182 - Something Kevin-y (The Book Q&A)

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Welcome to this middle of the summer.

[2] Oh, God.

[3] Episode of my favorite murder.

[4] The podcast.

[5] The podcast that's on vacation.

[6] That's right.

[7] So what are we doing talking to you here?

[8] Well, we missed you guys.

[9] We miss you deeply.

[10] We're sorry to be away.

[11] Yeah.

[12] We're coming back.

[13] Yeah.

[14] But in this way that's...

[15] We just needed a minute.

[16] It's like we're having a moment.

[17] We were so fucking overwhelmed and I feel better already.

[18] Oh, my God.

[19] You should see my skin.

[20] It's glowing, greenish.

[21] It's got a greenish hue.

[22] I'm sweating and I've started in Chernobyl.

[23] Yeah, so we decided we would do a new recording so that if you missed us, you wouldn't be mad anymore.

[24] Yeah.

[25] So we're going to do a Q &A episode specifically about the book.

[26] And on the fan cult, a bunch of people wrote in on the forum questions about the book.

[27] We haven't seen them.

[28] Yeah, we're just going to read off of paper that we haven't looked at.

[29] That's the level of vacation we're on.

[30] Yeah, we're kind of coming and read off a piece of paper level.

[31] Oh, that's what we always do.

[32] But first of all, can we just say, thank you so much for the overwhelming feedback and support for this book.

[33] We've said it a million times, but it was hard to write.

[34] It was hard to release, like expose ourselves.

[35] And we knew you'd be there for us, but I was definitely surprised at the amount of positive feedback and people saying that they loved it is so.

[36] lovely it is it's overwhelming we are we are we feel so grateful that we got you guys to support us because you're so supportive yeah and that was a really hard thing to do you're supportive of our dirty little secrets yeah thank you you're like the best moms ever we turn that light on or can we read yeah let's get in the mood yeah the moodiness Stephen light the disco ball as we read your questions about our book stay sexy don't get murdered featuring Paul Giamatti.

[37] That's now the full official title, by the way.

[38] Do you want to go first?

[39] Ask me a question and we'll both answer it.

[40] Okay, great.

[41] The first question on this piece of paper, Stephen printed for us, is from Zizi.

[42] Oh, I have plenty of questions, but the most pressing to Karen, when did you join AA?

[43] You mentioned the trip to the hospital where you realize 12 drinks every night is 10 too many for a body to handle.

[44] I'm wondering how long, between this realization and the start of AA and the journey, in between that brought you there.

[45] So I'll stop there because now there's it to Georgia.

[46] I'll stop there and answer it.

[47] I am not in AA.

[48] I try to tell people this.

[49] When we do our meet and greets, I am not in a program.

[50] I stopped drinking because I started having seizures.

[51] And later, I joined a 12 -step program for eating disorders, which helped me immensely.

[52] I've gone back to and dropped out of because, of course, it's very, very difficult.

[53] but I got a lot of recovery in that program have never gone to AA for quitting alcohol but not because it was so simple but because having seizures scared me so badly that for a long time I was like I'm never going to drink again I've had like a glass of champagne at weddings here and there over the years because it's been since 1997 but it always makes me sick Or I get drunk really fast in a weird way and then don't like it.

[54] I think it's really cool.

[55] And I always have that you make sure to tell people that you are not in the program.

[56] You don't want to like, you're not trying to trick anyone being like, I'm sober Karen.

[57] You're just really straightforward about what works for you.

[58] Yes.

[59] What works for you.

[60] And it doesn't, you know, that might not work for, that probably won't work for most people who have alcohol problems.

[61] Right.

[62] But you're open and clear about it.

[63] I think that's cool.

[64] Yeah.

[65] Thank you.

[66] I mean, it's a big thing.

[67] And I think if you are in a place where you feel like you need help and it's out of your control, I absolutely recommend 12 -step programs because the structure and the community, it makes you see that this is a thing that you can let go of.

[68] And you're not alone.

[69] Yes, exactly.

[70] It's very common and there's lots of people there with good help.

[71] But yeah, I've never claimed to be an A for that.

[72] Probably the misunderstanding is me talking about 12 -step.

[73] programs, and I was talking about the ones for eating disorders, which also have a lot of great help.

[74] Yeah.

[75] So, yeah, that's my journey.

[76] Cool.

[77] To Georgia, is there another author that you would love to meet?

[78] Loved how your passion for reading was present throughout the book.

[79] Absolutely jealous.

[80] You had the best chance to meet Ray Bradbury legend.

[81] You guys are the bestest.

[82] You too, Stephen, in parentheses.

[83] Yeah, my other favorite author is Douglas Adams, who wrote Hitchhiker's Guide to the galaxy.

[84] He's also deceased.

[85] So, you know, this is a who would you have dinner with like game?

[86] Living or dead, sure.

[87] Yeah.

[88] And he is just so hilarious and funny with that British wit and sense of humor.

[89] I highly recommend listening to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy audiobooks, which he reads and are so fucking, the author reads it himself.

[90] Douglas Adams reads them.

[91] He's so fucking cool and funny and entertaining.

[92] And I would I would just cry meeting him.

[93] Awesome.

[94] Yeah.

[95] You're sure.

[96] What reactions to the book being released have surprised you?

[97] Can we talk about my mom's reaction?

[98] It's up to you.

[99] This is from Kat.

[100] Also, do you think everyone has read your book then immediately read Daring Greatly?

[101] Love you both so much.

[102] I think Bray Brown owes us royalties.

[103] Yep.

[104] And we're going to need an honorary doctorate.

[105] That's right.

[106] And we're going to want our own TED Talk.

[107] And we're gonna.

[108] And we're gonna.

[109] And I want to love it.

