Molly McNearney

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert, experts, huh, expert.

[1] I'm Randall Shepard, I'm joined by Lily Padman.

[2] Hi there.

[3] And we have one of our absolute buddies, our dearest buddies on today.

[4] So fun.

[5] Molly McNierney, she, of course, is the co -head writer and executive producer of Jimmy Kimmel Live.

[6] Yes.

[7] She's also married to Jimmy Kimmel inside Scoop.

[8] Mm -hmm.

[9] And a part of many of my vacations.

[10] Yeah, she is a real.

[11] forced to be reckoned with.

[12] A powerhouse writer.

[13] She also writes on the primetime Emmys, the Oscars, murder mystery.

[14] She's prolific and insanely talented.

[15] And I adore so much.

[16] This was really fun.

[17] So fun.

[18] So glad she came by.

[19] All right, please enjoy Molly McNierney.

[20] He's an hot water.

[21] I do hot water.

[22] Oh, I love that.

[23] It's like Howard Stern drinks, you know.

[24] Hot water.

[25] Oh, really?

[26] Yes.

[27] All he drinks.

[28] Cut out coffee.

[29] Tee, everything, just hot water.

[30] It's so sad.

[31] It's a little sad.

[32] It's a little sad.

[33] I also like being in his company.

[34] Yeah, it's good company.

[35] Hi.

[36] We had a great difference this morning.

[37] Oh, not really.

[38] It's like only our fourth and six years, so.

[39] Oh, that's not bad.

[40] It's a tiny one.

[41] It happens.

[42] You mean I have those all the time.

[43] Well, yeah.

[44] That's hard.

[45] And similarly, we're best friends and we're co -workers.

[46] So, like normally, you know, normally, you know, You can get into it at work.

[47] Like, well, whatever.

[48] Weekends here.

[49] It'll blow over by Monday.

[50] But no, we're going to the same place on Saturday.

[51] Yeah, right, right.

[52] Yeah, it's got to be figured out.

[53] And maybe it's good because it's like, it has to be addressed.

[54] So in that way, maybe it's good.

[55] But also, it's tricky.

[56] In some ways, it's good, but in some ways it's bad.

[57] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[58] This is what the fucking creative difference is about.

[59] Right, right, right, right.

[60] Oh, good.

[61] I'm excited.

[62] Exciting me in the middle of it.

[63] Did you get everything you want to drink?

[64] You want to call it?

[65] Water, actually.

[66] You got like that.

[67] Oh, thank you.

[68] Perfect.

[69] Let us know if you want us to heat it up.

[70] Oh, yeah.

[71] I was just telling her that Howard Stern just drinks hot water.

[72] It's all he drinks.

[73] Oh, really?

[74] Yeah, he deprives himself of flavor.

[75] You know, we just were interviewing somebody, and they had worked with Howard.

[76] I think they took his on -air persona a little seriously.

[77] Mind you, certainly, she worked with him longer than I've hung out with him.

[78] But I was like, you know, I think he's very mindful of not alienating his audience and that they know he's got $500 million.

[79] So the only way he can right size that is he has to be miserable everywhere he goes.

[80] Interesting.

[81] On air, right?

[82] Because I'll hear these reports of even vacations he's been on with you.

[83] He's like, and then I had to go to bed and this sucked.

[84] And I'm like, I've been with him.

[85] There's no way that was the case.

[86] He was probably happy as a clam.

[87] And then I think, like, it must be a strategy to never be too unrelatable.

[88] I think there's truth to that.

[89] I also think he is kind of miserable.

[90] Interesting.

[91] Like, we were just in a house for his 70th birthday.

[92] And the first thing he says, like, I can't believe I'm 70.

[93] And he's so upset that he's 70.

[94] He's apologizing to his wife for being 70.

[95] And I don't think he enjoys it.

[96] I was telling Monica, I just wanted to, like, you're Howard Stern.

[97] Look at your life.

[98] Also, you're healthy.

[99] You've got a great wife.

[100] You're surrounded by love.

[101] It's really hard when you have friends, you think you're convincing to be happy.

[102] Yes.

[103] Yes, but then you must ask yourself the question, with contentment and happiness, is he Howard Stern?

[104] Like, what part of it is the fuel for the thing?

[105] Totally.

[106] Because then what's the content?

[107] Yes.

[108] Yes.

[109] And then I guess you're making a decision in your life, like, what am I going to prioritize?

[110] And hopefully you'd be healthy and you'd be like, at least at this point, maybe I'm going to prioritize my life.

[111] Absolutely.

[112] And say goodbye to the content or whatever.

[113] But God, I love his content so much.

[114] I need to be miserable.

[115] Yeah.

[116] I will say it's a fluke.

[117] I think it's bad thinking because we have some friends who are very negative and it is not helping them.

[118] Right.

[119] So this idea that it's relatable to me negative, I just want to put a big X. through that.

[120] We have our...

[121] I got mad the other day about it.

[122] You did.

[123] Every time you text, if 99 % of the time you're going to hear something negative, I can handle that up to a certain extent, but I do snap after a while.

[124] Sure.

[125] That's good, I think.

[126] I think it's healthy to snap with that.

[127] Minimally, it makes you not want to reach out.

[128] Yeah, of course.

[129] What do you think is one of the negative things you use to motivate yourself?

[130] Because I have a bevy of them.

[131] I never think I'm doing enough.

[132] I'm never doing enough for my career.

[133] I'm never doing enough for my children.

[134] I'm never doing enough for me. And I constantly am telling myself that.

[135] The most bonded I felt to Lincoln yet was we were laying in bed the other day and we were talking about like embarrassing moments.

[136] And she loves hearing my embarrassing moments.

[137] She's like, give me another one.

[138] What's another thing?

[139] And then so I was like, well, some are yours.

[140] And she's like, oh, I farted at school and blah, blah, and then I this and that.

[141] And I was great.

[142] And I go, okay.

[143] And then when you do that, do you ever say anything to yourself in your head?

[144] And she goes, oh my God, dad, I say the meanest stuff to myself.

[145] And I'm like, I do too.

[146] What do you say?

[147] And like, instead of telling her not to do it, I was just like, I want to hear what your racket is.

[148] And I'm like, here's mine.

[149] And both of us had really inappropriate words one shouldn't say it out loud.

[150] To yourself.

[151] To ourselves.

[152] That's so sad.

[153] But also so great that you can ask her that and she can tell you that.

[154] Yeah, it felt just really bonding.

[155] Like, we're similar.

[156] Yeah.

[157] I beat myself up pretty good.

[158] But then I'm really good at helping other people.

[159] not beat themselves up.

[160] I'm always telling my friends, you're a terrible friend to yourself.

[161] Why would you speak about yourself that way?

[162] I can see it with everyone else when it comes to me. No. Giving advice you need yourself.

[163] Exactly.

[164] I'm really good at that.

[165] I'm so excited that you're here.

[166] Are you nervous?

[167] I am nervous.

[168] I'm not nervous.

[169] I don't seem it.

[170] No, I'm really excited to be here.

[171] As you know, I'm such a fan of this podcast and such a fan of both of you.

[172] It really is hard for us to believe, and I say that sincerely.

[173] It's not full modesty.

[174] It's hard to believe people that you know and are close with.

[175] And respect enormously would really be listening.

[176] Yeah.

[177] No, I listen regularly.

[178] I love all of you.

[179] And I feel like I need to just get this out at the beginning because I think this will help me be less nervous.

[180] Dax intimidates me. Yeah.

[181] Wait, starting when?

[182] Okay.

[183] So Dax has been in my life for, I think, 13 years.

[184] The whole ride.

[185] Yeah, I've been with Jimmy for 13 years.

[186] I knew Kristen before you.

[187] We were friends and would go on these girls' dinners and love her.

[188] For some reason, Dax intimidates me. I think I found him more intimidating as I've gotten to know him.

[189] better.

[190] Wow, that seems counterintuitive.

[191] Right.

[192] I feel, and this is going to sound douchey.

[193] I don't mean it to sound douchey, but I'm using these in context to compliment you.

[194] I'm not star -struck by people.

[195] I just came from Howard Stern's home.

[196] I've had Oprah over for dinner.

[197] I've had Diane Sawyer in my home.

[198] Rihanna in your bed.

[199] Yeah, Rihanna's been in my bed.

[200] I've had an intimate dinner with Paul McCartney.

[201] I've gone to the White House.

[202] None of those things scare me. You intimidate me. I find that, as you might imagine, almost impossible to believe.

[203] And I don't want to intimidate you, yet I'm also very flattered by that for whatever reason.

[204] And I was trying to figure it out.

[205] And I was talking to me, I'm like, I don't know what it is.

[206] I really didn't come here just to compliment Dax.

[207] Okay.

[208] I won't allow that to go on for another five minutes.

[209] I'm not here just to blow smoke up Dax's ass.

[210] But I think it's because you are an anomaly of a human.

[211] And I mean this, I've witnessed you, we've been on vacation there.

[212] You've got a home.

[213] You are a guy who like drives a giant bus and can fix it, but then have emotionally in -depth conversations with a little girl.

[214] And then you quote Renee Brown and then you get on a motorbike.

[215] You bring weights with you on vacation and lift them, but then you write in your gratitude journal.

[216] It's very confusing to me. Okay, so maybe it's just the unsettling.

[217] You have to stop.

[218] Be more of a stereotype.

[219] Pick a lane.

[220] I think it's also because you talk to so many people and you know so much.

[221] I think you're incredibly intelligent both of you, and you're both very emotionally evolved humans.

[222] And so when I'm around you, I almost think, like, what could I have to offer or something?

[223] I don't know.

[224] And I'm a very confident person, healthy.

[225] But there's something about you.

[226] I go, well, well, what could we possibly talk about?

[227] So then when Monica emails me like, hey, you should come to the podcast, I was like, oh, my God, this is my worst nightmare.

[228] Yeah, for backstory, she said, can we chat tomorrow?

[229] And I was like, of course, but I wasn't expecting that.

[230] I said to my friend, I said, if she is calling to say she doesn't think she's, quote worthy of being on this show, I'm going to freak out.

[231] You're going to really let her have it.

[232] Yeah, I'm going to yell at her, which is exactly what happened.

[233] And to be clear, I didn't think you were nervous.

[234] I didn't detect nervousness.

[235] I knew this from Monica, obviously.

[236] I told your secret.

[237] Good.

[238] I'm not, I'm not nervous.

[239] Like, asked me a question I'm nervous to answer.

[240] It's more of, especially because I hold you guys and this podcast since I try your guard and all the experts are like, psychologists, pathologist, marine biologists.

[241] And then I'm coming on here as a comedy writer and producer, and I think, wow.

[242] But hold on a second, Molly.

[243] I got to push back on your story about yourself.

[244] Okay.

[245] There have been, since you and I were alive, I'm guessing, but probably seven late -night talk shows that have run for more than five years.

[246] Yes, that sounds about accurate or maybe even less.

[247] You are a head writer of one of those.

[248] You're in a group of like literally 20 people.

[249] If I interview a TV writer who's run a one -hour drama, they're one of several hundred.

[250] True.

[251] And I have done that.

[252] Noel Hawley was here the other a day.

[253] Love.

[254] He's doing something more that's dime a dozen than you're doing.

[255] Well, thank you.

[256] And how about this?

[257] Because we both love Letterman.

[258] Yes.

[259] And revere it.

[260] And I know as a kid you revered Carson.

[261] Imagine how excited you would be to talk to the head writer of Johnny Carson and ask, what was that ride like?

[262] What was happening behind the scenes?

[263] What were the personalities and the ego dynamics and all the, like you would be dying to hear all that, right?

[264] Completely.

[265] You're absolutely right.

[266] In fact, I think you know the Letterman writer, don't you?

[267] I kind of know all the writers on the late night shows and have a lot of respect for all of them.

[268] In your world, is there one that you're like, oh, that person was...

[269] Well, I have a lot of respect for Merrill Marco and what she did at Letterman.

[270] I think she's exceptional.

[271] But I have truly respect for any comedy writer who can succeed.

[272] I think comedy traditionally, and now that we're producing the Oscars in particular, I think comedy isn't taken as seriously as drama.

[273] And I think it's just as hard, if not harder to make someone laugh.

[274] It's way harder.

[275] There's no tricks.

[276] We can't add the perfect song or the perfect push -in to get the emotion we want?

[277] Completely.

[278] I have such a respect for comedy writers.

[279] And I'm very grateful for all the ones who came before me, especially the women.

[280] Seeing Tina Faye and Amy Poehler the other night on the Emmys, I was losing my mind because I feel like those women paved the way for a lot of women.

[281] I'm inspired by them as a man and have been from the get.

[282] And they're still so good.

[283] That was the thing.

[284] They're still the best.

[285] They really are.

[286] I didn't want them to go away.

[287] I know.

[288] Keep them up there.

[289] Don't you think the X Factor with them as well is it's like, A, they are are great performers.

[290] They are also incredible writers, both of them.

[291] But I think that what trumps all that is that at least seemingly, they have a total rejection of worrying about whether men are going to approve.

[292] They seem isolated in the way that Taylor Swift does.

[293] Yeah.

[294] They seem like they created their own orb of matriarchy in a way that just like screams power.

[295] It has from the get -go.

[296] And yet they remain very approachable and relatable, especially then as they became mothers using that in their comedy and then the movies they produced.

[297] I have such respect for them.

[298] Well, here's a question.

[299] So as all these people have cycled through the show, and again, to your point, you've had all these different people in your house and on your vacations.

[300] But beyond that, you've been there for what now, 15 years?

[301] How long have you been there?

[302] I started there midway through season one, 20 years ago as a assistant to the exact career producer.

[303] Okay, so 20 years, let's say 200 shows a year, two guests and night.

[304] That's 400 times 20.

[305] I don't know what that is.

[306] You've seen several thousand actors come through.

[307] Yes.

[308] Do you find that you're more intimidated around the women?

[309] No. Like, do you do well around Tina and Amy?

[310] I do.

[311] It's weird.

[312] I'm not that intimidated by that many people.

[313] Right.

[314] Just you.

[315] Just the one.

[316] So now I'm paranoid.

[317] It's going to wear off.

[318] I got to add something to the other.

[319] No, I'm not going to wear off.

[320] I'll always hold you in high regard.

[321] I'm going to work on my intimidation because I don't want to be intimidated by you.

[322] I think it works.

[323] Yeah, I think so.

[324] It's working.

[325] I think the job has helped me not be intimidated by celebrities.

[326] I just see them as people doing a job.

[327] I tend to be more intimidated by people who write, who do the work behind because I've so, I know how hard it is.

[328] I don't know how hard it is to be an actor.

[329] I've never been one.

[330] But when I look at what a writer can do and telling a story and make it work, I'm in awe.

[331] And every time I watch people getting awards in my heart and saying, please thank the writer, please thank the writer.

[332] Yes, yes.

[333] Because I just feel like there is no show.

[334] There is no movie that you're taking an award for.

[335] that great storytelling.

[336] Okay, this will sound super self -indulgent, but I do think maybe there's something at the bottom of this.

[337] Is it possible?

[338] Because I have had this.

[339] So when I've been in these same circles you've been in, generally I'm like, well, this person's career is much better than mine.

[340] This person's more famous than I am.

[341] This person has more money than me. I'm not looking in my head, I'm like, but I can fix cars.

[342] I'll go to like something I know I can do that helps bolster my confidence in that situation.

