Victoria Beckham

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Mr. Mous.

[3] Hello.

[4] Hi.

[5] There's an important update I got to give for this guest.

[6] Oh, yeah.

[7] Okay.

[8] Or what do you think it's going to be?

[9] That you use this year.

[10] Uh -huh.

[11] You know, you're on to me. You're on to me. Victoria Beckham, our guest today.

[12] When she was here, she was here to talk ostensibly about her skin care line.

[13] Yeah.

[14] And she had left behind.

[15] And makeup.

[16] Makeup.

[17] And she had left behind some gift packages.

[18] Oh, my God.

[19] And so when I'm talking to her, I haven't used it.

[20] And I'm not super into skin care products, right?

[21] Yeah.

[22] I have to admit, I have since become religious about this.

[23] What is it?

[24] I'm using an elixir.

[25] A serum.

[26] A serum.

[27] A serum.

[28] I'm using a serum.

[29] Might as well be.

[30] And then I'm using a moisturizer that buckle up, hold on to your hats, is tinted.

[31] So I'm basically wearing makeup now.

[32] And I love it.

[33] Listen.

[34] Oh, I love wearing makeup.

[35] I said I don't want to act anymore because I don't want to wear makeup.

[36] Guess what?

[37] I love wearing makeup.

[38] Dissive moisturizers, great.

[39] When I opened up the packages, I screamed.

[40] You screamed because you knew.

[41] Oh, my God.

[42] The Victoria Beckham makeup line is so good.

[43] Yeah.

[44] And very coveted.

[45] It's hard to get.

[46] It sells out and runs out.

[47] Uh -huh.

[48] And she sent us so many.

[49] products.

[50] And I was so happy.

[51] And one thing you also didn't know is the level of fashion she is.

[52] I did know that by the time we interviewed her.

[53] I just hadn't used the product.

[54] But if you recall, I learned coming into the interview that she's like the row.

[55] She is.

[56] She's a huge fashion label.

[57] And was, I think when we talked, we were just coming off Paris Fashion Week, which is the creme de la creme.

[58] The cream of the cream.

[59] Yeah.

[60] Is that what that means?

[61] cream of the cream Crem de la crem Crem?

[62] I think so Cream of the cream Why don't we say that here In English?

[63] I think it sounds stupid It does Oh my God If you guys been to Top Hat Burger It is the cream of the cream Of hamburgers Best of the Best Of the Best Well that's what it actually means But cream That's like they're telling you What it means Not what it literally translates to It's cream of the cream I know it's best at the best Top at the Top Okay anyways Victoria Beckham Creamizes to the top Victoria Beckham's brand that we're talking about is called Victoria Beckham Beauty.

[64] And you can go check it all out at Victoria Beckhambeautcom.

[65] Oh, and I also, I want to urge everyone to stay tuned to the fact check if you've been following at all the developments of a previous story, an embarrassing story.

[66] Yes.

[67] We have a really exciting update and surprise guest.

[68] Stay tuned.

[69] So please enjoy the proprietor and manufacturer of my new favorite makeup, Victoria Beckham.

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[73] He's an armchair expert.

[74] I have a girls over last night, you know?

[75] Oh, yeah, how was that?

[76] It was really fun.

[77] Did you make food?

[78] Mm -hmm.

[79] It was really good.

[80] What did you make?

[81] It was a pasta bake, so it had butternut squash.

[82] It had spinach, lots of cheese, and then noodle.

[83] Like, basically like a deconstructed lasagna, but fall flavors.

[84] Uh -huh.

[85] It was very good.

[86] I got to show off my velvet pumpkins.

[87] Probably went to sleep at midnight.

[88] My sleep's been so messed up.

[89] Are you getting up in the middle of the night?

[90] Yeah.

[91] Hello there.

[92] Can you hear?

[93] us?

[94] I can.

[95] I feel like I know you very well.

[96] I know all about your sleep patterns.

[97] I know all about your pasta bake or whatever it was.

[98] I mean, that's inspiring.

[99] Oh, wow.

[100] You've heard everything.

[101] Oh, my God.

[102] My husband would be jealous if he knew because I am not a very good cook, but you sound like quite the expert.

[103] Well, I'm trying.

[104] You know, I'm trying to get better.

[105] I like a dinner.

[106] I bet you do a lot of hosting.

[107] Yeah, but somebody else does the cooking.

[108] Yeah, that's smart.

[109] That's really the smart way to do it.

[110] They wouldn't come around if I was cooking.

[111] Let me tell you.

[112] Can I suggest a route into it for you?

[113] There's a step -by -step plan to become Monica hosting a party, which is first, you find a chef you love on YouTube.

[114] Do you already have one?

[115] We do.

[116] And then you start watching their tutorials.

[117] Monica will spend four hours in a wormhole watching these chefs cook dish after dish after dish.

[118] And if you can just find yourself interested in that, naturally you'll just at some point go, well, fuck, I want to try this.

[119] this.

[120] I think maybe I could follow those directions.

[121] And then she started dipping her toe into that.

[122] That's right.

[123] By God, she's following the shit out of the directions.

[124] And my wife says they're always 100 % mind -blowing these recipes.

[125] Wow.

[126] Could you commit to YouTube as just a step one?

[127] Okay.

[128] I'll put that on my to -do list.

[129] Wonderful.

[130] I recommend Allison Roman.

[131] That's my chef.

[132] She'll like that shout out.

[133] Allison Roman, if you need a wreck.

[134] Okay.

[135] I've only had one bad instance where I made a fish that did make my apartment smell for like two weeks.

[136] Oh, okay.

[137] But that wasn't great.

[138] Victoria, would you agree?

[139] Are you on the same page as me that someone should not cook fish in a small apartment?

[140] 100%.

[141] All vegetables.

[142] That can be bad as well.

[143] Oh.

[144] Yeah, like stinky broccoli.

[145] If you think about it, yeah.

[146] It's like when you're in an office space and people heat up their lunch and they've got vegetables and it's cold.

[147] So the windows aren't open.

[148] Yeah, you've got to have a cold food only policy in the office space or you're heading for disaster.

[149] Or like an industrial.

[150] vent system.

[151] Something has to give.

[152] A hundred percent.

[153] Are you joining us in Miami?

[154] Where are you at right now?

[155] I'm in New York.

[156] You're in New York.

[157] Okay, lovely.

[158] Now what's interesting to me is I learned more about you today.

[159] You guys do live in Miami, yeah?

[160] Or at least for some period of time?

[161] No, we actually live in London.

[162] But we are in Miami and we have a place in Miami because David has the football club there.

[163] So we go back and forth.

[164] And I love Miami.

[165] I feel that everywhere that I spend most of my time, whether it's London, Paris or New York, Miami, Miami.

[166] Everything that is not okay is okay in Miami, and I find it really inspiring.

[167] I couldn't agree with you more.

[168] So I went to the Formula One race there this year.

[169] I got my hands on this big 34 -foot boat that I started driving all around the Biscayne Bay and the intercoastal, and I got down to some keys.

[170] And I had that exact feeling you're talking about, which is I was looking around and I was like, they're in a different decade maybe.

[171] There's some freeness to everything.

[172] No one's overthinking anything down here.

[173] it is really liberating people celebrate their bodies less clothing the better i mean i feel like if i was to go out dressed how i might dress if i'm sort of like in london or new york or paris they would honestly look at me like i was absolutely about shit crazy it's really liberating they just don't care and i love it i do too there's also all these little pockets you must love it as a designer like i even found going to these little islands you could bring your boat up to you there was like a big group of Dominican kids that were all on jet skis, and they had their own style.

[174] And then we were driving the boat downtown.

[175] I was looking at the shore of these fancy restaurants, and there was another pocket of unique style.

[176] Like, there's all these little microcosms of style down there.

[177] Would you agree?

[178] Yeah.

[179] And do you know what I love?

[180] My favorite thing to do is in Winwood of the weekend.

[181] You go down there late at night.

[182] And I mean, the graffiti, the art is really quite incredible.

[183] Actually, it's absolutely beautiful.

[184] But then you go down there late at night of the weekend.

[185] And it's like a scene out of the Fast and Furious.

[186] Yes.

[187] Literally those cars that kind of like bump along the street and they have lights underneath them.

[188] And it's a real scene.

[189] And it's amazing.

[190] Yes.

[191] You know what it is?

[192] I think there's like a homogenization to most places.

[193] In Miami, no. Unpredictable.

[194] Nothing's homogenized.

[195] It's just here's a pocket of interesting, lively culture.

[196] Here's another pocket.

[197] Yeah, people are enjoying life.

[198] And that's what I love.

[199] That's what I love.

[200] Look, let's not forget, it's good for your skin.

[201] That humidity might make your hair a little bit tricky, but it is good for the skin.

[202] I couldn't agree more.

[203] I know, but it's a give or take with the hair.

[204] I guess whatever your priorities are.

[205] I would imagine for you, you'd prefer the skin over hair.

[206] That's safe to say.

[207] Yeah, that's true.

[208] But I grew up in a very humid place, and my hair didn't like it.

[209] Okay.

[210] You're from London, a suburb, Atlanta, Detroit, all high humidity places.

[211] My skin was just fine growing up.

[212] I've been in L .A. for 27 years.

[213] And it's fucking a mess.

[214] It's red sometimes.

[215] It's flaking out of nowhere.

[216] It doesn't like it.

[217] But I lived in L .A. for quite a long time.

[218] And everybody says that about L .A. And I don't know what it is.

[219] When you first move there, your skin does tend to erupt.

[220] Because of the dryness, I assume, and the smog.

[221] It protests.

[222] Okay.

[223] Wait, hold on real quick.

[224] Just because we're talking about cities.

[225] What's your favorite fashion city?

[226] Ooh, most inspired?

[227] Yeah.

[228] Do you know, I do love London.

[229] it's very multicultural, and it's my home, and I love being in London, but I've recently just done my first show in Paris, which for any designer is the ultimate dream.

[230] And for me, you just can't beat Paris.

[231] I mean, it is the fashion capital of the world.

[232] And though what I do as a brand, I'd like to consider as quite universal, being in Paris is just so damn chic.

[233] It is.

[234] Yeah, it is.

[235] Yeah, all of a sudden, everything you're dealing feels like an art installation.

[236] Like, we were They're not too long ago.

[237] We're having coffee at Cafe de Flora, one right next to it.

[238] And just sitting on the sidewalk, I'm like, oh, I've got a whole scene I've created here.

[239] Like, I'm an art installation now.

[240] It's very sexy, right?

[241] It is.

[242] I love it.

[243] I love the energy.

[244] And it was a real flag in the sand moment for me a couple of weeks ago doing that show there because it was just everything I expected it to be and so much more and couldn't have been more of a success.

[245] And after coming out of COVID and restructuring my business and as an independent brand, having a show in Paris was a big deal.

[246] Yeah, did it feel like you were signaling the end of that?

[247] What, COVID?

[248] Yes, like, okay, we're done.

[249] Oh, God, I hope so, don't you?

[250] I just said that this is 14 years that I've been in the fashion industry.

[251] And in the middle of COVID, when we were restructuring the design team and the business and the attelier, I said to myself, if I have an opportunity to do another show, I'm going to really enjoy it.

[252] You can get bogged down with the pressure and the stress and you almost take for granted.

[253] the fact that you do a fashion show, and I just said I'm going to really enjoy it.

[254] You can miss it, right?

[255] You can, like, miss the experience.

[256] I've done it.

[257] Totally.

[258] So it's a lot of fun.

[259] Yeah.

[260] You're, like, at home, you're laying in bed, and then you're trying to retroactively be present and enjoying it, and then it's gone.

[261] It's too late.

[262] Yeah.

[263] Well, I really, really enjoyed this, because I love what I do.

[264] You know, I'm very honest about everything I do, whether it's fashion or beauty.

[265] It's always coming from a very, very honest place.

[266] It's never about me just putting my name on anything.

[267] You know, I've been doing this a long time now and having fun and enjoying the journey and what I do is a huge part of it.

[268] Okay.

[269] I want to start at the beginning because I have a friend who told me a story about his son not wanting to be driven to school and a car he owned, which just blew my mind because so I'm from blue collar Detroit.

[270] I would have literally done anything, including sexual, to be dropped off in a rad car when I was a kid.

[271] That would have been everything to me. And I loved reading that your dad drove a Rolls and you made them drop you off away from school.

[272] Same thing.

[273] Is the grass always greener?

[274] Is that story a lie?

[275] No, that is true.

[276] So my father had a brown Rolls -Royce that he was very proud of.

[277] He was a real entrepreneur completely self -made.

[278] In the 80s, he did pretty well for himself.

[279] And he had this brown Rolls -Royce that he was very, very proud of.

[280] And he used to take us out in this car all the time.

[281] And I remember it was the same time that Barbara St. Dryden had the guilty album with Barry Gibb.

[282] It's my favorite song of all time.

[283] Yeah, we play it a lot.

[284] I bet ten times a week that song gets played in my house.

[285] I love it.

[286] And so my father used to drive us around listening to that guilty album.

[287] He'd be saying, and we got nothing to feel guilty for in this rolls.

[288] I've worked my ass off to build this business, electrical engineering.

[289] Now we're going to enjoy.

[290] Oh, no. Did you just ad -lib that or had you practiced it?

[291] Because that's impressive.

[292] I ad -libbed it.

[293] Don't be too impressed.

[294] I get it wrong 50 % of the time.

[295] That happened to go okay.

[296] That was very good.

[297] Did you like that I threw electrical engineering in there?

[298] I guess that was the part that was going to be hard to layer in.

[299] That was very good.

[300] Very impressive.

[301] My God, if only we'd have known you when we're in the Spice Girls, I mean, when we were writing our own songs, if we'd have had you there?

[302] Phantom writer.

[303] Actually, was he like, let's own this shit.

[304] There's nothing to feel guilty for.

[305] I worked my ass off for this.

[306] So he's got one perspective, right?

[307] See how you did it again?

[308] You just threw in guilty.

[309] Yeah.

[310] Are we talking about the guilty album?

[311] You're throwing it in there.

[312] So we had the Rolls Royce, but then because he was an electrical wholesaler, he also had a van.

[313] And me and my sister used to say, like, please drop us in the van.

[314] Because I think that more kids at school were being dropped off in a van.

[315] And so when we were in the rolls, we'd be like, oh, please, drop us down the road.

[316] We were a little bit embarrassed.

[317] nowadays, I'd be like literally pulled right up to the front gate and I'd be proud to get out of that rolls.

[318] Yeah.

[319] So I bring that up to say, you just can't do right by your kids, right?

[320] Is that kind of the lesson?

[321] It's like, I would have died to be in the roles.

[322] You had the roles in Juanu.

[323] Nick Kroll, the great comedian, his dad had a limousine.

[324] He was humiliated by being driven to school in limousine.

[325] It's like, you can't really get it right, can you?

[326] You can't.

[327] And I mean, David was having this conversation the other day when he was dropping off Harper, who is our youngest daughter.

[328] She's 11.

[329] And she was like, Daddy, can you drop me a little bit away from the school?

[330] Now, he was obviously, firstly, heartbroken.

[331] She's our youngest daughter.

[332] And he was like, oh, really, this is happening.

[333] And then he was like, if it's uncalled that David Beckham's your dad, I mean, let's be honest, what hoped are most of the other kids have.

[334] Yeah.

[335] I'm going to tell you, Victoria, we have the only two girls in the world who could care less about Frozen.

[336] It's just a law.

[337] Your kids can't find you remotely cool.

[338] Let's be the most generous we can be.

[339] Is it that they just want to build their own identity and they know that, okay, my dad is David Beckham, my mom is Kristen Bell, my mom's Anna from Frozen.

[340] I want some separation from that because I need to be me. It could be that and they could have some subconscious element of knowing that already at that age.

[341] It's tricky because we've woven in fame.

