#1127 - Jesse Itzler

[0] four, three, two, one, boom.

[1] So, 100 mile man, or 100 man, what is it?

[2] The 100 mile man. What is that?

[3] I ran 100 mile race years ago.

[4] I'm the fucking man. Let me grab it if it's available.

[5] That's cool that you got it, man, because that's a very popular thing now.

[6] Yeah.

[7] Did you run this before or after you did the book with David Guggins?

[8] I ran it before.

[9] Oh, okay.

[10] Yeah.

[11] I think at the time when I did it, There were like 400 Americans that it ran 100 miles or something.

[12] It wasn't a lot.

[13] So that's why it was available.

[14] Isn't it crazy how many people do it now?

[15] Yeah, I was trying to figure out in my head how many do it a year.

[16] And like how many races, 100 mile races there are there a month and then multiply it out.

[17] So probably 5 or 6 ,000, I'm guessing.

[18] 5 or 6 ,000 people have done it?

[19] I think probably, I think so.

[20] Wow.

[21] Americans, yeah.

[22] It's a long way.

[23] It's a long fucking way.

[24] we're just about talking right before the podcast about how Miss America yanked off all they're no longer judged by their beauty and I posted this because I thought it was silly and there's just these fights online man this fucking fights in the comments and fights and people are tense yeah people need to go out run those hundred miles yeah they loosen up fast fast I know what the fuck is going to Miss America is scrapping the swimsuit competition were no longer be judged on physical appearance.

[25] It's literally a beauty contest.

[26] That is what it is.

[27] What are they replacing it with?

[28] I mean, I got to think it's like when Playboy decided to not have people nude.

[29] Right.

[30] But here's the thing, but no longer judging them on their physical appearance, well, what does that mean?

[31] What does that mean?

[32] Yeah, that's a twist.

[33] We are no longer a pageant, Gretchen Carlson says.

[34] We're a competition Okay I give up I don't know I think that might have Be a be a You know hurt the ratings a little bit I think a little bit Or not Maybe people will get very excited about it Maybe it'll ramp up Yeah it's getting a lot of talk Yeah maybe people will be pissed off And so they'll tune in It's just I don't know Where do you stand on it I don't give a fuck It's so stupid Miss America I mean this is what's really fascinating to me Is that I was a reading the comments a lot of feminists were angry at me that I was mocking and I saw a few of them I don't get it like why would you even want a who I'd most like to fuck contest because that's what it is I mean that's really what it is you're having these gals parade around their bikini it's a beauty contest do we have a Mr. America contest like is that just the president is that what the mr. American contest is I don't know I don't know I mean I was trying to ask you as someone who's deeply connected to competition and mindsets.

[35] Yeah.

[36] I don't know.

[37] I'm not following it that closely.

[38] But I am going to miss that part of the competition, to be honest with you.

[39] Are you, though, really?

[40] Yeah.

[41] Just there's so many opportunities to see people naked today.

[42] Yeah, but, you know, as a kid watching this America pageant, I was like, you know, there weren't a lot of options.

[43] Back then.

[44] Kids today are broken.

[45] Sports Illustrated and the pageant.

[46] Swimsuit issue.

[47] I wonder if they're going to continue to swimsuit issue.

[48] Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, maybe they'll just see their faces and just have to assume they're in their swimsuit.

[49] And then, you know, there'll be like a bubble, a thought bubble, and it'll be filled with an amazing quote that they say.

[50] That'll be the new swimsuit issue, because we're just judging them on their minds.

[51] Right.

[52] And the content.

[53] Yes, the content.

[54] The content.

[55] Speaking of content.

[56] Living with monks.

[57] Yes.

[58] What is it called?

[59] Living with the monks.

[60] Living with the monks.

[61] Um, this is your new book?

[62] Yes.

[63] Why did you say I'd do that?

[64] And how long did you do it for?

[65] I did it for 15 days.

[66] That's enough.

[67] That's more than enough, man. Where'd you go?

[68] Go like this for an hour.

[69] Your finger will fall off.

[70] What are you doing with your finger?

[71] Up and down.

[72] Just the repetition.

[73] What did you have to do?

[74] I, uh, well, I live with, there were, there were eight monks, four of which have been there for 50 years.

[75] 50?

[76] 50.

[77] 50 on a monastery, 800, 800, 500 acres, kind of in the middle of, nowhere.

[78] And I went for 15 days.

[79] So I figured, you know, I'd invested so much of my life on the physical side and ran 100 miles and just always active and this and that and have really invested very little on my own inner work.

[80] And I just felt like, man, I just felt overwhelmed a little bit.

[81] And I said to my wife, you know, who are the masters?

[82] And everything pointed to monks.

[83] And I said, I want to go live on a monastery.

[84] There's something romantic about that, right?

[85] It's almost like the guy who goes off into the woods to write a book, like being with a monk, like, and just being, you know, in a monastery with monks.

[86] There's something very romantic about that, right?

[87] You've shed all your worldly belongings and you no longer care about the day -to -day nonsense that everybody is fixated on.

[88] You just decide to just, home.

[89] Yes.

[90] Home.

[91] All day.

[92] You could do it, man. I don't want to do it, man. I don't want to do it.

[93] I live the opposite of a monk's life.

[94] My life is filled with bullshit.

[95] I get it.

[96] Where'd you go?

[97] So I went to a monastery just south of Canada in the States.

[98] Ah.

[99] What state is it?

[100] It was in upstate New York.

[101] Oh, okay.

[102] Yeah, like on the Vermont border.

[103] And it was, you know, no phone, total kind of separation from my family.

[104] I have four kids, my wife.

[105] and just got to get to know myself a little bit.

[106] Wow.

[107] Now, when you were up there, was there any time where you're like, what the fuck am I doing?

[108] Like one minute into it.

[109] When I first got up there, the main monk, like my go -to monk, brother Christopher, took me to my room.

[110] They called the rooms a cell, which is about the size of this table.

[111] And I had a bed.

[112] I walked in, there was a bed.

[113] There was a little desk with a night lamp on it and nothing on the walls.

[114] And he said, tomorrow, we're going to start prayer, reflection, and meditation at 7 .15 a .m. And I looked at my watch and it was 6 p .m. And I asked him, well, what do we do between now and 7 .15 a .m.?

[115] And he looked at me dead in the eye and he said, you think.

[116] And I said to myself, I'm fucked.

[117] Because I'm like, I don't really like spend a lot of time in that.

[118] thought.

[119] So I went and I said, okay, I'm going to meditate.

[120] You know, like I'm here.

[121] Let me start this journey with meditation.

[122] I had taken a little, a course in transcendental meditation.

[123] I'm not a big meditation guy other than running.

[124] And so I set my timer for 20 minutes and I sat down in my chair and I started like focusing on my mantra and like immediately I'm bombarded with how is my wife, how the kids, the hawks, like all this, you know, the Atlanta.

[125] The Atlanta like, you know, not your kind of hawk.

[126] Everything's coming at me and I'm, you know, time is going by and I'm just getting bombarded with thought and I'm like, why isn't my timer buzzed?

[127] Like, it's been, I've been here forever.

[128] So I was going to look and reset my thing.

[129] I'm like, that would be cheating.

[130] Let me keep going and I'm going and all the time's going by.

[131] And finally I'm like, the fuck is going on with my timer, you know?

[132] So I open my eyes and I look to reset my timer and it's three minutes and 27 seconds.

[133] No. And I said to my, I like starting.

[134] You really thought it was 20 minutes?

[135] I thought it was like hours, man. I mean, like, I'd never really sat in a room, like, with nothing going on and just closed my eyes alone and thought.

[136] And time just stopped.

[137] And I calculated how much time I've left, like, 15 days times 24 hours or 60 minutes.

[138] And I said to myself, like, man, I'm in trouble.

[139] This isn't like, this isn't what I'm on Gilligan's Island.

[140] This is a real, like, I can't get out of here.

[141] And I had a really hard time with it.

[142] What was the commitment?

[143] The commitment was 15 days.

[144] So the only you did...

[145] It was a personal commitment.

[146] You did it up to you.

[147] Like there was no, nothing in writing.

[148] Did you have a way to escape?

[149] I mean, I was thinking of escape plans.

[150] But on the monastery, and this is a little crazy, the way the monks keep the lights on is they breed German shepherds.

[151] That's how they make money.

[152] They breed German shepherds.

[153] Oh, I've seen this.

[154] They wrote a book.

[155] Yeah, they wrote a book.

[156] I have the book.

[157] It's a book about raising puppies.

[158] Correct.

[159] The same guys?

[160] Same guys.

[161] Oh.

[162] So they weren't Buddhist.

[163] They were Russian Orthodox.

[164] And they raised German shepherds.

[165] So they live on this property, and they're these 11 German shepherds.

[166] And at the end of the property, the only way off the property, were two mobile homes, unconnected to the monastery at the end of this road that leads up to the monastery.

[167] And both of those homes had German shepherds as well that were a little territorial.

[168] So there really was no way for me to escape.

[169] Like I couldn't I ran 120 miles Up and down the driveway While I was there Because I couldn't leave The property So you just Timed yourself Or paste yourself You used an app or something like that?

[170] No I said like 2 ,000 steps Equals a mile You know So you counted your steps?

[171] Oh Jesus Christ Dude Yeah I counted it I marked it What did they think about You running Back and forth like that Thought I was a fucking psychopath I'm like You guys have been here For 50 years man I'm just Trying to get some exercise.

[172] What are the guys like that have been there for 50 years?

[173] Quiet.

[174] No, they were, you know, extremely, listen, they were doing what they wanted to do with their life.

[175] So they were super happy.

[176] Really?

[177] Yeah, super present.

[178] I mean, very present.

[179] And, I mean, I live in the world a to do list, man. And, you know, they were very present, very happy and really, really nice to me and everybody.

[180] Did you talk to them?

[181] They speak English?

[182] What was the conversation like?

[183] What do you say to a guy who's been in a monastery for 50 years, just staring at the walls?

[184] Well, I could have talked to them about the pageant.

[185] That would be interesting conversation.

[186] I'm super confused.

[187] When I first got up there and they asked me a little bit about my background, I told them, you know, I was in the private jet business.

[188] They didn't understand private jets, really.

[189] And then I said, I had a coconut water company.

[190] They never heard a coconut water.

[191] I told them I was involved with the Atlanta Hawks and one of the monks said, oh, I've been to an expo's game and I'm like, that's a different sport and they don't play, they don't exist anymore.

[192] And it's just very like time warped at first.

[193] It was really interesting, really interesting.

[194] Jesus.

[195] Now what led these guys that are 50 years on the monastery, how old were they?

[196] So some of the age range from, I think the youngest monk was probably, 35 up until late 70s.

[197] So late 70s were the guys that had been there for 50 years?

[198] Yeah.

[199] So they checked in when they were 20.

[200] Yeah, they're young 20s.

[201] In the same spot?

[202] They actually built this monastery by hand.

[203] They bought 500 acres for very, you know, I think it was like $50 ,000 or something.

[204] I mean, something crazy.

[205] And then they built the monastery by hand.

[206] And so it's been a passion of love and labor and they've been there since.

[207] And so they vow celibacy the whole deal?

[208] Celibacy, poverty.

[209] Poverty and celibacy at 20.

[210] Yeah.

[211] They take a vow four things of celibacy, poverty.

[212] They pledge all their personal belongings to the monastery.

[213] So really their only possession is a driver's license.

[214] Obedience and stability, meaning we're not leaving.

[215] This is what we're going to do.

[216] So, I mean, talk about discipline, just off the charts.

[217] This is what we're going to do forever.

[218] Forever.

[219] And where do they get?

[220] funding?

[221] They're self -sufficient.

[222] So they breed German shepherds.

[223] They sell them.

[224] That's kind of one income stream.

[225] And then they're masters, world masters of dog training.

[226] So every two weeks, they have 10 dogs that come in and they, and I watch this.

[227] I mean, literally dogs come in like Spuds McKenzie and leave like they just left etiquette school.

[228] Like it's, it was, like anytime you're in the presence of the people that are the best in the world of what they do, it's fucking fascinating.

[229] And these guys were masters.

[230] They are the masters of, I'm sure there's a lot of people that are great, but in their space of dog training and breeding.

[231] What was so special about the way they trained dogs?

