S8 E5: Hostile As F*ck

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences.

[11] Episodes discuss topics that can be triggering, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, suicide, and murder.

[12] I'm not a therapist or a doctor.

[13] If you're in need of support, please visit something was wrong .com slash resources for a list of nonprofit organizations that can help.

[14] Some names on the podcast have been changed for anonymity purposes.

[15] Opinions expressed by guests on the show do not necessarily represent the views of myself or this podcast.

[16] Resources, references, source material, and sponsor info can be found in the episode notes.

[17] Thank you so much for listening.

[18] Here's Aridian's friend and previous co -worker, Amber.

[19] I started working in another building, another department, And one of my neighbors and I, we had met recently.

[20] Our daughters would become friends while playing outside.

[21] And this neighbor still worked at the town company.

[22] And she said, you know, we started talking.

[23] She told me she worked there and everything.

[24] And then she told me one day about some trauma that happened.

[25] And she told me, you know, mentioned Crystal in this situation about her lying about her husband being dead.

[26] And I was like, what do you mean?

[27] And she said, well, We were in training one day, and somebody mentioned Crystal.

[28] And Rids was like, yeah, no, that's my sister -in -law, like, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[29] And that person was like, oh, I'm, you know, I'm so sorry about your loss.

[30] And everybody was like, what?

[31] And then later, Zach, like, putting the pieces together was like, hold on, is her husband not dead?

[32] And then it came to light to everybody.

[33] And at this time, I think Crystal was still there, but very, quickly left.

[34] And I think that that's why she reached out to me and said, hey, are there any positions where you're at?

[35] Because all of her lies were about to come crashing down.

[36] And so that's when I found out that she had lied about it.

[37] And I like immediately, I think I reached out that same night to Eridian and was like, hey, what's going on?

[38] Like, I just heard this.

[39] And she was like, yeah, girl, it's crazy.

[40] And to me, Eridian is somebody who should be protected at all costs.

[41] Like, there's not enough people.

[42] in this world who are more inclined to listen than they are to talk and there's not enough people with gentle souls.

[43] I don't really much the kind of person that I think people like this prey on.

[44] This is the kind of person I can gaslight because they're not confrontational.

[45] This is the kind of person who I can lie about because they're not going to stand up for themselves.

[46] I don't have to worry about them getting so upset that they blurred out my secrets because I know that I can do this and run rugshot over them.

[47] It is disgusting to me that somebody could be so comfortable doing these things, right?

[48] Like, this is a building that has hundreds and hundreds of people inside of it and different levels of leadership and to be so bold and so confident to do all of these terrible things.

[49] I can't imagine a line.

[50] Crystal wouldn't be comfortable crossing on anybody.

[51] When I found out that she had lied, I think I was more just shocked at the audacity.

[52] shocked it.

[53] How good she wasn't at all.

[54] How had she spun this web of lies to so many different people over such a long period of time in such a small building, in such a tiny environment, and not one person busted her out.

[55] It is because these lies are all she does.

[56] To keep up with that many lies, that must be all you do.

[57] How do you have time to come across as this bubbly blonde when you are scheming that many lies.

[58] I truly don't, I'm, I'm shocked at how she did all this.

[59] Like, it's such a flimsy house of cards.

[60] How did you get it so tall?

[61] You think you know me, you don't know me at all.

[62] thinking of me you don't know me well you think you know me you don't know me Here's Aridian Things kind of like went downhill pretty fast In January after I found out everything that happened Within a month or two of 2019 Crystal actually moved to a different building So she got a new job so she was like out of the picture there was no more no more drama at work which was amazing however there was a lot of issues there were a lot of issues within the family there were group chats that constantly were getting so hostile because of politics Ben and I are actually very very left -leaning very like progressive if you will and they'll share articles and things like that that everyone knows is going to get a rise out of me and going to get a rise out of Ben.

[63] And so a little bit after Crystal moved to a different building for work, we had her birthday dinner.

[64] And at her birthday dinner, Ben actually ended up having one too many drinks and he absolutely ruined her dinner.

[65] He just ruined it completely.

[66] Instead of having a nice family get together.

[67] It was politics.

[68] It was yelling.

[69] It was dropping the F -bomb left and right.

[70] Just such an unpleasant experience.

[71] And I was embarrassed, very embarrassed.

[72] But when we got home, he was like, I don't care.

[73] I don't care.

[74] She doesn't deserve a happy birthday.

[75] And I just thought, you have your way of dealing with things.

[76] And I have a completely different way of dealing with things.

[77] I would have rather have been home that day instead of celebrating anything.

[78] But I guess Ben just wanted a rise out of his brother.

[79] Instead of Ben saying, hey, dude, your wife is spreading rumors about you at work.

[80] He wanted his brother to be like, hey man, what's your problem with my wife sort of thing?

[81] And that ended up actually happening.

[82] They ended up like talking to each other because Grant became very, he didn't like me and it was very clear that he didn't care for me all that much.

[83] He was civil towards me and even nice towards me when we were in person, but he would say things about politics that would, he would say, well, I'm questioning your moral characters and like, I'm questioning how good of a person you are just because of things that we didn't agree on in group chats.

