Finneas

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert, experts on expert.

[1] I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Monica Monsoon.

[2] Hi.

[3] Hello.

[4] This long -awaited Easter egg, people were growing impatient and I understand why.

[5] Yeah, we dropped this egg a while back.

[6] We did.

[7] Recklessly.

[8] It was a golden egg.

[9] Yeah, sure was.

[10] Phineas.

[11] Finiis is an Academy and Grammy Award -winning singer, songwriter, and composer.

[12] His solo albums include Optimist, Blood Harmony.

[13] He's written and produced, you know, what was I made for?

[14] No Time to Die.

[15] When we all fall asleep, where do we go?

[16] Happier than ever.

[17] He's such a beast.

[18] And I'm so excited about this.

[19] He has scored a new Apple TV series that comes out this year called Disclaimer.

[20] And so now he's scoring things.

[21] Yeah, he's done a few things.

[22] He's a phenom.

[23] I know.

[24] He is a prodigy.

[25] He also, I'm going to put him in almost the Kimmel category where a lot of good boys.

[26] Vibes and sexy guy and cool guy.

[27] Oh, all the categories.

[28] Yeah, right.

[29] He kind of delivered on all the categories.

[30] I can see that.

[31] I feel like a lot of people have the opinion of him just based on what they see on TV, that he's just a very...

[32] You might think even shy.

[33] Exactly.

[34] Shy, super sweet.

[35] And he's not.

[36] He has a fun personality.

[37] Big time.

[38] A rascal even, I'd say.

[39] And a little bit of a contrarian.

[40] he says himself.

[41] So it's a fun.

[42] Yeah, it was a big, big fun pop out the whole way.

[43] And now I adore him.

[44] Please enjoy Phineas.

[45] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[46] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[47] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[48] Oh, you've been seeing each other?

[49] Yeah.

[50] Yeah, well, Phineas has seen me with my headphones in.

[51] He lives in the hood.

[52] Well, I know, but do I know that you guys are seeing each other at walk?

[53] Well, I have two dogs, so I walk relentlessly, as you do.

[54] You're a better dog owner than I. I have two dogs that I have not walked at all.

[55] Over the last two years have been like, I think that's Monica, occasionally.

[56] But also, not to be, not to be accusatory.

[57] You're probably listening to early edits.

[58] That's right.

[59] I never see you sort of, like, lax a days ago.

[60] I don't.

[61] I walk with a mission.

[62] I see you really focused.

[63] It's never been a good time to say, love the show.

[64] Well, I would have loved to have heard that.

[65] But you're right.

[66] I would have been like...

[67] But first, you would have been like, excuse me?

[68] You know what I mean?

[69] Pretty accurate.

[70] Well, because they could be saying a car is coming.

[71] Like, you have to react quickly.

[72] You do have to kind of be fast with it.

[73] Yes.

[74] You got to be fast.

[75] It's true.

[76] There's so much here, though.

[77] Also, you know, Monica, yes, she likely was editing her preoccupied.

[78] But also, she enters the street is, is like, it's an apocalypse.

[79] People are going to attack her.

[80] Like, she's definitely.

[81] in a zone when she's out on the streets.

[82] Is that fair?

[83] That's fair.

[84] My best friend, Happy birthday, Callie.

[85] It's her birthday today.

[86] Thank you.

[87] My best friend said, he was talking to Roth.

[88] I thought you're being funny about Kelly's birthday.

[89] She said, I walk like I'm on a mission.

[90] In high school, I would do that.

[91] Oh, they're so good.

[92] I'm going to wait until we're deep in this interview when my intermittent fast is broken.

[93] You have an alarm that goes off on your phone?

[94] No, but I'll think.

[95] feel it.

[96] I'll know when noon is.

[97] Yeah.

[98] You do it?

[99] Pavlovian.

[100] I've been doing it on and off.

[101] I'm a fan of it for two reasons.

[102] One is who likes to fall asleep feeling too full.

[103] Sure.

[104] And then the other one is just in any version of dieting at all.

[105] I like the restricted hours, but I feel like I can eat whatever I want in the hours.

[106] Yeah, it's not the food you're taking away.

[107] Yeah.

[108] The hardest form of trying to control what I eat has been like eating less cheese -its than I want to.

[109] I love cheese.

[110] They're really good.

[111] That's your food too?

[112] Like, do I love cheese?

[113] Yeah.

[114] I do love cheese.

[115] You love them.

[116] They're so good.

[117] You love Cheez -It.

[118] We all love Cheez -Ey.

[119] Well, I have come to Cheez -It's by way of you.

[120] They were not for me. I didn't realize that.

[121] In fact, they were what my stepfather liked, so they got filed into, that's what Barton loves.

[122] Oh, man food a little bit.

[123] Maybe a little bit.

[124] My last stepdad, who I absolutely adored, the final boss.

[125] The final boss, and why I liked him as he was never much of a boss.

[126] And you're too young for this, but he had Mr. Belvedere vibes.

[127] Do you remember Mr. Belvedere?

[128] What's Mr. Belvedere from?

[129] It was a show.

[130] about a butler, Mr. Belvedere, and he was very proper, and he wore sweater vests, and he was nice.

[131] I think now it's like a vodka.

[132] What?

[133] I think Belvedere is a beautiful brand of vodka.

[134] But back then, you just stood for kind of old -fashioned butler class.

[135] So the fact that he ate cheesets for me, it just, it wasn't sexy enough.

[136] Yeah, the idea that you'd associate that with some authority figure.

[137] What do they represent for you, fun?

[138] Like, these are so fun.

[139] square.

[140] There's millions of them in this bag.

[141] I think they're like any form of snack where it's the tub.

[142] It's like pretzels or something.

[143] Anything that you're sticking your hand down into like a claw machine at an arcade, bad sign.

[144] Monica, I don't want to speak for you, but you have a specific association that's airport for you.

[145] Yeah, that's my airport snack of choice.

[146] So as soon as I get in there, I need the big bag.

[147] Mine for a long time was talkies, you know those, the spicy things.

[148] Oh.

[149] Tockeys are Dorito adjacent.

[150] They're like a rolled chip.

[151] And they're Super spicy.

[152] And just sometimes people wear them on their feet.

[153] That's bugles.

[154] That's bugles.

[155] But I do know what you're speaking of.

[156] And that the cylindrical shape of them adds even more crunch.

[157] It's really violently crunchy.

[158] And it became a whole debacle in Billy and my touring life because we were public -facing appreciators of tockis, which meant that by the 15th show, they were like being thrown at us on stage.

[159] Oh, really?

[160] Yeah.

[161] So we definitely crossed over the bell curve of appreciating them to being like, no, no, no, no, this has to stop.

[162] And now when I'm at an airport, I'm like, oh, I'll get a bag of that.

[163] There was a period where they were sort of fallen out of my jacket pockets and being hit in the face with them and stuff.

[164] You felt like it had jumped the shock.

[165] Just like anything that you suddenly go from, this is a little delicacy that I appreciate to like always being inundated with them.

[166] What a bizarre lesson to learn real time is that, well, we got to be careful how much we express our love for something because they'll eventually get thrown at us on stage.

[167] Thank God you weren't into throwing stars or something dangerous.

[168] Something that would kill me. Yeah.

[169] I've always, because I'm a junkie, so I've thought there were certain performers, generally stand -ups, who knowingly would be like, bring drugs to my show.

[170] And people would throw free drugs on stage.

[171] And I thought that was such a great idea.

[172] Yeah.

[173] You thought it was so generous.

[174] Well, it was a generous of the participants.

[175] But also, what a great hack.

[176] You're in another town.

[177] You don't want to travel drugs.

[178] I feel like you're talking about a pre -fentional period of time.

[179] Exactly.

[180] I am.

[181] That sounds terrifying.

[182] You're right.

[183] Don't do this, kids.

[184] If you're a very popular stand -up, the three people that are out there listening, Theo Vaughn, don't ask anyone to do this.

[185] I'm not friends with stand -ups like you are, but when I go to Friends' concerts and I go to their green room to say, like, great show, there's usually some consumed bottle of alcohol.

[186] Of course.

[187] That I have a feeling of like, oh, my God, are you hitting that every night?

[188] That kind of blows me away.

[189] And maybe it's a whole band, and maybe it's a whole crew backstage, and they're all having it.

[190] But sometimes I'm like, I don't see a lot of people back here, man. That's a very empty bottle.

[191] of alcohol for two people.

[192] When you two are, what is your kind of habitual pattern?

[193] And what's on a rider?

[194] I have a super monastic, boring rider because of exactly what we're talking about, because of, like, when we first started, my rider was, like, Oreos.

[195] Great pick.

[196] A case of Oreos a day.

[197] Milk, too?

[198] Yeah, sometimes milk.

[199] Or would you just, like, hitting them out of the kids?

[200] But anyway, again, it was kind of an exposure thing of, like, ooh, I shouldn't have this always at arm's length every day.

[201] So my rider is like apples and a can of cold black coffee and stuff.

[202] It's very tame.

[203] I wasn't a famous musician, but I do weirdly relate to this on a deep level, which is when I graduated high school, I kind of went working full time with my mother doing car shows for General Motors.

[204] And you had a per diem.

[205] And I coveted fast food so much growing up.

[206] I love fast food, too.

[207] And it never occurred to me that if I had endless fast food, my body would change rapidly.

[208] And I graduated at 185.

[209] And after just one year of doing car shows, I'll never forget.

[210] I was in Lake Lanier, Georgia.

[211] And I just caught a glance to myself, and I said, you're becoming a very big boy.

[212] And I stepped on a scale, and I was 2 .17.

[213] So I had gained 32 pounds with this per diem just absent -mindedly.

[214] Yes, yes, mystery weight.

[215] Yes.

[216] And it's a lucky position to be in life where you actually have excess.

[217] It's true, or, yeah, what's around.

[218] We're talking about the same thing, basically, which is that adulthood and independence was coinciding with this other unhealthy thing.

[219] Living at my parents' house, my mom's a healthy person.

[220] and had healthy shit around.

[221] Even I remember turning 18, and I was dating a girl that was going to college, and she was home for the summer, and I would go over to her parents' house where she was staying, and we'd hang out late in the evening.

[222] But it wasn't kosher to spend the night, so I'd leave.

[223] And there was a Taco Bell blocks away.

[224] And I hit that Taco Bell almost every night for, like, funny.

[225] No, they were fucking, he just wasn't sleeping over.

[226] Oh, you're right, you're right.

[227] What am I thinking?

[228] She was in college.

[229] He was 18.

[230] I did a Taco Bell, like every.

[231] These were post -coidal tacos.

[232] Sure, yes.

[233] There's nothing tastes.

[234] It's the air than a post -coital.

[235] It's better than the cigarette, though.

[236] Yeah.

[237] But I have a very vivid memory of after a summer of The Bell, being at a restaurant for my birthday, which is at the end of July, going to wash my hands in the bathroom, looking in the mirror and being like, who's that?

[238] I just, I look so different.

[239] It was shocking to me. I've been saying that for the last two years, that I've been eating like it's for a roll.

[240] Yes, yes.

[241] I have not.

[242] I feel very saved by that I did have to be on camera all through my 30s, and I couldn't just go crazy.

[243] My vanity has probably added 20 years to my life.

[244] And you enjoy it.

[245] Mentally, nothing makes me feel better.

[246] Like Arnold.

[247] It's better than coming.

[248] It's like, you're walking around all day, coming.

[249] You leave the gym and you come in.

[250] Can you imagine for me how much I'm in heaven?

[251] Wow, dueling Arnold.

[252] And I'm glad you've seen that clip.

[253] That's unbelievable.

[254] He's just so delighted.

[255] He's like, the pump is better than coming, and then I'm home and I'm coming.

[256] He's delighted.

[257] He's so happy about it.

[258] And he was doing two a days, yeah.

[259] So he had the pump twice a day.

[260] How much for me I am in heaven really killed.

[261] You imagine how much for me I am in heaven?

[262] He's pretty great.

[263] It's wonderful.

[264] I don't know if I've ever met anyone that's well -versed in Arnold quotes.

[265] That's a surprise, and I like it.

[266] Oh, I know.

[267] This is not about you.

[268] I apologize.

[269] But we were just in South By, and I was moderating a panel for Roadhouse.

[270] It's all young actors.

[271] They're dudes.

[272] They all got in great shape.

[273] And then we saw him the next day at the hotel.

[274] And one of the guys grabbed my shoulder, and he's like, what are you training for?

[275] That's sweet.

[276] What a huge compliment.

[277] It is.

[278] But I also felt very silly because I used to be able to say, oh, I'm doing a movie.

[279] And I was like, I don't know.

[280] I don't know what I'm training.

[281] I don't know what it's about.

[282] But he started crying.

[283] I'm like, I just.

[284] A hernia.

[285] Just training to get a hernia.

[286] Yes.

[287] First of all, I listened to the Jake episode of Armchair when he was like shooting that.

[288] And I was sort of that stuff that Jake was at a year ago when he was finishing shooting that.

[289] So remember they shot for a while.

[290] He got COVID or something and it paused for two and a half months.

[291] So I was like, dude.

[292] you just had to stay like zero percent body fat for three months while you're on hiatus.

[293] Right.

[294] He's like, yeah, it sucks, you know.

[295] He looked unbelievable.

[296] He had the greatest looking body on a man I'd almost ever seen.

[297] And there's like videos of him at USC and stuff.

[298] Yes.

[299] Wait till you see this film.

[300] He's got the most glorious body.

[301] And are you like me in that I am far more interested in men's bodies than women's bodies, even though I'm heterosexual?

[302] Like, you and I both have a mental image of what Jake's body.

[303] looks like right now.

[304] But I don't think you and I have one of a female actress right now.

[305] Let's pretend, sure.

[306] Yeah.

[307] I can't say, I can't say with full transparency that I have much more interest in men's bodies.

[308] I am an appreciator and I'm fascinated by the whole thing.

[309] And I work out and I rock climb and stuff.

[310] So there's interest in that for sure.

[311] Yes, but you and I aren't going to miss a male actor who gets in great shape.

[312] 100%.

[313] Very interesting to me. Me too.

[314] It's so silly.

[315] I've been in a relationship for five years.

[316] My partner, Claudia, who's an actress also, like you and I are talking about Jake.

[317] We have that about actors and actresses alike, or just maybe people, but we were at a party the other night, and Claudia was like, Jennifer Lawrence looks un -fucking believable, right?

[318] And we have that kind of same version of like, wow, look at that person.

[319] We should all watch a movie together because all person I talk about is like, my goodness, look at the traps on so -and -so.

[320] Look at this, look at that.

[321] It's so worth appreciating.

[322] I know.

[323] I think someone could maybe deduce there's some kind of shallowness to that.

[324] I'm inclined to think it's more like evolutionary.

[325] There's something primitive about it that I can't resist.

[326] Yeah, I think it's just interesting.

[327] Also, most people are not particularly predisposed to it.

[328] So it's displaying a kind of like, wow, they really like went for that.

[329] Like when Kumail suddenly was Adonis.

[330] I won't forget that like I don't forget the space shuttle blowing up.

[331] That is an important marker of my life.

[332] I'm picturing you with Chris in the other room with Kumil coming out on the TV and you being like, babe, Come on get in here yeah it's so silly yeah but five years is a very long time to be with someone when you're 27 yeah we got together when I was 21 and she was 22 how did you meet we met on a dating app oh you did that's the sort of a bridged version and then the to her the validation was that I knew mutual friends of hers and then once we'd matched she was like isn't this the guy you keep talking about I think that that validated me in a way that if I'd just been sending her a message she would have been like ah I don't know who this is and how long had you been on that dating app and how frequent were your dates very briefly because i miss this whole phase of life and i'm a little envious i'm very pro dating at what could be better than two people being like hot and pressing a button yeah and then talking under the auspice of like we should go kiss maybe like i think that's awesome it really is yeah i think a lot of energy and time is we should go kiss right i'm glad you missed it yeah i would have never come out yeah i would have never come out for sure yeah i wouldn't i shouldn't be i wouldn't be trusted like i think you would have been like me i I think, again, I was on it and met people and had fun experiences and then fell in love with Claudia.

[333] Full disclosure, I did have that kind of similar thing.

[334] MySpace was a thing.

[335] And that's about as close as I could get to.

[336] Yeah, it's like strangers interacting and then getting together to kiss.

[337] And then one of them got a really good taste in movies and books.

[338] And next thing you know, I'm kind of dating them.

[339] I am habitual monogamous.

[340] I can't stay out of a relationship, truth but told.

[341] Yeah.

[342] Had you had a long one prior to this five year?

[343] I hadn't had really long ones.

[344] The college girl.

[345] How long was that?

[346] It was like a year.

[347] That's pretty good.

[348] Yeah.

[349] Do you think we could go out and on a limb and say that it maybe is somewhat related to our relationships with our moms?

[350] I definitely, like, have a really great relationship with my mom and a really great relationship with my dad.

[351] For me, this is a weird way to put it.

[352] I'm a real problem solver to a sort of debilitating degree sometimes.

[353] Everything's a problem.

[354] Not everything's a problem, but if there is a problem, I'm going to try to work through it.

[355] And I think sometimes I'd have friends who seemed like they were having a really good thing with a partner.

[356] And I'd be like, what happened to that thing?

[357] And they were like, oh, it just didn't work out.

[358] And I'd be like, what happened?

[359] And they'd explain something to me and I'd be like, well, that seems like very surface level.

[360] That was solvable.

[361] Could have had a little conversation where you said, hey, that made me uncomfortable.

[362] When you said that to me, it made me feel small.

[363] I just communicate a lot.

[364] But do you think maybe implicit in there is that you and I both had mothers that if I did go go bring my feelings to her, she A took them seriously.

[365] She listened.

[366] She didn't deny me like, because I said so.

[367] She treated me as a peer and with respect.

[368] Did you go over to friends' houses as a kid?

[369] say, can we do this?

[370] Can we have a sleepover?

[371] And they'd say, no, you say, why?

[372] And they'd say, because I said so.

[373] That blew my mind.

[374] Oh, couldn't leave it.

[375] Yeah.

[376] Well, interestingly, now I am going to betray our bond.

[377] My mom begging was not on the table.

[378] That was like a rule in the house.

[379] So I would go, like, can Trevor spend the night?

[380] And she'd go, no, and I'd be on the phone and Trevor.

[381] She said no. Well, ask her again.

[382] And I'd make, no, it doesn't work.

[383] Beg her.

[384] I go, no, no, it doesn't work.

[385] She's just going to get mad.

[386] If she says, no, that was for real, no. For me, and it was, this is a really good lesson in psychology.

[387] I would go, Hey, can me and Cameron have a sleepover tonight?

[388] My mom will go, well, he's got soccer practice in the morning, and what's fun about a sleepover, if not waking up and watching a little cartoon and eating breakfast together?

[389] You have to worry about going to bed too early tonight because he's got his soccer practice.

[390] He's got to wake up for it.

[391] By this time, I'm so bored of this answer.

[392] I've completely tapped out.

[393] And it's morning.

[394] And I'm like, never mind.

[395] You win.

[396] And I think that that's a really great example of people, no matter how young, are usually not fully immune to, like, reason and justification.

[397] So if you give it to him, they'll just sort of go like, oh, yeah.

[398] Even if they kind of throw a tantrum about it, it's like a little inarguable.

[399] Well, that's the policy we have at the house, which is best argument wins.

[400] And it can be from them and often is.

[401] They'll say something and I'll go, whew, that was a great counter.

[402] You got this one.

[403] Yeah, sometimes I would be like, it's so important to me to continue this hang that we will promise to go to bed on time and wake up early as long as we can watch Incredibles right now.

[404] I can't wait to tell my kid, sorry, I decided this.

[405] And that's that.

[406] And I'm the mom.

[407] We were just talking about this.

[408] And that's the end of this conversation.

[409] Go to bed.

[410] Go back to bed.

[411] Shut them in their room.

[412] I can't wait to do that.

[413] Why is that how your childhood went?

[414] What's going on?

[415] No, I got away with murder.

[416] How did you get away with stuff?

[417] You're the oldest.

[418] That's the one that they're careful with.

[419] But I was good.

[420] I was good in school.

[421] I did everything I needed to do outwardly.

[422] So in the house, if I was shitty, which I was, they were like, I guess we prefer that she's a good student.

[423] performing.

[424] Yeah, performing for us.

[425] So sure, she can run wild.

[426] But we were just talking about this.

[427] Yes, I have zero problems with authority.

[428] I have no problem with someone telling me. I'm in charge.

[429] Give the literal example.

[430] We're just on an airplane coming home from Texas.

[431] And the shades were down.

[432] And they said, got to have the shades down to keep the airplane cool.

[433] But we had been on a flight a week before where they're like, got to have the shades up.

[434] It's FAA.

[435] We got to be able to see shit.

[436] And I'm like, see, this is what I hate.

[437] It's so fucking arbitrary.

[438] There's not really a rule.

[439] They're switching it on me. And she's like, I don't care about that.

[440] Yeah, sure.