[232] Just the command, like they had an energy that the dogs responded to.

[233] I mean, like, I would walk in, the dogs would go crazy.

[234] They'd sniff my nuts.

[235] They'd jump, like, they'd go nuts.

[236] Right.

[237] These guys would walk in and, like, they could just sense that they were in control.

[238] Yeah.

[239] And, like, the eye contact, that they, everything, the way that they talk, their tone, their hand mannerisms, they just have mastered this.

[240] And they have a deep connection with the dogs.

[241] Dogs are weird in that way.

[242] Like, I have a one -year -old golden retriever, and he has different rules for different people.

[243] And he knows who he can get away with what with.

[244] Like, my wife's mom has zero shot at controlling this dog.

[245] Like, it's like, he's like, oh, no, no, no, I'm the boss.

[246] I think I'm going to jump up on you and kiss you.

[247] You know, no, I'm going to just run around and put a pause on you when you sit in the chair.

[248] And, you know, we're like, Marshall, come on, man, what the fuck?

[249] What is this?

[250] You don't do this.

[251] And it doesn't matter.

[252] When she's here, he just decides, nah, new set of rules with this lady.

[253] She doesn't seem to know what the fuck to do with me. But when I had a trainer that I worked with him for in.

[254] the beginning when I first got him.

[255] And when Ryan, the trainer, comes over, he just, like, sits down.

[256] He's super chill.

[257] He listens.

[258] He's like, oh, this guy knows what the fuck to do.

[259] He knows how to control me. Right.

[260] It's very interesting.

[261] He's even different with me than he is with my friends.

[262] Like, my friends will come over.

[263] He's like, let me try you out, motherfucker.

[264] Put a pause on you.

[265] See what's up.

[266] And I wish he would be, like, across the board with everybody.

[267] But he's just, it's all love, so it's not bad.

[268] You know, he's just a lovey dog.

[269] Yeah, but it's just like pause on you and shit, you know?

[270] And I'm not really a dog person, I like dogs, but we don't have one, no?

[271] No, but we don't really connect.

[272] You don't connect with dogs?

[273] I mean, I'm not like instant love when they see me the way that they are with other people, you know?

[274] But the monks were using, we're teaching me various lessons, almost like karate kid style, through the dogs.

[275] So like the first day I got there, every day I was signed a different role with, I would shadow one of the monks.

[276] and there were eight and they had different responsibilities around the monastery.

[277] The first day I was in the training center with one of the monks that was training the dog and my job was to be the distractor.

[278] So Rainbow, this dog, would walk around and I would fucking go at him and jump and run and like try to, you know, whatever, get him to break his goal of going, they were kind of simulating a park scene or a city scene and making this dog not get distracted.

[279] So I would go nuts with a pork chop and this and throw whatever the dog would just go unwavering from point a to point B and the monk said to me at the end he's like it's just like life man he's like if you have a goal just like rainbow's goal is to get from a to B you can't be distracted in your goal and I was like that makes sense some karate kid stuff yeah like wax on yeah like wax on and but all these different lessons started to emerge and it was pretty interesting wow so that that is interesting it's interesting that they're doing it with German Shepherds are really, really smart dogs.

[280] I want, like, what's a dumb dog?

[281] What's like a generally thought of a dumb dog?

[282] I'm trying to think.

[283] I'm trying to think, like, what would generally be thought of as a dumb dog?

[284] There's no, like, prejudices for dogs, right?

[285] Is there?

[286] This is, like, one breed.

[287] You're like, this dumb fucking breed.

[288] I don't think of, like, when, if you say, like, a dumb dog, There's dumb individual dogs, but I don't ever think of like, oh, there's some dogs that are like spastic, right?

[289] Like Jack Russell Terriers are kind of spastic, but that's because they were raised to kill rats, and they're just like, they have a high kill drive and they're super hyper.

[290] But like, I can't think of a dog that's supposed to be stupid, but German Shepers are generally supposed to be smart.

[291] This list is English bulldogs, but I don't know if that's necessarily true.

[292] I think they're just lazy, man. My dog, Brutus is half English bulldog and half Shibu Ino.

[293] He just has bad joints and he's just lazy.

[294] He's just, I don't think he's stupid.

[295] He's kind of a dick.

[296] He's a dick to other dogs, but I just think that's because he's in pain a lot.

[297] These dogs are super smart.

[298] They're so smart, man. Those dogs look at you and they're sizing you up, checking you out, see what the fuck you're up to, making sure you're cool.

[299] But there's this feeling.

[300] Like, they know they could kill you.

[301] like they're looking at you like I could kill you but I'm just checking you out I had that feeling that they could kill me too yeah it's a real feeling yeah they can and they were like I was scared they were sensing that just trying to like down downplay my fear yeah my friend who trains him has a dog that's like he does police work and it's like a serious fucking dog and he'll attack like a thing if you're holding like a stick like on command and he jumps and one of the things he does He bites the stick, and then two paws go right into your nuts.

[302] And I don't think it's on purpose, but damn, it's an effective strategy.

[303] Like, it's like bite and a nut stomp, all in one maneuver.

[304] Right.

[305] Yeah.

[306] But those dogs are, you know, they're a dog that's sort of bred and designed for protection work and police work and stuff.

[307] Yeah.

[308] They are, and they train their dogs as pets, so they didn't do any kind of police work or anything like that.

[309] So the 11 German shepherds that were on the property were super well -behaved.

[310] I mean, like ridiculously well -behaved.

[311] So when they train them, are they just training them to make sure that they're obedient?

[312] You know, they just listen, watch the house, bark at strangers, that kind of shit?

[313] Yeah.

[314] Hand signals, obedient, you know, not jumping.

[315] But really that, you know, they know who's in control.

[316] So did these guys do that before they started running the monastery, or was it something that they decided to do while they had the monastery?

[317] No. So they fell into it.

[318] They didn't go up there.

[319] None of them had any experience in dog training.

[320] That wasn't the intent.

[321] They just said, we got to keep the lights on here.

[322] And they had a dog.

[323] They had a dog as a pet and fell in love with the dog.

[324] And ultimately, when the dog passed away, the dog got killed.

[325] They wanted another dog and they went to a breeder.

[326] And they got two dogs.

[327] And they actually just, they realized that once they bred an amazing puppy, their first litter that and trained these dogs that there was demand and they just scaled it like any other business you know and they learned along the way trial and error just like any entrepreneur I mean these guys are like first of all they were monks and they're super spiritual they're religious they were Russian Orthodox they weren't they're not Buddhist and but they're amazing entrepreneurs I mean like they ran this thing super efficiently but the point would only be be to make enough money to keep the lights on.

[328] Correct.

[329] So as an entrepreneur, it's almost like they're limited in their ambition.

[330] I think excess, you know, it's not like if they have excess money and revenue, it's not going to material things, but it's for the life and the extension of the monastery.

[331] So they would save it and put it away for taxes or what have you.

[332] Yeah, or they have, you know, they're in the hands of God.

[333] They don't have a lot of litters or they don't have a lot of puppies or they have no income.

[334] Right, right.

[335] that's fascinating now these guys what do they do for recreation uh they pray jesus they think they read what do they read and they had like an amazing collection of books fiction everything really super well read so they do have some entertainment in terms of like fiction yeah and you know periods of it and i went up there with no expectation the only like i'd heard of monks i watched i've seen monks in movies and read articles and blogs but I never I didn't know much about it right about the culture certainly about Russian Orthodox and the different factions and this and that so I went up there eyes wide open and but I went up there really just to detach and get away from feeling overloaded and feeling distracted and man I'm a father of four and I have a business and my wife has an entrepreneur etc and I just wanted to see like you know this is kind of my been my journey I learned best by diving into the unknown, just like I did with David.

[336] And just as I've done in businesses and other things, it's just like I learned best by going into the unknown.

[337] So I didn't do a lot of research around them or how they made money or this or that.

[338] I just kind of showed up.

[339] Wow.

[340] That's a crazy undertaking.

[341] But I guess if you knew you only had 15 days, at least you have like some light at the end of the rainbow.

[342] When that 15th day came and would you get in a car and drive away from that?

[343] that place?

[344] Yeah.

[345] How fucking good did you check your phone?

[346] Do you check your text messages?

[347] Felt really good.

[348] On day, what's going on on Twitter?

[349] On day four and five, I was already kind of making excuse, I was rationalizing in my head that seven days would be enough.

[350] So like in my head I was going home day seven.

[351] Oh, really?

[352] Well, I mean, I was like, no one's going to know the difference or care if I went 15 days or seven days or.

[353] Is that like if you're at mile 15?

[354] You're like, that's enough.

[355] It is.

[356] Same kind of thing.

[357] Same kind of thing.

[358] Until you wake up the next day and you're like I dropped out right and you feel like you know so um anyway I decided like you know I'm gonna stick this out and then when I left it was a good feeling and the feeling was proud I felt proud of myself for sticking through it you know isn't that funny these guys have been there for 50 years 50 years man you're like I did two weeks man yeah it felt good I bet it did it also felt good to go into a bed well it's the 50 years when you're describing That seems so insane to me that I can't even relate.

[359] But when you're talking about your 15 days, I'm like, man, you poor bastard.

[360] Like, I feel bad for you.

[361] The guy the 50 years, he might as well be living in another dimension as far as I'm concerned.

[362] The guy, I mean, went in there in his 20s.

[363] That is just so nothing.

[364] No sex, no family, no neighborhood.

[365] Nope.

[366] No fucking hobbies.

[367] No drive to work.

[368] Nope.

[369] And, you know, their impression of it is, like, we made this decision.

[370] So it's not, we didn't sacrifice it.

[371] Like, we decided this is the life we want to live.

[372] But when he made this decision, it was 19, what, 1965 or some shit?

[373] Black and white TVs.

[374] Oh, my God, that's a crazy decision.

[375] That's crazy.

[376] To decide back then.

[377] Like, I see what's coming and I've had enough.

[378] Yeah.

[379] I've had enough.

[380] These daily newspapers.

[381] It's just too much information.

[382] Right, exactly.

[383] That's a crazy time to check out So they don't know what the fuck's going on in the world Did you quiz them on shit?

[384] I didn't really quiz them I mean, every Sunday night There's one TV and one back room And they watch the news So they get a sense of just like You know Kind of where we are state of the union If we're at war Yeah If there's a nuclear meltdown Yeah One hour?

[385] Yeah they watch about an hour On Sunday night.

[386] One night a week And that's how they tune it Who do they trust?

[387] I was going crazy.

[388] I was immediately like my head went to like, I'm sure we're being attacked right now and I'm stuck at the monastery.

[389] Right, right.

[390] I'm sure the airlines aren't flying and I'm stuck here for another 30 days.

[391] Right.

[392] And in my mind went to a place where I was thinking just the worst of everything, you know.

[393] What news do they trust?

[394] I think they trust at all.

[395] But like which channel do they go to?

[396] Oh, they would just watch like, you know, the local ABC.

[397] B, you see the local network.

[398] So whatever's local in upstate New York?

[399] Okay.

[400] There weren't Netflix options.

[401] Do they have internet?

[402] I had no access to the internet.

[403] I think they have access.

[404] Probably for their job.

[405] Yeah.

[406] But I had no access to them.

[407] For the dog training?

[408] Jesus Christ.

[409] It was wild.

[410] But why is that so romantic to people?

[411] Because it is.

[412] It's very romantic.

[413] Right?

[414] There's something about this idea of checking out.

[415] It's just, I had a buddy who did it.

[416] I mean, for all I know, he still does it.

[417] I lost touch with him 25 plus years ago, but he was a Taekwondo guy, and he started to meditate because he was always very nervous about sparring and very nervous about competition.

[418] So, excuse me, he was trying to figure out what was going on.

[419] So he said, let me just take some meditation classes.

[420] He took some meditation classes and really enjoyed it and got really, really into it.

[421] And then one day decided to give up all the worldly possessions and all of the trappings of civilization and move into the monastery.

[422] And I remember we met him for lunch one day.

[423] He'd also become a vegetarian, so he only ate vegetables.

[424] And we were all just hanging around.

[425] And he seemed oddly a piece.

[426] And it was so confusing to me because at the time I was like probably 20.

[427] And I just didn't know what the fuck is going on.

