113 - Live at Kingsbury Hall in Salt Lake City

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only Martyrs in the Building premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Listen up.

[17] I'm Lisa Trager.

[18] And I'm Kara Clank, and we're the hosts of the True Crime Comedy Podcast That's Messed up, an SVU podcast.

[19] Every Tuesday, we break down an episode of Law and Order SVU, the true crime it's based on, and we chat with an actor from the episode.

[20] Over the past few years, we've chatted with series icons like Bidi Wong, Kelly Giddish, Danny Pino, and guest stars like Padgett Brewster and Matthew Lillard.

[21] And just like an SVU marathon, you can jump in anywhere.

[22] Don't miss new episodes every Tuesday.

[23] Follow that's messed up, an SVU podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

[24] Dun done!

[25] Gotta choreograph that dance.

[26] Got to Someday Hi best friends Opportunities for screaming at these shows Shit It's the best Loving it It looks like there's a ghost Walking someone to their seat up there Do you guys have ghost Dushers here?

[27] Because we did not approve that Is that the undead screaming in the back?

[28] What's happening?

[29] Oh, huge zombie contingent tonight Yeah We love it.

[30] They're like, there haven't been zombies in this theater for 25 years.

[31] That's right.

[32] I'm pulling out all the hits for the live show.

[33] Since 1990.

[34] Thanks.

[35] I just want to point this out really quick.

[36] I stopped curling my hair right about here.

[37] You know, yourself?

[38] I was just like, this sucks.

[39] I'm bored.

[40] If you can't see it, right?

[41] Then who fucking, it doesn't, then it's just.

[42] Not there.

[43] Just always keep your head.

[44] Real turned.

[45] Don't let anybody come up on your hind quarter at all.

[46] Just keep it.

[47] Hey, hey.

[48] Keep it to the Farrah Fawcett area.

[49] You wanted me to remind you Live Corrections Corner.

[50] Oh, you want to do it right off the top?

[51] Oh, do you?

[52] Fresh and sure.

[53] I guess I do.

[54] Guys, so the episode dropped today.

[55] And...

[56] Thank you.

[57] It happens every Thursday.

[58] Thank you.

[59] It's easy.

[60] You can do it yourself.

[61] It's just, you just upload it onto a computer.

[62] It's crazy.

[63] You just get yourself with Stephen.

[64] That's right.

[65] Make him do everything.

[66] See that.

[67] He's not here.

[68] Although...

[69] Yeah, no, we don't bring him.

[70] But doesn't it look like someone's standing under here?

[71] We brought Stephen's favorite skirt to use as the table.

[72] He's very shy, so he's bent at the waist under this table.

[73] We need a moment of silence for the relationship between Jennifer and Aniston and what's his face?

[74] Right.

[75] We'll just call him that.

[76] We'll just call him that from now on.

[77] Matt.

[78] Matt.

[79] Matt.

[80] Oh.

[81] Poor babe.

[82] Justin's something.

[83] It doesn't matter anymore.

[84] He looks really good on her arm, I must say.

[85] I never bought it.

[86] No?

[87] Brad just destroyed her, and everything after that was, it was a, look at what I can do.

[88] Good for her.

[89] Right?

[90] But then there's this already, it came out today that they're breaking up, and then it's like, everyone's rooting for a Brad Pitt and Jennifer Ernestine back together.

[91] Nobody cares.

[92] Nobody is.

[93] And what if every fucking time you broke up with someone, everyone was like, remember that guy who cheated on you 10 fucking years ago?

[94] Everyone's hoping you guys get back together.

[95] Marry him for the second mistaken time.

[96] You know, though, how he has 10 kids.

[97] Everyone wants you to get back together with him.

[98] Being a stepmom to 10 is amazing.

[99] Fuck that shit.

[100] Did I ever tell you the story that I know that's the secret Burbank story?

[101] Okay, this day is here in the vault.

[102] SLC, you're in the vault now.

[103] Can I trust you?

[104] with a secret.

[105] It's not really a secret.

[106] It's a thrift store on Riverside in Burbank and the word on the street is, you know, it's the American Heart and Long Association thrift store.

[107] All the old ladies are just fucking smoking butts all day, but the word on the street is that, because it's the one that's the closest to the Warner Bros. Studios where they shot the television show Friends.

[108] and when it first came out that Brad Pitt was cheating on Jennifer Aniston with Angelina Jolie when they were shooting some wonderful film in like in Greece or somewhere.

[109] It was that Greek one.

[110] Yeah, we know.

[111] Let's not talk about it.

[112] She took all of his clothes out of his mansion closet and drove it on down to the American Heart and Lung Association thrift store and dropped every item of clothes.

[113] Yes.

[114] At this, now it's Brad Pitt's clothes.

[115] So they're all $11 ,000 shirts.

[116] And they smell incredible.

[117] They smell.

[118] I orders just bought them just to lay face down in a pile of...

[119] No, I wouldn't.

[120] Vince, I wouldn't have done that.

[121] They're like, do you want to smell what luck smells like?

[122] Yeah, and so for...

[123] Normally, there's a lot of wicker chairs and there's a lot of pictures of the Orient.

[124] for sale in this restaurant and then some paperback books by James Patterson God bless the soul but then for like I'm sure eight wonderful days it was just filled with like the highest end clothing that's all I can guess that's high end Hugo Boss what's high end men's clothing Armami Michael Coors we'll name everything we've seen in Macy's Nordstrom Rack I thought that's all I know Cole Hahn slip on shoes There you go What about your outfit?

[125] Do you want to talk about it a little bit?

[126] I shop at vintage stores Thank you because I don't know any names and designers and now no one can fucking blame me for wearing cheap shit Because it's old, it's vintage, it's old, it's fine That's right So this is an old dress Thank you Walk it down down the rug Yeah Yeah They love it.

[127] Oh, a full square.

[128] She's doing square footage.

[129] Loving it.

[130] You just invented the new runway.

[131] Just a big, gorgeous rectangle of rug.

[132] On a gorgeous rug.

[133] Oriental rug.

[134] Oriental rug.

[135] We demand it.

[136] Thank you, whoever brought this from home.

[137] We really appreciate you.

[138] Letting your foyer go bare for us this evening.

[139] While we enjoy.

[140] touching it and loving it.

[141] It'll be for sale outside in the lobby after the show.

[142] What are you wearing?

[143] I almost said, what are you doing?

[144] What are you doing over there?

[145] Well, I can't find shirts that fit me, and I don't try to find them.

[146] I was going to buy, I swear to got it like 9 o 'clock at CVS.

[147] I was going to buy a black shirt that said Burbank on the front of it.

[148] Represent Because I'm a joke It'll be fine Don't worry about me It'll be fine This is actually our Oh this is the last Like weekend away Of this tour I just realized That's we're capping it off At SLC Everybody Double fucking shows here Yes Yes University of Utah You guys are the ones This show We're doing two shows here Because last The first show Last night Tomorrow night Where are we?

[149] Sometime this week It sold out already So you guys are the ones Who didn't wake up early The day of And then email put us on Twitter saying Out of another show, it's sold out I'm angry at us So that's what we did for you Well done, thank you for advocacy We only listen to anger Thank you for using your anger Constructively That's what we mean Use it to bring us places That's the way do it.

[150] Oh, this is my favorite murder of the podcast.

[151] That's right.

[152] This is Karen Kilgariff.

[153] This is Georgia Hard Star.

[154] Thank you.

[155] Lots of screaming time.

[156] We're the two voices in your head while you drive or work or are supposed to be doing something else.

[157] That's right.

[158] I wrote down on this piece of favor to talk about a smell like a rave.

[159] Really?

[160] A rave?

[161] Rave.

[162] Our shampoo and things?

[163] in the hotel room smell like me when I would go to raves.

[164] Uh -oh.

[165] It's just this like a victorious secret body spray smell.

[166] It smells like grinding teeth.

[167] Yeah.

[168] What is that?

[169] tooth powder?

[170] The powder of my own molars?

[171] When you got the first wave of the smell of raves, what was your first emotional reaction to that smell?

[172] Ew.

[173] Uh -huh.

[174] No. And then...

[175] D -ee.

[176] dependent on how you see a bit of delight perfectly it's amazing because my friend Dave Messmer one time when we were in fake college I dropped out I met him at the JC in the drama department he didn't claim to be gay yet but he had the hugest poster of Madonna on his apartment wall that when I walked in I went oh no were you hoping to make out and then you're like like, ah, shit.

[177] Fuck, fuck.

[178] But he is my lifelong best friend.

[179] Wait, what?

[180] I thought...

[181] I thought I was...

[182] Do you even know me two years?

[183] Whoops!

[184] I thought I was your lifelong.

[185] You have actually pulled ahead of most people.

[186] Ah!

[187] I mean, it's not her.

[188] I live in fucking Hollywood.

[189] It's like, everyone's the worst person.

[190] There's...

[191] I mean, I had the choice of her or her husband, Vince.

[192] That was pretty much it in terms of quality.

[193] people in Los Angeles.

[194] Should we tell them what three of us did for Valentine's Day last night?

[195] We had to record on Valentine's Day, and then I was like, we were talking at, like, two, we're like, let's do it early.

[196] I'm like, what if Stephen has Valentine's Day plans?

[197] And then it turns out none of us have Valentine's Day plans.

[198] Well, this is the best Stephen goes.

[199] We go, so as we were leaving, I was like, Vince, we should have them stay and like eat pizza or whatever, you know, for Valentine's Day.

[200] And so we asked you, and you're like, great.

[201] Of course I'm like, yes.

[202] Fine.

[203] And then we asked Stephen, and we're like, he got to pause.

[204] We're like, oh, do you have a date?

[205] And he's like, I have to work on this podcast recording.

[206] He had to go home and cut out all the bullshit, dumb parts, not fix the date.

[207] Yeah.

[208] His date was work.

[209] Was us.

[210] The two meanest girls in his life.

[211] Immediately, we were like, bye, have a good night.

[212] Go, go.

[213] Get out of here.

[214] Hurry up.

[215] I gave him some, um, what are those chocolate things that we love?

[216] Um, the Buckeyes.

[217] Oh, yeah, we got some Buckeyes.

[218] So he's fine.

[219] He was fine.

[220] Buckeyes from Ohio, right?

[221] Yeah.

[222] Oh, you guys know?

[223] All right.

[224] So we were just in Ohio and people gave us repeatedly everywhere we went.

[225] Humongous balls of peanut butter covered in chocolate.

[226] And it would be like in a Tupperware container or whatever.

[227] It would be like, I had my mother make these for you all night last night.

[228] We don't question it.

[229] We just fucking eat them.

[230] You just fucking plowed them down.

[231] Ooh.

[232] Should we sit down?

[233] Yeah, we might as well.

[234] Oh, look at this.

[235] I'm going to stay over here.

[236] Are you going to go way over there?

[237] Yeah.

[238] Look at these teeny tiny, cute little kids.

[239] This is one of the safest heights you can sit at at a cocktail table.

[240] I guess I heard that in Utah, they don't let you sit any higher than this after.

[241] That's right.

[242] 10 o 'clock.

[243] After midnight.

[244] You're not allowed to sit over eight inches above the plane of the table.

[245] This is so if you get secretly drunk at your house you can just put your head on the table.

[246] No, go ahead.

[247] I'm listening to your story.

[248] I'm going to wear this.

[249] You should make this into a beautiful skirt and wear it tomorrow.

[250] This is actually, this might be the solution to my dress problem.

[251] Yeah.

[252] I just slip it over my shoes.

[253] Yeah.

[254] And then I walk out like, fucking mum and shant's type of shit.