[110] So my mom texts, the weirdest reaction, I think, has been from my mom who text me and Karen on a thread together, how she has your number.

[111] I'm sorry.

[112] I gave it to her.

[113] Okay, good.

[114] That said, Karen, said Georgia, I love this part that you wrote and then wrote, Karen, you don't know this, but you're a right winger because us right wingers have the same philosophy of you.

[115] that lefties are lazy and need to pick themselves up off their own boot, whatever, it was like some rant about.

[116] It was about being responsibility.

[117] Right.

[118] But against left -wing people who are liberal, like you and die.

[119] And I got so fucking angry at her.

[120] I responded, mom, period.

[121] And then I got a different thread with her and just fucking went off on her.

[122] And was like, Karen wrote about her motherfucking dying of Alzheimer's.

[123] And you have the gall to call her to, like, call that out.

[124] Anyway.

[125] Just to make it political.

[126] political, which I've asked you not to do.

[127] But I would say this.

[128] Yeah.

[129] I mean, it's my mom, so of course, I'm going to get mad.

[130] It's your mom.

[131] And also, families always think, and when you're that close with people, they always think they can be the ones that say things, because especially with parents, they always think they're smarter than you.

[132] Right.

[133] So they're, like, going to inform you about what you can't see about yourself.

[134] Right.

[135] And I think she was just trying to be, like, in it with us maybe a little bit.

[136] I don't know.

[137] I didn't, I don't care.

[138] I know you don't.

[139] I feel like so many people have been radicalized with this political thing.

[140] And there are people that are feeling things they haven't felt in years because they suddenly belong.

[141] And everything is real clear and black and white and simple.

[142] Right, right.

[143] And that's when you know, if things are black and white and simple, that's when you know you're in a bad place.

[144] Yeah.

[145] Because there's no nuance.

[146] No, there's no context.

[147] There's no subtlety.

[148] There's no gradient.

[149] could it be this or this?

[150] That's a good point.

[151] You know, and that's a lot of people are scared these days.

[152] I'm not making apologies for anybody.

[153] Absolutely.

[154] And I will say this, let's throw parents under the bus.

[155] My dad texted me after he read it and said, didn't tell me he was reading it, didn't say anything.

[156] And then all he texted me was, when were you a latchkey kid?

[157] Oh, out of nowhere?

[158] Oh, my God.

[159] And I said, Dad, it's too late.

[160] Yeah.

[161] It's too late.

[162] This is not a discussion anymore.

[163] But, I mean, he really, it's funny.

[164] He's always had that a little bit of like, oh, yeah, I don't, I don't know about how we did, you know.

[165] My parents just did what they, what they had to do.

[166] And what was done at the time.

[167] And what was very common.

[168] Yeah.

[169] But it was really funny because he was like, I thought latchkey meant that you didn't have parents and you didn't, you were just in the apartment by yourself.

[170] No, no, no, it's just like, light neglect is all it is.

[171] Yes, exactly.

[172] It's just like you, everybody in the 80s who were just like, you know, get home.

[173] yourself and if you can jump in a van on the way so be it um okay you want to ask a question let's see this one's from bad granny okay i want to know more about how karen and georgia managed to maintain and apparently grow their friendship while also writing a book together man i don't like group projects and i don't know if any of my relationships would survive working with me on a long -term important deadline -driven writing project look i know i'm the problem in these situations but it's only because I am almost always right and usually belligerently wrong on those rare occasions when I might be wrong.

[174] How did they do it?

[175] Bad grannie.

[176] Great questions.

[177] Such a good question.

[178] We don't know.

[179] Do you know?

[180] I feel like that's when we started going to therapy, right?

[181] Right.

[182] But it was also like if we were stacking up big responsibilities, that was like the third brick in the stack.

[183] Yeah.

[184] We were in the mode of make it work, get it done.

[185] Yeah.

[186] And I think the key to it was when we realized the book should be like the show and we should be writing our own essays.

[187] Right.

[188] Because yeah, no one writes a memoir together unless you have like a ghost writer or something.

[189] We have completely different writing styles, you know.

[190] And also I think that throughout the whole thing, the podcast and everything, is that it was so quickly successful that we kind of, there was no like backing down.

[191] Right.

[192] We both kind of knew we had to move forward and there was a good reason to, which is, you know, making it work yes that's right and I think that we did go into therapy and talking stuff through for me anyway it felt like that thing of like we both knew that whatever the the problems were in the interim big picture we wanted it to work we wanted to be happy and we wanted to take the success and not like basically what I was always afraid of but also sabotage it where it's like she made me do quit or any of that bullshit that I've definitely done in the past yeah yeah but I think that sabotage thing is right we have this amazing chance this is the first you know this is what I've been praying for yeah you can't fucking just walk away and be like well fuck you then which is like my instinct all the time all the time fuck everything well also it makes you start thinking and like we won't get so far into it but it also makes you go like when you fight about things what are you actually fighting about as opposed to the topic yeah because you're never fighting about the topic yeah what is it really it's always it's like anger or hurt hurt and control and fear yeah and fear yeah i don't like talking about any of those things uh -uh or admitting to any of those things neither but we had to oh that makes you a righty okay um well here's another one was there ever a time in the last three years that the two of you almost called it quits because their relationship wasn't working.

[193] This was from Irish Amy Five.

[194] She says that's a lot of time together between podcast, book writing, and touring.

[195] Yeah.

[196] A lot of time.

[197] Yeah.

[198] I don't, I feel like as angry as we've gotten at each other or like the fights that we've been in.

[199] Yeah.

[200] And I think it's always a power move to be like, I'm going to walk away.

[201] Oh, yeah.

[202] Everybody has that ace up their sleeve always.

[203] Totally.

[204] We got like a third party.