[428] world he was maybe 10 years older than me and this guy just decided i'm i've had enough it's weird to me though he made me nervous like you know like he made me nervous that like he was on to something it made me nervous that he was wiser than me that it highlighted how fucked up i am and you know especially at 20 years it's so life is so chaotic right no idea what the future holds for you if it's going to be success or failure If you're going to slip on every fucking banana peel you run across.

[429] But he seemed to have it figured out.

[430] Sitting there eating vegetables, all common shit.

[431] Where is he now?

[432] I have no idea.

[433] I lost touch with him.

[434] I lost touch with him, you know, probably like 30 years ago.

[435] But when I was 20, those guys freaked me out too.

[436] They must have freaked you out just when you did this book.

[437] I freaked them out.

[438] Really?

[439] I was an alien.

[440] I came in there high energy, you know, rah -rah.

[441] Were you the only guys ever done that?

[442] Probably, probably, at this particular place, I think, for an extended period of time like that, yeah.

[443] Why did they let you do it?

[444] Well, I had written a book prior, living with a seal, and they knew I was coming up there to write a book, and I guess they liked the first book.

[445] Well, I'm sure it'll be good for the dog business, too.

[446] Yeah, yeah.

[447] Yeah.

[448] So they read your book?

[449] They read my book.

[450] Were you allowed to read books while you were there?

[451] I was allowed to.

[452] I brought, I'm not like a big reader, so I figured two books would carry me for 15 days.

[453] But I read them, like, you know, I read both in like the first day, like the first two days.

[454] Yeah.

[455] So then I was like, uh.

[456] Do you check whatever they have?

[457] Oh, look, Mary Poppins.

[458] Yeah.

[459] You can read this stupid shit.

[460] Yeah.

[461] I said I'm good just thinking.

[462] Wow.

[463] So was there any point at like day 13 when you're like, I actually kind of like this?

[464] Yes.

[465] I think around day seven, once I realized, like, you know, I got the excuses out of my head that I'm staying.

[466] I'm not leaving.

[467] I mean, this is what I'm doing.

[468] And I settled into it.

[469] I got tremendously energized because, like, at the monastery, you don't make any decisions.

[470] You eat when they tell you to eat.

[471] You eat what they tell you to eat.

[472] You go to service.

[473] When the church bell rings, you go.

[474] I wore one outfit.

[475] I showered once.

[476] So all these, all the decisions were taken.

[477] away from you.

[478] But when all the decisions are taken away from you, it frees up so much energy.

[479] So I was getting like super clear and I was like, I like this.

[480] This is like no one can get to me. I'm not getting bombarded.

[481] No one can schedule appointments with me. This isn't so bad.

[482] Have you ever done the sensory deprivation tank?

[483] There's the thing about the sensory deprivation, you know what it is, right?

[484] The thing that's most interesting about it is that in the absence of input, your brain is freer and you can make decisions better and think about things better because there's no input coming in.

[485] You don't think about it, but as we're sitting here, just touching this table is input.

[486] You and I look at each other across the lights.

[487] All this is input.

[488] And in that tank, there's no input.

[489] And in the absence of input, it frees up more resources for your brain.

[490] So in a sense, what these monks you're saying are doing by having everything on a schedule, you don't have to think about anything, and there's nothing coming in.

[491] There's no Twitter, Facebook, all that jazz.

[492] You have more resources.

[493] Correct.

[494] And you feel better.

[495] That's exactly right.

[496] And I experienced that.

[497] You know, I think the average American makes like 35 ,000 to 50 ,000 decisions a day.

[498] And there's a real thing called decision fatigue.

[499] Really?

[500] Yeah.

[501] And when you eliminate all, like I remember when I came home, I came home, and the day I got home, My wife is like, sweetie, I'm going to take the kids to school and I'm going to take the blue car.

[502] I was like, cool, take the blue car.

[503] And she came back a minute later.

[504] She's like, you know what?

[505] I didn't take the other car because I want to park and the blue car's too big.

[506] And I was like, all right, cool, take the other car.

[507] And then she came back in.

[508] She goes, you know what?

[509] I'm going to take the blue car because I'm like, Sarah, you're using so much energy already.

[510] It's 7 .45 a .m. on what car to drive?

[511] And I realize, like, that happens all the time.

[512] You know, it's like exhausting, man. Yeah, did you, I'm sorry, go on.

[513] No, no, I'm just saying, like, when, you know, I didn't have any of that.

[514] So it freed up all this energy.

[515] I was making, like, massive lifeless, what I want to do.

[516] I became very aware of my relationship with time.

[517] I mean, when we think of relationships, we think of our relationships with our mom or our dad or our kids or this and that.

[518] But, like, no one thinks of a relationship with time.

[519] And I'm turning 50.

[520] The average American lives to be 78 years old.

[521] So if I'm average, I hope I'm not, but that means I got 28 years.

[522] a life left.

[523] If you reverse engineer that, if you reverse engineer it, you're like, I just climb Mount Washington.

[524] There were no 70 -year -olds climbing Mount Washington.

[525] The actual years that you have left to be active and do the shit that we want to do, they shrink significantly as a percentage as you get older.

[526] So once you get aware of your relationship with time, everything shifts.

[527] And I had a fundamental shift when I came home with, as it relates to my relationship with time and who I want to spend it with and what I want to do.

[528] And I want to put more on my plate of the stuff that I love to do with the people I love to do it with.

[529] And I started getting a lot of clarity around that when I wasn't getting bombarded with everything else.

[530] Like I don't spend any time alone.

[531] The only time I spend alone is if I go for a run.

[532] Everything else is I'm getting influenced by everybody else and everything else.

[533] So I'm losing my main superpower my instinct, which I survive.

[534] I got a 980 on my SAT, man. I survive on instinct and gut.

[535] And I was losing that because I was so distracted.

[536] So once I started to get that alone time, you don't have to go to a monastery to do it.

[537] You just got to, you know, carving out a little bit of time for myself every day.

[538] I just started to think a lot clearer on like, you know, how do I want to live reverse engineer the rest of my life?

[539] Wow.

[540] Do you think this is something you would do on a regular basis?

[541] No, but it's something that I have and I feel like, you know, like I said, like going into the unknown, it gives you an edge, you know, it gives you, you come out of it a little bit different than you go in, it doesn't have to be a monastery, it could be a race, it could be business experience, whatever.

[542] Right, but just doing something different.

[543] Doing it different because, you know, so yeah, I feel like it's, I don't think I would do it again, but I don't think I have to because I already have, I can tap into that when I need Do you think that'll wear off, though?

[544] Because a lot of times, inspiration for people, it's fleeting.

[545] The takeaways won't wear off.

[546] Like, I'm already back on my phone.

[547] I'm back in modern day life.

[548] I'm all fucked up again.

[549] But the main things, like my relationship with time and certain things of, you know, who I want to spend it with and what I want to do and continuing to build what I call my life resume, doing these things that build up my, not my business resume, but my life resume, that's things that I know I want to do more of.

[550] And that will never go away.

[551] So, you know, there's things that came out of it that will last forever.

[552] Like, what kind of adjustments did you make when you came back?

[553] Started saying no. I started prior.

[554] I just, I reversed engineer my life.

[555] So let me give you an example.

[556] My parents are 88.

[557] Okay?

[558] I have a good relationship with my parents.

[559] My parents are 88.

[560] They live in Florida.

[561] I see my parents, let's say my parents live to be, 92 I hope they live longer but let's say they live five years I don't have five years left with my parents I see my parents twice a year that means I have 10 visits with my parents so when I started to look at shit like that I made significant changes like okay I'm gonna get on the plane see my parents and when I'm in those moments my feet are on the ground that's where I am because I only have a limited amount of time with them you understand it's like it's not Five years.

[562] People are like, oh, I got five more.

[563] No, you don't.

[564] How many times you see him, man?

[565] You see him two times a year.

[566] You got 10 visits.

[567] So I just started looking at stuff like that and became really aware when I'm in moments that are big moments to take it in and take note of it.

[568] So it has an impact on me and I appreciate it.

[569] Wow.

[570] Did you shift anything else in your life as far as like what you do with your time during the days?

[571] I did.

[572] So, you know, I started putting parameters around simple things like my.

[573] phone.

[574] So like I was the guy at the movie theater.

[575] I'd be checking my, you know, I forgot the thing.

[576] I'd like look under my shirts so the light doesn't light up and know what you know.

[577] Well, I'm glad at least you did that.

[578] No, but...

[579] Courteous.

[580] Yeah, that's true.

[581] But I put parameters, you know, nothing at, I'm not keeping my phone in at, at night time and, you know, seeing anything come in at five in the morning.

[582] Nothing at the dinner table with my kids.

[583] And so like basic obvious things like that.

[584] But as far as my time, I made two really big changes.

[585] one changes and I kind of always been doing this so I wouldn't necessarily say it was a change but I take three hours a day for myself religiously every day like I literally is new just since the monastery it's it's it's kind of like um it's unwavering since the monastery it's kind of been in my life and out of my life but I just made a pie chart of time it's 24 hours in a day we all have the same pie chart starts the same yeah and I said all I sleep seven hours.

[586] I mean, sometimes I'm out of balance if I'm doing something big.

[587] But right now, six or seven hours, I take three for myself and it's cumulative.

[588] So like I'll take, could be, I'm going to go for an hour run.

[589] I'm going to sit in the sauna for 20 minutes.

[590] I'm going to do fucking nothing.

[591] But when I'm in my time, I'm not mad that I'm not with my kids or my wife or or I'm not mad that I'm not at my office.

[592] Like, that's my time.

[593] And when I'm with my kids, I'm not mad that I'm not at work or whatever, because I don't want to resent.

[594] my wife or my boss or anybody for taking away the shit that i love to do like if they said you can't run you can't go in the sauna i'd be really pissed off i'd be pissed at my wife i'd be pissed at everybody right so i take three hours for myself the average american works 40 hours a week that's eight hours a day you still have six hours left in the day now of course you have to eat you have to commute you got family and this and that but my point is even take 24 hours is a long day.

[595] I learn that running.

[596] You can get a lot of shit done if you keep moving for 24 hours.

[597] Even if you take three hours for yourself, if you get rid of the stuff that doesn't move the needle in the buckets that are most important to you, you can get a lot done.

[598] So I take three hours for myself and that's been, you know, and I'm not mad about it.

[599] I'm not like guilty about it at all.

[600] I feel like I'm way out of balance.

[601] And then the second thing actually didn't come from the monastery, but it was like kind of an offshoot of the monastery.

[602] I was mentioned to you that I climbed Mount Washington.

[603] Mount Washington's, in the winter, is one of the ten most dangerous mountains, I think, to climb, certainly in the states, that's the highest death rate, because the winds go up to about anywhere from, on any given day, 50 to 100 miles an hour, minus 35 degrees, no visibility.

[604] It's fucking, it's just...

[605] A hundred miles an hour.

[606] Yeah.

[607] What the fuck is that like?

[608] I mean, I didn't experience 100, but I experienced super high winds.

[609] Like, what did you experience?

[610] 50?

[611] I didn't get more.

[612] 50, 60, yeah.

[613] What is it all like?

[614] Well, the first, I went twice.

[615] The first time I went to do it, I didn't make it to the summit because it was too dangerous.

[616] I actually timed out.

[617] Like, I don't have enough time to get back to make it.

[618] An altitude?

[619] No, just in.

[620] The amount of darkness?

[621] Yeah, darkness.

[622] It was just gotten too tough to get back down.

[623] Right.

[624] I was with five friends.

[625] no tour guide.

[626] I mean, did everything wrong.

[627] Right.

[628] And I actually came home after that attempt, which was a year ago.

[629] And I was talking to my wife about it.

[630] And I was getting, I posted it on Facebook.

[631] So everybody was blasted.

[632] Did you make it?

[633] You know, Mount Washington is only about four or five miles to the top, 4 .6 miles.

[634] It's just the elements and the weather that make it so hard.

[635] And I said to my wife, I failed.

[636] You know, like I didn't make it.

[637] I feel like an ass.

[638] I'm so disappointed.

[639] You know, I want to go back.

[640] and she said, well, get a tour guide, break in your boots, properly trained for this, and go back next winter and check it off your list.

[641] And I was like, next winter, I'm going back on Saturday.

[642] Next winter.

[643] Like, who knows if I'm going to be healthy enough next winter?

