#1765 - Phillip Frankland Lee

[0] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

[1] The Joe Rogan Experience.

[2] Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[3] So, Philip, my friend Philip here, who's the head chef of the greatest sushi place on planet Earth.

[4] I say to young Jamie, young Jamie, have you had sushi at sushi bar ATX yet?

[5] And he goes, I don't like fish.

[6] Yeah.

[7] Put that microphone on your face.

[8] What's wrong with that?

[9] What is, what, what could you not like about fish?

[10] Well, I've, like, I've eaten it.

[11] I'm not, like, afraid to try it all the time.

[12] I've worked at restaurants, and, you know, they've made really great halibut.

[13] Okay, what about filet of fish sandwiches for McDonald?

[14] No, that's not.

[15] How, what the fuck?

[16] Those are goddamn delicious.

[17] It's like a smell and taste to it that just.

[18] I mean, have you, have you tried fish?

[19] I mean, obviously, you know, a filet of fish sandwich is not going to be, you know, $100 pound Toro.

[20] But it's still delicious.

[21] Flay of fish is like the best thing McDonald's ever figured out No Listen, yes Listen, I know it's terrible for you Like every time I eat one There's like the brain It's saying to the mouth What the fuck is wrong with you And then the body's like dude But the mouse like Shut up bitch I don't have a man I'm steak and potatoes from Ohio Like it's just I enjoy steak and potatoes as well though I just that I don't know Some people just I always wonder If people just have like if their tongue works different like uh i have two my youngest daughter you've met my kids yeah my youngest loves spicy food i mean she can fuck with some really spicy hot sauce like uh i got this uh signor lechuga uh hot sauce they sent me a bunch of it's awesome stuff and they sent me some with uh reapers i mean it's got a fucking kick to it i'll have it and uh and she goes what's that hot sauce and i go this one might be too hot for you she goes let me try.

[22] I go, you serious?

[23] And she's like dipping her finger into this Reaper sauce.

[24] She'll I can handle it.

[25] I go, wow, she's 11.

[26] That's gnarly.

[27] It's gnarly.

[28] My 13 year old will not fuck with it at all.

[29] She's like, yeah.

[30] She barely likes crushed red pepper on pizza.

[31] She can't handle that.

[32] Yeah, I mean, everyone's a little bit different with the way that they're, you know, like coffee.

[33] I hate coffee.

[34] That's so odd to me. I think the flavor is disgusting.

[35] And I, it's, It's, you know, I've definitely had that conversation with people before and they're like, well, you haven't tried the right coffee.

[36] And I've tried everybody's who's suggested that.

[37] I just think it tastes disgusting.

[38] It tastes burnt.

[39] Do you not like caffeine or do you not like...

[40] Well, I don't do caffeine.

[41] None.

[42] My body doesn't work well with it.

[43] What happens when you have caffeine?

[44] I just get shaky.

[45] Oh, really?

[46] I think I kind of OD'd on Red Bulls when I was younger.

[47] I used to drink like four or five a day and then one day I just didn't work anymore.

[48] Did you see that refrigerator that we have out in the hallway that's the black rifle coffee refrigerator?

[49] Yeah.

[50] They have these cans of black rifle coffee.

[51] It's like a cold, it's like espresso with milk and sugar.

[52] It's so fucking good.

[53] They're so delicious.

[54] But there's 300 milligrams of caffeine in every can.

[55] I mean, what is a Red Bull?

[56] Red Bull's like, I'm going to guess, 150?

[57] As a Red Bull, let's guess.

[58] How many, how many milligrams?

[59] I'm not even, no idea.

[60] Too many.

[61] What is it?

[62] 12 ounce can, it says 111.

[63] Okay, that ain't shit.

[64] It's got that torring.

[65] I'm just kidding.

[66] Oh, it's got that bull come?

[67] No, it's got other stuff in it.

[68] Do you know Torreene is Bullcom?

[69] I do now.

[70] I don't know if Red Bull has it.

[71] I think that was the original, Hitler was into that stuff, apparently.

[72] Yeah, I mean, that should give you wings, right?

[73] I think that's the whole reason why Red Bull has a bull on it and it has Torin.

[74] I think the bull is supposed to...

[75] I don't think they get it that way.

[76] I see.

[77] It says it has a thursday.

[78] thousand milligrams of torine.

[79] Oh, Jesus.

[80] I don't know if that's a lot compared to something.

[81] Yeah, I don't know.

[82] That might be a small amount.

[83] I have no idea.

[84] I have no reference point.

[85] But here's the thing.

[86] You gave me this.

[87] Thank you very much.

[88] Absolutely.

[89] This is, it says the Yamakazi single malt Japanese whiskey, and you said that this is.

[90] So, yeah, so the Yamazaki sherry cask, uh, 2016.

[91] this bottle won I can't remember which you know whiskey world awards or whatever but it did win gold and so this became like I don't want to call it the Holy Grail but it became one of the most sought after bottles of whiskey in modern times and mainly not just because of how the fact that it won gold but they only made enough to produce 5 ,000 bottles and so the bottles have been gone for quite some time here we go oh that smells good I have a buddy, my buddy, Alex, shout out to Alex.

[92] He's really into, like, really nice Japanese whiskey.

[93] He'll get a, he knows this.

[94] Give me that glass, son.

[95] Come on.

[96] Give me just a touch.

[97] Just a touch.

[98] That bottle's at a last.

[99] There's not many left.

[100] Come on.

[101] Nothing lasts.

[102] What are you going to live forever?

[103] Cheers, my friend.

[104] Cheers.

[105] Oh, wow, that's interesting.

[106] It's almost like ethereal.

[107] It's like...

[108] God, that's unique.

[109] That is very unique.

[110] that's a surprising taste because it is whiskey like but it's very different than any other whiskey I've ever tried it's also like feel now it's almost like tingling like all around your palate so when did you know that you wanted to be a chef like how long have you been like really into cooking because you're a young guy by the way congratulations on the Michelin stars thank you that's a giant right in the world of chefs that's that's the fucking thing right yeah I mean, I dedicated the last probably 15 years of my life just to trying to get a Michelin Star.

[111] And when I found out this year, they had me on a Zoom call.

[112] They kind of lied to me. They kind of, what they did is they said, we wanted, they said, first of all, I said, you're not getting a star this year, just so you know.

[113] But we want to have, send someone to the restaurant in Los Angeles.

[114] and we have some interview questions we want to ask you about, you know, how it was to operate during COVID.

[115] And I said, well, I'm in Austin, but I can fly back.

[116] I'm like, no, no big deal.

[117] Don't fly back.

[118] Just zoom in.

[119] So I zoom in, and they have my wife, who's our pastry chef and my business partner.

[120] She's at the restaurant.

[121] And so was my brother, who was the chef of sushi bar and Montecito, and our chef at pasta bar.

[122] And they're all three there, just in the restaurant.

[123] And I'm at my house here in Austin.

[124] and I'm on Zoom, and they start asking us some random questions about, you know, how is it, you know, what's it like being open and what did you, the, you know, pitfalls you had to overcome.

[125] And then out of nowhere, they just go, oh, and I have one extra question.

[126] Congratulations.

[127] Two of your restaurants are getting Michelin Stars.

[128] Oh, they snuck it in on you.

[129] They snuck it in, and I'm on, and the thing is, I'm on a Zoom.

[130] And so I was like, wait, what did she say?

[131] Like, I couldn't hear, and everyone, it, and I thought we had just gotten one, and it turned out, they said, no, no, no. And I said, wait, which restaurant?

[132] They said, sushi bar, Montecito, and, uh, and pasta bar.

[133] And, uh, and pasta bar is in L .A.?

[134] Pasta bar is in L .A. And, um, I just started crying.

[135] Wow.

[136] Yeah, so.

[137] I was just reading, uh, on the history of the Michelin Star and that it was really back in the early days of travel, they had a book would show you where you can get your car repaired, where you could refuel, and then where you can get something to eat.

[138] And then people got really obsessed with the where to get something to eat part, and then it became a separate entity.

[139] It was never, I don't think they ever set out to become the world standard on cuisine.

[140] I don't think that was ever the point.

[141] The point was, we have to give you a reason to buy tires, and that reason is to drink.

[142] drive and so here's some things to drive to and so that's what the one star two star three star you know delineations have to have to do with is this one is worth you know a stop this one's worth a detour and this one's worth a journey and so that's how you get one star two star three star so one star means if it's on your way stop that was over a hundred years ago now one star means you know fly there but three star means like upend your life and go figure like go find that place.

[143] What's that?

[144] Who's got three stars?

[145] Here in America, not many people.

[146] McDonald's?

[147] McDonald's, yes.

[148] I think they have four stars, actually.

[149] Is there anywhere in America that has three?

[150] Yeah, a couple places.

[151] Like what?

[152] The French laundry has three stars.

[153] Oh, okay, that's that place where Gavin Newsom got in trouble, right?

[154] I watched a video on that, not on that, but on Bourdain, when Bourdain, I think it was the old show.

[155] I think it wasn't even, I think it was no reservations, yeah, and he went to French Laundry.

[156] It was pretty fucking incredible.

[157] Yeah, I've only got to eat there once, but it's, I mean, it's an institution.

[158] Is that good?

[159] Oh, yeah.

[160] Oh, yeah.

[161] I mean, it's, it's, for a long time, it was the restaurant in America.

[162] Mm. The.

[163] It was the restaurant.

[164] And isn't it kind of a weird spot?

[165] Like, you got to travel?

[166] Yeah, but that's part of sort of the allure of, not to say they wouldn't be a three -star restaurant without, you know, having that, that part of traveling.

[167] but three stars is when you're worth the journey.

[168] So you could be in like the Himalayas or some shit.

[169] Yeah, I mean, a lot of some of the three -star restaurants around the world are not in, you know, they're not in strip malls.

[170] They're not in city centers.

[171] They're, you know, they've bought ranches.

[172] They've bought, you know, they have land.

[173] El Bully was on the top of a mountain.

[174] Where's El Bully?

[175] Well, that's been closed for a long time, but that was in Spain.

[176] Oh, yeah?

[177] Yeah.

[178] So, I mean, they're saying it like, I know.

[179] I don't know any of this, listen, let me into your world.

[180] I don't know what you're talking about.

[181] What's El Bully?

[182] So that was Farinadria.

[183] They were named best restaurant in the world several years over.

[184] It was really the restaurant that really brought what became known as molecular gastronomy, all the food that's, you know, Jamie would probably look at and say, this is, what am I looking at?

[185] This doesn't look like food.

[186] This looks like interesting, abstract art. But, you know, today you have restaurants where, you know, you know you'll get literally a balloon that's brought out to the table and you eat the suck the helium out and eat the balloon and that's you know one of the courses oh wow 12 iconic dishes of el boolee so this is like fancy dining and this is like it's beyond fancy dining someone from jamie's lineage would look about this and if you asked him is that like what is this and you didn't tell me it was you wouldn't think that was food Yeah, Jamie's not into this, I could tell already.

[187] Is it sea urchin?

[188] That is sea urchin.

[189] Oh, delicious.

[190] Do you like sea urchin?

[191] No, I just tried octopus recently.

[192] And?

[193] Oh, okay.

[194] I feel bad eating octopus because they found out fucking smart there.

[195] I know, that's what I thought.

[196] I was like, I'll try it so I can say I tried it, but.

[197] But they're, you know, they're fucking good, yeah.

[198] They're very good, but there are murderers.

[199] I mean, they murder everything.

[200] Yeah, I'd rather have macaroni and cheese and steak or...

[201] Oh, my God, macaroni and cheese.

[202] I was just saying, I'd rather have something else.

[203] There is good macaron and cheese out there, by the way.

[204] There's some places.

[205] I'm trying, off the tip of my head.

[206] There was a place that had, like, a truffle macaroni and cheese with, like, really good cheese.

[207] God damn, what place was that?

[208] I'm not going to get it.

[209] I'm not going to let it go.

[210] My house for Thanksgiving.

[211] That's where you get the best mac and cheese.

[212] Do you make bag of cheese?

[213] Yeah.

[214] Yeah.

[215] What do you do with it?

[216] So it's partially my grandma's recipe.

[217] So basically I make a cheese sauce.

[218] separately with gruerre, sharp cheddar, and then I'll boil the macaroni, cool it down, and then I'll take a bunch of shredded cheese as well and kind of layer it almost like you would be layering like a lasagna a little bit, and then cover the entire top with melted cheese as well, and then kind of the secret to that is in the cheese sauce smoked paprika.

[219] Yeah And so when you eat it It's got a little bit of the You know Craft Mac and cheese of like the Like the What is even?

[220] Like the sauciness But you have layers And you build it when it's cold So you have layers of just shredded cheese all through it So you still have that That pull of the cheese like a nice pizza And then you have a crispy cheese crust Lazzania like almost It's really good Wow Damn Yeah You know I am addicted to watch it.

[221] There's so many pages on Instagram now that are just, they're essentially like a one minute cooking show.

[222] Have you ever watched any of those?

[223] Maybe.

[224] I'm sure I'm sure I flipped through them.

[225] It's, why do people love looking at people cooking food?

[226] Because I fucking love it.

[227] Yeah.

[228] I think it's got to be something like psychological.

[229] It's got to be something about like watching somebody nourish like creating nourishment maybe in some sort of like, you know, abstract way that you haven't really...

[230] It's an art thing, though.

[231] It's also like there's a beauty to it.

[232] There's a creation of like a delicious meal.

[233] Like you know how good that's going to taste because you've had something similar.

[234] And so you're watching them put together some dish with skill and then all the different elements of it and all the, you know, the knowledge that has to be.

[235] You have to earn the ability to cook a delicious meal.

[236] Like, you have, it's not something very simple, like, to do it just right.

[237] It's, it's, it's, it's a art form.

[238] It is, but it's, but like most art forms, it's a craft, and it's a practicable craft.

[239] Yeah.

[240] And, but I think back to what you're saying about, like, what, why are people attracted to that?

[241] I mean, you can go on and watch, you know, people blow dry their hair or apply makeup, and that, you know, is probably attracting some people, but only people who care about, you know, makeup.

[242] Where it feels like even people who aren't into food, who aren't like, you know, self -aclaimed foodies, they still like watching food.

[243] And I think it has to be something deeper than just a craft that is interesting to look at.

[244] Yeah, though that's one of the things that's fascinating about it, is that it is a craft, but it's also, like you said, it's nourishment.

[245] I mean, everybody needs food.

[246] And it's also, it looks fucking amazing.

[247] It's one of the only things where the artist, if you call them an artist or craftsman, Have to take enough responsibility and have enough integrity to understand that the art they're creating is going to be ingested by the audience Not just hung on the wall or worn right Yeah, well that it took me a while to figure out that it is art It really was Bourdain that showed me from his first show from no reservations I remember watching that show and one of the beautiful things about no reservations and then also Parts Unknown was that his narration was all his writing.

[248] And it was all so very specific to his writing.

[249] In fact, his voice is so specific that, you know, he got obsessed with jujitsu and started posting on a Reddit jiu -jitsu subthread.

[250] And eventually people figured out that it was him.

[251] Just because of his voice?

[252] I don't know how they figured it out.

[253] And it may have been posthumously that they figured it out.

[254] But there was this whole article about Bourdain posting.

[255] on this subreddit and like real honest about his journey and his battles with Jiu -Jitsu but he did it in a way that's very similar to the way he does the narration on his show which was one of the more interesting things about the show because you got an insight into an art where you're the practitioner is explaining it but he's so articulate and passionate and shooting star gotcha yeah I see people like am I tripping Yeah, there's shooting stars in the ceiling But there's this There's an aspect to the way he would describe it And I remember watching his show going Oh, it's art Like it was like duh Like why didn't I see it this way before?

[256] I just thought oh that place is delicious But there's also an art to like changing a tire Or anything like when you see someone who's really good at something There's an art to it Right especially if you're into that thing Yeah Yeah I always talk about that with pool The Game of Pool because most people look at a pool, it's fucking boring.

[257] You're just shooting a ball in the hole.

[258] Yeah.

[259] Who cares?

[260] But for someone like me who plays, I see someone like Earl Strickland, like a great pool player, I watch a play like, God damn it, that's amazing.

[261] It's beautiful.

[262] Yeah, I mean, when somebody can make something look easy, but also make it look sexy at the same time.

[263] Mm. Sexy.

[264] Yeah.

[265] It's really cool that we live in a time where the entry barrier to like expressing yourself.

[266] in that kind of a way is so so simple like there's a guy on uh instagram that i was just going back and forth with he's got a great page it's uh cooking underscore with underscore fire and he makes bomb -ass mexican food and he was a chef and he uh he's just basically dedicating all his time now to putting online content out and he's doing like a one -minute cookie show he just does the whole like no matter what he makes he bangs it out Cooking with fire seems to be hard to do in one minute.

[267] Well, he does, it's just a really, you know, well -edited thing.

[268] He'll do the whole deal from creating the salsa to cooking the meat to creating some sort of a sauce to go on it.

[269] And every time I watch his channel, I want to fucking eat like a pig.

[270] So, like, he's creating all these different things.

[271] And then he's, you know, making the, okay, this is just hot dogs wrap the bake.

[272] You picked a terrible one, Jamie.

[273] Excuse me?

[274] Sounds delicious.

[275] I think Jamie picked the one he wants to cook for him tonight.

[276] That is exactly what Jamie would watch.

[277] I don't want to watch him cook shrimp.

[278] But anyway, it's one of those things.

[279] That's a little nomad grill.

[280] That's pretty badass cool grill.

[281] You could take that sucker around with like a suitcase.

[282] It's all insulated.

[283] But the point is that there's the entry barrier to putting out content like that is so, It's so minimal now.

[284] It's like all you have to do is have a camera and point it at you when you cook and just have some narration.

[285] Yeah, it's something that definitely wasn't there before, but I don't know.

[286] I haven't really gotten that into watching it really myself.

[287] Do you, I mean, obviously you've worked with some great chefs.

[288] Do you like watching people put the food together?

[289] I used to watch like food TV religiously.

