#854 - Louie Simmons

[0] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

[1] The Joe Rogan Experience.

[2] Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[3] All right.

[4] We're live.

[5] Thanks for having me, man. I really appreciate it.

[6] Yeah, I'm glad you here, Jim.

[7] Yeah, you've got a very interesting setup, and I've talked to quite a few people, worked with you, and your unconventional ways, and you've got a great reputation, just so you know.

[8] Yeah.

[9] Hey, thank you, so it's a conventional, but scientific.

[10] Scientific.

[11] Well, that reverse hyper, that machine that you created, I've talked about that a hundred times on my podcast.

[12] That thing has done wonders from my back, and it's just a genius product.

[13] You're right?

[14] It's a genius product.

[15] How did you invent that thing?

[16] I invented that on the essentially.

[17] I brought my lower back in 1973.

[18] You invented that thing in 73?

[19] Well, I started the exercise.

[20] Actually, about 74 started the exercise.

[21] I brought my lower back in 73, and I was on crutches for 10 months, and no one was helping me. so I just come out I do back extensions where you hook your ankles and raise your upper body but that would kill my back so I thought what if I did it in reverse so I jumped up on a platform dropped my legs raised them up pumped up my back didn't hurt and that's how it was the beginning stages of it and then years later we've always been a private gym and out into the public so it was never out in the public and then I finally made a machine years later and got my first patent in 1994 how is it that no one knows about that thing I mean how is it that it's not a gigantic fantastic success i mean it's uh well we we're actually so we saw over a little bit over 100 a month 100 machines a month well i hope i've sold some of them for you you have i mean i want to thank you for that and uh that's the way you know it's like you know like sex once you have is you got to keep it yeah i don't remember how i heard about it i don't remember who initially told me about it but i was having some disc issues and uh they all want to cut you open man if you go to doctors they all want to fuse discs and cut you open and there's all this talk and I was like wow there's got to be another way so then I started researching stuff and I don't remember how I came upon the reverse hyper but I remember as soon as I saw it I went wow that's a genius idea because you're just the idea is right that when you're getting a bulging disc it's because things are getting compressed so just pull them apart right we've got another machine a bell squat machine we use it for grappling way actually fight in there and it's it's not a reverse hybrid but it's a traction device as well so we can do a normal amount of work and at the same time it's restoration so what is the other one called it's called a bell squat machine bell squat put you in a platform with a belt around your waist with maybe 100 200 200 pounds and then we grapple or we or we shadow spar or you can do anything we actually lift weights and we use enormous amount of weights me 2 ,000 pounds in it but why it's building up your glutes and all the old lower body it's traction out your spine and it's um but the restoration is tremendous the next day you don't know you worked out but just you've done thousands of pounds of work and why I've got the world stronger as Jim.

[22] Wow.

[23] So you started out as a power lifter?

[24] Started out as a power lifting and I was 14.

[25] And then I went to my first power meet in 1966 and saw guys as really built, never went back to Olympic lifting again.

[26] And then power lifted all my life.

[27] Made top 10 for 34 years.

[28] That's why I'm so beat up.

[29] And but I love the sport.

[30] I love strength and power.

[31] I also love, if it's in time or weights, I love it.

[32] You know, something you can measure.

[33] You know, it's good to be.

[34] I'd like to work in football because I'd average three -tenths off 12 linemen going in the NFL.

[35] Some win the NFL?

[36] Some didn't.

[37] So you just never know.

[38] But I like just basic things, statistics, you know.

[39] How strong are you?

[40] How fast are you?

[41] Now, for the person who doesn't understand us, what is the difference between power lifting and Olympic lifting?

[42] Power lifting, you've been squat and deadlift, and Olympic lifting, you clean, jerk, and snatch.

[43] Power lifting is an absolute strength sport.

[44] The weight can be very, very slow.

[45] an Olympic lifting because like at a clean you have four you have two poles front squat and a jerk whatever your weakest stats that's what you're limited at but that's a speed strength sport and that means velocity speed strength is intermediate velocity my sport is slow velocity and then if you jump that's explosive that's explosive power and that's measured in past velocities if you want to build explosive power you jump and how did you get involved with working with fighters because I know you work with Matt Brown and you worked with a bunch of guys.

[46] Well, not a bunch.

[47] Kevin Rannerman.

[48] Kevin Rannerman.

[49] I started Kevin Renneman.

[50] And I was experimenting.

[51] First off, I thought I was afraid I was going to hurt the guy.

[52] I found you can't hurt these guys.

[53] You know, they were hurting me. But that's how I started.

[54] It was fun.

[55] And back when Kevin, you know, when it was champion.

[56] I don't know when he was.

[57] You probably know when he was.

[58] Probably around 2000.

[59] Yeah, I was somewhere in that range.

[60] Somewhere around there.

[61] He was the UFC heavyweight champ.

[62] I know.

[63] Tried to get, you know, his buddy, Mark Coleman down here.

[64] and I never could get Mark down here I went to his house twice I thought he was going to kick my ass I got him all psyched up and he starts staring me down to rocking back and forth and I'm holy shit and then I tried to calm me down to get the hell out of there and then he said he wanted to talk to him again about him off there oh my god so I go back up there same thing happened and then I asked Kevin I said why he wanted to come down and he said he'd have to train you know I train optimally I don't train I'm smart to train optimally you know you can't punch yourself out in the first round You train everything optimally.

[65] It's not minimal, not maximal, it's optimal.

[66] So when you would take a guy like Kevin Randomen, like a stud athlete like that, like how would you assess what optimum is for a guy like that?

[67] Well, that's what he was the first guy ever had.

[68] You know what a freak he was on the men.

[69] So Tom works up a lot of guys right now.

[70] And, I mean, Kevin was a freak.

[71] You saw Kevin.

[72] But we do a lot of sled work, upper body and lower body.

[73] And a lot of dumbbells for time.

[74] Like him and I, he is so upset one time.

[75] We tied.

[76] They did 107 reps with 75 -pound dumbbells and five minutes on stability ball.

[77] And he tied me. Wow.

[78] We both did 107 reps. He was highly upset.

[79] He's one of the best athletes ever in the sport.

[80] Oh, no kidding.

[81] Super explosive.

[82] Did he win the UFC Heavyweight title?

[83] Yes.

[84] I know he fought Boss Routen, and I think he lost the title to Boss Routen off his – it was a real controversial decision because Boss was hitting him off his back.

[85] did uh yeah he broke boss's nose is that right i'm sure yeah nose breaks are pretty common yeah it happened almost every fight yeah at least some sort of break almost every fighter has like some kind of a deviated septum well you see how fighting is now mark was pride champ and you'll see champ but fighting's changed now you know you know that you're every week you're there i'm only at home in my recliner watching it so it's so much more sophisticated i love mMA because it's highly technical a lot of people you hear people booze still when they get on the ground.

[86] I love the ground game.

[87] I love the, I think.

[88] You have to think.

[89] It's definitely very technical.

[90] Well, what's interesting, too, is that there's all these different approaches to strength and conditioning.

[91] And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you, because one of the things that I had seen was Matt working out with you and your guys, and he was doing all kinds of crazy stuff.

[92] Like, when you devise a plan, like, for an athlete, like a Matt Brown or someone like that, like, do you work with them first and try to figure out what they're capable of and then think about like what their style is like obviously you're going to have a different a different need if you're a striker versus a grappler well one thing we do we try to get them word of air condition to do five minute rounds and recover in one minute when i worked everything was five minutes and minute recovery some guys had run through eight eight rounds a lot of guys i was able to do that i mean pretty good fighters you know 13 13 wins and you know pro fights stuff like that so just word of recovery I want to maximize the amount of work I can do in five minutes and then be able to cover them one minute and do it again repeatedly.

[93] That's all I ever did.

[94] Work on five minute intervals.

[95] So did you work with guys to use heart rate monitors and like how did you decide what to have them?

[96] I've never done any of that.

[97] Really?

[98] Never.

[99] No, my friend John Saylor, he's got Shinikai Jiu Jitsu.

[100] He's basically started almost really the first MMA school in America if you think about because he was judo jujitsu samba, but also striking.

[101] And he started in 1985.

[102] Oh, wow.

[103] And he does everything by heart rate, where we do things by percentages.

[104] Like I said, we train by rates of velocity.

[105] Speed strength, you train in 75 to 85%.

[106] He would do heart rates like that.

[107] And like if you and I would grapple, if we could talk to each other for a half hour, that'd be optimal.

[108] You know, me and you could talk while we're doing it.

[109] That's an optimal heart rate that way.

[110] So he kept track of heart rates, basically how we do percentage of the one writ max.

[111] So meaning that it's optimal if you could still talk while you're doing the exercise?

[112] Yeah, you're training optimally.

[113] you're not, like, you know, that's how I would be, you know.

[114] But if you're going to fight, like, if you're going to fight and it's a very high -paced fight, it's very likely that you're going to achieve much higher rates of heart rate, you're going to be much more exhausted.

[115] That's right.

[116] But see, that would be optimum.

[117] That's how we train our speed days.

[118] Like today, for squatting and deadlifting is optimum.

[119] They do 25 squats at one weight and for speed strength, acceleration, and 20 deadlifts.

[120] And then the other day is max effort, and that's what you're talking about.

[121] where you go all out and around someone's pushing you you know they're trying to take you out so you got to fight back so uh it would see it always changes you can't do the same thing it's called law of accommodation if you and i if you and i grappled at the same rate all the time i would actually catch up to you know so you'd have to be able to maximize your potential and run me in the dirt so uh that's why you gotta have two different days you know you can't just do the same type of work all the time i think that's where a lot of fighters go wrong they get where they pace yourself too much you see that with full fighters You know, old fighters cover up.

[122] And, you know, I watch fights all my life from Roberto Durand to Muhammad and all I've watched them on.

[123] I'm sure you've got to be a big fight fan.

[124] And you just see how some people get in a scheduled amount of work per round, and that's when you can beat them.

[125] Take them out.

[126] In other words, you know, I'm going to make you go at my pace, not you go at my pace.

[127] I'm going to follow your pace.

[128] You'll make you go at mine.

[129] So varying the intensity of the training, varying how you do your training, you think that's very important.

[130] Very important.

[131] It has to change all the zone.

[132] So does it have to change all the time because the body just adapts and gets efficient?

[133] Right.

[134] That's what I say.

[135] That's what the law of accommodation is.

[136] You adapt to a training load or stimulus, and if you don't change it, you get no better.

[137] You actually go backwards.

[138] So you constantly got to change these stimulus.

[139] Tom does a lot of stuff with war barrels.

[140] We push wheelbails around for half a mile running, sometimes heavier weight, walking, get in the belt squat.

[141] It's very grueling.

[142] And then just maximal strength, which are simple things like deadless, good mornings.

[143] We do a lot of stuff holding the bars in their elbows.

[144] Tom hasn't did a lot of that because it's almost like grappling up, pumbling.

[145] And then other times, you know, you've got to do quick stuff.

[146] So quicker pace stuff.

[147] So, you know, that's how fights are.

[148] They're never one pace.

[149] Now, how do you, like, create a schedule?

[150] Like, say if you're working with a guy and you, you know.

[151] We don't believe in schedule.

[152] You don't believe in it.

[153] No, even my guys, I had the strongest gym in the world.

[154] It broke about 140 all -time world records.

[155] At breakfast, and Tom can verify, at breakfast in the morning at 6 o 'clock, 6 .30, we decide what we're going to do that day.

[156] Because she strength's measured in time.

[157] It's not measured in weight.

[158] It's measured in time.

[159] Mero, talked about velocities.

[160] And so we just pick an exercise.

[161] Like for you, if we did a real low box squat and it takes longer than squatting 800 pounds, you're going to squat 800 pounds.

[162] You choke me out.

[163] After a while, I'm going to tap.

[164] Or if we run, after a while, I'm going to run out of oxygen, I'm going to quit.

[165] Same thing for strength.

[166] You can only strain so long.

[167] So long as you strain, at least that length.

[168] the time or longer, you're going to break a classical lift and squat bench or deadlift.

[169] I'm not totally sure I understand what you're saying.

[170] Like, why do you have different opponents?

[171] You have, when you grapple, you're going to have different opponents, big ones, small ones, fast, and slow ones, left hand, right hand.

[172] And so you adapt to all different situations.

[173] That's what we do.

[174] As long as our training is harder than a contest, we're going to break records.

[175] I took a gentleman not long ago, an 800 -pound squad at 165, top of the one.

[176] world right now, 1880 total top in the world.

[177] I promised one year he breaks a world record.

[178] In less than a year, he's got a 109 pound world record in total of 2 ,080.

[179] And we just do it systematically.

[180] We run everything in ways, three for speed.

[181] We work on speed strength, acceleration, and we work, so we goes, it's basically 75, 80, 85%, and then on the fourth week, we way back and start over, we change the bar.

