S3 E4: It Comes Through Like a Freaking Bomb

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] This podcast is intended for mature audiences and discusses topics that could be triggering to some.

[11] Opinions expressed by guests on the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of this podcast.

[12] I am not a therapist or a doctor.

[13] All resources, books, and sources mentioned on the podcast can be found linked in the episode notes.

[14] Please note, names have been changed in this story for anonymity purposes.

[15] If you or someone you love is being abused, please contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1 -800 -799 -7233.

[16] If you or someone you love is struggling with a suicidal crisis or emotional distress, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 24 -7 at 1 -800 -273 -8255.

[17] Please note, some of today's episode involves suicidal ideation or or thoughts of suicide.

[18] Please take care when listening.

[19] Thank you.

[20] In Dr. Stephanie Moulton Sarkas book, Gaslighting, she describes, gaslighters are very seductive.

[21] They will sweep you off your feet with love bombing and then drop you off a cliff.

[22] The initial seduction is so strong that when things do go south, it's hard not to feel that you're to blame, or that somehow you should be able to get that wonderful person back.

[23] The initial charm is all part of the game.

[24] Relationships with gaslighters are filled with confusion, disorder, and drama, so much so that it's easy to feel shame.

[25] But being attracted to a gaslighter is no cause for shame.

[26] Even brilliant, successful, and otherwise discerning people can be easily seduced by a gaslighter's many initial charms.

[27] Gaslighters crave newness, and attention.

[28] Even if you could do everything, quote, perfectly, the gaslighter is still a bottomless pit of need that can never be filled.

[29] Taking personal responsibility is not a characteristic of gaslighters.

[30] They always believe it is someone else's fault.

[31] They rarely feel empathy or remorse.

[32] Love bombing, hoovering, stonewalling, and flying monkeys are tactics gaslighters enjoy using to manipulate those around them.

[33] As previously mentioned on the podcast in season one, love bombing is a common tactic abusers use to hook their victims.

[34] Love bombers use excessive affection and attention in order to gain control or significantly influence your behavior.

[35] This includes showering you with praise, buying you gifts, aligning with your opinions, and spending lots of time together.

[36] Gaslighters are amazingly good at keeping their pathology in check until they know you're hooked.

[37] They erode your perception of reality until you feel you cannot function normally without them.

[38] When a gaslighter love bombs you, it's hard to get away.

[39] The attention you receive is intoxicating.

[40] The pedestal they put you on feels damn good, but eventually when you fall off of it, it is a long way down.

[41] Hoovering is a tactic gaslighters used to try and suck you back in when they feel you checking out.

[42] If gaslighters get any kind of inkling of perceived abandonment, they work at sucking you back in.

[43] They will stop at nothing to get you back in their clutches.

[44] Nothing causes fear in gaslighters more than the feeling of abandonment.

[45] This is what's known as a narcissistic injury.

[46] Gaslighters have an endless pit of need for attention, no matter what you do.

[47] You will always be humanly incapable of fulfilling their needs.

[48] The gaslighter knows just how to get you hooked back in with the promise of something that you want.

[49] Often, they will use objects to try and reel you in.

[50] You'll get texts and emails.

[51] These are all attempts made with the same intent to try and get back in contact with you.

[52] Stonewalling is the disappearing act or radio silence gaslighters will treat you to when they get caught, feel they've been done wrong, or simply prefer not to talk about something because it's more convenient for them that way.

[53] If you don't live with them, you won't see or hear from them.

[54] They will not answer your texts or calls.

[55] Meanwhile, you grow more anxious the longer that you don't hear from them.

[56] Does it bother the gaslighter that their silent treatment is torturing you?

[57] Far from it.

[58] They love that their behavior causes you to get upset.

[59] Once you've left a gaslighter, well -meaning friends and relatives may approach you and tell you they think you should give the gaslighter another chance.

[60] They may even tell you that you've always been too sensitive or difficult.

[61] Chances are, the gaslighter contacted these people to put them up to this.

[62] The people who willingly and sometimes unwittingly do the gaslighter's bidding are known as flying monkeys.

[63] The Gasider sends these messengers to attempt to guilt you back into the relationship.