[343] So is it possible?

[344] And again, this is incredibly self -indulgent.

[345] But is it that generally when you're interacting with these people, you have like a moral core.

[346] Yes.

[347] I do.

[348] But you go, yeah, but I'm a real person.

[349] And I know it.

[350] And these people have a little bit floated off into the ether.

[351] Definitely.

[352] And then when you meet me, you're like, this dude's still kind of in the dirt.

[353] Yes.

[354] Could that maybe be what's happening?

[355] No, 100%.

[356] No. No, I think he might be right.

[357] Because it is.

[358] It's like you feel like a family member to me. When I watch the way you and Kristen raise your children, I admire you guys so much.

[359] Those kids have a lot, but don't know it.

[360] And they come to your house and I fed them multiple times and they just get up, do their dishes.

[361] My kids are looking at your kids like, oh, shit, we should be doing that.

[362] They're fucking up our whole system.

[363] Right.

[364] But there is a real humility in you and Kristen and your kids in the way you do things.

[365] And so you're right.

[366] Maybe that's confusing to me. Let's go to Missouri.

[367] Okay.

[368] 1978?

[369] Yes.

[370] Okay.

[371] Now, I've met your parents and I've met your sister.

[372] By the way, shout out to Kelly.

[373] She's the best.

[374] I am so lucky.

[375] I have the greatest sister ever.

[376] What a party.

[377] You guys could be like the characters in a coming of age thing.

[378] Yes.

[379] What are mom and dad like?

[380] What is home life like?

[381] Where are you rural city, suburb?

[382] Suburbs of St. Louis, mid to low income family, grew up going to Catholic schools, kindergarten through senior of high school were a uniform, super conservative Catholic upbringing.

[383] No boys in my high school, which I love and I credit to this day for the confidence I had to be in a mostly male -dominated writer's room.

[384] Interesting, because you hadn't developed any of the bad habits.

[385] I didn't care what boys thought about me. And I think I really cared about the girls at my school thinking I was nice and funny and talented, and I ran for student council and won those elections.

[386] and that's all I cared about was female approval.

[387] You and Monica, to me, have some very shared qualities.

[388] Ooh, that's flattering.

[389] Well, you both should be flattered.

[390] You're both dynamic.

[391] You're like a bit type A and pretty on it.

[392] Are you a Virgo?

[393] I'm a Pisces.

[394] She's a virgin.

[395] I was a virgin until 24.

[396] No. Oh, yeah.

[397] Oh, my goodness.

[398] That's the other part of my upbringing.

[399] Wow, that is a crossword.

[400] Oh, yeah.

[401] I had no idea.

[402] Oh, I was dry humping well through college.

[403] Denham on denim.

[404] Because of concern.

[405] Because you weren't supposed to.

[406] I thought it was bad.

[407] You were supposed to save it for marriage.

[408] I also thought alcohol was bad.

[409] I didn't drink until I was 20 years old.

[410] Wow.

[411] I would drive all my friends around high school.

[412] They would all be drunk in my mom's minivan, and I would drive them.

[413] I didn't judge what they were doing, but I was never going to participate in it.

[414] My dad was sober for 30 years.

[415] Well, he's no longer sober.

[416] But he was sober for about 30 years.

[417] Wait, is it working for him?

[418] Because I have a fantasy that, like, 70, I can start banging beers.

[419] It kind of is.

[420] And weirdly, Jimmy encourages it in our home.

[421] Oh, God.

[422] I had never seen my dad.

[423] The last time I saw my dad drink, I was in second grade.

[424] And then he came out to visit me and Jimmy, and he's like, I'd like to have a beer.

[425] I thought he was kidding.

[426] Right.

[427] And then Jimmy looked at me, like, what do we do?

[428] And I said, Dad, you're sober.

[429] He's like, no, I drink a beer every now and then now.

[430] And he did.

[431] And I never saw him get drunk.

[432] And Jimmy's like, I don't think he was ever an alcohol.

[433] Like, oh, you would know.

[434] I've just learned of this through my therapist, that there, like, are many people who have had long -term sobriety and then in their older life have.

[435] that's an anthem in AA.

[436] That's supposed to not exist.

[437] So I've just like kind of been...

[438] Like maybe you can try it at 75.

[439] Don't dip your toe in the aisle next week.

[440] He's like, I'm turning 50 soon, so I should try it again.

[441] No, I'm not the only case for myself to do it.

[442] I'm just saying that I was kind of given a singular view of how it works.

[443] It's been pointed out to me that some people do.

[444] Okay, well, it might be working for my dad.

[445] I don't know.

[446] I grew up.

[447] He was sober.

[448] He would read from the...

[449] A .A. Book at night.

[450] So he went to meetings?

[451] Yes, I went to Allen on as a kid.

[452] Oh, wow.

[453] Oh, yeah.

[454] So you remember when he was not sober?

[455] I remember witnessing him drunk when I was in first or second grade.

[456] And I remember my mom calling the police on him because he was trying to leave the house driving.

[457] And I remember watching the police come talk my dad into not driving.

[458] And that was very scarring.

[459] Shortly after that, he started going to meetings, then he was very, very into AA to the point where I found it a little annoying.

[460] I remember in college being a in love for the first time.

[461] And my dad meeting the parents.

[462] And I was so excited for him to be the parents.

[463] And he put out his hands like, Mike McNarney, he's sober for 20 years.

[464] I said, why?

[465] Why?

[466] I just remember like, stop it.

[467] Like, he just loved to talk about his sobriety.

[468] And I found it so annoying.

[469] Mother, why haven't you and I bonded over this?

[470] Because, you know, my day was sober too.

[471] Yes.

[472] I too had to go to Aalatine.

[473] Oh, yeah.

[474] I went to Alatine.

[475] And then I was like, this isn't for me. I'd rather be with other people.

[476] So then I would go to A, I mean he's had never drank.

[477] But I wonder, so some of it was this Catholic thing, maybe the virginity, was some of it driven by a fear that you, too, would be an addict?

[478] Yeah, I think I thought it could be in my genetics.

[479] If he could do it, I could do it.

[480] I was very afraid of it.

[481] I remember my dad saying, an alcoholic is when you get drunk, you make mistakes, and then you want to do it again.

[482] And you change the way you behave so dramatically that you're not yourself anymore.

[483] And I was very afraid of doing that.

[484] My very first drink was in college.

[485] It was a Raspberry Stolian 7 that my brother bought me. We both went to University of Kansas.

[486] And I drank it, and then a couple hours later, I was feeling a little warm.

[487] And then it was at that moment, I realized it was my dad's birthday.

[488] It was March 9th.

[489] And I was like, wait, I just got drunk for the first time on dad's birthday.

[490] And then I didn't drink again for like three months.

[491] You felt shame?

[492] Yeah, I'm heading down that thing.

[493] So you were really susceptible to feeling bad and beating yourself up?

[494] Very.

[495] Where do you think that comes from?

[496] Is it genetic?

[497] I would say it's my upbringing.

[498] My dad scared me so much alcohol and sex.

[499] Oh, God, my parents both would try to talk to me about sex all the time.

[500] They went to drive me to college.

[501] Now, keep in mind, I'm still a virgin going to college, driving from St. Louis University of Kansas.

[502] My dad is driving.

[503] My mom is behind in the U -Haul.

[504] My dad says to me, now you know, Molly, I'd like to talk to you about boys and sex in college.

[505] And I'm rolling my eyes.

[506] And he said, you know, boys are going to try to get sex from you and save it for someone you love and save it for marriage if you can.

[507] I was like, of course.

[508] We pull over now, a bathroom break, switch drivers, my mom's driver with me. And she says, you know, Molly, you're going to college.

[509] I want to talk to you about sex.

[510] You got to be kidding me. I've heard this twice.

[511] I already heard this song.

[512] Yeah, I already heard it.

[513] So I think it came from guilt.

[514] I don't know if it's Catholic guilt or just the way my parents raised me that stay away from these things, they can be dangerous.

[515] And so I did very successfully stay away from that.

[516] And was there baseline fear level just a bit high about life in general?

[517] No, not worriers at all.

[518] I had a broken arm for six days as a kid.

[519] My parents never took me to the hospital.

[520] Well, that could be laziness coupled with.

[521] Yeah, probably also as laziness or finances.

[522] But they were not worriers by nature, never locked our doors.

[523] They weren't scared of other things.

[524] It was those two.

[525] I was dry humping and I had a serious boyfriend.

[526] I finally had sex for the first time.

[527] I graduated college, moved to Chicago for a couple years, then moved to L .A. and had sex for the first time as a 24 -year -old woman.

[528] And with a boyfriend?

[529] Oh, of course.

[530] Okay.

[531] Well, sometimes it goes the opposite way.

[532] You're waiting, waiting.

[533] You're with this person.

[534] You drive them insane.

[535] You break up.

[536] And then you're fucking a rando.

[537] This was a boyfriend.

[538] It was to a Nora Jones CD.

[539] Oh, Sassy.

[540] What song?

[541] We love her.

[542] We were listening to the whole album.

[543] Sunrise.

[544] By the way, it wasn't even the first North Jones album.

[545] It was the second Norwich's album.

[546] That's how long.

[547] I didn't come.

[548] I used to come in my dad now.

[549] No. Don't do that to her.

[550] Oh, my God.

[551] Wait, when you had sex with him, did you feel like, well, I guess I have to marry him?

[552] I thought for sure I was going to marry him.

[553] So let's have sex now.

[554] And you did.

[555] That was Jimmy.

[556] Yeah.

[557] No, I did not.

[558] I did not marry him.

[559] I'm very glad I did not.

[560] Dated a few other people.

[561] And then had a lot of fun dating.

[562] And then I was just like, this is great.

[563] Where have I been?

[564] This is ridiculous.

[565] I've been hiding from all this.

[566] Enjoyed my life for many years dating, casual sex.

[567] Sure.

[568] And isn't that funny that I?

[569] even said that.

[570] I was like, oh, casual.

[571] I know you're scared to say it.

[572] I really was.

[573] I noticed me looking like, whoops.

[574] That's so sad.

[575] It's even the PG version of fucking, like, casuals.

[576] Couldn't say it.

[577] Couldn't say one night stand.

[578] Oh, God, no, but I did have a view of those.

[579] And, yeah, then had a great, healthy, fun dating life.

[580] And then, I'm sorry, I don't want to take over your interview.

[581] I was just going on.

[582] What are you talking about?

[583] Okay.

[584] This is exactly how hard.

[585] So then I'm, I dated a lot of different people.

[586] I hit the improv community in L .A. Not a lot of guys there.

[587] They moved fast and loose in that circle.

[588] Wait, what was your circle, UCB?

[589] I did Second City in Chicago.

[590] I graduated from there, then came out here, did Improv Olympic for several years.

[591] I -O, as they said.

[592] Oh, yes, I -O -S.

[593] Yep.

[594] And one time was dating a guy who I broke up with, and I swear to God, he did scene work when I broke up with him.

[595] So I break up with him.

[596] We'd be dating for a little while.

[597] I said, hey, I don't really see this working.

[598] I'm really sorry.

[599] And then he put up his hands, like, a window.

[600] Like, he couldn't hear me. What?

[601] Yeah.

[602] And then said, like, knock, knock.

[603] And, like, rolled the window down.

[604] What'd you say?

[605] And then I started to break up with him again, and he rolled the window up.

[606] No, no, no. I swear to God.

[607] I don't know if he's a genius or psychotic.

[608] No, maybe a little about.

[609] That's the cringiest thing I'd ever hurt.

[610] Breaking up with an improviser, and he's doing scene work.

[611] Space work.

[612] Ew.

[613] Yeah, that was rough.

[614] He took out earplugs and put him in.

[615] And he, like, thought maybe that would make him hot again.

[616] Yeah, I think so.

[617] I think he was hoping that would work.

[618] I'd pay you a fortune to see a closed -circuit recording of that.

[619] Me, too.

[620] Oh, boy.

[621] Okay, but before we are at I -O and before we're at Second City, we're back in Missouri.

[622] How do you say Missouri?

[623] Missouri.

[624] I hate Missouri.

[625] But people do say Missouri, right?

[626] Yeah, in some parts.

[627] Monica hates it, too, because sometimes I do it.

[628] Because it sounds like.

[629] Placading?

[630] I just hate it.

[631] You just hate it, too.

[632] Yeah.

[633] Because it's just not right.

[634] No, it's not right.

[635] And you know it's not right.

[636] It's one thing if you just don't know and you're messing up, but when you know, not you.

[637] It's not you, the general you.

[638] You included.

[639] Okay.

[640] Ambiguous you.

[641] The informal you.

[642] Do you say Appalachia or Appalachia?

[643] Appalachia.

[644] But see, don't you think, when they tell you how they want you to say it, like we said Oregon growing up in Michigan, but then I learned it's Oregon.

[645] Everyone in Michigan says Oregon, the Oregon Trail.

[646] How do you say the state Las Vegas is in?

[647] Oh, Nevada.

[648] Is that correct or incorrect?

[649] Yeah, that's correct.

[650] According to Jimmy.

[651] I've said Nevada and Jimmy, yeah.

[652] And now every time I said, I think of the word dad.

[653] And I'm like, Nevada.

[654] because he has corrected me so many times.

[655] It's hugely important.

[656] Very.

[657] So one question of mine was answered, which is, my hunch was you were popular?

[658] Because you're a social butterfly.

[659] You're so very assertive.

[660] I was popular.

[661] I was nice.

[662] I remember the boys in grade school saying I was the nicest girl in the class.

[663] And I took that as an insult a little bit.

[664] Even then.

[665] I was like, oh, that's just you don't want to touch me. You know what I mean?

[666] Like, oh, you're the nicest girl in the class.

[667] It's not the girl you're trying to get with.

[668] Not that I wanted to because I was terrified, but I wanted to be seen as anything but nice.

[669] And then in high school, I was funny.

[670] And then in college, I feel like boys started actually looking at me in a sexual way.

[671] Did you have any class clown in you?

[672] Or were you pretty well behaved in class?

[673] Rule follower.

[674] You know, I liked an impression of the gym coach in front of the school.

[675] I had my little funny moments, but I was a very much rule follower, good student.

[676] And you went to Kansas State, whether anybody call it Kansas City?

[677] KU.

[678] Lawrence, Kansas is totally different.

[679] That's her Eric Stone Street went, K -State.

[680] Oh, really?

[681] Fun fact.

[682] Kansas University, KU.

[683] He doesn't understand when you mess up colleges it can hurt.

[684] I know.

[685] Yes, of course.

[686] Sometimes it can really hurt.

[687] The reason I was confused, and I blame Kansas the city.

[688] Kansas City's in Missouri, and it's in Kansas.

[689] It's so confusing.

[690] So I just went, well, she's from Missouri.

[691] She went to Kansas.

[692] That has to be fucking, I don't know.

[693] I would University of Kansas and Lawrence four hours outside of St. Louis, journalism major because they had one of the best journalism programs in the country.

[694] Yeah, so you were going to be Diane Sawyer.

[695] All I wanted to be was Diane Sawyer.

[696] What a bombshell.

[697] Oh, what a bombshell.

[698] When I was a kid, I wanted to be Diane Sawyer.

[699] I used to go around my neighborhood with a camcorder and pretend.

[700] I'd be like, I'm Diane Soaring.

[701] I give like reports on the neighborhood.

