Willie Nelson

[0] Hi, my name is Willie Nelson, and I feel great about being Conan's friend.

[1] Back to school, ring the bell, brandy shoes, walking blues, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are going to be friends.

[2] I can tell that we are going to be friends.

[3] Hello there, this is Conan O 'Brien, kind of working on my DJ voice these days.

[4] Yeah, I don't know.

[5] Hold on your phone for while we're just.

[6] doing the opening of the show.

[7] I'm paying attention.

[8] I laughed at what you were saying.

[9] I swear to God, I'm starting the show and you know I'm starting the show and I look over and you're holding your phone and replying to who you're replying to.

[10] Honestly, Liza.

[11] My wife.

[12] Yes.

[13] I don't reply to my wife.

[14] Okay.

[15] I haven't responded to any of her emails in like four years.

[16] We have lawyers for that.

[17] What are the lawyers do?

[18] Trust me. We have what's called a slow divorce going.

[19] Liza and I are separating over a 35 -year period.

[20] very slowly and this is the first thing is no email exchanges for a year but we still live together and we're quite affectionate but this is the slow this is it's a slow separation imagine paint slowly peeling off a house but anyway I can't believe you're on the yeah just put that away this second time in recent memory this has been on the phone turn it over so you can't see it Matt what are you doing real quick I'm sorry I'm getting on my phone he doesn't have a phone Matt has a pneumatic tube messages go I live at Home Depot Yes He's so in love with technology of the 40s And he opens it up And there's a vacuum sound Oh, look at this Does he just have tubes going to all his friends' houses?

[21] He has tubes going to all his friends' houses And the different stores he uses He has pneumatic tubes going everywhere Excuse me, fellows, I've got to check this out No, you better be careful because you recently texted me some blackmail information and some collateral about you.

[22] We'll get to that in a second.

[23] I promise we will get to that in a second.

[24] I just want to establish that Sona is going to be off the phone from now on.

[25] I'm off the phone.

[26] I was listening to you, though.

[27] I could do both.

[28] No, no. Your whole generation thinks it can multitask, and that's why so many people are dying.

[29] Oh, what?

[30] Yeah.

[31] Come on.

[32] Your generation's like, I'm going to send this text and clean this shotgun.

[33] Cabloy.

[34] Oops.

[35] You sound like such an old man. It's true.

[36] You always do everything.

[37] Oh, I'm going to operate on this eye.

[38] I pick out the right emoji to send to my friend.

[39] Oops, blind for life.

[40] No, it's true.

[41] These are all you know what I'm reading from?

[42] The newspaper.

[43] Oh, really?

[44] Which newspaper?

[45] Oh, please.

[46] The one everyone reads.

[47] Oh, that one.

[48] Okay.

[49] Have you even said the title of this podcast?

[50] Oh, well, who cares?

[51] If people have clicked on Conan O 'Brien needs a friend, I love that you're such a stickler.

[52] You're such an anal stickler.

[53] Boy, it sounds like a device.

[54] What?

[55] Fresh up the marriage.

[56] I bought myself an anal Stickler.

[57] Oh, man. Excuse me. This is good stuff.

[58] Hence the divorce.

[59] Oh, please.

[60] It's a slow divorce.

[61] It's a 35 -year slow separation.

[62] By the time you finally separate, the kids are like in their 50s and they don't care.

[63] No, it's what I'm saying is true.

[64] What I'm saying is exactly true.

[65] Oh, okay.

[66] If you say it's true, then I guess it's true.

[67] The newspaper that everyone reads says that my generation blinds people.

[68] Well, you're multitasked too much.

[69] I'm sorry.

[70] I'm good at it.

[71] No, you're not.

[72] Clearly not, because you didn't even know we were doing a podcast.

[73] I heard what you said.

[74] What did I say?

[75] There we go.

[76] Guilty.

[77] By the way, guilty.

[78] Guilty.

[79] You are not the model of focus yourself.

[80] I think I am a laser beam.

[81] I am a laser beam of focus.

[82] You could use me to open a bank safe.

[83] You're napalm.

[84] You're just a globulous burning mass. Yes.

[85] And I defoliate trees.

[86] But so what?

[87] No, but I will say that, I didn't think it was necessary to say, and this is Conan O 'Brien needs a friend, the podcast, where, you know what I mean?

[88] I think I was just trying to undercut the bickering and get us back on track, you know?

[89] Although you did gang up on me, but thank you.

[90] I'm sorry.

[91] I do apologize about that because if I don't have you, I don't have anyone.

[92] Thank you, Matt.

[93] Forgive me. We have to stick.

[94] What is that?

[95] That's the pneumatic tube, but you just got another message.

[96] Your, uh, your, your, your straw boater is ready.

[97] You just, you have to drive to Los Felis to the house.

[98] from you from you in text you said anyway thanks for your expertise and know that i have a working 1940s rotary phone in my office that i use regularly fine ammunition for our next i did i thought that it would be only fair to be honest with you that i'm just as bad as you uh andy richter a bunch of years ago gave me a repurposed 1940s phone it's gorgeous it's got a rotary dial and um just that great heavy weight of an old phone and I have it on my desk and it works because the electronics have been updated and I love picking that thing up and making a call No I know but I Fine, go ahead fine when I do it it's cool It's so cool but I love yelling into that thing I become a different person You know the way when you put on a certain kind of like a really good suit it does change the way you carry yourself when I talk on this phone I start telling people there's a fire McCready's Bond get all the boys over there see what do you hear what do you say we gotta go come on hey you I'm just I love that I love you know we've got to get some more milk where's the milk man you know I want I want cream and a giant glass pitcher you know what though if Matt did this you would just I don't think so you know what I would do I would be understanding and I appreciate Matt okay is it Max or Matt I don't know Spent a while.

[99] Why don't you call me on your Klondike 6500 before you'd find out.

[100] Hello?

[101] Operator?

[102] Get me Klondike 522.

[103] Yes.

[104] Private eye?

[105] Generic private eye.

[106] Max Gourley, private eye.

[107] I want Max Gourley, private eye.

[108] Hey, I hear you're the top dick in this town.

[109] Everything's Jake, see?

[110] What's the case?

[111] I want you to tell this son of obsession.

[112] She's a leggy dame who likes...

