#1887 - Maynard James Keenan

[0] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

[1] The Joe Rogan Experience.

[2] Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[3] Do you have a sauna?

[4] Do you do that?

[5] I have a sauna, yeah.

[6] Well, it had, initially it had issues because it was like a, you know, janky -ass actual heater that died and we had to try to get another.

[7] Yeah, we had to order another one.

[8] They'd like, no luck with that company.

[9] So we just like, oh, that company doesn't exist any.

[10] And so had to get a different in there, but it's fine.

[11] We just got done putting a bunch of the oil on it.

[12] It's kind of, because Arizona, the sun just, like, cooks everything.

[13] Cooks the fucking wood, so there's like it was cracking and spaces, so.

[14] The real hardcore folks, they use the wood -fired sauna, old school, like you're cooking pizza.

[15] Yeah, well, they can do that.

[16] Yeah.

[17] I'm not that guy.

[18] Yeah, they sell those.

[19] I'm like, that seems like a lot of work.

[20] Plus, you've got to kill trees.

[21] Yeah, we, you know, so we, you know, we use it quite a bit, actually, when it was running.

[22] But then, like, I was on the road and then harvest, we didn't bother with it until just now we got it back running.

[23] It's so good for you, man. It's so good.

[24] I just got out.

[25] I do it after every workout.

[26] It's, like, religious.

[27] I make sure I get in there right afterwards.

[28] It's the best.

[29] All right.

[30] You're training hard there, fella.

[31] John Donaheher, teaching you finder points of triangles.

[32] That was fun to watch.

[33] Yeah, I mean, it's hard on, as you, I would discuss this before, being on the road is, it's hard to find consistent training.

[34] Consistent training is your gym, that instructor in your city, your drive back and forth to your house, doing two classes a day, maybe if you can.

[35] You know, like that kind of thing, but the road is inconsistent.

[36] So the only consistency I can really rely on is picking a particular subject and going to people.

[37] that I know that know how to do it rather than allowing them to go hey I got this cool thing where you go upside down and stand on your head and do a backflip and like buggy choke don't please I don't I don't I'm 58 please don't tell me what a buggy choke is right now you can't do a buggy choke I might someday but right now I just want to fucking get the triangles right buggy choke's a good thing to learn yeah I want to learn it but like I got it's let me let me learn it when I'm going to spend three weeks on it and focused on it with somebody who understands the details, somebody who also understands the counters.

[38] Because the counters end up being as important as understanding the actual thing.

[39] Somebody caught a buggy choke recently in MMA.

[40] I think it was in Bellator, and the dude picked him up and slammed him.

[41] And he's out.

[42] Yeah, he got fucked up, and then he beat the shit out of him.

[43] I was like, hmm, yeah, that makes sense.

[44] Because it's like you really are committed to that.

[45] You've attached yourself to the person and that they're big and strong and can drop you on a surface.

[46] You just don't have options like you do with a triangle.

[47] You know, like if someone picks you up with a triangle, you drop down to the leg, you let go.

[48] Like when you're in a buggy chair, you're kind of committed, I think.

[49] Maybe I'm wrong.

[50] Maybe I should talk to like the Ritolo.

[51] Yeah, this is it right here.

[52] No, this is not it.

[53] This is a different one.

[54] But people are getting these left and right now.

[55] You know, someone pulled one off in the UFC the other day and people didn't even know what the fuck it was.

[56] I had to kind of explain it.

[57] And I'm like, this is so fascinating that this is a test.

[58] technique that is, you know, for jiu -jitsu, it's been around for like a year or so.

[59] He's out cold.

[60] For jiu -jitsu, it's been around for years, rather.

[61] But for MMA, it's just just starting to be applied.

[62] Right.

[63] But the beautiful thing about, especially that high level of MMA, is that somebody's going to figure out how to how to counter it or prevent it.

[64] And then then it's gone.

[65] Yeah.

[66] I mean, for a while, all of a sudden, people were catching the Vaughn Flu, and then all of a sudden people are like, no, no, I'm going to counter that now.

[67] But then every now and then, somebody catches one.

[68] OSP's the master.

[69] He's the best at it.

[70] He's caught more of them than Von Flu.

[71] Von Flu, I think, invented it.

[72] But OSP, I think, has more than anybody.

[73] He gets it all the time.

[74] It's like, it's an natural instinct when someone takes you down to hang on to that guillotine.

[75] You just want to have some sort of control over him.

[76] And then all of a sudden, that person shifts weight, and they're on top of you sideways.

[77] you're like oh shit then your arm is trapped good night yeah it's a nasty joke there's this jiu jit so beautiful it's so cool watching you guys today like watching donna her like i learned something that position of the knee to the ear like i didn't know that i'm i kind of kind of did it anyway but like watching the like he's so good at pointing out the finer details yeah you know he's just such a master what a fucking interesting person he is There's no John Donaheher's out there.

[78] Like if you said, I want a guy who was a professor of philosophy at Columbia University who's a genius who fell in love with Jiu -Jitsu and is dedicated to it so much so that he walks around with a rash guard every day.

[79] Yeah.

[80] He doesn't even have frankly close.

[81] I was just, you know, I was just kidding myself.

[82] Like, so John, are we going to do ghee or no gay?

[83] Yeah.

[84] I think he abandoned the ghee a long time ago, right?

[85] Yeah.

[86] He's like, no gay.

[87] Yeah.

[88] I mean, you can do, the good thing about doing the ghee is you must be defensively responsible because you can't get out of stuff.

[89] You can't just power out of things.

[90] You know, like there's certain techniques that you just, you know, when you get trapped in them, you really have to mind your P's and Q's when you get out if you have a GEE.

[91] Yeah.

[92] And, you know, I like, I like training both because I like kind of training my mind to not rely on the GEE.

[93] Mm -hmm.

[94] But then when it's, when there's something like a lapel or a. you know, a jacket or a Ghee available, then I've trained how to deal with that piece of fabric.

[95] That's your now tool for you.

[96] Well, I got very fortunate that I learned Ghee from John Jacques Machado, and John Jock Machado only has one hand.

[97] His left hand, he only has a thumb.

[98] So John Jock's game was always overhooks and underhooks and clinch.

[99] And, you know, that's why he was so successful in Abu Dhabi in the early days, because all of his strategy completely applies.

[100] to no gey you know and so i sort of when i was training uh with gee with uh john jock and no ge with eddie bravo i would do the same things i would just have to be more responsible defensively when i train with the gey you just you just can't explode right you know i got back problems i probably shouldn't train as much ghee anyway because guys get a hold of it and then you're you're dealing with lower back tissue do you have back problems what kind of back problems you got i just lower back stuff yeah trying to do all the try to every uh it's just age and beat beat down and traveling you know like on the bus trying to describe i was just trying to describe bus life to your guys out there like you know you're sleeping in kind of a coffin so it's kind of weird you know you can't really sit up because there's a there's something above your head how much time do you spend on the bus well between every gig unless there's a day off so you know we're doing two on three on and you're so you're sleeping on the bus but it's like imagine sleeping and then four people on each corner of your bed every 45 minutes just shaking it fuck that yeah so you're like you're trying to get a solid seven eight hours sleep you end up having to get 11 hours of sleep because three or four of that is you waking up in the middle of the night because you hit bumps bad roads you know so what do you do you have the driver drive you in the middle of the night yeah so after the show you're in the bus and you're going to the next city and you know depending on the depending on the drive if it's you know four hours six hours eight hours nine hours yeah I have friends who do that like Burke Kreischer does that that's his thing he loves tours and buses I'm not into it I don't love it I enjoy performing the songs the travel part is the most difficult part and then you know so you're you're in air -conditioned scenarios so you're getting a little dehydrated.

[101] You're trying to have to hydrate a little bit more than you normally would, and you're having to perform that night.

[102] So training can be difficult on the road.

[103] So try to do whatever I can to get training in.

[104] Yeah, I admire people that just hit gyms, like random gyms, just show up at places when they're on the road.

[105] That's a bold move.

[106] Never know who you're going to train with.

[107] Yeah, no, and that's, and I'm a pussy that way, for sure.

[108] People that I know, I have the mats, they come to me, or if I'm going to a place, it's because I know the person.

[109] Do you weight train at all?

[110] Not much.

[111] I used to a little bit.

[112] It's really good for preventing injuries.

[113] When you're talking about your lower back situation?

[114] I'll show you some stuff, some of the equipment we have out there afterwards.

[115] Is it like kettlebell stuff?

[116] Cattlebell stuff's great, but for the lower back, there's a machine called the reverse hyper that we have out there.

[117] That's phenomenal because it decompresses.

[118] your back and it also strengthens all the muscles around it all right it was invented by louis simmons who's this uh genius that's louis right there rest in peace hello he has left us and gone to the next stage of existence but that machine he developed because um louis was like a world famous power lifter and his um his back got fucked and they told him to get his back fused because it was compressed and so he figured out a way to decompress the spine with active decompression so So that thing, as it swings down, and you'll feel, I'll show it to you afterwards when we go into the gym, that thing decompresses your spine on the down swing, and then on the upswing, it actually strengthens the muscles around the back.

[119] Okay.

[120] Anybody that has the room for it and has like some issues with their lower back, even if you don't have issues, if you don't want to ever have issues, I can't recommend that machine enough.

[121] It's phenomenal for the back.

[122] I will take that advice.

[123] I just feel like when you get to our age, you must weight train.

[124] It's just, I don't think it's an if and or but.

[125] I think it's, you have to do it.

[126] Because otherwise you lose muscle density, you lose bone density, you know.

[127] We're deteriorating there.

[128] Yeah.

[129] Father time wants to fuck us over and grind us into dust.

[130] Yeah.

[131] And, you know, that's, and this is me making excuses, but, you know, there's a lot going on with the winery.

[132] Oh, yeah.

[133] So even just going to do jiu -jitsu during harvest is like nearly impossible because you're doing 10 -hour days.

[134] So I just don't have the time, and you're in the sun.

[135] So by the time your day is done, you're like, I need a beer and I need to go to sleep.

[136] Yeah.

[137] Do you take electrolytes?

[138] Mm -hmm.

[139] What do you take?

[140] I don't know.

[141] Henry Aiken's turned me on to this little packet of stuff that's pretty good.

[142] Do you know the company that makes sense?

[143] No, I don't have.

[144] There's a bunch of good ones.

[145] I like the good IVs much more than.

[146] That's like when we have a couple extra interns that are starting with us in the cellar, because it's Arizona.

[147] It's 100, you know.

[148] It might be 90 degrees, but it's 100 degrees.

[149] 10 on the concrete, just that all that radiant heat off the concrete.

[150] So I make everybody have an electrolyte drink just before we even start.

[151] Here, drink this.

[152] Now we're going to take every 15 minutes stop, drag water, drink water, just because it's a, you know, it's not easy working in the sun like that.

[153] I think you live a fascinating life.

[154] I think that the combination of the things that you do is so unique.

[155] You know, the fact that you run this winery and you're very serious about it.

[156] You make this amazing wine, and yet also you're making this fucking killer music, and you're doing the two of them together.

[157] I also make great pasta.

[158] Yeah, you do make great pasta.

[159] You make great pizza, too, man. That pizza place.

[160] Steve makes the pizza, but yeah.

[161] Well, your restaurant, your Osteria, that's how you say it, right?

[162] Osteria, yes.

[163] That place is awesome.

[164] Yeah, that's good.

[165] Scottsdale.

[166] Yeah.

[167] So I'm on here to talk about.

[168] stuff.

[169] What is everyone want to talk about?

[170] Because I'm doing stuff.

[171] So, you know, full disclosure, I'm here because I'm pimping stuff that I'm selling.

[172] You're pimping.

[173] Yeah, I'm pimping.

[174] Pimping my wares.

[175] So we did this.

[176] You look like you a pimp.

[177] Look at that jacket.

[178] Hey, hey, hey, very pimploid.

[179] Forget about it.

[180] I love that jacket.

[181] So we did, when the, when the whole lockdown shit happened, um, and we were, we couldn't tour.

[182] Um, it sucked because I just, I just released, uh, the tool album.

[183] And then on the heels of that, I released the Pusufor Exocentral Reckoning, and we couldn't tour Exocential Reckoning.

[184] So what we did, we figured out, okay, screw it, everybody's doing these streaming events, paper views.

[185] Right.

[186] So we did one for the release of the album.

[187] And for Pusufor, it just made sense.

[188] That was the thing that for what we do with our characters and some of our sense of humor and the nature of some of the kind of interesting, heady landscape.

[189] that we kind of paint with some of the songs.

[190] It's just that the really interesting format for us and everybody in the band went, this is a great, this is a good thing for us.

[191] So we did another one.

[192] We did Billy D. in the Hall of Feathered Servants, which was all of the Money Shot album and all the Luchador stuff that we shot at the Mayan theater.

[193] We released that one.

[194] So we went ahead and did this still during lockdown before we actually got back on the road.

[195] We did Conditions of My Parole, the whole album called Parole Violator.

[196] So it's a bunch of stuff that's got Billy D and Major Dush and a bunch of the characters, Hildy and everything, along with everything from conditions by parole.

[197] And we did a bunch of the Vias for Vagina era songs, reworked them completely and shot that all in the Sunset Sound studio in Hollywood.

[198] There's come some bits in that one as well.

[199] But those are two paper reviews that are coming out this coming weekend, Halloween weekend.

[200] And do you do these pay -per -views off your website?

[201] Well, we're going to, yeah, the pushertTV .com is where they're going to live for now as a temporary thing.

[202] Eventually we'll release them on Blu -ray and through iTunes and all that stuff.

[203] There it is.

[204] Double feature.

[205] Oh, yeah.

[206] Yeah, so it's just such a fun, when I figured out, when I figured out what it was and how we can do it and how we were like duct to water with it, which is all of us are really good with just the concepts, putting it all together.

[207] Matt Mitchell's an incredible, not only just a producer for the record and all engineer, but also his approach to figuring out how to put all these things together.

[208] And our team, his girlfriend, Elisa.

[209] You live in a fun life, dude.

[210] Oh, yeah.

[211] I like what you doing.

[212] Yeah, so it's just, it's, I don't know, we just kind of went, it resonates with us, this approach of doing this thing.

[213] Like, the idea of like doing a, like, a series.

[214] Plus Super Series.

[215] That doesn't really, I think, full concert with all the cool stuff in it.

[216] Are you bandied about doing a series?

[217] Have you thought about it?

[218] Yeah, but I think, you know, I'm a friend with Mark Brooks who used to be a part of metal ocolyps and conversations I'd had with him and various other people that have been involved in those things.

[219] They're like, as soon as you go down that path as somebody like Adult Swam or Comedy Central and other things, they just own that thing now.

[220] So imagine like me getting in the wrong contract and now all these characters that I've developed, can't even take these on the road now because some other douchebag.

[221] Oh, you can't do that.

[222] No, no, no, no, no. What about doing it independently?

[223] What about doing a series, you know, doing it yourself?

[224] Well, I think, I think my attention span, I think having, being the full hour, hour and change thing, that makes sense.

[225] Doing, like, the small episodes and having to build in all those stories for an entire season and have somebody expect following through with the next season.

[226] I don't think that I could I don't think I could do that.

[227] Do you have to kind of manage, you have so many interests.

[228] You kind of have to manage your time wisely, don't you?

[229] Mm -hmm.

[230] Because the vineyard, the winery, requires so much focus and so much attention, as does the creation of the music.

[231] And I couldn't do, with the winery, the success of the winery, I couldn't do it without people like, you know, my wife and Tim White and Calvin and the various people that are involved, Aaron Weiss, in kind of handling their job.

[232] the delegation of what you guys do.

[233] I have to be there to make the decisions when it comes to the winemaking.

[234] I'm on the forklift.

[235] I'm the one there deciding what's going to go and what tank because everything ends up making, it changes the outcome of what's happening.

[236] And that's just the approaches of when we're picking the grapes, what grapes are we planting.

[237] All those things are come back to me, but the follow -through, if I didn't have Jen and Tim and Calvin and Aaron and all my vineyard managers, Chris and Jesse.

[238] If I didn't have those people in place, I couldn't do it at all, at all.

[239] So it's not just a matter of me organizing my time.

[240] It's also about me delegating to people that I can trust to make the decision beyond the initial framework that I've set in place.

[241] Now, when you make wine and you grow these grapes, the grapes vary seasonally.

[242] they vary, does the flavor vary dependent upon the weather conditions and what you do and don't do to the soil?

[243] Like, does that mature or change over time?

[244] Yeah, and, you know, and generally speaking, you're trying to pick a location that the soil itself is going to express something in this way for a very, you know, forever.

[245] That's going to be what that site does.

[246] You're not going to...

[247] And what's the variables when it comes to the soil?

[248] Well, this is a word called terroir.

[249] Terwar?

[250] Yeah, and it's everything.

[251] Everything, every completely untrackable thing that you could think of in terms of the levels of moisture, when that moisture hits that soil, how deep does that moisture go in, the content, the geology of the soil, the weather patterns in that area and how they shift year to year, what grape, what actual clone did you plant in that spot and how that clone is going to react differently to all of those infinite variables of just the soil.

[252] never mind the infinite variables of the weather and then when you choose to pick how you choose to prune how many clusters you decide to set on that particular vine how you decide to train that vine is going to be a unilateral is it going to be bilateral is it going to be just a bush pruned all these different variables about how you're going to do that farming that affects the outcome in general though if there's a particular region that does well with a particular grape, like Oregon with Pinot Noir.

[253] There might be various ways that they're pruning and adjusting how they're training and growing that fruit, but it's generally speaking, it's going to be Pinot from Oregon.

[254] It's going to have a particular profile across that state.

[255] Variations from region to region from site to site, from producer to producer, but in general, it should have a signature that suggests It's Oregon Pino, allegedly.

[256] Allegedly.

[257] Do you follow, like, other types of, do you follow, like, cigar growing or coffee growing or all these other different things that vary so much on the soil and things along those lines?

[258] Coffee a little bit.

[259] We just picked up a, well, it's not here yet.

[260] Do you want some?

[261] Have some of this?

[262] No, I'm good.

[263] I'm good.

[264] This is good stuff.

[265] I've had two today, so I'm going to yammer a little bit.

[266] I like Yammer.

