#762 - Robin Black

[0] Doom, doom, do -dum.

[1] Amber Live.

[2] My man, I wish people who weren't watching on YouTube could just see the majesty that is the jacket that Robin Black is wearing right now.

[3] How would you describe that?

[4] It's just a gin jacket, man. It's a colorful jean jacket.

[5] I like colorful stuff.

[6] It's definitely, but it's not just colorful.

[7] It's like you're trying to blend in in a rave.

[8] Well, it could be, it does have some camouflaging effects.

[9] Yeah, if you were hunting in a rave, that's what you would wear.

[10] Exactly.

[11] I don't know what you'd be hunting there.

[12] Pussy.

[13] Yeah, I guess.

[14] Ecstasy.

[15] Yeah.

[16] It's like a light blue with like purple.

[17] Yeah.

[18] Some sort of decorations.

[19] Camouflage is a weird thing.

[20] Like when you see guys walking down the street with camouflage.

[21] And it's like, what if they really were camouflage?

[22] Like you just see a head floating down the street.

[23] Well, one day they're going to have that.

[24] Have you ever seen that Japanese invention they came up with?

[25] They have this like a cloak that you can wear and it essentially takes an image of what's behind you and projects it on the front.

[26] That's invisibility.

[27] Yeah, it's, you know, it's kind of crude right now.

[28] But what it is is like the guy standing, like, you could see it right here.

[29] Look at this.

[30] That is ridiculous.

[31] Isn't that nuts?

[32] That is wild.

[33] So what we're looking at is a guy holding a ball, and the ball does it.

[34] And so the ball, somehow or another, he's holding it in front of his face, and it doesn't show him when it's in front of him, it shows what's behind him.

[35] Crazy.

[36] I don't know how that one's working.

[37] Yeah, I don't know.

[38] So here's the, this is the cloak.

[39] I've seen the cloak before.

[40] But, you know, you can still see the cloak.

[41] Well, that's the thing with that kind of technology.

[42] Once it starts, then you're on your way.

[43] Exactly.

[44] Then whether it's in one year or three years or 12 years, you're going to be invisible.

[45] Yeah.

[46] We're in such a strange time because these emerging things are just starting to come out where people go, ooh, oh, whoa.

[47] You know, like magic leap.

[48] Have you seen that magic leap technology?

[49] I just retweeted a new version of it today that somebody sent me. It's like, oh, God, damn it.

[50] It just keeps getting so bad.

[51] Was it Magic Leap or was it the Microsoft one?

[52] Which one's a Google one and one's the Microsoft one?

[53] Magic Leap is the Microsoft one.

[54] Which one that I tweet today?

[55] I'm looking right now.

[56] But they've...

[57] Yeah, HoloLens.

[58] I'm sorry, Microsoft is HoloLens.

[59] That's Microsoft.

[60] They've got these new goggles that you're going to be able to wear, and it's going to be like minority report.

[61] Like the world is going to be your desktop.

[62] You're going to spin things in the air, stop them, expand them, contract them.

[63] I mean, you knew that was kind of.

[64] Yeah.

[65] Like as soon as you see it on a movie, you know that's going to happen.

[66] The one thing right now, it's like we are in probably the fastest time of change ever.

[67] Yeah.

[68] You know what I mean?

[69] It's like if you have an idea, that idea can be done.

[70] It's just a series of steps to have to do it.

[71] Yeah.

[72] I mean, I think if you go back just a few, is this it right here, Jamie?

[73] Just a picture.

[74] Just pictures of them using it.

[75] Like how crazy that's going to be, man. You're going to be able to like see movies play out in your living room right in front of you.

[76] Video games.

[77] You know, If you were doing a demonstration for like a company or something like that, you want to show them a project you're working on or maybe some architecture you're trying to construct.

[78] Insane.

[79] Yeah.

[80] Fucking crazy times.

[81] And, you know, the first thing people are going to start doing is, how do we connect this to sex?

[82] Oh, yeah.

[83] Right away.

[84] That's where the money is.

[85] That's what somebody's thinking of that right now.

[86] Yeah, people are going to be able to fuck right in your living room.

[87] Right?

[88] You're going to be able to, that's what the new porn's going to be.

[89] The thing is I can fuck in my living room.

[90] Yes, right?

[91] You can do it yourself.

[92] I could.

[93] Yeah.

[94] Do it yourself world.

[95] We need to get back to that, people.

[96] Get back to doing things.

[97] actually not just watching yeah that is that is a weird thing i mean as much as you know you make comedy and fighting and podcasts and stuff it's still strange that people watch stuff all the time don't you find people love to be entertained yeah i do you know yeah yeah we like we like to just have other people do the shit let's sit back and watch yeah but do you define this is something of i always kind of wonder about you how you can possibly consume so many interesting and unrelated topics and develop expertise in so many unrelated things while being a content maker like you're making stuff that people consume how can you possibly be mastering all these things at once I don't really have any I'm not I've mastered anything you know I'm pretty good at comedy I throw some good kicks I know Jiu Jitsu pretty well I'm not a master at any of those things yeah but I mean you're bow hunting you're you know there's so many different things you know like I literally do fighting stuff all day every day and when I get a break I hang out with my wife and sometimes I'll take a day off and that's it I don't know about other stuff it fascinates me how you can possibly know about so many things that seem unconnected I assume that it's probably some something wrong with my brain you know I assume that this it's like a extreme form of ADD but I need a bunch of different things going on in my mind in my life.

[98] I just, if I don't have a bunch of different things going on, I don't, I don't feel stimulated enough.

[99] I'm almost the opposite.

[100] It's like, I literally specialize so deeply in something.

[101] Once I know something about it, I need to know way more about it.

[102] And when I know stuff about that, that opens up a ton of new questions.

[103] And that's why it's the same kind of area of stuff that I am obsessively researching and studying.

[104] I do that too, but I just do it with a bunch of different things.

[105] That's what I mean.

[106] That's what I'm getting.

[107] I listen to archery podcasts where they're just talking about very specific, like, ways to hold a bow and, and fix your sight and make sure you use your release properly.

[108] I'll listen those fucking things for hours and hours and hours obsessively on top of practicing.

[109] I just get obsessed with things, but I used to worry about it when I was younger.

[110] I used to be like, what the fuck is wrong with me?

[111] I can't just concentrate on one thing.

[112] I always have all these other shit going on in my life.

[113] But then I realize, like, well, that's just me. If I just enjoy it, you just do those things.

[114] then it doesn't concern me. Then I'm just appreciative that I have so many interests.

[115] Did you ever read some piece somebody wrote something about, I hate Joe Rogan or why I hate Joe Rogan?

[116] And then he went on this path and he discovered that he actually hated that you were your authentic self.

[117] Have you ever read this?

[118] Somebody wrote this thing.

[119] And as he learned more about what it was to be authentically him, he realized his hatred for some famous person was that he was looking at.

[120] at him and he hated that that guy was actually him.

[121] Well, it's easy to hate somebody that's like in the microscope all the time because you'll find all these flaws.

[122] Like if you follow someone every day, day in, day out and expect perfection or enlightenment, you're going to be massively disappointed because the kind of exposure that you get when you're doing a podcast, like when you're talking to someone for hours and hours and hours, you know, I've done 700 and what is this?

[123] 762?

[124] 762 podcast.

[125] The shortest one is an hour.

[126] hour.

[127] Most of them are three hours.

[128] That's 2 ,100, almost 2 ,500 hours.

[129] Somewhere around that, you know, give or take.

[130] But it's, yeah, you're going to get annoyed at me. I get annoyed at me. But his point wasn't that.

[131] It was that you are authentically Joe Rogan.

[132] Like, whatever it is, you do, you ended up being, I mean, you're sitting here in a place that you built to do the thing that you want to do exactly the way you want to do it.

[133] You're as authentically a human being as a person can be.

[134] I guess so.

[135] You know?

[136] Like when you're talking about accepting why you go and do things the way that you do them, that's why you do.

[137] Because you're like, fuck being some other thing.

[138] I'm going to be this thing.

[139] Well, that's just, I think having this kind of a life is super lucky.

[140] And if I didn't live it that way, I wouldn't be taking advantage of this huge opportunity that very few people get.

[141] Most people have to work.

[142] They have an actual fucking job that they don't really necessarily like that much.

[143] And somehow or another, I've figured out a way, I mean, I worked when I was young.

[144] younger for sure, and I figured out how to get to this spot by sort of moving away from things that I didn't want to do.

[145] But now that I get to a point where everything I do, whether it's this, I was looking forward to this.

[146] I'm like, I'm going to get to hang on my friend Robert.

[147] We're going to have some fun, talk some MMA and life and all kinds of shit.

[148] And that's the same thing I feel like when I go do stand -up, same thing I feel like when I'm practicing archery or I'm working out.

[149] These are things I enjoy doing.

[150] And that's why I do what I do.

[151] And I really believe people can do that.

[152] I think you just have to start, first of all, by figuring out what it is you want to do.

[153] Yeah.

[154] Because if you don't know that, then you're just going to start wandering.

[155] But the thing is, if you push somebody, they all know.

[156] Most people really know what it is that they love.

[157] I find that young people a lot of times don't.

[158] Like a lot of young folks, when I talk to them, they just don't have a path.

[159] They're like, God, I just need to find something to do.

[160] I'm thinking about doing this, or maybe I'll join the military to get some guidance and some discipline, or maybe I'll do that.

[161] Or, they just, it's hard to tell because, like, what's cool for you, you know, Jamie might not like.

[162] What Jamie might like, I might not like you.

[163] Jamie was trying to find Kanye West shoes all the last night.

[164] I don't like that, but he probably thinks this jacket is stupid.

[165] Motherfucker was up all night trying to get Kanye West shoes.

[166] Yeah, you know, it's true.

[167] Yeah, it's for everybody, everybody's different, you know.

[168] I think you've got to figure out what it is you like doing, because the path of going to do that is the whole point.

[169] Yeah.

[170] It's not, people often be like, well, I want to get this kind of job or I want to buy this kind of house.

[171] And it's not, it's not supposed to be that way, in my opinion.

[172] You're supposed to start on a path and on that path traveling along it.

[173] You're having adventures.

[174] You're stumbling onto new things.

[175] And the challenge of it being really hard to achieve is part of what gets you up every day.

[176] Yeah.

[177] And it's also fun.

[178] Yeah.

[179] Watching things improve.

[180] Watching yourself get better at things and analyzing things and figuring out what the holes are, the flaws.

[181] where the errors are and your little system that you've created.

[182] Those moments are fucking awesome.

[183] They're really fun.

[184] It's just, you know what really frustrates me?

[185] Really frustrates me when talking about these things.

[186] Sometimes I'll get messages from people and they'll say, well, that's easy for you to say because, you know, you've got lucky and you found it.

[187] But like, you know, a lot of people can't do that.

[188] A lot of people have responded.

[189] And they'll come up with all these reasons why they can't instead of saying, well, my situation is particularly difficult.

[190] difficult, but there's a workaround, and I'm going to find it.

[191] Yeah.

[192] It might take me a year.

[193] It might take me a decade.

[194] I'm going to find it.

[195] If wherever it is you're ending up is somewhere in the future, you don't know what that is.

[196] And now it's like, well, I would like to do that thing I got to do, but I have all these responsibilities.

[197] Okay, our new job, figure out how to take care of those responsibilities.

[198] That's step one.

[199] Do you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs?

[200] Yes.

[201] Yeah.

[202] That idea that first we have to like, you got to eat, you got to stay dry and you got to drink water and once we've kind of accomplished that kind of stuff that's out of the way then we start to go a little further how do we become safer once that happens you climb up to the point that you're actually eating sleeping having sex you have a place to live you have a job and now you're trying to learn more things and it's just a natural kind of transition to get smarter and move but it's easy to say that the hard part i think is starting going that yeah you know the hard part is going, okay, this isn't working.

[203] Well, what if I got some exercise?

[204] Like, maybe that would help.

[205] Like, for some people, that path isn't, what job do I got to start tomorrow?

[206] That path is like, well, I'm unhealthy.

[207] Or I don't think my thought processes aren't things that lead me this way.

[208] So you've got to start way low on that thing and start getting that shit together.

[209] Eat good, get sleep, and exercise.

[210] Everybody should have to do those things.

[211] Like, our society should be shaped in a way that you have to do those things.

[212] Because if you aren't doing those things, right there, you're starting from a place where you're just not performing as well as you could.

[213] It's so hard to tell people that, though.

[214] They don't want to hear it.

[215] They just love that food porn.

[216] They just love just shoving donuts in their face.

[217] Oh, yeah.

[218] Pasta and just fucking sugar.

[219] It's tasty shit.

[220] But there's a lot of things that are terrible for you that are great.

[221] Heroines.

[222] I've only been in Woodland Hills three times.

[223] This is the second time I've been on your show.

[224] The other time was the time I was on heroin for four days.

[225] That's the only other time I was in.

[226] Four days.

[227] Four days.

[228] In Woodland Hills.

[229] I was 20 years old.

[230] Damn.

[231] Yeah, it was weird.

[232] Shooting up?

[233] Yeah, yeah.

[234] It was very strange.

[235] That's a commitment.

[236] Yeah.

[237] It didn't start that way.

[238] Like, literally, like all things.

[239] Nobody grows up and says, I'm going to do really stupid things.

[240] I was like 20, and I lived in Winnipeg, Manitoba.

[241] And I was really into music.

[242] and I came down here for, I was a hairdresser at the time.

[243] And so, and this jacket would work perfectly.

[244] So your hair.

[245] Yeah, my hair, exactly.

[246] So, and I was down here doing some, like, I would do platform work where I would, like, demonstrate how to do stuff for other hairdressers and people.

[247] And I went to, not the Viper Room, one of those clubs.

[248] And this pretty woman comes up to me and says, are you a musician?

[249] And I'm like, yeah, but, and I'm kind of about to say, but I live in Canada.

[250] And she goes, well, my husband's putting together a band, and you've got to meet him.

[251] His name's Andy McCoy.

[252] And Andy McCoy wouldn't mean much to a lot of people, but to somebody who was really into like Motley Crew and stuff like that, he was in a band called Hanoi Rocks that was kind of started that movement.

[253] I'm like, whoa, shit, I'm going to be famous.

[254] Like, I'm going to be rich and famous.

[255] Not knowing that although Metal Edge told me that this guy was a big deal, he was just a musician.

[256] But to a 20 -year -old from Winnipeg's like, oh, my God.

[257] I'm going to be in a huge fucking band.

[258] So I go and I meet him.

[259] We go to his house in Woodland Hills.

[260] Actually, I've been here four times.

[261] There was that time.

[262] Then I flew home to Winnipeg and they flew me back down because they were going to get me singing in their band.

[263] I'm like 20 years old.

[264] This guy's like famous to me, right?

[265] So I get down there and that shit is not all that organized.

[266] You know what I mean?

[267] Like something's not making a lot of sense.

[268] And then around day two, I figured out, okay, it's because everyone's on heroin.

[269] And it started, we had smoked some pot, which in Winnipeg, in Manitoba, We called that dope.

[270] Do you want to smoke some dope?

[271] It's like, sure.

[272] It was like, so he goes, do you do dope?

[273] I'm like, yeah, I just smoked it with you like 20 minutes ago.

[274] He goes, no. And then before I knew it, he'd injected me with heroin.

[275] Like a conversation sort of happened.

[276] I was trying to be a not super uncool, but like not saying yes, I want to do heroin.

[277] And then four days went by, like literally just shooting up for four days.

[278] And then I just about missed my plane home.

[279] And so I had a girl and a home and a job.

[280] and all those kinds of things and I'm kind of looking at like the plane ticket and I know it's like okay if I get a cab in the next two hours I'll get the plane I'll get home or whatever and he's like well just you know and you're not even thinking it's like you're barely even there and somewhere along the line I was just like don't worry about it just fine you don't have to get on the plane I probably got $100 to my name and if I didn't get on that plane I'd have no job no girl I'd be a heroin addict with no money in Woodland Hills with a guy who doesn't have his shit together.

[281] I think in the years since he's got his shit together.

[282] I haven't seen him since then.

[283] And I made myself go and I was sick for two or three days.

[284] And I realized like literally that second in time, if I don't convince myself to get on that plane, my whole life is fucking ruined.

[285] Whoa.

[286] Yeah.

[287] Like I just so vividly remember talking my, trying to talk myself and to just, fuck it, stay here, don't worry about it.

[288] And then I would think to myself, well, what are you going to do?

[289] When are you going to get home?

[290] Don't fuck worry about a man and I just forced my and I was literally convincing myself don't bother don't worry it's not a big deal but it was obviously a big deal and I got home I was sick for two days and I've never taken an opiate or any kind of painkiller ever again so you were sick like hungover yeah a violent form of it was it withdrawals probably right probably like you'd have to talk to you know in the course of playing in music I've met lots of people who have opiate problems And they would say, oh, man, four days, that's nothing.

[291] But to a person who, you know, to a person who was a normal person, and then all of a sudden they were doing drugs for four days, it probably was, yeah, violent withdrawal.

[292] So it was very sick.

[293] And I knew that day, it's like I'm just never going to take any kind of narcotic or painkiller like that ever again.

[294] Wow.

[295] So that was the second last time I was in Woodland Hills.

[296] Well, the idea that you could just become that person like that, You just meet the wrong person.

[297] And hey, man, you want to do some dope?

[298] Yeah, we just did dope.

[299] Oh, b -dang!

[300] All of a sudden, you're on heroin.

[301] Yeah, and there's lots of those little moments in everybody's life.

[302] Yeah.

[303] You know?

[304] That's a big one.

[305] That's a big one.

[306] But you don't know when they are or where they are or how they start.

[307] You're just suddenly, you know what I mean?

[308] Many less as we get older.

[309] We start to get a little smarter.

[310] You recognize big risks earlier on.

[311] down the road as you get all there.

[312] A life experience helps you with that shit.

[313] But yeah, that's...

[314] I was thinking that on the way here today.

[315] I was like, oh, yeah.

[316] But, I mean, that's 25, 26 years ago.

[317] So did you ever talk to that guy again?

[318] We were in touch about maybe still putting this band together, and then he was clearly, you know, had addiction issues.

[319] I followed him a little bit after.

[320] He had a reality show.

[321] He's from Finland, and he's a pretty big rock star in Finland.

[322] And he and his wife, who was there at the time, That was the woman that I met.

[323] They had a reality show with, you know, kind of like what Ozzy did, but with them.

[324] Whoa.

[325] Finland.

[326] Yeah, Finland.

[327] How many people are in Finland?

[328] Probably about half as many as Canada would be my guess, which about $30 million.

[329] So 15 or $20 million, maybe.

[330] And this guys are just a big rock star over there?

[331] I think so.

[332] I mean, it's, the whole music world is such a different life to me now.

[333] Like, I've been so deeply embedded in fighting for the last decade.

[334] Like, I don't know about much else.

[335] He could be the president of Finland right now for all I know Like I just don't consume a lot of other things You know what's shocking to me I have a lot of friends now that are musicians That are doing really well And not making much money Yeah It's fucking it's eerie It's it's eerie when you find out That these guys who you think would be ballers Are like kind of struggling Yeah that that business is Crazy dead It's not just but the touring is what I don't understand It's like how come they're not making all this money from touring But I guess it's like a comic has a much lower overhead.

[336] Comics just, we don't need anything.

[337] Just turn the microphone on and we're good.

[338] They need support.

[339] They have all these other people that are there.

[340] You know, they have people that carry their stuff, roadies, sound people.

[341] Lights, rigs.

[342] Yeah.

[343] They have other people in the band, obviously.

[344] When we went and saw you at Ka there, that was awesome too, by the way.

[345] Oh, that was fun, the Ka -theater at the MGM.

[346] Doing that again next month.

[347] Yeah, cool.

[348] This is the shit.

[349] So something like that.

[350] Do you have anybody else?

[351] Like, is there a sound guy?

[352] Is it the house guy?

[353] Like, do you have a house guy?

[354] Yeah, they just have to turn the mic off.

[355] That's amazing.

[356] Yeah.

[357] Well, it's just so low maintenance being a comedian.

[358] You just have to, you know, sell tickets, and you get there and you say, hi, and you just go do your act.

[359] Except for the 30 years of developing your act and building it and having, you know, the insight to understanding how people laugh and all that kind of stuff.

[360] Yeah, you're sort of developing your ability to make an act.

[361] act itself is like it lives for about two years and then it dies then you have to like let it go like you you build it up you put it on something put it on some sort of a special or a CD or something like that and then you got abandoned it and then you move on to the next two hours and in those two years I'm going to pull this back to fighting because everything gets pulled back to fighting I've been trying to just go you don't have to talk about fighting all the time I've been telling myself that outside of work regularly, actively trying to find other things to know about or learn about.

[362] But you build like structures around something, right?

[363] So Johnny Hendricks goes to fight Stephen Thompson.

[364] Yeah.

[365] His whole world has been built like that act for years.

[366] He built that thing and structures were built around how to perform that act that way.

[367] And then all of a sudden it's just dated.

[368] It's just not going to work in this setting.

