JRE MMA Show #113 with Chad Mendes

[0] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

[1] The Joe Rogan Experience.

[2] Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[3] All right, we're up from money.

[4] Money, Mendoz.

[5] What's up?

[6] Good to see, brother.

[7] Finally, man, we've been talking about doing this a long time.

[8] Too long, bro.

[9] Whoa.

[10] Look at that, Jamie.

[11] We splattered.

[12] I tried to push the plunger down on the French press, and it splattered everywhere.

[13] So if my microphone explodes, we know why.

[14] sorry this table needed a little seasoning needed some color let throw one over here i'll get this that's all right so uh what's happening man how you doing how's the retirement life oh man retirement from fighting but not but maybe not really no man i'm actually more busy now not fighting i'm actually uh want to get back into the training part of it so it can slow down a little bit but it's been good dude it's uh we got a ton of stuff going on a lot of stuff on the plate my wife's about to kill me but we got some shit going what you're working too much too much man way too much but it's good man I you know after fighting I had to channel that like that energy of getting shit going and and being successful somewhere I almost felt like I jumped into a little bit of a depression there for like a couple weeks after because I had like no sense of doing you know right and so I was like fuck it, I'm going to start just trying to grow a couple brands and building a couple companies and see what happens.

[15] So I was like honed all my energy onto that stuff and it definitely took over.

[16] So it's been nice.

[17] It's been fun being able to just basically channel that stuff into that and let it rip.

[18] It's one of the most difficult things for a fighter is the stopping fighting, but you don't know what to do with all this intense energy that you've been focusing your whole life in one way and now all of a sudden and for a lot of fighters it's like their whole identity right it is man like i i started wrestling when i was five years old like i wrestled from five years old every single year up and through college and then the day after graduation drove up the favors fucking lived in his uh i lived in his spare room and started training trained for three months and have my first pro fight and then just basically went up never stopped and so it's like when you have that identity of an athlete and then that's like your routine that's what you do like when i stopped i was just like dude what am i doing like what do i do with my life and how old do you now at 36 i just turned 36 in may so you're still in this like athletic zone where you're still you know until you're in once you're around 40 people start going man yeah time to do something else but 36 it's like man Anderson was in his prime at 36 yeah I was gonna say unless you're Dan Hindo right even Couture but those are freaks those real Couture didn't even start his career I think until it was 35 yeah I want to say he might have been it was 34 or 35 with his first UFC fight yeah it's crazy let's find out what that is find out it's like 1997 I was there for it that was the tournament and it was uh it was the same weekend that Tito Ortiz had his first fight Guy Metzger had his first fight um like Tito beat Wes Albright I don't know how I remember that and then he fought Guy and Guy tapped him out guy caught him in a guillotine yep I remember watching those yeah I remember going to um uh Blockbuster Do you remember Blockbuster?

[19] Sure.

[20] Me and my brothers were right over there on our bikes, and I'd go straight to the section that had all the VHS for the UFC events.

[21] Right next to like faces of death.

[22] Oh, yeah.

[23] We'd grab as me as we could, take them home and sit there and just watch them for hours.

[24] I remember.

[25] I believe it was UFC 2 was the only one that was available.

[26] I believe you couldn't get UFC 1 on VHS for a while.

[27] Because I think Horry and Gracie owned it or something.

[28] I don't know about that.

[29] Yeah.

[30] He would have been, like, turning 34 that year.

[31] A couple months, like a month after.

[32] That's crazy, man. Yeah, 34 starting his career and goes on to become the light heavyweight and the heavyweight champion.

[33] One of the best in the world, yeah.

[34] One of the best ever.

[35] And then fights, like, well, for more than 10 years.

[36] So this is 97.

[37] When did he retire from the UFC?

[38] I thought he was, like, 43 or 40?

[39] Man, I mean, he fought Leota Machita.

[40] He was, like, he was deep in his 40.

[41] Mm -hmm.

[42] Or in his 40s.

[43] He wouldn't have been closer to 50.

[44] What'd he have been?

[45] Well, when did he fight Leo to Machita?

[46] No, I can't.

[47] April 30 in 2011.

[48] Wow.

[49] That's crazy.

[50] 14 years.

[51] So, yeah.

[52] I can tell you I'm not fighting that long.

[53] So he's 48.

[54] He was 48.

[55] Yeah.

[56] That's 48.

[57] That's what I thought he was almost 50.

[58] Yeah, that's wild.

[59] That's crazy.

[60] Yeah.

[61] That's super rare, though.

[62] Super rare.

[63] You know, like Bernard Hopkins was the only other guy that fought, like, at a world -class level into his 50s.

[64] Bernard was, like, at 50.

[65] That's insane.

[66] Yeah.

[67] I mean, I hope that I feel that good to be able to compete when I'm 50, but I'll tell you what, I do a lot of hunting and fishing stuff with Hindo.

[68] Mm -hmm.

[69] And that guy's like...

[70] Yeah, he's like a robot.

[71] He barely can move.

[72] Like, Dan, and he's like, huh?

[73] No, is he feel all right?

[74] You talk to him?

[75] Oh, yeah.

[76] Like, he's still spars.

[77] He tells me he still spars.

[78] Does it really?

[79] Yeah, I'm like, dude, Dan, you're insane.

[80] Why is this bar?

[81] It's a good workout.

[82] I'm like, Dan, I could give you like 50 other things you can do that's a good workout that you don't have to spar get punched in the head.

[83] He's so stiff.

[84] It's like, is he stiff because he's just stiff or is he in pain?

[85] I think he's just stiff.

[86] Even if he's in pain, he would never tell you.

[87] No, that was the thing.

[88] He's got cauliflower hands.

[89] I like look at his hands sometimes and I'll just grab them and I'm like, dude.

[90] And they just feel hard, like, harder than most people's bones like in their hands.

[91] Well, all of Dan's body feels weird.

[92] Like, when you put your hand on his back, it's like mahogany.

[93] Yeah.

[94] It's like, like, what are you fucking made out of oak?

[95] It's just petrified wood.

[96] Yeah, he's not, he doesn't feel like a regular person.

[97] I talked to the lady that massaged him, she goes, I have never met someone more dent.

[98] Yeah, he is dense.

[99] He's crazy.

[100] Well, that's where he got all that power, too.

[101] You know, I mean, his whole body is just fucking.

[102] Yeah, he's a odd dude.

[103] He is.

[104] I love him.

[105] He's amazing, amazing person.

[106] I mean, you've got to realize this guy.

[107] competed as a heavyweight and knocked out Fador Remember that That was when Fader was still Fador This is like Fador's still fighting right But this was like more than 10 years ago This isn't a strike force Yeah crazy Yeah we sat and watched a bunch of those Highlights from a lot of those fights We were over at my buddy Chad Belding's house And we were doing some filming and stuff And we just sat down and everybody just kind of quit what they're doing And just watched that dude just K -O dude after dude and it's everybody's like man dan because like a lot of the girls that work there and stuff that help us they don't i don't think they really understand who dan henderson is right and they're just watching this stuff on tv and they're like jesus dan's just like uh -huh you know it's like i love the guy to death he's he's quite a character he's quite a character and a real pioneer i was there for his first fight too yeah yeah that was uh i think his first fight was versus Alan Goez.

[108] If that wasn't his first fight, I mean in the UFC, it was one of the first fights.

[109] And I think he was in like a tournament with Alan Goez.

[110] Yeah, I remember him talking about that.

[111] I mean, I missed it.

[112] I didn't see it.

[113] But he told me, if I remember right, um, he beat, he beat someone.

[114] Carlos Gooden, the crowd got really upset by the call.

[115] And there was people storm in the cage or the ring.

[116] I think that was the Alan.

[117] I think that was Colin Goa's fight.

[118] Yeah.

[119] People were pissed.

[120] Yeah.

[121] Yeah, that was a, I don't remember the fight enough to comment on the decision, but I think some people were pissed at it.

[122] But, you know, that's one thing that's never changed, shitty decisions.

[123] I mean, they still exist.

[124] You know, Francis Ngano had a very good point the other day that there should be some protection for fighters because, you know, losing half of your purse because someone made a bad call, there should be a way around that.

[125] That's funny you say that because I, years ago.

[126] was talking with a buddy of mine and we were thinking of like an insurance plan for fighters just for that reason right there.

[127] For injuries, like say you're, because this is the shitty thing that I don't, I mean a lot of people probably know this, but you go through a 10 week training camp and this has happened to me multiple times in my fight and some fights where the week before the fight your opponent gets injured.

[128] They back out.

[129] They can't find anybody to fill in and now your fight doesn't happen.

[130] Well guess what?

[131] You just went through all that training paying your trainers, you know, You still got to pay managers and everything for everything they do work -wise.

[132] You don't get paid.

[133] Yeah.

[134] So you're just like, damn it, man. And for some fighters, if you get injured after that, you're talking, I mean, what if you tear an ACL after that?

[135] Then you're a year and a half out.

[136] Like, oh, Jesus Christ.

[137] Yeah.

[138] Yeah, it's a hard world.

[139] It's a hard world.

[140] I wish somebody would come up with out on the capacity now to do it.

[141] But I think it would be a smart business move, and it would be cool for fighters to have, for sure.

[142] Well, you know, there was a lot of uproar this weekend because of, of who's the gal that was in the co -mate event who won, and then she got the $50 ,000 win bonus?

[143] I saw the videos.

[144] See if she pulled up her name.

[145] And people were really mad at the UFC because of her reaction because it changed her life.

[146] And go ahead.

[147] Was this the same girl that I saw started a GoFundMe page or something?

[148] Did she?

[149] I remember seeing there was a female fighter that started a GoFundMe page.

[150] I don't know.

[151] And it could be her, I don't know.

[152] But I did see the video of her where she, She's, like, taking a drink of her Coke and then just, like, hits the ground.

[153] Yeah, that's it.

[154] Yeah.

[155] So, go back up?

[156] Good.

[157] So, yeah.

[158] Cheyenne buys banks a bonus for UFC 33 co -main event finish.

[159] So it was a beautiful finish.

[160] She caught the girl with a head kick and then finished her off.

[161] It was pretty awesome.

[162] But afterwards, they were talking about fighter pay, you know, and she was crying.

[163] And then all these people got online, and they started.

[164] complaining about the UFC and I see I see everybody's point I see their point and I also see the UFC's point because a lot of people don't know who she is yet I mean they know who she is more now but the whole thing about this sport is how many people are going to watch you fight that's really what it is how exciting are you how entertaining are you how engaging are you your personality and do you put asses in the seats I mean it's clear now you know who puts asses in the seats and those are the people that get the most money yep and it's um it's it's a complicated thing for people you know because they think well the best fighter should make the most money and you go yeah but the best fighter doesn't put the most asses in the seats and that's what this game is all about it's a weird sport right it's like yeah it's pries fighting but it's also entertainment yeah and it's i mean it is tough for a lot of guys you because bottom line you know you could be the best in the world i mean i hate using this as an example because i love the guy demetrius johnson in my opinion was one of the best ufc fighters to ever stand in there of all time but it's like not the best he for whatever reason and it's probably because and i feel like i'm kind of the same way we're not shit talkers we're not guys that cause that drama and make things dramatic.

[165] We just want to get in there compete and kick someone's ass and go have some fun doing other things that we enjoy.

[166] And I don't think he moved the needle at all, you know, and people were saying that.

[167] So he was also 125 pounds.

[168] Exactly.

[169] And I think that's another issue too.

[170] It's a big issue, but it's, you know, it's something.

[171] People want to see these big guys just go in there and KO people, bottom line.

[172] Yeah.

[173] Isn't it interesting because 135 is really popular it's only 10 pounds I know it's kind of crazy yeah I don't I don't understand it but it's it's weird it's like you can't be the smallest you can be the second smallest and everybody's like all right I'm all in with these band and weights like that fucking Tj Dillshaw Sanhagen fight from last weekend was amazing amazing what a fight come to our tuna show our fins and feathers tuna trip and we knew it was a 50 50 chance that you know whether he had broken hands or something that he wouldn't be able to come but his knees mangled, right?

[174] Oh, yeah.

[175] He had to have surgery.

[176] Did he have the surgery?

[177] I think he already had surgery, yeah.

[178] How bad is it?

[179] I don't, I think he said it's a three -month recovery, but that's it?

[180] Yeah, I don't even know if I should be saying all this on here.

[181] Sorry, TJ, but I don't know if you want this out or not, but yeah, I know he was, he was pretty mangled up from it.

[182] He was crutches.

[183] It looked like it was the heel hook, if I had a guess.

[184] Like a lot of people were saying he wrenched it on the way out, but there's a moment where Sanhagen catching him.

[185] him in a heel hook and he's yanking on it and the way i'm looking at i'm like man that could rip your shit apart yeah he didn't tell me what it was from he just showed me photos of his knee was just huge his knee his ankle yeah probably barely knew yeah probably barely knew if his ankle was fucked too that even lends more credibility to the possibility it could have been opposite sides too i have to look at photos but i do know i talked to tj like a week before the fight and he was like man this is probably the most injured i've ever been going into a fight but he's like fuck And TJ's just a tough son of a bitch He's a tough motherfucker Yeah, he's a tough son of yourself People give him a lot of shit for that EPO thing And he deserves it And he'll tell you he deserves it But look, that motherfucker was dying Making 125, like literally dying I've never seen anybody look worse Walking around Like when they were filming him Not even the day he was making weight But like up to the day Of making weight, he looked like a fucking skeleton Yeah I'm so against big weight cuts man Yeah I fucking hate him Did I, you know, I cut tons of weight throughout college for wrestling, and, you know, my senior year, I finally just put my foot down and was like, look, I'm going up two weight classes.

[186] I'm not cutting to 125s anymore.

[187] Wow.

[188] I used to cut to 125s, and I was making weight two times a week, you know, wrestling.

[189] And I went up to 141s and was undefeated the entire year.

[190] My only loss came in the NCAA finals.

[191] It's the best I had ever felt.

[192] And I'm like, dude, why did I not do that my whole life?

[193] It's like, you're doing this.

[194] I'm fully against weight cutting in MMA, period.

[195] And you could probably apply it to all combat sports because I think what it is, even though there's no disrespect to anybody does it, but I think it's sanctioned cheating.

[196] I really do.

[197] Because if you're saying you're the, like, let's say, Kamaro Usman is the 170 -pound champion, Kamaro Usman weighs 170 pounds for about 20 minutes.

[198] Yeah.

[199] I mean, that guy's massive.

[200] You know, he's a solid 200 or close to it.

[201] He's a thick fella, you know?

[202] He's not really 170 pounds, and that's no fault of his own.

[203] Everybody he fights is the same way, whether it's Mazvedal or, you know, all of them.

[204] Everybody he fights.

[205] They're all big people.

[206] Tyrone was a giant guy at 170.

[207] He was never really 170 either.

[208] But if they just fought at their weight class, like what they actually weigh, I think they would feel better, they'd perform better.

[209] I think you'd have a longer career.

[210] You'd probably have less injuries.

[211] More exciting fights.

[212] More exciting fights.

[213] You'd have more energy.

[214] You know, and I think the solution is the UFC needs more weight classes.

[215] I really believe that every 10 pounds is the way to go.

[216] I agree.

[217] And I was the same way, man. I would cut to 45s and I would put on about 20 pounds, 18 to 20 pounds.

[218] Yeah, you're looking thick right now, fella.

[219] He's looking about 180.

[220] What do you weigh?

[221] 70.

[222] Cut the shit.

[223] I'm 170.

[224] I'll bring a fucking scale out here right now.

[225] Let's do it.

[226] Look how thick you are.

[227] You look like a gorilla.

[228] I'm just trying to be like you, Joe.

[229] But you weighed 1 .45, man. How vicious was that cut for you?

[230] It was pretty brutal.

[231] I mean, I walked around, you know, when I was making weight consistently and training consistently, you know, two, sometimes even three times a day.

[232] Dude, I walked around like 168, 165 to 168, and I was cutting down to 45s.

[233] And how would you do it?

[234] How many pounds would you lose day of weighing?

[235] usually I would try to get down to about five the day of and I would cut all water weight five to six sometimes even so would you just really restrict your diet the week of yeah I mean I'd say probably I mean I ate pretty clean throughout um about three weeks out I really started cutting back on portion size and then look at you Jesus Christ son shredded lean shredded Yes Yeah, I haven't looked like that in a while, bro 2014 Well, the funny thing is that's what everybody likes They like to see people look like that But that shit ain't healthy Like that body bow their look Shit, yeah Those guys are dying Yeah, I would get my ass kicked If I fought right there Isn't it crazy though Because everybody thinks Guy looks amazing Because you can see his six -back So tired, right?

[236] See, that's different That's ready to go Day, yeah, I'm all full of water and...

[237] And ready to go.

[238] Yep, I'm ready to go.

[239] I got a full belly.

[240] How much of a hit do you think it takes off of your ability to perform, though?

[241] The fact do you do that 24 hours before.

[242] I notice it.

[243] Like, I almost wish that I would do this more through training camps when I was doing it, but try to do a mock cut and then try to fine tune exactly what to eat after.

[244] Because even my entire career, I mean, I would try to have the same things that I would eat, but, you know, you don't always feel...

[245] 100 % the next.

[246] I don't think I ever felt 100 % for any fight.

[247] You know, you cut that much weight.

[248] You feel good, but when you get in there and it's like, I could go through 10 rounds of 10, 5 -minute rounds and be just relentless in training, being able to eat and be hydrated.

[249] And then you get in there and obviously nerves play a big factor too, but, you know, three rounds, you're already like, fuck, man, I feel this, you know?

[250] And I don't know if that's from dehydrating so much.

[251] My body's just not back to full.

[252] It has to have an effect.

[253] Yeah, I think it does.

[254] It has to.

[255] It just has to.

[256] You know, I mean, it's just not good for you.

[257] And it's so counterproductive.

[258] It's counterintuitive, like 24 hours before, literally one of the most dangerous things in all of sports.

[259] A cage fight.

[260] You're going to dehydrate yourself literally to the point of death.

[261] Yeah.

[262] Dude, my Frankie fight, I think I messed up big time.

[263] I was using, God, I can't remember his name.

[264] It was a dietitian, which I'd never used.

[265] used any through any of my fights before that you never used any like dolce or any of those guys i never did like i asked them for some advice here and there from time to time but god i can't remember this dude it's lockhart lockhart yep and used those guys and it was a whole system and there was like natural diuretics that you use and you know i'd never done any of that and i just think it dehydrated my head too much or something really i mean if you watch the fight frankie like barely clipped my nose and it was just like lights out wow you know i've been hit fucking bit hit by aldo harder than that and just like bounce back you know and it's like i don't know it's just one of those things like i never did that after well a lot of people like when they make a cut like aldo's a good example right like aldo was the king at 45 forever now he's figured out how to get to 35 and he looks fucking great it looks great at 35 but he had to figure it out he had to dial it in and he had to do it several times until he really got it down.

[266] And I think he, too, he's lost a lot of muscle mass. You have to.

[267] Like, when I cut the 25s, like, I just had, you got to do a lot of fasting, like fasted cardio, fasted workouts to where your body's basically eating your muscle.

[268] You know, you feel like shit when it's happening, but you're shrinking up.

[269] And then once you get to that point where you, you know, where you want to be, your body kind of adjusts and gets used to it.

[270] And now that's your size, you know?

[271] Yeah, when Cam was racing, when he was running, The Moab 240, I forget what the exact calorie count was.

[272] But what he did was, like, let's say, burn 3 ,000 calories, 8, 2 ,500 calories.

[273] And I was like, fuck.

[274] Just hearing that made me tired.

[275] Dude, that's what he did.

[276] He's a beast, man. That guy's such a beast.

[277] He's got discipline on top of discipline.

[278] It's a wild thing to see.

[279] I wish I could find that mindset that Cam has.

[280] Like, where do you find that?

[281] I don't think you can, but...

[282] Well, I mean, he's sort of cultivated it over his life, you know, and he's just made it more and more focused as he's gotten older and older and gotten used to the grind, and it's become just a natural part of his life.

[283] But it's, what's fascinating is it's self -imposed.

[284] You know, it's very few people have that kind of discipline.

[285] But the only ones I know of like him or like him and Goggins.

[286] And the difference between him is he has a full -time job, which is really crazy.

[287] It's nuts.

[288] full -time nine to five job and still has time to do all that other shit and then he'll go run a marathon yeah yeah he'll run a marathon a day a day while he's yeah they tell you if you run a marathon he's supposed to take months off yeah yeah yeah okay yeah I'm just gonna do a day at one a day it's fucking crazy man I would I think I'd give up from the foot pain like I see his feet like going into those those big races I'm just like dude like I'm I'm doing some boxing train I get a blister on my toe and I'm like fuck oh man have you seen Goggins's feet oh dude there's a There's a photo of, you know, there's these memes going around when I sat down next to Connor, when Connor had a broken leg, and I was interviewing him.

[289] It was me interviewing, like, the 9 -11 tower.

[290] It's got me interviewing Goggins' feet.

[291] Have you seen it, Jamie?

[292] If you can't find it, I'll send it to you, Jamie, because Dave sent it to me, and it's just like, it's so disgusting.

[293] His feet are so gross.

[294] Have you seen it?

[295] I mean, I know the feet picture, but.

[296] Here, I'll find it for you.

[297] It's so ridiculous.

[298] All those memes were hilarious.

[299] It's so funny.

