Willem Dafoe

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Rather, and I'm joined by Mrs. Padman.

[2] Hello.

[3] Hello.

[4] Our last Monday interview of the year.

[5] Oh, interview, but we'll be back to talk about best of, yes, in Christmas he gifts.

[6] Okay, good.

[7] So I don't have to sing all this right now and I don't have to ring any reindeer bells.

[8] Please don't.

[9] We have an update.

[10] On our holiday sweater.

[11] Yes.

[12] So we've been doing a special holiday.

[13] limited a dish sweatshirt for the past two years we did it two years in a row okay or three not three i think three we had the yellow one then we had the one that i drew with the dick and balls yes and then the one with the robot okay we've had three i just don't really count the first one yeah because although if you have it i still see people in it and it's beautiful it might be better than all the others if you wear it i count it yes but if you don't i just didn't draw it that's all Yeah.

[14] To me it's the ones you draw are the real ones.

[15] Yeah.

[16] So you have drawn another sweatshirt for this year.

[17] You had the idea.

[18] You had the concept and then I drew it.

[19] Yes.

[20] And it's really cute, really, really good drawing.

[21] And I love it.

[22] And just keep your eyes peeled for those to go on sale.

[23] They're not ready yet.

[24] Right.

[25] We got to get printed.

[26] Now the drawing's done.

[27] Now we go to the prints.

[28] We were a little late, but we thought better late than never.

[29] Yeah, that's what we decided.

[30] Better late than never.

[31] So probably January those go on sale.

[32] Okay.

[33] Maybe if we're lucky, you could order them in December and give someone a, like a printed coming, you know?

[34] Sure.

[35] We could do a pre -order.

[36] Yeah, because then people can print it out and say this is coming.

[37] Yeah, this is coming sometime in 2020.

[38] Yeah.

[39] To further aggravate everyone.

[40] Yeah.

[41] No, but yeah.

[42] We do apologize on our lack of punctuality.

[43] But it's worth the way.

[44] It's a really good one.

[45] Yeah.

[46] All right, guys, so just keep your eyes peeled.

[47] Yes, keep them peeled.

[48] This was fun and unique on all the levels because we did it on a Sunday, which we don't ever do.

[49] And it's with, in my lifetime, perhaps the, I mean, I'm going to put Willem in a tie with John Taturo as the most unique fun actors.

[50] Character actor.

[51] Yes, that I just, as I said to him in this interview, I've never had an illusion I'd be on a set with him.

[52] Like, he and I are never going to be in the same kind of movie.

[53] So he just ruled him off into like he lived in an ethereal plane that would never interstate.

[54] sect with ours.

[55] Kind of like John Batiste is a true artist.

[56] Yes.

[57] And it's really fun when we get to have those types of people on.

[58] Art in their soul.

[59] Yeah.

[60] Willem Defoe, man. He's just walking the walk.

[61] He has been nominated four times for the Oscar.

[62] So impressive.

[63] Yeah.

[64] He, of course, was in Spider -Man inside the lighthouse.

[65] Platoon.

[66] Well, best death scene of all time.

[67] It's iconic.

[68] The Antichrist.

[69] He has a new movie that is out right now in theaters with probably the best cast of 2023 imaginable.

[70] The credit list is like dumb.

[71] It's like dumb to read his credits.

[72] He's done 150 movies.

[73] And then as you're talking to them, you remember he's in every single movie.

[74] He's in every movie.

[75] Yeah.

[76] At some degree.

[77] All your favorite directors, he's worked with him multiple times.

[78] Everyone loves to invite him back.

[79] But his new movie, Poor Things.

[80] This cast is ridiculous.

[81] Emma Stone, Mark Ruffalo, our man Willem Defoe, and the sweetiest of all sweethearts from this year, Rami Youssef.

[82] Yes, Rami.

[83] Ah.

[84] And Gerard.

[85] And Gerard.

[86] Is in this movie?

[87] Everybody you'd want.

[88] This incredible.

[89] Visually dynamite of the cast of a lifetime.

[90] Please enjoy Willem Defoe.

[91] He's an object.

[92] When you stay at the shit.

[93] And I thought, you idiot, of course, I don't think about it.

[94] Yeah, but it is so lovely there.

[95] I would feel the pull to stay as well.

[96] Oh, I like it.

[97] I like it.

[98] It's back up and partying over there.

[99] I know.

[100] Yeah, I mean, it's not what it used to be.

[101] As far as funkiness, it's nicer than that now.

[102] Yeah, I know.

[103] I wish I could go back in time and see it in its heyday.

[104] Oh, God.

[105] One of the first times I ever stayed there, I was staying in bungalows, and the police lines were still up from Belushi.

[106] So it's really a marker in my head, you know?

[107] Oh, man. Classic Hollywood.

[108] I know.

[109] Room service was like just cheese sandwiches.

[110] Really?

[111] Yeah, yeah, it was very down and dirty.

[112] Now the food's great.

[113] They've stuffed it up from cheese sandwiches.

[114] Hey.

[115] Hi.

[116] How are you?

[117] How are you?

[118] Very good to meet you.

[119] Welcome, welcome.

[120] Welcome, welcome, welcome.

[121] Thanks.

[122] So sorry.

[123] I guess I'm...

[124] No, I'm early.

[125] Oh, how early were you?

[126] How long have you been there?

[127] I'm an early bird.

[128] 15 minutes or something.

[129] No!

[130] Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry.

[131] You were offered coffee and water.

[132] I'm good.

[133] Oh, you got a piece on?

[134] I do.

[135] I do get a piece.

[136] We got to coordinate that one of these times.

[137] I know, we will.

[138] Mr. Defoe, welcome.

[139] What's up?

[140] How are you?

[141] I'm good.

[142] Have you ever done?

[143] Surely you have.

[144] Podcasts?

[145] Yeah.

[146] That's one question.

[147] Very few.

[148] Okay, which ones?

[149] I can't remember.

[150] I just did one.

[151] You did.

[152] Yeah, and he said, what are you doing?

[153] I gave him the rundown of the day.

[154] And he said, you're going to do Dax?

[155] Oh, I feel flattered by that.

[156] That was the first one.

[157] Oh.

[158] Yes, I love it.

[159] Is it a secret which podcast that was?

[160] Sam Harris.

[161] Jones?

[162] Sam Ballone.

[163] Faragoza.

[164] Faragoza.

[165] Faragoza.

[166] Faragoza.

[167] Ah, sorry.

[168] He's a young guy.

[169] You don't need to do this.

[170] He's a young guy.

[171] No, I'm curious, no. But I feel, I immediately like him that he thought we would be on the list.

[172] No, well, he was like, yeah, of course.

[173] Oh, no, he was like, in fact, I said to the guy, are you in competition?

[174] Sure, sure, no, no, no competition.

[175] Talk easy?

[176] You're the big door.

[177] Oh, talk easy.

[178] Rob knows.

[179] Rob figured it out.

[180] Talk easy.

[181] Oh, this might interest you because you live in Rome part time.

[182] You've done your research.

[183] Yeah.

[184] Well, when you grew up in Wisconsin, I'm just a neighboring state in Michigan.

[185] How would you know if you did your research?

[186] Oh, my God.

[187] You know, you don't want to be rude.

[188] Flattery about.

[189] Missed something.

[190] That's so nice.

[191] So Wisconsin, Michigan, these are not too dissimilar.

[192] Yeah, unfortunately now.

[193] Yes.

[194] Very interesting, right?

[195] For different reasons, but they're kind of like brother and sister.

[196] They are.

[197] We even join at the UP.

[198] And the UP is a special place.

[199] It is up in the UP.

[200] Yeah.

[201] Ayah.

[202] Oh, yeah.

[203] But when we were growing up in Michigan on a playground, a very, very popular saying was Mama Mia, Papa Pia.

[204] Oh, boy.

[205] Do you know the rest?

[206] This sounds familiar.

[207] Baby got diarrhea.

[208] Ah, okay.

[209] Mama Mia.

[210] Is it new to you?

[211] I think we had a different flavor.

[212] So you'd say, Mama Mia, Papa Pia, baby got diarrhea.

[213] And a friend of mine and I were sitting around talking about if we had a time machine.

[214] And I said, you know what I actually think I'd want to use the time machine to discover is the very first.

[215] time that was said, Mamma Mia, Papa, Pia.

[216] And here's what I figured out.

[217] I want to know if you think this holds any water.

[218] It was probably like 1700s.

[219] Some Italians took their child to the town doctor.

[220] He looked at the doctor and he said, Mamma Mia, Papa Pia.

[221] Baby's got a diarrhea.

[222] Like it was very positive.

[223] Like, I know you're scared, but it's just diarrhea.

[224] No, but a lot of people died of diarrhea back then.

[225] Sure.

[226] Well, that's the non -silver line of that.

[227] It's kind of amazing when a joke appears about something really topical, how does that happen?

[228] News event happens and the next day you hear a joke.

[229] Where is that born?

[230] I mean, normally at a bar.

[231] People are drinking, but what's the genesis of someone putting together?

[232] It's funny because there's no tracing that.

[233] You're right.

[234] Mama Mia Papa Peter.

[235] This is a mystery that will be as alive.

[236] Rainy theory.

[237] Well, he invented that theory.

[238] Let's be clear.

[239] But would you agree?

[240] I think that kind of specific thing, a joke like that that's born out of some topical thing.

[241] It's two folks that keep topping each other.

[242] Someone says like, you know, Mamma Mia, Papa Pia, right?

[243] You have to keep upping each other.

[244] You're probably right.

[245] Okay, I'm going to hit you with a joke I came up with completely on my own the other day.

[246] It's the proudest joke I've ever had.

[247] So Forbes just named the richest man in Mexico.

[248] Did you read that?

[249] Who was?

[250] Jeff Pesos?

[251] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[252] The richest man of Mexican, Jeff Payson.

[253] That was a little bit.

[254] I feel really cringy about it.

[255] No, no. Usually it works really well.

[256] I'll edit it to make a similar.

[257] It was his favorite joke he had heard this year.

[258] I sent it to him.

[259] So I'm just going to brag.

[260] I'm going to defend myself.

[261] No, it's not bad.

[262] You know I like it?

[263] It sounds racist, but then you think about it and you're like, no, it's just wordplay.

[264] I remember being in a room once with him, and I said to my wife, is the guy you've made rich, you know, and she turned around and she said, oh, Jeff, you know.

[265] Yeah.

[266] Because she likes to shop on.

[267] Oh, sure.

[268] Oh, who doesn't?

[269] Same.

[270] I don't.

[271] You don't do it.

[272] No, I don't even know how.

[273] As a matter of principle or you've just never stumbled.

[274] I don't need stuff.

[275] I mean, to be fair, people get stuff for me. Yeah.

[276] Sure, sure.

[277] Like she does.

[278] She orders the show on Amazon and it gets to you.

[279] But I don't need stuff so much.

[280] Yeah.

[281] Yeah.

[282] If it sounds like boasting, it's not.

[283] No, no. No, it doesn't.

[284] And actually, you've planted a seed that I will be revisiting towards the end.

[285] There's different things about your life and career I admire.

[286] That one plays a role, I think, and ultimately.

[287] But back to Wisconsin.

[288] Are we going?

[289] Yeah, we're always going.

[290] We've been saying in here, A .B .R. We've been going since cheese sandwiches.

[291] Oh, God.

[292] But we cut, by the way.

[293] I'm good.

[294] I say lived by the sword, died by the sword.

[295] Put the bad shit in.

[296] Leave a soup to nuts the whole experience.

[297] That's what we had Michael Shannon on and he told this story.

[298] And 14 times throughout the story, he was like, you can't put this in.

[299] You cannot put this in.

[300] This is really bad.

[301] And by the end, he was like, you can put it in.

[302] Spoken like a true actor.

[303] Yep, exactly.

[304] Okay, we've never interviewed anyone on a Sunday.

[305] I know.

[306] Thank you for that.

[307] And it feels so fitting that on the day of the Lord, we have someone who played Jesus.

[308] We'll never get to interview someone to play Jesus again, especially on a Sunday.

[309] You don't know that?

[310] Well, we might.

[311] It would be a controversial one.

[312] Oh, Caviesel.

[313] No, Mel Gibson.

[314] Well, he directed it.

[315] Kavisel played him.

[316] Okay.

[317] There we do.

[318] Then, no, we won't.

[319] But he won't show up on a Sunday, I bet.

[320] No. He'll be at rest.

[321] I understand he's quite a lot.

[322] Well, you can learn a lot when someone leads a Q &on rally.

[323] Like, you can't accidentally find yourself leading.

[324] You and I've been invited to stuff.

[325] We show up on.

[326] All of a sudden, we're looking around, we're like, should we be here?

[327] But to the extent that you would be leading a Q &Urally, that can't accidentally happen to someone, can't it?

[328] Maybe.

[329] Maybe.

[330] Maybe.

[331] I've been in places where I show up, and it's not what I thought it was going to be.

[332] I mean, personally, not professionally.

[333] Which is a great segue into actually one of my little L .A. stories.

[334] Fuck, I'm not going to tell the story.

[335] Yes, you are.

[336] I kick off by telling stories.

[337] I'm like Michael Shannon.

[338] No, I love it.

[339] So I'm on this movie, Streets of Fire, and I've never made a studio movie.

[340] And they've been shooting for a while, which is always awkward.

[341] And then I come in, and I'm sort of an important character, but it's not centered on me. And I get there, and I meet the people that set is going, and I'm going to shoot in a couple of days.

[342] I meet the stunt guy, and all of a sudden I see him go over to the director, Walter Hill, and he's furious, and he's pointing at me. and it turns out he's really upset that I'm so small because I'm supposed to be this heavy guy that everybody's afraid of, the leader of this huge motorcycle group and the hero is like a foot taller than me and I have a fight with him and he said, I can't do my work, you know, this guy, you know.

[343] And Walter said, calm down, calm down.

[344] And he came over and he said, listen, we're going to be fine, you'll be great.

[345] I was aware of the height difference.

[346] But just has a favor to me. Could you go to a gym and just to satisfy Benny so I can tell him that you're doing something about this problem?

[347] You know, you're getting bigger.

[348] Right.

[349] And I didn't know anybody in L .A. And I was in a panic.

[350] I went to the first place I saw.

[351] And I knew nothing about L .A. And I thought, I got to start right away.

[352] And I didn't have money in those days.

[353] I went in.

[354] You had to put down a credit card or whatever right away.

[355] I signed up.

[356] I got in there and I started working out and I thought, it was a sports connection on Santa Monica in the day, which was a big cruisy place.

[357] Oh, wow.

[358] Wow.

[359] Yes, like a West Hollywood.

[360] Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[361] I stayed.

[362] No problem.

[363] But it took a little adjustment in my head.

[364] Yes.

[365] And everybody was very helpful.

[366] I'm sure.

[367] Yes.

[368] I'm sure they were.

[369] I'm delighted to say to you, I have the same story from 16 years ago.

[370] I don't know New York very well.

[371] And we were staying in an apartment.

[372] And similarly, I was playing an underwear model in a movie.

[373] So I had to be in great shape.

[374] I was working out nonstop.

[375] The closest gym, we were in Chelsea, didn't know anything.

[376] Went down there.

[377] And very quickly, I was like, a lot of guys just stopping their workout and checking out what I'm doing.

[378] This isn't interesting.

[379] It actually gave me a ton of empathy for being a hot girl somewhere.

[380] I'm like, oh, my God, this is what it's like.

[381] You can't turn it off.

[382] You can be hot when you want to be and not when you don't want to be.

[383] No, actually, everybody was very cool.

[384] It was me that was freaked out.

[385] That's really funny.

[386] What year was that, 82 -ish?

[387] 82 -ish.

[388] I remember that movie.

[389] Did he drive around in like a 50s convertible car?