[113] I think she's buying gummy bears down at the war.

[114] that are laced with PCP.

[115] She's a shady type.

[116] She's always high as a kite.

[117] I think she likes those jazz cigarettes.

[118] You know what I'm saying?

[119] She gets them from the sailors down at the wharf.

[120] I want you to tear them.

[121] She's a reefer addict from way back.

[122] She's got giant hair.

[123] What the hell?

[124] Massive hair.

[125] I don't like this bit.

[126] This could be a rough one.

[127] You're going to have to go to Altadina.

[128] It could get nasty over there.

[129] Altadina 6500.

[130] Altadina 622.

[131] We're looking for a Sonom of Sessian.

[132] Disappeared, eh?

[133] Took off with some spiked gummy worms, did she?

[134] I can't even join in on this.

[135] No, you can't.

[136] You know why?

[137] You haven't spent thousands of hours watching shitty old movies.

[138] Yeah.

[139] Like Matt Gurley and I. I would be so happy if there was still an operator.

[140] It's kind of what Siri, I guess we've come back around because it used to be, we'd just pick up the phone and go, hello, Beatrice, connect me to Matt Goreley.

[141] And Beatrice would be the local operator and we've come back to that now.

[142] Siri?

[143] We have not.

[144] In a way we have.

[145] You know, Siri's like, hey, Siri, what's the temperature today?

[146] Or Siri, find me a sex shop that doesn't rat out celebrities.

[147] What's so, that is so specific.

[148] Not that specific.

[149] It's very, very specific.

[150] The one on Robertson.

[151] Oh, this must be Conan.

[152] Oh, Brian.

[153] Conan, you were just there two weeks ago.

[154] I know, Siri.

[155] I wish Siri was like Beatrice, the old operator.

[156] Oh.

[157] Conan, you seem to have a problem.

[158] You've been to that sex shop nine times.

[159] in two days.

[160] That's not of your business, Siri.

[161] I've got to get myself an anal stickler, and I'm in a rush, see?

[162] Oh, no. All right, we have no time for this foolishness, I want to call it, Sona.

[163] You haven't introduced me and Matt yet, have you?

[164] Oh, yeah, this is my assistant, Sona, a 14 -year -old girl who's addicted to her phone.

[165] And Matt Goreley, someone I respect, who's very good at his job.

[166] What the fuck?

[167] Sorry, I do respect you, Matt.

[168] You do a very good job, and you know it.

[169] Thank you.

[170] I appreciate it, so do you.

[171] Oh, this gut.

[172] I hate this one.

[173] This part's awful.

[174] This is gross.

[175] Let's get to the show.

[176] Hey, you're trying to turn me and mad against each other.

[177] I know what you're doing.

[178] It's working.

[179] My guest today, we, there's no time to waste.

[180] There's no time.

[181] You have to do it.

[182] Yeah, and I will do it right now and you're going to be quiet.

[183] My guest today, no, seriously, we have a legend on today.

[184] In addition to me, that's two legends.

[185] Here we go.

[186] That was insane.

[187] Guess what?

[188] Even I, even I'm ashamed.

[189] Even I'm ashamed.

[190] This is a redheaded stranger and a redheaded monster, narcissist, megalomaniac.

[191] That's a little long for an album title.

[192] No, I am seriously odd and thrilled.

[193] My guest today is a legendary musician, a Grammy award -winning singer and songwriter, with 70 studio albums.

[194] His latest album, First Rose of Spring, is available now.

[195] He also has a new book, which is absolutely fantastic.

[196] Me and Sister Bobby, True Tales of the Family Band.

[197] I am honored and just floored that he is with us today.

[198] Willie Nelson, welcome.

[199] You've been very good to me. You and Waylon Jennings came on my late -night show.

[200] I think I was just about three years in.

[201] I couldn't believe that I was in the same room with you guys.

[202] And I'll never forget this.

[203] You handed over your iconic guitar trigger that you've had every great artist in the world sign.

[204] The thing's falling apart.

[205] And you said, sign it.

[206] And you said, and don't just do it with a felt tip.

[207] You've got to take a ballpoint pen.

[208] And you've got to dig it in there and sign it.

[209] and I signed my name so small because I was ashamed.

[210] I was ashamed to be on that great guitar.

[211] It's the smallest I've ever signed my name.

[212] Leon Russell is the guy that started all that.

[213] He had me sign his guitar at one time.

[214] And I said, fine, I'll sign yours if you'll sign mine.

[215] And he was the first guy to sign my guitar.

[216] Well, it is amazing.

[217] I cannot believe you've kept that guitar going.

[218] All your fans, I mean, that guitar is as big a star as you.

[219] That guitar, they set it out on.

[220] stage before you perform, they put out Trigger, and fans rush up to take a picture of Trigger.

[221] And otherwise, if someone didn't know better, Unremarkable Martin Nylon String Guitar, you and that guitar are equally famous, and it's still with you.

[222] Where is Trigger right now?

[223] You got it nearby?

[224] Oh, it's right back over there.

[225] All right.

[226] Well, just take care of that thing, for God's sake.

[227] Yeah.

[228] My favorite guitar player has always been Django Reinhart.

[229] He played a De Angelico guitar, and I tried to find one that sounded like his, and it took a long time to find trigger, but I finally found one.

[230] You know, it's incredible.

[231] You just mentioned Django Reinhardt, and that's kind of where I wanted to start.

[232] And I'm going to say this about anyone who endeavors to be artistic in any field.

[233] You are the example that I like to use of someone who refused to comfort.

[234] and demanded to do it their way.

[235] You were not a snob or singular about it has to be one style.

[236] You grew up as a boy, and I didn't even realize this in your little community in Texas, you were hearing not just the blues and not just spiritual music.

[237] There was a Czech population, so you were listening to Polka.

[238] Absolutely, and the SPJSC Hall was just six miles south of Abbott.

[239] where I grew up and, you know, they were a lot of Catholics there and they liked to drink beer and dance, so they...

[240] Willie, I know about the Catholics, okay?

[241] You don't have to lecture me about the Catholics.

[242] No, it was praise.

[243] I'm quite familiar with, and I'm sorry they were around, but what are you going to do?

[244] What are you going to do?

[245] Join them.