[290] Um, I think that was, that was, you know, when I was sort of like just up and coming as like a young cook, um, when, you know, the thing is, uh, being a chef and being a cook are two entirely different things.

[291] Obviously, being a cook is, uh, is a prerequisite.

[292] What's the difference?

[293] So if, if, if I was to come over to your house tonight and I was to cook you the best meal you ever had, that would not make me a great chef.

[294] That would make me a great cook.

[295] So you cook one thing.

[296] Like maybe a chef.

[297] means you can cook a bunch of different things?

[298] No. The fact that I did it myself.

[299] If I cook you food, I'm cooking.

[300] If I brought five or six people over to your house and I got them to work together to make you the best meal you've ever had, that would make me a chef.

[301] So calling, saying that like, you know, my wife makes, you know, my wife cooks great food, so she's a fantastic chef, isn't correct.

[302] It's more like saying that a conductor of an orchestra, you wouldn't call the conduct.

[303] conductor, a great violinist.

[304] Now, the conductor probably needs to not just know how to play the violin, but also, you know, be very good at it.

[305] Okay, so a chef can cook, but they really coordinate all these people that are cooking together in a restaurant.

[306] It means chief.

[307] But when you have a private chef that people hire to their home to cook for them, and that's an individual, what is that guy, now a private cook?

[308] Well, you can hire a private chef.

[309] That sounds a lot better than a private cook, but What is the job function of that person?

[310] Well, I guess in that scenario, if you just have a – because there's some households that have, you know, a team, right?

[311] And some households would have a single individual who's cooking.

[312] So you can be the chef who also cooks.

[313] It's not to say that if you cook, you are therefore not a chef.

[314] It's just that the difference – and we're talking more about in the industry, being a chef is to be someone who brings others together to cook, as opposed to someone who.

[315] just cooks.

[316] So you would call it, like if you're working in a restaurant, a steak restaurant, the chef would be the main guy that tells everybody what to do.

[317] That's the person who's typically writing the menu, who's handling all the ordering.

[318] That's typically the person who's dealing with the broken dishwasher.

[319] Oh, well that's not glamorous.

[320] No. The fuck is that?

[321] No. Don't you have a guy that handles a ditcher?

[322] Well, I guess maybe if you're at a famous steakhouse, maybe the chef isn't dealing with that, but in a normal, you know, restaurant.

[323] Small restaurant.

[324] Yeah.

[325] Yeah.

[326] And so the other people that are working for them, they're cooking the meals, you wouldn't consider them chefs as well.

[327] Well, that's why the person who typically runs like the line is called the sous chef, under chef.

[328] Oh, that's what Sue means.

[329] Yeah.

[330] S -O -U -S.

[331] S -O -U -S.

[332] So you have, you have chef -de -parties, which are basically station cooks, and then they report to a Sue chef who reports to, in some cases a chef -to -quizene who reports to a chef.

[333] Okay, so the suvied means underwater then.

[334] Is that what I mean?

[335] Under pressure, I think it's I think VED is pressure But I could be wrong But you're cooking in water What's the pressure?

[336] It doesn't have to be water So you can cook suvied in like in any sort of So what you're doing with suvite is Is you're creating an anaerobic environment by What is suvite?

[337] Under vacuum Okay Okay, so like a vacuum back Yeah so under pressure And so the idea is You know the picture over here on the right Is what you would most associate suvied with is one of these immersion circulators, but you also can take that bag and you can put it into a steamer, which I guess does have water, but it's not underwater.

[338] I've seen people cook suvied in a Ziploc bag, though.

[339] So what the hell's going on there?

[340] Well, you've taken out, I mean, you didn't use a vacuum machine per se, but you can do what we call ghetto vac.

[341] And so if you actually take, say take a steak, you put it in a Ziploc bad, if you take a bowl of ice water and you submerge the steak into the ice water, it's going to push and force all the oxygen out the top and you slowly put it in there until you just have the zip at the top and then you zip lock and you pull it out and it's a ghetto vac.

[342] Oh, I see what you're saying.

[343] Okay.

[344] But I've seen people do it where they just put it in there and just zip it.

[345] None of that ghetto vac.

[346] They probably aren't at a really nice restaurant.

[347] No, they're at home.

[348] Yeah.

[349] I mean, yeah, you can do it at home.

[350] But is the results the same?

[351] So the less of an environment that is there, the more accurate you're going to have the cook.

[352] So if you have a bunch of oxygen in that bag, then that oxygen is going to react at a different temperature or a different rate than if there's no oxygen.

[353] Now, when you first started cooking, did you go to culinary school?

[354] Were you cooking actively before you went to culinary school?

[355] Yeah, so I went to culinary school.

[356] I'd been cooking for years, and I only went for a few months and I dropped out.

[357] Really?

[358] Yeah.

[359] Look at that, kids.

[360] You can drop out of culinary school and get two Michelin stars.

[361] why did you drop out I thought I was going to like University of food you know I enrolled because I wanted to learn why I wanted to learn and everything I knew up until that point in my career was just what the guy next to me had taught me and that was because he was like all right once you get here okay turn that okay you see what you're looking and that that's it just do this as a line cook you you spend most of your time just doing what you're told and so I thought okay at this point it's what I knew what I wanted to do and so I thought to myself that I'm going to go to school and really learn about this and then I got there and it was cooking class and I had no desire to take cooking classes well what do you mean by cooking class it was just step by step basics they're teaching you the alphabet essentially kind of it was I mean it wasn't even that it was the alphabet bet.

[362] It was, well, there was a couple of reasons that I quit.

[363] One was actually, we talked about the French laundry.

[364] I had the opportunity while I was in culinary school.

[365] One of my chefs had invited me to go with him and another group of chefs to the French laundry.

[366] And I went to my teacher and said, hey, I need a couple days off.

[367] I have been invited.

[368] And they had this really strict rule of if you miss two classes in any semester or whatever, you fail the class.

[369] And this was like a breakfast egg cookery class.

[370] And I said, well, I used to work at a restaurant called BLD in Los Angeles.

[371] And I worked both the plancha and sometimes I worked the egg station and we did 400 cover brunches.

[372] I know that we're going to boil one egg at a time next week.

[373] But like can I, you know, This is a fantastic opportunity for me as a young cook to go and have dinner with these chefs at the French laundry.

[374] And they said, sorry, you know, if you're not here for this, then you're going to fail.

[375] And I said, well, then fuck that.

[376] I should be getting extra credit.

[377] Yeah, it seems like that would be a wiser choice to give you credit, not fail you.

[378] And I also said, well, look, I'll take the final quiz for this class now, which is, you know, you have to make the dish.

[379] I already spent over a year working 400 cover brunches at a really nice restaurant I'm not going to learn that much more than what I've already done in real life I've already left that part of my career to go on, you know, to the bigger and better restaurants.

[380] So did you feel like the system is just too rigid or just the way they were teaching it?

[381] They ended up getting a huge class action lawsuit against them later on and they had to give everyone their tuition money back, I think.

[382] Why?

[383] I didn't follow it.

[384] I also didn't join the class action lawsuit, but I think it was something about over -promising and under -delivering.

[385] Okay.

[386] Well, is it safe to say that all culinary schools are not created equal?

[387] Oh, 100%.

[388] So if you went to another one, maybe?

[389] I don't think culinary school's not worth it.

[390] I just think that, like if you were to come to me, you know, 30, 40 years ago and said, I want to be a cook, I would say, uh don't go to culinary school because if you go to culinary school you come out with debt and if you come out of culinary school and we hire you at one of our restaurants we're going to end up saying to you great everything you just learn okay don't do any of that because now we want you to do it exactly how we do it and we're going to show you how we do it you're also going to start out at the bottom of the totem pole so you're going to start out you're going to be you know peeling onions.

[391] So cooking, is it safe to say or fair to say that it's essentially it's a craft that is best learned on the job?

[392] Yeah, I mean, think about like, you've been around like tattoo shops enough.

[393] Sure.

[394] You know what they, what like the apprentices go through to be able to tattoo there.

[395] Yeah, they tattoo on their own legs and shit.

[396] Or you get their friends.

[397] The thing is, you could imagine if if they went to school to learn how to tattoo and then went to the tattoo shop, they'd still have to go through that hazing they'd still have to go not that there's hazing in the kitchen but you still have to sort of earn your stripes yeah you don't and one of the things was when i enrolled in culinary school they had said when you graduate you will be eligible to be a chef to cuisine you'll start around 75 ,000 dollars a year and i think that's where they got in trouble i could be wrong but um when you get out of culinary school you're gonna work either for free well you can't do that anymore um but you used to have to work for free or you're just going to come in at the minimum minimum wage because yes you have a degree from culinary school but that doesn't mean that you're going to know anything that we need for this restaurant interesting so when did you start and what what did you do when you're your first job um so my so i started well actually feel like i should answer you the very first question you asked me which is when did i know i wanted to cook yeah because that kind of gets there.

[398] So I guess my dad knew before I knew, because he just recently sent me a video.

[399] It's actually on my Instagram.

[400] It's my third birthday party, and he's bought me a chef's knife.

[401] Wow.

[402] Yeah.

[403] Your third birthday party?

[404] And you can clearly hear him say, it's funny, because I think, I haven't gotten the full story, but I think my mom's holding the old, you know, the old camera, and it kind of shaking and I guess he says oh there it is right there I think he says I don't know what else to get him all he wants to do is cook that's not a real knife is it did you get you a real chef's night I actually haven't asked him because he said that to me and he said look you've always wanted to cook so I don't know if that's a I probably my dad yeah it's probably a real knife and did he just hide it from you here's your knife no I cooked growing up every day but did you use that knife I don't remember But you were three?

[405] Yeah, probably not.

[406] Probably wasn't.

[407] That seems like a lot for a three -year -old, those little tiny fingers.

[408] Yeah.

[409] See your fingers.

[410] They're all there.

[411] They're all there, but I'm missing, you know, some parts.

[412] Are you?

[413] Yeah.

[414] Some tips.

[415] Yeah.

[416] So right away, you always wanted to cook.

[417] Apparently I did.

[418] I don't really, I don't remember that, but I do remember being, I'm the oldest of five.

[419] And growing up, my dad cooked every single night at home.

[420] and he never wanted to go out so my parents divorced when I was very young and when we were at Dad's house he cooked and each of us had a responsibility you know one of my sisters would set the table the other one would clear the table my brother would do the dishes whatever that it was I was the only one who could see above the counter at a certain point and so I was always the one who would help cook interesting that's the days before phones because now you'd be like kids get off your phones and help Daddy yeah probably just let me finish my TikTok No, but apparently I would stop playing video games to come cook.

[421] Oh.

[422] Yeah, no, I loved it.

[423] And I cooked all the way, you know, I, that's how I started, you know, when I was younger and I wanted to, you know, take girls out.

[424] It was a lot less expensive if you go to the store and you buy stuff and you cook at home.

[425] Plus, it's kind of romantic and impressive.

[426] Like, wow, Philip cooks.

[427] Yeah, and you already finish, you know, you finish dinner and you're at home.

[428] Yeah, it's very cool.

[429] Yeah.

[430] Um, when you, that's, when you have something that you really love to do, like really early on, what an advantage that is?

[431] Because that's one of the things that troubles people the most when they're young.

[432] It's like, what do I want to do with my life?

[433] You know, when you find a thing that you're passionate about early, God, it's such a huge advantage.

[434] Yeah, it's really interesting looking back, because there's really only three things that I'm, like, that I excel at, uh, cooking, uh, playing the, drums and my dad bought me a my dad my parents got me a drum set when I was 18 months old and uh poker I learned my grandmother taught me how to count using cards real so though and those are today those are the three things that I have excelled at in my life so do you make money playing poker not like professionally but I have I have one money so you like when you go to Vegas do you get like real serious and take like neutropics fucking sit down and calm your mind.

[435] I took tournament poker series for a long time, but that's something I would go to Vegas for because in L .A., we've got fantastic tournament poker there.

[436] But I would study, and I would listen to podcasts, and I would review hands and things like that.

[437] Yeah, my friend Ari, Ari Shafir, when he was coming up in L .A., he was making most of his money playing poker.

[438] it's a fantastic discipline that that creates a very difficult uh how do you explain it it's uh well i'm sure he's explained it to you it's uh i don't listen to him i'm here for you um it's a very difficult life i tried playing professionally um when i was 18 uh there were indian casinos you could play at and i would i would go there and spend you know four or five days and i play for for three days straight.

[439] Get a room there and just crash?

[440] Yeah, they'll give you a room.

[441] Wow.

[442] And then I started at one day, I woke up and I was like, you know, I was playing for a lot, I was playing for a lot of money at the time for being 18 years old.

[443] And, you know, I'd sit down with a couple thousand in front of me. And then I would, you know, question whether or not I wanted to add extra cheese at my Taco Bell order because it was 27 cents.

[444] And it was like, the world just became.

[445] so skewed to me that I was like okay I need to stop because you were looking at money so much money and playing for so much money when you're playing poker yeah it wasn't even that I was making it because I was you know it was that I was playing with the money and so you start looking at at the world in terms of big blinds and uh big blinds so when you're playing hold them you have uh to the left of the dealer button you have a small blind and then to left of him you have a big blind which is basically your minimum bet.

[446] And so if you're playing like a 2 -5 game, and that's what I was playing back then.

[447] What's that mean?

[448] $2, $5.

[449] So $5 is a minimum bet to join the hand.

[450] And so it's forced action to the left of the dealer button.

[451] You're required to put $2 in if you're the small blind, and you're required to put $5 in just to start the action.

[452] So then you look at your cards, and if you're not in one of the blinds, you can fold for free.

[453] Or you can raise more.

[454] money or you can put in five dollars just to stay and when you start looking at the world in terms of big blinds it's time to either make that the only thing you do forever or or do something else and were you thinking about only playing poker at one point in time yeah I was and I was doing I had a really good job while I was playing cards I was actually selling mortgages so yeah so I was one of those guys that was selling the you know the state of income mortgages so you're selling mortgages playing poker but you really wanted to be a chef yeah well I wasn't a hundred percent sure yet that I wanted to be a chef so when I so when I was 15 I think is when I dropped out of high school and I did that because the band I was playing with was starting to take off and I spent the next several years touring and I would, you know, we'd be on tour and...

[455] You were on tour when you were 15?

[456] Yeah.

[457] That's divorced parents right there.

[458] Dad's like, go ahead.

[459] Fuck it.

[460] Live your life.

[461] Don't make the mistakes dad made.

[462] Well, get out there.

[463] Those are the things dad did too.

[464] Oh, Jesus.

[465] What did your parents think when you said you were going to go on tour at 15?

[466] Well, the band played in my dad's studio.

[467] My dad was a record producer.

[468] Oh.

[469] Oh, that makes more sense.

[470] Yeah.

[471] So I, we would play, you know, locally back then, and then we'd start doing like weekend tours.

[472] And then when it was time to like, okay, I'm going to stop going to school, the only deal I had to make was that whenever I wasn't on tour, I had to have a job.

[473] I couldn't just like sleep in all day.

[474] So there was a jamba juice right by our house and got a job there.

[475] Wow.

[476] And what led you to not keep pursuing the music?

[477] At a certain point, so while I was playing cards, or sorry, while I was playing music, actually, I turned the studio certain nights a week into a little poker room.

[478] So I'd have, like, friends over and we'd play cards at the house.

[479] But while I was touring, I eventually decided, because when I decided to stop going to school, I said to myself, If the music then it doesn't work, I'm going to go to sushi school.

[480] So the music thing did work, and a couple years went by, and actually my godmother owned a catering company.

[481] And so in between tours, I didn't really want to keep working at like Jamba Juice or Starbucks or anything like that.

[482] And so I asked her if I could work for her.

[483] And so I invited her over to the house.

[484] I cooked dinner for her and she said well I'll introduce you to my chef and if my chef wants to hire you then you'll be hired and so I went to her catering company met the chef the first thing was like okay you're making family meal today and so I cooked for the whole staff and she said I'll hire you as a dishwasher oh Jesus was that because that was the only job they had available looking back at it I was offended and angry, but I didn't care because of what she said after that, which is you don't get to start being a cook.

[485] You have to start as a dishwasher so you can have respect for, you know, what it is that the dishwashers do.

[486] And she said, here's how this works.

[487] The faster you clean that dish pit, the more I'll teach you.

[488] So whenever that dish pits clean, you come and find me and I'll give you a task.

[489] But if there's ever any dishes, that's what you're doing.

[490] So it kind of gave me that bit of work ethic of like, all right, I'm going to work my way into that next position.

[491] That seems to be a theme with great restaurants.

[492] And when you talk to chefs, this work ethic theme, because it seems like when you, you know, you talk to people that have worked in restaurants, one of the things that they will almost unanimously discuss is the amount of hours and the grind and how difficult it is.

[493] Yeah.

[494] And that development of work ethic almost is like kind of a boot camp for chefs.

[495] It is.

[496] It's, I mean, it's not so much anymore.

[497] Laws have changed.

[498] Culture has changed.

[499] But it was your spending, like a 16 -hour day was not even a really long day.

[500] I dated a girl once who went to college for restaurant and hotel management and then she got a job at this restaurant and I remember I would go visit her and she was fucking miserable I mean miserable she couldn't believe the hours that she had to work but you have to love it yeah that's an industry you have to love well she just wanted a career you know she went to school she graduated from school and then she had this this job that was like And then she had this boyfriend who was a fuck -up, who was a comedian.

[501] So it was like very, very weird for her because, like, I had most of my day completely free.

[502] And she was working, you know, 14, 15 hours a day at least.

[503] Yeah.

[504] I mean, it's one of those things where if you really want to take food seriously and cooking seriously, you're going to have to, you know, make a lot of sacrifices.

[505] Yeah.

[506] Just the time.

[507] Mm -hmm.

[508] You're not there for birthdays, you're not there for anniversaries, you're not there for Valentine's Day for sure.

[509] Because you have to work.

[510] Because you have to work.

[511] Yeah.

[512] Yeah.

[513] Because someone has to cook at all those restaurants you go to.

[514] Yeah.

[515] Yeah, people listening, if you are thinking of going down this path, prepare yourself.