[182] So that way, by changing a safety squad bar, if you know what that is, or even a front squad, we change the length of the spine, you know, without really, you know, you only got one link to the spine, but we do it systematically by using different bars.

[183] So your brain has to now think differently because it's got a, the bar from where it sets on top of your back, your load back is different.

[184] So it has to adopt to that every three weeks.

[185] So by changing bars and changing, like, the type of workouts you do, it forces your body to adapt all sorts of different loads, all sorts of different ways of standing, all sorts of different outputs.

[186] Yeah, we change your leverages.

[187] Constantly change the leverage.

[188] and where the bar has to keep going the same.

[189] You know, like your car, I talk about this all the time.

[190] You know, if you look at your car, normal car, it shifts at 2 ,500 RPS every time it's just gears.

[191] Well, that's optimal horsepower for that car.

[192] And so we trained it to a certain percentage where the bar speed is optimal for explosive power.

[193] Or if we want, you know, it's 30, 40%, percent.

[194] Like if I'm going to take you down, I'd work on 30, 40 percent weights.

[195] We want to muscle you.

[196] I'd work on 75 to 85 percent weights.

[197] So it'd be string speed.

[198] And if I had to really grind you out, that's why we got to make you stronger.

[199] You know how strong grapplers are.

[200] And so we work on all different velocities of string inside of one week.

[201] And instead of doing high repetitions, like a person like you, let's say your lower back is susceptible to injury, you might have 600 pound legs, but only a 450 pound lower back.

[202] So we work individual muscle groups, single joint activity, like the reverse hyper, works your low back, handstrings, and spine erectors, right?

[203] we got a special machine that works to hamstrings.

[204] We've got all these different apparatuses that work different parts of your body so we don't have any muscle and balances like MMA.

[205] If you've got no stand -up, I'm going to stand up with you.

[206] You've got no grappling, I'm going to take you, you know.

[207] So we work on all these weaknesses and have balances.

[208] So we have constant balance of our strengths and abilities and work capacities.

[209] And so because you don't have a schedule and because you decide what you're going to do that day, do you just kind of assess like how your athletes are performing and what they're capable of doing given each individual day?

[210] We have records on all kind of things like Penn deadlifts or box deadlifts or some kind of squad or some kind of bench.

[211] Well, they break the entire gym.

[212] Now, there's only maybe 15 guys as a private gym.

[213] But you break the record over 90 % of the time.

[214] You're in, you're out.

[215] So why did you decide to have a private gym?

[216] Like, how come you don't open this up?

[217] I can't stand commercial gyms.

[218] I can't stand to be around people that don't.

[219] you know if you're a real fighter you don't want to be around a bunch of facts right i mean i can't stand i can't stand to go in the commercial gym you can't stand it i just got i'll leave in five minutes because they're not working out hard enough they're not working out they don't know what the hell they're doing you know looking in the mirrors looking at girls ass and shit like that i like ass but when i'm a gym i want to work out then i'll go look at the ass so you just decided to set up this gym we should do like a little tour of the gym at the end of this iron sharpens iron you know that right so if you run with the limb you develop a limb so don't hang around people like that.

[220] And how long have you had this gym for?

[221] Well, I've had a gym.

[222] I just started training by myself.

[223] I had a top toe in the world in 1973 for a while until I brought my back.

[224] But I've had a gym with training partners since 1976.

[225] I've got my first training partner in 1970.

[226] It's always been private.

[227] It was in my basement.

[228] Went to my garage.

[229] Then we had to start getting bigger and bigger.

[230] And bigger's not better, but we had to get bigger because we started to attract a lot of people that were good.

[231] I mean, they're selected to come here, like anybody else.

[232] So they just pay a membership?

[233] fee or something like that i pay everything you pay everything yeah how do you keep this place running this business right here oh selling books and videos and machines i don't know we got i've got like 11 or 13 patents oh i paid you know my money comes from royalties and put my name on different companies that's really interesting so it's like almost the gym itself doesn't bring in any profit it's just reputation probably i guess it 50 grand a year wow when you say 55000 a year the gym cost me 55 ,000 a year.

[234] Wow.

[235] But it's one of the most respected places in the world.

[236] Yeah, there's no signs.

[237] The most famous gym.

[238] There's no sign.

[239] I don't need a sign.

[240] Yeah, we're pulling in here.

[241] Like, where the fuck is this twice?

[242] That's what you like.

[243] Yeah.

[244] Wow.

[245] That's interesting.

[246] Well, that's about as hardcore as it gets.

[247] It would choke Linda Lovelace.

[248] There's a lot of people like, who the fucking Linda Love?

[249] It's right.

[250] They're not that old.

[251] Back in the day.

[252] Do you still power lift yourself?

[253] No, I had to quit five years ago.

[254] I mean, I kept, but my neck gave out.

[255] When I was 63, I did a 7 .30 squat in the meet, 5 .05 bench, 675, I did live at 2 ,17.

[256] When you're 63?

[257] Yeah.

[258] Wow.

[259] My neck just gave out where I was starting to pass out all the time.

[260] You started passing out all the time?

[261] Yeah, because of my neck.

[262] Like, what's going on into compressed discs?

[263] Well, yeah, totally.

[264] It's basically from my midback, from my midback is locked up.

[265] All just from carrying heavy weight.

[266] Heavy squats and heavy weights and heavy, yeah.

[267] I was squatting 410 when I was 14 years old.

[268] 410 at 14?

[269] Yeah, I cleaned your 260 in the contest, the 14 at 140.

[270] Wow.

[271] And how old are you now?

[272] I'll be 69 in two weeks.

[273] But so how old were you when you were saying that you lifted all that weight, the most recent?

[274] 63.

[275] 63.

[276] And that's when you were done?

[277] You're like, that's enough?

[278] Well, I was passing out.

[279] I couldn't pass out.

[280] I came off a platform, and I asked my friend, was the squad good.

[281] It was 735, and he said, no. I said, what was wrong?

[282] He said, you pass out.

[283] I mean, I didn't know.

[284] Then I was on Quirt Street.

[285] I noticed it's real dark, and I never recovered.

[286] So, but I made it through that meet.

[287] I made it through two meets.

[288] Did 1885 total.

[289] It was actually 37th in the world that year.

[290] Wow.

[291] And then, I mean, I thought I could actually total of 2 ,000 pounds.

[292] If I, I was doing training, which was squat in the eights.

[293] But because in these contests, you wear gear, and it takes longer, you're up and down.

[294] It's caused me to pass out.

[295] Now, have you ever thought about inventing something that would strengthen the rest of your spine the same way you did, the reverse hyper?

[296] I wish because I've got two devices that definitely work for the lower spine but I need something from upper right now I just went through a series of stem cell I don't know what you got do you get stem cell?

[297] I had stem cell in my knee both hips at my shoulder and I just yesterday had platelet injections in my knee and my hip I got to go back next week but I get nerve blocks in my neck you know I'd love to get my neck well but I think my also got kicked in my leg by a kid, a fighter, small one 135, and he screwed up my knees, so that didn't help me any.

[298] Why did he kick in the leg?

[299] I told him to kick me in the head.

[300] She didn't kick me in the head.

[301] Don't kick me in the knee, kick me in the knee, and basically must be a doctor or a hamstring right above my knee.

[302] Were you guys sparring or something?

[303] Yeah.

[304] Oh, okay.

[305] Yeah, I'm stupid.

[306] I do, so you still spar?

[307] No, no, no. I did.

[308] No, I could barely get around now.

[309] I mean, I had a fractured skull 13.

[310] A guy hit me in a hip of a baseball 13.

[311] And it broke a jaw and broke a ham.

[312] by 18 you know you didn't have them in me back then have you thought about inventing something that would sort of like strengthen the cervical spine and and lengthen it the same way the reverse hyper did you know i got involved of things i just we're going we're going to introduce a machine october 21st going to absolutely change the strength training as the world knows it's called a static dynamic developer it will change the world's static dynamic developer and what is that going do well it's like if i hold elbow and you you know i'll get pressure on your arm and slide the elbow in i have a machine that's going to hold you like i throw a punch hold it let it go by button hmm i'm not sure i understand you do uh judo you ever see judo toss for a guy they'll throw you in a crotch pad like one will hold you down while the air guy tries to throw and then the guy let's go yes same just like that what about i mean i have a machine that can do that Interesting.

[313] So you could pull, like, as hard as you can and can't budge me, and I release, if you throw me. Is it possible to develop something like a reverse hyper that works on some sort of a neck brace, like a similar type of movement?

[314] We've done reverse hypers with neck harnesses.

[315] Yeah?

[316] Yeah, where you're working the very top of your spine to the very bottom of your spine.

[317] Hmm.

[318] Now, how would that, so you do the reverse hyper.

[319] With a neck harness on.

[320] To people are just listening to this, what a reverse hyper is is like, see, a tape.

[321] If you put your upper body on a table and your lower body was suspended underneath the table, like hanging underneath the table, you would attach your ankles to this harness that's like a leg curl attachment, and you lift your legs up straight, and then when you let your legs down, it's pulling on your spine.

[322] So it's active decompression.

[323] Right.

[324] And what would you do with your neck?

[325] We put a neck harness on.

[326] So when you're down, when you raise up, when you raise your feet, we also raise our upper body.

[327] body and then so when we do that if you use the neck harness you're working the very top of your spine right up to the atlas all the way down to s i so would it be a neck harness like with weights on it yes okay so just like a regular neck harness like where you would hang your weights down you do like yeah so when you pick up your feet you pick up your head as well you know it down back and forth hmm that's interesting huh that seems like a great idea thanks joe yeah i bet you do Well, I mean, as soon as I saw that reverse hypermachine, I was like, well, how come this isn't used constantly?

[328] Because it totally makes sense.

[329] It strengthens the back in a very strange way.

[330] Like, I brought in a bunch of people that have had back issues, and they just try it once.

[331] And they go, whoa.

[332] I'm like, yeah, why the fuck is this thing not everywhere?

[333] Well, it's marketing, you know.

[334] Tom Berry here doesn't want marketing.

[335] But, you know, we're just starting, and I never tried to market.

[336] I didn't care.

[337] I didn't care about my business.

[338] I cared about my gym all my life.

[339] It's one of the most common injuries for people who lift weights or for people who grapple.

[340] I know a lot of fighters who have either have had dyskectomies where they take a chunk out of your disc or they're getting disc replacements now.

[341] A lot of guys are getting disc replacements because they've developed some pretty new technology in Europe where they have these articulating titanium discs and they just cut out all the gelatinous substance between the discs and they put this articulating mechanical disc in there.

[342] And guys are getting great relief And they're able to start fighting again Wow I know Rick Story has two of them In his neck Quite a few guys have had these things done Where their back was just too fucked up And they just couldn't do anything And so now they're actually replacing discs Yeah, that's what happened to me But with you, they wanted to fuse you, right?

[343] I had two doctors, 2005, but wouldn't operate on me So it's too dangerous Now it was 11 years ago Why too dangerous?

[344] I don't know, it was at Ohio State They sent me to two surgeons in Ohio State and you wouldn't operate on me And he wondered why it was because I was living on NyQuil and Tylenol P .Ns.

[345] So it was too dangerous because you were taking so many pain pills?

[346] No, they said at the time the procedures they had, they thought it was more dangerous not to operate on me than to leave me alone.

[347] But, I mean, they weren't going through.

[348] I mean, I've been trekked.

[349] I've had chest tubes.

[350] I have a thoracic outlet.

[351] I went to my doctor here in town.

[352] What's a thoracic outlet?

[353] Threatic outlets when a lot of people have open heart surgery, so you can't put your hands over your head anymore.

[354] I went to my doctor, you had me, put my hand over my head and raised my head, and my pulse stopped.

[355] Because it basically goes in and touches the carotid artery.

[356] What?

[357] Yes.

[358] So when you would raise your hands over your head, it would compress your carotid artery.

[359] What's causing it to do that?

[360] I don't know.

[361] Because it would push.

[362] Whatever is doing, it would just cut the oxygen.

[363] See, if you want to tap me out and just push our head backwards and I'll go to sleep for you.

[364] that sounds like power lifting sounds fucking terrible for you well you know if you grappled guys away once had me all your life I grappled of guys away 920 well yeah exactly what it's like right yeah you know if you want to unlimited tournament and you get some 285 pound monster on your ass same thing weights get bigger and bigger you burn a candle both in so you know the weights eat you live but you don't sound like you have any regrets whatsoever have no regrets if I hadn't been beat up and all my life I've never learned what I learned.

[365] You know, people make fun of me, so, oh, you broke your back in 73, you're broken my back.

[366] Well, you know, I have no bicep tore my bicep off in 70.

[367] Whoa!

[368] Yeah, tore this and off.

[369] It's knotted up right here.

[370] That's where your bicep ties into your forems.

[371] So both your biceps have been torn off?

[372] Yeah, and it never stopped me. I tore this and off totally, and they told me I was done.

