S10 E1: [Bailey] I'm going to f*cking kill you

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences.

[11] Episodes can discuss topics that can be triggering, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, suicide, and murder.

[12] I am not a therapist or a doctor.

[13] If you're in need of support, please visit something was wrong .com slash resources for a list of nonprofit organizations that can help.

[14] Some names have been changed for anonymity purposes.

[15] Opinions expressed by the guests on the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of myself or AudioChuk.

[16] Resources and source material are linked in the episode notes.

[17] Thank you so much for listening.

[18] Hi, friends.

[19] First of all, I want to say thank you so much for listening to and sharing Season 9.

[20] Your support and encouragement has meant so much to Danielle, Kenji, and myself.

[21] This season, 11 incredible survivors will share their compelling stories of shocking life discoveries and the recovery from them.

[22] Their stories will be told in an episodic format, meaning more inspiring stories and less cliffhangers.

[23] This week, I'm honored to introduce Survivor Bailey, whose story highlights how listening to your gut can save your life.

[24] I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is Something Was Wrong, Season 10.

[25] You think you know me, you don't know me well.

[26] Bailey.

[27] I grew up in Orange County, California.

[28] Orange County is kind of its own weird little world, and money is a big deal there.

[29] Cars are a huge status symbol.

[30] A lot of my friends for their 16th birthday, not only got a car, but got a nice car.

[31] They'd be hoping for a Lexus or a BMW.

[32] And it's interesting just how much focus is on money.

[33] People will want to work that into conversations kind of early on when you meet them, their income level or their beach house or where they're going to vacation.

[34] There's just a lot of focus on wealth.

[35] One night in 2006, I went to a club called Sutra with a friend of mine.

[36] We were just looking to go out and have fun together.

[37] We loved dancing.

[38] We weren't looking to meet anybody.

[39] But while we were there, we were approached by a cocktail server who said that some men in the VIP area would like it if we came and sat and had some drinks with them.

[40] And we thought that seemed fun.

[41] So we went over and sat down.

[42] And a man who introduced himself as JD started talking to me. He immediately mentioned his watch and how much it cost.

[43] And he seemed a little full of himself, but he seemed nice enough.

[44] He mentioned his mom and that he was really close with her.

[45] So we were chatting for a while and he asked for my number and I gave it to him.

[46] And I don't think I really gave it much thought afterwards.

[47] I wasn't particularly interested in him.

[48] J .D. ended up calling Bailey and asking her out, and they met up to go to a party, but their plans fell through, so they decided to try again another time.

[49] So in January, a few months later, he called me and asked to take me out.

[50] And I had been reading this book, which I now, as a grown woman, realize, is really misogynistic.

[51] It's called He's Just Not That Into You.

[52] and according to the man who wrote that book, it's not really a date unless the guy picks you up.

[53] I told J .D., you have to come pick me up at my house, so he did.

[54] I definitely ended up regretting that decision.

[55] We went out for drinks in this city called Seal Beach.

[56] It's teeny.

[57] It's between Huntington Beach and Long Beach.

[58] It's a beautiful area.

[59] We went to a bar and played pool, and we were having fun.

[60] I think I had two drinks, maybe three.

[61] We were chatting about all sorts of things.

[62] I remember him saying that Victoria's Secret was a scam.

[63] Their bras cost like cents on the dollar to make, and it was such a markup.

[64] Bailey remembers another strange comment J .D. made while they were out at the bar.

[65] And he started trying to guess my weight, which I don't really know why anyone would do that.

[66] I don't really want to talk about my weight with anybody.

[67] It's just not something I care to discuss.

[68] but he was guessing my weight and guessed way lower than what I weighed.

[69] And I could tell it was to try to flatter me, and I thought that was kind of weird.

[70] But aside from that, he seemed like a nice guy.

[71] We were hitting it off, and he asked me if I wanted to come back to his place and go in the hot tub.

[72] And Orange County, California is a very expensive place to live.

[73] I didn't know anyone my age who lived by themselves.

[74] It's not really feasible to live almost across the same.

[75] street from the beach by yourself.

[76] So when he asked me to come over, I just assumed he had roommates.

[77] And I said yes.

[78] So we were making the drive from the bar to his house, which was only a five or so minute drive.

[79] On their way to his house, Bailey asked J .D. if he would go through a fast food drive -thru, as she had been drinking on an empty stomach.