[516] Yeah, it's a fantastic path, but you have to understand what it's like.

[517] And I think the reason it worked for me, or the reason I loved it so much, is it really felt like being on tour.

[518] but I got to sleep in my own bed.

[519] How's it?

[520] Well, like playing music, you spend all day getting ready for the show that night.

[521] And there's something to getting to the restaurant and prepping all day, getting ready for the show that night.

[522] And so I feel like the camaraderie of being on it, like being in a crew is a lot like being in a band.

[523] The hours are a lot like being in a band.

[524] And the shenanigans.

[525] you know, after hours are a lot like being in a band.

[526] The boozing, something you're talking about?

[527] Yeah.

[528] That's the other thing that I learned from Bourdain.

[529] I didn't know how hard people partied.

[530] Yeah, I mean, when I was younger, there was a lot of nights you just don't go to sleep.

[531] You just get out of the restaurant at 1 .30 in the morning.

[532] You go to the bar, then you go somewhere else, then you go back and open the restaurant the next day.

[533] That doesn't seem good for you.

[534] No, it's terrible.

[535] I had to...

[536] That's where the Red Bull comes in?

[537] Well, no, I quit Red Bull earlier than that But thankfully I never got into drugs So it wasn't that But I would drink a lot And I actually had one time Where I finished service Took two steps and just collapsed Just hit the ground Whoa At the end of the day At the end of the day You pulled an all -nighter?

[538] I think two or three days in a row, yeah Oh Jesus But I was like 21 Two or three days of no sleep At 21 Yeah Maybe like a hour and a half sleep here and there.

[539] Jesus.

[540] But, yeah, I mean, when I, I, my first sous chef job, I was on the schedule.

[541] It said, next to my name, all seven days said O .P. C .L. Open to close.

[542] We did breakfast and we did dinner service.

[543] So I would open the restaurant at about 7 a .m. And I would leave around 132.

[544] So when you open the restaurant at 7 a .m., what time are you actually arriving?

[545] Man, this was, like, this was a long time ago, but I probably was getting there, I was probably getting there on 7, 645, 7.

[546] When I say open, I mean, I would get to the restaurant to open the door, not that we were like open to the public.

[547] So there was already prepping?

[548] Yeah, I'm trying to remember, because we were at this in this sort of like the restaurant was a lunch and dinner restaurant, but we served breakfast as like a commissary to like, it was like in a building complex.

[549] So I really wasn't responsible for breakfast.

[550] So there would be, I think there was people there before I would get there.

[551] Building, like an office building complex?

[552] Yeah.

[553] Yeah.

[554] So they would just grab something quick.

[555] Yeah.

[556] Yeah.

[557] Like, so I would get in there and the dishwasher would already like, he'd be making like ham and cheese sandwiches or something like that.

[558] But.

[559] And so you were there from 7 a .m. and then what time would you get out of there?

[560] Usually, I mean, probably one, 1 .30.

[561] And nowadays with labor, laws, you really couldn't schedule that, right?

[562] Well, I was on, I was on salary.

[563] Oh, interesting.

[564] But that salary would have to be, you know, 3x at this point.

[565] Yeah.

[566] Because now they've changed the rule a couple years ago.

[567] Salary is no longer a contract between you and I. Salaries have to fall into a certain, you have to qualify.

[568] So you can't just be like, oh, I'm going to not give you overtime by giving you a salary to have you work when I ask you to.

[569] Right.

[570] Now you have to pay everybody a specific dollar amount and they have to hold specific responsibilities in order to not accrue overtime.

[571] Yeah, I think that's good because I think there's a lot of employers that are abusive, but I also think there's something romantic about this story of you almost dying.

[572] You know what I mean?

[573] I mean, like, I do appreciate like long, hard work days.

[574] There's something to that Because, like, I hear that, and I know you got through it, and you became very successful, so I'm like, see, it works.

[575] Look, when I think Margarita and my first date was at that restaurant, and it was, I mean, people ask me all the time, how did you get her?

[576] And it's food.

[577] It has to be.

[578] That's hilarious.

[579] Well, you're a cool guy.

[580] Don't tell yourself short.

[581] Plus, you're kind of cute.

[582] Oh, appreciate it.

[583] Jamie?

[584] I'm top three in this room for sure.

[585] top three I'd say so but so because of that schedule I couldn't take her on a date and so I remember the very first date we had was at the restaurant I told her to show up at 1230 after I sent everybody home and I had spent all day secretly prepping a special menu and she showed up and I sat her in the dining room that like overlooked the kitchen and I would make a course bring it out to her sit down with her have a sip of wine and then go back in the kitchen make the next course Oh wow Yeah What did you think she did during the time Where you were in there cooking Well I told her to bring a friend with her Because I told her that I'm going to Otherwise she's there for 20 minutes In between each course That's well listen man That's a clever move Look it worked Yeah clearly Yeah That's interesting I would imagine that that's probably One of the most difficult Occupations to date in Yeah Yeah, I sacrificed a lot of relationships prior to that one.

[586] Yeah, I can only imagine.

[587] In that way, it's very similar to stand -up comedy, not in the work ethic part, because comedians are notoriously terrible at that.

[588] Yeah.

[589] But it's hard because, you know, you date a girl and they want a normal evening life.

[590] And you're like, I got to go do a set.

[591] And, you know, I had relationships where they're like, you don't have to.

[592] and that was like the record skipping in the room like yes I do yeah yes I do because I have friends who've had relationships where the girl said you don't have to and they listened and I saw what happened they eventually fell off the radar and then vanished and stopped being a comic and then they would come to the comedy club you know like seven years removed like hey I'm thinking about getting back into it and everybody look at you like you said I have AIDS like they just backed away from you like not even AIDS because AIDS is not like it's like I have COVID sure like I'm right now filled with bugs that I could spread on you like we wanted to run away from them we didn't whatever they have maybe it's contagious like you quit you quit the greatest fucking job on earth and now you want to get back in just get back in don't tell us you're thinking about getting back in fucking get back in well I think it has to do with with communication and I think that's what a good relationship is built on and when we started our relationship it was like I was like this is what I'm doing yeah and at her you know at that time in her life she's like this is what I'm doing and we made it we made an agreement that our careers would always come first and uh you know luckily our careers you know overlapped um and for the last 13 years we've worked together that's awesome yeah that's very cool and it's very cool that it works and you guys still get a lot long so great even though you're in this like highly stressful like very strenuous sort of an environment well i think it again it's because we've we we have boundaries and we have rules for like this is this is where so like if we're sitting at home having dinner or fred at a restaurant uh you know for her birthday and there's a call from one of our restaurants or we have something like that always comes first and so there's never been a there's never really been an issue where it's like jealousy because one of us has to do what we have to do because that's what we do.

[593] How hard is it for you to go to restaurants?

[594] Really easy.

[595] Are you judgy?

[596] No. No. You're not?

[597] No. I can appreciate I can't.

[598] I appreciate food.

[599] I love food.

[600] Food's like my favorite thing.

[601] That's why I got into this.

[602] But I do think that there are times when I eat something and it really comes down to only one time and it's its value, is, you know, is what I'm eating worth what I'm paying for it?

[603] Mm. Because here's a thing.

[604] If I go and spend $500 on dinner, it should be at a certain level.

[605] Right.

[606] You're asking to be, not judged, but you're asking to be held to a standard, right?

[607] Yeah.

[608] If we're, you know, if we're at, you know, Jamie takes us some spot to go get some, you know, bacon wrapped hot dogs, I can just appreciate it.

[609] It's not supposed to be life -changing.

[610] Right.

[611] Right, right, right.

[612] No, yeah.

[613] I mean, that was always the case with like street food, right?

[614] Like street food is delicious, but it's unpretentious.

[615] Food doesn't have to be pretentious.

[616] I mean, look, one of my favorite things to make is a cheeseburger.

[617] Yeah, no, I know.

[618] Yeah, I need to try your cheeseburgers.

[619] I've heard legendary status from the people at Vulcan.

[620] They're good.

[621] When you set up out there.

[622] Yeah, they're good.

[623] Well, that's that, what happened?

[624] How did that happen?

[625] How did like this smash burger?

[626] thing come into prominence because all of a sudden with I'm in my view within the last like five or six years like smash burgers became a thing I'll be honest I wasn't really paying attention but all of a sudden yeah I mean it's really good I mean if you look at in and out right yeah they're essentially making a smash burger they're not physically smashing the burger but they're making a really really thin paddy right so the only difference like if you're going to ask me what's the difference between in an out burger and a smash burger and an out burger starts as a thin patty and a smash burger ends up as a thin patty a smash burger starts as a ball which you physically smash yeah um but i think just that style of like backyard pool party barbecue california um i mean that's like the burgers that that we make right now uh for these smash burgers it just i'm trying to make like a a backyard dad burger.

[627] They're delicious.

[628] Yeah, no, I've heard.

[629] You know, you're the one that turned me on to Golden Tiger, which is one of my favorite spots in Austin.

[630] It was one of the first spots that we found when we got here that was open, late, and fucking good.

[631] Yeah.

[632] And I started eating it like four nights a week.

[633] That's not good.

[634] It's not good.

[635] It's not good at all.

[636] But I did.

[637] It was one of those things that, like, I was telling everyone I could because it was that good.

[638] One of the things that it's cool being friends with chefs is they know the spots.

[639] Like, what other good late -night spots are there in Austin?

[640] So our go -to late nights would be Golden Tiger, for sure.

[641] We'd go to a place called Halal Time.

[642] Have you been there yet?

[643] No. It's on 6th Street, E -6th.

[644] It is, like, got to be one of the best Euros.

[645] ever real it's so fucking good real yeah um I'm trying to think what else we would do late night what about pizza what's the best pizza spot in this town I'm torn between two love Supreme which if you haven't been to you have to go I have not been to very very good and dough boys dough boys yeah and love Supreme yeah love Supreme sounds better they're different they're different styles but they're both really really good kind of what is love supreme um i don't even know how to describe the styles um so uh love supreme is a little bit more like are you pulling it up oh boy that looks fucking good yeah love supreme is like uh it's it's more of a restaurant it's like a great family style place that you would go with the kids and have like just a really good like restaurant pizza doughboys is a little truck i'm writing this down yeah I got to put this in the phone because I'm always looking for like a best pizza spot in town.

[646] It's very good.

[647] Full disclosure, the chef there, Russell, is he and I go way back.

[648] Well, I don't think you would lie.

[649] No. You have to have a full disclosure.

[650] That one's fucking good.

[651] Now, is love, is that doughboys?

[652] Now, how important is Woodfire?

[653] to a pizza or in general to a pizza because it's always like a thing I think you can that goddamn doughboys that pepperon that looks really I'd uh you get into that fuck sushi right oh yeah you're all about that Jamie's all about dough boys pepperon I've been looking for a good pizza place that looks fucking bomb diggity yeah I mean dough boys is in the back of meanwhile brewery so they've got some great beers and that's a cool place just go kind of hang out on a picnic bench I'm sorry what's the name of the place meanwhile brewery Meanwhile brewery Yeah Click on that pizza Right to the left of that one man With the little veggies on it We'll drop down Yeah look at that Yeah I mean I'm on this Animal -based diet For all of January So all I'm eating All January is meat And a little bit of fruit And so I see pizza And it calls to me Yeah You know Like that's what I'm doing February 1st I'm gonna fuck up a pizza Call me I'll go with you Okay let's do it bro Yeah What's that Jamie All pizza February Maybe.

[654] All beads of favorites.

[655] See how fat I get.

[656] I will look like a beach ball.

[657] My face will...

[658] Dirty ball.

[659] My face will go like this.

[660] My stomach will distend.

[661] It will be a real issue.

[662] How's that going with that?

[663] Great.

[664] Yeah?

[665] I added fruit this year, and it changed everything.

[666] First of all, it stopped the diarrhea in his tracks, which is...

[667] Before when I've done nothing but meat, it's...

[668] I don't know what it is.

[669] It just gives you ferocious diarrhea, like oil -spill diarrhea.

[670] like somebody broke a pipeline not good ma 'am maybe that's how you lose weight i don't know yeah um no i don't think that's how you lose i don't think that's wise uh i think you're just losing weight from the lack of calories i mean it's a pretty simple equation right but for me um one of things that comes with eating this is i i'm eliminating all the bullshit right i'm eliminating a lot of the processed foods and sugar and that's really what's wrong about most people's diet it's uh it's overconsumption which i'm a massive i i have a giant problem with eating too much like for instance i went to golden tiger and i ordered three cheeseburgers and a tie chicken sandwich i ate three double cheeseburgers by the way and a Thai chicken sandwich and people like what the fuck are you doing and i'm like i'm hungry that's a lot i eat a lot of food man it's a real problem but i work out a lot yeah but because i work out a lot I get really hungry and then by the time I get to somewhere to eat I'm like frantic hungry See I can see that because I just recently started like working out getting in shape and notice the Whoop you got the whoop strap rocked I do I do yeah it's uh changed my life really um but I've noticed that now that I'm like running a lot and exercising a lot I get way hungrier oh yeah for sure and I lose weight even though I eat more yeah well you know your body has requirements when you're working out yeah you know it's just sustenance when you're you're not working out, but when you're working out, your body's like, get me some fucking protein, let's go.

[671] Yeah.

[672] Because, you know, your body recognizes you're breaking down all this tissue and you, I mean, that's the process of exercise.

[673] It's the breaking down, the building back up stronger.

[674] And it's like this, you got to do it right.

[675] So many people start off too hard, you know, like when someone has not worked out at all before, I always say, listen, all you have to do is go walk around the block and do some pushups and some jumping jacks and then build from there.

[676] You don't have to go crazy.

[677] Like, let your body get accustomed to this whole idea of exercise.

[678] Don't just go bananas, because you won't be able to sustain it, and you'll get upset.

[679] And don't work out with a friend who goes to CrossFit.

[680] Don't have some fucking fitness fanatic friend who's like, try to do this wad.

[681] We're going to do a wad today.

[682] And you're doing burpees and throwing fucking kettlebells over your head.

[683] You're not going to do it.

[684] Yeah, no, that's, I've pretty much just done, been running, really.

[685] That's great.

[686] Yeah, I'm up to doing about five miles a day every day.

[687] Nice.

[688] Yeah.

[689] That's great.

[690] I just get on.

[691] I hit the five mile an hour button.

[692] I do one hour.

[693] So you weren't doing anything before?

[694] No, I work so much.

[695] Hmm.

[696] So I was doing nothing.

[697] And I went from having such an active, like, childhood of, like, drumming seven days a week.

[698] And back then, I'd need three double doubles, you know, just to keep my weight on.

[699] And to just working so much.

[700] I'm on my feet all day, but I'm not sweating all day.

[701] You're not exerting high heart rate.

[702] And so I was having trouble sleeping, and actually a buddy of mine got me on to the whoop.

[703] And then I had a couple conversations with you about just like trying to feel better.

[704] And I really started like, I started off really slow and I sort of got into it.

[705] And then I went to the doctor.

[706] just to get a physical, and I found out that I have like, or I had scary high cholesterol.

[707] They were like, you know, you're, you're, they told me I'm pre -diabetic and I'm at, you know, I'm at risk of having a heart attack within the next couple of years, and, uh, I need to do something.

[708] And so I did, you know, did a little bit of research on my own.

[709] And one of the things was like getting yourself into, I think it's 70 to 80 % of your max heart rate for over 30 minutes.

[710] And so I completely changed my diet.

[711] I changed like just my lifestyle.

[712] So every day I'm running and eating differently and I've lost about 30 pounds and I've dropped about 70 points of my cholesterol.

[713] That's fantastic.

[714] Yeah.

[715] Did you change, how much did you change your diet at all?

[716] Completely.

[717] Yeah?

[718] Yeah.

[719] What did you change?

[720] What was the big thing?

[721] Well, I've cut out entirely dairy and red meat.

[722] No red meat.

[723] No red meat.

[724] Well, that's not, I know it's not true.

[725] I know it's not true.

[726] You sent me a video.

[727] You're cooking a red stag.

[728] You lying, son of a bitch.

[729] Jesus.

[730] No saturated fat.

[731] No meat with high saturated fats.

[732] So I was eating a lot of, like, I mean, just because I have access to it, I was eating a lot of wagyu beef.

[733] I was eating a lot of foie gras.

[734] I was eating a lot of, you know, rib -eyes.

[735] If I was hungry, I'd eat, you know, salamis.

[736] And I've just sort of transitioned that out for, now from hungry I eat nuts.

[737] eating a lot of like turkey and chicken turns out sushi is actually really good for battling high LDL cholesterol.

[738] Really?

[739] Yeah.

[740] So I've eaten always eat a ton of sushi but eating a lot of fish I never really ate a lot of like I don't eat I don't eat candies I don't eat a lot of sugars I don't drink soda so I didn't have to change any of that I don't eat a lot of breads how much you attribute what the change is to your diet and how much do you attribute it to the increase in exercise?

[741] I think that hitting it from both ends, like when I went back from my first checkup with the doctor, she was expecting to see like maybe 20 points drop off, and I dropped off 70.

[742] Oh, wow.

[743] So I think it was hitting it from both ends.

[744] Yeah, I got my blood work done, and my doctor asked me if I'm on medication, low cholesterol medication.

[745] I said I eat mostly meat.

[746] Yeah.

[747] And they were like, what?

[748] Like, how's that, what's going on?

[749] Yeah, I think I was so far over that I was like, I have to just stop cold turkey, have to reset my body, and then I'm, like, I definitely plan on returning to eating steaks.

[750] Well, what I was going to get to is I think it's literally a matter of what, you know, we all want to think of this one -size -fits -all dietary approach.

[751] We want to think about that with everything, really, but it doesn't work that way.

[752] There's people that require so much more of their body that they need a different kind of fuel source.

[753] They need more fuel.

[754] They need in a different way.

[755] And I think that a person that is on their feet all day like you are working as a chef, there's a requirement.

[756] It's probably pretty high, like a caloric requirement, but there's also not an exertion.

[757] So like you have like this steady.