[205] in to be the neutral negotiator early enough that that was not no longer the card that was ever going to get played right was like then the fuck you then if you don't want to make the shirt i want or whatever yeah and then also it's like you know that walking away makes it your own fault kind of too or it's like you just decided not to work on yourself anymore yeah i think having vince for me too to like bitch to and then for him to be the voice of reason to me as well has been really helpful and I'm sure, you know, who you bitch too has a love of fucking head.

[206] Lizzie.

[207] Oh.

[208] The Lord on high.

[209] Yeah, that's true.

[210] You have to.

[211] Yeah, but you know what I was thinking recently, too, is because we've talked about this before, too, it would be a lot for a friendship.

[212] Yeah.

[213] But this, basically, I feel like we skipped from acquaintanceship to sister.

[214] We're totally sisters now.

[215] We're sister.

[216] And it's almost like rougher because you know I could say anything to my fucking sister.

[217] And guess what, bitch?

[218] you're still related to me. That's right.

[219] You know.

[220] That's right.

[221] Which is good.

[222] That's the situation we are in where it's kind of like still have to do the show.

[223] Still have to do the show.

[224] But it's good because I have all my life had the habit of walking away.

[225] Of like I'll throw the, I'll fucking flip the table with the monopoly set on it happily and ruin the rest of vacation.

[226] Like I love chaos and I love drama.

[227] Yeah.

[228] And so to have to be in a situation where it's that thing and I'm sorry but this is like the Ram Dass podcast I'm listening to all the time, you find your guru and you find the person that needs to teach you what you need to learn.

[229] Yeah.

[230] And that's how life goes, I believe.

[231] Yeah.

[232] So I just had to start going in my most stressed, in my most like using macaroni, macaroni and cheese as drugs.

[233] Yeah.

[234] That's when I was like, what, what am I supposed to actually be, I'm supposed to be changing, right?

[235] I'm not supposed to be holding the line.

[236] I'm supposed to be changing and growing.

[237] So how about I do that?

[238] Yeah, fine what that is.

[239] Eat a little bit of the mac and cheese.

[240] It's fine.

[241] Yeah, but there's better things.

[242] And it's like, ultimately, don't be so scared of growing.

[243] It's not that bad.

[244] Yeah.

[245] It's not.

[246] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[247] Absolutely.

[248] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash?

[249] Exactly.

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[266] Goodbye.

[267] Georgia, what if I told you we could be transported to the 1920s to solve a murder?

[268] I'd say my entire life and wardrobe have led me to this point.

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[282] Goodbye.

[283] So this is from C .C. Luz.

[284] Is there anything you are wishing you had not written now that it's out?

[285] Or the reverse of this.

[286] And just a comment, Georgia, I don't know how many times I have heard you talk about Kim's observation of the altar of self -doubt.

[287] But I've always been like, yeah, yeah, got it.

[288] Have some confidence.

[289] Got it.

[290] But after reading your fuller thoughts on this, I get it.

[291] So much more than a matter of self -esteem, but a call to jump in.

[292] really jump in makes me happy to hear that she herself realized it was a breakthrough moment like a goddamn real life goodwill hunting or ordinary people and it's a testament to your writing an explanation that i finally understood thanks stephen you're a gem uh thank you that's that's so nice to hear it's so the thing about the writing the book is that i really want we really wanted to come across and get our thoughts and feelings across and especially in that chapter when i'm writing about therapy and depression and anxiety and like the most I mean the most prevalent you know part of my life I really wanted to make it clear so that was really fucking hard and I'm I think I'm happiest with that chapter than I am with the any other chapters I like nice politeness too and is there anything you regret writing I regret I wrote about taking my top off for a photographer and I'm so fucking glad I did like I don't I don't regret that at all you shouldn't Because that's the part people talk to you about a lot.

[293] And that came up almost like it feels like every interviewer people asked us about it.

[294] Yeah.

[295] Because I think it happens.

[296] What about you?

[297] There is, no. At the end, first of all, I don't remember what I wrote and I haven't reread it.

[298] And in 10 years, I'll probably read it.

[299] And then I'll be all happy and I'd be able to answer any question you want.

[300] But I think the way that came out, I kind of honor the, that's how it is with making stuff and creativity.

[301] It has to come out as it comes out, and you don't get to, it's not about it being this perfect thing or saying, making the perfect statement.

[302] Yeah.

[303] It's like, it's about getting out the thing that you need to say.

[304] So, you know, part of me regrets all of it because that was private and I don't like being, I don't like that public life.

[305] It's so exposed.

[306] It's so exposed.

[307] But, and that's all I was kind of thinking about beforehand.

[308] But since we talk to people face to face, clearly it was.

[309] exactly how it was supposed to happen.

[310] Right.

[311] So yeah, not yet.

[312] Good.

[313] No regrets yet.

[314] Good.

[315] But I'll always hold out from some space for regret.

[316] Oh, it's always got to be there.

[317] Karen, yeah.

[318] This is from Gene Marie Gibson.

[319] Every time you talk or write about your mother, you share with all of us the joy, humor, and wit that she had and the honest struggles and hardships of her illness.

[320] I feel very honored that you have shared so much of her with us and trust us with her legacy.

[321] If you had to pick one word to sum up the wonder that is Pat Kilgariff, what word would you choose?

[322] I mean, badass.

[323] Yeah.

[324] She really was like, and thank you, that's lovely.

[325] It's also, when someone dies of Alzheimer's, they go away in slow motion.

[326] So writing those chapters about her, I got to remember her from like when she was like my active daily mom every day and really go.

[327] into those memories and it was like, you know, there's parts of our brain that when you think of something, you're there, it like really delivers you to that space and that time.

