drink it?

[1630] No. You're a complete jerk.

[1631] Complete jerk.

[1632] For his calling me. That guy's a doctor.

[1633] How fucking stupid can you be?

[1634] When you go to school, you're a doctor.

[1635] You get a degree and then you're smart enough where you get hired by Monsanto.

[1636] You're smart enough where you do interviews and you're expected to be an expert.

[1637] But you're so fucking stupid.

[1638] You say something like, oh, you could drink it.

[1639] I would drink it.

[1640] get you would drink it we have some do you think that's stupid or do you think he's just being a piece of shit and trying to lie for mont santo i think both did they go into it and go like we broke down the chemicals in this it would actually be safe like did they expand that at all uh no because a lot of those things like the real issue is prolonged exposure like i know a dude who has bone cancer and he got bone cancer because his family lived near a golf course and the golf course used a lot of pesticides and it infected the well water and all the kids in the neighborhood got cancer too like his next door neighbor got cancer his dude who lived across the street got cancer because it was so important to keep that grass nice and lush right i don't think they knew i think there's a lot of carcinogens i'll give them that and that back in a day they didn't understand how potentially hazardous uh long -term effects versus short -term could be even yeah they didn't really know how bad cigarettes were entirely at a point but then it came a point that they did know i mean cigarettes still blow me away yeah why do you add the shit in all the poisons and stuff.

[1641] It's okay, you're inhaling smoke, which is, we all know is bad.

[1642] You can die from smoke inhalations.

[1643] Carcinogens are in there.

[1644] Fine.

[1645] We got it.

[1646] Do you have to add all the other crap that's in it?

[1647] They add all the shit and all those garbage.

[1648] Just to get you more addicted.

[1649] Why don't you just give them the fucking leaf?

[1650] Did you ever seen?

[1651] Or be it fucking tobacco.

[1652] Just let them smoke it.

[1653] Let them know what's going to happen.

[1654] But you don't have to help them.

[1655] You don't have to fucking add rat poison to it.

[1656] I'll try American spirits and compared to it like a Marlboro Light.

[1657] It's a huge difference in like taste and everything but yeah it's they shouldn't do it but okay so explain to us so you say the american spirits tastes like shit and the marlbrose tastes better american spirits last forever i mean you can have one cigarette it takes like 15 minutes and sure of like two uh -huh it's it's a hars you wake up the next day you're like spitting up goobers and like it's really bad for you feeling uh body wise where marl like you can smoke a whole pack what about pipe smokers i mean i've known I mean, one, that shit usually smells good around here.

[1658] Yeah, it does smell good, right?

[1659] And two, they don't seem to be...

[1660] Yeah, well, Bertrand Russell, didn't he live to be like fucking 90 something?

[1661] He smoked cigarettes every day?

[1662] Or smoked a pipe every day?

[1663] You'll find people anywhere willing to, for the right amount of money to just fucking railroad humanity.

[1664] Yeah.

[1665] They just will do it.

[1666] I mean, what about all these climate change?

[1667] Fucking asshole.

[1668] Climate change deniers.

[1669] Yeah.

[1670] Well, there's someone to find out when they're getting paid.

[1671] Right.

[1672] And you know what's funny is there's actually, you can go online and find all the senators and all the congressmen that are all climate change deniers.

[1673] You can find them all.

[1674] They've listed all their names.

[1675] Well, it's not just that.

[1676] How about the different doctors that are testifying against marijuana?

[1677] You find out they're being paid by pharmaceutical companies.

[1678] This time and time again, experts have been co -opted by money.

[1679] But when you see it's so clear that like this fucking guy, you could drink a whole quart of it and you'd be fine.

[1680] Okay, you want to drink it?

[1681] No, you're a complete jerk.

[1682] I wouldn't drink a whole quart of fucking Orange Shes Yeah And they say that's safe right Which I don't know but I'm not gonna drink a quart of it Yeah fuck that If you did you would want to throw up I'm sure you would Yeah I mean a quart of First of all it's a powder you can really drink a quart of it You could pour a quart The amount of liquid you would have to have to drink a quart of splendor Or how about just a quart of water with a appropriately dissolved solid of splendor within it.

[1683] I'll do it.

[1684] It would only help him.

[1685] I know.

[1686] I know.

[1687] This is what?

[1688] Because look, if you've survived all the horrible encounters you've had in your life up to this point, Brian, that...

[1689] Right.

[1690] What's that going to do?