[373] Six months later, I won a national championship.

[374] Third biggest total ever made.

[375] Pull that, let me see what that looks like again?

[376] So it's gone.

[377] It's gone.

[378] You have no bicep?

[379] No, right here.

[380] that's insane so you don't do curls I do very few curls you know curls don't matter for us curls for the girls that's right it's all extensions right all extension wow but that's how I learn you know how you're gonna learn so when you tore it you didn't even think about getting surgery to get it reattached I went to three surgeons two said operating one so if you don't care what looks like don't operate I said I'm not operating wow but you know I said six months later I made the third highest over and made my way class and then how'd you fuck up the other one believe or not when I told my pettel ten and a half.

[381] I'd never done curls like you said.

[382] Yeah, I retro my kneecap was over here.

[383] So I was doing curls and I tore my freaking bicep and Jim.

[384] I was so bored I couldn't hardly do anything.

[385] So you were so bored because you tore your patella and you said, well let me try these curls and then you wind up blowing your bicep off.

[386] That's right.

[387] I tore my to patella.

[388] I was literally on Lifting King because I was 43 at that point and I'd done about everything that I was going to do.

[389] And then so like four years later I had a kid who was training me. He's a world record holder 20 years old.

[390] In the bench 728, and I told him, I said, Kenny, I said, man, I'm going to come out of retirement.

[391] I squat 7 before you ever been 7 again.

[392] He said, oh, man, you don't ever have 7 pounds on your back again.

[393] That brought me out of retirement right then.

[394] I did 7, 8s and 9s.

[395] I was the second biggest squat in the world at 50 years old.

[396] At the fourth biggest total.

[397] Just because someone brought it up to you, like, Hey, you run your mouth, you know.

[398] The good thing, he means.

[399] made me do that, but he never did break that bench record.

[400] So I'm always thankful for, I'm very motivated by anything.

[401] I get motivated, I'm highly motivated a person.

[402] Now, you've also been real open about steroids, which I think is very commendable, because it's one of those things in the world of power lifting, the world of bodybuilding, and even in the world of fighting, it's a dirty dark secret that people like to keep to themselves.

[403] But your grandpa can take it.

[404] Yeah.

[405] Yeah, right?

[406] Yeah.

[407] I believe, in my opinion, there should be, you should pass the physical.

[408] No one has the right to tell you what they're doing in this world.

[409] When it comes time to die, I'm the one that's got to die.

[410] Someone's time for me to live, let me lead the life I want to live.

[411] But what do you think in terms of the problem with a lot of people have, the problem they see with using steroids in sports is it's going to force young people to use steroids to be able to compete with the people that are using them?

[412] They do it anyhow.

[413] Yeah.

[414] But if everybody's forced to be clean, then they don't.

[415] Like what we're doing now with the UFC, you wear like the USADA, the people that have stepped in, Jeff Novitsky running that program, the guy who caught Lance Armstrong.

[416] Well, actually, Lance Armstrong was never caught, right?

[417] He passed 25 tests for seven years in a row and never was tested.

[418] See, it's not against the rules that take drugs.

[419] It's against the rules that get caught taking drugs.

[420] That's a fucking loophole.

[421] Yeah, so if you got a good doctor, you're on the crash.

[422] half and I'm not.

[423] So that's why there should be no...

[424] Tyson Fury said, make it even play field, stop the drug test.

[425] I'd say the same thing.

[426] And we're not all born in seeing my testosterone.

[427] That's true.

[428] I mean, when I was a kid, if I was born today, I would be in prison.

[429] You're not telling me that these fights.

[430] All these, you know, some of those fighters have got way more testosterone than other fighters.

[431] That's true.

[432] They're not born the same amount.

[433] So the only thing, you could, why not, you know, training, you got a better, if you got a better, you know, if you could kick my ass, because you do jiu -jitian shit and I don't do any but I don't mean you're tougher me I just mean you had a better coach in me so are you cheating me that's a good point but if two guys do have the same coaches and they do have similar body types and one guy's taking steroids he's going to have an advantage right but isn't that pharmaceutical what are you look at you watch TV every five minutes you got a drug commercial one right every I'll be 69 let's take all the I'm 68.

[434] I'll be six on two.

[435] Let's take all the health medication off the 6 -8 -year -olds.

[436] I'll be the only one left on Earth.

[437] I don't have any ailment.

[438] Tom will tell you, my problem is I go to the doctor.

[439] You just know there's something wrong with me. There's nothing wrong with me. I just beat the crap of myself physically.

[440] I don't have high blood pressure, high cholesterol.

[441] I don't have anything.

[442] And so let's just take all the drugs away, but all the old 6 -8 -year -old guys die off his planet.

[443] I'll be the only one lit.

[444] For a guy like...

[445] For a guy like...

[446] For a guy like...

[447] you who's not competing.

[448] See, one of the arguments for fighting is that steroids allow you to do more damage to your opponent, and that that is one of the reasons why steroids should be illegal.

[449] It's because you can train harder, you have more endurance, and not just steroids, but things like EPO and a bunch of other stuff.

[450] You'll have more energy in a fight, and you could possibly land more blows, possibly wind up beating someone that you wouldn't be able to beat and do damage to them.

[451] So it's different in a lot of ways.

[452] but why wouldn't person take a sports for him?

[453] You know, it's called PEDs performance enhancing drugs.

[454] Why wouldn't you do that in sports?

[455] Well, because they would think of it as cheating.

[456] Well, who does?

[457] Well, a lot of people do.

[458] How many guys have cried their eyes out but they get caught?

[459] Then they cry like bitches and they lie.

[460] Baseball players.

[461] They never took drugs.

[462] You get caught and they cry like bitches.

[463] Right.

[464] That's what I don't like.

[465] Just tell the...

[466] I'll tell you, I'll never read the Bible, but I see them billboards on the freeway says, I shall not lie.

[467] Just quit lying and come out and say, I take droids.

[468] You know, the NFL, why would you be in a sport like the NFL?

[469] You know what drugs do is for recovery.

[470] Right.

[471] That's all it is.

[472] Right.

[473] You know, you take, I can give, much strongest people I've ever seen, I've seen weak guys take more drugs than anyone I've ever had, my gym.

[474] Really?

[475] Yeah.

[476] Drugs don't make you strong.

[477] You're born that way.

[478] You're born fast.

[479] You're born slow.

[480] You're born with an attitude.

[481] No, you're not.

[482] well that's the big misconception about steroids right is that they make you bigger the work makes you bigger it's the recovery right cause you to do recover to do more workouts right so everyone doesn't want to do workouts how be people you know say they want to be an mMA fighter until they get in a cage one time right they never get like coleman told me mark said he had a million wrestlers when he had hammer house here since they got armed barred one time they ever came back right yeah yeah but there's there's a mild benefit to take testosterone or a bunch of other stuff without doing any physical work but almost all of it is in the fact that you could put in more work and you recover far quicker than the average person yeah but see that way if everyone took it you're not cheating you know you know you got a you got a you got a corvette you don't have to put high test gas in right but don't you think that like it also but for young guys it can fuck up your endocrine system and fucks up your body's production testosterone so what so what so what that's what hcg's for it You got a smart doctor.

[483] Everybody takes HCG because your knuckles shrink up because if you take roids, you take tests, you take them more than Mother Nature told you so you're not shrink up.

[484] But there are morons anyhow because you took ACG, your nuzzles wouldn't shrink up.

[485] HCG.

[486] What does that stand for?

[487] You're in chirobic hormone.

[488] It raises all your hormones.

[489] But in sports, you cannot, there's no sportsmanship in sports.

[490] It mean you was to fight in front of a big crowd.

[491] Half the crowd would want me to knock you out and the other half the crowd will want me to knock you out.

[492] want you to knock me out.

[493] Is that sportsmanship?

[494] Well, that's just people.

[495] I mean, but that sportsmanship is supposed to be the athletes competing without cheating.

[496] I mean, if there was a pill that you could take that made you invulnerable, it gave you like a god pill, and you took it and you went into a fight and the other guy thought he was fighting a man, but you're invulnerable.

[497] No one can hurt you.

[498] You can't be hurt and you don't get tired.

[499] And you have superhuman strength.

[500] That's a good point.

[501] Would steroids still be illegal at that point?

[502] Well, it would be better than steroids.

[503] It would be like a super steroid, but I mean, wouldn't you think that that would be cheating?

[504] No. No?

[505] But, well, then nobody can beat anybody.

[506] You just beat the fuck out of each other and nothing would ever happen.

[507] Happen in hells right here.

[508] It all starts up in your brain.

[509] Man, see, I kind of could see how you can make that argument with other sports, but with fighting, I mean, fighting is about, because fighting is problem solving with dire physical consequences.

[510] I mean, that's what it is.

[511] And if you can minimize those consequences through drugs, a lot of people would think that that would be cheating i look at like this i look at the dyes brothers i'm guessing they got a lot of testosterone i don't know who in the hell their dad was but he must have a lot of testosterone well it's interesting those guys eat vegan and for the most part i think Nate eats fish and eggs too i don't even know if nick eats fish he might have in the past but i don't think he does anymore i think he's pretty much vegan which most people that eat vegan have lower testosterone because the substrate for developing testosterone is fats is like cholesterol and fats are one of the most important it's like when people get on ketogenic diets one of the more interesting things that happens when they consume a large amount of fats and saturated fats and cholesterol is that their testosterone goes way up right I should wait lichers on high cholesterol diets yes so I don't I don't necessarily know if those guys have high testosterone what they do have is high endurance their endurance is through the roof but a lot of that is because they participate in triathlons a lot of endurance running endurance swimming, biking, things on those lines.

[512] But you still have to have the brain thought to go kick someone's ass.

[513] Right.

[514] But don't you think that Rhonda Rousey has that brain thought too?

[515] She doesn't have any testosterone?

[516] I mean, she has some, but not a lot, you know what I mean?

[517] But more than the other girls.

[518] Yeah, but not more than men.

[519] How about sidewalk?

[520] Well, that's a little different.

[521] See, that's the argument for steroids right there.

[522] That's the argument because she actually has been caught.

[523] She's actually tested positive.

[524] And obviously, she's passing a test now, right?

[525] Yes.

[526] But you know as well as I do that when a woman takes male hormones for a long period of time, even if they get off of them, there's benefits that they keep forever.

[527] It's the same thing with men.

[528] Yes.

[529] And just because you're passing drug tests, I won't say who, but I trained a top international shot putter.

[530] He could go off Anabar in eight days and pass a drug test.

[531] IOC.

[532] See, that's just...

[533] It's only eight days you get off?

[534] Eight days on Anapar.

[535] So Anabar is one of the quickest ones to get off of, right?

[536] So, I mean, hell, I forget to take stuff.

[537] eight days.

[538] So the benefits unquestionably are permanent, or at least some of them are.

[539] What I think about, you know, what you're looking at, you're looking at a fighter's career as you see it in an envelope, and then when a day that tough fire retires, you forget about it.

[540] But what about the years later after a fighter's career?

[541] If he was on anabolic, he would survive the fighting years and be able to continue his older years like me. So what you're saying is that Well, longevity post -career, I totally understand that.

[542] A lot of fighters believe that as well, like testosterone replacement, growth hormone therapy for guys who have retired.

[543] But while they're competing themselves, they don't want to do anything because they don't want to think that the reason why they accomplish those goals is because they were taking drugs.

[544] I can shoot tons of roids in someone's ass.

[545] They ain't going to make them kick my ass.

[546] It's not going to make them kick their ass, but there's no question that some fighters fight better when they're taking steroids.

[547] Well, how about just a nutritionist?

[548] Let's just cut out the nutritionist.

[549] Yeah, but the nutritionist, look, everybody knows how to eat healthy.

[550] I mean, if you're eating healthy and you're training hard, but one guy's taking steroids and one guy's not, there's a giant advantage for the guy who's taking steroids.

[551] I just know too many people take steroids, and then he passed a drug test.

[552] That's all I'm trying to say.

[553] Right.

[554] I don't bring up any names.

[555] I understand, and I know you not.

[556] But that's one of the reasons why the UFC has instituted this incredibly invasive you saw the policy where they'll wake you up at 6 .30 in the morning.

[557] Oh, how'd you like that, watching pissing the cup?

[558] I don't like it.

[559] Exactly.

[560] But that's the only way to catch people.

[561] I just, I mean, I'll never go with the drug test.

[562] I don't think the NFL should have drug test.

[563] I don't think there's a good argument there, you know.

[564] First of all, it's a good argument for baseball, because baseball, no one's getting hurt.

[565] In the NFL, you can make the argument that you're able to hurt guys more, and then that damages them, and it shortens their career.

[566] But baseball, there's no argument.

[567] argument, in my opinion.

[568] Baseball is boring as fuck.

[569] And if, I mean, some people like it, I get it.

[570] But what I'm saying is, like, if you got a drug that lets you hit more balls over the fence, take that.

