#1546 - Evan Hafer & Mat Best

[0] Check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night All day Hello gentlemen We're rolling We're rolling Only shit Evan and Matt I've known you guys For a long time And I've enjoyed your coffee For a long time So I'm happy you guys Could come on here And talk some shit I appreciate it I love it I love being on shows with Matt Especially with you This is fucking incredible Dude your Ridiculous setup That you put in the kitchen With all the coffee And the espresso I videotaped it so people could see, but the measuring of the weight of the grams of the express, I know you got into it, you were into coffee before you were in the military, right?

[1] Yeah.

[2] And then you started bringing coffee and a roaster and a whole setup with you overseas.

[3] But like, were you this, like, measuring it and the exact temperature of the water and all that jazz?

[4] Oh, yeah.

[5] I think, like, way back in late 90s, I guess, is probably where it all.

[6] began.

[7] And I always say this where, you know, every good story starts with a, with a good chick, basically.

[8] And I met this barista back in the late 90s.

[9] And she turned me on to espresso.

[10] So I started really going down the rabbit hole and coffee.

[11] So she was just like really into espresso or something?

[12] She wasn't.

[13] She was just, she was hot.

[14] And she was a barista.

[15] So, but that was the, the, the gateway to this entire thing.

[16] And then as I continued to kind of evolve my coffee nerd, you know, sense of me, I kind of was like, well, you know what, this green beret thing sounds pretty cool.

[17] I would love to be able to do that, jump out of planes and maybe overthrow some countries.

[18] That sounds pretty rad.

[19] But it never left.

[20] And so I was still way into coffee.

[21] I was roasting coffee on fires and on my stove and getting a different weird espresso machines.

[22] And the funny thing is back when I was an SF guy, people would make fun of me all the time.

[23] Like, you hipster, douchebag, what do you do?

[24] If we were together, I would have made fun of you a lot.

[25] You're like, sweet, 30 minutes to make a cup of coffee, what are you fucking doing?

[26] What are you doing?

[27] Well, that's why it's a funny contrast between this badass Special Forces guy and someone is like really meticulous with their coffee.

[28] No cream.

[29] Don't you dare.

[30] No way.

[31] Jack Carr kind of makes fun of it in his books where he talks about like putting honey and his black rifle coffee and half of it is just to kind of mock the fact that people who really love coffee won't put anything in it it's a travesty they won't and jack is one of my friends so when he when he came out to the house he was doing research for his book i was making him a cup of coffee and he was like dude this is fucking insane like how long is this going to take it was like man it takes as long as it takes so that entire setup that we just put in your studio I had that in my coffee lab in my house, that entire thing.

[32] Wow.

[33] And I'm out here and I was roasting coffee on my stove and going way down the rabbit hole with Jack.

[34] And he's taking notes, you know, for his book.

[35] And he's a former seal, you know, so we're talking shit.

[36] And he's like, you must have just been picked on in the teams, right?

[37] I was like, yeah, maybe, yeah, I guess.

[38] That's like, you know, I was like, if you just have to run fast, because if you're going to do something weird like this.

[39] You got to be able to run really fast, do a lot of fucking pull -ups and push -ups, and shoot really well.

[40] I think that was one of the things where I was like, man, I got to be really good at all these things because it's got to offset all my debaggery over here.

[41] With coffee.

[42] People have to respect you, even though you're so balls deep in a coffee.

[43] It's an interesting story.

[44] When we both had similar professions post -military as contractors, and I was in this bob, and I'm sitting there, I'm like, why the fuck is there this, like, $50 ,000 espresso machine for a very small base in the middle of nowhere.

[45] We'll come to find three hours three years later.

[46] I'm trying with Evan.

[47] I'm like, yeah, dude, I don't know the agency bought some stupid ass espresso.

[48] He's like, yep, that was me. So he convinced the supply or NCO or whoever to offer to buy this super intricate freaking espresso machine in the middle of nowhere.

[49] I'm like, of course it was you.

[50] Of course it was you.

[51] So that's the exactly.

[52] So the entire story.

[53] So I'm working at the agency then.

[54] So fast forward a few years later.

[55] And the logistics person came to me, and he or she was like, hey, what kind of an espresso machine or coffee machine should be buying?

[56] And it was like, oh, don't worry.

[57] I'll send you the links to it.

[58] And it was like $30 ,000 espresso machine.

[59] I imported it from Italy and had it flown in through some other logistics situation.

[60] And she's like, so this is it.

[61] I'm like, yeah, but we still need a grinder too, right?

[62] and that was something that kind of lived in not only like infamy that I'd gotten the entire logistic system to buy me this express machine from there was no oversight like no one was like looking at the accounts and going what the fuck is contrary to popular belief you know congressional oversight and budgets at times is a little bit hazy when you're in war they just kind of say here's lump sum you know here you go here's 23 million dollars as long as you can justify it maybe we'll be okay uh well you know how the government works too at the end of a fiscal year they're like we got some money to spend or we don't get this budget next year and honestly in iraq early on it it was like a dumpster fire with cash just the tax dollars that were just burnt in that place and just dumb shit you couldn't even imagine if when i look back on it now as a guy that's very vested in what's happening to my tax dollars i'm like what the fuck were these idiots doing like this is so dumb it was so dumb like what was besides espresso machines what was the other ridiculous shit that the money was being spent on oh well i here's a great example so uh and i've got a myriad of them but uh we had a field of uparmored vehicles that were really fucking expensive like 500 000 dollars a pop give or take we couldn't take him anywhere because they were so obvious that it was a up armored vehicle that you just drive around and people would want to take pot shots at you for the fun of it.

[63] So you have these beautiful half a million to a million dollars that you can't use.

[64] So you got to go when we're working in the low -vis capacity means like you're just trying to blend in, just not get shot, man. Like don't pick a fight.

[65] Like let's just blend in, do our job, get the fuck out of here.

[66] But if you have a really expensive looking like G5 or something that's just really a G5 in the middle of fucking Baghdad in a war zone people are going to want to take pressure washed and all clean that Mercedes that big Mercedes yeah a G wagon yeah a G wagon yeah yeah dude so Gwagon all of this stuff is up armored so when you look at this like any vehicle you want you can get a level of armor to it but if you buy the most ridiculous and expensive vehicle in the middle of fucking war -term country X, you're going to stick out like a sore thumb.

[67] And the whole intent of the mission is to blend in.

[68] So to my point, you'll have fields of shit that you can't use because some dumbass is pulling the trigger on your government tax dollars going, this looks good to me. Might as well just see how that looks.

[69] Yeah.

[70] Why don't they take like an old Chevy blazer and then retrofit it?

[71] Well, there's that too.

[72] You can do that.

[73] Do they do that?

[74] Oh, yeah.

[75] You can, when you look, go down the rabbit hole in armored vehicles, and obviously you probably wouldn't, but if you wanted an armored vehicle at any kind, you can get it.

[76] Now, there are different armored vehicles from different companies.

[77] So, for instance, Mercedes builds their armored vehicles from ground up.

[78] It's one of the, the best, if not the best armored vehicle in the world.

[79] It's built from ground up.

[80] Jamie has a right here.

[81] Yeah.

[82] Yeah.

[83] The G -Class, originally was a military vehicle yeah that's why it's so durable like my wife has one of those it's like the it's a tank or is like fucking kachunk it's not like any other car it's so thick like the gauge steel oh they don't they don't make cars like it no and that it's so boxing it's got such good angles to it that i think that it really fits well because there is they look fucking incredible do you remember the weight on like a level seven like how those things are so fucking heavy.

[84] It offset the gravity of the earth.

[85] It was just fucking heavy.

[86] Like those things are so heavy and so top heavy.

[87] That was the other issue too.

[88] You're not going anywhere fast in those things.

[89] So if you need to get out.

[90] Yeah, it's armored up, right?

[91] So you must have like steel plates at the bottom of it.

[92] It's all built from ground up.

[93] So it's not as if you have a steel plate that you can remove or something or that's been retro welded in.

[94] It's built on the factory line for it to be an armored vehicle.

[95] So does they make them from military guys or do they make them for like dictators?

[96] No, they make them for really rich pricks or dictator X or military, whoever it is.

[97] It doesn't want to get blown up.

[98] Yeah.

[99] And you can take, I think it's something like three rounds of AK -47, so 762 by 39 and a three -inch square.

[100] Wow.

[101] And that's through the entire vehicle.

[102] So when you're getting lit up in one of those, it's at one, it's an interesting experience that you're never going to forget.

[103] Uh, and then two, you, you're feeling pretty good, especially if they're shooting at you with AK, you're just like, whatever, I'm going to have a snack.

[104] You guys keep doing whatever you're doing.

[105] So have you been inside one while it's under attack?

[106] Oh, gosh, yeah, yeah.

[107] What is it like?

[108] Just ting, ding, ding, ding, dint, yeah, some tinks.

[109] Um, and obviously, you know, your, your job is not to stick around and kind of absorb the rounds, but, uh, the, the, the, a level seven is what it's called.

[110] And so when you're in a level seven armored vehicle, it's getting, you know, shot at by either 762 by 39 or you know increase the the caliber of rifle or belt fed it will absorb a certain amount of rounds sometimes it'll be loud and sometimes it'll be really muted and quiet depending on just where it strikes yeah where it strikes how it strikes so if it's striking an angle if it's perpendicular to the round where is it hitting uh you know so how closer are you to the shooter uh how perpendicular you are to the round how big is the round so it'll kind of it'll sound different depending on where you're at and you can kind of gauge like where's that coming from how much weight does it add to the overall truck oh gosh a shit tonne those doors if you were to put your finger in one of those level seven doors by hand you'll get it trimmed off you'll get it trimmed off and that's a really weird fact point about level sevens is you never want to roll down the windows and you really can't on a lot of them so one of your teammates farts in the fucking vehicle it's the worst because you can't open the door roll down the window you're like really dude yeah you can't go through Chick -fil -A drive -thru in one of those things.

[111] You know, you can.

[112] You can get it.

[113] I think you get the window down about this far, give or take.

[114] But it will also take a finger off if you decide to roll up the window.

[115] The window is going to be three and a half to four inches thick.

[116] That's how big it is.

[117] And it's not glass.

[118] It's a plastic, essentially, or some type of plastic.

[119] But you can see through and you can see through looks somewhat like glass.

[120] If you get close to an armored vehicle, you can say.

[121] kids listen to this right now going I need that in my life oh man I need one of those there's actually a lot of companies that do that they take like Tacomas or Tundras and they outfit them with level sevens I mean I think that's just kind of badass one day I want doesn't that a Devorolo company do that do you know that company Devorlo oh yeah that that's what I was talking about yeah they do the that plastic coating on the outside what's that shit called the hard plastic coating on the outside you know they it's like synthetic Kevlar yeah yeah it's like this hard plastic it's like I forget what it's called there's a usually you use it for undercoding some cars but a lot of cars they do it on the outside as well and then they'll do a whole bulletproof treatment of them and then they those things are like $500 ,000 too they're pretty expensive with Jamie go to Dev Rolo it's um they'll do a 700 horsepower engine option and all kinds of crazy shit well like when you look at the we'll call it the Mercedes and there it is you'll have sometimes you'll have a V12 twin turbo V12 and a Mercedes that's got to be 6 ,700 that's got to be 6700 4s go to their just their model range where the model range is yeah and then go to the Predator Volo limousine look at that thing yeah they make a limo but the predator I think is their top of the line oh that's that's their F150 they do an F150 and they also do a tundra but there's that line that shit on the outside Linex?

[122] Is that what it's called?

[123] Is that what it's called?

[124] Yeah, that's Linux.

[125] So it's this really durable plastic that you can't scratch or dent.

[126] So now that you're in Texas, is that going to be your Texas truck?

[127] I think I might have to.

[128] DevX.

[129] Oh, they call it DevX.

[130] So it's like a version of Linux, I'm sure.

[131] Right.

[132] I think it used to be called Linux.

[133] Yeah.

[134] Those things are mean looking.

[135] I like it.

[136] Yeah, that's dope.

[137] Oh, okay.

[138] So they do it for Jeeps, too, there.

[139] Oh, they deal with everything.

[140] Yeah, it's Linux.

[141] Because they've been, a Mercedes, ew, what are you doing?

[142] Yeah, it's disgusting.

[143] Unscratchable, but it looks like shit.

[144] They look okay, I guess.

[145] It's kind of like a mat looking, but the texture.

[146] Yeah, I've seen people do that with jeeps and shit.

[147] Oh, yeah.

[148] I think Dudley did it to one of his, right?

[149] Did he?

[150] Yeah, I think his Jeep was just at the office.

[151] I think he's got some kind of Lion X or something like that.

[152] I just saw it.

[153] I just saw it in Utah.

[154] I didn't notice that.

[155] I'm probably just imagined.

[156] I might have not been paying attention now.

[157] We were looking at so many different things when we were up there.

[158] Yeah, but that, so this company does that, but it's like, I think that was like, there's a lot of, like, rich Russian guys to drive around those things.

[159] Yeah, that's kind of a rich Russian thing to do, right?

[160] It's like, number one ballisted car in USA.

[161] Yeah.

[162] If you're a rich Russian, chances are someone wants to kill you.

[163] I would say that's a really high percentage.

[164] It's a high possibility.

[165] It's a high possibility.

[166] So when you got out of the military, how long was it before you started Black Rifle?

[167] It was started basically at the same time.

[168] Is there coffee in this thing right here?

[169] Yeah, yeah.

[170] There's still coffee in there.

[171] What is this?

[172] What kind of coffee is this?

[173] That is that Cinebon that I roasted special for this place.

[174] That Ethiopian shit that you said me?

[175] It's a Costa -Drican.

[176] Yeah, what did you think of that Ethiopian?

[177] The fucking bomb diggity, man. Really?

[178] I love it.

[179] I was turned on to Ethiopian coffee.

[180] I had this guy, Peter Giuliano.

[181] He's a coffee expert back in the day.

[182] I had them on the podcast like a few years back.

[183] I was just interested.

[184] I was like, what, like, what is it?

[185] Like, these people that are really into coffee.

[186] I started reading about people who are really into coffee.

[187] I'm like, I want to know what the fuck is going on.

[188] Like, what is happening?

[189] Like, these real heavy coffee nerds.

[190] Because I would just get coffee and pour cream in it.

[191] And then I was into like MCT oil and grass fed butter and coffee for a while.

[192] But the problem with that is people in the podcast got so annoyed with me going, every 30 seconds.

[193] Because you've got all this grass -fed.

[194] butter and MCT oil in your throat right just like coat you and you um so i got this guy peter juliano come on and he just explained to me the whole thing how all coffee came from ethiopia and then and then the difference between uh wet processing and dry processing and coffee rust and all these different things like well we went down the rabbit hole for like three hours the best analogy i have for coffee it's so similar to wine right you have the wine condissuers that can taste all the tasting notes and all that then you have the average consumer that goes and buys bottom a box just to get drunk or just for the caffeine.

[195] It's very similar where if you go down the rabbit hole like Evan specifically.

[196] With everything, cigars, with everything.

[197] There's just dorks that take it to the next level.

[198] Well, and I think that for every one of those, whether it's wine or cigars or coffee or whatever it is, right, which is a total sidebar story of him as well, which is I went and had dinner with Crowder one night and we went to the cigar bar.

[199] And he's a hardcore cigar officiant out.

[200] it.

[201] Like he's, really?

[202] Yeah.

[203] And so he was taking me down, you know, Cigar Street with whatever he's doing.

[204] And I was taking him down Coffee Street.

[205] And so the geekiest conversation in America was taking place between Stephen and me as we're trying to eat steak in this bar in Dallas not too far from his office.

[206] But I think for every one of those, like you actually find a niche subculture of people that are also share.

[207] You know, your same passion for just obscure details and things.

[208] So when you're talking about wine or coffee, you do have some type of common kinship, I guess, because I get it.

[209] I totally get why people are into this one little thing and they want to go as deep and as interesting as they can.

[210] I totally get it because I'm like that with coffee.

[211] I never get bored of it if I go to Panama or Guatemala or Costa Rica.

[212] And coffee is so fascinating from every aspect, whether we're looking at it from a historical, the international historical consequences of this entire commodity, whether it's commodities trading, whether it's growing and processing, the future of coffee, where is it headed, how are we, you know, optimizing the growing process so we don't run out of it, whether you're looking at it from a roasting or a drinking, all of that, you can go as deep and as detailed as you want, and it doesn't get fucking boring I could spend the rest of my life Have you guys ever thought about farming Is it possible to do in America Can you do it in Texas?

[213] No The climate's just not correct No it's We have Kona out of Hawaii That's about it Which is fucking fantastic I love Kona coffee Yeah it's Some really amazing flavors That come out of the big island For whatever reason, right?

[214] It's a soil Is that what it is?

[215] Yeah, it's a soil so when you have the high lava or...

[216] But let's be honest, that's not America.

[217] No. Hawaii's not America.

[218] It's crazy.

[219] I mean, I love Hawaii.

[220] Don't get me wrong.

[221] But they should be allowed to be their own fucking country.

[222] They're an island in the middle of the ocean.

[223] It's five hours by plane from America.

[224] Right.

[225] How the fuck is that America?

[226] I think they should be protected by America.

[227] Sure.

[228] Don't get me wrong.

[229] But the idea that that's regular America, like, come on, man. Hawaii, you have, there's a special.

[230] Pacific look Hawaiians have.

[231] Right.

[232] Like, oh, that dude looks Hawaiian.

[233] Yeah, exactly.

[234] Yeah.

[235] But there's a guy from Iowa.

[236] Oh, that guy looks Iowen.

[237] No. No. That's not the way that it works.

[238] I mean, come on, man. It's fucking crazy that that's America.

[239] Yeah, plus, you kind of don't want America to fuck it up.

[240] So either, right?

[241] So it's like, keep it out there.

[242] So, like, none of the American politicians can fuck that thing to the point where we can't go out there and at least enjoy it.

[243] And in a peaceful, in a way that's beneficial for everybody.

[244] I mean, we've done, they've done an amazing job of not fucking it up.

[245] Yeah.

[246] Thinking about how many people come there.

[247] You know, like every year, people are constantly going to Hawaii and they've somehow another managed to keep it together.

[248] Well, I think it's pretty much America's like vacation spot where we'll take that island.

[249] So, you know, we have bachelor's parties.

[250] We can just roll out there and sit on Kauai for a couple days and drink, you know, margaritas.

