#876 - Chris Bell

[0] It's authentic.

[1] That's sweet.

[2] I'm just now getting over the hurricane of Shannon Briggs.

[3] It came through this with a storm of Let's Go Champ.

[4] He's a maniac.

[5] Yeah, he is a maniac.

[6] So I'm glad we can get you in here today because explain to everybody.

[7] First of all, if people don't know, Chris produced and what did you, direct it and produce it?

[8] And bigger, stronger, faster, and prescription thugs.

[9] And prescription thugs, which is particularly important because a lot of it was about the prescription.

[10] industry and the the how many people get hooked and you've had experience with it i we've all known people and lost people that have had problems with prescription pills but you wanted to come in and talk about cratum sure yeah you know a while back when i was actually hooked on pills i was looking for a way to get off them i would search the internet every day on a way to get clean and sober and i came across this thing called cratum and they said oh they sell it at these uh head shops and different things and you know back then i wasn't really familiar with the head shop scene or anything like that.

[11] So I actually, I never found it.

[12] I never went out and sought it out.

[13] And then after going through rehab, I had heard about it a couple more times from some people.

[14] I've heard about people taking it to get off of opiates.

[15] It's a plant.

[16] It's a 100 % natural plant.

[17] It comes from, you know, Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia.

[18] That's where they grow it.

[19] It's been used for like 2 ,000 years.

[20] Basically, it works sort of like an opioid, but it's not a drug.

[21] It's just a plant, you know?

[22] And it has these properties that have helped people bridge the gap when they get off of opiates so they don't have withdrawals.

[23] What it also does is help relieve pain.

[24] And it also helps with anxiety.

[25] It helps with, you know, elevates your mood.

[26] And it does all these great things.

[27] But the government now wants to make it a schedule one drug.

[28] So you're saying it's not a drug, though?

[29] Well, you know, that's, I guess it's semantics.

[30] It's like, how do you classify something?

[31] It's been around for 2 ,000 years.

[32] Right.

[33] No one's ever done any studies on it being a drug.

[34] and no one's ever done any studies on it.

[35] Well, there's been actually a lot of studies on it being a supplement, but they aren't like these FDA -approved, you know, double -blind placebo studies that they're requiring for it to be on the market as a normal supplement.

[36] But it has psychoactive properties.

[37] Well, it'll elevate your mood.

[38] So we're just talking about alpha brain or some, you know, neutropics.

[39] It'll work like that.

[40] And it'll elevate your mood.

[41] I mean, I don't know where the real distinction is between high and elevation of mood or where you know what what the difference is really there but it doesn't make you feel like it's not like i smoked pot it's more like i had a good cup of coffee you know i'm fired up maybe back in the day when i used to take like pre -workout supplements caffeine and a fetterine kind of feels like that i just feel like fired up and ready to go and i don't feel pain that's interesting the cratum gets you fired up i would have never i would have thought it would have mellowed you out i have zero experience or that you have some here now and um you could drive in this stuff is it Well, they tell you not to operate heavy machinery and things like that, but I've never had a problem with it.

[42] I actually take it to drive.

[43] So, you know, tomorrow I'm leaving for Thanksgiving.

[44] I got to drive six hours.

[45] So that you're asking to take them before I get in the car to go because it actually helps me focus.

[46] It relieves the pain.

[47] Wow.

[48] That sounds crazy.

[49] So it mimics the effects of opioids, right?

[50] Opiates.

[51] But it also elevates you?

[52] Well, sure.

[53] So, like, if you, I don't know if you ever taken oxycotton or Vicodin or any of those things like that.

[54] No. A lot of times when people take that, they feel like, you know, they're indestructible.

[55] I took Vicodin.

[56] I think it was Vicodin once when I had my first knee surgery in 93.

[57] I fucking hated it.

[58] I took it literally one time.

[59] And I guess for me, you know, I guess it's different for everybody.

[60] I think it was Vicodin.

[61] It might have been Perkissettes.

[62] But whatever the doctor gave me for pain, I took the pills.

[63] And I was like, oh, my God, I feel so fucking stupid.

[64] I'd like, I'd rather be in pain than feel this dumb.

[65] Sure.

[66] I think a lot of times, like, what happened with me is I came out of anesthesia from a surgery and I was all doped up on the drugs and I didn't even know it.

[67] So it just kind of like just kept going.

[68] You know what I mean?

[69] Like I never stopped getting high from the time I was in the hospital for like six years, you know?

[70] Right.

[71] So for me, it was like, you know, opiates were a real big problem.

[72] They were ruining my life.

[73] They were destroying me. Now that I got sober two and a half years ago and I started taking I feel great.

[74] Like everything in my entire career is going, you know, skyrocketing.

[75] Things are going great.

[76] My relationship, my girlfriend's great.

[77] Everything's been good.

[78] So I can't really see the bad in it.

[79] So when they decided to make this a schedule one drug, we decided to make a documentary about it and show the world what it really is.

[80] That seems really bizarre that you would have a problem with drugs and then this would help you.

[81] Like I would think that if you have a problem with drugs, you would want to stay away from anything that's sketchy.

[82] Sure.

[83] But a big part of addiction, you got to remember, is that we relapse.

[84] Right.

[85] If you can have something, it actually helps with alcohol withdrawals and alcohol cravings.

[86] So if we have something that will help me to not crave those things or even think about them.

[87] Right.

[88] And also not feel pain.

[89] Like, why should I have to be in pain?

[90] Like there's no, you know.

[91] Now are you in pain right now?

[92] Not right now because I took caretum before I came here.

[93] But I would normally be in a lot of arthritic pain.

[94] Oh, okay.

[95] And you have arthritis just naturally, right?

[96] Double hip.

[97] that double hip replacement surgery.

[98] I need both of my knees done, my shoulders shot, you know, kind of everything.

[99] I'm kind of pretty beat up.

[100] And so for me, it just works.

[101] You know, my brother, who's also a power lifter, he takes it as well before he trains, and he really loves it too.

[102] Takes it before he lifts weights.

[103] Yeah.

[104] Wow.

[105] And he's trying to bench 600 pounds, so he's not like, it's not like he's using a little bit of weight.

[106] No, your brother's a gorilla.

[107] Yeah, he's pushing it.

[108] But that's, that's so strange to me. And this is all, like, I'm glad we didn't talk before this podcast, because I had a thought in my head of what this stuff is and you're changing it right now what did you think it was well I felt like it was probably just a good way that people could relieve pain naturally but I felt like if someone was going to describe it to me I thought they were going to tell me about an opiate type of effect that it just mellows you out but it doesn't it doesn't hurt you there are different strains of it there's a strain called Bali which is like supposed to be good for anxiety and kind of calm you down.

[109] There's a strand called Green Mele, which is like sort of get, that's a one that is a good pre -workout.

[110] But they're all kind of the same thing.

[111] You know, they all have the same alkaloids.

[112] Kratum has 27 alkaloids.

[113] So when you look at it, it actually has alkaloids that work like opiates.

[114] They attach to opiate receptors, but not in the same way.

[115] If you look at oxy -cotton, when it attaches to an opiate receptor, I mean, it's like, you know, it's stuck in there.

[116] It's like screwed in, basically.

[117] If you think about like a screw, that opiate receptor, it's screw it in there so tight that you could never just pull it out.

[118] You'd have to, you know, unscrew it.

[119] So with the cratum, though, it kind of like balance, it kind of like drifts around the top of that opiate receptor.

[120] It doesn't, it doesn't attach nearly as hard.

[121] They say that opiates attach a thousand times greater to the opiate receptor than anything found in nature and cratoms found in nature.

[122] Oh, wow.

[123] But what about heroin?

[124] Like the actual poppy seed is found in nature, right?

[125] Yeah, and they have to do stuff to it to make it, right?

[126] You know, heroin.

[127] They have to do stuff with coca leaves to make cocaine.

[128] They have to, you know, it's like marijuana and cratum are probably the two most similar things.

[129] And when I went to interview Senator Mark Pocan last week about he was the one that wrote a letter to the government.

[130] He wants to keep cratum legal.

[131] He thinks that, you know, it should be allowed for everyone.

[132] And I said to him, what do you think about marijuana?

[133] And he was like, I just think it should all be legal.

[134] And it was the first time I was ever in the presence of somebody that works for the government saying that they think that weed and Craterham and all this stuff should be legal.

[135] And it's because he had a good head on his shoulders about the problems that people face every day.

[136] You know, it's not black and white.

[137] Like, I live in this gray area.

[138] I'm in a lot of pain, but I don't want to take opiates.

[139] Right.

[140] You know, I shouldn't have to take opiates.

[141] So where's the pressure coming from to turn this stuff into a Schedule 1 drug?

[142] If there's no, if there's no negative response by the body, you're not having people die of overdoses.

[143] Is there an LD -50 rate on this stuff?

[144] Well, if you look at, you know, I mean, you're saying where is the...

[145] Well, LD50 explained, we should probably explain to people, lethal dose at 50 % meaning if you take 50 rats and you give them a pound of this shit, 50 of them are, you know, 25 them will die at a certain level.

[146] Sure, we've heard about, you know, there's been no deaths from marijuana, right?

[147] Right, ever.

[148] Cratum is the same thing.

[149] No, no deaths.

[150] There have been zero deaths and there have actually been 15 deaths that have been brought to the FDA and the DEA's attention.

[151] Those 15 deaths, I actually went and interviewed one of the mothers.

[152] The kid was on three psych meds.

[153] He was on or withdrawing from three different psych meds.

[154] I have a black box warning that says, warning.

[155] If you're a teenager, you might commit suicide, basically.

[156] And this kid committed suicide.

[157] He didn't die from a Kratum overdose.

[158] He died from committing suicide.

[159] And his mother wants to blame Kratom.

[160] She doesn't think that the psych meds had anything to do with it.

[161] And I don't want to say that Kratom had nothing to do with it.

[162] We don't really know.

[163] And what I really call for with Kratom is just more research.

[164] Like I want people to put in the money to do the research to make sure that this is safe.

[165] And let's see if we can solve this opiate epidemic.

[166] Let's see if we can crack down, you know, basically lower the amount of opiate prescriptions we have in this country.

[167] I just read an article the other day.

[168] One in seven people in America are going to be affected with addiction problems.

[169] Wow.

[170] That's crazy.

[171] One in seven.

