Armchair Anonymous: Ghosts

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[3] Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous.

[4] This episode is about the spookiest encounter with a ghost.

[5] Yeah, we wanted it to be Halloween themed as Halloween is Monday.

[6] Just in time.

[7] Spooky.

[8] Which one did you get most spooked by?

[9] The old house?

[10] The hotel.

[11] Oh, the hotel.

[12] Yeah, that was the most spooky.

[13] But you're, you're not a believer.

[14] And either am I. I. I'm a zero out of ten.

[15] Yeah.

[16] And I'm a five.

[17] I really think I could go either way.

[18] Right.

[19] Which is great.

[20] I'm envious.

[21] But even if it doesn't, I still get spooked.

[22] Even if it's not really, I get spooked.

[23] You get, you convince yourself like Liz is coming out of the TV.

[24] Oh, yeah.

[25] That's something I was.

[26] want to clarify because now there's a liz in our life liz plank and when we say scary liz or like liz popped out or you're scared of liz or you hate liz we're talking about date line episode where there was a very scary woman named liz very scary and you thought that liz might be outside the window outside the window then back at your apartment and then also frank's dog because maybe liz had a dog in the date line episode and it was did appear to be frank yeah but what's connected at all and put it lives in the same universe as you that's right okay so yes that's a great thing to know because we reference liz a lot and she's for monica apex scary yeah okay happy Halloween enjoy scary stories it's spooktacular's overplayed isn't it's fine it's okay it's fine we can make it yours is a spooktacular episode oh this is we're dying don't listen to if you're afraid goes happy happy happy following.

[27] Oh, times.

[28] Come and go.

[29] Take them slow.

[30] I'm excited to hear some ghost stories.

[31] You know David has a ghost.

[32] Oh, he does.

[33] He's a ghost right now.

[34] The ghost comes at 3 a .m. every morning.

[35] He wakes.

[36] Sneaks little kisses on his forehead.

[37] No. Now he says, do you want to talk?

[38] Oh.

[39] Okay, will you leave?

[40] He had a lady come.

[41] And he said, she said, yeah.

[42] There's a man who comes in.

[43] He wears a Tweed jacket.

[44] Are we losing them?

[45] Is his mind going?

[46] It's real.

[47] All right.

[48] Here's Kyle.

[49] Get a little bit closer with Kyle Extra Dry.

[50] Hi.

[51] How are you?

[52] Hi.

[53] Wonderful.

[54] Kyle, are we using your real name?

[55] Yes.

[56] Oh, perfect.

[57] Kyle, you've had a spooky encounter.

[58] Yeah, definitely.

[59] So the house that I grew up in super old house from late 1880s, early 1890s.

[60] It's in Victoria.

[61] It's in Vic West.

[62] So in the late 80s, early 90s, my grandparents renovated the house.

[63] They actually lifted.

[64] The original house became the top floor.

[65] But the house is so old that it was actually built on tree stumps.

[66] Oh, no kidding.

[67] As footings?

[68] Yeah.

[69] How cool.

[70] My grandfather found a whole bunch of old coins and like tools and stuff I got under the house.

[71] So it was a pretty cool area, but very old.

[72] So Vic West actually dates back to the Hudson Bay Company.

[73] So when they came on to Vancouver Island, that was the area that they took over.

[74] And that was where they had the railroad and a lot of their factories and everything else like that.

[75] Wow.

[76] Okay.

[77] So you grew up in it.

[78] And when did the paranormal activity begin?

[79] Scared.

[80] So my sisters are older than me. They're about five and six years older than me. They remember it from basically when they started remembering things.

[81] Four is when I remember the first time.

[82] And you would always hear things moving upstairs.

[83] You would hear whispers.

[84] You would hear some voices, things like that.

[85] But when I was about six, I was in the upstairs bathroom, which was right beside my bedroom.

[86] We were about 20 -ish feet off the ground.

[87] And there was a bathroom window, nothing between me and our next door.

[88] And a hand just comes through the window.

[89] And I'd lose it.

[90] And I'm trying to get into the bathroom.

[91] I can't handle what even turn.

[92] And so I'm screaming my head off as a little kid.

[93] My grandfather burst the door in and gets me out of the bathroom.

[94] How the original house was kind of laid out, what became my mom's room and my sister's room was the original kitchen living main part of the house.

[95] And so when we would look down the hall from, say, that bathroom, you would see the end of the hall on one side is my mom's master bedroom, on the other side is my sister's room.

[96] and you would constantly see just a figure standing in between those two rooms right at the end of the hall.

[97] And that was kind of a common thing.

[98] Can I ask really quick what the consistency of the aberration is?

[99] Like when you saw a hand come through the window, like my own hand, or is it opaque?

[100] Is it faint?

[101] Is it like a movie?

[102] I actually remember it quite vividly.

[103] It was very long, bony, but not like skeleton.

[104] It wasn't like translucent or anything, but it was weird looking.

[105] But you didn't get the sense that you could.

[106] have dropped an object and it would have passed through it.

[107] It seemed fully solid.

[108] Yeah, it was weird and terrifying.

[109] So then we're seeing this more or more.

[110] We're telling our mom, our mom was like, you guys are making it all up.

[111] There's nothing.

[112] Throughout the years, we would see this man standing at the top of her stairs.

[113] So when you'd come from our downstairs, it'd go straight up the stairs and the stairs were really steep because renovated old house.

[114] He would always be at the top with the stairs.

[115] Well, to get upstairs, you would have to go past them.

[116] I would sleep downstairs often if I saw them at the top of the stairs.

[117] I'd be like, all right, I'm sleeping on the couch.

[118] Did you ever say like, Mom, come look.

[119] Hello.

[120] Do you see?

[121] And then she doesn't see it.

[122] Well, she would.

[123] But she would always deny ever seeing it.

[124] You didn't want to escalate the situation.

[125] Exactly.

[126] And so throughout the years, you would hear louder walking and talking.

[127] Doors would open and close.

[128] drawers would open and close, things would get tipped over, and it seemed to really escalate after the original renovation happened.

[129] And so there's a local historian in Victoria that does ghost tours.

[130] He's dug up a lot of the history of Victoria.

[131] So over the years, we've talked to this guy, and he was like, when you disturb things, they don't like it.

[132] We would start hearing other voices, what sounded like children, who would hear like female voices.

[133] So clearly it was a family that was in there and then fast forward to when my mom finally stopped gaslighting you there's way more gas lighting than just that but yes so the original house had this massive bay window when my grandparents run over to the house they matched the bay window to the downstairs and the original fireplace went all the way up through it and so when I would have been about 15 as coming home from a soccer practice.

[134] And it was, I don't know, late November, about 8 o 'clock at night, kind of a rainy night, and the guy standing in my mom's bay window looking out at the street.

[135] And I see it, and I look at her and her face is white.

[136] And I'm like, you see him, don't you?