[1691] Right?

[1692] I mean, you stared syphilis right dead in the eyes and told it to go fucking fuck off, you know?

[1693] Yeah, it's going to kill the AIDS inside of his body.

[1694] Just fucking...

[1695] I can't deal.

[1696] with this this is one one level too far yeah i wonder if there's going to come a time in our future where these kind of guys these these guys who are obviously bought and paid just don't exist anymore how do you do that though you have to make people accountable and we don't want to seem to do that and then the people you would expect would make them accountable right these are the these checks and balances to get put together to well this is to police that and this is to they're all fucked up right i mean how do you let the banks just you blind you know there's that whole libor scandal where they're just fudging fixing numbers and and they go and they go well we're gonna we're gonna find you 12 billion chase makes 45 billion a year it doesn't fucking matter you know what they did in vietnam was they went and they grabbed all the people that all the bankers and all the all the officials that fucked everybody over with in terms of the banking system and they stuck them life in prison and killed them now you have one extreme to the other, but nonetheless, I mean, what is, what is worse?

[1697] Well, yeah, there, I mean, there's been many bankers that have been caught that are doing things like they're laundering money for drug cartels.

[1698] I mean, that was one of the big ones that was recently exposed, that these guys were laundering money for Mexican drug cartels.

[1699] They just got a big, fat, fine.

[1700] You know, I mean, meanwhile, if it was you, like, if Brian was busted laundering money for drug cartels, you'd be a lot.

[1701] in jail for the rest of your fucking life, 100%.

[1702] They'd take all of his fucking dryers and all his whirlpools.

[1703] They'd get it, because you know he would actually...

[1704] No, no, he would really launder it.

[1705] Come on.

[1706] You know, you know, Brian's like, I can do that.

[1707] He'd have an iron, ironing board.

[1708] I'll turn it to Super.

[1709] I can get more money out of Super.

[1710] Are you trying and say that Brian is a child?

[1711] I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say, man. I just like fucking with him because he's here.

[1712] And he never, every time I've been on your podcast, Brian's off in the corner doing I don't even know I don't want to know why he's right next to you So he can't hide anymore and and last time I saw him it was our buddy Ryan's Oh yeah Or was it at the laugh factory or comedy store or whatever It was at the comedy store but yeah so I'm always like why don't you ever fucking You know me why don't you hang out yeah why don't you come and hang out say something Because he's nervous around you because you're a man I am a man I need you to help me I admit the kind of pheromones that make other men That kind of man I need you to help me with my ground game And my ground game is hopscotch So Oh easily We'll go from that to To fucking rubber band jump rope And we'll do four square after that That's right I got all the kids games down Do you?

[1713] Oh yeah How am I supposed to meet anybody In this terrible world I mean come on online dating You don't online game I go out to the four square courts Online gaming seems like a better way That's when you find the athletes This fucking thing is done Podcasts is over Do you want to do five minutes?

[1714] No, I just listen I just listen to a lot of Just listen to a lot of Jethro Toe Aqualong You know You want to do five minutes Do you ever want to do stand -up comedy?

[1715] I do and here's why It terrifies me Joe And Brian That terrifies me that You're so Raw and exposed up there And I'm not When I go and I fight, I can fight for myself, I can do it all.

[1716] You know, my success is measured upon my end.

[1717] You know, did I get my hand raised or did not get my hand raised?

[1718] When you go out on that stage, people are, okay, make me laugh, fucker.

[1719] You're supposed to be funny, aren't you?

[1720] So, all right, here I am.

[1721] Or they're like this.

[1722] I don't give you shit.

[1723] I'm talking to Brian or having a drink, whatever.

[1724] Some fucking noise off to my left.

[1725] I got to be interesting.

[1726] I got to do something that's going to draw their attention.

[1727] And once I've drawn it, I need to keep it.

[1728] Okay, you got me. What?

[1729] Why should I pay attention?

[1730] And so there's this necessity to be able to get a response for them, which I understand from professional wrestling, because I've been out in the ring, and I listen to the crowd, and I see what works and what doesn't work.

[1731] And so I have an understanding, I feel, and from being around yourself and other, you know, I've, not like I talk about it a lot, but I've hung out with quite a few comedians and, you know, been there backstage for their shows and we're fucking around warming up and doing all this stuff.

[1732] And it's, but I look at it and I go, this is not just cracking jokes and making people laugh.

[1733] And it is okay to bomb because you're going to.

