#1027 - Courtney Dauwalter

[0] Five, four, three, two, one.

[1] Welcome, Courtney.

[2] Thank you.

[3] Thanks for having me. First of all, how did you do what you did?

[4] And how are you right now?

[5] We're just jumping right in.

[6] Yeah, let's just jump right in.

[7] For people who are just tuned into, Courtney won the Moab 240, which is a 238 mile endurance race through the, it's Moab, right?

[8] Right.

[9] In Utah.

[10] Deserts, canyons, mountains.

[11] And how long did it take you to run 238 miles?

[12] It took just under 58 hours.

[13] That is so crazy.

[14] And you beat the second place person by more than 20 miles, right?

[15] What was the distance?

[16] Yeah, I'm not sure the distance.

[17] I think it was around 20 or so.

[18] It was about 10 hours.

[19] How did you do that?

[20] How old are you?

[21] 32.

[22] That's young for these kind of races, right?

[23] Yeah, that's true.

[24] Because these kind of races, usually it's like grit and angry.

[25] at the world that gets you through.

[26] Yeah.

[27] And you're only 32.

[28] You're young.

[29] And the way you're winning is like so crazy.

[30] And you've only been doing this like big time races like this for a short amount of time, correct?

[31] Yeah, that's right.

[32] How long?

[33] I've been running ultra marathons for maybe seven, eight years, but getting pretty competitive in the past couple of years.

[34] Wow.

[35] So how did you start out?

[36] The race.

[37] How did you start out running?

[38] Did you start out in high school?

[39] Yeah, back in junior high, high school, I ran cross -country and track and continued endurance sports through college and tried some marathons.

[40] And then it was just like a natural segue into trail racing.

[41] But it's just the way you're beating these people is insane.

[42] You're not just beating them.

[43] You're like demoralizing people.

[44] Well, I hope not.

[45] You hope not.

[46] Oh, you're too nice.

[47] When you beat the second place person by 20 hours.

[48] or 20 miles.

[49] That's so crazy.

[50] 10 hours, you said?

[51] It was about 10 hours.

[52] That is insane.

[53] You're both start at the same time.

[54] Ready, said, go.

[55] You're finishing 10 hours ahead.

[56] Like, you could go, go to sleep, get eight hours sleep, have a nice meal, like, sit down, and then just show up, clean and showered and everything like that.

[57] Oh, you're finishing now?

[58] How cute.

[59] I just slept all night.

[60] I mean, that's crazy.

[61] Yeah, it was cool.

[62] I mean, it was a cool adventure to travel with your feet for 238 miles was, I mean, it was brand new territory for me, so I didn't know how it was going to go.

[63] Well, it's pretty much brand new territory for all the runners, right?

[64] This is like the first ever, 240, Moab 240?

[65] Quite a few of them had done a bunch of 200 -mile races before.

[66] Yeah, there you go.

[67] Let's picture you.

[68] Hoofing it.

[69] Hoofin.

[70] Crazy.

[71] So what is going on?

[72] Why are you so much better than everybody else?

[73] I think I had a good day out there.

[74] Get out of here.

[75] You had three days.

[76] You're trying to be too nice.

[77] But really, like, objectively, like, how are you so much better than everybody else?

[78] I don't know that I'm physically better than any of them, but I have been really trying to learn how to, like, tap into my brain when it physically becomes hard because I think our brain can help us overcome so.

[79] much and it's so powerful.

[80] So kind of that mind over matter thing and when it physically becomes impossible to try and switch gears into like have it be a mental thing and just keep pushing.

[81] So what are you doing to do that?

[82] Like have you studied some forms of meditation or?

[83] No, I think just experience like I keep on doing these races that put me in uncomfortable physical states.

[84] And then I try and keep in mind that my brain can help me overcome this physical pain if I just keep going.

[85] So that's it.

[86] Just stay tough.

[87] Trial and error, yeah.

[88] Wow.

[89] So essentially self -taught in terms of like your mental fortitude.

[90] Kind of, yeah, I guess.

[91] Probably could give some of that credit to like my parents or my upbringing or, you know, coaches I've had along the way.

[92] But in these.

[93] in this past couple years, it's been just, like, not letting myself have an excuse to stop.

[94] That's terrifying to everybody else, because if you did decide to start, like, learning meditation or something, what if, like, it took you to another level?

[95] That'd be cool.

[96] Do you meditate?

[97] Yeah.

[98] Would it do that?

[99] I don't know, because I can't do what you do.

[100] So I couldn't tell you.

[101] I mean, maybe it's just being comfortable with that excruciating.

[102] agony and pain and just like finding a state of mind that you obviously know how to achieve maybe there's nothing more to it maybe it's just incredibly hard work and just grit which which you obviously have bold of those I mean that could be just it yeah you might have the formula yeah I mean a lot of times people try to overthink things right mm -hmm like how many people do you know where their life sort of never changes but they're always like doing self -help seminars and reading all these books and fucking nothing changes it's just they're just the same thing person they keep screwing up they keep getting involved in bad relationships and you know um sometimes maybe it's it's just there's a simpler thing or simpler answer right set your mind to something put in the the work to get there and then just execute the plan now is this the furthest you've ever run that is the furthest yeah what was the previous furthest um the previous furthest was 155 ish miles Wow, that's a big difference.

[103] Yeah.

[104] And that was just on a flat track.

[105] Oh, wow.

[106] So this was really different than what I had done before.

[107] Well, that's the interesting thing about these mountain races.

[108] Because it's not just in terms of, it's not just your cardiovascular endurance.

[109] You have to have muscular endurance because you're climbing.

[110] There's a lot of elevation change, right?

[111] Yeah, quite a bit.

[112] It's nice, though, because then you get the, like, reprieve of using different muscles, Your hiking muscles might be different than like your flat running or your downhill muscles.

[113] So you get to kind of switch it around, switch the effort around.

[114] And why is everybody in this race using trekking poles?

[115] I noticed that.

[116] For me, they were helpful.

[117] I didn't use them until the probably last quarter of the race.

[118] Really?

[119] And they were helpful just as my feet were becoming a little more tender and my muscle is not quite as quick to catch me on the downhills and the uphills.

[120] just to like disperse the effort a little bit to my arms.

[121] Well, Jamie, pull up that video of the, you know, the sort of preview video of the Moab 240 when they showed all these people running over the top.

[122] There's some precarious section.

[123] Yeah.

[124] Like, and when you're tired, you've already run like 80, 90 miles.

[125] Then you hit these crazy precarious sections.

[126] Like, what is that like?

[127] That's like, don't die.

[128] And no one's there watching you.

[129] It's not like anybody's running with you other runners, right?

[130] Like this would be a lonely death.

[131] Moab 200 endurance run is 2 .38 mile foot race through some of Utah's most stunning and challenging terrain.

[132] And it really is stunning.

[133] Yeah, look at that.

[134] That's beautiful.

[135] God, so beautiful.

[136] And so Solomon is the sponsor of this?

[137] They're the presenting sponsor.

[138] And then there's a bunch of, like, sub -sponsors.

[139] I love their trail shoes.

[140] Look at this section.

[141] That is insane.

[142] This is the one that drives me nuts.

[143] It's like if you just stumble off the side, that's a wrap, son.

[144] Yeah.

[145] Whoa.

[146] Well, and they're making it look like so easy to run down.