[441] The airline thing, actually, I will confess, I don't take it out on anybody.

[442] But I get angry in a way that I don't get angry anywhere else because I fly all the fucking time and every person that works for any airline or any security or any gate screams at me like, what are you stupid?

[443] This is the way it is everywhere.

[444] And I'm like, I was on a flight yesterday morning and it wasn't this way.

[445] And I've had this thing in my bag that you're telling me I'm not allowed to have my bag for 400 flights.

[446] That drives me out of my mind.

[447] It's the arbitrariness of it that I don't know why I can't get old.

[448] I'm always like, just because you work in an airport, it doesn't mean I'm not on more flights than you.

[449] It's a good point.

[450] But think about who they have to deal with.

[451] Oh, I literally, my actual conversation is like, it's not your fault, man. I know you're just doing your job.

[452] I never ever am arguing.

[453] I just didn't bawling my fists up privately.

[454] What kind of little boy were you?

[455] You had sleepovers.

[456] That's encouraging.

[457] Only at my house.

[458] I had really bad separation anxiety.

[459] Did you?

[460] I was never sleeping over anywhere else.

[461] No. I would think I could do it and the sun would go down and I'd be like, I'm really doing it.

[462] And then at one in the morning, I'd be like, Mom.

[463] You would call me. Oh, sweet.

[464] Would you be embarrassed?

[465] Yeah, for sure.

[466] I would like other myself in ways like that as a child, like with separation anxiety.

[467] That's how it felt to me. This makes me different than everybody else.

[468] Which you liked or didn't like?

[469] I did not like.

[470] Yeah, I was very embarrassed.

[471] I really wanted to just be like everybody else.

[472] I was even for a time as a young person, very self -conscious, to be named Phineas because nobody was named Phineas and it wasn't on a keychain at the Jurassic Park ride.

[473] I wanted to be named Jack.

[474] There's a weird invisibility thing as a child of I just want to be camouflaged to all these other people my age.

[475] You don't want anyone to have any reason.

[476] Yeah, and kids are so unfiltered and entertainingly so, but kids will be like, that's a weird name.

[477] Why are you so afraid of the sleepover?

[478] Why do you have separation anxiety?

[479] Yeah, why are you a nerd?

[480] Just weird little things like, I'm left -handed.

[481] Or you feel like stupidly ostracized.

[482] Even in LA, I'm kind of surprised.

[483] It's just collective.

[484] Like, nobody's doing it.

[485] It's just that your two best friends aren't.

[486] As a child, I don't know if either of you related to this.

[487] I just wanted braces.

[488] My friends had braces and I was like, I want to have braces like my friend.

[489] I just want to be like everybody.

[490] Yeah, I kind of wanted glasses.

[491] I wanted glasses too.

[492] Yeah, I was running around with good teeth and 2020 vision, just devastated.

[493] Talk about grass is always green.

[494] That's like all these cute white girls had short legs and I had long legs at the time.

[495] And I went home and I told my mom, I just really want short legs.

[496] And she was like, what are you talking about?

[497] Everyone wants long legs.

[498] And that was the end of that conversation.

[499] But it's that.

[500] It's like you just want to blend.

[501] Glasses to me is like, A, you've got space work.

[502] Like, you've always got something to do.

[503] And then you're also hiding a bit.

[504] You're behind something.

[505] That's appealing.

[506] And you get to pick what they look like.

[507] Immediate customization.

[508] Personality out loud.

[509] You get to wear different ones and you feel differently that day.

[510] It's pretty awesome.

[511] Yeah.

[512] I actually do have a bad eye now.

[513] I just have a stigmatism in my eye.

[514] So I have some glasses.

[515] And it really scratches an inch.

[516] I really like it.

[517] Yeah, I got them too.

[518] Because I'm old.

[519] My near -sightedness has gone.

[520] Oh, you have like a little shade on them, too.

[521] I don't like the shade.

[522] This was regrettable, but I have the exact same pair upstairs in my bedroom without the shade, and I really, really like him.

[523] Those are cool.

[524] You look like Robert Dunny Jr. now.

[525] Oh, my God.

[526] Phineas, thank you.

[527] Oh, that was wonderful.

[528] What part of L .A. did you grow up in?

[529] I grew up in Highland Park, which I loved.

[530] It's wonderful.

[531] It's changed so much since you were a kid there, right?

[532] We definitely only lived there because we couldn't afford to live anywhere else.

[533] I didn't ever feel like I could walk around as like a young child.

[534] There were a ton of gangs there.

[535] We really heard gunfire right outside our house a couple times.

[536] But I was there the other day, and I was like, oh, my God, Silver Lake just bled through this neighborhood.

[537] There's like retro bowling alleys and farm -to -table restaurants.

[538] And, like, La Lobo.

[539] You know what I mean?

[540] It really got super gentrified.

[541] Did you ever fantasize about living somewhere other than L .A.?

[542] Because I'm always confused because everyone else in the rest of the country, we're all watching TV.

[543] And we're like, well, we got to get there.

[544] That's where everything's happening.

[545] I think when you grow up here, especially growing up on the east side, The kids I knew lived in Pasadena, Burbank, and Eagle Rock.

[546] I didn't feel like I was walking around Hollywood Boulevard.

[547] And I still don't.

[548] I grew up in, like, neighborhoods where we rode bikes and stuff.

[549] I really loved it.

[550] We started touring when I turned 18.

[551] I've really enjoyed going to places, and I've subsequently found places like Australia where I've been like, I love it here.

[552] I could totally spend five years here.

[553] Is it Melbourne you love?

[554] Melbourne's amazing.

[555] Young people I know are all going to Melbourne.

[556] It's Brooklyn of Australia.

[557] The neighborhoods outside of Sydney are amazing.

[558] There's a city called Brisbane.

[559] They call it Bris Vegas, which is a real Australian tell from a bunch of people who've never been to Las Vegas because it's way better than Las Vegas.

[560] Oh, it is.

[561] It's super fun.

[562] It's gambling, though?

[563] There is probably a portion of that.

[564] I've never done it there.

[565] But it's just kind of a nightlife place.

[566] Anyway, the Australian listeners are going to be like, what the fuck is he talking about?

[567] But I've really loved being there.

[568] Do you fantasize about getting a second house somewhere?

[569] I had a place on the beach for a while in L .A. That's here, obviously.

[570] But that was a weird sort of impulse by.

[571] Yes.

[572] Classic paradigm.

[573] It was COVID.

[574] Okay.

[575] And the beach was suddenly illegal.

[576] And I was like, well, I could just buy a place on the beach and then go to the beach, which is pretty crazy.

[577] Oh, you don't like authority.

[578] I can feel it.

[579] Yeah, it's coming out.

[580] I wore a mask.

[581] You followed the rules.

[582] He wore a mask in his car.

[583] Forgetting Monica that my disdain for following rules is met only with my fear of everything.

[584] Okay.

[585] My separation of anxiety.

[586] That's right.

[587] It's a good combo.

[588] Fobias.

[589] You're kind of authorizing yourself.

[590] That's true.

[591] I'm very restricted by my own design.

[592] Anyway, the reason I bring this beach house up as a debacle is, I don't even really like the beach.

[593] Yeah, it's terrible, especially the California beach.

[594] Yeah, I just sort of thought I would suddenly become a very different person than I am.

[595] I was like, I'm going to walk around barefoot and gaze meditatively at the ocean.

[596] And that's never a thing I've wanted to do ever.

[597] Yeah, work out with Laird Hamilton in his pool, maybe.

[598] Yes, he's kind of ubiquitous up there.

[599] I never met him, but a bunch of my friends were like, we're going to go kick it with Laird.

[600] Yeah, we're going to work out in his pool.

[601] Down at the bottom with the weights?

[602] Yes.

[603] I saw like a thing online the other day of a beautiful window overlooking Lake Como or something.

[604] And somebody commented, I would love to look at my phone there.

[605] Which is very much like my unfortunate brand.

[606] I'm so much older than you, so I have much more experience with this, but it sounds like you've already dipped your toe in the water, which is I'm very romantic.

[607] I live in fantasy, so I've done things.

[608] And then I get there and I go, oh, yeah, it's just still real life.

[609] I'm still me here.

[610] How about that?

[611] Exactly.

[612] Wherever you go, there you are.

[613] Brought myself here.

[614] That's right.

[615] I was hoping to leave him behind, but here he is.

[616] I sold the Beach House.

[617] Well, I was going to ask pretty quickly.

[618] How long did this last?

[619] I had it for under two years.

[620] I'm a little bit of like a doomsday prepper.

[621] So I had a kind of like, this is going to be washed away.

[622] That's my whole thought about Malibu.

[623] I sort of had a feeling of like, I have to sell this to somebody before in the next 10 years.

[624] There's going to be some point where everybody goes.

[625] We can't buy this.

[626] And also people find it so relaxing to be on that one.

[627] water.

[628] And I'm like, that churning mass of water is just eating the shore.

[629] I was on a wet, dry beach, which is tide comes in and you have no beach.

[630] Tide goes out.

[631] You have a beach.

[632] Our staircase would just get exploded.

[633] The waves would just go like, blow it up and the windows would get destroyed.

[634] It's under attack.

[635] Yes.

[636] It's like always having construction done.

[637] It was a dumb idea of mine.

[638] Okay, so what were your hobbies before at 12 you go with mom to a songwriting class?

[639] I really love drawing.

[640] I'm going to stop.

[641] You're a sweet boy.

[642] I like you so much.

[643] You also read so much older than you are.

[644] It's crazy.

[645] Well, you've just been around for a long time, I think that's why.

[646] But I feel like we're peers and we're not.

[647] I'm 22 years older.

[648] 22 years.

[649] If we were dating, people would be talking about it.

[650] Well, that's true.

[651] They'd be talking about our fecese, man. I hope.

[652] We get on that Malibu Beach at your house.

[653] Pause the footage and they'd go, look at those traps on those guys.

[654] These guys are really going for it.

[655] A couple guys would be having that conversation.

[656] Look at this.

[657] Who's spotting?

[658] Who's lifting?

[659] Wait, we should talk real quick, before we get too much further in, your mom taught at the groundlings.

[660] At the groundlings.

[661] I sadly never had her as a teacher.

[662] Missed by whatever amount of years.

[663] Our friend Jess was in your mom's class.

[664] Melissa McCarthy.

[665] Yeah, that was so funny at the, was it, Sags?

[666] She was like, I already met you in utero.

[667] Isn't that cute?

[668] My little sidebar about Melissa McCarthy, because I just was talking to her the other night, she's a big, successful actress and is a movie star, and our mom did not be.

[669] become a movie star, but we would see her in like skits up.

[670] Groundings.

[671] I always had like a weird empathy crisis as a kid watching our mom play a pathetic character.

[672] Does that make sense at all?

[673] Yeah, it would hurt your feelings.

[674] Watching my mom play a buffoon and be made fun of by the other characters in the skit.

[675] And I said to Melissa the other night, I was like, were your kids cool with Billy drawing all over your face the other night?

[676] Just out of a kind of curiosity because her kids are very young.

[677] And I was like, I think I might have felt super weird about that.

[678] It's really funny.

[679] But Billy, like, grabs her by the face, draws all of her face.

[680] Oh, wow.

[681] She signs her name.

[682] Melissa says, can you sign my dress?

[683] And Billy says, no, I don't want to ruin the dress.

[684] She goes, can you sign my face?

[685] They go, sure.

[686] And signs all over her face.

[687] It's very funny.

[688] And Melissa kills.

[689] That was that side?

[690] Yes.

[691] Okay.

[692] But I only brought it up because I was like, do your kids care when Ariel kills you?

[693] Right.

[694] Like the little mermaid?

[695] And she basically said, no. So it was just kind of a me issue.

[696] But do your kids have that at all?

[697] Well, my wife was in a movie.

[698] I forget the name of it, but she played.

[699] a dork, Marnie, and she had braces and really bad skin, and she always pushed her glasses on like this.

[700] And then it was one of these stories where she kind of got hot as she got older.

[701] Cute.

[702] Do you remember the name of that one, Monica?

[703] You again.

[704] You again.

[705] Yep, you again.

[706] So they watched that, and they were so tender with her that night.

[707] It was so cute.

[708] They were like, Mom.

[709] Because you're seeing vulnerability in a way that you don't typically see from your folks.

[710] Right.

[711] You think your parents know everything.

[712] They're indomitable.

[713] When you watch your mom or your dad have a conversation with one of their friends, they're equals, right?

[714] You're watching them being very sort of meek and pathetic in this thing.

[715] It's a weird being picked on and teased.

[716] Yes, exactly.

[717] I was delighted because I was like, that's how I felt when she would do that character, like, oh, sweetie.

[718] Yes, yes, yes.

[719] For sure.

[720] I would feel that way about my partner, Claudia, also.

[721] But it's so funny, obviously, because you never for a minute and Kristen never for a minute, I would imagine, feels that way shooting it.

[722] You're like killing the performance and love it.

[723] Sure.

[724] She never looked like that.

[725] But I'm saying in the It's not like she's having a identity crisis on set.

[726] She's like, I'm killing this character.

[727] Yeah, she's not feeling tormented.

[728] She knows this is comedic.

[729] She's hoping she's doing a good enough job playing a loser.

[730] Am I enough of a loser?

[731] Yeah, the loser really, the better.

[732] So did you go to a lot of shows at the groundlings as a kid?

[733] We went to some.

[734] So I was raised on going to the groundlings as a little kid and then driving around my dad listening to Stern.

[735] Oh, no kidding.

[736] I'm a very talkative person and my parents have always been very willing to answer my questions.

[737] I can't clock the age, but there came a time where I started asking about the context of Stern.

[738] Yes.

[739] Where I think my parents were like, oh, okay.

[740] You're right, because there is a very pivotal point where most stuff's going over your kid's hands.

[741] Yes, exactly.

[742] And then they start getting wise to it.

[743] And you go tell your friend.

[744] You go like, I was listening to the Howard Stern show.

[745] And there was a woman on the Sibian.

[746] So there's this machine that will have sex with the woman and she screams.

[747] Yeah, hey, do you know what butt chugging is?

[748] Just like really violent sounding stuff.

[749] I'm very grateful to it, but I do understand them.

[750] They were always willing to answer questions, but I think they were like, he shouldn't even have these questions.

[751] I couldn't relay more.

[752] I'll answer anything they asked me, so it's just easier if we're not there yet.

[753] I was also in the unregulated internet period of time as a child.

[754] You were seeing it all.

[755] Yeah, by the time you're 12, you're seeing horrors beyond comprehension.

[756] It was murder scenes almost.

[757] So crazy.

[758] Yes.

[759] Did you have any aspirations to be in the groundlings or to act?

[760] I mean, I know you ended up acting.

[761] Yeah, I like to act.

[762] I got an agent when I was 12 and started doing auditions.

[763] I loved acting.

[764] I did the homeschool version of like a school play when I was about 12 and that made me interested in it.

[765] Why did your parents homeschool?

[766] I think I was like a pretty weird child with a bunch of separation anxiety, even by the time I was like four.

[767] They didn't have any money to send me to a crunchy private school.

[768] So it was like whatever close by I could go to.

[769] And they were actors that never worked.

[770] So they were like, we can homeschooling.

[771] And you're appreciative of that?

[772] Yeah, it worked great for me. I mean, I turned out to have a lot of self -motivation, even as a young kid, of like, I'm going to go take these crayons, my room and draw for five hours.

[773] In L .A., there's all these kind of networks via, like, email and whatever of parents that are homeschooling.

[774] You might all go do some class or some sort of extracurricular thing together.

[775] Or meet at the park for some exercise.

[776] Exactly.

[777] I only bring that up because there are kids for whom homeschooling worked out great, and then there are other kids for whom homeschooling was like, not the answer.

[778] Kids who are self -proclaimedly need outside sort of, hey, you got to do this thing and don't.

[779] have a lot of motivation.

[780] I've seen more of that version, I hate to say.

[781] There's more of those people.

[782] That's a good point.

[783] So by 14, you were on Bad Teacher.

[784] That movie's great.

[785] It's really funny.

[786] What did you do in it?

[787] I was just one of the students, which was cool because it was just tons of kids my age.

[788] I had, as you do as a child actor, like two lines.

[789] But one of them, there's a scene where she's teaching the kids by quizzing them.

[790] And if they get a question wrong, she throws a dodge ball at him.

[791] And I got a question right and got to throw a dodge ball at her.

[792] That was how the scene worked.

[793] That was a thrill.

[794] Yes.

[795] You're dying to throw a dodge ball at somebody.

[796] I had such an appreciation and a fun time being in such a professional environment.

[797] Even though actors are a fun bunch and they're joking around, it's like quiet and everybody shuts up.

[798] And I liked the 5 a .m. call times and stuff like that.

[799] It just made me feel cool.

[800] You can't really get there unless you're pretty goal -oriented.

[801] So despite the funness of it, you got to be on top of it to end up there.

[802] At the SAG Awards, for example, we were seated next to Ariana Greenblatt, who's the actress in Barbie, who's at this point in time, maybe 16 or 17, she's super young.

[803] And I ended up talking to her mom for most of the dinner.

[804] It's not a joke, but I was just sort of making the joke to her of like, I'm very pro -child labor.

[805] Like all that kind of didn't have a childhood.

[806] Fair enough, but actually you're afforded so little independence as a person.

[807] Between 12 and 18, there's so much that's out of your control anyway.

[808] Might as well go do something with some discipline, make some money.

[809] I think it's a really interesting experience.

[810] I did bad teacher as I simultaneously joined a basketball level.

[811] league.

[812] I can't repeat on this podcast the things I was called in the basketball league.

[813] It was an interesting juxtaposition in my life of being really valued and being really good at something, not basketball, being really good at acting.

[814] And then also being my team's handicap.

[815] Our team won the championship of the league.

[816] And I was like, I'm the reason it was close for them.

[817] Right, because they had to play you for us.

[818] You made it interesting for us.

[819] You were the person when they put you in the whole team, I was like, don't give him the ball.

[820] But what a great experience.

[821] is then you know early, I think I should maybe lean this way.

[822] Yeah.

[823] It was also just a good illustrator of kids can also be really mean.

[824] When you're on set, you might have kind of a like, not only do the other kids on this set think I'm cool, Justin Timberlake is high -fiving me. And then you're playing with other kids in a basketball league, and they're just hate talking to you.

[825] There's not a lot of places you get rewarded for being emotional and creative and artistic as a little boy.

[826] And so this is one of the places you can.

[827] So I'm for it.

[828] Stay tuned for more.

[829] Armchair expert, if you dare.

[830] What's up, guys?

[831] This your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[832] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[833] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[834] And I don't mean just friends.

[835] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[836] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[837] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[838] We've all been there.

[839] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[840] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[841] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[842] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[843] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

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[845] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[846] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[847] Okay, so now 12 years old, you go to a music writing class.

[848] My mom has always written songs.

[849] She never made a penny off of it, but she's always done it.

[850] I don't actually fully know the origin of that in her life.

[851] I don't know what switch flipped for her that made her start writing songs.

[852] I should have asked her before this interview.

[853] That was kind of always in our house.

[854] She was sitting down at the piano and singing stuff.

[855] And I was like, what is it?

[856] She was like, I'm writing it.

[857] So that was real.

[858] People write new stuff.

[859] And our dad doesn't write at all, but he's a pretty good pianist.

[860] And he would sit around and plunk out Beatles songs or play pieces he liked.

[861] When I was 12, I started singing in this choir, and I immediately was very smitten with this girl in the choir, who was 13.

[862] I might have even been 11.

[863] It was never going to happen, but I was hopeful.

[864] And I had this fantasy that I would be in the choir rehearsal room before anyone else got there, playing a tune wistfully.

[865] Yes.

[866] And that she'd come in and it would win her over.

[867] This was really concocted.

[868] I know it well.

[869] I do too.

[870] And the only thing in my way was I had to learn how to sing and play.

[871] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[872] Easy hurdle.

[873] Small.

[874] And so I said about doing that, and I asked my dad, like, I want to learn how to play this song.

[875] And he said, okay, there's like four chords in it.

[876] And he taught me the four chords.

[877] And that took, like, a week to learn just sort of shapes on piano.

[878] And then I said, oh, thanks for teaching me that I want to learn this other song.

[879] And he was like, this other song is the same four chords.

[880] And that completely turned my world upside down.

[881] Like, the idea that I'd learned all this stuff without trying to learn all this stuff was so thrilling.

[882] And pop music is absolutely like that.

[883] I don't know if either of you play anything.

[884] but there is such commonality in the sort of music underneath a song that if you want to play some song by this artist, you're also learning 600 ,000 other songs.

[885] That is a breakthrough.

[886] You're like, they sound so fucking different.

[887] That was game -changing.

[888] Did you ever orchestrate the moment where you were playing in front of work?

[889] Honestly, I kind of did, which is equally tragic, that it didn't work.

[890] You know what I mean?

[891] Yeah.

[892] To get that moment, took like a year of being there early.

[893] Yes.

[894] Like I was Dracula.

