78 - The Freshest Recording

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only Martyrs in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Sarah Audio.

[17] Is that beeping?

[18] Good night.

[19] Should I go tell the...

[20] Beeping to stop?

[21] You don't hear that?

[22] There's no beeping, Georgia.

[23] And we've started.

[24] And...

[25] Breakdown.

[26] And Georgia hears beeping.

[27] Do you hear that sound of a baby crying?

[28] This is not an ad for...

[29] For a new beeper.

[30] For a new brain.

[31] We're bringing back beepers.

[32] Beepers.

[33] Are you a doctor or a drug dealer?

[34] Or do you play one on TV?

[35] Then you need a beeper.

[36] Or are you having an affair and you need a way for your...

[37] affair person to contact you?

[38] What was the affair, what was the thing of like some kind of a 4 -1 -1 but for hookups?

[39] No. Yeah.

[40] It was like, I didn't do, I guess I didn't hook up when I had a beeper.

[41] Oh, I did all the time.

[42] No. When I was an emergency room intern.

[43] No, never.

[44] Um, of course not.

[45] You were serious.

[46] I'm super blackout drunk in a bar and then I hold it my beeper.

[47] Guys, I've got to go.

[48] My sugar daddy's calling me. One of my, uh, hey, welcome to my favorite.

[49] I welcome to my favorite murdered.

[50] That's George Hardstock.

[51] That's Karen Kalegarra.

[52] We're here to read to you and tell to you true crime stories from all around the nation and world.

[53] And more.

[54] And then some.

[55] And then more.

[56] And then after that, half a teaspoon more.

[57] It's the morning.

[58] We've never recorded in the morning before.

[59] This is so weird.

[60] I had to stay at work late last night.

[61] Everybody got to adjust to my needs.

[62] So we were supposed to record last night.

[63] I called and said, I'm still.

[64] still at work, then Georgia, you've actually been into this idea for a while.

[65] I feel like you've been very morning positive about, right?

[66] It just feels fun and fresh and like different.

[67] You know what I mean?

[68] Like recording in a different place.

[69] It feels like a field trip without going anywhere.

[70] Yes.

[71] School is new again for us.

[72] Yeah.

[73] And now I can really learn.

[74] And it lets me drink whiskey in the morning.

[75] Finally.

[76] Because I can't do this podcast without whiskey.

[77] That's not true.

[78] That's not true.

[79] But let me just, I just need to put this out here.

[80] If you or any of your friends are drinking whiskey in the morning, that was the end stage for me right before I was hospitalized.

[81] What time?

[82] I know you're joking.

[83] What time?

[84] I meant that.

[85] I was legitimately curious.

[86] It's after 1130 you're in the clear.

[87] Yeah.

[88] I always am like, cannot.

[89] No. If it's not on a weekend and it's not brunch, although this is like, well, what's weird is that this is going to come out later today.

[90] So everyone listening on Thursday This is this morning Are you fucking D -D -D -D -D -D -D -D -D -D -D -D -A?

[91] Oh, yeah, same day First time, same day This is the freshest recording And it's not your fault I was out of town on Tuesday And Monday so we couldn't record Like we usually do Oh, thank you.

[92] Georgia, that means a lot to me I wouldn't put it on you at all Because, yeah That's very nice of you to mention I didn't even realize that.

[93] How was that trip, by the way?

[94] Tell the people what you were doing.

[95] I fucking had this crazy experience.

[96] Oxygen had, they were going to have us instead.

[97] It was just me available.

[98] And I was like, fuck yeah.

[99] Hell yeah.

[100] Oxygen is turning into a true crime network.

[101] This is not a plug.

[102] They didn't pay me to do this or anything like that.

[103] She's just trying to tell her story.

[104] I really had an incredible time.

[105] So they have this like special called, um, uh, the jury speaks.

[106] The jury.

[107] Thank you.

[108] You're welcome.

[109] I'm your stage mother.

[110] I'm very early and I've only had a bullet coffee.

[111] You've only had two shots of whiskey.

[112] Yeah.

[113] So the jury speaks.

[114] And so I did this panel for press where I interviewed four of the jury members who were on these like high profile cases where they were really fucking controversial and like kind of ruined these jurors lives for a while because instead of blaming the justice system that let, you know, George Zimmerman go, they blamed the juries for voting the way that they were told to vote, which is if you have reasonable doubt.

[115] And then it asks the question, like, with everything you know now, would you vote differently?

[116] And these people were so, they were just normal people who were very affected by these trials, by what happened to them afterwards.

[117] How could you not be?

[118] This one woman who was on the George Zimmerman trial was just such a, she just was so emotionally raw and wonderful.

[119] And I really, really, she really touched me. It sounds like it's going to be a good show.

[120] I would love to watch that.

[121] I watched it.

[122] It's I, you know, you're like, I'm so sick of the OJ Simpson trial.

[123] I've seen every fucking thing about it.

[124] Well, this is from the jury's perspective.

[125] It's all engine which you've never seen anything of.

[126] And they explain why they voted the way they voted, which everyone's like, you fucking fuck you.

[127] You know, so Michael Jackson case.

[128] It's really cool.

[129] I feel like people were fucky in the 90s and now, especially because of those two things that came out recently.

[130] Everyone's like, oh, yeah, I get it.

[131] I'm starting to get it as like a white American.

[132] I'm starting to understand what all the things I didn't know and never opened my eyes to before were about.

[133] Yeah.

[134] And how unfair it is.

[135] Yeah.

[136] It was really, really interesting.

[137] So that's what I was here for.

[138] And it was fun.

[139] I bet.

[140] Yeah.

[141] Did you get your hair did?

[142] I got my nails and toes did.

[143] Oh, but like, what about were you in that makeup chair?

[144] I'm saying.

[145] That's my favorite part of anything.

[146] No. For this, it wasn't, it wasn't recorded, unfortunately, because I, the first time in my life, um, headed the panel.

[147] Oh, it was like a live panel.

[148] It was a panel for press.

[149] And so there was like 50, 60 people in the room that were press.

[150] And I was like, so when you got sequestered and asking, and then the person who made the show is Nancy Glass, who remember was the Inside Edition blonde woman.

[151] Nancy Glass, yeah.

[152] And she's a fucking badass.

[153] And she was on the panel.

[154] And she's just been, she's won Emmys.

[155] She's just an incredible broadcaster.

[156] So it's so weird to be sitting there interviewing her.

[157] And I'm like, you should be, she was incredible.

[158] And so she made it.

[159] It's just, it's great.

[160] That's so cool.

[161] Yeah, I had a really good time.

[162] Does that mean she picked you to be the person?

[163] I don't know.

[164] I don't think so, but she pretended to know who I am.

[165] I was honored.

[166] I took a photo with her.

[167] It was just exciting.

[168] Yeah, she's just this long time true crime investigative journalist host.

[169] And I was just, I was honored to be there.

[170] That's awesome.

[171] Thank you.

[172] First class?

[173] first class on the way there on my dime I didn't they didn't yeah I love it how about you who me oh I'm just sitting in a office for 11 hours a day talking about what fictional characters may or may not do in their lives and why and if it could be symbolic or any meaningful in any way to other people and it's just conversation after conversation and by the time I leave I don't want to speak and look at anybody else I've eaten so much Trader Joe's snack food Yeah I have it really rough But first class?

[174] First class all the way, baby The one thing I did want to mention And we've gotten tons of tweets about Is the fact that they IDed An unknown victim of John Wayne Gacy Totally Cook County Sheriff just made this announcement And of course we got 1 ,000 tweets about it Which I love The funniest thing is now all the tweets are, did you already get this?

[175] Or I know you already saw this, but just in case.

[176] Which is sweet.

[177] Thank you, mommy.

[178] So just really quick, if you haven't read any of the articles, which you probably have.

[179] And they came out today, so I'm glad we're recording today.

[180] Yeah.

[181] So they said, so there's eight unidentified victims.

[182] And at the time when they found these bodies, it was 1976.

[183] No, sorry, it was 1978.

[184] That they found the bodies.

[185] I believe, right?

[186] I don't have the year.

[187] 78 or 79.

[188] Yeah.

[189] But, so eight were unidentified and they couldn't do anything about it because they didn't, they, of course, obviously didn't have the forensics that we have today.

[190] And they kept jaw bones.

[191] I know.

[192] But they, so that if people came forward with dental records.

[193] So creepy.

[194] Yeah.

[195] But back then, like, dental wasn't a thing that it is today, which is like you take your kids immediately.

[196] So not everyone had dental records back then.

[197] That's exactly right.

[198] And that's, so this, I. identified victim Jimmy Hawkinson.

[199] He was 16 years old when he was murdered by John Wayne Gasey.

[200] Well, baby.

[201] And his mother actually went to Chicago in 1979 to try to find out if her missing son was one of the victims, but because she didn't have dental records, they couldn't tell her anything.

[202] They had no way of knowing anything.

[203] But they've continued to test these the, you know, evidence.

[204] Yeah, the remains that they have.

[205] And the cool thing is so it's 39 years later and hawkinson's nephew sees that they're still testing remains so he encourages his um i believe it was his aunt and his father to go give the DNA so they could test it and immediately fucking murderino if he's just like i'm going to track my uncle down wouldn't you be so fascinated if you had a missing uncle who was suspected to have been at at 16 yeah you and i would be I think most people listening would be like, I'm going to track this down.

