#1499 - Aron Snyder

[0] What's up, brother?

[1] Good to see you, man. We finally did this.

[2] Yeah, yeah, good to see you.

[3] I had been pestered about four main times when you're getting on Rogan's podcast.

[4] I'm like, why don't you ask Rogan?

[5] I don't know.

[6] So when you finally asked, I'm like, woohoo, I was excited.

[7] I feel like I've made it.

[8] Well, so many people have asked me when I've worn your shirt.

[9] This people are, what is this shirt?

[10] This rhino shirt.

[11] What is that?

[12] That's Kefaro.

[13] That's your backpack company.

[14] And because I've worn this on the podcast, people are like, well, when are you going to get Snyder on?

[15] When he gets nine or off.

[16] Oh, yeah.

[17] Yeah, I'm sure that probably gets old.

[18] I have to respect the amount of people that, how many times do you change your phone number in the last 10 years?

[19] Multiple.

[20] Yeah, I bet.

[21] Keep it moving.

[22] Yeah.

[23] Gotta keep it moving.

[24] I might have to copy you, and I've got one tenth of the following you do.

[25] I just, it's hard to keep up.

[26] And people, I'm surprised how sensitive they get when you don't respond to them.

[27] And it's like, they get angry.

[28] Yeah, and I'm like, I've had guys like, I know you're not that busy.

[29] I'm like, really?

[30] You don't know?

[31] You don't know?

[32] people get real weird with that kind of stuff when they want something you know it's like there's some people that'll text you and then if you don't text them right back they'll send you question marks like question question yeah come on man yeah it gets uh it's weird trying to little than i know where i would end up in life compared you know kind of where i started from and then now well it's it's funny um my my wife she knew me and we met in oh seven didn't have a phone no computer lived in the woods slept on a thermerest air mattress you didn't have a phone or a computer in 07 it was bad i you know what i think i might have got a flip flown right around that time frame um and i was sleeping on a and this is a no bullshit story she'll tell you i had gotten divorced and i kind of made this you know do whatever i got i wanted to hunt a lot get out in the woods a lot so i slept on a thermarest air mattress in my you know you bring chicks over there like what the fuck is this you know i just had this you know 24 inch wide backpacking air mattress i slept on that and uh just save you know money for whatever hunting getting in outdoors and then she and I you know screw around dated for a while and we were apart for several years and we got back together she's like who the fuck are you like we're in walmart they're like Snyder and she's like is that a friend of yours i'm like i have no idea who that is because she skipped all that time and then i'm marketing and i wired in all the time she's like are you a different person a different body because i was not different acting she just you know she she she knew me as the low tech dude that just was anti you know so because of your podcast like and that's probably what and then gritty bowman before that yeah yeah all of that stuff forums and you know whatever all that different stuff uh just got well known and then um yeah went from there well that world that world of uh outdoor enthusiasts and backpack hunters is such a rabid world the guys who are really into that for people don't understand it's like if you combined ultra marathon running rucking and hunting together yeah it's kind of all those things because it's you know we've talked about it on the podcast before and I know I've brought you up before but this it's um that world is it's the combination of athlete I don't like when people call bow hunting a sport because I think it's more of a discipline it's a weird thing to call a sport because it's not like there's a game going on it's it's you're hunting an animal yeah but it's a discipline But it also requires athleticism and requires the kind of workout that, you know, I mean, if you're going to be able to make it 15 miles into the backcountry with a 40 -pound pack on, you have to be an insane shape.

[33] And you've got to be able to get out with an animal on your back in multiple trips.

[34] It could take you several days.

[35] Like just the taxing effect that it has on a human body.

[36] So the guys that are into that shit, when they run into a guy like you that's legit, they get very rabid.

[37] It's crazy.

[38] It's crazy.

[39] And I mean, there's that, well, I would say Cam kicked it off, right?

[40] He was the, the, not the, you know, people get sensitive about that.

[41] Cam was not the original, but Cam was the original that everybody knew.

[42] And he made a book, too.

[43] He's got a great book.

[44] Well, and he was the guy that, you know, going back, like, he was the first one to promote backpack hunting with a platform.

[45] Like, I'm not the first stick bow guy.

[46] Right.

[47] I'm just the first stick bow guy with a platform.

[48] You know what I mean?

[49] Like, I'm the first dude that shoots a recurve that, you know, has somewhat known.

[50] For people that don't fall hunting, let me explain you.

[51] Aaron got too good at shooting with a compound bow, which is probably one of the hardest ways to hunt.

[52] So he decided to shoot with a fucking, like a medieval bow.

[53] Let's talk about how that got started.

[54] So I was, I was you in the fact, I made fun of stickbow guys.

[55] Like, I was bad.

[56] Like, I was truly mean to them.

[57] Like, somebody'd come down, you know, so for people don't understand when you go to an outdoor range, you've got one long line and you've got targets on the far right, which is like the five -pound weights at the gym.

[58] And on the far left, you've got the 200 -pound dumbbells.

[59] That's a 100 -yard bail.

[60] So I'm over at the 100 -yard bail shooting a Ryanhard 18 and 1, 100, 120, and I would have Stickbow guys.

[61] come down to me and tell me I'm unethical for shooting that distance and I would be like you can't hit the bail down there at 10 yards you're at the chump side what are you giving you know me shit for any it got to tell you're unethical for shooting at a target yeah you're practicing at that range like what were they it was weird it was weird and it why is that people want to do that they want to tell you what you're doing is wrong uh I had a human nature I guess and yeah I ended up doing a podcast talked about you know God forbid you break down mathematically, right?

[62] You can break down the speed of an arrow and the accuracy.

[63] And you take a guy, you know, shooting whatever, 290 feet per second.

[64] How long does it take his arrow to get to 80 yards?

[65] How long does it take an arrow to get from, you know, 170 feet per second to 35 yards?

[66] So I kind of evened all that up and said, well, here's apples to apples, oranges, this is it.

[67] Fuck, I got hate mail.

[68] I mean, you're a horrible hunter.

[69] You're using your ability instead of hunting skills, you know, to shoot.

[70] So I was like, fuck it.

[71] I sold everything I had, every compound, every side, every arrow.

[72] I didn't want that temptation.

[73] And I'm like, I'm going to shoot it up.

[74] We'll see, right?

[75] We'll see how good I can get because I never shot a stick bow.

[76] So you, just because of people's reaction to you, you decided to go to a recurve bow?

[77] Yeah, 100%.

[78] Which is, for people don't understand the difference.

[79] So this can be absorbed by people who don't hunt.

[80] The difference that when you have a compound bow, you have a site on a compound bow that will allow you to scroll out.

[81] You could roll out to like, so my site is set at 30 yards.

[82] That's where it's normally set at.

[83] But you can go all the way to 120 yards.

[84] And when it does is it raises your pin.

[85] So it changes where the pin goes up and down.

[86] And the pin is how you aim.

[87] So you can get really accurate.

[88] See, if you're a guy like Cam Haynes, I mean, he shoots at 100 yards all the time.

[89] And, you know, he can get into a small group at 100 yards.

[90] John Dudley, the same thing.

[91] It's very accurate.

[92] whereas with a recurve bow there's no sight you're doing it with the point of your arrow and you're you have to practice much more and it's like throwing a rock like you get a if you throw rocks all time you kind of get a feel of where you can throw that rock yeah throwing that rock was a lot harder than i thought it was going to be let me tell um so i'm very uh goal -oriented and i i at a problem which as much i don't i'm not very good at losing and i'm not saying i'm a spoiled loser I'm psychotic when I lose it something Like my wife will tell you I'll go to a tournament The first thing I do when I get home I'm having her film Me breaking down things So I thought well We're gonna see if I can If these people are right I'm gonna find out I'm gonna do nothing but trad And so Trad meaning traditional Traditional archery Yeah And so I'm lucky enough Tom Clum right He's like the Yoda of The traditional archery So I go down there With a lot of cash And I'm like And they've got several hundred recurbs.

[93] I'm like, hey, I'm going to shoot a stick bow guys.

[94] And they're like, they've seen me shoot a comp and they're like, cool, let's get you set up.

[95] And I'm thinking, I got to get hand -eye coordination.

[96] This shouldn't be a problem.

[97] Fuck, man. I'm like, I went from shooting 58 Xs on a five spot on average to I can't hit the target at 20 yards.

[98] And I'm like, oh, this fucking was what?

[99] I've only shot a recorfer bow a couple of times, but I did it recently in Hawaii like last summer and they had like some range out there and they had recurved bows that you could shoot it's amazing how difficult it is to hit something if you don't have any experience doing it yeah well and i i was lucky because i had that whole family there to help me right so they're you know it's like you have in dudley and can you know i right they took me under their wing and they're explaining this and so i got what i thought was good pretty fast which 40 yards were stick both far um but i hadn't hunted yet you know and so then i i go out and i don't if you remember i shot that black bear and uh you know i'm within 40 yards of it for 20 minutes and in my mind i'm you're gonna you would be so dead if i had my compound i just couldn't get a shot and i finally squeaked it in missed it at like 18 yards and i'm like Jesus Christ Snyder took so luckily and tom had told me this he said you're going to get two or three shots in an animal they don't they don't hear the bow and they don't landed by its feet it kind of looked around and I'm like oh I'm not gonna miss you again she got it on the second shot and uh I'm like ah this isn't yeah I can get this figured out did you have any qualms about hunting with it like how long did it take before you felt ethical enough to hunt with it well I hunted with it three months did you feel did you feel like that was a smart move or do you feel like you rushed it well let me I was psychotic shooting 10 hours a day like I was shooting constantly so if in I think I was fine because I had the coaching I had the help and I had the accuracy I could hit I mean I was doing well to what I had to compare to around me I was like okay this is good so I didn't feel like I went into it unethical like I couldn't hit what I was aiming at but I didn't have experience and I mean you look at knowledge and wisdom right knowledge you're reading about it wisdom you're experiencing it well I thought what I knew from shooting a compound my hunting skills would be enough.

[100] And they were.

[101] I ended up shooting, I don't know, 11, 12 animals that year.

[102] But fuck, man. It was like every time I went out, I was learning something new and I had to totally change my hunting style.

[103] When you think about it from a perspective of someone who's a non -hunter, they question why you would want to shoot a bow and arrow in the first place.

[104] Because they think that that would be less ethical than using a rifle.

[105] Like if you wanted to shoot something, you should use a rifle, you could kill it quicker, it's better.

[106] To go from that to a compound bow, It's like, why are you doing that?

[107] You know, and then they realize, like, oh, you can actually be very accurate with a compound bow if you have practice.

[108] And if you learn how to do it correctly and you're disciplined.

[109] But to take it another level and to go to a recurve, like, that's where it gets to, in some people's minds.

[110] Like, are you hunting for food?

[111] Are you hunting for your ego?

[112] Like, what are you doing?

[113] Like, why are you doing it with a recurve bow?

[114] And I think one of the best answers that I've ever heard from anybody is that they said, it is much more difficult, but also much more rewarding.

[115] And when you're eating that animal, you have this insane sense of accomplishment that's actually another level past even with a compound boat.

[116] Does that make sense?

[117] Yeah, and you've explained it better there than I could.

[118] And I'm going to give it a whirl.

[119] So I went from your side of the things, making fun of everyone, to being addicted to getting close.

[120] So now my, the first year I shot a mule deer at four feet in the cliffs.

[121] When I drew my bow back, my arrow was between its horns.

[122] When I drew up, Frank took photos of it.

[123] Oh, that's so crazy.

[124] But it was one of those things where now the reward from it, like, yeah, that feeling you have when you get it done is a ton.

[125] Because it's much more difficult.

[126] Much more, yeah, much more difficult.

[127] It makes you think about what it must have been like to be the Native Americans.

[128] He what it was like is fucking hungry is what I was like, I bet.

[129] I mean, I have technology on my side, right?

[130] Rangefinders.

[131] Yeah, binoculars, clothing, right?

[132] You got everything.

[133] And so that year, though, when we were going in on a lot of the, these animals, I was able to get a couple turkeys and a black bear and I shot a mule deer.

[134] And that mule deer, like I said, when I was in those cliffs, my arrow was between its antlers when I drew back.

[135] So I shot it at three feet.

[136] And Frank, it was crazy.

[137] It was crazy.

[138] And that would have never happen.

[139] How did you sneak up on it like that?

[140] Luck and wind?

[141] Yeah.

[142] So Frank, he was glassing it and I circled.

[143] It was probably two and a half miles around me. So you were above it on the cliff?

[144] No, we were, uh, when I shot it, I was so you know we were across from it however far we were I mean over a mile and I looped way around and I told you know Frank I said hey when you see me just give me the you know the touchdown and I'm above it man I lost I stocked the wrong rock twice I lost my boots you know I'm like because you took your shoes off to sneak in yeah but except I sneaking in on a fucking rock right I wasn't at the right rock and I because to go that far and hit the exact same spot is is difficult because I lost sight of Frank almost a whole way because I couldn't expose myself.

[145] So when I looped around, when I would see Frank, he was so far away, and I was so close to the rock that I thought the deer was under, I didn't want to make any crazy movements, and then I would go back to 100 yards, try and find my boots, get my boots back on, loop back around to try to find the spot.

[146] So when I finally got to the right spot, Frank stood up a mile away, held his hands up, and I'm like, it's got to be right in front of me, and I caught the top three inches of its, you know, it's velvet antler sticking up.

[147] And it was windy.

[148] So every gust of wind, which about every 10, 15 seconds, I took a step.

[149] I got to nine yards, and I grabbed a rock and through it.

[150] And the mule deer, everything, they tell you everything you need to know in the top four inches of their antlers.

[151] So I'm watching those to see if he moves.

[152] Didn't move at all.

[153] Nothing.

[154] Through another rock, nothing through another rock.

[155] And I'm like...

[156] So explain to me, but you throw on a rock to try to get this thing to stand up so you get a shot.

[157] To get a shot, yeah.

[158] So you throw in a rock just to make noise.

[159] Yeah.

[160] In hopes that he...

[161] He just starts, I get a reaction.

[162] Yep.

[163] And anyway, he didn't move.

[164] And I'm like, I'm going to climb on that rock he's bedded under.

[165] And I mean, you can talk about you couldn't have put a grease flaxseed through my ass with a hammer.

[166] I had just started doing this.

[167] And this deer is feet from me. And I got my foot on the rock he was on.

[168] And I'm like, I hope this, you know, planting off on my right foot to spring up onto this rock.

[169] I waited for a gust to win.

[170] So I'm 25 seconds from me to you from this deer.

[171] he's got no idea I'm there.

[172] That gust of wind hit it, I pushed off.

[173] And I was worried the shade, they'll think it's a mountain lion, pouncing on him.

[174] So I could see the shade of my fat head on the back of his neck.

[175] And I'm like, oh, you know, it's one of the most intense moments of my life, you know, as far as this goes.

[176] And so when I went to draw, I had to sweep my arrow right between his horns and drew back and shot him, you know, straight down.

[177] And he ran 50 yards and piled up.

[178] When you eat that animal, That's got to give you this insane feeling of accomplishment.

[179] It is extremely, extremely rewarding.

[180] To a point, it's hard to explain in words because you've bested the animal in a lot of ways with sure skill.

[181] And I'm not saying that like I'm Billy badass.

[182] I'm just saying like you have snuck into its living room.

[183] There's a lot of variables.

[184] And you've earned it.

[185] Yeah.

[186] Yeah, because it's...

[187] You did it the right way.

[188] Because as you know, I've shot a lot of stuff pretty far away with a compound, which I'm not embarrassed though.

[189] But, you know, it's just now rather than hanging that badge of honor how well I can shoot, it's also, you know, how well I can hunt.

[190] And it's been an uphill road to hoe.

[191] I mean, there's been.

[192] How often do you think about, like, I mean, I find myself thinking about that all the time.

[193] Like, I'm real lucky that I can buy food in a store because this, this is not, even with a regular compound bow with great binoculars and, you know, using a rangefinder and all that jazz, it's not.

[194] guarantee that you're going to eat no do you think about that when you're hunting like what this is this it must have been insane to be one of the you know the american indians on the plains well and i well you you had jordan on as well um you know whatever the alone guy right like that dude had a advantage i wouldn't want to go against him i mean that dude is born to live on nothing right so i always put things into perspective and he brought it up too was when things are down right when you're mentally or whatever drained and you think about it's like all right i chose to put myself out here you know all the people before me they had to hack it out with they didn't have you know any great you didn't have sitka gear they didn't have binoes they didn't have this they didn't have that and so it helps motivate me for one but i'm like it is weird as it sounds i think of that a lot when i'm getting my ass kicked basically it was like if i had to live off this thing i would have to put in that extra effort they had to make their own bows I'm not to that level I mean that life I mean I got it on this real long kick of Native American books there's a guy named SC Gwen and he wrote this book called Empire the Summer Moon and it's all about the Comanchees and you know a lot of it talks about their lifestyle and talks about the hardships that they had to go through and you know mostly bow and arrow hunting for deer and buffalo and it's just That that life must have been insane.

[195] But it also talks about one of the main characters of this woman, Cynthia Ann Parker, who was abducted when she was nine years old.

[196] And then they recapture, the Americans recaptured her when she was in her 30s, and she wanted to go back.

[197] Back, yeah.

[198] She didn't want to live in a town and live in a house, and she fucking hated it.

[199] It's like that life of, even though it's so difficult, that subsistence hunting life, it's so insanely connected.

[200] You're so insanely connected to the forest and to the woods, to the animals, just to the earth itself.

[201] You are, and I think on me, it just, I spent 150, 200 nights a year in the wilderness for the last.

[202] Yeah, you probably do more than anybody that I know.

[203] That's one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you about this.

[204] And because you're, you know, your company, Kafaro, which makes, you know, some of the, this is some great backpack companies out there that make, like, amazing gear.

[205] But you guys make, I mean, there's no arguing.

[206] top of the food chain shit and one of the reasons why your company makes such good backpacks is because of your experience in the woods i mean you fucking live out there well it's it's weird so when i started uh patrick the the owner um he same way right i mean he's 80 now or however you know 79 80 he was the same way as i was so when i when i uh started there whatever decade ago he was um i wouldn't say enamored he was happy to see a younger guy that could not get out of the woods and so what was crazy where most people end up getting stuck in an office if he came in the office and I was in there and disgruntled he'd be like what are you doing go get your shit and get in the woods and he would want you oh there's no one he would make me there's I'd be like Patrick man we got a lot of stuff going on he's like and he always has glasses right he looks over the top and he's like son it can wait and I'm like okay so what he wanted was a guy and he quiz you know, there was a long trial period to find his successor, right?

[207] There was a lot of questioning.

[208] If we backpack in and he'd be like, hey, why don't you catch some fish, shoot a couple rabbits and a few squirrels for dinner?

[209] Like, all right, cool.

[210] And I'd do it, bring them back.

[211] Anybody, you want to clean them?

[212] I'm like, yeah.

[213] I mean, of course, I'm like, I didn't know I was testing you.

[214] I didn't realize that.

[215] I'm like, yeah.

[216] And then at one point in time, he told me, he's like, you have passed the test.

[217] And I'm like, I've been doing this shit's birth, Patrick.

[218] And he's like, everyone says that.

[219] Very people have.

[220] And my background, my hometown's only 200 people, right?

[221] I'm a logging community in Oregon.

[222] It's right off the Pacific Crest Trail.

[223] I mean, that's all we did.

[224] I was on a trail crew team clearing off wilderness trails with a fucking crosscut saw and a hatchet at 14 years old.

[225] That's what I did in the summers for money.

[226] That's crazy.

[227] Different lifestyle, right?

[228] I mean, my daughter, and I love my daughter to death.

[229] And she'd be like, Dad, did you have a job when you were my age?

[230] I'm like, I was running a fucking 72 -inch bar still chainsaw, honey.

[231] Yeah, I had a job, you know?

[232] She's, I've been able to pass a lot of those things on to her, but it's a different lifestyle.

[233] When I was in high school, you could have guns in your truck.

[234] You'd take him into the principal's office.

[235] He'd keep him in his office.

[236] And then when you got out, you'd go deer hunting when you, you know, and I'm not that much younger than you, but a little bit.

[237] I've heard those days.

[238] I've heard of those days.

[239] So, you know, it was something, you know, skipping school.

[240] We'd skip school to hunt.

[241] Yeah.

[242] Well, they'd take off opening day.

[243] Yeah.

[244] It was like a national holiday almost.

[245] It was a big deal.

[246] And so, you know, we didn't have any money.

[247] I was just poor as a kid.

[248] So we picked mushrooms, Chantrells, Gama Katsu's, Morels.

[249] That's what I did for school clothes, split firewood.

[250] It was a different lifestyle.

[251] And so as I've gotten older, you know, all of those things that I learned have carried on to where now I'm pretty, I can sustain myself for on just about anything.

[252] What part of Oregon were you in?

[253] Detroit.

[254] And is that, is that Roosevelt elk country?

[255] So it's east of I -25, so they're hybrids.

[256] So it's Rocky Mountain and Roosevelt hybrid?

[257] Yeah.

[258] So it's – Tam and I are right beside – I mean, we're super close from where I'm from.

[259] He's 45 minutes away.

[260] The first bow that I got, actually, I was 13.

[261] I'd mowed lawns all summer and worked or whatever, and we went to the bow rack, my mom, and that's just what – Springfield, Oregon.

[262] Yeah, we drove down there.

[263] And I don't even hardly remember my mom was telling me, and we bought a bow, and I didn't know what I was doing, right?

[264] And I would say, like, the way that, you know, at that time I was pissed because we'd go to football camps, I'd have, like, the poor kid stuff and whatever.

[265] But it makes you a lot better person, I think, is older.

[266] Yeah, that feeling, when you're poor and you're young, that's irreplaceable.

[267] You know, I still think about when I was young, like, not knowing if we were going to have enough food.

[268] Yeah.

[269] I think about that.

[270] I mean, we were on welfare when I was, like, seven years old.

[271] And I think about those days, because I remember being nervous that we wouldn't have enough food or people being mad at me that I ate too much.

[272] Yeah.

[273] Like, I've never been mad at my kids if they ate too much.

[274] Yeah.

[275] But I remember that I would get, people would get upset at me if I ate too much.

[276] And I remember thinking, man, we might not have enough food.

[277] And there's like a, there's something that gets instilled in you when you're poor, when you're young.

[278] There's a, like, a nervousness or a drive that I don't think you can replace in a kid that grows up.

[279] affluent I just don't think it's possible I would agree and I mean you've been around all walks of life like I have myself and the one thing I wouldn't take back is um you know now they'll be you know of course you get successful and people are like oh you know he's got money he's got this and it's like I remember my dad he worked for the highway department he was a sole provider for the family of four making like 1400 bucks a month and I had a sister and um you know my both my parents smoked my dad drank a lot of beers so whatever that that 1 ,400 went to, it was a lot less than that after those vices, right?

[280] And so when I needed something, you had to work for it.

[281] I remember working my ass off to get a pair of converse, which was a huge deal.

[282] They're like 50 bucks or something.

[283] Where now, you know, my daughter, she works hard.

