S4 E5: Close the Door or Die

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences.

[11] Many episodes discuss topics that can be triggering, such as emotional and physical abuse, suicide, and murder.

[12] Please take caution when listening.

[13] I am not a therapist or a doctor.

[14] Opinions expressed by guests of the show do not necessarily represent the views of this podcast.

[15] If you or someone you know is being abused, please contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1 -800 -799 -7233.

[16] If you or someone you love is experiencing a suicidal crisis or thoughts of suicide, please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1 -800 -273 -8255.

[17] Thank you.

[18] At the end of July 27, Tom's mom and Jim's wife, Edith Bogue, arrived in Jonestown with Juanita, Tina, and Marilee Bogue.

[19] During this time, the People's Temple Church was in the midst of a mass exodus from California to Guyana.

[20] Jim hadn't seen his wife Edith in over three years.

[21] Jim was excited to see Edith, but quickly learned the feeling wasn't mutual.

[22] Edith was still in a relationship with fellow temple member, Harold Cordell.

[23] During their awkward reunion, Jim tried to warn Edith to be weary of the two sheds, as they enjoyed reporting other members to Jones for perceived acts of misbehaving.

[24] Edith's prompt response to Jim's olive branch was to march over to Jones and tattle on him.

[25] That night, Jim was called up in front of everyone and be rated for his behavior.

[26] As the number of settlers in Jonestown multiplied, available resources were drained.

[27] This was a sharp contrast to the dream life Jones had sold his congregation back in California.

[28] Moral and health of church members rapidly declined in the humid jungles of Guyana.

[29] As confidence in Jones diminished, his addiction to drugs and sadistic behavior only escalated.

[30] I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is, something was wrong.

[31] If you think you know me, you don't know me well at all.

[32] You know me, but you don't.

[33] Due to increasing political, legal and social pressures from the outside world, members could see that Jim Jones, in his paranoid drug -induced state, was a ticking time bomb.

[34] He began holding mandatory church sessions called white night drills, where he pretended to have poisoned the congregation with cyanide mixed into fruit aid, similar to Kool -Aid.

[35] Jones began brainwashing the community to fear the outside world entirely and indoctrinated members with the idea of revolutionary suicide.

[36] Jones had designed an organization that could not survive his death or imprisonment.

[37] He programmed his members to believe that they simply could not live without him.

[38] We were kind of idiots.

[39] Me and Brian were.

[40] So we're sitting there while this is going on.

[41] And we were kind of like up close to the podium.

[42] And when people start drinking this and you see people crying and all this other stuff, Brian turns to me and he kind of whispers, he goes, dude, there's nothing to the Kool -Aid.

[43] I just in the back help and make it.

[44] Okay?

[45] And I snickered out loud.

[46] And he's like, what's so funny over there?

[47] And that's also when we found out that Jones couldn't tell if you were lying or not.

[48] Like he always said he could.

[49] And it was like, oh, crap.

[50] Nothing, Father.

[51] He was like, then why are you snickering?

[52] It's just the amount of joy that we have that we finally get to die for the cause and the revolution.

[53] And, you know, go down that road.

[54] He's like, see this?

[55] See these young men?

[56] See this?

[57] Even they understand it.

[58] Right?

[59] That was a close one, though.

[60] And you have to remember, too, there's always that psychosomatic reaction to things, too.

[61] So some people will, if you tell them they're sick, they're going to be sick.

[62] There's people like that in the world.

[63] We'd been doing white nights for probably six months to a year at that point.

[64] We were going to go out in revolutionary suicide.

[65] As John said, it'll be a shot herd around the world.

[66] By this time, we all knew something was going to happen.

[67] And it's building and building and building.

[68] And she struck him with her motor vehicle.

[69] She had been under the influence and that she left him there.

[70] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reid was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[71] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[72] What happens next?

[73] Depends on who you ask.

[74] Was it a crime of passion?

[75] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence.

[76] evidence was so compelling.

[77] This was clearly an intentional act.

[78] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[79] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[80] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[81] Everyone had an opinion.