[64] Healthy people do not stalk or harass others, regardless of whatever reason they may use to attempt to do so.

[65] I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is, something was wrong.

[66] Well, I happened to one day share a photo on Facebook.

[67] Here's C .J. Bishop.

[68] And it was of my father -in -law.

[69] It was an excellent picture of, like, a local photographer had snapped a picture of him outside of a working fire one night.

[70] And he posted it to his photography page on Facebook.

[71] And I thought, oh, well, my mother -in -law and sister -in -law are going see it if they don't follow him.

[72] So I saw it and I shared it and I tagged my mother -in -law and sister -in -law in it.

[73] Because at the time, my father -in -law was supposed to be retiring in the next few years and I thought, oh man, they have to have that picture of him.

[74] So I shared it and within probably it had to have been within 30 minutes.

[75] I get a text from Patty.

[76] Oh, well, I saw that picture that you shared, that's nice.

[77] I guess I'm just kind of surprised at why you'd share that if you, um, you know, if you hate him so much.

[78] And I ended up saying, well, even though, you know, things aren't good between us, like, that's still Victoria's husband and that's still my sister -in -law's father and they deserve to have a good picture of him before he retires.

[79] And she basically just, in her own snarky way, had said that I was being like a hypocrite because I shouldn't be sharing a picture of somebody that I can't stand.

[80] And I have the conversation saved because at the time I thought when the day comes that my father -in -law comes around and snaps out of whatever funk he's in, I am going to show him this conversation and make him see that his friends are not his friends.

[81] Patty basically said, well, I don't think that anybody should be drawing attention to Ted because we all know that that family loves attention.

[82] And I finally just said, you know what, like you are the biggest hypocrite.

[83] I know exactly what you're doing.

[84] I'm aware that you love the fact that Victoria and Ted are not close with their children and closer to your family.

[85] I'm aware that you love it.

[86] Unfortunately, like, I mean, I just told her, I said, I think you're just nuts, like whatever was going on in your head, you need to get it fixed, which probably wasn't a nice thing, but that's just how I felt.

[87] I was like, I'm done.

[88] Like, I'm done with this.

[89] I couldn't believe the reaction that she, I couldn't believe the crap she gave me for sharing a simple picture of my father -in -law, and she didn't approve of it.

[90] So I got off the phone.

[91] I remember I was, I took off work that day to just like spend time with Brad, and I set my phone down.

[92] And I remember I walked outside of the garage and I said to him, I don't know what's going on, but I have a feeling that whatever the issues are between us and your family, I don't think that Patty is helping it.

[93] Like, I couldn't say at the time she's the cause of all this.

[94] I just knew that she wasn't helping the situation.

[95] And I said, that's it.

[96] Like, we're done.

[97] We're not going over there for holidays.

[98] I don't want to be in her home.

[99] We're backing.

[100] away.

[101] You know, since we stopped going to holidays at her house since then, she and her husband noticed.

[102] And I think that they really thought we weren't going over there because of my in -laws and the strain between us and my mother and father -in -law.

[103] It wasn't my mother and father -in -law.

[104] We didn't go because we didn't trust her.

[105] And we didn't want to be under her roof.

[106] So after the whole Facebook incident the next day she had text me and apologized.

[107] You know, I'm sorry about that.

[108] Blah, blah, blah.

[109] Like, you're right.

[110] I was, you know, I was wrong.

[111] And that's how it was whenever I would call her out.

[112] Whenever I would start calling her out on little things, she would get just infuriated and start spatting words.

[113] And then later on, she'd apologize for it.

[114] And I don't know if that's because she was afraid that I'd figure out what was going on and thought, oh, well, I better, I better take a couple steps back.

[115] I don't know.

[116] I don't know why she would do that.

[117] But I can tell you after that whole Facebook incident, I was done.

[118] And it wasn't that I didn't have contact with her after that.

[119] I mean, we did.

[120] Like, you know, if we saw her out or at a function or whatever, it's not that we wouldn't talk to her.

[121] Like, we talked to her from time to time that it was about trivial things, you know, oh, this weather.

[122] Oh, okay.

[123] Yeah, I saw that so -and -so's getting married.

[124] That's nice.

[125] If you need anything, let me know.