[702] And now cut to 30 years later or something.

[703] I'm dating Jimmy at the time.

[704] We're at his house.

[705] And he says, Diane Surrey's coming up for dinner.

[706] And I couldn't believe it.

[707] I answered the door.

[708] I said, hi, can I get you something in a drink?

[709] And on there for it, she was, do you have a bathtub full of vodka?

[710] Oh, my God.

[711] She was a daughter of an alcoholic.

[712] It's all I wanted.

[713] So, but then I really wanted to be a journalism major.

[714] That's all I wanted to do.

[715] To me, the dream job would be working for, like, KSDK, I think it was, in St. Louis, NBC, local news.

[716] That's all I could ever ask for.

[717] By the way, you would have worked for Kristen's father.

[718] Oh, my gosh.

[719] Do you know this?

[720] He was a news director in St. Louis and maybe even that channel.

[721] Oh, I should have done it all differently.

[722] I do an internship in St. Louis at this local news channel.

[723] I shadow this woman all day.

[724] I cannot for the life when you remember her name.

[725] I could look it up.

[726] She's a blonde woman.

[727] I go out on a couple shoots with her.

[728] I'm in the van all day.

[729] I'm like, wow, this is a dream.

[730] This is all I want.

[731] This is going to be my future.

[732] Day ends.

[733] I follow her back to her dressing room.

[734] I said, thank you so much for letting me shadow you.

[735] This was the best day in my life.

[736] I have so much respect for everything you do.

[737] And she was, you don't want this job.

[738] And I thought she was kidding.

[739] And she said, no, this is the worst job ever.

[740] She said, you want to get all dressed up and read a teleprompter all day?

[741] That's what you want for your life?

[742] I'm like, yes, maybe.

[743] I don't know.

[744] I thought I did.

[745] And then I changed my career path that next semester.

[746] I said, forget it.

[747] I'm going to do advertising and I'm going to write creative.

[748] And then my dream job was to work for like Lou Burnett and write a Coke commercial.

[749] But you know what's so interesting is at first glance, I'm like, what a terrible thing for that woman to do.

[750] And then I go, well, I'm really glad she did that.

[751] These things that you think would be implicitly right or wrong are not.

[752] you just end up somewhere and you're either delighted you did or you didn't.

[753] But weirdly, I'm grateful that you were so accepting of her advice.

[754] I am grateful I was.

[755] I'm very impressionable.

[756] I will get a bad haircut anytime because if I go in and someone goes, you should have bangs.

[757] I'm like, well, they know more than I do.

[758] And so I'll have bangs now.

[759] I trust if people are an expert in their industry, then they definitely know more.

[760] This woman had been doing this.

[761] She looked at me and said, don't do it.

[762] Similarly, on the opposite way, when I was in third grade, a teacher said to me, you're a really good writer, you're going to be a writer.

[763] And I believed it.

[764] What was that teacher's name?

[765] Let's shout them out.

[766] That was Mrs. Cooper.

[767] God bless her, best teacher ever.

[768] And she went to my parents and said, your daughter's a good writer and she's going to be a good writer.

[769] And that's all it took was someone telling me that.

[770] Mine was Larry LaClair, seventh grade.

[771] Oh, I love Larry.

[772] What did he tell you?

[773] You're an incredible writer.

[774] I'm going to put this thing you wrote in our annual, they put out a magazine, you know, like a shitty Monica's seen it.

[775] It's paper was Xeroxed.

[776] It was like the Muir or whatever the fuck it was called.

[777] And he put one of my stories in it.

[778] And I think from that moment on, I was like, oh, I can build an identity around this.

[779] A writer.

[780] But didn't he also put you in the math?

[781] That was Mr. Wood.

[782] The weight of people's words with children is so important.

[783] But here's the thing.

[784] Do you find with your kids?

[785] So that being my past and my parents always believed to me. My dad told me on a regular basis, you could be President of the United States.

[786] And I believed it.

[787] He still thinks I'm going to be the President of the United States still today.

[788] He's holding out.

[789] You might.

[790] Well, give it the competition.

[791] I do too.

[792] Yeah, right.

[793] Hey, guys.

[794] Anything is possible.

[795] But I do think that just telling kids things.

[796] helps them believe it.

[797] It becomes a reality.

[798] But do you ever worry about doing it too much?

[799] Because I find I'm constantly complimenting my kids.

[800] Like, oh, you're so good at that.

[801] You're so good at that.

[802] And I'm like, wait, am I telling them they're good at everything?

[803] And now are they going to be annoying and obnoxious?

[804] I have a policy.

[805] And it's already evident in the story you and I both told.

[806] You already wrote something that your third grade teacher read.

[807] I had written something Larry Leclair read.

[808] I think a lot of people tell their kids you're great at shit they haven't even demonstrated they're good at.

[809] So I think it's like you have to provide them with an opportunity to demonstrate that they're great at something.

[810] And then when they are, I think you lay it on thick.

[811] Good.

[812] I think it also depends.

[813] A compliment from a non -parent for me meant so much more.

[814] Any compliment from a parent I just didn't even hear.

[815] Isn't that sad, though?

[816] As a parent, I'm like, I know her better than anyone.

[817] My compliment should mean something.

[818] It feels good to me because I'm not a parent and I can just hand out compliments.

[819] Yeah, but I'm like dealing with all the temper tantrums and the bullshit.

[820] I feel like I've earned that.

[821] But yeah, I think it's greatly reduced unless I think I'm doing my research last night for Rob Reiner and his father did the thing he wanted to do.

[822] So that compliment for him was very, very powerful.

[823] And wanting that approval was very, very powerful.

[824] So I also think it's like if you yourself do something that they actually have identified as something impressive, then I think it's relevant.

[825] I agree with that.

[826] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[827] So you switch, you decide you're going to be in marketing, which funny enough, you know, we just interviewed Lil Dickie.

[828] I love a little Dickie.

[829] Dave Bird.

[830] That is one of the best shows ever.

[831] I'm so excited for Monica.

[832] She hasn't watched it.

[833] Oh, I'm so jealous you get to watch all that.

[834] It's fantastic.

[835] I'd give anything to erase my memory and do it all over again.

[836] That and Breaking Bad.

[837] Take me back.

[838] Take me back.

[839] But he was working similar to you as well.

[840] He's like, well, marketing's creative and safe.

[841] Completely.

[842] Because when you're a kid in St. Louis, you don't know.

[843] that's a possibility.

[844] I remember when I was, I'd say about my daughter's age, like eight, nine years old, and I'd pretend to do commercials.

[845] Like, my mom would make me cereal, and then I would pour the cereal in the bowl, and I'd hold it up and pretend, and I'd do little commercials.

[846] And then I remember her saying to me, do you want to be an actor?

[847] And I didn't even think that was a possibility.

[848] And I remember feeling stupid saying, maybe, you know, like, yeah, is that a dumb thing to say?

[849] And I said, yeah, I think so.

[850] And then this is a really messed up thing she did.

[851] And I love my mom.

[852] We have a great relationship.

[853] She said, now you know if you were to be a good actor.

[854] You'd have to pretend that someone else is your mother.

[855] Oh, boy.

[856] Yeah.

[857] And I said, well, yeah, I know.

[858] I know how acting works.

[859] And she said, would you be comfortable saying to another woman, I love you, mom?

[860] This gets so personal for her.

[861] And then I said, um, and I remember thinking, yes, I could easily do that.

[862] But I said, no, of course not.

[863] I couldn't do that.

[864] And then that's kind of where the acting dream dial.

[865] Oh, my God.

[866] You've been diverted in so many directions in your life.

[867] You could have been so many things.

[868] Yeah, a lot of people talking me out of stuff.

[869] Talk to me out of my dreams.

[870] But I agree with you in a suburb of Detroit and Michigan, weirdly, I thought it was more probable I could be the president than an actor.

[871] Absolutely.

[872] There's a path you take.

[873] It's kind of laid out.

[874] And I think kids need to see and know local stories.

[875] I'm really grateful John Hammas from St. Louis because people now know, oh, maybe it's possible for me. And Ellie Kemper's from St. Louis.

[876] Nellie's from St. Louis.

[877] Molly's from St. Louis.

[878] But I think it's important that we celebrate the local stories so kids see themselves.

[879] I remember I love Johnny Carson so much and I watched it every night.

[880] It never even occurred to me. People were writing that.

[881] I thought like, oh, that's just a guy.

[882] And you say to your mother too still refuses to accept that Jimmy's not just coming up with everything?

[883] Oh, yes.

[884] It's like, oh, he was so great.

[885] That thing he said and that thing he did.

[886] Like, yeah, I know I wrote it.

[887] Who says that?

[888] Her mom still is under the elite.

[889] as she was watching Carson, like, oh, he's just off the domingness.

[890] Yeah.

[891] I also love when people, like, the thing about writing for a late -night show is that everyone thinks they've got an anecdote for you that makes sense.

[892] Like, oh, you know, they'll tell you a crazy story about their dishwasher breaking.

[893] Like, you got to put that on the show.

[894] No, I don't.

[895] No, I don't.

[896] Yeah, I've heard a lot of movie ideas over the years.

[897] Oh, I bet.

[898] So you.

[899] Sometimes it's like, have you thought about having Julia Roberts on?

[900] Oh, no. Oh, no. Never thought of it.

[901] Well, that's a good idea.

[902] Definitely haven't been.

[903] We had been.

[904] saying no to her, but now I think we might say yes.

[905] We're going to bump Molly.

[906] We're going to bring in Julia.

[907] I sometimes respond to the people that are like, please get so on and so on.

[908] I'm like, we've invited them 100.

[909] Like, can you get them on for us?

[910] You think we're not inviting this person on?

[911] Of course we are.

[912] That's all you're doing.

[913] Literally all we're doing.

[914] So you actually find employment, though, in the advertising business.

[915] I worked in ad sales in Chicago.

[916] I love Chicago, move there after college.

[917] It was in ad sales, which still wasn't in the creative.

[918] part, right?

[919] But man, it was easy and lucrative, and I got to work like three hours a day and an expense account.

[920] Oh, baby.

[921] So exciting.

[922] To be young and have an expense account.

[923] What could be hotter than that?

[924] The best.

[925] And I worked for a music label or for Interscope Records.

[926] And so I got to go to all these concerts and just take clients to concerts.

[927] AKA friends.

[928] Yeah, exactly.

[929] Exactly.

[930] One client six friends.

[931] But it wasn't creative enough for me and I wasn't happy with it.

[932] Were you doing Second City then while you had that job?

[933] I discovered Second City while I had that job.

[934] Even in Chicago, I thought, okay, I like performing, I like writing, I like doing all this, but I got to get into Leo Burnett and write Coke commercials.

[935] That's the only way I thought that could translate.

[936] And then Interscope moved me to Los Angeles to do sales out here.

[937] And while doing that, again, great job making great money.

[938] A friend of a friend said, there's a job opening at Jimmy Kim Alive to be an assistant to the executive producer.

[939] I had never seen Jimmy Kim alive.

[940] I had no idea what an assistant.

[941] tune as I could roost or did.

[942] But I knew it was in the industry and could maybe get me closer to comedy.

[943] In the meantime, I'm doing improv classes out in L .A. and making great friends who are all really funny people.

[944] And I interviewed Jimmy Kimmel Live.

[945] This was pre -DVR.

[946] I tried to stay up to watch the show the night before, and I fell asleep.

[947] I remember like, I got to watch a show.

[948] I got to know what I'm doing.

[949] And I woke up to the credits.

[950] I was like, oh, no. Went in for the job interview.

[951] Got it.

[952] Naomi Scott, Adam Scott's wife.

[953] She interviewed me. Yeah, she was the existing executive producer's assistant.

[954] Oh, my God.

[955] Finding a replacement for herself.

[956] Yeah, so I got the job as the assistant to the executive producer, and I loved it.

[957] This was just a huge quote step down.

[958] Yeah, I was making about a third of the money I was making.

[959] I was working about five times the hours.

[960] This is when Jimmy Kimmel Live was actually live.

[961] So we would shoot the show from 9 to 10 p .m. Monday through Friday.

[962] It was the longest work day ever.

[963] I lived in Hermosa Beach.

[964] I would drive to Hollywood.

[965] I had an hour commute.

[966] I had to be at my desk at 9 a .m. And I would leave at 11 p .m. It was terrible, but I loved it.

[967] I was so happy to be a part of this live show.

[968] I loved watching people like come up with ideas and they were on the air that night.

[969] It was incredible.

[970] Yeah, you know, it's funny.

[971] I have a great friend, Andrew Panay.

[972] He's a producer.

[973] He's done a bunch of movies.

[974] We've done a bunch together.

[975] He went into marketing and he's like, I find this so much more rewarding because I'm pitching an idea on a Monday, three weeks later we're shooting it, I see it on television, and there's something so rewarding about the instant gratification of it.

[976] It's really great.

[977] Back to Second City, though, did you have any folks in the program at that time that ended up being?

[978] Yes, I remember a young Bill Hater.

[979] No way.

[980] I remember watching Bill Hater and thinking, that guy is incredible.

[981] Jack McBrayer.

[982] Sweet Jack McBrayer.

[983] I watched some of these guys at I -O -West and thought, like, they have something special, I hope.

[984] And I remember thinking, I bet I could try to get them on Jimmy Kim alive.

[985] I used to take a lot of improvisers and put them in bits.

[986] There's so many great comedy actors who've come out of improv, as you know.

[987] Don't you love, because I have that with the groundlings.

[988] I was in the program with so many people for years, and then I watched them pop up at different times.

[989] And there's something that feels so special about being connected to it in the most beautiful and sincere way, which is when you've seen the innocent beginning and it pays off.

[990] You've been in bad scenes with these people.

[991] Yes, yes.

[992] Yes.

[993] Yes.

[994] and then you watch them grow.

[995] It's fantastic.

[996] I find that community very encouraging, the improv community.

[997] It is, yeah.

[998] It's such a shared experience.

[999] Like, you all live or you all die together.

[1000] Okay, great.

[1001] This is one of my questions about the mechanics and how the sausage of the show is made.

[1002] I wonder with you in the writer's room and how you guys all work.

[1003] How are you policing yourself or evaluating if it's esoteric and inside and for each other or if it's for America?

[1004] That's a great question.

[1005] And I will say it's difficult if we have a writer or someone on the staff in a bit.

[1006] So, like, a lot of times we'll cast people at the show and stuff, and it gets a huge laugh for rehearsal.

[1007] And we have to say, is that just because we all know, Becky?

[1008] Yeah.

[1009] Why is that because that's actually funny?

[1010] So I find it's probably better to cast people and things that are not within the walls because I think we look at it a little more objectively.

[1011] But in terms of the way the process works, do you want to hear, like, how it goes?

[1012] Okay.

[1013] So around 5 o 'clock in the morning, one guy wakes up a writer assistant.

[1014] and he calms the internet for what the stories of the day are.

[1015] Those are in our inbox.

[1016] They go to a head writer and we then edit them.

[1017] So by 7 a .m. every day, all of our 19 writers have an email that says, here are the top stories of the day that we're going to focus our monologue on.

[1018] You're not limited to those.

[1019] Please don't be.

[1020] Like we prefer with someone who goes, I've got this interesting observation about something that's not in the daily news.

[1021] But primarily our monologue is based on what has happened today, what people are talking about at home.

[1022] We have an 8 .50 a .m. deadline.