[82] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[83] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[84] Law and Crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[85] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondry Plus.

[86] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[87] I'm Dan Tversky.

[88] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[89] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[90] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[91] She's like, I can't.

[92] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[93] It's like doubling and tripling, and it's all these girls.

[94] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[95] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[96] Well, you were holding something back.

[97] Intentionally.

[98] Yeah, well, yeah.

[99] No, it's hysteria.

[100] It's all in your head.

[101] It's not physical.

[102] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[103] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the Witches of Salem?

[104] Or is it something else entirely?

[105] Something's wrong here.

[106] Something's not right.

[107] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[108] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[109] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[110] You can binge all episodes of Histerical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[111] Back in the United States, Raven author Tim Riederman, tried for over a year to get approval from the People's Temple to visit Jonestown to investigate claims made by defectors and their families.

[112] Sammy Houston, father of Bob Houston, who had died in the suspicious train yard incident in San Francisco, worked with Raven author Tim Riederman at the Associated Press Office in San Francisco, which is how Riederman originally learned of the alleged abuse and possible murders of the People's Temple defectors.

[113] Prior to Jonestown, he met with a few defectors, but still needed more verifiable information, thus his interest in seeing Jonestown for himself.

[114] Sammy Houston, father of Bob Houston, had a longtime friendship with California Congressman Leo Ryan.

[115] After Bob died, his father, Sammy, approached his friend, the congressman, about helping him look into the suspicious death of his son and help him reconnect with his granddaughters, whom were still being raised by their mother in the church.

[116] Congressman Leo generously agreed to do his best to help his friend find answers.

[117] After reading an article on allegations against the People's Temple in the San Francisco examiner, Congressman Ryan declared his intention to visit Jonestown.

[118] His decision was also influenced by the Concerned Relatives Group, which consisted of church members worried family members.

[119] Congressman Ryan invited a handful of members of the media and the concerned relatives group to join him on the visit.

[120] Ryan seemed to want the news media presence to help force open the gates of Jonestown and offer a bit of personal protection.

[121] Amongst the small group of journalists was a national television network, and three major newspapers.

[122] Journalist Tim Ryderman was amongst the small group, and he was excited to finally get approval to visit Jonestown.

[123] Meanwhile, in Guyana, Jones began prepping his members for the congressman's visit.

[124] We were all on our best behavior because Ryan and his party was there, and we don't receive instruction to stay away from any of the reporters.

[125] Don't talk to anyone.

[126] If they approach you, these are the type of things you are to say.

[127] in response to their questions and make sure you don't say anything negative.

[128] Okay, and those are very explicit instructions.

[129] And we knew those are very explicit instructions there would be dire consequences if you did other than that.

[130] We didn't know ultimately at that, or I should say, we didn't know at that point what ultimately would happen.

[131] We were thinking more in terms of discipline and that sort of stuff.

[132] There was only certain ones that could make personal contact.

[133] They excuse themselves and get away because that was what they were told to do.

[134] A lot of them probably would have liked to said something because that's human nature.

[135] Like the one passing the note.

[136] Yeah.

[137] The first evening of the group's visit was peaceful, especially considering the circumstances.

[138] People's Temple members sang songs and performed acts for the congressman's group while they ate dinner and asked Jones questions about the church and his vision.

[139] After the visit to the compound, both the congressman and author Tim Riederman seemed to think that members were free to leave and appeared to be happy to live in Jonestown.

[140] Later that evening, as Ryan's group decompressed and reflected on the day and their Jonestown visit back at their hotel, Ryderman was informed by another reporter that he had been slipped a secret note from two temple members asking to leave Jonestown when Ryan's party departed.

[141] What the group had suspected seemed to be true.

[142] Not only did some people want to leave, but they also feared coming forward openly.

[143] You got so, you didn't even dare talk to your spouse about anything that might be a little off -collar.

[144] I mean, nobody, you didn't trust nobody.

[145] You learned not to trust.

[146] Now, once you were down there, all your information was provided by Jim Jones himself.

