#646 - Dr. Dan Engle & Aubrey Marcus

[0] We're live?

[1] Like, just like that?

[2] Seems like there should be some sort of like a chime we ring.

[3] Ding!

[4] Just a big gong, a five -footer.

[5] Not a big gong.

[6] Big gons are obnoxious.

[7] It's because you're just going to talk.

[8] Be a big gong if you're going to have like a fucking Cirque de Soleil experience.

[9] A bunch of dudes come out flipping with fire and do fucking juggle flames.

[10] Or a kumete.

[11] A good kumatay in your gong.

[12] Yes, a good kumatay.

[13] Bong.

[14] Dr. Dan, you got a notebook.

[15] over there dude what do you go what are you going on here well i saw you guys with uh all these note pads so you just wanted to make sure i'm prepared so what's going on man well 27 years of school i get used to taking notes uh dr dan angle here with uh abry motherfucking marcos in the house and uh we started to sit down and talk shoot the shit we just got done doing 200 and some degrees below zero cryotherapy sessions your first time ever in the full body one full head immersion yeah it's the real one right it's the real deal yeah you can only get those in a couple of places right now that's that's ultimately going to be what it is it's going to be the difference being the other ones they pour it's like nitrogen all over your skin like a frozen nitrogen sort of thing but you can't breathe it that's why your head is above but this what they do is they freeze the air instead and you go in there and it's just fucking ungodly insanely cold and you wear a mouth like a surgeon's mask over your face and earmuffs and gloves and those rubber cloth it's the only time we're allowed to wear rubber crocs those crock clog things and not feel like an asshole yeah but um what'd you experience with that you know i think for me a key part is getting that upper half of my body in the in the tank you know we have the wanted on it that's awesome for any kind of inflammation of my legs, my knees, my, you know, my hips is really good.

[16] But then getting that, like, so that cold's getting into your eye sockets and the colds getting into your, the temples of your head.

[17] I found it really relaxing, actually.

[18] A lot of people think it gives a lot of energy.

[19] I found it, like, deeply relaxing.

[20] After you got out, you were really relaxed.

[21] That's interesting.

[22] Yeah.

[23] Yeah, everybody seems to have a different reaction to it.

[24] Robin was talking about that after it was over.

[25] He was saying that some people feel like an endorphin crash at the end of the day.

[26] Like, you have this big rush when you get.

[27] get out of there, and the end of the day, you're very tired, which I found really weird, because I don't get that at all.

[28] I get out of there, and I'm like, I feel fucking great.

[29] I'm addicted to that thing.

[30] Yeah, I bet.

[31] Your first time doing it ever?

[32] Have you done the...

[33] First time.

[34] Have you done the one that they have it on it?

[35] Nope.

[36] Today was my debut.

[37] Would you guys do two and a half minutes like pussies?

[38] Is that what happened?

[39] I mean, two and a half hours, at least in there.

[40] I don't know.

[41] It's a long time, I think.

[42] Yeah, it's three minutes in, a few minutes.

[43] out and then three minutes back in it's a great way to start the day it's a very addictive though if you had one near your house man you get addicted it's more addictive than the one with your head above it for whatever reason because there's something about like you survive it you know and like there's like this weird like once you get out of there it's like yes i'm back to yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes you know you start fucking hot footing around the room you know it just you feel like you survived and you want to go back and do it again yeah there's a crucible element to it where it's like this is something i accomplished for sure yeah i feel that would you get out of it dan i watched my system go into the survival mode yeah like that last minute well as a doctor like must have been interesting knowing the functions of the body intimately.

[44] Yeah, I'm always curious about health recovery, the crucible experience, putting ourselves in these really extreme situations.

[45] And then that last minute, the first one was pretty much a piece of cake.

[46] The second one, I was cold straight off.

[47] And in that last minute, I went in these involuntary shakes.

[48] And I'm watching my body just jump around like a little race car inside.

[49] I'm like, whew, maybe I can just work on tuning this down a little.

[50] little bit and I'm like zenning dropping doing whatever I Jimmy Hendricks was playing in the background and nothing was working and it was just like hyperdrive so I'm just watching this thing going like trippy so it's this like significant mind body separation I had no control over that experience so as far as being put in the crucible like this survival experience like when I came out that I definitely felt like I had crossed some kind of threshold of an experience that I wouldn't have had otherwise.

[51] Have you ever done the ice bath, you know, those things we climb into the thing that's filled with ice and water?

[52] Have you done that one?

[53] Those are miserable.

[54] Yeah.

[55] Those are miserable?

[56] More miserable, right?

[57] I think they're more miserable, yeah, because your toes get to another level of frozen as well.

[58] It's a wet cold.

[59] It just soaks, it really soaks in.

[60] It gets deep into your bones.

[61] Yeah.

[62] It feels good, though, too.

[63] You pop out of that.

[64] You actually feel warmer, I think, when you come out of that for some real, there's like a number.

[65] There's like a number.

[66] numbness that happens that makes you feel weirdly warm, whereas the cryo, you still feel a little cold when you're...

[67] Have you ever gone in the Pacific Ocean in, like, January?

[68] I used to live out here, yeah.

[69] Yeah.

[70] We'd go out there.

[71] Yeah, that's chilly.

[72] But you know that feeling like you really shouldn't be warm when you get outside?

[73] Because it's only like 70 degrees outside, but you're like, ah.

[74] That 70 feels so good.

[75] Yeah, totally.

[76] There's something about, we were discussing this, about forcing the body to react to the sauna, Dr. Rhonda Patrick, who wrote that really fascinating paper on the effects of sauna, and she's a huge proponent of sauna, and the reaction that your body has to this extreme heat of the sauna, so your body compensates in some way for that, and then when it realizes it's just temporary situation, you get the benefit of that compensation without actually being in some life -threatening position where your body has to, you know, fire up all the these protection systems.

[77] Yeah, all kinds of things going on.

[78] You've got creation of heat shock proteins.

[79] You've got all of these biochemical processes going on, plus just that general thing that the body needs.

[80] Body needs resistance.

[81] You know, it needs germs when you're a kid.

[82] It needs to squeeze through the vaginal canal and pick up all the goo when you're young to get acclimatized.

[83] It needs, you know, workouts when you're old and bigger, things to stress the muscles.

[84] It needs things to stress the system all the way across the board.

[85] It's just the way humans are built.

[86] We're not built for a cakewalk.

[87] Yeah, we're built to deal with whatever the fuck we have to deal with.

[88] And if you make your body deal with almost nothing, what you get is like a spoiled child that can't handle any sort of, you know, any, any negative or any conflict, any problems, anything that's offline or it requires character or resolve.

[89] Yeah, like you meet those people who grew up in the wilderness and they're like they can eat more foods than you can they can they don't get sick as often they're just more resilient you know like my friend bode who grew up in new hampshire you know it's like what he can put his body through from just growing up on a farm with no running water and hardly any electricity and just kind of cruising around from a young age climbing mountains and skiing down even when he was freezing like he can deal with shit in a different way than someone who's just been put your coat on sweetie make sure you your scarf is all tied up, you know.

[90] It's like a different level of savagery that has actually allowed him to train harder for his sport and, you know, be better because his body was used to dealing with tough shit from an early age.

[91] Yeah, that's, it's fascinating because people, and I'm guilty of it, we want to protect our children from adversity.

[92] Yeah.

[93] But adversities, it builds character.

[94] So it's like, you know, you want your kids to be safe.

[95] Sure.

[96] But the only way to make them safe is to put them in day.

[97] Right.

[98] You know, like, everybody that I know that'll be fine.

[99] They're all dudes who've gone through some horrific shit in their life.

[100] You know, I know I'll leave that dude, he'll be fine, you know?

[101] Right.

[102] Well, the people that can't handle it, the ones that'll fall apart, they're the ones that their mom wipe their ass until they're 11 years old.

[103] Fucked.

[104] They're fucked.

[105] It doesn't work.

[106] Humans are just a flawed thing.

[107] Well, I mean, we're kind of designed in that sort of weird way.

[108] Well, we're designed for this savage world.

[109] I mean, this world is not, it's beautiful, and I'd love it, but it's not easy, and it was never intended to be easy.

[110] You know, and so we're designed to have to learn from these and get stronger because of our environment.

[111] We separate ourselves from the environment.

[112] The human ceases to be what it was originally designed to be, which is a being that reacts to the pressures of its environment.

[113] You isolate it, and then we don't have that resistance anymore, and we turn out like a blob.

[114] Well, there was a study that I tweeted yesterday about that.

[115] sort of in a direct relation to that, about young men today that are addicted to pornography and video games.

[116] And they're going through this masculinity crisis.

[117] So it's this psychological breakdown of young men in our society today because they're not going through any real adversity.

[118] They're not going through any real rights of passage, pushing themselves physically.

[119] No, what they're doing is they're just beating off and playing video games.

[120] it's like this weird world that they live in where they're kind of like their symbiotic relationship with a couch and an Xbox controller right yeah what do you think is going to happen with that what the downstream effects there Dr. Dan yeah yeah I think they've seen that study I haven't seen the study you're talking about but that makes perfect sense we're having like two divergent populations where some people are are really seeking these kinds of experiences where they're able to stress their system grow their potential, become their best selves.

[121] And you have another people that, because they don't have a connection to what's happening, they don't have a connection to purpose, passion, drive, inspiration.

[122] They're not mentor.

[123] They're not going through these rights of pastors.

[124] They're not going through any kind of supportive exploration of themselves in the world.

[125] They're just finding ways to distract themselves and find some kind of pleasure in the big craziness of it all.

[126] So in the midst of that, you're going to have this massive widening between these two divergent populations.

[127] It's so seductive on the video game, though, because you think you're improving yourself.

[128] Because you have these characters that are avatars that are you to an actual real population of people who identify you as that character.

[129] And then the more work you put into that character, the more you improve it.

[130] It improves their skills.

[131] They get richer.

[132] They get badass shit, like the equivalent of rims that's spills.

[133] you know, on their weapons, and then they get level 40, 50, 60, and then you're really swinging a big dick out there, you know, when you're that big.

[134] So it's this seductive thing of they do feel like they're improving, but they're not actually.

[135] Yeah, how do you actualize that in the world?

[136] Well, is that the case, or is it this, are we in some sort of a transitionary period between a physical, biological, carbon -based cellular life and a digital life?

[137] because once, if we really do transition to a digital life, which there's a lot of speculation from legitimate scientists and people that are looking at the curve of learning and the exponential growth of technology, and they're like, look, this is inevitable.

[138] We're not going to be physical beings for that much longer.

[139] Like, it's pretty obvious that we're going to eventually incorporate with machines and to the point where the concept of living in a virtual world, a world where you can just put on these headsets and go into the world of Avatar and live out this intense, unbelievably rich existence inside this artificially created world is going to be so much more appealing and attractive.

[140] And I think that's what we're seeing with these kids.

[141] When they're playing Call of Duty or in these other games, it's so much better than going out and being a regular teenager with no job prospects, no skills, nothing unique about you, Nothing particularly challenging in your life other than, you know, feeding yourself and getting to bed on time.

[142] You know, it's just nothing there.

[143] But they can go into this world and this fucking bullets flying overhead and they're all talking on headsets and trying to set up an ambush to go get the enemy and da -da -da -da -da -da -da -th and helicopters are flying overhead.

[144] And that's way more exciting.

[145] It's way more exciting.

[146] And this is just the beginnings of this digital.

[147] world.

[148] I mean, these are artificial realities that they exist in.

[149] But they're so clearly artificial that we don't think of them that way.

[150] We think of them as a video game.

[151] But once it becomes something that's indistinguishable, once it's something that's going on inside your head, I mean, how many years are we really away from something where you put it on and it has electrodes that react with various areas in your brain where they can stimulate these areas and reproduce insane visual effects, physical effects, that the feeling of your foot on gravel as you're running down this beach, like you feel it in your feet.

[152] I mean, how long before they can do that?

[153] It's not that far off.

[154] It's way closer than going to another planet.

[155] It's way closer than, you know, setting up a colony on the moon.

[156] They're pretty fucking close to doing this.

[157] This is a decade away at most.

[158] It's a kind of a weird, exciting, but terrifying thought.

[159] Very terrifying.

[160] You know, I mean, you want to think, you want to hold out and think, oh, the real world will be better.

[161] I know it.

[162] They won't get the smells right.

[163] They'll screw something up, you know?

[164] But it's very possible that eventually they can create virtual worlds that will be pretty satisfying.

[165] But I don't know.

[166] I just, like, I want to hold out faith.

[167] Maybe it's just a desire, a romantic desire.

[168] I want to hold out faith that doing something for reals, for reals, you know, feeling your real body underneath you.

[169] Maybe it's just even the knowledge that it's for reals, for reals.

[170] It just seems like that would be better, you know?

[171] Yeah, for now.

[172] But if it continues to improve and grow, it seems like it's going to be, like, way more satisfying to live in that world.

[173] It sounds like you're talking about the Matrix, right?

[174] So then it really depends on who's the puppet master and what the agenda is to make who's creating the Matrix, yeah.

[175] And for what outcome, for what reason?

[176] Yeah, could the Matrix be something that the user creates?

[177] I mean, could it be autonomous?

[178] Could the user decide what kind of experience?

[179] And then what?

[180] You're just going to be the king of the Matrix?

[181] You're just going to be Genghis Khan and fucking all these women and cutting everybody's heads off and never lose a war.

[182] I mean, is that?

[183] What are we going to do?

[184] Alan Watts kind of talks about that.

[185] Like, when you get total control of something, it becomes boring.

[186] And so then you would want to naturally add in elements of risk, add in elements of uncertainty because then it becomes exciting again.

[187] So actually probably the progression will be, if you listen to that Alan Watts Inception video, the progression will be, you know, you go and you do that.

[188] You get to be Genghis Khan, you have sex with 100 ,000 women, you raid all these places, you win everything, and then all of a sudden you make it more difficult so you don't know if you're going to win.

[189] And then to make it exciting, you don't know if you're going to get late again.

[190] And then all of a sudden you reprogram it back and realize, holy shit, life was what I really wanted all along.

[191] It has all the uncertainty and challenge that makes this thing really fun.

[192] Otherwise, it's all fucking boring.

[193] Or we find out that life itself is actually just a virtual reality.

[194] And that we've all this time been living in this incredibly realistic simulation.

[195] Cool.

[196] I'll give the programmer a high five because the shit's awesome.

[197] It's pretty good.

[198] They did a good job.

[199] I mean, they set up all the preposterous.

[200] aspects that make you question its reality.

[201] Like the Chris Christie thing we were talking about today was in the news that he spent some fucking ungodly amount of money.

[202] You know, if you don't know who Chris Christie is, he's the governor of New Jersey and he's an enormously morbidly overweight gentleman who wants to run for president and also wants to make sure that people don't smoke marijuana because marijuana is bad for you unlike massively overeating, which apparently is not that bad for you.

[203] But this is the, it seems like it's not real when you read this.

[204] He spent $82 ,000 of taxpayer money on food at NFL games.

[205] You know how much, like food costs it in NFL games?

[206] Not much.

[207] It's like $8 for a sausage.

[208] How much he has to eat?

[209] It's insane.

[210] How much money he spent.

[211] But this is all taxpayer money.

[212] This is why it's so fucked up, man. God it's insane it's hard to believe you know one thing that they will never get right in one of these experiences though is like the true mystical experience you know in this virtual reality world going to sit and drink ayahuasca virtually is not going to be the same as sitting down hearing the ikoros the sound of the jungle and drinking that in reality like that dimension is so different than what I think could ever be programmed so at least I think we got that one we can hold out for maybe well that was what McKenna believed they were gonna be able to they he believed that the DMT experience was gonna be accessible to people through virtual reality first he said that most people are not gonna be willing to take the leap of faith that it takes to light the the DMT and take it into your lungs and visit the spirit realm and he really thought that the way they were going to create it was someone was going to figure out how to make a virtual reality version of a DMT experience and that was what and he thought that if you did do that you would actually contact the real DMT realm and you would actually there would be a way that they would enter through that gate obviously he did wait to me he went too far that guy went too far his own brother admits that yeah he was amazing he was an amazing bard and he had some incredible ideas because of that but that was one of the big ones well you can duplicate the the visuals but the creativity and the specificity of what the messages that come across i mean it's not just random it doesn't work for everybody it's not like picking up a you know an astrology book where it's kind to work for most people or whatever you know it's this is specific information for you that comes out you know and i think that that true connection with whatever that other place in your brain is or that other world, you know, the astral world, whatever you want to call it, your vocabulary permits, that true access allows this kind of really unique message to come through that's just tailored for you.

