Don’t Be Another Statistic in the Debt Disaster

[0] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people, build well, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author, is my co -host today, also host of the ever popular Dr. John Deloney Show.

[2] If you check it out on Ramsey Networks and anywhere great podcasts are sold, you'll check him out there.

[3] He's our Ph .D. around here that helps folks with counseling issues, and it's going to work right into everything we do here today for sure.

[4] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[5] Clay is in Amarillo, Texas.

[6] Hi, Clay.

[7] How are you?

[8] Good, sir.

[9] How are you?

[10] Better than I deserve.

[11] What's up in your world?

[12] Oh, wind's blown and we're dry.

[13] That's about it.

[14] Sounds like Amarillo.

[15] Yes, sir.

[16] I'm a rancher down here.

[17] I'm 25.

[18] I bought my first ranch or bought my only ranch when I was 21.

[19] I had a question on, I follow you guys on social media and stuff like that, listen to you on the radio.

[20] But you talk about not having debt, and I'm wondering how you run an operation without an operating note.

[21] because even though cattle prices are through the roof right now there's other things that are expensive as well yeah yeah I'm sitting in a building that's about $600 million and a studio that this studio is probably I don't know 10 million probably and the way we did that with a $300 million revenue we started it on a car table in my living room with absolutely no money just me me myself and i that was the whole freaking board of directors and um and i and i started with the promise that i would never borrow money because i'd gone broke borrowing money and because i read the bible and it said the borrower slave to the lender and i'm a simpleton and i believed it and i'm just not borrowing money so the way i have gone from a card table to where i'm sitting today without borrowing money is uh it sounds like a Saturday Night Live skit, but to start with Clay, I just didn't borrow money.

[22] I mean, that's it, period.

[23] I'm not going to borrow money for anything.

[24] Now, what that means then is, how do I run a business?

[25] How do I grow a business like I've grown this one without borrowed money?

[26] And that is, I grew it more slowly than some of my friends who are now out of business because the bank foreclosed on them during COVID.

[27] I grew it more slowly than some people thought I should who thought they were smarter than me who have less money than me now, I grew it slowly, frustrated the crap out of me because I wanted to go faster because what we do is help people.

[28] And gosh, by going slowly, we're not helping as many people as we could help.

[29] And that's really frustrating.

[30] And I grew it slowly because it's all I had because I can only use my profits to grow with.

[31] I can only use my profits to buy equipment with.

[32] I can only use my profits to add payroll and new team members with.

[33] It's my only option, and it forces me to be very selective.

[34] It forces me to say no to a lot of things, but then when times are tough, I don't have a note, and I'm still here, and I'm still growing, and we're still the number one brand in the entire space in the nation.

[35] There's no one even close to us with a social.

[36] media footprint in the space that we're in or the podcasting or the YouTube footprints or the revenue that we produce and the the amount of people interacting with every dollar nobody's even close we freaking own the space we are the 800 pound gorilla now but that's the way we got there is we were a starving little monkey that didn't borrow money you know and so that that's it I mean it's not it's not rocket surgery it's just it's just that is but it's hard to do because you're obviously a sharp dude i mean who goes and buys a ranch at 21 well it's not a wuss you're obviously a stud man you're going for it who's out there operating a business like you're already operating at 25 years old way to go man you know and so you you got ambition you got things you got things you want to do you have an idea in the shower every morning that you can't do if you don't borrow money and some of those ideas suck by the way Clay how how much in the hole are you if you if you put all of your liabilities out on the table how big is how big is a hole about half a million and i know you're not supposed to ask this in the 806 but how big is your ranch it is 250 okay good for you what are you running on it cattle cows yeah probably because cow prices are up and so um by the way nine -tenth of that is the place itself the Yeah, that makes sense.

[37] Of course.

[38] Like it's mortgage.

[39] I do owe a little bit of money on some cows.

[40] I've got two payments left on those.

[41] But other than that, that's the only debt that I have.

[42] Well, you've pretty much avoided debt except for your real estate mortgage.

[43] And so that's a, that's far beyond what a lot of people in your world do.

[44] As you know, the farming and ranching world is big on debt.

[45] And they think they can't do it if they don't have an $800 million combine that runs circles by itself with a GPS and does a double backflip at the end of the row.

[46] It's got a pool in the back.

[47] I rode on one of those, Dave.

[48] It was air condition.

[49] It was nicer than my car.

[50] Yeah.

[51] Oh, way nicer.

[52] The stereo system's better.

[53] Oh, yeah.

[54] Much better.

[55] Hey, Clay, I want you to check out the carbon cowboys.

[56] These guys that are changing the way ranching is done.

[57] And their proposition is you don't have to borrow this kind of money.

[58] For the fertilizer, for the equipment, it's just a radical shift.

[59] And they're net neutraling the dollar.

[60] They're dollar for dollaring it.

[61] So give them a shot, too, just to check them out how they're doing farming.

[62] It's pretty impressive stuff.

[63] Yeah.

[64] So what I would tell you this, Clay, is this.

[65] In the radio world, the broadcast world, it's like the farming world in the sense that everybody borrows money.

[66] But most people don't make it 10 years.

[67] They're out of business in a 10 -year cycle because the risk that goes with a borrowed money.

[68] You feel the pinch.

[69] That's why you're asking the question.

[70] Oh, yeah.

[71] I mean, we're not struggling, but it's right.

[72] We don't do anything extravagant.

[73] No, but it makes you think.

[74] You have to stop and think.

[75] I got this note.

[76] Every time you get ready to do something, you've got to think.

[77] I've got to make this note.

[78] And last year it didn't rain.

[79] It got pretty dicey, didn't it?

[80] Oh, yes, sir.

[81] The fires this spring.

[82] Yeah.

[83] That's right.

[84] There's fires.

[85] There's drought.

[86] I mean, it's tough.

[87] Tough slutt.

[88] What we are proposing is not only countercultural in America.

[89] It's super countercultural in the farming and ranching world.

[90] But the ones that do it have a longer life in business.

[91] And they have a better quality of life.

[92] But they grow slower.

[93] They grow slower.

[94] And they don't have, you know, you don't go from 250 acres to 2 ,500.

[95] in 20 minutes.

[96] But you have those if you do it right, you have those anti -fragile moments when let's say it all goes, let's say there's a bad drought for three years and you've just kept tortoise in the hair and it, you just kept plugging along and plug it along and your ranch got bigger by 10 acres and you bought 15 over here and you bought this.

[97] Eventually, the drought wipes out your neighbors and they have to sell you their ranch for pennies on the dollar.

[98] That's what, if you hang on and hang on and hang on That's what happened here.

[99] Suddenly, oh, I just tripled my footprint for very little money because I just went slow.

[100] Yeah.

[101] The number of times I bought out vendors inventory of pennies on the dollar, the number of times I bought out competitor stuff at pennies on the dollar over the years because I'm sitting on the cash.

[102] I got no notes.

[103] You're going slow.

[104] And I'm the only guy that's boring.

[105] It's so boring.

[106] It's not sexy.

[107] It's not.

[108] Nobody thinks you're cool.

[109] You're not on the cover of Fast Company magazine, you know, which, by the way, has been through four owners.

[110] This is the Ramsey Show.

[111] So here's a quick math refresher.

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[117] That's NetSuite .com slash Ramsey.

[118] The number one bestselling book is building a non -anxious life.

[119] That's his latest number one.

[120] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[121] The best way to make the most of your money is by telling it what to do instead of wondering where it went.

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[143] You can download it for free, and you should.

[144] is in Kansas City.

[145] Hi, Tyler.

[146] How are you?

[147] I'm doing great.

[148] Thanks for taking a call.

[149] Sure.

[150] What's up?

[151] So my wife and I, particularly in an interesting situation.

[152] We are trying to juggle between prioritizing saving up for a house to get her out of a job that's not the best environment within the next two to three years or prioritizing the debt we already have, which is not much and paying that off now.

[153] And so I'm, you know, I'm, stop, I'm confused how, you getting a house gets her out of a toxic environment so with her job we actually have provided housing on space for where she works so as soon as she quits the job we don't have the housing that we live on okay so you could rent true i left university housing and me and my wife rented a house i was a dean of students at a fancy university you can do it okay um so okay to further my question then with with the money that we have currently um should we just just like go right into renting because the renting expenses are going to be more than what we possibly could afford in the environment that we're in.

[154] We're saving up about a thousand dollars a month, not on top of the investing and all the other steps that we're doing with every dollar into the baby steps towards a house.

[155] But you can't afford a house.

[156] You can't afford a house.

[157] You can't afford a house.

[158] You can afford the payment on a house, but you can't afford a house.

[159] Do you know the difference?

[160] Yes.

[161] Yes.

[162] Okay.

[163] I'm afraid you're going to wake up in six months and have gotten her out of this job and then y 'all got this house payment and then you got this debt and then she's going to end up pregnant or you're all going to have a car emergency and then you're going to have a mess yeah this is one one uh toxic environment to another toxic environment okay and i've lived in a house two different times that i really couldn't afford and it has created so much tension in this in my home that it almost cost me my marriage i just i can't tell you enough don't do that okay go rent a house and let the smoke clear on your marriage on her all that pain all that toxicity all that nightmares to let that smoke clear and then it'll give you some time what is the nature of the toxicity at the war so um two factors one she works right now between 15 70 hours a week and a labor intensive job she's a female she's 120 pounds so that's impacted secondly uh the position that her authority is in is borderline emotionally abusive and it's not a good environment i mean there's nothing physically going on but it's just it's just a really tough environment it puts a lot of stress on her personally.

[164] I'm not sure I completely understand because sometimes I hear things that people say are emotionally abusive.

[165] Like somebody said, hey, go get your job done.

[166] You're emotionally abusive.

[167] No, you're freaking lazy.

[168] Go get your job done.

[169] That's not emotionally abusive.