[369] Yeah, it's a completely dated when you're dealing with there's two things that Wonderboy did in that fight that you just didn't see up until he came around and one big one was the front leg attacks his front leg side kick and front leg roundhouse kick to the face you see he hit Johnny with a front leg sidekick to the body you can see it really shook Johnny and then immediately afterwards he goes high and hits him with the front leg roundhouse kick right in the chin and he's like what in the fuck like this guy can do some shit with his feet that I'm just not geared up for i'm not it isn't he didn't have the timing for it's it's johnny was in a gym boxing with boxers yeah lots and lots of boxers his hands are great he's got it gets moving around as long as guys stand in front of them and it's like that literally what stephen thompson did and what you're the really exciting thing you're seeing right now is this weird moment where it's like you're a great wrestler so what am i need to i got to go learn to wrestle You don't have to fucking learn to wrestle We're going to do that anyways We've got to learn to make it not about wrestling We got to make it so I mean MMA developed by finding the answer To the thing And somewhere all of us Every coach every one of us Five years ago Seven years ago We were like Well that's it It's boxing wrestling Brazilian Jiu Jitsu This cage work This is how fighting is done That's it We're fucking way wrong So when we think that We start building a structure, gym environment, curriculums, how we train, and that thing gets more ingrained and complicated, and you go to the gym, you work these four or five things, and some guy over here is working other stuff.

[370] And our whole gym is like that, and all our training partners are like that, and we're working the mixed martial arts curriculum.

[371] But some other guy isn't.

[372] And when he develops that thing, we're not prepared for it.

[373] We're just not prepared for it.

[374] Yeah, sport karate.

[375] That sport karate blitz.

[376] That's something that Thompson can do, but also he came from a kickboxing background.

[377] So he's got the sport karate ability to leap in, sort of like Raymond Daniels who fights in glory.

[378] He's got that leap in attack ability that's very difficult to deal with if you don't have that kind of footwork.

[379] And then on top of that, he can string together beautiful hand combinations.

[380] So he'll slide in, blitz you with four or five beautiful hand combinations and then slide away and then kick you in the stomach as he's sliding away.

[381] And you're like, Jesus Christ.

[382] Like, you can see the bewildered look on Johnny's face in that fight.

[383] Yeah, and he's a brilliant fighter.

[384] He was the champ.

[385] He was a champ.

[386] He's a tough guy, but Johnny's got that style where he'll stand like Johnny and Robbie.

[387] He stood in front of each other.

[388] Yeah.

[389] And you're just not going to find that with Wonderboy.

[390] He's just not there.

[391] That's what this guy's trying to.

[392] That's the game he's going to try to play.

[393] This guy, he's holding up a plastic cell.

[394] Is it plastic cell?

[395] They sent us a Connor McGregor doll.

[396] Yeah, it's all stumpy and like, angry.

[397] The same guys who sent the Biggie doll.

[398] They sent us a Connor McGregor and Jamie's got a Tupac over there.

[399] There's a Bruce Lee for Joey Diaz.

[400] That's cool.

[401] But that's what he'll try to do.

[402] But what he can do with his feet is not nearly at the level that Stephen Thompson is.

[403] Stephen Thompson's doing some shit with his feet.

[404] The way he's throwing kicks, they're deadly.

[405] I mean, he's one of the best kickboxers that America's really ever produced.

[406] That's amazing.

[407] 57 and 0 is a kickboxer.

[408] Yeah.

[409] And then if you, so then you go and train with Wydman, right?

[410] And Wydenman roughs you up.

[411] And Wyden's work ethic and the whole thing rubs off on you and you just start getting familiar with it.

[412] And it is, yeah, I can defend takedowns.

[413] But more importantly, we ain't fucking wrestling.

[414] We're not going to wrestle.

[415] And it seems him, Cruz, Cruz is a fucking absolute genius.

[416] All these guys, even Demetrius and Matt Hume, they play this game.

[417] So we're sitting here.

[418] And like, can we, we can't wrestle.

[419] from here right so for you to get to me you have to travel through space as you move forward two feet i move back two feet you move that way two feet and you play this game where we keep the space forever and i just keep that space as long as you want me i'm making that space and when the space is there either you're going to get so lulled into it that i can dart in and wonder boy's weapons are as kicks but some guys will do with their hands and dart in and hit you or you start chasing me you chase me intercept you and fuck you up and it's just so logical and you're looking at it now and just the way that the karate guys had to go learn to wrestle or did they they had to learn to not wrestle to make it not about wrestling as much as possible the johnny hendricks the matt hughes style of fighter they've got to figure this out you have to figure it out well you know what happened was he learned how to get comfortable standing up where he didn't worry about being taken down all the And then you got to see what he's really capable of with his striking.

[420] Because you look at his earlier fights, he was a little more tight because he was worried about being taken down.

[421] So all that takedown defense, I mean, he always had the great footwork.

[422] But now he also has a solution if you do grab him.

[423] So when guys grab him, he's not out of water.

[424] He knows what to do.

[425] He can break free again.

[426] And it is way harder to take someone down when they're not trying to wrestle with you.

[427] If someone's trying to be aggressive and attack, you can counter.

[428] and you can take advantage of openings that they leave.

[429] But when someone is just being defensive, like if jiu -jitsu, if you roll with someone, it's very hard to tap someone who's just being defensive.

[430] They're not trying to attack.

[431] It's when they open up and they go after you, that's when you can get them.

[432] That's when they leave openings.

[433] And I think the same thing with wrestling.

[434] These guys, like, Merkel Krocop was a great example.

[435] When he first started fighting in pride, he took, you know, just like a year or so.

[436] And all of a sudden he had takedown defense figured out and everybody was fucked, because then you got to stand with this guy, and he was one of the best examples of a high -level kickboxer that entered it to MMA because he was always a one -shot explosive striker, whereas a guy like Ernesto Hust was a combination fighter, a guy who threw beautiful, technically perfect combinations, but never really like blitzed in and exploded.

[437] And it seems like the blitz is a big part of MMA fighting.

[438] It's not, I mean, the technical striking, for sure is important but I think you've got to be able to make that mark quickly especially with those little gloves yeah and the footwork if it gets me over gets you over here that I have to take one step to center back into you then you blitz me there that's what Dominic's doing for the last like number of years and then he started now you get so good at that thing you can't quite figure out how to even like Anthony Johnson is so good at staying in balance to hit you wherever you are he's in balance to hit you because Henry Hooft looked at him and was like what's the key to this guy just put him in a place where he can always hit like put him in a place where he can deliver with power he's really good at that small little steps you know and but Dominic Cruz could dance all around Dominic Cruz can move it so that he has to step back to hit him that's when he'll get in then he gets so good at that one thing he just starts camouflaging with other things now you don't know when it's coming now maybe you hesitate oh when you hesitate he has an option.

[439] When you chase, he has more options.

[440] You think it's better to stay still, so you do.

[441] Then you get beat up.

[442] So then you think I better get after him.

[443] And then when you do, you get intercepted.

[444] And that whole thing must become so frustrating.

[445] You know, so mentally frustrating.

[446] Then you're like, I got to take this guy down.

[447] And in some cases, that's what they're waiting for, you know?

[448] Hit you on the way in.

[449] It's just, that game is so, it's, it feels like the big difference now.

[450] If you can't do that, if I can't do that and you can, Yeah.

[451] What the fuck am I going to do?

[452] I have to fight panic.

[453] That was Ali in his youth, you know, when Ali was young, before they took away his title, and he was kicked out of boxing for three years, and then he came back and he was much more flat -footed.

[454] But the early days, when you would watch Ali fight guys, he would be able to move away from them and then slide back in and hit them.

[455] And they really didn't have a solution to that.

[456] And when you don't have a solution to that, it means you're getting hit and you're not being able to hit the other guy.

[457] Yeah, and just think of that.

[458] you know you can be ready yourself for that you're prepared you know it's a challenge but you've been working on answers like i thought for sure duane uh ludwig with tj they would have worked on like situational things and maybe they did it's like when he's here we're either going to option a or b we know these are some of his choices big broad strokes answers and they worked sometimes i mean you look back in that fight i thought dominic won but tj had the moments where he had the biggest shots or the cleanest shots there were It was only half a dozen of them in 25 minutes, but you saw that was the answer.

[459] But it must be incredibly frustrating to be in there.

[460] You're mentally prepared for it.

[461] You got the answers.

[462] And as the minutes are clicking away, you're like, oh, shit, it's true.

[463] Someone lied to me. That feeling must be the worst.

[464] When you're in there, you're like, oh, shit, they lied to me. What do you mean by they lied?

[465] There was this, I mentioned Anthony Johnson.

[466] So, Phil Davis is like, I'm a huge fan of Phil Davis.

[467] I love Phil Davis.

[468] He was fighting Anthony Johnson.

[469] and he went for that first takedown and you go back and you look the look on his face when he fails that takedown is like this is not what I was told it was going to be maybe somebody lied to me sounds like a funny way to say it but this is not how it was supposed to go this is not holy fuck Anthony Johnson someone said I was going to be able to take him down I can't and that look on his face like that changes everything the whole fight now from this moment that this big dude stopped my takedown shook it off and kind of looked at me now the whole fight is nothing like I had laid it out.

[470] Yeah, I think if Dominic, I think when you watch the T .J. fight, like, the big moments that T .J. had, I think what Dwayne was trying to get him to do more was not load up and that he was really trying to knock Dominic out.

[471] I mean, that's really what he wanted to do.

[472] I think maybe if he just concentrated more on the leg kicks, I mean, he had that one leg where it turned out that Dominic had had like a serious injury with his foot like planter fasciitis and it torn up that yeah have you what is it like oh god so I actually had it after a fight my last fight was my best performance ever and and it went great and that fight training going up to it the guy was a very good striker compared to me and he thought I was going to take him down that he assumed we knew that he knew that was what I was going to do Only that wasn't what I was going to do.

[473] I was going to put him against the cage and hold him there and beat him up there until he got tired and I could find a way.

[474] But we were not planning to take him down.

[475] We were planning to put him against the cage.

[476] But all that leverage, like all that driving off the foot against the cage, it hurt my foot.

[477] And then we went, my wife and I went on vacation right after.

[478] And we walked nonstop the first day that we were there, just nonstop.

[479] And the next day, the fasciitis happened.

[480] And it feels literally like you can't even put weight on your foot.

[481] Like it's so inflamed and you don't know what it is like did you damage it?

[482] Is it just hurt?

[483] And it hurt for months and months and months after.

[484] And just yoga actually helped it.

[485] Really?

[486] Yeah.

[487] Strengthening the foot and the ankle.

[488] Yeah, yoga's one of the things that I found when I started getting in it was how much my feet hurt.

[489] Yeah?

[490] Yeah, because I was like, my feet are weak, I guess.

[491] Yeah, yeah.

[492] Because you're big and your feet and ankles are designed to do the stuff that you do to them.

[493] And now you're asking them to do all this other stuff.

[494] I was surprised because I felt like, well, I do so much barefoot.

[495] I lift weights barefoot.

[496] I kick the bag.

[497] Everything's barefoot.

[498] I was like, this is not going to be hard to just stand in my feet and hold poses.

[499] But it's pretty hard.

[500] For like the first couple months, I would have like some serious foot pain in certain positions.

[501] And then now they're stronger.

[502] Yeah, now it's much better.

[503] But still, that's probably my weakest part is my balance, like balancing my foot there.

[504] I saw when you had Carlos and his movement guy on him.

[505] And that was one of the things they talked about.

[506] It's one of the things that you know, I'll talks about too, is that one of the biggest weaknesses in our whole chain for most of us is our feet and our ankles.

[507] That's Nick Curzon's number one thing.

[508] When I said, what's the number one thing that you like to work on with fighters is, like, foot strength?

[509] Wow.

[510] It's like the number one thing that guys have that they need to improve.

[511] Well, mine just fully inflamed for a long time after that fight and just mistreatment, and they were already weak.

[512] So what do you do for that?

[513] I literally, I was in Mexico, and I would have to, like, sit against, lean on my wife to get to the bar to drink some tequila so that it would hurt a little less so I could get to the pool where it didn't hurt as much because you had water buoying you.

[514] So were you like taking painkillers or anti -inflammatory?

[515] No painkill since the last hour was.

[516] No opiates.

[517] But like Advil or anything?

[518] Yeah, Advil.

[519] I literally couldn't walk for three days.

[520] Like I'm not joking.

[521] I would lean on her to get to the bar to have some tequila so that we can see.

[522] So what it is the fascia on the bottom of the foot that separates?

[523] Is that what it is?

[524] Yeah, separates.

[525] flames and yeah we got it the planter fascia yeah and I guess it affects people in different ways like if it's if it's over you know if it shortens it gets hard and it shortens that hurts your foot in other ways it's just a weird kind of spot we're walking on that all day all the time climbing and fighting and running and whatever things we do and that thing right there is on the bottom I mean you got to figure that's going to take some abuse in your life they also say a big issue is shoes the way the the the the padding that we have on shoes, the extra, like, the runner's padding, and that you're really supposed to have, like, the most minimal amount of protection from the environment as possible, just a thin, minimalist type of a shoe.

[526] That allows us to use our feet.

[527] The thing we got is just a big lump on it, you know, so you don't get to use it.

[528] But when you train Taekwondo growing up, like, martial arts for kids and teenagers and stuff, man, it's just going to make everything better.

[529] Well, definitely flexibility.

[530] Yeah.

[531] I'm still really flexible at 48.

[532] I mean, it's because I never stopped doing it, but it's also because I started doing it before my body grew up.

[533] Right.

[534] You know?

[535] But what they're saying now is that like Navy SEALs that are learning, they're going through training and everything with those toe shoes.

[536] Yeah.

[537] They're trying to stop them from wearing those toe shoes because so many guys, their feet are not strong enough to run and do all these exercises in those things because they're used to wearing like your basic running shoe with a thick heel.

[538] And if you ever, people were listening to this, I think there's a TED talk about it where they went over how someone had created one of those running shoes with the thick heel area.

[539] And what it had done is really essentially changed the way people run.

[540] It changed their gate.

[541] And it made people run heel first, which is totally unnatural.

[542] You're supposed to run like ball the foot first and your foot's supposed to absorb the energy.

[543] And when you do that, your foot acts as sort of like a spring and it slows you down and decelerates you.

[544] And that's how you're supposed to run.

[545] You push off that and you run with that.

[546] If you do that, your foot will be very strong and you could run long distances and your foot will stay healthy.

[547] But if you're used to using those running shoes with the big heel, you go heel down first.

[548] You don't have that strength in your foot.

[549] And you can get really fucking injured if you try to do the same amount of miles and the same intense workout with like a toe shoe or something like that.

[550] Because your feet are just not designed for it yet or, you know, conditioned for it rather.

[551] The funny thing, like when, you know, they're telling them not to use these shoes because their feet aren't strong enough.

[552] But if they use the shoes, their feet will become strong enough.

[553] Yeah, but they want them to go through some pretty fucking grueling, rigorous soul -searching, you know, workouts.

[554] And we talked about, I was hurt, I did yoga, it fixed it.

[555] You did yoga, it hurt, now it's better.

[556] Like, you have to go through a certain amount of hurt.

[557] You have to go through a certain amount of, you know, challenge to repair it, you know.

[558] But it strikes me so strange when you think about some things that we, that humans do, something as small or big is going, well, going to wear these shoes changes everything not only how we are our future the way like these little things that we do as as people you don't you never you're never able to project the good and the bad outcomes of them in the future you just have to deal with them when they have yeah i'm i'm a big fan um when it comes to like minimalist footwear i'm a big fan of wearing like real i work out with uh either barefoot or these i have these new balances yeah blue they're just like a slipper yeah i have the They're black, but they're like this little thin thing.

[559] Well, I wear the toe shoes, but goddamn people give you a hard time with the toes.

[560] Yeah, me too.

[561] They're so brutal.

[562] I have those new balanced ones.

[563] I do still do a lot of power lifting.

[564] I love power lifting.

[565] I just love it.

[566] Yeah.

[567] I try to do yoga and martial arts and offset, but I love heavy lifting.

[568] And dead lifts, you can't use padding.

[569] You're going to lose force.

[570] You know, you have to use some time.

[571] I use Nike's usually, or I'll use the new balance ones, but not Nike's rather.

[572] Converse, All -Star, like these things, the chucks.

[573] Oh, yeah.

[574] These are my favorite, because they're just flat.

[575] They're flat, and there's very thin, and you can kind of feed.

[576] They're real flexible, you know, like, if you climb something with these things, they, like, bend and give.

[577] It's not, like, a rigid thing, you know?

[578] Have you ever done a powerlifting meet?

[579] A meat?

[580] Yeah.

[581] It's super fun, man. What do you do?

[582] You go and compete?

[583] Yeah, you compete in powerlifting?

[584] Yeah.

[585] I won my, I won the nationals at my age and weight last year.

[586] Yeah, I trained at this place.

[587] How much do you, what do you lift in?

[588] How much you lift in?

[589] I would weigh about 155 and I'll deadlift maybe like 360.

[590] Jesus, that's a lot of weight.

[591] And then my bench is maybe 2 .30, 240.

[592] Which doesn't sound like a lot of weight to people who go to the gym and just throw it around.

[593] For 155, that's a lot of weight.

[594] But a power lifting, like a regulation bench press, you bring it down.

[595] It's got to stop all movement and you wait for the command to push.

[596] So it's...

[597] How long do you wait?

[598] Until all movement is stopped.

[599] It might be one second, could be two, could be three.

[600] And they say go.

[601] They say press.

[602] So you can't bounce it off your chest.

[603] Stop all movement and press from that spot.

[604] But I train at this place.

[605] I love it.

[606] I just, I love it.

[607] And in Toronto, my wife comes now too.

[608] And I brought her at first because she always wanted me to cancel.

[609] Because I was going in the morning.

[610] She's like, why don't we just go get for breakfast or something?

[611] Why do you have to go to the gym tomorrow?

[612] So then I just started.

[613] She's cool, man. She's a tempteress.

[614] She's super cool.

[615] But I was just like, she's, you know, she's always like, oh, just skip one.

[616] So I got her going.

[617] Now she loves it, too, but tons of women power lift now.

[618] Really?

[619] Yeah, yeah.

[620] And it shouldn't be the only thing that you do because weight lifting, you mentioned it.

[621] You lifted weights all your life, and all of a sudden you did yoga and it added so much.

[622] But if you're lifting weights and doing movement and doing yoga and doing flexibility stuff, but that's hard to do.

[623] Yeah.

[624] That goes right back to what we said.

[625] You got to work out.

[626] you got to eat good and you got to sleep, or else you won't have a good life.

[627] Well, how do I have, most people don't have the time to do all the different things you would need to do.

[628] So one of the most frustrating things about people that get into Jiu -Jitsu is they just do Jiu -Jitsu.

[629] And I'm always like, man, you really should lift some weights, especially if you're getting older.

[630] Like, it's one of the most important things to preserve the joints, like keeping muscle tissue strong and healthy and making sure that you've got good muscle density that protect those joints.

[631] because, you know, you're engaging in a form of combat on a regular basis, and you're doing no strengthening other than that combat.

[632] So weird people, when you go to the gym, you see the Muay Thai guys and they're standing around, they're moving and stuff, the jiu -jitsu guys are sitting around chatting, right?

[633] So that mood makes you feel like it's not combat, and then you do jiu -jitsu, and it's fucking fighting, you know?

[634] It's physically fighting, your joints are fighting, and I think the mood of it makes it feel like, ah, you know, It's a bit of a stoner sport in some ways.

[635] Guys just chill out and they're wearing the pajamas hanging out, but it's fighting.

[636] Yeah, if you're getting caught in things, you know, just trying to fight out of them or trying to not tap, you put tremendous amount of pressure on your joints.

[637] Put tremendous amount of pressure on your neck, on your back.

[638] Always a lot of pressure on your back to try to get out of situations.

[639] You're contorting yourself often, you know, and you really need to be strong in those areas.

[640] And flexible.

[641] Flexible's a big one.

[642] It's very important.

[643] I took, first time I met Eddie.

[644] I took his seminar and Eddie's got a room full of people and I think I maybe had heard him say this before in a video or something and people are stretching and he says you got to work on that and somebody said well this is as flexible as I am and he's like that is a very North American line of thinking no other place where people go this is as flexible as I am they'd say this is as flexible as I am right now if I work at it I will become more flexible like everything in life but for some reason we have these limited beliefs you know it's like if do you know how to play piano no no but you could learn how to play piano if it was important to you yeah and then my fingers work yeah and in six weeks you'd be a better piano player than you are today yes and in three years you'd be a way better piano player that's true of every single thing in life and and one of the reasons you know I learn stuff from from studying fighters like I learned stuff about life lots of stuff but one of those big ones is that growth mindset the idea that if we put in time on anything it'll get better and the work itself is the point that thing for some if if a kid has that their whole life is better if any and we can have it at 40 or 50 or at 60 the idea that whatever I am is not what I am it's what I am today but I can improve those things I love that that's a great attitude that's a great way to say it whatever I am is what I am today yeah it's like I mean people I talk about this guy.

[645] I like this little thing.

[646] This thing's pretty cool.

[647] A little Conner.

[648] Yeah.

[649] I talk about that guy a lot.

[650] And people, we were talking about people hating sometimes people that they see on TV.

[651] Some people hate this guy.

[652] Of course they hate Conner.

[653] He talks a lot of shit.

[654] He's super successful.

[655] Yeah, for sure.

[656] You put it perfectly.

[657] But the thing that guy has is that insane growth mindset.

[658] Oh, yeah.

[659] It's, to him, anything is possible.

[660] I believe anything.

[661] is possible, but if you win the 155 belt, okay, you go fight for, fight Robbie, okay, if you won that, what are you going to fight Rockhold and then, you know, John Jones?

