S13 E5: [Natalia] Kinda Sorta Yeah

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences.

[11] Episodes discuss topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, suicide, and murder.

[12] If you're in need of support, please visit Something Was Wrong .com slash resources for a list of non -profit organizations that can help.

[13] I'm not a therapist or a doctor.

[14] Most names have been changed for anonymity purposes.

[15] Opinions expressed by guests on the show are their own and do not necessarily represent my views.

[16] Resources and source material are linked in the episode notes.

[17] Thank you so much for listening.

[18] I'm Natalia.

[19] I'm originally from the East Coast, but I am now living in Northern California.

[20] I am a queer black woman who is ultra -fem presenting, definitely bubbly and out there.

[21] I have tattoos which apparently don't match up with my personality type.

[22] I'm a definite mix of different cultures.

[23] I have lived a very long and traumatic.

[24] life for my very few years that I've been here.

[25] And I feel like my lessons I've learned throughout life had led me to make better choices.

[26] It's led me to becoming the person I am today.

[27] And while I don't like going through these experiences, I definitely believe that who I am today is someone who I would not change.

[28] So the story starts before the actual story starts.

[29] And the story starts for me, I've had really bad decisions and been in really bad places.

[30] And because of that, I have lived with abusive relationships far longer than I should have.

[31] But my grandparents were always the one who pulled me out.

[32] My grandparents were always the ones who made safe home for me. I always knew I could always go home to them.

[33] And I would do that whenever I needed help.

[34] And my grandfather was my biggest cheerleader.

[35] and my grandmother on my maternal side was just as strong and just as proud.

[36] The end of June, beginning of July of 2020, in the middle of the pandemic, life was pretty great for me, actually.

[37] It wasn't even that bad.

[38] I loved working from home.

[39] I was outside of my bathing suit.

[40] I was getting in the deepest hand.

[41] And at the same time, my grandmother was fighting cancer.

[42] And I had 12 hours to get to the East Coast.

[43] before she had passed away, I didn't make it, and it was probably the one most devastating parts of my life is the fact that I didn't make it home.

[44] I had dealt with a lot, and she had after I left my ex -Landon, she actually welcomed me into her home.

[45] I left Landon with whatever I could fit in my car, and I drove in the middle of the night.

[46] I showed up with a dog and some clothes, and no job and she opened her home and she made sure I was safe and she made sure I got a job and she took care of my dog when I was working.

[47] My grandfather was the one who gave me money when I needed it or when landed would kick me out.

[48] I would go to my grandfather's house because he lived 30 minutes away.

[49] So they were my strongest cheerleaders and after she died, my grandfather quickly got sick and so 90 days later, my grandfather also died.

[50] And then, And within two weeks, my aunt, who was like one of the women who raised me, like my grandmother's sister, she also passed away.

[51] So within a hundred days from July to October, I lost probably like the three strongest pillars of strength in my life.

[52] And I was at the lowest I had ever been.

[53] I ended up losing crazy amounts of weight because I stopped eating.

[54] I ended up losing.

[55] I ended up losing my job.

[56] And because of this, because I was just grieving so deeply and so hard.

[57] And so my depression was probably at the deepest it's ever been in my entire life because I felt completely empty.

[58] This is important to my story because I had been through hell and back with Landon.

[59] I had gone to therapy and had gone to a trauma counselor and I had done all of these things, but it didn't matter because when my life circumstance changed, it felt like I almost forgot all the lessons I had learned.

[60] And I was so desperate to be happy and so desperate to not be alone and feel so lonely that I forgot everything that my body had already taught me what not to do.

[61] And so that's why this is the first chapter for me. It's that, period of loss that lowered my defenses.

[62] And then I met Tyrone.

[63] I'm so, so sorry for your losses.

[64] I imagine that had to be just such an incredibly sad and heartbreaking time in your life.

[65] Did you have anybody in your life that you could lean on or were you really isolated at that time?

[66] At the same time that my grandmother was literally like the same day that my grandmother was dying.

[67] My landlord had actually asked me to move out of the house.

[68] So I was moving at the same time.

[69] So I was moving into a new location somewhere where I had more privacy, which I don't know if was a good and bad thing at the time, because I definitely feel like I isolated myself.

[70] I know that my friends, my really close friends were really worried about me, like very, very worried.

[71] My mom was really worried about me. She said the way that I described.

[72] how I felt after my grandmother died was the same way she felt after my dad had passed away when she was like 29.

[73] And the way I described it, it just made her so nervous for me. I had the circle of people who were waiting in the wings who would order me food and have it delivered to my home, but I wouldn't eat it.

[74] I had people with the same time, you can only try to force someone to talk to you for so long and so hard and so much before you have to recognize they just need space to be.

[75] I ended up taking off sometime because my mental health was just really, really bad and devastated.

[76] Around the same time that I had to move that my grandmother had passed away, I had been dating Monique and Monique and I had been dating for a while and we decided that we needed to take a break.

[77] So it was a like perfect storm of just loneliness.

[78] But Monique and I are still really good friends to this day.

[79] We talk all the time.

[80] We ended up dating again after this whole Tyrone issue.

[81] But Monique is someone who even during this whole Tyrone issue was the rock in my life.

[82] And she was one of the people who would come in and make sure I left the house or make sure that I was She was there for this whole story, and she definitely lifted me up and held me when, like, it got really crazy and rocky.

[83] She is definitely someone who was important to this story as well.

[84] So during this period of loneliness, being in a pandemic where you really can't leave the house, there's no bars, there's no going out with my friends to distract me. There's nothing but being isolated in my apartment with my roommate.