[255] Here, they gave you this.

[256] You can make this into a tube top.

[257] That's gorgeous.

[258] What is this?

[259] Some sort of cloth that they cut from a drape?

[260] Yeah.

[261] Yeah, I know theater terms.

[262] I'm of the theater.

[263] Oh, the end of that Dave's story, my second best friend in the world, is we were at a party one night and we got insanely high to the point where we could only sit on the couch, and I was definitely having a panic attack for sure.

[264] But I hadn't had one before so I was just like it's all ending now I'm so young and then I realized I wasn't dying it was just that Dave wouldn't stop lip syncing the delight album at me from the side she was like lip syncing people when you're fucking really high yeah so he's just like day pending just like please don't make me that's not even a good delight song either it's no it's just the first one and then he continued to do it for the rest oh Jesus Christ look I'm not here to complain about Dave I am I am that's what your murder is Dave oh you didn't know I killed him real quick I took care of Dave for you Dave Massimer everybody I'm gonna kill him oh I feel like we should think even though they probably didn't do it.

[265] This place caught Ted Bundy.

[266] So thanks, Utah.

[267] Salt Lake City.

[268] Oh.

[269] Thanks, guys.

[270] I missed the verb.

[271] Caught.

[272] Oh.

[273] Caught.

[274] But I thought it happened in Florida.

[275] No, he is, well, he got out of, he escaped from here, right?

[276] Oh, I see.

[277] When he jumped out of the jail window and then ran up the hill.

[278] No, it's a different time.

[279] Hi.

[280] Hi.

[281] He escaped from Colorado.

[282] Sorry, hold on a second.

[283] She's still yelling, and she's started by, she goes, Hi, I'm Celine Beck.

[284] Oh shit, you're the documentary member that's like, you need to know my first and last name before I tell you, Ted Bundy Facts.

[285] Holy shit.

[286] Here, there's Thomas Rugg.

[287] He told us you can't, you're coming tomorrow night.

[288] And so that's why we didn't know.

[289] How did he know?

[290] This was a secret.

[291] Oh.

[292] But you immediately started yelling the second you had to Yes.

[293] I was.

[294] But as soon as you said Ted Bundy escaped from here, I was like, no, no, no, no. Let me tell you.

[295] Just say it, how do we get it wrong just now?

[296] So Ted escaped twice from Colorado.

[297] Okay.

[298] Not from here.

[299] The second time is when he went to Ann Arbor and then went to Florida for his final killings.

[300] Girl.

[301] Tell everyone what you do and what's happening.

[302] We just talked about her.

[303] I know, but maybe they didn't catch up today.

[304] It's so exciting.

[305] Hi, so I'm the director of Theodore the documentary that's coming here.

[306] I'm like, my shit.

[307] No, so all, everyone here has, like, been tweeting at me, but I didn't want to say that I was coming tonight.

[308] Oh.

[309] So, hi.

[310] Hi.

[311] I'm so glad you introduced herself.

[312] Yeah.

[313] I'm sorry I yelled at you.

[314] I feel bad.

[315] Okay.

[316] Thank you.

[317] Bye.

[318] Is she leaving?

[319] I don't know.

[320] Oh, okay.

[321] Do you have a question?

[322] You're going to stay for the show, right?

[323] Oh, fuck yeah.

[324] Okay.

[325] Well, if we have any questions, we'll ask you.

[326] We know you're saying.

[327] You were like, and her name is Selina.

[328] And I'm like, oh, shit, wait.

[329] That's the best thing of all time.

[330] I just thought it was like, she was basically like thought she was at a town hall meeting where she's like, hello, I'm Celine Beck, and I'm on the actor's track.

[331] I just want to let you know you're pretty much wrong about everything all the time.

[332] Okay.

[333] Thanks for podcasting.

[334] Perfection.

[335] We miss some shit sometimes.

[336] I mean, could you imagine if people made documentaries where they were just like, and then Ted Bundy 10 years, years after he actually did the thing.

[337] They just got everything wrong.

[338] Yep.

[339] Do a follow -up documentary.

[340] Okay, here's the stuff we should have looked at a little closer.

[341] Listen.

[342] Look, listen.

[343] We're not perfectionists.

[344] Certainly.

[345] Hey, this is exciting.

[346] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[347] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[348] But there's a mystery hanging over.

[349] over everyone.

[350] Who killed Saz?

[351] And were they really after Charles?

[352] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[353] This season murder hits close to home.

[354] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[355] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[356] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[357] Who knows what'll happen once the cameras start to roll?

[358] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Davey, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[359] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[360] Goodbye.

[361] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[362] Absolutely.

[363] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash?

[364] Exactly.

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[367] That's right.

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[376] Connect with customers inline and online.

[377] Do retail right with Shopify.

[378] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash murder.

[379] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

[380] Go to Shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today.

[381] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[382] Goodbye.

[383] I go first, right?

[384] Do you?

[385] Yes.

[386] Did you go first last?

[387] Yes.

[388] Yeah, I went first today.

[389] We've actually just caught up with ourselves podcasting -wise.

[390] What?

[391] It's today, today.

[392] It's today in this world.

[393] Fuck.

[394] All right.

[395] Could we have some oxygen roll down on to the stage?

[396] So we heard that people have fainted on this stage before.

[397] My head is a little warm right now, actually.

[398] Do it.

[399] Go down in the middle of this story.

[400] I'll do it.

[401] I'm here for it.

[402] What if I have to pee and so I just pretend to faint so I can go pee and then come back?

[403] If you fake a seizure, you can pee during it.

[404] Because, yeah, that's what happens.

[405] Great.

[406] Great.

[407] Grand mall, baby.

[408] Let it all go.

[409] What if I actually have a seizure now and everyone thinks I'm faking?

[410] Fuck, this isn't going to work.

[411] Just roll you up in this carpet.

[412] Okay, this is...

[413] If anything happened to us, we would just be taken off the stage and Celine would be right up here in one fucking second.

[414] She's like, I actually happened to have a PowerPoint presentation of all the times they've been wrong.

[415] Oh, that's exciting.

[416] It is.

[417] This is the story of the murderer, Ronnie Lee Gardner, Utah.

[418] What a dick.

[419] Is this guy a real dick?

[420] He's a real dick.

[421] Okay.

[422] All right.

[423] This guy, Ronnie Lee Gardner, he's born in Salt Lake City, Utah.

[424] You've heard of it.

[425] On January 16th, 1961.

[426] Great.

[427] There we are.

[428] Okay.

[429] Don't get defensive about it.

[430] I'm establishing a time and a place.

[431] I see.

[432] He is the youngest of seven fucking children.

[433] It's not where you want to be.

[434] That's rough.

[435] His father's a heavy drinker.

[436] And when Ronnie's a toddler, he's like, you know what?

[437] I'm going to start over and try this again.

[438] And he leaves to start a new family.

[439] Which is like, you gave it a shot.

[440] And it didn't work.

[441] So maybe you shouldn't keep trying.

[442] Yeah, get out of the family business and go into, like, mattresses or something.

[443] Right.

[444] It's not working for you.

[445] You tried seven times.

[446] Yeah.

[447] So soon after that, Ronnie, okay, Ronnie is an asshole.

[448] We hate him.

[449] However, he had really no chance not to be based on his childhood.

[450] I mean, it's bad.

[451] Okay, let's do it.

[452] Soon after little baby Ronnie is found wandering the streets in a diaper malnourished.

[453] What?

[454] Just fucking walked away the way you used to do, but it was funny when you did it.

[455] That's right.

[456] Because I had like pigtails and we were in the country.

[457] And you were like supervised.

[458] Yeah, that's true.

[459] It was lightly supervised.

[460] You were in 1970s something supervised.

[461] Right, which meant a truck drove by every once in a while.

[462] Which now would be child neglect.

[463] But back then it was how you parent.

[464] Wait, so how old was he when this happened?

[465] He is a toddler.

[466] Oh, okay.

[467] Child welfare comes in and does a fail -to -care petition, takes him into custody, but later return him to his mother.

[468] And according to Ronnie, he was raised by an older sister, Also, he was sexually abused by his siblings.

[469] Oh.

[470] Sometimes he and his sister, Bonnie, would run away and seek refuge.

[471] They'd be like, this home life sucks.

[472] Let's go somewhere safe like a hobo camp.

[473] No. Yeah.

[474] By the time he's 10 years old, Ronnie is addicted to drugs, and he's allowed to have alcohol.

[475] 10?

[476] Which, like, my mom bought me Zima to try when I was 12.

[477] So, Mom, it's your fault.

[478] All of this is your fault.

[479] I made myself a wine spritzer when I was, I think I was in seventh grade.

[480] Me and my friend Holly drank our parents' liquor and talked on the phone one time.

[481] Oh, my God.

[482] We're just like, let's just do it.

[483] Who cares?

[484] You thought you were so sophisticated?

[485] I need a drink.

[486] I'm seventh grade.

[487] I'm the youngest alcoholic in my school.

[488] Be proud of that.

[489] So Ronnie had this, still had a relationship with his father, but it was a really shitty relationship because his dad didn't think that Ronnie was his biological kid and he told his son and all his siblings out all the time which is a great way to raise your kid or not your kid.

[490] So Ronnie and his brother were arrested for stealing cowboy boots and taken to juvenile detention which I think is something you probably would have done.

[491] Abs a hundred loop.

[492] Because cowboy boots.

[493] Technically I did steal them off of my sister.

[494] I've told this story, but my sister on her fifth, her sixth birthday, my aunt Jean gave her a pair of red cowboy boots, and when she opened the box, I screamed at the top of my lungs, put them on, and would not take them off.

[495] And then I wore red cowboy boots for like two years straight.

[496] Yeah.

[497] Finders keepers.

[498] That's right.

[499] Screamers keepers.

[500] So they go to juvenile detention and his stupid father comes and takes his brother home but won't take him home because he's like he's not my son.

[501] I'm not bailing him So, like, all right, yeah.

[502] So Ronnie's mom eventually marries another man, and they have nine children.

[503] What in the...

[504] Catholics?

[505] In Utah?

[506] Does that even happen?

[507] Okay.

[508] But Ronnie actually admired his stepfather because he had been in prison in the past, and he used his stepson as lookouts while burglarizing home.

[509] Good.

[510] You've got to get a whole family, like a thing going.

[511] What does everybody like?

[512] Do you like to play Uno?

[513] Do you like to burglarize your neighbors?

[514] Whatever it is.

[515] Do it as a family.

[516] Yes.

[517] And then and then detention, institutions.

[518] All right.

[519] So by his early teens, he had been in all these places locked up.

[520] While he's in the Utah State Industrial School in Ogden, Ronnie is visited Pretty good school I think it's like a lockup It's like a juvenile detention school It's juvie Okay Ronnie's visited by A man that his brother is Randy's living with And he's like hey this guy This older dude is great His name's Jack Statt Let's I'm living with him You should live with him too Jack Stack Statt Like immediately Immediately I just say the word You know like the same word I just said.

[521] Yeah, stat, like stat.

[522] Like quickly.

[523] In 1975, so Ronnie moves in with stat and Randy.

[524] And this guy becomes an official foster parent to the boys.

[525] And so Ronnie at the time is saying that of his foster care, it's the most stable period of his life, saying Jack was a good man and he tried to help us out.

[526] Now, again, in this going the same way with the hobo camp, Jack was also molesting them.

[527] And that was still the best home life he's experienced.

[528] So it's just fucking sad.

[529] It's terrible.

[530] He said, I thought life was normal.

[531] I thought that was normal.

[532] And he said he also worked as a sex worker while living with Statt as well.

[533] And he's in his teens?