[662] There are limits, you know what I mean?

[663] There are fucking limits.

[664] But he actually believes there are none, and that belief he's better at everything than he was yesterday.

[665] And you wait until Rockhold kicks him.

[666] You realize there's a difference.

[667] Yeah.

[668] But that's what I'm saying.

[669] There's got to be a point.

[670] But that belief that there is no point, that belief that there is no limit whatsoever is incredibly powerful when it's put together with a drive of a work ethic, with an insane work ethic.

[671] That is a powerful thing.

[672] Well, it's interesting, too, because with fighters, when they're in camp, most of the time you're preparing for a specific opponent, you're not really picking up new skills.

[673] The way they really pick up skills is by training and taking chances and going outside their comfort zone, which is really not something you want to do while you're conditioning yourself for a fight.

[674] So a lot of times when guys are going back to back to back and they're fighting a lot, they're not really improving much.

[675] What they're doing is just they're improving their ability to compete because they're getting more comfortable because they're competing a lot.

[676] They're getting relaxed.

[677] They're in great shape.

[678] And they're getting used to the feeling of being in competition.

[679] But, man, there's not a lot of time to take some time to just.

[680] go over new stuff to learn new things, to add new weapons.

[681] Well, when I talk to him and his coach, Kavanaugh, who I only spoke to briefly, I actually tried to contact him to ask him if I could pick his mind a bit before doing this breakdown.

[682] I took it as a big compliment that he's like, no, no, I'll maybe chat with you after.

[683] Like that if he gave me something, I might pass it on.

[684] I took it as a compliment.

[685] And I do a podcast, the mentality of combat sports.

[686] And I do it with my very good friend, David Mullins.

[687] Is it on iTunes?

[688] No, it is or will be We're not super on top of that How long have you been doing it?

[689] We've been doing it for a year What the fuck?

[690] It's on iTunes, man It's on YouTube It's on YouTube, it's on YouTube, yeah But it either has been on iTunes for a few months Or it's in the process We got a guy who does that But so, and I've been doing it with him And he is part of the SBG team He's the straight blast jam Yeah, the combat The sports psychology coach of the team And when I ask him about Connor, and we're very good friends, but when I ask him about Connor, he says Connor is his own coach.

[691] But I know at the same time when you work with the coach, he's his own mental coach, he's on his own journey.

[692] And not that he doesn't want information from David, but he wants it from 50 sources.

[693] He's consuming, consuming like philosophy and ideas of how to improve and ideas of what it is to be your authentic self, peak performance, all that kind of stuff, constantly consuming.

[694] but so my but my inside info that i get from david working with them he's like they don't train for really for an opponent ever really they the opponent is he's not a person he is a collection of skills and attributes and a body type and that's it and we're training to get better every day the goal is to be better not to train and and why is that a good thing among the millions of reasons josie alde's out chadmendez is in if you spent all that time I'm training for Jose Aldo and only Jose Aldo.

[695] Oh, my God, Chad Mendes is in, questions, doubts, concerns, what are we doing, game plan.

[696] Instead, he was like, it doesn't matter who it is.

[697] Wow.

[698] And they train to get better every single day in everything.

[699] Wow.

[700] And that's a great mindset if you can pull it off.

[701] He's pulling it off.

[702] He is pulling it off right now.

[703] I wonder how much of what he's doing, what he's able to do is his own unique physical gifts.

[704] the fact that he's been so successful so far with this strategy and also the people that he's training with he's got like fantastic training partners great grappling with Gunner Nelson great coaching I wonder how what I wonder if that is the way to do it because I wonder is there going to come a time where he faces another guy like him like a guy that on that level and maybe it's Hafeld Dosangos maybe it is you know I just sent the breakdown in and the Craig at the UFC said it's good to go so they'll release it when their digital department does stuff so it's coming out in the next day or two your breakdowns are fucking awesome man I really really love them I love doing them I can tell one eight to 10 days but that's of work on it the ideas came over the last years like just but how long is the piece it's four minutes let's play it can we play no we can't play it I know we can't Fuckers.

[705] It's, I know I've already thanked you, but thank you for making that happen.

[706] Oh, please.

[707] My pleasure.

[708] My pleasure.

[709] When you recommended my stuff to Dana, I flew down to the office with him and Craig, and Dana and I were literally standing up acting out stuff while we were talking.

[710] It was really, really, really exciting and cool.

[711] And it is cool to be doing that for the UFC.

[712] Oh, it's awesome to have you, man. Yeah, I'm really excited.

[713] Yeah, well, when you first started doing it, and we became friends and I would watch your stuff, you know, just immediately was saying, like, why, this guy should be doing this for the UFC?

[714] Like, I mean, your stuff is awesome.

[715] Thank you.

[716] You put so much thought into it.

[717] There's so much.

[718] And you can get so much out of it as a fan.

[719] As someone is like, look, this fight is goddamn epic.

[720] This Connor McGregor, Hafeel Dosangelo's fight is an epic super fight.

[721] It's two champions in their prime.

[722] One of them coming off of a stunning 13 second knockout to win the title.

[723] The other one coming off of a brutal beatdown of one of the most popular contenders.

[724] I mean, Dosangos looks like a goddamn.

[725] murderer and Connor looks like a freak he's like just these two guys it's perfect it's a perfect fight so to get some technical insight and to get a view into what your thoughts are on footwork and movement and what dosangos could possibly do to mitigate some of that footwork what's going to happen if Connor gets on his back the way Mendez got him on his back because dosangos is a lot bigger a lot stronger and dangerous as fuck with his submissions yeah Chad's never really submitted people.

[726] That guillotine, but Connor used that threat to get up.

[727] But, D'S AIAS is...

[728] Chad was two weeks in for that fight.

[729] Plus all the media obligations.

[730] There's no way a guy who's got a wrestling heavy strategy like Chad does.

[731] You're not going to be conditioned enough to go five rounds with two weeks.

[732] He had to knock him out.

[733] And so he went in hard and early.

[734] He pushed all his chips in.

[735] Connor's got a chin that's made out of some fucking the same shit that Wolverine's bones are made out of.

[736] Adamantium.

[737] Oh, my God.

[738] I've never seen anybody take a Chad men as punched to the face like that.

[739] And he's, he was getting hit with the right hand quite a long.

[740] He was getting hit with it.

[741] Whether or not now, I mean, Dosanos is a southpaw, too.

[742] So it changes things.

[743] And he has, he knocked out Porreier, who was a south paw, and I think Brando's a southpaw, so he has dealt with him.

[744] But on the other hand, Dosanos took out Ben Henderson, is a south paw, pettish switches.

[745] Jason High was a southpaw.

[746] Like, he's faced plenty of them.

[747] He's a beast, man. It's interesting.

[748] but breaking that stuff down when I looked at it so my real goal is to make to try to influence the way people watch fighting and to make them see it the way that I see it that's the actual goal the goal is that I see this crazy unbelievable stuff happening underneath some of the surface and I want to entertain people long enough that I can trick them into learning some of it and that's that's the plan and trick them into learning that's funny you just want to entertain them make sure they're having a good time and at the end of it they are walking around going yeah and by the way that kick works this way and they do and because if you go and you just stand there and you like have a diagram and you know i think that was there was always outside of like people were learning fighting from your commentary and then there wouldn't be another show so then they'd have to come back and they'd learn during the fights which is great i mean that was your you did more to educate people about fighting than any person ever probably i mean i can't think off the top of my head anybody who has contributed more knowledge of fighting.

[749] And it was done.

[750] You're entertaining.

[751] You're having fun.

[752] They love your voice.

[753] So that was the learning.

[754] But then there's not another fight now for a few weeks.

[755] We should learn some shit in the meantime.

[756] And we should get you prepared.

[757] So you don't have to teach them everything about this fight in the fight while calling the fight and making shit's entertaining.

[758] We've got to get you prepped with some knowledge.

[759] Well, there's never been a time like this before where you could get so many different breakdowns.

[760] It's like the Gracie breakdowns of submissions that Henner and Huron do, Lawrence Kenshin stuff, Jack Slack stuff.

[761] There's so much good stuff.

[762] Who's the guy that Kenny was plagiarizing?

[763] Yeah, I forget his name off the top of my head.

[764] Yeah, that was a weird situation.

[765] Did you talk about that?

[766] Did you talk about that much?

[767] Because you were a guy who, when that happened in comedy, you were not having that.

[768] No, not really.

[769] But it wasn't good.

[770] You know, what Kenny's take on it is that Kenny, he writes a lot of notes and he's been writing notes for you.

[771] years and years and that's uh that's what happened he just failed to a tribute which you know maybe the case I don't know yeah yeah but I like the fact that uh we found out though Lee Wiley that's right yeah he does great stuff there's a lot of really good Willie pep video that's right excellent yeah it was very good uh there's a lot and when I was started to do analysis there wasn't a lot and I was hoping now just like when you started doing a podcast have you had hundreds of people say I started a podcast yeah and just like I get guys emailing me, hey, I'm doing analysis.

[772] And I think, and I wasn't the guy who started it.

[773] I can't take any credit for that.

[774] But when people did it excitedly, people were like, oh shit, fighting is way more interesting than just, I mean, the real thing that kind of would bother me is there wasn't, you know, a fight would happen, this awesome stuff would happen, crazy things that had, you know, change the way that you understood how people moved and what happened when trained athletes fought each other.

[775] And it meant something to the next time that you'd fight the way they move, all that stuff.

[776] And people would be like, all right, he got it done at two minutes of the fifth, two minutes of the third round.

[777] What's next for this guy?

[778] Which is, that's a great conversation too.

[779] Or what does this mean for the title rankings?

[780] Or, you know, who are you going to call out?

[781] It was instantly looking ahead.

[782] Fighting immediately was like, well, what's the next fight and how's it going to go down?

[783] No amount of like, what does it mean?

[784] What happened?

[785] I mean, we're taking human beings at the highest level of training and in a global experiment to figure out what is the ultimate way that human beings can do combat.

[786] And we're putting them there at personal risk to themselves for our entertainment.

[787] And brilliant shit happens.

[788] We can't just move on.

[789] We can't just go, oh, well, you know, Johnny won or GSP one or whatever.

[790] Well, what's his next fight?

[791] We got to honor that fight.

[792] We got to honor the fact that these guys are giving that stuff.

[793] Well, I think we both agree that the fighters of today are the greatest fighters ever.

[794] And the audience is far more knowledgeable today than they've ever been before.

[795] So when we're watching all these breakdowns and all these different technique videos, like, you have so much more access to mix martial arts knowledge.

[796] It's an incredible, like, you ever follow any of those BJJ video ones on Instagram, like viral BJJ?

[797] Holy shit, man. Some of those fucking moves, like, I've never seen those.

[798] I've been doing jiu -jitsu for 22 years I've ever seen some of those moves.

[799] It's incredible.

[800] Some of these guys have like some sick fucking transitions, man. Amazing stuff.

[801] Yeah, jiu -jitsu is a whole other fascinating world of its own right now.

[802] But yeah, I just love now that it's like it isn't just the outcome or the storyline around it or the shit talking.

[803] People are interested in the fight, like the thing that's happening when these geniuses are actually moving.

[804] That just makes me, I'm glad that's happening.

[805] I'm so glad that's happening.

[806] happening you know and because that happens in other sports too eventually at first just got to see home runs man we're just going to sit around until the home runs happened or like what if you're in football people who love football didn't understand they were just bored another tree booing when they ran the football one yard and they only cheered when it was like a long bomb you know right that's what happened to some degree in fighting guys would be against the fence or guys would be grappling and people would be like oh when is the the fighting going to happen we still see that yeah we do.

[807] We still see that.

[808] I mean, especially when we go to like different markets outside of Vegas and the audience is not that educated and they start booing when it goes to the ground.

[809] Yeah.

[810] Crazy.

[811] Crazy.

[812] But it sucks.

[813] I commentated Taekwondo for the Pan Am Games.

[814] Really?

[815] Yeah.

[816] And I commentated like eight, maybe more like 10 or 12 traditional martial arts in Russia for the world combat games.

[817] Wow.

[818] And it's super cool.

[819] And I'm just seeing that Brazilian jiu -jitsu is moving the way.

[820] that those sports moved in a lot of ways.

[821] Like, Taekwondo was awesome commentating that.

[822] And the Mexican team won almost all the medals.

[823] Really?

[824] Yeah.

[825] Because you can punch, as we all know, but we don't do it because our coaches and the way that we've taught and the way we've celebrated the spinning and beautiful techniques, that's what we're doing.

[826] That space in between you and me being able to kick each other from here, the Mexican team entered that space, took it away and punched you in the body.

[827] So they were throwing like body punches.

[828] Body punches.

[829] Like boxing style body punches.

[830] And but it's like the sport itself kind of agrees to do taekwondo.

[831] And that happens in every sport.

[832] And in jiu -jitsu now, I love jiu -jitsu.

[833] But sport jiu -jitsu isn't really fighting anymore.

[834] All this barombole and all these interesting stuff.

[835] They're beautiful.

[836] It's fascinating.

[837] It's an amazing sport.

[838] But if we are in an environment where we are going to sort of unconscious agree that these are their structures and rules we have, the sport changes.

[839] As soon as you remove punching, like a lot of these things, certain defenses to things is punch.

[840] So once we remove that, you get this beautiful, cool sport, but it moves further away from fighting the same way every other martial art did.

[841] Well, it can, but it also doesn't have to.

[842] Like, one of the things I really love about what John Donaheher is doing with Eddie Cummins and Gary Tonin and these assassins that he's got out of Hensos in New York is they're figuring out a way to use, use these leg lock transitions in a way that it's not dangerous to do.

[843] Like you would always, the traditional thought was when a guy goes for a leg, and if you do it improperly, it is the truth.

[844] You're committing two arms to the leg, and you're not going to be able to defend against punches.

[845] We saw that with Frank Meir versus Ian the Machine Freeman.

[846] Remember that fight?

[847] Frank was going for that heel hook, and Ian just kept punching him in the fucking face, and, you know, and he stopped him while he wasn't tapping, and he just slamming him in the face.

[848] Alan Belcher, when he was fighting, what's his name?

[849] Paul Harris.

[850] Paul Harris.

[851] You don't see that anymore.

[852] With the highest level jujitsu guys, they're putting themselves in a position, first of all, when a guy like Gary Tonin or Eddie Cummings grabs a hold of your leg, you have fractions of a second before your knee explodes.

[853] And so the transitions and the technique is so tight, you don't have that space to swing wild punches.

[854] They're not giving it to you.

[855] They are putting you in a very, very dangerous spot immediately.

[856] and it's the technique and the thought process behind it and whether it's perfected by Donahur or a bunch of other people.

[857] I know Dean Lister was initially a part of that as well.

[858] He taught those guys a lot and he was one of the early leg lock masters, but these guys are doing it in a way where these techniques that I might have agreed with you just a few years ago really aren't for MMA, like the 50 -50 and stuff like that.

[859] You're seeing those really apply to MMA now.

[860] Yeah.

[861] The cool thing about the cool thing about fighting.

[862] Everything is fucking.

[863] cool about fighting it you know um but a another and a long list of cool things is uh it's how the money that exists like when we talk about why the ufc is a great thing i i think the ufc is an awesome thing it when you monetize something more study and things happen to it as soon as as you say you can become wealthy if you get good at this gyms and businesses and things can pop up around it and it speeds the evolution of how things happen And because MMA exists as a way to get paid for doing fighting, guys like Donahir will arc back with their study of the martial art back to where they get paid, which is fighting, which is the UFC.

[864] Well, it's interesting because you need a guy like a Donahur.

[865] You need one of those genius guys to just try to figure out what's the best way to approach this.

[866] Where are the problems?

[867] Well, the problems keep happening, happening when you're going into the transition and the guy, grabs this leg.

[868] Okay, how do we stop that?

[869] Well, let's look at it backwards.

[870] Let's attack it from this side.

[871] Now, we're going to attack it this way.

[872] So many times when guys would go for an arm bar from side control, you'd be in side control, or you'd be in a mount, you'd grab an arm, you'd swing over, and you would go and you'd commit to that arm, and then the legs would fly over for the defense.

[873] Well, Eddie Bravo was one of the first guys to say, well, let's not hook it with the right arm.

[874] Say, if you're going for someone's right arm and you're trying to arm bar, them don't hook it with your right arm, hook it with the left, and grab their leg with your other arm, and then commit to it that way, because this way you've stopped the defense and you've got a much more secure set of offense.

[875] And one of the reasons why people were going for it in the first place was because of the ghee.

[876] Now, the ghee is a really interesting thing, because I think the ghee is very good defensively.

[877] And I think defensively, it's one of the best tools to make sure that you're using proper technique, because you can't just explode out of things.

[878] You have to use the right position.

[879] You have to understand where you're in danger, where you're not in danger.

[880] However, when it comes to attacking, the ghee gives you so many more handles and so many more options that I think it's false security.

[881] And I think you're way better off not using it to attack.

[882] Yeah.

[883] Yeah, I mean, that's a whole other part of the sport, too.

[884] It's like, you roll with these geese guys, and they're like sneaking this thing out of it.

[885] And you're like, oh, shit, what is he doing?

[886] And now, never mind the fact that that's going to work, just introducing that threat, And you're like, oh, wait, what's happening there?

[887] Now my brain isn't mindful where it's supposed to be.

[888] It's worried about this, which might be nothing.

[889] He's just pulling a piece of a ghee.

[890] It is fascinating.

[891] Any kind of combat, any way that you put two people trying to best each other, it's going to be absolutely fascinating.

[892] The geek guys are doing some weird shit, man, where they're like taking their jacket off and wrapping her on your head and strangling you with it.

[893] Makes sense, though, if we're really going to use this thing, if it's going to be in there.

[894] But fighting, too, it's like even how jiu -jitsu is used in fighting changes so much, in such interesting ways, in ways that we've now seen happen over and over so many times that you can predict their future again.

[895] Like, you know, the one example that I always kind of used is, you know, I'm in your guard, so I do a can opener, and then your guard opens.

[896] Right.

[897] And then you discover, hey, wait a second, I'll arm bar that.

[898] And you arm bar me, so I'm in your guard, a can opener opens your guard, wait a second, you arm bar me, no more can openers.

[899] That doesn't make any fucking sense.

[900] her later, goes, George, we're going to can open Condit.

[901] But then her, what?

[902] I don't do a good French accent.

[903] But what about the arm bar?

[904] We're going to can't open him and shut down the arm bar.

[905] We don't stop can opening because there's an arm bar there.

[906] We just solve the problem.

[907] And that kind of adjustment, you see it now in the guard.

[908] Like, it blows my mind that in gyms everywhere, very smart coaches.

[909] They're like, the guard is dead.

[910] We don't submit from the guard anymore.

[911] We use the guard.

[912] Watch Brian Ortega.

[913] Yeah, fuck.

[914] There's lots of good guys.

[915] Ortega's a monster man, Jesus Christ.

[916] But think of the implications of that.

[917] This is where I see the crazy aspect of it because we've seen this a million times.

[918] So, all right, guys, we're not going to submit from guard.

[919] Our use, when we are in guard, we're going to use it to get an underhook, threaten one of these three things and heist their hips back out and we're going to stand up.

[920] We're going to work on our stand -up more.

[921] If we're here, we're going to get back up.

[922] Okay, coach, that's great.

[923] So now for the next year and a half, your job on top of me becomes hold me down, stop my stand up, and hit me. And my job becomes fight you to get back up.

[924] That happens for three months, six months, two years.

[925] That becomes the game.

[926] You hold me down and beat me up and I try to get back to my feet.

[927] Your game on top hasn't even involved the real threat of submissions for two fucking years because all your training partners are just standing up.

[928] So you're getting weaker at dealing with submission threats because you never see them anymore.

[929] Your training partners don't do them.

[930] Somewhere in Eddie's gym, you got Ben Saunders and guys, they're working on it.

[931] Not only are they getting better at it, you're getting worse at it.

[932] As time goes on, you're getting worse at it.

[933] Inevitably, all of a sudden, it's like the guards back in play.

[934] Holy shit, everybody's submitting guys off their back.

[935] Why?

[936] He got better, but you got worse.

[937] The mindset of how to train that thing in the gym every day removed a very real threat because your training partners don't even throw it at you anymore.

[938] And that thing changes, you know?

[939] Yeah, you see that also.

[940] wrestlers that don't wrestle much anymore because they're working on their striking and they kind of put the wrestling aside and they get out -wrestled and you realize like that's something you got to stay on top of you got to keep sharpening it yeah there's just so many different variables in m -ma it's one of the reasons why it's such an amazing sport is there's so many different ways to go about it i mean you can just decide to damien may it close the distance get guys to ground use your superior jiu -jitsu submit guys and you know look like a wizard or you can wonder boy it where you're just standing up i mean boy there's an interesting interesting fight right there.

[941] Damien Maya and Wonderboy.

[942] That is a very fucking interesting fight if that ever happens.

[943] You know, for Ram Dean and I, as my partner, you met him at your show, we commentate a bunch of really old fights, and it's really cool.

[944] Oh, that's nice.

[945] Old pancreas, we just did a couple of condits, old fights against, I can't remember.

[946] I have an issue member names.

[947] I know it's because I got hit in the head a lot, for real.

[948] Or maybe it was like the drugs.

[949] Those four days of heroin?

[950] Yeah, exactly.

[951] I literally was thinking of that on the way down here.

[952] But old fights, and you see how different it was.