[644] Right.

[645] So I went back next winter, I mean, that Saturday, with the same guys, and we did it.

[646] And then recently this year I took my son, who's eight, not to the top, but we're like, we're going to go camp out.

[647] I want you to experience this.

[648] Got him a minus 40 sleeping bag and all this stuff.

[649] And we went out there with my friend as a police officer in Suffolk County.

[650] He brought his daughter.

[651] And we're sitting out there sleeping outside and fucking freezing.

[652] Fucking freezing.

[653] And I'm all bundled up.

[654] And I turned to him and I'm like, Kevin, how often do you do shit like this?

[655] You know, he's a police officer.

[656] He's the happiest guy's rock star shape.

[657] And he goes, I call it the Kevin rule.

[658] He goes, every year I go on.

[659] one trip a year with my college roommates.

[660] I've been doing it since I'm 21.

[661] And then once every two months, I take a weekend and I do something.

[662] I go camping.

[663] I'll run a marathon.

[664] I'll go hiking.

[665] I'll go to me, whatever, with my family or friends.

[666] And I said to myself, if I can't, going back to your question about time, if I can't take a weekend every eight weeks, once every two months, if I can't carve out a day or two, to take some kind of adventure to put on my, life resume or to collect a moment for me, then my life is out of balance.

[667] I call it the Kevin rule.

[668] And I said, if I live 30 more years, if I live to 80, and I do that for 30 years, that's 150 or 100, basically 150 more fucking amazing memories that I'm going to create.

[669] And that became another one of these time -related, monastery -related urgency rules.

[670] So I just, again, it just became a real big clarity around like man I want to live with urgency and I want to do as much shit as I can and put as much on my plate of the stuff I love to do with the people I love in my life and have it on my resume and that's how I want to live my life forward that's very inspiring so when you decided to cut out or carve out three hours a day for yourself what was the first shit that you eliminated literally just saying no to the request for my time like what kind of shit Hey, you have, Jess, can you think you can meet me for lunch?

[671] I want to talk to you about a business idea that I have in the beverage space.

[672] I know that you had your coconut water.

[673] I want to talk to you about that.

[674] No. I'm going for a run.

[675] Yeah.

[676] Oh, no, I don't want any money.

[677] I don't want any money.

[678] I just want to talk to you for 15 minutes.

[679] A friend of my, no. You think on Friday night you can come down for 50 and see this, no, because it's cumulative.

[680] Right.

[681] It's not one or, I mean, listen, I made my...

[682] It's not one person ever.

[683] No. No. It's going to be one person every day or so with some new request.

[684] So that was the first shift.

[685] And the second thing is for the, and I put myself first, you know.

[686] And a lot of times I don't, but in certain times I do.

[687] And I realized that I was, this is kind of, might be a little bit more specific.

[688] But I realized, I love football.

[689] I watch a lot of football, man. I realized that I was watching two games, college game on Saturday, fantasy football, Sunday, I'm locked in, Sunday night game, Monday night, Thursday night, and I realized that if, at this point, if I live to be 85, whatever, that would be 36 ,000 hours of football, 36 ,000 hours of football that I'd be watching.

[690] Now, throw in some of the fights, throwing some of the other stuff, it's like, I just took the plug out.

[691] And I freed up these 36 ,000 hours.

[692] My wife said, what do you mean you're going to go live in the monastery?

[693] I'm like, it's 15 days, sweetie.

[694] I just freed up 36 ,000 hours.

[695] You get the benefit of that.

[696] I'm going for 15 days.

[697] So I freed up the time by eliminating stuff that, like, fucking didn't move the needle.

[698] So you stopped watching football?

[699] Totally.

[700] I still watch it, but, I mean, I became very aware of it.

[701] And I'll just like, I still watch it, but I check in.

[702] I'm not sitting around on Sunday.

[703] Nothing wrong with it.

[704] It's just it wasn't moving the, needle in my family, my finances, or my wellness.

[705] But what about recreation time?

[706] Like, does recreation time, is that valuable, like, enjoying things?

[707] Like, sitting back and watching a good movie, enjoying it?

[708] Absolutely.

[709] And I do.

[710] I do.

[711] But I'm not, you know.

[712] I'm asking for myself as much as I'm asking for you.

[713] Yeah.

[714] I mean, I think, look, you got to be happy and do the things you like to do.

[715] But, you know, again, for me, I look at it.

[716] I look at it very simply.

[717] I got three or four buckets.

[718] I got my family, my wellness, my finances, and causes that are important to me. And, you know, if it's not moving the needle in those four buckets, it's really just a distraction.

[719] Honestly.

[720] Now, that doesn't mean I'm not going to go to a movie.

[721] That's family.

[722] That's well, it's part of my wellness.

[723] Relaxing is part of my wellness.

[724] You want to go, but, you know, those are kind of, everything else kind of gets to know.

[725] Like, going to lunch to look at someone else's idea in a category.

[726] I don't really know much about because they want to maybe get to me or they want my wife.

[727] No. You should make a T -shirt.

[728] I've said, listen.

[729] I get it.

[730] When I was starting out as an entrepreneur when I was 20 years old, you know, and I was cleaning kitty pools and in the music business, I was doing all this stuff.

[731] I laugh at a lot of jokes that weren't funny.

[732] I know what you mean.

[733] You know what I mean?

[734] Yeah.

[735] To get deals, to get stuff.

[736] laugh and I'm sick of laughing at jokes that aren't funny that's actually very funny like you saying that is very funny it's a smart thing to do but in the beginning it's very hard right because you're trying to get momentum you're trying to establish relationships you're you want people to like you you don't want to dead face a stupid joke exactly and then have people go fuck that jessie guy that guy's a dick i'm not doing anything with him so you laugh yeah hmm so do you organize your time like very specifically now and did you do that in the past I do now I didn't in the past because you know in the past I do it I'm not do anything I say yes to to action things without really thinking them through very often right now what I do is I have a third grade a three year old system I have two notebooks I'm a kind of old school I don't really operate well keeping stuff in phones I just take everything that comes comes into my head, I dump it out of my head to free up space in my head.

[737] So I have one journal that has everything I need to do.

[738] And I just do that to get it out of my head.

[739] So I don't have to remember that I have to get my son's friend's eight -year -old birthday present for Saturday.

[740] I just write it down.

[741] It doesn't mean it goes away, but it's out of my head.

[742] Right.

[743] And then I have my daily, from that list, I pick the most important things that have to get done.

[744] And then the night before I write them down or the beginning of the week, I just knock them out, man. And how long ago was it that you went to this monastery and did this 15 day, a year ago?

[745] One year ago.

[746] And has this enthusiasm or this feeling waned at all?

[747] No. Wow.

[748] That's really interesting.

[749] Do you think you conveyed that in the book?

[750] I do.

[751] I mean, I've been living, I feel like I've been living my life like this even before the monastery, just reinforced a lot of things.

[752] I think combined.

[753] with the fact that for some reason you know I'm turning 50 it's had it's fucking with me in a way that I didn't think it would and I don't know how you how old do you 50 yeah so I don't know if you had the same impact on you but like you know there's not a day that goes by where I don't say to myself man in 30 years you're turning 80 like you want to live with you look at you want to live with urgency yeah and you know all those my enemy is the clock I feel like my enemy is the clock and there's a lot of stuff I want to do in my life and my enemy is the clock do you feel like you live in the moment enough absolutely you do I do because that would be the worry right like if you're constantly worrying about damn 20 years I'm gonna be 70 30 years I'm gonna be 80 if you keep doing that like there there are people that look ahead too much and don't just I've talked to people that are 20 like fuck I can't believe I'm 20 and like listen motherfucker you just turn 20 dude relax you don't think it's just 20 you're a baby no man i'm gonna be fucking 30 in 10 years like you shut the fuck up you're 20 now i use it as a motivator and i remember i remember when i was starting out i was 21 years old this is a crazy story uh i just got dropped from a record label i was signed to a record label called delicious vinyl what did you do i was a i was a rap record on delicious you were a rapper i was a rapper signed to delicious with tone loke and young MC.

[754] Oh, get the fuck out of here.

[755] So my album doesn't get picked, I don't get picked up for a second album, and I moved to New York City.

[756] I have two things on my resume.

[757] Kiddy pool attendant, because I was a kiddie pool attendant, and rapper.

[758] So I'm staying on my friend's couch, living on his couch with his roommate, and he tells me on Monday, I got to get out of the apartment.

[759] So instead of going to look for a new apartment over the weekend, I go to my friend's bachelor party on the Jersey Shore.

[760] I'm at the bachelor party.

[761] I'm getting a drink at the bar, this girl.

[762] I start chatting with her.

[763] She asked me where I live.

[764] I told her actually as of Monday I have nowhere to go.

[765] She takes out a napkin.

[766] She writes her address on the napkin.

[767] I'm 21 years old.

[768] And she says if it's an emergency on Monday and you're stuck, you can come live with me. Monday comes.

[769] I get kicked out of my friend's apartment.

[770] I have nowhere to go.

[771] I'm like, this is an emergency.

[772] I take out the napkin and I live with this girl and her roommate for six months.

[773] It turns out that her father is a big entrepreneur, business, he owns a piece of the Yankees, just like monster mogul.

[774] I write this song for the New York Knicks called Go New York Go.

[775] And it becomes a big success.

[776] You remember that song?

[777] No, no. Okay.

[778] That's okay.

[779] That's okay.

[780] I'm not a sports fan.

[781] That's fine.

[782] It becomes a big hit.

[783] And I just realized that there's an opportunity to write theme songs for all these professional sports teams, but I don't have a penny to go in the studio to do the demos to shop them to the team.

[784] So, I need money.

[785] So I go to this music guy and he says, I'll give you $10 ,000 to go and do these songs for 10 % of everything you make for the rest of your life.

[786] He wants to buy me like a stop.

[787] For the rest of your life?

[788] I'm 21.

[789] He's like, for the rest of your life, everything you do.

[790] I will invest in you.

[791] You own an airplane business.

[792] He owns 10 % forever.

[793] Yes.

[794] You have to kill him then.

[795] Yes.

[796] Yeah.

[797] You have to kill that guy.

[798] But I need the 10 grand.

[799] So I say I'll take it.

[800] So before I take it, I go to this girl's father for advice, this business mogul that I'm living with.

[801] And I sit down, I go to this guy's apartment, again, I'm 21.

[802] He's got, in his apartment, he's got a swimming pool, artwork, like fancy.

[803] A swimming pool.

[804] He's macked out, man. It's like I've never seen anything like this.

[805] In Manhattan?

[806] In Manhattan.

[807] I'm just setting the stage of this conversation.

[808] And I go in and I tell him the story about.

[809] the 10 % and he says to me I would trade this is exactly what he said to me I will trade everything that I have for you to get out of my daughter's life exactly I'll trade everything I have for the one thing that you have and I'm like man I'm fucking broke what he talk me I go what's that and he said youth because he had already gone through the journey even though he had everything he already had gone through the process he wasn't that 20 year old that you're talking about that whatever he had gone through it he had it all he he missed the process the journey right of being you coming up at 20 and not know like yeah here you are but it was that those were the years man right right the first fight the first this like that that that's what that's what makes you like so and that's stuck with me man at 21 years old it's stuck with me and realized that like man I got to enjoy the process and it's really never rubbed off on me from me well why didn't that guy how old was this guy at the time the old rich dude he was let's see he must have been in his 60s why don't he just do shit do a bunch of shit he did lounging around his fucking swimming pool he did he did he had an amazing he was 20 he had an amazing life he had an amazing life so what did you wind up doing uh he said the second the second part of that conversation he said do you um will you um will you you make this work on your own?

[810] I said, I think I can.

[811] He said, I didn't ask you if you can.

[812] He said, I said, will you make it work?

[813] I said, I will.

[814] He said, then go tell the guy to fuck off and make it, and it goes, and go make it work.

[815] And I did.

[816] So how'd you get it funded then?

[817] I somehow got, I went to the Dallas Mavericks after the Knicks and told them that I convinced them to give me a $2 ,500, the Knicks paid me, this is just a crazy part of my life, but they gave me $2 ,500 to do the demo, and then they bought the song for like $20 ,000 and that funded the rest of the business that I ultimately sold to a public company.

