S1 E5: The Devil is a Good Liar

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] This podcast is intended for mature audiences and could be triggering to some.

[11] Please use discretion when listening.

[12] I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is Something Was Wrong.

[13] There had been a rift in their relationship with my fiancé.

[14] Shortly after we got engaged, they took me to dinner one night.

[15] And I, yes, after we were engaged.

[16] Yep.

[17] And I remember thinking, this is weird.

[18] So we meet for sushi, and I remember thinking, why is he not here?

[19] Why is he not here?

[20] He's now my fiance.

[21] We're a unit.

[22] Like, why is he not here?

[23] And my dad pretty much presented me with all these questions.

[24] He just said, we have questions, but we recognize that we're on the outside looking in.

[25] But let me present you with what the outside looks like.

[26] you can fill in the pieces.

[27] And I'm like, fair enough.

[28] My dad said, this started off with promises of a piano.

[29] And I'm like, oh, dear Lord, you know, going, here's why, you know, I don't have a boosendor for piano sitting in my front room already.

[30] We've chosen to pay things this way.

[31] And it's a long year plan.

[32] Like, why are you getting stuck up on some random dream he had that I don't think should happen anyway?

[33] And he's like, okay, okay, okay, well, you know, because I started getting defensive.

[34] I'm used to having to explain away my parents' concerns.

[35] And so my, they are also like, okay, what about this wedding dress you were supposed to be flown to New York for this friend of his?

[36] And I'm just like, oh my gosh, that was Kimmy's thing.

[37] She shouldn't have promised that because now they're in London, they can't help it.

[38] They can't fly me out to New York when they're not even there.

[39] My mom's just like head tilt, head tilt, you know.

[40] And I'm just like, well, you guys chill the heck out.

[41] First of all, why didn't you bring, why didn't you invite him to this?

[42] But the way the conversation started was my mom came to me and asked me, hey, are you and I okay?

[43] Because I've always had a very close, very open relationship with my mom.

[44] And lately, I had been distancing myself and she had sensed things were different.

[45] So at first she didn't want to get in the middle of it because she thought, well, my daughter's never planned a wedding before.

[46] She's probably busy.

[47] Sure.

[48] But over time, she would notice, there were a couple of major misunderstandings that I would look back and go, oh, yeah, shoot, my bad.

[49] I realize that that could have hurt my mom.

[50] And usually there's some junk to come up in the wedding planning process where people have to apologize for things.

[51] So my mom was like, hey, on this one day, were you mad at me?

[52] were you upset?

[53] And I went, oh my gosh, mom, I'm so sorry.

[54] No. And I would tell her exactly what happened.

[55] And she'd go, oh, I'm so sorry.

[56] And it was great.

[57] It was good.

[58] So I thought, okay, my guard came down.

[59] As I thought, I'm so glad that you asked me to dinner to figure this out.

[60] And now I see why you didn't include him.

[61] This didn't have anything to do with him.

[62] But then it turned into, okay, can you answer some questions about him?

[63] We've got some pieces that are not getting put together.

[64] So I answered their questions, and I walked away going, okay, good, we got that cleared up.

[65] Why couldn't he have been there?

[66] When we met up with her, Greg and Rose, to have the first conversation about, did these things add up to you?

[67] The dinner that he wasn't invited to?

[68] The dinner he wasn't invited to.

[69] And he got upset.

[70] How dare you?

[71] Yeah.

[72] Dinner with your own daughter.

[73] Up to that point, it probably wasn't a week go by that we didn't see him.

[74] And get texts.

[75] And then after that dinner, we didn't see him for weeks or hear from him.

[76] Which was scaring me because I thought, uh -oh, he's offended.

[77] Now how do we get close to him?

[78] How do we watch him?

[79] How do we stay within the vicinity, you know, keep our ears open?

[80] Because now he's offended.

[81] And now he's pulling her into that offense a little bit.

[82] Because when I talked to her about it, I said, I'm really sorry, honey, but you're our daughter before you're his wife.

[83] And it's kind of our job to make sure that, you know, this guy's a good guy.