[213] And that's why it's so effective.

[214] Yeah, that is one of the weird and unique aspects of psychedelic experiences.

[215] It's almost like what you need at that time finds you.

[216] It's like, almost like there's an assessment of your overall predicament and go, oh, look, this, why these things keep going on jim lost the connection to the htm i to show you guys the stuff show us what the anything i can't show you anything oh that's okay don't worry about it um goddamn trycaster shitty fucking machine um but it seems like they it it finds whatever whatever hole you've got and then fills it in like oh you just shove this in that hole and now you're gonna get a a sense of what's wrong and you're going to get a sort of a depiction or a picture of what the errors on your operating system are yep that it finds it is that what you think it makes psychedelic research so appealing is that it's tailoring like dialing in a specific solution for each individual from a psychiatric standpoint yeah i think there are a couple of different opportunities that it it presents which is bringing up to the surface that very thing that we're ready to receive that we didn't realize was right there.

[217] And it also helps to rewrite the neurochemistry and reboot the neuroindicrine system to let you actualize it and move it forward into your life.

[218] So the psychedelics right now, the whole resurgence of psychedelic research is showing how well they work for the very aspects that psychiatry is really weak at, addiction recovery, treatment -resistant depression, chronic severe PTSD, end -of -life transition issues, all the areas that psychiatry is really stuck at, the psychedelics are very good at, and there's a wide breadth of the psychedelics that are available.

[219] And then we get really crafty and being able to recognize because of what this person is going through, what might be the best psychedelic to use for them in the right setting so in the right set and setting you get this opportunity to really actualize your best self to realize what you weren't looking at to face your shit to work through that and then to see the path of becoming even better that's a there's a really good points the the drug addiction one is a really good point the end of life transition is another really good point and PTSD even you know traumatic stress so i mean it could be as a horrific as war or as seemingly simple but unbelievably traumatic as a breakup you know there's some people that go through breakups and they think their fucking life is over they think it's over I mean they think like I can't go on like this like this loss is too much for my soul to bear and then they do ecstasy and they go I'm gonna be fine I'm gonna be fun that guy's an asshole why was it even living with him in the first place oh she was ruining my life I didn't realize she was running my life.

[220] Oh my God, I'm just like a bitch.

[221] I'm just a bitch clinging to this fucking ridiculous idea that this woman is going to save me or this man is going to save me. Yeah.

[222] We were talking just the other day about the prevalence of suicide in young teenage girls in certain communities, particularly in native cultures.

[223] And there's studies that show that young adolescents, both girls and boys, but particularly with girls, they have a significant resolution of anxiety that's related to how they view themselves going through only one session of ayahuasca.

[224] Wow.

[225] That's incredible, man. Wow.

[226] So that's really, we're talking about, like, rites of passage, those ceremonies, those experiences really help people mature, self -actualize, be able to recognize who they really are and not have so much that's invested in who they think they need to be.

[227] and these relationships that when they fall away, like this crazy thing that happens with internet bullying online, and it just really shatters these young people's self -esteem, and they end up checking out.

[228] Like, that's too much.

[229] That just completely collapsed their worldview.

[230] And there's no idea.

[231] They cannot imagine themselves going through that in a successful way, so it's better to check out.

[232] They also can't imagine that this bullying is horrible as it is.

[233] If you get through it and you gain perspective, it'll actually help you later in life.

[234] Like, you will now have tools to deal with shitty human beings that you may perhaps run into.

[235] And counterintuitively, you will greatly appreciate the kind people around you in a way that you might not appreciate them.

[236] It's like people in L .A. don't appreciate the sun.

[237] Right.

[238] Bitches there every day.

[239] Just nagging you.

[240] Got to put on your sunglasses.

[241] You know, but go to Seattle or go to, go to fucking Columbus, Ohio in the winter where every day is cloudy gray, that gray sky winter thing, the Buffalo winter.

[242] You've ever been to Buffalo, New York?

[243] I mean, if it's the winter and you don't get any clouds, you're like, what is happening?

[244] Look at the sky.

[245] It's blue.

[246] It's supposed to be blue.

[247] But you just get used to that shit.

[248] And when you do see the sun, it's a magical creature that's come down to give you happiness.

[249] form of vitamin D and warmth.

[250] It feels like love.

[251] Yeah, the way it feels in your skin.

[252] We're used to that.

[253] Like, oh my God, it's so hot.

[254] You know, we're used to that here.

[255] We've been so effective at taking away all of the really challenging things and expecting not to have challenging things that I think it's going to take intention to intentionally put those back through rituals, through rites of passage, through these terrifying, scary ordeals that you have to go through in order to get used to that paradigm again.

[256] You know, I mean, that's, I think we're getting to the point now where we're so good at removing the environmental ones, we're going to have to go with intention to put them back.

[257] And even back in scary times, they had intentions to do that.

[258] You go to some tribes who live in the jungle, which is a hard -ass place to live, and they're still sticking their hands in oven mitts of bullet ants.

[259] Right, right.

[260] There's still fashioning bungee cords out of vines and moldy ropes and stuff and jumping off towers, you know, to show that they're, show their fearlessness.

[261] And even in our day, we have everything easy, so we have nothing environmental, and we're not doing anything else intentional.

[262] Yeah, and this is definitely not to imply that bullying is in any way good.

[263] No. You know, it's awful.

[264] People that are mean, I always wonder what that is when you see, like, kids that are shitty to other kids.

[265] You know, like, you see that, like, the instinct that they have to be shitty or they see weakness and they poke at it and they push it.

[266] It's not good.

[267] but even in bad things the counter to those bad things you can somehow or another get benefit from it and that benefit will make you stronger and that's it's really fascinating like what we're talking about the sauna or what we were talking about going through adversity in life like all these things you seem it seems to be almost a law that the universe has that the ebb and flow of things the push and the pull of things I mean I don't think it's a fucking I don't think it's a coincidence that these bad motherfuckers keep coming out of Siberia.

[268] Look at all these Ruslan Pravodnikov, you know, these boxers that are coming out of the Soviet Union now and especially Siberia.

[269] Like, they're fucking monsters.

[270] You know?

[271] Kovalev, these guys are monsters and they're coming out of Russia.

[272] It's holy shit in Russia.

[273] So they develop a different kind of human being because they're surviving.

[274] all the time, and in surviving, they're growing.

[275] One of the traditions there in Siberia is to go swim in the river in a lot of places.

[276] They go swim in the river every morning, like in military cadet training historically, like the Siberian cadets would have to go in and jump in this freezing -ass water every morning to help toughen them up.

[277] I mean, they got that idea there, and that's the healthy way to do it.

[278] Obviously, bullying is this really insiduous kind of, you know, psychological attack that's really hard to see and really hard to look at as a stress like that.

[279] But, yeah, I mean, building those things in your life, it's going to make it, it's going to be positive.

[280] And that's what sports do for us.

[281] Like sports are really, sports in the military are really the only way that we have access to these really readily here.

[282] And I kind of think that for bullies even, the act of bullying is extremely damaging just to do it.

[283] I mean, it only makes sense that it is, right?

[284] You are causing.

[285] all these bad feelings for all these people that don't deserve it.

[286] They didn't do anything to you.

[287] You're finding a weakness or finding a deficit in their strength and attacking it.

[288] Well, you're doing it to yourself, you know, in the truth.

[289] You know, as the platinum rule would say, you're really doing it to you living a different life.

[290] And that's really difficult for the higher self, you know, the conscious self to deal with because you're hurting yourself in a very real way.

[291] Yeah, you don't appreciate yourself.

[292] You know, you don't appreciate yourself.

[293] who you are because you don't respect it because you know you're kind of a bitch fucking with people that don't deserve it but you know it's just it's a weird it's a weird instinct that children have because having children and watching it like seeing it like seeing it on the playground like seeing watching little boys push other little boys for no reason watching how it goes down it's a very bizarre behavior and I and I I'm I've been struggling with it recently not struggling with it or analyzing it's a better sense trying to figure out when I do see it like what is what's the is there an evolutionary advantage to any of this is there a reason why this exists or is this just from the harsh days of old where you're just trying to find the weak wolf and kick it the fuck out of the clan because if you don't you know the pack won't be strong you got to get rid of all the bitches do you cower when i come near you are you cowering you fucking get the fuck out of here you kick him out of the goddamn tribe and send them out into the woods to die on their own you know and i think there's it's awful But I got to think that's why wolves do it.

[294] You know, and wolves sense like some wolf that's going to fall apart under pressure.

[295] Like, you fucking pussy.

[296] Like, we can't hunt moose with you.

[297] You know, you're going to get tired, you bitch.

[298] You know, get the fuck out of here.

[299] And that's exactly why humans have had these rituals before, you know, these different rites of passage.

[300] Will this person buckle under pressure?

[301] You know, will they fold when it comes to him?

[302] It's like that person you walk up to on a water slide and you, wait in line for a goddamn hour with them and then they get to the top of the water slide.

[303] I can't do it.

[304] I can't do it.

[305] Let me down.

[306] You're like, you gotta be fucking kidding.

[307] I waited an hour to go down this thing and I'm not even excited about it.

[308] You know, like that person, you got to weed that out early because what if you're on a life and death situation?

[309] They needed to know that.

[310] If Duncan was here right now.

[311] You're talking about me, man. Stop talking about me. I'm right here.

[312] Yeah.

[313] I mean, that's and that was the old way.

[314] And I think that's what we got to bring back but we can't do it in these like anonymous Facebook bullying, cyber.

[315] It's too complicated a stress for the human brain to handle because we're not equipped evolutionarily to handle that kind of stress.

[316] I think we should call each other to courage and call each other to face these different things, but not in that way, not in a mean way, not in a way like, come on, let's go.

[317] Let's see what we can do together here.

[318] Do it in a different way.

[319] Yeah, the other thing about the idea of the cyber world, the idea of virtual worlds, is that the people that are playing, you know, fill in the blank, Halo or any of these crazy games, getting really good at it, they're not experiencing the character development that someone would have if they got really good at, you know, whatever, jiu -jitsu or, you know, fill -in -the -blank, something incredibly difficult, you know, where you see, like, when you meet someone who's, really truly great at something anything where they put in incredible amount of hard work and out of that hard work has emerged as a truly unique talent that's something that's something fascinating to watch like there's a quality to those people have that you don't get from cyber game players and that's weird I wonder what that is because it's obviously difficult to get really good at playing a video game it's obviously there's something rewarding about it because they love to do it they love to kick other people's asses in those video games but I don't necessarily think it translates into that character development in the real world like as in a personality sense and in fact there's like a lot I mean when you talk about like people that are like cyber game players one of the big characterizations whether it's fair or not is that they're really awkward dorks right like that's the number one way you think of like someone who plays video games all day oh Jesus Christ what's this guy like to hang out with when you know get him outside you know and that's you know you're seeing a different type of player now like I know you know some people we've work with they'll do yoga and they'll like try to focus on that so you're starting to see a different type of that but I do agree for sure with your initial point and I think the the idea is that you know real consciousness is its home is in the body.

[320] And people think of like mind and consciousness and body is all separate.

[321] Really, when you're truly conscious, it's when everything is like sucked into one entity.

[322] It's a true presence of being where you're physically embodying your consciousness.

[323] And when you're just using your mind and your thumbs, it's almost like you're separating yourself from a key element of consciousness, which is embodied consciousness.

[324] So you're working on a level of mastery that's really very narrow, you know?

[325] That's a good point.

[326] that's a really good point that must be what it is right what it must be is like you're neglecting your body because you're sitting in a couch all day and your fucking back is hunched at the end of the day I mean how many video game players have fucking horrible backs it's got to be a lot right if you're playing all day hunched over a computer you're going blind and your back is turned to shit going blind from the masturbation because that causes blindness that too that's what I hear yeah that's what Kellogg would tell us do you ever deal with anybody I mean I know have you worked with people that have addictions?

[327] Have you ever worked with people that have, like, non -chemical addictions or non -chemical in the traditional sense, like video game addictions or gambling addictions?

[328] Oh, yeah.

[329] Yeah, I'm affiliated with an organization called Crossroads.

[330] That's an Ibegain treatment center.

[331] And we're also building the first psychedelic research institute there.

[332] When people go through Ibegain, it rewrites the neurochemistry.

[333] It reboots that whole pathway.

[334] and that pathway is set up for an addictive profile doesn't matter what the addiction is it's the same chemical pathway and that could that addiction could be heroin methamphetamine cocaine it could be work sex video games whatever it's that same chemical pathway that's also associated with what checked sent me high called flow states it's that dopamine neurochemical pathway so when you channel that focus that prime direction into a productive way that can elucidate the flow state and that flow state is essentially like your prime focus on the current experience to the exclusion of everything else that's just like any kind of addiction that the mind can't rewrite it can't move away from so the definition of addiction is essentially like getting stuck in these repetitive loops with something as the focus even in the midst of detrimental experience you can't You can't shift.

[335] You can't break that cycle.

[336] So it's doing something over and over and over, even though you know that there's a bad consequence.

[337] So is an addiction essentially almost like a side effect of the process that's involved in us getting good at something?

[338] Because I've always found that in getting anything that I become obsessed with, anything that I really start wanting to get good at, it starts to permeate my life.

[339] oftentimes in an uncomfortable way, where it's going on that, like, Eddie Bravo and I used to talk about this all the time with jujitsu, that you would have, like, this underlying operating system that was always doing jujitsu, that you would be, if you were in a conversation with somebody and they wanted to talk to you about, well, what the Democrats got to do is, you know, highlight the fact we've created all these new jobs.

[340] You just start thinking about choking people.

[341] So I just think, like, this is boring as fuck.

[342] I'm going to concentrate on positions in my head.

[343] I'm going to nod my head.

[344] But what's going on behind the scenes, the operating system, what's always on is Jiu -Jitsu.

[345] And almost everybody I know that is really good at Jiu -Jitsu thinks like that.

[346] They all talk about how Jiu -Jitsu becomes almost like a metronome in the background, that it's, like, constantly going on.

[347] And one of the benefits of that is that, well, you have this positive, really healthy, rewarding experience that you're obsessed with so you're addicted but you're addicted to something that's super beneficial so that differential being that there's a positive outcome right versus a negative outcome so you could describe that positive outcome experience even though it might be an addiction because the mind's so focused on it's essentially a flow state you just keep reaccessing that flow state just reactivating something that for whatever reason the way it is engaging with your life and your mind is negative like gambling addicts like people who are gambling addicts they just want that action all the time so and that's one of the that's one of the hardest addictions gambling gambling because it's an intermittent reward you don't know what the outcome's going to be So sometimes it's positive, sometimes it's negative.

[348] Looked it from the right perspective.

[349] It's all negative because of the net loss.

[350] And that's gamification too.

[351] Video games, same thing.

[352] You don't yet know what the outcome is going to be.

[353] So there's so much engagement.

[354] Heroin, cocaine, those kinds of substances, you generally know what you're going to get.

[355] So you can avoid those because you've experienced it.

[356] You know what it is.

[357] You know the negative repercussions of it.

[358] You can step back.

[359] Well, it keeps people in.

[360] there's some physical components of those addictions too and that's why heroin's so hard to kick and ibegain has like a 70 % success rate and helping people kick heroin after one treatment that's pretty amazing that's pretty fucking amazing i know a good friend who has uh with him was oxycontin but essentially the same drug and uh he went to uh went to mexico took ibegain kicked it instantly and now he runs a treatment center down there for that very reason.

[361] And the long -term predictor, just to put that in context, the long -term predictor is ongoing support.

[362] So people have like recovery coaching.

[363] Some people do 12 steps.

[364] But the recovering coaching, because Ibogaine itself is an addiction interrupter.

[365] How does it, what's the actual physical mechanisms that are going on?

[366] Well, the psychedelic is a wide variety.

[367] With Ibigain particularly has an effect on the serotonin system, the dopamine system.

[368] and the opiate system or the opioid system.

[369] It's one of the most complex interactions.

[370] Most of the psychedelics operate on the serotonin system solely.

[371] This Ibogaine acts on multiple systems across multiple fronts.

[372] And so one of the reasons is particularly good for heroin is because it has that unique profile of working on the opiate system.

[373] What it seems to do is it goes in and it scrubs the opiate neurons completely clean of the residue.

[374] So when you look at the data, people go through no or very little of the withdrawal symptoms.

[375] Wow.

[376] Right.

[377] And that's the biggest thing for people going through heroin on their own is to kick it because they're just deathly afraid of the withdrawal that's going to come.