[84] And so I guess they ended up having a talk with each other.

[85] And Grant came out to say, like, I know everything.

[86] And things didn't happen the way you said.

[87] But your girlfriend is spreading rumors about my wife and your girlfriend is terrible and all these things and make her stop.

[88] And then later on, when Ben told me all of this, he said, I know my brother.

[89] And I know that he probably already knew about Crystal in her affair.

[90] And that's why he's so angry with you because you found out.

[91] And so we just kind of left it with that.

[92] We both assume that he already knew and he was just not happy that someone else knew and that I may have, you know, accidentally brought the family in on her terribleness, I guess you could say.

[93] So Grant isn't admitting, though, to Ben that he knows about the affair.

[94] that's just kind of the impression that Ben walked away with.

[95] Oridian is making up all this stuff about Crystal.

[96] That's kind of, that's his perspective.

[97] Yeah, that's either his genuine perspective or that's what he is leading on, you know, I am making all of this up.

[98] The way that Ben explains it to me is that him and his brother are very, very similar to each other.

[99] And if he were in his brother's shoes, which, you know, none of us can know at all what we would act like unless we were in that position.

[100] But he said, like, if I were in my brother's shoes, I don't think I would have put up with that.

[101] That is awful.

[102] Those are big lies.

[103] We have a child.

[104] And he said that knowing his brother, he shouldn't have put up with that either, but he thinks that he is going to because they have a child together and because he thinks it's the right thing to do.

[105] So after Ben and Grant had their like little conversation, things were so weird because Ben and I were just like, we cannot stand being around them.

[106] But for the sake of the kids, for the sake of Lindsay and Ben's mom, we are going to be civil.

[107] We are going to be around each other and hang out and be a family.

[108] So the text messages, the group chats were hostile as fuck, if I may say, like, they were so bad.

[109] It wasn't just debating.

[110] It was like to the point where I was like, you guys are saying some racist shit and you don't even realize it.

[111] It got to the point where they would do things just because they knew it would get me upset.

[112] But when we were together in person, it was awkward, but everyone was like putting on a happy face.

[113] And it was so exhausting.

[114] Oh, my God.

[115] Crystal did like to do this thing where she would always text back people.

[116] You know how you can like a text message or like heart, a text message in I message.

[117] You can respond with like a little heart.

[118] Sometimes like Facebook lets you just respond with a thumb with like that thumb emoji.

[119] And so Crystal would do that.

[120] However, she would use an actual emoji, and she would apply the darkest filter she possibly could to it.

[121] So she would literally just send a black person color thumbs up.

[122] And it made me uncomfortable, and I didn't know why, but I kind of like looked into it.

[123] And even if she may not have realized it, it's actually a term called digital blackface.

[124] And it's when people who are particularly white or not black will share emojis in black face, you know, in the darkest skin color possible.

[125] And they think it's like they're doing it like to be ironic or to be like edgy or to make people uncomfortable or to make fun of people who are black.

[126] it's never like a genuine reason why someone's doing it.

[127] And I know there's like studies, papers written about it and things like that that go so far as talking about how people will use even like gifts that are particularly like centered around black people.

[128] It's in a way that they're almost mocking the way that someone who is black might react in a way that they're trying to use them as the new age caricatures.

[129] that's something that I look into a lot because sometimes I don't understand why I'm uncomfortable and I'm like surely somebody has been uncomfortable before and so I'll look into it and so that's where I learned that term that digital blackface and I just remember they kept doing it over and over Grant and Crystal every time there was a text message they would reply with the black thumbs up and I was like why for what reason literally what does this add to the conversation other than the fact that you know it makes me uncomfortable.

[130] You know that I'm the only person of color in this group chat.

[131] And none of you are of color, but you think it's funny.

[132] So what does that say about you?

[133] And I just remember saying something like, can we not?

[134] Can you not use a white skin tone because you are white?

[135] You know, can we stop making fun of black people or people of color, you know, particularly black people.

[136] And they just got to the point where they'd be like, like, ha, ha, okay, and then they would do it again.

[137] And it was just like, I knew they were doing it to upset me because they would do it when there were political conversations or when I was already upset and they wanted to make me more upset.

[138] I'm Dan Taberski.

[139] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[140] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[141] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[142] She's like, I can't.

[143] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spree.

[144] spreading fast.

[145] It's like doubling and tripling, and it's all these girls.

[146] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the download.

[147] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[148] Well, you were holding something back.

[149] Intentionally.

[150] Yeah, well, yeah.

[151] No, it's hysteria.

[152] It's all in your head.

[153] It's not physical.

[154] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[155] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the Witches of Salem?

[156] Or is it something else entirely?

[157] Something's wrong here.

[158] Something's not right.

[159] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[160] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[161] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[162] You can binge all episodes of Histerical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[163] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[164] I'm Sachi Cole.

[165] And I'm Sarah Hagey.

[166] And we're the host of Scam Fluencers, a weekly podcast from Wondon.

[167] that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once a facade falls away.

[168] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King, and no real product to push.