[300] Yeah.

[301] Here, I'm going to send it to you, Jamie.

[302] Yeah, the internet wins, always.

[303] Always undefeated.

[304] Yeah, Jamie.

[305] It's, but these feet, this is what happens when you run the kind of miles that Gagons runs.

[306] I mean, they're so disgusting.

[307] They're so destroyed.

[308] And he keeps running on them.

[309] That's the thing.

[310] It's like, look at that.

[311] Oh, God.

[312] Look at those toes.

[313] Dude, no. Look, it's big toast.

[314] They look like they're about.

[315] to fall off yeah well their nails are gone there's no nails oh man they're cracked and destroyed he's still a crazy long toe fingers too right yeah look how long his toes are it's almost like he's got another toe coming out of the one you're interviewing but they're like fingers look how long they are yeah dude that dude put some miles on those fucking feet man that is it's unbelievable yeah yeah well he does it too like he was doing it with like some pretty serious meniscus damage.

[316] My friend operated on him and cleaned up some of his meniscus and said his meniscus was hard like leather.

[317] He said, he's like never cut through meniscus like that before.

[318] That's insane.

[319] He's got to get a saw to cut through it.

[320] He said he bent the knife.

[321] No. Yeah, like legitimately.

[322] Dude, that's crazy.

[323] I mean, I guess those guys are just so mentally tough.

[324] It's like...

[325] He's hardening everything.

[326] Yeah.

[327] I don't care.

[328] I don't care.

[329] I don't care.

[330] I don't care.

[331] Yeah.

[332] It's crazy.

[333] I guess, you know, when you think about it, your body does adapt to a lot of shit.

[334] The problem is most people never push past the pain that it takes to adapt to something like that.

[335] I think that's key right there.

[336] Yeah.

[337] That's it.

[338] Did you do a lot of running when you're fighting?

[339] I did, but I did a lot of road biking.

[340] I liked riding, just kind of zoning out and just doing, you know, 40 miles, 50 miles.

[341] Better on your knees too, right?

[342] I think so, yeah, and my lower back.

[343] It's probably because I'm top heavy, but yeah, I noticed my lower back gets pretty sore like I rain last night and it's sore today but you know it's just those things that the aches and pains you got to push through you know yeah um do you want to talk about that thing that you might be doing yeah let's do it we got a big announcement it's it's it you just get you there you go like that so tell me what this what is this announcement what's going on so i just signed a big contract bro i'm coming back to fighting oh no yeah in the great words the t j dillishot daddy's home bitches But I'm not coming back to MMA, man. I know that I've been seeing a lot of people's comment and they're kind of hoping that I am.

[344] I'm coming back to boxing, man. I want to try something different.

[345] Now, you're coming back to regular boxing, or are you going to do bare knuckle boxing?

[346] I think we're going to throw some bare knuckle in there, bro.

[347] Just mix it up, get real crazy.

[348] Now, I've seen you, you're working out a lot.

[349] You're hitting a lot of Mets.

[350] Like, were you doing that before, or did you just have this, did they contact you?

[351] Like, how did this come about?

[352] So we've, I mean, this is actually something that's kind of been in the works for probably a year now.

[353] Really?

[354] You know, it's just for me, look, I just turned 36 in May, and we were just talking about still having that desire.

[355] Like when I left the UFC, I was just about to have my first baby.

[356] You know, I had a lot on my plate.

[357] There was, obviously, I had just lost, but even going into that fight, I had started a company, I was working on a few other companies, and there was a lot that I was more excited.

[358] excited about than competing at the time and I mean obviously we know that this sport is so brutal like you if you don't have a hundred percent mindset into it you're going to get fucked up you know and it's for me it was like look dude I'm going to take some time off I'm going to or just or just end it here I have other things going on and we'll see kind of what happens in the future so I decided to retire talked it over at the wife and that was you know what the game plan was so fast forward two and a half years later Um, you know, obviously I still have that desire.

[359] Um, and obviously my, my baby girl's bigger now.

[360] We are, uh, pregnant with a second.

[361] And, uh, I just started thinking like, man, I'm getting older.

[362] I don't want to get into my 40s and then basically still have this desire to compete and be like, it's too fucking late, you know.

[363] So I'm like, let's, let's start talking to some of these guys.

[364] I've always wanted to box, you know, coming off of wrestling.

[365] My, my style, even in the UFC was boxing and wrestling.

[366] and were probably my two favorite things to do.

[367] Like, I absolutely loved boxing sparring when I would be training through training camps and then obviously wrestling too.

[368] But I always wanted to try and compete in some type of boxing competition.

[369] And so Bear Knuckle actually reached out to Faber and was like, hey, do you think Mendes would ever be interested in this?

[370] And I'm like, I mean, I probably never thought about anything bare knuckle before, but, you know, boxing definitely would be fun.

[371] Let me ask you this about Bear Knuckle.

[372] Why do they have those, like, really thick wraps that go all around the hand but just expose the knuckle?

[373] Mm -hmm.

[374] And it's not mandatory on anybody.

[375] Like, I see some guys where they just tape their hand.

[376] Right.

[377] But I think a lot of people do that for wrist support.

[378] Right.

[379] Like, you know, obviously, you punched, like, a bag with no support in your wrist, and a lot of the times it folds.

[380] But didn't Joe Riggs get his eye cut because of one of the, when he fought Lombard?

[381] Didn't the rap actually scrape his eye?

[382] I heard that, yeah.

[383] And it's, you know, I think that this is an organization that's still very brand new, and there's probably still working all these kinks out.

[384] But, I mean, I'm probably going to tape the shit out of my wrist just for the reason of support.

[385] But, yeah, I think that's something that's, you know, it's definitely a possibility of getting cut on that stuff.

[386] Do you know when you're fighting?

[387] October 22nd.

[388] Oh, Jesus.

[389] It's coming up.

[390] October 22nd.

[391] Do you have an opponent?

[392] No opponent yet.

[393] Really?

[394] Chandler, Arizona is what's.

[395] they're saying.

[396] What weight?

[397] 155s.

[398] Okay, so you're not going to have to cut.

[399] No, that's what I told them.

[400] I said, look, dude, we had just talked about, I don't want to cut much anymore, you know, obviously I'm getting older.

[401] It's harder.

[402] It's going to be hard as hell to make 45s, but if I can go 55s, I would greatly appreciate that.

[403] And they're like, no, it's actually better.

[404] You're going to have more opponents to choose from.

[405] So I think that's what we're going to do.

[406] How many rounds?

[407] They're five, five, two -minute rounds, which I think is.

[408] Why are they doing two -minute rounds?

[409] I don't know why they're maybe just, I'm not sure exactly what their thought process on that, but I mean, I love that.

[410] I'm an explosive athlete, obviously.

[411] I think this, I'm pretty much built for this style of fighting.

[412] You know, I can get in there, I can be fast, explosive, quick, powerful, and, you know, it's a quick round.

[413] I don't have to, you know, pace myself, grind out those five -minute rounds.

[414] I can just get in there and knock someone's head off and be good.

[415] That's going to be a big difference for you, right?

[416] Going from five -minute rounds, two -minute rounds.

[417] Dude, I've been hit Mitz for two -minute rounds, and I'm like, I feel like I just started.

[418] Right, right.

[419] Like, I could go, you know, I feel good.

[420] Are you training two minutes, or are you doing longer so that you feel like two minutes is nothing?

[421] We're going to mix both in.

[422] And my thought process on that is, even when I was training for five -minute rounds, we do five -minute rounds.

[423] I don't, we would do more of them, but I want my body, my mind to get used to exactly what it's going to feel like.

[424] because of that reason, like, holy shit, it's already over.

[425] Right.

[426] You know?

[427] So I need to know, like, you know, basically where I'm at in the round, you know, and I want to get used to that.

[428] But I'm definitely going to do some longer stuff too, or we'll do, you know, like 10, two -minute rounds.

[429] So you're basically just doing more of the exact same thing.

[430] So where it's, you know, you hit those five and it's like, shit, I could go another full fight here.

[431] So how long did you have to think about this before you decided to do it?

[432] Well, like I said, it's been a whole year process, kind of going back and forth.

[433] my wife absolutely hates it.

[434] She's like, you're fucking nuts, but, you know.

[435] She married a fighter.

[436] I know, and that's what she's got to remember that, right?

[437] But, no, man, it's definitely something we sat down and had to figure out because it's, you know, it is something that's pretty brutal.

[438] And my argument to her was this.

[439] Like, a UFC glove, maybe a quarter of an inch of leather, half inch of leather over my knuckles, I mean, the concussion is not going to be much different, if anything.

[440] I think we're obviously dealing with a sharper object hitting you.

[441] So cuts are probably going to be a lot more prevalent.

[442] But as far as the concussion of, you know, getting hit, you know, I don't think it's going to be much different.

[443] I also don't have to worry about a baseball bat head kick going whipping through and cracking me in the dome either or a big knee.

[444] Yeah.

[445] So, you know, there's a lot of other things in the MMA game that I think are a lot more dangerous.

[446] But, you know, for me, it's just it had to make sense, obviously, the numbers they were thrown out in the beginning didn't make sense for me. I have, you know, other businesses that are doing really well right now that are something that I can do for the rest of my life and not have to ever fight, but I have that itch to get in there compete still.

[447] And I might as well do it now while I'm still on my prime and I have that opportunity because, like I said, when I start hitting 38, You know, maybe these opportunities have come and gone and nobody even really cares to see me fight anymore.

[448] Or, you know, I just don't feel good enough to get in there and do it.

[449] So it's interesting how they're going after so many former UFC fighters.

[450] I mean, it's smart, right?

[451] These people are already famous.

[452] You know, they got Paige Van Zant, Hector Lombard.

[453] You now, who else is over there?

[454] I know Leonard Garcia.

[455] Who else?

[456] It's, uh, uh, Rochelle, uh, she just fought page, uh, Ostevich, Oshchevich, Rachel Ostevich.

[457] to them.

[458] And I know it's growing, right?

[459] I mean, it's, it's people are paying attention now.

[460] They're watching a lot of fights.

[461] Yeah.

[462] I know Forbes just did it right up saying it's the fastest growing combat sport in the world right now, you know.

[463] Well, I always thought that like it was weird that you could elbow somebody in the face.

[464] You could head kick somebody with a bear shin.

[465] You can knee them in the nose with no pads, but your hands are covered with a pad.

[466] I was, I was like, but I used to say, like why don't we just go bare knuckle because first of all to make grappling more realistic like submissions you could sink in chokes and stuff much easier but then i saw chris leban versus uh who is it dakota what's his name anyway chris leban's face got destroyed it was crazy the cuts and i was like oh maybe bare knuckles pretty fucked it is and i think that's you know you're going to have a lot of blood which probably makes it pretty entertaining for a lot of people but yeah cuts are definitely going to be there i mean like you said elbows though in the ufc like oh yeah up against the cage you get slashed up somebody or even off off their back and you're on top dropping elbows i mean those cut probably more than knuckles i would imagine but yeah um i think you get hit a lot more with punches than you do with elbows in a fight and that's probably where more more cuts would come in but how many of these things are going to have man so so here's situation.

[467] I'm still under UFC contract.

[468] I still have fights on my UFC contract.

[469] So, you know, there still is a possibility that I come back and maybe I want to do one or two more UFC fights after this.

[470] We'll see.

[471] I'm going to get in there and I'm going to.

[472] Is the UFC giving you a green light to do this?

[473] Is that how it works?

[474] Uh -huh.

[475] Interesting.

[476] Which is super cool to use.

[477] I mean, they basically could have just said fuck you.

[478] You're not competing anymore.

[479] Well, they kind of said fuck you to George St. Pierre when he wanted to fight Oscar de Aloha.

[480] Well, that's because it's Oscar.

[481] I know, but come on.

[482] That's a great payday for George.

[483] I know.

[484] I know.

[485] And in fact, some of that stuff was in the works for me. Like, we taught, I was, my name was stoned in there with Oscar.

[486] Really?

[487] Yeah.

[488] Which would have been freaking cool just to say you get in there and box a guy like Oscar.

[489] But, yeah, they wanted nothing to do with any of that stuff.

[490] So, you know, for them to let me go.

[491] It's Dana and Oscar do not get along.

[492] Yeah.

[493] What is the source of that, do you know?

[494] I don't know, but I always see them talking shit to each other.

[495] It's so dumb.

[496] Yeah.

[497] But.

[498] So dumb.

[499] Yeah.

[500] Like, you know.

[501] why?

[502] What is what's happening?

[503] I don't know but luckily the pay day I was talking about getting with them is what I'm getting in bare knuckle now and you know obviously it would have been cooler to say that I'm boxing Oscar de la Jolla but now I remember why Oscar de la Jolla had organization for a short period time where he had Tito fight chuck remember that and he was talking all kinds of shit about the UFC and talking all kinds of shit about fighter pay and then he's won and done and the organization falls.

[504] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[505] Understandable.

[506] That's why.

[507] They always do that, though.

[508] They always come for the UFC.

[509] When you're the UFC, it's like...

[510] That's got to be pretty cool for the UFC.

[511] Everyone's always trying to be the UFC or trying to create these MMA organizations that are trying to be on the level of the UFC.

[512] Nobody's ever going to do that, you know?

[513] Yeah.

[514] And it's, I mean, I get...

[515] If somebody was talking shit to me, I would be like, fuck you too.

[516] Like, if I was in Dana's...

[517] position you know but none of these guys are ever going to touch the ufc well the only one that's close is bellator yeah bellator has some real legit talent right now nemcoff um uh j mckee yeah he's a bad motherfucker dude the way he took out pit bull in that last fight dude that guy is legit legit 18 and o undefeated world champion you know mean come on man douglas lima world class michael Venom Page.

[518] They've got legit talent over there.

[519] They really do.

[520] Gaird Musassi.

[521] Yeah.

[522] No, I agree.

[523] And I think the talent's been like that for a while now.

[524] I mean, a lot of these guys have been there for a bit, but I guess my thing was it's, you know, you got so many people that are just like the UFC is the NFL, you know?

[525] And it's you know, we'll see.

[526] I don't know if it'll ever be as big as UFC, but I just you know.

[527] It is, it's it's odd that all of them have a name you know like none of them are just like boxing is just boxing right kickboxing is I guess kickboxing is the same because you have glory at K1 you had all these organizations but it's odd that no one just says like showtime MMA and then just has MMA on showtime like you know you know everything has to be like a bellator one FC there's always like some name the PFL there's always something yeah the PFL I try to follow the fights are great but your fucking score system sucks.

[528] Like, I'm like, what are you saying?

[529] Yeah.

[530] He's got points?

[531] What is this?

[532] He moves up the rankings.

[533] He's got 600 for that and 35 for this.

[534] The fuck are you doing, man?

[535] Just have fights.

[536] Yeah.

[537] Have you seen the, there actually was bare knuckle MMA that just started?

[538] I think that's, was that, was that?

[539] God, who was it?

[540] It was a UFC fighter that started that, I thought.

[541] I just saw, it was a full MMA fight, though, bare knuckle, or it's going to happen.

[542] Oh, I don't know about this at all.

[543] No?

[544] Yeah.

[545] No, I haven't heard this.

[546] Jamie?

[547] Mazvedo.

[548] Oh, that's right.

[549] Is it MMA?

[550] Yes.

[551] It's not boxing?

[552] Oh, I like it.

[553] I like it.

[554] I think it should be that way.

[555] I really do.

[556] People have a hard time with it because of the cuts and everything like that.

[557] And I agree with you that it's easier to cut somebody.

[558] But they think it's more barbaric.

[559] But come on, man. Think about when the UFC came out.

[560] Like, everybody thought of the UFC as barbaric.

[561] Like, my manager was kind of going over this with me. the other day and he's like I remember trying to get sponsors when the UFC was kind of first taken off and a lot of these companies were just like oh hell no like we can't be associated with that right and now it's you know it's the UFC MMA is like so accepted maybe this is going to be the next the next thing you know who knows could be yeah I mean Masvedal has a good chance of making it happen I've said for a long time they should have it on like a football field yeah like no no more cages because the cage is a big factor it's a big factor in the fight i mean if you can have basketball and you have it on this big ass court how can we can't have a fight on a big ass court yeah just pad the shit out of it you know make it so that uh there's like an area where you can't pass you know and you just chase each other down and beat the shit out of each other yeah don't you know don't let anybody run away you can't just run away you like you lose points for running away but lateral movement's good, footwork is good.

[562] Basically, there's no walls in here.

[563] So it's like you're just out in the open fight.

[564] Because think about like takedowns.

[565] Take downs occur so often up against the cage, right?

[566] I mean, it's a big part of the strategy of getting someone up against the cage is taking them down.

[567] And then people use the cage to get back up onto their feet.

[568] Think about how few takedowns you'd have, many less takedowns you'd have if you had no cage.

[569] And also how few people would get up.

[570] It's true.

[571] Get up less.

[572] It'd be more realistic because the cages is a factor.

[573] It is a factor.

[574] I guess in a street fight, most of the time you don't have a wall to climb up.

[575] Right, unless you're fighting in a mall.

[576] Yeah.

[577] It's, you know, it's a factor.

[578] And the more factors you can cut out that are extraneous, I think the better.

[579] I like it.

[580] We might have to push that forward.

[581] They did it in Russia, but they do everything in Russia.

[582] Dude, I saw like a team fight.

[583] Yep.

[584] You see it where, like, every, I don't understand the rules, but it's like, everybody's just going at it.

[585] Yeah, chaos.

[586] Yeah.

[587] One side wears red, one side wears blue, whatever, and they just beat the fuck out of each other.

[588] I saw a three -on -one fight the other day.

[589] It was ridiculous.

[590] Yeah, my...

[591] This is it.

[592] Yeah, three -on -once.

[593] But the problem is the fuck, the guy's the same size.

[594] Like, I've seen two -on -ones where the one guy was big.

[595] But these three guys that fought this one guy, look, they're all the same size.

[596] So this isn't even like team versus team.

[597] It's one dude versus...

[598] this three.

[599] Yeah, I just don't understand.

[600] This guy's seen too many Jackie Chan movies.

[601] They just bum -rush this boy.

[602] They threw him down and just started hammer -fisted him in the face.

[603] Look at this.

[604] Look how they did it.

[605] Oh my God.

[606] Like, how could you expect to win?

[607] It's so ridiculous.

[608] Like, did that guy actually expect to go in there and say like, oh, I'm going to beat three dudes up?

[609] The one guy just kind of held him down and then the other guys, the other two guys hammer -fisted them.

[610] Good job, bro.

[611] Thank you.

[612] Yeah, thanks for hammer -fisting the fuck out of my childhood.

[613] Now I can't think about the seventh grade anymore.

[614] Look at them.

[615] They're cheering.

[616] Yes, go get more.

[617] Brush is wild.

[618] They're nuts, man. They're willing.

[619] They're willing to try.

[620] Those fucking crazy people.

[621] I'm not interested in that.

[622] But I am interested in removing as many factors as possible.

[623] I like that.

[624] Yeah, I do.

[625] I mean, when I first started doing commentary in 97, people didn't have gloves except Vitor and Tank.

[626] And Scott Farozo.

[627] So, Scott Farozo had gloves, too.

[628] Most people had no gloves.

[629] Really?

[630] I guess I didn't know that.

[631] Yeah, when Vitor fought Trey Telegman, Trey Telegman was no gloves.

[632] He's like a little bit of tape on his hands, and that's it.

[633] So basically, that was the bare knuckle.

[634] Maybe Scott Farozo didn't even have gloves back then.

[635] See if you could find a video of Scott Farozo versus Vitor.

[636] I'm not sure if Scott had gloves.

[637] Dude, that's crazy.

[638] Yeah, Vitor was one of the first guys that had gloves on.

[639] and he just did it to protect his hands, you know?

[640] And that was back when you could wear shoes, too.

[641] A lot of guys wore shoes.

[642] Yeah, man, I think that's my biggest fear with doing this bare knuckles, breaking my hands.

[643] Vitor is 19.

[644] Look at that.

[645] Pit fighting.

[646] 19 years old.

[647] When I was 19.

[648] He was 205, and that was his actual weight, you know, because he didn't.

[649] Look at how thick he was.

[650] He's so thick.

[651] This is pre -Bruce Buffer, son.

[652] Look at that.

[653] Look at that.

[654] That was someone else doing the introductions.

[655] This was the first time that I was ever, was ever out of fight.

[656] I was doing the post -fight interviews.

[657] And this was the one in Dothin, Alabama.

[658] Were you just like, what the fuck?

[659] What the fuck?

[660] Yeah, man. I was, this was 97, and I couldn't believe I was even there.

[661] I was like, this is so wild.

[662] It was supposed to be in New York, but the New York band it.

[663] And then last minute, they had a backup plan.

[664] Bob Meyerowitz, who owned the UFC at the time, had a bat.

[665] Yeah, see, Scott's got gloves on too.

[666] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[667] So he had gloves on, and Vitor had gloves on, but Trey Telegman did not have gloves on.

[668] So they weren't mandatory.

[669] The guys could do it.

[670] So, Trey had, or, excuse me, Scott had already won one fight, and Vitor had won one fight.

[671] I saw that cut -up of his day.

[672] Yeah.

[673] God, look at Vitor.

[674] He was so fast, dude.

[675] And everybody thought that it was, look at that straight left, man. Boom.

[676] He was so fast.

[677] neon belly and just Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing.