[328] And it got, I got to like take that chunk and then kind of put it and replace it with these, the more recent memories where I really didn't like that person, which there's a lot of guilt around that and people that have to be around relatives who have Alzheimer's, you don't like the sick, person because they're really hard to be around and it isn't them yeah so yeah uh thank you for the reception of the my real version of my mom yeah who was the opposite of of how she was when she was sick so there was just this real additional layer of the bummer kind of yeah well it was great i mean we really got to know her in the book and it was like fun and she i can't tell you how much she would be lovingness.

[329] Like my mom was the mom that if you had dinner at our house when we were in high school, she would like, whoever my friend was that she brought over for dinner, she'd be like, do you want a glass of wine?

[330] She was always like trying to be the cool mom and the fun mom and the like mom you could talk to.

[331] And people really treated her that way.

[332] Like she people, my friends and my sister's friends would like confide in my mom and tell her problems and my mom would just be like, hey, listen, here's the deal.

[333] You've got a blah.

[334] Like she was really good at it.

[335] So, you know what?

[336] I think the thing that my reaction to my mom's text, part of that was like, I'm kind of, it makes me feel guilty and sad that you're, that it's my mom who gets to react to it.

[337] And that's how she fucking does it.

[338] Instead, your mom would probably be like my dad, which is full of praise and, and everything.

[339] But that, I will remind you not to argue.

[340] But that was one moment.

[341] She had lots of other reactions.

[342] She was.

[343] was there at the book launch in New York, which again, thank you everybody at Forge and McMillan.

[344] They rented us.

[345] I don't know if we even got to talk about this because it was on break time, but rented us.

[346] We had the back room, like the private book room.

[347] The rare book's room.

[348] At the Strand bookstore in New York City, which is a very big fucking deal to us anyway.

[349] And Janet flew out and was there and was stoked.

[350] She was going around the room.

[351] She talked to everybody.

[352] took photos of just the most inane random I know she was so proud she brought great mom energy to that day and like in a very grounding way where sometimes we go through this stuff and I'm just like I don't know what the fuck's happening it's like getting on an elevator and then you're just like okay bye okay this is fun to watch it through other people's eyes too because when like you see a friend or someone who's like I have a Emily Gordon my friend was at a family vacation and her like niece was like freaked out that we knew and she was like I didn't realize how crazy it was until my niece wants a signed copy of your book and couldn't believe that I know you right shit yeah okay right I guess I just wish my mom had said something encouraging and and nicer because it's you know I feel bad that your mom doesn't get it enjoy it too and yet and then my mom swoops in with some fucking political comment look though that's just this is where this is where we are yeah and you know who knows what my mom could have said something passive aggressive like she was no fucking saint there were definitely minuses like you know it's it's not it's not that it's not that i know janet like janet's super proud of us and she was thrilled after that um here here's another one for you okay Karen did you find it easy to date again after divorce i'm going through a divorce now and feeling ready to date but i don't know how to shake the weird guilt i feel and this is from v mcternon oh my god that's That's a great question.

[353] I don't know if I'm the best person to ask, though, because before, like, I've never dated.

[354] I was a comic and an alcoholic.

[355] So I came up in my 20s.

[356] So you were a catch.

[357] Basically, yes.

[358] Who wants to say?

[359] So it was always just like, suddenly there was a guy that didn't leave is what it felt like to me. So when I would say, not only did I find it hard to date after I got a divorce, I had no idea what was going on.

[360] On top of which, and this is something, I don't know how old you are, what's her name V?

[361] But times have changed.

[362] And like even in a very short amount of time, like five years, I made a joke to this guy once about, hey, now you can call me. And his face dropped.

[363] It was as if I had gotten down on one knee and asked him to marry me. And that's when I realized, oh, no one calls each other anymore.

[364] It's only texting.

[365] Texting and apps and fucking.

[366] Texting and apps and distance and ghosting.

[367] And if I like you, I'm going to wait two weeks, but I probably won't even get a hold of you anyway.

[368] Because there's someone better out there and I want to date them.

[369] Yes.

[370] It's a fucking nightmare.

[371] So if you meet someone you like, go for it.

[372] Freak out and go for it.

[373] Start screaming.

[374] But don't, I'd say then, don't jump into it like with everything because, like, go slow probably.

[375] Go slow and also, yeah.

[376] Save it.

[377] Like, I mean, I'm still talking to my therapist about it.

[378] Because there was a time where I said to her, like, I just won't be.

[379] able to.

[380] So unless someone literally rings my doorbell, I can't do this.

[381] Well, I think that's a good thing to say, too, is that to let your close friends and trusted friends know that you're dating again.

[382] So if they know of anyone, keep you in mind.

[383] And that way, you're not doing the apps.

[384] You're not trying to meet someone at a bar cold turkey, which is, you know, they're thinking of you and thinking of their single friends.

[385] Right.

[386] And also, here's something I think is really helpful, and I can't remember if I read this or someone said it to me, but it only really works out once twice if you're lucky three times at all.

[387] Yeah.

[388] So you can't get discouraged every time someone isn't into you or you're not into another person.

[389] That's a great point.

[390] It rarely works out.

[391] So if it finally does, just know that it's like, you should expect either rejection or disappointment.

[392] It's kind of the name of the game.

[393] Try to have fun in the meantime.

[394] Keep it light.

[395] Keep it light and keep it moving.

[396] And, you know, finally we developed the plan.

[397] I think my friend Bradford and I have all have five crushes.

[398] So if somebody disappears or lets you down or whatever, you just like move on down the line.

[399] And just and do that until it feels like you shouldn't do that anymore.

[400] I met Vince three months after I ended my engagement with my ex three months later and I was dating someone else.

[401] And I met him and like that night was like, sorry dude, we're not dating anymore.

[402] I was like, this guy.