[284] So I try to instill some of those things on her, but I also probably spoil her too much because I'm like, I do not want you to suffer a struggle like I. I know, isn't that funny?

[285] It's like what makes people interesting.

[286] I always say this about my friends.

[287] Like all my friends that are interesting grew up fucked up.

[288] All of them.

[289] all of them grew up in like crazy households and fucked up and and now they're just like me they all like really loving parents they love being a father and uh and i'm like god we're we're giving these kids a life that is going to ensure they're never going to be interesting yeah that's no shit i will say um thank god for my daughter because um i whatever she's five when we got divorced and on my side of things you've got backpack hunters and power lifters photographers you know team you know like like Tier 1 group guys, and Kaylee's like all walks of life.

[290] She speaks two and a half languages working on a third.

[291] Two and a half?

[292] She's not fluent in three.

[293] So I say two and a half.

[294] I don't want to say she's fluent three, but she's, and she's shockingly Caucasian and she speaks fluent, fluent Spanish.

[295] Like literally she's from Mexico.

[296] And so that kid is a good skill to have.

[297] Oh, it was, I just hired it at Kfaru.

[298] Because, you know, we have different, you know, people, some of our sowers and things.

[299] It's super handy.

[300] she can speak it well i i we've done good between my ex -wife and i because that kid budgets to a point i want to choke her because we she just moved up here and i'm like look i'll just pay for it she's like nope i don't want any money i'm gonna do it on my own i've budgeted all this and i'm like i must have done something right because i you know i would have prayed for help because i didn't have help after i think sometimes it's just genetics too it's what what makes a kid a kid a kid like i have one kid that's insanely ambitious and like super hyper focused and she whatever she gets into she becomes obsessed just completely obsessed and it's not because of want or need it's just some weird drive so it's like you know i think they call it epigenetics it's something that's transmitted down from parent to the child some desire to for perfection and things we should talk about that because that's interesting i brought up i've never smoked weed in my life never no coke no heroin no no nothing and my dad is a huge pothead right i am incapable of losing i hate losing my dad is the most uncompetitive man you would ever meet in your life and it's weird it's something skipped you know what i mean like yeah well that's my family too my mom is like real laid back like she's not ambitious at all she's not uh she's just real friendly and sweet and easy going yeah and i've always been just psychotically driven from when i was young i remember i came home once i was running in the snow and I was like 16 and uh I had run up we lived on the hill and I ran up the hill and I ran up the stairs into the house and I opened the door and it's fucking snowing like crazy outside and she's got a cup of coffee because it's early in the morning she was like I don't even know where you came from and then she just goes into the kitchen has breakfast I tell you what though it is good um you know I'm not fathered ear by any means but when we do you know simple things for your kid to see like we do backpack card.

[301] and Kaylee comes, you know, and she can see you're giving it everything you've got, you know, you know what I mean?

[302] They see that.

[303] That shit's, it's, it's, uh, you know, it, uh, they learn impressionable, I guess.

[304] Yeah, hell yeah, they do.

[305] Yeah, they say like the best way a guy can be a father to his daughter is to, to, to, especially like to set them up for the future is to show them how they should expect to be treated and show them how you treat other people like the way you behave around them is like what they're going to learn yeah like being if you're respectful and friendly like the way you are that that results oftentimes better for them to see than even what you teach them and tell them because what you tell them only goes so far but what they see when they see you drive or driven when they see you work hard when they see you diligent and respectful and friendly that's that's what really like sinks in yeah it's it's it's worked good so I crossed my fingers she's 19 so I mean I I wouldn't change anything where I was a little fuckhead when I was a kid I was a kid I was bad yeah I was a fuckhead I was a fuckhead for sure we were talking you know where I'm from while we're bouncing around a rabbit hole that I was there's a a lake I live on it's like nine miles long and you're your product of what you're surrounded by so you know the all my dad and his friends you know did not like tourists right so So we would cut boats loose and push them out in the lake for all the people camping.

[306] Oh, my God.

[307] Yeah, it's old enough now I can't get in trouble, right?

[308] Your dad was teaching you how to do that?

[309] He didn't teach that.

[310] He was just constantly complaining about tourists, right?

[311] So then we would wreak havoc and then go yogi baron, you know, get cammoed up, go steal everybody's beer in the middle of night.

[312] Why did he not like tourists?

[313] What was it?

[314] I don't, California was probably the worst one, right?

[315] I mean, freeing from Oregon, you know.

[316] If you're from Idaho, you bitch about people from Washington.

[317] Right.

[318] I don't, you know, my world was so much different because I left at 17.

[319] And, you know, I joined the Army.

[320] I was in the Army for a few years.

[321] And then I got out.

[322] And so from how I was raised to how I end up, it's just different, you know.

[323] I mean, 200 people in my hometown.

[324] I mean, I live in Denver now, for God's sake.

[325] So it's big difference.

[326] Giant difference, too.

[327] Well, I mean, social diversity as well.

[328] I mean, like, now, I, from where I was to, like, right now, the views I was raised with, and, I mean, everything has changed, you know, greatly for the better.

[329] I mean, I'm, you look back.

[330] I mean, I'm sure it's the same thing made you, you know, I mean, my dad was not exactly easy on me, but it, fuck, it made me tougher, so I can't wish about that.

[331] It's weird.

[332] It's like you wouldn't want to go through it again, right?

[333] You don't want to be, but there's some insanely valuable lessons in that.

[334] But I think, you know, I mean, I don't think it's impossible to raise a good kid, you know, if you're not struggling.

[335] I don't think it's impossible, but I think it's more difficult.

[336] What is that old expression?

[337] It's easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than to go to heaven.

[338] I don't know that one.

[339] I think that's an ancient biblical expression.

[340] Usually my sayings are much different than that.

[341] I usually get in trouble for them.

[342] But, yeah, I'm sure that sounds.

[343] I'm sure that makes sense.

[344] You just bust out your Copenhagen?

[345] I did.

[346] Am I cool to chew on here?

[347] I did.

[348] Do you need a bottle to spit it in?

[349] I got this here.

[350] We're good.

[351] How often do you have to chew that shit?

[352] It's funny you mention that about a can and a half a day.

[353] Cowboy gave me some once and I swallowed it.

[354] Oh, did you puke like Luke?

[355] Every time Luke borrows a dip.

[356] Oh, you manned up?

[357] It didn't even make me sick.

[358] Luke puked all over yesterday and he just, right in the film cruiser everywhere for the tournament, and Luke is just, you know.

[359] yacking like uncontrollably i'm like oh good god somebody get a camera on him jami thinks it's funny didn't even know you swallowed it which is like that i didn't know it's unbelievable to know that like that's so disgusting so he asked if you puked right away yeah no i didn't puke yeah that's pretty solid it's weird i drank for the first time with luke not too long ago i'm drank in a couple decades and oh really what made you uh i told him i would he said i want you to get you fucked up on my podcast.

[360] I was his first guest.

[361] And so, you know, you've known Luke for forever.

[362] I mean, I don't know if you, how many have you known, Luke?

[363] Decc.

[364] Quite a, we should say who he is.

[365] Luke Cordillo, he is involved in MMA.

[366] He's been involved in MMA forever.

[367] He used to be a fighter.

[368] Works with Justin Gage.

[369] He was a UFC interim lightweight champion.

[370] Yeah, I've known a long time.

[371] He's always been around.

[372] Yeah, so we shoot archery constantly in fact you know for everybody listening i've taken every bit of money from luke he's about to get divorced just to remind you of that luke and uh do you guys gamble on archery oh my god really and i'm not a good guy to gamble against in archery so i didn't know gambling and archery was a big deal but it makes sense it is in bowling and pool and we think about it if you have you know pick guys you get you know dudley and cam and me and you and leave i don't know if you levi morgan another probably the greatest archer ever hold a bow in his hand i hope hunted with him in Utah last year.

[373] Yeah, it's a super cool dude.

[374] We were in camp together.

[375] Yeah, great guy.

[376] Think about the amount of money if everybody's got a few hundred in their pocket in the shit talking starts.

[377] Well, Luke is the epic shit talker, but he does not have the skill level to back that up.

[378] He just loves talking shit.

[379] He does, and so I go to him into gambling.

[380] So yesterday, I think he's $45 short of paying up, but I'm pretty sure he's about to get a divorce from gambling too much.

[381] Oh, no. Yeah, it's bad.

[382] Well, in pool, they would always tell you that you should gamble.

[383] because it'll make your game better.

[384] Hell, yes, it will.

[385] Yeah.

[386] And I would imagine that that same thing would be said for shooting.

[387] Yeah.

[388] Because you would be able to fire under pressure.

[389] Yep.

[390] Are you packing right now?

[391] I'm packing it, yeah.

[392] I'm going to put an upper decker in.

[393] An upper decker?

[394] Yeah.

[395] Do you worry about mouth cancer with that shit?

[396] I don't.

[397] No?

[398] Jesus Christ.

[399] Look at the size of that wad.

[400] Holy fuck, dude.

[401] Oh, my God.

[402] That was crazy.

[403] Yeah, it's worse than the bottom lip.

[404] That was like a handful of grass.

[405] Like you just grabbed some mulch.

[406] Yeah, I started chewing Zen.

[407] You seen that?

[408] What's that?

[409] Is that fake?

[410] No, it's not fake.

[411] It's strong, but it doesn't have the carcinogens in it?

[412] What?

[413] How do they do that?

[414] Christ, man, no made me explain.

[415] Jamie, can you look at it?

[416] Yeah, how could they take the carcinogens?

[417] So, if people hear me coughing, it's not the COVID, folks.

[418] I did stand up this weekend for the first time in three months in Houston.

[419] Shout out to Houston.

[420] And my voice is shot from screaming.

[421] I didn't realize it, but your voice gets in shape.

[422] Yeah.

[423] You know?

[424] And my voice is way out of shape.

[425] After the first show, my voice was like a little hoarse.

[426] Did you pack the house?

[427] Yeah.

[428] Well, it's supposed to be at 75 % capacity.

[429] I think that's what they were saying it was.

[430] So it was packed, though.

[431] It was a lot of fun, man. weird.

[432] It was very weird to be back on stage again.

[433] A lot of fun though, but LA's bad right now.

[434] They just, the comedy store just furloughed all of its employees.

[435] They were hoping to reopen and they had opened as a bar.

[436] So they had outside patio seating and they had it all set up nice, social distance and everything.

[437] And then the governor just came down with another order to shut all the bars down.

[438] And now the comedy store has no money coming in, so they're fucked.

[439] And then it looks like it's not going to, they're not going to open up anytime soon.

[440] They were August or July.

[441] You know, that was the hope.

[442] And it looks like that's not happening now, so we're fucked.

[443] That sucks.

[444] It does suck.

[445] Because in Texas, they had it down.

[446] You wear a mask.

[447] People wore a mask in the audience.

[448] Everybody had masks, like getting into the building.

[449] All the servers had masks.

[450] You know, they check temperatures in places.

[451] They know how to keep people safe.

[452] You've got to give people the opportunity to make their own decisions.

[453] That's my thing.

[454] You know, if you want to wear a mask or stay home.

[455] That's your prerogative.

[456] But, you know, I'm not, of course, you know, I'm young and healthy, so I'm, you know, whatever.

[457] I'm not worried about it.

[458] But you lock people in, I mean, I don't see anything good coming out of that.

[459] No, it's not.

[460] It's not good for the economy.

[461] It's not good for the people.

[462] It's not good for their sense of, like, how they fit into the world.

[463] Well, and I'm kind of with you.

[464] I'm all for fat shaming or I'd be fatter than I am now if wasn't for fat shaming.

[465] The health, I mean, you think about it.

[466] How unhealthy people are getting just sitting at home.

[467] It's not.

[468] Good.

[469] 70 % of the United States is overweight.

[470] That's insane.

[471] I mean, that really is insane.

[472] And that's a real problem with COVID.

[473] They say that one of the major factors in COVID is obesity.

[474] Obesity.

[475] It's a huge factor.

[476] Yeah, which is, you know, in general or whatever, it's pretty, I get a kick out of how we're pretty soft, you know, as Americans.

[477] I mean, especially if you're third world countries and you look at, like, people are happy.

[478] They don't have to go to work.

[479] And I'm like.

[480] I know.

[481] A lot of people are actually making more money from unemployment than they would be if they went back to work, especially like waiters and stuff like that because you're dealing with a much smaller amount of people in the restaurants and businesses because they're, even in like Texas, even though the restaurants were open, I think they were at 75 % capacity and then they just rolled it back to 50%.

[482] So if you're working as a waiter or waitress, you know, you're going to make less money.

[483] So for some folks, it's actually better for them to say, oh, I don't want to do it.

[484] I'm just keep collecting unemployment.

[485] And you actually make more money that way.

[486] I've talked to a bunch of people that have said that.

[487] They make more money off unemployment.

[488] Well, we, yeah, at Kfaru, we just kept paying everybody.

[489] You know, we took a four months off, I guess, just paid everyone or whatever.

[490] And we, you know, I was looking at, like, how that worked.

[491] And I was like, good God, once I started reading about the, you're talking about the unemployment, I'm like, Jesus, there's going to be a lot of people that don't go back to work.

[492] And it's same thing in Colorado, but it's sad, man. It's really sad because there's a lot of people that are losing their businesses through no fault of their own.

[493] They didn't do anything wrong.

[494] They work hard.

[495] They're disciplined.

[496] They show up every day.

[497] They put together a business.

[498] And now it's folding.

[499] It's going under.

[500] And it might be happening to the comedy store.

[501] They don't know what they're going to do.

[502] And I heard the laugh factor is about to go under as well.

[503] So the state of comedy in California is in a real bad place.

[504] right now real bad yeah that sucks yeah it it i don't want to dive into this too much but i just it's it's it's fucked up it seems way blown out of proportion and i'm not a conspiracy theorist but how many people do you know they're sick personally i know one guy i almost died yeah and he's not a old guy his name's michael yo who's a comic and he uh there's a bunch of extenuating circumstances and one of them being that he has vitamin d deficiency another one being that he flew to New York with very little sleep, worn out, did radio and promotion, did TV shows, then did two shows at a comedy club, two shows the next night, flew back home, again, very little sleep, got in his car with his family, drove to Vegas to be with his wife's family, and then drove back home on the same day, so that's at least eight hours in the car, just driving, and then he had auditions the next two days, and he just was wiped out.

[505] It was burning the candle at both ends, And he got real sick.

[506] Real sick.

[507] Yeah, immune system was just crushed.

[508] Yeah, but you shouldn't do that.

[509] All those things, that's too much.

[510] You know, it's just poor planning.

[511] And then, you know, on top of that, I think he was run down already.

[512] Like, you might have had a little bit of a coal already.

[513] So it kicked in, and it was bad.

[514] I mean, he was hospitalized for over a week.

[515] And his doctor actually told him they were, you know, thinking about putting him on a ventilator.

[516] And his doctor said, if we put you on a ventilator, you'll probably die.

[517] And it turns out his doctor was a wise man because he was.

[518] Somewhere around 80 % of the people they put on ventilators in New York City died.

[519] Yeah, I heard that.

[520] That's crazy.

[521] The doctor was saying that if you put the guy, if you put him on a ventilator, his body would stop working.

[522] It's like if I give your body this machine that starts working for and your body stops working, there's no guarantee it's going to start working again.

[523] It's going to breathe on its own again.

[524] Right.

[525] Scary fucking shit, man. Yeah.

[526] But they, you know, but here's the big one, man, the real big one that drives me crazy.

[527] why are they not talking about how to take care of yourself instead of all this fear of you got to wear a mask and you've got a social distance and all that stuff is great yeah you should do that you should wear a mask you should social distance but you know what you should also do drink a lot of water you should also get sleep you should also stop eating sugar you should also take vitamins supplement your diet try to get some sunshine you know do do all the things that you need to do for health get exercise increase your cardiovascular capacity it's a giant factor and what you're whether or not you, you know, you recover from this disease or how quickly you recover.

[528] No, my buddy John called and he was like going on a tirade about exact same thing you're talking about.

[529] He, you know, he's, you might know him.

[530] He's a shooter, long -range shooter.

[531] He is a super fit guy, lawn mow.

[532] You know, normal dude, right?

[533] He owns like a lawn mowing deal anyway, but he's one of the better shooters in the United States or, fuck, I don't know, North America.

[534] Long -range rifle shooting?

[535] Yeah, yeah.

[536] He's crazy good.

[537] I would not want him shooting at me at 1 ,000 yards.

[538] And he, you know, his thing was, is why the fuck aren't we giving people dieting advice?

[539] Why are we telling people rather than having all these announcements?

[540] It's like, hey, we're losing so much money.

[541] Like, let's start focusing people as dietitians.

[542] Let's get people on a health food kick.

[543] Like, I mean, how many people, and you pick 100 people, 99, probably understand how to eat healthy.

[544] Right.

[545] Not their fault, right?

[546] They just, I didn't know until later on.

[547] Yeah.

[548] Yeah, so I agree.

[549] And I mean, you know, on my end, I'm sorry.

[550] super lucky we live at 10 ,000 feet you know well you I've had my wife drop me off the bottom of the mountain so I have to hike home to get dinner right you want you want a way to get healthy you fucking get to eat so she drops me off at the bottom of the mountain and I go to the top she she cooks all organic and I talk to some of these people that have other issues and they're worried about COVID and I'm like you're worried about fucking COVID right you've got a hundred other problems other than COVID right you're like diabetic and a bunch of other shit it's amazing Not to get on a diet thing, but America's pretty bad as far as that goes.

[551] We should put some money into that.

[552] Our health system is all about fixing you once you're broken.

[553] It's not about preventing you from being broken.

[554] Everything is about our health care system is all about care once you're injured or care once you're sick.

[555] It's very little is about preventative nutrition and making sure you take care of your body and education.

[556] I mean, our governor, our mayors, all these people are doing is just, talking about wearing masks, talking about staying home, flattening the curve, making sure they, I mean, all this shit they're talking that no advice at all about taking care of yourself, no advice at all on meditation, no advice at all on eating healthy and exercise.

[557] Yeah.

[558] It's sad.

[559] I say that as I just jammed a giant wad of chewing.

[560] How bad is that for you, though?

[561] I mean, if you...

[562] I mean, as far as like...

[563] What is it doing it?

[564] It gives you a little jolt, right?

[565] Yeah.

[566] Well, for me, obviously, the worst thing.

[567] obviously cancer, right?

[568] I mean, that's bad.

[569] But other than that, I mean, there's not...

[570] How many people get cancer from that shit?

[571] Is it real common?

[572] Man, I'd have to look that up.

[573] I don't know.

[574] What's that there?

[575] Neurogum.

[576] This is...

[577] You're going to get me other kind of shit I'm addicted to.

[578] This is good stuff, man. It's neutropics in mint form.

[579] You've already got me addicted to all that shit on it.

[580] You know what?

[581] The first time I took Alpha Brain, now that we're just diving down all the time, I had the most crazy -ass dreams, which I knew that shit worked.

[582] because I don't dream.

[583] And, but either way, I mean, as far as the Copenhagen, I'm just, my buddy was addicted to cocaine and Copenhagen.

[584] He tried to quit both.

[585] He's still chewing Copenhagen.

[586] So give you an idea.

[587] It's not easy to quit.

[588] But that Zen, what we were talking about, it is just nicotine in it.

[589] It's Z -I -N.

[590] Z -Y -N, I think.

[591] And this is the first time of my life, I think I'm going to be able to quit.

[592] So I went from a can and a half a day to about a can every four days.

[593] There it is.

[594] Are Zinn nicotine pouch is safe?

[595] Recently, a novel non -tobacco nicotine product.

[596] Zin has been developed is similar to snus.

[597] I never knew how to say that.

[598] Okay.

[599] Thank you.

[600] I think.

[601] However, it contains no nitrosamines.

[602] Is that the word?

[603] Nitrosamines.

[604] Or polycylic hydrocarbons, which may be potentially, may potentially be carcinogenic.

[605] The overall safety of Zin is.

[606] better than snooce.

[607] However, it only has a little bit less nicotine than snooze.

[608] Okay, what does that mean?

[609] I don't know.

[610] What did you say?

[611] Don't read anything bad.

[612] You're going to take away my birthday here.

[613] I, uh...

[614] So it's a pouch?

[615] So you don't have to pack a wad of mulch and stuff it into your face?

[616] Yeah, yeah.

[617] It's a little more professional.

[618] It just gives you a jolt.

[619] I tell you what, I put two of them in the first time and I got dizzy as shit.

[620] So it's got some strong...

[621] I mean, because they say it's a hundred cigarettes and a can of chew.

[622] Really?

[623] Equal of Copenhagen.

[624] Oh, my God.

[625] Really?

[626] Oh, man. A hundred cigarettes worth of nicotine?

[627] That's what they say, yeah.

[628] So how many cigarettes worth was that giant wad that you stuffed in your face?

[629] I don't know.

[630] I'm sure I'm going to get some hate mail from this.

[631] I'm talking about being fat and unhealthy and I'm chewing Copenhagen, but I, uh...

[632] Well, it's a stimulant.

[633] Yeah.

[634] Well, the other thing, the physical addiction, that's the problem with Zen.

[635] You don't spit, right?

[636] You know, you get used to that.

[637] I mean, I've been chewing forever.

[638] Well, do.

[639] It tastes good.

[640] Maybe that's why I got.

[641] dizzy um i got like a citrus one or whatever but i just uh it's the first time my life where i've been like yeah honey i think i might be able to quit one of the stunt guys i used to work with on fear factor used to swallow his chew and he told me uh that he learned he used to swallow the spit you know and he termed he learned how to do that on sets because you couldn't just carry a bottle around spit into it or spit into a cup yeah so he just would swallow the juice and i thought it was so fucking disgusting it is disgusting habit that's pretty bad So, but, but yeah, I don't know.

[642] Whatever, we'll see.

[643] I guess in three months, if I text you and be like, hey, I fuck, I quit.

[644] Do you drink a lot of coffee, too?

[645] No, I mean, I drink a decent amount of coffee.

[646] I mean, I have my caffeine.

[647] You know, I get migraine, so I'm 500 milligrams a day.

[648] Really?

[649] So you take caffeine to avoid migraines?

[650] No. I just know that I, because I get, as I say that, when I got on TRT, I get a migraine once every three months.

[651] I was getting them once a week.

[652] Really?

[653] Whatever TRT did, which I have to thank you for that, right?

[654] That's, we'll talk about that in a minute.

[655] Okay.

[656] I learned really quick seeing neuropsychologists and brain doctors.

[657] They don't know what fucking thing about the human brain.

[658] They're like, here, take some more pills.

[659] No. And so I literally.

[660] They don't wear in real trouble.

[661] Well, they're giving me these band -aids, and I'm like, look, I don't want something that fixes after I got it.

[662] I don't want to fucking get them, right?

[663] Like, you know, this thing could probably take my, make my asshole turn around, start talking back to me the fucking negatives to this.

[664] This pill I'm taking from my migraines are so bad.

[665] And you, was it one of those pills?

[666] There's some pills that you take it once a week.

[667] I just take it when I get one.

[668] So I have ocular migraines.