[678] Lights out.

[679] Well, he was, he had legit jujitsu, you know, he was from Carlson Gracie lineage, and then the fastest hands you'd ever seen inside the octagon up to that point.

[680] That's a big dude.

[681] Oh, yeah.

[682] He's fighting.

[683] Look at that.

[684] Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[685] You thought the fight was still going on.

[686] And that was in Big John McCarthy was a house too, so he had to separate people.

[687] Big John.

[688] Look at Big John's a tank, too.

[689] Oh, yeah, he's a huge fella.

[690] And back then he was powerlifting.

[691] Mm -hmm.

[692] Ah, that's cool.

[693] But the funny thing is he would knock guys out and go, ju -jitsu, ju -jitsu.

[694] It's like, you just use your hands, bro.

[695] That was boxing, boxing.

[696] But when he fought Trey Telleckman, Trey Telligman was bare knuckle.

[697] It was, you could grab shorts back then, too.

[698] Like, I remember Waleed Ishmael was fighting somebody, and the dude was grabbing his shorts and giving him a full -on wedgey.

[699] Oh, yeah.

[700] Like, you could grab shorts.

[701] You could literally, like, hike him right up a dude's ass.

[702] Yeah.

[703] Like, there was a lot of crazy rules back then.

[704] I think he was still growing.

[705] groin strikes too huh uh yeah Joe son and Keith Hackney remember remember that Keith Hackney he just pounded him in the balls yeah it was the crazy days back then man crazy days guys wore geese and shit you know do you imagine just having a dude sit there just uppercut in your nuts the whole time is this uh the trade telegman fight yeah see if you watch telegman oh yeah he's uh he's got no gloves on if watch see look at that and shoes he had shoes on yeah that was from a childhood car accident was it yeah he had no peck yeah or some of his peck that was the early days of the lion's den remember that lion's den was the first you know like it was like lions den and then like militant fighting systems in the sort of the same era but they were the first mma teams the lions den had like these crazy initiation uh like tests that have put guys through really basically like you know just like try to break you mentally yeah they were well documented like incredible like physical conditioning drills and then sparring and just like try to break you i like to break you why don't we still have that today because they're trying to preserve athletes futures what do you think about guys that don't spar like when you hear guys don't spar i think it's weird man i i mean but like look at max holloway yeah when max holloway fought cater how good did he look really good and and Josh Emmett one of my teammates his last fight which is one of the best striking fights he's ever had didn't he did like very very light sparring move come I can't remember why but my my injury or something it could have been or that might just be the way that he's moving like he just doesn't want to spar hard anymore which I get especially the style of fighting that he has like he's like he's a He gets a brawler.

[706] Oh, my God.

[707] Like, when me and him go light sparring, both of us get our bells wrong.

[708] Like, both of us are just, like, bulls in a china shop trying to go.

[709] Like, neither one of us can go real light.

[710] It's tough.

[711] But, no, he said I just, I didn't spar hard.

[712] And I get it because, you know, obviously most of the damage that I ever took through any of my fights was through training camp.

[713] Really?

[714] Getting your bell rung multiple times or, you know, obviously that stuff adds up.

[715] up and it's not good.

[716] I remember when we first got to Team Alpha Mel, like it was like me, Benavides, Delishaw, Danny Castillo, Justin Buckels.

[717] Like we had all the UFC guys in there in favor, and we would just 16 ounce gloves, headgear, tape up, and just basically be trying to KO each other for the entire sparring session, you know?

[718] And I remember there was guys that would get knocked out like you know guys that would jump in and spar with us and you know would get knocked out i remember one of the guys went out and sat in his car and he sat he sat in the driver's seat for like 20 minutes and then didn't realize like he looked at his clock and he didn't realize he was there for that long like he was basically concussed like really out of it yeah yeah it was just like sitting there jesus christ it's not good man so we didn't know that i mean dwayne's actually the one that kind of calmed us down when he came into Team Alpha Mountain.

[719] I was like, what the hell are you guys doing?

[720] Yeah, let's get some structure to this, you know, and had drills and, you know, calmed us down, even in striking, like, let's go 30%, let's go 50%, you know.

[721] And, you know, you still get some asshole that's in there just like, yeah, ah.

[722] But, you know, he definitely kind of opened our eyes to the preserving of the brain type sparring, you know, and, and, It definitely helped.

[723] I think once we started doing that, everybody's technique got so much better.

[724] Well, Dwayne is a master of technique.

[725] I mean, he is one of those guys that emphasizes his technique.

[726] The technique is everything.

[727] What's so interesting to me about Dwayne's style of teaching is it's so much different than his style of fighting.

[728] It's like he realized something when he was done fighting.

[729] Like, you know what?

[730] I kind of know how to do this better.

[731] And like the switching of stances and all the faints and the fakes.

[732] But if you go back and watch his Muay career or Duane's MMA career I mean amazing fights but he doesn't fight like TJ no no at all but he taught TJ a better way to fight yeah isn't that crazy it is crazy like I remember him when he was at team off ML I think that was kind of the beginning of doing all that type of stuff and I don't know if he was just kind of like testing all this stuff out on us and then see what would take and then be like oh that works right and then keep going that direction and if you try something that doesn't then just kind of throw it away.

[733] But, dude, I remember, I mean, obviously you know Dwayne, but caffeine, notepad, and that guy would just sit there.

[734] I don't think that guy sleeps.

[735] I mean, he'll sit there all night, probably writing combos.

[736] He's obsessed.

[737] Oh, yeah.

[738] I love that, man. I love that.

[739] I love that about a coach that can go and do that.

[740] You know, it's, you have those very few coaches in your life that have that obsession, and you know that's something special.

[741] And Dwayne has that.

[742] Yeah, Mark Henry is another one of those guys.

[743] in Jiu -Jitsu, Donaher.

[744] Donher is another one of those guys.

[745] There's a few of those guys that have that absolute obsession with watching guys improve and figuring out what's the best technique.

[746] And also, like, Mark Henry's amazing because he develops combination specific to each individual fighter and then names them based on, like, their kids or their friends or where they grew up or, you know, for you.

[747] would probably be like the archery elk cunt or something.

[748] He would yell out some weird thing where nobody else would understand what the fuck you were saying and you would know what to do and he would change it with every camp.

[749] That's cool.

[750] Yeah, that's super cool.

[751] In the wrestling world, Sammy Henson was that guy for me. My senior year was, I mean, Sammy took me to that next level, you know, and he was one of those guys that was obsessed and he would like pull me aside.

[752] We'd have like separate one -on -one type sessions and, man, it really does make.

[753] all the difference in the world.

[754] It really does.

[755] Yeah, if you can find someone who's that obsessed as a coach, I mean, I talk to Gordon Ryan about it when it comes to John Donaheher, and he's like, there's no mistake.

[756] Like, the reason why I'm so good is not just because of his...

[757] Obviously, he's physically gifted, he's intelligent, he's super disciplined, super dedicated, but also he said, John Donaheur is like a cheat code.

[758] He's like, I have this crazy, obsessed jiu -jitsu coach who coaches seven days a week, 365 days a year, doesn't take any days off ever has no family has no girlfriend and then when he's done coaching watch his fights yeah that's special try finding one of those guys that's that's fucking special also a genius who was a professor at columbia yeah taught philosophy what yeah try finding one of those guys good luck yeah they don't exist there's one yeah you know and you know and you know and he's actually moving here is he's very exciting oh no way he's moving to austin oh you are you gonna be all over there oh man i can't wait can't wait to pick his brain yeah I mean, look like just, just even for my commentary game, I would for sure want to learn jujitsu from him, but just my commentary game will improve in leaps and bounds, just talking to him.

[759] That's cool.

[760] He's amazing.

[761] But, you know, how many of those guys exist?

[762] There's a few of those guys in, you know, in kickboxing, of course, you got Dwayne, you know, you got Trevor Whitman.

[763] Trevor Whitman is a spectacular coach.

[764] You know, you've got some amazing coaches out there, without a doubt, but to find ones that are just maniacally obsessed, so rare.

[765] And it's, man, I do.

[766] I miss training with Dwayne.

[767] Like, I'm, that whole situation with Faber, obviously.

[768] Very, very upsetting.

[769] Yeah, it is, man. And I stayed out of the middle of it, you know.

[770] I have a ton of respect for Faber, and I have a ton of respect for Dwayne.

[771] As do I. Yeah.

[772] I love both of those guys.

[773] It sucked.

[774] And, you know, I talked to Dwayne about it, and I talked to Fabor about it.

[775] I'm like, ah.

[776] I know.

[777] I can't do anything.

[778] I don't know them well enough to get in the middle of it and arbitrate.

[779] But I feel like the improvement that everybody was making under Dwayne, It was tangible, it was noticeable.

[780] It's like he came along, and then all of a sudden, everybody had this footwork, they're moving good, their striking combinations seemed to be improving.

[781] I agree, yeah.

[782] T .J. for sure, was the most, he benefited the most from it.

[783] He took to it probably the best, for sure.

[784] Like a duck to water.

[785] Yeah.

[786] It worked perfect for T .J. His style of wrestling, his body style, and his ability to, I mean, TJ's one of those guys that gets obsessed, too.

[787] And him and Dwayne just really meshed on that, on that fact of.

[788] notepad writing you know mapping everything out and tj has that memory you know that kind of comes along with it where he can remember all these different crazy combos and then get out there and actually perform it like yeah that takes a special athlete to be able to see that thing on paper train it and then actually hit it in a fight for sure the wild thing about his fight with san hagen was san hagen had him in a fucking triangle locked up and i was like man i wonder if he had some like pointers on how to finish that better that would have been it because it seemed locked the fuck in i mean he went through a through a knee right and then uh tj takes him down and in the process of taking down he locks up fully locked up triangle early in the fight and i was like man i feel like he's got this i was like i thought t j was going to tap yeah man i mean that dude's a beast I was worried for T .J. going into that fight.

[789] I mean, that's a lot of people are like, oh, I think T .J's going to go in there and just destroy it.

[790] I'm like, oh, like, I love T. You guys destroy San Hagan.

[791] I mean, the only guy was ever really destroyed him was Aljo.

[792] And Aljo took him down and choked him, you know, and Al Jermaine's got some fucking nasty jiu -jitsu.

[793] Mm -hmm.

[794] You know?

[795] Yep.

[796] I definitely knew this was going to be a tough fight, and it was a tough fight coming off of that long, you know?

[797] Mm -hmm.

[798] And, like, T .J's not getting a tune -up fight.

[799] This is going to make or break, like, show everyone T .J.'s back, or T .J. is going to have to fight a couple of times and get back, but...

[800] It's close to the decision as you're ever going to say, too.

[801] I mean, like, you could make an argument that Sanhagen did more damage, and you can make an argument that Dill Shott controlled them more.

[802] I'm a damage guy.

[803] I lean towards damage always.

[804] Yeah.

[805] Close -ass fucking fight.

[806] It was.

[807] Close -ass fight.

[808] I guarantee they're going to run it back.

[809] Oh, they have to.

[810] We're going to see that at least one more time.

[811] Yeah.

[812] Well, unfortunately, with T .J. surgery, I mean, he has, like, several major tears in that knee.

[813] You really never know what a guy's like once you get your knee mangled like that because the pain, like, it might inhibit training.

[814] It might become a problem, you know, it's so hard to say.

[815] On T .J.'s post, he said it happened at this part right here where his knee gets all twisted.

[816] Yeah, heel hook right there.

[817] That's the heel hook.

[818] Yeah, so he was yanking on that heel hook.

[819] Yeah.

[820] You could see it.

[821] I mean, go back.

[822] And by the way, that is the worst kind of heel hook.

[823] The inside heel hook right there is so nasty.

[824] So T .J. just didn't tap, and he just tore his shit apart.

[825] Yeah, you can see it there.

[826] See him keeping, yeah, he's keeping his weight off at there for a second.

[827] You can see that.

[828] Here he falls, too, in the second round.

[829] It's just, well, I'm sure because his knee was fucking mangled already.

[830] Look at him stepping on it funny.

[831] Yeah, he's walking.

[832] I guess I didn't notice that before, but.

[833] yeah he he played it off well he really did a good job playing it off and and gutting it out because he was obviously in like some serious pain yeah right there he got clipped but part of getting dropped there was because he had no balance on that left leg it was very wobbly you know have you had any surgeries on your knees no thankfully i've torn both uh MCLs um through wrestling but it's they were partial tears and it was basically through wrestling season i just had to wear a brace and do a lot of swimming and it was actually uh i think it was the first year as an all -american i tore it like a couple weeks or a few weeks before pack tens and uh just swam every workout up to pack tens and then i just taped it up went in there and i ended up winning pack tens wow and then uh ended up getting sixth did you ever get surgeon on it after no they just it was one of those things you just got to let hill up they said unless it's a complete tear um you just basically let it hill hey one thing i wanted to talk to you about is you got on a carnivore diet and it really cured up your psoriasis.

[834] Is that, I mean, how long have you had psoriasis for?

[835] My whole life.

[836] I mean, I remember as a kid, you know, it started on my shins and it was just a small little patch.

[837] And I think as a kid, I even thought it was just the ringworm from wrestling, you know?

[838] But it just never went away.

[839] and then just over the years kind of slowly spread got bigger so it's basically from knee to ankle on both shins and then you know as I started getting older it started showing up in different spots I got my elbows my scalp ears little patches on my on my body cavity and what was your diet like them um just I mean I'd like to say pretty much I eat clean you know it's but I I mean, everyone, you know, I'd still every once in a while eat some, like, fast food or, you know, if I go to somebody's house and there's, they're making stuff, I eat whatever they eat.

[840] But, you know, for the most part, I thought I was pretty clean until I got on this diet.

[841] And then I really figure out, like, how bad I was eating.

[842] Like, the amount of sugar, I think, is key.

[843] Like, I got on this diet, and I did it, I started March.

[844] I started March 1, and I did it for the last four months.

[845] or four months into that.

[846] But basically sugar, I noticed, was probably the worst thing for it.

[847] Did you notice this because you added it in occasionally and you would see a difference?

[848] No, I just was, you know, my psoriasis over the years has just gotten worse and worse and worse until my buddy was basically telling me about this diet.

[849] And we started basically the American almond beef, my beef company.

[850] And I was like, well, I have all the beef at my fingertips here.

[851] I have all this wild game that I can live off of the meat part of it's not going to be an issue it's basically me just making my mind up and being like just do this yeah right uh -huh and so it's always been something when I was fighting like I just because I've known about people have told me about it like I think it'll really help your psoriasis you should try it but I'm like I can't cut out carbs like I need carbs for training like I'm an explosive athlete so that was always my mindset you know so I never did it And then finally I was just like, you know what?

[852] Pocket, I'm going to try it.

[853] I'm going to do it for a month.

[854] And if I don't see any improvements, I'll just kind of go back to normal.

[855] If I do see improvements, I'm going to continue doing it maybe for like two or three months and see what it looks like, basically check back in and go from there.

[856] Dude, within like a week, my psoriasis was already night and day on my leg.

[857] And that was the before and after picture.

[858] I think it was maybe a week or even two weeks.

[859] on your Instagram you posted it.

[860] And it was just like my psoriasis was that was right after a hunt that I had gone on and the lack of sleep really flares it up which I obviously on hunts I'm eating bad in camp whatever we're making you know I'm getting like four hours of sleep at night and I'm usually living off of a lot of caffeine those three things definitely flare it up pretty bad and so that first picture was like extreme and then the next the picture next to it was on that diet for i think it was a week maybe it could have been two weeks i'll have to look back and see but dude it was already so much better i'm like well shit i'm going to keep doing this and just see so i kept kept doing it and uh you know i don't know it was probably three months in i'm just like it's like almost gone um and ideally I think it would be completely gone if I cut out caffeine which you know they talk about you probably won't need caffeine after a couple months your energy levels will be better which they were I just really fucking enjoy getting all cracked out and getting a bunch of shit done so I do love coffee yeah it's a problem it's so good yeah but um and then alcohol you know I just I'm not probably ever going to just quit alcohol every once in all I like to go have some wine with some buddies or Go have some drinks.

[861] I'm a tequila guy.

[862] I'll sip some tequila.

[863] But as long as you're doing it in moderation, rather, it seems to be okay.

[864] Yeah, exactly.

[865] And so, yeah, I've just kind of been sticking to it.

[866] I talk to Sean and Paul.

[867] I've talked to both of those guys.

[868] And basically...

[869] You're talking about Dr. Sean Baker and Paul Saladino.

[870] Sorry, sorry, yeah.

[871] Both those guys are doctors and they're also proponents of the carnivore.

[872] diet.

[873] And basically the idea was do this for three months and then start adding things back in and just figure out what foods flare it up.

[874] Well, Paul is a proponent of honey and some fruits, you know, and I think when I'm doing it, I do it on and off.

[875] And when I'm doing it, I always have fruit before I exercise.

[876] That's what I like to do.

[877] I just eat like apples or something before I exercise, and I, because I need the fast sugar, and I know I'm going to burn it off anyway.

[878] Yeah.

[879] But I really do feel better when I'm just eating, just mostly meat.

[880] Yeah.

[881] I mean, I don't mind salads.

[882] Salads are good.

[883] Salads don't seem to have an effect on me, but man, the thing that has an effect on me is pasta and dessert.

[884] Yeah.

[885] Those are the big ones.

[886] They have a big, they have a big, I feel like shit when I eat a lot of pasta.

[887] Yep.

[888] And I'm a fucking glutton, and I just keep doing it.

[889] I keep them so dumb.

[890] I'm so dumb.

[891] I know I always feel terrible, but while I'm eating it, it feels so good.

[892] Yeah, so good, man. Yeah, I'm the same.

[893] And I've been doing fruits, pretty much most vegetables, like your nightshades, like tomatoes and pepper, I notice, will start getting it flared up a bit.

[894] Really?

[895] Potatoes.

[896] I've started putting a little bit of potatoes back in here and there, and it doesn't seem too bad yet.

[897] What about sweet potatoes?

[898] Sweet potatoes are okay.

[899] But mainly just fruits, vegetables.

[900] I've been doing honey.

[901] Even mixing in some whole oats here and there, Paul was like against that.

[902] He's like, I probably wouldn't do that.

[903] But I just wanted to see.

[904] And it doesn't seem to be flaring it up too bad.

[905] So what I do notice is sugars, though.

[906] Like if I have any just processed sugars, you know, anything like you're processed breads.

[907] I haven't been doing any wheat, like any breads pretty much at all.

[908] And I have a little bit of white rice here and there.

[909] And that seems to be fine.

[910] but for the most part it's mostly meat diet yeah now when you're training have you adjusted it at all during training i had to do that and i i i did notice not that i felt bad i just felt i feel i feel better and i'm guessing it's because i'm more of an explosive athlete maybe but i feel better when i have more carbohydrates in there so you know obviously lots of fruits you know for your sugars, but that's where I started implementing a little bit of the whole oats and the white rice, too, as a white rice is like a post -workout, but mainly for me, the diet is for my psoriasis.

[911] So, you know, if I can eat that stuff and it doesn't flare it up, I'm going to do it, because it doesn't make me feel bad.

[912] What about just something bland, like plain rice?

[913] Does that fuck with you at all?

[914] No, not at all.

[915] So maybe that's a good option for carbohydrates.

[916] I know a lot of, like I talked to Robert Oberst, I had him on the podcast, you know he is.

[917] No, no. I'm one of the world's strongest man, like, literal giant.

[918] His head is as big as both of us together.

[919] He's huge.

[920] He has, he's a funny dude, too.

[921] Really hilarious.

[922] But mostly what he's eating is meat and rice.

[923] Yeah.

[924] You know, and he's like, it's just easy to digest, simple.

[925] You know, so a lot of folks have a problem with bread.

[926] Like bread and pastas.

[927] And it's just for a lot of people, that seems to be the thing that fucks with them.

[928] Yeah, but rice, I would think, is a pretty easy, especially white rice, pretty easy thing to digest.

[929] Yep.

[930] And so far, I haven't had any issues.

[931] I eat it, and I'm, like, waiting for my psoriasis just start itching, you know, and it doesn't.

[932] So I've also heard people say that, like, things you eat can, it's like a delayed effect, you know, up to 30 days or something like that for your psoriasis to, like, really get affected by it.

[933] I don't...

[934] How's that work?

[935] I don't know.

[936] Who are these people?

[937] I don't know.

[938] That's the thing.

[939] I read so many different things.

[940] I'm like, I don't know who to believe.

[941] I'm just basically testing shit out on my own.

[942] And right now, it seems that that stuff's fine.

[943] That's what an elimination diet is all about, right?

[944] You know, you just get it down to a very simple, simple, simple diet, and then add back mushrooms and add back, you know, fruits.

[945] Yeah.

[946] Yeah.

[947] It's interesting.

[948] But the reality of human bodies is that everybody's body is different.

[949] different and some people can thrive off nuts and berries and vegetables and and that's like the best diet for them and you got to find out what's the best diet for you it really is what it is yeah people always ask me like hey what's your can you send me your diet and I'm like it's bottom line what you just said everybody's different man yeah like what works for me isn't necessarily going to work for you yeah you got to figure that stuff out but I can give you kind of a guideline you know but that is it's it's really the case it's everybody has a a different body and everybody's body responds differently to foods.

[950] And obviously, allergies and things, too.

[951] There's a lot of people that have allergies.

[952] They don't even, they don't even aware of.