[403] Yes.

[404] Yeah.

[405] Just you never know when it's going to.

[406] That's the thing too.

[407] I always tell my friends too is like it takes one, it could be a one night that changes at all you know it's not like you have to it's going to be the next two years of your life you could randomly fucking run into someone and meet someone and suddenly you're with them now you know it's like you just don't know so with that being said and let's just keep on talking about this but um the one thing i do like either regret or uh keep try to keep aware of now is i am a huge along with you know all of my addictions and food and alcohol and whatever i'm a huge isolator it's like the only it's like I get overwhelmed and that's all I can do it's just like everybody leave me alone you have to go out and just be around you don't have to go on dates just be in public just be go to the movies with your friends spend time with people stay social don't because really what you what I ended up doing was I was completely isolating and then the times where I would meet someone that I liked it became this huge deal that felt like I can't handle how big this is because you had no other life that was like you were lying on this person to be your life, and that is so scary and overwhelming, but when you have this big full life with friends and options and crushes, then that one dude that you meet that maybe isn't that great even.

[408] You don't know.

[409] You can't know until you know.

[410] And also, when you come at someone with that energy, even if they think you're the coolest person in the world, they will run the fuck away.

[411] When it's like, it's you, the one that's going to save me. I'm hide you.

[412] Crazy person.

[413] You go.

[414] Oh, this is good.

[415] This is from Sherry.

[416] What's the story of how you got sweet baby Angel Paul Giamatti to do the audio book?

[417] You said in the previous Q &A how hard it was to write the book.

[418] How hard was it to record the audio book to read your written words?

[419] The book is great, but you really need to get the audio book in here.

[420] Oh, she's just talking to everybody.

[421] And hear Georgian, Karen, and Paul tell you the stories so much more emotional hearing it than reading it for me. Thank you.

[422] Karen's joked about Paul Giamati a few times.

[423] in like a, if, who's going to play you in a movie of her life.

[424] Karen says Paul Giamatti.

[425] And then we were being asked, oh, are you guys going to record the audiobook?

[426] Right.

[427] And on Twitter and shit, which I think drove you crazy.

[428] Well, yeah, it was just like, what else do we do but talking to microphones and our own book?

[429] But so I made the very sarcastic joke that it would be Paul Giamati reading the audiobook.

[430] And then I would say it was like a couple months later.

[431] It wasn't immediate.

[432] I woke up one morning and had an email in my inbox from Paul Giamatti, which was, and it was basically him saying, hey, I heard you guys talked about me. I'm so honored.

[433] I love the show, which was, of course, in and of itself crazy and awesome.

[434] And you thought it was fucking fake, which I thought it was fake because I come from a long line of 90s comedians who absolutely would do that to you, make you answer, and then make fun of you for being excited.

[435] So I started to write back an email that said, hey, you know what, fuck you, whoever this is, because I didn't recognize the email.

[436] And it was like, whoever this is, your dick, and like, fuck you.

[437] And then I, thank God, hit pause and was like, now hold on.

[438] Because who knows?

[439] Because this life has been fucking crazy the past couple of years.

[440] Exactly.

[441] It could be Paul Giamati.

[442] It could.

[443] Don't tell Paul Giamati to fuck off yet.

[444] Like, put a 48 -hour hold on it.

[445] Make sure it's actually Paul Giamati you're telling you fuck off and not some random.

[446] comedian.

[447] Really get specific.

[448] So when I finally answered the email, I basically said, this is thrilling.

[449] We think you're the best.

[450] And if you do want to know why we were talking about you, and if you do want to be a part of the audiobook, we would love it.

[451] Sorry to be gross and ask you for something.

[452] Hollywood ask, but might as well do it.

[453] And he immediately wrote back, I'd love to.

[454] Sounds great.

[455] Like it was the easiest booking in the world.

[456] And then he actually came through and did it, which, I mean, we weren't there for it.

[457] We didn't.

[458] We haven't met him yet.

[459] We haven't met him.

[460] We don't, he just did this thing for us.

[461] This, like, favor for it.

[462] It was a favor.

[463] It was a huge favor.

[464] And he has, what do you?

[465] Billions.

[466] Billions.

[467] Is it billion?

[468] Billions.

[469] He's millions and billions of dollars, probably.

[470] He has plenty of shit to do.

[471] Yeah.

[472] And he took the time.

[473] We still haven't sent him, like, a gift basket or anything.

[474] We talked about sending him a muffin basket.

[475] Stevens, get him an edible arrangement.

[476] Oh, yeah, Jay.

[477] Can you send.

[478] Stephen was like, that's not my fucking job anymore.

[479] Now, we called Stephen and Stephen calls Jay.

[480] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[481] That's now the order.

[482] I think the edible arrangement where it's pineapple dipped in dark chocolate is probably...

[483] We're not going to scrimp.

[484] No way.

[485] We're going to splurge on Giamat.

[486] That's right.

[487] Every time I talk about Paul Giamati, I think I've said this.

[488] My dad, if I mention his name to my father, my father says, I've ever heard about his father?

[489] And then he starts to lecture me about Paul Giamatti's father.

[490] Who owned a baseball team, right?

[491] Is that wrong?

[492] commissioner of baseball yeah he was like a big deal in baseball but he also was like a professor jesus he's that he's big deal okay and we love you paul jimani thank you we love you as for recording the audiobook that was so like intimidating because I'm such a huge audio book and I stop listening to books that are having you know a narrator I don't like right and I fucking hate my voice and I've tried to listen to the audio book a little bit on my own just to you know fucking cross check and god it's annoying right I mean of course that's like that's the age old thing it's like first time you hear your voice on an answering machine or something and you're just like no don't let that be me I also cried recording the audiobook of course I was supposed to record the first chapter first and it was the mom chapter and it was nine in the morning and I god the poor sound guy the recording engineer I wish I remembered his name.