[206] But some people would be like, this is too hard for my family.

[207] They don't want to talk about it.

[208] Yeah.

[209] And it's also when it's just a missing child, that's just like, that's, I mean, it's so sad.

[210] They just no answer.

[211] You almost, and do you want an answer?

[212] Because then it's like, it's, it's a period on the sentence that like, maybe he'll walk through the door someday or maybe, you know, not really wanting to know that it's over and that this monster John Wayne Gacy is the reason.

[213] And, like, his mom let him move to Chicago to, like, start a new life.

[214] And then they said, right, that he called her on August 5th.

[215] I just read it this morning.

[216] Yeah.

[217] When he got there.

[218] When he got there and they think maybe the same day he got captured, right?

[219] Well, that was, all I read was that was the last she ever heard of him.

[220] So it was, like, very soon after.

[221] I love the way that he really underlined the fact that his family loved him.

[222] His family had been searching for him.

[223] this was not you know it's that thing they always do uh not always do but sometimes do the story with victims which is the hitch you know the the hitchhiker who didn't care about their life right the runaway who it doesn't matter what happened to them anyway the sex worker who i mean who really cares is it's just another victim or it's like he really was underlining this is a family who missed their child their 16 year old boy for 39 years yeah i hope i didn't sound like when i said that they didn't want to know that I don't know if that's true or not but no you're just saying that's a possibility for some people probably then the grief then you have to like then that's a whole new grieving process and you've learned how to compartmentalize this anyways I don't know I've never I've never lost someone like that so yeah who knows I'm just speculating yeah that's how this show is this podcast is speculation it's speculation it's speculation I like to lie out what was the quote or the like saying you call it uh or someone called it uh or someone called it but the vague postulating that's vague postulation something like serious vague postulating yeah that's what i'm all yeah we're just talking about sincere vague postulating something um well that's fucked up and i'm glad and then the creepiest part to me was that they they could tell um when it happened based on this like stacking of the bodies oh right like what number victim he was yeah yeah i'm sorry can you hold on one second there's somebody they're trying to break in or clean probably clean but why would they or the kittens doing something which I don't think she is it sounds like cleaning why would they don't think they do that ever?

[224] No look at that fucking disgusting why would you yeah but how do you get up there maybe maybe there's something going up the side of the building all right we'll keep this in because someone's trying to break into my fucking house right now I don't see any of okay they left they gave up and then hear smash it turns out it was a hummingbird crashed into the window So that Hemingbird's trying to kill me. That's where my brain goes to immediately.

[225] Yeah, so they stacked the bodies and that's, he stacked them by like when he got them, you just like buried them on top of each other so they could be like he died at this time or this year because we know the body underneath him went away, like disappeared on this day and the one on top of him disappeared on this day.

[226] So yeah.

[227] It's not creepy.

[228] It's so crazy.

[229] The visual of that makes me so sad for these kids.

[230] The visual of that is what like.

[231] spark my what the hell is going on in this actual world that's exactly it yeah with the bearing of the bodies it was a diagram drawing a diagram of where the bodies were buried in the house and to me to my child's mind I thought he'd buried them in the wall yeah it didn't make sense to me that it was underneath so I was just like because I knew my parents were telling me stuff yeah because my parents would always be like we'll tell you later we'll tell you when you're older which nothing makes you want to know more I mean then they tell you that for real And so that was one of the ones.

[232] Anyway, it makes me happy that they're still working the way they are for this.

[233] There's something about that that's very heartening to me. Can we go back to, you never gave me an answer, what time drinking whiskey means you're about to Karen out and have to go to the hospital.

[234] Let's not call it Karen.

[235] I'm sorry.

[236] Stephen, take that out.

[237] No, you don't have to.

[238] you know what it is it's not time of day it's that you think you need it why and can you think it's okay when it's not a choice because it moves to a point where it's not a choice anymore especially when you're at that point i was only drinking whiskey only so my friends would we'd meet at a bar people would get a round of beers i would have a shot of jameson's i would be done before everybody of course mine was smaller and then i would keep on having shots of whiskey until I was trying to kick the bouncer and the shins for no reason.

[239] Party central.

[240] Party, Karen.

[241] Party times.

[242] Anyways.

[243] All right.

[244] So 11 o 'clock.

[245] Right around 11 .15.

[246] If at that point, I remember taking a bottle of Jameson's off the top of my refrigerator, the second I woke up in the morning like it was coffee, and as I drank it, like just took a swig of it thinking, this is very bad.

[247] Oh, you knew then.

[248] Yeah.

[249] But you were like, well, I'll stop soon.

[250] I'll stop doing this, but today is not the day.

[251] No, I knew, you know what it was?

[252] I knew it was bad and I knew I should stop, but I also knew I could not stop.

[253] I knew that.

[254] How scary.

[255] It was horrible.

[256] I'm sorry.

[257] Thank you.

[258] Congratulations, because you fucking did it.

[259] And you did it well.

[260] I did, you did, I'm so impressed that you did that.

[261] Thank you.

[262] As someone who drinks.

[263] I mean, look, I highly recommend seizures.

[264] They're very, they are upsetting.

[265] They're mysterious.

[266] I tried one at like 12.

[267] gave you a shot at 12.

[268] It wasn't for me. No, I mean, they're not for everybody.

[269] I really had a seizure at 12.

[270] For what?

[271] I don't know.

[272] My brother, yeah, I think so.

[273] My brother and I both had one seizure, like, around that age, and then never again.

[274] It might have been your brain growth spurt because kids have them when they're seven.

[275] Mm -hmm.

[276] They have them when they're babies, if they have fevers.

[277] Sometimes.

[278] Yeah.

[279] Sometimes when you're seven, sometimes when you're 14.

[280] Every seven years when your brain grows, they say.

[281] And, like, a hormone release.

[282] And I had been worth, like, playing.

[283] all day, probably was dehydrated.

[284] And I had it in my, this isn't interesting.

[285] I had it in my sleep, which isn't supposed to actually be a seizure.

[286] No, no, that's when I have all mine.

[287] Oh, right.

[288] That's right.

[289] They are seizures.

[290] Did I tell you I was sharing, this is how young, I was sharing a bunk bed with my sister.

[291] I started shaking.

[292] Thank God, we shared a room at the time.

[293] She ran into my mom's room and said, we were really into the Simpsons at the time.

[294] And she said, Mom, George is having a cow.

[295] Oh.

[296] I was probably younger.

[297] I was probably like 10.

[298] Your mom's like, what the fuck.

[299] Yeah.

[300] Oh, Jesus.

[301] And I missed my whole ride in the ambulance.

[302] I'm so loved about that.

[303] Oh, because you were out?

[304] Yeah.

[305] It's not that great.

[306] It's kind of weird.

[307] Okay.

[308] It's not like fun.

[309] Like you'd think.

[310] It's not as fun as you'd think.

[311] Stephen Ray Morris keeps giving us presents.

[312] Oh, no. We get him nothing.

[313] You just pulled that out of the envelope a little bit, and I see VHS.

[314] You see VHS.

[315] This must have cost.

[316] Steven, send us an invoice.

[317] Here you go.

[318] It's your story.

[319] Here you go.

[320] Read it to everyone.

[321] Echoes in the dark.

[322] Joseph Wombos echoes in the darkness, everybody.

[323] This is the story.

[324] A fucking video cassette, he tracked down.

[325] It's Peter Coyote, Robert Logea, Stalker Channing, telling the story of William Bradfield Patches.

[326] We called him.

[327] Dr. J. Smith.

[328] Principal.

[329] What was his name?

[330] I don't remember.

[331] The principal?

[332] And then patches.

[333] Missing children with the fucking.

[334] Little statue in the forest.

[335] Stephen.

[336] Oh, guys.

[337] A plus.

[338] It's such a cool VHS.

[339] Like it...

[340] It's such a VHS that I remember from my childhood.

[341] I mean, it's in perfect condition.

[342] Somebody really held onto that tight.

[343] Somebody really...

[344] Somebody dusted their VHS shelf every day.

[345] Well, it makes me sad as like what happened to them that they, we were able to get this.

[346] If they saved it that long, either they died and their parents or their siblings were like, sell it on eBay, sell all of dad's VHSs.

[347] Oh, can I go fucking...

[348] dark all the time like ever go positive because now let's do the therapy now there are four other choices that can be happening here holding our holding our hand up with five fingers every time you think of something that's upsetting that you think is the truth somebody's something's working on the side of your house okay that sounded like a weird fart didn't it no it sounded like a a noise maker when you're yeah okay so you hold up okay everyone this is the rule of six rule of five okay no the rule of six sorry okay so number one is the negative thought so you're like someone died and that's why we have the VHS someone died it's the only reason we have a VHs yeah which I kind of enjoy postulating of course well worst case you always explore the worst case so then the five is like maybe they had a wonderful life with wonderful family maybe they're not actually dead and maybe they were happy to let this move on to someone Now, Stephen, tell us the background of you buying this.

[349] Did someone send it to it or was like...

[350] Oh, no, I just found it on eBay.

[351] But the person sent a letter.

[352] Oh, my God.

[353] So they're still alive.

[354] And it says, dear customer, please know I upgraded in bold.