[818] Wow, that's crazy, and you almost gave away 10 % of your whole life.

[819] That guy who wanted 10 % is a piece of shit.

[820] What a motherfucker.

[821] Like that's a, like people, it's just business, just business.

[822] And I had no went to go to.

[823] No, he's taking advantage of a 21 -year -old kid who's just got some dreams and need some cash and 10 grand to him is probably nothing.

[824] I called my father.

[825] My father owned the plumbing supply house in Minneapolis Long Island and during this time in my thing.

[826] And my father said, you know, I love him to death.

[827] But he's like, you know, do what you think is best.

[828] He just didn't, you know, I didn't know what to turn to.

[829] I had no one to turn to.

[830] Yeah.

[831] Don't give up 10 % of your life ever.

[832] That's just crazy.

[833] Someone asked for that.

[834] But you hear things like, I mean, this is similar to what they do in the music business.

[835] Like how the music business treats artists.

[836] They essentially sign you to these contracts and then take a piece of everything.

[837] They take a piece of if you do a movie.

[838] They take a piece of your live performances, your merchandise sales, everything.

[839] They just say, look, we'll help you out a little bit.

[840] But, you know, we want you.

[841] Right.

[842] Yeah.

[843] I mean, at least you're in a contract, though.

[844] there's some creepy contracts that they used to do in the old days of Hollywood that were similar to that, right?

[845] They just take a PCF forever.

[846] Yeah.

[847] You know, when I signed my music deal, I didn't care.

[848] I was like, you could take whatever you want, man. Get me on MTV.

[849] Right, of course.

[850] Yeah, because you're young.

[851] Well, that's the whole idea.

[852] The reason why these exploitation contracts work is because in the beginning you're just so desperate and what you have is what they don't have.

[853] You have talent, right?

[854] You have as you're creative.

[855] You're young and full of energy.

[856] and you've got something exciting that people want to look at.

[857] And so what they do is they go, oh, look, we've got a way through the door, but we want 75 % of the profits.

[858] We want a little bit of this.

[859] And you don't get any money back until we recoup our money that we spent on executives and parking and car leases.

[860] And they calculate all that shit, how much the fucking building costs, how much electricity, all that stuff they count.

[861] You've seen those, I'm sure.

[862] Oh, yeah.

[863] Those contracts.

[864] They're fucking scary.

[865] I've signed them.

[866] I've signed you know my own way yeah but you know it's part of the process and no leverage no leverage that's the thing they've got the leverage but now and now they don't have the leverage but they still figure out a way to pull it off it's really weird because who the fuck is buying an albums now no one no one and yet these record companies are still figuring out how cling on to you like a lamprey and suck blood out they're still staying alive and their fat fingers driving their fat Mercedes -Benz, they know how to do it.

[867] They just figure out a way to grab people that are just getting popping, you know, and just sign and then figure out a way to get in with these fucking streaming companies.

[868] Have you paid attention to any of that shit?

[869] A little bit, yeah.

[870] That's the darkest.

[871] It's even darker than the music distribution.

[872] Yeah.

[873] Because the artists get like no money.

[874] Point O -O -O -O -1.

[875] Stephen Tyler was talking.

[876] about it with me it's just he was explaining it and there's a this it's the company's actually or the organization's actually called m a what is something what did it stand for musicians for some sort of an act where they're you know trying to stop these streaming companies from ripping off these artists music modernization act yeah it's dark yeah but it's along the same lines it's like people figuring out a way to just take something from somebody because you need it.

[877] You know, you're broke.

[878] You're desperate.

[879] You signed a contract.

[880] Oh, you got it by contract.

[881] And as soon as they, and then music that was invented, like, how do they put Led Zeppelin on the streaming service?

[882] You know, they, there was no streaming when that should be a whole new contract, right?

[883] I don't know.

[884] It's true with audio books too.

[885] You know, I mean, even books now and all these old publications, they never envisioned that there would be, you know, e -books and audio books and all these different distribution areas.

[886] I would imagine that audiobooks probably mirror the sales of regular books now.

[887] I know so, I mean, at least in my circle, I know so many people who just use audiobooks and they hardly ever read.

[888] And what they've essentially done is taking that commuter time that was just dead air and filled it up with books i can't when when i when seal when i when i did the seal book i couldn't believe how many people hit me about the audio because i did my own audio book and i just couldn't i didn't even what year was that came out two years ago and it just never dawned on me that people even listened to audio books right you know i'd when it made me angry that i did the read so quickly i was like i should have invested a little bit more time like gotten a coach or something right you know I just, like, read it.

[889] What percentage of your books were audio versus paper?

[890] It's a good question.

[891] I'm going to guess about 30%, maybe 40, 40, 40%, maybe 40, 40%, so it's closing in.

[892] It is.

[893] Yeah.

[894] Because, you know, people can now speed it up a little bit so they can get through it quicker.

[895] Yeah, it's so weird.

[896] You know, when they're...

[897] People do that with podcasts.

[898] Right.

[899] So the listeners are right now.

[900] They're listening to us right now, like we're on speed.

[901] Yeah.

[902] Yeah.

[903] Now, when you're done with this book and, you know, you get back from this monk thing and you realize that this has made like some sort of a fundamental shift in the way you live your life and you put this book out, is there a real sense that people who read this book are going to get that from you?

[904] And, I mean, are you aware that you're probably going to change the way a lot of people live their lives?

[905] I hope so.

[906] I mean, I don't know if they'll change their lives, but I think it, I hope, that it helps them look through things through a different lens and, you know, make their own decisions.

[907] You know, one of the takeaways from the book isn't so much specific around the monastery.

[908] It's around this notion of building your life resume, you know, and just stepping into the unknown.

[909] Because to me, that's, for me, that's where I learned the best.

[910] I mean, I could get a traditional coach or go to seminars or experts, but I just don't learn.

[911] I learned by going into the unknown.

[912] And I hope it just motivates people to have a little bit more urgency and do stuff like that.

[913] You have to go to a monastery.

[914] Right.

[915] But, you know, there's an old Japanese ritual.

[916] You might be familiar with it.

[917] I don't know, called the Masogi.

[918] And the thought around the Misogi is, it was introduced to me to me by Kyle Korver, played at the Hawks for the Atlanta Hawks.

[919] And the notion around the Misoggi is you do something so hard one time a year.

[920] that it has an impact the other 364 days of the year on you.

[921] That you go so far beyond, you know, for me, that was my 100 -mile run.

[922] I mean, I can look back since 2008.

[923] I've had moments like that every year.

[924] But the, and I believe in that.

[925] I believe in that.

[926] And I don't know why I just brought that up, but it's true.

[927] And so it's just kind of one of the themes around this urgency.

[928] and you know creating memories etc yeah i think there's things like that sort of highlight that urgency that if you just live your life like at the same steady static pace maybe sometimes you don't feel it as much like like i'm sure after you did your 100 mile run like when it was over you probably it probably felt so good to relax oh well first of all for me the the pressure around completing the run.

[929] When I did the run, I raised millions of dollars for charity.

[930] And everyone in my world knew I was doing it.

[931] I gave myself 90 days to train for it.

[932] What's normal?

[933] I would say for the people in the shape that I was in going into it, probably a year, eight months, six months.

[934] I mean, I mean, I gave myself 90 days.

[935] I started in August and the race was 90 days later.

[936] And everyone in my world was donating or involved or knew about it so if I didn't finish it so much can go wrong in a hundred mile run you know like something goes wrong in a marathon at mile 19 you got it out you got seven more miles left you know something goes wrong at mile 19 you have 81 miles left you can't gut most people can't gut that out I don't think I could I felt so relieved when it was done because I was just like man I did it and no one can take it away from me What was the longest you had written, wrote, not written, ran before that?

[937] I ran two 50s.

[938] Two 50s.

[939] Two 50 miles.

[940] I mean, I never did miles.

[941] I did time.

[942] So I did two 10 hour, about 10 hour runs twice.

[943] And 50 miles in those 10 hours?

[944] Probably around there.

[945] Somewhere on there.

[946] So, but you knew that you were at the halfway mark roughly and you could push through the rest.

[947] I knew that if I got to 50 miles, if I could get to 50 miles and 10 hours, I could basically, even injured, walk the rest in the allocated time.

[948] Now, after that was over, and after you did do that 100 miles, how much of a shift did that make in the way you thought about time and effort?

[949] Totally changed my life.

[950] Completely, completely talking about this Misogi.

[951] It completely changed my life.

[952] That was in 2006, I think, that I did the run, and it's completely changed my life.

[953] Because when I started running, my goal was to run two miles.

[954] If I could run two miles in 18 minutes, nine minute pace, I consider myself a runner.

[955] And I worked towards that goal, like out of college.

[956] I was like, just got out of college.

[957] I'm like, I'm going to try to run two miles, you know?

[958] Like, it took me a little to get there in nine minute pace.

[959] And fast forward, I ran this, nothing in my body changed.

[960] This is the same legs guy gave me, same lugs guy gave me. I'm not very strong.

[961] Nothing's changed.

[962] But I took that two -mile body and ran 100 miles.

[963] And I bet almost a lot of people that are listening this could run two miles with a gun to their head.

[964] They could run two miles if they had to.

[965] And the only thing that changed was the way I perceived what I thought I could do in this run.

[966] And I realized after the race that, holy shit, I did 50X what my initial goal was.

[967] like I was under indexing 50x in this category of my life what are the areas of my life Jesse what other areas of your life man are you under indexing in like okay if your sales quota at marquee jet my company was 20 jet cards is that because I knew I could get it and it was comfortable or should I be like man put me on the board for 40 fellas this month let me see what the fuck I can do right I was living in this like comfort I was going through life like this routine and routines are great but routines can also be a rut you can't get better in a routine and if you get so when you're in a routine time goes fast when you're out of your routine time goes slow so I was so comfortable in my routine I was like man fuck it I don't want to go through life like this I want to go through life like this you know and I was people are listening you're going up I'm going up most people are listening yeah I'm sorry so I'm sorry people do this all the time I'm just locked down even know where people are listening yeah I'm locked into you.

[968] I was going flat, you know, I was just doing the same shit.

[969] And you want a nice 45 degree upward angle.

[970] Yeah.

[971] So this run showed me, man, I was under indexing so much what I thought I was capable of.

[972] And it made me think like, what else am I capable of?

[973] What about recovery?

[974] Like, what was it like when you were done?

[975] Well, at mile 94, I realized I had six toenails in my shoe so that was an uncomfortable feeling and when I felt them rattling around and when I took my shoes off my feet were so fucked up is it because your feet swell while you're running and you if you have like a size 10 you're supposed to swap out to a size 11 later that's how it works I swapped I want to size up but I had blisters I had bad blisters my blisters were really bad and um bad before you ran or no I got them as I was going And they looked like, it literally looked like I had swallowed red grapes and they went to the bottom of each of my toe.

[976] I mean, it was just, so I was in a wheelchair for four days after the race.

[977] Four days.

[978] Just because of the bottom, the blisters and, you know.

[979] But so for me, for me, it's like a regular guy.

[980] It was a very powerful moment for me, you know.

[981] And it was worth it.

[982] It was all well, well, well worth it.

[983] Once I was done, and I realized, like, I'm okay.

[984] I'm not in shock.

[985] I'm not dehydrated.

[986] I'm just in super pain.

[987] That was a great moment.

[988] And I have a regret from that race.

[989] Like, one of the biggest regrets in my life.

[990] Like, I don't like the way I finished the race.

[991] I ran 99 miles.

[992] The last mile took me 48 minutes and literally had to, like, grab my brother's shoulders.

[993] And, like, I just, if I could do it all over, I wanted to really finish that, like, a champion, you know?

[994] And I was just very disappointed.

[995] happy about it but I also have one of my biggest regrets from the race is just that you know I got to that moment where and I just didn't finish it the way I wanted to finish it what was wrong oh man my fucking joints like my hips and my knees were just like swollen just so much from just so much pain they were just it was just so at 75 I felt I just kind of like was running and then all of a sudden I was on the ground because like I just buckled because it was my joints not my muscles just like my you know like I said if you if you roll your thumb around for 24 hours your thumb's going to fall off right you know it's just just that motion and pounding and and and I didn't know what I was wearing cotton I was like I did everything wrong you know but I did it and when you did get done with that in the wheelchair for four days how long did it take before your body felt normal like your joints normalized and your hips and your knees.