[170] Yeah, and so that's not the environment I'm talking about.

[171] I'm talking about like going back on their word or, you know, overworking your underpromising stuff like that.

[172] And so that's where I'm personally in a space where, hey, like, I want her out of this position.

[173] How long has she been in this position?

[174] She's been in this position and the current position within the company for the last two years.

[175] And how old are you guys?

[176] So I am going on 27 and she's 26.

[177] Okay.

[178] All right.

[179] Well, as far as I'm concerned, if I'm in your shoes and I've been in similar situations over the years, there are two options.

[180] one is you know this is so bad for real we're not just using the this is not just discomfort there's a difference between discomfort and a toxic environment if she's working 120 hours a week and she says I'm not willing to work 120 hours a week or I'm not willing to work 80 hours a week or I'm not willing to work this number of hours then they fire her then that's their option but you can just start having like boundaries like when somebody starts speaking to you inappropriately you say hey whoa whoa you know you can't talk to me that way you can fire me but you can't talk to me that way absolutely so your wife's ability to say no to her or to this environment is part of the problem her lack of boundaries and um that's why you know and so if she cannot put up reasonable boundaries to say okay i can only work a reasonable number of hours i'm 120 pounds i I can't lift, you know, heavy boxes all day long, 16 hours a day.

[181] I can't do that.

[182] I can work eight hours or I can work 10 hours.

[183] And I like my job and I like the benefits and I like the money you give me. And I can do that.

[184] And I'm not going to be yelled and screamed at or cussed at.

[185] And so you've got to talk to somebody else that way if you're going to.

[186] And suddenly, bullies pull back then and don't bully as much.

[187] That's one option is deal with the situation.

[188] and suck it up and push on through.

[189] Or the other option is go rent something.

[190] But using this situation to justify doing something stupid and getting your family in a pinch and saying, oh, the only thing we could do to get away from this toxic wicked witch of the west is to go buy a house we couldn't afford and go bankrupt.

[191] These are two negative options.

[192] And if you're, I'm choosing between two negative options.

[193] No, let's go with C, none of the above.

[194] And Tyler, I want to double click on what Dave said because it's really important for the character or in the strength of your home.

[195] if you leave an environment because somebody kept beating you down and you have to it takes years to heal from abuse it disconnects you from yourself if she has her head up high and said you kept telling me that this you were going to hire three people and you haven't you're dishonest i refuse to do work that you that i told you i'm physically unable to do i can't can't work 90 hours a week.

[196] Like Dave said, I can work 50.

[197] I can work 60 in limited runs and the rest of the time I've got to be with my family.

[198] If y 'all can't be people of character and integrity, I'm going to walk out that door.

[199] And when you walk out like that, not it's emotional abusive.

[200] No, they're just not telling the truth.

[201] They're lying to you.

[202] But you walk out with your shoulders thrown back.

[203] And that sets the tone for your home.

[204] That sets the tone for the next job she applies to.

[205] It helps you see the world a little more clearly than walking through disconnected from yourself.

[206] That's a little bit more of taking the victor position.

[207] That's right.

[208] That's right.

[209] And that's a setting a solid boundary with people who don't like boundaries, you generally drives them nuts.

[210] And they usually lose their minds and they may fire you.

[211] I mean, so when people that don't appreciate that they're standing on your property, they're taking some of your hours, they're taking some of your emotional well -being.

[212] And then you say, you can't do that anymore.

[213] I'm going to set up a boundary.

[214] I'm not going to give you as many hours and I'm not going to give you my emotional well -being.

[215] You can't stand on my, get off my lawn, you know.

[216] And when you say that to somebody who's used to getting away with it, they generally go nuts.

[217] Right.

[218] But I've had a boss that I said, if you say these things to me again, I'm going to walk out of that door.

[219] I've said that.

[220] And they circle back and said, I'm sorry.

[221] And it was offensive.

[222] It was rude with their saying, but it was, they said, I'm sorry.

[223] I won't happen again.

[224] And it never did again.

[225] But it was me just saying, you can't swear at me in this meeting again.

[226] I'm going to get up and walk out of the room.

[227] And it was, I'm sorry, you're right.

[228] So there was just standing up.

[229] But I also had to be prepared, man. They could have said, well, you can take your bag and walk out that door, right?

[230] They can do that too.

[231] Because they're in that position.

[232] You're in that position.

[233] And, you know, so if you got fired from a place you were going to quit if they kept screwing you, that's not like a loss.

[234] No. Yeah.

[235] That's like a gain.

[236] So, you know, because you said you can't do this anymore, they go, oh, okay, instead of leaving because.

[237] So I would recommend setting some boundaries.

[238] at a minimum as a step one and to create to lower the toxicity I don't know that you'll get rid of it because you're probably dealing with a moron but you can lower the level of moronic influence and you know really you can't just by limiting it's what a boundary does I'm putting up a shield here you can't come inside the shield I'm extending my personal space you got all up in my stuff here and I'm going to create a little room here and you're in my personal space And when you do that, it changes a lot of stuff for you.

[239] I'd recommend doing that as step one.

[240] Step two is if you get fired or decide you can't take it and you quit, go rent something cheap and go someplace if you've got to move out of the city.

[241] Go move out of the city and rent something cheap.

[242] I don't care.

[243] But don't use it an excuse to do something stupid.

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[252] Dr. John Deloney -Ramesi Personality, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, Ph .D. in counseling, and he's here to help.

[253] The office hours are open.

[254] The phone number is triple 8 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[255] So, John, this is interesting to me. I've been doing this show since 1992, so 32 years.

[256] And the first year we went on the air, there was a huge problem in America with credit card debt.

[257] And there's still a huge problem.

[258] I'm doing no good.

[259] I'm not making any progress.

[260] There's still a huge problem with credit card.

[261] card debt.

[262] Google Trends recently reported in the U .S. how to lower credit card debt, in quotes, reached an all -time high as a search item.

[263] For those that don't know, Google Trends is part of the Google reports what people are searching for.

[264] There it is.

[265] Okay.

[266] So what this means is that more people than ever before, well, since Google, not ever, but since Google, are searching for how to lower credit card debt.

[267] That makes sense in 2024.

[268] We now know that credit card debt has gone over a trillion with a T dollars.

[269] So how do you pay off your credit cards fast?

[270] What do you do?

[271] Well, this is what we've been doing.

[272] As a matter of fact, if you, like Google Dave Ramsey, the first thing you're going to hear is how to get out of debt, right?

[273] John, I mean, it's like they may not know I know how to do anything else, but they know I know how to do that, right?

[274] It's like on your license plate.

[275] It actually is.

[276] It says zero debt, yeah, on my license plate, on a very nice car.

[277] And so, but that's because the car doesn't have debt.

[278] That was the message because you can't drive a car like that.

[279] Unless you have debt, everybody knows that, but you can't drive a car like that if you've got debt.

[280] And so, here's an interesting thing.

[281] Here's something for you to think about, folks.

[282] We live in the most marketed to society, culture, in the history of mankind.

[283] In the United States of America, you receive more marketing impressions across your eyes and ears in a given day, more money is spent, more brain power and sophistication is spent to sell you things than any group of humans in the history of mankind ever at this moment.

[284] Marketing, selling things to you in ads and Google pop -ups or whatever it is you want to do, whatever ad, whatever version of advertising or marketing you want to think about, you get a diet out there of that that's greater than man has ever gotten any time in history.

[285] No one has ever walked the earth that has been hammered like you've been hammered by marketing.

[286] That's a pretty bold and big statement, but it's also true.

[287] It's not hard to figure it out that that's the truth.

[288] And here's what's interesting.

[289] Among all of that, the most dollars that are spent to sell a single product, line, more than any other product line, any other mindset, any other thing you want to sell, any other brand you want to sell out there, the most advertised and marketed product in dollars and in brain power, by far in the most marketed to culture in the history of mankind, is debt.

[290] More money is spent to sell you on getting in debt in the most marketed to, culture and the history.

[291] This is not, this is a big deal.

[292] In other words, when you add up what MasterCard, American Express, Discover, and Visa spend in a year, it's more than all the professional sports make in a year.

[293] It's more than Egypt takes in for their entire economy in a year, just to sell you those four pieces of plastic.

[294] And they are good at it.

[295] The things just magically show up in your mailbox, your inbox, your dead dog for four years ago will be issued its own line of credit and it'll show up in a credit card on your mailbox.

[296] Fru -Frew the Dead Poodle will get a credit card in America today.

[297] I've got it.

[298] I've got a copy of Frue -Frew the Dead Poodle's dog.

[299] A guy sent it to me from New Orleans.

[300] He says, I actually, and a guy in North Carolina applied with a fraudulent social security number under the name Buck.

[301] naked and was issued a $20 ,000 line on a visa card.

[302] Wow.

[303] Because they don't even look.

[304] They don't even check your credit on about, but about one out of ten of the applications.

[305] And so they issue these pieces of plastic like water going down a drain.

[306] And you're walking around like, I'm somebody because you're not somebody.

[307] You don't even necessarily breathe for you to get a credit card.

[308] You don't even necessarily have to be a breathing human to get a credit card.

[309] I've just proven that to you.

[310] These are not made up stories.

[311] It's the most aggressively marketed product in America today.

[312] And people are walking around going, I have a platinum titanium.

[313] It's a plastic version of a precious metal.

[314] Plutonium American Express card that you can't even cut up because it's made from plutonium.

[315] Dave, can I tell you something embarrassing?

[316] in college when I got out and I had student loan debt and I was broke Oh I did And no I did I got a gold I got a gold I'm not lying to you I called the number on the back and said I need to talk to an account executive They sent me through I told her thank you I thanked her For taking a chance on me And she was like You know we just felt like And I was like hey It was pretty awesome And she's recording the call They're playing it back the next morning of sales meeting right now they're playing it right now they're like see we're doing a service i thanked her man so what we teach people is here's wells fargo bank have plastic surgery don't fall for this you are a sucker to the man you're a sucker to the man you're a sucker to the largest marketing machine ever known to man what's in your wallet money that's what's in my wallet money because i don't have this crap in my wallet i don't have to to go to the chiropractor because there's 73 credit cards in my wallet and I sit sideways every day with my back pocket, you know, and so my back's out of alignment.