[1023] So you read all these headlines and stories.

[1024] And then you write a couple pages of jokes and bit ideas.

[1025] So bit ideas are the things that are like fake commercials or a man on the street bit, a pre -taped with a celebrity.

[1026] Jimmy gets about 50 pages by 9 .30 a .m. How many staff writers are doing this?

[1027] 19.

[1028] The 5 a .m. person.

[1029] Shout out to Nick.

[1030] Yeah.

[1031] What up, Nick?

[1032] Big props.

[1033] How many stories does he give before it gets whittled down?

[1034] He'll give about 11 to 12 stories.

[1035] We narrow it down to about 6 to 8 stories, I would say.

[1036] Okay, great.

[1037] So the 19 writers get 6 to 8 stories.

[1038] Then they write two pages on that.

[1039] And now Jimmy gets a thick 50 -page document.

[1040] He whittles it down to about 5 pages.

[1041] That's sent to us by 10 a .m. So now we have a pretty clear understanding of what our monologues going to be.

[1042] Then we all start writing more jokes.

[1043] So we'll say, like, here are the topics.

[1044] Here are the ones we still need better jokes on.

[1045] This bit could use some work.

[1046] This is what I love about late night television.

[1047] You can be in your bed and your pajamas writing a bit and then you get an email and by 10 a .m. You've got a director, a producer, a graphics guy.

[1048] You're making wardrobe choices.

[1049] You're piecing this thing together.

[1050] Oh, the pace is so awesome.

[1051] You're writing it.

[1052] You're rewriting it.

[1053] You're having the headwriters punch up on it.

[1054] Then Jimmy always does a punch up.

[1055] And then you shoot it, you edit it.

[1056] You are oftentimes racing it to air our shows at 4 .30.

[1057] By the time you've been assigned to you're going to do this bit, it's 10 a .m. and hopefully it gets approved and it's ready for air by 4 p .m. So it's been filmed, edited, everything, scored.

[1058] It is a rush.

[1059] It's incredible.

[1060] It's insane.

[1061] It's interesting though because the victory of getting that is so great.

[1062] But if it tanks, ooh, it hurts.

[1063] Because you worked so fucking hard.

[1064] You work so hard.

[1065] You set your whole day.

[1066] You haven't eaten.

[1067] You're like, did I even drink water today?

[1068] But the other side of it is that those failures are very short -lived because time to go tomorrow.

[1069] Got to do it again.

[1070] And I will say it's change.

[1071] significantly late night, at least for us in the last few years, because I think of the 24 -hour news cycle, things are moving so quickly.

[1072] And particularly when Trump was president, he would say something outlandish at 3 p .m. Oftentimes, we scrapped our monologue and rewrote it entirely.

[1073] A couple instances were like January 6th.

[1074] I remember watching that go down, we had already written that 9 a .m. deadline had already happened, right?

[1075] So all the January 6th is unfolding later in the day, we're piecing this monologue together and we just said, hold on, just stop, because this whole thing is about to change.

[1076] And then we're rewriting the whole thing and getting it to air several hours later.

[1077] Same with Charlottesville when he said the very fine people on both sides.

[1078] That happened, I think, around two or three in the afternoon.

[1079] We just ripped up the monologue and started over.

[1080] So there's a lot of other people are determining how you work that day, things that they say, things they do.

[1081] Then you have days that are too dark and too depressing.

[1082] There's been a school shooting, and that's all anyone's talking about in the news.

[1083] Like, what are we supposed to be talking about for 15 minutes tonight?

[1084] We wrestle with this a little bit.

[1085] Is it insane to not acknowledge something versus is it our job to acknowledge that thing?

[1086] I think it's very hard.

[1087] And I find that a lot of times I think, how are we not talking about this thing right now?

[1088] But if you talk about everything, nothing matters anymore.

[1089] I think you have to find the things that are really meaningful for you, particularly for Jimmy and I, It was after our son was born, we can get into that next.

[1090] I know, I'm sorry, I'm thinking like a producer.

[1091] I'm like, how's this going to edit?

[1092] When our son was born with the heart condition, that became very important to us, health care for children and health care for everyone.

[1093] And that happened to be going on while affordable care act was on the chopping block.

[1094] We used our voice there.

[1095] We've used it for universal gun laws.

[1096] We've used it a little for women's reproductive rights.

[1097] But if you take on every cause, it just dilutes it.

[1098] A thousand percent.

[1099] You really have to pick your back.

[1100] I'd imagine, two, you also have to remind yourself what you do.

[1101] I fall back on, I credit Stern in many ways to being brave and not talking about Trump and getting a lot of heat for not doing so.

[1102] And having the position of like, you can hear about Trump anywhere.

[1103] You deserve a break from Trump.

[1104] That's what this show is.

[1105] I have that opinion a lot about this show, which is I'm trying to talk about trauma and your childhood.

[1106] That's my mission.

[1107] Ezra Klein's mission is to tell you about Israel.

[1108] I think that's one of the reasons I'm drawn to your podcast is because it is an escape from that.

[1109] We need a fucking break.

[1110] Absolutely.

[1111] So, yeah, you guys are really like walking this precarious tightrope of you do do topical stuff.

[1112] Right.

[1113] The goal of late night, the monologue is for a host to feel like it's like you're talking to a friend about the day and what happened today.

[1114] When Trump is dominating the news cycle, that's all it's being ingested all day.

[1115] And then our job is to talk about the stuff that's being talked about.

[1116] but it is just like a never -ending cycle.

[1117] The other element for us is, Jimmy always says, I don't want to normalize the behaviors of things going on right now, both sides.

[1118] So it's like if people are leaning towards a dictatorship or leaning towards everyone needs to be canceled or whatever, like we can't normalize these behaviors.

[1119] And so if we are not talking about these things, then they just become part of our life.

[1120] It's just all seeping in slowly.

[1121] I appreciate that because it's actually quite misleading.

[1122] The tail has been wagging the dog in that those two viewpoints you just illustrated are really 5 % marginal viewpoints that somehow drive the entire narrative of all the mainstream.

[1123] And so, yeah, you do have some, I think, obligation to not be reporting on what the 4 % of the country actually thinks about.

[1124] It's hard to know, though.

[1125] It's hard to delineate.

[1126] It is really hard.

[1127] And especially when you turn the TV and that's all that's on the TV.

[1128] It's so interesting how dramatically our monologues have changed.

[1129] I remember for two or three years, there was like American Idol was our number one news story every night.

[1130] That's what we talked about.

[1131] We never talked about politics.

[1132] Like, we poked fun at George Bush a little bit.

[1133] We made fun of Obama's mom jeans.

[1134] Like, that was it.

[1135] Everything shifted in the last five, six years.

[1136] I know.

[1137] And there's this, like, call to constantly get into it.

[1138] But I also think you actually have to fight back from it.

[1139] You have to keep it proportional.

[1140] It's hard.

[1141] It's funny because, Jimmy, we're always at this balance.

[1142] Like, we have to talk about this.

[1143] And also it's like, guys, is there anything else to talk about?

[1144] It's like we say both of those things every week.

[1145] It's confusing.

[1146] I forget what TV show I was watching, but it's an English show.

[1147] And the person said, this season of America is boring.

[1148] They were talking about my first two years of Biden being around.

[1149] I was like, yeah, I wish I could be enjoying it from the outside.

[1150] Right.

[1151] Because, yeah, it's like it's turned into a reality show.

[1152] And this year's boring or whatever.

[1153] The season's boring.

[1154] That's funny.

[1155] So I think people would be similarly misled as I was.

[1156] And of course, egocentrically, I thought the guests were a really big deal.

[1157] But I think I've talked to Jimmy enough times where he said, like, the guests really are the second.

[1158] The show's the monologue.

[1159] Could you, like, explain that to us?

[1160] Well, yeah, the monologue is the highest rated portion of the show.

[1161] That surprised me. I'm embarrassed to say that.

[1162] Yeah, that's all right.

[1163] It also could be the fact that it's the first part of the show and people are starting to fall asleep.

[1164] But people do also the online numbers is the monologue.

[1165] It's incredible.

[1166] Now our monologues get millions of views the next day.

[1167] People really want to hear his perspective on things, which is great.

[1168] The guests are fantastic.

[1169] They are important.

[1170] The thing we always try to do is make their interviews a little more interesting.

[1171] where and if we can.

[1172] You guys know some guests are great, some you need a little help with.

[1173] I've found that the guests that are open to doing stuff are always more interesting if they need it.

[1174] A lot of times, Jamie goes, like, Dax is a guy you don't need to pitch a bit for.

[1175] Jason Bateman, you don't need a pitch a bit for.

[1176] They don't need our help.

[1177] They can tell a story better than anybody, but there are a lot of guests that do need it.

[1178] And also, viewers want it.

[1179] They want to see them doing something different besides Q &A.

[1180] I think that's what Phelan's been really, really smart about.

[1181] He somehow gets them all to do the most insane things.

[1182] Yes, for sure.

[1183] Our big viral video, when was it 15 years ago, the fucking Matt Damon video, really changed the way.

[1184] Did you get excited when I said Matt Damon?

[1185] Just a little.

[1186] And fuck.

[1187] A lot of words I liked in one sentence.

[1188] But when that video went viral, which I hate people say that now, because by the way, every publicist now will say like, my so -and -so guest on, we like a fun viral video.

[1189] It's like, that's not, you can't just make a viral video.

[1190] My client wants to win the lottery on Wednesday.

[1191] But that really, I think, got us in a space for doing more interesting things with guests.

[1192] And people trust us to now make these funny videos.

[1193] Well, Jimmy hated this when I insisted on him acknowledging this, is that very much like Dave had invented some staples in late night, you know, crazy pet tricks and these letters in the top 10.

[1194] You guys did that too.

[1195] The notion of the viral video emanating from a late night show didn't exist yet.

[1196] Yeah, I guess you're right.

[1197] And it's been regularly copied.

[1198] So it's like you guys invented a thing that will probably stay with this format forever, or as long as it lasts.

[1199] So how do we get from assistant?

[1200] Oh, okay.

[1201] Can I ask one more question about how the sausage is made first?

[1202] Absolutely.

[1203] It's just the button I want to put on the trying to police yourself and know what is going to be inside baseball and not.

[1204] My other curiosity is like, how do you even evaluate it?

[1205] Because I have been to that show now.

[1206] I have to imagine I've been on 20 times.

[1207] I think you have.

[1208] The audience is very.

[1209] It's not happening in a vacuum.

[1210] Someone was a guest on January 6th.

[1211] Those real -life humans were watching their capital gets stormed and overtaken, and then now they're sitting down and hearing John Ham's story.

[1212] To say that the audiences are objective or that they are neutral is not true.

[1213] They vary greatly.

[1214] Is it a Friday you're there?

[1215] Is it Monday?

[1216] Is it the day before tax day?

[1217] The live audience is highly subjective and variable.

[1218] And then you can't really watch TV and tell all that well.

[1219] So I'm even curious how, you guys know when they're great or they're not.

[1220] That's a really good question.

[1221] Because first I'd say, oh, you can feel it in the room.

[1222] But there are oftentimes, you get a bad audience.

[1223] Exactly.

[1224] I've left there thinking, I shit the bed this time.

[1225] And then I'll watch it with Kristen on the DVR.

[1226] And she's like, wow, that was one of your best.

[1227] Yeah, because sometimes you have an audience that is there to see you.

[1228] So we'll have 30 Dachshepard fans in the audience.

[1229] And literally, we're just following you.

[1230] Then there are other nights that it's a bunch of people on vacation on Hollywood Boulevard, and we pull them out of the Wetzels pretzels.

[1231] Right.

[1232] Half of them are German.

[1233] Yeah, exactly.

[1234] The studio audience is not as telling, I think, sometimes.

[1235] And oftentimes, especially when you have international audiences, might not understand a local joke if that is brutal.

[1236] I hate to say the Internet kind of is the judge, but I do think when things do well online.

[1237] Because you can track the views.

[1238] That seems like a very good barometer.

[1239] Right.

[1240] And, you know, there are bits we love.

[1241] I'm like, no one's watching this online.

[1242] You separate them out.

[1243] It's like, no one's watching that one.

[1244] And then you're surprised sometimes is the one people are drawn to.

[1245] And so you try to repeat those more.

[1246] It's a science.

[1247] How are you even here today?

[1248] I'm not.

[1249] I'm at the doctor.

[1250] I feel bad we took it.

[1251] Well, I'm going back and forth right now between Jimmy Kim Alive and the Oscars offices right now.

[1252] I'm more now in Oscar production.

[1253] I've not stepped away.

[1254] I'm still at Jimmy Kim alive, but definitely part -time right now while I'm producing the Oscars.

[1255] Too much.

[1256] Okay, now I'm sorry.

[1257] I had interrupted.

[1258] I just have so many questions.

[1259] How do you have a family when you're a staff writer there?

[1260] That seems impossible.

[1261] I think it actually is kind of impossible.

[1262] I'll be honest with you.

[1263] I think it's why they're not a ton of mothers in a writer's room.

[1264] I think it is a very challenging job in a late -night writer's room.

[1265] I'm one of two moms in the room, but we have a lot of dads in the room.

[1266] I think it's very difficult to balance it, for sure.

[1267] The schedule you just laid out.

[1268] Then you had to squeeze this in now I feel really bad we invited you.

[1269] I know, that's what I'm saying.

[1270] No, you're kidding.

[1271] I'm so happy to be here.

[1272] And by the way, I'm totally relaxed, and I'm not sorry.

[1273] nervous anymore.

[1274] I just want you to know that.

[1275] It is definitely a grind.

[1276] Like the morning routine with kids is tough because I find myself, you know, I'm looking at the news, but I'm also trying to pack their lunches and be present with them.

[1277] And sometimes I feel like when I'm really good at my job, I'm not good at being a mom and vice versa.

[1278] You need those glasses that spell our dystopian future where you're looking at all the news feeds with staring at your kids.

[1279] Oh my God.

[1280] That was part of that Apple commercial.

[1281] I'm like, this is a positive?

[1282] Right.

[1283] This seems terrible.

[1284] Make eye contact.

[1285] Yeah, Monica's a great question.

[1286] How does one start getting coffee and then end up as the head writer.

[1287] Okay, so I was the executive producer's assistant.

[1288] I immediately knew, oh, I want to be in that writer's room.

[1289] Steve O'Donnell was the head writer at the time.

[1290] He's the guy who created the top 10 list at Letterman.

[1291] Brilliant writer.

[1292] He was the head writer, sweet man, also Irish, also Catholic.

[1293] I went to him one day and I said, I really would love to be in your writer's room someday.

[1294] He was an assistant, whatever, just someday.

[1295] On the custodial staff.

[1296] Yeah, I would do anything.

[1297] And about six months later, the executive producer left the show.

[1298] I thought, I'm done, but they kept me there.

[1299] The one you had been assisting.

[1300] Yes, the one I'd been assisting.

[1301] Daniel Kellison left the show.

[1302] Because he wasn't at any of his appointments and his whole schedule is like.

[1303] Right, right.

[1304] He was doing podcasts in the middle of the day.

[1305] Right.

[1306] So he left.

[1307] Then they move me into the segment department.

[1308] The segment department are the ones that do all the interviews.

[1309] They each are assigned to a guest to research and produce.

[1310] Shout out Josh.

[1311] Shout out Josh.