[147] I'm pretty sure I was, like, stumbling my way down that a lot less gracefully.

[148] Well, how come these guys can't do it the way you do it, though?

[149] Like, something's going on.

[150] Because, like, this has got to be, like, insane for the other people that were running it, that you win by these giant margins.

[151] Yeah, I don't know.

[152] You really don't know.

[153] Like, are you, what is your diet like?

[154] Oh, yeah.

[155] Natchos.

[156] Candy.

[157] Nachos and candy?

[158] Wow.

[159] I mean, just a normal diet.

[160] I don't restrict or like try and include anything different than the normal, I guess, the average American.

[161] Wow.

[162] So do you supplement with vitamins or do you take anything else?

[163] I take a multivitamin.

[164] That's it?

[165] Yeah.

[166] Wow.

[167] No minerals, nothing, no creatine, nothing crazy?

[168] No?

[169] No. No?

[170] So just essentially a multivitamin and just hoofing it with nachos in your belly.

[171] Yeah, yeah.

[172] That's crazy.

[173] Like, I would expect that someone who is so far ahead of the rest of the pack that you would have some, like, you go to Colorado Springs, the Olympic training program, and they get you hooked up to these Rocky Four machines, like they had Drago, the Russian guy, and you're doing all this stuff, and they got like a music video soundtrack playing in the background.

[174] You're the best.

[175] Around!

[176] Right?

[177] I mean, that's what I would think.

[178] But meanwhile, you just drink a beer, eating nachos.

[179] Yeah.

[180] Does it help living in Colorado?

[181] Like, you're at a good altitude, right?

[182] Yeah, great altitude.

[183] I think it probably helps.

[184] I mean, I'm right outside Denver, so there's trails out my door.

[185] So that's my, like, everyday run is on trails, climbing around the foothills of Colorado.

[186] So quite a bit of climbing.

[187] We're already at altitude.

[188] So it's got to help.

[189] So talk me through your preparation.

[190] So when did it start?

[191] Like when did you sign up for this race?

[192] When did you know that you were going to do it?

[193] I signed up in May, but I also was signed up for a 100 -mile race a month prior to Moab in, so like mid -September.

[194] And so my preparation was mostly for that 100 -mile race.

[195] And then after the 100 -mileer, it was just trying to recover, make sure my leg's in by.

[196] body felt fresh again and then got squeezed in a couple more weeks of solid training to get ready for Moab.

[197] It's so funny because you say 100 miles, I'm like, that ain't shit.

[198] It's all so relative, you know, because a marathon to me would kill me. But, I mean, you saying that you ran 238 miles and then a 100 mile doesn't sound like much.

[199] I know.

[200] Child's play.

[201] How long does it take you to run 100 miles?

[202] usually somewhere around 24 hours or under depending on the trail and the climbing and stuff so when you're getting ready so you're preparing mostly for the 100 mile race and then it's sort of recovery and then did the 100 mile race essentially get you in condition for the 240 yeah that's what I hoped is that it could be a good springboard to the next one so is that condition is that a mental thing or are we talking about a physical thing and a mental thing I think both yeah you're body I mean your body is important so like the physical aspect is important as well and just being able to like pound your legs for the amount of time the amount of miles that you need to for these races is physically learned for sure so what kind of daily miles were you putting in when you're getting ready for the 100 I would average about 100 miles per week so I don't know so that's not even too crazy that's not too crazy right because my friend Cam Haynes was trying to do a marathon a day.

[203] Yeah, he's insane.

[204] That's so cool.

[205] Is that too much?

[206] I mean, no, he was doing great with it.

[207] Well, he came in a day later than you.

[208] You're like, yeah, keep it up.

[209] You know what?

[210] You should do like 40 miles a day.

[211] Keep going, buddy.

[212] No, I think it depends on people's bodies.

[213] Like some people, 100 miles per week is a lot.

[214] Their bodies can't sustain that.

[215] And for some, like Cam Haynes, he can do a marathon.

[216] marathon a day and and be in great physical form for it but he's a meathead and I always wonder I love him by the way I say this with all due respect I wonder if like he pushes too hard like maybe there's like a fine line between there's like a point of diminishing return perhaps yeah yeah you know where you you go so hard that you're kind of over training and even though you can sustain it really you get better performance out of being like pushing less right yeah I don't I can't speak to to his training but I think he's pretty new to all these ultras as well.

[217] Yeah, I think so over the last few years.

[218] He did the Bigfoot 200 last year.

[219] He did just 205 miles.

[220] He did that in 78 hours.

[221] He actually did this race two hours quicker than he did the 205.

[222] Which is so cool.

[223] Crazy.

[224] Probably because he's just humiliated by you.

[225] Oh, no. I hope not.

[226] This chick beat me by a day.

[227] She beat me by a day.

[228] So, like, forget about the second place person who you could have taken a nice, restful eight -hour sleep, gotten a fine meal at a restaurant, had a glass of wine, and took a shower, and brush your teeth, painted your toenails, if you have any left.

[229] Do they all fall off?

[230] No, still got 10.

[231] Really?

[232] Yeah.

[233] Cam's all fall off.

[234] He takes pictures of them all taped up.

[235] Oh, really?

[236] Yeah, it's disgusting.

[237] So when you're recovering from something like this, how long does it take before you feel normal again?

[238] Um, after this one I felt, like a human.

[239] So I finished Sunday night, and I felt human by Wednesday, probably.

[240] And got out for some jogs then, like, Friday, Saturday.

[241] Really?

[242] Yeah.

[243] Wow.

[244] I would be done with jogging forever.

[245] I'd be like enough of this.

[246] This is so stupid.

[247] I just take a car next time.

[248] So like when you say you felt like a human again, like what do you mean by that?

[249] For me, those first couple of nights after I don't sleep very well, I think, like, everything's just on overdrive.

[250] My legs are throbbing and uncomfortable, and it's hard to, like, turn your brain off as much as you want to.

[251] So I was finally, like, getting good normal sleep by Wednesday, and it kind of messed with my appetite for a couple days as well, where food just, like, wasn't, it didn't sound that great, even though I was, like, totally depleted of nutrition.

[252] Yeah.

[253] Yeah, it's got to be such a shock for your body.

[254] Oh, for sure.

[255] Who knows?

[256] That's probably not good for us, but...

[257] It can't be.

[258] Well, I say it can't be, but maybe it can be, right?

[259] Because maybe you're recovering, and maybe when you recover from that extreme exertion, your vitality ups.

[260] Right.

[261] Because, like, there's all these, like, people that say, like, I've read this, that if you run a marathon, you should take six months off.

[262] I've read that.

[263] I actually read that, like someone's recommendation.

[264] It takes you six months to recover from a marathon.

[265] From one marathon.

[266] Well, who?

[267] Who, who, you, fatso?

[268] Like, who are you talking about?

[269] Who's saying this?

[270] Like, obviously, there's people that can do more than you.

[271] Like, people who are writing this stuff down are silly.

[272] Because, no, because Cam, if he can run a marathon a day, obviously he doesn't need six months off.

[273] Right.

[274] And I've hung out with him after he's done this, and he's totally normal.

[275] Yeah.

[276] Like, it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong with him.

[277] So that's not true.

[278] So the question is, like, who are we comparing to?

[279] Like, who's our baseline?

[280] Is our baseline like a guy who barely works out, or is our baseline you?

[281] Because you're going to get two radically different results.