[84] And she said, well, I can understand where he said, If you take, you know, a guy and you've heard his ego like this and she used, you know, some of his words that he fed her.

[85] And I thought, uh -oh, uh -oh, he's pulling her away.

[86] Like I could feel her pulling away.

[87] And I thought, okay, now this is, this has never, ever happened.

[88] I've never had that kind of distance with her.

[89] If I did, I wasn't aware of it.

[90] We've always been really close, always been able to talk.

[91] And we've had our normal mother -daughter stuff.

[92] but never have I felt her pull away and I was feeling her starting to pull away closer to the wedding and it's understandable if he's upset with us and we called him up I arranged for him to come over while I watched his dog and then called him to come home so that we could talk about what happened at the dinner and again he was very at that right here in his room everything we said oh yeah no I understand And, yep, yep.

[93] So we're clear.

[94] Everybody's clear.

[95] We're just trying to protect Sarah.

[96] And, you know, we're not trying to accuse you anything.

[97] We just things don't line up.

[98] We want to make sure they make sense.

[99] And if Sarah's good with him, then we're good with it.

[100] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[101] All good.

[102] He left.

[103] It was not good.

[104] Oh, he did say in there, well, and he wouldn't look at him.

[105] He looked down and he said, well, a brother should go to a brother.

[106] And he says, you're not my brother.

[107] Like, you should have come to me. Why would we go and tip our hand to you?

[108] we want to go to her and see if these things make sense.

[109] Why would we tell you what we're skeptical about so that you could defend it?

[110] Because you're pretty darn good at it.

[111] You know, but he did not understand us taking her aside.

[112] I said, once you get married, that would be different.

[113] We would go to you.

[114] But you're not married yet.

[115] She's ours before she's yours.

[116] Knowing what we know now, I know now why he was as mad as he was.

[117] He's being found out.

[118] So, of course, being open, Kimmy's texting me that night Kimmy started saying hey what's going on and I was like well honestly I don't know what to do so I told her my parents took me to dinner and I don't know how I hand you know they're just kind of concerned about some things so but she was the one who started to pitch it as your parents kept him out of it and put this on you and then I thought how dare my parents so now we've got this rift of you guys mishandled this and now you've broken his trust because he feels that he has I mean he drove up remember he had driven out to answer questions.

[119] He had let himself get grilled at dinner.

[120] He had laid himself before them.

[121] It was the perfect storm.

[122] My parents went behind his back and didn't trust him enough to just ask him a few simple questions that had very simple answers.

[123] So obviously, none of the work he's put in means anything to them.

[124] When in reality, my dad's like, my dad, classic military, you know, no, honestly, it doesn't.

[125] You're still my daughter and I owe him nothing.

[126] That was my dad's response, which is, amen.

[127] I know.

[128] But in the moment, I love this man. I'm about to commit my life to him and I want my parents to respect.

[129] Well, you're all about your husband.

[130] Yeah, exactly.

[131] So I'm like, dad, go straight to my future husband, not to me, but it's Kimmy planting these ideas saying this isn't biblical, this isn't biblical, blah, blah, blah.

[132] There was just enough little grains of truth that I kind of threw it all in together and like my parents are the worst, you know, kind of a downside of being over sheltered or protected or, you know, something like that.

[133] So after that, of course, my mom, being a peacemaker, wanting to make everything right was devastated.

[134] When I told her how hurt I was and how much it hurt him, absolutely destroyed my mom.

[135] And my mom knows that my dad can come across as a little bit authoritarian, a little bit militant.

[136] He's gotten so much softer and so much, you know, more gentle over the years.

[137] But there's that little, you know, that's drinking him.

[138] And my mom wanted to make it right.

[139] And so she starts working her butt off.

[140] She's texting my fiance saying, I am so sorry.

[141] Like we will do, please come over.

[142] please come over.

[143] Well, he's working like crazy now.

[144] We're planning a wedding.

[145] There are so many valid reasons as to why he couldn't all of a sudden drop everything and drive to Dixon like he had before.