[317] I've actually found people that did that.

[318] They're backheeled.

[319] It's the George Costanza wallet.

[320] Yeah.

[321] When they got rid of this.

[322] So plastic surgery, having a placectomy will change your life.

[323] Dave, you don't have any credit cards?

[324] I don't have any credit cards.

[325] I haven't any credit cards for 40 years.

[326] How do you, well, by the way, I just got back, I took a little tour from London to Iceland, and I just got back day before yesterday.

[327] And you know what?

[328] I had a credit card.

[329] It was amazing.

[330] You know what they took over there?

[331] Debit cards, just like credit cards.

[332] They had no difference.

[333] And did the currency exchange, did the whole thing.

[334] And I actually had, you know, a big old wad of cash in my pocket because I always care.

[335] Because American dollars are taken almost everywhere.

[336] It's amazing.

[337] They find a way to take them, you know, if you go, you know, you can go in the poorest country in the world and they're going, yeah, I'll take that.

[338] But very few times, you know, I found a few people that snooted me and said, you need a euro sometimes in Europe.

[339] But most of the time, you just walk around with the dollar.

[340] But, I mean, everywhere I was, they took plastic.

[341] And so I obviously had no issue.

[342] And I just dropped my little debit card in there.

[343] I have four pieces of plastic in my wallet.

[344] A debit card on my business, a debit card on my personal account, my driver's license, and my handgun carry permit.

[345] That's all that's in my wallet, other than green president's faces.

[346] And lots of those, of different kinds, by the way.

[347] I like to click different colors or different, different faces on there.

[348] So, guys, don't fall for this crap.

[349] And don't tell me your debit card is not safe.

[350] It's got the exact same fraud protection, exact same fraud protection as your credit card.

[351] Go look it up on Visa .com.

[352] It's called a zero liability policy.

[353] Look it up on MasterCard .com.

[354] They both have the exact same phrasing on their, websites like they were owned by each other or something.

[355] But the debit card's got the exact same stuff.

[356] Listen, shut up.

[357] You're not going to get rich borrowing money at 18%.

[358] That's just straight up stupid on a string, okay?

[359] You've got to make a decision.

[360] I'm not going to live like this.

[361] And these people, they're stupid, man. They just keep doing it.

[362] Look at this one.

[363] New Wells Fargo credit card program with a novel feature.

[364] You can use it to pay your rent, but it may not be working out quite as well as the bank at hope.

[365] Wells Fargo is losing as much as $10 million a month on this new card.

[366] So you're telling me people that pay rent with their credit cards, a credit card that was designed to help them pay rent that they couldn't afford.

[367] Oh, wait, so you're loaned money to broke people and you're bitching because they don't pay it.

[368] Shut up, Wells Fargo.

[369] You're getting what you deserve.

[370] You signed up for this trip.

[371] Guys, boys and girls, really, you got to decide.

[372] Are you going to be like everybody?

[373] else?

[374] Everybody else is walking around collecting airline miles.

[375] Millionaires, they stack cash.

[376] This is the Ramsey shop.

[377] Hey, when you go against what society thinks is, quote, normal, like avoiding debt, for example, it might seem weird at first, and that is totally okay.

[378] We want you to be weird if that means doing things intentionally, including how you spend your health care dollars.

[379] And one way to be intentional is with Christian health care ministries.

[380] CHM isn't health insurance.

[381] They're a health cost -sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families, like yours, take care of health care costs without sacrificing their freedom.

[382] Find out more and join at chmistries .org slash budget.

[383] That's chmistries .org slash budget.

[384] Dr. John Deloney -Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[385] Dave is in Orlando.

[386] Dave, how are you?

[387] Hi, Dave, I'm doing great.

[388] How are you?

[389] Better than I deserve.

[390] What's up?

[391] Great.

[392] So my wife and I are really excited, so we are adopting our two foster kids.

[393] Awesome.

[394] Way to go.

[395] Thank you very much.

[396] We are super excited.

[397] They are two and three years old brothers, and the great one just couldn't be happier.

[398] So should happen in August.

[399] And my question is, you know, we've always tried to be really financially smart and good with our finances.

[400] Obviously, we want to pass that on to our kids.

[401] But being that they are in the system, they are going to get money every month, $650 a month per child until they're 18.

[402] And naturally, this is their money.

[403] I want to keep it for them.

[404] So my question is, what is the best way to go ahead and save this for them?

[405] Should I open up a brokerage account in their name?

[406] should it be an upma.

[407] I was looking into a 529, but that's actually not needed because they're exempt from paying tuition in Florida.

[408] So what are your thoughts?

[409] What should I do?

[410] What's your household income?

[411] Right now it's $2 .30.

[412] Okay.

[413] You're welcome to do whatever you would like to do.

[414] I would not do what you're doing.

[415] You're going to discover very quickly that it costs a whole lot more than $650 a month to raise a kid.

[416] And so I would dump the $650 a month.

[417] into the budget and then just raise the kids and as a part of raising the kids I'm going to invest and become wealthy and leave them a big old pile of money and have some money for them when they come out of college and have some money for them but you're not morally ethically and certainly not legally bound to set this money aside for them and you're it it's not inherently unholy to just mix it into the family budget because you're spending more than that on them by far you're going to spend a lot more than that on them okay yeah that was that was actually so that was my my wife's thought when we talked about this or she had that idea as well so and 529 is not needed but you know if you just have mutual funds that are not in retirement that you're investing in and those funds are nicknamed you know I'm going to leave that make sure this is to help them get their first house this is to help them get started after they get married and they're 25 right um and you know you you dump some money in there occasionally and you try to you know and then when they because you're you're going to be a multimillionaire if you're doing the stuff we're teaching it sounds like you're very responsible you're making a quarter million dollars a year and so you know if you've got a couple of accounts like you got a couple of accounts laying around they got a couple hundred thousand bucks in them that are kind of earmarked for the kiddos and you're going to help them buy their first house or you're going to help them do whatever out of that then but there's no uh compulsion to keep it completely separate and clean, morally, ethically, legally, or anything.

[418] People do that with child support sometimes, or they do it with, if a spouse passes away, you get Social Security money for the spouse that passed away to the kids.

[419] They get big checks, or not big checks, but good checks, like you guys are getting.

[420] And so, you know, that kind of stuff.

[421] And in all those cases, we just say there's no need to mix child support.

[422] Just mix it in the budget.

[423] There's no need to take Social Security money and hold it aside.

[424] mix it in the budget and you got what you guys are doing you're going to be such great moms and dads because your heart is so pure on this you guys are amazing thank you for for what you do what you're doing and those kids are blessed to have you thank you very much yeah i'm going to try not to cry but we love them so much you know and we weren't able to have kids biologically but but now that we're here and everything we've gone through we we know it was it was all for a reason and we just couldn't be happier and um just just one last comment you know we we are um baby steps millionaires already so so we are uh you know on a good path and and last thing with the kids we're getting $10 ,000 for each kid because I am a veteran as well so I'm assuming with that too would just same thing to our budget and yeah they'll be set up yeah and you know again again your your biggest thing here is not the actual dollars that you leave them as you know your biggest thing is to transfer your value system, which got you where you are called hard work and thrift and generosity.

[425] These are your financial values.

[426] You work hard.

[427] You don't, you know, you've studied hard to get to be who you are.

[428] You know, teach them those things.

[429] Teach them live on less than you make.

[430] Teach them live on a budget with a plan.

[431] Teach them, you know, when you were three and we adopted you, we started thinking right then about you paying, about paying cash for your first house so that you never are in debt and that will set you guys up to be millionaires real quickly but that comes with some strings.

[432] It comes with you being a good human because I'm not going to give you this money if you're doing heroin.

[433] Yeah.

[434] You know, and so you this is just, you weave this whole narrative of handling money wisely as a part of your parenting structure.

[435] And John, that does change everything, doesn't it?

[436] Yeah.

[437] I'm just overcome a little bit, man. I'm getting choked up a little bit, but with the level of gratitude for a family like Dave, who took one of the most painful experiences, unable to have kids, and they grieved it, and then they said, okay, what's the next thing for us to do as a family?

[438] And they're going to adopt two little brothers.

[439] And it's beautiful now, and I know it's going to be hard.

[440] me a hard road to hoe and it's a pretty amazing thing that they're doing but i think you're right i think parents get so caught up in stuff i want to be able to give them this thing and give them this thing and man the greatest gift you can give your kids is a living example of values um in the real world right like like let him see you tip well let him see you honor that waitress who's the only person running all these tables and the food wasn't that great like let the kids see you be who you are and man that's money's awesome money's nice but let's transfer values let's transfer values there you go love it steves in wilmington delaware hi steve how are you oh day thanks dr john thanks for taking my call uh appreciate it sure how can we help i feel oh okay well i think i feel like i'm stuck in the mud i read your book total moneymaker with a new one i've been following the steps i think i'm on baby step four but somehow I got backwards in my emergency fund that I feel is in a brokerage account in a smart investor fund.

[441] So my question to you is, should I leave that there and rebuild the emergency fund in a money market account?

[442] I think I could fund it probably in three to four months for sure.

[443] That's fun.

[444] But you do need a separate emergency fund.

[445] Here's what happens that I had to learn because it killed me. the first time I ever saved $10 ,000 and I had to name it an emergency fund instead of an investment and I put it in a stupid money market account and it wasn't making anything and then I could start investing the first time I did that because it's the only $10 ,000 I'd ever had in my life or since I've been broke anyway since I went broke.