[390] The hero did, but I was on a big hog.

[391] There were like 50, 60 of them.

[392] It was quite a spectacle.

[393] And then somehow that song, on the dark side, that's related somehow.

[394] The big song of that was, I can dream about you.

[395] Oh, I can dream about you.

[396] If I can hold you tonight.

[397] You got it.

[398] Yeah, yeah.

[399] That's a home on notes, man. Maybe.

[400] No, it's...

[401] Dan Hartman?

[402] Dan Hartman.

[403] Isn't it great to have an external hard drive?

[404] Hey, fantastic.

[405] Okay, can we talk about Wisconsin a little bit?

[406] Let's...

[407] 1995.

[408] Dad's a surgeon, mom's a nurse that actually works with dad.

[409] Yeah.

[410] That feels very impossible in hometowny and neat.

[411] And also eight kids.

[412] They were kind of amazing that they kept it together.

[413] And our house was kind of together, but kind of chaos.

[414] basically my sisters raised me five sisters two brothers what order are you i'm seventh so i'm the addition you know i'm the oops yeah and what's the age you get between you and the oldest sister it's uh what they call it irish twins it's pretty much boom boom boom boom boom even the oldest sister is only six years every two years i don't know she's probably two four figure it out help me we'll do fast math 10 years 10 years 12 okay 12 14 is you're 7 14 years.

[415] Okay.

[416] In my experience in life, guys who had many older sisters really, really did well in the world.

[417] I've seen this to be true.

[418] In a lot of ways.

[419] They know how to talk to females.

[420] They've been dominated by them because they're older.

[421] And so they have a respect for them that your average oldest boy doesn't have.

[422] I think it's a good way to go is what I'm saying.

[423] For me, it was great because I became the fly on the wall.

[424] I got a lot of inside information.

[425] Okay.

[426] Yeah.

[427] And they gave me a big education.

[428] And also, I think in those days that women had less opportunities, they shouldn't envy men because men had this pressure to enter the boys group.

[429] The Boys Club stunts people because they have to conform to certain standards.

[430] It stunts them personally, and they don't know themselves.

[431] So you have these little boy men out in the world where women sometimes, I'm not saying it's a good thing, and I don't say we want to go back to a, period where they had less opportunities, but I really think they developed personally.

[432] They knew themselves much better than boys did of the same age.

[433] So that was even my experience in my family.

[434] My sisters were very together and I don't want to say my brothers weren't.

[435] Knowing only about one of your brother, that seems obvious that he had the list of things you should do to be a man. He followed in my father's footsteps.

[436] And the other one just beat me up for his amusement.

[437] He had fast hands, man. Was there a rule in the house, no punching in the face?

[438] There were no rules in my house, but I was fast.

[439] I mean, fast in my legs.

[440] I was just.

[441] I was a lover, not a fighter.

[442] I always have been.

[443] I got to state some global thoughts I have about you because you'll understand where each of these things were landing.

[444] You're so interesting.

[445] It's insane.

[446] In fact, I can't even believe I'm meeting you because I didn't do the kind of movies that you did.

[447] And there's no way I was going to meet you in that way.

[448] It's never too late.

[449] It's never too late.

[450] You're right.

[451] I'll come over to your side.

[452] I'm out of retirement.

[453] I'm an idiocacy fan here.

[454] Oh, that's always wonderful to hear.

[455] You're an enigma wrapped in a whatever the...

[456] I'm a pig in a blanket.

[457] Oh, you're a very eclectic, interesting, intriguing unicorn.

[458] And it's hard for me to picture you in Wisconsin.

[459] And I have to assume you were probably hungry to get out of there.

[460] I was.

[461] And not for any negative thing.

[462] I mean, I think I grew up in a good way.

[463] But I always sensed there was another world out there.

[464] and I always wanted to get out there.

[465] And it wasn't a specific ambition.

[466] I was always interested in performing.

[467] I was always interest in making things, but it didn't make any sense that that's something I could do for a living.

[468] And I don't mean that in a coy way.

[469] It just wasn't practical.

[470] You certainly never bumped into anybody in Wisconsin who was a professional actor.

[471] Nah, there were.

[472] I remembered I was thinking about the musical hair the other day, which somehow sometimes stays with me. Yes.

[473] I remember seeing that in Chicago, and it's the first time I saw naked people on stage, and I thought, that's cool.

[474] People do that?

[475] I want to do that.

[476] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[477] But actually, one of the original cast was from my town.

[478] Oh, really?

[479] And then also, interestingly, you have two other famous people from your town.

[480] Ah, too, very specific.

[481] The pride of your town.

[482] The pride of my town is...

[483] No, he's...

[484] Who'd you say?

[485] Joseph McCarthy was from my town.

[486] Wow.

[487] Isn't that wild?

[488] That's crazy.

[489] And Harry Houdini grew up there.

[490] He wasn't born there because I think he was from Budapest.

[491] Yeah.

[492] But he grew up there.

[493] His father was the canter at the synagogue.

[494] And then died in Detroit.

[495] Yeah.

[496] I had a show.

[497] Got punched in the stomach in Toronto.

[498] Oh, God.

[499] It's wild, right?

[500] Yeah, I think about Harry Houdini more than I should probably.

[501] I do as well.

[502] And I have to say, if I had to say there was a Harry Houdini of acting, I would actually, if I had to just pick, I'm not saying it's a perfect parallel, but here's your group of actors.

[503] There's one of them you have to say is Harry Houdini.

[504] It's kind of you.

[505] I like that.

[506] Yeah, right?

[507] You have that.

[508] Like, when he goes home, do bats come out of the rafter?

[509] Does he greet him?

[510] Like, what's happening?

[511] Houdini almost feels a little too commercial.

[512] Oh, interesting.

[513] Well, don't forget Spider -Man.

[514] He made his way.

[515] What do you latch on to about Houdini that is interesting?

[516] He's a guy that devoted himself to kind of a strange profession.

[517] Yeah.

[518] Studied all this stuff.

[519] and then found a way to make it performable.

[520] And a certain kind of mastery of his breathing, his body, those fall in line with the ambitions of training, your instrument, as they say.

[521] Just a guy that sees something and goes towards it and works very hard on it.

[522] And then, of course, the fact that he dies tragically is juicy.

[523] It is.

[524] But there is, I think, a perversion and an occultness to his pursuit in part of it.

[525] What makes it so exciting is that he committed to it and the world caught up with it.

[526] That's it.

[527] I guess that's what I wanted to express about him being commercial success.

[528] That was also a time.

[529] Well, I don't know his years enough.

[530] Wabiwaw!

[531] Let's get some data coming our way.

[532] But, you know, an interesting period was when there was an explosion of all these healers and these people that were into seances.

[533] Mediums.

[534] Yeah.

[535] That was a very big.

[536] tradition for a while in the United States.

[537] If I can add to that, Lincoln had seances in the White House.

[538] It was so common.

[539] Do you have a date for us?

[540] For Houdini?

[541] Yeah.

[542] 1891 to 1926 was when it was active.

[543] That's much later, actually, because I think it was post -Civil War where there was this boom of all this spiritual crossing over to the other side and the beginning of all this research.

[544] Yes.

[545] I have a little story about Houdini that I thought was kind of cool.

[546] A friend of mine who I basically grew up, he was a great Greek American guy and his father had classically a restaurant.

[547] Yeah, yeah, wonderful.

[548] Cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheeseburger.

[549] And I used to hang out there.

[550] In fact, I lived at his house.

[551] My family was so big that sometimes they didn't even know I was gone.

[552] I just had my own room at his house.

[553] And they had a fire at their restaurant and they found a new place.

[554] And someone said, you know, this is where Harry Houdini lived.

[555] As they were remodeling the place, and one evening we went there with a Ouija board.

[556] Oh, wonderful.

[557] And we said, Harry Houdini, if you are here, give us a sign.

[558] So the plan chat would go, E .W. No, try again.

[559] E .W. Try again.

[560] E .W. Okay, this thing doesn't work or he's not here.

[561] Eric Weiss was his real name.

[562] No, no, no, no. Yes, ladies and gentlemen.

[563] That is so, so scary.

[564] I love it, though.

[565] I'm so scared right now.

[566] Oh, I love that.

[567] I remember it so well.

[568] But here's where I'm getting it.

[569] I wonder if you had that fire that you felt.

[570] I feel like a peculiar insect here.

[571] If I go somewhere else, maybe it'll make more sense.

[572] I did.

[573] And also, my father was from Wisconsin, and he grew up in a country school where he skipped like four grades.

[574] But he had a good education.

[575] It was kind of depression time.

[576] He went to Harvard Medical School before he could shave practically.

[577] Went to Mayo Clinic.

[578] Wow.

[579] So he had an ambitious.

[580] background.

[581] And my mother came from a blue -collar family.

[582] Her father was a union organizer and a milkman.

[583] And she grew up in Dorchester.

[584] And she went to girls Latin school in Boston and then became a nurse.

[585] So they were upwardly mobile.

[586] They instilled in us, you've got to go out in the world.

[587] You inherited ambition.

[588] Yeah.

[589] My town was lots of things.

[590] There were universities there.

[591] There was some wealth there.

[592] There was all kinds of things.

[593] But principally, a lot of Paper mills.

[594] So there was a big blue -collar factory worker community, and they were basically Italian and Polish surnames or Eastern European.

[595] The owners of the factories all had English or German names.

[596] So there was kind of a Protestant Catholic split.

[597] And there was a large Jewish community as well.

[598] And I grew up with a crazy prejudice against the working class.

[599] Oh, interesting.

[600] which took a lot to overcome when I decided to become an actor and went to New York and was living like a pauper and living in bad neighborhood.

[601] And I thought, no, this is where it's the salt of the earth.

[602] And not because my parents were horrible people.

[603] It was just this very American fear of sliding back into another economic bracket.

[604] They had pulled themselves up from their bootstraps and that was a point of pride and they wanted their children to even do better.

[605] Now, that didn't quite jive with this guy that likes to perform and wants to see the world, wants to have adventures.

[606] Wants to be in the carnival, basically.

[607] Yeah.

[608] That was always a fantasy when I was a kid, either the carnival or merchant marine or army.

[609] It sounds juvenile, and it was because I was a kid.

[610] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[611] But that was it.

[612] I really had this strong feeling of I wanted to go away to see what he could see.

[613] The other side of the mound down the side, yeah.

[614] But of course, the working class, it's all story.

[615] So your parents have sacrificed so much.

[616] You said you're raised by your sisters.

[617] They're never home.

[618] So they're killing themselves.

[619] It's a story.

[620] So the other option has to be the villain, which is the working class.

[621] There's no room for anything else.

[622] Well, I really adored my parents.

[623] They were great.

[624] But I saw that they lived their life a little bit in fear.

[625] And that's been a huge.

[626] ambition to get away from that.

[627] Yes, defining yourself in opposition to that in a way.

[628] A little bit.

[629] Now, my parents were cool.

[630] They were hippie -ish in a wheeler, dealer, car salesman, an attic.

[631] So mine weren't square.

[632] Mine were kind of square.

[633] They were more Eisenhower Republicans.

[634] There was an interesting point where all my brothers and sisters went to the University of Wisconsin -Madison, which during the 60s was right up there with Berkeley and a few other places for being a place of political activity.

[635] And as a teenager, I lived through these thanksgivings where, you know, brother would come down with long hair and would talk about power of the people and all that.

[636] My parents would freak out.

[637] Yes, yes.

[638] Were they like, how did all our children and then this little one is going to the carnival?

[639] Like, what have we done?

[640] Yeah, I hadn't gone to the carnival yet.

[641] They could feel it.

[642] It was happening.

[643] Well, look, they did it right.

[644] and now this movement arises that seems to threaten the whole order.

[645] It's all going to go away, this thing we dedicate ourselves to.

[646] People always go to their parents when they analyze why they're fucked up.

[647] I think it's all about identity and social conditioning.

[648] That's the struggle to get clear of that.

[649] And I think somewhere my ambition to go elsewhere was to, and I've always had this.

[650] It's also why I like to work in other cultures and I would like to mix it up with projects.

[651] you like to find out what the bottom line is that's free of a certain kind of thing that you assume is the truth, but it's cultural.

[652] Yes.

[653] It's all made up.

[654] It's made up and it can limit you like crazy because that's the source of all your fear and your anxiety because it's not about you and you think it's about you, but it's not.

[655] You've got to find your own way.

[656] Yeah.

[657] And look, I'm in therapy.

[658] So I do talk about my childhood.

[659] But also, I've never been in therapy.

[660] I want to also agree with you.

[661] I think there is a greater force, which is the ultimate parents, which is like, who are we as a species?

[662] How are we designed to live?

[663] What is the price one pays for being excommunicated?

[664] Well, it's life or death.

[665] We know it genetically and evolutionarily.

[666] So yes, to go somewhere else, it has a whole different set of rules.

[667] And you recognize, oh, I could live out loud this part of me that would have got me excluded over there.

[668] and I won't be excluded here.

[669] That's a really powerful and dynamic thing to observe an experience.

[670] I also think, coupled with that, once I started to work, I always sought out these situations that were collaborative groups of people that were working together and make something.

[671] That's a different kind of freedom.

[672] I've interrupted you a bunch and I want to apologize, and I just want you know my intention.

[673] You're very excitable.

[674] I mean, well, I just want to be very clear.

[675] It's not because I'm trying to finish your sentence as much as I'm trying to bond with you.

[676] So I just caught myself on a ninth interruption.

[677] I just want to own it.

[678] That's a good job.

[679] I'm proud of you for catching that.

[680] I talk too slow.

[681] No, no, no, no, no. You don't.

[682] I just, I got very excited to mind meld with you.

[683] We go to New York, though, ultimately.

[684] Yeah.

[685] And you're young.

[686] It's in the 70s.

[687] And New York is like, I don't think people who go there now understand.

[688] Oh, it was dropped dead in New York.

[689] And it was dangerous.

[690] There weren't enough cops and there were plenty of bad guys.

[691] And it was rough and stuff didn't work, but it was also exciting because you're young and you could deal with it.

[692] You don't give a shit then, right?

[693] You've not been comfortable yet.

[694] In fact, given everything that we said before, I was kind of thought, well, this is the world.

[695] I've been living in Disneyland.

[696] Yes.

[697] You start to meet artists and you start to meet poets and you start to meet people that have much different concerns that you had.

[698] because they don't have money and they didn't grow up with the same kind of pressures that you had.

[699] I mean, I grew up very middle class and very modestly, don't get me wrong.

[700] But you fall a couple of economic classes and you see, once again, the charm of that life too.

[701] I think there's more unity in it.

[702] So just my own story, started out dead broke, mom left dad, two kids, welfare apartments, the whole nine yards.

[703] But my mom did build a successful kind of business at some point in my life.

[704] But all my friends were on dirt road.

[705] I always wanted to be there.

[706] because there were less rules, and there wasn't so much competition because no one had shit.

[707] There was something awesome about the fact that there couldn't be any one -upmanship.

[708] No one had anything.

[709] And for me, I loved it.

[710] I never laughed.

[711] I didn't ever want to leave.

[712] Talk about not needing anything.

[713] But I got infected at some point.

[714] That's, again, the earmark thing I want to know about.

[715] At the end is how you seem to have.

[716] Let's put it this way.

[717] You could have probably amassed a couple hundred million dollars with the notoriety you have and the offers, I'm sure, are out there for you.

[718] you could have at many times pursued different paths and you seem to have not ever picked it.

[719] And that to me is someone with financial insecurity and greediness.

[720] That is incredible to me. Well, I don't know.

[721] They pay you for a reason.

[722] So I'm not always about money.

[723] It is possible to make money and still do good things.

[724] Don't get me wrong.

[725] But that's not the first question.

[726] It conditions things because money is a symbol of taking care.