[80] I said, hey, will you drive me through there?

[81] I drank some alcohol and I'm really hungry.

[82] And he aggressively starts telling me, fast food is so bad for you?

[83] Why would you want to put that in your body?

[84] I'm not taking you there.

[85] No. And I was like, I'll pay for it.

[86] I'm not asking you to buy me food, but I don't feel great and I'm hungry.

[87] And he's like, I'm not taking you there and drives to his house.

[88] So I'm thinking that was a very strange reaction.

[89] I'm wondering if he's under the influence of something.

[90] If he's taking steroids, I don't know.

[91] But that was weird.

[92] He seems very into his appearance.

[93] I could tell by looking at him that he worked out, spent a lot of time in the gym.

[94] So I'm thinking maybe it's some issue he has with food.

[95] I don't know.

[96] When they arrived at Jady's apartment complex, Bailey had an unsettling realization.

[97] When we walk in, I see it's a studio, no roommates, and I think, shit, what have I done?

[98] Now I'm here alone with him.

[99] I don't want to spend the night.

[100] He drove me here.

[101] I'm going to need to see if I can kind of get out of this.

[102] But the hot tub sounded okay.

[103] So he offered me some basketball shorts to wear in a tank top of his.

[104] So I wore that.

[105] We went in the hot tub.

[106] And alcohol and hot tubs aren't really a great mix.

[107] So once I got in, everything I drank kind of hit me at once.

[108] And I was a little lightheaded.

[109] And we were kissing in the hot tub.

[110] And then I told him, I'm feeling a little lightheaded.

[111] Can we go back to your house?

[112] So we got out of the hot tub and walked back to his apartment.

[113] And he said he was going to make me a drink.

[114] And while he did that, I happen to see his driver's license sitting out on his counter and his name says James Ernest and he told me that his name was John David.

[115] So I'm like thinking, okay, a guy who's a stranger who lied about his name is now making me a drink and I probably shouldn't even be here.

[116] It's like all my spidey senses started tinkling.

[117] And so he handed me the drink and I took one sip.

[118] And I thought, I need to leave.

[119] And I did not feel good at this point.

[120] So I went in the bathroom and I made myself throw up.

[121] Just on the off chance there was anything in that drink, I wanted it out of my system.

[122] While this is happening, he comes to the door of the bathroom and starts pounding on the door, yelling at me, saying, you said earlier, you never throw up from alcohol.

[123] What's going on?

[124] And I said, I don't feel good.

[125] I need you to take me home.

[126] And he screams, let me in.

[127] I'm not taking you home.

[128] Let me in.

[129] Unlock the door.

[130] And this point I'm thinking, I have got to figure out a way to get out of here.

[131] I'm Dan Taberski.

[132] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[133] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[134] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[135] She's like, I can't.

[136] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[137] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[138] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the download.

[139] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[140] Well, you were holding something back.

[141] Intentionally.

[142] Yeah, well, yeah.

[143] No, it's hysteria.

[144] It's all in your head.

[145] It's not physical.

[146] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[147] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the Witches of Salem?

[148] Or is it something else entirely?

[149] Something's wrong here.

[150] Something's not right.

[151] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[152] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[153] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[154] You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

[155] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[156] She had been under the influence that she left him there.

[157] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[158] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[159] What happens next?

[160] Depends on who you ask.

[161] Was it a crime of passion?

[162] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[163] This was clearly an intentional act.

[164] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[165] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[166] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[167] Everyone had an opinion.

[168] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[169] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[170] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[171] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus.

[172] Join Wondery Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[173] As J .D. was banging on the bathroom door, Bailey started to panic.

[174] I was thinking about my son.

[175] He was a toddler at the time.

[176] I was thinking about what my family would feel if I end up being murdered by a stranger.

[177] I'm trying to remember if I even gave my mom the address of where we're going to be.

[178] So many things are going through my mind.

[179] But the foremost thought in my head was you have to get out of here.

[180] And you have to find a way to leave now.

[181] So I came out of the bathroom and he said, yeah, you know, while we were playing pool, you said you were so good at massages, so give me a back massage.

[182] And he said, I don't feel good.

[183] I need you to take me home.

[184] He said, I am not taking you home.

[185] He was very adamant about that.

[186] So I said, then I'll take a cab or I'll call a friend.

[187] And I started toward the door.

[188] And at that point, he grabbed my cell phone.

[189] I believe it was on the counter.