[169] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

[170] To the infamous scams of real housewife stars like Teresa Judici, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[171] Follow scam influencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[172] You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad -free right now on Wondry Plus.

[173] There was a point in time where that family group chat that we were a part of was just so hostile.

[174] Like it was just so angry all the time and I think, a family group chat is supposed to be one of those times where you, you connect with your family and you guys like talk about things together.

[175] And at first, yeah, that's what this was.

[176] It was very much like, oh my God, look at these pictures of the kids.

[177] Look at these pictures of the pets.

[178] Look at what we've done to our house.

[179] Look what we're working on.

[180] Let's all celebrate so -and -so, happy birthday, things like that.

[181] Like, that's how it began.

[182] But in the end, I'm going to blame a lot of it on the hostility and the divide that came with politics.

[183] So because of that, it just became a lot of like back and forth and just it was so mentally draining and so exhausting to constantly feel like if you turn on your phone, you're going to be in a direct political debate.

[184] And if you don't say anything, you're letting them win.

[185] And I think, that they, I think that they knew that that's how I personally felt and that I, it's not so much that I don't like losing, but so much that I don't like letting someone who's wrong, continue to be wrong and continue to spread false information or ignorance.

[186] So they definitely kind of prayed on that in terms of like targeting me and seeing ways that they thought it would be funny to kind of upset me, especially in this group chat.

[187] And a lot of it came from things that I would post on social media.

[188] I use Facebook a lot, a lot, just to reach people that I know.

[189] I've had various accounts where I openly speak about something and I'll have somebody that maybe I don't know too well or maybe I haven't spoken since I was in high school.

[190] And they'll say something like, I really like what you said.

[191] Could you maybe like explain to me a little bit more what's going on?

[192] Or like, could you tell me how you feel about this?

[193] Like I would love to know why I could learn more or if you could kind of dumb it down for me or like give me resources, things like that.

[194] And I am very particular about that.

[195] And I 100 % don't know everything, not even a little bit, but I pride myself on researching a lot of what I want to know.

[196] And trying to understand things that I don't understand and be a teachable person, especially like as a very white passing Hispanic woman.

[197] You know, my own experiences are very, very different from that of my brother, who is much darker skin than I am.

[198] And my experiences, mine and my dad's experiences were very, very light skin are very different from my mom's.

[199] And our experiences together speaking in Spanish are very, very different than someone who doesn't speak Spanish.

[200] because of that, I had very many moments where I would kind of pop off on Facebook and some people might say like, oh, what's the point?

[201] But I've seen things like that change people's minds and change people's perspectives.

[202] And even if it's just one person and even if it's just to show your support, even if you're not changing anybody's minds or just that one person's minds, like I think it matters.

[203] So there was one day in 2019 where after, all these group chats and after everybody was kind of targeting me for my beliefs and for what I had to say, which mind you is very, very progressive left leaning compared to our very conservative state that we live in.

[204] We live in a very red state.

[205] I'm not the only one that's like this, but you see a lot more conservatives in our area, including my partner's family.

[206] Something that I posted personally, I usually just like share things, but I personally post.

[207] But I personally post, posted this, and I'm going to go ahead and read it like word for word, but it says it's getting really, really hard not to pop off on so many of those ignorant posts and comments about the Migration Detention Center situation at hand.

[208] Those ignorant comments are hurtful, uneducated, and dehumanizing to a whole community.

[209] And before believing whatever Fox News tells you, do some research through more reliable sources, before just believing that these situations could easily be avoided by, quote, going back to your own country, do more research on what's happening and how these real human lives are being affected.

[210] Do more research on the maltreatment of minority community groups around this country.

[211] Do your research before sharing ignorant posts and comments.

[212] You might actually see how messed up our systems are at handling so many things.

[213] People are fleeing their home countries for a reason.

[214] And people that are already in this country are afraid for a reason.

[215] So when I shared that, I was friends with Ben's family on Facebook.

[216] I was also friends with Crystal and her mom on social media on Facebook just because I had met her on that Christmas where they got engaged and at the wedding.

[217] And I remember one of my favorite teachers commented and said that these were good words and she was proud of me. it was so validating and like I felt heard and all these things.

[218] Well, I wish that were the only thing that happened.

[219] Crystal's mom actually ended up making a comment.

[220] She didn't like what I had to say.

[221] And she let me know that she personally has family members that work for ICE and that her family member has experienced a lot and it's not all that it seems.

[222] Basically, she was trying to let me know that her family members experience.

[223] being an ICE agent, which is an immigration police officer, basically, someone that works on the border to keep people from migrating in my experience and from what I know of my community and what's shared within my community being Hispanic and knowing so many people who have immigrated here from other countries.

[224] The way that ice works is not very ethical.

[225] you know, the way that people talk about police brutality, it parallels in ICE as well.

[226] So having Crystal's mom reach out to me to tell me that in a sense, what I felt like it sounded like was, you're wrong.

[227] I know someone that works for ICE and they say things very differently than what you're saying.

[228] It's not all that it seems.

[229] It's not all that you're making it out to be.

[230] I did comment back and I said that it's not all it seems.

[231] for my community either.