[282] Right.

[283] Got to take those articles with a grain of salt.

[284] Yeah.

[285] Well, that's the thing.

[286] What I was saying to Kim, I was like, well, how do you know how much to train?

[287] No one knows how much to train for this stuff, because it's really just guesswork.

[288] Yeah.

[289] Yeah.

[290] Which is part of the cool part.

[291] You know, it's like there's a million pieces to the puzzle of ultra running and figuring them out is part of the fun of doing this sport.

[292] now what has it been like for you after you won because you're a like i i've talked to so many people that really have no interest normally in endurance running and they've brought you up constantly like you're like a superstar it sounds good so i'm sure this sounds crazy to you but like uh my friend brian stevens he was texting me the whole way back and forth while this was going on and you know he was like looking at your numbers and your times he's like this is fucking insane like this woman is insane like how is she doing this well thank you they had a good tracking system that was so fun for people to watch yeah yeah that's what brian was saying he's like i've never been less productive right because i'm just going online and checking this thing constantly um yeah i mean since then i had to create a twitter and you didn't have any social media instagram i had a facebook but maybe that's how you were successful i don't know you weren't just bogged down by all the nonsense that people just you know social media nonsense can eat up a lot of your day yeah well i'm still figuring it out so don't don't even bother just occasionally post things and just ignore everything else yeah yeah just i'll just retweet a few things yeah that's the move just learning about those yeah just press that little retreat button whenever anything's interesting that's a good move yeah so like when you when you finish the race like what is the feeling like when you cross the line and you look back and You don't even see a person.

[293] Like, you wouldn't be able to see them with fucking binoculars.

[294] Like, they're on the other side of the earth.

[295] Like, the curve of the earth, if you believe that, though.

[296] The curve of the earth is literally so far.

[297] Like, they're beyond the curve.

[298] That's true, right?

[299] Isn't it?

[300] 20 miles?

[301] I would imagine you can't see straight 20 miles.

[302] I would imagine 20 miles.

[303] You might be able to see the top of dude's head.

[304] And he's like, you'd have to have one of them crazy Biden.

[305] You know, if you're glassing, you can probably see him.

[306] Yeah, if you're glassing.

[307] Just glassing.

[308] I mean, what is that feeling like?

[309] It felt amazing.

[310] You know, with the tracking system that we had, when I left the last aid station, there's like 17 miles to go, and it was pretty much we could see that it was certain that I could get to the line first, as long as I didn't, like, take a nap out there.

[311] or become, like, physically incapable.

[312] But you could take a nap.

[313] That was the thing.

[314] You could take a nice one.

[315] Did you think about that?

[316] No. Let me just take a nice nap here.

[317] Oh, a nice five -hour nap.

[318] And you still have like five -plus hours ahead of everybody.

[319] Yeah.

[320] Oh, maybe you'd, yeah, that would be nice.

[321] Well, so it was nice because we could, I was running with my husband at that point.

[322] We could enjoy the trail and, like, not be, like, super anxious about trying to be really efficient but just trying to be efficient on the course.

[323] But then we saw that getting under 58 hours was possible.

[324] So then I got a little like be in my bonnet about trying to push the pace a little bit more.

[325] A be in your bonnet.

[326] I've never heard that phrase before.

[327] That's a great phrase.

[328] Oh, you should come to Minnesota.

[329] We've got all sorts of good phrases.

[330] So does your husband run the same kind of races that you run or did he just like hop in every now and then?

[331] He runs 50 -mileers and 50K, so 31 miles.

[332] But he didn't enter this race?

[333] No, he didn't.

[334] So he just kind of helped you along, like you jumped in at certain spots?

[335] So how does he get to these spots?

[336] You have to drive?

[337] Yeah, yeah.

[338] So he's all relaxed and got a Starbucks in his hand?

[339] If you picture a 238 -mile loop, he had to drive to all of the places on this course.

[340] Oh, poor baby.

[341] He spent the day in the car, the couple days in the car, and I had a fantastic crew of friends out there.

[342] And in these races, you can have pacer's for certain.

[343] sections.

[344] So I could have a buddy run with me who was fresh and like their brain and their eyes and their legs were more alert to help me just keep track of the course flags, like staying on course and stuff like that.

[345] That's interesting.

[346] Like when you're doing this for this amount of hours, what was the total hours again?

[347] 50.

[348] Right under 58.

[349] So when you're doing it for this amount of hours, how much sleep are you getting?

[350] I slept 21 minutes.

[351] Wow, that is so crazy.

[352] That was two separate naps.

[353] Really?

[354] Yeah.

[355] So like 10 and an 11?

[356] 20 and a 1.

[357] Really?

[358] Yeah.

[359] The one minute nap?

[360] Oh, man, it was amazing.

[361] It was the best sleep I've ever had.

[362] Was it really?

[363] It really was.

[364] Why did you get up, though, after a minute?

[365] So I did the 20 -minute nap intentionally.

[366] I crawled in the back of our crew car.

[367] We had a sleeping bag back there.

[368] and I tried to, like, get some good rest after, it was, like, middle of the second night.

[369] And I didn't sleep very well.

[370] I was just really uncomfortable.

[371] Yeah, and I was still, like, pretty amped up, so I couldn't shut my brain off, even though it was, like, becoming pretty delirious.

[372] So then I left that aid station after laying in the car for 20 minutes, and I was on the trail with one of my good friends and Pacers, and I was falling asleep as I was running, like zigzagging.

[373] all over the trail.

[374] I couldn't keep my eyes open.

[375] So at one point I was bent over and I was like face planning towards the ground and he's like, just lay down, like take a nap right here, right on the trail.

[376] So I'm like laying down, already snoring as I'm like, one minute, just one minute, wakes me up one minute later and I was like more alert than I've ever been.

[377] And then we were super pumped up the rest of the time because we were like, a one minute nap, it worked.

[378] That's the craziest thing I've ever heard in my life.

[379] A bunch of people, like, I talked to Cam, I think he took a similarly, like, really short nap, and it just, like, rejuvenates you in a weird way.

[380] Wow.

[381] I've heard that before that, like, if you're really tired, a 20 -minute nap will make a huge difference if you could just lie down.

[382] And I've always, like, ignored that.

[383] Like, how is that going to be beneficial?

[384] Yeah.

[385] And next time, try just one minute.

[386] I'm too lazy.

[387] I would stay asleep.

[388] So how to, like, when he woke you up after one minute, Were you like, why did you wake me up?

[389] No, I was like, why did you let me sleep so long?

[390] I thought it had been, I thought it had been at least 30 minutes.

[391] And I was like, dude, we got to go.

[392] Why'd you let me sleep so long?

[393] Wow.

[394] That was one minute.

[395] One whole minute.

[396] Ready, go, and you were just out cold.

[397] Out cold.

[398] I rem cycled, like, dreams and everything.

[399] Really?

[400] Yeah.

[401] Do you remember them?

[402] I don't.

[403] But it was like the deepest sleep.

[404] Wow.

[405] And what was cool is, as I was laying on the trail for one minute, it was dark and beautiful stars out and they're elk bugling like up on the hillside.

[406] It was cool.

[407] I didn't, I didn't hallucinate that.

[408] That was real.

[409] Did you hallucinate at all?

[410] I had some hallucinations, yeah.

[411] What would you see?

[412] You know, in the forest at night, everything just like becomes something.