[190] So he grabbed it and he stood in front of the door, physically blocking it.

[191] And he said, you're not going home.

[192] That was one of those moments where it felt like everything froze.

[193] It felt like time slowed down.

[194] And all I thought was get out.

[195] So somehow I got around him.

[196] I managed to open the door and slip through it.

[197] And I just ran.

[198] I didn't have my phone.

[199] I don't even know if I had shoes on at this point, but I bolted.

[200] And he started chasing me. As she was trying to get away from J .D. in the apartment complex parking lot, he began screaming at her, which she hoped might help gain someone's attention.

[201] And so we were in front of one of his neighbor's houses, and the guy opened the door and said, it is 4 in the morning, you need to shut up.

[202] And J .D. looked at his neighbor and said, if you don't go back inside your house right now, I'm going to fucking kill you.

[203] And the neighbor looked at me, looked at J .D. and closed the door and went back inside his house.

[204] And that was when I realized I was on my own.

[205] No one else was going to help me. And I was dealing with someone who was even less stable than I thought.

[206] At this point, every lifetime movie I've ever seen is flashing through my head.

[207] And I'm thinking, I have to pacify the psycho.

[208] right?

[209] I have to play his game.

[210] I have to make him think that I pity him or want to be with him or whatever because that is the only way I'm going to make it out of here safely.

[211] So I walked up to him, I was sobbing and I said, please can I just give you a hug?

[212] I'm really scared right now.

[213] And I gave him a hug and I grabbed my phone out of his hand.

[214] He was holding his hands behind his back.

[215] I managed to grab my phone out of his hand and I ran as fast as I could.

[216] And I ran three, his parking lot, out of his complex, to the corner where, thankfully, there was a gas station.

[217] And I walked in, and I was able to catch my breath.

[218] And I called my friend Chelsea.

[219] Chelsea is one of those friends everyone needs.

[220] She had told me before.

[221] She said, day or night, you can call me. If it's three in the morning, you need something, call me. So she was the first person I thought to call.

[222] She answered.

[223] And I told her what was going on.

[224] And she said, Bailey, call the police.

[225] And as soon as she said that, J .D. walked in the gas station behind me. And I turned around and I saw him and I said, I'm calling the police.

[226] And as soon as I said that, he turned around and ran.

[227] Bailey hung up with her friend Chelsea and called the police while waiting inside with a gas station employee.

[228] They said they'd send someone over.

[229] So while I was waiting for someone to show up, this woman pulled up to the gas station.

[230] She was pretty young, I would say, early 20s.

[231] And she walked in and said, are you Bailey?

[232] And I said, yes.

[233] And she said, okay, I'm going to go get your purse back.

[234] And I said, so you know J .D.?

[235] And she said, what is wrong with him?

[236] And she just shook her head and said, I'm so sorry.

[237] The mystery woman got in her car and drove off.

[238] Then she returned a few minutes later with Bailey's stuff.

[239] And she handed me my purse, and I checked my wallet immediately.

[240] and my ID and my debit card and my credit card were missing.

[241] And I told her that, and she shook her head and said, I'm so sorry, I'll be back again.

[242] So she went back, came back a few minutes later with my cards.

[243] Obviously, I had to cancel my debit and credit card anyway, but at least I had my ID.

[244] So she left.

[245] Still, to this day, I have no idea how she knew him or who she was, but I'm thankful to her for getting my ID back.

[246] not long after that a sheriff's deputy arrived and he was not very sympathetic.

[247] He was not comforting whatsoever.

[248] He did take notes while I told him what happened, but he didn't make any effort to go find JD and he just didn't show a lot of concern.

[249] For someone when you're in a situation where you were fearing for your life and you don't know what's going to happen, you're kind of at the mercy of everyone around you in those moments.

[250] It's traumatic.

[251] It's scary.

[252] You're vulnerable.

[253] And it's like, you just need someone to tell you it's going to be okay.

[254] Or you're safe now.

[255] If I'd heard those words, they would have meant the world to me in that moment because I was terrified.

[256] And he didn't offer anything like that.

[257] He seemed like he didn't really want to be there.

[258] But he did take notes and then he told me to call a cab to drive home.

[259] So On top of that fun night, I got to pay $40 to take a cab home.

[260] So I called a cab, and the cab driver ended up being the kindest person.

[261] Out of everyone I dealt with that night, the cab driver truly showed compassion.