[147] What was going on in the world as he would, want to manipulate it for the purposes of controlling you.

[148] Now, Harold, he had a shortwave radio, so he was able to listen to, like, British broadcast and all this sort of stuff on it.

[149] But not very many people knew he had that radio.

[150] No, I don't know of anybody.

[151] I know I did.

[152] It was a contraband.

[153] Yes.

[154] Well, yes, because that gave you an outlet to hear what was going on the outside world.

[155] And that is often what caused conflict with the way Harold and mom.

[156] looked at what was being said in Johnstown, because here it is, they had a direct source outside of Johnstown they could listen to.

[157] And that's why, even though, for the most part, it seemed like they were just, you know, you're ever going faithful followers and everything else.

[158] But they had discovered shortly after being there in themselves, their things were not as they seemed based upon what they could hear off this radio.

[159] And do you think that helped your mom know?

[160] Yeah, it did.

[161] Like pushed her to know?

[162] Oh, absolutely.

[163] Absolutely.

[164] Yes, he did, because Harold had seen on the boat of this poison, I forgive what?

[165] cyanide.

[166] And he seen that, and he told Edith, and that's when Edith got smart.

[167] I was standing over in the cottage area when the reporters came through and I actually saw her pass the note to him.

[168] You did?

[169] Yes.

[170] Because that's when I told my dad what he saw, and that's when he gave me some instructions.

[171] because you figure if nothing came of it, you know, then we could just came back down from salt mill and nobody would be the wiser.

[172] But if something did come of it, then we could just cut out right through the jungle from right there and nobody would be the wiser.

[173] So it was kind of like a safe spot to be at.

[174] So we're all kind of mingling around and then we heard that the Parks family had gone to Ryan and told them they wanted to leave.

[175] So then immediately, you know, I told my father what had her?

[176] occurred and he said, well, you know, go tell your mom and sister.

[177] We're going to meet up with sawmill because we'd already been planning an escape as a family.

[178] We were going to meet up with sawmill with some local Amerindian.

[179] That was a friend of my father's and we're going to go out through the jungle.

[180] Yes, because things were getting dire and bad.

[181] And yeah, and there was a boat that was supposed to meet us over on the river and get us to Georgetown.

[182] We're going to end up going to the embassy.

[183] Those plans weren't to happen.

[184] When we heard, this was going because we knew that was the end you know we knew that that that day was not going to end well so i went and told you know everybody i was supposed to tell he told others and we all met up at the sawmill so things were getting scary real fast so we all went down to tell ryan we were leaving and then when we went down and told him that then it started growing and so first was the parks family then it was my family and then there were some others that started telling them they wanted to leave So the next thing Ryan knew is he had a group on his hands that wanted to leave.

[185] Everything wasn't rosy in paradise.

[186] And that was the first news he got of it that way, because until then it had been playing the role.

[187] So he said, okay, you goes, well, you guys go get on the truck and, you know, we're going to start heading out to the airport.

[188] So we grab a few of our belongings that we start walking out there to the truck.

[189] We get on the truck.

[190] Edith was strong that day.

[191] She was strong, probably stronger than me. but she kind of got us all together I think there was 16 of us in the back of that truck which I was upset at her all the time but but she seemed to be strong and accepted in kind of guiding us in this course and Ryan hadn't came out to the truck yet they heard of commotion back at the compound which is probably only 150 feet away from where we were at and it turned out that that's when Mark Sly had attacked Congressman Ryan and inadvertently somehow cut himself with a knife because there was some blood on Ryan's shirt.

[192] And so here we were back in the compound.

[193] Ryan was doing things around there and one guy grabbed Ryan around the neck and put a knife to his throat.

[194] But Jones told him to let him go.

[195] So Jones tells Ryan, you know, you need to go.

[196] I can't control this.

[197] So, Ryan, and not that Jones had any attention of controlling it, because Jones set the whole thing up to start with.

[198] So he gets on the truck.

[199] We take off, we start heading out.

[200] We get to the main gate entering the compound.