[953] You know, like, who was it?

[954] Was it Jessica, I believe, just found out that she was allergic to eggs.

[955] And it was like one of the main focuses of her diet.

[956] Like she was eating eggs constantly, and she was fucking allergic to her.

[957] Oh, no. So what would it, like, cause?

[958] Well, it just makes people feel like shit.

[959] It's just your body doesn't like.

[960] it just it makes you sluggish you know you have a hard time digesting things you know I eat the shit out of eggs I love eggs I should probably go do another one of those like food allergy tests I did one years ago and at the time I think like Amaranth and what is that what is Amaranth I don't know that's so that's you're allergic to it yeah that was probably seems easy to avoid right if what the fuck is it Amaranth what is Amaranth Jamie I think it's a great grain maybe or it is a grain yeah what kind of grain like i don't know i've seen it very rarely on like like well look at that thing meet this grain amaranth yeah okay it's uh it's really a seed like quinoa tiny seeds about the size i could avoid the fuck out of that right it was super easy to avoid it you can keep that shit whatever that is i have a hard time avoiding fruits i love fruit man i love like a nice fresh orange or apples or something like that i I really enjoy that.

[961] I did the full carnivore diet one month, and I felt fantastic, and that was nothing but meat.

[962] Yep.

[963] All the day, it was ribby steaks, elk meat, and bacon.

[964] Yep.

[965] I did the exact same thing.

[966] And eggs, too.

[967] Yeah.

[968] And eggs, yeah.

[969] What is, what is, they say it's, uh, so basically it's, um, met, well, is it meds, meat, eggs, dairy, seafood, right?

[970] Yeah.

[971] Yeah.

[972] It's kind of, what they say is okay for that.

[973] But yeah, I did it all of March and all of April.

[974] Just the full, because I basically, you're one of the people that kind of made me, like, lit the fire under my ass.

[975] Like, let's just do this for this right.

[976] So I want to see, because I saw your results.

[977] And I was like, fucking, I'm going to try it.

[978] It's just hard because I like food so much.

[979] That's the only thing that's hard.

[980] I mean, I really do love going out to eat, and I really fucking love pasta.

[981] But other than that, man, I'm telling you, I felt better.

[982] I felt like I had an extra gear.

[983] But it did slow me down with.

[984] Like when I was doing rounds on the bag, I would notice that, like, I was kind of gassing a little quicker.

[985] That's what I felt, too.

[986] And I felt my overall well -being felt good.

[987] Yeah.

[988] I felt like when we're here doing this, I feel energetic.

[989] I feel great.

[990] But that's why I started implementing a little bit more carbohydrates because same thing.

[991] Like, I was hitting mitts.

[992] And it's not that I felt bad, but I did feel like my explosive cardio almost would, like, kind of dwindle a bit.

[993] And then when I started adding in a little bit of the white rice and the grains and more fruit, man, I came right back.

[994] Yeah.

[995] Do you know who Zach Bitter is?

[996] Zach Bitter holds the world record for running 100 miles.

[997] He ran 100 miles in, I think it was 11 hours and 40 minutes.

[998] Holy shit.

[999] He's a fucking savage.

[1000] And all he eats is meat.

[1001] His whole thing is, but when he goes to a run, he'll take glucose gel.

[1002] and he ramps up his glucose and his carbohydrates for performance.

[1003] But he's a big proponent of carnivore diet, which is really interesting.

[1004] Because, you know, you think like carnivore, you think like big fucking, like Sean Baker's a gorilla.

[1005] Yeah, yeah.

[1006] Giant fucking dude.

[1007] But that is not Zach.

[1008] Zach is, you know, he looks like a marathon runner.

[1009] I mean, he's an ultra runner.

[1010] And mostly eats meat.

[1011] Yeah, that's great.

[1012] He actually does a podcast with Sean Baker.

[1013] I'm going to have to look that up because, yeah, that stuff interests me, those long endurance athletes, you know, and that being an explosive athlete and then someone that's basically relying on, I guess those guys do rely a lot on fat, and that's kind of what the carnivore diet, your main source of energy should be fat now.

[1014] Yeah.

[1015] And you're basically making the switch from glycogen from the carbohydrates to fat.

[1016] And the first couple weeks of that, I felt like shit.

[1017] I think they call it like the keto flu or something like that where you're just like, I have, like, my brain's foggy.

[1018] I'm just, like, tired.

[1019] I don't have any motivation, no energy.

[1020] And then when your body kind of makes that transition, you feel, I felt so much better.

[1021] I think you can move that along quicker with exogenous ketones.

[1022] Yeah.

[1023] Yeah, you take ketones.

[1024] There's a bunch of ketones supplements and different things you could take that.

[1025] I should have done that.

[1026] Ramp up your ketones.

[1027] Mm -hmm.

[1028] Yeah.

[1029] I've done the keto diet, too, but I just get bored.

[1030] Yeah.

[1031] You know.

[1032] Diet suck.

[1033] I hate them.

[1034] Yeah.

[1035] It is.

[1036] But listen, you know, I had this woman on yesterday who escaped from North Korea and is one of the most difficult podcasts I've ever done.

[1037] It was really intense.

[1038] And it was listening to her talk about starving most of her life.

[1039] Yeah.

[1040] Until she escaped, you know, us sitting here talking about diet sucking.

[1041] We're assholes.

[1042] It's just, it's just such a privilege.

[1043] to like, oh, I like eating everything.

[1044] Why do I have to only eat meat?

[1045] If she could only eat meat, you know, how happy she would have been, she would have dreams about just eating piles of eggs, you know, really crazy, crazy story.

[1046] Yeah, man, yeah, we're assholes for sure.

[1047] Well, it's just, you know, you know what you know.

[1048] Yeah, that's crazy.

[1049] I'm going to have to listen.

[1050] Oh, my God, it was hard to listen to it.

[1051] It was, you know, having this conversation with her and trying to imagine that there's a, place right now on the other side of the world where people are living under the thumb of a brutal dictator and you know they're starving to death literally like most of the men are four foot 10 because they're just they have no nutrition they're starving and she's so tiny I mean she's like literally one of the most frail women I've ever met in my life because she was starving her whole life like when you shake her hand it's like you feel like her her like she's made out of glass you know like she's so small small she's 80 pounds that's crazy yeah and she's eating whatever she wants now but this is just because of her life you know starving all of her life it's the one of the craziest podcasts of her i'm not listening to it yeah heavy man just really fucking heavy like they survived off like bugs really that was mostly what they ate grasshoppers is where they got their protein from yeah and i would imagine like hunting i mean they probably don't have the energy to do much of anything honestly huh she was saying that little kids would catch rats they were eating dead bodies and they would eat the rats oh man they were just so starving that when they caught a rat they would cook it and eat it and then they get sick and die and then rats wind up eating them it was horrific man and this is that's happening right now it's crazy it's crazy it's beyond fucked yeah i feel Just fucking only eat rib -eyes, this sucks.

[1052] Do you eat any organs?

[1053] I do.

[1054] Basically, I keep all the livers from all the animals I kill.

[1055] What about heart?

[1056] And heart, too.

[1057] I really enjoy heart.

[1058] Liver, it's not necessarily my favorite.

[1059] I eat it because I know it's good for me. Liver and onions is good.

[1060] Yeah, and I like it.

[1061] I haven't tried that for a long time, and I probably should do that.

[1062] I wonder if onions would fuck with your diet, though.

[1063] I don't know.

[1064] I mean, only one way to find out.

[1065] Right.

[1066] Yeah, sauteed onions are so delicious, man. Some grass -fed butter.

[1067] Mm -hmm.

[1068] Mm -hmm.

[1069] Yeah, I eat the liver as well.

[1070] I'm a big fan of elk liver.

[1071] You know, I was reading about these Comanches that would take, I want to do this one day.

[1072] They would hunt buffalo, and when they would kill a buffalo, they would cut the liver out and then eat it raw and squirt bile on it from the gallbladder.

[1073] took the gallbladder and squirt bile on the raw liver and that's how they would eat it they would season it with gallbladder what do you know what the meaning or why they salty i guess i guess the gallbladder salty the bile from the gallbladder salty i mean that has got to be a fucking strong flavor i would imagine it's like i need to do that super tangy just like i feel like i should have a doctor on standby but if i ever hunt a buffalo i'm going to do that yeah damn it i ended up when was that two years ago now I wish I would have known that it would have tried it but did you really were yeah well northern central California actually there was a mountain range out there that it's a 30 ,000 acre piece of property that this guy basically introduced a bull and like four cows to 30 years ago and just put him in there for it basically wanted his family to be able to hunt them eventually and over the 30 years they've kind of just reproduced and they've separated into a bunch of different herds and all the surrounding like ranches the bison are starting to go in there and compete with cattle and their food and everything.

[1074] So these guys are getting pissed.

[1075] So that year was the first year that they basically opened it up to hunting.

[1076] Like we need to take a certain amount of bulls and cows off of this property because they're starting to expand off our 30 ,000 acres.

[1077] And so I ended up going out there and smacked them with my bow and had a bunch of buddies there with me. We all broke it down and basically lived out that.

[1078] Not a lot of genetic diversity.

[1079] I know, right?

[1080] If you have one bull and four cows, like maybe it was a couple bulls.

[1081] I know it was a small group that he just put in there and just let go.

[1082] Yeah.

[1083] But they had a hunt in Yellowstone this year.

[1084] This is like one of the first years because they have so many bulls in Yellowstone that they had a hunt.

[1085] But what was interesting is like the requirements.

[1086] Like one of the requirements is no ATVs, no horseback.

[1087] I saw that email.

[1088] It was like a full like list of requirements.

[1089] So, bro, you got to.

[1090] get a bunch of studs to help you carry out quarters like what if you shoot one 15 miles in dude that's a i mean oh that's a big fucking animal son yeah dude the back there's a picture of me holding one of the backstraps it's mean it's taller than me they're huge oh it's giant such a massive massive animal i i've never hunted one but i did take my kids to yellowstone and we were uh in this one area where you could take photographs of them and we're we're behind this area where if they wanted to they could just fucking run you over yeah and I was like you know I think my daughters were eight and six at the time or nine maybe maybe nine and seven at the time so I was like fucking super helicopter dad like the moment these motherfuckers flinch I'm grabbing these kids like two footballs and making a run for the truck because uh I know they they smash people Oh, yeah, you see videos of the kid just getting tossed.

[1091] I know, there was a little kid.

[1092] Just like, phew.

[1093] Yeah, little fucking kid.

[1094] She landed on her feet, luckily.

[1095] And she was okay.

[1096] People don't realize, like, those things are dangerous, man. They're fucking dangerous.

[1097] They look like they're slow and just kind of lethargic, but.

[1098] They run 30 miles an hour.

[1099] Oh, yeah.

[1100] And they'll knock your fucking car into oblivion with their head.

[1101] Oh, yeah.

[1102] Yeah.

[1103] Man, it's crazy.

[1104] It happens every year out there.

[1105] Insane, insanely powerful animal.

[1106] And so fucking delicious.

[1107] Oh, yeah.

[1108] You know, it's so rich in protein, so good for you, too.

[1109] Moose, too.

[1110] You've gotten a moose, huh?

[1111] Yeah, I got one moose once.

[1112] Yeah.

[1113] I drew a last attack a few years back and went with my buddy Pat up there.

[1114] And we were like 150 miles up river on his little skiff boat.

[1115] Wow.

[1116] And ended up killing like a 63 inch just giant.

[1117] Oh, my God.

[1118] Me and him.

[1119] It took us like over 10 hours to get this thing all cut up.

[1120] 63.

[1121] For folks who don't understand what that means, the size of the antlers where they take a tape and they measure it and 63 inches is fucking huge like I could lay in it that's like this table that's like the antlers are the size of this table it was crazy and the funny thing is so he's an Alaskan resident and he's the one that told me to put in for the tag and he's like you'll probably take you know maybe draw it in like 10 years boom first year drew it oh wow that's crazy luck oh it's so lucky and me and him went up here but he it was a they considered a trophy tag so it has to be at least 50 inches wide or the bull has to have at least four on it four points on his front round time and so he's never trophy hunted you know they live off they kill the first yearling that they see and that's what they live off for the year you know right and so we come around the corner and this bull just stands up and it's huge you know and both of us are just standing and they're looking at it 50 yards and I'm like dude do you think that's 50 inches like I've never seen like a bull moose this close and he's like ah man I think so But it could be like 49 I don't know And so we're just sitting there for like It seemed like 10 minutes Just trying to like decide And it only had three and two On the front brow time So that's out So it's got to be at least 50 inches And if you, I mean if you're at half an inch off You're fucked You're fucked You're getting fired You're losing your hunting license And so we're just sitting there For a while And he's just staring at us And then finally he turns And you get that back view And we're both just like dude that's got to be over 50 and so I ended up getting them and we walked over there and 63 inches was this a bow hunter rifle hunt I definitely could have gotten with the boat we were like 50 yards from him just standing there but it's a big fucking hell dude is so huge and then the grizzly came into camp that night and mangled a bunch of the meat that was hanging up oh Jesus the big chunk of neck did you hear it no no that's the scary thing we're sleeping on the boat it's got like a little cab built on it with like two cots and um did you put the meat eating a tree?

[1122] Well, we had like a hang station.

[1123] You see how big those legs are, dude.

[1124] It was like take everything for us to get that leg that high off the ground.

[1125] You know, we're trying to like tie it up there.

[1126] But, you know, everything's pretty low.

[1127] And the chunk of neck was probably this big around.

[1128] And it grabbed that, picked it up, didn't even drag it.

[1129] Carried it into the woods about 40 yards and set it down and dug a big hole, took a big shit next to it.

[1130] And then I don't know We woke up and it hurt us and it took off because it never buried it, never got it in the hole.

[1131] But we woke up and like a bunch of the meat was kind of mangled like some of the hind quarters and stuff.

[1132] And we're like, dude, screw this.

[1133] Let's get out of here.

[1134] So we just loaded everything up and...

[1135] Do you listen to the meat eater podcast?

[1136] Yeah.

[1137] I did that with Rinella, dude.

[1138] Those guys are awesome.

[1139] Oh, you did a meat eater?

[1140] Yeah.

[1141] Do you do the podcast or did you hunt with them?

[1142] The podcast.

[1143] I want to hunt with those guys.

[1144] I've hunted with him a few times.

[1145] He's awesome.

[1146] Oh, yeah.

[1147] I've watched it.

[1148] They had an incredible episode of the podcast.

[1149] We were talking about it.

[1150] an Elkhont they had on a Fognac Island.

[1151] Yeah, oh yeah.

[1152] You know that story where they got attacked by a bear?

[1153] Yep.

[1154] Like, where one of the guys, Dirtmouth, actually was on the bear's back as it was running down the hill.

[1155] It's fucking crazy.

[1156] Like, he found himself because the bear comes piling through these guys, and all of a sudden he's on this bear's back, riding it down the hill.

[1157] And they're talking about a coastal Alaskan brown bear, which is huge.

[1158] Like 11 feet tall.

[1159] Dude, no way.

[1160] So grizzlies, mountain lions, and sharks.

[1161] Fuck that.

[1162] They can all go fuck themselves.

[1163] Yeah, all of them.

[1164] I'm terrified.

[1165] Those are probably my biggest fears in life.

[1166] Have you seen a mountain line in the wild?

[1167] Yeah, yeah.

[1168] I had one stalking on me in Utah.

[1169] Really?

[1170] Yeah, I was sitting there.

[1171] It was filming for a hunting show.

[1172] There's a tree line right in front of us, and it's a big sage flat.

[1173] And basically the bulls would come out of the tree line, and they'd cross that sage flat.

[1174] And so we were going to try to cut them off, you know, and get in position.

[1175] and we're sitting there, and my camera guy's like, dude, what the hell is that?

[1176] And we all turned around, and there was a mama and four younger ones, just, I don't know, 100 yards behind us.

[1177] Oh, God.

[1178] And as soon as they saw us look, they, like, hunkered down.

[1179] Like, they were coming in on us.

[1180] And as soon as we looked, obviously, they, like, turned around and, like, snuck back down.

[1181] And there was a big canyon.

[1182] They went back down into it.

[1183] But, dude, if we wouldn't have seen, they probably would have came right up on us.

[1184] When we were elk hunting two years ago, Dudley had won 20 yards away.

[1185] from him they were both stalking the same elk no yeah yeah you know dudley is a fucking ninja right so he's like super slow moving quiet and he looks over and 20 yards away from is a fucking mountain lion it's like what just like the hell but um you know in texas crazy you just shoot him like in texas they have they're not protected at all it's just like a coyote yeah they're like get rid of it but in In California, you can't do anything to them.

[1186] You can't even go out of state, legally hunt one and bring it back.

[1187] Right, right.

[1188] But in Utah, you can hunt them, but you have to have a tag, and it's very difficult to get.

[1189] It's not easy.

[1190] Yeah, I had a buddy, my buddy, Adam Green Tree, gave me some mountain lion meat.

[1191] I hear it's pretty good.

[1192] I haven't eaten it yet.

[1193] Oh, you haven't?

[1194] Is it like some of the backstrap?

[1195] Yeah.

[1196] I've heard multiple people.

[1197] Yeah.

[1198] It's a real light meat, almost looks like pork.

[1199] Rinella says it's superb.

[1200] Really?

[1201] This is his description of it.

[1202] He said, it is superb.

[1203] I'm like, really?

[1204] He goes, amazing.

[1205] See, I always have this weird thing about eating predators.

[1206] Predators, things that eat meat.

[1207] Yeah.

[1208] Like, meat, I don't know.

[1209] It's just, and if you think about what they're eating, like, they're not like a coyote where they're just, like, eating stuff that's been dead for weeks and it's rotting.

[1210] You know, they basically kill and they eat it fresh.

[1211] And then once I'm, I could be completely wrong on this, but this is what I've been.

[1212] told my buddy's a biologist and you know but basically as soon as it starts like rotting they basically don't touch it much anymore they go kill no one yeah probably and so they're they're eating the clean fresh stuff but still the just the thought of eating something that's eating meat has always been a little strange have you had bear i have yep did weird you out uh i mean it was a year it was years ago i made a lot of chili and jerky out of it but yeah it's it bears definitely on that list for sure what's crazy is it was one of the preferred foods of the the pioneers the people that were traveling across the country they loved it yeah because it's fatty and it was soft you know like one of the things about i guess if you're just cooking things straight over fire you would think when you think about bears you would think for people listening to this that a bear would be like a really dense really powerful animal like like a moose or uh elk or something like They're not.

[1213] They're soft.

[1214] They're soft -bodied, which is weird.

[1215] Yeah.

[1216] Like, almost like gooey.

[1217] Yeah.

[1218] And they have a lot of fat.

[1219] Very fat, high fat content.

[1220] And it's a delicious animal.

[1221] Yeah.

[1222] And they ate the shit out of them when they were traveling across the country, including a lot of Native Americans.

[1223] Like the Comanchee ate a lot of bear.

[1224] It was one that I harvested in Idaho.

[1225] And these bears were all eating like wild plums.

[1226] There was tons of wild plum trees all over the place.

[1227] And so I didn't think it tasted bad.

[1228] at all by any means like i would definitely do that again but i think it's just like that mindset of like man i'm eating something that eats meat but like a bear a bear is different a black bear especially like i mean a lot of the times they're eating berries and grass and like like the fruit tree like plums or whatever they'll they're opportunists or they'll eat whatever the hell they can come across and and live off of but you know i think like we have a pig ranch um that i guide pig hunts on up in Northern California, and there's tons of blackberry trees, tons of mulberry trees, green pastures because they run a bunch of cattle on it, and then tons of acorns, too.

[1229] So these pigs, like people, I think a lot of the times get weirded out eating wild boar, and they're just like, you know, I think you go a lot of these coastal places where there's drought and, like, food's scarce.

[1230] They'll eat dead animals.

[1231] They'll, you know, even sometimes kill each other and live off of that, you know?

[1232] And it's, I think that's when you start seeing a lot of that, really.

[1233] bad gaminess in the pigs and then also like disease coming but these pigs up there are phenomenal man and I think it's because they're eating that delicious stuff year round and they're not having to like scrounge around and trying to like find any type of dead animal that they can and live off of it and so that's what I try to tell people all the time on you know I'm sure bears are kind of the same situation you know you got a bear that's in a place where it's tons of food and they're not struggling all the time they're probably going to taste fine yeah exactly you got a bear that's scrounging living in a trash can there's not tons of other stuff or that's there and they just decide that's the easiest way to eat they're going to go do that well bears will eat rotten meat you know and if you you get a bear that's been eating rotten meat it's like apparently the nastiest bears are the ones who are eating rotten salmon like when they're they're you know like a salmon run and there's a bunch of dead salmon they they eat the shit out of them then you like renella was telling me that he borrowed a guy's smoker and he used it to cook some bear and he used it to cook some bear and And he said the smell of fish was so bad that he told the guy, hey man, you got to clean your smoker out.

[1234] It just stinks like fish.

[1235] And the guy said, I'd never cooked a fish in there my life.

[1236] No way.

[1237] Yeah, and he's like, really?

[1238] And he realized like, oh, my God, it's the bear.

[1239] You know, he was younger at the time.

[1240] He didn't realize it was literally the bear had eaten so much fish that its flesh smelled like rotten fish.

[1241] He said one of the best meats he's ever had in his life was a bear that had been eating blueberries.