[758] you're using up calories all day long but you're never ramping up your heart rate you're never like pushing your body so it's it's got to be weird for your body body's like what is this motherfucker doing like why are we awake all day and why are we like just standing up yeah it's um I definitely I have so much more energy now um sure yeah it's it's quite remarkable now I mean like you pointed out the whoop I'm legitimately obsessed I wake up every day and the first thing I check your recovery every day and I I also try as much as I can every day to get my strain exactly where so when I look at the little graph my strain and my recovery like match up interesting now what about supplements are you doing anything to supplement your diet with nutrients I take a bunch of vitamins and stuff in the morning but no specific supplements because I am you know I'm still eating I'm still eating I'm still eating I'm still eating protein every night I'm either eating you know I'm either eating fish or turkey or chicken or something but that's what I mean by vitamins I mean by supplements I mean vitamins like you just just normal stuff like multivitamins fish oil like what yeah so my morning regimen is I take like a about a probably about probably about one ounce of apple cider vinegar in a tall glass of water and then a little shot of elderberry syrup and then a a mold multivitamin, and then a...

[759] What about food?

[760] What about food?

[761] Are you eating this with food?

[762] No. That's a problem.

[763] You need fat and you need some sort of carbohydrate to bind with the vitamins.

[764] When you're taking vitamins and you're not taking vitamins with any food, your body's like, what is this?

[765] Your body has no idea what it is.

[766] Your body's super confused and probably he's going to piss most of it out.

[767] If you want to get maximum absorption of your vitamins, you must take it with food.

[768] All right.

[769] Yeah, because otherwise, why would you have these vitamins?

[770] Like, your body doesn't understand that.

[771] Your body understands vitamins in the context of something else.

[772] Fiber, fat, carbohydrates.

[773] Your body doesn't understand, like, a fistful of vitamins and water.

[774] It's like, what is this bullshit?

[775] Vitamins are supposed to be bound to nutrients or to food.

[776] So, like, in the future.

[777] All right.

[778] Well, I'll start tomorrow.

[779] Yeah, you got to take it with food.

[780] Yeah, I have not taken vitamins today.

[781] at all because I haven't eaten today.

[782] I work out most of the time fasted.

[783] And I, you know, the one thing that I will have, though, is I'll have vitamins that come with liquid IV.

[784] Liquid IV is a supplement that I take.

[785] I just poured into a jug of water.

[786] I've been obsessed with it for a while.

[787] It's great stuff.

[788] Yeah.

[789] But it has glucose in it.

[790] So there's some absorption of vitamins that goes along with it.

[791] And they've got this down to a science the way they do it.

[792] But when I take actual supplements, my supplements are always with food.

[793] And you should do that too.

[794] Everyone should do that.

[795] If you're taking vitamins without food, the amount of absorption you get is very minimal.

[796] Interesting.

[797] Okay.

[798] Cool.

[799] Yeah.

[800] The only way you could bypass that is IVs.

[801] You could do IV vitamin drips.

[802] Yeah, I don't want to do that.

[803] But you're going, it's great.

[804] It's really great.

[805] It's about one of the best ways to get like, if you're sick, I highly recommend it.

[806] If you ever get like a really bad cold, high dose vitamin C, D, zinc, glutathlethymed.

[807] Thyone, ivy drips are fantastic.

[808] It's really, because it'll go, it's going right into your bloodstream.

[809] It's bypasses, you know, your stomach, your liver, all that jazz.

[810] It's going right into the system.

[811] Interesting.

[812] Yeah.

[813] So all that vitamins you're taking, being all that healthy.

[814] I mean, you're probably getting a little bit of carbohydrates with the elderberry syrup.

[815] There's something in there.

[816] And then what else?

[817] I'm doing, taking a zinc and omega -3.

[818] If you take a zinc, you should take a zinc with an ion.

[819] ionophore.

[820] Ionophores are things like coercetin.

[821] There's some other stuff too.

[822] I think that works in a similar way.

[823] I think curcumin works in a similar way, which is one element of turmeric and what you're going to, or vice versa.

[824] But what you're going to, when an ionophore is it helps the ions get directly into the cells.

[825] So zinc is notoriously difficult for people to just take as a supplement and have it absorbed into your cells.

[826] So they recommend taking.

[827] it with coarsitin.

[828] All right.

[829] We'll have to have this afterwards.

[830] We'll take notes on it.

[831] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[832] By the way, I'm just getting this from doctors, too.

[833] It's not like, you know, I didn't know all this.

[834] No, but it's, yeah, I appreciate it because that's the thing is this whole little journey for me has been, you know, kind of a little bit of trial and error.

[835] And how long has this been going on now?

[836] Since I found, since I, I mean, finding out the cholesterol thing was like really a big motivator.

[837] So probably about three months.

[838] That's amazing.

[839] So three months, you're up to a five mile a day journey.

[840] That's really great.

[841] The thing about a treadmill, a lot of people don't like, oh, I'd rather run outside.

[842] Me too, sure, absolutely.

[843] When I live in California, I always, because it was hills.

[844] There's not a lot of hills on here.

[845] But the thing about a treadmill is you could do other shit.

[846] Yeah.

[847] You watch a fucking movie.

[848] And that's been my thing is I'll put on a podcast or if I get into a new series, I'll just watch a one -hour episode while I'm running.

[849] Amazing.

[850] And, no, it's been, You know, I tried running outside.

[851] That's how I started first is like I was walking around.

[852] We have this little loop by our house, so I would walk it.

[853] And then after a couple weeks, I was like, you know, I'm going to walk it twice.

[854] And then it was like, I'm going to jog it.

[855] And then I tried running it.

[856] And then my knees and my back and everything just hurts so bad.

[857] And then I was like, but I really want to.

[858] So I got a treadmill.

[859] Do you know how to run correctly?

[860] I do now.

[861] Has that what was messing your knees up?

[862] Were you heel striking?

[863] I don't know what you call it, but the worst pain I got from running is so I, once I like mastered the five mile an hour thing, I tried pushing myself one day and I was doing, I think I did, I tried to do the full hour at six and a half miles and my neck and my shoulders and my like upper back were in like excruciating pain and I googled, you know, what that's from and it's just from literally running with like your shoulders up.

[864] So when I was like trying to run, faster my shoulders would would slowly creep up and what it explained is that each run is a single rep so you're doing thousands and thousands of reps with bad form and you're just wrecking yourself so um it showed me some like foam roller thing like how to like you know fix that and it did um like fix my my back and my neck and then now i just pracked like as i'm running i am consciously putting my shoulders back and down as i'm running trying to really Yeah.

[865] In good form.

[866] Are you landing on the ball your feet?

[867] Probably.

[868] Yeah.

[869] I'm like doing that on the floor and I don't know.

[870] You should be cognizant of that.

[871] It's really a fascinating thing that happened.

[872] But Nike, I believe it was Nike, came out with the very first running shoe with a fat heel.

[873] And in doing so, they encourage people to heel strike.

[874] They encourage people to run and land on your heel.

[875] offered you this big cushion.

[876] But in doing that, they completely changed like hundreds of thousands of years of biomechanics of people walking and running.

[877] Because you're not supposed to land on your heel like that.

[878] I mean, you can a little bit, but you're not supposed to do that consistently and constantly.

[879] Yeah, I'm definitely not running like this.

[880] Yeah.

[881] But I don't think I keep, I don't think my heel like stays up the whole time.

[882] Well, if you look at like a pair of running shoes, the heels are always big and fat, and then it narrows down towards the front.

[883] which would encourage you to run and land on the heel because that's where all the cushion is.

[884] And they fucked so many people's feet up and knees up and everything from doing that.

[885] It's really like you talk to like people that are experts in biomechanics and people that are experts in running.

[886] They're like, this is the worst fucking thing you could do.

[887] Like you're supposed to, your foot is a natural decelerator.

[888] Like when you're landing on the ball of your foot, your foot slowly lets itself down with the muscles of your calf and your lower leg, and that's how you're supposed to land.

[889] Like, you put a built -in shock absorber.

[890] It's really amazing design.

[891] And Nike's like, eh, let's use foam.

[892] Let's just fucking land on the heel where there's no give at all and use foam.

[893] And a lot of people jacked up their knees, especially people that weren't conditioned to it.

[894] And then they say, you know, that's the thing that people do.

[895] Like, I was saying about someone, if you don't exercise at all and you go with a friend to CrossFit, like, no, you have to build up to something like that.

[896] You want to do some shit like that?

[897] You've got to get your tissue prepared, like slowly over time, build your tendons, strengthen, your muscle strength, and your endurance so that you don't drop a weight on your head.

[898] Like, all that stuff is like, you've got to do it slowly.

[899] But when someone would get, like, a pair of running shoes, like, I'm going to run a marathon.

[900] You hurt yourself.

[901] Oh, my God, you could hurt yourself.

[902] You could definitely hurt yourself.

[903] Yeah, no, I got these shoes that are, you know, there's some sort of, you know, Scandinavian design that's supposed to, like, accelerate you or something like that and works.

[904] I used to run with toe shoes, those flat -ass, you know, those vibrams, there's no cushion at all.

[905] And doing the research about how to, like what I was doing wrong, it said that you should have the most uncomfortable shoes.

[906] Like, the more you can pretty much replicate running on just your bare feet is the better your form will be and the better runner you'll become.

[907] It helped me. It really running with those barefoot shoes.

[908] And I went from those to some other kind because what the problem was I was running on trails.

[909] And so there was a lot of rocks.

[910] And, like, I would just occasionally, like, step on a rock.

[911] And you can actually injure your foot because, you know, some of them, they're pokey.

[912] And so then I switched to more of a minimalist shoe, but still a flat, you know, wide toebox shoe that allows your feet to articulate.

[913] The way it was described, I forget who described it this way, but they said, essentially, when you look at most shoes, they are like a cast.

[914] And that is not how your foot is supposed to behave.

[915] And when you put your arm in a cast, what happens?

[916] It atrophies.

[917] Yeah.

[918] And that's the thing with your foot.

[919] You put your foot in this cast, and your foot doesn't get to utilize all of the muscles that surround the bones and stabilize the foot.

[920] Interesting.

[921] Yeah.

[922] Makes sense.

[923] Yeah.

[924] It does make sense.

[925] Well, one of the things that was shocking to me, I started doing yoga a few years ago, many, many years ago now.

[926] But when I first started doing yoga, the first thing that would hurt was my feet.

[927] I was like, this is great.

[928] Like, why are my feet hurt?

[929] Because I'm a martial artist, so I'm used to, like, kickboxing and moving around.

[930] But I was used to a very specific kind of movement on my feet.

[931] But, like, this static holding a pose and using your foot to kind of balance and stabilize you, I was utilizing all these muscles in my foot that were not strong.

[932] Because I was just used to these explosive movements back and forth.

[933] Whereas yoga, like, if you're standing there and you got your one foot up in the air like this, and your foot is balancing everything.

[934] It's like all the stabilizing muscles were very weak.

[935] It took a while to get accustomed to that.

[936] Yeah, my wife was into yoga for a long time.

[937] I've tried it a few times.

[938] I actually want to get into it now.

[939] Well, we're putting a yoga studio, a private yoga studio, right next door.

[940] Really?

[941] Yeah, we've got a gym that we're building, and one of the things we're building in the gym is a yoga room.

[942] So, come on down, bro.

[943] Come on down, we're going to take you through some classes.

[944] but my message to people that like are in your sort of situation or not your situation now but your situation back then we're like how do I get started like please go slow yeah just go slow well we don't have to get crazy when I first started because Margarita she's been she's been active and she's been exercising she wakes up every morning at like five six o 'clock in the morning for the the duration of our entire relationship she's been getting up super early, exercising, running, doing yoga.

[945] When you're sleeping in?

[946] No, not at all.

[947] You never felt guilty?

[948] She's out there running.

[949] You're like, not at all.

[950] I feel great about it.

[951] I felt great.

[952] I felt great about it.

[953] But when I first, you know, I think it was like March of last year, I was like, all right, because I've been talking about like, okay, I'm going to get in shape for years.

[954] Because I was always in shape.

[955] And then all of a sudden, I just looked down one day.

[956] like I weigh 30 pounds more than I am supposed to.

[957] And when I first started, I was like, all right, I'm going to start today.

[958] And I did like, I think it was like 20 jumping jacks, like three pushups and like 10 sit -ups.

[959] And she's like, that's it?

[960] And I was like, yes.

[961] She's like, that's not a workout.

[962] And I was like, if I hurt myself and I go too fast, I'm going to stop.

[963] So I'm going to do whatever is easy for me until it becomes boring easy.

[964] And then I'm just going to keep adding on a little bit.

[965] That's smart that you had that systematic approach.

[966] Like, how did you figure that out?

[967] Because that's kind of the key to anything in life.

[968] If you hurt yourself on it, then you don't want to do it again.

[969] Yeah.

[970] If you burn yourself on it, you don't want to keep doing it.

[971] So it's like, and you want to do things you're good at.

[972] So do the amount that you know you can kill.

[973] And then when that becomes just like boring easy, make it a little bit harder.

[974] You know, it's the thing, like, everybody wants to just run at it.

[975] Like, and just get, especially when you realize you've got an issue, everybody.

[976] but it just wants to just, okay, I'm going to resolve that, and the way I'm going to do, I'm just going to push really hard.

[977] I'm going to, but it's not sustainable, and you won't.

[978] I've always been that guy, but you always hurt yourself.

[979] You always, you know, and it's just not the right way to do it.

[980] Yeah.

[981] It's very wise of you.

[982] That's interesting.

[983] Because most people don't, and most people start out, and they'll do something difficult, then they'll be really sore the next day, and then maybe they'll take a day off, and then they'll do half -assed the day after that, because they don't want to be a sore, and then they quit.

[984] Yeah.

[985] Or something along those lines.

[986] And if you hurt yourself that bad, you're like, fuck, why would I ever do that?

[987] It hurts so bad.

[988] Yeah, I wish it was more common, you know.

[989] I really do.

[990] When I look at the obesity rates in this country, and I look at the amount of people that are living these essentially constant sedentary lifestyle, like this, they're never doing anything physical.

[991] That's like a giant percentage of our population, and they're very insecure about it.

[992] you know and because of that they don't want you to fat shame and they're this body positivity nonsense like that's crazy it's all crazy it's all it's you're you're missing the point you're supposed to feel uncomfortable the whole idea about being fat and the reason why you're upset that people point out that you're fat is because you're supposed to do something about it you're supposed to feel bad when someone points something out about you being fat if it's true it's supposed to feel like shit and it sucks that it feels like shit, but that, in turn, is supposed to motivate you to do something about it.

[993] You know, I think whatever it takes to motivate yourself, I mean, it's interesting because you also could fall victim of not living a sedentary lifestyle and being on your feet 15 hours a day and still being incredibly out of shape.

[994] Especially if your diet's bad.

[995] Yeah.

[996] Yeah.

[997] Well, when it's full of booze and, you know, cheeseburger's at 2 o 'clock in the morning.

[998] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[999] Yeah, the comedian lifestyle and the chef lifestyle in that sense, probably very similar.

[1000] Now, when you did this change, did you just immediately cut all that stuff out of your diet?

[1001] Or did you, like, sort of slowly do that as well as the exercise thing?

[1002] I'm a cold turkey guy, and I know that about myself.

[1003] And I'm, you know, I haven't even had a slice of steak.

[1004] I can't.

[1005] I'm like an alcoholic with food.

[1006] If I take that one bite, I'll start eating it again.

[1007] Where did that term cold turkey come from?

[1008] I don't know.

[1009] We all know what it is.

[1010] Yeah.

[1011] But we don't think of it as turkey.

[1012] No, I have no idea where it came from.

[1013] What is that?

[1014] We'll find that shortly.

[1015] It's a weird term, right?

[1016] It's not cold spinach.

[1017] No, I wonder if it's like...

[1018] Do vegans use the term cold turkey?

[1019] It doesn't hurt anybody.

[1020] I quit meat.

[1021] Cold turkey.

[1022] That sounds weird.

[1023] Could be, you know?

[1024] Well, it depends what the origination is.

[1025] Right, but if you're like, how do I get into veganism?

[1026] Well, I quit meat, cold turkey.

[1027] You could just say I quit cold turkey.

[1028] Yeah, but if you say I quit cold turkey, what is...

[1029] Then you stopped eating cold turkey.

[1030] Mary and Webster doesn't even have a real answer.

[1031] They just have theories.

[1032] Oh, what's their theories?

[1033] Eh.

[1034] They suck?

[1035] They're, okay.

[1036] You can check out.

[1037] But why turkey?

[1038] Why cold?

[1039] Hmm.

[1040] But why turkey and why cold?

[1041] The most popular theory was repeated in San Francisco Chronicle, Chronicle, Columnist, Herb C -A -E -N, C -A -E -N, in 1978, it derives from the hideous combination of goose pimples and what William Burroughs calls the cold burn that addicts suffer when they kick the habit.

[1042] Oh, interesting.

[1043] So it would be like, for example, if you just cut out doing drugs and you got like in something happened to your skin.

[1044] Yeah, but here's the thing.

[1045] It says the problem with both these theories that they ignore the use of cold turkey before its application of drug addiction.

[1046] In a cartoon that appeared in newspapers in November 12th of 1920, Ace Slangman Thomas Tad Dorgan used cold turkey this way.

[1047] Now, tell me on the square.

[1048] Can I get by this for the wedding?

[1049] Don't string me. Tell me cold turkey.

[1050] Wow.

[1051] Boy, people talk weird in the 20.

[1052] The fuck is wrong with these people.

[1053] The editors of the historical dictionary of American slang have found an earlier usage, a 1910 usage, where the speaker locked.

[1054] $5 ,000 cold turkey in the sense of losing it outright.

[1055] Huh.

[1056] Huh.

[1057] Cold being straightforward a matter of fact and the earlier talk turkey.

[1058] Oh right, like talk turkey.

[1059] Like you jive turkey.

[1060] That was a thing like people would call people a jive turkey, right?

[1061] Isn't that weird?

[1062] You jive ass turkey.

[1063] I'm gonna start bringing that back.

[1064] Drive ass turkey, Jamie.

[1065] Fucking jive ass turkey.

[1066] What if it's...