[895] sitting there playing every time and turning around and being like and she didn't faint no she was you know smart and then yeah I started singing about how I felt and trying to make it rhyme and my mom to her credit I think this is a really good strategy for teaching anything or parenting was not sort of ever like there's a right way or a wrong way to write songs but she started to try to help me diagnose parts of songs we'd listen to a song and she's like this is a bridge do you hear the rhyme scheme in this the rhyme scheme is a B C B that sort of language became visible to me. So that made me start writing songs.

[896] And it never felt like homework.

[897] It was never made to be homework.

[898] I just wanted to write all the time.

[899] And then I coerced friends to join bands with me and played in bands almost every day from the time I was like 12 to 18.

[900] What instrument were you playing in those?

[901] I was playing like crappy guitar and singing and desperately knew, dude, this is crazy.

[902] I'm kind of remembering this now.

[903] When I did the movie Bad Teacher at 12, this is so naive and crazy.

[904] I was like, I'm worried this is going to get in the way of my career of being a musician.

[905] I remember referencing Keanu Reeves.

[906] Sure.

[907] I remember being like, nobody takes his band seriously.

[908] Yes.

[909] Yes.

[910] So funny.

[911] By the way, I had the exact same completely foolish proposition where I was down on one of these car shows and I had set a record on this certain track and a car.

[912] Nice.

[913] And someone from mobile one was talking to me and I always want to be a race car driver.

[914] And I just got into the fourth level of the ground lanes.

[915] The guy was like, you should move down to Georgia and give this a shot.

[916] And I remember arrogantly thinking, like, well, you can go from actor to race car driver.

[917] You can't go from race car driver to actor.

[918] Totally.

[919] No one wants you to audition.

[920] Dax Shepard the race car driver.

[921] Right, right.

[922] Lewis Hamilton's not going to be like in comedies at any point.

[923] Oh, I would not rule that out.

[924] He's so talented he might be, but it would still, to your point, everybody would say this phrase.

[925] He's actually good, just from the stigma.

[926] Whereas car racing is quantifiable.

[927] You're either faster, you're not.

[928] There's really no bullshit.

[929] Even when Timberlake started acting which was hilarious because he'd grown up on the Disney channel.

[930] Right.

[931] He started acting.

[932] Everyone was like, he should go back to making albums.

[933] Everyone is so mean about it.

[934] And he's a very good actor.

[935] He was great in the social network.

[936] Yes, minimally, he's one of the best Saturday Night Live host.

[937] He was super funny and bad teacher.

[938] He's very talented and consummate, but it's really just a prejudice against everybody thinking they can then go act.

[939] Yes.

[940] Okay, so that kind of answers my follow -up question, which is like, was music the priority?

[941] And it sounds like it was.

[942] To a crazy sort of psychopathic, the only thing I care about, the only thing I'm focused on.

[943] degree hours and hours a day hours a day and just really certain that that's what i wanted to do with my life from a super young age i was like 14 thinking that i could be in a band that was big at 14 me and my friends and all our parents what on the road yeah horrible obviously i saw the documentary and i loved it and your parents seemed so fucking dreamy yeah i can't imagine they just were edited well they seem really special that's totally the way they are having a documentary made about your family is such a weird experience.

[944] I don't know if I've actually seen the final.

[945] I saw whatever the first cut they showed us was, because they demanded, we see it.

[946] And I was like, well, that's enough for me. I don't ever need to see that again.

[947] Yeah.

[948] Yeah.

[949] But even in that first cut, I was very happy about how well they documented our folks.

[950] It was an incredible documentary.

[951] It was beautiful.

[952] We became obsessed.

[953] I was up to lunch on all of it.

[954] And then I saw that, and I was just like, oh, my God.

[955] And you in particular, we could go back in There are episodes of this show where we talked endlessly about this.

[956] I don't even listen to the show enough.

[957] Well, it would have been around the circle of when that came out.

[958] We were kind of obsessed with it.

[959] We talked about it a lot.

[960] And I was so blown away with you.

[961] Obviously, your sister is so wonderful in all these ways.

[962] But I was like, this boy has a love and patience and a kindness.

[963] You're what, four years older?

[964] Yeah.

[965] As unique as your parents are to you guys, you as an older brother is really aspirational.

[966] I have a little sister.

[967] I like to think I'm pretty damn nice to her.

[968] But like sitting in a room with her and helping her get to some place and get her feelings out and articulate her emotions, I certainly didn't do that.

[969] Working together on its own and sharing that sort of spotlight is hard for any two people, let alone siblings.

[970] I cannot imagine.

[971] I mean, you're almost saved by the age gap in some ways.

[972] I bet if you were a year and a half apart, it would be a lot trickier.

[973] Maybe there's also a gendered thing.

[974] I'm not seeing as much of myself in a younger brother or an older brother.

[975] Maybe there's just kind of a difference of she's a woman and I'm not, and I feel inherently different than that person.

[976] Right.

[977] Like you have your own lanes just by birth designation.

[978] Yeah, I don't know.

[979] I've felt more competitive with my male friends than my women friends in my life.

[980] It's why we clock other dudes' bodies.

[981] Like, I'm not measuring myself against Sidney's body.

[982] I'm measuring myself against Kumales.

[983] I'm losing both battles.

[984] You would lose big time to Sidney's.

[985] Yes, I'm just saying it isn't even on my radar because I'm not.

[986] trying to turn heads.

[987] Yeah, I mean, I really love her, Billy.

[988] Sidney Sweeney is great, too.

[989] Yeah.

[990] But you have a very strange order of events, which is you have written Oceanize for your own band.

[991] Yeah, a couple things happen.

[992] I get Logic Pro, the DAW, which is same as Pro Tools or Ableton or something, a software on my computer to record, start teaching myself how to do it, go on YouTube to learn.

[993] Pretty much everything on YouTube is dudes in churches who make worship music.

[994] They're like, let me show you how to comp a vocal.

[995] Awesome.

[996] But it is kind of a funny lens to.

[997] learn all this stuff.

[998] You learn this whole tutorial on drums, and then he's like, all right, now I'm going to play my song.

[999] And it's like, I am a shell.

[1000] It's all like the most religious stuff.

[1001] You're like, oh, I have to try to not accidentally get indoctrinated.

[1002] So I learn how to do this stuff.

[1003] The motivation is I'm in this band in high school and we don't have any money so we can't record anywhere.

[1004] And I'm like, I'll just start recording us.

[1005] And I kind of like DIY records.

[1006] The Strokes is a band I've always loved.

[1007] They make some albums that sound pretty raw and unpolished.

[1008] that sounds much more achievable than like a Green Day record or something where it's clear that they're in the nicest studio with the best people working on it.

[1009] And there's this kind of lo -fi thing that I'm like, that's cool.

[1010] I'm not good enough to make the hi -fi thing, but I could maybe make this.

[1011] So I start teaching myself how to produce.

[1012] This is kind of also at the same time, the music that I grew up caring about and listening to, which is like drums and guitar and bass is being fused in a cool way with like really cool electronic stuff.

[1013] Who are some of those bands you would say?

[1014] One of the bands I have to give props to when I was like, whatever, 17 was like, There's a band 21 pilots and their guitar and drums and piano, but there's all this really cool production underneath it.

[1015] And even more than I liked their songs, this is an element of production that I'm very fascinated by.

[1016] Billy has always loved, like, hip hop, and I grew up listening to a lot of that with her, and that is its own really cool chapter of production.

[1017] Everything Dr. Dre has ever done is, like, as a producer, so incredible.

[1018] I love Timbaland.

[1019] I love Farrell.

[1020] Jay Della.

[1021] Jay Della is amazing.

[1022] I came to him later.

[1023] But yeah, Dre and Farrell and Timbaland were.

[1024] just blowing me away with the sounds of their drums and their synths so catchy.

[1025] So I just sort of started trying to experiment with stuff like that.

[1026] I have one friend, Frank Dana, who's popular at his school, huge currency at 17.

[1027] And it's like, hey, you produce, right?

[1028] And you're like, well, not really.

[1029] And he's like, that's fine.

[1030] Let's do some stuff.

[1031] What a huge vote of confidence.

[1032] And the real truth is, like, neither of us were good at making music at all.

[1033] But I suddenly was making stuff with him and we're putting it on SoundCloud and his friends are living.

[1034] listening to it and telling me I did a good job at producing it.

[1035] And I'm feeling so cool, I sort of say to Billy at some point in the summer of 2015, I'm like, do you want to sing on some stuff?

[1036] I'll write some stuff for you and you can sing on it.

[1037] Had she been singing around the house?

[1038] She's got a great choir.

[1039] She's sang in a choir.

[1040] She loves to sing.

[1041] Can I just add really quick?

[1042] What's really funny is when you're young, just necessity drives so much shit.

[1043] It's like, this dude's got to take what he can get.

[1044] He finds out you kind of produced that good enough.

[1045] It's not like he's pain.

[1046] Yeah.

[1047] And then you live with someone who sings, so it's like, let's get you on this, Right?

[1048] It's just all kind of necessity.

[1049] 100%.

[1050] So she starts singing.

[1051] She's 13, so she's just now at the age where she can maybe even tolerate me saying, do another take of that verse, a little more angry or whatever.

[1052] Right, right.

[1053] And so we start recording, and it's fun.

[1054] And I've still got this band, and the band is in sort of first stage of crisis.

[1055] The other guys had finished high school.

[1056] I was homeschooled, and I was like, I'm going to die for this.

[1057] Like, just at 17.

[1058] And our drummer, my friend David, who now is also a successful, great music producer, which is awesome.

[1059] He's in the same boat I am.

[1060] He's like, I'm going to not go to college.

[1061] Like, I'm going to make music.

[1062] And the other two guys are like, okay, we're going to go to college.

[1063] Our band sucks.

[1064] I got into Florida State.

[1065] We were not like Green Day.

[1066] We were not making dukey at 18.

[1067] We were making like terrible music.

[1068] And I write the song Ocean Ice that I think is like I appreciate myself sitting there.

[1069] But it doesn't feel like something for my band.

[1070] There's a kind of a femininity to it to me. I hear it and I think I'd rather hear a girl's voice sing this.

[1071] Was the band, is the adjective melancholy?

[1072] No, the band was like a stupid pop band.

[1073] I write this kind of sad ballad song.

[1074] Yeah, yeah.

[1075] There's not even a place for guitar on this.

[1076] I'm not going to break the news to our guitarist.

[1077] And so I say to Billy, do you have any interest in singing the song I wrote?

[1078] And she sang it.

[1079] And I thought it sounded beautiful.

[1080] And we recorded it and we put it on SoundCloud.

[1081] The thing that I'd heard about happening that always seemed like bullshit, which was you put it online and it gets plays.

[1082] Straight up happened.

[1083] Like, we put it on SoundCloud.

[1084] And the next day it was on a blog.

[1085] And then the next day it was on more.

[1086] blah, and it just started to percolate.

[1087] We were not on Ellen the next day.

[1088] It was not viral, but it was happening.

[1089] It was like a thousand plays.

[1090] Thousands of people were listening to something you made in your bedroom.

[1091] And we were getting meetings with people because they liked it.

[1092] So that was the genesis of it.

[1093] When you heard it, because when I was young and I would do something, I was just so proud I had executed that I elevated everything I did.

[1094] Like, I would shoot shorts for the groundlings that I'm like, this motherfucker might be in the Academy Awards.

[1095] I was just so delighted I was accomplishing something.

[1096] my set out to.

[1097] Ocean Eyes is an absolutely once in every couple years song.

[1098] If I had made it, if I were you, I'd have been like, I think I made the best song of all time.

[1099] Because it really is one of the greatest songs ever.

[1100] It's an incredible song.

[1101] You made it at such a young age.

[1102] I would just be like, I can't believe this thing.

[1103] And you're like, I did this kind of by accident.

[1104] What if I really try to do something?

[1105] So funny.

[1106] Yeah, to some degree, I've had this many times in my life.

[1107] We just had it with Barbie, too, and I will get to that.

[1108] But I did also get to see with my own eyes the difference between me and my crappy band singing this song and my sister with her beautiful voice singing this song and how night and day it was.

[1109] This is special.

[1110] Yeah, this is fine.

[1111] And then this is really important to me. And the Barbie comparison is we put the song out a week before the movie came out and people really liked it and I got a lot of messages like, this is a beautiful song.

[1112] But when you went and saw the film and then the song meant everything, the film meant to you and you have the sense memory of it.

[1113] You inherited all of the emotion that the film, accomplished.

[1114] Yeah, I mean, it was like every great piece of music from every movie.

[1115] You see the font.

[1116] I had the most extreme version of this with that specific movie, which is my girls had seen it before I did.

[1117] So the next day they were listening to the soundtrack, we're driving around them in the car and they want to hear the I Am Ken song.

[1118] Of course, which is so fun.

[1119] Yes, but if you've not seen the movie, it's a really trashy rock song.

[1120] I would always be like, I want to skip this one.

[1121] This is like a fight in our car.

[1122] I've now seen the movie four times.

[1123] The song is outrageous.

[1124] But yeah, that's how much I needed the movie.

[1125] Yours is on its own so...

[1126] Thank you.

[1127] It means a lot.

[1128] But I just mean that in terms of people's relationship with it, in terms of how they connect with it, it's one of the new songs that artists have put out this week, enjoy, and they're listening to that with whatever the new Pesopuluma song is and the new post -Malone song.

[1129] And they're just sort of like, here's new music.

[1130] Versus the movie I saw yesterday that I laughed and I cried through.

[1131] And then I go home and listen to that.

[1132] Yeah.

[1133] Suddenly you love it.

[1134] Also, here is a song that is now.

[1135] the symbol of the experience of women under a patriarchy.

[1136] Yeah.

[1137] Yeah, it becomes.

[1138] Now this song is like, fucking like historic.

[1139] I have to pee so bad.

[1140] No, my God.

[1141] Yeah, we'll step right out.

[1142] I'm proud of you for saying you had to and not just suffering through it.

[1143] Well, you can go next.

[1144] I'm done.

[1145] Back in it.

[1146] Is this brand new?

[1147] Like, is this like, we just got that installed.

[1148] What's great is you can only be as tall as me. The maximum height If you were like If you were six I just tall You'd hang yourself I'll tall You're tall I'm six Two and a halfish Taller than most I don't think I'm tall Like of course I don't feel tall And then I see pictures And I go Oh my God You're too tall Also when you Go to a concert Or something Where everybody's standing You're looking over everybody Yes but you know Because it's the only Way I've seen things I don't remember it Other than I get self -conscious Like the poor person Behind me I slouch in chairs At premieres And I make myself small Try to be conscientious.

[1149] How tall are you, Monica?

[1150] Five feet and a half inch.

[1151] Do you feel short?

[1152] I don't.

[1153] Great.

[1154] Do you think I look it?

[1155] Looking at both of you with my same two eyes?

[1156] We're a bad pairing.

[1157] Take him away from the scenario.

[1158] That's the problem.

[1159] If you just see me in the world.

[1160] When you see me walking.

[1161] You look like an iPod Nano looking at the two of you right now.

[1162] I'm not saying that you would as a person.

[1163] I mean, when I see you about the neighborhood, I think, man, Monica's got those long legs that she wishes she didn't have.

[1164] That's right.

[1165] That's right.

[1166] That's right.

[1167] That's getting away from me. For one year I had long legs.

[1168] I can't catch up to her.

[1169] I really should have enjoyed it while I had it.

[1170] I would see you around the neighborhood.

[1171] I think she's five feet, but she's moving nightmarishly quickly.

[1172] I can't.

[1173] I know.

[1174] She doesn't even make sense.

[1175] Fast.

[1176] I think I read taller than I am.

[1177] I've been told that.

[1178] But so often people meet us together.

[1179] Yeah, that's a problem.

[1180] And it's really funny.

[1181] And you're on the slightly tall into the spectrum and you're on the slightly shorter end of the spectrum.

[1182] The common common is like, wow, you're taller than I thought.

[1183] And you're shorter than I thought.

[1184] Yeah.

[1185] People love to say, stupid shit.

[1186] Right.

[1187] For me, it's generally good.

[1188] well it's like a reverse burn this even happened i was fucking presenting on an award show and i was paired with who is that australian actress singer maybe very very popular and then in the middle of her presenting she turned and she goes wow you're so much better looking in real life she just said it out loud on the show i think that would make me feel really good to make you feel good it did but you know the mind it's kind of an insult it's like i've been thinking you look back i've thought you were not bad looking Yeah, totally.

[1189] And it's all where your own self -esteem is on that given day.

[1190] So that day I was like, oh, that's nice.

[1191] Better that than I look worse in real life.

[1192] I'd prefer to look good in real life than on movies.

[1193] Sure.

[1194] Right, if I had to pick.

[1195] Uh -huh.

[1196] Okay.

[1197] Wait, real quick, I know we're in the middle of something, but now we're on this, and I do think it's interesting because you bring this up a lot that when people comment on the two of you.

[1198] Me and Billy.

[1199] Yes.

[1200] And as people comment on us a lot.

[1201] We had an argument.

[1202] You're a duo.

[1203] Whenever you're a duo, the comments are often, they can be at the expense.

[1204] of the other person or in relation to.

[1205] Dax really hates that, even though you did just do it and the thing we're cutting out.

[1206] Yeah, yeah, but I feel solid about that one.

[1207] But everyone feels solid.

[1208] Yes, it happens a lot when they write an article about Monica, the inclination is to go like...

[1209] I mean, you hear it as they're saying it's despite you or something that I'm good, but it's tricky.

[1210] It's tricky.

[1211] But they're also trying to elevate me because I'm not the main focus.

[1212] Instead of just saying, she's great.

[1213] It tends to be like if she weren't there or she keeps him from blank or the way they want to compliment her is somehow always at least feels disparaging to me, whether it is or not.

[1214] Does it bother you?

[1215] It only bothered me when one of our friends, they were asked to quote and we're friends and I was like, well, that was a weird way to phrase.

[1216] What do they say?

[1217] I wish I could remember the details.

[1218] Was he like, Dax sucks and Monica's great, what did he say?

[1219] He didn't know.

[1220] Thank God Monica's there because that guy is fucking sucks.

[1221] That's what he said.

[1222] So brutal.

[1223] First academic to say that.

[1224] It was an argument.

[1225] We got in a debate.

[1226] We got in a debate.

[1227] This was it, was you hear this?

[1228] The end of the Wyatt Kurt Russell episode?

[1229] Probably.

[1230] It was that Monica had been watching.

[1231] The Globes, right?

[1232] Yes.

[1233] I heard this because I woke up to text from my friends in New York that were like, I didn't know you were going to be on armchair and I was like, oh, do they talk, and I listened to it.

[1234] Oh yeah, because we kind of, we never do that, but we did it.

[1235] Exciting.

[1236] Yeah.

[1237] Okay, so then you're familiar with the debate.

[1238] I remember it.

[1239] Should we talk about it?

[1240] Yeah.

[1241] Let's talk about it.

[1242] I remember both of your points.

[1243] This is the day after the globes or something.

[1244] Monica's point, which was very kind, was Phineas stands there like a potted plant as they ask Billy a bunch of questions, and then they go, bye guys, wouldn't it be nice if they asked him a question?

[1245] Yeah.

[1246] Dax's point was, who cares?

[1247] It's a little interview before the Golden Globes, and she's wearing a cool outfit, and he's wearing a suit, and he's the millionth person that night in the suit, and it's not a representation of who's more important.

[1248] It's a representation of the audience and the interview.

[1249] A red carpet, like the conceit of a red carpet, which is, let's get the most popular person here to talk about their outfit.

[1250] Also, I'm going to throw this in there.

[1251] Red carpets fucking suck.

[1252] Yes, yes.

[1253] The interviews are awful.

[1254] They're so uncomfortable.

[1255] The idea that I get to stand there and not have to say anything is a thrill.

[1256] You like it.

[1257] Well, yeah.

[1258] And there are great interviews.

[1259] I don't want to be disparaging of all interviews.

[1260] I just mean the format and the environment.

[1261] If you watch an interview, you can see they shift the mic over to me. And Billy relaxes and gets to not suddenly be nervous and have to come up with an answer to the question we've been asked 450 times.

[1262] in the last two months.

[1263] It's brutal.

[1264] The closest analogy I can imagine is, you know, when the prisoners escape from jail and they shine that enormous light on the person's face.

[1265] Because Kristen and I do a ton of interviews together too, right?

[1266] When you get the sense that they're actually going and then the interviewer goes like, you guys haven't been out in public and all of a sudden you just feel like, oh, fuck, that big old light is shining.

[1267] I mean, I hope it's shining on her.

[1268] I need a minute to think about this question.

[1269] The best case scenario is that you're boring and the worst case scenario is you say something they never invite you to anything ever again.

[1270] It's like very high stakes.

[1271] That's true.

[1272] And then the point I'll add, too, and you're here to answer this, which I appreciate, is I was also making the point that there has to be some expectations on your end.

[1273] Like who you're trying to be, and my guess is that you're trying to be Quincy Jones.