[669] Like I couldn't tell you two apart when I get them.

[670] I get blurry vision.

[671] Oh, wow.

[672] An hour before I get the migraine.

[673] So I take that pill as soon as I get blurry vision.

[674] Now my head itches and I'm all kinds of goofy.

[675] There's some kind of anti -anxiety or depressing in that thing.

[676] There are a bunch of other shit.

[677] I don't know.

[678] But I don't get a migraine.

[679] But those pills cannot be good for you.

[680] I wanted to get to a point, is it my diet?

[681] Is that what's giving me the migraine?

[682] Is it caffeine?

[683] You know, because there was a time I didn't take any caffeine.

[684] So I map out everything and I kept a log of when I got migraines.

[685] And so once I got, that's why I know exactly.

[686] Describe what it feels like.

[687] I've never had a migraine.

[688] What does it feel like?

[689] Jamie pounding a fucking nail through my eye socket.

[690] So just intense pain.

[691] I got him so bad.

[692] I had to get a spinal epidural for to, because I was out.

[693] heaving up blood because I was convulsing basically what I'm not the only one yeah yeah so when you get them um and they're not all that bad but you get sick and you would vomit uncontrollably and then your esophagus would rub together or whatever and you bought vomit of blood um and so so you're from explain like where's the blood coming from you're you said your esophagus is rubbing rubbing rubbing together heaving um no different when your kidneys rubbed together when you dehydrate you pissed blood same principle except that you're that's what that is your kidneys are rubbing together is this all science yeah I've peed blood a few times on backpack hunts you run out of water kidneys rubbed together and you'll they rub together that's what's causing it yeah I guess so that seems wrong well I'm not a doctor I just play one on a podcast but I've had doctors tell me that's why your kidneys rub together well so your esophagus is rubbing together from you heaving from the pain of the migraine from the yeah from the migraine Motherfucker.

[694] So people listening to this, I'm sure you're going to get all kinds of emails.

[695] Because when I started talking about it on a podcast, I started getting tons of people.

[696] This is what I took to get rid of them.

[697] I mean, literally hundreds of people that have suffered from migraines.

[698] And I've had a lot of concussions, you know, shit.

[699] So I'm sure that's part of the problem.

[700] Well, part of the problem is my blood pressure is extremely low.

[701] When did you get the concussions from the service?

[702] I had one bad one there.

[703] I had two bad ones in football.

[704] Flip the bike over.

[705] Got kicked in the head.

[706] once later on.

[707] It was pretty bad.

[708] I was in a car wreck and another one.

[709] So I've had nine.

[710] And did the migraines come after that?

[711] Yeah.

[712] Yeah.

[713] Yeah.

[714] And actually, I recently had, you'll like it at a, I don't know if you mad to listen to it.

[715] I had Steve Tetrell.

[716] He was a, I was stationed with him in Korea.

[717] I got hit with an AT4, got fired off a rocket launcher.

[718] I was right behind it.

[719] That's how I got that big knot on my head up here.

[720] That was when they started.

[721] That was bad.

[722] And so whatever.

[723] Michael Yo, who we were talking about before, he actually played football in high school and college and he had some real bad concussions and he gets migraines because of that as well yeah that's i think there's probably a connection well i would i would think it's that have to be but one thing i notice is my whatever's gone on in my melon um my blood pressure is low and i got a bit of a temper problem and so when i my anger spikes up my blood pressure rises i get a migraine the next day there's a real connected you know like brain damage and temper is very connected well i started working on meditation like i really really, you know, it's helped in my shooting because I can really focus out of, you know, I can get, I mean, it's weird as it sounds, right, you become one with yourself, right, trying to.

[724] So try and keep my blood pressure low.

[725] Well, I think with the TRT, my blood thickened up some from when, you know, when I wasn't taking it, my blood was super thin, maybe that's it.

[726] So when you say thickened, like more red blood cells, like what does that?

[727] Well, when I say thickened, this has no. scientific, nothing.

[728] When they take my blood every three months, when they first took my blood, it ran like water.

[729] When they took it the next time, they were like, hey, your blood's thickened up, whatever that is, blood cell count, I don't know.

[730] They were like your blood is thicker.

[731] It is not as thin or runny as it was before.

[732] And I'm like, is my blood pressure up there?

[733] I said, well, it's normal now.

[734] For everybody listening, welcome to another episode of two morons talking about medicine.

[735] As we're saying that, I told the lady that I work with, and she basically said the same thing.

[736] She's like, well, we'll take credit for it, although I don't know that it has any scientific weight on the subject, but the moment I started taking TRT...

[737] There goes.

[738] Testosterone increases a chance of clot formation in two ways.

[739] A common side effect of testosterone therapy is...

[740] And we go with the words, polythemia, which increases the body.

[741] Supply of hemoglobin and hemacrit, hematocrit affecting the blood cells.

[742] This can increase the blood pressure and thicken the blood slightly.

[743] There you go.

[744] See, I'm not full of shit.

[745] Logic.

[746] I was 100 % truthful.

[747] So, science.

[748] Whether that has to do with it, that's just a redneck we avoid saying I don't get migraines anymore and that could be why.

[749] Whatever the actual scientific reason is, my blood is definitely thicker and my blood pressure is normal.

[750] Well, one of the things that happens also to people that have had a bunch of head injuries is your endocrine system doesn't function properly.

[751] Your pituitary gland doesn't produce hormones correctly, and it makes people depressed.

[752] Gotcha.

[753] Makes you very lackadaisical, lethargic.

[754] It's very difficult to get motivated for things.

[755] And they find that with football players, particularly with soldiers, a lot of soldiers that are treated by my friend, Dr. Mark Gordon.

[756] He runs this traumatic brain institute.

[757] And the whole goal of this was essentially to try, initially to try to figure out why these soldiers.

[758] and football players and martial artists and all these people were experiencing so much depression and what was going on and it turned out that, man, your pituitary gland is really sensitive.

[759] Yeah.

[760] The endocrine system just get really fucked up by even jet skiing.

[761] Well, luckily, like, they, like, having my blood tested every three months, you know, I don't go to the doctor.

[762] I'm bad about that.

[763] And so that was, like, the first time I had a physical, basically.

[764] And so...

[765] Ever?

[766] Yeah, a couple decades.

[767] Yeah.

[768] I don't...

[769] I got pneumonia once, and I went to the...

[770] a doctor for that.

[771] I almost died.

[772] I was too stupid to, you know, how a man's, or a woman, whatever, how a certain individual's brain works is stupid looking back at it.

[773] I thought I had like allergies or something.

[774] And I'm like, hey, let's go do cardio.

[775] Let me work this out of my system.

[776] I work my ass right into the hospital.

[777] I double on pneumonia.

[778] And, oh, wow.

[779] Yeah, I'm an idiot.

[780] I'm trying to push.

[781] Yeah.

[782] Oh, yeah.

[783] I pushed my way right in almost death.

[784] I got pneumonia when I was 19.

[785] It was rough.

[786] Well, it took me like six months to get back on track.

[787] The lady was super nice.

[788] I remember going in and she's like, hey, who's your doctor?

[789] I'm like, I don't have a doctor.

[790] And she's like, well, you have Kaiser Insurance.

[791] I'm like, if I have a doctor, I haven't seen him, you know.

[792] I'm like, you tell me who my doctor is because I don't know, you know, because they assign you a doctor.

[793] You're not one of those responsible people with a regular doctor.

[794] Negative.

[795] I'm horrible.

[796] I'm like the worst adult or no man. It's bad.

[797] And so she, they gave me the x -ray and they're like, you have double lung pneumonia.

[798] Adulting is hard.

[799] It is.

[800] You know, people give me. you know, you suck at anything, some good of photography shooting.

[801] I'm like, yeah, I'm fucking horrible at adulting.

[802] I didn't find my taxes for four years.

[803] I've got a lot of downfalls.

[804] Oh, it's all taken care of now.

[805] When I have people at work that come up with an issue and they're kind of embarrassed, I'm like, look, there is nothing you have fucked up that I haven't.

[806] Do not be embarrassed.

[807] I can help you.

[808] Because I focus on so many other things, things like that, just get pushed to the way.

[809] Do you find that because of all the time you spend in the woods that it's kind of difficult to concentrate on all that silly?

[810] ship because it's when you're out in that primal environment, you know, like there's something about it that makes all that other stuff seem meaningless.

[811] You don't want to focus on it.

[812] Yeah, because we live in a society where it's important and I'm not good at it.

[813] It's horrible.

[814] I talk about it all the time at work.

[815] I mean, I hire people really smart around me because I'm just not, you know, we could be sitting there in a meeting.

[816] I shouldn't even say this out loud, which is an extremely important meeting.

[817] And I'm sitting here and thinking what my gear list is and how much my caloric intake will be on a five -day backpack hunt.

[818] It's normal, though.

[819] If you're spending 50 % of your time, literally sleeping under the stars.

[820] Because we'll get done with a meeting.

[821] I'm like, all right, who took notes?

[822] But I am now, have gotten better at just telling people ahead of time.

[823] Like, hey, you're going to talk with me. We're going to do our initial bullshit session.

[824] You're not going to want to deal with me after this because I'm going to let you down.

[825] I'm too busy.

[826] You're going to deal with Frank or Dane or Anders or whoever that works for me. You're going to deal with him.

[827] Don't expect me to come through because my mind's on too much other stuff.

[828] And I've had to get a lot better at that because I just don't function well on stuff like that.

[829] Admittedly so.

[830] One of the reasons why the company's so good and you guys make such good backpacks is because there's real, like it's hard to put it down in the real world.

[831] You know, it's not like accounting or bookkeeping.

[832] And like where, you know, oh, we have to do the work here.

[833] But doing the work of actually sleeping under the stars, actually camping, actually hunting and hunting.

[834] hiking.

[835] That's, there's, that's invaluable, man. There's been a few heated arguments over that where they've given me crap about paperwork.

[836] And I'm like, oh, you know, totally, I get it.

[837] I'm going to get better paperwork, but your ass is coming with me on a 10 -day backpack hunt.

[838] And you're not fucking slacking and you're getting water and you're building fires and you're spotting animals.

[839] And when we get done with that, if you're as good at that as I am, then I'm going to get better at paperwork.

[840] But until that fucking day right now, what we're good at It's making badass gear for the backcountry.

[841] That's why I hired you.

[842] Yeah, it's kind of worked together, right?

[843] Like, you've got to be able to do that and they've got to be able to do the shit that you can't do.

[844] Yeah.

[845] And we have a tight -knit group now, which is great.

[846] Like, we have everybody knows their role and we're all supportive of each other.

[847] But there's times where I got to kind of stop and really take a gut check where I'm like, man, I have so solely focused my life on living and not dying.

[848] like hunting and staying alive to where thank god for my wife right i mean she's an angel because like she's working at by a house right and so we i shouldn't admit this on this we go to get credit right credit like i check my credit score when would you say is the last time i had credit i don't know when was the last time you had credit what would you take a guess with a normal human uh four years ago 20 so they're like well your debt to income ratio is great which it's unheard of and i'm like oh cool they're like you don't have any credit and I'm like I got a cell phone like no you don't have any credit because you don't have like a leased car or you haven't had a mortgage or any of those things I've been out of fucking anything and so I was like so let me get this right I'm not going to say how much I make but I do good I'm like so my wife makes substantially less has substantially more bills and her credit score she gets approved for more than I do well they want to they want to show that you have a history of paying things back like I was told that early on like to get credit you should actually get a loan i was like well wouldn't it be better if i saved money well no it's actually better if you spend money and and pay the bills well i can tell you i made an ass of myself at that loan office because i was like are you fucking kidding me i'm like so i can go right now and buy a vehicle cash but that's bad and they're like that's bad that's bad my wife was laughing her ass off because she knew how i i live like a caveman i mean i don't get bills I save and I buy like I bought a tundra I paid cash for it isn't shouldn't that be healthy I thought it was that seems like it's fiscally prudent well you are wrong Joe because I was literally I was like so we had to go it's fun so I go to believe or not I go to discount tire I got approve for $1 ,200 which is insane for what I make and I'm like so this is I can get four tires that's all I got and they're like well you don't have any you don't have any credit and so my credit score now is like I don't know what that means.

[849] So you have to just buy more shit with credit to get credit.

[850] Oh, my wife went and got, we got a BNH photo card.

[851] We got, so we just got a bunch of cards that we could pay off.

[852] I maxed them all out so she can make payments.

[853] It is fucking weird, isn't it, that we exist like that?

[854] I mean, that's the only way people could buy houses, really, though.

[855] I mean, if you're making $100 ,000 a year and you want to buy a $600 ,000 house, that's not even possible.

[856] You'd have to, by the time you're done saving, I mean, the house would be worth more than that anyway.

[857] Well, she, my wife gets a kick out of it because she knows how, I mean, you know, she's super close to me. And so she knows how my brain functions.

[858] And I'm like, why don't people just work harder and put, you know, go do some side jobs, just figure shit out.

[859] Well, she's like, yeah, no, people don't do that, honey.

[860] You're weird.

[861] They put it on credit.

[862] And I'm like, well, I'll go put somebody's shower door in.

[863] I'll figure it out.

[864] Well, living in your life that way for 20 years is not good.

[865] Well, a lot of people are finding that out because of this pandemic, that living like that with credit and, you know, having high bills and paying those.

[866] bills off.

[867] And that's what a lot of companies did because they thought it was the right way to do it.

[868] And those companies are fucked right now because they've had no income coming in at all for three or four months and it's going to implode.

[869] My buddy Andrew Schultz said it best.

[870] He said this pandemic has exposed weaknesses both in people's healths and in businesses financial health.

[871] It's exposed the flaws in the way they operate.

[872] No, it was an eye -opener for me. And this isn't like something to be proud of that I haven't been good at adulting for 20 years, but I just, I literally was like, oh, if I want to set up binoculars, I'll save up and buy binoculars.

[873] How many people contacted you to talk to you about hunting, though, once shit started getting weird?

[874] An awkward level.

[875] And not just hunting, sustainment, because can I, I'm trying to name, but Barclow.

[876] Yeah, John Barclow works with Sitka Gear, and he and I are, if he wasn't my brother, you would have never known.

[877] Same mentality, same thought process, same ideas on gear.

[878] I love that guy.

[879] We just did a podcast.

[880] He's like, are you sure this isn't going to piss anybody off?

[881] I'm like, fuck it, they need to hear it, right?

[882] And so...

[883] What were you pissing people off with?

[884] The reality of how life works, living in the woods and the people that fake it, basically.

[885] You know how many people, you know, stay out there three days and all of a sudden they're experts, right?

[886] Yeah.

[887] The reality of...

[888] Take a lot of photos.

[889] Yeah, yeah.

[890] The reality of living, being able to survive and be happy, and then what you read and everything else, basically just, you know, talking about that.

[891] So with the, okay, so everybody grabbed toilet paper, right?

[892] In third world countries, you wipe your ass with your hand.

[893] You don't worry about toilet paper.

[894] So toilet paper's gone.

[895] Wet wipes are gone.

[896] You go to the grocery store, everything that lasts forever is still there.

[897] Like you get pasta, top ramen, simple stuff.

[898] It's all on the shelves, but all these things that Americans have to have.

[899] I'm not saying I want to wipe my ass with my hand by any means, but you don't need toilet paper to survive, right?

[900] You need clean water.

[901] Right?

[902] You need food.

[903] Body will last quite some time, three or four weeks without food.

[904] With water, it's a couple days.

[905] And so I'm looking at all these things leaving.

[906] And I have all my, I'm not like a prepper by any means, but we've got crap to house.

[907] And I was, you know, so this came story time for my wife where I'm explaining to her what would happen if everything kind of shit hits the fan and what's going to happen.

[908] And Americans are so weird with the way that we think.

[909] And so I had tons of people from what kind of gun, what kind of survival.

[910] survival stuff, fire starter, what kind of stove.

[911] So, you know, isobutane stoves, a canister stove, that's the end thing.

[912] Everybody uses those.

[913] But a multi -fuel stove, when the world comes, when the world ends, the zombies are coming, a multi -fuel stove burns kerosene, diesel, gas, white gas, burns everything.

[914] No one uses those anymore.

[915] They're a little bit heavier.

[916] But things like that, that multi -fuel stove, everyone should have one of those because you can, no matter where you go, you're going to have some type of fuel to burn in that thing.

[917] So we talked a lot about that on the podcast.

[918] That was a lot of the questions I got was, you know, sustainment, basically.

[919] So, I mean, it's a weird world we live in, but I live, I definitely live probably in a weirder one in some ways.

[920] Yeah, I mean, everybody wanted to know how to get a gun.

[921] Everybody wanted to know how hard is it to go hunting for the first time.

[922] Those are the questions that I got a lot.

[923] Like, how do you get a gun was a big one, and there was lines outside the L .A. gun stores.

[924] It was really crazy to see.

[925] Well, my wife was worried about it.

[926] I'm like, honey, don't worry.

[927] I'm going to take theirs.

[928] Like, don't worry.

[929] They don't know how to use it.

[930] We're good.

[931] If somebody comes trying to get your stuff Oh, well, in my, with a local game warden, he was, we taxed back and forth, he was like, dude, you would not believe how many people are like, I'm just going to go wait it out, drove their asses into the mountains and set up some Walmart tent and then a snowstorm hit.

[932] Like this isn't a story.

[933] He's like, dude, we're pulling people out like crazy.

[934] They were doing this in March?

[935] Yeah.

[936] No experience.

[937] Yeah.

[938] So he was laughing.

[939] He's like, dude, you would not believe the amount of people that were like, I'm going to go wait this thing out in the woods.

[940] And it's like, you're camping beside the road.

[941] You're not really waiting anything out.

[942] People don't even understand.

[943] Once you're just one night by yourself out there and you would have a totally different understanding of what it actually means to exist in the wilderness without assistance.

[944] And it's very scary.

[945] We're so accustomed to life with assistance, whether it's buildings or electricity or air conditioning and refrigeration and all the different things that we use supermarkets.

[946] We're just so doughy.

[947] Oh, yeah.

[948] So soft.

[949] What's the longest you've gone without talking to somebody?

[950] Not very long.

[951] Jamie?

[952] Maybe a day.

[953] So you look at like alone.

[954] I explain into my wife.

[955] I'm like, the gear they have is enough, right?

[956] They have enough to survive.

[957] I was like, what kills people is they are alone.

[958] They don't have that many people to talk to, right?

[959] They don't, the fear.

[960] Think about how many people are afraid of the dark growing up.

[961] And then what to do?

[962] you know what to do if something happens there's all that unknown and that to me like we go out for fun for 14 days backpack in with what's on our back for 14 days and we're choosing to do that and what about solo what's your longest solo trip 14 14 solo and boy you better not have any fucking skeletons in your closet oh man I talk about this a long time you want to talk about everything you fucked up in life by about day seven you're like I'm a piece of shit I should have done more for my kid.

[963] Why didn't I?

[964] Because you have seven days to think about everything you've done wrong.

[965] And that's one thing that people really need to understand is getting right with, which I've tried to work on a ton, is just getting right with everything in life that, you know, up until that point, like any wrongdoings you've made, any anything, any skeletons, just try to clean them up.

[966] Well, if you stay busy in life, you can avoid all your mistakes.

[967] You stay busy, you don't think about your mistakes.

[968] But when you're alone and you have downtime, that's when they creep into your mind.

[969] Well, and then sleep deprivation, water deprivation, food deprivation, all of that, along with, you know, being alone, starts to take a toll on the human mind.

[970] And it's funny you see, same with alone, but same backpack hunt.

[971] You know, I get thousands of emails.

[972] You know what?

[973] I'm going on my first backpack hunt, going in for 14 days.

[974] And I'm like, yeah, you're probably not going to go in 14 days, but that's your plan, right?

[975] You're going to go in about three.

[976] Colorado loves you.

[977] You're going to donate 500 bucks to an oak tag, and you're going to get in there, and you're going to bitch out, and you're going to head back out about three days.

[978] We're going to take your money and not give it back.

[979] Is that the average?

[980] Yeah.

[981] Three or four.

[982] So a lot of guys think they're going to be able to do it.

[983] And what gets them, you think?

[984] What's the first thing that gets them?

[985] Other than mentally weak, right?

[986] That's the what gets them.

[987] That's the big one, right?

[988] Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, not to bring up Cam again, but he blew that up like it was fun.

[989] He's leaving in it.

[990] He's crazy.

[991] I have to say, like, he's not a gear geek, right?

[992] Cammer's just harder than woodpecker lips, right?

[993] He's not a gear.

[994] When I see he's not a gear geek, he's so fucking tough.

[995] Like, I talked about this seminar the other day.

[996] I used him as an example.

[997] He pushed this Gortex Bivvy, which is the worst thing in the world of sleeping.

[998] But he's so tough, he doesn't give a shit.

[999] Well, all these people are sleeping in.

[1000] It's a Gortex coffin, right?

[1001] You can hardly punch your clown in that fucking thing, let alone have fun in it.

[1002] And so when weather comes in, you're in this Gortex coffin.

[1003] You can't do anything.

[1004] Your gear.

[1005] So Gortex Bivie is just, like, basically, like, a sleeping bag that's made out of waterproof material and you just sleep in it and it probably has no breathability or very little very little i mean it has some but you get condensation in your footbox and then if you use down your footbox is wet once a down's wet it's flat it's no good it's a contractor's bag pretty much yeah and i mean they make some that are decent um but you know i would laugh so hard when cam was coming up and people are reading all this stuff and i'm like yeah you're not fucking cam right like you know you can do you can think you want to be And when you go, when you hike in, usually, you know, if you're coming from back east, right?

[1006] You forums and all Facebook, whatever, all the shit you different get.

[1007] And you're packing way too much shit, right?

[1008] Like, gear list -wise, which I can go over in a minute, but you're packing probably 30 pounds of shit you don't need.

[1009] And so then you're smoked going in.

[1010] And you've watched way too much Primos videos and you think the elk are just coming screaming in on a, and that fucking doesn't happen.

[1011] And then you don't see them.

[1012] and then the oh like my knees hurt right or oh i got to get back to my business all the excuses come up you know and you can come up with some shit right i've heard some amazing excuses for coming out the realities are just not tough enough and i'm not saying that like you know me or cam or frank or whoever's tougher but the reality is if you were mentally tough and you really wanted it you would stay as long as well and a lot of that mental toughness comes with the experience too i'd imagine And it also comes with the experience of forcing your body to do tough things.

[1013] You know, one of the things that Cam talks about is that he really got into endurance racing to improve his hunting.

[1014] When he first told me then, I thought that was the dumbest thing I'd ever heard.

[1015] I was like, I don't even get it.

[1016] Like, you're running to improve your hunt up.

[1017] But then once you do it for a while, you go, oh, okay, I get it.

[1018] First of all, I had no idea you get that tired hunting, just hiking.

[1019] Just walking around the woods is fucking exhausting.

[1020] And then when you add a pack, especially if you're living, living off your back like you do, you know, just the way I do it, where if I'm staying in a lodge or, you know, I've got a tent somewhere, just carrying your stuff that you're hunting with is exhausting.