[251] The thing that I was thinking about when I was flying out there, which is really kind of a morbid thought in some ways where I was thinking about all the fat that has flown across the ocean so they can go eat more fat on the island of Hawaii in this sense of like just people and the obesity of just generally flying seven hours landing on an island and then essentially sitting and eating in a buffet and then flying back and I was thinking about the fuel that's being utilized to cart just general fat back and forth on Hawaii.

[252] That's what I was thinking about when I was flying to Hawaii in January and uh fat and booze yeah fat and booze so much booze gets consumed there so much it's and with me too when I go there I just immediately start drinking I don't drink during the day here like very rarely but when I go to Hawaii like the moment I land fuck yeah there's something about the island vibe that you're like it's 11 a .m mimosa's why not we got something with an umbrella yeah something with a pineapple slice in it Pineapple.

[253] Let's party.

[254] I fucking love it there.

[255] And it's my favorite hunting destination.

[256] Oh, mine too.

[257] Because it's a great place to go to get tuned up for like elk hunting because you get so many opportunities when you go to Lanai.

[258] For access, right?

[259] Yeah.

[260] And like ethically, like they have to kill those things.

[261] Like there's no if ands or butts about it.

[262] They bring in snipers on a weekly basis.

[263] They have 30 ,000 deer plus or minus.

[264] You know, they don't really know.

[265] They're doing overhead surveys and shit.

[266] on an island with 3 ,000 people.

[267] And it's tiny.

[268] Have you been?

[269] No, I haven't.

[270] Bro, it's bonkers.

[271] When you're there at nighttime and you hit the headlights and you just see thousands of eyes.

[272] You're like, whoa, this is crazy.

[273] Well, Axis breed like hogs, as you know.

[274] And I think a lot of people don't know in like Texas with the exotics here.

[275] What happened over the last, you know, whatever, 100 years is the rains and storms wash out the high fences.

[276] And then you get the Axis that escape.

[277] And now they're like ramped where I live in hill country just an hour away.

[278] I mean, they're fucking everywhere.

[279] There's almost more than that, like, wild white tail.

[280] My wife saw an axis near our house.

[281] We were driving right next to my house the way here.

[282] We saw about a 34 -inch axis and about, I don't know, 30 females out there in the field on the way in.

[283] Wow.

[284] And the crazy thing with Texas is they're considered exotics.

[285] So as long as you have a hunting license, there's not the regulations like there are in the season with white tails.

[286] So you can, they're walking groceries, which is awesome because they're like, I need to eat.

[287] They're so delicious.

[288] It best me. They're so delicious.

[289] They consider elk exotics.

[290] Here?

[291] Yeah, which is so weird because elk used to be native.

[292] They used to be native here, but they were, you know, extirpated.

[293] And then now that they're back again, because they're not standard for Texas, they're now considered exotics.

[294] So there's no, like, hunting season for elk out here.

[295] Have you immersed yourself in all in, like, the Texas hunting culture yet at all?

[296] I've only been here for a month.

[297] Okay.

[298] It's wild, man, because you go to...

[299] I haven't even said y 'all yet.

[300] Y 'all?

[301] You haven't?

[302] I've tried it.

[303] It's an ill. fitting shoe for me in my vocabulary.

[304] I can't use it.

[305] I'm like a cultural mutt.

[306] I'm like, what's up, bro, from SoCal, y 'all?

[307] And it's like, wait, what the fuck is this guy?

[308] He said, bro?

[309] Shred the gnar and then y 'all.

[310] Yeah, shred the gnar, y 'all.

[311] But the hunting out here is crazy because, like, some of the high fence ranches, and we're talking tens of thousands of acres.

[312] And, you know, if you ask him, like, can you shoot a giraffe?

[313] They're like, everything's got a prostag old boy.

[314] And I mean, anything goes.

[315] But I'm not shooting a giraffe.

[316] No, no, I, but.

[317] But apparently they're delicious.

[318] I have a friend of who shot a giraffe and he says they're fucking delicious really yeah they had to shoot one giraffe right so here's the thing about giraffs they are like every other animal they want to control breeding right so every other male large male wants to control breeding and when you have a large male giraffe that fucks up all the other male giraffes you're like okay we got a real problem with this guy right and so they had to take out this giraffe so he was in africa at the time and they shot this giraffe and they ate it and he said it was unbelievably delicious Did they reference what it tasted like?

[319] I would imagine it's...

[320] I would imagine it's got to be in the deer family, right?

[321] Like, something like it?

[322] Dinosaur?

[323] What family is giraffe in?

[324] I have known.

[325] Here's my thing on it, though.

[326] I'm not eating anything that is so friendly when you go to the zoo, a baby can feed it.

[327] Right.

[328] Like, my daughter, I have video of my daughter when she's two.

[329] I was holding her.

[330] And the giraffe comes with this crazy tongue and takes the lettuce from her hands and she's laughing.

[331] I mean, they're just too chill, man. And they're the only animal that I have no problem with at the zoo, too.

[332] I used to have a bit about it.

[333] Because every other animal at the zoo, you're like, let him go.

[334] What the fuck is this?

[335] The giraffes have no problem with that fence.

[336] They're like, another day with no lions.

[337] And they just stroll it over to where the lettuce is.

[338] I feel like that's how they talk very proper.

[339] Yeah, that's how I think.

[340] Yeah, I got a couple of those.

[341] Just hanging.

[342] Do you have an okopee?

[343] No, I don't.

[344] I'm sure they have about you.

[345] We do have a z -dunk at a ranch.

[346] What a pretty animal, though.

[347] The okopee?

[348] Wow, that's beautiful.

[349] Have you seen the Z -Donks here?

[350] Is it a zebra donkey hybrid?

[351] Yeah, they cross -pollinate, and it's got zebra legs and then a donkey body.

[352] It's super weird -looking.

[353] Oh, Jamie.

[354] Yeah, because a lot of those animals, if they get out, like a Z -Donk crossover, then you have like, you know, red stag and elk can actually mate together and make a hybrid crossbreed.

[355] Seriously?

[356] Yeah, yeah.

[357] That's why they'll never keep on the same fences.

[358] Look at that.

[359] Yeah, cool, huh?

[360] But that's an infertile animal, right?

[361] Yeah, I believe so.

[362] Most hybrids are like that.

[363] I kind of want it as a pet.

[364] Wow, what a beautiful thing.

[365] What is that fucking thing with a giant?

[366] Yeah, look at that cocksucker.

[367] Who the size of those?

[368] I think that's a Wattusu.

[369] I think you can Google that Wattuuuu.

[370] What the fuck kind of neck does it have to carry that around?

[371] Look at that head gear.

[372] That's a Florida airboat.

[373] That's a Wattuu.

[374] It's like, it's very similar to a Texas longhorn, but they got these really thick horns on them.

[375] That's like a sprinter's thighs.

[376] I think it's a Y in there.

[377] Yeah, right there.

[378] Wow.

[379] It's a Y in there.

[380] It's like W -A -Y -T -S -U or something.

[381] Hmm.

[382] I don't ask me. Wild -ass -looking animal.

[383] Well, Texas has, I did a bit about Texas tigers.

[384] There's more tigers in captivity in Texas than all the wild of the world.

[385] One state, more tigers than all of the planet.

[386] And they're all in dudes' yards.

[387] Riddle me this.

[388] Do you think after Joe Exotic that the increase of Texas ownership of you?

[389] Yeah.

[390] Look at that motherfucker.

[391] Holy shit.

[392] Look, that's, if you saw, showed me that, I'd be like, oh, that's Avatar.

[393] That's fake.

[394] That's in a movie.

[395] It's real.

[396] Wow.

[397] What, what do that, what that thing tastes like?

[398] It tastes just like how.

[399] I've had it.

[400] I like how that's your first.

[401] Oh, look at that one.

[402] What the fuck, man. Does it taste like?

[403] I like it's the Joe's first question.

[404] Huh.

[405] I wonder what that tastes like.

[406] You need to know.

[407] It's like cruising through.

[408] Well, everything doesn't taste the same.

[409] That's true.

[410] I've had people that have never had elk before and I serve it to them.

[411] And they're like, holy shit.

[412] I'm like, yeah.

[413] Yeah.

[414] Yeah.

[415] Yeah, this is the real thing.

[416] You feel different when you eat it.

[417] You're like, who!

[418] You feel pumped up because it's so filled with nutrients and just vitamins and everything, you know?

[419] Feels like alpha brain for your body.

[420] Yeah, there's something to it.

[421] There's definitely something to it.

[422] There's a reason why they're running away from mountain lines all the time.

[423] I don't know if you ever tried it, but I've been taking like beef, like grass -fed organic beef, like liver pills and stuff.

[424] Yeah, I do that.

[425] You do it?

[426] Yeah.

[427] Yeah, I had a company hook me up.

[428] And, man, I take that in about 30 minutes after I. I eat.

[429] I'm like supercharged if I just took like a B12 shot.

[430] It's the weirdest thing.

[431] And I think you had to like work your way up in dosage.

[432] Yeah, that guy, uh, Paul Saldino, uh, carnivore MD.

[433] Yeah, yeah.

[434] Yeah, he sell, I think it's heart and soil supplements.

[435] Yeah.

[436] He sells, uh, grass fed, uh, beef liver, beef heart, trachea, collagen.

[437] I take all that shit.

[438] Yeah, Trevor does all that shit.

[439] Yeah, Trevor's super health conscious.

[440] Yeah, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, believe in that 100 % I mean human beings are supposed to be eating organs when wolves kill right the first thing the alpha does is eat the liver the other wolf stand by and wait and the alpha eats the liver it's the most nutrient dense part of the body do you keep it do you keep your liver when you i love liver yeah yeah i think it's i buy liver at the store too i buy calves liver like when i run an elk liver or i love heart too heart's delicious dear heart is my favorite my brother like chops it up and like sears it in oil like almost fried a little bit it's delicious and an elk liver is like It's as big as this fucking table.

[441] It's so big.

[442] It's an enormous, enormous organ.

[443] Yeah, and I've always looked at the last couple of years, it's interesting because people will go, why are you keeping that?

[444] It's funny because I'm, you know, pulling my knife out, going through, you know, as I'm feeling it.

[445] And I'm like, oh, we need to keep the heart and liver.

[446] And it's funny because people...

[447] Some people don't like it.

[448] Some people are like, what the fuck are you doing?

[449] I'm like, man, it's really good.

[450] I want to one day shoot a bison and then cut the liver out.

[451] squirt bile on it and eat it raw because that's what the native americans did apparently it was like their favorite thing to do really yeah they would cut the liver out and cut slices the liver and squirt bile on on the liver and eat it raw i want to i want to taste that i don't know what does the bile do why just it's like salty i guess huh yeah i mean they had all sorts of you know ways to get nutrition right that were sort of not just natural but like instinctive you know Like the liver.

[452] Like today, we don't necessarily eat liver.

[453] Like most, if you, like, gave a survey of how many people eat liver on a daily basis, it's like probably not even one -tenth of one percent, right?

[454] But back then, it was, like, really important for nutrients because, you know, especially if you're living on the plains in the winter and there's no vegetables, you're not getting any vegetables.

[455] You know, like the Comanche basically lived off bison.

[456] Right.

[457] And when they would shoot a bison, one of the first things they would do is cut the liver up and eat it raw with bile on it.

[458] I want to know what it tastes like.

[459] That's my favorite part about living in Texas is I live a bunch next to the hillbillies, and I mean that in a complimentary sense.

[460] But like my neighbor, I don't know, two months ago was like, hey man, I just killed a bison on this ranch.

[461] I got like extra meat.

[462] He gave me like 150 pounds of organic bison.

[463] I mean, I love it because everybody's killing shit around here and he eats so good.

[464] Well, at my studio in L .A., I had three commercial freezers.

[465] So when dudes would come over, I'd give everybody meat.

[466] I gave meat to people that.

[467] you would, you know, never think would be out there eating elk.

[468] Just never put your freezer on a GFI switch.

[469] I learned the hard way in my, in my garage.

[470] The GFI switch went off, and I didn't check my freezer for like four days.

[471] Ruined three axes and one at White Telf.

[472] I would think the three days it would still be frozen.

[473] Not in the Texas summer in the garage.

[474] But is it a good seal, like a really high -end freezer?

[475] Probably not.

[476] I think I bought a cheap one that first time.

[477] When my neighborhood caught fire a couple years back, and I had a freezer, commercial freezer in my garage.

[478] We had evacuated, but my friend Bud stayed by.

[479] And when the firefighters were in the area, I said, hey, man, I go, go into the freezer.

[480] I go, that meat is still going to be good and pull it out and serve it to the firefighters.

[481] So they fed like fucking 100 firefighters.

[482] Are you kidding me?

[483] Yeah, it was awesome.

[484] That's awesome.

[485] So I had hundreds of pounds of meat in there.

[486] Right.

[487] And it was, but it was still frozen.

[488] Yeah.

[489] It was still good.

[490] That's crazy.

[491] Yeah, a good seal.

[492] for like a Yeti cooler.

[493] Those fucking Yetty coolers, man. They are the shit.

[494] You can take one of those coolers, fill it with ice, leaving in a hundred degrees sun for five days.

[495] You open that bitch up, there's ice in there.

[496] It's crazy.

[497] It doesn't make any sense.

[498] Well, it does make sense, but it's just shocking.

[499] When we were, when we were, I would row down the middle fork of the salmon in, in Idaho.

[500] So we'd do like five, six day trips.

[501] And I would pack shitty coolers with dry, ice and ice and they would last five days.

[502] So even with a Yeti cooler, a little bit of shade, you can stretch that out for, I don't know, man, you could get a week at least out of that stuff.

[503] But the funny thing is with just meat in general, as far as, like, one of the questions that I was trying to ask you earlier was when you're on that carnivore diet and you were eating nothing but meat, were you eating wild meat or were you also eating some, you know, beef and some other things I was eating both.

[504] I was eating like a lot of elk, which I always do, but elk is very lean.

[505] There's no fat in that.

[506] So I would also, I would cook it in tallow.

[507] Okay.

[508] First of all, so I had a lot of beef fat.

[509] I would take scoops of tallow and just eat it.

[510] Got it.

[511] I would eat scoops of beef tallow, grass -fed beef tallow.

[512] And then I would also cook it in bacon.

[513] I would eat bacon.

[514] Like I'd have like four or five pieces of bacon.

[515] You have to get fat.

[516] Otherwise, you'll get that rabbit starvation shit going on, you know?

[517] Like, so I was just trying different ways to get fat in my.

[518] my diet.

[519] And you did that for a month?

[520] Yeah, a whole month.

[521] And lost 12 pounds.

[522] And I got real aggressive.

[523] Seriously?

[524] Yes, it gets you aggressive.

[525] Like I don't know.

[526] Yeah, I think so for sure.

[527] But also, I think it's just, there's something about your body thinking, all it does is eat meat.

[528] Right.

[529] I mean, I think, like, one of the things that my friends have said that have turned vegan is like, it makes it more peaceful and calm.

[530] And it makes sense.

[531] You're grazing.

[532] You're fucking you're a herbivore now right like you're just out there eating grass and rice all day like of course like it seems like your body would be calm but on the other side of it if you're eating meat all the time your body's like we got to kill yeah like it's it's i think there's something to that i really do because i wasn't trying to be aggressive right but i was i would find myself like saying things that were a little too aggressive or like it was weird it's like the world's worst fucking excuse you're like guy you're kind of an asshole today joe i've just been eating meat man I wasn't being a dick, but I was like a little quick to judge things.

[533] I was like a little, fuck him.

[534] That was just a little too much.

[535] And then it's just there was something, I think there's something to that.

[536] And I had a lot of energy, man. That was the other thing that was interesting.

[537] Oh yeah, all day long.

[538] That was what was weird.

[539] It was like there was no crash.

[540] There was no crashing during the day.

[541] It was like I had extra energy.

[542] It was crazy.

[543] It felt weird, you know?

[544] It's like there was no, I was eating no sugar.

[545] What about eggs?

[546] Yeah.

[547] fish eggs fish all that anything that's an animal yeah i was anything that's an animal the only thing that kept me from eating that way was i got bored so i love pasta i love food i love going to a restaurant and they make you a nice crab cake or something i love like when i love what chefs create things yeah yeah like i don't want to say hey i don't eat meat like it's just i like it i like it with the rice and the i like it it tastes good it's one of the things that I enjoy.

[548] So for that, it's like, I could do it longer if I want.

[549] I could keep doing it.

[550] I could eat like that forever.

[551] But I enjoy food too much, I think.

[552] Right.

[553] But the only reason I'm motivated in life to be pretty good at business is so I can buy pretty good whiskey and be a fat fuck anytime I go to the restaurant and buy the lobster roll that's $37.

[554] And I'm like, it's cool, man. Yeah.

[555] There's some logic to that, not worrying about what food costs and just, it just, there's something about, I feel like.

[556] Like, when you go to a restaurant, you're going to, like, an art gallery.

[557] Yeah.

[558] It's like, this guy's an artist, or this woman's an artist.

[559] She creates these dishes, and then you're experiencing their art. You know, I don't want to just eat meat all the time.

[560] So when I go to restaurants, I eat whatever the fuck I want.

[561] But I think 80 % of my diet's meat.

[562] Yeah.

[563] Probably around 80%.

[564] I've been trying, like, I went strictly, essentially, vegetables and meat for probably the six months just to see kind of what's going on and honestly I felt really good and then I shifted just to meet five or six days ago so I'm I'm running just meat now yeah so I'm interested in what you did and I guess you know I should probably do a little bit more research but what are you doing for fat well I'm using grass fed a lot of grass fed butter I kept all the bones so I'm using all the bone marrow and things like that out of my elk and I love bone marrow and And for the most part, you know, the elk that I shot a couple weeks ago, that thing was really fat.

[565] It had a really healthy layer of fat on it, which is more, it was a lot more fat than I thought that we would get from those.

[566] Especially in the rut.

[567] I know.

[568] Yeah, mine was pretty fat, too.

[569] It was pretty impressive.

[570] But I'm trying, you know what I mean, where it's, you know, I've talked to Trevor a lot over the last several months on how are you feeling, are you crashing at this time?

[571] He stopped it, right?

[572] He did it for a while, but then he got off of it.

[573] He said his hormones kind of plateaued.

[574] Well, he was doing something crazy, too.

[575] He was doing carnivore, and he was only eating for, like, 30 seconds during the day or something, where he would scourge himself.

[576] What?

[577] It was crazy.

[578] Really?

[579] Yeah.

[580] He was fasting until, like, four o 'clock in the afternoon.

[581] And then, so he's doing intermittent fasting.

[582] He's doing it every day until four or five in the afternoon.

[583] And he'd give himself a feed window of two hours or something like that.

[584] And he was prepping for his, he's doing a couple races, plus he's doing some guiding up in Alaska.