[85] and mainly my room and my bed because I was just so sad I started downloading dating apps the Tinders and all of those different apps but I found this one that was specific to queer people which I was really a huge fan of it was almost like this little community and they had like little chat rooms and it felt a little bit different it was something to distract me from how sad life was I didn't expect to meet anyone but I enjoyed swiping left and right and starting conversations and not really going anywhere with them.

[86] And then this face popped up, and it was Tyrone, and I thought he was cute.

[87] His profile did not use he -him pronouns, so at the time I met him under a different name, and we were exchanging and talking and going back and forth.

[88] it was really nice.

[89] It was really easy to talk to him.

[90] He thought I was a catfish.

[91] I thought he was a catfish.

[92] So I was like, let's FaceTime and he didn't expect any of this.

[93] We FaceTimed and that first night we talked for maybe like 30 minutes to an hour.

[94] But the conversation just flowed and it was so easy to talk to.

[95] And it was so great to talk to someone who didn't know anything about me, who didn't know my history, who didn't know how sad I was, who couldn't talk to.

[96] tell you how much weight I lost, had no idea.

[97] Six months ago, my hair was really, really long, but because of all of this, I had shaved it off in my bathroom pandemic style.

[98] He didn't know anything about this, about me, and it felt so great to be someone who wasn't so sad all the time.

[99] And so we went from texting on this dating app to, like, FaceTiming regularly pretty quickly.

[100] It felt super comfortable.

[101] I found out later that even though I put the search to Northern California around where I live, he actually had changed his location and he was living in Southern California.

[102] It had to be an event to go meet him.

[103] So FaceTiming worked and texting worked.

[104] We would end up pretty quickly being on the phone all night and falling asleep, talking to each other.

[105] and then I would wake up in the morning and he would still be there.

[106] His FaceTime would still be live or the phone would still be there and we had like literally slept the night next to each other.

[107] It was comfortable.

[108] My friends saw the change in my disposition.

[109] I was happy.

[110] I felt good.

[111] I felt productive at work again because life wasn't so sad.

[112] It wasn't so gray.

[113] It wasn't so lonely anymore.

[114] I was walking my dog and we were on the phone and at this time I still knew him with she her pronouns and I still knew him by his dead name and I said something that was like, hey girl and he thought I referred to him and just completely blew up.

[115] I have many trans friends.

[116] I am very active in my local queer community.

[117] I am friends with people all over the country, all over the world in all different types of spectrums.

[118] And so I've dated people in different spectrums.

[119] Sometimes you can tell that someone's not comfortable with something and you can kind of lean away from it.

[120] But I never really got the chance with him.

[121] Immediately it was this big blowup.

[122] I felt so horrible that I had touched the nerve that I had no idea that I was touching.

[123] And it wasn't even in that specific gendered way, but it was the way I said it.

[124] I know from my friends how hurtful things like this could be, so I immediately felt apologetic.

[125] I was immediately sorry.

[126] Then we started talking and I realized that he had no friends in the queer community.

[127] I think that was part of his way of blending in and seeming quote unquote normal.

[128] He did his best to blend.

[129] And that's what he needed to do to survive within his industry.

[130] And I respected it.

[131] And I said, hey, if you have questions, I can answer as best as I can if you need some guidance in this.

[132] But also, I have people in your location who have been going through the same situation and who have been going through the surgeries and the medications and hormones and, you know, different body image things.

[133] And I could get you a community if you want.

[134] let me connect you to my friends.

[135] He was so into that idea.

[136] And I think this is probably the first time in his life that someone accepted him for who he was at his word without trying to talk about it, without trying to explain it, especially in something that I found out eventually that he didn't even understand himself.

[137] He had very little understanding about what was going through his own body or the proper words in terminology.

[138] I would be like, oh, no, no, no, you can say whatever, but let me just explain the definition of what you're saying, so you know what you're saying, and you don't offend somebody else.

[139] Refer to yourself in a way that you might not want to be referred to as.

[140] I reached out to my people where he lived, and I connected him to some of the people I called my closest friends and people that could get him in touch with the community.

[141] My friends were getting in contact with him, Everybody had nothing but great things to say about their interactions with him.

[142] It's not something I do often.

[143] I'm good at compartmentalizing, but this is one of the first times that I started to shake the waters a little bit and have myself be in a place of uncomfortability about melding world.

[144] He was really interested in finding out about top surgery, and I got him in touch with a friend who had just had top surgery weeks prior and finding doctors and talking about insurance, he felt comfortable with me to talk about these situations and I felt really great about that.

[145] I felt like I could be like a long -term help and it got deeper and deeper from there.

[146] Things moved really, really fast where within a few weeks, I'm flying down to SoCal to meet him for the first time.

[147] The first time I met him was at the airport when he picked me up from baggage clean and I was so nervous.

[148] Everything was nerve -wracking, but the minute I met him, I felt comfortable and I got in the front seat of his car and I was like, hey, how are you?

[149] And he was like, hey, nice to meet you.

[150] There are a couple of red flags looking back that I should have hopped on a plane and went back home immediately.

[151] But for the most part, that was probably one of the most romantic weekends of my entire life.

[152] It was such a weekend that was so good for my well -being, my mental health.

[153] I came back so energized and great.

[154] I flew down there on a Friday evening after work.

[155] We went to Target.

[156] I had forgotten my cell phone charger, but it was right by the hotel that we were staying at downtown.

[157] There's this really long line.

[158] It's the pandemic.

[159] People aren't wearing masks.

[160] This is before the vaccination.

[161] This is when people are like stay inside.

[162] Don't go to the store if you had to.

[163] I had not left my house in weeks at this point.

[164] So this is like really outside of my comfort zone.

[165] I was like, let's just go through the self -checkout line.

[166] It's way faster.

[167] It's way easier.

[168] And we don't have to be in the store.

[169] Let's hurry up and get out of here.

[170] I want to go.