[246] You know, it's amazing because you mentioned, you know, you drew on all these different styles.

[247] You had to, you learned to play polka and you didn't have, I think some people get very set in their minds about what makes, say, great country music.

[248] It didn't feel to me like that was every year interest.

[249] You wanted to make music and you drew on anything that you could get your ears on, literally anything.

[250] Yeah, I loved all kind of music and still do.

[251] And my sister plays everything beautifully.

[252] And she could play songs like Stardust, moonlight in Vermont when I was really young so that was a brand new thing for me and I learned a lot just sitting on the piano stool yeah I want to mention this this is as good a time as any because you just mentioned it you've written a book with your sister me and sister Bobby and this is the story Willie Nelson and Bobby Nelson of you and your sister this is an absolutely lovely book it's heartbreaking at times it's beautiful you'll do a chapter then she'll do a chapter then you'll do a chapter and she'll do a chapter and you're both amazing musicians.

[253] It feels like you're trading licks.

[254] It really does feel like you're trading licks about your incredible life.

[255] It's a beautiful book.

[256] It really is a book about family and it's about despair and it's about pushing your way through that despair.

[257] The sheer volume of difficulty that you and Bobby went through is mind -boggling.

[258] Well, yeah, especially little sister.

[259] She had to go through a lot of bad things.

[260] Something I love about the book is how candid she is about the pain she experienced growing up that you both experienced.

[261] You're both very candid in this book.

[262] You both have each other and you have your grandmother.

[263] Your parents are out of the picture pretty early.

[264] You have your grandmother and your grandfather.

[265] He passes away when you're fairly young and your grandmother is really the rock who you hang on to.

[266] And you've got you and your sister.

[267] It's unbelievable how candid she is about her different relationships, her unhappy marriages, losing her kids at one point and then later to get them back.

[268] Your difficulty in the business.

[269] I don't think most people really understand, Willie, what a hard time you had for years getting started.

[270] I was just talking to somebody while ago about one night in Ridgetop, Tennessee, where I used to live.

[271] Me and Hank Cochran.

[272] Good songwriter, buddy of mine, and we decided we'd write some songs.

[273] And we wrote seven songs.

[274] And the last song that we wrote was, what can you do to me now?

[275] The next day, my house burned.

[276] Yeah.

[277] Yeah.

[278] Your house in Rich Tom burned down.

[279] I think it's because you wrote that song.

[280] So I just want to put that out there to the insurance company in case you got any money.

[281] I think they should get that money back.

[282] But first of all, you sold Encyclopedia's Doors.

[283] door to door for a while.

[284] Yes, I did.

[285] And you were pretty good at it.

[286] Do you ever think I should have stuck with the encyclopedias?

[287] Well, I'm back selling books again.

[288] That's right.

[289] You got me helping you, too.

[290] And guess what, Willie, I'm not getting shit.

[291] I'm not getting paid anything.

[292] I can't believe.

[293] You know, one of the things that's so, your personality comes through so strongly in this book, and your sister testifies to it, you are always smooth with a line.

[294] And people always liked you.

[295] You were likable, and you would use that.

[296] You used everything you could to get by.

[297] So when you were selling encyclopedia's door to door, you still remember how you'd get your foot in the door.

[298] These people couldn't even afford an encyclopedia, and you felt bad about it, but you had to make some money.

[299] You would sell them a full set.

[300] Well, I sure try.

[301] You know, I'd get on the phone and call people on the phone.

[302] I had to connect with the phone department so I could get all the new phone listings.

[303] So I'd call them up and try to say, hey, I'm with you.

[304] American Association, not trying to sell you a set of books.

[305] I just want to talk to you about it.

[306] If you put one in your homes without the normal cost, would it be something that you would appreciate?

[307] Thank you very much.

[308] I'll see you at 7 o 'clock.

[309] Yeah, and then you'd show up and get your foot in the door.

[310] I'm going to sell you something more valuable than gold.

[311] I think that was your line, wasn't it?

[312] A friend of mine, Jerry, she had back then was my trainer.

[313] He took me out to show me how to do it, you know.

[314] And one time we were in this house and these people said, And, well, we never make a decision like this and spend this much money.

[315] It was like $3 ,400 without praying about it.

[316] And Jerry said, oh, by all means, let us pray.

[317] You got on the ground?

[318] You got on your knees.

[319] And when it was through, they said, well, I don't think we can buy them because the Lord didn't tell us to buy these books.

[320] And Jerry said, well, he didn't tell you not to, did it?

[321] well willie i'm going to get on my knees for me and sister bobby and i'm going to tell everybody if you want this is just a fend absolutely a beautiful book and i think it's inspirational i mean i can't even begin to list all the jobs you had besides selling encyclopedies you sold vacuum cleaners you you did uh auto simple auto repair uh you were a dj for i mean a piece of your career and you were you were good at it oh i had fun what do you think made you a good DJ.

[322] I'm full of bull, you know.

[323] Well, Willie, let me tell you, that helps a lot in this.

[324] I've relied on that plenty in my career just to get by.

[325] But, you know, you've always had a great sense of humor.

[326] I'm told Johnny Cash, when he was feeling down, used to pick up the phone and call you and say, Willie, tell me a joke, and he wanted a dirty joke.

[327] Yeah, more than once that happened.

[328] And, you know, I always had a dirty joke for him.

[329] You just always, and if you heard one you'd go, I got to remember this for Johnny, this will help Johnny out of the blues.

[330] Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

[331] Like a sign on the whorehouse said, sorry, we're closed, beat it.

[332] You know, it's amazing in this story that you tell and that your sister tells, you obviously have talent, and early on, you start writing songs and you start having some success as a song writer, but Nashville wanted to put you into this formula.

[333] And I've seen the pictures.

[334] We've all seen the pictures of Willie Nelson in the 1960s in Nashville, and you're wearing a turtleneck and a sports jacket, and you've got a short haircut.

[335] And anyone who sees it now says, how did this happen to Willie Nelson?

[336] It's because you hadn't figured out how to get out of that system yet and how to just be yourself.

[337] Well, that's true.

[338] I mean, there was a certain thing you did, and certain things you didn't do and I couldn't go along with a lot of it so I decided I'd come back down here where I play the broken spoke or whatever and they don't care what I wear.