[1021] But it's also something about continually and regularly pushing your body and your brain way past the point where you want to quit and doing it so that you're comfortable with being uncomfortable.

[1022] And most people in everyday life are not comfortable with being uncomfortable.

[1023] They never really get to that place.

[1024] Yeah, if you become friends with pain, you'll never be alone.

[1025] And that's what you're going to look at it.

[1026] Like, and I'm not trying to blow it out of proportion because it is fun if that's what you're into.

[1027] But reality, you're looking at two to seven to eight miles in.

[1028] And in Colorado, you're at 10 to 12 ,000 feet.

[1029] When I think about preparing for those things besides the shit that Cam does, I think about that fucking machine that you showed me that's an inclined treadmill that has barbells on the side that you lift up.

[1030] So you're carrying this thing where you're going up a treadmill?

[1031] Former carry.

[1032] What is that thing?

[1033] The Hitmill X. Pull that shit up.

[1034] So, yeah, we have the name for that, which we can cuss on here.

[1035] So it's called the cock sucker.

[1036] Because it, I put 45s on either side.

[1037] The problem with that name is some people like sucking cock and everybody likes getting their cock sucked.

[1038] Nobody likes getting on that goddamn thing.

[1039] When we first got it, so how I got, which actually this leads into.

[1040] Do you do that thing.

[1041] Oh, it's a bench.

[1042] So this thing, you're doing a farmer's carry uphill on a treadmill.

[1043] And folks, when I tell you, just looking at this thing hurts my feelings.

[1044] So how I got that, the guy...

[1045] I have to get one of those.

[1046] The guy that's, which I guess, like, whatever, we can talk about this, the guy that's actually purchasing Kafaru with me. I took him on a goat hunt.

[1047] The day before we went on a goat hunt, he had that downstairs.

[1048] And I'm like, dude, that is, like, perfect.

[1049] And he was like, man, get on it.

[1050] So I got on it with no weight.

[1051] He had 45s on either side.

[1052] And I'm like, this is made for backpack hunting, right?

[1053] Yeah, I would imagine that's probably other than actually hiking yourself.

[1054] That's probably one of the best ways you could ever get in shape for that.

[1055] Well, you think about it.

[1056] You look at like his little video there.

[1057] So what I do is I have a 45 to 60 pound pack and I have two 45 pound dumbbells.

[1058] And then I'll do five minute intervals with just a pack.

[1059] And then I'll grab the dumbbells and I'll do five minutes of shrugs or just holding the weight up with the 45s.

[1060] then I go and I put it down to like basically a half mile an hour and I do a truck pull and I put my hands and you're basically just driving forward with your body not parallel to the ground but just like if you're pulling a truck with a harness and I do that and then I do those three exercises and intervals for 30 minutes and I'm pretty fucked up by the time I'm that that looks like pull that picture up again the video of that shit that looks like one of the hardest things you could do in a gym if you're carrying that weight like in that farmer's carrier and you're going uphill on a It's a self -propelled treadmill, too, right?

[1061] I have one of those outside, one of those air runners.

[1062] Yep.

[1063] I fucking love it.

[1064] Well, you can't break it is what's nice, right?

[1065] Right.

[1066] When you have the self -propelled.

[1067] Well, it's just so hard to work on.

[1068] Yeah.

[1069] But that thing's amazing.

[1070] And does it vary the pitch?

[1071] Can you raise it and lower it?

[1072] You can't vary the pitch.

[1073] You can just vary the resistance.

[1074] So I hit the brake when I'm doing a truck pull.

[1075] I drop the brake on it, and so you literally...

[1076] You can vary the resistance of the treadmill itself?

[1077] Yeah.

[1078] There's a break.

[1079] Oh.

[1080] Yeah, but it's on the left side.

[1081] Oh, my God, that sounds amazing.

[1082] But one thing about stabilizer muscles, though, I would think that they don't necessarily get the same work.

[1083] What if you did it with what?

[1084] Do you remember those shoes that they got sued for?

[1085] Kim Kardashian was promoting them.

[1086] They're like real fat, mushy shoes.

[1087] Like, and so they made you kind of stabilize while you're walking.

[1088] Yeah.

[1089] Yeah.

[1090] Yeah.

[1091] I would think that those actually would be good to wear on something like that because it would be.

[1092] You know what a sand dune stepper is?

[1093] Yeah, they suck.

[1094] Yeah.

[1095] In a good way.

[1096] Yeah, I got one out here.

[1097] Yeah, they'll burn out the...

[1098] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1099] They work different parts of your leg.

[1100] Yeah, right, because you try stabilizing, right.

[1101] And I would imagine, like, having a sand dune stepper -type shoe on while you are going on that thing would be the ultimate.

[1102] Well, you're right, and people do not think about that.

[1103] And that's one thing that guys that just run on pavement, flat ground, when you say a stabilizer muscle, whatever you want to call it, the left and right part of it, of your shins.

[1104] The first time you take a guy out that hasn't hiked side hills, it's like 35 degree slopes with a 45 -pound pack, their legs are, their calves are smoked, and the left and right side of their shin bone is just toasted because they're not working those.

[1105] And that lateral stability, people understand that's why I'm not a runner, so I don't like running, but I train with a pack on and I hike everywhere.

[1106] And so we, I do a lot of side hills just to get those muscles ready for that because it's a different world and it'll it'll kill you i mean you'll be down for a couple days because they're so sore and stiff if you never used them and that treadmill does not help with that but when i said like that the sandsepper sucks it's a good suck because it's a way indoors you can yeah yeah one of the ways uh i try to explain people stabilize stabilizer muscles is uh upside down with kettlebell press i was like take a kettlebell they can press fairly easily like a 35 pound kettlebell Most guys can press that overhead.

[1107] Now take it and flip it upside down so that the handle is on the bottom and the kettlebell is above.

[1108] So you've got to balance that sucker out.

[1109] And as you're lifting it, it's way more difficult to do.

[1110] And that's using your stabilizer muscles.

[1111] Yeah.

[1112] Another thing is those bamboo bars.

[1113] Have you ever used one of those?

[1114] Yeah.

[1115] Yeah.

[1116] We put all those in.

[1117] Well, some of that shit I copied from you for my home gym.

[1118] That's another one.

[1119] You don't realize how much those kicked the shit out until you get them.

[1120] Yeah.

[1121] They're pretty amazing.

[1122] It looks so easy.

[1123] But when you put, when you got a bamboo bar and I do it, I hang kettlebells with rubber bands.

[1124] So I have like heavy resistance bands that are hanging the kettlebell.

[1125] So it's all bouncy.

[1126] Yeah.

[1127] And so as you're lifting that fucker, it's, oh, but that, you know, really stabilizes everything, keeps everything tight.

[1128] It's funny how much you can torture yourself with very, torture yourself with very little.

[1129] I got that big rope.

[1130] And I just, my forearms, I got issue.

[1131] Well, I talk to you about a tendonitis or whatever.

[1132] So me doing the rope workout, it's just I wasn't doing it.

[1133] It was hurting my forearms.

[1134] And so I turned that into a rope drag.

[1135] I hooked one of my belts from Kafaru and hooked a harness to it.

[1136] And I pulled to that thing in half and wrapped it with guerrilla tape.

[1137] And I dragged it up and down my driveway.

[1138] Fuck me. That's horrible.

[1139] It's bad.

[1140] But I say bad.

[1141] When you've kind of committed your life to backpack hunting, there's only so many ways that you can get rid.

[1142] You know, you just got to beat the shit out of yourself.

[1143] To get ready.

[1144] Yeah.

[1145] To get ready.

[1146] So, like, people think I'm crazy.

[1147] We live at 10 ,000 feet.

[1148] My wife drops me off the highway, and then she goes home and cooks.

[1149] She goes with me a lot, too, but.

[1150] How far is the walk?

[1151] Anywhere from two to five miles, depending on where she drops me off.

[1152] And it's getting a couple thousand feet.

[1153] It's a climb.

[1154] It sucks.

[1155] But the best way, if you're not feeling like working out, is have your wife leave you in the middle of nowhere.

[1156] Because you're fucking getting home, right?

[1157] Right.

[1158] Necessity.

[1159] Yeah, necessity.

[1160] And so when people don't, I try to put myself in a position to where I have to.

[1161] do something if that makes sense because there's days you just don't feel like doing shit i mean right so i just make my wife drop me off and i'll tell her you know i you know i would say earn my day i'm like i got to earn my day you know and i keep tracking my steps on my watch and so she'll drop my ass the bottom of that fuck her 50 pounds and she'll laugh leaving i always tell people one of the best ways to make sure you do something is have a list just have a list of what you got to do today just make sure you're doing it just write it down it seems so crazy but if you don't have a list if you don't have it written down what you absolutely have to do, man, you're going to slack off.

[1162] You're going to find reasons why you should do less, especially if you do, like, what I do is when I lift, I train myself for the most part.

[1163] You know, sometimes I work with trainers.

[1164] I work with a kickboxing trainer now, but most of my weightlifting sessions I do by myself.

[1165] So I have to write out what I need to do.

[1166] Yeah.

[1167] And if I don't do that, I mean, then I feel like a pussy.

[1168] Yeah.

[1169] But if I have it written down, like today you're running two miles in the hills.

[1170] Yeah.

[1171] Today you're doing this.

[1172] Today you're doing that.

[1173] If I don't do that, you're not going to get it done.

[1174] If you could just give yourself a manageable goal to start with, just real simple.

[1175] Make sure, like, for every day this week, you're going to do 40 push -ups, you're going to do 50 sit -ups.

[1176] Just give yourself some kind of manageable goal.

[1177] Get a chin -up bar.

[1178] Do 20 chin -ups every day.

[1179] Just do that.

[1180] That's a manageable thing.

[1181] Like, you can do that in 30 minutes.

[1182] You could have all that done, and you're good.

[1183] But if you force yourself to do that every day, man, you're going to feel real results, real results.

[1184] Like at the end of the week, you're going to go, fuck, I did it.

[1185] And then ramp it up some more, ramp it up some more.

[1186] But it's all about writing it down.

[1187] Yeah, I got a whiteboard.

[1188] In fact, I wrote something on the whiteboard once and a bunch of people.

[1189] I think you and Jocko did a podcast because the one day I just wrote on there, just do something.

[1190] Yeah.

[1191] And I think you guys must have done a podcast and talked about that.

[1192] Because I, you know, people, I mean, I know it's not everybody has a free schedule, but even when I work in construction, you can make time.

[1193] Most people can make time.

[1194] Now, I don't sleep that much, which isn't a good thing, but...

[1195] How many hours you get at night?

[1196] I recently got up to six, which is pretty good for me. I was at four for a long time.

[1197] Damn.

[1198] Yeah, but if you heard my day, right, I...

[1199] Is it because you want to sleep four?

[1200] I mean, were you getting up early, or is it just you have insomnia?

[1201] I have insomnia.

[1202] I have insomnia.

[1203] I just don't sleep.

[1204] I go to sleep well.

[1205] I just don't sleep for that long.

[1206] When you wake up, is you waking up?

[1207] up with something bothering you in your head or you just fuck i'm awake i'm just like fuck i'm awake and i got a lot to do and so but it's gotten better to where um i've been tracking it on the watch um i uh i think you got a g shock there's where this is one of those ones tracks my steps and calories and everything so i is that a garment yeah it's a fuck is this phoenix six solar i think um does that work on solar power uh it helps it yeah helps with battery life so i i i didn't not like the original because they died pretty quickly uh you know The batteries, this one lasts almost like three or four weeks.

[1208] Really?

[1209] And the way that I navigate off an UTM grade coordinate, I don't need to leave it on very long.

[1210] So it works.

[1211] I can use it for a long time.

[1212] So that work with navigation, how long will it last?

[1213] Man, if you left it on, I would think, man, three or four days maybe?

[1214] Really?

[1215] So in that three or four days, it's supplementing with solar?

[1216] Is that what it is?

[1217] Yeah, yeah.

[1218] Wow.

[1219] So that's fucking amazing.

[1220] So the way that I, you know, navigate, which actually going back to the board, I can't agree with you more.

[1221] Like, I just write shit down.

[1222] And it may be three sets of 50 crunches, three sets of 50 push -ups.

[1223] Make sure you do it.

[1224] Yeah, and then check them off the list, right?

[1225] And so those are the days when I say I don't want to do anything, those are the days on my ass is getting dropped off the bottom of the hill because you fucking have to do something.

[1226] You're going to get home.

[1227] But with the way that I navigate, and I get people crap about this all the time, right?

[1228] You got a watch and a garment inreach and a GPS.

[1229] You got all kinds of shit to navigate and you don't know how to fucking use it.

[1230] That's like a big pet peeve of mine.

[1231] You got all this technology.

[1232] You hit the easy button on everything.

[1233] You never learned how to use it.

[1234] And so I'm like a real stickler on land nav, like learning how to navigate to a certain degree and not just using a GPS.

[1235] And so what I do is I use an 8 or 10 digit UTM grid coordinate and a map.

[1236] What does that mean?

[1237] So the way the world was.

[1238] mapped, basically, and I'll try to explain this as I can.

[1239] From top to bottom, there's lines drawn around it spaced, and then there's horizontal lines drawn around it.

[1240] And each one of those is a square.

[1241] And as you break that down in squares, you end up with a thousand -meter grid square.

[1242] This is like a very plain -jane way to explain it.

[1243] Inside of that grid square, when I turn this on, it tells me inside of that grid square how far I am from left to right and how far I am from bottom to top.

[1244] So easting and northern.

[1245] And so inside that 1 ,000 meter grid square, my pinpoint location is a 10 -digit grid coordinate within three meters of my location.

[1246] So anyway, once it gives me that, I can plot out and up to where I am inside that grid square on my map and gives me my exact location.

[1247] So what it means is if I'm all fucked up and I have no idea where I'm on, I just turn on my watch and it tells me. And then I plot it out on your watch, and then you just look down at the map to save power.

[1248] But you actually know how to use a compass and navigate and actually use a map.

[1249] Yeah, exactly.

[1250] That's a lost skill.

[1251] You'll have all these different grid squares.

[1252] Okay.

[1253] And so this is a...

[1254] For people just listening, he's drawn stuff right now on paper.

[1255] So if this, it's a thousand meters over and a thousand meters up, a thousand meter box.

[1256] Okay.

[1257] So if I take a line and I'm 700 meters easting or to the right, so I go over 700 meters, and then I'm 300 meters up, I go up 300 meters where those intersect.

[1258] So then you know where you are.

[1259] Where I'm at.

[1260] And so what people don't understand, like if you talk about intersection and resection, if you're lost, so let's say, Jamie, you've been in the woods very much?

[1261] So you're out and you don't know where you're at.

[1262] But you know two known points.

[1263] So meaning you can see a mountain over here and here and you know what those are and you have a map.

[1264] from where you're at you can shoot an azmuth to the top of this mountain what's an asmuth uh you take your compass and it's the uh basically out of the 360 degrees it's the um the azmuth or the the direction of that mountain from where you're at so you take that um and then you do a back asmuth and you draw a line from the top of that back the top of that mountain backwards so if it's over 180 you subtract if it's under 180, you add.

[1265] So you look at it, so that's northeast, and so then you look behind yourself and you go that southwest?

[1266] Nope, nope.

[1267] So if I'm lost, but I don't know where I'm in.

[1268] But I know this mountain and I know this one.

[1269] And I shoot this, you know, azmuth with my compass.

[1270] And I know, so right now, this is 90 degrees.

[1271] So that's about 45 degrees.

[1272] So that is under 180, so I add to it.

[1273] And so 180 plus 45 is, what, 220?

[1274] So now I go to on my map, the top of this mountain, and I do an azmuth, and that azmuth is going to be 225 for the top mountain is going to cross my exact location.

[1275] And are you writing this stuff on the map, or are you just looking at it?

[1276] Yeah, I'll write it on a map.

[1277] And I go to this mountain, I do the exact same thing, and where those two lines Chris across is my exact location.

[1278] When you draw on your map, do you use a marker, do you use a highlighter?

[1279] Like, how do you do it?

[1280] I have an erasable pen.

[1281] I keep with me. It's just a little like a sharpy, erasable pin.

[1282] And I have a protractor.

[1283] Anyway, just because this is a course that takes weeks to actually learn how to do it.

[1284] Is this from the military, these skills?

[1285] I learned this originally when I was on that trail crew team.

[1286] And then it was, I learned more and more and more when I was in the military.

[1287] I went to some land nav schools.

[1288] And what they do is they drop you off and they give you, they give you two 10 digit or eight digit grids.

[1289] One's where you're at and one's where you're going.

[1290] And then you have to plot from, I'm going to lose you here in a minute.

[1291] And you're like, this is boring as fuck as it is.

[1292] But you're going to have two, you have to convert it from basically there's different north from where you're at.

[1293] There's a grid north and a magnetic north.

[1294] Anyway, before we get really fucking boring here, once you learn how to do that, you're never lost.

[1295] You can train associate.

[1296] You can with a, you know, and so I'm a real stickler on using all of those things.

[1297] So I've taught my wife how to do it.

[1298] It's not that difficult, you know, once you get going as far as.

[1299] So this is something you learn when you were really young, when you were.

[1300] cutting trees?

[1301] They have 14.

[1302] So you learned it then, and then you learned more.

[1303] Have you been formally trained in this stuff?

[1304] Well, in the military, I was formally trained.

[1305] And I went to a class, but I was so young, I can barely remember when I was working for the Forest Service.

[1306] And then now I teach courses for this because the ability to get where you're going is kind of lost now because you just turn on a GPS or you use base map or on X or.

[1307] or whatever.

[1308] Right.

[1309] But the reality is, is navigating if you're in a hurry.

[1310] So if you and I, you know, were in the woods and we needed to get to a basin before dark, you're going to have handrails and catching features.

[1311] You know, if you can look at that map and see it in a three -dimensional way, and I can grab my compass and say, hey, if we head northeast, you know, the whole way half -ass, we're going to hit this creek and that creek's going to intersect with a trail.

[1312] I don't have to use my compass anymore, really.

[1313] I'm going to shoot an azmuth, and I'm going to look at the farthest point I can see.

[1314] see to where we need to go that I'm going to be able to see the whole way.

[1315] And that compass is going to go in my pocket.

[1316] We're going to haul ass.

[1317] Eventually, we're going to get hit a creek somewhere, but generally where that creek's at, let's say a trail crosses it.

[1318] There's a handrail and a catching feature there.

[1319] Anyway, this is boring shit.

[1320] But it's not.

[1321] I can get there quick.

[1322] But it's interesting.

[1323] It's like very few people know how to do this.

[1324] And this is a critical skill if you do get lost and a lot of fucking people get lost in the woods.

[1325] One of the things that you were talking about your podcast once that I never really took into consideration was the fact that a lot of people, binocular holders harnesses have magnets on them yeah a lot of people love those like I've got one of those um marsupials it's nice yeah but those can fuck with your compass yeah you got to hold it out he was giving me shit because we partnered up with them because he said my sales went down from you dickhead and I was like dude it's just it's got to be said right I mean yeah it's got to be said otherwise people are going to die well it's funny because I even have I have a compass in my I keep Your compass with me all the time.

[1326] Do you really?

[1327] Yeah, it's fucking weird, I know.

[1328] On my, when I had a G -shock, I had a compass beside it.

[1329] On the watch.

[1330] I'm beside it, a little sunto.

[1331] The thing is, it's like when I was hunting out of Texas, I don't know where the fuck I'm at, right?

[1332] You know, it's Texas, right?

[1333] And we're on these huge, it's North Texas, so it's like big plateaus and that, did you see that Paladuro Canyon where we were at?

[1334] It's like the Grand Canyon.

[1335] It's fucking crazy.

[1336] So, you know, where we are, you know, these guys have lived there their entire lot.

[1337] And they're like, oh, it's northeast of where you're at.

[1338] I guarantee they know where they've farmed it their whole lives where I'm like, fuck, the fucking sun's not up.

[1339] The clouds are out.

[1340] Which way's northeast?

[1341] Well, oh, there's northeast.

[1342] So I just have always, you know, carry, you know, always have a compass with me. But being lost when you're young and almost dying, that'll help you probably want to learn too because we, when I was super young, during cotton and shit and snowing and rain and Oregon.

[1343] You got lost?

[1344] Oh, fuck.

[1345] Yeah.

[1346] I almost died twice.

[1347] Really?

[1348] How old are you?

[1349] I got stuck out overnight.

[1350] 11 the first time Jesus Christ You were by yourself Well now let's I don't want to make this sound Way worse than it was I was a dip shit And I was with my dad He's probably drinking With his buddies And I went after a deer And got all fucked up And I couldn't find my way back Whoa When you were 11?

[1351] Oh my God I can't even I have a 12 year old daughter I can't imagine Oh man my My poor mom Right Dealing with the shit She had to deal with me Because I was backpacking When I was super young Right Like backpacking all over the place and I've always liked to do it.

[1352] So you can imagine you're, you know, nowadays, like if my daughter at 15 said, hey, I'm going to go on a four -day backpacking trip into the wilderness, I said, like, well, fuck me, can I go?

[1353] Right?

[1354] Wherewith my mom had to deal with a lot of that as a kid.

[1355] I was always super adventurous.

[1356] I just think that that feeling of not knowing if you're going to survive and then surviving, I don't want my kids to have that, but God damn, that's invaluable.

[1357] Well, I tell you, when you, we talk about it all the time.

[1358] I mean, that's one of the reasons I have so much respect for a guy like Frank or Jake.

[1359] They have no fear of anything.

[1360] When you get to the point where there's no mountain, truly, no mountain too high, no valley to whatever.

[1361] The saying is there's nothing that stops you.

[1362] You will get out.

[1363] And most people lack that.

[1364] Meaning, if you've backpacked in, whatever, six miles.

[1365] And as long as you can get the animal out, especially mule deer, you can pack it out.

[1366] And you see a mule deer two and a half, three more miles in.

[1367] and you have no, you're like, oh, yeah, it's like going to 7 -Eleven.

[1368] We're going, right?

[1369] There's not, and this is normal for any backpack.

[1370] I'd say Camber.

[1371] I'd say the same thing.

[1372] There's nothing we can't get to.

[1373] There's nothing we worry about.

[1374] We have enough gear.

[1375] It's a cool feeling, you know.

[1376] I mean, I don't think about it anymore, but it's definitely helped put some animals on the ground.

[1377] Well, it's also, there's a mindset that the hardcore backpack hunter has that they look forward to those challenges and overcoming those challenges.

[1378] And then when those things happen, it's something that you have prepared for.

[1379] So it's actually like almost like a positive experience.

[1380] Yeah.

[1381] And then you get out and you tell people how far in with you, nine miles, wow, pack it out one trip.

[1382] Oh, you know, it was a big fucker.

[1383] We had to take it twice.

[1384] I mean, I know a lot of guys have ruined their body doing that too, though.

[1385] I know quite a few guys that have sustained injuries with a heavy pack.

[1386] I have like crazy stories.

[1387] When one of our buddies, it was he and I, and he killed an elk, and we were seven and a half miles in.

[1388] Anyway, he got it on the ground.

[1389] Well, he's a younger guy.