[146] My mom starts trying to put together like manipulate situations where he and my dad are in the same place at the same time to talk it out and figure it out.

[147] So now my mom and I are on the phone arguing over what my dad should and shouldn't do.

[148] So it's my mom's on my dad's side.

[149] I'm on my fiance side and now this is a new dynamic my mom and I had never experienced.

[150] Very unhealthy, very unnecessary, you know, and I'm just like, well, I understand my mom's mind said that she's got to stick up for her husband.

[151] I'm sticking up for my, you know, future husband.

[152] And my mom's like, you are not married to him yet.

[153] You be careful.

[154] Like when you are married, you're in covenant, you know, then yes, you are completely, you know, loyal.

[155] But right now, think with your head, honey.

[156] Don't think with your heart.

[157] Something's wrong here.

[158] You haven't signed that dotted line yet.

[159] And right now, your fiance is distancing himself from us and we're going to him 110%.

[160] And he's not reciprocating.

[161] He's not allowing us to make this right.

[162] And I wouldn't see it.

[163] I was just in so deep.

[164] And I had Kimmy in one ear and my mom in the other.

[165] And I was listening to Kimmy.

[166] Pretty much.

[167] I was taking the side of the wrong person.

[168] Did you ever talk to Kimmy or Brian on the phone?

[169] They either Skype.

[170] I think they Skyped him when they were in South Africa and had adopted this little girl that they took my middle name, which is and put it in her.

[171] American name that they gave her because they had so much respect for me. And I remember thinking, whoa, too fast, too soon.

[172] And you've known them how long?

[173] I had known them for a few months.

[174] But they said, you know, if our, you know, friend has fallen in love with you and you're the person he's chosen, you must be something amazing.

[175] And we want our little girl to grow up to be someone like you.

[176] Leading up to the wedding in the next month or two or three, my parents' panic is slowly building, which I don't know.

[177] We're moving.

[178] We're, like, full speed ahead.

[179] Didn't catch an actual lie until her shower.

[180] And she was opening gifts, and one of her aunts said something about where they would live.

[181] And she said maybe eventually Texas because he hates California.

[182] And I thought, hates California.

[183] I remember that interview at the beginning.

[184] I said, where do you picture yourself?

[185] living.

[186] And that was just a simple question.

[187] That didn't mean I want you to live here, there, or wherever.

[188] I just wanted to know where they might end up living.

[189] And he had said, oh, I love California.

[190] That's where the tech world is.

[191] That's where I'm here to stay.

[192] And why he didn't want to be in Texas or anywhere else where he had been from or where his family was from.

[193] But when she said that, I thought, okay, somebody's lying to somebody here.

[194] But that we were so far along that that was another one of those, well, did I really hear that?

[195] that at the beginning?

[196] Or did he change his mind?

[197] I did a background check.

[198] And a lot of the things, the timelines did add up.

[199] But what bothered me was there was this address and then there was this address and this address and this address.

[200] And they were only like a few months apart.

[201] So I called a girlfriend of mine.

[202] I said, can I come over next time your son's home?

[203] Because he works for Facebook and he's very tech savvy, obviously.

[204] So I went over and I talked to him and I said, would you look this over for me and tell me what you think?

[205] Because he's in the same world as you.

[206] He works for Google.

[207] You work for Facebook.

[208] Tell me what you think.

[209] And he said, well, it wouldn't be that unusual to have a contract and then move on to another contract.

[210] But he said, this is a lot of different moves.

[211] And usually you would stay at least a year.

[212] And he said, there's a lot of moving around in here.

[213] So it confirmed my fear that, you know, this guy's bouncing around.

[214] Why?

[215] And it also had a couple of arrests.

[216] And I, explained those away thinking, well, you know, the guy is 30 and he's been around a little bit.

[217] And it seemed like he went back in to get some things from a landlord that, you know, maybe he got evicted.

[218] It looked like he got evicted.

[219] And then he got a break and enter.

[220] Well, I kind of excused that thinking he went to get his own stuff maybe.