[262] He was giving me kind of fatherly advice.

[263] He was very sweet.

[264] He was telling me not to go out with some sketchy guys anymore.

[265] It was very kind.

[266] To this day, I think of him.

[267] I wish I knew who he was so I could send him a card because it made such a difference to have someone show concern and care.

[268] And so he dropped me on.

[269] He could tell I'd been crying.

[270] He asked me if I was okay.

[271] I told him a little bit about what had happened.

[272] And he said, you know, you really need to be more careful.

[273] I know it's scary out there for young girls.

[274] My own father passed away.

[275] And to have someone to show me that fatherly concern was so impactful.

[276] and it meant the world to me. I just can't explain how alone you feel in those moments of trauma.

[277] And it was such a small thing to him, to him that was just doing his job.

[278] A girl gets in your cab sobbing, you should probably ask if she's okay.

[279] But it was really big to me. Thank God I got home safely.

[280] And I just wanted to put that whole night behind me. but a couple weeks later, I got a call from J .D., which I didn't answer, and he left me a voicemail.

[281] He was letting me know that a friend of his was hiring and J .D. was thinking I might be interested in the job.

[282] And he left me this whole voicemail as if nothing had happened.

[283] He sounded so normal and nonchalant that part of me wondered, does he not remember what happened?

[284] Does he not remember that he chased me and screamed at me and pounded on the door?

[285] It was baffling that he could sound so calm and just not even mention it.

[286] To this day, it blows my mind.

[287] Bailey didn't return his call and decided to let the event go.

[288] After all, she had already reported the incident to police and nothing had come of it.

[289] Until months later, when she came across an article online.

[290] I was on MySpace.

[291] That's how long ago this was.

[292] MySpace was my jam, and my friend had posted about Huntington Beach Police Department was looking for anyone who had information on this man who raped a woman and fled the police.

[293] And if anyone had information, to call them.

[294] And lo and behold, I'm staring at a mugshot of JD.

[295] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange.

[296] jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[297] I'm Sachi Cole.

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[299] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King, and no real product to push.

[300] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead.

[301] Selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

[302] To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Judice, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

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[305] I get chills every time I think about this.

[306] I have chills right now.

[307] I had chills then.

[308] And I just remember saying out loud, oh my God, there he is, raped a woman.

[309] And my heart just broke for her.

[310] The local news articles she'd seen on MySpace called for anyone with information about the suspect to contact law enforcement.

[311] So I called Huntington Beach Police Department, and I ended up speaking with the lead detective on J .D.'s case.

[312] and I let him know what happened to me and he started looking for the record of the statement I gave of the night of my incident with JD and he checked two or three times and he couldn't find it.

[313] So it turns out that the sheriff's deputy who came out that night never filed a report and I don't know if that was intentional or not.

[314] I don't know if he dismissed me and thought it wasn't important.

[315] I don't know if it got lost and was an honest mistake.

[316] I will never know.

[317] regardless, it wasn't there.

[318] So the detective asked me some other questions and I was able to tell him what J .D.'s apartment looked like in his car, et cetera.

[319] So he then told me that I was quote unquote lucky because later in that year, J .D. started drugging, raping, and videoing women.

[320] The detective at one point actually said, hang on, I'm just going to make sure that none of these videos have your name on them.

[321] It's hard to describe what I felt in that moment because it was this mix of relief and pain.

[322] And every one of those girls whose names was there, I just ache for.

[323] And I hate that they went through that.

[324] I do feel lucky that it wasn't me, but it shouldn't have been them either.

[325] It shouldn't have been anyone.

[326] After she was done giving her statement to the detective, he let her know he'd be in touch if they needed anything further from her.

[327] Because my name was on the witness list, his lawyer had access to that information.

[328] And I started getting calls from the Orange County men's facility.

[329] And I never answered.

[330] I was terrified to answer.

[331] But when I told the detective about it, his advice was that it was okay to answer because the line is recorded.

[332] But the last person I wanted to talk to was James or someone that he would have call me to intimidate me. So I never answered those calls.

[333] And I ended up being subpoenaed to be a witness against J .D. James.

[334] I should probably call him James.

[335] That's his real name.

[336] And the case was postponed a lot.

[337] I'm not exactly sure on time, but it was it was a lot of, I'd get letters like this has been postponed or there's a continuance, et cetera, since I was on the witness list, they kept me updated.