[413] So there were tons of like faces and animals.

[414] There was a guy playing a cello.

[415] There was a leopard hanging out in a hammock it was like and how vivid are these I mean pretty like where I think they're real and I'm like waving at them you're waving at the leopard in the hammock well I didn't wave to him I waved to the cello player really but did you know he wasn't real as you were running by?

[416] Yeah I mean now that I've done these quite a few times in the night I usually see some things and so now it's just like kind of cool to acknowledge that it's happening and try and remember so I can and tell my friends afterwards.

[417] So is there any part of you that thinks, like, hey, there's a guy with a cello in the woods?

[418] Or is there just a recognition that you're freaking out because you're running 58 miles or 58 hours?

[419] I think just a recognition, like, huh, guy with cello, noted.

[420] So you're just so focused on what you're doing that, even the most bizarre thing, like a leopard and a hammock.

[421] Yeah, I mean, it just happens now.

[422] I know there's not actually one.

[423] But how often does this take place?

[424] I mean, how many of these have you done, these ultramarathons?

[425] Quite a few.

[426] And did they start, the hallucinations start in the early ones?

[427] Yeah, basically, like my first couple hundred -mile is where you go through the night.

[428] It's always the nighttime where shadows just like play tricks on you.

[429] And so I'm like in the mountains of Colorado and there's giraffes and like flying eels and all sorts of weird things.

[430] And at first I was freaked out about it.

[431] But now it's just like, all right, that'll be a fun story to tell afterwards.

[432] Have you talked to a doctor or anyone that say, hey, what happens to the mind when?

[433] No, I haven't.

[434] I'd be fascinated to know, like, what is, what's happening that's causing you to have these, like, extreme visual hallucinations?

[435] So you're saying they looked real.

[436] Yeah.

[437] But I think it's just, like, shadows and your brain is too tired to, like, process.

[438] it just like jumbles them together into something that would make sense.

[439] Wow.

[440] I don't know.

[441] But it's not freaking you out.

[442] You're just like, all right.

[443] Hey, cello guy.

[444] Hey, man. Rock on, dude.

[445] Yeah, thanks for the tunes.

[446] Could you hear him?

[447] No. No?

[448] So he was just like silently playing a cello.

[449] Yeah, which is creepy in itself.

[450] Wow.

[451] Is that the only hallucinations or is anything else weird?

[452] During this one?

[453] Yeah.

[454] Those were like the significant ones.

[455] otherwise just a lot of like random faces on trees or rocks and stuff like that now as you're running right and you're running for 50 whatever miles or 58 hours and you're constantly moving forward is you're a point in time where your body like like what does it feel like are you like in constant pain or are you just numb to it like what happens um it's kind of you go in waves like you'll be riding this wave where you're just feeling like amazing and really fresh and like your legs can cruise pretty well and everything nothing hurts you know everything's feeling really good and then that wave will eventually come crashing down where things are hurting again and you might be like whimpering along for a little bit but the cool part about these is that those waves like I mean they always come and then they they go so you ride this like high and low the whole race And when it gets really low, when you're feeling awful, you just have to remember that you're going to feel better again soon.

[456] You just got to keep chugging along.

[457] So you're in pain and then somehow or another you feel better even though you don't stop running?

[458] Yeah, yeah.

[459] How does that work?

[460] I don't know, like a switch flips or sometimes I'll like intentionally during those lows take more calories in thinking maybe that will help just like give my body some something to burn for a while to make it.

[461] happy again what kind of stuff can you eat while you're running this much um in one this length i was doing a lot of um like water gatorade and then there's this powder you can put in water called tailwind it has like electrolytes and um 200 calories per bottle so you're getting in calories and then like normal athletic foods like honey stinger products which are like gels and and shoes and stuff but then i was eating boatloads of the cheese quesidillas at all the aid stations.

[462] They served cheese quesadillas?

[463] Oh my gosh.

[464] It was like a whole buffet line.

[465] Anything you wanted were at these aid stations, yeah.

[466] And it was good?

[467] Oh, it was amazing.

[468] Wow.

[469] So you could eat cheese cassidias and just keep running?

[470] Yeah, so I would stop at each aid station, demolish a cheese quesadilla, like hang out for just a second to let my body reset and then keep cruising.

[471] Wow.

[472] Which normally I'm not very good at eating real food during, but this just felt like too much.

[473] There's Cam with a bacon cheeseburger.

[474] Yeah.

[475] Covered in a blanket.

[476] Oh, that's another thing.

[477] Like, there's points in the race where it's extremely cold, right?

[478] It got really cold.

[479] I think we hit nine degrees on the second night.

[480] And what are you wearing?

[481] A couple jackets, like a windbreaker jacket and a rain jacket and some gloves and like a headband, some pants, nothing like absurd.

[482] so just the fact that you're constantly moving you stay fairly warm yeah and the wind breaker is the the rain jacket to stop rain or from wind just layers I just wanted to like try and insulate the body heat are you eating those uh those little waffle things those bee stingers yeah I love those are great too you've had them yeah they're awesome so you're just trying to take in like the densest stuff like sugars and cheese and case yeah just anything just anything that would stay in.

[483] I didn't want to get nauseous and start losing it on the trail.

[484] And Cam said he doesn't go to the bathroom the entire time.

[485] Like, he doesn't have to.

[486] It just food just goes in and just gets burned.

[487] Yeah.

[488] Is that the case with you too?

[489] I use the bathroom.

[490] It's a rude question to ask women.

[491] Yeah, no, bring it.

[492] For some reason.

[493] But he said he didn't poop for like three days.

[494] I don't know if that's healthy, Cam.

[495] Yeah, he's got a lot of unhealthy problems.

[496] Talk to him.

[497] Maybe he'll listen to you.

[498] He doesn't.

[499] Listen to me. No, I used the restroom while I was out there.

[500] Did you have to pee?

[501] Yeah.

[502] Well, that's crazy because I would think that you're sweating so much that it would just go right through your skin.

[503] Yeah, I'm not sure the science of it.

[504] For a while, I was peeing way too much, like, multiple times per mile.

[505] And I think it has something to do with the amount of salt that you're taking in.

[506] That was another question I had.

[507] Do you, are you taking salt tablets?

[508] I wasn't until I was having this problem, and then it was like, we got to try and stop this, because that's not good either to go as often as that.

[509] Yeah.

[510] So then I took some salt tabs or whatever pills.

[511] Did that clear it up?

[512] Yep.

[513] Now, what are those, like, do you know what milligrams, how much salt you're actually taken in?

[514] No. No. They're just like S -caps or something.

[515] They're just a normal, like, you can buy them at any athletic store.

[516] Oh, so there's just a little pill of salt, I think, essentially.

[517] And it's mostly for runners, essentially.

[518] That's all I've seen use them.

[519] but you could probably have some if you wanted.

[520] So what's the thought process behind it, though?

[521] The thought process is that your body is pushing through all these minerals and the salt helps you retain water, is it a good idea?

[522] And what about other minerals?

[523] Do you have to take magnesium or anything else why you're doing that?

[524] I didn't, no. And I don't even really know the exact contents of that tailwind powder that I was putting in.

[525] I know it has lots of electrolytes and stuff like that that's supposed to help, but I'm not sure if it has some of the other pieces that people need during these.

[526] Now, before the race gets started, do you hyperhydrate?

[527] Do you, like, drink a ton of water to get ready?