[585] So he's doing all of these kind of mental exercises plus the fact that he's optimizing his diet, doing exercise, physical exercise.

[586] He's got this really interesting way of kind of looking at life.

[587] But he was only giving himself maybe an hour of a feeding window, a day for a while.

[588] I like how you call it a feeding window.

[589] That's what they call it.

[590] That's like, yeah.

[591] It's weird.

[592] That intermittent fasting thing is a weird sort of torture cult.

[593] They're like torturing themselves and just like, there's benefits to it for sure.

[594] Right.

[595] There's real benefits to not eating all the time because you give your body a break and you let your body digest food.

[596] And there's benefits to going into ketosis and your body goes into ketosis when it doesn't have glycogen anymore and starts eating fat and burning off the fat.

[597] There's a lot.

[598] There's a host of benefits.

[599] Right.

[600] I'm not the guy to tell you about them.

[601] but there's also a thing where guys do where they want to see how long they can go.

[602] Yeah.

[603] You know, like marathon runners, there's just something to it.

[604] Like, they want to see how far they can push it.

[605] And so there's a thing where you're hungry, but you're like, nope, not until six.

[606] I don't eat until six.

[607] Yeah, that's super aggressive internet fasting is weird to me when they eat for like two hours a day.

[608] I get it if it's like 12, but like 18, 20 hours.

[609] That's too much for me. We would be up in the mountains cruising around.

[610] We were going shed hunting.

[611] and it's, you know, 4, 3, 5 o 'clock.

[612] And he's like, I can't eat yet.

[613] Like, you haven't eaten all day.

[614] You just went, well, something?

[615] No, I'm not eating until Thursday.

[616] I don't fuck around with that shit and I'm in the mountains.

[617] If I'm hunting, I eat all the time.

[618] I eat constantly.

[619] I'm not doing any intermittent fasting when I'm walking 10 miles a day in the mountains.

[620] That's crazy.

[621] When you have to, I never know when the real work is going to begin.

[622] Right, right?

[623] Yeah.

[624] And I don't want to be in that position, and I found myself in that position, in the last couple years where it's time to turn it on and shit man I was on a stock a few weeks ago and it took me over an hour to move 30 yards just trying to move on this big bowl as slow as I could there were cows everywhere so I had eyes everywhere looking for me it's amazing if you don't move fast and you have the right camo what you can get away with you can get away And I didn't know what I could get away with or I couldn't get away with.

[625] And I feel like I'm doing Tai Chi or something, you know, just moving as slow as you can.

[626] And then you never know when how long is that stock going to be.

[627] And then how long is the post work?

[628] If I, if I shoot this animal, how long am I going to have to track it?

[629] Where is all the work in this going to start and end?

[630] So I'm the same way.

[631] I have to eat throughout the day.

[632] I have to keep putting fuel in my body.

[633] because I'm always expecting shit's going to get real like 10 minutes from now.

[634] Yeah, and those hunting situations like you just don't know.

[635] You don't know if you're going to have to pack out in an hour.

[636] Like you should be fueled up because if you get really tired and you just feel weak and woozy, you could push through it in a regular day.

[637] Sure.

[638] But if you're out there in the mountains and you're at 8 ,000 feet and then you have 100 pounds of elk on your back and you have to walk over this ridge and it's going to take you two miles to get to the truck, good fucking luck.

[639] Yeah.

[640] Yeah.

[641] You should have prepared.

[642] That'd be gassed up.

[643] A little bit more.

[644] Yeah, I eat, man. You've got to eat.

[645] But I think there's real benefits to, you know, occasionally fasting.

[646] And then that intermittent fasting, I think human beings probably eat too much.

[647] Oh, yeah.

[648] Generally, if you look at Americans in particular, we're fat as fuck.

[649] Yeah.

[650] Well, the wrong stuff, too.

[651] I mean, I've always made that joke when people are, like, having a donut and they're just like, I have no energy and they're chugging coffee.

[652] I'm like, eat some fucking good carbs and some meat, and you're going to feel great.

[653] It's just, yeah, the diet in America is very interesting to me, especially.

[654] when we travel and we're with some of the other guys that don't have the same dietary habits as us and I'm like that's you ate gas station burritos and a hot dog and that's what you had today and I'm like how and I don't I'm not like discrediting it that's your life do what you want but it's it's weird and then they feel like shit all day and you're like well no wonder you had yeah it's just too available yeah it's it's too there's too much all the time and I think that's where the intermittent fasting at least you know for a lot of guys it's it it it can really help because it's ultimately saying, I'm not going to take part in just the ease of all the food that's available all the time.

[655] And I'm going to take part in it, you know, two or three hours a day or whatever it is.

[656] Yeah.

[657] Just give yourself some discipline.

[658] Yeah.

[659] Give yourself some discipline.

[660] Now, when you're, you're eating this all meat diet, how much of what you're eating is the elk and wild game?

[661] And how much, what are you, what are you using?

[662] I'm using, right now, I'm only using wild fish, so salmon for the most part, um, and elk.

[663] So, that's it that's it so i brought what about other fat sources uh well i mean outside of that little uh little on it nugget the you earlier those protein bites yeah yeah those are so fucking addictive so good so good uh but i i think for mc t i use a lot of mc t and i'm not saying it's good whatsoever i just want to see what the fuck happens to my body when i do nothing but good when I say non -processed fats, wild meat all the way through, and then stick to it for two, three, four weeks and see how I'm feeling.

[664] Just make sure you get enough fat.

[665] Yeah.

[666] That's the real problem with people when they get really tired because your body is most certainly going to go into ketosis at certain points in time.

[667] But there's also something that happens when you eat so much protein, your body converts that protein into glucose.

[668] Right.

[669] I think it's called glucogenesis or something like that.

[670] Right.

[671] And you'll experience that too, but you're going to need fat.

[672] If you don't, you're going to get fat.

[673] It'll start fucking with you.

[674] And that's one of the reasons why I got really in a tallow and really started eating a lot of bacon and things like that.

[675] Why do you think there's such like a national misconception that fat's bad for your body?

[676] Because I hear that from a lot of people like, I don't want to eat it.

[677] It's fat.

[678] Well, they were told that for the longest time.

[679] Well, first of all, there's real evidence that sugar and these companies that made sugar paid scientists to fuck with data.

[680] to put heart disease and all these problems that people are having with clogged arteries to push that off on saturated fat and to take that away from from sugar right and sugar sugar is terrible for you sugar in that form is so unnatural right right fat in the form of meat is very natural it's what human beings have been eating since the beginning of time yeah monosaturated polyunsaturated saturated saturated fats all pretty good for you just like stay away from trans fat Well, unsaturated fats that come from vegetable oils, like I think it's called linoleic acid, it's fucking terrible for you.

[681] Really?

[682] Not only is it terrible for you?

[683] There's real evidence that it makes you hungry, that like you're eating it, and there's no nutrients in it, so your body gets hungrier.

[684] Look, throughout human history, there's never been a time until recently where people got oils directly from plants in large quantities like that.

[685] You know, if you got oil from plants, it was like oil from avocados.

[686] is like natural or you got your oil from you know beef fat or chicken fat or things that's natural for human beings right these saturated fats that are natural um your body knows what to do with them your body doesn't know what the fuck to do with canola oil what is it your body's like what the fuck is right your body gets a hold of like some raw honey your body knows exactly what to do with it but your body gets a hold of like fucking corn syrup and that kind of shit's like what is this It just doesn't make sense to your body And I think we've gotten into this processed food thing And processed food is almost entirely Like if you if you it's first of all it's a human It's a new human creation Yeah And it's it should never be your first choice Your first choice should be natural foods You know first choice should be she Look apple steak steak all that That's normal You can eat that that's easy Your body knows what the fuck to do with that but you know you get into like seed oils and all these like really heavily processed seed oils like there's real evidence that that is a giant part of what's wrong with the health of Americans today is these ultra processed vegetable oils they're fucking terrible for you but it it doesn't seem to me like that's a stretch and logic right so for just the American diet in general for us to look at the traditional food pyramid and say well that's bullshit ultimately you know if you're if grains and processed foods sit at the cornerstone of your entire diet, you're going to have some issues.

[687] You can kind of look around and you don't even have to be a rocket surgeon to figure that out, right?

[688] It's like, holy shit, obesity is an epidemic in the United States.

[689] We're eating a ton of processed food and all the guys that I know that are healthy are eating whole foods for the most part.

[690] And it's not because you have more discipline or because you have more access or wealth.

[691] I know a ton of guys that are not very wealthy that eat whole foods and they're feeding in certain windows and they're still in the military still doing fucking incredibly difficult missions and they're really healthy.

[692] So when I look around, I say, well, okay, if you stick to whole foods and you limit your amount of caloric intake, we're not dealing in a high, you know, high intellect thought process here.

[693] It should be pretty easy.

[694] but I think what people want is they want their easy button, right?

[695] Well, you're hungry, you see Jack in the box, you pull in, you get a burger, you're like, oh, now I feel better.

[696] But meanwhile, you just force some shit into your system.

[697] And your system's got to burn off all this bullshit that you poured in there.

[698] But there's even foods that people think are healthy that are not really good for you.

[699] Like, for instance, white rice is better than brown rice.

[700] Yes.

[701] Like, people think white rice, like, oh, I'll have brown rice and being healthy.

[702] I have brown rice.

[703] It's got to be one of the big.

[704] misconceptions out there that fucking stuff there's arsenic in that but it's brown yeah it's not it's brown it looks like grains but that's all i eat is white raccoon that shit is terrible for you like there's a reason why asian cultures for a long time have been getting rid of that outside that husk god the japanese got it right with food i'm telling you sushi white rice seaweed just all day yeah yeah well there's a lot of countries that figured it out we're just not one of them processed seed oils, sugar, corn syrup, yeah, preservatives, fucking gallons of preservatives, glyphosate on all our plants, yeah.

[705] There's also evidence that like animals, and I've been getting into this lately, animals that eat these ultra -processed foods, then you eat them, like animals that eat like ultra -processed corn, and then you eat that animal.

[706] Like, you're getting some of the bullshit from the corn and some of the bullshit from that.

[707] all these seed oil acids you're getting these things in your body too but that that makes sense to me it makes complete sense to me when we look at what they're eating and then you're eating them for sure like there's really not a direct or you're not stretching and connecting a lot of complex thought there in the sense of when people are trying to sell me on the idea like no it's great don't worry about it it's like no man like those chickens are eating arsenic and they're packed in you know, right on top of each other, shitting on each other everywhere.

[708] Like, I'd rather have a free range egg.

[709] I'd rather have that.

[710] I'd rather have free range chicken.

[711] It's no offense to however you want to eat, but it's just a preference of eating.

[712] It's pretty easy.

[713] I think that the argument comes from maybe corporate impact in marketing where they'll just, Americans will consume it without thinking and go, well, it's good because Jack in the Box told me that it's organic.

[714] Well, I think if there's any one thing in this country, where there is a massive lack of understanding in terms of like the way people perceive what's good and what's bad, it's nutrition.

[715] Because there's so few doctors that really know what the fuck they're talking about.

[716] There's doctors out there that'll tell you you don't need supplements.

[717] You don't need supplements.

[718] You need a healthy balanced diet.

[719] And then you look at them, they got a gut.

[720] They like bloated.

[721] They look like they're dying.

[722] Like, what fuck is going on, man?

[723] I just typed in brown rice first white rice just to see what would pop up.

[724] and like the all five, six articles that come up say the opposite of what you guys just said.

[725] That's good for you?

[726] That brown rice has a advantage over white rice.

[727] What's the advantage?

[728] It says that there's nutrients and antioxidants and white rice is empty calories.

[729] Yeah, listen, rice is basically just carbohydrates.

[730] It is just calories.

[731] But the shell of the brown rice is not good for you.

[732] But Google, Google this.

[733] brown right the negative consequences of brown rice yeah i think it's not necessarily the nutritional thing there's something in the you get a lot of vegan propaganda in these articles that are written by these people like well the one i went to was a company i've i get food from sometimes not to like i'm paid by them but do do me a favorite google google the negative well that's what did i say the negative um impact of brown rice negative health consequences of brown rice but that's going to be across the border with food companies I was actually just listening to a doctor discuss this brown rice brown rice as the brand and german tag both of which are responsible for giving it the high fiber the brand of germ also irritate the digestive tract leading digestive problems bloating diarrhea constipation leaky gut syndrome I would skip that source usually Times of India is bad right but they eat a lot of rice over there I get all my facts from Wikipedia man it's usually not the best source that we would start with I would say.

[734] Well, that's the problem.

[735] Like, where do you get?

[736] That's why I was trying to say.

[737] WebMD is usually pretty good.

[738] I just typed in brown.

[739] The problem with brown rice.

[740] Go that Invictus Fitness.

[741] What is that?

[742] Here we go.

[743] The problem with brown rice.

[744] Dias and often insists that people should eat brown rice.

[745] Majority of your protein.

[746] Brown rice has also been reported high levels of inorganic, which is what I said, which is a toxin known to potentially cause liver lines.

[747] kidney and bladder cancer.

[748] Some arsenic is just naturally occurring mineral, but the inorganic kind comes from chemicals and pesticides.

[749] A researcher named Alan Aragon.

[750] He's a very highly respected fellow, read his shit online, run two different research projects comparing the effects of white rice and brown rice on the body.

[751] See the findings below.

[752] White rice actually has an equal or better nutritional yield and also has a better nitrogen retentive effect than brown rice.

[753] This is also because fiber and fight, what's that word?

[754] Phytate, fiber and phytate content of brown rice act as an antinutrient, reducing the bioavailability of the micronutrients it contains.

[755] Since no one is reading the fucking link, I'll just lay things out here for you.

[756] Yeah.

[757] So the problem with things that are posted online is that there's a lot of people that want to get you to eat a certain way.

[758] Right.

[759] And they'd like you to eat whole foods.

[760] They'd like you to eat.

[761] plant -based foods they'd like you to eat carnivore they'd like you to eat keto and they'll try to spell things out with user bias or with you know confirmation bias to try to like only like if you've talked to people that are carnivore -based people they'll just tell you like this is the only way you should eat and this is why you talk to people that are vegans this is the only way you should eat and this is why and more now than ever before people think that plant -based is the way to go so oftentimes when you Google like like brown rice or white rice or vegetables or whatever.

[762] You'll only find the positive consequences.

[763] Like, it's very rare to find the negative consequences of eating leafy green vegetables.

[764] But they exist.

[765] The negative consequences, first of all, oxalates.

[766] Like, my Cyrus's old boyfriend, her ex -husband, he had to get fucking surgery because he was getting these kidney stones because he was eating so much leafy green vegetables.

[767] Are you kidding me?

[768] Yeah, you get oxalates.

[769] Yeah.

[770] Can happen.

[771] Just another reason why I shouldn't eat greens.

[772] But then there's other people that have to tell you that greens are super healthy for you.

[773] And there's all these benefits to eating greens and that a certain level of, I think a certain amount of eating greens, there's like a hermetic effect where your body is like, like certain plants have chemicals that they release to try to discourage predation, right?

[774] So they'll release these chemicals and these chemicals that will, they'll discourage animals from eating them.

[775] In fact, when it goes back to giraffes, there's certain giraffes that have actually starved because, and this is really crazy, when the giraffes upwind were eating certain plants, the leaves downwind caught the fact that they were being eaten, and they changed their taste profile.

[776] So they release a certain chemical that makes the giraffes discouraged from eating them.

[777] So these giraffes hated eating this shit.

[778] It's really crazy.

[779] Nature's crazy.

[780] Yeah, chemicals that plants release, they don't, plants don't want to be fucking eaten.

[781] Right.

[782] You know, like, and they have to figure out how to survive.

[783] So nature has all these strategies for survival.

[784] And one of the strategies that plants have is they release these chemicals in order to make themselves taste like shit or even be poisonous.

[785] Well, and I've been hearing more and more of this.

[786] And it's interesting because when I look at what's going on with your gut, right?

[787] And I was just having this conversation earlier with a retired special force.

[788] guy, good friend of mine.

[789] And we were talking about our life in the military and what's happening in our gut biome, right?

[790] What's happening with the balance of your ecosystem down here?

[791] And we've lived this life of going overseas and overseas repetitively on a yearly, sometimes more annual cycle in these developing world countries and combat zones.

[792] We're nuking our gut every time we go over there on anti -malarials, anti -inflammatories, all of the different things, we're just dropping bombs in our gut.

[793] And then we're eating high preservative food, so meals ready to eat.

[794] And you're eating MREs, you're not sleeping, you're nuking your gut with antibiotics.

[795] And so now how much is happening down here, and when we're talking about plant -based or carnivore or paleo or any of these other things?

[796] how much is it really dependent on the individual and whether or not they were breastfed as kids how many anti -inflammatories have they taken what type of lifestyle do they have right where your ancestors come from yeah where your ancestors come from I think anytime we try to templateize system or some type of system and just say oh that's going to work for everybody right it's fucking might not work for anybody that's what's super complicated about diet there are some people that they eat a vegan diet and it's perfect for them right they have no problem with it And there's other people that get really sick.

[797] And there's other people that eat a carnivore diet and they feel like dog shit.

[798] They feel terrible.

[799] They feel lethargic.

[800] And I don't know if they're doing it right or wrong, but there's some people that eat it and they feel great.

[801] You've got to find what works for you.

[802] But the thing is people are so dogmatic about diet.

[803] And it becomes an ideology.

[804] It becomes like a religion.

[805] And especially like vegans and carnivores.

[806] The vegan people and the carnivore people are like, they're like the right and the left wing of America.

[807] They're like the Antifa and the proud boys.

[808] they really are they are they fucking believe 100 % in their way of life only yeah this is the only yeah yeah and you know and they'll tell you based on their own anecdotal evidence the thing you need to know though about vegans is there's a number i think it's more there's a giant number of them that eat meat when they're drunk oh yeah it's a huge percentage right yeah yeah i'm not i'm not even call these guys out but it was interesting my wife posted holding up like six plays it's like a year or so ago and man a vegan she got posted on some vegan page and they just went after her like i hope you effin die you this you that and i was like damn she's just having a filet man but i think that anything on like the diet side and fitness it's super individualized for success because not everything that works for you would work for me and i think a lot of people are too lazy to figure out and do the actual effort to see what best diet for them their work routine well cars work it's easier just to say i'll be lazy today it's hard to figure out what works for you you got to be a real honest about it and you know so many people they like here's the argument for like if you get drunk and you want to eating meat you also get drunk you eat donuts right you also get drunk eat like they were talking about this on meat eater uh there's a podcast out right now with that uh paul salino guy that i was just talking about yeah they got into this and it's uh human beings like things that taste good but are bad for you right so if you're going to analyze your diet and you're to really do it right.