[172] Yeah.

[173] That means somebody in your family.

[174] That's insane.

[175] Somebody in your family.

[176] will be affected by it.

[177] That's more than 10 %.

[178] Yeah.

[179] That's weird.

[180] That's weird, right?

[181] Sure.

[182] And not everybody, it's not that everybody gets addicted.

[183] They're affected by addiction.

[184] My girlfriend was really affected by addiction because when she met me, I was, you know, taking drugs and drinking every day.

[185] And that's a, that's a big effect on, especially on women.

[186] It's tough.

[187] You know, it's a tough thing to handle.

[188] Now, I can understand this woman whose son died being, could understand her remorse and looking to point the point.

[189] blame at someone and a lot of times people are reluctant to point the blame towards something that a doctor prescribed and they'll automatically say well it probably wasn't that it was probably this other thing that's not regulated you know what she said to me she said uh chris i'm going to pray for you because i know you're taking cratum and i'm going to pray for you that you're okay and i was like you know lady you don't need to pray for me like i've been taking it for a year you know and i think that people just get it wrong and i feel bad for her i feel bad for her in the fact that um that She can't just realize that, you know, she can't look at the research and see, you know, because when I went and interviewed her, she said, well, I'm not even sure if Kratum killed them.

[190] And this is after a gigantic, you know, they mount this gigantic media coverage of this story, right?

[191] Like, this was all over.

[192] And now, and now like two years later after the damage has been done, she's kind of coming back and say, well, I don't know if it was Kratum.

[193] You know, but she already did the damage.

[194] Like these are, these deaths are the reason why the DEA wants to ban it.

[195] Well, the DEA, though, is going on what kind of evidence?

[196] I mean, when they do a scientific analysis of Kratum and they break it down, they don't find anything toxic in it, do they?

[197] No. Well, I talked to Melvin Patterson.

[198] He's the spokesman for the DEA.

[199] And when I talked to Melvin Patterson, what he told me is that they lean on the FDA a lot for these kind of decisions, right?

[200] So they go to the FDA and they ask the FDA, can you give us an eight -point, it's like some sort of thing that they have in place.

[201] It's like an eight -point inspection to make sure that this drug is not dangerous.

[202] you know, and if it is dangerous, it's deemed dangerous, they'll take it off the market based on the FDA's, you know, research.

[203] So the DEA had asked the FDA for that eight -point inspection.

[204] The FDA never went ahead and did it.

[205] So the DEA got upset and said, well, we're going to ban it anyway because we're waiting on you guys.

[206] And then there was a big uproar.

[207] There was 100 ,000 people signed a petition, you know, partly due to you tweeting about it and things like that.

[208] There was a guy, Andrew Turner.

[209] He tweeted you.

[210] He was an Iraq war vet.

[211] And you should see his video.

[212] He can't even speak without Kratom.

[213] He cannot talk normal without Kratom.

[214] He speaks with all these ticks and twitches in his face due to, they think, maybe PTSD and some other problems that had affected him.

[215] And now he takes Kratom and those twitches all go away.

[216] He did a video on YouTube that was kind of amazing.

[217] He stopped taking it for six days, and you can see all these twitches are evident.

[218] And then he goes back on the Kratom and they all disappear.

[219] Whoa.

[220] Wow.

[221] Wow.

[222] So who's pressuring the DEA to turn this stuff into a Schedule 1 drug?

[223] And why Schedule 1?

[224] There's a couple patents that are on the alkaloids that are in the plant.

[225] So I think that big pharma would be, you know, the first place to look.

[226] They have a couple patents.

[227] They want to basically take this.

[228] You know, I think it's actually, I don't look at it as being that bad, but why make the organic cratom illegal in order to turn this into a more powerful drug?

[229] they think that they can extract some of these alkaloids, right?

[230] There's two alkaloids, metagenine, and the other one is like seven hydroxy metagenine.

[231] It's like too technical for anybody to really care about.

[232] But there's two alkaloids that they really care about that help with opiate withdrawals and help with pain.

[233] And those are the two.

[234] And they actually just want to ban the two alkaloids, but you can't do that because it's in the plant.

[235] So you have to ban the whole plant.

[236] And to me, you know, you said it the best.

[237] You said making something else illegal is like archaic.

[238] It doesn't make any sense.

[239] What are you going to do to the people, you know, five states just legalized marijuana.

[240] Now you're going to throw people in jail for cratom.

[241] It doesn't make sense.

[242] Well, I'm worried about this new administration when it comes to, for various reasons.

[243] Yeah.

[244] But I'm worried about them when it comes to being compromised by Big Pharma.

[245] I really am.

[246] You know, it's such a business -oriented administration.

[247] Sure.

[248] And he's bringing in all these old dudes.

[249] They're right out of that TV show, The Strain.

[250] Like, they're the vampire dudes that are hanging out with the Nazis.

[251] Like, I'm looking at all these.

[252] people like Mike Pence, all these old dudes he's bringing in with these archaic ideas.

[253] I'm like, they're all against gay marriage.

[254] Cessions.

[255] Yeah.

[256] I mean, it's ridiculous.

[257] You know, I was hoping that maybe Trump would bring in some people that would be opposite of his thinking.

[258] And, you know, it just hasn't happened.

[259] Well, he was a Democrat for a long time.

[260] I mean, Donald Trump was always a Democrat.

[261] I mean, him running as a Republican is kind of odd if you look at his history, but he's going all in with a lot of these people.

[262] And some of them are deeply opposed to marijuana legalization federally and, you know, that stuff is very counterintuitive and counter -progressive.

[263] And the marijuana legalization, we've been reading a lot about that and it's going to be what a lot of people think might be a mess because making it recreational opens it up to Marlborough and all these other companies that make tobacco products to now start selling cannabis and turning it into, you know, what we already have, bullshit.

[264] Well, I'm not opposed to them making it commercial because I feel.

[265] like the more people do it, the better we're all going to be.

[266] Sure.

[267] I really believe that.

[268] I mean, people say, oh, you're a pot -head thing like that, bro.

[269] But I really think it's a, I think, I mean, you can call it a drug, but whatever it is, it is a component of life that makes people calmer, makes people happier, it makes people more sensitive.

[270] I just think it's better for people.

[271] I was 100 % against it ever since I was in college.

[272] Like, I just thought, like, marijuana, wow, that's the worst thing, you know.

[273] And steroids.

[274] I thought marijuana and steroids were the devil.

[275] and come to find out it's all the drugs that the doctors actually prescribe us that are the devil that we need to look out for you know they're not necessarily i shouldn't say the devil they help a lot of people but we have to be very careful about what we're putting in our bodies that our doctors give us we can't just say well the doctor said it's fine and just you know take it and that's how i got addicted to opiates and a lot of people want to say i'll get it on uh instagram all the time well bro it's your fault man it's all your fault and they know nothing about addiction it's not my fault it's not anybody's fault these things happen because it's a progressive you know You know, these drugs were designed to make you addicted.

[276] So to say it's my fault, it's kind of ridiculous, because the drug was actually designed so people get hooked on it.

[277] Yeah, you just didn't outrun it.

[278] That's all it is.

[279] I didn't outrun it, yeah, you're right.

[280] I mean, that's really what it is.

[281] It's like some people outrun it and you get away from it and you should have been stronger, bro.

[282] Yeah.

[283] You know, like, all right.

[284] How many people have to get fucking addicted before you recognize it's a problem?

[285] I mean, that's a giant problem in this country.

[286] We lose a person to addiction every 19 minutes in this country.

[287] Accidental overdoses.

[288] I think I've said that stat several times on your show.

[289] And it's just, you can't say it enough.

[290] You know, we have this giant opiate epidemic, and we have something here.

[291] You know, in our film, we're just, we're starting to make a documentary about this.

[292] And in the film, you know, we show a guy who has a, not a huge habit, but six, Viking in a Day habit.

[293] And he cuts that down to zero using Kratum.

[294] And we watch that, you know, that process because I feel like that's important to show that, like, hey, you can actually do this.

[295] Now, if we have people that are really, really addicted to heroin and really, really addicted to these other drugs, they might need something like Suboxone and then crate them.

[296] You know, like we don't really, we don't really know.

[297] You know, my friend Kelly Dunn, who owns the company Urban Ice that we were just talking to, he actually bought a farm up in Washington, and it's his intent.

[298] If people don't have money to go to rehab or do whatever, they can come up and visit him, you know, and get cratum.

[299] He's actually, you know, a licensed therapist and all that stuff like that.

[300] So like, I feel like it's sort of this, this grassroots movement to try to get people to even try cretum that's what i've been trying to do is get people like hey just just try it like you said with marijuana the more people that try it the better off will be and i really feel that with cratum too making me want to try it now what is the name is it a cratum plant like what does a plant look like yeah it's a plant it's a plant it kind of looks like i don't know like a poison ivy plant i'm sure you can maybe pull one up you know but it basically just looks like just like any other plant shiny green leaves you know i I don't think I even heard about it until maybe a couple of years ago, and I didn't know how to pronounce it until a month ago.

[301] Well, people say cratum, cratom, tomato, tomato, whatever.

[302] I didn't know what it was.

[303] I mean, I had rarely heard about it.

[304] I think someone gave me some after a show one day.

[305] I'm going, I'm taking this shit.

[306] You know what?

[307] That's what it looks like?

[308] There it goes.

[309] Yeah.

[310] It kind of happens a lot.

[311] Like somebody will say, hey, here, try this.

[312] And I never trust that either.

[313] Yeah.

[314] But for me, what happened to me is very interesting.

[315] I have a lot of friends in this, you know, in this world of, you know, fitness and whatever.

[316] And so I just end up talking to a lot of people.

[317] people that try a lot of different things.

[318] So after I got done with the opiates, I was on Dr. Drew's show and he said, well, you should try Advil and Tylenol in combination.

[319] That's going to be better than an opiate for your pain, for your chronic pain.

[320] So I said, okay, I start trying that.

[321] Then I get a phone call from my friend who lives in England who tells me he just had a kidney transplant because of all the insides he was taken.

[322] So now he doesn't know.

[323] The non -steroidal anti -inflammatories, which are Advil.

[324] Sure.

[325] Yeah, Advil and Tylenol and all and stuff that.

[326] So he had a kidney transplant.

[327] I just thought like, you know, I didn't.

