#280 - Philip Coppens

[0] The Joe Rogan experience.

[1] Train by day, Joe Rogan, podcast by night, all day.

[2] Powerful Philip Copens.

[3] How are you, sir?

[4] I'm doing good.

[5] That's a long dragged out ending.

[6] Thanks for coming, man, and you're here about your book.

[7] Your book is The Lost Civilization Enigma.

[8] And this, I got into the subject through Graham Hancock, who I'm sure you're familiar with his work, the fingerprints of the gods.

[9] before that I had no idea that there were so many mysteries in terms of like how ancient structures were constructed you know who the people were that actually designed them and built them and it's an amazing part of the history of the human race that is really doesn't get enough attention in my opinion and I don't understand why well I think we've somehow kind of like you know we have this 4 ,000 BC wall in there yeah and anything before that People just don't seem to be interested in, and it doesn't get into textbooks, it doesn't get into official kind of anything, and anything before that is just treated as if it's sporadic.

[10] We've been around for 35 ,000 years, and we're led to believe that for 30 ,000 years of that existence.

[11] We did nothing.

[12] We said on our bum.

[13] Is it because of the fact that the information wasn't available when the people who are professors right now were teaching, and they were teaching for 20 and 30 years, some of them, and they don't want to.

[14] like rewrite what they have already taught.

[15] Like there's an ego thing to it.

[16] They've taught you that, you know, this was built in 2000 BC, and that's where it ends.

[17] Absolutely.

[18] I mean, there's one example in the book, and the opening chapter is called the New Inquisition.

[19] And it's about several cases, but one of them is from the 1920s.

[20] And basically, in the 1920s, the discovery was made in France, Loselle.

[21] And if this was true, early indications were that writing was thousands of years older than everybody had been writing about.

[22] All of these professors were going to be proven wrong.

[23] And they just couldn't let that happen.

[24] So what they did was he had a 16 -year -old farmer boy who just found a hole in his field who said like, hey, look what I have found.

[25] And they threw him in jail.

[26] And they pretended that he was thrown in jail for fraud.

[27] And ever after, science could say, like, well, he was arrested on fraud, wasn't he?

[28] We don't have to look at this guy because he was arrested on fraud.

[29] And he was completely vindicated.

[30] There was no evidence whatsoever that he had made fraudulent claims about the artifacts which he'd found, but ever since the 1920s, according to the Isle's Free Walls of academics, this is a complete thing which they don't have to look into anymore because they have labeled it a fraud.

[31] Wow.

[32] So you think there was a conspiracy to label it a fraud and him a fraud just so that they didn't have to address it?

[33] Yes.

[34] How is that possible?

[35] Isn't it weird that academics are supposed to be the leading lights of thought.

[36] They're supposed to be the people that are at the forefront of knowledge.

[37] But for the most part they are.

[38] For the most part they are.

[39] But there are exceptions and there are issues.

[40] The Egyptologists, that guy who was arguing with Robert Schock and Graham Hancock or in John Anthony West in that famous video where they're dealing with this obvious water erosion on these stones and all these geologists are saying like you've got a problem here because this was cut at like 9 ,000 plus BC.

[41] There's no other way around it.

[42] If you look at climate change, you look at that it had to be thousands of years of rainfall to create these erosions.

[43] And the way he reacted was so egotistical and non -scientific.

[44] It was really infuriating.

[45] He was laughing.

[46] Like, what evidence of this civilization from 10 ,000 years ago do you have?

[47] And it was so infuriating to see a guy who's supposed to be the man out there at the forefront.

[48] front of knowledge when it comes to this particular subject.

[49] He's a guy who's a professor at a university, a highly respected one, and here he is, he's carrying the flag for knowledge in this particular subject, and he is, if he could see how gross it looked to watch that reaction, like, why don't you tell me what the fuck you think would be around from 10 ,500 years ago, dude?

[50] Because I don't think it's going to be much.

[51] I really don't think, if we barely can find shit from 2 ,000 years ago.

[52] We barely find shit from 2000 BC barely we find like a little pottery oh we found some place where everybody got killed by mud quick get over here let's clean this shit with a with a paintbrush we but you want to go more time back from that than it is from us to the construction of the pyramid than it is from the established 2 ,500 BC which is insanity that's insane amount of time you're talking about like 8 ,000 years before that you're supposed to know or have any evidence whatsoever other than than giant stones, what the fuck do you think would be left, right?

[53] Yeah, I mean, the great Dr. Zai, who was, and just to kind of come back on the conspiracy angle there, he in the 1980s, had actually found evidence that the pyramid, the great pyramid of Giza, carbon dating results were in, uncontested, 800 years older.

[54] Now, that might not see much.

[55] If 2 ,400 would make it 3 ,200 BC, but it's 800 years.

[56] It's basically...

[57] It's fucking long time, man. And they don't want to do it.

[58] So what do they do?

[59] For the last 30 years, they haven't published these findings because for them to play the game, it has to be published in a peer -reviewed scientific journal.

[60] And so by not publishing this, they can pretend that these carbon -dating results don't exist, and they can pretend that everything is fine, that the Great Pyramid is built in 2 ,400 BC.

[61] They set the rules, they play the game, and then they shout at everybody else, as you're pointing out when you're Robert Schock and everybody else comes to this thing and say, you're idiots.

[62] Well, it's clear that there's ego involved, which is very, very disturbing when it comes to knowledge, when it comes to something that is obviously a work in progress.

[63] The uncovering of ancient civilizations is clearly a work in progress.

[64] So to be arrogant about what the results are just based on the fact that you've taught these to students for so many years, and you don't want to admit that you were wrong when you're talking about the time, the construction, the sphinx, whatever it is that it is that starts getting controversial, there's a weird thing where you see their ego flare up and it's so gross and it's so transparent.

[65] It's really weird to watch them argue like little girls.

[66] Like the way they talk about it, it's so egomaniacal.

[67] It's like, what do you talk?

[68] You know exactly what the fuck happened?

[69] No, you don't.

[70] No, you don't.

[71] And you need to take this to make consideration.

[72] You've got a real issue because if this guy's right, then you're way off.

[73] If this guy's right and the Sphinx enclosure was cut 9 ,000 plus BC, then you've got a real problem on your hands.

[74] Because you've established this whole timeline.

[75] It doesn't work anymore.

[76] There was obviously some really, so then we have to figure how, what the fuck happened that we had this incredible sophistication at 10 ,000 BC?

[77] And then there's obviously been some declines here and there.

[78] There's a really obvious system.

[79] If you, if you really pay attention like Gobeckley Tepe or all of these really 14 ,000 plus BC things it's like this isn't like a linear graph it doesn't like go straight up there's like probably some fairly sophisticated cultures wiped out fairly sophisticated wiped out and other places just like today you can go to africa today and there's a lot of people that if you you didn't if western civilization didn't go in there and and give them things they wouldn't have radios they wouldn't be wearing underwear they would be living exactly the same way they lived thousands and thousands of years ago.

[80] At the same time, on other parts of the world, people are dropping bombs on people.

[81] People are doing nuclear tests.

[82] People are, you know, they're doing the large Hadron Collider.

[83] That's all taking place at the exact same time.

[84] I suspect that's always been like that.

[85] I suspect that there's been some super duper sophisticated cultures where for whatever reason, these people were ever able to figure out how to use agriculture earlier, figure out how to use societies, figure out how to be calm enough to start breaking things down and thinking it through, and trying to figure out how to improve things.

[86] And then it's this exponential process in these groups, and some of them get better out of the others.

[87] And it seems to be like, it's like, who wasn't attacked by hordes of barbarians, you know?

[88] Those dudes seem to figure out how to, you know, get it like, all you need is, like, a couple of decades to get ahead.

[89] If you look at what we've accomplished in 100 years, you know, it's really a staggering thing.

[90] That's the most staggering thing about whether it's Balback, the Stones in Lebanon or Egypt or anything.

[91] The most staggering thing is how far we've come in 100 years.

[92] And to think that this shit was all going on thousands and thousands and thousands of years ago.

[93] Those numbers are just bullshit to us.

[94] You start telling someone 7 ,000 years ago, it's like, blah, blah, blah.

[95] I hear noise coming out of your mouth.

[96] I really don't, I can't see it.

[97] I don't know what it means.

[98] But I think it's the problem because the way history is thought, and it is like, you know, for 30 ,000 years we sat on our butt, then we stood up and we scrambled around for some food, and then all of a sudden in 4 ,000 BC, somebody finds a light switch, and all of a sudden it's civilization.

[99] That's the standard view, and it doesn't work like that.

[100] And then when you confront them with things like Obeckley -Tepi or Cattle -Ewik or anything like that, they'll say, well, you know, they were very close.

[101] they're like a few thousand people in a city somewhere who were doing this but it was all isolated and it just doesn't work great empires exist, great empires fall our ancestors were saying about this as well they're basically saying about Atlantis you know this civilization existed then it disappeared and our we kind of go no no no no no no because we were sitting in the butt sitting phase of civilization 10 ,000 years ago nobody was building anything nobody was doing anything and it is just ugh because you can't argue with them they know for sure about how this was we were sitting on our butts for thousands of years then we scrambled around a bit and then all of a sudden in 4 ,000 BC we finally see the light and here we are and it is very much like an evolution of mankind taken to the absolute extreme it's a weird sort of cognitive denial it's very strange it's very strange that it's like it's like it's like laborings labelling something a conspiracy theory.

[102] Like, oh, are you a conspiracy theorist?

[103] Like, automatically.

[104] Or even have the new one.

[105] It's truther.

[106] That's hilarious.

[107] The 911 people like 9 -1 -1 -truth.

[108] They became truthers.

[109] Like, somehow or another, it's an insult to be a truther.

[110] That shit's ridiculous.

[111] Well, I mean, I was doing something for my blog, which is going to be on somewhere in the next few days.

[112] And it's about the Kennedy assassination.

[113] And this single bullet theory.

[114] And the single bit of theory was invented by Arlen Specter who was a very junior lawyer at that time and he basically saw the Zapruder film which basically is a guy shooting film of Kennedy and they thought that the man like a carcano which was what was using shot rifle, you could fire it at intervals of 2 .3 seconds.

[115] And they see on this film how Kennedy reacts to a gunshot and Connolly reacts to a gunshot as well and the interval is less than 2 .3.

[116] So all of a sudden they have this issue of like, oh, there are two riflemen there, or we need to try and explain it away.

[117] So comes inspector, junior lawyer, who basically gets to solve this problem, and he comes up with a single bullet theory, which basically says a shot goes into the back of Kennedy, somehow travels up, goes down, jumps up again to go into Connolly's back, kind of like keeps traveling up a bit, goes down again into his wrist, and then up again.

[118] And he calls it, you know, the magic bullet theory.

[119] And when he goes public with this, he basically He says, like, I don't expect anybody to leave this shit.

[120] This is going to be contested in a year, five years, a hundred years from now.

[121] Nobody should believe this.

[122] And guess what?

[123] Academic history has taken this on wholesale.

[124] Wholesale.

[125] And everybody who says, but the magic bullet theory is just crap, they're labeled conspiracy nuts.

[126] Yeah, it's not just crap.

[127] It's like, you're almost, it's almost unexcusable to believe it.

[128] It was invented because of the guy and the underpass who got hit with the ricochet.

[129] They had to attribute, that was another reason for it, they had attribute a bullet to this one guy hitting a curb and it ricocheted him and he had to go to the hospital.

[130] So they knew that one of the bullets missed and one of the bullets hit this curb.

[131] And the bullet they found was in the gurney of Governor Connolly when they brought him to the hospital.

[132] So the idea is that this fucking bullets came out of this dude's body in like perfect form.

[133] just laying around there no one ever noticed it like he got shot and it was like in his pocket or something it went through his body and landed in his pocket and then fell out conveniently right where they were looking around see if there's any evidence oh look we found the bullet that did all the damage it looks to me when i watch this a pruder film i've never heard anybody say this but there's a scene there's part of it where it does look like i mean his head definitely goes back into the left, but the spray looks like it's going forward.

[134] I wonder if he was hit more than once by, you know, different snipers at the same time.

[135] I mean, I wonder how many actual shots went into his body.

[136] Because they know that there was the one that went through the front that they tried to disguise as a tracheotomy.

[137] They know there was definitely an entry wound in the neck, and that's when he grabs his neck.

[138] Just that alone, the fact that that was deceptively labeled as a tracheotomy hole, why would you do that.

[139] Why would you, the only reason, it's because you don't want to show an entry wound in the front of his neck.

[140] An entry wound looks, entry wound.

[141] Entry wound looks so much different than an exit wound.

[142] Everybody knows that.

[143] So you had to, they had to come up with something why these, a fucking round hole in the middle of this guy's neck.

[144] So they decided to make it a trach scar, which is just deception.

[145] Yeah.

[146] Just that alone.

[147] But, you know, we are led to believe that it's all official history.

[148] It kind of like is rubber stamped.

[149] And so much is rubber stamp which is absolute BS on so many things and you know that is 50 years ago yeah and when we're coming back to trying to find out what really happened 8 ,000 years ago you know when we can't even do it 50 years ago the rubber stamp those motherfuckers it's those rubber stamp people man it really is that that really is what it is in the notion that certain things make you a ridiculous person if you discuss them whether it's a Sasquatch or whether it's UFOs or whether whether it's anything.

[150] The idea that human beings even exist and exist in this form with cell phones and fucking space travel and airplanes and that is so crazy.

[151] Just the reality of people is so crazy.

[152] I don't know why anybody would argue any ridiculous proposition about aliens or the possibility of life that we haven't discovered on other planet.

[153] It's like, just think about how fucking weird we are.

[154] You know, we're, the fact that we even exist is so mind -blowing and exist in this form.

[155] For sure, it could be, there could be UFOs around us all the time that we can't see because they know how to hide.

[156] There could be easily some way or you just are just completely invisible.

[157] It doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility that they could deceive us, that they could figure out a way to be a tree, you know, you know?

[158] why I mean and who knows if like the idea of like cloaking devices like all the shit that we're coming up with like where we we project an image of who knows what the fuck is up there that we can't see maybe they're Asians Brian you need to just jump in front of a train today well one of the questions I get asked Brian is whether cats are aliens what are aliens in disguise aliens cats no what if what if Chinese people are more alien than human and when the Nibiru people came, when the Anunnaki came, they just added a little more alien, a little more chimp to, like, my people, the Italians, so I give him a little more chimp.

[159] I believe that.

[160] More than a tree.

[161] You'd believe that more than them being a tree?

[162] Yeah.

[163] Well, what about if they were the wind?

[164] Well, I mean, Paul Davis is a guy who's an astrobiologist from University of Phoenix, and he's basically writing a paper on non -material technology, which he basically kind of goes like, I'm going to talk about this, but I have no idea what I'm talking about because it's so out there.

[165] But he's basically saying that alien beings, if they were to come here or if they came here, their technology might actually not be physically real, that it might be something kind of like, you know, some kind of energy cloud in front of them, which they can direct with thought and can do stuff with that.

[166] And you kind of think like, well, we're almost there because a few days ago there was some headline whereby, I think in Japan, Asians again, where they somehow have been able to, map if somebody's thinking about, I think it was a tomato or something like that, the computer could pick up the pattern that this guy was thinking about tomatoes.

[167] So we are rapidly moving in directions of really being able to pick up what we're thinking and computer technology being able to identify what we're thinking.