[1390] Anyway, we split it in half, and it was downhill the whole way.

[1391] And I know I can pack you for infinite amount of time downhill.

[1392] So I'm like, ah, fuck it, it's downhill.

[1393] I didn't want to come back.

[1394] So we're having our little hobnob meeting that next morning, we're getting ready to go out.

[1395] And that night I ate everything I possibly could, like drank water all night.

[1396] I picked up the pack and I'm like, I think we can make it.

[1397] Fuck it.

[1398] If we can't, we'll just leave some of it on the trail come back up.

[1399] So we got 178 pounds, legit, we weighed it in the truck.

[1400] Oh, my God.

[1401] And he had 184.

[1402] Oh, my God.

[1403] So on the way down, these aren't bullshit.

[1404] This fucking probably took 10 years off my life.

[1405] So we go on the way down and I took his bow and he took my walking sticks and we're bushwhacking for the first two to the trail.

[1406] And Frank and I went and re -acted this because I'm like, dude, I got to go see how bad this was because I was in fucking spirit world like half the time dude it was bad and so frank and I we did it and we marked it out and it was actually plus or minus right in that seven mile range so we get to the trail I'm like look dude I'm not leaving you behind but I'm fucking leaving you behind I can't go this slow I'm like I'll get to the truck I'll turn around and come back and grab you because I was fucking hurting bad and um I called my buddy you probably seen him on there he's actually I can't say his name he's a sF dude I call him I'm like dude Dude, I, I need a pickup.

[1407] I need you to come help us out.

[1408] And he's hardcore motherfucker.

[1409] He's like, yeah, I'll be up.

[1410] Let me talk to my wife.

[1411] He'll be up there.

[1412] So I pass him on the way out on the trail.

[1413] And I've got, I thought, like, a half mile to go because I could hear the highway.

[1414] And he's like, dude, you got like a mile and a half.

[1415] I'm like, are you fucking kidding me?

[1416] He's like, can you make it?

[1417] I'm like, oh, I'm fucking making it.

[1418] Like, it's mind games now.

[1419] Like, I'm not letting this beat me. And I'm like, but you got to go ahead and get my buddy.

[1420] He's fucked up.

[1421] So I get to the trailhead.

[1422] I get the pack off.

[1423] I'm laying in my underwear under the truck.

[1424] And if I had an IV, I would have gave myself one.

[1425] There's hikers.

[1426] It was awkward, right?

[1427] There's hikers.

[1428] But I was like, fuck it.

[1429] I'm done.

[1430] So I'm just trying to get under the truck was in the shade and the wind was blowing.

[1431] So I'm laying there literally just sprawled out four points of compass trying to cool off because I was worried by getting heat stroke.

[1432] I get hydrated and thank God.

[1433] You know, my buddy went and helped my other buddy.

[1434] Anyway, he gets back and he's like, dude, he was fucked up.

[1435] And I'm like, how bad he was like when I got there.

[1436] And I keep my, my buddy did not.

[1437] not know he had help coming.

[1438] So he's on his hands and knees on the wrong side of the trail looking for water and the creeks on the other side of the trail and you can hear it.

[1439] Oh my God.

[1440] So this is how, and again, I'm not trying to blow this out of proportion.

[1441] It just happens, right?

[1442] You start talking about cognitive skills, dehydration and everything.

[1443] So my buddy's like, hey, dude, what's 4 plus 4?

[1444] Like he's checking him.

[1445] He's a medit.

[1446] He's a 18 -Delt.

[1447] He's a medic.

[1448] And he was fucked up.

[1449] He hadn't eaten anything.

[1450] He hadn't drinking water.

[1451] His brain wasn't working right and so that's just one example of how fucked up you can get from you know you got to be careful like you can do damage to how long did that hike out take i did about a mile an hour coming out wow so sevenish about yeah it was bad fuck but i give you like you know that's so long i can man there when i was with uh pinch he's the sniper guy he shot his goat at he was one of those dudes, he wanted to shoot it at 40 and in with a bow or a thousand and out with a gun.

[1452] I can't remember the exact yardage, but it was over a thousand yards.

[1453] So he shoots this thing across this glacier.

[1454] It took us six hours to go 11 or 1 ,400 yards straight line distance to a point where I'm like, we're going to fucking die getting down to this thing.

[1455] Like at one point in time I slid down, of course I'm a dick, my knee slamming to my face.

[1456] And I'm like, we're all good.

[1457] Come on down.

[1458] I don't want to be the only one in pain, right?

[1459] Here comes everybody else sliding down.

[1460] And pinch is like, are we going to get out of this?

[1461] this i'm like well we don't have a fucking choice now we slid down it we got to get back up right and so we didn't get back till two o 'clock in the morning and we were still four miles then so when people you know like the idea of backpacking hunting that's what they're liking is the idea of it because can't glamorize the shit out of it it's fucking painful he's not he's not a normal human you can't go by his standards no his ideas they say that she punting is the hardest They say that, like, Alaska, sheep hunting in terms of, like, just the difficulty of the terrain and the dangers of it.

[1462] Yeah.

[1463] Somewhat.

[1464] Yeah, I would say, I've only been on a couple sheep hunts in Alaska, right?

[1465] Most of mine have been in lower 48 or the NWT, the Northwest Territories.

[1466] The thing with Alaska that's easy is you're not gaining that much altitude.

[1467] Distance is far.

[1468] you're not but the weather is bad like generally the weather's pretty bad and then that the amount of pressure now and again i'm not an expert on alaska the pressure is much worse than it's ever been in alaska in terms of the amount of hunters hunters yeah a lot of hunters out there yeah and then animals grislies and shit yeah which is a fucking real you've seen us get charged on video yes when you were at the gritty bowman that was terrifying yeah that was crazy i uh tell i'm an adrenaline junkie I'll tell a true story Okay Because it's not I thought we were calling him moose And I'm like Look in and I'm like I think there's a moose coming And a grizzly pops out I'm like hey Get your camera Let's call this thing in This is the true story Because we made it sound like it was Oh here comes a grizzly So I thought it was gonna get to that Fucking stump and stop right You called the grizzly in on purpose He's coming into a moose call right So Oh no I'm like hey Grab the cameras let's get this on video Because he was looking for our moose calls So this big bitch gets by that log And she stands up She's looking around And I'm like, oh cool You can hear my shutter on the video Fuck, it hit the ground And it was coming And I'm like, oh Well, and immediately me I've been charged enough To where I'm an adrenaline junk Anyway, I'm desensitized And I'm like, well, he's gonna eat Fucking this other dude anyway So I'm like You can see my camera's shifting right A little as I'm taking these photos I didn't have a weapon at a bow And so here pretty quick I'm thinking Shoot this motherfucker It's like 15 yards from us.

[1469] Oh my God.

[1470] He fired off around at its feet and I knew his gun jammed on the second round sometimes.

[1471] So I'm like that fucking piece of shit Brownie Able doesn't jam on this second one or whatever it was right?

[1472] Not saying a Browning's bad.

[1473] Well it stopped do you remember and it came again?

[1474] I think it's like 12, 10 yards when it finally turned off and ran away but 10 yards is nothing.

[1475] Well I tell you like that's almost like that wall.

[1476] Yeah it was big too.

[1477] It's a big one.

[1478] was that in bc yeah that was in bc in reality though you talk to um like uh bring up the lancasters or who i went with when i stayed in the n w t for that two months time frame those guys live up there i bet if you asked uh a bart or a clay landcaster how many times they've been blessed charged bluff charged it's like triple digits like well just hunting with those guys the shit that they've done triple digits meaning a hundred times at a minimum Oh, my God.

[1479] So, like, the shit those guys deal with, they've been doing it since birth, right?

[1480] And so I was telling, like, like, Amy and Frank, I was like, okay, you guys know how much I've done and all the different thing, you know, hunted and how many animals I put on the ground.

[1481] It's a fraction.

[1482] Clay Lancaster's been on 320 sheep hunts.

[1483] 320.

[1484] That's a lot.

[1485] That's not including caribou, moose.

[1486] He's been all over the world.

[1487] So the amount of experience those guys have and the stories, like, when I get the.

[1488] those guys on the podcast, it's hilarious because I, you know, I just got to experience the two and a half month section of it.

[1489] We were literally from a light bulb, from a paved road, hours from any electricity.

[1490] Like, it's a 12 -hour drive to where the helicopter picks you up, and then you're flown in another two hours.

[1491] So when I got bit by that bite, it was funny, by that spider, it was funny at first.

[1492] What was on him about?

[1493] Oh, yeah, I got bit by a spider up there.

[1494] And I'm like, hey, Clay, my leg's fucked up.

[1495] I think I got bit by something.

[1496] He's like, ah, there's nothing poisonous up here.

[1497] Well, my, about fucking died.

[1498] My, uh, my legs swelled up and we're drawing circles around it.

[1499] Well, the first couple circles, right, wasn't that big of a deal.

[1500] So Clay cuts it open and listen to the podcast.

[1501] He's hilarious because he squeezed that thing and I acted like it didn't hurt.

[1502] I thought he was going to pass out from fucking shock.

[1503] So squeeze the pus out?

[1504] Yeah.

[1505] I don't know that it helped, but it gave him pleasure.

[1506] What kind of spider was it?

[1507] Man, you got to listen to the podcast to hear the whole story.

[1508] But we ended up calling it the Longcock Black Hobo Spider, and there's a story beside that.

[1509] But I think it was a hobo spider.

[1510] Those are dangerous.

[1511] Yeah, but I don't think they're overly poisonous.

[1512] I think I was allergic to it.

[1513] But the moral of the story, in six hours, my leg locked up straight.

[1514] There was veins going up towards my heart, and I had cold sweats.

[1515] Heart rate was racing.

[1516] And Clay's like, dude, we got to get you out of here.

[1517] You're going to fucking die.

[1518] Like, we are a long, long, long ways from...

[1519] Anywhere.

[1520] How far?

[1521] Four hour helicopter ride, but then you're dealing with some fucked -up doctor in the northern part of fucking white horse.

[1522] You know, where's the fucking was?

[1523] It wouldn't have been good.

[1524] So I called my buddy who's a medic, and I was like, dude, what should we do?

[1525] And he's like, all right, piss on it, bleach, ibuprofen, fucking get some shit.

[1526] Yeah, because I guess, like, bleach cleans everything out.

[1527] Like, he's giving me, I can't remember all this stuff.

[1528] So Trump was right?

[1529] I don't know.

[1530] What is drugs?

[1531] exactly but I was like holy shit I was like okay so we're pouring pee on it we're like crushing up ibuprofen and yeah do you pour pee on it do you let your buddy pee on it so here's the thing one of my buddies must have a big johnson because he was ready to pee on it right there and I'm like dude pee in a fucking bottle I'm like I don't want to see your wiener while you're peeing on my leg and so you wouldn't want it right off the tap somehow another it's better if you pee's in a bottle and then pours it on you it would have been awkward and think of the stories that have been told After about getting pee on me on.

[1532] Well, either way, we were pouring pee on my leg.

[1533] But it was a matter of survival.

[1534] Isn't that funny that you'd rather have a guy pee in a bottle and then pee and then pour that pee on you than pee on you?

[1535] I guess looking at it that way.

[1536] It's weird.

[1537] I get it.

[1538] I'm right there with you.

[1539] I understand your thought process.

[1540] I think I'd let the guy piss on me, though.

[1541] At the time, I was like not overly worried.

[1542] And then when my leg locked up, it's so it was.

[1543] If you measured my leg, it gained two and a quarter in circumference inches.

[1544] That's how much my leg swelled up.

[1545] Oh, wow.

[1546] That's a lot.

[1547] Yeah, I mean, I'm laughing about it now.

[1548] But what was funny is once it went back down, we just duct tape towels around my calf muscle to go on moose hunts because it was so fucking painful.

[1549] When the infection was going down because of the willows, we're beating it up.

[1550] And I'm like, I really want to see some 70 inch wide moose.

[1551] Let's just take, so we taped towels around my calf.

[1552] So you never made it out of there?

[1553] No. So you just dealt with it while you were in the woods?

[1554] That went away in like a 24 hours Oh Yeah it wasn't that It wasn't But you didn't think it was going to You thought you were gonna die Eh I don't want to make it sound worse than it was It got a little nerve wracking there towards the end My fucking heart started racing And I'm like So your body's not good When I have an infection Infections are fucking dangerous man Well that I had veins Going up my leg Like you can see the veins That you're saying That's what Clay was talking about it Because I was Of course you have veins going up your leg That's how you get blood Yeah and it showed them a lot So they were blue or something?

[1555] It looked like an etchice sketch going up my leg.

[1556] Dark?

[1557] Yeah, yeah, dark.

[1558] So you were worried that the infection was making its way to your heart?

[1559] Well, from what limited knowledge I had was that is a pretty much sure thing you're going to fucking die.

[1560] Do you carry any antibiotics with you or anything when you go into a hunt like that?

[1561] I do when I go to Canada now because of their weird government.

[1562] I shouldn't even say this.

[1563] I have friends that will prescribe them to me to take with me. Now, last in 18, I don't even remember, my hands looked like Deadpool's face from that milkweed or some shit.

[1564] I was, shit that happens in the backcountry.

[1565] What happened?

[1566] So I'm on that mule deer hunt, and my hands are swelling up, and I don't know why.

[1567] And they look like Deadpool's face.

[1568] And I'm like, what the hell is wrong with my hands?

[1569] I'm looking around like, what could be around me?

[1570] It's not poison ivy.

[1571] and my hands are swelling up like a remember that movie uh big trouble in little china yeah the asian dudes hands well yeah it looked like that well as it turns out it's um hogweed or milk i don't some fucking plant that does that and if you if you now if you google it and you pull it up it's fucking nasty but if you want to google um hogweed on certain humans it has this crazy rash inflammation so my hands it's affected by sunlight it's worse so I'm at 13 ,000 feet and I'm on the spotter with my hands in the sun all day to a point like and at 13 ,000 feet the sun is way stronger fuck yeah yeah like you get really burnt up there use a solar charger it charges up your shit twice as fast because you're that close to the sun is that really what it's from or is it just a lack of oh my god look at that giant hogweed look at the hands it wasn't good let me So my hands look like those ones in the middle.

[1572] Blow that picture up in the right -hand corner.

[1573] That is crazy.

[1574] The one that you see, the large picture.

[1575] The one, yeah, look at that.

[1576] What the fuck, man. That's from Hogweed.

[1577] So go to the left.

[1578] The one in the middle there.

[1579] That's what my hands look like.

[1580] No, the one in the middle.

[1581] The left.

[1582] That one, yeah.

[1583] They look like that.

[1584] So Frank comes over and he's like, dude, what the hell is wrong with your hand?

[1585] I'm like, you know, that's a good question.

[1586] So we come out.

[1587] because I I dude it was bad and I go to the doctor right and I'm like you know I go to the emergency room and I'm like hey I what does that hogweed look like just so I know it's it's you get some people have gotten third degree burns from it whoa it's it's not good can we see an image yeah yeah that's just like a little plant yeah that's it that stuff that's beautiful yeah and I was low crawling through that shit oh my god giant hogweed and it's toxic cousins wow that's crazy so but you those are the things you just don't think about right so i went and they gave me i don't know all kinds of steroid cream and shit and it went away in a day or two and we biked back in this looks like a flower i would have never imagined so this is just how did it get on both your hands your hands just rubbed up against it well you figure it's there's big fields of it and i've got my bow hanging and i'm low crawling and just like it would any weed so so to mitigate that what do you do you wear gloves is there something you can put on your hands i don't know i just look how fucking tall that shit is Yeah, I just kept my hands out of the weeds the next year.

[1588] Oh, my God.

[1589] Toxic giant hogweed plants show up in Duncan.

[1590] Lake, I don't know, you just made it too big.

[1591] Lake Cowichan Gazette.

[1592] Yeah.

[1593] Where is that, Duncan?

[1594] I don't know.

[1595] Look at the size of that.

[1596] It's like fucking nine feet tall.

[1597] It wasn't that tall where I was at.

[1598] It was three foot tall, right about even with your hands.

[1599] Oh, perfect.

[1600] Yeah.

[1601] So just that weed has like some sort of an oil or something like that?

[1602] That's what they said.

[1603] The doctor's -in -iv -type deal?

[1604] Yeah.

[1605] Well, it's funny because when I went, they had nothing.

[1606] idea.

[1607] I'm like, hey, my buddy from Alaska messaged me. And he said, dude, I think that's hogweed.

[1608] I'm like, what's the same reaction you did?

[1609] What the fuck is hogweed?

[1610] Googleed it, drove across the road, Kaiser's, uh, whatever, emergency room things like right across the road from Kfarro.

[1611] I drove over there and I'm like, hey, you know, I'm all screwed up.

[1612] And they're like, what it, you know, they don't know what it is.

[1613] And I'm like, hey, this is what I think it is.

[1614] They googled it just like we did.

[1615] And they were like, oh, well, that makes sense because they didn't know.

[1616] And then they gave me like this steroid cream to put on it.

[1617] And I don't I went away in a couple days.

[1618] Jesus Christ.

[1619] So between that and the bite, what was worse?

[1620] Oh, the bite.

[1621] The bite was that much worse.

[1622] I could have kept hunting with that.

[1623] I just not knowing what it was.

[1624] Well, we'd been in there 12 days.

[1625] I'm like, ah, it's about time to come out anyway.

[1626] So we came out.

[1627] What was crazy, we came out a couple days.

[1628] We go back in and Frank's already got his deer.

[1629] We go back in.

[1630] And Frank, I thought his appendix burst, as it turns out, he just ate too much sushi.

[1631] and it got clogged up in his stomach, but Frank is harder than woodpecker lips.

[1632] We get on these two deer we're trying to get, and he's not getting out of the tent.

[1633] And so Frank is not like that.

[1634] And he's like, I hear him go, sir, I'm going to stay in a tent this morning.

[1635] And I'm like, dude, you good.

[1636] Now, keep in mind, Frank got pulmonary edema, and that dumb shit hiked out with pulmonary edema.

[1637] He literally, his lungs filled up with liquid.

[1638] And that's an altitude sickness, right?

[1639] altitude sickness, and that fucker hiked out nine miles with pulmonary edema.

[1640] Jesus Christ.

[1641] When he got back, he'd cough, and it was like empty in a water bottle.

[1642] So he's a tough individual.

[1643] So I'm like, dude, this guy, I even texted Amy.

[1644] I'm like, hey, Frank's fucked up.

[1645] I might have to hit the beacon.

[1646] Like, I may have to get help.

[1647] So anyway, I go over.

[1648] I shoot this deer.

[1649] So it was just sushi?

[1650] I guess.

[1651] So where did you guys eat sushi in Denver the day before?

[1652] So I think what had happened, we had starved ourselves for 12 days, right?

[1653] Dehydration, and he must ate in the woods.

[1654] We came out, you know, I took, we all went out to dinner, and I think he ate all that white rice, and it just clung to his intestines like a woolly mammoth, because he ended up just having to take a big poop, right?

[1655] But right in the middle where, you know, your appendix is, he's like, it hurts right here.

[1656] And I've had gallbladder issues.

[1657] I got, I passed a kidney stone like six miles in.

[1658] So I was like His appendixes erupt He's going to die back here And so Let's show you how the You know The moxie that Frank has He drug his ass out of that tent And film me shooting that mule deer And he hobbled his ass over there After I shot it And it's a fucking mile and a half From where he's glass And flagging me in And he just sat by the deer I cut it up whatever And I'm like dude I'll get most of it You good And he's like yeah I'm okay I'm okay, and I'm like, I can tell you're not fucking okay.

[1659] Like, you're in pain, and he made it out, and then he took a giant poop and everything was okay, but it, uh, I thought he was going to, I thought he was going to have to get the beacon.

[1660] That's so bizarre that it was just from rice and poop.

[1661] Well, we're not doctors, but that's what I chalked it up to.

[1662] Yeah, maybe food poisoning.

[1663] Sure, it wasn't food poisoning?

[1664] He wasn't puking.

[1665] That was the only thing.

[1666] But again, I'm not a doctor, but every time I've had it, I puked.

[1667] So those are the worst experiences?

[1668] What about injuries?

[1669] You ever get, like, really hurt out there?

[1670] I'm trying to think the kidney stone.

[1671] That was a bad one.

[1672] You had to piss that out?

[1673] Oh, fuck.

[1674] That was horrible.

[1675] How big was it?

[1676] I didn't know.

[1677] I'll tell the quick version of it.

[1678] I think I was 10 days into a hunt and I shot a mule deer.

[1679] We dehydrated?

[1680] Fuck, yeah, I dehydrated.

[1681] And I peed blood.

[1682] And, of course, like an idiot.

[1683] And I'm like, ah, it's fine, whatever.

[1684] And I hiked the mule deer out, turn around.

[1685] I met a buddy, dropped it off and then hiked back in.

[1686] And then, like, that night or the night after, I was, it was pretty high elevation but anyway I went after this bull and something like knocked loose in my kit you know I didn't know what it was just all of a sudden I had this shooting pain and I looked at the dude on a green mile trying to pee right and I'm like what the fuck is going on like I literally I'm like I'm gonna pass out from shock what the hell is wrong with me did you think it was a kidney stone I didn't even I didn't know right I didn't it was so much pain in my back area that I knew it had something to do with my kidneys but every time I tried to pee, I literally would drop me to my knees.

[1687] And so I was like, okay, let's assess this.

[1688] And I'm trying to think through should I take next to no gear and try and hike out, take enough gear to stay the night, but then have the burden of the weight.

[1689] You know, what's going to be the best option?

[1690] Because I didn't have any service and I didn't have a, I didn't have anything back with me that I could get a hold of anyone.

[1691] And so I'm like, fuck it.

[1692] No guts, no glory.

[1693] I grabbed the basic essentials and hobbled my ass out.

[1694] And at one point, I did have a phone by them service.

[1695] I texted my buddy Tony and said, hey, what is the nearest hospital to this trailhead?

[1696] And I lost service.

[1697] And so all he knew was I'm fucked up.

[1698] Right.

[1699] So I get to the trailhead and I get in my Jeep and I had a giant Jeep and I'm doing like 90 down the road and I get pulled over.

[1700] Well, the cop was looking for me because my buddy had called and said, I don't know what's going on.

[1701] Well, the cop was kind of a dick, right?

[1702] I get out, and I'm like, hey, man, he wanted to call an ambulance.

[1703] And I'm like, look, dude, I just hiked out six miles.

[1704] I'm not paying $3 ,500 for a fucking ambulance ride.

[1705] I just hiked six miles out.

[1706] I can make it to the hospital.

[1707] And so he was a little bit of a dick, but he followed me into the hospital, and I passed it, I don't know, in the toilet.

[1708] Tink, tink, and it looked like a chick -a.

[1709] No, but it looked like a chick -a -pee.

[1710] Oh, like a chickpeat?

[1711] Yeah, a little spiky little bastard.

[1712] Oh, okay.

[1713] Yeah, it was horrible looking.

[1714] How big was it?

[1715] Not very big.

[1716] Big enough for your dick hole.

[1717] Holy moly, man. Going through that.