[201] And there was one of the guards there, Joe Wilson, and they're carrying guns now.

[202] It's like, we're not hiding anything anymore now.

[203] Zero to 100.

[204] Until then, Ryan had never seen any guns.

[205] Okay.

[206] okay but now there's guns out so Ryan knows this shit's serious okay and so anyway he he's going to search the truck he's looking for his wife and child he brought his wife and child his child yes Congressman Ryan no no no no no no no Joe Wilson was looking for his wife and child what he didn't know is just the day before she'd came up and asked me for the path to get out of Jones Town the path that leads out of the back of the compound over to the road because she wants out there was her and I guess a few others that went that party and went out through the backside so so naturally she's not with us and I didn't know really what had happened to her I had found out until later that she did actually take that path along with a few others So again, the truck, or he doesn't find him, so we leave, we go out to the airport.

[207] And because there's so many of us, they had to order another airplane.

[208] So now we're stuck on the tarmac waiting.

[209] I think there was 21 defectors at that time.

[210] I don't quite remember how many, but they used 21 or 28, something like that.

[211] Anyway, so about an hour later, the other airplane shows up.

[212] And we're on pins and needles the whole time because nothing ever goes this smoothly.

[213] So we start boring up on the planes.

[214] And we tell the congressman that Larry Shack is not a defector.

[215] He was part of Jones's entourage.

[216] And Larry Shack had been so beat down by Jones over the years that he was kind of at the point he would just do whatever Jones said.

[217] He basically became an automaton.

[218] Okay, fine, I'll go do this, right?

[219] And so they kind of did a little pat search.

[220] I remember watching them do the paters.

[221] She was like, really?

[222] That's your search.

[223] So they totally missed the gun that Larry was carrying.

[224] So they get on the smaller plane.

[225] Our family gets on the bigger plane, along with several others.

[226] We started getting on the plane, the two planes.

[227] There was two of them there.

[228] And I was on there with Juanita and Tom and Tina.

[229] the shooting it all started and I can't remember exactly when but it was just a few minutes later Larry pulls out the gun shoots Monica Bagby doesn't kill her though goes to shoot Laverne who's I guess in front of them or next to him and the gun misfires they're wrestling the gun away from them and at the same time this tractor starts pulling up with a trailer behind it and when it pulls up, it swings around the planes, it pulls up even parallel to our plane, and then gunmen stand up and they start shooting.

[230] And they're just shooting anybody they can see.

[231] And at that point, Patty Parks, who was sitting right in front of me in the airplane, I'm sitting right across from the door, she gets the back of her head shot off, and her brain just fall up my feet.

[232] And I remember everything I was thinking, right?

[233] And it was like, Then the very next thought was, close the door or die.

[234] And that was it.

[235] It was just pure survival instinct.

[236] It was closed the door or die.

[237] And so I jump up and go to close the door.

[238] I grabbed the two wires that hold on the stairway down and start pulling up on it.

[239] I can't quite get it.

[240] And then my sister gets behind me and it starts to pull on me because she sees what I'm doing.

[241] That's when I get shot, get the back of my leg blown off.

[242] And that's when she gets shot in her leg also with.

[243] 22 which rattles around and goes out her bone and comes back out her ankle but we get the door closed Tom and Tina closed the door on the plane which was very vital and they both got shot and the guy that shot him he was a friend of ours before we even went to Guyana I mean before we even in the Jones group Through my dad, he came for a therapeutic massage.

[244] One woman, Tina was holding her hand when she got shot.

[245] It just took off the top of her head.

[246] Tina had strength, too, in that kind of a situation.

[247] It's funny how people get strength in the oddest times.

[248] Just prior to all this happening, when we were still on the tarmac, my father had already told me, If anything happens, grab your sisters and run, run for the jungle.

[249] Because her, he knew all my background in the jungle, because I lived there basically two years before this all started going crazy.

[250] So...

[251] How many sisters did you have?

[252] Two.

[253] Well, actually, I had three sisters, but two that left.

[254] And one sister stayed because her husband was staying.