[267] Hey, Yammer.

[268] That's what we do.

[269] I just picked up, it's not here yet, we picked up a nice modern roaster.

[270] So, because once I move the Osteria that's in Cottonwood up to the new Hill project, that building in Cottonwood will become a coffee, a roaster and breakfast brunch place.

[271] So we're actually pursuing relationships with beans and, you know, importers of coffee beans.

[272] So when you do that, like, I'm good friends with Evan Hafer from Black Rival Coffee, and he'll travel all over the world.

[273] Yeah.

[274] And try out different beans and try out different things.

[275] And that's what this stuff is right here.

[276] Yeah, I've gotten really into it for the last year.

[277] Yeah.

[278] Well, then I got a, yeah, I got a, sorry, brother.

[279] I didn't know it was yours, brother.

[280] I'm sorry.

[281] Yeah, no, he's, cheers, sir.

[282] Cheers.

[283] It's good to see you.

[284] Yeah.

[285] Evan makes some fucking phenomenal style.

[286] Oh, yeah.

[287] Yeah.

[288] Yeah.

[289] So, you know, so I have my, you know, Todd Fox is basically my, my go -to guy.

[290] He actually has, he has that eye of the tiger on those kind of things.

[291] And he'll point out things, because I'm just, dude, I'm, I'm living and I'm going.

[292] And he'll go, check out the difference between these Colombian beans and these Brazilian beans.

[293] And I'll go, okay, he'll be the one that kind of slows me down to focus on, check it out.

[294] You're like, you know what, you're right?

[295] Like, then he'll put stuff, you know, randomly, we'll have some stuff.

[296] He goes, what do you think of that one?

[297] And I really like that.

[298] He goes, those are the Brazilian beans.

[299] So he's starting to help me kind of identify what it is that I like in a coffee, in an approach.

[300] Because I don't, like a band, I don't have to sound like Pink Floyd or Led Zeppelin.

[301] I just have to sound like me and express the way I'm going to express.

[302] So I don't need to be able to make every kind of coffee from every part of the world.

[303] I just need to figure out the ones that I like because I'm kind of, in a way, I'm making it for me, but I'm also selling it.

[304] But I'm not selling it to everybody.

[305] I'm selling it to the people that are going to like it and they're going to come to my place because that's unique.

[306] I had a guy on the podcast years back.

[307] Peter Giuliano, is that his name?

[308] He's like a legitimate coffee nerd.

[309] And we went down like a three -hour rabbit hole of coffee where explained to me all the beans initially came from Ethiopia and how their flavors changed as they moved them to South America and growing in Colombia.

[310] That's an expression of terroir.

[311] It's just, it changes clone to weather, to soil, to grower, to roaster.

[312] I mean, there's so many rabbit holes you can go down with that kind of stuff.

[313] Yeah, like, you know, your average large commercial facilities that have a consistent coffee that's not great.

[314] It's usually over -roasted or they overheat it when they do the, because they, because they're just trying to cover up flaws.

[315] Right.

[316] Well, it's just like when people talk about coffee and they talk about commercial places, most of the people are buying stuff that's just, they're not really buying coffee.

[317] They're buying sugar water.

[318] Right.

[319] It's got caffeine in it.

[320] I went to do an article and a training session out at Gunsite in outside of Pauldin, Arizona.

[321] It's an old school training facility.

[322] And I went there, you know, early morning we were going to do this whole gun range thing and uh this guy named charlie sitting at the table he goes you want some coffee i'm like sure he goes cream and sugar i normally don't but like it's not like that's what yeah yeah sure he goes i asked if you wanted coffee not pudding like i fucking clothes lined me first out of the box fuck you um but i fell for it yeah i only go black now it's been like a couple of years now i only drink black coffee.

[323] I do a little bit of cream and I think and I've and I'm I've been pretty consistent with that lately because because I'm now I'm focusing on what beans I like and for me I know it's going to change once I once I remove the cream but that's the lens that I see the coffee through is I have to have the cream in there because that's how I'm going to drink it.

[324] So I'm trying to figure out what ones I like and with that lens.

[325] I know that if I remove that that lens it's probably going to change my perception of what coffees I like.

[326] It's funny, the cream debate, whether or not you should put cream and coffee.

[327] It's an interesting thing because...

[328] I think there's far bigger issues in the world to discuss.

[329] There definitely are.

[330] There definitely are, but it's just such a funny snob thing.

[331] Leave my cream alone, man. Listen, I like it.

[332] I like cream in a kona.

[333] A kona coffee?

[334] Yeah.

[335] I like a little cream in there, but generally I just drink it black now.

[336] Yeah, I'm planning trips to Hawaii because I want to establish some relationships.

[337] relationships with some Maui growers so that I can actually make that be part of what I'm doing in Arizona, but also because I get to go train with Luis.

[338] Oh, okay, yeah.

[339] Yeah.

[340] Luis was my first instructor ever.

[341] He taught me my first private lesson.

[342] Really?

[343] Yeah.

[344] He had Hickson's.

[345] Okay.

[346] Yeah.

[347] On Pico.

[348] Yeah, in 1996.

[349] Yep.

[350] I must have just missed you.

[351] Yeah.

[352] Well, I only went there a couple times, and then I found Carlson Gracies, and I was so dumb.

[353] I didn't know.

[354] I'm like, oh, this is a different.

[355] place but it's the same name must be the same thing and i caught carlson graces right when vitor when they were still calling him victor right and he had just competed uh against uh john hess in hawaii that was his debut he was like 19 years old and then he was about to make his ufc debut Yeah, I remember sitting behind Vitor one row behind him when Silva broke his leg.

[356] Oh, wow.

[357] But it's like, but here's Vitor's head, and I'm like having to figure out how to see around his fucking brick.

[358] Oh, the head is huge.

[359] Well, when he got up to like 240 pounds when he fought Randy Cotor, it was preposterous.

[360] No, he was an enormous man. Yes.

[361] But those days, like those early days of the UFC were so interesting because, like, there's nothing like MMA in that regard or Jiu -Jitsu where you can go back just 25 years and you go and look at the difference between the art form then and what it is now.

[362] It's just evolved and leaps and bounds.

[363] It's evolved, but there's also, yeah, there's some, you know, we can go on for hours about it.

[364] But when I first started at Pico, it was, you could tell that there was a, you know, there was a, there was a club within the club, and I was never going to have access to that information.

[365] Oh, back then it was, yeah.

[366] Back then it was really weird.

[367] And you're not allowed to go to somebody else's gym.

[368] So I'm traveling and I'm like, I couldn't train with anybody.

[369] I had to, like, I had to wait until I got back to L .A. to pick it up.

[370] Unless I brought somebody with me on the road to train some techniques, I had no idea what they.

[371] the hell we were doing, right?

[372] Yeah, I was very fortunate that Jean -Jacques did not have that attitude.

[373] John Jacques was just, go train, my friend, train, train every way you can.

[374] Yeah.

[375] And he was such a great guy, and he had such a loyal student base that he had zero concerns about people leaving him.

[376] You know, his concern was just that you trained.

[377] Right.

[378] Which is very fortunate.

[379] I didn't have that because it was just such a weird at that moment.

[380] Well, it was a famine mentality in the early days.

[381] There were, well, there was also lawsuits going on because, like, they were, like, the Gracies were suing other people for using the Gracie name, you know, like, Orion, didn't he sue Carlson?

[382] I think they, they sued, he sued someone for using the term Gracie Jujitsu, even though Carlson's last name was Gracie.

[383] I don't know if it was Carlson.

[384] I don't want to misrepresent it, but I know that there was some lawsuits involved because Gracie Jiu -Jitsu itself became.

[385] like a different thing.

[386] They were calling that a different thing than just straight Brazilian jiu -jitsu.

[387] Right.

[388] And now I think it's the opposite.

[389] Like, you know, I'm not sure where it is now, but whatever, I give up.

[390] Well, you mean, that's where it becomes fascinating where a guy like John Donahar kind of like leaps to the top of this thing with just this analytical perspective that's completely free of dogma.

[391] All he cares about is what is the correct way to do things.

[392] It was the most effective.

[393] Right.

[394] in tried and true competition format like this is what we've learned right without any bullshit yeah and that you know that that's been great for me to be on the road training with somebody like like john um like my friends at easton and denver and you know you know yeah dave and dan camreo they all have a slightly different approach to the things some of the guys are going to be a little more self -defense oriented so they're going to be looking to check your position and make sure you can't get hit in the face but I'm a growing ass man and so you go okay I am playing jiu -jitsu I'm not worried about getting it in the face I'm going to train this position to understand how to move my body because that's what it is it's about it's about at the end of the day it is about me taking you offline and advancing but really it's about you and your self -discovery and your ability to for self -control me being able to control my body to do a thing.

[395] And if you don't have that self -awareness of understanding that this isn't just you flopping around like a fish accidentally meeing some dude in the face while you're going for a move, you're not really progressing if you don't understand that it is about your self -control.

[396] So, okay, yeah, that's a self -defense approach to the jiu -jitsu, but I'm also conscious enough to know, okay, I'm going to do this.

[397] I'm going to play around with X -Guard and see what happens because I've never done it.

[398] And I want to see how that, that is how much is that how much is training in jiu -jitsu help just your your mind the way you approach life and what you think about things well it's it's it's like i've mentioned before on your show this is the hardest thing i've ever done in my life this is not does not come easy for me i am the perfect example of a klutzy dude who this is not this is not natural for me to do um and because of that because of that it will forever it was stressful And so you're activating your mind in a stressful situation.

[399] And, you know, you're still getting oxygen in your blood and you're moving and you're opening up things.

[400] But at some point, it became more like chess instead of this, oh, my God, this guy's going to tap me. Well, of course he's going to tap you.

[401] If you just get that in your head, like, I'm going, I might lose today.

[402] I'm probably going to lose today.

[403] Be comfortable in that moment of understanding how to like be conscious.

[404] aware in that moment so that you can recognize the moment before you get to the moment now for next time.

[405] That was a weird shift for me, getting to a position of like, I'm in a compromised position, but I'm going to get to a safe position within the compromise position, take a deep breath, and pay attention to what he does next so that next time I can be ahead of what he does next.

[406] Weird mental thing.

[407] And then training enough that you can.

[408] could store all this data and have it accessible when these scenarios present themselves again.

[409] Yeah, because again, it's about body control and understanding what your body is going to do naturally now.

[410] The drilling, the drilling, the drilling, I cannot stress enough, the drilling in a safe environment with somebody who's not trying to tear your head off with a good training partner who's going to give you the resistance you need to be able to rep, you know, the repetition and then replicate that movement.

[411] Yeah, we're talking about jujitsu.

[412] but we're not.

[413] We're talking about making pasta.

[414] We're talking about making wine.

[415] These are things that apply to every area of your life.

[416] If you can find one that's more difficult for you than the other ones, you'll improve the things that come naturally to you by focusing on the thing that doesn't come naturally to you.

[417] Yeah, it's the great quote from Miyamoto, Musashi.

[418] Once you understand the way broadly, you can see it in all things.

[419] Yeah.

[420] Yeah, I agree with that.

[421] Yeah.

[422] Yeah, that's the beauty of martial arts.

[423] And that's the thing that's missed by people that don't practice it, that think of it as like some sort of brutal endeavor for, you know, macho brutes assholes.

[424] Yeah, I mean, but, you know, we know those guys.

[425] They exist.

[426] Yeah, they exist.

[427] But they need to exercise too.

[428] Yeah, yeah, they do.

[429] But, you know, I think that just that finding that thing that's actually challenging you, mentally, spiritually, helps with other things that come along, because there's, you know, the world's weird right now.

[430] There's things, I don't know, I feel like we're helping train people to understand that the world goes through a lot of changes.

[431] There's going to be a lot of stress.

[432] Nobody's going to, 90 % of the people, the world are not going to agree with you.

[433] And if you can get through that mentally and emotionally and spiritually to know that there's something on the other side.

[434] I think things like Jiu -Jitsu, things like growing food, resigning yourself to nature and having to navigate farming, those kind of things, they start to reset you in a way where, like, it's not this, not everything has to be an argument.

[435] Mm -hmm.

[436] Sometimes it's you just having to navigate the fucking weather.

[437] Yeah.

[438] If you can get to that mindset, you get a lot more done, honestly.

[439] And you'll survive shit that some people won't because they're so focused on the petty dumb shit that they're going to miss the bigger picture i think a lot of the petty stuff is people also want you to agree with them that's not really necessary you know so many people they have an opinion and they feel like if they can't convince you that they're correct or they can't force their opinion on you that somehow another invalidates their own perspective yeah i find that you know going back again we go right back to jiu jitsu we know guys are like no this is the only way to do this right right right yeah well I just watched this guy beat the shit out of everyone at ADCC and he's not doing the things that you're telling me that you're supposed to only do you know and then like this is the only way that well you're like using Hickson example Hickson says only do this this this this and this you never do these other things it's like have you not watched his valetudo videos he did everything the opposite of what you just said he had his nose before his toes he had like all these things that you're like you're not supposed to do and it's like he you know those things are not necessarily 100 percent so you have to be open -minded you have to disagree with it being one way yeah I mean it really is an art and then be open to hearing the way that you didn't think it was and then there's all these variables like the size of your frame you know the way your body means moves, whether or not you're flexible.

[440] There's so many variables that will present themselves in this sort of equation of how do you express yourself on the mat.

[441] Now that you know, the one thing that I was talking to Donald, the guy you just met today, you know, you were trying to convince a couple of friends, like, to take a class, you know, they're not very athletic, but they, you know, musician friends, like, yeah, just come in and take the white belt class.

[442] You're in a safe environment.

[443] And getting them to understand, like, when you walk, you're not.

[444] in the room and you see a dude shaped like you, that might not be the biggest sniper in the room.

[445] It might be that geeky kid in the corner who looks like he probably works in a library.

[446] Yeah.

[447] Oftentimes it is.

[448] And he's the one who's going to fuck you up.

[449] He looks like he's like, you know, the nerd in the corner with the glasses and the goofy hair.

[450] Yeah.

[451] He's the guy who's going to fuck you up.

[452] The nerd assassins.

[453] Yeah.

[454] Well, because they're analytical.

[455] You know, and Jiu -Jitsu favors the analytical approach.

[456] You analyze, position.

[457] and analyze possible counters and traps that you can set.

[458] That's why I love guys like Mikey Musimechi.

[459] Because you know it is?

[460] He is a fascinating fellow who I had him on the podcast.

[461] He's like the smileiest assassin, thick glasses, only eats pizza and pasta, and he only eats once a day.

[462] Trains, no bullshit, 12 hours a day, just constantly drilling and going over positions, big -ass smile on his face.

[463] he's multiple time world champion and he's just fucking assassinating people we have a new guy at our gym brown belt out of easton and he and he has he's kind of a geeky dude tall with glasses named Clay Wimmer he's from a mall's gym in Colorado yeah he's out of a centennial I think he got his brown belt from Valor and he when he's when he's rolling he's got this creepy grin on his face like what do you're creeping me out Dude, stop grinning.

[464] And he's like, he's one of those backpack fuckers.

[465] He gets red on your back and you're like, you're screwed.

[466] And he got there.

[467] You know how he got there, but he got there.

[468] And he's grinning the whole time, like sometimes chewing gum.

[469] You're like, are you, you're chewing, you're chewing, and you're grinning.

[470] You're creeping me out, man. That's Mikey.

[471] Pull up Mikey Musamechi takes Iminari's back.

[472] There's a video of him.

[473] Watch this.

[474] This is, he already took the back.

[475] Watch how he takes it back.

[476] Go back a little bit of ways.

[477] and you see the position so they're in a scramble and Iminari who's like the master leg locker watch how Mikey takes his back this is so fucking beautiful he takes mount this is Mikey on top here and this is again this is against Eminart look at this back take look at that oh you got that neck grab do you see how sweet that was yeah look how sweet back up a little bit look how sweet that was so he's in that look at that man fucking so slick yeah and that's and again that's him doing it to Iminari, who's just a fucking legend.

[478] And he traps the arm.

[479] I mean, just incredible stuff.

[480] Super, super high level.

[481] And that's Mikey.

[482] And I think he's 24.

[483] You got it.

[484] And look at him.

[485] That's Mikey.

[486] I love that guy.

[487] He's amazing.

[488] And it's to me that he's my favorite example when I show people.

[489] $50 ,000 bonus for that incredible performance.

[490] yeah wow he's just such a sweet guy too and so talented that's what i love about jiu -jitsu that that's like that's a world champion right that it's just it's it's it's an arm form i mean he might as well be playing the violin you know he might as well be you know making paintings or something it's like that's what he's doing yeah it's a beautiful it's yeah and like i said it's hardest one of the hardest things ever done in my life it's fucking hard shit yeah yeah when i that's i there's a bond that you have like i hung out with uh guy richie his past weekend london and uh we had that's the same sort of conversation like he did my podcast a few years back and he said i wanted to do your podcast because i knew you were a jihitsu guy he's like i knew we would have like very common perspectives on things like there's a thing if you've done it and you've gotten to like he's a black belt on their henzo guy guys he's really legit you know and He's, like, super unassuming guy, but then you start talking to him about details and stuff.

[491] Like, oh, you're fucking legit.

[492] He's for real.

[493] I love those guys.

[494] Yeah.

[495] You know, the guys that doesn't really happen anymore, but, like, the kind of guy that you wish you were at the end of the bar, in some scenario where two dudes or one guy is just fucking with the nerd at the bar, you're going to go, before cameras, before, you know, before these.

[496] So you could actually get away, he could actually get away with it, you know, like, you know, in a bar.

[497] and I just go, oh, this is going to be great.

[498] Did you see the video of Henz O 'Gracy taking some guy down on the subway?

[499] Yeah.

[500] Some asshole just get really shitty.

[501] And you just like, my friend, you've made a big mistake.

[502] Yeah.

[503] Yeah, don't do that anymore.

[504] It's a way of life, though.

[505] It really is.

[506] It's a way of, like, making this thing so difficult that the rest of life seems maybe not less, complicated but more understandable okay you know what I'm saying yeah yeah through that struggle of that thing you can kind of like apply those lessons to other stuff yeah yeah I agree I think it's I've over the years I've applied it to of course writing and and putting music together mm -hmm that's definitely that that struggle of like you hit a you hit a wall You have to navigate, you know, through a round or over.