[171] And he said to me, I don't work for Target, so I'm not going to check myself out.

[172] And I thought that was the oddest thing to force yourself to stand in a 20 -minute line because you don't get paid by Target to check yourself out of line.

[173] But people have political beliefs about self -checkout, so I wasn't going to push.

[174] I met him like an hour ago, and I was about to spend the next 72 hours with him.

[175] And then we get to the checkout person and I have my little cell phone charger and he's like, oh, don't worry, I got it.

[176] I'll pay for it.

[177] Something I found really interesting is that he assumed that I made less money than he did.

[178] I let him believe that because it's none of his business, but he assumed I couldn't pay for anything.

[179] And so if he offered to pay, I'm like, I can take it, but if you want to, don't let me stop you.

[180] It felt like a show for him.

[181] It was like a show of a flash for him, which is something that might impress other people.

[182] Other people might feel really great about it, but I don't need you to pay for my stuff.

[183] I got it.

[184] But, I mean, if it makes you happy, I'm not going to stop you.

[185] We get up to the check counter, and he's, like, paying for everything.

[186] And he turns to me and he said, can you do me a fever and keep track of how much I'm spending?

[187] And I looked at him crazy, and I said, I'm not your bookkeeper.

[188] I'm not your accountant, and I'm definitely not your secretary.

[189] So no. It felt like at the time, and I still believe today, is that he would.

[190] wanted me to remember how much he spent on me, he would keep track of basically how much I owed him and how much he was due back in return.

[191] That's not how I live my life normally.

[192] When I go out to dinner with my friends, it's like, you know, there's six of us.

[193] If I had a salad, we'll just divide it by six.

[194] Like, it'll come out in the wash anyways, especially if you're in some type of relationship.

[195] I thought it was odd and assumed that he was nervous so we'd kept it pushing.

[196] We'd get back to the hotel, and it's this really nice hotel that he booked.

[197] It's in downtown L .A. and it's beautiful.

[198] It's a boutique hotel.

[199] I missed the warm weather because, you know, up in Northern Cal, it is way colder than L .A. He drove me down to San Diego just to go to lunch.

[200] It was to go to this one restaurant that he had been talking about, and he's like, I have to take you there, you would love it.

[201] We get down to this restaurant, and we're wearing cute outfits, and he's telling me how beautiful I look.

[202] I feel so amazing, and I haven't felt amazing in so long that it feels good to feel good.

[203] We go to this really great black -owned restaurant, and he's like, what do you want?

[204] And I'm not hungry because I haven't eaten in weeks.

[205] I haven't really eaten honestly in months at this point.

[206] I don't do full meals.

[207] I can pick and, like, eat something.

[208] somewhere, but I'm not eating because life is crappy and I am sad.

[209] Nothing tastes good to me because I know my grandmother could make it better.

[210] So I couldn't decide.

[211] And he's like, you know what?

[212] Let's just get one of everything.

[213] And it's not a taco spot where like $3 tacos or $5 tacos, we're talking like $25 to $50 a plate year.

[214] And he's ordering like one of every, one of all the appetizers, three meals that we were talking about, a couple of desserts, some sides for two of us and this could have fed like a whole family.

[215] It's so much food and it's so heavy and it's so rich and we're staying in a hotel room.

[216] We have no place to store.

[217] We're not going to heat it up again.

[218] It felt very wasteful to me. This is not how I was raised.

[219] I grew up in a working class family.

[220] You didn't throw out food.

[221] Everything was recycled.

[222] There were so many of us.

[223] All of my cousins were always around.

[224] My grandparents, my mother, their immigrants.

[225] They came from a country that people would consider a third world, but is so rich in history.

[226] You didn't have food like that.

[227] They came here for a better life, so you don't throw things out because you don't know when you're going to get fed again.

[228] That's the world that I lived in.

[229] And that's the world that I was raised in.

[230] I shut my lights, not because I care about saving electricity, but because my grandfather didn't want to waste of this food, but he was insistent that it would make me and him happy.

[231] We ordered all this food and it's so expensive and not even finished anything of it, even the things that he wanted the most or something that I had a bite of.

[232] He'd be like, that's fine.

[233] As long as you ate it and you were happy and I was like, wow, you really just care about me eating.

[234] You are so focused in making sure that I am taking care of myself when I don't feel like I can even take care of myself.

[235] It felt so great.

[236] we're having this really great time and we're sitting up having these long conversations eating leftovers from all these different restaurants or we're ordering in tacos or we're going to this local taco spot or we're walking to this fancy steak restaurant and he's like whatever you want let's get two of those he's calling a lift for a six minute walk because I don't want you to scuff up your sneakers because he's a huge sneaker head and I had really nice brand new Jordan's on.

[237] And he's like, no, no, no, I don't want you to walk, which is way more money that you even need to spend on something that's six minutes away.

[238] But again, it was that flash.

[239] This is how people determine that they're cared for.

[240] And it doesn't work for me. I didn't care about the money.

[241] I cared about how I felt.

[242] I went with it.

[243] And it felt great.

[244] It was a really good weekend.

[245] At the same time, it really wasn't.

[246] It was something that I should have left and never returned back to because there were red flags.

[247] Him telling me what to wear, but I thought he was telling me because I wasn't matching the aesthetic of the place that we're going to.

[248] I was too overdressed or not dressed up enough.

[249] I went with it, but he was making sure I had makeup on.

[250] I remember being in the shower and looking over and he's looking through the crack of the door and he has his phone up.

[251] The hair on my back of my neck kind of stood, but it was a few red flags, but not enough to like put my finger on.

[252] The last day I was there, we ordered in brunch, a $150 worth of food for two people, for breakfast.

[253] We're eating in the hotel room.

[254] We're talking about life and past relationships.

