#1087 - Sturgill Simpson

[0] How long is it going to take me to get to LAX and what time should I be there?

[1] If you leave at 2, you have no problems at all.

[2] Okay.

[3] No problems.

[4] If you leave at 2, you're just going to coast in.

[5] Are we live?

[6] We're trying to figure out L .A. traffic, ladies and gentlemen.

[7] You've got to plan for that shit.

[8] You do, man. Like a natural disaster.

[9] In many ways.

[10] Very similar.

[11] When I moved to Colorado for just a few months and then came back here, it was instantaneous, like, the recognition of, like, what effect it has on me. You know, like, there's so many people.

[12] You're driving.

[13] Like, when you go somewhere where there's very few people, there's a real feeling of relaxation.

[14] Like, it's legitimate.

[15] It's real.

[16] Yes.

[17] Yeah, it's almost like if you could buy that, like, yeah, man, I'm taking this gum that puts you in like a small town feel.

[18] Like a woodsy, Colorado feel, going through evergreen, looking at the mountains.

[19] You can buy that.

[20] You just have to get out of California.

[21] Yeah, no, for sure.

[22] But I was just thinking if you had to.

[23] a pill a pill that did that that would be a really expensive pill or a patch or some gum you know nicotine gum some some you know peace and quiet gum transport you to the wilderness how much put people pay for that right like think about the people that buy Xanax and shit and just anything just take a little bit of the edge off just take this edge off I don't know I would uh I'd probably just buy it and smoke it yeah I smoked the shit out of right but then would you'd be happy like living in downtown L .A. and some graffiti -covered building hearing the horns go off constantly.

[24] I love the weather here.

[25] I do.

[26] I think that's why I have to come out for work or anything else.

[27] I never mind because every day it's perfect.

[28] Except I've been here for like four days and it's rain most of the time.

[29] So it's my luck.

[30] But the traffic, man, just basically, I think you just sort of accept that you're going to live in your car, right?

[31] You're going to be in your car a lot.

[32] Everybody has nice cars.

[33] That's why everybody drives nice cars in L .A. It's also because we're all really, really shallow.

[34] We want to show everybody.

[35] Like, look what I got, bitch.

[36] You know, there's a lot of that.

[37] I like cars.

[38] I do, too.

[39] It's okay.

[40] I think about your song when I drive my Bronco.

[41] You got a really nice Bronco.

[42] I unfortunately no longer have a Bronco.

[43] You need a Bronco in your life, man. Yeah, but then I'd have a second car.

[44] It took me five years just to buy my first car.

[45] Yeah, you're one of the minimalist type characters.

[46] It doesn't want to admit they're successful.

[47] I understand.

[48] No, I got no problem admitting that.

[49] I just, you know, I look around, like, I've always, I think it's from living out of a bag, most of my adult life.

[50] Right.

[51] And you start, you know, I got, I had one guitar for the first two or three years I was on the road.

[52] Wow.

[53] And then one day you wake up and you have five guitars now.

[54] Do you have a thing where do you're trying to make your guitars?

[55] I don't really need all these guitars, you know?

[56] I only need that one, maybe two guitars is good, so.

[57] But I feel like guitar makers must want to get you a guitar.

[58] Does that happen with musicians?

[59] Yeah, actually.

[60] I got one Martin made for me, and that's kind of an honor, obviously.

[61] That's amazing.

[62] Yeah, the old, really old historic legacy company.

[63] But then, yeah, your buddies build them and that kind of.

[64] Most I've always made my own out of parts.

[65] Really?

[66] Like at least telecasters and stuff.

[67] You can buy parts and assemble them just as good as anything coming out of like a custom shop might be for a fraction of the cost.

[68] Wow, I didn't know that was a thing.

[69] And maybe even build an instrument that is, you know, more comfortable to play because you're building to the exact specifics that maybe somebody doesn't mass manufacture.

[70] Well, I guess if you know guitars as well as you know them and you've been around them your whole life, that totally makes sense.

[71] Like, it's wood and parts, right?

[72] If you know how to.

[73] Telecaster's basically this table bolted to a baseball bat cut in half.

[74] You know what I mean?

[75] It's hard to fuck that up.

[76] So the rest of it's just electronics and the pickups have a lot.

[77] And anything outside of that's just your fingers and who's actually holding the thing.

[78] But like to build one is not that complicated.

[79] Wow.

[80] No, Les Paul or a Martin acoustic guitar, that's literally like a hand -shaped piece of work that has to be made from start to finish, whereas, you know, the guitars I'm talking about building, you're just assembling.

[81] There's, like, parts that are widely accessible.

[82] I have a buddy that's a classical guitarist.

[83] That's an art. That's a whole other thing.

[84] He always had his nails grow long when he do jujitsu.

[85] Dimitri, shout out to my friend, Dmitri DeCenko.

[86] He had to tape over his fingernails.

[87] Like when he did jiu -jitsu, because he had claws.

[88] He didn't claw bitch his eyes out.

[89] He had, he had ridiculous long nails and powerful nails, too, because he strummed with his nails.

[90] Like, that's what he did.

[91] Like, he did everything he did with his fingers.

[92] He's amazing at it.

[93] I mean, just freaky amazing.

[94] You'd watch him play, and he'd be like, holy shit.

[95] Yeah.

[96] You know, saw him play live a bunch of times.

[97] He would do, like, people would hire him to do, like, parties and shit.

[98] But it's like a, it's an art form that, for what.

[99] whatever reason.

[100] I don't think it's the kind of respect that it deserves.

[101] No, Flamenco and classical guitar players, that's a highly complex musician ship.

[102] Yeah, and so he would always explain to me like guitars, like how they were constructed.

[103] And it's amazing to me that there he is.

[104] That's Dimitri.

[105] That dude was the heavyweight on the Taekwondo team that I was on when I was like a lightweight.

[106] I was like 155 pounds and he was fighting heavyweight.

[107] That dude used to fuck people up.

[108] He's got those crazy Ukrainian jeans, where he's just got giant hammers.

[109] He's chicken picking there.

[110] That's like...

[111] Oh, he's a bad motherfucker.

[112] Yeah.

[113] Now, I don't know shit about guitar.

[114] I know what sounds awesome, and I know that sounds awesome.

[115] But to you, it's a person who plays guitar.

[116] That's country guitar.

[117] That's like, he's what we call chicken picking.

[118] What he's doing on that classical guitar.

[119] It's pretty cool.

[120] He might as well be on Lower Broadway right now.

[121] He's a bad motherfucker.

[122] Yeah, he's a bad motherfucker.

[123] For sure.

[124] And was Massachusetts State Tike Window Heavyweight Champion.

[125] He also doesn't make silly faces.

[126] I like that.

[127] He went on to compete after I stopped competing.

[128] He competed at a really high level nationally.

[129] Like, fought in some big national tournaments.

[130] So when he puts that guitar down, he's still a bad motherfucker.

[131] He's a bad, that's a legit bad motherfucker.

[132] He's a big boy, too.

[133] Like, he's a natural 220.

[134] Like, the big Ukrainian rock people, they're just thicker people.

[135] They're rock people.

[136] They can pick rocks up and shit.

[137] Then on top of that, unbelievable guitarist.

[138] Crazy.

[139] How do you know him?

[140] We used to do Taekwondo together when we were kids.

[141] Kids, okay.

[142] We started out together.

[143] I was like, I think he's a year younger than me. So I think I was like 15 or 16 when we met.

[144] And he was like 14?

[145] Was he like eight hours a day sitting home with his guitar?

[146] Oh, it's fucking discipline, man. I don't know if it's discipline so much.

[147] I think everybody that plays music and that really gets into it that heavy.

[148] There's like it's an OCD.

[149] you have to have a level of spectrum or to sit and just do the same thing over and over repetitively eight 10 hours a day especially as a kid when you're really learning you like when it gets you and you hook into it it's like you just this is this other thing that nobody else can be a part of you know what I mean I get it as an outsider I get it it's like you can do something and once you start doing it it must feel amazing be doing it well yeah yeah I think well I mean I played soccer and stuff when I was a kid but it was always always like I've never was one of those guys that the team thing yeah it's always just like introverted and so when I found really found guitar and got into it is like oh this is something I can it's not a competition it's not uh you know other than what you what you're pushing yourself to learn I guess yeah you don't have to rely on other people's personalities or well that's what bands are for yeah that's what I always thought about bands like that's got to be the hardest part is everybody just being cool typically that's Crazy artists?

[150] Well, yeah, especially, I mean, it's really all about the hang more than anything.

[151] I'm down, I got me and three other guys in my band now, and it's like everybody's a great hang.

[152] That's awesome.

[153] Everybody gets along, and we're, like, actually friends, and you go out every night and we're just like, you know.

[154] Yeah, if you could pull that off, and it makes the road better.

[155] Like, when I go on the road, I bring, like, Ian Edwards or Tony Hinchcliffe or any my other friends that can do it.

[156] It's all, like, whether they're free that weekend, that's usually.

[157] Yeah, because you're going to be around these people for weeks, man. Oh, man, we have the best time.

[158] I don't do weeks.

[159] I just do a couple days at a time.

[160] I never go on the road for more than a Thursday, Friday, Saturday, anymore.

[161] I just stop doing it.

[162] Really?

[163] And I only do it twice a week.

[164] Is that because of the kids and just be at home?

[165] Yep.

[166] Yeah, I like being home.

[167] And also because I can track.

[168] Travel makes you old?

[169] Well, it's just not good for you.

[170] It's just not good for you.

[171] So it's all those things.

[172] I like being around my family.

[173] I like being at home.

[174] I like being around my friends.

[175] and also I just don't think it's a healthy thing I think travel on occasion is okay but I think once you start getting into like every weekend flying I've heard of people doing that and I'm like you're beating your body up there's no there's no if ands or butts about it well it's it's it's one of the the best things about certainly my job and your job you get to go out and perform and entertain but I've all since since things sort of took off for me I realized very much very much early on i'm i get paid to travel yeah the shows are free like that's just fun you know what i mean like that's right right we're out there doing what we love to do but it's all the in between and the beat down your body takes and being out of any kind of routine away from your family that's that's that's the really the thing that you come off for like four or five weeks straight of that and you know i'm a pretty healthy 39 year old dude and it takes me four or five days just to get off the fucking couch yeah after a month long run and my wife she finally started to understand like It's because you're the travel.

[176] It's a different kind of exhaustion you can't really articulate, I think.

[177] There's the travel, there's the sleeping, because usually you've got to get, if you're doing every day, too, are you busing it or are you flying?

[178] We're on buses mostly, unless it's like the logistics is just crazy, but you know, you still got to be there, so you might bus part of it.

[179] And then one night you're flying everybody or a red hour the next morning and do that thing and then get back to the bus or meet up with the bus.

[180] What helps me is cardio Like whenever I go to a place If I just I don't want to I feel like shit I'm like oh fucking tired But if I could just force myself To get to the gym And just do like 45 minutes On an elliptical machine Just that 45 minutes out of the day Just that's what I'm doing Period Nothing else Put the headphones on Listen to a podcast And just get that 45 minutes of cardio And then I'm good Then I'm straight Then everything levels out But if I don't do that If I don't do that every couple of days at least, I just feel worn out.

[181] I think it's also an endorphin imbalance.

[182] Like my buddy Bobby that plays Oregon movie, he works out like a madman.

[183] I mean, like, it's kind of insane.

[184] You guys would get along.

[185] I mean, I think a lot of that is to balance out, you know, just energy.

[186] Because every night when you go out and we get two hours of cardio on stage and just massive adrenaline blast, especially when it really locks in.

[187] And there's all this energy just slamming you in the face.

[188] And then you walk off stage.

[189] and it takes like four or five hours to come down from that every night.

[190] Yeah.

[191] And then so, you know, and the next day now your shit has to be off balance naturally, you know what I mean?

[192] Just like you just had this mast of blast of all these chemicals that your brain's pumping out endorphins.

[193] And now the next day you're just like waking up trying to figure out where to take a shit and get a cup of coffee and is there a shower today?

[194] I mean, you know.

[195] And it gets weird when you do a bunch of them in a row, right?

[196] Like how often you wake up and stare at the ceiling not exactly remember.

[197] remember in what town you're in?

[198] Not, well, that never happens.

[199] It never happens?

[200] Because I'm always staying a week or two.

[201] I mean, it's the adventure, the journey, so to speak.

[202] But I do wake up sometimes and just sort of, well, honestly, it's bittersweet because the longer you're out, the more you're playing and the better the music gets.

[203] So, you know, by the last show, there's always just really like, man, you know, I'm exhausted.

[204] I really want to go home, but I can't believe we've got to take a break now because everything just got super greasy, you know?

[205] Right.

[206] It's different every night, but you just, the chemistry and everything, and you lock in, and you're kind of get in that head.

[207] Yeah, I could imagine that it's, a comedy is very similar.

[208] It's very similar when you're doing, like, a long stretch.

[209] I only did it once with Charlie Murphy and John Hefron, we did this little tour together.

[210] There's the only time I've done, like, 30 days where I did, like, 22 dates, where I was just constantly out.

[211] I was only home for a day or two, and then I was back out again.

[212] but you get in that groove you just get in that groove you just relaxed you've been doing it a lot you feel it you get on this non -existent clock it's it's a it's a it's a it's a routine of no routine is how i describe it every day's the same but completely different um but i don't mind it man like a lot of times it feels like i'm just back in the navy because we're still sleeping bunks on the bus yeah you know we'd go out to sea for like 90 days and shit and that was that's probably way better for you psychologically when you go on stage than if you're staying in some giant suite when you're walking around the suite and they get grapes on a plate I can't do the hotel rooms man I get it you know when he started out you meet all you start going on you play like festivals or shows with your heroes and they're on buses before you are and you go on and you talk to these guys and you realize like they live in this thing they're institutionalized in the back of this bus and they never get off the bus and you're like I don't get it and then it happens to you and you realize that's like this little safe space.

[213] Like a hotel room overnight for me, I'll go crazy waiting for a show.

[214] You're like caged up in this little box, you know, with cable TV and nobody to talk to.

[215] I got soured on buses when they pulled over Willie and arrested him for weed on his bus.

[216] That guy should have been demoted, man. For really?

[217] For sure.

[218] You got Willie on a pot charge?

[219] Good for you, Sherlock.

[220] How dare you?

[221] Whoever you are.

[222] There's things you just got to let slide.

[223] It was in Texas too, right?

[224] Yep.

[225] Texas doesn't play when it comes to weed.

[226] Unfortunately, it's really silly.

[227] If it did, it would change Texas.

[228] It'd make it better.

[229] I could relax some of those fucking cowboys.

[230] Settle down.

[231] And why are you saying it shouldn't be legal, stupid?

[232] That's crazy.

[233] The fact that that's still an argument in 2018, you know what they said?

[234] Here's a funny one.

[235] One of the most recent arguments that I read was that more pedestrians were walking out into traffic because of legal weed and dying.

[236] So, like, there's been uptip.

[237] everywhere I shouldn't laugh at that that's rude it could be me right it could be me why am I laughing almost me this morning yeah I'm an asshole I'm sorry I apologize but I thought it was pretty funny this idea that there's an uptick in people just walking out into cars getting hit by cars because they're just spacing out because they're high I think it should be legal just because I'm from Kentucky and if they gave all those farmers and, you know, ex -coal industry employees, an industry that would really thrive since it grows extremely well in Kentucky, you know, instead of soybeans and tobacco, those guys could actually generate an income.

[238] What do you think is holding it back?

[239] For their family, community, politics.

[240] Actually, that's not true.

[241] Mitch McConnell out there, or somebody, some, like, really staunch right -wing guy in Kentucky came out and was even pushing for legislation towards at least the hemp industry, which would be incredible.

[242] Yeah, the hemp industry is a no -brainer.

[243] You can look at the tax numbers alone.

[244] Yeah, well, you know, we buy hemp for on it, and for the longest time, we'd have to buy it in Canada because you couldn't get it in the United States because until recently it wasn't legal to grow.

[245] And so to get like the best stuff that is the highest protein content, we'd have to fucking chip it in from Canada.

[246] You can't even grow it here.

[247] Now you can.

[248] But when, I mean, what did we start on it?

[249] That's not that long ago.

[250] I want to say like seven years ago, something like that.

[251] So that was like one of the first things that we did is, uh, Make a really good help hemp protein powder and when we were looking into it We're like I can't even believe that you can't grow this like doesn't do anything to your consciousness zero It doesn't affect you at all because it's related to pot.

[252] It's illegal The National Hemp Museum is in Versailles Kentucky isn't really where I graduated high school there because it's Woodford County Kentucky was at one point the largest hemp producing county in the entire nation Whoa It just I don't know something about the The limestone, the soil conditions, the humidity, the sunlight.

[253] Oh, shit.

[254] Hot and hemp grows really, really well.

[255] Wow.

[256] The first legal 500 acre of hemp farm in Kentucky unveiled.

[257] So now it's legal?

[258] In October.

[259] Oh, wow.

[260] So now they can grow it.

[261] Excellent.

[262] Beautiful.

[263] I don't live there anymore, so I'm out of touch.

[264] But hey, that's great news.

[265] That's fantastic news.

[266] That's amazing.

[267] What were we were, were you just talking about something that I was going to bring up?

[268] Oh shit I can't remember Something about Something about new Mr. Nelson Something new stuff That had to do with With legalization Marijuana and Kentucky We were just talking about Yeah It's just It's just pretty crazy That you'd have a hemp museum And have it be illegal For so long with no argument There's like there's no science It doesn't pollute anything It doesn't do anything The environment The nation was basically built on it Yeah Everything was made Out of that shit Did you ever see the first Henry Ford Model T where he made the fenders out of hemp and he's hitting him with a hammer?

[269] I did not know that.

[270] Dude, you got to watch this.

[271] We'll play this for you.

[272] It's the craziest shit ever.

[273] Henry Ford's very first car that he made, he made the fenders out of hemp.

[274] And you're watching him hit this fucking fender with a hammer and a hammer is just bouncing off the fender.

[275] Check this out.

[276] And this is crazy.

[277] I mean, I don't know when was this.

[278] What did it say, Jamie?

[279] What was the time it said there?

[280] It was 1941.

[281] 1984.

[282] So in 1941, before it was illegal.

[283] So it was made illegal right around the time where alcohol prohibition had ended And they needed something to go after So then they started using the same guys to go after weed And this was pre that Look at this.

[284] He's hitting this fucking thing with the back of an axe And it's just bouncing off It was also a great way to discriminate Against Mexican immigrants It was And black people too The whole name marijuana Came from a Mexican slang for wild tobacco didn't have anything to do with marijuana.

[285] They just created this thing.

[286] Like, when they made it illegal, the people that were, they didn't even understand, they were making hemp illegal.

[287] They had all, they had to explain it to everybody.

[288] Then they had, like, tax stamps that you had to people.

[289] I bet DuPont understood that, though.

[290] Oh, they understood the fuck out of it.

[291] So did William Randolph Hurst.

[292] That guy was the craziest.

[293] The guy who Citizen Kane was based on.

[294] Roseboot.

[295] That guy was the craziest.

[296] So here is, this guy's hitting.

[297] this hemp fender with a fucking hammer Henry Rollins testing it.

[298] Henry Rollins God damn it.

[299] Look, you barely smudge the thing.

[300] I mean, they're so superior to metal.

[301] And it's easy.

[302] It's a renewable resource.

[303] Like, we've fucked this up so bad.

[304] It's so obvious.

[305] It's one of the biggest examples.

[306] People said, why do you drone on about pot all the time?

[307] It's because these things like that are one of the biggest examples of just how egregious making it illegal is.

[308] It's one of the most amazing plants we've ever discovered.

[309] You can make your house out of it.

[310] You can fucking eat at it.

[311] You can get high with it.

[312] You can make your clothes with it.

[313] It has all the amino acids.

[314] You could use for heating oil.

[315] What?

[316] You can treat cancer patients.

[317] You can treat cancer patients with it.

[318] It's here for, I mean, somebody put it here.

[319] Come on.

[320] Come on.

[321] Come on.

[322] Right?

[323] It helps reduce tumor size.

[324] It's crazy.

[325] helps a host of different diseases I know a lot of people that have like serious inflammation problems they smoke some weed and they're all right just lightens everything up and it's illegal and you can grow it, you can grow your own you can grow a shit ton of it in your backyard anybody could do you have a sprinkler?