[378] So they just keep getting stuck in the cycle.

[379] So if you can offer them something held in the right set and setting that gives them the opportunity to rewrite it with very little discomfort.

[380] But very little discomfort You're full of shit there, doctor You're full of shit there They just compress They compress all of the horror Of any kind of Any kind of come down from that Just a few hours Into your 40 hour Aboga Just a few hours You guys need to come together And reach a consensus Is it a few or is it 40 Because I Iboga is 36 hours plus or minus For me it was 40 hours Both times Pretty intense Ibogaine is the primary alkaloid.

[381] There's 12 or so primary alkaloids in Iboga, which is the plant root itself.

[382] Ibogaine is the synthesized extracted primary alkaloid that's used.

[383] Safer therapeutic window, easier to dose, easier to manage, and it has a shorter half -life.

[384] So it's usually about 12 hours.

[385] That's all.

[386] Just 12 hours where it feels like you're in a high -voltage shed and you're puking and you're spinning and there's a thousand -pound pancake on you.

[387] And you're just hoping that this misery will end, please.

[388] What do I have to do in my life that I never have to do Aboga again?

[389] But it's also you're examining, like, totally, every aspect of...

[390] So for me, going through Iboga, I didn't have a drug addiction I was kicking.

[391] I wanted to know the psychospiritual implications, and I also was trying it on because clients that I kept interfacing with, I would do a lot of one -on -one work with clients, and I knew Iboga or Ibogaine was the right direction for them.

[392] they would ask me, what's the experience like?

[393] And as opposed to me saying, well, I've heard it's like X, Y, and Z, I need to actually go in the lab, try it on for sites so I can speak about it first -person perspective.

[394] So I did Iboga twice, and then when I came on boards with Crossroads, they work with Ibegain.

[395] Same kind of thing.

[396] I need to experience what it was like.

[397] For me, actually, Ibegain was more intense than Iboga, and for most people, it's the other way around.

[398] But suffice it to say, when you know that you're, most people go.

[399] going through heroin or some kind of really bad addiction, they're at a crossroads.

[400] And so hence the name of the center.

[401] They're at a crossroads where they have hit rock bottom.

[402] And they know they're at that level of desperation that if they don't make a significant shift, then something really bad is going to happen.

[403] Like they're going to die.

[404] They're going to completely annihilate their entire family system, whatever.

[405] So they're coming with some motivation.

[406] So when you let them know that, yeah, the experience can be potentially difficult.

[407] And at Crossroads, it's the safest Ibegain experience that you can have anywhere because it's in a hospital's clinical environments.

[408] It's in Tijuana right next to Angeles Hospital.

[409] There's doctors on call right next door.

[410] There's nurses on staff in the room.

[411] You're wearing a halter monitor, 24 -hour EKG monitor because people do die with Iboga and Ibogaine.

[412] And usually it's because they're...

[413] They weren't truthful in that they were using something long -acting like Suboxone or methadone when they came in, and you cannot be on a long -acting opiate when you take Iboga.

[414] Bad news.

[415] You can be on a short -acting, and then when that washes out, you start the Iboga or Ibogaine.

[416] And if everything's clean on board, like they're not taking other drugs, they're not in their psychiatric medications, the only other problem that people typically run into, which isn't very common, but it has happened, maybe 1 % of the time, people will have an original.

[417] or heart beat irregularity because it drops your blood pressure and it drops your heart rate.

[418] And if you're not wearing a monitor and you're not really paying attention to what happens, then you can get in some trouble there.

[419] So if you have a crash card on site, it's a fairly clinical setting.

[420] Then all those bases are covered.

[421] So in that set and setting, it's extraordinarily safe.

[422] And you offer the people opportunity to come through.

[423] So when you're looking at it like from a Western addiction medicine perspective, What are the numbers people go in?

[424] What are the numbers of success rate people coming through an average rehabilitation setting like up in Malibu?

[425] Those numbers are like maybe 15 % plus or minus depending on the setting.

[426] 15 % versus 60, 65, 70 % depending on the setting with Ibogar Ibegain.

[427] That's a 400 -fold increase.

[428] And the difference being many factors, the difference being that there's actually some physiological changes that this drug is doing to your body.

[429] And then also one inescapable fact of it is that these psychedelic experiences, pretty much all of them, have that insane, transcendent moment where you are, whatever the world that you were living in before you took that drug, you were kind of basing your own experiences.

[430] Like, here's the range.

[431] Here's the spectrum of experiences in life from my dog died to I got laid, you know, the birth of my child.

[432] This is the wonderful, this is the awful, and then you part the doors to the psychedelic experience, and it's just like you stepped outside.

[433] Like you thought the roof was the ceiling of the universe.

[434] You stepped outside and realized, oh, my God, it's infinite.

[435] You know, it's like, whoa.

[436] So, like, the perspective change, because the experience is so intense and so broad and so literally all -encompassing.

[437] So you've got those two things going on.

[438] You've got the physiological change that's something like I began.

[439] Gain can do, and then you've got the actual experience itself, which is so transcendent, and none of those things are available in Malibu.

[440] You go to, I'm saying Malibu, but, you know, any of these, I was watching, you know what Periscope is, this new thing that the kids are do, those wacky kids.

[441] I was watching one yesterday.

[442] I was just checking out different people's feeds, and it was one from a rehab place, like a house where these guys are all living together in rehabilitation.

[443] And I'm like, this is like a weird social support system that they're trying to.

[444] And they were talking about how great it is to not be drinking and, you know, I'm getting my life in order.

[445] And I'm like, this is like a very small shift that they're doing.

[446] They try to cling on to this small shift and hang on and blow fire, blow smoke on the, blow air on the fire, try to get those embers to become a flame.

[447] Or you jump into lava.

[448] That's the other option.

[449] Yeah, right?

[450] The thing about Aboga, all these psychedelic experiences, and I've done many of a variety of different durations, from very short, a couple minutes to very long, like Aboga.

[451] And particularly with the plant medicines, it seems to know how long it has.

[452] Like the half -life of the medicine seems to be something that's already calculated in your brain.

[453] And so you get messages depending on how long you have.

[454] You know, a lot of times it's like a remarkable fact that I've noticed.

[455] but with aboga you have so much time that aboga just really takes its time and relentlessly showing you all of the steps that you took to lead you to different situations that you're not happy with i mean i remember when i did it the last time it spent about five hours showing me the hypothetical possible scenarios that I could go with my life that wouldn't be beneficial that would be harmful to the world and it was like five hours of that whereas like with ayahuasca you'll get maybe you know half an hour of that and then I'll be like okay but that's not reality this is it like a Boga has so much time that it just really beats these things to death so you won't even think about going down that road again or if it's something in something that's incongruous in your life, like a relationship, you know, you can wrestle with it.

[456] I wrestled, you know, in another abog experience, I wrestled with a relationship I had for like eight hours.

[457] And I'd say, maybe this way.

[458] It'd be like, nope, not this way because of this.

[459] And it would show me the reasons why my logic was flawed.

[460] And I'd like, oh, and then I'd just come back again and try another way.

[461] And it's like, nope, not that way because of this.

[462] You see, you forgot point A, blah, blah, blah.

[463] And it's just such a stern taskmaster when it comes to that.

[464] And it has seemingly infinite amount of time to just.

[465] go through all of your rationalizations, all your justifications.

[466] It's like bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

[467] Is it showing it to you in a visual sense?

[468] Iboga is a funny one because it's not as visual as the other ones.

[469] Like the DMT experience is particularly visual.

[470] Iboga tends to be more thought -based.

[471] And when a vision needs to, at least for me, when a vision needed to have a visual explanation, like it needed a visual cue, it would come.

[472] But a lot of times it's just directly thought -based, It's almost like I was talking to a much smarter version of myself.

[473] You know, it was a really interesting way that it interacted because the visions were pretty mild.

[474] I would think the Iboga in a sensory deprivation tank would be the ultimate.

[475] Well, that might be one to work up to, and prior to that, because like oftentimes you ask me the question, like, okay, I'm ready to have an experience, where do I start?

[476] So step number one is float and just float by yourself.

[477] because a lot of people haven't even floated yet and really looked at their stuff because interestingly enough, it starts to promote our own DMT -like experience.

[478] We see what's in the default mode network now comes online.

[479] We're able to look at more introspective analysis and see what was just behind the curtain that we didn't notice was there and now that comes on to the stage.

[480] We can wrestle with that, we can be with that, see what comes up, make sure that we're okay with the unknown, that kind of sense of dissolving back into the void.

[481] And then you can start stacking therapies like doing something in the tank.

[482] And so your more entry -level psychedelics would be like MDMA, DMT, edible weed, marijuana, as the next kind of entry point.

[483] And then beyond that, then you get into, and psilocybin, I would put in that entry -level point.

[484] And then beyond that, you get into the second level, and that's more like the peyote, Wachuma, San Pedro, ayahuasca, Iboga.

[485] and so it's it's nice to be able to know where people can start how to progress them through that's a lot of the psychedelic research that's happening now is the is the correct screening to know who the experience is good for who it's not good for people with the history of psychosis and mania not good for people currently on psychiatric medications not good for because most of the medicines and psychiatric medications don't work well together and there's an energetic clash and you can have a real bad trip where you could have have physiologically dangerous things happen.

[486] So when we know, you know, we've got this whole arsenal to work with.

[487] And then it becomes alchemy knowing which medicine to use at which person, at which time, and in which sequence, which order.

[488] Like, what are your target symptoms?

[489] If your target symptoms are anxiety associated with chronic pain, well, great.

[490] Then it might be something like Iboga is helpful because Iboga is really helpful for pain because it's associated with that opiate pathway.

[491] And also, let's prep with flotation and let's integrate with flotation, because flotation itself is also very good for pain.

[492] Just flotation by itself.

[493] You start stacking therapies, and I've seen clients, and I've had clients that have done a series of 7 to 10 floats, and all of a sudden now they're off of all their opiates before, with resolution of their underlying symptoms, whether it was PTSD, anxiety, insomnia.

[494] And then they do maintenance floats after that.

[495] So two to three a week for like three or four weeks, and then you do booster floats, like one a month.

[496] And some of the psychedelics are kind of similar.

[497] When you go through a big experience, you have a long period of integration, and then maybe you do a booster shot.

[498] Now, the whole psychedelic experience here in the States is under a renaissance.

[499] There's a lot of energy moving.

[500] There's a lot of clinical trials coming up in really reputable centers like the Hopkins study with psilocybin.

[501] Massive.

[502] That really put psilocybin back on the map in the scientific community because the study was so well designed and the outcomes were so amazing that you couldn't refute it.

[503] 94 % of people who were psychedelically naive had one of the top five spiritual experience that it ever had.

[504] and those and that experience lasted 14 months out with no side effects you're like holy cow that's pretty amazing MDMA assisted psychotherapy 83 % success rate for curing chronic severe PTSD after only two to three sessions of MDMA supported psychotherapy so it's not just taking a drug and having your trip and all of a sudden now you come out the other side resolved no it's like actually working with a trauma trained therapist in a really supportive safe environment to work through that because MDMA is so good at the dearmoring that happens when people are traumatized.

[505] And the data is just so eboga with addictions and psilocybin even with addictions.

[506] There's just a recent pilot study that came out.

[507] 80 % of people with chronic addiction to tobacco resolved after one -time use of psilocybin.

[508] Right?

[509] Right?

[510] So what's like the next second best thing that the allopathic medical community has for that?

[511] What's like Nicorette gum at like 8 % success rates?

[512] You just went from 8 % to 80%.

[513] And oh, by the way, you just had a transformative, mystical experience.

[514] Yeah, that was the side effects.

[515] You talked to spirit guides and saw some awesome shit.

[516] You'll never forget that you'll tell people every time you see them.

[517] Yeah.

[518] You talk to God's CEO.

[519] Yeah, exactly.

[520] I just don't understand how it's, we are here in this day and age with the thousands of years of people have been writing books and all the, it's just amazing to me that they've been able to suppress some of the most beautiful aspects of being a human being for so long.

[521] And it seems like during our lifetime, all this stuff is emerging like some sort of a strange flower that refused to be stuffed under the dirt.

[522] It's just the pop, you know, the buds are just popping through the surface of the ground.

[523] No matter how much pressure was put on it, dropping, you know, rocks on it and just stacking up shit and trying to hold it down with lies and nonsense and pharmaceutical drugs and lobbyists and all the pressure that they put to keep this stuff down.

[524] And then John Hopkins study comes out and it's like, well, you can't really refute.

[525] I mean, these are, like, some of the best minds in the world when it comes to these subjects.

[526] And then all the work that Maps is done.

[527] Maps has been amazing.

[528] And the Internet itself.

[529] The Internet itself, I mean, just the overwhelming amount of positive experiences, anecdotal as they may be, that people describe online.

[530] It gives people this community to draw from that doesn't exist in schools.

[531] It doesn't exist in most people's neighborhoods.

[532] It doesn't exist where you normally do find information.

[533] You know, look, if you want to figure out how to fucking frame a house, there's a hundred guys probably in your city that can show you how to do it.

[534] You know, if you want to figure out how to contact a spirit guide and remove yourself from an addiction that you have to pornography or to gambling or to...

[535] Good luck.

[536] Good luck.

[537] You're just going to talk to some fucking guy who runs a church and maybe he does good work.

[538] and he wants 10 % of your money, he wants you to sing and talk about Jesus, and it's not going to work.

[539] Or you'll end up with an amethyst wand in your ass.

[540] That could happen too.

[541] Not knowing what's going on the other way.

[542] There's lots of people who will take advantage of that.

[543] Of course.

[544] And, yeah, you know, this is certainly, I think they've started something in motion that now can't be stopped.

[545] What I think we're going to have to be careful of is, you know, with everything, there's a certain point where medicine becomes poison.

[546] And that happens with every single psychedelic, you know, where it crosses the threshold where it's no longer beneficial and it's dangerous or the setting is wrong or the conflict is wrong.

[547] And what's going to happen and what we need to be careful of is that there will be these bad incidents that come out just inevitably.

[548] You know, you hear about some of them from these, you know, pretty shady centers down in South America where people die during ayahuasca.

[549] When that happens in, you know, on U .S. soil, which inevitably it will, you know, there's going to be this backlash and they're going to make.

[550] one final push to try and, you know, to try and stomp this out.

[551] And we just have to, you know, really adhere to truth and stay calm and try and put out as much good science as possible because that's going to be the last card that they can play.

[552] The numbers is too high.

[553] The problem with those, those, the numbers of negative, the negative scenarios that they're depicting, the numbers of positive were so overwhelming.

[554] There's no, nothing is perfect.

[555] Not a single thing that you do.

[556] You know, there's people.

[557] people out there that they can't eat fish, you know, they try to have shellfish, their throat closes up.

[558] It doesn't make sense, but it just works that way.

[559] It doesn't mean we should pull all the shrimp from all the markets.

[560] Right.

[561] It's just, there's going to be negatives because we just have so much biodiversity.

[562] There's so much difference, all the aspects that you were talking about that could be problematic, people with psychosis, history of mental health issues and drugs that they've been taking for these mental health issues for long periods of.

[563] times that have done all sorts of really weird things, their brain chemistry, that takes a long time to normalize from.

[564] Just those numbers, I mean, as long as we're rational and honest about it, the overwhelmingly positive aspects of these therapies are undeniable.

[565] They're just too good.

[566] Yeah, the consumer -driven movement has pushed it into the limelight, and you've had people that kept the torch, like Rig Doblin with maps.

[567] And the next evolution of that now, with a few really different key organizations, is to come up with a standard of a guideline for best practices.

[568] And that's not to say that everybody has to adhere, you know, rock solid to these practices.

[569] But generally, what are the guidelines for practices?

[570] You should be screening clients for these issues.

[571] And if anybody has these issues, then they shouldn't go into the experience.

[572] This should be the general setting of the right environment.

[573] And this should be the ethical, altruistic intention that people are coming to that experience in facilitation that have that they're not doing it for profit and they're not doing it as some charlatan that they have a background, they have a pedigree.

[574] So, you know, it's like the E3 check.

[575] What's their energy?

[576] What's their experience?

[577] This is in the facilitation role.

[578] What's their energy?

[579] What's your experience?

[580] And do they have the ability to work as a spiritual EMT?

[581] Like if the shit goes down, do they know how to pull the rip cord?

[582] If somebody's going through the midst, you know, in the midst of some really bad experience, do they know how to talk them down, bring the medicine down, intervene in a way so that the experience doesn't itself become traumatizing?