[534] Yeah.

[535] So then he meets, I don't know what year exactly, but he meets a woman named Deborah Bischoff or a teen.

[536] I don't know how old she was either.

[537] I did my homework.

[538] Um, they meet it in Salt Lake City apartment complex where his mom lives and they fall in love.

[539] Deborah describes Ronnie as very caring.

[540] He never put me through, he never put me in the rough situations he was in throughout his life.

[541] He sheltered me from that stuff.

[542] I feel like we got to get our standards a little higher.

[543] He doesn't punch me in the face.

[544] He doesn't take me along with burglarizing.

[545] He keeps me out of that.

[546] He's never made me sleep in a hobo camp.

[547] Right.

[548] And because of that, I love him so.

[549] In 1977, they have a daughter together, and in 1980, they have a son.

[550] But a month after his son is born, Ronnie is convicted of robbery and sent to the Utah State Prison.

[551] We'll see a picture of him?

[552] Yes.

[553] Good.

[554] Oh.

[555] I mean, I just couldn't not put this photo up.

[556] He looks like Steve in there.

[557] Oh.

[558] not what you expected right neck tats and shit that he's in court so he's like dressed up things but also leaning on your hand leaning on your fist on with your chin like that is step and ray morris to a team oh my god it is that's like how he podcast records and then he and then he puts he reaches his fingers out and then strokes his mustache like i'm not fucking even making this up i'm not even making fun of him i mean i am but i'm but he really does it and then we look over at him and we go to say one thing to him and he goes Steven.

[559] Stephen, we really like you.

[560] You do.

[561] Happy Valentine's Day.

[562] Happy Valentine's Day.

[563] Editing our terrible voices that you're so sick of.

[564] So sick of.

[565] He missed some pizza and these cheese, mozzarella sticks.

[566] They're so bad.

[567] They came with ketchup.

[568] But the sticks themselves were perfect cylinders of mozzarella cheese that was fried.

[569] Frozen.

[570] Like they came out of a box.

[571] Look!

[572] I mean, I'm not judging.

[573] What do you want?

[574] Fucking fresh mozzarella sticks?

[575] No fucking way.

[576] Frozen, old, from somewhere else.

[577] Ketchup.

[578] Hard to eat.

[579] That's what I'm looking for.

[580] I ate all of them.

[581] You're like, do you remember me?

[582] I was eating them alongside you.

[583] I'm not judging these things.

[584] We got a salad and then I ate it with my hand.

[585] That's right.

[586] Why did I do that?

[587] It's kind of how you wrapped up the meal.

[588] It's like how you let everyone know we're done doing this.

[589] It's like I have to eat my quota of Lettuce.

[590] Seven handfuls of lettuce and we're done with dinner.

[591] Okay.

[592] So that's Ronnie.

[593] In August of 1984, while in prison, Ronnie fakes an illness by vomiting.

[594] He didn't have a fake seizure.

[595] There's so many ways.

[596] I mean, but he fakes an illness and he's transported the University of Utah Hospital.

[597] Is that next door?

[598] It's in the basement.

[599] he attacks the transportation officer at that moment and is like fuck this I'm out of here he forces the officer to unlock his shackles by telling him I guess you know that I guess you know if that doctor comes back I'll have to kill you both so he makes him take off his shackles at gunpoint and then in the course of his escape he hits the officer so hard that he needed wires to reconstruct his face fuck yeah so like we're not on his side anymore.

[600] Okay.

[601] All empathy has died.

[602] Yeah, we had him.

[603] Cowboy Boots is a forgivable thing, man. Look, I was relating to him in a very serious way right up until you said the word wire.

[604] I know.

[605] Reconstruct, that's not...

[606] Come on.

[607] That never goes well.

[608] Just escape.

[609] Yeah.

[610] Just fucking escape.

[611] And let people have their face.

[612] Then, so he's like, okay, he got out of the hospital, but he's like, how do I get the fuck out of here?

[613] He finds, a dude, a medical student who's like, hey I'm a medical student and I write a motorcycle and he gets on the back of the motorcycle with the guy holds the gun to his back and is like, get me the fuck out of here as if it's like fucking James Bond or some shit.

[614] Yes.

[615] I have to say I kind of like that because you know that medical student was a cocky motherfucker.

[616] So it's just like, yeah.

[617] How about if we hold the gun to you every once in a while, you son of a bitch?

[618] And if nothing else, he had the coolest story to tell on Monday.

[619] Exactly.

[620] You know what I mean?

[621] Totally.

[622] A, he's the cool doctor who fucking rides a motorcycle.

[623] Which is like if you're a doctor and you're doing that, you don't care about yourself.

[624] That's right.

[625] You're taking your own pills for sure.

[626] Because you see what happens to people who ride motorcycles and fix them.

[627] Their faces need reconstruction.

[628] It's a serious wire situation.

[629] And you're like, I'm going to get one too, though.

[630] That's right.

[631] That's exactly right.

[632] Okay, so...

[633] Well, we've ripped doctors a new one.

[634] And everyone who came here on a motorcycle.

[635] Hi, eh.

[636] It's half the crowd is doctors.

[637] The other half is from a motorcycle club.

[638] They're like, oh, you didn't know this university was a teaching hospital.

[639] Almost everyone here is in medicine in some way.

[640] Well, when I faint, nobody come save me. I'm faking it.

[641] Pop a wheelie.

[642] and just like blaze on out of the parking lot.

[643] Later days.

[644] Bye.

[645] Boop, boop, letter.

[646] Okay.

[647] Bubba.

[648] Okay.

[649] On August 11th, so he gets out of there, and then after he escapes, he puts the firearm gun.

[650] That was copy and I past it.

[651] The gun in and a note into a mailbox.

[652] And in it he writes, here's the gun and the wallet taken from the guard so he gives the wallet back he's like sorry about the face he didn't apologize for that oh um taken from the guard I don't want to hurt no one else I just want to be free so he returns and he's like just not coming back well that's kind of nice right but then please please hold yes okay um all right so he gets he's on October 9th 1984 he's fucked up on cocaine and he goes to a place called Cheers Tavern totally forgot to see if it it's still there.

[653] Oh, like the TV show?

[654] Do you have a Cheers remake here?

[655] I don't know.

[656] Is it?

[657] Is it a fucking clip?

[658] Are Norman Cliff like sitting at the end of the bar?

[659] Animatronic Norman Cliff?

[660] Oh, why isn't that happen yet?

[661] Oh, fuck.

[662] After party at Cheers.

[663] Cheers Tavern.

[664] Oh, my God.

[665] Okay.

[666] Sam Malone's in the balcony.

[667] I'm so excited.

[668] And his mustache.

[669] So he goes.

[670] He goes there to rob the place, right?

[671] What?

[672] He had a mustache.

[673] Sam alone?

[674] He had a mustache.

[675] Are you thinking of the...

[676] You're thinking you have Clip Klaven, the mailman.

[677] Yeah, he had one too.

[678] Girl, don't do this.

[679] Okay.

[680] Where were we?

[681] All right, well, here, let's stop laughing because...

[682] He's fucked up on Coke.

[683] He goes to Rob Chiris Tavern, and he ends up shooting the bartender at Melvin John Otterstrom in the face, killing him.

[684] And Ronnie makes off with less than $100 fucking dollars, too.

[685] Um, then Ronnie goes to fucking Melvin John Otterstrom's funeral and pretends to be a childhood friend.

[686] What?

[687] What a dick?

[688] Like that to me is, is like, crosses the line between like you were fucked up and shot someone and you suck.

[689] But like, it's just so creepy.

[690] It's, no, that's super creepy, sociopath.

[691] Also, how is that the same guy that puts the wallet back in the fucking mailbox and is like, sorry for your troubles?

[692] No, it's, I don't know.

[693] That's, wow.

[694] Here's a photo of, um, of, where did it go?

[695] Oh, that's not the right page.

[696] So, like, basically he went to this guy's funeral and like mingled enough so that he was telling people who he was.

[697] I guess.

[698] Fuck.

[699] Yeah, this is Melvin John Otterstrom.

[700] Uh, boop.

[701] Oh.

[702] Look on Keeney is.

[703] Um, and then, okay.

[704] So, uh, um, okay.

[705] Okay, three weeks later, Ronnie gets captured at the home of his cousin.

[706] And once he's captured, Ronnie says that the shooting occurred because Otters Shrimp put up a fight.

[707] But investigators didn't find any evidence to support that, which I'm like, it's still your fucking fault, dude.

[708] Like, even if he put up a fight for his fucking life, it's still your fault.

[709] Also, you're on Coke.

[710] You don't know what's fucking going on.

[711] That's true.

[712] Like every, you're, no. Ronnie's held in custody.

[713] His getaway driver testifies against him.

[714] So during the trial for this murder on April 2nd, 1985, at the Metropolis, Metropolitan.

[715] That's right.

[716] Fuck.

[717] You got it, though.

[718] Third charm.

[719] Third time is a charm.

[720] Wow.

[721] Because it looks like Metropolis, and then it changed, you know what I mean?

[722] Like, it could go either way in the beginning.

[723] But it's not.

[724] It's Metropolitan.

[725] You know the Metropolis.

[726] You know.

[727] that word I've known for fucking the 37 years I've been on this planet that I just didn't see.

[728] Metropolitan Hall of Justice in Salt Lake City.

[729] So Ronnie gets a smug someone smuggles him a fucking revolver revolver?

[730] Yes.

[731] Revolver at his trial and Ronnie attempts to escape.

[732] He fucking has his gun.

[733] Who did it?

[734] Well, we'll get there.

[735] Okay, okay.

[736] he has his gun he's immediately shot in the chest by the guard Luther Hensley but he continues on his fucking escape with a fucking gunshot wound of the chest Was he still on Coke?

[737] Probably.

[738] He wounds an unarmed bailiff named George Nick Kirk by shooting him in the abdomen and then ran into the courtroom archives where attorneys Rob McRey and Michael Burd are.

[739] So they're just like in the fucking archives being like boop -a -boop let's go and like, we love law.

[740] Let's look at some old ones.

[741] Let's see what we can find about this.

[742] These stories are incredible.

[743] Yeah.

[744] Let's memorize every fucking word.

[745] Yeah.

[746] Like we don't even, we're not even on trial today.

[747] Yeah, we're just loving law.

[748] Yeah.

[749] So, Gardner, Ronnie comes in, points the gun at them and then he aims at Burdell who'd been, he was there looking up shit for his pro Bono work for his church.

[750] So, like, you couldn't be there for, like, a more honest reason.

[751] And Ronnie shoots him in the eye and then runs outside of the building where he's surrounded by dozens of police softener officers.

[752] Police softeners.

[753] Fuck.

[754] Sorry.

[755] But that's a good one.

[756] Police softeners.

[757] It's like...

[758] It's like wool light, but...

[759] For cops?

[760] He drops the gun and yells, don't shoot.

[761] I don't have a gun, but I'm like, neither are the fucking people you just shot?

[762] Yeah, that's right.

[763] You know what I mean?

[764] Sorry, this might be a dumb question.

[765] The guy that he shot in the eye.

[766] You just keep jumping ahead.

[767] Okay.

[768] No more.

[769] No more from me. He dies.

[770] Oh, I know.

[771] Sorry.

[772] But the bailiffs, Nick Kirk, survives.

[773] Okay, good.

[774] However, he dies 11 years later, and his family says it's from complicated.

[775] from the shot, the gunshot wound, which I'm like, yeah, you get shot in the gut.

[776] The rest of your fucking life.

[777] So I think, fuck him.

[778] Fuck Ron, Ronnie.

[779] Yes, for sure.