[953] Like you can spot the things where, like, now a guy would not do that or he would do this.

[954] But they just didn't know.

[955] And that's why I think it's crazy that fighting is so structured in how it's trained now.

[956] It's like, let's put it this way.

[957] 2000 in 2030, does fighting look different than it does today?

[958] Oh, yeah.

[959] Then why are we training it like it isn't changing?

[960] Like why, if we know that it is ever changing, why are we like digging in deep and saying, we got it all figured out?

[961] You got to train your Muayta, you got to train this kind of rest and got to, because someone will come along.

[962] That's what taxis did.

[963] You know, that's what hotels did.

[964] They were like, hotels, this is the way to do it.

[965] We're going to build bigger hotels, better hotels.

[966] We'll put pools in them.

[967] You know, we'll advertise them differently.

[968] And somebody's like, people don't want fucking hotels.

[969] It's Airbnb comes along.

[970] Ruins hotels.

[971] Isn't it really ruining hotels?

[972] It's damaging.

[973] them at the very least yeah i mean people tons and tons of people just don't even consider it anymore when i was coming down to l .a for the weekend i was looking at how expensive hotels were i was thinking about it i don't really want to stay in someone's house i don't know yeah that's kind of weird although i have friends who do it all the time they love it cameras and shit they're out to the catch a peat and off yeah i never thought of that but now that i now that's in my head people have been caught some uh some woman was uh she was suing some man because he had set up like, hidden cameras that were on in this house.

[974] Man, what's wrong with us, you know?

[975] We want to see somebody naked.

[976] Yeah, well.

[977] But the internet's full of naked.

[978] There's naked everywhere.

[979] I know, it doesn't matter.

[980] People want, they want naughty.

[981] Yeah.

[982] You know, they want to be able to do things they're not supposed to do.

[983] Yeah, I guess.

[984] You know what I'm saying?

[985] Yeah, for sure.

[986] There's something creepy about, like, spying on somebody.

[987] Yeah.

[988] Yeah, it is creepy.

[989] You could just go to you porn and watch people fuck all day long, but they don't want to.

[990] Well, as soon as you think.

[991] about the fact that somebody spying on you, that feeling that you get proves that it's creepy.

[992] Oh, yeah.

[993] You know what I mean?

[994] Well, it's the technology.

[995] It's never been available before where someone could remotely watch you in your own home, like fairly easily.

[996] It used to be, you know, just 10, 20 years ago, if they wanted to do something like that, they had to, like, set up some pretty elaborate equipment.

[997] Now these little tiny cameras are so small, little GoPro or something like that, set it up somewhere, it can remotely access it.

[998] They have a bunch of different kinds of cameras they can remotely access.

[999] Freaky.

[1000] Each...

[1001] That's outside the point.

[1002] Yeah, but when you think about any kind of technology, you can use it for good.

[1003] You can use it to, like, advance things.

[1004] You can use it to make things better.

[1005] You can use it for bad.

[1006] And I think there's, like, a real perspective thing, I think, with the way that we look at things, you know, the way that people look at things.

[1007] It's like the perspective that you take is everything.

[1008] You know, like if you look at something, somebody says something to you.

[1009] You give all this meaning to it And you assume you know what they mean And then you get mad You don't have to do that You can like just assign it no meaning at all And have whatever response you want That kind of perspective is You come across a camera and you go Well wouldn't this be cool We can like film guys training And we can like come up with all these cool things I can do my job different Or somebody's like Naked people Without their permission That's what we got to do you know Well it's just assholes You're always gonna have assholes You know, we were talking about, like, fighting today versus fighting 30 years from now.

[1010] Why don't we train like it's going to be 30 years from now?

[1011] I think one of the problems is we need to see it be successful.

[1012] Like, you need to see a guy like Wonderboy fight where you go, okay, we got to learn some fucking sport karate.

[1013] We've got to figure out how to do that blitz.

[1014] We've got to figure out how to slide back and throw those kicks the way they're doing it.

[1015] And I still, to this day, think we haven't seen the level of traditional martial arts techniques that exist in, like, a really good.

[1016] taekwondo match or really good Kyokishin match there are guys in these other sports yeah I mean you've seen some guys like Muntasri who's fighting the UFC who's a national champion yeah he's bad motherfucker with his kicks so you're seeing him but you know he he's got to learn all that other stuff first he's got to get me had to rather learn all that other stuff first get better at all these other techniques and you know perhaps there's there's gonna be some guys that are even better or more powerful than him you know that that those these traditional techniques, I think, are probably the most underused or the most underappreciated aspects of MMA.

[1017] I mean, when we saw Anderson front kick Vitor in the face, and it was like the first time we'd ever seen that, they're like, this is crazy that the first kick ever that they teach you is now the new kick.

[1018] Yeah.

[1019] I know you had boss on earlier, and I didn't get to see it.

[1020] I love boss.

[1021] And he used to say straight up, no jabs.

[1022] Jabs in fighting are useless.

[1023] Now, that was a different era.

[1024] Now he would say something different, I'm sure.

[1025] But he was, the people, they were products of eras, and then that other era, well, we can't front kick.

[1026] Well, why not?

[1027] Well, we'll get taken down.

[1028] No. Well, don't get taken down.

[1029] Let's do it.

[1030] Just like that can opener in the arm bar.

[1031] If you get taken down, or whatever the issue was, but say the issue is getting taken down.

[1032] If you get taken down off the front kick, it doesn't mean don't front kick.

[1033] It means front kick and figure out how to stop the fact that you're going to get taken down.

[1034] Well, you see, like, the guys who are really good at that front kick, it's such a danger.

[1035] Kyle Noak when you won that fight in Australia.

[1036] Those, some, I swear some of these guys, Shane Campbell's fighting, I think Sunday, yeah.

[1037] And he's got a few finishes with their toe stabs.

[1038] And I think some of the ones, I keep pointing at this Connor doll because it looks funny.

[1039] The, I think some of the ones he hit Mendez with were toe stabs.

[1040] Just roll the toes back and drill him in.

[1041] And so you're saying like roll the toes back down instead of pulling them back?

[1042] Instead of pulling him back like with the ball of your foot like Taekwondo, make him like a fist.

[1043] They roll them, and then they stab it into the body.

[1044] Really?

[1045] Yeah.

[1046] And all tie technique.

[1047] If you Google, Shane Campbell toe stab, you'll probably see one of his fights right before he got in the UFC.

[1048] But lots, I bet some of them are doing that.

[1049] Now, the ball of the foot, we can penetrate pretty deep.

[1050] But when they commit to, like, literally drilling it in, and it penetrates in and touches your organs.

[1051] I think that gets to me, though, is that I feel like I could kick through a door with the ball on my foot.

[1052] That's your life turn.

[1053] toe, I'm not going to be able to have that kind of impact.

[1054] So if you do that toe stab and you hit an elbow, you're kind of fucksville.

[1055] Well, I guess that's the risk of it.

[1056] Like, the reason you can do that is you did it since you were a little kid over and over thousands and thousands of times.

[1057] And it is harder and it is safer and it is smarter.

[1058] But if you know that that spot is there, I mean, all of these things have to be the next answers.

[1059] Because the next answer isn't just do what we're all doing only better.

[1060] I mean, and it was kind of like, who was it, Matt Hughes' coach, he was from that.

[1061] Pat Militich?

[1062] Militich and Frank Shamrock and these guys were like, okay, well, you were a wrestler and I was a striker, and that's all these things.

[1063] I just got to get really pretty good at all those things.

[1064] That worked for a while, but now that everybody knows every single choice that you're making in every single position, we're just playing within these rules that we've.

[1065] kind of agreed on.

[1066] It's got to be some other stuff.

[1067] It's got to be things that you don't train.

[1068] It's got to be things you haven't dealt with.

[1069] It's got to be things your training partners don't show you.

[1070] That has to be the next answer.

[1071] It has to always be the next answer.

[1072] Yeah, I think movement is the big focus right now, right?

[1073] With Edo and with Irwin.

[1074] Yeah, Irwin, Lecore, Nick Kerson focuses a lot on movement, a lot of pliometrics and explosion drills and movement drills.

[1075] And I think they're realizing now that what What's the glue in between the techniques is what they're really concentrating on.

[1076] I think that was a big factor in the Johnny Hendricks Wonder Boy Thompson fight.

[1077] For sure.

[1078] It was the movement.

[1079] The movement and the fact that Hendricks is so much more stationary.

[1080] He just really wasn't able to close those distances or get out of the way.

[1081] Didn't have that kind of footwork.

[1082] And his game was just so dependent upon close range fighting.

[1083] Yeah, he said, you know, I kind of hoped he would trade in the pocket with me more.

[1084] Why the fuck would he do that?

[1085] He shouldn't do that.

[1086] He should definitely not do that.

[1087] I feel like...

[1088] Should have said.

[1089] I kind of hoped he would fall down.

[1090] Yeah.

[1091] I feel like I know why McGregor started doing that movement training.

[1092] I could be wrong.

[1093] I mean, I hopefully get the chance to ask him.

[1094] But remember the last time that I was here, we talked about that flow state, you know, when you achieve that flow state?

[1095] The best guys are fighting that 100%.

[1096] Right.

[1097] And that state of freedom, right?

[1098] And Condit was one of the first guys I really spotted that kind of did that.

[1099] earlier before we chat about it last time.

[1100] And so you're seeing that a lot.

[1101] When you're in a true flow state, you are free, innovative, able to do things you weren't aware of, fully present in the moment.

[1102] There's all of these things.

[1103] It's about sort of true freedom.

[1104] I think he believed that his body, he was, his mind and the things, his goals were freer than his body was allowing him to be.

[1105] That if he was truly mentally free to fight, that the thing.

[1106] that was stopping him was his physical movement limitations.

[1107] And I really believe that's why he went and pursued that kind of open movement.

[1108] Because we're not going to become any freer than in a peak performance state.

[1109] So we have to free up our body if we're going to go further with this.

[1110] Well, it makes sense if you look at what people...

[1111] Well, George St. Pierre, in a lot of ways, was ahead of the curve with this because of his gymnastics approach.

[1112] But really, the originator of this shit is Hickson.

[1113] If you go back and watch Hickson when Hickson was into the movement...

[1114] was gymnastic unnatriol, he was into a lot of crazy yoga things, a lot of flexibility and balance things.

[1115] He was into that way, way before anybody was.

[1116] And Bruce Lee was into building the body to do martial arts, too, in whatever ways you configure.

[1117] And you were just saying it half an hour ago, I don't know how long it's been, that you tell jiu -jitsu guys, you've got to get strong.

[1118] You know, you identified that.

[1119] Hickson identified that all that long ago.

[1120] He's like, okay, we figured out how we're going to move it.

[1121] Now, what can I do with my body to enhance that or take that further?

[1122] Eddie, with his flexibility stuff, you know.

[1123] Well, Hickson was always the best out of all the graces.

[1124] He's widely regarded as the greatest jiu -jitsu artist ever.

[1125] So if you look at Hickson in comparison to all the other ones, like Hoyce when he was fighting, what was so impressive about Hoyce was that he wasn't a specimen.

[1126] Right.

[1127] And he was just a regular guy who was in shape, obviously, but had really good technique.

[1128] What Hickson is, is that really good technique with a freak athletic body.

[1129] You know, a guy who can stand on a balance beam and do a full split holding onto his heel.

[1130] I mean, he's really freakish in his ability to move his body.

[1131] And physical strength was a huge factor in his ability as well.

[1132] So if you look at Hicks in the old days in comparison to the other guys, you're seeing a much more physically robust guy, much stronger.

[1133] And because of that, he was able to overcome.

[1134] Like, if you get two guys, they both have equal technique, but one guy is much stronger.

[1135] That guy's going to dominate.

[1136] And that's just the way it is.

[1137] You know, technique is hugely important.

[1138] It's probably the most important thing.

[1139] But once that's covered, physical strength is a huge attribute, huge.

[1140] So then the physical strength becomes equal now.

[1141] So then I work that up.

[1142] Then it becomes flexibility and movement.

[1143] And when that's equal, it's just our minds.

[1144] Like, who's going to win this, be more creative, who's more in the zone, who's more loose, who can pull the trigger easier.

[1145] Psychological training.

[1146] It's a huge factor.

[1147] A lot of guys are getting into, um, hypnosis now you know i i got hypnotized um viny shorman hypnotized wow yeah yeah here i wanted to see what it was like he came and did the podcast and he was uh he'd been training he's trained a bunch of guys he's he works with joe shilling and a bunch of different uh kickboxers and moitai guys and i just want to know what it was all about and what was it's legit you know i was like okay what is what is hypnosis is it did you try to fight it no no no no i wasn't i didn't want to do that i wanted to just i wanted him to hypnotize me see what it's like you definitely go into a state you definitely go into some strange state of consciousness i wouldn't say you're asleep because uh i was i heard him talking you know i remember i remember hearing vennie's voice but i was most certainly hypnotized i was definitely there you know and um it's like like you're going into like uh almost like a drug induced it feels real weird that's what i felt like for four days i don't think it's that quite that bad no but uh it's It's a very strange state.

[1148] It's very difficult to describe it and compare it to something else because I don't think I've ever experienced anything like it.

[1149] Other than maybe a state that you get into sometimes when you're doing like a sensory deprivation tank, or I guess you would do if you were doing like heavy meditation, you get into some weird alternative state of consciousness.

[1150] Wow.

[1151] A lot of guys do visualizing training, but with a, I don't know if.

[1152] A lot of the coaches wouldn't call themselves a hypnotist, but they lead it.

[1153] So they lead you through it.

[1154] You've got your eyes closed.

[1155] And David does it with some of the SPG guys and other people.

[1156] And he says as you're getting them to go through and visualize it, you see them moving.

[1157] You see them sweating.

[1158] They are experiencing the fight in their mind.

[1159] They are visualizing everything.

[1160] And it's probably very similar.

[1161] But you lead you through it.

[1162] And at the end, they feel tired.

[1163] They feel mentally tired.

[1164] They've done it.

[1165] And that idea that you visualize, I mean, if we do something, our brain is doing it.

[1166] Right.

[1167] So if we don't physically do it, but our brain does it, you definitely get huge, real true value from that.

[1168] Well, it's been proven.

[1169] It's been proven that people can improve as much through visualization as they can from actual physical movement is as long as you actually commit to it.

[1170] And, you know, don't be all fucking weird and like half -ass it.

[1171] And, you know, you have to think of it as if you're doing it.

[1172] And if you can think of it as if you're doing it, your mind will take those same pathway.

[1173] I know that guys have learned new jiu -jitsu techniques that way.

[1174] Like you visualize yourself pulling them off.

[1175] And then when you're training, they just come.

[1176] They just come to you.

[1177] So wild.

[1178] That just shows you what your brain can do, why it is the most important part.

[1179] I mean, by the time we've learned how to do everything, we're going to fight, and you're walking down there.

[1180] And if you haven't prepared mentally, everything else was always the time.

[1181] If you can't go in there and be in an optimum state, free of the worrying about the consequences, oh, man, I'm going to, like, how much, I need my win bonus or what if I lose this fight or you can't have any of that you have to be like truly free to perform and guys will spend years training the physicality and the technical stuff and then not have a plan for that when Cruz said that you know ring rust or octagon shock or whatever is oxygen rust yeah rust is not real I 100 % believe that I 100 % agree with them it's real if you think it's real right it's not real if it's not real if it's not real it's not real you and but the way it became not real to him is he prepared for it yeah you know um this is the second time i'm in this room i'm more comfortable in it than it was last time um jamie and you are way more comfortable than brendan shab who's more comfortable than me do you know because it's the environment and uh bj pen used to go and train for a fight and he'd have a a uh a ref and a fake ring announcer and an audience and the walkout and he would create all of that before he fought so That stuff wasn't new because the first fucking time you're standing in there, Bruce Buffers doing that crazy shit at you, if you haven't prepared for that, the next thing you know, you either wake up or you somehow want, but you really don't remember anything, like, you're looking at him, it's like, you, that can't be the first time that you've looked at Bruce Buffers.

[1182] It has to have been in your mind 30 times.

[1183] It's like, right, this is where I belong.

[1184] I'm supposed to be here.

[1185] I belong here.

[1186] I earned my way here.

[1187] Fucking right, Bruce Buffers introducing me, because the whole way.

[1188] world's going to see how fucking good I am.

[1189] You can't be like, oh shit, when you see the UFC.

[1190] There's time.

[1191] It's like, yeah, you can't.

[1192] That can't be new.

[1193] That has to have happened dozens or hundreds of times in your mind when you go in there.

[1194] It's interesting because a lot of these guys, their mental preparation is just doing it and learning once you've done it instead of preparing for it.

[1195] And then once you're actually doing it, you go, this is what I've prepared for.

[1196] For sure.

[1197] And even just all the way along, like, if there are, we all should learn stuff.

[1198] That's why I say all the time.

[1199] Sometimes I'll like use an example of something that I do or my friend does or whatever.

[1200] And I don't mean to put it back to myself.

[1201] I'm saying we should all try to do this.

[1202] You look and you prepare for stuff and you go back and it's the work.

[1203] It was the work that you did.

[1204] That's what matters.

[1205] You're not any, you're just a guy.

[1206] But you're a guy who worked like crazy, prepared like crazy, made notes of the things.

[1207] things that you did when you can go back and look at your journal or your notes and see everything you've done in the day or afternoon of that fight that stuff is fighting right that all of your work is fighting all you got to go in go in there and have fun the work's been done that's the state you have to be in and the reason i mentioned i have a stack of every breakdown i've ever done all the work every note and it's like this high and i bring that with me when i went to meet dana and craig i had that in my suitcase when i went down to meet them in Vegas because I look at that and it's like, right, I'm supposed to be here.

[1208] I worked really hard on this stuff.

[1209] I'm supposed to be talking to these guys.

[1210] This is where I'm supposed to be.

[1211] If I don't have that, you can be like, what should I?

[1212] You know, you can't be questioning.

[1213] You have to look at all the work that you did.

[1214] And on that walk to the cage, I had terrible performances and I had one or two good ones.

[1215] And the best one was the last one because I understood what state you were supposed to be in.

[1216] You couldn't be scared.

[1217] You couldn't be angry.

[1218] You couldn't be out to get them.

[1219] You had to be fucking free.

[1220] you love martial arts you love fighting this is what you wanted to do you don't have to be here you get to be here that's that's the state you have to be in when you do a breakdown say if you do a breakdown for cona mcgregor and hafael dos angios how do you begin what do you what do you do you watch footage do you think about what you already know do you how do you how do you begin a breakdown so i got to know what my the point is and the point is like i said to you to influence the way people watch fighting in a way that's positive, make them learn stuff.

[1221] And you hope it influences other people who influence stuff, because you want people to take, you want to inject these ideas into the world.

[1222] So that has to be where you start.

[1223] If you start from that point, it's not to, I got to earn money or I got to like get clicks, nothing.

[1224] I want people to see how fucking amazing this is.

[1225] So you start from that point.

[1226] that point could be months in advance.

[1227] Then there's things that you've been watching and studying and looking at in full immersion, things like, you know, this movement stuff that we're talking about, or comparisons that you make of how people work against the cage and compare to another sport or all these ideas are all floating around.

[1228] Hopefully you've got 50 of them.

[1229] And then the fight comes up and you see, oh, fuck, it's Connor McGregor and Raphael Dos Anios.

[1230] That's got to start brewing.

[1231] I know I asked Craig they accepted mine today So the next one is Jones and Cormier I'm on that already What's going on in that fight Okay what it what do I look back at their other fight Do I look at how they do what at what is happening What happened?

[1232] What's gonna happen?

[1233] How's it gonna happen?

[1234] And where's the fucking cool in it?

[1235] So that starts immediately and then you go you might have a couple of ideas You might have some oh well you know range man like this there's this four ranges kind of thing I've been playing around with and I did it in the Rhonda one, but they didn't release it as that version.

[1236] So that sure applies to John Jones.

[1237] So it'll start thinking about it in terms of four different ranges and how he managed it.

[1238] So they edit your versions?

[1239] No, I sent in multiple versions for that one, only because they were like, they didn't know what I did or how I did it or how I work with them or whatever.

[1240] Actually, it's been super cool.

[1241] Like, I send it in.

[1242] They're like, wow, it's great and put it out.

[1243] But the first one, Dana was like, well, can you give me like four minute version, a five minute a version of one minute like i just want to for him to wrap his head around it so the first one that i sent in was many different ones and then since then and they've been fucking super cool they're just like hey i think this guy's good at this yeah go do that thing you do which is exactly what you hope right oh yeah that's what you want yeah so but that one now you sent the multiple and it was mostly just so they could get out wrap their head around it also you're i mean you're working in a company they got to figure out who is this guy you know he talks fast he seems in enthusiastic.

[1244] Is he smart?

[1245] Is he easy to work with?

[1246] How does he take direction?

[1247] You know, so you've got to figure all that stuff out.

[1248] But I think they figured out pretty quick.

[1249] He's like, oh, yeah, he just doing this stuff and he does a good job.

[1250] Well, you're very, very committed to it.

[1251] And if you were smart and you were running a business, and obviously the UFC is very smart, they look at a guy like you, they go, just tell him to do it.

[1252] He's going to do it.

[1253] He's going to do it right.

[1254] You're going to do it right.

[1255] Yeah, that's been, that's how it's been.

[1256] They'll need to give you much direction.

[1257] Yeah, that's how it's been.

[1258] And, but in that one, so yeah, so I'll look at it.