[1274] You said it, Timberlin, Farrell, I'm imagining that the space you want to occupy, you also recognize Quincy Jones was behind the Michael Jackson, but Quincy Jones is the genius that is in all these other things.

[1275] I can't imagine as you endeavor into the job you have that you're expecting to be all that.

[1276] popular.

[1277] Does that make any sense?

[1278] I think that everybody in every avenue of their life is hoping to be seen for their work, right?

[1279] If you do something, if you build your kids a playhouse, and they go in and they go, well, whoever built this did a great job.

[1280] And you go, I built it.

[1281] Yeah.

[1282] Whoever's right here.

[1283] You know what I mean?

[1284] Like, you want recognition.

[1285] You want recognition.

[1286] I feel very seen.

[1287] I feel very lucky about how much recognition I already have.

[1288] Most producers and songwriters have less than I do.

[1289] I'm aware of that, and I don't take that for granted.

[1290] And being as famous as Billy is a nightmare.

[1291] I would never want that.

[1292] She wears it really well, and she is actually a rock star.

[1293] I say that, like, as a person.

[1294] Like, she is a charismatic enigma.

[1295] The air gets crackly in the room when she walks in.

[1296] And it's cool to see that.

[1297] I don't feel that way when we're in my basement making a song, but, like, I see it at a function.

[1298] And I don't want to have that, and I don't pretend to have it.

[1299] And the consequence of that is she can't do anything.

[1300] heavy price to pay.

[1301] She can't really walk around.

[1302] I often try to sort of like, well, surely we can go to this little sandwich shop at this time of day because nobody will be in there and it'll be fine.

[1303] And we go in there and it's kind of a disaster.

[1304] The people making the sandwich are so weird and then take their aprons off and want a photo.

[1305] And there's kids over at the table just filming us.

[1306] There is an echelon of fame that's many, many, many rungs higher than I am that's untenable.

[1307] And also she's a woman.

[1308] And I think that people interact with women differently in the public eye.

[1309] not intimidated by them in the way that they should be and in a way that they are respectful toward men.

[1310] They have no compunctions about putting a phone in Billy's face and being like, this is my sister on FaceTime.

[1311] I know that it's all a privilege and we're all lucky, but it's fucking rude.

[1312] I don't actually feel bad about saying that because everybody's so checked out of common courtesy and you wouldn't do any of this stuff to like your friend or a person that was your friend's friend.

[1313] It's just absolutely rude.

[1314] You know, and I love that's happening right now.

[1315] Sure.

[1316] I see it too.

[1317] What?

[1318] I love it.

[1319] She's your sister.

[1320] You're protective of your sister.

[1321] And by the way, like, I don't fight with people on the internet.

[1322] Like, they'll say shit about me. I don't ever engage.

[1323] When someone says something about Kristen, it's fucking on.

[1324] And I won't complain about being famous, but on her behalf, I will do it.

[1325] But what you're saying, and I think is my sister, more than anyone.

[1326] I'll kill everyone in this fucking town if they call her a name.

[1327] But there's a claustrophobia.

[1328] I've been around certain people.

[1329] It's too much.

[1330] Everyone there can't not think about them.

[1331] That feels very constricting to me and scary.

[1332] Yeah, it's crazy.

[1333] I mean, and again, I get it.

[1334] Everybody has people like that.

[1335] And L .A. is a city like that.

[1336] Whether you know them or not, whether you're in the industry or not, you will see some person who was very important to you for a period of your life at a diner.

[1337] And you'd be like, holy shit, that person who's so important to me is in this elevator.

[1338] And it's hard not to be weird, but it's super claustrophobic.

[1339] I've had a couple instances of experiencing it on my own, and I freaked out.

[1340] The examples I'll give it.

[1341] We were on tour a couple years ago, and we were playing in Seattle, and I went and had lunch.

[1342] with a friend Capitol Hill, which is like a cool neighborhood.

[1343] That's not a great spot for you.

[1344] We'd just done it to ourselves because we were playing a show, which meant that everyone was in town in that neighborhood to see our show, which meant they knew who I was.

[1345] And it was the one day a year where I have the feeling of like, I can't really go anywhere and I'm getting chased.

[1346] And it's so awful.

[1347] It's a little bit scary on a very primitive level.

[1348] You feel a little hunted.

[1349] Yeah, you like walk into poles and shit.

[1350] You're totally flustered and disorienting.

[1351] Absolutely.

[1352] Yeah.

[1353] But I guess back to the thing about...

[1354] So who's right.

[1355] Well, I think that both of you are basically practicing empathy and you're both talking about the same thing, which is you're recognizing the Robin Andy Richter of the armchair expert with Dax Shepard.

[1356] When we got to that.

[1357] You probably know implicitly how it feels to be the person always there, always participating in the thing who's not the masthead.

[1358] Yes, exactly.

[1359] And you're offering a version that you've experienced it in parallels, which is that you date Kristen and you have these other versions of it where you're like, I've also been the person standing there and holding the microphone for the person talking.

[1360] Monaco will tell you, 80 % of people that come up to me in real life to say hi that they know me, they're there to say that they like my wife.

[1361] They don't say they like me. They come up and they go, oh, my God, I love your wife.

[1362] And I go, me too.

[1363] It took me 10 years to figure out what to say to that.

[1364] How do you feel about people coming up to you with their friend and making sure you know that they don't know who you are?

[1365] Oh, I love that.

[1366] My girlfriend wanted to say hi.

[1367] I guess she likes you.

[1368] I don't even know who are.

[1369] Yes.

[1370] They're very proud of that.

[1371] Luke Wilson was the one who first introduced me to this concept.

[1372] We were doing idiocracy together.

[1373] And he was saying, yeah, my favorite.

[1374] everything is, I'm at a bar and all of a sudden some guy comes up to me. He's like, I don't know who the fuck you are, but apparently everyone in here thinks you're hot shit.

[1375] What do you think you're going to do?

[1376] Like, think they're so sick?

[1377] What the fuck is going on?

[1378] I took Claudia to Paris one time and we were by the Eiffel Tower.

[1379] At night in the summer, the Eiffel Tower does this like glittery thing.

[1380] Yeah, yeah.

[1381] So we were waiting for that to happen.

[1382] And it was very sweet.

[1383] This girl comes up and she's like sobbing.

[1384] And she's with another friend who looks shocked.

[1385] And then this third, very confident kind of smirking friend who was like, they're going crazy.

[1386] I don't even know who you are.

[1387] And this girl's like trembling.

[1388] I'm just kind of calming her down.

[1389] And I'm like, it's all right.

[1390] And we take a photo.

[1391] And then the other girl who's like shocked, whatever.

[1392] And the third girl who this whole time as I'm taking these photos of this girl is like, who are you?

[1393] I don't even know.

[1394] Who cares?

[1395] And finally, she goes, can I have a picture?

[1396] Right.

[1397] Of course.

[1398] And I went, a fucking course not.

[1399] I go, you have no idea who I am.

[1400] And I told her, I was like, you just can't do both.

[1401] You can't have your cake and eating me. I'm unimportant and you don't know who I am and also beg me for a photo.

[1402] You just can't do that.

[1403] And I said to her friends, don't ever let her forget.

[1404] This is like a bad showing for her.

[1405] Yeah, I was so stupid.

[1406] I'm interested in this.

[1407] So what has changed for me is it's been 20 -some years of this.

[1408] So I chilled out and I have totally different relationship with all of it than I had in the past.

[1409] But another big element of it was I didn't feel entitled to accept the compliments I got because I was in Mike Judge's movie or I was in Jason Katham's show.

[1410] So when I would get those compliments.

[1411] I couldn't really own them.

[1412] This thing is the first thing.

[1413] You created, you do.

[1414] And if you like it, it's not that you liked a character I played, you like me. It's totally changed my relationship with it.

[1415] For the last six years, I genuinely can't wait to talk to any arm cherry that stops me. I fucking love it.

[1416] And so I'm wondering for you, you're in this interesting situation where it's like, it is yours.

[1417] You can have full ownership.

[1418] But also, there is this very popular woman attached to it.

[1419] And I don't know that you can delineate in any given time.

[1420] Is this a young girl who likes pop culture, or is this someone who appreciates the music?

[1421] They usually clue me into it.

[1422] If they're like, tell your sister, I love her, that's great.

[1423] And that's fine.

[1424] Yeah.

[1425] But I think we feel enough of a share in the work that if they say, I love what you make, that's awesome.

[1426] I put out some music under my own name, and I don't feel any better or worse about that in terms of like, if somebody goes, I love your thing, I go, oh, thanks.

[1427] I don't have, oh, that means so much more to me than saying you like Billy's thing, because I feel like we worked on it.

[1428] This really ties exactly into the red carpet thing.

[1429] It's truly just the ultimate message for every human being is like, if you feel it for yourself, none of the other stuff matters.

[1430] You have to give yourself validation and self -esteem.

[1431] And what is obvious to me is you've given it to yourself.

[1432] So whether or not the interviewer from E Entertainment, if that's even still an outlet, really doesn't matter.

[1433] You also give it to each other.

[1434] I mean, like, that's the other thing.

[1435] Billy is so generous and effusive about me to me, privately or publicly to me, and I for sure feel the same way.

[1436] But I think that's the other big thing is sometimes you hear these weird like haul and oats one of those guys just fully maligning the other guy oh they can't see in each other i really empathize because clearly they have personal grievances but it plays so badly it's not great you know they're my favorite band by the way they're so talented it is a hard pill to swallow when one part of a group says it was really a solo project or some bullshit like that and you're like how come none of your solo projects worked then exactly how come that was the only magic well and i think that becomes even what fuels the resentment is like i am writing all these songs I sing them all.

[1437] Let's go Hall and O's.

[1438] Point of fact, Daryl Hall is the superior musician and songwriter.

[1439] And he couldn't do it on his own.

[1440] He's probably going like, what in the fuck?

[1441] I write these songs.

[1442] I sing them all.

[1443] John's just backup dancing now.

[1444] And yet I can't do it without him.

[1445] It's like almost probably maddeny.

[1446] What I'm picking up from that is that they don't love each other.

[1447] Or they don't recognize what the other person's bringing.

[1448] But my point is if you love each other, then it doesn't matter.

[1449] Not so much with Billy.

[1450] We really are in the soup working together.

[1451] but I have creative relationships with friends where we love each other, and we worked on three things together, and there's one that I did completely alone, and there's one that they did completely alone.

[1452] And we just love each other, and it doesn't bother me when somebody gives him credit for the thing I did or vice versa.

[1453] I would love that guy to be successful.

[1454] You would want that for them.

[1455] Again, that's why I'm trying to give as much empathy as I can to Holo notes or anybody like that is there actually isn't anything more painful than somebody that you hate getting credit for some shit you did.

[1456] That is the worst feeling.

[1457] It is.

[1458] You're right.

[1459] If you love them, you're like, oh, I'm happy they get to shine.

[1460] It doesn't matter.

[1461] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[1462] Okay, so you're getting increasingly into scoring, and I'm curious about what did you have to learn as I guess the fallout was the first thing you scored?

[1463] Yeah.

[1464] Yeah, so what did you have to master to do that?

[1465] What was different about that process?

[1466] So that movie, this is a funny example of like how life feels.

[1467] Megan Park, who directed a couple of music videos for Billy years prior, comes to me and says, I'm making this indie movie, Jenna Ortega's going to be in it.

[1468] I get sort of told by her, this is going to be the easiest movie you're ever going to score.

[1469] It's not very much music.

[1470] I trust you.

[1471] Just go do it.

[1472] And because I didn't know what I was doing, I'm making it feeling all sorry for myself being like, what are they talking about?

[1473] This is so hard.

[1474] Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

[1475] Because I don't know what I'm doing.

[1476] Yeah.

[1477] And I've now done some scoring jobs.

[1478] And I'm like, that was totally the easiest scoring job I'll ever do.

[1479] She was right.

[1480] She was very generous.

[1481] make whatever you want.

[1482] She had some feedback, but it was pretty light.

[1483] We've had a lot of conversations and understanding.

[1484] We did the spotting session where you sit with the director and watch the movie and pause it every couple minutes and go like, there should be score here, what should it be?

[1485] So then I did a movie like a year later.

[1486] Really quick.

[1487] Is the most constraining thing, the bizarre length of time the thing has to be?

[1488] There's actually a person whose job it is to worry about that.

[1489] So you make your piece of music that hopefully has beats and that goes to this.

[1490] But also, you're working on it while they're still editing it.

[1491] So you can't really compose.

[1492] is a piece of music that's like, and then it starts right here because they're going to cut a couple seconds out of it.

[1493] So you make this piece that's kind of an approximation and a person whose job title is music editor takes your file and conforms it.

[1494] I would say the hardest part is just that everything can be interpreted.

[1495] Me as a musician, I watch the movie and I feel however I feel about this scene and I make some piece of music.

[1496] Whether I even love it or hate it, hopefully I love it and feel like it's perfect for it.

[1497] And then the director goes, I don't think this is what should be in the scene.

[1498] and there's not much point in arguing because it's their film and they're a filmmaker and in all the cases of the ones I've scored there like I wrote the script, I directed it and I'm editing it.

[1499] This song isn't right for it or this piece of music.

[1500] And I think as a music producer, as a songwriter, I would sit with you both and we'd write a song until we all felt good about it.

[1501] So that sort of audition feeling of killing yourself over a piece of music for three days and presenting it to a filmmaker and them going, I don't like it.

[1502] And you go like, okay, and you shake the etch -a -sketched and start over is crazy.

[1503] A guy I work with on my scoring stuff One time was like, it's like setting time on fire Like that was how you described Like you've done a thing that teaches you nothing Control, Alt, delete the whole thing Yeah, and then the best part to me Is that you watch this scene And it evokes something And you would never have made the piece of music Without watching the scene And the scene wouldn't be as good Without that piece of music you made And that handshake is so cool And there's these famous stories I'm sure you're not becoming aware of them like Chinatown, right?

[1504] Do you know this story about China.

[1505] I don't know the Chinatown one.

[1506] That was one of the most famous scores of all time, but Chinatown had been directed and sat on a shelf at Paramount for like two years.

[1507] It just tested terribly.

[1508] They could not get this movie to test well and work.

[1509] And then, is it gold most famous composer?

[1510] I'm forgetting his name, gold something.

[1511] He does the famous Chinatown score to it.

[1512] They test in the 90s and wins best pitcher.

[1513] Somehow that music made the entirety of that movie makes sense.

[1514] It's a great score.

[1515] But there's so many scores like that.

[1516] Lord of the Rings is a score that growing up was so evocative to me as an older adolescent, Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross scored the social network.

[1517] And I love that movie.

[1518] And I also had an epiphany for me as a child of like, I who can't write a full orchestra because that's not a language I speak.

[1519] I can make cool synths and how well that worked together.

[1520] There are pivotal experiences of score to me. Yeah, Trent's a really great example of it.

[1521] But before him, talking heads, he's done some score.

[1522] There's John Bryan.

[1523] John Bryan is unbelievable.

[1524] Those film scores.

[1525] Punch drunk love.

[1526] Absolutely.

[1527] And you know what's a funny is as I was starting to direct and as I was learning the importance of score, John Brian was, of course, the one I was most obsessed with.

[1528] And I started realizing, I was like, okay, my favorite movies are Eternal Sunshine.

[1529] I love that movie so much.

[1530] All the Paul Thomas Anderson movies.

[1531] What you start realizing is like, I think I'm obsessed with John Brian.

[1532] Totally the common thread.

[1533] I was thinking it was these directors and obviously they're great directors, but weirdly all these movies fit into the same column of me loving them emotionally.

[1534] And it was actually John Bryan.

[1535] Isn't that crazy?

[1536] Yeah, like you would think, oh, I should go see everything they directed.

[1537] No, I should go out and see everything John has scored.

[1538] Claudia would tell you it's the thing I remark on.

[1539] We'll be watching some movie and I'll go like, man, this is great.

[1540] I fucking can't stand this score.

[1541] I spent last year doing this score for this series that's on Apple that Alfonso Quaron directed, disclaimer.

[1542] That was like going to university for a year.

[1543] It was crazy.

[1544] In terms of just how much I learned and the length and so outside of my comfort zone of what I know how to do as a musician.

[1545] Also, Alfonso Caron is a very intimidating director.

[1546] Because he's so brilliant.

[1547] He's so brilliant.

[1548] I have a funny origin story with Alfonso, which was Billy and I are on tour in Milan in spring of 2018, way before she has like a mainstream thing.

[1549] She has like a buzzy EP at the time.

[1550] Our tour manager says, hey, Boo Corone is coming tonight.

[1551] She's Alfonso Caron's daughter.

[1552] And we're like, oh, that's cool.

[1553] They're getting the VIP wristband, whatever you do.

[1554] We're playing the tiniest venue.

[1555] There's no difference.

[1556] You can't get closer.

[1557] Billy's meeting everyone at the venue anyway.

[1558] Boo actually is the coolest, nicest person.

[1559] She's great.

[1560] And you never know what that means.

[1561] Maybe Boo's coming with a friend and her friend's family.

[1562] So she shows up and he's there.

[1563] They're kind of there before the show.

[1564] And I'm like, oh my God.

[1565] Back to the like, how to not be weird around a person you admire.

[1566] Prisoner of Azcabin is the best Harry Potter movie and Harry Potter the franchise is so important to me. And gravity is incredible too.

[1567] But like, I just was so crazy about that.

[1568] Yeah.

[1569] We love Claudia, but I also want you guys to get married.

[1570] Because I like you both.

[1571] I know, we love Claudians.

[1572] She's going to be around forever.

[1573] Five years is a long time.

[1574] I know, but Harry Potter.

[1575] There's no cracks in it.

[1576] Yeah, it doesn't see why there's any cracks.

[1577] Anyway, so I say hi to boo and she's awesome.

[1578] We have a lovely conversation.

[1579] I can barely look Alfonso in the eye and I go like, Prismar Vazcavanzum.

[1580] Like you just like mumble something to me. And he goes, the sound at the second verse of hostage the Billy's song where it goes, he goes, what go like that?

[1581] And I was like, what?

[1582] First of all, he's a very musical guy.

[1583] but he'd been listening to Billy's music and dissected it and caring about it and liking the sounds.

[1584] And he was like, can I send you playlist?

[1585] And we started sending each other playlist.

[1586] Oh, my Lord.

[1587] My great point of pride is I sent him this song, Pony Boy, by the amazing gone but not forgotten DJ, Sophie.

[1588] That's a crazy piece of music.

[1589] I gotta add that.

[1590] She was a real visionary and very inspiring.

[1591] But Alfonso was like, I'm loving this pony boy song.

[1592] And he'd come to L .A. once a year for some meeting with Netflix and we'd have dinner.

[1593] He was so cool.

[1594] This is kind of like the origin of all my scoring.

[1595] It's a cauldering COVID, and he's like, obviously, COVID's happening.

[1596] Nothing's going on.

[1597] But I'm going to do this thing.

[1598] And I think you should score it.

[1599] His justification, which totally makes sense, is he barely has score in anything.

[1600] Roma has no score.

[1601] Children of Men barely has any score.

[1602] And he was like, so I'm not really a score guy.

[1603] And you're not really a composer.

[1604] That's a match made in heaven.

[1605] Let's do it.

[1606] And I was immediately panicked.

[1607] You know what I mean?

[1608] That's so scared.

[1609] And so I went and scored other stuff.

[1610] So I scored the fallout.

[1611] And then I scored this movie for BJNob.

[1612] I just did anything anyone would let me do and learned a ton and I'm very grateful to them and I like those movies.

[1613] But it was actually all so that I would know what to do when Alfonso then called.

[1614] You're so responsible.

[1615] I would have just panicked and tried to get out of it until the day arrived.

[1616] I was still totally unprepared.

[1617] And I have only more love for him after this process ended.

[1618] But the only thing I prepared myself for was how soul crushing it is.

[1619] Like I only prepared myself for the feeling of turning in a piece of music and the person you love going, it's not good.

[1620] And Alfonso, to his credit, is very good with his language.

[1621] He uses words like, I'm not connecting with this one, right?

[1622] He's never like, this sucks.

[1623] Right.

[1624] There's a failing on my part.

[1625] Yes, exactly.

[1626] I do the same thing with people whenever I'm trying to articulate where I go, I must not have explained myself well enough.

[1627] You can really put a lot of onus on yourself.

[1628] Yes.

[1629] Not trigger the defensiveness.

[1630] Well, because it makes it in arguable too.

[1631] So that was an amazing experience.

[1632] I definitely am in a little bit of a detox period.

[1633] Scoring seven episodes, it was like hours and hours of score.

[1634] For about a year, there was never a day where I shouldn't be working.

[1635] Didn't have homework.

[1636] Yes.

[1637] Never like a Saturday where I was like, nothing to do today.

[1638] Oh, I could actually go do 10 hours of work right now if I wanted to.

[1639] And I should definitely do three.

[1640] This is the plague of a writer.

[1641] Of course, there's always writing to write.