[168] Yeah, and who knows whether they're going to be able to enable consciousness to exist inside of computers or consciousness to exist inside of a signal.

[169] if they can get consciousness to exist inside of a computer think about how much energy and how much information is distributed just through wireless internet just flying around all around you constantly as fucking videos and ones and zeros and who knows if one day they'll be able to do that with consciousness just broadcast consciousness like a Wi -Fi signal so that you you essentially are everywhere all the time if you choose to be so the aliens are here without even physically being here Yeah, well, you said that aliens were wind and the Wi -Fi's in the air, so the internet is aliens.

[170] Dude, what if the hurricane's an alien?

[171] What?

[172] I just smote an alien.

[173] Did you do something?

[174] No. It's a child.

[175] I apologize.

[176] Mr. Copens.

[177] He's a fucking serious author here, dude.

[178] You're just messing this whole thing up.

[179] When you, you know, when you tell people that you're on that show, agent aliens, isn't that like automatically one of those things where they go, oh, okay, you believe in aliens, like, oh, you believe in UFOs?

[180] You know, it's amazing.

[181] In America, there has been a complete change.

[182] The answer is no longer no. Really?

[183] People kind of go, like, wow, interesting.

[184] This is being explored.

[185] This is being discussed.

[186] You know, it's got phenomenal ratings, and it's got an attraction from 5 to 95.

[187] And all of a sudden, and I think this is largely due to the format of the show as well, really people are into this.

[188] People are beginning to question things.

[189] I get feedback from university professors and specifically high school teachers.

[190] And the high school teachers are saying, you know, we used to say something like very dogmatically, something like, let's say water is liquid.

[191] They can still get away with that.

[192] But some of the other claims they're making, students are now challenging.

[193] They're saying, well, where did you get that from?

[194] And before, there was this acceptance of, oh, yeah, the teacher says so.

[195] So we have to accept whatever this knowledgeable person says, and we will just.

[196] just write it down.

[197] And all of a sudden high school teachers, even university students are basically saying, no, we're not going to do that.

[198] We're going to ask where this came from.

[199] Why do you come to that stance?

[200] And I think that's interesting.

[201] And it's definitely something which is happening in America because the series is also in different countries.

[202] I kind of like don't follow it in all countries.

[203] Definitely in Europe, it's definitely still like, oh, you believe in aliens?

[204] Well, here's the thing that's happening in this country especially.

[205] And it's a thing that you can call intellectual wealth and financial wealth might still be locked down by the elite but intellectual wealth is no longer intellectual wealth is look you don't really have to have any sort of formal education and you could educate yourself just by reading the internet you literally any subject any you could find forums where virtually any topic that you wish to engage in and what to figure things out about could be discussed, you can go to, you could download virtually every book that's ever been written about it, and it's, it's not like it used to be.

[206] So it's not like when they go into a college, the professor is intellectually, incredibly wealthy, and the children are intellectually poor.

[207] No, the children have fucking smartphones, and they could Google anything, like, no, that's not why.

[208] It was 1726, and they found it this way, and that professor looks like an idiot now because he's got some old outdated information yeah it's uh it's it's not easy to just run a bunch of kids tell them lies well you know what do you do with kids these fucking kids these days and they're aliens um but the idea of aliens has always been sexy it's always been you know it's daunting like the idea like wow what could you imagine if it is real what would it be like that's why there's a thousand fucking movies about i was gonna say hollywood down the street yeah just look, you know, like, it's, it's one of those things where I don't know what would happen if it was proven to be real, but I don't think it would be good.

[209] If they could prove that there are aliens and aliens exist, I think people are too stupid.

[210] I think they would just start jumping off buildings.

[211] I don't think they'd be able to handle it.

[212] Yeah, there's various scenarios there, definitely.

[213] I mean, you know, the War of the World's thing from the 1930s with Orson Wells is kind of like the classic thing of the panicky situation then there are those who say that was exaggerated that it was really isolated that it were the headlines of the newspapers who invented this kind of thing I don't know I mean I Depends how sexy the alien is I think it was an attractive alien we might not panic and jump off we might try right like what if they arrive and they're all hot as fuck like Natasha Hendricks and species remember that maybe this is a conspiracy maybe everything about the UFO cover -up has happened because they were ugly and they were not photogenic.

[214] It's too insect -like.

[215] And the government is just waiting for beautiful aliens to come and then there will be disclosure.

[216] Meanwhile, there's going to be a new movie about that very same subject.

[217] Now that they've heard this, someone will write a movie about it.

[218] It'd be awesome.

[219] Hot aliens from space.

[220] No. Damn it, we forgot.

[221] We forgot to copyright that.

[222] Yeah, I think for whatever reason, And I think people are barely able to handle this reality, you know, for whatever reason, whether it's they're not living the life they want to live, they're not around too many people that think a lot, they don't have much education, they don't have a strong mind, they have a lot of phobias, they have, you know, addictions to substances, whatever the fuck it is.

[223] There's people that are, a lot of people that are barely hanging on to this life as is.

[224] It's an awful lot of framework.

[225] People love to have a framework.

[226] And, you know, going back to children, children need a framework.

[227] They need structure in their life.

[228] And adults, so many adults need to do that as well.

[229] And once that framework is in place, and I think this is tying it back to like the academic professors, it's really hard to break out of that.

[230] And it's like, you know, whether it is things like hallucinic substances, whether it is things like near death experiences, life after death, all of these things, aliens, law civilizations, they all somehow are pushing this cardboard thing of the framework saying, we need to get through because there's something outside of this framework and basically people saying yeah the ancient aliens one is one where I've had the conversation with people where I sort of described the Zechariah Sitchin thing is a Sitchin scenario what could have happened and they look at you like they're trying to find a way to get away they look at you like what the fuck kind of stupid conversation am I locked in with this idiot if you've never read any of Zechariah Sitchin stuff I'll just summarize it very quickly.

[231] And it's Sitchin believes that we were engineered by these alien beings and that it's all in the ancient Sumerian text.

[232] His translations of it are all that these people came down and did genetic experiments on human beings and created us to mine for gold, which is really a trip.

[233] It's really a mind fuck when you start thinking about how gold has always been valuable.

[234] And you're like, why?

[235] You can't even make a sword out of it.

[236] Like, why did people back then?

[237] Why was anybody willing to take like a bag of gold for your donkey?

[238] Like, that doesn't make any sense.

[239] Like, why, why did it have so much value?

[240] The Zacharias Hitchin scenario is that they, these aliens had ruined their environment and they needed gold dusts to suspend their atmosphere to protect them from the radiation.

[241] Well, what's really fucked up is scientists didn't figure that, like when they were started to discuss possible climate change, erosion in the ozone layer, what would they do to protect the united if we lost all of our uh our ozone or atmosphere and the number one solution was to suspend reflective particles in the atmosphere like and so sitchin had actually translated this in the 70s this is like far before scientists had even proposed that so it's really kind of interesting like that's one little piece of that sitchin thing that makes you go whoa like who the how did he figure that out was that i don't know i'm not smart enough to know about the environment and the climate change and how much they knew about the ozone layer back in the 1970s.

[242] Well, he was a very controversial man. He was very kind of like adamant and said in his ways.

[243] He wasn't a warm character, but he definitely was an interesting character.

[244] And towards the end of his life together with inner traditions, his publisher, he began to kind of like push for the DNA analysis.

[245] He wanted to do some DNA testing.

[246] And Unfortunately, he died before any of that could have happened.

[247] But it would have been interesting to see where he was going to take it because he really was pushing his reputation and his legacy on the line there.

[248] And again, it didn't happen because he died.

[249] And the DNA evidence he was trying to find was that we were genetically manipulated and created.

[250] The idea is that that's why we're so different from every other monkey that's here.

[251] I mean, it's so clear that we're different.

[252] We're so much different than all the rest of them.

[253] And people are like, well, we are apes.

[254] We're just, we're from a different branch.

[255] How the fuck that this one branch just take off?

[256] This one branch has cars and this one, this one brand.

[257] Everybody else is the same.

[258] They're all just throwing their own shit.

[259] Even the chimps that are the baddest, yeah.

[260] They're in this, the chimps are the baddest, smartest motherfuckers, the closest to us.

[261] But look at them.

[262] Like, oh, they're using a tool.

[263] They're sticking a stick to fucking get ants.

[264] That's as close to a tool as they get.

[265] Like, whoa.

[266] you know call me when they figure out a bow and arrow okay it's the difference between them and us is so gigantic and i've never heard that adequately explained never never heard it the fossil record is baffling to a lot of biologists when it comes to the doubling the human brain size i've read all these different theories of why the human brain size doubled over a period of two million years and they're all fucking like it's all like who knows man who knows if we we really found out conclusively that there was some sort of genetic manipulation by some manipulation by some sort of an outside force.

[267] That might be too much for people to handle.

[268] Yeah, I mean, you know, that's, again, it's the framework.

[269] It's like if we somehow were to be able to change time.

[270] And I did an interview for a DVD, which is going to come out, I think, in a few months from now.

[271] And it's about the Marcel family, the ones who are involved with Roswell.

[272] And two generations of them, specifically the grandson, Jesse Marcel III, grew up with the absolute conviction that E .T. existed.

[273] The family is absolutely convinced that what grandfather found was extraterrestrial.

[274] The dad, at the age of 10, saw some of these artifacts, and they raised his son and the grandchild, I .E. III, in this absolute conviction that E .T. existed.

[275] And his mindset is completely different from the rest of us.

[276] It's like, you know, Like, at the age of five, he's not questioning whether what he sees on television about Battlestar, Galactica, could be possibly real or anything of the science fiction thing.

[277] He just grew up with his complete acceptance that it is there.

[278] Just like shamanic cultures believe absolutely that there are other entities out there, that there is a larger framework out there.

[279] You know, so many people.

[280] But the majority of us, the majority of the normal people get raised in religion, they kind of like, you grow up with that.

[281] and then they continue to endorse it or they break away from it and sometimes completely throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[282] And that is very interesting kind of like how 2 billion people right now are in this Catholic tradition all by themselves already of like having this framework which is created for the last 2 ,000 years and everything where you look around you in this Western world is basically the cardboard box of the last 2000 years.

[283] Yeah, the Catholic one is what, that's where I started out when I was a little kid.

[284] I was a Catholic.

[285] I can't believe there's so many people that are still in that.

[286] That one's a tricky one.

[287] That one's, I mean, like how much abuse do you have to take?

[288] How many kids have to get molested by priests?

[289] And how many times they have to cover that up?

[290] How many people have to live these horrible, guilt -laden lives because of that wacky -ass fucking religion?

[291] But you see, this is what the Catholic religion doesn't give any shit about it, because this is what they think about.

[292] You are baptized, that's all they care about.

[293] For the rest of your life, whether you live good, whether you murder people, they don't care.

[294] Because once you're baptized, you are going to die, you do the rituals and all of that stuff, and then they believe in a physical resurrection of the death at the time when Jesus comes back.

[295] Living right, or whether you are a pedophile or a mass murderer, they don't care.

[296] It's all about being baptized, and that's all good, and the rest is all pretty much make -believe and entertainment for the masses.

[297] Well, I don't think that's the case.

[298] I think they care if you're a pedophile or a murderer.

[299] I mean, people don't want that in their community.

[300] But I know what you're saying, that if you follow the dogma, if you follow the actual word of the religion, the most important part is that they're baptized so that they can possibly come back, or go to heaven, and that they, you know, that they, what do they have to say?

[301] They love Jesus right before they do.

[302] die.

[303] They have to say that they accept Jesus into their heart.

[304] Do they have to say it?

[305] Nope.

[306] Yeah.

[307] You have to say it?

[308] I have to say that's the one.

[309] Do you always have that in the back of your head like just in case?

[310] Like I'm like, all right, what is it again?

[311] Okay, I got to do that.

[312] No, but this, uh, this chick I used to date her roommate used to say shit like that.

[313] Look, it's just in case, just in case.

[314] Except you to my heart.

[315] Car crash.

[316] Just in case it's like it's always, it's always good to better be safe than sorry.

[317] What the fuck are you talking about?

[318] Put on those purple nikes.

[319] yeah it's um it's it's it's just ridiculous how big it is and that those stories are far more ridiculous than the zachary's hitching tale of humanity the zech and tale of humanity is like hmm that makes you i mean it's like we know what we can do we got a rover on mars right now we're collecting soil we're taking full we know we can do that and we know that we didn't used to be able to do that a hundred years ago so why wouldn't we think that someone could have been here a few thousand years ago this is a young ass planet planet's only been around like four billion years or something like that right 4 .6 yeah if you look at the earth in comparison of the rest of the universe there's planets that are billions of years older than us out there somewhere yeah and you know again as you were saying earlier it's like give a hundred years in the future and if they came here 8 ,000 years ago how would you tell yeah And statistically, there are, like, you know, people have been doing the statistical analyses, and there would have been two or three of these incidents happening.

[320] Now, first of all, you know, if a spaceship does crash in, let's say, 15 ,000 BC, somewhere in America, good luck finding evidence of that.

[321] Right.

[322] You know, there's hardly anybody living here at that moment in time.

[323] Wouldn't spaceships last longer, though, than, like, iPhones?

[324] You know, like, your iPhone wouldn't be around for 10 ,000 years.

[325] But a fucking spaceship, that shit is pretty durable, I bet.

[326] be around for a while.

[327] You would hope.

[328] You would hope.

[329] You're going to travel through, you know, galaxies with one of those fucking things.

[330] Our planet's so young it hasn't even started, it's period.

[331] Brian, these are not good.

[332] These are not good lines you're interrupting this important conversation with.

[333] I apologize.

[334] See, the problem with those, Brian, is they're train wrecks, and they ruin the flow of the conversation.

[335] And now I don't even remember what we were saying.

[336] The planet is...

[337] Shut up.

[338] Shut up, Brian.

[339] It is an issue with people when they talk about the origins of humanity, when they talk about the origins of civilizations and how far we've come over this short period of time.

[340] It is an issue with people where there's no clear beginning.

[341] It's like, it gets foggy, Mesopotamia, something.

[342] You know, it gets real foggy.

[343] It gets real foggy about five, six thousand years ago.

[344] and those guys were all talking about people that lived before then they all had stories of ancient civilizations that were more advanced and greater they all have these catastrophe stories and they also all have like these stories about being visited yeah and i mean you know the ancient egyptians are probably the best example of this they have stories which basically say that they go back 25 ,000 years ago to a time when the gods whatever they are ruled and were present amongst us then they disappeared, then there were some kind of demi -gods, and then dynastic rule of Egypt.

[345] And that's kind of like very much something which you find everywhere.

[346] Where do you go into Arizona?

[347] You hear the same story of the Hopes, this period when the gods were amongst us that they still had can be contacted.

[348] And in the case of the ancient Egyptians, you have this other very interesting scenario that they speak about Atlantis.

[349] And these wonderful Greek, who have for so many generations dominated our education, as the cradle of civilization.

[350] Well, they themselves say they weren't the cradle of civilization.

[351] Pythagoras says he studied in ancient Egypt.

[352] All of them went to ancient Egypt to study these things, yet we keep calling them Patagoras this and Euclid this and all of that stuff.

[353] But they all say it came from Egypt.

[354] So all of this knowledge came from Egypt.

[355] And what happens is that in the 4th century, when Plato starts writing about Atlantis, he says, you know, this is history.

[356] He writes about it in a history book.

[357] he has his critics because nobody in Greece is believing that somehow Athens is thousands of years older than they believe.