[137] And she's like, I don't know what you're talking about.

[138] I'm like, let's go inside.

[139] She's like, I think I'm going to go over to your aunt's house tonight.

[140] She stayed with my aunt for a couple of nights backing up a little bit.

[141] We have a little brother who's eight years younger than I am.

[142] There was one night where my sister, myself, our little brother at the house.

[143] It's just us.

[144] And he comes screaming downstairs.

[145] And he's like, something just grabbed me. Something grabbed me. And we went upstairs and sure enough, we see the guys like standing upstairs.

[146] And my brother would not go back into the house until our mom got home.

[147] So we actually stood outside of our house for about four hours because our little brother wouldn't go back inside.

[148] At any point does it get ho -hum?

[149] Like I imagine, of course, initially you're panicked and maybe even years of panic.

[150] But then at some point you go, well, none of us have actually been physically hurt by these things.

[151] I'm now kind of warming to the notion that they're here.

[152] Also, are you trying to figure out what the rules of this thing are?

[153] Like, can they hurt us?

[154] Are they incapable of that?

[155] Where's your evolution on them being there?

[156] After the first few times of seeing them and kind of being freaked out by them, it got to the point where we're like, okay, well, we're just going to live with these guys.

[157] We would have friends come over there, like, what the hell was that?

[158] And we're like, it's the ghost.

[159] It's the family who lives here.

[160] You know, we learned to live with it and almost like ignored in a sense.

[161] We never really felt like we were going to be harmed until my now wife, we were dating at the time, first time that she ever stayed over in our house.

[162] I was dead asleep in our bed.

[163] Nobody else was in the house.

[164] And at about two o 'clock in the morning, she gets woken up by a voice coming from the hallway saying, Anna, saying her name over and over again.

[165] And she freaked out and she never went back to the house.

[166] That was the first time that she slept there and the last time.

[167] Her name is Anna.

[168] It wasn't a previous lover of yours.

[169] No, it's Anna.

[170] Okay.

[171] And you didn't hear it though because you were asleep.

[172] Yeah, I was dead asleep.

[173] At first she thought that I was screwing with her.

[174] Then she realized, no, he's asleep and nobody else is in this house.

[175] Who owns the home now?

[176] So my mom sold it in 2005.

[177] And then the family that bought it lasted six months.

[178] And since 2005, it's sold five more times.

[179] Wow.

[180] Now, if this were in the States, people would have ended up in court.

[181] Like, is this something you have to disclaim on a real estate form?

[182] Like, we have mold.

[183] We have ghosts.

[184] Here, or I don't know if it's just California, you do have to disclose if someone's died in the house.

[185] Right.

[186] It's like that up in Canada as well.

[187] But going back and looking at the history, there isn't anything definitive that we can find.

[188] I can go back to like 1888 and find who we believe are the first people to have lived there.

[189] But there's also some other history that the house might be older than what we think it is because we've found before the street actually had addresses that there were two houses that were called cottages.

[190] We were always under the impression is that we were the second original house on the street.

[191] The history might actually date back even further than what we can actually find.

[192] Did you ever try to record any of this so you could?

[193] Show it to other people.

[194] We did, but recording in the 90s and early 2000s wasn't very good.

[195] It is crazy that so many people acknowledge this family, this ghost.

[196] Yeah, so I'm in a unique position, which is I believe your story and I don't believe in ghosts.

[197] Yeah, this episode's interesting because Doc does not believe in ghosts.

[198] I do not.

[199] But like what would you say about all these people having experiences in that house?

[200] Well, I would say the house is making noises, that's for sure.

[201] What about what they're seeing?

[202] Oh, the visual stuff?

[203] I don't know.

[204] That's why I wouldn't try to challenge it.

[205] I told you, I worked with all these Filipinos in Detroit, almost all Filipinos, all the ones I've met, they all believe in ghosts.

[206] And most of them have really incredible ghost stories from the Philippines.

[207] And these stories were outrageous, hitting a ghost.

[208] The blood is dripping down the windshield instead of up the windshield, even then they're going 90 miles an hour.

[209] Like, that's the experience they had on planet Earth.

[210] Yet I don't believe in ghosts.

[211] The thing with Victoria BC is there's an insane amount of history surrounding.

[212] paranormal and ghosts because Victoria was a port town during the gold rush.

[213] It's a crazy old history up here and who knows what's going on.

[214] So what are your takeaways?

[215] Do you think you're going to encounter other ghosts going forward?

[216] Have you ever?

[217] Do you have an explanation of how one turns into a ghost that doesn't go to wherever we're supposed to go?

[218] Since moving out of that house, I haven't experienced anything else.

[219] You know, the house that I'm in now, it's all a brand new development.

[220] So what causes it, I have no idea of what traps them in there.

[221] My grandparents passed away four years ago.

[222] I'd like to think that they're at their house that they lived in and built themselves, but who knows?

[223] Because you've witnessed something that by all accounts can't happen, you find that you're more willing to believe some crazy shit because you've witnessed some.

[224] Oh, definitely.

[225] I think I'd be more like you, Dax, if I'd never experienced something like this where I'd be like, you know, goes whatever, living through it.

[226] I'm like, give it to me, I'm going to believe it.

[227] I've dealt with it.

[228] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[229] Yeah.

[230] And I respect it.

[231] I honor it.

[232] I'm not trying to poke any holes in it.

[233] It is a curious thing.

[234] Well, that was an incredible story, Kyle.

[235] Your family lived with another family.

[236] Yeah, I also just think it could be like one of these weird gifts.

[237] You know, when you're in a dicey situation, you're like, whatever, I live with ghosts for 18 years.

[238] I made it through that.

[239] I could also see it be weird, oddly empowering.

[240] That's like probably the most normal part of my childhood growing up.

[241] With the ghost.

[242] Yeah, exactly.

[243] Oh, that's good.

[244] Well, Kyle, thanks so much for sharing that story with us on our Spoo.

[245] spooky Halloween episode.

[246] We really appreciate it.

[247] Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Take care of you guys.

[248] All right.

[249] Take care.

[250] Here comes Alyssa.

[251] Hi.

[252] Hi, you're in the closet.

[253] You follow the rules.

[254] I love you.

[255] Rule follower over here.

[256] For sure.

[257] Hi, Alyssa.

[258] Nice to meet you.

[259] You too.

[260] Where are you at other than a closet?

[261] I was going to say my teenager's closet.

[262] New Hampshire.

[263] You are too young to have a teenager.

[264] Stepdaughter.

[265] So yes, I am.

[266] Okay, that makes sense.

[267] You had a spooky encounter with, with the supernatural?

[268] Mostly my daughter.

[269] Not the stepdaughter.

[270] But yes, we've all been witnessing it for sure.

[271] It's happening currently.

[272] Oh, my God.

[273] What if it, no, now I'm scared.

[274] What if it appears?

[275] Please be a guest on armchair.

[276] Set the scene for us.