[493] Kevin?

[494] I'm going to say Kevin.

[495] It's not Kevin.

[496] Something Kevin -y.

[497] He was like, I felt so bad.

[498] I was just like, um, sorry, can I do a different chapter first?

[499] He's like, yes.

[500] Like, oh, my God.

[501] He didn't want to get into it.

[502] Our friend of the show, Schmoo, says, Karen, Karen, your latchkey kid chapter made me laugh really hard.

[503] Was your sister involved in writing that chapter?

[504] If not, how did she react when she read it?

[505] Is that how she remembered those hours after school?

[506] that is such a good question because interestingly enough I wrote that chapter at my sister's house Oh that must have helped Yeah it I think it was Either Christmas or Thanksgiving or some kind of a holiday That we were on six months behind Yeah we didn't even talk about that how we were constantly And always six months behind in that book And I kept being like well Karen hasn't turned anything in So I don't have to turn anything in And I'm going to wait until Karen turned something in Before I turn something in Yeah It was the great standoff.

[507] The editor loved it.

[508] She thought it was precious.

[509] So, yeah, I started, I got the idea of that because I was staring at the title, which is how to be a latchkey kid.

[510] And then I was just like, the pictures that were coming into my head were so specific.

[511] It was the second house we lived in in Petaluma on Eastman Lane.

[512] It was like, it was where all the main memories happened to me. Like it's always set there in my mind.

[513] And so, and I could think of like, you know, 20 different things that would happen constantly.

[514] And I just suddenly was like, tell people, think of the children who would never be latchkey kids, who have no idea what this even means.

[515] Explain to them moment by moment.

[516] Yeah, because it's so normal to you.

[517] It was your childhood.

[518] But then when you realize that some people don't even know what that is.

[519] Have never been left alone like that.

[520] Jim Kilgariff, for example.

[521] Oh, wait, because then she did write.

[522] Also wrote, what was your dad's reaction?

[523] And then she said, basically, I just want to know everything about that chapter.

[524] My sister, I had my sister read the first pass, basically.

[525] But I, she was like, yeah, that's good.

[526] She did one of those, which the reason she's like that is the reason I'm like this.

[527] Like, she has never, no one of my family has ever given me praise or approval.

[528] And so I'm always like, what if I did it this way?

[529] I reread it and realized that I went out of the voice of it and went back in and fixed it.

[530] And then she was, you know, but then she didn't care.

[531] She's a single mother.

[532] She's a single mother.

[533] She's a way better stuff to do.

[534] My sister, so we both have big sisters who are pretty close in age with us, and she got sad and couldn't finish it.

[535] And I think it's partly that I write about so many of the bad things I did and bad things I went through, like drugs and, you know, going with strange men to the top of a fucking mountain and taking my shirt.

[536] shirt off.

[537] Yeah.

[538] And as my big sister, she feels responsible and that she should have protected me, but she was, she's 18 months older than me and going through her own shit.

[539] And it's just like, it's, you know, you were my big sister, but we were, we were both embroiled in our own crap.

[540] So I feel kind of bad that it bummed her out.

[541] That's, well, but also that's, I mean, I feel like that's true.

[542] That's like how it's really hard.

[543] All those stories aren't, it's not like, and then I won first prize.

[544] Yeah, no. There's no first prize.

[545] We don't fucking read any shit in that.

[546] I barely got my high school diploma.

[547] Yeah.

[548] And it is hard.

[549] Those are the parts.

[550] It's like writing about the juiciest parts of life are the hardest parts.

[551] And it makes sense that the people that were with us don't want to go and sit in it with us.

[552] Also, can I say I didn't thank her husband in my thank you.

[553] So I just want to thank Andy right now.

[554] Oh, good.

[555] You're a great brother in law.

[556] Apologies.

[557] I think you only did family though, right?

[558] Yeah, but he's family.

[559] Oh, true.

[560] I did my sister -in -law too.

[561] I've known her for fucking 20 years.

[562] Andy, God.

[563] Can you leave me alone?

[564] Jesus.

[565] All these demands you keep making.

[566] Okay.

[567] Did I just ask that?

[568] Yeah.

[569] Kay Mooney, 22, says, just wanted to say that I've been putting off finishing the last chapter because I love the book so much.

[570] I love that.

[571] That's the ultimate compliment.

[572] It was beautiful and felt just like the podcast, like my friends were indulging me in all of their life mishaps in a beautiful, vulnerable, incisive way.

[573] So proud of you guys.

[574] So proud of you guys.

[575] Thank you.

[576] So proud of you.

[577] of you guys so proud of you guys questions what was the hardest story to tell were there any moments or stories that you thought should be played down to protect someone like georgia calling out her mom throughout and what has been the best outcome from all the vulnerability you shared in the book that's nice god there's just so much i think the people who've been who struggle with mental health telling us that our frankness and our casualness about talking about it, it makes it like the stigma's gone of getting their own help.

[578] Yes.

[579] And I fucking love that so much.

[580] And I, if that's what our legacy is, I'm fucking, that's bigger than I could have ever imagined.

[581] Yeah.

[582] You know, an impact I would have had on the world.

[583] Totally.

[584] I'm proud of that.

[585] Yeah.

[586] You should be.

[587] It's very cool.

[588] And it's, I like it because we didn't do it on purpose.

[589] Totally.

[590] It wasn't this weird.

[591] Yeah, yeah.

[592] It was just, I didn't realize how many people were so self -conscious about it or ashamed.

[593] But that's because, you know, I don't know.