[221] Well, and I didn't tell Sarah that I did the background check because she was already kind of pulling away.

[222] And I didn't want her to go, oh, well, you really don't trust him.

[223] So, you know, pull away some more.

[224] And, and And I thought, I'll give him that one.

[225] He probably went in to get his stuff.

[226] And later on, when I did ask her about it, I said, did you know that he had, I think, spent a night in jail or something?

[227] And she said, yeah.

[228] And she said he went to get a friend's stuff out of their apartment.

[229] And I went, okay.

[230] And to me, that wasn't a big deal.

[231] I just wanted to see any inconsistencies.

[232] I was actually looking for who he was engaged to so that I could talk to the family.

[233] I would have done anything to find them.

[234] and talk to them.

[235] But he had said that he sold his business and he got rid of everything at one point because his mother had cancer.

[236] So he went back home.

[237] And I thought, wow, none of that was in there.

[238] Yeah, none of that.

[239] There was no cancer in there.

[240] And when she went back, she never heard of any any cancer at all.

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[251] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

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[269] The friend of his out in, I think, either Virginia or North Carolina, was going to officiate our wedding.

[270] And here we're two weeks out, and my fiancé chooses to call him.

[271] We're in the car just to check up and be like, hey, we haven't talked to you in a while.

[272] Like, you think we should maybe, like, compare notes and get this thing put together.

[273] And I could hear the panic in his friend's voice on the other end.

[274] and I went, uh -oh, something's wrong.

[275] And the guy goes, oh, wait, are you serious?

[276] I didn't know, like, when is the wedding?

[277] And I start hyperventilating going, oh, my gosh.

[278] And my fiance looks at me like, oh, gosh, typical.

[279] Like we, and I went, no, no, no, no, no, no. Something's very, very wrong here.

[280] Come to find out, there had been lines crossed where my fiancé, apparently, when he asked him to officiate.

[281] And he said, yeah, sure, man, never heard anything since and just assumed without contacting us that we made other plans and found.

[282] somebody else local to officiate so not only did my fiancee never follow up with him he never followed up with us to confirm come to you know now we're two weeks out and he's in a major transition with his church job out where he lives and he's got kids and a wife and he can't just drop everything and fly out sure to California which I understand but now we're left without an officiant and I remember thinking bad like this is a big deal you sign up to officiate someone's wedding you're going to freaking follow up, even if that person doesn't, you know, say anything.

[283] And he just go, he had reasons and explanations, kind of.

[284] And I just thought, wow, you're really gracious toward your friend.

[285] That's the way I read it.

[286] And my parents, though, were the ones going, this is not normal.

[287] And that's when, like, major concerns were coming up for them, which I understood.

[288] But my mom was like, if you really are that close, if you agree to officiate, if you are, but you find a way.

[289] And so they just couldn't, like, let this go.

[290] Because my mom kept put, and I kept thinking, why are you driving this point home.

[291] I had reasons in my head for why his friends all over the place couldn't make it.

[292] Another big trigger or big indicator that things weren't right and it kind of led me back to how I felt in the very beginning with all my skepticism and whatnot was at wedding planning time and invitation time and guest list time.

[293] He didn't have anybody that's coming to his party.

[294] How coincidental.

[295] Nobody for wedding party even.

[296] At that time.

[297] And we're down at mailing out.

[298] No, past bailout.

[299] limitations and trying to figure out who's coming, who isn't.

[300] And nobody other than his direct family on his side of the aisle was coming to the wedding.

[301] She wanted to kind of cut the list.

[302] And I was telling her, you know what, he shouldn't even care.

[303] You know, it's really kind of your wedding.

[304] And he should be just grateful that he's marrying you.

[305] And so what?

[306] How many guys really care about the numbers?

[307] She felt sorry for him.

[308] Who was supposed to stand next to him at the wedding?

[309] His brother.

[310] Yeah.

[311] But when the officiated.

[312] She didn't drop out two weeks before.

[313] His brother is ordained, I believe, and he is an elder in the church that he attends where they live.

[314] And so he called his brother up and was like, I have no choice.