[996] It took about a little over two weeks.

[997] Wow.

[998] Yeah.

[999] So you're just hobbling around for two weeks thinking about it.

[1000] I'm still impacted by it.

[1001] Really?

[1002] How so?

[1003] I like a huge cyst from all the stress on my foot that I've had.

[1004] You're making a ham -sized when you say you're holding your hands.

[1005] Like you have a skull on your desk.

[1006] How big was it?

[1007] Like big enough I couldn't wear shoes.

[1008] What?

[1009] I had to wear sneakers that, like, yeah, it was, I'll show you a picture.

[1010] Did you get it removed?

[1011] I got it drained twice, and then I went to like a real, like an almost fruitarian diet and went away.

[1012] Fruitarian, just all fruit.

[1013] Why did that do it?

[1014] I, uh, I don't know.

[1015] Huh.

[1016] Yeah.

[1017] Did you try fruits with vegetables or fruits with anything else?

[1018] So I, I, for 27 years, I've only had fruit until 12 o 'clock noon.

[1019] That's all I eat in the morning.

[1020] But I extended that out further.

[1021] and it went away on its own from fruit i don't know if that's the reason maybe over it just went away right um but i made some significant changes in my diet yeah so but what led you to be the fruitarian idea uh i read a book called fit for life when i was uh 20 right before my first marathon i was 21 or 22 years old like looking for an edge and in the book it challenges the reader to uh try to to eat one of the principles of the book is to only eat fruit until noon we can talk about it but it challenges the reader to try it for 10 days and then day 11 go back to your regular breakfast and see how you feel so I did like I can invest 10 days to try this and on day 11 I went back to oatmeal and toast or whatever and I was like oh my god man I felt so sluggish right and like bloated and I was like I never went back and it's and that that's unwavering I'm unwavering on that I run marathon.

[1022] Never changes.

[1023] Fruit till noon.

[1024] And so that's why.

[1025] Now, what are these people eat in the monastery?

[1026] So they have a very light breakfast that suited me well.

[1027] They have fruit in the morning.

[1028] And then their lunch, they call dinner.

[1029] That's their big meal.

[1030] So the afternoon meal is like dinner.

[1031] And then at night, it was super light, like soup and salad or whatever.

[1032] So it's really like almost one meal a day.

[1033] Are they vegetarian?

[1034] Some were, but others weren't.

[1035] That's interesting.

[1036] Not all of them were, which was interesting.

[1037] Did you expect them to be?

[1038] I did.

[1039] I lost a lot of weight there.

[1040] I lost like 17 pounds, 15, 17 pounds.

[1041] In two weeks?

[1042] Yeah.

[1043] Why so?

[1044] What do you think it's lack of sugar?

[1045] Yeah, no carbs, lack of sugar, one meal a day.

[1046] They don't eat any bread or?

[1047] They did, I didn't.

[1048] You know, I wanted to put a little asterisk next to my thing.

[1049] I went in there saying to myself, I didn't want to have.

[1050] I wanted to come back clean.

[1051] So I really try not to have any grains.

[1052] And I did have some grains, but not a lot.

[1053] And I walked a lot.

[1054] I walked 120 miles over the time I was there, up and down their driveway.

[1055] And so I lost a lot of weight.

[1056] I gained it all back, but at the time, yeah.

[1057] Now, these people that live this life, do they have something they're working towards?

[1058] Do they have an idea that they're working towards?

[1059] I mean, when you press them on it and ask them, like, why are you here?

[1060] Do you ever plan on leaving?

[1061] Do you ever see yourself going somewhere else?

[1062] That's a really good question.

[1063] I asked them all those questions.

[1064] So, no, they felt like that was their calling.

[1065] They're calling.

[1066] They were doing what they were supposed to be doing.

[1067] And that they were committed to that lifestyle.

[1068] So, no, there was no thought of going back.

[1069] There have been monks that have left the monastery.

[1070] Just wasn't the right lifestyle for them.

[1071] But the monks that were there when I was there, you know, 50 years, they were committed and they're not going anywhere.

[1072] But that's what's confusing to me. Like I understand that they're enjoying and I understand that they like that life, but that it's a calling.

[1073] Like the calling to do nothing or just think.

[1074] Sacrifice, serve God, live a life of purity.

[1075] this is not right I couldn't do it but I think that's kind of the mindset around it and step away from the regular life that they were living what's interesting is that they weren't born into the monastery right a lot of these guys made this decision in their 20s 30s you know so what were their jobs before they did it all over the board all over the board literally one guy guy, I mean, one of the monks was a lifeguard as a teenager.

[1076] Wow.

[1077] I mean, just all over the board.

[1078] So, but regular jobs just always felt connected to God and connected to this higher living a life just, you know, under these terms.

[1079] Well, what's fascinating to me is that you're saying that they're so happy because if you get a, I mean, how many people are in this monastery?

[1080] Eight.

[1081] And they're all male?

[1082] Yes.

[1083] Eight men.

[1084] If you get eight random men in their first.

[1085] you know what's the youngest age of the guys over there 35 35 up to 70s you get eight random 35 to 70s and ask how many of them are happy actually truly happy maybe two right how many people do you think are happy well they just did a study there's a famous harris study on happiness in this country i think 67 % of people are unhappy that is fucked here's what here i did this joe you'll this is a good test maybe you'll want to do this i did this when i was speaking at an event for 500 Wall Street people recently and it was fascinating.

[1086] I'll take you through it, you can tell me if you're comfortable with it.

[1087] But if you take all the areas of your life and put them in a blender, okay?

[1088] So take where you live, your relationships, your finances, your health, everything, everything.

[1089] Put it in one fucking big blender and blend it up.

[1090] And on a scale of one at 10, with a 10 being the Dalai Lama of Happiness, and a one being a guy that's at rock, a zero, being someone that's rock bottom what's your happiness number me yeah i'm pretty fucking happy well i don't know i wouldn't do it that way i definitely wouldn't give it a number okay because i feel like that you're you're making something you're you're turning like a constant state of thinking and expression and consideration you're turning it into a number and i just i don't like that idea i don't like that idea because i think think it's a management issue.

[1091] I think a lot of what happiness is is a management issue and decisions that you're making right now, like you could be in a shit state of mind right now, but you could make some decisions to adjust that and over the next couple hours, you'll get to a much better place.

[1092] And these constant management decisions, they waver in and out of your life on a daily basis.

[1093] Like this idea that you could have a good mindset and then all of a sudden you'll be happy.

[1094] That's horseshit.

[1095] Like, it's like, it's like the tide.

[1096] It comes in and it comes out.

[1097] There's going to be days where you're just not feeling so good physically, and that's going to affect the way your happiness level is.

[1098] It's never static.

[1099] It's never exactly the same.

[1100] True.

[1101] But if you looked at it overall at 30 ,000 feet and you had to give yourself a grade.

[1102] It's happy as fuck, is what I would say.

[1103] I'm pretty happy.

[1104] Okay.

[1105] So I'll take that.

[1106] I'll take that.

[1107] Most people in that room raised there.

[1108] I said, if anyone is, seven and you know for anyone that listening that wants to do it raise your hand if you're you know seven or below I don't want to put anyone in the spot and majority of the room stood up right being a seven and thinking you know like seven's a pretty happy number but a seven if my son comes home with a 70 on a test it's a C minus right and all I'm saying is what what's interesting about the test though if you do actually go through the process for those that like go through and get a number in their head or whatever or do want to give themselves a grade.

[1109] Your brain automatically goes to a 10 and then subtracts the two or three things pop in that bring your happiness down.

[1110] It's a great way to identify what's making you unhappy.

[1111] And that, you know what I mean?

[1112] Like you started at 10, you're like, oh, fuck, my relationship or this or that.

[1113] Usually it triggers an automatic like this is what's fucked up in my life response.

[1114] And it helps you identify.

[1115] But it's interesting.

[1116] We have benchmarks in so many things in our life.

[1117] You have an IQ test.

[1118] You have tax brackets to measure your, your wealth or financial statements.

[1119] You have IQ tests, like I said, you can get on a scale to measure your weight.

[1120] But you're right.

[1121] Happiness is one of those things.

[1122] It's like, how do you benchmark it?

[1123] You know what I mean?

[1124] It kind of fluctuates.

[1125] It's like hunger.

[1126] I mean, it's something that goes in and out.

[1127] It's always there.

[1128] But happy as fuck is a good answer.

[1129] Yeah, but this is something I've cultivated for a long time and avoided things that make me unhappy and figured out what those things are and been very rigid about eliminating them from my life.

[1130] And one of the big ones is eliminating interactions with people that are negative.

[1131] That is gigantic.

[1132] And because I've realized that I'm not really as independent as I used to like to think I was, I used to like to think that my thought process was independent and that I don't give a fuck what anybody thinks.

[1133] That's nonsense.

[1134] people say that because they absolutely care what people think and it bothers them so they say i don't give a fuck but that i don't give a fuck stuff is almost entirely nonsense you do care and you care in both ways you care if people are critical of you care if people are positive of you but you also care if people are living positive lives and they're motivating you that's that's a big one people are fuel and other people it's one of the reasons why i like talking to people one of the reasons why i like to do podcast because I get a lot out of, you know, like just talking to you about your time in the monastery or your push to get to that hundred miles.

[1135] Like, you get energy out of people like that.

[1136] And you think about this energy and you think about this inspiration when you're doing other things.

[1137] And it also sets in your mind that when you meet these exceptional people that move you, like, what are the characters, what are the qualities that they have?

[1138] What are the characteristics that they possess?

[1139] And those things become significant and important to you.

[1140] Whereas if you live around a bunch of people that are complaining and bitching about everything and they see the negative in everything and they're always whining, those people are the opposite of that.

[1141] They're the opposite of inspiration and they're just, they're mud.

[1142] You're just like, it's like you're up to your ankles in mud.

[1143] You try to trudge through life.

[1144] It's difficult.

[1145] You're not light.

[1146] It's not pushing you.

[1147] There's not a wind at your back.

[1148] The wind's in your face and it's rough.

[1149] you know and over time I've learned that these people you just you're not going to fix them I used to want to fix them when I was young I used to want to go hey man I see what you're doing like dude don't do that anymore listen just try just just do this and stop doing that and start doing this and if you just work towards this you could be successful and then a week later the guy's doing the same shit you're like okay I'm wasting a significant amount of my energy on someone who doesn't want to waste any of their energy on themselves And so managing the community and the tribe that you're in, making sure that you're a good member of that tribe, that you're doing your part, you know, and there's a lot of cynicism in these days about inspiration and about motivation because there's a lot of fake shit.

[1150] You know, you can go on Instagram and you see a million of these inspirational quote pages and they're run by people that are probably depressed.

[1151] You know, you see a lot of people that are, you know, talking about how to get ahead in life, but they're not really doing anything themselves.

[1152] So there's a lot of cynicism involved in that.

[1153] But there's also sincerity in it.

[1154] And you can get, if you just look at it with a pure heart and a pure mind, you can get a lot of energy out of that.

[1155] And when you're around happy, inspirational people that are successful, it makes you feel better.

[1156] And you get inspired.

[1157] And if you act on that inspiration, your life will be more fulfilled.

[1158] And it's not just inspirational in terms of financial success, but in terms of doing difficult things, whether it's running 100 miles, it doesn't pay you a goddamn thing other than the wealth of the knowledge that you can push yourself to such an extreme or anything else, whether it's someone who becomes really good at playing chess or someone who's really good at martial arts or whatever it is.

[1159] There's a great feeling in overcoming these difficult things because life is never this just constant state of I'm at a nine all day.

[1160] And when I'm with my wife, I hit 10.

[1161] Yay!

[1162] And I stay like that.

[1163] That's not real.

[1164] What's real is like you saying that you went to this monastery and felt all this angst about meditating and being alone and not having your phone and not.

[1165] not having the input.

[1166] But then when it comes out of it, then you have this reward.

[1167] So you push through this and you had these uncomfortable feelings and you came out of those uncomfortable feelings with this newfound appreciation for time and this newfound respect for your own existence and your own space and carving out three hours for yourself a day.

[1168] That's where it all comes from.

[1169] It all comes from life lessons and the lessons are learned through struggle.