[255] My other two sisters left with us.

[256] And we left one daughter there.

[257] Jones had really captured her.

[258] So at that point, when the door's closed they shoot a couple times more at the plane then they get off the trailer and they start walk around just point blank shooting people that are on the ground and I mean Ryan was by one of the tires of the plane and he just walked them and shot them in the head and then they got on the trailer and left oh and they shot the tire on the plane too so it couldn't leave when they left with the tractor and trailer I went outside and Jackie Speer was there, and she'd been shot.

[259] And the ants were crawling around on the, and so they was kind of on her, and I tried to comfort her, and I'd sent and got some liquor.

[260] And I was feeding her liquor.

[261] I think I got her drunk, I'm not sure.

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[271] So they get on the trailer, they leave.

[272] and after, you know, about five minutes ago, we let the doorway back down, the gangplank.

[273] And a few minutes goes by, and somebody screams, they're coming back, they're coming back.

[274] So that's for me and my sisters.

[275] We boat for the jungle.

[276] And the Parks kids, Tracy, Brenda, and Brenda's boyfriend ran with us.

[277] Yeah, I told Tom to take Juanita and these other two, three kids, I don't remember.

[278] But he took him into the jungle, and I guess he was in there three days, something like that.

[279] And then we were out in the jungle for three days and two nights, and we decided we were going to come back out and had gotten lost.

[280] So we're kind of following this one river.

[281] Because you have no idea what's going on at the pavilion at this point, right?

[282] You have no idea.

[283] So you just think you're being hunted?

[284] Yes.

[285] and actually we believe we were being hunted in the jungle too because at one point after the second night in the jungle we'd awakened and we could smell cigarette smoke and we saw this one guy in a military outfit leaning up against the tree smoking a cigarette so and the river the creek river what do you want to call it that was close by so we just slipped into the creek and just kind of like floated down the creek just ain't as low as we could just like you see in the movies.

[286] You know, you just got your nose above the water and you're just...

[287] But what had happened, why we were in the jungle is they'd sent other planes out.

[288] Pick them up.

[289] My father...

[290] I don't remember my stepdad at that point had stayed there also.

[291] There was a couple of others that had stayed waiting for us to come out of the jungle.

[292] And my dad had no idea that I'd been so injured because I got in the back of my leg blown off that by the third morning, I was delirious.

[293] I lost all my sense of direction.

[294] all that he just kept telling him you know my son's with him he knows jungle they'll come out they'll come out they'll come out right but like i said he had no idea that i i was not in my right mind anymore yeah i was done and uh i'd got maggots in my leg which what they say about maggots is true they eat gangrene that's all so it actually was healthy saved my leg wow so we ended up uh we're most way out the parks went ahead of us because me and my sister could barely walk in anymore.

[295] So they'd gone ahead and came out.

[296] Then they'd sent some locals up the river with some canoes.

[297] They'd gotten us.

[298] We came back out.

[299] Edith and somebody else, they went, go to the town.

[300] I told them I wouldn't leave until we found out where they were.

[301] And so, in like I said, like three days, I stayed there and here they come walking up.

[302] I was the biggest surprise.

[303] I was the biggest You've ever seen.

[304] What did you feel like when you saw them again?

[305] Oh, well, I don't think you can tell it.

[306] And from there, we ended up having to spend the night in the local bar there because they didn't where else to stay.

[307] And the next morning, they flew us out.

[308] And then I was in the Georgetown Hospital for a month, recovering from my leg.

[309] Then we came back and we got to the state.

[310] States, and we were interviewed several hours by the FBI.

[311] Next time.

[312] Something Was Wrong is written, recorded, edited, and produced by me, Tiffany Reese.

[313] Thank you so much to the Boog family for participating in this season.

[314] Music by Gladrags.

[315] Listener cover by Catwhite, catwhitemusic .com.

[316] Follow me on Instagram at Looky Boo.

[317] i .e. B -O -O.

[318] Resources mentioned on the podcast can be found linked in the episode notes or at something was wrong .com slash episodes.

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