[355] At my cost, your VHS ordered a first class mail because I consider you a first class customer.

[356] Oh, congratulations.

[357] Media mail, I consider too slow.

[358] I also mailed it in a padded mailer with free delivery confirmation.

[359] I hope you have earned...

[360] I hope I have earned your five -star feedback you have.

[361] And if not, please message me on how to improve, thanking you, Karen with an I. Yes.

[362] Oh, my God, Karen.

[363] Karen, great job, Karen.

[364] Speaking of a great job, and this isn't a present that's not from me. And then I want to read the letter because this is from a murderino.

[365] The letter made me cry.

[366] Nice.

[367] But it's really self -serving because it's because of something I said on the podcast.

[368] Sure.

[369] Is that okay?

[370] I feel like that's, this is podcast.

[371] Okay.

[372] Okay.

[373] So, da -da -da -da, Karen Dorcas Stevens, sisters and are a huge fan, sending you a thing, but I never expected to, but I wanted to share with you a very personal way in which your approach to the podcast inspired and motivated me. Can I just say one thing?

[374] What?

[375] If you're going to read a letter that's like slightly self -congratulatory, you can't skip through the beginning of their part.

[376] But it's long.

[377] Da -da -da -da, you love me. No. Okay.

[378] Well, I'll read it.

[379] No, no, no. Okay.

[380] Well, I was going to read the rest.

[381] So, it does look long, actually.

[382] In an early -ish episode, Georgia was making a t -shirt corner update.

[383] Karen mentioned how impressed she was.

[384] See, this is so dick, by Georgia's tenacity and follow -through and actually making the shirts a reality.

[385] And because, remember, I was like, you don't have to be perfect, just fucking do things.

[386] Yes.

[387] Which is my motto in life.

[388] That's right.

[389] Georgia went to express how she just doesn't let the fear of missing up or not being perfect, hold her back.

[390] She continued to explain the theory that people who make A -quality work often don't even start, much less finish -making things because they're so hung up on perfection of fear of failing.

[391] It was a lightbulb moment.

[392] This described me. I went to school for design, currently work in the design industry, yet have been terrified of creating personal passion projects for fear that they wouldn't turn out, quote, perfect.

[393] Gumpshin and willingness to start T -shirts on this podcast, despite things not always being perfect, no shit.

[394] It was so encouraging to me. With the mindset of fuck perfection, I successfully created a little bit of jewelry for you guys and all the other murderinos out there who want one.

[395] Inside the tiny envelopes, I'm passing them to you.

[396] and Stephen, you get one too, even though it's weird.

[397] You will find a solid 14 -carat -gold murderino script necklaces, my first four -ended -making jewelry.

[398] I drew the script, figured out how to 3D print said script for a mold.

[399] Now, a casting place made prototypes and lovingly put each one together by hand.

[400] They are all designed and made in New York City.

[401] You guys get the first three because you inspired the whole thing, and I want to say thank you.

[402] I had a blast.

[403] They learned so I'm really proud I made them.

[404] Thank you all for pursuing what you love and for being authentic.

[405] and hilarious team.

[406] My sisters and I wish you all the best happiness and success.

[407] Stephanie of the sisters gamble.

[408] The sisters gamble.

[409] You can get it.

[410] It's Etsy, the sisters gamble.

[411] G -A -M -B -L -E.

[412] P -S.

[413] Stephen, I don't know if you're into necklaces, but I know you could rock it alongside the stash.

[414] Hell yeah.

[415] Yeah.

[416] Hell yeah.

[417] Stephen, you will look so 1975.

[418] Oh, because it's gold.

[419] I mean, I do have chest hair.

[420] You have a lot of chest hair.

[421] Live, love, laugh.

[422] Listen, shave your chest hair into a mustache.

[423] Yes.

[424] I'll do it.

[425] I think that's beautiful.

[426] That's really lovely.

[427] And that makes me really happy because that's so true.

[428] Just fucking do what you want to do.

[429] You'll improve later.

[430] It made me really tear up and proud of us.

[431] Just because of us.

[432] We said fuck it.

[433] Yeah.

[434] It's funny.

[435] Those ideas that seem kind of simple.

[436] For me, they're like just TED talks that I've watched.

[437] It's like if you go on to the Brunee Brown vulnerability TED talk, watch that.

[438] And then there's going to be a bunch of other ones that are like, perfection ruining shit ruining creativity this that and the other thing you can like there's a whole philosophy of life that you can discover oh I love that yeah well that made me so thank you Stephanie thanks um we got to let's see my aunt turned actually turned Richard Speck into the police maybe we can save these for um hometowns I work with Trisha Maylay oh wait that person's aunt turned Richard Speck into the place I wonder went to high school with him that saw him in the town and country center that weird fucking mall Sacramento.

[439] Richard Speck was the one who killed all the nurses in the...

[440] Oh, shit.

[441] Sorry, I was thinking Richard Chase.

[442] Oh, is that right?

[443] Oh, Richard Chase was the creepy Sacramento.

[444] Chase was the Sacramento, the vampire and your, that's Richard Speck.

[445] Yeah, we should...

[446] This says Georgia, Karen, Stephen, Mimi, and Elvis, but we should also give a shout out to the person who made you that cross stitch of the dogs.

[447] Oh, that's right.

[448] And I want to say right now that Elvis is at the doctors because we have a new kitten named Dottie and she got Elvis sick and I love this new kitten very much but if she kills Elvis I'm gonna fucking lose my mind.

[449] How old is Elvis Georgia?

[450] He's about to be 13.

[451] He's gonna be okay.

[452] Okay.

[453] I hope my subject line grabbed your attention.

[454] You guys are the best to make my hour long Chicago commute so much more bearable.

[455] I've gotten countless friends and family members hooked into listening by telling them the Mary Vincent and Sarah Brady stories.

[456] Anyway, on to my aunt's story.

[457] My aunt is Kathy O 'Connor, and she was a nurse at Cook County Hospital in 1966.

[458] She always talked about this case when I was younger, but I never realized how much of a connection she actually had.

[459] I started reading the book, The Crime of the Century, which is about the Richard Speck murders, and he killed what a bunch of nurses in that nurse.

[460] He went into the nurse's, like, dorm and, yeah, and one woman survived by hiding.

[461] And in the chapter where they talk about him trying to kill himself and then getting admitted to the hospital, I see my aunt's name.

[462] Once I saw her name, I immediately went to talk to her, and she told me the real scoop.

[463] She was the nurse that treated him when he came to the ER that night.

[464] In every report you're going to see, it says that Leroy Smith was the one who saw his tattoo and alerted the police.

[465] But after talking with my aunt this week, it was actually her that notified that noticed the tattoo on his wrist from a picture in the newspaper.

[466] She then told Leroy, and he alerted the police.

[467] Fuck yeah, bitch.

[468] And since this was 1966 and my aunt is a woman, she didn't get any of the credit.

[469] down with the patriarchy.

[470] Am I right?

[471] Now you guys know the real story.

[472] All in all, it's fine because Speck was captured and was sentenced to life in prison, but it's still a pretty crazy story and connection.

[473] Thank you guys for this amazing podcast.

[474] It's honestly made me more, I'm just like congratulating myself this whole time.

[475] It's honestly made me more aware as a person when I'm out alone.

[476] Next time you guys are in Chicago, hit me up and we can do a ghost tour or you can talk to my badass aunt.

[477] Much love, say sexy.

[478] Don't get murdered.

[479] Mary Kay.

[480] Everyone in Chicago wants to give us a ghost tour.

[481] I love it.

[482] It must be a thing.

[483] Well, because they have H .H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. C. Cuts.

[484] F. C.?

[485] Clearly.

[486] We have to do.

[487] We have to do.

[488] G. Kelly, sex cult.

[489] F. P. P. Piscentively.

[490] It's crazy.

[491] Because I read the buzz.

[492] the BuzzFeed our goal this morning.

[493] It's so much, there's so much detail.

[494] Like, it'll take us, let's talk about it next week.

[495] Okay, I have, like, a list of things I've been meaning to talk about, but, but that one is especially interesting because what really freaked me out is, R. Kelly is touring.

[496] He is, even though he was, he, so he was acquitted for, uh, 14 counts of child porn.

[497] He married as a year, when she was 14 and he was like 20 something, 30 something.

[498] And then, there was a song called Age is Just a Number.

[499] Yeah, which is like, no, that's not true.

[500] But also when you start reading these accounts and the way he's keeping and controlling these women, it's unbelievable.

[501] And he's just, and he's like, on Fallon.

[502] And he's like, you know, he's being in someone's funny video or whatever.

[503] But I think it's still okay with these people.

[504] Chris Brown, I know it's dated, but I want to call that motherfucker out.

[505] Why does he still have a career after beating the shit out of Rihanna?

[506] It's because when you make people money, the people who get paid because of making that money figure out a way to make it okay.

[507] Yeah.

[508] And that's what so much of show business is.

[509] And because people haven't had a voice before.

[510] And what a lot of, like, there was a reporter at a really tragic quote that was like, this story proves that young black women do not matter to people in this country, which is really true.

[511] And it's a thing that, you know, we come up against all the time when you're in talking about true crime.

[512] This issue of of the race of the victim and how that story gets treated is a huge problem.

[513] Yeah.

[514] And we're learning as we go, but it is, it's nothing that we, you know, like we're just doing our best.