[326] Okay, you got some good dirt all right, you got some weed that weed's just good to go that's a fucking hearty -ass plant Yeah my grandmother she just had some some health stuff and it's like you know how do I you know she's pretty old school like knowing there's this thing out there that that isn't anything that these doctors are going to offer her that's just going to make her feel awful yeah and you know or have to go through all of those some that just give you comfort and ease nausea or make you want to eat food or those kind of things like why wouldn't you want someone you love and care about to have that but then at the same time you know you want to be the person trying to feed pot to your grandmother yeah it's a hard sell it's a hard sell yeah it's just stunning how well propaganda from 1933 carried all the way the fuck to 2018 it's stunning is it i mean but it's almost 100 years yeah with what we like the amount of information that you can get on a subject now Like, say if you're the medical benefits of cannabis, just Google that.

[327] And you'll just start reading all the shit.

[328] Like, it seems to me that enough people would go, wait, what are we doing?

[329] Like, why is it illegal?

[330] Nobody's died from it.

[331] Like, no one.

[332] More people die of aspirin every year because zero die from pot.

[333] So it's really the number is zero.

[334] It doesn't mean that people aren't going to get high and walk out of traffic.

[335] Some are going to.

[336] But I think part of that is because we're not teaching people how to get high properly.

[337] Someone gets high for the first time.

[338] I wonder how many of those.

[339] people that are getting hit by cars are actually looking at their phones could be a lot they were high and looking at their phones you don't see that here like you do in nashville i drive around i don't know that's like i can't hate that and you like every time i'm driving around town everybody's text and everybody's looking down you can always spot them in the interstate yep we even know but you don't see that in california you guys you guys have like really heavy laws saw it today yeah saw today some lady had drifted completely in my lane and i looked over at her and i saw the the back of her head like i was i was on her driver's side i was on that side looking over at her and all I saw was the back of her.

[340] She literally was looking at my car and she was just looking at her phone and working her thumb and occasionally like looking up at the screen or looking up at the windshield.

[341] It's like, whoa, you crazy lady.

[342] You think just because you're going 40 miles an hour, that's okay because you're on a side street?

[343] Like you're not even looking where you're going.

[344] You're driving a car.

[345] What if you hit a kid?

[346] Jesus Christ.

[347] Fuck.

[348] What if you slam into some old lady?

[349] You know?

[350] What if you rear?

[351] into bike you're not even looking you didn't even notice the bike was there boom you run over some guy's leg what in the fuck lady or dude maybe I was misgendering I don't know I don't know what her status is you gotta be real careful today Sturgel is it like that in Nashville is everybody like super I don't know bro I don't leave the house I really don't have any idea I just sort of I think that's a good move yeah you know I like my kids I mean I'm somewhat aware of everything going on it's surprising that none of that's really hit the music business as hard as it is but um there's just yeah i try to just do my thing yeah there's a weird weird world we're living in today i would like uh i would like us to figure this out better i would like us to do just a little bit better job being nice to each other getting our shit together weird time it's real weird It's real weird Strangest times In my lifetime Which isn't that long But that I can recall I don't ever remember Things ever being Like Whatever this is You know Yeah And I don't mean that In any general I was middle of the road Just like Crazy shit with Superpowers Talking about nuclear bombs All the time Every day now And it's just like How did we get back there Right You know Yeah Yeah, how do we get back to Putin telling us that he has some new nuclear missile that you can't defend against?

[352] Yeah.

[353] 1 ,500 meter tsunami wave of apocalyptic death that thing could bomb out.

[354] Yeah, why the fuck, man?

[355] And we don't have a defense system that can deal with it.

[356] So he's basically saying, I could kill you.

[357] I have a gun pointed at your head.

[358] I could kill you.

[359] Anytime.

[360] Welcome to 2018.

[361] Oh, yeah, Donald Trump's president.

[362] I did that, too, by the way.

[363] Yeah.

[364] I don't know, man. It's terrifying.

[365] It's definitely caused for concern.

[366] All this while, potty illegal.

[367] Pots illegal, but it's legal to have a guy who is the host of the apprentice run the nuclear armament.

[368] Or armory.

[369] You'd say armory, right?

[370] You know, I got in some trouble a few months ago because I did this.

[371] I had nothing to do one night, and I went down.

[372] The whole thing was just a protest kind of based on, like, answering questions.

[373] And that's just, like, the promise I made, this buddy of mine had a, he videotaped it, and he had a press pass, so they couldn't tell us to turn the camera off.

[374] And somebody asked me, what do you think about Trump?

[375] And I answered it.

[376] But, so what they didn't ask, what do you think of all politicians?

[377] You know what I mean?

[378] Right.

[379] To me, like, nothing ever really changes.

[380] Like, right, left, this or that.

[381] It's all just sort of a different version of the people you never really see.

[382] We can't have an alpha chimp.

[383] Yeah.

[384] It's a stupid position.

[385] We shouldn't have it anymore.

[386] We shouldn't have had it a long time ago.

[387] We should have figured out a long time ago that you can't have one person run the whole show.

[388] It's insane.

[389] It doesn't work.

[390] It's crazy for them, too.

[391] It's not good for anybody.

[392] We can't pretend anymore that one person is special above other people.

[393] Like, royalty doesn't work anymore.

[394] It doesn't work.

[395] We're all just people.

[396] It doesn't work.

[397] And you can't get voted into the number one person on the world.

[398] That's fucking ridiculous.

[399] Apparently you can.

[400] You can, but you shouldn't be able to.

[401] It's not it's it's too old.

[402] It's too antiquated and there's way better options.

[403] There's just way better options.

[404] You can't have all of us like and you can't have like some arbitrary date.

[405] The presidential election should not be an episode of the voice is that what you're saying.

[406] Yeah, exactly.

[407] Well, it has it's got a time.

[408] It's got a buzzer.

[409] Everything is episode of the voice now, man. That's just how it works, you know.

[410] Or American Idol or something like that.

[411] There's a buzzer.

[412] It's all a big contest.

[413] You mean, you win the trophy.

[414] When you, when you vote, there's a buzzer.

[415] The buzzer's over.

[416] You can't vote anymore.

[417] Right.

[418] Right.

[419] The vote's are in.

[420] That's it.

[421] And the drum roll, please.

[422] I mean, it's showbiz.

[423] I don't know, man. It doesn't make any sense that you, I mean, I guess it does because then people could arbitrarily decide to remove a leader and put a leader back in and like you would just be able to vote and change your mind with the tide, like constantly.

[424] But that's one more reason why we shouldn't have one person.

[425] It's stupid.

[426] Should have, first of all, we got to, we got to, we got to.

[427] to overhaul the way we teach kids.

[428] We've got to have more informed people.

[429] Then once you have more informed people, you let them in on what the fuck we should do.

[430] We all decide as a group.

[431] Like the way they do it now, the way they do it now is just, it's bullshit, it's fake.

[432] Like you're pretending that you have a choice.

[433] You do have a choice.

[434] You have a choice between this guy or that guy.

[435] Neither one you like.

[436] So pick it.

[437] But both of them are embedded in all the special interest groups and all the lobbyists.

[438] It was supposed to be a republic.

[439] It was always supposed to be about the people.

[440] Yeah.

[441] And buy the people for the people.

[442] No, I don't, yeah.

[443] It's been co -opted by money.

[444] It's real simple.

[445] Big farmer and oil companies, I don't know.

[446] Well, the amount of people that are allowed to spend millions and millions of dollars to prop up politicians.

[447] It's like, why would we let that happen?

[448] On both sides.

[449] On both sides.

[450] Why would we let that happen?

[451] That seems crazy.

[452] That seems like any other job where you were in a position of influence over someone else's job, You wouldn't be able to take money from that person to make sure that you did the right thing.

[453] That would be called bribery, right?

[454] I don't know.

[455] I mean, it is like bribery.

[456] They do it.

[457] Right, they do do it.

[458] But they get in big, like, here's one that they get in real big trouble for.

[459] Here's one that I think is interesting.

[460] They, um, Trump recently, uh, did something about steel, about, uh, bringing steel back to the United States and steel manufacturing back in the United States.

[461] But before he did it, one of his homies bought a shit.

[462] a stock and steal, like one of his super rich dudes.

[463] And so then the question is like, hey, should he have been allowed to do that?

[464] Isn't that insider trading?

[465] Right.

[466] And you're like, wait a minute.

[467] You can't just know shit?

[468] If I know shit, what am I supposed to do?

[469] I'm not supposed to buy stock?

[470] Like, well, then if you do know shit and you buy stock, is that fair?

[471] That doesn't seem fair.

[472] What's the answer there?

[473] The answer's the system sucks.

[474] You've got a wacky -ass fucking crazy system that all your money's based on where people can just buy and say, sell parts of companies.

[475] Yeah.

[476] We're all.

[477] I think the Chinese pretty much bought all the steel companies, right?

[478] It was a while about you were smart enough to say, oh, you don't want that, okay.

[479] Nobody's ever going to go back, though.

[480] Once you can make money off the stock market, fuck that.

[481] I'm making money off moving numbers around on my computer.

[482] Fuck you, I'm staying.

[483] Do you play it?

[484] No. It's just terrifying.

[485] Terrifying.

[486] No way.

[487] No. Get the fuck out of here with that.

[488] I've gained and lost before.

[489] I was a victim of a pump and dump steam.

[490] I get nervous at the wheel of fortune dollar slots, man, in Vegas, you know what I mean, much less.

[491] You should.

[492] Those are dangerous.

[493] Okay.

[494] They lure you in.

[495] I'm down 19.

[496] I got to get the fuck out of here.

[497] I was a victim of a pump and dump scheme.

[498] This dude told me to buy the stock.

[499] He's like, dude, I'm telling me the stock's about the blow.

[500] The guy was a Coke dealer, so I knew he was honest.

[501] Trustworthy, easy to listen to.

[502] I didn't know he was a Coke dealer at the time.

[503] I just thought he was a comic.

[504] And so he would tell me about the stock, and we bought into it.

[505] I don't think I bought that much, but it was like a few thousand dollars, which is not that big of a deal if you're uh you know you're looking at the greater spectrum of how much money people lose right in the stock market that's a i lost nothing i mean people lose their whole their whole life savings their fortune they're they're they're what they've inherited people can lose it like that in a stock market so we bought in me and my business manager and it went up for a little while it went up because more people were telling more people to buy it and then it just crashed and when i mean it crashed it just went through the floor like it didn't exist anymore it was like it I forget what the number was, but it was like in the many dollars down to like a fraction of a cent or a cent or three cent or something like that.

[506] It went down to virtually worthless and we're like, oh, we got pumping dumped.

[507] Like that's what they do.

[508] They pump it up.

[509] They get a bunch of people to join and then once a bunch of people are buying this stock, they're like, abandon ship.

[510] And I got fucked.

[511] I remember a shooter going on about years ago all about the Bitcoin shit, man. Yeah.

[512] You got hung up on the Bitcoin for a minute.

[513] I wish I loved it.

[514] I wish I'd listened.

[515] He loves that shit.

[516] He's a, he's a, a Bitcoin believer.

[517] Yeah.

[518] I'm a Bitcoin.

[519] Hmm.

[520] This is me. I'm like, I don't understand that, and I probably never will, so I'm going to stay over here.

[521] Yeah, it's a good move.

[522] I just, every, like, like a little pyramid schemy.

[523] Does it?

[524] I don't know.

[525] I mean, it's, it's nervous.

[526] It makes us nervous.

[527] At this point, my life, I just assume.

[528] know everything is a pyramid scheme it's always like a trickle of you know yeah if it could be proven to be as stable or more stable than money i think we just go for it that's what i think i think why fuck around why why use all these old crazy rich banker dudes money when you could just do nerd money just digital nerd money what all we would take is people having to agree to it right that's it's all it would take if everybody just agreed to just use bitcoin or if everybody agreed to an implant that had all your info on it and all your money don't you do that story you'll cool walk into your movie man that's coming yeah someone's going to give you the benefits of it if you just put this in your dick first of all they just haven't inserted it yet but we all have one yeah they haven't turned it on yet it's in your pocket not your wrist yeah well some people it's on their wrist too I was texting one night with the guys in the band, this was what really scared the shit.

[529] I mean, I got off social media while back completely again.

[530] I tried Twitter again.

[531] I told Jason Isbell, I'd give it a second shot, but I realized my kids are way more interesting.

[532] And, like, I'm trying to, you know, I'd just rather be writing a song or doing something else.

[533] But one night, all, we were all had a group text going on, and somebody said something made a, like, there was a lot of 80s film buffs in our band.

[534] And somebody made a Jean -Claude Van Damme reference.

[535] And, dude, like, five minutes later, I'm not in any way exactly.

[536] exaggerating this all that my wife and I're sitting there watching TV surfing Netflix and instantly is like my entire channel is full of Jean -Claude van damn selections and I was just like what in the fuck is going on I've never watched a Jean -Claude van damn film ever on Netflix and now there's all this it's like somehow that got cross -marketed to my television set just because I'm on my telephone talking about this fucking guy freak me out and I was like no more I'm dumping everything dude I've heard people tell me that they were having conversations on the phone with someone and then what they were talking about showed up in their Google ads on their on their laptop how's that work how does that work I have no idea are they listening constantly something says yes yeah Edward Snowden says yes but that but the fact that it shows up in your Google ads isn't that a little fucking obvious I mean that hasn't happened to me do you think that's real 100 % Jamie's look at Lee he looks like you should have a guy fox mask on right now slip on one of them fucking anarchist masks look at him he's smiling over there 100 % they're listening to us god damn it gmail's free for a reason you know boom what's they can read it definitely yeah they're reading everything wow it all makes sense now that's intense now i'm freaking out jamie thanks thanks buddy hey fuck my head up man here to help is that okay you know who signed off on that how many people have have ever read those terms of agreement I don't have you ever that thing that's what I think when you buy the Alexa you're just like yes those people say you're buying yes those people are crazy having those things in your house that you talk to and it listens to everything fuck all that that just seems like too hackable it's all weird man it's getting and by the way this is just the first drops of water that's going through before our roof collapses because it's coming or you know all cars As far as the automotive bills, it's all electronic systems and GPS.

[537] Yeah.

[538] I'm not a techie guy, so excuse me, this is a really ignorant question, but what's to stop somebody from hacking into your car and crashing you into a fucking wall?

[539] Well, that was always the case against Michael, or the death of Michael Hastings.

[540] Yeah, they said the CIA.

[541] Yeah, I remember that.

[542] Well, they don't know if the CIA or who, you know, but he wrote a story for Rolling Stone.

[543] He was embedded in Iraq or Afghanistan, I forget.

[544] and he wrote a story about this general It was very unflattering And what happened was he got stuck there with them And he lived with these people for a long time And they let their guard down And, you know, they said a bunch of shit They would say around each other They made a movie about it, did they?

[545] I don't know.

[546] I don't know.

[547] I don't know about that.

[548] Maybe they might have.

[549] But this general apparently got fired And it was one of the best generals that, you know, it was like very highly ranked And really respected by the troops and people were really, really pissed at this guy.

[550] And he was starting to say that he was in danger, that his life was in danger.

[551] And I think he even said something about if, for whatever reason, he commits suicide, that he didn't do it.

[552] And he was driving his car, and he drove straight into a tree over 100 miles an hour.

[553] I think it was on sunset.

[554] His car exploded.

[555] Engine flew from the car.

[556] horrific shit and then afterwards they talked to these computer experts and they say well is it possible to take a modern automobile with all sorts of there's all sorts of devices inside modern cars right that make them hit the brakes if you're getting too close to something or literally move out of a lane some of them have automatic pilot so you could just fucking press the destination and it just navigates there i mean that's what a tesla does in pittsburgh i was there some weeks back The castles are crazy.

[557] They have the self -driving Uber's up there.

[558] And they're getting better and better and better at that.

[559] Yeah.

[560] That's, I don't know.

[561] I mean, where do you go?

[562] Next thing they'll be trying to shoot humans through pneumatic tubes or something, you know?

[563] But you think that people who kill people literally for a profession, right?

[564] Professional soldiers, especially the ones that this guy, I mean, embedded in combat.

[565] I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that they would light that guy up.

[566] for getting that general booted out.

[567] Right.

[568] I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility at all.

[569] They would think that guy's the enemy.

[570] And they said that he had amphetamines in his system.

[571] And for a while I was like, oh, he had amphetamines.

[572] Maybe he was going crazy.

[573] Then I realized that almost all journalists are taking fucking Adderall.

[574] They're all taking amphetamines.

[575] You'll find amphetamines and meth -like substances and all of them.

[576] Not all of them.

[577] Don't get mad if you're straight.

[578] You're like, dude, all I drink is coffee.

[579] Don't be a dick.

[580] But a lot of them.

[581] I have many friends that are writers or journalists.

[582] I can think of two journalists that are friends of mine that both take a lot of Adderall.

[583] They love that shit.

[584] Good buddy of mine who's a doctor was just telling me that when he was in college and he was going through all of his examinations, his friends started taking Adderall.

[585] And he recognized this giant jump in their performance.

[586] And he was like, what the fuck?

[587] He goes, they were smoking me in the grades.

[588] And I realized, oh, these guys are on PEDs.

[589] I never did it.

[590] I've never tried it.

[591] Want to try it right now?

[592] Not really.

[593] No, I kind of like to be down here.

[594] You know what I mean?

[595] I've never understood that.

[596] I guess it never appealed to my disposition.

[597] I don't think I would function.

[598] If you wanted to build a log cabin right now.

[599] Right now.

[600] It might be the way to go.

[601] Right.

[602] Well, they said when Jack Kerouac wrote on the road, they were on a lot of benzidrine or like this inhalant things they used to buy.

[603] And he sat down and wrote the whole thing in like three days.

[604] Jesus Christ.

[605] Or maybe a day.

[606] I can't remember.

[607] I don't, you know, I'm not a beat aficionado, but I know that he was hopped out of his mind on speed and wrote the whole thing like in a scroll.

[608] On a roof in Mexico, while Ginsburg was probably downstairs molesting a little kid or some shit.

[609] I don't know.

[610] That's a dark picture.

[611] Right.

[612] There used to be, what do you got there, Jamie?

[613] How a generation of beat writers burnt out on speed.

[614] Wow.

[615] There was a big pool scene.

[616] Everybody was on speed back then.

[617] Yeah.

[618] Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

[619] Pool players.

[620] That was the thing with pool players back then, is that they would take speed and gamble.

[621] When people first found out about speed, it must have been the most amazing thing ever.

[622] Before they realized how it could wreck you, I mean, think about it, there's no speed, and then all of a sudden, 10, 20 years later, everyone's on speed.

[623] I mean, it happened out of nowhere.

[624] There wasn't a bunch of speed burnouts that everybody could look back on and go, oh, look at that guy over there, learn from him.

[625] like especially like Adderall like there's no there's no burnouts so everybody's been just been taking it for a few years like how long has been around 20 years maybe as long as how long anything Adderall's been around Jamie yeah probably after Ritalin probably right so yeah 15 20 years it was invented the same time as gluten carouac took so much amphetamine when he first discovered the inhaler high that he lost most of his hair and his legs swelled up with, what is that worth, thromboflibitis, thromboflibitis.

[626] Wow.

[627] That seems like he went overboard.

[628] A little bit.

[629] Saying he went deep.

[630] You know, do you know who that beardy man guy is?

[631] He does electronic music.

[632] He's like, one of those, what do they call those, artists?

[633] What do they call them?

[634] EDM.

[635] EDM.

[636] What do they call those guys?

[637] He's got a beard?

[638] but he Greg Fitzsimmons and I were going over Hunter S. Thompson's routine before he would write and he would just start off like early in the morning drinking.

[639] Oh, the whole laundry list leading up till start work at midnight.

[640] Yeah, at midnight.

[641] Hunter S. Thompson is ready, you're right.

[642] I'm like, holy shit.

[643] But him, same thing, right?

[644] His body just gave out, man. His body was just falling apart by the time he's dying.

[645] He just burnt that fucking thing to a crisp.

[646] Well, they didn't know what we know now.

[647] You know, those guys were riding the lightning and they never thought there'd be any.

[648] Yeah, but I think with Hunter, it didn't matter whether or not he knew.

[649] He would have done the exact same thing anyway.

[650] Like, he was of a mindset that he's like, he's not here for a long time.

[651] He's here for a good time.

[652] Right.

[653] And that's what he did.

[654] And I mean, that's why people love that guy.

[655] It's one of the main, not just because of his brilliant writing, but because that motherfucker went for it.

[656] And then when it was all over, he said, yep, this ain't fine anymore.

[657] You take care.