[571] That's the only thing interesting about baseball's home runs.

[572] I think you're going to sell it.

[573] So how do you let that sport get away with it?

[574] You know what I'm saying?

[575] Why not make it legal for all?

[576] You know, like, baseball's a funny thing.

[577] You know, if you hit less than 50 home runs, I guess you're drug free, but you start hit 51 your own roads, right?

[578] It seems like that's what the sport.

[579] And they talk about the steroid era.

[580] they were taking drugs in 1960s so who are they trying to kid were they?

[581] Yeah, in St. Louis, you know, as a football team, you know, the Raiders, I've heard stories or I think it's a document on the ESPN, they were going in and have V -ball tabs on the training table, all right?

[582] Well, you know, what I'd just say to the Raiders, well, the baseball team, the Oriel, the A's, the Athletics, what it's like, if they're in the same town, do you think, it's like sign these twins, you're having sex with one of the girls, you're having sex with both the girls?

[583] what if no one tested they knew football players were taking it right okay in Oakland but why wasn't why wouldn't the baseball players be taking it right down the street yeah they probably would but do you think that people were thinking of steroids as being like that kind of power being a crucial aspect of baseball back then I think what it was sure but baseball is more of a skill game don't you think did anyone ever test Mickey Mantle Roger Maris Hank Aaron you think Aaron was doing steroids?

[584] They had steroids back then?

[585] They had steroids in 1939.

[586] But were athletes taking them, though?

[587] Exactly.

[588] Yes, that's what I'm trying to say.

[589] If a football team was taking it, why wouldn't the baseball team take it?

[590] So we got these sports and outsures all geeks anyhow.

[591] They didn't have a goddamn thing in their life.

[592] Right.

[593] But they're also hypocritical and they got these ideas and they're probably on, they're probably taking, you know, testosterone.

[594] Testosterone therapy as it is.

[595] Yeah.

[596] I was at a paring me one time.

[597] And this doctors, they're a big, fat guy he's talking about how bad royds are so i'm just listening to him and then my friend says what's that patch on here he says oh it's a testosterone patch what kind of thinking is that i mean it's a very it's a true story well there's a lot of hypocritical thinking when it comes to that stuff for sure it's just it's it's an interesting debate and a lot of people think that you should be able to do whatever you want like the pride days during the pride days which in my opinion were some of the most exciting all -time mixed martial arts fights.

[598] Those guys did whatever the fuck they wanted and the Japanese literally told them, like in their contract we will not test you for steroids.

[599] They told them that.

[600] Look at horse racing.

[601] Yeah.

[602] Right.

[603] Dog racing.

[604] Yeah.

[605] But everybody, that's okay.

[606] So they just don't worry about that.

[607] Well, Equipoise.

[608] Yeah.

[609] Equipoes is Equa.

[610] It's like got a horse in the fucking title.

[611] Yeah.

[612] I mean, and that's something that people take and it's a hormone for steroids for horses.

[613] Exactly.

[614] Now, Now, so you don't think there's anything negative.

[615] But there's obviously got to be some drawbacks of steroids, right?

[616] I went on antibiotics in January 1970.

[617] 1970.

[618] 1970.

[619] And so what is this?

[620] Yeah.

[621] I've never been off.

[622] You've never been off in 46 years?

[623] No. That's insane.

[624] No. You just stay on them?

[625] That's right.

[626] No cycling?

[627] Why would that go off?

[628] um to tell everybody you're off them i guess exactly and i go out there and tell the truth i don't lie do people get upset of you that you're so honest about it i don't give a damn of the upset of me but i'm just curious and he's never come up except accounts and self -respecting i don't give hell about these geeks they're not doing crap right they suck when they were kids they suck when they're middle age they suck when they're old that's how i look at it our damn prison i'll be on royd The whole country, but we wouldn't be putting our world wouldn't be in the shape of us in a day if they had some nuts.

[629] But if they had nuts, they wouldn't need steroids, right?

[630] Because the nuts shrink.

[631] Let's just say some aggression.

[632] Right, some aggression.

[633] My friend was a psychologist, and he would test people in prisons, rapists and murders.

[634] He said he had tested some.

[635] Had 25 times the rate testosterone a normal man does.

[636] 25 times.

[637] That's why I say, you know.

[638] How is that even possible?

[639] Well, why are they out there raping people?

[640] Why are they killing people with, you know, no remorse?

[641] Because they got an enormous amount of tests.

[642] He said that he saw that's why they probably did it.

[643] He didn't, you know, you know, you can't do that stuff.

[644] He realized that, but he thought that's why they would be on a course to do stuff like that.

[645] They're just absolutely crazy.

[646] You take, look at elephants.

[647] You know, these elephants, what do they call it when they, they just ease out of testosterone around, killing each other and knocking down villagers and everything.

[648] So the world needs more of that?

[649] well i think it needs more because look at uh you know what when i was a kid there's 10 % gay now they say there's 34 34 % who the fuck says that my colleges i believe it there's no way do many boy bands oh there's no way is 34 % gay 34 % oh man okay well i'm sure someone well they got testosterone because look at geoffrey dommer he's out there killing people well he was gay too yeah that's what i'm saying but i don't I don't think, I don't necessarily think that's a testosterone thing, right?

[650] That's a sociopath, psychopath thing.

[651] Who knows?

[652] I'll say that.

[653] Well, I don't think, well, I'm not talking about the gay part, the other part, eating people.

[654] Yeah, crazy ass.

[655] I mean, but that's not a good argument for testosterone.

[656] If you're saying that prisoners and rapists and murderers have a lot of it.

[657] Everybody's got a lot of opinions about roids, but I've seen probably a thousand people on roys over the years.

[658] Right.

[659] Okay.

[660] Maybe more, right?

[661] That's right.

[662] The ones who took the most drugs were not always the strongest.

[663] Actually, the strong guys didn't take that much.

[664] And a lot of them, and then, I mean, lesser guys take a ton of shit, but they just can't.

[665] They're just not strong.

[666] Well, isn't there also a point of diminishing returns where, like, taking too much of it throws your body out of balance, to the point where you're not going to recover correctly, because your body's constantly dealing with this?

[667] And it makes you crazy.

[668] Right.

[669] You can't concentrate.

[670] Yeah, that's a real problem that people don't want to admit that Roared Rage isn't a real thing.

[671] I've seen it.

[672] It's real.

[673] It's 100 % real.

[674] I don't think there's such thing.

[675] Roy Grades.

[676] You don't think so?

[677] Well, you said it makes you crazy.

[678] Yeah, but I don't seem to a little.

[679] If a little guys, you know, there's plenty of fighters who would fight a 300 -pound guy.

[680] Because they're just crazy.

[681] Because they're crazy.

[682] Right.

[683] You know, it's not because their own roy's, they're fucking crazy.

[684] Right.

[685] But when people are taking too much steroids and it makes you crazy.

[686] A little guy's not going to jump on a big guy and get his ass great, you know, because of Roy grace.

[687] He'll do it because he was born that way to do it.

[688] You're born.

[689] There's two kind of people, praying predator.

[690] you'll find out which one you are real quick You're a prey or predator Lou you're in this like Very insulated world in a lot of ways Right?

[691] Because you're constantly around these savages You're constantly around dudes That are just fucking lifting crazy heavy weights Very manly men A lot of guys are doing steroids A lot of guys are lifting weights Like that's your world Like this is the type of people That you surround yourself with A lot of people that are listening to this right now Like this guy's fucking crazy Who's this guy with no biceps and been on steroids for 40 years.

[692] Like, this guy's a maniac.

[693] I don't know.

[694] I mean, I was born to do something, and I did it.

[695] I've never strafened away.

[696] I've done one thing all by life.

[697] I'm going to do it to the day I've done.

[698] I'm not ever going to quit what I do.

[699] Every day I'm going to try to make me better or someone else better.

[700] That's what I do.

[701] That's the only thing I've ever done, and I'll never quit it.

[702] Well, for a guy...

[703] If you was in my gym, I would find a way to make you a better grappler.

[704] I believe you would.

[705] you would.

[706] Yeah, that's my job.

[707] I believe you would.

[708] Now, being 68 years old, if it wasn't for all your debilitating injuries that you've gotten from lifting crazy amounts of weight, you look great.

[709] I mean, you look very healthy.

[710] Very healthy.

[711] Like, you have energy, you're very, you know, you're on top, you're on the ball when I'm talking to you.

[712] Like, do you attribute a lot of that to taking steroids?

[713] That it gives you that energy?

[714] If it went for testosterone, I mean, Lord, I'm not saying I might be dead, but I mean, I wouldn't be sitting here.

[715] You wouldn't be talking to me. you wouldn't know who Louis Senons was what I mean I grow up my back in 73 I had no training partners I was on crutches for 10 months every day I'd get down in my basement I looked at a mirror, had a mirror in an AM radio and looked in that mirror and said how am I going to get better what I've got to do every day I'm to this day I mean I can't go until I mean you just can't pass out and kill me and two guys with me you know so that's what got me out of my sport anybody who's listening to this thing here's that pounding on the roof that's your Ohio rain folks metal ceiling on the roof so it's nice for us in California we don't get any rain ever it's nice to be down here get some rain so what stuff do you take right now yeah just testosterone just testosterone what have you taken normally when I've been trained I would take a dynamable tabletas you know I just did test you talk about ecopoise I like echo poise what about human growth hormone Human growth hormone is a waste of time doesn't work It's a waste of time how so?

[716] Well you know You know, I took growth hormone, as human growth before HIV came out, and right out of cadavers.

[717] It's called Kress Korman.

[718] Right.

[719] That's the stuff that came out of people's brain.

[720] They took it out of pituitary glance, right?

[721] That's right.

[722] Well, then when they made synthetic growth hormone, they never made somatomiton.

[723] Somatometin triggers somatropin, which is growth hormone.

[724] Somatomiton, what is that?

[725] Samatomitin, what is that?

[726] Somatomitin, what is that?

[727] They never made synthetic somatomitin.

[728] I mean, people take growth hormone.

[729] How many people you know take growth hormone?

[730] If you take growth hormone, you take growth hormone, you take growth hormone, you You have to eat around.

[731] A guy at your size, you probably have to do 7 ,000, 8 ,000 hours a day.

[732] You have that blow sugar attacks one after another.

[733] People don't do that.

[734] Why?

[735] Because it doesn't work.

[736] And it knocks body fat off.

[737] You see people losing body fat?

[738] No. It's a joke.

[739] It's a more, what's the word, placebo effect than anything.

[740] So you don't think it helps people recover from things?

[741] I don't think there's anything.

[742] I took tons of it.

[743] I've been prescribed it.

[744] I have a fake shoulder.

[745] A fake shoulder?

[746] Yeah.

[747] What's going on with your shoulder?

[748] I had to have a shoulder replace it Wow okay it froze Had a frozen shoulder had to replace this one And then So I got tons of growth for them I had to get him growth from one I just gave it away It was a waste Wow Doctor should study you It seems like everything Everything that's ever gone wrong Contest with a fake shoulder Really And what in what exercise?

[749] Bench press You bench press over 500 with a fake shoulder.

[750] Did doctors I did 24 reps 100 pound dumbbells.

[751] 24 reps, 100 pound dumbbells.

[752] Jesus Christ.

[753] That's insane.

[754] It's in the mind.

[755] Is that what you're saying?

[756] It's all in the mind.

[757] You know, there's a book Fighters got, I don't remember his name.

[758] It's called Pain, Rade Don't Matter.

[759] Pain ready don't matter to me. I'm so freaking used to pain, it don't matter.

[760] But a fake shoulder, like, I don't, I mean, are you supposed to be able to lift that kind of weight in a fake shoulder?

[761] Like, did doctors tell you'd be able to go right back to train?

[762] I had it done by the doctor, the name is Dr. Miniochi.

[763] He was the Cleveland Brown surgeon at the time.

[764] And he basically gave me no instruction.

[765] I left the hospital that day out of recovery, and I did my own therapy.

[766] He gave you no instruction.

[767] He said, all right.

[768] He knew.

[769] He literally, it was new at the time.

[770] He kind of wanted to see if it would hold up.

[771] My buddy Morris was the string coach with the Browns.

[772] He said, this guy is crazy, you know.

[773] So they wanted to find out this thing would hold up.

[774] And it must have held up.

[775] because I mean, you know...

[776] And it's still okay now?

[777] Yeah.

[778] You see the scar and you see the scar if you don't believe me. Oh, I believe you.

[779] And so when you got your shoulder replacement, how long did you wait before you started lifting heavy again?

[780] I started benching in one week.

[781] I started a brimstick in one week.

[782] That's so crazy.

[783] How much were you benching in one week?

[784] Not a broomstick.

[785] But in three months, I benched 300.