[1734] You're always going to fail.

[1735] But it's just such a raw personal experience to a degree.

[1736] To me, it's just frightening, utterly frightening.

[1737] Yeah, you should definitely do it then.

[1738] Do it tonight.

[1739] It's not that hard.

[1740] No, don't listen to him If you're going to do it, you should plan it out I agree You should definitely think about it And write some stuff down I listen to things that you've said before About being a comedian From documentary stuff And things that I've seen of you And I have A thing in here in my notebook All on my phone Nothing but bits So you've thought about it Oh yeah, no no no I think about it Why don't you do it Go to an open mic night Don't do it at a regular show He's trying to get you to do one of his shows Don't do it To kill Tony Monday.

[1741] Don't do it.

[1742] No, you should go to a regular open mic night, like whether at the comedy store or wherever, you know, just do five minutes or whatever they give.

[1743] What do they give you, three minutes at the store?

[1744] Three minutes?

[1745] Or you can do one minute on Kill Tony and we can help you out.

[1746] Don't do it.

[1747] I don't know about that.

[1748] Don't do it.

[1749] They'll put it on the internet.

[1750] And sometimes, I'll be honest, Joe, the shit that I want to say, probably not good for the rest of what I'm trying to accomplish.

[1751] I disagree I don't know In what way How would it hurt you I just Really dark Weird fucked up shit comes out of my mouth Look like Can you give me an example No No No but you can ask So I did this thing Before MMA roasted Was anything right They wanted to do They wanted to shoot a sizzle Send it off to Spike They wanted to make a show An actual show Where you do a panel And all this stuff so Adam and oh my God why am I forgetting everybody's name right now god damn it T -Rex so T -Rex hits me up and goes come on out come out and do this thing all right what is it okay I'll come sit around and you guys are probably trying to talk shit to me and talk about my past and fuck with me and say steroids and whatever but I don't give a fuck so I come out and they have this green room this green screen thing set up in this deal and Adam does some monitor analog spots, and then he does, he gets to the panel where we talk about whatever's going on in MMA, and then we can, we can fucking step off into any direction we want and have fun.

[1752] And then he'll do a one -on -one where he and whoever the guest is of the week will, we'll sit there and Adam's just basically going to fuck with you the whole time.

[1753] So I come in, I sit down on this panel thing, and they're filming all of this.

[1754] So it's T -Rex is to my left, me, this female comedian who I don't really know, and then and then we just sit there and we start talking and I just start saying shit one the female comedian immediately gets really upset what were you saying?

[1755] T -Rex can't stop laughing neither can add him and then I keep picking on fucking T -Rex the whole time about his clothing line at every point available then we go and we do the the sit down with me and Adam and then I take it from him and then I just start making him laugh and saying really weird shit and completely throwing him for a loop.

[1756] And I just said to him at the end of the day, I go, that was a lot of fun.

[1757] This has never seen the latter day, right?

[1758] No, no, no, no. This is just good.

[1759] Well, what were you saying?

[1760] Nah.

[1761] You don't want to talk about it.

[1762] No. But it was funny.

[1763] I think, well, they thought it was funny at the time.

[1764] I thought it was funny.

[1765] But I've said a lot of fucked up things.

[1766] You can say those things because there's an accepted aspect that you are Joe Rogan, the comedian, you're Joe Rogan who talks about DMT, talks about marijuana and aliens and all kinds of stuff and we accept that and you're you're an established person within the fan base that you have and you're a known commodity for those that are only casual Joe Rogan knowers from news radio no no I'm sorry the fucking the fear factor well that but even before that the radio the sitcom you did news radio news radio yeah fear factor all these are the things where people will We'll see, hey, Joe Rogan, he's a comedian.

[1767] Maybe we've seen some of his stand -up.

[1768] Maybe not.

[1769] But we know him as a personality on television.

[1770] So you know I'm fucking around, whereas with you, they might just think you're a psychopath.

[1771] And I'm an athlete, and I'm supposed to be this and I'm supposed to be that.

[1772] And so if I make off -color jokes that are, it's like, oh, that's too far.

[1773] But what if when you retire from fighting, how many more years do you, how old are you now, 36?

[1774] 37.

[1775] 37.

[1776] How many more years do you think you'll be competing?

[1777] Until I'm done.

[1778] Until I'm done.

[1779] because, like I said before, about that athletic window.