[809] You've got to be disciplined.

[810] So if you're going to do it, you should really do blood work.

[811] You should really exercise and write down your routines and write down how you feel after you exercised.

[812] And then try to figure out what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong.

[813] And that's one of the reasons why people like the carnivore diet is because it's one of the best elimination diets.

[814] You're basically taking everything out except meat.

[815] And then you kind of find out, hey, my body doesn't react well to this.

[816] Or my body has a real problem with that.

[817] Or some people it's caffeine and some people it's just fucking whatever it is it's like you gotta find out what what's fucking with you and most people don't most people just you know they go to a doctor the doctor prescribes medication they keep eating the same old shit but now they have chemicals in here that are supposed to offset whatever negative stuff that they have in their diet what's an interesting segue on that too because that's like in part some of the non -profit stuff I do on the side is is solely based on that the individualized treatment for veterans specifically in law enforcement because you see a lot with the military DoD, the VA, like you're saying, you show up, don't feel good, and it's a blanket treatment, right?

[818] Here's some antidepressants, here's all that.

[819] But it's, you know, it's a band -aid for a bullet hole.

[820] And if you're not actually figuring out what the cause is and you're treating symptoms, then the third and fourth order effects of those treatments are going to make that individual worse.

[821] You know, some of the issues they have, like I think I have PTSD, if that's a guy saying that or PTSD, they go through and they find out they have TBI and 40 % memory function, short -term memory.

[822] function.

[823] And so now you go to cognitive therapy and you get the guys or gals working through it that way.

[824] But the only way to figure that out is through brain scans and blood work and actually focusing on the individual rather than being lazy and say, hey, here's some antidepressants when the whole time the issue was something completely different.

[825] And then you have budget problems, right?

[826] So the veterans hospitals don't have enough money to send you through all these different scans and all these different doctors and specialists and try to fine tune what's wrong with you.

[827] Well, I think that that's, you know, one of the things, that we talk about a lot is the our politicians will say our leadership they they love to go to war they love it like you know hey how many times can we send more guys to war how many countries you know and i'm i'm a participant in that endeavor by the way right i've invaded iraq i've spent a lot of my adult life in in in war specifically in both iraq and afghanistan but the thing that i've noticed in my adult life is that politicians love it.

[828] They love to send, you know, 18 to 26 year old men and women.

[829] They love to send them to war.

[830] What they hate is paying the fucking bill.

[831] That's what they hate.

[832] They hate paying for the after effects.

[833] They hate standing by their word in the sense of, hey, we're going to take care of you, all your health problems, your education.

[834] We're going to start really fixing the VA system.

[835] So there's long -term care.

[836] What most veterans that I know, what they have to do is they have to continue to lobby the government over and over and over for them to prove that what's happened to their body is connected to their service.

[837] But the issue that I continue to see is that this is a lack of, one, it's a lack of experience for our politicians.

[838] They don't quite understand what war is and the long -term effects on individual soldiers.

[839] after decades of service and I think, you know, hundreds of my friends, every one of us has some type of long -term effect from their service, every one of us in the sense of do you have sleep issues?

[840] Do you have, you know, gut issues?

[841] Do you have inflammation?

[842] Are you missing a limb?

[843] And really, it's disgusting the amount of emphasis there is ongoing.

[844] And then the lack of the lack of emphasis on care, it really, it saddens me as a society when we have to rely on nonprofits to pay for the care of veterans because the military or the DOD and the tax, the taxpayer essentially, I think if they understood this, if they knew they weren't paying for the long -term care of our service members to the degree that they needed, they would absolutely have no issues stepping up and saying, hey, we have to do something about this.

[845] And it's, it's really when we look at the entire system and how it's put together, there's no way that a person, this is a good story from my friend Clint, he's missing both his legs recently from last year.

[846] During COVID, what was happening is that his leg was changing as far as the shape of it because he was growing an additional layer of bone where his leg was blown off.

[847] and he needed a new leg, but he couldn't get in to get a new leg so he was confined to his wheelchair for almost six months during this process and he couldn't get an appointment.

[848] There's no reason why that should happen.

[849] There's literally zero reason.

[850] We can't have the largest transfer of wealth from a taxpayer into the military industrial complex in modern history without zero ethical argument as far as our entire political system and then not continue to care for our veterans.

[851] There's just no way that we can do that as a society because I think ultimately that defines us and who we are collectively, and it's not a good grade.

[852] Well, there's a long history of the United States doing that.

[853] Remember when people were coming back from the first Gulf War and they were having all these issues with radiation because they used that, what is, depleted uranium rounds?

[854] And they kind of denied, first of all, that they used them.

[855] They denied that this effect was related to that and then birth defects and all sorts of like weird radiation sickness issues that people were having they were calling it Gulf War syndrome but they did their very best to not take care of these people exactly well you look like from Agent Orange in Vietnam and the long -term effects of that and all the studies and research that's coming out right now with the burn pits yes and the carcinogens and how much cancer but then they're like ah you can't really draw the conclusion that it came from burning shit for six months you know and and to Evans point as well it's it's it's it's it's tragic, to be honest, that there's tens of thousands of nonprofits that are having to do the legwork without government grants or funding.

[856] The money is coming from people that are being, you know, participating in philanthropy saying, I want to do something good for these guys and gals that have real issues.

[857] Like to Clint, he's missing his legs and you're going to make him be in a wheelchair for months because of, for me, that's just absolutely unacceptable and there has to be change.

[858] But the story you were telling right before the show about your friend who lost her arms.

[859] Explain that.

[860] One of her good friends, Mary, she's a EOD tech, had both of her arms blown off when she tried to catch some ordinance that they were going to dispose of.

[861] And essentially, she has a full -time caregiver, and she went to go see her family for, I believe it was a month.

[862] And during that time, she didn't have the caregiver because she was with her husband and family and they were taking care of her.

[863] Well, the VA determined after that stint that she doesn't need a full -time caregiver because she obviously was fine that months she was.

[864] away.

[865] And this is a young lady who, amazing person, like just nubs.

[866] There's, you know, she calls herself wonder nubs.

[867] Bless her heart.

[868] She's fucking hilarious.

[869] But she, she can't do things that come so easily to us, like grab things, use the toilet, like, and she has a really funny Twitter about, you know, wiping her ass, I believe she said.

[870] But the fact that that's happening and someone in the VA wasn't like, oh, that's fucking stupid.

[871] Here you go, full -time caregiver like that.

[872] I mean.

[873] They're just trying to find a way to cut money left and Right, and it's just numbers on a piece of paper.

[874] Yeah.

[875] It's numbers on a piece of paper, and it's, I don't think people want to be reminded, right?

[876] One, these are bad decisions.

[877] As we look back in history, and we look at Iraq in particular, and we look at, you know, the tens of thousands of service members that served in Iraq to include myself, I don't know if they want to be reminded of that section of our history on a regular basis, And so when we have amputees, we have health issues with the burn pits, that really, I think, is our cause that we need to talk about as our agent Orange is, you know, I think John Stewart just recently brought it up.

[878] And we're active in the Hunter 7 Foundation, which does a lot of research in this.

[879] But there's zero reason why the government is not funding to the tune of millions of dollars of research to figure out what's happening to the service members with the, They're directly related, you know, lung and health issues from burn pits.

[880] There's zero reason because the only reason is because if they acknowledge that it's a problem, they're going to have to pay for it.

[881] Can you explain burn pits to people?

[882] Yeah.

[883] It's a, it was essentially a big pit where you would put all of your garbage.

[884] Everything.

[885] Everything.

[886] So that's batteries.

[887] That's all the plastics.

[888] It's anything and everything that is required.

[889] Yeah.

[890] It's fecal matter.

[891] It's fecal matter.

[892] It's tires.

[893] It's anything that is directly associated with your living condition in a war that you need to get rid of.

[894] And you would shove it all into a pit, and then it would burn 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

[895] Whoa.

[896] And yes.

[897] There you go.

[898] And how close is this to where you guys were living?

[899] In every one of the fire bases I was at, four and a half years is how much time I have on the ground in Iraq.

[900] on every one of my fire bases there was a burn pit.

[901] And not only that, you're going to have young privates out there with sticks rolling it over in the smoke with probably some knitted fake mask that they're wearing that they got.

[902] And they're the ones in there actually rotating the trash to burn it through completely.

[903] So they're completely subjected to that environment from a very long time.

[904] Whose fucking idea was that?

[905] Really smart, really really smart you know, officers and contractors There's the same guys that decided that, you know, the invasion was going to be a really good idea of Iraq.

[906] They're the same people making those types of decisions in the way that, you know, obviously, when we look at this now and we look back on it and we go, that's dumb as fuck.

[907] There was somebody in a series of people at that point in time in 2003 to 2009 in Iraq that were saying, this is a good idea.

[908] And that type of mentality, I think, is the same type of mentality today that says, this is a good idea for us not to fund the research to figure out what the fuck is going on.

[909] So we can do something about it.

[910] And when we talk about it, right, our voices are only so big.

[911] But I think if people knew what was happening with our generation of veterans, because, you know, I'm 43, you're 33, 34.

[912] 34 you've got all these guys that are coming up with strange cancers like weird one of the jaco's friends and our friends he just died of cancer he's a metal of honor recipient had a strange hard organ cancer or some kind of cancer in his back and he just died six months down the road and what's happening and when we talk about the other foundations and people that are diving into some of this research is incredibly underfunded they're starting to to have this direct connection between the burn pits themselves and the chemicals that ultimately were exposed to or were exposed to, and a lot of the cancers that guys are coming, when I say that, they're developing, I guess.

[913] Obviously.

[914] Yeah.

[915] I mean, it has to be.

[916] There's no fucking way that's good for you.

[917] There's no fucking way.

[918] And that's in the same camp?

[919] Yeah.

[920] It's right there in the fog.

[921] You would have to put, I would take a towel and I would wet it.

[922] and then I would put it down underneath my my door going into this little container or a little shipping container and I would put another one on the top just so I could just so I could sleep the rest of the evening because the smoke was so bad from the burn pits as it would move in you couldn't sleep because you couldn't sleep without coughing and it was going that was every day depending on your on your fire base it was every day so it wasn't the fact that hey man i got all my fingers and toes right you know i survived seven years of war right i feel like a counter argument to that would be like well whatever idiots you signed up for it but if that's not an argument i know someone say that but i think that if you're willing find those people yeah exactly if you're willing to spend a hundred thousand to a million dollars on a guy or a gal to train them up to do a specific job because you look at how much it costs to put them through training and school after school after school and then they get out and we're just like have fun especially guys and gals like we're talking tier one units i have friends that have done 16 17 18 deployments and it it's an injustice because they're willing to sacrifice their life limit body and eyesight for you know i guess the politicians ascend to war but then it's it's a moral obligation as our society that we have to look out for them when they come back and it's not happening it's insane that this is prevalent that they have these burn pits at every base that's fucking insane and for the most part most people don't...

[923] What is this, Jamie?

[924] In Afghanistan, at its peak, more than 400 tons of waste was disposed using burn pits daily.

[925] Jesus Christ.

[926] Yeah, and then the question is, like, what else do you do?

[927] Like, San Francisco fog.

[928] One soldier described the smoke as thick as San Francisco fog.

[929] Every day.

[930] Like pollen dust.

[931] The color of smoke could be blue and black or yellow and orange, however, is mostly black.

[932] Everyone inhaled and ingested it.

[933] it was absorbed by their skin, fuck.

[934] Which is interesting because, you know, I think a lot of people that have deployed if you said, hey, we got to get this trash burnt, you know, we got to do it.

[935] Like, well, we signed up for it, we got it.

[936] But then you got to give them the research and the medical clinicians that understand this going forward and after the fact to actually hopefully not die like this from cancer.

[937] No, no, no, no, no. You got to not do that.

[938] No, I agree, but I'm saying, but there's no way you would say, hey let's let these guys breathe in this shit and then take care of them no you should not burn that shit they've got to figure out another way to get rid of it agreed i mean but even landfills are fucking terrible one of the things they're finding out in these when they're doing these satellite overviews is that methane like they're trying to find like the largest sources of methane and what's contributing to greenhouse gases it's fucking landfills right landfills where you take all your food they pour it into the ground they just covered up with dirt and it's just leaking methane into the atmosphere.

[939] It's fucking terrible.

[940] Like, I don't know what the solution is, but the solution's definitely not burn it right where the soldiers are sleeping.

[941] No, and I think that now that as we continue to evolve, hopefully as a society, and we look at the way that we deploy service members overseas, we've at least identified this as a problem.

[942] But the big thing that I see is we have to continue to look at the problem, fund the research, and look at the direct connection between these types of activities, meaning burn pits.

[943] We're looking at burn pit, and I'm saying that's burn pit, but it's also, you know, I know Tim, obviously, he's been on the podcast, he's an SF guy, I'm an SF guy, but when we look at the long -term effects of, we'll call it the special operations community, because I'm obviously from that subculture, but sleep deprivation, anti -inflammatories, anti -malarials, burn pits, multiple rotations, PTS, this is a holistic health issue for most of these guys returning.

[944] If they don't have direct or visible combat wounds, they have some type of residual.

[945] They've been affected by the war in a long -term residual way.

[946] And I think what happens is the VA continues to evolve, at least past these wars, we have to look at it as a collective and say, how do we make, turn everybody's attention, within the VA system to directly take care of these guys in a very positive and impactful way.

[947] So we don't have people like Mary Dagg that get denied a full -time service caregiver, caregiver.

[948] How's that stand now?

[949] Is it still the way it is right now?

[950] That was like five days ago.

[951] I haven't talked to her since.

[952] I'm actually gonna call her after that.

[953] But yeah, at least give the resources and the funding necessary because I'm sure VA as an organization wants to do good and wants to do great things.

[954] I think that when people just say, the VA sucks it's the wrong way to look at us it's the way it's a how do we critically think and solve the problem and put in process in a plan to go here's the resources you need so we can fix the issues that are right in front of her face yeah i couldn't imagine being a VA bean counter or being someone who works for a VA bean counter who gets the call that you have to like cut the budget by x amount so figure out where you're going to slash these benefits like and then you have to look at these people that you're talking to either on the phone or through email you can't even look at them as a human.

[955] You've got to look at them as a number on a ledger.

[956] It's crazy.

[957] It's crazy.

[958] And then you have, you know, incredible giving nation that backfills that need through, you know, non -profit organizations.

[959] Yeah, I guess my only intent in that conversation is I think the government needs to do a much better job of leading the conversation than being towed around by the entire conversation.

[960] They need to get out in front of it if to take responsibility for it.

[961] And I think that's the big one.

[962] which is taking responsibility for, you know, war just in general and then taking responsibility for the after effects of the individual, soldiers, sailors, Marines, post -war, that just seems to me the thing to do.

[963] And I think most people, if they realize these things were happening, I think the last time I tried to schedule a VA appointment, it was going to take me 200 -plus days to get in to see a physician, you know, about a shoulder injury.

[964] Yeah.

[965] So it's 200 days to get on the list.

[966] And I'm going to be special.

[967] I'm not, I'm not, you know, missing anything, right?

[968] But there are a lot of people that have been directly affected by this that need care.

[969] And now we have the ability, I think, based on the current administration to go see a primary care provider outside of the VA, which I think was a huge step.

[970] But there's still a lot to do, right?

[971] And there's, you know, for us, having this company and what we're doing with it, you know, it's a big, it's a big part of the mission of how we run the company, what we're doing with the company.

[972] It is a huge part of our mission just in general.

[973] It's something we do every day.

[974] And it's awesome.

[975] And I think that's one of the reasons why people love you guys so much.

[976] I mean, it's, the amount of support that you guys have out there in the public.

[977] I think, did I send you that picture when I was in Italy and that guy was in front of me in line?

[978] The guy in front of me in line with a black rifle coffee t -shirt on.

[979] I'm like, all right man it's it's there's something to what you guys are doing that resonates with people that it's not just a coffee brand but it's a coffee brand that supports first responders military veterans and it means a lot to people i think because of that yeah i think it's something i'm really proud of with the company too is giving a more like visceral understanding and perspective of the veteran experience because before the company and kind of the commercials and stuff we did i think there was a very singular perspective what a veteran was it was kind of the chest beating you know, chiseled, Navy seal.

[980] Tattooed, bearded.

[981] And while that exists, I think that it's good to shed light on.

[982] Hey, man, you're tattooed in here.

[983] Yeah, right.

[984] I didn't go full Navy seal and shell my hair today.

[985] Sorry.

[986] But like bringing light to the community that there's so many creative people and veterans or humans, we're just, we're just Americans.

[987] And a lot of, a lot of these guys and gals have other professions and they're talented, they're artists.

[988] And I think humanizing that a little bit allows people not to look at veterans like the two ways that I've seen a lot throughout the years are you're their Captain America or you're a pill -popping depressed veteran that you know goes to bed every night beating your wife and you're like I 90 % of us are in the middle of just people that wanted to do hopefully normal people try to do some extraordinary things in the name of a free society I think there's it's just a cool thing that people like supporting companies like yours that that do have a great message and they do do good things it's a it's a nice aspect that that that you guys can put that message out there and people understand what you're about and that this is a company that was really started by two guys who are veterans.

[989] I mean, it's a big company now, but really just came down to you guys and your love of coffee and just deciding to do this and then start doing good with the money.

[990] And people love that, man. They really do.

[991] It resonates with people a lot.

[992] I mean, I've had black rifle t -shirts on before and people talk to me about it.

[993] It means a lot to them.

[994] Well, I mean, we're thankful that it means a lot to him because we wouldn't be in the position we are to kind of focus on the things that we think are matter and support the organizations that we do and I mean I think that's both of us is end user and end user experience is exactly what we want to have a great quality product and something that motivates people to wake up in the morning and kick ass and if they didn't purchase it we wouldn't be here doing what we're trying to do just also a thing about with you that's like with you Evan you're so it's so obviously authentic like there's a video of you roasting coffee with a frying pan over a like you're such a dork with this stuff it's so obvious and it's real i mean i love people that geek out on shit i just fucking love it even if it's something that i love coffee but even if it's something that i don't even love i just love when people are really into shit it's very contagious well it it's it's it's super fun as i was talking earlier right it's i'm i'm really fortunate just as a you know an adult in america right now so many different ways but i get to i get to do this coffee when I say I'm in coffee every day and I get to I get to explore any piece of the entire aspect of coffee anytime I want and get as detailed into it as much as I want but the thing that I've found that is just as interesting if not more interesting than coffee is as the company gets bigger you know developing our ecosystem as a company we have 400 employees now right it's it's a it's a bigger company 50 plus percent of them are veterans and as I look at our ecosystem and how we support different nonprofits and what we're doing on the company it's it's an incredible high well it sounds like commercial but I love seeing this incredible high quality product because I love going to these countries in central and south America working directly with the farmers and then pulling it back through and then uniting the customer.