[515] Right.

[516] But it is, it's a, it's a problem on this level.

[517] It's a problem, obviously, in the regular media.

[518] It's how we, the story gets presented where you go, well, this thing happened, but it's okay.

[519] And the room goes, great, it's okay.

[520] Yeah, you don't, you don't question your immediate thinking, your immediate snap judgment, which I think is what we need to start paying attention to.

[521] Like, what's my snap judgment?

[522] And then questioning that.

[523] Yes.

[524] Because that's my internal bias.

[525] Why you're not ignorant is you think for yourself and, and try to keep on thinking.

[526] And not shut down, not fight.

[527] Not fucking absorb or what is it called, take on whatever is being fucking screamed at you.

[528] Yeah, just like swallow whatever the story on CNN is or whatever, but like actually try I do whatever.

[529] Anyways, we're all doing our best.

[530] Should we get to the murder?

[531] Yeah, I think we should.

[532] There's now a Twitter account that keeps track of who went first.

[533] I swear to God, the first time I saw it made me laugh.

[534] Did you make it, Stephen?

[535] No. Steven's like, I'm busy with so much of your other bullshit that you guys make me do.

[536] And I did use it to look up.

[537] Oh, my God.

[538] Nice.

[539] Well, we're hiring them instead of you now.

[540] Oh, that's cruel.

[541] Who is it?

[542] Me?

[543] Yeah, it's here.

[544] Okay.

[545] I go first.

[546] So, as we all know when I'm working and I'm in the midst and in the mix, and I have, don't have a ton of time to do my homework.

[547] What do I do?

[548] I like to retell you my favorite I survived episode.

[549] That's great.

[550] Okay, good.

[551] Thank God.

[552] No, can we stop for a minute?

[553] Karen, I'm going to need you.

[554] Go outside.

[555] Take notes.

[556] Steven.

[557] Here's what's amazing to me. So this one I remembered, and we've actually talked about it very lightly before, but it's one of my favorites.

[558] And when I went to rewatch it, so I could just base, all the information is from this woman who's, it's her story.

[559] I'm taking it directly from the I survived episode.

[560] This is basically like, if you're driving, I'm telling you and I survive so you don't have to watch it because it's exactly what I'm, what everything I'm talking about I got from the show.

[561] I survived.

[562] I tried to watch it actually recently.

[563] And it's hard.

[564] Yeah, it's hard and it's fucked up.

[565] Yeah.

[566] Yeah, so I haven't watched a lot of these.

[567] What I love about it is it, it...

[568] Hey, this is exciting.

[569] An all new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[570] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[571] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[572] Who killed Saz?

[573] And were they really after Charles?

[574] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[575] This season, murder hits close to home with a threat against one of the three.

[576] their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[577] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[578] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[579] Who knows what'll happen once the cameras start to roll?

[580] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Meryl Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Davey, Devine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[581] Only Martyrs in the building premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[582] Bye.

[583] Goodbye.

[584] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[585] Absolutely.

[586] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[587] Exactly.

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[600] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

[601] Go to Shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today.

[602] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[603] Goodbye.

[604] Electrifies me with people sitting there telling this thing that we only talk about third, fifth hands, you know, so far away, so distant.

[605] Because we don't have the explanation of the victim because they're dead in most cases.

[606] Yeah.

[607] And these are people who got through it and turned a ground and we're like, this happened to me. It's not my fault.

[608] I'm not a victim it.

[609] I'm not, you know, I'm like, here's what I did after.

[610] Yeah.

[611] And it's amazing.

[612] And there are 80 % women.

[613] It's, and the women who are on it, I would say 80 % were raped in some way and left for dead in some way.

[614] And then there's just some man who was like, well, I took my tractor out.

[615] Well, there was one real, the one I watched, the only episode I watched, there was a guy who was in Haiti after yes and there was an earthquake and he was trapped in the hotel elevator that fell upon him for like 80 something hours yeah and it was incredible yeah but other you know he was there to fucking help people so it's not like he was like I hiked into the forest no and look their survival stories are important too but it's it's interesting to watch if you're interested watch it because you'll see the difference of somebody that's like he held a knife to my throat It's like they should make two shows.

[616] And one of them is these stories of getting lost and, you know, be on your boat or whatever and earthquakes.

[617] And the other should be, it's like kind of paying tribute to women who have been men who have been attacked.

[618] Right.

[619] Yeah.

[620] Well, I mean, they can do what they want.

[621] Yeah.

[622] As long as they keep doing it.

[623] So I have these things to rely upon.

[624] Not to talk down.

[625] Like, yeah.

[626] Look, hey, listen.

[627] Okay.

[628] So this is what's amazing about this is it's, Season 2, episode 10 of I Survived.

[629] It's the same episode as our friend Sarah Brady, who was pregnant, nine most pregnant and who got attacked by the fake pregnant girls.

[630] This was like the best episode you've ever seen.

[631] The best episode, my favorite, my favorite girl.

[632] Well, this woman is on the same episode as her.

[633] That's insane.

[634] I was thrilled.

[635] Great.

[636] It was like a star siding for me. So this is Ellen Halbert's story.

[637] Okay.

[638] Okay.

[639] This takes place outside of Austin, Texas, in an affluent area, I guess, in the Hills in 1986, September of 1986.

[640] So Ellen Halbert is in her 40s.

[641] She's a wife and mother.

[642] She's having a run -of -the -mill morning.

[643] She's reading the paper.

[644] She's drinking her coffee and peace and quiet.

[645] Her husband is out for the day golfing, and her son is at school all day.

[646] Um, so, you know, she eventually decides to go upstairs and take a shower to get ready for her day.

[647] Uh, she goes, she takes a shower.

[648] And when she gets out of the shower, she grabs a towel, wraps it around her.

[649] She's walking over to the closet to get a robe when she notices something in the corner.

[650] Oh, no, no, no. And what's in the corner is a five foot 11 man standing, holding, holding the, she says, the largest knife she's ever seen up above his head, dressed like a ninja.

[651] No, like, can you fucking, like, you'd be like, my brain isn't working.

[652] She said she laughed out loud because she couldn't figure out, she said she thought it was a joke, couldn't figure out what was happening.

[653] I have chills right now.

[654] Yes.

[655] It's like seeing a ghost.

[656] Yes.

[657] But like, and also it's that.

[658] thing where, you know, sometimes I get, I have like those weird floaters in my eyes where everyone's why I'm like, is that a cat?

[659] Like I'm like, you're having a seizure, Karen.

[660] Cat seizure, which is like some weird thing passes in your eyeline or whatever.

[661] Yeah, definitely.

[662] You don't turn your head and expect to see a huge cat standing there or what, I mean, the full body, yeah, you expect to see like, oh, weird, I might have.

[663] She didn't expect anything.

[664] She didn't even see anything out of the corner eyes.

[665] She's just getting out of the shower regular day.

[666] Okay.

[667] Okay.

[668] Horrifying.

[669] Everyone is gasping in their cars right now.

[670] Also, his in this ninja outfit, if you're not familiar.

[671] Oh, you bet.

[672] Every part of his body was covered.

[673] It was black pants, black shirt, head wrap so that only his eyes are exposed.

[674] It's like a karate uniform plus a head.

[675] It's karate plus.

[676] Right.

[677] He's also wearing gloves.

[678] So it's just eyes and a knife, basically.

[679] in the corner of her bathroom.

[680] Okay.

[681] He screams get on the floor and comes at her and they start to, as she says in the episode, Tustle, which is the cutest and also reminds me of the movie out of sight with Jay Lowe and George Clinton.

[682] Oh, that scene in the bathroom.

[683] Those guys.

[684] Anyhow.

[685] So he pushes her into the bedroom and he back hands her and knocks her onto the ground um she gets up he does it again uh she gets up again and sits on the edge of the bed and because she's she says she's basically naked except for this towel she pulls her knees up uh to her chest to like try to get covered in as small as she can and he walks over and drags the knife across her feet and he says i just want you to know that my knives are much sharper than yours oh my god did he cut her feet or just kind of was like threatening her it says she said dragged across so we don't know so i would think i think she'd say cut yeah anyway you're right he tells her to look down and close her eyes and not to look at him and then she does it he takes his ninja mask off his face and wraps it around her head as a blindfold um and then he says it's a shame you can't see me i'm half black and half white and I'm a very handsome man. What a weird power move.

[686] Yeah, for sure.

[687] He starts asking her how much money she has.

[688] She offers to drive him to the bank.

[689] She says she'll give him everything she has in the bank.

[690] You know, she's bargaining, obviously.

[691] She says, let me write you a check.

[692] I'll give you everything I have.

[693] He says to her, you're going to have a bad accident, lady.

[694] Oh, my God.

[695] Yeah.

[696] He holds a knife to her throat.

[697] he binds her ankles and her hands behind her back.

[698] And I just also say that if someone either lets you see them when they're attacking you or says to you what they look like, then I would be like, oh, shit, I'm not getting away from this to identify him.

[699] That's right.

[700] Yeah.

[701] You know?

[702] Yeah.

[703] Yeah.

[704] Yeah, I think that's very realistic fear.

[705] So he starts to explain to her what his deal is and basically says that he's been hiding in her attic.

[706] for two days.

[707] So he knows that the husband is golfing all day.