[342] First was just financial, which I think is interesting.

[343] Originally, it's embarrassing to be opulent, I guess.

[344] Unless you're broke, then you're dying to be opulent.

[345] I love opulence.

[346] different is something that's pretty scary when you're a kid, right?

[347] I mean, look, it could have just been that David was wearing a bad outfit that day.

[348] It could just be as basic as that.

[349] Yeah.

[350] Well, Victoria, I had gone and dropped them off a couple weeks ago.

[351] I talked about it, and I didn't realize I had crusties.

[352] I hadn't washed my face good enough.

[353] And I had a long conversation with another parent.

[354] Got in the car, looked in the rear of me and I was like, oh, my God.

[355] You had eye boogers.

[356] It wasn't even eye boogers.

[357] It was just whatever.

[358] You're in a skin, you know, I didn't look great.

[359] And I thought, oh, my God, this poor parent had to talk to me for that long thinking, Oh, my God, go wash your face.

[360] So he could have been having a morning like that.

[361] Yeah, you never know.

[362] You just don't want to be different when you're a kid.

[363] And so I just wanted to blend in, you know.

[364] I didn't want to stand out in the roles.

[365] Was your dad a character?

[366] Is he a character?

[367] I don't know if he's still alive.

[368] Yeah, he is.

[369] Thank you.

[370] It's a real hard worker.

[371] I think that's where I get my work ethic from is from my dad.

[372] And I was never the best at anything as I was growing up.

[373] I was quite bullied at school.

[374] So it was always about working hard.

[375] Nothing ever came easy to me. My dad was the one that really inspired me. He didn't have a particularly good education and just made the best of himself, for himself, and for his family.

[376] Okay, so you see an episode of Fame or you maybe watch the entire series.

[377] We're at the same age, by the way.

[378] So any reference you have, I'm with you.

[379] So you watch Fame and you're like, okay, I want to be a performer.

[380] Is that apocryphal or that's the truth?

[381] Listen, I don't just want to be a performer.

[382] I wanted to jump on a yellow cab.

[383] I wanted to move to New York.

[384] I was obsessed with fame.

[385] I had like a velvet red traffsuit that had fame embroidered on it.

[386] I mean, I was completely obsessed with it.

[387] Did you have that, Dax?

[388] No, no, I was into like, Fall Guy, Duke's a Hazard, the boy version of, I guess, fame.

[389] No, I loved it.

[390] But they were supportive because you almost immediately start studying dance and modeling and all these things, right?

[391] So your parents obviously weren't standing in the way of that.

[392] No, I was never a model.

[393] I'm very much not a model.

[394] I would need to be a dancer.

[395] wanted to be a ballet dancer, then I did tap, and I did modern, and then I did singing.

[396] And then along comes an audition for some streetwise chicks that can sing and dance.

[397] I have to know, A, when you read that, how high did you let your hopes go?

[398] Two, what was the scene like when you arrived for such an open kind of call?

[399] Wait, and this was in London, I assume.

[400] Yeah, so there was a newspaper called The Stage that used to come out every week in the UK.

[401] And that's where there would be adverts where you could audition for Western theatre productions, top list dancing on a cruise liner, never really the one that I went for, pop groups, you name it.

[402] Clubs in Vegas.

[403] It was what all performers used to look at and then you would go for the audition.

[404] And I remember seeing this audition for a girl group and just decided to turn up and it was in London at a dance studio.

[405] And there were thousands of girls that had been queuing up around the block.

[406] And we would just go in one at a time and sing in front of the managers at the time.

[407] Had that group of people, those managers, had they already had some success with other groups?

[408] They had had no success.

[409] They had none.

[410] They had no success.

[411] They had a dream.

[412] It was a father and a son.

[413] And so everybody else was singing Madonna pop songs.

[414] And then I came from a musical theater background.

[415] So I stood up and sang a song from Cabaret.

[416] I sang mine hair.

[417] So whilst everybody else is singing in Madonna, I'm like, dun dun dun, dun, mine hair.

[418] I mean, so theatrical and so wrong for what it was.

[419] But obviously got their attention.

[420] I mean, they saw something in me. God knows what it was because I look back at those early videos and I'm like, wow, what did they see?

[421] Well, I'm going to go back in line for one second because I used to show up to these auditions for products.

[422] And I was in between her.

[423] I wasn't handsome enough to be at these other ones.

[424] And I wasn't charactery looking enough to be the guy at the counter of Hertz.

[425] So I just always was at an audition.

[426] I'd look at these guys.

[427] I'm like, oh, these guys are fucking gorgeous.

[428] Look, there's one after another.

[429] This guy's a 10.

[430] Look at this guy.

[431] There's a lot of sizing up.

[432] Yeah.

[433] When you were in that line, you're checking out the competition.

[434] What was your confidence level at that point?

[435] I always knew I wasn't the best at anything.

[436] And to be honest with you, I don't know how I did keep showing up because, you know, I used to audition for lots of things.

[437] I mean, I probably can still remember the audition of cats, the musical, like the white cat dance.

[438] I mean, I used to turn up every time, and I was kicked out every single time.

[439] Do you have to crawl around like a cat and act cat -like feline for those?

[440] Do you know, you actually do?

[441] Oh, oh, Victoria, this...

[442] That's upsetting.

[443] Take a second to mourn that.

[444] But there's more to it.

[445] It's not just crawling around like a cat.

[446] I mean, it's a full -on dance routine.

[447] It's very, very difficult.

[448] And I don't know what it was that kept me going, to be honest with you, because I had a vision, I had a dream, and I was never going to let go.

[449] And every time I got turned away from one job, I just picked myself up and I went for another one.

[450] It was always, always about being honest and working hard.

[451] I'm just curious what your insecurities were.

[452] You were like, I'm not tall enough.

[453] I'm not short enough.

[454] What kind of insecurities were you walking around planet Earth with at that time?

[455] I was never the most talented.

[456] I always had to work really hard at it.

[457] you know, back at school, I was never the most academic.

[458] I had to work really hard at it.

[459] I was always a little bit of a misfit in a way.

[460] And so I suppose normal insecurities that everybody has when they're a teenager.

[461] Was I a model?

[462] No, you know, I just made the best of what I was.

[463] I was pretty average.

[464] Here's mine.

[465] My nose was too big.

[466] My chin was too weak.

[467] I didn't have a six -pack.

[468] That was a bummer.

[469] My hair line could be lower.

[470] I would be happier if it was lower.

[471] A little thicker.

[472] A little thicker.

[473] I've blonde hair.

[474] So I was wrestling with that.

[475] These are just, I was scanning the room going like, oh, that guy's got a beautiful button nose.

[476] And look at the jawline on this guy.

[477] My God, I feel bad for you.

[478] Did you have a lot of therapy to get over all of this?

[479] Recently, I've had some therapy, yeah.

[480] Well, no, I was just betting on different shit.

[481] But in those moments, you're not being judged on your personality.

[482] It can bring out the scariest side.

[483] We always said that the five of us were kind of jack of all trades, but probably masters of not a hell of a lot each.

[484] But we worked together.

[485] We were all very different.

[486] we all complimented each other.

[487] I always assumed with these teen groups that they created themselves, like that we've always been friends and then we sought management and stuff.

[488] Like there was already a chemistry and a want to do a group.

[489] But what would the odds be of like five people being friends that are that hot and talented?

[490] Like that would just be a really wild.

[491] It would, but I think that's what people think when they see these groups.

[492] I think that's what they're selling.

[493] Yeah, that is what they're selling.

[494] chemistry.

[495] But though we were put together, nobody put those characters on us.

[496] So I always looked that way.

[497] I was the one in the little black dress and the brown bob.

[498] Emma, when I first met her, she had little blonde pigtails and like a little white dress on her.

[499] So we were all the characters.

[500] Right.

[501] They weren't crafted to suit you.

[502] You were innately that way.

[503] Correct.

[504] And we just worked together.

[505] Individually, maybe we were all a little bit misfittity, but together we worked.

[506] Well, you're supposed to be streetwise.

[507] That was one of the criteria.

[508] So when you come together, do they like mix and match?

[509] You got a callback, I'm assuming.

[510] They've whittled down this 2 ,000 people to, I don't know, 100.

[511] What was the next round?

[512] There was about four different callbacks.

[513] And each time, there were less and less girls.

[514] And they would give us a song to sing.

[515] Were they pairing you at any point during this part, or still just individual performance?

[516] No, they started putting us together.

[517] They started trying to create a song.

[518] five piece, if you like.

[519] Was there anyone there that then became a star?

[520] Just us.

[521] When you guys are put together, at that moment, they tell you, okay, here's what we're going to do.

[522] We're going to record an album.

[523] We're going to do some appearances.

[524] I don't know.

[525] I'm curious.

[526] When they laid out the plan for you guys, I have to imagine it was much more modest than what ultimately happened.

[527] Like, what did you think originally you guys were going to do versus what you ended up doing?

[528] Well, originally, the guys that put us together wanted one of us to be the lead singer and four to be the backup and we didn't want that.

[529] We all wanted to have a go.

[530] And don't forget, this was at a time when there weren't any successful girl groups.

[531] It was all about boy bands.

[532] And I mean, the amount of times that we were told a girl group's not going to work.

[533] A girl group is not going to get on the cover of a magazine because it's only boy groups that work.

[534] And we were banging on about girl power saying, we don't want to conform.

[535] We want to do what we want to do.

[536] You know, they'd send us choreographers and we were like, yeah, no, we don't want to do that.

[537] We just want to jump around and do our own thing.

[538] You know, we don't want to be told what to do.

[539] We don't want to sing anybody else's songs.

[540] We wrote everything ourselves.

[541] Oh my God.

[542] Yeah, we choreographed ourselves and we went in the studio and we made it happen.

[543] So, but right away, are you like, holy shit, this works.

[544] On paper, this shouldn't work.

[545] Let's get five strangers together and let's see if they can write some songs together.

[546] Low likelihood of success.

[547] So as the songs are coming out and you're like, fuck, that's good.

[548] Are you pretty shocked?

[549] Are you starting to believe in it?

[550] We knew we had something quite special.

[551] We had a couple of sessions where we would perform in front of writers and producers and we could tell from the reaction that what we had was something quite special and quite different.

[552] And then it really was just about spreading the goal power message and letting the music speak for itself.

[553] You know, the music was good ultimately.

[554] That is so funny because that CD, the wannabe CD.

[555] You were seven years old when they formed in 94.

[556] That was my first CD.

[557] Get the fuck out.

[558] Yeah.

[559] Oh my gosh.

[560] That was my very first CD.

[561] Hold on.

[562] Can I add one thing for context.

[563] Victoria, immigrant parents from India.

[564] I'm always amazed by what their experience must have been, especially her father who came to America at 29 years old.

[565] He's got this cute daughter who becomes a cheerleader and she's like buying these kind of CD.

[566] Like dancing to spice girls in the basement.

[567] Okay.

[568] Anyway.

[569] Yeah.

[570] I'm sure that was quite a scene for him.

[571] Yeah.

[572] So that was my first CD.

[573] And I do think my generation of women are, I don't want to say the first, but kind of the first to feel really empowered as women and feel like we can do our own thing.

[574] We can be entrepreneurs.

[575] I wonder actually now that you're saying this, how much of a role that first girl band played in it.

[576] Because we did get to see these cool girls doing their own thing, being a little rebellious but in a harmony.

[577] You guys weren't fighting with each other.

[578] I don't know.

[579] I just think maybe that played a role.

[580] Of course.

[581] And how we all...

[582] Anytime you saw women succeeding and being in charge of their destiny, it's more proof that it's possible.

[583] For the first time, really.

[584] Well, and I think that also as individuals, none of us were outstanding.

[585] We all looked different.

[586] We celebrated being individual and making the best of who we were.

[587] And it was okay to be different.

[588] That was our message to everybody.

[589] It was okay to not look at it.

[590] a certain way.

[591] And it was about girls supporting each other, being together and having fun.

[592] And we used to say, yeah, we're better than boys.

[593] You know, we've been told we couldn't make it on the front cover of a magazine.

[594] You put the Spice Girls on the front cover of your magazine, and it was the biggest selling magazine at the time.

[595] So we were about breaking down boundaries.

[596] And, you know, when the Spice Girls came into your office, if you work for a record company, it was like a whirlwind.

[597] I mean, we literally used to go in.

[598] And it was like a scene from fame, to be honest with you.

[599] We'd put on the cassette, and then the girls would all jump on the music executive's desk, you know, and just dance around the room.

[600] That lucky fucking executive, Jesus.

[601] When you were like, you've had nine meetings that day, and then all of a sudden these 5, 20 -year -old gals walk in and jump on your desk and blow your mind.

[602] It's amazing because so many girls do say exactly what you said.

[603] I mean, I remember Beyonce saying to me once how much she loved the Spice Girls and how the Spice Girls had inspired.

[604] her.

[605] Adel has said the same thing and that Katie Perry, there has been so many women that have said to me, you girls really did inspire me. Wow, you must be so proud.

[606] There's another lucky, and you've already said it twice.

[607] There's A, you guys hit the chemistry lottery.

[608] B, it's helpful that there isn't a Michael Jackson in the group.

[609] Like if you're the Jackson Five and then there's Michael Jackson, there's going to be some really unavoidable tensions surrounding that.

[610] Because he was so much better in me. He's just like years better than everyone.

[611] It's going to just create tension.

[612] And it happens on casts of television shows too, right?

[613] It's like you've got five really good people.

[614] And then one person is fucking Eddie Murphy from Sarenet Live.

[615] And he's opening huge movies on the summer break.

[616] You know, it happens and it creates all these dynamics.

[617] I also am curious, do you think it allowed you guys to elevate your own confidence in a way that could have never been achieved individually?

[618] Like, did you guys just feel safe as this quintuplet of like, fuck it, if we're all committed to each other, we'll go anywhere and jump on a desk, because there's some safety in the numbers.

[619] A hundred percent.

[620] I don't know if I would ever have come out of my shell if I hadn't have met the other spice girls.

[621] I was very self -conscious when I was growing up.

[622] And the girls gave me the confidence to be me, you know?

[623] I would never have had that confidence before.

[624] So I do owe that to them 100%.

[625] I'm a completely different person to how I would have been.

[626] I was quite reserved.

[627] I give my credit to Aaron Weekly.

[628] I just want to be me without him.

[629] Had I not had that one person that totally loved and believed in me. Sees you.

[630] Yeah, and I felt just safe to be experimental because I was with him.

[631] And I was like, ah, the worst case, you hate both of us.

[632] I can live with that.

[633] We'll still be fine.

[634] Yeah, and we had each other's backs all the time.

[635] I mean, it was like going on a world tour with four of your best friends.

[636] And I think the other reason why girls liked us is because everybody could relate to one of us.

[637] Yeah, everyone picked who they were.

[638] We were all doing that.

[639] Yeah.

[640] Okay, I didn't realize I'm embarrassed to admit.

[641] Of course, I knew about the Spice Girls.

[642] I'm on planet Earth.

[643] But we're talking about 1994.

[644] I'm a year out of high school.

[645] That's not what I'm listening to.

[646] So I don't know that I realized you guys sold 100 million albums until today.

[647] Still the biggest girl band.

[648] Yeah, biggest female band of all time.

[649] Do you also ever think about how much you were saved by sharing that bizarro experience with four other people to be able to touch base with them everywhere you went so that you didn't end up believing your own shit?

[650] 100%.

[651] I cannot imagine if you're on your own.

[652] But if you are a solo artist and your life goes from one day being let's say quite normal to all of a sudden something completely different.

[653] I mean, I went from one day just, you know, I've got a younger brother and a younger sister.

[654] I'm very close to my mom and dad and one day I was just me And then the next minute, there were fans outside the house and there were paparazzi outside the house.

[655] I mean, you see videos of Beatlemania.

[656] That's what it was like everywhere that we went.