[277] Where does this happen?

[278] My daughter was about a year and a half old.

[279] This was about a year ago.

[280] So my stepdaughter is 13.

[281] And we're sitting in our kitchen and my daughter points up to the ceiling, like in the corner and says, Carol.

[282] We thought, okay, she's one and a half.

[283] Maybe she's trying to tell us a word she doesn't know.

[284] There's like a sign up there.

[285] We don't know if she's trying to point to the sign.

[286] It doesn't know the word.

[287] She wants carrots, maybe.

[288] The sign kind of looks like a car.

[289] We don't know.

[290] So she keeps saying it.

[291] Same spot, multiple different days in a row.

[292] So then we start making a joke that we have a ghost named Carol.

[293] Anytime my toddler gets like the toddler zoomies, you know, like they're just like random words or sprinting around.

[294] We started joking that Carol was.

[295] Possessing her.

[296] Okay.

[297] Not playing with her, possessing her.

[298] Right.

[299] Mm -hmm.

[300] And we made this joke, and it went on and on.

[301] And then all of a sudden I thought, my grandfather's name is Carol.

[302] No. Interesting name, first of all, for Grandpa.

[303] You don't mean a lot of Grandpa's name Carol.

[304] You don't, and he was Carol, and he was married to Caroline.

[305] Oh, that's perfect.

[306] He was the first grandparent that I lost, and I lost him late.

[307] I was in college.

[308] So I was very close with him.

[309] I knew him very well.

[310] but all of the major milestones in my life, he missed graduating college, graduating grad school, getting married, having kids.

[311] He missed all that stuff.

[312] So I was like, hmm, that would be kind of cool if Granby was hanging around my house.

[313] Yeah, I would love it if Papa Bob was around.

[314] You guys.

[315] Nothing would make me happier.

[316] No, no, no, no. Papa Bob, if you're out there, leave me ding -dongs on the counter.

[317] That's how I'll know.

[318] Can they pick stuff up?

[319] We haven't experienced that.

[320] Okay, okay.

[321] So I show her a picture of my grandfather.

[322] just to like see what happened.

[323] And so far nothing.

[324] She was a year and a half old.

[325] She kind of just looked at me like, why are you showing me this picture?

[326] I don't even know what pictures are.

[327] Some time goes by and we kind of forget about the joke and we go to my parents' house.

[328] Now, Grampy is my dad's dad.

[329] He was very handy.

[330] He could fix anything.

[331] He could build anything.

[332] My dad is the same way.

[333] So we show up at my parents' house and my dad's building some stairs into the neighbor's yard so they can like party safely.

[334] going back and forth from each other's yards.

[335] I love him.

[336] He's like getting frustrated because the measurements weren't working out.

[337] And he looks at himself and he goes, idiot, it's this, not that.

[338] And he realized he made a calculation error.

[339] He starts laughing at himself and my daughter looks up in the sky and points and goes, Hey, Carol.

[340] We're at a second location and Grampi is somewhere in the atmosphere.

[341] Yep.

[342] And so I said, hey, dad, Grampi's laughing at you because you messed up those calculations.

[343] He's a little weirded out.

[344] and I had mentioned it to them before, and they're like, okay, no big deal.

[345] Later that day, we go to my grandmother's house, Carol's wife, Caroline.

[346] And we're telling her about this encounter.

[347] And my dad goes into her bedroom and says, hey, Charlie, come here.

[348] She walks in.

[349] He says, who's that?

[350] And there's this big picture of my grandfather on the wall.

[351] And she goes, oh, that's Carol.

[352] You got Monica shook.

[353] And no one told her.

[354] We didn't.

[355] That was my concern, too.

[356] And I had showed her the picture before and nothing, but we don't often bring this up.

[357] She had said, oh, look, hi, Carol earlier that day.

[358] So I was like, okay, maybe it's a coincidence.

[359] But everybody witnessed it.

[360] My mom, my dad, my grammy.

[361] So pretty sure it's grampy.

[362] Maybe a couple more months pass, and she's in the tub.

[363] And when I slept over, my grandparents' house, my favorite thing to do would be to take a bath because they'd put all of the pots and pans in the bathtub to play with because they didn't have bath toys.

[364] And so that's like a very vivid memory for me. And she's sitting in the bathtub and all of a sudden she looks at the wall and goes, Carol, get out of there.

[365] And that's basically where we've left it, except that today, because I knew I was going to talk with you.

[366] She was painting a Halloween craft.

[367] And I said, hey, have you talked to Carol lately?

[368] And same spot in the room.

[369] She goes, oh yeah, he's right there.

[370] I go, does he visit you?

[371] She goes, yeah.

[372] I said, where?

[373] She goes, here at my house and at Mimi's house.

[374] Wow.

[375] So he's bouncing around between his ex -wife and his now new adorable grandchild.

[376] And then occasionally his son, when he's fucking up and measuring once, cutting twice.

[377] My husband actually thought about this.

[378] We think that when we sold my grandmother's house, we went through his basement and everyone got like free reign of all the tools that he had.

[379] And so my husband was like, maybe he came over with the tools.

[380] That was how he got here.

[381] and then my dad has some of the tools and that's why he's there too sometimes.

[382] I need info on the rules of the ghosts.

[383] It's very curious, the rules of ghosts.

[384] Do they have to be invited in?

[385] Obviously not.

[386] I feel like he just was like, hey, I'm here.

[387] I wanted you to know I didn't miss all these things.

[388] That's how I take it anyway.

[389] I will say to support your husband's theory about the tools, if I die and become a ghost, I'm embarrassed to tell you that I'll probably go see where my cars are more often than my family.

[390] I'd be like, where is my Lincoln?

[391] Who's driving the Lincoln?

[392] How are they treating it?

[393] What happened in my truck?

[394] Do you have an attachment to these things?

[395] I think my husband would be the same way, too.

[396] Yeah.

[397] And if I cross past with the children and route to see the cars, all the better bonus.

[398] You would definitely not.

[399] You would definitely do exactly what that grandee did.

[400] I know I'd want to meet their kids would be so fun.

[401] Yeah.

[402] Yeah.

[403] Well, this is a sweet ghost story.

[404] Yeah, and on my dad's side, there's only me and my sister.

[405] So there's not like a plethora of grandkids that he could go visit.

[406] There's just the two of us.

[407] He doesn't have to spread himself thin.

[408] Right.

[409] But again, we don't know the rules of ghosts at all.

[410] I mean, there's nothing to suggest they couldn't be at all three locations at once, right?

[411] We're already dealing with something that's completely outside of our known understanding of physics and life and death.

[412] Exactly.

[413] They could have like pieces of them all over.

[414] Yeah.

[415] Or they could take up the whole world.

[416] Maybe they're everywhere.

[417] I mean, really.

[418] Maybe Grandby was God.

[419] I mean, we all have themselves, sure.

[420] You can't make it through this.