[528] Yeah, I tried.

[529] I mean, nothing too crazy.

[530] Nothing too crazy?

[531] No. What about food before the race?

[532] Do you just eat like a pig and get ready?

[533] No. No. Just normal.

[534] Just normal.

[535] Normal nachos.

[536] Just normal nachos, normal beer.

[537] And so, like, when you're, like, as you're leaving, like, as ready set, go, what's the state of mind you go into when you know that you're about to run 238 miles and kick everybody's ass?

[538] It was exciting.

[539] I mean, it was this big adventure that I had high expectations of myself while at the same time having no expectations of myself because I didn't know, I didn't know how it was going to go.

[540] And I really wanted to just enjoy being out there, like moving my body with my feet for multiple days, was really exciting.

[541] And so I was pumped at the beginning and spent those first probably 50 miles, like running with various people through the desert.

[542] There's like canyon walls just like towering on every side and just trying to enjoy that like this is just the beginning.

[543] If you start to comprehend or think about like how far you have to go, you're going to.

[544] freak yourself out so like just be right now so you just sort of stay in the moment that's what i was trying to do yeah just left foot right foot left foot right foot yep yep go go go go that's it easy as that is there ever a moment while you're doing this where you want to stop and quit yes no i never wanted to quit i uh i knew that the cutoff time was was um Tuesday night and so no matter what happened out there, I was going to make sure I finished this race, even if I was coming in Tuesday night, like, if it meant I had to sleep for many, many hours or multiple times, or if I had to, like, death march my way around the desert, I was going to finish it.

[545] Death march?

[546] You know, just, like, slow.

[547] Oh, okay.

[548] That's a harsh way of looking at, though.

[549] Oh, sorry.

[550] No, no, just don't apologize.

[551] It's good.

[552] because I did notice that there were some people that were still running.

[553] You know, after you guys had finished, and, you know, after Cam had finished, I stopped looking at the time for quite a while.

[554] And then I went, like, eight hours, nine hours later.

[555] And I'm like, oh, my God, people are still running.

[556] Yeah, those are warriors.

[557] They're so impressive.

[558] I mean, they were out there putting on their headlamp for the fifth night.

[559] That's a long time to be out there.

[560] And they were, it was incredible.

[561] We got to hang around.

[562] the finish line and watched quite a few of those you stuck around yep yeah that was one of the best parts we eat an ice cream uh drinking beer but did you think to yourself like how the hell did I finish so much faster than anybody um no I thought how the heck are these people like so incredible and still going after I mean I'd like to think I'd be able to keep pushing myself on that fourth day into the fourth night, but that's mentally really hard.

[563] Oh, it's got to be.

[564] Yeah.

[565] But you do understand that you stomped everybody's ass.

[566] You do get that, right?

[567] You're like, you're so humble.

[568] This is kind of amazing.

[569] Thank you.

[570] You do understand that, though, right?

[571] I mean, it's like, has it internalized?

[572] I understand, yeah.

[573] I put together a pretty good day.

[574] And when you stop and you think about, when you reflect and you look back on it, we're like, you know, a week past it, what was about more than two weeks?

[575] How long ago was it?

[576] Oh, one week.

[577] One week?

[578] Yep.

[579] So you're a week past it, and how do you, like, how do you process that?

[580] Yeah, that's still, I'm still working on it.

[581] Like, just the whole adventure, all the places, like all the sites I got to see, the people that I got to meet, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the.

[582] The fact that my feet carried me that far, like...

[583] What kind of shoes do you run in?

[584] Solomon's shoes.

[585] Okay, so same as the...

[586] Which ones?

[587] They're called the Sense Ride.

[588] Mm -hmm.

[589] Have you tried them?

[590] No, I haven't.

[591] I see you got some Solomon's on.

[592] Yeah, I always wear these trail runner things, speed cross ones.

[593] Speed cross.

[594] I like those because they're good, they have a lot of grip to them.

[595] When I'm not wearing those vibrams, I wear those five finger shoes too, I sort of alternate.

[596] So do you run the sidewalks in those?

[597] No, I just run trails.

[598] You run around here.

[599] Yeah.

[600] That's awesome.

[601] It's good, but it's not, like Colorado, you're dealing with altitude and a lot more.

[602] You also have, like, didn't someone just die?

[603] Some endurance guy just got bit by a rattlesnake near you?

[604] Yeah.

[605] That's in golden, wasn't it?

[606] Yep, which is where I live.

[607] Holy shit.

[608] Yeah.

[609] What happened to that, dude?

[610] It was really unfortunate.

[611] I don't actually know the whole story, but he was out on a trail.

[612] Like, it's a couple miles from my house and got bit and had some, like weird reaction to it.

[613] Like, he had help pretty quickly and got to the hospital in pretty good time, but unfortunately, something about his body and that bite, like, wasn't good.

[614] Wow.

[615] Yeah.

[616] Because I've thought rattlesnakes, like, you have a few hours.

[617] Yeah.

[618] Usually, right?

[619] Yeah, I mean.

[620] It's not good, but you have a few hours.

[621] And pretty much, if you read anything about what to do after a rattlesnake bite, those things are wrong.

[622] Like you pretty much can't do anything.

[623] You shouldn't suck the venom out.

[624] You shouldn't like slice it open.

[625] You shouldn't do anything.

[626] Just get to the hospital as calmly as possible.

[627] You shouldn't suck the venom out?

[628] No. What was that in a Dan Aykroyd movie?

[629] Where he got like venom in his butt and he was telling someone to suck the venom on his butt.

[630] Remember that?

[631] No. I remember that.

[632] But I bet we're going to see it here in a second.

[633] Jamie's furiously typing because the reason why I remember it is because Sam Kinnison was mocking him was mocking it but they almost had some sort of a feud back in the day anyway Well if he had city slickers Wasn't it in city slickers?

[634] Oh okay Oh that's why Sam Kinnison was mocking it He got kicked off the original city slickers He was in it He was in the original cast And he didn't get along with somebody And they got rid of him Well it wouldn't have helped If he did suck them in him out Why do people think that you should do that?

[635] I don't know.

[636] Like Old Wives' Tale or something?

[637] I'm not sure.

[638] Yeah, they say you're supposed to cut it, cut it open.

[639] Yeah, you're not supposed to do that either.

[640] What do you do?

[641] Do you make a tourniquet?

[642] I think that's actually a good idea, right?

[643] The latest thing I read that's the best to do is just to have a Sharpie along.

[644] Circle where the bite is and mark the time.

[645] And then, like, every 20 minutes, if you have to hike yourself out or, like, you're trying to get somewhere to go get help.

[646] circle it again 20 minutes later to show where the swelling has gotten to so that the doctors have a better idea of like how quickly it's it's moving through you.

[647] I saw a horrible thing online to this young man got bit in his arm and his skin started to die and his tissue started to die, you know, necrosis.

[648] And so they had to do all these massive skin grafts and just massive of surgeries and it had essentially rotted down to the bone and you can see like the bone in his arm it was rough but he lived he lived yeah but i think he'd gone through more than 10 surgeries geez yeah it was awful and i didn't know the rattlesnakes could do that to you i'm like whoa yeah you have rattlesnakes here oh yeah yeah i killed one just a couple weeks ago with your bare hands stomped it oh yeah i stomp on every chance i get people say you shouldn't but Fuck them.

[649] Like, if they're near my house, like, there's no, I have kids.