[1780] So, Joe Rogan has, you know, this whole part of his whole career is stand -up, very stand -up, oriented and specific.

[1781] And then, boom, he moves into movies, and then maybe he goes from there into politics.

[1782] I mean, the thing is that you can enter any kind of line you want, but those things are not incumbent on your physicality.

[1783] What they are, it's your mind, it's your ability to you.

[1784] Fighting physicality, anything athletic -wise, you have so.

[1785] long to do it and that's it.

[1786] When that opportunity is passed, you cannot do it anymore.

[1787] Now maybe, you know, you could say, okay, well, Joe went for the U .S. national team for Taekwondo to go to win that and then go win the World Team trials and go to the Olympics.

[1788] Going to the Olympics is a short opportunity in life.

[1789] Once you get past that point to where you can be competitive at that, it doesn't mean you can't do Taekwondo anymore.

[1790] It wouldn't mean that you couldn't do other tournaments, but trying to be the Olympic champion in Taekwondo, it's like, well, that one, that one's gone.

[1791] That opportunity has passed me. For me, for that opportunity for me to be a successful, high -level fighter is gone.

[1792] It's gone.

[1793] It's just, that's it.

[1794] So you will just have to personally assess when you feel like your body's not performing the way you expect it to.

[1795] Exactly.

[1796] But right now you're cool with it.

[1797] Right now I'm cool.

[1798] Right now I know I can do a lot better than my last fight for sure.

[1799] Why did you decide to take so much time off between your last fight and now?

[1800] I wasn't into my last fight.

[1801] To be honest, I didn't care.

[1802] I just, I wasn't up for it.

[1803] I trained, and I got to a point where I'm just like, I'm over this.

[1804] You're over it.

[1805] Who's this guy?

[1806] Who's Travis Brown, really?

[1807] Yeah, well, it's just like, okay, if I beat him, what does that do?

[1808] Well, he's a top five fighter.

[1809] So what?

[1810] Then I get to fight another guy and fight another guy and fight another guy until, well, where am I going with this?

[1811] I'm in the grind.

[1812] I'm trying to, I'm not going to, climb this fucking ladder to prove that I deserve to fight for a title I can fight for a title against anyone in any league anywhere, any time fucking I'm a championship world champion level guy I don't need to prove that I belong here I've fought Travis Brown's all my career they just had a different name at a different point in life they had the same type of skill set they're basically the same guy there'll be another Travis Brown when Travis Brown is done being Travis Brown so what are you trying to say that you the only thing that would get you up is to fight for a title?

[1813] Not necessarily, but just I got to fight when it makes sense to me. I got a fight when I'm motivated to do so.

[1814] I don't, I'm not looking to try and say all right, throw me in there with all these other fucking goofballs and let's just beat each other's heads in until we try to prove that we belong here.

[1815] Does that just signify like the final chapter of your athletic career then?

[1816] Because if, like, a guy like Travis Brown, if you were coming up, you would relish the opportunity to fight a top five guy.

[1817] Sure.

[1818] So is it because you're just very established?

[1819] You've been around a long time.

[1820] I've learned that I don't need to prove myself in that way.

[1821] When I go to, I've been a top 10 fighter for over a decade.

[1822] I've been top five for over a decade most of the time.

[1823] So whether or not someone ranks me wherever they rank me, it doesn't really matter.

[1824] I can step in there and do the job.

[1825] And this next fight might be against Roy, which is fine.

[1826] But if the next fight is we want you to fight Kane or Voodim or whoever, Like, let's go.

[1827] I'm fucking ready to do it.

[1828] But did you feel that when you fought Frank Meir?

[1829] Yes.

[1830] When I fought Frank Meir, I was fucking pumped because, for one, I've been told, oh, that I'd heard all these people.

[1831] We think it's going to be, they're going to be such a tough fight.

[1832] And Frank Mears, he's the best submission guy.

[1833] Or back when I was in the UFC, and Frank was just coming up, they're like, oh, this guy's the future, he's the best, he's going to be the greatest, and always hearing all this stuff about how Frank Meir is my equal or better.

[1834] and I'm just like this shit is over with this is not I'm going to show you the difference between us between him and me so you were excited about him that was a very important fight for you Travis Brown wasn't didn't care wow that's kind of crazy yeah that's weird but I guess that's a personal thing right your own personal motivation like the only person who could decide what fights you're up for and what fights you're not are you that's true would you be up for a rematch like they offered you a rematch with Travis but here's the difference If I fight Travis now, I'm going to want to fucking take his head off because he disrespected me in the ring after the match.