[358] They are talking about lost civilization somewhere in what seems to be the Atlantic Ocean and that there's this continent behind it.

[359] What kind of nonsense is this?

[360] So as soon as he's written it, basically if you guys jump on a boat, go to Egypt, hope that they can get confronted with evidence which shows that Solan and Plato are absolute morons who've invented this.

[361] And they arrive in a temple complex and the Egyptian priest kind of like points and says, yep, that's the column over there, which has this story.

[362] And they jump back in the boat, arrive in Athens and basically say, oh yeah, sorry, you know, yeah, Plato was right.

[363] The ancient Egyptians have this information about this lost civilization.

[364] Now, that doesn't mean necessarily that ancient Atlantis is real, but definitely that the ancient Egyptians believed that it was real.

[365] And all of that is kind of like, you know, factual.

[366] All of this is identified as as being real.

[367] We know that this guy jumped on a boat and that this column was there up until the 4th century BC.

[368] And what we have right now, again, this cardboard books which we are trying to maintain, we have the likes of Ken Fetter who, you know, I'm all about the fact that there should be debate, but it also has to be informed.

[369] And this guy basically says, well, you know, Plato invented this.

[370] This is an idealized state.

[371] And when you ask him, but it's about history, he says it's history.

[372] Well, that was a literary device.

[373] invented a literary device.

[374] He was very upset with the way Athens was being run, and so he pretends that it is history.

[375] And he really wants to expose Athens for it.

[376] It's like, oh, shut up.

[377] You know, again, right now there is no evidence that Atlantis was real, but we should get to a point to say that there is some validity that it might be real.

[378] And guess what?

[379] 10 ,000 years ago, we know that water levels were lower.

[380] We know that the water levels were lower.

[381] We know that there was ice above things like Great Britain, two miles of ice sitting there, that begins to meld at the end of the last ice age, the sea levels begin to rise.

[382] What's the story of Atlantis, of a low -level plane somewhere, near water, which all of a sudden is submerged by water, which comes out of nowhere, apparently, and submerges this civilization.

[383] It's what we have found.

[384] Haven't they discovered what they believe is the concentric circles that made up of Atlantis in Spain?

[385] Well, they have found so many things.

[386] The answer is that our ancestors built in concentric circles everywhere.

[387] In the book Lost Civilization Lingma there, there's actually the work of a Belgian historian Marcel Mastak who finds that these circles also existed around Stonehenge, Avebury, but also in France.

[388] Why did they do that?

[389] Why did they build like that?

[390] We don't necessarily know the kind of like the indications are that our ancestors were very much aware of water technology.

[391] realized that they wanted to do certain things with water, that they could purify it somehow, that they could get more quality out of this, that, you know, like, it's somehow that they understood the qualities of water.

[392] And we're only beginning to touch that.

[393] There's some research So those concentric circles may have been filters?

[394] Potentially.

[395] I mean, over the last 10 to 20 years, people have beginning to look at this, most of it in Russia.

[396] It is slowly coming back to us and kind of like the results of what you're doing but yeah you know like a motto with his water and memory and all of that stuff it's also probably a good way to have buildings set up and if you had it in these concentric circles and the water was inside of each circle everyone would have access to water yes and there's also something about you know like the proximity to water how this was somehow important and beneficial to health that water healed you know until a few years ago everybody went to these spas across the world to to partake in the world to partake in the waters which were meant to cure everything and it definitely made our ancestors feel better and that seems to be a tradition which existed for thousands of years to take this pass somehow that this water was important but also of course they had to make sure that water was pure that the water was clean that it didn't contain you know things which would rather kill you rather than heal you well water has always been something that makes people feel good too right i mean it's got to be helpful for you playing in the ocean and just oh my wife my wife is a big supporter of saying if you have a problem take a shower and there are people who actually say that the physical fact of what are getting on your head makes your brain think better and she's an absolute like she's an example of that she was sometimes going to the shower and come back and say this problem i'm kind of like have the solution i think i found this she's not alone it definitely feels good that's one of the great pleasures of being a civilized person take a hot shower man i went camping recently and i was camping for five days we wore the same clothes no shower was cold out so no showers no nothing and then finally we checked in in a hotel room on the fifth day and i took a shower and i took a shower for like an hour it felt so good and it's i don't think we we have so many awesome things like that that we we don't even appreciate so it's much likely or it's very likely rather that these people that even in atlantis probably weren't as sophisticated as us and it comes to a lot of things but they did have different methods of running their society, different methods of employing natural resources to, you know, they didn't have a gas and oil -based society.

[397] So we have to look at that as well.

[398] Like when you're dealing with people that didn't have machines and combustion engines and a gas and oil -based society, you've got to wonder, like, how does this superintelligence of the human mind manifest itself in a physical form?

[399] What seemed like it did with stone, it seemed like that was where all the intelligence went.

[400] All the thought and innovation went to structures and building these incredible geometrically accurate structures.

[401] Well, our ancestors, I think, had far more knowledge than we do.

[402] And this is to some extent also visible, I think, in the work which Jeremy Nabi is trying to do with the pharmacology industry.

[403] Far more knowledge about what, though?

[404] Knowledgeable about various things, like whether it is plants, plants how they can heal, how we can use them.

[405] You know, today we kind of like say, okay, pill X is made out of this and this molecule, and it will do this in your body.

[406] And it is this pill, which we can give you, which we have created through lots of machinery.

[407] And in the Amazon, it's not, it doesn't work like that.

[408] They'll say, what's wrong with you?

[409] They'll do the analysis.

[410] And they'll say, oh, if we boil plant Y for five hours and we mix it with plant Z, the end result will be something which will help you with this.

[411] it's knowledge -based but the preparation is so easy you either boil it or you take it in its native form or you mix and mingle it it's this very basic thing of working but you need to have the knowledge you need to know that all of these plants work and today we have the big physical approach of like you know like we have machines and power plants which are able to produce this pill but the end result is the same you get better from taking this my take on it is that they knew a lot more back then um than we think they did did but they knew a lot about the natural world.

[412] They knew a lot about healing, but I don't think they had internet.

[413] I don't think they had Google.

[414] They didn't have cars.

[415] We know way more now.

[416] And we know about them.

[417] They didn't know about us, so they can go fuck themselves.

[418] They didn't see us coming.

[419] We're here, bitch, and you're not.

[420] I think, you know, like computers and laptops, what are the odds that they had all that shit?

[421] Well, you'd have to have oil to make all that stuff.

[422] like that the one component that people have to recognize in the construction of almost every modern piece of technology is plastic and plastic is we can be made from plants it can be made from hemp fiber but for the most part it's made from fucking oil and there's a lot of the shit that's in there that's made from oil and you got to burn oil to fire up engines to fly over the fucking sky to carry these things from China you know it's a it's a really I mean there's no way around it you need some you need you need you need you need you need you need to to figure out a way to mass manufacture things in order to have a society like this.

[423] This is a completely different sort of society than they had back then.

[424] Oh, yeah, I mean, definitely.

[425] But I think there's this interesting thing.

[426] The more academics deny the existence of Atlantis, the more extreme some people make this civilization as well.

[427] And I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

[428] They were more advanced than, like what you were talking about before.

[429] They were more advanced than the people who were running around doing nothing whatsoever.

[430] on the various other continents, which is why the likes of the ancient Egyptians spoke about them, of like, hey, these guys did something.

[431] Hey, these guys lived there.

[432] This was, you know, like if you ever find something in your neighborhood of Athens, this might be related to these guys thousands of years ago.

[433] But it's not going to be a spaceship.

[434] It's not going to be something which is going to be so wow, wow, wow, wow.

[435] But it is still wow, in the sense that it was a large civilization.

[436] If we take Plato's word for it, it was pretty much Europe unified before Europe was ever unified and it was also a civilization which gave its information to other civilizations there seems to be this this handover of information even though the civilization died not everything died some of their knowledge seems to have gone over which is what the stories of the ancient Egyptians are about and how they somehow preserve this information from from their ancestors the most shocking thing to me about ancient man is the ability to move giant stones That one is the real mind fuck.

[437] Well, it's the only thing to do back then, so you probably got really good at it, you know?

[438] You got a lot of things to do, dude.

[439] You had to hunt, and you had to gather, and you had to make food.

[440] You had to make shelter.

[441] There's always shit to do, just being a human being.

[442] And back then, it was probably way more stressful to get your food than it is today.

[443] So I don't buy that.

[444] Or rocks just weighed way less back then.

[445] Did you imagine if that was the case?

[446] Yeah, because there was no way for us to judge that.

[447] It's a great deal.

[448] We know how much rocks weigh, you silly fuck.

[449] Maybe after years of rain, it starts soaking it in, getting some kind of mold.

[450] Yeah, like a wet towel, a wet towel effect for rocks.

[451] Some of the stones, like those, the Lebanon stones in Balbek, they just, how old do they think those are?

[452] Nobody knows you can't date rocks, but they, I mean, it's so many of these structures you can't date.

[453] And, I mean, trying to answer the Balbaugh thing via Stonehenge, the traditional explanation of Stonehenge is that it is 3 ,000 BC.

[454] But there's one guy, Robert Langdon, who's actually showing that these stones are probably 8 ,000 BC.

[455] And he's doing it by basically saying the holes which were found are 8 ,000 bicarbon dating results.

[456] Some of the stones which are used elsewhere, specifically the blue sarsons, are found in these holes 8 ,000 years ago.

[457] Sorry, 8 ,000 BC.

[458] So he's basically saying, you are constantly putting stonehench in this 3 ,000.

[459] B .C. framework, but actually the evidence suggests that it is 8 ,000 BC.

[460] He's trying to push it out.

[461] He's basically trying to do the reinterpretation of this.

[462] And in the case of Balbeck, in the case of so many things, it's always circumstantial dating.

[463] You know, this building has been repainted, what, a year, two years ago?

[464] And imagine if somebody, you know, five years ago says like, oh, this building, you know, dates from seven years ago because the paint is seven years ago.

[465] Well, that is circumstantial.

[466] You know, in the absence of you need to go further.

[467] You need to be able to find out more.

[468] And in the case of this building, you will probably find land registries.

[469] You will find so much information, which shows that it is probably 30, 40 years.

[470] But in the case of things like Balbeck, you don't have anything.

[471] You have a bit of plant life or some kind of discarded wood from an ancestors.

[472] You know, it's like trying to date Balbeck or Stonehenge or whatever monument by a Twix wrapper, which a tourist has left there, 3 ,000 years from them.

[473] That's funny.

[474] That's a funny way of looking at it.

[475] How big are those stones, the Baalbeck stones?

[476] They're big.

[477] Some of the stones in the foundation of the platform are 800 tons.

[478] There is one in situ which wasn't completely excavated, which was 1 ,200 tons.

[479] It is absolutely gigantic.

[480] So how tall is that?

[481] Is it like 8 feet tall, 9 feet tall?

[482] I think the 1 ,200 one is...

[483] What about the ones?

[484] It actually got moved.

[485] Those are about 8 to 12, I think, yes.

[486] Jesus Christ.

[487] meters and feet.

[488] And so what would be the theory?

[489] What is the standard academic theory about how those people who were basically hunter and gatherers, how they figured out how to do that?

[490] Largely they don't address it.

[491] Largely, it's somehow like, oh, look, they're there.

[492] The Romans did this.

[493] And to large extent, Balbeck is like that as a whole.

[494] It is the second largest temple complex which the Romans built on top and parts of that haven't been explained by traditional scientists either they kind of like will go like well you know some of these stones are 200 tons and we know that the ancient Romans were able to work with cranes of five tons and so they kind of go like so we need 40 of these cranes and you kind of go okay so where are you going to put them it's it's kind of like saying you know we need 40 people but your room can only hold five.

[495] Where are you going to put a 35 extra?

[496] You have to fit them somewhere, these cranes around this piece of rock.

[497] And so they do this all the time, whether it's the great pyramid of Egypt.

[498] Any pyramid theory about how they are built as proposed by an archaeologist is ridiculed by a project manager in the building industry because they basically go like, you can't do that, you can't build anything like that.

[499] You know, it's kind of like saying how many people do you need for the building?

[500] of this and some archaeologists will say, oh, 10 ,000, okay, fit them around this pyramid, put them all in line.

[501] They play with some of these numbers, and in the case of Balback, when it comes to the foundation stones, like, you know, some will say, well, we know in the case of Jerusalem that the ancient Romans constructed this and they were using things like 200 or 400 tons.

[502] Great.

[503] 800 tons is pretty much the double of that.

[504] And we, don't really know even how the ancient romans did this they clearly did but how they did it in the case of ballback is is unknown we can speculate wooden rollers are a great device levers wooden rollers massive amounts of slaves pushing it but still but if you put a big stone on top of wooden roller the wooden rollers basically gets destroyed it gets incinerated through the weight so you have if if ruden rollers were used somehow our ancestors were able to to do something to that wood to make something happen with that which would be able to sustain the weight on top.

[505] It doesn't seem right, though.

[506] No, and here's the thing.

[507] This is what bugs me so much.

[508] It is the fact that so much of what our ancestors did remains unexplained on a very mundane level.

[509] You know, the most basic things as to how Stonehenge was built, how every was built, why it was built, how this moat was dug.

[510] Balbeck, Jerusalem, so many things, it doesn't get explained by a scientist.

[511] And the reason why is that archaeologists dig these things up and then somehow treat it as if it's their bailiwick and they're going to come up with the explanations.

[512] Now, an archaeologist is good with a shovel, but he has no idea about the building industry.

[513] He has no idea about project management.

[514] And as soon as some of these people from the outside basically say, we know some of these things, would you like us to help, the archaeologists say basically, fuck off.

[515] this is our garden this is our playground we don't want you wow what have you now have you seen I'm sure you've seen that video ancient aliens debunked I did and you wrote a piece about it have you seen his theory about the interior ramp of how they constructed it I saw that I thought it was fascinating but still the great pyramid is still so bananas it doesn't help just knowing that they made a ramp doesn't help for folks who don't know the numbers This is really because I used to do a bit about the pyramids.

[516] The Great Pyramagiza has, what is it, 2 ,600 ,000 stones?

[517] And if you cut in place 10 a day, it would take you 664 years to build.

[518] I read that somewhere.

[519] Just 10 of those monster fucking stones a day, it would take you 664 years to make the pyramid.

[520] Like that is, that is such a crazy accomplishment that building.

[521] Well, I mean, a great friend of mine, he's unfortunately having to take care of of his dying wife, is Joseph DeVitovich.

[522] And Joseph DeVitovich is a French professor.

[523] He's called the father of his own science, geopulomers.

[524] And basically, in the 1970s, what he was looking at was he looked at rocks and he said, like, okay, I know how rocks are created, geological process, volcanic activity.

[525] But is that a way I can recreate rocks in my laboratory?

[526] And the answer was, yes, he was able to accomplish this, and he called this a geopulmer.

[527] And basically a geopulomer is a natural rock, sorry, is a man -made rock which looks almost identical to a natural rock.

[528] Now there are certain differences.

[529] In limestone, for example, you know, you see these little mollusks and all of these other things which are in there.

[530] And they're all neatly aligned because the water came in and the wave came out and they're all perfectly aligned.

[531] In a geopolar, that's not the case because basically somebody has tossed it in some structure and has basically over a period of 24 hours to 48 hours created this thing.

[532] So he went to Egypt on a holiday in the late 1970s with his wife family, looked at the Great Pyramid and said, shit, this is a geopulmer.