[507] When you write, do you write on your own?

[508] Do you write with other people?

[509] Like, how do you create music?

[510] Do you create music alone?

[511] It's like, for me, it's, okay, I'm gonna train, I'm gonna train Jiu -Jitsu, okay, we're gonna bring it back to that because that's our, that's our, that's our, that's our base here.

[512] If I'm, you know, if I'm gonna train with somebody, every body type is going to be a different thing and I can't just you know how it is if you're just going to force your will on some other dude then it's just two idiots trying to force their will on each other and you're going to gas out you have to see what this thing is and this person how they're approaching you are they approaching you standing are they butt scooting are they going to you know are they going to you know whatever they're going to do each song and every riff or whatever is a reaction to what I'm seeing or hearing, right?

[513] So I'm not just going to come in with a lyric and come up with a line on top of some kind of rhythm or a melody.

[514] I have to pay attention to what's in front of me and work around that thing and listen to it and pay attention to it and drill.

[515] So how does this process start?

[516] Like, say you have a blank slate.

[517] Blank slate.

[518] So for me, there's not really a blank slate.

[519] It's me going to, maybe it's me going to Matt and going, okay, just in general, I'd like to see what we can do with, there's some sounds that I heard on this, you know, maybe it's a movie soundtrack, maybe it was a record, you know, maybe I'm picking out like mandolin or, you know, some kind of a particular pedal from a guitar or a film that has like a ricuder, a riff going through it or something, a vibe.

[520] And maybe Matt has picked up, in the case of existential, Reckoning, he picked up a bunch of amazing old synths, like Farolite and Sinclaviour and all this kind of cool shit that's, in a way, it's...

[521] What are you saying, synthizers.

[522] Synthesizeers.

[523] Yeah, so old school, like, you know, craftwork, you know, yes, old, like, you know, Michael's Jackson's, like, beroom, beroom, boughom, boughom, like that familiar sound that's from a very specific thing.

[524] And you can manipulate those sounds to a point, but you're kind of box.

[525] in on the what those things can do in some cases like the fair light's very it's going to give you a very specific sound well now there's the framework and he'll come up with a melody or a thing and he'll throw it to me and I'll just drill drill drill that thing into my head driving around with it in my car truck you know putting headphones on on the plane and just listen in the cellar I'll it on while I'm working on stuff just to just to put that thing on loop and drill it into my head of what it is so that I can figure out how to go through around or over this thing work with it work against it intentionally so it's it's a mathematical three -dimensional geometric puzzle so when you're listening to it and you're just like going over in your head you just like allowing it to talk to you correct correct you know you know You know, just like we were going over today with Danaher, like, okay, we're in this position, but did the guy retract his elbow or did he leave his elbow forward?

[526] Is the riff giving me an elbow, or is the riff cutting me off on a particular rhythm or a melody?

[527] Because, you know, you might have a melody in mind, but you get closer to the end of that riff, and it might have changed directions, then your note is sour.

[528] So you have to pay attention to what note goes with that thing, and rhythmically as well as sonically, like, you know, melodically.

[529] So it's you getting used to this thing And he might be able to move it I might go by hey man can we Can we adjust a few things in here and move forward So it is definitely a step by step piece I will respond Then he will give me back a thing Or that he's developed further And I'll respond to his response And then at some point I'll go to Karina and go Hey I'd like to hear Before I go too far I want to hear what you would do over what I've done, over what he's done.

[530] And now it's a triad of us navigating that sonic landscape.

[531] So it must be an interesting dance in that you have to do it with people that have sort of the same engagement that you do.

[532] Same level of discipline, the same...

[533] Same level of discipline, but strengths where I don't have strengths, I have strengths where they don't have strengths.

[534] So you're kind of filling in each other's gaps with a common goal.

[535] So, yeah, so we definitely have common things that we like, but we also bring different strengths to the table to make it work as a whole.

[536] That's one of the more challenging things I would imagine about a band, is that you kind of have to get everybody on the same sort of...

[537] You have to remain open.

[538] Your listening skills art should be as important.

[539] and as honed as your regurgitating skills.

[540] I'm successful and this is what I do.

[541] Fuck you.

[542] No. Then it's just sounds starting the same.

[543] You're not really progressing as an artist to kind of reinvent yourself and see things from a different perspective.

[544] My opinion.

[545] Do you see this process more clearly now than you did?

[546] years ago like is this something that you get better at oh yeah like anything it's just that's you you get better i think you just get better at listening the more you listen and i've you know it's like it's like anything there's a there's a an action reaction and then is there's some kind of reinforcement of that behavior right i found that when i started listening more and reacting more as a listener the the reinforcement of that behavior was that there was a better thing that came out the other end rather than just sounding like something had already done before, jammed over something that somebody else has already done before.

[547] So you reinvent.

[548] And then the behavior is reinforced because the thing, not from somebody externally, but like from the thing that you're hearing, you go, I've never heard me do that before.

[549] Great.

[550] Keep honing that knife.

[551] How long can you do that for?

[552] ever forever yeah just listen forever because you're you're going to be hearing it at a different age you're going to be hearing it differently than you would 10 years ago or 20 years ago right and for you as long as it's engaging and as long as it's fascinating you keep doing it I will definitely you know probably already I'm in half my head up my own ass but you know I won't be relevant to the TikTokers of the world because that's just not It's not on their radar.

[553] It's not those people that listen to the things they listen to and the things that respond, the people that respond to the things they respond to now, I'm not necessarily relevant.

[554] But there's an entire generation of people that's not just my generation.

[555] There's people older than me and much younger than me that have grown with this thing.

[556] And so as they're aging, they're discovering it.

[557] Right, right.

[558] Can you think, do you think about that, though?

[559] Do you think about, like, whether or not you're relevant or whether or not?

[560] You can't, because you'll start being desperate and getting plastic surgery and looking like a fucking alien and trying to insert yourself into some stupid fucking thing.

[561] I'm not talking about anybody.

[562] Yeah.

[563] No, you can.

[564] I'm not talking about my peers.

[565] Fuck, man. If you are alive, you have to assume other people are going to, if you're on a vibe, there's other people that are going to be on that vibe.

[566] There's so many people.

[567] Yeah.

[568] You can't, yeah, the quest for relevancy is like, oh, boy.

[569] It, it, it, it turns to desperation very quickly.

[570] Yeah.

[571] It reeks.

[572] So just maintain your art, dude, like just, and then, I don't know, we're just having, we're having fun creating.

[573] Well, you guys are also so diverse, like, your sounds are so diverse.

[574] And I think that's one of the strengths of you is that with Tool and Pusufor and, like, you know, perfect circle, you've done so, so much different stuff.

[575] It's like.

[576] That's the listening part.

[577] What does Billy do?

[578] What do Adam, Justin, and Danny do?

[579] What does Matt and Karina do?

[580] I'm listening to what they're doing and having that conversation with them and building on those relationships.

[581] Yeah.

[582] There are different conversations.

[583] There are different people with different life experiences.

[584] The art and the sounds that come out of those people is going to be 100 % different.

[585] Even if I'm the common thing, if nobody knew that I was in Pusufor and you were just listening to it you might pick up that that kind of sounds like the guy from Perfect Circle but probably not like it would be a whole different experience if you didn't know that I was involved yeah for sure that's why I think these kind of conversations are so interesting to other artists because they get to like see this sort of like you know you've you've been around long enough that you're you have a foundation you know you're solid in your approach and there's a lot of people out there Like, am I doing it right?

[586] I mean, what am I doing?

[587] I don't know.

[588] Is this the right way to do it?

[589] Should I change it?

[590] What should I do?

[591] And then...

[592] I have that.

[593] You know, I'm fairly confident in some things, but I try to, like, change it up as much as I can.

[594] I guess, you know, it's going to start roasting coffee soon.

[595] So maybe that's one of those, like, resets of, like, I don't know what I'm doing.

[596] Right.

[597] It's relearn this thing that I don't have any idea and it might suck.

[598] Those are valuable, right?

[599] Those new things?

[600] I think.

[601] I think so.

[602] I think just that, you know, it could be written off to like midlife crisis, but I think it's also just understanding that chaos and change is part of life.

[603] And if you can kind of get yourself to recognize that things aren't, you're not going to just get to a spot and it's going to be that for the rest of your life.

[604] It's always going to be something changing.

[605] I think it also speaks to the complex aspect of thinking itself, because, like, you know, what is, what are thoughts and creativity and how do you keep them inspired and engaged?

[606] And I think one of the ways to do it is to become a beginner again.

[607] Yeah.

[608] To just try some.

[609] That's why I started getting back into Jiu -Jitsu.

[610] It took me forever to get back in because I was living in an remote area, but then when I got into it, I was progressing.

[611] And then I felt like, okay, I need to, you know, I need to ruin my day.

[612] So I took up Moitai, which is like, way.

[613] Like, I'm not great at Jiu -Jitsu.

[614] Holy shit, I really suck at Muay.

[615] Well, you also did it after a hip replacement, which is pretty wild.

[616] Yeah, well.

[617] I'm not smart.

[618] But you are, because it's like, why not?

[619] It's fucking, they fixed it.

[620] Yeah, but that works.

[621] kind of a reset where you're jolting your brain into understanding a whole different thing you don't you're not familiar with the reset is huge i think yeah and you know now it but you know i'm i'm a fairly successful musician i have a backup plan i have these things i think on some level i can do that not a lot of people can think in terms of like their entire career of a reset of their entire career because there might not be something for you you to be able to do that right I can I can kind of get away with that for now well it's also harder if you're boxed into it like if you're a pop star you know you're boxed in oh yeah you know you have like a very specific genre that you're successful in very hard for those people to branch out yeah you know because I'm sure you've met people that are fucking huge in their in their genres that are just pop stars huge and I don't I don't know I haven't met a lot of those people I have no idea if there's that there's a core person to have a conversation with there I have no idea because I'm not there is with some of them I don't travel in those circles like with Miley Cyrus there is she's fascinating that's a she's a unique little artist I've met her she's wild she's very interesting she's a real artist you know but she's also I make fun of her in our new show not bad it's like I think she would not find the joke for you i'm sure she would she's got a good sense of humor she's fun but you know she's a pop star but she's also like she experiments with shit and she's you know she's trying to find whatever it is that in that's engaging to her right yeah and i i i have friends that are mutual friends with her and i think that's that's what i'm hearing yeah she's she's digging i became interested in her when she did she covered jolene you know i heard that song like jesus like there's a soul to that girl's voice that yeah belies her age and you know and what you would expect from her right you know to cover that dolly parton song and do it and it's like very unique way with a like a beautiful fucking sound to it right you know yeah but again trapped in that machine yeah for sure and that was that you know she literally had to start swearing every other word to break out of at least part of that you're so trapped into you know Hannah Montana thing that in order to get out of that you had to start you know almost like go full Mike Patton and start smearing shit on everything just to fucking erase it you know to start over well that just that happens to a lot of those people they just get stuck in this thing that's like uber successful and yeah but you know it seems like she's she's figured a way to wiggle she has and broaden out of it yeah wiggle out of it but man what a fucking what a salmon trip up the fucking waterfall that is yeah because there's so many people with their hands out so many people don't that have a piece of that so many people that don't want you to to branch out because you know anything you do that's not that they think could ruin the gravy train that they're that they're enjoying right so we can see how that might be and the egos involved like the of the popularity and the and the attention and the money the people that you get to hang out with yeah i'm just not i'm not in that circle so i don't know i don't know i'm not i'm not wired for it i'm not i'm not that's not part of my world i'm not i'm not judging it at all but i i i've that's not part of my you know, fucking name five huge pop celebrities of actors and musicians.

[622] If they go, hey, we want to come to your show, like, what did I, what did I do?

[623] You know, what did I, what, how does that, what is what I'm doing have, make, of any interest to you?

[624] Right.

[625] I don't know what that would look like or what, what are you seeing?

[626] It's somebody, what?

[627] I would be very suspicious of those people coming and actually reacting to what we're doing But is that because you boxed them yourself Like you decide that Like what they've created Is all they are?

[628] No, no I just would be wondering What Yeah, maybe I guess maybe I'm being judgmental It's easy to do, right?

[629] Yeah, but Especially it's fun to do But like Because I know that I'm busy And those people are busy So why would they stop What they're doing To come and do to pay attention to this thing they already have all this shit going on like why would they come to the thing and I'm talking about numbers not just one person like five or six people all at once decided to come you know like you know Gwyneth Paltrow and fucking Brad Pitt and somebody somebody wants to come to your show I'd be like are they were they promised something is there something I don't know like why would you come here right what what interest would you have in this thing that does this how is this even on your radar you know that that would I would be very suspicious of that.

[630] That's funny that you'd be suspicious.

[631] Do you watch Black Mirror?

[632] I started to back when it first, first came out.

[633] And some of those episodes are pretty fucking amazing.

[634] Amazing.

[635] Well, there's a really wild one with Miley Cyrus.

[636] And in this one, she has like this evil aunt who's like controlling her career.

[637] And they download, spoiler alert, they download her mind into, this little doll like this robot doll that you can buy and it's like your little Miley Cyrus friend but it actually is her inside this thing and some multiple versions of her yeah but it's like it's I don't want to fuck this up because people should watch it it's a fun episode but it's her trying to escape her pop lifestyle but she's being controlled by all these people that have you know vested interest in her making extraordinary amounts of money with that that genre and then she gets out of it eventually right but it's pretty wild but it's that thing it's like speaks to that struggle yeah yeah it's like you know you assume that Justin Bieber's just that fucking guy that sings like a girl you know like he's sound like first heard Justin Bieber like what a beautiful voice that girl has and then like that's a guy I'm like oh what oh he's young oh okay and then you know he matures over time and he becomes this different thing it's like but it's still a human yeah you know like if he wanted to go see a puss of a show i could imagine you'd be like what he would be welcome sure sure i wouldn't i would never say those people can't come to my you know i would be happy to entertain i'm not a i'm not a i'm an asshole but not that kind of an asshole you're not a snob no you've got a hundred percent welcome to come to those things but uh yeah i wouldn't exclude anybody from that art it's art You know, something might resonate with them that would end up showing up in something that they did next, right?

[638] We all, artists all feed off each other in some way.

[639] There's like, I'm inspired by a bunch of different films, TV shows, bands.

[640] For sure.

[641] Visual artists, you know, those things inspire me and they get me thinking on, you know, the next thing that I'm going to do.

[642] And how do I build on that and make it make sense.

[643] Well, music is inspirational in such a weird way, too.

[644] It's like a drug, you know?

[645] Like prison sex, that song, there's something about that song that makes me want to lift.

[646] Like, when I'm lifting weights, that song is just like the guitar riff, it's just fucking it just like gives you extra juice.

[647] Okay.

[648] You know, there's something about music that it provides, like, it opens up a specific pathway in you that it's like a drug.

[649] It really is.

[650] It's an amazing drug of inspiration.

[651] And it can be a, it's a neural map in a way that opens up that, whatever that is you're getting.

[652] There's a rhythm and a tone to that thing that's inspiring those myelin connections in you to do a thing.

[653] I could see that.

[654] Yeah.

[655] And also it speaks to, especially like older music is like a time map.

[656] it's like a map of the culture when that song was created who this person is how they fit into the culture whether or not they're around anymore like whenever I listen to Hendricks in particular it's like Hendricks to me is like a map of the 60s in a lot of ways yeah it's like the rebellion from the Vietnam era it's a it's a it's a it's a something that happened on that day at that time on that site in that place made that certain way that's a time capsule of that moment yeah Yeah, it really is.

[657] And unique in that way that you could kind of listen to it and it transports you.

[658] It takes you there.

[659] Like Janice Joplin does that for me too.

[660] It brings me to that time.

[661] You know, it just like you try to imagine the context of when it was created, who she was.

[662] So going back to your original question of how we write, you have to be true.

[663] To me, for the way that I write, is I'm trying to be true to who I am today because those are waypoints like as you pointed out those are waypoints along your particular history and your experiences so if I can be in the present moment when I'm writing those things about what's happening how I'm feeling about things even though some of the experiences are lifelong experiences how I perceive those experiences today and how I can attach those to a bed of rhythms and sounds and melodies will end up hopefully being what you're talking about.

[664] It's a waypoint for that moment and time that now you can go back and revisit.

[665] Yeah.

[666] It's such as a unique art form in that way.

[667] It just encapsulates so many different things.

[668] Lyrics and sounds and feelings and just you can just turn it on any time you want.

[669] I mean, what a weird time too because you just talk to your phone and tell your phone, hey, play me this.

[670] Yeah.

[671] Ooh.

[672] Yeah.

[673] So strange.

[674] It is wild.

[675] The access, the access to that art is so instantaneous now.

[676] Just so bizarre.

[677] But like anything, it's a hammer, right?

[678] You can use that hammer to build something.

[679] You can use that hammer to destroy something.

[680] This is such an awful thing and such an amazing thing, depending on how you're, how you're dealing with it.

[681] Yeah.

[682] You can use it to gain more control, more money, or you can use it, you know, to share things with people.

[683] Right.

[684] And help them find a way.

[685] And also, like, having a level of discipline is so important when engaging with that thing.

[686] Because I think, Ken, you know, we were talking about TikTok earlier today, about how the parent company of TikTok is using TikTok to specifically monitor the location.

[687] of American individuals and how fucking crazy that is.

[688] I deleted it.

[689] Yeah, I never had it.

[690] I wouldn't, right away, I was like, what?

[691] And then when they were talking about banning it, and I started looking into it, I was like, that thing's, that's a problem.

[692] And then we read on one day, during the podcast, we read the terms of service and what it's allowed to do, which nobody reads.

[693] Agree.

[694] Yeah, agree.

[695] Everybody agrees.

[696] But it's so funny.

[697] up that when I read it, I couldn't believe that it was real.

[698] I had to go over it from multiple different sites and then, like, I'm going to know that this is, am I being accurate with this?

[699] Is it really have access to your computers that aren't connected to TikTok?

[700] If you have the same, like, if you use the same email account, you have the same computer and a network, yes, yes, it does.

[701] It has access to everything you do, which is fucking banana.