[727] you know, if you're making a deal on a movie and they're really not honoring what you need, then it's not a good sign for that collaboration that you're going to have artistically.

[728] Right.

[729] You say that and that sounds good and that sounds very brave of me and not being a money pig and all that.

[730] Because I don't think I am, but it happened by accident.

[731] I think because the people that I've always been hanging out weren't necessarily wealthy people, but they were working artists and they were doing things that interested.

[732] me. So the work will sustain you.

[733] Money will not.

[734] It becomes something else.

[735] And where I find my pleasure is in movement, in doing stuff.

[736] And I think money and certain things can slow you down.

[737] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[738] Okay, we don't like parent stuff.

[739] But as you're talking about it, I'm thinking, well, one difference between you and I is I was growing up with nothing and the goal was to amass something.

[740] And you grew up with something and you were like, yeah, this ain't that great.

[741] So you kind of already maybe started at the finish line.

[742] Maybe that was helpful.

[743] I think that's fair.

[744] Also, I used to always get annoyed when there would be an interviewer talking like this and we'd go back to when I was 10 years old to talk about my family because so much has happened since that.

[745] It's like, get over it.

[746] And I guess I'm a little more tolerant of that now.

[747] But still, I think the formative years didn't necessarily involve my family or those early years.

[748] The formative years was when I was in New York with the Worcester Group, this theater company.

[749] That was probably the thing that had the strongest mark on me. Did you have idols at that time and did you have fantasies of what you were trying to do?

[750] I'm sure I did, but I remember when I first started hearing about Yerji Gertowski, who was this Polish theater lab, do you know that?

[751] No. He was a guy that took basically a student group.

[752] and he was quite radical and he limited the amount of audience that they could have.

[753] He developed these exercises.

[754] Basically, it was to bring the actors to a place where they'd have to surrender because they was so physical and he'd employ the language of these exercises in the show.

[755] It was based a lot on ritual.

[756] He told many stories with kind of classical or religious themes.

[757] I was very turned on to that because he wrote a book called Towards the Poor Theater.

[758] That was like a fantasy, having a purity to what you do.

[759] He was interesting because he just worked with the student group and they totally committed to him and they became great performers.

[760] I never saw them live.

[761] I met some of them.

[762] I worked with one for a little while, but I saw videos of some of their performances and they were electric.

[763] And you wanted that experience more than you wanted to be one of those people?

[764] I even wanted to be one of those people.

[765] But it was very far from me because they were Polish and the different tradition.

[766] But in working with this company in New York, we toured a lot.

[767] And I saw a lot of different theater companies and a lot of different theater traditions.

[768] And that turned me on.

[769] And sometimes I'd see performances and the performers were so electric that I would have an ambition to be like them.

[770] Would you experience envy?

[771] Of course.

[772] And I'd say how beautiful that is.

[773] They give me so much.

[774] I wish I could do that for somebody.

[775] Right.

[776] That's not an obsession.

[777] But when you say, oh, did you have an, I was ready to say, nah, you know, I was just chugging along trying to figure it out, which is sort of true.

[778] But then when I think about it, the people that really turned me on were usually artists or these really extreme performers that were electric but had no celebrity necessarily and had a very modest lifestyle.

[779] So that was sexy to me. That's the group you were trying to be in, which makes sense that the money doesn't become the thing to get.

[780] It's that.

[781] It's artistic integrity and the approval of artists.

[782] Yeah, or just learning to do what you do so well that you didn't need anything else.

[783] The work would sustain you.

[784] I still on some level believe that.

[785] And that's not just for actors.

[786] You look at some person that has a, little cobbler shop and they do fantastic work.

[787] Oh, I think these genius welders in the automotive world, they think of a thing and they turn it into steel and they're in there for three days.

[788] Wow.

[789] That's it.

[790] It has to do with the quality of being there.

[791] And as long as you can sustain that, still that is my ambition.

[792] From what I'm gleaning from you, it seems to me you're not terribly preoccupied with the grand story you're telling of your life.

[793] Is that fair?

[794] I think so, because I'm happiest when I melt into the action.

[795] in the same way than I'm happiest when I feel like I'm functioning in a group of people making something bigger than me. It's very important to get away from yourself.

[796] And that doesn't mean it's not personal.

[797] In fact, it becomes more personal.

[798] And it maybe sounds precious.

[799] As an actor, you're part entertainer, you're part clown, you're part artist, you're lots of things.

[800] But the irony is it's about disappearing and finding another way of being and leaving yourself behind because the second we're born, we're always constructing these things that take us away from ourselves.

[801] These identity markers, and we become slave to it.

[802] That's hard to be.

[803] You need some to just make breakfast and have relationships and know how to talk to people and function socially.

[804] But you've got to develop an awareness to see where you're leaning for certain behavior, for approval, for acceptance, for reaching that goal that you haven't examined, but you've accepted as a goal that you have to reach, all those things.

[805] I think that's what makes us sick, these things of identity, these things that work on you to fool you into thinking something that you're not.

[806] There are ways to survive in the world.

[807] We're all trying to find strategies to survive in the world in the most pleasant, best way that we can.

[808] And I guess one thing that's great about performing, not that you use it as therapy, but sometimes it can open your eyes to other ways of being and it can break that kind of stronghold that you have on what you think is normal and what you think is you.

[809] That fits nicely, I mean, we don't have to dwell on it and I'm not being cute here, but that's one of the nice things and poor things.

[810] It's about a lot of things.

[811] It's a complex, interesting, funny movie, but it's a lot about identity and social conditioning and sexuality too, but it's very much about identity and sing beyond what is normal.

[812] Yeah.

[813] Are you into mushrooms at all?

[814] No. Okay.

[815] If you take Michael Pollan and you read the book and it's explained to you biochemically what happens that makes them magic is simply it interrupts a channel in your brain that communicates with the area you store your identity, this construction, right?

[816] So a lot of end -of -life doctors recommend taking it as you're nearing the end of your life.

[817] because it liberates you and frees you from this construct of your identity and it actually lets you experience the stuff that is primal as you say everything we would use to construct our identity we're going to be using all modern things that have only existed for 80 years right I'm an accountant I'm a this I'm a libertarian these things are like 90 year old mental constructs yes they can't possibly be what identity is that we've been here for 300 ,000 years and so mushrooms kind of does that for you.

[818] And to me it sounds like your work as an actor is in a way like taking mushrooms and that you do separate yourself to some degree from your own construction and you take on someone else's and then it must be a euphoric and liberating, transforming thing.

[819] In theory.

[820] And it can be.

[821] And the only reason I'm quick to say, no, about the mushrooms.

[822] I've got a kind of discipline where it's got to come from within because I get up in the morning.

[823] How does yoga play into all this?

[824] That's part of it.

[825] So what else is on that agenda?

[826] Pretty much that.

[827] Yoga.

[828] Do you meditate?

[829] Yes.

[830] But you don't want to talk about it.

[831] Exactly.

[832] You know, it's like talking about religion, you know?

[833] Yeah, yeah.

[834] I mean, it's not, but I don't like it only because it's like, I have something that you don't have.

[835] You know, I am.

[836] I don't know.

[837] It's like.

[838] Self -actualized.

[839] Yeah, you know, I mean, everybody's trying.

[840] And I'm one of those guys that's trying, but I don't want to talk about it.

[841] Yeah, that's fair.

[842] Hopefully, with time of.

[843] get articulate in what I do, that that can be an expression of those things.

[844] I'm not going to ask you to talk about it, but I'm curious if the motivation not to, is that it would feel disrespectful to what it's giving you to go talk about it.

[845] No, it's just, listen, if my world, if my world is different, nobody's, you know, yeah, yeah.

[846] Yeah, that's good.

[847] Yeah, yeah, yeah, nobody's around, nobody's around.

[848] And without any confession, for example, in America, we're obsessed with drugs.

[849] We're obsessed with going out to things outside of ourselves to make us feel better.

[850] It's really less true, other places.

[851] Yes, there are plenty of drug problems, other places.

[852] But we, the solution is always to reach for something.

[853] And I don't want to be Pollyanna.

[854] I have, and I do to varying degrees.

[855] But you keep an eye on it.

[856] Yeah.

[857] Well, I'm sober, so I can kind of roll out.

[858] I know.

[859] That's part of the research, baby.

[860] I'm sure that pops up almost smooth.

[861] Big time.

[862] I probably goes Kristen Bell, sober.

[863] And don't get me wrong.

[864] I mean, you know.

[865] You've had some fun.

[866] Yeah.

[867] And I've always been interested in people like Timothy Leary and Hunter S. Thompson.

[868] Adventurers?

[869] Yeah.

[870] When you've played a character where that's an element of their existence and experience, do you allow yourself to live as they do a little bit?

[871] No. For example, I did this film that Patricia Arquette directed called Gonzo Girl.

[872] and I play a hunteress Thompson -esque figure and I felt no desire to get coked up and drink all the time and that quite publicly was his story I couldn't perform if I was doing that.

[873] Now that one makes sense to me but I guess for a platoon I can imagine.

[874] The joke is you know there was one scene where we're smoking weed and we're down in this underground area where we're living and they're setting up.

[875] It's a lot of young actors, you know, that want to be real, you know?

[876] So they're like, come on, man, we're smoking weed, so let's smoke some weed, you know.

[877] And you're the Captain Weed Smoker of this group.

[878] Yeah, we're all smoking.

[879] It's not authorized.

[880] It's not unauthorized.

[881] You know, it's just something that happens.

[882] We're in the middle of the jungle.

[883] Yes.

[884] Some guys don't.

[885] Some guys do.

[886] And they had problems technically.

[887] So everybody got high.

[888] We're ready to party.

[889] And then by the time, it was time to do the scene.

[890] When you're in the sweet spot.

[891] They were on the other side.

[892] Then they had to act being high after they had been high.

[893] Probably not a good way to approach these things.

[894] I've watched it on set.

[895] I've been intrigued by it.

[896] But I also go like, you're being very optimistic about how quick you're going to get a scene done.

[897] You're ignoring the fact that you would have to stay in that peak zone for maybe nine hours.

[898] Yeah.

[899] And how many times have you been in a scene where someone is supposed to be drunk?

[900] And they say, let me go.

[901] and they're terrible.

[902] Right.

[903] Because they're fucking tired by the time.

[904] They're tired and they can't, yeah, they're drunk.

[905] I'm not opposed to it.

[906] Yeah.

[907] It's worked for a lot of people.

[908] Yeah.

[909] And it's fine.

[910] I don't care.

[911] It depends on the situation.

[912] But I just say generally, you have some technical responsibilities sometimes.

[913] That'll go by the wayside.

[914] If it's not in the frame, it doesn't exist.

[915] You know, I mean, good for you.

[916] You're feeling it.

[917] But feeling is a little overrated.

[918] you gotta be there.

[919] Yeah, yeah.

[920] You've expressed at least that you're the type of person that loves just being the instrument to the director.

[921] You enter it literally going, I'm a piece of how they're going to make this painting.

[922] You've said, I'm the paint.

[923] I'm the color.

[924] Yeah, canvas.

[925] Which I'd like, but have you found yourself?

[926] We only happen to know about this because we interviewed a guy who does a show.

[927] They take movies and they do a whole episode on it.

[928] And we listen to the platoon one, which is really fascinating.

[929] Paul Shear, this comedian.

[930] It's a great episode.

[931] Breaks down the movie.

[932] He's a comedian, but he's a comedian, He's like a film guy.

[933] Loves film.

[934] And he's brilliant.

[935] He's like a historian.

[936] And they're going through the AFI list.

[937] And then they watch it and then they go to an episode about it.

[938] And then they might do some interviews and such.

[939] So they interviewed some people from the platoon movie.

[940] They didn't interview me. Unfortunately and sadly.

[941] That's because rumor is you don't do podcasts very often.

[942] At least from what we listen to, there seemed to be a lot of psychodynamics being played with in the environment.

[943] Cool things being.

[944] used, and I guess I'm wondering, knowing what I know about you, when you're there, can you just drop into that and go with it?

[945] Or is there a voice in your head going like, I feel like I'm getting manipulated, or you like going all the way?

[946] And have you ever felt like this has gotten too crazy?

[947] No, I think you've got to go with it.

[948] That's what you signed up for.

[949] And there's nothing worse than someone that drags their feet, because it's usually selfish.

[950] You've got to throw your latin in.

[951] But of course, if someone misbehaves or someone is abusive and it's too much for you, then you speak up.

[952] I've been in that situation.

[953] The joke is oftentimes when directors are rough or abusive, the actors like it because they get a result.

[954] They forget all the bad part of the manipulation and they're happy because typically when they have to be stressed or they get breakdown or something.

[955] Sometimes I've seen really crazy abuse towards people to get.

[956] get them to that place.

[957] And I don't know how I feel about that because it's up to the individual.

[958] And the individual sometimes is thankful because that was a thing to get them there.

[959] And they'll survive it.

[960] And in the end, they'll look back and they'll say, oh, well, I let something go.

[961] Everybody's different.

[962] There's no rules.

[963] But I think the problem is when you start dragging your feet, then that stops the adventure a little bit.

[964] Because what are you protecting?

[965] Well, right.

[966] You're protecting your place.

[967] You're not united anymore.

[968] You're separating yourself out.

[969] But you've got to be careful.

[970] If there's abusive stuff going on, then you've got to speak up.

[971] You landed and ended up being the very last flight into the Philippines.

[972] And the revolution started the next morning.

[973] Crazy.

[974] Talk about out searching for adventure.

[975] Oh, God.

[976] And there weren't that many people there because I went early because I wanted to hang out and have a little adventure before the adventure.

[977] Because I was flying from New York.

[978] It was a long flight, and I took a nap after, and I opened my curtains.

[979] I was in a high -rise hotel, and I looked out and there were tanks on the street.

[980] Oh, my God.

[981] And then I turned on the TV and saw that the rebels had one station and the government had another.

[982] And it was a revolution happening.

[983] Now, thankfully, it was fairly bloodless.

[984] But in the beginning, I could hear gunfire or this kind of thing.

[985] And then I got a call, sit tight, the movie's canceled, we'll get you out when we can.

[986] And I thought, okay.

[987] So then I found a couple people, like the producer was there, Alex Ho, and Bob Richardson was there.

[988] Because they had expelled a lot of Westerners right before that, we went out on the street and a million people went to create a blockade around this army base because those people were not going to put down the revolution.

[989] And Marcos took his loyalists and they were going to march on these guys.

[990] and a million people went to surround them.

[991] So it's basically like, bring it on.

[992] You've got to kill us to get to them.

[993] And I was in that crowd.

[994] Oh, my God.

[995] And I was one of the few gringoes because they had expelled everybody.

[996] So it was a very high feeling.

[997] And people were feeling the pride and the power of people getting together for a cause.

[998] And it was spectacular.

[999] And Bob Richardson was filming a little bit.

[1000] Oliver, I don't think, was there.

[1001] And when Oliver saw the footage, He said, gee, I hope you're better in the film than you were in those videos.

[1002] He said, you were kind of self -conscious.

[1003] Well, that's a fun question, isn't it?

[1004] Do you find that, like, if someone starts filming me with an iPhone, I'm insanely self -conscious.

[1005] And I think that's so bizarre that I'm an actor.

[1006] You don't have things to do.

[1007] You don't have anything to concentrate on.

[1008] So they're filming you as Dax without that filter or without that.

[1009] purpose.

[1010] Or an agenda or the game plan.

[1011] And you attach to that.

[1012] I'm speaking for you.

[1013] You know what I mean?

[1014] The same thing happens with me. You hear all the time, oh, actors are shy people sometimes.

[1015] It's a little true because you're always fooling with your identity unless your businesses, and some people have done it beautifully, their businesses to create a persona.

[1016] And they use that iconographically.

[1017] Movie stars is a perfect example.