[1067] I bear you.

[1068] What's strange thing to call someone a jive turkey?

[1069] What is jive even?

[1070] What does that even mean?

[1071] What's Google jive, right?

[1072] Jive -ass turkey.

[1073] Yeah, I wouldn't even, I've never thought about that.

[1074] I don't know.

[1075] I don't know what that means.

[1076] Unreliable.

[1077] Oh, unreligable.

[1078] Or empty promises.

[1079] Oh, you empty promise in turkey.

[1080] Unreliable turkey.

[1081] Turkey's a strange food because it's not that good.

[1082] It can be.

[1083] It's okay.

[1084] It can be good.

[1085] It's all right.

[1086] It's not like venison.

[1087] It's not like a rib -eye.

[1088] It's not.

[1089] No, but you can make it really good.

[1090] You can make it pretty good.

[1091] It can be pretty good.

[1092] Let's be honest.

[1093] There's a reason why it's not on most menus.

[1094] Yeah, it's not as easy to make as good as a rib -eye.

[1095] You can't.

[1096] It's not possible.

[1097] Well, a rib -eye you have to just not fuck up.

[1098] A ribeye, or a turkey, you have to actually cook with finesse.

[1099] What do you do?

[1100] Like if you're doing a Thanksgiving turkey, are you a boil and peanut oil guy?

[1101] No, no, no. So I did Thanksgiving turkey this year.

[1102] Ah.

[1103] And so what I did is it's similar to what I do for my whole pigs.

[1104] And I took, just did in a big trash bag overnight the day before.

[1105] I take lemons, limes, oranges, both the zest and the juices, melted butter.

[1106] When you say the zest and the juices, melted butter.

[1107] you mean like you take like a microplane and yeah you grate just great the outside the skin a bunch of chopped onions a bunch of herbs and i basically like put like rub it all on inside outside everything um tie it up put it in a cooler leave it out at room temperature overnight room temperature yeah why uh because so when you cook something you want the internal temperature to cook at the same uh uh rate as the external temperature to cook at the same uh uh rate as the external temperature That's why people cook suvite, right?

[1108] Sure.

[1109] And if you just take a turkey out of the fridge and you put it in the oven, or you leave it out for an hour and put in the oven, it's still ice cold in the interior.

[1110] How long does it take for a turkey to get to room temperature?

[1111] I'm gonna, I mean, probably overnight.

[1112] I mean, it's not even completely, and here's a thing.

[1113] Once it gets to room temperature, even according to the health department, you have four hours.

[1114] But you have a lot longer than that.

[1115] So what you're doing is just making, taking into account the fact that it's been refrigerated.

[1116] Yeah, so I'm removing the refrigeration from it.

[1117] Right, right.

[1118] So that when I put it in the oven, it immediately starts cooking from the inside out, not from the outside in.

[1119] Right, right.

[1120] So, like, you know, everyone's seen that like the quintessential steak where it's the slice and it's like, well done, medium well, medium, medium, rare, and then rare, and then rare right in the center.

[1121] And I'm like, that's a terrible steak.

[1122] If you order a medium rare, you don't want 10 % of it to be medium rare.

[1123] it should be medium rear top to bottom some people like that though i've talked to people that like like a nice crispy sort of a crust on the outside but you can get a crust on the outside and still retain what we call a gradient a very low gradient so you have what i was going to say is some people like the rare on the inside but like the combination of those two textures like the seer on the outside but a rare on the inside no and that's not what i'm saying you can achieve that But that if you want it to be that rare, then, so if you've got a piece of meat like this, right?

[1124] And here's your cut.

[1125] Visually, for people that are listening, rather.

[1126] Yeah.

[1127] So top to bottom, right?

[1128] You're going to have your crust on the top and the bottom.

[1129] And when you cut it, the very center is what would be the least cooked, right?

[1130] Because the ambient temperature is coming from the exterior.

[1131] Unless you suvete it.

[1132] But there are ways to cook it so that the internal temperature from center to call it sear or crust is the same temperature.

[1133] So if you want a rare steak, you can still get a nice crust on the outside, the exterior, and still have a properly cooked interior.

[1134] Do you think that a steak that's cooked like sous -V style, like say if you wanted it to an internal of, say, 130, 135 degrees?

[1135] What do you like for an internal of a steak?

[1136] Temperature -wise?

[1137] Yeah, temperature -wise.

[1138] I don't go off temperature.

[1139] You don't?

[1140] If you had a guess, like, what do you think would be?

[1141] If you're going to suvee a steak, what would you put it at?

[1142] I wouldn't Okay But if you were going to A rib eye Yeah Well let me ask you this When it comes out of the suvia Am I slicing it needing it Am I resting it and then grilling it What am I doing with it?

[1143] I don't know I mean that's what I was going to get to Some people like to blow torso The outside of it They like to get it to an internal I'm not saying this is correct Obviously But they like to get it to an internal of like 125 or 130, whatever they like, and then they blow towards the outside of it.

[1144] I have seen chefs do this before.

[1145] What is wrong with that process?

[1146] There's nothing wrong with it.

[1147] It's just different.

[1148] Why do you not like it that way?

[1149] Well, I mean, so scratch bar and kitchen, which is the first restaurant, Marguerite and I opened, in 2013, we have a, I think it's 11 -foot -wide, big fireplace hearth.

[1150] And that's where we cook everything.

[1151] And so for the past, you know, almost decade, we've just cooked with fire.

[1152] And I do use blow torches for specific things.

[1153] But typically, if I was going, like, if you're going to ask me what's the best way to cook a steak, is it in a suave and finished with a blow torch?

[1154] The answer is absolutely not.

[1155] Is it a comparable way?

[1156] Sure.

[1157] especially if you're an apartment kitchen, right?

[1158] It all depends on what you have at your disposal.

[1159] If you don't have a big fireplace to cook it in, then that's going to be too difficult.

[1160] But I think to try to answer your question, at least, I'd probably go for something around 127 with the intent to rest it properly and then finish it on some sort of fire.

[1161] So if I have an actual live fire, then I would finish it in the flames.

[1162] And if you have no other way to sear it, then a blow torch, I guess, would do.

[1163] What about cast iron, like cast iron frying pan to cereal at the end?

[1164] Yeah, I mean, I personally don't like suvied steaks.

[1165] I don't like the texture that it achieves.

[1166] What is different about it?

[1167] It gives it, again, it can be done properly, but typically like when you order, if I order a steak at a restaurant and it is suvied, I'm going to go, oh, that's, they suvied this.

[1168] it just has a bit of like almost like rubberization that happens to me like you need to get the the actual proteins to a certain temperature to coagulate to actually like when everyone it was like oh bring me a ribeye like you know bloody that's not very good you need like you either need to eat it raw or you need to cook it enough where the proteins have coagulated enough that when you chew through it it snaps and you can chew through it You know, if you've ever had like a really undercooked ribeye, it's to become stringy.

[1169] You have an overcooked ribby, it's tough.

[1170] You have a properly cooked ribby, it's melt in your mouth.

[1171] And it's all about finding the correct temperature.

[1172] So each steak is going to, each cut is going to have a different temperature that you're trying to achieve.

[1173] No, are there any meats that are superior when you cook them in suave?

[1174] A short rib.

[1175] I think a short rib.

[1176] Why is that?

[1177] Because it's got all the collagen and all the other stuff.

[1178] Yeah, so typically, I mean, the most, the most, the most, classic way to cook a short rib is going to be brazed, right?

[1179] And when you're cooking it in the braise, it's releasing the fat into the brazing liquids, which you're going to turn into your sauce later.

[1180] But you're basically not bringing it to a boil, but you're cooking it inside of liquid.

[1181] You also can only cook it to a certain, you know, you cook it for a couple of hours.

[1182] But when you suvi it, we had actually went on the menu for quite a while.

[1183] And we would cook it for three days.

[1184] And we'd cook it at a low enough...

[1185] Three days.

[1186] Yeah, so we'd cook it at a low enough temperature that when you sliced into it, it was still pink.

[1187] So it was medium rare.

[1188] But all of that fat had completely not just broken down, but then it had been redistributed throughout the entire thing.

[1189] So when you sliced into it, it had the texture of almost like a rib eye in the sense that it held together.

[1190] It wasn't like a fall apart stew.

[1191] And what temperature were cooking at it for three days?

[1192] I can't remember.

[1193] That's written down somewhere.

[1194] I don't know.

[1195] No, how do you prefer to cook meat?

[1196] And you prefer fire?

[1197] Yeah, so the best way that I have found, and again, everything is different.

[1198] You know, at Scratch Bar, we just do a tasting menu.

[1199] That's the only option's a 25 -course tasting menu.

[1200] And what we would do is we use Japanese Wagyu, and when guests would arrive, and you'd arrive actually into another room where you'd have like welcome cocktails and canopays before you come into the kitchen for dinner, we would be notified when you came in, and immediately we would take your portion of meat out of the fridge, and we'd put it above the hearth, where it was about 90 degrees ambient temperature roughly, and it was getting a little bit of smoke, and then about four or five courses before your state course, which is probably about 45 minutes later, 45 minutes an hour later we would bring the piece out that was and presented to you so you could see it and it would be completely malleable that it was like it was shiny the fats had already started to render and we would explain that what we're going to do now we you know it's been sitting up here for the last hour now we're going to put it closer to the flames where it's about a hundred and 15 degrees ambient temperature but we're not going to cook it yet that'll be for the next two courses it'll sit there and then right before that course we would actually take the the steak and put it into the flame.

[1201] And what would happen is it would actually start to fry itself from the inside out.

[1202] Why from the inside out?

[1203] So the internal, the entire piece of meat had become about 118 degrees.

[1204] Just from sitting.

[1205] Just from being that close to the, just being in that environment.

[1206] And because the fat content of the Japanese Wagyu, it had so much fat all over it and inside of it that when it went into the flame and it heated up at such a high rate, it would actually cause all that fat to start to fry.

[1207] But isn't, isn't the outside still hotter than the inside?

[1208] Because you're...

[1209] Yeah, but the fat would conduct the heat and it would, I mean, technically probably the outs, I mean, yes, the exterior would also get a bit of a crust where the interior wouldn't because it actually touched the flame.

[1210] So how's it doing it from the inside out then?

[1211] So if it's, so if you've got the piece of meat, right, and you've got a there's just a flame here and you go into that flame that flame is going to touch the exterior right it's going to heat up it's going to touch the the that heat is going to transfer to the fat and that fat is going all the way through the piece of me so it's actually like the interior uh fat is going to be up to a certain temperature that will cause it to fry so when we pull it out of the flame it's actually the entire thing is going to be sizzling as if it looks like it's been fried so is this a strategy that you would use only for Wagyu because it has that high fat content?

[1212] That specific thing, yeah.

[1213] But it also, I did a very, the thing I sent you with the venison, did a very similar thing, even though it doesn't have that fat content.

[1214] And that was Red Stag.

[1215] Did you get that from Texas?

[1216] Is that?

[1217] Yeah, from, I think they're called Hudson Meat Market.

[1218] I basically called around for trying to find who has, like, local venison.

[1219] It's one of the best things about Texas is that you can get specifically exotics.

[1220] You can buy them commercially.

[1221] Like Neil Guy is very popular out here, which is an Indian animal.

[1222] It's a large elk -sized.

[1223] They're weird -looking.

[1224] Have you ever seen one on the hoof?

[1225] Not in person.

[1226] I've seen a picture.

[1227] Yeah, I haven't either.

[1228] Well, no, no, I did once.

[1229] Yeah, no, I saw one at a ranch in Texas.

[1230] But I saw him briefly.

[1231] Like, he, like, ran through this trail that we were on.

[1232] And I was like, look at that fucking thing.

[1233] It was kind of blue They're weird looking Yeah You can pull up a needle guy So people could get up Tiny little heads or tiny little Something Yeah Tiny antlers But look they're kind of like Blue Like look how weird That thing looks It's so strange looking It's almost like a Like a fake animal You know Like And they the males in particular I think all of them have Antlers It looks like some sort of crossbreed Between like a zebra And I don't even know what else Well it's a very unusual animal and really delicious there's a, have you eaten a Dai Duet yet?

[1234] Yeah.

[1235] Did you like it?

[1236] I loved it.

[1237] It's great.

[1238] Yeah.

[1239] I ate there.

[1240] Have you met Jesse?

[1241] I haven't.

[1242] Jesse Griffiths, who's been on the podcast before too, is fantastic.

[1243] I might have met.

[1244] So I ate their 2013, 14, something like that.

[1245] Jesse has a school where he teaches people how to hunt, how to butcher, and how to cook and takes people with zero experience.

[1246] And one of the things that he really loves is hogs.

[1247] He takes people to hunt wild hogs.

[1248] First of all, because they're a plentiful resource in Texas in particular, you must kill them because they're invasive and they're overpopulated.

[1249] There's so many of them, they destroy agriculture.

[1250] And so it's an easy animal to gain access to hunt.

[1251] It's very prevalent.

[1252] It's an easy hunt.

[1253] And especially when you're shooting rifles, your success rate is very high.

[1254] and then on top of that Jesse will show them how to break it down what is his um can you see what it's old school cookery I forget the name of his school but he takes you through the entire process and it's a very small amount of people that are allowed to attend because here it is the new school of traditional cookery that's it the new school of traditional cookery is found in 2006, concurrently with Dai Duay Supper Club to provide an educational aspect of our business that promotes responsible use for our wild resources.

[1255] Jesse's awesome.

[1256] I'm such a huge fan of that guy and his whole strategy.

[1257] Like here, click on that, the show Jesse cooking a full board.

[1258] Go full screen.

[1259] I see this.

[1260] Very neat focused.

[1261] It's what the region has to offer and it changes.

[1262] He's also a giant fan of cooking over fire, like everything he does.

[1263] is over uh i think he uses post oak for the most part well once you start doing that you kind of you fall in love with it and you kind of can't go back it's a real issue for me it's become a problem because it takes so much fucking time you know like cooking over um like fire is whatever the fuck it is in your caveman brain that gets excited about grilling gets excited 10 % more oh yeah or more than that maybe by cooking over actual hardwood.

[1264] And I don't know why that is.

[1265] When we first open, when we moved, when we, when we open scratch bar in its current location where we got the hearth, um, the reason I decided to, to, to go completely, uh, wood fire only.

[1266] I mean, there's no other cooking apparatus in the kitchen was because I wanted young cooks to have to learn how to control their environment.

[1267] Um, I felt like there was a lot of, you know, when you're learning to cook or you're working a station as a young cook, it's like, all right, go to high heat and then go down to medium heat, you know, go here for this long and then do that and then do this.

[1268] And I felt like it would be really interesting to just have, like, them have to learn how to, you know, if you let your fire die down, you're fucked, you're completely fucked.

[1269] You know, when we opened the restaurant, we had a, we had a pasta on the menu and you have to boil water on an open fire.

[1270] And, and, you can't just like crank it by turning it up you have to keep your fire going and um so that was kind of the idea and once you really start cooking with it you just you almost can't recreate the flavors and the feeling that you get from from that yeah the feeling is a part of it it really is especially when you're the one who's actually doing the cooking i don't know how much that feeling is for someone who is uh completely removed from the process who just gets it served to them the flavor is definitely different but there's the feeling when you're actually cooking the meat yeah it's uh there's something about it that's very enticing well at the restaurant i mean if if if this was the the hearth right here you're sitting as close to it as as as you would be so you're getting all the aromas there's no there's no seat in the restaurant that isn't within 20 feet of the hearth oh that's wild yeah and what do you is this your spot yeah that's scratch bar okay and so when you're cooking do you have okay so you have wheels and you crank up and down like argentine style so when we first opened um yeah we were doing wheels uh you can already see there i've removed uh everything so what we actually ended up going with is just bricks they're just bricks and like roasting racks and we just create our own little uh apparatuses i also got some just some uh rolled steel uh to create little planches so what was wrong with the wheels was two one size fits all.

[1271] Like you could see there, that's about a, I'm going to say roughly four feet and four feet.

[1272] So we had two four foot wheels.

[1273] One of them was just a big grill and one of them was a big plancha.

[1274] And because we're doing tasting menus and you've got so many different things happening, like that's great if you're at a restaurant where it's like, all right, you're going to fire 50 steaks in the next hour and a half or whatever.

[1275] But this was like you've got like seven or eight different courses coming off this and each one needs to be you know treated a little bit differently with the fire so we would create all these different sort of like sort of apparatus is in little areas to cook that's fascinating so what kind of foods are you cooking in this fire other than just meat everything like how you're doing like fish vegetables basically at some point everything is going through the fire and so you're using frying pans Are you using just a plancha?

[1276] Like, what do you...

[1277] Sometimes you're going into the coals with a pan.

[1278] Sometimes you're going with the meat or fish directly into the coals.

[1279] Sometimes you're just going...

[1280] Sometimes you're just warming something.

[1281] You know, you may have like a raw fish course that just sits by the fire for a few minutes just to get warm and get a little bit of smoky, you know, flavor to it and that's it.

[1282] I've seen people cook on coals.

[1283] Like they lay a steak down flat on the coals.

[1284] But I was always under the impression that coals were not the best conductor of heat and that you really are better served with a hot metal.

[1285] Depends really what you're going for.

[1286] What is the difference in the flavor that you can achieve from putting it on coals versus putting it on like a grate above the coals?

[1287] Well, I mean, right there it explains it.

[1288] Either you're going directly into it.

[1289] Either you're touching the grate and you're getting the smoke that the coals create or you're getting the flavor of the coals.

[1290] Now, sometimes that might be a bit harsh, but for example, you know, the Santa Maria style, you know, tri -tip in California, which is California's answer to barbecue, which I thought was something until I came here.

[1291] Ranchers.

[1292] Well, it's not really, it's grilling more than it's barbecue, right?

[1293] Completely.

[1294] But it is manipulation of the protein with the temperature.

[1295] So, I mean, there is some barbecue aspect to it.

[1296] but like that one like if I'm doing a try tip and I actually competed in the I think two or two years in a row I competed in the 805 state championship or whatever and what I did is after you cook it and I would rest the meat I would then dip it in a barbecue sauce get my pit really roaring make a little hole and then put it in and bury it in the coals and that would sort of give it a really interesting exterior, just like texture and flavor.