[702] So I read that over, and one of my kids came home, she said that her friend was mad because her mom listened to me talk about the terms of service and made him delete TikTok from his phone.

[703] Yeah, it's a new world.

[704] It's a whole new world.

[705] But on the other side, there's so much interesting stuff that you can get off of it.

[706] I'm so much more educated about so many different subjects because of it, because of that access to date.

[707] Yeah, if I, you know, I just harvested some of the stuff from our produce from our garden.

[708] I'm like, I have these random things.

[709] I'm going to try to do something with these random things.

[710] Just type in the random ingredients recipe, like all these things.

[711] And there's 12 fucking recipes involving these things.

[712] And now I can make this amazing salad with these things.

[713] It's fucking delicious.

[714] And my wife's going, what the fuck is this?

[715] You know, so there's those benefits of like, how do I roast coffee again?

[716] How do I, you know, how do I make this particular sauce for a pasta?

[717] it's all right there how do I fix this this specific power washer that's broken how do I fix this power washer so I can get back to cleaning bins oh here's a whole like four video options of like understanding how to you know fix that that mechanical thing that you could never have you would have to take it to somebody 10 years ago yeah we just don't have the the user manual for how to use it correctly right you know It's like everyone knows you can't drink whiskey all day long, you'll die, you know, but you can have a drink or two and it can enhance conversation and it's a social lubricant.

[718] You feel great, but we know that because we have a human history of use that dates back hundreds and hundreds of years.

[719] This, there's no thing going to turn this fucking thing off.

[720] Yeah.

[721] I just got a notification from my phone the other day that said my screen time is down 77%.

[722] And I'm like, yes, congratulations.

[723] I did it.

[724] Yeah.

[725] But that's because of that, trying to make my own user manual.

[726] I find that the reason I'm on it more than I would be is because three bands, three wineries, you know.

[727] Sure.

[728] All the businesses that I have going on, I end up being on it a lot more than I want to be just because I'm answering questions or inspiring plans or whatever.

[729] Yeah.

[730] They just have to be responsive.

[731] Yeah, for me, it's a quest for interesting shit to stimulate my mind.

[732] I mean, I'm always looking for like, what's a new place for me to go to find things?

[733] You know, and I sometimes feel boxed in.

[734] I'm only going to like a specific, like, six or seven different sites to try to get information.

[735] Well, I need a new site.

[736] I need a new thing.

[737] Like, how do I get that thing?

[738] Right, right.

[739] Where is it?

[740] How do I get access to a new perspective that I didn't consider before?

[741] and not get overwhelmed by fucking pop -up ads and bullshit and nonsense.

[742] Yeah, I do, I do, you know, we're currently on the road.

[743] This is a stop on the way.

[744] We're playing Texas with the new version two of the Pusufor Tour.

[745] And I find that when I'm in the break after sound check or before training jiu -jitsu with whatever person I can find in that town, I end up rather than going to those things that I should, like you're talking about, I'll just go back and I'll be watching in my dressing, there's old episodes of stuff.

[746] So it's almost like, for me, it's like I'm turning my brain off with my Apple TV.

[747] I'm just, I'm just going to zone out and have a like whatever light lunch I'm going to have before the show, play with my dog, and just let that kind of be almost background noise of what's going on.

[748] So I feel like there's an unconscious Zen thing happening with that.

[749] eye candy and you know familiarity like I'm how many times can I watch teladiga nights many more to be honest I'm going to watch that many more times but like that kind of thing just being there on the background as a familiar comfort you know blanket you know to have it on so that I'm not I'm not thinking too much so in a way I'm putting that on so I'm not on this right so you're learning I'm learning just put a movie on that like it's going and I'm Meanwhile, I'm cleaning out a drawer in the road case of shit that I didn't need.

[750] Like, everybody hands me T -shirts.

[751] I'm trying to figure out like, okay, don't I really want to hang out of this T -shirt.

[752] There's so many T -shirts.

[753] There's so many shirts.

[754] So many shirts.

[755] I intentionally didn't bring you anything today because, like, I always, like, I feel like you're probably just every fucking time somebody comes in there.

[756] They're just giving you shit.

[757] Yeah, but, you know, every now and then you get good shit.

[758] That's true.

[759] That's true.

[760] It's cool.

[761] I have a lot of cool shit because of that.

[762] Right.

[763] Some of it's nonsense, but it's, again, it's like the phone thing.

[764] You got to filter out.

[765] What is nonsense?

[766] Yeah.

[767] What are you doing in Texas?

[768] Which shows?

[769] We just played, Pistopher just played San Antonio on El Paso.

[770] We play Houston tomorrow and Fort Worth the day after.

[771] And I don't know where the fuck we go from there.

[772] I think it's, I will say Louisiana, Baton Rouge, and New Orleans.

[773] Eventually, I think Halloween we're actually playing in Nashville, which I'm kind of excited about because I love Nashville.

[774] Nashville's awesome.

[775] It's getting a little weird.

[776] It's getting a little Hollywood.

[777] Yeah, but every place is going to get that way.

[778] Of course.

[779] Especially again, right back to this and right back to a podcast like this, I say, oh, I love Nashville and that now people are going to, you know, there's going to be, even if it's five people that decide to go to Nashville because of hearing you say you like Nashville.

[780] or me saying I like Nashville, you know, when did somebody say something about Austin that made you move to Austin?

[781] Because, like, you know, somebody said something and inspired you to move to Austin, which when I used to be here, it was a much different town when I hung out here in 1985.

[782] Mm -hmm.

[783] At what's now, Elysium is the club now on Red River.

[784] It used to be, it might still be, it was like a gay bar.

[785] and on one night a week it would have a thing called Club iguana and it was like a kind of a goth punk rock night in that location and that area was you know it was like the sketchy 7th Street was all the kind of cool alternative gay bar punk rock thing and the 6th Street was all the frat boy things I think it's still kind of that 6th Street's pretty weird now it's got a lot of cool shit is it?

[786] Yeah because all the Hip -hop clubs.

[787] Well, Elysium now is like, I think I could be completely wrong, but it's more like, now it's goth most of the time.

[788] Oh, really?

[789] But I don't know that.

[790] I haven't been in years.

[791] Oh, I started coming here in 99.

[792] And I just, I was like the fact that it seemed different than any other city.

[793] Yeah.

[794] It's got its own, is this here?

[795] This is Austin in 1985.

[796] Nice.

[797] They look like they dance in a wham.

[798] Wake me up.

[799] And where is this?

[800] I typed in that club you said And this is a video that popped up Club iguana Yeah I don't know that it's it specifically But it's someone interviewing people On the street down there Okay How fucking amazing would it be If you see me in this video Because I was hoping Yeah I would you know By day I had my army cap on And my full of BDUs You know And then as soon as we at the weekend Hit and we had the time off Hat comes off two -tone hair, mohawk, wear some, like, adamant -looking, you know, Sergeant Pepper -looking jacket.

[801] And then, like, wearing, you know, like stretchy, a blouse for pants with a belt.

[802] So, like, it's actually a shirt when you're wearing it, like, almost like tights.

[803] Like, you know, we were, we had a fun time.

[804] It was a good time.

[805] Just absurd.

[806] If you saw photos of me, you'd be like, I'm posting this shit on the internet, too.

[807] Fucking, don't you fucking dare post that on the internet.

[808] But that was a good time.

[809] It was fun because it was some, something that wasn't used to in like Michigan we didn't have a club like that right and it was like such a mixed diverse you know a group of people um I just love that area and so I've always had a thing since then I've always had a thing for Austin but I've watched Austin change over the years but it seems like it has this great I don't have the words libertarian or you know central whatever but you've got you've got a mix of everybody here and they've managed to get along and not kill each other well it's a good combination of a blue city and a red state which is kind of my favorite right it's like open -mindedness and progressive but yet surrounded by people with guns who farm yeah yeah you know yeah and that's kind of and that's kind of what we have kind of up in like in Jerome Sedona area it's it's very much that mix yeah but you know it's it's a I don't I've just I've always had a thing for Austin I just like coming here it's it's that town yeah well it makes sense to me yeah as did I that's why I moved here Los Angeles I don't I don't resonate resonate with Los Angeles I don't resonate with far kind of more right cities either you know that's there's you know is there a right city I don't know it just seems like there's they don't even exist do they well that's the thing about you get a group of people together they almost always become a Democrat city that could be yeah it's weird it's fascinating that you just get enough numbers and they go blue almost always all right that's the big fear about texas is that you get enough people come here it's gonna go blue they're all worried that they're gonna lose that fucking weird edge of freedom that makes texas unique and independent yeah texas texas i don't think you have anything to worry about Texas.

[810] Texas is an amazing state and it's just going to it's going to maintain its identity through whatever.

[811] Hopefully yeah yeah I like it I hope it's just you know when you see like that video from like 1985 what's interesting about that that that was pre -internet right so that the identity of that was kind of organic people just sort of yeah you know they just decided to all like that was ground zero for ecstasy that was like that was Dallas was right yeah but like it was when I was in in uh at that club it had come here in its purest form and I was still in the military and I'm like yeah I'm not gonna I'm not gonna chance that getting caught with it yeah or I don't know like they said you couldn't it wasn't technically illegal it just wasn't legal you know it was that weird thing but like when there's just always that clause in the military like da da da da da da da da da da da but up to our discretion so like you know and I'm not going to I'm not going to chance it because maybe they would detect it somehow and, you know, I'd be fucked and sent to fucking the brig. There's a podcast called Psychedelic Salon.

[812] There's a guy named Lorenzo who runs it who has also been a guest on the podcast, but he was a pretty straight -laced guy and he was living in Texas.

[813] I think it was Dallas and then did ecstasy for the first time and was like, whoa, like, okay, like this is a different fucking world.

[814] Yeah.

[815] can see why people might do this.

[816] Yeah, and then he became a, not just a hippie, but a guy who runs a podcast that plays like old Alan Watts speeches and Thomas McKenna things.

[817] I mean, psychedelic salon is probably like the best resource of like just psychedelic conversations and people talk.

[818] And he's run by this guy who's, God, I think he was a lawyer, wasn't he?

[819] Do you remember?

[820] I forget what his, but he was like super straight -laced guy.

[821] who someone turned him on to it.

[822] You know, it's like Jack Herrer, the guy who wrote The Emperor, has no clothes.

[823] Like that guy was a, like a Goldwater Republican and got divorced, met some new gal.

[824] They smoked pot together.

[825] And then all of a sudden he became this, like, hemp activist.

[826] And, you know, became this, like, super open -minded hippie who's writing books on mushrooms and marijuana.

[827] Yeah, I can see that.

[828] Yeah.

[829] Because those things are, you know, they alter your perspective and they open up neural pathways that you hadn't been open to you before.

[830] Now, I wonder if you're a kid who grew up in that thing as a young kid and you tried it, if it wouldn't have the same effect because you're not, that consciousness shift, that near -death kind of thing in your body or whatever that shifts your perspective that opens up new possibilities.

[831] If that was always kind of present in you, are you a person who would build something interesting or go down some interesting path?

[832] Or would it take you trudging along in the world that you live in and all of a sudden having that moment, that consciousness opening thing that you've already established what you think the world is and then it changes your perspective?

[833] Yeah, I've met some people that started out that way.

[834] They started it out like very liberal, open -minded, progressive, drugs, and free thinking.

[835] And then they got annoyed with all the negative aspects of it.

[836] And they eventually became conservative.

[837] Which is, you know, they eventually realized like, hey, like hard work and dedication and discipline are that they're very important components of a successful existence.

[838] Interesting how that flips, right?

[839] Yeah.

[840] Yeah.

[841] I could see that.

[842] I could see that.

[843] That makes sense.

[844] Yeah.

[845] It's just, what's one of the beautiful things about America is that there are so many different ways to live.

[846] And you can find these little patches of humans that sort of have just gotten to this different mindset together, you know.

[847] Yeah, it's not easy to arrive at.

[848] No, it's like there's so many, I mean, there's different ways to live your life, and there's different cities that you can go to, and they'll help you with that.

[849] they'll feed that vibe or destroy it or turn you into them or you know turn you jaded like the new york city vibe yeah i'm just you know i grew up in a small town so i kind of that's kind of where i resonate more i feed off of a larger city vibe when i'm there in it for those temporary moments but then I got to retreat back to population 500 yeah even when I lived in L .A. I didn't live in L .A. I lived outside of it in Ventura County and you know dealing with coyotes and shit that to me made more sense just I need some peace I mean I have friends that love to be on top of it they love living in Manhattan on the 34th floor and yeah I couldn't be that I always always kind of lived right in that kind of near between Coanga and Wilton in the Hollywood Hill area where you get like Caliwiti's the size of fucking Bewick's area.

[850] The Hollywood Hills are always, it's always been weird because it is kind of urban but it's kind of not.

[851] Like it's really quick to get into, like you get to Chateau Marmont in like five minutes.

[852] Yeah.

[853] And you're not or like needles and bum shit like that's right there and Chateau Marmont's right there and then like the Gucci's right there and then there's like a coyote and you know fighting over a fucking raven and fighting over a rabbit.

[854] Well especially now.

[855] Like have you been now and seen the like the human wildlife is out of control now?

[856] Yeah, it's nuts.

[857] I don't know what to do.

[858] I have no. I can't really speak on it because I have no solution.

[859] I don't like speaking about things that I don't think I have maybe like a suggestion of a solution.

[860] I just, it's it's a. it's a mess, I can, I can acknowledge it's a mess, and I have no, I have no idea how to get out of it.

[861] Does it shock you?

[862] Do you see how much different things are, like three years, like post -COVID?

[863] Yeah, it does.

[864] I just assume, and I guess my retreat is to try to grow more food, to teach my friends how to grow food, and to understand how to, you know, distillation, roasting coffees, like growing things, making, producing things, making, producing things.

[865] things in house, that's my default of understanding like whatever's going to happen, unless it's a meteor or something crazy that interrupts, you know, what we recognize to be as weather patterns and growing seasons and those kind of things.

[866] Whatever's happening politically, financially in the world, if we can just remember how to secure fresh water and grow things and survive whatever this is, I don't have any answers other than that.

[867] That's my default, to grow things and to, not hoard, to actually be active in conscious, aware, in the space to figure out how to survive this thing.

[868] And it's, yeah.

[869] It might be the only thing you can do because it doesn't seem to me that anybody has real answers.

[870] They have opinions and they express those opinions and some more confident than others, but it doesn't seem like there's any real clear path as to how things I think it's just a time thing I think you know it's like like the Hindus came up with the concept of the yugas the different ages of civilization I think that was very astute I think they were accurate I think there's something to that that things have to go in sort of a natural cycle yeah of success and decay it'll come to a head and it'll figure out a way through it yeah you just got to take care of yourself while it's all getting weird yeah and also help people other people take care of themselves too so because right that's that's where the the old um the walking dead shit goes sideways when people are like just not taking care of each other right yeah that's what's interesting about that show or interesting about any concept of the apocalypse end times it's the real concern is other humans is how humans react to this deterioration of civility.

[871] Yeah.

[872] Yeah, I would like to think, because I'm an idiot and romantic, I'd like to think that we would, most of us would choose the right way to do a thing.

[873] But when faced with impossible situations, I think that we're probably going to go back to our primitive.

[874] I think many of us will choose the right way.

[875] But the problem is there's been so many people that developed in sort of a an environment where you didn't really have to have earned character you know where you don't really develop the concepts of discipline and of you know of postponing pleasure and and you know it's like to to to farm off all the important things that need to be done to work to have society function correctly on other people but yet expect it to work and then it goes away and you never really developed the discipline or the skill or the understanding of what's required yeah just understanding you know and I don't this is of I don't know if I'm just kind of making this up but it seems like that that 40 hour work week I know that's kind of a standard like you know that's your weird corporate that's the way we've grown up but if you can do a thing and focus on doing a thing where you're you know you're working your 30 to 60 hour week of something that you're doing that i feel like as long as it's feeding you in some way that's i'm that's what i do i i don't have like i don't work like i don't know 10 hours and then coast for the rest of the fucking week that's I'm working that moment where you're starting your workout and your heart rate's going up and you're like man I don't know if I'm going to be able to do this today well you got to just get past you gotta get past that first five minutes of getting it to the next to the next thing yeah and then you can do that thing for fucking 70 hours a week right it's like it's you can get past that whatever that little initial the resistance the resistance yeah Yeah.

[876] That's the thing that people don't learn how to do.

[877] And, you know, now people are struggling with remote work because they don't want to go back to an office where they're forced to actually get past the resistance.

[878] You can kind of like fuck off and you use an app that pretends your cursor is moving around and...

[879] Right.

[880] You get caught jerking off on Zoom.

[881] No, I didn't.

[882] When?

[883] But, you know what I'm saying?

[884] It's like you are a guy who...

[885] who wants to be stimulated often with your endeavors.

[886] And some people never learn that.

[887] And that's sad to me. That's unfortunate, because I think we all could be that.

[888] And we all could find satisfaction and just a real sense of purpose and a real sense of, I want to say accomplishment, but that's not really the word.

[889] It's like engagement, you know, where life becomes.

[890] rewarding and stimulating and it's like you have these robust moments these exciting things that are happening in these endeavors these things that you're choosing to do that are complicated and difficult to do and if you can get past that initial resistance but some people did just never develop that and that's what's unfortunate to me about people that just work they just have a job and the job doesn't engage them and they just want to get out of there it's like there's other ways to live life and if you could find a life that is engaging and if you could find things that do stimulate you and find things that you do get real satisfaction out of the complexity of them and the learning and the the growing and the you know the the constant stimulation of those things it's like i think part of it and this is just my upbringing i don't know that this was everybody's but there was my dad was very and my stepmother were very inspirational for me to be able to always assume that maybe you don't know what you think you know and also work toward a thing so that you can develop just that focus in those skills and understanding connecting A to B to C like we're going to weed this thing we're going to till this ground we're going to do this thing and at the end of the day you're not going to know what you just did we're not going to know until like next week or four weeks from now or six weeks from now we're weeding that spot to make sure that this thing survives and then you're harvesting that thing and we're going to have that thing for dinner when you start connecting that all the way back to the cause and effect that was a very important lesson and how some of the things I did wrong so we don't get to have this part so understanding everything you had to do for your day to enjoy the thing you're doing but also understanding you're doing it for a bigger purpose you have a connection with it I don't know that was instilled in me early and I think you're right like people that don't really understand if you're doing this thing just because you're trying to survive and you don't really you're not connecting the beginning to the end yeah I guess you are miserable you're going to pick up the app that's going to move the cursor around because you're not really helping anyone but I don't know they don't have examples of those people around them which is part of the problem of all of us is that we you know what you were talking about how all art is kind of inspired by other art well this is kind of an art to living life and sometimes we don't have local examples of someone who's doing it in a way that you find engaging and stimulating and so you don't know what to do and And if you're surrounded by people that are just using that app to move the cursor around, you think that this is just the way to do it, and then you seek thrills in drugs or in entertainment or something that just numbs you.