[786] that's so crazy that's crazy well in that case I gotta think steroids helped you're recovering that's right well that's one of the best things for it right is recovery for injury and that's one of the best arguments for athletes nuts too you just can't sit around the doctor tell you don't do nothing for eight weeks that's why don't go to doctors 90 % of them out of being a lake because they're quacks you know they're surgeons that's all they know they don't know nothing but they're experts on everything Thanks.

[787] I don't listen to a doctor.

[788] Well, that's one of the best arguments for steroids is post -injury recovery, right?

[789] It was for concentration camp victims in World War II, 1939, where antibiotics came on.

[790] For concentration camp victims.

[791] That's right.

[792] When people come out of concentration camps, it's a prisoner war.

[793] That's what they made, anabolic.

[794] That was the first thing they made them for.

[795] Well, it's really good for people that have, like, wasting diseases.

[796] Exactly.

[797] Same thing if you're in the prison and work camp.

[798] And give you some sort of vitality back.

[799] Yeah.

[800] Yeah.

[801] So when you see guys that get injured and you see them try to do things without steroids, like especially injury, like injury recovery, I think that's one of the best arguments that like maybe when an athlete blows a knee out or something like that and gets surgery, they really should be allowed to use that kind of stuff.

[802] How many athletes do you think they are in America, professional athletes, all total?

[803] A thousand or 1500, probably more.

[804] There's a couple million older men taking testosterone replacements.

[805] So that's my argument.

[806] Why would you not let us?

[807] an athlete what is the difference right that's what I just said but I don't care if you if you don't want to take them fine with me I don't give it any you want to eat a protein shake you don't want to eat right I don't care well when it comes to eating right like what kind of what kind of diet do you subscribe to I really don't describe I eat eggs and meat in the morning and I eat pretty good you know what I mean I eat a lot of chicken and rice I'm not into the good food I've seen people eat real clean they have no aggression So, like a lot of bodybuilders, you know, if he's super clean, it seems like I have no aggression.

[808] And, you know, if you're, like, what I do, outside of thumb, punches or kicks, it's a fight.

[809] And you've got to fight these big weights.

[810] Right.

[811] You got to stare them down, you've got to lift them, and you've got to do it over and over and over, just like, you know.

[812] Intent, a lot of intense aggression.

[813] That's right.

[814] Yeah.

[815] Now, do you think that that's the lack of cholesterol on the diet, a lack of fats?

[816] It may be because I've just seen, I mean, you know, I've been around too many, you know, people of body.

[817] builder.

[818] Also, they were the one that had the side effects.

[819] If you get around like the only guys that have no facial hair or no body hair, it seems like those were the ones that I've known so of the years that have those side effects.

[820] A little bit of drugs will give them side effects.

[821] And other people, you know, he always talk about taking stuff for a guy to come out.

[822] I've never taken anything.

[823] I've never needed anything.

[824] For gyno?

[825] For when...

[826] Yeah, you get a real tough looking guy.

[827] He'd never have any problem taking role, because they've already got testosterone.

[828] It's not a, it's not something new to their But guys who get gyno, it's just because they have a ridiculous amount of testosterone, and then your body starts producing estrogen to balance it out, right?

[829] I think they're high on estrogen anyhow.

[830] Oh, so you think it's just...

[831] Exactly.

[832] Huh.

[833] Because I've seen guys of big, thick beers, rough kind of guys, you know, have no problem.

[834] You don't have any problem.

[835] I'm just telling you what to see.

[836] Right, no, I get it.

[837] And I put it in a lab, I'm only telling what I've seen in my...

[838] And through my jam in the years that I've seen guys, the guys that get whacked out on drugs, where the guys are very, you know, not thin in them, but almost kind of bit.

[839] Now, when the person who doesn't power lift or people unaware of the sport, and they think of a bodybuilder doing the same kind of things that a guy like you would do, that's what they think.

[840] Oh, yeah.

[841] But that's not the case.

[842] No. It's not in close.

[843] What is the big difference between bodybuilders and power lifters?

[844] Bodybuilders is a hyperpathy sport.

[845] They do high repetitions, and they, you know, they eat different, they take other things different to get very big.

[846] And then we don't want to get big.

[847] We're just like you.

[848] We want to stay in the smallest weight class we can and get as strong as we can.

[849] There's the saying big ain't strong, strong and strong.

[850] So we just want to be strong.

[851] So everything we do is not to build larger muscles.

[852] Like I work with track people, mostly girls.

[853] We don't want to put 10 pounds of extra body weight on much 10 pounds of extra weight to have to overcome gravity run down a track.

[854] Right.

[855] So we keep your body weight to the minimum, you know, the muscle mass. We just want to make it stronger.

[856] You don't have to get bigger to be stronger.

[857] That's confusing to a lot of people.

[858] because a lot of people think of big muscles meaning stronger, and that's the only way to get stronger.

[859] But I've seen some people in power lifting competitions that just lift insane amounts of weight, and they're not that big.

[860] Well, how is that possible?

[861] A muscle type.

[862] You know, you're always talking about you, I've always mentioned you a few times you talk about like a woolly.

[863] He's old muscular, he runs out of gas real quick.

[864] Who?

[865] Tyrone Woodley?

[866] Yeah.

[867] He has, you're playing in the same.

[868] They've got pretty much the same amount of muscle mass. He just has very fast twitch muscle.

[869] And another guy, you're talking about endurance, may have more slow -twitch muscle.

[870] And so that guy, that's why he can fight five rounds in Tyrone, where it starts more out, somewhere in the second round.

[871] Well, it's also because a guy like Tyrant is capable of putting out so much energy.

[872] Like the way he can attack guys and move so fast, it's like having a 500 -horsepower engine versus having a 400 -horsepower.

[873] One's going to just use more gas.

[874] That's right.

[875] Well, it's fast -o -consumer.

[876] That's why you've got sprinters, and you've got marathon runners, and it'll totally.

[877] different.

[878] Yeah.

[879] And so when someone looks at a bodybuilder and they see this guy's just covered in muscles, they assume that guy would be able to lift a ton of weights.

[880] But for the most part, those guys can't lift nearly as much weights as a guy like you can.

[881] No. That's crazy to people.

[882] Like, that doesn't even make sense.

[883] Well, like a lot of things are crazy to people that aren't in and know.

[884] Yeah.

[885] I think about what we're mentioning about those antibiotic steroids.

[886] Does it frustrate you that this lack of understanding that the general public has about this stuff?

[887] Absolutely.

[888] You know, you ever look at the Olympics?

[889] We look at our weight lifters, Olympic weightlifters.

[890] We don't go to the Olympics.

[891] I hope we never do.

[892] Hope Powerlifts are never getting the Olympics.

[893] They're saying the worst lifters ever.

[894] But they said our Olympic weightlifting team is pretty bad.

[895] We can't get a guy on the 18.

[896] All right.

[897] And they're just not very good.

[898] You look at our women in gymnastics people.

[899] They're extremely strong.

[900] They blow everybody out of the water.

[901] You go to China.

[902] Their male weightlifers and female are tremendously muskular, and they kill everybody, but their gyms look pathetic.

[903] It's because they're all in different systems, you know.

[904] You've got better coaches and better systems to take stuff.

[905] So American doesn't have good Olympic powerlifters?

[906] Olympic weight lifters.

[907] Weight lifters.

[908] We rule the world power lifters in this country.

[909] American weightlifters are not very good.

[910] They're not.

[911] No, terrible.

[912] Really?

[913] No. I did not know that.

[914] There was one girl what got a bronzing.

[915] Olympic, one girl got a bronze.

[916] In my sport, there's 12 male weight classes we hold seven of the total records.

[917] My gym holds two.

[918] In women, there's 10 way classes.

[919] America holds 9 of the 10, and my gym holds 5.

[920] I have the strongest male, power lifts that have ever lived period, and the best, and the strongest female.

[921] In the very same gym.

[922] Now, what about shit like those strongest men contests?

[923] Oh, well, they're strong -ass guys.

[924] Yeah.

[925] But that's a different thing entirely as well.

[926] It's It's a different thing.

[927] Like, boxing's different than him in Maine.

[928] Right.

[929] You know, Muay Thai is different than boxing.

[930] You never, you know, a Maitai guy that's going to win a world boxing championship.

[931] Right.

[932] And vice versa.

[933] Well, I think it has happened.

[934] Thai was, what the fuck is his name?

[935] Oh, there was a kid, though.

[936] Lippet gold medalists in Thailand.

[937] Pakiya.

[938] I think you said in New York, he might have been a, um, um, um, um, Muay champion.

[939] Is that right?

[940] Oh, Chris Algieri.

[941] Yeah, that's right.

[942] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[943] Yeah, he was a kickboxing champion one time, too.

[944] Good footwork.

[945] Yeah.

[946] Footwork, that's amazing.

[947] So, what the fuck is his name?

[948] I forget his name.

[949] But he was the guy that, he's the guy that John Claude Van Dam was always supposed to fight.

[950] John Claude Van Dam pretends he's going to have a fight, he's going to have a kickboxing fight with this Thai guy.

[951] Oh.

[952] But that guy won a world title as a Muay fighter and as a boxer, but that's pretty rare.

[953] But I agree with you.

[954] Yeah.

[955] But now, like, what would be the difference to see, like, if you see, like if you had a guy coming to you that wanted to win like a strongest man competition that seems like something that would be right up your alley because you're so good at preparing fighters and understanding the different demands of different sports my friend in finland's name's car he's got four guys in that gym of deadlift over 900 and they're all strongmen and he does a lot he trains a lot of strongmen all right i'm not the end of that but he told tom and i that one thing he sprinted with thousand pound wheelbarrels thousand pounds on wheelbarrow we do a lot of wheelbarrow work and also they carry heavy yokes and that's two of the primary things that get them to be strong in what's that yoke a yoke a yoke's thing putting in your back and you walk around with it like if you walk around us we do an enormous amount of walking with bars with bands and chains hanging off so it's unstable because that's what you have to be right you got to be stable in an unstable environment so they walk a half a mile stuff like i don't know that's what it gets so is that why you like wheelbarrels because it's almost like a deadlift that you kind of walk with And you've got to control it.

[956] Like Dorian Price, a real good multi -fighter.

[957] Dorian thought that really helped his plum.

[958] Clinch, yeah.

[959] That makes sense.

[960] So did you come up with the idea of using wheelbarrow?

[961] Use the whirlbarrel in 1990.

[962] And it's just something that looked to you like a good, unstable platform.

[963] Yeah, and it builds up your extreme industry building up your back.

[964] And grip, you know, you've got to have a grip.

[965] Right.

[966] So, you know, most of you guys got great grips anyhow.

[967] But it builds up grip.

[968] and it builds up all your muscles and you're walking.

[969] See, you know, a lot of guys do strength and conditioning.

[970] I believe it's got to be combined.

[971] You don't have that much time because fighting is a tremendous skill.

[972] You need all your, I mean, the world's strongest man ain't the damn the MMA champ, you know.

[973] So I believe you've got to strength and condition at the same time.

[974] That's why we do so much outside walking.

[975] We're doing heavy, carrying objects walking, so we're conditioning and string training.

[976] Do you pay any attention to Marius Pugianowski?

[977] Oh, sure.

[978] You know what he's doing now?

[979] He's fighting MMA.

[980] Oh, I knew he did.

[981] I didn't know he's still doing it.

[982] I remember when he went to a strong man. He went to that.

[983] Yeah, he hasn't given up.

[984] He's been doing it for quite a long time now.

[985] And he's actually beating some pretty good guys at this point.

[986] He knocked out Hollis Gracie in the first round.

[987] He lost to Tim Sylvia, but that's a fight that he never should have taken.

[988] But, you know, Tim Selvia is a big giant former UFC heavyweight champion.

[989] But, you know, you see Tim, Tim's got, like, a lot of body fat on them.

[990] he's not like the most gifted athlete in terms of like, like Randleman is like a freak athlete.

[991] He was when he was alive, rest of peace, he was a great guy.

[992] I love Kevin.

[993] But he was probably one of the biggest like natural genetic freaks I've ever seen.

[994] Tim's not that.

[995] Tim's just hard work and dedication and just toughness.

[996] And he beat the fuck out of Marius Pugnowski.

[997] It's kind of funny when you see the two of them together.

[998] I might have sold that fight.

[999] Yeah, he might have.

[1000] But he started He started out kickboxing, didn't he, before he even went into, I think he kicked boxing when he was a kid.

[1001] Puginowski?

[1002] Yeah.

[1003] Did he?

[1004] Maybe.

[1005] He went on a straw man somehow.

[1006] He was a boxer?

[1007] Boxer.

[1008] Boxer.

[1009] Boy, do you not believe it when you see him hit the pads when he was starting out.

[1010] It was like, you know, how big he was.

[1011] Yeah, it's almost like, you know, he's weighing himself down, like throwing weights all over his body and trying to move himself.

[1012] It wasn't.

[1013] But my point being, he's actually transition has become a legitimate professional.

[1014] MMA fighter who's, you know, beaten some guys.