[255] I don't know what he said that made me pause and ask this question, but I remember something intuitively said, you need to ask.

[256] This is a question I've never asked anybody, honestly, before.

[257] I said, does anyone have a frustrating order against you?

[258] And he chuckled and laughed.

[259] And he's like, well, kind of sort of, yeah.

[260] I'm Dan Tibersky.

[261] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[262] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[263] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[264] She's like, I can't.

[265] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[266] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[267] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[268] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[269] Well, you were holding something back.

[270] Intentionally.

[271] Yeah, well, yeah.

[272] No, it's hysteria.

[273] It's all in your head.

[274] It's not physical.

[275] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[276] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the Witches of Salem?

[277] Or is it something else entirely?

[278] Something's wrong here.

[279] Something's not right.

[280] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[281] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios.

[282] Hysterical.

[283] Follow hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[284] You can binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

[285] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[286] She had been under the influence that she left him there.

[287] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[288] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's en route to the next location.

[289] What happens next?

[290] Depends on who you ask.

[291] Was it a crime of passion?

[292] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[293] This was clearly an intentional act.

[294] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[295] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[296] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[297] Everyone had an opinion.

[298] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[299] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[300] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[301] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus.

[302] Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[303] I was like, what do you mean, kind disorder?

[304] like how does that work?

[305] Explain this to me. He started explaining the story to me of how he and this girl had lived with each other.

[306] She lived in Northern Cal actually, which is really funny not far from me where I lived at the time when he knew me. He was going back and forth.

[307] That the flight attendants knew who he was because he was doing regular commuter trips from SoCal to NorCal and coming home on the weekends to stay with her and then flying on Mondays to go to work.

[308] She had been a leasing agent for an apartment building complex, and there's this little known clause in your lease that if you feel unsafe or if you had to get a restraining order against someone either within the building or in your apartment itself, a partner, or a spouse, roommate, whatever the situation is, that if you had to get a restraining order, that it gives you the option to break lease without a penalty.

[309] And so he said that she had filed the restraining order to be able to break the lease and find a new apartment someplace else.

[310] That struck me as so odd, because I feel like there's so many other things that you could have done, situations that you could have come up with, especially if that's your job as a leasing agent, to come up with another loophole.

[311] But I was letting him tell me the story.

[312] So while she had the restraining order against him, they were dating back and forth.

[313] And then they had some random fight that she supposedly started.

[314] And he went out and took the trash.

[315] And when he went out and took the trash, she had called the police and locked the door behind him.

[316] And because of the restraining order, he had got arrested.

[317] And it was this really convoluting.

[318] polluted story and it was really weird and the way he described it didn't make sense to me. I've been through an abusive relationship and it sounded really toxic at minimum.

[319] We're going back and forth and we're talking about this toxic relationship that he was in.

[320] I start bringing up my toxic relationship with Landon, things that I had to do to survive when I left him.

[321] I turned to Tyrone and I was really clear.

[322] I said, damn, I'm letting you know right now.

[323] This is the thing I had to do to survive.

[324] This will not be the type of relationship I go into again.

[325] And he was like, I would never.

[326] I have my brother.

[327] I talked to him about the way that he talks to my mother.

[328] I talk to him and by the way he talks to my sisters.

[329] I see how men treat women.

[330] And I do not want any woman to feel disrespected.

[331] And I was like, all right, well, maybe we're young and we're dumb and we do stupid things and we get in stupid toxic relationships.

[332] And maybe it was just like a bad period in his life.

[333] I'm probably not getting the full story because literally we just met.

[334] But at the same time, this is something I need to pay attention to.

[335] I'm thinking this in my head and he turns to me after I explained to him about how I'm not going to do this again.

[336] And he says to me, now, just so you know, my ID still has the female gender marker.

[337] So if something were to happen, the cops just think it's two girls fighting.

[338] When he said that to me, I was completely freaked out.

[339] And I knew in my heart of heart that if I told anyone, they would tell me to run.

[340] but it felt so good to be in that situation and to feel so seen and to feel so cared for that I didn't tell anyone.

[341] I didn't forget it, but I didn't tell anyone.

[342] I think not telling anyone that particular comment is the turning point for me. Looking back now, that's the moment that I know I should have walked away and never came back.

[343] I wanted to feel great.

[344] So I stayed.

[345] I said, okay.

[346] And I went into people pleaser mode, ignoring it.

[347] I'm going to be different.

[348] I'm not like her.

[349] I don't know why because I had lived this life before.

[350] I have already done this before, but I had forgotten who I was.

[351] In that same weekend, he had this woman who was his best friend and she was calling all the time and they were FaceTiming and she was saying, hi, but it gets we get weirder later.

[352] So we go to the airport and we have this dramatic goodbye where we're driving to the airport in this rental car and he's like holding my hand.

[353] He's crying and I'm crying and when am I going to see you again?

[354] And like tomorrow is already too long.

[355] This like rom -com moment And we're crying and I kiss him goodbye in the car and I roll my carry on into the airport and I'm sobbing as I'm going up the escalator.

[356] Then I look over and he is standing outside the car and he's crying and he's like watching me go until he can't see me anymore.

[357] And the woman behind me starts crying because she's like, oh my God, this is the most romantic thing I've ever seen.

[358] and her husband's completely mortified.

[359] But it was like a movie.

[360] The entire weekend was like a movie.

[361] I get past security and we're on the phone again and we're talking until the flight takes off.

[362] I land up by my house and I'm calling my friends.

[363] Everyone wants to know, so how was it?

[364] We hear from you all weekend.

[365] Monique calls me and we're being really good friends.

[366] Like friendly platonic life partner type of situation.

[367] She's like, so how was it?

[368] And I was like, it was really good.

[369] And I started telling her about everything that's going on.