[232] I know people that have migrated to this country for a better life, and I also have family that have experienced some unspeakable things just for being Hispanic, just for speaking Spanish and very clearly not being white.

[233] And I told her that if all the information that someone gets is from Fox News and someone who works from ICE, I can very much understand why that person might be not well informed.

[234] And her only response to me was, well, as long as they're here legally, then they deserve to be here.

[235] Other than that, they're wrong.

[236] And so I told her that, and I'm going to edit some things out just for the privacy of my own community and some people that I know, I just responded with, our system is broken and impossible.

[237] The humane treatment of people shouldn't depend on their status.

[238] And the way that she's speaking is such an uneducated and dehumanizing way of classifying a community.

[239] And believe it or not, it's insulting.

[240] I said, I decided to share my thoughts because of very comments like your own.

[241] Do your own research before sharing ignorant posts and comments.

[242] I stand by my statement and I told her to please have a wonderful day.

[243] In my own words, please fuck off.

[244] As kindly as I could possibly say it, the way that it happened, it was very foretelling of where Crystal learned to be the way that she is.

[245] Because her showing her colors really did say a lot.

[246] And honestly, that's not even where the exchange ended.

[247] That was just what sparked the real problem.

[248] I personally feel like the reason why Crystal's mom commented on my Facebook post.

[249] I think it's because Crystal was going over to her moms and saying, like, this girl is being mean to me. This girl is bullying me at work.

[250] She's making life hard for me and Grant, things like that, because it was definitely after I started to find out things and I eventually told Ben and I eventually confided in Lindsay about it, which just by telling Ben and Lindsay, things got back.

[251] to their mom.

[252] So she knew that I knew, and that's why so much hostility was coming through.

[253] It wasn't just because of politics.

[254] It was because they were using politics and harassing me over politics as a way to poke at me even more.

[255] They were using it as like a weapon.

[256] After that quick exchange on social media, it happened like within probably 10 or 15 minutes, all those comments.

[257] Crystal's mom went on her own social media to make her own post because I guess she wasn't getting the backing that she thought she would by commenting on my own.

[258] So she made her own post.

[259] She did not tag me, but it was very, very directed at me. She said, I don't normally post political things or religious things because I do not like controversy.

[260] However, here it goes.

[261] illegal immigrants have taken advantage of us, of our education system, and have not learned anything from what we have to offer, not even simple manners.

[262] They go through the system and act self -entitled.

[263] If you want to be here so badly, do it legally and learn to live the way of U .S. citizens.

[264] I can't even take my eyes off my grandchild or any child in public because of increased sex trafficking.

[265] Disease and crime has progressed exponentially.

[266] I just pray for our country.

[267] I'm so sorry.

[268] That was so frustrating to hear.

[269] It was so angering and it was very clearly, clearly directed at myself and just the fact that I mentioned, like, I come from a community that has experienced, you know, abuse and maltreatment and just calling people illegals and like aliens and things like that.

[270] Like I know that's what the news uses and I know that's like the technical term that everyone likes to say like I'm just being politically correct.

[271] But no, it's it's rude and it's hurtful.

[272] And those words are very, very dehumanizing.

[273] And that's how I felt when she said that, it was so, I just remember I was at work and I just started crying.

[274] I know she could have said some words that are way more hurtful.

[275] She could have said slurs.

[276] She could have said, commented my name on there and like made it far more direct.

[277] But in the hour or two after that, I just remember seeing her and her friends going back and forth in the comments, just saying some ignorant shit, very, very, very racist stuff, not even just like what she said on the main post, just like comments after comments of people praising her and telling her how brave she was for sharing her honest thoughts and how we should all be afraid for our children and basically in a sense reiterating this whole shithole country's rhetoric.

[278] That's what I was seeing in the comments.

[279] And it wasn't until this one gentleman that I don't know commented and told her that there was so much bigotry in her post.

[280] He was like, I've never seen so much bigotry in one post.

[281] And she told her, she told him that he needed to shut it.

[282] And she came back with all this sex trafficking situation.

[283] Like our world is we have to pray for our country and, you know, they're ruining our lives sort of thing and just racist stuff.

[284] And he just said something like I'm, I'm literally an immigrant attorney.

[285] I am a defense attorney for people that are trying to be naturalized citizens that are trying to be a part of this country.

[286] And I've heard it all.

[287] I've heard all of their stories.

[288] My degrees and things like this.

[289] And I remember everyone.

[290] in her comments was like, oh, I hate when people just think they know everything because they're showing off that they have degrees.

[291] And I just remember thinking, if someone has a degree in a field and their profession is to help people and listen to their stories, why would you think that they are not a valid source for something?

[292] Why would you think that that discredits them?

[293] And they were just, that's what they were doing.

[294] They were discrediting him.

[295] I just remember seeing those comments and reading those posts and the only beacon of light that I saw in so much bigotry was this random person that I don't even know commenting to say, you are such a racist.

[296] And that's what it was.

[297] It was racism.

[298] That was bigotry at his finest.

[299] If anything, I hope that gives a little bit of insight as to who raised Crystal.

[300] I don't hate people.

[301] I never say I hate so and so.