[446] It was the only time I had $10 ,000 and I'd worked so hard to get that $10 ,000.

[447] And now I got to not invest it.

[448] for a math nerd that just broke my heart right and i had to figure out the the emergency fund the purpose of it of that 10 000 in that example is not an investment the emergency fund i always make when i'm doing live events i make the crowd say not an investment four thousand people say not an investment right it's insurance everybody say insurance insurance right and what does insurance do?

[449] It costs you money to protect the things that make you money.

[450] That's what insurance does.

[451] And that's what your emergency fund does.

[452] It sucks if you look at it as an investment.

[453] It's not an investment, though.

[454] It's insurance.

[455] And so the money that you're not making, what we call opportunity costs, because it's in a high yield savings instead of in a brokerage account, the money you're not making is your cost of that insurance policy.

[456] I call it my sole tax.

[457] I pay four to five percent every month to sleep soundly.

[458] Yeah.

[459] And I love it.

[460] Yeah.

[461] That's it.

[462] So, yeah, Steve, that's a technicality in your case because you've got it dialed in.

[463] You know what's going on.

[464] Your intellect is grasp what you're supposed to do.

[465] So, yeah, just get your high -yield savings account and dump three to six months of expenses in there as your emergency fund.

[466] And just any time you look at it and want to puke a little, just say not an investment.

[467] It's not an investment.

[468] It's insurance.

[469] And when I buy homeowners insurance, I don't say, oh, that was fun.

[470] I always go, ah, it's something I've got to do because it's smart to protect that asset, but it costs me money to protect that asset.

[471] That puts this hour, The Ramsey Show, in the books.

[472] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[473] Thanks for hanging out with us, America.

[474] We're glad you're here.

[475] phones at triple 8 .8 -825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[476] Number one best -selling author of the book, Building a Non -Anxious Life, Ph .D. in counseling and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, Ramsey Personality, is my co -host today.

[477] Open phones at AAA -825 -5 -2 -25.

[478] Jump in, and we'll talk to you about your life and your money.

[479] Hillary is with us.

[480] Hillary is in Salt Lake City.

[481] Hi, Hillary.

[482] How are you?

[483] I'm good.

[484] Thanks.

[485] I appreciate the chance to be able to talk to you.

[486] I'm honored to speak with you.

[487] How can we help?

[488] So I just see a lot of people my age or younger, bragging and boasting about their nice cars, houses, and vacations.

[489] And I just feel like I'm losing it life.

[490] I live a pretty humble lifestyle.

[491] But what am I doing wrong?

[492] How do I afford this?

[493] You said people your age.

[494] What is your age?

[495] I'm 33.

[496] Okay.

[497] You're single?

[498] Yes.

[499] Okay.

[500] What do you make?

[501] I make $60 ,000 before taxes.

[502] Good for you.

[503] What do you do?

[504] I'm a health educator.

[505] Mm -hmm.

[506] Cool.

[507] All right.

[508] Do you have a lot of debt?

[509] I actually have no debt except for my mortgage, which I only owe $140 ,000.

[510] Mm -hmm.

[511] Okay.

[512] All right.

[513] Well, this is the problem that the millennial, your generation, was one of the first ones to really, really struggle with it.

[514] Rachel Cruz, my daughter wrote a number one best -selling book, talking about this whole thing of the power of social media and the power of, it used to be that we would say, don't keep up with the Joneses.

[515] Have you ever heard that old saying?

[516] Of course.

[517] Yeah.

[518] But the problem was in those days, you know, it wasn't as hard to keep up with the Joneses because they lived next door.

[519] and you saw them drive in their car, but you also saw them have a big fight.

[520] And you also knew that their kids were messed up, and you knew this and you knew that.

[521] So, you know, when they got a car, it wasn't as big a deal because you kind of knew some of the dirt, too, right?

[522] But on social media, your only thing you're looking at is the highlight reel.

[523] You're only looking, because nobody posts on there, how my husband just got me a 1992 Honda, hashtag blessed.

[524] You know, nobody does that, right?

[525] and nobody posts the three weeks after the beach vacation and the fight around the credit card bill because we can't buy groceries and diapers yeah they'll post that and so what you're seeing and really our whole culture even old people like me that look at social media we all can fall prey to this because we're not seeing reality what we're seeing is only what you know have you ever seen these pictures of these little like all the little children in the little like they're five and four and six and they're all like wearing little white suits and they're on a picnic blanket and they're at the park and it's like oh we're at the park when i went to the park with three kids it looked like freaking wringling brothers in barnum bailey circus one of them's in the mud the other one's pulling the other one's hair we wouldn't have had a picture like that in a million years can you imagine taking rachel cruise at four years old to the park and expecting her to behave.

[526] Not a chance.

[527] I don't know how these people get those.

[528] Are those mannequins?

[529] How do they get them to sit like that?

[530] Take that picture.

[531] And that's what you're comparing to.

[532] They push a button now and it takes a thousand pictures at once and it catches one.

[533] And it's like, that's it.

[534] Right.

[535] Hey, so.

[536] Photoshop their own kids.

[537] Hillary, where are you seeing this?

[538] Are you seeing on social media?

[539] You're getting your friends texting you about it?

[540] Where are you seeing it?

[541] Just kind of everywhere.

[542] I mean, social media is a big part of it, obviously with TikTok and Instagram and Facebook, but also just you know at work someone says oh i'm going to the bahamas for two weeks or oh look at my new escalate and it's just like have you ever been to the bahamas no but i'm like your escalate costs board let me just tell you there's a couple places there that are nice but there's a whole lot of dumpy crap with like one good picture on the website too i mean it looks like like 1960s holiday end down there a lot of times be careful with that one uh i love the bahamas i just love it but anyway yeah i mean even atlantis is getting really old i'm just saying Here's, Hillary, here's the, I think it's a both -and.

[543] Yeah.

[544] That escalate is actually really an amazing car.

[545] They're very nice.

[546] And 99 % chance, that's not real money that bought that.

[547] And so if you just called into the show and said, I'm a 33 -year -old, single female, I make 60 grand, I only have 120 grand left on a house I bought myself.

[548] We would be going, touchdown!

[549] We would celebrate you as.

[550] like the model I I'm looking and saying I hope my daughter Josephine is in that kind of situation if she finds herself 33 making 60 grand in Utah and she's unmarried I hope she's exactly in the situation you're in that'd be amazing you're amazing you've done it great you're doing it right I guess you're the indie filmmaker and all you have is a camera and you're telling real stories and you can't compete with the Godzilla movies that are made in computer labs that's what you're doing well that makes me feel better because I just you know and I also recently just paid cash for my master's degree And so all that money that I had saved, I'm just like, that could have been a vacation or a car.

[551] I shouldn't have done that.

[552] Dude, you just put an investment in yourself for the next 50 years of your life?

[553] You traded a master's degree for Bahamas.

[554] This is a good trade.

[555] I hope so.

[556] Oh, man. But yeah, I guess it's nice to have some reassurance.

[557] And here's the other thing.

[558] I had to go through the thing when I was a little bit younger than you when I went broke.

[559] I was 28.

[560] And I was driving a Jaguar when I went broke.

[561] and um it broke my heart to drive a hoopty after that and i drove this horrible old vehicle and but i by then had become so disgusted with me and how i was behaving with the people like the people you're talking about i was buying stuff that for other people look at and i got all that completely fried out of my soul when i went broke and i don't buy anything now for anybody except up for sharing of me. I don't even care if my kids like it.

[562] As a matter of fact, I kind of like it if they don't like it.

[563] So I just buy, I buy stuff 100%.

[564] I drove a really nice car today because I really like that car.

[565] I don't even care if anybody sees it.

[566] I like the car.

[567] And I had a good time driving it here.

[568] And that's the only reason I buy it.

[569] So, but I used to have to pull up in those hoopties.

[570] I drove a car that was loaned to me that was a 90 % Bondo.

[571] And it, the, the The vinyl roof was torn loose across the front.

[572] So when you drove it, it filled up with air.

[573] It looked like a parachute on top.

[574] And so I would pull up at a stoplight after having driven a jaguar, and the top would settle.

[575] It would deflate.

[576] It would deflate come back down at the stoplight.

[577] Meanwhile, I'm sitting next to people in nice cars that just got home from the Bahamas.

[578] And I'm looking at them going, what am I doing wrong?

[579] And what I finally realized that today, if you did that, if you pulled up next to somebody, the stoplight today.

[580] The average car payment at that stoplight is $750.

[581] See, I like what you said.

[582] Yes.

[583] Your verbal comment was perfect.

[584] You're winning, Hillary.

[585] Okay, Hillary, can I poke at one quick thing before we go to break?

[586] Sure, sure.

[587] How much of these videos you're seeing, these pictures you're seeing of these trips are reinforcing a sense of loneliness?

[588] Probably a lot because I feel like they just can go do whatever, you know.

[589] Okay.

[590] I want that to be, I want that to be where your emphasis is, not on trying to get the vacation.

[591] Should I get a master's degree and pay for it with cash or go on vacation?

[592] Of course, get the master's.

[593] I want you to start creating opportunities to have friends and community and connection and laughter right where you live.

[594] Start cultivating that, and it's going to make the other shiny stuff.

[595] It's just going to, it's just going to not be that big a deal.

[596] You're right where you need to be.

[597] Buying your first home is a big deal and sets the stage for your financials.

[598] success.

[599] So, work with a mortgage advisor you trust not just some random website.

[600] Churchill Mortgage is Ramsey trusted because they help you avoid hidden traps and expertly guide you through every step.

[601] Learn more at Churchillmortgage .com.

[602] This is a paid advertisement.

[603] An MLS ID 1591 .com and MLS Consumer Access .org, Equal Housing Lender.

[604] 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100.

[605] Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027.

[606] A couple of books to tell you about a remind you of.

