Martin Short

[0] I'm Martin Short And I feel ashamed About being Conan O 'Brien's friend Did you say O 'Brien?

[1] No, no, no, why I'm keeping that one?

[2] We've known each other for a long time And you said O 'Brien Well, how do you pronounce it then?

[3] Oh, for God's sake.

[4] No, really, I want to hear you say.

[5] It's Conan O 'Brien.

[6] Roll that R. There's an R in there?

[7] Oh, for God's sake.

[8] hear the yell Back to school Ring the bell Brand new shoes Walking loose Climb the fence Books and pens I can tell that we are going to be friends Can tell that we are going to be friends Hey there Time for another episode of Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend I'm having a blast Doing this podcast I really enjoy it And I have my trusty sidekicks here My assistant Sona How are you, Sona?

[9] I'm good.

[10] I'm having a blast, too.

[11] You're enjoying yourself, aren't you?

[12] I am.

[13] I'm having a fun time.

[14] Are we paying you to do this?

[15] You are.

[16] Okay.

[17] Is it a lot?

[18] Not really.

[19] No. It could be more.

[20] Well, it's probably just fine.

[21] And also our producer, Matt Goreley.

[22] Am I saying that correctly?

[23] Is it goarly?

[24] Yeah.

[25] It's always been correct.

[26] I know.

[27] This is like the third time you've asked me. I know.

[28] I like to make it clear that we're not that familiar with each other.

[29] Do you know what I mean?

[30] This is my way of subtly indicating that we'll never get closer.

[31] In eight years, I'll be saying, so it's goarly, right?

[32] And I'll say, yes, it is Conranobrida.

[33] Yeah, but no one will buy that.

[34] Is it Mozart?

[35] No, it's Mozart.

[36] Everyone knows that.

[37] I think I've achieved a certain level of clearly delusion.

[38] You ready to go?

[39] Gory, you look like you're getting angry now.

[40] Whenever you get angry, your beard turns different shades.

[41] You know, this is the last time you're going to see this beard.

[42] You don't have this beard to push around.

[43] It's summertime I'm shaving.

[44] Is that true?

[45] Are you really going to shave it off?

[46] I am going to shave it.

[47] I don't normally have a beard.

[48] I just had a beard for a while.

[49] I don't even remember.

[50] And it became a goddamn character on this show.

[51] I don't look at your face that much.

[52] So I honestly don't know if you have a beard or not.

[53] You want to unionize for season two and we can like, you know.

[54] I will crush this union.

[55] Get more money.

[56] You'll stop being pushed around.

[57] I'll bring in strong arm thugs from 1920s, 1920s to Detroit to hit you with steel pipes and some concrete.

[58] Yeah, good luck.

[59] They've tried to throw me out of show business 17 times, but I always come back in a smaller format.

[60] That's funny because it's true.

[61] I am thrilled because I've said it once, and I'll say it again, if there is a funnier human being than our guest today, I've not met that person, and I think I've met everybody.

[62] This is someone who, at least one, every award you can win.

[63] I'm not going to go through that, because God knows he's got it all.

[64] I first saw him on a show called SCTV, which remains to this day probably the most influential show, or one of the maybe two or three most influential shows on my sense of humor.

[65] And he went on to start out live, and he's a mega comedy phenomenon.

[66] And I love him to death, and I'm lucky that he really is a friend of mine.

[67] And his name is Martin.

[68] Short, Marty, thanks for being here.

[69] Hey, here's what I want to ask.

[70] You know, I just did your show?

[71] Yes.

[72] When did you start doing shows in L .A.?

[73] For God's sake, Marty.

[74] What?

[75] I've been out here ten years.

[76] Ten years.

[77] Well, to quote your old character from laughing, very interesting.

[78] You're a fool.

[79] Thank you.

[80] I've gone on record many times saying that I say this to Marty, and most people would say, oh, please, you're embarrassingly.

[81] Marty asked me to repeat it into some sort of device.

[82] Engrave it.

[83] He's a funniest person alive, Martin Short.

[84] Oh, this is just silliness.

[85] Okay.

[86] You're in the top 12.

[87] You're up there with Howie Mendel.

[88] Look, you know.

[89] What was that?

[90] That was my Howie Mendele.

[91] Well, it's the old, his whole, is the old act, you know, with the glove.

[92] Okay, what do you mean?

[93] He would inflate.

[94] By the way, it's not anything like Howie.

[95] No. I did a character called Howie Seuzlov, who also had a big glove on SETV.

[96] You'd be on the modeling show.

[97] And that was the, who I'm doing.

[98] You have a mind filled with show business references that spans going back to, What's the oldest reference you make, do you think?

[99] Do you ever do Jolson?

[100] Do you ever talk about people from the 20s or 30s?

[101] What's your wheelhouse?

[102] Is your wheelhouse the 60s, Sinatra?

[103] What is it?

[104] I would say that my, I wish that I had been 30 in 1962.

[105] That would have been a fabulous era.

[106] Because why?

[107] Everyone's smoking marble cigarettes with no shame.

[108] They're drinking booze very late.

[109] not to mention the ladies oh the ladies I do think of you sometimes as being a guy who could have time traveled and gone back to your skill set is so sharp but it's also no no no it's sharp but it's also there's comics out there that do attitude comedy you have material you have characters I think that you could get in a time machine and go back in and open at the Copacabana in 1948, and you would kill.

[110] I think you would kill in 1940.

[111] I would like to think I would.

[112] Yeah.

[113] Because I think that people, it's amazing when you hear certain old stuff, old radio shows, there's not that many jokes, there's not that many things.

[114] It's a kinder audience.

[115] The more the audience expanded, it was really survival of the fittest.

[116] So, I remember even Dave Letterman saying to me 20 years ago that he said, you know, when a guest is just telling a story I can hear click to another station in his brain, you know.

[117] And that's, if you see an old Johnny Carson show from 1968, it's much more meandering.

[118] Well, you know, he used to do a lot more time.

[119] He used to do, I think he had a 90 minutes, 90 minute show.

[120] And they, I think there was a different, show business was a little club then.

[121] Show business was a relatively small club.

[122] Very few people were in show business.

[123] and it was a small club and they all knew each other and they hung out at the Friars Club and they saw each other at parties.

[124] Absolutely, it was a smaller club.