[328] think that that was going to necessarily happen to me, but I was taking like 10 Advil a day, you know?

[329] That could happen then, right?

[330] I mean, how many were your friend taken?

[331] He said about 20.

[332] And he was a New Bane addict before that, so he doesn't know if it's a new bane, blah, blah, blah, right?

[333] So you get in all these problems.

[334] But I just thought, like, well, look, taking 10 Advil and Tylen all a day, because I was taking them in combination, that just can't be good for you.

[335] Can't be.

[336] So my friend Kelly hit me up.

[337] He's like, hey, man, you should try this plant and might help you.

[338] And what was your first experience like with it?

[339] My first experience was, so my friend Kelly, he was very serious about this, and he wants to help a lot of people.

[340] He said, I'll fly to Sacramento.

[341] I was living up by my brother at the time.

[342] So he flew out to Sacramento to see me. He gave me some cratum.

[343] He went to his hotel.

[344] I went to my house.

[345] I had just been filming with my brother for like five hours straight, and my arthritis was, like, at its worst point, like the worst it could possibly be.

[346] Is that from standing?

[347] It's just standing up.

[348] Yeah, yeah, just get beat up, you know.

[349] And also, like, standing on concrete floors and gyms and stuff like that kills you.

[350] So I was just, like, beat up.

[351] I took the Kratum, and then he came over later that day to talk to me. I said, dude, you're not going to believe it, but I'm in.

[352] You know, like, I don't feel any pain right now.

[353] No pain.

[354] And it took a good two or three months for me to really get into it.

[355] Because, like, I might tell you now and you might go home and try this, right?

[356] Right.

[357] And you might say, yeah, Chris, whatever the fuck.

[358] Like, that doesn't work.

[359] But then for some reason, you'll go back to it.

[360] And then you go back to it and go back to it.

[361] And then all of a sudden, like, it's a miracle to you.

[362] I don't know.

[363] That's how it was for me. I'm not saying that's how it's going to be for everyone.

[364] Well, I'm not in any pain, so if I took it, it would just to get fucked up.

[365] Well, elevate your mood.

[366] To elevate my mood.

[367] I'm pretty happy right now.

[368] I don't want to get more elevated.

[369] I'll do something silly.

[370] Yeah, you might.

[371] You never know.

[372] But also helps with that lowers your blood pressure, helps with anxiety, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?

[373] So you can look at it for several health benefits.

[374] But it doesn't get you to a point where you can't drive or you don't know how to type.

[375] I should probably be responsible and say it hasn't gotten me to that point.

[376] Hasn't gotten you to that point.

[377] But I have taken too much.

[378] much of it.

[379] Oh, okay.

[380] Give me one of them packets and tell me, like, how much you're supposed to take?

[381] Well, it's all going to be relative, right?

[382] I mean, like...

[383] You would take one of these?

[384] Like, what do you wait?

[385] One 90, 200?

[386] Yeah, somewhere in the range of 200.

[387] So 200, so I take six of them, but I worked up to six of them.

[388] Six pills?

[389] Yeah.

[390] I would suggest...

[391] This is a packet of pills.

[392] Sure.

[393] Now, now, Kratum a lot of times is taken in a powder form, but it tastes disgusting, so I can't handle the powder.

[394] So I just take the capsules.

[395] Yeah, somebody gave me, in a powder form, and I was like, oh, like, heroin.

[396] You know what I want to hear something really interesting.

[397] I was supposed to speak at an AA meeting the other day.

[398] And I got a phone call from somebody at the AA.

[399] If I took some right now, how much should I take?

[400] Take two.

[401] But, you know, like, I was supposed to speak at an AA meeting, and I got a phone call from a good friend of mine, and she said, well, I'm confused now because I'm not sure if you're sober.

[402] Oh, because you're taking Kratom.

[403] I'm taking Kratom, and it affects your mind.

[404] Oh, so now I need to.

[405] worry that you're fucking up.

[406] They're worried that I'm fucking up.

[407] And you know what?

[408] It actually hurt me. Like, it hurt.

[409] It hurt to hear that from somebody that, like, help me get sober.

[410] Right.

[411] It really hurt my feelings.

[412] Like, I don't mean to sound like a pussy, but like, hurt my feelings to hear like, hey, you're not sober from people I really look up to.

[413] Right.

[414] Well, I can understand their worry.

[415] I totally understand their worry.

[416] It's so confusing.

[417] It sounds like you're doing a heroin substitute, right?

[418] Sure.

[419] A natural heroin substitute.

[420] And it's been called, you know, herbal heroin.

[421] So I can see their concern.

[422] So is that maybe the same sort of.

[423] concern that led the DEA to take a close look at this?

[424] Because, I mean, if you look at it, I mean, everyone wants to worry that the DEA's in bed with big pharma and it's all about business and they're here to screw over the American people.

[425] Sure.

[426] Keep these legal, natural things away from us.

[427] But I had the same sort of reservations.

[428] I mean, I didn't know until you came in here today, I didn't know that you could operate cars on it and doesn't fuck with you and that you take it before a drive.

[429] Like, I would have never imagined that.

[430] I do.

[431] You know, I'm not saying that everybody, I don't want to be here and be irresponsible.

[432] I don't think every, I don't want to say, oh, everybody should take credit them and everybody, you know.

[433] But I feel like, I feel like I know that it's safe enough to try, for example.

[434] I know it's safe enough for anybody to try.

[435] So I've seen it.

[436] I've seen it in, you know, thousands of people that are using it.

[437] I get emails every day from people that take credum because we're doing a documentary.

[438] And you know as well, you know, when you're, I feel that media has the power to change your world.

[439] I feel like what you do, what I do, we have.

[440] actually have a voice and we have a power that can change people's minds.

[441] My film, bigger, stronger, faster, completely changed people's minds on steroids.

[442] It did.

[443] It changed my mind.

[444] It gave me a view into it that I never had before.

[445] And that, and then there was a, was it an HBO?

[446] Was it real sports?

[447] Did a whole thing on steroids?

[448] Yeah, real sports.

[449] Yeah, it was real sports.

[450] And they were, you know, essentially saying, where's the bodies?

[451] Like, everyone's talking about people dying from steroid overdoses.

[452] No, it's not what's going to happen.

[453] They were dying from pain pills.

[454] I didn't get to tell you how I turned around on marijuana.

[455] How?

[456] The Joe Rogan experience, listening to your show.

[457] You know, that's why I say.

[458] Media is important.

[459] I feel like we can change the world.

[460] We can change things.

[461] I was dead set against it.

[462] I thought it was for losers.

[463] I'm like, oh, Joe Rogan smokes pot.

[464] Maybe it's not so bad.

[465] So I started doing the research.

[466] I'm not saying I just jumped in and started doing it, but I've done the research, and I know enough that it's safe.

[467] You know, we know.

[468] It's 100 % safe.

[469] I mean, you could definitely take too much of it.

[470] Just like you were saying, you could take too much cratum, you can get too fucking high and freak out.

[471] That's true.

[472] But if you just get a little bit high, you're going to be all right.

[473] Marijuana and cratom are both miracle plants.

[474] They're both plants that are put here.

[475] You know, if you believe in God, I believe that, you know, these things were put here on the planet for us to use, to heal ourselves, to feel better.

[476] There's nothing wrong with feeling better.

[477] I think we have a big aversion in this country to people being able to feel better.

[478] Like anything, you know, I don't, you know, taking cratom, oh, it makes you feel better.

[479] Like, why is that a crime?

[480] It shouldn't be a crime.

[481] It should be, You know, we have alcohol on the market that makes people feel better.

[482] We have cigarettes and tobacco, and that makes people feel better.

[483] They get a little buzz from it or whatever.

[484] Why not Cratum?

[485] Like, what's the big deal?

[486] Yeah, we have a reluctance to indulgence in some ways, right?

[487] Like, we're worried about indulging in something, something pleasurable.

[488] Like, it's bad for you.

[489] Well, people say, oh, Cratum, I heard that makes you high.

[490] And I'm like, well, first of all, what would be so bad with that?

[491] Right.

[492] That's a good feeling for a lot of people.

[493] I don't see that that's so bad.

[494] to have a little bit of euphoria.

[495] Right.

[496] Now, being high on cocaine or crack or whatever, that's a completely different story.

[497] We're not talking about that.

[498] We're just talking about like a little elevation in your mood.

[499] Yeah, there's a big difference between being high and being impaired.

[500] Sure.

[501] Right?

[502] I think we put those two together, and they're always in the same category for some strange reason, and they don't necessarily have to be.

[503] Like a nice cup of coffee gets you high.

[504] Yeah.

[505] I mean, it does.

[506] Look, I drink a cup of coffee in the morning, and I start slap my hands together, and I want to start doing shit, you know?

[507] If I drank that little caveman coffee, Nitro, I'd be bouncing off the walls.

[508] Yeah, I'm sure.

[509] Because that's so strong, and it's, I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

[510] I love it.

[511] You know, I think it should be legal.

[512] And I think that, you know, if Kratom's in the same league as coffee and Starbucks is the biggest business in our country, like, why is it so bad?

[513] So since the people, like, you know, people that are sober and that are helping you with that, they have concerns about it.

[514] And there's a lot of people that are, it seems like this is a drug or a plant, I should say, that just does not have enough.

[515] there's not enough data.

[516] There's not enough research.

[517] None of research.

[518] And that's what we want to do.

[519] We would like, you know, look, every time there's been an epidemic in this country, we had a polio outbreak, right?

[520] And our president was affected by it.

[521] So what did we do?

[522] We decided, you know what?

[523] No more polio.

[524] Let's fix the problem.

[525] I don't see why the government doesn't say, look, we're losing a person every 19 minutes.

[526] This is way more serious than polio.

[527] Why are we not putting funding into researching things like cratim?

[528] There's other things that are like cratim too.

[529] Why aren't we researching these things?

[530] There's another plant called Akayuma, another plant called Soursop.

[531] There's several plants that are like cratum do similar things.

[532] Why can't we study those to stop the deaths to, like, slow it down, you know, to make a dent in the deaths from opiate addiction?

[533] There's no reason why the government can't fund that.

[534] Now, what are these other plants, Akayuma, and what was the other one?

[535] One's called Akayuma and one's called SourSop.

[536] And the reason why I even know about those is because what happens as soon as something gets banned, you look for the next thing.

[537] Right, right.