[1312] He's so good.

[1313] He's so fucking good.

[1314] I was just thinking this morning, I was like, Josh gives me a phone call.

[1315] I don't know what I'm going to talk about.

[1316] And he can steer me. to all these stories I didn't know.

[1317] I'm like, he should have a podcast.

[1318] He's great.

[1319] Yeah, he's really good.

[1320] I appreciate that shout out, by the way.

[1321] It's nice when people appreciate the work people do.

[1322] I value him like crazy because other shows, I'm like, I got to come in with about 16 stories.

[1323] And I really have gotten to the point with him where it's like, all I got to do is hop on the phone and I'm going to leave with four or five stories.

[1324] Yes.

[1325] And that's all him.

[1326] It's got to be weird for you now, though, because I would imagine you want to save your stories for your podcast.

[1327] I know that a lot of actors will keep like a little notes app on their phone.

[1328] Like they'll keep a story in there for their late night or for their press.

[1329] What do you do now?

[1330] I don't ever think about, thank God, filling content on this show.

[1331] When Monica and I sit down into a fact check, I think it's Monica.

[1332] Like, she and I have such a bizarre creative chemistry.

[1333] Because when I do other shows without her, I do like, I got to go in with a few stories to tell.

[1334] But with Monica, I sit down and I'm like, well, until my, Rob turns the mics off, we could shoot the shit.

[1335] Yeah, it feels that way as a listener, too.

[1336] It just feels organic.

[1337] like you're listening on someone's conversation, which is nice.

[1338] Yeah, so I don't really ever think about saving anything for here.

[1339] And I don't worry terribly if I've said something here and I say it on your show.

[1340] I'm assuming there's minimal overlap.

[1341] I don't know.

[1342] Maybe I'm wrong.

[1343] Well, if there is, let me assure you that someone's being told that at the show.

[1344] Seriously, there's a whole team of people that when the guest is coming on, do all the research.

[1345] And then if you're up there and you're telling a story, they'll be like a pinch and they're like, he told that on the podcast.

[1346] I always feel bad.

[1347] And Jimmy's like, don't.

[1348] So I used to be like never a story can be repeated.

[1349] But now so many podcasts and so many places for people and social media, it's impossible.

[1350] And by the way, it never looks bad to the show, in my opinion.

[1351] It looks bad for the person who's telling the story for the eighth time and the eighth place.

[1352] They don't have anything else to say.

[1353] And in fact, we never run into trouble.

[1354] It's only an asset that Monica doesn't research because she is the police about when I've gotten to esoteric with the guests.

[1355] And I'm assuming people know stuff that wouldn't.

[1356] be known.

[1357] That's like a vital role.

[1358] It's imperative she doesn't do the research.

[1359] Once in a blue moon, she'll ask what would be a very natural question, curiosity.

[1360] And I go, ugh, I've just seen them get asked that nine times in all these different areas.

[1361] And they have a fucking answer.

[1362] And I don't want to hear that answer.

[1363] I love that, though.

[1364] That's a good dynamic to have both of those.

[1365] That's really smart.

[1366] Yeah.

[1367] So, I don't know what the fuck we were talking about.

[1368] Oh, we were talking about.

[1369] Produce it.

[1370] Produce it.

[1371] Produce it.

[1372] Produce it.

[1373] So then I went into the segment department for a while.

[1374] And season one, two, three, basically through the Matt Damon video, no joke, there would be a Tuesday where we would not have a guest.

[1375] Our music was always booked and we had great musicians because everyone was trying to push these albums and there's these deals with the studios paying for this great performance.

[1376] We always had music.

[1377] It'd be a Tuesday, like, okay, it's three o 'clock.

[1378] We don't have a guest.

[1379] So I would go over with a clipboard over to the Roseville Hotel to the musical guest's hotel room.

[1380] would start interviewing them because I'm like, you're going to be interviewed now.

[1381] We're moving you up.

[1382] So they would be the second guest spot or sometimes the lead guest spot.

[1383] I would say half of my appearances on the show have been like someone fell out.

[1384] A hundred percent.

[1385] Thank you very much for your service.

[1386] I started interviewing musicians and producing their segments.

[1387] I remember week one I did 50 cent Carol King and Slipknot.

[1388] Whoa.

[1389] Walked over there, interviewed them.

[1390] Then I'd go over to Jimmy and say, here's how you're going to interview them.

[1391] Here's some good stories.

[1392] So I started there.

[1393] I loved producing.

[1394] It was great writing the guest segments, but I really wanted to be writing the comedy.

[1395] So Steve O'Donnell called me up about two years into being there and he said, I have a spot as a writer's assistant, would you like it?

[1396] And I was ecstatic.

[1397] I was a writer's assistant for a year and a half.

[1398] At the time, Jimmy allowed his writer's assistants to pitch one idea a day.

[1399] We'd sit around the table every morning and everyone would pitch ideas and it was me and these other two writer assistants and he'd say, if you'd like, you can pitch an idea.

[1400] And I'll never forget the first idea I pitched.

[1401] Even thinking about it, makes me, like, want to break out into Hives.

[1402] It was such a bad idea.

[1403] I've pitched an idea to play Hollywood Boulevard shuffleboard.

[1404] It's as exciting as it sounds, which was that a guest and Jimmy would play shuffleboard using the Walk of Fame stars as the goal.

[1405] I don't hate this, by the way.

[1406] I'll show you footage.

[1407] You will.

[1408] And then he picked it, and I was so excited.

[1409] I was like, oh my God, I have a bit on a late night show.

[1410] And then I was assigned with the director and the producer and we talked it through.

[1411] Like, so what do you see this bit?

[1412] I was like, that's it.

[1413] They just play shuffleboard.

[1414] Have you ever seen shuffleboard?

[1415] No, you haven't because no one watched it.

[1416] And I remember then going to the green room and watching it live on television and it died the slowest, most brutal death.

[1417] And I went home and cried and I thought, well, never again.

[1418] I'm never pitching an idea again.

[1419] It took me a while to get my courage back, started pitching more regularly.

[1420] And then after like a year, I had gotten tons of ideas on and successfully and they were good.

[1421] I was feeling pretty confident, wanted to be a writer, but wasn't quite sure that I could pitch more than one idea a day.

[1422] Because these guys were pitching, you know, five to ten ideas a day.

[1423] And I was stressing over one.

[1424] So then they hired a woman who's a brilliant writer, Jesse Klein, to be a writer on the show.

[1425] And I was so happy for her, but I was so devastated that I was overlooked.

[1426] Did you also have in your mind, well, they have their woman?

[1427] Maybe.

[1428] I would have been like, okay, I know there's only going to be one or two of us in here.

[1429] I was excited.

[1430] There was a woman joining the room.

[1431] It helped immeasurably for me to have another woman in that room, but I thought it should have been my spot, which is also crazy to think that's my spot, like a woman's spot.

[1432] No, how about all the other spots?

[1433] Those could have been yours, too.

[1434] But I was so nervous.

[1435] I had barely spoken to Jimmy.

[1436] I went to his office.

[1437] I knocked on the door.

[1438] I remember shaking, but pretending to be confident.

[1439] And I knocked on his door.

[1440] And I said, can I have five minutes of your time?

[1441] Sure.

[1442] And I walked in and I said, I want to first and foremost say, very excited about Jesse Klein.

[1443] She's a great writer.

[1444] She's amazing.

[1445] Just kind of wondering why you haven't hired me to be a writer, because I'm a writer's assistant who's writing, I'm getting stuff on the show, and I think it's my time.

[1446] And he said, it absolutely is your time.

[1447] I promise you, you're next.

[1448] It's coming.

[1449] And then I remember he was opening up a Sprint Trio phone that was like the coolest new phone at the time.

[1450] Somebody gifted it to him.

[1451] And he's opening at his desk.

[1452] I remember he was like, do you have Sprint?

[1453] Oh my God.

[1454] Oh, my God.

[1455] I was like, I do.

[1456] I do have Sprint.

[1457] And he was, would you like this phone?

[1458] And I remember it being a $300 phone, which was half of what my weekly income was as a writer's assistant.

[1459] And I wanted that phone so badly, but I didn't want him to think that that was enough.

[1460] Like, oh, just give her the phone and she'll shut up for a while.

[1461] So I said, I do want that phone.

[1462] However, I don't want this phone if you think this is going to appease me and I'm not going to want the job because I want the job more than the phone.

[1463] Yes.

[1464] Only barely.

[1465] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1466] Because it's a hell of a phone.

[1467] It's a really good phone.

[1468] It's got these buttons.

[1469] You can press.

[1470] And I left with the trio.

[1471] And then two or three months later, I was promoted to writer.

[1472] And then I was writing for a year and a half, maybe two years.

[1473] And I was promoted to head writer.

[1474] What was that day like?

[1475] When I was promoted to writer, I'll never forget.

[1476] I was going to Maine to see my brother.

[1477] When I was a writer assistant, you can barely pay your rent.

[1478] And I had no money, but I wanted to see my family.

[1479] We all went to Maine.

[1480] And I got promoted a writer.

[1481] And my brother said, there's this really great lobster.

[1482] I'm like, let's go, lobsters on me. And we went and got lobster.

[1483] And I remember the bill being like $380.

[1484] He's like, I got it.

[1485] And I put up my credit card.

[1486] I was like, oh, I don't have this.

[1487] I was so scared.

[1488] And like the whole week, my brother's like, are you sure you?

[1489] I'm like, no, I got it.

[1490] I'm a writer now.

[1491] And I didn't know what a writer made.

[1492] But turns out I had enough to pay for that bill.

[1493] Being a writer was great, but very stressful.

[1494] I still get anxiety in the morning when I see the news coming.

[1495] And they're like, do I have anything?

[1496] Do I have any ideas left in me?

[1497] Well, that was going to be one of my questions is like, how do you navigate block?

[1498] Because it's an endless inferno.

[1499] You're shoveling.

[1500] into.

[1501] Do you have techniques?

[1502] I feel like going outside helps me, like getting fresh air.

[1503] Honestly, sometimes not looking at the news, not looking at what's going on to think, what do I find funny today or what do I find interesting?

[1504] You do when you're a late night writer have to write in the voice of the person that's the host.

[1505] It's not my show, it's his show.

[1506] So I am writing and trying to appease him and the things that I know he would like.

[1507] But then I do find some of my best ideas come from when I shut all that off.

[1508] And I think, what would make me and my friends laugh tonight?

[1509] What do I find funny?

[1510] And I try to encourage our writers to do the same.

[1511] Well, I bet it's because the first thing is so cerebral.

[1512] And then the second thing is much more emotional and passionate.

[1513] If you look to that place, I think it could be fuel because it's not what you think you should do, but it's what you feel.

[1514] Absolutely.

[1515] I think it's good advice for everyone to just kind of try to find that feeling.

[1516] Because I think particularly with the way we're so structured at late nights, like, here are the stories.

[1517] Here's what writing to.

[1518] And every day is kind of the same and that it's the same structure and the same goal we have to try really hard to step outside of that.

[1519] One example of when an idea came to me that I loved was I was sitting with Jimmy and my friend Kelly Oxford.

[1520] She was very big on Twitter.

[1521] She took Twitter by storm.

[1522] Oh, did she ever?

[1523] Yes.

[1524] And she was reading all these horrible things.

[1525] People were saying about on Twitter at my kitchen table.

[1526] And then Jimmy starts trying to make her feel better and he starts reading all the horrible things.

[1527] People said about him on Twitter.

[1528] And I found it to be this really nice moment of they're not alone in this.

[1529] And I was like, it doesn't matter who you are.

[1530] People are horrible to you.

[1531] And then I came up with the idea of mean tweets, which was that people would come on the show and read the worst things people have said about them.

[1532] I know you've never done it.

[1533] We'll talk about that next.

[1534] We'll get to that.

[1535] Will Arnett was actually the very first person to read one.

[1536] I never forget it.

[1537] And I didn't know if it was going to go well or not.

[1538] But then once we banked and we got like Will Ferrell, we banked a bunch.

[1539] And then once that first one made it to air, it became so easy to pitch.

[1540] And in fact, all these guests would come on and say, I want to read me and tweet.

[1541] And some of them were like, you can't.

[1542] And some of them we were begging to.

[1543] And that became a big.

[1544] Isn't that the gold chalice, right?

[1545] I didn't say chalice, right?

[1546] I don't even know if gold chalice is the same.

[1547] But isn't that the very highest watermark.

[1548] When you write a bit that then becomes a staple in the show, like, everyone's just got to be like, whew, that's good.

[1549] A repeatable bit is the gold standard at late night that if you can go up with a bit that people want to see again is wonderful.

[1550] And also, So it's such a filler of time.

[1551] Yes.

[1552] It's a dream.

[1553] On the Formula One podcast I do, we were doing a thing called Zaddies, which is the driver's fathers.

[1554] And you would learn all about how these, because presumably they're all rich kids, like, what did their father?

[1555] And then as this season ended, I was like, well, we're out of Zaddies.

[1556] Uh -oh.

[1557] Yeah, that sense of like there's a vacuum now.

[1558] Totally.

[1559] It's so scary when you have, you know, 15 minutes to fill at night and you've got two things.

[1560] Like, oh, no. How are we going to dance?

[1561] I feel sad now that I know that that was your creation.

[1562] Don't be sad.

[1563] What was your assumption?

[1564] Because, yes, I've been asked to do that three or four times, and I've said no. I don't want to do it.

[1565] Yeah, I'm not asking you.

[1566] I know you can ask, and I know you said no. I respect that you say no. And I'm going to tell you right now that I've totally turned on mean tweets.

[1567] Oh, you have.

[1568] I found it very valuable and funny, and I found at the beginning, I love that bit.

[1569] What I love the most about it was that people were willing to be self -deprecating.

[1570] I know you're willing to be self -depicating.

[1571] I know that's not your issue.

[1572] I'm going to predict what your issue was with it because I think it's now actually my own.

[1573] So I love that bit.

[1574] I honestly think it was helpful to people.

[1575] It's the same thing this show does, which is like, hey, guess what?

[1576] Even Brad Pitt gets shit on.

[1577] That's the thing I agree.

[1578] Especially for younger people who might not feel good about themselves or getting bullied to think, oh, my God, Hallie Berry gets called ugly.

[1579] Everyone's bad.

[1580] The most encouraging thing I've ever read was this takedown of Aaron Sorkin is a terrible writer.

[1581] And I was like, oh, thank God, I read that.

[1582] Yeah.

[1583] Like if someone has the goal to say he's a terrible writer.

[1584] Yeah, that guy recently said like Martin Short's not funny.

[1585] I'm like, what?

[1586] I know.

[1587] It's helpful because then you can go like, yeah, maybe some of the shit people are saying about me is not.

[1588] Yes.

[1589] So I found at the beginning it to be helpful.

[1590] Yeah.

[1591] As it went on and as it became more popular, I felt like people were purposely writing horrible things about people hoping for their tweet to get on the show.

[1592] And I sensed it because the way we would do it is you just search by keyword.

[1593] Like if Mon is coming on the show, we would put in your name on Twitter and we'd see what people are writing about you.

[1594] I was like, wait, there's no way there's this many.

[1595] And I felt like people were maybe writing, hoping to get them.

[1596] But I also felt like it encouraged people to say horrible things.

[1597] Yeah.

[1598] I wouldn't do it because I didn't want to reward the people who did that.