[125] It's so true.

[126] And what we have now, Seale, is, and it's the only show business I've ever known, is, and it's expanding all the time, but there's hundreds of thousands of television shows and there's movies in the movie theater but there's also things streaming and there's not one cohesive unit.

[127] And you look back at the late 50s, 60s, even into the 70s, there was this kind of small group of people that all knew each other.

[128] And, you know, Dean Martin would be, if there was a party, I've heard, whenever I hear about a party that took place in the 60s.

[129] But you'd always hear stories of Lee Gershwin's house, where Burton would get up and recite and Judy Garland would sing.

[130] And it was like, you know.

[131] Yeah, and they're all putting on a show.

[132] And, uh, Milton Burrell's there.

[133] They're always describing a party.

[134] Exactly, my hero.

[135] We have certain similarities.

[136] Let's leave it at that.

[137] Oh, boy.

[138] Oh, come on, you know what I'm saying.

[139] Just enough to win.

[140] Exactly.

[141] You're a joke.

[142] Giant cock, if you don't understand.

[143] Yaha.

[144] Sorry, I got to spell that out.

[145] It was wrong.

[146] I apologize to everyone here.

[147] I'm sorry, fellas.

[148] Yeah.

[149] Did you hear that.

[150] Yeah.

[151] Put it away, Conan.

[152] You've got the laugh.

[153] Jesus.

[154] Wow, that.

[155] Reminds that one seen an alien.

[156] But you know what I mean?

[157] I always picture, and it's kind of a nice thing.

[158] This, it's hard not to.

[159] I get very excited.

[160] I get very excited when I get to have a meal with, say, you and with Steve Martin.

[161] And it feels like, oh, these are people my generation, think of you guys as being legitimate and the rest of us are schlubs that are hanging around you.

[162] That's kind of how it can feel sometimes.

[163] Don't you think that never goes away?

[164] I mean, I always felt that, you know, I knew Mike Nichols for 25 years, and I always, if I was at a dinner or at any point in his company, would pinch myself and think, okay, I cannot really be with Mike Nichols.

[165] Because when I was 12, I would listen to Nichols and May on Broadway and memorize the whole thing.

[166] While other people were listening to Cosby and listening to stand -ups, I was obsessed with that kind of give -and -take and the characters Elaine was playing.

[167] So I never got over.

[168] I never got over knowing him.

[169] Right.

[170] You, I think the biggest one when you talk about meeting Sinatra.

[171] That was big.

[172] Would he be the biggest star maybe of all?

[173] that you met?

[174] Yeah.

[175] Because he's such a...

[176] Well, it's so insane because even when you talk about the Beatles, there were four people.

[177] I mean, Snotra was one guy that lasted, you know, 50 years.

[178] And was the king of show business.

[179] Was the king of show business.

[180] But it was a great influence for me as someone who wanted to sing as a kid.

[181] I would literally listen to Tony Bennett 25 times one song to figure out how he placed I will come.

[182] You know, there's a different place in his...

[183] Johnny Mathis is doing that thing.

[184] But, you know, so you learn, oh, phrasing.

[185] I remember Harry Connick and I, when I first met him a long time ago, he was like 19.

[186] And he's obsessed with Snatra and so am I. And we talked about April and Paris, a song, I never knew how...

[187] And he can do it exactly, but we learned the phrasing.

[188] He knew how Sinatra held this long note, an old man river.

[189] We could compare that because we were both, even though decades apart, 14 -year -olds in our bedrooms listening and saying, oh, that's how you say.

[190] So when you finally meet that person, it's freaking.

[191] Let's talk about that because I find it fascinating that at a very young age, you thought singing was your way into show business.

[192] You are generally recognized as one of the great powerhouses of comedy of all times.

[193] but you thought it was singing.

[194] You thought singing was the way you were going to make it?

[195] Do you know, I grew up in a very funny family, and I was the youngest of five kids.

[196] So comedy was a very natural thing.

[197] It wasn't, you didn't like have a bunch of, you know, bookworms, and then you're jumping out and saying, get me to a stage somewhere.

[198] Right.

[199] It seemed that to me, I thought, I wanted to be an old entertainer.

[200] Oh, sure, I'd do a funny dance.

[201] but mainly I'd kill with the final ballot.

[202] And this is what I aspired to.

[203] And it was also intense fantasy because I was in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.

[204] I'd never been in the United States.

[205] I'd look at commercials for Disneyland and think, well, that could be on Neptune.

[206] I'll never go there.

[207] Right.

[208] So it didn't seem realistic.

[209] So in my attic bedroom where I pretend to have an imaginary television show every other Tuesday at 8 p .m. on NBC because they wanted it every week, but you know what?

[210] Try making movies and doing a variety show every week.

[211] When you're 14 and you also have school.

[212] You're over -scheduled in your head.

[213] Yeah.

[214] And I'm not even counting touring.

[215] Your imaginary life was over -scheduled.

[216] I would get so mad at my imaginary agent.

[217] I'm only one person.

[218] I can't be spread out like a piece of pizza and divide into pieces.

[219] So you're up there and you thought, okay, and you're practicing the singing and you're doing it.

[220] And at what point did you realize it's not the singing?

[221] The singing can be part of what I do, but it's comedy.

[222] I sincerely think it was later on.

[223] I mean, I got, when I would do stage shows at McMaster University, they were all musicals, so I like the music part.

[224] And then my first job was this year production of Godspell in Toronto.

[225] The famous production, yeah.

[226] Famous production because of the people was Gilda Radner, Andrea Martin, Eugene Levy, Paul Schaefer, Victor Garber was Jesus.

[227] And still is in many ways.

[228] Still very, very close to Christ.

[229] Christ Light, we call him.

[230] And, you know, he married my son all.

[231] My son Oliver and my daughter and Alyssa were married at my cottage by Victor.

[232] That's beautiful.

[233] And my son's theory was that if you can't get Christ, you phone Vic Garber.

[234] But anyway, in that show, that was now, I was my first job where I wasn't in university.

[235] And it was a comedy show.

[236] It was singing, but the star was comedy.

[237] What got me the job was me improvising with Eugene on stage at the callbacks.