[338] I didn't end up needing to testify in the end because there were so many other witnesses.

[339] And for many of those witnesses, there was video evidence.

[340] So my testimony wasn't needed.

[341] And James Ernest Bledsoe was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison.

[342] And I actually sleep better at night because of that.

[343] I don't have nightmares anymore.

[344] It's been a long time.

[345] And I wish I could tell every one of the survivors that I think of you.

[346] I care so much about you.

[347] I hope you found peace somehow.

[348] And it breaks my heart that it takes video evidence for someone.

[349] to be put away.

[350] The world is a safer place without him on the streets.

[351] I also at the same time hate that it seemingly takes video evidence for someone to be put behind bars.

[352] I feel like we give the benefit of the doubt in spades to men and then we automatically doubt women.

[353] And I see this happen over and over.

[354] I can think of so many women I know who have a story.

[355] And, And most of them never went forward because most of them thought that if they did go forward, they would be met with doubt, that they would be met with disdain, that they would be met with, well, why did you blank?

[356] I'm so grateful that I listened to my instincts.

[357] Every time that little chill went out my spine, I trusted it.

[358] And I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't.

[359] I don't know what his plan was.

[360] I don't know if he had a plan, but you've got to trust that feeling.

[361] My mom calls it the uh -oh feeling, and that's what it is.

[362] When you have that voice telling you, you're not safe right now, you have to listen to that voice and get the hell out.

[363] Absolutely.

[364] And one of the things that we talked about before when we first met on the phone was the fawn response that you had.

[365] And you had shared that was a new term for you.

[366] and we kind of connected on that because I tend to have a similar response to trauma at times.

[367] And when he had the cell phone behind his back and you sort of changed maneuvers and instead switched to that fawn response and it ended up working, I think it's just a really good example of why sometimes trauma survivors switch gears because sometimes when you're dealing with a narcissist or a psychopath, you can sort of use their ego against them, if that makes sense, or their blind spots.

[368] Yes.

[369] And you were able to sort of trick him back because of that, which is just like so thoughtful in the moment of you to think to switch tactics and do whatever you needed to do to stay alive.

[370] And I'm so thankful for the cab driver and the woman who brought you your stuff.

[371] thank goodness for their kindness.

[372] But did it feel almost like a betrayal to have that neighbor close the door when you're obviously in distress at 4 a .m.?

[373] When he closed the door, it was like all my hopes died.

[374] And I think about how when survivors tell their story, I feel like society kind of picks apart everything they did quote unquote wrong.

[375] We want to say, why were you there?

[376] Like with my story, someone could say, why did you go home with a guy you didn't know?

[377] Why did you drink?

[378] They pick it apart.

[379] But why didn't he, the neighbor, help me?

[380] At the end of the day, it's James's fault for being a cruel monster, right?

[381] It's nobody's fault but James is.

[382] But that neighbor had the chance to help.

[383] Even if he'd shut the door and called the police, that would have helped.

[384] But he walked away.

[385] And I do feel like as a society, we kind of don't want to get involved with stuff that is in our business.

[386] But keeping people safe is everyone's business.

[387] If you see a woman who's clearly fearing for her life, please help her.

[388] You don't have to run in the middle of it and fight someone off, but call someone.

[389] He had the opportunity.

[390] And I just feel like it's so telling about how we treat women in our society and how we're willing to just look the other way.

[391] Absolutely.

[392] And do you remember when they used to do those Dateline or 2020 episodes where they would set up these fake scenarios where someone was in distress and then they'd film people's responses?

[393] Do you know what I'm talking about?

[394] Yes.

[395] And it'd be like what would you do in the situation?

[396] Yes.

[397] And then you'd see 10 people just walk by like nothing was happening and then there'd be that one person.

[398] And I just think it's so important to be that one person.

[399] Yep.

[400] It's really taught me. a lot and I want to be that one person and I want to teach my kids to be that one person.

[401] And I know, especially as a woman, it can be dangerous to get involved.

[402] So I'm not advocating getting yourself into danger and then possibly becoming a victim yourself.

[403] But there's always that opportunity to call or to get someone else's attention.

[404] Just something.

[405] Don't shut the door.

[406] I grew up evangelical, which is a sect of Christianity.

[407] And to kind of To sum up the way my family viewed church and religion, we went to church three times a week, and my parents basically considered that anyone who went less than three times a week probably wasn't quote unquote really Christian.