[1018] Someone that's a stone cold movie star.

[1019] That's it, and they go through these stories, and they're very beautiful because you can use them and you can build the stories around them.

[1020] Then there's the other people that bend themselves to the story.

[1021] Yeah.

[1022] Yeah, and there's no hierarchy.

[1023] It's fun to watch both.

[1024] There are people that are in one group that I adore, and there's people that are in another that I adore.

[1025] Yes, yes.

[1026] This isn't a question.

[1027] This is just an observation.

[1028] So you were in Catherine Bigelow's first movie.

[1029] I was.

[1030] Her first feature, she had made shorts and things before that.

[1031] You're like, give you a heart attack gorgeous.

[1032] I was watching it, and I was like...

[1033] I looked like a little kid.

[1034] Oh, no. I mean, you are kind of earth -shatteringly gorgeous in this.

[1035] I just was watching this clip.

[1036] I was like, holy fuck.

[1037] I mean, you were a smoke show.

[1038] Oh, my God.

[1039] I didn't know.

[1040] You turned into the most interesting face of all time, but back then you're just straight up walking to a bar.

[1041] People are going to say hi to you.

[1042] Yeah.

[1043] I don't remember it that way.

[1044] I really don't.

[1045] I really don't.

[1046] Wait, I want to look up a face.

[1047] You have to, the loveless.

[1048] There's a scene of them driving in a car.

[1049] It's like the same thing in, to live in Dian, L .A. In those days, I would go out more, and I'd go to a club and this massive, muscular, tall, bouncer.

[1050] That was your idea of scary.

[1051] He'd be like, oh, Rick Masters, wow, wow.

[1052] And I think, he bought it.

[1053] I see myself, and I look like a little kid.

[1054] Yeah, this is crazy.

[1055] How fucking gorgeous is it?

[1056] It's like, it's kind of, you're right, and it's so young, little boy.

[1057] Knowing that you see yourself as a lover, you weren't a fighter, when you have those showdowns with Beringer in Platoon, are those easy for you?

[1058] Like, do you have to steal yourself?

[1059] No. When you do strong actions, everything takes over.

[1060] I mean, when you fight, I get emotional when I fight.

[1061] That's probably why I'm not a fighter.

[1062] I mean, I did a boxing movie.

[1063] I didn't need to, for the movie, because you choreographed things.

[1064] but in training, I always had a hard time keeping calm and seeing the punches I could defend, but I couldn't attack.

[1065] And not because I was against attacking, don't get me wrong.

[1066] Once you engage me on that level, you become totally fluid emotionally because you lose your intellect, you're pure emotion.

[1067] You get into the reptilian thing.

[1068] So when I'm fighting...

[1069] That's the easier stuff for you.

[1070] A little bit.

[1071] It is what it is.

[1072] if I know I got to go over and hit you and then you push me back and then I got to push you back, I can't separate myself.

[1073] I know I'm not going to die.

[1074] I know I'm not going to get hurt.

[1075] I know it's even choreographed.

[1076] But just physically that, you know, it's like when someone slaps you.

[1077] You know it's coming, but.

[1078] This is the younger brother thing.

[1079] I'm a younger brother too.

[1080] You spend most of your life waiting for your brother to come and slap you in the head or just get in a headlock for indiscriminate reasons.

[1081] And that's your life.

[1082] Yeah.

[1083] the directors you've worked with are incredible and then you have this pattern of working with them a ton there's so many good ones robert eggers and martin scorsesey paul shrader west anderson abel lars my wife your wife julian schnobble are you very director -driven i want to know what percentage is a script and which percentage is the director because you said something really cool about poor things which is like you don't know what the tone of poor things is when you're made making it.

[1084] You see somebody's work, you like what it is, you want to be in the room with them.

[1085] You're kind of curious.

[1086] How did they do that?

[1087] I respond to that so much.

[1088] So you get in the room with them and you enjoy being with them and they find you useful.

[1089] So they ask you back and you create a shorthand and you can give yourself more easily because you don't have to establish a trust because you're already in.

[1090] You know that they'll protect you.

[1091] Yeah.

[1092] And also, So if you give yourself to someone, you don't know how the movie's going to be, but you know why you're doing it.

[1093] And I like also the idea of being part of the fabric of somebody's work.

[1094] It probably comes from the idea of like in the theater where you go back, like with the Worcester Group, we did some shows because we do old shows next to new shows all the time.

[1095] I did shows where I played three different roles because I was with that company for 27 years.

[1096] So I aged out of one role and went into another role.

[1097] And how cool is that, you know?

[1098] And for someone that follows that work, it expands things a little bit.

[1099] So I kind of like the idea that it's kind of the pleasure of that thing that you get from movie stars where you see them as part of a language through storytelling or a film experience.

[1100] And there's an added pleasure for that.

[1101] So you get that kind of pleasure without being a movie star.

[1102] If you're in multiple movies, there's a whole story in that.

[1103] You might even have a relationship in one role where you're being kind of infanilized.

[1104] And there's another role where maybe you're being feared by the drug.

[1105] Like you could have all these dynamic relationships driven by whatever character you're playing.

[1106] It's true.

[1107] That's kind of fun.

[1108] It's almost like role playing with a lover.

[1109] Yeah.

[1110] And then the audience.

[1111] Without the sex.

[1112] I was going to say.

[1113] But it is funny the way you just.

[1114] said director.

[1115] Yeah, listen, my two major relationships in my life have been with female directors.

[1116] That says a lot about you as well that you won't want to talk about.

[1117] Here's one that I just have.

[1118] You could just be private, which is totally respectable, but they're also, we've talked to many actors that struggle with the notion.

[1119] I would imagine, particularly for an actor like you, that takes huge swings, plays big characters, that you want to have that option at all time.

[1120] And you don't want people to know terribly much about you.

[1121] Do you have any of that?

[1122] Yes, but then, as we're experiencing right now, push me and I'll talk.

[1123] No, I'm social and sometimes you use press or whatever to kind of try to articulate what you're doing.

[1124] And also, it's fun sometimes.

[1125] I got to admit it.

[1126] It's forced reflection.

[1127] It is, exactly.

[1128] It's just in public, which is weird.

[1129] But sometimes I kick myself and say, why don't you just shut up?

[1130] because I think it's better not to know anything about the personal life of an actor because you carry it when you see that person on the screen.

[1131] I just know that personally, if I know something really unsavory or I don't like about a person, it affects how I can watch them.

[1132] If their politics really are repellent to you, it factors in when I watch them.

[1133] You can't help it.

[1134] So in a way, I like to do press.

[1135] I like to support movies.

[1136] particular movies that I adore, but even movies that are flawed, you go to bat for it because you were there.

[1137] Yeah.

[1138] You've been in 150 movies at this point.

[1139] Would you agree?

[1140] I say this all the time.

[1141] Like, I never will say a bad thing about a movie on here, ever in public.

[1142] I think that's good.

[1143] I will say good things about movies, so you can kind of read between the lines.

[1144] My thought is like having every one I've done, we tried our artist.

[1145] I've literally not been on one where I was like, no one here is trying.

[1146] I've been on somewhere I'm like, I don't think this can add up to much, but you're trying.

[1147] I think that's true.

[1148] Also, I always remember, I really don't want to say the name because he's dead, but there was one actor that was very popular, but he made bad movies, movies that I didn't like.

[1149] And then I remember that I saw him in a movie where I thought he was really great.

[1150] And then I heard an interview with him, and he said, oh, there's one movie that I hate.

[1151] It was the one you love.

[1152] And the movie I loved.

[1153] part of me says who cares but another part of me it was disappointing i was happy that i liked him in a movie and i liked the movie yeah and i had theories why that was good and the fact that he was so counter to that disturbed me okay this is great i had this experience my very very favorite drama of all time for whatever reason i couldn't write a paper on why it's good but thief by Michael Mann.

[1154] And again, I won't get in particular, but I'll just say, I had watched that movie upwards of a hundred times.

[1155] And then there was a DVD with the commentary on it, where you got to hear all the actors talk about.

[1156] What was in that?

[1157] And I fucking regret listening to that so much.

[1158] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1159] So I do relate.

[1160] Like, I was like, no, I don't want to know that that's, I thought something else was going on that I was really vibing with.

[1161] And it wasn't that at all.

[1162] That's so funny, though, because I'm the opposite.

[1163] I want, I want to know everything.

[1164] I want to know all the details.

[1165] The commentary is pretty much my favorite part on DVDs so that I could feel more a part of it.

[1166] More on the inside.

[1167] It makes you feel more connected or more on the inside or something.

[1168] So I see both.

[1169] It's true.

[1170] Okay.

[1171] I only want to ask you about two things and when we're going to get into poor things.

[1172] But for me, wild at heart.

[1173] There's two things you're front row to.

[1174] David Lynch and for me, Nick Cage at like peak.

[1175] And again, as a kid, he was my dude.

[1176] What was that experience like?

[1177] You were David Lynch, too, who's like on another planet.

[1178] And then you have this actor who's on another planet, and you're on another planet.

[1179] That was a very good experience, and the thing that is remarkable about it, first of all, yeah, it was exciting to be around David.

[1180] I've worked with Nick another time, too, on a film called Dog Eat Dog, and I feel like even a third time.

[1181] But anyway, I've got lots of different feelings about Nick, but of course, he does swing for the fences, and he does act on impulse, and he's fun to work.

[1182] Can we agree?

[1183] Anyone who's got 100 % commitment, I applaud.

[1184] Even if I don't like the outcome.

[1185] He doesn't wait and he tries to amuse himself also and tries to find a way to engage himself personally.

[1186] And sometimes those impulses, who knows?

[1187] He works a lot.

[1188] How often can you go to the well?

[1189] I work a lot too.

[1190] He was fun.

[1191] But the memorable thing, because really the great scene and Wild at Heart for my character is the scene with Laura Dern, in fact.

[1192] But the cool thing about that, is, I think that was a successful character.

[1193] I mean, a good character, a memorable character, a fun character to do, but I did so little.

[1194] They gave me everything.

[1195] They gave me a beautiful costume.

[1196] No choice, no discussion.

[1197] Lynch said, you're wearing this.

[1198] On a hanger.

[1199] This is yours, Willem, like that.

[1200] My little contribution was probably the idea of having a little mustache, and then I remember vividly, and I talked about this a lot, those teeth that I was wearing, you know, it reads in the script, broken, stumpy, yellow teeth or something.

[1201] And it's a perfect example of how actors can put limitations on themselves.

[1202] I thought, okay, they'll just color them.

[1203] Well, your direct quote I heard you say is, great, I already have them.

[1204] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1205] That's what you said.

[1206] Yeah, my teeth are funky anyway.

[1207] Yeah, yeah.

[1208] And he was like, he was like, we got to get you to a dentist, Willem, to get the teeth.

[1209] And we got these dentures that went over my teeth.

[1210] and they were so big that I couldn't close my mouth.

[1211] So I'm like a mouth breather.

[1212] And if you do this, do this right now.

[1213] I mean, the next thing you want to do is it's a trigger.

[1214] You're always looking for those triggers.

[1215] Not only do you have a beautiful script, a beautiful director framing you, good actors, but for your imagination, it's those little triggers that makes me feel like, yeah, I'm the guy, I got something going, you know?

[1216] Yes, yes.

[1217] As you said, you're hungry now.

[1218] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1219] You want something that you want.

[1220] Yeah.

[1221] It's probably nothing you could plan.

[1222] It's something that happens.

[1223] So you always try to make yourself available for those triggers or you try to find them.

[1224] It's often an external element, but then you internalize it or it triggers something.

[1225] You know, Bobby Peru probably was invented in Appleton, Wisconsin by some of the greasers that I know.

[1226] It was my opportunity to play those guys.

[1227] And what led me to that?

[1228] Something that you can't even access maybe that makes you feel different.

[1229] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[1230] Okay, so I saw this incredible thing, these two social scientists, they had sat down, this is in the 80s, I think, to try to map every single facial expression.

[1231] And they're sitting together for months doing this, and they're going through the list of every, every, emotion and they're trying to themselves make that because they're trying to learn about nonverbal communication and what is all expressed in the face and it's so expressive and what they discovered in that process that we of course think of emotions creating the look on our face which is true but when they were forced to make a sad look well lo and behold the emotion then you would become sad yes of course then they scientifically produce is so cool it's like yes these teeth for you they backfilled all these emotions.

[1232] No, strike the pose and something will happen.

[1233] See what happened.

[1234] Make the movement and you'll have an association.

[1235] And the trick is really to show up and be available to that.

[1236] I'm very turned on by that.

[1237] I mean, it's a very simple thing.

[1238] But everybody thinks it's about producing things.

[1239] It's about ideas.

[1240] It's about choices.

[1241] It's about directing something.

[1242] About expressing, interpreting something.

[1243] Okay.

[1244] There is that.

[1245] But the heart of performing, I think, is being open to these things that happen.

[1246] Right.

[1247] And they're handed to you by what's in the room, by the people that you're looking at.

[1248] It's about receiving and dealing with what's there because that roots it.

[1249] All the planning and all the showing and all the ideas, then it becomes didactic.

[1250] It becomes flat.

[1251] It doesn't have life anymore.

[1252] Well, you're just executing a plan.

[1253] Yeah.

[1254] Some people do that brilliantly.

[1255] and it's fun to watch, but it's a little closed.

[1256] I mean, I think that's for life, too.

[1257] It is.

[1258] Right?

[1259] Instead of just always, what am I doing?

[1260] It's what can I take in?

[1261] What can I observe about the world that then affects you as opposed to, like, how do I impact the world?

[1262] How does the world impact me?

[1263] Okay, so on that, do you find that you're somebody who sucks people into their bubble or gets sucked into people's bubble?

[1264] I get sucked in, I think.

[1265] Yeah.

[1266] I'm the kind of guy that I go to a party and people have to drag me away from the most boring person in the party because I get stuck with them because I get into them.

[1267] Can you think off the top of your head because there's one I want you to say, but just give me a couple of the actors that you've most enjoyed getting sucked into their bubble.

[1268] Oh, fuck.

[1269] Right?

[1270] Because you're scared that you're saying now your favorite co -stars.

[1271] That's not the question.

[1272] I know, I know.

[1273] But that's what comes to mind.

[1274] Being too protective.

[1275] I could tell you, well, that doesn't happen.

[1276] I could tell you, the negative.

[1277] I assume you're that person for most people.

[1278] No, I don't know.

[1279] Yes, I think so.

[1280] In those fake situations, you fall in love easy, you get bad easy.

[1281] It's easy to empathize.

[1282] That's the beauty of it.

[1283] You're free to do that.

[1284] It is very bizarre, and as you're saying it, maybe it's the first time I thought about it.

[1285] But in your life, you're trying to maintain some kind of status quo, homeostasis, not let yourself get too up, too down.

[1286] But then you have this job where it's like, you go to set and you go like, oh, the gold day is to show the apex of human emotion in this moment and the nadir of human emotion.

[1287] It's absolutely opposite of how you're proceeding through life in a way.

[1288] But I never think about emotion.

[1289] Because to think about emotion is to think about effect.

[1290] And to think about effect, that's what makes you tight.

[1291] And if you think about effect, you put in the cart before the horse.

[1292] Because you get to that funeral scene and, of Of course, if you're stupid, you're going to think, oh, I've got to cry.

[1293] The character's missing his mother.

[1294] Yeah, yeah.

[1295] What if you're there, you're purely pretending, and you think it's a beautiful thing that she's died.

[1296] And you're kind of surprised, and it may not on paper make any psychological sense, but it's happening to you.

[1297] And it's totally valid.

[1298] That's when the beautiful things happen.

[1299] That's why you can't get two websites.

[1300] You've got to have a plan, and then you've got to discard it.

[1301] Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[1302] I think.