[533] All of these blocks are made in what I have just discovered.

[534] And he began to point out on the Giza Plateau 40 easily identifiable features about these rocks, which anybody who goes there with his book can see for them, themselves that this isn't natural stone.

[535] That's been disputed though, right?

[536] Hasn't that?

[537] I mean, that is, the geologists are not agreeing with him.

[538] There's certain ones that have actually put up a stink about that.

[539] What do you think about that?

[540] The great first one, Dr. Zai Hawass, who he didn't mention early on, he basically said, he is an idiot.

[541] This is not cement.

[542] And it isn't cement.

[543] Hawass has no idea what he's talking about.

[544] Since then, the likes of Michael Barst who is a professor, I think in a Detroit University or somewhere in American University, he has taken pretty much the role up there from Davidovich.

[545] They have submitted samples of geopolymers to some of the ancient, sorry, to Egyptian departments, laboratories, and they basically said, oh, this is natural limestone, to which Barsoom and Davidovich said, no, it's not, we created it a few weeks ago.

[546] but the basic problem is this we have a professor a father of a science a guy who has medals left right and center and the archaeologists basically say go away this is our playground we're not even going to listen to what you're going to say instead we're going to pretend that what you were saying is that the great pyramid was made of cement and we know it wasn't made of cement and that is kind of like the sad thing and you know when it comes to project management when it comes to all of these disciplines, they basically say, F off, we don't want you here.

[547] It's our playground.

[548] It's our sandpits.

[549] So there are actually, I'm looking at this, there are many people, very, very intelligent people that believe that this is made out of concrete.

[550] So the propaganda may actually be the people that are disputing it because some scientists from MIT, they, it seems like they believe.

[551] I'm trying to read this as I'm doing it.

[552] Yeah, they believe that this, it's very possible that this was what they're calling a limestone concrete and that they just made powder and mixed it there.

[553] And that's why they were all perfect because they were poured into a mold, which is far easier to do because then you're just carrying bags of shit up there instead of actual pyramids.

[554] Pyramid stones rather.

[555] I mean, there's one stone which he points out again.

[556] Like, you know, his books are mostly in French, but he has.

[557] self -published one in English.

[558] And basically he points out one stone where there is weathering in the middle.

[559] Now, weathering of a stone in the middle of a stone doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[560] How is this possible?

[561] And the only reason why it's possible is because at one point in time, probably at night, they mixed or they poured one stone to a certain level and the following day they completed it to the next level, as a result of which the weathering could both at the top and in the middle of this stone.

[562] But again, you know, throughout the pyramid complex he's able to show you and guide you around potential evidence because again there needs to be more research done but 40 points is you know more than one yeah um to kind of like do an indication that this might be the case and the sad fact to me the thing which uh abhors me is that the scientific establishment just basically says fuck off this is his actual position this makes it actually even more interesting uh his position is that only 10 % or 20 % were cast and that most of the blocks were cut.

[563] This is what he believes.

[564] Most of the blocks were carved as suggested by archaeologists, but 10 to 20 % were probably cast in areas where it could have been highly difficult to position the blocks.

[565] So that's why they can show you blocks that haven't been cast and say, see, see these unquestionably were cut.

[566] This guy's a fool.

[567] But actually, it makes a lot more sense.

[568] They figured out both.

[569] They figured out how to cast blocks and move them into positions where it would be much more difficult to cut them.

[570] And they also cut them as well.

[571] That's fucking, really a mind -blowing civilization.

[572] You really try to wrap your head around.

[573] Where did they get all that information from?

[574] And then you look at their own history and it says they were hanging out with gods.

[575] Fuck, man. It sounds so stupid if you buy into it and believe it and bring it up at a dinner party.

[576] but if it was real what a mind fuck that must have been if human beings really did coexist in the same place as aliens and they were really were teaching us and they were big giant dudes like the guy in prometheus is that possible man do you think that's possible i think that there definitely is something to be said that our ancestors were absolutely in communication with non -human intelligences i don't think that in a number of cases it was physical presence, but definitely that they were in communication with something and that they could establish this thing.

[577] It's like, you know, like, it's not like some contact which, I should put this, an intermittent phone signal, it's a constant line.

[578] They can kind of like go to whatever a statue or something in a temple and this uplinked, downlink thing works greatly.

[579] And there's also something to be said.

[580] All of these cultures across the world, they always say that, you know, the offspring of the gods somehow became the rulers.

[581] And that is definitely something which is another universal constant.

[582] And, you know, again, genetic memory is one of these things.

[583] It's been pooh -ha -hard in the 19th century.

[584] The ideas of Carl Jung and all of these things have been pushed aside.

[585] But we have hundreds, thousands of primitive cultures elsewhere who basically say they can access this pool of information on a regulated basis.

[586] And, you know, I am a firm believer that certain hallucinogenic substances really take you outside of this cardboard books outside of this framework, and that they take you into a world of intelligences, and that our ancestors were given the tools and the techniques to basically establish this link.

[587] And once this link was established, they could pretty much ask these intelligences whatever they wanted.

[588] And then it was up to the intelligences, I guess, whether to say, yeah, we'll tell you this or no, we won't tell you that.

[589] and I think that is to a large extent what our ancestors were saying about this link of the gods being present amongst them that somehow they were able to sustain a presence you know in a number of occasions it seems to be specifically in kind of like the what I would say the non -traditional societies some of them which have escaped most attention remote tribes in China and things like that there might have been a physical alien creature running around there for a while.

[590] But in most societies, specifically the famous ones, it somehow seems that these gods were non -human intelligences, not necessarily physical, but definitely present and somehow in communication with our ancestors.

[591] And how that went, very few people knew back then.

[592] And do you think that's from psychedelics, that was the communication method for the non -physical entities?

[593] I think it's definitely.

[594] Definitely one possibility.

[595] I think it's something which we can go and say this is how it could have happened.

[596] It sounds so stupid to anybody who's never done mushrooms.

[597] But if you have or if you've done...

[598] Joe, did you see that misstudyptomyne?

[599] About mushrooms?

[600] How they're saying that it's what they thought happens when you do mushrooms is totally wrong, that your mushrooms is turned...

[601] Yeah, it shuts off your brain, like you're...

[602] Whatever the mushroom's doing to you, it's almost like it flips your switch.

[603] It's like the empty.

[604] It's, and it runs the show with mushrooms.

[605] Well, you know what...

[606] It's weird.

[607] Yeah.

[608] What mushrooms are is very closely related to human neurochemistry.

[609] When you take a mushroom, mushroom is like...

[610] I forget the chemical way to describe it, but it's four -fox.

[611] Forololoxy and n -dymethyptamine.

[612] I'm not saying it right, but it's...

[613] N -N -dymethylptopamine is a part of human neural chemistry.

[614] So this stuff, this psilocybin, it's like human neurochemistry with a little added something to it.

[615] And when it hits you, it basically takes over the show.

[616] It's crazy.

[617] It's fucking really crazy.

[618] That's even scarier.

[619] Well, it is scary.

[620] The idea that McKenna always had was that it was an artificial intelligence and that we were eating it and that's how it was communicating with us and that it came here from other planets.

[621] Yeah.

[622] That's why it's so different.

[623] Apparently there's no other organism on this planet with the phosphorus in the fore position, according to McKenna.

[624] I don't even know what that means.

[625] But like Silasivan.

[626] And he believed that it probably came here as spores on an asteroid.

[627] And that's why it has such an unbelievable impact.

[628] It's like when you have a mushroom experience, if you haven't had one before, it doesn't seem like it could ever be possible.

[629] You're like, this is no way.

[630] How did I not know that this was a possibility to folks who haven't had psychedelic experiences, the idea that a psychedelic experience could somehow be otherworldly intelligence.

[631] Like I hear Richard Dawson, who I'm a huge fan of, I think he's a brilliant guy, and Richard Dawkins, rather, and all his breaking down of fundamentalist religions, I think it's fantastic stuff.

[632] But then when I've heard that the guy had never had a psychedelic experience, I'm like, my God, you have to know that there's so many books and so much work written on the connection, which, the connection between what they call entheogens or psychedelic substances and higher states of consciousness, revelations, religious experiences, like, why would you as an intellectual not want to experience that?

[633] It's not like you'd never come back or it's not like it fucking, you know, red lines your brain, sends you into a mental tree.

[634] But I think it's because the definition of a psychedelic is that it's somehow, it puts you somewhere which isn't real, so it's of no interest to explore that.

[635] Why would you want to create, why do you want to explore that stuff?

[636] I think that is a very silly way of looking at reality.

[637] I think that the idea that we even understand what that's doing to you, all that means to me is you haven't done it.

[638] It's all it means to me. If you really feel like you have some concrete definition as to what's going on in that state, I most likely say you probably haven't done it before it, because if you have done it, you'd come back very humble about your your opinions on what's going on there.

[639] It's too weird.

[640] And that's what our ancestors are saying.

[641] They had this entire system of initiations.

[642] And what we're discovering is that through a series of fasting, sleep deprivation, psychedelic drugs, whatever it is, and all of it together combined, they basically pushed you out of your comfort zone.

[643] And it was the high level.

[644] You were going to experience your ancestors.

[645] You were going to experience the gods.

[646] You were going to really find out that you were not alone, the universe and this is pretty much the everything which our ancestors are saying and like in the book i say you know at some point relatively early on 30 000 25 000 years ago we figured it out we figured out that this cardboard books the things which we see with our senses is not everything there was to reality we figured out that there was something larger there and we began to speculate and think about as to why we were here what was this you know why do we around here?

[647] What is this thing in the mind?

[648] And then, you know, they didn't have computers, they didn't have all of that stuff, but they were thinking about it, and they were experiment -based.

[649] And to a large extent, we're back to where we are, because right now you have surgeons in hospital environments who are pushing little axes or little weird things on top of machinery where the patient will never see it.

[650] But when the patient says, like, hey, doctor, why is the little thing on top of this thing there the doctor will kind of go like how did you know you had a near death experience he had an out -of -body experience you somehow were able to pick this up through nonsensory means and you know we're back there but as a whole again jumping on my horse here science isn't interested science basically says like it's nothing to do with this it's religious we're never going to look into these things and what you have is this standoff or this stalemate or whatever situation we're in whereby people hunger for information nobody who has the tools and to some extent the schooling to give us the answers is interested and so at the other end of the perspective you have wild theories you know you have the fact that the ancient Atlanteans must have had helicopters, machinery and all of these things and guess what you know I actually don't care too much.

[651] I don't believe it, but I don't care too much that it's out there because it seems somehow, you know, Eric von Danakin had to say that the NASCAR lines were a space port before a few scientists went to Peru and studied them and tried to preserve them.

[652] Before 0 .001 was interested and it was a lone woman, you know, basically trying to convince the locals not to drive over in their trucks over the NASCAR lines.

[653] She was the only one interested.

[654] Nobody else was.

[655] It took a guy to say, hey, maybe the gods have landed here, maybe this is a spaceboard before they were pushed into action.

[656] And so, you know, the fact that people are making up sometimes extremely wild claims might hopefully push these people, these scientists, off their butt into the field and do actually some of the kind of research.

[657] Even to disprove things, just to just do something on it.

[658] Do something.

[659] And, you know, in the case of the Naskolines, what they have been discovering since is so great.

[660] They have discovered pyramids.

[661] They have discovered that these people had a high civilization.

[662] There are even potentially, there are even people out there who really began to realize that what was happening there had to be seen from the sky.

[663] For folks who don't understand what the Naskolines are, just fill them in because some people might be ignorant to it.

[664] Well, the Naskolines are basically gigantic geoglyphs, some in the shape of monkeys or other animals.

[665] Quite often and mostly famous are the lines, which are just crisscross.

[666] They have basically been made by sweeping off a top layer of surface of sand and below it there's quite often a wider surface so they stay visible for hundreds of years because it's a desert condition it hardly rains at all on that plateau and you know it's come to a point by why people have said okay they have to be seen from the sky and there are a few scientists out there who've actually seen that some of the rocks near the some of the some of the lines were exposed to extreme height they also began to see that that some people were actually buried with...

[667] Extreme height, is that we said, or heat?

[668] Oh, heat.

[669] There were also people who were buried with basically what we would describe as hang glider material.

[670] And so they're beginning to find out that these people took to the skies, and one of them has actually proposed that they had balloons, that this is why the hot air basically was encapsulated and they went to the sky.

[671] Other people, you know, are pursuing things like kites.

[672] All of these things, all of a sudden are becoming within the bail wick of the potential people are looking at this and see whether this is possible, whether they can find evidence around NASCAR.

[673] And so, you know, this, it took somebody to say, hey, this thing needs to be seen from the sky before people are really beginning to say, oh yeah, there is something to this NASCAR civilization.

[674] There were pyramids there.

[675] You know, this is not an important civilization which was there.

[676] that is a crazy concept that they might have had some sort of air travel they figured out some sort of plane or something now if it was just hand gliding would that be enough is that possible there's definitely evidence that there was some kind of hand gliding obviously the environment was allowing for that as well i think people would try that shit if you get at the top of a big cliff and the wind is blowing like crazy and you see a bird doing it you know there's some crazy motherfucker that's going to try to make a wing.

[677] I mean, that's probably always been people.

[678] People probably always try to figure, put some animal skins and strap it down.

[679] I mean, it's like you're just mimicking what you see right in front of you that already works.

[680] You know, wow, that's crazy if they figured out some sort of rudimentary air flight.

[681] I mean, actually, I believe the latest Boeing's, the 737 and all the 800 series of that, they have like these little things at the end of the wind which stick up now.

[682] And it's the Boeing engineers who, looked at some of the birds, specifically the birds of prey, and they realized that these birds had little feather at the end as well.

[683] And so they began to test in the wind tunnels whether putting this thing at the end of the wings of planes would help.

[684] And it kind of like improved stability and all of that stuff like, you know, like percentages, which really were kind of like out of the norm.

[685] Like nature, birds are superb flyers and we just mimic them when we are designing aircraft.

[686] One of the most fucked up things about that area around the NASCAR lines is those skeletons they find with the elongated heads where these people, they took their heads of the babies and they like smushed them to form, like they tried to get them to look like aliens.

[687] Like you would think of, if you think of an alien, you think of someone with a really big, long head, you know, and they did that on purpose to their heads.

[688] I mean, again, these are the same people like you and I. Your child, would you subject your child to wooden planks and years of basically, you know, probably not, you know, like, abuse in the school by having these elongated skulls?

[689] And they say they did it because they somehow, these children were special or going to be special, in a sense that they were going to resemble the gods.

[690] Brian, have you seen that shit before?

[691] Pull it up.

[692] Google elongated skulls.

[693] Just Google that, and you'll see, I bet Peru is even more specific.

[694] It's a very, very strange practice.

[695] And, yeah, and it was really common.

[696] It's not like they found, like, one or two of these.

[697] They found, like, fucking burial grounds filled with these fucking things, where they stretched out people's heads.

[698] I don't know, do you know the number of how many of these different skulls?

[699] they found?

[700] It depends.

[701] I mean, we're talking about hundreds when it comes across the world.

[702] And it is a worldwide phenomenon.

[703] Like, you know, one of the images there had to do with one from Egypt.

[704] They are found in North America.

[705] They're found across the world.

[706] And didn't Tutankhamun have a very elongated head himself?

[707] It seemed natural, but an oddly shaped head himself?