[1242] Yeah, I could believe that.

[1243] They say that blueberry bear is supposed to be just spectacular.

[1244] I don't think I've ever eaten one but I haven't no not like that I've eaten bear from Alberta yeah and it was really good but these are bears that just you know we're eating mostly it depends on what they get they eat a lot of fawns up there yeah a lot of colts a lot of fonds a lot of calves my buddy was just here in northern California scouting up in the B zone and there's tons of bears up there but I don't think people realize how many bears we have here in California, but he watched a black bear come into a canyon.

[1245] He was, he was sitting there phone scoping a buck, and there was a down of fawn over here, kind of lower, and the bear comes up through the bottom of the canyon, and he looks like he's filming it, and the bear sticks his nose up, and you can tell he gets wind of the deer.

[1246] The buck takes off, and so he turns over and starts filming the buck still over here, and all of a sudden, like five minutes later, he hears that fawn screaming and he pans over and that bear was standing over the top of it just ripping it.

[1247] It's like crazy.

[1248] Eating it while it's alive too.

[1249] Oh yeah.

[1250] It was screaming.

[1251] And so it's like I guess people don't realize also how big of a predator bears are on the deer population.

[1252] Like I guess you just think, you know, they're probably eating more, you know, smaller game things or if they find something dead.

[1253] But no, they'll hunt down and kill fawns, even doze or, you know, you know, they'll hunt down and Sometimes even bucks, I've, oh, I got a good story.

[1254] Dude, it was an archery story years ago when I was young.

[1255] It was me, it was opening day.

[1256] Me and one of my wrestling teammates, my dad and his dad went this way.

[1257] We go right.

[1258] We're coming up this dirt road, and my buddy's like, hey, what's that under that tree right there?

[1259] And I'm looking, and there's a bear just sitting there staring at us, and he's laying over the top of a giant blacktail buck, like big four by four.

[1260] and I'm just like what the heck and he takes off and so we run over there and I'm just looking at this thing and he that bear had killed that buck full grown buck like healthy like it was still warm like he'd just killed it the only thing eating off of it was the ass end was eating off on it and I did not know that I guess Black Bear at that time would hunt down and kill a mature buck and it was crazy to come up on it and just see it like it had just happened like we probably just missed it maybe an hour hour before that.

[1261] Where that it could catch it, right?

[1262] Bucks are so fast and so nimble.

[1263] But, I mean, and we were back in a spot where unless somebody poached it, you know, but I looked at front, there was no, nothing in the guts.

[1264] Like, I was actually looking to see if somebody had done it.

[1265] If there's a wound somewhere?

[1266] Yeah, nothing.

[1267] Clean body everywhere.

[1268] He had just chewed like one of the back hands off.

[1269] Wow.

[1270] It was crazy.

[1271] So he probably stumbled upon it or something, chased it down.

[1272] You got it.

[1273] That's wild.

[1274] Dudley told me he saw a moose get its back broken by a grizzly through a scope.

[1275] No way.

[1276] Yeah, he was looking at it through a spotting scope.

[1277] And he saw this grizzly chasing this moose and swats it on the back and breaks its back.

[1278] No way.

[1279] It's just chasing it down.

[1280] Chasing it just, boom, snap.

[1281] The thing goes down.

[1282] Like, that's how strong grizzly bear is.

[1283] Yeah, and people don't realize how quick they are.

[1284] Oh, my God.

[1285] So fast.

[1286] We were talking about that out there.

[1287] You see one and it's like you just think of them kind of like a big, lazy, kind of slow.

[1288] Dude, they can go.

[1289] Yeah.

[1290] They're lazy until they're not.

[1291] Exactly.

[1292] I've seen videos of them running down deer.

[1293] Yeah.

[1294] Running them down, like closing the distance.

[1295] The deer's like wide open and they're just closing the distance.

[1296] It is hard to believe because when you see them just sort of lumbering along, preserving energy, you just assume.

[1297] But, you know, they're masters of preservation.

[1298] I mean, they literally sleep all through the fucking winter.

[1299] They eat so much so they can just sleep.

[1300] Isn't that crazy?

[1301] It's nuts.

[1302] Just the thought of a bear, like, going to sleep for that long and surviving in a whole, the whole, just a bear's life is just so interesting to me. It is.

[1303] It's a very interesting animal, you know, but the thing is people get so attached to bears.

[1304] Like, no one, they, there's not an animal that people get more mad at you for shooting in North America than a bear.

[1305] I agree.

[1306] Meanwhile, it's like, I guess people are just accustomed to people shooting deer, you know, and they, They see deer get hit by car.

[1307] They see deer everywhere.

[1308] It's rare that you see a bear because bears are a little cautious being around people, but there's plenty of them.

[1309] Oh, yeah.

[1310] And they make a big dent on wildlife.

[1311] And if you don't do something to manage them, like my friends John and Jen live up in Alberta and where they are, like there's bears everywhere up there.

[1312] You can't imagine how many bears there are.

[1313] And this is like really, really dense woods up there.

[1314] I see a lot of the videos of you guys up there.

[1315] Yeah, it's a crazy place.

[1316] Yeah, it's really crazy.

[1317] But because of Canada and the lockdowns, they can't even get up there.

[1318] No one is allowed to hunt up there.

[1319] You can't, like, people can't come across.

[1320] Most of their business was Americans coming up to Alberta to hunt.

[1321] And for the past two seasons in a row, they've had no income.

[1322] Dude, that sucks.

[1323] It's crazy.

[1324] Are they taking care of them as far as, I mean, what are they supposed to do?

[1325] I mean, what are they doing in that situation?

[1326] Yeah, are they.

[1327] I don't think they do shit.

[1328] Nothing at all, huh?

[1329] I mean, I can't imagine they do.

[1330] I mean, how would they, I mean, like, their business is based on customers and then tips.

[1331] Yeah.

[1332] So, like, how could someone take care of them?

[1333] Like, what is it, what is someone going to do?

[1334] How could the government supplement that?

[1335] Yeah.

[1336] I'm not exactly sure what they've been doing, but they're stuck.

[1337] Yeah.

[1338] Like, you can't even, like, if you come from Can't, they're great people.

[1339] Yeah.

[1340] I love them.

[1341] They're awesome.

[1342] I love them, too.

[1343] If you come from Canada into America and then you try to go back to Canada, I think there's like a 14 month quarantine and.

[1344] What?

[1345] Yeah.

[1346] Oh, excuse me, 14.

[1347] Excuse me, 14.

[1348] I was like, I'm using words wrong.

[1349] A 14 day quarantine.

[1350] And I think also your, I don't even think it's that easy to come across.

[1351] I think you have to have a reason.

[1352] Like there has to be like some clear cut.

[1353] Yeah, because like I was just reading something about the border being shut down.

[1354] So I don't know what that means.

[1355] think it is and it like so um paul bride who does a lot of kuyu's photography he's up there and he's i know he came down kind of i think that was last year kind of in the midst of everything and at the time it was essential workers only could come into the united states and he had a hunt that was uh playing in california that he needed to get over there for to film for kuyu or to do photos for and he came in he did the hunt and on his way back they like hammered him him.

[1356] He told us, like, they threatened, like, you are not an essential worker, basically.

[1357] You are not allowed to travel.

[1358] If we catch you, doing it again.

[1359] I think it was, what did he say?

[1360] Like, $700 ,000 fine.

[1361] And there was a certain amount of time in jail if he did it.

[1362] $700 ,000.

[1363] Yeah, $700 ,000 is what they told him.

[1364] And so, and then he had to go quarantine for 14 days away from his wife.

[1365] Jesus Christ.

[1366] He's nuts.

[1367] Canada is, you know, it's, you know, it's, It's interesting how different countries handle these things, lockdowns, and different states.

[1368] You know, in this country, you're seeing differences on different, like New York City just instituted a, they have a passport, essentially.

[1369] If you want to use a gym, if you want to use, and this is not even like a COVID test, like we test negative.

[1370] You have to be vaccinated, which doesn't make any sense.

[1371] Because if you're vaccinated, you can still spread it.

[1372] You can catch it and you can still spread it.

[1373] Like, you can do rapid antigen tests.

[1374] It takes 10 minutes, and you could find out whether or not someone has it.

[1375] Yeah.

[1376] It's not that hard.

[1377] I mean, this is, they've been doing it now for a long time.

[1378] The idea that you're going to have a vaccine passport, like a vaccine is the only solution to this.

[1379] It's just, it's preposterous.

[1380] I don't get it.

[1381] I mean, the logic with some of this stuff is so ass backwards.

[1382] It's a lot of it's fear -based.

[1383] I think so, yeah.

[1384] Panicking, and they don't know what to do, and they feel like, you know, this is an easy -to -finding.

[1385] follow solution if everyone just got vaccinated but that's not really the case no because everyone would have to get vaccinated simultaneously and then even then there's a lot of articles that are out there now there's scientific papers that have been written about vaccines that don't eliminate a virus like they still allow someone to catch the virus well that can possibly lead to variants that are even stronger yep the whole thing is fucked and it is and again I hate to be the fucking guy who keeps beating a dead horse but they never talk about your health no they never talk about losing weight they never talk about exercise they never talk about vitamins and all the things you can do to strengthen your immune system never bring it up it's just a bunch of fat people eating McDonald's trying to get a vaccine like this is the only thing you can get yep it's crazy it's so frustrating it is beyond I mean there's yeah I mean we could sit here well there's also people that have already had it you know people that have already had it and have antibodies they still want you to get vaccinated like Jamie has antibodies from nine fucking months ago Look at them flexing I just got tested I had them too bro Yeah pound When was yours was from February?

[1386] February of last year Which I don't even know I never got tested then it was just the big hunt Expo in Utah that we do every year And I got extremely sick And all the symptoms were the same as COVID So February of 19 Yeah Wow Oh No February of 19 there was no COVID yet You sure?

[1387] Yeah.

[1388] November of 19 was when it was happening in Wuhan.

[1389] So I would have been in February.

[1390] Oh, right, of course.

[1391] Duh.

[1392] See, again, I'm bad with numbers.

[1393] No, I'm pretty sure that's when it was.

[1394] So last year.

[1395] No. 20.

[1396] It would have been 20.

[1397] It would have been while the pandemic was happening, right?

[1398] You're right.

[1399] Yeah.

[1400] No, because last year.

[1401] Well, the pandemic was March, right?

[1402] So you caught it.

[1403] Yeah, March is when everything shut down.

[1404] Then it was February last year.

[1405] So you were at February of 2020, right before.

[1406] Everything shut down.

[1407] Yes, right, right, okay.

[1408] That was it.

[1409] So, I mean, maybe that doesn't seem so far -fetched now.

[1410] That's fucking long ago, man. That's crazy.

[1411] That really is crazy.

[1412] It's more than a year.

[1413] Yeah, unless I came across it again, I just didn't have any symptoms, and my body was just like.

[1414] Well, SARS -cove -1, right?

[1415] The original SARS, whatever it is, I don't know if they called SARS -cove -1.

[1416] It's just SARS, original SARS.

[1417] People have had antibodies for that for years.

[1418] you know and um they think that well it's with you listen if you got it in February of 20 and here we are how many months is that that's a long fucking time dude more than a year later you have antibodies it's interesting I was on an elk hunt uh in New Mexico last November and two of my buddies like a day after we got back tested positive for it.

[1419] So maybe you were asymptomatic.

[1420] Maybe.

[1421] Because you had the antibodies already from February and then it probably just went through your system.

[1422] Wild speculation.

[1423] I saw this yesterday.

[1424] Wait a minute.

[1425] Wild speculation on this show?

[1426] The fuck are you doing?

[1427] They're saying the white -tailed deer have antibodies.

[1428] Yeah, I've seen that.

[1429] If you eat that, would it show up, do you think?

[1430] It's a good question.

[1431] That's a good question.

[1432] Very good question.

[1433] I did not know that.

[1434] That's crazy.

[1435] Yeah, there's quite a few white -tailed deer they've tested that have antibodies.

[1436] How the fuck are they getting it?

[1437] What the fuck?

[1438] Who's coughing on deer?

[1439] Right?

[1440] How are they getting it?

[1441] They're outdoors always, only, right?

[1442] Yeah.

[1443] Wait a minute, maybe not.

[1444] Maybe these are deer that were in one of them farms.

[1445] Yeah, it could have been.

[1446] By the way, a fucking petri dish of diseases.

[1447] They think that's one of the main sources for CWD.

[1448] Chronic wasting disease?

[1449] They tested 600 deer in 1, 2, 3, 4 different states.

[1450] Hmm.

[1451] But where are they getting the deer from?

[1452] Yeah, these can't be a while.

[1453] These got a few.

[1454] These got to be high fence operation, I'm guessing.

[1455] See, if that's the case, you've got a bunch of fat dudes that don't take care of themselves coughing on these deer that they're feeding.

[1456] I fucking have a real problem with that whole feeder thing, man. People like sit in front of a feeder and wait for these deer to show up.

[1457] Look, it's one thing if it's just, you're just getting meat and this is how you do it.

[1458] But you kind of shouldn't call that hunting.

[1459] Yeah.

[1460] You're harvesting.

[1461] It's killing.

[1462] Yeah.

[1463] You're killing.

[1464] Yeah.

[1465] Look, I'm all down for it if you got invasive species like wild pigs.

[1466] and stuff like that but it's the Texas situation is very odd very odd it's mostly private land huge ranches giant and a lot of people hunting over feeders like I was talking these guys like you hunt yeah we hunt too yeah my buddy's got a ranch we sit in front of the feet I'm like stop stop stop talking you're not hunting you're waiting yes yeah you're waiting I guess you got some of these like insanely thick what do they call those the oh yeah Sandaro Sanderoes or something They use a Mexican word for some strange reason But really I mean how I don't know how it's you would hunt these deer Outside of that but you're right They basically just dump a bunch of feed Down these clear cuts Like a road basically and they get on the end of it and just wait Well it's similar to what they have to do with a lot of bear hunting Like they bait because there's no fucking way First of all Bear's nose is so ridiculously powerful You're not sneaking up on this them no it's like how it's you going to get them the only way spot and stock works is if you have to go to an area where there's like a clear cut where they have new like greenery coming through and the bears like to eat that right after spring yeah or you find them when they're eating berries yeah yep even that like getting close enough to archery hunt yeah yeah because if it's thick enough to where there's no possible way to be quiet like what are you supposed to do i have friends in montana that hunt bear and there's no baiting in Montana.

[1467] So it's like spring bear hunt is like, you might go 30 fucking days and never get close.

[1468] That's how we are in Cali.

[1469] You can't bait.

[1470] You can't even run dog.

[1471] They used to run a lot of dogs on them where they'd tree them.

[1472] I'm not, you know, if it's keeping the population down, that's cool, but it's not something that ever interests me to do.

[1473] But, you know, we can't do any of that anymore.

[1474] So it's all basically spot and stock like Montana now.

[1475] Right.

[1476] I bet archery success.

[1477] in California has to be so low.

[1478] I'm not sure, yeah.

[1479] I know a Tahone ranch, they kill a few every year and big ones, too, but they use rifles.

[1480] They were trying to outlaw bear hunting altogether last year, but they put the cabbash on it.

[1481] Well, when people started understanding the numbers and go, hey, hey, hey, do you know what the fuck you're talking about?

[1482] You're just, it's like Rinella always likes to describe bears as charismatic, charismatic megafauna.

[1483] And this is the thing about bears because people think of them as like stuffed animals or teddy bears or yogi but if you're a person who lives on a ranch you understand what these things really are these are the things that eat calves alive yeah these are fucking predators big giant fast -moving predators and you have to control the population yeah there has to be predator population control but there's a thing about laws that get passed in high population density areas where the people never have contact like in BC they outlawed grizzly hunting but meanwhile people that I know that live in like rural BC are like fuck like you assholes in the cities you just you don't even know what you're banning you're banning hunting these things that you have to hunt because then they're gonna hire people to kill them now and so then these guides aren't going to make any money the outfitters aren't going to make any money more people are going to get their shit eating animals more people are going to get attacked because they're going to get less nervous around people because now they're not going to think of people as being hunters anymore.

[1484] Yeah.

[1485] It's not good.

[1486] Well, I mean, how few people really under, I mean, other than talking about it on podcasts like this one or on meat eater or on any other podcast where people have like common sense discussions about wildlife management, most people really have no idea.

[1487] No, no clue.

[1488] Right.

[1489] No clue at all.

[1490] And it's, I mean, it's not like they're going to go out of their way to get on the internet and start doing some research on it.

[1491] It's just whatever they hear is what they know.

[1492] You know, and California is probably one of the worst places for that as far as that goes, man. It's tough.

[1493] Yeah.

[1494] You know, people just, like you said, associate bears with the cute and cuddly.

[1495] They don't, they have no idea that, I mean, I know now in L .A. They're starting to figure that out a little bit because you're getting tons of coyotes even coming in and killing people's pets and even attacking people.

[1496] You got mountain lines, you know, attacking people running and bike riding.

[1497] and killing them, you know, and I think there's even more and more bears now starting to move in.

[1498] Especially in Mount Pasadena, jumping in people swimming pools and shit.

[1499] Oh, yeah, it's crazy.

[1500] But, I mean, the population's only getting it bigger and bigger and bigger, you know, especially now.

[1501] I know that when we could run dogs, when hunters could run dogs on killing bears, there was a quota that the state would put on amount of bear kills.

[1502] Once that quota was hit through successful tags, they turned the season off.

[1503] and every year we would hit that quota we haven't hit that quota since they stopped the bear hunting or sorry, allowing dogs to be hunted which has been years now and I've heard they get like half of it even so it's like the population's just compounding it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger and it's going to continue that way too because the people that are making the votes are all city dwellers I mean the amount of people that live in the cities whether it's the Bay Area or in Los Angeles, it's like, you know, most of the population of the state.

[1504] But the crazy thing is when you make that drive from Los Angeles up to San Francisco, you pass farmers.

[1505] It's all rural.

[1506] You all have Trump signs up.

[1507] It's kind of weird, right?

[1508] It's like, is this really California?

[1509] Like, what is this?

[1510] It's crazy.

[1511] And then when you get up in your area, like Sacramento, man, there's a lot of hunting and fishing going on up there.

[1512] People don't know.

[1513] Sac North, it's almost like a, sorry, Sac North is almost like a different state.

[1514] It's crazy, but, yeah, man, I don't know, I don't know if things are ever going to change for the state as far as that goes.

[1515] I mean, if there's not better game management, like our deer herd, California's deer herd is struggling big time.

[1516] We can't kill mountain lines, obviously.

[1517] That's another predator that's just compounding.

[1518] It's just continuing to get better than.

[1519] No management at all.

[1520] Unless they kill pets and they get a depredation permit and then all the wildlife nuts, fucking throw.

[1521] threaten these people.

[1522] And now they've even made some, like I said, my buddy, I have a buddy that's a county trapper, and they've made it even harder now to take out problem animals.

[1523] So like a mountain line, say it comes in and kills a horse or whatever.

[1524] Like it used to be, he killed my animal, I'll get a depredation permit.

[1525] We either see it, we could kill it, or we set a trap, catch it, kill it.

[1526] Now it's like, I think there's like three strikes.

[1527] Like it has to kill three times.

[1528] It's like a felon.

[1529] It's fucking crazy, dude.

[1530] My buddy's just like, this is absolutely insane.

[1531] And it's not based, again, on sound wildlife management principles.

[1532] We're wildlife biologists.

[1533] It's people that don't understand what they're managing.

[1534] It's really, it's like having nuclear waste managed by stand -up comedians.

[1535] You know what I mean?

[1536] It's like, you don't know what you're doing?

[1537] Like, why are you doing this?

[1538] They really don't know what they're doing.

[1539] And, you know, in San Francisco, where they've killed a bunch of mountain lines that have killed people's pets and stuff.

[1540] One of the things I've found when they do necropsies on them, and they check out their guts, they find out what they've been eating.

[1541] It's mostly dogs.

[1542] They're eating like 50 % pets.

[1543] Yeah.

[1544] It's crazy.

[1545] I mean, I don't know if we're ever going to do anything about it, though.

[1546] That's the scary thing.

[1547] Bro, if a mountain lion ever killed Marshall, I would become the mountain lion punisher.

[1548] I would fucking decide that I would dedicate my life to killing those cunts.

[1549] Oh, yeah.

[1550] I fucking, I already had one dog get killed by Mountline in Colorado.

[1551] No way.

[1552] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1553] Oh.

[1554] Yeah, back in 2008 or nine, 2009, I guess it was.

[1555] No way.

[1556] Yeah.

[1557] Just in your backyard?

[1558] Yep.

[1559] Oh, yeah.

[1560] Dude.

[1561] Bro, they're fucking nasty cunts.

[1562] Mm -hmm.

[1563] They're nasty.

[1564] I've seen videos online of, yeah, like, I think they're like home cameras, like security cameras that catch it, you know?

[1565] It's kind of crazy, yeah.

[1566] They kill a lot of dogs.

[1567] I had, um, and this happens all.

[1568] all the time, you know, I'd go and ask permission landowners, and, you know, usually it's these kind of, sometimes it's an older lady, and this one in particular was an older lady.

[1569] She had two little, like, white, fluffy dogs, and I asked if I could hunt on her property, and she told me no, and so I would just hunt the property next year.

[1570] I was just trying to expand the property that I could hunt, and so I'd be out there, and this probably was like months later.