[421] Unskath.

[422] Well, that's a really positive story.

[423] I like this.

[424] This is a ghost that's being embraced and you're grateful.

[425] And again, I'm with you.

[426] If I had a real belief Pop -Babob was around, I would be thrilled.

[427] Yeah, I really was bitter that I didn't get him there with me for so many things.

[428] So selfishly, I'm going with good all the way because, you know, I don't want him to have missed this.

[429] Yeah, absolutely.

[430] Oh, well, Alyssa, that was incredible, and it was sweet.

[431] And we needed a sweet one because these are scary and spooky.

[432] I'm still spooked.

[433] Yeah, I actually didn't know if it was going to be spooky enough.

[434] You know, they can be what they are.

[435] They are what they are.

[436] I mean, the masturbation ones turned out to be super sweet.

[437] Right?

[438] Exactly.

[439] And the poopie on the day.

[440] Yeah.

[441] Yep, totally.

[442] Life affirmation comes in many forms.

[443] Well, we're so happy we got to meet you.

[444] Yeah, same.

[445] I almost said tell Carol we say hi, but please don't, because I don't really want to meet him.

[446] I'm so happy that you have that with your grampy, but I don't want to meet him.

[447] Okay.

[448] I'll hang with him.

[449] I don't care.

[450] No, Monica, he's not scary.

[451] He used to say things like fuddy -duddy and whoop -de -do when he stood up from a chair.

[452] That's cute.

[453] He's as safe as they come.

[454] Yeah, if you want a ghost -taunt in you, that's the one.

[455] Okay, fine.

[456] All right.

[457] Well, Alyssa, great meeting you.

[458] Thanks for that story.

[459] and have a happy, happy Halloween.

[460] I hope you have fun with your munchkin.

[461] Thank you, you too.

[462] Be well, guys.

[463] Okay, bye -bye.

[464] Bye.

[465] I'm getting scared about my house.

[466] Oh, you are?

[467] Calvin has a ghost friend.

[468] Oh, he does?

[469] Out of nowhere said he's got a ghost friend named Peter.

[470] Rob!

[471] You know, Carly would talk all the time about this guy.

[472] John Mayer, but that's the singer.

[473] It was something like John Mayer, and he was a terrible man. man. She'd always tell us that he killed people.

[474] And she was way too small.

[475] She was like three, four years old.

[476] And she'd tell us about John Mayer and how he'd kill people.

[477] And she hopes John Mayer doesn't find us.

[478] No. She had this whole, she knew someone named John Mayer and he was like a serial killer.

[479] And none of this, of course, had been introduced to her through TV or us saying it.

[480] And, you know, who knows what that was about?

[481] Ew.

[482] We don't know anyone named Peter.

[483] And it was only moved into the new house, which is an old house.

[484] Okay.

[485] He was just talking about his friend.

[486] Peter that's in his room.

[487] No. No. No. It's okay.

[488] They're having fun, it sounds like.

[489] Yeah, he seems nice.

[490] An old scary man named Peter hanging out with Calvin.

[491] Maybe that's who got him in a dance.

[492] Could be.

[493] You don't know.

[494] You guys.

[495] Maybe Peter beatboxes.

[496] Take this seriously.

[497] This is very scary.

[498] I'm taking this as seriously as I think I have the capacity to take it.

[499] I think I'm already doing a pretty good job.

[500] You are.

[501] What's up guys?

[502] Guys, it's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[503] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[504] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[505] And I don't mean just friends.

[506] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[507] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[508] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[509] We've all been there.

[510] Turning to the Internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pain.

[511] debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[512] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[513] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[514] Hey, listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[515] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[516] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[517] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[518] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[519] Claudia's here.

[520] Hi.

[521] Hi.

[522] Hi, Claudia.

[523] Is that your purple octopus or do you have little ones?

[524] I am a director of a school called Piper.

[525] There's one.

[526] in L .A. and want to Santa Monica.

[527] Oh, okay.

[528] I'm located in Irvine.

[529] We just opened our campus yesterday.

[530] Congratulations.

[531] Yeah.

[532] Thank you.

[533] Thank you so much.

[534] I hope your story, Claudia, doesn't involve a spirit possession at the new school.

[535] That wouldn't be the best calling card for the new school.

[536] No, but we've had some things happen in the past, but we've cleared that all up.

[537] Oh.

[538] Yeah.

[539] I can't save the whole place because we had some encounters in one of the kids.

[540] classrooms.

[541] No. Oh, my God.

[542] Really?

[543] No. Yeah.

[544] Is that your primary story or that's just an auxiliary experience?

[545] I've had multiple auxiliary experiences.

[546] Starting at what age?

[547] Are you Filipino?

[548] No, I'm Indonesian Vietnamese.

[549] Damn it.

[550] Explain yourself.

[551] We know Filipinos really, really believe in ghosts.

[552] It's a cornerstone of the culture.

[553] Yeah.

[554] So are the Vietnamese.

[555] Oh, okay.

[556] My mom had to bless our house because I had brought things home.

[557] Again, auxiliary.

[558] I was in high school, did something, went somewhere, didn't know that I brought spirits home from a house party.

[559] They just lived in our home and I didn't know, but my mom would see them and she would say, hey, I think we need to get the house blessed.

[560] You brought something home.

[561] Priest came in and I couldn't be in the home.

[562] And he put mirrors on the door frame and they put new door frame around it to like clear it.

[563] Can I ask quickly, is this a service that you've find out from your fellow church members?

[564] Like, you can't go on the phone book and get this service.

[565] No, my mom went to the temple to ask about how to clear the energy in the home.

[566] I was not allowed to go to funerals up until recently in my 30s.

[567] You're a person that they cling to?

[568] Yeah, so, like, I'm a vessel.

[569] And do people have varying levels of their vesselness?

[570] Like, did your parents think you are uniquely susceptible to picking up these things?

[571] Yeah.

[572] Did your worldliness scare them just in general?

[573] In general, it scares people.

[574] When my husband met me, we were out at the Queen Mary and I said something to him and he was like, what?

[575] And then we verified it and it was in fact true what I had seen and heard.

[576] For me to get past that the girl I'm dating is going to be like a sticky shoe picking up spirits everywhere.

[577] Like you'd have to be transcendent behind closed doors.

[578] Medium in the streets, Hellcat and the sheets.

[579] Oh my God.

[580] I'm going to tell him that.

[581] He's going to love it.

[582] Okay.

[583] Tell us the main story here.

[584] Yeah.

[585] Okay.

[586] So 2009, I was invited to a place called Angels Camp.

[587] It's in Northern California.

[588] So they're famous for their caves and their zip lining.

[589] And then the idea of glamping.

[590] You know, you rent these places and you bring a sleeping bag and it's actually a lodge.

[591] It's my kind of camping.

[592] Yeah, Monica camping.

[593] It's And they're like, hey, we're going to go to these caves.