[658] put a gun to his head and that's a wrap told everybody was going to do it too said hey want to get to a point where i don't like this anymore i got fake hips now can't move always in pain that's a wrap take care boom the second you can't walk up or down a few flights of stairs by yourself that's kind of when it's over you know for a lot of people yeah a lot of people manage to still find some reason to keep going and enjoy themselves and you know and they're fine but it's like when you're a guy that's just still hitting it hard every day he never got he never sobered up there was no sobering up at a hundred times at what point though is that sad yeah when is I mean there's obviously a pretty inherent level of self -medication going on to get through the day so you don't wake up and blow your brains out right you know yeah um maybe it's just me I don't know um I think with a guy like him his his path was probably pretty clearly carved from the time he was very young he just he what I mean the thing that's so interesting about him is that he was so genuinely thoughtful like he really did think about oh he's one of the greatest writers of our time no question of and a kentuckian so yeah there you go all right it's got to be all right yeah thought I read a lot of it but I read it way too early because you know when you're I was one of those kids that got just at older cousins you get exposed to all that shit yeah it was too soon you know probably high school or I read the the campaign trail thing the Nixon book shark yeah yeah that was a great one his uh his documentary you ever see that gonzo lifetime time's a fucking amazing yeah you want to just do something with your life after you watch that not not uh I don't know.

[659] I don't have any friends that, like, wave 44 magnums around in their living room, though.

[660] It's not good.

[661] You're right, 100%.

[662] He definitely had, I mean, it wasn't perfect.

[663] I would go to that party.

[664] Don't get me wrong.

[665] I'd go to that party, too, but you might get a shot.

[666] I wouldn't move in.

[667] No. No. You'd go to the party.

[668] Johnny Depp moved in for, like, what, six weeks or something shit.

[669] Yeah, he went all the way.

[670] They went all that.

[671] I wonder if he cooked Johnny Depp's brain.

[672] I wonder if that's when Johnny Depp started going wacky.

[673] Holy shit, it probably is.

[674] I'm going to spread a conspiracy theory.

[675] Johnny Depp was reasonable and calm and polite and had his shit completely together until he did too much acid with Hunter S. Thompson and that's why he's wacky now.

[676] What do you think?

[677] I don't know.

[678] It's not outside of the wrong possibility.

[679] He's from Kentucky, too.

[680] I'm not going to say anything bad.

[681] Damn, it's a full Kentucky house.

[682] Did you ever read the Kentucky Derby is decadent and depraved?

[683] Yeah, absolutely.

[684] And it still holds true.

[685] Oh, it's an amazing book.

[686] Or amazing article, rather.

[687] Well, that was where he sort of really found the style.

[688] That piece in particular was where he was like, I'm going to go over here and do this.

[689] Yeah, there was definitely that.

[690] And then that fear and loathing in Las Vegas thing, too, where that started out.

[691] He was being paid to cover a motorcycle race.

[692] It became this just fucking crazy screed about drugs and partying.

[693] And we were outside of Barstow when the drugs began to take hold.

[694] And it's fucking bats in the air and shit.

[695] They're driving a convertible Cadillac across the country, headed to Vegas.

[696] I mean, it's a fucking amazing, amazing piece of work.

[697] And it started out as a Sports Illustrated story.

[698] They wanted him to cover a race.

[699] And also a very, you know, fitting and beautiful eulogy to the whole 60s flower power shit that just caved on itself.

[700] Yeah.

[701] Like a...

[702] There's that one line, too.

[703] A bunch of fucking quitters, man. Well, what do you think happened with them?

[704] I think they took away their pot.

[705] I think...

[706] They took away the acid and they arrested a bunch of people and they threw water on the whole thing.

[707] And then, you know, You know, you have a few college student massacres, and, you know, the sensationalization of the Manson murders probably didn't help.

[708] Right, sure.

[709] That became like a big narrative piece.

[710] Hippies, LSD, Manson, blah, da, da, da, yeah, it was all tied in.

[711] But, you know, the musically, since, you know, I should stick to talking about things I know about, which is music, I think that that was probably just the best shit that ever happened and ever will have.

[712] happen like that 65 to 70 there was you know it just sort of exploded in all different directions and a lot of things happened that maybe they couldn't happen now or even two decades ago they couldn't have happened as a musician what do you think was a catalyst like what made them go from the 50 sound to the 60s just experimentation and mind whatever you know looking for different ways of life philosophically speaking maybe I think what they were all writing about but I mean and then some guys were just pushing the sonic limitations of the studio like Hendricks didn't really do that much drugs you know what I mean the guy was all just about like I mean yeah he partied but he wasn't like a druggy you know he probably ate acid on stage a couple times and both of those I think he was spiked really yeah he's just a serious blues head and they wanted to stretch out and really push what the limitations of the gear at that time in the studio you know, well, I don't, I don't only want to have eight channels.

[713] What if we had 16?

[714] Some of the experimentation and things that guys like him and Pink Floyd and later bands, you know, ALO, just really pushing the parameters of what you could do with the traditional style of music in terms of arrangement and how you frame that.

[715] I always assume that because he got arrested in Toronto with heroin, that he did drugs.

[716] I feel like if you have heroin on you, you got drug.

[717] Did he get busted?

[718] I thought it was barbiturates or...

[719] It's a good question.

[720] I'm pretty sure it was heroin.

[721] I don't think he ever like...

[722] I could be wrong, man. You might be right.

[723] You might be right.

[724] What is it said?

[725] A media says a small amount of heroin and hashish.

[726] Huh.

[727] That's chasing the dragon.

[728] Yeah.

[729] See, so when I read that, I'm like, how much do we know about what Jimmy Hendricks did during his day?

[730] Like, people don't know how high I'm getting.

[731] I know you like...

[732] How would they know?

[733] I mean, if they see us get high on the show, they know how high I got today.

[734] Right.

[735] But they don't even, because I can.

[736] get high before i go running i might get high when i'm sitting home to right i have people tell me they that i'm high when i'm not even high yeah but you probably are a little still you get high i just have really sleepy like hound dog guys so i always look high you want whatever it doesn't matter um jimmy jimmy liked he was into some weird shit it's kind of uh i know he had this thing about video like filming women walking away from the hotel hmm so they found this big collection of like home movies of him hanging out off hotel room balconies like as they walked away as they walked away that was some kind of weird interesting fetish what is that he was not guilty on the charges they don't know that they might have been planted on oh interesting they're not sure if they're actually interesting it said he had no drug partner finile in his luggage or needle tracks on his arms no he smoked pot but he oh they might have fucking framed him the plot That dude was too creative and prolific just in the amount of time he was alive to have been a junkie.

[737] You know what I mean?

[738] Yeah.

[739] You got to make a junkie get up and do shit.

[740] That's true.

[741] But they say that about potheads too, but I know a lot of pretty prolific potheads.

[742] I don't buy that.

[743] I don't either.

[744] Smoking pot gets me off the couch.

[745] Yeah, right?

[746] It makes you a little paranoid.

[747] Totally.

[748] Yeah.

[749] I got to get some shit done.

[750] Well, you know.

[751] Like I'm maybe not working hard enough.

[752] It makes me feel like that.

[753] Like I could be getting more shit done.

[754] Yeah.

[755] They said linen actually, you know, when he was on heroin for a while, but that motherfucker laid in bed with like 18 cats, you know, and it didn't do anything.

[756] And then they said, Paul would be like, oh, I've got some songs.

[757] We've got to make a record.

[758] And he'd be like, God damn it, wake up and have to write five songs in a week.

[759] Oh, really?

[760] Because he just, they just lay around like a sloth, butt naked until all the, all the maids to pretend like he wasn't there when he walked through the kitchen butt naked to get a glass of milk.

[761] You couldn't do that anymore.

[762] They'd take your house.

[763] Yeah.

[764] That may be fired.

[765] You couldn't even make it like an arrangement.

[766] Well, you can make an arrangement the other way, though.

[767] There's like a to topless maid service to come over your house and they take their top off.

[768] See, that just seems weird.

[769] It's definitely weird.

[770] I don't know.

[771] I would be like, uh...

[772] Imagine the people that those poor ladies have to deal with on daily?

[773] Fuck, man. Yeah, that ain't a good time.

[774] But you could have a topless maid service, but you couldn't have a...

[775] You come over and wash the house while I'm naked deal.

[776] Because if it's your house and you're naked and they're walking around your house, then you're forcing them to look at you.

[777] naked, right?

[778] I would think that that's...

[779] Yeah, people are losing their careers over there right now.

[780] Yeah, you can't do that.

[781] You're really not supposed to do that.

[782] Yeah, but in the old days, like a king who didn't give a fuck, he would just stroll around and let everyone look at his cock and walk right through the fucking building, wouldn't give a shit.

[783] Have your head chopped chopped off if you didn't have sex with him?

[784] I would not want to live in those times.

[785] I've been watching a lot of Vikings.

[786] I haven't seen it, man. I feel like four people tell me to watch that shit.

[787] I don't have time.

[788] I didn't believe them.

[789] I didn't believe them.

[790] I didn't believe them.

[791] like there's no way it's on regular TV is it that good it's fucking good really it's a good show you have to you have to get through the first couple episodes first couple episodes you're a little like yeah my buddy fergs all about it he's like me you got to get on this viking shit man they have to set things up that's the problem with shows you're not you're a little skeptical until you get to know everybody and then you get the feeling of the characters then you get sucked in that's why binge watching is so awesome binge watching is great for if you're especially if you're a touring musician oh yeah right you know I can never get into shows when they come out because I'll see a couple episodes and then we go on tour for two months and you're like what the fuck happened but now I can come home and just you know watch a season of something in a day while I'm recuperating yeah my wife's pretty she knows what like good shows the programs and shit like I wouldn't know what to watch but I found a lot of things have you seen stranger things I saw the first season or no I did see yeah we saw those what about Ozark saw that I like Bateman That's a good one I like that sardonic shit There's a new one coming out with Jared Leto About the yaku Or is it a movie It's a movie It's a movie on Netflix Yeah It joins the yakuza Most handsomest White -looking Yakuza guy ever Perfect features Right Because that happens all the time It's happening in this movie Bro How about to spend a little disbelief For Jared Leto They're just walking around Shinjuku Looking for white dudes To fucking run shop you know you think he's learned how to speak Japanese I hope so it's pretty weird if he doesn't it's beautiful he's prettier than most women oh he's pretty than a lot of women man if you put him in like a long haired wig type situation it's beautiful there he goes we're going to look at pictures of Jerry Lowe now is he supposed to be half Japanese is that the premise of the show I better not be because he's got his hair died do that anymore that shit is cultural appropriation you're not allowed to anymore But how else is a white dude gonna get in Yakuza?

[792] He's gotta be like a catch there.

[793] I think he was a soldier that was friends with a guy and he stayed over there to help him.

[794] Gotcha.

[795] Like if you have a movie today and you have a Chinese character in a movie but you have a Japanese guy play the Chinese character, you're fucked, right?

[796] People will get angry.

[797] You can't do it anymore.

[798] No more pretending you're someone else.

[799] Like can you...

[800] Unless you're Robert Downey Jr. Yeah, he could get away with it, but not.

[801] anymore he got away with it in that one movie but like if you were an Asian guy though I firmly believe no one would have a problem if they took an Asian guy and gave him some sort of facial prosthetics that turned him into a European looking guy and then gave him lead roles in a movie where he plays a European guy people would have to shut the fuck up they would be they would want to say something but then they'd go it's amazing how far uh we watch a lot of movies on the bus sometimes And I watch, if I'm at home and I'm by myself, like, I watch weird shit.

[802] I like old films and a lot of old westerns and stuff.

[803] You know, I watch the same movies I've seen a hundred times over and over as opposed to watching a lot of the newer shit.

[804] But if you watch a lot of these old westerns from the 50s and it's like, it's all white dudes painted up like Native American Indians.

[805] Yeah.

[806] With the headdresses and it just looks so cheesy and they have these affected horrible accents.

[807] And you're just like, how the fuck did that ever?

[808] happened but then you get to the 80s and you watch something like 48 hours now and it's the most sexist racist misogynistic shit like and they were just pumping those things out of studios yeah two three decades ago you know with any female characters in those films like you're either hooker one or secretary at precinct who everybody dismisses you know what i mean like those were the only roles yeah that just happened that's when we're kids Yeah, when we were kids Yeah We were on that movie I just called out specifically We watched it on the bus one night We were all like This would never fucking get made Yeah, man There's no way So much would never get made It's weird I mean is that Is that cultural evolution?

[809] I think so I mean I hope so There's a little bit of it But it's happening It's such a rapid rate I hope it's all not just like Catch phrases and shit I hope it's actually Doing something I have weird ideas about this I um I really feel like if we weren't completely embedded in it, that we would look at this is like a system that's pulling us into its web and forcing us to be more and more entangled.

[810] And this system is the system of electronics.

[811] It's like almost like it's preparing for us to give birth to artificial life.

[812] And so in the meantime, it's completely sucking us in and making us.

[813] us be completely embedded phones in your pocket constant Alexa listening to everything you do it's all just as deep as it can in the biological systems world until it gives birth and we're going to force it out of exist force it into existence just by being completely fascinated with electronics are we I'm gonna rose yeah is it the universe forcing it into existence that too I think it's a natural thing well I've always described it as like a it's figured out a way to interconnect itself even more man yeah it has data yeah and force progress like think about what they were saying about Putin like if Putin really does have that kind of missile fucking sky net man you know it sure it is it sure is yeah there you go but if someone has that kind of power right if there really is something that a person can think up that didn't exist 200 years ago 200 years ago there wasn't even the thought of it so in 200 years two small amounts of measurement of time in relationships of the entire age of the universe they could figure out a way to kill every person on the planet like that literally wrecked the planet where no life would be it wouldn't be possible to have life there's enough nuclear bombs to do that what is it going to be like in 200 years from now it's going to be way way way way more accelerated it's almost going to get to the point where the universe is going to be a like a place where you could visit people can go places if not people things can go places As long as I'm holding a lightsaber before I die.

[814] Oh, you'll get one of those.

[815] It's all fucking worth it.

[816] But the problem of the lightsaber is I was always like, well, why does it end there?

[817] Why doesn't it just go on for infinity?

[818] Like a laser?

[819] Oh, yeah, right?

[820] Why is it only three and a half feet long?

[821] Yeah, what's it doing?

[822] Unless it was a rod and that the laser went around the raw, but it knew to stop at the top.

[823] That would make sense.

[824] But the fact that the laser only extends three feet or whatever it does?

[825] The fuck out of it.

[826] George Lucas was a big Curisawa fan.

[827] Was he?

[828] Yeah.

[829] All that shit's basically.

[830] on Samurai films.

[831] Oh, that's right.

[832] And Leone films.

[833] All those guys just like, it's like generations of dudes paying homage and ripping each other off that lead to the new thing.

[834] It's the same as music.

[835] Wow.

[836] Well, Quentin Tarantino's always been pretty open about that, right?

[837] He makes unapologetic, like, cinematic homage is right down to frame and shots and scores.

[838] Like, he's a, yeah.

[839] Does it masterfully, though?

[840] Like, isn't it, what are you doing when you're remaking King Kong?

[841] Making money?

[842] Yeah, you make money.

[843] You're making a lot of money.

[844] But if you do it right, you're making art. I don't think anybody has done King Kong right.

[845] Everybody's done King Kong right.

[846] You might not be able to do King Kong right.

[847] Maybe it's a bad example.

[848] But the Hulk.

[849] The CGI shit, for me, man, it really took the magic out of everything.

[850] That with HD, because you watch Harry and Henderson's with your kids now or something.

[851] And that looks better than a lot of the stuff coming out.

[852] It's just, I don't know.

[853] The suspension of disbelief isn't there.

[854] HD TV just fucking ruin movies for me. Because I'm like, eh, that fake as fuck as far as.

[855] Yeah, it's faking's fuck Yeah Give me some VHS, you know It's better Blur the lines a little bit Yeah Yeah, like digital music Same thing You hear all that separation And air And Sterilization, I guess Is the best way to Yeah I think it definitely works That way for physical things Like it's one of the reasons Why the original Alien movie was so terrifying It was a physical thing That was a you knew Or the first Halloween Yeah There's no blood in that film It's just tension and bread and anxiety and real people yeah and some crazy fuck running around on a william shatner mask even in america warwolf in london just quick scenes also from kentucky was he really yep damn kentucky and mohaman ali yeah we don't fuck louisville yeah mrham lincoln daniel boone damn uh harry dean stanley well imagine the daniel boone days being brother i i don't have to imagine where i live now is like daniel boondays i walk out it's like yep there's uh they found this some there's some caves down we we moved to the smokies where they just give land away down there really and uh yeah i like fucking my own woods now for less than what a townhouse in nashville would cost and uh but they the people bought it from they found a cave on the back back of the property down the can we kind of back up to this national forest and there's a bunch of like 3 ,000 -year -old Indian cave paintings in there like Native American cave paintings so the University of Chicago came down and studied it all.

[856] So now I'm going to spend the rest of my life trying to figure out to keep my fucking kids from going in there and doing something, you know.

[857] Right, and Dick was here.

[858] Yeah, we're drawing big cock and balls on the Indians.

[859] But here's the thing, that cock and balls would be revered by people who have found in 2 ,000 years from now.

[860] Right?

[861] Why do we say?

[862] Yeah, I mean, if you went to a cave 2 ,000 years from now And they uncovered some cave And it was a bunch of dudes Just drawing guys jerking off Yeah People would be excited They're like well this was 3 ,000 years later What happened?

[863] Yeah Well if you look at like some of the ancient artwork Right Like how about some of the Roman statues Or dudes grabbing each other's dicks And wrestling Do you ever see that?

[864] Really?

[865] I haven't seen that Yeah They were wrestling And in the process of wrestling One dude's grabbing the other guy's junk Which they did do They'd crush your balls and shit That was a move back then And so Well let's be honest Like in a real fight Yeah it's a move It is a move It's a way to go It's definitely the way to go He crush a man's taters Or take away his ability to breathe The fight's pretty much over There was actually a MMA fight Where that took place Back when there was no rules There was a guy named the Pedro And he was fighting a guy And big daddy goodrich And big daddy reached into his pants And grab the whole this cock and balls And crushed it in his hand See this guy What the fuck?

[866] Just grabbing dicks, man. The guy on the bottom is grabbing a dick.

[867] He's holding that guy's hog.

[868] It's rude.

[869] But that's how they wrestled back then.

[870] They didn't give a fuck.

[871] The dick was something you could also hold on to.

[872] You can hold on to the foot.

[873] Why can't you hold onto the dick?

[874] So they were yanking on dicks and pulling people along.

[875] Boy, they really turned it up back then, didn't they?

[876] They had to.

[877] How long were they living?

[878] You know?

[879] I mean, if you were one of these bad motherfucker wrestler dudes, how much time did you have to be that guy?

[880] Look at that.

[881] Look at that.

[882] Dick.

[883] Roll around in the dirt and then I'm going to eat some grapes.

[884] That guy's got a giant orgy and watch a lion eat my friend later on today.

[885] That's a day.

[886] Look at the apple on the end of that guy's dick.

[887] Jesus Christ.

[888] Who the size of his hog?

[889] If that was real, he was hard.

[890] This is sex then.

[891] This is not fight for the death.

[892] That guy's getting off on that.

[893] Or if he doesn't, if he's not getting hard, and that's just how big his dick is when it's soft.

[894] This is not at all where I thought we would end up today on my way over here.

[895] But it has to be said.

[896] Last time we think we talked about Bigfoot.

[897] Yeah, I'm going to know new opinions on that.

[898] Oh, I got a big foot story.

[899] Really?

[900] No, I think I already told it.

[901] I made it, I think, did I?

[902] I was going out, when I used to live out West a long time ago, my buddy and mine were driving up to this little town called Leavenworth, Washington to go check out.

[903] There's like this weird little Aspen Swedish ski town in fucking northern Washington where you go get your potato soup.

[904] That's another story, though.

[905] and we stopped at one of these roadside coffee stands which are every 300 feet in Washington State but this one was on like this sort of timber road going up through the forest and you pull over speaking of Harry and Henderson's wow it's all serendivitous but we get out of the car and the wooden statue from the beginning of that movie is like in the driveway I don't ever see it was this old Sasquatch statue and that's where I remembered it from I was like that looks just like this thing from right there.

[906] Yep.

[907] And no, that's not that's badass though.

[908] Is there a lot of Bigfoot sightings out there?

[909] Well, funny you should mention that.

[910] We were stopping and we're getting coffee from this lady and I'm like, you know, whatever, trying to talk about the statue from the movie, she's like, yeah, they stopped and filmed here.

[911] And then she pulls out these she had these old photo books, like family photo albums, like huge photo albums, two or three of them at least, full of Polaroids.