[607] For one thing, many of you are looking for the simple, straightforward plan to get out of debt, work the baby steps.

[608] Well, the book that taught everybody the baby steps is called The Total Money Makeover.

[609] We're celebrating that book because, wow, now it's actually, what is it, 20 years, 25 years old, 20 years old, whatever it is.

[610] We're celebrating the anniversary of the book, and it's just came out with a new version of it, updated it.

[611] And for $20, you get the total money makeover.

[612] and three months of every dollar premium for free.

[613] So for less than a movie ticket or a few drinks at Starbuck, you can invest in changing your life.

[614] Go to Ramsey Solutions .com.

[615] Get the new anniversary edition of the total money makeover.

[616] It includes three months of the premium version of every dollar.

[617] Also, one of my best friends in the world is a guy named Dr. Henry Cloud that wrote a book called Boundaries, and he's a good friend of Johns as well, well -known psychologist.

[618] Boundaries is what made Henry a household name for some of you.

[619] He's also written plenty of other books, necessary endings, integrity or two that come to mind.

[620] And always about relationships and business and, you know, he's a psychologist, and so he's always writing in those veins.

[621] And he did something a little risky for him.

[622] And he sent me the manuscript and I read it about six months ago when he was in the middle of it and I had tears running down my face it is I read everything that Henry writes number one he's a world -class thinker and author but number two he's a good friend and this is a book completely different than anything he's ever done it's called why I believe a psychologist's thoughts on suffering miracles, science, and faith.

[623] So it's my good friend Henry explaining why he believes in God.

[624] Because he runs in an intellectual world, a bunch of nerds.

[625] And he said, I've always wanted to tell my friends these things, but I sometimes lose the courage to do it in person, and it can't find the right venue, and it's uncomfortable.

[626] And they always wonder these things about me because they know I'm a person of faith, They didn't know why, and they couldn't juxtaposition that with their science knowledge, you know?

[627] Yeah, Henry and I were talking a few weeks ago, and I haven't seen him this clear -eyed and excited about getting a book out.

[628] I mean, this one's sitting on his chest, and it sounds pretty remarkable.

[629] I can't wait to dig into it.

[630] Yeah, his last book was the number one or number one or national bestseller as well, trust.

[631] It just came out about a year ago, I guess, and all about how to build trust and how to regain trust after it's broken.

[632] those kinds of things.

[633] We had him on the show talking about that.

[634] But this is completely, it's a departure for him.

[635] And I highly recommend it.

[636] Why I believe, it's very well done.

[637] It's, if you ever wondered, oh, there it is.

[638] You ever wondered why bad things, how can God exist if bad things happen?

[639] Oh, yeah, that's classic doctrinal juxtaposition there, right?

[640] So how is it that we could have little children suffering and there be an all -loving God?

[641] How is that possible?

[642] How can you figure that out and work that through from a philosopher's viewpoint or theologian's viewpoint?

[643] Yeah, it's very interesting.

[644] So Henry, as a psychologist, tackles all this.

[645] Why, I believe, is a brand new book it comes out today, but I've recommended highly.

[646] Christy is with us.

[647] No, I'm sorry.

[648] Chastity.

[649] Chastity is with us.

[650] I'm sorry.

[651] I got half looked at it.

[652] In San Francisco.

[653] Hi, Chastity.

[654] How are you?

[655] Oh, it's so good.

[656] How are you guys today?

[657] Better than we deserve.

[658] or what's up um so i kind of had a uh awakening moment today kind of threw my hands up in the air and i'm totally at a loss so i'm calling in to uh get some advice on a credit card of course um i have a 13000 dollar credit card actually it was 15500 um and i started the baby steps and i got it down to 13 7 um but it's a credit card with interest rate of 20 26 .9, I think.

[659] I got it when I was younger, but I've had it for like 10 years and it's gotten this way way up there and now I'm starting to be like, how do I get this down?

[660] The interest rate is so high every month that goes up to $300, I think it's $330 interest alone, minimum payment of $450.

[661] So I'm just kind of really upset with myself.

[662] I have a lot of anxiety and it's kind of just gotten out of control.

[663] I've tried, I'm thinking about doing the balance transfer, but then you were like, no, it's just, you know, I just don't know what to do.

[664] What do you make, Chastody?

[665] What's your income?

[666] So it kind of differs because I'm a flight attendant and my hours are kind of all over the place, but this month I'm making probably $5 ,000 without taxes taking out, so probably $60 ,000 a year.

[667] And I don't have a lot of, a lot of other things.

[668] It's just the credit card.

[669] My car is paid off.

[670] I do pay $1 ,600 in rent because of San Francisco.

[671] But I really don't have anything else other than this stupid credit card.

[672] How did you end up in San Francisco as a flight attendant?

[673] Well, I was kind of lost because I don't have a college degree, and I was like, how am I going to be able to make it in the world?

[674] And I just, I love traveling, so I just jumped into it.

[675] How did you end up in San Francisco, though?

[676] Being a flight attendant in San Francisco is unusual.

[677] So we have huge bases in these big cities, New York, San Francisco, those kind of places.

[678] So I just got stuck with San Francisco kind of Oh, they assigned it to you Where they put me Could you transfer to a much, much cheaper place to live?

[679] No, a lot And I've been, I have a transfer in right now to Houston Okay, yeah, that would be like half Yeah But I'm kind of stuck here at least for a year Because I am in a leave Okay Is your schedule so inflexible that you don't know, or let me assist, do you find days?

[680] I know a month.

[681] Okay.

[682] I know a month in advance, yeah.

[683] So like next month I'm only making $39 ,000.

[684] So what are you doing, what are you doing in your off time?

[685] On your off days, yeah.

[686] So the FAA has regulations on how much we can work.

[687] We can only like work six days in a row.

[688] So on my off days, I'm at home.

[689] So the thing I know about anxiety is the more you think about, it the more powerful it becomes and the only way I've seen anybody be successful myself included dealing with anxieties to head directly through the middle of it with action and so my challenge to you would be if you already know I'm gonna have thirty nine hundred dollars next next month which is about eleven hundred bucks less money than I normally bring home you could already be lining up Uber jobs Uber Eats jobs and is that sexy no Does anybody want to be doing that?

[690] No, but you could drive from 6 a .m. to 6 p .m. Stuck in that car, making a chunk of money, and you could have this debt knocked out like in three or four months.

[691] And it'd be gone from your life.

[692] Yeah.

[693] You know what I'm saying?

[694] Yeah, it's just...

[695] I know.

[696] And this is where my anxiety comes into place, because I was paying $1 ,000 on it, like before when I started the baby stuff.

[697] Hold on, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm sure to stop right there.

[698] I want to stop right there.

[699] Anything that happened yesterday, I want to wipe it.

[700] off because it's it's just bleeding all over today let's simply make a plan moving forward and act on that plan what you know is you're going to have fewer days to work next month and you're going to be at home just sitting at home why not take one of those mobile jobs that came out of your area and just get after it it will be uncomfortable yes annoying yes all those things yes yes yes yes yes and we're playing a 120 day game four months down the road we're going to not owe this debt anymore because we worked really hard for four months.

[701] You see what I'm saying?

[702] Your anxiety will go down when you're working all the time.

[703] Your anxiety will go down when you're paying off the debt that's giving you anxiety.

[704] And see, Dave, my family's kind of like you.

[705] They're like, you just need to go to work.

[706] You need to get over it.

[707] So what's wrong?

[708] No, no, no. I don't say get over it.

[709] No, not get over.

[710] I said go to work.

[711] Go through it.

[712] Don't get over it.

[713] Don't get over it.

[714] Go through it.

[715] But why not go?

[716] What's wrong with going to work?

[717] No, nothing.

[718] Okay, good.

[719] Good, because that's what you've got to do, kiddo.

[720] Let's answer to your question.

[721] Otherwise, you're just sitting on the couch worrying.

[722] And you're worried about this.

[723] The big old pile of anxiety on the couch.

[724] A race, who cares about the interest rate?

[725] Just go straight through it.

[726] $13 ,000.

[727] You can knock this out.

[728] If you paid off at three months, interest rates are irrelevant mathematically.

[729] It doesn't matter.

[730] That's right.

[731] This is The Ramsey Show.

[732] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, Personality is my co -host today.

[733] Steve's with us in Boston.

[734] Hi, Steve.

[735] are you.

[736] How are you doing?

[737] Better than I deserve, sir.

[738] What's up?

[739] So a couple of years ago, my wife passed away unexpectedly after having her second child.

[740] So I'm finally, mentally, I think, in a place where I can go back to the finances and try to tackle what we had begun.

[741] My question becomes, it's student loan -based, should I withdraw funds from, my TSP to pay off my student loans and just move forward with everything from that point, starting fresh, or maintain my TSP and just make larger payments into student loans.

[742] Wow.

[743] How old are you?

[744] 40.

[745] How old was she?

[746] Same age.

[747] When she passed, she was 38.

[748] Yeah.

[749] What was her name?

[750] I'd rather not.

[751] Oh, okay.

[752] Good call.

[753] Good call.

[754] Okay.

[755] And it was childbirth?

[756] Yeah.

[757] He was born substantially premature, so he had probably five months in a NICU.

[758] And he still has, he still has some medical issues.

[759] So.

[760] But she passed during childbirth is what you're saying.

[761] Yeah, shortly after, within a day or two.

[762] Okay.

[763] I'm so, so.

[764] Sorry, Steve.

[765] What do you do, man?

[766] So I work for the government, actually.

[767] And TSP, yeah.

[768] And so what's your income?

[769] Salary, $105 ,000, and then I collect VA disability on top of that, and that's about $30 a year.

[770] Okay.

[771] So you've got $145 ,000 to work with.

[772] and what savings you had, the co -pays and the out -of -pocket portion that the insurance didn't cover, wiped it out?

[773] Yeah, yeah.

[774] Okay, all right.

[775] Were these student loans, any of them hers?