[1718] What was crazy is right after that, I was good to go.

[1719] I mean, once you passed it, I was fine.

[1720] I went by hike back in the next day.

[1721] A lot of fighters get those from dehydration from weight cuts.

[1722] I think Aldo, Jose Aldo, has gotten those before.

[1723] I think more than one fighter has gotten those weight cuts.

[1724] I think what they told.

[1725] Pull me, my buddy, mine's a doctor, when I was roided out, I was taking a lot of protein and different things, that there was a calcium buildup from that or something.

[1726] I don't know.

[1727] I'm not a doctor.

[1728] Some people get them apparently from drinking too many green smoothies.

[1729] It should be careful.

[1730] I believe that which one is Thor?

[1731] Chris Helmsworth, his brother.

[1732] His brother had to quit being a vegan.

[1733] and that's one of the reasons why, because he was passing these stones, and he had to wind up getting surgery.

[1734] Here it goes.

[1735] Australian actor Liam Hemsworth told men's health that he had to completely rethink his vegan diet after ongoing surgery for a kidney stone.

[1736] Some foods are high in substances called oxalates, which can increase the risk of kidney stones.

[1737] These include spinach, potatoes, nuts, and even chocolate.

[1738] There you go.

[1739] Yeah, I've heard of it from kale, too.

[1740] I ate a lot of kale.

[1741] I rethunk my raw kale smoothies.

[1742] I was drinking a lot of kale smoothies in the morning.

[1743] And then I found out about the dangers of oxalates.

[1744] And I was like, oh.

[1745] I thought it was doing healthy.

[1746] Yeah.

[1747] Well, whatever mine came from, it was an eye -opener because that shit hurt.

[1748] But I've been pretty lucky.

[1749] You know, as far as injuries and nothing, IT -Ban syndrome, issue, normal shit, right?

[1750] I mean, nothing too, too crazy.

[1751] No blown -out knees out there or anything?

[1752] Knees are great.

[1753] shoulders are great that's what would scare the fuck out of me blowing out a knee in the backcountry and you got to figure out a way to get in yeah you know I like knock on wood you know I uh I haven't had to I mean I've been in some hairy situation on cliffs where storms rolled in blacked out and just had to hunker down in like a cave right and just waded out but nothing nothing horrible um your kidney stone was bad but really like some of the things you'd think that would happen if I die back there it's probably not going to be from a bear I'm praying to fall off a cliff like that's the one thing I would guess what happened.

[1754] That's how Cam's buddy Roy died.

[1755] Yeah.

[1756] What's a sheep hunt?

[1757] Serious.

[1758] That one there is probably worse than any.

[1759] The chances of having to bury you is so slim, but lightning and cliffs are probably the worst ones.

[1760] Yeah, lightning is another fucking scary one, huh?

[1761] That's a normal experience out there.

[1762] There's lightning storms.

[1763] Yeah, and in that one area, the Songer to Christos is a mountain range, and it's like scientifically worse there because of the heat from the ground and the cold from above.

[1764] The lightning storm's there.

[1765] We go down there just to photograph.

[1766] What do you do if you're in a lightning storm?

[1767] Do you get near trees?

[1768] Because if you get near trees, what if the trees get hit?

[1769] I'm going to give you horrible advice.

[1770] I don't do shit.

[1771] I just get in my tent and doing it.

[1772] Really?

[1773] So when there's a lightning storm, you just lay in your tent and hope it doesn't hit you?

[1774] Well, I mean, the reality of it is as they blow over, you may be causing, and I'm not an expert at this.

[1775] It's just I have the, if it's my time, it's my time.

[1776] So I just get in and I listen to an audio book and trying to pretend it's not there.

[1777] And that is probably horrible advice, but the reality is my buddy, um, what audio book would you listen to when you're almost dying from a lightning storm?

[1778] The crow killer, Jeremiah Johnson.

[1779] Oh, damn, you're getting serious mountain man. Yeah, yeah, I'd listen.

[1780] That one helps me go to sleep.

[1781] That dude's, uh, boys is, um, what helps me go to sleep.

[1782] So, but my buddy, um, which I don't know if I can say his name because he's on an ODA team, him and his buddy, this fucking guys.

[1783] get hit with lightning in the spot where we killed a bull.

[1784] And he texts me, and he said something about this reminded me of, I think you got hit with an RPG or something.

[1785] And I'm like, well, dude, are you good?

[1786] Like, that's a hell of a buildup to a story with no finish, right?

[1787] He's got scars where the lightning came out of its, oh, no, that's where it entered.

[1788] And then it blew the front of his, or his buddy's shoe out.

[1789] What?

[1790] Fucking they hiked out.

[1791] Hit him in the back and blew his buddy's shoe off.

[1792] Because they hit him both at the same time.

[1793] And so I would guess they were probably more.

[1794] trained than I was, and whatever they did didn't work.

[1795] So any more, Frank and I just hunker down and I listen to an audiobook.

[1796] Remy Warren got hit with Lightning in high school, if I remember correctly.

[1797] And I think he lost a sense of smell.

[1798] No shit.

[1799] Yeah, something wacky like that.

[1800] Remember that movie with, what was it, that big, the big dude, actor, where the guy gets hit lightning, he's like six times.

[1801] And he's like, oh, you've been hit with Lightning six times?

[1802] He's like, no, 66 times.

[1803] You remember that shit, John Candy?

[1804] Yeah, yeah.

[1805] Get the Great Outdoor Well, there's a guy that has been hit, like, a record number of times.

[1806] There's one guy, see if you find that.

[1807] There's one dude for whatever reason.

[1808] They don't know, they don't understand it, but he's been hit by lightning multiple times.

[1809] It's not because he's looking for it.

[1810] Like, he's particularly attractive to lightning for some strange reason.

[1811] I think I'm particularly attracted to black bears.

[1812] Seven times.

[1813] Good God.

[1814] Yeah, he's a ranger.

[1815] Park ranger.

[1816] Yeah, come on, man. So Roy Cleveland Sullivan, he died in 1983, United States Park Ranger and Shenandoah National Park in Virginia.

[1817] Between 1942 and 1977, Sullivan was hit by lightning on seven different occasions and survived all of them.

[1818] I would go home and talk to my wife and see if she put some voodoo on.

[1819] That reminds me of that saying I have if it was raining pussy, you get hit the head with a dick.

[1820] That guy's bad luck.

[1821] That is horrible.

[1822] Seven times.

[1823] It's crazy.

[1824] That doesn't even make sense.

[1825] Yeah.

[1826] I just don't worry about it.

[1827] though anymore.

[1828] What did you say, Jamie?

[1829] This one says another guy.

[1830] Ten.

[1831] God.

[1832] Another guy's like, I'll show you, pussy.

[1833] Yeah, ten times.

[1834] Put a fucking metal hat on.

[1835] Yeah, it's just, I think, though, you get desensitized to different things, and lightning is definitely one where I just kind of hang out in the tent.

[1836] It cooks you from the inside out, like being in a microwave, he says.

[1837] Man 61 survives being struck by lightning ten times.

[1838] Melvin Roberts made headlines in 2011 for being hit six times in one year.

[1839] Wives said he's been struck another four times south carolina man suffered memory loss headaches speech problems and has nerve damage in his hands and leg like i don't i'm so confused i don't understand why he keeps hitting him let me see what that guy looks like no he looks like he looks like a guy's been hit by lightning 10 times yeah because usually it'll blow the end of your toes off really yeah yeah where it exists a single lightning strike is made up of several 100 million volts what the fuck man yeah we've been on in lightning strikes where they hit trees close by it just blows them up and to shrapnel it's pretty wild how does it not kill people yeah that's where it exited the toe oh Jesus Christ nerve damage and his leg and foot as a result of lightning strikes hmm that might change your says Roy Sullivan is the current world record holder and then he he was hit seven times the guy that we were talking about he died in 1983 by his own hand oh no that's not good yeah you got to wonder like what's left after you've been hit seven times like your shit must be scrambled i don't know man but those are the things that'll probably get you you know like talking about yeah bears is like the last thing i worry about lightning's a it's a that's a real problem what is there a way to get it to hit something else like if you're in your tent would it hit the tent and not you or would it just go right through the tent i think it'd go through the tent i saw it hit an old growth tree once and blow a 180 foot tall tree into pieces and i'm like oh that did not look appealing you know as a kid happened yeah and that's not uncommon either um when you get when you because you get if you have service you can see where it's going right like the the one that passed two years ago i knew frank was fucked because it was going by me literally 400 yards and i'm watching cloud to ground and i'm like texting frank i'm like dude buckle your shit up it's coming And it went right in front of me and over Frank.

[1840] And, you know, Frank's so funny, he literally called me. He's like, I'm okay, sir.

[1841] And I'm like, how'd it go?

[1842] He's like, that was not cool.

[1843] And he had video of it striking, you know, all around him.

[1844] But the thing like he said is, where's he going to go?

[1845] Because he's just running into a storm, right?

[1846] You're not going to outrun it.

[1847] What do you do you're supposed to go in your trees?

[1848] You're supposed to get into depression and hunker down is what you're supposed to.

[1849] Into a depression, like some sort of a valley.

[1850] What's it said, Jim?

[1851] I was reading through Roy Sullivan's Wikipedia since he got struck two other times.

[1852] Once when he was a kid, but it didn't hurt him, so he didn't claim it.

[1853] And then another time his wife got struck while he was helping her with the clothes, but he didn't get hurt that time either.

[1854] So I guess he didn't claim that time.

[1855] Is he a fucking alien?

[1856] Like, why would one guy get hit so many times?

[1857] I'm trying to read why it says, but, like, there's no reasoning why or anything like that.

[1858] That's so weird.

[1859] Like, what about a person's biological makeup would be so different that lightning would be attracted to them?

[1860] I don't know.

[1861] He's got some serious static electricity.

[1862] The thing is, like, with, you know, the more you're out there, epic shit happens.

[1863] Well, I guess you might not consider it epic, but, I mean, the more...

[1864] He's a park ranger.

[1865] Right, that's what I mean.

[1866] Like, you're out there, and then, you know, you think about how much time I'm out there.

[1867] Crazy shit's going to happen if you're in the woods a lot.

[1868] I mean, there's no...

[1869] Well, the Wolverine.

[1870] It's a one and a billion chance for that to happen.

[1871] I mean, that's literally, but the more you're out there, shit's going to happen.

[1872] Well, Jordan's story about the Wolverine stealing his moose, fat was hilarious I know he had to one up me I was giving him shit about that right like one of the only guys in history to shoot him with a recurb and he basically killed one of the hatchet I'm like you son of a bitch but he said he couldn't eat it though so it was disgusting yeah it's um I had a lot of people well you asked me too I had a lot of people ask me and I was like yeah I'm not eating that fucker it's nasty um but they you know talking like with that with um you know coyotes and stuff I think Rinella ate a coyote yeah him and remi Warren they cooked to coyote data it didn't seem that bad seemed to edel It's not for me. If you're starving.

[1873] You're starving?

[1874] Yeah, oh, yeah.

[1875] I've eaten marmot on purpose.

[1876] Marmot tastes good.

[1877] You don't want to eat the old ones are not so good.

[1878] A marmot's like a rodent, right?

[1879] Yeah, yeah, those taste pretty good.

[1880] We call it Rocky Mountain Fish and Chips.

[1881] We'd catch cut through and brook trout and eat marmot.

[1882] They're really that good?

[1883] No, they're not that good.

[1884] I've had beaver.

[1885] Renella cooked up beaver.

[1886] Beaver tail is pretty good.

[1887] It wasn't the tail.

[1888] It was the hind quarters.

[1889] Oh, no kidding.

[1890] Yeah, he cooked it.

[1891] It was like a beef stew.

[1892] He brazed it and then slow cooked it In a crock pot It was actually very good Like we were stunned It was quite delicious Yeah I've had beaver but to tail more than anything Tail's weird right Yeah it's fat Which I was gonna say it's very fatty is what it is Yeah it's like a fat sandwich Yeah I mean I get the idea of You know they eat what you kill or whatever But I also get the idea that Wolverines Eat the shit out of They'll clear a basin of a mountain goats and sheep out in a minute Did I did you hear the whole story that Fucker bit the arrow in half on the third arrow and charged me after biting it in half.

[1893] Jesus Christ.

[1894] Yeah, it was pretty crazy.

[1895] It was cool.

[1896] It's a wild little animal, man. I mean, they're in the badger family, and that, you know, honey badger don't give a fuck is pretty famous.

[1897] Oh, you know how many memes?

[1898] I got a honey badger don't give a shit?

[1899] Oh, fuck, it was crazy.

[1900] It's a wild little animal, too.

[1901] Just the way it looks.

[1902] It doesn't even look like a real thing.

[1903] Yeah.

[1904] Well, it was crazy because they were fighting when we saw them.

[1905] And so we stalked down in on them.

[1906] I was like, you know, figured we were 30 yards away, and all of a sudden we were bra -blah -blah.

[1907] And I was like, Jesus Christ, they were like 14 yards away.

[1908] Yeah, I've seen them chase off wolves from kills.

[1909] It's crazy.

[1910] I've seen them in video, at least.

[1911] It's a wild little animal.

[1912] It's just so funny how something so small can be so ferocious.

[1913] Look at that fucker.

[1914] Look at that face.

[1915] Yeah, I saw it like at six yards on my third era.

[1916] That's a honey badger.

[1917] Yeah.

[1918] Wolverine's real similar.

[1919] Yeah.

[1920] But just any kind of badger.

[1921] So it's such a strange animal.

[1922] They are.

[1923] And I guess there's a lot of them up in that mountain range.

[1924] Because I know they encourage you to, you know, whatever, shoot them because they're hard on the ungulates.

[1925] Do they encourage you to?

[1926] They encourage you to take them out because they kill the...

[1927] Look at that one with his mouth open in the middle.

[1928] Low down.

[1929] Yeah, look at that.

[1930] Fucking A, man. Yeah.

[1931] Their faces.

[1932] Look at his fucking face.

[1933] That doesn't even look like a real face.

[1934] Dude, I should send you mine.

[1935] You can put it in here.

[1936] Every time you look at it, scare the shit out of you.

[1937] I kept the whole hide.

[1938] I just, you know, when I, when we were in there, it was like...

[1939] It sounded to me. I'll put it right there next to that chimp, that fake, this thing.

[1940] This is a Shane Against the Machine on Instagram made me this.

[1941] Oh, no shit, that's badass.

[1942] It's a chimp skull that he made out of Zilgin thimbles.

[1943] It looks like it says Zilgin on the back of it.

[1944] It reminds me in that movie Congo.

[1945] Oh, right, yeah, yeah.

[1946] Bad gorilla.

[1947] Remember that to me?

[1948] Do you know why they, you know what's interesting about that?

[1949] That's a Michael Crichton book, right?

[1950] Isn't it?

[1951] Michael Crichton, yep.

[1952] What's interesting about that is I thought he was just making that up, but there is a giant chimp in the Congo.

[1953] There's a giant, they call it the Bondo ape.

[1954] It's huge.

[1955] It's like six feet tall.

[1956] They've caught him on camera traps.

[1957] There's a, I think he's from Sweden or Switzerland, I forget, a wildlife photographer named Carl Amman, and he was obsessed with these things.

[1958] He saw one once, I believe, and then he set up all these camera traps.

[1959] He spent years in there trying to document this thing because there's an enormous chimpanzee.

[1960] like a subspecies of chimpanzee that lives in the Congo in this place called Bealee.

[1961] And you got photos of it?

[1962] Yeah, they have photos.

[1963] They have camera traps.

[1964] These two guys who lived there shot one near an airfield landing strip.

[1965] It's huge.

[1966] It's like a six -foot -tall chimp.

[1967] The equivalent of seeing Bigfoot, right?

[1968] Yeah.

[1969] If I ever saw it, I'd certainly want to go find it more.

[1970] I don't necessarily think Bigfoot exists.

[1971] But if I saw one, I'd certainly want to go find it.

[1972] This one's really trippy because it sleeps on the ground like a gorilla.

[1973] They nest on the ground And they caught one eating a leopard They don't know if it killed the leopard Or if it was just eating a leopard that was already dead But you gotta imagine how strong a chimp is Now imagine how strong a 200 I mean not 200 six Six foot tall probably more than 200 Probably three or 400 pound chimp With the densest muscle mass known the man That stays the fuck out of the jungle The crazy thing is they have camera trap photos Of one walking upright Oh no kidding Yeah walk in see if you find that The guy's, Carl with a K. Amman, he's this wildlife photographer.

[1974] They got obsessed with this animal.

[1975] Because a lot of people were claiming bullshit for the longest time on this.

[1976] There's photos of one that someone had shot from the 1920s, and they were trying to figure out if it was a hybrid, if it was a gorilla chimp hybrid, if that's possible.

[1977] See, that's the one that's the camera trap on the far left.

[1978] So you see it walking.

[1979] That fucker was walking on its hind legs.

[1980] It's huge.

[1981] And now go back to where you were.

[1982] See that one right beside.

[1983] sided on the left that's the dead one up up top up top yeah right there that's the one that they shot at a uh a landing strip they shot near an airport look at the size of his hog good lord good lord look at the size of that fucker you don't know how big the the men are behind it but you know even if they're five seven that's a that's a six foot enormous chimpanzee and then the one in the middle the black and white one jamie over that yeah that one that is the original photo from really really early on i think that was the early 1900s people were trying to figure out what the fuck that was it was like it's really big for a chimp because these guys are trying to hold it up and you know its legs are still dragging on the ground so if it was standing up on its hind legs it probably be as tall as them good lord yeah crazy so it is an actual chimp there's another one too that one right next to it jamie above right above where your cursor is down into the right that one i mean this is a fucking enormous animal man oh yeah that's like the the big foot of the jungle i mean imagine a 400 pound chimp six foot tall 400 pound chip like what the fuck so this guy carl amon a m a and n has been uh photographing these things for years and set up these camera traps they have two different types of chimps they call them tree beaters and lion killers the tree beaters are the ones look at that one in the middle it's standing up Fuck you.

[1984] Look at that thing.

[1985] God damn, that's crazy.

[1986] If you could watch what a normal chimp does physically, that's probably going to be pretty impressive what that thing can do.

[1987] Yeah, I mean, they throw themselves through the air with their arms.

[1988] Literally just throw themselves and catch a tree.

[1989] That's wild.

[1990] They hang from it.

[1991] So that's why that Congo movie was so weird.

[1992] Like, it's kind of sort of loosely based on an actual real chimp.

[1993] Yeah.

[1994] And they get real gray looking, too, which is also true, Just like his book.

[1995] Yeah, I was going to say in the movie, they had the gray.

[1996] Yeah.

[1997] Well, those get real gray when they get big, sort of like gorillas.

[1998] They also have a crest on their head like gorillas.

[1999] See, this chimp, this fake chimp skull that he made, this is a normal chimp skull.

[2000] But the ones that they found, that's why they got so confused, these Bondo apes, they actually have a crest.

[2001] Like they have this big, thick partition in the top of their head and the skull.

[2002] That usually, like, with bears, that's an age, right?

[2003] When they get that butt crack in their foreheads, basically.

[2004] That big, thick muscles that they can crush moose bones with.

[2005] Yeah, it's crazy.

[2006] It is pretty wild watching what some of the, like I got hit by a black bear once running, just clipped me. He was running scared, but he hit me and I was like, oh, that was definitely a reality check of where I'm at.

[2007] You were running, like, jogging?

[2008] Oh, fuck, no, I was in the trail, and he ran by me and clipped me. Oh.

[2009] And it wasn't like this crazy.

[2010] I mean, he just ran you over accidentally?

[2011] Fuck, man. He hit me, and that was a reality check of where I stand out in the food chain.

[2012] I thought I got hit by a fucking 600 -pound linebacker.

[2013] I mean, it blew me back, and he clipped me on the side, but it happened so fast, right?

[2014] And literally it took me a second to like, Jesus Christ, when he hit me. He was running scared, right?

[2015] It was just a happenstance thing.

[2016] But South got attacked by one when he was young.

[2017] South Cogs?

[2018] Yeah, when he was young.

[2019] But it really shows you, like, well, I have a Matrix Target.

[2020] You like those.

[2021] That fucking bear at my house pushed the center octagon out.

[2022] He doesn't have a postable thumbs He didn't release the ratchet straps And he was managed to push the middle portion out Why?

[2023] Probably had peanut butter on my hand And I was pulling arrows Oh, and you smelled it Yeah, and he was able to push that center octagon out And that was a 180 -pound little black bear So imagine what a, you know, 500 -pound black bear could do to you Well, when you see him run up trees Just use their claws and just run up the tree And full clip, like you would run on the ground But faster, and they go up a tree that way Oh, yeah We're so weak I uh yeah it is it's pretty crazy that that one I got that one that charged me um two years ago guys man that thing was like I hit it two times coming at me here and here and uh I was shit my knickers right I mean the first time I hit it I was like oh like running backwards I wasn't I was pooping my pants right and then uh it took off and it started stomping the ground so I huffed at it again and came it again and I was not ready the second go around either and I hit it here and then it ran off broadside and I anyway I ended up killing it but it was hilarious because my buddy was like hey did you get a shot because he couldn't see in the timber and I'm like dude I'm I'm out of arrows and he's like what happened and I don't think he believed me and we got up there I'm like dude it's a big bear and uh I said did you hear it and he said I could hear it stomping and I was like did you hear it fucking try to eat me and he was like did it really I'm like no it didn't try to eat me I was like but Jesus and he you know looked and it was reacting you know reenacting telling him what happened it was a trip man but those I was wearing black I still when I stopped it thought that you were a bear?

[2024] So when that snow melts, the, you know, King of the Apes, right?

[2025] The biggest bears guard the luscious grass, right?

[2026] And so when I stalked in, I actually pulled my camel off and I put on black fleece because it was in a field.

[2027] And I was on my hands and knees, and he'd feed, and I'd get closer, and he'd feed.

[2028] And I got to 35 yards, and he wheeled out right when I shot.

[2029] And he went into the timber, and I was like, God damn it.

[2030] And then I could hear him in there popping his teeth.

[2031] And I'm like, oh, he wants some.

[2032] So I load an arrow and just dove into the timber and I started huffing at him.

[2033] And that's a dominance thing.

[2034] You did that to get him riled up?

[2035] Why would you do that?

[2036] Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time, right?

[2037] You were just caught up in the moment?

[2038] Well, if I could be honest, but I've never had one to come at me that fast.

[2039] Usually they'll just stand up there and they'll stomp the ground.

[2040] So you thought you were going to bluff him and then he would be there for a shot.

[2041] Yeah, and it didn't quite turn out like I had planned it.

[2042] And he came straight at me. And so I started like, oh, that's a fucking bad idea.

[2043] And I started running backwards and I shot.

[2044] But it was, I don't know, from here the TV.

[2045] And I hit it.

[2046] Well, I thought, okay, that should slow him down.

[2047] I'll get in that.

[2048] Well, fuck, it just pissed him off.

[2049] So he ran out there at 20 yards and started stomping the ground.

[2050] So at this point in time, I was a bit caught in the moment.

[2051] And I'm not trying to make this sound any more than me being a dumb fuck.