[780] During a search of the courthouse, then, they find a bag of men's clothing in the basement under a woman's restroom sink.

[781] So someone had come in, stashed some clothing for his getaway.

[782] A woman.

[783] A woman.

[784] And then it's believed that the gun had been taped to a water fountain on the first floor and then passed to Ronnie as he was.

[785] escorted into the courthouse in the underground parking garage.

[786] So they find, they find, they find his girlfriend, Darcy, unarmed and arrested about a mile away.

[787] And her sister, Karma, that's what it says.

[788] She's sentenced to eight years in prison for delivering the clothes and message in preparation for the escape attempt, but they don't know who actually gave him the gun.

[789] So she gets prison.

[790] Okay.

[791] She gets...

[792] This girlfriend's sister goes to prison.

[793] Yeah.

[794] Wow.

[795] Yeah.

[796] That's bullshit.

[797] Right.

[798] So, let's see here.

[799] I think I have a photo of this.

[800] That's him with a beard on.

[801] It's like my dad.

[802] Marty.

[803] Kind of looks like our therapist a little bit.

[804] He does.

[805] Isn't it?

[806] Oh, my God.

[807] Oh, my God.

[808] He totally looks.

[809] like our therapist.

[810] It's intention versus impact.

[811] I hear him saying, what I'm hearing your experiences.

[812] Can you turn to Karen and say that?

[813] No, I hate it's awkward.

[814] That's the best, worst part of our therapy sessions.

[815] If we're like saying something meaningful, and then he'll be like, will you turn to Georgia and say that?

[816] And then I'm like, looking at her is the most repulsive thing in that low my arm.

[817] I'm just like, well, for myself.

[818] We have something to talk about it next week, for sure.

[819] I should have said vulnerable.

[820] Upsetting to me. You should have, but you didn't.

[821] Oh, no!

[822] Strike 19.

[823] Vince, write that down.

[824] Steven.

[825] Stephen, mark that moment.

[826] That's going to be a minisode of just you saying that.

[827] God, that was the worst word I could have used.

[828] I'm so sorry.

[829] I mean, I look pretty fucking ugly when I cry.

[830] No, internal feelings.

[831] Impact.

[832] Got it.

[833] Intent.

[834] Let's take one more look at home.

[835] Oh, yeah.

[836] Here we go.

[837] Calm down a little.

[838] Run, help us.

[839] The grain of the temples.

[840] Well, the thing is, I said this thing.

[841] What did you hear of Georgia when you heard that?

[842] And then I'm like, well, I felt like I was about to faint because I have no air.

[843] Feel how warm I am right now.

[844] Are you?

[845] I really am.

[846] Are you about to...

[847] You're about to fucking faint.

[848] Let's do this thing.

[849] Woo, sweaty.

[850] Boop.

[851] This is a viral moment waiting to happen.

[852] Maybe I'm just embarrassed because of the word, uh, metro, uh, what did I call it?

[853] Metropolitan, I don't remember.

[854] I don't either.

[855] No one else does either.

[856] Nope.

[857] I'm glad they didn't happen.

[858] Okay.

[859] Okay.

[860] Bob, blah, bab, boo, boo.

[861] And then, okay.

[862] So when that, okay.

[863] Okay.

[864] Okay, so Otterstrom was, the guy in the bar was a mountain climber and a veteran of the 19 Special Forces group of the Utah National Guard.

[865] And so is she.

[866] Thank you for your service.

[867] And the other guy, therapist, Burdell, was a Vietnam veteran, a former engineer, and a member of the Summ Church.

[868] Don't know what that is.

[869] And so then, okay.

[870] So they catch him back to, even though he had a fucking shot in his chest, right?

[871] June, 1985, he pleads guilty to the murder of Ostrom.

[872] The jurors deliberate less than three hours and find him guilty of capital murder.

[873] And life without parole isn't possible back then.

[874] They didn't come around until 1992 in Utah.

[875] Oh.

[876] So they, he's sentenced to death, making him then Utah's youngest inmate on death row.

[877] And later, the jurors say that if they had known about his troubled past in his childhood, they maybe just, if they could have given him life sentence, they would have.

[878] But, you know, they couldn't, as I just said.

[879] Okay.

[880] Pay attention.

[881] Stop making me repeat myself.

[882] Article.

[883] Okay.

[884] Here's an insane thing, and this is fucked up.

[885] He's given the choice to how he wants to be executed.

[886] Oh.

[887] You know, it's like, what?

[888] Why do we get that choice?

[889] Why is that?

[890] Just pick your dinner and be quiet.

[891] Yeah.

[892] You got to choose your dinner, but nope, he picks his.

[893] So he says, quote, I'd prefer to die of old age, your honor.

[894] But if that ain't possible, I'll take the firing squad.

[895] Holy fuck.

[896] He is not fucking around.

[897] Fuck.

[898] And he's been shot once already, so he fucking knows what it feels like.

[899] Right?

[900] Like, that's the craziest part.

[901] That doesn't feel good, probably.

[902] No. I've never.

[903] He wouldn't want to go back to that.

[904] And yet.

[905] And yet?

[906] He was just like, wow.

[907] That's nuts.

[908] So, since 1976, only two other people have been executed by firing squad of the United States, both in Utah.

[909] What?

[910] I wouldn't share for the...

[911] I'm kidding, I would.

[912] Gary Gilmore and John Albert Taylor.

[913] But this guy, Taylor, chose the firing squad to embarrass the state.

[914] But Ronnie said that he just didn't want to attract attention.

[915] He just preferred that way to die.

[916] Wow.

[917] So he got in a lot of trouble in prison.

[918] What?

[919] On October 20th, 1987, okay, he's in the prison -in -visiting area.

[920] There's a glass partition between him and the woman he's talking to.

[921] He fucking breaks the glass partition.

[922] What?

[923] Then they somehow gets over the partition, I hope.

[924] And he and the woman have sex, like, through the broken partition, while the fucking other inmates cheered and barricaded the doors.

[925] The fucking woman is his half -brother's wife.

[926] What?

[927] What the fuck?

[928] Shit, you talk.

[929] What is Christmas like?

[930] What is the Thanksgiving conversation that year?

[931] My first question is, let's talk about that glass.

[932] Yes.

[933] I hope, that's what I'm saying, I hope, they jumped over it somehow and didn't have sex on it.

[934] That's the least of my, the worries.

[935] They used to be just a very thin pain of Tiffany -stained glass between the prisoners and their guests.

[936] That's insanity.

[937] Well, up gun, the glass starts boning his fucking sister -in -law, and the rest of the prisoners like, hell yeah.

[938] And fucking crazy, right?

[939] We're, like, that must have been, like, the hottest, like, prisoner phone call through that glass.

[940] Yeah.

[941] And they're like, how was Thanksgiving?

[942] That was your fucking Thanksgiving.

[943] Is the question I want to ask you.

[944] Yams?

[945] Were there yams?

[946] Oh, yes.

[947] I mean, fuck, right?

[948] Literally.

[949] Then on September...

[950] Oh, yeah.

[951] Then on September 25th, 1994, so he's still alive.

[952] He gets drunk from alcohol that he had made in his prison...

[953] Toilet?

[954] No, thank God.

[955] Sink.

[956] Which is like, yeah, right.

[957] That's what you told people.

[958] And he stabs another inmate, Richard Fats Thomas, with a shiv that he had made from a pair of sun.

[959] Also, prisoners have sunglasses?

[960] You still got to be cool.

[961] I guess.

[962] You got to protect those peepers.

[963] That's right.

[964] The UV rays up here are insane.

[965] They'll get you.

[966] The air's thin.

[967] This dude suffers nine puncture wounds to the face, mouth, arm, and chest that are life -threatening, but he makes a full recovery.

[968] So he's having a good time in prison, it seems like.

[969] He's really criminaling it up.

[970] Yeah.

[971] Okay, cut to June 18th, 2010.

[972] 2010, like the year that that murder happened.

[973] That fucking year.

[974] That's your favorite year for murder.

[975] It's so sneaky.

[976] Oh, here's him like, oh, that's the, okay, well, Stephen put these in the wrong.

[977] Fucking order.

[978] Stephen?

[979] Oh, now I'm scared that.

[980] It's Stephen's fault you were pronounced Metropolitan that way.

[981] Metropolitan, what did I say?

[982] I don't remember.

[983] Well, Metropolitan.

[984] Metropolis.

[985] Metropolis.

[986] Thank you for.

[987] Metropolis.

[988] It's so good.

[989] I don't want to, I have a picture of him, like, back, like, in 2010, but I'm scared that Stephen left one of those photos out, and I don't want to go to your picture.

[990] Everyone close your eyes real quick.

[991] I think you just put it in the wrong order.

[992] Should I do it?

[993] Who cares?

[994] Okay, which part?

[995] I don't even know what mine are.

[996] Just go ahead.

[997] Okay, there he is.

[998] Oh, no, you've ruined my thing.

[999] No, no, that's Ronnie.

[1000] Bring Ren back up.

[1001] I have some complaints.

[1002] Our therapist is named Ren, you guys.

[1003] Okay, so, boop.

[1004] I'm sorry, can you go back really quick?

[1005] He looks like Matt Walsh, the guy on Veep.

[1006] Oh, he does look like Matt Walsh.

[1007] Look at him.

[1008] Think about it.

[1009] HBO if you have to.

[1010] Oh, God, yeah.

[1011] It's Matt Walsh.

[1012] Veep.

[1013] All right.

[1014] So, finally, in 2010, Ronnie is now 49 years old.

[1015] it's been a quarter of a century that he's been on death row which is a long fucking time well it's 25 years finally but he I'm going to ignore that Wren I'm going to ignore you finally he's fucking on June 18th 2010 he's eliminated okay wait let me tell you something no no no no no no I read that wrong but by 2004 Utah had eliminated the firing squad there it is there it is there is there is someone in this audience who is not a fan of the show oh my god doesn't know what's happening and it's like this is fucking wrong yeah what's happening is wrong I'm dizzy right now so I'm going to blame everything on that this podcast great um they so Utah was like maybe we shouldn't let's eliminate the firing squad by 2004 as a method of execution but convicts who were sentence before that date, are still allowed to have that option.

[1016] If they want to pick it.

[1017] Yeah.

[1018] So they're like, you can, like it doesn't retroactively, they're not like.

[1019] They're grandfathered into being shot.

[1020] I get it.

[1021] Exactly.

[1022] What?

[1023] You know you're in charge and you can change that, right?

[1024] No. This isn't some weird movie where you have to get shot this way.

[1025] Yeah.

[1026] So just after midnight, five anonymous executioners, they're behind a curtain.

[1027] and a ported brick wall.

[1028] Don't know what that is.

[1029] Ported?

[1030] Ported.

[1031] One rifle had a blank round, so no one would be like, it was me, you know what I mean?

[1032] They didn't know.

[1033] He is pronounced dead at 12, 17 a .m. And after he was executed, the daughter of one of the victims said, I hope my sister, who just passed away, and my father, and all of the other victims are waiting for his sorry ass.

[1034] I hope they get to go down after him.

[1035] are you allowed to do that can you go back and forth i feel like we're i feel like we're about to write the new marvel movie oh yeah i'll pull you out of hell something like that we're gonna go down after him they're gonna go shit out they're gonna beat him up in hell yeah they're like we're hanging out in heaven it's great up here let's do a fucking quick tourist this is my laminate i get to go back up when this is done we're just gonna you're just gonna kick some assholes ass really quick Yeah.

[1036] And then we get to go back.

[1037] No, no, no, I don't stay.

[1038] I'm not staying here.

[1039] I was good.