[238] it's amazing that there's this one show and again this is how um i now think just to more to your point that comedy and entertainment is spread out everywhere now youtube and that's i don't say good bad that's just the way it is now but there was a time when there were far fewer opportunities for talented people to show what they could do so they could have a production of godspell and do a casting call and everyone who shows up becomes a household name that's insane that wouldn't happen today that show was a little bit insane there were you know there was the original New York production of Godspell there were other companies of course but the fact that everyone was in there that was odd I mean at that time in Toronto in 1972 Danny Aykroyd was always hanging around And he always smelled a little bit of gas because he's always working his car because he wasn't working.

[239] I mean, it was suddenly, and I first met Danny at Gilda's birthday party in 1972, and he and his then partner, Valerie Bromfield, comedic partner, were in character as Gilder's parents from Detroit at this party.

[240] They were pretending to be Gilda Radder's parents.

[241] They stayed in character, the whole, Danny was doing that.

[242] And it was so funny.

[243] I remember driving, you know, when I would gilded, and I remember driving her car around, and they would be improvising in the back, Valerie and Danny, and I think I'm deliberately getting lost because I don't want this to end.

[244] That's how funny they both were.

[245] It's interesting because Tom Hanks once said that if he could, if he could go back in time and be a fly on the wall, he started the sentence that way.

[246] And I thought he was going to say, you know, he wants to be.

[247] there, you know, watching what I...

[248] Princess Margaret, get married to Lord Snowden.

[249] Well, that's your thing.

[250] That's my thing.

[251] You know, I always get confused, and it's always been a problem with me, between your wants and Tom's wants.

[252] Yeah, yeah.

[253] If I could just be there and say, no, no, it's not a good marriage.

[254] You'd be there right there and just see Liza say to David Guest.

[255] Yes.

[256] But, you know, I didn't know, and I know Tom Hanks is a big history buff, and so obviously, I thought that he was going to lay out some just great historic moment.

[257] And his moment is he wanted to be a fly on the wall, invisible, listening to you guys up in Canada, who created, you know, what came to be known as SCTV and the early people at Sternet life.

[258] All of you gathered around a cassette messing about, improvising, being silly.

[259] He said, I wish I could be there.

[260] I wish I could be there at that moment and I understand what he's talking about but of course you did it and at the time you were just these are my friends this is my girlfriend Gilda Radner that's that guy Dan Aykroyd I have tapes from you know two in the morning on a Friday after a production of Godspell and it's you know Gilden Eugene and Paul at one point Paul is laughing ah that is so funny And it's, you go, that's the exact same laugh.

[261] Right, that permeated the Laramins show for 30 years.

[262] And even then, in those days, way back then, even then, he looked like a Maydardee in a spaceship.

[263] So there's been very little change in Paul.

[264] You know, we have some similarities.

[265] We both, I am of Irish descent, but.

[266] We didn't get far from the tree.

[267] I am very imbred.

[268] I am one of six.

[269] You are one of how many?

[270] Five.

[271] You're one of five.

[272] And your dad.

[273] You've talked to me about your dad and your dad very funny character.

[274] And he was born in Ireland.

[275] Born and raised in Cross McGlynn, Countie or ma.

[276] And he has slight brogue.

[277] Marty, get down here.

[278] And, but really funny.

[279] Really, really sarcastically funny.

[280] And when I would do Jiminy Glick, initially, I would go, oh, yeah, that's who I'm doing.

[281] Oh, you're kind of channeling your dad.

[282] I mean, I'm not, you know, you didn't sound like to go down like that.

[283] But the sarcasm is the Irish said, oh, the crack was good.

[284] Oh, the crack was good, the gossip.

[285] Oh, you had a good crack.

[286] One time I was stayed up with my cousins in shorts bar, which has been there in Cross McLean since 1980, 1880.

[287] To this day, it's still open.

[288] They're still there, shorts.

[289] Absolutely correct.

[290] And I had stayed up, this is like late 90s with my two cousins, Patrick and Oliver.

[291] They're all the same names.

[292] My son, Oliver, you know.

[293] Anyway, we're up there until about five in the morning drinking.

[294] You start off the beer and then you go to whiskey.

[295] Because if you're publicans, which are the children, you have to take out of your wallet and put money into the cash.

[296] You can't just drink from the bar.

[297] I came down around 9 in the morning Patty's cleaning out the glass my uncle Patty and he just looks and he said So how did the character assassination go last night?

[298] It was like he was eavesdropping And and but my I remember one time I said to Mel Brooks at Jim and Nick like, what's your big beef for the Nazis?

[299] And I swear it was like a joke that my father had once done to his friend Sam Paken, you know it was just taking that energy and re -channeling.

[300] There is something in Ireland.

[301] I did some event with a bunch of Irish comedians maybe 12 years ago.

[302] And we all performed at the American Ambassador's House in Phoenix Park in Dublin.

[303] And then it's over.

[304] And someone said, well, the evening's over, but let's go get a drink.

[305] Let's go into Dublin and get a drink.

[306] So Darrow Breen, a bunch of other comedians, we all pile into a cab.

[307] and these are the funniest people in Ireland, hilarious, talented.

[308] We all pile into one cab, and on the ride over, the cab driver is funnier than any of us.

[309] And it's a true story.

[310] It's just, I don't know what it is, but it's funny because you, one of the things that delights me the most is when people I meet who are very, very funny and entertaining on screen, I meet them, and they turn out to be that way in real life.

[311] And I have all of these exchanges with you where no one's around, since I've gotten to know you, no one's listening.

[312] This is a long time.

[313] Yeah, we've known each other a long time, but I'll be, I'll see you, we'll meet outside the restaurant, about to go in, and you'll have the greatest put down.

[314] And I'll think, this is great, there's not even a camera.

[315] The other day, you and I were going to grab a bite to eat, and Mr. Bill Hader was going to join us.

[316] And you proposed a restaurant, and I said, should I make the, I just sent you an email and said, should I make the reservation?

[317] And you said, no, I'll do it.

[318] I'd like to get a table.

[319] I'm like, this isn't for anybody.

[320] This isn't for the, and I thought, I was howling, and I thought, this is you literally doing something.

[321] with another hand.

[322] And with your free hand...

[323] Don't go to detail.

[324] Yeah, exactly.

[325] And with your free hand, you are destroying, you're just sending a torpedo, a death torpedo through the water.

[326] And it's really delightful.

[327] Only coated in love, you know that.