[1015] He's not bad.

[1016] I mean, he's not, no one's going to say he's a threat to the UFC heavyweight title, at this point in time.

[1017] But it's interesting to me because he's still 300 plus pounds.

[1018] He's still a massive, massive guy.

[1019] And he's fighting all these events are all places where I don't think they test him to, which is interesting too.

[1020] Tim Sylvia, when he was at his best, when he won the title against Rico Rodriguez, was on some shit.

[1021] But he looked so different back then.

[1022] He didn't look like a doughy sort of heavy guy.

[1023] Overring.

[1024] Overeux is the best example.

[1025] Uberim.

[1026] Yeah.

[1027] When Overeem came to the UFC, when he fought Brock Lesnar, and you know, it was kind of the wild west of testing.

[1028] Back then, all you had to do was pass the post -fight test.

[1029] That's it.

[1030] It's all you had to do.

[1031] Which was, you know, like you were saying, if you take Anavar and they just get off it for eight days, you're clean.

[1032] you know but the effects were obviously still there you know exactly you know i mean anvars always been the drug of choice for a collegian wrestler you know way back years ago because the fact it gets out of your system so quickly no because it keeps your body weight down you want to take the difference with bodybuilding um they take drugs that um you know that uh on low calorie diets that he can maintain muscle mass see that's the difference and you know if i think there's only one kind of anabolic why is a bodybuilder look like they do and why is the why they look different if they're taking the same drugs is the training is totally different yeah that's one of the power intake is totally different one of the big dirty secrets about vegan bodybuilders like almost all vegan bodybuilders are taking something and the reason being is because of the fact they're not getting enough cholesterol they're not getting enough saturated fat in their diet and so your body just does not want to produce that kind of muscle mass so those kind of guys are almost all taking something in order to put that kind of mass onto their body you know see we I train two Olympic gold medal springs.

[1033] I've trained all kind of people.

[1034] So it's not like it's a bit around power lifting.

[1035] I mean, everyone I know, you know, we'll get back to the drug test.

[1036] You ever think about the Olympics to see World Records at the Olympics?

[1037] World Records, right?

[1038] Yeah.

[1039] Well, if we're breaking out of the World Records is drug -free, why do you need drug testing?

[1040] Maybe one of your callers call me up and tell me that one.

[1041] Well, because they're passing the drug test.

[1042] Right.

[1043] Well, they're also catching them from previous years now.

[1044] You hear about the Russians.

[1045] There's two guys from 2008.

[1046] They got their gold medals pulled from them.

[1047] Oh, yeah, that's bullshit.

[1048] It's bullshit?

[1049] Yeah.

[1050] It's bullshit because you think other people are doing it, too.

[1051] Of course.

[1052] But Russia has a very sophisticated anti -doping program that's state -run.

[1053] Oh, Americans are virgins?

[1054] No, I'm not saying that.

[1055] Yeah, exactly.

[1056] But America, I don't think, is so blatant about their endorsement of drugs.

[1057] I think America kind of.

[1058] knows about it, but they can't come out and say it or come out and If you're overseas, the fan just wants to know what place you got.

[1059] They don't care how you got.

[1060] You don't think they care?

[1061] No, of course not.

[1062] Overseas.

[1063] No, because it's done by the state.

[1064] Jesus.

[1065] It's done by the state.

[1066] Right.

[1067] And that what the problem was, Russia was guilty because it was state -funded drug administration.

[1068] I mean, they're doing the same thing everywhere.

[1069] Well, not does that rushes killing the scientists.

[1070] All the scientists to know about it.

[1071] A giant percentage of those guys have been shot in a fucking head.

[1072] Have you been reading about that?

[1073] No. Oh, they're dropping like flies.

[1074] Yeah, all these got, because once Russia got in trouble, they were in danger of being eliminated from the Rio Olympic Games.

[1075] You know about that, right?

[1076] They did.

[1077] Yeah.

[1078] Well, no, they didn't.

[1079] They allowed them in.

[1080] No, there was no weight lifters.

[1081] They forgot how many people, a couple hundred, the Russians did not go.

[1082] Oh, really?

[1083] And you know, yeah, and a girl here in America, that's a high jumper, I think, or a poleballer, was tested 33 times in three years.

[1084] That's bullshit.

[1085] Wow.

[1086] That's total bullshit.

[1087] I had Victor Conte on my podcast.

[1088] You know who he has?

[1089] The Balco guy?

[1090] Of course, I know who he is.

[1091] Yeah.

[1092] Yeah, he pushed all the Reuters ever, and then he's a drug tester.

[1093] Well, now he's an anti -drug.

[1094] A mass murder.

[1095] Yeah, okay.

[1096] He's reformed.

[1097] Oh, of course.

[1098] He's here for peace now.

[1099] Exactly.

[1100] Yeah.

[1101] He's an interesting case, right?

[1102] Because he was a guy that had developed a designer steroid that was undetectable.

[1103] Which they still have.

[1104] You think they still have those?

[1105] How they break in World Records and not bunk in the drug test.

[1106] You know, I was born at night, Joe, but it wasn't born last time.

[1107] See, I was.

[1108] And I like to believe that people are just hardworking folks who eat, right?

[1109] You just keep believing that.

[1110] Yeah.

[1111] Do you think it would be better if everybody just came clean and everybody just did whatever they wanted to do?

[1112] Exactly.

[1113] I really do.

[1114] I think you know why is your dad, why possibly is your father going to an aging clinic and taking testosterone growth hormone?

[1115] If it was that damn bad, your dad wouldn't be going there.

[1116] There's a couple million people.

[1117] I know you're a stat guy.

[1118] There's probably over 2 million people doing that annually.

[1119] Why are they doing?

[1120] That's a good point.

[1121] It certainly helps you.

[1122] And your brain function and everything's better.

[1123] It really is.

[1124] You're dry, your muscle, you've got more muscle, you've got better bone density, you've got better sex drive, you get better dry period.

[1125] My mind has never changed.

[1126] That's my whole freaking problem.

[1127] My brain's never changed since I was like 16.

[1128] So your brain still functioned at the same rate?

[1129] That's the same way.

[1130] And you think a lot of that?

[1131] You ever get around a person and you just look at him and go, I'm going to kick your fucking ass.

[1132] Because I don't know why they just, sometimes they get like cat brain.

[1133] I just want to punch them out.

[1134] I can't do that.

[1135] Do you think that's Royd rage?

[1136] It's not Royd rage.

[1137] It's just when I was born.

[1138] I was that way when I was 10 years old and I'm that way now.

[1139] I just see sometimes just go, I want to, and you know it's weird because I can get around an old man and no threat or nothing to me. I go, I want to punch this guy in the face.

[1140] I'm serious.

[1141] I mean, I know it sounds, but then I go, I can't do that.

[1142] I know I can't do that, but I'm going, oh, fucking.

[1143] Because they're annoying.

[1144] Or some women.

[1145] I want to choke his bitches.

[1146] Jesus Christ.

[1147] You say, one more word, I'm going to choke your ass.

[1148] I mean, but I don't.

[1149] There's enough in my brain to say, no, you're going to go to jail if you do that.

[1150] Yeah.

[1151] But that's how I've never changed.

[1152] Right.

[1153] And I don't know if that's a, you know, sometimes I think, gee, I wish I'd change and be a little bit mellow like I'm supposed to be.

[1154] Well, a lot of 68 -year -old guys, they're slowing down and they don't have a lot of zest for life.

[1155] Grandpa turns into Grandma.

[1156] Yeah.

[1157] It does happen, right?

[1158] Yeah, it's right.

[1159] usually not kind of weird too that you can go to like any kind of a you know nutrition store or vitamin store and the shelves are filled with muscle builders and recovery this and growth hormone that and fake test classrooms yeah well and a lot of them turn out to be steroids that's true but then it's against law well it is against the law but usada has a page and when we had novitsky on the podcast this is when i found out about this i was blown away because they have a list what was it like it was over a thousand And like more than a thousand different products that have steroids in them that people are buying under the guise of just being some natural muscle builder.

[1160] There you go.

[1161] So there's probably thousands of people here in America and say they're against taking drugs, but they're taking drugs.

[1162] Right.

[1163] Well, there's certainly a lot of people that, well, you know, there's a lot of people that are taking drugs and they don't want to admit they're taking drugs.

[1164] Like people want a drug -free America, but they want to drink beer and they want to drink coffee and they want to smoke cigarettes.

[1165] All these things are drugs.

[1166] That's right.

[1167] Right.

[1168] Yeah, I've said that you go to a football game like a Ohio State.

[1169] You've got a hundred thousand drunks take, you know, boozed up and smoking cigarettes watching 22 athletes on the field that are clean.

[1170] That didn't make any sense.

[1171] They can't drive out the parking lot.

[1172] No, so do you think that even for high school athletes that, like, steroids are a good idea?

[1173] I think when you're able to vote, you'll be able to do anything you want.

[1174] I'd say to 18 years old.

[1175] But if you could drink, why couldn't you take Roids?

[1176] If you're, you know, I mean, I still believe it should be the draft.

[1177] I think that's what's wrong for America today.

[1178] There's no draft.

[1179] There's not enough people that have a father figure in this country, and I think if they won in the Army, you'd really have a father figure.

[1180] I was, I actually was a block tender 12 years old.

[1181] I tended block during summer vacation, and then during school, the guy would pick me up and I actually knock holes out.

[1182] That thing there's called a knockout.

[1183] I would knock out these blocks and put it in a wherebrel and take it out.

[1184] What's a block tender?

[1185] What does that mean?

[1186] A block tender.

[1187] I carried block and mixed mortar.

[1188] So cement block?

[1189] Yeah, 12 years old.

[1190] 12?

[1191] It's 12 years old.

[1192] I started working 12 years old.

[1193] I got a Social Security card 12 years old.

[1194] That's right.

[1195] Wow.

[1196] That's how I grew up.

[1197] And I grew up by, if I want to make money, I got to work.

[1198] No, I had nothing.

[1199] And, you know, my parents had money, but they party.

[1200] They were party animals.

[1201] And so I didn't get nothing.

[1202] I bought everything I've ever owned since I was 14 years old.

[1203] No one's ever given me nothing.

[1204] people you know these guys day I pay them to lift you know if they make if they broke world record or get on our board down there they get money I never I would never take any money I never took nothing these guys get protein they get free gear I never took nothing I own anybody anything when I die I won't owe anybody anything so you think that like by saying that the draft exists like forcing people into the military forcing them to serve would at least give them some discipline and give them like make them understand what hard work really is.

[1205] This country has no discipline.

[1206] You know, what's going on with the police force, you know, in America today, it's just a lack of, it's just a lack of common sense.

[1207] And I mean, authority, they don't have, he don't represent authority.

[1208] I grew up, I remember when I was, I used to play baseball to help people to story.

[1209] I was like 12 years old.

[1210] And we played this game.

[1211] If you hit a ball out of the yard, you're out.

[1212] But if hit inside the yard and got the second scored, you got a, you score to run.

[1213] It was just you against me with a neutral pitcher.

[1214] And I slid in the second base.

[1215] I was 12 years old, and my neighbor was a high school senior.

[1216] I remember he probably like 220 pounds.

[1217] And he gets up and he said, you're out.

[1218] And I said, I'm safe.

[1219] And he slapped me as hard as he could slap me. And he goes, you're out.

[1220] I was out.

[1221] I couldn't kick his hat.

[1222] That's how I grew up.

[1223] A pecking order.

[1224] No one knows what a pecking order is.

[1225] You know what a pecking, know where you are.

[1226] But is that good for society to have that kind of a pecking order?

[1227] We wouldn't be ran over by all these countries right now if we had a pecking order.

[1228] Look at the pecking order.

[1229] order now they're all you know you go to school because you got bullied you know i got kicked out of school in the first grade okay not for a day i got kicked out for the first grade um a kid stole my shoe i'm on the time my dad said hey this guy stole my shoe was on the other side the club is here on each side and he says well i tell you what he says if you tell me that tomorrow i basically i'm too you basically said if you tell me this one will kick your ass so i go to school kid tries to take my shoe i punch you and get in a fight with them teacher breaks it up, I end up punching the teacher.

[1230] So they take me down to the principal's office and they said, you're kicking you out of school.

[1231] So my mom says for how long he said, we're kicking him out of school.

[1232] I'm in the first grade.

[1233] So we moved across town over here on the west side of Columbus, you know, west side of barber.

[1234] But he wouldn't let me in school.

[1235] I had to set it on a freaking year.

[1236] I didn't start to school that I seven years old.

[1237] Wow.

[1238] From punch to a teacher.

[1239] That's right.

[1240] What kind of teacher can't take a six -year -old punch?

[1241] Exactly.

[1242] Especially back then.

[1243] Yeah.

[1244] That seems ridiculous.

[1245] But I still think, but, you know, no one has, you know, there's no trades in America.

[1246] You know, they're talking about this now.