[708] No. And he knows that the son has gone all day.

[709] He knows no one's coming for her.

[710] He knows he's not going to get interrupted.

[711] And then he says, I'm going to rape you.

[712] She begs for mercy as a Christian woman.

[713] He says it doesn't matter what he does to her because no one's ever going to catch him.

[714] So he says, get back on the bed.

[715] And then he rapes her.

[716] And when he's done, he goes and takes a shower.

[717] and he puts his ninja suit back on.

[718] No. So she now is so scared that he's going to kill her.

[719] She doesn't try to move.

[720] She doesn't try to escape.

[721] He cuts her hands apart.

[722] He pulls off the blindfold.

[723] He shows her a check that he's taken out of her purse, that he's written out to the amount of $600.

[724] And then he tells her to write his name on the check, Troy Eugene Wigley.

[725] He gave her his full name.

[726] To write on the check.

[727] What the fuck?

[728] So she writes it.

[729] Then he says to lay on the floor in the bathroom in the fetal position and she does it and she says she feels the right side of her head explode.

[730] And what's happened is he's hit her in the head with a hammer.

[731] Oh no. Hammer is always my nightmare.

[732] It's so gross.

[733] Oh my God.

[734] She feels her head explode.

[735] Yeah.

[736] That's so descriptive.

[737] And she doesn't know what's going on, obviously.

[738] Like that's the thing on that show that freaks me out all the time.

[739] Yeah.

[740] People get shot in the head, and they're sitting there telling their story, completely regular, like it was you or I. And they've been shot in the head.

[741] And when they describe it, it's that thing where that, because you don't know what happened.

[742] It's like all of a sudden there was a weird sound in my ear.

[743] Like the way, the personal experience.

[744] That's why I'm obsessed with that show.

[745] It's the personal experience of it.

[746] I don't think I really understand.

[747] And that's probably what the show is too, is like I don't comprehend being blindfolded and how specific.

[748] specifically scary that must be like I don't think about that part you know where it's like you actually are not aware of anything in your life going on and all you have are your thoughts right you don't get to experience it I don't think about that you know like yeah that sounds I need to I need to put myself in that position and think about it or you don't have to yeah that's true you don't have to okay I mean you don't have okay all right I feel so obligated to put my myself in these victim's shoes so I can well that's good I mean it's about empathy yeah but it's just to me it's also just medically fascinating like you would think if somebody got hit if you got hit in the head with a hammer intentionally you're not going to survive that no and people do people survive all kinds of shit yeah fucking crazy okay so then he stabs her in the left breast oh no so then he hits her in the head again stabs her twice in the back of the neck.

[749] Oh, my God.

[750] It's going to get worse.

[751] Don't worry, it gets worse.

[752] Then he tries to, I'll wait until you stop sipping coffee.

[753] Because I'm going to spit everywhere.

[754] He tries to stab her in the skull, but the knife won't go in.

[755] I can't.

[756] So he hammers the knife into her.

[757] Oh!

[758] All right.

[759] I can't do this.

[760] It's, I also thinks that Vince is in the other room listening to this all thing.

[761] I mean, he's horrified.

[762] by...

[763] There's no way he doesn't have earbuds in.

[764] Because Vince doesn't like true crime.

[765] It's true.

[766] You're right.

[767] He's got those headphones in.

[768] But this is the thing about, and I won't say it again.

[769] This is the 19th time I've said it.

[770] It's her telling the story.

[771] I know.

[772] She's the one going, then he hammered the knife into my skull.

[773] So there's that part of it where it's a person who went through this and came out the other side.

[774] Came out.

[775] Okay.

[776] Oh, Jesus.

[777] Then he...

[778] One last thing.

[779] I'm here.

[780] I'm here with you.

[781] He tries to pull the knife out.

[782] it won't come out so he's shaking her head around your hand movement just now okay he's he's trying to get it out he eventually puts his foot on her head to pull the knife out she can she feels all this but then she starts to go out of consciousness honestly i'm i'm kind of getting a little woozy right now really like i'm sweating a little and yeah this is bad that's a bad one uh so she's going in and out of consciousness she doesn't know where he is She looks into the bedroom and he's standing there with the, and he doesn't have the ninja outfit on anymore.

[783] And he screams, put your head back down.

[784] So she stops moving.

[785] She's like, and he comes and he pulls her wedding rings off.

[786] So she's like, oh, he's going to kill me for sure.

[787] She's freezing cold.

[788] She's lost so much blood.

[789] But she knows he's going to kill me. So she has to do something.

[790] So he walks away.

[791] Once he pulls those rings off, he leaves.

[792] And she doesn't know where he is, but she decides she has.

[793] has to this whole time she's been in the bathroom yeah um she's like i have to get out of here so she pulls herself along the ground out of the bathroom through the bedroom and pushes herself down a flight of stairs to get downstairs to the phone oh my god and she gets to the phone she what drove me insane when i watched this for the first time she called her parents no but i don't know if it's because it was 1986 so maybe the 911 system wasn't in place entirely yeah maybe it was like so rule or maybe her brain just wasn't functioning correctly and the only phone number that could come to her was her her family's like childhood home that would make perfect sense i remember mine still oh you gave the area code too shit well whoever call someone no don't call that uh can you bleep out part of it stephen we're so proud to know our own phone i know that we give out our social security number um okay so yeah basically she goes out of consciences for a little while the next time she remembers anything she heard her father screaming he he came in with the EMTs so they all found her kind of together they load her up and she hears two EMTs talking over her about how she's not going to make it oh my god and that's in her head she's like I am too going to make it she that's when she like turned fuck yeah girl it's so awesome and she's just basically like this man is not going to take my life from me is not happening that is amazing so uh they take get her to the hospital She has so many stab wounds.

[794] She needs over 600 stitches.

[795] Oh, my God.

[796] I think in the end, she ended up, he stopped her over 30 times.

[797] He was 18 years old.

[798] Troy Wigley was arrested at the bank trying to cash the check that he forced her to write to him.

[799] He's convicted of aggravated robbery.

[800] He's sentenced to life in prison.

[801] Oh, thank God.

[802] Yeah.

[803] um i i looked up his name i looked up her i looked up a bunch of stuff to try to find out what that was about yeah because it sounds like one of those things where if they didn't have evidence here or there they were just trying to get him on something that stuck blah blah blah but to me it's so insane if she's been stabbed multiple times yeah why aggravated robbery is what he actually gets convicted on right because attempted murder for some reason isn't treated as murder.

[804] It's not murder.

[805] That's why it's not treated as murder.

[806] No, but that drives me crazy.

[807] I know, but it's not...

[808] I know, I know.

[809] They have to be two different things.

[810] I know.

[811] I mean, they just do.

[812] But, so she makes a full recovery.

[813] It takes her years of pain and hard work.

[814] She said she spent a lot of time in denial about what happened to her.

[815] She spent months crying, obviously.

[816] Who wouldn't?

[817] She had multiple surgeries for all of her wounds.

[818] She developed a lot of strong.

[819] stress -related illnesses that lasted for years because of the trauma.

[820] Her marriage crumbled.

[821] She was left without her job or money.

[822] But she was determined to come out on the other side stronger.

[823] What an amazing woman.

[824] So she realizes she has to get help.

[825] So she gets counseling and she joins a victim support group.

[826] Amazing.

[827] And she decides that her first goal, that she has to set goals for herself so she can recover, like she has to make it a step -by -step process.

[828] So her first goal is she's going to release all the rage and anger that she has about what happened to her because she realized that's how she's going to get better for herself.

[829] And then she starts to speak out for victims' rights and what needs to change in what is what she calls our offender -focused criminal justice system.

[830] In 1991, she's appointed by then -governor.

[831] Anne Richards to serve on the Texas Board of Criminal Justice, and she did it for six years.

[832] Holy shit.

[833] It was an unpaid position.

[834] So while she was there, she started, and it went from part -time to full -time, and she just started doing all kinds of research on the Texas criminal justice system, on victims' rights, on rehabilitation for prisoners as opposed to just punitive, you know, lock them up and throw away the key.

[835] In 1996, both the Texas Corrections Association.

[836] and the Texas crime victim clearinghouse established awards in her name to recognize her work on behalf of crime victims.

[837] Because of her tireless advocacy for rehabilitation of offenders and her dedication to the victim's rights, in 1995, a 500 -bed female substance abuse treatment unit was named after her.

[838] Oh, my God.

[839] In 1997, she won the National Crime Victim Service Award, the highest federal award for service to victims.

[840] In 1999, she was named one of Texas as women of this century.

[841] Holy shit.

[842] And in 2001, she was the mediator for a court TV documentary called Meeting with a Killer One Family's Journey, which was nominated for an Emmy in 2002.

[843] How have I not watched that?

[844] Court TV, maybe it's just old.

[845] Yeah.

[846] And Ellen Halbert is presently, well, presently at the time of the article that I was reading, so it might not be right now.

[847] but she is the director of the victim witness division at the district attorney's office in Travis County, Texas.

[848] What an amazing human being.

[849] Isn't that fucking nuts?

[850] Yeah, I'm trying to focus on that part instead of the other parts.

[851] Because I feel.

[852] Yeah, I think that's the point.