[657] It was just a sea of people and paparazzi everywhere that we went.

[658] And on the front page of the newspapers every single day.

[659] And I cannot even imagine if you were going through that on your own.

[660] It's so scary, I think.

[661] For these female artists, I'm addicted to all these documentaries about like Whitney Houston.

[662] in.

[663] There's two great ones on her.

[664] Brittany.

[665] Brittany, Winehouse.

[666] I'm obsessed with them.

[667] And I think about, I've been nervous with one thousandth of the level of fame as a six foot two man. I've been in New York and gotten nervous.

[668] This is a lot of people.

[669] I no longer have any control of this situation.

[670] And I imagine being 5 '3 and it's 15x that, 100 X that.

[671] And you're a woman, just in general.

[672] Yeah, as a woman, there's something primally terrifying about it.

[673] 100%.

[674] And also you've got to think that with a lot of these solo artists, you know, it's about who you surround yourself with as well.

[675] And that can be really, really dangerous because you have access to everything and everyone and everybody is on a salary.

[676] Another reason why I was so thankful and grateful to my family and also all the other Spice Girls families, we were all very, very closer.

[677] There were a lot of people to keep us really, really grounded other than just ourselves because because it would be really easy to just go crazy.

[678] There are no limits.

[679] It's a weird world to live in when there's no boundaries.

[680] The 100 million albums is mind -boggling.

[681] I'm imagining in that six -year run, were you guys touring nonstop?

[682] We had a couple of tours, actually.

[683] The tour that we did in America, it's a funny story.

[684] I found out I was pregnant when I was on tour.

[685] And the first show in America was August in Miami in an amphitheater.

[686] Fuck that.

[687] Honestly, I was in a PVC cat suit that was expanding by the day.

[688] I had a wig on to try and get the humidity under control.

[689] And I had a bucket on the side of a stage that I was throwing up in constantly because I had such bad morning sickness with Brooklyn.

[690] Ampute theaters in Miami in August.

[691] Yeah, it was 100 degrees, right?

[692] Oh, my gosh.

[693] Honestly, and we had 103 shows in America.

[694] Morning sickness does not always.

[695] mean you're only sick in the morning.

[696] Let me tell you, I was sick 24 hours a day with Brooklyn, and I was on tour being thrown around.

[697] Oh my gosh.

[698] Speaking of him, this relates to what you were just saying, because he's an entity on his own at this point and his wife, that's like, you know, a thing everyone's following and I'm on Vogue.

[699] I know all these things.

[700] Hold on a second.

[701] Your son's married?

[702] Isn't he 23?

[703] How old is he?

[704] Yeah, he's 23, yeah.

[705] I mean, congratulations, but I'm terrified.

[706] 23.

[707] They seem very sweet, but it is young, but yeah.

[708] Oh, my God.

[709] But, I mean, they are a couple that people are looking at, people are clocking, there are stories on them, they're on Vogue.

[710] Are you monitoring that?

[711] Are you trying to give advice on fame?

[712] We're so close to our children.

[713] I think it's all about communication.

[714] You're just trying to do the best that you can as a parent and support your kids.

[715] You want them to be happy, hardworking, good, kind human beings.

[716] But ultimately, you know, the kids have got to do what they're going to do.

[717] You've just got to be there to support them.

[718] love them?

[719] Absolutely.

[720] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[721] We've all been there.

[722] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[723] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[724] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[725] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[726] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[727] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[728] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[729] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon music.

[730] What's up, guys?

[731] This is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[732] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[733] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[734] And I don't mean just friends.

[735] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[736] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[737] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[738] Okay.

[739] You all got along.

[740] This is a self -serving question.

[741] Are you friends with Jerry still?

[742] I am still friends with Jerry.

[743] Yes, I'm friends with all the girls.

[744] But why Jerry?

[745] She's married to the team principle of Red Bull Racing Formula One.

[746] Christian, yes, yes.

[747] And I'm just thinking you have really supreme access if you ever wanted into the Red Bull world, which I'm, of course, envious of.

[748] Absolutely.

[749] I'm actually seeing Jerry next week.

[750] So I will introduce you to Christian.

[751] He's great.

[752] David was at the Formula One as well.

[753] Oh, really?

[754] In Miami.

[755] Yeah, in Miami.

[756] Everyone was there.

[757] It was a big deal.

[758] I mean, he was hard to miss because he was there with Michael Jordan and Tom Brady and Lewis Hamilton.

[759] Yeah, there's a photo.

[760] It's probably like the goadiest photo of all time.

[761] It's those four.

[762] That's amazing.

[763] Yeah.

[764] It's people like your husband who fuck up my access.

[765] So it's like, I get, when I show up for practice, I'm a. big dog there qualifying i'm getting access to a lot come race day the shacks the jordan's the tom brays they started arriving and d ship gets slid right on down the access ladder i'm not so sure i believe that you're you fishing for compliments d 'act i think you are telling you the reality of the weekend as it unfolds okay now the transition between spice girls in the solo career has to be a very harrowing experience for a few years.

[766] Yeah.

[767] And to be honest, my passion was always fashion and beauty.

[768] But I think when you've been in a group, you think that your solo career is going to maybe be in the same industry.

[769] And it took a while for me to realize, actually, what I always wanted to do was create a modern luxury, fashion and beauty house.

[770] That was really what I always wanted to do.

[771] and it took time for me to realize and to have the courage to do that.

[772] But before you found your way, you have now this second whole impossible thing happened to you, which is your fashion line in your skincare line.

[773] It's as improbable as the spice girls is, but there's a gap between those two things.

[774] And I'm curious, what were you anchored into in that challenging time that kept you not getting defeated?

[775] Well, I got married and I started having babies as well.

[776] and I used it as an opportunity to really focus on what I wanted to do.

[777] And the first thing I did actually, myself and David had a fragrance.

[778] We had a celebrity fragrance, which was enormously successful.

[779] It was one of the first celebrity fragrances actually in the industry.

[780] What was the promise of it?

[781] Like, it was a smell of your bedroom?

[782] Like, what was the promise?

[783] You know, you could smell like me and David.

[784] Yeah, I want to.

[785] I really enjoyed the process.

[786] And what that did is that it put me in a position to be able to really focus on what I wanted to do next.

[787] You know, I was using that time to also work as a designer for other brands.

[788] A lot of collabs, right?

[789] Yeah.

[790] And learning, working for other people's brands, which is advice that I would always give to anybody.

[791] You know, if you can learn from somebody else's brand, somebody else paying the bills and really just be a spund and soak up as much information as you can, then do it.

[792] So I was working with other brands.

[793] Until I was working with other brands, was in a position to bring it all in -house and do it all myself independently.

[794] But that must have been an interesting time for your identity, especially because, like you said, part of the beauty of Spice Girls is that you all brought something to the table.

[795] You were very cohesive, but it wasn't like there was one standout person or it wasn't like you came out of it as, I mean, Insink will probably be mad to me for saying this, but Justin Timberlake came out of Insink as Justin Timberlake.

[796] He landed a little bit on his feet.

[797] Yeah.

[798] And I think for you guys, you didn't have that as much.

[799] It must have been like, who am I without these people?

[800] Like, I would feel that if this show ended.

[801] It'd be like, who am I without Dax?

[802] That would just be hard, I think.

[803] Yeah, when you share an identity with people, it's interesting.

[804] Yeah.

[805] But I was going into a very, very different industry.

[806] And also then, you know, I was married.

[807] I had children.

[808] I just decided to really do what I always wanted to do to follow my passions and my dreams.

[809] Okay, so before I came to interview at you, I was telling my wife, who I was interviewing today, and my wife said, you're tied as her very favorite designer with Rosetta Getty.

[810] I'm pretty blown away by that.

[811] My wife is obsessed with fashion, as is Monica is obsessed with fashion.

[812] That was informative to me, like, oh, you didn't just succeed at it.

[813] You're my wife's very favorite designer.

[814] There's an article by Alexander Fury, which he kind of details this transition between like a novelty brand and then a respected designer.

[815] And that transition, did you have guidance for that?

[816] That's an almost impossible feat.

[817] And I'm just curious how long that took.

[818] And was there a moment where you're like, God damn, we did it.

[819] For me, it was always about the product.

[820] You know, I was very aware of people's preconceptions because of my past, because of the Spice Girls and also, you know, being married to a soccer player.

[821] Thanks for changing it for us in America.

[822] Yeah, that was really considerate.

[823] You see how I just do it?

[824] naturally.

[825] And I was aware of people's preconceptions and so I knew that the product had to speak for itself.

[826] These weren't just licensing deals.

[827] You know, nobody was bringing product to me and me just putting my name on the product.

[828] Not that there's anything wrong with celebrities that do that.

[829] There's space for everybody.

[830] But for me, it was different.

[831] It was about really being involved in every single aspect.

[832] And I'm being very honest.

[833] I'm creating clothes that I want to wear.

[834] I'm creating makeup and beauty and skincare products that I want to use myself.

[835] So it's very, very honest.

[836] And I am, and always have been very, very involved.

[837] It is so ironically posh and chic.

[838] It is so chic.

[839] I always say at the Neiman's in Beverly Hills, there's floors, right?

[840] So then the downstairs is accessories.

[841] And then one floor up is the best fashion.

[842] Okay.

[843] Designer -led fashion?

[844] Yes.

[845] And then you go up one more flight.

[846] And there's gray fashion there too, but it's not the same.

[847] And your stuff is on the second floor.

[848] It's always beautiful.

[849] It's very structured and gorgeous.

[850] I love it.

[851] Simple, elegant, timeless.

[852] I love it.

[853] Yes, timeless.

[854] Thank you.

[855] You know what I like is you don't draw.

[856] That's not your approach to designing clothes.

[857] You say you like to play.

[858] And we are professor and professor as playfulness.

[859] Playful, Max.

[860] So I love that that's your strategy.

[861] And then I just wondered, is that an insecurity originally?

[862] Like, oh, I guess I should be sketching.

[863] No, I think, listen, everybody has their processes, and for me, it's about creating mood boards and creating vintage, and I express to my design team in other ways other than sketching, not all designer sketch.

[864] Some people drape.

[865] You know, everybody has a different process.

[866] It doesn't really matter how you get there, as long as you get there, and I just have a different way of working.

[867] So how does it work?

[868] I watch the video.

[869] She's in there with all these fabrics, and she's literally like, woo, do -da -do, she's holding this up.

[870] Oh, I think this should be like, It looks like my daughter's playing with Barbies and clothes.

[871] Oh, fun.

[872] I do like to have fun.

[873] I take what I do very seriously, but I think having fun is very, very important.

[874] And I think that you get that sense of playfulness through both my fashion and beauty.

[875] And that's very much one of my brand codes, if you like.

[876] So it's about creating mood boards.

[877] The start of the season, it might be a contemporary piece of art that has inspired a color palette.

[878] It might be a movie.

[879] that we've seen, where the woman has inspired the silhouette of the season.

[880] Inspiration can come from anywhere and everywhere.

[881] It might be a great piece that you have found in a vintage store, for example, or a detail that you have found on something.

[882] So it's different every season, but I do love to have fun.

[883] Could be a fast and furious street race in a neighborhood of Miami.

[884] You're right.

[885] It could be a neon light under a car where you're like, uh -huh.

[886] Yeah, absolutely.

[887] Okay, it seems a lot more organic and easy as someone, who I'm sure love clothes, collected clothes, mixed in match clothes.

[888] That one seems like it'd be easier to transition into.

[889] Now, skin care, I don't really understand how someone goes like, yeah, I understand these products.

[890] It's not like you're an alchemist, right?

[891] You don't have an apothecary in your bathroom that you're mixing solvents.

[892] So how do you decide you're going to tackle that with some proprietary take on it?

[893] You're making me sound like a scene out of Breaking Bad.

[894] You know that.

[895] In the RV.

[896] Was it more daunting?

[897] I guess that's the question.

[898] I had a collaboration a few years ago with Estée Lauder.

[899] They approached me to do a capsule collection.

[900] And I really love that whole process.

[901] And beauty is something that I wanted to do for a long, long time.

[902] And over the years, I've collected lots of products and had little things made up by makeup artists.

[903] And I knew what I wanted to create.

[904] I wanted to create what I personally couldn't find and that I wanted in my makeup bag.

[905] And I think that the Estée Lauder collaboration was such an enormous success that it proved that there was an appetite for Victoria Beckham Beauty.

[906] But for me to create my own brand with a strong focus on inclusivity and clean beauty that doesn't compromise something actually doing what it says it's going to do, you know, that was creating a luxury beauty brand of the future.

[907] And I knew that to do that, I had to do it on my own.

[908] And so I decided to do it on my own and work with some of the most talented people in the industry.

[909] You know, I have an incredible team.

[910] I have a great couple of girls that get in the lab and work on the formulas with me. You know, I also love to go to the lab.

[911] I obsess over the details, the size of the pigments in the eye palettes, for example.

[912] All those little details are something that I'm very, very involved in and always have been right from the beginning.

[913] So when I decided to go into skincare, I wanted skincare that I was going to.

[914] to use.

[915] And there was a professor that I was interested in called Augustinus Bada.

[916] I don't know if you've used his products.

[917] But he's an incredible guy.

[918] And I was intrigued by his product and the TFC8, which is what he created that he puts in his formulas and how that rejuvenates the skin.

[919] So I went to Professor Bader and I said, hey, listen, I've got this dream.

[920] This is what I want to create.

[921] This is what I can't find out there.

[922] And I wanted to partner with him because I knew what I wanted.

[923] I knew I wanted it to tighten your skin and lift.

[924] And I knew that I wanted it to give you the most incredible glow.

[925] But I also wanted the skincare benefits as well.

[926] And for me, he was the best in the industry.

[927] And so we decided to partner on these skincare products.

[928] I feel like there's a throughline willingness to learn.

[929] That seems to be.

[930] And collaborate and be a part of a team and share credit.

[931] Exactly, like understanding the importance of collaboration.

[932] 100%.

[933] And for me, I always say I'd rather have a piece of something as opposed to a whole of nothing, to be completely honest.

[934] And I'm very aware of my strengths.

[935] And you know, where I also need the help of others as well.

[936] And I just felt that for me to collaborate with him would ultimately create skincare that is very, very different and something that isn't out there.

[937] So we created two products.

[938] It's our two -step program.

[939] We have a serum.

[940] And then we have a cell rejuvenating priming moisturizer that comes in two different shades.

[941] Because like I keep saying, being inclusive, so, so key, and has been right from the beginning when I created this brand.

[942] And the results have been phenomenal.

[943] The product has really spoken for itself.

[944] You might not know this.

[945] Same with the fashion.

[946] I'm out of your element a little bit.

[947] Yes.

[948] Yes.

[949] I'm out of my depths.

[950] But this is like you with cars, right?

[951] Yeah.

[952] I'm on Violet Gray.

[953] I'm on Ediporter.

[954] I see as soon as a Victoria Beckham beauty product comes out, it's sold out.

[955] Immediately it is sold out.

[956] And I'm always angry because then I can't buy it.

[957] And your team, you sent me, sent Kristen and Dax products.

[958] And you sent me and Kristen so much of your beauty line.

[959] And I screamed when I opened it.

[960] I literally was like, oh my God.

[961] It was crazy.

[962] Christmas.

[963] I'm so happy.

[964] I'm not sharing with anyone.

[965] She floated in on a little cloud, a little moisturizer cloud.

[966] I was so happy.

[967] You are.

[968] I really was.

[969] Because they are incredible products.

[970] And one thing I do want to ask you about, this is with your beauty in general and fashion.

[971] I spend a lot of money in this space.

[972] Sometimes people are like, whoa, if I like am wearing pants from the row and somebody asked, what is that?

[973] And I'm like, oh, it's the row.

[974] It's like, Oh, wow.

[975] I feel kind of guilty spending money on it.