[370] And she's like, so like the sex.

[371] Like, how was the sex?

[372] And I was like, actually, that was the weird part.

[373] Like, we didn't have sex that much.

[374] She's like, the way that you guys were talking, the energy that was over the phone.

[375] Like, I fully expected to be this crazy, like intimate weekend.

[376] We didn't do that.

[377] He spent the whole weekend making sure I was fed and making sure I was cared for.

[378] making sure that all this other stuff was happening.

[379] I also chalked it up to maybe he's just not comfortable.

[380] Maybe this is his body dysmorphia that he's not comfortable taking off his clothes or he's not comfortable at being intimate and that's just not where he is.

[381] I can work with somebody like that.

[382] We can come up with things that work for him where he feels comfortable, where I feel comfortable.

[383] I'm not going to push you to do something that you don't feel comfortable with.

[384] I have always been in polyamorous relationships, but I understand that's not for everybody.

[385] So I was really clear about who I am and what I do and who I do it with.

[386] He was not on that page in the beginning, and we would have hour -long conversations about feelings.

[387] He was like, I would feel really more comfortable if you weren't dating anybody else at the time.

[388] And I was like, all right, cool, that works for me. We can reassess later.

[389] Is that work for you?

[390] He's like, great, that works for me too.

[391] Then as time progressed, all of a sudden things started changing, but they were changing without him telling me. So that woman who he was talking to who I thought he was his best friend and that he had known for a while, all of a sudden I stopped hearing about her.

[392] And then he was telling me that he was going out with his friends.

[393] And I'm like, go, have fun, enjoy.

[394] I'll talk to you later.

[395] And then it became within days of that, he also was like, you know what, let's not be exclusive.

[396] And I was like, I'm also comfortable with that too.

[397] I wasn't trying to pin myself down, but this is where the story starts to get a very like a little lifetimey for me. We're having these really deep conversations about commitment, but at the same time, we're also having these conversations about us and what that looks like.

[398] We're daydreaming long -term plans.

[399] We're discussing renting a house for like a couple months because we're both working from home.

[400] He's like, let's work together.

[401] Let's like be together.

[402] I'm like, yeah, that would be great.

[403] I could work from home anywhere.

[404] Everyone else is doing it.

[405] Everyone's buying RVs.

[406] Let's do something crazy.

[407] He's looking into different type of rentals and different coastal cities.

[408] I'm talking to my boss to see what that would look like.

[409] At the same time, he's trying to pick an insurance that would work well with getting top surgery.

[410] We're looking at all of his different plans together.

[411] It's really expensive to have this type of surgery.

[412] So we were trying to find the best insurance plan that would cover the most amount of medical stuff for him.

[413] He was also going to need someone to take care of him.

[414] He didn't have friends who understood his transness.

[415] He didn't have family that understood his transness.

[416] He didn't even understand his transness and his gender identity and his exploration.

[417] He didn't have a support system.

[418] to support his transition.

[419] And I know from my friends I've witnessed, I see how the community supports each other.

[420] I've seen groups of friends form healing support systems where people are bringing meals, people are coming over and doing chores, people are helping take people to doctor's appointments, all of these different things.

[421] And I could not, as a queer person, watch someone who is trans go through this alone.

[422] as a human being that's just so hard to witness.

[423] I made myself available.

[424] I said, how can I help you?

[425] We started talking about insurances, and it really came down to the insurance that I had at the time was actually the best plan for people who were trans who want to get some type of surgery, because my plan covered the most with the least amount of deductible.

[426] And then he starts floating the idea maybe we should live together up where I live and see maybe he can get surgery up here.

[427] Maybe he can get a better deal up in Northern California because they seem to have a larger network.

[428] I was like, you're not going to be on my insurance because there's nothing connecting you to me. You living with me doesn't mean anything to the insurance companies.

[429] They don't care.

[430] And so we start talking about, hey, I think this is going to be long term.

[431] and he's like, I think this is going to be long term too.

[432] So let's start talking about getting married and going to like the local court, getting eloped and having no one know about it, being our little secret, and you could get covered under insurance to get your surgery.

[433] And then we can be married from afar and do this untraditional lifestyle for a little bit until we can come together and do this long term thing.

[434] And so we start talking like, all right, well, if we're going to do this, we have to have these big conversations.

[435] So we're talking about children.

[436] We're talking about how we see our life.

[437] We're talking about the big things that you need to talk about in order to combine lives and be comfortable.

[438] We're looking at engagement rings, which is insane because after Landon said, I will never be legally tied to anyone in the world ever again.

[439] And now he's sitting there explaining to this guy what my favorite ring would look like.

[440] My friends are so happy for me because they are like she is making these wildly in love life choices.

[441] You hear them all the time.

[442] I met them on the first date and I just knew that they were the one.

[443] I was like, I can do this.

[444] I can be this person for this person because this is who I am.

[445] This is what I do.

[446] I love with everything that I have.

[447] So we're having these really heavy discussions and I only met him one time.

[448] We're FaceTiming.

[449] We're having all of these really heavy life conversations.

[450] conversations and we're agreeing and we're on the same page.

[451] We're talking about adoption instead of me giving birth because giving birth in a hospital scares me so much.

[452] And we're talking about adoption instead and he was a foster kid.

[453] So that was super important to him.

[454] If I'm going to have a child, I want to be a stay -at -home mom.

[455] And he was like, I totally understand.

[456] I'm on the same page with you.

[457] What can we do to make it happen?

[458] This is what the five -year plan needs to be for me because in five years I'll be at this salarine and then you can do X, Y, and Z. These are the conversations that we were having.

[459] And then we're also having red flags go off at the same time.

[460] It's like you took the dog for the walk.

[461] And usually you call me when you take your dog for a walk, but you didn't call me this time.