[1040] I hope they get a go down after him.

[1041] Fuck.

[1042] Yeah.

[1043] And that's the story of fucking Ronnie Lee Gardner.

[1044] Wow.

[1045] Thanks.

[1046] I told you he was a dick.

[1047] So it was a real like roller coaster though with that guy.

[1048] It was.

[1049] I mean, I don't know.

[1050] You were here, you were there, you were here, then you were back there.

[1051] It's always very complex with these stories.

[1052] They are.

[1053] You know, it's an emotional roller coaster.

[1054] It really is.

[1055] A metropolitan size.

[1056] Almost the size of a metropole.

[1057] I just start using that word incorrectly because I just want to prove that I know how to say it.

[1058] You're like looking at a charcutory board.

[1059] You're like, is this metropolitan?

[1060] Cheese?

[1061] Pull it out anywhere.

[1062] My story tonight is one of my classic.

[1063] It was an episode of I survived.

[1064] As most of us do, I have all of mine on my DVR, and I was laying on my couch for 19 hours the other day and not taking care of things.

[1065] And this episode rolled up, and they were like Salt Lake City, Utah.

[1066] And then I was just like, my homework.

[1067] Yeah.

[1068] And you're like, I have to sit here.

[1069] That's the best.

[1070] This is working.

[1071] This just turned into borderline clinical depression.

[1072] now I'm at work.

[1073] That's how easy it is.

[1074] It's the best.

[1075] In the podcast world.

[1076] When there's a podcast about the murder, you're going to do that week, and you're like, I got to clean my bathroom instead of just sitting in front of my computer.

[1077] Yes.

[1078] I have a weird way of enjoying myself.

[1079] I mean, cleaning my toilet.

[1080] So, it is satisfying, though.

[1081] Do you ever use one of those bleached, like, things you stick in the back of the toilet and then the water is just bleachery all the time?

[1082] No. Get into it.

[1083] They're the best.

[1084] You know every once while you just have like a ring of mold?

[1085] We were like, what's coming out of me?

[1086] This is, I'm disgusting.

[1087] No. Well, I mean, not like a, not crazy.

[1088] It's just you see it forming where you're like, is something off?

[1089] Something's going on.

[1090] Something's happening.

[1091] Just get one of those fucking chlorox bleach pills or whatever they're called.

[1092] Do you take, you swallow it?

[1093] Yep.

[1094] Got it.

[1095] Okay, I'll do it.

[1096] Karen told me to take a bleach pill and then I wouldn't have mold coming out of you anymore.

[1097] It looks kind of like a big sweet tart.

[1098] If you put it on some...

[1099] An avocado toast.

[1100] It's really delicious with a fried egg on top.

[1101] Just get some, like maybe a coconut oil on top.

[1102] So it just absorbs the intense chemicals.

[1103] Where were we?

[1104] No idea.

[1105] We are...

[1106] In the Metropolis.

[1107] Definitely hallucinating at this point.

[1108] Okay.

[1109] So, but then, so I watch it, it's great.

[1110] Then, good old Steve Raymore.

[1111] Morris sends me a 2020 episode about the same story, which of course is more in depth and actually has reenactors, which is the greatest.

[1112] And so now I'm going to retell you a 2020 episode like I used to retell you I survived episodes.

[1113] This is plagiarism.

[1114] It's like a mashup.

[1115] That's right.

[1116] That's right.

[1117] It's like a layer cake where my knowledge began on an episode of I survived folded in the 2020 and now this is just like we're all at the campfire together and I'm like remember TV okay listen to this you eat is the cake at the campfire yeah okay good yeah we get to have cake uh -huh and bleach pills it's going to be the best camp out ever it is the salt lake city library hostage crisis do you remember you guys had a library hostage crisis dude did they fucking ever First of all, let's just take a look at the Salt Lake City, Public Library, Circa, whenever Stephen found this picture.

[1118] Let's see.

[1119] This is the old branch, I believe.

[1120] Is that correct?

[1121] It's the old branch.

[1122] It looks old.

[1123] That's just the colors.

[1124] That's so 70s.

[1125] Look at that poor building on stilts.

[1126] The building's like, what do you expect from me?

[1127] You couldn't just put me on the ground?

[1128] The architect's like, we're pinning all of our hopes on you.

[1129] Oh, man. This says future learning.

[1130] The Salt Lake City Public Library is a five -story building.

[1131] So on Saturday, March 5th, 1994, it wasn't black and white.

[1132] It was the early 90s.

[1133] So it was like a sepia tone.

[1134] Yeah.

[1135] Kind of.

[1136] With like neon spray paint, fake graffiti on the bottom.

[1137] and tilt it to the side.

[1138] Yep.

[1139] Very beach house.

[1140] So there's hundreds of people at the library on Saturday.

[1141] And people there for obviously all different kind of reasons.

[1142] Like what?

[1143] Well, you know, reading, being quiet, sleeping.

[1144] Free coffee, maybe?

[1145] Do they serve coffee?

[1146] Some of them do.

[1147] No, I bet they don't do that, right?

[1148] Probably not here.

[1149] Probably not here.

[1150] Because you don't want to spill coffee.

[1151] Oh, sure.

[1152] Free water?

[1153] I don't know.

[1154] Oh, and they're not allowed to have water.

[1155] No. We're teasing you.

[1156] Salt Lake City's like, that's not us, man. That's not us.

[1157] So there's a couple there, Michael and Judith Greer, and they came down to the library because there was a Tibetan Mandala ceremony being done that day.

[1158] And that's, you know, that's your favorite.

[1159] Yeah.

[1160] It's my favorite kind of ceremony.

[1161] Right?

[1162] Of all library ceremonies.

[1163] You guys need to try one one day.

[1164] Top three.

[1165] Top three.

[1166] So it's the Tibetan monks who are putting colored sand blowing, they're like scraping and blowing colored sand into this almost as beautiful as this rug design at the library.

[1167] How fucking badass is that?

[1168] I love it.

[1169] Those are the kind of events that they have.

[1170] Because it's culturally open to every They're like, check out what happens.

[1171] Check, is that the tab?

[1172] Check out what happens.

[1173] Oh, my God.

[1174] Who's a librarian here?

[1175] Use that tagline.

[1176] Take it to your meeting on Monday.

[1177] You have a meeting on Monday?

[1178] Take it.

[1179] It's yours.

[1180] To the librarians' union meeting?

[1181] Take that down there.

[1182] You're going to get a raise.

[1183] I bet they've never used the pun, check it out at the library before.

[1184] I bet it's never happened with a big check mark.

[1185] so the grears are there watching this beautiful sand ceremony and also there's of course Gwen page who's been a librarian is Gwen Gwen are you here Gwen was in the I survived and in the 2020 so you know she is a key fucking player in this story she is just bouncing around she is a lifelong dedicated librarian in the most hush toned way you can be She's like, you can fucking see her readers on a chain.

[1186] She's like, I'll tell you where the book is this time, but you have to find it for yourself the next time.

[1187] You know, Gwen?

[1188] Yeah.

[1189] Okay.

[1190] So she's, you know, reforming the Dewey Decimals.

[1191] Librarians like to get up to.

[1192] And one of her co -worker says, you gotta go see the fucking Mendel ceremony before it ends.

[1193] It's amazing.

[1194] She's like, you're so right.

[1195] So she hauls an ass on up.

[1196] I don't know what we're doing.

[1197] Are you, is this word for word, the 2020 episode?

[1198] This is how they say it on the 2020.

[1199] Oh, shit.

[1200] Look at this.

[1201] There she is.

[1202] Gwen.

[1203] That's when.

[1204] And nice mwaves, a nice mwavs.

[1205] She's doing jewel tones because she knows that that can act like makeup sometimes for you.

[1206] That does, a maroon jacket does the work for you.

[1207] But you gotta have a pop of color.

[1208] But you've got to get a good some nice hot blue, electric blue in there.

[1209] I love her.

[1210] You still love to live.

[1211] Librarian to the Hilt.

[1212] Librarian.

[1213] Stephen paused it right when she was going, shh, shh.

[1214] She does that throughout the interview.

[1215] Just shushing, cameraman, shushing interviewers I'd fucking love that so much the sound guys like I can't I can't with this librarian I'm getting a lot of shushing okay so as Gwen heads up to watch this amazing cool thing that I would love to see in real life and made me cry when I saw it in the thing she notices of course because observe and report librarian style.

[1216] She notices there's this scraggly guy standing by the reference desk.

[1217] He's wearing a backpack.

[1218] He looks real, like, edgy, and she clocks it, but then she's like, I got to go see him in Deliseremonie.

[1219] So she just shushed him really hard and kept on moving.

[1220] Okay.

[1221] She put her shush scent on him to, like, mark him for later.

[1222] Yes.

[1223] It was just a little yellow chalk on his pant leg.

[1224] Come back and shush him later, about a half an hour.

[1225] We're going to reveal all the library secrets tonight.

[1226] I know.

[1227] They're so mad right now.

[1228] There's so many.

[1229] Shh.

[1230] So she passes this way.

[1231] This is the way they set it up on 2020.

[1232] I bet you they didn't all pass like it was a very well choreographed play.

[1233] But she passes him and then this scraggly guy turns to the man standing next to him and pushes a man. envelope like onto his chest and goes I need you to mail this uh mail this for me um uh give this to the papers have a nice life mine's going to be short and then he turns around and pulls out a gun and then he pulls out a curling iron what and then he jumps on a table and he yells uh everybody listen up this is a bomb he holds the curling iron up this is a bomb nobody move if I let go of this switch this whole place blows up so it was what they call a dead man switch he's literally holding open a curling iron so if he lets it go that's when the bomb goes off so that if anything happens to him everybody dies that's like his insurance do you think everyone laughed at first because they're like look at he's joke that guy's joking I can see the cord of that curling iron sir that's curling irons aren't bombs okay I would know um fuck yeah okay so and then he's and he's kind of like obviously people uh he you know the guns like this the curling irons up like this everybody probably 10 feet and back are just like goodbye and they piece out of there as quickly and in as organized fashion as possible I'm sure down four escalators oh man Five -story library.

[1234] That's the worst escape room as an escalator.

[1235] Yeah, because it's just so slow.

[1236] You have to stand there.

[1237] Escaping, escaping, escaping.

[1238] Almost there.

[1239] We have almost escaped music.

[1240] Really nice music playing behind you.

[1241] Watch your shoelaces.

[1242] And then someone's like, my shoelaces at that time.

[1243] That's the only way anybody gets caught is if their shoelace gets stuck in it.

[1244] Oh, I just do want to say that, so the bad guy.

[1245] This is the reenactor from 2020.

[1246] Stephen could find no pictures of the actual bomber, Clifford Draper.

[1247] But this guy, this reenactor actually does a very good job.

[1248] He has very large eyes, so he's scary.

[1249] They have a lot of brown eyeliner around his eyes.

[1250] And he's doing a very realistic, crazy person who, you know, somebody that's like on the edge that's in public, but like people aren't noticing him but you're like but there is something up with that guy and then boom he's up on the table okay and you know they then there has to be like whispering to yourself and all this kind of stuff and i was like oh this is going to be cheesy as fuck well it wasn't this guy did a fucking great job his name did you i mdb him yes i did his name is uh michael b woods and um you've seen him yes oh my teeth uh he's cute you've seen him on uh empire you've seen he's had a two -episode character arc on Chicago PD.

[1251] He's one of your favorite actors.

[1252] He's not, he's not just a crazy guy in the library reference desk with a curling iron.

[1253] And he really fucking held this 2020 together.

[1254] It was all of him.

[1255] Emmy.

[1256] So much pressure.