[853] I feel nauseous, like, in a whole, like, because it's so funny how when it's a survivor, I feel like we've, I think we're both in the mindset that like don't get too disgusting and graphic when it's, someone who's died but when it's a survivor you can explain everything that happened because they survived that well and because it's her story right so it's the way she tells it right and she wants told that way she tells it totally totally yeah that's how she wants it to be told yeah so yeah that that's insane and amazing and what a fucking inspiration and badass motherfucker yeah she's rad yeah wow that was incredible um mine isn't so good great mine is not so positive all right I'm not going to tell you the name of it because you're going to fuck oops you're going to know it pretty quickly and uh yeah June 12th 1977 nearly 140 Girl Scouts arrived at Camp Scott here we go amazing the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders this is so fucking awful yeah and there's a lot of stuff I didn't know about it I think I've kind of known the murder part, but didn't know what came after it.

[854] So they arrived at Camp Scott, a sprawling, heavily wooded property, southeast of Locust Grove in northeast, Oklahoma.

[855] And the Girl Scouts had been coming to this spot every summer for 50 years.

[856] Three months before camp was supposed to start.

[857] What?

[858] Just that idea.

[859] 50 years of historical 9 to 11 -year -olds.

[860] the woods.

[861] It just immediately made me go, like, there's somebody that knew they came back every year.

[862] There's somebody that, like, knew the, knew they would be there at that time.

[863] Yeah.

[864] And I went to Girl Scout camp in a situation, like, probably exactly the same setup as this story in this camp.

[865] So I can picture exactly what happened.

[866] Sorry, I just remembered.

[867] When I was doing, remember when I did that casino gig with Julian McCullough, it was, it was in Oklahoma.

[868] Oh, yeah.

[869] The woman who was the booker for that casino, which was the best gig, it was so much fun, and I'm so sorry, I can't remember your name off the top.

[870] Yeah.

[871] I will get it eventually.

[872] Drove me by the street you turned down to get to this girl's gap, which is now a band, I believe, yeah.

[873] Or maybe they turned it in something else, but we drove all around where she was like, want me to show it to you?

[874] And I was like, yes, I do want you to show it to me. But we couldn't, it was like, too far.

[875] She was like it's basically over there.

[876] Yeah.

[877] Because it's the middle of you know, big flat.

[878] I think there's like a long walkway.

[879] I think that's called Cookie Lane.

[880] Three months before camp was to start.

[881] I think they're having like all the counselors come and learns what they're going to be doing.

[882] April 1977, a counselor at Camp Scott had found that her tent had been ransacked and her donuts were stolen.

[883] And in the donut box, in the empty box was a note warning that three girls would be murdered at the camp in the future.

[884] No. I feel like I'd never heard that before.

[885] Everyone wrote it off as a prank.

[886] And so June 12th, 1977, first official night of the two weeks day at Camp Scott.

[887] The night is a big thunderstorm so they don't have their usual activities.

[888] Everyone kind of just hunkers down into their tents.

[889] So they had like, it was like the canvas tent material, but like a wood floor.

[890] Yeah.

[891] that's actually when I went to camp that's what the tents were like yeah yeah we they call them right that when I went to girls cow camp it was like that too um and you're like shitty cot bed and stuff yeah with your itchy fucking uh what's it called sleeping bag yeah it's all very uncomfortable like it's fun at first and then you're like I my bed is way better yeah and taking a shower you're only allowed 30 second showers it sucks yeah I think there was probably a drought at the time and so they timed the showers and they like they literally shut off 30 seconds it must have been like 45 seconds or something like that still yeah they're like we're teaching you how to conserve water but it's like teaching you how to be dirty yeah um I hated it uh so they hunker down for the night it has no lights in any of the cabins they just have flashlights so tent eight is known as Kiowa and in that tent usually it's four girls to attend no counselor counselors in any of the tents um The three friends are Lori Lee Farmer, she's eight, Doris Denise Milner, who's 10, and Michelle Guse, who's nine.

[892] They're all from Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, which is a suburb of Tulsa, and Kiyawa, their cabin was located the furthest from the camp counselor's tents.

[893] It's about 86 yards away, and it's partially obscured by the shower for the camp.

[894] So it was like the most remote cabin.

[895] And 86 yards is like almost a football field.

[896] Is that?

[897] I didn't know.

[898] A football field's 100 yards.

[899] Yeah.

[900] So it's like, that's so far away.

[901] It might be feet.

[902] I heard, I was one of those things where like in different articles.

[903] I read different things.

[904] Oh, okay.

[905] Yeah, yeah.

[906] That happens all the time where you're reading this exact same information, but that happens all the time where it's like, is this person's name Jerry or James.

[907] But it just changes per article.

[908] Or someone in Reddit is like, this is wrong.

[909] And you're like.

[910] But I wouldn't be.

[911] you know the way those things are like set up to make them more like in nature and 86 feet is still a long way off from responsible not even for nine and 10 year old but there's probably 16 year old girls who are counselors so it's and you can see like they have a layout online to show exactly where it is and it's absolutely on its own so okay so that night it said there's a book called in the camps called the camps got murders by c s kev He says that two counselors had been frightened by two men at the camp that night.

[912] And some campers said they saw a man in army boots behind a tent.

[913] There's so much pre -shit.

[914] At 1 .30 in the morning, someone hears moaning out near Camp Kiowa.

[915] Everyone's in their tent.

[916] Carla, a camp counselor, she checks out the noise and described it as a low, guttural moaning.

[917] But it would stop whenever her flashlight came near.

[918] Also, around 2 a .m., the tent flap of tent 7 is opened.

[919] Three of the girls inside are sleeping, but the fourth girl stated that she noticed a beam of light moving around the interior from outside with a silhouette of a large figure behind it.

[920] And then she says the figure moved off toward tent number 8, which is Kiowa.

[921] Nora just came back from camp.

[922] Your nine -year -old niece?

[923] Ten -year -old niece.

[924] I mean, this is...

[925] This is rough.

[926] Can you imagine?

[927] Okay, well, imagine getting this call of your sister getting this call.

[928] Don't imagine it.

[929] No, I imagine things like that all the time.

[930] I know.

[931] It's so hard not to.

[932] That's like the, isn't that just the standard thing of like, oh, yeah.

[933] For a while, I told you that.

[934] For a while, I couldn't stop doing it.

[935] I finally had to call my sister.

[936] And I was like, I can't, I just can't stop imagining something.

[937] But my sister goes, oh, yeah, I do that all the time.

[938] Yeah.

[939] I do it all the time.

[940] And I was like, oh, okay.

[941] She's just like, too bad.

[942] That's how it is.

[943] That's when you love a child.

[944] That's what happens.

[945] That's what, that's part of it.

[946] But I get it.

[947] So, all right.

[948] Mowing sounds are heard throughout the night, throughout the camp.

[949] At around 3 a .m., a girl in the Cherokee section across the words heard a scream coming from the direction of the Kiowa cabinate.

[950] And here it says it was located about two city blocks away, and she heard moaning.

[951] A girl in another cabin also heard a scream, and the scream, the cries she said sounded like, Mama, mama.

[952] Someone yelling, mama, mama.

[953] I know.

[954] The next morning, 6 a .m., June 13th, a camp counselor's on her way to the showers, and she stumbles upon a horrific scene at near 10 to 8.

[955] How old?

[956] She's probably six.

[957] It's a camp counselor.

[958] Oh, a camp counselor.

[959] Sorry.

[960] I'm in here.

[961] So the night before, somewhere between two and four in the morning, someone had cut his way into the tent.

[962] Here it gets horrible.

[963] He bludgeoned and rapes Lori and Michelle.

[964] They had been struck and killed in the tent while they were sleeping.

[965] And they had been bound and, and then they bound, or the person bound and gagged Doris and took her outside, raped and strangled her as well.

[966] So then the two girls who are in the tent are like stuffed into the bottom of their sleeping bags.

[967] and their sleeping bags are pulled to where Doris is on a path about 150 feet away from the tent.

[968] So all three girls are left together on like a trail.

[969] Goussay and Farmer sleeping bags had their bodies that were inside.

[970] They had bloody bed sheets that had been used.

[971] The killer tried to wipe down the blood that was on the floor of the cabin, which is so weird.

[972] And they also found a roll of black duct tape and a flashlight.

[973] the murderer had discarded.

[974] I was thinking, like, was his blood in that blood, and that's why he was trying to clean it up?

[975] Who, no?

[976] Yeah.

[977] Yeah, there was bloody bed sheets.

[978] It seemed like after the attacks, he tried to cover his tracks.

[979] Yeah.

[980] Which almost seems like he was panicking.

[981] Well, and so then, hey, don't leave your flashlight.

[982] Yeah.

[983] It sounds like he was panicking.

[984] Maybe can't realize what he had done, tried to fix it, you know?

[985] Um, okay.

[986] So four days later, so the police come, they, you know, they, they, they clean up the scene.

[987] And four days later, you know, there's this insane manhunt that starts, like the biggest manhunt in Oklahoma history.

[988] Four days later, police find sunglasses belonging to a Camp Scott counselor and a boot print that matched the one found at the scene of a crime in some, in a cave near the camp.

[989] So they find that and they also find a message written on the wall in one of the caves that says the killer was here, bye -bye fools, and then the date, 61777.