[1303] But I don't think about emotions, that's a little dangerous, and that's also what tights you up.

[1304] Well, you know, when you think of the character as to cry in the scene, there's now an objective.

[1305] And so now once there's an objective, there's also failures in the mix.

[1306] Yep.

[1307] Because in essence, you can't fail at it if you're just there.

[1308] You'll fail to be there because you're outside of the scene.

[1309] And this is personal taste.

[1310] Everybody works differently.

[1311] But that idea about substitution, like if you did.

[1312] decide that you're at the funeral and you look at the body and you're coming up dry so you think of your dead dog that you loved as a kid and that's a trigger for you and you can emote.

[1313] That's fair, but I think you're out of the scene.

[1314] Yeah, you are.

[1315] You're in you.

[1316] You're you again.

[1317] Yeah.

[1318] And that may work fine, but somehow it feels too crafty.

[1319] And we know this from some great films where you don't feel the acting because people are there.

[1320] Look, how beautiful it is to see movies where there aren't actors.

[1321] Florida Project.

[1322] Yeah, they tell you what to do because it's their life.

[1323] Yeah.

[1324] They teach you.

[1325] You can't Hollywood it up when they're right next to you because they're living it.

[1326] And you slipstreamed their life.

[1327] Okay.

[1328] The other last thing was, of course, Wes Anderson and Life Aquatic.

[1329] Beautiful experience.

[1330] I mean, I just, I've loved watching you so much.

[1331] It's so fun every time you pop up.

[1332] But then just when you join that world, I was like, oh, here we go.

[1333] This couldn't be more of a match made in heaven.

[1334] Ah, it was fun.

[1335] I would think of two for you, Cohen brothers.

[1336] Yeah, I knew Fran very early, and she also worked with the Worcester Group when I was there.

[1337] Oh, she did.

[1338] I'm such a fan of hers.

[1339] Also, I worked with her on Mississippi Burning, and we became friendly, and I knew Joel, and I like their movies.

[1340] You know, it's one of those things where it just never happened.

[1341] Once they asked me to do something more substantial, and I couldn't do it because of schedule, and they asked me to do a small thing.

[1342] And I couldn't do it.

[1343] So maybe they thought.

[1344] There's still time.

[1345] There's still time.

[1346] Yeah, yeah.

[1347] My question about Life Aquatic is, it seems to me, and I could be totally wrong because I've never been in a Wes Anderson movie, nor have I acted with Bill Murray.

[1348] Bill Murray's great.

[1349] Well, he's my North Star.

[1350] He's always chasing something authentic.

[1351] And you wouldn't think so because in his performances, he seems so wry and it's not glib, but I think he's always trying to find the truth.

[1352] he's also very much about timing in the old -fashioned way.

[1353] The rhythm of the delivery.

[1354] Yeah.

[1355] And that's something you jump on to?

[1356] I did because I enjoy being with him so much.

[1357] I think of you as my dad's.

[1358] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1359] You know, he sets you up.

[1360] It's call and response and he's so good.

[1361] He's slippery.

[1362] God knows.

[1363] But I really enjoyed that.

[1364] And I like the role of just in broad terms, the blowhard German.

[1365] Yes.

[1366] But there was such a weird.

[1367] sweetness to it.

[1368] Yeah, yeah.

[1369] That made it so three -dimensional.

[1370] That's the idea.

[1371] The guy that comes on like he's got it under control, but he's a little boy mess.

[1372] He needs a dad.

[1373] Yeah, yeah.

[1374] But what I was thinking on the surface, just knowing what I think I know about Wes and what I think I know about Bill is that you have on one end, the director who is one of the most meticulous human beings to ever do the thing.

[1375] And then seemingly, you have the actor who's the loosest goose's.

[1376] Let's find out what lightning strikes.

[1377] and you are somehow in the middle of those two things.

[1378] That's good.

[1379] That's good.

[1380] I mean, I like to think I can go between those poles.

[1381] But is it a unique experience to be in that dynamic?

[1382] Yes, I've worked with Wes.

[1383] Life Aquatic was pretty substantial, but so was Grand Budapest.

[1384] But they were very different experiences because Life Aquatic was very loose.

[1385] Still, he had those beautiful, big master shots, very complicated.

[1386] You rehearsed them all.

[1387] day.

[1388] They went on forever.

[1389] If you had a mistake or a stumble or anything, you're in the toilet.

[1390] You've got to go again.

[1391] You do lots of takes.

[1392] And then finally you get it because there's nothing to cut to.

[1393] Right.

[1394] And to remind people, sometimes there's a cross -section of the ship.

[1395] Oh, that section I'm talking about.

[1396] Scene to scene to scene.

[1397] Like there's 12 scenes in 12 different locations.

[1398] And yeah, you fuck up number six.

[1399] Yeah.

[1400] So it's crazy like that.

[1401] But all the time he was adding elements.

[1402] He'd be like, Willam, you go in there.

[1403] And it was exciting.

[1404] And I think he's got more and more articulate and more precise.

[1405] So Life Aquatic was a little bump before that.

[1406] That's fun you've gotten to see the different iterations of it.

[1407] And it's not a criticism at all.

[1408] It's, in fact, a refinement.

[1409] And Life Aquatic is very loopy.

[1410] But the thing that I love about Life Aquatic is it lands at the end.

[1411] You see all these floating things that you don't quite get them.

[1412] You're laughing.

[1413] They're odd.

[1414] They're strange.

[1415] They're beautiful.

[1416] And then at the end, some of those things about father, son, identity, boom.

[1417] And it's really moving.

[1418] You can't believe it.

[1419] And I love that movie for that.

[1420] Yeah.

[1421] It's one of these movies, too, that gets better and better and better as you watch it, which is always an interesting life for a movie.

[1422] One thing I want to say, because I don't want it to go without saying, we've had a lot of people in here who've worked with you.

[1423] I was about to tell that.

[1424] Are you about to tell Rami?

[1425] Oh, Rami.

[1426] We loved Rami.

[1427] But Bradley, I mean, we've had a lot of people.

[1428] lot.

[1429] And you always come up when we ask these questions about like, who do you like working with or what was it like?

[1430] And you're always in the mix of, oh, he's incredible and he sucks you in.

[1431] And he is the North Star and the one.

[1432] You tether yourself to Defoe in the scene.

[1433] I'm touched.

[1434] I really am.

[1435] Yeah.

[1436] It's really common in here.

[1437] Well, this one surprised me. You know who really loved you is Rami.

[1438] It's the most we've fallen in love with the guest in two hours where I was like, I'm ready to move in with you and follow your spiritual journey.

[1439] He's a sweet man and talented and very humble and he's interesting because he balances a lot of contradictory things, you know?

[1440] Yes.

[1441] He's amazing.

[1442] That was my great interest in him as I'm watching his show Rami, which is so fucking good.

[1443] And he has this perspective yet we're still adhering to this old thing.

[1444] And that's confusing to me and how are you making peace with this?

[1445] And he's doing it.

[1446] It's very fascinating.

[1447] I get a sense that he's really got a calling.

[1448] I agree.

[1449] That's always beautiful.

[1450] But he talked about being out at dinner with you in public.

[1451] We had so much fun on that movie, and I'm not known as a funny guy.

[1452] But in that crowd, I always felt like I was a funny guy.

[1453] Oh, that's a good.

[1454] And that's a nice thing, yeah.

[1455] A big time.

[1456] You know, they'd laugh at my jokes.

[1457] Yes.

[1458] Not even laugh at my joke so much as laugh at my making fun of them or making fun of myself.

[1459] Yeah, yeah.

[1460] But what he said is, and I guess I wouldn't have thought of this, but it seems so obvious once he said it, which is he has been around, quote, more famous people, but he's never been around.

[1461] But he was saying, which is so true, and I weirdly kind of relate to it, you're so identifiable.

[1462] You're so specific looking.

[1463] So this happens to my wife.

[1464] My wife is, by all accounts, more famous than me. But if we're in the airport together, they'll look at her and they'll go, oh, that looks like Kristen Bell.

[1465] But they look at me and they're like, well, that's dead.

[1466] Look at that nose.

[1467] struck a nine feet tall.

[1468] That's him.

[1469] So I think you have that.

[1470] There's no like that guy over there looks like Willem DeFoe.

[1471] You're like, holy fuck, it's Willem DeFoe.

[1472] I'm shocked at how recognizable I am.

[1473] Yes.

[1474] I remember even very early, New York City, still a little rough.

[1475] I'm on the subway.

[1476] I'm taking my kid, who's a little kid at that time, to the zoo, which is quite a schlep if you take the subway from downtown to the Bronx.

[1477] And we go through some funky neighborhoods and it's still when the subways weren't that cool.

[1478] And I see this group of young kids come on, the train, and they're looking at us, and they're giving me a hard look.

[1479] And I'm thinking, oh, no, they're not going to give me a hard time with the kid here.

[1480] Right.

[1481] They're looking at me, staring at me. I'm thinking, oh, boy, here we go.

[1482] Oh, no. What am I going to do?

[1483] Yeah, yeah.

[1484] So I'm ready, and I can hear them talking.

[1485] And I hear, no, no, got to be him.

[1486] Nobody looks like that, motherfucker.

[1487] Nobody looks like that motherfucker.

[1488] Oh, that's perfect.

[1489] There's no way there's two of those motherfuckers on this planet.

[1490] I like it and I don't like it, you know.

[1491] It's hard to be anonymous.

[1492] Well, I can deal with that.

[1493] People are so sweet to me. Rami was saying specifically, not only are you insanely recognizable, but the effect he said is immediate.

[1494] People are thrilled.

[1495] I'm getting self -conscious now.

[1496] Of course you are.

[1497] But I really want to impress upon you.

[1498] People are so nice to me that I try to give people as best as I can their time.

[1499] I don't think it's about me. You know, when you take a selfie with someone and you put your arm around them and you feel their body shaking, it's the excitement of contacting something.

[1500] It's not about me. It's about association and about people touching on something.

[1501] People are sweet and they give me lots of good energy.

[1502] And also, just practically speaking, I don't have a huge problem with this.

[1503] I think TV people are people that people see.

[1504] all the time.

[1505] People think they know them.

[1506] In their house.

[1507] That's the key.

[1508] It's in their house.

[1509] That's a big thing.

[1510] They're in their underwear watching you.

[1511] Yeah.

[1512] I don't have that problem.

[1513] But I always feel like whatever makes it go easy, that's better because it's so much more work to say, not now.

[1514] Weirdly is.

[1515] And then you also feel shitty.

[1516] I feel shitty and they feel rejected.

[1517] So you've zung them for no reason at all.

[1518] It's easier to go with it.

[1519] And sometimes I think I'm just small time and I enjoy it.

[1520] That's also a wonderful widow approach.

[1521] All right, poor things.

[1522] Love it.

[1523] Will you pronounce the director's name?

[1524] Yeah.

[1525] Jorgos Lantimos.

[1526] I loved lobster, but I love the favorite.

[1527] Oh, my God.

[1528] Oh, my God.

[1529] What a fucking movie.

[1530] And also I like all of his movies, but to varying degrees, I also like killing of a sacred deer.

[1531] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1532] That's a very interesting movie.

[1533] Back to Houdini.

[1534] Okay, Houdini.

[1535] You see people, they do something, a director.

[1536] I think there's overlap here.

[1537] I think really what it is, it's you go, and you already said it once, how did they do that?

[1538] I kind of want to get close.

[1539] I want to experience it because ultimately I think there's a magic trick that was had and you're like, I want to get in the workshop with this person.

[1540] And not even to demystify it.

[1541] It's about you want to know where it come from and where it's going to.

[1542] You want to be in proximity to this little big of magic, Yeah, yeah.

[1543] And so there's so many ways to evaluate, like do you have the dream career or not?

[1544] And I would argue, especially for what you're interested in, you totally do in the way that when you have a favorite TV show, the notion for me, I remember saying to my agent, like, if I could just be a waiter crossing through in sopranos, I just want to enter the world I love.

[1545] You're virtually in that position where it's like, you find something that gets you excited and you go, let me experience it.

[1546] It's true.

[1547] That's a good spot to be in.

[1548] It is, but let's not talk about it.

[1549] Oh, yeah, you're afraid that jigs it and mess it up.

[1550] Yeah, you're bastard.

[1551] But poor things.

[1552] I'm really excited.

[1553] We're furious.

[1554] They wouldn't give us a link for whatever reason, but so I was only left to watch the trailer.

[1555] So you didn't see it.

[1556] We asked multiple times and then no link.

[1557] All I've got is the trailer.

[1558] You look incredible.

[1559] No, it's a beautiful movie and it's very rich.

[1560] The design is beautiful.

[1561] It's where collaboration works.

[1562] And he is quite amazing.

[1563] If you like the favorite, you'll love this.

[1564] Oh, I can't wait.

[1565] What an exciting fun cast.

[1566] You, Emma Stone, who I just couldn't be more interested in an actor than her, every time she shows up, I'm like, oh, and she can do that, too.

[1567] She's talented, she's smart, and she's available, and she's just a really good person.

[1568] I like being around her.

[1569] She's so balanced and so much fun.

[1570] And you said she's a hard -ass worker, too.

[1571] She shows up to work.

[1572] Yeah, she is.

[1573] She does.

[1574] The collaboration, she's at the center of this movie.

[1575] Yorkworth brought her into it very early.

[1576] she's a producer on the movie.

[1577] They've got a special chemistry between them.

[1578] So we're there to support that thing that they had.

[1579] And then it emanates out and we get touched by it too.

[1580] Had you worked with Ruffalo?

[1581] No, I had met him and he's a Wisconsin boy, you know?

[1582] Oh, he is?

[1583] Yeah.

[1584] I didn't know that.

[1585] He seems so incredible.

[1586] I have a poll to his, what seems to be his spirit that I can't explain.

[1587] He's really great in this.

[1588] He has a really good time.

[1589] and it's a great role.

[1590] You'll just laugh your ass off.

[1591] Did you see the fox catcher?

[1592] I did.

[1593] I found him to be so devastating in that.

[1594] Also, that director, Bennett Miller, has not made a bad movie.

[1595] There aren't too many directors that you can say that too.

[1596] But all of his movies, maybe there are more, but I can think of four, and they're all great.

[1597] It's hard to do.

[1598] Because, again, there's magic.

[1599] You can have all the ingredients, but also something happens when you put in the oven.

[1600] Yeah, yeah.

[1601] You crush your fingers.

[1602] But this looks so beautiful.

[1603] And not to be trashy, but it had a budget, thank God.

[1604] It's beautiful.

[1605] Your character, you're a mad, you're a Frankenstein character.

[1606] Don't say mad.

[1607] Okay.

[1608] Because that sends us to another place.

[1609] And that's not what it's about.

[1610] Okay.

[1611] What can you tell us about?

[1612] Well, you put a baby brain and an adult woman, right?

[1613] Yeah.

[1614] Some people might on the surface call that mad.

[1615] But you don't know his situation.

[1616] No, yeah.

[1617] Wait, that's the premise.

[1618] The premise is she is William's creation, Dr. Goodwin Baxter, and she has a baby brain in an adult woman's body.

[1619] Someone told me this is a spoiler, so I don't know.

[1620] Well, that was in the trailer.

[1621] That's basically it.

[1622] So then you have a woman that physically is a woman, but she's got a baby's brain.

[1623] So she's learning everything.

[1624] And she has no social conditioning, no filter.

[1625] so she's just telling it like it is.

[1626] So she's an innocent and she's the wisest person in the world because she's not tainted by all the constructs.

[1627] And which are particularly rigid in this imagined Victorian era, which is dealt with in a very fantastical way.

[1628] Some artistic license is taken there in the design that is just spectacular.

[1629] You guys haven't been able to see it, But we're going to get to in a few days.

[1630] We'll pay money and go see it as it should be.

[1631] That's true.