[1835] He did all this fucking shit and all.

[1836] It's like, what did he do?

[1837] What did he fucking cut his throat.

[1838] He did all the stuff.

[1839] But don't you do that too?

[1840] You do that all the time after you win.

[1841] That's my thing.

[1842] He did it to mock me for winning.

[1843] And I'm just like, dude, I've been nice to you and respectful to you from day one.

[1844] And then you go ahead and you go and you get a win on me. Great.

[1845] This is your moment to say what you want to say.

[1846] And what you want to do is to try and fucking put me down.

[1847] After you win.

[1848] So you feel like by him doing the thumb across the neck thing.

[1849] Yeah, and apparently he was very dismissive of me in interviews and all this shit.

[1850] And I'm like, wow, that's cool.

[1851] Pre or post fight.

[1852] Post.

[1853] All post.

[1854] Everything is post.

[1855] Everything was post.

[1856] And I didn't find out about this shit until way after the fact.

[1857] I actually saw him backstage and come up and shook his hand and said, all right, you know, hey, this was your night.

[1858] Me, I don't have any reason to be a fucking prick, especially after I win.

[1859] But you know what?

[1860] A guy wins.

[1861] He feels like he's on top of the world.

[1862] you know what that's when you're going to say some shit like that that's when you're going to act out and then fuck i'm just like all right cool if that's the way it's going to be awesome if we rematch it's not going to be the same dude you fought that night you have no idea you really don't get it you you will get your ass handed to you because now you made you gave me a reason to want to kick your ass and what would be the difference between the way you would perform in this fight the way you performed the first fight look for for one i would make him pay for all of the big mistakes he makes all the time like what big mistakes he's constantly whiffing throwing the biggest shots that kid has no stamina because he will always go for the kill and everything he does now that makes him very dangerous to a heavyweight especially because he's athletic and he's got some power but that's why verdum took him out because he's missing with all this big shit and he's getting picked apart and picked apart and picked apart and hung on and hung on and grabbed and separated and picked apart I mean why is verdum beating you on the feet.

[1863] Well, he broke his hand early in the first round, too.

[1864] That's one of the reasons why.

[1865] Yeah, well, it's also because he's trying to swing for the fences constantly.

[1866] Yeah.

[1867] That's why he's gassed in every one of his big fights.

[1868] Any fight that's got any kind of distance to it, he's gassed.

[1869] Why?

[1870] Because that's the type of fighter he is.

[1871] Does that make him a bad fighter?

[1872] Not necessarily.

[1873] I would say it doesn't.

[1874] It's just that's who he is.

[1875] He's a fucking wild man. But that's also why I think he will never be a UFC champion.

[1876] because there's a finesse that he doesn't possess.

[1877] But don't you think that's something you can learn?

[1878] I mean, he's a guy who's still sort of evolving as a fighter.

[1879] Has he?

[1880] Well, he came into MMA fairly late.

[1881] He was a basketball player.

[1882] Well, I mean, time will tell.

[1883] It's up to him, really.

[1884] You've got a personal thing with him.

[1885] Well, but here, I'm being objective.

[1886] And that is, it's up to him.

[1887] If he wants to make those decisions, if he wants to change his game, if he wants to add different aspects to it, I mean, all fighters are the true or architects of their own design the coaches can help Edmund can help him in one way and show him how to strike under these concepts or maybe show the same things that he's been taught at Jackson's or someplace else but set in a different way so that it becomes more clear to him and I think Edmund is a good striking coach I've seen him work with Rhonda I've seen him work with some of the girls and uh before and i i like what he has to teach i also don't believe that at greggs that there wasn't that there was any lack of striking quality striking training or i'm not going to say that edmund's striking training is going to be better than whatever was it was jackson's i'm going to say it's different i'm sure and i know it's good but i i'm pretty sure that jacks was good too and to make that change i mean only he knows specifically why he decided to change camps but in my opinion it's not it's not about being here or there it's about what he does to affect his game it's what what changes he decides to make in his own head the way he approaches his training and how he tries to take what he's learning and apply it to what he does already and apply it in different ways you know that's what it comes down to i think edmund has given him more individualized attention and really focusing on him as an athlete because he only has a small stable of fighters?

[1888] Maybe.

[1889] But in the end, coaches lay the foundation.

[1890] They point you in the right direction.