[594] They're really cool.

[595] I've never been to a cave.

[596] I was really excited about it.

[597] So we go to the cave.

[598] There's five of us.

[599] And it's a group tour.

[600] So you're bundled with like 20 plus people.

[601] You go into this one room.

[602] And they brief you, you sign documents.

[603] You know, you're signing your life away.

[604] And they're like, okay, you know, it's, I don't remember it was 50 or 100 feet below ground.

[605] Just remember there's small spaces.

[606] If you're claustrophobic, don't go.

[607] if you're pregnant, don't go.

[608] All the same things they do for Disneyland, right?

[609] Kind of like an episode of this show where I'm like, basically don't listen to this show.

[610] Yeah, a lot of don'ts.

[611] So anyways, we start descending and we are on a narrow stairwell, people in front of me, people behind me. Then thinking of it, we start going down and I'm like starting to sweat, just thinking about it.

[612] And I start hearing voices.

[613] And I'm like, is it people in front of me, people behind me?

[614] Maybe it's just children, right?

[615] Because there are children there.

[616] We start getting closer and closer down into the actual cave itself, and I start seeing something, faces and colors.

[617] And I thought, maybe it's just the lights because there's lights beaming onto the cave.

[618] So I dismiss it, and we start walking.

[619] And all of a sudden, I just start seeing more faces and more colors.

[620] And I start hearing voices now, and the voices are getting louder, and they're audible.

[621] And they're saying, help me, help me. And their children, then their elders, their faces kept flashing in front of me. and they kept saying, help me, Claudia, help me, save us.

[622] Now at this point, couldn't move from where I was.

[623] Don't remember anything else from there.

[624] Have my hands over my ears.

[625] My eyes are closed, and I'm just petrified because I've never felt or seen or heard anything so strong.

[626] I mean, it was real.

[627] Mass agony, I am now huddled completely in that fetal position.

[628] My heads between my legs, I all of a sudden just black out.

[629] Next thing I know, I'm outside.

[630] sitting at a picnic table and I'm crying and I'm screaming.

[631] Stop talking.

[632] Like, I can't help you.

[633] I'm not here to help you.

[634] Leave me alone.

[635] I'm saying these things, again, not knowing I'm saying them.

[636] Your friends, they know your history or they think you're having a psychotic break or they think you're on shrunk.

[637] One friend knows my history.

[638] The other friend thought I was having a panic attack.

[639] From the confined space.

[640] Right.

[641] And so the friend who got me out of this blackout, he's my friend who knew.

[642] I told them, I said, there is something wrong down there.

[643] I don't know what I just saw or why someone's asking me for help or why these children are asking me for help and why I was seeing native elders flashing before me, begging me to take them.

[644] And so he said, you know, these caves were actually caves where the natives would trap people.

[645] And he pointed over just to like maybe five feet where we were sitting and a hole maybe, I don't know, a foot to two feet wide.

[646] where it dropped into that cave and they would basically corral them to those holes and they would drop into these holes and die in these caves.

[647] And he said, I didn't want to freak you out because he knows my story.

[648] And he's like, I wanted you to be able to enjoy yourself and not worry about feeling or seeing or hearing anything.

[649] And I'm like, are you fucking kidding me?

[650] You shouldn't have told me because I would have been more prepared for this situation.

[651] And that option to let me say yes or no would have been a, appreciated.

[652] So I finally catch my breath.

[653] Everybody starts coming out and a few of them are like, she's having a panic attack.

[654] She'll be fine.

[655] And I'm going, no, that was not a panic attack.

[656] I know what that was.

[657] And so made it through the night.

[658] We go zip lighting the next day, but I kind of wanted to do my own research.

[659] So I went to the gift shop.

[660] They have this glass booth with a history of the place and there are teeth and skulls and jawbones all along this glass case.

[661] And I'm like, you all know, knew this.

[662] And yet you let the person who was the most clairvoyant just go deep diving.

[663] So we want to talk about getting blessed and cleansed.

[664] I had no choice but to go to church.

[665] You had to do a deep clean.

[666] I did.

[667] What does that entail?

[668] So basically, I was told I had to officially close my third eye.

[669] And that's the connection to the other world.

[670] And so they did a blessing.

[671] They told me I had to pray about it and just if I do hear or see any spirits or any energy moving forward, I would just pray for them or ask them, how can I help you, acknowledge it?

[672] I've heard that.

[673] I didn't know that at that time when they were all asking me for help that if I had just asked them, I think I would have been okay.

[674] Who knows?

[675] It's hard to imagine what it is that you could have solved for them.

[676] Dynamite the cave, leave some food behind.

[677] What could we do?

[678] I don't know.

[679] I mean, now I've just learned, I just ask, like, how can I help you?

[680] Are you okay?

[681] Are you safe?

[682] I mean, Queen Mary has its own history.

[683] Yeah, people think there's ghosts on the Queen Mary, right?

[684] Is this the one, the QE3 or whatever?

[685] Is this the one that is in Long Beach?

[686] Yeah.

[687] They have a great fireworks display there on Fourth of July.

[688] I just want to add something positive.

[689] Ghosts flying around.

[690] Yeah, they're riding the rockets up into the sky.

[691] Yeah, so a lot of energy on that boat and auxiliary to share with you because I know the queen mary isn't open anymore the first time i stay there my husband i got a beautiful room at some point in the middle of night i hear kids running and screaming like stop get off me and that was it and i thought you know kids are kids that's what they do so we go outside there is no floor above us it's the deck and i woke up my husband and i was just like do you hear that do you hear those kids and he was like i don't hear anything what's his overall demeanor on this again i'm trying to put myself in his shoes So you're probably semi -regularly saying, do you hear this and he doesn't?

[692] Is he like, listen, girl, I'm never going to hear this stuff?

[693] He actually embraced it after our Queen Mary encounter because I kept pointing out things that didn't exist, meaning there wasn't any information, but there were reports that confirmed what I was saying.

[694] Uh -huh.

[695] After that, he pretty much was like, so what are they telling you?

[696] Where are they taking you?

[697] Where do you want to go?

[698] Oh, wonderful.

[699] And he wants me to go further into it.

[700] And I'm like, no, we're not going to go there because I don't know where they're going to take me. Yeah.

[701] And according to people you're seeking counsel for this, the ones who said go cleanse yourself, what is their theory on?

[702] What is the worst outcome of this?

[703] You'll get sucked into some other world?

[704] Or what do they think?

[705] That you can basically bring in really, really dark spirits.

[706] Do they have the intention of killing people?

[707] Right.

[708] What do they want to do?

[709] So this particular one that I brought home, she, He apparently was an ancestor that I didn't know about.

[710] She stayed in my room, but would every now and then go haunt my little brother, whose room was right next door to me, and he would have paralysis.

[711] Oh, gosh, that's terrifying.

[712] Oh, my God.

[713] I'm about to cry.