[1632] Exactly.

[1633] It premiered at Venice, is that what it was?

[1634] It premiered at Venice and won the top prize, which is no small feat.

[1635] Yeah.

[1636] Rightly so.

[1637] And it's received very good response so far.

[1638] In Rami's his protege, an aspiring, not mad.

[1639] He's a student of mine.

[1640] But the relationships are beautiful.

[1641] And then this woman, I don't know what to tell because what's a spoiler.

[1642] Right, that's the fear.

[1643] You know.

[1644] I'm excited to see her explore her sexuality.

[1645] That was the part that gets explored that I want to most see.

[1646] Well, of course.

[1647] No, it's different.

[1648] There's something deeper.

[1649] It's very rich, thematically, visually.

[1650] Such a detailed world, such a specific world.

[1651] It's funny.

[1652] It's a beautiful movie.

[1653] I'm so excited.

[1654] This is the movie I'm most excited about this year by far.

[1655] We'll go to the movie theater.

[1656] Okay.

[1657] Sorry, I didn't know what a spoiler was.

[1658] Maybe they're trying to...

[1659] They might be trying to not have the spoilers out early or something.

[1660] And they know I'm a big mouth.

[1661] Last thing, unsolicited advice, you don't need any.

[1662] But did you see Triangle of Sadness?

[1663] I did.

[1664] Did you enjoy it?

[1665] I enjoyed it, but he made a better movie.

[1666] Yes.

[1667] It is a perfect movie.

[1668] The Square or Force Majure?

[1669] I thought Force Majure.

[1670] What a movie.

[1671] And what's interesting is not because of great performances.

[1672] It's the themes.

[1673] so beautiful.

[1674] It put its finger on a very male thing.

[1675] That's like hard to articulate, but is so at the center of so many things.

[1676] The fact that that one event ruined his entire...

[1677] Exposed and ruined his entire life.

[1678] Because he couldn't just say I was a fucking coward.

[1679] I was afraid.

[1680] I threw you under the bus.

[1681] Yep.

[1682] Because it's not fair to make me be responsible.

[1683] for that because I'm a pussy.

[1684] Yes, yes, yes.

[1685] It's so good.

[1686] Well, why'd you bring that up?

[1687] You want Willem to work with him?

[1688] No, I'd love to.

[1689] You know, who knows?

[1690] People, you have it.

[1691] You know, sometimes they get you wrong.

[1692] I was like shocked once.

[1693] I can't remember who it was, but someone I wanted to work with said, oh, he's got such a modern face.

[1694] It was for a period movie.

[1695] I thought, are you fucking kidding me?

[1696] What does that mean?

[1697] No, not only what does it mean.

[1698] I've seen paintings where I see myself, you know?

[1699] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1700] Yeah, the face doesn't change that much.

[1701] No, people just have ideas.

[1702] That's what I mean.

[1703] And they get stuck.

[1704] Yeah.

[1705] But that's okay.

[1706] Okay, Willem.

[1707] Yeah.

[1708] This is so delightful.

[1709] I'm so glad that you were willing to do this on a Sunday.

[1710] I'm so glad we got to spend her Sunday with you.

[1711] Because I'm here today and I know you don't usually tape on a Sunday.

[1712] Oh, no. We would meet you on a subway.

[1713] That's right.

[1714] Any time in the Bronx, 3 a .m. We would do anything.

[1715] New York.

[1716] I thought, it's done.

[1717] It's what everyone said.

[1718] It's a city of goes for me. It's gentrified, only rich people.

[1719] And recently I had to go there and I had lots of meetings.

[1720] It was impossible with the schedule I had to make it with the cabs.

[1721] Right.

[1722] You had to take the subway.

[1723] It was great.

[1724] It reaffirmed what I love about New York.

[1725] There is still.

[1726] There's still grit.

[1727] A lot of grit.

[1728] And I'll keep in mind, everybody in that place has a $1 ,000 cell phone or whatever, you know?

[1729] True.

[1730] I had the exact same experience.

[1731] Four weeks ago, I talked about it on a fact check.

[1732] We rode the subway everywhere for whatever reason.

[1733] My wife and I were there.

[1734] Do you get busted a lot?

[1735] Yeah.

[1736] Their people are cool, huh?

[1737] Yeah, yeah.

[1738] Particularly in New York.

[1739] Especially in New York.

[1740] It's like, you're my buddy.

[1741] We're like the fifth exciting thing they had seen that morning.

[1742] They saw a guy take a shit on one of the platforms.

[1743] Someone got nice.

[1744] You know, there's a car accident.

[1745] And then we're there and they're like, yeah, it doesn't really peak above what we just saw.

[1746] But it is cool.

[1747] It's the perfect amount on the subway.

[1748] It's like you get a smile and you get away with some stuff that otherwise you want it.

[1749] It's the dream.

[1750] But yeah, I was reminded of like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1751] As a point of being, I should be on that subway more than I am.

[1752] And people cooperate.

[1753] That's what's kind of amazing.

[1754] A city like that, there's too much misery and it's too hard living that way.

[1755] You'd think people would wake up and kill each other.

[1756] And they really don't.

[1757] No. Yeah.

[1758] Well, a delight.

[1759] I'm really, really glad you were willing.

[1760] Thank you.

[1761] Yes.

[1762] Great luck.

[1763] I hope everyone sees poor things.

[1764] It's out right now.

[1765] Looks beautiful.

[1766] It's got the best cast imaginable.

[1767] Sounds complex as hell.

[1768] In a great way.

[1769] Yes.

[1770] Layers, layers, layers.

[1771] I hope we'll get to talk to you again someday.

[1772] This is so much fun.

[1773] Yeah, sure.

[1774] I'm into it.

[1775] Good.

[1776] Take care.

[1777] Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong.

[1778] Good morning.

[1779] You're still wearing your new shoes.

[1780] They're still pretty white.

[1781] Yeah.

[1782] Not for long.

[1783] Will you get them cleaned if they get dirty?

[1784] Do you have a place that?

[1785] Like, people who collect Jordans have shoe cleaners.

[1786] I don't.

[1787] I want to be a person who does that.

[1788] I just don't.

[1789] I've talked about this with several of my male black friends.

[1790] For them, the sneakers have to be spotless, which I get the history of.

[1791] It's a new thing you want.

[1792] Weirdly, where I grew up, you wanted your shoes dirty.

[1793] It was like the opposite.

[1794] It was embarrassing to have new.

[1795] flashy shoes.

[1796] The tall poppy thing, I think.

[1797] There was like, it was somehow cooler that your shit was worn out and I have a hard time.

[1798] You had that too.

[1799] Yeah, yeah.

[1800] Yeah, so I can't really shake that.

[1801] Even these boots, I'm like, I can't wait to these are worn and they look crazy right now.

[1802] I could see that.

[1803] Their boots are pink.

[1804] I know.

[1805] I like them.

[1806] Kind of like a mauve pink.

[1807] Yeah, they match your shirt.

[1808] Ish.

[1809] From this distance, yeah, when I held them up next to each other, it's not a match, but it's enough.

[1810] But you don't want it to be perfect.

[1811] Okay.

[1812] It's like, I guess, this new clean shoe thing.

[1813] You don't want it to be perfect.

[1814] Because the shirt's almost a salmon and the boots are almost a pink.

[1815] Well, what I like is it looks like the shirt matches the laces.

[1816] Oh, great.

[1817] That's what you're better.

[1818] You know what?

[1819] You're right.

[1820] That is a bingo.

[1821] Salmon laces and pink.

[1822] But these are red wings and they just came out with a light pinkish color.

[1823] What are red wings?

[1824] Red wings are the ultimate work booth.

[1825] Oh.

[1826] Yeah.

[1827] I feel like this is like an episode ad.

[1828] It's not at all.

[1829] I've always loved Red Wings.

[1830] They're workboots, but they're kind of like workboots if you're a finished carpenter.

[1831] Like if you're in the house more than you're out of the house.

[1832] Like a Doc Martin?

[1833] But no?

[1834] No, no. What would be a comparable work boot?

[1835] It's escaping my name.

[1836] But they're work.

[1837] Carhart's?

[1838] Oh, Carters.

[1839] Are they a work boot?

[1840] They're a children's clothing brand.

[1841] Yeah, then they're just like Carter's boots.

[1842] Timberland?

[1843] Yeah, Timberland.

[1844] Oh, I used to love Timberland.

[1845] Yeah.

[1846] They were really hot for a second.

[1847] Yeah.

[1848] Yep, Timberland's a good work, dude.

[1849] Okay, cool.

[1850] Yeah.

[1851] I'm really behind on my Christmas shopping.

[1852] Same.

[1853] It's not good.

[1854] I've bought one present.

[1855] Me too.

[1856] You do?

[1857] I got one thing for Natalie so far.

[1858] I really, really need to get on it.

[1859] Before we started this, we could hear, Rob and I could hear, the crane at your house.

[1860] You've got the neighborhood shut down.

[1861] Do you know that?

[1862] Yeah, I do.

[1863] Do you love it?

[1864] No, I don't love being a problem.

[1865] How long is it shut down for?

[1866] Hopefully not.

[1867] I don't think too many more days.

[1868] It was loud.

[1869] The crane was loud?

[1870] The cement truck, too.

[1871] Yeah, I guess it was a cement truck that was loud.

[1872] Oh, they're pouring cement back there?

[1873] Mm -hmm.

[1874] How exciting.

[1875] I went jogging yesterday in the neighborhood and it's closed down, we're just in front of your house.

[1876] And I was on foot and I was getting some looks from some of the folks.

[1877] And then I thought, are they going to say I can't pass here on foot?

[1878] Yeah.

[1879] But I did.

[1880] Good.

[1881] But I had that little pang of anxiety that there was going to be a power struggle about whether I could jog by.

[1882] Yeah.

[1883] So stuff's happening, which is exciting.

[1884] My designers were picked, they won some architecture, AD award.

[1885] today.

[1886] What does AD stand for, Architectural Digest?

[1887] Yeah.

[1888] Oh, how exciting?

[1889] Very.

[1890] Nikki Kehoe did.

[1891] Mm -hmm.

[1892] Oh, wonderful.

[1893] You had dinner with Liz last night.

[1894] I dinner with Liz.

[1895] We went to Craigs.

[1896] Oh, you did?

[1897] That's your spot now.

[1898] Well, it's the second time I've been.

[1899] Any more paparazzi photos?

[1900] No. Okay.

[1901] No, they were there, but I didn't see any flashes and I didn't see anyone who was CNBC.

[1902] Uh -huh.

[1903] But it was fun.

[1904] Oh, and Liz, her doctor told her that she should try to incorporate some meat into her diet.

[1905] Oh.

[1906] And so she tried chicken.

[1907] Okay.

[1908] What'd she think?

[1909] It was.

[1910] It was.

[1911] And don't they have a famous chicken there?

[1912] Isn't that what they're known for?

[1913] They do.

[1914] She didn't get that one, though.

[1915] Interesting.

[1916] She got a roast chicken.

[1917] Well, she can't also have some other stuff.

[1918] Okay.

[1919] So she couldn't have that.

[1920] But the roast chicken she got, and she did good.

[1921] She ate some bites.

[1922] Some bites.

[1923] Yeah.

[1924] It's going to be a slow transition, I think.

[1925] But she's doing her best.

[1926] And she obviously, she felt ethically that the bird's the least offensive.

[1927] Is that why she chose chicken?

[1928] So I'd like to get her into a fucking big old cheeseburger.

[1929] That's not.

[1930] That's the best tasting meat there is.

[1931] That would be like zero to a hundred going red meat.

[1932] It's funny distinctions we all have, not being critical of it, but we do all have all these distinctions like this animal, but not this animal, but animals, but not this animal.

[1933] Well, it's also like the taste, like to me I would say, Beef is very meaty.

[1934] But would you agree?

[1935] Well, you tell me, what do you think is the best tasting meat?

[1936] I guess I would say beef.

[1937] I do really like chicken, though.

[1938] I do too, but if I'm being honest about chicken, now, granted, there are some rotisserie birds that are beautiful.

[1939] Yeah.

[1940] But in general, what I would be comparing the hamburger to would be the chicken sandwich at Houston.

[1941] Or chick -fil -a.

[1942] But that's breading.

[1943] You have to put this beautiful, delicious, crispy breading on it to make it maybe be and a two -way tie with a great burger.

[1944] But a fucking smash burger with no bullshit is outrageously tasty.

[1945] I guess that's true.

[1946] It's like if you're thinking of just a patty.

[1947] Yeah, like a chicken breast versus...

[1948] Yeah, just a patty.

[1949] I don't think that.

[1950] That's not even close for me. Yeah.

[1951] Or even let's throw bacon in the mess.

[1952] I was going to say, you're missing bacon.

[1953] Yeah, perfectly crispy piece of bacon.

[1954] You're thick and crispy.

[1955] And if your doctor told you eat some meat, like, let's start there.

[1956] That is the tastiest piece of meat you come by.

[1957] I do love, I do love bacon.

[1958] Fucking bacon.

[1959] So good.

[1960] I really wish I could have a BLT.

[1961] Oh.

[1962] That's what I would like to have.

[1963] You could probably make one easy.

[1964] The gluten -free bread is garbage.

[1965] It just isn't a great gluten -free bread.

[1966] Yeah.

[1967] Although I will say there's one at Cafe 101 that at least allows me to make an egg sandwich and dip the bread in the yolk, which is the thing I miss the most.

[1968] It's enough.

[1969] It's enough.

[1970] But I don't think for a BLT it would be good enough.

[1971] You've probably never even tried.

[1972] that terrible bread, have you?

[1973] I don't think so.

[1974] Yeah.

[1975] I mean, I've had so many gluten -free things with Cali.

[1976] So maybe there's a chance, but I don't remember it.

[1977] No, what's interesting is they have perfected, like, a gluten -free cupcake can be delicious.

[1978] There are gluten -free snacky items that really work.

[1979] And so you could be misled, like, you could have a gluten -free cupcake and go, like, yeah, this isn't much of a concession.

[1980] And then assume, well, the bread must be a similar concession.

[1981] Yeah.

[1982] That's not the case.

[1983] Yeah.

[1984] I'm trying to think.

[1985] It was so funny because Callie went gluten -free in college.

[1986] Wow.

[1987] And it was so early.

[1988] Did she have some medical condition?

[1989] Yes.

[1990] She has celiac.

[1991] Yeah.

[1992] Yeah.

[1993] So it was before the trend of it.

[1994] Yeah.

[1995] Yeah.

[1996] So very few people were diagnosed with that.

[1997] Yeah.

[1998] And it was impossible.

[1999] It was so hard for her to eat anything.

[2000] Yeah.

[2001] In 2005 or whatever year.

[2002] Yeah, and to like go to restaurants because it's, it's hidden.

[2003] If you have an allergy, you see how it's everywhere.

[2004] It is ever, it's in everything.

[2005] It's in soy sauce.

[2006] It's in gravy.

[2007] Yes.

[2008] And people, when you would say like, is it gluten free, they didn't, no one knew what that meant.

[2009] Yeah, they didn't even know.

[2010] You'd have to like do your own research.

[2011] It was crazy.

[2012] It was crazy.

[2013] So she's really got to see a whole industry.

[2014] She was, got in at the ground floor.

[2015] She was an early adopter.

[2016] Yeah, my cousin had that where she.

[2017] What can happen if you have it, well, whatever, the version of my cousin had it, it can inflame your whole digestive tract so much your digestive tract can't absorb any nutrients.

[2018] So she was eating, but she was basically dying of malnutrition.

[2019] And it ended up in the hospital like, what she's dying, what's going on?

[2020] And that's how serious the celiac was for her.

[2021] Is she Irish?

[2022] Well, we're, we have the exact same bloodline.

[2023] Well, no, we have half of it's different.