[339] Right and it's an amazing transition because you're living in Tennessee and you're working in Nashville and you're trying very hard to fit a certain mold and you had a lot of despair I mean I saw this in that terrific Ken Burns documentary on country music.

[340] You got once so full of despair, you lay down on the street in Nashville and thought, I hope a car runs over me and you just lay there.

[341] Fortunately, it was around midnight, and there wasn't that much traffic.

[342] Thank God.

[343] Thank God.

[344] There was no traffic that night.

[345] Do you imagine someone driving?

[346] I mean, I'm just thinking about the driver's perspective.

[347] Oh, look, it's Willie Nelson lying on the street.

[348] I think I'll just go around.

[349] him.

[350] I think people, I mean, there was so much despair.

[351] Then your place burns down in Tennessee and you say, screw it, to put it a little more kindly, I'm out of here and you came back to Texas and then, I mean, I've seen the footage, you transform.

[352] You become more and more organically yourself.

[353] You've got the bandana.

[354] You've got the hair.

[355] You've got the beard.

[356] And you're playing the kind of music you want to play with your friends, and everything explodes for you?

[357] Well, yeah, it was a good decision.

[358] I came back down here where I knew everybody, and they knew me. We had our first Fourth of July picnic, and those went great, so we had two, three, 10, 15.

[359] People enjoy getting together, throwing away all their political ideas, whatever they might have or whatever, and listen to music.

[360] And I found out.

[361] that to be a good therapy for me too.

[362] What's amazing is to see you when you fall into that groove and you're playing with your friends, you're playing with Wayland and you're in Texas and you're letting your freak flag fly and you're finding that music, it's all working for you.

[363] You look so happy like it took years and years and years but you finally became the person you always were.

[364] Does that make sense?

[365] Well, pretty much.

[366] I I didn't change much.

[367] I haven't changed much since I was a kid.

[368] I pretty much stayed the way I, nothing really has happened to make me change my way of thinking.

[369] And that helped a lot.

[370] I've always had this theory.

[371] I don't know what you think about it, but for years I was trying to be a certain kind of person that I thought people wanted me to be.

[372] And the minute I got, I just gave up on that and started to more do things that I thoroughly enjoyed and more thoroughly be myself is when I really felt like I connected with my audience.

[373] And I feel like on a much bigger scale, that's what you did.

[374] I think so.

[375] And Leon Russell showed me a lot and taught me a lot about people and music and how to entertain a crowd and how much influence music can have on people and vice versa.

[376] There's a great energy exchange that takes a place out there.

[377] And it's something that, I'll start to say money came by, but maybe it can't.

[378] Well, it's good to, you know, I always say I'd do this job for free, and then I make sure we edit that part out because I like the money.

[379] I think you like the money.

[380] And but it is true that you get into this place where watching you and watching some of those shows, especially from the mid -1970s, or after 75, from 75 on, I would say with red -headed Stranger, I see anyone who enjoys the vibe at a Grateful Dead show was getting the same thing watching you and your friends play.

[381] Yeah, and, you know, it's still the same way because audiences, Rolling Stone audience, my audience, there's pretty much the same people.

[382] The people who really enjoy music, getting together, clapping their hands.

[383] That's a pretty good therapy itself, just clapping your hands.

[384] I read this story about this guy in India who got up every morning ran down the street clapping his hands and singing.

[385] Next thing, you know, people are joining him.

[386] And then there was hundreds of people out there in the morning.

[387] And their ritual was singing and clapping their hands.

[388] I hope he's gotten some help since then.

[389] I hope.

[390] They had some good shit over there.

[391] I mean, I think one morning, that's fine.

[392] But if he starts doing that every day, you know, you've got to start wondering what's he smoking and is he okay?

[393] And did he get back home already?

[394] The running and clapping has got to stop.

[395] You know, I have to say something that I didn't appreciate.

[396] I've always been a fan of your music.

[397] And then it took a while for me to realize what an incredible guitarist you are.

[398] And a singer -songwriter, it's always felt to me, doesn't have to be a great guitar player.

[399] A singer -songwriter can be, and I don't mean to disparage them, but a Dylan or a John Lennon can be a fine acoustic player for banging out a melody.

[400] They just have to be able to do their song.

[401] You are an incredible artist on the guitar.

[402] And I was going to say, you're a much better guitar player than you have to be.

[403] Well, I always overdid everything.

[404] I mean, I just enjoy some of the solos you play, especially on Trigger.

[405] They're incredibly evocative.

[406] They almost bring tears to my eyes.

[407] They would if I had emotions and a real soul.

[408] Really, I don't know what happened.

[409] I lost that a long time ago.

[410] But your playing is so beautiful, and it's so interesting that you say you're influenced by Django Reinhart, because I think there might be people out there right now who don't know who he was, but he was a player from the 1930s and 40s, who played because he had been in a terrible accident, his cord hand, he could only use really, fingers.

[411] People told him you'll never play the guitar again.

[412] His accident happened while he was a guitarist, and he developed a style.

[413] And I think it sounds somewhat similar to you in that you were determined.

[414] Nora Jones, you know who she is.

[415] She said that I played like Django with one finger.

[416] Let's pretend that's a compliment.

[417] I thought it was.

[418] you know and I was I was amazed too that I think your decision to amplify to just drop an amplifier in trigger and say no I'm not going to go with this with a big electric that's what everybody else does I'm just going to put an amplifier in this essentially classical guitar this beat up classical guitar and one of the things I got to tell you is I always know it's you even before you start singing if I've got the radio on and I hear that guitar that guitar.

[419] I know it's you.

[420] Yeah, it's had its own sound.

[421] It's got its own thing, and I think it sounds like you, and your voice and that, I don't know how long it took you to figure out, this is the sound for me. You must have known pretty quickly, this is it.

[422] Well, again, it's like when I heard played the guitar, it reminded me of the DeAngelico guitar that Django played, and I really love that sound.

[423] And so, you know, I've hung on to that guitar, and instead of trying to play another guitar, I put some wires in there and said, keep it going, you know.

[424] Your sister was an incredible, his incredible piano player and played the Hammond, Oregon and figured that out.

[425] And, I mean, she tells her story, but the theme of this book is really family.