[650] I have little kids.

[651] Like, any rattlesnake that's in my yard is dead.

[652] What else?

[653] You guys have mountain lions out here?

[654] Yes.

[655] Yeah.

[656] Have you ever seen one of those?

[657] I have seen them, but I saw them in Colorado.

[658] I haven't seen one out here.

[659] I saw one in Santa Barbara, actually.

[660] That was weird.

[661] It was in Montecito, which is like this really nice residential community.

[662] We were driving up the road, and I saw what I thought was a coyote.

[663] I was like, you're a coyote.

[664] I go, what a tail.

[665] It's a fucking cat.

[666] Just out on the street.

[667] Just out on a regular street.

[668] Yeah, it was a big fucker, too.

[669] Yeah.

[670] You know, like probably 70, 80 pounds.

[671] Those are scary.

[672] Yeah, it's like, I mean, it's not big for a mountain lion.

[673] They get to be like 150 and up.

[674] What's really interesting on here is people don't, everyone here is so urbanized that their understanding of what a mountain lion is, is like, you know, they think it's the lion king.

[675] Yeah, yeah.

[676] There's just one that, he has a name, too.

[677] It's like P32 or P3.

[678] P -41 or some shit.

[679] He went on a killing rampage at an alpaca farm.

[680] Okay.

[681] And killed like 11 alpacas and a goat.

[682] Yeah.

[683] And doesn't even eat him.

[684] He just went on a rampage.

[685] Yeah.

[686] And this woman got a depredation permit to kill it because it's her alpaca farm.

[687] And like this lion has just decided to start fucking up her animals.

[688] And this is like what she does for a living.

[689] Okay.

[690] And she got all these death threats from animal rights activists.

[691] I mean, like, death threats.

[692] Like, she was terrified, so she decided not to do anything.

[693] She was going to hire someone to kill this mountain line.

[694] But it's like, if you love animals, wouldn't you want to stop the animal that's murdering all her animals?

[695] Right.

[696] You fucking crazy assholes.

[697] Well, and it's not doing it for food, which is unusual.

[698] Well, apparently they have a reaction that can get into a pen when there's a bunch of them in there.

[699] They just can't help themselves.

[700] Okay.

[701] They just can't help themselves.

[702] They just see them all there, and they just jack one and jacked the other one.

[703] And he wasn't even eating them.

[704] He didn't eat any of them.

[705] Geez.

[706] Yeah.

[707] Yeah, I've never seen one out on a run, but I've always got my eyes peeled.

[708] It would be so scary.

[709] Oh, they're terrifying.

[710] They're terrifying animals.

[711] And, you know, for the most part, they're important.

[712] They're the important part of the ecosystem.

[713] Oh, yeah.

[714] But the weird thing about out here is we've sort of sectioned off their habitat by our highway system.

[715] And so there's some of them that are stuck in the Santa Monica Mountains, and the genetic diversity is not very strong.

[716] Right.

[717] I actually had a coyote expert on here.

[718] who was uh he works for the what did he work for the what was the actual organization he worked for far what the hell was it we just do this for a anyway some sort of park ranger type fellow really nice guy but he was telling us about um the ones that they have like in griffiths park there's a mountain line in griffiths park people just jogging and riding their bikes and this guy's just out there eating deer all day long and they have to capture him every couple of years they have to dart him because his collar, the tracking device and his collar runs out of batteries.

[719] So every couple of years they've got to put the whack on this guy, put him to sleep, and redo it.

[720] But they leave him in the park.

[721] Mm -hmm.

[722] Huh.

[723] They don't want to relocate?

[724] No. Well, it's interesting.

[725] It's one of the good things about California is that we don't have a lot of car accidents with deer.

[726] You know, it's very uncommon.

[727] Okay.

[728] Whereas you said you're from Michigan.

[729] Minnesota.

[730] Minnesota has a lot.

[731] A lot of them.

[732] A lot of car accidents.

[733] Yeah.

[734] And these places where they don't have apex predators, they have a lot.

[735] Well, does, do you guys have, what do you have out there?

[736] Like as far as, do you have wolves?

[737] In Minnesota?

[738] Yeah.

[739] Wolves.

[740] Yeah.

[741] Um, deer.

[742] I think like way north, there's even like, I mean, there's got to be moose and.

[743] Do you have mountain lines in Minnesota?

[744] I don't know about any mountain lines.

[745] Yeah.

[746] Well, out here, there's a, there's, There's a lot of coyotes which get the fawns, and then there's mountain lines which decimate the deer.

[747] So no car accidents.

[748] Very few deer.

[749] California is like a really low deer density state.

[750] Interesting.

[751] So there's a good to that.

[752] Northern Minnesota fighting cougars now believed to be bodcaps.

[753] Oh, they were fighting each other.

[754] They're up in a tree.

[755] Yeah, that's a bobcat.

[756] Where's his tail?

[757] No, that's fate.

[758] That's what this one is, but I don't think about that.

[759] Oh.

[760] Like, that's Photoshop.

[761] What is the one on the left?

[762] What is that?

[763] It's probably to hide something.

[764] It's cardboard cutout of a typical size of a cougar or mountain line left is compared to the photograph of a bobcat.

[765] Oh, they were just probably doing it for the photos.

[766] Oh, yeah.

[767] Oh, that makes sense.

[768] Just Minnesotans passing the time.

[769] Oh, yeah.

[770] Well, I saw a bobcat that I thought was a cougar.

[771] I saw a bobcat with its cubs at Tahoe ranch, and I thought it was a cougar.

[772] It's their tail.

[773] Their tail will give it away.

[774] Yeah.

[775] Yeah.

[776] Well, I just saw the cat.

[777] I saw like this big cat in the road.

[778] I was like, whoa, is that a mountline?

[779] And then we eventually figured out that it was a bobcat.

[780] But they get to a good size.

[781] So we do have Bobcats in Minnesota.

[782] So I got a question for you.

[783] Can you talk about the Run Rabbit Run race you had that you won?

[784] Yeah, we can talk about that.

[785] How did it end?

[786] No. I'll let her describe it because it sounds pretty crazy.

[787] What happened?

[788] So the 100 -mile race that I was doing a month before Moab, at about, I mean, 12 miles roughly to the finish line, my vision started blurring, like, in the periphery, and over the course of the next couple miles, closed in until it was pure white.

[789] I couldn't see anything.

[790] So I just, like, stumbled my way along roughly 10 miles of trails to get to the finish line.

[791] Pretty much, I would say, like, 98 % blind.

[792] What?

[793] I could see my feet, like right in front of my feet, but it was just white out.

[794] So I was running and falling everywhere.

[795] It was probably hilarious if people were watching, but I hit my head also on a rock.

[796] After you're blind?

[797] Yeah, one of the times I fell.

[798] So I had blood dripping down my face, like, stumbling along, totally couldn't see the trail.

[799] And you still won?

[800] Yeah, managed to finish and hold the lead.

[801] You're a savage.

[802] You should give seminars on how to be a savage.

[803] That is crazy.

[804] So what happened to your vision?

[805] So since then, there's been tons of people kind of talking about it.

[806] Apparently it happens in Ultros quite often.

[807] They are thinking it's a corneal edema.

[808] So basically, like, I wear contact lenses to see.

[809] and the contact mixed with the air and the dryness and all sorts of things cause like a kind of fluid or I'm not really sure how it works.