[912] of Sasquatch that her family had taken in this house supposedly it's the greatest idea to sell coffee ever Polaroids like photographs like fucking old of a real of photos of how bad they look that's what she really wanted us to think right yeah there was just so many of them I remember thinking like god she really went to some trouble here man because there was like giant photo albums of Sasquatch and they were all Sasquatch photos they taken off their back porch or out the windows of the house because they lived right off the side of the road and it was just fucking wilderness you know and that's my satisfaction story was there any of them that made you go not a damn one because i don't believe in bigfoot so it definitely used to be a real thing i think that's what i think you think at one time it definitely existed and they're all gone there's an animal called the gigantopithecus right you know about that one right that was a real thing so that was basically a big foot there's an eight foot tall gigantic gigantic bipedal ape so they know that that was real so if that was real it's entirely possible that one of them made it across the bearing landmass with human beings entirely possible because they were from Asia and they were from Asia a right around yety yeah yety yeah yety um neander I mean um Sasquatch you could there's like a bunch of different names for them but it was a real animal that lived I think they found bones that were as recent as a hundred thousand years So anatomically modern humans definitely lived in the presence of this thing.

[913] So what do you attribute all the sightings to in the last?

[914] Bullshit.

[915] Yes.

[916] Hurt bears.

[917] Hurt bears.

[918] Right.

[919] Bears hurt their paw.

[920] They walk on behind feet.

[921] They do it all the time.

[922] I think most of it's bullshit.

[923] The reason why I say that is because there's no real compelling evidence other than like a couple of footprints that you think someone could have failed.

[924] And you actually had a, you didn't you like, you had a show for a while?

[925] You wanted to talk to all these crazy folks.

[926] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[927] Were you ever at any time, like, this guy might have saw something.

[928] One lady I think saw something.

[929] I don't think she was lying, but I think she probably saw a wounded bear, and she saw it very briefly.

[930] And the real problem with people's memory, especially in some situation that freaks you out, like you think you might have saw a Sasquatch, your brain starts fucking with you.

[931] It starts filling in the blanks with a bunch of shit, and then you start repeating that shit as if it's the actual...

[932] There's a name for that, something.

[933] Yeah, I don't know what it is.

[934] But I would imagine if you're, if you've, I'm sure you've been, you lived in Seattle for a while, right?

[935] For a little while.

[936] So you know what it's like when you go up into those mountains.

[937] It's, like, so thick.

[938] It's beautiful.

[939] Unbelievable.

[940] I mean, if I was going to go fuck off and get lost somewhere, that would be...

[941] Dude.

[942] That's some real wilderness, man. Mount Rainier, right?

[943] Yeah.

[944] God, it's gorgeous.

[945] But the wilderness is so dense.

[946] I always describe it as, like, trying to look through a box of Q -tips.

[947] It's like a petri dish.

[948] Yeah.

[949] They just...

[950] And the ground is so soft and smushy from all the pine needles.

[951] So my point is, this lady saw something in the distance.

[952] She saw elk running, right?

[953] And then she saw something standing up, and she looked at its face, and she realized it was an ape.

[954] She's like, oh, my God, I see an ape.

[955] How is there an ape?

[956] And then she said to herself, oh, it's Bigfoot.

[957] That's Bigfoot.

[958] And then it went over through this patch of timber, because everything's super, super dense, you know, 10, 20 yards further, and you can't see it anymore.

[959] She lost it completely.

[960] But it makes sense that a bear was chasing elk.

[961] That's what they do.

[962] They do it all the time.

[963] They're probably chasing elk.

[964] There's probably a fawn.

[965] They're probably trying to get it, and the bear might have been hurt.

[966] They know how good that shit tastes.

[967] Yeah.

[968] And the bear might have been hurt, in which case, which happens all the time.

[969] And when bears are hurt, they walk on two legs.

[970] So if you're looking at this thing, bears can grow nine feet long.

[971] That's real.

[972] Black bears can be nine feet long, a really big black bear.

[973] So if you're looking at this thing in the Pacific, it's probably rare, but they could be seven feet all day.

[974] You can find a bunch of seven foot black bears.

[975] Those are legitimate.

[976] So this black bears walking around seven feet tall, standing.

[977] up on its hind legs and you're seeing it through the trees 30 yards away you're like oh my god I see big foot so in her head I don't think she was lying I think she definitely saw a big ass animal she saw she saw elk running and she saw she saw a big ass animal in pursuit but it easily could have been a bear and she could have filled in the blanks in her mind with all these false memories right that are attributing like oh I saw its face it looked at me it made a noise and all that stuff like people get wacky like you think you saw something and you didn't There's no bodies.

[978] That's the problem.

[979] There's nothing, like, no one's found shit.

[980] No one's found anything.

[981] Not a single fucking bone.

[982] I mean, they found this gigantic piticus bone in an apothecary shop in China.

[983] Then they did a dig.

[984] They went back to the spot.

[985] These anthropologists said, where the fuck did you get this?

[986] They had this giant primate tooth that wasn't a gorilla, it wasn't a human being.

[987] They're like, where did you get this?

[988] And they take them to the spot where they got it.

[989] And they find bones.

[990] They find jaw bones that indicate that it was bipedal.

[991] It's kind of controversial.

[992] apparently, but apparently by the way that Jaws designed, they knew that this thing stood upright.

[993] And it's huge.

[994] I don't know.

[995] I met some dudes from Stornoway, Scotland once, which they looked like they were from another planet.

[996] They were like the biggest fucking people I've ever seen in my life.

[997] There was four or five of these guys at this little music festival in Kilkenny, Ireland, and they'd all come down for the festival.

[998] And these, I mean, I'm not shitting, man. They were the biggest people I've ever seen.

[999] And they were like, all of them.

[1000] They were just like, fucking mountain men.

[1001] and just blocked out the light when they walked through the door and have these long gray hair and beards and shit and they're like, you should come up and play and Storn away.

[1002] Fuck that.

[1003] It only takes eight fucking fairies to get there, you know?

[1004] It's just like, I would actually love to go up.

[1005] I think of those dudes whenever I think of those Atlas Stones.

[1006] Do you know what Atlas Stones are?

[1007] Like the most manly way to work out ever?

[1008] You're basically picking up these enormous balls of stone and these dudes lift them and they get them on their chest, they hoist them onto these blocks.

[1009] They have contests to see who can, like when they do those strongman contest, they pick those Atlas stones up and put them on progressively higher and higher shelves.

[1010] Giant.

[1011] Giant people.

[1012] Yeah.

[1013] Balls.

[1014] Giant stone balls.

[1015] Those people, I mean, those are the ancestors of the Vikings, for sure, right?

[1016] 100%.

[1017] That's where the Vikings turned around, I think.

[1018] Yeah.

[1019] I'm not mistaken.

[1020] They got there and they were like, fuck this.

[1021] They shot loads into everybody.

[1022] They got wintertime, and then they bailed.

[1023] Let's fuck this place.

[1024] It's always raining.

[1025] Let's get out of here.

[1026] They took off.

[1027] Too depressing.

[1028] I got some really good buddies now.

[1029] In Glasgow, all musicians you meet over the years tour.

[1030] And a couple guys, particularly that if I go over, sometimes I'll do a little pickup band with these guys.

[1031] And they're both like hard glass weeons.

[1032] And my friend Lloyd went to the last time I was over there.

[1033] He took me up on a proper car trip up to the high islands and back down.

[1034] And one day I think we got as far as like.

[1035] oban or anyway but yeah there's there's parts of that stuff it's it just it looks like you're on another planet man i can't even describe it look i remember we got out of the car in a couple places and you try to wrap your head around how ancient that shit is and everything that took place there and and and how you know how one we're just standing outside the car on the side of the road and i'm like i'm fucking freezing to death you know in the middle of august it's just a raining literally upside down and it's not even raining you're just like this it's some harsh brutal shit always cold always wet always cold always wet even when it's not somehow I don't understand it would be like sunny and a mile and a half later there's like a blizzard and it was just like fucking mental man but it looked like another planet I felt like this could have been a setting out of Star Wars or something yeah if you think about it when you think about Scottish people you always think of hearty right oh yeah hardy tough people that's like instantly comes to mind Well, you know, another weird thing about it is you always appear to Americans, especially, like, where you're from, your ancestry and this and that.

[1036] And I grew up in eastern Kentucky and then moved to central Kentucky.

[1037] But, like, most of the early settlers in the Appalachian region was, like, predominantly Scotch -Irish and some German.

[1038] So the first time I went to Scotland to play music, I had jet lag.

[1039] And the first morning, I woke up, like, really early, you know, and I was like, fuck, well, I might as well go walk around and check.

[1040] things out and get out of the city and everything's kind of coming to life and people are going to work and I'm looking around at the faces man and it realizes like yep this I might as well be in hazard Kentucky right now it's the same stoic very guarded you know uh disposition but then like once you get to know them and especially once you become friends they're just like they would do anything for you but it's very regal stoic working class city there's something really special Magic by Glasgow.

[1041] But it just kind of hit me like, this is definitely where my fucking people came from.

[1042] You know, like, that might as well be my uncle Bobby right there.

[1043] Damn.

[1044] The people that live there today, man, like, they get to go by castles and shit.

[1045] There's castles near there.

[1046] You drive by a castle.

[1047] And how old are those castles?

[1048] Like, what's the oldest castle in Scotland?

[1049] I'm not sure with the oldest one.

[1050] I mean, there's...

[1051] Like, what's an old one?

[1052] A thousand years old?

[1053] I think the one in Edinburgh is probably 1 ,200 years old.

[1054] old.

[1055] Wow.

[1056] Got been a penicillin.

[1057] Imagine.

[1058] Imagine going back and look at it out.

[1059] 12, 14, 1 ,600 years.

[1060] We played a, there was somewhere in Ireland, this little town, and across the street in the hotel was this guard tower that had been there for 1 ,300 fucking years.

[1061] And there was, like, Viking boats they had on display around.

[1062] I'm just thinking, yeah, somebody, a thousand years ago was up in that window with a bow and arrow.

[1063] Like, you know.

[1064] That's all they had.

[1065] That's all they had.

[1066] shooting arrows down at invading people.

[1067] It gives you perspective, though, when you, especially, Europe in terms of old world isn't that old when you think about China or a lot of Southeast Asian cultures.

[1068] You know, you're talking about 10 ,000, 15 ,000.

[1069] But, like, Europe is a good example for me. Every time I go, he gives me perspective because you think about everything happening in our country.

[1070] And everybody's like, oh, it's fucking going to hell.

[1071] And, you know, we're such a baby.

[1072] Yeah.

[1073] You know, there's churches over there that are five times older than the United States.

[1074] and it's still working somehow yeah the oldest shit we have was like when I was living in Boston there was a cemetery that you can go to where you could see tombstones from like the 1700s and you can barely read it you can barely they're all weathered and worn out because it's like tap that shit with yeah in the 1700s and you could just go over and touch it's right there but people touch it too much because it's got uh the numbers are all fucking worn off and shit look at that one right there which this one it's from that's a cathedral built in 1471.

[1075] It's the oldest building in Glasgow, I think.

[1076] 1471.

[1077] The coolest gig I ever played was in London at, it's called St. Pancras.

[1078] It's this old church building, which I think, you know, monks at one time, it was, they built it acoustically and designed it out of stone for choirs, like chamber choirs, and they didn't even have a PA, it was just meeting an acoustic guitar.

[1079] I remember sitting there thinking, like, it was the, you know, the, you know, it was the, the most insanely beautiful natural reverb I'd ever heard in my life.

[1080] Wow.

[1081] It's a really, it's like right around King's Cross, you know, kind of a busy intersection, but I think...

[1082] Is that it right there?

[1083] St. Pancras?

[1084] No, that's the train station.

[1085] Oh.

[1086] Look at St. Pancras, old church.

[1087] It was really special, though.

[1088] I remember walking in for soundcheck and I was like, I don't give a fuck if anybody comes tonight.

[1089] I just get to sit here and play my guitar in this room.

[1090] Is it right here?

[1091] That's it.

[1092] Yeah, it's like a little pewed building.

[1093] And so the way they built the whole place reverberates, all the rounded edges and everything?

[1094] Actually, that's the side hole.

[1095] And then there was a, that's, see the one third from the right?

[1096] The darker one?

[1097] Yeah, the dark.

[1098] That's it.

[1099] Whoa.

[1100] Wow, that's beautiful, man. Yeah, it was really special.

[1101] So if somebody wanted to look at this, Jamie, what is the image, if someone's listening to this?

[1102] St. P -A -N -C -R -A -S.

[1103] P -N -C -R -A -S.

[1104] How beautiful is that construction?

[1105] It's the oldest standing house of worship.

[1106] I don't want to hope I'm not misquoting this, but I think it's like the oldest church in the United Kingdom.

[1107] And it's in the center of London.

[1108] Wow.

[1109] So they designed it so that people could play acoustically.

[1110] It was made.

[1111] It was built to sing in.

[1112] Like you just do like, oh, it's just go, go, go, go, go.

[1113] Does the thing that the old keyboard effects just have built in.

[1114] It's that, like, that bloom on everything.

[1115] When I was a kid, I lived down the street from this place, called echo bridge and echo bridge is this uh it's uh near instant newton upper falls and it's this place where we'd all go hang out and drink but if you get underneath the bridge it gave you this crazy echo just like ridiculous dickless hello and uh that's shit geeks like me walk around constantly listening for yeah every kid in my high school thought he was billy squire when you go down there you know lonely is the night when you find yourself alone you'd be screaming it like a fucking dork remember we knew how to do the Van Halen thing on her notebook the VH the logo that's my first concert yeah man that freaked me out Van Halen they were amazing I had a buddy I used to work at this grocery store in Nashville when I was out kicking it around and this guy was he's really cool he's older he's in his 50s and he was local grew up in Nashville and it was a big music guy you know and so he saw like every show that ever came through in the 70s and 80s we kind of grew up in that and he was he'd always like tell me about the shows you know because he remember he saw van halen at the little coliseum in Nashville like down on the north side of town back in I think he said 77 so it was before the first album had come out and they were opening for black Sabbath and you know but this time deep purple and all these like riff rock bands were just sort of the thing wow and he said these guys come out and he said it was like a bomb exploded in that fucking in place man like Eddie's like doing back flips off his aunt and all that crazy shit nobody never heard that stuff you know wow and he said then Sabbath came out and everybody basically walked out after the third song because like they realized they had just seen what was next wow man I saw kiss when I was like 10 10 or 11 years old I saw them live were you into them or so did you totally yeah you were yeah I was really really into him and my uncle worked for their advertising company that designed their album covers.

[1116] Howard Mark's advertising company, they're the ones that did.

[1117] Well, he's a genius.

[1118] Howard Marks?

[1119] The marketing.

[1120] Yeah, whoever was handling the marketing on that shit.

[1121] Yeah.

[1122] Well, it was my uncle Vinnie and his friend Dennis were the artists.

[1123] They would make the album covers.

[1124] That's crazy.

[1125] Yeah.

[1126] So I get to meet Ace Freely without his makeup.

[1127] I was like 11.

[1128] Ace Freelie is actually the first guy who ever did the harmonic tapping on tape.

[1129] That Eddie later got all the acclaim.

[1130] He took it and ran with it, but I think the first time that was ever recorded was on a kiss song.

[1131] Somebody using that technique.

[1132] He was fucking phenomenal, man. Apparently a really nice guy, too, right?

[1133] I don't know.

[1134] I never met him.

[1135] I know that he didn't get along with some of the other guys, like Gene Simmons and Paul Stanton.

[1136] Because they're all fucking pricks.

[1137] The Ace, I think, is supposed to be like the sweetheart, the guy that's...

[1138] Maybe.

[1139] Maybe.

[1140] Paul Stanley was nice.

[1141] He was a nice guy.

[1142] Gene Simmons has been nice to me. You know, obviously everybody knows.

[1143] It's part of their thing, man. I get it.

[1144] Yeah.

[1145] I mean, they were just, they were rock stars.

[1146] They've been rock stars for so long.

[1147] I mean, think about that.

[1148] They were rock stars in the 70s.

[1149] They were still today.

[1150] They were rock stars when it meant something else.

[1151] It's a different.

[1152] I'm not sure if it even is necessary.

[1153] Do we really need, like, whatever that is?

[1154] Of rock stars?

[1155] Yeah.

[1156] Here's the problem.

[1157] We know too much about them.

[1158] All the mystery.

[1159] he's gone.

[1160] You know, it used to be like, Robert Plant would come down on fucking magic carpet.

[1161] We didn't know where he was coming from, you know?

[1162] He would show up.

[1163] He probably at the time thought he was on one, you know?

[1164] And just think about Robert Plant in his prime, right?

[1165] Who the fuck ever saw anything like that before?

[1166] They were taking Elvis off the Ed Sullivan show because he was shaking his hips.

[1167] Robert Plant has got a piece on him and it's pressed up against his pants.

[1168] His pants are as tight as a glove.

[1169] He's got no shirt.

[1170] His, like, his shirt is completely open, right?

[1171] He's completely bare -chested, long hair.

[1172] and a voice that you never heard before.

[1173] He never heard someone sing like, hold out of love.

[1174] I mean, it's just, he's doing something different.

[1175] He's got some new thing going on.

[1176] And you don't know shit about him.

[1177] There's no fucking podcast that he does.

[1178] He doesn't have a Twitter page where he says stupid shit about Trump.

[1179] Yeah, they actually never did any interviews or any radio.

[1180] And he didn't release singles.

[1181] Yeah.

[1182] Actually, a lot of people didn't know.

[1183] You hear all these classic songs on the radio now, but they'd never put single.

[1184] They refused to do singles.

[1185] They didn't do press.

[1186] dude there you wanted to see lead zeppelin you had to go to the show yeah look at his cock look at it look at his cock he wants you to press it up against his pants of course he does i mean i don't know if he had a sock there but i want to believe i want to believe that he was just up there sling a dick a dude was like 17 when that first record came out imagine he wasn't even the first choice they went through a few people jimmy page did when he put the band together uh one of my favorite singers of all time i love robert plant but always felt like if Steve Marriott, I always wanted to hear what that would sound like if he'd into the guy from Humble Pie.

[1187] Fucking incredible voice.

[1188] Was he supposed to be?

[1189] I'm not, I want to say maybe Page wanted him, but he couldn't do it.

[1190] I know they'd talk to maybe Rod Stewart.

[1191] Wow.

[1192] As was the faces at the time or earlier.

[1193] I know Robert Plant wasn't choice number one.

[1194] And they had to talk Bonneman to taking the gig.

[1195] Page and John Paul Jones had known each other through session work in the mid -60s.

[1196] and when the yard birds broke up, Jimmy somehow thought he had rights to the name and he wanted to put together like a super band of all his favorite musicians he played with.

[1197] And Bonham was recommended by the bass player, John Paul Jones, but they had to go and talk him into it because he was playing when bands at the time that paid him a lot more money.

[1198] Wow.

[1199] And Jimmy's like had to explain what they were trying to accomplish and sell him on the idea.

[1200] But that was sort of a, like, everyone talked about bands that are put together by labels it wasn't jimmy page was a genius and a very you know visionary kind of guy so he knew he needed to build this band to take over the world and that's what he did wow great producer too to fucking phenomenal guitarist right uh probably one of the most inventive guitar players ever a lot of people say sometimes especially later when he's on the morphine sometimes it can be a little sloppy but I like that.

[1201] I like, I hate perfect.

[1202] It's probably nothing more boring than perfect.

[1203] Is that, is the sound of a guitar similar to like a voice?

[1204] Like sometimes the dude will have a raspy, crazy, fucked up voice and it just makes it, right?

[1205] I mean, yeah, any real artist player with an instrument, it doesn't matter what the guitar is or the amp or anything.

[1206] Like, anybody that has their thing, they can pick up anything.

[1207] And within like three notes, you just know it's that person, you know.

[1208] What do you think of that?

[1209] How do you say his name?

[1210] Ray LaMontaine, is that how you say it?

[1211] Yeah, he's like a songwriter.

[1212] Do you know that song, Jolene?

[1213] I do.

[1214] Yeah, he's got a really cool voice, man. My buddy Dan did a record with him, and I've never met him, but no, he's a, I think a really cool vibe.

[1215] Dude, his voice is insane.

[1216] I think he's kind of like, he was sort of, if I'm not mistaken, I'm going to be like, well, sort of like came into it later like I did.

[1217] He had jobs and shit before and then just started doing it.

[1218] That makes sense.

[1219] found success later on.

[1220] I think that makes sense with a lot of people, man. I just think people like Justin Bieber, like, he's got a way harder road.

[1221] It's a way harder road to try to figure out who the fuck you are.

[1222] Like, all things considered, he's probably handling it okay.

[1223] He's handling it phenomenally.

[1224] You think about, he was what, fucking eight?

[1225] He's only 24.

[1226] He's 24 years old.

[1227] Holy shit.

[1228] And all this has already happened.

[1229] Just turned 24.

[1230] And he's rolling around.