[328] You, you...

[329] I want you to do it, but...

[330] You said to me once on the air, and I didn't know this was coming, but you said, you looked at me, I was interviewing you, and you stopped me. And you said, Conan...

[331] whatever you're doing with plastic surgery.

[332] Do you remember this?

[333] Should I do it for you?

[334] You said, you've done so many of these.

[335] But you looked at me and you just went, Conan, I just want to say, doesn't Conan look fantastic?

[336] And the audience went, yeah, yeah, Conan looks fantastic.

[337] And you went, I just want to say, whatever you're doing with plastic surgery, I suggest 20 % more and then stop.

[338] And what I loved is that I spent weeks thinking about that afterwards.

[339] I spent weeks thinking about it afterwards.

[340] I was like, it is so fantastic because it's disguised as paternal advice.

[341] It's a compliment.

[342] It's paternal advice, and there's a death turd tucked into the middle of it, which will kill you.

[343] Right.

[344] I love that.

[345] That's why, Steve and I insult him, I often say, and I in no way mean this negatively.

[346] But you look, you are pale, Steve.

[347] You look like something I snorted in the 80s.

[348] You know, what's funny is there's, this is this is something that I really relate to.

[349] When I see you perform, I've seen you do perform on Broadway, and I've seen your traveling show that you do with Steve Martin that you tour with.

[350] You, and I understand it because I think it is Irish, I believe, but it's a resistance to Schmaltz.

[351] It's a resistance to sentimentality.

[352] Is that Irish?

[353] It certainly is true what you're saying.

[354] In the comedy.

[355] In the comedy, you do the comedy.

[356] And I think you're right.

[357] I think it's very Irish.

[358] I've never thought of it that way.

[359] Yeah.

[360] But it is very, it's very, is it, I used to think it was was waspy, but I think it's more Irish.

[361] I think it is.

[362] I think that there's never a point in your show with Steve.

[363] And I can think of a lot of performance.

[364] It would be easy to do, and people would love it, where at one point at the end of the show, when people have laughed their asses off for an hour and, you know, 30 minutes or 40 minutes, that you guys look at each other and say, you know, I have to say, though, you are a really good friend.

[365] Something horrible like that.

[366] Something truly horrible.

[367] You are a good friend, and I love you.

[368] I love you, too, man. See, that's when you're waiting for the sandbag to drop and crush them both.

[369] But, but see, that's what I love.

[370] love is that none of that.

[371] There's none of that.

[372] There's, there's, and I, I know that in show business, I used to do this, you used to do this a lot on SCTV, and I think it's been, you, you refuse, you refuse to go down that road.

[373] And, and Steve refuses to go down that road.

[374] And a lot of my favorite comedians, they're not going down that road, that we are here, and we might even fool you into thinking, we're about to say something really generous.

[375] and sweet, and then there's a joke at the end?

[376] Well, first of all, I think that the audience knows everything.

[377] They know who's friendly and who isn't.

[378] They know that, you know, Steve will say to me, you know what I love about touring with Marty Short?

[379] No paparazzi.

[380] Now, they know that that's a joke.

[381] But have you ever had this happen?

[382] Audiences have changed somewhat, And I'll occasionally get an audience that they're very sincere and earnest.

[383] And so someone will make a joke.

[384] Andy will make a joke at my expense that I love, that I think is hilarious.

[385] And the audience would be like, no. Didn't we have that?

[386] We had a joke.

[387] We just did the show to them.

[388] Oh, I think, yeah.

[389] I think at one point you said.

[390] And you even commented on, wait a thing.

[391] You really think that, but I can't remember.

[392] I can't remember what it was either, but you made some joke that was absolutely ridiculous.

[393] Oh, I mispronounced a word and you said, Conan, and I think it's time to get new dentures.

[394] That's right.

[395] The audience, this is what insulted me. The audience went, oh, oh, like too far, Marty.

[396] You know he has false teeth, but don't bring it up.

[397] Yeah, they literally gave the reaction of, oh, too far, leave his dentures alone.

[398] And I had to turn to them and go, I do not have dentures.

[399] It's a joke.

[400] But their reaction in a group was surprising, just hearing a whole audience go, really we knew something was wrong we knew he was aging badly but we didn't know yeah which way it was going to go but uh i was very impressed with the show you do with steve i got you you let me come out and do it in las vegas i did a little uh little little cameo appearance uh but watched watched you out there and you're terrific with Steve.

[401] I've said this to you.

[402] You guys, I mean, he's obviously a brilliantly funny man, but you, I see the ways in which you also help him out.

[403] You're such a crowd pleaser, you know, that you...

[404] Well, I think we both help each other out.

[405] I think it's a great little combination of energy.

[406] I think he's weighing you down.

[407] What?

[408] I think he's weighing you down.

[409] He's hurting you.

[410] Look, this is, no one listens to this.

[411] No one.

[412] No one hears this.

[413] Okay.

[414] I so wanted to do with Dana Carvey.

[415] because Dana gets me. So, okay, so I go through Mark Gervyn, so I reach your age.

[416] So I can't get Dana on the phone.

[417] And then Steve, and next, you know, but it's fine.

[418] Is there anyone, who did you miss?

[419] Marlon Brando.

[420] You didn't get to ever meet Marlon Brando.

[421] I never met Marlon Brando, and I would have loved.

[422] I loved Marlon Brand.

[423] Have you heard tales of Marlon Brando?

[424] Oh, yeah.

[425] And some of them, you don't.

[426] He was wearing a full ball gown during that meeting.

[427] You don't want to hear those stories.

[428] But just the genius of Brando, the or, I mean, that's someone, like, again, you're that 13 -year -old kid and you're watching on their waterfront and then you get to meet, you know, Johnny Carson.

[429] I didn't do Johnny Carson for six years.

[430] when I could have.

[431] Like, I was asked to do Johnny Carson in 1982 when I was in TV.

[432] You didn't jump at that?

[433] No. And because I had already started doing Letterman.

[434] It was 83.

[435] I'd already done Letterman a few times.

[436] And I thought, ah, you know what?

[437] It's old school, and I'm hip and daze my guy.

[438] And it was only because I was totally afraid to do Johnny Carson because I loved him so much that I thought, because I really believe.