[538] Oh, wow.

[539] So you're a step ahead.

[540] I don't even know what those things do, but I know we, like, as soon as Cratum was banned, we were on the internet looking for like, well, what else is like it?

[541] Because I don't want to have to deal without it.

[542] Well, I think it was you that tweeted something, and I might have retweeted or just read it, but you tweeted something about someone getting arrested, like some big drug bust where they busted him for Cratum, which wasn't even illegal.

[543] Yeah, that's a weird thing.

[544] That was a guy, I think maybe because that guy's neighbor has had it out for him.

[545] They sort of like had it out for him, and they saw these big green bags of what they thought was drugs at his house, and the cops went to raid it, and they're like, we're not sure what this is.

[546] So we're going to have to arrest you.

[547] Oh, God.

[548] You know what I mean?

[549] It causes like a pretty weird problem.

[550] You know, the thing was when they made it illegal, I had two giant boxes of crate of them sitting in my garage.

[551] And all I could think about was like, okay, the cops are going to come here.

[552] and they're going to bust me because they know I'm doing a documentary about it.

[553] I'm going to be the marked man. But I decided that no matter what happened, I was going to keep those boxes in my garage and I wasn't going to worry about it because I figured like what are they going to do?

[554] Come arrest me, you know, how stupid that would look because that's all going in the documentary.

[555] Right.

[556] You know, so I don't really have a fear that other people have because I feel like I put everything on camera and put everything, you know, out there.

[557] So I feel like, but other people, it is serious.

[558] Like the vet I was talking about, He can't live without Kratom.

[559] What are we going to do?

[560] Take it away from him.

[561] What are we going to do in the meantime?

[562] You know, if we ban it, what are we going to do?

[563] What are we going to do with that guy?

[564] Yeah.

[565] Like, where is he going to go?

[566] Back on opiates?

[567] To the VA hospital?

[568] Like, it's...

[569] What a weird situation.

[570] So we really need you, Chris.

[571] This documentary is actually important.

[572] Yeah, it's very important.

[573] It's very important.

[574] It's very important because it's not just about Kratum.

[575] Yeah.

[576] This is about how the DEA and the FDA protect the interests of our federal government.

[577] government.

[578] And, you know, they keep the money all in the pool to themselves and they don't want anybody else in.

[579] And I feel like it's just greed.

[580] It's total greed.

[581] It's not, it has nothing to do with it being dangerous.

[582] Well, we're definitely more aware of that kind of greed and those kind of compromises where these companies compromise various branches of the government for their own personal interest.

[583] And this cratum is a perfect example of that because so many people, including me, know almost nothing about it.

[584] This is a weird one.

[585] You know, this is one where They almost got in like before people could understand what exactly it was, which is rare in 2016.

[586] There's something like that available.

[587] They've never had anything like this.

[588] The DEA has never seen, you know, a reply like this.

[589] There was 100 ,000 people that signed, you know, a petition.

[590] But one thing that I need to get out there to everybody, the one way we can keep this legal and keep other things legal as well is everybody needs to go to a website that the DEA is set up.

[591] It's called cratimcomments .org.

[592] So just k -r -a -t -o -m -comments .org.

[593] You can go there and you can leave, you know, up to a 5 ,000 -word message, you know, about Kratum, and it doesn't have to be from somebody who takes it.

[594] Like, you could just be like, hey, I think this should, I watched this podcast, and I really feel this needs to be researched more.

[595] And, you know, whatever you feel needs to be said, you can just say it here.

[596] So, you know, like, I went on and I left a comment about why I use it and what I like about it.

[597] And I feel like everybody that does needs to do that or they're not doing their job.

[598] And what is that?

[599] Put that back up again, Jamie, please.

[600] It says December 21st, December 1st deadline, submit your comments.

[601] Now, what is the deadline?

[602] Well, that's why I was a pain in the ass and kept texting you.

[603] Because I was like, dude, can we get on before this deadline?

[604] Well, it's very important that people know that there's a deadline for these comments.

[605] And it's in a couple days, it's December 1st.

[606] And if you make a comment by December 1st, the DEA has to read it.

[607] like they have to look at it so even if you write a bunch of gibberish they have to read it which is kind of funny but don't do that though folks they'll go he's on cratom he can't even fucking spell no but I'm saying they have to they have to look at all of them so if we can get 10 ,000 comments I think there's maybe half that right now and your show is so powerful if we can get 10 ,000 comments then this is going to stay legal wow so it was supposed to be schedule one they had a plan to make a schedule one a while ago it's very interesting the DEA only has one option The DEA has an emergency scheduling.

[608] So there was a drug called Flaka.

[609] Have you ever heard of Flaka?

[610] No. Jamie, can you look up Flaka, FLA, FLA, K -K -A, because you have to see this.

[611] Flaka was a drug in Florida where everybody was going crazy.

[612] They were like smashing shit and like...

[613] Really?

[614] They were like smashing through their car windows and jumping on cars and they were like zombies.

[615] And that got banned like immediately.

[616] And nobody, there was no...

[617] Like, there was nobody that stuck up for it.

[618] A new synthetic killer drug.

[619] Yeah, wow.

[620] That was something.

[621] See, it made him crazy.

[622] Yeah.

[623] Well, you see, like, what some of these people do.

[624] Like, look at these people.

[625] Oh, my God.

[626] That guy's on flaka.

[627] Is that real?

[628] But see, what happens is, I don't know.

[629] I don't know.

[630] It's a synthetic drug.

[631] So I think Kratom gets lumped in with these synthetic drugs like spice and flaka that are, watch this guy jumps into the back of the car.

[632] Oh, my God.

[633] Jesus Christ.

[634] Yeah.

[635] See, like.

[636] What the fuck?

[637] This is someone on flaka?

[638] Holy shit.

[639] Shit, do you imagine?

[640] That's like that movie.

[641] He goes flying off the car back into the car.

[642] It's amazing.

[643] Whoa.

[644] What the fuck?

[645] Why am I not here?

[646] Look at this guy.

[647] Smashing me, you know?

[648] Oh, my God.

[649] It's like the most entertaining video I've ever seen, so even if it's not real, I love it.

[650] But I think it was a drug that they were selling in head shops down in Florida, and it got banned within, like, I don't know, a couple months of it being on the market.

[651] Always fucking Florida.

[652] God damn Florida.

[653] the gatewayed demonic possession I was saying that seems like that's like I am legend like those fucking crazy things from that Will Smith movie and monsters yeah so this guy jumped on this guy's hood and he's trying to shake him off is that what happened all I'm saying is that when we sell things you know things that they sell in head shops like they sold spice remember spice was a synthetic marijuana and the problem with it is that a lot of times they're unregulated like nobody you know that spice just came on the market there was no regulation they were selling in head shops they were getting away for it Like, I think everybody puts this stuff on the market to get away with it.

[654] But when Kratum was put it on the market, it wasn't put on the market to get away with it.

[655] You know, it's been in, like, the problem is, like, there's a law in America called the DeShay Act.

[656] Have you heard of that?

[657] No. It's a DeShay is basically the dietary supplement health something act, right?

[658] I forget.

[659] But basically what it does is anything that was on the market before 1994 gets grandfathered in and is a legal supplement.

[660] So, like, even if they didn't do the research on it or whatever, before 1994, And that's something that Oren Hatch put in place to kind of keep the supplement industry, you know, to help the supplement companies.

[661] It doesn't help us as a consumer because we don't know what we're getting because there's no regulation.

[662] But I feel like that, you know, that DeShay Act says if there was a supplement on the market before 1994, that it needs to stay legal.

[663] And Kratum has been sold in Florida.

[664] They've been selling it for 30 years.

[665] You know, they've been selling it before 1994.

[666] So I'm actually just trying, I'm actually went to the Freedom of Information Act and summons the records.

[667] We summoned the records for importation of cratum.

[668] Now, if we can prove that cratom's been imported to the United States before 1994, we have a pretty solid case to say, you know, look, this gets grandfathered in just like everything else.

[669] Wow.

[670] So we grandfathered in as a nutritional supplement?

[671] I don't know.

[672] I mean, I'm sure they're going to make it harder than that.

[673] You know, I'm sure like if we have the proof.

[674] But I'm just going out at full blast.

[675] You know, I feel like if you go out something with everything you got and you look down every avenue, you're going to find something, you know.

[676] It's kind of like a, I feel like a lawyer right now.

[677] Wow.

[678] What a strange predicament.

[679] It's very unusual that there's something that's this well loved by the people that are taking it, but so little is known about it by most people, including me. I have to say something that's very important.

[680] The people that are against Kratum are just against the fact that they don't know a lot about it.

[681] Right.

[682] There's very few people that are like really deadsetting.

[683] against it.

[684] There's a congresswoman down in Florida who's dead set against it because they want to boost, you know, their election.

[685] They want, they want people to vote for them.

[686] So they say, oh, we took this off the street.

[687] We saved your children.

[688] You're like, she doesn't really know nothing about Kratum, like to make it illegal.

[689] What has she said about it?

[690] Does she, is she said anything eager?

[691] She told me, this is great.

[692] You interviewed her?

[693] Yeah, I interviewed her down in Florida.

[694] And she told me that, you know, look, when you talk to a mother who, whose baby was born addicted to Kratum, she's like, that's going to change you.

[695] And I, I said, can you get me that mother's name address and phone number so we can contact her?

[696] Yeah, yeah, sure.

[697] We'll get around to it.

[698] They've never produced that.

[699] We've asked me like she was claiming there really was a mother whose baby was addicted to cretum?

[700] We've asked three or four times and we haven't gotten it.

[701] However, however, I did interview a girl in Washington, D .C. Who said that her baby was born, she was born, her baby was born addicted to opiates.

[702] And that was a terrible, terrible thing that she had to go through.

[703] And now she takes cratom and she's fine.

[704] and she's not going to relapse and she'll be fine and her daughter ended up being fine and stuff like that.

[705] So what I'm saying is like, these opiates are what people would be born addicted to.

[706] Right.

[707] Not Kratum.

[708] You know, they're looking down the wrong, they're looking down the wrong rabbit hole, you know, like think, you know.

[709] So does Kratom have any potential addictive side effects?

[710] Is that?

[711] We don't know.

[712] It's hard to tell.

[713] You know, I can give you...

[714] How often do you take it?