[891] The dopamine addiction?

[892] Yeah.

[893] Dopamine, alcohol, jerking off, gambling, anything, something that just like removes you from the...

[894] Sounds like a Saturday morning to me, sir.

[895] Sunday morning and a Monday morning I'm just kidding I don't gamble at all yeah no yeah I feel like there's it's a it's a treading water disconnect from the bigger picture of things yeah that's a whole other six hour conversation right just not are you just are you just a are you just a clock you're like you're just like an hourglass yeah you're just marking time till it's you're done I don't know a lot of people it doesn't make that that's that's that's sad to me to try to like well it's sad to them too that's why so many people are depressed it's one of the reasons well you know we've talked about before like the the action reaction the immediate like the immediacy of everything I want this thing and and I'm bitching because Amazon didn't deliver it to me before I ordered it they should normally know what I want and it should come yeah Yesterday.

[896] Life is just not like that.

[897] And when that goes away and you're like trying to figure out how to like find fresh water, fuck, good luck to you.

[898] Well, there are so many people that develop things that do give you that immediate satisfaction.

[899] And some people get addicted, like TikTok.

[900] You're just constantly getting just stimulated versus being a farmer.

[901] Like I've always been fascinated with farmers because when you talk.

[902] Talk to them.

[903] That's the long game, dude.

[904] Oh, my God, that's the long game.

[905] The amount of work involved, you talk to a real farmer, a real get up at five in the morning farmer, work till dark and be exhausted and then do it all over again and not get rich.

[906] And, you know, all the challenges come along with it.

[907] Because now I'm getting, my phone's blowing up the last couple days because we're spotting a bobcat in the neighborhood.

[908] Well, that means now I've got to bring, I'm not even there and I've I've got to make sure that I'm checking with Jen and make sure she's bringing the ducks home early and paying attention in the morning.

[909] Don't let them out too soon because we want to make sure there's people around.

[910] And I'm literally doing things like peeing into a fucking water bottle and spreading it around the perimeter of the fence because some of those predator cat, they don't like, they think that that territory's been marked.

[911] Does that work?

[912] Well, I hope so because I'm the idiotic.

[913] I'm wearing bottles with piss along the fence line.

[914] My buddy Andrews like, yeah, you piss along the fence line.

[915] Like, dude, I'm not going to go out in my yard and pee on the fence with all my neighbors staring at me. I'm going to have to, like, do the weirder thing, which is be in a bottle and then four.

[916] If it works, then great.

[917] Because I've got, you know, two dozen ducks that I got to, I have to protect them.

[918] So what do you do?

[919] Do you hire someone to, like, watch the ducks or kill the bobcat?

[920] Well, you can't really kill the bobcat.

[921] It's protected.

[922] So you just have to pay attention.

[923] to when the ducks were by themselves and do things like pee on your fence line and like hope that they just pick are you allowed to chase the bobcat off i think what are the laws in terms of what i think you have to call like the you know the local um fishing game to see if they can relocate it maybe but once that if that bobcat finds out i have ducks there's not much i'm going to be able to do it will come back until it gets all of the ducks Yeah, we had that in California with chickens and coyotes.

[924] They got all my fucking chickens.

[925] Just a matter of time.

[926] Just mark your calendar because eventually, like, in about a year, you're going to, like, the video surface where I'm out there, half -naked peeing on a fence chasing off a bobcat, you know, with a fucking paintball gun.

[927] Yeah.

[928] A lot of people just hire someone to deal with that.

[929] But that's not us, where this is what we do.

[930] this is part of our world.

[931] We raise ducks, we raise quail.

[932] My wife's a, and if I told you that, she's a falconer, licensed falconer now.

[933] So she's, we have a, we have a hawk named Loki.

[934] Whoa.

[935] So she has a full -on, full -on hawk.

[936] So when you say licensed falconer, do you use that falcon to go do stuff?

[937] Eventually, eventually will use the quail for you?

[938] Well, yeah, it'll, it loves the quail.

[939] But, you know, we can take it around the vineyards eventually, and it'll chase off ground squirrels and rabbits out of the, out of the vineyard.

[940] I was at a Tahone Ranch recently, which is in central California, and it's, there's more ground squirrels than you could possibly imagine.

[941] They were telling me that the body mass, the biomass of ground squirrels is greater than the biomass of cows they have.

[942] So they have beef cows everywhere.

[943] There's enormous cows everywhere, but there's more body weight and ground squirrels than there are cows.

[944] That's nuts.

[945] There's so many of them.

[946] There's little holes everywhere you go.

[947] I have a solution.

[948] His name's Loki.

[949] Loki would have to go to work.

[950] I watched an eagle catch something.

[951] I don't know what it caught, but a golden eagle.

[952] I watched it snatch something and then drag it up into the cover.

[953] I couldn't see.

[954] But I watched it come down, snatch this thing, and then it was moving with this thing on the ground.

[955] It's incredible how they can see that.

[956] from so far away and like boom and those little fuckers are trying to get away from that eagle too this is a beautiful dance but to be there right when it caught it was wild i try to get close enough to take a photo of it but i couldn't but it's uh you know that's the balance like you have to have that yeah and when you fuck that balance up with like a giant pack of ducks that are all in this one it's like this is so much food in this one spot yeah why am i going anywhere else right fuck ground squirrels These things don't even fly.

[957] Yeah, and they'll come after your ducks.

[958] What do you use the ducks for?

[959] Eggs or you eat them?

[960] No, the eggs.

[961] I make the, well, Chris at the Osteria mix, uses the yolks for our pasta, and then eventually when I open up the brunch place, we'll use the whites to do a keesh.

[962] Duck eggs have a weird way of, like, coating the surface of your mouth.

[963] Like the roof of your mouth, like, It's a weird egg.

[964] Yeah.

[965] That's why I like, and when you put them into pasta, it actually works better.

[966] Rather than just having the scrambled duck egg, I don't prefer the scrambled duck egg.

[967] I like using the yolk for the pasta and the, we'll use a couple yolks, but mainly like an egg white with some yolks, keesh base.

[968] We were talking about this before I know, but are you getting your wheat from other sources?

[969] Like you're getting it from outside the United States?

[970] Yeah, the best, generally speaking, the best wheat flour, is a, it's a, It's an Italian milled flour, but a significant portion of that flour is actually hard wheat, winter wheat, from Arizona.

[971] So you mix them, like a blend?

[972] Well, they do.

[973] They'll get, you know, all the wheat that gets grown around, you know, the Midwest and Arizona ends up going to a central, it's a commodity.

[974] So it goes to a central area, then it gets shipped to a place like Italy, and they mill it and blend it and sell it back to you.

[975] And what's the benefit of adding the Arizona wheat?

[976] It's just that, that, just the way that it works with pasta, you know, the gluten structure of the pasta, that hard winter wheat from Arizona is a good ingredient to make it.

[977] Just for texture?

[978] Texture.

[979] Holding, holding the pasta together, keeping it form, you know, the form, it's a, it's pretty cool to know that, like, there's a, it's a, it's pretty cool to know that, like, there's a, significant amount of Arizona wheat in our flour that we use.

[980] Even though it's not milled in the state, it's a part of the blend.

[981] And is this an heirloom wheat?

[982] Is this a modified wheat?

[983] We were using quite a bit of heirloom flour from Arizona, but the combination of the blend, whatever the Italians do to blend that thing together, it just ends up being better.

[984] So we're trying as much as we can to use Arizona wheat, blend it in.

[985] We blend more in than when it comes in just so because we're trying to support the flour from Arizona.

[986] But at the end of the day, you know, it's got to have structure.

[987] It's got to be tasty.

[988] So we got to do what we got to do to make it the end product be presentable and awesome.

[989] How much do you pay attention to glyphosate and, you know, the real debate now about how much glyphosate is getting into our food supply?

[990] I don't know what the fuck you're talking.

[991] You don't know what Roundup is?

[992] Oh, yeah, Roundup.

[993] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[994] We don't use it in the vineyard.

[995] We used to because we thought that's what you're supposed to do, right?

[996] And then our southern Arizona, the 80 -acre vineyard down there, we have awesome ground cover down there.

[997] And so we just mow the ground cover down or mulch it down.

[998] So we're not using any of the pre -emergent or the weeding shit anymore.

[999] It's a big debate now because there was a recent study that's, I think it was like 80 % of people they tested had glyphosate in their bodies.

[1000] I would imagine it's all of us Yeah Yeah That makes sense Because we used it We used it on everything forever Yeah it's a creepy Herbicide And also I think they've Genetically modified Certain foods To have glyphosate in them Yeah Which is crazy Yeah It's like So we're doing our best To not You know We use as much as we can Just You know Manual weeding Or we use the ground cover in the vineyard to eliminate that part of the process.

[1001] Do you pay attention to people like Joel Salatin from Polyface Farms or any of these people that have like regenerative agricultural practices where they it's interesting because I don't know if it's scalable.

[1002] Like the big question is like...

[1003] That's that ends up being the issue.

[1004] Too many people.

[1005] Right.

[1006] You know.

[1007] Too many people not growing food, which is the big problem cities.

[1008] Yeah, too many, yeah, too many people not growing food.

[1009] too many people in general or just the scale of doing that thing with the current the way we do farming like you know the debate of you know migrant workers coming in and working on things um it's a it's it's a lot it's a lot to do so that's why you end up defaulting to things like round up in those things because they're trying to make the margin and cut the corner to get the thing done and it's a economy of scale i guess um So we're trying as much as best we can to do that in -house.

[1010] We grow our own food for the trotterioseria and the place in the Scots that we do as much as we can to grow food for those locations.

[1011] So the stuff that's on the pizza, the stuff that's stuffed in the raviolis, the salad you get on the Labrador plate.

[1012] A significant amount of that is what we grow.

[1013] You start to supplement.

[1014] So when we supplement, we supplement from local growers in Arizona.

[1015] that are organic growers that are not using the Roundup.

[1016] But again, that's, you're dealing with a couple of medium -sized restaurants.

[1017] We're not talking about a chain of olive gardens across the country.

[1018] Right.

[1019] Or just a city.

[1020] Yeah.

[1021] You know, a city of 15 million people that aren't growing food.

[1022] Right.

[1023] Just the sheer bulk of the amount of stuff that's consumed.

[1024] Right.

[1025] That's the weirdest thing about cities is that we've figured.

[1026] out this way to make these centers where you have extraordinary populations with, you know, cement structures and, you know, water piped in underground, but there's no food.

[1027] Everything has to be trucked in.

[1028] Yeah.

[1029] I don't know.

[1030] I'm sure there's somebody smarter than me could figure that out.

[1031] But it's all up margins, isn't it?

[1032] Do you ever play it out?

[1033] Like, where does this go?

[1034] Like, if the population keeps increasing, cities keep growing, you're in the food growing business.

[1035] Well, I, you know, I used to work in a pet store, so eventually the rats eat themselves.

[1036] You can't put a bunch of rats or hamsters are worse than rats.

[1037] Hamsters, you can't put a bunch of hamsters in a, in a terrarium or a aquarium for, you know, people to come and buy.

[1038] Because you put too many in there, you'll come back and half of them are dead.

[1039] They eat themselves?

[1040] They'll fucking kill each other.

[1041] Really?

[1042] Yeah.

[1043] Just from overpopulation?

[1044] They will turn on each other, and they will eat each other.

[1045] I've read a study once we were talking about rap population density studies that their behavior mirrors the behavior of high population cities, that you have a certain amount of mental illness that occurs, a certain amount of violence that occurs, yeah.

[1046] It's just a function of...

[1047] And then, you know, we would get in the shipment of the new hamsters this week, and I would have to take this aquarium, move it away, put a new aquarium there, put fresh shavings and stuff in it, and then move those hamsters and those.

[1048] in together that way.

[1049] If I put the new hamsters in with the old hamsters in their environment that they've been pissing in for a couple days, they fight.

[1050] You have to basically introduce them to a new environment, so there's new to all of them, and there's new smells, and then they won't fight as much.

[1051] So we need to start new countries, you're saying?

[1052] Correct.

[1053] That's the move.

[1054] Hey.

[1055] Where do we go?

[1056] Maybe with global warming, Greenland will be available.

[1057] Yeah.

[1058] Or we can just take all the garbage and pile.

[1059] compacted into bricks and make an island.

[1060] Ah.

[1061] Garbage island.

[1062] That's not a bad idea.

[1063] Something has to happen.

[1064] I patented that just now.

[1065] Copyright.

[1066] Yeah, I wonder.

[1067] You know, I wonder when you look at the human race is approaching 8 billion people.

[1068] Like, at what point in time do we all exhibit, like, is that the future of the human race?

[1069] It's like the worst aspects of urban living, just universally.

[1070] No, I think it's going to sort itself out.

[1071] I think it's going to end up coming to a head in some way.

[1072] And I don't know.

[1073] Civil War, meteor, virus, something will kind of...

[1074] Alien invasion.

[1075] Alien invasion, turn us into fuel.

[1076] Or the other concept is that when people live in these urban areas, they actually have less kids.

[1077] and that slowly population growth sort of declines naturally because people become obsessed with their careers and you know that doesn't seem to be happening it is happening in some places apparently it's like Japan has an issue with that right now and some different cities do have they don't have the sustainable population for their future of what they're doing yeah that's the the thought is that people are having so few children that ultimately at one point in time you're going to see a population decline and that there's going to be this sort of an implosion like Elon's actually talked about that the importance of having children you know like so many people aren't having children that live in these urban areas that you're going to see a collapse I'm you know I'm I'm sure there's a mathematician out there that can say okay for every person how many kids should I have one two right you know So if between my wife and I, there's two kids, is that enough?

[1078] That seems like enough.

[1079] One.

[1080] But if you only have one, then naturally you're going to have a decline.

[1081] Two people have one kid, you've got a decline.

[1082] That's a lot of what's going on.

[1083] And maybe some people are not having kids at all because they're dedicated to their careers.

[1084] Okay, it makes sense.

[1085] Yeah.

[1086] Voucher system.

[1087] Voucher.

[1088] Well, then you've got the government involved telling people what to do and not to do.

[1089] That's never good.

[1090] sometimes it's okay you live in like how many people live in Jerome 500 Jesus that might be the way to go you like it huh but the the contrast between that and touring has got to be pretty cool but if you just live there with no touring you might get a little bored you know you got flagstaff to the north you got Sedona you've got Phoenix to the south right you can visit other spots yeah that's not that far away Prescott's a little hoppin little town.

[1091] It's pretty great.

[1092] Prescott's a hoppin little town?

[1093] Yeah, I mean, it's kind of cowboy, but it's, you know, got some fun activities.

[1094] There's one area, maybe it's Prescott, that's like one of the best places to observe the night sky.

[1095] Well, a lot of places are like that.

[1096] Jerome's amazing for that because there's definitely a light discipline as far as like an ordinance is about having too many lights on.

[1097] Is there?

[1098] Yeah.

[1099] So you can actually see it's like this.

[1100] It's crazy.

[1101] And it's just for that purpose?

[1102] I think, partially.

[1103] You can only do that in smaller areas.

[1104] Yeah, it's amazing.

[1105] Like, it's the stars in Arizona are incredible because there's less humidity in the air.

[1106] So that just that less humidity in the air doesn't like kind of disperse the light.

[1107] So it's focused.

[1108] You can see all the stars and you can see the Milky Way.

[1109] Oh, yeah.

[1110] You can tell, you can tell when that that's Venus, you can tell that that's Venus, you know.

[1111] that's a planet that's a star that's the beautiful thing about living in a place where it doesn't have light pollution is it's like there's a humbling aspect to staring out of the cosmos that really lets you know like hey we're a part of this enormous impossibly big thing yeah and it's not just about your career it's not just about you know your credit card debt and you know how much you go on your car the noise of the big city can kind of drown a lot of that out you don't really the noise and the light I mean, it's not a, that environment where you have extreme light pollution and no access to the stars is, it's very unnatural and very unusual in terms of a human history.

[1112] It's never happened before up until the last couple hundred years with the invention of electricity and the Industrial Revolution.

[1113] Yeah, I never really think of that, yeah.

[1114] They didn't have that.

[1115] so people had sort of a there was a humbling aspect to the night that allowed people to just like get a perspective and also just the beauty and the majesty of the sky and the looking at the cosmos and looking at the Milky Way it put things into focus in a way that I don't think people in cities have access to now no come visit the desert did you ever see anything up there in the sky Look at that.

[1116] Where's that?

[1117] Prescott.

[1118] That's Prescott.

[1119] So is it Prescott?

[1120] Is that the place?

[1121] I don't know.

[1122] I was trying to find that specifically.

[1123] Prescott.

[1124] Say it right.

[1125] I'm sorry.

[1126] Prescott.

[1127] Prescott, like biscuit, Prescott, Arizona.

[1128] You'll get yelled at by the locals.

[1129] Well, fuck them.

[1130] That's what you want to yell at me about?

[1131] That's beautiful, though.

[1132] Yeah, it's insane.

[1133] And that's pretty much what I see at night is.

[1134] It looks that good.

[1135] Yeah, well, sometimes like that, one of those, go down on that one there, you can see the Milky Waymore.