[1170] and I think that there's a lot of people out there that think somehow or another you're going to get to some place where you're living in silk sheets and you're getting your toes done while someone's dropping grapes into your mouth I don't want that I've never wanted that that guy's not going to be happy he's going to be bored an hour into the grapes you can get those fucking grapes away from me stop painting my toes what am I doing in this bed I got to do something I'm not stimulated the human organism the animal that we are needs constant stimulation because it evolved trying to find food and escape enemies.

[1171] And find shelter, escape nature, escape the elements, try to survive.

[1172] And this is the great joy that you have and taking care of your children, that you can protect your children from the elements and the enemies and feed them.

[1173] And it's also the great sadness that you see in losers.

[1174] When I see a loser, I see some guy who's 43 years old, lives in his parents' basement, and he fucking hates the world.

[1175] I'm like, that was a baby.

[1176] Man, this is a baby that somebody just gave.

[1177] shitty nutrients to, whether it's nutrients in the forms of food or in the form of thoughts and ideas and examples, and this kid developed these horrible, self -defeating patterns of behavior that have led them to this point, where they're this middle -aged person with no future and no idea of how to get out of this rut and probably never will escape it and might just wind up sucking on a gun.

[1178] You know, I mean, this is the world that we live in today.

[1179] And I think part of that world is because we have been fed this line of horse shit that you're supposed to seek comfort.

[1180] And I don't think you are.

[1181] I think you're supposed to seek lessons and you're supposed to seek difficult tasks and accomplishments and through those things and through doing things that are hard to do.

[1182] Even if it's just a fucking 90 minute hot yoga class, I do a 90 minute yoga class, man. Those last 20 minutes, I do not want to be there, man. And I definitely don't want to give 100 % and I can cheat I can I could kind of half acid I can but I can but if I don't and I get through it when that time is up and the lady says namaste and everybody gets up my fuck man I made it you know I lost 15 pounds my fucking yoga mat is drenched to the point where I could literally wring it out and fill a jug up with water but through that struggle I will now have a better day and I better fucking do it again tomorrow or do something else because if I just think well, tomorrow I'm just going to coast and eat Twinkies and watch TV.

[1183] Oh, hello, sadness, my old friend.

[1184] Hello, depression.

[1185] Because when you're not doing anything, you feel like shit.

[1186] And that's just a part of being a human being.

[1187] And we can pretend that we're something other than what we really are.

[1188] And we can pretend, nah, me, man, I'm just cool, just chilling, doing nothing.

[1189] Bullshit.

[1190] You're a fucking human human being.

[1191] You evolve from the fucking hundreds of thousands of years of hunters and gatherers and people that were struggling.

[1192] Those human reward systems are carved deeply into your DNA.

[1193] And if you don't respect that, if you don't respect the mechanism of happiness and fulfillment and what you really need to do in order to feel satisfied in life, camaraderie, love, family, friendship, struggle, testing yourself, learning, all those things are imperative.

[1194] They're all a giant part of being a person.

[1195] I love it.

[1196] That was amazing.

[1197] And I'm thinking in my head, am I checking those boxes as you're talking?

[1198] And am I living my life like that, you know?

[1199] And yeah, I agree with you.

[1200] Sounds like you are.

[1201] I am.

[1202] Yeah, no, I feel like that.

[1203] And we all waver, right?

[1204] Yeah, yeah.

[1205] Have days in and days out.

[1206] Absolutely.

[1207] But to be reinforced.

[1208] Yep.

[1209] And I feel like, you know, as I'm listening to talk about that, I'm literally going through like the last 10 years in my life, you know.

[1210] And when I live with David, when I went on the minds, all these things, they're all about getting an edge and doing what you, you know, And it is, I think it's like part of being human.

[1211] And that stuff makes me feel the most alive too.

[1212] You know, like, that just makes me feel alive.

[1213] Yeah.

[1214] You know, and also, like, little improvements over things.

[1215] That's why doing difficult things is good, whether it's running.

[1216] So, like, if you're running and you run, you could run two miles.

[1217] And then one day you get it up to three.

[1218] It's like, fuck, I remember when I struggled with two.

[1219] Now I can do four.

[1220] Little improvements.

[1221] You know, and you really see that.

[1222] at in yoga class in particular for me because I'm not good at it.

[1223] So when I do a yoga class and I can hold a pose until the, you know, you're holding these poses for a minute.

[1224] And if you could stand on one foot, grabbing your other foot, lifting it above your head and keep your arm out straight and your balance and your foot's on fire and your core is engaged.

[1225] But if you can get to the point where they say stop, you feel like, wow, I didn't used to be able to do that.

[1226] I used to be able to hold it for 10 seconds, then I would fall down.

[1227] And then I have to start all over again and start from scratch.

[1228] There's little improvements where you feel yourself getting a little better at something, whether it's jujitsu or anything else.

[1229] Little improvements, I think, are what life is all about.

[1230] And I think also they're a tool to feed the mind.

[1231] Because I really believe the mind needs these little lessons.

[1232] The mind needs these little tasks.

[1233] And if your brain doesn't get that, I think it atrophies and it gets depressed, and it's like, I think that's half of what a lot of people's sadness is, is this lack of stimulation and reward, lack of these peaks and valleys.

[1234] And this, again, this bullshit idea that we're constantly fed that you should be comfortable.

[1235] It's so true.

[1236] I mean, when Gagans live with me, his rule is we had to do something every day that sucked.

[1237] That was his rule.

[1238] He's the master at that.

[1239] Yeah, tell me about it.

[1240] And what did he make you do?

[1241] Every day sucked.

[1242] He didn't tell me that we're going to do that five times a day.

[1243] That, you know, no, I mean, I remember one day, well, the first thing we did was he came and he wanted to see how many pull -ups I could do so he can map out the month.

[1244] He lived with me for a month.

[1245] And I went to the pull -up bar and I got like maybe eight pull -ups, which is an exaggeration.

[1246] I probably got like four pull -ups.

[1247] A lot of people are listening.

[1248] Exxon the eight.

[1249] And then he said, all right, wait 30 seconds, go and do it again.

[1250] And I went up on the pull -up bar, and I did maybe like three or four.

[1251] He said, all right, wait 30 seconds, I want you to do it again.

[1252] And I got up on the pull -up bar and I did maybe like one kipping, you know, getting my damn chin over the bar, barely.

[1253] And I dropped down.

[1254] I was all jacked up.

[1255] And I said, all right, well, what's next?

[1256] He said, well, what's next is we're not leaving here until you do 100 more.

[1257] We're not leaving the gym until you do 100 more.

[1258] That day.

[1259] Now, like right now.

[1260] Right now.

[1261] So you had done seven.

[1262] I did like probably seven or ten.

[1263] And I was like, man, Gagans, that's impossible.

[1264] And he said, you know, I already know what your biggest problem is.

[1265] And he's like, the limitations you're putting on yourself are self -imposed.

[1266] Get the fuck back on the bar.

[1267] And, you know, Roger that, man. And I got up on the bar and over the course of an hour or two, I did them.

[1268] And that started our journey of like, you're about to go in a place where you've never been, motherfucker.

[1269] you know and you know we went I remember one day I was sitting on the couch and in Connecticut where I was living at the time and on the ticker on the on the TV the emergency broadcast system came up stay inside freezing rain icy conditions high winds stay inside it's like beeping stay inside and Gagin's like this is amazing man let's go for a run and I'm like they're telling us the exact opposite man they're they're they're broadcasting to the whole community to stay inside right so we go for a 10 mile run in the blizzard and we come home and i lived on a lake and kids are playing hockey on the lake so we go down and he takes his hand and he moves all the snow off the ice it gets a boulder and he breaks the ice a little hole in the ice with the boulder and then he takes his hand he makes the hole a little bit bigger and then he jumps in and then he points at me and he takes his finger and he singles for me to jump in i'm not going in the fucking freezing cold water because my mother told me as a kid in long island don't go anywhere near the frozen war if you fall in you have like a minute you know right he's bathing in it so of course i go in and uh he looks at me as like man you got about a about four two two to four minutes you're going to get hypothermia we just went on a run we got to get you out of the lake and i go to get out he goes you can't get out he goes if your skin touches the ice it's going to stick to the ice like the kid in christmas story his tongue that sticks to the pole you know So he puts my shoes back on my hands and picks my ass up and puts my sock, I put my socks on or whatever.

[1270] And I bear crawl out of the ice and I run up and I see my wife looking out the window as I'm running into the house.

[1271] And we come in and she says to Goggins, you know, like, what's the medical benefit of jumping in a frozen lake?

[1272] And he said to her, there's no medical benefit.

[1273] She's like, this is what your husband signed up for.

[1274] You know, he's like, I want to see how far he's willing to go to get to his goals.

[1275] And I was like, fuck, this is going to be some 30 days.

[1276] man Jesus Wow What was the toughest thing You made you do It was just The consistency of it You know It was just like It was just like He went everywhere I went He shadowed me For 30 days He went to every business meeting We flew together He lived with my wife and I Did you think Like what the fuck did I sign up for This is back in 2010 So this is You know Yes I did did.

[1277] I was.

[1278] And the book came out two years ago?

[1279] No, yeah, I waited five years.

[1280] I didn't, I didn't, you know, and expected to ever be a book.

[1281] It was just like, you know, at all.

[1282] There was no book being discussed.

[1283] I kept a little blog about it, you know.

[1284] So why'd you do it?

[1285] Um, I just felt like there was so much in it.

[1286] There's so many lessons.

[1287] And it was funny.

[1288] Fish out of water.

[1289] Like, he's coming into our house.

[1290] My wife owned Spanks.

[1291] I mean, like the total dynamic of this shit was crazy.

[1292] and I just felt there were a lot of lessons that could be learned through it.

[1293] And, you know, I took a shot at it.

[1294] Jesus Christ.

[1295] Yeah, he's a maniac.

[1296] When he did the podcast, I got here, he showed up super early.

[1297] And when I got here, he was already with his shirt off doing chin -ups.

[1298] I was like, I walked into the back where the gym is, and he's in there, I'm like, look at this motherfucker.

[1299] Amazing.

[1300] Yeah, he's a savage.

[1301] Yeah, yeah.

[1302] He's legit.

[1303] But these are all the lessons, you know, as you're talking about, you know, and you don't know where the nuggets come from, you put yourself in a position for the nuggets to appear.

[1304] And they don't have to be radical positions, like I'm going to go get Gagens or I'm going to go live with a month.

[1305] They don't be radical, but you put yourself out there like you were saying and you live a life where those lessons find you.

[1306] Yeah.

[1307] And seek them.

[1308] You seek them.

[1309] Yeah.

[1310] Well, Gagin's story is so fascinating because he wasn't that guy.

[1311] He was fat and out of shape and unmotivated and lazy.

[1312] And, you know, talked openly about the first time he ran, like he quit.

[1313] He was supposed to, you know, he ran about three quarters of a mile, I think he said, and quit.

[1314] And he was exhausted and just drinking milkshakes and all fucked up.

[1315] And somehow or another decided he's not going to be that guy anymore and went 180 degrees.

[1316] Yeah.

[1317] And became this intensely motivated Iron Man. Yeah.

[1318] Yeah, I was at the race.

[1319] I saw him at the race where he broke all the bones in his feet, you know.

[1320] I saw him.

[1321] I was at the, I participated in that race.

[1322] It's the first time I saw him.

[1323] It's how I met him.

[1324] And, uh, 2007.

[1325] And, uh, you know, he broke all the bones in his feet.

[1326] He broke, yeah, he, he, he was running a hundred.

[1327] I was running this race.

[1328] It was a 24 -hour race as a relay team.

[1329] I was up with four friends.

[1330] And the format of the race is, you know, you run a mile, I run a mile, my other, whatever team runs the most amount of miles.

[1331] Right.

[1332] Wins the race.

[1333] He had no teammates.

[1334] That sounds like him.

[1335] I'm like, where's the rest of the team?

[1336] That sounds like him.

[1337] And he weighed a lot at the time And I watched him Wait a lot Was he bodybuilding at the time?

[1338] He was just big He probably weighed 260, 70 pounds Maybe more When he was deadlifting Yeah maybe even more So was this the one where he ran 24 hours all around the road Just to show that he could run 100 miles And he wound up shitting himself Yeah he told me about that I saw it I didn't know he broke all the bones In his feet He broke some bones, yeah He didn't even tell me about that And then he ran a marathon a month later Yeah He's a fucking an animal.