[2052] So I started huffing at it again.

[2053] And he came straight at me one more time.

[2054] And I hit him on the other side.

[2055] Well, what was funny is.

[2056] is Gary, you know, it's like, hey, did you get a shot?

[2057] And I was like, yeah, dude, you would not believe this.

[2058] And you could tell he was like, yeah, whatever, we get in there.

[2059] And this thing's got one arrow sticking out of here, one here, and one through the lungs.

[2060] And it was, I don't know, fucking crazy.

[2061] It's seven foot four.

[2062] It's a weird animal to eat, too.

[2063] You know, the rivets taught me how delicious they can be.

[2064] They're good.

[2065] John and Jen Rivet really know how to cook them, especially on a Trager.

[2066] They'll slow cook a ham.

[2067] It's unbelievable.

[2068] It's so good.

[2069] I get a kick out of the hate mail I get about predators, right?

[2070] Because we eat them.

[2071] Like mountain lions, unbelievable.

[2072] It's not as good as access deer, but it's pretty damn good.

[2073] And it's like just because it's weird that you get less hate mail from a deer than you do something that can eat.

[2074] I know, because it seems like if you're killing an animal like a mountain line, you're doing it because you want to be a badass.

[2075] Yeah.

[2076] That's what it is.

[2077] But if you kill an animal like a deer, like that's normal.

[2078] People are accustomed to people killing deer for food.

[2079] Well, I had people like, oh, those are endangered.

[2080] because I kill a giant mountain lion and I've killed a bunch of bears like they're endangered and it's like no there's actually kind of a problem right because California they're not endangered at all you hear that talk all the time at Tahoe Ranch they have one particular camera trap where they caught 16 different mountain lions on a pond yeah they're a problem and they'll eat you know they'll eat two and a half deer a week pretty easily and so a mountain lion but you think like people think you can't eat and there's some predators you probably shouldn't eat But again, in the big picture, which I do not understand how people think, they eat everything else.

[2081] And so to be truly not the hashtag conservation, but if you're worried about other animals, you have to keep everything in relative check.

[2082] Yeah, there's a weird thing that people have, though, when it comes to predators.

[2083] Like, there was a woman who ran an alpaca farm in Malibu, and she had this one particular mountain line that had found her farm irresistible and slaughtered a bum.

[2084] bunch of them and killed a couple of goats too and she got a depredation permit to kill this thing and the amount of death threats that she got when they found out that she was going to kill this mountain line or was told that she got a permit where she could hire someone to take this mountain lion out and so she eventually wound up not doing it just out of fear she was just scared but meanwhile they don't have any problem with this thing really thrill killing it was just thrill.

[2085] It can't help itself.

[2086] Once it found out that it could get into that pen where the alpacas were, it just was slaughtering them.

[2087] Yeah, the, the, the U .S., well, not just us here, it's kind of weird.

[2088] So put things in a perspective.

[2089] Things don't think about this.

[2090] If you shoot an animal and you don't pack it all out, you get a ticket for wanton waste, right?

[2091] And honestly, I mean, you get - What do they do about, like, rib meat?

[2092] Do they call them on rib meat as well?

[2093] Every state's different.

[2094] So in Colorado, you have to take four quarters in neck meat.

[2095] Some place you don't have to take rib -meat.

[2096] places you do you think about it how much food do you think was wasted in California yesterday beef how much was thrown away the people didn't finish their meals their steak was cooked medium rare the animal was alive once and they throw it away yeah it's weird how people look at that that is weird but it's it's like the thing of you going out and doing it yourself and they're what I think they're really worried about someone shooting a deer and just taking the antlers which is no no I get that portion of it I don't get the other portion like I get like well I Dude, I eat 500 pounds of meat a year, right?

[2097] It's a big deal for me. What's crazy to me is this some dude that just let his kid throw his entire steak away because it didn't taste a good is going to give me crap for shooting a deer that I'm going to eat the whole thing.

[2098] Wow, that's human though.

[2099] You know, humans are, we're real complicated animals.

[2100] So we're real bizarre and what we can justify and not justify, you know, and that's one of the things you're seeing, you know, if someone's walking around without a mask, you know, on the street, people will yell at them and tell them, you're putting me in danger.

[2101] But you will see a massive protest, and it gets nothing but positive responses from the news and the media.

[2102] Like, this is amazing.

[2103] People are unifying.

[2104] It is amazing.

[2105] But it's also amazing that two weeks later, there's a giant spike in COVID, and no one wants to.

[2106] Something I've read, though, that there is a big spike in COVID, but there's not a corresponding death spike.

[2107] Yeah.

[2108] I read the same thing.

[2109] Yeah.

[2110] See, that's true.

[2111] That's true because they said that COVID is spiking.

[2112] but deaths aren't, which is really interesting because that must mean that they're better at treating it or maybe people have a better understanding of how to survive it or maybe the people that are getting it are younger because a lot of them are getting it specifically from the protests, which they're kind of denying.

[2113] It seems hilarious.

[2114] Which is weird.

[2115] Yeah, the whole thing, I'm trying not to read it because they just get depressed.

[2116] People on top of each other.

[2117] I'm 100 % support of the protests, 100%.

[2118] But people on top of each other, you tell them if they're sick, they're not going to give it.

[2119] it to each other, that seems highly unlikely.

[2120] Yeah, a lot of...

[2121] There's just a lot of contradicting views of that.

[2122] Like, you can't protest certain things, but you can protest other things.

[2123] And then when COVID first kicked off, six feet, wear a mask, whatever.

[2124] And then I see these things where, you know, there's a six -foot thing, but we do, we don't mind if you protest.

[2125] Exactly.

[2126] Everything was strange to me. Well, there's a big gay pride protest or celebration this weekend in Chicago.

[2127] Same thing.

[2128] Everybody on top of everybody.

[2129] And everybody's like, this is wonderful.

[2130] Okay.

[2131] But, you know, in two weeks, when the restaurant's in the bar shut down again, we're going to question our decisions.

[2132] Yeah, it's, you ever watch, like, Zombie Land?

[2133] That movie's funny.

[2134] Fatty's our first to go.

[2135] I bring that up all the time.

[2136] Think about how bad would it be to rewind 80 years, like what would happen, like how soft we are as a culture now?

[2137] It's pretty amazing.

[2138] And then, like, you know, you think about some of the different plagues, you know, I read and listen, well, I don't read shit.

[2139] I listen to a lot of audiobooks.

[2140] Me too.

[2141] I like to say I read, though.

[2142] Sounds better.

[2143] It does for me, too.

[2144] But the reality is I don't read shit.

[2145] I look at pictures.

[2146] But I love it.

[2147] I read magazines.

[2148] Even that.

[2149] I read articles.

[2150] I read articles, especially on my phone.

[2151] I'll pull them up.

[2152] Yeah.

[2153] But I rarely read books.

[2154] I fall asleep when I read them, which I probably should read more.

[2155] But I, you know, when I look at all of the different, everything, everything, that's going on nowadays, like if there was any major, actual real major crisis, like how fucked we would be as a society is pretty amazing.

[2156] Well, it's like we were talking about our dietary choices, the fact that 70 % of Americans are overweight.

[2157] That's so crazy.

[2158] Yeah.

[2159] That's so, this is such a weird time in terms of how easy life is without, you know, pre -COVID and that people had gotten accustomed to this soft way of living.

[2160] Yeah.

[2161] So when someone does something like what you do and what you prefer to do, that's what makes it so extraordinary.

[2162] Someone uses that ridiculous.

[2163] Farmers walk.

[2164] Farmers carry machine.

[2165] Here it is.

[2166] As U .S. coronavirus cases spike, country will be seeing more deaths, Dr. Fauci says.

[2167] That guy.

[2168] They will be going up is what it says.

[2169] I understand that Dr. Fauci is a medical expert and a good man, but I am annoyed at him for what he said about the masks, because he literally said that we told people not to wear masks so that they wouldn't buy them so that health care experts can get them.

[2170] You can't do that.

[2171] You can't do that because then we know you're lying at one point in time.

[2172] You can't lie.

[2173] You can say, please don't buy masks because health care workers need them.

[2174] Instead, get a bandana.

[2175] Instead, take an old t -shirt converted into a bandana.

[2176] Please say that.

[2177] Please in the future, don't lie to us.

[2178] Because when you lie, then we think, you're lying no matter what you say exactly especially when it's about something like that like i understand they were probably compelled him to do that but man that confuses the fuck out of everybody because there's this video that uh you know him talking about you don't have to wear a mask and it's like then a couple weeks later they're like actually you you have to it's mandatory yeah the whole covid thing is a different it's different scary well and i think you sent me a text or something i thought man this is blown out of proportion and I think you said definitely for people like like with me yeah one of the you know one of a I if everybody was like you it would be a bad cold yeah I hope you don't get it but if you do take a lot of vitamin C drink a lot of liquids get a lot of rest but the problem is you know obese people diabetics older folks and that's what I don't want to beat a dead horse to death but I really really would like you know not sound too what's the word liberal tree huggerish Like, I really wish bottled water as we're drinking it.

[2179] I'd like to see more options for filling up an algae.

[2180] I would like to see more options for people for health.

[2181] Like, God forbid, we spend all this money on stuff.

[2182] Like, it wouldn't be horrible for the government to spend money and get some free dietitians out.

[2183] I mean, I don't have a plan for this.

[2184] But knowing as a converted fat kid, like, fuck, I wish I had some help when I was younger.

[2185] Do you remember when Trump had that lady that was telling everybody not to touch their face?

[2186] and then she licked her finger and then turned the page.

[2187] Oh, my God.

[2188] Yeah, exactly.

[2189] But that's when, you know, when we're talking about health experts and things along those lines, that's the kind of shit that you see sometimes.

[2190] And it just makes you go, God, people are so weird.

[2191] Just human beings are so weird.

[2192] What we concentrate on and what's important to us.

[2193] So strange.

[2194] Well, you're from New York, Rachel?

[2195] I was born in New Jersey, but most of my, from 13 on, I grew up in Boston.

[2196] Not to turn to reverse the rolls here, but what made you get into hunting?

[2197] Well, I see, I had seen a bunch of those PETA videos, and I was like, I'm going to do one or two things.

[2198] Either I'm going to become a vegetarian, or I'm going to become a hunter.

[2199] And then Rinella took me hunting on a show, and I dropped a mule deer.

[2200] The moment the deer dropped, I was like, okay, I'm doing this from now on.

[2201] And then the moment we ate it by a campfire, I'm like, this is the best meal I probably ever have in my life.

[2202] and it just made me realize like we cooked it we left some of it in it we hung it up in a tree because it was pretty late when we shot it we took the organs and then we fried up some liver and onions and we fried up some heart and um by the by the campfire and i remember thinking while i was eating that like this is the most satisfying meal i've ever had in my life this is how i'm going to live from now on so take that and multiply it by a hundred that's how i feel with a recurve i don't know how else to explain it i mean it i get it it's just i mean something about watching that arrow fly through the air after all that hard work.

[2203] Now, you may want to snap that fucker in half several times on the way to finally hitting an animal, but being a guy, I'm driven, I'm goal -oriented, you know, I really like the challenge.

[2204] I like to practice.

[2205] I like all that.

[2206] I get it.

[2207] I totally get it.

[2208] I would imagine that the connection is so much more intense than even with a compound bow because you're dealing with all the cams and the engineering and all that jobs.

[2209] The noise, right, getting closer, like the different things you have to do.

[2210] It is hard for me to explain to, you know, to, I have a little bit different perspective because I've come from that, the compound side, being able to, you know, I shot my caribou at 127 yards.

[2211] I've gotten bashed for that, right?

[2212] And I'm like, hey.

[2213] That's a crazy shot.

[2214] But if you're trying to shoot a caribou, like, a lot of times you can't get very close.

[2215] Yeah, we just, we couldn't get close.

[2216] But I, you know, without me getting bashed too much about shooting long distance, now I really, I mean, getting sub 10 yards from an animal is pretty freaking cool.

[2217] I can imagine it is and you know when people thinking about trying it out might give it a try right when one thing good you can do with your kids do you ever get to a point where you're like I'm going to make my own arrowheads fuck no not yet I'm going to cut my own sticks and whittle my own arrows like I I have really full -on Comanchee I've had a lot of people message me about that and and Amy right now I can tell you that I like I am very accurate with that Well, we just shut that tournament with, you know, Luke and the group and the compound trad.

[2218] Luke was, like, so happy because at the end, he asked a bunch of compound guys what their scores were so he could give them shit because mine was higher because everybody was giving him shit about how do you let Aaron beat you with a stick bow?

[2219] And he's like, you know, screw you guys.

[2220] You come do it because I've taken a bunch of money from them.

[2221] I like that accuracy.

[2222] Even though it's not where I was with a compound, I don't know that I'll never build my own bow.

[2223] but I would say the chances are highly unlikely.

[2224] I'm pretty happy where I'm out right now.

[2225] Building a bow by yourself, you mean cutting a wood and actually constructing a bow out of the wood?

[2226] Yeah, and probably the best guy that Clay Hayes is a real traditional dude.

[2227] So not even a recurve?

[2228] He's using like a regular long bow.

[2229] Cut it out of his front yard.

[2230] Jesus.

[2231] What kind of wood would you use for that?

[2232] Well, they have bowdart trees, which is, actually, I don't know what the real name, Osage maybe is what a bowdard.

[2233] trees.

[2234] Anyway, I'm not an expert at this shit and I don't plan on being.

[2235] I mean, I got aluminum riser right now.

[2236] So what am I talking about?

[2237] But the thing is, it seems crazy.

[2238] Well, when you're using a traditional bow, but it's made out of aluminum, like, I know, right.

[2239] I was just going to say I get hate mail all the time for it.

[2240] Do you really?

[2241] You always say I get hate mail all the time for you.

[2242] And I always say, why are you reading that shit?

[2243] You're right.

[2244] And I will say you have been a good influence because I, probably in the last five years, I have really gotten to a point where it takes a lot for me to get any engagement or any rise out of it, I just read them and laugh because I'm like, yeah, well, whatever, that's your opinion.

[2245] But the problem is with me, not problem, I answer so many tech questions.

[2246] I try to be super involved with our customers as well as guys that need help.

[2247] So you have to read some emails and some of them I just laugh at.

[2248] But I will say like that stupid Tradvane I came up with, it's not stupid.

[2249] I thought that would be good for the community.

[2250] Fuck, no. Like, I got so much.

[2251] I don't know what you're talking about.

[2252] It's just a vein you can shoot out of a stiff bow.

[2253] You mean the feathers for people.

[2254] No, the feathers for the arrows.

[2255] So feathers are for generally traditional archers shoot feathers.

[2256] And they do that because it has to contact the riser and it flattens out easier.

[2257] Flattens out.

[2258] So it's more accurate.

[2259] Yes, exactly.

[2260] Because you don't get to bounce off the shell.

[2261] Right.

[2262] Like you would with a plastic vein like you do with a compound bow.

[2263] It hits the shelf and back.

[2264] You get contact bounces off.

[2265] So I had that goat hunt.

[2266] I got a hold of the guys at A .A .E. And I was like, hey, let's get this.

[2267] I don't care if you sell them.

[2268] I just want them.

[2269] Well, I thought that would have been, this is how weird the traditional archery community is for me. I thought that would be a positive for guys that do backpack hunts.

[2270] And it was for a lot of guys.

[2271] I made the mistake of reading a few online traditional archery forms about myself.

[2272] And that was a bad idea because I was like the devil because those veins to come in.

[2273] They want them to be feathers.

[2274] Yeah, I'm like the Antichrist or something.

[2275] I don't know.

[2276] They want it to be feathers because it's traditional?

[2277] It's traditional.

[2278] And even though the wood is made from a C &C machine, their riser, and their limbs have carbon in them.

[2279] No, people are weird.

[2280] People are weird with when, especially when people get into tradition, the traditional things, they get very strange.

[2281] Yeah, and I don't, man, like with me, I don't care if you hunting pink underwear and use a whatever the hell, Dave and Glyas, whatever, the bows.

[2282] You do whatever that makes you happy.

[2283] I just want people to get outdoors.

[2284] and get off the couch.

[2285] But, you know, everybody has different opinions and perspectives and whatever else.

[2286] But for me, that was just a tool that increased my opportunity while I was out there.

[2287] But it was definitely frowned upon by some.

[2288] Yeah.

[2289] So, fuck them.

[2290] Yeah.

[2291] Don't you think that this would be a really good time for some sort of hunting education, like a program that people can enter where they could be taught, like adult onset hunting, like people who are adults, learn how to do it.

[2292] Someone take you out.

[2293] I mean, I know there's a few people that do similar things out there.

[2294] But, man, it would be real nice, especially when, you know, when COVID happened and people realize, like, hey, this food supply chain is a little sketchy.

[2295] Like, we don't really have any toilet paper here.

[2296] And, you know, I went, my buddy went to the grocery store.

[2297] He said there was one package of ground meat.

[2298] That was all that was there.

[2299] Yeah.

[2300] And I was like, yeah, man, that could go sideways.

[2301] It was pretty crazy.

[2302] Some of my neighbors that were not keen on me, taking my own animals.

[2303] all the food I had in the deep freezer that all of a sudden wanted to come they were not keen on it like did they tell you they weren't keen on it yeah you could see they're pretty down on it you know say something to you uh you know other than like yeah I'm not into hunting like that um kind of underlying you know go fuck yourself you shot an animal right and but they ate meat you know so whatever however you want to look at that and then when the weirdest COVID hit because I do I eat four or five hundred pounds a year pretty easy of meat um maybe more than that plus you know I give my daughter and whatever.

[2304] Anyway, I, some of them had come over and were like, hey, can we try some of that?

[2305] I'm like, yeah, I don't, you know, I'm always going to encourage people to try it.

[2306] And then now it's obviously worked out because they're addicted to it.

[2307] They love it.

[2308] Once you taste.

[2309] Yeah, it's so good for you, too.

[2310] It just feels better.

[2311] When you eat it, you like, you eat a real nice elk steak.

[2312] Like, you get like energy.

[2313] It's weird.

[2314] It's hard to describe to people.

[2315] It is.

[2316] And I mean, you also have, like for me, the fact that I, you know, the way I, well, the way I got.

[2317] it, it just adds to the whole experience, which is hard to explain.

[2318] But I think that as a whole, like a land navigation, you know, how to break down an animal, you know, animal behavior, yeah, that'd be a hell of a class that I think wouldn't be a horrible time.

[2319] Yeah, I think it would be great for people.

[2320] I mean, I wouldn't say do it with archery.

[2321] I would say do it with a rifle, you know, especially people that don't have any experience in it.

[2322] But I think there would be incredibly rewarding.

[2323] It's not something that everybody can do.

[2324] Well, people always say that when you talk about hunting as being a method of acquiring and your meat like hey we don't have to factory farm hunting is still a possibility people go well you know you can't feed everyone with hunting and they're right you really can't but guess what everyone's not going to do it it's like everything else it's like you know you the whole world can't go to jiu jitsu class it would be too packed yeah that's good because most people are not going to do it anyway it's too hard it's the same thing with lifting weights the same thing with yoga it's the same thing with anything that's difficult difficult things do not attract people They attract some people.

[2325] They attract people that are interested in challenges.

[2326] Yeah.

[2327] And I would say the only thing if you did that, you probably want the shooting of the weapon to be the last portion.

[2328] Because a lot of people would want to just do that and bounce.

[2329] You know, you'd have to earn your way to that.

[2330] You'd have to have a curriculum, right?

[2331] Oh, yeah.

[2332] Well, and I talk about that easy button that people hit all the time.

[2333] One of the things I got most thankful for is I came up at the time with no range finder.

[2334] I had to learn to range, right?

[2335] How did you range with no range finder?

[2336] Did you learn how to like, like, recognize actual distance of things by thinking of it in terms of, like, body sizes?

[2337] Like, what did you?

[2338] First, it was a tape.

[2339] We'd measure.

[2340] And, you know what I mean?

[2341] You'd roll it out.

[2342] And we would have different courses or whatever.

[2343] And when I say we didn't have range finders, right when I started, there was like a Bushnell 500.

[2344] The thing was the size of this freaking notebook.

[2345] It was giant.

[2346] It was a mono, an ocular.

[2347] And that was like the first one.

[2348] And then they had some other ones that they were probably available to people that had a lot of money.

[2349] But you would be pacing it out.

[2350] My step is a yard.

[2351] And so I measured out or we were at a range and I'd make sure how far everything was, you know, I would pace it out.

[2352] So I would guess the yardage and I would pace it.

[2353] Guess the yardage and I would pace it.

[2354] I've heard of archery competitions where they don't let you use a range finder.

[2355] So here's the thing with that.

[2356] And so we talked about Levi before.

[2357] You know, Levi Morgan has shot higher score.

[2358] at times on unknown 3D courses where the known 3D course had a shot a lower score and those guys had range finders that's how good that dude is so when you say unknown you mean 3D courses where you can't use a range finder so you're shooting at targets and you have to gues to me yep and he guesses the yardage and there's another class shoots from the same stakes and they get range finders Levi has beaten them with no range finder that's how fucking good that guy is so when people talk about, because you get guys like, I would say, me and Cam, not a tournament guy.

[2359] Cam's shooting 160 -yard shots, great shot, or even Dudley.

[2360] Dudley, amazing shot.

[2361] But then you look at a Levi Morgan, if you dig into him, 13 ASA World Championships in a row that that guy won.

[2362] That's pretty crazy.

[2363] And he's still shooting today, and then you think he's hitting fucking quarters, not knowing the distance out of 50 yards.

[2364] It really is crazy that someone could win something that competitive 13 years in a row.

[2365] I mean, it's hard to believe.

[2366] Well, I mean, about the time, like, my wife is making my head too big, I'll pull up YouTube and have her watch an ASA with, like, Gillingham and Levi or Dan McCarthy, and I'm like, these guys are good, honey.

[2367] I'm just okay.

[2368] Like, these guys are fucking unbelievable.

[2369] Well, it's an obsession, right?

[2370] Archery is a weird zen obsession.

[2371] Like, the feeling, I try to explain to people, like, if I never hunted again for the rest of my life, if I never even ate meat for the rest of my life.

[2372] I would definitely shoot bows and arrows or definitely practice archery because there's something that happens when you concentrate on that target and the shot process and the shot breaks and then arrow sinks right into where you're looking at.

[2373] It's amazing.

[2374] It's a beautiful feeling.

[2375] That's extremely rewarding.

[2376] I don't, it would be hard for me. I mean, what happened with me when I did that switch, right?

[2377] When I was, you know, I found a new love for archery that I had lost because the newness ran away.

[2378] And I'm not saying I was, you know, perfect at it, but you can pick up a compound and, you know, shoot it and skip a week and still be pretty damn good with it.

[2379] Right.

[2380] You know, at stick bow, you got to shoot it all the time.

[2381] So I got to a point where 15 years ago, I would take work off and call in sick to set up my new bow.

[2382] Like I was always been addicted to archery.

[2383] And then later on down the line, that newness wore off where now, well, I'm the boss, so I don't have to call it sick.