[1257] Can they do an Emmy from before?

[1258] What do they call it when they're like?

[1259] A retroactive Emmy.

[1260] Metro -Pocter.

[1261] A Metroactive run.

[1262] Emmy.

[1263] A Metropractic.

[1264] A Metro.

[1265] Yeah, they do those.

[1266] Cool.

[1267] Especially for reenactors.

[1268] Okay.

[1269] So anyway, keep your eye peeled from Michael B. Woods in the future.

[1270] I'm just saying I'm calling it now.

[1271] He's just got range, people, An eyeliner looks great on him.

[1272] I like when you can do the whole eye.

[1273] You can surround the whole eye and it still doesn't look small.

[1274] Oh.

[1275] I mean, that means you have great, big eyes.

[1276] I keep hitting my eyes.

[1277] face with a microphone.

[1278] You're a drug.

[1279] Okay.

[1280] I told you about the dead man switch, and I'm not going to say it again.

[1281] Meanwhile, over in the sheriff's administration building, a sheriff's office administration building, which was nearby, there is a man named Lieutenant Lloyd Prescott who's gone in in the 2020, he goes, I went in to use the computer on the weekend.

[1282] to use the computer.

[1283] What did he look up?

[1284] It was just like a ton of solitaire.

[1285] So he's in using the computer in basically kind of an empty building.

[1286] And this guy runs in from the library and he's just like, hey, anyone can somebody help me?

[1287] And so Lloyd Prescott gets out and is like, did you guys call the cops?

[1288] And they're like, yes.

[1289] But there's a guy with a live bomb in the library and he's taking hostages.

[1290] and so Lloyd Prescott grabs his gun he's wearing it on the seat next to him he's in a car inside the office let me just grab this or like at the computer next to him he'd like rested it yeah he just had it right against the mouse he grabs his gun in the 2020 he knocks his coffee cup over onto his badge that didn't fucking happen they're just trying to show you he's a sheriff.

[1291] And he runs into the library where hundreds of people are running out, Lloyd Prescott runs in.

[1292] That's how, yeah, he's a cop.

[1293] That's right.

[1294] That's how you know he's a cop.

[1295] They run at the danger.

[1296] And they have guns.

[1297] So as he's running in, and I also, this seems a bit fateful, and so it could have been for the show, but basically there, he runs into the guy that Clifford Draper had given that Manil envelope to say, go mail this for me. And the guy stops him and says, don't go in there.

[1298] There's a guy with a bomb and a gun.

[1299] And he says, I know I'm a police officer.

[1300] Is anybody hurt?

[1301] And the guy says, I don't know, but he did give me this envelope to mail.

[1302] And so Lloyd goes, I will take this from you.

[1303] Thank you.

[1304] You might want to go ahead and use the elevator real, I mean, escalator real quick.

[1305] And get out of here.

[1306] Damn, that could have been so funny.

[1307] And he, so, meanwhile, back upstairs, they're having this conversation.

[1308] And the bomber is telling people that he wants all the people who have basically been frozen in this area in front of him.

[1309] He starts looking at people and going, go into that conference room and picking people out specifically.

[1310] So Michael Greer, the guy that is from the very beginning who's, it was his idea first to go watch the Mandala ceremony.

[1311] with his wife Judith.

[1312] He looks at Michael Gere and says, you go in, but not Judith.

[1313] So he has to go into this conference room.

[1314] And leave his wife behind?

[1315] Yes.

[1316] Oh, no. Yes.

[1317] And so he goes in and several other people, obviously.

[1318] And then he tells Gwen, go get me 16 people.

[1319] I want 16 people in that conference room.

[1320] And Gwen's like, sounds great.

[1321] But in her mind, you know the wheels.

[1322] are turning.

[1323] So she goes into this conference room and she's like, and it's the, there's a meeting of the toastmasters in the conference room.

[1324] The people who, they do speeches and they practice speeches.

[1325] Oh, you weren't, no, I don't, what?

[1326] Yeah, it's a real thing.

[1327] Oh, it's like a club you can join.

[1328] Oh, like a toast.

[1329] Yep.

[1330] A toast master.

[1331] Did you think bread toast?

[1332] We've been talking about avocado toast 10 minutes ago.

[1333] I thought you were going, I thought that that's what you meant.

[1334] Toastmasters, we're so fucking good at making toast.

[1335] That's our new Food Network show.

[1336] Just tons of toast.

[1337] Evenly colored.

[1338] Perfectly buttered.

[1339] Crust to crust.

[1340] Jam?

[1341] Or fucking almond butter?

[1342] You don't know and it's not up to you.

[1343] It's none of your business.

[1344] We're the toastmasters, motherfuckers.

[1345] So there's a room filled with toast.

[1346] And Gwen goes in.

[1347] Bold as brass.

[1348] and Gwen's like you guys let me quickly interrupt your dumb fucking meeting there's a guy with a bomb out there and that's not a word for word and in this room luckily there was a different door than the entrance door there was like a weird back door so of course they're like let's toastmaster the fuck out of here and they open that door people start going out out so all these people are escaping and then Clifford Draper, the bomber, runs in.

[1349] He's like, stop, shut that door.

[1350] So he shuts the door.

[1351] They end up a total of, I believe, 10 people altogether, so end up in the room.

[1352] He doesn't get his 16, which I do agree is a better number, but it's just how it worked out.

[1353] So Okay.

[1354] So he makes them all sit at the conference room table, but he makes them turn their chairs out so that they can't look at each other.

[1355] And he keeps screaming, don't look at me over and over.

[1356] And he's just doing this with a gun, the entire, just constantly, bomb gun.

[1357] So everyone is just obviously insanely freaked out.

[1358] so our guy Lloyd Prescott walks into the conference room so there he had called I think he had called like two other women in like get in here you have to get in here right now and Lloyd Prescott cuts them off walks into the room and holding up the manila umma gop's envelope and goes what am I supposed to do with this and then he turned and then he shuts the door behind him so that the people who are supposed to go into the room, don't go in.

[1359] He cuts them off.

[1360] And then, of course, the bomber's just like, what, who are you?

[1361] And he's freaking out or whatever.

[1362] He's like, I said that was supposed to be mailed.

[1363] And he was like, could you stop pointing that gun at me?

[1364] I just, I don't even know.

[1365] And he's just playing it real low key.

[1366] So he's not coming in in any way cop style.

[1367] He's like, someone just handed me this envelope.

[1368] What am I supposed to do?

[1369] He pretended like he didn't know why he was in there.

[1370] Yes, insane.

[1371] So, so then the, um, the The bomber tells Gwen, the librarian, to go get him a phone.

[1372] And if she's not back in 15 seconds, he'll kill somebody.

[1373] 15 seconds for a phone in 1994?

[1374] Yes.

[1375] Yes.

[1376] It's not enough time.

[1377] That's very high stress.

[1378] Yeah, because there's no cell phones, kids.

[1379] No, you're going to need a phone.

[1380] Gwen immediately had to think of where's the one phone that has the longest silver cord?

[1381] Yeah.

[1382] That I can just run across this fucking library with.

[1383] Exactly.

[1384] She does it, of course.

[1385] It's Gwen.

[1386] It's Gwen.

[1387] She nails it.

[1388] You're right.

[1389] I don't know why I doubted her.

[1390] Yeah, you can't.

[1391] Shit.

[1392] Do we need to look at her again?

[1393] No, no. Why would you?

[1394] Oh, you want to?

[1395] Wow.

[1396] So relaxing.

[1397] Okay.

[1398] Goodbye.

[1399] Oops.

[1400] Uh -oh.

[1401] It's there forever.

[1402] Now, okay.

[1403] This is how stressful it is.

[1404] All right.

[1405] Uh, uh, uh, uh, okay.

[1406] Um, end of that page.

[1407] The pacing of this is amazing.

[1408] So, oh, he says, he tells, uh, Lloyd tells the bomber.

[1409] He's an accountant, um, and he's just kind of like, playing it small.

[1410] He's like, I spill coffee sometimes.

[1411] I'm just, I'm a numbers guy anyway.

[1412] I don't know how to mail things.

[1413] Um, meanwhile, of course, he's wearing it like a jacket, like a windbreaker and he's got his gun hidden underneath it.

[1414] Um, so then, uh, Draper tells, everybody that he's going to barricade the room he has a lady shut the curtains he does this weird thing where he keeps having people do things for him he's not doing it probably because he's holding a fucking curling iron but um so he he asks one what time they entered the room immediately one's like 10 to 10 and then he sets a timer for 72 hours so he has like this amount of time that he that they're going to do this which is a long fucking time yeah um And in the reenactment, that's when he says, my name's Clifford Draper, let's get some attention.

[1415] I doubt that happened.

[1416] In reality, Clifford Draper was a veteran, and he was a paranoid schizophrenic who had gone off his meds long ago.

[1417] He was originally from Arkansas, but now he lived in a boarding house that was down the street from this library.

[1418] So he gets Gwen to call the police and explain to the police.

[1419] least what's going on.

[1420] So she says, I'm being held hostage in the Salt Lake City Library with nine other people.

[1421] And the police say, we want to connect you.

[1422] We want him to talk to the hostage negotiator.

[1423] And Draper goes, fucking batch it.

[1424] No, no, no. Hang up the phone, screaming, screaming.

[1425] Then he makes Gwen give the phone to Michael Greer.

[1426] And he says, now you're my phone man now.

[1427] So he makes Michael Greer call the local classic rock radio station, Z, Shut up.

[1428] For real.

[1429] Because he's going to take it to the people.

[1430] He's not fucking around with the police anymore.

[1431] Utah?

[1432] Yeah.

[1433] Z -93.

[1434] It's the station everyone at work can agree on.

[1435] Right?

[1436] Because everyone loves Journey.

[1437] So, Michael Greer has to call the radio station.

[1438] It's the weekend DJ.

[1439] So it's somebody who's a part -timer.

[1440] She's just in the reenactment.

[1441] She's got headphones on.

[1442] She's, like, kicking back.

[1443] The most relaxed DJ you've ever seen.

[1444] And she picks up the call and live on the air.

[1445] Michael Greer has to say, I'm being held hostage at the Salt Lake City Library.

[1446] And our hostage taker wants his demands red on the air.

[1447] And the weekend DJ goes, I don't have time for this, and hangs up the phone.

[1448] I mean, who wouldn't?

[1449] You're like, fuck you.

[1450] Teenagers.

[1451] You goddamn teenagers.

[1452] making my DJ life a living hell.

[1453] No, we won't play Devo.

[1454] This is Z -93.

[1455] Classic rock, Led Zeppelin and Led Zeppelin.

[1456] That's right.

[1457] Classic rock block.

[1458] Meanwhile, rock blocks.

[1459] Rock blocks.

[1460] It's a two for Tuesday.

[1461] That's right.

[1462] But it's a weekend.

[1463] This was Saturday.

[1464] What's the Saturday one?

[1465] Several songs.

[1466] songs Saturday.

[1467] There you go.

[1468] There you go.

[1469] Nailed that.

[1470] If you're a DJ, you can take that.

[1471] You can have that, yes, for a nominal fee.

[1472] Meanwhile, across town, Tricia Griffith, who is the program director at Z -93.

[1473] Tricia.

[1474] Tricia, a young lady in the 90s, directing some radio programs.

[1475] Get it.

[1476] Girl.

[1477] Do it.

[1478] She's at breakfast with her friend.

[1479] Uh -huh.

[1480] We call it brunch.

[1481] Was she having toast?

[1482] What kind of toast was she having?

[1483] This was a toast situation.

[1484] She herself had already taken the toast master class.

[1485] So she was like whipping up four different kinds.