[1297] So explain that again?

[1298] So you would take the tri -tip, you would dunk it in a barbecue sauce, and then throw it right into the fire?

[1299] And then bury it in more coals.

[1300] Did you cook it to a certain temperature before that?

[1301] Yeah, so I would take the whole tri -tip with the rub, and I would start it really low, so it gets like a little bit of sear.

[1302] and then you go all the way up and you just let it kind of like an hour and a half, just let it sort of slowly get the smoke and obviously there's no lid on it in the Santa Maria style until you're at about 127 or so and then take it out and I'd put it in an igloo cooler and I would close the top for about an hour, hour and a half.

[1303] And then, when it was time to serve, open up the cooler, dip it completely submerged in barbecue sauce and then I would basically char the barbecue sauce in the coals.

[1304] Oh, wow.

[1305] How was that?

[1306] It was really good.

[1307] Sounds fucking amazing.

[1308] I'm hungry now, dude.

[1309] Well, tri -tip is an interesting cut, right?

[1310] Because it's very lean.

[1311] It's delicious, though.

[1312] Yeah, it's very good.

[1313] It seems like one you could fuck up, though.

[1314] It's so easy to fuck up.

[1315] Like, the thing is, if you cook tri -tip like a steak, it's not very good.

[1316] And I think the average person, like if, you know, tri -tips in every market in L .A., But if you just go and grab a tri -tip and you try to cook it like a rib -eye, it's not very good.

[1317] What do you have to do differently?

[1318] Slow.

[1319] Slow.

[1320] We've got to slow it down.

[1321] So you've got to treat it like you would treat like a game meat because it's so devoid of fat.

[1322] Yes, and I mean, you can cook game meat faster.

[1323] But in a thin slice.

[1324] Tri -tip is kind of a fat roast.

[1325] I mean, it depends, though, like that venison saddle that I showed you.

[1326] I mean, it was two -pound saddles about this big.

[1327] Right, and I cooked that right in the fire.

[1328] But it seemed long and not very thick.

[1329] Like, I'm looking at the image that you sent me, and it seems like it just doesn't have the same kind of thickness.

[1330] Like, that doesn't seem very thick.

[1331] Maybe not.

[1332] I mean, that makes sense to me that you would cook something like that at high heat over fire.

[1333] God damn, that looks good.

[1334] I'll send this to Jamie so he can.

[1335] It's kind of interesting how you did it, too, because you have made in your, I mean, obviously you have access to whatever the fuck you want when it comes to cooking, and you made like the most primitive sort of setup.

[1336] You just use, like, concrete and cinder blocks and shit.

[1337] Yeah, that was like $250 from Home Depot .com.

[1338] They just brought it all on a truck and dropped in my, you know.

[1339] So you.

[1340] I mean, it's probably about an inch and a half thick, maybe two inches thick.

[1341] And you built this whole situation.

[1342] What is this?

[1343] Why are we looking at Jim Gaffigan?

[1344] so you made this like completely on your own yeah so they're just they're literally cinder blocks on the on the bottom and then uh just bricks on top and i basically recreated um what we have at scratch bar just in my backyard here and where are you getting the grate from that little grill rack yeah i mean you could probably buy it at hb but i don't even remember where i got that from probably one of the local restaurant supply stores and when you cook do you use specific wood what kind of wood do you like to cook off of uh i prefer almond almond um yeah but uh you can't really find that here so this is mesquite why do you like almond uh it burns really clean so like for example i explained at scratch bar you're sitting really close to the fire if i was to use you know some of this post oak everybody who left the restaurant would just smell like they were in it they came from a smoke shop.

[1345] Oh, I see.

[1346] And so almond tends to taste, it gives you more of a foresty flavor and less of a barnyardy flavor, if that makes sense.

[1347] That sounds like you're selling almond wood, because barnyardy flavor is not sound like anything I want in my food.

[1348] Of course you do.

[1349] Well, sort of, but barnyardy sounds like horse shit.

[1350] Yeah, that's not what I meant, though.

[1351] When I hear barnyard, I smell poo.

[1352] Sure.

[1353] You know?

[1354] Well, what's the forest smell like?

[1355] It doesn't smell like poo.

[1356] Forest smells like trees.

[1357] You know?

[1358] When I think of oak, I don't think of barnyardy.

[1359] When I think of like cooking over oak, I think of like this sort of robust aroma that's imparted on the meat from the burning of this hardwood.

[1360] Sure.

[1361] You know, tomato tomato.

[1362] Okay.

[1363] But you obviously have access to whatever kind of cooking utensils and equipment that you want.

[1364] Why do you choose to do it this way?

[1365] I did it the other ways I still do it the other ways but that's the one that I connected with the most it's just I mean it's the way I want to cook at home it's the way I want to cook at the restaurant and it's also you know I really thought that I could do something for the cooks who got to learn I felt like if you could hold down that station at scratch bar you could work anywhere and way you're doing it you're not even getting it down to the coals you're you're doing it just over the fire like i'm looking at those logs they were not fully submerged yeah so there's there's lots of different schools of thought and i'm not going to debate which ones are correct and i don't even sure there is a correct one um i personally like to cook in the flame in the flame yeah as opposed to over the heat of the burning coals correct why is that i've just found that uh if you go down to just coals, right?

[1366] And I actually, when we first opened, I was doing charcoal and I switched to hard wood.

[1367] When you're just doing coals, you're just at radiant heat.

[1368] At that point, it's almost as if you could just have a grill that's like an infrared grill.

[1369] You've created an infrared grill out of wood or charcoal.

[1370] But there's still a lot of smoke flavor that's imparted from the coals.

[1371] There is.

[1372] However, when you're dealing with a piece of wood that's on fire, you're going to to have a different like flavor, aroma of the smoke itself, because once it's all broken down into coals, it's going to smoke.

[1373] You know, when you have a big flame, you have no smoke.

[1374] And when you're trying to start a flame, you have a lot of smoke.

[1375] So as you're burning wood, you're creating different levels of smoke, different amounts of smoke, different levels of heat versus just one large infrared area.

[1376] I see.

[1377] Now, when it comes to something like a tri -tip that you have to do slower how are you doing that over fire same thing I mean look it's not that I don't cook with coals it's just for specific things so you're saying but you wouldn't do it in the fire like you wouldn't have the fire touch the meat you'd be above it sometimes sometimes yeah but sometimes like in that video there I actually want the fire I want the flame to actually start to sear the meat and and that's similar in the fact that they're both very lean to a try tip with the venison yeah yeah yeah and what are you putting on the outside of a piece of meat like that are you using a rub before you're you're cooking it there are you seasoning it with anything uh typically i'm just putting you know salt and pepper like at the restaurant's just salt and pepper um uh recently though a buddy of mine gave me this he has uh his own like uh spice rub called nADC and it's fucking Awesome.

[1378] NADC.

[1379] What does it stand for?

[1380] Not a damn chance.

[1381] Not a damn chance of what?

[1382] It's not a damn chance.

[1383] What's in not a damn chance?

[1384] I don't know, but it's fucking really good.

[1385] What's the name of his company so people could buy it?

[1386] NADCco .com, I think.

[1387] I'm not sure.

[1388] Oh, so that's the name of the company.

[1389] That's the name of the company.

[1390] And he only has one rub?

[1391] No, he's got a bunch, but OG steak is...

[1392] Oh, OG steak.

[1393] What's this?

[1394] Oh, mango, habanero.

[1395] Bonaro.

[1396] He's a man after me own heart.

[1397] So, Neen's a professional skateboarder.

[1398] Oh, is this professional skateboarder who makes his own rubs?

[1399] Yeah.

[1400] He actually built a similar, we became friends.

[1401] He came to sushi bars.

[1402] I said we became friends.

[1403] But he, we kind of bonded over skateboarding, but then he's like, oh, I built this hearth in my backyard, and he's cooking all over wood fire.

[1404] And he just moved here to Texas, too.

[1405] Wow.

[1406] Yeah.

[1407] He's actually, he and I are the, he's my, I don't want to know if we call a partner because it's not a real thing, but we do the burgers together.

[1408] Oh, interesting.

[1409] Yeah.

[1410] So this is obviously, that's not actually our burger, but if you go to NADC burger, that's our burger.

[1411] And how often are you guys doing this a lot?

[1412] This burger thing?

[1413] We've done it three times.

[1414] We did it at, we did it.

[1415] There's Yoni.

[1416] Yep.

[1417] So that's at the Vulcan after one of the shows.

[1418] And then we did one at The Barracks, which is just like legendary professional only skate park in L .A. And then we just did one for CM Smokehouse's one year anniversary.

[1419] We would just give him away every time.

[1420] We don't even charge.

[1421] We just do it for fun.

[1422] Oh, well, that's very nice of you.

[1423] Yeah.

[1424] Just for just to perfect the process and have fun, enjoy it?

[1425] We're just enjoying it.

[1426] And actually we do our burger with his seasoning.

[1427] Oh, nice.

[1428] Yeah, it's good.

[1429] So when you're cooking, like, that piece of venison and you're using the OG steak?

[1430] Sometimes, yeah.

[1431] I don't think I did in that video, but I can't remember.

[1432] Now, do you ever use, like, an offset grill?

[1433] Have you fucked around at all?

[1434] Because now we're in Texas.

[1435] Have you tried their style of barbecuing out here, like the way they do a brisket?

[1436] I have.

[1437] I actually had, I've had two traggers.

[1438] I gave them both away, though.

[1439] You're not a fan.

[1440] I'm not not a fan Well, I like I like building a fire Right And so actually that The Barbecue Championship I was telling you about I got a I want a Traeger both both years They gave me a Trager And then I just gave them to my cooks Who did the event with me But Yeah I There's something about I like building a fire Now You want to do it the old school way Yeah I mean But then like the You know The typical offset here, you know, you are doing with fire.

[1441] So I haven't played with it that much, but I do enjoy it.

[1442] Yeah, when you talk to the guys at Terry Blacks, I put something up on my Instagram the other day.

[1443] I guess it's gone because it was in my stories.

[1444] But we, they gave me a tour.

[1445] They always do.

[1446] I always asked to give me a tour of the pits and see how they have it down to a science where they have like notebooks saying, you know, what was in where and, you know, They're 12 plus hours for each brisket, and they have this whole thing that they're doing from start to finish, like ramping up the temperature towards the end, wrapping it, all these different steps that they take.

[1447] But they do not speak highly about pellet drills.

[1448] Pellet grills are for the person who doesn't know what the fuck they're doing.

[1449] It's very convenient.

[1450] I love Tragers because they're very convenient.

[1451] It's great for wild game, you know, because you could keep a temperature probe.

[1452] in there, it tells my phone exactly where it's at, and...

[1453] I wonder if that's similar to my feelings on, like, Suvei.

[1454] I'm sure.

[1455] I'm sure.

[1456] But these guys are so old school, and they use oak, by the way.

[1457] They have these, I mean, everything is made out of propane tanks.

[1458] So they have somebody who welds these crazy, gigantic fucking pits out of propane tanks, and this massive insulated firebox, there it is.

[1459] First of all, goddamn, that looks good.

[1460] Yeah.

[1461] Oh, my God.

[1462] And their fucking sausages are insane, too.

[1463] I'm a Terry Blacks fanatic.

[1464] I'm a very, very big fan of theirs.

[1465] I was so glad when you liked them.

[1466] It's like, God damn, if Philip shit's on Terry Blacks, we're going to have a real problem in our friendship.

[1467] Mark Black actually sort of threw me a surprise birthday party last year.

[1468] Oh, no shit.

[1469] Yeah, so as a surprise, Margarita was going to take me to, well, she took me to Houston, but on the way to Houston, And she's like, oh, we're going to stop by and pick up Terry Blacks on the way.

[1470] And, you know, you have to get out and go in.

[1471] And when we did, everybody from sushi bar was there.

[1472] And Mark, who we had just met at sushi bar two weeks prior, he'd come to the restaurant and he loved it, was there.

[1473] And he's like, nope, come over here.

[1474] You don't have to wait in the line.

[1475] He's like, I personally cooked this one.

[1476] And, like, he cut it.

[1477] And it was like, fucking unbelievable.

[1478] Yeah.

[1479] Briscuit's an art form.

[1480] It's one of those things that like It's achieved ultimate Like, I don't know how it gets better Than what it is right now.

[1481] It's a little different at different places.

[1482] It is.

[1483] And still amazed.

[1484] Like Franklin has a slightly different taste But still fucking insanely good.

[1485] It's all about texture for me. And so there's a few places in town That just like they're at they're on a completely another level and or at least i know i haven't tried everywhere in town but the ones that i have tried you know franklin's la barbecue uh uh terry blacks um i don't know have you tried c m smokehouse no yoni speaks very highly of it though yoni's the man when it comes to oh i know yeah but but c m smokehouse is the sleeper in that i i when i tried his his brisket i looked at him because you know you meet someone who's a friend of someone else's you're like oh that you know He does stuff.

[1486] And then when you, when that friend of a friend actually is super legit, you're like, wait a second.

[1487] Like, you made this?

[1488] This is fucking, this is good.

[1489] This is really fucking good.

[1490] Do you talk to him about methods?

[1491] I haven't talked to him about methods, but I did say, I did tell him that I'm like, this is, and I don't know if I said it just without thinking.

[1492] I think I was drinking too, but I was like, this is as good as any of those other three.

[1493] And I meant it to be a compliment, not like, you know, hey, you know, yours is actually as good as other.

[1494] people's.

[1495] Did he get offended?

[1496] No, not at all because, I mean, I think there's a, there's an understanding that that's the pinnacle.

[1497] Right.

[1498] So if you're, I mean, if you were to say, Philip, your restaurant's as good as the French laundry, I wouldn't be offended, I would be, I don't even think you're correct.

[1499] Right.

[1500] It is amazing how many great barbecue restaurants are in this city.

[1501] Yeah.

[1502] It's fucking incredible.

[1503] Well, it's crazy how many good restaurants are in this city.

[1504] Yeah.

[1505] It's, there doesn't appear to be bad restaurants in Austin.

[1506] It's very hard to survive.

[1507] Well, I just, I haven't had it.

[1508] I haven't been to a bad restaurant yet.

[1509] I could tell you a few places that suck.

[1510] It's okay.

[1511] I'm sure this place is, there's some mediocrity.

[1512] I'm sure there's terrible stuff because there's terrible stuff everywhere.

[1513] Further out of town.

[1514] But like, you go to L .A. And if you were just to throw a, like, a dart at a random restaurant, it's hit or miss that that thing's even edible.

[1515] There's tons of bad food, but there's so, like.

[1516] So many people.

[1517] But then here, it's like, I think like the peaks and valleys are higher.

[1518] in, you know, a place like L .A., but here, everywhere you eat is just solid.

[1519] That was one of the things that really stuck out to us.

[1520] That, like, we didn't have, you know, we still haven't had a bad meal here.

[1521] Well, it's also a town that celebrates independent businesses, independent stores, independent restaurants.

[1522] It's like, it would be very hard to be like a Ruth's Chris here, you know.

[1523] There is one, isn't there?

[1524] I'm sure there is.

[1525] Yeah.

[1526] But, I mean, in comparison to, like, some of the.

[1527] like the eddy vs type places that have like this feel that you go to there's a feel of like hey this is a business that's created by humans and actually this is not like we're going to show you how to make a restaurant the way we make a restaurant you follow our guidelines we're going to do it this way because when you go to a place not shit on Ruth Chris they make a great steak but you go to a place that's like a place has been doing it forever and with the owners and the chefs and all the people that have been cooking and serving it there.

[1528] It's like there's a field of that place.

[1529] It's like a part of the experience.

[1530] You know you're going to someone's place.

[1531] Yeah, and that's the thing.

[1532] So I fell in love with this city in 2013.

[1533] We came out here and we did south by southwest.

[1534] I brought Scratch Bar out here and we spent two weeks.

[1535] And we actually opened on the corner of 6th and Red River, not in the corner, but we actually down an alleyway.

[1536] We got a truck, we set up some picnic tables, and we were doing tasting menus, you know, just all day.

[1537] You could just walk up and have like a $50 tasting menu on the side of the, you know, South by.

[1538] Nice.

[1539] And while I was out here, I just fell in love with, like, the ingenuity and the community of chefs and just the, like, just the style.

[1540] You could, it felt like a place where you could just have an idea and go and do something.

[1541] coming from LA that's not so much the case well LA is just such a complicated city and so much more complicated now because of the pandemic and then the aftermath of the poor management of the city it's just it's such a fucked up place now that it's but it's always had this weird sort of like non -community community aspect to it you know well I grew up in the valley and so it definitely there was like there's neighborhoods and communities and like when we first opened scratch bar in Encino you would it was every night this person knew this person this person you know it was a lot of that and it was you know I wanted to open there because it's where I grew up and it's because it was you know it's you know where my my parents lived and my friends parents lived and and just sort of that sense of community which you don't find all over LA right yeah Yeah, there's more of that in Encino and more of that even so when you go to like Orange County and there's places down there.

[1542] But it's just, L .A. is just so polluted by the entertainment industry.

[1543] Like the disingenuous aspect of the entertainment, particularly acting and like the pursuit of acting success.

[1544] And then, and then on top of that, if we didn't think that that was disingenuous enough, it was reality stars.

[1545] And then like, well, that's not stupid enough, TikTok stars.

[1546] It's like they keep coming up with new levels of stupidity and that's the pinnacle is the, you know, the online like content creator star.

[1547] You know, I guess whatever makes people happy, whatever works for them.

[1548] Okay.

[1549] I guess that's my political response to that.

[1550] Yeah, I mean, it's just the problem is like there's too many people too.

[1551] And one of the things about a city like Austin is that it's only a million people and then another million in the surrounding area.

[1552] That's not a lot.

[1553] It's very small in comparison of Los Angeles.

[1554] Well, also, everybody's nice here.

[1555] And I have a theory on why that is.

[1556] And not just the people from here.

[1557] Well, the people from here are nice.