[976] And I need help explaining why it's okay for me to do that.

[977] I'm going to add a detail to help your answer.

[978] She's fucking rich.

[979] No, truly.

[980] I mean, I'm not spending more than I'm making.

[981] I guess we'll say that.

[982] Well, look, I'm glad you like the products.

[983] I'm so proud of everything.

[984] I really am.

[985] And like it, it's all about the product and making women feel like the best, empowered version of themselves, you know, the whole experience with beauty, the packaging.

[986] All of those details, the details that I have been involved with right from the beginning, you know, the horn detail that you see on that packaging.

[987] That was something that I spotted actually at Mark Anthony's house.

[988] You know Mark Anthony?

[989] Oh, yeah.

[990] Very sexy Miami native.

[991] Yeah, we're at Mark Anthony's house in Miami and he had this incredible sort of sculpture, if you like.

[992] And that was actually what inspired the horn package.

[993] on the packaging.

[994] So for me, it's about being really, really involved in the product speaking for itself.

[995] With skeptics when they say, oh, that's outrageous, that's too much money.

[996] How could you spend money on that?

[997] People say it's just clothes.

[998] What would you say to that?

[999] I would say that if you invest in key pieces in your wardrobe, that they're going to last.

[1000] You know, it's not something you're just going to wear and then you're going to throw out, you know, those trousers that you were talking about, those row trousers that you bought that are expensive.

[1001] You're going to really wear those trousers as opposed to fast fashion there's a lot nobody needs that much stuff so you might have spent a lot of money on a pair of trousers but those trousers are going to last you here's my thing people go out and they make money and they're allowed to spend the money on whatever the fuck they want and then when they spend that money people are employed making those products and it drives the economy so I'm not sure what they're mad about they would I guess feel safest if you didn't spend any dollars that you made and you died and it all just sat in a box and why'd you even make it to begin with?

[1002] But they would say you should be giving half of that money to charity or something.

[1003] I'm just, obviously, I don't think this because I'm buying it all.

[1004] It might be in your head.

[1005] Is it in your head?

[1006] That's another thing is I think these things too, but they might just be in my head.

[1007] Has anyone actually said to you, Monica, why are you spending the money on those pants?

[1008] Or is it more in your mind?

[1009] Or is it the voice of your parents maybe?

[1010] So I see sometimes on Instagram, but those are people who are just jealous.

[1011] They want to be able to buy the shit.

[1012] It's also where you're producing, where you're manufacturing.

[1013] Do you know what I mean?

[1014] It's those kind of details that need to be taken to consideration as well.

[1015] But what I love about my brand is I really do feel that we have an accessible luxury entry price point as well.

[1016] It's not all about just creating really expensive stuff.

[1017] It's about having an accessible price point as well.

[1018] Yeah.

[1019] You're trying to make the best.

[1020] Yeah, exactly.

[1021] Yeah.

[1022] I'm trying to make a product that's accessible to all Americans.

[1023] We have different agendas.

[1024] Yeah.

[1025] No, it's true.

[1026] And there's a slot in the market for me. to give diaper products to every person in American.

[1027] There's a slot for you to sell high -end skincare.

[1028] Bob's your fucking uncle.

[1029] That's how this economy works.

[1030] It's tiered.

[1031] And I do want to add, because I, for like a second, and I might revisit it, but I was like, oh, I might want to start this t -shirt company.

[1032] So I talked to this person who makes T -shirts, basically, and he was like, okay, so what fabric?

[1033] And I was like, oh, I guess like, cotton.

[1034] You know, I have no idea.

[1035] And he's like, no, but like, what blend and how much of this?

[1036] And how do you want the seams?

[1037] And how do you want the, I was like, oh, my God, it all of a sudden became so overwhelming.

[1038] And I was like, oh, there's so much to this.

[1039] And yeah, where will you manufacture it?

[1040] And it starts becoming obvious that there's a talent that the layperson isn't recognizing, the details, the French seam that makes it come together so beautifully.

[1041] There's a lot that goes on.

[1042] It's not even just a creative process where a lot goes on that would surprise people.

[1043] You know, I used to think if you've got a good product, then that's all that you need.

[1044] it will be successful.

[1045] And then you realize, you know what, there's a whole army of people that it takes to make something successful.

[1046] It doesn't just stop with a creative.

[1047] Well, you experienced that with your clothing line, right?

[1048] It was like hugely successful, but the business itself maybe hadn't been set up with the same attention to detail that the clothes were.

[1049] Yeah.

[1050] I rely on a huge finance team and a logistics team and we sometimes call it the unsexy stuff.

[1051] But those people are as important as the people working in the design team.

[1052] on the atelier.

[1053] It's about everybody being aligning.

[1054] Yeah.

[1055] Okay, I'm transitioning and I can relate deeply.

[1056] Did you have a period where you hated being asked about David in interviews?

[1057] Are you now at a period where you've embraced it?

[1058] What is your 22 -year journey with getting onto a talk show and having to talk about your husband for a good chunk of it?

[1059] What is your feelings on that?

[1060] I am always happy to talk about David.

[1061] It's never been a problem for me, really.

[1062] Okay.

[1063] I started off hating it.

[1064] Like, oh, they're only interested in her.

[1065] Like, I'm just a vessel to tell stories about Kristen.

[1066] Then I started noticing, oh, when she's on shit, all they do is ask her about me. They almost like they don't want to talk to you about you.

[1067] Like, I'm sure David's on shit.

[1068] They just talk to him about you.

[1069] It's once I kind of recognized that.

[1070] And then now, 15 years later for me, I'm like, yeah, ask me about her.

[1071] I got nothing going on.

[1072] Like, I'm happy to fill some time with whatever thing you figured out about Kristen, I can talk.

[1073] about for five minutes.

[1074] I think the only time when it gets frustrated, if you're on like a TV and you obviously have limited amount of time and then all they want to do is talk about my husband's tattoos, I've no problem talking about his tattoos.

[1075] I love his tattoos, but I'm there to talk about eyeliners.

[1076] Yeah.

[1077] You know what I mean?

[1078] It's like at least let me talk a little bit about the eyeliner and not just how many tattoos has he got on his left on.

[1079] Yes.

[1080] It's not that I ever have a problem talking about him.

[1081] I love talking about him.

[1082] Okay, now here's another thing I think we share in common.

[1083] Maybe you'll be uncomfortable talking about it.

[1084] English.

[1085] I'm imagining you will be.

[1086] So for the bulk of the 15 years, Kristen and I have been together, she was the bigger breadwinner, which as a male came with all these complicated feelings I'm embarrassed to have had.

[1087] I think of myself as being more evolved than that, but I was not.

[1088] It was hard on my ego to not be earning the most in the relationship.

[1089] And then that flipped.

[1090] And that has happened in your relationship as well.

[1091] I'm curious what your experience in that same dynamic was.

[1092] Did you care?

[1093] Are you proud?

[1094] We're pretty equal.

[1095] You know, when we first met, I was doing very well in the Spice Girls.

[1096] And David wasn't playing for the first team at that time.

[1097] You know, he was just breaking into the first team.

[1098] But there's never really been an issue for the two of us.

[1099] We've always shared everything that we have.

[1100] We're very equal at home as well.

[1101] I'm disappointed.

[1102] I wish you were struggled a little bit.

[1103] Yeah.

[1104] What did you wish I struggled with?

[1105] Well, minimally, I don't know if maybe Gender -wise, it's easier to be the wife and not earning as much.

[1106] That's my guess from dudes that I know that have been in this situation.

[1107] But then conversely, as someone who was girl power in Spice Girls, the moment you find out, oh, no, I'm kind of the big cat right now, I was hoping that'd feel like a feather in your cap.

[1108] I don't know.

[1109] Listen, I think that we both feel that when the other one is successful, that's good for both of us.

[1110] I want David to be the best version of himself.

[1111] I want him to be as successful as he can be.

[1112] I want him to feel amazing.

[1113] Yeah.

[1114] I would never, ever be envious or jealous at all.

[1115] I'm very, very happy for him to be happy.

[1116] Well, one time I know you said that it was up until fairly recently that your kids acknowledged that you were your own.

[1117] Like, it was all about David and soccer and he's the guy.

[1118] And then they were like, oh, right, no, mom's cool.

[1119] Like, she has this whole empire going on too.

[1120] And that might bother me if I was.

[1121] You'd be like, I'm bigger.

[1122] Pay attention to me. Do you know what?

[1123] I just think we've always been so supportive of each other.

[1124] And no, never been an issue.

[1125] Yeah.

[1126] That's a huge ingredient in the 22 years.

[1127] And as I've just painted a bad picture of myself, I will say, it's not probably as bad as I just detailed for you.

[1128] You know what?

[1129] I think as individuals, we're strong, but I truly believe that together actually we're even stronger.

[1130] That's how we've always seen it, the two of us.

[1131] Same.

[1132] We're much greater than the sum of our parts, Kristen and I. Wait, how did you guys meet?

[1133] Is that like the story everyone knows?

[1134] Spice Girls stopped by a football club.

[1135] They were doing a photo shoot.

[1136] Oh, really?

[1137] They kind of eyed each other.

[1138] No, no, they eyed each other.

[1139] And then there was a second one three months later.

[1140] And Victoria was wearing his team jersey.

[1141] Oh.

[1142] No, but I was not.

[1143] But I love the idea of it.

[1144] Oh, fuck.

[1145] Okay.

[1146] Okay.

[1147] You should both come to a game in Miami.

[1148] Do you like soccer?

[1149] I love everything live.

[1150] So let me say that.

[1151] So like, I don't want to hockey on TV.

[1152] I don't watch baseball on TV.

[1153] I love going live to both of those sports.

[1154] I think once you're there, it's an infectious environment now.

[1155] It's great.

[1156] You should come to a game, honestly.

[1157] It's a lot of fun.

[1158] The fans are amazing.

[1159] They bring drums and they sing, and it's a really, really great atmosphere.

[1160] It's so much fun.

[1161] Me and the kids love to go and watch the games.

[1162] I'd rather go to your fashion show.

[1163] Well, you can do both.

[1164] You can come to the fashion show and then we can go to a game.

[1165] Love it.

[1166] Just of both worlds, you see.

[1167] Something for everybody.

[1168] Could you open a sandwich shop up that we could stop at?

[1169] I like to get a Cubano with pastrami, maybe.

[1170] Okay, here's my last question.

[1171] Fucking A, were you surrounded by boys?

[1172] So I have to imagine, I know dudes that are on professional sports teams.

[1173] They're so boyy.

[1174] It's crazy.

[1175] You're just with boys nonstop in a club.

[1176] It's boys, boys, boys, boys.

[1177] I think it's very attractive to some women and other women and be like, ooh, too much boys.

[1178] then you had three boys in a row.

[1179] I'm in that situation.

[1180] I am powerful wife, two little girls, sister works at the house.

[1181] My fucking partner is a woman.

[1182] There are times where I'm like, who, estrogen is peeking around here.

[1183] They're all synced up.

[1184] Do you love boys?

[1185] Was it tolerable?

[1186] Do you get a bang out of it?

[1187] Or were you just so fucking grateful to get a girl at the end?

[1188] I mean, I felt very, very lucky to have a little girl.

[1189] You know, I feel blessed to have experienced both.

[1190] being a mother to boys and also a girl.

[1191] But, you know, four is a lot of kids.

[1192] It's less about parenting and more about crowd control.

[1193] It is crowd control when you have so many children.

[1194] It's too many, I'd argue.

[1195] Too too many.

[1196] It's a lot, but they're all amazing.

[1197] And the boys are so good with their little sister.

[1198] They are so good with her.

[1199] They really are.

[1200] So it's lovely to see.

[1201] It's nice.

[1202] Imagine having three big brothers.

[1203] Yeah, I wish.

[1204] Did you have a moment, like, 12 years ago, before she arrived, where you'd be at your house and you're like, I need a girl's weekend now, and I need it for four days.

[1205] Well, you know, I'm very close to my sister, and my sister has three girls and a boy.

[1206] Okay.

[1207] So I spent a lot of time with my sister and my nieces, but it was lovely to have a little girl, I have to say.

[1208] I got to imagine your laundry room was a fucking mess.

[1209] Just a mess.

[1210] Was your laundry room just the bane of your existence?

[1211] He'd walked by it.

[1212] Well, can you imagine all the football boots and football socks and smelly football shirts?

[1213] And that's just David.

[1214] Exactly.

[1215] It was a lot.

[1216] Okay.

[1217] Well, Victoria, this has been a blast.

[1218] Congratulations on Victoria Beckham Beauty.

[1219] You can go to Victoriabeckhambeauty .com and look at all these products that made Monica float in on an ethereal cloud of moisturization.

[1220] and elegance.

[1221] And congratulations on Paris.

[1222] That's amazing.

[1223] Thank you very much.

[1224] I hope we bump into each other in Miami because we'll both be like, let it all hang out in Miami.

[1225] Like the four of us might even swing.

[1226] I'm just going to put that out there.

[1227] Oh, my God.

[1228] But this conversation really took her turn.

[1229] Hey, listen, I've got to tell you, now I want to talk about your wife.

[1230] Okay, so me and Harper, big, big fans are Frozen.

[1231] And I took courtesy the musical in the West End.

[1232] And she's going through that stage where she's like, I'm 11.

[1233] now too big for Frozen, because obviously that film was on heavy rotation.

[1234] You can imagine when she was really little.

[1235] So we go to watch the musical.

[1236] She didn't want to go because she thought she was too grown up.

[1237] When they sang that song, let me tell you, we both stood up in the middle of the theatre and burst out crying.

[1238] We were so emotional.

[1239] And the actress, she whipped off her rags and she's there in like full on be jazzled, whatever it was.

[1240] And we just stopped.

[1241] It was such a moment.

[1242] Oh, that's wonderful.

[1243] That's wonderful.

[1244] I think a lot of people, those songs just destroyed their lives for three years.

[1245] And we were saved by that.

[1246] Again, because it was their mom, they weren't as interested.

[1247] But I had the four years of her making the movie singing the songs nonstop.

[1248] So I do think somehow it all came out in the wash that I lived with those songs for four years, as most parents lived with them.

[1249] It's fantastic.

[1250] It is.

[1251] That's her spice girls.

[1252] Yeah.

[1253] Two biggest grossing cartoons of all time.

[1254] I mean, it's crazy.

[1255] Yeah, no, it's amazing.

[1256] Big, big fans of both of you.

[1257] So maybe you guys will invite her into the mix and I'll be asked to leave.

[1258] That's what it sounded like.

[1259] I pitched swinging and you're like, here's the story, we love Frozen.

[1260] So why don't you go get us some sandwiches and she's free to stay?

[1261] I think that's what I heard.

[1262] And I accept it.

[1263] Oh, dear.

[1264] Victoria Beckham, thank you so much for being on the show and I hope everybody goes to Victoria Beckhambeauty .com to look at the beautiful array of luxurious skin care products.

[1265] Thank you so much.

[1266] It's been fun.

[1267] I hope you listen to Guilty when we hang up.

[1268] Oh, yeah.

[1269] Yeah, listen, we don't swing, by the way.

[1270] I just want to clear that up, people.

[1271] Yeah, we don't either, but life is long.

[1272] Yeah, right.

[1273] I've heard those rumors, Dax.

[1274] Bye.

[1275] Bye.

[1276] All right, take care.

[1277] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1278] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1279] Hi.

[1280] Hi.

[1281] We have something really fun today.

[1282] First of all, there are no facts.

[1283] I mean, there are.

[1284] Yeah.

[1285] But we're not going to do them.

[1286] Okay, great.

[1287] Because we had a really fun opportunity.

[1288] Yes.

[1289] Yes.

[1290] To speak with Nev Campbell about the infamous, I drank my breakfast story from, I guess, 1997 or something.

[1291] Yeah.