[2024] Then that's significant.

[2025] But, you know, this is the interesting thing about my Papa Bob and Grandma Yolis and my Uncle Jerry, her Papa Jerry, and Auntie Juan.

[2026] Because two sisters married two brothers.

[2027] So really her side of that bloodline is identical.

[2028] Even though we're cousins, my dad and her mom are like siblings.

[2029] They have the exact same amount of genetic diversity as they would with their sibling, which is weird.

[2030] That is weird.

[2031] Yeah, they would refer to themselves as double first cousins.

[2032] I don't know if that's an actual term.

[2033] Oh.

[2034] But it is interesting to have cousins that you have the same two parent's dreams.

[2035] Right.

[2036] Interesting.

[2037] Weird.

[2038] Yeah.

[2039] That's kind of cool.

[2040] It is cool.

[2041] And they hung out and out and stopped, you know.

[2042] And they live one block over from each other.

[2043] So sweet.

[2044] That's really sweet.

[2045] Well, anyway, it's apparently prevalent in the Irish community.

[2046] Siliat?

[2047] Yeah.

[2048] Yeah.

[2049] God.

[2050] And then there's also a lot of redheads in the Irish population.

[2051] And, you know, there's a lot to look out for your Irish.

[2052] You think you're, you think you've got it made.

[2053] You're going to be singing Gaelic songs and playing a flute and drinking Guinness.

[2054] But guess what?

[2055] You keep your eyes peeled for some other stuff, too.

[2056] Well, I don't know that, I don't know that.

[2057] It's all, it's not all leprechauns and rainbows.

[2058] But redhead didness, minus the lower pain threshold.

[2059] And the adverse reaction to anesthetic, anesthesia.

[2060] right and then what happens when they get in fist fights sure uh mine is that it's great to be a redhead tell me why it's gorgeous oh i love it yes yes me too aesthetically i think it's very pleasing yeah someone i posted the other day because emma stone you know what do you what color do you think her hair is hmm got a red tint to brown red like that's most people think of her as a redhead do they yeah very mild though right well Well, she actually has blonde hair.

[2061] Oh, there we go.

[2062] It just was dyed.

[2063] Yeah, okay, yeah.

[2064] But maybe when she came into, like, being known, she had red hair.

[2065] Uh -huh.

[2066] So a lot of people.

[2067] Yeah, a lot of people think when she wears blonde hair, it looks wrong, but it's actually exactly correct.

[2068] It's right.

[2069] Yeah.

[2070] Okay.

[2071] I can't wait to see her movie with Willem.

[2072] Oh, is this who this is?

[2073] Yeah.

[2074] I'm so excited.

[2075] Willam is so artistic.

[2076] I find him intimidating.

[2077] Yeah.

[2078] Do you at all?

[2079] Yeah.

[2080] Well, yeah, I do.

[2081] I do.

[2082] I agree.

[2083] Yeah.

[2084] But just because of his experience and his, not because he's, like, mean or like, he was very kind.

[2085] Oh, absolutely.

[2086] I just, like, it wasn't his demeanor so much as everything he's come with.

[2087] It's all what I'm projecting.

[2088] It's all my stuff.

[2089] Yeah, which is.

[2090] What is interesting, though, is I would put like Kate Blanchett in his category.

[2091] But I wouldn't be.

[2092] intimidated.

[2093] It would be a different sensation.

[2094] So I'm wondering how much of it is like male on male.

[2095] And I'm wondering for you.

[2096] Yeah.

[2097] Because the insecure side of me says, well, I have nothing to offer this guy.

[2098] Right?

[2099] Like he's on another, he's on this artistic trip.

[2100] And I'm, I'm not like someone he's going to be interested in.

[2101] But I think maybe male, female, I always have the hope.

[2102] Well, we could have fun chatting still.

[2103] Like, I could have some, I have at least my maleness to offer.

[2104] Oh, interesting.

[2105] Do you think you would feel more intimidated by Kate Blanchett than Willem?

[2106] No, I think I'd feel the same.

[2107] Okay, interesting.

[2108] Mainly because I don't think I have to offer either of them anything.

[2109] Oh, that's healthy.

[2110] That's not really our, I mean, unless, if they were in my life, yes, I would feel that way.

[2111] And I would want, like, their approval or I would want to feel like I was.

[2112] giving something.

[2113] Yeah.

[2114] But in this job, no, other than having them feel comfortable to talk.

[2115] Well, but that's what I was going to say is, like, it's very basic for me, which is what is not a fun episode of this show is if I'm just interviewing somebody and I'm asking them questions.

[2116] If they're interested in us, now we have a conversation that's building on itself.

[2117] I'm floating an idea that appeals to them.

[2118] They build on that.

[2119] And then I build on theirs.

[2120] and then it just keep climbing on this mutual interest in what each other is saying and wanting to further perfect it.

[2121] If you're disinterested in me and I'm just a dude that's gonna go through 60 questions with you, that doesn't, that's not fun for me and I don't think it makes for a good show.

[2122] So if I get it in my mind that this person would naturally have zero interest in me, then I have that bit of anxiety.

[2123] Right.

[2124] I get that.

[2125] You know how it is.

[2126] Like if you, this is, this is, human nature.

[2127] If you meet someone that you think doesn't have anything interesting going on, you're not going to engage them in conversation.

[2128] Right.

[2129] You're going to kind of avoid that conversation.

[2130] Yeah.

[2131] I guess that's true.

[2132] That is definitely true.

[2133] I think it's a little different here because even if they come here thinking, I'm not that interested.

[2134] Right.

[2135] And I'm just going to answer questions.

[2136] Once the conversation starts, it's comfortable enough.

[2137] And I feel like you should be confident enough that you can have an interesting conversation with a person and that quickly they'll be like, oh, yeah, I want to talk to this person.

[2138] And I do have that.

[2139] And then it becomes a matter of like, will it be, will it take a half an hour for that moment to happen?

[2140] It's happened a bunch in here.

[2141] And it's totally fair.

[2142] I'm not even saying these people should come in with some excitement to talk to me. That isn't even my assumption.

[2143] But like Pete, um, the coach, Pete Carroll.

[2144] Pete Carroll.

[2145] Pete Carroll.

[2146] That like really sticks out in my mind.

[2147] He clearly was told to come here.

[2148] That's just one, that's, that is the, the foundation of the experience from the, is like, someone told him, you really should do this.

[2149] No desire to do it.

[2150] I know the moment, it just like, it clicked and he went, oh, wait, I'm enjoying being here.

[2151] And then it, then it took this fascinating turn.

[2152] And I love it.

[2153] And I do think we can always get there.

[2154] Just in the dream world, we'd start there.

[2155] I get it.

[2156] Because then we're building higher and higher.

[2157] It's like, do we start building halfway through this experience?

[2158] Or do we start from the second, like, when.

[2159] John Batisse walks in, and it starts immediately.

[2160] Yeah.

[2161] So that makes sense.

[2162] It's more intimidating if you feel like you have more to do at the top or something to get them there.

[2163] Yes.

[2164] I get that.

[2165] And then I go back to this generic thought about male -female -ness.

[2166] Like, I find that the opposite sex is always more interesting in some weird way because they think of the world differently or they're experiencing the world differently.

[2167] So I'm just always a little bit more interested.

[2168] Yeah, that's.

[2169] I rightly or wrongly presumed to already know too much about most dudes.

[2170] Oh, yeah.

[2171] So that could limit your curiosity.

[2172] Yeah.

[2173] That picture of him as a young person is shocking.

[2174] He's gorgeous, right?

[2175] People should look it up.

[2176] He's just been working for so long that I don't think of him as that at all.

[2177] No, you met this version.

[2178] Yeah.

[2179] He's so talented.

[2180] And even I, I think the very first thing I saw him in was most likely Platoon, which is 80, I don't know, eight or nine or something like that.

[2181] Yeah, and he very much looks like the Willem we know.

[2182] But the 70s version, the young kid, could have been like in a cigarette ad.

[2183] Speaking of that, speaking of his work, so he worked with Nick Cage three times.

[2184] He had said to him, and he was like, maybe a third, but he couldn't remember, but it...

[2185] Can you imagine not remembering if you worked with Nick Cage one, two, or three times?

[2186] Yeah, well, when you've done 150 movies, he did Wild at Heart, Dog Eat Dog, and shadow of a vampire.

[2187] Uh -huh.

[2188] Uh -huh.

[2189] They did those three.

[2190] Okay.

[2191] So Houdini was born in Budapest.

[2192] How many people still die of diarrhea?

[2193] Oh, interesting.

[2194] That was a conversation?

[2195] Yes, because...

[2196] Oh, because of Mamma Mia, Papa Pia.

[2197] Exactly.

[2198] And you know how we were talking about how you can't spell anonymous?

[2199] Yeah.

[2200] I can't spell diarrhea.

[2201] Yeah, it's an incredibly hard one because there's an R .H. in there.

[2202] Yeah, I need a technique.

[2203] Can I try to spell it right now?

[2204] D -I -A -R -H -I -A?

[2205] D -I -A -R -R.

[2206] Oh, fuck that.

[2207] H -E -A.

[2208] Oh, fuck you.

[2209] I hate this language of ours.

[2210] Really hard.

[2211] That one is maddening.

[2212] That one's tough.

[2213] That one's tough.

[2214] Oh, my God.

[2215] There are four types of diarrhea.

[2216] Yeah.

[2217] I think I must have experienced all of them.

[2218] I'm sure.

[2219] Yeah.

[2220] Hot and flashy.

[2221] No. Okay.

[2222] What if the names were like, Lucy Goosey, but these were scientific terms.

[2223] Sorry, interrupted you.

[2224] That's okay.

[2225] Osmotic secretory.

[2226] Ooh.

[2227] Is that when a secretary has?

[2228] It sounds like it.

[2229] Exudative.

[2230] That feels like what I have.

[2231] Rapid intestinal transit.

[2232] Oh my God.

[2233] Glad I've not had the bloody version.

[2234] Same.

[2235] Now, mind you.

[2236] have an anal fissure, I think I've talked about it before.

[2237] Yeah, but it wasn't.

[2238] But it wasn't related to Hannis.

[2239] In fact, I was praying for Hannis at that point because the harder the, the more it would open up the, oh, yeah.

[2240] You start wondering, can one ever get over this because you have to poop every day?

[2241] Yeah, because it's a constant, yeah.

[2242] Yeah.

[2243] How does it?

[2244] You just, it just heals.

[2245] Well, you start taking a softener.

[2246] Oh, okay.

[2247] Stool softener.

[2248] Sure.

[2249] That's step one.

[2250] Okay, great.

[2251] Yeah, yeah.

[2252] And then it heals.

[2253] Yeah, over time, it heals.

[2254] Wow.

[2255] It's one of those things, too, where it's like, just time goes by and you look up and you go, oh, wow, I think it's been six months since that happened.

[2256] I guess we're over it.

[2257] You know these things?

[2258] Yeah.

[2259] Like a backache or whatever.

[2260] It's not sometimes until months later where you go, oh, that's passed.

[2261] Yeah, I've been dealing with that with this freckle on my finger.

[2262] You keep trying to get rid of it and it keeps coming back.

[2263] Yeah.

[2264] It's always going to come back, Monaco.

[2265] No, it's not.

[2266] I've done a great job getting rid of freckle on.

[2267] in the past.

[2268] Okay.

[2269] And this one is stubborn, but...

[2270] You just pick it off?

[2271] That's what happening?

[2272] Yeah, I dig in and then I get it out.

[2273] And unfortunately, this one likes to reappear and make...

[2274] Are you sure it's in a whart?

[2275] Well, I don't know.

[2276] I think maybe I've made it something that wasn't.

[2277] A scar now?

[2278] Yeah.

[2279] Do you ever gna at all?

[2280] Yeah.

[2281] Anna is very angry.

[2282] with me about this freckle procedure.

[2283] Yeah.

[2284] She thinks I'm making cancer.

[2285] Yep.

[2286] Well, you're increasing your odds of it.

[2287] Yeah, because cancer happens when cells are going through mitosis and they mutate.

[2288] And so the more they go through mitosis, you're up in your chances of mutation.

[2289] When she said that, I fought back, but in my head, I did think, God, she might be right.

[2290] But at this point, I'm too far in.

[2291] Okay.

[2292] And I need it gone.

[2293] I would love it if you had a freckle there.

[2294] You could show us and we could take pictures of it.

[2295] It's interesting because you like freckles on other people.

[2296] Freckles are great on people, but not on me. Interesting.

[2297] Yeah.

[2298] So, I mean, maybe I should go to the doctor and just get it checked out.

[2299] That's an out.

[2300] Yeah, that's a good option.

[2301] Made a cancer.

[2302] Oh my God, she just texted me. Anna?

[2303] Oh, I have an update.

[2304] I met in this.

[2305] I would have never thought I would have met this person.

[2306] What you mean?

[2307] I met Christopher Columbus last night.

[2308] Oh, yeah.

[2309] That's so cool.

[2310] Oh, my God.

[2311] I was shocked with what an incredible personality he had.

[2312] Oh, wow.

[2313] Oh, he is so fun and playful and young.

[2314] Because I was thinking.

[2315] Really?

[2316] Yes.

[2317] And at one point I turned to him and I said, Chris, I'm having a hard time connecting your face that I'm seeing right now with the notion that you directed Home Alone in 1980, whatever yeah how old were you when you made that movie and he said 30 or 31 wow he's like well that explains he was that young yes and then we got into this fun conversation about how young spielberg was 27 yeah and had already directed a bunch before that 27 and he said uh yeah he was in film school and that was the guy right like they were all racing he would do something at some age and everyone that was currently in film school was like, oh, God, we've got to do something, you know.

[2318] Yeah.

[2319] He was very much present as a force of a youthfuluteur.

[2320] Yeah.

[2321] I thought you were doing a bit that you met the explorer, Christopher Columbus last time.

[2322] Perhaps I also met.

[2323] Maybe they're one and the same.

[2324] I wouldn't doubt it.

[2325] The spirit was strong.

[2326] Okay, back to diarrhea, though.

[2327] Oh, thank you.

[2328] In 2019, around 1 .5 million people died from diarrheal diseases.

[2329] you know what's sad i use most of those people are children i think probably infants it's more than all violent deaths combined diarrhea yeah sad yeah you don't want Aaron and i used to say our other friend Aaron's dad died of diarrhea that's not what and we can make this jokes of all three of our dads died young sure but we always claim that Tyrell's dad died of diarrhea well did he and i don't even know why that's a bit but it's been going on for a long long time oh wow okay yeah the diarrhea caught up with them.

[2330] You don't want to look at some of the picks.

[2331] I don't mean because of the poop, but there are a bunch of kids and stuff.

[2332] It's sad.

[2333] Okay, I looked up a little bit about psychedelics and identity.

[2334] We've talked about it before, but I'll just read a little bit from UC News.

[2335] Like University of California.

[2336] Yeah.

[2337] But not the University of California.

[2338] It might be because it's a dot EDU.

[2339] No, I'm sorry, Cincinnati, this scientist.

[2340] Says people often get stuck in the same ruts of behavior responding the same way to stressors or other triggers.

[2341] She likens it to a downhill skier who uses the same grooved path down the mountain that they have used a thousand other times.

[2342] It's not simple, but it's a metaphor for how we talk about psychedelics.

[2343] Psychedelics have been compared to skiing in fresh snow, she said.

[2344] The entrenched grooves of bad habits might not have as much pull on our skis so we can lay down other paths.

[2345] We're looking for ways to help people shift behaviors and overcome the inertia of, their habits that are more in line with their goals and aspirations.

[2346] Yeah.

[2347] Okay, we talked about how you watched the commentary of Thief, and that was bad for you.

[2348] Yep, yeah.

[2349] So then I looked up the best DVD commentaries.