[714] And my mom, that's when she figured out.

[715] Yeah, Claudia's brought something home.

[716] Time to get rid of this.

[717] Can I be dead honest with you?

[718] Yeah.

[719] All that's rattling around in my head is a question that you will hate and Monica will hate.

[720] So let's just start there.

[721] Is there anything sexual about this?

[722] No, no, no. Well, I'll tell you why I asked that question.

[723] So the Maritime Hotel in Manhattan in the meatpacking district is rumored to have been, it was like a wayward home for girls at some point.

[724] And then it was like maybe a brothel for a minute.

[725] So there are stories of sexy women starting to caress people when they're asleep.

[726] And I stayed there for a month making baby mama or maybe two months.

[727] And I remember thinking like, you know, if that happens to me, I'm down to part.

[728] party.

[729] Like, I would love to have a threesome with a couple of ghosts.

[730] I don't know if that's possible.

[731] I've never had any encounters like that just because they've all been pretty much like save me. They're not cruising.

[732] No, they're stuck between a whole world and whatever world they need to be in.

[733] I think you've got to figure out how to get these people to the next plane.

[734] I don't know.

[735] For me, I feel like I would research to see if there was a name linked to the soul and then pray for that soul.

[736] And hopefully that would free them.

[737] Send up a rocket flare to God.

[738] Like, hey, you got a straggler here.

[739] Or maybe I can reach out to Elon Musk and put it at a Tesla and shoot that out.

[740] Yeah, blast it.

[741] Oh, my goodness.

[742] Well, Claudia, what an incredible experience you're having on Earth.

[743] I have not had anything like that.

[744] I got to say I'm a little jealous.

[745] I'm an experience junkie.

[746] I really think there is definitely a bonus to all of it.

[747] And I appreciate the positive side to it.

[748] And, you know, my husband also sees a positive because he's like, let's see what you can do.

[749] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[750] Let's see your powers.

[751] Well, Claudia, great meeting you, and thank you so much for telling us that Halloween story.

[752] Halloween, it's like year -round.

[753] Well, thank you so much.

[754] I really appreciate it.

[755] Take care.

[756] Bye.

[757] Were your feet sweaty?

[758] It's hard of me to tell.

[759] Okay, Courtney, can you hear all this?

[760] I can barely hear you.

[761] Oh, okay.

[762] You already look like you're in a haunted.

[763] house.

[764] I know.

[765] Well, I had to set this evening, right?

[766] Yes, exactly.

[767] Where are you?

[768] Rhode Island.

[769] How far away are you from Providence?

[770] Or are you in Providence?

[771] I'm not in Providence.

[772] I work in Providence, and I live sort of on the South Coast.

[773] Okay, wonderful.

[774] So you have a spooky story for us, and you're in a spooky environment, and we're very excited to hear.

[775] So, Courtney, tell us what happened.

[776] Okay.

[777] So I actually have a lot of spooky stories, but I think this is probably my favorite.

[778] Okay.

[779] So I own Providence Ghost Tour.

[780] So I am in Providence and full of ghosts all the time.

[781] But this actually took place in Chemelt, Oregon.

[782] So to set the scene, my husband and I are road trippers.

[783] We've been cross -country multiple times.

[784] That's our jam.

[785] Take off a few weeks and just see what you see.

[786] So this was in 2015.

[787] We were kind of doing the top state.

[788] So going across the northern border.

[789] We bumped into Oregon.

[790] We saw a lot of Oregon.

[791] What a beautiful state.

[792] Yes.

[793] When it's not on fire, it's unmatched.

[794] Exactly.

[795] It actually was on fire at that time.

[796] We were sort of rerouting and kind of reorganizing ourselves.

[797] When we travel, we fly by the seat of our pants.

[798] So we don't make reservations.

[799] We just sort of mark out roughly where we want to go and we figure it out from there.

[800] We'd get along perfectly, Courtney.

[801] You have the bus, though.

[802] I think we rented a Prius for this trip.

[803] Okay.

[804] Oh, wow.

[805] Very similar.

[806] My husband and I traveled with our dog, so Baxter Joseph.

[807] He passed away last October.

[808] I'm sorry.

[809] we had a good run with him.

[810] So we're with Baxter.

[811] He's a very adaptable dog.

[812] So he's almost mute, barely barks at all.

[813] Maybe like six times a year he will bark.

[814] He's been in and out of hotels since we got him.

[815] He went to 42 states in his lifetime.

[816] So that's like pretty solid for a dog.

[817] Yeah.

[818] So we make it to Oregon.

[819] We're headed to Crater Lake.

[820] Big fires everywhere.

[821] So we're sort of like, okay, where do we go?

[822] How do we get there?

[823] It's time to pick a place to stay the night.

[824] And it was very cold.

[825] It was early September.

[826] but like super chilly up there.

[827] So it wasn't a night for like a camp out.

[828] It was definitely like a hotel sort of a night.

[829] So we're looking and we find a hotel that takes dogs.

[830] And we pull up to it and I'm like, oh, no. Right away.

[831] It's pretty run down, you know.

[832] And like Chamel is a super tiny town.

[833] Even town feels like a loose interpretation.

[834] You saw Shaggy and Scooby exiting the hotel.

[835] They were jumping in the bus and driving away as fast as they could.

[836] So we pull up, I decide I'm going to go.

[837] go in and scope this place out.

[838] I'm not too picky.

[839] If it doesn't have bedbugs, I can manage it for a night.

[840] I go in.

[841] It looked like central casting had cast this woman to be the owner of a creepy hotel.

[842] Oh, God.

[843] Welcome.

[844] I was like, do you have any rooms?

[845] And she was like, yep, where do you want to stay?

[846] And the rooms all have different names.

[847] And I'm like, I don't know the rooms.

[848] I couldn't tell you.

[849] So she was like, the truck room is really nice.

[850] And it had an exit to go directly outside so I could take the dog out.

[851] So I was like, that's perfect.

[852] Let's go for it.

[853] So I plunk down the money, go out to get my husband, glad to get the dog, and Kevin's managing our baggage.

[854] And Baxter plants his feet and is looking at this building, like, absolutely not, mom.

[855] No way.

[856] And I'm like, okay, come on, dude.

[857] Like, let's go.

[858] So I, like, wrestle him into the building.

[859] And then I noticed there are porcelain dolls.

[860] No. Hold on.

[861] Can I ask one quick question?

[862] If you host a ghost tour, you must be mildly excited, right?

[863] You like seeing ghosts.

[864] So you must be a little bit pumped about this.

[865] So at that point, I was just like, this place seems weird and kind of run down.

[866] I wasn't even thinking ghosts at that time.

[867] Okay, okay.

[868] It was just this is grody.

[869] Just like, ooh, I hope it's clean.

[870] But it was.

[871] I have to give them credit, like super duper clean.

[872] So no concerns there.

[873] Porcelain dolls everywhere, which is like, okay, that's not my taste, but that's all right.