[1642] Now, you've already answered my question by demonstrating it.

[1643] But you have said that being an actor was helpful, that learning to play a character was really helpful in helping the different artists.

[1644] you've worked with, which have been a bunch of impressive ones at this point, you're taking on their voice and even used a word vernacular, which I love, is like to make it really sound like it would be them and be their story.

[1645] Being so verbose.

[1646] Yeah, the exact quote.

[1647] Playing characters has helped you as a songwriter, producer.

[1648] It was on the red carpet.

[1649] Their vernacular, so it's...

[1650] No, it wasn't.

[1651] It was really good, and I bought it.

[1652] You said sometimes you'll write a really cool lyric, and the artist will go, oh, that's really cool.

[1653] And they might even be inclined to do it, but that you...

[1654] you have to actually figure out can they wear it and when i was watching the doc i was like that's what this guy's gift is beyond musically is you're really able to get in and figure out what the person's trying to say i feel like you can put people on pretty well that's why i would imagine you actually be really good at scoring because yes you're turning over something it's their movie but this is already what you've been doing their movie is their personality just like these artists are in the match made in heaven of me and billy to me i believe anything she says when she sings a line, she conveys it.

[1655] It's inarguable.

[1656] It's such a gift.

[1657] I often work with artists where I'll maybe write some lyric with them that feels clever.

[1658] And they'll sing it and I'm like, that gives me the shivers.

[1659] I don't really like, that doesn't sound.

[1660] I feel like I'm being lied to.

[1661] Sounds annoying when you say it.

[1662] Yeah.

[1663] Well, that's like when we had David Sedaris on.

[1664] I love David Sedaris.

[1665] I've read all of David Sedaris's so special.

[1666] He's so perfect.

[1667] We made him a member of our seven person Illuminati.

[1668] We did.

[1669] We did.

[1670] Yeah, yeah.

[1671] Sharing his role with Bill Gates.

[1672] But he said if he ever feels too precious about a line, he cuts it.

[1673] So disciplined.

[1674] So disciplined.

[1675] I mean, it's different than what you're saying, but sort of.

[1676] Like, sounds so good to you.

[1677] But then you hear it come out of someone's mouth and you're like, uh -oh.

[1678] Yeah, it definitely proved fully true in scoring.

[1679] The night that I made a piece that I go, I don't even know if this is good at all, was the night that Alfonso would be like, this is great.

[1680] And the night that I was like, he's going to love this.

[1681] He would be like, this is not right.

[1682] My follow question to that was playing these different characters as I was like, I wonder if Phineas is a mimic, and then it's already happened.

[1683] Oh, done some accents.

[1684] Yes, he does Alfonso, he did Arnold, he did the French girl.

[1685] This is nothing cool.

[1686] I went a little German on that by accident.

[1687] Well, sometimes they...

[1688] It worked.

[1689] I was close.

[1690] Mine's Zig and Zag.

[1691] They sometimes start as Italian.

[1692] I do love an impression, yeah.

[1693] Oh.

[1694] I'm not like, you know, Jay Farrow.

[1695] I'm not doing a bunch of famous people.

[1696] I do like my friend.

[1697] Yes, similarly, I don't think of myself as someone who can do it, but if I hang out with somebody, I can do it.

[1698] Or if I watch a series long enough, I eventually get there.

[1699] And some people also are not impressionable.

[1700] Some people have such a signature crazy thing that they do.

[1701] The whole Christopher Walken syndrome, everyone can do a bad Christopher Walking because it's so unique.

[1702] But not many people can do like Ed Helms.

[1703] Exactly.

[1704] Ed Helms is deeply neutral.

[1705] Your life is about sound, so I'm not surprised that you can do that.

[1706] It makes me think of Kristen.

[1707] Yeah, yeah.

[1708] Oh, is she a mimic?

[1709] Yes.

[1710] To the degree that if you watch a show with her, anybody, or she did a movie with Drew Barrymore, if she had called somebody during that movie and talked, people would thought it was Drew Barrymore.

[1711] She can really do anybody.

[1712] Her life is about sound as well, so it makes sense.

[1713] Oh, here's a fun chapter of my relationship.

[1714] Claudia, you know, at some point very early on, it was like, oh, you just do impressions for your own amusement all the time.

[1715] And I think at one point said to me lovingly, like, would it kill you to tell the story not in this accent?

[1716] Oh, I can relate to Claudia.

[1717] Like, because I'm telling it about the guy that I met at the thing.

[1718] And he's from Croatia, and I'm just doing the voice.

[1719] And I think she was like, I get it.

[1720] You can do it.

[1721] Can you just do a regular one?

[1722] I disagree with Monica and Claudia.

[1723] I would love to live with you and hear all the characters.

[1724] Hey, sorry.

[1725] It's my greatest gift.

[1726] It's the thing that I'm more proud of than anything else.

[1727] But somewhere along the line, we realized that Claudia, who's a very physically funny person, can kind of do everybody's gait.

[1728] She can kind of do everybody's walk the way they sit in a chair.

[1729] And that's not really my bag.

[1730] That's on your lane.

[1731] But I've started sort of being like, How do you, because she sometimes doesn't even care, but she's already noticed it.

[1732] So I'll be like, how does that person walk across the room?

[1733] And she'll just kill it, you know?

[1734] Oh, interesting.

[1735] Together we make one whole comedian.

[1736] Body and mind of an impression.

[1737] And she'll probably know what hand gestures, people use.

[1738] She rocks it, yeah.

[1739] Yeah, immediately.

[1740] Okay.

[1741] You're finishing a new album.

[1742] Billy's new album is done.

[1743] You're done.

[1744] Yeah.

[1745] You finish scoring the movie.

[1746] Yes.

[1747] And so what do you want to do now?

[1748] And are you able to take breaks?

[1749] Yes.

[1750] Yes.

[1751] I mean, I've been sort of outside of the award season that just ended.

[1752] Congratulations.

[1753] Thanks.

[1754] How crazy.

[1755] You guys wrote that song in 30 minutes.

[1756] Is that true?

[1757] We wrote it really fast.

[1758] Billy time checked us because we recorded it.

[1759] I think it was like an hour or an hour and a half, but it was very fast.

[1760] But I was talking about this with somebody the other day.

[1761] It is unfortunate that the songs or the anything that you work on for three months is good.

[1762] But the one that happens immediately is usually like the great thing.

[1763] Yeah.

[1764] Well, it kind of makes sense.

[1765] It was meant to come out.

[1766] Yeah, it's inspired.

[1767] That was a wild experience.

[1768] You listen to Stern a lot.

[1769] I listen to so many different musicians.

[1770] being interviewed.

[1771] And 90 % of these legendary songs in the can, and someone was in the shower, they stepped out, they sat down, they wrote it in 35 seconds.

[1772] I had an idea.

[1773] Does that even open up your mind to like spirituality or anything?

[1774] It's because it's weird, right?

[1775] It's super weird.

[1776] I don't mean to be dismissive of spirituality, but I don't want to use it as a crutch.

[1777] You don't want to link it to that and then not be able to tap into that.

[1778] Exactly.

[1779] That makes sense.

[1780] Kind of superstitious.

[1781] It's like a superstitious.

[1782] Yeah, maybe a little superstitious.

[1783] But I'm much calmer.

[1784] I'm doing a bunch of music with some friends of mine for maybe a, solo record and some collaborative stuff.

[1785] In a very back to what I started making music doing, which is a bunch of people in a room playing cool stuff and making jams, which is very antithetical to the way I've had a career, which is like me and Billy in a room or me scoring alone in a room.

[1786] It's all been kind of lonely.

[1787] When Billy and I together, it's not, but there's a kind of a loneliness to producing.

[1788] Yeah.

[1789] And so I've been trying to be very social and collaborative for fun.

[1790] How old are you in the video of you and Billy at the piano?

[1791] You're playing a Frank Ocean Song.

[1792] You both looked so young.

[1793] Yeah.

[1794] I was like 18, 17.

[1795] Wow.

[1796] It's such a sweet video.

[1797] How many people say this to you?

[1798] Is your mom just so proud?

[1799] Oh, yeah.

[1800] Our mom is like a hilariously good person.

[1801] I paid off her mortgage and she immediately started a nonprofit, immediately devoted her life to service.

[1802] Her nonprofit is so incredible.

[1803] Support and feed if you want to look at it.

[1804] Support and feed.

[1805] Go to support and feed.

[1806] Go to support and feed .org.

[1807] Yeah.

[1808] It's probably an org.

[1809] It might be an org.

[1810] I don't know.

[1811] I love an org.

[1812] But it's great.

[1813] They're the best.

[1814] They're so great.

[1815] And we really do feel like it's no mystery.

[1816] We really are just sort of our parents' children.

[1817] Yeah, but, you know, Dax has two girls.

[1818] No, I don't even know.

[1819] They're at the Oscars singing and together.

[1820] If you have kids someday, you'll experience this.

[1821] I desperately want to.

[1822] I feel like you really should.

[1823] I hate people feel like a proselytons.

[1824] I am.

[1825] I'm not a shamer, but I'm here to say.

[1826] No, I'm all about it.

[1827] human being, it trumps all the other spectacular things I've got to do.

[1828] I don't know if you feel this way, but when you were 14 and you thought you were going to be in a band that was huge, and you fantasized about this whole thing, and then you've arrived at that location.

[1829] My hunch is, you love it, you're grateful for it.

[1830] It's very wonderful.

[1831] The process is great.

[1832] And additionally, you're not living in a fantasy.

[1833] There's no transcended elation that accompanies that, or is there?

[1834] The example I'd give is like playing a live show is pretty magical and the longevity of that is pretty magical.

[1835] I'm not saying that you maybe are going to play like biggest venue of your life every night forever.

[1836] But if you can sustain something like that, like your podcast, whatever it is, the ongoingness of it is fulfilling.

[1837] Making albums with Billy over the years is fulfilling.

[1838] I don't want to stop doing that.

[1839] But the shine, this is a weird example.

[1840] There's a billboard chart for everything.

[1841] In 2019, they launched a billboard chart for songwriters.

[1842] The songwriters that had the most percentage of songwriting on the most songs on the chart at the same time.

[1843] And they started a producer's chart.

[1844] And the day it started, I was number one on both charts for five weeks in a row.

[1845] And when you keep being number one, your brain is so dumb.

[1846] You're like, I guess I'm just number one forever now.

[1847] That's cool.

[1848] And I had to very quickly in the middle of that be like, maybe never again.

[1849] And I never thought I would be.

[1850] And here I am.

[1851] I practice that all the time.

[1852] I always joke that you can not really care about who wins the award.

[1853] When they're opening the envelope, your heart's beaten way faster.

[1854] Even if you're going to leap to your feet and applaud for the other person who beats you, human nature is like, I want to be picked.

[1855] Yeah, of course.

[1856] Pick me. See me. Yeah, you want to be seen.

[1857] There's also a weird thing that it does that's like, is my thing bad now.

[1858] Even though you got nominated.

[1859] That's the bizarre thing about the camera awards.

[1860] It's like six losers leave.

[1861] By the end of the night, the room is full of losers.

[1862] Mostly losers.

[1863] Of the best movies.

[1864] 29 winners.

[1865] 29.

[1866] 90 losers.

[1867] Well, the place I was going with the kids thing, and Monica's a more salient example.

[1868] So I had a fantasy of owning a house as beautiful as the one you're at.

[1869] It's beautiful.

[1870] Yeah, but when I pull up to it, I'm grateful for it, but it doesn't give me this feeling I thought having a house this beautiful would give me. But when I drive by Monicas across the street, every time I see it, I could almost cry.

[1871] It actually gives me the feeling I was fantasizing about for myself, but that I can't actually grasp.

[1872] What do you attribute that to?

[1873] Why does it matter so differently to you?

[1874] I can be really happy for her, and I can be very proud of her.

[1875] And maybe if I'm proud of me, I won't be ambitious anymore.

[1876] I don't know what the hiccup is.

[1877] You can see it objectively when it's not you.

[1878] When it's you're like, you're in your own brain and you're chasing something else or there's something else you need or want or trying to get.

[1879] When it's separate from you but still connected, which is what you're saying about the kids.

[1880] When it's your kids who you made, I cannot imagine a better feeling in life.

[1881] Do you want to know an interesting thing just related to this?

[1882] that our parents have always done.

[1883] And Billy and I make fun of them for it a lot.

[1884] Our parents have never, ever told us good job.

[1885] They've never, ever told us they're proud of us, ever.

[1886] Wow.

[1887] Good for them.

[1888] They're keeping it dangling.

[1889] I love you.

[1890] And their feeling is we don't want your relationship to how you feel about your accomplishment to be like, was my parent proud of me for this?

[1891] And then they didn't say they were proud of me that next time.

[1892] And maybe I didn't do a good enough job.

[1893] Were you raised like Rye technique?

[1894] Or this is just on their own?

[1895] It's just their own thing.

[1896] They might have a background on that.

[1897] We did classes in nonviolent communication.

[1898] So we have a lot of like my feelings.

[1899] Yes, a lot of good language.

[1900] Yes, exactly.

[1901] But for my kids, they both do play sporadically, one more than the other.

[1902] And when I see the 10 -year -old get on stage and take a big swing, I'm so proud in a way that I never was for myself.

[1903] It's not like I was up there going, I'm so proud of you.

[1904] You were afraid of this and now you've stood up and done it.

[1905] But I know these little tiny people and they were just little tiny people.

[1906] So, yeah, when I see them.

[1907] do that stuff.

[1908] It is the elation I fantasized about for myself that I can't touch through them I can and I love it.

[1909] It sounds like that's the vehicle seeing Monica's house, seeing your kids succeed in a thing that does bring you all this pride and self -fulfillment.

[1910] Is there a thing that is internal that brings you a lot of pride and self -fulfillment?

[1911] I have a weird current answer to you.

[1912] Like I rock climb a lot now.

[1913] Yes.

[1914] I feel fucking good when I get up to the top of the wall.

[1915] If I have been struggling on the thing and I didn't even get the climb at the last time I was at the gym and I go back and then I send it.

[1916] I feel so good about myself.

[1917] I have that on the motorcycle track.

[1918] I figured you were going to say that.

[1919] Yeah, because again, it's quantifiable.

[1920] How fast was I today?

[1921] I was faster than almost everyone there and I'm older than everyone.

[1922] Yeah, that shit.

[1923] I'll go like, well, that's real.

[1924] The artistic stuff is tricky because...

[1925] Objective.

[1926] And I have imposter syndrome.

[1927] So on some level, anytime I have success in an artistic way, I think, did I fool everyone?

[1928] Is it as good as I wanted it to be?

[1929] Could it ever be as good as you want it to be.

[1930] Nothing weirder than coming off stage, whether you're doing this podcast live or some other thing, and like you had a shitty time, you cannot believe a person who tells you something nice.

[1931] You swat it away immediately.

[1932] If we have a bad show and somebody's like, you were unbelievable.

[1933] Your only response is like, well, now I know you're full of shit.

[1934] To me, it's like, not only was I bad, I'm being pitied.

[1935] I force them to lie to my face.

[1936] Thanks for lying to me. I feel guilty.

[1937] Like, I put this poor person in the situation where they got to come up and lie to me after.

[1938] It's so interesting.

[1939] Yeah, so really measurable things appeal to me. The thing that you weren't good at, that you got good at, couldn't do the skill.

[1940] Now you can do the skill.

[1941] Do you have anything like that, Monagia?

[1942] She had it, and then she retired.

[1943] She hadn't?

[1944] Yeah.

[1945] She couldn't do a flip.

[1946] It's okay.

[1947] I couldn't do a flip, but then I could do flip.

[1948] They were in my way.

[1949] They were so dangling.

[1950] They were scraping the bottom of the sun when you flipped up into the air.

[1951] That's right.

[1952] Challenge.

[1953] I think I feel it when I'm with friends and they have a problem.

[1954] And you solve it.

[1955] And we work through their problem.

[1956] That's when I leave and I'm like, that was a good day.

[1957] How can you not feel good about yourself there, whether it's mediation or just offering a solution that works?

[1958] Yeah, and figuring something out together and by the end, people are better off.

[1959] It feels really good to find somebody's missing parasonglasses or something.

[1960] That's kind of like you said puzzles, figuring out problems.

[1961] I do enjoy that.

[1962] That stuff is nice.

[1963] I want to go back to the Academy Award thing because I'm wondering if these are similar.

[1964] So the thing that we both wrestle with and this thing I'm striving to really incorporate is when you have something you love for us, then it switches to, well, fuck, I don't want to lose it.

[1965] Bizarre transference from building something to then protecting something and being afraid you're going to lose it.

[1966] And the way out of that thus far for me or when I can feel good about it, and I feel like this is kind of what you're saying, which is if it goes away, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[1967] Exactly.

[1968] I feel in those fearful moments that if I lose it, it somehow didn't happen.

[1969] It's weird, though.

[1970] It feels like that.

[1971] Okay, this was my last question.

[1972] Okay.

[1973] And it's weird.

[1974] that I'm getting to know you a little bit, I don't think it's relevant anymore.

[1975] Somehow you're 36, but you're 27.

[1976] 26.

[1977] 26.

[1978] What a dick.

[1979] 26 are dicks.

[1980] That's what they say.

[1981] 26 or dicks.

[1982] Okay.

[1983] So when I was 27, I felt like I could feel 30 approaching.

[1984] And I felt like there was going to be a new decade of my life upon me. I got sober at 29, two months before I turned 30.

[1985] I did start looking at the next decade of my life and starting to just think about what I wanted the life to be.

[1986] I don't know.

[1987] I just feel like 20s.

[1988] You're throwing everything at the wall and some things are sticking.

[1989] You're trying to make a living and define yourself.

[1990] And then you go like, wow, I'm actually in the driver's seat.

[1991] Where are we going?

[1992] Are you feeling that at all?

[1993] I'm so far past all the stuff I thought I'd ever be able to do.

[1994] So that's awesome.

[1995] But scary in a weird way.

[1996] You're like an Olympian in a weird way.

[1997] Yeah, but I really do feel for people who have that kind of body clock of holy shit.

[1998] I'm only going to be the fastest swimmer.

[1999] for another six years, and then it's not even going to be close.

[2000] And that must feel bizarre to sort of have this ability that's better than anyone else that's going to go away from you no matter what.

[2001] I feel like I'll be able to write songs and make art forever, and that's awesome.

[2002] Yeah, I'd really love to have kids.

[2003] If I got told I had a terminal illness, that would be my big, like, that's the thing in my life I didn't get to do.

[2004] What a shame.

[2005] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2006] That's on the horizon, hopefully.

[2007] And do you need Claudia to have kids to make me to explain anything to you guys about...

[2008] No, she's super wants to have this, too.

[2009] I think she just has a feeling.

[2010] I'm sure that whenever we have kids, I'll look back and be like, I'm so glad that you were the person kicking the ball a little further because we're young enough.

[2011] She's like, hey, guess what?

[2012] Big deal on my body for the year we have a kid.

[2013] She has a career and a bunch of things that she's working on.

[2014] I think she just has a feeling of easy for you to say.

[2015] Of course.

[2016] It's not as life altering to you.

[2017] But she really wants to have kids too.

[2018] We're not in disagreement of anything.

[2019] She's also just like, would it kill you to wait two years?

[2020] I'm like, no, it wouldn't at all.

[2021] I'm very glad we waited until we were older.

[2022] How old were you and kids?

[2023] I was 38 and Kristen was 33.

[2024] I think that would be a fun way to start my 30s.

[2025] I was with the gale named Brie for nine years, and our goal was when she hit 30.

[2026] That was when we were going to go.

[2027] And then we broke up right virtually when she had 30.

[2028] And then I was scrambling.

[2029] I'm like, oh, fuck.

[2030] Did you feel panicked?

[2031] Because it seems like you always want to have kids.

[2032] I always wanted to have kids.

[2033] And also I'm like, I need to know someone's quality.

[2034] So I'm like, oh, fuck, I'm 32.

[2035] I'm going to have to date someone for a few years before I really know.

[2036] When I'm dating, I got to flip this whole thing upside down, which is what I did.

[2037] That's not a great pressure.

[2038] I definitely see a lot of my friends get out of long.

[2039] relationships at about 31 and start a very short relationship and get married and have a child.

[2040] And I'm always like, well, they want to have kids.

[2041] And I also, not to besmirch them, we have old parents.

[2042] They had me when they were 40.

[2043] And they had Billy when they were 42 or three.

[2044] So I really want to have kids on the younger side so they have fucking grandparents.

[2045] My grandparents were dead.

[2046] I love them and I want them to be a part of my kids' lives.

[2047] I know.

[2048] I don't want my kids to have kids really early.

[2049] But at the same time, if they don't, I don't know that I'll meet them.

[2050] Yeah, you want to meet them.

[2051] No, there's going to be longevity pills.

[2052] We're all living up to 200.

[2053] We can all relax.

[2054] Everyone can take a breath.

[2055] What are you smoking?

[2056] For sure, and for certain, we're living to 200.

[2057] So don't worry.