[1571] She comes up to me, I was out there scouting some deer.

[1572] And she's like, you know, I'd really like it if you saw these coyotes and shot them.

[1573] One of them, I watched them pull my dog away and basically killed it.

[1574] It was one of her little white fluffy dogs.

[1575] And it's like, man, it sucks that that's what it takes for a lot of these people, like something traumatic in your life to be taken away for you to understand, like, the benefit of doing this, you know?

[1576] Like if I was able to hunt deer in your property, if you wanted me to kill coyotes, I would take care of them for you, you know?

[1577] Right.

[1578] I'd keep the population down.

[1579] But it's like, obviously I did it.

[1580] I was trying to help her out after that.

[1581] But it's like, you know, I don't know.

[1582] To keep population the coyotes down is a fucking full -time job, son.

[1583] I've heard something crazy.

[1584] And I don't know how true this is, but it's almost like, what was it?

[1585] Like if you kill coyotes in an area and you bring the population down to a certain amount, they know that.

[1586] and they can, they re -breed to like, and like double in size or like.

[1587] It's 100 % true.

[1588] Yeah.

[1589] How crazy is that.

[1590] Yeah, there's a great book called Coyote America.

[1591] I think that's where I heard.

[1592] Guy named Dan Flores, who's been on the podcast before.

[1593] He's a brilliant guy who's, so I believe he's a wildlife historian and he was a professor.

[1594] He was actually one of Ronella's professors while he was in college.

[1595] And what happens is when coyotes yell at night, it's basically a role.

[1596] call they're like and they try to find out where everybody is and when one of the coyotes turns up missing the females have more pups so all the females breed more and that's one of the reasons why coyotes are everywhere and apparently it was a strategy for coyotes to um to survive with gray wolves because gray wolves pick them down coyotes and kill them and so because of this the coyotes had to figure out how to expand their range to get away from the gray wolves and how to breed more more prolifically every time they got attacked by wolves gotcha that makes sense it's a pretty wild shit man because the coyotes were smarter than the wolves because when they figured out how to kill off the wolves and what they would do is they would they would shoot a horse and then fill it up with shrychnine and like pump its veins with stricknine and then leave it there for the wolves and the wolves would eat it and die.

[1597] But the coyote's like, eh, not today, bitch.

[1598] Yeah.

[1599] And the coyotes kept expanding.

[1600] So now coyotes are in every single state in every single city in the country.

[1601] And a hundred years ago, they were only in the West.

[1602] Really?

[1603] Yeah, they were only in the West.

[1604] I mean, this is a relatively short period of time.

[1605] They've expanded through the entire state.

[1606] It's crazy.

[1607] They're in fucking Manhattan.

[1608] They really are.

[1609] What?

[1610] You never seen it?

[1611] No. There's videos of coyotes.

[1612] In Coyotes in Central Park.

[1613] That's nuts.

[1614] Pull that shit up because you need to see this because it's so bananas.

[1615] They're essentially a small wolf is what they are, which is why the red wolf and coyotes have bred in some parts of the south and I think the southeast.

[1616] And they've developed these hybrids that they call coy wolves.

[1617] So it's like a larger coyote.

[1618] And I've seen like in New Mexico they have Mexican wolves, but they basically look like a big coyote.

[1619] but I think that's another kind of subspecies of it Well I mean a coyote is a wolf That's the thing that a lot of folks don't know It is a wolf It's just a small wolf But a really fucking clever one They're so smart sneaky And all these Native Americans have these Look at this These motherfuckers In, look at it In Manhattan Fuck out of here Central Park coyote That's a healthy looking coyote Check out this coyote stalking his way Through Central Park Or its way wild dude look at that new york new york park officials offer tips after coyote siding in central park bro they're everywhere they're literally everywhere they're in the bronx they've seen them in abandoned buildings the bronx yeah the fuck he darted it look yeah it's got a darting it oh wow they jabbed them man that's crazy I had no idea they're probably tranking them trying to capture them wild shit dude yeah yeah it's crazy you know and people that just don't understand hunting or population control they get so pissed off it's predators it's a predator thing bears I mean you see these you know I have buddies that go out and do these coyote derbies basically we're in the area they'll bring a bunch of people in and everybody tries to kill as many coyotes as they can and it's very extreme I get that But it's like in an area, you know, that's very highly populated with coyotes.

[1620] It's something that can help control the population very quick, you know.

[1621] And it's something that needs to be done.

[1622] Yeah.

[1623] If you want to keep your dogs alive and, you know, you want healthy populations of deer and a lot of other wildlife, like, you can't have an overpopulation of anything.

[1624] And the only thing that balances that out other than nature itself and the cycle of nature itself when it bounces out is a cycle of starvation and disease.

[1625] which it's not good no not good at all for anything for anybody yeah but that's how nature balances it out the only other solution is wildlife management and that's where wildlife biologists do an accurate assessment a survey of the area they find out what the populations are and they figure out how many of each animal that they can pull from it so people don't understand like when you're talking about getting a tag for moose yeah it's not easy it's not like anybody could just go to alaska and shoot a moose no it's fucking and very difficult.

[1626] Like some animals, like big horn sheep, like good luck getting a tack for them, right?

[1627] Oh, yeah.

[1628] I got lucky on one of those two.

[1629] You're lucky dude.

[1630] No, dude, just, I mean, here's an example.

[1631] You were talking about the moose.

[1632] I have a story of, you know, I got the rack, you know, all cleaned up and everything.

[1633] I'm driving at home for my taxidermist.

[1634] And this Prius rolls up.

[1635] And I'm not making that up because it's a, it really was a Prius.

[1636] And they roll up, and it's this big old fat chick.

[1637] She's got, like, different colors in her hair.

[1638] And I'm guessing it's her husband or boyfriend driving.

[1639] And I'm just minding my business in the slow lane, just wanting to get home.

[1640] You know, I don't want my nothing.

[1641] I want, you know, obviously, if I could have enclosed the whole thing, I would have just because I know it pisses people off in California.

[1642] And I'm driving.

[1643] And this lady comes rolling up next to me, flipping me the bird, and she's cussing and yelling, and they whizzed past me. I'm just like, geez.

[1644] And so we start coming up on traffic, basically to where I'm trying to slow down because I don't want to get into it with this chick.

[1645] I know what she's trying to do.

[1646] And then all of a sudden they slow down too.

[1647] And I see her window start rolling down.

[1648] She's got a big gulp that's like fucking giant, you know.

[1649] And I'm like, here we go.

[1650] She slows down, you know, enough to get right next to me, tosses it and just hits my windshield.

[1651] Really?

[1652] Just throws her big gulp on my truck and then they speed off.

[1653] I'm just like, you, bitch.

[1654] Yeah.

[1655] But it's like, you know, you don't know anything about that, you know?

[1656] Like you just said, like that - Do you think that fatso only eats vegetables?

[1657] Yeah, not a chance.

[1658] I only eat hot dogs.

[1659] Yeah, she probably just got...

[1660] They're from a hot dog factory.

[1661] Dude, it's insane when I get comments like that.

[1662] Why don't you just go to the store and buy your meat like everybody else and stop killing these animals?

[1663] And it's like, is that real?

[1664] Yeah.

[1665] Like, do you really believe that?

[1666] Like, you really truly believe that?

[1667] leave that and it's like it is the dumbest fucking argument of all time and you know who will have that argument more is people that live in other countries that don't hunt at all yes that's where I notice a lot of it comes from weird man where they just don't have any history of hunting they just think you're a cruel person meanwhile they're eating beef every day oh yeah strange man it's it's it's crazy man and I try I try to inform I mean if if they're willing to listen a lot of the times they're not you know they just like they don't care what the hell you say it doesn't matter if make sense or not they're just like fuck you but if they're willing to learn i'll sit there and try and inform someone but dude it's crazy the ignorance and just stupidity like that some people have and will not will not listen to anything you try to say to not only that they are never going to get an animal who lives a better life than like a wild deer that you hunt if you if you're eating meat and you're eating meat even from like the best ranch you're not eating anything wild No. I mean, there's nothing wrong with ranchers.

[1668] I'm not opposed to ranching.

[1669] But if you're eating, you're eating a wild elk that you hunted and killed yourself, there's no better meat on planet Earth.

[1670] I agree, man. And no better for you and no more ethical.

[1671] Because there's not a single one of them that dies of old age.

[1672] It's never going to happen.

[1673] I agree.

[1674] It's not like they're not regulated.

[1675] Like, they know what the fuck they're doing.

[1676] Yeah.

[1677] You know, like, that's the thing.

[1678] Like, I think these people just assume that we're, going i i i envision it like us in a back of a truck with an automatic weapon drinking some beers you know blasting some loud music and just mowing everything down like i well i think that's what they don't let them see texas pig hunting yeah i know these fucking helicopters out of yeah it's wild oh it's crazy but texas is just i mean obviously the pig population is bananas and it's like there's not a lot of other options you can try and poison them, but you're going to poison everything else in the ecosystem.

[1679] You can try and trap them, but pigs aren't stupid.

[1680] You might catch one or two, but the other ones see it happen, and then after a while they're like, fuck you, I'm not going in that trap.

[1681] And it's like, so what else do you do?

[1682] The thing is the people that are upset about are not the ranchers that are losing literally millions of dollars in crops every year.

[1683] Those people, they're fucking furious about these pigs.

[1684] But it's such a weird animal.

[1685] It's like an invasive species.

[1686] And they breed all year.

[1687] around crazy like we we we came to Texas years ago and we we did a pig hunt and it was um we were spot and stuck right before evening we killed we killed a pig what was it like we killed one of the pigs and one of them ended up being like a really small pig maybe like a 40 or 50 pounder you know which is um pig that stands about that high and we're like hey let's let's clean this pig and we'll put this on the smoker and we'll let it smoke all day tomorrow and we'll have it for dinner tomorrow So when we cleaned it, dude, this thing already had piglets.

[1688] Like it was already breeding as a 40 -50 -pound pig.

[1689] Yeah, at six months old, they're viable.

[1690] It's crazy, man. I mean, I think there was probably already eight to ten in it, you know?

[1691] And then within, you know, you said it was six months, those ones are already breeding again.

[1692] Each one's having, you know, when you were from six to 15.

[1693] And then it's just like wildfire.

[1694] Just keeps spreading.

[1695] Somebody told me there was a new road that opened up somewhere in Texas.

[1696] And the night the road opened, they had four.

[1697] 40 car accidents.

[1698] Because of pigs?

[1699] Because of pigs?

[1700] Because of pigs?

[1701] Oh, no way.

[1702] Because the pigs had been using the area.

[1703] Just travel.

[1704] Just running back and forth.

[1705] People just drive and bam.

[1706] Shit.

[1707] No way.

[1708] 40 car accidents.

[1709] Put some hogwire, man. Holy shit.

[1710] Yeah, I mean, just the sheer numbers in this state are really crazy.

[1711] And they're delicious.

[1712] They are.

[1713] I love eating.

[1714] It's crazy.

[1715] It's very good.

[1716] Like I said, that's one of the things that we do for fins and feathers.

[1717] And it's, we guide people.

[1718] Well, I will personally at least go get one, at least one a year and live off that.

[1719] But I love wild pig.

[1720] I love the chops.

[1721] I mean, we'll do ground meat.

[1722] And, you know, I do pretty much anything you do with ground beef, but I'll do it with ground pork.

[1723] I love it, man. It's good.

[1724] And it's a robust flavor, too.

[1725] It's a dark meat.

[1726] That's the other thing.

[1727] Like, if you look at pork, like domestic pork, it's like a really pale flesh, but wild pork.

[1728] It's almost red.

[1729] Mm -hmm.

[1730] Yeah.

[1731] Yeah.

[1732] And that's good, man. And I do a lot of cooking videos.

[1733] I have a YouTube channel.

[1734] We do, I basically film all my hunts.

[1735] I try to do, like, my point of view from everything, so I do a lot of vlogging and stuff.

[1736] But my wife went and killed her very first big game animal with me, and it was a wild boar on that ranch.

[1737] And like I said earlier, there's tons of wild mulberry trees all over the place.

[1738] So she got this boar, and then we went and picked a bunch of the wild mulberries.

[1739] And I did like this, I smoked, I did the whole video if anyone ever wants to see it.

[1740] but I smoked the whole, like, bone -in backstrap, like the loin, and then I did, like, a mulberry reduction on it from those mulberries from the ranch.

[1741] What you're fancy, man?

[1742] Yeah, it was fucking good, dude.

[1743] There it is here.

[1744] Oh, yeah, there you go.

[1745] I don't think I've ever had mulberries.

[1746] What a mulberry taste of fun.

[1747] They're so sweet.

[1748] Really?

[1749] That's hands -down my favorite berry.

[1750] Have you ever had a mulberry, Jamie?

[1751] When these ones are ripe?

[1752] I probably had one, but I couldn't recall it.

[1753] There's the bore That's a good size bore Oh yeah I forgot about that We had a lion stalking in on us When we were stocking in on that bore Really?

[1754] Yeah I forgot about that one earlier When you asked That's it So my This was Sunday morning We're like Stalking in on these pigs And I look behind us And I'm like What the fuck is that Like 50 yards behind us This cat This cat was just cruising And I don't know if he was I don't know if he was chasing That buck earlier but dude it just started like just cruising there's so many of them in California when I was at Tahoe in Ranch they had a trail cam on one of their ponds and they found 16 different mountain lines on the trail cam oh that's what happens when you have a ranch a large ranch with no people yeah right and a large deer pig and they have cows there too they run cows there too and elk and And mountain lions unchecked.

[1755] There's nothing they can do about it.

[1756] It sucks, man. It's crazy.

[1757] But it's just a really bad wildlife management practice.

[1758] I mean, people think that, like, somehow another of these cats are endangered or something.

[1759] They're not at all.

[1760] Yeah, not at all.

[1761] Especially not in those rural areas.

[1762] There's a lot of them, man. When did you start this peak refuel company?

[1763] So this is...

[1764] Isn't it great stuff, dude?

[1765] It's a really good company.

[1766] It's really good.

[1767] I appreciate it, man. Yeah, we...

[1768] Last year was our first Mendez Mill launch.

[1769] So I got to create, this is like super cool.

[1770] Seth and Bart, you know, these guys go above and beyond with this stuff.

[1771] And we got to do, basically I created two game meat recipes.

[1772] We did elk and we did a bison last year.

[1773] And I create, like in my kitchen come up with these recipes.

[1774] I absolutely love cooking, by the way.

[1775] And then we go back and forth, turning it into a freeze -dried meal.

[1776] And so that was the two meals that we did last year.

[1777] And then this year, we added another one of mine, which is a venison meal.

[1778] There it is right there.

[1779] Boom.

[1780] That middle one.

[1781] Ack country casserole, elk ragu pasta and bison ranch mashers.

[1782] And what is the difference between, like, food that's dehydrated versus freeze -dried?

[1783] Is it a taste thing?

[1784] Is it a nutrition thing?

[1785] So it's the way that it's done.

[1786] But obviously dehydrating, you're basically sucking all the moisture, like the liquid out of it.

[1787] Where freeze -drying, you're not doing that.

[1788] And so when you rehydrate something that's freeze -dried, like, dehydrated stuff typically gets really mushy when you put water back into it and so freeze drying doesn't do that you know you still have um all the the right textures the right um basically all the right flavors too and another thing that we do that's different is basically like you you got a mountain house company that's obviously been around for a long time and that's like something i grew up using that's really all there was back then um but they're a lot of their stuff basically they when they make it, they put all the ingredients in separate, you know, or they're, you know, it's not, a lot of these other companies do that same thing.

[1789] It's not like us where we have like a giant, basically, like a pot.

[1790] We cook the entire recipe and make it taste exactly like it's supposed to and then dehydrate that.

[1791] A freeze dry.

[1792] Or sorry, freeze dry that into our meals.

[1793] So it's not like we're doing all the different ingredients and then just adding them into a bag, shake it up, and there you go.

[1794] Is it a more time consuming process?

[1795] is it's more time consuming but what's great about peak refuel is we have the the facility first of all and we have all the giant machinery that a lot of these other companies especially like the kind of the smaller companies that are doing these other game meets you know they can only do a handful at a time and so it's hard for them to keep in inventory and stock where we have basically the giant stuff we can pump out higher numbers of it so we can keep up inventory but also you know it's just for we We basically have the team that can keep up on top of being able to produce enough for everybody to keep it in their backpacks.

[1796] How long you've been doing this for?

[1797] Last year was our first year.

[1798] Yeah.

[1799] So was your first year or the company's for it?

[1800] It was peak refuel?

[1801] Peaks been around.

[1802] So I'm not an actual owner of the company.

[1803] You just work with them.

[1804] I work with them.

[1805] So this is a company that I teamed up with last year.

[1806] It's kind of a cool story.

[1807] So they haven't been around long.

[1808] I think they've been around, I want to say, three years, four years now.

[1809] I was one of their very first customers ever Without knowing that obviously But I drew a tag here in Northern California Or in Northern California So I was going to do a backcountry hunt With a buddy of mine And he had heard about this company Because obviously like I said The Mountain House stuff That's all we've ever used But dude that's the fucks my stomach up Like it's great if you like to fart Yeah dude it's the worst And so I'm like I don't want to be living Alfredo man Good luck Anything downwind of you You just start a stampede It's horrible It's so bad And even after the hunt For like a week I don't shit right Like it's just bad And so I'm like Dude I don't really want to live off this stuff Like I'm gonna look into just making my own stuff And he's like dude check out peak refuel He's like this stuff It's all real ingredients They do it right It's not like a ton of like preservatives It's not like all this nasty shit So I went on the website And ended up buying a bunch of their stuff For that hunt and it's funny because Seth and Bart said that was like in the beginning of them where they would just sit there like basically waiting for orders to come through and Seth who's the owner is like a big UFC fan and he's sitting there and it's like bling and order comes through and he's like holy shit Chad Mendes just ordered some of our meals and like freaked out you know and so he ended up writing a handwritten letter on and sending it with my stuff and that's kind of how we ended up like knowing each other and figuring out you know and so he ended up writing a handwritten letter on and sending it with my stuff and that's kind of how we ended up like knowing each other and figuring each other out and dude it was cool i i contact we contacted each other and became like super good buds right off the bat like they're just great people man they're based out of utah hard workers they're you know they they have like amazing families it's just been something that i feel honored to be a part of and you know for me to be able to basically create my own recipes and pump them out there to people for people to try and their game meets you know it's kind of something that's unique you're not really seeing that very often um it's it's just been cool man it's been cool to be a part of that's awesome and how many different varieties do they have they have a lot of different stuff they yeah the peak peak lineup is it's a bunch of different meals and then i just have my three as of right now so they have snacks too or just they do and they're and we're actually working on some stuff for next year for some mendes snacks and stuff i have some cool ideas um for come yep they just came out with with the sweets brownie bites cookie bites yeah when you know for people that don't know when folks go hunting or camping or any of that stuff where you're you're trying to pack as lightly as possible it saves you so much weight to buy freeze -dried things like that and and keep them in your pack and you know you could genuinely keep a whole week's worth of food in your bag and you know if you have a large backpack yeah and that's what we did like i did a doll sheet hunting Alaska last year and we were there for 10 days living out of our backpack and that's you know I lived off all my peak stuff and uh basically you know you can just fold them up you have your days ration like here's Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday or whatever it is and uh you know it's it's nice to know you can bust your ass all day and all these hikes you're just kind of snacking and then you have your peak meal at the end of the day which is like your thousand calorie kicking the pants like that's where all your energy is going to come from for recovery from today and you know my energy for work and hiking and traveling tomorrow so man it was it's nice having that stuff for sure because they don't I mean they weigh just a couple ounces each yeah it's incredible right when you think about the amount of calories from just a couple ounces and you add water to it just very minimal water most of them are like a cup to a cup and a half of water which is nice because a lot of the other meals like it requires a lot more which in the backcountry water is sacred man there's some spots you get into where there isn't any water so you really have to ration what you have and so you know only needing a cup of water to rehydrate an entire dinner or basically it's your full day's meal um it's pretty special so yeah just you basically we have a jet boil you know it's a little contraption that basically boils that water real quick within like a minute or two and you just pour it in there mix it up seal it up and set for like 10, 15 minutes and mix it, and it's amazing food right there.

[1810] Super easy, convenient, ready to go.

[1811] How many of your hunts are you doing rifle versus bow?

[1812] Oh, man. I mean, it really varies year to year.

[1813] I'd say probably 50 -50.

[1814] Some years more archery, some years more rifle.

[1815] This year, it's probably going to be, it'll probably be close to 50 -50, which sucks.

[1816] It doesn't suck, but this fight now in October, all my fall, basically all my fall hunts are wiped out.

[1817] I got to buckle down and I had to cancel quite a few hunts.

[1818] That's got to be kind of a weird, bittersweet thing for you, right?

[1819] It is, man, because, I mean, hunting has been, it's been my true passion and my love for so long.

[1820] Like, since I was a little kid, my dad got me into it.

[1821] And, you know, every September I'm out chasing bull elk with a bow.

[1822] And this is going to be the first year in a long time where I'm sitting back.

[1823] just watching all my buddies get out there and do it and not being able to do it.

[1824] But me and Dillishaw actually have a hunt in October, like right after my fight.

[1825] Fingers crossed, nothing breaks hand -wise.

[1826] But we're going to go to Colorado and we have a mule deer elk hunt.

[1827] Oh, nice.