[1292] 98 we get some clarity some closure so we're going to hop into that yeah we're going to hop into nev campbell joining us in the attic for the fact check to discuss the aforementioned story thanks for coming this is wobby this is fun we this is a first yeah this is a first this is proprietary this is novel yeah um really quick you and i both so it's gloomy in l. which is rare.

[1293] Very rare.

[1294] And I love it.

[1295] But we're from the same climate, you and I. I'm from Toronto, yeah.

[1296] And I'm from Detroit.

[1297] Yeah, very close.

[1298] Did you ever smoke cigarettes?

[1299] Of course.

[1300] Yes.

[1301] So it's a cold weather and cigarettes.

[1302] Oh, Link.

[1303] This is prime cigarette smoking weather right here.

[1304] A coffee in your car with the window down and the cigarette and the coffee.

[1305] Wow.

[1306] But then doesn't it make you want to smoke a cigarette?

[1307] And then you can't and then that's upsetting?

[1308] It just makes me feel.

[1309] nostalgic.

[1310] Yeah, exactly.

[1311] I don't think I want the cigarette.

[1312] Did you have to quit a bunch of times?

[1313] Yeah.

[1314] Me too.

[1315] And then I finally read that book, Easy Way to Stop Smoking.

[1316] Everyone, that works for people.

[1317] That's by the hypnotists that normally hypnotizes people.

[1318] Yes.

[1319] And I think he passed away from lung cancer.

[1320] No. No, no, no. That's too ironic.

[1321] But I think I'm right about that.

[1322] But it does work.

[1323] I think because it allows you to smoke, you have to smoke for the entire book.

[1324] Oh.

[1325] You can't stop smoking during the book.

[1326] So that kind of helps.

[1327] Interesting.

[1328] And then, yeah, by the end, you just stop.

[1329] You just put it down and you stop.

[1330] And how long ago was that?

[1331] Oh, gosh, 19 years ago.

[1332] Okay, I'm on 17 years.

[1333] Okay.

[1334] No cigarettes.

[1335] Yeah.

[1336] And I'd quit a bunch of times.

[1337] And generally I would quit and then I would see a movie and I'd see someone smoking it.

[1338] I'd be like, oh, my God, looks so cool.

[1339] It looks so great.

[1340] Something clicked this time where I was like, oh my goodness, one should not put smoke in their lungs.

[1341] It's very tiny and delicate in there.

[1342] And then I remember watching something and going like, oh, stop.

[1343] You're putting too much smoke in those little tiny lung sacks.

[1344] I know.

[1345] I think God that happened.

[1346] So, yeah, now it seems completely unappealing.

[1347] Oh, I think about how much I must have stunk.

[1348] Oh.

[1349] Like my clothes, my closet.

[1350] I smoked in my car.

[1351] Well, you said windows down.

[1352] I smoked my windows up.

[1353] Good for you.

[1354] Yeah.

[1355] Yeah.

[1356] Okay.

[1357] But here's a good question.

[1358] It's all over the headlines tomorrow.

[1359] what there's a pill you can take and somehow magically you can bang darts all day long and there's no health concern oh you're saying hypothetically oh i thought you're saying how do you know this is coming out tomorrow you're amazing i've got so much so many shares of this company and you should too no but if you read tomorrow morning oh my god they've figured out you just take this pill and you can smoke as many as you'd like and it's going to have no impact on your health and not stay either.

[1360] No, I think it'll still.

[1361] This is no way around that.

[1362] Are you tempted at that point?

[1363] If there's zero health...

[1364] I'll tell you, I was in Venice, Italy a couple of weeks ago.

[1365] And smoking looked really attractive there.

[1366] Yeah.

[1367] The Parisians can do it too.

[1368] Oh, man, they dress so well.

[1369] They sit in their squares and they have their cafe.

[1370] They look healthy as hell.

[1371] I know.

[1372] Yeah.

[1373] But I wasn't one of those smokers who was, controls but like I couldn't have three a day like my my brother Christian was always he even still could have a cigarette once in a while and put him down and then maybe not smoke for a few weeks and then you know be at a bonfire and everyone's around in Canada having a cigarette yeah and he can do it I can't I can never have that one me either that's the great line I was like pack and a half a day wow I was a pro smoker I was committed I don't think I maybe was right I think we would have you know match me yeah exactly what was your brand oh um Well, originally in Canada, Des Moiree.

[1374] Oh, wow, elegant.

[1375] Sophisticated.

[1376] Awful.

[1377] And they were so expensive in Canada, too.

[1378] Nine bucks.

[1379] And it would say on there, like, there'd be pictures of.

[1380] Oh, you have the pictures of people dying and babies and long.

[1381] Tumorous girls on people.

[1382] It was horrific.

[1383] I still did it, though.

[1384] Yeah, me too.

[1385] When I'd be up in Canada, I'm like, well, this is inconvenient, but let's go.

[1386] Let's get into this sack.

[1387] So you're from Detroit.

[1388] I'm from Detroit.

[1389] And we used to vacation in Toronto.

[1390] I have a question.

[1391] Yeah.

[1392] When you went to Toronto, did you imagine running into Nev?

[1393] This is pre -my -Nev obsession.

[1394] Oh, I don't think I would have been.

[1395] Yeah.

[1396] Nev comes on the scene for me in 94.

[1397] I'm one year out of high school.

[1398] That's when party of five debuts, right?

[1399] Ninety -four?

[1400] Yep, yep.

[1401] Although I got to be honest.

[1402] Maybe a year earlier.

[1403] Okay, great.

[1404] So I had.

[1405] Yeah, earlier than that, 94 was friends.

[1406] Guys, 94's right.

[1407] We're having the same moment that I had earlier, which was, I'm certain I was pining for you on my high school bed.

[1408] I wasn't.

[1409] I was a full -grown adult already living on my, like, it's really, I was like, whoa, I have misfiled this whole experience.

[1410] And maybe that actually bolsters my claim because I was a full -blown adult.

[1411] I thought you were like 10.

[1412] No. First of all, I don't do the math.

[1413] I just imagine it.

[1414] Yeah, you're not in the math.

[1415] But I do, okay.

[1416] Oh, wow, you were a grown adult.

[1417] The level of love sickness I had.

[1418] Oh.

[1419] Watching party of five.

[1420] I can't explain.

[1421] I mean, what I guess I wanted it to know first was...

[1422] You didn't know how much I stank, though.

[1423] I would have loved it.

[1424] I thought, oh, this girl's blast and d 'orels.

[1425] What were you on, Domari's?

[1426] What were they called?

[1427] Tomorriere.

[1428] This is a classy woman from Toronto.

[1429] But did you have anyone in your late teens, early 20s that made you physically ill?

[1430] Because you love them from afar.

[1431] I just want to know if we can at least relate on the sensation.

[1432] first.

[1433] Eighteen's, early 20s.

[1434] You go into high school, I guess.

[1435] Yeah, I'm trying to think.

[1436] Or even 10.

[1437] I mean, when I was 10, it was Michael Jackson.

[1438] I mean, to be honest, Michael Jackson was my crush.

[1439] Yeah, he was my first concert.

[1440] Oh, cool.

[1441] Yeah, when I was 10th birthday I got.

[1442] My dad took me. It was at exhibition stadium in Toronto in the nosebleeds outside in an outdoor stadium in the winter.

[1443] So I was covered in blankets and I was way at the back and I had binoculars.

[1444] And you can't even see him, right?

[1445] Couldn't see him.

[1446] No. I think I might have seen a sparkly glove.

[1447] Yeah.

[1448] Did you get a T -shirt?

[1449] No. I would have loved one, but dad, you know, he splurged already.

[1450] That's so sweet.

[1451] Any kind of teen beady, any of the Hames or not the Hames, the Corrie's.

[1452] No, Malcolm Jamal Werner.

[1453] Oh, wait, is he from a different world?

[1454] He was Theo.

[1455] Theo.

[1456] Because, you know, our Thursday night was, I think, Night Court, Cheers.

[1457] and Cosby show.

[1458] What a lineup.

[1459] He was hot, yeah.

[1460] But what level of like, you thought he was cute or?

[1461] I thought he was cute.

[1462] You didn't have any fantasies.

[1463] About Malcolm.

[1464] Anyone.

[1465] I'm trying to.

[1466] You're so healthy, I guess.

[1467] You must have good self -esteem or something.

[1468] I was just so busy dancing.

[1469] Now that I believe.

[1470] I was so, like, yeah.

[1471] Yeah, your whole life was ballet.

[1472] I might, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1473] your injuries took you to acting, right?

[1474] Yep.

[1475] Right.

[1476] Exactly, yeah.

[1477] I started doing point at 9, and I was at the National Valley School, and that what they would tell us to do to close the blisters quickly so that you could build your calluses was pour lemon on them at night.

[1478] They said, put paper towel on your tongue so you don't bite your tongue and pour lemon on it.

[1479] And I think about that.

[1480] And now I'm like, yeah, that's what I was talking.

[1481] Wait.

[1482] At 9.

[1483] Yeah, it's really best.

[1484] And then dance on them the next day, so they open up again and then close them.

[1485] And then dance on them and then bleed.

[1486] It's really twisted.

[1487] And when I think about it, I'm residents when I lived there.

[1488] In order to open our hips up, I would lay encyclopedias on, I would lie on my back in the splits and then lay encyclopedias on both my feet to get the way to further break apart.

[1489] Hence the amount, I mean, I was just telling your wife, I had spine surgery a few years ago.

[1490] Oh, my gosh.

[1491] I shouldn't have spine surgery at this age, but that's what happens.

[1492] That's what happens.

[1493] Well, A, does it make every other pursuit in life seem kind of easy?

[1494] By comparison Well, certainly not that dangerous Or trying physically trying Painful and mentally painful Yeah, certainly, yeah Taught me discipline I would imagine Yeah, great discipline it would teach you Yeah Would you want it for your kids?

[1495] Our son Rainer, our four -year -old We're going to his ballet recital on Saturday Oh my God, cute And all he does is like Run around He likes to fall on the floor That's his favorite thing to do a ballet It's a great move.

[1496] It's not quite as serious.

[1497] I don't know if that's as a celebrated modern ballet as it should be.

[1498] The pratfall.

[1499] I know.

[1500] Listen, if either of our children want to do it and they say this is something I have to do, then I'm not going to.

[1501] Well, it makes sense that Michael Jackson then, because if you were such an intense dancer, yeah.

[1502] That's hot because he's the best at that.

[1503] Do you have recurring dreams that involve somehow dance when you're younger or you're not prepared?

[1504] I sometimes.

[1505] my first job was Phantom of the Opera in Toronto and I did two years of that I think it was 800 shows and I remember for the first few months after I would find myself singing songs and then I'd look at the time it would be to the minute the time that I was supposed to be singing that song Oh really?

[1506] And I sometimes now still have dreams where I'm on stage doing certain numbers in Phantom but I can't quite remember the steps and I've gone back and some of the dancers are there and some of the cast I don't know.

[1507] And I'm having that kind of a, I don't remember the number.

[1508] Yeah.

[1509] I get that sometimes.

[1510] Okay.

[1511] So we're not going to be able to relate on the sickness of the stomach.

[1512] Now, Monica luckily knows exactly where I'm at because her level of like physical discomfort because she loved Matt and Ben so much.

[1513] Okay.

[1514] Yeah.

[1515] Like we see each other.

[1516] We know.

[1517] It's devastating.

[1518] It's immobilizing.

[1519] Let me just say the episode of party of five would end.

[1520] Yeah.

[1521] And I would for about an hour and a half or two be kind of devastated.

[1522] Like, I can't believe I'm not going to be with that girl.

[1523] Like that, it's unacceptable.

[1524] It was heartbreaking.

[1525] Certainly, I'm not the only guy in America in 1994 that's having this sensation.

[1526] Right.

[1527] It's so weird to me to think about that.

[1528] Of course it is.

[1529] And that's kind of my question is I imagine it's absolutely too abstract.

[1530] to actually maybe understand.

[1531] I feel disconnected from it, yeah.

[1532] Right.

[1533] But at the same time, I'm wondering, you must be bumping into other Dax Shepherds in 194 where you're like, oh, this person, I can see, this person has like a relationship with me in their head.

[1534] That I know nothing about.

[1535] That you know nothing about.

[1536] It's so strange.

[1537] Were you at least like taking in that bizarre energy as you move through the world once that show was on?

[1538] Like, oh, this is a very weird experience.

[1539] Yeah.

[1540] Absolutely, absolutely.

[1541] People just behave really weird around you.

[1542] Like, I know you said you approached me at the craft table.

[1543] We're like, what are you having for breakfast?

[1544] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1545] Yeah, lots of those.

[1546] Lots of people being just really awkward and weird.

[1547] Overwhelmed by your presence.

[1548] Yeah.

[1549] And it used to bother me because...

[1550] It feels unsafe, right?

[1551] Not even unsafe, just like, come on, can I just, I want to, I actually would love to get to know you, but now I can't because there's this thing that's between us that you've created this story in your head and it's not me. So I'm not going to get to know you because inevitably it's about wanting to just connect with people, right?

[1552] Yeah.

[1553] Yeah.

[1554] So that used to, that used to depress me a little bit, that sort of disconnect or that's sort of like a wall between people sometimes.

[1555] I bet as a woman, though, it is, because we had Matt on and we expressed.

[1556] How is that for you?

[1557] Oh my God.

[1558] Were you flipping out?

[1559] Yeah, I played it pretty cool.

[1560] Did you?

[1561] But he hugged her and kissed her forehead.

[1562] We have a, hold on.

[1563] I didn't audition with Matt once.

[1564] Tell me about it.

[1565] It was for, what was the gambling one?

[1566] Oh, rounders.

[1567] And actually, I, oh, look at this.

[1568] Yeah, that's our, my cut out.

[1569] There's a one.

[1570] This isn't even the good one.

[1571] He's kissing her forehead.

[1572] It's at my house, the one with her face.

[1573] Oh, my God, look at you.

[1574] You're adorable.

[1575] That's baby mom.

[1576] Oh, I love that.

[1577] And she got to meet him.

[1578] Yeah.

[1579] I had met him a few times, and then I was brought in for Rounders, and it was after I had done the first screen.

[1580] And Harvey asked me to go in an audition.

[1581] Harvey.

[1582] Oh, boy.

[1583] We might need to start that.

[1584] Oh, there's a whole story.

[1585] And I went and I did the audition, and then I was, and Matt's great.

[1586] I mean, he's such a nice guy.

[1587] Isn't he such a nice guy?

[1588] Like, the most down to earth.

[1589] Frustrating.

[1590] I could see him.

[1591] I could see you guys as a couple.

[1592] He'd be a great couple.

[1593] He was a smoker too.

[1594] Was he?

[1595] Were we all smokers at that time?

[1596] I think maybe, yeah.

[1597] I guess it's not that exclusive.

[1598] It was like we had to be.

[1599] Oh, my God.

[1600] And he was super nice and we had a good audition.

[1601] And then I got the role.

[1602] And then they wouldn't give it to me unless I signed my contract for, oh, this was after your screen.

[1603] to, unless I signed Scream 3 for them for the same amount of money.

[1604] Oh, they were leveraging the sequel of that.

[1605] And I said, how could you do that?

[1606] How dare you?

[1607] That is so not cool.

[1608] So I had it out with Harvey on the phone and told him off.

[1609] Oh, you did?

[1610] I did.

[1611] Well, because he tried to call me all weekend, because it was supposed to shoot the next following weekend.

[1612] I was shooting Party of Five in Los Angeles.

[1613] It required me flying to New York to do rounders.

[1614] And I had, you know, stood my ground.

[1615] I said, this is really not okay.

[1616] The one has nothing to do with the other.

[1617] He tried to call me, got my number.

[1618] This is something he was known for, called me all weekend long.

[1619] My agents were like, don't answer the phone.

[1620] I didn't answer the phone.