[2058] Monica, so contrary to all information I've seen about the ninth hottest month in a row on record.

[2059] We'll be lucky if our kids live to 30.

[2060] Who's Bill?

[2061] Bill, our friend Bill Gates.

[2062] Oh, Bill Gates.

[2063] We have a friend Bill Gates.

[2064] I will say he's an exception to that.

[2065] He didn't say that we're going to live just 200.

[2066] I need to be very clear about that.

[2067] Well, he says there's interesting science in the longevity space, but he's not co -stealthy.

[2068] You're very promising.

[2069] Yeah, I mean, you wouldn't want to live longer than any of your friends, though.

[2070] I'm getting them those pills.

[2071] Don't worry.

[2072] At the gas station.

[2073] I got money.

[2074] Yeah, over the pills and the gas station.

[2075] I've been money on this show.

[2076] TikTok.

[2077] Have you read Titan by chance?

[2078] I haven't read Titan.

[2079] I couldn't recommend it more.

[2080] It's the biography of John D. Rockefeller.

[2081] Cool.

[2082] It's my favorite biography I've ever read.

[2083] I've read a lot of biography.

[2084] I'm a biography guy.

[2085] Add Titan.

[2086] It's Ron Chernnell's best book.

[2087] What's your favorite biography?

[2088] Have you read acid for the children?

[2089] by Flea?

[2090] No. It's fucking awesome.

[2091] The whole book is up until the day the Pepper starts.

[2092] It's just his insane childhood and adolescence.

[2093] And he's a beautiful author.

[2094] I can't wait.

[2095] It's great.

[2096] Malcolm Gladwell did a really cool thing with them.

[2097] Yes.

[2098] Well, he has that whole thing with Rick Rubin.

[2099] He's your brother in podcasting Malcolm Gladwell.

[2100] We love Malcolm.

[2101] I saw him at Blue Bottle recently.

[2102] Actually, not recently, but I saw him in blue bottle.

[2103] I was like he's just like us.

[2104] When he's in town, he sides it a bit, which I think is cool.

[2105] He likes all time.

[2106] Shout out.

[2107] Yeah.

[2108] The best restaurant.

[2109] So, so excited about that cookbook.

[2110] I got a sneak peek at the cookbook.

[2111] I've ordered it.

[2112] I'm so excited.

[2113] It's so cool.

[2114] And the chocolate cake recipes in there.

[2115] I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say that.

[2116] We almost moved to Laughlin a couple years ago.

[2117] You did.

[2118] Why didn't you?

[2119] Then you and I could see each other.

[2120] Then we trick or treat or whatever.

[2121] It'd be cute.

[2122] Yes, you could be on the hay ride.

[2123] I'm a big like, Arc Digest fucker.

[2124] I love that thing.

[2125] Oh, yeah.

[2126] Me too.

[2127] So.

[2128] We love Claudia, but again, that's another great thing.

[2129] No. I think what my big takeaway from this is that you'd love Claudia.

[2130] Yeah.

[2131] I think that's right.

[2132] That is right.

[2133] Let's go to all time.

[2134] My bad habit is just anytime I meet someone that I like and I like monocom.

[2135] I know.

[2136] Yeah, this would be a fun hang.

[2137] It is a bad habit because most of them are in relationships and it makes everyone uncomfortable.

[2138] Yeah, it doesn't make me a real.

[2139] I think it's just nice.

[2140] But I also have a best friend who I do that with.

[2141] Okay.

[2142] Or then I'm like, what about him?

[2143] And they're like, you're a best friend?

[2144] I'm like, yeah, he's amazing, right?

[2145] I were just always selling my friend to just be housed out.

[2146] I'm assuming you're going to now live in the biggest house you've ever lived in.

[2147] Yeah.

[2148] What are you going to do with the room that you've never had?

[2149] What's the, oh my God, I get to do this.

[2150] I was really excited when I got to have, like, a gym.

[2151] Oh, you know what's unfortunate?

[2152] I do have that.

[2153] I have a fantasy.

[2154] There's a room that I've been planning on having in my house my whole life.

[2155] I don't have it.

[2156] What's wrong with you?

[2157] I know.

[2158] I'm just now realizing it.

[2159] That's sad.

[2160] What was your room?

[2161] Gift -rapping room.

[2162] Weirdly enough, Kristen also wanted a gift -wrapping room.

[2163] I think it's a very...

[2164] I want them all on rolls and a whole area for bags and then a whole table with rules.

[2165] for the cutting, special scissors.

[2166] I want that.

[2167] Ribbon dolls everywhere.

[2168] But, like, sexy and hot.

[2169] Not grandma.

[2170] You mean sexy and hot?

[2171] Just it'll be sexy.

[2172] She only wraps present in lingerie.

[2173] Yeah, exactly.

[2174] Anyway, I forgot to do that.

[2175] I don't mean to yuck your yum.

[2176] Go ahead.

[2177] I'd never be in that room.

[2178] Not as your friend.

[2179] I would never be in that room because I don't like to give gifts.

[2180] Oh, then we're not the same.

[2181] Is Claudia like to give gifts?

[2182] Yeah, yeah.

[2183] She's thoughtful.

[2184] But it's not my love language.

[2185] A gift.

[2186] To me means nothing.

[2187] Even if it's so thoughtful?

[2188] No. If it's some kind of super bespoke.

[2189] Oh, it would be.

[2190] I would be like, oh, that's very thoughtful.

[2191] I mainly just feel self -conscious about all the time they spent.

[2192] Really?

[2193] It's not meaningful to me. You're a little codependent.

[2194] What?

[2195] I don't you think it's a little codependent to feel like, oh, no, you spent so much time.

[2196] That's how I feel about it.

[2197] It is coming from codependency on my end, but I don't know that that has to be the root of it.

[2198] I just don't.

[2199] You're like, I don't love shit.

[2200] I want less stuff.

[2201] Yes, you don't love shit, and you're like, God, this person put so much effort into this.

[2202] Now I have to put it on a thing.

[2203] And then I will want to throw it away next week, and I never can.

[2204] It's a big obligation now.

[2205] Yeah, that's my gift -giving issue is like, what would this person like?

[2206] And then I'm like, well, what would I like?

[2207] Nothing.

[2208] That's my big challenge.

[2209] So what is your love language?

[2210] Long, fun conversation.

[2211] I want to be in a circle of people laughing as hard as I have ever laughed and occasionally adding something that cracks everybody out.

[2212] That's like my paradise.

[2213] Well, you accomplish that in this.

[2214] last couple hours.

[2215] Numerous Numerous times.

[2216] Nice.

[2217] What's your sign?

[2218] Capricorn.

[2219] How did you know?

[2220] Are you really?

[2221] I'm not a Capricorn.

[2222] Do you read Adam Grant?

[2223] Do you read?

[2224] So classic, Adam Grant.

[2225] Yeah, did you read his thing?

[2226] He sent it to me and he said, a lot of people told me to send this to you.

[2227] He sent it to me and then I said, I dare you to send this to Monica.

[2228] That is the best thing to do to it.

[2229] What a Leo.

[2230] It's a mean thing.

[2231] But it's the best thing to do to somebody who is curious is go, guess.

[2232] And they guess.

[2233] And you go, wait a minute.

[2234] That's crazy.

[2235] And they're so proud.

[2236] And then you go, I'm not even that sign.

[2237] Especially a Virgo, me. I could take a lot of pride in getting things right.

[2238] It's pretty exciting.

[2239] Every time I look up Leo traits, I'm like, fuck, those are all me. This was in Adam's article.

[2240] They've done a study of 136 ,000 people, and they give them the wrong sign.

[2241] And they all identify.

[2242] They all identify.

[2243] One study.

[2244] One study.

[2245] Of a hundred and 36.

[2246] You're the one all about, you're the one all about meta.

[2247] I am about metadata.

[2248] Isn't the other thing, not to like just be contrary, but isn't the other thing that our lunar calendars are so skewed that everyone who's Leo is actually a cancer and everyone who's a cancer, that it's changed so many times.

[2249] It's like we've been astrology gerrymandered.

[2250] We've been redistricted.

[2251] I think the explanation is so the lunar calendar is 360 days long and the solar calendar is 365 and a quarter days.

[2252] So over time since it's been created, every five years it changes.

[2253] That's significant.

[2254] The other one that no one's going to like to hear is a common one.

[2255] This is one that I've almost even given credit to, which is, well, the moon has tremendous power over the ocean.

[2256] It's creating the tides.

[2257] And so there was a study about this.

[2258] And the amount of force that the moon exerts on your body and the water in your body is one seven thousandth of the force that a pillow on your face exerts.

[2259] Pillow on my face exerts a lot of force, though.

[2260] That's not nothing.

[2261] It's not a feather on my skin.

[2262] But one seven thousandth of that.

[2263] Sure.

[2264] It's probably not changing your brain chemistry.

[2265] I guess I just think we're so molecular that it might just be more distributed.

[2266] Okay, so you're still in the gravitational pole.

[2267] Yeah, we like to do this out of 10.

[2268] On what the moon?

[2269] On astrology.

[2270] Like, how much do you think?

[2271] It's the stupidest thing.

[2272] Nothing is relevant.

[2273] 10 is I plan my whole life off my chart.

[2274] I definitely plan none of my life on it.

[2275] But I don't have much interest in like someone like you who I think is very intelligent.

[2276] I'm not like, you know what I mean?

[2277] Now she's an idiot.

[2278] Why would this thing make somebody that's smart not be smart?

[2279] That's nice.

[2280] I also want to say before we get into Adam Grant, before I talk about this ad nauseum once I read the article.

[2281] Oh, you haven't read it yet?

[2282] No, I'm taking my time.

[2283] I believe in it also with the grain of salt.

[2284] I find it so fun.

[2285] And I think it's funny when it matches up.

[2286] It's kind of your hobby.

[2287] It's just a fun thing.

[2288] And I have to say, I think most people who quote believe in it, not all, there's extremes, but they also do it because it's fun.

[2289] And why not?

[2290] And this makes sense.

[2291] And that's so funny.

[2292] And you're so this.

[2293] So it kind of is like, why are you?

[2294] Spending energy.

[2295] Well, his take on it is, it can be harmful.

[2296] I don't have a position on it.

[2297] I'm going to read it.

[2298] I've seen it be a platform for prejudice.

[2299] Really?

[2300] Oh, my God.

[2301] He's a Gemini.

[2302] I've seen, like, flat out dismissal of a person.

[2303] You thought I was talking about real prejudice?

[2304] No, I'm just talking about, like, the idea that that's a deal breaker to somebody is, like, pretty crazy.

[2305] That's crazy.

[2306] Or that you would explain the failure of your relationship on that is a little dangerous.

[2307] I think you've got some more things to look at.

[2308] I agree.

[2309] That's very Capricorn of you to say.

[2310] Okay, now I'm in.

[2311] All right.

[2312] Well, Phineas, this has been a blast.

[2313] I want to bump into you in our neighborhood.

[2314] Let's do it.

[2315] Monica, you'll let me know his schedule.

[2316] Yes, well, now we know each other.

[2317] If she ever has headphones, jump out of a bush at her.

[2318] This is an audio format.

[2319] I'm sort of like, I think that's Monica.

[2320] I know, I know.

[2321] I've seen some pictures of her.

[2322] And also, I'm not at the stage of my life where I'm like, she definitely knows who I am.

[2323] I would just be coming here to you as a fan.

[2324] And if I'm just being a fan, then I don't want to interrupt your walk where you're listening to music.

[2325] We're friends now.

[2326] She has played it cool, but Monica is a super fan of Phineas.

[2327] She has talked about you so much.

[2328] Oh, much over the last six years.

[2329] Oh, man, that's so kind.

[2330] I have.

[2331] I am a huge fan.

[2332] Oh, I haven't told you guys this.

[2333] When Claudia and I went on our second date ever within the first 20 minutes, I was like, oh, I listened to that podcast, Armchair Expert.

[2334] I remember she said, you're talking dirty to me right now about listening to Armchair expert.

[2335] Oh, Claudia.

[2336] And it was like a big early facet of our relationship.

[2337] We'd be brushing our teeth at her apartment or my house and, like, listening to the podcast.

[2338] So it's very lovely to be here.

[2339] It's hard to comprehend.

[2340] One of my stocking stuffers, our first Christmas, was like that cup.

[2341] No, the left -handed mug.

[2342] Did you buy the $2 ,000?

[2343] Not the left -hand.

[2344] Just the mug.

[2345] You had a $2 ,000 one?

[2346] Well, we had it as a joke because the mugs came wrong and we had some finite amount of them, finis amount of them.

[2347] And we said, let's put them on the website for $2 ,000 as a joke.

[2348] And lo and behold, some people bought them.

[2349] And then we were like, we cannot take $2 ,000 from armcheries.

[2350] So it became a thing where when someone bought them, we would call them and say, who do you want us to donate this?

[2351] that's so cool that in itself became a little laborious hopefully they're not even on the website yeah you took them all yeah yeah yeah yeah available phineas this was a blast i really really like this i really like this i don't understand how you're 26 maybe i'll process that by the time we do the fact check there's a sim thing happening where are you out on sim i keep trying to end this and then i ask you another question the society simulation it feels like one of those things that if it's true it changes nothing then maybe it's 100 % true yes you're going to proceed through life regardless it's going to be identical In a weird way, I think if you're as lucky as you were or as lucky as the two of us are.

[2352] It's almost an act of humility, I think, because it's like, no one really deserves this level of good luck and fortune.

[2353] That makes me a little suspicious about.

[2354] I'm a big luck guy.

[2355] It's much less that I'm talented or that I'm hardworking.

[2356] I just got born lucky.

[2357] And when good things happen, I'm like, well, I'm just lucky.

[2358] Good things keep happening to me. I'm a lucky guy.

[2359] More so than like random luck.

[2360] Yeah, as your identity, you're lucky.

[2361] Who wouldn't want that to be their identity?

[2362] Which in a weird way that makes you optimistic.

[2363] too.

[2364] Also makes you humble, which is likable.

[2365] And then I have, like, bad things happen.

[2366] This is now, like, two years ago, and I'll keep it brief because I know we're spilling in.

[2367] Rob's going to pee his pants.

[2368] But I got in this crazy bike accident on those Phil's Boulevard a couple years ago and broke a bunch of bones.

[2369] It was so shitty.

[2370] But I still was lucky I didn't get a head injury.

[2371] I think if you frame it that way, you're like, obviously stupid that I got in this accident, but lucked out that I don't have permanent brain damage.

[2372] Yeah, yeah.

[2373] Let's end on brain damage.

[2374] Sure.

[2375] Monica, I love you.

[2376] Love you.

[2377] Finiance, guys.

[2378] Thank you.

[2379] All time.

[2380] Yes.

[2381] And I hope we get to do this again.

[2382] Yeah, man. Stay tuned to hear Miss Monica correct all the facts that were wrong.

[2383] That's okay, though.

[2384] We all make mistakes.

[2385] In a total eclipse, there's a very small period of time.

[2386] You can look at it.

[2387] Right at it.

[2388] Boom.

[2389] Well, I guess the issue is if you look at it and your eyes dialate because it's covered.

[2390] Right.

[2391] Which is lighting way more of it in.

[2392] Yeah.

[2393] So six half dozen.

[2394] Do you look at it partial or are you look at it?

[2395] We're obviously talking about the eclipse.

[2396] The solar eclipse of the sun.

[2397] Yeah.

[2398] Total eclipse of the heart.

[2399] Solar eclipse of the sun.

[2400] Partial eclipse of the day.

[2401] And what's a lunar eclipse?

[2402] I know.

[2403] I looked all this up like a month ago and I can't retain it.

[2404] Yeah, I cannot retain.

[2405] So the eclipse was an hour ago, I guess.

[2406] I missed it completely.

[2407] I mean, what's annoying is I knew it.

[2408] You've been talking about it a lot leading up to it.

[2409] And I bought the glasses.

[2410] Oh, fuck.

[2411] Well, I would be really bummed if I had bought the glasses and didn't it.

[2412] Because I was out there, this is what the armcherry had missed.

[2413] I set up my camera to do a time lapse photo hoping that that's how I would look at it.

[2414] Because, of course, I want to look at it.

[2415] Yeah.

[2416] And I'm so tempted.

[2417] You know me?

[2418] I'm a rule breaker.

[2419] I know.

[2420] Well, I was like, I don't accept that I'm not going to be able to see it.

[2421] So how can I see it without damaging my eyes?

[2422] Oh, time lapse.

[2423] Yeah.

[2424] And I go out there and I fine -tuned my camera.

[2425] I've got it leaned perfectly.

[2426] I had to lay on the ground, you know, to get it.

[2427] And then I'm trying to predict the arc of the sun because it's supposed to be, it was supposed to start at 10 .06, just come into whatever, a smidgen.

[2428] Right.

[2429] And then, I would have guessed, dissipate for a while.

[2430] Set up the camera, did time lapse, went upstairs, been researching for two hours, went outside, very excited.

[2431] Picked up my phone thinking it would still be time lapsing.

[2432] It was dark.

[2433] It shut off.

[2434] The phone did not stand the test of time.

[2435] I guess the trick is I knew it was pointed directly at the start.

[2436] sun, which it might overheat.

[2437] But I had covered most of the body of the camera, just left the lenses exposed.

[2438] But whatever.

[2439] This is such a long story.

[2440] I didn't get it.

[2441] I didn't get it.

[2442] That's the bottom point.

[2443] You can watch a video online.

[2444] Oh, that's a good idea.

[2445] Yeah, it's not the same.

[2446] Will it be ours, though?

[2447] No. I'm sure you can find one.

[2448] Yeah, I'm sure we could find one.

[2449] Someone in L .A. did it right?

[2450] Well, you type in your address.

[2451] Oh, and time lapse.

[2452] Time lapse.

[2453] And my name and my Social Security number.

[2454] And you'll get to watch it.

[2455] I have friends who went to it.

[2456] So I was just doing something very funny downstairs.

[2457] Well, you were listening to Screamo.

[2458] It sounded like.

[2459] No, that was Sheney O 'Connor, which maybe I guess is the original screamo, you could argue.

[2460] Very emotional, lots of screaming.

[2461] Sure.

[2462] I just started that up when this other thing ended, which was a list of things to do today and running out time.

[2463] So I'm like, all right, I got to change my flight and my hotel reservation for a trip.

[2464] And so I'm just going to call American Express travel and do it that.

[2465] way.

[2466] But I also have to work out.

[2467] And so I put my earbuds in, which I never use.

[2468] Maybe the only first time I've ever used those to chat on the phone.

[2469] Okay.

[2470] I always put my phone right up to my ear.

[2471] Sure.

[2472] Traditional.

[2473] Point is, I get on with a very helpful person.

[2474] And I'm doing squats, deadlifts, cleans, and bench press.

[2475] Wow.

[2476] In the middle of them.

[2477] Today's heavy day.

[2478] Okay.

[2479] While chatting and trying not to let them know, I'm in the middle of squatting.

[2480] Oh my God.

[2481] So it would be like, okay, now I'm going to look.

[2482] Let me just see what flights are available.

[2483] And I go, okay, that's my cue.

[2484] She's going to be busy for at least 12 reps of this squats.

[2485] Oh.

[2486] But it's the - Then do you mute it?

[2487] Like, are you trying to?

[2488] No, because I've got the earbuds in and I'm at the squat rack.

[2489] The phone is on the other side of the room.

[2490] I see.

[2491] Okay.

[2492] You follow me. And - There's probably a way, sometimes on these.

[2493] Well, I got nervous to that.

[2494] Yes, I got really paranoid that I was, because I would push them into my ears really hard before I lay down to through the bench because I was like, would they fall out of my ears?

[2495] And then I thought, yeah, that could hang up on accident by double -clicking or something.

[2496] Yep.

[2497] You got to be careful.

[2498] All this is to say I did my whole workout dead quiet without any elevated breathing even.

[2499] Because I didn't want her to hear this like, like, yeah, I'm trying to leave now on the 27th.

[2500] Yeah.

[2501] God knows what she would have thought.

[2502] And for the listener, you're a loud work outer.

[2503] Well, I go hard, Monica.

[2504] I think that's what.

[2505] No, I'm not.

[2506] It's not a bad thing.

[2507] It's just, it is loud.

[2508] Say more.

[2509] Say more.

[2510] You make lots of sound.

[2511] Because you're up here you're saying.

[2512] Yeah, I hear it.

[2513] We hear it all the time.

[2514] Unsinked and flightless bird.

[2515] Yeah.

[2516] Okay.

[2517] Does it ever make the episode?

[2518] It's not ever audible in a. I don't think, I don't think in the final edit you can hear it, no. But I can hear it.

[2519] You can hear it.

[2520] And sometimes I can hear it when I'm walking by.

[2521] Oh.

[2522] Now, I do imagine you can hear the weights dropping on the ground.

[2523] when you guys are recording.

[2524] Mm -hmm.

[2525] It gets edited out in post.

[2526] Okay.

[2527] We can hear everything.

[2528] We can hear all your songs.