[1486] She was like, I'm going to have one slice sourdough and one slice rye.

[1487] Shit.

[1488] It's how we do it.

[1489] Then I am so high off this thin air.

[1490] I can't believe it.

[1491] It's fucked up.

[1492] It's the greatest.

[1493] I totally want to move here.

[1494] All right.

[1495] So anyhow.

[1496] We'll talk about it after.

[1497] Okay, so she gets the call.

[1498] The weekend DJ calls her boss after she hangs up and goes, hey, so this just happened, and now I have a weird feeling about it.

[1499] I don't think I did the right thing.

[1500] I might have fucked up.

[1501] I think I might be on probation.

[1502] I'm in serious DJ trouble right now.

[1503] Trisha drops her fork loudly, runs out of the brunch.

[1504] Spills her coffee.

[1505] But takes her toast.

[1506] Important things.

[1507] Meanwhile, we're cutting back to the conference room now, and this gets super dark, the bomber passes around a legal pad and has everybody write their name down and the name of their next of kin.

[1508] So he's doing a lot of shit like that where he's basically like, here's how I'm going to kill you.

[1509] these are the different like none of us are getting out of here a lot of a lot of shit like that um also there's a woman in in the conference room with everybody who's a diabetic and she's starting to feel the effects she has to take insulin five times a day and she tells him look I'm a fucking diabetic she didn't say fucking and uh I have to take my medicine and he was like well if you didn't bring your medicine then that's on you and someone else in the room is like she could die and he's like well then that's just how it is and then he goes or maybe i'll trade her out for a cop i've always wanted to kill a cop and lloyd prescott's like still an accountant yep loving them numbers too bad i'm an accountant oh april 15th oh hate you so much tax day anyway what are you guys talking about the police Uh, okay, uh, meanwhile, over at the SWAT central.

[1510] Yeah, the Metropolitan SWAT offices.

[1511] Yes.

[1512] Uh, the SWAT sergeant Ken Hansen is prepping for the Hoski restage.

[1513] So the, husky rusts, oxygen, please.

[1514] Are you okay?

[1515] Mommy.

[1516] Mommy.

[1517] The Hosky restage?

[1518] Oh, no. This is just a little husky wrist.

[1519] This is me and then.

[1520] Here she goes.

[1521] There she goes down.

[1522] It's a secret.

[1523] You just start seeing delight to me. Holy fuck.

[1524] I feel all the time.

[1525] Isn't it the worst?

[1526] That's why I was so hot.

[1527] I kept saying stupid shit.

[1528] It really sounded so right.

[1529] I know.

[1530] I feel like it's always been Hoski restage.

[1531] That was fun for me. It wasn't beat.

[1532] Doesn't feel good when it's not you?

[1533] What a goddamn relief.

[1534] Okay.

[1535] Deep breaths.

[1536] Please get serious.

[1537] Deep breaths real fast.

[1538] Is that how you...

[1539] Shallow, fast breaths?

[1540] If you should stand up real quick.

[1541] Yeah.

[1542] And screaming?

[1543] Yeah.

[1544] This made me laugh so loudly when I watched it today.

[1545] So at one point, Draper looks at everybody and goes, I want all of you to strip down.

[1546] Stripped down naked.

[1547] Going to be that kind of party.

[1548] This one girl who has been super like in the reenactment the whole time, she's been like, what?

[1549] She's always the girl they cut to when they want to show people being upset or worried.

[1550] Like, why?

[1551] She's like long hair, very like, you know, like down, you know, the girl next to our face.

[1552] And when he says that, she turns around and goes, I am not doing that.

[1553] That's where she puts her, foot down.

[1554] And then he didn't make them do it.

[1555] What?

[1556] She should have been like, and you're letting us out.

[1557] I cannot tell you how much I would have been that girl.

[1558] And I would have been like, definitely shoot me. I am not taking my pants off in any way at the library with all these nice people around me. Wow.

[1559] I am not doing that.

[1560] You, with your guns and your bombs.

[1561] So awesome.

[1562] So then he just makes them take their jackets off.

[1563] Why?

[1564] Oh.

[1565] Because she is not doing that.

[1566] But he has a gun under his jacket.

[1567] That's exactly right, Georgia.

[1568] I've been listening.

[1569] So, you, like Gwen, have been listening.

[1570] Okay.

[1571] So he makes Gwen, of course, go around and take everyone's jacket from them and then put them in the corner.

[1572] Oh, Gwen has to be the coat girl now?

[1573] Gwen is.

[1574] Co -check girl.

[1575] Gwen's like his gopher a little bit.

[1576] He keeps looking to her.

[1577] And I'm sure she's sitting there because she's probably the whole time looking at him like, is this really what you're doing now?

[1578] He's like, fine, you go get the coats.

[1579] So as she's walking around the outside of the table, when she gets to Lloyd, Lloyd gives her the old, like just a real quick, quick, ding, ding with the eyes, not my coat, and she doesn't miss a beat.

[1580] I encourage everyone in your life.

[1581] Please always look for small, tiny clues.

[1582] that people are trying to fucking give you because what is worse than being the person or experiencing the person where you're like, don't take my coat and they're like, why don't you want me to take your coat?

[1583] Can't you just hand me your coat?

[1584] Oh, man, we've all been in those situations where it's, don't ask me why I don't want to take my shoes off in your house.

[1585] My feet smell.

[1586] I don't want to have to tell you that.

[1587] Yes.

[1588] If I'm telling you something but my eyes are wide, Catch on, God damn it.

[1589] Okay.

[1590] That was just a sidebar of advice.

[1591] Screamed at you angrily.

[1592] Just how I do it.

[1593] I am not doing that.

[1594] So she passes Lloyd.

[1595] Then Lloyd says to Draper, can I leave my coat on?

[1596] I'm cold.

[1597] And Draper, of course, is like, If I take your coat off and loses his shit.

[1598] And so he does it.

[1599] He takes his coat off in this way where he's able to pull, real quick, pull his shirt bottom.

[1600] I was going to say shirt sleeves.

[1601] What else is there?

[1602] I barely caught myself.

[1603] Untuck his shirt.

[1604] The tail of his shirt.

[1605] Pull it out.

[1606] Shirt tails.

[1607] That's right.

[1608] Pulls that out to cover the gun.

[1609] Cool.

[1610] Right in time.

[1611] Okay.

[1612] So, and meanwhile, no one in the room knows that he is a cop.

[1613] No one, everyone is like, we're here with this.

[1614] crazy guy and super Gwen the library and then that's about it.

[1615] And an accountant and that's all we've got.

[1616] And that really cold accountant.

[1617] Why would he risk all of our lives because he's cold?

[1618] I hate his guts.

[1619] What a dick.

[1620] Okay.

[1621] So then he he makes everybody Draper makes everybody read his list of demands.

[1622] He hands him out and he goes like this you this is why I'm doing this and if you read this now you'll understand.

[1623] And then everyone gets it and is like, oh, great, great.

[1624] I mean, a little reason here.

[1625] Uh -oh.

[1626] Because the letter says, among other things, that he will not negotiate.

[1627] He demands to be reinstated into the National Guard.

[1628] Woo!

[1629] He wants a military doctor stripped down to his shorts to come and bring him sedatives and methamphetamine.

[1630] Ooh, that's not a good mix.

[1631] Yeah, it's like a, it's a version of a speedball.

[1632] But at the library, he demands to be paid in gold and platinum bullion, which is badass.

[1633] It's actually, one of the accountant was like, financially, that's actually a set.

[1634] You can't go wrong with platinum bullion.

[1635] It's really, you can take that anywhere.

[1636] And then he demands to be flown to New Zealand, and he wants a full presidential pardon from Bill Clinton.

[1637] So it really bums everybody out as they read it.

[1638] Meanwhile, over at Z -93.

[1639] Okay.

[1640] Cutting back because Tricia Griffith has arrived, and she's like, I'm going to be here now.

[1641] The weekend DJ doesn't have to deal with the hard shit anymore.

[1642] Cut the blues traveler.

[1643] This is fucking happening.

[1644] It's like harmonica.

[1645] Ha -na -na -na -na -na -na -ha.

[1646] Hostage.

[1647] So she sits there and at the, like, DJ, deck.

[1648] She sits there and just in case the hostage the guy.

[1649] The bomber calls back, which he does.

[1650] He's screaming, do not hang up on me. Put me on the air or everybody dies.

[1651] So she had the weekend DJ go call the cops and be like he called once before, what do we do or whatever?

[1652] And the cops had told the weekend DJ tell do not put him on the air but of course Trisha's talking to him and she's like no he's going to kill these people there's no doubt in my mind so she was like I'm going to put him on the air because I don't want these people to die Trisha making decisions she was going full program director on his ass but before she did that which is great she thought I'm going to try one thing so she says to draper on the phone the button to put you on the air is and the engineer won't be back till Monday.

[1653] And he buys it.

[1654] What?

[1655] Because we all know that there's a strip of buttons that light up.

[1656] And if that one is broken, the air isn't there.

[1657] And the engineer is gone.

[1658] The engineer is skiing again, as he does.

[1659] So he buys it.

[1660] He tells her they have less than 72 hours or everyone dies.

[1661] Then he makes Michael Greer call back and read the list of hostage names and next of kin, so that when he kills everybody, she can notify the families.

[1662] Jeez.

[1663] Yes.

[1664] Oh, sorry, you guys like him.

[1665] Did you say you guys like him?

[1666] I totally like him.

[1667] I don't know, he's just nice, and he listens.

[1668] He likes all the same bands as me. like blues traveler who makes the best toast have you ever had Jesus's toast it's very small and round and there is it tastes like glue that's a reference I get it I'm making a Catholic reference body uh huh no it has the face of Jesus burnt toasted into it he has his own never mind he burns his own face into his own toast God bless him literally.

[1669] All right.

[1670] So Clifford is telling Tricia this super fucked up, very upsetting news.

[1671] And Tricia gets this idea.

[1672] And she says, Clifford, can I ask you a question?

[1673] And he says, yes, but he's screaming it or something, waving a gun at the phone.

[1674] And she says, what can I play for you?

[1675] Right?

[1676] So smart.

[1677] It's so smart because music heals the world.

[1678] All right.

[1679] pull out an acoustic guitar play seven Nirvana songs he fucking asked for more deep cuts for them to stop playing the same songs all the time and he asked for less commercials what?

[1680] That's the most reasonable answer I've ever heard.

[1681] It's what we all want from Z93.

[1682] Even never, even off your meds you're like, here's what's going wrong with your fucking radio station.

[1683] I can see this and I'm holding a curling iron in the library.

[1684] Okay.

[1685] Meanwhile, on the other side of the conference table, Sue Ellis and the diabetic is now going into severe, she's entering into diabetic shock.

[1686] Everyone in the room is saying, please let her go.

[1687] He says no way.

[1688] And, oh, so he's, Draper's, getting more and more agitated.

[1689] This is, this is over hours and hours and hours have passed.

[1690] And at one point, he is, he keeps switching hands because he's holding the curling iron open.

[1691] It's like he has to grip it.

[1692] He's been gripping it for hours.

[1693] He's like so bum that he made that his.

[1694] Yeah.

[1695] It's like, couldn't he just said that, you know, you plug it in or something?

[1696] How about a straightener?

[1697] Yeah.

[1698] They just sit there.

[1699] Yeah.

[1700] So he asks Michael Greer, he's like, can you get the duct tape out of my backpack?

[1701] I need to fix the bomb.

[1702] everyone's just like, okay.

[1703] So they're putting pieces of duct tape over the bomb and as oh and then he the next plan is he goes somebody's got to die.