[1621] And on Monday morning when I was supposed to be on set in New York, where I had to take the job, I called him back, and I said, this is why I'm not on set right now.

[1622] Good for, I love this.

[1623] And I said, you know, this should not have been about you trying to navigate or manipulate me into another contract.

[1624] We should have been having discussions about script.

[1625] The scenes actually need a rewrite.

[1626] That should have been the conversation.

[1627] How do we make my character look different than Julia Salinger this week?

[1628] Those should have been the conversations, not how can you save another penny?

[1629] And goes, Neb, Neb, you and Gweny are the only people who have ever stood up to me. I admire you, admire you.

[1630] Don't worry, don't worry about it.

[1631] And then never gave me a job again.

[1632] Yeah, don't worry about it.

[1633] So at that time, Mirmac's own dimension, which was putting out screen.

[1634] Which was scream, yeah.

[1635] And goodwill hunting.

[1636] Ding, ding.

[1637] So he was kind of at the height of his powers at that moment.

[1638] Yes, and I had done Studio 54 for them.

[1639] And then, yeah, anyway, so that's that.

[1640] Not a news story, Reed Harvey.

[1641] I have to imagine, though, he knows he's got no, there's no business with you.

[1642] No. You know, I feel lucky that I knew they wanted me to do another scream, that I had too much value for them.

[1643] Yeah, you had the leverage, not Harvey.

[1644] Not to assume anything But I feel like that never occurred to me Because they wanted something else from me Yes You know what I mean?

[1645] And the thing you would want them to want out of you actually Yes Yeah, yeah But you also you Yeah this does get This is a hard conversation to have But I do think people in that position Who use their power They know who is vulnerable Yes, they're really good at finding marks that's almost their signature skill set is identifying people who are vulnerable to that type which makes it of course all the most more disgusting and evil yes yeah and that whole thing that went down with rose was during the first scream that was all it was oh my god yeah but also ew like now knowing that sentence like no one says no is has a different I know yeah okay Right.

[1646] So this love that just you're not going to, you can't relate and that's fine.

[1647] That's great.

[1648] But painful, but painful.

[1649] Like really upsetting, really painful.

[1650] Yeah.

[1651] And then Katsu, I've now moved to Los Angeles.

[1652] I am trying to get work.

[1653] My friend Nate Tuck is producing a movie.

[1654] And I'm going to throw up at a party in it.

[1655] So exciting.

[1656] Maybe they'll be a line for me. Maybe not.

[1657] There wasn't.

[1658] Right.

[1659] Right.

[1660] But who knows?

[1661] That throw up goes well.

[1662] I might have a line.

[1663] and somehow throwing up at that party got me at a totally different scene and it was at Jones Hollywood okay might be the only time I've still ever been in there and it was an all night shoot and as you heard in this recalling I just can't believe you're there we'd have to digress for one second about Matthew Lillard because I then went on to do a movie with Matthew and become really good friends with him and I love him he's great I remember him visiting you on set that day and he brought his chess board oh yeah he was big into chess Talk about mixed messages And I want to know what attracted you to Matt Because you meet him and you're like This guy's huge Like he's overweight He's very tall Physical athletic He's very cute and very charming And he was a mime in high school Yes he was That's right And he loves Dungeons and Dragons And he loves musical theater And you're like What is this little unicorn And then in high school His mime name was Tam Matt backwards Oh yeah I did not know And then he went to the school fair in a Lycra outfit and was performing his mind.

[1664] I mean, I love him so much.

[1665] But I definitely remember there was a great moment.

[1666] And maybe you've had this.

[1667] Sometimes you don't get a role and someone else takes it.

[1668] And then other times you're like, oh, I get it.

[1669] Good thing they went with that person.

[1670] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1671] Wow, they're pretty great.

[1672] Well, I had that moment because my adversary shows up, your boyfriend.

[1673] And I'm scoping them out.

[1674] I've never seen him in real life, and I'm overwhelmed by the physicality.

[1675] And I'm overwhelmed with how cutie is in their life.

[1676] And then he's got a cool beanie on.

[1677] He might have even been wearing glasses.

[1678] I'm like, oh, he's intelligent.

[1679] I'm falling more in love with him, I think.

[1680] At this moment, it starts transferring.

[1681] He's over me. And they whips this fucking chess board out.

[1682] And he's playing random crew members chess.

[1683] And I'm like, this is a man of the people.

[1684] It almost makes me more in love with you.

[1685] I'm like, she's got great taste.

[1686] This guy is a total catch.

[1687] I guess now I didn't even.

[1688] occurred to me. You must have met on scream.

[1689] We've met on Scream.

[1690] Did you just put that together?

[1691] Literally just put that.

[1692] I'm thinking, where do they mean each other?

[1693] Yeah.

[1694] But those are all the things that you found charming about him too.

[1695] Yeah.

[1696] He's funny.

[1697] Yes.

[1698] He is so funny.

[1699] And he's just got a great outlook on life.

[1700] He's very, very positive.

[1701] Okay.

[1702] Then we get to the me and some of Nate's friends who are there visiting from his fraternity, maybe.

[1703] They've all decided.

[1704] They're not even aspiring actor.

[1705] I'm there, hopefully, to get a line at some point.

[1706] These guys are like in shoe sales.

[1707] One guy worked for Reebok, another guy with some accountant.

[1708] They're just there to be in the background.

[1709] So, of course, they're partying.

[1710] And then I find out about that.

[1711] Now I'm partying.

[1712] And then I saddle up next to you.

[1713] Again, there's no way you would remember this.

[1714] And I say, I'm going to be drinking my breakfast, which I think is so cool.

[1715] I mean, I can't believe I thought that was cool.

[1716] You need to put that on a T -shirt.

[1717] I'm drinking my breath.

[1718] So, of course, you don't remember that.

[1719] There's no way, right?

[1720] No, I, no. I mean, maybe I can make it up in my head and think I'm remembering it, but no. And we don't mean that.

[1721] I think what is, you know yourself enough to know what you would have thought of that.

[1722] So I think you can kind of reverse give me. I got to add one detail that you're not aware of.

[1723] Okay.

[1724] So I told that story in the podcast.

[1725] Yeah.

[1726] I heard it, and I thought it was really funny because it's so embarrassing.

[1727] And so I thought, oh, Neda liked to hear this story.

[1728] That was 22 years ago.

[1729] Right.

[1730] So I say to Nate, who I don't ever say, like, listen to the podcast.

[1731] I'm like, please listen to the fact check on this episode.

[1732] He writes me back, oh, my God.

[1733] I remember that night so well.

[1734] I remember being very nervous that Neville was on set and you were there.

[1735] Like, as a producer.

[1736] He was worried what you were going to do.

[1737] Yeah, he just, it was like, he knew as a bad.

[1738] potentially a bad combination that I was in love with you and he's trying to produce this low budget movie you're the big star he's nervous right and he knows I'm drinking with his friends that can't put his mind at ease but this is the big surprise for me he said you came over immediately after and said what you said to her and I remember thinking oh my God he's killing it men are so stupid yeah like the first The fact that that was read as good.

[1739] No, I know.

[1740] We're so stupid.

[1741] Oh, my gosh.

[1742] Especially at that age.

[1743] He might have been mistaking relief for killing it, though.

[1744] He might have just, the fact that I had talked to you and you weren't like, oh, my God, somebody get this guy out of here.

[1745] That might have been just, he might have been mistaking the relief of that.

[1746] Oh, my gosh.

[1747] Well, maybe his bar was so low.

[1748] That you got a little bit above that.

[1749] That could have been.

[1750] It's hard to know.

[1751] Yeah.

[1752] Okay.

[1753] So now you're here.

[1754] Yeah.

[1755] And what would you?

[1756] have thought of that.

[1757] That you were an idiot.

[1758] Yeah.

[1759] That's right.

[1760] That's right.

[1761] Totally unappealing as a partner.

[1762] Like, who wants someone's drunk at 7 a .m. at work?

[1763] Especially if you think that's going to be the line to win me over.

[1764] Yeah.

[1765] What a miss?

[1766] Sorry.

[1767] And I was probably exhausted.

[1768] I was probably shooting party of five as well as I. I feel like at that time of my life, I was always doing at least two jobs at once.

[1769] Wow.

[1770] And then here you have to deal with these bozos.

[1771] Yeah.

[1772] Yeah.

[1773] I mean, it's really unfair.

[1774] It's really unfair.

[1775] It is.

[1776] And I remember what car you drove.

[1777] Oh.

[1778] Was it the Porsche?

[1779] Yeah.

[1780] Okay.

[1781] So I'm super into cars.

[1782] You just pulled up and I'm like, I'm so into the fact that you drive a Cadillac.

[1783] No actresses are driving Cadillacs.

[1784] Oh, wow.

[1785] You picked, see, you picked a person who really, this is what I did too who you there's a world in which you could be with them like personality wise here's what I found out in this short interaction I could have been with her but she couldn't have been with me that's the most important thing to remember I'm just saying from the fantasy perspective the people you pick they're not just like oh they're so beautiful or they're so hot it wasn't that you were pretty you're very beautiful objectively You're very beautiful.

[1786] There was something in the scenes of the show where I'm like, I see her.

[1787] Of course, I don't.

[1788] Yeah.

[1789] But I'm like, I know who.

[1790] Yeah, it's crazy.

[1791] I could marry that person.

[1792] Oh, I would have been a second.

[1793] If you would have sent me a thing, oh, my God, just found out of you exist.

[1794] Would you want to get married next week?

[1795] Would have flown out here?

[1796] Like, no questions asked.

[1797] Really?

[1798] Wow.

[1799] That's how deep it was.

[1800] Wow.

[1801] Again, that might be a little scary.

[1802] I feel sorry for people who haven't experienced this.

[1803] I kind of do, too.

[1804] It's like really.

[1805] I feel sorry for you.

[1806] I'm so sorry, I feel like I must be wrong about that, though.

[1807] And I just can't, but I would remember, right?

[1808] I think so.

[1809] It's life alter.

[1810] I feel like I must have had, yeah.

[1811] I had a couple of them.

[1812] I transferred.

[1813] This may be.

[1814] This is bad.

[1815] Look, I had my chance with you.

[1816] It didn't work out.

[1817] And I met Lillard is like much better casting.

[1818] I see.

[1819] No competition.

[1820] And then it just kind of transitioned nicely into Natalie Portman.

[1821] Oh, yeah.

[1822] Yeah.

[1823] I mean, come on.

[1824] As a viewer.

[1825] I love Natalie Portman.

[1826] I loved her when she was a kid and I was a bit older.

[1827] And then we had the same publicist.

[1828] My publicist told me at the time when she was still young that she said she wanted to be me when she grew up.

[1829] This makes perfect sense.

[1830] Of course I went to her.

[1831] She probably doesn't even know who I am.

[1832] But when she was a kid, of course she does and does it.

[1833] You want to hear something surreal.

[1834] Yes.

[1835] And I've never told this before.

[1836] I met Prince Harry in London years back at a friend's birthday party.

[1837] And we had a little dance And he told me That he grew up with a poster of me on his wall No Wait, this isn't enormous I was like where He's hot Wait where did you have a poster In the queen's house Oh my God Also this is a huge ding ding ding Because Prince Harry sat right there We've had him on and he sat right there Isn't he nice?

[1838] He's a nice guy So nice Also What you can't get in photos from him, he's a force of nature physically as well.

[1839] He's like a big, really good -looking, strong, strapping, lad.

[1840] Were you single when this dance happened?

[1841] I was not.

[1842] I know.

[1843] And then I was even invited to a charity.

[1844] And then I was seeing someone, then I was with JJ.

[1845] Okay.

[1846] And then I was invited.

[1847] Yes, who I'm still with happily.

[1848] And I was invited to a charity event where it was a charity that was a charity that Harry was putting on and I brought JJ and then some older gentlemen came up to me and told me that I was being seated next to Harry and I was like oh and he was like he's requested and I was like okay at this big round table and I said well JJ's with me and they were like he'll sit across the table.

[1849] Talk about awkward right?

[1850] J .J. JJ's a Brit so he's like okay whatever I know I know how to do this game we'll do this dance and he had to sit on the other end of the table while I sat next stay here.

[1851] Oh my gosh.

[1852] Good for her.

[1853] Where was Markle?

[1854] Was she in the picture yet?

[1855] No. No. No, no, no. This was prior.

[1856] She's pretty new wish.

[1857] It was so funny.

[1858] Wait, I want to make another comparison.

[1859] Okay.

[1860] Because Lillard is kind of like you.

[1861] You guys are very similar.

[1862] He's from Brighton, Michigan originally.

[1863] Okay.

[1864] Both tall, both funny, but both very sweet.

[1865] And so I bet when you saw they were together, you were like, yeah, like, I'm I'm a poor man. I could be.

[1866] He is stunned double.

[1867] And that's how I feel about Matt's wife.

[1868] Oh, you do?

[1869] I'm kind of, well, she, she's, she's not white.

[1870] Okay, that's great.

[1871] So that's the main thing.

[1872] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1873] And I was like, oh.

[1874] Was she not white?

[1875] Matt's wife is.

[1876] No, Matt Damon's wife is.

[1877] Oh, I thought you were talking about Matt Lillard.

[1878] I'm sorry.

[1879] No, no, no. No, she's very white.

[1880] Matt Damon's wife is not white.

[1881] Oh, okay.

[1882] And so I thought, oh, see, like.

[1883] Like, it could have been me. It could have been.

[1884] So you had that too.

[1885] But I don't know what JJ, I don't know that I'm anything like JJ.

[1886] You're nothing like JJ.

[1887] Oh, I don't think.

[1888] Yeah, sorry.

[1889] What would we, how would we describe JJ?

[1890] I mean, British right there.

[1891] No, he's chatty.

[1892] He's a chatty, Kathy.

[1893] He likes to talk, which you do.

[1894] You guys will get along.

[1895] I think we might see you on the weekend, actually.

[1896] Yes, I think we're going to, yes.

[1897] I think we're going to gather.

[1898] Yes.

[1899] I think we're going to round to another opportunity.

[1900] Yes.

[1901] Can I relapse?

[1902] Oh, yeah.

[1903] Oh, my God.

[1904] So you can say that you drank your breakfast?

[1905] It does stop that whole routine, see if it goes better 20 years later.

[1906] J .J. is very bright.

[1907] Actually, you guys are similar.

[1908] He's very bright.

[1909] Okay.

[1910] He likes to chat.

[1911] Extrovert?

[1912] Extrovert.

[1913] Yes.

[1914] You're introvert?

[1915] Yes.

[1916] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1917] So you are attracted to extroverts.

[1918] Yeah.

[1919] Yeah.

[1920] Okay.

[1921] Well, again, that's enough for me to build.

[1922] It allows me to be quiet.

[1923] Yeah.

[1924] It gives me space.

[1925] I like being quiet.

[1926] How do you feel about being social in general?

[1927] Okay.

[1928] I mean, I like smaller groups.

[1929] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1930] I'm not a big group kind of person.

[1931] I like intimate relationships with my girlfriends.

[1932] And, you know, I do like one -on -one.

[1933] And I like to get real.

[1934] I would have gatherings at my house if I had a gathering.

[1935] And I am known to say good night to everybody and go to bed.

[1936] You and Kristen are identical.

[1937] Yes, she does.

[1938] Even crazy.

[1939] Tell me if this sounds ideal to you.

[1940] She'll invite our pot over Yes You won't see her for a while Right She's upstairs reading a book At a party she threw I secretly do that sometimes too Oh wow And how she explains that maybe you could relate Is she actually loves knowing That people are enjoying themselves I like to gather people And people I care about Because I know they're gonna have a lot To vibe on and enjoy one another And then I just get tired Yes And I want to go to bed It's energy drink training for you.

[1941] It is.

[1942] Yeah.

[1943] And for me, it's very, it's like the source of fuel.

[1944] And JJ's the same.