[810] Have you ever thought about getting LASICs or something?

[811] People who have done LASIC also get this corneal edema.

[812] So for now I'm just staying with the contacts because I've been learning how to deal with those a little bit better.

[813] Well, did that concern you at all when you're about to run 200?

[814] and 38 miles?

[815] Yeah, I really didn't want to go blind again.

[816] Yeah, Jesus Christ.

[817] But I...

[818] Especially at that course.

[819] Yeah, yeah, right off a cliff.

[820] Yeah.

[821] Oh.

[822] I was using eyedrops, just to like get some like tears going in there.

[823] And I wore glasses for this whole race in Moab because that's supposed to help as well.

[824] Keep grit from hitting your arm.

[825] Yeah, yeah.

[826] Now, when you got back and you won that race and you were, were basically almost blind.

[827] How long did it take for your vision to recover?

[828] Five, six hours.

[829] Oh, that's it?

[830] Yeah.

[831] Oh, that must have been a relief.

[832] Oh, such a relief.

[833] Yeah.

[834] I was pretty sick of it by the time I finished.

[835] But were you concerned that it could be potentially permanent?

[836] You know, it didn't feel permanent.

[837] It felt, I think because it went white and because it, like, moved in slowly, it felt like topical.

[838] I don't know.

[839] I didn't, I didn't really consider while I was racing if it was permanent.

[840] I was just like amped on finishing the race at that point.

[841] But once I finished, no one seemed overly concerned about it.

[842] Like, we went to the hospital and they were more concerned with checking out my head.

[843] So it didn't feel like that urgent.

[844] Whoa.

[845] Yeah.

[846] But it was weird.

[847] Yeah.

[848] Did you think about quitting?

[849] No. Jesus Christ.

[850] Even though you're blind and you got a concussion, you look like, Like, Carrie, to prom night?

[851] Like, what the hell?

[852] Well, I hit my head, and it thunked pretty hard, and then there was liquid dripping on my face, but I put my hand up to touch it, and I couldn't see my hand in front of my face to see if it was blood or not.

[853] Wow.

[854] So I had no idea.

[855] And what is this course like that you're running on?

[856] It's in Steamboat, Colorado, so mountains and pretty rough trails on this section where I fell.

[857] yeah but the last six miles of the race you finally get to like a fire road so a little bit wider a little more room for error if you go crooked that's just so crazy so how are you knowing where to step you're not you're just guessing so that's a picture of the course yeah so you're running that course blind well that section's quite a bit more technical than the section i went blind on When you say technical, what exactly do you mean?

[858] Like big rocks and cliffs, stuff like that.

[859] Why would that be technical?

[860] I don't know.

[861] That's just the word they associate with like trickier trails.

[862] Like you have to be more used technique.

[863] Is that what they're saying?

[864] Maybe.

[865] I've heard that term before.

[866] That's why I always ask.

[867] Like people talk about like technical terrain.

[868] Like, you know.

[869] I don't know what it, I don't know the root word for it.

[870] I guess you just can't just flat.

[871] out just hoof it you have to think about what you're doing yeah like your foot placement is critical a little bit trickier you're kind of looking down a lot while you're running yeah you can't just run straight right right like because most people like if you're running on a flat trail you're just kind of looking ahead you're assuming the road is going to be the same with the left foot as it is for the right foot and the left same thing right this you can't right yeah now when you're doing something like that I would think when you got to constantly look down that is when that would be concerned about like mountain lines or something like that yeah because you're not looking yeah and they probably think you're trying to get away right yeah i'm pretty sure if you end up seeing the mountain line it's already too late for you oh really did you hear about that kid in alaska they got eaten by a bear in a race yeah that's unfortunate yeah called his mom too called his mom before the bear attacked him and said i think there's a bear that's following me yeah yeah I mean, animals are a real part of it out there.

[872] There was also a guy who was jogging along, minding his own business, and a hawk came and tried to swoop him, scoop his head.

[873] He had scratches across his whole head from the talons of this hawk.

[874] What?

[875] Pull up that picture.

[876] Yeah.

[877] What?

[878] Like the hawk thought he was food, so he was going to grab him and bring him to the nest.

[879] What a gangster hawk.

[880] How little is this guy?

[881] I don't think that little.

[882] I think like an adult, I'm pretty sure.

[883] If a hawk landed on my head, I guarantee you I'm going to have a stuffed hawk in here.

[884] Right here.

[885] I'm going to have that fucker.

[886] And I'm going to have like a plastic hand around a scrawny neck.

[887] Fucking assholes.

[888] I have hawks in my yard all the time.

[889] They're trying to get my chickens.

[890] Oh, they're so big.

[891] I think they did get one.

[892] I think they got one.

[893] One of them went missing.

[894] We're trying to figure out what happened.

[895] Look at that.

[896] Wow, that is crazy.

[897] That's from the thumb talon, whatever.

[898] Escaped Harris Hawks are attacking runners and walkers, prompting fears they're now breeding in Britain.

[899] Oh, this is in England.

[900] Wow.

[901] That is a huge gash.

[902] For people who are just listening, we're talking like 11, 12 -inch gashes on this guy's head.

[903] The whole head.

[904] The whole top of his head is like a track, like train tracks, like two straight lines.

[905] It's kind of a cool scar it's going to make, though.

[906] Beautiful scar, right?

[907] What happened to you?

[908] Gangster shit.

[909] I wonder if he's like, oh, my, this Hulk he's trying to take me away.

[910] Oh, dear.

[911] Hey, someone help me. That's not the hawk.

[912] That one looks too small.

[913] Harris Hawk.

[914] So this is an escaped hawk, they're saying.

[915] So is this a hawk that, like, essentially was a captive hawk, and now they got loose and they don't know how to eat?

[916] They don't know what to do?

[917] And maybe, that's crazy.

[918] Maybe it, like, thought this guy was, uh...

[919] Give it a shot?

[920] I recall hearing what I now know was the bird's wings flapping behind my head.

[921] And then suddenly, just talons.

[922] But other than that, there was no warning.

[923] Jeez.

[924] I thought it was a mugging.

[925] He thought he got mugged.

[926] Wow.

[927] What a crazy bird.

[928] The bird thinking he could kill a person.

[929] Yeah.

[930] That is a gangster bird, man. escaped bird attacking humans yeah go back to that again real quick what they say whilst the attacker was it originally thought to be a buzzard known to become aggressive during the nesting season experts pointed out the native birds of prey seldom strike in the summer months wow Harris hawk yeah yeah those things they're the claws and those we were just talking about eagles the other day like imagine like something that can swoop down and grab a salmon out of a river and fly off with it.

[931] Yeah.

[932] These ridiculous things they have at the bottom of their feet.

[933] Can't they even pick up, like, small deer and stuff?

[934] Yeah, yeah, they can.

[935] Yeah, the Mongols use them to attack wolves.

[936] They have trained eagles that they swoop down and they grab wolves and they kill the wolves.

[937] They drop them from a pie?

[938] No, they just kill them.

[939] They kill them with their talons.

[940] Their talons are so strong.

[941] It's like knives.

[942] They just grab a whole their neck and stick the town.

[943] into the side of the neck.

[944] It's crazy to watch.

[945] I mean, these aren't big wolves.

[946] These are like coyote -sized wolves.

[947] Yeah.

[948] But it's still, it's like, it's so weird to watch.