[302] I hate this or that, you know, I don't like using that word openly.

[303] But this interaction really, really, really made me despise her mother.

[304] And I interacted with her maybe once or twice after that.

[305] And she acted like nothing happened.

[306] And it was almost like she was a completely different person.

[307] And I see a lot of that reflected in Crystal and who she is as a person.

[308] And it's truly disgusting.

[309] My other beacon of light in these comments actually ended up coming from Ben's mom.

[310] And I know I've said he, his mom is very conservative.

[311] She's a very religious lady.

[312] And I see her in a very different light than I see a lot of people in this area.

[313] She wants to live her life in a very truthful way.

[314] One of the times that she actually stood up for me so, so much and like so like I am not moving from this spot was actually when this happened was during this post.

[315] Crystal's mom used to have an at home daycare like I previously mentioned and we came to find out that her daycare was actually not not really legal.

[316] It wasn't really licensed.

[317] They weren't following many rules and regulations that is expected of at home daycares.

[318] And Ben's mom used to have a legit at home daycare so she knew this.

[319] And Ben's mom came through and actually said something backing me up saying that she needed to stay in her own lane.

[320] And I'm trying to see if maybe I have those comments.

[321] And I do actually.

[322] She said, wow, disgusting child molesters come in every color.

[323] Yes, you should always keep an eye on little children.

[324] Why don't you get legal and get a real child care license and claim your proper true share of taxes.

[325] I've kept my mouth shut to keep the piece, but many of your practices are unsanitary.

[326] And I'm not going to let you hurt my daughter so you can feel better about yourself.

[327] Get your own act together and be a little kinder.

[328] And how did that make you feel?

[329] Honestly, that made me feel so good because on many occasions I wanted to say that.

[330] I wanted to say your business is illegal, who are you to talk?

[331] Like the irony is just festering, you know, like there's so much irony and who are you to say that to me?

[332] It felt really good to have somebody on my side and not just somebody, but my own partner's mom, my own boyfriend's mom there to say she is like a daughter to me and I've got her back.

[333] It was so, I'm going to keep saying validating.

[334] Like, it was so validating and just I felt a sense of family for the first time, in a really long time, being a part of this family specifically.

[335] And the reason we found out about this is because Lindsay screenshotsed their mom's response and sent it to me and Ben in a group chat and said, oh my God, look what mom has done.

[336] And, I was with Ben and he was like cracking up.

[337] He thought it was so funny and Lindsay was like, you're her daughter.

[338] Like you, she sees you as her daughter.

[339] Even though Crystal is convinced that you're not a part of this family, that she's more important than you.

[340] You are also her daughter.

[341] And we're not going to let someone bully you because of this.

[342] And I'm glad that she stood up for you, that sort of thing.

[343] After this happened, I guess Crystal's mom started blowing up Grant's phone while he was at work.

[344] Crystal started blowing up Grant's phone while he was at work.

[345] And one thing that I don't get is exactly what they were saying about what I had done.

[346] Because it still to this day doesn't make sense to me how they could have convinced Grant that I was the one that was in the wrong.

[347] If you're a good, level -headed, minded person, someone who is not about racism and things like that, there is no way that you would see this.

[348] You can't look at these text messages or at this interaction on Facebook and make a judgment, an objective judgment, and say, oh, my God, Orridian was in the wrong.

[349] Like, you just can't do that if you're seeing the true context.

[350] And that's the same for Crystal actually ended up convincing Grant from what I understand that I made up rumors about her at work and that I have ruined her life at work.

[351] And just like thinking back on it, like I don't know how that would even work because that would mean that I would have to convince everyone that her husband died and then convince everyone that that was something that she made up and then tell everyone that her husband was alive.

[352] or just telling the truth that her husband was not dead caused problems for her.

[353] And that's just like incriminating in itself for her.

[354] So I really don't know what the narrative was that was like spilled off to him or twisted around for him.

[355] The reason I say that is because I guess later on Grant ended up showing up at his mom's house, very, very upset that day.

[356] because of what his mom said.

[357] I guess when Grant showed up, very, very upset, Ben's mom ended up leaving, you know, their house, leaving the house, stepping outside to have a chat with him.

[358] He was so mad.

[359] He was yelling, fuming because of what happened.

[360] But like I said, I don't know what they told him that had happened.

[361] I really don't know because I don't know how he could have been mad.

[362] From what I understand, the words he had to say were, I don't know why you're backing up Aridian over my wife.

[363] She's not family.

[364] My wife is.

[365] She means nothing to us.

[366] My wife should mean something to you.

[367] She's the daughter of my child, of your granddaughter.

[368] And that one is a murderer.

[369] She's a baby killer.

[370] And she means nothing to me or to my family.

[371] and she certainly means nothing to my daughter.

[372] I'm so sorry.

[373] Thank you.

[374] The reason I came to learn this was because Ben's mom actually told Ben that everything had happened because she was starting to feel really guilty for standing up for me, and not so much for standing up for me, but for embarrassing Crystal's mom on social media and for causing more problems with her son and his wife.

[375] and so she told him everything that he had said and it actually hurt Ben a lot.