[995] and the company is one in this really fucking cool ecosystem.

[996] And it wasn't something that I started out necessarily thinking about where, you know, I wanted to be in charge of a company of 400 people.

[997] That's not what I started out to do.

[998] I literally was roasting coffee in my garage because I was trying to find something else to do when the CIA told me that I couldn't work for him anymore, right?

[999] Like, fuck.

[1000] Like, why did they tell you couldn't work for him anymore?

[1001] Oh, man, you know, a wide variety of reasons.

[1002] You know, I worked there for nine years.

[1003] I deployed probably seven out of those nine years.

[1004] I was angry, you know, and I'm, and I don't want to say that, you know, it was directly my fault.

[1005] But the organization that I started with in Iraq and kind of went from Iraq to Afghanistan and left later, I was tired and burned out and I was fucking angry and honestly they had probably every right to tell me to hit the road and I'm glad that they did at the end of the day it was a wake -up call a wide variety of reasons I was callous I was emotionally unavailable there was a fucking laundry list of things that were broken and how did you get past all that um you know I met my wife in Denver and we got pregnant and I hate when guys say that we we yeah she got pregnant no I I fucked my wife and she got pregnant yeah there we go yeah yeah yeah we're talking yeah and I really thought about it and it was it was hard for me to think about it but I was most fearful of not being able to love my daughter because I didn't have the emotional capacity to do that And it was eye -opening.

[1006] It was actually very scary because that's not the kind of person that I wanted to be.

[1007] And we've all seen examples of people who are that and then realize it later in life.

[1008] It's the saddest thing in the world is when you see a parent and then they have a grown kid that they fucked up.

[1009] Yeah.

[1010] You know, because they weren't because they did have all these other problems they never dealt with.

[1011] And then it's too late.

[1012] And then you have this angry child who you were never there for.

[1013] And then you're like, fuck.

[1014] Exactly.

[1015] I looked at it.

[1016] And I knew in order to be a loving father, a good husband, and a good man, I had to change a lot of shit.

[1017] Like, I really had to have a very difficult series of conversations with myself and give myself a lot of fucking tough love.

[1018] And starting a business was one of the things that I needed to do.

[1019] because it gave me, I couldn't work for anyone else after that.

[1020] I was kind of done with working for other people.

[1021] I was not necessarily searching for purpose, but I knew that I really wanted to do something with coffee and wide variety of reasons that I love coffee.

[1022] Black rifle was an homage to my service rifle.

[1023] And I found myself wanting to teach myself a new skill.

[1024] And then what I wrote was a mission statement.

[1025] And my mission statement was just a mission statement for my life in general, which was to transition out of government service and live a happy and fulfilling life.

[1026] It had nothing to do with money, you know, running a company or hiring people.

[1027] I just wanted to find how to be happy and fulfill myself outside of being a commando or a CIA guy, whatever that definition for myself was.

[1028] But more importantly is I've continued to develop myself, and I'm not saying I'm even close to being a template for anyone, it's a constant state of evolution to be a better man. And I also knew that all the lies that I told myself up to that point of, you know, I'm a green beret, so, you know, I'm less than a one percentile, and I'm a fucking badass, and I'm this and I'm that.

[1029] All of that would have been a lie if I would have been a bad father.

[1030] All of that would have been meaningless.

[1031] It would have been garbage.

[1032] It's just propaganda.

[1033] Every one of my combat rotations, every one of my friends that has been killed or maimed in this war, it would have been a complete, unjustifiable lie to my, to say if I don't be the best man that I possibly can be and work on it now, then all of that is for not.

[1034] It's all shit.

[1035] So I literally, after my first year in business, I was sitting in my garage and I had sold everything that I had owned, you know, and I was chips in on this entire thing.

[1036] And I didn't have anything left to sell.

[1037] I didn't have, I was living in this shitty rental.

[1038] My wife was, you know, packing boxes and roasting coffee.

[1039] And I was getting kind of down to myself.

[1040] And I was crying on this Pelican case in my garage.

[1041] And I, it was a distinct turning point in my life where I said, get up, stop making excuses, stop being a fucking pussy.

[1042] and do something about your life and when i say that like that's the conversation that's the exact conversation i had with my at myself and i've had that conversation almost every day in the last several years about just how can i continue to develop this ecosystem that meets my mission statement for my company that quite literally has nothing to do with money but how do i continue to be positive impact in my environment versus negative taking away or you know contributing to toxicity which is man I I don't want to have anything to do with that life anymore there's a lot of people that have um they have a problem with the way they are and they make a decision to change but they fall back into their old patterns because it's comfortable and because they're they're used to that so how did you avoid doing that like how did you you how did you make real change um well one it's recognizing it right it's kind of recognizing that you have an addiction when you have an addiction um uh you know when you have emotional or anger issues and you're you know you're you're just angry or whatever it is for for for no real reason uh i think one you have to recognize you have a problem and i think you know i've continued to recognize that I have a problem.

[1043] And it's like quitting a habit or anything that you're doing, whether it's quitting smoking or working through a very disciplined diet.

[1044] It's every minute you have the ability, sometimes every second you have the ability to make a decision and have a conscious effort to focus on improvement.

[1045] And when I feel myself, because there are times when I feel myself sliding backwards a little bit into more of negative Evan and we do it all the time and this is one thing I will say about the guys that we have together is it's not just myself it's you know my friends and in the military they're called it sounds so ridiculous but it is it's like we have our battle buddies for a lack of a better term but Matt and Jared our other partner formed a team and the other people within our company that formed a team we can talk to each other in a way that's very candid we can emotionally expose and the other thing is is Matt and I will do it all the time if we're talking and we're talking about negative and we're grinding ourselves into a negative hole like stop stop right now we got better shit to talk about pull ourselves out, dust ourselves off, and you can't, if you're by yourself, it's much more difficult.

[1046] I think when you have really good friends for us, we're business partners, I can be that guy for him and he can be that guy for me and Jared can be the guy for all of us.

[1047] And we have really good friends.

[1048] We have good business partners.

[1049] We have good people in the company that they help they really do and leaving one culture one subculture of you know really tight -knit special operations group of guys starting a business by yourself is difficult enough right it's a very i would imagine it's a it's an extremely difficult endeavor doing it without your friends and people you can trust and people you can rely on i can't even imagine because the things that we've had to go through in the last several years and the reminders like Matt won't let me be a shipback it's just not possible he won't if I start being a lazy shit bag for like a week and I was like you get a hunt or fucking work bro but it's true he won't he won't let me be a shipback and I won't let him be a shit bag either in the sense of if I see him dragging if there's something going on what I call him like what's going on how are you doing What can I talk to you about?

[1050] So I think one, it's focusing on yourself, identifying you have a problem, looking at every minute and every second at times, depending on when it is, on how to be better, and then building a supportive team around you that understands what's going on and how they can continue to get you up.

[1051] And we've had to do this for a lot.

[1052] We've had to cut a lot of toxic people out of our lives.

[1053] like we've had to cut some toxic people out of our lives because they're just negative weight they'll hold you back that's probably been the most challenging thing for for me over the years has been there's always going to be extraneous influences that impact you but i've had to change environments about five different times and find the right team for me and that you know my core competencies work with theirs um but because a lot of people have asked this over the years like how did you get the team like well you went through seven different teams you know toxic relationships or ones that just didn't mesh well together and the hard hardest part of that is just taking that leap of faith and saying, well, this is going to be really weird, but I'm packing my rucksack.

[1054] It's what I did.

[1055] I had a good life.

[1056] I was making a lot of money in my business at the time.

[1057] And, you know, I didn't like the direction things were going.

[1058] And Evan called me and was like, do you want to, do you want to jump into Utah and let's go?

[1059] And I packed up, moved out of my house, broke up my girlfriend at the time, drove to Utah in my tundra and one bag and said, well, time to start over at 26, seven years old.

[1060] And I completely start over.

[1061] I lived in an Airbnb for six months, and I think at face value, that was terrifying.

[1062] But the second I landed in Utah and gotten that Airbnb, and I was like, fuck, all I got to worry about is the one bag of clothes I have and going to work tomorrow is something that I'm passionate about and that I love and the rent's paid, so we're good.

[1063] And from there on, like, I've just chased that feeling and then all the toxicity that kind of has impacted my life with relationships, just get out.

[1064] It's also got to help that you're doing a business with friends as opposed to doing a the business with a bunch of corporate dorks.

[1065] You know, I, I see people that are involved in business, and I see the conversations they have, and it's almost like they're speaking some strange language, some fake language.

[1066] They all get together and talk, corporate talk, and then they get out of there, and they take these big, they take this big deep breath, and they have a drink or they drive home because they're living bullshit.

[1067] They're living a lie all day long.

[1068] They're pretending to be someone they're not.

[1069] I call that the ivory tower syndrome.

[1070] You know, they just blow hot air and don't do anything and they don't believe in their mission.

[1071] And I think that's been the most impactful thing for us is we believe in it and it's easy to be authentic and our communication style between the team.

[1072] And again, the hardest part is probably maintaining that cultural ecosystem in the company, especially as you scale it because you want people to be open, candid, radical transparency.

[1073] Obviously, we're not saying, you know, making fun of people, but we want to be able to say, fuck, let's get this done instead of, well, you know, and.

[1074] And that's why I think we've done so well so far is because we just stick to the mission and grind it out.

[1075] I mean, we're all kind of a bunch of knuckle -draggers that are dumb, but we just outwork our intelligence.

[1076] Yeah, and I think to your point, you know, maintaining mission focus, you know, all of these things that we learned in the military, write your mission statements, maintain your mission focus, radical transparency.

[1077] You know, I'm a zealot at the end of the day.

[1078] I love coffee.

[1079] I love the company.

[1080] I love the ecosystem.

[1081] And it's easy for me. I can go in and high five everybody and we can joke around in the company.

[1082] We have an incredible atmosphere as far as the ecosystem of the company.

[1083] I love going to work there.

[1084] I would hate to go to work in a really, in a corporate environment.

[1085] I actually hate the word corporate.

[1086] Yeah.

[1087] Because to me it just says, this is stodgy, spreadsheet -driven bullshit where you've got a bunch of people that pontificate about things that they have no idea what they're talking about and what they want to do is they want to run a company only for the profit versus the pursuit of authenticity under a real mission.

[1088] There's a huge difference.

[1089] I've stepped into corporate environments a lot and especially like finance guys are some of the worst fucking people ever in the sense of, you know, they're not funny.

[1090] they have no sense of humor.

[1091] I've told bankers to get the fuck out of my office when they're like 15 minutes late just to get some like payback and how many times that they've screwed good people over.

[1092] So the company itself, in the sense of any company and how you kind of create that environment, I don't like this standard corporate templatized system that people work through.

[1093] it's it's really it's confusing to me as well because you know when people are fake you know when you're having a conversation with some executive and he's like oh yeah Susie you're an incredible asset to the company and it's like you don't know who that person is it's inauthentic it's fake and I would hate to go to work in a place like that every day and most people do yeah yeah that's a giant problem with human beings today is that most people don't have a purpose they don't feel good about what they're doing.

[1094] You know, it's that Thoreau quote, most men live lives of quiet desperation.

[1095] And that is real, man. That's really what a lot of people are going through every day, just not having any real connection to what they're doing where they feel good about it.

[1096] They feel like they have a purpose.

[1097] They feel like it makes, like they matter.

[1098] Like they really do matter.

[1099] You know, and then when a lot of these people, when they wind up getting fired by their company, you know, after 30 years, years of working there and they realized that they didn't they were nothing they didn't mean anything it wasn't important it's devastating I think a lot of people like kind of succumb to like that social construct and like this is what you have to do the nine to five kind of thing but not to be a fatalist but something like my positive mindset like we're all born terminal the second we come out at womb we're gonna fucking die and I've always wanted to be super proud because you know I think there's certain aspects of the former jobs I had you have to kind of agree and be comfortable with the fact that there's a high probability of dying and or life -changing events.

[1100] And I think once you realize that it's not a matter of if it's going to happen, it's when, whether that's when I'm 60 and have a heart attack or I live to be 90 or I die tomorrow.

[1101] And that drives me every single day because I look back and go, I don't want to miss out in this fucking crazy thing called life.

[1102] You know, you have one chance to like live this cool fucking experience, whether or not you believe in after in life or not, but we're all going to die.

[1103] And it's very bizarre for me that people don't take leaps of face because they get so trepidacious in everything that they do.

[1104] And they're like, whoa, what if?

[1105] And they hate that uncomfortable feeling.

[1106] We just fucking punch it in the face and go kid it.

[1107] But the problem is roots.

[1108] You know, people, they grow roots before they know what they actually want to do.

[1109] And what I mean by that is, look, you go to college, right?

[1110] And then you have student debt.

[1111] So these are roots, right?

[1112] Now you have to pay off that student debt.

[1113] So you have these obligations.

[1114] Then you get a job, and maybe you lease a car, maybe you get an apartment.

[1115] Now you have roots.

[1116] You have bills you have to pay.

[1117] You have obligations that you can't shirk.

[1118] So maybe you try to save.

[1119] So you save a little.

[1120] Maybe you save 10 % of your income every week.

[1121] So you're putting it away, you put it in a way, and you realize how quickly that goes away.

[1122] You have taxes.

[1123] And then you find yourself five, six, seven years in.

[1124] You're like, I want to make a change, but you have all this shit that you're paying for.

[1125] And then you reward yourself for this terrible job that you hate, by getting a new car or maybe you buy a fucking boat or whatever you know that's what people do and then you're 38 and you're like god damn it I fucking hate my life but now maybe you have a child maybe you're married maybe your wife doesn't work anymore because you know she's pregnant and you're like fuck like what am I going to do with my life and then you find yourself stuck and you you take pills you take antidepressants you do something and this is this is the story of the American life that is untold and this is a lot of people's existence.

[1126] They find themselves in this meaningless path, and then they hear about guys like you, and they get excited.

[1127] They're like, maybe I can figure this out.

[1128] And some of them do, and some of them start a business in their garage, and some of them get together with their friends and say, let's partner up, let's do something, and let's take a chance, like, let's plan, and two years from now, we'll make the leap.

[1129] Let's start it online.

[1130] Let's do something.

[1131] And that's the real American dream, is finding independence, being your own, boss finding something that you really love instead of just doing a job finding a job that actually means something to you yeah it's like finding the excuse to do it and i think there's two avenues there you can always find an excuse not to do something but if you look for the excuse of why you should your output's going to be so much better and and i've had that conversation with people where they say i just don't have the time you can always find time to work out like you want to be your fitness goals find a fucking retention ban in a kettlebell and we'll fuck you up trust me give me 30 minutes and I think that's applicable to anything and everything if you wanted to get into music you can find 20 minutes in the day or get 20 minutes less asleep to practice your guitar or learn graphic design I mean the opportunity is out there especially with the technological area like everything's free right now you can go on YouTube and become a master in any any technical skill for the most part you might not have the accreditation of a degree but it's there the information's there the only inhibitor is you I don't have the time people don't know what the fuck they're talking about I hate that I can find you some folks.

[1132] I can find you some, like my friend Cam Haynes.

[1133] That motherfucker works a full -time job eight hours a day and often runs a marathon a day.

[1134] And then he goes at home and then he shoots his bow for hours and then he lifts weights.

[1135] So shut the fuck up.

[1136] There's people that find time.

[1137] That's like over and over and over.

[1138] You know, it's Cam.

[1139] I love following Cam because guess what?

[1140] It's nothing but positivity comes out of his mouth.

[1141] He's freaking a rock star when it comes to all of the things that you just mentioned.

[1142] Guys like that exist.

[1143] You don't have to be, you know, a Goggins or a Haynes or a Dudley or any of these guys.

[1144] It's a matter of, hey, man, you want to make some changes.

[1145] You're going to have to also risk a little bit, too.

[1146] And that's one thing we're going to have to experience discomfort.

[1147] Yeah, you're going to have to suck it up.

[1148] Yeah.

[1149] It's going to hurt a little bit.

[1150] Yeah.

[1151] You know, if you want to have stronger legs, you know, squats aren't the best fucking thing in the world to do, you know, twice a week or once a week or whatever it is.

[1152] they don't feel good.

[1153] That's the way your legs get strong.

[1154] Yeah, that's the way you get stronger.

[1155] You don't grow from being comfortable.

[1156] No. It doesn't work that way.

[1157] You've got to experience that awful feeling.

[1158] That's why most people don't grow.

[1159] Most people don't grow because they gravitate towards comfort.

[1160] Well, that's one thing I will say about this is, you know, combat to me taught me so many different things about myself, but the one thing that it taught me was that life is finite.

[1161] In order to live, in order to live, you've got a risk.

[1162] You got to risk it, and you've got to risk it.

[1163] suck a little bit.

[1164] You know, for the payoff at the end, you know, that last minute of light that you have in this world, you don't want to be sitting there doing an audit of all the things you should have done.

[1165] That would be the fucking worst.

[1166] That's I really the only thing I truly, truly fear in life is to be on a deathbed and go, I should have done this.

[1167] I mean, I'm sure there'll be small things, but that that changed.

[1168] That's the driving force in everything of my life is I don't want the regrets.

[1169] Yeah.

[1170] Not even a letter.

[1171] Like I, you know, those are the things where it's like, I want to jump out of planes.

[1172] I want to, you know, experience a foreign language.

[1173] I want to go to war.

[1174] When you look at those things, they're younger, when I looked at them as a younger man, and I look at them now, I'm not going to be, you know, whatever age it is, thinking back, going, man, I really wish I would have tried to be a commando.

[1175] I've already got that.

[1176] Now I can focus, I think, a lot more of my energy on how do we, you know, become a better father how to become a better business owner or a better friend but I didn't leave anything on the table in the previous 20 years I didn't leave any of that shit on the table going man I really wish I would have done that no man like I pushed it as hard as I could with whatever was given to me like I did the best that I could with what I got and honestly I'm probably about I'm operating I think at about 150 % right now I'm overextending what capacity I have up here to try to put it all like it's honest like I'm just trying to fucking run it as hard as I can because the machine that I was given is like I'm very fortunate I understand that but I got to run this thing way past its capability to get the most out of it now there's some guys that you know maybe they're phenoms and they're much more intelligent than I am that would be you know one of the things I joke around I say is like man I'd love to be an astrophysicist unfortunately I'm just not that bright so I'm going to have to settle for what the fuck I'm doing.