[1891] But athletes take that information and they make the most of it.

[1892] How much time in a day can you spend with that coach?

[1893] Only so much.

[1894] It's the time that you're not spending with them that really makes a big difference.

[1895] How do you take what they gave you?

[1896] How are you working on that when you're not in the gym?

[1897] How are you thinking about it?

[1898] How are you breaking down your strengths and your weaknesses and dealing with those?

[1899] How are you then coming back to the gym with that knowledge and then training the next day?

[1900] How are you setting your mind for training that day?

[1901] You know, you could have the worst day in the world, but if your jab got better, so what?

[1902] Right.

[1903] It's a success.

[1904] Does it bug you that fight?

[1905] Like, if you, you know, you look back in the fact that you didn't get up for it and you had that result?

[1906] Yes.

[1907] Of course it bugs me. And just as Travis is bugged from losing his fight versus Verdum, because he had an opportunity to fight for the title after that, I'm sure, is the way he sought, and he lost his opportunity.

[1908] He may feel it was his hand or, you know, when he got kicked in the rib or whatever.

[1909] It doesn't really matter what it was.

[1910] We lost.

[1911] We lost in these moments.

[1912] And as a fighter, you always should.

[1913] That's something that I know when I don't care.

[1914] if I lost or not, that's when I should stop fighting.

[1915] I cared.

[1916] I cared that I lost.

[1917] I cared a lot more when I got disrespected over it, which I felt was completely, you know, unnecessary.

[1918] That just sucked.

[1919] That was like, wow, wow, why?

[1920] Why did you have to do that?

[1921] So if you got, you can't, you have a hard time getting up for Travis.

[1922] Why do you not have a hard time getting up for Roy Nelson?

[1923] Because, for one, I've had some time to just do other stuff and get that fire wanting to get back in the ring.

[1924] Two, I'm not looking at, I'm looking at fighting Roy as fighting Roy.

[1925] I'm not looking at fighting Roy as I'm fighting Roy so that I can prove that I can fight Joe Smithnecks so that I can fight whoever and then get a title shot.

[1926] I'm not doing that.

[1927] I'm fighting Roy because I'm fighting Roy.

[1928] Me and Roy are going to fight.

[1929] So you have a just different mindset than you had before the Travis fight?

[1930] Absolutely.

[1931] And with Roy, he's been around a very long time himself and so i've heard things here and there you know roy one time was on a big uh rant online on twitter about people being ranked over him and why why is that so he's he's arguing with all these ma journalists and then he starts adding my name into it like literally putting my handle and i'm just like why do you give a fuck about and my only response was you know finding us talk about how he thinks he's better than me or whatever who cares my only response was who gives a shit with other people think about you.

[1932] Why are you even including me in this?

[1933] It doesn't matter.

[1934] With anything, he's just trying to drum up a fight?

[1935] Whatever, it doesn't matter.

[1936] I mean, looks at the list of potential opponents, feels he matches up well with you, throw your name into the mix, use your at Josh L. Barnett.

[1937] And you know, at the time, I don't even think I was in the UFC, so it's not like we could have fought anyways.

[1938] Well, he probably knew you were coming over from Strike Force, right?

[1939] Who knows?

[1940] Everybody thought you were coming over if you'd work out the deal.

[1941] I mean, you were always a top -level guy.

[1942] Right.

[1943] And someone that a lot of different fighters wanted to have as a potential, you're a high name, you know, high marquee name.

[1944] It wasn't that long ago that anybody ever started actually calling me out.

[1945] Like most of my career, no one's ever said I want to fight that guy.

[1946] So what do you attribute it to?

[1947] Oh, I'm older.

[1948] I had a bad loss, my last match.

[1949] You know, maybe they think that they see it's more worthwhile to do that.

[1950] But even guys that had gotten wins over me went through fucking hell to do it.

[1951] So they're just like, yeah, it doesn't sense.

[1952] I don't blame them.

[1953] I mean, I don't, if I see a guy, if I have a fighter and I can avoid having a fight that's winnable, but it's going to be fucking really tough, I would try not to make that fight happen.

[1954] I would try to get him a fight where it may be a more dangerous fight, but much more skews in the way of once you get going, you can put him away, but you got to watch out because this guy can put you away versus this guy's going to make you fight.

[1955] and scratch and claw for every inch of every second of this fucking match, whether he's winning or he's losing.

[1956] He'll just never fucking quit.

[1957] And that's you.