[315] Can you officiate?

[316] And his brother had to present it to the elder board.

[317] That's the way their church operates.

[318] And, of course, because he can't officiate a wedding without the approval and all that stuff, has to be, like, you know, deemed biblically sound, you know, union.

[319] And he got the approval.

[320] And he was going to do it.

[321] So the plan was no one was going to stand next to my fiancé because he was now our officiant.

[322] At the beginning, we used to laugh a lot, but well into our engagement.

[323] He made some kind of comment we were in the car.

[324] He said, he belly laughed.

[325] And I remember the feeling of surprise when he laughed.

[326] And then I remember noticing the surprise and going, why am I surprised that I just made my fiancee laugh that hard?

[327] I make people laugh all the time.

[328] He would be like, baby, that was a good one.

[329] That was funny.

[330] He'd be like, you know, you have your moments, you know.

[331] Like a while ago, like back at the beginning, You know, when we first met, you had some singers.

[332] Like, he'd really make me laugh.

[333] And I'd be like, oh, yeah, and inside, I'm kind of hurt, but I don't want to take it personally because I don't want to be a baby.

[334] But I'd be like, what, you don't think I'm funny now?

[335] You know, kind of putting up this protective front.

[336] And he'd be like, I mean, you know, you have your moments.

[337] Yeah, so then I'd subtly start to think, oh, I guess I didn't have as much to offer as I thought I did.

[338] But, you know, he did tell me all the time, well, you grew up with people, you know, praising your fearfully and wonderfully made self.

[339] That phrase got repeated so many times.

[340] and I'd be like, oh, I mean, my name does mean princess, and people often joked, you know, oh, the princess kind of thing.

[341] Man, I didn't realize what a high maintenance, you know, but he's opening my eyes to the reality of, I'm one of many and I don't actually know how the world works.

[342] But it was subtle.

[343] That did not start at the beginning.

[344] At the very beginning of our relationship, I was the best thing that ever happened to him.

[345] And this thing started, this pattern started where I would ask him a question or something and I would kind of go, well, wait, what about it?

[346] And he'd go, whoa, whoa, whoa, put his hands up.

[347] And he'd be like, don't get all defensive.

[348] You're getting defensive.

[349] And I go, no, no. And I'd start to get frustrated, which is a natural reaction.

[350] But now I've been told that my frustration is defensiveness.

[351] So now I don't know what to do with all these feelings.

[352] Because I don't think they're appropriate anymore.

[353] And he told me, he's like, babe, and there was a point where we're in our new house in the kitchen.

[354] And I broke down crying because he said he leaned on the counter and he clasped his hands.

[355] and he looked me in the eye and he had this real gentle look on his face of concern.

[356] And he looked me right in the eye and he goes, as your future husband, help me figure out how to help you through this thing that you do.

[357] Because there's going to come a day that you do it to people when we are in a group and I'm going to have to stop you and it is not appropriate.

[358] And I was like, what do I do?

[359] Because apparently, I do this thing where I tend to steamroll the other person.

[360] or if we're in a conversation and we maybe have two different perspectives on something, I will wear that other person down until they acquiesce or until they acknowledge why I feel the way I feel.

[361] Patently false.

[362] Thank you.

[363] I mean, I've been friends of you for 10 years, but like, what do I know?

[364] If I feel unheard or if I feel like my opinion is thrown out the window, I will get frustrated because I'm like, I have reasons for feeling the way I feel.

[365] Would you just acknowledge it?

[366] I don't need you to agree.

[367] just need you to respect me as a human and we can move on.

[368] But he would say that I had this way of, he said I would build a laundry list and I would exhaust that person until they finally would go, okay, yes, I see your point.

[369] So there was just enough truth that I actually believed him and I was devastated.

[370] So this moment in our kitchen, he was like, there is this major character flaw in you and help me love you through it.