[1177] But would you.

[1178] Yeah, theoretical physicists would be fucking awesome.

[1179] I'd love to do that.

[1180] I don't know, Matt.

[1181] No?

[1182] No, I think you found the right spot.

[1183] I think people find the right spot.

[1184] If you put enough attention into what you're doing and you gravitate towards what you love, you find the right spot.

[1185] You do.

[1186] You do.

[1187] I used to think that I was a giant loser because I couldn't work a job because I was like, I'm just too lazy.

[1188] I'm just too undisciplined.

[1189] I really used to think that.

[1190] And then I realized like, oh, no, I'm not lazy.

[1191] I just hate things that.

[1192] suck.

[1193] Right.

[1194] You're probably a creative.

[1195] It's pretty much the same as me. Once I figured out like things that I love, I'm like, oh, look, all of a sudden I'm not lazy anymore.

[1196] Now I'm obsessed.

[1197] And I used to think, oh, I used to think that was a weakness that like, oh, I'm not disciplined.

[1198] I'm just obsessed.

[1199] I'm just a crazy person.

[1200] Right.

[1201] So if I find something that I like, I can get really good at it because I'm crazy.

[1202] Right.

[1203] And then I realize like, oh, well, all that shit that they tell you about like ADHD and being hyperactive and not being to pay attention, that's actually you have energy.

[1204] You don't want to sit in a fucking chair when you're 10 years old while some person who doesn't give a fuck about you or what they're teaching is just rambling on in front of you and you're just going crazy you can't wait to get out of there and the doctor's like this man needs to be on some medication this young man has problems paying attention well he should he should well he's got a goddamn chance because maybe he could fucking rock it out of this system maybe he's got enough energy to get away for the gravity of this bullshit that you're teaching them every day So instead of saying, like, oh, this girl needs to be on medication, maybe that girl has a goddamn chance of escaping the hell that you live in.

[1205] Right.

[1206] I couldn't.

[1207] I can't agree more than that.

[1208] I think all of us have this like ball of fucking energy and it zaps everything around us.

[1209] And if you try to point it in a direction where it doesn't work, like I could never be a finance guy.

[1210] Could never be a numbers guy, not a met, like any of that.

[1211] I am too fucking ADHD.

[1212] But what that allows me to do is think in the clouds and be super creative and write and build content and music and all these things.

[1213] And we had a really cool exercise in the business.

[1214] We did kind of like, remember when the...

[1215] Creative problem.

[1216] Yeah, creative problem solving.

[1217] And we all had to take this pretty intricate test.

[1218] And it was the best one I've ever done.

[1219] But it pretty much kind of tells you where you live as far as if you're like an ideator, a developer and all these characteristics of your brain.

[1220] And that's kind of how you build a team because Evan's like an implementer.

[1221] He's like, get this fucking shit done.

[1222] And I'm more of like an ideator where I come up and develop ideas, but then I don't have the follow through, at least on like the.

[1223] business side.

[1224] And so learning about yourself, just because you live in the clouds doesn't mean that, you know, you have ADHD and you need to take anti -frikin, whatever.

[1225] I just think we have this terrible idea of how to develop human beings.

[1226] There's not a kid in the world that wants to sit at a desk eight hours a day.

[1227] There's not a kid in the world.

[1228] No. It's not normal.

[1229] But those they do, great, there's a big system for you, right?

[1230] But even them.

[1231] I don't know how healthy that is.

[1232] Even them, they probably, like, like, it doesn't mean that you can't be an accountant or an astrophysicist.

[1233] No. Like, but, you need activity.

[1234] And children are deprived of activity most of the day.

[1235] And I should have been out like portaging boats on like really nasty out, you know, in British Columbia somewhere by some asshole dude that was, you know, here's 10 minutes worth of work.

[1236] Now you're just going to work you into the ground.

[1237] And when I say that, it's that's the level of, I guess, patience that I had for any of.

[1238] it in the sense of you can't sit a kid at a desk, or at least kids like me, for six or eight hours a day.

[1239] Or anybody in this room.

[1240] My daughter's six years old now.

[1241] We're just having this conversation about school as VTC because of, you know, COVID.

[1242] Man, she's six years old.

[1243] And you want her to sit in front of a laptop for six hours a day?

[1244] You should watch those classes.

[1245] I sat in while my 10 -year -old was at school, and I watched how the teachers talk.

[1246] And I watched, like, what was going on.

[1247] I'm like, holy shit.

[1248] And she looked at me, she goes, it's so boring.

[1249] Yeah.

[1250] She just looked up, it's so boring.

[1251] Are they just talking monotone the whole time?

[1252] Well, in Texas, they let him go to school.

[1253] Right.

[1254] She's in school here.

[1255] She goes to actual school, you know?

[1256] And my 12 -year -old goes to school next week.

[1257] She was doing video for the first couple weeks, and then they're easing them back into school.

[1258] Look, this is a travesty.

[1259] These kids are, they're getting a, especially kids in public school systems, especially kids that have working parents.

[1260] This is fucking devastating for them.

[1261] Devastating.

[1262] Devastating.

[1263] and it's going to fuck up their development for years to come because like if you if you like if you took six months and didn't learn anything for six months that fucks at your development well guess what that's what happened that's what happened a lot of these kids they're not learning shit when they're sitting in front of their laptop they're barely paying attention you can't expect kids to sit in front of a laptop like it's a terrible idea and it's a terrible way to experiment on kids which is you're you're pulling this out of your you know you're pulling this out of your ass.

[1264] Yes, I think this is going to work.

[1265] Let's put them in front of a laptop and we're going to sit them there for six or eight hours a day or whatever it is.

[1266] We're going to give them a lunch break.

[1267] It's having this conversation with my wife.

[1268] I'm like, this is a horrible idea that they're experimenting with kids.

[1269] Just ultimately you have to give them some type of preexisting assignments, but you can't sit them in front of a laptop.

[1270] The other thing is I don't want to teach my kids how to sit in front of a laptop for six hours a day to give them the discipline to do that?

[1271] They were telling my daughter she had to eat lunch in front of the laptop.

[1272] It's the same thing.

[1273] Yeah, you have to eat lunch in front of the laptop.

[1274] Yes.

[1275] They have to see you eat lunch.

[1276] I go, no, you don't.

[1277] I go, let me talk to the teacher.

[1278] Get the fuck out of here.

[1279] You don't have to eat lunch in front of the laptop.

[1280] Come sit at the kitchen table.

[1281] Let's talk.

[1282] What's like the desired outcome in that form of education?

[1283] They're assholes.

[1284] They don't know what the fuck they're doing.

[1285] This is all making it up on the go.

[1286] Yeah.

[1287] If they could justify in some way that a kid should eat lunch, in front of a laptop, instead of eat lunch at their kitchen table.

[1288] Like, why?

[1289] Why?

[1290] So you could see them, so you could see them eat lunch?

[1291] Get the fuck out of here.

[1292] Yeah, and why would you ever think that that's acceptable to do this?

[1293] Well, it's also the teachers don't have any oversight either, and some of these teachers are so bored.

[1294] They're so bored and boring.

[1295] And I've watched them talk rude to the kids.

[1296] I'm like, this is gross.

[1297] This is, it's so bad for them.

[1298] Well, and at least now, the one shining star, I will say, this is that hopefully we come out of this with the ability of some type of homeschooling system that actually works because the one thing about homeschooling for you know the nation is you know what's the one stereotype of homeschooled kids that's we've all kind of religious psychos yeah they're weirdos right weird like now but now we're we're at least living in a time where yeah hopefully this catches up and we can educate children from our home and maybe a a balance between the home and the school that gives them some form of adjustment that works for them.

[1299] That's the one thing I will say about this where I'm like, God, this has been a good thing from a perspective of, in my life, which is I don't travel as much.

[1300] I've chopped a bunch of travel out of my schedule.

[1301] My wife stays home with the kids.

[1302] I've been home with the kids way more than I have in the last five years, and it's forced us to look inside the family a lot more than, you know, on the go, constantly driving outside of the family, doing things outside of the family.

[1303] It's really forced us to be, I think, a much tighter family unit with the four of us.

[1304] And I'm always trying to find the positive in it regardless.

[1305] Like, I'm not, I'm, there's plenty of negative out there.

[1306] We've all talked about it and hear it on the fucking news every day.

[1307] I will say the forcing function in all of this has made my family, I think, tighter, much tighter.

[1308] And I hope it has for a lot of other people, but I know it's been very detrimental to a lot of family units too because they have a lot of financial, they have a lot of financial issues.

[1309] They have, you know, domestic violence issues.

[1310] But for my family, it's really forced us to look inside and really work on us.

[1311] And so I can say we're going to try to come out of this much better family.

[1312] Well, it's like all struggles, right?

[1313] Some struggles make a better person.

[1314] Some struggles destroy you.

[1315] And it really, it depends on what the struggle is and where you're at when you come into it.

[1316] And I think for a lot of people, this is a real eye -opener about your health.

[1317] I mean, and that's what I'm hoping, that more people pay attention to your body.

[1318] There's a direct correlation between your health and your ability to overcome diseases.

[1319] and I really, really hope that that message gets out there and that more people understand that if you are obese, if you are obese, if you do have a bad diet, these are things that you can handle.

[1320] You can do something about this.

[1321] And this is the wake -up call.

[1322] Please, like, fucking take care of yourself because it may be the difference between catching this shit and living through it.

[1323] And it may be in some cases breezing right through it.

[1324] Like, I have a bunch of friends that caught it and like, yeah, I had a cough for a day.

[1325] What the fuck is going?

[1326] on.

[1327] Like quite a few friends that had a cough for a day and felt like shit for two or three days afterwards and then we're done with it and we're working out five days later.

[1328] Yeah.

[1329] Most all my healthy friends is that way too.

[1330] They're athletic.

[1331] I coughed a little bit, kind of felt sick one day and the next day I was fine.

[1332] Paul Rodriguez, okay, who's a friend of mine who's a comedian, he's, I mean, Paul's got to be in his 60s, right?

[1333] He was famous in the fucking 70s.

[1334] Paul, I tested everybody and we did this comedy store documentary and I tested Paul.

[1335] He was the only when I tested positive for the antibodies and I go when do you think you got it and he goes I don't know he goes I think I had a cold in February he's like he had a cold for a couple days and he was he does you know he fucking parties and he's in his he's he's not out there eating wheat grass and fucking doing squats he's he's he's having fun he's a shit he's a comic you know he's a real old school comic getting down partying fine walked it off you know I mean what the fuck is going on.

[1336] But for people that are unhealthy, I just really hope that this is the wake -up call.

[1337] Take care of your goddamn body.

[1338] Take care of your health.

[1339] Take some vitamin D and zinc and C and just make that a priority.

[1340] Make it a priority to, whereas if you got sick, you're not worried.

[1341] It's interesting, too, because a lot of things that people rely on as far as substances will absolutely go away if you follow a healthy diet and exercise routine.

[1342] I mean, the euphoria and like how I feel post -workout is one of the most amazing feelings I've ever.

[1343] So it's not only like a bodily function, it's a cognitive one as well, just all the endorphins you get and you're like, I'm ready for the day and then you feel accomplished.

[1344] I mean, it's like incremental success makes great success.

[1345] And those little wins throughout the day and I think working out is one of them, more people need that feeling of fuck, I feel good.

[1346] Yeah.

[1347] Food is probably the most overused tool to deal with anxiety and exercise is the most underused tool to deal with depression.

[1348] And those two things, like food will fuck you up if you just eat to calm yourself.

[1349] Yeah.

[1350] And exercise will help you in a gigantic way if you use it to deal with depression and anxiety and everything else.

[1351] So let me ask the question, though, because I've heard you talk about it on the show, which why is it that we can't have that national conversation?

[1352] Why do you think our, I mean, we just had the presidential debates last night, but why is it the, That was fucking, I put on my Instagram.

[1353] I'm like, we don't need me. You need big John McCarthy.

[1354] John McCarthy, yeah.

[1355] Get the UFC ref in here.

[1356] Let's go.

[1357] But he's like the most authoritative UFC referee because he was a cop for years.

[1358] He's amazing.

[1359] Stand over there.

[1360] Stand over there.

[1361] Like he fucking controls the situation.

[1362] You know, he would have controlled that.

[1363] Man, yeah.

[1364] Why can't we have the conversation?

[1365] Because he can't be mean.

[1366] Can't say, hey, stop shoving.

[1367] sugar and fucking saturated bullshit and fucking oils and vegetable grease and all the crap and fucking all the nonsense to people stuff in their face stop stop doing that you're fat it's fucking you up yeah there's a fucking picture man from like the 19 early 1900s of a guy at a carnival and he's the the fat guy at a side show right and he's a normal fat guy for today right If you looked at this picture and, like, you know, they had the bearded lady.

[1368] He was an exhibit.

[1369] Oh, wow.

[1370] Shut up.

[1371] He was so fat that people were like, holy fuck, look at this guy.

[1372] You could see when Disneyland was open, you could see a hundred of those guys rolling around on scooters.

[1373] He's a normal person today, like a normal overweight person.

[1374] Because people didn't have the access to bullshit back then.

[1375] Like, to get that fat was hard.

[1376] Right.

[1377] When you don't have that kind of sugar in your diet, you know, the amount of gluten and grains and fucking nonsense that people eat today it's so easy to get that fat but back then it was really hard see if you could find that picture Jamie I typed it in and I found a lot of giant fat guys from back then but see but find the one there was a the guy was in a side show to carnival so I typed in I don't know how to find that particular Harold huge alive 712 pounds well go to the one of the upper left hand corner look at that guy that guy you could find anywhere today yeah yeah You can cruise down into the supermarket.

[1378] That was a side show guy.

[1379] That's a side show guy back then.

[1380] Harold, huge.

[1381] But that's a drawing, unfortunately.

[1382] The Harold huge.

[1383] Look at that guy up there.

[1384] Go to that guy up above that.

[1385] Go to that guy right there.

[1386] That guy's fucking right down the street.

[1387] You go to the barbecue store.

[1388] Barbecue store.

[1389] Restaurant.

[1390] That guy's waiting in line for more bread.

[1391] How do you change that, right?

[1392] Where if you say something like that, you'll have people that are heavier and say you're fat shaming.

[1393] I am.

[1394] That's what I'm doing.

[1395] but yeah that's how you feel bad you feel bad if someone fat shames you and then you make decisions that you can't fat comfort right that's the thing what we that's nothing what what four fat men at the circus jesus christ like that's jared taylor right there the subculture that we grew up in right in our 20s when we're 18 to 20 30 whatever it was like man we'd have we would have guys slapping food out of your hands and going fatty because in the mill it back in the back in the day, and I'm not saying back in the day, right?

[1396] I guess it makes you sound old bit.

[1397] I'm washed up enough to say that now.

[1398] Yeah, we're washed up enough.

[1399] Dude, you could shame the shit out of people.

[1400] And that's just the way it worked, which was, hey, fatty.

[1401] And if you weren't meeting a task or, you know, task condition standard, you would have guys in the NCOs, non -commissioned officers in your child line selecting your food for you, going, dude, you're going to eat this, you're not going to eat this.

[1402] And then people would go to eat something and literally slap it out of your face.

[1403] and go, you're, you're not eating that.

[1404] Now, there's these open discussions, and you read it, and all of a sudden we're bad people because we want people to be healthier if we say, hey, that person's obese or that's fat and that's unhealthy.

[1405] How did it, how did this turn to people being a bad guy?

[1406] Because people, that's all it is.

[1407] They think it's good to be nice, and it is good to be nice.

[1408] But the reality is when you're mean to someone, about certain things that you actually can change.

[1409] Like it's one thing, it's like you say to someone, you got a stupid fucking nose, man. Like, well, you can't do anything about your nose.

[1410] But if you say to someone like, bro, you're fat as fuck.

[1411] And then they have to feel that.

[1412] Like, oh, my God, I hate being fat.

[1413] Make a choice.

[1414] Make a choice.

[1415] Do something.

[1416] Well, is it better to be nice to someone about that?

[1417] Yes, most certainly.

[1418] Is it better if you have a friend, and I've had friends that I pulled aside and said, listen, man, you've got to lose weight.

[1419] You got to do something to lose weight.

[1420] You know how many of them have done that?

[1421] Zero.

[1422] Yeah.

[1423] They don't listen.

[1424] Like, the only time it ever works is when the person decides that they want to make a change.

[1425] And oftentimes, that comes from pain.

[1426] And oftentimes that comes from being mocked.

[1427] And, yeah, it's not nice.

[1428] It's not nice to fath -shame someone.

[1429] Not nice is dying a diabetes, especially if it's coming from an empathetic position where you're like, I'm saying this because I want you to live, which means I like you.

[1430] But the thing is.

[1431] people are lazy and when you tell them that they're fat all people like to consider is like you are shaming a person because of their body shape and that's terrible and that's awful that's true but if you also say to that person like hey i love you i care about you but i'm going to be honest with you you're fat as fuck and you need to lose weight that's also fat shaming well but this is there's very few ways to get through to someone if someone's drunk if they're a fucking alcohol can they get drunk every night and you pull them aside and go hey man you are a fucking drunk and you need to stop you need to get your shit together and they they feel bad because they love you like oh evan says i'm a drunk i respect evan fuck what am i doing god damn and i got to get my life together somehow and another that's okay but telling someone that they're a fat fuck is not okay because you're fat shaming well because you're making them feel bad because of their addiction to food versus their addiction to alcohol like what if you see someone smoking every day go hey man those fucking things are going to kill you.

[1432] Are you cigarette shaming?

[1433] Like, what are we doing here?

[1434] It's true.

[1435] Evan told me I was drinking a little too much whiskey at one point.

[1436] I said, you're, you're offending me. It's your being, you're shaming, alcohol shaming me. Yeah, he actually told me that he identified as somebody that doesn't drink at all.

[1437] Yeah.

[1438] I identify as a non -drinker now, so I'm fine.

[1439] This whiskey identifies as water, so your argument is invalid, Evan.

[1440] Do you know that they're using gender neutral language in the seals now?

[1441] Yeah.

[1442] Did you see that?

[1443] It's got, it made it all the way to the seals.

[1444] I sent it to Jocko and I sent it to Gaggins.

[1445] And I was like, what the fuck is this shit?

[1446] I was the same.

[1447] I was texting there talking to Jocko this morning because they, did you, did you read it where they, gender neutral, uh, it you can't identify as him or her, it's there.