[776] Are they all yours?

[777] No, they were all mine.

[778] Okay.

[779] Okay.

[780] And how much debt is a student loan?

[781] About 115, give or take, 32 federal, and then the remainder, I believe it's 85 ,000 private.

[782] Okay, but 115 total.

[783] All right.

[784] Yeah.

[785] And I think you said you have two children.

[786] Is that right?

[787] Yes, that's correct.

[788] Okay.

[789] So you have a two -year -old and how old's the other one?

[790] Four.

[791] Okay.

[792] Wow, man. you got your plate full brother um you're amazing i'm i'm so proud of you for just just getting up every morning wow um well in the middle of all this uh uh strain raising two little ones one of them a preemie and going through the tragedy that you've been through um uh i think you've done really well to just be where you are because a lot of people they could or you could have really done some really dumb things in the last two years and had good reason to have not had your brain working well you know what I'm saying yeah so I think you've done a really really good job holding this together way to go um the um the the mathematical answer and the correct answer is no don't take money out of your TSP to clear the 115 although Although what you're trying to say, what I'm hearing in this story is enough pain already.

[793] I don't want any more pain.

[794] I've had enough pain.

[795] I've got pain.

[796] I don't need any more.

[797] I don't want a sacrifice to pay off this student loan debt.

[798] I just want this crap to go away.

[799] But the problem is when you pull the money out of the TSP, you're going to get the 10 % penalty plus your tax rate, which is 35%.

[800] So you're going to pay 45 cents on the dollar to pull this money out.

[801] 45 % interest you're borrowing money at to get rid of your student loan no don't do that okay that's the answer it's um it would it would temporarily feel really good to to have a win you know and uh and and so that's that's what motivates you to think this way and i'm really glad you called i'm going to beg you not to do that even though i completely understand them the pain threshold that you're dealing with um and so So I, you know, what I'm going to do is tighten down the budget and it's going to take you, you know, if you said $145 ,000 and we live on $110, then it's going to take you three years to clean this up, right?

[802] Yeah.

[803] Yeah, and that's what I'm going to do.

[804] You're going to be $43 and you'll be debt free and you'll be continuing to rebuild your life and have this new version of what tomorrow looks like that you're leaning into, right?

[805] Yeah.

[806] yeah yeah I was kind of I was thinking along the same lines I think I just needed somebody to validate it yeah well listen have you been through financial peace university ever no actually I haven't okay I'm going to give that to you as our gift I want to come alongside you and let you because that'll give you some a safe place to learn and even a group of people to be with while they're learning the same things while you're processing because you've been processing a lot in the last 24 months, agreed?

[807] 100%.

[808] Can you hear us when we tell you that we're proud of you?

[809] Yes, yes.

[810] It's nice to hear, believe me. Because I know you've had a lot of long days and long nights and really dark nights and there's nobody there cheering you on when you're changing diapers and you're changing out, you know, like, you know, lines, whatever you're having to do.

[811] And we just want to know, we want you to know we see you.

[812] And we're grateful for you, man. Yeah.

[813] Yeah.

[814] My son's got a four -year -old and none of the other problems.

[815] And the four -year -old's enough.

[816] Yeah, he shows up kind of haggard sometimes.

[817] Yeah.

[818] He ain't got none of the other stuff.

[819] He just got the four -year -old.

[820] And that's enough.

[821] I'm just saying, just throw in a two -year -old for the heck of it and mix in some of this other stuff.

[822] Man, wow.

[823] Wow.

[824] You're a stud, man. Hey, we're here for you.

[825] If you need us, you call us, anytime we love you and you hang on christian will pick up and we'll get you guys get you signed up for financial peace and we'll walk with you while you move into this next phase of life the way you didn't think it was going to look uh ouch that's that's one of the few things dav i cannot wrap my head around i can't wrap my head around going home and having the house be quiet and having my wife not be there and then think i'm going to make good choices the following minute i just can't wrap my head around it it's tough yeah my heart goes out for people we've designed our whole estate plan that i die first and there's a reason it's because sharon has a plan but i can imagine your state attorney being like uh what happens if dave what happens if you die sharon and she's like that's not going to have the state attorney is like yeah have you seen the way he eats no there's no way i'm not she walks eight miles every morning there's no chance he's going to outlive me so oh i can't I can joke about it because it keep me from crying.

[826] But I'm with you.

[827] I can't get my head around that.

[828] And the sad thing is on this money stuff is that when tragedy happens, and you can give tragedy a bunch of different names, but death of a loved one is certainly tragedy.

[829] The math on this stuff doesn't stop.

[830] No, that's the hardest part, man. and so the negative math of the debt just keeps piling up and the positive math of the investments just keeps piling up right money doesn't care right it doesn't have a soul it doesn't give you a day off because you're having a bad day it doesn't give you um it doesn't take a day off because you're not working hard it's the hardest working when you get working for you but what you said was what you said to this this this this good guy It was so true.

[831] I just, dude, I just want to stop hurting.

[832] I just want to stop hurting.

[833] And sometimes at 11 o 'clock at night when the kids were asleep, but I'm just scrolling by myself, I'll take the 45 % hit.

[834] I just want this to go away and I'm going to be able to breathe again.

[835] I need a win.

[836] And you just need a friend to say, hey, please don't do that.

[837] Please don't do that.

[838] We'll be your friend.

[839] Yeah.

[840] We'll walk with you, man. That's what we do.

[841] And we're honored, honored to be your friend for just a moment here.

[842] That's what we do for America.

[843] This is The Ramsey Show.

[844] Dr. John Deloney -Ramsay personality is my co -host today.

[845] Thank you for joining us, America.

[846] Today's question comes from Christian in Tennessee.

[847] My wife and I went to college and racked up significant student loans.

[848] The crux of our problem is that part of it was on a parent plus loan that's under her father's name.

[849] Her father and mother would like to get rid of that loan.

[850] They want us to take it on.

[851] We're in no way, shape, or form in a position to take on.

[852] what has now turned into a $60 ,000 loan, we feel bad, want to help out, but don't know what to do.

[853] I hate Parent Plus Loan.

[854] I do too.

[855] I do too.

[856] Thanks for picking me up there.

[857] My headphones got all tangled up, and I was stumbling and bumbling.

[858] Okay, Dave, tell me if this rings true with you.

[859] I'm 18 years old.

[860] Mom and dad have it in their heart that they want to make me happy, so they co -signed for this loan for this thing.

[861] That's not a co -sign.

[862] It's a Parent Plus loan.

[863] They just borrowed it.

[864] They borrowed it.

[865] on a thing that we can't afford.

[866] Assuming there was not an agreement around a kitchen table that we're going to take this parent plus loan, but you're going to be responsible for it.

[867] Now they're realizing, oh, this is a $60 ,000 loan, and they're not in shape to pick it up, and we can't keep carrying this thing, so we need each of all to take it on.

[868] At the end of the day, mom and dad signed the loan, they signed the loan, they signed the loan.

[869] Yeah.

[870] Right?

[871] Right.

[872] Just from a legal perspective, obviously Christian does not owe the money, his mom and dad owe the money, period.

[873] end of story okay so if you just say no they got to pay it legally now morally did you promise them when or did she promise them her father and mother um did she promise them that she would take on the loan after she graduated and they just took the loan out on her behalf on a handshake morally if that's the case then you have a different kind of a contract although it is a contract It's not a legal contract, but it's a morally binding.

[874] She gave her word, in which case you guys have a loan.

[875] Now, you can't just take on the loan.

[876] You can take on the payments.

[877] You can pay off the loan.

[878] You're not in a position to do that, but you can pay extra payments and pay off the loan.

[879] You can treat it like it's your loan.

[880] But legally, it never comes out of their name until it's paid off.

[881] You can't just decide, I'm going to move this to somebody else's name.

[882] They don't let you do that.

[883] okay and there's not a consolidation that consolidates your loan into my name there's no such thing okay so it's going to stay there in their name if you pay payments and you pay extra payments to get it paid off until it is paid off but i'm with john i i think the the thing that is not in your question not in your email here christian is did your wife promise her mom and dad at the time they took out the loans that she would take it on after graduation if she did then the two of you need take it on 100 % you need to take it on if she didn't then I'm sorry that they are inconvenienced by their former decisions her mom and dad took on a loan I'm not really sorry that was sarcasm but yeah um big girl big big big daddy big mama done signed up for this thing and then they're going to dump it on the kids because I don't like it now yeah and to get a parent plus loan that means you've taken out a whole bunch of other loans too that is your your wife's probably carrying, right?

[884] And if you met at college, you probably got student loans too.

[885] So I can see this whole thing being a big mess.

[886] Dave, and this is why we say this over and over and over and over.

[887] The number of times this turns into a rift in the relationship between parents and their kids is so high.

[888] Yeah, it's approaching 100%.

[889] Just don't do it because you're going to pay for it relationally down the road.

[890] It's just not worth it.

[891] Don't borrow money for other people and don't co -sign for anything ever under any.

[892] any circumstances.

[893] A hundred percent of the time, this goes sideways, boys and girls.

[894] So my little brother needed a car, so I borrowed the money.

[895] A hundred percent of the time.

[896] My boyfriend wanted a car, so I borrowed the money.

[897] A hundred percent of the time, you end up being a caller on this show and entertain the rest of America with your foolishness.

[898] If your little brother needs a car and you can give him one, give it to them.

[899] But don't borrow money and say, okay, we're going to have a payment plan.

[900] Your kid wants to go to college.

[901] You want to make them happy?

[902] Teach them to work.

[903] Don't pick a college.

[904] They can, afford or don't go to college.

[905] Go be a welder.

[906] I don't care, but don't go in debt.

[907] Go spend 10 grand and go to code school and make 150 ,000 bucks coding.

[908] Okay, but don't go in debt.

[909] This is the student loan stuff is absolutely stupid.