[1231] on a G7 that's his day to day he does whatever the fuck he wants all the time you know you don't pay attention to things I'm not like a I'm not glued into pop culture but somehow like you just can't not know what Justin Bieber's up to once a month just walking around in the world anymore but I would say that kid for most people to be handed that type of existence and all of that scrutiny and all the shit that comes along with that like that does things to people you know It definitely does.

[1232] Especially if your personality's not even formed yet.

[1233] Yeah.

[1234] I can't imagine.

[1235] Like, I'm so grateful I got into this business at 35.

[1236] Yeah.

[1237] And not 21.

[1238] I was talking to my friend John this weekend about this.

[1239] And I was saying that it's almost like if you made an epoxy, right?

[1240] You know, if you have epoxy, you just put a couple ingredients in.

[1241] Like, there's one thing and you mix it with another thing, then it hardens.

[1242] But if you add some shit in that that's not supposed to be there and it's fully developed, you're not going to take that shit out.

[1243] Like, if you added oil.

[1244] You threw some oil in the epoxy.

[1245] Like, ah, now you fucked that whole thing up.

[1246] That's kind of what you're doing to a person when you raise a person famous.

[1247] If you take some reality star from the time they're five, and then they're in a sitcom and a movie, and then you've gone through your whole...

[1248] I don't know why I said reality star, but you've gone through your whole life if you're that person.

[1249] If you're Justin Bieber, you've gone through your whole life.

[1250] Under that eye.

[1251] And it's gotten bigger and bigger and bigger and more and more people paying attention.

[1252] Like you never had a moment like you did where you're working for the railroad tracks.

[1253] Right.

[1254] Or, like, you know, I did going on the road for years or some of the jobs that I had before I was ever a comedian.

[1255] They don't have any of those.

[1256] They don't have the wondering if you could pay your bill feeling.

[1257] They don't know that feeling.

[1258] They don't have the, you know.

[1259] I see, I still feel like that.

[1260] You know, that's what's fucked up.

[1261] My wife, I'm just like, I'm still like, I just, I'll never not feel like that, you know?

[1262] Yeah.

[1263] From never really had money or anything like that or had any aspirations to own a house or the house or the house.

[1264] those kind of things so it's just uh i'm you know especially with kids now like i just don't there's no flamboyance yeah but now he lives a different life for people like riana these they're like literally citizens of the world and any day of the week they could be in some five -star hotel and god knows where you know yeah god knows where you know it's a crazy way to live very bizarre jet setting flying around I couldn't do it man because there's no way I don't ever I don't ever want to wake up and have that kind of career because it takes so many people around you they're on a daily basis just to maintain and keep something a machine that large rolling logistically speaking that you become enslaved to the job you know what I mean because you have all these there's like there's always this name like when you have superstar x you know you put this head right here and then everything below that just to make that thing go around you know and it just turns into this it's like a corporation really like with 20 semi -trucks and all this shit you know and you got to go out and make that happen because now all these people depend on you for their livelihoods and careers and so then that's going to affect the artistic decisions you make because you have to stay relevant culturally speaking and if you If you want to do something different next time, well, now this massive fan base isn't really going to fucking deal with that very well.

[1265] Like when Beastie Boys put out Paul's boutique.

[1266] Exactly.

[1267] People went, what the fuck?

[1268] They won't what the fuck, but now it's one of the class, most greatest records ever made.

[1269] But people back then didn't know what to handle it.

[1270] They didn't know what to do with that.

[1271] They didn't have the Beastie Boys classified in the artist box.

[1272] Right.

[1273] They had them in the pop music box.

[1274] So this is silly.

[1275] You got to fight for your right to party.

[1276] We get it.

[1277] You guys are partiers.

[1278] Cool.

[1279] And then all of a sudden, you know, Paul's boutique is like, whoa, what is this?

[1280] I mean, like, David Bowie went from Ziggy Stardust to doing a soul album in like nine months with Luther Vandross.

[1281] Yeah, wow.

[1282] Those are huge, classic, amazing records now.

[1283] But, like, you realize those guys were playing theaters when all that shit happened.

[1284] Whoa.

[1285] And he's just like, I'm done with this.

[1286] I'm going to go do this now.

[1287] You literally can't see anymore because I fucking killed it on stage.

[1288] Yeah.

[1289] That's over.

[1290] You know.

[1291] Do you think Rod Stewart gets enough credit?

[1292] I don't, actually.

[1293] I don't either.

[1294] I think, especially manned faces, and even those early solo records, those are some amazing albums.

[1295] His voice is incredible.

[1296] You know what happened to him?

[1297] What?

[1298] The hits.

[1299] You got too much pussy.

[1300] Do you think I'm sex?

[1301] Fride his brain.

[1302] Half you on my pot.

[1303] Once he hit that, everybody's like, check please.

[1304] He's like, wait, that's all I got to do?

[1305] Because remember, like, go back to Maggie May, you know?

[1306] Wake up, Maggie.

[1307] Like, that song was, that was, there was something in that song, right?

[1308] There was a guy trying to figure his life out, hanging out with some chick.

[1309] Rod Stewart's a badass man. Oh, man. What is that song?

[1310] Is he called Maggie May?

[1311] Yeah.

[1312] Him and Elton John, all those guys, like, that's, yeah, he was a beast.

[1313] He was a different level.

[1314] But then he started wearing, like, leopard tight pants and shit.

[1315] Because he could.

[1316] I mean, look at that shit.

[1317] It ain't like it's not working, you know what I mean?

[1318] Look at him.

[1319] Look at him.

[1320] He actually was a, I think he almost.

[1321] play professional soccer for Celtic or somebody.

[1322] Wow.

[1323] He's like a really great soccer player when he was a kid, but he was too small.

[1324] And he's another one, right?

[1325] That like, basically, like, you're never going to see one of those again?

[1326] No, I don't think so.

[1327] You're never going to see a lot of things again just because there's just no nobody that's...

[1328] Actually, that might, you know, that's not necessarily true.

[1329] You might see more things now because...

[1330] That's true, too, right?

[1331] You know, I'm getting ahead of myself.

[1332] Like, you know, for all intents...

[1333] I shouldn't be here.

[1334] Right.

[1335] It's true.

[1336] that it wasn't an industry creation right so now like anything really is possible yeah that's a good point you just have to fight and sift through so much shit most of it mediocrity to get to something that really hits you or that you connect with well i think that you're also saying this out of your own personal experiences where you realize you could you could have not been you like easily you could have not turned out into being you oh if i'd have sat down in a room with a bunch of people who know what's best i wouldn't have been me yeah you and most of people that are successful you know we my first record we did shop to a few labels um in town but you know it was a little bit ahead of the whole neo trad curve that sort of kicked off in the last few years i made this really traditional country record and uh but it was it was like hard country it was very uh like an album i always wanted to make and we shopped it to a few people and they just didn't really know it wasn't the right time so nothing came of it.

[1337] So we self -released it.

[1338] So then when I did the second one, the Meta -Modern, and now I've got this whole record about, like, you know, mine, the journey of a soul or a mind or whatever, talking about turtles and fucking tripping and shit.

[1339] Right.

[1340] I was like, I knew nobody's going to get this.

[1341] Like, I can waste time trying to find somebody release it or we can just put the damn thing out.

[1342] And I'm so glad we did it that way, just because I know what happened was a result of people here.

[1343] it and sharing that with their friends 100 % that's how I found out about it I found out about it for people online and I got to tell you the the cover of it threw me off at first the cover of it I was like that was me being a smart ass because I was like there's all this like uh you know you go to these festivals and stuff I'm like a grown ass man you know what I mean we're fucking stupid jobs like now I was in this all of a sudden in this position of going out playing all these festivals and looking at these kids and stuff doing it and all and it's great you make a lot of friends but there's a lot in any industry there's a lot of uh people like for the wrong reasons you know what i mean like chasing something that they want to see themselves in as opposed to something they see within themselves right right and so we started doing these festivals and there's a lot like what they call like the younger hipster kids and stuff when they had these tin type photos that were really popular a few years ago and i was like well how can i out hipster the hipsters so i'll do a painting of a tin type photo and surround it by like the tackiest outer space my buddy that I did the thing with we were actually trying to make the worst album cover of the year we ended up we ended up making a top 10 list on Rolling Stone we didn't get the cherry but I was like let's just make the tackiest fucking thing we possibly can like those cheesy fonts and it's kind of crazy because the music was to me was so heavy and personal and real so I was like God I mean I don't want to be we kind of wanted to make fun of like the dude levitating in the fucking cave before before people turn you into that, you know what I mean?

[1344] Because, like, that's not at all.

[1345] A lot of the shit was just stuff I'd been reading about or, you know, you're in character.

[1346] Yeah, but it was psychedelic country music.

[1347] It was, like, well, which is a lot, I love a lot of 60s, rock, and some of my favorite country records ever made were made in the late 60s.

[1348] Some of the, like, Gene Clark and some of the early Vern Gosden brothers type stuff.

[1349] There was this level of psychedelia in the production that made it so beautiful.

[1350] I've got to get a list of shit, though.

[1351] Yeah, I'll throw you up some shit, man. But then, young, talented guys, and I was kind of a taskmaster, so it was such a young band because they wanted to play loud and you got to pull things back or, like, you can only have this symbol, that kind of thing, get it down to the structure of the songs.

[1352] And we spent like three months on the road just carving those songs out in the arrangements.

[1353] And I had it pretty much, you know, duck pussy type, which is waterproof.

[1354] And then, you know, we came off the road and went right into the studio the next day for four days and just banged it out.

[1355] Oh, wow.

[1356] So you just were in the groove.

[1357] Yeah, basically just plug up like five mics.

[1358] Don't move anything and just lay it all down.

[1359] And then Dave and I are with the mixing.

[1360] And then he had some great ideas in post -production, like getting the sounds around.

[1361] But then you come back and we had all these separated recordings.

[1362] So to me, I've realized the real fun is putting everything in sequence and making these cycle to maximize, I guess, the emotiveness of the records.

[1363] Right.

[1364] In terms of a roller coaster of emotions, you know, instead of just one.

[1365] So like every time we do it now, it's always.

[1366] different.

[1367] Like the record I did after that was recorded that one a totally different way.

[1368] Still going fast, but, you know, I always wanted to make a big kind of lush orchestral soul record.

[1369] And then what I've learned is that I don't want to be in the music business because I'm just going to be in the Sturgle business.

[1370] Ah.

[1371] Because there's like the mechanical timeline of it all.

[1372] By the time we go in and make that record, you're so you've been processing and thinking about it so much for for months and you get in and you have that release and it's it's like i equate it to driving in a really heavy downpour rainstorm for like an extended period of time which is like there's a mental exhaustion that comes for it but you have to just kind of like keep going and but by the time it's finished and mixed you've heard this thing like a thousand times you don't ever want to hear it again but now you got to go out and play it on the road every night for year and a half so we were kind of constantly trying to reinvent every night how to keep that fresh and exciting while while holding the pause button on going over here and recording what creatively you may already be on to wow so i'm i realize this year i'm going to take the reins and we'll do like i'm going to play 30 festivals because those things are always so fun just go out and get all the energy in your face and then we're going to do probably a double album and another record and just and record it all so that when i do turn i want to go do like a really big long two -year tour we have all this new material and the old stuff to pull from.

[1373] I like how you're approaching it.

[1374] So you're approaching like a plan.

[1375] It is a plan.

[1376] You have to look at it like a plan.

[1377] Do you think everybody does that?

[1378] Well, there's all kinds of different plans.

[1379] I just know what works for me. I've learned more importantly what works for my family and my sanity.

[1380] I don't need to go play 300 shows a year.

[1381] Yeah.

[1382] I don't, you know, I'd rather go play 30 or 60 shows and know that every one of those was 110 % as opposed to, you know, you got the Tuesday and Wednesday shows to get you to this weekend market where everybody's counting their checks already and shit and you're exhausted.

[1383] And then the show suffer and these people pay money or maybe they don't realize that like you can't hear anything for 40 minutes because you don't ever want to project negativity from the stage if you can help it.

[1384] But there's, you know, the bad nights.

[1385] I just want every night to be great.

[1386] And then, but most importantly right now, for me, the fun is the studio and the process of trying to, to push it and get to what's next yeah you do totally different albums every time you put an album out it's a completely different feel i'm a music listener and lover first informant probably a music college is more than a musician at this point yeah i mean i guess that's my field of study musicologist yeah if i had to like say that i have obsessed over one subject enough to where somebody should probably give me a fucking piece of paper that says i know what i'm talking about it's probably music um did you when did it start like did you have this your whole life early early early yeah whole life wow probably honestly first time um from michael jackson maybe i was like you know what's kind of fucked up about this what you wouldn't have been you if you didn't come into this so late no hell no but think about your whole but think of your whole life right your whole life you loved music yeah you could have easily just been on a path from the time you were in high school always played right but I'm glad I never like recorded anything right until yeah because when you're younger you know like Eric Clapton I love Eric Clapton huge influence never met the guy but there's a great documentaries came up but you can look back in his career he was so young and passionate and talented uh there's one particular record he did with a guy named john mail was like kind of the birth of like rock and roll guitar tone it's the first time everybody plugged a lest paul into a marshal and just cranked the fucking thing and that record that sound everybody was like whoa like that was a thing that happened but you can look at his career and he was such a chameleon going through all these phases and a lot of it was emulation or reinterpretation because he you know got into substance abuse but you can see how much his career shaped him more so than and all the people he'd been around and his friends wasn't exposed to and him rubbing off on them and vice versa wow but you anybody in their 20s is still anybody I know in their 20s is definitely still figuring out who they are as a person much less an artist yeah i'm almost 40 and i'm still figuring out who i am as an artist you know because every year you're gonna feel different every fucking day much less two years from now it's time to make a record yeah and you're gonna change it up as you see fit you're you're gonna go with what what's going on in your mind right now right that's a beautiful thing right you don't have a i mean even though you have like a whole sort of entity behind you in terms of like people carrying your stuff and all the jazz that's going on all the equipment that's involved than doing one of your shows?

[1387] I got very few people.

[1388] How many people you got?

[1389] Myself, three members of the band.

[1390] We have a tour manager.

[1391] We have our side monitor sound guy, the front sound guy, and my merch girl.

[1392] So you got 12 people.

[1393] Nine people on the bus with the drivers.

[1394] So I don't always be in one bus.

[1395] We got one truck to haul the gear and all that shit.

[1396] That's pretty minimal compared to some bands.

[1397] in respect to what you do it kind of shows you do that that is pretty minimal I would like I would keep it there as long as possible no matter what happens just because you know I've never been like a big lights guy or any of that stuff the guys in my band are all pretty amazing players we try to go out and put a show on if you were doing something else though like say if you were a part of a band that band was being promoted very heavily by some record company that had put the band together you know some you know they do like those manufactured bands or something like that you'd be in a situation where you're basically required to do commercially successful and viable music you couldn't just freeball like you're doing and doing whatever you want to do um I honestly I don't know me and all I know is what's happened to me and most of the people most of my friends are people that just kind of do their thing but there is definitely is that element but there's you know I've only I never thought I'd ever sign with a record label really um yeah I'd never had any interest in it whatsoever and the and we you know when things kind of took off we met all of them came knocking um but it was working fine by ourselves just sort of subcontractor of my team and the one thing I the only reason any artist should ever sign with a record label is for a larger recording budgets you know a larger tool toolbox in which to use to make your product, let's call, you know, for lack of a better term.

[1398] So they have like serious places where you can go to, you can get to ridiculous studios and they or not.

[1399] I mean, I still record in the, you know, my favorite studio in Nashville.

[1400] There's nothing fancy about it.

[1401] It's just money for players and gear you might not have and then mixing and And then the more time to spend in the studio, it really is.

[1402] I don't, you know, we did, we did MetaModern in three or four days because we had to.

[1403] It doesn't necessarily, you know, dark side of the moon was made like nine months.

[1404] Was it really?

[1405] I don't know.

[1406] Yeah, it was definitely like two separate extended sessions.

[1407] Wow.

[1408] You know, you don't just, for me, that's the fun, is sitting in that room and figuring out how to break shit and make sounds I haven't heard before.

[1409] And you need time to do that.

[1410] You need, you know, money.

[1411] but you can you can make great records for a very little money too so what's the benefit of having a record company they they pay for the gear well they pay for production the benefit of having a record company is simply um somebody else pockets or you it all comes back on you and you know we don't want to pull the curtain back too much here but you're basically i looked at it as like uh going into business with a bank for at least two records take out a loan that i'm pretty sure i'll never pay back because the recoup you know it's in there but I feel like I'm more of like it all comes down to the bean counters eventually like I you know my records sell two 300 ,000 copies and at some point they'll have to decide whether that's fiscally viable to them anymore because they don't they don't make any money off me unless I sell records you know what I mean like they don't it was a very friendly structured deal like touring and all that publishing shit is completely separate has nothing to do I just make records and they have to sell them.

[1412] Right.

[1413] And I get to make the records that I maybe couldn't or would make on my own.

[1414] I don't know.

[1415] But outside of that, a record company provides marketing or reach or push or even, sadly, in the music business, there's probably less bullshit in politics.

[1416] There may even be less politics in politics.

[1417] You know, I probably would not have been up for album of the year at the Grammys last year had I been on 30 Tigers as opposed to Atlantic records.

[1418] You know what I mean?

[1419] right um no i think it was a great record i know i deserved to be there but it wouldn't have happened if you didn't have that kind of weight at the table that's very honest and that and that can make you feel like jaded against it all or you can be like okay well you know whiz califa they probably spend more money in marketing one single for whiz califa than my entire project costs so because they make all those records and bruno mars or whoever sells 18 gazillion records guys like me get to make records.

[1420] And that's how it works.

[1421] It's a trickle down.

[1422] Right.

[1423] And it's all based on the money that they made from a long time ago, really, and then maintaining some sort of grip on the community now.

[1424] The streaming thing, you know, they're all in bed now with the streaming services.

[1425] Yeah, we've talked about this before.

[1426] You've seen profits steadily climbed back up.

[1427] For them, but not really for artists.

[1428] Not really for the artist.

[1429] Which is crazy.

[1430] I have nothing against Spotify.

[1431] I know people are like, fuck that shit.

[1432] But look at it like this, man. The people that are streaming music, they're not buying records.

[1433] Anyway, but they're still finding your music.

[1434] They're still telling their friends about it.

[1435] They're still coming to your show, which is how we get paid playing shows.

[1436] Yeah, they're still your fans.

[1437] So you have to either embrace it or go fucking do something else.

[1438] Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

[1439] But now when Spotify starts kicking songwriters 12 points, then yeah, I'll do commercials for them.

[1440] Until then, you know, but they are doing, whether you realize it or not, you see, it does count up, but.

[1441] It counts up, but it is a weird thing.

[1442] It's very weird.

[1443] model is based on you selling art and you don't pay for it specifically even with it i feel more like atlantic went into business with me i feel in many ways still feel like a very independent minded artist like no i don't go to meetings nobody's telling me what to do right um i don't have a manager or even technically a publicist at this point i'm just sort of floating and making writing songs and making records and then we go play shows and that's if you could just keep that yeah that's where i've in the last five years figured out where I want to be right and and what parts of it mean and something to me and I know I'm getting and giving back with the fans well I think it's also when if you can stick into that groove you stay in that groove right there you can maintain who you are you can you can you can still explore new ideas you can you're not you're not being pushed too much you know if you were if you were like being pushed to constantly produce new stuff and it could i could imagine that wears on artists i just spent so much my early life working for other people i just made a point one day when i'm before i moved to Nashville i'm not going to do that ever again i don't want to work for anybody else unless it's something somebody i really admire or is like the really exciting creative thing that like i feel like i could benefit from or learn from being involved with i understand a thousand percent what's interesting is when i talk about on the podcast sometimes people who don't do that they do work for someone they have a job they get upset right they feel like it sounds like you're talking down on jobs but the reality is you're working there for money we've all done it everybody's worked for money everybody's work for money some of my job i love the railroad gig if this all gave up tomorrow i actually could be just fine i go back to the railroad and be totally happy going to throw switches 12 hours a day have my four days off make a good salary you know whistle while i work all that shit man yeah like but a plan it doesn't hurt to have a plan B but no working for other people was never something I enjoyed.

[1444] But I think anybody that even hears us say that, the reality is if someone gave them the option, you don't have to work ever again.

[1445] They would go, okay.

[1446] What would you do, though?

[1447] You'd do whatever you want.

[1448] What I would do?

[1449] I would fill my day up with learning shit.

[1450] You're one of the busiest fucking people I know, though.

[1451] You don't have a job, but you're a very proactive human being.

[1452] You know, you do whatever you want all day long, but it doesn't mean you're not working.

[1453] You're not benefiting.

[1454] I do whatever I want, but I earn it.