[439] that doing talk shows was about being loose and I couldn't imagine myself being loose in the company of Johnny Carson and so I waited and then there was a rumor in late 87 that he might be leaving and I went I am an idiot I'm a moron so I was then asked and then I phoned up my managers at the time and said can you get me in the Tonight Show and they said of course and now I did it January of 88 the first time so you remember going out you did panel sat down?

[440] I didn't, you know, I never did stand up.

[441] I did, I was, but I was already like in the movies.

[442] So they phoned me up and said, you're supposed to, oh, I know what it was.

[443] Betty Davis is on tomorrow night, but she has been asked to move.

[444] But if she's on the same night, you are, you will come out second.

[445] Would you rather move to her night?

[446] And I said, no, I'm happy and thrilled to come out following Betty Davis.

[447] So I came out.

[448] And Rob Reiner had made a bet with me. He said, I'll give you $100 if you do Betty Davis to Betty Davis.

[449] Oh, my God, okay.

[450] So Betty was already, she killed.

[451] You know, she'd done the plate trick and done all that stuff.

[452] She shot flames out of her nose.

[453] Absolutely.

[454] And, no, she was really on fire.

[455] Yeah.

[456] If you call that on fire.

[457] And she did three segments.

[458] And then I came out and I said to her, and what a pleasure to meet you.

[459] And she said, thank you.

[460] Because she had no idea of who I was, and she thought that's actually the way I spoke.

[461] She didn't know.

[462] Did Johnny laugh?

[463] Did Johnny like that?

[464] Johnny was laughing, you know, he was doing that.

[465] You go for it right away, did you?

[466] And then, and then I must admit, a successful eight minutes.

[467] It was like, and I could see Johnny and pushing the chair back doing that stuff that you would do.

[468] And then at the, but you'd just see the two shot of Johnny, but you'd see smoke puffing in from the side because Betty was smoking to the end, you know.

[469] And then at one point you hear her voice saying, do you do me?

[470] And I turned and said, well, you're not that easy to do.

[471] And she said, well, then skip it.

[472] And Johnny was beat red laughing so hard.

[473] I mean, like holding it in.

[474] This is, um, You think about this now, too, think about, well, we've got Betty Davis, but we also need to get Martin short.

[475] That alone tells you everything you need to know about how show business has changed.

[476] What do you mean?

[477] The fact that an iconic star would come out and then you'll, okay, we'll talk to her, but then we've got to move on and have this comedy powerhouse on, I'm telling you that they've, the broth has been thinned since then.

[478] Does that make sense, you know, I mean, look, remember there was a time up until I don't know when that you never saw a movie star except at the Academy Awards.

[479] Right.

[480] They didn't do the Today Show.

[481] They wouldn't do the Tonight Show, you know, in Jack Parr era anyway.

[482] Right.

[483] They, you know, if you were Bert Lancaster, you showed up at the Oscars.

[484] If you read a hate, you know, all these major stars.

[485] So the aloofness of it was monumental.

[486] So obviously, if there's many, many talk shows, the well gets watered, and it's not as exciting as maybe when we were a certain age watching that one talk show, you know?

[487] I still think I'm stunned at a look at television and I'll see how much of it there is.

[488] and a lot of it's actually really good.

[489] I'm stunned at the amount of, there's a lot of quality out there, incredible amount of quality and craftsmanship.

[490] Oh, it's unbelievable.

[491] But there feel, but it does feel.

[492] And the impact of it, don't you think, is like the Game of Thrones, which I have never seen.

[493] And it's not because.

[494] You've never watched it.

[495] I've never, well, no, listen, I love dragons and all that stuff.

[496] Always did, but then I turn nine.

[497] And then I kind of, you know, moved on to novels and stories about, you know.

[498] Adults.

[499] Yeah.

[500] The depression and, you know.

[501] There's a lot of nudity in it.

[502] So you should know that.

[503] That's my crow.

[504] Your crow is very good.

[505] And then I also do a monkey.

[506] Can I hear the monkey?

[507] Maybe that's a macaw.

[508] I don't know what that.

[509] That's not a monkey.

[510] That's not a monkey.

[511] Canadian monkeys are little.

[512] Really?

[513] Ah, very different.

[514] Very different.

[515] The Canadian monkey.

[516] The Canadian monkey.

[517] Da, da, da, da.

[518] Is that it?

[519] Well, what does that sound a bit like?

[520] Isn't that like, ta -ta -ta -ta -da -da -da?

[521] Actually, that was like having a seizure.

[522] Yeah.

[523] You did have a seizure, actually.

[524] But I think my cricket is the best.

[525] Let's hear your cricket.

[526] You know what I wish?

[527] What?

[528] I wish you had been at a microphone when I was doing my monologue tonight.

[529] And I wish after each joke, hey, you know what I found interesting?

[530] I saw you do your monologue tonight.

[531] And I didn't realize, because I don't know a lot about post -production.

[532] But I saw, obviously, they put the laughs in later.

[533] I know deep down, you really love me. I know you do.

[534] A lot of warm feelings towards me. I do.

[535] If the audience had been, they were here right now.

[536] Oh, no. Too far, Marty.

[537] Well, I think I talked about this once on your show, but it is hilarious.

[538] if I would come out at any of the shows that you and I have done since 96 or something and I would insult you especially on the YouTube era and then you see it and then you go down in the comments and I don't know why Conan O 'Brien just didn't put him in his place he's so, I mean why are they being so mean to Conan I thought they were friends that's not nice to say to a friend you wonder how Don Rickles could have done his act at all why are you being mean Don Rickles was so funny.

[539] I was at a dinner party not long in the last few years of his life.

[540] And he was going on, he's telling all the stories.

[541] There were comedians there, so he was obviously playing to us.

[542] And his wife, Barbara, finally, went, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk.

[543] And he went, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, huh?

[544] Let's put it this way.

[545] If it wasn't for the talk, talk, talk, you'd be a derelict.

[546] I used to love when he would say, like, he had an instinct for what was just a funny word, and one of them was like, good for you, what do you want, a cookie?

[547] Yeah, I know.

[548] And cookie's a funny.

[549] Hockey puck, he loved that.

[550] Hockey puck was funny.

[551] What do you want a cookie?

[552] Yeah.

[553] Oh, good for you.

[554] You want to want a cookie?