[2350] Oh.

[2351] According to Indie Wire.

[2352] Here's the list.

[2353] Taxi driver.

[2354] Oh.

[2355] Well, I'm going to add one to this list, but continue.

[2356] I don't want it.

[2357] No, go.

[2358] Well, I just want to say that on the Miller's Crossing DVD, the Coen Brothers maybe third movie, Barry Sondonfeld as an extra bonus material on that DVD, explains how he shot Miller's Crossing versus how he shot Raising Arizona.

[2359] Oh.

[2360] And it is a 30 -minute master class on cinematography.

[2361] Like, I watched that, and I was like, oh, my God, I know everything about lenses now.

[2362] And I know what purpose they serve.

[2363] And I know how you can use them to give different feels.

[2364] And it's like, what a bonus.

[2365] To me, that was like the gift of all gifts.

[2366] Cool.

[2367] The graduate.

[2368] Okay, taxi driver is Sony.

[2369] Several.

[2370] Yeah, Sony.

[2371] The graduate is Criterion.

[2372] Criterion collection.

[2373] Because.

[2374] I love that you're giving the distributor.

[2375] Well, because they probably have the graduate.

[2376] graduate regular.

[2377] I got you.

[2378] You're afraid the commentary is not on the reduced price bin.

[2379] Boogie Nights, new line.

[2380] Okay, great.

[2381] That's the studio.

[2382] Oh, okay.

[2383] Well, that isn't it?

[2384] Paul Thomas Anderson stopped recording commentary tracks after the two he laid down for this, his second feature.

[2385] And it's a shame because a few directors are as infectiously enthusiastic and inspiring when talking about their work.

[2386] Okay, so that's kind of limited a dish.

[2387] I want to see that now.

[2388] I want to watch it with a commentary.

[2389] I know.

[2390] Following Christopher Nolan, Criterion.

[2391] Wait, Nolan has a movie called Following?

[2392] Christopher Nolan had no money with which to make his 1999 debut feature, and he used the resources he did have, time, talent, and creative freedom brilliantly, creating a riveting contemporary noir that introduces several of the themes and techniques I would characterize later Nolan films like Memento and Inception.

[2393] Wow, I thought Memento was his first movie.

[2394] His DVD commentary focuses specifically on how he overcame his limitations.

[2395] by doing things like blocking the action near windows to save on lighting, staging conversations on rooftops to get urban exteriors without permits or sound problems and rehearsing for six months so that the actors could get in and out of stolen locations quickly with one or two takes.

[2396] The budget was $6 ,000 on that movie.

[2397] That's the budget of Brothers Justice, 5 -3.

[2398] Wow.

[2399] Okay.

[2400] Citizen Kane, Criterion.

[2401] The counselor, Fox.

[2402] Ridley Scott's best movie, Sorry, Blade Runner.

[2403] Oh, wow.

[2404] Also has his best commentary track, though this is much more than a typical audio commentary.

[2405] The narration is interspersed with video feature that interrupt the movie at various points to take the viewer deep inside the making of the film.

[2406] Oh, so it's more like watching a doc about the making of.

[2407] Pan's Labyrinth.

[2408] Wow, they did one.

[2409] That feels post.

[2410] Criterion.

[2411] That feels after.

[2412] People weren't even buying DVDs when Pan's Labyrinth came out.

[2413] No, I would.

[2414] Yeah, those 2 ,06.

[2415] Yeah.

[2416] People are still buying.

[2417] Oh, my God.

[2418] DVDs.

[2419] Yeah, I had that on DVD.

[2420] Wow.

[2421] You should listen to that.

[2422] Not criterion, but it wasn't on criterion yet.

[2423] Yeah.

[2424] You should see if it's got the commentary.

[2425] It doesn't.

[2426] Only Criterion has it.

[2427] I don't know.

[2428] Yes, that's the case.

[2429] That's the case.

[2430] Okay.

[2431] This is Sim, because I've never seen it.

[2432] And it recently came up as someone's favorite movie.

[2433] It was random to me. and I hadn't thought about that movie.

[2434] Yeah, I can't even really remember.

[2435] I just know it's Guillermo del Toro, but I don't care.

[2436] It's in my top ten probably.

[2437] Is it?

[2438] Okay.

[2439] Grace of my heart.

[2440] Scorpion.

[2441] Never heard of grace of me. Neither.

[2442] But it's one of the best commentaries.

[2443] Okay.

[2444] Oh, it's a musical.

[2445] Out of sight.

[2446] Soderberg.

[2447] I've probably watched that commentary.

[2448] That would be great.

[2449] Kino Lorber Studio Classes.

[2450] Not to be missed.

[2451] It says, asking a commentary enthusiast to choose their favorite Steven Soderberg disc is a little like asking a parent to choose their favorite child.

[2452] But it's hard to do better than this articulate and witty track shared with screenwriter Scott Frank on the movie that moves Soderberg from the margins to the center of film culture.

[2453] I would want to listen to that.

[2454] I watched that movie 30 times.

[2455] I'm ready to watch it with the commentary on.

[2456] Yeah.

[2457] It'd be fun to listen to because what he was doing that no one had done in 20 plus years is he started using Zoom lenses again, which was done in TV to save time.

[2458] Yeah.

[2459] So there's all these shots like, you know, Clooney comes out of the bank at the beginning.

[2460] He's taking his tie off.

[2461] And then you snap Zoom.

[2462] It's very 70s TV.

[2463] Yeah.

[2464] But it works really well.

[2465] And no one had watched that in a long time.

[2466] And so it was like, oh, cool.

[2467] He brought this back.

[2468] and now he's made it chic.

[2469] He, okay, so the Ocean's 11 commentary, which is my second favorite to Goodwell Hunting.

[2470] There were two commentaries on that.

[2471] Oh, really?

[2472] Probably Criterion.

[2473] And the one is Matt, Brad.

[2474] Oh, wow.

[2475] Spray, spray, spray.

[2476] And George, like, it's crazy.

[2477] Yeah.

[2478] And then there's another that's, I think, Soderberg.

[2479] Doing a more academic?

[2480] Yeah, maybe Jerry Weintraub.

[2481] Oh, that would make sense.

[2482] This shot was beautiful, babe.

[2483] That's a great documentary, by the way.

[2484] What is it?

[2485] The Jerry Weintraub documentary.

[2486] Yeah, fascinating.

[2487] Ding, ding, ding.

[2488] At Cragg's, there's a Jerry Weintraub dish.

[2489] Sure.

[2490] There's also one at...

[2491] Mousson Franks.

[2492] No, close.

[2493] Nate and I've been going to.

[2494] Yeah, what you know.

[2495] it called?

[2496] Dan Tannas.

[2497] He has dishes all over the city.

[2498] Yeah, he's an icon.

[2499] He was an icon.

[2500] He is an icon.

[2501] He is an icon.

[2502] But he's passed.

[2503] Well, it was weird on the menu because there was this Jerry Weintraub Scallop or whatever.

[2504] Then there's only one other item on the menu that's off of a person.

[2505] And it's on the dessert menu.

[2506] And I think it's a current.

[2507] TikTok influencer.

[2508] And it was quite the gambit.

[2509] Of items?

[2510] No, to have like Jerry Weintraff and this TikTok influence.

[2511] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2512] What a world.

[2513] Okay, love and basketball, Criterion.

[2514] Love and Basketball shout out is Allison Kirksey, Lombardo's favorite movie of all time.

[2515] Allison of Anthony Allison.

[2516] Seven, new line.

[2517] Oh, I'm trying to think of I've watched that.

[2518] I had to have watched that one.

[2519] I'd be surprised if I hadn't watched that, but I don't remember anything.

[2520] Another movie I've watched 30 plus times and have the DVD still.

[2521] Wow.

[2522] I could give that a shot.

[2523] No, we have to watch this because this disc contains four commentary tracks for the price of one.

[2524] And each of them is expertly assembled and illuminating.

[2525] The commentators dissect the film from a variety of perspectives.

[2526] Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman.

[2527] Oh, wow.

[2528] Oh, my God.

[2529] Delicious.

[2530] then screenwriter, Andrew Kevin Walker, and others.

[2531] Fincher, Fincher's on all four.

[2532] We loved it.

[2533] Like, let's watch it again.

[2534] Cue it up.

[2535] Bring in more people.

[2536] I'd watch that movie on repeat.

[2537] Criterion has an app now, which you can watch all of these.

[2538] Oh.

[2539] There's like a Netflix for Criterion, and they've got the commentary on it.

[2540] Well, get ready for the next one.

[2541] Smoking the Bandit.

[2542] No. No, but Fally Girl.

[2543] No way, that made the list?

[2544] Yes, and it's Shout Factory.

[2545] Oh, it's the distributor.

[2546] Okay.

[2547] Okay, JFK Warner, Oliver Stone.

[2548] Menace to Society.

[2549] Ooh, yeah, that would be fun.

[2550] Hughes Brothers.

[2551] True romance.

[2552] Oh, right, right, right.

[2553] Yeah, this is limited to dish.

[2554] Tarantino doesn't contribute audio commentaries to the movies he directs, but he recorded one for true romance.

[2555] Oh, he did?

[2556] Okay, high and low.

[2557] This is Kurosawa.

[2558] Oh, the famous Japanese director?

[2559] Yeah.

[2560] Bram Stoker's Dracula?

[2561] Oh, is that Scorset?

[2562] Oh, Coppola.

[2563] Sony.

[2564] Interesting The piano Not the pianist Right The piano is beautiful That's Harvey Keitel And Hunt Helen Hunt I mean Holly Hunter Holly Hunter Jane Campion She's a huge She just directed The Power of the Dog Yes Yes she just directed that And Callie worked on that Campaign And she got to know Jane She enjoyed her Yeah, she did.

[2565] He said, she said, Paramount.

[2566] How long is this list?

[2567] I guess it's long.

[2568] Harlan County, USA, Hostel Part 2, the lone gunman, the yards, the verdict, targets.

[2569] Oh, that's Peter Bagdanovich.

[2570] That's it.

[2571] That's it.

[2572] Yeah.

[2573] Cool.

[2574] Well, now we know what to watch.

[2575] A long list ahead of us.

[2576] Crime in New York.

[2577] Crime rate.

[2578] The overall index crime declined by 5 .6 % in September 2023 compared to the same period a year ago.

[2579] Individual crime increases were driven mainly by Grand Larsonia auto, which rose by 19 .5%.

[2580] We were just talking about the subway and crime.

[2581] Yes.

[2582] Yeah, so everyone's doing great.

[2583] Everything's trending up.

[2584] Wait, hold on.

[2585] I mean, this feels like a kind of not good list, but I am going to do it.

[2586] Okay.

[2587] The most dangerous cities in the U .S. Oh, great.

[2588] But you should still go there.

[2589] Yes.

[2590] Don't let this get you, you know.

[2591] Number one is Bessemer, Alabama.

[2592] Wouldn't I guessed it?

[2593] You're not going to guess a lot of these.

[2594] Well, you might.

[2595] Bessamer Alabama.

[2596] The chance of being a victim is one in 30.

[2597] That's how it feels high.

[2598] You know 29 people.

[2599] Yeah.

[2600] Number two, Monroe, Louisiana.

[2601] Okay.

[2602] Three, Saginaw.

[2603] Michigan.

[2604] Yes.

[2605] Saginaw Bay.

[2606] Four, Memphis, Tennessee.

[2607] I've heard that.

[2608] Ooh.

[2609] I lived there.

[2610] Yeah.

[2611] You learned to ride a bike in a garage there.

[2612] Yep.

[2613] Five is Detroit.

[2614] Sure.

[2615] I'd be pissed if it wasn't on the list.

[2616] Two, Michigan.

[2617] You're going to be upset, Rob.

[2618] It's not in the top 10.

[2619] Come back, Rob, when you got some real shit.

[2620] Six is Birmingham, Alabama.

[2621] Okay, so far we have two Bama roll tides and two Michigan's.

[2622] Seven is Pine Bluff, Arkansas.

[2623] Eight is Little Rock, Arkansas.

[2624] Well, gangbanging a Little Rock, the very famous HBO Doc.

[2625] We've known about this for years.

[2626] Nine, Alexandria, Louisiana.

[2627] We got a couple repeats on here.

[2628] And then 10 is Cleveland.

[2629] Sure.

[2630] Ohio.

[2631] I mean, it would not take a professor to see the correlation between opportunity.

[2632] Oh, my God.

[2633] Yeah.

[2634] And crime.

[2635] Yeah.

[2636] There's no Silicon Valley on that list.

[2637] I mean, crimes of the heart.

[2638] Sure.

[2639] Those abound.

[2640] Yeah.

[2641] Okay, that's it for that.

[2642] That was a last -minute fact.

[2643] Yeah, it was fun.

[2644] That's all for wisdom.

[2645] I love top 10 lists of stuff.

[2646] cities, almost anything.

[2647] Yeah, me too.

[2648] Yeah.

[2649] I find it very interesting.

[2650] I don't love it when half the cities I'm learning the name for the first time, but I also like it.

[2651] Or it could be glass -half -full, you get to learn about a new city.

[2652] Well, that is part of it.

[2653] Remember when we just had somebody on yesterday who's said something about a town in Wisconsin, and it sounded made up?

[2654] It did, it did.

[2655] It was like Beloit.

[2656] I think it was.

[2657] Beloit, yeah.

[2658] And he had several stories that took place in Bloy.

[2659] Yeah.

[2660] It's like a really instrumental city in his life.

[2661] All righty.

[2662] Well, that, that's all.

[2663] That's all she wrote.

[2664] That's all she wrote for Willem.

[2665] And that's very literal to say that's all she wrote.

[2666] Yeah.

[2667] That's all you wrote.

[2668] Let's keep saying that.

[2669] Murder she wrote.

[2670] It's all she wrote.

[2671] I wonder if I'll ever write a murder.

[2672] A murder mystery?

[2673] Yeah.

[2674] I'm going to guess not.

[2675] Me too.

[2676] Yeah.

[2677] I love them, though.

[2678] Like, I love.

[2679] In movie, not in book form, do you?

[2680] You're like a murder mystery?

[2681] In a book form?

[2682] Well, sort of like I loved Gone Girl.

[2683] Okay.

[2684] The book.

[2685] That makes sense.

[2686] Loved.

[2687] That was a phenomenal.

[2688] And then, but what's that?

[2689] Knives Out.

[2690] I love Knives Out.

[2691] The movie.

[2692] Yes.

[2693] That's kitsy.

[2694] That's noir.

[2695] But it's also murder.

[2696] It is.

[2697] You're going to get a murder in those.

[2698] What other murder mysteries are there that I should watch?

[2699] Seven.

[2700] Love it.

[2701] Already seen it.

[2702] Going to watch the commentary.

[2703] Off to watch the commentary.

[2704] Yeah.

[2705] What else?

[2706] I love Sherlock, the show, a lot.

[2707] Should I watch that?

[2708] I loved it.

[2709] Really?

[2710] I loved it.

[2711] Some people don't, which I don't understand them.

[2712] I'm on to start the bad surgeon doc, which I hear is incredible.

[2713] Oh, I keep seeing it pop up, but I don't know.

[2714] It's number one on Netflix.

[2715] Yeah.

[2716] Yeah, and Lance told me it's great.

[2717] He's like clear your schedule.

[2718] You're going to start it and not be able to get up.

[2719] I love that as a precursor.

[2720] Me too.

[2721] Nothing's the same now that couples therapies are.

[2722] I'm just living kind of despair.

[2723] I know, same.

[2724] I miss Orna so much.

[2725] I'm going to re -watch it.

[2726] Me too.

[2727] Maybe I'll watch it with the commentary.

[2728] Oh, my God.

[2729] If Orna did Criterion commentary, I would die.

[2730] All righty.

[2731] I love you.

[2732] Love you.