[426] You guys, no matter what was happening, you'd always find a way.

[427] Sometimes you'd be living in different parts of the United States.

[428] You always found a way to come back together.

[429] And that seems to have been a big theme in your life, having so many, keeping everyone close.

[430] Yeah, we still say hello every day.

[431] That's it, hello?

[432] Hello, goodbye.

[433] Okay, well, what a rich relationship.

[434] Yeah, yeah.

[435] Some things you don't have to put in words.

[436] Exactly, exactly.

[437] Sometimes it's nice to throw one other thing in there, you know, but.

[438] Like love.

[439] Whatever, or just, you know, may I hold, you know, oh, look at that tree.

[440] You see why no one wants me to write a song.

[441] I did a concert tour.

[442] It was mostly comedy, but I threw some music in there.

[443] And I would, I don't know if you remember this on it, but I would end every show with On the Road again.

[444] I would play it.

[445] That's an absolutely gorgeous song.

[446] I butchered it.

[447] I probably hurt that song standing.

[448] And I apologize for that.

[449] I've always felt a little guilty about that.

[450] But good Lord, does that get people moving, that song?

[451] Well, yeah, thank you for singing it.

[452] I'd love to hear you do it.

[453] You really don't.

[454] You know, I got this nice package from Willie Nelson.

[455] And I'm so excited, when you get a package from Willie Nelson, you think one thing.

[456] Don't you, Sona?

[457] I hope for some type of marijuana.

[458] Yes, that's what, yeah.

[459] And what we get is coffee.

[460] Now, it looks good.

[461] It looks good, Willie.

[462] Don't smoke it.

[463] Too late.

[464] Too late, Willie.

[465] I smoked four pounds of coffee.

[466] And I've been up.

[467] for 17 days.

[468] But I wrote some incredible music.

[469] No, you sent me, I mean, you've got Willie's Remedy, Dark Roast Whole Bean Coffee, and it says it's made of organically grown American hemp.

[470] I'm just saying when I saw hemp, you understand, it's in a brown paper bag, and it's hemp from Willie Nelson, why there'd be a misunderstanding.

[471] No, no, no, no, no go there.

[472] Don't go there.

[473] Don't go there.

[474] You smoked pot on the roof of the White House.

[475] What do you mean, don't go there?

[476] I heard about that.

[477] You were there.

[478] You can't say I heard about that.

[479] You were there.

[480] I almost remember it.

[481] Willie, I got to tell you something.

[482] We are at a time in our nation's politics where people are very divided and there's a lot of anger.

[483] I think everybody can agree that smoking pot on the roof of the White House is something that could bring the United States together, I think.

[484] Yeah.

[485] brought me together.

[486] And it was with Jimmy Carter's son, I believe.

[487] Oh, Chippo, yeah.

[488] We also went down to the basement where they have a bowling alley down there.

[489] And I didn't bowl or nothing.

[490] But then we, that night I got to sleep in the Lincoln bedroom.

[491] Uh -huh.

[492] So that's a pretty cool place.

[493] Right.

[494] So can I just paint the picture?

[495] You're on the roof, getting high.

[496] Then you're in the bowling alley in the basement of the White House.

[497] And then you're in the Lincoln bedroom.

[498] having much better dreams than Abraham Lincoln ever had.

[499] Maybe so, maybe so.

[500] I'm told I'm a historian.

[501] Lincoln used to hang out in that bowling alley sometimes.

[502] And when the Civil War...

[503] And up on the roof, yeah.

[504] When the Civil War wasn't going well, he'd, you know, he'd choke up a little bit, and then he'd go to bed, and everything was copacetic after that.

[505] I cannot believe, I think this is your...

[506] Is this your 70th album that you've just put out?

[507] Sounds about right.

[508] Are you even counting at this point?

[509] I mean, that's just...

[510] Oh, no, no, no. It's incredible.

[511] And I would think that you have pretty much, you know, people say, like, well, they look at someone like a Willie Nelson, they say, well, he must have met everybody that he wanted to meet.

[512] I can't think of a recording artist that you haven't worked with.

[513] Is there someone who you idolize that you didn't get to work with?

[514] Well, yeah, I would have liked to have done something with Hank Williams.

[515] Yeah, oh, my God, yeah.

[516] But I was fortunate enough to get to play with a lot of my heroes like Bob Wills.

[517] Yeah.

[518] In fact, when I was 14 years old, I booked Bob Wills.

[519] I was the promoter on a gig in Whitney, Texas, and I bought him for, I think, $1 ,000 back in those days.

[520] Paid him off and didn't make a quarter, but I booked Bob Wills.

[521] So in a way, you made no money, but you got to meet him, which is the things we will do to meet our heroes.

[522] And I got to sing with him.

[523] And the funny part of it was my phrasing is kind of crazy.

[524] So he said, I didn't know who to come in and do my ahas.

[525] That's right.

[526] Ah!

[527] I know that aha.

[528] Aha.

[529] That's it.

[530] I used to do that when I wanted to tease my brothers.

[531] I go, aha.

[532] And they would beat the living shit out of me, Willie.

[533] But I had it coming.

[534] So you never got to meet Hank Williams.

[535] Did you ever meet him?

[536] No, I never did.

[537] I always wanted to.

[538] But he passed away before I had a chance.

[539] He was only 29 when he died.

[540] I know.

[541] You just mentioned your phrasing, and I was thinking about it.

[542] Your phrasing is very distinct.

[543] I don't know if I'm describing it correctly, but it feels like you're almost, it's like you're risking being behind the beat.

[544] Is that a fair way to say it?

[545] Phraising?

[546] Yeah, the way that you're holding back just a little bit, and it works beautifully, and it's distinctive to you, but it's not right in the pocket, so to say.

[547] Is that right?

[548] Well, my favorite all -time singer is Frank Sinatra, and one of his greatest talents was in phrases, and I learned a lot by just listening to Frank.

[549] And, again, who would have thought that you would list as your people that inspired you, Django Reinhardt or Frank Sinatra.

[550] But to me, it's having a liberal, I don't mean this in a political way, but a liberal open mind that's open to anything.

[551] And if it's polka, it's polka.

[552] Or if it's Spanish music, it's Spanish music.