[1136] yeah wow so that you know that that's you know when you're at night on my porch that's I can see that you ever see that's a little intense because if they've definitely like it's done more of a time lap so it's kind of like really sunk in but like on on your average night in Arizona I can see I can see all those things wow that's fucking amazing yeah do you ever see some weird shit flying around uh well I didn't um I was abducted and um what you learn i learned that um i don't like butt stuff um allegedly um i don't know that i don't really see anything there i haven't seen anything weird or you know you know kind of extraterrestrial in nature that i that i know of i may be looking right at a thing and i didn't know that it was a thing but uh i don't know i'm just i'm so enamored with that sky that uh that to me was like, that's ex of trust around off for me just to see that.

[1137] Just a majesty.

[1138] Were you living in Arizona, Arizona, when the Phoenix Lights thing happened?

[1139] Yeah, that was there.

[1140] Yeah.

[1141] No idea what that was.

[1142] You know, one of those things where...

[1143] Did you ever see any of it?

[1144] No, I didn't, I didn't see.

[1145] I saw videos of it, but I didn't see it.

[1146] Do you know anybody who saw in it?

[1147] Mm -mm.

[1148] That's a weird moment in urban history where, like, mass sightings in this one area.

[1149] You know, I think of...

[1150] I might have talked about this with you at some point.

[1151] Like, to me, it's almost like it's, I feel like as we go forward in time, maybe there's some kind of technology that allows us to look back in time.

[1152] You pay your fee at Disneyland, and you can go put the goggles on, and it, like, it opens a portal in a time frame where you're just allowed to look.

[1153] You can just look, you can't touch.

[1154] But then if you're paying attention, and you see the dude looking.

[1155] Right, you see the portal occasionally.

[1156] Yeah, the portal occasionally.

[1157] And it's just a remote viewing from a future time when they can actually, like, peak.

[1158] They can't metal, they can't touch, they can just look.

[1159] And it's just an anomaly in our simulation.

[1160] I was reading this thing about quantum computing today, and you could probably relate to this because you've done some music with the Fibonacci sequence.

[1161] and where they entered the Fibonacci sequence into quantum computing, and they found it had something to do, it had something to do with different ways that time expresses itself.

[1162] So you can find this, because I'm going to butcher this.

[1163] But I was reading it, and I remember here it is.

[1164] Scientists fed the Fibonacci sequence into a quantum computer, and something strange happened.

[1165] You can have the system behave as if there are two distinct directions of time.

[1166] I think it's just a matter of time before they figure something like that out.

[1167] But should we?

[1168] We're going to.

[1169] Aren't there movies that start this way?

[1170] There are, but there are movies that start that way because we understand how the human mind works.

[1171] This constant lust for technological innovation is never going to be quenched.

[1172] Right.

[1173] And I think if we continue to stay alive, we're going to come up with something that's going to change everything about the way we interact with reality.

[1174] And it's probably going to happen within our lifetime.

[1175] It seems like the exponential.

[1176] Yeah.

[1177] And I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing.

[1178] It probably depends on who's at the wheel.

[1179] It's a thing.

[1180] Yeah.

[1181] Good or bad is, you know, relative.

[1182] But I think it's going to, we live in an amazing time because both things exist.

[1183] You have wine and you have farmers and people cultivating food and creating art. And you also have.

[1184] these disruptive technologies that are being implemented in a way that we really have no idea what the consequences are.

[1185] Yeah.

[1186] And it's all happening simultaneously.

[1187] Yeah.

[1188] And it makes the hikes in the mountains more attractive.

[1189] It makes the staring at the sky in Prescott more interesting that you do live in these simultaneous sort of timelines.

[1190] Yeah.

[1191] That's a good thought.

[1192] Yeah.

[1193] Well, you're not going to stop it.

[1194] You know, I was having this conversation with my kids one night at dinner recently.

[1195] We were saying, like, if we just stop making new stuff right now, life's pretty good.

[1196] If we said all the phones that we have right now, we'll know more iPhone 14 is the end of the, that's the end of the line.

[1197] Just keep making them and keep fixing them, and that's it.

[1198] We don't need anything new.

[1199] But we'll never do that.

[1200] And then we're all just talking about it.

[1201] Like, yeah, you're right.

[1202] That's why we're like in a constant state of invading some other area that has some natural resources.

[1203] is because we've got to get to the 16, right?

[1204] Yeah, got to get to the Tesla that goes zero to 60 instantaneously that, you know, operates on some fucking gravity drive that allows you to punch a hole through space and time and pop up in Australia and a half a second.

[1205] It's coming.

[1206] Just need a Subaru brat, man. You'll get there.

[1207] Well, I'd imagine where you live, robust vehicles are probably very valuable.

[1208] Yeah, I have an old 73 FJ Oh yeah, those are the best FJ 40?

[1209] Yep Yeah, and it's Of course we redid it It's like a V8 engine in it G's like an LS swap Is that what they did?

[1210] Like an LSV8 Like a Chevy Probably A GM Yeah, it's a pretty amazing thing Those are beautiful cars man Those FJ 40s Like Icon Out of California Makes those Where they do the the V8 swap and it's just when you're in one of them it's just they're so satisfying it's so mechanical and yeah everything about it is like it speaks to you and it's so robust and yeah mine has little ammo boxes that yeah is that we have one of those yeah yeah yeah that's how you get around yeah that that keeps you grounded yeah I mean you know is it a manual no it's automatic I'm a pussy yeah I know yeah I know but Why didn't you get a manual?

[1211] Because I, you know, I'm lazy.

[1212] Yeah, see that one right there, 350 powered?

[1213] There's my, the other one, the tan one.

[1214] That's you?

[1215] Yeah, that's kind of one I have.

[1216] Those are gorgeous.

[1217] There's something about those.

[1218] It's like, that's like one of the coolest shapes that people have ever figured out for sort of an industrial vehicle or a farming vehicle.

[1219] That's perfect for a farm.

[1220] Yeah.

[1221] Do you not fix it, or do you hire someone to do it?

[1222] I got guys to fix it.

[1223] But, like, you know, as far as, you know, I still have the old Subaru brat, and so I haven't done.

[1224] You were kidding.

[1225] You really do have a Superabrat.

[1226] My wife stole it for the 24 hours of Lemons races.

[1227] What the fuck is that?

[1228] It's, it's, that's your homework.

[1229] Fuck Lamonts.

[1230] Is that it?

[1231] Fuck, yeah, man. That's hilarious.

[1232] Is the El Camino of Japanese cars?

[1233] Yep.

[1234] but I you know that was one of my first cars so I knew how to change out the alternator fix the clutch cable like I can fix I can fix that one to a point I would have to have a friend come in and help me if I had to rebuild an engine on it yeah I would have to like go to another friend but I can fix that the new cars and stuff like no I'm lost no one can I mean you have to really have a fucking education in computers like the weirdest thing about cars today They're having a hard time finding chips for them.

[1235] It's like it's hard to buy a new car.

[1236] Some of the new cars, there's like a back order because they don't have chips.

[1237] Right.

[1238] Because everything relies on some sort of a centralized computer.

[1239] You know what?

[1240] Doesn't have a chip?

[1241] No. Does that 73 Toyota with the V8?

[1242] Does that have a chip?

[1243] Well, no, I think the engine is just old enough to where maybe it doesn't.

[1244] Oh, okay.

[1245] I would have to ask my guys.

[1246] Because a lot of the new ones, they actually do have a, unfortunately.

[1247] Do you have a computer that powers it?

[1248] Probably is, yeah.

[1249] Yeah, because if you L .S. swap, they have, like, an ECU that sort of runs over the same.

[1250] Most likely it is that.

[1251] Still.

[1252] Like, those older Japanese cars are the very best cars when it comes to, like, robustness.

[1253] Like, those Toyota FJs, the FJ 60s, the 62s.

[1254] Yeah, my dad, back in the day, like, 1973, the original little, it's not even the Tacoma, it's just the Toyota truck.

[1255] that thing back in 1973 he had it for decades the thing had like one million miles on it or something insane yeah they're very valuable today because of that reason because people realize like this is kind of fucking unique that these things are that that robust they can last for so long I think by the time he actually he had sold it to a guy sold it to a guy and they actually took it to the dump and like they picked it up and it broke in half because like the engine was still good 500 ,000 miles I think was on it and but the frame was gone like it was you know rot it out foot through the floor yeah Fred Flintstone down the road yeah but all that stuff can be repaired yeah it's just to be in a place like yours and to have those kind of vehicle it's gotta be very grounding for you you driving around that farm and yeah you can't have a try I have friends to show up and go hey man let's you know I want to go out and check out the vineyard and I look at it.

[1256] They're kind of like, yeah.

[1257] Not in that thing.

[1258] Hop in.

[1259] How big is your vineyard?

[1260] How many acres is it?

[1261] I have 80 acres in southern Arizona.

[1262] I have several sites up in northern Arizona.

[1263] A two acre, a three acre, a four acre, a 30 acre, and a five acre.

[1264] And how do you pick these areas that you're going to acquire?

[1265] Available water.

[1266] Paying attention to water rights, ditch rights.

[1267] groundwater rights and you expand based on the need yeah and so like and just expense I mean there's a huge expense in terms of vineyards so let's you know just quick math let's assume you own a piece of land and depending on where that land is it's going to be a different price like if you buy an acre of land in the Verdi Valley it's going to be $50 to $100 ,000 for an acre of empty land now you're going to put power and water on it.

[1268] So if you're getting a vineyard, you're not going to do an acre, you're going to do 20 acres or whatever.

[1269] So Southern Arizona, maybe 15 grand an acre, maybe 10.

[1270] So depending of where you're going to do it.

[1271] So let's say you own the land, you've already paid whatever that number is.

[1272] Now you're going to make sure that there's power and water to that.

[1273] So let's say you've got it graded, you've got power, and you've got water on it.

[1274] That's a huge expense just by itself, right?

[1275] Just to plant, an acre of vineyards is about $30 ,000 an acre.

[1276] So with that 10 -acre site, you're already up to $300 ,000, you know, dollars, right?

[1277] But the vines don't produce fruit for four years.

[1278] Whoa.

[1279] So you're not going to see your first grape.

[1280] And even if you get your grape, now you've got to wait, you know, you got to make it, you got to age it, you got to bottle you got to sell it so from your first assuming you own the acres and assuming you have power and water and it's been graded and you're $30 ,000 in for your first for that first planting that first year you're not going to see your first dollar for at least six seven years so when you acquired your first farm was it an existing winery no the the land that I planted the Judas block on I planted that vineyard and I was sourcing fruit from other vineyards for a while.

[1281] How long did you think about doing that before you actually pull the trigger?

[1282] I was kind of mulling it over from starting around 99, 2000.

[1283] Wow.

[1284] And then I planted my first vineyards in 2003.

[1285] Were you like, what the fuck am I doing?

[1286] Yes.

[1287] I'm still today in this very moment.

[1288] I'm wondering what the fuck did I do and what am I doing.

[1289] How many people do you have working for you now?

[1290] If you have that many different farms running some...

[1291] Between Pusufor, the Pusufor store, you know, all of our distribution people, our retail people are behind the scenes, you know, seller workers.

[1292] I'm about 110 families that we employ.

[1293] Wow.

[1294] Around Arizona.

[1295] And so when you develop a piece of land, it's like if, say, if you want to start and expand into a new piece of land, who do you have this person have to relocate there do you have someone that can commute to the spot and make sure it's running okay for the four years well so down you know down in southern Arizona Jesse lives on site with his wife and we have you know a couple full -time people and if you're farming it properly you need seasonal work you need people to come in and like a large number of people to come in and prune a large number of people to come in and do um shoot then and blah, blah, blah, and then for picking, of course, you've got that season.

[1296] You have people around that you have to do the pick, and you have to work with a labor contractor to make sure that you have those numbers of people there to do that.

[1297] But annually, year -round, those two or three people are on site all year -round.

[1298] I would imagine that is always in the back of your head, that you have all these different moving parts going on constantly.

[1299] Yeah.

[1300] How do you rest?

[1301] you just you either do what you don't right you just rest you know but that's a lot of a lot of noise constantly yeah yeah that's why you watch teladding your nights and fall asleep God from the time that you started doing that did you ever imagine that it would be what it is now no I thought it was going to be a much smaller thing it's still a pretty small thing but as far as all the moving parts and all the beautiful things we've got that we've accomplished um no regrets i think we're doing there's a pretty cool thing we're doing it is very cool that's when i really started getting interested in you honestly when i found out about uh your vineyard i was like oh what a fucking weird guy yeah he's doing that there's a you know there's a couple people in my in our genre uh not even really our genre just like musicians that there's a couple people that are doing stuff I think pink is involved in her wine production in some way but I'm you know other than her and a couple people not anybody you hear that has a wine label generally speaking is they're just putting their name on it or they have somebody doing it for them and they might be kind of involved but they're not they're not as involved as I am no that's just it's so involved it's do you ever not doing music and just doing that?

[1302] Do you think you're always going to be doing everything?

[1303] I think I'll be doing everything.

[1304] I don't really see any reason to give up either one because they can coexist.

[1305] There's definitely time for both, especially if you're organized like I am and create those spaces for creating music and touring, but knowing that it's not up to you when it's harvest season, this is harvest season.

[1306] So I like that balance of like, I had to respond to what Mother Nature says on this.

[1307] this front but on the music side i can kind of have a little more flexibility and and uh and create when the spirit moves me it has to be a wild challenge though to figure out how to scale that like as it was happening and grow like how did you figure out how to make it all work i don't know that i have yet you know we're just we're we're we're we're figuring it out still wow it's um it's very complex but it's It makes for a very unique experience, I would imagine, in life that you have.

[1308] Well, again, like, going back to, like, you started this thing, and seven years later, and then I put that wine in a bottle, and I try to forget about that bottle, to then open that bottle another 10 years later to go, oh, fuck, man, that's, I did that.

[1309] Yeah.

[1310] And there's a time when you should open it, too, right?

[1311] Depends on the grape, honestly, you know.

[1312] How do you know?

[1313] You don't.

[1314] I mean, especially in an area that we're growing and the grapes that we're not quite sure about yet.

[1315] There's definitely things in wine that help it be an ageable wine or that won't fall apart right away.

[1316] But, you know, there's some, there's chemical things you can kind of figure out, like, what do we think might age better.

[1317] but until you actually open that bottle 15 years later you don't you don't really know you think you might know but you don't know have you ever heard of a book called the immortality key there's a guy named brian burrowrescu who became obsessed with the lucidian mysteries and the ancient greeks who drank wine and invented democracy and invented all these different things in this like one particular area of enlightenment.

[1318] And he started studying this and found very distinct evidence that the wine, what they were calling wine back then, was wine that was mixed in with a bunch of different things.

[1319] And a lot of it was like ergot.

[1320] And a lot of it was psychedelic compounds.

[1321] Probably, yeah.

[1322] Through this, they've actually developed a field of study at Harvard through his work.

[1323] And he came on the podcast and talked about it, and it sort of opened up this field of study is that the book is really fascinating because he was obsessed with this for decades and studied it for a long time and then they eventually found physical evidence in these old wine vessels.

[1324] Okay.

[1325] Because it would be there.

[1326] Like that's the cool thing about those, there's always going to be some chamber that's going to be unearthed that nobody knew was there.

[1327] And if it's grace or, you know, early Roman time, whatever, there's going to be wine in it.

[1328] thing.

[1329] There's some bottles in there.

[1330] Wine was, wine was, like, fermented grapes, but it was mixed in with a bunch of other stuff.

[1331] Yeah.

[1332] Like, that was what they used to, when we think of wine, we think of what you make.

[1333] But what you make is not just the grapes, right?

[1334] Like, not just fermented grapes.

[1335] There's stuff in there.

[1336] No, no, it's all, it's just grapes.

[1337] But you add, you add some sort of yeast or?

[1338] Well, yeah.

[1339] I mean, well, no, the yeast already exists, it exists on the grapes.

[1340] And so our fermentation process is kick -started by the yeast that exists on those grapes.

[1341] So I just do wild -ferments.

[1342] I don't add yeast.

[1343] Some instances I do, depending on the fruit coming in, and if I'm observing, there's going to be maybe some problems with that particular batch of fruit.

[1344] Yeah, maybe I'll do an inoculation for that thing.

[1345] But we're 95 % wild -ferments.

[1346] But I do also do mead, which is honey.

[1347] water, east.

[1348] So we do that fermentation to do canned.

[1349] I think it brought you some.

[1350] Yes, you did.

[1351] We had some at your austerea.

[1352] It was amazing.

[1353] It was really wild tasting, like different than anything I think I'd ever drank before.

[1354] Yeah, but that we also were about to can it, but I actually did a fermentation with the mead where I did one with lavender, one with hibiscus, one with bergamot, and one with star jasmine.

[1355] Just to see what that would lend as far as a floral nature.

[1356] in that in that mead we'll see haven't we haven't actually canned it yet to see how that went but you also have like a natural sparkling like a white wine yeah the the the the the pet nat we call it it's an ancient method of letting the letting the wine finish fermentation in a in a bottle so it's kind of like champagne yeah but different but more different tasting it was yeah Kind of more complex.

[1357] Yeah, I think some, you know, if you're a champagne person versus like an Italian sparkling, now I'm getting all geeky with people that are wine drinkers, but what we're doing in Arizona is far more like a filtered ancient method Italian sparkling, because it's Malveccia and Chardonnay 50 -50.

[1358] So it's, if people are, for people listening, if you're wondering what kind of sparkling, I'm doing, that's a pet nat.

[1359] It's very much in an Italian sparkling approach rather than a champagne.

[1360] The reason why I brought up the Brian Murray Rescue book, because I've always been fascinated, like, if that was what wine used to be, that wine was the fermented grapes mixed in with psychedelics and all these other compounds that they're sort of discovering, when did modern what we think of as wine now, which is like what you make, when did that start?

[1361] No idea.

[1362] Yeah.

[1363] Yeah.

[1364] It could very well be some kind of way before pre -prohibition kind of stuff in Europe.

[1365] I have no idea.

[1366] But, you know, I know that there's people that have done like botanicals where they're kind of doing almost like beer, beerish, winish botanical fermentations, various, you know, varying results, but I don't know.

[1367] That really researched it.

[1368] Did you ever see the documentary Sour Grapes?

[1369] Yeah.

[1370] Wild shit, right?

[1371] Yeah, that guy was amazing.

[1372] Crazy.

[1373] Yeah, that one of my good friends is in that documentary.

[1374] I met that gentleman who got arrested.