[1259] And, and Now, I've got, like, that fight is not for eight weeks.

[1260] So I'll still do other breakdowns at Fight Network in the meantime.

[1261] With, you know, that's, there's a family.

[1262] I do 40 hours a week of TV there, and I build these around.

[1263] Do you really?

[1264] You do 40 hours a week?

[1265] Not of hours.

[1266] Not of hours of TV, but I'm in there five days a week.

[1267] We're a 24 -hour fight channel.

[1268] So there's...

[1269] Is that all on in America?

[1270] It's on, like, Xbox and, like, all those other things.

[1271] It's those, like Roku and all of that kind of stuff.

[1272] And then it's in the tri -state area and it's in Texas.

[1273] Like it's in, it doesn't have national carriage, but it's got pockets of carriage.

[1274] It seemed like a no -brainer.

[1275] Yeah.

[1276] There's a channel that just had fights on all the time.

[1277] Like, people would just go, like, how many times you've been flipping through the channel, bored looking for something?

[1278] And you go, well, I'll always go find something on the fight channel.

[1279] Yeah.

[1280] And, I mean, in Canada, the timing was pretty good because George was a big star.

[1281] Right now, in Ireland, fighting is the thing.

[1282] because Conner's over there.

[1283] And Canada was like that.

[1284] And that allowed us to kind of get entrenched in there.

[1285] But when all day, every day is fighting, literally it's like, there are times, hey, Robin and John and John go and talk about, you know, this news.

[1286] So I'll do, on a Monday, we'll do five rounds, which is an analysis show.

[1287] We'll do two or more chats of what's going on in the news.

[1288] I'll do five rounds today, which is a podcast version, but it's for television.

[1289] And then on Tuesday, we'll do similar stuff and then call two hours of all the vintage pancreas and then the next day called two hours of deep out of Japan so all day all the time so for me this is a fucking amazing thing right because this is my life's work it's my job and passion and obsession and that's I get to do it all day but I do that and I'm now making these breakdowns so they have to happen around that but all day long you got to be ready if something hits you or you pick up on something or there's a sea change or there's some kind of little movement going on and something, well, I got a breakdown in six weeks.

[1290] Maybe I can explore that for that.

[1291] Then you get excited.

[1292] The Connor one, I was, I'm very interested in this guy.

[1293] And I look at these guys, you know, Chris Widman's work ethic.

[1294] That taught me how to work really hard.

[1295] You know, I always kind of worked hard, but you look at this guy, okay, that's how, that's how's winners work.

[1296] And then McGregor's growth mentality, it's like, okay, that's how I'm going to get better and better and better.

[1297] And he's innovating.

[1298] I've got to innovate.

[1299] If I innovate, you want other people to spread the idea.

[1300] I want people to rip my stuff off because then they'll rip off what I did a year ago and then a year from now I'll do new stuff.

[1301] Like you want it all to influence how people see fighting because I think fighting is the coolest thing.

[1302] And if they see it through my eyes, they'll think that too.

[1303] You know, but you want, you know, so you learn about innovating from him.

[1304] You look at what Ronda's going through and you learn how do people deal with that?

[1305] How would I deal with that?

[1306] And I'm super attached to all of these people and these things and these experiences, and I kind of get to live them out and learn from them, you know?

[1307] When you look at Connor and Hafeld Dosanjos, how do you think that is going down?

[1308] There's obviously a bunch of different ways they can interact with each other once the cage door shuts and the fight begins.

[1309] How do you perceive it?

[1310] Well, I go through, fighting gets more.

[1311] more and more and more complicated, and then you go through these periods where it gets really, really simple, and then it gets more and more complicated.

[1312] And that's kind of the process of my learning.

[1313] And right now, I'm looking at it kind of simply.

[1314] Obviously, Connor wants to get...

[1315] Connor has a left hand that knocks people out.

[1316] So almost everything he kind of built was to put himself into situations to hit guys with his left hand and knock them unconscious.

[1317] So that's our job.

[1318] We need to knock you unconscious with this.

[1319] So what are some of the problems that could prevent that from happening?

[1320] Well, you can get a hold of me, you can push me up against the cage, you can do all these things.

[1321] And what are the ways that I could increase the likelihood of doing that?

[1322] Well, I can fuck with you.

[1323] That seems to help.

[1324] It works for everybody who's good at it.

[1325] But ultimately, if Dosanios puts him on his back, he's in real fucking trouble.

[1326] He's in real fucking trouble.

[1327] I agree.

[1328] This is not kind of a pretty good jiu -jitsu guy.

[1329] This is a vicious, violent guy who will happily stay in your guard until he caves your face in until you overreact and then he'll start passing, then he'll start abusing you're in trouble so but at the same time we can't look at and go i must stay off the ground at all costs because that infringes on connor's being connor so he has to play the game that stephen thompson played that has to be that's the game most of these guys are looking to try to do right now the thing about dosangos though he's very fast he's very good at closing the distance you know i was really shocked in the pettist fight how quickly he pulled the trigger and how he leaves no space he leaves no space he leaves no space for you to analyze his movement and prepare to counter.

[1330] He's on you before you could get that breathing room.

[1331] The Pettus one is definitely, this was one of the ways I was going to break it down.

[1332] So when you're looking at it, there starts to be multiple different ways because no thing is one thing.

[1333] There's 50 things.

[1334] One of them was Dosanos might be looking at this as this is similar to the Pettus fight.

[1335] And so what would you do different if you were, Connor, if your goal, if your job was to beat this guy?

[1336] Pettus didn't move laterally very much because he's also really good at and him and Duke and lots of people I've been working on as you back up delivering with power back up a lot of it has to do with the stomp of the back foot bam you know and so they were working on that this guy is a pressure fighter as he moves forward we're going to rip him we're going to hurt him we're going to drop him we're going to discourage him it's never never got it off somewhere now my orbital bone is broken my idea of lulling you in and hurting you bad isn't working the the adjustment is we got to start moving laterally and he never really did that petis broke his orbital in the first round yeah first punch that hard left hand yeah wow yeah now the one so then we're looking at it where Connor and his people and they're taking a positive approach to it what can we exploit one thing dos anios does all really the only thing that he if you're looking at it and going what what one thing jumps out as a lot of less than perfect for this killer champion and that he really telegraphs his punches.

[1337] He telegraphs them a lot.

[1338] You see it.

[1339] Right.

[1340] You see it.

[1341] And when I break things down, I'll watch fights in slow motion, sometimes dozens of times.

[1342] And now that's all I see.

[1343] Did you see the video that somebody put together, it's like an animated gift file of Aldo chasing after Connor, Connor landing the left hand and then the same exact movement by Dos Anjos chasing after Pettis, or chasing after Donald.

[1344] rather, but Donald doesn't land the punch.

[1345] Like you see very similar movement.

[1346] He sees, that's what he says, he sees.

[1347] Now when I look at him, he does, and I I'm a, I actually hate to criticize it anyway.

[1348] I don't feel comfortable with it.

[1349] I don't feel qualified to criticize.

[1350] And that's just a personal thing.

[1351] I don't think other people shouldn't.

[1352] I just, I'm looking at 90 to 90th percentile fighters.

[1353] And I'm some guy, who won a couple of fights and was terrible in fights.

[1354] And I'm, you know, I just, I don't feel qualified to always criticize because I don't know how to...

[1355] Well, I don't even know if it's necessary.

[1356] Yeah.

[1357] I feel like the way I look at fights, the way I try to look at fights is I look at them like, we're looking at mathematics.

[1358] I'm looking at, like, there's an equation going on.

[1359] And one, there's values and there's numbers in one side and there's values and numbers in the other side.

[1360] What's fascinating to me about this fight is there's equations where you have to factor in many things.

[1361] You have to factor in power.

[1362] You have to factor in technique.

[1363] You have to factor in the ability to execute.

[1364] And you have to factor in persona and personality and just charisma.

[1365] And that's one of the things that Connor brings to the table that's hard to, it's hard to monetize or not monetize.

[1366] It's hard to quantify.

[1367] It's hard to measure how much he fucked with Aldo's head before Aldo.

[1368] just chased after him and get lit up like that.

[1369] I mean, what was it that caused that?

[1370] Was it, there's a, there's many possible factors.

[1371] But all these movements and interactions that they have, I think you can almost look at them like a mathematical exchange.

[1372] Like there's certain guys, like Ed Shortfuse Herman, great guy, tough guy, very good fighter.

[1373] You're never going to confuse him with Wonderboy Thompson.

[1374] Nope.

[1375] When it comes to like his footwork and his movement, If you looked at those two guys mathematically, you looked at them as an equation, you would go, well, this side is very lopsided in its movement.

[1376] You know, like if you have $100 in one hand and $10 in the other hand, the $100 is worth more than $10.

[1377] That's just a fact.

[1378] Yeah, yeah, you're right.

[1379] And all that prefacing it was coming to say that now that I've watched through the eye that I'm thinking it's Connor's eye watching him and his eye watching Connor, I see Dos Anios as being taken to the best level of what you can take guys who still are kind of sturdy.

[1380] They're still got that old version of strength, different, not sort of free and flowing just, and you see his telegraphing.

[1381] That doesn't mean he can't fuck you up.

[1382] Just because I would see that doesn't mean you can do anything about it or stop it or if he ends up on the ground.

[1383] He's like, who's fucking telegraphing now, you know?

[1384] None of that may matter.

[1385] But that is what I definitely see now that when I'm picturing what is Connor seeing like you see boom move back boom like it's it's a much more sort of labored and it's built around an old sturdy style of building a fighter and Condit and and McGregor and all these guys believe that the answer to that is not only mobility where we move our feet but how we move through space you know Condit comes on weird angles and different things and that's That's got to be what he's seeing.

[1386] Whether that matters or not, it suddenly doesn't matter at all if he puts you on it back and caves your face in.

[1387] Yeah, and he's got some very good movement himself, though.

[1388] Dosanjos may telegraph things a little bit, but it's because he puts so much power into his shots.

[1389] What's shocking about him, though, is his ability to close the distance.

[1390] It's very fast.

[1391] That's one of the things that I've disagreed with what Connor said, is that he's a slower, like, stuck in the mud.

[1392] version of Aldo.

[1393] Like, man, I don't see that at all.

[1394] I see a fucking savage.

[1395] Yeah, he is a fucking savage.

[1396] Like, as I watched it, it's like, you're looking for what you could think you could exploit, and that's the thing.

[1397] It's like, okay, I think I can, I think I can see the things coming.

[1398] Now, that may turn out to not be true, and that's a bad time to figure that out.

[1399] Yeah, it's a terrible time.

[1400] It's when you're getting ripped in the face.

[1401] But at the same time, it's also like the dude, it's just so aggressively violent.

[1402] But whether it's, McGregor is not at, in my opinion yet, or we haven't seen it at the Dominic Cruz level, but let's say that you and I have a really great fighter and somebody says, we'll give you guys a million dollars if you can have this guy beat Dominic Cruz in five years.

[1403] What do you do?

[1404] If we start figuring out trying to teach him the same movement as Dominic Cruz, the most we could hope for is him achieving Dominic Cruz five years earlier.

[1405] The five years of learning it, Dominic Cruz has improved for five right we've got to figure out the answer to make it not about that that's the hard part that and that's what connor and his people i think believe is it's we'll make it not about what he wants it to be about well don't you think with a guy like dominic cruz one of the reasons why dominic has created that style is because he's not capable of putting a guy away with one shot he's not that kind of connor mcgregor one punch death touch kind of a guy he just doesn't have that so he's got to hit you with a volume and he's also very smart and very smart guys don't want to get hit so what do they do they incorporate a lot of footwork and dominic's footwork is pretty fucking spectacular i watched him we were all just hanging around backstage one day and he and brian stan and dc were talking just joking around and uh dc said uh show me some of that footwork brian or show me show me some of that footwork um uh dominic and he steps in with this shuffle and then sidestep and i'm like whoa Like when you see him just playing around When someone's standing in front of him Like Brian Stan was just standing there for him And he's like Like the way he's moving It's like you have to calculate that You have to figure out like Like you think he's coming this way But he's going that way And then he's coming this way again Like wow Yeah It's amazing This isn't like improvised Like these are like very specific Very His amount of efficiency Involved these movements are excellent.

[1406] It's wild.

[1407] And it's that same thing we were saying, you know, I don't do submissions from Guard anymore.

[1408] So all my training partners are not dealing with that.

[1409] Some guys quietly just building the shit out of that.

[1410] Dominic's been doing that for 10 years.

[1411] If you've tried to figure that out now, good luck, 10 years.

[1412] Well, here's what I want to know.

[1413] But he did it in front of everybody.

[1414] They all saw him do it and they still let him do it.

[1415] And they didn't try to, you know what I mean?

[1416] He did it right out in front of everybody's nose.

[1417] It's hard to figure out.

[1418] I mean, you watched him do it even while he was doing it with TJ.

[1419] I was like, how can he, there's so many movements that he's, he's capable of doing.

[1420] There's so many different combinations of steps and exchanges.

[1421] And like, you think he's stepping this way and he switches stances and he goes off to the left.

[1422] And he knows you're going to step in.

[1423] Like, is this a movement drill?

[1424] Here, look at this.

[1425] Look at this.

[1426] Look at this.

[1427] Look at this.

[1428] If you want to catch up to that, he's been building that for 10 years in front of everybody.

[1429] And everybody sat around going, well, that's just Dominic.

[1430] Yeah, I mean, he's different.

[1431] That's incredible Dominic would tell you he's not different He would say if you did this for 10 years You could do it too You know what I mean?

[1432] No wonder why he gets Planner Fascii Yeah exactly Jesus Christ Yeah That's incredible I mean that's his solution For having You know he says he has bitch hands He jokes around about it Because he has small hands And he's broken them several times I mean he put away Mitsugaki in the first round But it's very rare that he puts guys away He just doesn't have the physical frame for it But because of that He's developed all this incredible movement It's one of the things I always tell people when you learn jiu -jitsu.

[1433] Don't learn jiu -jitsu from a gorilla.

[1434] Learn it from an Eddie Bravo or, you know, a small guy, you know, a small physical, like, a guy who's not imposing.

[1435] Those guys are the ones you really want to learn technique from them because they've had to develop that technique.

[1436] It has to be laser sharp because they don't have the ability to gorilla out of things.

[1437] You know, when you learn jiu -jitsu from really big people, man, it's rare that they're technical.

[1438] It's really rare.

[1439] Because they can make it work.

[1440] Yes.

[1441] Yeah, you want to Barrett Yoshida, right?

[1442] You want a little tiny guy that has just a laser sharp technique.

[1443] And Eddie Bravo, a Hoyler Gracie, you know, a small person who's just got fucking razors, the Mendez brothers.

[1444] Perfect example.

[1445] Small guys with razor sharp technique.

[1446] And if you watch them roll against even bigger guys, their technique is so fucking sharp.

[1447] They can get through.

[1448] Whereas, like, if you find a big guy.

[1449] who's got guerrilla jujitsu and he fights a bigger gorilla he gets fucked up that's just what you said earlier when the hoists went into ufc one because they knew it would be that much more amazing if the little dude did it sort of that's not really what happened though that's the standard that's the standard description of what happened what really happened was they couldn't control hickson hickson was the master of the family everybody knew he was the king yeah but you couldn't like if hickson won he would be like i won't 10 million dollars and now I'm going to go surf.

[1450] He would just do whatever the fuck he wanted.

[1451] I mean, Hickson truly marches to the beat of his own drum, and no one could control him.

[1452] And so his brother was not really interested in putting Hickson in that position.

[1453] The idea was put Hoyson in.

[1454] If Hosee lost, then you go into negotiations with Hickson.

[1455] Right.

[1456] And you get Hickson in there, because Hickson's going to fuck everybody up.

[1457] It would have changed everything, though.

[1458] It would have been different.

[1459] The way he did it would have been different.

[1460] Like, if you ever looked at some of the brutal.

[1461] beatdowns, the Gracian action, beatdowns that Hickson did, he's so goddamn strong.

[1462] He's not just unbelievably technical with his jiu -jitsu, but also really physically, really physically strong.

[1463] I think some of the audience, a lot of them maybe, wouldn't have gone, oh, my God, Jiu -Jitsu's amazing.

[1464] They'd have gone, holy shit, this guy's a killer.

[1465] Yes.

[1466] And Hoyst being there, it was, Hoyst's fighting tonight, too.

[1467] I know, isn't that crazy?

[1468] We're sitting here.

[1469] Hoist is going to fight in like three hours.

[1470] He's in his 50s.

[1471] He's at least 50, right?

[1472] How old are his horse?

[1473] I think Ken and him are both 50.

[1474] Yeah.

[1475] Just let him juice up.

[1476] Let him juice up.

[1477] Yeah.

[1478] I mean, they're probably gonna if they can get around it.

[1479] You know, like they're 50.

[1480] You know what I mean?

[1481] Like, they're 50.

[1482] Think about being 50.

[1483] I know, man. I still have this little tiny hint in the back of my mind somewhere that I could fight one more time.

[1484] Like it's just hidden back there.

[1485] But you were just talking about your head.

[1486] I know.

[1487] I know.

[1488] That your memory's not so hot.

[1489] Yeah.

[1490] I have a weird sort of perspective on that.

[1491] One, that's why I think we have to celebrate these fights way more because these guys are getting hurt.

[1492] And they're doing it for their adventure or their reasons, but they're still getting hurt.

[1493] But I was in Belize and with my wife, and it was beautiful, actually.

[1494] It's beautiful.

[1495] And you meet, there's a huge percentage of men over 40 that are blind.

[1496] and yeah they're blind yeah because they have their big one of their biggest crops is cashews and something about the process of cashew farming makes you go blind in five years or ten or twenty at some point yeah certain certain people who work in cashew farming it's known that you will go blind holy shit man so when you're 20 cashews are not worth going blind over man and so when you're 20 and you say i'm going to be a cashew farmer you're doing it with the knowledge that you're you're going to be blind one day.

[1497] Full knowledge, because you've known your grandfather, you knew it an uncle.

[1498] There's just a certain percentage of people.

[1499] And they do it because at the end, they will provide for their family.

[1500] It's a good career.

[1501] You will take care of your kids.

[1502] And they do it knowing.

[1503] And people go and they work in minds.

[1504] People do all kinds of things that harm themselves.

[1505] But you need to know that it's happening.

[1506] You need to be fully informed and make a solid decision that this is what you want to do.

[1507] And a lot of 17 -year -olds who go and start boxing or whatever, Don't have all that information.

[1508] No. No, they don't.

[1509] But if you have it and you're like, this is my passion, this is all I want to do, this is what I want to do with my life.

[1510] I was put on earth to fight.

[1511] I know there'll be repercussions for this in my future and I'm choosing to do it.

[1512] Go do it, man. It's a free society.

[1513] You can eat as much sugar as you want, and that'll kill you.

[1514] You know, you can do it.

[1515] But you want people to know the dangers.

[1516] I have no idea about cashew farming.

[1517] Do you find anything on that, Jamie?

[1518] Please don't tell me that that's a myth.

[1519] I didn't see anything about blindness, but there's like blood cashews are coming up.

[1520] And there's the way that they farm them and get them deshelled is pretty bad.

[1521] And it causes people intense pain because there's some sort of liquid that comes out of them when you pull the shell.

[1522] I don't know if that's a chemical that's used.

[1523] And I don't know.

[1524] I don't even know what a cashew shell looks like.

[1525] I don't know either.

[1526] I've never seen a cashew in a shell.

[1527] It was something that was mentioned more than a couple of times in.

[1528] Whoa, that's what it looks like?

[1529] Yeah.

[1530] How weird.

[1531] So, I mean, that chemical could be connected to pain.

[1532] Blindness may be one of the effects.

[1533] But that was the story that I was told more than a few.

[1534] times down there about that.

[1535] They don't even look real.

[1536] Look at that.

[1537] That looks like an avatar plant.

[1538] It's true.

[1539] You know?

[1540] It doesn't look real.

[1541] It looks like some sort of a weird, crazy squash.

[1542] But if you decide you're going to go farm that stuff and you know what the outcome is and you do it anyways, that's your, you chose to do that for whatever your reasons are.

[1543] So you're not finding anything on cashews causing blindness?

[1544] Just try, give it a shot.

[1545] Yeah, it just makes me sad that these people obviously don't have a whole lot of.

[1546] options it makes me not want to buy cash shoes but then again then they don't have any money right the fuck do you do yeah um yeah fighting is is also some people can get away with it boss rootin who's here on wednesday obviously former ufc heavyway champion one of the greats one of the real pioneers of the game sharp as attack no problems mentally at all i mean boss was just he was our 10 he's speaking a second language by the way you know he speaks dutch so in english he's smooth as silk he's talking fast he's got all these great stories his memory sharp as a razor there's no uh no problems with him at all and then of course we all know guys that are punchy and um i've known a lot of guys from the time when i was a teenager and now today i can't talk to them anymore because they're fucked up guys from my old boxing gym they're fucked up man they're they have real problems like they're very very compromised and i feel very fortunate that i'm not i'm sure there's something going on i'm definitely I definitely got hit a lot.

[1547] So I'm sure there's something that didn't go well up in there.

[1548] Probably made me more impulsive, more angry or more aggra.

[1549] I don't know.

[1550] I mean, I don't know what it is.

[1551] But overall, I got out of it pretty unscathed.

[1552] But it's because I stopped fighting when I was 22.