[553] And there are a lot of people that might think, well, if you grew up in this rural area in Texas, you might only be exposed to one type of person.

[554] And you made it very clear that you had to work in the fields, picking cotton.

[555] And so you were meeting and talking to and befriending black people, Hispanic people, European immigrants.

[556] You met everybody.

[557] My grandmother used to say the definition of music was anything that's pleasing to the ear.

[558] Wow.

[559] I thought that was pretty good.

[560] Yeah, and not getting rigid about it.

[561] Not getting and in no way being as something that breaks down walls.

[562] Absolutely.

[563] It makes people feel good.

[564] I mean, you said for you, growing up and experiencing, and for your sister, all kinds of difficulties and heartbreaking situations, music was what could make you feel better.

[565] And so for you, writing that music was trying to give that to somebody else.

[566] Yeah, and some of my greatest experiences was out working in the cotton fields with African Americas and with Latinos, with everybody.

[567] and I would they would sing to me and every, you know, I'd hear the mariachi singing over here, and I'd hear the blues over here.

[568] So I learned a lot about music just by picking cotton.

[569] Did you go back there ever?

[570] I mean, I know it's a tiny place, but do you go back to this tiny little place that you were from, Abbott, Texas?

[571] Absolutely.

[572] My sister and I own the Methodist church there in Abbott and they still have services every Sunday have music and whatever and they're doing well down there so yeah we still have connections and have it i was fascinated too it's in your book that you taught sunday school for a while i did and you enjoyed it oh yeah yeah i did until they asked you they found out what you did for a living is that true they they weren't they weren't too thrilled with a sunday school teacher who played honky talks is that right well the funny part of it was oh i was playing to the people on Saturday night that I was singing to on Sunday morning.

[573] Yeah, there's this great part of the book where you're teaching Sunday school and yeah, you'd sing to them on Saturday night.

[574] Sunday, they'd be there a little hungover, but they'd be there at church.

[575] But then one of the church dignitaries came up and talked to you and said, well, you're teaching Sunday school, can I ask you what you do?

[576] And he was telling you, he didn't think that you should be teaching Sunday school because you were playing these honky talks and he said do you think God is here in church he's not in the honky tonks and you said God is everywhere.

[577] What are you talking about?

[578] God's in the honky talk as well.

[579] Yeah and God pay me some money on the honky talk.

[580] God kept putting in requests.

[581] Blue eyes crying in the rain.

[582] Come on God.

[583] You've waited four times, God.

[584] I wanted it again.

[585] God, you've been over -served, God.

[586] You know, it's funny.

[587] You talk about this a lot in the book, and that you are such, in my encounters with you, you're such a kind, nice, gentle, witty guy.

[588] And you talk very frankly in this book about how when you would drink, you'd become a different person, and that you'd be looking for a fight.

[589] Yeah.

[590] my friend, all -time good friend, Paul English, used to be my kind of, he'd go with me wherever we go because whenever I get drunk, I don't want to fight, so he'd have to be there to help get me out of it, keep me alive.

[591] And he would usually, I'd be too drunk to stand up, and he'd roll up a fat joint and hand it to me. Next thing, you know, I'm out in the bed, sound asleep.

[592] So he knew what to do.

[593] Right, right.

[594] That's a good friend to have who always has a fat joint.

[595] Absolutely.

[596] Yeah, absolutely.

[597] But, you know, that is something that changed your life is you switched over to marijuana and you said it really did help mellow you out and helped you be more contemplative and helped you get off of the cigarettes and the booze, which made a huge difference in your life.

[598] Absolutely, absolutely.

[599] The best thing that I did, really.

[600] But all my life, I've smoked something.

[601] I started out smoking cedar bark and grapevine, anything.

[602] that would burn.

[603] Do you recommend that?

[604] Do you recommend smoking cedar bark?

[605] No, it wasn't that good.

[606] Hey, Willie, we have a contest called Understatement of the Decade, and you just won.

[607] You just won Understatement of the Decade.

[608] Yes, it's not that good.

[609] I got to tell you, Conan, because I was thinking about doing that today.

[610] No, don't do.

[611] We're going to have you do a public service announcement.

[612] Kids.

[613] Willie Nelson here.

[614] Don't smoke.

[615] Well, not just smoke.

[616] Don't smoke, Cedar Bark.

[617] I know you want to.

[618] I know you're feeling like this is what you got to do.

[619] I have to say this book is an absolute.

[620] I started reading it and I couldn't put it down.

[621] And again, I think it's a tribute to, I go back to this all the time, but most of the artists I really admire had to suffer a lot.

[622] And that's unfortunately probably part of the creative process.

[623] that the hard times you went through were probably essential to you being able to write those songs, don't you think?

[624] Yeah, a friend of mine a preacher said one time when you lose life or something, he said it's not something you get over, but it's something you get through.

[625] And I thought that was pretty good way of looking at it.

[626] In your case, it's a mixture probably of, you had a lot of talent, but you also went through an incredible amount of pain and disappointment over different periods of time.

[627] Plus, you listened to every single kind of music, and when you put that all in a blender, you start waking up and I'm making it sound too easy, but you've got a song like Hello Walls, or funny how time slips away, or nightlife, or crazy.

[628] It comes to you, and it comes to you because you put in all that effort, and then when your back was turned, it was delivered to you.

[629] Does that sound feasible?

[630] Yeah, you know, crazy was an easy one to write.

[631] because I've always felt a little bit crazy.

[632] Yeah.

[633] And I don't mind that.

[634] You know, a little bit's okay.

[635] But when Patsy Kline recorded that song, she did such an incredible job that she made that song the all -time favorite jukebox song.

[636] I know.

[637] I mean, that changed everything because, well, first of all, I love this story of how you wrote that song and someone came to you and said, this would be great for Patsy Kline, and who at the time is probably the biggest country star, and he said, let's go wake her up at home, and you can play it for her.

[638] And that's, I mean, it does not seem like a good time to pitch a song to somebody.

[639] You guys woke up Patsy Klein, is that right?

[640] Well, her husband, a guy named Charlie Dick, was in Tuesday's orchid lounges there in Nashville.

[641] We were there together.

[642] It was almost midnight.

[643] And I had played crazy for him.

[644] And he said, Patsy's got to hear this.