[1958] Yeah.

[1959] And that's you.

[1960] I break my hand in 23 seconds fighting Cormier, and I still hit him with it.

[1961] You know what I mean?

[1962] And this is the type of fight that you think would be that kind of dog fight, you and Roy.

[1963] Yeah.

[1964] Well, he's hard to put away.

[1965] He is hard to put away.

[1966] I'm a finisher.

[1967] Jesus Christ, his fight with Alistair over him was crazy to watch.

[1968] I didn't see it.

[1969] Yeah, but I heard this.

[1970] Kicks to the body.

[1971] Swak!

[1972] Swak!

[1973] You know, Alster was just laying into him.

[1974] He head kicked him.

[1975] He kicked the shit out of his legs, and Roy just keeps coming forward.

[1976] Alster says it was like the Incredible Hulk.

[1977] He got anger and angered and you see his eyes get crazy.

[1978] He's a wild motherfucker, Roy.

[1979] Yeah.

[1980] Hard to believe that he didn't even start striking training until 2009.

[1981] That's when he started striking training.

[1982] That's not true.

[1983] That's what he said.

[1984] Boy, he had a kung fu background, too.

[1985] did he really yes I mean but what is that I look he knew about throwing a punch like this I saw him overhand right a guy and knock him out in Costa Rica really oh yeah Costa Rica yep you guys drunk what's going on what happened well we were hired to go down there to provide protection for somebody I'm just kidding oh what was it was going oh bo dog dog and he was fighting oh 2000 seven, eight.

[1986] Bowdog was a fucking interesting little scenario, wasn't it?

[1987] It was, I actually really liked watching it because their production in terms of setting up each individual fight, oh by the way, which is funny because my buddy, Clint Dahl, did this thing called Venom way back in the day, and MMA was not legal in California, so what they did is they rented out of Soundstage?

[1988] I was there.

[1989] You were at Venom?

[1990] I was at Venom.

[1991] So you remember Venom.

[1992] Yeah.

[1993] Tell, it's explain.

[1994] the whole thing.

[1995] So it's the soundstage, and so he hires John Sally and Stephen Quadros to be the announcers.

[1996] He's got all these fights set up that they're all going to film in one or two days, and then they're going to prepackage it to go sell it elsewhere.

[1997] He set up roving cams, hard cams.

[1998] He set up all this stuff.

[1999] He had all these people just show up as extras to just stand around, which I guess you were there hanging out too.

[2000] They ordered pizzas for people to eat at one point and they called this thing a production, you know, in terms of...

[2001] It's a film.

[2002] Yeah, it's a film.

[2003] It's a movie.

[2004] Yep.

[2005] So they had these people fight pretending that it was like acting.

[2006] Yeah.

[2007] Meanwhile, they were fighting.

[2008] For real.

[2009] Yeah, but they just had it...

[2010] Well, it's acting.

[2011] They're sparring as actors or something.

[2012] Yeah.

[2013] They tried some wacky loophole.

[2014] And it worked.

[2015] And so...

[2016] Didn't they get in trouble, though?

[2017] I don't think so.

[2018] It's just that it never went anywhere.

[2019] To my understanding, Sally was supposed to get it to the Fox people and I don't know what happened there and never took off either way one a lot of people got their start there and nobody even knows it and two uh what they did is the way they filmed all the fighters they had all of their bios these backstories they had Mike uh what's his face Mike seal from New Mexico who was a bank robber in Mexico and he got in trouble for that and came I mean so there's all these stories about these guys And so how Bodog got a whole, they used the same format partially because one of the dudes that was producing Bo Dog had Venom from way back in the day and basically just took the whole concept of how they would produce it and used it for Bodog.

[2020] Bo Dog, they would put on fights on the beach in Costa Rica with all these hot chicks around.

[2021] Best Ring Girls just about ever.

[2022] Oh my God, it was amazing.

[2023] Was that pay -per -view?

[2024] I can't remember.

[2025] I remember watching.

[2026] It was on TV.

[2027] They were on TV.

[2028] It was on TV.

[2029] So they shot it as a TV program.

[2030] product.

[2031] They would shoot all these fights over four days, and then they would chop it up into TV episodes.

[2032] And it looked really fucking cool.

[2033] Did they just run out of money?

[2034] They basically, there was a lot of people involved in Bodog that were basically just robbing the coffers while the King sleeps.

[2035] They were just running it dry, thinking it was just going to be a failure who just get all you can while you can and just fuck it over.