[583] What about food addictions?

[584] You know, it's interesting because you were talking about the most difficult addiction to quit being gambling.

[585] Well, that's as far as behavioral addiction.

[586] Behavioral addictions.

[587] But as far as like neurochemical addictions itself, sugar's up there with heroin.

[588] and some studies show that sugar is even harder to kick than heroin.

[589] And that's also a little challenging.

[590] It's kind of like an addiction to technology.

[591] Food addictions are tricky because it's not like you're going to stop eating.

[592] Right, that's what I was going to bring up.

[593] Right.

[594] So there's a whole movement in a variety of addiction circles around moderation, even with alcohol.

[595] There's a movement in moderation where, like, you know, the sponsor, where the person helping coach somebody going through sobriety will go to the bar, and they'll have one drink and they'll talk about what it's like to have one drink and then they'll leave together after only having like one or two drinks without really reaching that point of significant detriment and be able to process that whole experience so that you're not you're not trying to make this polarity statement like you went from this crazy addiction to now you can have anything and so if you're defining success as being completely abstinent well then maybe you're actually not appreciating the benefit of success excessive steps along the way.

[596] Like if somebody has a heroin addiction and they're not taking care of their family and they can't hold a job and they go through some kind of recovery program where now they're using something else as maybe a transition addiction, but they're holding a job now.

[597] They're better with their family and wife and kids.

[598] There's very significant milestones and markers to where they have improved their life.

[599] In my experience, that's success because you're moving towards ongoing improved benefit.

[600] I had Dr. Andrew Hill on the podcast who has a similar sort of a treatment approach.

[601] And one of the things that he does is they will go to a bar with a patient and have the patient have a drink and talk to them through it and make sure that they are only having one drink and that they don't, you know, just completely.

[602] Yeah, because the goal should be normalcy, not this like shaky dam that if it leaks the whole thing, One day at a time.

[603] Yeah, and everything just breaks.

[604] You know, you want to be, you want to get to the point where you're so not addicted, you're like everybody else.

[605] If someone cracks a really nice bottle of wine at dinner, you can say, yeah, sure, you know, if you want to, not like, ah, now, if I have that wine, I'll be into the mini bar and then it'll be like that fucking Denzel Washington movie.

[606] But isn't there physical aspects to addiction that have to be addressed with some people?

[607] Totally.

[608] Like some people really maybe should avoid alcohol almost entirely.

[609] Well, some people have a genetic predisposition towards hypersensitivity to the effects of alcohol.

[610] And you see that with Asian populations, particularly Asian women.

[611] You see that in the Native American culture and population.

[612] They have a weakness in a particular enzyme that breaks alcohol down.

[613] Alcohol dehydrogenase and actually turns alcohol into acid aldehyde and it becomes this really toxic substance.

[614] And you have longstream detriments and ramifications in neurochemical.

[615] complexity.

[616] So you have a physiologic predisposition towards alcohol being really bad for you.

[617] And then you have the addiction, neurochemistry itself, like we were talking about before.

[618] And then you have everything underneath that, which is the psychoemotional, psychospiritual implications.

[619] Like, what is empty from that person's life that keeps them addicted to a substance that they're trying to fill a void or numb a pain?

[620] There's always these interplay of factors, and it's important to look at all of them.

[621] and so whether it's alcohol or we were talking before about sugar sugar is one of the most addictive substances and it's it's really difficult to get completely away from you have to be really mindful about all the sugars that are added in fruit juice fruit juice seems healthy yet when you look at the sugar load it's massive and my experience going with ibogaine is that i didn't appreciate that i had this long -standing sugar addiction and in And looking back, I've had that for a long time.

[622] And even looking back further, I know now where it came from because I just kind of like did this retrospective analysis.

[623] I was in and out of the hospital for the first two years because I had recurrent pneumonia.

[624] I was six weeks early.

[625] And in recurrent pneumonia, they put you on a lot of steroids and they put you on a lot of antibiotics.

[626] And it completely screws up your gut flora.

[627] And it predisposes you to candida long time down the road.

[628] And candida feeds on sugar.

[629] So after, you know, I was addicted to alcohol for a while and kicked that.

[630] And then I became addicted to pot for a while.

[631] And then I kicked that.

[632] And then I became addicted to work and kind of more monastic practices, meditation, those sorts of things.

[633] And I lived in the jungle and these kind of like extreme experiences.

[634] But sugar was always in the background.

[635] And then when I went through Ibogaine, I came out and I have like zero charge around sugar now.

[636] Zero.

[637] Because you recognize what it really is.

[638] because it shifted the neurochemistry.

[639] So without even knowing going in that there was this addiction there, because I just wasn't registering it consciously.

[640] It did sugar addiction for somebody with with a weak metabolic load or maybe they're susceptible, they have adrenal fatigue or they're susceptible to hold on to weight.

[641] Maybe a sugar addiction is a really bad thing because now you can see that they've got this metabolic syndrome and they're moving into type 2 diabetes or whatever it might be.

[642] For me, it was always kind of in the background, but it was always there.

[643] Like, I have a sweet tooth that's insatiable.

[644] If I kick it off, I go rampant, right?

[645] And so on the other side of Ibegain, there's no charge on sugar now.

[646] And I didn't even know that was going to come out the other side.

[647] I just ended up, everybody was feasting on sugar at this party I was at, like, a few days later.

[648] And I had this kind of like, I was just kind of looked at it and glanced away.

[649] And I thought, well, that's different.

[650] I remember that there would be this charge before.

[651] And now there's nothing.

[652] And so there's a whole thing that happens with addictive neurochemistry that might not necessarily be.

[653] And that's all physiologic, right?

[654] I mean, ultimately, at the end of the day, we're all energy.

[655] We're like 99 .997 % energy.

[656] This is just space.

[657] So we're actually like these energetic beings and all these implications around that, depending on your spiritual and philosophical beliefs about what causes that to be the case.

[658] We're also in this 3D reality we have these monkey suits that we're wearing, and sometimes the cigar is just a cigar.

[659] So if you have a candida overgrowth, it feeds on sugar.

[660] It's good to get rid of that in order to release the sugar, and you have to do that mindfully too because candida buffers heavy metals.

[661] We were talking about heavy metals before.

[662] So when people go in these crash no sugar diets, oftentimes the candida die off, and it releases this massive toxic load on the system.

[663] And that's why people feel shitty.

[664] It's not necessarily because the candida is going away.

[665] It's because of all the things that the candida released.

[666] So you have to be mindful about how you detox and stepwise fashions.

[667] It can get a little bit complicated, but we can do it well.

[668] So that's just a long way to say for me personally, and I've seen this with other clients too, say that same thing.

[669] But until I had the experience myself, I really wasn't putting in a first -person perspective and really appreciated the fact that just by itself, you can see this too with people coming off the streets on heroin, just by itself, there is a neurochemical addictive rewrite, a reboot in that system that helps people, that's why it's an addiction interrupter.

[670] There's a really good documentary called Ibegain Rites of Passage, I think it's been maybe eight years ago or so.

[671] And it's really well done, kind of like neurons to Nirvana, which was more recent.

[672] Also another really good one.

[673] that talks about that addictive neurochemical rewrite flotation does that too it's just not as big and you have to do a lot of floats so when that neurochemical rewrite is is happening and that interruption occurs then you do the ongoing supportive work and so like addiction recovery coaching like okay what was underneath that and through the experience through this mystical experience now you're reframing so much of the childhood trauma trauma and addiction are extraordinarily interwoven.

[674] Trauma, ADHD, and addiction are extraordinarily interwoven.

[675] So when we understand the neurological implications, the trauma implications, the transgenerational implications, right?

[676] So if people have problems with their genetics, there's a whole now burgeoning field called nutrigenomics or detoxogenomics, where you do these genetic profiles and it shows you what your ability to detox certain things are.

[677] when we were talking about heavy metals like where do heavy metals come from well it's like kind of like when people are exposed to the flu the flu is everywhere but some people express it because some people's immune system is weakened they have a predisposition so heavy metals are everywhere environmental toxicity is everywhere when you look at the fetal cord blood baby just born the average number of toxins in that fetal cord blood 220 average toxins right out of the the gate sixty of those are known carcinogens right out the gate you're already like born and we're born into this toxic soup so if we know what our genetics are and Rhonda was talking about this in regards to dr. Ronda Patrick yeah because that was a great podcast she did with TBI and she was talking about the predisposition towards Alzheimer's you have these APOE type 4 genetics well if you put that genetic profile on top of a traumatic brain injury now you just have it increase in your Alzheimer's risk tenfold.

[678] Do you think that people are hesitant to look at sugar the same way you're describing it?

[679] Because it doesn't have the, like, when you say that sugar is more addictive in some studies than heroin, people will go, that's fucking horseshit.

[680] But it's because the effect of sugar doesn't have the profound effect on the body that heroin does, the actual effect.

[681] But I think people might confuse that with the addictive properties of it.

[682] because I know a lot of fucking people that are addicted to sugar and they don't want to admit it and they don't they want to pretend that it's just it's normal but they they take a day off of sugar and they feel like they did a great thing a day you know I mean I don't know if heroin junkies need it every day if they could take a couple of days off but I've I've seen friends that eat candy or drink soda and those motherfuckers they they they it calls them it calls to them sometimes after every meal mm -hmm After every meal, they have to finish it with something sweet.

[683] They have to have a dessert.

[684] And I've felt myself go in and out of these modes where it's like I want a piece of chocolate or something after almost every meal.

[685] You know, and then they have to be like, whoa, whoa.

[686] What is that?

[687] Yeah.

[688] Yeah, like why am I so compelled to do that?

[689] And the more stressed I am and the more I am doing things just kind of an autopilot, the more I just do that without even thinking.

[690] Like the more if I've been in a recent medicine journey or if I've gone floating or if I've kept up with my meditation practice well, then I can like stop and reflect and be like, okay, here's this urge welling up inside me. Do I want to satiate it or do I want to, you know, deny it?

[691] And you have more conscious control of it.

[692] And then at that point you can really make a decision.

[693] But when you're just caught up in momentum, you know, we're such creatures of momentum, that you have to halt the momentum with what the Native Americans would call the sacred silence, which is anything.

[694] that brings you to a point of presence where you can really access free will and just kind of stop all this momentum that's going.

[695] Which is why the tank is so great.

[696] The tank is the ultimate.

[697] Nature, meditation, I mean, all of these things.

[698] You know, I was, I'm reading this book right now by Tom Brown called Awakening Spirits, and he gives this really cool little fable that explains it.

[699] So I'll tell the fable here.

[700] So there's this guy who lives in the woods with a wizard.

[701] And this wizard has a demon that can accomplish any task.

[702] So the guy wants to capture this wizard and get the demon Because he wants to accomplish any task So he finds the wizard in meditation down by the stream Throws a rope around him, cinches it tight And the wizard looks at him and says You've come from my demon, haven't you?

[703] He says, yes, I've come from the demon.

[704] Give it to me or I won't let you go.

[705] He says, that's fine, I'll give you the demon But I have to tell you, the demon will do anything you want But you have to keep it busy.

[706] If you don't keep it busy, it will grow angry.

[707] It'll grow hostile.

[708] It'll seek to destroy you.

[709] He says, fine, fine, no matter what, whatever.

[710] Keep it busy.

[711] There's plenty of stuff to do.

[712] Wizard says, sure, the demon will be waiting for you back to your house.

[713] So it goes back to his house.

[714] And there's the demon.

[715] It's a nice, humble servant.

[716] He says, what can I do for you, master?

[717] He says, oh, go fetch me a cup of water.

[718] And the demon goes out and comes right back with a cup of water.

[719] He says, it is done.

[720] He drinks the water.

[721] It says, what else would you have me do?

[722] He says, ah, go make me a feast.

[723] Go hunt some game and make me a feast.

[724] So the demon goes out and makes him a feast, comes back, it is done.

[725] And even before he could finish eating it, the demon starts growing more angry and bigger and says, what will you have me do?

[726] What will you have me do?

[727] He says, ah, blah, build me a new house.

[728] Okay, so the demon goes off.

[729] He gets a moment of rest.

[730] The demon comes back and says, it is done.

[731] The man looks up, sure enough, there's the house built.

[732] And he runs out of things.

[733] He starts to panic.

[734] He runs out of things to do.

[735] So he's, you know, freaking out.

[736] He runs back to where the wizard was.

[737] He says, Wizard, I can't stop at it.

[738] I can't give the demon enough.

[739] things to do and the wizard says you know with compassion says pull a hair from your head and tell the demon to straighten the hair and he says okay I guess I'll try that so he runs back and at this point the demon is fully out of control it's destroying his house it's destroying all the things that he loves about his house so he pulls the hair from his head and he says straighten this hair and so the demon gets the hair and says ah tries to straighten it and the hair goes back to curly tries to straighten it the hair goes back to curly tries to straighten it the hair goes back to curly hair goes back to curly and all of a sudden the demon shrinks in size and so in this fable the demon is our minds and our minds are constantly requiring you know what will you have me do what will you have me do and many of these techniques that we use they liken to the hair it's something that allows the mind gives it a moment of distraction gives it something to occupy it puts it to sleep so that we can use the mind as a servant instead of our master and so all of these things from to floating, to psychedelics, you know, their hairs.

[740] Even nature itself is in its way a hair, because if you need nature to find that calm, that's, you know, that's the hair.

[741] You need that walk in the mountains.

[742] And some hairs are better than others, obviously.

[743] I love the story up to the hair part.

[744] I think whoever wrote that story needed to go back for a second draft.

[745] I like what they're saying.

[746] I catch it, but straighten the hair out.

[747] This fucking thing can build houses.

[748] It can't straighten a hair out.

[749] It's a goddamn demon.

[750] It has powers.

[751] Right.

[752] I feel like it should have told it what I would like you to do is shut the fuck up.

[753] How about concentrating on shutting the fuck up and doing nothing?

[754] That's what I'd like you to do.

[755] That's your task.

[756] Your task is to do nothing.

[757] Well, if Tom Brown, if you're listening, you need to rewrite your story.

[758] Rewrite that shit, son.

[759] That's old shit that was written a long time ago.

[760] When people had a lot of curly hair.

[761] Well, they wrote their dumb shit.

[762] They wrote No on the Ark, you know.

[763] Two of each animal.

[764] The fuck out of here.

[765] Animals eat animals.

[766] What are they doing on that boat?

[767] What are they doing when they get off the boat?

[768] You fucked up.

[769] The guys made bad stories.

[770] I like that idea, though, because it is kind of true, that, like, especially ambition.

[771] You know, ambition can get out of control.

[772] It's like we were discussing earlier today about rich people.

[773] There's a certain amount of rich people that never feel like, you know what, I've made plenty of money.

[774] I don't have to gouge and fuck over all the people that I do business with and try to rip off everyone who is you know who's working with me you could you could have some sort of a more more peaceful relationship with them if you're less concerned about the money and you brought up a really interesting point is that's the only thing they're keeping score in it's the only thing where they have like a number system or a like you could look up on the board like look we're making progress look at we have a quantifiable progress report up on the board and those things become it becomes a part of who you are as a human being how you interface with this reality and your self -worth and your how you uh the way you appreciate yourself and the way you feel about yourself your confidence is oftentimes based entirely on how those numbers are moving and when those when it's all just about business you know about selling computers or whatever the fuck you're doing like you know like steve jobs i think completely lost the script.

[775] I mean, you're talking about a guy who got into this idea of creating computers and figuring out something to fix the world through psychedelics.

[776] He got into it through LSD.

[777] And these LSD experiences that he had, he said, were some of the most powerful experiences of his life.

[778] Well, what did it lead to?

[779] Well, it led to a guy who was fucking nut.

[780] It was working 20 hours a day, just making computers all the time and trying to stop the conversation.

[781] competition and shut down anyone that would oppose him and yelling at his employees screaming at them even for not working as hard as he worked like not recognizing that they're just individuals that are working for him they're not going to share that same sort of psychotic passion yeah i mean i i think we're all we're all hungry for more we're insatiable creatures we all require more air we require more food we require more water we're generally insatiable beings and we require progress you know that's one of the things we require And the problem is, is that there's a hunger inside ourselves that oftentimes we don't know where the mouth is to feed it.

[782] And that's this, you know, this true peace, this alignment and reconciliation with our consciousness, that whatever higher self that is, call it spirit, call it whatever you want.

[783] I prefer to call it your consciousness.

[784] And the problem is, is that it's really close to the other stomachs, but it's not it.

[785] So people try to feed it with accomplishments with money, and they feed it with relationships.