[874] We get up this winding staircase, and I'm like manhandling poor Baxter.

[875] He's like a 65 -pound dog.

[876] He's not a petite fellow.

[877] Get into the room, he looks terrified.

[878] Eyes wide open.

[879] I look and I see a woman in our room.

[880] Yes, ma 'am.

[881] She's got like a threadbare sort of a dress that's like a little longer than a middy style dress.

[882] It's old.

[883] She's got an apron going on and her hands are kind of covering her stomach and she's just standing.

[884] Okay, I need, so this is always one of Carrie's about because I've never seen a ghost.

[885] Is it like from the movies, is it look like a hologram or does it look like a full, non -translucent human being that you couldn't pass an object through?

[886] So she was, we call that an apparition in sort of like the ghosty world.

[887] So she's a little hazy and foggy.

[888] Like I can see what's behind her.

[889] Oh.

[890] Baxter is looking straight at her.

[891] My husband is the least sensitive guy out there.

[892] But he's like, this place is weird.

[893] So in my head, I'm like, do I tell my husband?

[894] Yeah.

[895] Like, what do I say?

[896] But then I'm like, there's nowhere else.

[897] for us to stay.

[898] Like, this is it for the night kid.

[899] So I'm sort of going through that in my head.

[900] What do I do?

[901] And then I'm just like, you know what, Courtney?

[902] Grit up and get through this.

[903] You're fine.

[904] She's just there.

[905] Baxter is like super distressed.

[906] He's anxious.

[907] He's moving constantly, like, looking at that same site.

[908] And I'm sure in his head, he's like, what are you people doing?

[909] Why are we acting like there's not an aborician?

[910] Why are we pretending this lady is not here?

[911] And your husband has looked in that area and he just can't see it.

[912] Oh, we've walked all around the room.

[913] He doesn't see it.

[914] anything.

[915] There's a gas station across the street with a subway.

[916] And Kevin's like, I'm gonna go out.

[917] I'll grab us some food.

[918] And I was like, oh, you're not leaving me. We're going as a family.

[919] So we leave.

[920] We come back.

[921] Lady is there.

[922] In the same spot.

[923] In the same spot, she's just hanging out.

[924] I don't get a bad vibe off of her.

[925] Again, this is not my first rodeo, but it's very unsettling for sure.

[926] Yeah.

[927] At some point she disappeared.

[928] So I don't remember when that was, but at some point in the night, I didn't see her anymore.

[929] We eat our dinner.

[930] We settle into bed.

[931] We're just like, let's just go to bed.

[932] Let's get this over with.

[933] Really quick, a little just armchair theory.

[934] So I've many times been in New York City and I'm like looking out a window and I can see into someone else's apartment.

[935] And I can watch somebody just make dinner and do their thing for a very long time.

[936] I'm always shocked with how long I can watch someone do a very mundane thing.

[937] I guess in the back of my mind, I think something spectacular is going to happen and I'm going to be watching.

[938] Of course, eventually I tire of it.

[939] I'm like, nothing's going to happen.

[940] This is just a dinner.

[941] I wonder, so if she was watching, maybe hoping for some kind of activity, and then finally was just like, all right, well, this got boring.

[942] They're really just going to settle in for the night.

[943] Maybe.

[944] We may have disappointed her greatly, so I'm terribly sorry, ma 'am.

[945] How old was she?

[946] A rough 40 or a well -lived 50.

[947] Okay, so young -ish.

[948] Yeah, and not of this era, but not like Victorian times or something like that, like a hard -working woman.

[949] So, you know, we continue on.

[950] We get settled in bed.

[951] And my husband turned to me and he was like, can we just leave the TV on tonight?

[952] Yes.

[953] And I was like, mm -hmm, we totally can.

[954] Absolutely.

[955] So we turn on the TV.

[956] It's a marathon of Rich Prince of Bel Air.

[957] Great counter programming, yes.

[958] Totally, exactly.

[959] Does she turn and watch?

[960] She's not there at this point that I can see.

[961] So it gets later, I can't fall asleep to save my life.

[962] My husband's like roughly dozing, but then waking up at a time.

[963] some point, I hear people in the hallway.

[964] People are stomping around.

[965] They're rattling our door knob.

[966] That woke up my husband.

[967] And he was like, who's out there?

[968] Like, what is this?

[969] And I was like, I don't know, like a late group came in or something, which is very strange because we're really in the middle of nowhere.

[970] And this sounds like a lot of people, but I'm very tired.

[971] We're just trying to get to sleep.

[972] Later in the night, I had dozed off.

[973] I wake up because there's light shining up from the floor.

[974] And of course you rationalize.

[975] Like, I'm a hopeful skeptic.

[976] I don't believe everything that somebody tells me. That just doesn't make sense.

[977] We have to look for something logical.

[978] So in my head, I'm like, you know what?

[979] This is an old building.

[980] It probably has those like wide pine floors with gaps between somebody's in a room below us and that's what the light is from.

[981] So I drift off again, about five o 'clock.

[982] We're both awake and we just want to get out of here.

[983] And we do.

[984] So we pack up.

[985] Kevin kind of collects our stuff, gets that in the car.

[986] I take Baxter outside for a walk.

[987] As I walk out, we have the only car in the driveway.

[988] There are no other people.

[989] Nobody came in the night before.

[990] So Kev's in the car, Baxter's in the car.

[991] I go in for one final sweep and I realize that I'm walking on wall -to -wall carpeting.

[992] So there was no light that was shining up from anything.

[993] We get in the car and we say nothing.

[994] Usually you would process this.

[995] You'd be like, this was a very strange experience.

[996] Like, can we discuss?

[997] Just like straight ahead, I just need to get away from this situation.

[998] So the trip goes on.

[999] We come back.

[1000] We're headed back to Rhode Island.

[1001] We're traveling super late at night through Pennsylvania, just trying to make it home.

[1002] And I'm trying to keep my husband awake.

[1003] And I was like, remember that hotel?

[1004] And he's like, that was so weird.

[1005] What was going on?

[1006] And then I look it up on my phone.

[1007] I'm like, maybe there's some history or something that I can find.

[1008] What I found was a paranormal investigation group that had been there.

[1009] And they specifically cited the truck room as being one of the most haunted.

[1010] So this used to be.

[1011] be like an old boarding house.

[1012] It was right by the railroad.

[1013] So railroad people would stay there.

[1014] Yeah, misfits.

[1015] And the former owner was pickaxed through the stomach and she died.

[1016] No. Oh, good.

[1017] Whoa.

[1018] Her stomach.

[1019] She was touching her stomach.

[1020] I know.

[1021] Oh, you put it all together.

[1022] I hate this.

[1023] I have a knack for accidentally staying in haunted places.

[1024] I usually like to keep personal life in one space and professional life in another.

[1025] but the intersection happens sometimes.

[1026] They commingled.