[715] I take it usually every day, but I can give you some anecdotal evidence that I went to Thailand for two weeks.

[716] weeks a couple months ago and i had been taking cratum for four months straight then i had a two week you know in thailand we were actually shooting a kickboxer movie and after uh after i got back from thailand uh i wasn't i wasn't jones in for cratum like i i didn't take it for two weeks because it's illegal there so there was like a reason oh it is illegal there yeah like the last like i've never been to thailand and like last thing i want to do is show up to thailand and end up in thai prison yeah that doesn't sound fun no it doesn't sound fun at all so i was like you know i was Like maybe they don't even take this seriously there, maybe it's bullshit, but I'm not bringing it.

[717] But it is illegal over there?

[718] Yeah, it's illegal in Thailand.

[719] You know why it's illegal in Thailand?

[720] This is like, it's really interesting because if you look at this, you know, like Mangda is what they call it.

[721] It's like a kind of a Thai name.

[722] But the reason why it's illegal in Thailand is because it was cutting into the opium profits.

[723] Oh, Jesus Christ.

[724] So what happens is people.

[725] That's probably exactly the same pressure over here.

[726] Exactly.

[727] But pills.

[728] This happened in the 40s.

[729] 1944 or three, they banned Kratom and they wanted to, they basically kept it illegal because it was cutting into the money.

[730] People were taking it instead of opium, instead of heroin.

[731] Wow.

[732] Wow.

[733] And that's the same thing that's going to happen in this country, but it's going to be different.

[734] In this country, it's going to solve a problem, you know.

[735] Is opium legal in Thailand?

[736] I don't think it's legal, but like I think even, you know, it's like they just tried to get it, get, crate them out so that nobody was taking it.

[737] Oh, I understand.

[738] So the people that were profiting off of opium, period.

[739] I think Kratom's more illegal than opium, if that makes sense.

[740] That's hilarious.

[741] Wow.

[742] What a weird rabbit hole this is.

[743] Yeah, to me, the whole thing is interesting, because I completely get the other side.

[744] I don't want anybody taking something that's on safe.

[745] I don't want to market something that's on safe, but I don't make a dime from selling Kratom.

[746] Like, that's not...

[747] Right, you're not selling it.

[748] That's not where my income comes from, and I'm not going to sell it.

[749] So it's like, it's not something where I'm like, hey, man, I can make billions of dollars off this.

[750] Let me just go on.

[751] Not only that, if anybody would have an interest in not promoting something that's addictive, it would be a guy like you as an intimate knowledge of what it's like to be addictive and under the spell.

[752] Sure.

[753] I think addiction needs to be looked at in a certain way, though, where you look at addiction and you go like, okay, I'm addicted to coffee.

[754] It's no big deal.

[755] You know, like what is that going to, what is, what's the problem?

[756] What's the problem being, like, people are addicted to coffee?

[757] What's the problem?

[758] There really is no problem.

[759] You just need coffee.

[760] Addicted to sugar.

[761] will lead to problems down the road, but not a problem today.

[762] Addicted to cigarettes lead to a problem down the road, but not a problem today.

[763] You know, so we don't really know.

[764] There's not any long -term studies to show that Kratum is good in the long -term.

[765] There's not any studies.

[766] But we can go by the evidence that we do have.

[767] And they've done a lot of studies in mice, and all the studies in mice, like none of the mice die.

[768] You know, they're not.

[769] And the number one opiate addiction study they did was at University of Ole Miss. whatever that Mississippi.

[770] So Ole Miss, Christopher McCurdy, he's a guy that are doing the research.

[771] And he really feels that this could be the savior for the opiate epidemic.

[772] He feels that they need to make it stronger.

[773] He feels they need to extract it, make it stronger, and that would be used for the opiate epidemic.

[774] So that's why I said, I think there is potential for it to be studied as both a dietary supplement and as a drug.

[775] Because if you can make something out of cratum that's going to help a lot of people, you know, it's like what's the big I don't really see it as a big problem if it could be both right you know what I mean like let them make their money and whatever but keep it legal for us so in doing your documentary what have you what have you learned about the push to try to make it illegal and when did it all start it all started I think um shoot when did it start started like over the summer I actually started doing the documentary a little bit before it I was like well maybe people she should know about this maybe this is something so you were doing it just to let people know about it it and then along the way it started to be threatened it was weird it was like i started doing it going like is this going to be a movie or is this more like an infomercial like what is what is this going to be you know right like i don't i don't want it to be like an infomercial because i'm not selling it or making money off it i want it to be something that's very honest about what this product does and so to me the ban and the controversy is the best thing that it could ever happen because now people know about it and they're aware as long as it doesn't get banned we're okay you have a knack for that you know you think about it like in prescription thugs you're making this documentary on pill addiction and then you get hurt during the middle of it start taking pills and become addicted to pills during the middle of a documentary on pill addiction i'm either blessed or curse i don't know what i don't know what that is you know you might fucking manifest it or something man i hope not because actually the next documentary is about cancer oh the reason well the reason i'm doing that the reason i do all my documentaries is because i I said, we have the power to change the way people think and we have the power to open up people's minds about things that they might not know about.

[776] Well, and also explore things.

[777] You're very good at exploring things in a very objective way and a very honest way.

[778] And I think that that's so important in today's day and age because it's so hard to know why a person's promoting something in one way or not promoting something in another way.

[779] It's like what is the interest behind it?

[780] What's the motivation behind it?

[781] Sure.

[782] So to know that there's a guy like you who's doing this stuff, just completely honest and open and raw like that, it's very, very important.

[783] Well, thank you.

[784] I really appreciate it.

[785] Like, number one, being respected by somebody like you, it just means so much to me because, you know, all my life, all I ever wanted to do is, like, I always wanted to prove myself.

[786] I always thought I had to, you know, prove myself as a kid, like, I did this or that.

[787] But I feel like these movies just kind of automatically do that for me. I think you're absolutely right.

[788] They've been, like, automatically validating, like, everything.

[789] I've tried to do my whole life, you know.

[790] I wanted to be a big feature film.

[791] and make Arnold Schwarzenegger movies.

[792] And that couldn't be the fur—that's the furthest thing from my mind right now is to make movies that are, you know, big action movies that are mindless.

[793] I want to make big, you know, big documentaries that are smart.

[794] Well, it's interesting as life goes on and, you know, you change and evolve and, you know, your motivations change.

[795] But I recommend your movies to a lot of people, man, particularly the prescription thugs because of this so many issues that have come up over the last, you know, it seems like the last couple decades in this kind of.

[796] country are just, the unprecedented numbers of people that are addicted to pills.

[797] It's crazy.

[798] There's a couple million people walking around completely checked out.

[799] And I feel like it definitely needs to be, I still, I can't wrap my mind around why the government hasn't stepped in and said, we have to fight this opiate epidemic.

[800] I think they're getting paid off.

[801] Why isn't the government making the companies that make OxyContin?

[802] Like, for example, Purdue Pharma, Purdue Pharma admitted, like we got all these people addicted.

[803] We lied to doctors.

[804] They admitted it, and they got fined.

[805] But the fine was only, like, a little tiny percent of what they made.

[806] You get fined $200 million, or even if you get fined a billion dollars.

[807] You made $8 billion, who cares?

[808] You don't even feel it because you're going to make another billion next year, another billion after that.

[809] They actually call it the price of doing business.

[810] They build in those fines into the product, so they know, hey, we're probably going to get fined on this for $400 million.

[811] Let's just build it in the cost of the drug.

[812] I mean, it's an insane system that we have here for products that are supposed to help people.

[813] Well, it's also this disingenuous thing that politicians do with it, pretend they're looking out for the people.

[814] But yet, how come you haven't heard a single politician in decades, say a word about cigarettes?

[815] Obama got into office.

[816] He was smoking cigarettes when he got in, which is just, that's half a million people just in this country die prematurely every year because of that.

[817] And I think, you know, if we look at tobacco and we look at the problems with tobacco, what's the big problems with it?

[818] They put all these chemicals in the tobacco.

[819] And if they could just ban that, look, I don't think actually.

[820] natural tobacco is that bad for you well how many people are dying from cigars not a lot not a lot not not that i know i mean maybe it's abuse maybe if you get crazy with it but that's kind of like wine yeah wine is great but if you drink wine like four or five bottles a day you're gonna kill your liver yeah it's just like so many things but i feel like things like that like wine and so like wine feels like kind of like cratom has this sort of self -limiting thing like wine you could drink too much of it but you feel so shitty right and it's like cratom's kind of the same way like as you take too much of it, you'll just feel so crappy that you're, you're gonna know never to do that again.

[821] What does it do?

[822] Like, how does it make you feel crappy?

[823] Because you said you're taking too much, just stomachache?

[824] Stomachic, nausea.

[825] Um, you know, and when I say, so I guess I should, I should mention that what I actually took, I don't even know if it was cratum.

[826] What I took was a product, and I'll never do this again.

[827] It was, it was like some extract that somebody gave me and I tried it, and that's what made me sick.

[828] So it could have been way stronger than regular cratum.

[829] There could have been something else in it.

[830] But that's sort of, that was my first.

[831] like okay be smart about this look at the look at the packaging and a lot a big problem with a cratum is most of the cratum that's on the market this is the only company in the entire country or world that packages cratim like a dietary supplement every other supplement if you look on the back it'll say right here not for human consumption no that's a problem can they buy can people buy this right now yeah they could buy yeah for now sure yeah and this company is from Vegas so that they do a lot of business in Vegas they're actually in health food stores in Vegas explain it to people so they could get it and obviously you nor i have any stake in this at all this is called urban ice urban ice organics they have a website yeah i have a website i believe it's urban iceorganics .com or urban ice dot com i'm not even sure to tell you the truth but um any any like head shop you know should have cratum um they saw a lot of this in Vegas so in Vegas that it's all over um but you know what like the other thing we talked about It's like, why are they making illegal?

[832] Yeah.

[833] The guy who owns this company made a lot of money off of it.

[834] I'm sure.

[835] You know, millions and millions of dollars.

[836] So, like, when you make millions and millions of dollars, people want to know, like, hey, dude, you didn't go through the process.

[837] And I think Kelly and I were just talking, like, the process to make something a, you know, dietary supplement is a long, arduous process.

[838] And I feel like Kratum may need to go through that process because, like, we don't have enough information on it.

[839] And it hadn't been studied.