[1704] They need to the police aren't responding the way I want them to we have to figure out who has to die so he tells Gwen to go get this rope he says I'm going to cut this rope into all these different lengths whoever gets the shortest piece dies no yes so Gwen talks about it and she's like she took forever to walk over and get the road she was the slowest walker of all time and then as she she oh she goes to Clifford and says I need how am I going to cut this I can't cut this nurse and scissors in here so he puts the gun down to get the knife out of his backpack yeah and the second second he does that, that's when Lloyd knows this is his fucking time to shine.

[1705] He pulls that fucking gun.

[1706] And so, sorry, but really quick, they talk about this, which I love, he had taken some kind of a bomb class.

[1707] So he knew if the bomb did go off in the room, if everybody was under the table, they could probably, because it's the size of the bomb, and, you know, he's talking about the type that it probably was, that bombs like that, they go off up.

[1708] So if everyone was under the plane of the table, there was a less chance that they would.

[1709] all be injured.

[1710] So he fucking stands up, when he sees that his hands are between weapons, fucking stands up and screams sheriff's office, everybody get down, all the people in the chairs fucking hit the deck, and he shoots Clifford Draper five times.

[1711] I was so exciting.

[1712] I was so excited.

[1713] You like going into your own mic.

[1714] Oh, I thought it was your two.

[1715] No, no, no. God, that was the best visual of like, oh.

[1716] Clunk.

[1717] Does that scare everyone?

[1718] I think it was really good sound effects.

[1719] Oh, my gosh.

[1720] Yes.

[1721] Right as when, so the SWAT team was right outside the conference room door.

[1722] They were like all in it.

[1723] But they were just sitting there like, you know, they don't want that fucking dead man detonator thing to go off.

[1724] so when they hear the gunshots they shoot up at the top of these glass windows that go into the conference room these fucking windows shatter there's like 19 swap people in the room and when that dead man detonator hit it didn't fucking work because he had put too much duct tape on it while he was trying to fix it so by some fucking miracle of real life God that bomb did not go off Wow.

[1725] And everybody lives.

[1726] Yes.

[1727] Except for the terribly mentally ill man who got shot five times.

[1728] Jesus.

[1729] Died on the way to the hospital.

[1730] Sorry.

[1731] I should have.

[1732] I'm sorry I said everybody.

[1733] Can we take that our cheer back?

[1734] I mean, listen.

[1735] All the hostages?

[1736] Shit.

[1737] Um, um, uh, Gwen still works at the Salt Lake City fucking library.

[1738] after party with Gwen and she says this amazing thing at the end of 2020 she's like when bad things happen you can either be a victim or you can be a survivor and I love the library and of course I still work at the library who's just like fucking Gwen in your jewel tones kicking down that knowledge Lloyd Prescott at the end of that 2020 was asked why he went into that conference room at such grave danger to himself And he said, in the police force and in the military, it's your job to risk your life.

[1739] That's why we have cops.

[1740] God bless his soul.

[1741] Very.

[1742] More jewel tones.

[1743] Lloyd.

[1744] Lloyd.

[1745] Man. Hey, Lord.

[1746] What if he and what's her face had fallen in a lot of?

[1747] Mary.

[1748] Gwen and Lloyd across the table.

[1749] That moment where he was like, don't take my jacket.

[1750] She's like, fine, but I'm coming back for you later.

[1751] Boom.

[1752] That's my lifetime movie.

[1753] I'll write it when I get home.

[1754] Shit.

[1755] Right?

[1756] That was amazing.

[1757] Thank you.

[1758] I was with you that entire time.

[1759] That was fucking insane.

[1760] I hit my microphone hard.

[1761] That's how good it was.

[1762] You know, I'd like to think I survived in 2020.

[1763] The people who actually wrote that.

[1764] well now you're one of them that's right do we have time I think so everyone sit down we have rules first there's rules and you need to listen you are talking the whole time so don't put your hand up I got eyes like you wouldn't believe if you would like to tell us your hometown this evening there's a couple things to keep in mind you can't be so drunk that you don't know your own story anymore It says Utah, they're not, they can't.

[1765] It's not, I don't know.

[1766] I'd like to make assumptions.

[1767] Make you feel alien.

[1768] Everybody in the room wants it to be local.

[1769] So don't come up here with your Mississippi bullshit.

[1770] It's what we want.

[1771] It's what everyone wants.

[1772] Local to Utah would be great.

[1773] You know you can't read, but we say that anyway.

[1774] No, don't be reading off of any kind of piece of paper.

[1775] We just want to talk to you.

[1776] We want you to chat it up.

[1777] It's a great idea to keep it to, in your mind, like maybe two paragraphs, because you have to remember that if you get picked, everyone else in the room hates your guts.

[1778] All right.

[1779] Do your thing.

[1780] Can we get the lights up for a second?

[1781] A person.

[1782] Yeah, yeah.

[1783] This blonde lady.

[1784] She's the girl.

[1785] That's Vince.

[1786] You can bring those lights down now.

[1787] Thank you.

[1788] Hi.

[1789] Tully, everyone.

[1790] Hi, what's your name?

[1791] Come over here.

[1792] You have to stand on the carpet or it's bad luck.

[1793] Yeah, we have, isn't it gorgeous?

[1794] You're going to take it home with you tonight.

[1795] Hold the microphone to your thing and there's your pretty necklace.

[1796] Okay.

[1797] Holly, where are you from?

[1798] Ogden, Utah.

[1799] Oh, I talked about that place.

[1800] It's a real place.

[1801] Oh, my God.

[1802] And first I just have to tell you, you got to go see the new library.

[1803] Right?

[1804] Is it the best?

[1805] Can you just give us a quick rundown about the new library?

[1806] Super modern.

[1807] Yeah.

[1808] Glass, wood, elevators.

[1809] All the elements.

[1810] Books.

[1811] Escalators?

[1812] No escalators.

[1813] We're done with those.

[1814] Better for escaping.

[1815] Absolutely.

[1816] Is it nearby?

[1817] Yeah, it's on 400 south?

[1818] Oh, sure.

[1819] Great, perfect.

[1820] It's like two blocks, five to 20 blocks that way.

[1821] Okay, we'll walk.

[1822] You know what?

[1823] Let's go fucking see Gwen tomorrow.

[1824] Oh, wow.

[1825] Two thousand people.

[1826] She's on the list.

[1827] Her last name is Paige.

[1828] books, pages.

[1829] You're killing it already, Holly.

[1830] I'm going to tell you, you have nothing to worry about.

[1831] I took a Xanax.

[1832] What'd you say?

[1833] I took a Xanax.

[1834] A haul, just a Xanax.

[1835] Prescribed by my doctor.

[1836] I took a bit.

[1837] Do you want to be the third member of this plaque?

[1838] I've been dying.

[1839] I mean, I'm like, can we be best friend?

[1840] Yeah, sure.

[1841] We are.

[1842] It's already happening.

[1843] Okay, I'm there.

[1844] Okay, what's your hometown?

[1845] It's really sad.

[1846] So let's bring it down from one.

[1847] where we are.

[1848] Well, why'd you say that Xanax thing then?

[1849] Sorry.

[1850] So, I live in Wyoming right now, but I used to live in San Pete County.

[1851] It's in the center of the state.

[1852] Okay.

[1853] And I went back a year ago to visit my family, my sisters -in -law, and a friend of mine who had moved across the street from my sisters.

[1854] So we had planned to have dinner on Thursday night.

[1855] We got home, Her lights were all off, so we're like, we'll hit her up on Friday.

[1856] That night, we were out chain smoking.

[1857] What?

[1858] What?

[1859] Chain smoking.

[1860] Chain.

[1861] What brand?

[1862] It's kind of embarrassing, but it's camel crush.

[1863] What's that mean?

[1864] You crush it, and then it becomes fucking menthol.

[1865] That's right.

[1866] It's amazing.

[1867] Menthal secrets will kill you immediately.

[1868] That's what I'm going for.

[1869] I'm ready to go.

[1870] No. I'm just kidding.

[1871] They're delicious.

[1872] They're fresh.

[1873] They're not delicious.

[1874] I love them.

[1875] So my friend, Cammy, she was engaged.

[1876] And that night we were outside, and it's wildlife outside.

[1877] There's cows and chickens and cats and all sorts of animals.

[1878] And we heard a lot of noises, and we thought it was just the wildlife.

[1879] and it wasn't.

[1880] It was, it was our friend Cammy, and she got murdered by her fiancé.

[1881] And it was about 100 feet from where we were, and we were right there.

[1882] And I had just started listening to your podcast.

[1883] And I was probably listening to it while it happened because I had gone to sleep at about midnight, and she, the police think it was about 1 o 'clock.

[1884] and it was one of the hardest things in my life but, you know, good things happen, people survive and Cammy was a wonderful person and, you know, her fiancé was arrested the next day he told them that she had been with us and had been in a car accident and walked home and then got in the bath and he got up in the morning and she was dead but he had done it with her.

[1885] hammer and a shovel just it was bad but they knew that right like they knew he was lying yeah yeah yeah yeah we had to answer some questions but yeah it was tough yeah but and i i still feel really guilty about it but you shouldn't feel guilty i mean i get it but yeah how sorry how long ago was this it'll be a year in march oh wow yeah that's tough yeah but i love you guys and I love you guys.

[1886] You get to smoke as many menthols as you want to.

[1887] I'm shaking smoking back to Wyoming.

[1888] Everyone's going to have a menthol cigarette tonight in memory of Cammy.

[1889] Right?

[1890] Yeah.

[1891] Yeah, you have to.

[1892] Cammy, we smoked together.

[1893] We took a smoking cessation class together.

[1894] So we quit smoking together and then we started up again.

[1895] Whoa.

[1896] And you guys crushed it.

[1897] Oh, my God.

[1898] We crushed it.

[1899] Thank you so much.

[1900] for being brave and coming up.

[1901] Thank you.

[1902] They're amazing.

[1903] Holly, everybody.

[1904] Fuck.

[1905] Shit.

[1906] Salt Lake City, thank you for having us.

[1907] Thank you.

[1908] Thank you for...

[1909] It's you.

[1910] Is it a picture?

[1911] It's a painting.

[1912] I guess it's too late to ask that question.

[1913] We'll ask tomorrow night.

[1914] I mean, I'm high as a goddamn kite.

[1915] I don't know what's happening.

[1916] This was such an amazing show, you guys.

[1917] Thank you for being so smart.

[1918] Thank you for being fucking so on it that you sold out tomorrow night's show and demanded this show.

[1919] What a fucking honor.

[1920] That's crazy.

[1921] It's...

[1922] Yeah.

[1923] We appreciate your support so much.

[1924] We can't believe we get to do this with our lives.

[1925] It's insanity.

[1926] And we're not just high in saying that.

[1927] We really mean it.

[1928] No, that's sincere.

[1929] And we love the community that you guys have built and we're so stoked that we get to be part of it.

[1930] So thank you guys so much for for supporting us.

[1931] Yeah.

[1932] Being badasses.

[1933] It's so fun.

[1934] It's so fun to watch you guys come out here.

[1935] It's so fun to watch you guys meet each other and become friends with each other and like build a community where we can talk about the hardest fucking things that happen to people in the world and still be okay.

[1936] I think that's kind of a big thing that happens with this podcast that we didn't plan.

[1937] And of course, we were just like, let's read true crime stories to each other.

[1938] And something really beautiful and magical is happening with you guys, and you're making it happen.

[1939] So thank you.

[1940] It's an honor to us what you guys are doing, honestly.

[1941] So stay sexy.

[1942] Yeah.

[1943] And don't get that.