[462] It's okay this time, but don't forget next time.

[463] I was worried about you because you didn't call me all day today.

[464] And I'm really busy with work.

[465] I'm focused and I'm in meetings and you didn't check in with me today.

[466] Did you eat today?

[467] I already ate, but what did you eat?

[468] I'm like, I'm grown.

[469] I lived a whole life before you got here.

[470] And you're checking up on me and wheeves in the beginning felt caring, but now feel a little bit more oppressive.

[471] These aren't at the time loud enough red flags enough for me to stop anything, but they're loud enough for me to pay attention to and just file in the back of the Tyrone file of like pros and cons, things that we need to work on.

[472] But we're getting to know each other.

[473] And so I'm going to give him a pass on this.

[474] I'm going to give him a pass on that.

[475] As he understands me better, he'll understand that he can't talk to me this certain way.

[476] Or he'll understand that I don't like it when he says this.

[477] Or he'll understand how my routine is and that sometime I just need the alone time.

[478] I gave him way more excuses than I should have.

[479] But again, it just felt so good to be cared for and for someone to check up on me, Monique was giving me space.

[480] I was seeing her maybe like once week and we're not like dating or doing anything but to hang out and to go to the beach because again, this is November 2020.

[481] All of California at that point was basically shut down.

[482] You couldn't go inside of restaurants at this point.

[483] There was nothing to do.

[484] There was no place to go.

[485] And so this escape with him felt great and she would help me escape in real life and she knew my drama and she knew the heavy stuff she came over and hung out with me it was a really tender moment because I was feeling particularly sad about everything and she laid him a bed with me and it was no big deal she wasn't under the covers but she's holding me in her arms while I'm crying and I remember telling him and he lost it and he told me I needed to wash my sheets immediately and I was like first of all sir you don't need to question my housekeeping habits I'm quite clean thank you I wash my sheets often I clean my house often like I don't need you to tell me to wash my sheets but apparently the reason why he was so adamant about this was because he bought a plane ticket and he was flying up to surprise me on Thanksgiving day.

[486] He had decided that he was going to do Thanksgiving with his family in the morning.

[487] And then in the afternoon, he was going to hop on a flight, come up to see me for a few days, and then fly back home.

[488] He was going to be there for the long weekend.

[489] My roommate wasn't home at the time.

[490] And I was late, this is really great.

[491] I have company.

[492] I can't wait to see him.

[493] I'm so excited to see him.

[494] this is just another reinforcement that this is such a good idea for me. I went over to Monique's house.

[495] We grilled with some friends.

[496] I grabbed leftovers for him.

[497] So I grabbed a bunch of things.

[498] I put it together.

[499] I am a really good cook.

[500] I'm a really good cook.

[501] I'm not going to like be humble about it at all.

[502] I'm a really good cook.

[503] My friends love my food.

[504] At one point, I was flirting, opening a catering company.

[505] My grandmother taught me really well.

[506] So it's something I take a lot of pride in.

[507] And if I'm giving you food that my friends made, it's probably really good too because I'm really particular about food that I eat.

[508] I'm my grandmother's granddaughter.

[509] So I grabbed some food and I left this barbecue fire pit, hang out, drinking wine situation.

[510] I came home and I'm waiting for him and he shows up and I'm so excited to see him.

[511] I'm so excited to see him.

[512] I have not seen him forever and we're only like chit -chatting.

[513] I was like, listen, I have this food that I ate for you.

[514] I hope you like it.

[515] He eats it and he starts choking.

[516] And I'm thinking I'm going to have to give the hymlich.

[517] I can give CPR.

[518] I'm that girl.

[519] But I don't understand why you're choking.

[520] And it turns out he said there was too much pepper in whatever I made.

[521] Now, everybody else at the party loved it.

[522] They thought it was amazing.

[523] They said it tasted great.

[524] The flavor was wonderful.

[525] I felt so great about what I mean.

[526] Then he ate it and he is like, it's too spicy, it's too this, it's to that.

[527] Everything that everyone made on that plate was too much for him.

[528] It was too much for his palate.

[529] Again, people are different.

[530] There are people who are supertasters.

[531] So I'm trying to give you all the benefit of the doubt, but it really made me feel a certain type of way and how he approached the situation.

[532] and it made me feel bad about the food that I made with love and tenderness and care.

[533] He opens the suitcase and he whips out this whole Thanksgiving meal that his mother had made for him.

[534] He offers it to me, not a stitch of salt on it, not a stitch of pepper.

[535] It was the most bland food I had ever seen.

[536] Gordon Ramsey wouldn't like it.

[537] He would have thrown it out, he'd broke a plate, it would have been done with.

[538] He's eating it and he's enjoying it.

[539] So who am I to judge?

[540] Enjoy your food.

[541] That's how the whole weekend started.

[542] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[543] I'm Sachi Cole.

[544] And I'm Sarah Haggy.

[545] And we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once the facade falls away.

[546] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King, and no real product to push.

[547] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

[548] To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Judice, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[549] Follow Scamfluencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[550] You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad -free right now.

[551] on One Tree Plus.

[552] On Black Friday, Monique had invited us over to Grill and to be by the fire pit.

[553] She had all these leftovers and she wanted to meet him.

[554] And she's a really important person of my life.

[555] Even if we're not dating, she's still going to be someone who's always going to be a close person to me. He understood this.

[556] He was like, yeah, let's go.

[557] He went and got her her favorite bottle of liquor.

[558] We're getting ready to go over.

[559] and it's my ex's house.

[560] I've slept there.

[561] I've taken showers.

[562] We've dated for like a really long time.

[563] She's seen me without makeup.

[564] Anyone in that house has seen me without makeup.

[565] They've seen me in my pajamas.