[408] There was a lot of emphasis on Bible reading, prayer, giving everything to God, and it affected every aspect of our lives.

[409] We definitely weren't a family that went just on Easter and Christmas.

[410] It was like our whole love.

[411] lives were revolving around Jesus and the church.

[412] At my church, there was definitely a lot of teaching about respecting men.

[413] And I feel like deferring to men was implied.

[414] It gets what you did.

[415] They definitely talked about within marriage, deferring to men, and submitting to your husbands, et cetera.

[416] And that's what a godly wife does.

[417] So I was raised with those ideals.

[418] And I was also raised, it's kind of this weird dichotomy.

[419] It's like men need to be respected and then also you don't want to hurt their feelings.

[420] So, you know, if a guy is flirting with you, you need to be polite.

[421] I definitely had that mindset that I never wanted to hurt a guy's feelings.

[422] And looking back, I just feel like that set me up for not failure.

[423] I don't want to put that word on myself, but it made me susceptible to some interactions that were not good.

[424] And I feel like I can look back on a lot of things that happened to me. And I think if I had been better equipped, I would have probably left a lot of situations earlier than I did.

[425] I would have seen those red flags sooner and maybe had the capacity to say, I'm going to walk away and to be willing to be rude.

[426] I'm going to raise my kids knowing that if someone's making you feel uncomfortable, You can be rude.

[427] You don't owe anyone politeness.

[428] I can totally relate to your sentiments.

[429] And I don't know if you've seen this tweet that was going around recently, but it's by someone on Twitter named Aaron Hoyland.

[430] And it says, is she being rude or have you been socially conditioned into believing that women should be warm, positive, and friendly at all times and are uncomfortable when they don't adhere to that behavior?

[431] And what you were just speaking to really reminded me of that.

[432] And when I saw that, I was like, freaking amen.

[433] I think we're socially conditioned from such a young age to be cute and quiet and submissive in a lot of ways in religions that are popular here in the United States and within our culture overall.

[434] I agree.

[435] I think we're so conditioned from a young age to kind of make ourselves smaller and to not be too loud, not be to anything, really.

[436] It's almost like if you're passionate, if you're big, if you're loud and unapologetically taking up space, it's like that's threatening to people somehow.

[437] And I still don't understand why.

[438] I actually wanted to ask you as well, what has your healing journey process been like?

[439] I think I downplayed how bad it was for a long time.

[440] That's one of my coping mechanisms is minimizing.

[441] So I will tell myself, it wasn't that bad.

[442] You're alive, so it wasn't that bad.

[443] It could have been worse.

[444] So it wasn't that bad.

[445] And I waited so long to seek professional help.

[446] I wish I'd done it sooner, but I've been in therapy for about eight months now.

[447] And the amount of healing that has happened just within those months has been incredible.

[448] There are times where I'll say something to my therapist, and then she simply says it back to me, and it's an epiphany moment.

[449] It's like, how did I not see that before?

[450] I would urge anyone who has the option of therapy to seek it out because it is life -changing.

[451] There are so many things that it's taught me, and just day -to -day, the sense of peace I feel now versus before is tremendous.

[452] And I think for me, the biggest factor in my healing, though, has been that James is behind bars for the rest of his life.

[453] And I truly hope that more survivors will have that resolution.

[454] Absolutely.

[455] Thank you again so much for being on the podcast.

[456] I truly appreciate it.

[457] And it's been so lovely getting to know you.

[458] Thank you.

[459] It's been an honor.

[460] And I just want to tell you how validating it was when you mentioned the fawn response.

[461] Something that I feel and experienced.

[462] Having a label for me is so helpful.

[463] It was like, wait, that's a thing.

[464] It's not just me in my moment recalling lifetime movies.

[465] This is something people do.

[466] That was incredibly helpful.

[467] So thank you.

[468] I felt the same way when it was shared with me. So I'm happy that we get to pay it forward as well.

[469] You're doing a service for a lot of people by sharing this story.

[470] Thank you.

[471] Something Was Wrong is an Audio Chuck production, created and hosted by Tiffany Reese.

[472] Our theme song was originally composed by Gladrags, covered this season by Basic Comfort.

[473] So what do you think, Chuck, do you approve?

[474] If you like Something Was Wrong, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery, app or on Apple Podcasts.

[475] Prime members can listen ad -free on Amazon Music.

[476] Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wendery .com slash survey.