[555] I had a talk show for a year in King World, and he came on at one point, and I go over and shake his hand, he whispers, and he said, this is a mercy mission.

[556] I got on a flight with my wife, Liza, and we were, I think we were taking a flight from New York.

[557] Manelli, I keep forgetting you.

[558] Yes, after, after David Guest.

[559] Yeah, yes.

[560] Do you know what David Guest said to Liza in their honeymoon night?

[561] No, I don't.

[562] No hard feelings.

[563] He said, no, wait a second, I'm missing a part of that joke.

[564] Never mind, move on me. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, that's a big mistake.

[565] No. That's keeping you out of the big money.

[566] We're going to play that on a loop.

[567] No, I was on a flight from New York or from Boston to, I think New York or Boston to Los Angeles, and I'm putting my stuff in the overhead compartment before the plane even takes off.

[568] And I hear, oh, geez, I'll let anybody on these flights.

[569] Damn Mick.

[570] A little Mick's probably been drinking at the bar.

[571] And I was, I didn't, I was getting a little pissed, like, who's being such an incredible dick?

[572] And I turn around and sitting in the seat behind us, sitting with someone else, not his wife, maybe a manager, was Don Rickles.

[573] And he proceeded to do a show for us on the whole flight out, cross -country five and a half hours.

[574] I was having dinner with Diane Keaton at Georgios in the Palisades.

[575] And Don Rickles was at the next table with the new hearts.

[576] And you just loved seeing those four together because they loved each other.

[577] And Diane had never met Don.

[578] And he came over the table and he said, good, Diane.

[579] So, so let me, how many kids have you adopted?

[580] I have a feeling that you go to an orphanage and say, I'll, I'll take that one, and I'll take that one, and I'll take that one.

[581] And she's laughing hysterically, and she's saying, I'm just so honored.

[582] Please shit on me some more.

[583] Yeah.

[584] You're here because you admire me. You've called me, what are you doing?

[585] Sonal, what's going on?

[586] Yeah.

[587] So that's not helping.

[588] Why are you laughing at that?

[589] Because it's so.

[590] preposterous.

[591] Do you know what I mean?

[592] It just doesn't make any sense.

[593] I think that's where the laugh comes from.

[594] Well, let's put this way.

[595] I'm doing the Michael Cohen podcast after this.

[596] So it's not like I'm Mr. Selecting.

[597] And he's doing it from prison.

[598] You and your topical quips.

[599] That's true.

[600] I won't have it.

[601] Not on this show.

[602] I won't have it.

[603] How do you end this show?

[604] other than just obviously petering out.

[605] I like this energy.

[606] This is, you know, it would work really nicely here.

[607] Why don't I get two pennies and just put them on your eyes?

[608] Do you realize that you have and I don't mean this negatively?

[609] No, hold on.

[610] I want to hear the cricket.

[611] I want it to end with the cricket.

[612] But you feel, and I mean this actually sincerely, Oh.

[613] That you now, at your present look, have your coffin look.

[614] In other words, you're going to be laid in the coffin.

[615] Yeah.

[616] It will be that hair.

[617] It will be the kind of swoop, the top.

[618] They will do it.

[619] They'll do it for me. Yeah.

[620] And you can look at different people and go, coffin look.

[621] So you think I'm there?

[622] I don't see you going like, side burns and slick back.

[623] I'm saying that I think you have your coffin look.

[624] Okay.

[625] That's the nicest thing you've said to me in a while.

[626] I think it is nice.

[627] I'll tell you who has his coffin look is Donald Trump.

[628] You think that's what he's going to look like in his coffin?

[629] Yeah, you can, I'll probably look like this in my coffin.

[630] No, we're going to have you made up as Ed Grimley.

[631] I can't believe I'm dead, I must say.

[632] Which character do you want to be laid out as when you go?

[633] Because I can, I will see to it.

[634] I think Glick, only because then you could do the thing, it would be a closed, because he'd been attacked by a cougar.

[635] So it could close it.

[636] But it would be funny to hire, like, well, not hire, they'd be your friends, I guess.

[637] But to have the premise that coffin is just impossibly, impossible to lift it.

[638] The heaviest thing.

[639] And finally, they're all at the front just dragging it.

[640] Is he your favorite of all the characters?

[641] Well, it's certainly the most fun because the others are, some of the others are very written and specifically phrased.

[642] Yeah, yeah.

[643] I know that.

[644] You don't think I, it's like, you have to memorize it.

[645] But Glick was all improvised.

[646] So I never knew what I would, I would look back, you know, we'd tape for 20 minutes and cut it to an eight -minute interview.

[647] And I'd see myself saying, I take great umbrage.

[648] And I go, I don't even know what that means.

[649] What is, I've never said that.

[650] So that was to me the most fun about that.

[651] Do you get, because you take chances with Click and I think you get away with it.

[652] Has there ever been a time where you thought, that was too far.

[653] I went too far and I wish I could take it back.

[654] I haven't seen it.

[655] But you will, you get.

[656] Usually the people that I interviewed were actually my friends.

[657] Do you know what I mean?

[658] Right.

[659] Or I knew them a little bit.

[660] And then I would talk to them like, this is a movie.

[661] We're making a movie here.

[662] So don't, I remember when.

[663] Ricky Jervais, when I was doing the Maya Marty summer show a couple years ago, and he was going to do a Jiminy Glick.

[664] And I'd never met him, but he was very, we talked in the phone, he said, I just don't want to get in your way.

[665] I don't want to screw it up.

[666] I don't want to be that guy.

[667] And I said, no, no, no, you must just say whatever you want.

[668] And he was so hilarious.

[669] So he just let, he was able to let go.

[670] He just let go.

[671] And then, of course, you go on for, you edit it later.

[672] You edit him out.

[673] It's funny.

[674] That's my gimmick.

[675] So if I interview you, I'd say you do whatever you want and really try to be funny.

[676] And then cut you out.

[677] And then cut me out.

[678] I've always wanted it as a joke to have a great comic like yourself on.

[679] You kill and then edit it in a way where every time you go to score.

[680] And another copy goes out, the real way goes out to everybody else.

[681] But I get someone to show you a tape.