[1027] Well, when you love what you do, you're never working.

[1028] I guess that's...

[1029] No, but you didn't love it.

[1030] I didn't love that.

[1031] It was pretty uncomfortable.

[1032] What is it that you're afraid of?

[1033] What do you think these ghosts can do?

[1034] Do you think they can kill you?

[1035] I really don't.

[1036] And most of the time, it's really pleasant experiences.

[1037] It's just, I think, not having control.

[1038] You know, like in life, we're going to choose the company that we keep, and I can't really choose that company.

[1039] Yes.

[1040] I bet this would line up nicely with how much or, not much, people like being on hallucinogenics.

[1041] Like, I have been on massive amounts of hallucingenics.

[1042] I'm seeing stuff, and I'm like, yeah, let's see the show.

[1043] Oh, there's faces coming out of the carpet.

[1044] Great, let's see them interact.

[1045] I'm inclined to think I might enjoy these things.

[1046] Like, well, let's see what else.

[1047] Lady, go grab the other people to pick act, like, put on a show.

[1048] But if you're someone who hates hallucinogenics and you don't like when those things are happening, I bet you'd also hate being around ghosts.

[1049] But you also don't like a lack of control, especially.

[1050] over the people around you it's always like once i assess i am not in danger then i can shift immediately into enjoying it right if i really think i'm in danger then of course i'm not going to enjoy anything but when i'm on shrooms in the redwood forest and santa cruz and like the two redwood trees are now kind of alive and doing their own thing there is some voice in my head's like yeah this is all drug induced so enjoy like you can't see this otherwise i don't like her okay she sounds like a victim are you victim blaming?

[1051] What?

[1052] She got pickaxed in it.

[1053] I'm sorry that that happened to her, but I need her to go away.

[1054] Okay.

[1055] Do you think it's like a metaphor for that people can't let go of things and that all this stuff is like some kind of broader parable about ghosts are people who hung on too tight and couldn't let go of things and move on.

[1056] Well, I think they - Maybe that's what they exist in our culture to demonstrate.

[1057] They didn't have closure over their life.

[1058] There was something incomplete.

[1059] Yeah, and we just had an expert on talking about this.

[1060] There's no such thing as closure, just to let everyone know.

[1061] There's no such thing as closure.

[1062] You'll never hear the perfect sentence that will clear everything up and put your mind at ease and give you peace for a situation you did not enjoy.

[1063] That's an illusion.

[1064] Since you do ghost tours, do you have advice, like if you have a ghost in your orbit and do you want them gone?

[1065] How do you do that?

[1066] So I don't know that you'll be able to make them leave if they're not ready to leave.

[1067] Oh my God.

[1068] But I think talking to them and just being really direct.

[1069] So, I mean, maybe it makes me seem like a lunatic, but I'll just be really direct with having a conversation and also setting boundaries, just like I would with a person in my life if I feel like they're encroaching on my space.

[1070] I'm not comfortable with this.

[1071] There's nothing I can do for you.

[1072] I respect you.

[1073] But I'm not here for a relationship and sort of laying the groundwork for that.

[1074] Okay.

[1075] Okay.

[1076] So with the ghost tour, I did tons of research before the ghost tour sort of became a thing to understand who these entities were that I was talking about, to find the history and all that sort of stuff.

[1077] You just treat them like people because they were, right?

[1078] They were people.

[1079] So as many of them are going to be sort of ugly and unpleasant as there are unpleasant people in this world, as many of them are going to be absolute delights as there are absolute delights in this world.

[1080] And so you're just going to have to give them cues about what you want from the relationship.

[1081] Right.

[1082] Wow.

[1083] Great advice.

[1084] That is good advice.

[1085] Courtney, that's wonderful.

[1086] Of course, now I want to stay at this place.

[1087] My family all lives up in Oregon, and maybe I'll pitch a detour to this place.

[1088] I got to stay in the trunk room.

[1089] Is that what you called it?

[1090] Trupp.

[1091] T -R -U -P -P.

[1092] That's not even a word.

[1093] That's interesting.

[1094] Did you ask her, like, is that a name?

[1095] It's got to be a name.

[1096] Check it out.

[1097] Thank you so much, Courtney.

[1098] That was a lovely story.

[1099] And I really appreciate the environment you told it to us in because it was very spooky.

[1100] Thank you very much.

[1101] You'll have a great day.

[1102] Thank you.

[1103] You do.

[1104] Bye.

[1105] What do you think, Monica?

[1106] I'm so scared.

[1107] Yeah, you must have love that because you believe in ghosts.

[1108] Well, I don't know if I believe in them, but I'm definitely not.

[1109] It's like how I feel about, honestly, God.

[1110] It's like I'm not going to say either way because I just don't know.

[1111] I know that I don't know.

[1112] But here's what I do know.

[1113] I have a house that's 100 years old that a very old lady lived in and then did not die there making this clear.

[1114] Okay.

[1115] But I'm nervous.

[1116] No, we checked.

[1117] Yeah, we check.

[1118] No one has died there.

[1119] But, you know, she lived in that house.

[1120] house she was the second owner of that house she feels attached maybe i do have some fears about this right i'm gonna have to sage it or bless it okay she's an old white lady so she's probably a little racist oh wow that's what an assumption talk about benefit of the doubt we just learned you're supposed to give benefit of the doubt to these she might have been a civil rights activist true that's no she was very ornery well she was in a lot of discomfort i saw her she was always getting carded in and out of the place She wasn't living her best life by the time we met her.

[1121] She probably was like good riddins of that place.

[1122] I can't wait to get up in the clouds with my ex.

[1123] I hope so.

[1124] Frolick around in God's rapture.

[1125] I hope.

[1126] Okay.

[1127] Well, listen, spooky, spooky stuff.

[1128] Happy Halloween to all.

[1129] Did you get a little bit spooked?

[1130] Can you just tell us if you got a little bit?

[1131] Not at all.

[1132] I think I made it really clear in all these interviews.

[1133] But I would ask the ghosts if they wanted to make love because that's not cheating.

[1134] All right.

[1135] Yeah.

[1136] Have fun.

[1137] Okay.

[1138] Happy Halloween.

[1139] I'll send my old lady.

[1140] over to your house.

[1141] Oh, I'll give her a roll -around.

[1142] I'll give her the platinum package.

[1143] All right.

[1144] Bye.

[1145] Do you want to sing a tune or something?

[1146] We don't have a theme song.

[1147] Oh.

[1148] We don't have a thing song for this new show.

[1149] So here I go, go, go.

[1150] We're going to ask some random questions and with the help of our cherries, we'll get some suggestions.

[1151] On the fly a rhyme dish.

[1152] I love why I rhyme dish Enjoy Follow armchair expert on the Wondry app Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts You can listen to every episode of Armchair expert early And ad free right now By joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app Or on Apple Podcasts Before you go, tell us about yourself By completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey way.