[371] Help me, equip me as your future husband and how to correct this and stop this because there's going to come a day where you do this to somebody when we're having company over or we're in a group or something and I'm going to have to say honey like in front of people so he asked me he said do you want me to stop you in front of people or do you want me to wait until we're in private and then tell you that you did it you did the thing and it shouldn't happen again and I was like I don't know and then once I was crying and heartbroken and embarrassed and feeling like a kid, like literally like a little kid that just got chastised.

[372] Not because he made me feel like a little kid, but I was deserving of feeling like a little kid.

[373] He would come over and go, oh, oh honey, come here, come here.

[374] And he would wrap me up in this big hug, arms around me, this big guy.

[375] And he'd be like, I love you.

[376] I'm here for you.

[377] My purpose is to get up every morning and ask myself, how can I die to myself so that you can flourish.

[378] That was his biggest message that he preached.

[379] So the way, you can see how my brainwashing happened over months that all of these things that when I tell the story, it sounds like I was being nitpicked, but what I was being told, what I was trained to believe was that he was, his whole purpose was raising me up so that I could improve kind of thing and I could be the best person I could be.

[380] And that despite all of these little flaws or little things that he was seeing in me, he loved me selflessly like Christ was called to love the church and like this was supposed to be modeled in biblical marriage.

[381] And he doesn't know that for months before I met him, I had been set up because I had been praying, Lord, one day when I do meet somebody, I ask that it be something that helped me see you.

[382] Like bring me a man that shows me Jesus and how he was an example of, you know, the bridegroom and the bride, you know, the church being the bride kind of thing.

[383] and men are called to love their wives as Christ loves the church.

[384] So in my mind, this is a good thing.

[385] That's what you've been asking for.

[386] Yes.

[387] So for months, I mean, I would, my roommate and I would take communion.

[388] Not that I was desperate for a guy, but, you know, we're seeking the Lord.

[389] And, of course, one day we want to get married.

[390] So I'm just like, Lord, help me see you in my future relationship.

[391] And so in comes this night in shining armor preaching everything that I've been praying in private.

[392] So you can see how my heart was set up to fall for something like this.

[393] Of course.

[394] 100%.

[395] So you fast forward nine months and I have now turned him into my source of information and my he now is my opinion.

[396] I don't think anymore.

[397] It's scary when you watch it in action and you feel you can do nothing about it.

[398] It's like this thing happening before your eyes and you're feeling it and you're feeling it pulling in a direction and you can't grab it.

[399] You can't get a hold of it.

[400] and that's your child that, you know, you've watched grow, you know, for 30 years.

[401] And it's just, it's just a horrible feeling of thinking what's happening to them.

[402] What's going on?

[403] Because you don't know yourself.

[404] You just know something is off.

[405] And you just hope you're wrong.

[406] And you don't want to push them away because, you know, 30 years old and made really good decisions and, you know, always walked a pretty straight path, and when we questioned her, he was okay with it if she could answer the questions.

[407] I never fully was.

[408] I thought even if she answers them, that doesn't mean that she's had the kind of experience to be able to see through some of these things.

[409] I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt.

[410] I didn't want to be that hovering parent, but there were times I would just wake up in the night and think something doesn't line up.

[411] I don't know what it is.

[412] Like I would just, my insides would just, turn, think, something's wrong.

[413] I need some help here.

[414] I need to go and talk to some other people.

[415] And I'd wake up sometimes crying and just, I would just pray.

[416] I'd call up friends that I knew were prayer warriors and I'd say, hey, pray for my daughter.

[417] And I was constantly at prayer meetings at the church and just asking God, show her, show us.

[418] If this is wrong, slam the door.

[419] If it's right, show us, give us, you know, grace for him.

[420] It was like torment.

[421] I'm Dan Taberski.

[422] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[423] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[424] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[425] She's like, I can't.

[426] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[427] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[428] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[429] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[430] Well, you were holding something back.

[431] Intentionally.

[432] Yeah, yeah.

[433] Well, yeah.

[434] No, it's hysteria.

[435] It's all in your head.

[436] It's not physical.

[437] You're, oh my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[438] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the Witches of Salem?

[439] Or is it something else entirely?

[440] Something's wrong here.

[441] Something's not right.