[1945] Yeah.

[1946] Well, this has been, I mean, heartbreaking for me, but something I already knew.

[1947] I'm so sorry.

[1948] I didn't disappoint.

[1949] No, I already knew.

[1950] I very much knew.

[1951] We needed to hear it from you.

[1952] We wouldn't be able to go out this weekend, though, with our partners.

[1953] It would be awkward.

[1954] Yeah.

[1955] Well, Deb, I want to thank you so much for indulging us.

[1956] No, this is fun.

[1957] It was really fun.

[1958] You'll have to come back the next time.

[1959] When you're on a new show on ABC?

[1960] I am not.

[1961] You're not.

[1962] Never mind.

[1963] Strike that from the record.

[1964] I am on the Lincoln lawyer at the moment.

[1965] Just I did the first season.

[1966] I'm doing a bit on the second season and then I'm exiting.

[1967] And then I did a pilot for ABC, but it did not get picked up.

[1968] It had some issues.

[1969] Okay.

[1970] Okay.

[1971] So that is one question that I do want to ask you now before you go.

[1972] You just already said it.

[1973] You have some weird confidence that you would tell Harvey like, no. Yeah.

[1974] And then you had the confidence to leave party of five.

[1975] Uh -huh, yes.

[1976] You have what I can only guess is a bizarrely healthy relationship with the job, which I find to be very, very rare.

[1977] Interesting.

[1978] Do you think you have a healthy relationship with the job?

[1979] I think I have the relationship that I have, whether it's healthy or not.

[1980] I'm not sure.

[1981] I think I just know what I can take and what I can't take.

[1982] and I know that if I'm a part of something that I'm not feeling creatively fed by or that I'm not growing with or that I'm not finding is to me in my opinion good enough I really struggle to be a part of it you know I want to make good work I want to make good project I want to watch good things so I want to bring good things to people and I also know that I'm just not good if the writing's not good like I'm just I'm not going to do a good job if I don't believe in what I'm doing.

[1983] Were you empowered a lot on Party of Five?

[1984] Do you think it starts with a good first job?

[1985] Yeah, I would say so.

[1986] Our scripts were so good that I learned what good writing was.

[1987] Like, I know when dialogue is bullshit.

[1988] Like, I know I cut a lot of line.

[1989] I'd rather say less, you know what I mean?

[1990] And I know when something is sincere and insincere.

[1991] I think it's made me pretty picky about scripts.

[1992] I've turned down, I turned down a lot, you know.

[1993] Do you have a single one?

[1994] Like, we just heard Matt Damon.

[1995] I don't know if you saw this viral clip.

[1996] He's getting an interview and they asked him what he's turned down.

[1997] And he said, I turned down Avatar.

[1998] The original Avatar.

[1999] And not only did I turn it down, James Cameron called me and said, I want to give you 10 % of this movie.

[2000] Oh, no. So he goes, so I turned down $300 million.

[2001] Oh, no. Isn't that crazy?

[2002] See, now I understand that sick feeling in your stomach.

[2003] Yeah, right?

[2004] Oh, my God.

[2005] Makes me love him even more.

[2006] that happened to him.

[2007] He's such a victim.

[2008] 300 million.

[2009] And then they're making 10 more.

[2010] It's probably a billion when it's all set of that.

[2011] Oh my gosh.

[2012] Oh, my gosh.

[2013] Do you have any that you're like, oh, boy, I probably should have.

[2014] No, you know, they came to me with Lara Croft.

[2015] And I was just, I had this idea that I was going to have a different career.

[2016] And I was like, no, Laura, that's silly.

[2017] I don't want to do.

[2018] Too popcorny or something.

[2019] Well, and also I'd been doing horror movies.

[2020] Horror movies are not really my thing.

[2021] And, you know, I, people are always like, why did you choose?

[2022] I'm like, it was the first lead in a movie I was offered, you know, that I audition for.

[2023] And listen, I'm really grateful for those movies, but it's certainly not the movies I grew up watching or that I choose to watch.

[2024] And so, yeah, Lara Croft to me was just sort of a sidestep, just felt similar.

[2025] Yeah.

[2026] So that, and they came to me with aliens versus predator.

[2027] Because I had said to my team, I was like, I don't want to do horror.

[2028] I don't want it.

[2029] And they were like, no, we got a great one.

[2030] We have a great one.

[2031] aliens versus predator How is that any different So those kinds of things Which probably the movies did very well And I probably should have done them But you're fine with it I'm really I'm really fine with it Have you had a whole emotional arc We've had a lot of different people on here I experienced it myself Which is like I was on this show called punk It's what gave me my total chance To do everything And then for years I hated that I was on it And I didn't want anyone to talk about it And then at some point I was like, oh, that's so wonderful I was on this show.

[2032] People still talk about it.

[2033] It took me like years to come to peace with it and be grateful for it.

[2034] Right.

[2035] Screams the most successful horror franchise of all time, right?

[2036] Yes.

[2037] Yeah.

[2038] And on some level, you've got to be like, that comes around once every 50 years and I'm the face of it.

[2039] Absolutely.

[2040] But did you have a whole emotional journey with it?

[2041] Yeah, for sure.

[2042] Listen, the first one, it was so good for me. It was so huge.

[2043] It's a fucking awesome movie.

[2044] I'm not into horror movies, and I loved it.

[2045] No, they're really good movies, and I'm aware of that.

[2046] And I'm also aware that there are audiences who just love these films, and it means a lot.

[2047] And so I'm very, very grateful for them.

[2048] But I certainly did go through a period of time where all I was getting offered was horror movies, you know, and then so resenting it a little bit.

[2049] Of course.

[2050] Just wanting things to shift.

[2051] And actually, I moved to England, you know, which was a really good choice for me. Yeah, you did a play with Killian.

[2052] I did do a play with Killian.

[2053] Yeah, I did a few plays.

[2054] And it was Michael McKean as well.

[2055] Who I just watched in Better Call Saul.

[2056] Oh, he's in that?

[2057] He's so good in it.

[2058] He plays Saul's brother.

[2059] Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2060] He's so good.

[2061] I'm on my last episode of Breaking Bad today.

[2062] The very last...

[2063] You just started it?

[2064] I just, I'm on the very last one today.

[2065] Oh, wow.

[2066] That's so exciting.

[2067] I am excited.

[2068] And a little bit already sad.

[2069] Yeah.

[2070] Yeah.

[2071] What a show.

[2072] So good.

[2073] I'm like one of those people who's years behind.

[2074] That's great.

[2075] Then you can binge.

[2076] Have you done Game of Thrones?

[2077] I have not done Game of Thrones.

[2078] I'm so jealous of you.

[2079] You think I should?

[2080] Yes.

[2081] I hate fantasy.

[2082] I hate all that stuff.

[2083] But you love it.

[2084] It's the greatest.

[2085] I think I watched like the first two and I was like, everybody's naked.

[2086] I was just like, what's?

[2087] Yeah.

[2088] A lot of nudity.

[2089] I don't know.

[2090] Just a lot.

[2091] Like it just felt a little gratuitous and I just felt a bit bored by it.

[2092] I was like, is that what this is?

[2093] But maybe you get over that and you get into the characters.

[2094] I just never, I didn't give it that chance.

[2095] Kristen and I watched the first episode when it came out and we're like, oh, man, they pushed a little boy off.

[2096] They killed a kid.

[2097] I'm talking about this.

[2098] Now everyone's fucking, yeah, is this show suck?

[2099] Yeah.

[2100] Put it away for like two, three years.

[2101] Finally enough people said, and we said, let's sit down and watch three in a row.

[2102] Yeah.

[2103] And then, girl, we never took our head up.

[2104] I mean, we just became super fans.

[2105] I did that with Schitt's Creek.

[2106] I got to do that.

[2107] I need to do that too.

[2108] You haven't?

[2109] No. Oh, see, I'm excited for you.

[2110] Okay.

[2111] It's great.

[2112] I hear it just keeps getting better and better.

[2113] It keeps getting better and better.

[2114] You fall in love with the characters.

[2115] The actors just get better.

[2116] I mean, they're so talented anyway, but they just get so into their characters.

[2117] They have so much fun with it.

[2118] Yeah.

[2119] Okay.

[2120] Well, you're going to watch Breaking Bad.

[2121] I thank you a million times over for confirming my greatest fear.

[2122] It is something I should be embarrassed about weekly.

[2123] It's just a cautionary tale.

[2124] Also, it's an opportunity to make an amends.

[2125] I'm sorry that you were at work, overwork.

[2126] working two jobs trying to get a fucking breakfast burrito and I had to bring all my baggage at a party of five and put it on your lap so I apologize maybe this will liberate me from my embarrassment of it yes so I am sorry that I would have been a distraction from what was probably already a chaotic and hard stretch well I don't even remember but thank you all right thanks for coming in that was a party that was a party I'm not going to say it All right.

[2127] Well, we love you.

[2128] And then I guess I'll see you socially.

[2129] Yeah.

[2130] Yeah.

[2131] And your husband and I will talk.

[2132] And you and Kristen will fall asleep.

[2133] Yeah.

[2134] Perfect.

[2135] Maybe you guys should bring books to dinner.

[2136] Perfect.

[2137] Bye -bye.

[2138] Thank you.

[2139] Okay, Neb just laughed.

[2140] That was exciting.

[2141] That was really funny.

[2142] Now, how did you feel?

[2143] Did your tummy hurt?

[2144] You know, I felt the way she described feeling disconnected.

[2145] Wait, what do you mean?

[2146] Like she was saying, I felt so disconnected from.

[2147] from the person people liked.

[2148] Yeah.

[2149] And I, in revisiting that whole story, it feels like a different person I don't even know.

[2150] Right.

[2151] I was a different person I no longer know.

[2152] I see.

[2153] I had feelings that are disconnected.

[2154] The person is disconnect.

[2155] You know, like, I very much was relating to like, I almost now, that whole scene is a movie in my head.

[2156] I can see.

[2157] But it's not you.

[2158] It's not me. Yeah.

[2159] That's so weird.

[2160] Life is weird like that.

[2161] I have a lot of those.

[2162] You do?

[2163] But not Matt Damon.

[2164] I mean, that is tried and true.

[2165] Yeah.

[2166] The thing I will say that was so exciting about it is I feel so flattered that she was willing to come to or fact check and talk about that.

[2167] So nice.

[2168] I know.

[2169] And by the way, she doesn't, she never heard the fucking show.

[2170] She's just a nice person.

[2171] Yeah.

[2172] And she's friends with Kristen.

[2173] How do they know each other?

[2174] Through her brother, who she mentioned Christian.

[2175] Yeah.

[2176] They were in Reefer madness together.

[2177] And then I think in that whole period, she became friendly with Neb and has seen her over the years.

[2178] And they touch base.

[2179] Oh, Kristen and Christian.

[2180] Christian and Christian.

[2181] Kristen, again.

[2182] Oh, God.

[2183] I want to go on a brazma.

[2184] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[2185] Christian and Christian.

[2186] I think there's some irony.

[2187] I think they're similar.

[2188] You do?

[2189] Uh -huh.

[2190] Well, the introvert part, for sure.

[2191] Yeah, but there's like some, facially, I think they're similar.

[2192] You do?

[2193] Oh, my gosh.

[2194] I mean, obviously, brown hair, blonde hair.

[2195] But the structure of their face is similar.

[2196] They both have, like, nice pronounced jaw lines.

[2197] Okay.

[2198] And I think their noses are very similar.

[2199] Hmm.

[2200] So, you know what, you got her.

[2201] Congratulations, you got her.

[2202] You got her.

[2203] After all that.

[2204] After all that.

[2205] Well, that is another funny thing if we could add.

[2206] there is also a bizarre disconnect between what you want when you see movies and what I want in real life.

[2207] Like, I was very attracted to the fact that she cried every episode, right, and it was always sad.

[2208] And I wanted to cheer her up.

[2209] But I don't want a partner who's always sad.

[2210] I don't.

[2211] I don't even know why I thought I wanted.

[2212] You know, like, I don't understand why that's what I wanted when that's not.

[2213] Well, yeah, no. I mean, obviously I can relate.

[2214] You want to take care of.

[2215] You want to be a hero.

[2216] But it's not if it can't be every day.

[2217] I know.

[2218] But it doesn't have to be every day.

[2219] Once a week have a big.

[2220] No, like once every like six months, there's a big sadness.

[2221] Right.

[2222] Like what you were attracted to, I'm sure in Goodwill hunting is he was like really struggling.

[2223] No, of course.

[2224] But also the breakdown.

[2225] Oh, with the therapist.

[2226] Yeah, but that, the reason it was hot, it wasn't because he was crying at every scene.

[2227] It's because he was so closed off to it that when it broke, then he needs comfort and care.

[2228] But if he's doing it every day, then it's just boring.

[2229] Yes.

[2230] And also, I don't want to be a caretaker.

[2231] I want to be there for somebody, but I don't want, I'm not codependent in that way that I will get worth out of taking care of you.

[2232] I don't really want to do that either.

[2233] Yeah, ding, ding, ding.

[2234] You don't like hearing about my tampon that's stuck.

[2235] Oh, that's coming up in the future.

[2236] Also, I think I made it clear.

[2237] That's not my source of anxiety over it.

[2238] It's that I don't know what I'm supposed to do as your friend.

[2239] I know.

[2240] But you don't like when people around you are in pain.

[2241] You didn't have an issue.

[2242] A tampon stuck.

[2243] I'd rather that too.

[2244] We all wish I didn't have a tampon stuck in my vagina right now.

[2245] But again, we need to make a tampon.

[2246] really clear because people worry about you this is and i'll worry about you as they should you you you likely don't as well have one i likely don't because it's been a week and you would have died of tsss at this point listen okay you guys in an upcoming episode you'll find out yeah that it's been four weeks and i have it's been eight days no i have since passed exactly yeah exactly that'll fun for people if I'm dead.

[2247] No, it will not be fun for anybody.

[2248] Not to mention the guilt I will carry the rest of my life.

[2249] It's almost worth you dying to get that?

[2250] Yeah, I understand.

[2251] To have that final, you should have listened to me. Yeah.

[2252] I was right.

[2253] I'd rather be dead and right.

[2254] Well, look, we're in December now.

[2255] Uh -huh.

[2256] We're in the thick of it.

[2257] And we're approaching the end of the year.

[2258] We have two more experts and one more Monday for the year.

[2259] I don't like that.

[2260] Well, we have next year.

[2261] Okay.

[2262] We'll come back next year.

[2263] We also have some fun recap -y stuff coming up, and then we have.

[2264] We also got a nice report card.

[2265] I just want to thank all the listeners.

[2266] We got a really beautiful, encouraging report card that people have been listening more and streaming more and made us feel so happy.

[2267] So happy.

[2268] But then I had a down.

[2269] Oh, no. I just can't win.

[2270] It makes sense.

[2271] If you let yourself feel happy about the report card.

[2272] You have to feel bad about it too?

[2273] About, so then someone, and it was so congratulatory.

[2274] Someone sent me, this agent sent me an email.

[2275] It was like, congratulations on being number five.

[2276] Oh, no. So I open up this Hollywood Reporter thing.

[2277] And then Spotify listed the top five podcasts in the U .S. Rogan, I knew.

[2278] Yeah.

[2279] There's no way we're not.

[2280] Of course he's number one.

[2281] I thought we were number two on Spotify.

[2282] Yeah, I saw the list too.

[2283] We're not.

[2284] Two of the shows ahead of us are not exclusive to Spotify.

[2285] I had so many ways.

[2286] First was just like, damn, I wanted to be number two at Spotify.

[2287] I get that, yeah.

[2288] I mean, I want to be number one at Spotify.

[2289] But I also have a ton of respect for Rogan and what he's built for 15 years.

[2290] So I don't expect to beat Rogan.

[2291] So the only ones that are Spotify exclusives are Rogan and call me. daddy.