[1558] But, like, you come, you, people go to L .A. And I feel like there's this, this perceived persona that's like, I need to be an asshole to fit in.

[1559] And so, yeah, I think so.

[1560] I think a lot of people moved L .A. and they, like, they wanted, especially in the entertainment industry, They moved to L .A. and they're like, okay, I'm going to be this sort of, you know, this sort of like, you know, douchebag mentality style.

[1561] I mean, if you grew up in L .A., you can always tell who's from L .A., because they don't honk and they put on their blinkers.

[1562] And they wave to you.

[1563] Here, everyone moved here recently, and they're like, oh, if I'm going to fit in, I've got to be really nice to everybody.

[1564] Oh, that's funny.

[1565] Yeah, go to New York.

[1566] Do you think that douchebaggishness is prevalent in L .A.?

[1567] In New York, they really adopt it.

[1568] You know, I was talking to a buddy of mine about that, about what's happening in comedy clubs in New York, that people get angry if you bring up certain premises and they're like the woke aspect of it.

[1569] And he's like, but guess what, bro?

[1570] None of them are from here.

[1571] They're like fucking Maine people.

[1572] They're like from somewhere else where they thought they were going to adopt this persona by coming to New York and being like real aggressive about like being like this left -wing progressive angry city dweller.

[1573] Yeah.

[1574] And they're like, it's a persona they adopt.

[1575] It's like this makes them happy to try to pretend that they're this person.

[1576] It's just an interesting idea that like I'm going to go somewhere and I'm going to reinvent myself to fit in.

[1577] That's a lot of it though.

[1578] Yeah.

[1579] It's a lot of people do that, man. I mean, people do move to places to reinvent themselves.

[1580] Yeah.

[1581] There's a lot of people that don't know why they are the way they are and they don't like it.

[1582] They don't like how they fit in where they are, especially if you go.

[1583] grew up in a place so they've known you since you're five that's a fucking problem because now that you're 18 you want to have pink hair they're like fuck you like but i like pink hair you know no no no you got to move to a place and they go oh mike has pink hair he's always had pink hair and they just accept you yeah i moved to chicago when i was like uh i don't even know how old um but it was it was interesting to just be in a new place where you could i mean i didn't reinvent myself because i just moved there to cook and i kept cooking but it's interesting to like make new friends and meet new people and have the opportunity to have zero baggage or zero preconceived notion and you can i mean it's kind of when margaret and i moved here it was like no one knew us and they were only introduced to us with the success of sushi bar um which was so interesting because like in l .a we've been hustlers we're known as like the the young kids who have been hustling forever and and you know have made it and here we we walk in and everyone's like oh, you're from sushi bar and it's like, that's weird, because we're not used to people like approaching us that way.

[1584] Right.

[1585] Well, there's, you know, again, this is like not there many people here.

[1586] Yeah.

[1587] It's different.

[1588] It's essentially a small town.

[1589] And part of that could be a problem, you know.

[1590] There's definitely people that are like super into talking to certain people because they are famous or because they, you know, run a famous restaurant or something and they'll weasel their way into your life.

[1591] And I have a lot of uncomfortable conversations where people are trying to get on the podcast for no fucking reason whatsoever.

[1592] I'm like, what is this conversation we're having?

[1593] Like, yeah, I haven't, luckily, I mean, luckily I haven't, either I haven't noticed it or I'm too naive, but, but.

[1594] Or busy.

[1595] Or busy.

[1596] Yeah, I know this is, um, this has become the busiest I've ever been this last, this last year.

[1597] And now with, uh, getting out of sushi bar ATX, and what we've got coming is going to get even busier.

[1598] So sushi bar ATX, though, you sold it to someone?

[1599] What did you do?

[1600] So does it McDonald's?

[1601] Basically, I'm no longer involved.

[1602] I'm not an owner.

[1603] I am no longer the chef there.

[1604] You cashed out?

[1605] something happened and I am no longer involved oh so something negative no no no nothing negative I'm just not supposed we're not really talking about the inter workings of of I was involved I'm no longer involved this is cryptic I want to like pause the show and decipher this Jamie how are you feeling about this I think I understand what he's saying I feel like it's very cryptic but also I maybe understand their cryptocity.

[1606] Well, I'll give you some more...

[1607] Cryptocity.

[1608] I'll give you more context of the story.

[1609] Okay.

[1610] So...

[1611] You don't have to, if you feel uncomfortable about it.

[1612] I don't give a fuck.

[1613] I'm just riding you.

[1614] No, no, no. Well, there's other stuff to talk about.

[1615] Yeah.

[1616] So, Margie and I started Scratch Bar, actually, 2013, and we operated in a coffee shop.

[1617] And we moved it from our coffee shop to our one -bedroom apartment.

[1618] in Hollywood from there somebody who ate at our apartment offered us You served food at your apartment Yeah we were doing about commercially We charged for it How the fuck did you manage to do that So we were operating at this coffee shop And the deal was They were open from like It was breakfast through like 4 p .m. They closed and they hired me to be like to redo their menu.

[1619] And so when they hired me to do that, they asked me, what do you want to charge?

[1620] And I said, you close at 4 p .m. So instead of paying me, what if I just get to use your space at night?

[1621] And I'm going to open a restaurant at night here.

[1622] And that was the deal.

[1623] I worked there for free all day during the day.

[1624] And then at night, I would turn it into scratch bar.

[1625] Oh, that's a great deal.

[1626] Um, for them.

[1627] Yeah.

[1628] And I thought so.

[1629] And then after a few weeks, the guy comes over and says, well, I, I'd rather, you know, you start putting a little more focus into what, you know, my menu.

[1630] And I said, well, our deal was I would, I would change an X amount.

[1631] I used to be a big hot head.

[1632] We ended that conversation with, fuck you, I'm out.

[1633] We, it happened on, I think, on a Saturday, and we were closed Sunday, Monday.

[1634] We were sold out next week, and I was like, fuck, what are we going to do?

[1635] So, we gutted our apartment, and we called all of our reservations and told them to come to our apartment.

[1636] Wow.

[1637] How many people could you see it at a time?

[1638] I want to say we sat close to like 20 -something.

[1639] That is wild.

[1640] Yeah.

[1641] So what do your fucking neighbors think?

[1642] I mean, it only lasts.

[1643] This guy's partying every night.

[1644] Yeah, I mean, we were in West Hollywood.

[1645] It's not like, you know, we were in a quiet area.

[1646] We were on like Crescent Heights and Sunset.

[1647] Right.

[1648] So we did that for a couple of weeks.

[1649] And during that time, one of our guests was like, Like, you know, he came in and basically said, this is incredible.

[1650] I have an, I own an empty restaurant space on Restaurant Row next door to Matsuhisa.

[1651] And if you want to go 50 -50, you can move the restaurant into my space.

[1652] Oh, that's amazing.

[1653] We opened up on Restaurant Row, La Sienega, the next week.

[1654] Fast forward from 2013, we've opened multiple restaurants.

[1655] Now today, I'm not involved in.

[1656] in Austin anymore, but Margie and I now own 100 % of our restaurant.

[1657] So you were not 100 % an owner of sushi bar?

[1658] I've had partners since 2013.

[1659] So now in Scratch restaurants, which operates scratch bar and kitchen, both sushi bars and pasta bar, we don't have partners there anymore.

[1660] We should probably tell everybody how we met and what happened, because you guys weren't planning on living in Austin.

[1661] No, it's kind of your fault a little bit.

[1662] It's my wife's fault because my wife's friend, who's a sushi fiends, like there's going to be a pop -up in Austin.

[1663] Sushi bar is like her favorite spot in L .A. And she's like, they're coming to Austin because they can't work in Los Angeles because they're draconian measures by this goofy fucking government.

[1664] So you guys set up shop here.

[1665] My wife drags me out because basically, I always want to eat meat and she's like you like come out for sushi it's supposed to really go there okay okay okay I go it's fucking phenomenal and I put it on my Instagram yeah so um in December of 2020 2020 yeah December of 2020 L .A said it's too dangerous to serve on the patio um and so they said shut everything down you can't serve indoors you can't serve outdoors earlier in the year when they said you can't serve indoors we literally just built a sushi bar on our patio so patio business was fine we had built tents and everything but now it was too dangerous to be on the patio either so um we were going to have to lay everyone off right before christmas and so margie and i decided that we didn't want to do that instead we said if anyone's willing to work we will find another state that will let us work um because at that point it wasn't l a anymore it was california we were going to go up north and do a, do a sushi bar in Big Sur, and then they closed all of California.

[1666] So I had some friends out here, and we came out, and we found a space, and we did this pop -up that was supposed to last five weeks.

[1667] We got here at the end of December.

[1668] We were supposed to go back at the beginning of February.

[1669] And when we tried to come out here, you know, we have a publicist in L .A., and they were talking to all of the different writers here in town, and they all said, we're not going to promote them.

[1670] You know, with, with COVID, we're just not promoting anything right now.

[1671] So we were like, fuck, we're going out to a city that we don't know that doesn't know us and we have no reservations.

[1672] And so we sent out a newsletter to our following.

[1673] And I guess that's where your wife's friend saw it.

[1674] We basically said, if you know anyone who's in Austin, please tell them to come support us.

[1675] And after probably about two weeks of being open, we had sold out the the entire stint yeah so we came there it is look at you best sushi ever had in my life so this is when 53 weeks ago basically a year yeah wild and so yeah you you convinced me to keep it at least one I think you said to me you got to keep this I got to we got to stay and I said I can't I have to go back and you said well if you stay through February, I'll post about it.

[1676] And I said, okay.

[1677] And that's what happened.

[1678] And you did.

[1679] And we, you know, I didn't know, I mean, I had no idea what to expect.

[1680] But that night, you posted about it.

[1681] And we sold out February within four minutes that night.

[1682] And then the next morning we woke up and there was like 20 ,000 people on the wait list.

[1683] And we just kept extending and extending and extending.

[1684] And then eventually we signed a lease.

[1685] And, And it's been phenomenal.

[1686] We haven't had a, I'm saying we like I'm still there.

[1687] I'm not there anymore, but the restaurant never had a day that wasn't at capacity.

[1688] And now we are, now that Margarie and I have, you know, control of scratch restaurants, and we live here now, we're bringing two new sushi concepts this year.

[1689] And pasta bar will be here shortly as well.

[1690] And pasta bar you're going to put in on sixth.

[1691] which is very close from my super secret comedy club project that will probably open in a similar time frame.

[1692] Yeah, we, uh, pasta bar will open in March.

[1693] The goal right now is March 11th, which is the first day of South by.

[1694] Oh, that's awesome.

[1695] Yeah, and so as of right now, um, we actually, we don't know the exact date yet.

[1696] We haven't released it, but you can go on Pasta Bar -Austin .com and actually get on the wait list for when we open reservations.

[1697] So the comedy club will be open just for anybody to listen.

[1698] It would be longer than that.

[1699] It'll take a little longer than that.

[1700] But you're doing something else too, though, right?

[1701] You're going to do a sushi place that's out like a little further outside of town?

[1702] Yeah.

[1703] So we are in escrow on a ranch out in dripping.

[1704] So in dripping springs right off of Fitzhue, we got a 1 .2 acre ranch and it's going to be really fucking cool.

[1705] Nice.

[1706] It's an old, like, cowboy -style log cabin, which is going to be a Japanese whiskey bar.

[1707] Oh, wow.

[1708] And then you're going to go onto this property and have your welcome cocktail in there, canapes.

[1709] This is not going to be the sushi bar concept.

[1710] So all of our sushi bars up until now, which, by the way, we're with the new sushi restaurant, well, we're changing the name of sushi bar.

[1711] for our ones in L .A. and Montecito and another one that's coming here.

[1712] So it's going to be called sushi by scratch restaurants.

[1713] And so all of those are the, what was the sushi bar concept.

[1714] This is going to be a completely different concept.

[1715] So you're going to go onto the property.

[1716] The property, you're going to have your drink and your snacks in this little, like, log cabin.

[1717] And then you're going to be taken through, like, the grounds of the property to another cabin where we're going to have a pretty exciting concept where sushi bar was a one -star concept we're going to attempt at like a two or three -star sushi concept here and what's the difference like what are you going to do so the sushi bar was is was always designed to be appealing to everybody in terms of like the the types of fish that we were getting although we were getting like the highest quality salmon you could get we had salmon on the menu we had you know we had albacor on the We had a lot of things that were, you know, think of us almost as like a gateway restaurant where we weren't, you go to some sushi restaurants and you don't recognize a single fish that's on the menu.

[1718] So this is going to be a little bit more higher -end fish.

[1719] It's also going to be, we're going to have a tank with like live king crabs and live lobsters and things like that.

[1720] I haven't quite finished the full concept, but it's going to also not be one hundred.

[1721] 100 % sushi.

[1722] It's going to be like 80 % sushi.

[1723] And when you say like exotic fish, like what are you talking about?

[1724] Like what kind of fish?

[1725] So one of my favorite fish is called Akamutsu.

[1726] And it's a...

[1727] That's Jamie's favorite.

[1728] Yeah.

[1729] Right?

[1730] It's actually from Ohio.

[1731] Yeah.

[1732] That's from Ohio.

[1733] What the hell is in Akamutsu?

[1734] Google that.

[1735] How do you spell that?

[1736] A .K. What were you starting with?

[1737] No. A .k .A .M. U .S .O. Akamut.

[1738] Is it German?

[1739] Yeah, it's German fish, yeah, from Ohio.

[1740] That sounds super Japanese.

[1741] Oh, wow.

[1742] Okay, so it looks like a snapper.

[1743] Blackthroat sea perch.

[1744] Yeah, so it's a perch, but it's very, very, it's in very, very deep waters.

[1745] Oh, that makes me hungry.

[1746] Yeah, it's also incredibly difficult to source and very expensive.

[1747] But, you know, where we have very, you know, the type of fish selection for a sushi bar is very, I don't want to say average because it's not average, but it's very approachable for someone who's not necessarily like a sushi connoisseur.

[1748] So this is going to be just sort of like the next level.

[1749] And now that kind of fish, is there a difference in the type of flavor that you're going to get from a fish like that?

[1750] Is there a way to describe that?

[1751] So that one, you serve it with a skin on.

[1752] The skin's so soft that when you take the scales off, I'll usually just use my hands.

[1753] I won't use a scaler.

[1754] Really?

[1755] You'll take the scales off with your hands.

[1756] Yeah, because you'll rip the skin.

[1757] It's so soft.

[1758] Wow.

[1759] And so the oil content is just like, the single fish sells for $736 ,000.

[1760] What?

[1761] What did you say?

[1762] That's what it says.

[1763] But yeah, that's a lot.

[1764] Is that real?

[1765] You're going to spend three quarters of...

[1766] Of course.

[1767] You're going to spend three quarters of a million dollars on fish?

[1768] Well, I mean, some of the bluefin tunas are selling for millions of dollars.

[1769] But isn't that like a dick -waving contest when they do that with the bluefin tuna?

[1770] It could be.

[1771] The way it's been explained to me is that that's like a restaurant wants to establish that they're like the big cahuna.

[1772] So they'll outbid everyone else.

[1773] But the actual market price of a single tuna is never that high.

[1774] Yeah, I mean, I carry probably the most expensive tuna that you could get, like, regularly in America, and I'm not paying a million dollars for a fish.

[1775] Right, that's what I'm saying.

[1776] This video actually says it's an Akamutsu, but the, like, caption says it's a bluefin tuna caught off northeast in Japan, fetch $736 ,000.

[1777] Got it.

[1778] Yeah, so tuna would also, I mean, Akamutsu's not, I mean, it's not huge.

[1779] Where tuna, you, I mean, the thing is, a lot of those guys who do buy those tunas, they can cut it up and, you.

[1780] freeze it and send it to 10 of their restaurants and sell it for a lot of money as this is the most expensive prize tuna of the year.

[1781] Right.

[1782] And when you're dealing with sushi, you think of the size of the portion and, you know, if it's, I mean, like if you're going to a sushi place like Soto or somewhere in town, that's a nice sushi place, what would like a two piece of sushi like Toro go for, roughly?

[1783] I'm going to guess $29.

[1784] No, I would guess less, but I don't know.

[1785] $17.

[1786] Let's just call it $20.

[1787] Yeah.

[1788] So it's $20 and it's two small pieces.

[1789] Oh, for two pieces?

[1790] Yeah, it might be more.

[1791] Okay.

[1792] Yeah.

[1793] Oh, you're thinking individual, single pieces.

[1794] So let's just say it's $30.

[1795] And think of $30 and then look at the entire tuna, how many $30 portions are in there.

[1796] It's hundreds and hundreds.

[1797] And when you're saying this is the most prize tuna of the year, that $30 piece is $300 and people are paying for it.

[1798] Right.

[1799] I get it.

[1800] I don't think anyone's losing money on those tunas they spend that money on.

[1801] Of course, they wouldn't do it, right?

[1802] Well, it might be worth a little bit of money just for the marketing and PR or whatever.

[1803] But I think when they, the thing that someone was explaining to me, and honestly, now that I'm thinking about it, I think I heard it on a podcast.

[1804] I think it was on meat eater.

[1805] And I think they were saying that it's not that they would normally spend that much money on a tuna.

[1806] It's that there's like a sort of a ceremonial aspect of this bidding to.

[1807] see if that's true.

[1808] I don't know how you'd even Google that.

[1809] Well, it definitely is a, they do bid on it, but how it gets to be millions of dollars.

[1810] That's what's confusing.

[1811] And that's what he was trying to.

[1812] Yeah, I mean, that's not in the, I mean, like I'm saying, the normal market, but what I'm, you know, because what I'm getting is, is from Toyosa.

[1813] It is from what used to be Suu Kyi.

[1814] So it is coming from the same market where that bidding is happening.