[1375] I met him at a wine tasting.

[1376] Me too.

[1377] Did you?

[1378] Me too, yeah.

[1379] I was with Peter Gago from Penfolds.

[1380] They were doing a whole Penfolds, Australian wine dinner at the Australian Consulate's house or whatever.

[1381] And that guy was sitting right here.

[1382] What was his name again?

[1383] I don't remember his name.

[1384] it was right at the tip of my it was like an american name um i met him because my friend is a wine dork and he he had a birthday party so i went to his i want to say it's 2003 and uh we all were sitting around and they would serve this incredible food with flights of wine and uh they'd all brought their own wine they were popping corks and rudy rudy yeah he's out now yeah yeah his his you know never mind the shady shit he was up to that's you know that's why you went to prison buddy but his palate and his ability to mimic those things was fucking otherworldly it's he was really good at that thing and his and his perception of things in that bottle in that glass to be able to reproduce that the way he did was well that was that was why i brought it up like did he reproduce it accurately like enough enough to full complex palettes just enough because you know there's there's bottle variation on things so it could be like oh this one doesn't quite taste like the ones I've had before right right and that could be expressed in legitimate bottles yeah like from 2000 what to 2000 this and yeah different climate different yeah weather was different that year yeah the funny part was like people that were totally duped yeah like What?

[1385] Yeah.

[1386] No, mine are cool.

[1387] I'm not a dupe.

[1388] Well, it was funny, the people who are self -professed wine experts were like, this one's real.

[1389] And then another guy would come along and go, this is garbage.

[1390] I'm like, well, how can there be such a varying opinion amongst people that are actually one?

[1391] There's always been that kind of like, you know, you can't taste how expensive a wine is.

[1392] Well, no, of course you can't taste how expensive a wine is.

[1393] But there are guys who are really good at identifying.

[1394] right down to the year and the producer by what they're tasting in a glass.

[1395] And it's like, I think it's fucking, it's voodoo.

[1396] It's like, it's incredible how they can do that.

[1397] They can narrow it down.

[1398] And that's, of course, from an established region that has a history that there's, you can kind of track it to a point through time and having maybe had that wine.

[1399] And they have that fucking lockbox.

[1400] Yeah.

[1401] They can log that shit away.

[1402] and it's like a, you know, steel trap of recollection of those things.

[1403] Those guys are incredible.

[1404] Yeah, I've talked to Somaliers that's claimed to be able to do that.

[1405] And I've tried to get it from them.

[1406] Like, what are you doing?

[1407] Like, how are you doing that?

[1408] Like, what is it about a while?

[1409] Like, you can drink it and say...

[1410] There's a checklist.

[1411] And that they go through.

[1412] It's a very rigorous drilling of a checklist of things that they identify.

[1413] The first thing they identify, the second thing they identify.

[1414] And it's not...

[1415] You know, it's more like, okay, when I walk into, when I pull into your parking lot, is this a house or is this an industrial complex or is this a barn or is this an airport?

[1416] Well, it's an industrial complex.

[1417] Okay, now, is there parking?

[1418] Yes, there's parking.

[1419] Okay.

[1420] When we walk in, is it, you know, so you're going through this checklist of just super general shit down to very specific things.

[1421] Have you tried to learn that?

[1422] Fuck, no, man. I got way too much shit that I had to do.

[1423] with that shit but i would imagine like in making wine like you do there you have to have some sort of a palette yeah but you know at the same time i i don't have to sound like lead zeppelin it just has to sound like me so i'm only expressing these grapes are going to tell me what they're going to do and i'm going to try to get out of the way to make sure that these grapes grow from grapes to wine and i'm going to do everything that i know how to do it to get out of the way to make sure that thing is that thing.

[1424] Now, me describing in that thing to you, like a psalm describes it, I can't do that for you.

[1425] But I can get out of the way to make it get to the thing that you can describe.

[1426] That's your job.

[1427] But when you decided to do this in 2000, you must have had some sort of an esoteric appreciation.

[1428] Yes, 100%.

[1429] I just couldn't describe that to you, and I couldn't map out what year was what wine.

[1430] I could just tell you that everything about this wine is inspirational in some way whether it's like at the age on it the acid structure something all the all the pistons were firing in terms of like all the sensory alarms that are going off in my mouth the length of the experience like how it's changing in the glass yeah that was very inspiring to me as far as actually being able to map that out for you I'm an idiot I couldn't do it did you go through any sort of education in terms of, like, what is involved in the creation of a wine that you appreciate?

[1431] I just thought time in cellar, like spending time in Adelaide Hills at the penfolds for a very short amount of time, seeing it happening around the world, going to wineries while on tour, while they're trying to time it where I can go when they're going to actually harvest today to see what's the equipment you're using?

[1432] What are you doing?

[1433] Like, how are you doing this thing?

[1434] Like, when did that spark get ignited?

[1435] Like, what?

[1436] 99.

[1437] So it was like right before you started.

[1438] So before that, were you a wine connoisseur?

[1439] Were you a wine appreciator?

[1440] I started appreciating wine maybe around 96.

[1441] Really?

[1442] Yeah.

[1443] So just a few years later, you own a vineyard?

[1444] Yeah.

[1445] That's crazy.

[1446] Yeah, it just resonated.

[1447] Whatever it was, it clicked.

[1448] Right?

[1449] It's like, you know, going back to, I was talking to Donald today, like he walked into Hickson's place on Pico back in the day.

[1450] Henry Ankins walked in the same week that I walked in to Hickson's Academy back in 95.

[1451] Henry Aiken's is one of the best black belts I've ever met.

[1452] I can barely tie my belt.

[1453] So it resonated with him.

[1454] It resonated with him.

[1455] It made sense to him.

[1456] It clicked and it went.

[1457] And there's no way you can figure out what that is to make, you know, make him what he is.

[1458] I was not that guy.

[1459] I had to work harder at it.

[1460] Wine was like I'd been doing it my whole life.

[1461] Almost instantly.

[1462] It made sense.

[1463] And then slowly backing up and understanding the chemistry of it, working with people to go action -reaction and logging that in to develop that constantly.

[1464] But the process, just the basic logistics of making wine made sense to me almost instantaneously.

[1465] And this was for, from 96 like when no my first wine that you know actually was involved in making who was 2004 oh but but in 96 when you first started getting interested in it you went to a vineyard you it was just dinners like you're you know you start to all of a sudden went from a dude who you know woke and grew up in a you know lower middle class family with teachers on you know teach uh parents are a teacher budget you know cutting with for the winter to being on tour with a band and all of a sudden I can afford a bottle of wine that was more than $50, you know, going, oh, this is cool.

[1466] Seeing all the, all the agents and the lawyers and the fucking promoter and the manager and the fucking accountant all backstage having a nice glass of wine while I'm drinking Bud Light over here, going, what the fuck's that?

[1467] And I want to know.

[1468] And I grabbed a glass and tried it and went, this is the new thing.

[1469] This is something I want to know about.

[1470] And when was the first time you actually went to a...

[1471] Do you remember the first vineyard you visited while they were doing all that?

[1472] I want to say it was like 97, I think.

[1473] In 98.

[1474] It was Pegasus Bay in New Zealand.

[1475] In New Zealand?

[1476] Watching the process, watching...

[1477] No, that was...

[1478] I think they were doing San Blanc, I think.

[1479] It might have been Pino.

[1480] I think it was Pino.

[1481] but they were destemming and I was watching the stemming process going okay okay machine I can afford a machine and you just thought one day I'm gonna do that yeah and then the wheels started getting into motion yeah wow how many people around you're going Maynard what the fuck are you doing all of them all it just seems like such a fucking intensive complicated endeavor yeah but it's rewarding it's work you're you're grounding there's setup there's cleanup there's logistics like tim and i are like the logistics nazis like we it's we have to there's there's a way to do it to not get in your own way to understand the 16 steps like today dealing with that triangle i kept getting my foot caught up and trying to get the leg around the head because I was getting in my own way I didn't I didn't shift enough to make it so that I wasn't in my own way right in the cellar I'm not in my own way I'm thinking five steps ahead and I'm not going to put a thing down in the way that I have to move and add six steps to get into the next step and this is a thing that you get better at with I get better at with every with every harvest but I was already naturally inclined that way as far as legit like Tetris is my thing hmm wow That's wild because there's nothing like that in my mind that I'm fascinated by that I would want to go and start developing a company that makes these things.

[1482] It seems like it's just so rare that something like light bulb goes off and you're like, I need a wine press.

[1483] Yeah.

[1484] Wow.

[1485] So when you like crack open a bottle of wine today, do you ever?

[1486] open one and go I should have waited I mean yeah there's there's those instances or I open up some of some of my some stuff from before and go yeah I I fuck that up this is a good bottle it's okay but I know that I could have done better on this bottle and what would you have done to do better what it depends on the grade depends on what I did and like depends on the thing but you know there's adjustments that I've made over the years that have made it so that there's a there's a higher percentage of success for that for that year for that what are those variables it's all depends on the grape depends on we picked it depends on what it did was too much oak is it not enough oak you know oak in the casket yeah well in the can you know when you're putting stuff in barrel is it too new is there too much flavor i mean imparting too much flavor on the on the wine not going back and tasting some of the stuff i early did it's because they were new i just bought the barrels so there there's a lot of oak on some of the earlier wines that i did um that it's not there and now that's not there and now that's because now they're older barrels and no longer imparting that flavor of oak.

[1487] So in hindsight, I, you know, I can't change it.

[1488] It's done.

[1489] Right.

[1490] But I might have.

[1491] Age the barrels?

[1492] Yeah.

[1493] Get more, like get a couple new, but buy some neutral ones from somebody instead.

[1494] So that, like, there was just a kiss of oak on it rather than a lot of new oak.

[1495] So there's a company that specializes in creating barrels?

[1496] No, you just go, you go to some of the other wineries that are cycling through some of their barrels, and you can buy used barrels from a reputable wineries there.

[1497] Oh, because I was going to ask you next, do you reuse your barrels?

[1498] I use as much as I possibly can because I don't necessarily want the oak influence on the wine.

[1499] Does the wine that was in the barrel influence future wines?

[1500] No, you're rinsing it out pretty good.

[1501] You're cleaning them out.

[1502] What do you clean it with?

[1503] Steam.

[1504] So there's no chemicals or no nothing, just water?

[1505] Steam and water, yeah.

[1506] Wow.

[1507] How the fuck do you have time for all this?

[1508] I just don't understand this.

[1509] Logistical time management.

[1510] I understand, but I don't understand where it's coming from.

[1511] I'm looking at a clock.

[1512] I'm going, okay, this goes around.

[1513] There's 12 of those, and then there's another 12.

[1514] Like, where the fuck is the time?

[1515] Yeah, organizational skills.

[1516] Do you ever anticipate doing anything else with this sort of, the amount that's involved?

[1517] No, I think, because when it comes to, like, my Tim and I are probably going to develop a gin.

[1518] But that will be 100 % us just coming up with a label, coming up with a concept, coming up with maybe a recipe, and then handing that to some house.

[1519] I don't even know what gin is.

[1520] I know it's an alcohol.

[1521] I have no idea what you make it out of.

[1522] Well, depending on the June, it can be grain -based, but I'm probably going to go more for a molasses -based spirit.

[1523] Melasses?

[1524] You ferment the molasses to give you the spirit.

[1525] Is that a common thing for gin?

[1526] and some of my favorite ones are a lot of it ends up being more the green you know green based but there's also people that have done honey.

[1527] Honey gin?

[1528] Yeah.

[1529] So what gin is like what when you're saying gin?

[1530] I know it's an alcohol.

[1531] Juniper is the key ingredient to it.

[1532] To make it a gin juniper is one of the botanicals that comes into either during the distillation process or post distillation juniper is involved but you can also do other things and other botanicals things and to make it a more unique gin.

[1533] Now, what about tequila?

[1534] Tequila is agave, but I don't really, I don't know the process on tequila that much.

[1535] I'd like to know, but I think gin is more, it's going to be more accessible to me, because just the process of, you know, the over -farming and tearing up land to fucking put in agave, I don't know what that sounds like.

[1536] Over -farming?

[1537] Yeah, just like, I'm not, you know, I've heard rumors of, like, just, like, just, like, I'm not, you know, I've heard just, fucking tearing through Mexico and fucking up entire landscapes to deal with, like, the agave thing is a, it's a controversial subject.

[1538] Oh, really?

[1539] I think so.

[1540] What I was reading about was.

[1541] I'm trying to, like, to hurt it.

[1542] And I was like, I don't want to, I don't want to hear about it right now.

[1543] I got other shit to think about.

[1544] I was reading about the health aspects of tequila, that tequila actually has a probiotic benefit to it and that it has less sugar in it.

[1545] so people find it to be more healthy than drinking other forms of alcohol?

[1546] Maybe.

[1547] I mean, you know, I suppose me not having five of those one night is probably not the smartest thing.

[1548] Yeah.

[1549] You know, waking up the next day going not feeling very probiotic.

[1550] Right.

[1551] But, you know, if you exercise restraint, which I'm not sure I know that word, but, yeah, restraint.

[1552] Do you do anything to recover from hangover specifically?

[1553] Do you have sort of a routine?

[1554] You know, water, just a lot of water, the sauna.

[1555] You know, there's some stuff you'll drink.

[1556] Electrolites.

[1557] You know, I do the old school British, you know, Baraka, if I have to.

[1558] What's that?

[1559] It's like a fizzy, like vitamin C, multivitamin, fizy thing.

[1560] You drink with water, you know, if it dissolves in the water.

[1561] So it's just a vitamin sort of.

[1562] Yeah, yeah.

[1563] That stuff.

[1564] Oh, we have some.

[1565] Yep, there it is.

[1566] Does that work?

[1567] Yeah.

[1568] Well, I mean, the best thing for a hangover is, drinking heavily the night before, then you'll for sure get a hangover.

[1569] If you want to avoid the hangover, don't drink heavily the night before.

[1570] It just is what it is.

[1571] It just is what it is.

[1572] So, you know, just exercise restraint and drink a lot of water when you're drinking.

[1573] Like, if I'm going to have tequila, I have to force myself to be double -fisted.

[1574] Water in one hand, drink in the other, so that way I'm hydrating as I'm drinking.

[1575] Right.

[1576] Because a lot of it's it's the dehydration that's fucking with you so that's why the electrolytes in the next morning help and just you know pounding water during the process just in the process and the next day resign yourself to the fact you're going to pee a lot yes yeah yes do you have a hard time keeping up with the demand because i would imagine you can only grow so much wine yeah yeah we're doing we're doing great with respect to that we're right we're at the balance of what we can produce and what we sell.

[1577] It's a nice spot to be in.

[1578] So you're like at that, but do you feel pressure to expand?

[1579] We want to expand because a healthy wine region has a healthy bulk wine market.

[1580] So if I can make wine out of all those grapes, but I only need 80 % of it, I sell my 20 % of juice to other winemakers just so they can supplement their programs.

[1581] That's a healthy in winemaking environment.

[1582] Like the, you're familiar with the wine, the prisoner?

[1583] No. Okay.

[1584] You know the prisoner?

[1585] Oh, the one that has like the mug shots on it?

[1586] No, it's got a guy in chains.

[1587] It's a very popular bottle of wine called the prisoner.

[1588] You know it?

[1589] For the most part, that was all bulk wine.

[1590] That's a California project that took off that made fucking distributors and people.

[1591] That's it?

[1592] A shitload of money.

[1593] because the person was just basically going around initially to just get bulk wine from all these different houses that had bulk wine that put a cool blend together and it was priced perfectly and you know wholesalers made a shitload of money on that thing because it was it was a it hit but it was bulk wine it wasn't some weirdo like me in a cellar making wine hmm so the that's the person that doesn't actually actually even own a vineyard.

[1594] They're just getting...

[1595] There's a lot of that.

[1596] Like, in California, there's, like, people that don't own a vineyard, don't even own a winery.

[1597] They're just, like, putting together in a house or doing a, they're producing a blend of wine from, from, uh, bulk wines and presenting you a bottle.

[1598] And, which is totally fine because it's, as long as it's label properly, that's a California red wine, okay?

[1599] That's, that's fine.

[1600] California red wine?

[1601] How do they even know, though, what it's going to taste like?

[1602] They're putting together, they're, because they're, they're only buying it if it goes with the blend.

[1603] So they're getting samples, sample, samples, blending, and then picking the samples, the blend, and buying that wine in bulk and putting it together.

[1604] Is this the most you've ever talked about wine in the two and a half hour period?

[1605] No. I can go for a long time.

[1606] I can bore the fuck.

[1607] I can put you all to sleep.

[1608] No, it's fascinating.

[1609] I'm fascinated by it.

[1610] I'm fascinated by anything that anybody is deeply interested in.

[1611] And it's clear that you're deeply interested in this.

[1612] Yeah, so to answer your question, I wouldn't mind expanding the vineyards so that I have flexibility because what happens if I get hail and it takes out half my vineyards?

[1613] If I have way more vineyards than I need, then I can kind of, in that year, I can kind of massage what I have, maybe use bulk wine from the year before to supplement into a blend.

[1614] But if I'm, if I've made all the grapes from the vineyard, we didn't get weather, that wine is always valuable to somebody else to sell as a bulk product.

[1615] Hale can take out half of your product.

[1616] Oh, yeah.

[1617] It fucking, It sucks.

[1618] Is there a way you can mitigate that?

[1619] But tarps over it or something?

[1620] Hail netting, yeah.

[1621] Hail netting.

[1622] Yeah, so it looks like bird netting, but it's hail net.

[1623] So it serves two purposes.

[1624] It combats the hail and birds.

[1625] Jesus.

[1626] It's expensive and looks weird.

[1627] There it is.

[1628] Hail.

[1629] Look at that.

[1630] And that just destroys everything.

[1631] Well, those vines are probably, if they're not dead completely, they're definitely not getting any grapes off those vines for the next three years.

[1632] Oh my God.

[1633] Yeah, and it could very well be that those vines are done, done, done.

[1634] I'm just overwhelmed by the amount of commitments involved in this and just I start thinking about my own head, like how I would handle this.

[1635] I'm like, I just, I couldn't.

[1636] Tequila.

[1637] Something.

[1638] Hey, we got hail.