[566] They probably have seen me in less than that, hanging out on the couch, watching TV.

[567] That space was a second home to me. It wasn't any type of place that I had to put any airs on.

[568] I throw on a pair of leggings.

[569] like a sweatshirt because it's chilly.

[570] We're going to be outside at the fire pit.

[571] And he actually stopped me, wouldn't call the car, and told me that I needed to go put makeup on.

[572] I was really surprised by that because I had heard him tell me that I was beautiful without makeup.

[573] I have had other people tell me I was beautiful without makeup.

[574] So I really didn't understand this need.

[575] And I actually push back a little bit.

[576] It was like, I mean, I guess if you want me to, but he was like, no, no, this is really important to me. I want to show up a certain way.

[577] I couldn't give him an excuse of him being nervous because you show up a certain way.

[578] That has nothing to do with me. I did it, though, because it was easier to not argue about it than it was for me to be a people pleaser, to make it go way to soothe the angry beast.

[579] I just did it.

[580] I put it on and we take a lift over there because we're going to be drinking.

[581] And the first thing that happens when I walk into the house is everyone's like, why are you wearing makeup?

[582] They expect to see me in pajamas, which is what they were wearing like sweatpants and sweatshirts and leggings, comfy clothes and slippers.

[583] It was this really awkward start.

[584] I think Monique got really nervous and she was drinking a little bit more than she normally does.

[585] Monique was really too drunk.

[586] I've never seen her this drunk, to be honest.

[587] I've seen her drinking, but I've never seen her this drunk.

[588] He started to feel uncomfortable.

[589] I was feeling like this is getting too much.

[590] Let's just leave.

[591] If we leave the situation, it'll resolve itself.

[592] We get back to my house.

[593] I am from a family that was conserved energy, not because we care about the world, but because the bill was too high.

[594] I grew up Like you don't touch the thermostat.

[595] Thermostat is set.

[596] I'm from the East Coast.

[597] Winter goes all for a good nine months.

[598] I know how to set the temperature so I can budget accordingly for the months.

[599] And my temperature wasn't set the eye.

[600] But if you threw on a sweater and a blanket, you would be just fine.

[601] He got into my house and he was beyond upset at the temperature of my apartment.

[602] He was beyond upset.

[603] He's sitting there shivering.

[604] Like he's in the North Pole.

[605] Like he's never been in Northern California in his life.

[606] When I know that his ex used to live down the street, I pay for the heat.

[607] I don't like to give PG &E my money.

[608] And so I keep the temperature where I need it to be.

[609] He's pretending that he's so cold and he's like, can't focus.

[610] I'm like, we'll put on a sweatshirt.

[611] And that's when I realized that he didn't pack any clothes.

[612] He packed a couple of pairs of basketball shorts, a couple of t -shirts, one pair of jeans and a jacket and one nice shirt.

[613] That's not enough for a weekend in Northern California in November, going into December.

[614] That's not warm enough.

[615] We're not going anywhere in that type of outfit.

[616] I was like, you know what?

[617] Let me do this.

[618] I go, I grab my bedding, and I throw it in the dryer.

[619] I put it on high, and he's sitting there shivering still like a leaf.

[620] I'm making hot tea.

[621] I'm making hot cocoa.

[622] And he was like, I need you to make me a sandwich.

[623] When he showed up, I made him this turkey sandwich, and it was just like this basic sandwich that my aunt used to make almost like a press sandwich.

[624] And that was the only thing that he would eat for the rest of the weekend.

[625] Anytime I made any type of food for him, any type of meal, he always wanted this sandwich.

[626] It's like midnight.

[627] I'm making this sandwich for him.

[628] I have the blanket.

[629] I don't understand how much more cared for he could have felt.

[630] He walks over to my temperature gauge, turns the temperature on all the way up, and says, I will pay for the heat.

[631] Okay, whatever, call me cheap, I don't care.

[632] He turns the heat up and he's sitting there, faux, shaking, or whatever.

[633] I'm telling him to put pajamas on.

[634] I take the blanket out of the dryer.

[635] I put it on the bed.

[636] I said, come on, hurry, hurry up, hurry up, hurry up.

[637] And he explodes.

[638] He explodes and he starts to tell me how dare I speak to him this way.

[639] He's a guest in my house and I'm not taking care of guests in a proper way.

[640] because if I was taking care of guests in a proper way, then the heat would be on.

[641] And how dare I yell at him to hurry up and to get into bed?

[642] And I'm like, I am so sorry.

[643] Maybe I didn't realize my tone.

[644] Maybe it had an attitude to it.

[645] Maybe he's tired because it's so late.

[646] Maybe it was just a really long night.

[647] I don't know.

[648] But I am so sorry.

[649] I am so sorry.

[650] And I'm apologizing.

[651] I'm apologizing.

[652] It starts this argument and it just keeps going.

[653] I'm trying to calm him down.

[654] I'm trying to do everything.

[655] I'm doing whatever I need to.

[656] And he gets into bed.

[657] and he's a huffy and he's upset.

[658] He's just angry and there's just nothing I can do.

[659] It felt like this was a person that I hadn't met before.

[660] This is not the same person who was in SoCal with me because I've never seen this level of anger for no reason.

[661] He ends up calming down.

[662] It really upsets me that I'm able to do this or that I have this in my arsenal sometimes.

[663] But I'm used to being in abusive situations where being the girliest girl, the sex pot, and being the sex kitten who will soothe the ruffled feathers.

[664] So I attempt to be intimate with him.

[665] We start having sex.

[666] And originally when I was in L .A. with him, he had asked me if I would feel comfortable if we recorded us having sex.

[667] and I was really adamant, no, I am not comfortable with this.

[668] This is not something that works for me. I don't want anything of me on your phone.