[1815] But when I'm getting you know uh we don't get whole tunas we get we get them halved but they're almost as big as like the length of this table so you get them in the full form and then you piece it up yourself so remember when you came the first time to sushi bar the that that the size of that table it was almost reached end to end and i think that was yeah so it was maybe like probably six feet that's a big ass too a piece of tuna yeah and so that's how much many pounds is that 100 and something 180 probably and what is something like that cost a couple thousand jesus so when you're doing like um inventory for a sushi place like it seems like that would require a lot of skill and clever planning yes except that you know we've been lucky enough at all of our our locations to have we have 10 seats we do 30 people a night they do the menu that we choose for them and we do it seven days a week right so we have a plan it better we know it we know roughly exactly what we're doing and that's typically also part of the reason why we push if you want extras that you get something try something new because we'll bring in four or five extra fish one or two of each just to have extras so that we know that all right we're getting 30 of these 30 of these maybe you want an extra you know Toro or yellowtail or something and that's fine well we always have a little bit extra, but it just keeps it in a constant, you know.

[1816] Right, so you can manage it much easier.

[1817] Now, sushi bar is now no longer you, but this pasta bar that you're doing, like, I'm not familiar with the one that you have in L .A., so what is going to be different about that?

[1818] Like, is it the same sort of a thing, like a tasting menu?

[1819] Yeah, so everything that we do in our group is all tasting menus.

[1820] and so similar to sushi bar you're going to sit right up to the counter the stoves are going to be like if you're sitting there the stoves are where this wall is right here and we're doing i think we're doing about about 13 course tasting menu in that 13 courses unlike sushi you're not going to have 13 bowls of pasta because that would be difficult to have there's about five four five courses that is pasta and then all the other courses are something that kind of help tell the story of like a you know an upscale pasta dinner like what kind of stuff is that um well so you start off always uh with your own loaf of margarita sourdough which is the best sourdough you ever had like hands down tompapa's sourdough i haven't but i can't admit you do you might want to shut your fucking mouth well i'm still going to say my wife's is better i'm sure it's amazing the tompapa's is really good.

[1821] We should have a sourdough off.

[1822] We should.

[1823] I am a giant fan of the Tompapa sourdough.

[1824] Look at that.

[1825] Yeah, so you get, so that's Margarita's sourdough, and then she makes butter.

[1826] God damn, that looks good.

[1827] Why does bread look so good?

[1828] The thing about hers is it's so crunchy, but like it's, the crust is very thin, but it's so crusty.

[1829] And then the inside is just like a pillow, and it's super sour.

[1830] And then she makes butter that.

[1831] It goes with...

[1832] She makes her own butter?

[1833] Yeah.

[1834] Does she churn?

[1835] Do the whole deal?

[1836] Of course.

[1837] I mean, not by hand.

[1838] But, and then, you know, our whole group scratch restaurants is the fact that we don't serve anything we don't make from scratch.

[1839] So, like, the fact that we make the soy sauce and the bread, the butter, the ice creams, the cheeses, whatever.

[1840] So, I mean, here you go.

[1841] This is what's looking like it's on the menu.

[1842] Damn, that looks good.

[1843] So when you make your pasta Now one of the things that I noticed And many people have remarked on this Talked about this one They go to Italy and they have pasta in Italy You don't feel like shit Like there's something about the wheat that they use That has a different reaction In people's bodies And it's been explained to me That it's like was it double zero flour Or something like that?

[1844] Yeah so there's different flowers I mean if you just go and get What they call AP flour that's like that's what you're is going to give you like that kind of really thick, pasty kind of like sit in your stomach.

[1845] And that's it's regular flour that you buy from a grocery store?

[1846] Yeah.

[1847] But there are I mean there's specific flowers that that we use and that that you can get that are that are much different Durham double zero all these different types of flowers.

[1848] What is this double zero stuff that everybody says is the best?

[1849] I shouldn't say everybody.

[1850] Because I've really talked to everybody about it.

[1851] No, but everybody does say it's the best.

[1852] It's become very, very popular in pizzas, in breads.

[1853] And it really is, it's like, I kind of the best way I would sort of describe it is it's much lighter.

[1854] It's much cleaner.

[1855] Is it easier to digest?

[1856] I mean, it feels easier to digest.

[1857] I don't know from like a compound makeup, whether, you know, what it is that makes it different, but it feels much better.

[1858] That's when people describe pasta and pizza in Italy, that they don't use the kind of flour that we have over here.

[1859] Yeah.

[1860] And, you know, Maynard, Keenan from Toole, you know, he has a bunch of restaurants in Arizona.

[1861] Really?

[1862] Yeah, he's a vineyard.

[1863] Yeah, do you didn't know about it?

[1864] No. I knew he had a vineyard.

[1865] I didn't know he had restaurants.

[1866] Yeah, yeah, yeah, his Austerias.

[1867] Very cool.

[1868] Yeah.

[1869] I think, is it Merkin Vineyards, Osterias?

[1870] Is that what he calls him?

[1871] He named his He's such a fucking freak He named his restaurant After a fake Vagina Tupé That's what a Merkin is Merkin vineyards Tasting Room in Austria I don't know him But I've listened to enough tool To know he's an interesting dude Oh he's super interesting Super fucking smart guy And a very cool guy I love him to death But his food By the way If you ever get a chance to eat there The pizza's insane My sister lives in Arizona So I'll have to check it out It's in Scottsdale It's an old town On Scottsdale.

[1872] Yeah, well, we had a UFC in Phoenix, and we drove all the way out to Scottsdale to eat there.

[1873] It was that good.

[1874] But I went to visit him anyway.

[1875] But anyway, his explanation was that when they changed wheat or they started adjusting and manipulating wheat to develop higher yields, that the problem is that that wheat has more complex glutons in it.

[1876] And you definitely get higher yield per acre, but it's more difficult for people to digest.

[1877] Yeah.

[1878] I don't know if that's true, but it makes sense.

[1879] I mean, that's what they say is true.

[1880] Here it is.

[1881] Double zero flour, also known as doppiozio or zero -zero flower, is a finely ground Italian flour commonly used to make pasta and pizza dough in Italy and other parts of Europe grind sizes vary from double zero to two.

[1882] Oh, so it's the size of the grind.

[1883] Double zero is the finest grind and two is the coarsest.

[1884] Huh.

[1885] Is it from different wheat?

[1886] Well, you would imagine just think about...

[1887] Their wheat is just different, period, right?

[1888] Like their food is different.

[1889] Well, of course, yes.

[1890] Their steaks are different.

[1891] They're all grass -fed cows over there.

[1892] But you would imagine if you have something finer rather than more coarse, if you're going to dilute that in water.

[1893] Yes.

[1894] Right?

[1895] Or with whatever you're going to make, you know, use to make your pasta, the finer it is, the more it's going to spread out and become fine for a better...

[1896] Well, it just seems like it'd be easier for your body to break it down.

[1897] Yeah, because it's not as thick.

[1898] thick and as coarse right so are you using um a specific combination of flowers do you do is there a way do you like it so so different pastas are going to have different you know different flowers and different combinations just just for the flavor aspect or the texture yeah so i mean depending on what you're if you're looking for a chewier noodle if you're looking for something that's softer and more pillowy and then you know how the amount of hydration and and there's certain things that go into it to make it specific to what it is you're trying to achieve and did you do this by trial and error this is this something that you learned from you know is that like from come so uh i worked with um i mean i've worked in a lot of restaurants that made fantastic pasta i've never worked in a pasta restaurant so what we're doing at the restaurant right now is sort of a a conglomeration of, you know, really what everybody, you know, the way that I sort of run the restaurants is it really is like a conglomeration of the entire team.

[1899] So anyone who has anything, you know, a value to add, it gets added.

[1900] So, you know, there may be that, you know, this cook has this recipe and this cook has this recipe and we've worked together to kind of develop just like the best recipes that we can do.

[1901] Because I've never been a fan of not being as good as we can because it was only my idea.

[1902] That's interesting.

[1903] So you pick people that you work with that you can collaborate with.

[1904] So like sometimes will someone come to you with an idea of a dish and you guys like talk it through?

[1905] Yeah.

[1906] So we actually at Scratch Bar back in 2017, we used to change the entire menu every single month.

[1907] So 20 new dishes.

[1908] Oh, wow.

[1909] And it would, for the long time, it was just me. Just solely me, just with a notebook, just coming up with new dishes.

[1910] and then eventually I was like, I need to keep the team engaged.

[1911] And also the team would come to me and be like, hey, what do you, we were thinking we want to cook rabbit next month.

[1912] So we started implementing every Friday during family meal.

[1913] It wasn't mandatory.

[1914] You could either stay, eat with the team, and we can talk about what you guys want to cook next month, or you can go and call your girlfriend or whatever.

[1915] And we started really, you know, working together to kind of put these menus together.

[1916] And at this one point, one of our younger cooks had the, idea to do a you say well what if we do something like a bagel and cream cheese and everybody laughed at him and i was like no there's no such thing as a bad idea we have to like what okay so obviously we can't do bagel and cream cheese so what is like i see where you're coming from now how do we get there and we work together over probably about a month and a half and where we got to um you know and i worked with him on how to how to actually think what are we thinking about right so First of all, we have to make everything ourselves.

[1917] We're not making bagels.

[1918] That's not an option.

[1919] So, okay, and how do you do that at a world -class level?

[1920] So instead of making, oh, well, bagel chip, well, I'd have to make a bagel to make a bagel chip.

[1921] So no, how about a cracker?

[1922] Well, if we put caraway in that cracker, then we're going to have the flavor of rye bread, which is going to be reminiscent of a deli, you know, experience.

[1923] Okay, so we have a caraway cracker.

[1924] Okay, we can make our own cream cheese.

[1925] We've done that before, but I love Lachshmere.

[1926] So instead of Lachshmere, maybe we're going to fold in right at the last second, fresh salmon row, you know, smoked salmon row.

[1927] So you're going to put a layer of this homemade cream cheese that's really light and airy because what we do is we would strain off the way and then reincorporate just the amount that we would want, so it would be the right texture.

[1928] And then we thought, okay, we've already got the salmon aspect, so what if we do, what if we smoke sea urchin?

[1929] and we put that on top.

[1930] And then we dehydrated small little red onions, which gave you the flavor of an onion bagel.

[1931] And then you eat this little thing.

[1932] It was this big.

[1933] And it was like, okay, we figured out how to take this idea, which everyone laughed at, and turn it into something at a world -class level.

[1934] Wow.

[1935] Now, why would you know, you said, like, almost matter -of -factly, we're not making bagels.

[1936] Like, why would you not make bagels?

[1937] I mean, it's a very difficult thing to do.

[1938] And we're not, I mean, scratch bars you saw a picture of it were not set up to be a bagel factory they're kind of boiled right they are but the thing is what's really difficult about being a restaurant where you have to make everything yourself is like if we're going to make something that everyone's used to we have to make it better than that and I've never made bagels and I that's a huge undertaking to like put a bagel program on the on the team just so we can have this one dish So we're not making bagels Because there's a lot of variation In like the level of bagel You know, it's really interesting And we want to whatever we put out Like if we cook a steak It's gotta be like fuck That's the best steak I've ever had Fuck, that was the best whatever Now when we put out this final product That was this big people would take a bite And they'd go fuck That's kind of like a bagel and cream cheese But fucking good And if I gave him a bagel that wasn't as good And the guy from New York's like This isn't as good as the bagel I grew up with Then I'm you know I'm fucked Yeah, just don't have people in New York, and New York people are very particular about their pizza and very particular about their bagels.

[1939] But I think they're right, unfortunately.

[1940] They may be.

[1941] They may be.

[1942] We had good bagels in L .A. I haven't found a good bagel here yet.

[1943] I've heard it explain to me that there's something about the water in New York.

[1944] So I realized, I hired a chef who was working at the restaurant.

[1945] I was really excited for him to try my favorite bagels in L .A. and he tried it and he's like this isn't very good and I was like I don't understand it's really good and I realized that the bagels he grew up with are different the bagels I grew up with he's like this is really soft with like a crispy exterior and I was like yeah he's like no it's supposed to be chewy supposed to hurt your jaw and I was like why would I want to do that interesting but he was explaining to me like the culture of bagels and why you want this and I was like yeah I like this one Yeah.

[1946] It's a flavor profile, though.

[1947] The difference in the flavor of bread from bread is probably the best example because Italian bread from New York or New Jersey has a very particular flavor profile that's unavailable from when you get bread in California for the most part.

[1948] Yeah.

[1949] To be honest, I've not spent enough time in New York.

[1950] I've probably been there two or three times for like weekends.

[1951] Really?

[1952] Yeah, I haven't spent a lot of time there.

[1953] Oh, wow, that's kind of crazy because that's like one of the culinary capitals of the world.

[1954] Wouldn't you imagine, right?

[1955] I would imagine, but I haven't.

[1956] That's funny.

[1957] Yeah.

[1958] When, you know, when you create these restaurants, do you have any desire of doing something that is not a tasting menu?

[1959] Or is that just you prefer being in complete control of the experience?

[1960] I prefer tasting menus, especially now post -pandemic in the way the way the world.

[1961] world is going.

[1962] It's, you know, you ask the perfect question, how do you inventory?

[1963] It's not difficult to inventory when you know exactly what you're selling.

[1964] And if I have 30 people coming in in a 20 item menu, how do I have, like, what if everybody eyes the ribeye have to throw away all the chicken?

[1965] Right.

[1966] Or I have to sell the chicken when it's past its prime and not very good, and then people won't come back because it wasn't very good.

[1967] Right.

[1968] So beyond that, I just, we've found our success in these sort of experientially driven sort of fine dining tasting menus it's also what I enjoy the most I'm someone who like when I look at a menu at a restaurant I get a little bit of anxiety I don't I'm like I get upset because I'm like I don't know what to order there's 30 things on here and I you know this is I would much rather go to a restaurant we're like hey we're really good at this so we're going to cook you this well it works and I love that you know you can just think you don't have to think about anything just waiting for the next piece of food.

[1969] That's all you have to do.

[1970] Well, it's, I mean, I mean, you don't go to a movie and then tell it what you want it to do for you, you know?

[1971] It's like you go to a restaurant because they serve the food you want or you like the chef and what they've done in the past.

[1972] And then you say, okay, I would, I would really, I would enjoy whatever you cook for me or I would like to enjoy it.

[1973] Well, one of the things that I loved about the sushi bar experience is that it's a communal experience.

[1974] Like everybody's experiencing the exact same piece of sushi at the exact same.

[1975] time.

[1976] Yeah.

[1977] So we're all sitting around this bar together and you say, please enjoy.

[1978] Yeah.

[1979] And then people eat it and they go, oh, and everybody looks around like, ooh, I love it.

[1980] And you hear the noises and everything.

[1981] Yeah.

[1982] And it's such a small room.

[1983] There's, you know, what do you guys have 10 people?

[1984] 10 seats.

[1985] 10 seats.

[1986] I mean, that's.

[1987] Yeah.

[1988] So that's what, so in March, we're opening another sushi restaurant here in Austin.

[1989] Um, the, uh, the ranch won't open until probably August, September, because we have a lot of, like, infrastructure work to do, but March, we're opening a new sushi spot here.

[1990] And where's that going to be?

[1991] Can you tell you?

[1992] It's going to be, I can't say exactly yet, but it's going to be a little bit outside of town.

[1993] It's going to be about 10 minutes past the airport.

[1994] And that would be Omicasse as well.

[1995] It'll be the idea.

[1996] So it's going to be called sushi by scratch restaurants, which is what the L .A. or the L .A. and Montecito, sushi bars are there becoming as well.

[1997] and it'll essentially be the same, well, I don't want to say the same like we've just phoned in another one, but it's going to be another of the same concept.

[1998] And by the way, your brother catered Andrew Schultz's wedding.

[1999] Yeah, I broke his balls about that a little bit.

[2000] He, I mean, it turns out Andrew's wife, her parents, I've known them for years.

[2001] Oh, that's crazy.

[2002] Up in Montecito.

[2003] And so I've actually met his wife a couple times, not knowing, you know.

[2004] But Lennon didn't know that, didn't know who, like, who wasn't told, just told, hey, can you cater my daughter's wedding?

[2005] And that was it.

[2006] Oh, that's funny.

[2007] Yeah.

[2008] It was a fun party, though.

[2009] And the sushi was off the hook.

[2010] Yeah, I'm sure it was.

[2011] Tell your brother, he nailed it.

[2012] Yeah.

[2013] Well, you're telling him that right now.

[2014] You nailed it.

[2015] I was posted up there.

[2016] I ate a fucking couple of pounds of sushi.

[2017] Yeah, he told me. Well, listen, man, please let us know when, as soon as your new place, is up.

[2018] I'll post about that too and I'll fuck up your waiting list there too.

[2019] Yeah.

[2020] Well, we're, um, we are, uh, by the time this goes up.

[2021] Well, sushi by scratch restaurants .com will be up and running.

[2022] Nice.

[2023] And, uh, people can go on and join the wait list and, uh, we'll actually release the reservations probably in the next week or so.

[2024] All right.

[2025] Beautiful.

[2026] Well, thank you, brother.

[2027] It's been great becoming your friend and, uh, what you do and it comes to your, your food is fucking sensational.

[2028] I, I didn't think sushi could be that good.

[2029] I really didn't.

[2030] It's, it's, It was a new eye -opening experience, so thank you for that.

[2031] Thank you.

[2032] And thank you for this awesome whiskey.

[2033] Yeah, that's stuff special.

[2034] Be careful with that, though, because by the time you finish it, there may not be another bottle.

[2035] You live.

[2036] Sure, sure.

[2037] You consume.

[2038] Keep moving.

[2039] Keep moving, Philip.

[2040] Thank you very much.

[2041] Absolutely.

[2042] People want to follow you on Instagram.

[2043] Yeah.

[2044] Philip Franklin Lee is mine, and then we have sushi by scratch restaurants, which is all of our sushi bars.

[2045] Pasta Bar, Austin, and Pasta Bar, L .A. Dazzal, Instagram, everything else?

[2046] Yeah.

[2047] I don't think we're on.

[2048] We might be on Facebook, I don't know.

[2049] Yeah, figure it out.

[2050] Yeah.

[2051] Figure it out, folks.

[2052] Follow me and you'll find it.

[2053] I'll post about it for sure.

[2054] All right.

[2055] Thanks, brother.

[2056] Appreciate you.

[2057] Thank you.

[2058] Bye, everybody.