[708] Well, in the depictions him and his dad were depicted as such, yeah.

[709] He had a normal skull as a human being, but he was depicted as this weird creature.

[710] Now, of course, his dad, which we all assume is Akanaten, he's really depicted weirdly.

[711] Apart from a weird hat, all of his joints are weird as well.

[712] And again, they're trying to explain it the way of this he had more felons or something like that, some kind of disease, which basically means that you have deformities of your fingers, your bones.

[713] but they haven't found his body.

[714] Akanathan's body is missing.

[715] And I find it interesting that one of the potentially more interesting bodies is missing in action.

[716] If anybody knows the whereabouts of Akanatna's body, please help.

[717] Because he was an interesting guy.

[718] He absolutely took over a system of ancient Egypt and basically said you're all mistaken.

[719] You can experience the gods in certain other ways and I'm going to push forward my religion and basically tell you how it is.

[720] And I think what happened was that in his case, again, this trepination of elongating skulls, it has to happen from birth.

[721] And I think his revelation happened.

[722] Obviously, he was a teenager or an adult when he had it.

[723] He couldn't travel back in time and do it to his own skull.

[724] And Tutankhamun, I think, was already too old as well.

[725] This have it done to him so it would have been the next generation basically Tutankhamun's children where they could have performed it on if they so wanted to but definitely in art they were depicted as such if they could well it seems like in art it might have been exaggerated but it does seem like there's people that are saying that the skull itself of Tutankhamun was elongated and is the skull of his family apparently other members of his family Who else was, of his family was alive?

[726] He had, I think Tia or Ty was his wife.

[727] I think he had a sister.

[728] I think he had some deceased people who were dying before him.

[729] Again, the great controversy is, you know, did he die naturally of was he murdered?

[730] Robert Beowal and Ahmed Osman have written about it in their recent book, and it's a great controversy which doesn't want to go away.

[731] Yeah, that's the most.

[732] recent one is the National Geographic saying that he was not murdered violently that CT scans show huh what a fucking nutty fine that must have been they found that in 1926 huh?

[733] You imagine just digging and you hit that thing in the middle of that sandy ass desert where there's nothing going on and you all the sudden hit this incredible treasure trove of artwork and just this insight into what it was like back then how many of those tombs were there that just got found and raided and just stripped of all their wealth so many of them the majority too what a what a huge huge like loss for history because just what we found makes you just go what the fuck was going on back then when you look at the sarcophagus and the gold and the guild work and you're like with this these people were living so much differently than anybody in Europe.

[734] And I mean, just, you know, like in the new world, in Cori Canco in Cusco, you had an entire temple made out of gold.

[735] You had golden animals.

[736] The entire courtyard was made out of gold.

[737] And the Spanish came.

[738] They melted it all down, put it on ships to sail back to Spain.

[739] And English pirates basically sang the ships and all of that gold is sitting at the bottom of the sea.

[740] and so you know it's kind of like double sad because it was first melted there are stories that some of it has been secreted away people in about one every 50 years there's a guy who comes forward and says like i was led into certain aspects of of basically subterranean parts of this original structure and there are still something there people like chavier sierra have have written fiction books about it that one hasn't been translated from Spanish into English yet but um there's you know there was so much gold there was so much treasure and so much it has disappeared and it is so sad to see that's so little remains and yeah because Tutankhamman was just one guy he was a minor god he was a minor pharaoh nobody cared about him ramsus was so much more important just imagine what he would have had ah it's crazy it's really crazy when you think about what they could have discovered We know so much just because of Tutankham's discovery.

[741] It's saying that the examinations of his skull, though, that he did have an elongated head.

[742] Probably wasn't as exaggerated as the images, but he had impacted wisdom teeth as well.

[743] And he had a cleft palate.

[744] So they know that the medicine was not up to par.

[745] So that's at least good evidence that if this guy was a pharaoh, they didn't understand basic dentistry.

[746] They didn't know how to fix cleft pallets.

[747] So they weren't ahead of us with everything.

[748] No. They, again, they were very good at certain things, but they were crab at others.

[749] I mean, the ancient Egyptians, for example, as much as they built things, they never built things like arches.

[750] They were able to build bridges, but they never built arches.

[751] Now, it's possible that they could build arches, but they basically didn't think they were aesthetically pleasing.

[752] But certain things like, you know, what we would think they would have been able to do.

[753] they might not have been able to do.

[754] But at the same time, you know, building structures with hundreds of tons of stone in there, whether it's the Valley Pyramid Complex or the Great Pyramid, they were able to do.

[755] And people often say when it comes to the Great Pyramid, oh, like, you know, okay, it was the Eiffel Tower last century, well, two centuries ago now, which rivaled it.

[756] That's King Tut's actual skull.

[757] That is indeed somewhat elongated.

[758] Yeah, that's his actual skull.

[759] That's the actual cat scan of his skull.

[760] You could pull that up, Brian.

[761] We could take a look at that.

[762] Wow.

[763] But that's nothing compared to the images.

[764] He's got a fucked up head, for sure.

[765] He'd made fun of in high school.

[766] But he didn't look like an alien.

[767] It's probably why to put him in private education.

[768] What if he did have a fucking giant brain?

[769] What if the pharaohs were like more?

[770] What if they originally had some alien in them?

[771] I've eventually got bred out.

[772] Is that possible?

[773] Well, I mean, again, it's possible if somebody were to do research into it to explore it.

[774] What we know is that our ancestors said that all of these kings were partly human, partly divine, and that they were here to make a bridge between our world and the world of the gods.

[775] That was their job.

[776] And if they were unable to do that, they were quite often kicked out and basically told, okay, we'll find another one, a substitute for you.

[777] The ancient Egyptian pharaohs, specifically when they became older, were quite often told to, to perform a hapset festival, which was basically a fitness test whereby they physically and mentally had to prove that they could somehow communicate with the world of the gods.

[778] That is clearly as a job specification.

[779] They were told to do this.

[780] And clearly it means that this communication with the gods for them somehow involved a physical aptitude.

[781] It wasn't that they were simply inventing certain things.

[782] They were basically told, need to be physically fit to do these things, whether it is through hallucinogenic substances, some kind of other means which we haven't been able to identify.

[783] But across the world, the job of a king was to be an enabler, a bridge between us and the world of the ancestors, the gods, whatever you want to call them.

[784] I think it's very difficult for people in this day and age to wrap their heads around the idea that at one point in time, the whole reality of human beings was very, very different that it is now.

[785] But if you stopped and thought about it, and if there was some introduction or some intervention, rather, of some sort of alien consciousness, physical alien forms, and then they weren't there anymore, and they weren't there for thousands and thousands of years, how much would we know?

[786] How much evidence would be left?

[787] What would be around that we could point fingers at?

[788] Well, there'd be like stone carvings that show giants holding small people.

[789] They have those.

[790] They really do have.

[791] those.

[792] I mean, there, there is some, a lot of ancient art that the ancient Sumerian stuff is the weirdest stuff, where it actually has double helix DNA.

[793] The ancient Sumer, like, I've had conversations with people that try to deny that they had some knowledge of the, the workings of the solar system.

[794] Like, it's really, you'd have to be crazy, you look at their, their, their, what they've, what they left in stone tablets, like, they knew where the stars were.

[795] They knew where the planets were.

[796] They knew the constellations.

[797] They knew, for sure they knew what was going on in our solar system.

[798] They knew where the planets were.

[799] They had them in the right order.

[800] They had like little gray.

[801] And people would try to say, no, that's not the planets.

[802] Those are just some stars.

[803] Like, what are you talking?

[804] Why is there the right amount?

[805] Why are they the same size?

[806] Why is it in proportion?

[807] The big ones here and the smaller ones there.

[808] That looks like the sun and the solar system.

[809] It looks like our planets.

[810] And, you know, very basic things like Nabrosk skydisk seems to be this metal plate, which has a moon and a sun on it and then some kind of like bars.

[811] And you kind of think, like, oh, how sweet.

[812] Our ancestors were trying to depict the sun and the moon.

[813] You know, how clever of them are little ancestors.

[814] And then some people start to analyze this for real, and they realize that if you hold it in front of you, and you direct it to the horizon, these little bars, which you might think are of no significance whatsoever, mark on the place where these were found in Germany the position of the rising of the sun and the setting of the sun on things like the solstices and the equinoxes.

[815] And all of a sudden you kind of go, Oh shit, it looks stupid, but actually, you know, it's a very clever device.

[816] What's the name of this device again?

[817] It's the Nebra disk, Nebra -Disc, N -E -B -R -A.

[818] There's one thing that you talked about in your book that we've talked about on this podcast before because it's always fascinated me. That device.

[819] How do you say it again?

[820] What's the...

[821] The Antikatera device.

[822] Explain that thing, because that's a mind -fucking a half.

[823] Well, the Antikatera device is basically a piece of metal, which was heavily corroded, found in the shipwreck of the coast of...

[824] Greece in 1901 or 1902, it was put in a museum where it's set for several decades.

[825] And in 1950s and 60s, a guy called Derek the Prize Solo, sorry, Derek the Solo Prize, became interested in this.

[826] And he began to look at it, he began to study this, and he felt that this somehow was a scale model of our solar system, thrown in some kind of constellations, throw in obviously the moon, throw in some zodiacal signs.

[827] and he began to experiment with this he pushed the theory forward which was attacked because we all know that the Greeks are stupid and we're not able to do this because the earth was flat wasn't it until somebody in the 16th century proved otherwise so he was attacked but in the last 10 15 years and specifically with computer modeling techniques what they have found is basically that Derek Price wasn't 100 % right but that he definitely had the right frame of mind that this was basically a scale of our of our solar system now what they've been able to show is that the Greeks were using Babylonian things like metonic cycles about the moon that basically this device was taking in astronomical information from ancient Babylonia the Greek native to Greek things general information about you you know, how the Earth has 365 days to go around the sun and all of that stuff, that they made this device, which basically, you know, would have had the sun at its middle and then all the planets going around it, that this device actually worked, that this kind of like was put in motion and then continued.

[828] So it's like a watch for the universe.

[829] Yeah.

[830] Or the solar system.

[831] And they think, because they don't know, you know, this device was found.

[832] So they go into ancient accounts and ancient Greek accounts and trying to find.

[833] out whether anybody is talking about it.

[834] And they have found sporadic references to people basically saying this would sit in a temple.

[835] So somehow our ancient Greek ancestors, we're creating these devices, we're putting them into temples to basically show how the universe worked.

[836] Imagine that.

[837] Imagine going into a Christian church right now and finding a scale model of the solar system in there.

[838] But for the Greeks, that was apparently what they wanted.

[839] and we have what is the idea of how old this thing is the device is probably second century or first century BC and that is what remains of it so it's at least 2 ,000 years old yes Jesus fucking Christ what is the what's the academic response that like what do they believe it is they are silently accepting really they are they basically you know they realize they can't contest its origins it's found in the shipwreck they can't contest that it's 2 ,000 years old so they have to accept for what it is they have to accept that there are gears where they rebel at is if somebody would push the boat out too much so right now they kind of say well you know it's an it's a representation of the solar system but it has some errors in there and to some extent they can get away with that because basically what we have is a piece of material which was in seawater for 2 ,000 years and it is painstakingly being kind of like, you know, how many wheels does it have here, how wide is this?

[840] All of this is reconstruction which is going to take decades more before we have a completely accurate representation of what this device was.

[841] Because it's sort of corroded and mush together.

[842] It's completely corroded.

[843] Obviously it sits in a museum which basically means that they're very reluctant to do destructive testing or anything of taking apart.

[844] So it relies on technology to go through this piece of corroded material and come up with better images, better imaging software and all of that stuff to identify what the wheels precisely were.

[845] But basically the overall picture is this, that the ancient Greeks were able to do certain things which we didn't give them credit for.

[846] And very slowly the academics are kind of going yeah, okay, that's fine.

[847] Because it's safe.

[848] It's ancient Greece.

[849] We've credited the ancient Greeks with an awful lot of these things.

[850] And even though it sits somewhat outside of the Belewik, we don't really want to credit them with a machine.

[851] I mean, people actually refer to it as the first computer.

[852] Yeah, and spell it.

[853] So, folks, because I know people are scrambling right now to figure out, how do you spell it?

[854] Anti -Katera, anti -as -in, we don't care about them.

[855] And K -Y -T -H -E -R -A.

[856] So go check out that if you really want to get your fucking...

[857] It's like there's an eye in the middle, almost, like a third.

[858] I think that's just a screw or a bolt or something like that.

[859] The whole thing is fascinating, though.

[860] Look at that.

[861] That's 2 ,000 years old, that they were making something so complicated.

[862] It's like a steering wheel.

[863] It looks like, yeah, it could be, you look like it could be like a really ancient clock.

[864] Yeah.

[865] A cat clock.

[866] That's a cat clock.

[867] 2 ,000 years ago, and that obviously was from some technology that we don't understand.

[868] We don't know where they got the information from.

[869] We don't know anything about it.

[870] Nope.

[871] But what we do know about it is that, you know, again, our ancestors were more intelligent, were more clever than we standard give them credit for.

[872] And it's also a good representation of what happens to something just after 2 ,000 years.

[873] Now, if you think about what 2 ,000 years is to human history and then go back and say, well, this guy, the Egyptologist was like, where is the evidence of this 10 ,000 -year -old culture?

[874] Where would that stuff be?

[875] Yeah.

[876] Eight more thousand plus years, that's not going to exist anymore.

[877] It's obviously corroding away after 2000.

[878] And if you come to the last ice age, 10, 12 ,000 years ago, you know, parts of Britain were under an ice sheet, two miles thick.

[879] It washed away everything.

[880] It changed the layout of hills.

[881] Any hut, which we would have had there, any peace would have just been completely obliterated by the power of the ice.

[882] Yeah, that's another thing that people have to take into consideration when you think about how long people have been around.

[883] Like, we had to move around a lot.

[884] Like, there's spots where people are around that were erased by miles of ice slowly crushing everything in its path.

[885] Literally, like, a giant eraser.

[886] You know, a lot of people on Twitter, like, were freaking out about the Tutankan thing, showing me all these images of how they get babies to stretch their heads out.

[887] It doesn't mean that he's an alien.

[888] I'm not saying Tutankhamun was an alien.

[889] What I am saying is, and I think it's fascinating, and I don't think, I don't see how it could be disputed, that all of these people who are stretching their baby's heads out are trying to get their baby's heads to look like what we consider the classic image of aliens.

[890] That, to me, it's very weird.

[891] It's very weird that you would want to do that.

[892] Like, I know that there's weird things that people do culturally.

[893] Like they stretch their necks out, they put plates in their lips.

[894] There's a lot of wacky shit that people do.

[895] But that one, to me, is really interesting when you consider the fact that you're dealing with some culture that may or may not have had something to do with space flight or you know or you know air flight and and they do it because they say to resemble the gods to resemble the ancestors that's why we do it like you know nipple piercings and all of that stuff which might be considered weird in some cultures we know why they do it we know why women do it um there's always a reason which we can identify and in this case the reason is because they want to resemble the gods then there's another thing uh that uh i saw you touched on in this book is how many different pyramids and structures they're finding in south america Yes.

[896] It's really bananas, isn't it?

[897] Well, I mean, you know, I wrote a previous book called A New Pyramid Age five years ago, and that book is now actually completely out of date because up until 1994, when Robert Beauvall wrote to Iran mystery, we had this idea, there are pyramids in Egypt and their pyramids in the Mayan culture, and that's pretty much it.