[1247] No one, you don't have any tradesmen.

[1248] If they went in the Army, at least you get two years, you can get a couple years of college, free education or something.

[1249] Get something from the government instead of a handout from the government.

[1250] Well, some people think that it would be that mandatory military service would be good because then they would realize the consequences of war.

[1251] They would really understand it, like Israel does.

[1252] Like Israel, everybody has mandatory military service.

[1253] their patriotism is at a very high level because of that because they realize like they're all connected in this giant army when the army goes to war that literally is them i believe the same thing i just think it would change and i think you know like i said this country's so sick you know your kids are bullied they got these things because your kids bully well you know i'd rather be the bully than to be bullied i bullied everybody i could and the bigger people bullied me that's just the is that good though I know my role I know where I was good in society I wasn't a little bitch and acting like I run my mouth to you and you touch me you know what I mean I go call to cops right you beat my ass up fuck that guy beat my ass up that's just the way it goes I mean I got 13 teeth okay how you think of how you that's why I got 13th from right of my mouth and I don't have no regrets I don't have no regrets they taught me lessons Was that the only way to learn lessons, though?

[1254] I think it's a damn good way.

[1255] I think it's a good one.

[1256] You can't think you're something that you're not.

[1257] Right, that's true.

[1258] That is a problem.

[1259] You know, just know what you really are.

[1260] That's all matters.

[1261] Well, I think a lot of people think there's something other than what they really are because they're not tested.

[1262] Because they're not, you know, how many people in this life go through difficult physical struggles on a regular basis?

[1263] It's one of the main things that human beings, especially, men.

[1264] One of the main thing that men lack in life is very difficult physical struggles to test your character.

[1265] Exactly right.

[1266] But being a bully doesn't test your character.

[1267] Well, somebody's got to be a bully.

[1268] What's all UFC fighters?

[1269] In the cage.

[1270] Well, once they get in there.

[1271] But that's competition.

[1272] I know, I mean, I know they're great guys outside the cage.

[1273] You know, Matt Brown, you know, they're all nuts.

[1274] He's a great guy.

[1275] They get crazy looking eyes real quick.

[1276] He's got crazy eyes.

[1277] Yeah, you fuck with Matt Brown.

[1278] That's a big mistake.

[1279] But, I mean, that's a real, that's a test.

[1280] And you've got to be tested.

[1281] Yes.

[1282] You know what?

[1283] I can say the old thing.

[1284] It don't matter if you get knocked down.

[1285] Can you get back up?

[1286] Yeah.

[1287] Not that I've got back up two million times.

[1288] I never, you know, I don't give a damn.

[1289] I mean, honestly, it don't matter.

[1290] You know, like I always said, like if Kevin Rammel would beat my ass?

[1291] Well, so what?

[1292] He beat 100 other people's ass.

[1293] I'm just that long list.

[1294] So if he beat my ass, would I feel bad?

[1295] No. Kind of feel honored.

[1296] Oh, I got Kevin Rennelman that kicked my ass.

[1297] Well, that's because you could overcome that kind of shit.

[1298] You've been through shit like that before.

[1299] You understand what.

[1300] it's like to have a bad moment in life and it's not going to wreck you.

[1301] You either brush yourself off.

[1302] Yeah.

[1303] That's the problem with people when their children get bullied and they send them some kind of school because they're bullied.

[1304] I would be embarrassed.

[1305] And my father sent me because I got bullied I mean, I blew my own brains out.

[1306] Do you have kids?

[1307] No. I should have never had kids.

[1308] I never had kids.

[1309] Wow.

[1310] How did you manage to get through without knocking up one check?

[1311] My wife didn't want to have kids and I didn't want to have kids and she grew up pretty poor and like four or five brothers and her mom raised her because her dad got killed in the car record too and I never wanted kids and I mean my life's full okay I don't have time for kids I wouldn't have time to be a good father I knew that so why would have kids well that's a very rational way of looking at it I've been married like 43 years and I manage to do that because I date a lot that's a smart way looking at it do you have like when you look at your life I mean, at 68 years old, you've accomplished so much, they have this great reputation in powerlifting and, you know, just in helping people and athletes, especially in MMA.

[1312] I mean, when I talk about you, the MMA fighters who know you, you have a fantastic reputation.

[1313] I mean, people just, they just nod their head and like, that guy's the shit, you know, he knows his stuff.

[1314] Do you have goals at this point in your life?

[1315] Yeah, I still got goals because we've got to keep a couple of products who I want to get out before I die, you know.

[1316] I've got a mechanical reverse hyper that you talk about it should be in hospitals over the world a mechanical one so it does it without you lifting weights is that the idea i could put you stand you up and it will put you in place it can move your legs back and forth if you get well then it would assist it then it would you could resist it it would it would have resistance so for someone who's like maybe two uh weak to actually lift the weights up themselves exactly like if you couldn't move your legs this is your legs i can move your leg you say okay that's it okay that's it then week after week until we finally get that full range of motion once we gain full range of motion then we could put a resistance, mechanical resistance, for you picking up two pound, three pound, or whatever.

[1317] But the static dynamic developer I'm coming out was going to revolution on a string train for every sport.

[1318] Well, I'm interested to see that.

[1319] Do you have that here?

[1320] No, we've got it on film.

[1321] We can show you a little bit on film.

[1322] But when you feel it, you would not believe it.

[1323] Yeah, I'm very curious.

[1324] I'm very curious to see what that's like.

[1325] Yeah, and I've got one more book coming.

[1326] I'm writing a track book right now, and I'm pretty much done with this.

[1327] I'm going to discuss in the editor and have it.

[1328] Track and field?

[1329] Just a track Not field, just track For sprinting and long distance And just about developing strength For developing strength and reducing injuries There's so many injuries Now what about an MMA?

[1330] Do you think there's a way to reduce injuries in MMA Through power lifting?

[1331] I think they're far too much Really?

[1332] Yeah I think he's far a little bit too much probably And then I used to talk to guys Way back in the military camp was big And the guy because it was 95 % A fight Yeah You know he would go there He was a K -1 fire and he said, and I think you've got to slow some of that down because, you know, they say in boxing, it's the fights that don't get you, it's a sparring.

[1333] Yes.

[1334] So get someone to sparring, work on skill and, you know, work on your skill.

[1335] Well, it's interesting to say that because that's the trend now.

[1336] Donald Cowboy Soroni, who's never looked any better than he does right now, and he's on a tear.

[1337] He said he stopped sparring.

[1338] He doesn't spar.

[1339] He says, all I do is do drills.

[1340] He goes, I already know how to fight, or I know I'm tough.

[1341] He goes, I don't waste myself in the gym.

[1342] We have the greatest squatters bar ever in the history of the sport, and we don't.

[1343] squat.

[1344] We settle on boxes.

[1345] We don't do regular squats.

[1346] What do you mean?

[1347] We sit down in a box.

[1348] We're sitting on a chair.

[1349] We're back and then stand buck up.

[1350] That's how we do all we're training until we go to a contest.

[1351] Then you've got to do a squat.

[1352] We don't do any regular deadless with a rope, a bar, and real weights.

[1353] None.

[1354] And our top five average is 890 and top 10 is 866.

[1355] So what do you do if you don't do regular deadless?

[1356] We do bands over the bar in power racks.

[1357] We use two or three different.

[1358] Bands over the bar being an elastic bands.

[1359] It's 220 pound attention.

[1360] Like if you picked up, you know, 200 on the bottom, you stand up as 440.

[1361] Right.

[1362] Okay.

[1363] Or we got stronger bands.

[1364] We use all the different kind of bands and we just do a lot of stuff like that.

[1365] So what that means to people that are listening to this, when you have these elastic bands on the bar, it makes it more difficult when you get up to the top of the range of motion.

[1366] That's the same with chains too, right?

[1367] Yeah, it's better than chains.

[1368] It's called accommodating resistance, but it builds tremendous acceleration.

[1369] If you use a lot of band, you have tremendous acceleration.

[1370] to the very bottom because you know you have to outrun the bands right right so yeah you have to outrun the bands and then when you get to the top it becomes more difficult so you when you have just a regular deadlift or a regular squat it doesn't have any of those bands at the end you have more horsepower exactly huh so you don't do any regular squats or any regular deadlift and you think that that helps you're at that preserves athletes as well the greatest squatters the greatest male female pilfer we had a number one number two greatest squad of all time and i've got a 165 i think it'll become he's going to beat a great squad of all time i think he's about 955 pounds of 165 955 pounds at 165 that's insane he's done 890 he did that easy that's incredible you keep him out of jail oh he's crazy yeah a little bit how weird wow what's to say he's we'll just say he's crazy i understand yeah well i would imagine well i mean I mean, isn't that the case with almost anybody who's, like, at the very top levels of anything?

[1371] Normal people only give you normal results.

[1372] Ooh, that's a good quote.

[1373] That's a good quote.

[1374] That needs to be a meme.

[1375] That's right.

[1376] Normal people only give you normal results.

[1377] And I don't need normal people.

[1378] Yeah.

[1379] That's an interesting way of looking at it.

[1380] Well, I mean, that's what I was saying before, that you're kind of insulated, because you're in this world of savages, you know, like in your attitude about things.

[1381] Like, this is not an attitude that most people have.

[1382] In 2016, everybody's worried about everybody's feelings.

[1383] everybody's worried about being sensitive.

[1384] You know, this is the time of toxic masculinity.

[1385] People are worried about masculinity.

[1386] Strange, right?

[1387] For a guy like you?

[1388] Isn't it strange?

[1389] I think the world screwed up, man. You know, I told Tom to buy all these books from my strong men back in 1900, and they all look like MMA fires today.

[1390] Men don't look like that today like they did back then.

[1391] Long before roids, they look like they were loaded to the gills, and there wouldn't eat Roy's back.

[1392] You know, probably food was better, maybe, I don't know.

[1393] But they all had an attitude, and everybody looked like to kick your ass.

[1394] So, I just, I don't know.

[1395] Like I said, the world's too soft, man. It's got to be hard.

[1396] You know, you can't have an easy life, because once things get hard, you're screwed.

[1397] Well, you're not accustomed to it.

[1398] I see that in my sport.

[1399] I watch guys who accelerate them so fast, and it gets hard to quit.

[1400] Be like in a fight, so I'm done, I just quit.

[1401] Right.

[1402] A tap.

[1403] I am.

[1404] I'm out of here.

[1405] You know, punch me in the face one time.

[1406] I'm done with that stuff.

[1407] Right.

[1408] And it drives me insane because we work hundreds of hours to get these guys super, super strong and then they quit.

[1409] But doesn't that make you appreciate a guy like a Matt Brown or someone like who is like a legitimate savage?

[1410] I got a lot of respect for Matt Brown.

[1411] I got a lot of respect for all fighters.

[1412] I mean, you know, any fire, I don't care what level, but they get in the USC cage, I got a lot of respect for them.

[1413] But in 2016, that's a rare type of person, right, in this ever softening world.

[1414] Don't you think that's why MMA is.

[1415] so popular because everybody wants to be that, but they don't want to go through that work.

[1416] It's also they recognize how unique it is.

[1417] They recognize I mean, there's a lot of people that I'm friends with that like MMA, that they don't have those qualities themselves.

[1418] So they appreciate them in other people.

[1419] That's exactly what I'm saying.

[1420] Yeah.

[1421] I've always admired a fight.

[1422] I'm a huge boxing fan like Triple G and guys like that.

[1423] Me too.

[1424] So Roman Gonzalez, classical boxers.

[1425] I mean, I like the classic because, you know, you go try to do it's not easy to do.

[1426] That footworks is insane.

[1427] Oh, yeah.

[1428] And everybody thinks, oh, that's just a brutal, even boxing, that's a brutal sport.

[1429] And they think him and maize, I don't know what they think that is.

[1430] But dude, there's a lot of, so much technique.

[1431] It's more technique than anyone would ever really imagine.

[1432] It's ridiculous.

[1433] You know, another thing that fighters are getting into a lot lately is yoga.

[1434] That's a big one.

[1435] Did you ever mess with that?

[1436] Well, no, I haven't.

[1437] I probably should.

[1438] I know Matt was doing yoga, right?

[1439] Hot yoga.

[1440] Yeah.

[1441] We got some track girls to do hot yoga.

[1442] They say it's really, really good.

[1443] Well, it's a great thing for your back.

[1444] That's one of the reasons why I brought it up.

[1445] up.

[1446] It's amazing for like lengthening your spine.

[1447] There's certain decompression exercises that you do in yoga where you grab like the bottom of your heels from underneath and you're pulling and straightening your legs out.

[1448] You literally feel your back on like pop pop pop pop pop pop pop.

[1449] I do it all the time and I can feel my back especially like in the middle.

[1450] I feel it's separating and it makes like a little pop almost like you're getting adjusted by a chiropractor.

[1451] Is that something you would recommend to your athletes?