[376] So he, I didn't know why he was so upset, but he came back and told me everything.

[377] It wasn't just that his mom told him everything.

[378] There was one point in time where he was actually with his mom and helping her like in the yard or something.

[379] And they were looking things up on her phone or something like that, but he ended up seeing the group.

[380] that Crystal had made for Crystal, Grant, Crystal's mom, and Ben's mom.

[381] And so in that group chat, it was a lot of Crystal and Crystal's mom attacking, getting angry about how Crystal isn't treated fairly and she's not a favorite, like, quote, unquote, me, and it was also in writing in those text messages that Ben saw that they said, I believe it was Grant that said that I was a murderer, a baby killer, and that I meant nothing to their daughter.

[382] And by this point, I didn't see Daisy very much anyways other than like her birthday parties and everything.

[383] But Lindsay's kids, I actually, like there were times where I was able to pick up one of the girls from school and like spend the day with them and things like that.

[384] So in my eyes, like they were my nieces and nephews.

[385] They were children that I had seen grow up for a really long time that I had seen in diapers and now like learning to read sort of thing.

[386] So it was so hurtful to hear that.

[387] And when Ben told me, I like, had to pry it out of him why he was so upset and I know he was telling the truth because he why would he lie about that you know like why would he tell me something so hurtful that someone else is saying if it wasn't for a reason and the reason why he really ended up telling me is because I was so quick to forgive and forget like I was very very quick to be like that's your brother please you know try to make up with your brother try to talk things out.

[388] And it got to the point where he told me, I want nothing to do with that guy.

[389] Like, I don't want anything to have to do with him.

[390] And I especially want nothing to have to do with his, with his wife.

[391] And it took me convincing him to tell me why.

[392] Like, I didn't understand what had changed, what had changed.

[393] I didn't really get why this sudden, like, hostility towards his brother was.

[394] And it was because of that.

[395] It was because his brother made it very clear.

[396] And, And Crystal, too.

[397] I'm sure a lot of that was Crystal's words.

[398] But Crystal and her mom were very manipulative.

[399] And they know that if they're upset and if they make a big scene and they get a rise out of each other, they can get a rise out of Grant.

[400] And they can basically, you know, have him act on their behalf rather than his own or whatever he wishes to be his own behalf.

[401] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[402] She had been under the influence.

[403] she left him there.

[404] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[405] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[406] What happens next?

[407] Depends on who you ask.

[408] Was it a crime of passion?

[409] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[410] This was clearly an intentional act.

[411] and his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[412] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[413] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[414] Everyone had an opinion.

[415] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[416] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[417] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of this.

[418] sensational case in Karen.

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[421] So after this incident happened with Grant and his mom and like me and Crystal's mom, I never got any sort of apology for that from anyone ever.

[422] I eventually got the chance to stand up for myself.

[423] It was that summer of 2019 where Daisy had a birthday party and it was literally like a week after this whole Facebook incident happened and it was like it was so soon after like I don't know how we could have gone comfortably to this thing but we did we ended up going and me and Ben and Lindsay and Ben's mom we all sat at our own table by ourselves and I just.

[424] remember seeing like Crystal's cousins were highballing me and just like mean mugging me the whole time and just whispering about all of us and just very very clearly annoyed about the fact that we were all together and that people were sitting with me and talking with me and having a good time with me and Ben.

[425] I used to make it a point to always gift the kids books.

[426] For any kid's birthday, I would kind of try and do books, especially for Daisy because she was so young and, like, so little.

[427] I remember Crystal was opening presents with Daisy, and she made Daisy open all of her presents on her own.

[428] So she was opening, they kind of kept, like, going around our gift.

[429] And it was a very small one because it was just like the two books, but they kept, like, avoiding our gift.

[430] it's so petty and I know it's so petty but it was just so annoying to see well that was the one gift that Crystal did not let Daisy open on her own crystal actually opened it in front of everyone on her own she didn't let the child open it and after she opened it she just unwrapped it and tossed both books kind of like off to the side and Ben wasn't paying attention because he was like over it.

[431] He's like, I don't even want to be here.

[432] I was paying attention because I love watching kids open presents.

[433] But yeah, I was like a little hurt.

[434] And like I am a very sensitive person and things like that.

[435] They will hurt my feelings a little bit.

[436] But I am also rational enough to understand that like not everything's about me and not everyone's out to get me or like to make me feel bad.

[437] But that's not the case with Crystal.

[438] Everything she does is intentional, very intentional and she knows what she's doing and she knows how to jab at you and how to get under your skin to the point where if you point it out, you're going to look crazy or you're going to look like the delusional one or she is the good one.

[439] That means no harm.

[440] And you just have it out for her.

[441] So I didn't say anything right off the bat.

[442] We were civil in person because we had to be.

[443] But we weren't really civil in real life because they threw such a big fit about Ben's mom backing me up and they chose to ignore what Crystal's mom said.

[444] I felt like I was forced to pretend like nothing happened and Ben was forced to pretend like nothing happened even though we were both very miserable being around them.

[445] All of that to say that this is actually the first time I stood up for myself in my whole interaction with Crystal, like everything in general.