[898] But now, and specifically around 2006 and 7, every single week, some pyramid was found somewhere.

[899] And we're in a situation right now whereby the academics agree that the oldest pyramids in the world are in Peru, Corral, 2 ,800.

[900] Now, the Egyptians could be older.

[901] We have carbonating results, as we were saying, but they refuse to publish them.

[902] But, you know, officially accepted, Coral Pyramids are older.

[903] The largest one, volume -wise, are La Cholula in Mexico as well.

[904] And then height -wise, there is a new contender in the Bosnian pyramids, which might actually be 220 meters, i .e. 660 yards high, which is pretty much quite a bit higher than the Great Pyramid.

[905] All of this thing is really changing the pyramid landscape.

[906] And also what is happening is that we're beginning to understand why the pyramids were built, why these structures were there.

[907] And there is this kind of like uniform template, which basically says that our ancestors somehow built pyramids because they were linked with kingship and somehow enabled our ancestors and specifically the king to once again be this bridge from one world to the other.

[908] What is the controversy about the Bosnian pyramids?

[909] Because I know even Robert Schock from Boston University doesn't believe that it's a man -made structure.

[910] The controversy is that there is very much a divide between Western science and former East Block Science on this.

[911] It is very much maintained by a small, more group of people within the archeological establishment.

[912] Anthony Harding is one of them.

[913] He was the former president of the Western sort of the European Archaeological Society, and he basically said that if he found any archaeologist digging on the Bosnian Pyramid side, he would forever make sure that this guy or woman never had any other job.

[914] The reason I think why it is so controversial is because they are not in control.

[915] The license went to Sammoz Manage, who has three PhDs, one in history, mind studies, one in business, and another one who's forgotten, I think it's in anthropology.

[916] Actually, no, sorry, in economics.

[917] And they realized that they were too late.

[918] They realized that, you know, this was going to be run differently than traditional archaeological digs.

[919] And they made up some incredible, you know, BS about it.

[920] Like, What happened early on was that Samus Managic wrote to Zahi Hawass and wanted to basically wanted a geologist to come and study these pyramids.

[921] He sent Dr. Raleigh Barakat.

[922] Barakat stayed there for roughly two months.

[923] He did the analysis and he said that these pyramids were man -made.

[924] He was then attacked by Hawaz basically saying, I never sent Barakat there.

[925] to which Osmanagh is basically so the latter signed by Hawass saying, like, you know, what is this?

[926] I was there in 2008.

[927] I've been there on a number of occasions, but I was there in 2008 when the first international conference on the Bosnian pyramids was being held.

[928] You had the people who were in charge of the Chinese pyramids, who basically doing the excavations in QSiam, involving such things, you know, as the emperor who unified China.

[929] There were 30 of the leading Egyptologists.

[930] there, the current Minister of Antiquities.

[931] Mohamed Ibrahim Ali was one of the people present there.

[932] He was at that moment in time, the Dean of Archaeology of Ayn Chains.

[933] Another dean of archaeology of Cairo University was there.

[934] In short, 30 of the leading Egyptologists and geologists from Egypt were there.

[935] When you go on to things like Wikipedia, however, the opening sentence will be that the pyramids are natural phenomenon.

[936] But I would invite anybody to click on the top.

[937] talk page of Wikipedia when it comes to the Bosnian Pyramids, and you will see a guy called Doug Weller who's constantly over there.

[938] And he gets asked the question somewhere on the talk page, basically saying, well, in 2008, this committee of, remember, they were discovered in 2005, first excavations happened in 2006.

[939] 2008 was the first time when all of these scientists gathered.

[940] They have since gathered in 2011 and 2012 as well.

[941] But in 2008, the recommendation of all of these scientists was that they should continue digging and that there was evidence to point out and to suspect that these were more than likely man -made.

[942] Since then, there has been more evidence there.

[943] When Doug Weller is asked, why can the conclusions of the International Conference on the Bosnian Pyramids in 2008 not be mentioned on the front page of the entrance of the Bosnian Pyramid?

[944] He says, well, people who believe in creation have these semi -sudo -archological conferences as well, and Wikipedia should not adhere to these things.

[945] Sure, but in this case, when it comes to the Bosnian pyramids, the leading lights of archaeology signed off, physically signed off with their signature on these conclusions from 2008.

[946] But there is this idea, you know, that we should not look at it.

[947] And again, it has to do with the facts.

[948] Why?

[949] What about Robert Schock, though?

[950] Because he's not a...

[951] Well, Robert Schock went there in 2007 when very little wasn't covered.

[952] So much more has happened since.

[953] And I would actually invite him to go back.

[954] I would invite everybody to go back.

[955] What have they found since?

[956] It's so convincing.

[957] They have done pretty much more excavations.

[958] They have found, you know, at that moment in time of the tunnel complex, pretty much what you had in 2007 was roughly 75 yards of tunnel complex.

[959] It looked like going in one direction for, 40, 50 yards and 25 yards in another direction.

[960] Since then they have found 1 ,000 yards of this.

[961] They have found that it loops back.

[962] They have found exposed areas where they didn't have to even scrape anything out, where it just is.

[963] They have found underground rivers.

[964] They have found gigantic stone boulders weighing 8 tons lying in the middle of these things, of these tunnel complexes.

[965] They have dug up elsewhere.

[966] They have found how, for example, tree pyramids are perfectly the tops of them are perfectly equidistant.

[967] They have found how on certain dates of the year, the pyramid of the sun casts a shadow precisely on the top of the pyramid of the moon.

[968] All of these things are, you know, things which have been discovered since 2007.

[969] And what Shock was looking at in 2007 was very little.

[970] They kind of like, you know, it's almost kind of like going into your garden and saying, hey, I've hit this patch.

[971] It's 10 inches.

[972] white and it's a stone and it might be something completely else and you ask a guy about the 10 inches it seems to me that uh go beckley tepe was uh the first real significant monkey wrench that they had to discover you know that they had to they had to admit that this fucking thing was 14 000 plus years old there's no getting around it and it is uh at this point i believe it's 5 % has been excavated is that what it is at now yes i mean they keep going so the percentages go up but it's so it's a slow process the excavation so five five percent of it has been uncovered and it was purposely covered up 14 ,000 years ago yes and it's so incredible i mean like you know they'll kind of like tell you oh you know t -shaped columns blah blah blah blah this but look at the images this is three -dimensional carving of of animals and kind of yeah well that's the folks don't understand the you know like when you like say if you had a flat wall and you you wanted to carve a monkey into it like you would just draw the monkey like you would on a two -dimensional piece of paper that's not what they did they actually made it larger and then cut the monkey it wasn't a monkey but they cut like a lizard they cut different animals out of it so that they stuck out and then the rest of it was flat and smooth so it all came from one giant piece of stone and they had the technology to trim everything else straight around it get to that one spot and then construct this little relief animal.

[973] It's really weird.

[974] Yeah, absolutely.

[975] And, you know, I think it's on something on par which we, again, don't see for thousands of years, the ancient Egyptians did it somewhat, but I think really it takes us to Gothic times and cathedral building when you see some of these intricacies once again on display.

[976] And it's all built at a time where they believe people were just 100 % hunter -gatherers.

[977] When you go back to 14 ,000 years, the standard academic model is that people were like really unsophisticated back sitting on a boom yeah just chasing animals and throwing sticks out of them and shit meanwhile these people and they found this because a dude was just like sheep herding and he found a rock yeah he like kicked this rock was moving around what the fuck is this so he starts digging around it and realizes what was it nine feet 19 feet tall how how many feet was the column yeah i don't know the exact dimensions but basically like somebody in the 1960s you know had looked at it, and the thing was like, oh, this is a medieval Byzantine cemetery of no interest whatsoever, and then everything happened in the early 1990s.

[978] There are now people who are actually beginning to do investigations into it and are coming up with stellar alignments and the fact that these ancestors who built Quebec -Tabee had knowledge of the stars, and what is interesting is not simply that they had knowledge of the stars and the constellations, but that the kind of stars and constellations they were interested in happens to be the kind of constellations which other cultures like ancient Egypt and the minds were interested in as well so you have this continuity of knowledge and you know the more research is going to happen there in Gobhagli Tapi the more is going to be exposed and there are actually pockets of of other structures near Gabi Tapi which are actually slightly older but again it's going to be piecemeal given to us as to how we are older and more interesting than we really think we are.

[979] The whole thing's crazy.

[980] They're 10 feet high, these giant T -shaped monolithic pillars.

[981] They're limestone, and there's another bigger pair of pillars is placed in the center of the structures.

[982] It's craziness.

[983] And again, it's an enormous site.

[984] They're just slowly starting to piece it together.

[985] What do they use?

[986] Do they x -ray the ground or something?

[987] How they find out how big it is before they uncover it?

[988] Yeah, they're doing basically geophis.

[989] And this is just one of them.

[990] This is just one of them that might exist.

[991] And we could easily stumble upon one in a year that's 10 ,000 years older than that.

[992] Yeah.

[993] Oh, I mean, you know, Karel, the pyramids which we were talking about just now in Peru, 40 years ago, people looked at them and said, like, they look like shit.

[994] They're like, they don't even look like anything man -made.

[995] And guess what?

[996] You know, erosion destroyed these things.

[997] It's like looking at the Antiquetera device.

[998] and thinking this is just a piece of crap that's 2 ,000 years old things change put a long play record in the sunshine and we know what happens to it as well but we need to recognize that sometimes we misidentify it and then we go back and we say oh shit this is so much more interesting than we originally thought it was and that is happening relatively a lot Quebec Tappi is an example of that Karel Pyramids is another one of them It's fascinating that the more a culture advances, the more easily its records are destroyed.

[999] Because in the beginning, you're just carving shit on rocks.

[1000] And then when it gets to us, we've got, you know, micro -usb cards in your fucking cell phone.

[1001] And, you know, you lose that little fucker or, you know, it's gone or, you know, leave it around.

[1002] It gets stepped on a couple times.

[1003] It's done, you know.

[1004] Leave it in the ground.

[1005] The ground will eat it and absorb it in a few years.

[1006] It'll be gone.

[1007] It's fascinating to think that if we had some sort of a reset button, like you, look at this hurricane that just hit New York and New Jersey and a massive amount of devastation that it did.

[1008] And just on a purely practical level, like how all of a sudden these people are unable to survive, we really need to send very basic things like clothing and food out to them.

[1009] You know, it just shows you how reliant we are on technology to keep our food fresh, to keep our food frozen, to keep us warm.

[1010] And when that isn't there anymore, we are unable to cope.

[1011] these people really need help from the rest of us because we have become so over -sophisticated that we can no longer survive in certain conditions.

[1012] And we out here in Southern California, until we get an earthquake, we don't even know what the fuck weather is.

[1013] We are completely detached.

[1014] That's why some of the most clueless people live here, some of the people that are the most detached from nature and from the concept of the fact that we are a part of an ecosystem and we were in fact on a planet because when you live in Florida and one of those motherfuckers come through and you realize that this is possible that the earth can possibly have this sort of a crazy violent and powerful reaction is very humbling it's very humbling and it makes you like oh we got a plan for this okay we might have to dig holes like deep in the ground and cement them in and build some kind of a shelter that you could survive through this because being on the surface is not an option.

[1015] Here in California, we don't have that.

[1016] Every now and then the ground moves, but we forget about it.

[1017] It only moves like every couple decades.

[1018] Everybody freaks out, moves to Colorado, and they slowly creep back in, and everybody pretends it never happens.

[1019] It just keeps on going on building houses on the side of hills with stilts.

[1020] Have you seen those fucking things?

[1021] Oh, yes.

[1022] How hilarious are those?

[1023] Coming from what you know about ancient history, like, what are you doing with this temporary house you have, you silly bitch?

[1024] Yeah.

[1025] And, you know, but here's the difference, I think.

[1026] You know, our ancestors were just like us.

[1027] They wanted to build that beautiful house.

[1028] They wanted to have that beautiful view.

[1029] But they made sure it wasn't built on wooden sticks.

[1030] They made gigantic foundations in stone.

[1031] This is the reason, like, you know, like Balback is, you know, seismically active, but definitely not as much as things like Kusko, where the earth shakes every five seconds.

[1032] And the Inca civilization built for this, They built giganticly weird -shaped stones in old shapes, whereby we know they would stand earthquakes.

[1033] Is that why they had things that were like curvy and they fit in like jigsaw puzzles?

[1034] Absolutely.

[1035] Because, you know, what happens, you know, the Sherman Oaks was an epicenter in, I think, the 94 earthquake.

[1036] And basically two plates kind of like made houses jump up.

[1037] And then from the other side, they basically gave them a different seller, so to speak.

[1038] and so because we built so linearly you know houses I mean I'm slightly exaggerating here jump up and jump down again but because all of these stones kind of go okay we can't jump up we can't jump up we can't jump down we kind of like we're stuck because we're so wedged with these other stones they're earthquake resistant and our ancestors understood this they employ this but somehow you know despite some of these billion dollar well okay slight exaggeration million dollar houses in Los Angeles the architects don't seem to willing to borrow from our Inca ancestors when it comes to design.

[1039] Planned the obsolescence.

[1040] That's what it is.

[1041] No one's making a house that's going to live for 10 ,000 years.

[1042] They just want a house that's good for like a couple of hundred, insulate it, make it eco.

[1043] How long are your solar panel is good for?

[1044] Is the solar panel even good for 100 years?

[1045] I think they're mostly outdated by the ability to get like they want to be replaced because they constantly keep doing better ones, which get more power out of it.

[1046] Now you wrote a rebuttal to the dude who made that video, which was the, yeah, Chris White, who made the, it was ancient aliens debunked.

[1047] And essentially, he pointed out errors that existed on the television show.

[1048] And then you made, you, you rebutted his video.

[1049] What did you feel like it was wrong about his video?

[1050] Well, there's several things wrong.

[1051] And, you know, one of the things is that even though he's not your traditional skeptic, he does betray some of those.

[1052] things.

[1053] He will go and read something on the internet and will say, well, on the internet, I found something else.

[1054] And some of the science he references like Rational Wiki, which is basically a skeptic Wikipedia.

[1055] And he'll kind of like say, look, this guy shows you how, when it comes to the people in Mohan Yadaro, how they were, you know, like on ancient aliens, it is said that these people are lying hand in hand in the middle of the street.

[1056] And this guy says that they were buried.

[1057] Well, this guy's article is actually online, and this guy actually says, when they were doing initial excavations in Mahan Yadaro, they were done so crapply that you don't know.

[1058] It is open for speculation.

[1059] They might have died in the street.

[1060] They might have been buried.

[1061] Nobody knows.

[1062] And this guy says that himself.

[1063] He then goes on to basically say, but in my opinion they were buried.

[1064] So he's basically siding purposely towards the skeptical thing when it's still an open point of contention.

[1065] Yeah, I mean, on a number of occasions I agree with him.

[1066] Like, you know, there are certain things which people hold dearly and will say on camera, which I don't agree with.

[1067] You're fucked whenever Georgio goes, what Georgio Suclos goes.

[1068] Is it possible?

[1069] Oh, you motherfucker, you got me. Because as soon as he does that, dude, it's fucking, everything's aliens.

[1070] Is it possible?

[1071] But, I mean, that's like, you know, I mean, my biggest beef with him is to do with crystal skulls.

[1072] Like, he makes it appear as if he comes up with this name and says, like, Anna Mitchell Hedges, never, you know, she always tried to sell the crystal skull, and she never allowed for scientific dating.