[840] It's sort of something that slipped through the cracks.

[841] Like, nobody really knew about it.

[842] It wasn't that popular.

[843] And it's been around for 2 ,000 years.

[844] And no one ever decided to say, hey, this is a dietary supplement.

[845] Wow.

[846] Now, these other ones that you were talking about, the other ones when you were saying, if this gets illegal, there's two that are similar.

[847] Name those again.

[848] What is it again?

[849] Sour Sop, I think is one of them and Akayuma, which is like, I don't think it's Japanese or something.

[850] But Akuyuma and Sour Sop, I've never tried them.

[851] I don't know.

[852] I've just read about them, you know.

[853] But they have a similar effect, allegedly?

[854] That's what it says, yeah.

[855] Yeah, that's what they say.

[856] But they haven't been as popular.

[857] So maybe, you know, like I feel like they're not as popular because it's probably not as good or strong, but I don't know.

[858] Man. So do we, have they isolated, like, what is the pressure to try to get it illegal?

[859] Yeah, we've kept trying to isolate, you know, and we've talked to the people that are against it and they're Congress people that are against it.

[860] They're grieving parents that are against it.

[861] we you know like nobody in big farm is going to come out and say hey we're going to make this a drug right and screw all you like they're not going to really say that so it's really when you get into Washington like we're just in Washington for a week and everything's so shady and underhanded in my mind like all these people are are working together they're all in cahoots you know like everything's in everything seemed to be like I don't know just the congressman that I talk to Mark Pocan from Wisconsin marijuana and cratim are both illegal there and he's kind of fighting for it to be legal.

[862] And like I said, he's one of the only Congress people I met that was like willing to go to bat for these kind of things.

[863] And I think we need more Congress people like that that are looking out for the citizens.

[864] So there are state laws against it?

[865] There's six states, I believe, that have banned Kratum.

[866] I think there, Wisconsin's one of them, Tennessee, Alabama.

[867] I don't remember the rest of them, but there's a couple states where it's banned.

[868] And what do they cite when they say that it's deaths?

[869] Deaths and.

[870] danger and kids taking it you know everything's about protecting the children and saving the children but you know none of the people in the cratum industry have never said like hey let's age restrict this let's make it you know 21 and over or 18 and over or 25 and over it doesn't you know whatever whatever they want to do like no one's even the FDA is never even come and taught like it's impossible and this is the big problem it's impossible to talk to the FDA or DEA I just spoke to the the spokesman for the DEA last week Melvin Patterson and I said hey Mr. Patterson I would really like to come down and do an interview with you he's like oh yeah sorry we don't do that and I want to say well you work for me like you know we pay their salaries I know people hear that all time but like I think there just needs to be more transparency 100 in the DEA and the FDA you can't find out the FDA is like Scientology like you can't find out anything about it like when you try to do research on you try to find out you know who's doing what or whatever there's not a whole lot of transparency and that's why documentary film like make like me have to use like the Freedom of Information Act, where if we request something from the government, you know, they have to give it to us.

[871] And that's something that really helps us.

[872] So this is a, I mean, we're talking about what a rabbit hole this is, but this is a weird rabbit hole for you to have started this out as something like you're finding this plant to be beneficial.

[873] You see all these people that are benefiting from it.

[874] You're like, hey, this is a great subject.

[875] I'm going to let the world know about it.

[876] And then as you're doing it, you start feeling this dark push for it to be Schedule 1 and to start making illegal.

[877] What's that journey been like?

[878] Weird.

[879] You know, I think scary a little bit because you start this thing and then I thought it was just going to go down the 2.

[880] I mean, I thought they were going to maybe make it illegal and then, you know, maybe we have nothing.

[881] You know, because once you make something to Schedule 1 drug, it's impossible.

[882] Ask the marijuana people, it's impossible to take it off of Schedule 1.

[883] It can happen, but it's really hard.

[884] So I think the idea is not to get it there in the first place.

[885] Well, there was talk about the DEA removing marijuana from Schedule I this summer, and they backed out of it.

[886] I just read some more about that today.

[887] That's still kind of up in the air, huh?

[888] Well, they got close to it, and they said they were going to reconsider it, and apparently a lot of people were very hopeful.

[889] They thought this is going to be it.

[890] Schedule 1 is ridiculous.

[891] No medicinal value.

[892] I mean, they've shown marijuana to cure some forms of cancer.

[893] To say there's no medicinal value for it, it's completely ridiculous.

[894] We need to start dumping our money in.

[895] to researching these plants because like how like look you have these pharma companies and I don't know if you've seen this show on discovery where they show you how they come up with new drugs they basically take like there's a machine and it's like this fucking robot and it takes like every fucking substance in the world and combines it until like it makes millions and millions of different different kind of fucking like things you know different kind of drugs and then they start testing it on like every different disease to see if it works so it's like it's like shooting in the dark it's like they have no like they're like there's a machine that'll just make a drug and then they figure out if it works on something rather than like we already know that cratim works for this this and this and we already know that marijuana works for this this this and this why not put the money into studying that rather than shooting in the dark making some weird combination of shit have you seen that no i haven't seen it at all i have to find that it sounds almost like it sounds like they're like you know that like they use those algorithms to try to work the stock market it's something like Yeah, similar.

[896] They're just throwing numbers up.

[897] Yeah.

[898] Well, there's a lot of them that come out real bad.

[899] I mean, I know a dude who had a stroke, a young guy from Vioxx.

[900] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[901] You should probably know about that.

[902] Yeah, Vyax.

[903] Arthritis medication.

[904] Yeah, I know the guy in his 30s had a fucking stroke on that stuff.

[905] Yeah, see, that's serious.

[906] They pulled it off the market.

[907] Yeah, they pulled that off the market.

[908] I think there was 55 ,000 deaths from Viox.

[909] And Cratum?

[910] Zero.

[911] Oh, weird.

[912] Marijuana?

[913] How many?

[914] There you go.

[915] How strange.

[916] Man, there's a business in selling people pills, you know.

[917] We live in a twisted world.

[918] We do live in a twisted world.

[919] The fact that people are going to keep that from somebody who's in pain is ridiculous.

[920] Well, I'm hoping that as time goes on, we're slowly starting to understand that it is impossible for your doctor to know all the ramifications and repercussions involved in any drug.

[921] I mean, there's just no way.

[922] I was just on the show, the doctors, with a doctor whose son was taking cratim.

[923] his son was a drug addict and he kind of found out about it and then his son said Dad I'm going to get off all the heroin I'm going to start taking Cratum and he said his son has been on cratim now for I don't know like six months he's been sober he's been happier than he's ever been and this doctor's 100 % you know down with it and he was on the show the doctors with me and he was arguing with you know there's a the guy from what's that show intervention one of the dudes from intervention was on the doctors with us arguing like Like, yeah, people get addicted to Kratom all the time.

[924] And it's like, dude, you're a marketing guy.

[925] Like, these people in rehab, like, you got to understand.

[926] The reason why if you Google Kratom, rehabs come up is because rehabs have marketing teams.

[927] They're trying to get as many people into the doors as they can.

[928] So they tell you Kratom's bad and they put it on their website.

[929] Narcanon is a big rehab center.

[930] They're owned by Scientologists.

[931] And they're all over the Kratom thing saying, like, are you addicted to Kratom?

[932] Call us, you know?

[933] And it's just like, I feel like the people that get addicted to her, like I went to rehab I've been in rehab that with people that were there for marijuana and you want to just be like dude what the fuck are you doing here like but remember celebrity rehab yeah yeah but but people do have a problem with it so it's okay like you can go to rehab for anything you know real so going for cratum is no different than going for like depression or gambling I mean you go to rehab for gambling so I don't I don't know why they're marketing it to people I think it's kind of sadistic in a way like they're looking for people that are on cratum you know like to you know if I I don't know.

[934] I mean, I don't know why they...

[935] Well, perhaps if they don't have any personal experience with it, maybe it's not as nefarious as we think it is, maybe they're just ignorant.

[936] Sure.

[937] And the good rehabs aren't doing that.

[938] I should say, like, where I went, Cliffside Malibu, they don't have a cratim thing on their website because they're a legitimate rehab center, you know?

[939] I was talking about celebrity rehab.

[940] I remember when Eric Roberts was on it.

[941] It was hilarious.

[942] Everybody else is shaking and throwing up and sweating.

[943] Eric Roberts sitting there with a newspaper, a cup of coffee, he's got slippers on.

[944] He was just in there for pot.

[945] Yeah.

[946] Like there was no withdrawal, there was nothing happened, you know?

[947] They're like, oh, what does it feel like?

[948] It's like, I feel fine.

[949] I just, I just don't have weed.

[950] Well, the problem with, when you tell somebody that they have a problem, they start thinking, fuck, I have a problem.

[951] You know, like, have you ever had a cop behind you and you never did anything?

[952] No, but you're like looking in the rear of your mirror and you got both hands on the wheel.

[953] Yeah, you're like, how's my license?

[954] Did you go ahead?

[955] It's good.

[956] My license is good.

[957] Did I pay my insurance?

[958] Fuck.

[959] I have a gun?

[960] There's no gun in this car.

[961] Why am I freaking out?

[962] Am I speeding?

[963] No, I'm going the speed limit.

[964] But meanwhile, there's something if someone tells you, hey, you've got a problem.

[965] You've got a problem.

[966] You might not think you have a problem, but you've got a problem.

[967] I'm like, fuck, you've got a problem.

[968] What's my problem?

[969] You know, your problem is cratum, or your problem is sex, or your problem is whatever the fuck it is.

[970] Exercise.

[971] You're addicted to exercise.

[972] Someone can tell you you have a problem, and then most of us are at least a little insecure.

[973] Almost everybody I know is at least a little insecure.

[974] And as soon as someone accuses you of something, you start considering the possibility.

[975] they're right yeah and then sometimes you try to hide it more yes that's that's my my you know as an addict i was like okay well now they're on me i better really really hide this i had a conversation one day with my dad i'll never forget it my dad is like the nicest person in the world you've seen him in the movies and one day um i was out of money i'm in my 40s and i'm out of money that's ridiculous that's stupid you know what i mean because i was a but i was a drug addict so my dad said to me i don't know what's wrong with you but i think you're a drug addict or an alcoholic or something but there's no reason why a guy in there 40 years old should be out of money.