[446] There came a time where she constantly, constantly would text me. Angry texts.

[447] I'm sorry, texts.

[448] I'm a good person text.

[449] And I just stopped responding at one point because I was so tired of it.

[450] Well, this time she said, and I'm going to go ahead and just like read word for word, just because I'm very proud of myself, but she said, hi, look, I'm sick of not getting along with my family.

[451] I hate it more than anything.

[452] I'm sorry for the drama of the past.

[453] Truly, I hoped more than anything that we could all move forward.

[454] You guys may never like me, but that sucks.

[455] Not my bubble, not my problem.

[456] Side note, not my bubble, not my problem.

[457] That's actually something that Ben used to say all the time.

[458] She said, However, I am sorry for the troubles and for the sake of my family, I wish we could just all get along and things were different.

[459] I want to truly move forward and all I want for my family is for them to be happy and for everyone to be happy.

[460] I just hate this so much.

[461] So my response to her was, I honestly don't know what your deal is.

[462] Oh, my God.

[463] What did I ever honestly do to you?

[464] for you to be the way that you are towards us, me especially.

[465] You have made it very clear on multiple occasions that I'm not, quote, family.

[466] And now you're blaming more of your problems with, quote, your family on me?

[467] I honestly would like to know because all I've been able to figure out is that you're pissed about the fact that I accidentally stepped into your messy double life that you had going for yourself at work.

[468] And the thing is, I wasn't even the one that told everybody.

[469] You told me that you told your husband that I made up rumors about you at work.

[470] You are flat out rude to me and Ben and make a point to pretend that we aren't around when we are.

[471] Then you throw a temper tantrum and say that we ignore you and hate you.

[472] You make up lies left and right and it's not fooling anyone.

[473] Your real intentions always shine through, lady, even when you try and victimize yourself.

[474] It really seems like you think you can do whatever you want and be as mean as you want.

[475] until you get put back in your place.

[476] Then you're right back here asking me to, quote, stop causing problems for you.

[477] I'll give you a prime example.

[478] Daisy's birthday, I watched you make her open every single present except for ours, which you open for yourself and tossed aside.

[479] Even other people watched it happen and they said they were hoping that Ben and I hadn't noticed.

[480] That's whatever.

[481] The reason I mention it is because on our way out, we stopped to say goodbye to you, both and we specifically mentioned for the second time the books that we got for Daisy and you said you saw them.

[482] But for some reason, you twisted the truth and told everyone that we didn't even bother to say goodbye to you, even though we had a full conversation.

[483] How were we supposed to know that you were all pissed about something that you just made up?

[484] Aside from that, the only other real problem was the one that your mother brought on herself with her incredibly racist and hypocritical posts and comments.

[485] When you guys do stuff like that, don't expect it not to backlash on you.

[486] And when you head out to throw a temper tantrum about my response to you right now, just keep in mind that you texted me and you didn't even bother to apologize on behalf of your mother's racism.

[487] It seems like you're at the root of your own issues.

[488] And so for the sake of this family and for the sake of moving forward, cut the crap.

[489] It felt so good to say that to her.

[490] And I held back a lot of what I wish I would have said.

[491] And I'm not even going to give her the satisfaction of reading her response because it was the same back and forth.

[492] I'm a good person.

[493] I'm sorry.

[494] You're mean to me. You're causing problems for my family.

[495] No one likes me. You all hate me. And other than that giant, giant text that she sent me in response, she sent a separate text that said wow period black thumbs up emoji when i sent that very anxious and i don't think i actually fully processed like how good it felt to say those things until later on when i actually went back and reread that just a few days ago i realized that i would love to share that because i was very proud of myself um because i don't think i've ever stood up to someone that has treated me so badly and made me feel like just an awful person.

[496] And I just, I deeply know that that's not who I am.

[497] You know, I'm a work in progress.

[498] And I have said and believed ignorant things in the past and we're all learning.

[499] But that's why I pride myself on constantly being teachable and learning things because I know that no one's 100 % done.

[500] And so, no, I'm not.

[501] the best person ever.

[502] And I'm not only a good person, but I know that I'm not a bad person.

[503] After I sent this text and we had so much back and forth and, you know, those text messages that were very like predictable, it was almost like she was going back and forth.

[504] I eventually just ended up saying like, this is exhausting and in a sense wanting to tell her to please leave me alone.

[505] She took that as I'm accepting your apology.

[506] And so I use that to my advantage.

[507] I let her believe that I am that goalable and that I am that easy to manipulate.

[508] I said what I wanted to and I am just going to kind of stay in my own lane because things were like on that up and up and like things were clearing out a little bit or so it seemed.

[509] Everyone decided we're going to go on vacation because we had never all been on on a family vacation together and everyone was under the impression that all was good.

[510] And that vacation was supposed to happen spring to summerish of 2020.

[511] And so like as we all know, it didn't happen because the pandemic hit and everything was awful.

[512] But before that, we were preparing for for all of that.

[513] So when it was still 2019, towards the end, especially Crystal and Lindsay, they had this nail technician that they loved going to.