[1455] Like, I do shit.

[1456] I earn it.

[1457] I feel like I have to have to work.

[1458] The thing with my job is it doesn't feel like work.

[1459] Right.

[1460] There are parts that did feel like work that I identified that really have nothing to do with what I want to wake up and do.

[1461] So now I just don't do those things.

[1462] And now it's like, you know, the travel sometimes feels like work.

[1463] The things that I do don't feel like work.

[1464] This definitely never feels like work.

[1465] Podcasts don't feel like work.

[1466] Stand up doesn't feel like work.

[1467] Working for the UFC doesn't feel like work.

[1468] feel like work.

[1469] Those things don't feel like work.

[1470] But the stuff in between those things to make sure those things work well, that's the work.

[1471] Sure.

[1472] Like working down and writing and stuff.

[1473] Do you handle the day -to -day admin?

[1474] 100%.

[1475] Yeah.

[1476] I don't have anybody.

[1477] I don't have an assistant.

[1478] My take is always, if you need an assistant, just do less shit.

[1479] You don't want someone that you have to constantly check in on and make sure they've got their shit together.

[1480] And I've had some friends that had assistance and then your life becomes their life and your problems come their problems their problems as well anybody you invite into your life you're inviting their problems into your life it's just that's ultimately what i've learned and it's also i don't necessarily think in my case it's necessary maybe other people are more busy and they need assistance and i i have a lot of friends who have assistance a lot you know but i just think i don't function that way i i want to When I wake up, I set my, I have a bunch of shit I'm going to do today.

[1481] I set my alarm clock and I have a schedule.

[1482] But that schedule is mine.

[1483] I made it.

[1484] It's yours.

[1485] Yeah.

[1486] When I went running today.

[1487] You change it whenever you want to.

[1488] Whatever the fuck I want.

[1489] Yeah.

[1490] My tour manager is like the sweetest, most empathetic human being I've ever met.

[1491] And he's not just responsible for me. He's like the babysitter and the mother of the whole family.

[1492] But like sometimes if we've been on the bus for a while or rolling, more than anything to give everybody else a break and do him a favor.

[1493] go off on my own and like stay at a different hotel or I'll go to a different city for two days and he's always like you know he's from new zealand he's like so sweet he's like fucking gigantic and uh he's like would you like me book your room you know no i got it man it's like are you sure he's almost like i almost feel like i'm hurting his feelings because i won't let him like take care of my day it's like motherfucker i got price line you know i mean like i can do this i go you know people don't expect you to be doing that though that's what's interesting right they want to be able to handle it so you don't have to do the mundane thing so normal person.

[1494] So you got eight other people to take care of right now.

[1495] I'm a grown -ass man. Yeah, I would never want to do what you were saying John Lennon did.

[1496] Just lay around, walk around naked, and I can't do it.

[1497] I don't think he liked to work.

[1498] I mean, he was a true artist.

[1499] Yeah.

[1500] I get it.

[1501] I mean, I get it.

[1502] But for me, it's almost like I know what makes me feel like shit and I know what makes me feel good.

[1503] Right.

[1504] What makes me feel good is when I get shit done.

[1505] makes me feel like shit is when I'm lazy.

[1506] Then I get anxiety.

[1507] Depressed.

[1508] I feel weird.

[1509] I don't feel good.

[1510] I don't feel like I'm getting anything done.

[1511] And people think that, oh, because I work hard and I'm constantly doing something that I never feel like that.

[1512] No, I definitely will feel like that.

[1513] That's why I do it.

[1514] I just saw something recently.

[1515] They prove that task completion, your brain releases a chemical that makes you fucking feel great.

[1516] Oh, yeah, man. I did this.

[1517] I did something.

[1518] I have purpose.

[1519] When you finish your album, when you're done.

[1520] It's amazing.

[1521] Oh.

[1522] But it's also.

[1523] terrifying.

[1524] I'm sure.

[1525] Because you're like, God, I got to like release that.

[1526] Yeah.

[1527] People are going to hear that shit, you know?

[1528] But yeah, it does feel like a release is the best way to put it.

[1529] Yeah, I think everybody should experience that.

[1530] Even in a small, I think little kids get that when they earn their fucking karate belts.

[1531] And you see a little kid get a yellow belt and they tie it on.

[1532] They're beaming this face.

[1533] Oh, man. I can't believe it.

[1534] I did it.

[1535] I did it.

[1536] I give my oldest a high five for anything.

[1537] And it's like you see them light up.

[1538] It's just like that affirmation.

[1539] Yep.

[1540] Getting something done.

[1541] They did it.

[1542] It didn't.

[1543] I mean, think about, especially when you're talking about, like, little children, like my seven -year -old loves to draw.

[1544] She's really an art. And, like, she takes a piece of paper.

[1545] This is not a big deal to us as grown men.

[1546] She takes a piece of paper, and that paper is blank.

[1547] And in her little brain, she decides what's going to be on that paper.

[1548] She's like, I'm going to draw a dog.

[1549] And then, boom, it's a dog.

[1550] And I'm going to draw a dog that has a wing and also has a tail and has a tail that grows out of his forehead.

[1551] And they just make wacky shit up.

[1552] thinks it's fucking hilarious like look he's got a tail on his head ha but in her little mind she's learning that she can do whatever the fuck she wants with that time there's nobody there saying you shouldn't do that no one's saying anything and little kids gravitate towards that man when little kids start drawing they gravitate towards this expansion of the creative aspects of your mind like whatever it is in your mind that causes you to have these ideas whatever in your mind that causes you to think up a story that you want to write down or a drawing that you want to try to accomplish and try to put down, those little things to a kid are magical because they didn't have any of that before.

[1553] I mean, they just learned how to talk.

[1554] She's seven.

[1555] She's only been talking for five and a half years, you know, all that other stuff before was gibberish.

[1556] And all of a sudden she's sitting in front of the pad and no one tells her what to do.

[1557] A little seven -year -old, like, hmm, I think I'm going to paint today.

[1558] She gets out the paint and just puts a little this and a little of that, you're flexing those little muscles, you know, just as if you were doing push -ups, you're flexing those creative feels, you know, and to encourage that with kids, that's what we all love.

[1559] We all love doing something.

[1560] And people say, well, I'm not very creative.

[1561] I just like working with wood.

[1562] That is fucking creative.

[1563] Like, carpenter is a goddamn creative.

[1564] You built a house, motherfucker.

[1565] Do you understand?

[1566] I can't do that.

[1567] I can't do that.

[1568] I'm in all of that.

[1569] It's amazing.

[1570] I grew up around construction.

[1571] It's fucking hard to do.

[1572] You build a badass house, that shit is hard to do.

[1573] Or people that are highly mechanically inclined can just take a car completely apart and put it back together in the garage.

[1574] I've always been really envious.

[1575] Guys who build cars, that's art. That's art. That's art. Mechanics.

[1576] There's an art to even being a mechanic, just doing it all perfect, putting it together, using your mind, thinking out how to maybe get bore out this and put that in and swap this out and what's the issue with the vehicle.

[1577] and there's like a there's a there's a creative aspect to anything that's really satisfying and I think that you know we kind of pound that out of kids man yeah I think that's very true we pounded out of them very true well that it has no it doesn't serve capitalism yeah you know so yeah the the the I was saying earlier I had this this train job and the first year I was there I was just like out on the ground like throwing the switches and disconnecting the trains and hook up them back up and that kind of thing.

[1578] And then I got I got promoted to what they call like a yard master or like, well, you're a yard boss and you're in the truck and you're sort of in charge of the inbound and outbound manifest and everything that comes in and how it gets blocked apart and switched over to this track and you're building other trains and you've got to get them out on time.

[1579] And like as soon as they put me in that job, it was like the greatest job ever had because I was playing Tetris.

[1580] You know what I mean?

[1581] I was just like fucking Baron von Moochhaus and in my little fucking truck with my 8 ,000 radios like tearing trains apart and just watching it all like happen and get it out the gate on time and it became like a high you know wow because it's high pressure very dangerous yeah there's only three guys out there making all this shit having got the guy driving the engineer the dude breaking apart and then whoever's on the back like sort of playing the chessboard yeah I was like this is fucking awesome I got a big old thermos all that shit man yeah there's some good jobs for sure but if somebody came up to you in the middle of that good job and said don't have to do this ever again you do whatever the fuck you want you would leave it's a good job that's what i did yeah it's a good job for a job well i fucked up and took a management position after that oh no and these offices totally out of my element getting screamed out on a conference call when some other asshole didn't get the train out on time isn't that crazy because you went from having this cool high pressure job that makes you feel good to making more money but you'd only get that juice anymore yeah i was like man this is way too stable i better be a songwriter you know no i burn out i hit vapor lock because it was just i was like i'm got to go to fucking golf i can't imagine shit with other dudes and khaki pants now like i can't even pretend to be this guy like what am i thinking those are the guys that i think of when i that thoreau quote uh most men live lives of silent desperation yeah those are the men i think of those those men that have fallen into some salary position where they're not happy and they want to get out and they don't know how to well they have they have the the downfall of being highly efficient individuals and other CEOs recognize that and be like I can put you on salary and work you 90 hours a week and you're going to get done because you won't let yourself fail but you'll probably fucking drink five pots of coffee a day and listen sturgle if you keep going you've got a good position in this company I'm telling you you've got a bright future you can make it happen 401k 51 9a I'm making those numbers up all that shit it's crazy it's most people you know people get tired of people hearing this because they don't know what to do and so i didn't know what to do yeah forever i mean i just worked you know but then you do well you know always played music but never thought it was something you could even do for a job right would have known where to go or how to do that until i married somebody a lot smarter to me when i was like man i'm really unhappy and she's like it's because you're supposed to be playing music dumbass and uh so like oh that's probably true so but if you did it earlier you wouldn't be you it's the craziest thing ever it's like you had to go through all that bullshit to get the sound that you have now to get the the soul behind it that you have now sure that's the sound of a man who suffered oh yeah it's a sound of a man who understands that's the woes is me that's real that's a real that's there's a real emotions you know like that jolline song that we're talking about yeah it's you're all lost though man if it had it happened when I was younger it would have been way more interesting to watch I would fuck it up so good and proper right so good and proper yeah no I mean that's props to Justin Bieber we're happy man I'm it's keeping it together it's hard to it's hard to complain yeah it should be you got a great great band family's healthy dude you're in the groove I'm doing my thing as far as I want to you're in what my friend Vinnie Shoreman calls Hakalau it's when you He's a, like a hypnotherapist.

[1582] Trains does a lot of mind work with fighters, like a mind coach.

[1583] And he's like, there's this state that you get in where everything just flows.

[1584] Everything's flows.

[1585] And that's what you've figured out how to do so brilliantly in your life is after you've been through a bunch of bullshit.

[1586] You figured out to get to a place of success and then you're able to just do your thing.

[1587] That's, that's your flow.

[1588] Look, you found your thing.

[1589] Well, yeah, and I had to learn that even in the last few years, you know, because it's so easy when I've always used a metaphor, when you're on the train, it's hard to tell how fast it's going.

[1590] And more importantly, where it's going, because a lot of times you don't really have any control or even say so in that matter.

[1591] In some regards, you don't want to know how the sausage gets made.

[1592] But then I am at a point now where as far as I ever want.

[1593] want to go because I'm I have all the freedom to do what I want right and it might not sell as good or as as as great as the last one did but like I'm having fun and it's going to be okay you know I don't think you're going to have any problems I think the real issues have always been in the past about distribution in terms of like radio play album sales so we don't do anything like you yeah and a guy like you're so locked in you're in you came along at the right time man you came along you're locked in the zeitgeist but you came along in the right time of internet where like you are putting your stuff out it's like all luck and right time i mean definitely not all luck but there was definitely like i'm just really i'm just glad nobody else wrote a song about turtles that year because it would have been very different outcome it would have been like that year that they had the two meteor movies oh yeah yeah right exactly yeah can't have fucking can't have two turtles yeah yeah yeah some got some guy wrote a book this year with the same title of that song man he's getting all conscious shit on is he is he and I was like, I didn't, if I can come up with it, like, don't send this to me. Yeah, people don't want to look into things.

[1594] Yeah.

[1595] Turtles all the way down.

[1596] People don't want to look into things.

[1597] I didn't know what it meant until you explained it.

[1598] I still don't know what it means.

[1599] I just thought, you know.

[1600] Yeah.

[1601] It's cool.

[1602] No, I know what it means, but in a very dumb down sense.

[1603] To make this a standalone podcast, explain to people what turtles all the way.

[1604] Well, it's a jocular expression, more of a funny way to put what is originally a concept.

[1605] As far as I know, that was first described in detail by a j -suit priest named Pierre d 'Archardin, all about the omega point in the universe and how all consciousness omits from this one central point of origin where the whole thing banged out from, and it's all just expanding and reciprocating back to itself and, like, absorbing everything going on.

[1606] It's just one point where all things spiritual, scientific, metaphysical, all matter in the universe, all fucking knowledge omits from and he got blackballed from the Vatican for preaching that.

[1607] Whoa.

[1608] Because he was like, you don't necessarily need to stand in a building to talk to God because God is everywhere and all around you and inside you all the time, whatever you want God to be or, you know.

[1609] So I got it from a Stephen Hawking book where, and it's weird you can go around the world and there's all these ancient civilizations whether it be some Native American tribes or parts of far eastern Asia where they find like these adherence to turtles and elephants in old culture and Hindu mythology.

[1610] There's even a Hindu illustration representing sort of a similar figure or myth that it all set on the back of this great turtle like flying around in space because they held those animals in such regard as old and wise creatures.

[1611] Actually, turtles are the oldest living species on the planet.

[1612] They predate crocodiles.

[1613] Wow.

[1614] And the symmetry of their shell designs, no matter what species, it's always 13 pieces, which a lot of the old tribes thought had something to do with the lunar phases of the sun and how it was all tied in together with, you know.

[1615] Whoa.

[1616] Anyway, long way of saying that that song was written as a result of a lot of fucking reading, not necessarily taking drugs, you know.

[1617] Wasn't that the original, one of the more original calendars?

[1618] Wasn't there like a 13 lunar cycle calendar?

[1619] Yeah, it's a, was it Mayan?

[1620] Yeah.

[1621] Yeah.

[1622] I think that is what it is.

[1623] I think it is a Mayan calendar.

[1624] But all these things I sort of found or symbiocally were connected, I was reading at the time.

[1625] And I was about to have my first child and was just like, man, I want to make a country record about all this shit or like, you know, write a song about the book of the dead.

[1626] But as a traditional country record and then incorporate some classic rock psychedelia.

[1627] So that was all that was.

[1628] That's how I found you.

[1629] people online like yo the dude this guy making psychedelic country music you gotta have them on your podcast but then like everywhere you go people are making like hand you like hand bone glass third eyes and shit you know what I mean like you get some real interesting characters man get a little too many of those throw it out there like that there's too many bongs out there right people still rock the bong though gotta respect that you know it's like driving a manual car I never was a bong guy it's too heavy man I got shit to do man I can't oh the hit just peeled down or the dab thing I got friends in Colorado, California now the first time I ever did with that shit this is a pretty embarrassing story but my buddy they were all like California, Colorado guys they rolled pretty hard.

[1630] I'm not really a heavy smoker man to be honest on the road it keeps me occupied from time of time but if I'm writing maybe but at home it was no need so the first time I did that shit I didn't know what it was you know I just pulled it like it was a big old bong rip and then like everybody's face was like oh you know I need you instantly know you just did something you shouldn't have oh no and uh I was like oh fuck man so I sat down and for a couple minutes I just started getting really cold and clammy and I was like yep I'm gonna puke so I went over and I was like I buck this guy so I puked right in his sink and I was like dude I got to go home I feel like dog shit now and I'm pretty sure I'm dying so uh I had we lived in this apartment and I was like went out the door and turned the corner to go down the hallway to my and it was full -on vertigo like the hallway every time i took a step the hallway got twice as long and i was like this is fucked up my wife was out of the country on work at the time i was like i remember i was sitting down in the hallway just like trying to get my shit together man because i thought i was having a fucking heart attack it was just like like bloop boop boop boop sweating and i remember this voice saying get up you stupid junkie fuck before somebody comes out here and sees you you know sitting in the hallway like a dumb ass and i managed to like pop out of it And as soon as I got back to my place and sat down on the couch, everything was fine.

[1631] But it was just so initial in the rush, I was just like, I don't, nobody needs to be that stone, you know, that fast.

[1632] I'm sorry.

[1633] Yeah, what kind of milligrams are you getting, do you think?

[1634] They just had like that nailhead torch thing with this $3 ,000 glass piece.

[1635] I was like, you guys are taking this shit way too seriously.

[1636] Yeah, they're, you could be curing fucking cancer somewhere right now.

[1637] I'm pretty sure if they put the effort, energy.

[1638] and mind power.

[1639] Have you seen the laser bongs now?

[1640] I got a video since I'm the day like a pressure -activated laser bong.

[1641] He like shoots a beam and ignites the flower.

[1642] Oh, Jesus.

[1643] Like that, why is, what the fuck's that guy, John?

[1644] Come on, man. The thing is they might be curing cancer.

[1645] We've got space colonies that somebody's going to need to build, you know.

[1646] How many cancer patients are taking dabs?

[1647] That might be the key.

[1648] Out here probably a lot.

[1649] Get them on it.

[1650] If I had, if I was dying of thermal cancer, that's when you want to be.

[1651] that high look at this thing do that again Jamie yeah oh that's it look at this thing of course he had to put fucking he hits the light look at this laser this is fucking insane now how do you not go blind staring at this so he's heating it up it's cooking it's a good question and then he takes a big hit wow yeah anyway the medical strength stuff I totally understand and that seems like you go blind like you're staring at a welder yeah you know Do you have to wear a welding mask?

[1652] Somebody very close to my life in my life recently that was dealing with that.

[1653] Vertigo?

[1654] No, like heavy medical issues, health issues.

[1655] And we got him some edibles.

[1656] And he's like it's the only thing that made it okay, like that discomfort.

[1657] And so when I had to have a sinus surgery, we talked about this.

[1658] When we played the Grammys out here last year, I was sick as fuck, man. Like, I was getting all year, for like the last year and a half on road, I was getting these horrible sinus infections all the time.

[1659] And I just assumed it was allergies.

[1660] Tennessee is really bad about that.

[1661] And we'd go to Texas or Atlanta places in October when all these crazy dogwoods are kicking off.

[1662] And I'd lose my voice.

[1663] And, you know, by no fault of my own, it became very frustrating from a touring standpoint because I felt like I was always sick because I was.

[1664] So when we flew out and did the Grammys, I was all plugged up, couldn't sing.

[1665] obviously biggest gig in my life kind of stressing it so the label guy sent me to this doctor who looked up in there and realized I probably had my nose broken at some point or just a really deviated septum when I was younger so I had like a broken air filter but when they did the scan all the cavities were just completely caked with residual bacteria and infection he's like if you get on a plane and fly home you're probably going to get meningitis so we had to play the Grammys and he like nuked me with all this shit I don't even know what he did, but it opened it up for like a day.

[1666] It's where I was able to sing.

[1667] So the next day, the whole band, they flew home.

[1668] I had to stay out here for like nine days, I think, and go in every morning twice a day for IVs for him to clean that shit out so I could fly home.

[1669] Wow.

[1670] So then we came back and did this surgery to correct it all.

[1671] And they went in there and scraped and cleaned them all out and shit.

[1672] And along with the septum, they fixed the septum.

[1673] So I haven't had a single issue since all that happened.

[1674] I haven't been sick one time, which has changed my life.

[1675] But while I was recuperating, long story short, I didn't want to take any of the opioid or the fucking pills that they gave me to deal with the pain.

[1676] I was like, I'm not taking that shit.

[1677] You know, you're going to give me this for four weeks?

[1678] Like, no, no way.

[1679] And so I just got a bunch of medical strength edibles.

[1680] And my wife and the kids, they had to come my way to run a house.

[1681] I had to be here to like recover and shit.

[1682] And man, just laying in bed, listening to headphones stoned out of my mind for like a week recovering.

[1683] And that's kind of awesome.

[1684] Because you feel like when you're actually in pain or when you need that type of, that heavy type of alleviation, what, what it is actually doing and offering you in terms of relief.

[1685] And it gave me a whole new understanding and respect for like the medical side of that shit.

[1686] Here we are back on pot again.

[1687] Yeah.

[1688] And then my buddy who dealt some pretty serious cancer said it was literally the only thing that made him feel better.

[1689] So what did it do for you?

[1690] Like, so you're in this terrible agony.

[1691] Yeah.

[1692] It's all fucked up.

[1693] I had, like, all this gauze and shit.

[1694] And, you know, like, I could feel where they'd been in there, like, behind.