[910] It's so out of control.

[911] It's people are putting off having children and buying homes because of student loans.

[912] We must forgive them, but we continue to make them.

[913] This is so intellectually dishonest.

[914] On one side of these politicians' mouth, they whine and cry about the poor little people who have gotten themselves destroyed by these student loans, and it is horrible.

[915] And out of the other side of their mouth, they keep making the stupid loans.

[916] Congress, hello.

[917] If you have screwed up the culture with these loans, stop making them.

[918] Hello.

[919] What other time in history?

[920] Could an 18 -year -old go down to the bank and convince a banker to loan them $145 ,000 to go play beer pong?

[921] What other time in history could this happen?

[922] Every time another in history, a banker would have looked at you and said, you're a dadgum fool, son.

[923] There's a great comedian.

[924] He said, it's basically a small business loan, and I'm the business.

[925] You shouldn't loan me money, right?

[926] It just doesn't make any sense.

[927] It's the dumbest.

[928] program ever.

[929] But it was all predicated on the idea that education solves everything.

[930] And education doesn't solve stupidity, turns out.

[931] It exasperates it.

[932] So, especially when you add with education, the idea I need to go to a famous school.

[933] I need to go to a school that's well -known.

[934] So now I'm really going to go deeply in debt and get a degree in left -handed puppetry.

[935] So I can owe $260 ,000 and be a barista.

[936] This is what this crap has created.

[937] And, and And you and I, boys and girls, the taxpayers are paying for that.

[938] Christian, I'm so sorry you're in the middle of this mess.

[939] I'm sorry, you just got me riled up.

[940] But I just hurt for you, folks.

[941] It hurts, and it's just that it angers you when you look at $1 .7 trillion of this stupidity floating around.

[942] And Christian and his father -in -law are now at odds.

[943] Think about that.

[944] Oh, yeah.

[945] Thanksgiving dinner does not.

[946] They're not going to be able to go to the holidays.

[947] Thanksgiving dinner tastes different.

[948] And when he buys a car, his father -in -law is going to say, He's going to look, give him a stink eye.

[949] You bought a car, but you didn't.

[950] You didn't take care of the loan I took out?

[951] What kind of a man are you?

[952] What kind of a terror you did?

[953] What do you mean?

[954] And then you're going to say, well, you ain't going to see your grandkids.

[955] You know?

[956] This is where this is going.

[957] I mean, it doesn't go well.

[958] This doesn't end.

[959] This story is not a pretty story.

[960] And bless his heart.

[961] He's writing on behalf of his wife.

[962] It's her parents.

[963] And let's say, Christian, we talked about this earlier.

[964] let's say your wife did shook she shook her parents hand said mom I just have to go to this college so bad and all they'll let me take out is a hundred grand if y 'all take out the other 60 I'll pay back when I get a job then you and your wife need to sit down and map out a plan to pay this and it's going to cost you your quote unquote following your passion it's going to cost you your right now dream y 'all got to go get a whole bunch of jobs and you're going to have to probably get roommates you're going to have to live a different kind of life than you thought because you all set this stuff up years ago.

[965] And unfortunately, the world let y 'all do this.

[966] Before the world let you buy alcohol, they let you borrow $150 ,000.

[967] Before the world let you get tattoos.

[968] You can't buy a firearm, but you can buy a gun or get a tattoo or buy cigarettes, but man, you can sign this paper right here.

[969] And unfortunately, that's the world you're in.

[970] Math doesn't care how you feel.

[971] Y 'all got to figure out a way to get this thing paid off.

[972] And just scratch and claw and get it done.

[973] Your relationship with your in -laws and tension in your family tree is not worth it it's just not yeah it's not if she said she would pay it if she didn't say that she would pay it then you've got a different kind of difficult conversation which is mom and dad she didn't make you a promise to pay this we're in no more of a position to pay it than you are I'm really sorry we can't take this on we love you but we can't take this on and maybe in five years if y 'all are success getting like having some success maybe you can start chipping in or something but right now you can't do it you can't but not as an obligation that's an active charity it's an active gift it's a gift it's a gift it's a gift it's not an obligation there's a different thing here and so but this all gets twisted up so parents stop it stop it look at your 18 year old you wuss and say no parents who are wusses are causing this look at grow up backbone run down on down to walmart you can buy one on all three get you a backbone and look at your little 17 year old and say no no it's a powerful word it'll set the next decade free this is the ramsie show live from the headquarters of ramsie solutions it's the ramsie show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships Our phone numbers, AAA 8255 -2 -2 -25, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, host of the Dr. John Deloney show, author of a couple of number one bestsellers.

[974] The latest is building a non -anxious life.

[975] He's my co -host today.

[976] Open phones, AAA -825 -2 -2 -25.

[977] Josh is in Huntsville.

[978] Hey, Josh, how are you?

[979] I'm doing great, Dave.

[980] How are you?

[981] Better than I deserve.

[982] What's up?

[983] I knew you're going to say that.

[984] John, how are you?

[985] I'm even better than that Well thank you so much for taking my call I really appreciate and love what you guys are doing To educate the population on so many levels I said thank you so much for that Thank you How can we help I'm kind of at a crossroads I'm 27 and I no longer have to work That's not exactly what you think But I'm out of crossroads Do I go back to school for free And get paid to do it do I enjoy this type of retirement or do I just get a passive job?

[986] I mean, where do I go with all this?

[987] That's a little bit vague.

[988] Sounds like you're out of the military.

[989] Yes, yes, sir.

[990] I served in the U .S. Army and life didn't go as expected.

[991] And I got a lot of injuries.

[992] So that passive income I talked about, that's what that comes from.

[993] So you got vet, you were 100 % disabled?

[994] sure yeah we'll say that okay so what's your income off the military uh so it's non -taxable it's 4 ,400 per month okay cool are you single now I'm lucky I'm married okay good what does she make uh her gross income is about 36 ,000 okay so I go ahead Dave at 86 ,000 dollars a year you don't have to work anymore is that what you're saying yeah pretty much okay all right um What are the natures, by the way, thank you for your service.

[995] And I'm sorry you were injured in the course of serving your country.

[996] We appreciate men.

[997] I do it again.

[998] We appreciate men and women like you.

[999] What's the nature of your disability, Josh?

[1000] It's a long list.

[1001] I got like over a thousand pages of documentation, but it's both physical, so mental.

[1002] You have a total hip replacement.

[1003] I'm only 27.

[1004] and knees, my back is all tore up.

[1005] So when it comes to employment, it's a desk job.

[1006] And I was a loan officer for a long time.

[1007] How's your emotional state?

[1008] It's ongoing.

[1009] It takes a lot of work to overcome some of the things you've experienced in see you in life.

[1010] I bet.

[1011] I'm better than it used to be.

[1012] I bet.

[1013] Well, good for you.

[1014] You still working on it?

[1015] I work on it every day, probably for the rest of my life.

[1016] Outstanding.

[1017] I like that attitude.

[1018] Good for you.

[1019] Okay.

[1020] Well, I think you're asking the wrong question.

[1021] man can i challenge you to ask a fourth question i love questions feel for it what do you want to do for the next 60 or 70 years of your life you know that's the darndest thing people i talk about retirement and they they wait for retirement to enjoy their lives sitting around the house has been cracked up you know i've cracked up as everyone says no it's so it's terrible it's terrible Yeah, man is designed, woman is designed to do things.

[1022] Couch potato is not a natural state.

[1023] Yeah, it's not a natural state.

[1024] So, yeah, John's on to something here.

[1025] So I think you start asking yourself, okay, chapter one was Josh was in the military, saw some stuff and got the hell beat out of him in the process.

[1026] chapter two is Josh takes the income and the free education uh from that chapter one experience and goes and becomes a hero in another area so let's what's chapter two that's what that's the question it's an encore you know like when they when the band does a really good job and the audience is standing and cheering so the band comes back out and the curtain comes back up after they've already played a great concert that's the encore right yeah that's you dude what's your encore and can i tell you my dream for you is when you turn 50 and you and your wife are celebrating your 25th anniversary that one of the lesser impressive things about you is your military service that's my challenge to you yeah that you went and changed everybody's life doing something else or you went and built this thing doing something else or you went and did and you're known inside your own head and inside your group of friends and people who see you from the outside looking in you're known as something other than what you're known for today you're a hero already you've already got that checkmark well done but now there's a whole other thing what's the encore so you've thought about it what do you want to do what do you've thought about what do you want to do you've thought about it oh easy you know I like business easy okay you like business a billion dollar company yeah I was a millionaire by the time I was 26 but all the property that I owned just about was uh lower income property that's a nice way of saying i was a slum lord that was my first chapter i was a millionaire by the time i was 26 that's pretty cool how can i top that yeah how can i top that well i did many times over a lot more rewarding being a slum lord i'll just tell you that so um not like you were a slum lord i'm not saying you that that's not you josh but i'm saying that you know how can you top being a millionaire by the time you're 26 it's tough you can do it you And the beautiful thing for you is you got a check coming in every month.

[1027] And so it doesn't...

[1028] And they'll pay for you to study to be whatever this next thing is.

[1029] That's right.

[1030] You can go get a degree in counseling.

[1031] You can get a degree in banking.

[1032] You can go be an engineer, architect.

[1033] All those are sit -down jobs.

[1034] And all of those in some shape, form or fashion can become work at when you want to work or how you want to work.

[1035] And that's just, I just for it.

[1036] I just read off top of my head.

[1037] You can be any number of things.

[1038] Yeah.

[1039] So here's what we're going to do.

[1040] We have a guy in the Ramsey Suite named...

[1041] Ken Coleman, that studies careers and studies people finding meaning in their work and teaches people how to do those things.

[1042] He's got a couple of bestsellers, and he's got a career assessment tool, and I'm going to give it to you for free to say thank you for serving your country, and I'm going to give you the book that goes with it, and I'm also going to send you his book from paycheck to purpose, which is what we've been preaching at you for the last few minutes, because We think you're impressive.