[682] the next day because you won't watch it and anytime you're about you're telling the story and you get to the big laugh they cut to me and I'm shot separately and it's me looking perplexed and we've taken the laugh out and I've always thought wouldn't it be great to just have that get a friend who's in on it and they say that was weird what would he do what do you mean I killed last night no I have it take a look wouldn't that be fun to be a lot of time a lot of money in your world You have to tell the time This was back on the old late night show I interviewed you, killed lots of laughs You moved down the couch And then you know what I'm talking about I do but I don't know how you sell it on a podcast But I'll try You're right, it's hard Well this is what happened So I moved down the couch And a young actress came out And now Conan was now earning his wages, let's put that way, because, you know, I think what he had to go with is she had been a model, but now she had some lines to read in a show or something like that.

[683] And her publicist has said, it's important we get across that she's an actress now, she's not a model anymore.

[684] Right.

[685] So Conan is interviewing her here.

[686] We can't see this, but I'll just subscribe it, is sitting there.

[687] And I've moved down the couch.

[688] And then Conan said, so now that you're actually doing scenes, is that more rewarding than just being a model or some question like that?

[689] And I went, nod to my head like, hmm.

[690] Yeah.

[691] How provocative.

[692] And he also leaned forward.

[693] But I did it so that he could see me. He leaned forward a little bit so that the actress couldn't see it.

[694] But then behind the actress, Marty just peered his head into my view and did a kind of a slightly sarcastic, hmm, fascinating.

[695] Fascinating.

[696] Fascinating.

[697] And I...

[698] No, you started to laugh a little bit.

[699] I started to laugh a little bit.

[700] But I bit my lip and got through the rest of the interview.

[701] And then the band kicks in because it's time for commercial.

[702] And you take us home.

[703] And then Conan got up, walked around, leaned over to my head and said, I'm just trying to make a living asshole.

[704] I'll never forget that.

[705] Oh, that was so funny.

[706] I'm just trying to make a living asshole.

[707] That's one of my favorite.

[708] I'll say, hmm, fascinating.

[709] What an impossible person to have.

[710] In your eye line.

[711] Yeah, in my eye line.

[712] It's never performed with, what is it, dogs, children, and Martin Short anywhere around.

[713] It's absolutely impossible.

[714] This has been delightful.

[715] Thank you.

[716] Equal, right back at you.

[717] You don't mean it.

[718] I do.

[719] I do.

[720] You're the best.

[721] With a tie clip, I've always said.

[722] I went right from the show to this little room.

[723] You look good.

[724] Thank you.

[725] This is my coffin look.

[726] You do, but there's nothing wrong with having your coffin look.

[727] Right.

[728] It just means that...

[729] It doesn't get better than what I have now.

[730] And you're probably not going to change it.

[731] It's so nice to have someone pick on you on how you look, you know.

[732] What are you talking about?

[733] He picks on me a lot.

[734] Okay.

[735] I don't pick on him.

[736] I think it's not.

[737] nice that you're all ready for summer camp.

[738] You look good.

[739] You look fantastic.

[740] I hope you wrote your name in your underwear.

[741] Trying to make a living.

[742] No, I know.

[743] And you've made a handsome living.

[744] Thank you.

[745] You have.

[746] I mean, I've been to your home.

[747] His home.

[748] Not any of this room.

[749] Oh, they will never be there.

[750] No, no, no. Sona has managed to get as far as the gate three times.

[751] Yeah.

[752] You won't let me in.

[753] That's a big electrical shock.

[754] Isn't it?

[755] Thank you so much for doing this.

[756] Thank you, Conan.

[757] I love you dearly.

[758] You know this.

[759] You didn't even make eye contact.

[760] You look down and away.

[761] Because I can't make eye contact with someone when I'm lying.

[762] All right.

[763] You win again.

[764] Martin Short.

[765] Bye bye.

[766] Bye bye.

[767] Conan Sona and I had an interview with the BBC the other day about the podcast.

[768] and that blows my mind that the BBC is aware that we have a podcast you'd think that have I mean they're going through Brexit shouldn't they be focused their country is literally their their parliamentary system which has survived like 800 years is crumbling and they're like by Joe we've got to speak to golly and so not my God that wasn't a put down no but your British accent is ridiculous oh I don't think it's ridiculous are you having a stroke?

[769] Oh, you think maybe I'm having a stroke.

[770] Oh, yeah, ma 'er.

[771] It's the posh, posh, Posh, travelin' knife to travelin' life for me. First cabin captain's quarter's real company.

[772] I said, pull out, star, but don't Pross of the capital Preet.

[773] O S. H. Posh.

[774] Oh, Mary Poppins.

[775] Oh, no. I blacked out.

[776] What happened?

[777] I just woke up.

[778] Well, this is aprop of what they were saying.

[779] This room smells like fish and chips.

[780] What happened?

[781] The host called Sona and me the matriarch and patriarch of the podcast and we're wrangling you as the child.

[782] Oh, that's so that they did a whole psychological profile of the show.

[783] Kind of, would you say?

[784] I think so.

[785] They also said that Matt and I are your consistent friends and you're constantly trying to upgrade your friends with these celebrities.

[786] Oh, no. Conan O 'Brien just spilled a bottle of water.

[787] He just Freudian spilled.

[788] All over.

[789] Maybe I did it intentionally.

[790] You just called me a troublesome child.

[791] Yeah.

[792] No kidding.

[793] So I threw water on the table.

[794] So wait, what did the BBC say?

[795] Originally he said that you were kind of like the ruler, but then he said the more he listened that Sona and I were like the matriarch and the patriarch wrangling you as the child.

[796] Right.

[797] So you're my parents, and I'm the kid.

[798] I think petulant child.

[799] Petulant child.

[800] With like severe ADHD and you're hyperactive and needy.

[801] But maybe I'm Harry Potter, which means you two die.

[802] and then I, what a leap.

[803] Then I am great powers are visited upon me, great abilities.

[804] From us.

[805] Yeah.

[806] I mean, if you're following the lore, right?

[807] Sure.

[808] Okay.

[809] Do you have a scar?

[810] Yeah.

[811] That's why I have the giant pompadour I comb it forward to hide the scar.

[812] But yeah, so it's possible.

[813] Do you think sometimes you are hard to reign in, just in general, even in normal life when we are working?

[814] And there's only one answer to that.

[815] Well, yes.

[816] I think it's difficult when someone.

[817] given so much creativity.

[818] Okay.

[819] When someone's given so many powers, it's difficult.