[1828] Right after.

[1829] So that'll be mule deer in the rut?

[1830] Yep, yep.

[1831] Second season, which I think this year, Colorado, the whole season shifted.

[1832] So I think it goes right there at the end of October and in that first week in November.

[1833] So that should be, should be if they're not in full ret, which they probably won't be in full rep, but they'll be acting ready.

[1834] Is Colorado doing things differently as far as like over -the -counter tags?

[1835] I had heard that they're changing some of their over -the -counter archery tags.

[1836] I haven't heard, but I mean, stuff changes in every stay every damn year, I feel like, you know.

[1837] But what were, what did you hear?

[1838] We're making it more difficult to get tags that they're going to have draws instead of.

[1839] of just playing over the counter.

[1840] Yeah, I think a lot of areas, they probably would do that, which, you know, it's one of those things.

[1841] It's like it helps in a lot of ways, but it also sucks in a lot of ways.

[1842] I think the pandemic really opened up a lot of people's eyes to the possibility that there might come a time where you don't have any food at all.

[1843] And, like, how do you get food if you don't know how to hunt?

[1844] And a lot of people are like, you know what?

[1845] I should probably learn how to hunt.

[1846] So obviously gun sales went through the roof.

[1847] Oh, yeah.

[1848] of people also took up archery and started, you know, bow hunting for the first time.

[1849] I think a lot of guys like you and Cam and Dudley, you know, you've really shown such a positive light on archery hunting and hunting in general.

[1850] I think, I mean, so another business is fins and feathers.

[1851] That's the hunting and fishing.

[1852] I basically guide people.

[1853] Which is pretty badass because you literally go on a hunt with you.

[1854] Yeah, it's so much fun, man. It's been awesome being able to like share that passion and just teach people.

[1855] But what I was going to say is what you just said is last year with COVID, that was our best year we've ever had with fins and feathers.

[1856] We had more people interested in hunting and going hunting and fishing last year than we ever have.

[1857] Did you test them at all?

[1858] No. You just said, fuck it.

[1859] Fuck it, man. Let's go.

[1860] Yeah, let's do it.

[1861] But yeah, it was awesome.

[1862] And we had a ton of people that had never hunted before.

[1863] And they're like, look, we watch meat eater all the time.

[1864] Ronella, we've been seeing Joe do a lot of this stuff.

[1865] I watched cam.

[1866] I've always wanted to get into archery hunting or hunting in general.

[1867] And I think it's basically because people were starting to realize like, fuck, if shit hits the fan, I need to know how to hunt.

[1868] I need to know how to go out and provide for myself.

[1869] And we had so many first -time hunters last year that booked with us.

[1870] And it was pretty damn cool to see, you know, these people that are complete city slickers coming out there, you know.

[1871] And we had guys show up in like tennis shoes to go hunting.

[1872] I'm like, dude, you should have right.

[1873] I told you to bring boots, but, you know, and, you know.

[1874] Did you have to teach them how to shoot everything?

[1875] Take them to a range.

[1876] How did you do it?

[1877] I guided them a bit beforehand, told them what they needed to do, get out there, cite your gun in at 100, make sure you're comfortable shooting out probably two or 300, you know, and then when they show up, we take them out.

[1878] I make sure that everything's dialed and make sure they're doing what they need to do.

[1879] But they've all taken their hunter safety course, so they've gone through that.

[1880] But then basically just, you know, hold their hand throughout the whole hunt.

[1881] you know and kind of basically just guide them you know leading the way like here's an example it was a pretty cool example we had a kid a young kid that booked with us last year on our cow elk hunt up in Oregon and he was a huge fan of Ronella's and loved you know the meat eater podcast and and the show and he wanted uh it was a cowl hunt he wanted the entire like kept all the organs and but you know it was his first time going out hunting and first morning I get him on two cows, you know, 150 yards just standing there across the canyon broadside.

[1882] And I get him on the shooting sticks and he's, you know, never, ever been in the situation in his life.

[1883] And I look over and he's just like, shaking like a leave.

[1884] He's like, not even like, he didn't shoot, obviously.

[1885] He was just like, we sat there for like five minutes and they're staring at this.

[1886] And he's like, just heart beating out of his chest.

[1887] And, you know, and I forgot, I guess at that point, I kind of forgot what that feeling feels like i still get excited on hunts but i haven't been that excited on anything since probably i was a kid you know and i'm just like thinking back like god i kind of missed that had you ever done anything that made him real nervous before like that i didn't ask that but it seemed like probably not like he was a pretty you know pretty fragile looking kid you know just a young guy but that's a big thing to do for your first really nerve -racking experience to pull the trigger and end the life of an animal and then a hundred percent yeah and he'd i mean even when he killed it was a very emotional thing he was you know he ended up getting one a couple days later but um yeah it was a pretty emotional thing for him and you know very how did you get him to calm down for the the hunt a couple days later man we had so many missed opportunities i'm sure dude i got him a whole this was probably opportunity number three or four we pop up over this rise and there's about 40 head of elk, about 20 yards from us.

[1888] No joke.

[1889] I could have thrown a rock and hit one.

[1890] And I'm like, dude, there's no time for shooting sticks.

[1891] Pick that cow that's all the way to the right, just pull up and shoot.

[1892] And they're just standing.

[1893] They're staring at us.

[1894] Like getting ready to bolt, but 20 yards.

[1895] And so he pulls up over the rise and shoots and misses.

[1896] And they run out about, you know, 20 yards.

[1897] And they're basically trying to jump this barbed wire fence to get down into the draw.

[1898] and when there's that many head of elk it becomes like a traffic jam you know it's like they're all having to take their turn to get over so there's a couple in the back still just standing there and I'm like dude pick one of those shoot so he doesn't even jack a bullet in there I have to like reload the gun because he's just like pulls up again shoots misses oh no I jack another one in it's his last round in the gun and shoots a miss it we empty the gun he misses doesn't get an elk on that one and that whole herd runs down and disappears.

[1899] And so, you know, I just had to talk to him, you know, like, hey, man, this is part of hunting, especially because it's your first time.

[1900] Like, I've been there, like, don't worry about it.

[1901] And he's getting bummed, you know, because, you know, you only get so many opportunities on a hunt, and I want him to go home with something, but we're kind of getting down towards, I think he ended up killing on the last day.

[1902] So we're getting down to the wire here.

[1903] And finally we found one that was bedded up, and we, like, came in and just sat on it for like an hour before it finally got up and it fed out into a clearing and he was sitting and I put the tripod up and he got a very very steady shot and made a perfect shot and dropped it oh well that's a very big change for him right a big confidence booster I'm sure yeah once he's done it and experienced it and knows what it's like mm -hmm it's so hard for people man it's so hard it is man it's a difficult thing it's like yeah the fact that you're taking a life of something is hard in itself and then if you've never been like an athlete or somebody that's been put in that moment of truth situation where you have nerves and you have to figure out with your mind going into that red zone like calm the fuck down you know what it takes for you to get out of that red zone and get into that calm state right if you don't know how to do that you're just like what do I do what is this you know yeah it's complete chaos and so you know you know it's it's cool being able to for me to like kind of teach a lot of these people that have never done it before and just kind of you know get them through that situation and then gain that confidence have them gain that confidence after the fact and and then not only that now you have all kinds of amazing meat to feed your friends your family and live off for the rest of the year like how cool is that have you had guys do it for their first time and then come back again and become more seasoned he's one of them he's coming back he booked we have a moose a moose hunt up in uh Newfoundland this year.

[1904] Oh, wow.

[1905] And he's going to go do that with us.

[1906] That's supposed to be a great place to hunt moose.

[1907] Johnny Cash hunted moose up there.

[1908] I didn't even know that.

[1909] There's a cool picture of Johnny Cash from like, I want to say it was like early 60s.

[1910] Like dressed like normal.

[1911] No way.

[1912] We're wearing like farmer clothes with a flannel.

[1913] Yeah.

[1914] Oh, yeah.

[1915] Look at that fucking.

[1916] Dude, that is awesome.

[1917] Radio he's got.

[1918] He's got his collar popped.

[1919] Yeah, he does.

[1920] He's got his collar popped.

[1921] get a jean jacket on it looks like hunting moose in newfoundland i'm going to have to do that yeah apparently it's a very moose rich environment right is that the story about up there now how hard is it going to be to get up there so the situation right now is if everybody's vaccinated um so luckily we we only have uh four clients three of the guys are from Canada okay so they're good and they're all vaccinated anyways and then this guy was vaccinated so basically just to go do the hunt.

[1922] Wow.

[1923] Some dedication right there.

[1924] Yeah, and what about you?

[1925] Do you have to fly in and do you have to quarantine or test or anything like that?

[1926] I'm actually not going on that one.

[1927] So that one is basically we're working on.

[1928] I think Scotty Lago, I don't know if you know who that is.

[1929] He's a pro snowboarder.

[1930] Oh, okay.

[1931] He's going to be our guy on that one to go out there and hang with everyone and hunt.

[1932] Oh, interesting.

[1933] So you have other guys that work for you as guides as well.

[1934] How many guides do you have that you work with?

[1935] And these guys, like the, we call them the pro -staff guys.

[1936] They're basically just, you know, different UFC fighters.

[1937] We have actors, pro -ball players, Scotty snowboarders, kind of a just mix of celebrities, if you will, that basically we subcontract guides that already have stuff up and running.

[1938] So there's going to be professional guides they're guiding.

[1939] And then we just send our group and our pro -staff guy to go out there and hunt with them and they hang out, shoot the shit around camp.

[1940] um you know basically the idea with fins and feathers was creating that camaraderie that you don't really get anywhere else except for hunt camp you know you've been there you've seen it you felt it you know you sitting around a campfire at night whether you're you know someone's singing playing a guitar i've had that happen where you know everyone's kind of having some drinks hanging out telling stories like you can't really get that anywhere else man you go through the highs and the lows of the hunt you know and you can go to an autograph signing, meet these guys, shake their hand, maybe take a picture, and then that's pretty much it.

[1941] Is it a weird thing, though, when you go take a guy out of the woods that you don't know?

[1942] You know, like, you don't know who's going to fall apart.

[1943] You don't know who's going to be in shape.

[1944] You don't know who can't handle pressure.

[1945] And that, I mean, that happens, you know.

[1946] As far as having somebody not be like a cool dude, we've had, thank God, we launched this back in 2015, we haven't had anybody, like, really weird.

[1947] That was always my concern.

[1948] and have something like wake up in the middle of night some fucking crazy person everyone's been cool that way but yeah um but yeah i mean we've had guys fall apart on hunts like i've there's been pig hunts where we have guys that are you know a little bit overweight or a lot of bit overweight and it's tough for them to get to certain places and yeah they we see animals and they're like i'm sorry dude i just can't i can't do that you know and it's i think i think it's a good thing for these guys though because it's a slap in the face.

[1949] It's like, that really shows you, you know, in that moment, like, fuck, I've got to change my life.

[1950] You know, there's things I need to do different because this is ridiculous.

[1951] Like, I'm not going to go be a successful hunter and fill my freezer because I can't physically get to the damn thing, you know?

[1952] So I think he ended up getting one later, but he even said after, he's like, man, this is definitely eye -opening for me. So I had to change some stuff.

[1953] So that's pretty cool.

[1954] Yeah, I've talked to guys who took a hunter out, like guides who took a hunter out one year.

[1955] And then, you know, the guy was just absolutely exhausted.

[1956] Then the guy comes back next year, 40 pounds lighter and realize this, like, yeah, how to make some changes.

[1957] That's one of the reasons I wanted to do fins and feathers.

[1958] Like, A, you know, it was something that I decided, like, how could I make some money doing something I absolutely love in the outdoor industry after I'm done fighting?

[1959] And so that was kind of the main thing.

[1960] but then also how do I share this passion with so many different people or teach this the people that have never had it in their life?

[1961] You know, I have tons of buddies that their dad's never hunted.

[1962] Like, there's nobody in their life that even would introduce them to it, but they're, like, excited to learn, you know, and there's a ton of clients that come in that are in that same situation.

[1963] Like, dude, I've never hunted.

[1964] I've never fished, you know, no one of my family ever did it.

[1965] I didn't know how to do it.

[1966] How do I get into it?

[1967] So I show them how to go through their hunter's safety course.

[1968] And then, you know, then they come out and hunt with us.

[1969] And I teach them like, okay, this is what stalking is.

[1970] And like, we break it down.

[1971] And, you know, after the harvest, this is how we fill dress them and get the meat all prepared and take it home.

[1972] And then what's super cool is that I get pictures all the time from these guys, like, of recipes they've created with those animals.

[1973] And, you know, it's them and their families and everyone just super happy, man. It's like so heartwarming for me to be a part of that type of journey for someone that had thought that they could never get into it, you know?

[1974] Yeah, that's fucking cool.

[1975] That's very cool.

[1976] That's very cool.

[1977] Yeah, it's an immensely satisfying thing when you can go out and get your own food.

[1978] And then when you're eating that, you're never going to forget the experience you had.

[1979] Like the difficult times you had, you know, hunting, stalking, just the physical fitness aspect of it.

[1980] I mean, that's the thing that people, a lot of people just don't know how much cardio it takes to do a mountain hunt.

[1981] Like, you have to be in some serious shape.

[1982] I remember the first time I went with Ronella, we went to Montana, and we were in the Missouri breaks, you know, and we were, you know, going through these hills and mountain ranges.

[1983] And I remember at the end of the day, you know, we had hiked for, like, fucking eight hours.

[1984] Was that the mule deer, huh?

[1985] Yeah.

[1986] And I remember, like, thinking like, holy shit.

[1987] Like, this is, I'm like, I'm glad I work out.

[1988] Like, this is crazy.

[1989] If you're a person who doesn't ever work out at all?

[1990] Like, how hard is this?

[1991] It's hard, man. It's difficult.

[1992] And then, you know, even on these elk hunt, like I'd say elk is probably one of the harder, one of the harder for sure, especially if it's a pack -in type hunt, you know, A, because it's a big animal, you harvest that thing, like you said, 15 miles back in there, it's a lot of fucking work getting that meat out, you know?

[1993] And, you know, I think that's probably the pinnacle of it.

[1994] But, yeah, mule deer hunting, you're in those types of situations you've never been in before, hiking those big -ass mountains.

[1995] Dude, it's crazy.

[1996] That doll sheep hunt we did last year.

[1997] I'd say that's probably the hardest hunt I've ever done.

[1998] We did just over 90 miles and 10 days of hiking.

[1999] Oh, God.

[2000] And we went up and over like four or five different mountain ranges.

[2001] I remember the first day we hiked to the one and we're glassing.

[2002] And a fucking doll sheep's bright white.

[2003] So you can see it on that dark open hillside like 20 miles away, you know?

[2004] Right.

[2005] And it's like, oh, there's definitely sheep over there.

[2006] We're going to have to get a closer look though.

[2007] So you see like one, two, three, four mountain ranges, and our guide's like, you see that fourth range, yeah, we're going to go up and over that by the end of this.

[2008] And me and my buddies all look at each other like, the fuck we are.

[2009] I'm not doing that shit.

[2010] Like, can we get a helicopter or something, you know?

[2011] But, you know, you break it up.

[2012] You're doing eight to 15 miles a day depending, you know.

[2013] And it's just, I mean, I remember there was days where the climb was so low.

[2014] long you're climbing and it's one of those like step kick your toe in step up step kick your toe in step up and you're doing that for like five hours straight you know you take a break every once in a while sip you know do snack whatever you do and then you're just kicking toeing up kick and tell up are you using mountaineering boots uh yeah i mean uh no no no no i mean i'm i'm using very stiff sold boots um i think that when i was using the some crispies that you know it was a very very high end basically meant for the sheep type terrain how do you know like i wear crispy's too a lot of times um how do you know what boot to choose for a hunt like that do you because if you've never done a doll sheep hunt before i basically asked around i have a bunch of buddies that have done a lot of that stuff and it's you know obviously i can do some research online but it's typical online like you can get an answer over here that's one way and then you can get an answer over here that's completely different.

[2015] So for me, it's, I wanted to, I like asking buddies that have actually been there and done it firsthand.

[2016] And so I had a bunch of buddies that had hunted in Alaska, and they kind of all steered me towards, I don't know, it was maybe like two or three different boots, and then I just basically chose one of them and went with it.

[2017] Do you have to break it in first?

[2018] I did.

[2019] I got, I got those boots probably three months, maybe two months before my hunt and was just loading up my Kuyupak.

[2020] basically crushing it daily with with a hike there's a good area close to my house that basically it's fucking straight up and straight down for like four or five miles and you hike down to the river and then you're basically hiking straight back out of this canyon and that's what i would do for training with you know obviously leading up i would start off with a lighter amount of weight and then as i got closer i was getting heavier and heavier and heavier until i think i was at like 70 or 80 pounds of my pack and that's what I was doing at the end and then I think my pack was about 55 or 60 pounds total with everything gun and everything water and that's basically what I was packing around out there so people don't know they don't know how hard it is right and I didn't fucking get one that's that's that's the you know that's that's part of the hunt you know we did over 90 miles we were back there living out of a backpack for 10 days did you get close well we saw over 150 sheep there's tons of sheep but there was a huge winter killoff uh that year of all the mature ram so for people that don't know a doll sheep ram has to be of legal age so it has to be at least eight years old and how you tell and this is the most fucked thing ever is you have to get close enough to them and count the rings uh that are on their own yeah the growth rings and it's like they have false annual false ones basically so you know basically what the guide was telling is sometimes when so basically how they get these rings is when they go through winter and food is very scarce and their body goes into basically like shock they're pretty much like so run down that all their energy source goes into staying alive so their horns stop growing and then when snow melts off and things start getting green and lush and life gets easy again they're like fuck okay and then they start growing and so that's what causes those rings every year they go through that winter they get that that ring um and this you know this is what the guide was telling us is sometimes you know the snow will start to melt off and they'll you know stuff starts blooming and they start thinking okay shit it's time to start growing again their body starts growing and then a huge winter storm will come and be like psych and just like fuck them up and so basically it'll cause those false annulay which if you don't know what you're looking at sometimes you're like oh that's definitely they ring, and guys kill sheep that are seven years old, not eight, and you're screwed, man, you're in so much, you know, they take it from you, you lose your hunting license, you get fined.

[2021] I think there's even some instances, if it's bad enough, jail time.

[2022] Like, it's, like, legit, yeah.

[2023] And so, you know, and it's not, you have, so in Alaska, you have to have a guide with you.

[2024] You can't just go out there as a non -resident hunt.

[2025] So you have to have a guide.

[2026] Your guide obviously has to know the age, and it's on you, too.

[2027] So if I listen to my guide and he's like, oh, it's definitely eight, shoot it.

[2028] And we walk up and it's seven, I'm fucked too because I listen to my guide.

[2029] I have to, like it's on me and him.

[2030] Wow.

[2031] And so it has to be eight, broomed off, meaning like the tips are broken off or a full curl.

[2032] So the tips of the horns have to come up and break the line of its mouth.

[2033] So eight and shitty horns, you still can't shoot it?

[2034] No, if it's eight, you can still shoot it.

[2035] If you can count eight rings.

[2036] So even if he has shitty genetics and it's like a half curl, but he's eight, he's legal.

[2037] Or if he's five and just great genetics and he's a full curl, he's legal.

[2038] Oh, really?

[2039] Yeah.

[2040] Or if he's busted off, they call it broomed.

[2041] And I don't know why exactly that makes him legal.

[2042] I'm guessing they figure the mature Rams are the only ones that get so long.

[2043] Well, I guess it makes sense he probably was full curl.

[2044] And what they say is it starts blocking their vision, so they bust those off.

[2045] Oh, really?

[2046] to break it down here so that now they can see because they're such an visual on rocks and huh even feeding in areas where they're eating like some of the lichen and i think they're rubbing on rocks when they're those real long rams speaking of lichen have you ever done a caribou hunt i want to me too that's definitely on the bucket that's a crazy let's go do a crazy hunt man you know i've heard just the terrain like making your way over those weird patches what do they those things where you're they're essentially like small stumps but it's like moss and in between them it's like marshy and so it's supposedly a nightmare to traverse because you're stepping on these things and everywhere you go you could jack your ankle and then if you're packing out like if you shoot a caribou and then you got to get it out of there mm -hmm yeah I've I know Rinella's done quite a few of them up there and it looks awesome it looks awesome it looks like a tough hunt for sure like it can be as far as even finding them but i've also seen hunts where they come across that migration and there's just thousands of them yeah they just catch it perfect the other thing is with alaska alaska is really interesting where you can't hunt the day you fly oh yeah that so have to fly and then like if you fly and land and then you're are there when the migration hits you're like fuck and then you have to yeah you have to literally go follow them and then again like we said traversing that stuff as a nightmare they might have moved 30 miles down the road yeah and so you have to and the huge wide open expanses where these these caribou were roaming through too yeah it looks wild yeah it's cool and i've eaten caribou and it's amazing meat too that's what i've heard yeah it's really i haven't had it but i've heard it's incredible renella did a hunt up there with tim ferris and uh a grizzly smelled their meat and started running towards them and he had to scare it off no way Yeah, it's all on video.

[2047] It's fucking wild.

[2048] Ronella's had a few grizzly encounters on video.

[2049] Two on video where they had to scare him off with guns.

[2050] And then, of course, the one on a Fognac Island where they didn't capture it on video because they were actually eating lunch when the bear bum rushed them.