[990] They also find tape, plastic from a garbage bag, similar to that raptor on the flashlight found next to the girls in a newspaper from the same edition as the piece discovered in the flashlight left next to the girls.

[991] and they also find two photos, they find two photos of women.

[992] The photos are determined to be from the wedding of a prison guard, and they're traced back to a man named Gene Leroy Hart, who had been working at the photo lab in Granite Reformatory and had developed the photos of the wedding of the prison guard when he was serving time for kidnapping and first degree rape convictions in 1966.

[993] So he had these photos of these women, for some reason left them behind, and they were able to trace them back to him.

[994] Okay.

[995] But they, so that means he developed these pictures because it was his job at the prison.

[996] Yeah.

[997] But those pictures were never given to the prison guard?

[998] She probably made copies of them for himself.

[999] Maybe they were two pretty women and he wanted to keep the photos of women.

[1000] But it's not, the prison guard is in the clear.

[1001] Yeah.

[1002] It's not the prison guard.

[1003] Yeah.

[1004] So we'll talk about Jean Lee Roy Hart.

[1005] He's a 34 -year -old Cherokee Native American.

[1006] He's 5 '10, weighs about 200 pounds.

[1007] He's pretty built.

[1008] He's like a thick dude.

[1009] He's got black hair, brown eyes.

[1010] He's born and raised in Locust Grove, which is right next to the camp.

[1011] He was a high school football star.

[1012] He was bright and popular.

[1013] One of his teachers said he just wasn't the kind of kid you would have thought would have turned out bad.

[1014] But he was an immediate suspect.

[1015] At the time of the murders, he was on the run from police.

[1016] because he had escaped jail in 1973.

[1017] He was 22 when he was arrested and accused of abducting two pregnant women from a Tulsa Club, raping one of them, and he pleaded guilty and was sentenced to three concurrent 10 -year prison terms, which is 10 years, as we know.

[1018] Three concurrent 10 -year terms is 10 years, not 30 years.

[1019] Exactly.

[1020] Which is absurd.

[1021] He's paroled after for raping and kidnapping two people.

[1022] pregnant women.

[1023] He's paroled after 28 months.

[1024] Hmm.

[1025] Mm -hmm.

[1026] He's arrested again in 1969.

[1027] This time he's charged with four counts of first -degree burglary.

[1028] Please not guilty.

[1029] He's found guilty.

[1030] And for this, this and his past crimes, then he's finally sentenced to a maximum of 305 years in prison.

[1031] Jesus.

[1032] So you know that judge probably was like a gas that he got out so quickly for rape and kind of threw the book at him, maybe?

[1033] guessing maybe the only problem is that if he was set up for the first one then his i don't think that's the only problem well i know you don't think he was well he pled guilty to that i know lots of people do that i know i know um so he had grown up a half a mile north of camp scott and there were other suspects including a convicted rapist named bill stevens the couple who knew a couple who knew stephen said he borrowed a flashlight that matched the description of the one used left in the crime scene a few days before the murder, and he showed up with what looked like blood on his boots.

[1034] He told them he had experienced car trouble in Locust Grove.

[1035] He denied everything.

[1036] He said he hadn't been in the area, but a scout at the camp testified that she had seen a man who looked like him at the camp.

[1037] But they still focused on heart.

[1038] The manhunt would go down as the largest in state history.

[1039] He took an entire year to catch him.

[1040] He was just capable.

[1041] to cave, house to house on the run.

[1042] So they found him in April, 1978.

[1043] He'd been hiding out in the area, and each cave released, each cave had clues and evidence related to the Girl Scout murders.

[1044] So they, you know, confirming to police that he was their man. They also found a mirror and a toy pipe, which another counselor testified had been taken from her tent.

[1045] He went to trial for the murders and faced three counts of first -degree murder, He was acquitted after just five hours of deliberation.

[1046] So this whole community of people, and so many people in the community, rallied behind him and thought it was a setup that the evidence had been planted, that he was a good, you know, a good kid.

[1047] The, of course, Cherokee Indians, not of course, but they backed.

[1048] They didn't come out as saying they thought he hadn't done it, but they said they were giving him money for his defense to support him, because as an American and Native American, they didn't think he would get a fair trial unless he had the money to represent himself, which obviously is true, but they said specifically this isn't, we're not saying we think he's innocent or guilty.

[1049] They just wanted him to have a fair trial.

[1050] Exactly.

[1051] Right.

[1052] So, because probably in that area, the go -to thing is if something happens, why don't you go look on the reservation?

[1053] Why don't you go look at a Native American?

[1054] Exactly.

[1055] And all the other suspects that they had and that are still around were white.

[1056] So they just went out.

[1057] It seemed like they went after him.

[1058] But he was acquitted.

[1059] Everyone in the courtroom cheered, which if you read articles, the three families of the three killed girls were just so devastated when people were cheering that he got off.

[1060] Of course.

[1061] You know?

[1062] And the jurors ended up saying there were too many loose ends.

[1063] Too many things didn't add up.

[1064] One juror said none of us knew whether he did it or didn't.

[1065] We were shocked that they didn't have more evidence than what they had.

[1066] So they just couldn't convict him.

[1067] But because of his previous jailbreak in his earlier crimes, he was taken to prison to serve the remaining 300 years of his previous rape and burglary convictions.

[1068] So he's taken in prison anyways.

[1069] Three weeks later, in 1979, at 35 years old, while jogging in the prison yard, he dies of a heart attack.

[1070] some people think he didn't do it or or that he didn't act alone there's physical evidence left behind in the crime scene that was recovered during the autopsy that indicates that two offenders were involved in the crime including two different knots being used to tie up the girls which I think is always kind of a weird sign right and the girls were separated and died in different manners evidence presented at heart's trial that was used to rule him out included a footprint in the blood of the floor of the cabin that is a size 10, Hart's feet were closer to an 11 and a half.

[1071] There's also a fingerprint on the flashlight found at the scene that wasn't hearts, which I don't think is that weird.

[1072] You know, it's not like one person would have held that flashlight, period.

[1073] You know, there could have been a lot of people.

[1074] In the life of the flashlight.

[1075] Right, right.

[1076] Then a bunch of DNA tests have been done on biological evidence from the crime scene since the murders throughout the years.

[1077] There's been nothing conclusive that has come, although in 1989, so of five aspects of DNA tested from the scene, three matched some bodily fluids that were taken from heart.

[1078] Only one in 7 ,700 American Indians would match the samples of that fluid.

[1079] But because there were only three instead of five matched, their results were officially deemed inconclusive.

[1080] but an analysis of sperm samples showed that only 0 .002 % of the population met the characteristics contained in the evidence and heart was included in this.

[1081] Wow.

[1082] So those numbers are way huger than one in 77 ,000 or whatever.

[1083] And if they had that technology in 1979, maybe he would have been, that would have been enough evidence for the jury.

[1084] They kind of went on all circumstantial evidence.

[1085] Because they had to.

[1086] Because that's all they had.

[1087] Right.

[1088] Which, you know, it's almost.

[1089] like if they could have waited to have, you know, a lot of times they'll wait to have more evidence to bring him to trial.

[1090] I don't know.

[1091] Yeah, but you can't wait years.

[1092] Yeah, but he's in prison anyways.

[1093] Yeah, but it's a speedy trial, no matter what.

[1094] That's true.

[1095] And the families wants justice.

[1096] Yeah, you can't be like, you know, across her fingers that good science is coming.

[1097] Also, because back then, I think they had no idea the kind of forensics that we're going to eventually exist.

[1098] I mean, like, sometimes they're like, like in the 80s, I feel like they are finally like, well, this new technology is coming out.

[1099] A lot of times you hear on like forensic files, let's wait until that technology has, you know, every, every year, I feel like there's a new way of testing some fluid or some stain that they weren't able to do before to extract a different strain of DNA.

[1100] I don't know if I sound like, I don't know what I'm fucking talking about.

[1101] I mean, yeah.

[1102] Pretty standard.

[1103] Yeah.

[1104] Not like science.

[1105] I think this is what we do.

[1106] We're just basically repeating what we watch.

[1107] on forensic files and other shows that tell us about DNA.

[1108] They postulating.

[1109] And you know what's so interesting is in this trial, they used things that are now discounted like hair samples.

[1110] They found a hair that they said matched him.

[1111] There was another thing that they found that they said matched him that now wouldn't be admissible in court.

[1112] Is it a fiber thing?

[1113] Probably fibers, yeah, that now would never be admissible in court.

[1114] Yeah.

[1115] So it's, yeah, it's still kind of weird.

[1116] Let's see, members of Hart's Native American family Also accused the police of going after Hart Because he's a Native American Many people said that the sheriff of town Was really vindictive because Hart had made him look bad For escaping twice, I just spit And being on the lamb so long He was a lamb for four years Which makes the sheriff look really stupid So he tries to throw the book at him Wow And a former prosecutor tried to turn the killing and hearts arrest into a position as a state attorney general and to write a book about it.

[1117] So for monetary gain as well.

[1118] So that's kind of their proof that he was railroaded.

[1119] Yeah.

[1120] So after he died, authorities didn't pursue that many other suspects after the killings of, and I want to say their names again because, you know, they're kind of So Laura Lee Farmer, Doris Denise Milner, and Michelle Goussay, no other suspects were really pursued or arrested.

[1121] And then all the parents went on to do all this, of course, victims advocacy.