[1599] Exactly what I thought you were going to say.

[1600] There's so many people who had written such nice things about me. And even Kelly, at her worst, I'm sure, it was probably still 98 % positive for people who thought she was a brilliant and funny writer.

[1601] So it's like, I hate the notion of giving energy and reward to people that are shitting on things.

[1602] I fully understand that.

[1603] But I probably would have done it if I knew you created it.

[1604] Yeah.

[1605] I thought about reaching out you personally, but I was like, you know what?

[1606] I bet he has a really good reason for this, and I'm not going to push.

[1607] You're a great guess.

[1608] You don't need it.

[1609] But I've now changed my tune on it because I feel like the world is so negative.

[1610] I feel the same.

[1611] I don't want to reward it.

[1612] So we've stopped actually doing it.

[1613] It is a great bit, though.

[1614] And it also accomplished all the other things that you listed.

[1615] So it's not like it didn't have merit.

[1616] My goal was always to get Obama to do it, and he did it.

[1617] And that's not die happily.

[1618] What were they saying?

[1619] I mean, people say horrible things about him.

[1620] But I was like, let's not send like the horrible, horrible ones.

[1621] Right.

[1622] And I also, I had a standard of, like, I would never send anything racist or homophobic.

[1623] I was like, those I don't need out in the world.

[1624] But I sent Obama's people pages of them, the softer -ish ones, but some really hard ones in there.

[1625] And then they took out anything that was really bad.

[1626] And it was all soft ones.

[1627] And then he does it.

[1628] The mean tweets went in the monologue.

[1629] He comes out first guest.

[1630] First thing he says, he was, you know, you guys got to find meaner tweets.

[1631] Oh, come on.

[1632] We found meaner tweets.

[1633] Your people cut the good ones out.

[1634] Don't worry.

[1635] I'll do it.

[1636] Okay, great.

[1637] Your people need to find meaner tweets.

[1638] Monica hates when I talk like Obama.

[1639] Malia, Chaucer?

[1640] Oh, God.

[1641] Michelle?

[1642] God.

[1643] That's really good, Dexter.

[1644] Thank you, Molly.

[1645] I'm not nervous around you anymore.

[1646] I'm going to bring, like, a loom to Idaho this year.

[1647] So I'll be out there making a quarrel to something.

[1648] That's a thing, though.

[1649] He is.

[1650] He's, like, doing push -ups and then talking about feelings.

[1651] It's very confusing.

[1652] Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

[1653] If you dare.

[1654] Okay.

[1655] I want to know the pros and cons of working in an environment that is so fucking blurry.

[1656] So Mickey works there.

[1657] Kevin the son works there.

[1658] Uncle Frank worked there.

[1659] Sal work there.

[1660] Kledo works there.

[1661] You work there.

[1662] I have to imagine you're experiencing the same benefits and prices that Monica and I face.

[1663] And I'm curious, what's the good part and what's the bad part?

[1664] Okay.

[1665] I say the good part is even before I was technically family.

[1666] That place is a family.

[1667] My biggest worry when I started dating Jimmy, you know, I'd been head writer for, I think, a year and a half, two years, we started dating.

[1668] My biggest concern was the way it was going to change their dynamic at work.

[1669] Because I'm in a room with predominantly men.

[1670] As in any place, you like to make fun of the boss, and the boss is not around.

[1671] And I felt myself almost overcompensating like I was shitting on him too hard.

[1672] Right, right.

[1673] Because I wanted them to know, like, it's safe here, I swear.

[1674] Yes.

[1675] And I have become healthy or not very good to compartmentalizing.

[1676] So work is work, home is home.

[1677] And when I'm at work, I can talk shit on Jimmy.

[1678] I actually see things that I don't think Jimmy would like, but I turn it off and I go home and it's just totally separate.

[1679] That would be for me the hardest thing to decide.

[1680] Yes.

[1681] Like, is something cancerous happening that actually needs to be addressed before it lowers the show?

[1682] Right.

[1683] Or am I being protective of someone I love?

[1684] How do I know?

[1685] So this is weird.

[1686] I find that the benefit to it is that I can get into Jimmy and get him to change his mind on things.

[1687] and I think he has a greater sense of obligation because I'm his wife.

[1688] I've seen people try to fight him on stuff and he gets stubborn.

[1689] And if I go into him like, you cannot do this, you cannot say this.

[1690] We've got to change this, whatever.

[1691] People always push back on me, always.

[1692] And then 98 % of the time listen to what I said.

[1693] I shouldn't be speaking for other people, but I do think it serves a lot of people at the show in a way that I can get in with him.

[1694] Like, I got this.

[1695] I'll take care of it.

[1696] I have to have the uncomfortable conversations with him that other people don't want to have.

[1697] Right.

[1698] I have nothing to lose.

[1699] So I can say you can't say that word in the monologue.

[1700] Trust me, you're going to get blowback.

[1701] Or if someone else went to him, you'd like, get over yourself.

[1702] And then the benefit of this familial setting is it's heartwarming, it's connected, it's fulfilling in many ways, I assume.

[1703] Because sometimes you can feel like your work is just this weird compartment that's not really a part of your life.

[1704] But something about spending time with people you would anyway.

[1705] There's something great about that.

[1706] But also, I presume, feelings are much more on the table.

[1707] Oh, yeah.

[1708] I have a very thick skin.

[1709] I think you have to be to be a late night TV writer because, like I said, all those pages of things you're writing every day, on a good day, 90 % of you are rejected, you know?

[1710] 10 % of what you wrote got on.

[1711] So I have that relationship with my husband, which is weird.

[1712] He can reject me every day and he does.

[1713] I'm used to it.

[1714] It doesn't bother me because like I said, I compartmentalize its work.

[1715] And also at the end of the day, it's his show.

[1716] It's his name.

[1717] I have respect for him.

[1718] Like, do the material you want to do that you're comfortable with.

[1719] I'm I don't care.

[1720] Occasionally, I will pitch something that he rejects that I just think, oh, no, you're an idiot.

[1721] That is a great bit.

[1722] And it only happens when it's something really personal to me. So I remember it was right after we learned that the secret was out, that Rovue Wade was going to be overturned.

[1723] And I frantically wrote this great bit about it.

[1724] And he rejected it.

[1725] And I have never been angry at him in all my life.

[1726] And I carried it home, which I don't do.

[1727] So I get home and he did something else about it, but it was light and it wasn't as serious.

[1728] as I wanted to be.

[1729] That's his prerogative.

[1730] It's his show.

[1731] But I was fueled and fired up already and I got so mad.

[1732] I got home and I just lost edge circle.

[1733] I'm like, I can't believe you rejected that bit.

[1734] In like 20 years, I've never gotten upset about a bit.

[1735] And he said, oh my God, this is why I didn't, all his reasons.

[1736] And I said, none of those mean anything to me. This is what we needed to say tonight.

[1737] And I don't want to hear from a man right now.

[1738] How I should be feeling about Rovi Wade.

[1739] And he felt terrible.

[1740] And again, this is where that relationship goes, I wish you would come over to my office and said all of this, and I would have done it.

[1741] The thing about having a late night daily show is that...

[1742] Hi, Molly, I love you.

[1743] I can see that your eyes are...

[1744] I know, I'm getting emotional.

[1745] It's intense.

[1746] Yeah.

[1747] It is.

[1748] Now I'm getting emotional.

[1749] The grind of that daily show and having to make those decisions, he has so much to deal with and so much at stake.

[1750] And when we're doing things that...

[1751] Sorry, now I'm getting emotional.

[1752] When we do things that could not be popular with some parts of the country.

[1753] It opens him up to a vulnerability and to attack, and I've watched it time and time again.

[1754] I've watched him get trampled for things he said on air, and it's really hard to watch somebody you love.

[1755] His vulnerability has been exploited at times.

[1756] Yes.

[1757] And it's heartbreaking.

[1758] It is.

[1759] I've fucking been furious.

[1760] Oh, you're calling someone a crybaby because their son just overcame the scariest thing to, like, what kind of fucking horrific human are you to take this moment.

[1761] Put your politics down for 30 seconds and be a human.

[1762] I feel you.

[1763] I stand by everything he's said and he's done.

[1764] It's really hard to watch other people writing his narrative for him and completely misunderstanding him at times.

[1765] Well, intentionally misunderstanding him at times.

[1766] You know him, I know him.

[1767] He's truly one of the kindest people I know.

[1768] And when I see people shitting on him and calling him things a pedophile or whatever, these crazy conspiracy.

[1769] the beginning, you're like, oh, who cares?

[1770] Who cares?

[1771] Who cares?

[1772] And then over time, you just start to make, what is going on in this country?

[1773] And this is why I turned on me in tweets, by the way.

[1774] The total misinformation, the anger, the vitriol we have towards people who might vote for someone differently.

[1775] It's really destructive.

[1776] I know that probably also sounds hypocritical, because I am pretty clear that I'm liberal and progressive, and I think our show a lot of times is.

[1777] But I feel like the human part is gone.

[1778] Yeah, the humanity.

[1779] It used to.

[1780] to be that something like a child being in danger would transcend everything.

[1781] Right.

[1782] And by God, it has to transcend everything.

[1783] It's demoralizing when that can be the reaction or that people could be excited that someone's husband was attacked in their home because they're on the wrong political side.

[1784] And we do it to some degree too.

[1785] We're kind of hoping these people die of COVID.

[1786] Yeah.

[1787] You know, so it's like we've all suffered.

[1788] Like all of our humanity's been reduced.

[1789] But when I see other broadcasters try to use Jimmy as takedown, you know, like Fox News or Sean Hannity or Tucker Carlson and these guys who try to take what Jimmy's saying and weaponize it as if he's the enemy in this situation.

[1790] It's intolerable to me. Yeah, they make him an archetype of the enemy.

[1791] Yes.

[1792] That would kill me. I generally have gotten good.

[1793] It's taken a long time.

[1794] But I don't generally fight people on Twitter.

[1795] But if someone says something about Kristen, it's for.

[1796] fucking on.

[1797] I've had people say stuff about Monica and it's on.

[1798] It's way harder to watch someone that doesn't deserve it.

[1799] I got off Twitter because I just think it got really ugly there, but also people I don't know, I don't want to allow.

[1800] Why do I care about your opinion of me or my husband?

[1801] You don't know me. You don't know him.

[1802] No, he's not a pedophile.

[1803] No, we're not like drinking children's blood with Tom Hanks.

[1804] If one more person sends me a meme of Jimmy on The Man Show, I know he hosted the man show.

[1805] I know he did a Carl Malone impression he later apologized for.

[1806] I know these things.

[1807] I know he did comedy in the 90s.

[1808] You don't have to, like, taunt me and try to harass me with this stuff all the time.

[1809] And so I now have found myself getting much more protective of the things he says and does.

[1810] And then that also doesn't feel like that is in a line with comedy.

[1811] I feel like it's always a struggle.

[1812] I feel like now I read through the monologue before he does it.

[1813] And I think, what could be the sound bite that gets him in trouble tomorrow?

[1814] I know.

[1815] And it's such a dangerous way to live because I do believe that comedy should be provocative.

[1816] It should be edgy.

[1817] Not every joke should be scrutinized.

[1818] They're jokes.

[1819] Well, yeah, it's maintaining a personality and a fingerprint without getting in trouble is really hard.

[1820] Because you just start taking out every saying.

[1821] I mean, we have it.

[1822] I edit this show and I do that.

[1823] This line has to go because somebody will read it as this.

[1824] And then you're like, well, now there's no sentence.

[1825] Right.

[1826] Like, now there's not even a question or a sentence.

[1827] What do we do about that?

[1828] It's a very hard line.

[1829] It's tricky.

[1830] I feel like you're just always on a tight rope now.

[1831] I'm just kind of done.

[1832] Me too.

[1833] Yeah.

[1834] I just don't care anymore.

[1835] I know.

[1836] Well, the positive thing is actually comedy's here to rescue us.

[1837] When I look at where the optimism is, where the hopefulness, it's like me watching Shane Gillison going like, oh, wow, this motherfucker's going to pull us right out of this place.

[1838] A lot of these people, I might not agree with them.

[1839] They might go too far sometimes, but I'm like, here we go.

[1840] Yep, that's your point of view.

[1841] I might be in for 70 % of it.

[1842] Maybe not for 30.

[1843] I don't need you to be pure.

[1844] I don't need 100%.

[1845] And by the way, back to the tail wagging the dog, they have the proof because they're in front of 5 ,000 people and they're doing that in 75 cities.

[1846] And they're really showing us, no, y 'all, most of us are fucking rational.

[1847] You're absolutely right.

[1848] And I feel really grateful to have grown up with comedy that maybe would not work today.

[1849] But I feel like it really helped shape me. I don't feel as judgmental of other people's comedy because it's comedy.

[1850] And if you don't like it, don't listen to it.

[1851] Yeah.

[1852] You go to the line, you step over it.

[1853] And you step over it and sometimes it's, you know.

[1854] Yeah.

[1855] Like I look at Howard Stern and Don Rickles and these guys.

[1856] I'm like, that wouldn't work now.

[1857] And I'm so grateful that it did.

[1858] That's the other thing I have when I'm feeling very agitated by it.

[1859] I'm like, all right, guys, go enjoy this life where you don't laugh anymore and you don't have sex anymore.

[1860] And all these things like, have a fucking blast.

[1861] Like, read what you sow.

[1862] I do want to take some responsibility a little bit, though, because the reason we care is because we do want mass appeal.

[1863] We are acknowledging that we want a lot of listeners and we want to be number one and we want to have this deal and we want this cool.

[1864] Yeah, we just want everyone in the whole world to be cool and we're not.

[1865] So we wouldn't care if we had like a very small niche audience that agreed with everything we did.

[1866] We want more than that and we sort of have to be like, well, it comes with this.

[1867] It's a very good point.

[1868] You've kept us honest, and I agree.

[1869] God damn it, Monica.

[1870] Fucked you.

[1871] It's my job.

[1872] I'm going to land this plane on a lighthearted one.

[1873] How has doing this job diminished your view of famous people and how has it bolstered it?

[1874] Oh, that's a great question.

[1875] Because you have literally, as we just said, you've seen several thousand come through and got to see how they behave and how many people they arrive with or they don't arrive with.

[1876] How much they fight about this or that?

[1877] I think there are a lot of famous people who take themselves way too seriously.

[1878] I see why they do.

[1879] We've built them up.

[1880] I would just say like everyone needs someone in their camp this tells them no. And the ones who have surrounded themselves with yes men are the scariest ones.

[1881] I understand why they are that way.

[1882] I think it comes from a deep, insecure place.

[1883] They're all afraid to fail.

[1884] They're afraid of the people we've just talked about attacking them.

[1885] And so they are kind of on high alert.

[1886] But the power and the ego is a little out of control.

[1887] I've seen it many times at the show with guests I won't name.

[1888] The ones that, I feel like are the best, are the ones who are surrounded by people who are not afraid to tell them no and usually have a really good loving relationship in their life, someone who keeps them in check.

[1889] So I agree with all those things.

[1890] And also, I've had many different people in my life climb all the different levels.

[1891] I have compassion because what seems pretty consistent is it's almost impossible to go through the process and not be affected.

[1892] I've been affected and I'm not sure how.

[1893] So I'm like sympathetic to it.

[1894] It's fascinating because it is people being deities on planet Earth.

[1895] In this democracy and meritocracy, there's still royalty.