[1553] I realized at that age, I was like, I'm already getting headaches.

[1554] And this is, there's no future in it back then.

[1555] There was no money in it back then.

[1556] There was no MMA.

[1557] It was just kickboxing.

[1558] And I was like, man, I'm not, this isn't my, you know, I was way better at Taekwondo than it was at kickboxing.

[1559] You know, my kicks were my, my biggest attribute.

[1560] And I was learning how to box more.

[1561] And in that learning, I was getting the fuck beat out of me. Definitely the most abuse I took was boxing, but I love boxing.

[1562] I love it.

[1563] And I took a lot of it.

[1564] I remember I got a couple of concussions.

[1565] One for sure, that I remember, it's almost like life was different the moment after that concussion.

[1566] Like my, the way that I saw the world was different.

[1567] after I took that one punch, it was just training.

[1568] How so?

[1569] I just, I don't know, my perception or something.

[1570] And like in what way?

[1571] I had a headache and I threw up that night.

[1572] So I was in Lethbridge and, you know, Jordan Mian.

[1573] His dad, Lee, and Jordan, were out of town and I went to train and this guy, Dan Torture Chambers, who was a big, powerful good 185er.

[1574] You were sparring with a 185?

[1575] I don't know what the fuck I was saying.

[1576] So he fights at 185?

[1577] Yeah, so he was in at 200s, 2 .10.

[1578] And I thought we were just going to light spar, but that's not what they do.

[1579] And I took a crazy straight, oh, yeah, he was a South Paw, and I took a crazy straight left or two from him.

[1580] And then immediately something was different.

[1581] And then I started slipping it and hitting him with my left hook.

[1582] And I was happy, there's moments in fighting where, you know, you find out you're just not, I'm not like Chris Wydenman.

[1583] You know, that's just the truth.

[1584] But then there's moments in a fight or in sparring where you're like very proud.

[1585] Like when threatened with danger, my answer was to fucking hit it back as hard as I could.

[1586] So got through the round or rounds.

[1587] And then I just had a headache.

[1588] I couldn't think.

[1589] I went and I ring announced that night.

[1590] I started throwing up in the back.

[1591] And just my thought process was different.

[1592] I was single at the time and there was a really cute girl was asking me to go hang out with her.

[1593] And I just couldn't focus.

[1594] And I got better a month or two later.

[1595] but I feel like that day was different.

[1596] Like that after that, yeah, I really feel like I saw things differently or I thought differently or it's just, it's a moment.

[1597] It's a very distinct moment.

[1598] Like that time I almost didn't get off the couch from the, you know, that moment I was different after it.

[1599] Wow, no. You didn't even get knocked out.

[1600] That's what's really crazy.

[1601] It was a, you got your bell rat, but you kept sparring.

[1602] So you're still mobile.

[1603] Yeah.

[1604] Your legs were working.

[1605] Now, think about.

[1606] But then after, after that sparring.

[1607] the rest of the I didn't really train anymore and then he gave me a ride back and the rest of the day even the ring announcing I think I was probably behaving very strangely during it and I don't remember that day super well other than telling a pretty girl that I couldn't hang out with her because my head hurt so much uh I remember the rest of the round though and I remember and I got a concussion in the first couple shots of my first fight too and I fought till about the middle of the second round and I knew I was different like you just know but it's cool in a weird way that you go and keep fighting because now I understand it when I commentate or when I'm analyzing and I've had that experience and that's why I fought was to have that understanding but I know what it is to fight with a concussion or spar with a concussion and you see that guys do it they're hurting round one and they'll fight all the way through sometimes win.

[1608] I wonder what, if anything, they're going to figure out in the future to mitigate some of the problems with head impacts, you know, whether it's going to be something with stem cells or some sort of a new method of rehabilitating and healing people.

[1609] It's so depressing to me to watch this incredible problem solving at its highest level event, like MMA, or like boxing or anything along those lines.

[1610] Football.

[1611] But knowing that any time like Gokon Saki lands a head kick on somebody, that guy might not ever be the same again.

[1612] And that is a big fucking factor that I really get upset when people downplay that.

[1613] Like when you see someone get head kicked and knocked dead, they might not ever be the same again.

[1614] That is a fact.

[1615] I know a guy back when I was a young kid who got kicked in the head and the doctor told him, I don't want you to ever do combat sports again.

[1616] I don't want you to ever do contact sports again.

[1617] I don't want you playing football.

[1618] I don't want you do it.

[1619] You're like, stop.

[1620] You have to stop.

[1621] Like you got fucking killed and you survived.

[1622] You got real lucky.

[1623] and you see guys like that they get hit like that and then they're fighting five months later and then they're fighting six months later and they're not the same you could tell they're not the same they can't take a shot anymore yeah it's it is spooky you don't know what the answer is because there isn't really one now other than you can't spar with big guys like that and do it because it's fun and it's fun to fight you should never and most guys aren't doing that as many guys are not doing that as much but it's you know this is to me when you get the chance to have people who have trained their whole lives to help us have an experiment in combat right now in front of all of us.

[1624] That is such a beautiful and wonderful thing in humanity.

[1625] Like we were fighting as a part of what we do.

[1626] Fighting is a part of us getting here.

[1627] It may be a part of our future depending on where we are and what's happening and different aspects of fighting is a part of us.

[1628] And to see it done at that level and this sort of almost global experiment kind of way.

[1629] It's beautiful.

[1630] It's this wonderful, incredibly artistic thing.

[1631] But it has the downside.

[1632] And that's another reason.

[1633] It just sickens me when I see the way people respond to Aranda or respond.

[1634] Conner's going to lose one day.

[1635] And how are they going to respond to that guy?

[1636] You know, Johnny Hendricks lost.

[1637] How are people responding to this?

[1638] Because these guys are just doing incredible, incredible things for the furthering of what humanity is capable of.

[1639] Well, people love to attack people when they lose.

[1640] like the way Hendricks lost.

[1641] I saw people attacking him online.

[1642] I'm like, God, damn it.

[1643] That guy just fought a wizard.

[1644] Yeah.

[1645] You know, he fought like a real striking wizard, and he learned something.

[1646] People like, yeah, you should have fucking made weight against Woodley.

[1647] Yeah, he fucking cheater.

[1648] He was probably on PDs before.

[1649] All this hate and nonsense and just terrible, terrible fucking shit.

[1650] I read about him online.

[1651] My God.

[1652] Everyone deals with it.

[1653] I've actually taken, the only time I ever take stabs and, you know, even talking about it, I don't feel great about it, but it's when guys miss weight.

[1654] And other fighters, fighters are doing it, coaches do it.

[1655] It's just missing weight, there was always penalties for it.

[1656] You're going to lose part of your purse.

[1657] And public, you know, finger pointing has always been a part of that penalty.

[1658] Every other guy on that card has made weight.

[1659] And it's the worst part about their job.

[1660] And hopefully guys are getting a, I think we are getting away from weight cutting a little more.

[1661] As we're getting away from the bodybuilder, wrestler, weight.

[1662] It's a part of that prototype of fighter, and that prototype of fighter is going to keep getting beaten now, that we have new answers to him.

[1663] And I think as that fighter changes, that weight cutting is a part of that prototype.

[1664] Well, also, USADA and the IV ban, that's a big issue.

[1665] As soon as they started banning the IVs, you saw people's body weights lowering because they realized they couldn't make that big crazy 25 -pound cut in a couple days and rehabilitate enough or rehydrate enough, rather, to be able to fight 24 hours later.

[1666] You just can't do it.

[1667] You have to drop your body weight down.

[1668] You have to.

[1669] And guys were using diuretics before you saw it, too.

[1670] There were diuretics.

[1671] We all hear who apparently is doing it.

[1672] But I talk about fighting all day on TV.

[1673] I can't address that.

[1674] Because just because some three coaches and two fighters are like, everybody knows that guy's doing it.

[1675] Never failed to test.

[1676] There's no evidence.

[1677] It's just you can't really talk about it.

[1678] You can make observations around it.

[1679] But the truth is, in that era, man, if you were fighting Josh Barnett in Japan like you don't know what somebody else might be on you don't know what Vanderlay might be on you gotta go over there you do you do what you thought you had to do you know if you were fighting in pride after a few years first call you gotta make us to a doctor because you may not want to do it it may be harmful for your future in some ways depending but I don't know what I'm going to pride look at these guys they're all on something I need to fight I've got to make You know, you don't go ask the bodybuilder at the gym.

[1680] You go ask a doctor.

[1681] Well, it's interesting, too, because when you watch guys that were competing in pride and were looking amazing, and then you see them when they got over to the UFC, and they weren't nearly as good.

[1682] You have to think one of two things happen.

[1683] Either they took so much punishment in pride that they never really fully recovered, which is absolutely possible.

[1684] Or they were on some shit.

[1685] Yeah.

[1686] Or both.

[1687] Or both.

[1688] Yeah.

[1689] Most likely.

[1690] Most likely.

[1691] The thing people don't see somehow, they are.

[1692] Oh, that guy did steroids, and now he's this.

[1693] That may be true.

[1694] But the natural reaction is this, whether that's your hormonal reaction.

[1695] You're doing hand motions for people that are just listening.

[1696] Yeah, yeah.

[1697] It's an up and a down.

[1698] Yeah.

[1699] And, you know, your hormone levels will crash.

[1700] Yes.

[1701] And when they crash, like, you know, TRT Vitor and Dadbod Vitor is not like, you know, in theory, if you had to take TRT because you had no or very little testosterone, well, now that you're off it, you're going to be dad bod Vitor when I saw that and it was you know what I was really happy for Vitor to not look like a you know the Incredible Hulk and still win that said a lot about you mean when he fought Henderson yeah yeah yeah but who knows who knows you know that's the problem yeah who knows what kind of shenanigans are going on for sure you know especially when you're fighting in Brazil I hate to say it's true but it is it is true it's a different It's a different thing.

[1702] You know, I don't know what the future holds as far as testing for performance enhancing drugs, but I've got to imagine that they're closing in to the point where there's almost no wiggle room.

[1703] And these guys getting popped that never got popped before, like when Glacin got popped, and everybody's like, wow, who fucking saw that coming?

[1704] Guy looks like the incredible Hulk.

[1705] So of the biggest weight cutters in the history of the sport.

[1706] I mean, he is the biggest 155 -pound fighter I've ever seen in my life, bigger than anybody.

[1707] Because he would weigh 155, make weight, shredded, and then the next day you'd be like, Jesus Christ, he's 200 pounds.

[1708] He's so goddamn big.

[1709] He was so big.

[1710] Just swall, shredded, not an ounce of fat, just gorilla strong and freakish endurance.

[1711] But he popped hot for EPO.

[1712] He popped hot for something else.

[1713] Yeah, I forget.

[1714] It might have been a diuretic too.

[1715] But then Y 'all Romero, another one.

[1716] You look at that guy and you go, well, the fucking, how's that even human?

[1717] I love the Ysada guy when he introduced the concept of the smell test.

[1718] All that is basically like, come on.

[1719] That's what that is.

[1720] It's like.

[1721] When Novitsky's on top of it, man. He's giving these guys no space.

[1722] Yeah.

[1723] That's the only way.

[1724] I mean, either, hey, everybody can do whatever, which is probably going to be unsafe in a lot of ways.

[1725] Yes.

[1726] Or, well, we're going to kind of test, but you guys work around it.

[1727] Your workarounds will be an acceptable amount of drug use that we're all going to say we're okay with and just do it.

[1728] Well, it's interesting because the UFC didn't have.

[1729] have to do this.

[1730] Yeah, I know.

[1731] This is all their own idea.

[1732] This is not instituted by the Nevada State Athletic Commission.

[1733] This is entirely the UFC's idea to bring in Novitsky and say, look, let's fucking chase this down to the end of the earth.

[1734] Let's find exactly what the fuck these people are doing.

[1735] And let's clean up the sport.

[1736] And you're seeing much more realistic bodies, much more realistic performances.

[1737] You're seeing guys like Eric Silva, like changed radically.

[1738] He used to look like a yoked up Bruce Lee.

[1739] Right?

[1740] And then he became like, you know, an athlete.

[1741] It looks like a regular athlete.

[1742] I was in Saskatoon when he fought.

[1743] And when he went out to do the open workout, we were like, oh, this guy looks totally different.

[1744] Totally different.

[1745] You know, it's funny, being a fan or a fanatic fan, people always, there's a lot of that negativity we were talking about.

[1746] People always want to take a jab at the UFC or Dana or whatever.

[1747] Nobody ever wants to point out the good moves, like the really positive moves that they make.

[1748] This is one of those.

[1749] It's a huge one.

[1750] It's a big one.

[1751] It's a big one.

[1752] You can't half ass it because if you half ass it and leave it to the, and Nick, Dana used to say it's not our job.

[1753] It's the commission's job.

[1754] The reason they instituted this is like, they're just not doing a good enough job.

[1755] They're not.

[1756] They're not.

[1757] The piss testing is inexpensive, and that's why they would do it.

[1758] The type of blood test the USADA guys are doing is so much more comprehensive, which was also why it was so maddening when Nick Diaz got in.

[1759] trouble because Nick Diaz, and this is also to Novitsky's credit, Novitsky was one of the ones that's saying, this is fucking bullshit.

[1760] This suspension's bullshit, what they're doing is bullshit because the USADA testing showed him under the limit.

[1761] So he is fine.

[1762] And then they had some other wacky piss test.

[1763] It's not nearly as accurate, and that's where he tested high.

[1764] And so they find him $100 ,000.

[1765] Now it's went from 165 down to 100 or something like that.

[1766] And then they're going to give him a 16 month suspension instead of they have three years five years and they were going to give him five years that's insane well they just gave van derley three years you saw that yeah yeah but here the problem with the van dery thing is they did it just before he's going to fight fadour in pride now if he goes or in rison rather i'm saying pride yeah right prising pride never die so he's going to fight phaedore and rising so he will have violated his band so that it will essentially keep him out of fighting in the united states forever i mean that's a sneaky thing they did right there yeah a lot of people aren't pointing that out like they they kept that guy in the shelf they told him he's banned for life they fucked with them they wouldn't give him a hearing they kept postponing the hearing then coincidentally right after the guy gets a big fight he gets a first he's gonna fight in august in in uh...

[1767] rising and then immediately they hit him with his three year and i think he's only 17 months in for the original suspension from the time that where they caught him to today i think it's only 17 months i think you're right if that's the case that's you know that's a year in five months this guy still got another year and a half to go so he can't fight fador he can't get that payday or he can go and say i'm going to finish my career in japan he's gonna yeah i think he's got i think he's kind of which is sad for our fans over here well was the most sad thing was all those crazy videos he was doing i know saying the ufc's disrespecting the athlete and they're paying and then the ufc is like all right well we're going to tell everybody how much money you made and then you found out van derly made nine million dollars and you're like yeah wait wait wait that's not poverty Yeah.

[1768] Dude, you made nine million bucks?

[1769] Like, he only won a couple of fights.

[1770] I mean, obviously, he's a fucking legend and one of the all -time greats and one of my, if I had to pick like three favorite fighters, Vandalay's in that top three.

[1771] Pretty brilliant.

[1772] He was so much fun to watch.

[1773] He was just, when you saw Vandale rolling his wrists before those fights in pride.

[1774] Shit, you imagine looking at that over there?

[1775] Come on.

[1776] He was chaos, man. Which is what makes the crow cop knockout of him even more impressive, is that.

[1777] crow cop showed the difference man this is the difference between a guy's a wild brawler and an elite striker for sure yeah yeah uh yeah you feel bad for vandal i that reaction with those videos and you know he loved being a hero yeah he loved it like when i talked to him he loved the people and he loved that people celebrated it a big reason that he loved fighting was the audience and he told me that he loved it and then somewhere between jail in jill in jill in jill Some jailness in there and a few other things Suddenly the audience was negative against Van der Leif for some length of time It was the ultimate fighter He would just he acted like an asshole He acted like a bully and an asshole and it didn't work And Chale made him look like a fool He made him like a fool verbally and then physically when Chale took him down Like you know really pretty easily Chale made him look like an asshole That's what Connor's doing now Conner's been compared to him I don't think there's it's not even yeah Like in the thinking so I don't think it's a similarity But you can't fuck with guys who are so good at that you will lose you'll you'll see they're going to affect your performance you're going to look bad i thought my guy yariah figured out exactly how to tangle with connor mcgregor like he became kind of a friend and he was a part of the joke around with them exactly that's what yariah does yeah he's got it's jovial yeah yeah yeah he's a very like a you know it's looking like it's going to be ira and dominant cruz that's crazy what do you think about that i'm one of the reasons i wanted to fight and wanted to learn more about fighting and one of the things that pointed me to start pursuing this was eurya favor mark hominick these little guys that fought you know i'd like admire them wanted to be like them i was older um but but so i'm a uriya guy um but when he went to fight frankie my breakdown kind of was this guy's really fucking good at these things and he gets better at these certain things right but we got to see some kind of innovation out of him we have to see something else.

[1778] Uriah wins with drive and determination.

[1779] He'll win every position.

[1780] He wins with will and he wins by overwhelming you.

[1781] He can mentally break you.

[1782] He can't be stopped.

[1783] All of that is great.

[1784] But we need something more technically.

[1785] We need some new tricks.

[1786] We need some shit that the other guy doesn't know.

[1787] He didn't have that against Frankie.

[1788] I'll say exactly the same thing for Dominic Cruz.

[1789] He must have some new things, some other stuff.

[1790] Just being the best Uriah isn't going to win him this fight, I don't think.

[1791] He's got to have some other different answers.

[1792] Yeah, I wonder what he's doing as far as working on his footwork and working to try to deal with.

[1793] I mean, he has fought him twice.

[1794] He's the only guy to beat Dominic.

[1795] He caught Dominic with a gigatine their first fight.

[1796] And I wonder, like, what's, I mean, having the knowledge of having faced Dominic, not just once but twice.

[1797] And especially the second time, he knocked him down a couple of times.

[1798] Yeah, very close fight.

[1799] Yeah, very close fight.

[1800] With Dominic, so we were to talk about this earlier.

[1801] So somebody says, go figure out, here's your guy, go figure out how to beat Dominic Cruz.

[1802] You have three years.

[1803] What the fuck do we do?

[1804] Leg kicks.

[1805] Yeah, leg kicks is going to be a big one.

[1806] Giant factor.

[1807] Slow those legs down.

[1808] I'm almost at all costs.

[1809] I think, first of all, you've got two things to consider.

[1810] One, Dominic is most likely not going to knock you out with one punch.

[1811] Yeah.

[1812] Okay, so he doesn't have the kind of knockout power that a Connor does where you really have to be terribly fearful about closing that distance.

[1813] So you know his number one asset is his movement.

[1814] Chop those legs, man. Chop those legs.

[1815] If I was him, I would go and train with the best Muay Thai leg kicker I could find.

[1816] I would seek them out.

[1817] I would say this is priority number one and maybe even, you know, concentrate on switching stances quite a bit because Dominic will switch stances quite a bit.

[1818] And if you're right, get switched stances and throw the power back leg kick from the southpaw position and from Orthodox, you know, that would open up those kicks and work on those combinations when Dominic is switching.

[1819] work on also going across the top of the thigh if he's not in the right position to throw the outside leg kick if you were ordinarily going to inside throw it like an outside but go across take that right step and go across the top of the thighs slick stuff yeah slick stuff so this is part of my McGregor breakdown but there's lots of little elements so but so it was Jeremy Stevens I was asking him about fighting Max Holloway and he's like I'm like you know these guys who move they're long they're going to be lateral all this kind of stuff, and he said, we have to keep him in the headlights, right?

[1820] So we're a car, and our headlights kind of go out on an angle.

[1821] If we keep them in that lit area of the headlights, that's great.

[1822] But he doesn't want to be there.

[1823] He wants to be outside of there.

[1824] So what do we do?

[1825] Small steps.

[1826] He's making grand movements, but if we keep our headlights lined up and we're working at angles the way a goalie looks at dealing with, like, something, we make small steps and small adjustments to keep him in the headlights.

[1827] Then when he goes to flee outside of there, quite simply, the right kick is the barrier.

[1828] that way, and the left kick is the barrier that way, and we kind of shoehorn them into our headlights as best as we can.

[1829] Faber's never really used leg kicks that way, but sure as fuck sounds like a great idea.

[1830] If we can just keep them in those headlights and as he goes to flee, that extra weapon of the leg starts to, if our headlights are a certain width, the leg becomes the barrier to keep him in there.

[1831] That's got to be a starting point.

[1832] How crazy it'd be if Faber reunited with Dwayne Ludwig.

[1833] If they buried all the bullshit, got together.

[1834] It's so crazy.

[1835] It wouldn't happen because now that he's with TJ and, you know, they've said so much bad shit about each other and I don't think it would, but it is too bad.

[1836] But he needs someone like that, you know.

[1837] He needs someone who's going to really tighten up those footwork movements and those leg kick movements.

[1838] But if we saw a totally different Uriah, imagine that.

[1839] He comes out, hands up high and just starts attacking those legs.

[1840] I mean, that would be wild.

[1841] It would be.

[1842] Oh, shit.

[1843] Again, with the memory.

[1844] Who's that Jorgensen?

[1845] When Uriah fought Jorgensen, that was my favorite performance ever, and that's the Dwayne Ludwig was cornering him.

[1846] And he did something we see T .J. do a lot.

[1847] I call it like a shell game or like a ball in cups.

[1848] Like, you know, we've got three cups, which one has the ball?