[669] We know each other, but we don't know each other.

[670] I don't know your intentions.

[671] You can do anything with this.

[672] Revenge born is a thing.

[673] And frankly, honestly, I don't like the way I look on screen naked when I can't control the angle.

[674] It's pure vanity for me, but the ultimate answer is no. so we're sitting there in now in my bedroom and we're getting intimate and we're having sex I noticed something that didn't read to me as like a red flag until later he kept messing with his phone and he kept touching my pillows and putting his hand between my pillows it didn't make sense to me we kept doing what we're doing and then we moved on he was calm for the night and he was fine for the night.

[675] That same weekend, he was complaining that his back was hurting, and I was like, I have icy hot, do you want to massage, I don't know what your body is like, so what do you need?

[676] I have a leave.

[677] I have Tylenol.

[678] What is it that you need?

[679] We can get something door -dashed, and he starts getting really agitated.

[680] He's getting really upset because he says, typically he has his pain meds with him, and I was like, what are your pain meds?

[681] He said that his pain meds were.

[682] oxy cotton.

[683] Now, I have never met anyone who use these type of hard narcotics, but I am from an area on the East Coast where heavy narcotic use has led to a massive meth epidemic.

[684] I am friends with people who are teachers who have had their students not off in class, who have OD'd in bathrooms.

[685] I am from my area where this is really, really prevalent because of how easy it was at one point to get oxy.

[686] I'm super sensitive to this situation.

[687] He was super sensitive to my smoking weed because it's legal in California, but he was adamant that it never be around him.

[688] I found it really interesting that he would take these heavy drugs, but I couldn't take a hit of my vape pen if I wanted to.

[689] So we're talking about this, and I'm asking more about this injury, Because having a prescription is heavy as oxy -contin, then you have to have some type of massive back injury.

[690] You have to have gotten some type of surgery, some type of car accident, some type of something.

[691] And I have never heard anything about this.

[692] And we have talked for hours on end.

[693] We talk every day, multiple times a day.

[694] We fall asleep on the phone.

[695] But you've never told me on the phone any time or a text message or anything that your back was hurting you.

[696] It felt like an odd thing.

[697] And I'm being inquisitive, I'm pushing a little bit, and he's pushing back, and he's getting a little defensive.

[698] He ends up telling me that he could take his dose in threes.

[699] And once he said that, I knew that it didn't make sense.

[700] You can split a pill in half.

[701] I have pills that you split in half.

[702] But you don't split a pill into threes.

[703] Nothing about this made sense to me. He ends up blurting out that he doesn't have.

[704] actually swallow the oxycontin because he's snorting it.

[705] So he's snorting hard narcotics.

[706] I asked, is this his doctor know about this?

[707] Because I'm assuming that you get this prescription from a doctor.

[708] And I find out that he doesn't have a prescription and that he was agitated this entire weekend so far because he didn't have access to the drugs that his body is used to.

[709] And he's actually going through withdrawal.

[710] And that is why he's so irritated and he's so, frustrated.

[711] And that's why he's having these reactions to the temperature.

[712] And he's finding it irritating that we're in such close proximity to each other because he can't go into the bathroom and do a line because he's assuming that I'm going to notice that he's continually going to the bathroom and doing lines.

[713] That's when I'm like, you can't do this in my house.

[714] I fully support safe drug use, but there's a boundary within my house that this is not something that I'm comfortable with.

[715] And that's not okay.

[716] And of course, that leads to another huge, angry fight.

[717] We're going back and forth for a little while.

[718] And then again, things calm down.

[719] Enough to where he wants to extend his trip for an extra day.

[720] He's sweet talking me and he's love bombing me. He's like, I love you so much.

[721] You're so perfect.

[722] You take all of these great care of me. You make sure I'm fed. You're always cooking for me. And then at the same time, he's misogynistic where my only role was to be in the kitchen and to make sure his stuff was taken care of.

[723] He asked me to wash his clothes.

[724] The wash your clothes, it's my house, no big deal.

[725] I'm washing his clothes, and he's arguing with me because I'm not, according to him, doing it the right way.

[726] I've been washing my clothes since I was a good solid 12 years old by myself.

[727] If you wanted to do it, you're a way you should have done it.

[728] But again, I'm trying to still be the peacemaker.

[729] and making sure that everything's okay.

[730] So I'm being that happy housewife.

[731] He's like, I can totally see that you'd be taking care of our kids in the right way.

[732] And I'm like feeling, oh my God, you can see me as a mom.

[733] This feels so great.

[734] I never knew that I wanted to be a mother.

[735] I never knew I wanted all of this.

[736] And at the same time, I dreamt all of this and this feels so great.

[737] It felt good.

[738] But at the same time, it didn't feel good and it didn't feel right.

[739] And something felt off.

[740] So he extends his trip.

[741] I sent a group message.

[742] know, the group chat.

[743] And Monique was in that group chat.

[744] And I was like, oh, my God, he extended his trip for like another 24 hours.

[745] He changed his flight.

[746] This is so great.

[747] I'm so excited.

[748] And then within the hour, I call her saying, you need to get this guy out of my house.

[749] I don't know how to deal with this.

[750] That's next time on something was wrong.

[751] Thank you so much for listening.

[752] Until next time, stay safe, friend.

[753] Something Was Wrong is a broken cycle media production, created and hosted by me, Tiffany Reese.

[754] If you'd like to support the show further, you can share episodes with your loved ones, leave a positive review, or follow Something Was Wrong on Instagram at Something Was Wrong podcast.

[755] Our theme song was composed by Gladrags.

[756] Check out their album, Wonder Under.

[757] Thank you so much.

[758] If you like Something Was Wrong, you can listen early and add for you.

[759] free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[760] Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music.

[761] Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery .com slash survey.