[1896] And some people I feel truly bad for, like I think their life has been made incredibly small and I don't think it's their fault.

[1897] And so I'll even be chatting with someone about, have you been to this store?

[1898] They have not been to a store in a decade.

[1899] And also, I would say in general, there's, something incredibly powerful and wonderful about someone who would risk it all to share their point of view.

[1900] So it's like there's a quality to that also unites all these people.

[1901] So I don't know.

[1902] I just find it fascinating.

[1903] It's never not going to be fascinating.

[1904] I agree.

[1905] Even if I'm playing it cool in front of the person, I'm like, how out to see are you?

[1906] Right.

[1907] Let's see.

[1908] It's interesting there's so many different levels of it too.

[1909] I think we have a lot of famous people coming in and out of our lives, whether it's through work or friendship.

[1910] And it's interesting that you can have very, very famous people around you and they can handle it in two totally different ways.

[1911] Like Matt Damon, I'm going to say it again.

[1912] I'm all excited.

[1913] Say it.

[1914] Well, you were my wing woman at the air premiere.

[1915] Yes, that's right.

[1916] You and Jimmy together.

[1917] Of course.

[1918] We were so excited for you.

[1919] But he is a guy to me. He's as famous as you can get and does not change the way he behaves out in the world.

[1920] We've been out with him.

[1921] And it's like, oh, is it safe to go to this place or can we go here?

[1922] He's like, well, of course.

[1923] He is still acting.

[1924] I imagine what he was acting like 20 years ago.

[1925] Well, what I like about it is it is a resilience.

[1926] It's a refusal to give up your life.

[1927] Yes.

[1928] A lot of it has to be like, I have to just fucking deal with whatever because I can't change my whole life to accommodate this.

[1929] Right.

[1930] There's almost a stubbornness at play that I end up really admiring and liking certain people.

[1931] I also think it is different for women than it is for men.

[1932] It's more dangerous.

[1933] Because women, yeah, dangerous and also women going out to a grocery store without any makeup on is on the cover of a magazine.

[1934] Look how bad she looks.

[1935] Where Matt Damon, not having a makeup on going to 7 -Eleven, looks hot and no one cares.

[1936] Yeah.

[1937] So I think we put this pressure on women.

[1938] Yeah, we put all this pressure on women.

[1939] Like how they look when they're out and how they act.

[1940] Yeah.

[1941] And I do think that women naturally go a little more inward to famous women.

[1942] Well, that's solely why we have refused to ever do video in here because I want the person.

[1943] to be evaluated by what they're saying and what opinions they're sharing and not whether you think they're aging gracefully or shamefully.

[1944] That has to be weeded out.

[1945] I love that.

[1946] That's great.

[1947] I mean, but it's also tempting because like some of them are so fun and they would make great videos.

[1948] But ultimately, like, there's so much on the plate.

[1949] Then they have to go through hair or makeup.

[1950] And then there's probably someone here for touchups.

[1951] And the whole thing, it's not their fault.

[1952] They have to do all that.

[1953] And a dude doesn't.

[1954] Because we'll tear them up if they don't.

[1955] We will.

[1956] We've seen it.

[1957] I mean, look, that's a whole magazine industry.

[1958] is just judging women and how they look all the time.

[1959] Sean Freud.

[1960] Yeah, do you think, since you do have so many friends who are really successful, do you think the men get shinier, they feed off of it more, and the women kind of dim a little bit?

[1961] Yeah, I think that a man who's single in his 50s is sexy and a woman who's single in her 50s like, what went wrong?

[1962] Women cannot win.

[1963] If they age naturally, who, she looks rough.

[1964] And if she doesn't, what's she doing to her face?

[1965] Exactly.

[1966] Yes, yes, yes.

[1967] And men, I don't find they have as much pressure.

[1968] You might disagree, but I just don't think there's much pressure.

[1969] No, no, we don't at all.

[1970] We don't at all.

[1971] I would never want to be a famous woman.

[1972] I think it's a horrible thing.

[1973] I don't know how these women do it.

[1974] I mean, you're married to one of the great ones, and I think it's so hard that pressure would feel like way too much.

[1975] It's not fair.

[1976] It's still not fair.

[1977] Yeah.

[1978] It's still not fair.

[1979] Well, I want to be the first to tell you as you listen to the show.

[1980] I do.

[1981] This was a 10.

[1982] Really?

[1983] That's very kind.

[1984] I love being here with you guys.

[1985] I love you, Molly.

[1986] I feel so lucky to be invited into your family so often.

[1987] Thank you.

[1988] We love having you and we love your family.

[1989] And Monica, thank you for making me feel comfortable and invited.

[1990] It was very kind of you.

[1991] She made the time to make sure I wasn't being tortured by imposter syndrome.

[1992] Thank you.

[1993] It's like the mean tweets.

[1994] I think it's good for people to know you have that because you're running a crazy ship.

[1995] Two now.

[1996] Two.

[1997] And I'm a family.

[1998] You're doing all this stuff.

[1999] And you have imposter syndrome.

[2000] That's going to relieve a lot of people, I think.

[2001] I hope so.

[2002] Thank you.

[2003] All right.

[2004] I love you.

[2005] Love you.

[2006] Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong.

[2007] Okay, so Molly, Molly McNarney.

[2008] Oh, Molly, Molly, Molly.

[2009] What a freaking delight to have her in.

[2010] She's a beast.

[2011] She is.

[2012] She's a bad mofo.

[2013] And she's working on the Oscars right now.

[2014] Busy B. So a couple nights ago, Lincoln had a terrible night's sleep.

[2015] She certainly seems to have what I have always had, which is like, insomnia induced by thoughts, right?

[2016] And so I had felt bad for her that Nikesa, she was up a bunch.

[2017] And then when she was getting ready for school, she came in and she was like, oh, my God, I'm like so tired.

[2018] I don't know how I'm going to do this.

[2019] Like she was really starting to freak out that she wasn't going to be able to get through the day.

[2020] And I said, oh, my God, I know that feeling so well.

[2021] I've had that so many times.

[2022] I said, well, you do me a favor?

[2023] we go in the mirror right now.

[2024] And I wasn't with her.

[2025] Like, I'm in bed journaling.

[2026] And then she walks in around the corner to the mirror in my bathroom.

[2027] And so she gets in front of the mirror and I said, say, I'm a bad bitch.

[2028] And she goes, I'm a bad bitch.

[2029] And I said, I'm a bad bitch and I'm going to fuck up this day.

[2030] Oh, wow.

[2031] And she goes, I'm a bad bitch and I'm going to fuck up this day.

[2032] And then she came out and Monica, it was a 180.

[2033] Great.

[2034] She was like, I'm a monster.

[2035] I'm going to fight through this, and I'm going to have a great day despite this because I'm a bad bitch.

[2036] And I was thinking, that's life in a nutshell.

[2037] You just go like, yeah, here's a sitch.

[2038] And then I have a decision.

[2039] Am I going to be dreading this all day long?

[2040] Or am I, is this going to be a feather in my cap that I persevered in this?

[2041] That's really true.

[2042] We all can decide.

[2043] Yeah.

[2044] Very sweet.

[2045] Okay, yeah.

[2046] So Molly was really great.

[2047] And we haven't had anyone like her on to discuss.

[2048] the B .T .S. Of a late night talk show.

[2049] I know.

[2050] I found it incredibly interesting.

[2051] Me too.

[2052] Especially how the sausage is made like in the morning.

[2053] It's starting at 5 and here's all the news clip and then has been whittled down to this and now we run off of these 10.

[2054] Yes.

[2055] That's very cool.

[2056] The amount of shit that is getting done.

[2057] And the stress of stuff coming up midday after you've written the entire monologue.

[2058] Oh my gosh.

[2059] You must like have just a simmering anxiety throughout the whole day hoping you get to the monologue before something pops up huge and just also just starting over every day it's so depleting and then you start over oh man that takes a very specific energy yes in fortitude okay so we do mention on a previous fact check we address the creative difference but it starts here like we brought it up here at the beginning of this episode because it was that morning.

[2060] It was that morning and we start to talk about it and we say, like, we'll talk about it, but then we didn't.

[2061] And then the day that we recorded that fact check, we talked about it.

[2062] But yeah.

[2063] It's out of order.

[2064] It's out of order.

[2065] A little quick recap.

[2066] It was just that the amount of time up top of an episode before you enter the actual interview.

[2067] And I was happy because I think we handled it really well.

[2068] Yeah.

[2069] But now I feel a little, like, do we cheat?

[2070] Because we really didn't disagree.

[2071] But it still could have imploded, I guess.

[2072] We did disagree.

[2073] I mean, because you had one instinct, and then when I heard it, mine was the other.

[2074] But we didn't have a difference about what we think should happen on the show.

[2075] Ultimately, we want.

[2076] It wasn't a crisis by any stretch.

[2077] It would have been better if it was a crisis?

[2078] Well, I don't.

[2079] I mean, sure, for the sake of the show, it would be better drama.

[2080] but I don't want to invite that in.

[2081] I don't mean better drama.

[2082] I mean, it would have been a bigger thing to overcome.

[2083] It would have been a bigger deal if we really had an actual creative difference that we then handled very well.

[2084] Yeah.

[2085] But we just handled a creative similarity well.

[2086] I got you.

[2087] So you're saying we shouldn't be so proud of ourselves.

[2088] But I still want to be proud.

[2089] But it wasn't a huge challenge is what you're saying.

[2090] Yeah.

[2091] Okay.

[2092] I guess I agree with that.

[2093] But that was based.

[2094] I mean, really, that was in your court for it to be or not to be.

[2095] Because, like, you just were open to that pretty quickly.

[2096] But had you said, absolutely not, that would ruin the episode.

[2097] That's the most important thing.

[2098] You know, like, it could have become one, but it just didn't.

[2099] That's true.

[2100] Oh, yes, because on the Curt and Wyatt episode, and some people might have found this, we put out the episode, the beginning before Kurt comes in.

[2101] is long.

[2102] And then when you listened, you felt it was too long, understandably.

[2103] And so we went back in and trimmed it up.

[2104] So if you are a rare bird who listened...

[2105] Well, I already know.

[2106] There's people in the comments that were like, oh, I feel so lucky I got to hear both.

[2107] I heard about the debate, and then I went and listened to both.

[2108] Wow.

[2109] Yeah.

[2110] So some people did hear both and were excited to have...

[2111] It's like a crack.

[2112] It only existed for three hours on a month.

[2113] Monday morning.

[2114] No, it was.

[2115] It got up there pretty quickly.

[2116] Was it the same day?

[2117] Yeah.

[2118] I don't think it was the same day.

[2119] Okay.

[2120] But whatever.

[2121] So people will be excited.

[2122] Anyway, yes, if I had fought back, that would have been a problem.

[2123] But I wouldn't have fought back because I didn't disagree.

[2124] Right, right, right.

[2125] I'm just saying it had the potential to be a real dust job, but it didn't shake out that way.

[2126] Yeah, it's true.

[2127] Molly put it on a Wednesday.

[2128] What?

[2129] Molly was a Wednesday recording.

[2130] I knew it was like, it was a significant amount of time after.

[2131] But then it wasn't that day.

[2132] Yeah.

[2133] Might have been the first time we were together.

[2134] Maybe it happened that day of.

[2135] It wasn't.

[2136] There was a text you sent that morning to us, and that's when we did it.

[2137] Okay.

[2138] Shall we look at the text?

[2139] Yeah.

[2140] Okay.

[2141] This will solve this once in for all.

[2142] 17th, Wednesday, 10 .30 a .m. That's when I sent the text.

[2143] Mm -hmm.

[2144] Well, I stand corrected.

[2145] I'm wrong.

[2146] You're right.

[2147] Anyhow.

[2148] So it was up for two full days.

[2149] Yeah.

[2150] So then predominantly, the bulk of the listeners heard it that way.

[2151] Yeah.

[2152] Okay, is it Nevada or Nevada?

[2153] Jimmy says it's Nevada.

[2154] Yeah, me too.

[2155] And you say that.

[2156] So let's see what this lady says.

[2157] What was a random lady at 7 -Eleven?

[2158] Particular word is, first of all, the kinds of things you're going to say with Nevada.

[2159] like Las Vegas, Nevada, Reno, Nevada, et cetera.

[2160] The state of Nevada, I visited Nevada.

[2161] You might also want to try using some other words that have that black cat file.

[2162] Like we have a state called Nevada.

[2163] Okay, well, she said Nevada a lot.

[2164] She sure did.

[2165] So I think it's Nevada.

[2166] But we haven't heard of that black cat vowel yet.

[2167] She was getting into some major grammar.

[2168] Yeah, it's like when they're teaching kids, they give all these cute names to like if it's long or short.

[2169] Yeah, and you put like the hat on top.

[2170] Yeah, black hat, black hat, black cat.

[2171] Top hat, hat on a hat.

[2172] Okay, I got a really good fact.

[2173] She did that day of work at KSDK St. Louis, NBC Local News, and you said that it could have been.

[2174] Tom may have been working there.

[2175] The boss, yeah.

[2176] Oh, did you ask him?

[2177] Tom, Kristen's dad.

[2178] I asked Kristen.

[2179] He worked at the competition.

[2180] He worked at KMOV News 4 CBS.

[2181] Oh, so maybe if she had interned there, she would have been a news anchor right now because that anchor would have loved her job and persuaded her to follow it.

[2182] Probably.

[2183] Talk about competition.

[2184] Like, there's only whatever there is.

[2185] There's three channels in your town in Atlanta, and there's three anchors.

[2186] So it's almost like if you're interning somebody, it's like you're kind of grooming and helping the competition.

[2187] And also it's like, you don't need any more competition.

[2188] It's like, there's only three jobs available.

[2189] That's a scarcity mindset.

[2190] She might have been McAvelli and been like, oh, this woman is definitely smart as hell and cute.

[2191] I don't need her in my job pool.

[2192] Oh.

[2193] You ever think about that.

[2194] I've thought about it that way.

[2195] I never thought about it that way.

[2196] Right.

[2197] But it all worked out.

[2198] It sure did.

[2199] So thank God she did that.

[2200] Yes.

[2201] I think she was just like, it almost sounded like she was like, this isn't fun.

[2202] Like, this is what you do.

[2203] You read other people's words all day long.

[2204] Which I, certainly a lot of anchors love it, right?

[2205] Sure.

[2206] And I can see where she's saying that.

[2207] I would like to hear from someone that's just, like, bonkers for the job.

[2208] Well, I'm sure a lot of people are.

[2209] Yeah.

[2210] But, yeah, that was her experience.

[2211] We got some military shoppers overhead.

[2212] More than one.

[2213] You probably don't have this thought.

[2214] This would be a you and Liz on synced kind of conversation.

[2215] Okay, what?

[2216] Are you ever on alert for us getting invaded?

[2217] Like when you see six military helicopters flying around L .A., does it ever cross your mind like, hmm, I wonder if like we're getting attacked in any way?

[2218] Interesting.

[2219] That's my first thought.

[2220] Is it?

[2221] Yeah.

[2222] And I'm wondering if that's a gendered thing.

[2223] If I saw a bunch of military copters, I don't know that I think we were getting invaded necessarily, but I definitely would think something bad is happening right now.

[2224] Yeah.

[2225] Like I had this crazy theory.

[2226] You may remember it.

[2227] But there was a period of time in L .A. and it lasted for weeks.