[1452] Is that something you might?

[1453] If it's not an advantage, it's a disadvantage, it's a disadvantage.

[1454] Anything of a person, I want them to do.

[1455] Now, what about other kinds of therapy, like cold therapy, ice baths, cryotherapy, things on those lines, saunas.

[1456] I've had prototherapy, you know, stem cell, platelet injections.

[1457] If you could think of it, I've done it.

[1458] I want you to get in, I don't want your cat, your readers to hear everything I've done because they would probably have me locked up.

[1459] Like, what have you done that would have you locked up?

[1460] I've used R -stink and Strychnine injections.

[1461] What?

[1462] Strychnine Arsenic, strictine Arsenic and strychnine Why would they inject you with poison?

[1463] Because it raises your red blood cell cap I've used Nitro glycerin cream Nitroglycerin cream Yeah Because you know It'll stimulate blood flow I'm going to start your heart up Right And I use it because I broke my back And I didn't want to admit I brought my back the second time So I use it And I told my friend who was a professor At Ohio State And says don't go to where I'll see what this does I mean I was raised it beat for three hours It felt like you were hitting me in the head every heartbeat, just hit me in a temple.

[1464] But I've done it all.

[1465] There's nothing I haven't tried.

[1466] I did electric stimulant.

[1467] It's called Mega Wave.

[1468] It lengthens out the muscles.

[1469] Tom did it for, what, 15 seconds?

[1470] I did it for 96 minutes.

[1471] What does it do?

[1472] It lengthens out the muscles.

[1473] Literally straighten out your leg right off the ground.

[1474] It's electrocuting you.

[1475] And for six minutes segments, and I did 96 minutes.

[1476] So it's electrical muscular stimulation?

[1477] Yeah, but it lengthens it.

[1478] Yes, and I should never do.

[1479] done it because i think i've got too many injuries you know and um it basically tore it popped my uh my hips and my shoulders out of socket what yeah it popped my hip bone six out of it's the night right here it's my hip bone oh you're crazy your your whole body's like a walking medical encyclopedia of injuries you know you got to try it right yeah i guess what the road warriors say desperate men do desperate things yeah now um i've been very desperate over my life what's what's worked the best for you did stem cells work out well for you well i'm fine it out because what has been about three weeks i get stem cell in both hips and my knee and my shoulder and what's wrong with your hips oh this from squatting right just beating the crap out myself it's all torn out i mean i'm short and it's right real wide so all your powers right here just like for fighting so it's just all wear and tear wearing and do you feel any different so i think it's starting to work.

[1480] See, I wasn't allowed to take anti -inflammatories.

[1481] I've been on anti -flemptor's this 1991 because I didn't really die.

[1482] See, when I tore my knee off, I'm allergic to anesthesia.

[1483] So I went back in.

[1484] It gave me a spine.

[1485] Jesus Christ.

[1486] Yeah.

[1487] So I went back in and gave me a shot to sit and calm me down for surgery.

[1488] Take the wires out of my knees out of my knee and it put me in sleeping.

[1489] He gave me on stage it.

[1490] So I ended getting tricked.

[1491] Like I'm jumping around and there's ticking chest tubes in me. And And that really, that's how I got thoracic outlet.

[1492] They severed my intercostal nerves.

[1493] They severed your intercostal nerves.

[1494] Yeah, I've had at least five or six doctors tell me that's exactly what they did.

[1495] Oh, God.

[1496] And he stuck the chest tubes in me. So at that point, 91, and I'm going to tell you about my gym, and this is why the training partners I had.

[1497] I did stuff with 50 no one's ever done, and this is how, because I was in intensive care for about four days, and I was in hospital with three more.

[1498] And I got, I didn't need a trache.

[1499] I could talk because I was training on my life.

[1500] So they take my throat shut, you've got to hold this big.

[1501] I got stitches in my side.

[1502] They take me out of the hospital to the gym.

[1503] That's on Tuesday.

[1504] Well, that suddenly I'd go to the gym, and I go, I walk.

[1505] On my own crutches, they got my knee, you know.

[1506] They find out around my knee and says, you're maxing out, you know, motherfucker.

[1507] And I says, what?

[1508] And they laid me down.

[1509] I've been street 55.

[1510] Who are they?

[1511] Who's they?

[1512] My training partners.

[1513] They're out of their fucking mind.

[1514] Exactly.

[1515] They tried to kill me. Dave takes me. He tried to kill me. But that's what you've got to have.

[1516] You've got to have people like that.

[1517] They drove me to the point that when they told me to, if they told me to, they kicked me on my own gym if I didn't do it.

[1518] They just tell me to mail the renan.

[1519] That's just so ridiculous.

[1520] But that's what a training part.

[1521] Mail the renan.

[1522] That is so ridiculous.

[1523] Well, I understand your attitude now.

[1524] You know, if you don't have an attitude, you don't have anything.

[1525] Yeah.

[1526] I've had some great results with stem cells.

[1527] I think stem cells are probably going to help you quite a bit.

[1528] You ever have it in the neck?

[1529] No. Oh, okay.

[1530] I just had it in my shoulder, I had it in my knee, and in my hip.

[1531] Okay.

[1532] But the big one was my shoulder.

[1533] Man, my shoulder, my hip was just a minor soreness that I was like do it preventative.

[1534] And I definitely had an impact on it.

[1535] My knee, I just had an on and off pain for years in my knee.

[1536] It completely cured that up.

[1537] And my shoulder, it healed it like nothing I've ever done in my life.

[1538] Wow.

[1539] Yeah, I got for the brink of needing shoulder surgery to no pain at all.

[1540] Well, this shoulder, it gives out of place every, freaking day.

[1541] They got to put my, I separate my shoulder and say, I got a big guy puts it in every day, so I'm hoping.

[1542] Every day.

[1543] I can be put in every day.

[1544] What pops it out?

[1545] Just, it's strained.

[1546] I mean, just strained ligaments and tendons, I think, over the years.

[1547] So it's not even anything you're doing physically, not even lifting weights?

[1548] I think it was just a constant wearing and tear.

[1549] You know, I mean, it's just like playing pro football, you know, I mean, but I've done this for all those years.

[1550] I mean, you know, I mean, I was a nice record holder in 1971.

[1551] Wow.

[1552] And then, so in 2003 or four, whatever, I didn't know where it was, 2005 or something, I was still top ten.

[1553] Wow.

[1554] So do you do any exercise at all now?

[1555] Yeah, I train just small crap.

[1556] Like, what do you do have?

[1557] I got so bad.

[1558] Because my knee was so bad, but I want to get back where I can deadlift.

[1559] I love the deadlift.

[1560] And deadlift, you know, just kick your ass.

[1561] I mean, if you can deadlift, you can still fight.

[1562] Right, right.

[1563] And someone attacks me. Right, right, right.

[1564] Which is quite possible.

[1565] Because the way you talk.

[1566] I have to hear this podcast.

[1567] Kick any old woman's ass.

[1568] Bring him on.

[1569] Wow, that's amazing.

[1570] Strong words.

[1571] So, like, when you lift weights today, like, are you lifting maxing out?

[1572] No, I mean, I just getting some exercise.

[1573] And, you know, because I, I mean, my thing was squatting the deadlift.

[1574] I just, you know, top 10 squatter right off in my, you know, almost my first meet.

[1575] But, I mean, when the neck, if you're going to pass out, you just have to, you know, if it comes to time, you just got stuff.

[1576] Now, when you're talking about doing the reverse hyper with that neck, neck harness on.

[1577] Does, is that help you?

[1578] We actually do a bunch more severe thing.

[1579] We do neck deadlift out of my bell swap machine with a neck harness.

[1580] What's a neck deadlift?

[1581] Well, you put a neck harness on this machine and you squat over you, you stand up.

[1582] Oh, so you're doing your deadlifted just with your neck?

[1583] With your neck.

[1584] How much way do you doing that with?

[1585] On that machine, whatever, the machine weighs I've done about 40 pounds, which is a whole lot.

[1586] Yeah, 40 pounds is a lot to be hanging off of your neck.

[1587] Yeah, plus the cage.

[1588] Right.

[1589] 10095 pounds 95 pounds are you still doing that yeah it seems to make me feel better it makes you feel better it makes your neck feel better yeah that's interesting because that would be like counterintuitive a lot of people would think that a lot of people think you shouldn't lift any weights with your neck like I talked to Kelly starred about it you know that eight way neck machine you know that thing he says don't ever do that it's bad for your neck and then I've talked to other people who are athletes who are fighters that's one of the best things you could do for your neck you got that's so too in the NFL the problem.

[1590] They don't train their neck anymore.

[1591] Remember how big everybody's neck was?

[1592] Yeah.

[1593] What do you do, Russell?

[1594] If you was real big, what do you play football?

[1595] You don't see that anymore.

[1596] The neck is the two most vulnerable pieces you're lower back in your neck.

[1597] Right.

[1598] No one trains them.

[1599] Because they're afraid to.

[1600] Right.

[1601] Well, that's what I keep hearing, that it's bad for your neck to lift weights with it.

[1602] Which seems so weird because it's not bad for your lower back to do deadless.

[1603] It's not bad for your lower back to do like reverse hypers or Roman chair sit -ups or anything like that?

[1604] No, I think a guy called Paul Innes, he might be in a strong machine who never lived way back in the 50s, but he thought the neck was the most neglected muscle, and it should be the most used muscle, because what happens to us, we have bad necks.

[1605] Yeah.

[1606] Because if you don't do anything, we'll get bad neck.

[1607] So do you think, like, it's a real issue with grapplers.

[1608] Like, grapplers almost always get cervical herniations.

[1609] Do you think that a lot of that could be prevented if you just strengthened up your neck?

[1610] Exactly.

[1611] Yeah.

[1612] Well, you know, my friend John Sater, I mean, to this day, 60 -something, he gets out and does neck bridge is for five minutes and does 500 hindus squats he's in the 60s 500 hindu squats in a row that's right that's insane he does that he gets out of bed and he does that every day five minutes at neck bridge and 500 hindus squats that's amazing that you do them in a row i could do 200 in a row and then my fucking legs turn a rubber wow i got to step up my game 500 wow and how old is he i'd say 62 or 63 is he on the shit uh i don't know you don't know you don't I don't know.

[1613] You don't talk to older guys?

[1614] I don't talk to other people.

[1615] He's an actual judic coach for seven years.

[1616] Oh, okay.

[1617] That's, well, that's a big one for grappling.

[1618] A lot of old school grapplers in particular love the Hindu squads.

[1619] Yeah, but that's amazing that they can still do neck bridges and everything like that.

[1620] And is that age?

[1621] Yeah.

[1622] I mean, he's a black belt in judo, samba, jiu -jitsu, and his black belt and Japanese more time.

[1623] He still trains?

[1624] He trains all the time.

[1625] Wow.

[1626] That's amazing.

[1627] he just had some hip surgeries but he's back to know i think he can roll around a little bit so wow hip surgery and replacement or what that's another real common one mark coleman's got a hip replacement too so common a hip replacement um see i go up to the shoulder but everything else lasted that's interesting way past everybody else well what they're hoping now is that through the use of stem cells that your body's going to be able to regenerate tissue in a lot of areas where it couldn't before and that's going to prevent a lot of replacements and a lot of surgeries and a lot of things They think that sometime in the future, that stem cell -based therapies are going to eliminate a giant percentage of surgeries that people have.

[1628] I hope so.

[1629] That's why I did it.

[1630] Yeah.

[1631] No, I hope so, too.

[1632] I'm curious, I mean, if anybody's a canary in the coal mine, it's you.

[1633] Yeah, no shit.

[1634] We'll find out one time.

[1635] I get well.

[1636] I want to lift.

[1637] I want to deadlift.

[1638] I'm going to go to meat and deadlift.

[1639] So you just want a deadlift until you drop?

[1640] Yeah, that's what I do.

[1641] I don't know anything else.

[1642] well is there anything else you want to say to all the people listening out here no just uh no just good luck and don't be afraid to try you know keep trying never give up people give up man they give up and no one should give up well listen man you are a very unique character and i really appreciate you taking the time to sit down with me and do this and i've been wanting to talk to you for a long time and thank you so much for making that machine because that machine has helped me so much it built so much strength in my lower back and gave me so much relief from lower back issues that I had.

[1643] I have one in my studio.

[1644] Before I do the podcast Jamie, I'll tell you, I'd do that fucking thing all the time and anybody who's got a lower back problem, I go, come on, come on back.

[1645] And I show them it, and I'm like this thing, get it, put it in your garage, you need one of these.

[1646] Yep, it's great.

[1647] Well, man, I really appreciate you coming here.

[1648] Really appreciate it.

[1649] Thank you very much.

[1650] Big fan.

[1651] Thank you, sir.

[1652] So we're going to take out, check out your gym.

[1653] Let's go for a little tour of the gym.

[1654] We'll make a little video of that.

[1655] And thanks, man.