[1639] Listen, man, you balance it out.

[1640] I don't know how you do it.

[1641] it's uh i think uh we kind of got a better perspective on what's involved for this through this conversation but i don't know how you do it it's a lot no i don't do it by myself yeah but you know you have to delegate and you have to have you have to trust trust people so if somebody wants to buy your wine what's the best uh retail outlet caduceus dot org is our is our website you can go buy it off of caduceus dot org and we ship to most states uh we're only in distribution in maybe 12 or 14 states.

[1642] You couldn't get it at a grocery store unless we're actually in that state.

[1643] Texas, we're in stores here in Texas, Colorado, you know, like Colorado, Arizona, California.

[1644] But the best way to get it is just to order it offline.

[1645] All right, that's what I'm going to do.

[1646] And if you want to review, you have to ask Drew Dober because I just sent him some wine.

[1647] Oh, really?

[1648] You sent some to Drew?

[1649] I love that, dude.

[1650] Yeah, we had a bet.

[1651] It went to the last fight, I said, if you win the fight, I'll send you wine.

[1652] If you lose the fight, you have to wear a shirt in public.

[1653] A caducea shirt?

[1654] Any shirt.

[1655] Any shirt.

[1656] Well, I found a bill of him.

[1657] I wouldn't wear shirts in public either.

[1658] No, shit.

[1659] I'm so jealous of this fucking...

[1660] That was the Terrence McKinney fight, right?

[1661] Yeah.

[1662] That was a wild fight.

[1663] It was a good fight.

[1664] Foo!

[1665] That was a crazy one.

[1666] That Terrence McKinney is wild.

[1667] Did you see the Sugar Sean fight?

[1668] Yes, I did.

[1669] Yeah.

[1670] The look on his face at the end, he was like, he normally runs his mouth pretty good as a good old Arizona boy, but like he had that look on his face like I did I win that that I win like he's well he was very honest he said I'm going to have to watch this yeah afterwards to see if if I actually won it yeah a lot of people were shocked yeah there's a video of Khabib watching the decision and Kibib's like how how how yeah how how yeah I yeah I was I was right there 50 I wasn't I wasn't sure because I I thought the other guy won, but I think the bigger takeaway is that he was in it.

[1671] Oh, he was certainly in it against Piotr Yon, who was a former champion, one of the best in the division by far, the number one contender.

[1672] It was a very close fight, and he definitely hurt Piotr in multiple occasions, caught him with that big knee, rocked him.

[1673] The question is how much is the takedown worth, how much is control worth?

[1674] Right.

[1675] I assume that when I saw all the takedowns, like, then Yan won, because there's a lot of takedowns.

[1676] Yeah, but takedowns without damage, it's like, what is that value?

[1677] I mean, and I'm not denying that I thought Peelter -Yan won, because I did think he won at the end of it.

[1678] But takedowns without damage versus stand -up with damage, because Sugar landed more strikes standing and had big moments.

[1679] Yon had some big moments, too, one big left hand that rocked him.

[1680] the question is like how much is the how valuable are those takedowns and how valuable is that top game and that control and that's that's way out of my you know the problem there's several problems but one of the problems is that I feel and I've said this ad nauseum that I feel that we were very limited by this 10 9 this 10 point must scoring system because someone can win around 10 9 and it can be a very close round and someone can win around 10 9 and someone can win around clearly and it could be 10 .9.

[1681] And that doesn't make any sense to me. And I feel like the system is designed for boxing and it's a good system for boxing.

[1682] I don't think it's a good system for MMA.

[1683] I think MMA needs a much more comprehensive system.

[1684] Like if a guy can hold you down with no damage at all for three minutes versus a guy who holds you down and damages you for 30 seconds, what's worth more?

[1685] You know, what hits you with three or four good hard shots?

[1686] Is that worth more?

[1687] Or is, like, the predominance of a round, like, if you spend the majority of a round on top of a guy, even if you're not damaging him, how much is that worth?

[1688] What are, how much is a leg kick worth?

[1689] How much is a submission worth?

[1690] Like, a submission attempt.

[1691] I think we need a much more comprehensive system that it doesn't, it's not 10 point must.

[1692] I don't think that's the right system for MMA.

[1693] I think it should be a completely different system.

[1694] We just sort of adopted the boxing system.

[1695] So like the first round of Al J. Stirling and T .J. Dillashaw, I mean, that is a fucking dominant round.

[1696] Like, what is that?

[1697] Is it a 10 -7?

[1698] Is it a 10 -6?

[1699] I mean, that's an all -algeman round.

[1700] He beat the shit out of T .J. Dillishaw.

[1701] Took him down, dominated him, took his back, beat the fuck out of him.

[1702] Like, what's that?

[1703] How do you score that round?

[1704] And, you know, how could that be better scored with a better system?

[1705] Right.

[1706] I think there's definitely room.

[1707] It was definitely when I feel like that, that UFC was probably my top five UFC ever.

[1708] It was amazing.

[1709] It was really good.

[1710] Jamie hooked it up from my iPad to a television through an HDMI connection in the O2 Arena.

[1711] We're in London.

[1712] We just did the show.

[1713] We had no idea what happened.

[1714] Luckily, we got offstage, ordered food, and Jamie set up the iPad to a big screen TV that was in the room.

[1715] We're all in there.

[1716] It was like 20 of us in there watching.

[1717] It was fucking incredible.

[1718] It was incredible He'll sue you No, he wanted me to He gave me the link to it I have a fight pass membership But that's how we watched it But it was such a good fight And then watching Islam And Charles Oliveira That was what a fight that was Islam Makachev must have The most incredible squeeze His squeeze His squeeze must be out of this world Because you see how quick Charles tapped once he clamped that on him.

[1719] I mean, poof.

[1720] He had all the points covered, and he just like, yeah, that dude is on another level.

[1721] I mean, I am, he is the truth.

[1722] I am so, I was always impressed with him.

[1723] But, I mean, I was saying leading up to him getting a shot at the world title, he's the boogeyman in that division.

[1724] He was the guy that everybody was saying, like, is the most dominant of all the contenders.

[1725] And then when he tapped over, that was a big one.

[1726] when he tapped Dan Hooker, that was a big one too.

[1727] It's like the way he's tapping these guys who are these world -class fighters and he's just fucking running through him.

[1728] But the fact that he got on Oliveira and mounted him and then submitted him with an arm triangle, head and arm choke like that.

[1729] Yeah, that's a statement.

[1730] He submitted the guy with the most submissions in the history of the sport.

[1731] And the way he did it was just he was so fucking methodical and dominant and Olivera tested him.

[1732] I mean, he got out of bad positions in the first round.

[1733] He got back up to his feet, hit him with some good shots.

[1734] But Makachev, he's the fucking truth.

[1735] You know, there's an interesting that he's going to fight Volcanovsky next.

[1736] That's kind of a crazy thing for Volcanovsky to go right up to 55 from 45.

[1737] Yeah.

[1738] I don't know.

[1739] You know, I'm interested in that because Volkanowski is, he's fucking amazing.

[1740] I mean, the fights with Holloway, especially the last fight with Holloway, we see the evolution of his game and he's gotten so much better.

[1741] Yeah, it's interesting.

[1742] Don't you have an iPad on stage with you sometimes?

[1743] Oh yeah.

[1744] While you're playing, you're watching the fights?

[1745] Yeah, yeah.

[1746] Because I want to know.

[1747] I mean, of course, it's fighter -specific.

[1748] There's people that I definitely pay attention to more than other fighters just because I want to see what happens because, you know, I want to, I just, I back these people's career.

[1749] I just want to know what's going to go on.

[1750] So I'll do, you know, I don't watch every UFC in that context.

[1751] But, you know, if I know Thug Rose is fighting, I'll iPad on the stage, I've got to see.

[1752] Nate Diaz, I'm going to have the iPad up there for sure.

[1753] No joke.

[1754] I think that's hilarious.

[1755] You're in the middle of a fucking wild concert and you've got an iPad sitting on the stage.

[1756] Why?

[1757] I know, it's awful.

[1758] No, it's not awful.

[1759] They're like, come on, we're here to watch this, you know, watch the show.

[1760] I go, so you get an extra show.

[1761] You get a thing that's like, not just us doing our thing.

[1762] I'm going to deliver what I'm going to deliver.

[1763] I'm not going to not sing the song.

[1764] But I'm going to run over here, and you should be laughing at the fact that I have this weird fucking obsession with UFC for your show.

[1765] Do the people know?

[1766] No, not mostly.

[1767] They know now.

[1768] They know now.

[1769] What's that weird glow?

[1770] Why does he keep looking down there where that speaker is?

[1771] Is it like a teleprompter?

[1772] Oh, no, you're the...

[1773] Yeah.

[1774] Get up, get up, get up, get up, get up.

[1775] Have you ever had a moment where, like, something shocking happens?

[1776] You're like, react?

[1777] Yeah.

[1778] Yeah.

[1779] I can't remember the fight, but it was...

[1780] I have the video somewhere.

[1781] I'll send it to you.

[1782] But it was like...

[1783] Backstage.

[1784] Yeah.

[1785] Do you ever get a chance to go see many of them live?

[1786] UFCs?

[1787] Yeah.

[1788] Only when it's like maybe Arizona.

[1789] Yeah.

[1790] Have you been to some of the ones?

[1791] Did you go to the one with, uh, where...

[1792] Olivera fought Who did he fight Where he won?

[1793] Justin Gagey I missed that I think I was out of town For that one The one I saw Was I was screaming Like a fucking idiot Man I was front row And it was when Diaz caught Sterling Is that Sterling?

[1794] No It was He didn't win He got him down And he started A showboat Oh Leon Edwards Edwards.

[1795] I'm like, dude, finish the fucking fight.

[1796] I'm like, I'm on my feet screaming my fucking head off.

[1797] Finish it!

[1798] Like, because, you know, and he didn't.

[1799] Well, easier said than done.

[1800] Yeah, I know.

[1801] But I was like, you know, armchair fucking dude down on the ground.

[1802] Like, I was just so excited for him that he caught him.

[1803] And he was down for a second.

[1804] We should go to one live.

[1805] Let's go to one live when I'm not working.

[1806] Okay.

[1807] We should come see one at the Apex Center.

[1808] That's the best.

[1809] It's the best.

[1810] It's the best.

[1811] We went to, we did a combat sports trifecta.

[1812] We saw Abu Dhabi.

[1813] We saw Gordon Ryan compete in Abu Dhabi.

[1814] Then we went to the UFC and saw Corey Sanhagan and Yong Sadong at the Apex Center.

[1815] And then we went to see Canelo Alvarez versus Triple G in a boxing fight.

[1816] It was incredible day.

[1817] I think so was going to do.

[1818] Against Jake Paul?

[1819] Well, it's interesting.

[1820] Jake Paul is a big.

[1821] heavy -handed young guy.

[1822] And if Jake Paul was just a boxer and not a YouTuber, I think people would take him very seriously.

[1823] Right.

[1824] And I think people, for whatever reason, think that he's...

[1825] I think you have to take him seriously.

[1826] You have to take him very seriously.

[1827] He knocked out Tyron Woodley with one punch.

[1828] He's legit as fuck.

[1829] Anderson Silva is one of the greatest combat sports athletes of all time, one of the greatest MMA fighters of all time.

[1830] And as a boxer, even though he's 47 years old.

[1831] He did beat Julio Cesar Chavez, Jr., who was a legitimate former world champion, and he knocked out Tito Ortiz to show you that he's got power.

[1832] Obviously, Tito's not a boxer.

[1833] I'm curious.

[1834] I'm curious.

[1835] I don't know what's going to happen.

[1836] It's 47 is old.

[1837] Because for me, there's the UFC, and then there's Anderson Silva.

[1838] Yeah.

[1839] So I'm, you know, I'm very precious about Anderson.

[1840] Well, I was very fortunate to be able to commentate against while, excuse me, when Anderson was competing in his prime against the best in the world.

[1841] When Anderson was in his prime, he was a magician.

[1842] He was spectacular.

[1843] To see him fight in his prime, like when he knocked out Vitor with that front kick to the face, when Anderson beat Chale Sondon with a triangle in the last round of a fight that he was losing, when he just beat the shit out of him in the remit.

[1844] match.

[1845] Anderson during his prime was something extraordinary.

[1846] He really, he, for people forget, because you see him towards the decline after he got his leg broken by Chris Wideman in that fight.

[1847] He was never really the same again.

[1848] But if you remember, like, you should look at a fighter in terms of like what they were, what they were when they were at their best.

[1849] And Anderson at his best was one of the greatest, if not the greatest of all time.

[1850] He was amazing.

[1851] He was fucking amazing when he was in his prime.

[1852] Yeah, I had friends that would like watch the fights with me. And they're going, what is he doing?

[1853] Like, he's not doing anything to first.

[1854] I go, he's, he is testing every single fucking boundary right now to figure out what he's going to do in the second round.

[1855] And then he's downloading data.

[1856] Downloading data.

[1857] I'm going to go like this, see what he does.

[1858] And we go like this, see what he does.

[1859] And we go like this see what he does.

[1860] Okay.

[1861] He was extraordinary.

[1862] And then second round, point.

[1863] I was a fan of his before he ever got to the UFC, and I remember there was a betting line when he was fighting Chris Lieben, and I was like, whatever the betting line has, put the fucking house on the Brazilian.

[1864] I'm like, you have to understand what you're about to see.

[1865] Like, this guy is on many different levels.

[1866] He is, and he was in his prime, because I was watching him compete.

[1867] He was initially competing in Japan, and then he started competing in London, in England.

[1868] And it was a cage rage, I think it was called?

[1869] that in that promotion was when he came into his own that's when he fought lee murray that's when he fought um george olivera he he was in his prime then and that's when he came to the ufc right after that i'm like this when he fought tony frickland and he hit him with this like preposterous upward elbow he was so good and i was like we're getting anderson like when he came into his own and that's when he entered into the ufc so people got to see this like just perfect striker he was so good but he's 47 you know that's so when i'm looking at this fight coming up i'm like hmm i don't know he's also 47 and i don't know what kind of testing they're doing right that changes everything that changes the whole world because if he's on all sorts of mexican supplements then we could see uh like a turning back of the clock extra mustache yes could have an extra mustache he's most likely going to be supplementing I wouldn't imagine he's not.

[1870] At 47, I wouldn't imagine he's not taking something.

[1871] If you're taking something in your 47, that is not what we think of as 47.

[1872] That is 47 with a body that responds like a 30 -year -old.

[1873] Is that the case?

[1874] I don't know.

[1875] Is that enough?

[1876] I don't know.

[1877] I'm interested.

[1878] I'm in.

[1879] I'm going to watch it.

[1880] I'm definitely going to get it.

[1881] Yeah.

[1882] You know?

[1883] Even if it's on stage.

[1884] Yeah.

[1885] Right over here.

[1886] Yeah.

[1887] I didn't do that.

[1888] I couldn't do that.

[1889] I couldn't.

[1890] It was comedy.

[1891] I can't do that.

[1892] True.

[1893] I can't.

[1894] But afterwards, I'm like, I just got to stay away from my phone and get to the iPad and watch it.

[1895] Yeah.

[1896] But it's, you know, it's an amazing time to be a fan of combat sports.

[1897] There's so much going on.

[1898] I agree.

[1899] Yeah.

[1900] Almost too much.

[1901] Well, yeah.

[1902] I love that the ADCC has gone to the level of it's gone.

[1903] Yeah, we saw it at the Thomas and Mac.

[1904] It was sold out.

[1905] 12 ,000 people in Vegas.

[1906] the arena was packed to the gills and it was nuts like the energy in the place was incredible and to be there like to have it this popular it's not a coincidence that it's this popular while Gordon Ryan is at his peak who is the greatest jiu jitsu athlete of all time at 27 years old which is so crazy to say he looks amazing and I talked to John before you got there today and John and I were talking and he's like he's not even in his prime he's like he's not even at 100 % he's still getting over his stomach issues he's like but gordon ryan at 70 % destroys everybody yeah and he's getting better it was it was impressed with to see because most of the things that he was doing were very simple methodical cutting cutting off all your fucking exits and trapping you into a thing nothing fancy just this now this is mine now this is mine now this is mine now this is mine now this is mine and you're done.

[1907] We were talking to him before the finals.

[1908] We're hanging out outside.

[1909] And when he's fighting Nicky Rod in the finals, he said, I'm just going to give him my leg.

[1910] Because the only way he can win is in a wrestling match.

[1911] He goes, I'm just going to give him my leg and make him do Jiu -Jitsu with me. And so he walks out there and he just kind of gives him his leg.

[1912] Nicky grabs him, takes him down.

[1913] Gordon grabs all of his leg, laces it up, taps.

[1914] And I'm like, holy shit.

[1915] Like, he's exactly how he called it.

[1916] But the way, I mean, he was so calm.

[1917] described it.

[1918] I'm just going to give him my leg.

[1919] And he did it.

[1920] Yeah.

[1921] Have you been to an Abu Dhabi live?

[1922] Two years from now, let's go.

[1923] Okay.

[1924] Yeah.

[1925] I think they're going to do it again in Vegas.

[1926] If that's the case, let's go.

[1927] It'll be worth it.

[1928] It's pretty fucking amazing.

[1929] And it's pretty amazing as a jiu -jitsu lover to be able to see Jiu -Jitsu get the attention that it deserves and to see like this fucking rabid fan base.

[1930] Because like basically everyone in the audience trained.

[1931] So there's like 12 ,000 people who are jiu -jitsu trainers and fans and practitioners.

[1932] that are there enjoying that.

[1933] Yeah, I'm going.

[1934] All right, we got a date.

[1935] All right.

[1936] Two years from now.

[1937] Maynard, you're the fucking man. Thank you, sir.

[1938] Thank you very much.

[1939] Give people information on all the stuff that we talked about earlier for everything you got going on, the paper views.

[1940] Yeah.

[1941] PustervortTV .com.

[1942] There it is.

[1943] And the tour dates.

[1944] Yeah, we're still going, man. This is, it's going to be all the way up to Thanksgiving.

[1945] There it is.

[1946] Pusiver .com forward slash door.

[1947] All right, brother.

[1948] Thank you very much.

[1949] Thank you.

[1950] Bye, everybody.