[2529] Well, okay.

[2530] Yeah, that makes sense.

[2531] But you can hear a lot of grunts.

[2532] Lots of grunts.

[2533] Oh, my God.

[2534] More than I guess I was new about it.

[2535] You know, I don't want you to get self -conscious about it because.

[2536] I don't know how I would go back now.

[2537] You asked for you said I want to talk about it more.

[2538] Yeah, yeah.

[2539] Well, I want the full picture of.

[2540] It's great.

[2541] Okay.

[2542] It's just full exertion.

[2543] Would you mimic what it sounds like?

[2544] I'll close my eyes.

[2545] That's one.

[2546] Yeah, so, okay, that's, that was my guess.

[2547] That's a clearing of.

[2548] You guys are conflating some things.

[2549] No, I know you.

[2550] I know you hear me clearing my throat down there.

[2551] That I know.

[2552] That's different.

[2553] Yeah, that is white noise at this point.

[2554] Yeah, that does see now the coughing and clearing my throat does not come as a surprise.

[2555] Yeah.

[2556] No, but there's actual grunts.

[2557] Even just now when I was walking by to come up here, you know, scream -o, and then there's lots of sounds coming from you, mainly clearing, though.

[2558] Well, I am coming out of a pretty bad cold worsted my year.

[2559] You always clear.

[2560] Oh, yeah.

[2561] I like it.

[2562] Well.

[2563] I think it's fun.

[2564] I mean, I just can't not do it.

[2565] At night, there's a Swedish word for it.

[2566] I don't know what it is, but Kristen learned it.

[2567] And it's where you get your room really, really cold before you go to sleep.

[2568] Okay.

[2569] Okay.

[2570] Fun word.

[2571] I don't know what it is.

[2572] So we've been in a habit of leaving the doors open in the bedroom at night, so it gets really cold.

[2573] Okay.

[2574] Before bed.

[2575] And the doors outside.

[2576] To the balcony.

[2577] Right.

[2578] Okay.

[2579] I am going at it sometimes before bed.

[2580] You know, uh, uh, uh, hell, help.

[2581] Yeah.

[2582] And I was like, fucking, the poor neighbors, like, they 100 % hear that because I'm up on the second.

[2583] story with the doors wide open and it's nighttime.

[2584] Yeah.

[2585] I bet you can hear it throughout the whole fucking neighborhood.

[2586] Sure, probably.

[2587] I wish I could get a lung transplant.

[2588] Get some normal lungs.

[2589] No, it's part of you who you are.

[2590] Yeah, it's...

[2591] It would be weird if you were, like, quiet.

[2592] I think it's a little beau.

[2593] It's my mom.

[2594] I thought you said your dad did stuff like that.

[2595] No, my Papa Bob, he had a whole racket going on, but he was more like he did a lot of that with nasal EMT stuff.

[2596] My mother's more chess.

[2597] Oh, right.

[2598] And to be fair, I have both.

[2599] Pupaba, Bob, and.

[2600] Yeah, you have a lot going on.

[2601] It's great.

[2602] Very busy.

[2603] I do wonder how many calories a day I probably burn just by coughing.

[2604] That's cool.

[2605] It's probably, like, got a little bit of a benefit I don't know about.

[2606] Then maybe I'll try it.

[2607] Anyways, working out talking to the lady was really kind of funny.

[2608] That is funny.

[2609] And new, because you do make a lot of noise.

[2610] So it must have felt weird.

[2611] The second I hung up with her, it was like, off to the races.

[2612] That's probably what you were.

[2613] You're hearing and you heard this.

[2614] Yes, yes, yes.

[2615] What an interesting experience last night in bed.

[2616] I can't remember exactly what I was doing.

[2617] But I felt, I didn't even fall.

[2618] I leaned into some foliage.

[2619] And I felt a stab in the back of my arm.

[2620] And it hurt.

[2621] And it was like the nub of a branch of something.

[2622] But I didn't think too much more of it.

[2623] It hurt, but I thought it just punctured it.

[2624] laying in bed last night and I just kind of graze my arm in a chunk of tree like the size of probably a pencil eraser but jagged.

[2625] Oh.

[2626] Just fell out of my arm.

[2627] That hadn't been in there for a few days.

[2628] It was like a bad, weird splinter.

[2629] Yes, but like a chunk.

[2630] And it did.

[2631] My body expelled it, which is so comforting.

[2632] But I did feel, I think there's still a little bit in there.

[2633] But now I'm really reassured that your body does just spit that stuff out.

[2634] Are you sure it wasn't just sticking out the whole time?

[2635] No, because I had rubbed my hand across it.

[2636] Am I sure?

[2637] Am I sure?

[2638] I rub my hand?

[2639] Yes.

[2640] And I just felt like, ow.

[2641] But I think it was inside and they're broken off.

[2642] But over the course of a couple days, it just, it just popped it out.

[2643] That's so weird.

[2644] That can't be.

[2645] I know.

[2646] How can that be that that your body just pushes it out?

[2647] That's what your body does.

[2648] You know that.

[2649] I'm not telling you anything new?

[2650] I don't, I don't know if I believe it.

[2651] That your body expels things in or anything?

[2652] Well, obviously poops.

[2653] No, even splinters, if you don't get them out, it does push them out.

[2654] I have a piece of lead pencil in my fingertip from when I was like 11.

[2655] I know we all think we have that.

[2656] No, I can see it.

[2657] I know.

[2658] I think something else happens because I had that forever too, and that was my same story.

[2659] Now, I know you can see it.

[2660] Yeah.

[2661] But if you dig your fingernail down there, you can't feel it, can you?

[2662] It's pretty deep.

[2663] See, that's your Your explanation.

[2664] No, it's probably just punctured.

[2665] Yeah.

[2666] I mean, it's punctured.

[2667] And the ink gets in there.

[2668] I can show you it.

[2669] Many people have it, and I had it forever too.

[2670] I can't remember where it went.

[2671] But I had the same conclusion as you and that.

[2672] At some point, I'm like, no, I think it's just a tattoo.

[2673] Like, you got punctured with some ink or something.

[2674] And then just like a normal tattoo, it just stays in there.

[2675] And it looks like, go ahead.

[2676] I just remember getting stabbed by an accident.

[2677] We'll tell us more.

[2678] What happened?

[2679] My mom and I accidentally, I went to, like, grab pencils.

[2680] from her.

[2681] Oh, okay.

[2682] And it stabbed me like pretty deep in my finger and broke off.

[2683] And it broke off.

[2684] And your mother didn't dig in there with a needle or anything?

[2685] I mean, I pulled out what I could.

[2686] I don't know.

[2687] I don't know if I think that the graphite's in there.

[2688] I mean, I hope not.

[2689] I look at it all the time.

[2690] Yeah, yeah.

[2691] I know.

[2692] I know exactly.

[2693] Like I can, if I were a great artist, I could draw what it looks like without looking at it.

[2694] Because I had it and then a lot of people I know have it.

[2695] I mean, you would be sick if it really was in there like you'd be lead poisoned no no there's nothing poisonous in a pencil pencil lead it's not lead it's graphite but why do they say that well no i mean i know that's right but that can't be good for your body graphite yeah it's pretty good for your body no i don't know what it is for your body but i don't i don't think it's toxic for your body all right well to do more exploration okay speaking of the neighborhood tell me tell me This is for Phineas.

[2696] Oh, wonderful.

[2697] People have been getting impatient, and I understand why.

[2698] Me too.

[2699] Yeah, the comments is littered with, what the fuck happened to Phineas, Easter egg.

[2700] Yeah.

[2701] Sometimes our Easter eggs, it's a while before the payoff.

[2702] And this is why we wisely do not say who's going to be on, because, of course, it just creates anxiety for the listener who's excited.

[2703] I know, but I am going to post an Easter egg soon of something.

[2704] Oh, okay.

[2705] All right.

[2706] You want to tell me and then cut it out?

[2707] Oh, well, okay.

[2708] You might as well just...

[2709] That's the point.

[2710] What?

[2711] That's fun for people.

[2712] I mean, it's fun to let people in a little bit.

[2713] Yeah.

[2714] Especially when it's someone like that.

[2715] Okay.

[2716] He mentioned Laird Hamilton.

[2717] I don't know who that is.

[2718] Oh, you don't?

[2719] No, I don't.

[2720] But now I do.

[2721] because I looked him up.

[2722] He's a surfer.

[2723] I strongly recommend riding giants.

[2724] Oh, is that a movie?

[2725] It's one of the most incredible documentaries ever, and that's where I became aware of Laird Hamilton.

[2726] Because he was never like, he didn't like compete against Kelly Slater or any of that stuff.

[2727] He was just a lone wolf trying to ride the biggest waves in the world.

[2728] And I believe invented the tow -in surfing, where there's a jet ski that has to tow you on to the face of this 30 -floor wave.

[2729] Oh, wow.

[2730] Yeah, and it's wild.

[2731] And his personal story is really sweet and incredible.

[2732] Oh, wow.

[2733] Yeah, he's a neat dude.

[2734] And, of course, married to Gabriel Reese.

[2735] Right.

[2736] I did see that on Wikipedia.

[2737] What an athletic family.

[2738] Okay, is E -Enertainment still an outlet?

[2739] Yeah.

[2740] E -News.

[2741] E -News.

[2742] E -online.

[2743] Still banging it out there.

[2744] Who did the Chinatown score?

[2745] William Goldman.

[2746] No. Do you want to keep guessing?

[2747] Do you want to keep interrupting me?

[2748] No, you're right about gold.

[2749] You're right about gold.

[2750] Yeah.

[2751] What is it?

[2752] Jerry Goldsmith.

[2753] Jerry Goldsmith.

[2754] Yeah.

[2755] Do you think you were to get gotten it?

[2756] No. Although now that you say Jerry Goldsmith, I'm like, yes, of course.

[2757] That's what it is.

[2758] Jerry Goldsmith.

[2759] Oh.

[2760] Tell me. I want to tell people what happened on.

[2761] Friday.

[2762] The connections was wine -based.

[2763] Ah, yes.

[2764] And I didn't get it.

[2765] And you took it pretty hard.

[2766] Really bad.

[2767] Took it to heart.

[2768] My identity was shattered.

[2769] What were the four words?

[2770] Dry.

[2771] Sweet, dry, not fruity, dry sweet, full.

[2772] These are all like.

[2773] Like so generic.

[2774] And something else.

[2775] And I got very stuck on it being personality type slash senses of humor.

[2776] So I was like, because one of the words was ironic.

[2777] So it was like it's definitely dry, sweet, ironic and something.

[2778] Yes.

[2779] And fruity.

[2780] Yeah.

[2781] Tannity.

[2782] Tynity.

[2783] And you didn't miss that.

[2784] No, no. That would have been too obvious.

[2785] This was just like words to describe wine.

[2786] But I didn't, like, I didn't get it.

[2787] didn't get it at all.

[2788] You know, I lost connections that day.

[2789] Yeah.

[2790] And, and of course, two people texted me, like, did you play connections today?

[2791] Yeah.

[2792] Because they knew I would be excited by the wine thing.

[2793] Yeah, yeah.

[2794] Then I had to say it over and over again.

[2795] I didn't get it.

[2796] Ugh, I know.

[2797] It's rough.

[2798] But I didn't get it today.

[2799] I know.

[2800] Today you had a hard time.

[2801] Everyone, a lot of people had a hard time.

[2802] I mean, I made mistakes.

[2803] But I knew, and this is, this This is like a very bad part of my personality.

[2804] I blew two guesses on the first one.

[2805] Yeah.

[2806] And then I was like, odds are I'm probably not going to get it.

[2807] So I'm not going to take any time.

[2808] No, I just started going, I don't fucking care.

[2809] And I'm going to pick fast.

[2810] Okay.

[2811] So this I do think is telling of people's personalities.

[2812] Like most people would have maybe really hunkered down after they got those.

[2813] And then I was like, well, it's not perfect.

[2814] So that sucks.

[2815] And then beyond one, I don't even care.

[2816] So now I'm just going to like guess.

[2817] because I don't even spending more time on this one I'm mad at.

[2818] Wow.

[2819] I mean, I have also a bad habit in these.

[2820] What's yours?

[2821] If I'm, if a mistake happens, it like, you know, does this stupid thing where it, like, jiggles.

[2822] Oh, fucking, man. Yeah.

[2823] Yeah.

[2824] And when that, like, something visceral happens in my body, and I get very scared of that happening again.

[2825] It's like, that can't happen again.

[2826] Okay.

[2827] So I get panicked, and I feel.

[2828] like the pressure gets so high.

[2829] And so then I'm trying to just sort of figure it all out without making any guesses.

[2830] Because you're arrested with fear.

[2831] Yeah.

[2832] And I go the, yeah, my reaction is the complete opposite.

[2833] I just get brazen once I've made some mistakes.

[2834] Because I'm like, like, to me, you're only doing it for one thing, perfection.

[2835] And everything shy of perfection, this doesn't matter.

[2836] Oh, my God.

[2837] I don't have that, I'm not feeling other people that way.

[2838] But for me, I'm trying to get it perfect.

[2839] And once I make one mistake, it's like, well, the whole point of that is now over.

[2840] Well, that's interesting.

[2841] I mean, obviously perfection is ideal.

[2842] It's like there's first, everything, it's first place or last place.

[2843] What are they saying?

[2844] It's all or nothing.

[2845] Second place is the same as last place.

[2846] Oh, yeah.

[2847] Silver.

[2848] Yeah, it's just like, there's only one winner.

[2849] But I disagree.

[2850] Getting it all is great.

[2851] But on the ones that are hard, hard, like today, in one that.

[2852] that's objectively hard, if I get it and other people aren't getting it, I still feel like that's a win.

[2853] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2854] That's the whole.

[2855] Deanna, Wina.

[2856] Wina.

[2857] Yeah.

[2858] But God bless you.

[2859] Thank you, for the service.

[2860] Thank you.

[2861] I panicked the other day that they're not paying her enough.

[2862] Have you had that thought?

[2863] No. I haven't thought that at all.

[2864] Oh my God.

[2865] Yeah.

[2866] I'm like, I bet they're under pain her and she's going to walk and where will we be without this game?

[2867] No, they'll hire someone else.

[2868] Oh my God.

[2869] You You think she's replaceable?

[2870] No, I love her, but I am mad at her a lot.

[2871] Of course.

[2872] She's a temptress and an evil seductress and a whatever thing.

[2873] I mean, sexy bitch.

[2874] Yeah, sexy bitch.

[2875] Tsunami between the sheets.

[2876] Who is she?

[2877] I wonder.

[2878] I don't want to know.

[2879] Yeah.

[2880] Like, I don't ever want to know where her face looks like.

[2881] It's probably a large man somewhere.

[2882] No, it's an Asian woman.

[2883] Well, that's what the name suggests.

[2884] I know, but it could be like a big white guy driving a semi -truck across the country thinking of these things.

[2885] It's so obviously an Asian woman.

[2886] Oh, wow.

[2887] You are allowed to say that.

[2888] Well, first of all, it's so obvious because her name reflects that.

[2889] It would be like, I mean, look, you're right, anything's possible.

[2890] But it would be like if someone's name was Ravi Patel.

[2891] Right.

[2892] And they were Slavic.

[2893] Exactly.

[2894] Yeah, a big Polish man. We can make some assumption.

[2895] But this person may know that there are many people on any given day.

[2896] who their day's been ruined by him or her.

[2897] And they were smart enough to throw you off the sense.

[2898] They're like, I'm going to pick a female Asian name.

[2899] But that's really bad.

[2900] And that way no one will come from, like, yes.

[2901] Like, because you have to understand that's almost like a meter monitor.

[2902] What do you say?

[2903] I used to say meter made.

[2904] Oh, you're allowed to say that too, but I can't say that.

[2905] But you know what I'm saying?

[2906] Wait, we're not allowed to say that.

[2907] I can't imagine you are.

[2908] Meeter Maid?

[2909] What do they call?

[2910] Well, first of all, it implies it's all women, right?

[2911] You're not going to call them male parking.

[2912] When maids were allowed?

[2913] Yeah.

[2914] You wouldn't call a male.

[2915] If they were a male, you should.

[2916] You call them a custodian.

[2917] I'm teasing.

[2918] I don't know.

[2919] Listen, I can't imagine you're allowed to say meter maid anyway.

[2920] Parking.

[2921] Parking attendant.

[2922] Parking enforcer.

[2923] Okay.

[2924] Civil enforcement officer, parking enforcement officer.

[2925] That person is, I've already said it on here in the past.

[2926] I have the most amount of compassion for the parking enforcement because every single person they interact with is miserable to see them.

[2927] I mean, I don't know what the suicide.

[2928] I just, that's a job.

[2929] Well, that's what they say about Dennis, right?

[2930] The suicide rate is really high.

[2931] Part of it is the tedium of it in the confined space they work within and also that people are afraid to see them and they inadvertently inflict pain on people all day long.

[2932] Right.

[2933] So the meter enforcer is also in that position.

[2934] Worse than a dentist because they don't even get paid.

[2935] I got to tell you what.

[2936] This is a commitment out loud.

[2937] It's not New Year's, but I'm going to make a second quarter resolution.

[2938] I'm going to start going way out of my way to be nice to the parking enforcement.

[2939] Unless they're putting it to take out my car.

[2940] No, that's when.

[2941] I won't be able to control myself.

[2942] I won't be mean to them.

[2943] I'm not mean to them, but I can't be happy.

[2944] But I think I'm going to start really going like, hey, how's it going?

[2945] kind of engage them.

[2946] And I'm going to try to tip one.

[2947] Oh.

[2948] I just decided that right now, too.

[2949] I'm going to try to give one $100.

[2950] It's like bribery.

[2951] But that's what they might be nervous about.

[2952] But I'll say, hey, you haven't ticketed me and I'm not asked for anything.

[2953] I just appreciate you out here in these streets.

[2954] Where are you going to see them?

[2955] How often do you see them?

[2956] You do?

[2957] Sure, Los Angeles.

[2958] Girl, they're cooking around.

[2959] I actually think there's been budget cuts in that arena.

[2960] I'm going to go out of my way.

[2961] Okay.

[2962] That's nice of you.

[2963] Maybe take one to lunch if they're up for it.

[2964] Great.

[2965] I think you should.

[2966] You know what I, fuck, here's what I should do.

[2967] This is what Drew Carey did during the strike, which was so nice.

[2968] He opened up a tab at Bob's Big Boy.

[2969] Oh.

[2970] And he said, if you're a writer in the union, you can go to Bob's and show your WGA card and have lunch for free.

[2971] That's awesome.

[2972] It's so Drew Carey.

[2973] He's such a fucking mensch.

[2974] It's impossible.

[2975] Yeah.

[2976] He's done shit like that his whole career.

[2977] Oh, man. I love that.

[2978] Majorly good dude.

[2979] Friend of the pod, early days.

[2980] Absolutely.

[2981] Road here on a moped, which was cool, and a full rain suit.

[2982] But I should probably, I should open up an account at a restaurant and offer to buy Barking Enforcer's lunch.

[2983] And people who've got tickets that day.

[2984] No, because I can't afford that.

[2985] That would be half the city.

[2986] Oh, no, I'm bleeding.

[2987] Or if you could show your ticket and it had that day's date on it.

[2988] yeah that's actually kind of nice as well tvd we'll see how this goes okay um okay phineas so i text phineas this weekend oh you did i did about what well just it crosses my mind sometimes i'm laying in bed and it's like we make these really nice connections with people and it's so heightened the experience and then we exchange numbers and i sometimes worry that they think like three weeks later like yeah i never did hear from them that was kind of fake oh not that it's self -esteem is probably way bigger than that i don't need to worry about that but i just it occurred to me I want him to know I think about him and I really liked meeting him and I'm still thinking about him.

[2989] That's nice.

[2990] So I just texted him and said, still thinking about you.

[2991] That's cool.

[2992] And then he responded, said, who the fuck is this?

[2993] Stop texting me. Yeah.

[2994] Who does?

[2995] It's Jack Shepherd.

[2996] And he said, tell me something you've been in.

[2997] What would you say?

[2998] What would you say to that?

[2999] To Phineas idiocacy.

[3000] No, no, no. To, to.

[3001] It's person to person.

[3002] Flippy Gomez.

[3003] Flippy Gomez, I would say chips.

[3004] Because that's a male Latino in Los Angeles.

[3005] And that's primarily who watched chips.

[3006] He's not Latino.

[3007] Gomez?

[3008] I know.

[3009] This is one of those whina situations.

[3010] Okay, okay.

[3011] So this is a young Asian female by the name of Flippy Gomez.

[3012] Yep.

[3013] Well, in that case, I think parenthood.

[3014] Yeah, that's probably right.

[3015] Maybe bless us mess.

[3016] Anywho.

[3017] Okay.

[3018] Now, Phineas is obviously doing film scores.

[3019] Yeah.

[3020] We talked a lot about that.

[3021] So I looked up 50 best film scores of all time.

[3022] Can I have a tissue?

[3023] Tissue?