[126] You know, it's not that we went no contact, but I did not have a friendship with her after that.

[127] She was not allowed in my life.

[128] I didn't tell her about our troubles and our heartache that she knew.

[129] I mean, she knew we were so heartbroken over the situation with my in -laws.

[130] She knew how much it killed us.

[131] You know, she knew it.

[132] You know, my husband is a very, he takes everything to heart.

[133] So she knew it was killing him to be in the state with his family.

[134] and she loved it.

[135] Here's Brad.

[136] My mom was very, like, whatever Patty would say, like, she submitted to, she really would.

[137] There, within the last six, eight months or whatever, I was starting to talk to my mom.

[138] You know, she would call, or I would call her, you know, maybe once a week or whatever.

[139] Again, it's horrible to admit they live a mile away, you know, and it's just you barely even speak to them.

[140] But I was.

[141] I was really starting to talk to my mom a lot more.

[142] my mom started kind of realizing stuff with patty like like patty out of the absolute blue started to i guess she started hearing that i was she was talking my mom was talking to me and even my mom who knew nothing and told patty everything in her life and more instantly it was like you know what i ain't saying nothing to her she's like no i don't i'm dan tiberski in 2011 something strange began to happen at the high school in leroy new york i was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[143] I'm like, stop around.

[144] She's like, I can't.

[145] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[146] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[147] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[148] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[149] Well, you were holding something back.

[150] Intentionally.

[151] Yeah, yeah.

[152] Well, yeah.

[153] No, it's hysteria.

[154] It's all in your head.

[155] It's not physical.

[156] You're, oh my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[157] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem?

[158] Or is it something else entirely.

[159] Something's wrong here.

[160] Something's not right.

[161] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[162] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[163] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[164] You can binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[165] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[166] She had been under the influence and she left him there.

[167] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[168] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[169] What happens next?

[170] Depends on who you ask.

[171] Was it a crime of passion?

[172] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[173] This was clearly an intentional act.

[174] and his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[175] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[176] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[177] Everyone had an opinion.

[178] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[179] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[180] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[181] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondry Plus.

[182] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[183] Here's Victoria.

[184] The morning, March 7th, Ted came off of daylight, and he was down reading a paper, and normal circumstances, he would usually come upstairs and at least say, I'm home, hello.

[185] something.

[186] Well, this particular morning he didn't.

[187] He stayed downstairs and I came downstairs to go outside or to get ready for work, finished getting ready for work.

[188] And he had his nose in the paper and I said, you didn't even come up and say hello.

[189] And he's like, oh, are you going to get ticked off at me for that too?

[190] I said, me get ticked off.

[191] I said, you're the one that didn't come upstairs and say good morning or even hello.

[192] And I said, what's going on with you?

[193] And he's nothing.

[194] The night prior to that, I didn't get any kind of text from Patty.

[195] Patty text me constantly.

[196] What are you doing?

[197] Are you sleeping?

[198] Because I would fall asleep a lot in the evening because I was depressed.

[199] What did you have for dinner?

[200] What did you have for snack?

[201] What did you, you know, what are you doing at this moment?

[202] And so it was a constant.

[203] I said, I didn't hear at all from you last night, and I said this be a text, and she said, well, Kurt found a lot of text from Ted and Mr. Johnson, and he's really mad.

[204] And we're probably going to end up in a divorce.

[205] And I says, so what do you mean?

[206] You're a lot of texting from Ted.

[207] And she's like, well, nothing happened.

[208] and there was nothing sexual, but, you know, we're really close, and we text each other a lot, and we joke and have fun, and I'm like, wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[209] I said, I don't understand.

[210] She's like, I swear, nothing happens sexually, but, you know, we're really close.

[211] And I says, all right, I believe you.

[212] If you say nothing happened, I believe you.

[213] And I thought about it for a little while, and I text her back, and I says, if you were me, how would you take this?

[214] And she's like, well, I don't know if I would believe me. So Patty had texted my mother -in -law saying, hey, I think I owe you an apology last night.

[215] My husband, Kurt, had found a bunch of text messages between Ted and I and found it was, like, inappropriate.

[216] when I swear there was nothing inappropriate about it or the just was there was nothing more sinister about it.