[1695] Scraping.

[1696] Scraping.

[1697] And I could just, you know.

[1698] So, immediately, like, all that was gone.

[1699] And you just sort of get really docile and euphoric and relax.

[1700] I mean, like, so fucking high.

[1701] But, like, it didn't affect me in a, in a overdosey, nauseous sort of way.

[1702] Like, if you eat too many edibles because your body actually needs it.

[1703] Needs it.

[1704] Yeah.

[1705] And I laid there listening to headphones and came up with the record I'm working on now.

[1706] It's great for me because it was like, that's what I want to do.

[1707] next you know um yeah it's a it's a crazy ride those edibles but if you can take that ride you get something out of it and sometimes people take the ride and the feeling is just too too self -examatory too paranoia inducing sometimes people just can't handle it on a mass legality issue i i mean if anything i know it's just going to fuck pot up you know but from a medical stance i do i can't see any reason why we're still even talking about this Yeah.

[1708] You know.

[1709] No, it doesn't make sense.

[1710] We're, we're being fucked over by giant pharmaceutical companies that are making billions of dollars.

[1711] And they would realize how much more money they would be losing every year if marijuana becomes fully legal.

[1712] They've already lost money for sure.

[1713] I guarantee you, there's people that are buying edible marijuana right now that would have bought pain pills.

[1714] They know it.

[1715] Also insurance companies.

[1716] Yep.

[1717] You know, on the job accidents.

[1718] Oh, yeah, we had weed in a system.

[1719] We're not going to pay that.

[1720] So my life insurance now, man, this is crazy.

[1721] I did one of the first interviews I ever did, I think, I talked about, like, the first time I moved to Nashville and how, like, I didn't really know anybody.

[1722] And it was, this is like 2005, and it was a different town then.

[1723] And so, like, basically, and I said, I spent most of my time listening and playing bluegrass and drinking, which is pretty much what everybody does the first year they moved to Nashville.

[1724] But then I said, like, after that, well, I moved out to Utah and got.

[1725] at this job and you got sober was working all the time so somebody put on my wikipedia page that i've talked about my struggles with alcohol and those people read that shit man when i had to get a life insurance policy like they showed up they'd read all the interviews and like wow you've been really open about this and that and i was like yeah and they're like so you do the whole medical test and of course that test positive for THC because i'm on the road all the time and i was like but i don't i don't smoke it you know a vape or edibles like i don't actually i'm not a smoker i never smoke cigarettes, but they list you as a smoker, and now I have, like, a criminally fucking insane yearly life insurance policy, because, of course, like, you know, they think, well, a musician, too, this guy's going to die.

[1726] We can't fucking, you know.

[1727] I have the exact same thing.

[1728] Yeah, it's insane.

[1729] Like, I don't even smoke, but I'm listed as a smoker, and it's like literally $9 ,000, some crazy fucking premium just to make sure my family's okay if I die on a business trip.

[1730] Yeah, they, um, they tested me, and, uh, they said, well, you tested positive for pot.

[1731] I go, yeah, that's because I smoke pot.

[1732] You already know that.

[1733] Like, what are you doing?

[1734] Trying to pretend I'm not healthy.

[1735] Does anybody ever died from smoking pot?

[1736] No, it's stupid.

[1737] It's a dumb thing.

[1738] Unless you think that I'm going to do dumb shit because I'm high all the time, if that's what you think.

[1739] But that doesn't make any sense.

[1740] You need to test how healthy I am.

[1741] Guess what I'm fucking healthy.

[1742] Yeah, I work out all the time, super healthy, eat good.

[1743] I know what I'm doing.

[1744] Like, you don't know what you're doing.

[1745] The problem is you don't know what you're doing.

[1746] You're the insurance guy?

[1747] Right.

[1748] You don't know what you're doing.

[1749] If you knew what you were doing, you would look at each individual and go, this guy's fine.

[1750] This guy's healthy.

[1751] This guy's concentrating on his health.

[1752] This guy who doesn't smoke pot and just eat sugar all day.

[1753] This guy's kind of fucked, though.

[1754] Oh, that guy's real fucked.

[1755] That guy's fucked.

[1756] This guy who's on Adderall because he's got a prescription for ADD and you have a problem with that.

[1757] That guy's fucked.

[1758] There's a lot of people that are fucked out there.

[1759] And these insurance companies that think that a guy who smokes pot is more likely to die, there's no statistics to back that up.

[1760] There's no statistics that say that people who smoke pot are more likely to get diseases or die of some sort of a fucking debilitating syndrome that came about because of overuse of THC it doesn't exist but they don't even testing you for alcohol they don't even tell you ask you how much you drank without testing you like they can't test you it's not in your system anymore it's really strange because in the Navy and the railroad there were very stringent obviously highly stringent drug policies but drinking your ass off every night is completely fine completely fine you know don't smoke a joint at 5 p .m. But kill that six pack and come in here and build this train the next morning you know those were always the guys that made me nervous you know not only that there's like a culture of honor behind it like how much you can handle your drunk how much can you handle your drinking bobby had 17 fucking beers i swear to god bro you would think he had zero he's right there good for bobby bobby's an animal yeah bobby puts him down like there's like a badge of honor that goes to that you bobby's meanwhile he's taking something that's completely hindering his thought process, his stability, his emotions are all out of whack.

[1761] Like, he's fucking drunk as shit.

[1762] Right.

[1763] He doesn't know what he's doing.

[1764] He's wrestling.

[1765] His brain is wrestling with alcohol right now, which is one of the weirdest depressants.

[1766] It's awful.

[1767] One of the weirdest drugs.

[1768] It's, uh, you spend a lot of time on the road, traveling constantly.

[1769] One, you can't really drink, especially at our age.

[1770] It just does things.

[1771] But you look at out of rooms full of people every night that are sometimes really drunk.

[1772] Or, like, if you work with people, I don't.

[1773] I refuse to.

[1774] I don't, I don't, like, really let people drink in my band on the road.

[1775] And that's cost me players because they'd rather drink than be in your band.

[1776] And it just.

[1777] Would you say you don't drink?

[1778] Can they have a glass of wine with dinner?

[1779] Well, there's, there's, like, you know, a beer or two, you know, there's not getting hammered.

[1780] There's people that shouldn't drink.

[1781] Right.

[1782] You know what I mean?

[1783] Yes.

[1784] Like, the guy that has one drink and instantly.

[1785] turns into a different motherfucker all together.

[1786] And then by the time he's on that third one, and everybody's like, how much longer are we got to do this?

[1787] Yeah.

[1788] There's a lot of those guys out there, too.

[1789] A lot of people.

[1790] I didn't know that existed until the first time I met one, one where the switch goes off.

[1791] And they get gerbilized.

[1792] Oh, the Jekyll and Hydron?

[1793] Yeah, they get gerbilized.

[1794] Wow, that's a good way to put me. You know, they're like, they're not there, like, eh, ah, ah.

[1795] Shit, it gets weird.

[1796] And they're like, whoa.

[1797] And they're moving around like they're a normal, a woke person.

[1798] Hashtag woke.

[1799] Yeah, there's a weird contradiction we have in the society.

[1800] We were constantly drinking drugs in the form of caffeine, constantly getting drugs in the form of whatever your doctor prescribes you for depression or anxiety or ADHD or whatever that is, constantly going out and having drinks, taking drugs, the drugs being alcohol, taking a whiskey drug and a vodka drug and no one thinks anything of it.

[1801] And they're like, well, I don't do drugs.

[1802] drugs all day.

[1803] All day.

[1804] It's so few people who don't do any drugs.

[1805] Some drugs are super beneficial.

[1806] Think about that.

[1807] Those weed edibles that made you write this album.

[1808] That's a beneficial.

[1809] Well, it didn't make you write it.

[1810] But you were on it while you wrote it.

[1811] Give it a little credit.

[1812] I think I was listening to some old records early love.

[1813] I was like, yeah, that sounds good.

[1814] You could feel music better when you're high.

[1815] Brittany Spears sounds good.

[1816] You get high enough, man. You kidding me?

[1817] Turn that shit up?

[1818] Yeah, Brittany.

[1819] God bless her.

[1820] I like Miley Cyrus' music while I'm high.

[1821] I'm going to admit it right now.

[1822] That's song Malibu.

[1823] It's a good fucking song, man. It's a good song.

[1824] Don't laugh at me, Jamie.

[1825] It mocks me. As if a young, young, cute girl can't be a real artist.

[1826] Son of a bitch.

[1827] It's like the first thing you played in the studio here in the gym.

[1828] That's right.

[1829] Yeah.

[1830] You got a big stereo right here?

[1831] Oh, yeah.

[1832] Oh, yeah.

[1833] Oh, yeah.

[1834] Of course, in the gym.

[1835] This place is filled with speakers.

[1836] Good for you.

[1837] I went to, uh, I'm a name drop real quick because yesterday was probably one of those days.

[1838] We're like, yeah, this is why I do this.

[1839] I ended up going up to Malibu to Rick Rubin's house and was playing him some of this record I'm working on just to get some feedback.

[1840] And it's one of those moments when you realize you're sitting like Rick Rubin's like all engine style on his couch head banging like a fucking caveman.

[1841] And he had literally the best sounding.

[1842] stereo system I've ever heard in my life.

[1843] I could only imagine.

[1844] I mean, better than any top grade studio monitors I've ever sat in front of it.

[1845] It was just like, yep.

[1846] Yeah, that's really Rick Rubin, too.

[1847] That's the other thing.

[1848] That was the only thing that was in the fucking room was the couch.

[1849] He was literally like the Tiki A guy sitting in the chair in front of that tower.

[1850] It's like just the stereo on the floor in this fucking empty room.

[1851] I don't know what it was or what the speakers even where I'd never seen anything like it.

[1852] it.

[1853] I bet it's like what Rollins has.

[1854] Henry Rollins says these speakers we were talking about the other day they're like a quarter million dollars.

[1855] Is that what they were?

[1856] A quarter million dollar speakers in his living room.

[1857] These towers, these two towers and they're just, I mean, I've never experienced it.

[1858] So I don't know what it's like.

[1859] But I got to assume that you've spent a quarter million dollars for some speakers.

[1860] I thought I'd heard some pretty impressive speakers in my time, but this was like some really holy shit this exists kind of moment.

[1861] Right, right.

[1862] It makes sense.

[1863] And it doesn't even have to be that loud, right?

[1864] It's just that the sound is so powerful, right?

[1865] Yeah.

[1866] The only thing, I don't want a car.

[1867] I want a samurai sword and Rick Ruben's home stereo.

[1868] That's what I'm aspiring to now.

[1869] And a Bronco.

[1870] And a Bronco.

[1871] And a lightsaber.

[1872] Give the man a Bronco on a lightsaber.

[1873] Yeah, I had a Bronx.

[1874] I had a badass Bronco.

[1875] My second one, we moved to Nashville and Bronco.

[1876] My wife was my wife.

[1877] It died.

[1878] I ended up scoring a sweet one, this redneck and like Livingston, Tennessee or somewhere.

[1879] I bought it off from it.

[1880] it was in 92 and he'd like Matt blacked it out and my buddy Bobby took it for like a month while I was on tour in Europe and stripped all the interior out and we rhino hide the entire liner took all the plastic everything it was just like a fucking mad max death trap and we had these bucket co -bear leather racing seats we bolted in and then I had two kids and it was like I'm gonna die driving in this thing and it had a 400 Windsor rebuild with like Kansas headers the whole goddamn thing like my neighbors hated it and I gave it to my drummer when his truck died and he he actually like unlike most kids of the millennial area really put time and money and effort and working to it was like fixing up making it his and then he's getting married so he's getting a tree out of real truck so now that bronco's gone and i feel like it's probably time to find a sweet bronco yeah that's a good era too the oj's bronco year is a more understated bronco yep the locking hubs yeah the move is to get one of those and keep it plain jane the outside but on the inside just put a badass stereo in the what i really want to do is uh um because i don't i'd like to have so yeah it's very unassuming and then on the inside just look like a rocket ship yeah with all the accoutrement that can be done yeah easily yeah um and very modernized user friendly but what you're gonna pay to do that man you could fucking go buy 1970 kuda or something uh you could buy a house right yeah you can buy a house where you live for real yeah buy a fat piece of land actually nashville the real estate has gotten I don't live in Nashville anymore, but I don't know.

[1881] Much like Austin, I mean, five years from now, there may not be any music in Nashville because I don't know how many musicians are going to afford to live there.

[1882] Yeah, that's why I keep hearing.

[1883] It's so fast.

[1884] Like an explosion, an explosion.

[1885] Logistically, the infrastructure, the traffic, it's like a miniature version of L .A. now.

[1886] When did it start?

[1887] Hard to say.

[1888] I mean, the first time I lived there was in 2005, and it was a different city than none of this had happened.

[1889] a lot of the hip bars now like there could have been eight people in there on a Friday night I'm not really sure I moved there 2011 and I think it was like in the last two or three years though all the gentrification started around then they were building these you know what used to be the blown out dilapidated parts of town the high rises started going up and and shopping centers and that sort of thing and there's still very much the old Nashville It's almost like two or three different cities in some cases in terms of personality.

[1890] But the influx and all this change is sort of changed what it is.

[1891] But like Austin used to be a thriving music scene.

[1892] But now it's like all the tech industry moved in and the cost of living.

[1893] And property is just insane.

[1894] Like struggling service industry, job day to day, as we say artists, people trying to make it.

[1895] They're all having to live like an hour outside of town and commute in for the gigs.

[1896] Wow.

[1897] That's crazy.

[1898] And what do you think was the catalyst?

[1899] Like what caused the launch?

[1900] Just became a cool place to be.

[1901] Yeah.

[1902] I mean, well, there was, I'm not sure.

[1903] Well, in terms of, well, it's always been a publishing hub.

[1904] Right.

[1905] I mean, it's a music town, and there's all kinds of music.

[1906] They're not just country music.

[1907] When did that TV show come out?

[1908] There was a big Nashville TV show.

[1909] That would have been about four or five years ago, I think.

[1910] Do you think that fucked it up?

[1911] All those dorks, they go.

[1912] Oh, we're going to live there.

[1913] Well, there's definitely tours from that TV show.

[1914] Drink out of a match, Mason jar.

[1915] It's such a soap opera version that isn't really that far enough away from how that world probably works.

[1916] I never saw it.

[1917] I didn't either.

[1918] My wife watched it one night, and I just was like, no. I've been there a bunch of times playing Zanies.

[1919] Okay, now that little street where you're talking about, that corner on 8th Avenue, there's Zanis, You got Douglas Corner.

[1920] There's a lot of shops that I go to on, like, Sundays.

[1921] They're auctioneers.

[1922] They do these old estate sales and really cool furniture.

[1923] But that little pocket, that intersection is probably one of the few remaining bastions of funk left in Nashville.

[1924] Like that's probably my favorite little corner in Nashville because I can just stand there and it still feels like relatively similar to what it probably felt like 30 years ago.

[1925] You know what I mean?

[1926] Right, right.

[1927] but a lot of other things change around things that don't.

[1928] Does that make sense?

[1929] It does make sense.

[1930] Yeah.

[1931] Those are cool little pockets then, right?

[1932] Yeah.

[1933] I think I got a good friend, Billy Wayne Davis.

[1934] I met him at Zanis one night.

[1935] Back when I was on Twitter, he reached out, like, I'm playing here tonight, free ticket.

[1936] So my wife and I went, we like comedy, and got to know him, and he ended up opening a tour for me. That place is one of those places where you know it's good and old, based on the number of dead people.

[1937] on the wall right so you're walking around you're like oh richard jenny you can walk in and taste cocaine yeah it's you know well i mean the photos of the headshots all the dead comedians there's so many of them you know that place has been around forever aren't you coming to nashville soon yeah like a couple of weeks what day i don't know i just probably know i'm doing the rhyming on um the 30th Yeah, the 30th on the Riemann with the Golden Pony, Tony Hinchcliffe, and then we're in Charlotte the next night.

[1938] That's what I like.

[1939] A little short weekends.

[1940] Bing, bang, four shows, two shows Friday, two shows Saturday.

[1941] Have you done the Riemann before?

[1942] Yeah, a couple times.

[1943] Yeah.

[1944] Yeah, I love it.

[1945] It's fucking awesome.

[1946] I'm gonna be out of town, man. I'm bummed.

[1947] What are you going to do?

[1948] What are you going to do?

[1949] What are you going to do?

[1950] I'm always coming through.

[1951] I come through like once every year.

[1952] Maybe a year and a half at most.

[1953] I love it.

[1954] I might come through again and do Zanis.

[1955] um after this when i write my new hour just to fuck around stretch it out because uh you really want to stretch it out at a comedy club you don't want to stretch it out in front of 3 ,000 people it's just not it's not a good it's not a good uh development ground it's not the room to try things out the big rooms of the room would that's when you're done you got it you got the set you know what you're doing you fuck around while you're up there but you basically have a structure for your act you have a structure for each bit and occasionally y 'all deviate but what i don't want to do I don't want to work out brand new material in front of 3 ,000 people.

[1956] Fuck that.

[1957] One night, well, I think I came to watch your show at the store.

[1958] Yeah.

[1959] And this was like a year ago.

[1960] And you had to jet right after the set and go to Pasadena for another set.

[1961] My buddy that I brought with me, we're going to hang here.

[1962] So who comes out and like Jeff Ross or somebody comes out and he's doing his bit and right in the fucking middle of it, the back curtain opens and Chappelle walks out and just kind of like taps Ross on the corner on the shoulder like, fuck off, I got this, you know, and just jacks the mic.

[1963] pretty much everybody else's set who was supposed to perform that night and stands there for like three hours man we're just sitting there I was like dude this will probably never happen again in your lifetime so I'm not fucking leaving and we just sat through the whole time and he sat there rocking tequila bombs and getting drunk and just really talking there were the times where it was the funniest thing I've ever seen literally and there were times where it kind of got dark and you're like where's what the fuck's happening where's this going and he was working things out and then later on those Netflix specials land and I realize I've already heard like 90 % of these jokes and because the guy was just like, I'm going to go hijack the main room, work my shit out because I got it like that.

[1964] I'm Dave Chappelle, you know, but it was fucking amazing.

[1965] Yeah, he does that a lot where he'll just drop in the place and just do a set.

[1966] And that's how he kind of works his material out, you know.

[1967] He just kind of drops in and keeps tweaking it.

[1968] And it's if he has a structure, right?

[1969] Like if he has a few ideas that he's talking about, he can just riff.

[1970] and especially if he's drinking, just go on stage.

[1971] And then he's always got dudes behind him that are taking down notes, letting him know, like, oh, you talked about this.

[1972] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1973] I'm sure they record it too.

[1974] Then he'll go over it and eventually boil it down to, like, what that Netflix special was, the two Netflix specials.

[1975] That shows you how prolific that dude is.

[1976] To put out a Netflix special and then a year later put out two Netflix specials.

[1977] And then Netflix is like, we'll take it.

[1978] What do you got?

[1979] He's like, hey, I wrote this one this month, and I'd like to put it down for all eternity.

[1980] Are you cool with that?

[1981] But most people, like, you write something, and it's a good, solid year before you even consider putting in a special.

[1982] You know, some guys were doing, like, a special year, but too much of it was, like, half -cooked.

[1983] It was like, if you just waited six more months, this thing would be, like, an all -time great special.

[1984] But instead, you're banging them out one a year.

[1985] You never get the essence of the thing.

[1986] Well, his thing, too, part of his thing, I think, is making it look like it's so easy.

[1987] Effortless.

[1988] Because the night at the comedy store and it just like it did feel like he was just sort of making the shit up on the spot.

[1989] And then you see the Netflix specials and it sort of feels the same way.

[1990] Like he's just being Dave.

[1991] And the little subtle things that I noticed like probably 10 times throughout the night at really awkward moments he would call the waitress to get him another drink, but he would only say bar whore.

[1992] And every time he'd say it, it'd get a little more.

[1993] more awkward, like a little less appropriate each and every fucking time.

[1994] Eventually, everybody in the room was like, that's not really cool.

[1995] And then at the end of the night, he's like, the last thing he says, like, I'm really sorry, I called you Bar -Horaj, don't have any fucking jokes.

[1996] And he walked off the stage.

[1997] I was like, yeah, that's how Dave writes.

[1998] That's one of the ways he writes.

[1999] But he's got it down, you know, he's got it down to a science.

[2000] And the other thing he does is he just travels to towns, just decides to travel to a town and go on stage, show up, show up.