[2292] So we're number three.

[2293] Oh, caller daddy is also.

[2294] Not worldwide, but in the U .S. This is great.

[2295] Where is it?

[2296] I feel great about this.

[2297] Okay.

[2298] So, so right.

[2299] So first I'm sad.

[2300] Yeah.

[2301] Okay.

[2302] I'm really sad.

[2303] All right.

[2304] Let's let's back up.

[2305] I'm right and high off the report card.

[2306] I'm really proud of it.

[2307] I feel great.

[2308] I'm proud of you guys.

[2309] I'm proud of us.

[2310] Then this person is very congratulatory, which it should be.

[2311] There's three million podcasts.

[2312] I said this in the email.

[2313] There's three million podcasts and we're number five.

[2314] So another part of me is like have some fucking gratitude for being number five yeah it's insane have some gratitude like get a hold of yourself then i thought great i want to have something to aspire to so i was like okay great so we we were number three or at spotify we got you know let's go those shows are so different rogan obviously and call her i mean we're never going to be those two things and we don't want to be like that is not no i don't want to be their shows i just want to be i want the numbers i know but we're not that's just the world we live in we're doing the best we can do yeah yeah yeah so it was a whole ride though let's just say it was a whole ride and it the person was very well intention obviously he's not us so he's like oh my god your thing's number five in the u .s out of three million podcasts you're like oh my god why'd you send me this literally I opened it right before it's about to work out and I was like, I don't even think I can work out now.

[2315] I'm devastated.

[2316] No, that's so stupid.

[2317] Okay.

[2318] It's madness.

[2319] The mind is madness.

[2320] I hate the mind.

[2321] The mind is madness.

[2322] Listen, I'm proud of us and I'm really proud of the arm cherries more than anything.

[2323] Yeah, fuck us.

[2324] They're great in spite of us.

[2325] I think on average the armcharies are smarter than us.

[2326] Big time.

[2327] Listen, I have a grievance.

[2328] Oh, okay, great.

[2329] Ever since you asked me to send the gift guide ahead of time, I've been doing that.

[2330] Yeah, yeah.

[2331] Okay, this is great.

[2332] And I think that has stopped you from reading my gift guides.

[2333] And that is unacceptable.

[2334] That's a really good grievance, and you have a solid right to feel that way.

[2335] Yeah.

[2336] I'm reading, you're right.

[2337] I get them from you.

[2338] I get them from you.

[2339] I even send you links, and I don't even post links on the thing.

[2340] I know, listen, I get them from you, and now I'm busy shopping.

[2341] I told you, I ordered everything, just as I promised.

[2342] Yep.

[2343] By the way, thank God you hit me ahead of time.

[2344] The baskets?

[2345] The baskets from fucking, from Amber?

[2346] From Amber?

[2347] From Amber Interior.

[2348] Guess what?

[2349] I wanted to order three.

[2350] Could only order two.

[2351] Last two left.

[2352] I got them.

[2353] You posted, it worked.

[2354] I got them.

[2355] I wouldn't have got those.

[2356] So I thank you.

[2357] I thank you so much.

[2358] Wait, I think that...

[2359] You gave it to me. Yeah, I did.

[2360] I went and bought the only two remaining baskets.

[2361] I know.

[2362] It's all complicated.

[2363] You took the last two baskets and now you're not even reading my fucking guides.

[2364] That's a great complaint and I'm sorry.

[2365] What is really happening...

[2366] Robbie Wobb probably doesn't read him either.

[2367] I shouted him out.

[2368] I read them.

[2369] No, I read...

[2370] I read two of the three.

[2371] There's three out.

[2372] No, there's four.

[2373] Okay, well, today...

[2374] we're not counting.

[2375] I was too busy finding out we're not number two.

[2376] That took over my whole morning.

[2377] I have read two of the three that were out.

[2378] Okay.

[2379] Okay.

[2380] You have been sending them to me and then I get busy shopping and buying everything.

[2381] Once I finish shopping, I put that fucking phone down.

[2382] I'm done with that phone for a few hours.

[2383] And then I miss the important thing, which is your brilliant, clever writing.

[2384] I hope you will acknowledge, though, that when I read your thing, I immediately wrote you and said you're so clever and such a good writer.

[2385] Yeah, but not good enough to keep your attention for five days.

[2386] Not good enough for me to go on Instagram and scroll is what I didn't do.

[2387] I just wasn't on Instagram scrolling.

[2388] I went on it for two seconds yesterday to put a picture of Lane and Perfect Nine Charlie up.

[2389] I just want you to seek it out.

[2390] I know.

[2391] I'm going to, well, here's a I apologize.

[2392] You're right to have that grievance.

[2393] and I'm going to read them all now.

[2394] Thank you.

[2395] And I, of course, correct it.

[2396] I didn't send you today's.

[2397] And I'm not going to send you tomorrow's.

[2398] So now you're pulling.

[2399] Now you're punishing me. Now all the baskets are going to be gone.

[2400] So now you're punishing me. I'm just, I just, I learned a lesson that when I listen to you.

[2401] I loved those links.

[2402] It's a consequence.

[2403] I know.

[2404] I sent you, I can't believe I even, I took the time to send you links.

[2405] I loved it so much.

[2406] I don't post links on the gift guys.

[2407] I know, but you gave them to me. And I'm so grateful.

[2408] You know what's upsetting?

[2409] You're not even going to care about today's.

[2410] I'm not.

[2411] No. What's today?

[2412] Much of bullshit.

[2413] Stuff you're not going to do.

[2414] It's stuff you're not going to buy.

[2415] Filler?

[2416] It's not filler.

[2417] I think they're great.

[2418] I think they're great.

[2419] But I know you aren't going to do it.

[2420] Okay.

[2421] All right.

[2422] We'll see.

[2423] We'll see.

[2424] Very well written.

[2425] They're really fun for me. And this morning I woke up and I didn't want to do it.

[2426] There you go.

[2427] I almost posted a thing that said, I'm too tired today.

[2428] And I'm not doing it.

[2429] And then I thought, I got to do the right thing.

[2430] Can't be a quitter.

[2431] Can't be a quitter.

[2432] So I did it.

[2433] And then it made me very happy.

[2434] Okay.

[2435] Right.

[2436] This is my routine.

[2437] Yeah.

[2438] In fact, my whole journal this morning was about I can see clearly the pattern.

[2439] My pattern is very specific.

[2440] I wake up in the morning.

[2441] I'm immediately met with who's trying to fuck me. It's a new person.

[2442] It's not a new person.

[2443] There's a lot of recurring themes.

[2444] Sure.

[2445] A lot of it involves construction.

[2446] I woke up this morning with some frustrations with some, a project I'm doing, some other people that I start getting convinced or not doing anything.

[2447] Okay.

[2448] So I realize, here's you, Dax.

[2449] This is just you.

[2450] You're going to wake up and be convinced that someone's out to get you or, right?

[2451] Yeah.

[2452] And you just got to get through that.

[2453] Yeah.

[2454] And you will feel differently in 45 minutes, which I always do.

[2455] Yes, good.

[2456] I just have to weather that little storm.

[2457] And I choose to weather it by writing down how I'm feeling.

[2458] And in general, at the end of that, it's over.

[2459] That's good.

[2460] And I do think if I didn't do that, it would probably persist through most of the day.

[2461] I think that's great.

[2462] It's good to just have acceptance run it.

[2463] This is how I'm going to feel.

[2464] Yep.

[2465] And that's not changing, but then I can do this act.

[2466] And, you know, they say, observe your thoughts.

[2467] Like, just observe them.

[2468] And I think by having to write down how you're feeling, there is a, your third person in it.

[2469] Yeah.

[2470] Like, I'm now, Dax, the author of these thoughts.

[2471] So I'm observing them differently.

[2472] Yeah.

[2473] I also, man, I'm on a tear.

[2474] My cousin, Mandy, is like, she needs to have a podcast.

[2475] about the hanschels.

[2476] What's the hanschels?

[2477] The hanschels are my grandma yoles's family.

[2478] Grandma Yoles' backstory is too compelling.

[2479] I was going to write three pages about her.

[2480] Yeah.

[2481] And I'm now like 12 pages later.

[2482] I can't stop writing.

[2483] Because the hanshels were so fucking crazy.

[2484] I've told you about something.

[2485] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2486] Yeah, one of them blew the other one's head off.

[2487] Another one shot another one on leg.

[2488] The other one was killed of shop owner.

[2489] Somehow Mandy sent me court transcripts from a trial.

[2490] I'm reading it and I'm having the thought The only time I've ever read anything as crazy as this Is the Tarantino scripts I've read Whoa I just gotta hit you with one thing Yeah So Oliver Lee, my great uncle Okay Shot his older brother Orville Right Went to prison He's in prison He gets his hands on a case of liquor illegally By 7 a .m. He's already drank two pints of vodka he gets a piece of equipment like a truck that's used in the prison he and another guy an assailant they drive it through the wall of the prison they escape now they're out on the road in this work truck they decide we got to get into a normal car oh my god they call his younger brother cal my uncle cal who killed his shop owner and shot his brother dug in the leg cal happens to be out of prison at this moment he's in a nonstop he says yeah come over i'll drive you guys up north we'll get rid of you guys great decides he doesn't want to take his car goes to his buddy jessie's house jesse we need to use your cadillac okay well i'm coming with you guys okay mind you my uncle oliver was drunk when he drove through the wall of the prison before they get to cal's they've stopped at three bars this is all documented sure they've gone to three different bars in route to escape cal picks them up they go to two bars before they get to jessie's house to get the catalack Jesse doesn't have a license, but he has a Cadillac.

[2491] Oh, wow.

[2492] They get in Jesse's Cadillac to go up north.

[2493] They stop at seven bars between Detroit.

[2494] Yes, this is all documented.

[2495] At some point, through all this drinking and driving, Cal decides the assailant that's with Oliver is a liability and is going to kill them.

[2496] So he tells his buddy Jesse, I'm going to kill.

[2497] No. Yes, I'm going to kill this guy he's just escaped with.

[2498] I got to.

[2499] Everyone's hammered.

[2500] Comes up with the plan.

[2501] They stop at two more bars.

[2502] Oh.

[2503] All of a sudden, Jesse decides he'll kill him.

[2504] They're in the car and Jesse shoots the guy that Oliver Lee escaped earlier that morning.

[2505] So now he's dead in the car.

[2506] They pull over and get rid of the body.

[2507] Go to the bar.

[2508] Monica, this is all in the court transcripts.

[2509] They go to the bar.

[2510] They've been to like 13 bars in this day of escape from prison and they killed.

[2511] the guy it's impossible if you're seeing this in a movie you're like there's no way they're going to get back on plan to get out of this situation yes it's like fargo no mind you I'm piecing this all together Cal certainly doesn't go to prison for this because I know Cal's out in time to do this other shit that I've been writing about oh okay anywho I think they need it needs its own whole true crime podcast with like my cousins and the remaining people that have been around you know my mom and then my of course cal's the worst of all them calvin junior and he um he lived with my grandma honcho and when i go to papa bob and grandmas in the summer we would have to go to the farm and i fucking hated going to the farm the farm was gross and dusty and looked like a horror movie and grandma Hancho look like a ghost and she just kind of walked around aimlessly.

[2512] She was your great grandma.

[2513] My great grandma.

[2514] And then Uncle Cal, because it was summer, only wore Tidy Weddies.

[2515] So Uncle Cal was always in the house with Tidy Whatties sitting on the couch.

[2516] His only accessory was a 38.

[2517] He had a 38 handgun that he kept in his waistband.

[2518] Oh my God.

[2519] And we would go there and my grandma Yoles would say it was so boring.

[2520] She'd go, go play with the chickens.

[2521] I don't know how to play.

[2522] play with chickens?

[2523] How does one play with chickens?

[2524] And I'd go stand in the little coop and they would just get grosser and grosser looking to me. And I didn't want to play with them.

[2525] And I didn't understand how you play with them.

[2526] So I'd go back inside and I'd steal looks at cow because I knew he'd murdered people and I knew the whole thing.

[2527] And I would cross the living room and try to like see what he was doing and steal my glances.

[2528] And I was terrified of him.

[2529] But it was that compulsion of like staring over the edge of a tall building.

[2530] I couldn't stop.

[2531] walking through the living room to get my glances at Cal. Did he talk to you ever?

[2532] Oh, yeah.

[2533] He did?

[2534] Yeah.

[2535] He was a weird motherfucker.

[2536] Weird motherfucker.

[2537] No. Not cruel.

[2538] Just a scary force.

[2539] At that point, he'd killed many people, but he'd been there's a bunch of times.

[2540] molested my father.

[2541] An evil man jumped on my dad's hood and tried to punch the windshield to get to my mom.

[2542] Wait, he molested your father?

[2543] Yes.

[2544] Oh, my God.

[2545] Yeah.

[2546] I love that in the all.

[2547] the murders and everything, like, of course he molested my father.

[2548] No, that's a murderer.

[2549] No, what?

[2550] But yes, yes, yes.

[2551] In the, in the, in, in his busy schedule.

[2552] Wait, but I'm trying to figure, wait, hold on.

[2553] Hold on, okay.

[2554] Hold on.

[2555] Yeah.

[2556] This is your grandma's brother.

[2557] Uh -huh.

[2558] Was your dad's uncle?

[2559] Uh -huh.

[2560] But a lot of people get molested by their uncle.

[2561] Oh, this is right, right.

[2562] Right.

[2563] But it's important to say.

[2564] I get sometimes confused about who's whose side.

[2565] Right.

[2566] You know what's funny.

[2567] I got to add one thing.

[2568] I can't relate to people who are excited about their ancestors if they've done something important.

[2569] Like a lot of people, I mean, a lot of people like, oh, yeah, my great, great grandfathers founded Cleveland.

[2570] I can't relate to having pride over an accomplishment of someone I never met.

[2571] I'm not judgmental of it.

[2572] I just can't relate to it because I have some of those people in my family on the Lebeau side.

[2573] Like my mom's really proud of some of the people in our past.

[2574] I just, I never met them.

[2575] I don't know.

[2576] And it's nothing I did.

[2577] Yeah.

[2578] But weirdly, this is very strange.

[2579] But when I read about my uncles.

[2580] Yeah.

[2581] And I recognize my father, although crazy, what an improvement.

[2582] I was going to say that.

[2583] And I look at my life and I'm like, I am fucking 12 .5 % haunchal.

[2584] Certainly that explains like outbursts I've been capable of.

[2585] But all in all, I've kept it pretty damn together.

[2586] I should have shot David.

[2587] I should still be drunk.

[2588] I should be driving a dump truck through a prison wall.

[2589] Like, all in all, I feel this bizarre sense of accomplishment for both my dad and my uncle.

[2590] Yeah.

[2591] I was thinking that.

[2592] I was like, wow, your dad took a big leap of improvement, for real.

[2593] He really did.

[2594] Anywho, I'm almost like, it's taken over the thing I'm writing because I can't stop.

[2595] It's like so fascinating.

[2596] I'm reading these court transcripts and everything.

[2597] And now I'm like, God, there's like a whole thing here.

[2598] Wow.

[2599] Yeah.

[2600] Ooh, yoo.

[2601] Anyway, um, happy holidays.

[2602] Well, that was fun.

[2603] Nev. Nev. Thanks, my grievance.

[2604] I apologies.

[2605] My apologies.

[2606] I apologies to you.

[2607] And I'm going to go back now and I'm going to carefully read every word.

[2608] You don't have to.

[2609] I'm not, I just felt like, oh, I gave him an out.

[2610] You know what it is?

[2611] You're like, he used me. He got what he wanted.

[2612] He used me. That's right.

[2613] I get it.

[2614] Yeah.

[2615] And you're right.

[2616] And I apologize.

[2617] And I'm back.

[2618] I'm back.

[2619] All right.

[2620] Love you.

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