[514] And he, like, would pride himself on being very exclusive and, like, only taking clients that were recommended to him.

[515] But Lindsay ended up recommending that I go to him.

[516] And I guess Crystal had been going to him for some time because of Lindsay.

[517] And we all went and got our nails done together.

[518] So I ended up starting.

[519] to go to this nail technician, this nail guy.

[520] And I was like, oh my God, this is so fancy.

[521] I would go every other weekend, get my Starbucks and just like enjoy it.

[522] But this guy, it got to the point where he told me like, it kind of feels like you and Crystal don't like each other.

[523] And I was like, no, it's not really like that.

[524] Like, I don't know this guy.

[525] Why would I tell him that?

[526] But eventually he started kind of like trying to gain my trust and telling me like things.

[527] that she would mention about me. For example, I guess one thing that he said that she mentioned, and I take this with a grain of salt, but also I can really see her saying this.

[528] But one thing that she mentioned was, I guess, in her eyes that I was jealous of her because I wanted to be married so badly.

[529] And I think the reason why that came to be is because Ben's family, always talks about marriage.

[530] They always talk about when are you guys going to get married?

[531] When are you guys going to have kids?

[532] It's just like always brought up.

[533] And so I got to the point where I'm like, yeah, I'm excited to, you know, take this next step, take this adventure with my, with my boyfriend.

[534] And, you know, but at the time, like that wasn't in the cards for us, like that we were growing and learning and going through shit and just like trying to become our own people so that's not something that was that I was so focused on right then and there we would talk about marriage and how exciting it would be and like things that would be fun about wedding planning and things like that but it wasn't like oh my God we're going to do it right now to me when he said like crystal was is under the impression that I'm jealous of her because I want to be married so badly and because I'm jealous of her family and what a beautiful family she has and the fact that she has a child.

[535] I can believe her saying that because I can believe that it has a lot of underlining messages and a lot of unspoken connotations.

[536] For example, our decision to not proceed with a pregnancy or our decision to not be married right now.

[537] But this guy was just, like, loving it.

[538] And he was, like, thinking, like, she would never lie to me, but I know what kind of person she is.

[539] And he would tell me, like, I know everything.

[540] We had a fight again over the group chats.

[541] Everyone was planning dinner.

[542] And I got so sick of their black thumbs up.

[543] ironic use of non -white emojis.

[544] Someone said, can everybody go to dinner?

[545] And Grant said, no, we won't make it.

[546] And then he sent like a black thumbs up.

[547] And I sent back like a, a gift or something that was kind of rude.

[548] Like, okay, like no one cares or something like that.

[549] And this was all I was at work.

[550] And mind you, Crystal's desk was just a few desks away from mine, like a few cubicle rows away from mine and I could hear her and her friends laughing at me and I could hear them talking about me and talking about what they were going to say in response and just like mocking me. I'm telling you there's so much back and forth.

[551] Like we would make up and then it was back to the pettiness and then we would pretend there was no pettiness but there was.

[552] So like there's all this stuff happening just like intertwined.

[553] But yeah, we decided that we were all going to go on vacation.

[554] Things were kind of like calming down a little bit, if you might say.

[555] Later on, the nail guy was so, he would pride himself so much on the fact that Crystal would never lie to him.

[556] She canceled an appointment with him at one point.

[557] And without telling him, she just didn't show up.

[558] And like for him, this was not usually the case.

[559] Like he had people waiting to come see him.

[560] He ended up texting her and saying like, hey, what's going on, girl?

[561] up.

[562] And she said, I just came from the doctors.

[563] My mom is dying of cancer.

[564] She only has so long to live and I just found out this morning.

[565] So he felt awful for texting her.

[566] But honestly, her mom does not have cancer.

[567] He actually figured it out very quickly that same day because he ended up getting in contact with Lindsay.

[568] Because he was concerned also.

[569] It wasn't just that.

[570] he didn't trust her.

[571] He was concerned for her, for this, like, very loyal customer that he felt he had a very real, you know, friendship with.

[572] But yeah, he ended up texting Lindsay to ask her if everything was okay and everything.

[573] And Lindsay said, her mom does not have cancer.

[574] And I'll prove it to you.

[575] So Lindsay texted Crystal's mom to ask her how she was feeling.

[576] And if she was okay, like health -wise and things like that.

[577] And Crystal's mom was like, oh, I'm great.

[578] She's like, I'm doing awesome.

[579] I feel really good.

[580] And so Lindsay was like, hmm, interesting.

[581] And just let the nail guy know.

[582] And I don't know if she sent him a screenshot or what, but was like, that's Crystal's mom.

[583] And Crystal's mom is perfectly fine.

[584] She definitely did not, she definitely did not get news of cancer this morning.

[585] Next time.

[586] You think you know me, you don't know me well at all.

[587] Something Was Wrong is produced and hosted by me, Tiffany Reese.

[588] Music on this episode from Glad Rags.

[589] Check out their album, Wonder Under.

[590] If you'd like to help support the growth of something was wrong, you can help by leaving a positive review, sharing the podcast with your family, friends, and followers, and support at patreon .com slash something was wrong.

[591] Thank you so much for listening.

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