[2001] three nights at the film war with yeah but i mean he doesn't even he'll do that but that's booked he books that you have to book that shit nine months right but if he works somewhere else he just shows up like he'll work at a comedy club and just show up you know it's like i was in denver once and he just showed up i came in the green room after the show it was uh after the late show friday night i went backstage and dave's in the green room i go what are you doing man and uh and he goes hey joe i'm just in town fucking around i go you want to go on stage he's like shit i go fuck yeah i grab them bring the people back in people already getting up and leaving.

[2002] I said, ladies gentlemen, get back.

[2003] Dave Chappelle's here.

[2004] Of course he wants to go on stage.

[2005] Why else is he there?

[2006] That's why he's there.

[2007] That's what he does.

[2008] That's his thing, you know?

[2009] But it's just weird to say like, oh, like this guy's so free.

[2010] He could just fly into a town where he knows his friend's going to be.

[2011] He doesn't even have to call you in advance.

[2012] You know, he just flew in.

[2013] And I see him like, oh, yeah, get up there.

[2014] Like, he's as free as a bird.

[2015] He does, like, whatever he wants.

[2016] And then he does these Netflix specials.

[2017] They pay him an assload of money.

[2018] And then he just does shows whenever he wants to.

[2019] But his creative process is like almost like engineered around being loose.

[2020] Like doing whatever he wants.

[2021] Going where he wants to go.

[2022] Doing whatever he wants.

[2023] And then writing.

[2024] You know, and then figuring out on stage.

[2025] Then riffing it and then just fucking around.

[2026] It's fascinating.

[2027] Fascinating to watch.

[2028] It's like jazz almost.

[2029] Oh, it's very much like.

[2030] Yeah, I mean, he's also got being Dave Chappelle down to a science.

[2031] Like you were saying that you were in the Sturgle Simpson business.

[2032] He's in the Dave Chappelle business.

[2033] Yeah.

[2034] Yeah.

[2035] He does what Dave Chappelle wants to do.

[2036] That's the key, I think.

[2037] I think that's the key.

[2038] If we could all be in the business of whoever the fuck you are, whatever you do.

[2039] Well, I like to write songs and make records and pretty much say no to everything else.

[2040] I think that's a good life.

[2041] Dave seems to be on a much grander scale.

[2042] You ain't like yourself.

[2043] I mean, is there any point of the day where you ever do anything you don't?

[2044] want to do no not anymore no I mean I do things that I know I have to do that I'm not looking forward to but that's mostly like exercise shit right you know like sometimes I'm just not looking forward to it and I have to force myself to do it or writing I love writing but sometimes I have to force myself to sit down in front of the computer but other than that like I know on a computer yeah really yeah I can't write I write by hand too but when I write by It's really just rehashing things.

[2045] Right.

[2046] When I write on a computer, there's no way I can write with my hands as quickly as I can type.

[2047] I can type pretty quick.

[2048] So if I have an idea, and I don't want to hear my voice, so I don't want to say it into a microphone.

[2049] Yeah.

[2050] I want to just figure out what the beats are of things.

[2051] Interesting.

[2052] Yeah, well, I was going to say, I always write by hand because usually the meter or the phrasing, there's a way it makes me think about it.

[2053] It goes down right the first time.

[2054] or suppose I'm just like writing poetry on a computer screen or whatever you know you don't necessarily have a sense of the beat whereas like I want things to flow a certain way and land on on hits and that and I usually just like throw all the consonants away hmm you know Bill Clinton wrote his entire memoir on like legal paper doesn't surprise me he wrote it on like a regular notebook makes you think about what you're writing yeah I think he wrote it on like a regular notebook like maybe one of those uh black and white ones that used to get when you're with the with the splatter covers yeah those slatter covers are cool stacks of those things the best i still write jokes in those when i write i uh when i write on a piece of paper i'm really just reminding myself most of the time occasionally i have an idea that i have to like circle and i put an x next to it it's all but if you read my notebook you think i was a crazy person there's something to that too in terms of memory I've learned a long time ago If there's a song I want to learn And you've got to remember all the words I'm never going to remember them Until I just sit down and write that song Down on paper like one time Once I write it on paper and see it It's like it's there Yep You know Yep And like whether it's mine or somebody I only forget the words to the shit I write Weirdly that's kind of like in shows It never fails if I Like get lost or forget something It's always a song I wrote never really like 8 ,000 old country Bluegrass songs like I'll just pull out of my ass on a dime and remember all that shit but it's always the ones I wrote I wonder what I don't know man that's interesting that makes sense though like right because the other ones that you remember they just had an impact on you like they mean something to you or it's the one you wrote like it comes out of nowhere it goes through you to your pad right it's like it's almost hard to recapture that state and then you're like a normal person trying to remember what you thought of when you were in that zone was a song that somebody else made you're like oh i love the song i know i yeah i don't know if it's like because you're reacting to it stronger or more strongly i mean uh well this i think there's a thing of creativity that involves the no self right there's that state that you get when you there's a lot of shit that i write where i go back over it like i'm like how do i write that bit out and then i go back and read and i don't remember any of this right half of it i don't even remember i took it in a whole different place that's the hardest part that was getting to that lack of self yeah i mean even uh i think that's with any art when you're not thinking about it or self -aware or have any preconceived notions about where it wants to go yeah you know do you smoke weed and right i don't ever like do one way or another specifically just whatever yeah i have written while i'm high i've written when i'm not you know right what about performing generally i don't enjoy it depends i can't i don't i don't i don't really like to smoke weed anymore it's something about the way it hits me, when I inhale it and high, it becomes more heady and internalize and, like, any anxiety.

[2055] The paranoia people talk about it.

[2056] The only time I've ever experienced that is when I've smoked weed.

[2057] But my problem is I don't like going on stage stone anymore because you're so ultra -sensitive.

[2058] My ear becomes, like, I already struggle with it enough.

[2059] I'm hearing everything happening and dissecting it all, like hypercritical in real time.

[2060] And you can't do that and perform and let go.

[2061] So you kind of have to, like, it's two different.

[2062] brains.

[2063] But if I'm up there singing and looking at an audience, if I'm stone, I know enough about myself to know, like, I'll get internalized and just only start listening to the band and the music, and you sort of forget that, like, there's all these people there.

[2064] You have to give a show to.

[2065] And I guess maybe that is the show.

[2066] When we get lost in the music, and then I've also played some of the best gigs I've ever played my life on edibles.

[2067] Because, you know, it's sort of like an anti -anxiety.

[2068] And just, like, very free and you feel everything much more delicately in terms of response.

[2069] But it's not something I were like, oh, we've got to get high.

[2070] It's good time to play a gig.

[2071] You do or you don't.

[2072] I don't.

[2073] No, no, no, that's what I mean is you do or you don't.

[2074] What I mean is you do or you don't.

[2075] You do or you don't.

[2076] Yeah, there's no, if you are, it's just this is tonight.

[2077] Right, right.

[2078] You know, tomorrow's tomorrow.

[2079] It's not like you have a ritual.

[2080] Right.

[2081] Yeah.

[2082] I like a drink right before I go on stage, a shot.

[2083] See, that messes with.

[2084] Alcohol messes with my voice.

[2085] I get that.

[2086] You got to stay away from it.

[2087] I just like just a little, just that little feeling that you get with one shot.

[2088] Like, oh, here we go.

[2089] I like that.

[2090] Well, no, I did.

[2091] What about food?

[2092] Man, it depends.

[2093] I don't like eating close to a show, especially certain.

[2094] It's just not good.

[2095] Yeah, not good.

[2096] I try to, I'll eat a big lunch and then just fast and I'll eat after the gig most time because I jump around a lot and get into shit.

[2097] Yeah, me too.

[2098] And then one time we did this, like, radio thing.

[2099] thing or some shit.

[2100] I couldn't fucking sing anyway.

[2101] My voice was gone.

[2102] It was this freebie throwaway thing for Sirius.

[2103] And we'd been in there setting up and rehearsing in the studio all day.

[2104] And then they realized, like, oh, we haven't eaten.

[2105] I'm fucking starving.

[2106] I got to play gigs.

[2107] So they had some fah delivered, and I ate it like 10 minutes before we're supposed to play.

[2108] Dude, you said it correctly.

[2109] Most people don't even know what fah is.

[2110] And it just gut bombed me, dude.

[2111] Like your worst nightmare.

[2112] You're out there, like, trying to really push and sing on a microphone and not shit your pants.

[2113] So I've learned my lesson.

[2114] I hit the wall the other day in my house.

[2115] I don't know what the hell I ate, but I literally had to put my hand on a railing so I could squeeze my butt cheeks together harder so I couldn't shit myself.

[2116] Jesus.

[2117] It broke through some weird barrier where I thought, I knew I had to take a shit, but I was thinking maybe I could let a fart out first when I'm on my way to the bathroom.

[2118] I don't know what I was thinking.

[2119] Oh, that's the gambler.

[2120] But I took a step.

[2121] I took a step, and all of a sudden it's like if I had a water bag.

[2122] inside my body and it just broke.

[2123] And then I'm holding it all together with my asshole and squeezing my ass cheeks and the fucking abdominal pain is like whoa!

[2124] I feel like, you remember when you were a kid used to put your thumb over the garden hose?

[2125] Just try to really clamp that fucking thing down and like you got to a place where you stopped all the water from coming out of the garden hose, but barely.

[2126] I mean, fucking barely.

[2127] That was my asshole the other day.

[2128] And I'm holding onto the railing, just squeezing, and I did these little baby steps like this towards a toilet where I was not, I wasn't even picking up my legs.

[2129] I was just sliding my legs over, barely, barely got my pants off.

[2130] And it was like a broken fire hydrant, came out of my asshole, just, boosh.

[2131] I was like, where was this?

[2132] Where did this come from?

[2133] Like, five minutes ago, there was nothing wrong with me. I felt 100 % normal.

[2134] I wouldn't have imagined that this could happen.

[2135] Right.

[2136] And then all of a sudden it's flound.

[2137] high anatomy.

[2138] That's terrifying to think.

[2139] It could happen any time.

[2140] You could be on a plane.

[2141] Stuck in your seat and you just shit all over your socks and your pants and just runs up your back and down your legs.

[2142] It can happen to anybody.

[2143] Have you ever had full -blown, like, absolutely horrible food poisoning coming out both ends and you literally think I might die?

[2144] Yeah.

[2145] Yeah, I had a real bad once.

[2146] Well, I've had it real bad twice.

[2147] But that barracuda that I used to have, this cool 1970 barracuda was named the Sick Fish.

[2148] The The reason why I named it the sick fish is I got food poisoning.

[2149] I ain't linguine with clams in Illinois.

[2150] There's no fucking clams anywhere near Illinois.

[2151] And those things got me hard, man. I couldn't even make a fist the next day.

[2152] I was walking around like a zombie.

[2153] I was dead.

[2154] I spent the whole night throwing up and shitting myself.

[2155] And then the next day, I was just dead.

[2156] I drank like five or six cups of coffee because we had to film this thing where they were putting the engine in the car and they were going over the design.

[2157] I was like barely able to stay awake while I was doing that.

[2158] I was so wrecked.

[2159] It's all, I had it one time from this Chinese buffet.

[2160] And it was a, you know, it hit me hours later, seven hours later that night.

[2161] And all of a sudden it was just, I was in this bathroom for, you know, four or five hours.

[2162] And it was those things like, it was the worst shape I've ever been in.

[2163] But in the back of your mind, you know, you're like, it's okay.

[2164] You know, I know this is food poisoning, but like, it's going to, it's okay.

[2165] It's going to hit, it's going to go to a point.

[2166] And then it just threw out the night, it just kept getting worse.

[2167] And I kept asking, where is this point going to be?

[2168] Or do I need to go to the hospital?

[2169] Because that was very uncomfortable, you know, like abdominal tremors and shit from puking so hard.

[2170] And your muscles are just spasoming.

[2171] No, you can die from it.

[2172] I mean, people have died from E. coli poisoning.

[2173] There was a scene in food ink where they talked about this little kid that got food poisoning from a, I think it was a jack -in -the -box.

[2174] And he wound up dying.

[2175] It was, right?

[2176] yeah it's horrible it's a terrible way to die i mean you're ingesting some sort of a poison it just takes over your system just kills yourselves your body can't process it quickly enough can't get it out enough you're shitting yourself and throwing up and doing everything you can to get whatever the fuck is inside you out right yeah on food food on the road you play it pretty safe yeah i'll skip meals a lot of times i'll not eat if the only alternative is something like really shitty.

[2177] Just because, not because, like, oh, I'm a health nut, but it's just not worth it.

[2178] You don't know?

[2179] I bring a lot of protein bars.

[2180] Okay.

[2181] I bring a ton of protein bars.

[2182] So if I'm stuck and I just need to eat something, I'll just down, like a, we have a bunch of on it protein bars.

[2183] I like those Quest bars.

[2184] You know what I mean sugar in them?

[2185] I like Muscle Farm.

[2186] I have some good bars.

[2187] Just, I don't live off of them, but it's way better than that.

[2188] I'm not getting a burger.

[2189] Do you eat sugar?

[2190] Very little.

[2191] Very little.

[2192] Very little.

[2193] I'll give him, like, last night, I had a piece of apple.

[2194] rubarb now strawberry rhubarb pie though with whipped cream oh i went deep but that's rare i did a thing a while back i kind of got pressured but i tried to see just how long as i could without any sugar and how did you go i was like 12 days that's not crazy that's as good as you can get well it's hard because everything has fucking sugar in it and you just but and then after even just abstaining that short amount of time when i did eat it again at first it was like everything takes tasted so sweet you could really understand how much we're getting drugged with food um but my thing is coffee i drink coffee in the morning i'm not a breakfast guy but i just can't drink it straight because it tastes like a bucket full of asshole i got to cut it with something if i could cut out coffee in my life i could probably cut out sugar oh did you see you cut it with some sort of sugar cream and sugar you see i just use cream man or i drink these did you like this cave bands i get a bunch that wasn't bad yeah i have a bunch sent to you how do you get the mud butt down i mean it's just like i don't get mud but bud from this.

[2195] I don't know what I ate that made me get mud butt, but whatever it was, it turned out to not be anything, like I had that one terrible shit, and then the rest of the day was golden.

[2196] It was no problems.

[2197] It's like something got in there.

[2198] Some little micro bacteria.

[2199] I eat a lot of probiotics.

[2200] I don't know if that helps, but I'm hoping that that's, that helps and that when I eat something funky, all the good stuff that I eat, like I eat kimchi almost every day.

[2201] I drink kombucha every day.

[2202] I love steak, but I hate ass cancer, so I don't eat steak very often.

[2203] I don't think steak really gives you ass cancer.

[2204] I like it raw or like really, you know.

[2205] Rare.

[2206] I like it raw.

[2207] So I just know that the rare occasion when I have a steak, I'm going to get the chas.

[2208] You know, because it's just worth it.

[2209] But it makes me eat red meat very little now.

[2210] When was the last time you had Wild Game?

[2211] Oh, man. Like real wild game?

[2212] Real wild game.

[2213] Probably when I was out in Utah, I worked with this kid who was a big hunter.

[2214] he would bring in elk like fillet medallions or like hamburger and he would he lived in Wyoming so he could pull like two or three extra tags here much like the 18 deep freezers full of every possible cut of meat you can think of made from elk meat and he would bring it in sometimes when we were working and cooked that shit and the first time I ever tasted it I was like I don't ever want to eat beef again that was the most delicious meat I've ever tasted my life yeah I basically eat it almost every day elk yeah almost every day because when you shoot an elk I try to shoot an elk a year you don't always get one obviously this year I got lucky I got two I scheduled two elk hunts and I figured I was going to strike out if not both of them definitely one of them and I just I got real lucky on both yeah wow again it is there's definitely having really good guides good guides you know because I always hire someone go with me yourself and your family a year one year off one elk yeah and I They hand a lot of it to my friends.

[2215] I give Gary Clark some elk.

[2216] Honey, honey, they took some elk.

[2217] I wish you around, man. I'll give you some elk, too, if you lived around here.

[2218] Well, we're living now.

[2219] I'm probably going to, if I sit on my back porch long enough, it'll probably be pretty easy.

[2220] Well, Kentucky actually has a new elk population over the last, like, 40 or 50 years, I think they've reestablished it to the point where it's a hunting destination now.

[2221] They opened it up.

[2222] I think you know we're talking about this.

[2223] I think we were.

[2224] It used to be flooded with it.

[2225] You know, 1800, they hunted them out and they repopulated.

[2226] I want to say in the 90s, maybe early 2000s.

[2227] And now there's so many that they're opening it up again.

[2228] Yeah, shout out to the Rocky Mountain Elk Federation.

[2229] That's what they do.

[2230] They establish habitat for these animals.

[2231] We're down in the sort of in the southeast corner around the Smokies, man. It's really weird, a lot of wild turkey and deer.

[2232] It's supposed to be amazing there.

[2233] I saw Armadillo in the woods at my house.

[2234] I was like, no, fucking way.

[2235] like that can't and ensure a shit like they've migrated that far over and up wow so they're really varmody they don't really do much good do you have any elk near you there's got to be when we're in you ever hear it i don't hear them how long you've been this new spot uh well we really haven't even been in i stayed there off and on a couple times when dealing with contractors they just they just really got finished and out of there which is perfect i got to go back to work but well you won't really know until september right september you're starting here on boy There's so many turkey and deer It's kind of going to be an issue I can't walk out and suddenly kick the fucking turkey out of the way Turkey's a crazy man They get aggressive with you too Yeah I don't mind The only thing I tell you what man We got all the snakes and spiders and all that She grew up around Playing with like baby copperheads in the creek My mom spanking the shit I mean when she caught me like Because I don't worry about this stuff But I'll tell you what's fucked up My wife found she was sweet We get lady bugs That come like in this time of year They try to come in on this like some porch and she's sweeping a pile up and found a scorpion in the middle of the pile and it's like you what the fuck there's scorpion in Tennessee now that's crazy about that shit so that's pretty crazy yeah I couldn't believe it man I mean I hate spiders but that's like a whole other level they're supposed to be in the desert aren't they that's what I thought but there are two species of scorpion native Tennessee it's basically like equivalent to get stung by honeybee but they just look so evil man I don't want to walk in the bathroom and have to be like checking under my toilet bowl for fucking scorpions.

[2236] You always assume that they kill you.

[2237] When you see a scorpion, I assume it kills you.

[2238] Well, you know why?

[2239] Because you remember the original clash of the Titans?

[2240] Oh, that's right, that thing.

[2241] When you're a movie and the blood dripped out of Medusa's headbag and then turned into giant scorpions, I was a kid.

[2242] I saw that, so it's like...

[2243] They were giant.

[2244] They were giant.

[2245] Like stinging that guy.

[2246] That movie was fucked up, actually.

[2247] It was pretty fucked up, but it was good.

[2248] It's terrible when you watch it now.

[2249] That's like a Harry Housen movie, right?

[2250] Where it was like stop animation.

[2251] The guy from some soap opera or whatever his name was, I don't know.

[2252] That's right.

[2253] Medusa and the Cracken.

[2254] Harry Hamlin?

[2255] Harry Hamlin.

[2256] Harry fucking Hamlin.

[2257] How do I know that?

[2258] And the guy that played Hades, you know, like the red, the devil dude that gods turning into.

[2259] Dude, I forgot all about that movie.

[2260] If you didn't bring it up.

[2261] I was like the TBS that when I was a kid, they would play that and Beastmaster back to back like every fucking two hours.

[2262] Beastmaster.

[2263] But yeah, that original Clash of the Titans, man, Medusa did a number.

[2264] on me. What do you got?

[2265] I think that was...

[2266] The video of it?

[2267] Look how bad it looks.

[2268] I think that might have been the first time I actually saw boobies was Medusa.

[2269] Look at this.

[2270] The blood hits the ground.

[2271] That's it.

[2272] Oh my God.

[2273] The scorpions pop up.

[2274] The robotic owl.

[2275] Look how bad the fucking special effects were.

[2276] But we were like, dude, I'm in.

[2277] That's how they did it.

[2278] Yeah.

[2279] You had to believe.

[2280] Wow.

[2281] Look at that, dude.

[2282] Sturgill, you better get the fuck out of here.

[2283] You're not going to catch your flight.

[2284] Okay.

[2285] It's 220.

[2286] right now.

[2287] Yeah, I should do that.

[2288] We've got to get you moving.

[2289] Next time you're in town, I've got a grill back here.

[2290] I got a grill and I got some meat.

[2291] I'm going to cook for you.

[2292] Thank you.

[2293] We'll have a meal.

[2294] Awesome.

[2295] We'll sit down like men.

[2296] We'll drink ale.

[2297] Next time you come to Nashville, I won't be there and I won't be able to repay the favor.

[2298] Yeah, well, I'll be back again.

[2299] I'll be back at Zanis.

[2300] Okay.

[2301] See you soon.

[2302] Bye, everybody.