[594] I would say when we, not the best outcome because I'm not really sure about the outcomes, but I'll say the moment that it felt like it was more than just we put out this memoir, which is kind of how it felt like when we turned in the final draft, I was just like, get this away from me. Yeah.

[595] I don't know what this is even going to be.

[596] And we were in, I believe it was Toronto.

[597] And there were like 30 people from the booksellers, remember that?

[598] Yeah.

[599] And they all met us in the hallway.

[600] And the looks on their faces, the way they were holding the book.

[601] Because the book hadn't come out yet.

[602] They were like getting their first copies because they were all booksellers.

[603] That's right.

[604] So they were early.

[605] They were early readers.

[606] And we kind of all said hi and nice to meet you.

[607] and everything.

[608] And then one girl just goes, it was a really good book.

[609] And she said it like, I need you guys to understand.

[610] And it really, thank you so much.

[611] I'm sorry, I don't remember your name offhand.

[612] But it was that kind of moment where I went, oh, fucking thank God.

[613] Yeah.

[614] She understood the need.

[615] And of course, we weren't going to ask that or whatever.

[616] But it was like she really needed us to understand it.

[617] And thank God.

[618] And it was the best feeling because it was like yeah I agree this is gone surreal in how do Karen and Georgia to me that's us remain so close I feel like it would be difficult to maintain a healthy friendship after everything that has happened with their success I'm truly envious of their friendship wasn't the rumor going around that we're that we're not on a vacation that we hate each other and then the podcast is ending which is hilarious because we were in like our best when that got spread we were at like our best place in our friendship.

[619] I feel like, too, where we're like texting each other gifts all the time.

[620] I'm like, you know, I don't think we've gone more than a week without texting.

[621] Even when we're mad at each other and we're fighting about something, we still need to start texting.

[622] And I kind of love that like, I think we're in a fight.

[623] And then I show up at the office who records them with you.

[624] And we're both just like, hey, how are you?

[625] What's going?

[626] Like, it breaks this tension that for me is really hard.

[627] Because I can hold a grudge and I can be a bitch and be like, you do not get to see the cool Georgia part of me. You, you know, you don't deserve it.

[628] But when I walk in and we're both just like, oh, your hair looks cute, what are you do?

[629] And I'm like, okay, we can dissolve, like, just dissolve the, you know, the fighting and just be like normal people, like sisters.

[630] Yes, it's a sister thing.

[631] Yeah, friendship is like when you're a little more distant.

[632] And so it's like, can we get dinner on Friday?

[633] Where it's like, I've watched you eat so many times.

[634] I've watched you pick things on menu.

[635] I could order for you.

[636] I mean, we've spent, we've, we, it was like, it was like being in the arm.

[637] or something.

[638] We were forced together through great luck and wonderful success and whatever.

[639] Like being in the army.

[640] Yeah.

[641] I don't know it is.

[642] But yeah.

[643] So it's the time we spend together, we have insane, as I like to call them, peak experience.

[644] It's like when we walk out on stage at live shows, you and I are having that shared experience that that audience is giving us.

[645] And we've gone into these realms together.

[646] So I don't feel like I need to be like, hey, do you want to get brunch on Sunday?

[647] Because it's past that.

[648] Here, I have a good one, though.

[649] This is a good one.

[650] Here's another question.

[651] It's from Alice Yarr.

[652] Let's be honest about the inevitable movie deal that's going to follow the book.

[653] Does she know something we don't know?

[654] So my question.

[655] How the fuck would you shoot that movie?

[656] Here's a good one.

[657] So the question is, who's the cast of SSDGM, the movie?

[658] It's all toddlers with voices of grownups.

[659] I mean, I would obviously love Leanna more.

[660] Vermont from Game of Thrones to play me as a child.

[661] Okay.

[662] And then Sonsa can play my sister.

[663] I don't know.

[664] I don't know.

[665] There's no movie deal, guys.

[666] Write your local theater.

[667] We don't know because did we tell that story of when we were interviewed, we went on the CBS this morning with Gail King.

[668] God, can we tell you guys real quick?

[669] Gail King is the most amazing woman we have ever met.

[670] Guys, you guys.

[671] Did we even talk about this?

[672] I don't think we've been recording since then.

[673] says no, no, no. Great.

[674] So when we went on that show, Gail King, I was trying to tell Georgia, here's how it's going to go.

[675] Because that's what I always want someone to do for me that no one ever does.

[676] So I always think she wants that, which I don't think she does.

[677] Well, you've worked in live TV, too, and I'm all nervous and crazy.

[678] And so you kind of calm me down.

[679] And this is great, too, about us is that we're never both nervous at the same time.

[680] No. One of us is freaking out, and the other one's fine and calms the other person down and vice versa.

[681] So I was freaking out about being on fucking live television, as you would.

[682] And Karen's worked in live TV a lot.

[683] So she was like, here's how it's going to go.

[684] There's going to be a producer that comes in.

[685] She'll brief us, blah, blah, blah.

[686] It'll be a little jarring because we're going to actually see Gail and the other two hosts on the set.

[687] But don't worry, whatever.

[688] Well, three minutes into us being in hair and makeup, Gayle King comes bounding in.

[689] Powerhouse.

[690] Literally went Karen and Georgia, like, did a thing.

[691] And we were both like our mouths are open.

[692] And then she opened the book And she had made notes And notes about George's stories were in blue And notes about my stories were in red She had read the book She had made notes, done research It was like above and beyond Yes What's the question?

[693] Movie deal So then the next day we went back and did the podcast That she hosted and we talked even more And at the end of that When she was walking out of the room we were like thank you so much it was great to meet you and then she was like a movie did she did that if she does it then she knows this was from taylorino this is book related this is how it starts this is book related how was doing that interview photo shoot for the hollywood reporter p .s y 'all look like four million bucks oh cute i thought i love a photo shoot man there's nothing i live more than getting fucking dolled up and photographed don't like looking at the photos after but i think super fun.