[1448] They've changed this entire, uh, I think it's a, the, how did that get in there?

[1449] How did that get all the way to the seals?

[1450] How did someone not say, hey, fuck you?

[1451] Uh, I think that it's the same way that, uh, Most of these policies kind of they bypass logic.

[1452] They go through some type of bureaucratic mechanism where somebody thinks it's a good idea.

[1453] And typically this is going to be an officer that's looking to be promoted off of some merit where they're going to go, I'm going to change this.

[1454] This is going to be a good thing for my career because this is where I'm going to hang my hat on this.

[1455] I'm going to look progressive.

[1456] I'm going to look progressive.

[1457] I'm going to look really good for the rest of the coming in.

[1458] This is going to resonate with the rest of the culture that we're living in right now.

[1459] People are going to go, ooh, even the seals are being progressive.

[1460] Exactly.

[1461] And I think that's how it happens.

[1462] When you gunned down the bad guys, were you a they or a them?

[1463] What were you?

[1464] That's the ridiculousness of it.

[1465] I mean, these are like trained war fighters doing one of the most difficult jobs on the planet, and we're going to bring bureaucratic, like, weird fucking bullshit into it.

[1466] It's like, no, we are training them to do the world's worst act, is kill another human being in hopefulness that it's saving more human lives.

[1467] I mean, this is not a PC job.

[1468] You're getting trained with hand grenades, rocket launchers, guns to put night vision on and sneak in the houses and shoot motherfuckers in the face.

[1469] And the danger is, if you do make it politically correct, you're going to cost U .S. service members' lives.

[1470] That's the problem.

[1471] And then if you bring all this bullshit into it, then you're decreasing the survivability and the training that these guys and gals need to succeed and be a high functioning unit to live.

[1472] This is not a game of like sensitivity.

[1473] This is a game of life and death.

[1474] And people say, oh, you're exaggerating.

[1475] It's not going to cause people lives to be polite and use non -gendered language.

[1476] No, this is one step on a fucking greased uphill.

[1477] Yeah, exactly.

[1478] And this is what happens.

[1479] If you let that shit get in there, it's going to be like, people used to say why does anyone care about what goes on in college campuses?

[1480] This is not happening in the real world.

[1481] Stop worrying about like leftist ideology that's permeating in school.

[1482] Well, look at what happened in Seattle.

[1483] Look what's going on in Portland.

[1484] That shit bleeds out into real life.

[1485] And if that shit bleeds out into the seals, you got real problems.

[1486] Well, I think that's a really good point from the entire warfighter.

[1487] When we look at the entire warfighter across America, we have a very small subsection of guys that carry the lion's share of the war fighting.

[1488] And, you know, the special operations community, the infantry, in the combat arms.

[1489] So when we look at that, it's a really small number of guys.

[1490] And to Matt's point, it's the most politically incorrect profession in the United States, quite possibly in the world, because what you're doing is you're taking human life.

[1491] You can't have these two things.

[1492] You can't be politically correct and shoot people in the face.

[1493] You can't have both.

[1494] I'm sorry, America.

[1495] You can't have the two.

[1496] You have to have your war fighters that are out there, Especially when you're America, you have to have the guys that are trained to go out at night and do this every fucking night and take it to every terrorist, every bad guy internationally to protect you in your sleeping beds.

[1497] You have to do that.

[1498] You can't have a politically correct warfighter.

[1499] Knock, knock, I'm sorry, you identify as a politically correct nonviolent terrorist.

[1500] I guess we'll move on to the next house.

[1501] That doesn't work.

[1502] It's completely illogical.

[1503] You can't fight wars with a politically correct attorney.

[1504] And guess what?

[1505] They're not politically correct.

[1506] The people that you're opposing, these fucking dictators and all these different terrorist organizations, they're not playing by those rules.

[1507] If you play by those rules, you're handicapping yourself.

[1508] And it's just nonsense.

[1509] It's nonsense.

[1510] Yeah.

[1511] And those types of people have no regard for human life, you know.

[1512] And I've seen it personally when politics get involved in wars, it kills people.

[1513] I mean, I have a few instances where there were, you know, you can't drop ordinance on guys you just got ambushed by because the local village said you can't use, you know, bombs from planes.

[1514] And you're like, one of our guys just got shot.

[1515] You know, we killed the three that ran out the front door, but the six that ran out the back door, I'm just supposed to let them go live from an ethical perspective.

[1516] They're going to go do this again, and I hope they don't go plant bombs and blow up a whole, you know, engineer vehicle and kill six Americans.

[1517] Like, where's the efficacy in that?

[1518] Because you didn't want to offend somebody?

[1519] Politics don't work in war.

[1520] Obviously, you need rules and regulations and ROE and things that, you know, but that's where the training comes in.

[1521] You're acting on an ethical basis on the ground.

[1522] But again, I don't think anybody understands, if you haven't been there, how dynamic and complex some of these situations when it's completely dark.

[1523] night vision in a laser and you're having to make moments seconds, milliseconds to make a decision whether you survive or you don't.

[1524] It's, there's no black and white with that.

[1525] It's very complicated.

[1526] And that goes back the whole thing why you've got to look out for veterans and post -service because they're putting some very, very, very difficult situations.

[1527] Yeah, when you're yelling at someone giving orders, you can't ask them what pronouns they use.

[1528] And they're going to lie and deceive.

[1529] I mean, you know, I, my team learned squad.

[1530] We both got killed because of that.

[1531] We did a call out, and they said no one was in the building.

[1532] They swore to a law and all this stuff, and we went in there, and we got hemmed up really, really bad.

[1533] So, you know, there's no moral, like, decision -making on their side as far as, well, better tell the Americans we are harpointed in this building with AK -47s and suicide vests.

[1534] No, they're going to lie their balls off because they're trying to fucking kill us.

[1535] Well, and I think that when the expectation for the overall, you know, the warrior class, really what it is, for them to kind of adapt to this politically correct culture, it's, we've seen it, I think, and I've seen it, especially when we look at some of the other countries that we actually have fought with, some of these guys have to come to the United States, for instance, to get really good weapons training.

[1536] because weapons are illegal in places like the U .K. So you'll have British soldiers that'll come over here, especially their special forces.

[1537] They'll come over and train with us because they have restrictions on how often they can use firearms in the U .K. So that's a great plan.

[1538] Let's make all firearms illegal.

[1539] And then, oh, by the way, our special operations have a hard time training with them.

[1540] And there's a very distinct and huge difference between the proficiency and the way that they're utilizing their weapons and the way that we do it because of our culture.

[1541] So our warrior class as a society, we really have to look at it and say, how do we protect them?

[1542] You know, and if we're going to continue to maintain, you know, our sovereignty and security of the nation, we really have to create a place where these guys are not affected by the bullshit that goes on in the United States as far as, you know, woe cancer culture bullshit.

[1543] We've got to protect them from this.

[1544] and we've also got to just decide that these guys are trained at a high proficiency level to do something exceedingly difficult and we want to keep them we want to keep them over there like they are a break glass in case of war and now wars of just perpetual essentially so keep them separate from the rest of this because we really want those guys to be proficient so we can go to bed every night and kind of rest easy you know what I mean?

[1545] One of the things you talked about about where this probably came from It's a reoccurring theme in Jack Carr's books as well, is that there's these officers that are career politicians, really, that are also in the military, and they're really just trying to advance their career.

[1546] And it's one of those archetypes that resonates.

[1547] Like you go, oh, I bet that guy's real.

[1548] Like, it makes sense.

[1549] It makes sense as, like, sort of an evil sort of a bullshit artist that happens to be an officer and claims responsibility for all the good things and doesn't take responsibility.

[1550] responsibility for the bad things, winds up getting people killed or winds up being corrupt.

[1551] How often is that really the case?

[1552] It's often, and we run into it, and I've described it a lot as you have a group of, and it can be non -commissioned officers or officers, and you have a group of guys, non -commissioned officers are guys that have enlisted in the military, and they either went to college or didn't go to college, but they've enlisted and they've worked their way up through the ranks.

[1553] Officers have gone to college.

[1554] They've gone to either ROTC or the academy.

[1555] And there's two distinctly different ranking systems.

[1556] So enlisted, I just go down, raise your hand, join the military, work your way up.

[1557] The officers are typically in charge of the NCOs.

[1558] That's most of the time.

[1559] There are some special operations unit where units where that's a little bit more fluid.

[1560] but in any government bureaucracy specifically in the military and I think even in the intelligence community you have you have personality types just like you do in any organization you have the mission first guys people they're like I'm ready to fucking do whatever it is I need to do in order to accomplish the mission they're the they're the bread and butter of what's happening overseas and there's a ton of those guys and then you have a minority of mees.

[1561] And the mees are the guys that are, I'm here to elevate and rank.

[1562] I'm here to shirk responsibility and make sure that I take responsibility for other people's actions.

[1563] And I'm here to be a careerist, essentially.

[1564] And I'll do anything to get promoted to include what they call throwing our guys under the bus.

[1565] So Andy Stomps is a good example.

[1566] he was an officer, but he, he, you would never know that, right?

[1567] He would never throw his guys under the bus.

[1568] Jock was a great example.

[1569] He'd never throw his guys under the bus.

[1570] You know, good leaders eat last.

[1571] They're not careerists.

[1572] They're not trying to do anything or say anything in order to get promoted.

[1573] They're mission first, very capable and driven people that ultimately don't care if they get credit for what happens.

[1574] And most of the time, those guys sacrifice.

[1575] their career and their promotions because they're going to always default to what's right.

[1576] The mees are always going to default to what's best for me. And then what happens is those mees start to get a, they move up much faster and more effectively than the mission guys.

[1577] And the subsequent effect of that, which you see is you have the me guys that are moving up in ranks and then it is a massive, you know, downside to the guys that are mission first because they want to focus on their team and getting what they need to get done done.

[1578] And then they pretty much get out of the military because they're like, ah, I don't like this political crap.

[1579] I hear that.

[1580] I hear that all the time from guys.

[1581] It's a big, the retention on a lot of the really great guys and gals that serve, I think, is directly correlated to the me people because they're essentially all about professional progression rather than how do we do the best mission and then give the team.

[1582] Everything's a team effort in life.

[1583] if you can't accomplish shit in your own, really.

[1584] Just like a podcast, you need the producer, you need the book.

[1585] Like, it's a team effort.

[1586] And sure you have the leader, but when you have the officer types and even at some NGOs that are, I did it, you know.

[1587] And they put a lot of the guys at risk where they'll do dumb shit on target or it happened to me where it was like, we did like land, sea and air movement for the sake of doing it.

[1588] And I was the route since you.

[1589] I'm like, hey, why aren't we landing on the X or the Y?

[1590] Like, we're good to go.

[1591] Like, 160th you said we're in.

[1592] Like, shut up best.

[1593] this is what we're doing and it was essentially because an officer wanted to use his rangers by lancie or air for whatever no write -up that he might get a bronze star for when the only thing that happened was risking the lives of americans and special operation guys because you just made them move x amount of clicks farther on that movement to target which you know iEDs ambushes there checks and balances to eliminate those guys or to make sure that those guys get exposed because I would imagine that for the enlisted men and for the NCOs and for all the people that have the right thoughts in mind and the right intentions in mind they would not want that to be there and I would imagine that that's the majority of the people yes and no I think that that's why the special operations community has such a high rate of volunteer because they're escaping the conventional military where there's more careerism in the conventional military and when you go to the special operations world, there's less of that.

[1594] You're more of, it's more of a peer system.

[1595] It's driven on the individual capabilities in the sense of, this is my team.

[1596] Everything that I do is going to be evaluated by my team.

[1597] And ultimately, if I'm an officer that's, that's messed up, I can be fired.

[1598] Right.

[1599] My team can fire me. There's less of that in the conventional military system because there's a hierarchy of tradition.

[1600] Now, I think the conventional military can definitely take a page out of the Special Operations Community Book and ultimately make really good decisions on how they select officers and leaders just in general because leadership is, one, it's a dying art in, I think just it's a dying art in general because of what's happening.

[1601] Yeah.

[1602] The military has an incredible.

[1603] incredible institution of knowledge on how to really curate good leaders.

[1604] They do.

[1605] In the special operations community, of course, I'm biased, but they create incredible leaders.

[1606] They know how to really curate people's talent and put the right people in the right positions and then develop leaders.

[1607] That's why Jocko does so well, bringing that knowledge to business and doing all these speeches.

[1608] or he's so well sought after because they want to hear a real leader with the highest stakes in the world, combat, and talking about what leadership entails.

[1609] Absolutely.

[1610] And for my example that I made earlier, that was a one -off.

[1611] I mean, the leadership that came out of Ranger Battalion, I mean, I couldn't have been more thankful to be a part of that unit.

[1612] And you see a lot of those guys that worked their way up through the ranks in Ranger Battalion move on to Tier 1 units and do have extraordinary heroic careers.

[1613] And it is, you can definitely tell the, cultural differences from a special operations leadership to the conventional.

[1614] And that's not a knock in the conventional because I think if you raise your right hand, you're epic.

[1615] But I think there's some knots to be untied with some of the leadership and the career officers because there's a certain point probably when you pin a star, you're no longer an officer.

[1616] You're a politician and you're appointed by politicians.

[1617] So once you move up past a certain rank, you're essentially appointed by politicians and which now every four to eight years obviously there's a rotation in how you're selected who is selected for what so you'll start to see different aspects of the officer core shift based on administration because it's it's led by the administration and then it takes a few years and ultimately it goes back and forth and back and forth but you know to go back to your original question is how do you continue to develop that?

[1618] I think the checks and balances are, it's a very traditionally based organization, right?

[1619] The military is incredible in a lot of different things.

[1620] And one thing that there has to be is there has to be somewhat of a firewall from what's happening in the newest trend and, you know, the newest trend in social science and how it affects our military.

[1621] I think there really has to be a big wall as far as what's affecting it and what isn't.

[1622] And I think that as far as how we get the right people and the right places in the military, boy, that's probably a three -hour podcast in itself as far as just unpacking that.

[1623] They're so incredible and not to take away from anything that's happening, but that there are some incredible people that continue to serve in the most honorable capacity in the United States military day in and day out.

[1624] They're mission first people that we never hear about that go through 20, you know, 30 years of a career.

[1625] They retire and they move in next door and you'd never know what they did.

[1626] Yeah.

[1627] And those are the guys that, you know, when we look at the community, when we look at what we're doing, just in general, those are the guys that I really respect in the sense of, you know, we have our subculture and our friends, but, you know, the people are trying to earn our respect for are the guys that we know have always served in silence that are the silent professionals that continue to do the work day in and day out.

[1628] And if we have their respect and we can continue to promote in different aspects of what they're doing in their mission.

[1629] We do that all the time.

[1630] And when we do that, what I mean by that is, you know, whether it's donating money or time or all the things that we try to do, we've shipped hundreds of thousands of bags of coffee overseas to guys that are serving the country, to our friends that are in command -driven units that are doing really difficult work.

[1631] And our little sacrifice that we make, and it's really not a sacrifice, our little commitment to them is ship them coffee, how do we dedicate more time and money and encourage the good people that serve the country day in and day out that are really, they're the heroes, right?

[1632] When we look at this, when I look at the SEAL team memo, for instance, and I say, there's a guy up there that made some change because he wants to, you know, get a promotion.

[1633] but that's not really going to change the teams.

[1634] You know, the teams are going to stay the same.

[1635] Those guys are going to go to work every day just like they have.

[1636] They're going to be silent professionals doing very difficult work day in and day out.

[1637] It doesn't matter if you identify them as lamp or there or thems or who's or whatever it is.

[1638] They're going to still do the mission.

[1639] Thank goodness they're doing that mission.

[1640] So, you know, how do we just keep promoting it?

[1641] Well, that's the fear that I have of people that don't have an understanding of this that are involved in policy.

[1642] You know, when you talk about people defunding the military, and when I talk to Tim Kennedy, and he talked to me about the stark difference between the previous administration and when Trump took over.

[1643] And one thing, say, good things are bad, things about Trump all day long.

[1644] But one good thing you can say is he gave the military the money that they needed, and he let them off the leash.

[1645] He didn't politicize it.

[1646] He just gave them the money that they needed, and they stopped ISIS in a year.

[1647] Yeah.

[1648] And he talked about it in great detail.

[1649] He's like, the difference was so stark.

[1650] between the previous administration and when Trump took over and having the resources to do what they needed to do and get the green light.

[1651] And he's like, we stopped ISIS in a year.

[1652] There was no in ISIS camps that they wouldn't airstrike because of politics.

[1653] And then when they transitioned over to kind of the ground force command level and said, what do we got to do to wipe ISIS?

[1654] They go, here's the plan.

[1655] Go.

[1656] Dead.

[1657] Done.

[1658] That's the way it needs to be in my opinion.

[1659] That is the way it needs to be if you want to stay safe.

[1660] Yeah.

[1661] Yeah.

[1662] And not just us, but other parts of the world when you have radical fundamentalists like that that are doing wild shit man and you could watch the videos that do get leaked i mean it's fucking horrific and the idea that that somehow another this these policies are dictated by people who don't understand what's happening there and not by military people not by people that are on the ground that's crazy what i don't know exactly what the answer is to that which is when you have professional politicians and especially career politicians that really they're fundamentally corrupted by ultimately the military lobbying aspects of our country.

[1663] They're going to be driven left or right in any one of these countries.

[1664] And when I say that, you know, Afghanistan is a really good example.

[1665] How many days did it take us to overthrow Afghanistan or the Taliban and Afghanistan what, 150?

[1666] days, and that was back in 2000, September, October, November of 2001, right?

[1667] So roughly 90 days after the towers went down, we invaded Afghanistan to overthrow the Taliban.

[1668] It took us less than six months to essentially go from north to south in that country with a small contingent of special operations and CIA guys, roughly, give or take.

[1669] And then you have a long -term war of occupation, which has lasted almost 20 years now.

[1670] And We have the special operations units that essentially invaded over through the Taliban, and then we have a long -term war of occupation, and we have several different administrations that have continued to increase troop size.

[1671] To what reason?

[1672] Why?

[1673] And then Trump, like him or not, is saying, well, let's downsize our troop involvement in Central Asia or Afghanistan.

[1674] I think the only bipartisan agreement that they've had, in the Senate and the Congress in the last six months was to maintain troop levels in Afghanistan for what reason exactly why and when Trump talks about it this is where it gets creepy he says there is a military industrial complex that wants to go to war they want to keep war going they want that money endless war a lot of money no one even brings it up he says it and it doesn't become a big issue he brought it up in an interview on Fox News and that was it That was it.