[820] It's hard.

[821] I don't know what it's like for you, too.

[822] Would you say sometimes when I'm like going through things you have to do during the day, you're just doing bits and looking at me funny and you're like putting your glasses askew and you're like, I am performing 24 -7.

[823] Yes.

[824] And you are constantly looking at me. Like, why, why do I have to work for this man?

[825] But you have to admit, I'm entertaining occasionally.

[826] You are.

[827] But it is a lot of, like, I am actually trying to do work and you are making the, you're making it more difficult.

[828] Yes, yes.

[829] With bits.

[830] Yes, I behave foolishly.

[831] I could probably do a better job of being an adult.

[832] Now, there are times where I'm trying to do work, and you're busy watching episodes of Barry.

[833] Mommy needs her me time.

[834] I need my me time She's drinking a giant glass of white wine At her desk at 11 o 'clock in the morning And then you goarly You know what I feel like the appropriate thing?

[835] You're the dad?

[836] I feel like actually you're a single mother With a kid who just teach fruit loops all day And I'm the stepdad that came in late And don't know how much I can discipline Right, right, right And you're sort of a You're a cartoonist for You write like a Kathy cartoon The local paper I don't even illustrate it, I just write it?

[837] No, you write it.

[838] You're not good enough.

[839] You try to illustrate it, but you're not good enough.

[840] So you just write, you write stuff like, oh, this yogurt doesn't have any fruit on the bottom.

[841] And then someone else has to, then someone else has to draw it.

[842] And so you make very little off these cartoons.

[843] I'm kind of living off you guys.

[844] And you found out, you moved in on Sona when you found out that she made money when her first husband was killed in that yak attack.

[845] Yeah, and that her child is like a child actor.

[846] She's a stage mom and embezzles his money.

[847] She has a six -foot -four son, the shock of red hair, who's got his own late -night show, and he's making some bank.

[848] So you moved in.

[849] And all you have to do is every now and then you say, like, well, I got to go think of the next Kathy cartoon.

[850] Can I have a little money?

[851] Yeah.

[852] And you're like, so you don't draw them.

[853] No, Eric draws them.

[854] I'm not good enough to draw them.

[855] But I just thought of a new one.

[856] Kathy gets on the scale, and she's like, oh, boy.

[857] Why does my scale have to be so honest?

[858] So I'm calling Eric to see if he can draw it.

[859] Eric's only taking my phone calls so sporadically.

[860] Eric's starting to write them too, and they're pretty good.

[861] Oh, well.

[862] This explains your hostility to Matt a lot, too.

[863] Just you lashing out at him a lot sometimes.

[864] I don't mean to lash out of you, Matt.

[865] I really do like you.

[866] You do a very good job.

[867] Oh, disarmed, are we?

[868] I know if I know what to think.

[869] No, no. You do a very good job.

[870] You've made this podcast of success.

[871] You're very obviously well known in this field because every time someone comes in to talk to me, all I hear is, you know, oh my God, it's Matt Gourley.

[872] He's, you know, he did Cinnamon Hour with Mr. Chop Chop.

[873] What?

[874] Who's on the Lubbadov network?

[875] But anyway, I know that you're a big deal in this sphere that I didn't even know existed.

[876] But that's like being known in the podcasting world is like being known in third world soap opera world.

[877] sincerely this all started with me complimenting you and then you goaded me into insulting you again it's my fault it is your fault and you'll be punished for it you're an excellent producer and a good man and a fine foil on this show I like doing it I mean you no ill will I mean you none and stepdad he's going out to the garage for a couple hours I'm gonna write another cartoon good I'm glad that you guys talk to the BBC yeah and the show is called podcast Radio Hour on BBC 4 the radio It blows my mind that we sit in here and we put no thought into this thing and now people in a country I respect are listening to it.

[878] The same network that brings you in our time with Melvin Bragg one of the brainiest shows ever created is concerned with it.

[879] I don't know what that was that you just...

[880] You would love this show.

[881] What is it?

[882] It's called In Our Time with Melvin Bragg.

[883] Is it a podcast?

[884] And no, it's a radio show.

[885] You would die.

[886] You would love it.

[887] Oh, you'd like that.

[888] Yeah.

[889] I see your little plot.

[890] Can I ask you a question?

[891] Do podcast people like yourself have hostility towards conventional radio?

[892] Not at all.

[893] That's like the forefather.

[894] I loved radio.

[895] Yeah, but I bet you're real snobby about it, though, right?

[896] Like, mm, it's not a podcast.

[897] You can't download it.

[898] He really wants there to be beef between podcasts and radio.

[899] I would love it if there was a real gang rivalry between regular old -fashioned radio.

[900] Do you have a thing against vaudeville?

[901] Yes.

[902] You do?

[903] What?

[904] I do.

[905] I hate vaudevillians with their juggling and their, they're, capering about I can't stand vaudeville and that's I'm glad that we crushed it we successfully destroyed vaudeville God, you're surpers I have no ill will towards radio also it's dead now anyway so there's nothing to worry about so you did put the knife in didn't you yeah was that all you had to say about the BBC I think so anything else?

[906] We had a great time should we plug it?

[907] why not?

[908] I mean they said that they're going to start their podcast on May 31st it's a podcast about podcast or it's a radio show about podcast Wait a minute There are podcasts about podcasts Oh yeah There's probably podcasts about podcasts about podcasts Right You know what no one's doing anymore What?

[909] No one's growing crops No But there's a podcast No one's making food or growing crops And I think we're all going to starve In about two years Because everyone's going to be in their basement Going well I'm here with Matt Gourley This is the snake that ate its tail With me, Bill Sibbles -D All right I gotta go Yeah.

[910] Conan O 'Brien needs a friend with Sonam of Sessian and Conan O 'Brien as himself.

[911] Produced by me, Matt Goreley, executive produced by Adam Sacks and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Chris Bannon and Colin Anderson at Earwolf.

[912] Special thanks to Jack White for the theme song.

[913] Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.

[914] Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and the show is engineered by Will Bechton.

[915] You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find.

[916] find your review featured on a future episode.

[917] Got a question for Conan?

[918] Call the Team Coco hotline at 323 -451 -2821 and leave a message.

[919] It too could be featured on a future episode.

[920] And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend on Apple Podcasts or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

[921] This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.