[786] and status and all of these other things, but they're not actually nourishing what that real hunger is.

[787] And that's the hunger to be what we're capable of being on a true consciousness level and a being that can help make the lives of everyone else around us better, you know, improve the quality of life for the earth and everybody around.

[788] Yeah, it's so hard to grasp if you're not in that mindset.

[789] It's so hard to leave the momentum of your current mindset, whether it's a current mindset that loves to gamble or the current mindset loves to stuff your fat face with cake, whatever it is.

[790] Those mindsets, those patterns of behavior are incredibly difficult to escape from.

[791] And it's one of the reasons why I wanted to ask you about food addictions, because it seems to me that I don't really have a food addiction, but I would imagine that they're probably one of the hardest to keep.

[792] kick because everybody has to eat totally you have to eat yeah so while you're eating you're like yeah this celery is good but fuck it would be awesome if I had some chocolate ice cream right now with some whipped cream and chocolate fudge you know those those those whole filling longing lustful sort of intense cravings that some people have towards food I've seen friends that have food addictions that are that when they do get that food like you know we're maybe driving somewhere maybe we're hungry maybe we just landed and we're on our way from the airport to get food when they finally get that food it's like a fucking guy who's been holding his breath at the bottom of the ocean they can't have this oh ah ah ah ah ah ah it's like like you just you just did something like you you kept yourself from my precious for so long then when you finally in the in the presence of it you just engorge in it we just You fucking forget to breathe.

[793] You're not breathing.

[794] I've seen guys eat where they're not breathing.

[795] You're not like taking a bite and sleep.

[796] You were fine five minutes ago.

[797] You were beating, your heart was beating, you were breathing, you were walking your feet.

[798] Then all of a sudden that chicken palm sub comes your way and you're just stuffing it into your fucking maw.

[799] That's a weird addiction, man. It's a weird addiction in that imbalance of massive necessity.

[800] You know, it's just, it's necessary to get it in me right now, even though it's not really.

[801] Yeah.

[802] Yeah, food addiction is one of the trickier ones.

[803] And not everybody's going to do a psychedelic, right?

[804] So for the vast majority, like, not everybody's going to climb Everest.

[805] And when you climb Everest, it's going to have a map and a team and a guide and all that stuff.

[806] Don't go there when there's an earthquake.

[807] Right.

[808] Yeah.

[809] You want to set in setting, right?

[810] Same thing.

[811] So what are, what are most people going to do?

[812] Well, when you transition off of something that's so ubiquitous, it's super helpful to have motivation because it's not going to be an easy journey.

[813] It's super helpful to have a guide and a plan, and it's super helpful to integrate that plan and stick to it.

[814] So sugar, there's a JJ Virgin is a really well -known author in the whole addiction realm, particularly in regards to sugar.

[815] She's got a pretty successful plan.

[816] basically it entails stepping down and then transitioning from sugars that are really crappy to sugars that are better and then less of those sugars that are better to eventually you're on extraordinarily or no sugar diet so you gradually step that down and outside of having a really good motivation sometimes people won't stay with it like oh this is just too hard but if your motivation is like wow I just went to the doctor and I've got like you know 90 % stinosis on one of my heart arteries and I'm really close to having another heart attack or I'm morbidly obese and some and I just got that major self -reflection about how my life's just horrible right now or I'm in this you know suicidal depression or whatever whatever people's motivation is that crisis point can actually help people motivate them to a new trajectory so that's why I often have you hear with with anybody going through an addiction particularly with alcoholics like they haven't hit rock bottom and once you've motivated and you've come up with a plan and whatever that plan is to be able to stick to it is also important than to have ongoing support especially if these are dangerous addictions like my sister committed suicide a year and a half ago after she relapsed on alcohol and no one saw it coming and she shot and killed herself oh and it was a really big shock and it really helped remind me of the importance of ongoing support and being consistently interfacing with conscious people in our family and supportive tribe and our brothers and sisters like really watching out for each other really checking in making sure there's not anything going on a deeper level having that honest inventory versus just playing on the surface and ignoring everything that's in the background and and this life is precious right so when we engage it in a good way and we're becoming our best self, then we have the opportunity to really create massive and beneficial change in the world.

[817] And many people are playing on the surface, and we don't exactly even know how to get in touch with ourselves or what we want to do or what our mission is here in life.

[818] And so coming back to that whole addiction rewrite, there's steps.

[819] There's very clear steps along the path.

[820] And sugar is one of those that is because it's so ubiquitous or like technology.

[821] I used to help run a clinic called Alternative to Meds in Sedona and another place called the Sanctuary in Sedona, two different centers, but oftentimes people will come for addiction recovery.

[822] And one of the trickiest ones that we ever saw was this addiction to technology, whether it was pornography or just being on the Internet for so long or whatever kind of addiction profile in the technology arena because it's like sugar, it's so ubiquitous.

[823] It's not like you're going to just say no and I'm never going to do that again.

[824] So at that point, it's even coming back to that moderation plan, it's even more helpful to have an ongoing support system and person in place and recovery coach move you through that process.

[825] So sugar is one of those that because it's a physiological addiction, the body does get used to it or caffeine.

[826] It does get used to it.

[827] So if people are jacked up on coffee, you transition to black tea, then you transition a green tea, and then you transition to no caffeine, really set somebody up for success versus saying, well, you're on coffee, then stop it cold turkey and suffer for, you know, a week to 10 days.

[828] Most people aren't going to want to do it that way.

[829] And it doesn't actually have to go that way.

[830] You can actually come up with a pretty successful plan.

[831] You just have to be rock solid and committed to it.

[832] When you're talking about candida and gut bacteria, how much of a, when you try to help someone get off that, how much emphasis do you put on probiotics?

[833] Massive.

[834] Massive.

[835] Because there's going to be a die -off, and that die -off and that toxicity that the candida is going to release or Paris and like if you're clearing parasites same thing so parasites are another buffer and we we have grown and we were talking about this before we've we've grown over generations in traditional cultures to be symbiotic with with parasites in our environment like we live together and you see these traditional cultures like that are very untouched by Western food and by Western marketing and by Western influence and you when you look at their microbiome or you look at their gut flora they have the most rich and diverse gut flora and the ones that we usually have in like probiotic strains are just a fraction of everybody who's playing and so you've got these massively complex and extraordinarily sophisticated gut probiotic populations that help us metabolize and even produce a lot of the micronutrients that we need for our most vital living and when you look at the long -term ramifications of being able to re -infiltrate and so there's this whole movement now around fecal transplants and being able to identify somebody who's got a really healthy microbiome or healthy gut flora they have a healthy neurological system they're just generally vital as a source for a potential gut fecal transplant and When you look at people who are kind of the opposite of that, they have longstanding irritable bowel syndrome or Crohn's disease or some kind of autoimmune infection, there's a whole science around using parasites is actually a beneficial step.

[836] It's called Helmynthic therapy.

[837] We actually receive hookworms into the system, and the hookworms kind of move everything else out and lower the inflammatory load and help to rewrite some of that autoimmune caps.

[838] cascade.

[839] So then once that autoimmune cascade is rewritten, then you bring in the healthy probiotics.

[840] So there's a whole science to the gut body and mind interface.

[841] That's why there's a really good book I think about getting Gerson called the second brain.

[842] And it's this whole deep scientific look at the gut brain connection and how many of the neurotransmitters and what build the neurotransmitters, that actually starts in the gut.

[843] Like most of the serotonin system comes from the gut.

[844] It doesn't come from the brain.

[845] It's produced in the gut, and it's transported to the brain for activity.

[846] So people that talk about feeling like shit, it's because they're full of shit.

[847] Right?

[848] So we need to actually start with the gut.

[849] Isn't that amazing how much diet and what you take into your body has an effect on your mind itself?

[850] I mean, it really, really truly is amazing.

[851] how much what you put into your body has an impact on how your brain functions and the fact that we never get taught that our bodies are essentially a biological ecosphere.

[852] I mean, your bodies are essentially not one thing.

[853] Your bodies are like a host of untold billions of little tiny microscopic life forms that exist.

[854] And if they're in an unhealthy state, you'll be in an unhealthy state.

[855] state but if they're in a healthy state you'll feel better the the studies that they've done on probiotic gut content and the effect that it has on depression massive it's insane massive anxiety too right you you have like a healthy rat population an anxious rat population you take out their poop and you transplant it you just turn the healthy rats into anxious rats and the anxious rats and the anxious rats and healthy rats well and all fairness you're fucking with their butt and stick a poop in there and there's a lot going on.

[856] I get anxious.

[857] External factors.

[858] And like, I was fine.

[859] They stuck a metal rod up my ass, man. That's nothing to do with the poop you put in there.

[860] Like, I'm wondering when the next fucking shoe's going to drop.

[861] And we haven't gotten sophisticated yet in being able to, like, measure, like, how rats feel.

[862] Well, we have to be able to press a button and freeze them in time so they don't know what we're doing to them.

[863] Right.

[864] You know, it's an interesting thing because there's a study that was done on rats with cocaine.

[865] It's a very famous study, the difference between cocaine and heroin and rats, and that if you give these rats cocaine, they'll do cocaine until they die.

[866] The problem with that study has been brought up, I forget who it was on the podcast that brought it up, was that you're talking about rats in a fucking cage.

[867] What else is there to do?

[868] The cage itself is a part of the study.

[869] And the follow -up study to that showed that when they're put in a rat park, and they're still given unlimited supply of cocaine.

[870] So, in isolation, rats with unlimited supply of cocaine, more than 75 % will be heavy users and a lot of lethality.

[871] When that same unlimited supply of cocaine is put in the setting of what's called a rat park, where now you're like hanging out with a rat.

[872] You've got rat hookers.

[873] You got rat clubs.

[874] The rat ghetto.

[875] There's a rat softball game going on.

[876] You got all these options.

[877] The rat joggers.

[878] You got mouse racing.

[879] You got all kinds of shit.

[880] And when you've got all this.

[881] Great stuff and stimulation around you.

[882] Right.

[883] You just went from over 75 heavy users to less than 25 % heavy users and no lethality, right?

[884] So you, you, because of the social stimulation, so addiction is about connect, life is about connection, right?

[885] So that ability to connect to like a stimulating environment, the social milieu significantly drops the drug use, even if you have the same.

[886] amount and same thing with Portugal when they legalized all drugs and that would be decriminalized I think right yeah decriminalized can't sell them but yeah yeah sorry good yeah right so when decriminalization happened and they they shifted all their money from the war on drugs into social infrastructure and started to boost up the social milieu and started to destigmatize the the addiction nomenclature in that label like something's wrong with you like actually let's talk about what's going on in your social arena and how we can help that it was a complete rewrite and drug use went down lethality went down so we're recognizing just more and more and these like we as these like you know monkeys walking around these suits we are built for a connection and when that's why you know our first part of our whole discussion today around people doing you know thumb desk jockey and getting really absorbed into that whole gamification arena and the whole video gaming industry, I get concerned about the social developmental ramifications.

[887] Like, what's the potential end result?

[888] And does the, is that beneficial for our, you know, for the evolution of our species, so to speak, or is it going to end up being like idiocracy where generations down the road, we just get dumber and dumber.

[889] And then, you know, the president is a, I think it really just depends on, title holder.

[890] It depends on, you know, just how much addiction you have to, whether it crosses that threshold, because I've played a lot of video games.

[891] They kind of sucked back when I was a kid.

[892] But, you know, it was always the balance was, I played some video games and then run around outside, play basketball or kick a ball around or do whatever.

[893] But I played, I mean, I played a good amount.

[894] There was days I'd play six, eight hours, a dragon warrior, or Final Fantasy, or one of these super But in the big grand scheme of things, you were probably doing much more athletics and social.

[895] But still, it was just about, you know, about balance.

[896] And I think, again, that same message.

[897] If we demonize video games, the kids are going to be like, fuck you.

[898] Because they know that that's inherently not the problem.

[899] The problem is identifying when something good like sex becomes something not good, like addiction to sex.

[900] If that thing is even real, I mean, I imagine it is.

[901] Totally.

[902] Yeah.

[903] Sex addiction is extraordinarily strong.

[904] I think this addiction to washing your hands.

[905] Yeah, I mean, people have addictions to everything.

[906] I mean, there's people that have addictions to, they really get physically upset if they step on cracks in the sidewalk.

[907] Right, this is more like an OCD, obsessive -compulsive disorder kind of complex.

[908] But don't you think that there's some sort of an addiction property to that?

[909] Like, you're addicted to having a clean floor.

[910] OCD is another really difficult one to rewrite.

[911] And, interestingly enough, when you look at the studies, the anthogens and the psychedelics, they come in again.

[912] to help rewrite the neurochemistry.

[913] That's a bit more serotonin driven and not so much dopamine driven.

[914] There's some cross -overlap.

[915] But that's more of an anxiety spectrum disorder versus primary addiction disorder because those ritualized behaviors have to be done in order to arrest some underlying compulsion and need for perfection and need to have a corrective experience, some kind of underlying need.

[916] And so the energy around it's a little bit different, But at the same time, the intervention for success and recovery from that might be pretty similar because everybody's a little bit different.

[917] When you look at the data, people that have significant anxiety, and this actually came up with floating too.

[918] Two years ago, Justin Feinstein talked about at the float conference.

[919] He was talking about the benefits of flotation for anxiety.

[920] And people with generalized anxiety disorder after 10 floats had significant reduction in their symptoms.

[921] like by the order of like 30 % and people with obsessive compulsive disorder significant improvement and symptoms when going through a psychedelic experience like ayahuasca so you've got these again really novel treatments and therapeutics and honestly more people are going to float than more people than they're going to do psychedelics but again it just becomes a really wide array of our of our tool belt and knowing how to meet people where they're at recommend the right approach for them at that time oftentimes floating is a gateway to do other things like clean up the diet clean up your social environment get more on track with your purpose and your passion because like when you're driving your purpose and your passion all of a sudden there's less bandwidth that even has room to play with other behaviors and other addictions that might not be getting you to that point yeah i i've got to think that momentum plays a huge factor in a lot of people's lives and their decisions both good and bad.

[922] When people are on the bender momentum, they're getting drunk every night and they're fucking up every night.

[923] It becomes their life.

[924] Whereas the momentum of positivity, that becomes their life.

[925] When you start talking about expressions and sayings like one day at a time, the issues that I have with that, I'm talking completely out of ignorance because I'm not an alcoholic and going to never have been, but if I was, I would like to think that I could just get rid of it.

[926] It doesn't have to be one day at a time.

[927] Like, why is it one day at a time?

[928] Why, I wake up tomorrow, am I going to be, am I going to fuck up?

[929] Like, am I putting that out there that one day at a time means, let's just take this one day at time.

[930] I'm sober, one day at a time.

[931] How about I'm fucking sober?

[932] How about this is me?

[933] I learned from the past and I'm sober now.

[934] But the people that are into that 12 -step shit, my only concern is they, they, you know, talk a lot like crossfitters.

[935] They talk like vegans and crossfitters and people that are like really into being addicted to what they're into.

[936] They're addicted to sobriety.

[937] They start talking about it all the time.

[938] They start like trying to encourage other people even people that don't have a problem with alcohol.

[939] Like I've had friends that got clean and then they see you have a drink and they're like listen bitch.

[940] See this?

[941] This is a beer.

[942] I like beer.

[943] I like beer.

[944] I'm going to have a beer.

[945] And then I'm done.

[946] Is that okay?

[947] By the way, I'm going to get up in the morning.

[948] I'm going to run.

[949] You want to run with me, pussy?

[950] You're just going to sit in bed and say one day at a time.

[951] I'm going to go have my coffee and my cigarettes because I'm super healthy.

[952] That's the other thing they do.

[953] They get addicted to something else.

[954] It becomes an addiction to a new thing.

[955] Coffee and cigarettes is a big one with alcoholics.

[956] I mean, I know so many fucking alcoholics that you see them every day.

[957] They have a goddamn venty Starbucks in their hand.

[958] They can't get off that tit and it's just they've just substituted whatever it is that they were trying to fill with the booze they've substituted it now with caffeine or with nicotine or with whatever it becomes like an identifying part of their story you know that's part of their identity and and I think one of the lures and the problems with this is when you have this kind of ascetic principle that's part of your identity you think you're doing great things but you're really just focused entirely on yourself.

[959] It's like, I'm doing something great.

[960] I'm eating vegan.

[961] Well, what is that doing for the world?

[962] That's just something you're doing for yourself.

[963] Fine, good.

[964] But they act like it's this great burden that they bore for the rest of humanity.