[1675] And no one not ever was like, no, it wasn't a giant deal.

[1676] Like, wait a minute, you're saying we have a large contingent of soldiers over there just for money?

[1677] Is that what you're saying?

[1678] Like, what are you saying?

[1679] I think, you know, I think personally, yes, I think large -scale wars of occupation are about the transference of wealth from the taxpayer to the military industrial complex because I've seen it.

[1680] A small -scale special operations contingent as far as.

[1681] is we'll use Afghanistan as the template.

[1682] You can do a lot with a force multiplier, and it's by with and through your local nationals.

[1683] And I think it's typically a more mature soldier that already has a mature and developed brain, too, by the way.

[1684] You know, past the age of 24, typically special operations guys are a little bit older.

[1685] And then you have a force multiplying effect, and ultimately you don't have a large, large -scale war of occupation, which now you have 18 -year -old kids that are driving around in tanks, that are flying around and, you know, big, robust, you know, C -5, you know, logistics.

[1686] But it's less, it's more cost -effective to do that.

[1687] And it's also not as, I think it's also not as politically advantageous for politicians.

[1688] So people love to support and celebrate the previous administration for all the great things that Obama did.

[1689] Okay, but he increased troop levels in both Afghanistan.

[1690] They say, well, he withdrew from Iraq.

[1691] But no, we had another surge in Iraq after that.

[1692] And we surged in Afghanistan after that.

[1693] Well, there's really not a coherent and logical argument that I can hear or that I've heard in the last 10 years that that, you know, I've either been in Afghanistan or Iraq for a large -scale military occupational force in either one of those countries.

[1694] So when you have a president that's saying, I think we should downsize our footprint and you don't have the left or the right supporting that, it seems fucking crazy to me. It seems, one, it seems crazy.

[1695] And two, where are our media outlets and where are the other people saying, maybe we should should break this down and look like and look at it from the second and third order effects of a of a troop downsize can we still maintain the sovereignty and the security of the united states at at more cost effective rate meaning less blood less treasure can we do that my answer to that is absolutely we should be able to do that absolutely but you know why we can't because it's more cost effective for us to have a special operations smaller contingent and it's it's less it's more costly to move big logistics you know tanks and airplanes and fuel and everything else that's where taxpayers you you're you as a taxpayer are essentially paying to fund all of that and that's that's my that's my two cents on it at least it's crazy it's crazy that that's both Democrats and Republicans, and that there's no one stepping up and saying, this is nonsense.

[1696] We need to stop doing this.

[1697] And I don't understand, I don't exactly understand why either.

[1698] I really don't, because I keep waiting.

[1699] I keep waiting for the congressmen and the senators and a few of these other people to step up and say, wait a minute.

[1700] Can we decrease our footprint in these countries and still maintain security and ultimately protect the sovereign?

[1701] the United States, I think we can.

[1702] But nobody is stepping in to the shoot after Trump and essentially backing him and saying, yes, I think this is a good idea.

[1703] Whereas the left should be all over this.

[1704] Yeah.

[1705] They should be, hey, less war, right?

[1706] I mean, this is the hippie movement.

[1707] Like, less war is good.

[1708] No, you had the left fighting him over his Syrian troop withdrawal, which is insane to me that you had media outlets that were defending the increase of troop levels.

[1709] in Syria.

[1710] So what I don't understand, like, why is it just the sheer amount of money?

[1711] So are they influencing the politicians and the politicians all uniformly agree to go along with this?

[1712] I'd say probably a large part is government contracts, right?

[1713] Bullets, oil, you know, it all cost money, missiles.

[1714] And a lot of those are government contracts ran by private entities.

[1715] And the cash flow that goes to the government, they have to subsidize and go to other companies to get what they need.

[1716] And there's a lot, I mean, hundreds of millions of dollars.

[1717] I mean, trillions.

[1718] This is trillions of dollars.

[1719] On overall scope.

[1720] Senate rejects Paul proposal and withdrawing troops from Afghanistan.

[1721] Wow.

[1722] That's today.

[1723] No, July.

[1724] I'm sorry.

[1725] Yeah.

[1726] And what was the vote on that?

[1727] I forget.

[1728] I know.

[1729] Yeah.

[1730] So where they agree.

[1731] So, you know, we can, where they agree is we need to maintain or increase or maintain troop levels in Afghanistan.

[1732] That's where we can get everybody to agree.

[1733] that that sounds that that's completely rational and what is their argument for it what is there I mean I don't know what like especially coming from the left I have heard the argument and it's to maintain stability because they don't want the the state to ultimately collapse and cause a failed state which then puts us back into the previous circumstance where it where the Taliban can continue to increase and increase their power ultimately developing a new terrorist organization or harboring terrorist organizations.

[1734] And my answer to that is, you don't need tanks on the ground to do that.

[1735] You need a bunch of commandos.

[1736] And a few CIA guys, there's 23 provinces in that country.

[1737] It's really not that big.

[1738] You have Pakistan, obviously, in a few of these bordering countries, but you don't need a large -scale occupational force to do what you're talking about.

[1739] So what does the large -scale occupational force?

[1740] serve?

[1741] From my perspective, it serves the transference of taxpayer dollars from the taxpayer into the military industrial complex.

[1742] That's what it serves.

[1743] Now, the argument is that they need all of this in order to maintain stability within Afghanistan.

[1744] That's the argument.

[1745] They need all of it.

[1746] That's not a good argument?

[1747] I don't think so, because I think that they've proven that they can, if the mission or the end state, and that's the other issue, what's your success?

[1748] criteria.

[1749] So lay out the success criteria for Afghanistan.

[1750] Have you ever heard the United States government's success criteria for for Afghanistan?

[1751] No. Right.

[1752] And that's because there really isn't one in which is a fucking problem.

[1753] When our leaders go to war without success criteria, it's really easy to maintain a military footprint for an endless amount of time because is that you're always chasing a new definition for what it means to succeed.

[1754] There's no definition of when.

[1755] There's no end to it.

[1756] So why is there not minimum success criteria is something that you need to have on anything?

[1757] What do I need in order for this organization to deem itself a success?

[1758] The expectation for our politicians and our leaders is they have to publish minimum success criteria for any war they ever go into.

[1759] And then once we meet that, there needs to be a post -effect plan as to you, how the hell do we get out?

[1760] So do you think essentially what happens is the military industrial complex or the lobbyists or the special interest groups, do they make agreements with politicians?

[1761] Do they communicate with politicians and tell them what their goals are and here's what we're going to help you?

[1762] This is what we want you to do?

[1763] Like, how do they get them all to agree on this?

[1764] I think that they have a very complex way of organizing and funding, think tanks, the way that people think about war, the way they think about stability.

[1765] I think that they have access, right?

[1766] So when you have access and most of these companies, if you go to D .C., you know, drive around and look at what companies are inside the Beltway.

[1767] look at what companies are are publicly traded um publicly traded large companies within this this type of industry and they have access and their entire monetization strategy and how they make money is requires war so how they continue to grow their company and profit directly is related to how much war is being conducted.

[1768] So if they have close relationships with all of the politicians within D .C., when their entire monetization strategy is built on increased war, do you think they're working for the taxpayer or kind of withdrawal troops?

[1769] When I say that, it's like, it's directly contradictory to what I think the majority of the public would like to see.

[1770] I think the majority of the public would like to see a decreased footprint, decreased war, especially large -scale occupational wars, and they don't financially benefit from that.

[1771] It's contradictory.

[1772] Wouldn't you like to hear Trump talk about this?

[1773] Oh, my gosh.

[1774] I would love for any politician to keep talking about this.

[1775] But it seems like he's at least the only president in our recent lifetime that's actually brought up the fact the military industrial complex is actually influencing these decisions.

[1776] I would love to have any politician, and especially Trump or the president talk about the military industrial complex and how affected D .C. politics is and how effective we are in the DOD as a nation in funding overseas wars.

[1777] And say what you want to say that as far as the pro -Trump, anti -Trump.

[1778] But, you know, a lot of the left, they continue to kind of parade around about what, all the great things that Obama did, he increased our war capacity overseas.

[1779] He didn't decrease it.

[1780] Did he shut down Gitbo?

[1781] Did he do any of these things that he said that he was going to do?

[1782] For a group of people that claim that they're so anti -war, the one thing that they should be saying, gosh, this guy might have a point.

[1783] We might want to decrease our footprint overseas.

[1784] They don't.

[1785] But to contradict what we were saying earlier, the benefit of Trump was that he added funding to the military.

[1786] He gave them the green light.

[1787] You let him off their leash.

[1788] Like, where do you draw the line?

[1789] I think it's a more cost -effective way, too.

[1790] So if you have minimum success criteria, for instance, in the case of ISIS in Iraq, you have success criteria that are clearly laid out, which is defeat and destroy ISIS and eliminate any stronghold, essentially any occupied land that they have.

[1791] You go to work and you take it all away from them.

[1792] And then you're done.

[1793] You leave.

[1794] That's what you do.

[1795] And that's what they did, essentially.

[1796] And now, granted, we still have forces in Iraq, but not to the degree that we did when we were increasing to push ISIS out.

[1797] So with success criteria and ultimately clearly defined goals and objectives, directly associated to any war, that is an absolute expectation that we should have for any politician voting, yes.

[1798] and we should hold our politicians accountable for strict adherence to the success criteria of any war.

[1799] The problem is, is they keep changing every two to four years.

[1800] They keep changing the success criteria.

[1801] Well, that's endless war, and he's right about that.

[1802] These guys want endless war, and both sides.

[1803] So both sides want it, Democrats and Republicans.

[1804] Why?

[1805] Why do we want endless war in these places?

[1806] That doesn't make sense to me. It really doesn't.

[1807] And the only thing that makes sense to me in this, in this capacity, is that these guys all have a direct benefit or they're all being persuaded by the same organizations to keep the troops and keep the transference of wealth from the taxpayer into the military industrial complex.

[1808] That's fucking terrifying.

[1809] Absolutely it is.

[1810] It is absolutely terrifying.

[1811] And we, as a nation, should be, we should be having that conversation.

[1812] That's the conversation that I want us to have as a nation versus the conversation that we're having about, you know, like crazy shit.

[1813] Yeah.

[1814] Like crazy, unimportant shit that's really, it's honestly boring.

[1815] And I think it's a distraction and a side show to what's really happening.

[1816] But it's just crazy that you're not hearing this conversation anywhere.

[1817] Like this conversation is happening on this podcast and it's reach a million.

[1818] of people.

[1819] But why is this unique?

[1820] That's what's nuts.

[1821] What's nuts is that this isn't on CBS or NBC or vice or any of these places.

[1822] This is not in this long form.

[1823] You're not getting this conversation.

[1824] You're not getting to get spelled out the way you just spelled it out.

[1825] No, and I think that there's a...

[1826] Maybe Vice.

[1827] Maybe Vice has had some pieces that I missed.

[1828] I'm sure they have.

[1829] And I'm sure there are a lot of people that would love to debate me over what's actually happening.

[1830] You'd be hard -pressed to find people that with two guys sitting across the table that have more experience, specifically in these countries, working in these countries.

[1831] I have seven and a half years in Iraq and Afghanistan in my life, seven and a half years in both military and as an agency contractor.

[1832] And when I look at what we do in those, in those, in those countries, and I'm not thinking about it in theory, right?

[1833] I'm not thinking about it in theory.

[1834] I'm looking at it saying, this is what I saw, this is my first -hand experience, and this is what I've kind of looked and being able to reflect on it for the last five, six years since I left the military and the government.

[1835] I've been able to reflect on it and really ask a lot of complex questions as to why do we keep doing the same thing over and over and over again?

[1836] And it's frustrating because I understand what it takes to stabilize these countries.

[1837] I see it.

[1838] And I also understand what doesn't work.

[1839] And we're doing a lot of shit that doesn't work.

[1840] Well, and the hard part with that I think is there's been such a diversion away from the wars that no one's actively thinking about how many U .S. soldiers, men and women, the military, are currently deployed.

[1841] There's so much going on in the nation that that conversation is not even happening.

[1842] I'd venture to say most people like, oh, we still got people in Afghanistan, and they're going out on missions and stuff.

[1843] And it's, yeah, it's like an injustice to not have those conversations about what's the end goal.

[1844] What is the success criteria for Afghanistan?

[1845] Because I'm sure they want to go out and do their job and they're willing to risk their lives for it.

[1846] But what's the job?

[1847] And you don't really see any of that coming out of what that mission, what the end goal looks like.

[1848] And if there is an end goal, why are we there kind of thing?

[1849] And I haven't heard it, like, even from friends that are on the ground.

[1850] I'm like, they have a, they have our.

[1851] international strategic counterterrorist objectives, which is a nice sanctuary for any terrorist organization, and I'm sure that we could pull it up.

[1852] But at the end of the day, we're occupying a foreign country with our military.

[1853] We should be talking about this on a national level as to what are our goals, what are our objectives, what are our success criteria, and when the fuck do we get out of this place?

[1854] Like, we should be having that conversation on a regular cycle, because guys are still dying.

[1855] You know, we're still spending a lot of money and we're still spending a lot of our time and lives with the men and women that serve our country.

[1856] These people are still getting wounded and killed in places like Afghanistan, and we're not having a national complex conversation about it, and it's crazy to me. It seems certifiable.

[1857] Like, as a country, it's like, man, you guys are crazy.

[1858] You need to have this conversation.

[1859] It almost seems like it's too uncomfortable for people to discuss and particularly because it's going on for so long since it's happened since 2001 it's so long it almost seems like people just it's too much they don't why is this I don't know they just keep moving you know it almost seems like that and then obviously someone's taking advantage of that and profiting off of it it's a hard conversation you're going to have kids that are going to Afghanistan that were from the from the first wave of soldiers that were fighting Afghanistan, you're having children, their children.

[1860] They were born after September 11th, and now they're there.

[1861] Now they're there.

[1862] To me, as a guy that's served in both of those countries, and to me, as a guy that loves our country, we really need to have that national conversation with everybody and say, is this a generational war, everyone?

[1863] Is this something we really want to continue to pay for with our blood and our treasure?

[1864] is this something we really want to do?

[1865] And I think, obviously, you know, I'm biased, but I think these are the important issues that we should be discussing, right?

[1866] So how much more do we really have the patience for, not necessarily the patients, but how much war is really acceptable?

[1867] And how do we elevate and have these complex conversations without the interference of people that ultimately profit from war, too, which is, I think that's the conversation.

[1868] We have to take that out and have this as a society and they don't want to have it.

[1869] The interference of people who profit from war, and that is something that's happening, and it's happening behind closed doors.

[1870] It's not happening in a transparent way.

[1871] We can clearly see where the decisions are being made.

[1872] It's happening by the influence of the politicians that are being influenced behind closed doors.

[1873] Absolutely.

[1874] And if they're being influenced behind closed doors, they're also being influenced overtly through, I would say they're overtly being influenced by, you know, think tanks and, you know, studies that are funded by, you know, large institutions that are geared to profit from this.

[1875] So instead of the government spending its time really investigating and looking at complex war plans and how we pull out of these places, you know we're we're trying to figure out you know how we can change memos so we don't offend anybody it's fucking crazy yeah it's crazy i never expected this conversation to go down this road but uh makes sense yeah i mean i didn't either actually we started no i didn't either i was just chilling here and i was like i'm just going to listen for the next fucking 20 minutes We started talking about coffee and eating the right foods and fuck.

[1876] No shit.

[1877] That's the beauty of podcasts, right?

[1878] Yeah, that's crazy.

[1879] When you just get a chance to talk.

[1880] Let's wrap it up with that.

[1881] I mean, is there anything else you could say to be?

[1882] Is there anything people can do about this?

[1883] Is there anything that you think people should be aware of that they're not other than what you just said?

[1884] I think, you know, honestly, I don't know.

[1885] I don't want to be a defeatist.

[1886] I think that it's one of those things.

[1887] you've talked a lot about it in your podcast.

[1888] I think the expectation for us to expect more out of our politicians, I think in sourcing different types of information from a wide variety of people, I think for us, this is white noise, right?

[1889] When you look at all the white noise issues that are out there, we have big issues, you know?

[1890] We have big issues.

[1891] How the fuck do we get off this rock if there's a bigger rock coming towards us?

[1892] That's a big one.

[1893] Holy shit.

[1894] Do you think we should might figure that one out?

[1895] I don't know.

[1896] But these are complex conversations that I think we should hold our leaders accountable for sticking to the hard problems and having those conversations versus these ridiculous sideshow white noise conversations that ultimately are just a distraction from what we as a nation should be making our government do for us.

[1897] It's just such a complex.

[1898] wave such a complex web rather so there's just so much there's so much to think of it's almost impossible for a human being to look at the whole picture from from above and see all these different factors that are playing against each other oh absolutely i think we're it's mind -numbing when you start to critically think about one thing and then yeah the bajillion things that are going on in society it's well that's how they need good leaders right yeah And good leaders who are not financially motivated, which is almost impossible.

[1899] Possible.

[1900] That's the thing.

[1901] It's like getting the money out of politics.

[1902] Because if they look at this and they go, well, it's futile already.

[1903] Might as well just profit from it.

[1904] Right.

[1905] Well, that's the worst thing ever is when politics stopped becoming a service to your country, it became political gain and monetary gain because you can get paid.

[1906] But when you find out that politicians, that they make $100 ,000 a year, but they're worth $100 million.

[1907] Yeah.

[1908] How?

[1909] How?

[1910] How?

[1911] How is that possible?

[1912] Yeah.

[1913] And everybody's like, no one?

[1914] Nobody, no one says, hey, get in front of us and tell us exactly where you got that money.

[1915] Break it down.

[1916] Tell us, why is your husband worth this much or why is your wife worth this much?

[1917] I understand you're only worth that much, but your wife's worth $50 million.

[1918] And your kids are all worth $50 million apiece or whatever it is.

[1919] How does that happen?

[1920] Yeah.

[1921] And why is, like, why aren't we just, like, whistling and, like, looking around and pretending this stuff doesn't exist?

[1922] What a noble cause.

[1923] He works for $100 ,000.

[1924] and you're like, he paid $1 .3 million in his tax filings.

[1925] What the fuck's going on here, man?

[1926] What the fuck is going on?

[1927] Man, thank you.

[1928] Thank you a lot.

[1929] I really appreciate it.

[1930] Thanks for everything, man. Thanks for the way you guys run your company.

[1931] Thanks for the ethics and just the way you guys carry yourselves.

[1932] I appreciate you guys very much.

[1933] Thank you.

[1934] Appreciate the opportunity.

[1935] That's awesome.

[1936] All right.

[1937] Bye, everybody.