[3024] I have blood.

[3025] Oh, wow.

[3026] You scratch yourself.

[3027] You're bleeding.

[3028] Yeah.

[3029] Okay, ready?

[3030] I'm going to read these.

[3031] Okay.

[3032] That's number 50.

[3033] Christopher Beck.

[3034] I missed the setup because you asked me for a tissue and I was on the move.

[3035] Well, that was, okay, yes.

[3036] Top 50 best film scores.

[3037] Oh, best.

[3038] Mm -hmm.

[3039] Okay.

[3040] Frozen's 50.

[3041] Frozen.

[3042] Okay.

[3043] Interstellar.

[3044] Hans Zimmer.

[3045] Ding, ding, ding.

[3046] Jonah.

[3047] I bet he's going to have the most on here.

[3048] Oh, that's a good guess.

[3049] Casablanca, Max Steiner.

[3050] Are you going one to 50?

[3051] No, I'm going 50 to one.

[3052] Okay.

[3053] What?

[3054] That was a lot.

[3055] Well, stop interrupting then.

[3056] Okay, sorry.

[3057] James Bond theme, Monnie Norman.

[3058] Superman.

[3059] John Williams.

[3060] He's going to be a content.

[3061] That's when I was confirmed.

[3062] I don't know.

[3063] Alien.

[3064] Jerry Goldsmith.

[3065] Goldsmith.

[3066] 44 Pride and Prejudice.

[3067] Dario Marianelli.

[3068] 43.

[3069] Inception Hans Zimmer.

[3070] 42, Avatar James Horner.

[3071] 41.

[3072] Captain Corelli's Mandolin.

[3073] Stephen Warbeck.

[3074] I feel like I'm doing something cool.

[3075] You're listing the nominees.

[3076] Yeah.

[3077] That's what it sounds like.

[3078] This is a good time for me to practice.

[3079] You're taking the right pause.

[3080] Thank you.

[3081] Hans Zimmer, Interstellar.

[3082] Gives time to show the clip, a little bit of the clip.

[3083] Exactly.

[3084] Once upon a time in the West.

[3085] Enio Maricone.

[3086] Eniomaricone.

[3087] Marconi cherries.

[3088] 39, Romeo and Juliet.

[3089] Craig Armstrong.

[3090] This is Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet.

[3091] Craig Armstrong.

[3092] Jaws, John Williams.

[3093] John Williams.

[3094] The big country, Jerome Morose.

[3095] So we got John Williams and John Goldfeld?

[3096] No, Jerry Goldsmith.

[3097] Jerry Goldsmith and John Williams.

[3098] They're not even related.

[3099] Why do I think those are the same name?

[3100] No, not even close.

[3101] I know.

[3102] Well, they both J's.

[3103] That's weird.

[3104] But you also have James Horner.

[3105] That's 36 Titanic.

[3106] 35 Pirates of the Caribbean.

[3107] Hans Zimmer.

[3108] Hans Zimmer and Klaus Bedelt.

[3109] That's his uncle.

[3110] Do you say Caribbean?

[3111] Yes.

[3112] Unless I'm going on a vacation to the Caribbean.

[3113] Last of the Mohicans, Trevor Jones.

[3114] Battle of Britain, Ron Goodwin and William Walton.

[3115] Oh my God, you really leaned into that one.

[3116] You were waiting for the two different camera angles because there was two.

[3117] 32.

[3118] The Dam Busters Eric Coates.

[3119] 31, back to the future.

[3120] Alan Silvestri The Godfather Nino Rota Apollo 13 I just want to preemptively say Tootsie you better be on here Okay All right And Johnny Greenwood For there will be blood Oh that was a good one Okay Apollo 13 James Horner Saving Private Ryan John Williams The Sound of Music Richard Rogers Indiana Jones Raiders of the Lost Ark John Williams Yeah I guess Will Williams is the king, isn't he?

[3121] One time I think I saw him at Houston's.

[3122] American Beauty, Thomas Newman.

[3123] I love L .A. Is that a song for that?

[3124] That's Randy Newman, his brother.

[3125] Really?

[3126] Yeah.

[3127] Oh, really his brother?

[3128] I really think so.

[3129] Look, that, yeah, I think Thomas and Randy Newman are brothers.

[3130] Cousins.

[3131] Cousins.

[3132] Okay.

[3133] Kissing cousins.

[3134] Born free, John Barry.

[3135] Gone with the win.

[3136] Max Steiner, Dangerous Moonlight, Richard.

[3137] Uh -oh.

[3138] This is a panic on stage.

[3139] This is a Travolta moment.

[3140] Adel disease.

[3141] Yeah, yeah.

[3142] That popped up on my Instagram recently.

[3143] Richard, and you took like a weird.

[3144] Richard Adenssel.

[3145] Lawrence of Arabia, Maurice Jarre.

[3146] Pretty much.

[3147] Kind of confident about that, but also a little nervous.

[3148] I feel like I'm reading Taylor's commencement speech You're only like 10 in No 20 we have 20 left Braveheart James Horner Well the James Horner Blade Runner Vangelis Amelie Yon Tiersen I love Amelie Great movie 633 Squadron Ron Goodwin The Magnificent 7 Elmer Bernstein 15 E .T. The Extra Terrest John Goldwyn No such fun William, Jerry Goldsmith.

[3149] Jerry Goldsmith.

[3150] But this isn't.

[3151] John Williams.

[3152] This is weird.

[3153] It says E .T. the extraterrestrial.

[3154] John Williams' close relationship with Steven Spielberg and the director's own meteoric career meant that he was the composer for many major films of the period, including close encounters of the third kind, Superman, and of course, E .T. Huh, weird.

[3155] John Williams, just gave you a lot of info on that one?

[3156] But it's not labeled the same way.

[3157] Oh, okay.

[3158] It messed up.

[3159] All right.

[3160] That wasn't my fault.

[3161] That was the prompter's fault.

[3162] I have been to the Hollywood Bowl for John Williams' night where the orchestra plays all the themes.

[3163] It's really cool.

[3164] Speaking of, this is my favorite.

[3165] I always thought I was at Jerry Gold Smith's performance, but it was just as pleasant, even though I was confused.

[3166] Okay.

[3167] This is my favorite.

[3168] Well, one of my top two faves.

[3169] Okay.

[3170] Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.

[3171] Okay.

[3172] John Williams.

[3173] What happened?

[3174] your computer day?

[3175] Oh, my God.

[3176] Are we having technical difficulties?

[3177] No, this is the time we're...

[3178] Oh, you want to play it.

[3179] Tim's Posner and the Sorcerer's Stone.

[3180] It's so good.

[3181] Okay, so actually, I have another one.

[3182] Oh, no way.

[3183] It's lost.

[3184] You have to play the whole thing, I think.

[3185] You got to watch the whole movie now.

[3186] Oh, my God, it's everywhere.

[3187] What's happening?

[3188] It's magic.

[3189] The list was only made longer by having to watch Harry Potter in the middle of the list.

[3190] Wait.

[3191] What is going?

[3192] virus sorcery i would love it if what if your computer elevated and started floating out throughout the room and you finally were invited into the world of magic okay oh god okay um ladies in lavender nigel hess cinema paradiso any maricone oh another maricone yeah dr javago maris jarr drastic park john williams that was my other but there's one more I have three.

[3193] Well, you're going to play three.

[3194] No, I just love three, but I am going to play.

[3195] So good.

[3196] I think this is the best one.

[3197] Yeah, but we're not at the sticky part.

[3198] I love this one.

[3199] This is a game on set.

[3200] If someone whistles at it, there it is.

[3201] Look, a dinosaur is doing it.

[3202] Oh, it's conducting you.

[3203] That proves my point.

[3204] About what?

[3205] That they can do it without the conductor.

[3206] Oh, my God.

[3207] Oh, my God.

[3208] I've been yelled at by a few people that that was my opinion from the Cooper episode.

[3209] I'm going to stand by it.

[3210] There's like a couple.

[3211] I'm willing to take the heat on a couple.

[3212] Like, I pissed off curlers years ago, as you may remember, the Olympic curlers.

[3213] Yeah.

[3214] Because I said it was sweeping.

[3215] Well, sweeping.

[3216] It was like a, you know, it's an interesting.

[3217] And I've lived with that.

[3218] And I can shoulder it.

[3219] And so, yeah, the handful of conductors, because I'm convinced I've watched enough of these where they don't ever look at the conductor.

[3220] That's my premise.

[3221] But how?

[3222] The musician just stare at their sheet.

[3223] I watch them.

[3224] They don't ever look up at the conductor.

[3225] But you never take, you've never, you can't say that when you've never, you've never even taken a chorus class.

[3226] I've also, I've also never curled.

[3227] I've only watched it on TV.

[3228] I just think as a good artist, you shouldn't say that.

[3229] I know that's why people are so mad.

[3230] I get everyone's.

[3231] point.

[3232] Okay.

[3233] Okay.

[3234] Nine.

[3235] The good, the bad, and the ugly.

[3236] Ennio Maricone.

[3237] That's a goody.

[3238] Charlotte's a fire.

[3239] This is why they don't have 50 nominees.

[3240] Yeah.

[3241] No one could do it.

[3242] People fatigue.

[3243] Yeah.

[3244] Chariots of fire.

[3245] Vangelis.

[3246] Oh, that's the second.

[3247] Vangelis.

[3248] Star Wars, John Williams.

[3249] Williams is the Titan.

[3250] Yeah.

[3251] The mission.

[3252] Ennio Maricone.

[3253] Oh, number four.

[3254] I definitely saw him.

[3255] at Houston's.

[3256] John Williams, not any Ameriocony.

[3257] Okay.

[3258] Okay, now we're entering top five.

[3259] Okay.

[3260] Dances with wolves, John Barry.

[3261] Okay.

[3262] Out of Africa, John Barry.

[3263] Wow.

[3264] John Barry, on a roll.

[3265] Gladiator, Hans Zimmer.

[3266] Uh, Zimmer.

[3267] The Lord of the Rings, Howard Shore.

[3268] Schindler's list, John Williams, number one.

[3269] John Williams, he takes it.

[3270] Did John Bryan not make the list at all?

[3271] No, I'm curious who assembled this list.

[3272] Is this some just a...

[3273] Classicfm .com.

[3274] Wonderful.

[3275] Yeah, in my opinion, there's a few missing things.

[3276] But that's fine.

[3277] What would your list be?

[3278] What's your top five?

[3279] Well, of course, John Bryant's got a few different that I would nominate.

[3280] Eternal Sunshine.

[3281] What a fucking score.

[3282] Tootsie.

[3283] You're being so cavalier like you are with connections.

[3284] You have to pick five.

[3285] Dave Gruson.

[3286] Yeah, we've done enough.

[3287] I'm not going to.

[3288] I'll just say those two.

[3289] I wish they were on there.

[3290] And Johnny Greenwood.

[3291] There will be blood.

[3292] Okay.

[3293] That's yours.

[3294] That's yours.

[3295] Do you have one that wasn't on there that you want to see on there?

[3296] Home alone.

[3297] Okay.

[3298] I'm serious.

[3299] I believe it.

[3300] It's great.

[3301] I think this is John Williams.

[3302] Probably.

[3303] Yeah.

[3304] He's every other one.

[3305] Yeah.

[3306] I met Han.

[3307] It was him.

[3308] Yeah.

[3309] Oh, wow.

[3310] Dude, what a career.

[3311] I know.

[3312] I met Han Zimmer in the commissary at Warner Brothers.

[3313] And he actually introduced himself at the table.

[3314] And I, of course, I know the whole career, he, Hans Zimmer.

[3315] Whoa, what a score.

[3316] I might even put that on there.

[3317] I'm picturing a very serious German composer.

[3318] Right.

[3319] Fucking playful party.

[3320] That's nice.

[3321] Exuberant personality and friendly to no end.

[3322] I like that.

[3323] Yeah.

[3324] But I kind of, of course, not my stereotype of what I was picturing.

[3325] One time I saw John Williams at Houston's.

[3326] Let me be clear.

[3327] I know you saw him at Houston.

[3328] or not, but seemingly seems like.

[3329] I want to be clear, I think composers are a very real job.

[3330] I'm talking about conducting.

[3331] I know.

[3332] I know.

[3333] We all know.

[3334] The sticks.

[3335] A couple sticks.

[3336] Doon 2 score is really good that Hans did.

[3337] Oh, yeah.

[3338] I liked that.

[3339] Yeah.

[3340] I liked that.

[3341] I don't think I'd put it in my top five, but okay.

[3342] I brought up a video that I saw of Billy and Phineas singing together when they were young.

[3343] Oh, I want to hear that.

[3344] And I'm going to play it.

[3345] Oh, good.

[3346] Are you?

[3347] Maybe.

[3348] Oh, she's so young, huh?

[3349] Oh, she looks like she's, what, 14 or something?

[3350] I don't think this is the one I want.

[3351] Wait, maybe this.

[3352] I think your speakers are a little bit.

[3353] Excuse the mess it made.

[3354] Usually doesn't wait.

[3355] I think your speakers are lower on your computer money.

[3356] You want to hold it up a little higher.

[3357] You want to hold it up a little higher.

[3358] What?

[3359] You're holding it up to the screen.

[3360] Oh, why you're able to see it?

[3361] And then you're turning the volume up and you don't know why it's not getting louder.

[3362] Cut up.

[3363] God.

[3364] What if you're only into their mouth on screen?

[3365] That's how it would get louder.

[3366] What's going on?

[3367] Oh, my God.

[3368] I wanted you to be able to see it also.

[3369] Yes.

[3370] All things could happen.

[3371] And you just got to hold your computer a little higher so that the, no, put the mic higher.

[3372] Yes, the speakers are in the computer, not the screen.

[3373] Where, though?

[3374] I think around, coming out the keyboard area.

[3375] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[3376] Okay, fine.

[3377] Resume, resume.

[3378] Harry Potter.

[3379] I'm starting over.

[3380] Oh, whoa.

[3381] That's what you get.

[3382] I'm starting over.

[3383] Are you?

[3384] Maybe.

[3385] See what's louder it is now?

[3386] I've been doing it wrong every time.

[3387] I know.

[3388] It's a mess he made.

[3389] Usually doesn't rain in Southern California, much like Arizona.

[3390] My eyes don't shed tears before the ball when I'm thinking about you.

[3391] I've been thinking about you.

[3392] You're thinking about you.

[3393] Do you think about me still?

[3394] Do you not think so far?

[3395] Because I could sell you when I need a hoax.

[3396] I think so cute, that's why.

[3397] How could I forget?

[3398] Good God.

[3399] Isn't that so special?

[3400] Oh, fuck.

[3401] They look so, like, they look so little in this.

[3402] They're children.

[3403] Yeah.

[3404] I don't know how the parents walk in and see that the two babies are creating art that's, like, comparable or exceeds what professionals do.

[3405] Yeah, I know.

[3406] Oh, my, it's so.

[3407] He of all the people I've ever met.

[3408] that, I think.

[3409] Other than maybe May Whitman is so much older than his age, I can't compute it.

[3410] I know.

[3411] It's the most rattling version of that I think I've ever experienced.

[3412] You know what's tricky?

[3413] I was thinking about that.

[3414] The hard thing is when you are so mature, you are still in age.

[3415] There is legitimately time you have not experienced on earth.

[3416] And so I think it's actually, like, if you fuck up or if you're not always mature or like showing, you know, I feel like people take that much worse.

[3417] I know exactly what you're saying.

[3418] I do it to Lincoln sometimes, which is she's so smart and aware and misleadingly old.

[3419] Right.

[3420] Yeah.

[3421] And every now and then, I'm like, oh, right.

[3422] And she's 10.

[3423] Yeah.

[3424] Yeah.

[3425] She is 11 now.

[3426] But I would think it a lot when she was 10.

[3427] Right.

[3428] I'd get reminded like, oh, yeah, she's just a little girl still.

[3429] Exactly.

[3430] So I think it's, yes, he is so mature, but he's, he is still a 27 -year -old guy.

[3431] Yeah.

[3432] Guy, man. Yeah.

[3433] Anyway, so cool for the parents.

[3434] Also, when I watch that, and this shouldn't be my thought process, I should just enjoy it.

[3435] But I do go, I have nothing to offer like that.

[3436] That is so special.

[3437] And powerful and otherworldly.

[3438] And I just am like in awe and humbled by the talent.

[3439] Me too.

[3440] You have your grunts.

[3441] Thank you.

[3442] Yeah.

[3443] Thank you for reminding me. You're welcome.

[3444] Yeah.

[3445] I was feeling a little low about myself, but now that I remember, I grunt, um, theoretically, I feel a lot better.

[3446] It's unique to you.

[3447] It is.

[3448] Everyone knows where I'm at all the time.

[3449] Yeah.

[3450] You don't.

[3451] You're not.

[3452] I'd be a bad assassin.

[3453] Yeah.

[3454] That probably feels bad.

[3455] It does.

[3456] Because I think I'd be good on the sneaking up on people.

[3457] Yeah.

[3458] But I would inevitably have to clear my throat.

[3459] I don't know if you would because you're so big.

[3460] But I'm ballerina -like on my tit -toes.

[3461] I'm cat -like.

[3462] Ugh.

[3463] Cats.

[3464] They eat your head off.

[3465] That's all I can think about.

[3466] All right.

[3467] Let's see.

[3468] That's it.

[3469] I think.

[3470] Oh, no. support and feed his mom's nonprofit or his mom's charity is a dot org.

[3471] Oh, that was confusing to me. The name of it sounded like a call to action for me. I thought you were saying support and feed his mother's.

[3472] Oh.

[3473] And I'm waiting for the name of.

[3474] I see.

[3475] But that's in fact the name of it.

[3476] Support and feed .org.

[3477] Oh, we talked a little bit about Adam Grant's astrology.

[3478] Take down?

[3479] Yeah.

[3480] You haven't read it yet?

[3481] No, I did.

[3482] I did read it.

[3483] You don't care?

[3484] I mean, I see what he means.

[3485] Like, I see what he means.

[3486] I also think it's fine if people believe in it.

[3487] Oh, totally.

[3488] So.

[3489] Me too.

[3490] I do admire, though, weirdly, the audacity to take on something that people like so much.

[3491] Yeah, it's like Taylor Swift.

[3492] Which also has, has, like, no impact.

[3493] So there is something about it that it feels not brave, but weirdly, it is.

[3494] Does that make sense?

[3495] I guess he must really, Because, I mean, we love Adam.

[3496] And I know he's not trying to be provocative.

[3497] Like, I don't find Adam to beat that necessarily.

[3498] I think he thinks this is an actual problem.

[3499] Potentially harmful.

[3500] Yeah.

[3501] In which case, I understand why he took the time.

[3502] But it's not a problem for me, so I'm going to keep doing it.

[3503] It's only enhancing your life and making it more fun.

[3504] Today I read, oh, we should read yours.

[3505] Oh, okay.

[3506] Because the eclipse.

[3507] Oh.

[3508] That has a big.

[3509] Yeah.

[3510] It's huge.

[3511] It's huge.

[3512] Try to time lapse eclipse, but phone turns off.

[3513] Oh, God.

[3514] I'll start believing if it references my failed eclipse, time lapse.

[3515] Oh, my God.

[3516] Don't make it up.

[3517] I see you staring.

[3518] I'm not.

[3519] I'm looking for it.

[3520] God.

[3521] So you're thinking.

[3522] This is about the eclipse.

[3523] Okay.

[3524] Our struggles give us a unique perspective.

[3525] and maturity, allowing us to turn personal pain into valuable insights that enrich our lives.

[3526] In this eclipse season, you have an open invitation to transmute the challenges you faced within your home, family, and sense of belonging into a wisdom that equips you with newfound inner courage.

[3527] If you find that your foundational sense of safety and security has been lacking, then this is when a greater sense of inner security and belonging is becoming established.

[3528] Purging, resentment.

[3529] This toxic emotion tends to disguise.

[3530] itself as a justified punishment for those who've wronged you, but it only leads to feeling hurt and victimized over and over again.

[3531] Choose forgiveness this time and see where it leads.

[3532] Inviting better boundaries.

[3533] The weight of the world's sorrows is too much for any person to bear and you do not have any imperative to heal everyone.

[3534] By acknowledging your ability to guide and support, while also having boundaries that prevent you from feeling responsible for the happiness of those around you, you'll avoid emotional exhaustion and others will inevitably follow your lead.

[3535] out of course.

[3536] No wonder people believe in this stuff because every one of those things I was able to immediately attach to something.

[3537] Yes, that's currently going on.

[3538] Yeah, I know.

[3539] Astrology.

[3540] I'm back in.

[3541] I read Adam's thing.

[3542] I was out.

[3543] Now you read me that one.

[3544] I'm back in.

[3545] Wow.

[3546] I'm dancing around.

[3547] You're all over the way.

[3548] I'm all over the map.

[3549] All righty.

[3550] All righty.

[3551] I love you.

[3552] Love you.

[3553] Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts.

[3554] You can listen to every episode of Armchair expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts.

[3555] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey.