'Rabbit Hole,' Episode 3: Mirror Image

[0] From the New York Times, I'm Michael Babaro.

[1] Today, rabbit hole.

[2] Episode 3.

[3] Or vision, do you want to turn into reality?

[4] Hey, everybody.

[5] Equality is a dangerous myth.

[6] It felt like I was chasing the truth about reality.

[7] Go to Africa, you will see a real rape culture.

[8] And it was an uncomfortable truth.

[9] Take your privilege somewhere else.

[10] These people hate Americans.

[11] They hate white people.

[12] They hate white people.

[13] They hate you and me. And I accepted that.

[14] And that's what made.

[15] it even more compelling.

[16] It's necessary to have a certain kind of separation.

[17] Okay, so I'll let you.

[18] Yeah.

[19] Yeah, so when did you feel your views shifting again?

[20] So, a big thing was Destiny.

[21] I'm going to die.

[22] Oh, no more enemies, please.

[23] I'll then explain who Destiny is.

[24] Destiny is a Twitch streamer?

[25] Okay.

[26] There is a rush.

[27] to get all of the achievements for the campaign motive.

[28] Kevin Ruse.

[29] 16 streamers, I think, that are participating.

[30] What is a Twitch streamer?

[31] Okay.

[32] Good job.

[33] Thanks a lot.

[34] So what Destiny does is a version of this thing that a lot of people do on the Internet for money now.

[35] They stream themselves playing video games.

[36] Oh, look at all the people.

[37] I'm kind of lose.

[38] Hundreds of thousands of people are watching them.

[39] Every time they go on stream.

[40] and donating money to them and subscribing to their channels and this sort of becomes their full -time job.

[41] And if you've ever, like, spent time in, like, a multiplayer video game, you've met someone like Destiny.

[42] Oh, God, what is this fucking cancer?

[43] He's the guy in the chat room who's, like, profane and irreverent.

[44] You fucking suck shit, Jim.

[45] You're just sitting there fucking watching me. You're not doing anything.

[46] What the fucking you do?

[47] Edgy in this performative way.

[48] But then after that, he, like, went back onto the autism train and went full -blown fucking retard on everything.

[49] You know, if you tell him not to say something, he's definitely going to say it.

[50] I'm sorry.

[51] I'm a gamer.

[52] I use words like that.

[53] And he started doing this thing a couple years ago where he would invite people on his channel.

[54] And while he was playing video games, he would debate them.

[55] All right.

[56] Can we be done with this and then?

[57] I don't think we're ever going to agree on this.

[58] No, yeah.

[59] Listen, hey, dude, you're, listen, I, despite all our disagreements, despite all of it, dude, you're a solid mind.

[60] I really appreciate it.

[61] And he doesn't just debate.

[62] I hate you.

[63] I legitimately fucking hate you.

[64] You are one of the people.

[65] You are one of the people that I would seek to de -platform.

[66] He owns them.

[67] You unironically told me in here that Obama should be held accountable for the fucking housing crisis.

[68] You are beyond fucking retarded.

[69] His goal was not just to prove the other person wrong.

[70] It was to make them look like an absolute idiot.

[71] How was Trump cheating on his wife relevant to anything?

[72] Who the fuck cares about that?

[73] Who cares about that?

[74] Who cares?

[75] You mean Republicans?

[76] The people that talk about fucking.

[77] God, every fucking Tuesday, you mean Trump that holds...

[78] He would do these, they call them internet blood sports.

[79] What do you mean, who cares about that?

[80] When fucking 95 % of the evangelicals, part of the largest fucking religious voter base in the United States votes for Republican, every fucking election?

[81] Where he just basically, like, he would hit you with facts and data, but at the same time he's making fun of you.

[82] The idea that you're voting for a Republican, because you don't like Clinton, because Clinton bombed some shit is hilariously fucking stupid.

[83] Republicans are going to fucking stop bombing the Middle East?

[84] The fuck is that shit.

[85] What a dumb fucking...

[86] That's like saying like...

[87] Even though Destiny is very much on the left side of the political spectrum.

[88] It seems like you're kind of trying to weasel in that, like, well, people didn't really think this thing, but you don't really have any polling data or anything whatsoever to support that view.

[89] That's just your personal belief, right?

[90] Do you admit that?

[91] Yeah, yeah.

[92] No, I think it's a personal belief that's based on...

[93] Well, it's a pretty sound understanding of time.

[94] And Caleb sees the way that he is owning and destroying his opponents.

[95] No, no, I can't let you say something completely incorrect and move on, because this is how you win your arguments.

[96] You say a bunch of bullshit, and then you try to move on to a separate thing.

[97] Oh, man, this Destiny guy's great.

[98] Like, that was awesome.

[99] Caleb kind of respects him for it.

[100] And then there was this one day that Caleb got a recommendation for another Destiny debate.

[101] And this time Destiny was taking on...

[102] Hello?

[103] Hey, what's up?

[104] Can you hear me?

[105] Lauren Southern.

[106] Yeah, yeah, I can hear you fine.

[107] And then I remember seeing the Lauren Southern debate pop up on the sidebar.

[108] And I clicked on it.

[109] How's it going?

[110] I am stoked.

[111] And I thought, oh, Lauren Southern, this is going to be great.

[112] Okay, so here's my problem, Doug.

[113] Five or six years ago, I was a pretty right -leaning person, okay?

[114] Really?

[115] Yeah, believe it or not?

[116] But the Lauren Southern that he sees...

[117] Do you agree or disagree with that?

[118] I don't know.

[119] I don't know, honestly.

[120] Is not the one he's used to.

[121] You did a video where you linked an article about how refugees were causing an increase in crime.

[122] But if you followed that article in Reddit, I remember I tweeted this at you or not.

[123] The article actually stated that even though the amount of refugees coming into the country was increasing, the per capita crime was actually decreasing drastically.

[124] And that the majority...

[125] You're saying that there is no proof that immigrants are a net drain on the country, I think, is ridiculous.

[126] I mean, most of the reading that I did to prepare for this was of the economists that you cited in your book who agrees that immigration has been a net gain for the entire Western world.

[127] They were talking about immigration, and he nailed her down on the stats.

[128] You focused a lot on the economic side, and I got to a...

[129] I am not an economist.

[130] I don't think either of us are.

[131] Then...

[132] So I want to talk about culture for most of this, quite frankly.

[133] But if you want to talk about economics...

[134] She wanted to jump topics to culture.

[135] But, you have a whole chapter on immigration...

[136] No, no, no, no, no.