[2384] I am so, I mean, literally a kid at a Christmas waiting for shit to come in with that recurts.

[2385] So it rejuvenated that love for archery.

[2386] And it kicks the shit out of you.

[2387] And so that challenge, you know, when I say kicks shit out of you, that challenge of practicing, it's pretty addictive.

[2388] I was actually surprised you haven't tried it more yet, but you may not have.

[2389] Yeah.

[2390] I just don't have the time.

[2391] I know what it is.

[2392] I know that it's going to take X amount of hours every single day.

[2393] And I'm scared.

[2394] It's like the same reason why I won't play golf.

[2395] Yeah.

[2396] Like, I know me. I'm not doing that.

[2397] I'm not walking around for eight hours a day because then I would be doing it every day and everything else would suffer.

[2398] That's why I don't do CrossFit, to be honest with you.

[2399] Yeah, because I'm super competitive.

[2400] Fuck, I fucking hate to lose.

[2401] I just watched that documentary.

[2402] There's a CrossFit documentary.

[2403] I forget what it's called.

[2404] It's the fittest or something like that.

[2405] It shows the competitions.

[2406] It's like fucking bonkers, Matt.

[2407] We had Matt Chan on the other day.

[2408] He took second in 2012 in the CrossFit games.

[2409] I'm not a crossfitter, so I don't know all the different shit.

[2410] But, I mean, he's fit, that's for sure.

[2411] But I've told Frank, I'm like, dude, I'm not good at not giving everything I have.

[2412] And one, I'll probably fuck myself up physically, you know, trying too hard.

[2413] But two, the time to put into that with everything else I've got going on.

[2414] My workout programs, fine, you know.

[2415] So I'm like, dude, I got enough irons in the fire.

[2416] I don't want to dive into the CrossFit arena and get consumed by that as well as many other things.

[2417] Even photography takes time and all that shit.

[2418] All your hobbies take time.

[2419] So I don't fly fish.

[2420] The CrossFit thing, too.

[2421] I know too many people that have hurt themselves.

[2422] Yeah.

[2423] They push too hard and they hurt them.

[2424] I was just reading an article about a guy who was a CrossFit trainer.

[2425] We got Rabdo.

[2426] Rabdo mylosus.

[2427] Oh, no shit.

[2428] Yeah, CrossFit trainer.

[2429] He's like, I'm a CrossFit instructor, and I got Robdo from a CrossFit workout.

[2430] But you just, you know, you're pushing yourself so hard with all those reps and you're doing it trying to keep up with all the people that are in the class with you.

[2431] I get it's great for you.

[2432] But for morons like me, probably not the best move.

[2433] I'm going to agree with you in that moron category on my end because a moron like me, like I, literally like Frank and I are competitive even though we're not competitive.

[2434] You know, we both want to do good.

[2435] If I go into a CrossFit gym and Frank meets me, it's not like I'm going to go home back.

[2436] Oh, shucks.

[2437] I lost my like, motherfucker.

[2438] And I'm going to go, you know, full ape shit.

[2439] Exactly.

[2440] But it is, again, I get, you know, guys get pissed or whatever about, you know, me. I'm not talking shit about CrossFit.

[2441] I'm saying I do not, I would probably slack on form because of whatever the water, whatever it's called for the day.

[2442] I probably chintz on form and fuck myself up.

[2443] Look, I know you can fuck yourself up doing everything.

[2444] And I fuck myself up.

[2445] doing jujitsu multiple times i'm not saying you should do it but you know i've talked to people that are real like legit trainers like steve maxwell who said he doesn't like it because it's lifting weights as a sport he goes lifting weights should be something you do that enhances sport he goes particularly when you're doing olympic movements he's like olympic movements shouldn't be done to maximum repetition and he's like they should be done controlled and they should be done you know a low number of reps and you're just trying to build strength but everyone's got their own thought process and And when you look at those guys in those competitions and the girls, the girls scare the fuck out of me. Some of those girls are built like fucking gorillas.

[2446] Yeah, it's crazy.

[2447] I don't know if that's good girls.

[2448] Yeah.

[2449] But I don't know who's into that.

[2450] But the guys are obviously insanely fit.

[2451] So saying that it's not good for you seems silly.

[2452] It's obviously very good for them.

[2453] You know, some of those fucking dudes are so impressive.

[2454] I just worry about shoulder injuries to the big one.

[2455] Like the kip -ups thingy -dingies?

[2456] What are this called?

[2457] Kippur?

[2458] Is it a kip -up, chin -ups?

[2459] And body muscle -ups?

[2460] Those things look like a recipe for me to fuck myself up.

[2461] Yeah, they're a less recipe for a labrum tear.

[2462] But guys, a bunch of guys gave me shit when I set up my own gym.

[2463] They're like, it looks like a cross -fit gym.

[2464] And I'm like, yeah, I'm not doing any kip -ups, though.

[2465] Like, making jokes, but I do a pretty simple.

[2466] Well, your gym looks like a functional strength gym, you know?

[2467] I do the most, I do, you know, as far as, like, I'll do one -arm dumbbell snatches.

[2468] I do some straight -leg dead lifts.

[2469] But I do everything in moderation.

[2470] and where I used to lift super heavy for power, like crazy heavy now.

[2471] Well, you used to be a big motherfucker, right?

[2472] 70 pounds bigger than I am now.

[2473] Yeah, that's so big.

[2474] Well, I got to, I bench, my goal was to bench over 500.

[2475] Now, I, if we're going to get any dickheads emailing me, I cheated, right?

[2476] I used steroids, and I didn't know what the fuck I was doing.

[2477] So, but I tell you what, when your wiener breaks from taking that, that'll make you stop doing anything because that's what happened.

[2478] I didn't know what the fuck I was doing.

[2479] But I got to where I could lift pretty much anything I wanted.

[2480] I couldn't walk from me to Jamie and back without getting winded.

[2481] And so, do you like, I mean, I'll just list what I took.

[2482] It doesn't matter, right?

[2483] So I was taking 250 milligrams or one millimeter of a nantate every three days.

[2484] So basically, I've taken three shots a week of a nantate.

[2485] I don't know what that is.

[2486] Is that hardcore stuff?

[2487] No, it's just testosterone, 250 milligrams.

[2488] So I take one shot of that a week now.

[2489] for being on...

[2490] Testosterone replacement.

[2491] Yep, testosterone replacement.

[2492] But I was also taking Eka poise.

[2493] That's for horses.

[2494] Yes, it is.

[2495] I was taking Eka poise.

[2496] I was taking...

[2497] That makes you super purple.

[2498] Deca, I took Trenne a bowling for a while, but I could not handle Tren.

[2499] Dude, fuck, I hung a guy out of a building.

[2500] Like, Tren is not good.

[2501] It's superhuman strength, aggressive, sex drive, but superhuman dickhead, too.

[2502] like you it's just not for me so i only took that for a little bit and i didn't take it for that long the one thing i found out is one there's a reason that you're not supposed to be on that shit and i'm not a religious guy so i'm not going to say god didn't mean you to be that way but somebody didn't mean me to fucking be that way well you're monkeying with your your structure you know you give a chemical and biological and hormonal structure of your body and you're monkeying with that you know you're adding massive amounts of muscle to your body you're adding superhuman levels of hormones to your body.

[2503] Well, and I, you know, I'm, like, the first time I took Echopoise, it's a horse decongestant.

[2504] So I took it and I was like, decongestion?

[2505] Yeah, it's like, cleans out the airways or opens up to bronchial dilator.

[2506] Some hack and shit up.

[2507] I'm like, what am I getting sick?

[2508] Well, it's because I, you know, there was horses and pigs on the fucking container, right?

[2509] Idiot, right?

[2510] People ask me about it.

[2511] I'm like, don't do it.

[2512] Eat healthier, you know, workout hard.

[2513] Like, I lost everything anyway, but the problem was, is in the middle of the, that they have deca and it's good they call it deca dick right it makes you like like no sex drive and i wasn't taking anything to um because i watched hidalgo right and the horse fell in the pit with my daughter and i started crying i don't cry it's a movie right okay anyway horse falls in the pit and the horse gets like a spear in its leg and i'm crying i'm like what the fuck is wrong with me well you're emotional jesus my uh estrogen levels were like through the roof so i looked and like an idiot, I was taking, I had 200 milligram per milliliter DECA, and then I had another bottle that was like 400 or something, and I got them mixed up, so I was doubling up on DECA.

[2514] How hard did you do this for?

[2515] Maybe a year and a half?

[2516] Did you get yourself checked out after it was over?

[2517] Oh, yeah.

[2518] Well, when I first got off, I wish I had a photo.

[2519] I don't know if we were pulling up how big I got to do.

[2520] I look like that rock on Fantastic Four.

[2521] It's fucking weird looking.

[2522] Dude, I had Ronnie Coleman in here a couple weeks ago.

[2523] First of all, what a great.

[2524] guy so nice yeah like so friendly and so so happy even though he's basically broken yeah he's had how many back surgeries did he say he had something crazy yeah like more than 10 back surgeries you read an article it's at 13 but i don't know and that was probably it his entire back is basically fused yeah but when you look at him when he was mr olympia you know when he was winning yeah Jesus yeah Jesus I mean that a human being can get that big oh it's it's insane and I mean I only Scratch like I didn't put the you know he's done it in his whole life right those guys are freaks Phil Heath lives by us in Denver you'll see him every now and they're you used to and he's a new kind of a one guy like Ronnie the thing is though it's like you go into a gym and grab two 200 pound dumbbells and you start doing incline binge with no spotter that stare you know grabbing some looks but I genetically was not built to lift that heaven right that that's there's some help involved in that but I got to a point where I was super emotional and not like a I don't believe really in the Royd rage thing because I never got that what you're talking about you just telling me you're hanging a guy off the side of a building that's word rage yeah well let me finish good point but I think if you just take an increased amount of like testosterone and anabolic in general if you're a happy guy you're happy if you're a sad guy you're sad and if you're a dickhead you're more of a dickhead the thing with um well trend that's why i got off it that was one thing for me that definitely i just i was changing psychologically when i got off it was the problem like emotionally i was a wreck like that's the closest i'm not like a suicidal guy that's the closest where my brain just didn't function right and then i got off cold turkey and i whatever that is a big issue with kids young kids um their endocrine system crashes and just like we were talking about with soldiers that have been blown up a bunch or football players or fighters, your body's not producing testosterone correctly after you get off that shit and you get really, really depressed for some people.

[2525] Bigger exi is what they were telling me because I was afraid to go to the gym because I was shrinking.

[2526] Oh, right.

[2527] So you know what I did is I joined Planet Fitness.

[2528] Perfect.

[2529] You can hide in there and be little and fit right in.

[2530] You can't even make noise.

[2531] No, I know, right?

[2532] They kick you out.

[2533] Have you seen that alarm?

[2534] Have you ever seen an alarm go off?

[2535] Yeah.

[2536] So there was a couple muscle heads that.

[2537] went in there, I think, to prove it in one of the gyms that I went to, and they were grunting and deadlifting and drop it.

[2538] They kicked them out.

[2539] They pull your membership.

[2540] That's so crazy.

[2541] You can't try hard.

[2542] I know, right?

[2543] If you're lifting heavy, you're going to like, if you do that, they're like, hey, you're trying too hard.

[2544] We don't want that here.

[2545] It was weird for me. I'm not a weight dropper.

[2546] But definitely, if you're doing a deadlift, there's something, and it's heavy, something's probably going to come out of you, right?

[2547] You're going to do some grunting.

[2548] I'm a grunter, pro.

[2549] And so I don't, I'm not the guy that makes a crazy amount of noise in the gym, but there's times where last couple, you know, ugh.

[2550] Yeah.

[2551] Oh, yeah, it's frowned upon.

[2552] So I went there for like six months, which I will say was the smartest thing I could have done.

[2553] There was no temptation.

[2554] There's tootsie rolls in a fucking basket at the front of it, right?

[2555] Is it really?

[2556] Oh, yeah.

[2557] Tutsi rolls?

[2558] Pizza?

[2559] They serve pizza?

[2560] Oh, it's the weirdest shit I've ever seen.

[2561] At that place and space in my life, it was what I needed because I had no temptation.

[2562] I just think it's amazing that they would sell.

[2563] up a place where they're encouraging you to not try too hard and they do well it I'm sure I was that's how people like it I was laughing because well I say laughing like for me once I got out of it you know I was like that is the strangest shit I've ever seen there's a gym that wants you to be fat that's strange because they do there's pizza Tuesdays or whatever is it did they want you to be fat or do they just encourage you to not intimidate the other people with your performance is that what it is probably because that was I was definitely the odd ball at the one one I went to and so like I would do calf raises and I would put two 45s on each side on the ground and then I would put four 45s on the like a Smith machine and and I'm just doing calf drops right oh that got shit canned immediately I was like you told you not to do it yeah well one they said I was taking all the weights up and two they said that's not they didn't kick me off totally they said that is frowned upon here and I was like what is frowned upon here calf raises because I how I was doing it um when I was like Like, this is strange, but I can't, again, it was good for me at that time to get off.

[2564] Because, dude, that was the hardest thing mentally that I had to do once in a while.

[2565] That is everything I hate about America.

[2566] Yeah.

[2567] Like that whole, just the idea behind that, don't try too hard.

[2568] Just like, no, no, no, not here.

[2569] Here we're going to use 45 % exertion.

[2570] Dude, I get in trouble a lot.

[2571] I get called a dick for being the guy that's rubbed some dirt in your crotch and get the fuck up and go.

[2572] Like, not rub some dirt in your crotch.

[2573] Is that real good advice?

[2574] It gets a point across, right?

[2575] Well, when guys will ask me certain pieces of advice that they need, like, a, they need someone like maybe you or me or Ronella or whoever to give them a, oh, man, that's okay.

[2576] I'm not that fucking guy.

[2577] Don't send me a message where you think you're going to get some kind of, you know, oh, it's okay that you suck, you know, keep going.

[2578] Like, I try to circle myself with people that tell me I stuck to try harder.

[2579] That makes sense?

[2580] Yeah.

[2581] And I get messages and I'm like, dude, no, that's not okay.

[2582] I'm like, you're fucking weak.

[2583] Just push harder.

[2584] That's the key.

[2585] Keep trying.

[2586] Well, the only problem with that kind of advice is some people start off with a terrible base, right?

[2587] If you're a person that doesn't have any athletic background, no exercise at all, you really do have to start off light.

[2588] And I tell people all the time, like if you're just starting exercise, say if you work in an office, you're in a cubicle, you're completely sedentary, all you have to do is just start walking.

[2589] Just start with walks, then start with, do some push up.

[2590] do a few things.

[2591] Don't do anything crazy.

[2592] That's great advice.

[2593] That's what the advice I'm giving, though, is that type of advice.

[2594] Like when they send me their diet plan, and it's the diet plan of a Greek God.

[2595] And I'm like, yeah, you're fucking lying.

[2596] Like, you're not doing that shit.

[2597] Like, that's what I'm talking about.

[2598] I totally agree with what you're saying.

[2599] But think about it, if I message you and said, hey, man, I've been eating 80 grams of carbs a day.

[2600] I'm walking four miles, no soda.

[2601] I'm still 260 pounds at 5 '9.

[2602] I think something's wrong.

[2603] And it's like, yeah, you're fucking lying to yourself is what's wrong.

[2604] Or maybe something's really wrong.

[2605] You need to go to a doctor.

[2606] I've said that, too, because you, I have met a lot of people with thyroid problems.

[2607] Yeah, definitely that.

[2608] But you can get checked out.

[2609] And so I am probably not the best for advice because literally if you're the guy that's gotten checked out and you're just making excuses, I'm like, dude, you quit fucking lying to yourself and push more.

[2610] It is kind of crazy how many people lie about how often they work out and what they do.

[2611] yeah it's really sad yeah well and again i probably sound jaded but coming as a recovering fat kid myself right like like i wake up and eat peanut butter my wife has to hide the shit right i got problems so i know where they're coming from you say that but i've never seen you fat all the years i've known you you've always been fit but i always say i'm fat so i don't get that exactly but that's the mentality that's the right mentality versus the mentality that lies about how often you work out and what you eat well and and and and you know again i call myself fat And I always will because I never want to be fat again.

[2612] When I got up to 260 when I got out of the Army.

[2613] Did you ever get to a point where you were making your own meals for the backcountry?

[2614] Like, do you ever use a dehydrator?

[2615] I do that now.

[2616] Do you do that now?

[2617] Yeah.

[2618] What do you cook?

[2619] Like, what kind of stuff do you make?

[2620] So, rewind the cheapest meal I can get.

[2621] If I'm in a hurry and I can't make it as I get brown rice top ramen and olive oil, for people listening.

[2622] That is a cheap way to do it.

[2623] So tuna and olive oil, brown rice top ramen?

[2624] Yep.

[2625] What is brown rice top ramen?

[2626] It's just a healthier top ramen.

[2627] Okay.

[2628] And then I make my own seasoning so it's not loaded with sodium.

[2629] Okay.

[2630] But when I make a meal, and there's multiple ways to do that, the, like, super easiest is just take elk steak, right?

[2631] Or elk a roast.

[2632] Cook the roast like you normally would.

[2633] And then in that roast, I'll cut up sweet potatoes and I'll put in veggies in there, just basically make kind of a stew.

[2634] And then in that, then I put a – so when I do that, though, I put a ton of.

[2635] of olive oil in it because of the fat.

[2636] And then I have trays on a dehydrator, and they're the trays where it's like a frisbee, so it can't go through.

[2637] So I've got elk, sweet potatoes, olive oil.

[2638] I'll usually put in, like, broccoli, shit like that.

[2639] And the sweet potatoes, I cut up relatively small.

[2640] I dehydrated it.

[2641] It's that simple.

[2642] Do you have to, when you make a meal like that with a dehydrate, do you have to add extra seasoning so that it tastes good when you rehydrated?

[2643] There's two ways to do it.

[2644] What I encourage people to do is not add as much seasoning when you cook it, because it will be hard to get it right, meaning everyone might, if you've got a buddy or depending upon what the meal is, some meals are more flavorful than others.

[2645] Some are more bland.

[2646] I add it after.

[2647] Oh, okay.

[2648] So when you're in, it's like you pour boiling water into it and then you add the seasoning on top of that?

[2649] So what I do is I, depending, you can do it in a Ziploc bag, but the easiest thing is those just cheap plastic containers or you can put in a titanium when it doesn't matter but once i you know kick it off boil it get it rehydrated get the boiling water in there i just put a lid on it let it sit for 10 minutes not very long or boil it until it is if i have extra fuel and then it's ready to go just like that just like a mountain house the same principle dude nothing makes me fart harder than mountain houses yeah and it turns your poop funny colors like morees is an orange and a mountain house is a green um i've never pooped green at least i did and i did look at it but the the smells that were coming out of my body last time I ate Mountain House it's just like Christ the shit cannot be good for you it's got a lot of sodium and most people are like why is it matter it's like 150 nights a year it fucking matters like I have got to I can't eat those things all the time so um there's a few new companies off -grid's pretty healthy that I use but when I make my own like I will take Idaho and potatoes and then at home I make for shepherds pie and then what I've made and put in the dehydrator I just mix it with Idaho and potatoes so I make my own So you dehydrate it and then do you vacuum seal it in little packets?

[2650] It depends.

[2651] If I'm a lot of times, no. I actually just put it in a zip block bag.

[2652] Really?

[2653] Because the vacuum seal thing, it helps.

[2654] But if I'm making it per trip or per month.

[2655] You're not trying to get it to stay forever.

[2656] Yeah, I'm not worried about it.

[2657] So, yeah, that's one of the things.

[2658] But there's other ways to cheat the, you know, I say cheat the system, but there is other ways that you can save money, eat healthier, you know, when you're out there.

[2659] And a lot of guys, if you're only going for seven days, it's not that big of a deal, but long term, you know, you really got to think ahead.

[2660] I would also imagine that it gives you an extra sense of satisfaction that you're doing something.

[2661] Like, you're creating your own meals.

[2662] And while you're eating that, you know this is a meal that from an animal that you shot yourself, you put the meal together yourself, you dehydrated it.

[2663] Now you're rehydrating it.

[2664] That extra sense of satisfaction that you're doing something.

[2665] It is.

[2666] Actually, I've done it so much now that satisfaction is almost kind of, again, desensitized because we're talking 20 years.

[2667] It's normal.

[2668] It's normal.

[2669] What's weird, what's not normal is when people look at me like I'm weird that I do it.

[2670] That is weird for me. Like, I'm like, what?

[2671] It's not, I'm like, you cook burger, don't you?

[2672] Like, really, people come over and, well, my wife's a real estate agent.

[2673] She gives a package to the people that want a wild game.

[2674] Dude, it's like the smartest thing she ever thought of because I don't, you know, what is, I've never bought elk, but I guess it's fucking expensive if you go buy it.

[2675] Yeah, so she'll do like a package wild game as a thank you if she sells a house.

[2676] they'll call and she has all kinds of recipes or whatever so when people come over and they're like what are we eating and I'm like oh that's mountain goat and that's moose there and then we have like jalapino cheeseburger and we'll mix it with our dad because outad it's kind of a weird flavor what does how dad taste like is everybody is varied on that some people say it's terrible some people say it's delicious I would say the taste is good it's tough chew so it's good like like a brace it and cook it slow cook it so I don't think you can fuck up anything you should slow cook that's the thing when people are i'm like how do you fuck up a roast just but if you like i took a backstrap or a tenderloin and cooked it it was pretty tough so we make everything into burger salami you know pepperoni sticks or whatever out of the out dad now is it my first choice no but i tell you the burger's pretty flavorful so we make almost everything out of into breakfast sausage and burger does it depend on what time of year like if it's in the rut i would say the rut part has a huge part to do with it but if you make it into jalapeno cheeseburger I give a fuck if you put that into a turd that is going to taste good right it doesn't matter and so the last one that big big one I shot we made almost that whole thing into well we did we made the whole thing into burger brats breakfast sausage but it tastes pretty good it's not bad I mean I think how people take care of the animal as part of the problem and how they cook it so we let them we drip them you know we drain them totally and when I say age it not aging we'll let it hang for a couple days we let it age as far as let it drain out it makes it more tender so I hate when people say things taste bad when it's just you're a dumb shit bad preparation yeah it's bad prep because I haven't tasted much wild game that wasn't great dude we just did three hours believe it or not good god time flies in this room I know I haven't peed yet and that's a fucking miracle I know you drank two kill clips and a bottle of water yeah um listen man And tell everybody your podcast, Kafaro Cast, you can get if you're interested more in hunting and backpacking.

[2677] Kofarokas, it's available everywhere.

[2678] And what is the, K -F -I -N -A -R -U, the website?

[2679] So, K -I -F -A -R -U dot net is the website, and K -F -R -U -R -U -Net is the podcast.

[2680] And best fucking backpacks in the game.

[2681] Yeah, I appreciate it, man. Thanks for having me on.

[2682] Great for being here, brother.

[2683] It was awesome.

[2684] It was really fun to talk to you.

[2685] Yeah, definitely.

[2686] All right.

[2687] Bye, everybody.

[2688] Thank you.