[217] She was just trying to help my father -in -law with his marriage.

[218] And said, and she had said, Kurt and I may be getting a divorce.

[219] He's really upset.

[220] But I promise, you know, there was nothing deceitful.

[221] I was just trying to help.

[222] I was just trying to help your marriage.

[223] What Kurt had told Brad, was I questioned her as to why there was so much text messaging between your dad and Mr. Johnson.

[224] Now, from the text message that Patty had sent my mother -in -law, it seemed like he saw what kind of text messages they were because he was really upset and said, you know, oh, we may be getting a divorce over this, but I promise I was just trying to help Ted with your marriage.

[225] So I got on the phone and I called Ted and I said, Ted, what are you doing?

[226] and he's like, oh, I'm doing my parents grocery shopping.

[227] I said, I just got some disturbing text from Patty regarding you texting her and she texting you.

[228] Yeah?

[229] And I says, what's going on?

[230] He's like, nothing.

[231] I said, no, I don't think it's nothing.

[232] I says, you know what?

[233] I'm to the point now, Ted, I'm here to tell you.

[234] You either start going to counseling with me or we're done.

[235] And he said, okay, he's never said that.

[236] And he was calm, he was cool.

[237] I thought, oh, he must be in some place where he can't talk because he was getting his parents' groceries.

[238] And I said, okay, all right, I'll talk to you later.

[239] He said, all right, he said, bye.

[240] I text Ted, because we had gotten a puppy a few months prior, I said, did you let the pup out?

[241] and I didn't hear from him.

[242] So I assumed, oh, he's still at his parents, so it was 12 .38.

[243] I looked up my watch when I left work.

[244] I went home, which takes about 15 minutes.

[245] And I saw Ted's truck in the driveway, and I pulled in, and I said, oh, boy, I better go in or I'll get yelled at.

[246] I don't want to listen to it, so I'll go in, and I get in the house, and I start hollering for Ted asking him, you know, where you're at?

[247] What are you doing?

[248] The pup was in the living room and the gates were up and I didn't think too much about it and hollowed down in the basement because Ted does a lot of woodworking and he wasn't down there and, you know, nothing was out of the norm.

[249] Everything looked normal and I hollered and I ran upstairs.

[250] I thought, oh, maybe he's in the attic and he just can't hear me. I hollered up in the attic and he wasn't there and my daughter's room's door was shut and I opened the door and I smelled this flash of gunpowder and Ted was on the floor sitting and it was blood all over's temple and coming out of his nose mouth and the gun was on his lap and I ran over and I checked them for a pulse and I couldn't feel one so I checked it again and by that time I'm really shaky and I really got the phone and I called my one one and a lady was just taking forever with me and I went back and checked them again for a third time and I knew he was gone I knew he was gone I just knew it and I was so afraid to look at the other side of his head because I was afraid there was nothing there but thankfully the grace of God it was there because the bullet didn't like said and all I could think of that was my children and I called my children well I called my son because he was so close because he only was like a little less than a mile from me and I called him and he's like what's wrong I should come home I think you did it was that afternoon or morning or whatever I went to a Bible study and I'm sitting there with the guys you know in this Bible study and my phone rings I look at his mom my son stood right away I'm in the middle of a Bible study I'll talk to her later she called back right away and I thought no man all right so I stood up didn't think anything of it picked up that phone and I could hear her screaming and I've been a first responder for a while now and you just know it's bad so I knew something was bad and she said you have to come home quick um I think your dad uh I think your dad shot himself I said where are you she says I'm at home and she's screaming and I run back into the room with the Bible study I'll never forget in a middle of a church.

[251] I'm like, how the F do you get out of this place?

[252] And they all jumped up and said, out here.

[253] I couldn't even remember.

[254] It was a big church and we're in the basement.

[255] And I bolt it out.

[256] I jumped in my truck and I took off and I floored it.

[257] I met up with a city detective at a main intersection.

[258] He was going lights and siren and an unmarked cruiser.

[259] And we met the intersection and I'm screaming at him to keep going.

[260] And he threw his hands up and he told me afterwards, He says, as soon as I saw the truck and I saw I saw the tag, I knew it was you.