[1849] When T .J. changes his level, obviously that can be a takedown.

[1850] But it can also from there, he comes up with the right uppercut.

[1851] From the same spot, he comes up with the left high kick.

[1852] He has takedowns.

[1853] He has so many things.

[1854] And it all centers.

[1855] on that position, which just shows you how smart Dwayne is.

[1856] We have these wrestlers.

[1857] In wrestling, they have this level change spot.

[1858] That's going to be the home to many of our attacks.

[1859] And Uriot did that awesomely against Jorgensen.

[1860] Now, Jorgensen is not Dominic Cruz, but he did it so beautifully.

[1861] The level change became a starting point for like eight different options.

[1862] T .J. tried to use that with Cruz, but Dominic Cruz literally, one, when a magician, you're a magician, you're trying to do a trick on me, or a comedian tries to tell you a joke, you're like, I fucking heard all these jogs or I've seen all these tricks you a magician can't do that to another magician so Cruz just wouldn't play a ball and cup game he's like I'll dance around out here you chase me around put your ball and cups on like a little trolley and try to convince me to play it I'll just kick them off you know and so that that he's just different like and Cruz is so fucking smart like he's so brilliant you know and that that goes right back to that sort of growth mindset when the guy had fucked off legs he's like well I still got to get better I'll learn more about fighting.

[1863] I'll learn to explain it better.

[1864] I'll learn to analyze it better.

[1865] I'll make myself understand it more.

[1866] He used, instead of that being, well, two years down the tubes, it was like two years, I'm going to gain other skills and other applicable skills, and it made him way better.

[1867] He's way better because he had that surgery, you know, than if he just was in the gym and he never was forced to take that time.

[1868] Yeah, I bet you're probably right.

[1869] And he's one of my favorite analysts, the way he breaks down fights, especially when it comes to making mistakes and striking, leaving yourself open to get hit.

[1870] He's so good at not getting hit.

[1871] It's one of the best things he is so good at explaining how to not get hit or why someone made a mistake in getting hit.

[1872] Yeah.

[1873] Oh, he's so brilliant.

[1874] I love, it's funny, too.

[1875] It's like, I've met him like once.

[1876] When it was TJ and him, I was asking him about the fight.

[1877] And I could see him going, okay, this guy kind of knows about fighting because he doesn't give a fuck if you like him.

[1878] You know what I mean?

[1879] Dominic Cruz, I like that about him.

[1880] I like that about even the way he does analysis or commentary.

[1881] He doesn't really give a fuck.

[1882] You ask me to analyze some shit.

[1883] I'm going to analyze some shit.

[1884] He's doing it like mathematics.

[1885] Yeah, yeah.

[1886] One plus one is one, whether you like me or not.

[1887] Or one plus one is two.

[1888] See, I can't even count with that.

[1889] One plus one is one.

[1890] Yeah, fuck a good.

[1891] You know what I'm saying?

[1892] He's like, he's putting it together in a really clear, obvious manner.

[1893] And you don't have to enjoy his personality in order to appreciate the brilliance of what he's saying.

[1894] Yeah.

[1895] But I like his personality.

[1896] And I think he's a super smart, articulate guy.

[1897] We did a little bit of commentary together.

[1898] I saw it.

[1899] And I really enjoyed it.

[1900] I really enjoyed, like, being able to bounce ideas off of them and ask questions.

[1901] And I would like to do that with a bunch of different kind of fighters, too, because guys who aren't like him, maybe like a Damien Maya.

[1902] Like, one of my favorite when Damien Maya fought Neil Magnet.

[1903] Yeah.

[1904] I couldn't wait to interview him because I wanted to know what adjustments he was making when he couldn't tap him from his back.

[1905] and then he eventually did get it.

[1906] And he was explaining to me how he saw that he was defending on one side, so he started turning him towards the other side and setting him up to defend on that side so he could catch him on the other side.

[1907] Just so smart.

[1908] Oh, man, it's so important.

[1909] It's everything.

[1910] It's one of the most important things about MMA is analyzation of technique.

[1911] And having that fighter explain to you can, it illuminates things in such a beautiful way.

[1912] Like when I said, well, what did you see that was as, well, what I saw, whether he kept blocking on this side or he kept moving towards that so I was going to try to pretend that I was going to do the same thing I was doing before but set him up for a different thing and that level of like his skill level is so incredibly mind -bogglingly high it's so easy for him to think in there like a lot of guys guy in fight number three he's like eight no and it's UFC fight two it's like I gotta get the choke got to get the choke oh my god he's stopping the choke okay I'll try to get it on like it's just the thought processes isn't as clear and concise as Damian Maya who's like, all right, Jiu -Jitsu, I do this every day for my whole life and you don't.

[1913] You know what's interesting about Maya as opposed to anybody else, too.

[1914] He's really adamant about not wanting to hurt people.

[1915] He's like, you know, once I got him to the ground, you know, I throw a few punches just to open him up, but I really want to get the choke.

[1916] I don't want to hurt him.

[1917] I'm like, wow.

[1918] I don't want to hurt him.

[1919] Wild.

[1920] It's just like that is his real mentality.

[1921] He's not bullshitting.

[1922] He's not trying to get you to like him more but pretending to be more kind.

[1923] peaceful no he really is not trying to hurt you he's trying to he's just trying to win uh fighting isn't violence like it isn't it doesn't have to be it's competition yeah it happens to be violent yeah yeah it is competition it's violent it's violent when rumble johnson fights it's fucking yeah okay that's yeah that's true man he's so that the thing about rumble johnson that doesn't get enough uh people can't necessarily appreciate is how good he is like every Always got power.

[1924] Yes, he has power.

[1925] He has crazy power.

[1926] But he also, when you watch his hips and you watch his feet, he is in position to deliver power anywhere all the time.

[1927] And that, like, when you, we're trying to figure out, you know, how CM Punk is going to fight.

[1928] And I'll talk to people who've never trained or never studied training or whatever.

[1929] And they're like, well, it could be pretty good.

[1930] It's like, I can tell you exactly how good you can be at this stage.

[1931] Because if you look at the very best people you've ever watched, train with the best coaches at 18 months.

[1932] this is maybe what they're capable of and he's 36 or whatever and he's not a super athlete so it'll be a little lessen.

[1933] He's fucked.

[1934] Yeah, he's fucked, he's fucked.

[1935] He made a big...

[1936] I feel like, I feel for him because I looked at that when he started doing that I was like, I know exactly how he feels I wanted to fight, I wanted to figure it, I wanted to get in there.

[1937] But there's that thing unconscious incompetence, right?

[1938] Unconscious incompetence, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and you don't even know that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[1939] Yeah.

[1940] And if you learn enough, eventually you get conscious incompetence where you're like, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, but at least I know that so I can start learning some shit.

[1941] Then you'll get conscious competence where you're like, yeah, I'm pretty good.

[1942] I've got to think about it.

[1943] I consciously am working at it.

[1944] And then the greats are unconscious competence.

[1945] Yeah, I don't have to think.

[1946] Damien Maya doesn't have to fuck him.

[1947] The most that this, he was unconsciously incompetent when he said he wanted to fight in the UFC.

[1948] And I feel for him.

[1949] Like I feel the guy didn't know.

[1950] what he was doing.

[1951] It sounded like a cool thing.

[1952] He's a driven guy who believes you can achieve what you put your mind to and you work really hard.

[1953] He just was unconsciously incompetent.

[1954] He didn't have enough knowledge to know how much could be acquired what he might be capable of if he worked harder than anyone had ever worked in his life for 18 months.

[1955] He didn't understand how low that would be.

[1956] You know?

[1957] You still suck.

[1958] Yeah, you suck.

[1959] Yeah.

[1960] There's no way.

[1961] If you have no background in combat sports at all and you're 36 years old and you think you're going to fight in the UFC in a year, that's almost insulting.

[1962] Yeah, kudos to him for giving it a shot.

[1963] I understand the motivation.

[1964] But I got mocked and ridiculed and fucking ended up with a concussion when I did it on the smallest levels.

[1965] People who were in fighting, who the fuck is this guy to come into fighting?

[1966] So I feel for him that way.

[1967] I know he probably really loves fighting.

[1968] He just didn't know how shitty was the maximum he could get at this stage.

[1969] And that level of shittiness is not good enough to ever fight in the UFC, never mind debut in the UFS.

[1970] It's also, I don't think he's that much of an athlete.

[1971] No. Like when I watch him move, I watch his, there's nothing about him where I go like, well, okay, we're watching like a Brock Lesnar.

[1972] Brock Lesnar was a fucking freak athlete.

[1973] You would watch that guy.

[1974] I remember the first time I saw Brock fight.

[1975] I saw him fight.

[1976] I mean, I obviously had seen some videos of him in WWE doing some spectacular shit.

[1977] It was a physical specimen beyond compare, right?

[1978] But when I saw him fight in K -1, I was in LA when they fought and he took some Japanese gentlemen took him down just smashed him I remember thinking good luck keeping that motherfucker off you that's a totally different kind of a thing with this CM punk guy what you guys is a good looking guy who speaks well it's got a lot of charisma and that led him to the top in wrestling but if you watch his wrestling moves like there's nothing there's nothing ridiculous about it you look at his body there's nothing ridiculous about his body He's not doing anything out of the ordinary.

[1979] He just didn't understand how low, how little could be knowledge and skill could be acquired in the time that he was going to look at.

[1980] He just couldn't know.

[1981] Well, where is he at now?

[1982] Do you see him train?

[1983] I've seen a bit of it, you know, like it looks where you think a guy who worked really hard for a year and a half would be, which is okay if you just.

[1984] Let's watch some of it.

[1985] Yeah, I mean.

[1986] See if you can find CM Punk training.

[1987] Yeah.

[1988] What's that?

[1989] I've been looking right now.

[1990] They had no videos for many time recently.

[1991] There's like some stuff I'm looking at from August of last year.

[1992] try that.

[1993] The reason I brought him up when I was talking about Anthony Johnson is one of the first things that you find when you go and let's see what we got here, I'll tell you, what you find is that you can do these things, but as soon as a guy is moving, you're not in balance anymore.

[1994] As soon as you're in reality, you're not in balance.

[1995] I mean, athleticism stuff here.

[1996] This is not CM Punk though.

[1997] This is Luke Rockhold.

[1998] Oh, CM Punk train exos performance center?

[1999] Okay.

[2000] I mean, that's a guy working out.

[2001] You know?

[2002] Yeah.

[2003] That's it.

[2004] I saw him hitting pads at one point.

[2005] I looked like you would think.

[2006] Yeah, like this.

[2007] Like this, he's jumping up on these boxes.

[2008] Yeah, I mean, I don't know, man. I just, it's not a knock against him.

[2009] No. He just didn't know.

[2010] He was unconsciously incompetent.

[2011] It's a math.

[2012] It's like we were talking.

[2013] It's mathematics.

[2014] It's similar.

[2015] Okay, here we see his guard.

[2016] First of all, look at this.

[2017] He's a fucking white belt.

[2018] Yeah.

[2019] This is crazy.

[2020] And he's doing this with Hennar Gracie.

[2021] Okay, so he's doing some plank workouts.

[2022] It's an old video.

[2023] It's an old video.

[2024] I mean, two years, the reality is, unless you're 20 years old, two years is not really a lot of time to get prepared for something.

[2025] If you're a 20 -year -old guy, you can watch somebody's a blue belt at 20 years, and then in two years, they're a black belt.

[2026] That is possible.

[2027] If you're obsessed, if you're a fucking maniac, if you're a real nut, if you're some BJ Penn when he was in his prime.

[2028] but you know this guy probably likes pussy he likes to eat he's got bills he's got taxes he pays he's probably got media obligations you know it ain't that easy to become a complete fucking obsessed freak and then again the whole thing is like athletically his body did not develop to explode I have a good buddy of mine who's very good at jujitsu and I brought him to a boxing gym once and the guy was holding pads for him and I was like oh my god like watching him hit pads I was like fucking crazy he'll nail he's never gonna get it it's is there was like his body did not grow exploding like that yeah his body moved slow and it was labored it was like me trying to write a fucking book with my left hand it was like awkward and he just couldn't do it and i remember thinking like wow okay like these there's just they're just not there is this him here yeah i mean that you can tell that's a white belt who who has trained a bit You know?

[2029] That's not too bad.

[2030] Yeah, it's all right.

[2031] Is it, well.

[2032] But even the White Belt for Life thing, that smells of being trying not to be, you know.

[2033] What he says he's a White Belt for Life, what you're saying?

[2034] Yeah.

[2035] It reeks of not being judged.

[2036] And fighting is not a place you want to not be judged.

[2037] This is not bad.

[2038] Yeah.

[2039] This movement is not bad.

[2040] But he's training with Hennar Gracie, by the way, who's just a fucking wizard and an awesome instructor.

[2041] Okay, that's bullshit.

[2042] Yeah.

[2043] And there was space as he pushed that off too.

[2044] Yeah.

[2045] But, you know, it's, hey, man, if this guy was still wrestling and he loved fighting, it was talking about it, was fighting on a small scale, Batista fought.

[2046] And he had a great fight.

[2047] It was a really good fight for a guy who's only been training for a while.

[2048] And that's the way to do it.

[2049] Yeah, that's the way to do it.

[2050] A small organization, fight somebody who's like at your level.

[2051] Yeah.

[2052] The other thing that really bummed me out is that he just got back surgery.

[2053] Yeah.

[2054] Man, back surgery is fucking tricky as shit, man. They start chewing away at those discs.

[2055] There's other ways to handle that.

[2056] I don't know how bad it was, but the guy was walking around.

[2057] And Matt Brown had a good conversation about that recently.

[2058] I was reading some of the things that Matt Brown said about his own bulging discs because he didn't have to get surgery.

[2059] He rehabilitated it.

[2060] But he does a lot of work down at West Side Barbell with Louis Simmons, who created a reverse hyper, a machine that we have in the back here.

[2061] And I bought one specifically because I knew that Louis had designed it because they were trying to get him to have back surgery and he wasn't buying it.

[2062] And he was like, there's got to be a way, if there was a way to compress the disc to make it bulge out like that, there's got to be a way to decompress the disc actively and strengthen the area.

[2063] So he created that reverse hyper machine.

[2064] And you know, to see this guy go straight to back surgery like that, when just a few days before that he was standing there talking to that Mickey Gall kid.

[2065] Pick an area up.

[2066] Yeah, I mean, what the fuck is going on, man?

[2067] Why are you getting surgery?

[2068] Yeah.

[2069] You reviewed all the options?

[2070] Well, that end, you know, he was saying to Ariel I want to fight on either 199 or 200 I hope I got the juice to fight on 200 which is crazy you don't you shouldn't have any juice regardless of how famous you are.

[2071] The juice meaning the notoriety yeah I guess I don't know but are you lying to Ariel then because you knew you were having back surgery are you lying now that it was weeks before you saw this guy fight regardless I want to pick on the guy because I understand it's motivation but I think if somebody asked my opinion if his he was my friend and he said what do you think I should do I'd be like why don't you come out and have a long, interesting conversation with somebody.

[2072] Someone you know, Ariel's his friend, and say, listen, I went and I explored this for a long time.

[2073] I found some incredible things in fighting.

[2074] It gave me this.

[2075] I learned this stuff.

[2076] And what I discovered was there's no way I could fight.

[2077] That's crazy.

[2078] It would have been an insult to fighting.

[2079] And I learned enough to know it.

[2080] And now that I love it, I want to work for the UFC.

[2081] I want to do some other things.

[2082] I want to contribute.

[2083] People would look and go, honesty, right.

[2084] That's one of those things we never see.

[2085] It's so refreshing.

[2086] Just come out and say, I try.

[2087] my ass off and what I found was only a further appreciation for fucking everybody in this gym and all these fighters.

[2088] And I learned enough to understand that I barely know anything about fighting, but now that I love it, I want to do some other stuff in fighting.

[2089] We'd all probably go cool.

[2090] That's great.

[2091] That's what he should do.

[2092] Well, I don't think he can't fight.

[2093] I think he definitely could fight.

[2094] I don't think that a year is nearly enough time to fight in the UFC.

[2095] I think that's preposterous.

[2096] But I think anybody could fight at a commensurate level.

[2097] If you could find someone who is at your level, has been training as long as you have and have an amateur fight, there's absolutely nothing wrong with not being the best in the world or not being at a world championship or a world -class UFC level.

[2098] There's nothing wrong with that.

[2099] No, no, nothing at all.

[2100] I think when insults a lot of people is that he jumped right into the UFC and he did so because, not just because he has notoriety and when he was younger, he was a boxing champion or a wrestling champion like Brock was NCAA National Champion.

[2101] I mean, you got to look at Brock and go, hey, man, you know, maybe the guy can actually do it.

[2102] With him, you're like, you never wrestled in high school.

[2103] You never wrestled in college.

[2104] You're a white belt in jiu -jitsu.

[2105] You're a white belt in, like, what are you in karate?

[2106] What are you in Muay Thai?

[2107] And to not strike until you sign a contract.

[2108] That, to me, is insane.

[2109] You're having a conversation about maybe fighting in the UFC in two years.

[2110] You start training yesterday.

[2111] You don't wait and then figure out what gym.

[2112] They want a training striking.

[2113] that's insanity you know but i went to the right place yeah duke's amazing and he's such a wonderful dude grufus is the shit i mean that that gym is amazing he's got fantastic training there from daniel wandelet to uh ben aspirin to pedis to to duke himself who's just amazing coach kush scott kushman he's got a great gym i mean did that if if i was thinking about fighting that would be one of the places that i would consider yeah he did the right thing that tri -star Farras Ahby, Alliance, Matt Hume.

[2114] I just go to Matt Hume right on the spot.

[2115] Matt Hume's a fucking genius, man. He's a goddamn genius.

[2116] And he's the most low -key of all of them.

[2117] You don't hear a peep out of that guy.

[2118] Demetrius and him are like symbiotic.

[2119] Yeah.

[2120] Like Demetrius is, Matt Hume's cruising around the world, knows everything about fighting, fought himself, researched, study, loved the martial arts, pursuing it, looking for all the truths of martial arts.

[2121] And along comes this super athlete.

[2122] He's like, I'm going to invest a couple years, see if he really, oh, shit, he's really becoming, he learns incredibly well he's a good guy he's a smart person oh shit then once he gets to that level it's just like i'm going to commit my life to making you the champion and symbiotically matt trains with him physically trains with him like he's his training partner most of the time and he's a fucking genius that symbiotic one -on -one thing there isn't much of that in the world there's not many fighters that have one brilliant coach that commits most of their time to it's hard to find someone who's willing to do that and then forget about someone who has the knowledge and the ability that Hume has because he's not just a knowledgeable guy, but he's very similar in Farras's a hobby in that he's not just incredibly knowledgeable but he's also incredibly physically capable.

[2123] Like Farras is fucking nasty.

[2124] He's got nasty kickboxing skills and nasty jiu -jitsu.

[2125] I mean, and his knowledge is very deep and wide.

[2126] And I think the same thing can be said of Matt Hume it's so rare to find a guy like those two guys.

[2127] I admire Farras and I like him very much and I just spoke with him the other day on the phone before I went in to do the McGregor one, he was working on something with McGregor, and I love the man, he's brilliant.

[2128] But the one difference is he's got 50 students.

[2129] And he makes them great, and he gives them real time, and he dedicates himself to them.

[2130] But this guy's basically one of a handful.

[2131] That is crazy.

[2132] But for us also seems to be, that is such an interesting, martial arts seems to have this interesting path where you come along and you learn some moves, and then you learn kind of how it works.

[2133] and then you do work on your body, and then you learn how to learn, and then you learn strategy, and then all these things grow, and inevitably you end up at a mental thing, and then philosophy.

[2134] Study of martial arts ends up somewhere the study of philosophy, how to live your life, how to learn, how to improve, how to become better in being a human being, not just in kickboxing.

[2135] Like that inevitable result, if you stay on the martial arts path long enough, inevitably you end up, how can I be a better person?

[2136] Like, how can I get better at being a human being?

[2137] And for us is there.

[2138] Well, you find that those things are part of what trips people up.

[2139] You know, part of what trips you up and anything you do is if you have personality flaws, if you create problems in relationships and interrelationship conflict, problems with friends, problem with wife or girlfriend or what have you, those things that make you a bad neighbor will also make you a bad fighter because they get in your way and you realize you've created this unnecessary kind you you know yell that your fucking neighbor for no reason because there's dog shit in your lawn or whatever fuck it is like you you created a problem that didn't need to be there and now you've got you've got extra friction and conflict in your life that's unnecessary instead of creating some sort of a positive bond by being a really good person so you learn you know again no one's perfect but you learn somewhere along those lines okay if i just approach this in a better more you know more friendly more open more nice and then I get this positive reward out of that and then I realize that's the path the path is to try to be a better person the path is to try to have more character the path is to try to be a better friend to be a you know a better training partner you know to make sure that you are pushing your friend towards victory you're not trying to kick his ass because you know he's tired you know that's a real issue in gyms right when they run a gauntlet having a guy that is going to wear you out but it's not going to fuck you up because he knows he can because he knows you're tired because you just ran with three other guys before one thing you should drive me crazy where i would be training and i would be exhausted and i would see a guy sitting down waiting taking the time off of training not training that round and then as soon as this round is done he tries to jump on you i'm like you're just sitting down why are you just sitting down and i'll call them out i'll go what are you doing you want to rest and then you want to jump in while you're fresh and other people are tired fuck off man for sure yeah i remember sparring with a guy and after i looked he was wearing like novelty boxing gloves like everybody showed up to sparring and he had a little like it's like are you out of your fucking mind like you're looking for an edge over people you're working with you know it's so strange but uh those guys are almost always not good yeah but sometimes good enough to hurt you there's this guy that i used to love working with i just really like there's a lot of guys in canada that kind of being like I kind of get to admire them over time because they were pioneers and maybe some of them weren't even in the UFC.