[442] Lee Roy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[443] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios.

[444] Hysterical.

[445] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[446] You can binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

[447] My mom, I found out, contacted my boss's wife.

[448] So my relationship with my boss and his family, I've known them since college, and they're like second parents to me. And they were actually going to provide their house in their backyard for the wedding.

[449] So really amazing.

[450] And I work with their eldest daughter, who's one of my dearest friends.

[451] So she's very closely involved in all this too.

[452] Well, my mom reached out to her mom, my boss's wife, out of desperation, going, she just needed to talk to another mom who had had a daughter get married before and say, is this anxious, you know, feeling that I have?

[453] Is this normal?

[454] Or is there something that I need to pay attention to?

[455] So they went to breakfast on a Friday morning while I was at work and the wife shows up, you know, to the office where I work and she's like, I'm about to get lunch or your mom.

[456] And I'm like, oh my gosh, are you kidding me?

[457] Something's wrong.

[458] You know, my mom probably is dealing with pre -wedding.

[459] I'm her oldest child.

[460] You know, she had a hard time when I went to college.

[461] So she's going through some emotional stuff, me getting married.

[462] And I'm just like, okay, go fix it.

[463] You know, have fun.

[464] And then she comes back, and I'm dying to hear what's going on, but I'm also working.

[465] So we're really busy.

[466] And then she pulls me into a back office, and she proceeds to say, basically, she, like, you don't mess with this woman.

[467] She is mama bear.

[468] She sits me down, and I've never been on the receiving end of her, like this version of her.

[469] And she points to me and she says, I am now concerned.

[470] And she said, I honestly thought that your mom just needed to be assured of the way that things go until I heard the things that she had to say.

[471] And she mentioned just some changes in my personality and character that she had seen.

[472] And I tried to explain some of that away.

[473] And some of my biblical perspectives had really changed.

[474] And this woman's known me for years.

[475] And she's like, these as far as I was concerned were pillars of who you were.

[476] And now they're changing.

[477] So help me understand so that I'm not.

[478] also concerned.

[479] So things that I, like the way that God speaks to us in prayer and through the word, ways that I believed, he basically had me discounting all of it, saying, nope, God does not, you know, implant thoughts in your brain, even if it's scripture.

[480] It's through scripture that he speaks to you.

[481] Or he does not, like, basically miracles don't happen anymore.

[482] Things like that.

[483] I'm like, with my eyeballs, I have seen someone get healed.

[484] I have been healed of things, you know.

[485] So I just like, I'm not one of those extreme people, but I have experienced it.

[486] You can't discount what I have felt and seen.

[487] And he would say, well, I don't know what you were experiencing, babe, but that obviously wasn't, you know, biblical.

[488] There are other, you know, forces out there.

[489] There's good and evil, and evil poses is good.

[490] So what you might have experienced was maybe not God.

[491] And I'm just like, and he'd be like, you know, devil's a bit.

[492] good liar.

[493] She, this, you know, my boss's wife is sitting me down saying, I know you.

[494] I know what makes you you and I know why people love you.

[495] And I am seeing that those are the things that are changing.

[496] That is not something that should change in a healthy relationship.

[497] It should grow.

[498] It should flourish.

[499] It should be stronger.

[500] Um, you should be given space to develop and this is opposite of that.

[501] I, I mean, I was terrified.

[502] I was at because I thought, okay.

[503] And never did I think maybe this shouldn't happen, I just thought we have a long road of convincing.

[504] When I reached out to her boss's wife, who's extremely discerning, and we had breakfast together and she just said, oh, no, no, no, something's wrong.

[505] Because I poured my heart out and I said, you know, this happened, this happened, this happened.

[506] We talked to her and I gave her, you know, everything I knew.

[507] And she just said, oh, no, she affirmed everything in that was coming from my gut that said flashing red light, something's wrong.

[508] And as she said, there is something wrong.

[509] I'm going to talk to her.

[510] When I did not know what to do, I finally thought, I'm going to talk to Emily.

[511] I don't like going to one kid about another kid or whatever, but I thought, this is different.