[261] Because at first he was like, what on the heck are you doing thinking I was just like a regular citizen, you know, about ready to block him in the intersection?

[262] And he kind of like motioned like, yeah, come on.

[263] And we floored it through the whole city.

[264] I was hot on his tail.

[265] And when we got to my parent street, he pulled over and I floored it and went to the house.

[266] I was at work.

[267] I got a call on my cell phone from Brad.

[268] and I knew right away something was wrong because he usually calls my office number and goes through the system to my extension, but he called my cell phone.

[269] And I picked up the phone.

[270] And after I said hello, all I heard was, I need you to come to the house.

[271] Mom thinks dad killed himself.

[272] And my boss had to drive me over to his parents' house because I just, I felt like I was going to pass out so I didn't want to drive.

[273] And in the car in my head, I'm thinking, he's dead.

[274] Like, I know he's dead.

[275] He wasn't stupid.

[276] It sounds morbid, but he knew how to successfully kill himself.

[277] I mean, there's just no way he would have botched it.

[278] And I just knew he was gone at that point, and there would probably be no closure.

[279] And I had this insane feeling of the husband I know now is gone.

[280] I had this fear of he's never going to be happy again.

[281] He's never going to be fulfilled again.

[282] It was so hard for me to grasp like this amazing person that I married is never going to fully be happy in his life again.

[283] And that's what I feared because this terrible thing happened.

[284] A man that was his father and once his best friend and best man at our wedding is gone.

[285] You know, I just had this terrible sadness like for my husband.

[286] And I remember pulling up onto the block, Brad beat me there, and once I could hear, I could hear my mother -in -law like, she sounded like a wounded animal.

[287] I could hear her from like the corner of the block.

[288] I will never forget the way that sounded.

[289] My mom was on the couch hysterical.

[290] I ran through the door.

[291] She's hysterical.

[292] My one good buddy of mine, he's on the job.

[293] He doesn't, he doesn't live, he lives right, literally not far from my parents' house.

[294] He ran down.

[295] We get like text alerts on our phones, you know, and he saw the address and knew it was my dad's house.

[296] He ran down.

[297] He was one of the first ones there.

[298] And he yelled at me to stay downstairs.

[299] I just bolted upstairs, and there was a sea of our guys, cops, ambulance people in the hallway.

[300] And I tried to make my way through, and it was a bit of a fight.

[301] They didn't know who I was at first.

[302] and, you know, once they realize it was me, sorry.

[303] Once they realize it was me, they were like, you know, don't, don't.

[304] You know, they kind of grabbed me and I said, is he gone?

[305] And they said, yeah.

[306] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

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[308] And I'm Sarah Haggy.

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[315] I just remember walking into the house and it was so weird because we were so disconnected from his family and it was like stepping into this house that smells the same from when I remembered it from years prior when I used to practically lived there, you know, they had me over all the time.

[316] And it was like a second home to me. It was so weird walking in there because I hadn't been in that house in so long.

[317] And now here I am.

[318] And there's police and ambulance and fire firemen.

[319] And my husband is upstairs and his dad's gone.

[320] I just remember sitting down with, I sat down with my mother -in -law.

[321] She was on the couch just like trying to catch her breath and my husband was still upstairs and thank God like he didn't see he didn't see his dad in that state they wouldn't let him they knew that you know he's in he's in public service so thankfully all the responders that were at the house that day in some way knew our family and knew my husband so they didn't let him in to see and I'm so thankful for that because I would never have wanted my husband's last memory of seeing his dad to be that way.

[322] But I just kept saying to like to the first responders and the police and like the city detective was there.

[323] And I kept saying, are you sure?

[324] Are you sure?

[325] This doesn't sound right.

[326] Like my father -in -law was not a person that that would have committed suicide.

[327] There was just no way.

[328] I mean, he was in public service himself and he just kind of always showed.