[1073] And I said, like, well, she did.

[1074] She gave it to Eulet Packard.

[1075] and she gave it to the British Museum and he then comes back and says like well I know about the British Museum analysis in 1936 I even mentioned it in the documentary and you kind of go look no you're actually referring to you yourself claim to have read this article in this article there is a photograph of Anna Mitchell Hedges in the British Museum when she was doing the dating by the way there's an entire video of it which the BBC made in 1980 or 81.

[1076] And you can see Mitchell Hedges in the British Museum with the British Museum skull and her skull there.

[1077] I'm talking about the 1980s dating.

[1078] But that is, you know, that is you know, Chris is again, he's not your typical skeptic but he does this thing of like, I have found something on the internet which says something differently.

[1079] Therefore you have to be wrong.

[1080] But there was definitely a lot of shit that he was right about, right?

[1081] There was a lot of errors that you pointed out.

[1082] He makes some clever misdirections though with some of it as well.

[1083] Kind of like, you know, like, yes, Giorgio is wrong when he says diorite or whatever the other one is.

[1084] But it doesn't change anything to do with the density or the hardness of that material.

[1085] He also comes up with kind of like what I think is sometimes the misdirection of like, he'll kind of say like, why is David Hatcher Child just talking about levitation when it comes to the Easter Island statues when they could have been put on wooden rollers?

[1086] Well, the reason why David Hatcher Childress is talking about it is because the locals say that they walked, that they were floated into space.

[1087] So ancient aliens is discussing the possibility whether it is possible that there was such a thing as levitation.

[1088] It's a question mark.

[1089] We're exploring the possibility that our ancestors might be wrong.

[1090] Our ancestors actually don't say that they were put on wooden rollers.

[1091] They might have been put on wooden rollers.

[1092] That might have happened.

[1093] Our ancestors might have complained and speculated and said, like, oh, well, wouldn't roller sound so boring?

[1094] Let's say they levitate it.

[1095] But it is about the exploration of the possibility.

[1096] And this is what ancient aliens does.

[1097] It's saying, should we take our ancestors' word for it?

[1098] Is this possible?

[1099] And then, you know, it's up to the viewer to decide whether or not it's the case.

[1100] But the biggest beef I have with Chris White is the following.

[1101] And it is very clever what he does.

[1102] He says, no matter how many mistakes I have found, By the fault, I know that the ancient alien theory is wrong.

[1103] So even if he finds nothing wrong with the ancient alien series, he basically says in his opening and in his closing, I know that this is impossible.

[1104] And he does a very clever trick as well, which is basically he says, okay, I have found one error here, I have found, sorry, one error here, I have found another error there, the third one there.

[1105] Great, that's 50 hours of television, you know.

[1106] If you find 50 errors in there, it's quite good.

[1107] But he sees every evidence as evidence of somehow there's a vast conspiracy by us to misdirect him.

[1108] Well, there's certainly, let's be honest, there's certainly a confirmation bias that's involved with almost every fringe subject, whether it's ghosts or Bigfoot or aliens.

[1109] there is an unquestionable confirmation bias where people who really want to believe in it find ways to believe in it.

[1110] But it's the same with traditional archaeologist.

[1111] Dr. Zahi Hawass will find clues in there to kind of like explain certain things away as well.

[1112] It works on both sides.

[1113] You're totally right.

[1114] I absolutely agree, especially when Mr. Hawass, he's famous for it.

[1115] He's funny.

[1116] Isn't he in trouble?

[1117] Isn't he going to go to jail?

[1118] He cannot leave the country.

[1119] What happened?

[1120] What did he do wrong?

[1121] Some corruption shit?

[1122] Yes, basically, certain...

[1123] money disappeared in who would have thought that guy was crooked most people are like what god what dorks are these guys they do they're doing they're gossiping about egyptologists certain guys bitchy egyptologists um I I thought that what he did was a very brilliant take on mistakes and he was very time consuming and tedious and I thought it was very well done and I can't wait to talk to him about it but my problem is that there's still a lot of craziness to that stuff saying that you know they had done and moved larger stones before and that somehow or another because of it was a part of a foundation wall wasn't that when it was that it wasn't so impressive like like the ballback like that that's kind of crazy like there was a lot of where you're trying to find some reason why it's not fantastic and it's obviously fantastic yeah and I mean you know what I And this is probably a sign of our times, but ancient aliens is a TV show.

[1124] It tries to put forward into the public mind, is this possible?

[1125] Here's a bit of graphic information for you.

[1126] And by default, the ancient aliens, the series, is not identified with whether or not we have been visited in the past.

[1127] I mean, the best evidence was put forward by the likes of Carl Sagan and Joseph Shovsky in late 1970.

[1128] he's Carl Sagan, who was very much a skeptic.

[1129] He didn't believe in anything like crop circles and all that stuff.

[1130] And he basically said, you know, of paleo contact, whether we have been visited in the past of not or not, the best example is Awanus, this creature which comes out of the sea and teaches man the arts of civilization and various other things.

[1131] One has disappeared.

[1132] Another creature came up basically took off where, you know, began to instruct the people.

[1133] What is this from?

[1134] This is from Babylonia.

[1135] It is actually, it's a Babylonian rendering of a Sumerian mythology as well.

[1136] So basically the Babylonians were repeating what they got from the Sumerians.

[1137] And basically they were saying that from the Persian Gulf thousands of years ago, it's not too clear when precisely, this creature came, he came out of the sea, he took off his kind of like fishy outside and underneath was a human hat, and he began to instruct our ancestors on the arts of architect, architecture, mathematics and art and all of these sciences.

[1138] Maybe that's a good way for aliens to go in the water first and pop out, hey, we were here all along.

[1139] That's better than coming from the sky.

[1140] You're like, I was right behind this tree.

[1141] Instead of I came here from another fucking galaxy.

[1142] I'm a mermaid.

[1143] But I mean, you know, in the eyes of Carl Sagan, and many people who are looking into this from a scientific point of view, this is kind of like amongst the best evidence that we might have potentially been visited by ancient aliens.

[1144] Chris White doesn't even mention it and it's kind of like okay you should really try to negate this if you want to pretend that you have completely destroyed the ancient alien theory you know you can try and attack the ancient aliens the series but as long as you don't go for the best evidence like the honor story and you do it on a scientific level you kind of like you know you argue why Carl Sagan thought this was interesting while other scientists thought this was interesting, then really you can make a documentary and pretend that you have completely destroyed the possibility that we were ever visited in the past by ancient aliens, but you haven't.

[1145] You can just do that at the end of your documentary.

[1146] And you're no better or worse than the narrator on ancient alien series who says, could we have been visited by aliens in the past?

[1147] It's on the same level.

[1148] I see what you're saying.

[1149] He's not considering all the evidence.

[1150] He's trying to prove a point.

[1151] and there is a possibility no matter how many mistakes you guys make there's still a possibility that the human race has been visited and in fact maybe even engineered by advanced life forms it's absolutely a possibility well you know when it comes to such things as astrobiology it's one of my great passions in the ancient alien question I write about it and I thought when I was going to write that chapter it was going to be boring It was going to be, at some point in the past, there were some scientists who thought that life came from elsewhere in the universe riding on a comet or a meteorite, and then it crashed here, and then all of a sudden we had life on planet Earth.

[1152] And it's so different.

[1153] What we have right now are astrobiologists who are working for NASA, who are saying that the building blocks of life are created spontaneously in interstellar space, that as a result, life like us is potentially everywhere in the universe.

[1154] You know, they have been saying that viruses are more than likely, some of them, more than likely are coming from outer space as well.

[1155] Did you see that one, I think it was from Harvard, the astronomer that said that it's very unlikely that we'll ever find life.

[1156] And there is probably no life anywhere but Earth because we've looked at 500 planets and we have found no life.

[1157] And I looked at that and I said, no, no, no, no. You've looked at 501 planets, and one out of 500 has life.

[1158] What did Edison say, I have found 200 ways of not making light pop.

[1159] I mean, I just find that fascinating that someone would be so arrogant when life does exist on this one.

[1160] That's so dumb.

[1161] Just because you looked at 500 other planets, if it's one out of 1 ,000, that's pretty amazing when you consider the hundreds of billions of stars just in this galaxy alone.

[1162] I don't know who you're referring to, but like, you know, if it's, if he was the traditional satire guy who looks with radio astronomy kind of stuff.

[1163] NASA is abandoning that.

[1164] They realize you're looking for a needle in a haystack.

[1165] It's built on so many assumptions, you know, the bandwidth where they would be able to broadcast this.

[1166] NASA has basically abandoned this.

[1167] They're looking at astrobiology.

[1168] And they're basically saying that, you know, there is now more than substantial evidence that, indeed, life didn't originate on this planet, but that it arose somewhere else in the universe.

[1169] and that it came here, this theory of panspermy, which Francis Crick, who was the guy who identified the structure, the double helix of DNA, he always said it didn't originate here, that it came from somewhere else.

[1170] And NASA, guess what?

[1171] The greatest astrobiologists in the world can't get published in peer -reviewed journals because the peer -reviewed journals are still so adamant that life originated on planet Earth.

[1172] So NASA is doing signs by press release.

[1173] They do the findings, they get them peer -reviewed, amongst their peers.

[1174] They know they can't get published, so they publish them on the Internet, and everybody can consult them on the Internet.

[1175] And the guys who do the peer -reviewed journals, they're now saying that NASA is involved in a conspiracy to convince the world that life exists elsewhere in the universe as well.

[1176] It's kind of like, okay.

[1177] It seems like shades of what Galileo had to go through.

[1178] Just a more advanced form of arrogance, because we have more information now to back up our claims.

[1179] and we can make these big, grandiose, you know, statements like, well, we've examined 500 planets.

[1180] We're pretty sure we're alone.

[1181] Like, that is so silly.

[1182] If you think of how many fucking planets there are there, this guy has examined 500 of them.

[1183] They think they got it fixed.

[1184] You better get back to work, bitch.

[1185] You know, you better go do your homework because that's bananas.

[1186] It's so silly that you could even say that.

[1187] Like the numbers, again, it's like we talked about how 7 ,000 years is impossible for people to think about.

[1188] Well, that ain't shit compared to the number of.

[1189] stars just in this galaxy when you start getting into the the the just a phrase hundreds of billions and then think about each one may have who knows how many goddamn planets yeah it's it's it's it's it's too crazy it's it's too hard for people to so when a guy comes out and says something like that i'm like are you just trying to get attention like what do you think of when you see a press release like that um yeah i i do see an awful lot of of kind of like headline grabbing type of people who try to, and specifically, you know, scientist has become about this scramble for money.

[1190] We need to be in on it.

[1191] And on a completely different level, like, you know, this was very much in evidence with Jesus' wife controversy, which hit, like, you know, like somebody found this scrap of material, which basically only could ever prove that in the 3rd century AD, there were people who believed that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene.

[1192] and all of a sudden you have this enormous stampede of scientists saying no this can't be true I have found this let me do research and they're basically kind of saying give me money and for the rest of five years I will debate endlessly about this and I will create this controversy about that and it just escalates like you know because it's Jesus and we know Jesus is more than controversial the likes of National Geographic actually pulled the initial documentary which wasn't done by some kind of a crazy person.

[1193] It was a Harvard professor who basically came up with this but it is like she basically it's in private possession she had made this deal with the guy that she would take all the slack she had done the analysis this was old but she wasn't going to reveal who the owner was fine is that so controversial but then all of a sudden you have scientists saying no we need to know who the owner is because if we don't know who the owner is we're going to completely I don't believe anything you're saying and it's like oh come on is this kindergarten or is this academics and unfortunately it's kindergarten it's really fascinating that at the highest levels of intelligence the highest levels of knowledge the place where you're actually supposed to go to get that stuff that things are withheld just on the basis of ego just completely on the basis there's things that are not considered because people don't want to look ridiculous and there's certain subjects that you're not even allowed to study or consider because they can be bad for your career.

[1194] They can ruin your career.

[1195] Just even study them.

[1196] Like, you have to be a very brave person to admit to having a fascination with psychedelic drugs if you're a scientist.

[1197] Yeah.

[1198] You know, if you're an archaeologist and you suggest the possibility, just the possibility, that there may very well have been ancient civilizations that we're unaware of, that we have an, that immediately throws you into a certain, fringe category, right?

[1199] Oh, I mean, I was around John Mack, Harvard Professor of Psychiatry.

[1200] He created the Psychiatric Department at Harvard University, and in 1995, he became involved with the entire year of abduction thing.

[1201] And what he was saying was he had looked at these people, and these people were reporting something which, in his which coincided with what other people were describing as when they saw a car driving through a red light, and they were describing it.

[1202] He said, these people are not making this up, these people are describing it as if this has reality to them.

[1203] This is something which they relate as a real event to me. That's all.

[1204] He wasn't saying it was real.

[1205] He was basically saying everybody who I've interviewed is relating it to me in wording which suggests to me that it is something which has happened to them.

[1206] He went a little further than that in his second book.

[1207] In his second book, I read both of his books, in his second book he was basically relaying the message that these aliens had told these people about what you know what the consequences of human destruction and what we're doing to the planet it's it's all pretty fascinating stuff but what always killed me about the john mac stuff is that everything happens at night all these people are abducted at night we know during the night time the brain releases endogenous bursts of dimethylptomy which is an incredibly powerful hallucinogenic drug like why don't we get these people who have had these alien abduction experiences and introduce them to intravenous dimethyltryptamine and see if it recreates the same thing because if it does then you know what you got going on you know that you have doesn't mean it's not a real event and exactly that's the point he was making well we have this idea that something is only real if you can pick it up and weigh it yeah you know if you have this and you can you can saw it in half well then it's real but there's it's very possible that there's chemical doorways that exist and there something goes through them something returns or the resonance in which you interface with the universe changes because the introduction to the of these alkaloids and these chemicals into into the mind like the resonance of the universe changes you tune into something that doesn't exist or it doesn't exist without it and that that's something that until we consider that possibility and still we really wrap our heads around what exactly is going on there we're ignoring a pretty profound experience.

[1208] We're not even using it as a part of the equation.

[1209] We're not even throwing one of the most profound and life -altering things that can happen to a person, a psychedelic experience, a real truly profound.

[1210] And we're not even introducing it into the conversation.

[1211] We're pretending it doesn't exist because we don't want to look silly.

[1212] It's a hallucination.

[1213] It's something which your mind makes up and therefore we can ridicule it and it's an important.

[1214] And, you know, kind of like, and there are people absolutely out there who are absolutely convinced it's not real.

[1215] Sure.

[1216] Well, again, you know, Richard Dawkins.

[1217] Dawkins has had no psychedelic experiences and talked about how you maybe would consider doing LSD in a clinical setting.

[1218] Like, oh, you're, this is like talking to a child.

[1219] Like, you're scared.

[1220] You need to, you need to go do mushrooms fish.

[1221] You need a, if Richard Dawkins went and did an ayahuaski ceremony or Richard Dawkins went and smoked DMT, he would come back with a completely different view on this whole fucking thing.

[1222] A brilliant mind, an incredible academic, a guy who's just so good at busting through the bullshit of religion, that, you know, especially in the waning years of his existence on this plane, like, he was really cheating his consciousness of not just crossing over at least once just to say, wow, that's available?

[1223] How did I not know that was available?