[694] I was in hell.

[695] The people couldn't have been nicer.

[696] They, the, you know, we were at Edendale.

[697] Edendale Grill, which is gorgeous.

[698] Used to be an old firehouse.

[699] It's the coolest restaurant.

[700] Yeah.

[701] But were you happy with how it turned out?

[702] I didn't look at it.

[703] You haven't looked at the photos?

[704] No, I just gave, um.

[705] Oren gave me like three copies.

[706] Uh -huh.

[707] And I just gave them to my dad and my sister.

[708] Oh, you look hot.

[709] Great.

[710] I mean, I'll never see it.

[711] That's just, Oh, Karen.

[712] It's just where we are right now.

[713] I got it.

[714] But I will say this.

[715] It was an honor.

[716] Okay, here's one for you.

[717] Okay.

[718] This is from Katz Bebe.

[719] Karen, what made you decide to write your chapter on the Canadian alderman and mention Paul Bernato?

[720] Fun fact, my uncle was one of his prison guards while he was on suicide watch when he was first arrested.

[721] Wow.

[722] Yeah.

[723] I guess because when we very first talked about doing that book, it was obviously they wanted the original voices that.

[724] were like helping us.

[725] There was suggestions of there should be really strong true crime kind of themes running through it.

[726] And we were, I think that also added to our, the delay when we didn't start writing it for so long was because it didn't feel right to.

[727] Yeah.

[728] It just, it isn't what we do.

[729] We're not true crime journalists.

[730] Right.

[731] We write reports based on other people's journalism.

[732] Yes.

[733] You know, which we're very aware of.

[734] Yeah.

[735] So then to just pretend to be crime to crime journalist just wasn't in our in our brains yeah and it wasn't something that came easily but in talking that's my friend um paul greenberg story that i talked about because it was it was basically my friend paul greenberg is from toronto and his mother had essentially a hometown where paul bernardo stalked her while she was swimming in her pool yes and she was older she was in her like 60s or 70s creepy a story and i remember when my friend paul told me that story and i just freak down and it was like it's the best story it's in the book whatever I love it so in telling that then it was like then I wanted to draw in and I'm sure Ali Fisher our editor made this suggestion too because she was like well you've done this so you might want to pull in some of the things that you learned when you were writing that right I think I did that Paul bernardo carlo homoka when we were in Toronto because I used an article that a woman wrote that was amazing she wrote an amazing article about him and how all that happened.

[736] And I drew from that.

[737] So it was like, I realized that was a chance to kind of pull in all these like cool writers, cool points.

[738] And it seemed to kind of get all of that taken care of in one spot, which is back in the day, which now it doesn't seem like that long ago, but like in the 80s, when people were faced with like a loose serial killer, serial rapist in their town, what they came up with was every lady stay home.

[739] Yeah.

[740] And that that is the old way, that that's the old way of criminal justice, the old way of law enforcement.

[741] Yeah.

[742] And that idea that I can't speak to anything about criminal justice or law enforcement in a real way, but I can quote other people that I think this whole wave of true crime popularity is about women going, yeah, we're not, not only are we not fucking staying home, but we're going to help solve these cases.

[743] Well, I think it's important that what you're writing it from a place of someone who has been scared of these things before as a woman and as a human being out in the world.

[744] It's, you know, we're talking about our own fears and our own anxiety and our own fucking reactions and angers to bullshit like that.

[745] So that's what we can do and we can offer.

[746] And thank you for mentioning it because I was really worried about that because that was one I had to like footnote and then the lawyer was like, we have to make sure because I didn't, I didn't want anybody to feel persecuted or anything.

[747] But also, like, let's make sure that doesn't happen anymore by saying it happened in the past.

[748] But yeah, that was a worrisome chapter because you had to get shit right or it's in there in writing.

[749] Yes, exactly.

[750] Like Nora's misspelling of her name.

[751] That is the craziest, funniest thing.

[752] In this first edition, someone slapped an H on the end of my niece's name.

[753] In the dedications.

[754] Her name is spelled N -O -R -A.

[755] And, of course, when I told her, she was like, that's okay.

[756] Like, she could give a shit.

[757] It's a collector.

[758] item now.

[759] It's a collector's item.

[760] Yeah, it's not.

[761] It's not.

[762] Well, so if the next three weeks we're going to be posting the top three episodes that you guys chose in the fan cult of all time, we're really excited to see what you guys pick.

[763] Yeah, that's very cool.

[764] Then we're back.

[765] And then we're gonna come back.

[766] Thank you guys for all of this.

[767] You know, we do get very, I especially get very self -conscious, but thank you for your grounding comments and support and questions.

[768] Ultimately, what you should know is that we've been having a really good time.

[769] This has been the vacation or the amazing.

[770] I think the whole thing.

[771] Yeah.

[772] I think the whole experience.

[773] The whole experience is surreal still.

[774] I still can't wrap my brain around it.

[775] I still get so excited what to get, you know, when a murderino comes up to me and and recognizes me, like, it's just exciting every time this whole fucking thing.

[776] It's very fun.

[777] And it's more than just, I talk to someone named Stephanie in Bloomingdale's the other day for like 10 minutes who stopped me and was like I'm so sorry and I'm like no I was just like standing around I'm immediately like in the middle of going to hug them as soon as they're like are you George and I'm like hugging you so yeah we're very grateful and thank you for the support I honestly was so scared that this book was going to suck shit oh I thought we were going to get like on Buzzfeed about what monsters we are thank you and stay sexy.

[778] And don't get murdered.

[779] Goodbye.

[780] Elvis, want a cookie?

[781] Rhaq.