[329] his head as terrible as this sounds he shook his head at people that did that i think it's because like you know if you don't understand it you shake your head at it like really are you that weak or you that whenever that's obviously so not the case but you just have such a negative perspective of people that do that and here he you know and then it was him that did it it just seemed so unbelievable i guess at first she's my mother -in -law thought that he was cleaning a gun and it went off because it just didn't make sense that he would have shot himself but that definitely wasn't the case but they were just 110 % positive that it was self -inflicted it wasn't an accident it wasn't a murder he he did it to himself and that was the weird thing like I didn't even know how to act and I started to kind of break down a little bit and they were like go downstairs you need to be with your mom and I did I really composed myself and and I was fine was talking like I was a couple minutes ago I wasn't teary -eyed I wasn't crying I was just there for my mom and I started calling people and you know my mom through her coughing and dry heaveen and crying she's like you got to get a hold of this person got to get a hold of your sister do not tell her just tell her she has to get here and and it wasn't until I had I had called someone in particular and and I had my mom's phone and uh i called my mom's sister at first and uh she's probably the oldest second oldest of like seven or eight siblings she didn't answer my uncle answered and i was like listen you just got to get down here i didn't even tell him he's like and they they all live hours away and uh and he's like okay he's like what's the matter he's like i just need you down here he said as soon as she gets home we'll head down they didn't ask any questions that's i mean we have we have a great family we really do And I called somebody else, and again, I have my mom's phone, so they pick up and they're like, hello, thinking that they're my mom.

[330] And I'm like, hey, it's me. And, you know, I'm pretty close to this individual one.

[331] He said, what's wrong?

[332] And that was the first time that I really started getting upset.

[333] I said, Dad shot himself.

[334] And this other guy I'm talking to, he's a pretty tough guy.

[335] He's been to her a lot, too, you know, just in life in general.

[336] and I can hear him kind of like, like a grown man, you know, whimper.

[337] Hey, that's something you don't hear it.

[338] He just did it real quick like, and he's like, he's dead.

[339] I said, yeah, he's dead.

[340] I said, we lost him.

[341] He said, we'll be right down.

[342] And big community and my family of first responders and law enforcement and 911 dispatchers and firefighters, we just have a whole line of it, you know, a family.

[343] But, you know, I guess it'll hit anybody.

[344] It doesn't matter how many calls you run, doesn't matter how much bad stuff you see.

[345] You know, when it hits the family, it comes through like a freaking bomb.

[346] Sorry, just kind of, that whole day, you know.

[347] Think about it all the time.

[348] I tell my wife all the time, like, I think about it every single day.

[349] I'll be thinking about it at dinner.

[350] I think about it work.

[351] I don't do anything.

[352] But when you talk about it, when you actually talk about it, It makes it pretty real again.

[353] I guess just rehashed and everything from basically child birth to that day.

[354] You know, it's just, and that's it.

[355] You know, it's over.

[356] He's dead.

[357] You know, it's over.

[358] His life's gone.

[359] Every attempt to try to get him the importance of seeing living for the Lord, living for the family, living, you know, stopping everything he's doing, the lifestyle, everything, everything is over.

[360] It's done.

[361] There's no path go, there's no collecting $200, there's nothing.

[362] It's over.

[363] He's done.

[364] He made that decision, and there's no taking that back, you know.

[365] And that's the hardest thing we struggled with was there is no him pulling in to hash things out.

[366] There's no fixing things.

[367] It's, you know, it was over.

[368] And that was the hardest, that is the hardest part.

[369] after a little bit my husband had called his first call was his sister she was in i think she was in state college working that day uh so once she came to the house and once she knew once he called a lot of the immediate family um and immediate relatives and once everybody knew and they were on their way here uh i believe it was the city detective that had said do you do you guys have somewhere that you can go, can you make a home base somewhere else?

[370] So I brought my sister -in -law and mother -in -law here to our house, which is crazy because all this distance and we only live a mile apart from my in -law's house, which is sad.

[371] But I brought them here, and sure enough, you know, the first people to show up here were Patty and Kurt.

[372] Next time.

[373] You think you know me, you don't know me well at all.

[374] You think you know me you don't know me well.

[375] Something was wrong is written, recorded, edited, and produced by me, Tiffany Reese.

[376] Thank you so much to the bishop family for participating in this series.

[377] To reference sources, resources, and links that are mentioned on the podcast, check out the show and episode notes.

[378] Music on this series by Gladrags.

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[383] Um, yeah.

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