[2051] Dude, that's crazy.

[2052] He's been around so many.

[2053] We saw a couple up there on that sheep hunt.

[2054] I think we saw two grizzlies and a big black bear, but they were way the fuck away.

[2055] Thank God.

[2056] They're a strange thing to behold, right?

[2057] They're huge.

[2058] They're so big.

[2059] I can't imagine one of those things like on top of you.

[2060] Like you're not doing anything.

[2061] You're not doing anything to that.

[2062] No. You're screwed.

[2063] No. And, you know, and it's my friend Clay Newcomb, he's been on the podcast before.

[2064] He put out a video recently on a bear defense, whether or not you should have bear spray or a pistol.

[2065] And it's just like.

[2066] I've heard both work and I've heard instances where neither work.

[2067] Uh -huh.

[2068] It's like, what do you do?

[2069] And again, like, what's the caliber?

[2070] Some guys say a 9 millimeter actually penetrates better, and some guys say you want a 45 because you want more hit.

[2071] Like, I've heard people shooting and bullets deflecting off their heads.

[2072] Because it's so thick.

[2073] Like, oh.

[2074] No thanks.

[2075] Such a crazy way to go.

[2076] A lady got killed recently who was a biker.

[2077] I think somebody was a cyclist.

[2078] Yeah.

[2079] Yeah, very, I believe it was a lady.

[2080] But there's like this.

[2081] cycling path that is very popular and you know a lot of folks take this cycling path they bike mountain bike and then they stop in this one spot in camp and this bear went into her tent pulled her out and killed it yeah dude that's one of my biggest fears i think about that shit every time i'm camping it's good fear yeah i'm like scoot away from the edge of the tent when you do an archery hunt do you do you pack a gun yeah so like montana you know anywhere there's grisly mm -hmm if I and I don't know if you're supposed to but you know it's like I think if I go to a state and I know that there's tons of grizzlies and you're not supposed to I'll take the fine over getting eaten alive you know and I don't you know it's like yeah what caliber do you bring I think I I usually bring a 40 the 45 or the 40 even I've brought but dude it's like hmm I don't know it's I've heard I've heard bad things about all calibers.

[2082] Yeah.

[2083] I want to bring a missile launcher.

[2084] Yeah, seriously.

[2085] Can I just pack a rifle?

[2086] Can I have a bazooka?

[2087] They're so fucking big.

[2088] I don't think people realize how big they are until you see one.

[2089] We were in Montana with my family a few years back.

[2090] We went to this, they have like a sanctuary for grizzlies.

[2091] And you can go there and you pay and you watch these grizzlies.

[2092] I don't know if they were a problem bears that they captured.

[2093] I forget what it was.

[2094] But one of the things that they did is they gave these bears frozen watermelons so they had a frozen watermelon and just chewing on they tear it apart like it's nothing it's basically a boulder right it's a rock of ice but it's a frozen watermelon and this bear just grabs it like it's nothing man that's your skull oh my god yeah your skull is like a zit it's gonna pop it's horrific watching that thing eat the watermelon but it was such an eye opener Because I was like, oh, okay.

[2095] Because, you know, we have this idea about physical strength of anything based on our own physical strength.

[2096] So we seem, well, I guess it's stronger than me, but how much stronger?

[2097] Yeah.

[2098] Dude, an impossible to imagine level of strength.

[2099] Yeah.

[2100] That's crazy, man. Just biting right through a frozen watermelon, like it's nothing.

[2101] And that's that thing not even like angry or scared.

[2102] Yeah.

[2103] Exactly.

[2104] Relaxed.

[2105] Yeah, if you bumped into that thing and it was terrified.

[2106] and it was coming after you, that's amplified even more, you know?

[2107] That's such a fear of mine, just coming around a corner.

[2108] Like, even in Alaska, ask all my buddies, like, I'm just terrified.

[2109] I'm like, I'm going to go in the middle of the pack.

[2110] Like, you let you guys go up there, but I don't want to be the last one in line either.

[2111] Yeah.

[2112] You know?

[2113] Have you ever encountered wolves?

[2114] Yeah, yeah.

[2115] At Montana hunt, we'd, me and a buddy of mine, we had just stalked in on a big bowl that was screaming with his cows, and I closed the distance, and flung an arrow right over his back, and we hiked out that morning, just tails tucked, and we come up on this big sage flat, and there's a group of antelope, I don't know, probably 200 yards in front of us, and we just sit there and we're watching them feed, and they ended up just feeding out of view.

[2116] And we take one more step.

[2117] Well, there was a big ass wolf, like 20 yards in front of us laying under a tree in the shade that we didn't see because we were focused on the antelope.

[2118] And we take one step, and that thing jumps up and just takes off in front of us out through the wide open sage flats.

[2119] Dude, that's another thing that people don't realize how big.

[2120] I mean, I didn't know.

[2121] Like, seeing one of those things in person, you're like, holy shit.

[2122] That thing is huge.

[2123] How big do you think it was?

[2124] I mean, I would guess that thing probably 180 pounds at least.

[2125] Really?

[2126] Oh, it looked huge.

[2127] Like, bigger than any dog I've ever seen.

[2128] Wow.

[2129] It was giant.

[2130] I mean, I don't know.

[2131] Fuck, it could have been 200 pounds.

[2132] It could have been 120 pounds, but it looked giant.

[2133] Probably a little lighter than you think.

[2134] Yeah, probably.

[2135] Because they're fluffy and, you know, they have all that fur.

[2136] It's head on it.

[2137] I mean, it looked like it was like this, just like a big old dome.

[2138] But it, I mean, I'm sure it was thinking about eating some of those antelope that we came up behind them, you know.

[2139] But no, it was.

[2140] I only saw one once in Alberta, but it was at dusk.

[2141] And I just saw it run across a road.

[2142] I was like, is that a dog?

[2143] Oh, shit, that's a wolf.

[2144] It was a little too big.

[2145] to be a coyote I think I mean it might have been a coyote but I'm pretty sure it was a wolf it was a little little too big I've always had something for wolves and werewolves actually which is crazy like that movie like I grew up watching American World from London American Whirl from Paris even like but that like my mom how dare you mention the two of those I know I know it's not the same movie but I remember as a kid that always terrified me more than anything but I liked watching it I don't know it's fucking weird but like the the thought of a werewolf like that was always something that scared the shit out of me even like going in the woods at night when i'm hunting like hiking out or like that shit still scares the shit out of me not necessarily a werewolf but yeah just the thought of like a wolf or a bear but i think the thing is that wolves like coyotes we're talking about coyotes being so smart i think wolves are so smart that a lot of times people decide there's no way an animal can be this smart it must be like a person that turned into a wolf i think that's what they thought of.

[2146] I mean, that's just a thought.

[2147] But it's just so strange that this myth persists, but it doesn't persist with other animals, right?

[2148] Yeah.

[2149] Like, there's not a lot of, like, myths about a person that turns into a bear or a person that turns in, I mean, there was that one movie, Cats.

[2150] Do you remember that movie?

[2151] With David Bowie.

[2152] Yes.

[2153] See these are so green.

[2154] Remember that?

[2155] Oh, yeah.

[2156] I can see four thousand.

[2157] I always think of the labyrinth, too, with him with Bowie yeah but he had that movie was it was that lady's name Natasha Kinski is that her name really hot lady from the 1980s who was a I think might have been in the 70s fuck what was that movie from cats I remember the name cats and I think probably seen I bet if we watch it today we'd probably die laughing oh yeah it's probably super corny special effects cat people is that what it was oh cat people was that maybe I don't I type, yeah, yes.

[2158] Cat people?

[2159] Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2160] Tasha Kanski.

[2161] What a dumb name.

[2162] Malcolm McDowell's in there from Clockwork Orange?

[2163] Really?

[2164] Let me see this.

[2165] There it is.

[2166] Natasha Kinski.

[2167] Oh.

[2168] Let me see some video for this stupid movie.

[2169] Because I remember thinking at the time, it was the shit.

[2170] Because it was like this really hot lady who turns into a fucking, like, a cat.

[2171] This is a movie about crazy people who live with too many cats.

[2172] Is it 82?

[2173] Now on Blu -ray.

[2174] That was her.

[2175] Do you remember Blu -ray?

[2176] That was the day.

[2177] They still exist.

[2178] Do they?

[2179] People who have home theaters by Blu -ray.

[2180] So she backs up.

[2181] I can't.

[2182] I can't make out with you because I'm a fucking cat.

[2183] I got to say I've actually never seen this.

[2184] This is like, what's wrong?

[2185] Why he's scared of me?

[2186] She's like, bitch, I'm gonna eat you.

[2187] It's blood.

[2188] Malcolm McDowell.

[2189] Wow.

[2190] Oh, shit.

[2191] Oh, she just turns into it.

[2192] That was it?

[2193] Oh, no, no. Here she comes.

[2194] Uh -oh.

[2195] Oh, she's going to take her clothes off.

[2196] She's looking at him.

[2197] That looked like Faber.

[2198] Oh, the woman taking her clothes off looking back.

[2199] I love it.

[2200] 1989 was so corny oh dude the guy breaks through oh she's a cat oh boy this is so dumb oh my god so wait is he one too I guess he's a cat too I don't remember they're gonna breed I want to see the transformation they might have skipped it oh it has to be a maybe there's no transformation that might have been too bad they just skipped it I feel like all these movies back then were kind of the same like do you remember silver bullet that was another yes Stephen King yeah silver bullet we had obviously American World from London it wouldn't be in the trailer let me find this I guess so it might not have had a scene it might have been I loved it all those types of movies I fucking loved them yeah they're so bad when you watch them oh horrible silver bullet was so terrible it's so bad but got it you got it oh it is there is a transformation oh she's washing her hands I don't get ahead a little.

[2201] Yes.

[2202] Oh, that's on YouTube?

[2203] Holy shit.

[2204] They're showing titi on YouTube.

[2205] How are they showing titi?

[2206] I don't know.

[2207] Someone missed it.

[2208] Yeah.

[2209] Did you show that on the screen?

[2210] No, no, no. Thank you.

[2211] We're not watching it.

[2212] We're getting big fucking trouble.

[2213] Really?

[2214] Our hands.

[2215] That's a solid minute of tit.

[2216] A solid tit minute.

[2217] Yeah.

[2218] That's nice.

[2219] What's going to happen?

[2220] Come on.

[2221] Let's get going.

[2222] Oh, she's with a regular white dude.

[2223] That guy's fucked.

[2224] Oh, here she's claws.

[2225] She's getting, showing more titty.

[2226] Super important.

[2227] Oh, okay.

[2228] The brows are changing.

[2229] The eyeballs, right?

[2230] Oh, here we go.

[2231] What's happening?

[2232] This is like an excuse to show her tits.

[2233] Yeah.

[2234] Whoa, the face.

[2235] Oh, man. Oh, it's kind of creepy.

[2236] Dude, this is great.

[2237] I bet she's going to do that and then immediately be a cat.

[2238] Yeah.

[2239] I bet they're going to turn away.

[2240] Oh, the claws.

[2241] Oh, yeah.

[2242] And he's sleeping.

[2243] Oh, dude, it's just like the American World from London.

[2244] Oh, the tities are going away.

[2245] Come on.

[2246] Oh, dude, that's brutal.

[2247] Oh, it comes out of the skin.

[2248] She popped out of the skin.

[2249] Oh, it's wrestling with him?

[2250] Get off me. This is my biggest fear.

[2251] Waking up in my tent for this.

[2252] And it just runs away.

[2253] What a whack movie.

[2254] Dude, that's crazy.

[2255] This movie's whack.

[2256] I've never even heard of it.

[2257] The crazy thing is, like, it seems like she's changing, and then it bursts out of her.

[2258] Yeah.

[2259] And it's like a cat.

[2260] Her skin just goes away.

[2261] They didn't think that would do it very well.

[2262] Well, you know, it's like 1982 special effects.

[2263] Pop.

[2264] Look it.

[2265] Yeah.

[2266] Like, it bursts.

[2267] Ah, the fucking cat comes out.

[2268] Blah.

[2269] It looks like a gorilla at first.

[2270] There's no better scene, a transformation scene than American world for a month.

[2271] No better.

[2272] When the guy's like lying on the floor that girl's apartment.

[2273] Yeah, extend out.

[2274] This fucking back is popping.

[2275] All the hair's coming out.

[2276] It's the best.

[2277] Oh, yeah.

[2278] I had Rick Baker on the podcast.

[2279] Yeah, I had him on.

[2280] Oh, my God, it was amazing.

[2281] I'm going to have to watch that.

[2282] It was so cool just to just be around that guy.

[2283] I worshipped him when I was a kid.

[2284] I wanted to be a makeup artist at one point in time when I was a kid.

[2285] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2286] I wanted to do special effects for monster movies.

[2287] I was like, that guy is so cool.

[2288] Like all the stuff that he did for Star Wars and, I mean, so many films, man. That is awesome.

[2289] So many movies that guy did special effects for it.

[2290] But, but yeah, man, those kind of.

[2291] of animals whether it's big cats or wolves and there's something about them like i'm glad they exist it's it's something dope about running into one you know i've only seen mount lines a couple times i saw one in the distance in colorado and one um when i was in santa barbara i was in monocito and we were driving i saw one run across the street oh yeah at night i first i thought it was a coyote and then i saw the tail i was like oh my god look at his fucking tail that's a cat And I realized it was a mountain line They're crazy I've only seen a handful in the wild Then they give me the chills Every single time They're amazing I'm glad they're real But that would be a suck way to go Do you see that recently That video like the hiker Yeah we played it a bunch of times Just like smack I would a shit Oh my God I would have been done Yeah he was like What the fuck fuck you Fuck you Wish I had a gun Yeah Yeah, it's, but that was another case of a mama in her cubs.

[2292] It's just, you don't fuck with a mama in her cubs, man. Yeah, he's really lucky that's all she did, you know, instead of just tagging him.

[2293] Oh, yeah, she was like, get out of here.

[2294] Just ripping his fucking face off.

[2295] Yeah.

[2296] She's really, really, really lucky.

[2297] But the way it ran at him with the paws.

[2298] Oh, yeah.

[2299] You just smack, bop, bop, bop, bop.

[2300] Yeah, I mean, I didn't know they did that.

[2301] I've never seen one do that, and I don't want to.

[2302] I guess you only see it right before you die.

[2303] You know, like, that's probably why we haven't seen it.

[2304] before like all you ever see is like they're moving slowly unless you're watching there's some pretty cool trail camp footage of them jacking deer yeah i've seen some of those oh my god deer's drinking out of a guzzler and wham just smacks it fast and hard just come in on them damn they're uh they're amazing animals but again that's one of the things that you appreciate about the wild when you're out there is that like if you didn't exist this is how it all goes down it's wolves and bears and mountain lines and deer and elk and all these animals trying to survive and it's just it's a magical place man I wish more people would experience it and I'm really glad that someone like you um has this service with fins and feathers where you'll take people out that don't have any experience whatsoever in that world and you can introduce it to them I mean what a fucking for a fan like what a great thing to be able to hang with you for a week and to be able to be introduced to the wild yeah yeah If we can basically teach them enough to be able to provide for themselves for the rest of their life.

[2305] Like, that's, for me, that's awesome.

[2306] It's pretty dope.

[2307] It's pretty fucking cool.

[2308] So your website for that is how do people get to it?

[2309] Fins and Feathers .com, and we spell fins and feathers with a Z. What are you wacky?

[2310] I know.

[2311] Well, somebody else had the other one and they wouldn't sell it to us.

[2312] What is on there?

[2313] Who knows?

[2314] I never even looked.

[2315] Oh, really?

[2316] Yeah.

[2317] Well, don't go to the one with the S. No S's.

[2318] We want Zs.

[2319] Chad Mendes, you need the Z's.

[2320] Fins and feathers.

[2321] I know.

[2322] And then peak refuel.

[2323] And then your almond beef is your company.

[2324] What was, those almond beef is like they're just eating almonds?

[2325] Yeah, so basically what we do.

[2326] Here's kind of the thought of the reasoning why we started this company is we were kind of talking about it earlier.

[2327] Like people, you know, wanting, at least for me, I get hit up a ton from people like, dude, I see all the elk that you got out or the deer.

[2328] Can I buy some?

[2329] And it's like, I can't legally sell you any wild game.

[2330] Plus, I don't know you.

[2331] I'm not going to just ship you a bunch of meat.

[2332] But I was like, how can we create something like in the beef industry that is as close as we can possibly get to the health benefits of wild game?

[2333] And so we basically take these cows, most of them, Angus, we do some Angus Cross, and pasteurase, no hormones, no antibiotics, no soy, no corn.

[2334] We pasteurize them the last 150 days.

[2335] we basically feed these steers our proprietary blend to feed which is almonds i mean my team's probably not going to want me to say this but i think this is probably one of our most important selling points on the beef but is the healthy diet that they're eating but it's almonds the almond hole which is like that fuzzy part on the outside tons of fiber tons of protein tons of fat obviously from an almond um we got sunflower seeds the shells um prune prune prune pit beet beet pulp like the pulp from the skin and all that stuff.

[2336] Brown rice.

[2337] So when they polish brown rice to make it white rice, they take all that healthy stuff off of it.

[2338] We throw all that shit in there.

[2339] And then we do like alfalfa and some type of roughage, like a barley hair or something like that.

[2340] So like I said, no soy, no corn.

[2341] And that's that feed, which is super high octane, high in fat, high in protein, high in carbohydrates, is all we feed them for the last 100 to 150 days, which basically we were kind of testing all this out over the last year or so and just seeing the type of marbling it's given this beef it's you know obviously leaving them super tender meat's phenomenal i got some out go ahead and try it and see what you think but yeah i'm really interested in trying it the fat on it has like almost like a buttery nutty flavor from because the almonds yeah it's it's really good and do they have like the dark texture to the meat the same like grass fed beef does yeah yep we got and it you know it it it varies our meat is frozen so basically what we do is it's frozen it's basically like a butcher box or something like that where you can go on and order whatever cuts you want on our website and then it shows up frozen on your doorstep when it's not frozen like if you get that beef and it's fresh off it's so dark it's like that really rich looking stuff but obviously once it freezes you know you lose a little bit of that but yeah man it's something that's unique it's different we wanted to do something that was healthier in the beef world you know obviously it's not quite wild game and I can't sell wild game but we wanted to create something that was healthier in that sense that where people can go online they can feel confident knowing like you know these are humanely raised they don't have a ton of shit pumped in them right and they're eating a good diet you know and this is all farmly or family owned operations like our so it's me and four other buddies that started this and like one of our guys one of our guys is one of the biggest almond growers in northern california so we get a lot of our almonds from him which is cool you know it's all family owned the merlo family um and then you know the other two guys that are part of it have been in the cattle industry their whole lives so they know that world like the back of their hand and then uh me and my good buddy chad belding he's um the owner of and the host of foul life tv on the outdoor channel so me and him are kind of you know obviously the people that are just letting people know about this stuff and so you know it's been we launched at the beginning of the year it's been a ton of work i mean fuck i never thought i was going to be in the beef industry but it's like holy fuck so what is the website how do people find it american almond beef dot com and they're all going to make fun of me because they call them ammons i don't know if you ever heard these guys northern california they say they call them ammons ammons they shake the l out of them is what they say it's i don't know it's really yeah they call them american ammen like a handful of ammons what all the farmers call it that yeah have you ever heard that that's like uh you've heard people call acorns ecorens Acorns?

[2342] No. Acorns.

[2343] It's like a south thing.

[2344] Yeah, it's weird.

[2345] I say almonds.

[2346] Yeah, it's an almond, you fucks.

[2347] Cut the shit.

[2348] American almond beef.

[2349] Imagine if you say it, yeah, we run a company called American Ammon Beef.

[2350] Like, what the fuck is an Ammon?

[2351] I searched Google for Ammons, and it's telling me almonds.

[2352] How do you say the word?

[2353] And there's a bunch of articles talking about that.

[2354] So it is only a Northern California?

[2355] I think it's just a Northern California farmer.

[2356] All the farmers call it that for some reason.

[2357] They look at you weird if you say almond.

[2358] They look at you weird.

[2359] Yeah.

[2360] Like you're an outside of just saying it right.

[2361] Well, either way.

[2362] I'm sure the beef is delicious.

[2363] I can't wait to try it out.

[2364] But thanks for being here, brother.

[2365] I appreciate it.

[2366] I'm glad we finally do this.

[2367] And good luck in your fight.

[2368] So October 22nd.

[2369] Is that what it is?

[2370] October 22nd.

[2371] And that'll be on Bear Knock.

[2372] They do pay -per -view, right?

[2373] They do, yeah.

[2374] And I think it's kind of similar to the UFC.

[2375] Like you download an app.

[2376] I think you can do stuff from the app.

[2377] It's the fight app, right?

[2378] F -I -T -E.

[2379] Isn't that what it is?

[2380] Glory uses that too, I think.

[2381] I believe so.

[2382] Yeah.

[2383] Thank you so much.

[2384] And Chad Mendes on Instagram, Twitter, all those things, right?

[2385] Yep, yep.

[2386] So we have the, yeah, we're all there.

[2387] You guys can, Chad Mende is on, and it's with an S. A lot of people think it's with a Z. Only fins and feathers is with the Z. All right, brother.

[2388] Thanks for being here, man. Thank you so much, man. I appreciate it.

[2389] Bye, everybody.