[512] This is her life.

[513] Emily, I remember right where she was, she was walking up the stairs, and she came in and she said, what's up?

[514] And I said, how do you feel about She goes, why?

[515] It's like, I finally got on board.

[516] And I said, because here's what I'm feeling.

[517] And she said, if you feel that way, you need to go to her.

[518] You need to talk to her.

[519] And I said, well, I'm a little bit apprehensive because if she defends him and pulls away, and she said, you really need to go to her mom.

[520] And she said, the only reason I got on board at all was because when I talked to you guys, you guys made me feel like I was being judgmental.

[521] And so I got.

[522] on board and I stuffed those feelings but she said I still feel the same way.

[523] So you do?

[524] She said yeah I still feel you know something's not right.

[525] I remember I was walking up the stairs I was probably four steps up I was holding onto the railing and mom was sitting at the kitchen table and she said what do you think of now kind of like she was checking in like she does she does that in the beginning of all of my brother and sisters relationships I remember thinking when she asked me that it's a little late in the cave like I responded with uh what do you mean she goes well now that time has passed and you know him a lot better do you still approve of him and my thought was does it matter like I was just I was so thrown by this this line of questioning and I said what it mom what are you what are you talking about what are you getting that what do you mean do I approve of him like I'm what and and I regret now but I was a little bit rude and feisty at the time because I had somewhere to be and I was going upstairs for a reason.

[526] I was probably getting ready to go to work or something.

[527] And she's like, I just, I want to know if how he's been acting lately, if you still approve of him.

[528] And I said, I mean, I guess I'm not his biggest fan.

[529] I'm not really sure how to answer that.

[530] And I said, are you having an issue?

[531] Do you not approve of him anymore?

[532] Are you having a problem?

[533] And she said, yeah, she's having a problem.

[534] She's not approved.

[535] She doesn't approve of him anymore.

[536] And she said, I just feel like I am giving my daughter to a pack of wolves.

[537] And I said, well, what are you going to do?

[538] And she said, I don't know.

[539] She doesn't know if she should say anything.

[540] She doesn't know, genuinely doesn't know what to do.

[541] I'm trying to tell her.

[542] I said, Mom, I think you should tell her.

[543] Quite honestly, when she came to me a week before the big day and said, I just don't feel right, the first thing I thought it was, we can't stop this.

[544] train's way too far down the track.

[545] We talk and talk and talk and we finally decide we need to talk to Sarah.

[546] Next time.

[547] That conversation with Mom on the stairs happened on a Thursday, and then Saturday was going to be the Bachelorette party.

[548] Why are you doing this to me?

[549] Why is this my life?

[550] I've worked so hard, and I have asked over and over, please tell me, please tell me, and so you're telling me eight days before my wedding?

[551] Sorry, you lost your chance.

[552] I'm convinced.

[553] You all will be convinced over time.

[554] Something Was Wrong is written, recorded, edited, and produced by me, Tiffany Reese.

[555] A heartfelt thank you to Sarah, her family, and friends for participating in this series.

[556] Check out Sarah's personal blog, Space and Purpose, via the show notes.

[557] All of the music this season comes from the band Gladrags.

[558] Special thank you to Alyssa Doyle for her hype, support, and story editing assistants.

[559] Shout out to my husband, Michael, and our three children, for encouraging me every step of the way.

[560] If you're enjoying something was wrong, please subscribe.

[561] Subscribe now and consider sharing with your friends and family, and like literally anybody you've ever met.

[562] Just, that'd be great.

[563] Thank you.

[564] If you would like to share your story with us, you can now call us and leave voicemail.

[565] You can remain anonymous or share your first name and location.

[566] Our number is 1 .323 -379 -5678.

[567] This number will also be listed in the show notes.

[568] Your message might be shared on a future episode.

[569] Thank you.

[570] If you or someone you know is in an abusive relationship, please.

[571] call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1 -800 -799 Safe.

[572] If you like something was wrong, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[573] Prime members can listen ad -free on Amazon Music.

[574] Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery .com slash survey.