[2140] Some of them got there, Claude Patrick, Sean Pearson, some of those guys who were important Canadian pioneers, Hominic and Pat Cote, all those guys.

[2141] Joe Dirkson, who's a cool dude.

[2142] Sure.

[2143] You admire those guys.

[2144] One of them, he never got to the UFC and he's in his probably close to 40 now, Adrian Woolley, and he was like the best 1 -25 ever going.

[2145] And when I would go and I had a fight coming up, I wanted some rounds with Wully.

[2146] And the reason I wanted them was, one, he would push you really hard, but two, he hurt me one time, and he's very aggressive, and he hurt me one time, and my leg wobbled, and as I circled, I saw him take the time to let me recover.

[2147] And that's literally the perfect training partner.

[2148] You want him to push you so hard as close to a fight as you can handle right now and understand what you can handle, but not take you past that point of what you can have.

[2149] Be a friend.

[2150] Yeah, and he was literally, and he was ornery and aggressive.

[2151] loved having him in the rotation in the last week before a fight or a couple weeks of real training before a fight because of that there's just like training training partners some gyms have um try star has some guys they don't fight but man they're a huge important ingredient to every one of those fighters right you know you were talking about your getting that concussion in jordan me and he just retired he's really young yeah you know his dad just fought recently.

[2152] His dad's like 45, just enormous.

[2153] And won, and his dad is a cool dude.

[2154] I don't know exactly.

[2155] We talked to Jordan after...

[2156] He's like 25, right?

[2157] Yeah, he's got like 30 plus fights.

[2158] Yeah, he's fucking talented.

[2159] He's super talented.

[2160] You see what he did to Mike Pyle?

[2161] Yeah.

[2162] You know what I mean?

[2163] Mike Pyle's brilliant.

[2164] Mike Pyle's a super fighter.

[2165] Well, what he was doing at Tiago Alves before he took that body kick and props to Tiago for figuring away through that first round and landing that body kick and taking him out.

[2166] But, and then for me and retire like that, was really shocking.

[2167] My, I'm guessing.

[2168] So what I'm going to say is in time.

[2169] I know Jordan.

[2170] I like Jordan very, very much.

[2171] His father and I are very good friends.

[2172] Uh, I'm guessing.

[2173] But there are, I picked up bits and pieces of him kind of figuring out, well, I'll get paid real good money when I'm kind of at the top.

[2174] And then it's like, wait a second.

[2175] I'm fighting like top five guys.

[2176] I'm fighting like Tiago Alves level guys.

[2177] I'm there.

[2178] Jordan wants to be rich.

[2179] bitch.

[2180] And Jordan wants to be successful in life in some of those ways.

[2181] And at least he's told me that.

[2182] And he didn't say anything about pay or any of that stuff.

[2183] But it was like he was, he's right at the top and he's not becoming wealthy enough for what he's doing.

[2184] That's my guess.

[2185] And he loves fighting.

[2186] But one day he loved other stuff too.

[2187] He's like, you know what?

[2188] I didn't.

[2189] Again, I'm guessing.

[2190] But a guy like him was like, you know, I didn't have as much sex in high school as a lot of other guys did because I was training all the time.

[2191] You know, I didn't go on fishing trips as much as other guys because I was training all the time.

[2192] You know, drinking beer on Saturdays is really fun.

[2193] Like all of those things happen.

[2194] You're 25.

[2195] You're like, you know, and man, having the guts, the smartness to identify and the guts to quit something, we all as a society think that like don't quit anything.

[2196] You're driven.

[2197] You do it for life.

[2198] To really analytically look and go, this will not give me what I want, even if I achieve the results I will achieve I don't want or are not enough for me. so I will step away.

[2199] I admire that.

[2200] Like, fucking rock bands and I'm trying to think of somebody in particular, Aerosmith or someone like that.

[2201] What the fuck is this guy still doing, going up there playing?

[2202] He might love it.

[2203] But why is he on American Idol?

[2204] He needs to still be on TV or he needs an audience or he needs to be worshipped or whatever.

[2205] You made all the money.

[2206] You made all the great records.

[2207] Go and sit on a beach somewhere.

[2208] People who go, you know, I've done enough of this stuff.

[2209] I think I would move on to other stuff.

[2210] We should admire those people because they're really rare.

[2211] You know?

[2212] They are.

[2213] They are really rare.

[2214] But it's just me and was so talented.

[2215] You know, another guy like that that vanished is Adlon Amagov.

[2216] Yeah, right.

[2217] Yeah.

[2218] Yeah, I don't know what happened to me. He became very religious.

[2219] And I heard that he was going to be, I'd heard some rumors that he was going to be a cleric or something like that.

[2220] Wow.

[2221] Because he was a pretty devout Muslim.

[2222] I don't know what happened.

[2223] But he was another guy.

[2224] You're like, wow, that guy was so talented.

[2225] I used to manage some UFC fighters, a couple.

[2226] all the way up.

[2227] So it was really to learn.

[2228] Like everything I could do to learn any angle, a fight or manage, or if I could carry the bucket, whatever I could do I wanted to do.

[2229] And I came across this guy, Nick Deney.

[2230] Do you ever remember, Nick?

[2231] Yeah, Dini?

[2232] Sure.

[2233] And I managed Nick, and we got him to the UFC.

[2234] We got Sean Shelby fucking loved Nick.

[2235] And you should.

[2236] If you go and watch his first fight, or his fights in the UFC, he fought like a caveman.

[2237] The guy has a master's degree in biochemistry, I think.

[2238] He's brilliant.

[2239] But when he fought, he loved fighting like a cave.

[2240] man. And he retired because he said it was taking head trauma.

[2241] Yeah, he did.

[2242] He didn't like it.

[2243] Yeah.

[2244] And he, we talked about it and he talked with other people about it.

[2245] It's like, could I fight different ways?

[2246] Yes, but he likes fighting like a caveman.

[2247] And fighting like a caveman will result in brain damage.

[2248] He got knocked out by Marlon Sandro in Singoku.

[2249] And then he said, after he recovered from that one, he said, you know, if I ever get another concussion, I'm going to retire.

[2250] And then after.

[2251] the last fight he had, he had a broken orbital bone.

[2252] And he thought, why am I waiting until after I've sustained the damage to step away?

[2253] Why am I saying it's okay to take one more large amount of damage?

[2254] If I'm going to step away, let's just go.

[2255] Let's step away.

[2256] He's a brilliant guy, one of the most interesting or cool guy.

[2257] I haven't talked to him in a while.

[2258] I'm going to make sure to send him a call or something.

[2259] He's such a brilliant guy.

[2260] Very, very smart guy.

[2261] And he's a guy I always use an example of someone who's very wise in recognizing the risk versus reward.

[2262] Realizing the reward's not worth it anymore.

[2263] I need to.

[2264] Yep.

[2265] And there's going to come a time for all these guys.

[2266] They have to decide, like, when it is it over?

[2267] You know, when we were talking about the pursuit, like getting after something and being obsessed with something and wanting greatness, there comes a time that's no longer in your mind.

[2268] And you're still on this path because it's something you've always done.

[2269] Because you've been a fighter for X amount of years.

[2270] And so this is what you're doing.

[2271] You're going into training camp, but you don't have that fire.

[2272] inside you like you did when you first started or when you were improving or when you were at your best and that's when you need to stop yeah the it's just so hard for people it's really hard the one of the things i've heard before is people will um pauli malinagia i never pronounce the name well who's actually a brilliant commentator very very fucking good love listening to his comment he's one of my favorites in boxing very good um he uh wrote an article about how his passion and desire to get back to fighting and everyone told him he shouldn't but it's just enemy needs that that cannot be the motivating factor among the reasons that that's a hundred percent true it can't be is because when you're 60 you're still going to have that that's never going to go away so that just having that does not mean go fight because you'll always have that it's one of many pieces of a pie chart that you have to have in place yes but if you're going to have it your whole life it's irrelevant whether you have it or not because you know you have it and one day you're going to have to retire even though you have it.

[2273] So that can't be a part of the decision process.

[2274] I think you probably didn't see that Rocky movie when Rocky was like 59 and he decided, you know, just thinking about maybe having a fight.

[2275] Remember that?

[2276] Yeah.

[2277] That was the one where he was Who the fuck did he?

[2278] Yeah.

[2279] Tommy Gunn?

[2280] No, no, no, no. It was after that.

[2281] Oh, yeah.

[2282] Was it?

[2283] The one where he fought the guy who knocked out Roy Jones Jr. Oh, yeah, yeah, Tarver.

[2284] Tarver.

[2285] Tarver.

[2286] Tarver.

[2287] Magic Man. And, you know, which was fucking ridiculous And apparently he got knocked out in training And training for that Like at like 60, whatever the hell he was Getting punched in the face by Tarver When we're, yeah, insane When we're looking at Anderson Silva fighting He's one of his very favorite fighters Is Roy Jones Jr. There it is.

[2288] Look at that.

[2289] Come on, son.

[2290] What the fuck are we even looking at?

[2291] That's insane.

[2292] And he was like 70 years old And he looks 30.

[2293] Yeah, I mean, it's amazing what testosterone replacement therapy is done for him.

[2294] But, like, it just, the fact that he could try to sell that.

[2295] Jesus, look at him.

[2296] He shredded.

[2297] Incredible.

[2298] Yeah.

[2299] How old was he when he made this movie?

[2300] In his 50s?

[2301] At least.

[2302] 2006, so 10 years ago.

[2303] At least.

[2304] How old is he now?

[2305] I'm not sure.

[2306] Let's find out how old he is now, because that would mean that he had to be like 57 then, I think.

[2307] Yeah, if he's 67 now.

[2308] So he's 59.

[2309] Oh, my God.

[2310] That's insane.

[2311] That's science, man. That's science.

[2312] Jesus Christ.

[2313] I love, this is so, he's so, it's so insane.

[2314] People always try to say he's 5 '6.

[2315] I'm 5 '8.

[2316] I stood next to that dude and maybe he had lifts in his shoes, but he's, he's taller than me. Really?

[2317] Yeah, everybody always tries to pretend he's so tiny.

[2318] That's some weird thing that people do.

[2319] You know, they always try to pretend that people are tinier than they are.

[2320] Oh, he's only like 5 .5.

[2321] Yeah, he's only like 3 feet tall.

[2322] I am 5 .8.

[2323] I don't wear lifts in my shoes.

[2324] I never have.

[2325] I have terrible posture.

[2326] I'm short as fuck.

[2327] I'm five, six.

[2328] But when I stood next to him, he's bigger than me. I expected him to be what everybody says.

[2329] Like, I want to meet Tom Cruise because everybody says he's tiny too.

[2330] He might not be tiny either.

[2331] I don't know why that would be something that people do, but whatever it's perceived as undermining, people just tend to do that.

[2332] People love doing that.

[2333] They love doing that.

[2334] You realize you don't have to do that.

[2335] Like, when you see people, you know, Rhonda comes out and says that she had a horrific experience, People are like, yeah, fuck her.

[2336] And then when you're like, you know, why are you reacting this way?

[2337] They're like, well, she brought it on herself.

[2338] But yeah, but you're still choosing to have that response.

[2339] You could easily have a different response.

[2340] You could easily have a different perspective.

[2341] Yeah, but that's a long path to improvement for an asshole.

[2342] You're like trying to improve a troll with one sentence.

[2343] That's like not going to happen.

[2344] There's a lot of people also their life sucks and they see someone who's doing as good as she was doing when she was on the top.

[2345] I mean, what was it, Sports Illustrated called her the most dominant female athlete is of all time?

[2346] and, you know, there's just so much hype and fanfare.

[2347] And then also there's all the shitty things that she was saying to her opponents and the way she was talking to them.

[2348] And like the Misha Tate thing when she did the show with her and she would win the competitions.

[2349] She'd be like, fuck you.

[2350] And after the, she beat her, she walked away and wouldn't shake her hand.

[2351] There was so much fuel for the haters.

[2352] But it still feels like you don't have a choice but must hate.

[2353] Like you do have a choice.

[2354] Of course.

[2355] Of course.

[2356] I just feel like sometimes when we save you.

[2357] these things and I do it all the time.

[2358] I'm guilty of it as charged, but it's almost like you're yelling out into the abyss.

[2359] Yeah, right.

[2360] Yeah, I guess.

[2361] I just, all you can do is hope that you keep offering up that there is another choice than that.

[2362] But we also have a binary culture.

[2363] There was this article I read, the Tinderization of America.

[2364] Where are they going to swipe?

[2365] Yes, yep, want a fucker.

[2366] Or left.

[2367] Nope, don't.

[2368] And that thought process, that binary process, has actually influenced how our culture things.

[2369] Ronda Rousey is either the greatest athlete ever or she fucking sucks and she's terrible.

[2370] She can lose and still be the greatest athlete ever.

[2371] She can still be a 99 out of 100.

[2372] But we can't have that in our culture.

[2373] She's a left swipe or a right swipe.

[2374] And people only want one or the other.

[2375] There's gray areas in everything in the world.

[2376] And the gray area is where the beauty is.

[2377] It's where the interesting, fascinating shit is and where our culture is making it so that we don't look there.

[2378] Because of that swipe, though, is why a real winner like Connor is so spectacular.

[2379] Because with the amount of scrutiny, with the amount of pressure that's on him, to still perform the way he did and win in 13 seconds by knockout, then you are the hero.

[2380] And then that's also why people were shitting on Aldo after that fight so badly.

[2381] Right.

[2382] Aldo was the greatest pound for pound.

[2383] Now he's terrible.

[2384] No, he's still among the greatest.

[2385] He had a decade of being the greatest.

[2386] Maybe he's now been surpassed by somebody.

[2387] It's a long career, a lot of damage took.

[2388] A lot of hard fights.

[2389] Plus the gym wars.

[2390] Oh, yeah.

[2391] And you talk about how they trained back then.

[2392] Oh, yeah.

[2393] He used to live in the gym, probably trained all day every day.

[2394] His body's all broken down.

[2395] Sparring with Andy Sauer on a regular basis.

[2396] I mean, Sauer is like an all -time K -1 great.

[2397] By the way, that was Carlos Connett's first kickboxing.

[2398] Yeah, I saw that.

[2399] Yeah, I saw that.

[2400] What fucking crazy is that?

[2401] He's got zero fights.

[2402] He fought a guy with a hundred fights.

[2403] Unbelievable.

[2404] fucking sane.

[2405] I loved, I watched much of that podcast that you did with him.

[2406] And, I mean, I'm, he is, you were saying Van der Leigh would be one of your three favorites.

[2407] Those things do change every time we would talk.

[2408] We would have different ones thinking differently.

[2409] But Cond is absolutely one of my friends.

[2410] Yeah, he's a tough, tough guy.

[2411] That fifth round with Lawler was just insane.

[2412] I thought he won that fight.

[2413] It was very close.

[2414] Very close fight.

[2415] Very close fight.

[2416] Yeah.

[2417] That one, yeah, I mean, what I thought was beautiful, it didn't really fucking matter.

[2418] matter to him.

[2419] Like he was searching, he was seeking that fight and he had that fight.

[2420] And what three guys sitting at the side think doesn't take anything away from the 25 minute brilliant experience that he had that will affect him positively for the rest of his life.

[2421] Yeah.

[2422] You know, and would he like to do it again?

[2423] Maybe.

[2424] Maybe that was, you know, I don't know, man. He's only got a few more left in him, I think.

[2425] You know, I think Carlos is a really smart guy.

[2426] And I think he's also got a lot of the things that he could do with his life.

[2427] He's very intelligent.

[2428] And what made him such a great fighter would make him great at anything he chooses to do.

[2429] And I think he's got a realistic perception of how much longer his body can go through those kind of training camps and those kind of fights.

[2430] Yeah.

[2431] I mean, Andy Sauer was his first.

[2432] It's insane.

[2433] That's insane.

[2434] He loved it.

[2435] Yeah, I know.

[2436] I saw that.

[2437] He said, you know, it was such a great experience for him.

[2438] He gave me one of the great quotes when I was trying to figure out more about fighting.

[2439] And And it was actually relevant to what we're saying about Dominic Cruz, and you're talking about, we showed the footwork drills and how he moves.

[2440] And I asked Condet because he's like that, and he's very special, you know, and I said, when you're doing that, when you go into fight, are you working with pre -planned sequences, so you'll run sequence A twice or three times on Robbie, and when he starts reacting to sequence A, you'll trick him with sequence B. Are you running these things?

[2441] Are you improvising what's happening?

[2442] And the way he put it was brilliant.

[2443] He said, some of the time I'm reading the sheet music, and I'm just reading.

[2444] in the sheet music and playing it.

[2445] And other times I just go off on a solo and I just improvise.

[2446] And Stephen Thompson, McGregor, Cruz, Holly, that's what their best are doing.

[2447] They have sheet music.

[2448] Some nights the sheet music's going to be killer.

[2449] Everybody's going to applaud.

[2450] It's going to be fantastic.

[2451] Other times you've got to go off on some crazy jazz odyssey to make it work.

[2452] And sometimes they're a bit of both.

[2453] Well, that was a big thing with Anderson, is recognizing where those patterns were and being able to create something in the moment.

[2454] Yeah, yeah.

[2455] What do you think about Anderson versus Bisping?

[2456] Like I was saying, Roy Jones Jr. is one of his favorites.

[2457] And you saw what happened to Roy Jones when he got older.

[2458] It will happen eventually.

[2459] Is it now or is it in a year or is it in five years?

[2460] It's going to happen.

[2461] I mean, I have, I played a troll game with Anderson Silva and not with him.

[2462] But Sherdog used to ask for predictions.

[2463] And I just picked against Anderson on everyone because everybody was picking Anderson.

[2464] I thought it was funny.

[2465] I mean, Stefan Bonner is going to defeat Anderson Silva and be considered the greatest.

[2466] It was comedy.

[2467] So people, friends who know me or people who follow our channel know that.

[2468] So when I say I think Bisping's going to win, they think I'm just still playing that.

[2469] But I do probably think that when we picture Anderson Silva, we're picturing him in there against Forrest in the greatest moments.

[2470] And that's not what I expect him to be.

[2471] I don't expect him to be like that anymore.

[2472] The fact that he was one of the greatest fighters of all time, and brilliant and beautiful to watch and did incredible things, that's not diminished in any way.

[2473] Yeah, but what's fucked up is that wasn't that long ago.

[2474] What's really crazy about him was Stefan Bonner was like, what was that, 2013?

[2475] Yeah, 12 or 13.

[2476] So four years ago, he was the wizard.

[2477] He was the greatest of all time.

[2478] Now, he's barely hanging on.

[2479] He took a whole year off.

[2480] He fought Wyman twice.

[2481] Broke his leg in half.

[2482] Right.

[2483] Took a whole year off.

[2484] We also broke his leg and then tested positive.

[2485] after the Diaz fight, took that year off.

[2486] Exactly.

[2487] So he's, you know, he's in some weird place right now.

[2488] We don't know what his body's going to be like.

[2489] We don't know, you know, you know, Bisping's accusing him to taking steroids this whole career.

[2490] That could be partly games and shit, or he might know something, you know.

[2491] I don't know.

[2492] All of those things hint to me point towards not expecting him to be his best.

[2493] And if he's not his best, Michael Bisping is the most underappreciated, underrated, undervalued by his opponents, tough, fundamentally.

[2494] really good.

[2495] He's not going anywhere.

[2496] He's got hard, smart punches, not knockout punches, but enough to make you aware.

[2497] Everything he does is intelligent, well -placed.

[2498] He can get emotional, and that might be something Anderson will want to play with.

[2499] But, I mean, I just don't, I'm not imagining Anderson Silva from his highlight reels.

[2500] I'm imagining a guy who had his leg broken and a half lost twice.

[2501] 100 % of the fights he's had since then, which was the Diaz fights.

[2502] He didn't have brilliant performances.

[2503] So we haven't seen him have really a brilliant performance since Eushen O 'Kalmi years back.

[2504] Now, could he come out and be mind -blowing?

[2505] That'd be amazing.

[2506] Yeah.

[2507] Well, Bonner was his last fight before.

[2508] I guess I'm kind of undervalier.

[2509] Well, Eushin was a spectacular performance.

[2510] And he had many of them.

[2511] And just because I played, picked against him for a comedy, I don't want my friends of ours or people watch Fight Network to think I don't like him.

[2512] Well, he's 40.

[2513] Yeah, exactly.

[2514] He's 40.

[2515] He's 40.

[2516] I mean, unless you're on some shit, 40 is 40.

[2517] And it's hard to be on shit now.

[2518] Almost impossible Almost impossible Listen Robin We ran out of time Those three hours Just ran through three hours It's crazy We just Blal la la la la And we did it Thanks brother We gotta do this more often Let me know when you're in town again Let me know when your breakdown of Connor McGregor And Hafeld dos angios goes live I'll tweet it We'll get it out to people Thanks brother Thank you brother I appreciate it very much All right folks See you guys on Sunday With the fight companion Much love Bye bye