[1339] Yeah.

[1340] Yeah.

[1341] I mean, he really is.

[1342] Yeah.

[1343] He was telling me also that he did that.

[1344] Explain that to your wife when you say he's coming to live with you.

[1345] You don't know my wife.

[1346] That's what happened.

[1347] She's kick us both out.

[1348] I just said it really.

[1349] I told Sarah because I flew out, I flew out to meet Goggins after the race.

[1350] You know, I Cole called him and my wife asked me how the meeting went.

[1351] And in the meeting, you know, I realized, like, I kind of wanted to get the secret sauce.

[1352] Like, what the fuck?

[1353] Try, you know, and, um, was that the idea?

[1354] Like, yeah, I was like, like, by, by being around some, such an intensely motivated guy that you would get the rub?

[1355] Get the rub.

[1356] And I, I, I, I'd fallen into a routine.

[1357] I couldn't get out of.

[1358] And I just, you know, like, I was like, just get me out of my routine, man, you know.

[1359] Right.

[1360] And I want to learn from you and that kind of thing.

[1361] And, um, my wife asked me how the lunch meeting went and I told her that, you know, he's coming live with us.

[1362] She was like, what?

[1363] I was like, lunch meeting with him?

[1364] And did you, were you going to propose?

[1365] posed this before the meeting?

[1366] I went to what happened was I went to the meeting and with no real agenda other than like I want to meet this guy man you know it's 2007 I want to meet him 2008 something around around there was 10 years ago and I was just so like drawn to him you know and I actually went home and then and then asked him to come, you know, live with me. And he said, yes.

[1367] And then I told my wife after.

[1368] Like, this guy's coming in two days.

[1369] Now, why did he say yes?

[1370] I mean, isn't he busy?

[1371] Did you offer him money?

[1372] Like, how did this?

[1373] No, he was, he was active.

[1374] He was still in the military at the time.

[1375] And, yeah, I think, I don't know exactly what triggered.

[1376] I remember asking him to come.

[1377] And I remember him saying to me, if you're crazy enough to ask a guy like me to come live with you motherfucker I'm crazy enough to come three days later he shows up with one bag knowing him that is exactly what it would sound like if he said it with those crazy eyes Jesus Christ sweetie this is David wow did you give him an objective do you say did you say why you wanted him to come or what you were trying to get out of it at that time in my life I had a, I was, I had a, um, just left, I have my timeline, right.

[1378] I think I just left the, my private, this private jet car company.

[1379] I had marquee jet.

[1380] I was just starting out in this Zico, this coconut water business.

[1381] And I was in a routine, you know, I was in a rut.

[1382] Not a, I was just doing the same stuff, man. I was so comfortable.

[1383] And I was just like, just come shake it up, man. You know, you can travel with me. I got some meetings coming up.

[1384] We'll live together.

[1385] There was no book.

[1386] There was no anything.

[1387] Right.

[1388] The book happened years later.

[1389] and he said he would do it.

[1390] That's crazy that he just agreed.

[1391] I loved it, by the way.

[1392] Did you?

[1393] It was one of the best months of my life.

[1394] I loved being around him.

[1395] He's an amazing guy.

[1396] I loved, you know, we were watching games.

[1397] We were working out.

[1398] I was going out midnight, three in the morning.

[1399] We were running in the blizzards.

[1400] Three in the morning.

[1401] One day, he was like, we're going to run four miles every four hours for 48 hours.

[1402] Joe, I was like, I got to work.

[1403] He's like, no, you don't.

[1404] No, you don't.

[1405] You can work in 48 hours.

[1406] So I would wake up at midnight.

[1407] We started at midnight.

[1408] We would run, let's say it took us 40 minutes.

[1409] And then we would come back.

[1410] We'd have, you know, what, three hours and 20 minutes of rest.

[1411] And then at 4 a .m., we go again, four miles.

[1412] Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, 48 hours.

[1413] Jesus Christ.

[1414] one time I have fucking a million stories I mean we went in the sauna and he's like all right we're going to stay in the sauna for I'm a sauna guy I thought I was a sauna guy by the way I thought I was and actually this was the steam and he's like we're going to stay in here for 30 minutes eight ounces of water okay we jack it up it's fucking cooking in there it's I walk in I'm like holy fuck it's so hot in here he sits down he's whistling dixie you're like sitting in the corner doing his shit I'm like you know eight minutes in and my water's gone I've already drank my eight ounces of water and about 19 minutes in I'm like Gagins I got to get out he's like you can't get out I'm like no I'm gonna pass out I got to get out he's like you can't get out I'm like no no and I just I couldn't even wait for him to say no again because I'm about to pass out I can feel myself about to pass out I open up the door All the smoke from the steam room goes flying out of the door I sit right in the chair He comes storming out And he looks at me He's like oh fuck you don't look good I go no I'm gonna pass out He goes We got to abort the mission Like we're not doing the rest of the 30 minutes Like I got a pass That was the only pass I got Because you almost died in the sauna Or the steam room I was fucked up Steam room's different because it's moisture And you're taking it in I was taking in like the eucalyptus You're getting cooked cooked yeah I mean you're really getting cooked it's not like with sauna you're getting like kind of dry roasted but in the the moisture is different like you can't get as hot in a steam room as you can in a sauna correct yeah yeah so this was a series of these just a you know getting poached throughout the uh yeah god no he would just make these up like come up with these ideas it was just constant man like I mean we'd go to work we'd be sitting at work And I'd have like a 30 minute break and he'd be like, burpee test.

[1415] Like what?

[1416] I'm at work.

[1417] He'd be like, I don't want to see how many burpees you can do in 10 minutes.

[1418] I'd be like burpee test.

[1419] And I was like, in the middle of work, I would like get down, take off my, you know, whatever I was wearing.

[1420] I'd get like my boxers or whatever, like just to get.

[1421] And I would do as many burpees as I could in 10 minutes and be soaking wet and I'd walk into my next meeting.

[1422] And everybody knew he would, you know, like he was.

[1423] that was part of the thing.

[1424] So you explained to all these people that you're?

[1425] Wow.

[1426] Closed every deal.

[1427] I closed every deal, man. Because you're so amped up.

[1428] Plus, he was there.

[1429] Who's going to say, no?

[1430] People were fascinated.

[1431] I walk in, and they'd be like, at the end of the meeting, I'm like, do you want to talk?

[1432] It's like, whatever the fuck you guys are in, we're in.

[1433] We're in.

[1434] Wow.

[1435] That sounds so much better than living with a monk.

[1436] It was.

[1437] That sounds so much better.

[1438] I miss them.

[1439] You keep in touch?

[1440] Yeah.

[1441] I haven't spoken to in a while, but, yeah, I mean, I've known since 2007 now.

[1442] It's been 10 years.

[1443] Wow.

[1444] Yeah, I would think that that would be hard, but exciting.

[1445] Whereas the monk thing seems like the drone of it all would just get to you.

[1446] Yeah.

[1447] And I couldn't go back to my room and my surroundings in the monk thing.

[1448] I was, like, in their world.

[1449] Forever.

[1450] Forever.

[1451] And they live in the same way that you did?

[1452] They have a little cell as well.

[1453] Yeah.

[1454] I actually didn't see their rooms, but, yeah, from what I understand, even smaller than when I was in.

[1455] Smaller?

[1456] Smaller than this table?

[1457] My room was about the size of this table.

[1458] So theirs was smaller?

[1459] From what I understand, yeah.

[1460] How is it even possible?

[1461] Bed.

[1462] There's no, like, just a little bed.

[1463] Just going to a space with a bed.

[1464] Blackout, wake up, start all over again.

[1465] Dron.

[1466] Dron.

[1467] Yeah.

[1468] No, I think the four miles every 40 minutes or whatever the fuck it is or four miles every four hours.

[1469] That sounds way better.

[1470] Yeah.

[1471] That sounds crazy.

[1472] I did at the time, but yeah.

[1473] How'd you end it?

[1474] How did he end the 30 days?

[1475] He left me a note on a post -it.

[1476] Thanks.

[1477] That's it?

[1478] That's it.

[1479] Jesus.

[1480] That's intense.

[1481] Thanks.

[1482] Thanks Wow Jesus Christ My goodbyes are like long hugs Yeah right Changing exchanging shit Planning Thanks That would be an incredible service Like if he wanted to do that Just go to like billionaires And just say you have to Do what I tell you to do for a month I bet a lot of people would do that I'm sure Just charge some fucking stupid amount of money and have him live with you for a month you know that's hard and anybody personality wise over time having roommates it's hard you know what i mean yeah so he's with you 24 -7 yeah i mean it's hard do you ever wake you up every day every day he woke you up yep come in and tap me on the shoulder time to get up let's do with my wife right next to me jesus christ it wasn't tap time to do this it was get up motherfucker that was what you'd say well at least he was courteous we whispered it so it didn't wake your wife up yeah was your wife like what in the fuck are you doing she loved them she loved them she loved them but was she to you like what in the fuck are you doing she said you're out of your fucking mind wow she she said you're crazy but 30 days later you must have been in sick shape ridiculous shape no ridiculous ridiculous.

[1483] When he left, I didn't do anything for six weeks.

[1484] Just to catch out.

[1485] I didn't do anything for six weeks because I couldn't keep the intensity up.

[1486] I just, I couldn't do it.

[1487] I've run 100 miles.

[1488] I've pat done the, you know, endurance paddle races.

[1489] I've done all this shit.

[1490] I couldn't do it.

[1491] Wow.

[1492] I was just like, why?

[1493] You know?

[1494] It was wild.

[1495] Damn.

[1496] I look back on that stuff, man. It's just like, I just feel so lucky to have had the opportunity.

[1497] you know what I mean?

[1498] Like I said, you're around that.

[1499] You're around the best dog trainers.

[1500] You're around, you know, and I get to live with it because my wife's an amazing entrepreneur.

[1501] I get to live with greatness, you know, and just you go around these things and it's just these people.

[1502] It's just the stuff that you can learn if you allow yourself, you know, to listen.

[1503] Yeah.

[1504] I'm not a great listener.

[1505] I'm learning to be a good listener.

[1506] Because even like you were giving that little monologue and you were going through it, I was like, yes.

[1507] Man, that shit is resonating with me on a high level.

[1508] You put yourself in the position, and then you have to be able to extract it and apply it.

[1509] Yeah.

[1510] Yeah.

[1511] And exactly what I was saying is what you got out of Goggins.

[1512] Like, you were around greatness.

[1513] You're around a man who just does not accept mediocrity and does not accept a shitty effort.

[1514] He wants everything your body can do.

[1515] And through doing that, you just get something more out of your mind.

[1516] you get something more out of your life.

[1517] Those hard days, the relaxation is earned.

[1518] You appreciate it.

[1519] Yes.

[1520] Relaxation without any effort, it's just bullshit.

[1521] You feel proud of yourself too.

[1522] You know, like that's, I think, like, you know, it's so important to do things that make you feel proud of yourself.

[1523] Right.

[1524] You know, and that's, when I left the monastery, you asked me, like, you know, how did you feel when you got in the car?

[1525] And the exact feeling was proud.

[1526] that you did it.

[1527] That I did it.

[1528] Wow.

[1529] I was like proud of myself.

[1530] Like, I stuck with it.

[1531] I did it.

[1532] And like...

[1533] Did you have a little bit of fuck that place, too?

[1534] Yes.

[1535] I'm like, can I Uber Eats when I get home?

[1536] I'd be like, stop at the first five guys burger you see.

[1537] Exactly.

[1538] Exactly.

[1539] Oh, man. Well, listen, dude, I really appreciate you coming in here, man. I really enjoyed talking to you.

[1540] Likewise, man. Fucking awesome stories.

[1541] And so the two books are available right now.

[1542] Anybody can buy them.

[1543] Is there an audiobook of both?

[1544] Yes.

[1545] Audio books available and audible and Apple books and all that jazz.

[1546] Living with the seal and living with the monks.

[1547] Thanks a lot, brother.

[1548] I really appreciate you, man. Thank you so much.

[1549] Really enjoyed it.

[1550] Yeah, man. You have a mutual friend.