[965] Well, vegans have a kind of an argument for that because the less carbon footprint, less of an impact on the environment with no factory farming or no vested interest in that.

[966] So there's a modicum of actual benefit.

[967] But in any kind ascetic practice, whether it's not drinking or whether it's not eating meat or whether it's not doing something, not engaging in sex.

[968] You know, you can talk to somebody who's celibate and you find these in some yoga communities like, yes, you know, I've not engaged in sex in a month.

[969] And they act like they're doing some great service for humanity when really it's a selfish thing that they're doing.

[970] Fine if you want to do that.

[971] Any of these things are good.

[972] I'm not saying don't do them.

[973] But the lure is that because it's a struggle, you feel like you're doing something great.

[974] you're just focused entirely on yourself.

[975] Well, there's also a competition going on, and there's comparing yourself to others, which is it's a natural human instinct.

[976] It's a natural human instinct to gauge your progress based on how you stack up with the people that you surround yourself with.

[977] And very few people like to do that in the negative sense.

[978] Like, you don't like to look at that in a negative sense.

[979] You like to look at it in a positive sense.

[980] Like if you've turned vegan, one of the things is, people like to do is they get really shitty especially online like online like the ability to communicate with people with no social repercussions no cues no interaction no look at each other eye to eye this this shitty things that people say to each other through that and that this this vegan thing that so many people love to do where they are really fucking angry and nasty and aggressive towards people who aren't vegan and towards people who enjoy meat or towards people who hunt and they somehow or another feel like they're justified in releasing this anger on you and because you're cruel to animals like I saw something today or someone was talking about there's bears in Yellowstone Park that were chasing tourists did you see that video it's a pretty crazy video these people were all on this this this bridge and these black bears started chasing these people it's really kind of fucked because there's quite a few people in this bridge and they got on a bridge that unfortunately a mother and her cubs got on and the mother's kind of freaking out and she's chasing people off and so someone you know someone was like man fuck those bears like somebody wrote that on Twitter and then some other guy was like no fuck people you know what people do to this world if you compare what bears do to this world and it was like this angry scrub about veganism and like went from bears being around people to I'm better than you because I'm a vegan yeah and people suck but bears are awesome that bear will eat your dick off and not give a shit you can be screaming it's living in nature and it's trying to keep its babies alive which by the way if it runs into a male bear the male bear's going to eat the baby so please shut the fuck up with people are worse than bears because it's ridiculous if bears had cars they would never get their oil changed they would fucking drive right over babies they wouldn't give a fuck I mean the idea the idea that somehow or another you know you you have transcended you know your your need to consume animal protein and so this has transferred transferred in in your being somehow to this anger towards people that do consume animal protein it's it's really short -sided and it does more harm that it does good because there's some really good ideas that are attached to living a vegetarian life really good ideas and what what you're just talking about in regards to both of those groups like you had the guy who was recovering from alcohol now he was judging you for drinking a beer and you've got vegans who are judging you for eating meat it's the same under under both of those is that same projected um bias it's that same judgment that what I'm doing is right and what you're doing is wrong.

[981] And when we do that, we polarize the discussion.

[982] And it makes some people good and some people bad, as opposed in Western medicine has done that to chiropractic medicine or naturopatic medicine, I mean, or the Palestinians have done that to the Israelis.

[983] I mean, the inherent conflicts that are downstream that cause all the major discourse in the world is all about people judging one another.

[984] and believing in their bones that their position is right versus coming to the table and saying, let's connect, let's have a clear conversation.

[985] Let me own what is mine.

[986] So if I'm a recovering alcohol and I'm judging you for your alcohol, and maybe let me own the fact that I'm actually envious of you because I'd really love to have a beer.

[987] But for me, because of my chemistry or my background or whatever, because of who I am and what I'm going through right now, me having a beer is a bad thing it would lead to a bad outcome so I'm going to judge you for yours it doesn't really matter you can put the mask on any way you want but underlying that it's people's own inherent ability to be real and okay with themselves and judging each other as being bad or wrong that's the polarizing conflict yeah that's a very good point it's a very good point and I think it speaks to what we were talking about earlier about competition and that this is the only arena where they're keeping score and that some people they're keeping score with their moral like the moral score like I am a more moral more ethical person of you because I choose to live my life in this way even though I do all sorts of damage to people's psyche by being shitty to them because you know because of the fact that they're not living the same moral life that I do this is the issue that I've had with the quote unquote social justice warriors of the world, the people that shame and attack people for having what they believe to be disparaging belief systems or people that may be sexist or homophobic or what have you.

[988] Instead of treating these ideas with rational discourse and love, they're aggressive and angry and they try to get people fired and they try to shame people for their ideas.

[989] That doesn't work.

[990] You can't human beings don't work like that And you can't communicate like that And what you're doing is essentially the same thing That we're talking about You are now keeping score By shaming or by Writing horrible things about these people Or by attacking them or organizing Groups of like -minded fuckheads To go out and attack these people And instead you're just creating a competitive Sort of antagonistic combative environment Right You're not doing any good.

[991] You might feel better yourself.

[992] Like, yeah, we went out there and got them.

[993] But, you know, like...

[994] And let's bring that full circle.

[995] You were talking about bullying before.

[996] And we can see that start on the playground.

[997] You can actually see that wiring in kids.

[998] They're keeping score of toughness at that point.

[999] And that becomes part of the thing that they're keeping score.

[1000] But then you look at the real masters, like many of these fighters that we know.

[1001] And you transcend...

[1002] At a certain point, the masters transcend the idea of keeping score.

[1003] And they just are, you know, like the baddest fighters are just tough.

[1004] They don't have to show it.

[1005] They don't have to bow up to somebody or bully anybody.

[1006] Like Kane Velasquez, perfect example.

[1007] Exactly.

[1008] He doesn't have to even make a mean face?

[1009] No. He doesn't have to.

[1010] He beats the shit out of everybody.

[1011] No mean face.

[1012] He's not keeping score on toughness anymore.

[1013] The game, he's transcended the game.

[1014] And same with anybody in the morality sphere.

[1015] If they're attacking people and it's just showing their, you know, kind of amateur nature in that game in this kind of lack of.

[1016] of mastery of that because the true spiritual masters, those people who really are the most morally impeccable people, they're not doing that shit.

[1017] They've transcended keeping score.

[1018] People with healthy relationship in business.

[1019] You know, you see that like Elon Musk giving away all his patents and things.

[1020] I don't know him personally.

[1021] I can't vouch that he's perfect, but you start to see principles of, hey, let's just share.

[1022] There's enough to go around.

[1023] And they've transcended this scorekeeping mentality.

[1024] And that's true mastery, you know, when you get to that level, rather than this really poor kind of game of that's such a really good point at that point yeah right you you you know like the the internal scorekeeper i don't i'm not looking at you to get my own validation so i don't need to aggressively try and sell my approach i don't need to prove to you that i'm right and then get your feedback so i feel better about myself you essentially we internalize over time some people have it kind of out the gate because of good parenting or good genetics or a whole host of other of things some people develop it over time through own personal master be able to like walk in the world with that self -confidence that you you're already like you use the word a lot which i appreciate which is impeccability we're already walking an impeccable life we're already aligned with everything that we feel is is important for us to do in the world we've internalized that self -referencing ability to be content whether it's content in the tank or content across the discussion platform.

[1025] I think you have to have varying disciplines in your life as well.

[1026] I don't think concentrating on one thing for any long period of time, although I've done it many times in my life, I don't think it's ultimately healthy.

[1027] I think it's very good short term to achieve great success in a small amount of time or a relatively small amount of time.

[1028] But I think that ultimately that is one of the things that can trip you up.

[1029] If your whole world, say, you know, back to what we're saying, like a computer company, if you own a computer company, if your whole world is that computer company, I think that's ultimately very unhealthy.

[1030] But if you have this computer company and then you start getting into jiu -jitsu, like you might relax a little bit about the fucking computer company and realize, like, oh, okay, like there's a lot of different things I can kind of like put this energy towards, and some of them actually enhance my human potential.

[1031] They actually develop me as a human being and not getting so caught up in those numbers.

[1032] Like there's a lot of people that will look at things.

[1033] This is a really common thing to see.

[1034] say like uh like you'll see a guy like bill gates man if i had his money i wouldn't fucking work at all yeah that's why you'll never have his money it's just like the type of guy that becomes a bill gates is a fucking obsessed dude you you you have to have this insane mindset towards progress and towards continuing to move the number continuing to move that needle and that's the only way you get to develop a company like Microsoft you have to hire like -minded folks, and you have to all compete together as a team to try to achieve world dominance in something as lucrative as the computer market.

[1035] It's the only way.

[1036] You don't get there by being like some casual dude who likes to take a lot of time off and work on myself.

[1037] And, you know, no, you know, you get up Bill Gates' body.

[1038] You look all goofy as fuck.

[1039] You know, that dude doesn't do deadlifts.

[1040] Look at Bill Gates.

[1041] Bill Gates has no submission defense.

[1042] Take his back.

[1043] He just immediately taps.

[1044] Why?

[1045] Because he's put all of his energy into creating this Microsoft monolithic empire that's unstoppable at this point.

[1046] And it's probably, I mean, he's sort of semi -retired now, but I think a lot of that has to do with age.

[1047] You know, and once you got $90 fucking billion in the bank, there also comes to this point where, like, I can't even spend this.

[1048] Like, I literally can't spend this.

[1049] so I think that having varying disciplines like I do a lot of different things and I did no ways but in doing a lot of different things doing martial arts and playing pool and doing meditation and getting in the tank and doing stand -up comedy and doing podcasts and fight commentary and all these various things none of those things have a lot of weight to me they're all very significant and important but if one of them went away I'd be fine like of the UFC called me up today and said, hey, you can't do the UFC anymore.

[1050] I'd be like, well, I had a great time.

[1051] Thanks, guys.

[1052] Appreciate it.

[1053] Take care.

[1054] And that would be, that would be fine with me. Like, I've enough other things that I do.

[1055] You've diversified your portfolio.

[1056] But if it was my whole life, it would be devastating.

[1057] But it's never your whole life.

[1058] Your life is your life.

[1059] And sometimes people forget that your life is your life.

[1060] It's this girl, man, if she leaves me, I can't do it, dude.

[1061] You can do it.

[1062] Trust me. You know how people got dumped and moved on?

[1063] Well, you're the one person who can't do it.

[1064] You get the fuck out of here, bitch.

[1065] Just go to match .com.

[1066] I guarantee you you're going to get laid in a month.

[1067] You're going to be so happy or free.

[1068] You know, get on Tinder.

[1069] These are bad examples, but swipe right.

[1070] Swipe right.

[1071] But involve yourself in more than one thing.

[1072] Diversify your life.

[1073] You can't, if your life is completely revolving around one thing.

[1074] But then there's other places where that is about.

[1075] advice like fighting i think like i think you should have some few things that you do outside of fighting but if you're going to engage in something like martial arts like the amount of time that you have to do to compete the amount of time that you have to dedicate to it it's almost impossible to have any other sort of life well i think one of the key things is there's the development of skills which is important to diversify but you're really developing your identity and then if your sole identity is as a fighter what happens when you break your arm or you can't issue with those.

[1076] Then all of a sudden you're in this huge depression.

[1077] But let's say you're a fighter and you're also part of your identity is, you know, maybe you're a family man and you're a good father.

[1078] And that becomes part of your identity and you're a good fighter and you're, you know, you like to write or you like to paint.

[1079] And then all of a sudden you have multiple things.

[1080] So if one thing leaves, then you have many other parts that really make your life give it purpose, give it meaning.

[1081] And I think the problem can be inherent in any of these things.

[1082] Like you see parents whose sole life is the parenthood process.

[1083] Their identity is their kid's success.

[1084] Their identity is father of so -and -so, mother of so -and -so.

[1085] And so that becomes an issue as well.

[1086] So diversifying your identity to the point where, yeah, all of these are just things, but it's really you, yourself, that you're, you know, this being on this planet, you know, that doesn't need attachment to actually anything at all.

[1087] They're just all parts of your life, things that you enjoy.

[1088] You know, that's the state of in vulnerability where they can take away any one thing even your own physical like physical ability it's something that's very good to cultivate i'm all about it but if you have your soul identity wrapped up in that and you get in some kind of accident you're going to have a fucking hell of a time because if all you look at yourself is your physical ability and you haven't cultivated anything else your spiritual ability or your emotional connection to other people or these other things it's putting all your eggs in one basket it's a dangerous place to be because the universe loves to go around and play gotcha on any type of thing that we have too much attachment to it's crazy how that's such a catch 22 it's like in order to achieve great success you have to it has to literally become your world you have to be obsessed with it you have to like everything that i've ever done that i got really good at i became completely obsessed with it where I was living it, eating it, breathing it.

[1089] Like, I had no identity other than that.

[1090] But that doesn't balance you out as a human being.

[1091] It's almost like you're, you go through these sprints and then, you know, when you get out of the spring, like, let me just stop here for a second.

[1092] I can't keep doing this anymore.

[1093] And then, you know, you almost have to get through that in order to realize that there does need to be some sort of diversification in your interests.

[1094] Miyamoto Basashi wrote about that, the Book of Five Rings.

[1095] One of the things that he talked about, that was really important was that a great fighter, a great samurai, had to also be a great philosopher, had to also be a great artist, had also, like, there was a balance that had to be achieved where there was never any ridiculous anger, there was no outburst, there was no stupidity, there was no foolhardiness, and this was all balanced.

[1096] There was this symbiotic relationship that you had to all of your emotions and all of your fears and all of your ideas is in all of your expression and your art was also your killing and all those things moved together and that without that balance you you would miss something would go wrong you would fail to see it in front of you you would fail to parry you'd fail to counter and you would die on the battlefield yeah if your identity is too wrapped up in one thing you will crave the success in a way in which you need it because you need that to support you in that and the second that you need something or crave something, it belies a certain underlying fear that you're not going to get that.

[1097] And the minute you have fear that you're not going to get it, you're not going to be performing at your best ability.

[1098] So, you know, I heard a great poker player who told me that, you know, his mentor who'd won some World Series of Poker said, you know, you'll win the World Series of Poker when it isn't a big deal if you win the World Series of Poker.

[1099] Like, you've just gotten to the point where you've mastered that art to such a degree that you don't crave that to form your identity.

[1100] You're not afraid of not getting that.

[1101] It's just like, yeah, this is what I do.

[1102] I'm one of the best in the world, and this is what's going to happen.

[1103] You know, when it's, yeah, you can be stoked, but it's not this deep need.

[1104] Because anytime you need something, whether it's a girlfriend, whether it's something in your career, if you really need it to the point where if you don't get it, you think you're going to freak out, you're going to be too afraid to actually get it.

[1105] And then this is also that very important transition for when you actually do achieve that thing, now what?

[1106] Right.

[1107] Like, look at a guy like Mike Tyson and his personal.

[1108] crime.

[1109] I mean, he was the epitome of dedication.

[1110] You know, I remember watching this video of Mike Tyson describing his early morning runs that he could wake up later and run, but he got a little bit of an edge knowing that as he was running, his opponent was sleeping, you know, and that he would work out.

[1111] I mean, he was an impeccable condition.

[1112] When he was being trained by Custamano, he was living the complete total existence of a man hell bent on becoming the world.

[1113] world champion.

[1114] And then once he became the world champion, then he's buying tigers and smacking bitches and punching people and bodegas.

[1115] I mean, he's out of his fucking mind, right?

[1116] Because he'd achieve this unstoppable, this, this status, this peak of existence that he had longed for forever.

[1117] But then where are the goals?

[1118] Now what?

[1119] Every fight is a 30 second assault.

[1120] You know, I mean, those, those 80s fights with Tyson where he would just show up and look at people, they would melt the bruce selden fights where you know he got dropped from a left hook didn't even connect like just the ghost it was like she like and when you i think there's a lack of a challenge then there's a lack of a goal there's no more mountain so now it's just chaos and cocaine and women and and and then eventually the wheels fall off the lack of balance yeah i mean that's the you know that is the warrior poet concept that we lost somewhere along the way we start celebrating people in the extremes, you know, and you celebrate that with extreme amount of money, too, you know, which is the allure, like a laser, someone who can be really good at one thing, can achieve a lot of financial success, but they're not generally going to achieve happiness, but that's not what's celebrated or measured, you know, but that used to be the norm, you know, I think I've talked about it on on here before, like that in ancient Greece, in Rome and in ancient Japan, and this idea of the Bushido and this, this way of cultivating many different skills and talents, calligraphy along with swordsmanship, philosophy along with holding the shield line, you know, all of these different things.

[1121] That's been kind of lost a little bit along the way.

[1122] And I think that's a huge part of bringing back an embrace of what it is to be a man. And for women, you know, what it is to be a woman, holding their own, you know, special magic and whatever field it is, not just attractiveness, not just how good you look, not just how sexy you are, but what other things that you can cultivate?

[1123] You know, what emotional intelligence, what other skills.

[1124] Maybe it is on the more masking side, whatever.

[1125] But rounding out the spectrum of everybody, I think, will really yield much, much more positive results.

[1126] Because, again, going back to these tragedies you see with bullying and all the suicides, so much is attached to, their identity is attached to attractiveness and social status on these networks, where if they were a great poet or a great painter or a great basketball player, a great soccer player, you know, there would be one element of truth that they could always rely on, even when the world seemed to take away that.

[1127] And let's say they were good at multiple things.

[1128] Let's say they were good at caring for an animal and good at and good at soccer and good at, you know, writing.

[1129] And they were attractive.

[1130] All right, well, you take away that one finger of attractiveness.

[1131] It's cool.

[1132] They still got these multiple areas.

[1133] So I think that's a key thing, you know, if you look at developmentally, ideas to instill in young people is having multiple things.

[1134] that they can draw esteem from when everything looks like it's collapsing and say, ah, I can sort it out, you know.

[1135] I think counterintuitively also the idea that bullying is just a natural part of people growing up.

[1136] I think it's a natural part of people growing up that never learn how to fight.

[1137] You know, where you see very little bullying or very little tolerance of bullying, martial arts schools, it is very, it is looked at as one of the worst character traits a true martial artist a true master can have you know like one of the easiest things you could do like say if you want to do jiu jitsu if you want to roll with a guy like marcello garcia you're you're not going to get hurt you're just not going to he's not going to hurt you he'll tap you you'll be forced into positions where you have to tap out but that's not hurting you that's he's going to beat you at the game of jiu jitsu but as far as like harm you he's not going to harm you and as far as the way he treats you he's the kindest sweetest guy ever and one of the reasons why is because he is a true master at killing people with his bare hands without actually harming people.

[1138] It seems contradictory.

[1139] I think the best way to stop bullying in school would be to make martial arts available to everyone and to explain to them that this isn't about becoming a tough guy.

[1140] It's about overcoming your own self, overcoming your own insecurities, your own ego, which is a battle that is constant.

[1141] It's like, is that expression about there's a expression about inspiration is that inspiration is like bathing uh it works but it works for short periods of time that's why we recommend it daily you know like you can't just bathe once a year and go what the fuck i did bathe yeah why am i dirty right you know i mean it's the same thing with developing your mind controlling your ego um uh controlling your fears reissuring your anxieties and assessing the objective view or assessing an objective view of your life and your perspective on the world.

[1142] And I think it's very difficult to do without some discipline, without some sort of task -oriented discipline.

[1143] And in my opinion, one of the best ones is martial arts.

[1144] And it's one of the best ones for dealing with interpersonal conflict because we want to pretend that no one's going to fight.

[1145] We want to, like, well, we don't want bullying.

[1146] We don't want fighting.

[1147] We don't want that in this school.

[1148] Well, you have it.

[1149] Okay, you have it.

[1150] You know why you have it?

[1151] One of the reason why you have it, you're not addressing the underlying problems of what it means to be a person, especially what it means to be a developing man, growing up and having all these thousands of years of instincts and DNA ingrained in your biological system, and then you're supposed to just ignore them, and you wonder why men gravitate towards toxic masculinity, like, you know, video games and fucking watching the Avengers.

[1152] It's not toxic.

[1153] It's a part of being a human.

[1154] Like a part of being a human.

[1155] The reason why we got here in 2015, it's not because everybody did yoga and ate tofu.

[1156] It's because there were fucking warriors and they fought off other warriors because we used to be rampaging tribes of monkey people.

[1157] Okay?

[1158] And we evolved past that over millions of years to get to where we are now.

[1159] But it's foolish to pretend that we're done.

[1160] It's fucking foolish.

[1161] It's foolish to be...

[1162] Why not so hairy?

[1163] What is that?

[1164] That's monkey DNA, man. I'm still fucking animal.

[1165] There's animal in us.

[1166] We're not these aliens with these large gray heads and like frail bodies and we move things around with telepathy.

[1167] Maybe that's in our future.

[1168] We're not there yet.

[1169] And to pretend that we're there now is ignoring our biological system.

[1170] And that's ensuring they're going to have these same issues over and over and over again.

[1171] I think that some of the nicest people ever met have been martial artists.

[1172] And I really believe that if we taught that in school from the time when children were little, so it's not some scary, freaky thing that you have to enter into as an adult, but it's a part of a normal, everyday management of life program.

[1173] I think we would be a lot better off, a lot better off.

[1174] You would alleviate a lot of that anxiety of physical altercation, too.

[1175] It wouldn't be some threat that everybody's holding over everybody's head, too.

[1176] It would be a much easier existence.

[1177] I think you make a perfect point.

[1178] there because it's not in den any time you try to deny these natural instincts that you have you're going to have a problem so and then the other aspect is okay let's placate them all right well that kind of works a little bit but really what we should do is celebrate them and allow them to channel in positive ways you know celebrate that urge to use your body in these strong physical you know forms and martial arts is a great way to channel that jiu jitsu particularly because with Jiu -Jitza, you can go 100 % against somebody and not typically not hurt them.

[1179] It's this real contest.

[1180] Wrestling was a way that a lot of people did that for thousands of years as well, developing different wrestling styles.

[1181] You see it in Africa, the Greco -Roman style, Sumo, whatever.

[1182] It's a way that people can exert force upon each other safely and celebrate the art form of that.

[1183] Same with sexuality.

[1184] And I think there's a huge problem with that.

[1185] People just deny the fact that we're sexual beings and we better not teach sex ed or the kids might have sex what the fuck are you talking about and in the countries and cultures where they teach sex ed younger they have lower teen pregnancy rates right and they have actually more pro -social sexual engagements because people are talking about it you could say the same thing about the psychedelic experience like the island which is a crowd favorite of ours by aldous huxley he talks about the rights of passage ceremonies that includes moksha medicine, which is probably psilocybin, that is done in the group setting for kids as a rites of passage going into their adulthood that's supported and stewarded by those that have already gone through it.

[1186] So like your dojo master, working with people in the early stages of martial arts training, or somebody that's medicine positive and experienced, working with kids going into psychedelic altered states of consciousness to be able to experience, expand their worldview.

[1187] So all these things where we repress information, sexuality, antigenics, physical engagement.

[1188] Anytime we were repressing those things, they're going to come out anyway.

[1189] And they usually come out in these distorted, destructive ways.

[1190] Yeah, so set the bar with really good practices in all of these areas, sexuality, physicality, and spirituality.

[1191] Like, really, if you're nurturing somebody young, you got to hit those areas in a really conscious way and not be scared of them that's just that is what we are like you said we got fucking hair on our bodies yeah let's enjoy that it's not gonna last forever it's a cool time let's really enjoy this period whatever comes next comes next but celebrate that in a positive way you know teach kids not just this is what to do always wear a con and blah blah blah all that but to be like all right this is what to do if you think you're about to come and you really should would rather hold off a little longer.

[1192] Like, you know, not just think about baseball, but there's like tantric practices that can help you, like different breathing techniques that can put that, like actionable information.

[1193] So kids are like, okay, I can calm down a little bit in this situation.

[1194] Maybe this can be, instead of this short, violent experience that leaves everybody feeling like, ah, what was that?

[1195] You know, teach them how to make it a positive experience so they don't get all this baggage attached to these sexual encounters because I've encountered that a lot.

[1196] people who've had really caustic and damaging sexual encounters with people where it's like so much tension built up, so much ignorance around it, and then something happens and it's just short and violent and it's terrible.

[1197] It's like, ah, that was an awful traumatic experience where you could just be like, look, we're all going to have sex, it's cool, here's some techniques, this is what's pleasurable, this is what's respectful, this is what's safe, these are some techniques that can help out, and celebrate that, just the same as you would teach martial arts, just the same as you would steward people through true experiential spirituality where they get in touch with that other thing, either inside themselves or in the other, you know, astral in the light world, whatever you want to say, you know, steward them in positive ways through those main categories, and it's a different fucking world at that point.

[1198] There's also a lot of confusing and conflicting signals that are out there, people expressing themselves in ways that aren't necessarily calm their own anxieties or distort the distort other people's perceptions of reality to to match up with the way they identify themselves i mean you see this all the time with homophobic people who will talk very horribly about gay sex and then you find out that they're actually gay i mean this is it's it's so common like this mixed signal this wire this confusion going on people that don't feel sexually attractive, don't feel awkward, or feel awkward rather, and don't feel like they want to diffuse or deny or demean the idea of the importance of sexual contact.

[1199] Like I read this piece the other day where someone was saying that there is no such thing as the urge for sex.

[1200] There is no sex drive.

[1201] They actually said this.

[1202] They were saying there is no sex drive.

[1203] There's a drive to eat There's a drive to sleep You have drive But if you don't have sex You are fine Whoa And I'm like you're out of your fucking mind Like what are you talking about How do you think there got to be seven billion people in the world We all just decided to fuck Let's try this No there's a goddamn crazy drive There's numerous examples Through every species of people risking their Of animals Risking their life to have sex Sure You know why do these animals in the wild Why do they fight to the death For like the seventh cow the harem or like like you don't do that because you're just trying to survive it's because there's an instinct to reproduce it's probably as strong as the instinct to survive and in some case superseding it how about elk they grow trees out of their fucking head so they could smash these trees into other elk they stab each other these trees have pointy ends they don't grow blunt they have fucking points on the end and if you ever seen elk fight they have holes all over their chest and their cape all over their neck area where they jam their fucking these swords that grow every year out of their head when it's time to fuck when it's time their urge is so strong that their body grows swords out of their fucking head and then when they're done fucking they drop off they fall off i mean it's insane to think that there's not a sex drive it's insane but this is a whole article by some chubby dummy that has shitty hormone balance never goes jogging i'm sure and just feels completely unattractive sexually so they're in denial about the urge and the need and whether or not it's a core component of life because it's so weighted because you use sex to sell jaguars and lipstick and fucking buildings and you know there's always a woman with her legs and long leg and a man with abs and a fucking Calvin Klein commercial and all this sex sex sex sex sex you know there's people that just feel like i'm out of that game like that game does not apply to me i'm here eating donuts my my my my gut looks like a fucking bean bag chair and i'm not that guy or i'm not that girl and so they deny the existence of it and if you uh if you show a picture of yourself looking hot you're fat shaming which is one of my all -time favorite of all the retarded social justice warrior of sayings it's fat shaming like can't shame me if you're not fat how about that well the repression creates these other things like the reason why americans use sex to sell everything is because sex has been so repressed that we in we crave it in some crazy weird way if it was just a healthy relationship with it it would be like why is the really hot girl selling a cheeseburger right it'd be funny and people would laugh at it instead of being like oh parisilton was sauce dripping down her face it was amazing you know those are way less effective for people to get late all the time yeah for sure When people are married and their wife is kind of dumpy and they're kind of dumpy and they just, no one ever touches them and no one's attracted to them.

[1204] And then they see some chick with dark red lipstick on and her breasts are plumped up and she's in some fucking outfit and she's selling Burger King or something like that.

[1205] You're like, oh, buy a burger from you.

[1206] Like, it just draws you to it because it's unavailable because it's just outside of the realm of possibility in your meager existence.

[1207] so they can it's it becomes currency it becomes like a huge selling point you look at the amount of things that we sell with beautiful women I mean it's staggering if you just did a montage of all the different things that we try to sell with beautiful scantily clad women it's amazing I mean it's amazing it's it's a really it's a it's crazy yeah I mean in a healthy relationship I suppose it would be like you know you it's not to not celebrate beautiful women, beautiful women are inherently going to be something that people are going to enjoy seeing just like a great beautiful bouquet of flowers.

[1208] Like you have a beautiful bouquet of flowers on your table.

[1209] You know, you're going to look at that and you're going to say, oh, man, that's beautiful.

[1210] That's a beautiful part of the world.

[1211] That's a beautiful part of nature that exists and you can appreciate it.

[1212] But not using that to manipulate in some weird way and cause a reaction and then use that momentum and steer it and turn it.

[1213] You know, that's where it gets weird.

[1214] But I think all the, you know, often people forget that other part, which is, yeah, that is a beautiful part of the world.

[1215] It's beautiful to look at it.

[1216] It'd be beautiful to smell.

[1217] It'd be beautiful in a variety of different ways.

[1218] We can fully celebrate that, but just not manipulate that urge into something that's not helpful.

[1219] But it's one of those weird things where when things are suppressed, they gain so much energy and so much power that they're almost unavoidable.

[1220] I mean, this is like this momentum and energy behind them that, like, the Catholic priest, that is forced into celibacy and now nobody trusts that fuck because he's just this just barely hanging on clinging just clinging like a piece of cheese cloth holding back the ocean you know just you know you know it's not natural you know it's not normal and that's why the image or the depiction of the Catholic priest has been some sex craze pervert pedophile why it exists It's completely totally unnatural to repress yourself sexually.

[1221] It has nothing to do with homosexuality.

[1222] Like people will say, oh, Catholic priests, they're all really gay, and that's why they're going to the priesthood.

[1223] Gay and molesting kids are completely unrelated.

[1224] That is not what's going on.

[1225] What's going on is these poor fucking people have no sexual outlet, and that is totally unnatural.

[1226] It is the epitome of denying your physical existence.

[1227] It's exactly what we were talking about earlier, the denial of the, the body as a biological organism that has existed for untold thousands of years in the exact same state that you find yourself in today.

[1228] And that existence was predicated on the need to breed, sexual desire, and the fact that your body is making fucking sperm every day of the week.

[1229] Okay?

[1230] It's just constantly doing it because it doesn't know that you're a priest.

[1231] You know, your body just thinks it's a body.

[1232] You know, you have to exist as a human being.

[1233] under the confines of being a human being.

[1234] When you deny your humanity because it doesn't fit your idea or your aesthetic or your ridiculous notions of what you should be, well, you're going to run into problems, son.

[1235] I mean, that's, you, you, we should all aspire to greater heights.

[1236] But in doing so, you've got to address the reality of what the fuck you are.

[1237] That's, again, going back to the definition of consciousness, consciousness is fully embodied.

[1238] You know, it is not just sitting on a mountain only accessing your spiritual body it's fully embodied it's being a human in your body and bringing that home and bringing the the unity of that whole system together that's you know that's what what it really boils down to that's what's going to lead the happiest most fulfilled life and make you someone who society can lean on like an anchor that creates these people that are just the pillars the leaders the people who can be there when the shit hits the fan you know I mean, that's who everybody should aspire to be, an embodied being of consciousness, not just a consciousness being and not just a body.

[1239] Bring it all together.

[1240] And there should be a bunch of us around, so it's normal.

[1241] I'm not say us, like we've got it nailed, but I mean a bunch of humans that are like that around so that we could all sort of feed off each other and imitate our atmosphere in a very positive way.

[1242] And I think, you know, there's a lot of people running through life that they don't have anyone around them that is living a life that they're living a life that they're.

[1243] would aspire to.

[1244] And so it's really hard to dream.

[1245] It's really hard to picture an ideal existence because your existence is sort of, it's modeled out of what you see in your environment.

[1246] In your environment, there's a lot of misery and bullshit and just confusion and despair.

[1247] It's like that, who was the great author that made that quote?

[1248] Was it Walden?

[1249] Thoreau, Thoreau, all men leave, most men lead lives of silent desperation.

[1250] And that's the reality.

[1251] It's like most people, I mean, he's a man, so he wrote about men, but most people, I think, live lives of longing for better.

[1252] Silent desperation, just like, this is it.

[1253] This is what I'm doing.

[1254] Well, you kids, shut the fuck up!

[1255] You know, like, you're in your cubicle and you just want to grab, that image, that famous video of a guy who's in his, cubicle who just starts punching his keyboard and then just smashes his computer monitor and picks it up and smashes on the ground it was all caught by a security camera have you ever seen that video it embodies cubicle life to me because this guy just hit that point what he's like it's fucking fuck you smashes the whole thing I mean this so many people are like on that brink just right there and so they numb themselves they numb themselves with alcohol or medications or television or all of these things to dampen these and make it possible instead of just really looking at what's the what let's go for the fucking win like what's the win what situation even if it's not normal even if it's a little weird even if it's on the fringe like what's the win for me like fuck what everybody else thinks you know i'm going to forge a new way maybe that is being some you know crazy ice fisher in some desolate place or maybe it's living in a non monogamous community or maybe whatever like what's your win right go for the way win like don't just accept yeah okay you know this was okay this this lifetime we did all right we made it through you know just go for the fucking win yeah it's like hunter ass thompson's description of how to end life screeching sideways with the wheels falling off like don't pull in and park at the end of the life like you want you you're radiator to be overheating your engine smoking everything falling apart you know i know this woman sue aiken uh she's on that show life below zero She was on the podcast.

[1256] She's just fucking great, great character.

[1257] She's in her 50s.

[1258] She lives 200 miles above the Arctic Circle in a place called Cavic in Alaska.

[1259] And she loves it.

[1260] That's her reality.

[1261] Her reality is, she went for the win.

[1262] She went for the win.

[1263] And it's not my win.

[1264] It's not your win.

[1265] Not my win.

[1266] But it's that place.

[1267] It's not your win, but it's her win, man. She fucking loves it.

[1268] When she talks about it, she talks about it with, like, true love.

[1269] Like, she is enjoying it.

[1270] She loves that it fits her personality.

[1271] It fits her worldview.

[1272] She loves it.

[1273] She's in the midst of ongoing cryotherapy.

[1274] Yeah.

[1275] She's pretty young, too.

[1276] It's a weak cryotherapy, though.

[1277] You know, she's not really doing the 250 degrees below zero.

[1278] She only gets down to like 90.

[1279] But she does it for way longer, so it's different.

[1280] What were some of when you were treating patients in the, you know, clinical pathology thing, like what were some of the patterns that you saw that were, you know, really, some of the real challenges that people face like growing up you know like what were the main themes that were the hardest hardest to deal with and bring into a healthy adult life trauma and disconnection disconnection from like what joe was saying in regards to mentorship having having a big brother or somebody in that role that they could aspire to be like that could coach them through challenging situations and going through trauma because trauma is so rampant.

[1281] And it's also our representation and our internalization of trauma.

[1282] Some people take that on as an identity that they've been traumatized or they've been abused.

[1283] And because it's not discussed, it's, in fact, shamed.

[1284] It's not really dealt with above board.

[1285] Whether it's people being traumatized sexually because the perpetrator, the person actually doing the traumatic event, they weren't integrated in their own sexuality.

[1286] So it came out in a perverse way or it was the internalization of something that seemed mild, but because they didn't have the languaging and the opportunity to connect with somebody that it held and seeded over time.

[1287] Like if you see animals in the wild, when they get traumatized, like if you were driving a car and you hit a deer, the first thing that deer is going to do when it gets to the side of the road, it's going to shake it out.

[1288] it's going to just move that somatically out of its body because trauma gets imprinted into the somatic infrastructure like prongi was talking about into like the fascia trauma gets fat gets gets programmed into the body it also gets trauma will change the genetic expression you actually see the DNA genetic code change its expression at the time of trauma and that can be recapitulated transgenerationally so from generation to generation to generation, I can still hold my parents' trauma, my grandparents' trauma.

[1289] So it's just like an epigenetic phenomenon?

[1290] It's a transgenerational epigenetic phenomena, right?

[1291] So that's so crazy.

[1292] It's so crazy.

[1293] So we are, and that's what the Native Americans talk about.

[1294] Like, our actions right now do affect seven generations down the line because it takes that long to bleed it out of the genes unless you clear it.

[1295] And so trauma has a big hold.

[1296] That sense of disconnection, because we, We grew up in these disenfranchised families.

[1297] Like, you know, mom and dad drive in with little Johnny in the back, and they hit the garage door opener.

[1298] Drive in, garage door goes down.

[1299] Like little Johnny's getting his social engagement through computer games and through Twitter and Facebook and texting.

[1300] You see kids nowadays texting across from each other.

[1301] It's crazy.

[1302] As opposed to having this engagement, they're texting.

[1303] Not just kids.

[1304] I mean, fucking grown adults.

[1305] I can't tell you how many times.

[1306] I've gone to dinner with friends that are in their 30s and 40s and five people are at a table and everyone's staring at their phone.

[1307] Right.

[1308] Right.

[1309] So where's that sense of connection?

[1310] And that gets recapitulated and it builds particularly because kids are little sponges and their social milieu is really developing its foundation when they're really young that way.

[1311] So if it starts so young, then it solidifies over time until there's a massive interjection of some new kind of thing.

[1312] and so it's important for kids to be absorbed in nature it's important for them to have like the the correct mentorship about not shaming not blaming bringing everything up to the surface and then the whole way that we work with for example like the penal system the whole judicial system is completely backwards we we label the perpetrator and the victim and then the whole legal system is set up against that way it's right that's like warring it's not about like um uh it's It's not about a cooperative model.

[1313] It's not about healing the perpetrator.

[1314] It's about rescuing the victim.

[1315] So people in that victim mentality...

[1316] I'm not even about rescuing the victim, just getting vindication, getting revenge.

[1317] Right.

[1318] Like, I'm going to get paid for being a victim.

[1319] And that perpetrator is going to go off somewhere and not get rehabilitated.

[1320] And people don't typically get better in prison.

[1321] and when you look at like the whole just downstream effect of that victimhood was this really good article by getting the simonton's there were a man and wife couple in the 80s they they had some of the first early mind -body studies that showed the importance of what you think how it affects your body they were he was an oncologist and she was a research psychologist and there were four things that that no matter what level of cancer like stage or what type of cancer There were consistent measures that showed people getting better and people getting worse.

[1322] And one of those that consistently showed people getting worse was victimhood.

[1323] Like they didn't believe that they had any empowerment to change their situation.

[1324] Also inability to give and receive love, resentment, and low self -esteem or self -worth.

[1325] When you had all four of those, you were like, fucked.

[1326] That's a crazy thing, the connection between the immune system and your perceptions of the environment.

[1327] Right.

[1328] Your perceptions of the world you live in.

[1329] Right.

[1330] And you just showed, you just showed me this morning some article in well -being, I think, it was the perception.

[1331] They did this really interesting study of housekeepers.

[1332] And housekeepers that were told that the activities that they were engaging with.

[1333] Just cleaning the hotel rooms.

[1334] So they were told, whatever they were doing, cleaning, fixing things, dot, da, dot, dot, da, dot.

[1335] they were told that that was healthy.

[1336] There was a group that was told that that was good exercise and another group that wasn't told anything.

[1337] And after a period of weeks, they did biologic, physiologic markers and showed that the women that had the idea that they were exercising more, had less weight gain.

[1338] Actually, their weight started to redistribute.

[1339] They had better blood pressure and heart rate measures.

[1340] their whole physiology shifted because of their belief, not because they change their activities at all.

[1341] So when you look at the other side of that equation, you had certain things that because of the way you thought made the illness continue to seed, that cancer profile.

[1342] The two things that consistently help people get better was their faith, their belief in a reason that this was happening or some level of empowerment that they could utilize.

[1343] this experience for benefit, like the housekeepers, and visualization, that you could actually visualize yourself becoming better.

[1344] And they've also shown that with kids.

[1345] And kids are extraordinarily good visualizers.

[1346] When you can, you know, kids that are, maybe it's an oncology department at like one of the pediatric hospitals, when you can help them visualize their immune system actually working against the cancer or overcoming something.

[1347] Or you can project yourself into the future healed happy well and you engage with that and you feel into that and you project that into the future that perspective shifts the physiology the psycho neuroimmunological triad shifts towards healing just because of the power of the mind that is wild like there's a placebo effect involved in being a housekeeper totally yeah well it wasn't just about being a housekeeper it was about being athletically engaged in what they were doing yeah they said that they told one group of housekeepers that the exercise that they were doing met the surgeon general's quota for a healthy exercise for an individual they used like big terms like that met the surgeon general's quota and then they told the other people nothing and then they watched the difference in the groups between and they were all cleaning hotel rooms and this name was randomized and the people who felt that they were meeting the surgeon general's requirement for exercise had all of these dramatic improvements and weight loss and all these physiological markers wow i mean it that's It's so crazy.

[1348] That's just human beings in our minds are so fucking strange.

[1349] And the power of the mind is so immense.

[1350] And it feels like this has only been really discovered over the last hundred years, like even remotely.

[1351] And more so now than ever before.

[1352] It's like an onion that's continually peeled.

[1353] Like, no, I don't think there's a lot of layers here.

[1354] Let's keep going.

[1355] You know, peeling back layer and layer and layer.

[1356] And it's just we're slowly starting to unveil the power and the properties.

[1357] and subsequently a management system for this incredible engine that we have to construct our environment.

[1358] Yeah.

[1359] Joe Dispenza just wrote a book, You're the Placebo.

[1360] And he's got all, he's got the great scientific background.

[1361] What is this name?

[1362] It's called You Are the Placebo, Joe Dispenza.

[1363] Dispenza.

[1364] Yeah, he has a ton of articles in.

[1365] And that was, I think I was talking about in the last.

[1366] His name?

[1367] D -I -S -P -E -N -Z -A.

[1368] And he was the one who cites all of these examples of, these placebo surgeries, these sham surgeries, like arthroscopic knee surgeries that they did, where they did a placebo knee surgery and a real knee surgery, and found that the outcomes were identical.

[1369] And in some cases, the people with the placebo knee surgery, where they basically cut the skin and sewed it back up, they had better outcomes than the people who had actual knee surgery.

[1370] Like things that you think should not have a placebo effect, like if you're going to have knee surgery, it's probably pretty important that you're going to do that.

[1371] No, you can actually cut the skin, tell somebody, yep, surgery went great, and they'll recover better than the people who actually got the surgery in some cases.

[1372] Wasn't that dude in that video, what the bleep do we know?

[1373] Totally.

[1374] And back then, you know, that was kind of like the leading edge, too, of this whole mind -body experience, and it was, you know, showed with kind of the meeting of science and metaphysics.

[1375] Up until that ramp, the lady came on screen, and then you're like, wait a minute, what's your name?

[1376] Hold on.

[1377] What's going on here?

[1378] You're a thousand years old?

[1379] Okay.

[1380] You're a thousand -year -old spirit that is embodied in this woman, and you're talking nonsense.

[1381] Everybody else seems to be talking science.

[1382] And you organize this bitch?

[1383] You organize this whole thing.

[1384] Okay.

[1385] Yeah.

[1386] What?

[1387] What the bleep do we know?

[1388] What the bleep do we know was so goddamn confusing because there was some really interesting stuff in that.

[1389] There was some really sound science in that.

[1390] Yeah.

[1391] And there was also some fucking flaming, rocketing horse shit.

[1392] projectile horseshit It's like You couldn't get away Oh Get out of here That's kind of the nature Of our world now Right Like the skill of everything Is not being able to Throw away all apples With worms in them The skill of our world Is to be able to cut out Worms effectively And then eat the fucking apple And also Recognize it in human beings That you maybe like Some aspects of them Right I was having a conversation With a friend of mine about this guy that we know that is clearly, in some ways, a weasel.

[1393] He's just, he's weasily, and he's super ambitious, and you can't trust him, and he's not, he's just not cool.

[1394] And he had a bunch of, like, really bad interactions with other people that I know that came to me independently and said, look, this guy's a fucking fraud.

[1395] This guy's a piece of shit.

[1396] But I know him to be also a very good dispenser of interesting information.

[1397] When I communicate with him, like, he, he is.

[1398] really good at dispensing this information.

[1399] He gathers it.

[1400] He's like, he's dedicated to it.

[1401] And there's a lot of positive qualities in that.

[1402] And he actually enjoys, he enjoys expressing himself in this way.

[1403] But then all the other stuff, it makes it so hard.

[1404] So some people just write him off.

[1405] And I'm like, I can't write him off.

[1406] I can't write him off totally.

[1407] But unfortunately, he's an exercise.

[1408] He's an exercise in recognizing like what, how much of these qualities are positive and how much of what he is is just.

[1409] douche.

[1410] I think I've seen that when I've dealt with different shamans and spiritual teachers, you know, where people tend to want to put them on a pedestal as this being that's this perfect being.

[1411] And then as soon as they see something a little flawed, they're like, oh my God, my holy savior is not the holy savior, I think.

[1412] He's like, no, he's just not perfect like everybody else.

[1413] He's still really good at this and this.

[1414] And just accept him for that and watch out for this little shitty part that he's still working on.

[1415] it's okay still trying to get late yeah exactly like people you know especially in that arena they demand this this level that's just not realistic you know like they did demand this intense perfection you know that was uh one of the things that people will bring up the detractors of terns mckenna they always bring up the fact that he had some holes in his science and there were some some of his stuff was bullshit maybe maybe but you can't listen to his hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of available hours of lectures that he had and not be inspired.

[1416] Right.

[1417] If you have any psychedelic curiosity and you listen to this unbelievably free thinker, this guy who's just like really willing to put himself out there and some sort of a, and you know, maybe he missed the mark occasionally, but he's shooting a lot of fucking arrows.

[1418] Yeah.

[1419] You know?

[1420] There's even more extreme examples like I've just recently found out what a crazy fuck Carlos Castaneda was.

[1421] Oh yeah.

[1422] He was insane.

[1423] He was yelling at people.

[1424] He may have even convinced these women.

[1425] women who he was dating to at least disappear when he died.

[1426] I don't know, they might have committed suicide.

[1427] Who even knows?

[1428] There's a lot of speculation because all the women he was dating disappeared when he died.

[1429] So he was possibly even a bad person, like straight up, not a good person.

[1430] But nonetheless, you know, I'll put a quote from Castaneda out and, you know, people will just, oh, he was a crazy fuck.

[1431] He was like, yeah, but this thing makes sense.

[1432] This little pit of philosophy still makes sense and is still valuable, even if he was a crazy fucking person.

[1433] Like, Be able to cut out the worm and say, admit, like, yeah, that dude was not a fucking good dude.

[1434] But he had some ideas that can be valuable when taken and applied.

[1435] And you get to that, you'll level up way faster because you'll get to keep more gems than other people who are just discarding everything.

[1436] It's like the G -Cundo of life.

[1437] Yeah.

[1438] Absorb what is useful.

[1439] Exactly.

[1440] Bruce Lee had it nailed.

[1441] Perfect.

[1442] Yeah, perfect.

[1443] And do your shadow work.

[1444] Yeah.

[1445] Shadow work?

[1446] Yeah, which is oftentimes what happens in the psychedelic experience or even flotation.

[1447] What do you mean about shadow work?

[1448] Like recognize within yourself, ourselves, what's behind the curtain?

[1449] Like being able to see those aspects of myself that I haven't fully integrated, fully accepted.

[1450] Because it's only my projection and judgment of somebody else is only a reflection of the shadow material that I haven't integrated myself.

[1451] And usually it's those things that I project onto others that I'm so emotionally.

[1452] connected to or people that really piss me off in a particular way, that's related to my own shadow work in that other side of the coin that I haven't looked at yet.

[1453] Like the person saying there's no such thing as a sex drive.

[1454] Yeah, look at her shadow work.

[1455] What's there?

[1456] What's behind me?

[1457] Or his.

[1458] I don't remember as a man or a woman.

[1459] But either way, no one's fucking her.

[1460] Or him.

[1461] No one wants to.

[1462] It's not happening.

[1463] You know, I'll tell you who doesn't talk about that.

[1464] Jennifer Lopez.

[1465] That bitch knows there's a sex drive.

[1466] She's built an empire off of it Right Let's end this pitch This is a lot of fun Thank you Thank you A lot of fun Thank you Great great conversation And so to get in touch with you Your Twitter is At Dr. Dan Engel Dr. Dan Engel E -N -G -L -E Right Yep Yeah D -R D -A -N -G -E And of course Aubrey Marcus Is Aubrey Marcus on Twitter and anything else to say?

[1467] Anything to promote?

[1468] Anybody?

[1469] Anything important?

[1470] No, man. A lot of cool stuff going on, but we'll all follow us on the social channels.

[1471] We'll point the finger at the moon.

[1472] Yeah, cool shit.

[1473] And remember to don't concentrate only on the finger because then you'll miss. I forget the quote, Bruce Lee.

[1474] Oh, the heavenly groy that lies beyond.

[1475] Dan Engel, thank you very much, sir.

[1476] Appreciate it.

[1477] Good time.

[1478] Thanks, everybody.

[1479] Much love.

[1480] See you soon.

[1481] Bye -bye.

[1482] Thank you.