[2228] And it was three Osprey airplanes, the kind that the propellers, they rotate down so they can take off vertically.

[2229] They're cool.

[2230] They're like a hybrid of a helicopter and an airplane.

[2231] And they were flying in this exact distance from one another for a month over L .A. And they were seeming to me going in a pattern like you would mow your lawn.

[2232] I'd, like, see them far out, and they would just be gradually working their way across the sky.

[2233] And at that point, my conclusion, which I kind of stand by, I was like, they have some kind of really sensitive gigameter, and there's been, like, they have intelligence that there's, like, a dirty bomb in L .A., and they are scanning L .A. to detect the radiation.

[2234] Yeah, interesting.

[2235] Because why else would they be flying a grid over L .A. for so long?

[2236] My thought first is they're testing stuff.

[2237] Okay, practicing.

[2238] Yeah, they're practicing, they're testing.

[2239] Running drills.

[2240] Running drills.

[2241] You're in water show.

[2242] Sure.

[2243] What's that?

[2244] You know, air shows where you gather in a runway in the military comes and brings cool shit and a harrier jet takes off vertically.

[2245] That's what you're talking about.

[2246] Do they have them here?

[2247] They have them in Chicago.

[2248] Yeah, they're big in rural America.

[2249] I've never seen it.

[2250] Oh, and they're famous for disasters.

[2251] constantly people because they got stumped people flying planes and they come in too low and there's the internet's riddled with air show disasters five flying next to each other and doing like crazy turns and what's the water part that was new to me as well it was on lake michigan oh okay maybe there's boats i never actually we would just see the planes maybe they dip into the water and come out make a splash yeah amphibious airplane i'm a fearful person i'm a fearful person So I always get a little anxious when I see anything in the sky.

[2252] But you don't think invasion.

[2253] I don't think specifically that.

[2254] I go to like how crazy it must have been at Pearl Harbor.

[2255] Exactly.

[2256] Like now there's just the sky is full of enemy.

[2257] Squadron of Mitsubishi airplanes.

[2258] Yeah.

[2259] It's happened.

[2260] Well, it's happening.

[2261] Here?

[2262] Not here, but it's happening in the world currently.

[2263] Oh, yeah.

[2264] Yeah, because I could see where a lot of people would feel genuinely pretty fearless because we're so removed from most things.

[2265] Yeah.

[2266] It's hard to invade the U .S. You've got to send boats for a very long time to get here, and we would detect that.

[2267] So that's one of our advantages.

[2268] We don't really have any neighboring countries that are going to invade us.

[2269] But then when Pearl Harbor happens, you're like, no, it doesn't, you know, they'll still, they can do it.

[2270] We are so lucky.

[2271] To not be in a war zone?

[2272] Yeah.

[2273] Oh, my God, yeah.

[2274] People living, they're living in that every day.

[2275] A significant geographical area.

[2276] Like, there's, yeah, a good chunk of the globe is either bordering or currently engaged in.

[2277] Conflict.

[2278] Yeah.

[2279] I know.

[2280] Or the whole Red Sea.

[2281] The fact, the whole Red Sea is dangerous.

[2282] Yep.

[2283] I know.

[2284] Like, one of Lake Michigan was just overrun with pirates.

[2285] Yeah.

[2286] That's scary.

[2287] Okay, who invented the viral video?

[2288] Is it a Lonely Island?

[2289] Well, there's a lot credited to the viral video.

[2290] That's a notable early example in Dick in a Box.

[2291] And some people say Coney 2012 was the first video that went viral.

[2292] I would more credit that than I would Long Island.

[2293] Simply that Long Island had a launch pad that already had 4 million viewers.

[2294] Like, it came out on Saturday Night Live.

[2295] Right.

[2296] And then became viral.

[2297] But, like, Connie was just like, here, Internet.

[2298] Exactly.

[2299] I hope you spread this.

[2300] I think the story on the Island was that YouTube wasn't really a thing yet.

[2301] And it was one of the first YouTube videos that spread like that.

[2302] Oh, okay.

[2303] Interesting.

[2304] And if you type in who invented the viral video, what comes up is the first viral video of the Internet age was more successful than most people realize and single -handedly launched the careers of two small filmmakers, Matt Stone and Trey Parker.

[2305] Oh, South Park.

[2306] This says first viral video was created by South Park duo.

[2307] It's all happening sort of at once, so I think there's a lot of things that...

[2308] Yeah, the first 10 viral videos probably happen within the first two weeks of YouTube.

[2309] Like, it probably happened quite quickly.

[2310] Yeah.

[2311] Also, Justin Bieber, because, you know, Justin Bieber was discovered on YouTube.

[2312] Right.

[2313] Which is crazy.

[2314] As seen in the Beaver Dock that I love so much.

[2315] Yeah, got it.

[2316] I love that.

[2317] Never saw it.

[2318] Oh, it's so good.

[2319] John Chu.

[2320] Yeah.

[2321] Yeah.

[2322] And that's the day that you hit all those pigeons.

[2323] It is unfortunately one of the darker days of my life, yeah.

[2324] Yeah.

[2325] A real blemish on my track record.

[2326] When I get to the pearly gates, that'll be brought up.

[2327] You think so?

[2328] Yeah.

[2329] Yeah, I mean, there's, on nobody's listening, right, they were talking about how, you know, there's this idea that right before you die and you'd get the tape of your life.

[2330] It's not just what you felt.

[2331] It's what the other people felt.

[2332] Oh.

[2333] You feel their feelings too.

[2334] Oh, that's interesting.

[2335] So what do you think so far, knock on wood, knock on wood.

[2336] Okay.

[2337] Are making your highlight real.

[2338] Well, you don't like when I brag.

[2339] So this is really a - I'm giving you, I'm, this is exactly the time.

[2340] I'm giving you the opportunity.

[2341] But you do understand I'm saying, like, well, this is going to force me to brag.

[2342] But you understand the difference, right?

[2343] When you're just saying it is different than when you're being asked.

[2344] Yeah, I know.

[2345] I think it'll be gross.

[2346] Like I'll try a couple and I think it'll be gross.

[2347] Some of them can be bad things.

[2348] Oh, well, those are easier for me to do.

[2349] Do mix.

[2350] Okay, one I'm very proud of is Yerty, my sister's boyfriend of 20 plus years, who I love desperately, decided to start going to community college.

[2351] while he was at one of my favorite restaurants that has the meatloaf and the mashed Oh, R &D Kid.

[2352] Boston Market.

[2353] Got it.

[2354] And he applied and got into Cal State.

[2355] And he bought the sweatshirt.

[2356] Oh.

[2357] And I saw him in the sweatshirt and I was so happy for him.

[2358] Yeah.

[2359] And then some time went by and I said, when do you start?

[2360] And he said, you know, I really can't afford to go.

[2361] And by the way, this is a long time ago.

[2362] And I said, well, I'll pay.

[2363] I want you to go.

[2364] Yeah.

[2365] And he said, that's so generous, but I couldn't afford to take the time off work to go.

[2366] And I said, okay, we'll figure out how much lost time you'll have at work, how many shifts you'll lose, what that is.

[2367] And then I'll also pay that.

[2368] And you already went to college and he graduated.

[2369] That's very nice.

[2370] And he wears a great job.

[2371] Yeah.

[2372] He wears the sweatshirt.

[2373] And like that is awesome.

[2374] Yeah.

[2375] Yeah, that's great.

[2376] That's definitely making the highlight real.

[2377] Yeah, I love that.

[2378] Aaron climbing a telephone pole and diarying in seventh grade off of the telephone pole.

[2379] Like, that's very memorable.

[2380] Like that, yeah.

[2381] What are yours?

[2382] State championship?

[2383] Yeah, for sure.

[2384] Well, I don't know how long the tape plays because I think actually before winning would be me landing the back.

[2385] tuck for the first time.

[2386] I couldn't do it.

[2387] And I try, oh, my God.

[2388] I've never worked so hard at anything in my entire life.

[2389] Landing on my feet, I'll never forget.

[2390] I'll never forget it.

[2391] I bet you can still feel the sensation in your body of your feet planting.

[2392] I can.

[2393] It was like, it was, it was so profound for me. Yeah.

[2394] Because it's like, oh my God, you can do things that feel impossible.

[2395] Yeah.

[2396] If you work really, really fucking hard.

[2397] Well, in that vein, getting an acceptance letter from UCLA.

[2398] Yeah, that's huge.

[2399] Getting the phone call that I had gotten into the Sunday company.

[2400] Yep.

[2401] Endless things from the show.

[2402] That feels like too easy.

[2403] There's been so many things in it, so recent.

[2404] It is what actually matters to us, more than what we think we know matters to us.

[2405] Like, I think there will be surprises.

[2406] I'm totally remiss in saying the very most profound moment in my whole life is when they hand did Lincoln over to me and I'm like holding her exactly those are like givens right like she looks up at me yeah and the look in her eyes is like take care of me okay yeah you're the one you're the person do take care of me okay I'm gonna need a lot of help for a minute yeah she needs help she's a little baby going to wipe her own butt for a long long time Years.

[2407] Years.

[2408] Yeah.

[2409] I mean, yes, the babies, those things, merit.

[2410] Like, those things are obvious.

[2411] That's why I didn't mention them.

[2412] But then I'm thinking if you're listening, you're like, how on earth?

[2413] I think that the flagpole, it's more that.

[2414] It's like these random moments in your history that are small.

[2415] Like, they don't.

[2416] Sasha Crossett asking me to go with her when I was in sixth grade.

[2417] She said, will you go with me?

[2418] Yeah.

[2419] I got a note.

[2420] Oh, it was a note.

[2421] And did it say circle yes or no?

[2422] I don't remember that it had that, but maybe.

[2423] I'm only like two months into sixth grade and I get a letter from the most popular girl in the school.

[2424] When she approaches me, I'm like scared out of my mind.

[2425] And she hands me a note.

[2426] I'm like, oh my God, she's written me a note.

[2427] Am I supposed to give this to somebody?

[2428] And then I get in my classroom and I like, I sit down.

[2429] I got my book out and then I open this thing up and it says, well, you go with me?

[2430] Oh, my God.

[2431] Will you go with me?

[2432] What a phrase.

[2433] I couldn't compute it.

[2434] Okay, I wonder when it changed from will you go with me to will you go out with me?

[2435] Because my gen is go out.

[2436] Yeah, high school you say go out.

[2437] But in junior high it was go with, well, in elementary too.

[2438] They're going together.

[2439] Are you going with her?

[2440] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[2441] But it's funny because like the 60s.

[2442] They go together.

[2443] My therapist really, really has isolated that moment.

[2444] He knew immediately that moment was a very seminal moment in my life.

[2445] Because of semen?

[2446] No, I didn't have semen yet.

[2447] Seaminal moment.

[2448] Seminole moment.

[2449] And recognizes that, like, that was the first huge transcending of real life high.

[2450] And there it begins, kind of.

[2451] Like, your first drink.

[2452] Right.

[2453] It's like an addiction thing.

[2454] It's not even that because I think that feels dismissive as it's a pathology like addiction is.

[2455] Well, that's what you just made it a drink.

[2456] I was just going off what you were saying.

[2457] Because that's the only thing I can compare it to.

[2458] But he's not saying that that's an addiction.

[2459] It's just the first time you feel the power of something that that regulates you in a way that really nothing else can or has.

[2460] But the reason I am hesitant to call that an addiction or put that in the exact same category is like there is no need for alcohol consumption on planet Earth.

[2461] There is a need for love and connection.

[2462] There's a need for love and connection, but there's not a need for the high.

[2463] They're not mutually exclusive.

[2464] For some people, they are, and that can be addictive.

[2465] That's what SLA is all about.

[2466] Not everyone.

[2467] I think a lot of people that are with somebody felt that and are with that person, and they're not a love addict or a sex addict.

[2468] I'm just being very careful to delineate.

[2469] That wash of emotions and regulation doesn't mean addiction.

[2470] It can be then exploited to become one.

[2471] But don't you think the wash of emotion isn't indicative of an addiction, but the regulation is?

[2472] No, I think if you snort cocaine, it has a predictable outcome.

[2473] It's a real outcome.

[2474] It's measurable in the chemicals now in your brain.

[2475] Now, becoming addicted to that is you then doing that over and over again to regulate, to use it as a tool of regulation.

[2476] Yeah.

[2477] And then use it habitually and compulsively and against your better wishes.

[2478] Now, that's an addiction.

[2479] But the first thing, the feeling that cocaine gives you isn't addiction.

[2480] Right.

[2481] That's what I'm trying to say.

[2482] And the feeling, the wash of love and approval and being seen and being special, that's not addiction.

[2483] I can then develop that into an addiction.

[2484] But I wouldn't just say that those feelings are in and of themselves an addiction.

[2485] Yeah, I think I just said that.

[2486] The feeling, the emotion, that's not an addiction, but the regulation.

[2487] is when it transfers over.

[2488] Right, when you start using that pathologically or compulsively.

[2489] But, okay, we love Sasha for making you real.

[2490] Oh, man. What a moment.

[2491] I didn't think that was in my future.

[2492] Yeah.

[2493] When you're sitting in class and like the bell's about to ring, and you know the very next thing is you're meeting Sasha by the buses because she's going to get on her bus to go home and you're going to get on yours.

[2494] Yeah.

[2495] What a thrilling thing to look forward to.

[2496] Yeah.

[2497] Oh, it's so fun.

[2498] Yeah.

[2499] I didn't have that.

[2500] I wanted it.

[2501] Sorry, he didn't have it.

[2502] It was really fun.

[2503] Okay, so how many times have you been on Kimmel?

[2504] You have been on 26 times, according to your IMDB.

[2505] I think that's bigger than my even guessed while we were in the interview.

[2506] You said 20, yeah.

[2507] Yeah.

[2508] Yeah, usually I'm exaggerating.

[2509] No, yeah.

[2510] It's very rare that you come on and tell me it was, I was like.

[2511] It was even higher.

[2512] Let's see.

[2513] Ellen 21, which makes sense.

[2514] I thought Ellen would be our highest.

[2515] I wouldn't have just because I had been doing those other shows for so much longer before I started doing Ellen.

[2516] Yeah, but you guys run on a lot.

[2517] Mm -hmm.

[2518] That's the only one of those that I hosted when she was gone.

[2519] Right.

[2520] Hosted an episode.

[2521] Cresden did both.

[2522] She's done it all.

[2523] She hosted both those shows.

[2524] Yeah.

[2525] In my time, in my era.

[2526] Yeah.

[2527] I got to be there.

[2528] All right.

[2529] Well, I think we've done it.

[2530] Molly's lovely.

[2531] We love her so much.

[2532] It was really fun.

[2533] Often the show is in a compartment.

[2534] It's the job.

[2535] Mind you, the job is super fun.

[2536] I'm not saying that.

[2537] But sometimes it's actually a real shared life experience.

[2538] and this Molly episode felt much more like something we did as friends that I'll remember forever.

[2539] You just felt it was more like...

[2540] The experience feels like it gets filed into her nice personal life instead of into my professional life in some way.

[2541] Which is the way my mom was.

[2542] I see.

[2543] Or that Aaron.

[2544] You know, like there's something about this episode that felt very much like, something interpersonal.

[2545] I love that.

[2546] I liked it a lot, yeah.

[2547] All right.

[2548] Good night.

[2549] Good night.