[976] And I'm like, you know what, man, he's right.

[977] And it was that conversation that it was about three months before I went to rehab.

[978] But like that was the conversation.

[979] Huh.

[980] It was that conversation.

[981] It was my dad being disappointed in me. It was like that conversation that really sort of shook me to the ground.

[982] Like somebody telling me I had a problem, it like kind of shook me to the core.

[983] Because he yelled at me when he said it and he never yelled at me. Wow.

[984] Well, sometimes that's all you need is one person's opinion who you really.

[985] love.

[986] Yeah, booting the ass from dad.

[987] Yeah, and you go, shit.

[988] And my dad's been through everything.

[989] You know, he's had cancer, he's had you know, his half of his intestine pulled out.

[990] He's had all these issues and they're not due to drugs or alcohol, so it makes me feel even more guilty.

[991] Because, like, my issues are just due to something I'm doing.

[992] Right, right.

[993] Well, except arthritis.

[994] Yeah, but...

[995] I'm feeling it now.

[996] I don't know what it's doing, but something's going on.

[997] Got a boner?

[998] No. Does that happen?

[999] You should probably warn me. No. Shit, man. I wish.

[1000] shit.

[1001] No, just I feel good.

[1002] It doesn't, it's not negatively affect me in any way.

[1003] I don't feel slow or anything like that.

[1004] That's what I was assuming it was.

[1005] I mean, literally today, one of the things that I wanted to do before talking to you about this, I wanted to do no research because I literally wanted to just go in with my ignorance so that I can question you from ignorance.

[1006] Interestingly enough, if you try to do research, it's kind of biased right off the bat from Google.

[1007] Like I said, when you search Kratum, a lot of times what comes up are the rehab centers that are paying to be Oh, let's try it right now.

[1008] And then if you type in Kratom Ban, you'll get more of across the board up and down, you know?

[1009] I'm going to try it with Bing because I've been using Windows, so let's see if they have the same thing.

[1010] What you say?

[1011] You're mocking Bing?

[1012] I don't know.

[1013] Oh, no. Bing is not bad, man. I don't have any problems with Bing.

[1014] Okay.

[1015] Kratum Red on Amazon .com.

[1016] See, they're trying to sell you it.

[1017] they're trying to sell it.

[1018] Yeah, cratum red.

[1019] Okay, drug abuse, cratim effects.

[1020] Okay, Narcanon.

[1021] I did not know Narcanon is owned by Scientology.

[1022] I didn't know that either, but I have my buddy Anthony Roberts.

[1023] He was like, when I was doing Bigger, Stronger, Faster, was like this dude that would always hit me up online about stuff, and he kind of knew everything.

[1024] So I hired him to work on this movie as a researcher and a writer, and he's been teaching me a lot about how to find stuff, you know.

[1025] Let's see what the Narcanon people have to say about it.

[1026] effects of drugs.

[1027] So it's narcanon .org, the effects of drug abuse.

[1028] It says, Kratum is a relatively new drug to the U .S. and Europe, and has been used for many years in Southeast Asia as an anti -diarrieal medicine.

[1029] Hey.

[1030] Does it really?

[1031] You know, I've heard that.

[1032] Yeah, a lot of people.

[1033] So you've got diarrhea, you take Kratom.

[1034] A painkiller and a recreational drug.

[1035] Kratum is the popular name for a tree, and the drug comes from its leaves.

[1036] The drug may be bought in leaf form, but in this country is more likely purchased as a capsule with a powdered leaf material or chopped up in the form of a leaf that can be used for a tea or for smoking.

[1037] Yeah, this says tea on it.

[1038] Do people make actual tea?

[1039] Yeah, they make tea out of it.

[1040] Does it taste like shit?

[1041] It tastes like I think it tastes terrible.

[1042] It's pretty bitter, you know.

[1043] It says the effects of Kratom come on rather quickly and last between five and seven hours, although high doses can last longer.

[1044] It's heavily promoted as a legal, undetectable safe drug that can be used to come off stronger drugs it is not illegal in the united states but the breakdown products of cratum can be detected in some drug tests is that true like for people like work at uPS or something i haven't seen that happen no i don't think that's true they might be scaring you yeah you're probably trying to get you to join i don't think it would show up on a drug test because not an opiate it's not the it's not the same you know same ingredients says the breakdown products of cratum can be detected with some drug tests maybe maybe some drug tests that are looking well there are there is a specific drug test that looks for it you know that goes that will go in and look you know look for just cratum and that's what they that's what they use when uh somebody commits suicide or whatever and they said oh is there is there cratum in their in their system or whatever you know and there's 15 deaths from cratim 14 to 15 deaths are all polypharmacy which means you've were taking several different things right most of the time it's like polypharmacy but it's like oh they were taking you know zanax vikidin and cratum and you're like why would you blame it on the cratum it seems like the least You know, egregious of all of them.

[1045] If it's only in combination with other pharmaceuticals, that sounds crazy.

[1046] Then there's no deaths.

[1047] Yeah.

[1048] I mean, that's like marijuana, like, you know, it's like who knows how many people have died on marijuana and other drugs.

[1049] It's funny that you bring up Thailand because they're using Thailand as an example here.

[1050] More than 13 ,000 people were arrested for cratim -related crimes in Thailand.

[1051] That's just because it's illegal in Thailand to preserve the opiate industry.

[1052] They conveniently ignore that.

[1053] So the drug is abusive.

[1054] for its abused for its sedative or stimulating effects.

[1055] Not used, it says abused.

[1056] Well, see, the thing is, I don't think that, like, taking a normal, like, you know, I think if I took, you know, 50 pills a day, that would be abusing it.

[1057] I maybe take six pills a day, maybe at the most 10.

[1058] And even the term pill is a weird word because what you're basically taking is powdered plants.

[1059] Yeah, well, the term drug is a weird word.

[1060] If you went back and read that statement that you just read and substituted the word, plant, it wouldn't sound bad at all.

[1061] The plant comes as a powder, the plant is this, the plant does that.

[1062] It wouldn't sound bad, but when you use the word drug, it really paints it in a corner.

[1063] Well, drug is such a weird word because it covers too many different effects.

[1064] You know, it covers stimulants, depressants.

[1065] So here's what it says.

[1066] A person using this drug may expect or may not expect or want the following undesirable effects of cratum.

[1067] Edginess, nervousness, vomiting can be severe, prolonged.

[1068] Nausea can be severe, prolonged, sweating.

[1069] itching, constipation, delusions, lethargy, respiratory depression, tremors, aggressive, or combative behavior, psychotic episodes, hallucinations, and paranoia.

[1070] There's a big thing you just mentioned there.

[1071] Respiratory depression has not been shown with Kratum.

[1072] So they're fucking with you.

[1073] And that's what kills people with Oxy.

[1074] What about hallucinations?

[1075] Do people hallucinate on Kratom?

[1076] I've never met one.

[1077] Psychotic episodes?

[1078] Never met one.

[1079] Aggressive or combative behavior?

[1080] I never really experienced that.

[1081] The only thing I can say that I have experienced are, like, people that feel better and are in better moods.

[1082] Here's an interesting one.

[1083] Addiction effects may include, number one, loss of sexual desire.

[1084] People like, fuck this drug.

[1085] Loss of what?

[1086] It will actually prolong you during sex.

[1087] Oh, shit.

[1088] Prolong you.

[1089] So, like, make it harder to finish, basically.

[1090] Darkening of the skin or face, what do you want to be black?

[1091] That's why.

[1092] That's an effect.

[1093] That's why I take it.

[1094] A negative effect.

[1095] Well, no, you know what?

[1096] Where that comes from, darkening of the face and the skin.

[1097] Oh.

[1098] It comes from in Thailand when they did the study in 1975.

[1099] They were researching the workers, the workers out in the fields.

[1100] So the research of these workers out in the fields that were chewing the cratum leaves.

[1101] Say, no, they're turning brown.

[1102] Because they're out in the field in the sun.

[1103] So stupid.

[1104] So like, these people are turning brown.

[1105] Oh, my God.

[1106] That's so stupid.

[1107] And that's listed as a side effect, melanin.

[1108] Well, and then you'll have people.

[1109] like Congress people and other people that are fighting against us, try to use that as a fact.

[1110] Here's where it gets really weird.

[1111] Withdraw effects of creatum are very similar to those of opiate -like heroin or prescription painkillers.

[1112] Let's hear those.

[1113] Here's the withdrawal effects.

[1114] Diarrhea.

[1115] I thought it was anti -diarrhea.

[1116] Make up your fucking mind.

[1117] Muscle pain.

[1118] I thought it's good for pain.

[1119] Yeah, it's great for pain.

[1120] Muscle tremors or jerking.

[1121] Well, actually, the vet.

[1122] All his muscle jerking and twitching goes away.

[1123] They're saying that that's a side effect.

[1124] Restlessness and sleeplessness.

[1125] Does it help you?

[1126] You know, I haven't really stayed up all night on it.

[1127] But, you know, there's adverse effects to everything that we could possibly ingest.

[1128] So it's more like let's like take a big group of these adverse effects and see which ones occur more often, you know, in people.

[1129] And it really hasn't been shown.

[1130] across the board to do all these things to everybody you know so like there was one guy that was on cratum for three years and they said he's got to be addicted to cratum we're going to study him we're going to see what happens when he when we take him off crate you know when he gets off cratim so he gets off cratim and you know what happened to him what he had a runny nose whoa yeah that was the only the only thing that he complained about was like a runny nose here in large font it says narcanon can help the person who is addicted to cratum in large words and then it goes back while every drug has different effects oh man the root back to sobriety is much the same from person to person recovery must include relief from incessant cravings near the beginnings of rehab you know what we said about we were talking actually heard your podcast and you brought me up on a on another, you know, on another one of your podcast, and we're talking about time, the amount of time it takes to get sober.

[1131] Yeah.

[1132] And I still believe that, right?

[1133] I still believe, like, it takes time.

[1134] And I still believe...

[1135] To reset.

[1136] Sure, but the thing that we have to talk about is, like, you don't just take this and get off of opiates.

[1137] You take this, and you go to AA meetings, and you go to, you know, whatever works for you.

[1138] Counseling.