[645] I said, no, it's too late.

[646] He said, come on.

[647] She'll want to hear it.

[648] So I didn't want to get out of the car.

[649] He went in and she come back out of the car, got me, made me come in.

[650] I was saying crazy.

[651] She recorded it the next week.

[652] Oh, my God.

[653] And it's the most popular jukebox song of all time.

[654] Ever, yeah.

[655] I mean, good for her, too.

[656] If anyone wakes me up in the middle of the night, even if it's you, Willie, if Willie Nelson wakes me up at two in the morning and says, I got a hit song for you.

[657] I say, get the fuck out of my house.

[658] Get out some under my bitch.

[659] Willie, I'm tired of you pitching me songs in the middle of the night.

[660] I need my sleep.

[661] I got shit to do, Willie.

[662] That story, it's such an iconic song, and I think that probably gave you some freedom because then you start getting what used to be called, maybe they still call it mailbox money.

[663] Absolutely.

[664] That sustained you and helped you get on your feet a little bit.

[665] Yeah, and it allowed me to, I stayed in Nashville for a year and didn't do anything but write songs and raised hogs, lost a fortune raising hogs, by the way.

[666] You lost money raising hogs?

[667] Oh, God, yes.

[668] Were the hogs embezzling?

[669] What happened?

[670] How did you lose money raising hogs?

[671] I bought them for X amount per pound and then sold them, fed them for six months and sold them later for less than what I paid for them.

[672] You know what, Willie, that is not a sound business theory.

[673] No, it's not.

[674] They teach that at Harvard Business School.

[675] They say, don't do the, it's called the Willie Nelson Hogg Raising Method.

[676] It's called, it's a classic mistake.

[677] It won't work.

[678] Well, I want to do this.

[679] I want to make sure that I get out the word on first rows of spring.

[680] It's available now.

[681] And I think it's your 70th studio album, just a stunning achievement.

[682] And I very sincerely recommend that everybody read, me and sister Bobby, true tales of the family band by Willie Nelson and his sister Bobby Nelson, because it's about pretty much everything.

[683] It's about family.

[684] It's about creativity.

[685] It's about pushing through adversity.

[686] It's about American history of the 20th century and songwriting and the music business and the good times and the times and I can't say enough good about it.

[687] It really is a stunning piece of work.

[688] Willie, I want to let you go, but I will say this, driving here today to talk to you, I said out loud in my car, I get to talk to Willie Nelson.

[689] I've had the chance to do that a few times.

[690] And any time I think about that, I almost tear up because I did something right in the previous life.

[691] It's just a blessing.

[692] It really is a blessing to talk to you.

[693] It really is.

[694] The day's not over yet.

[695] All right, so here's what I'm going to do.

[696] I'm going to smoke some of the coffee you sent me. There you are.

[697] And then that's going to keep me up for about five days.

[698] I'm going to start driving.

[699] And I should be in Texas.

[700] And it's going to take about nine.

[701] Come up.

[702] About ten hours.

[703] Come up.

[704] And I'll bring my 1946 Martin.

[705] And I won't play it.

[706] I'll just give it to you.

[707] Thank you.

[708] Yeah, really Nelson.

[709] Thank you.

[710] you, God bless and be well.

[711] You too.

[712] Have a good one.

[713] Take care.

[714] All right, we are back.

[715] You know, people are always stunned by how much my mom looks like me. I'm going to show you a picture.

[716] Yes, she's so sweet.

[717] Literally, if you look at pictures of my mom when she was a little girl, it looks like me when I was a little girl.

[718] It's pretty stunning.

[719] She looks so much like me. and I do think she is, I've said this before, but I do think my mother is probably one of the reasons I'm in comedy.

[720] She's funny in her way, in her own way, unique way, but she was like a perfect straight person, you know?

[721] My mother always wanted to be, she always had a little bit of a regal quality, and she wanted to be well -mannered, and she was taught to be well -mannered, and to sort of talk like Margaret Dumont, the woman in the Marx Brothers movies, and sort of be like, well, okay, everybody.

[722] and if company was over, she was a little formal.

[723] And that would make me want to act like Groucho.

[724] Because she'd say, all right, now please, you know, walk this way, if you will.

[725] And I'd say, well, if I could walk that way, you know, we don't, you know, but I'm serious.

[726] That would make me go even further.

[727] Right.

[728] So I would say things around my mom, and she would just say, well, that's just foolish.

[729] I don't like that at all.

[730] You stop it.

[731] And most of the time I was being silly, but then I realized about 15 years ago, I was talking to my mom, and I realized that anything I said, she thought I was lying.

[732] She just assumed I was being a wise guy, even when I was telling the truth.

[733] So we were in a restaurant, and we were looking at the menus, and then my mom said, Putaneska sauce, what is Putaneska sauce?

[734] And they said, well, it's actually used to be favored by in poorer neighborhoods in Italy.

[735] They would just take anything that they had, and they'd put it together, and it was called Putta is a woman of the night.

[736] So the translation is literally, it's the whole.

[737] horse sauce.

[738] Putneska means it's the horsesauce.

[739] And she went, stop that, that's not funny.

[740] I don't like that even fooling.

[741] And I'd say, I'm not kidding.

[742] That's when she said, tell me right now what Putinaska means.

[743] And I said, it means, and then I would try and say it in a nicer way.

[744] It's women who maybe would walk the streets at night.

[745] I don't like this.

[746] Stop it.

[747] Just stop it.

[748] I don't like this even fooling.

[749] And that was her big thing.

[750] I don't like even fooling.

[751] And then she would always call me, I guess it's an old Irish saying, although I've never met an Irishman who knows this saying, she would say, you're just being a bold stump That's what you are You're a bold stump What do you mean I'm a bold stump I'm telling you what Putanesca means It's the sauce How old are you?

[752] At this point I'm like 44 And I'm in a restaurant Trying to convince her And she's like You're just being a wise guy And sort of in this tone of like We're going to straighten you out When we get home You're going to go right to your room No we're not I drove us here I'm getting a hip replace tomorrow I'm a mature man And that's what Putin -esque means But it really does I think so I mean look it up Someone validate this unless I'm It's some say the name originated In the brothels of the Spanish quarters Hoare is Putana in Italian Hence okay Some say that that name originated This is the actual definition is that Puta Which you know was the term For women who worked in a brothel Prostitutes Thank you You could say prostitutes Okay You're really dancing around it.