[1122] They were all, you know, they all are interviewed and ended up being these incredible people and doing good things afterwards.

[1123] words.

[1124] But when the sister of Lori, when she went back to school after the murder of her sister, two years after and after he had been acquitted, he had been acquitted, she wrote a school, and this is just so sad to me. She wrote a school paper, and in it she said, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all, except for my family.

[1125] Oh, no. I know.

[1126] And that's the story of the Oklahoma Girl Scout murder.

[1127] back isn't that sad it's so sad these little girls also to me it's just like that crime this all i think about who knows what really happened like the idea that someone hides in caves when they're on the lamb is the perfect way to set somebody up to put shit in a cave go find a cave why would you this is like jack the ripper stuff why would you write on the wall yeah if you did this thing you would cover all your tracks and get the fuck out.

[1128] I'm going to go riding on the wall.

[1129] Bye, bye, motherfuckers or whatever.

[1130] That's so stupid.

[1131] With a date, putting the date.

[1132] A date and like, yeah, and so.

[1133] Unless you were taunting the police.

[1134] Unless you were taunting the police or unless the police were trying to set somebody up to perfectly match what he'd already done in that kind of making a murderer way, which is like, we don't like you, we don't like your type.

[1135] We're going to take care of business.

[1136] Yeah, and we've been trying to find you.

[1137] We don't have any more budget to put into this.

[1138] but if you're this child murderer and rapist, then we can put all of our resources into finding you.

[1139] The only problem, I was just going to say, the only problem that I mean, obviously, the thing that makes me upset about that, then if that is what they're doing, if their agenda turns from finding the person who did it into getting the person that has shamed them or whatever fucking problem there is, then we still have a person who stabbed three nine -year -old girls with a fucking night.

[1140] and raped them, walking around the world.

[1141] Yeah.

[1142] That's the problem to me. Yeah.

[1143] And so it's one of those cases where I don't know if he's guilty or not, but I could argue either way, you know, that the evidence was planted in the caves or he was taunting them.

[1144] You know, it's either one is plausible.

[1145] And then arguing, like, I hadn't thought about what you said, which is, did he not commit those rapes?

[1146] If he committed those rapes to me, it's obvious that he was also capable, you know, of this crime.

[1147] And I also, I'm, I'm leaning more towards him having, being more than one person who committed those crimes because of the ropes being different knots, because of, yeah, them being separated and, and being murdered in different ways, you know, two of the girls were immediately knocked unconscious and left in the cabin.

[1148] And one wasn't, you know, it's, it's weird.

[1149] It's all different, like, MOs, yeah.

[1150] Yeah, and people argue that how would one person be able to handle these three girls, which I think is a bullshit argument because two girls were unconscious, but not only that, we know that these predators can scare especially small girls into obeying them or else.

[1151] Richard Speck.

[1152] It was eight, I believe, off the top of my head.

[1153] Eight nurses, fully grown women, who he got to all stay in a, a room while he took them out one by one raped and murdered them and they can't like the woman who was hiding was just like you don't understand it was he had a gun and he kept being very soothing or whatever so like that can being able to control people when you are the attacker yeah is I love when people argue that shit we're just like what you fucking talking about we're not sitting those people weren't sitting on a couch drinking coffee casually they were they said if you scream we're going to kill your family yes like we're going to as simple as that But we, if you frame, I'll shoot your friend over here, that kind of stuff.

[1154] I mean, I hate that argument.

[1155] So that I think you can't really.

[1156] But other little things like the different kinds of ropes, it's just, it just feels like if there's ever a murder that should have been solved.

[1157] Right.

[1158] You know, three 10 year old girls at Girl Scout camp, they should have fucking figured out the best way to figure out who did that.

[1159] Well, I feel, I know they're also doing more, they're continuing the deal.

[1160] DNA testing.

[1161] So as it does get more advanced, they're trying.

[1162] The case is still open.

[1163] Yeah.

[1164] And they are like sending different kinds of like the new swabs.

[1165] They can actually test.

[1166] They're still doing that.

[1167] So there still might be an answer one day.

[1168] Don't you think it's possible?

[1169] Now, you know I love to devil's advocate and I love to go like what is the thing that isn't being thought of or something?

[1170] Yeah.

[1171] The idea that he's jogging in jail and dies of a heart attack at age 35.

[1172] Yeah.

[1173] is interesting to me. Not that it isn't possible, and there's some people that have congenital heart problems.

[1174] That's what they said.

[1175] You know, he's got, that runs in his family.

[1176] He was really out of shape, but 35 definitely.

[1177] Then why is he jogging?

[1178] Yeah.

[1179] Oh, you're going to, now you're going to get it all together once you're fucking in jail.

[1180] Yeah.

[1181] I, you know what?

[1182] I got it.

[1183] I'm going to lose this last 20 pounds.

[1184] That's definitely a good argument.

[1185] And it's the thing of like, if that DNA does come back to him, which it kind of seems like it did in these other ways, people are going to say, well, So anything unless it comes back as someone else doing it, no one's ever going to fully believe that he and conclusively believe that he was the killer.

[1186] Right.

[1187] You know what I mean?

[1188] Yeah.

[1189] But then hearing that he got acquitted is just so, if you believe it was him, is so heartbreaking.

[1190] And I think the families all believed it was him.

[1191] Of course they did.

[1192] Yeah, they wanted to do.

[1193] But then.

[1194] But also it's that it makes me think of the Memphis, the West Memphis.

[1195] three.

[1196] Yeah.

[1197] When you have the perfect person who did it, you want it to be over.

[1198] Yeah.

[1199] You want to be over.

[1200] And you also want to show everyone that, or the, you know, the police force and the FBI was there.

[1201] Every, you know, that was a huge manhunt.

[1202] For a year, you want to show that you have done your due diligence and you've caught the bad guy.

[1203] Everyone can stop being afraid.

[1204] Because can you imagine you're for a year this person who has no problem raping and sodomizing a fucking nine -year -old is on the loose yeah and the neighborhood then i you know you have to look at all the photos of the three girls are just these sweet baby angel like young sweethearts and then i look at the photos of them with their siblings and it's those poor you know i feel so bad for the victim but the siblings too you know the rest of their lives must have been so horrifying yeah it's not something you ever get over.

[1205] Especially then you go and have children and you see your own nine -year -old daughter.

[1206] And, you know, how can you imagine someone hurting that person?

[1207] What a fucking monster.

[1208] Yeah.

[1209] Yeah.

[1210] They've got to figure out a way, minority report style.

[1211] To figure out who these people are conclusively.

[1212] Yeah.

[1213] I feel like that's what I feel like instead of making for -profit prisons, maybe people it should be like can we just actually focus on so that when these people exist in society we figure out a way to find them and make sure they don't do this to people well yeah we brain scan them and that brain scan tells us what they're capable of what they're lying about what even if they're sociopath you can still see that like what neurons fire when they're lying listen if they have a memory of this crime if their brains are seethru like those fish from way down deep in the deepest depths of the ocean what are their brains made of are they made of goldfish crackers are they just a ton of tiny knives in there if there are tiny knives and it's a tiny murderer is there a tiny murderer in the brain controlling it with controls if there is let's get rid of those people let's put them all on some kind of lepers island great this has been a serious waste of time thanks everybody no it hasn't maybe we'll change everything no there's lots of people working hard to change things yeah I think for sure we hear from people all the time that are like I'm going to fucking criminology school I'm a victim's advocate yeah all the time yeah it's very cool and I think like that yeah it's that idea that instead of letting politics get in the way and money Let's catch child murderers.

[1214] Let's catch adult murderers.

[1215] Let's like...

[1216] Let's catch child murderers before they child murder.

[1217] But then we're getting into some...

[1218] Predictive.

[1219] Right.

[1220] Well, that is what minority board is about.

[1221] Right.

[1222] Which is like...

[1223] That and great graphics.

[1224] What's the ethnicity about?

[1225] And Tom Cruise, it is best before the fucking downhill.

[1226] You guys who were younger, don't remember that Tom Cruise was a heartthroat.

[1227] You don't remember.

[1228] It was 2010.

[1229] Seven years ago.

[1230] though oh my god that's seven years ago seven years i know that's i know i know i mean it's time goes by i gotta go to work okay that's right you have to go to work oh my god how is it weird this is coming out in two hours yeah stephen can sorry for the delay i'm i'm sure we're gonna get i'm sure stephen's gonna get get and already has gotten lots of messages when we were texting yesterday about is it okay if we do it in the morning and stephen's like yeah it's going to be late and people get upset you know we should let them No. And then we, and then I said, okay, just tell them it's your fault.

[1231] Stephen.

[1232] David.

[1233] Tell them it.

[1234] You did it.

[1235] Stephen.

[1236] It's all me. Elvis can't meow on this one.

[1237] I know.

[1238] Where's the kitten?

[1239] So you can hit it in the face?

[1240] I know.

[1241] Where's that kitten?

[1242] I was going to make her meow.

[1243] Listen, I love her.

[1244] Fucking Doddy.

[1245] She's an angel baby.

[1246] Once Elvis is home.

[1247] Hold good thoughts in your mind and prayers for Elvis.

[1248] for his quick recovery so you can come back and eat cookies and meow with us soon and until we see you again stay sexy and don't get murdered bye