[1043] Thank you.

[1044] I really appreciate that.

[1045] Is that cool, brother?

[1046] Life comes very fast.

[1047] Tell me why you're choked up.

[1048] You mentioned finding a new purpose, topping my military career.

[1049] Sometimes I struggled with a lot.

[1050] You know, you lose friends before I was even 21.

[1051] Mm -hmm.

[1052] And you're like, what do I do with my life?

[1053] If I don't do something great, if I don't find happiness or purpose, I feel like I'm just wasting it compared to my friends.

[1054] Here's what you get to do.

[1055] You get to get up and tip the barista and have a hot cup of delicious coffee, and they don't get to do that.

[1056] You get to go for a walk.

[1057] It's going to be slow because you're hips and knees, but you get to go for a walk.

[1058] You get to see a sunset.

[1059] You get to live life and see beauty, and that's where you start.

[1060] And I do think, I mean, I'm with you.

[1061] I think you have an obligation.

[1062] You've got to live a life and a half now because those guys didn't get to.

[1063] I think you're right.

[1064] But it doesn't mean you have to go make a bigillion dollars or else you've wasted it.

[1065] It's not true.

[1066] every breath you take is the breath they don't get to take.

[1067] So keep going, man. Yeah.

[1068] The challenge, the definition of success here is intentionality.

[1069] That's right.

[1070] Be intentional.

[1071] And we're going to give you some tools and help you do that.

[1072] You call us back anytime you want, son.

[1073] We love you.

[1074] We appreciate you.

[1075] Hold on.

[1076] Christian's going to pick up and take care of you.

[1077] Dr. John Deloney -Ramsay personality is my co -host today.

[1078] Thank you for joining us, America.

[1079] Selling a house the Ramsey Way makes homeownership a blessing instead of a curse.

[1080] when you buy a home the wrong way it makes you broker that's why they call them brokers so i mean you need to buy a house in a way that causes you to you've never heard that john no god that's the oldest old man joke i've heard that's the best dad joke ever i've been using that for 30 years man that's why they call them brokers that's fantastic yeah seriously i mean when you brought when broke people buy a house it makes them broker That's what happens.

[1081] It's a problem.

[1082] We see it all the time.

[1083] And so getting yourself straightened around and then getting with a good real estate agent that knows what they're doing to help you find the right house and help you sell your home if you're trying to do that.

[1084] And in a weird market like this, this market's weird.

[1085] Interest rates are up.

[1086] People are buying houses and prices are going up.

[1087] It's weird.

[1088] And so it's not like the market went down.

[1089] It didn't.

[1090] We told you it wasn't going to, by the way.

[1091] So if you want to find the top agent in your area that we have vetted and that we trust to be this, and I've had my real estate license since 1978, and I trained the team that does the vetting here, because I don't want to put my name, Ramsey trusted, on these agents unless they actually know what the flip they're doing.

[1092] And here's an idea, if you're a real estate agent, you ought to sell a house occasionally.

[1093] Like, you know, your uncle who just got his dadgum license and he thinks she ought to list your largest asset?

[1094] I don't think so.

[1095] I think you ought to have like somebody that sold like 60 houses or 100 houses last year.

[1096] They're 200 houses knows what they're doing, right?

[1097] So Ramsey trusted agents are high octane, high protein.

[1098] They've been vetted by us.

[1099] We trust them.

[1100] That's why we send them to our friends.

[1101] You.

[1102] Ramsey trusted real estate agents.

[1103] You can find one for free at Ramsey Solutions.

[1104] dot com slash agent there are our endorsed local providers for your local city your local neighborhood olivia is with us in houston hi olivia how are you i'm doing good how are you guys better than we deserve what's up okay so um kind of a lot of my going on with my situation right now but um i might possibly be uh be becoming a kidney donor for a family member and And I guess I just need to know, like, does this put me in store mode?

[1105] Or how do I best prepare for this situation?

[1106] Wow.

[1107] Impressive act of generosity.

[1108] Yeah, tell us about the story.

[1109] What's going on?

[1110] So my aunt's been dealing with the kidney disease for a few years now, and one of her kidneys is completely non -functioning anymore, and the other one is about an 11, 12 % functionality.

[1111] So she's on the donor list, and none of, like, her daughter is not a blood type match, and her husband and her sister are, but because of other health conditions, they're not candidates.

[1112] And I don't know.

[1113] It's just been on my heart to try to find out if I'm a match.

[1114] Oh, you don't even know if you're a match.

[1115] So I just found out I am a blood match, but I still need to undergo all the other testing because it's pretty thorough testing.

[1116] You know, they want to make sure you don't have any other pre -existing conditions.

[1117] or mostly they want to make sure your blood pressure is good and that you're not diabetic, but there is like further testing.

[1118] I'm just waiting on them to call me back to get that set up, but I know that once I undergo that testing, things are going to move pretty fast because of the percentage that she's at.

[1119] So I'm just kind of wanting to make sure I have all my ducks in a row before.

[1120] So assuming the testing comes through, have you made the decision 100 % to do this?

[1121] I have, and you know, I just want to be able to make sure that I can get all my questions answered with the doctors, but I've pretty much made the decision that, yes, I want to move forward with this, you know, assuming everything is good to go.

[1122] Well, the second question then I would learn about, if I'm you, is what's the downtime associated with this?

[1123] And, um, okay, go ahead.

[1124] I was just going to say, it's a six week recovery and I've been doing kind of my reading and my research on it so far.

[1125] And this is one of the things I'd have to ask the team, the medical team, but I know it's a six -week recovery.

[1126] I don't know if I need to fully take that full -time off of work just because I sit down all day.

[1127] But, you know, I also don't know how that's going to go with my recovery.

[1128] So I'm expecting it to be the full six -week for sure.

[1129] Yeah.

[1130] Okay.

[1131] Is your aunt and uncle in a position to help out with some of your bills while you're pulled off?

[1132] I'm not sure.

[1133] Well, that would mean no. Well, I'm not sure because I know that for sure as far as the actual procedure goes.

[1134] her insurance pays for everything i don't come we're talking about your lost income yeah do they they have money to give you so i'm i am married and my husband you know has his income so i think with his income alone we're good i mean his income essentially pays for all the bills what is his income on the low end it's like 45 right now but it can be a little over 6 000 a month you've said the words i think i think I think several times.

[1135] Here's what is going to be important for you.

[1136] I want you to know.

[1137] I want you and your husband to do a budget that's realistic.

[1138] Oh, no, I'm sorry.

[1139] I have it.

[1140] It's just on my phone.

[1141] No, I know, I know.

[1142] I just want you to be able to rest.

[1143] This is a big decision you're making, and it's one that's very noble and it's incredible.

[1144] I mean, it's incredible and it's incredibly generous, but you're going into this, well, you kind of, you know, like you and your uncle and your aunt need to sit around a table.

[1145] You all need to look at each other in the eye, and so I'm about to do this thing.

[1146] and not just have a doctor communicate between you or whatever like you'll need to sit down and be adults and sit down and have this hard conversation I'm about to make this sacrifice for you and I'm grateful and I want you to be okay and if there's going to be a budget shortfall in your house it's not it's not contingent but if you need that and you think they can help out and they just don't even know then I don't have any moral problem with saying this is going to cost us this much for me to do this and my rent is this see what I'm saying but I just want to you to have those numbers.

[1147] I want you to be firm on those numbers and not think, like, I think we're going to be okay and I think they don't have it.

[1148] And I think that there's a lot of I thinks.

[1149] And I want you just to be concrete going into this thing because there's going to be a lot of variables regardless of what happens.

[1150] And so I want you to shore up all the variables that are just hanging out there.

[1151] And the answer to your question is, yes, I would push pause on your total money makeover baby steps and pile up cash starting today.

[1152] Until you know what's going to happen here.

[1153] And as soon as you know what's going to happen, if you're going to, if you are going to be a donor, and you do have a six -week downtime, then, you know, when you come back from that, you push play again.

[1154] Okay.

[1155] Yeah, much because you're going into a storm.

[1156] The good news is you've had a good forecast, and so you can detail out the forecast and know exactly what the storm's going to look like or as close to exact as we can possibly do with a medical procedure.

[1157] But we know, okay, we're going to have four weeks of discomfort and two weeks at work that is uncomfortable.

[1158] of my six week recovery or it's three and three or it's sixth period don't go back to work or it's i don't know you need to get that nailed down and then you get need to get nailed down what your budget looks like and then you pile and you stack cash because you have a very defined storm that you're walking into of your own choosing and then when you come out the other side of it you just take that cash and push play and start you know start back on your get out of debt or whatever baby step your own mode get back and moving again on that and that's exactly how you do it so um you're you're an incredible young lady that's that's pretty cool i've known a handful of folks that did this um uh and um i think the most unusual one i met was a pastor i was speaking at his church and um he in his prayer time um had a name pop into his head And he ended up meeting the guy and donated his kidney to a perfect stranger.

[1159] Wow.

[1160] This name popped into his head.

[1161] And it was about two years later.

[1162] But he journaled it all out.

[1163] He had it all written down.

[1164] And he was just nonplussed about it.

[1165] He was just, matter of fact, it's like, well, that's what you do.

[1166] Wow.

[1167] It was like, yeah, yeah, it's not, yeah.

[1168] I try to give James to, like, give us high fives.

[1169] He wouldn't even give us that.

[1170] Much less the kid.

[1171] Not a kidney, yeah.

[1172] This is the Ramsey show.

[1173] That's awful.

[1174] Thanks for joining us, America.

[1175] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality is my co -host.

[1176] You're welcome to drop by and visit with us in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions.

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[1184] In the middle of that lobby is the debt -free stage, and J -C.

[1185] is on the debt -free stage.

[1186] Hi, J