[1139] Yeah, you go to counseling, you go to a therapist, and you talk to them, you talk to them about why you couldn't get off the drugs and you tell them you're taking this and you say, hey let's see if we can if we can solve this problem you know but like right it's let's not be stupid about it like I went to the doctor and I got when I when I was addicted to opiates and I would drive around my car crying I'll be crying saying I just want help you know my brother was dying from this I knew he was going to die from it I knew it so I was drive around I would cry I'd be like I need I need rehab I need help I don't know what to do every rehab I called was like $4 ,000 $6 ,000 and I didn't have the money at the time I was a drug addict you know I was broke If I had known about something like this back then, it would have completely changed the person I am now.

[1140] I would have, I wouldn't have lost five or six years, you know?

[1141] Wow.

[1142] That's fucking crazy.

[1143] It's just crazy.

[1144] It's so weird when you're a grown adult and all of a sudden you find out about something that's been around for thousands of years.

[1145] It's been helping people.

[1146] You're like, I try to pay attention.

[1147] How the fuck did I miss this one?

[1148] For me, being like the guy who did bigger, stronger, faster, always talking about supplements and everything.

[1149] I missed it, too.

[1150] Wow.

[1151] You know, I know about every supplement on the mark.

[1152] I know everything on it makes.

[1153] You know, I know every supplement that's out there.

[1154] I look at them.

[1155] I want to see what they do, you know, and, you know, I missed it.

[1156] It's a, that is really fascinating.

[1157] It's just really, really fascinating.

[1158] So now we're in this state where the DEA held off its Schedule 1 distinction, right?

[1159] They were going to designate it as a Schedule 1.

[1160] Sure.

[1161] And the DEA, Isn't, I think, this big monster that everybody thinks, everybody's like, oh, the DEA and blah, blah, I think the DEA, I believe, from what I've gathered from this whole situation, is they're not happy about what happened.

[1162] They didn't know.

[1163] They weren't aware that this many people use Kratum and are happy about it.

[1164] I think that they really didn't know.

[1165] I don't think it's like, I don't think it's as devious as people think.

[1166] Like, I don't think it was a big, you know.

[1167] Now, it definitely could be something that is pushed by big pharma.

[1168] But I feel like the way that the DEA has reacted so far has been, you know, pretty normal, pretty like...

[1169] Reasonable.

[1170] Yeah, reasonable.

[1171] Yeah.

[1172] Like, it's been like, like, hey, okay, I'm sorry.

[1173] Let's open up a website and take some comments.

[1174] Well, I really hope people listen to this.

[1175] Get to it.

[1176] Give it the address that one more time.

[1177] It's cratimcomments .org.

[1178] Kratem comments .org.

[1179] K -R -A -T -O -M comments .org.

[1180] And so December 1st, once.

[1181] December 1st rolls around, which is right around the corner, what happens if they get a bunch of notes and, I mean, they have to get 10 ,000?

[1182] Is that what it has to be?

[1183] Well, they don't have to get any certain number, but I think if they get 10 ,000, it's like, that's the number we were, that everybody was, that's what you were aiming for?

[1184] Was aiming for.

[1185] You know, like, what's great is, I've actually become friends with a lot of people in this cratum community, and it's not the kind of people that you would think.

[1186] Like, you know, I feel like when I went to the Cratom March in Washington, D .C., I didn't know what kind of people I was going to meet, you know, but I, you know, but I I met, you know, mothers and grandmothers and, you know, like all these people that were like, they were like my mom, you know.

[1187] And I wasn't expecting that.

[1188] I was expecting to meet a bunch of people like, what's up, dude, you know, and that kind of, that kind of guy, you know, saying like, yeah, man, the government sucks.

[1189] Let's keep this legal.

[1190] Tower 7, bro, look into it.

[1191] It was, it was vets, you know, veterans that fought overseas for us and, you know, have risked a lot for us.

[1192] It was mothers and grandmothers and people like that more than it was of these.

[1193] devious characters that they think are using cratum wow so this is this is a really important issue and when when is your documentary going to come out we're hoping the documentary will come out early next year so it's just a matter of how fast we can get it together so we're almost done shooting okay so now so now it's just the editing process and then also are you going to wait around to see what happens after december first yeah yeah we'll wait around we're going to start editing we're starting editing right now so basically you know if things happen for example bernie sanders is one of of the guys who signed the cratum letter.

[1194] I want to talk to him.

[1195] He's kind of an amazing guy to me. I would love to pick his brain about this and see what he thinks.

[1196] So it's impossible to nail these people down, but you never know when you might get five minutes with Bernie at a rally somewhere.

[1197] So we're going to continue to try to get those bigger names that we wanted to get.

[1198] I think they're important.

[1199] Orrin Hatch is involved in this.

[1200] Orrin Hatch is a senator from Utah that's been very involved in the dietary supplements for a long, long time.

[1201] So we'd like to get his opinion on it and you know but like it's kind of crazy i would hope that the dea and the fda would listen to this interview and like sit with us and do an interview like i would love to like just let them speak their mind i i don't do interviews where i go in and an ambush people no you don't i let them speak their mind no you don't at all um i think i took it probably an hour ago right how long i take it 10 15 minutes into the show it's uh yeah i mean i guess i have like a mild very mild, stimulant sort of effect that I feel, but it's nothing to be concerned with.

[1202] You're not dying.

[1203] I'm not.

[1204] It doesn't, me, you know?

[1205] I mean, it doesn't really, like, I've taken some stuff before.

[1206] I was in Colorado this weekend, and I took a lot of edibles.

[1207] Whoa.

[1208] Who those fucking people aren't screwing around, man. They're going deep in Colorado.

[1209] Yeah, man. I heard your special talking about edibles.

[1210] That was amazing.

[1211] Oh, but you're pretty sensitive to him too, right?

[1212] I guess.

[1213] I don't know, man. I'm more sensitive than Joey Diaz.

[1214] Joey Diaz, like, I'm on that level, like, 300 milligrams.

[1215] Yeah, that's cool.

[1216] That's what you take?

[1217] Oh, I don't even do it because I just have to take too much of it.

[1218] Well, one time I did a podcast with Sam Harris recently, and I have this spray that is a thousand milligrams.

[1219] Like, I guess it's a thousand milligrams in the whole bottle, but it's like, I don't know, I don't know exactly.

[1220] That's a spray?

[1221] Yeah, this is the more mild version.

[1222] one's 175 milligrams which i think yeah it's like 20 milligrams of pump or 10 milligrams between 10 and 20 milligrams of pump depending on how strong the stuff who makes that uh this is jombo jombo makes a bunch of great stuff all organic these like honey and jambbo where do you get that at a dispensary i'll hook you up but the uh hey you want one of these take this one take the spray enjoy don't get crazy you know what's weird i don't i don't like to smoke pot i like i like this stuff better because I'm just so used to taking things like that so and I also feel like I don't want to get back into the whole my girlfriend would flip out if I started smoking pot you know but to use some like edible stuff and play around with this and see if it works for pain and stuff like that to me is something that's very very viable isn't that funny where people worry about like smoking is like oh he's smoking drugs yeah yeah yeah but if you're spraying breath spray under your tongue it's like ah he's just relieving pain you know I just think we need to open our minds to a lot of these substances that are out there that can help us you know yeah you know it's great to say don't take anything that's not the world that we live in though right well CBDs you know CBDs are great because they're not psychoactive at all yeah and uh Shannon Briggs who was just in earlier said that's helped him tremendously is this CBD that's pot that'll get you fucked up son be careful be careful be very careful but um you know the the difference being the edible version of marijuana has a very different psychoactive effect too that's why a lot of people think they're getting spiked you know like they'll eat a pot cookie and they'll think, oh, my God, somebody put acid in this.

[1223] Because it's really psychedelic, and the way it's processed by the body, your liver produces this metabolite called 11 hydroxy metabolite, and it's just way more powerful than THC.

[1224] You're the only comedian that I've seen bring, like, science into the act.

[1225] Oh, into that bit.

[1226] That was amazing.

[1227] Like, I was, you know, just to kiss your ass a little bit.

[1228] That entire special is at the top of the game.

[1229] Oh, thank you very much, man. Bill Burr and all those dudes.

[1230] Thanks.

[1231] I'm hustling.

[1232] Oh, that's great.

[1233] So I wanted to get you, I don't have a whole lot of times, I wanted to get you in here today and get it done.

[1234] But what else, can you tell people about this and what else can be done?

[1235] I think that people need to go to creatumcomments .org, leave a comment.

[1236] People can, you know, they can call the DEA.

[1237] They can ask for Melvin Patterson.

[1238] He's the spokesman.

[1239] They can leave a message with him.

[1240] I think this creatumcomments .org, though, is going to be the most effective.

[1241] And also, like, people need to seek it out.

[1242] And people can hit me up on Facebook or Instagram.

[1243] I'm pretty readily available.

[1244] So if people have questions and want to, you know, hit me up, then just hit me up.

[1245] I mean, I'm at Big Strong Fast on social media, and I will answer questions as much as I can.

[1246] Like, I'm not, I don't hide from people, you know?

[1247] No, you don't.

[1248] And when the documentary's out, can you come back in and I'll watch it and we'll talk about it and we'll, and hopefully we'll have some good news about it.

[1249] And all right, folks, I'm high.

[1250] I'm cratim right now.

[1251] It doesn't do anything.

[1252] My brother wants to get back in here with you too.

[1253] Okay, I love that, dude.

[1254] Smelly, yeah.

[1255] Can I mention something about him?

[1256] Yeah, for sure.

[1257] He's got a big sale going on for, uh, The Black Friday, if you enter the code Rogan, it's 20 % off.

[1258] Is that for his slingshot?

[1259] How Much Your Bench .net is his website for Slingshot.

[1260] All the Slingshot products.

[1261] I had to plug them.

[1262] Okay, beautiful.

[1263] Well, a shout out to Mark.

[1264] All right.

[1265] Well, thank you, Chris.

[1266] Really, really appreciate it.

[1267] And do you have a name for this documentary?

[1268] Right now, we're calling it a leaf of faith.

[1269] A leaf of faith.

[1270] I like it.

[1271] So if you have a new name, we'll have to people like, a fucking look for it.

[1272] I think I dig that name.

[1273] It's cool.

[1274] Let's go with it.

[1275] A leaf of faith.

[1276] Beautiful.

[1277] Thanks, Chris.

[1278] Appreciate it, man. I appreciate it.

[1279] It's like a fucking wrestling match talking to you.