[1224] but also like the the attitude of like you know like I don't need to do that exactly so silly I know it's it's like you know it doesn't exist so I don't need to do it it's like okay just say you haven't done it that's fine yeah well they have to justify it because then people will bring it up it's like you know someone who's never seen combat before and you say well you don't know about war unless you're seen combat well I don't need I don't need to see it I know what's going on the fuck you do how could you possibly understand what happens to a person and the grips of war if you haven't been there it's pure speculation you don't know you know there's there's many many things in this life that are like that i think very few are as profound as the psychedelic experience as far as the how alien it is to normal everyday consciousness and i think that has to be considered when you stop and think about the idea of alien inter interjection alien altering of our world the idea of the psychedelic experience being a gateway to some other form of consciousness or some other form of intelligence that has to be considered the idea the i the i let me tell you something that happened to me one after one of my first dmt experiences i stopped caring about ufos completely stopped caring as did terence mccana i remember him in nineteen five yeah he was at a ufo conference and you kind of like it went down the line and you had but hopkins there and jacques fulet and they were like physically first and then it came to him and said like I can tell you I mean I can't do his accent it was very specific he said I can tell you like you know I have spoken to these people yeah you don't have to like go around like wondering whether or not UFOs are possible because something is possible that's a billion times crazy than that the way I always described DMT is mushrooms times a million plus aliens like really is like that so for someone to you know to interest me with some flying space disc, I'd be like, why don't they just come down here and talk like the DMT guys do?

[1225] Because the DMT experience brings you into a completely different dimension.

[1226] I just completely got bored with the idea of flying saucers.

[1227] You know, like, ooh, look, it's a little light.

[1228] It's spinning around a circle.

[1229] Really?

[1230] Is that what that is?

[1231] You know, who knows what the fuck that is?

[1232] Who cares?

[1233] It's not even doing anything.

[1234] If there's aliens and they come here and they just fucking spin around the sky and then go, home you know it could be like this could be like earth is like the high school uh parking lot like remember when your kids and there's dudes who already graduated and they come back and do donuts in the parking lot did you uh did you didn't you got an english accent right what is it was it australian what is your accent uh i'm originally from belgium and i speak three languages and i sound like a foreigner and all of them so oh that's what it is i've lived in england for about 10 years worked in england for about 10 years and i've been partly european partly in los angeles for the last four years.

[1235] When in American high schools there's this phenomenon where this leaving the nest thing or a lot of guys they graduate but they still come back to hang out they thought of as losers and they usually have cool cars because now they're work so they come back and they would do like donuts in the parking lot.

[1236] So maybe that's what the aliens are doing they're just coming back to show off.

[1237] Joyriding.

[1238] Yeah, only the douchebag aliens come back.

[1239] Do you buy into any...

[1240] But that's why there's a conspiracy because we're covering those up.

[1241] Exactly.

[1242] Do you buy into any of the stuff when you know you you hear about UFOs interfering with like launch commands on missiles and the UFOs like cutting power over military bases do you buy into any of that stuff have you ever seen anything that's compelling well I know somebody has written a book about it I read the book and you know when you take UFOs as an unidentified flying object then it is possible because it doesn't mean it's not earthly yeah exactly and if I was a human power, I would be interested in atomic missiles, I think, more so than if I was an alien power.

[1243] I mean, you know, if I was an alien, okay, I mean, making up science fiction scenarios here, either they say, okay, they can blow them to smithereens, let's do it, or, well, we have this thing whereby we can pick up this nuclear device anyway in mid -flight and then take it out of there.

[1244] But when people tell me weird things happened on a military facility, involving top secret things, and there's a UFO cited, then to me that UFO is probably of terrestrial origins.

[1245] And there is probably a very good reason why, whoever power it is, you know, we'll probably blame the Russians first, but it doesn't necessarily have to beat them.

[1246] You know, kind of like there's a good reason why they're going to keep this secret, and they probably want to pretend.

[1247] And I think to large extent, you know, the American government has done active promotion of, hey we are covering up certain things you know well that whole area 51 thing put a lot of questions into people's minds because they denied its existence until what year was it 94 or something like that where they want to expand its boundaries yeah and then an independence day like you know like they make a big thing about area 51 and that at the end you see like with the active participation and help of the departments of of the fence and you kind of think like and you're telling me they didn't read the script yeah you're telling me that they're okay with pretending there's a fucking flying saucer tucked away back there what do you believe what do you think about Robert Lazar do you know his story yeah I mean you know I again I think he might have seen something which people told him was alien and I think that's a form of protection like you know if I tell you here as a light you know it's alien technology you're not going to say oh Phillips oh that must be a cover up thing kind of like you know people there are known instances and I think it was Bill Moore who found some stuff there in 1953 or 52 all of a sudden America was okay again I think with Hungary and there was a very important relic across of St. Stephen or something like that which was somewhere displaced out of the Second World War and the American government was going to give it back but it was so secretive that nobody knew on this flight what it was and the official cargo of what was being transported was described as a UFO, basically a crashed saucer, which was being transported.

[1248] They didn't want the people on board to know what it was.

[1249] They said it was a crashed saucer.

[1250] It wasn't.

[1251] It was a relic of, you know, some saint, which was being transported back to Hungary.

[1252] So they just freak people out just to put a stupid story out there for disinformation?

[1253] Yeah.

[1254] And, you know, if you can then convince these soldiers that there's a big cover -up, you're going to probably die if you say, that you know when you're going to speak out about crashed sorcerers these guys are going to be kept quiet yeah the Robert Lazar story I'm sorry the Robert Lazar story was so compelling because he's so fucking intelligent you know and he doesn't sound like a liar when he starts talking about the base and talking about back at reverse engineering the aircraft and you know and how they would take them out for test flights or they couldn't exactly figure out how to work them that's fascinating shit so it is possible that it was Russian or something and then that Robert Lazar it was told that it was an alien just because they did want to admit that the Russians had figured out some fucking incredible shit that we hadn't.

[1255] I mean, you know, I agree with you on Lazar.

[1256] I don't think he made this all up.

[1257] He was told something.

[1258] The government might have told him the truth, but I think on balance, the government told him a lie.

[1259] Hmm.

[1260] Look at that, Robert Lazare.

[1261] You just got debunked by Philip Copens.

[1262] Well, I actually think I support him because most people just say he's a liar.

[1263] Yeah, that is.

[1264] That's true.

[1265] You are supporting him in sort of a way, you're just letting him, you're giving him an out, like you didn't know.

[1266] That is possible.

[1267] Yeah, when you see these things like stealth bombers and stuff that we know the government did design, that actually look like aliens, look like some UFO.

[1268] And as you point out, he's an intelligent guy, you know, he came to these conclusions, he felt that this was alien, and I'm more than willing to give him the benefit of that.

[1269] I'm just saying on balance, our government lies when it tells you, this is something alien.

[1270] When they tell you that.

[1271] Here's the point.

[1272] If it's alien, they would probably tell the guys involved that it was terrestrial.

[1273] That's a very good point.

[1274] That's a very good point.

[1275] Why would they tell this four -eyed motherfucker fucker from the middle of nowhere?

[1276] Albuquerque, New Mexico, wherever he's from.

[1277] Yeah, yeah, yeah, we got an alien.

[1278] I wonder if they did tell him.

[1279] I don't think his story is actually they told him.

[1280] I think his story was that they didn't explain it at all.

[1281] They just told him back engineer it and he did he deduced with his own intelligence that it was uh an alien craft but yeah who knows what the fuck they're making out there right i mean they have this gigantic facility out there or at least they did i think they've moved things now because so many people are aware of it and because of uh google earth i believe they they believe they've moved stuff to utah now that's the new place where they test out crazy shit well i mean again i was talking about that Roswell documentary and there's some very interesting things how and actually skeptics in this case are great I mean there are some great skeptics in the sense that they stick with it they've done research for 20 years and that's great you know I'm the skeptics I hate are these 24 hit and run guys they see something they write something they've seen it on Google but like you know like the likes of Carl Flok when it comes to Roswell he's got great material in there it can be interpreted in two ways but he's got great material.

[1282] And some of the stuff which he's also kind of like confirmed is that you had this tiny cabal of like Jesse Marcel, the base commander which was called Blanchard.

[1283] They somehow knew the likes of Barry Goldwater and when Goldwater starts talking about hey, can I see what's in Hanger 18 at Wright Patterson?

[1284] It's a big scam.

[1285] It's a scam of these guys who are absolutely convinced that there is alien material being covered up in Wright -Patterson, who are trying to get it on the record, and who are trying to push the government, basically, into kind of like coming up with an answer, and the answer is, like, fuck off, you're not allowed to say this.

[1286] You know, like, Goldwater was basically told he was not allowed to ask such questions.

[1287] The government was never going to say anything of the kind.

[1288] The Hanger 18 didn't exist.

[1289] And it's like, okay, that's interesting.

[1290] These people were working behind the scenes, and, like, the base commander spoke to Goldwater was trying to push something out there.

[1291] And again, it's not as such evidence of the fact that something extraterrestrial landed in Roswell, but that there were more things happening behind the scenes than quite often are being credited for.

[1292] There's a clear evidence of conspiracy at Roswell, and one of the big pieces of evidence is the fact that they flew the wreckage out to Wright -Patterson Air Force Base in two separate planes because they were worried if one of them crashed.

[1293] They wanted to make sure that they could not lose this.

[1294] The amount of trucks.

[1295] They separated this stuff, yeah.

[1296] And they said it's really light material, so it wasn't done for weight considerations.

[1297] No. Because they claim that it was material from a weather balloon, which is nothing.

[1298] They could throw that in the back of a plane, no problem.

[1299] And I mean, kind of like it was hanging out with Jesse Marcel and having him talk about his grandfather.

[1300] His grandfather was the chief of intelligence for Roswell.

[1301] Roswell Air Force Base, at that moment in time, was the only airfield in the world where it was constantly an atomic bomb being sent in the sky.

[1302] America wanted to have an atomic presence in the sky as a result of that B -52 or whatever kind of machinery went and landed at Roswell constantly.

[1303] There was always one in the sky.

[1304] He knew that.

[1305] He had briefed people on atomic missions of like dropping nuclear bombs.

[1306] At one point he was one of five people in the world who knew where a certain bomb was going to be dropped.

[1307] He was declared an accident.

[1308] national hero.

[1309] He was, you know, when he went into Fort Worth and was going to make that announcement, he was absolutely convinced that he was going to tell the world about the existence of extraterrestrial beings.

[1310] And when you see this story through his family, you see that afterwards he apparently trampled on his medals.

[1311] He hated what the American government had him do.

[1312] He basically killed thousands of people by, you know, sentencing them to death by briefing this officer where to drop an atomic bomb.

[1313] And at the same level, he was absolutely convinced that what happened in Roswell was extraterrestrial and that he somehow had to say on air live that he was an idiot.

[1314] And he hated what the American government made him do.

[1315] He trampled on it.

[1316] He got out of the government and basically began to repair televisions and radios to occupy his mind and do something else.

[1317] He, you know, but in 1940s, He was a guy at the top briefed kind of level.

[1318] Whatever he saw shook his mind.

[1319] It wasn't a weather balloon.

[1320] It's a fascinating thing to me that it all occurred.

[1321] The majority of these UFO and even coined the term flying saucer, it all occurred once we started fucking around with nuclear power.

[1322] When we started fucking around with nuclear bombs, that's when they seemed to start arriving.

[1323] That is really fascinating to me. And if it really did exist, then it was just some sort of.

[1324] sort of an isolated incense where they came down said all right listen you crazy pink monkeys you can't do that you can't just go fucking blowing things out with nuclear by you're going to ruin your whole planet all right stop man that would be interesting to know well and i mean you know again complete speculation yeah of course yeah our ancestors always say that the gods were there to help us that they're somehow these helpers these these kind of like they were trying to do it all by ourselves but if we run into trouble all of a sudden they're kind of go like okay well have you looked at this problem it's like a parent looking at his child and kind of like knowing that 4 plus 4 equals 8 but after a while you kind of go like okay count them on your hands and kind of like you know you get to 8 like that and if this is the case if then if we can somehow self -destruct completely more than likely to idiocy or computer failure of pushing you know whatever buttons then you might actually say okay they would step in there they would stop this from happening that's a constant theme with people right that somehow know that the alien overlords are going to step and stop us at the brink of disaster yeah and you know there is no evidence for it whatsoever but there is logic to it if we do if we are monitored if we have if we are the children and there is an alien intelligence who's slightly brighter than us who means well then they're going to out for us it's like so how do you explain world star hip hop dot com well how are they laying that happen it's probably innocent in the larger scheme of things in the larger scheme of things in the great scheme of genetics moving forward to our ultimate destiny of being or they just have chocolate fever could be philip copens listen man this book i can't wait to read it uh i just got it today or otherwise i would have already read it because this is one of my all -time favorite subjects and uh this is a fucking awesome podcast thank you very very much and if people want to uh if the book is called the lost civilization enigma i'm sure it's available like amazon dot com it's available everywhere where books are sold and uh is there an ebook version of it because i just got one of those barns and noble nooks there is an ebook version there's even an audio book version for people who don't want to read but listen and they can hear your sultry voice they can't hear my what not you who reads it an actual motherfucker that's bullshit dude why don't you release your own and just fucking put it out as a torrent and ruin the market yeah yeah an easter egg version of you yeah how can how can you got a great voice man why didn't they let you do it i know it's the way these things work publishing companies is their idea some cunty stupid -ass actor saying a bunch of shit he doesn't even know what he's talking about god damn it's just reading your work they wouldn't let you do it nope we need to talk to those people what is the public don't you don't want to get in trouble don't get in trouble it's a great book it's good they give you a deal i hope you make some money So folks, go out there and buy this shit.

[1325] The Lost Civilization Enigma by Philip Copens.

[1326] And Philip Copens .com, I believe, is the website.

[1327] Absolutely.

[1328] Page.

[1329] I -L -I -P -E -N -S.

[1330] Two P's, ladies and gentlemen, C -O -P -P -E -N -S.

[1331] And you can also find him on Twitter under the same name, Philip Copens.

[1332] So please follow him and pay attention because this is some fascinating stuff.

[1333] Like I said, I can't wait to get into this.

[1334] Thank you very much for a fascinating conversation, my friend.

[1335] If you ever want to come back again, we've been more than happy to...

[1336] We could do this 100 times, I'm sure.

[1337] It will be my pleasure to return.

[1338] Thank you.

[1339] Please do.

[1340] Please do.

[1341] Thanks to Ting for sponsoring our podcast today.

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[1350] new shit but not me son i like the new stuff uh thanks to onit dot com that's o n n i t makers of alpha brain new mood shroom tech sport shroom tec a moon all kinds of other shit too much to name and we even have blend tech blenders and buffalo jerky bitches that's right we got a lot of a lot of grovey stuff so uh go and check that out and if you use the code name rogan you save yourself 10 % off any of those supplements this weekend brian and tom sagurro who folks is one of the best fucking comics in the country right now.

[1351] Tom Sigour is hot.

[1352] If you're a fan of good stand -up comedy, you're going to want to check out this weekend shows.

[1353] If you are in the Ohio area, there is Ohio Columbus on Thursday.

[1354] Is that what it is?

[1355] It's, uh, what is it all?

[1356] Columbus, I mean, sorry, Dayton on Thursday, Cincinnati on Friday, and Columbus on Saturday.

[1357] Uh, if you're in Cincinnati, if you use the coupon code, Red Cross, you can get two for one.

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