[753] I'm not sure about puta.

[754] I know.

[755] Well, what I'm saying is I was right and I was trying to explain to my mother in nice terms.

[756] And she was like, I don't like this.

[757] I don't like this.

[758] And her big thing was, I don't like this even fooling.

[759] And I would say, I'm not fooling.

[760] This is your fault.

[761] Why is it my fault?

[762] You tell me things so many times that are serious.

[763] And I think the number one question I ask you all the time is, are you doing a bit?

[764] Yeah, you're the boy who joked wolf.

[765] It's true.

[766] No one who knows you really well takes you seriously anymore.

[767] Here's something I used to do to my mother, I would say.

[768] He didn't even hear that.

[769] You didn't, I know, because he knows it's true.

[770] Here's something I would say.

[771] Here's something I used to say to my mother that she really didn't like.

[772] I'd be like, you know what, Mom?

[773] I have all these brothers and sisters, and I really love him.

[774] I love Luke, and I love Kate and I love Jane, and I really love Justin.

[775] And I just, I want to love Neil, but I just don't feel anything for him.

[776] She'd be like, I don't like this.

[777] I don't like this.

[778] You love your brother, Neil.

[779] I go like, Mom, really?

[780] I wish I loved Neil.

[781] I just, there's nothing there.

[782] There's just nothing there.

[783] I try.

[784] And she was like, I don't like this.

[785] I don't like this even fooling you're a bold stump.

[786] I, like, I, and, you know, obviously I love my brother Neil, but I like this thing that, like, mom, I'm trying.

[787] I've tried for many years.

[788] He's my oldest brother.

[789] But when I try and access love, there's nothing.

[790] There's just nothing.

[791] There's no emotion, and I have to be, I don't like this.

[792] Now, maybe you should just go upstairs and think about what you said.

[793] What is wrong with you?

[794] I don't know.

[795] You are a bold.

[796] old stump.

[797] Yeah.

[798] And it seems like your mom is one of your favorite targets for this.

[799] Like, you like to get her riled up.

[800] She was so good at being the straight woman, you know.

[801] Yes.

[802] What are you talking about?

[803] Now, what's going on here?

[804] I really wanted to know the actual meaning of that sauce.

[805] It is.

[806] I know.

[807] I know.

[808] I want her to know.

[809] I want her.

[810] Because she won't admit it.

[811] That's the thing about my family is nobody's going to admit anything.

[812] No one has ever said in my family, you know what?

[813] I thought about it and you were right and I was wrong.

[814] It's not We're aware of that with you.

[815] You don't do that either.

[816] Are you wearing pajama bottoms?

[817] Yes.

[818] That deflection.

[819] That's what that is, Matt.

[820] Well, I'm sorry.

[821] You look like a 1920s prisoner.

[822] When I put on shoes and dressed up for Michelle Obama, and I thought it was appropriate to dress down for Willie Nelson.

[823] I think you did the right thing.

[824] That makes sense.

[825] But, yeah, that's my mom is never going to go, you know, I looked it up, and yes, Putin -esque sauce, many believe the name does derive from the brothels in the Spanish quarter.

[826] going to say that.

[827] She's just going to stick with I don't like it and you're being a bold stump.

[828] That's what she's going to stick with.

[829] I like bold stump.

[830] I never once.

[831] I went over.

[832] She was going to have, we were having a big party at our house and this is still when I'm an adult but I come by to visit my parents and a bunch of people are coming over in a few hours.

[833] I think one guest showed up early and was like wearing jeans or something.

[834] My mom who hasn't even dressed yet saw them in the yard and was like, they're wearing jeans.

[835] I can't believe they're wearing jeans.

[836] And my mother turned to me and she's wearing a robe and the robe is kind of stiff like it's overstarched so it looks like she's her hair is a mess she's wearing a robe and she's got this her robe tied and it looks like a propeller on a 1915 airplane and it's giant and her hair is all over the place and she said doesn't that person know what kind of family we are and doesn't he know what we stand for And then we O 'Brien's are made of finer stuff.

[837] And I said, I looked at her and I said, Mom, you look like boxcar Willie.

[838] It's what, I don't like that.

[839] I don't like that even fooling.

[840] And I said, well, before you go criticize his jeans, you should go upstairs and take the propeller off.

[841] How early did that guy come?

[842] I don't know.

[843] He wasn't there that.

[844] Come on.

[845] I'm just telling you.

[846] These are stories from my past.

[847] I like to tell a yard every now and then.

[848] about the old days, the old days in Brooklyn, Massachusetts.

[849] It really does give good insight into the person that you are and you've become.

[850] I think I have my good qualities.

[851] What are they?

[852] Not sure.

[853] I would, maybe another podcast.

[854] Hey, if you want to hear my good qualities, we're going to release them.

[855] Episode 28 this year.

[856] We am going to release my good qualities.

[857] Oh, you can't even come up with it.

[858] Well, no, it's one of these ways to get people to...

[859] This is not me not being able to come up of my good qualities.

[860] This is me using it as a promotional tool.

[861] Oh, okay.

[862] For that one podcast.

[863] Yeah, tune in, episode 28, Conan's good qualities.

[864] It'll be 20 seconds low.

[865] Hey, if we can get to 20 seconds, that'll be fed. I'm going to speak very slowly.

[866] I always get rid of loose change.

[867] That's one of them?

[868] That's it.

[869] Come on.

[870] I have to make that last 20 seconds.

[871] I always get rid.

[872] Red of Belous Change.

[873] Conan O 'Brien needs a friend, with Sonam O 'Sessian and Conan O 'Brien as himself.

[874] Produced by me, Matt Goreley, executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Solitarroff, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf.

[875] Theme song by The White Stripes.

[876] Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.

[877] Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.

[878] The show is engineered by Will Beckton.

[879] You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review featured on a future episode.

[880] Got a question for Conan?

[881] Call the Team Coco hotline at 323 -451 -2821 and leave a message.

[882] It too could be featured on a future episode.

[883] And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

[884] This has been a Team Coco production.

[885] Association with Earwolf.