[2036] And they did.

[2037] They used to do those billboards.

[2038] Calvin Iyer presents Bodog.

[2039] So it would be him.

[2040] Dog fights on a throne.

[2041] It'd be him with like a beautiful suit on his face.

[2042] Like nobody's buying the fights to look at you.

[2043] He didn't make any sense.

[2044] It was such a vanity project.

[2045] Yeah, it was definitely retarded in that way.

[2046] But Roy was down there.

[2047] He fought Mario Rinaldi, knocked him out with an overhand right.

[2048] Well, he always could punch.

[2049] I just don't think he was training it.

[2050] Well, according to him.

[2051] I don't buy that.

[2052] He also used to weigh like 220, 215.

[2053] And he beat Frank Meir and a grapple.

[2054] happening contest remember that yeah what did it what happened with him he mirror was all over him like fucking white on rice got tired got tired and then roy just outscored him but what happened why did what what did roy do that made him gain all that way and keep it on while he's getting in shape that's what i don't think it's not what he did it's what he never stopped doing you know i don't i just don't know how you could be in good enough shape we can go three hard five minute rounds and not lose that gut.

[2055] I don't know.

[2056] You got to fuel that gut.

[2057] That god has got to be, he's working on that thing.

[2058] Maybe there's a little tapeworms in there.

[2059] Fusion engine inside that.

[2060] It just keeps them going.

[2061] Well, there's a lot of padding.

[2062] I'll tell you that.

[2063] He ate those fucking Alistair ovary and body kicks.

[2064] I don't even think that padding can make that big.

[2065] That's just being strong and tough as shit.

[2066] Yeah.

[2067] Well, that would be a good fight, man. I would like to see that fight.

[2068] I think so, too.

[2069] I think it'll be entertaining.

[2070] If it'll actually happen yet.

[2071] I think it will, but yeah, we'll have to see once we have paperwork and we have wet ink.

[2072] Wet ink.

[2073] Wet works.

[2074] All right, we've got to get the fuck out of here.

[2075] Josh L. Barnett on Twitter.

[2076] Anything else you want to tell the fine people about before we get the fuck about this bitch?

[2077] Check me out on Axis.

[2078] Are you still doing your podcast?

[2079] No. I am not.

[2080] Couldn't do it the way I wanted to do it.

[2081] So I said if that's not capable, then I'm just not going to do it.

[2082] Let's just do it on your own.

[2083] do it the way you want to do it's a lot of fucking work dude you should know listen man this is all you need get a phone start talking into it talk shit uploaded online called the josh barnett podcast take it from there yeah i i you know i did some good things on it but uh it wasn't there was a lot of stuff that that just wasn't allowing it to really be what it could be all things in their own time my friend all things in their own time josh l barnett motherfuckers uh watch him metamorris It'll be May 9th.

[2084] May 9th.

[2085] Really interesting.

[2086] Again, Cyborg.

[2087] How do you say his last name?

[2088] Abreu?

[2089] I've only seen it written.

[2090] I've never actually said it.

[2091] I've heard it.

[2092] Either way.

[2093] He's an amazing jiu -jitsu fighter.

[2094] It would be a fantastic match.

[2095] Josh Barnett, ladies and gentlemen, anything going on?

[2096] You got?

[2097] 420.

[2098] Vancouver just went on sale today.

[2099] And Secret Show next week with Tom Zaguerre, Christina Pizzi and Steve Agee and a bunch of people at the comedy store.

[2100] And you've got something in San Francisco and Sacramento coming up.

[2101] San Francisco, Sacramento, or May. All these tickets.

[2102] Is it called sticky, icky, or purple nurple?

[2103] Nah.

[2104] It's called suck it, bitch.

[2105] But we're going to be at the punchline, me and Tony.

[2106] Oh, and I am at the Ka Theater at Mandalay Bay, or at the MGM, rather.

[2107] That is, is that May?

[2108] When the fuck is that?

[2109] Yes, it is.

[2110] It's May 20 shit.

[2111] What date is that?

[2112] May 22nd.

[2113] May 22nd.

[2114] May 22nd.

[2115] It's my anniversary.

[2116] Tom Segura, May 22nd, MGM, the Ka Theater with Tom Segura and Tony Hinchcliffe.

[2117] Hala!

[2118] All right, my friends, that's it for this week.

[2119] See you soon.

[2120] Bye -bye, big kiss.