[949] It's like this thing just trying to run away.

[950] And this eagle just knows what to do, swoops down, just grabs them by the neck and wrestles them to the ground.

[951] And then the Mongolian guys come over here.

[952] You can watch it here.

[953] So they're trained.

[954] See, they have those little strings coming off the back of the legs.

[955] And there's wolves like, fuck.

[956] Fuck!

[957] And so this dude just releases the eagle.

[958] eagle swoops down and just death from the sky just jacks them it's crazy to think that this was somehow they trained these things to do this too and then they would you know kill the wolves and take their skins i guess they like make jackets or something the wolf knows what's going on too and look at he's so much bigger than the eagle that's what's really crazy because what does an eagle weigh like 20 pounds or something like that wolf should have ran a little faster there at the end he's tired yeah i mean it's crazy Look how bad ass they are, though.

[959] Those are huge birds.

[960] Huge.

[961] But even a huge bird is a fraction of the size of that wolf.

[962] Yeah.

[963] And they just holding them down.

[964] That wingspan freaks it out.

[965] Yeah.

[966] I just don't think, I think it's just a superior murdering machine.

[967] You know what I mean?

[968] I think when it comes to nature's killers, eagles are just far superior to a wolf.

[969] I mean, they have air on their side.

[970] They swoop down on you.

[971] Which is cool.

[972] Yeah, they move through 3D space.

[973] You know, it's just a whole.

[974] whole different thing yeah so do they ever get your chickens uh i know that a hawk has yeah and well we know i saw a coyote get one i saw a coyote run over the fence with a chicken in his mouth i was sitting with my wife and my kids and we were playing some game like monopoly or some shit and we look out the window and i see a coyote running through the backyard with a chicken in his mouth and he just hops and i opened the door just to go you fucker like that he was gone you got him yeah It was a very complicated scenario because he actually had talked my dog into helping him.

[975] No way.

[976] Yeah, I think it was a girl.

[977] I think it was I'm pretty sure it was a girl coyote.

[978] And my dog, yeah, my dog thought it was, I have a big, dumb dog.

[979] And he thought that this is my friend.

[980] Yeah.

[981] He wants to play with the chickens.

[982] I'll help him.

[983] Because the dog can, my dog is, he's a nice dog to people, but he's not nice to chickens.

[984] Okay.

[985] a few chickens in the past he's got i think so far he's killed six of my chickens oh wow yeah he broke into uh the fence recently i don't think i talked about this we were outside um uh and we uh had heard something we heard these chickens like squawking and making up all this noise and i look and i'm like how was the dog in the chicken coop he clawed through the chicken wire he's a mastiff he's a big master.

[986] Oh, wow.

[987] Those are a huge dog.

[988] Smash the chicken wire enough so he could get his body in there and just went on a rampage and just was murdering chickens.

[989] Oops.

[990] It's just their instinct, you know?

[991] Yeah.

[992] They just can't help it.

[993] And like a friend of mine said that he had a dog that did that once that killed his chicken and he took the dead chicken and tied it on the dog's head and then chained the dog to a tree and left him there for a couple hours.

[994] He said, it worked.

[995] He said the dog never fucked with the chickens again.

[996] So are you going to try that?

[997] No. No. I think my golden retriever, he's a sweetheart, and I think he's killed a chicken, too.

[998] I don't know if he killed it, but he showed up with one in his mouth and it was dead.

[999] And we're trying to figure out if he killed it or if it was already dead, because sometimes they just die.

[1000] Yeah.

[1001] Because we don't like to think he's a kill because he's still a baby.

[1002] but he might have died too.

[1003] Dogs, just dogs and chickens.

[1004] It's like, you know, it's a classic relationship.

[1005] I don't know how we got on this.

[1006] Oh, runners, animals.

[1007] Yeah, sorry about that.

[1008] Being worried about.

[1009] So do you ever, like, bring any sort of first aid with you?

[1010] Do you bring, like, a backpack when you're running?

[1011] It depends on where I'm going or how long I intend to be out there.

[1012] So, like, when you're running Moab, do you bring any sort of a backpack or anything?

[1013] Yeah, I had a pack that was carrying.

[1014] water and like an emergency blanket and jacket just in case and food.

[1015] So when you have an emergency blanket, is that one of those thin, like sort of silvery sort of blankets?

[1016] Yeah, just folds down into a very small square.

[1017] Do those really work?

[1018] Yeah, I mean, fortunately, I've never had to use one in an actual emergency, but you know how after marathons they give everyone like a tinfoil wrap, basically?

[1019] I think it's the same thing where it's like holding in your body heat.

[1020] So if worse comes to worse out there, you've got something to help you get through.

[1021] Better than nothing.

[1022] Right, right.

[1023] Now, when you're running and you're drinking water, do you have bottles of water or do you have like a hydration bladder and a tube?

[1024] Like, how do you run it?

[1025] The pack I was using has bottles, so it can carry, I mean, at one point I had two and a half liters of water with me for like a really hot long section.

[1026] And how long did that last you for?

[1027] I made it last for 20 miles.

[1028] That's crazy.

[1029] That's it?

[1030] Two and a half liters seems like a tiny amount of water to drink for 20 miles of running.

[1031] God, that's crazy.

[1032] And it was a really hot exposed day out there in the desert.

[1033] Have you ever been running?

[1034] Like Cam was telling me that he did the Bigfoot 200 and there was a stretch where he miscalculated and he realized the terrain and he didn't have any water.

[1035] And he had to go for several hours with no water.

[1036] Have you ever done that before?

[1037] That's awful.

[1038] I don't know if I've ever.

[1039] ever had to go several hours but yeah I've gotten to the point where it's like miles and miles away still and you're fresh out of water that's got to suck yeah how much of a performance hit does that take I think it depends like also it can take a big toll out of you mentally if you stress out about it too much but if you're just like well this is the situation the only solution is to get to the next aid station, then I think it is just a blip on the, on the radar.

[1040] That's an interesting approach.

[1041] And that's what I wanted to get to this about how it transcends, how your, this, your mental fortitude, sort of like, how it manifests itself in everyday life.

[1042] Like, your ability to just deal with shit is so superior to the average person.

[1043] Like, when you hear people complain, like, Starbucks is out of fucking venti, latte is is such bullshit.

[1044] You know, like, no more caramel macchiados.

[1045] Like, normal everyday complaining stuff is, like, what a lot of people sort of engage in, sort of a recreation that people have to complain about nonsense, right?

[1046] Yeah.

[1047] Well, how do you deal with that?

[1048] To each their own, I think, I mean, if that venty latte was going to make your day, I'm really sorry that they're out, you know?

[1049] But there's got to be a part of you that realizes, like, How, I mean, so many people are just really very weak in terms of, like, their ability to overcome adversity, you know?

[1050] I think they just, like, aren't giving themselves enough credit.

[1051] And I think we're all capable of way more than we think we are if we just, like, jump in and go for it, whatever it is.

[1052] Right.

[1053] And do you think, like, you realize that more, the more you push yourself?

[1054] Like, do you understand yourself more after running 238 miles?

[1055] else?

[1056] I'm trying to.

[1057] Yeah, I'm trying to find my physical boundary.

[1058] I'm trying to find the mental boundary.

[1059] Like, where can I take this?

[1060] And trying to learn about myself and about the world and meet people along the way.

[1061] But I got to think that that must give you immense confidence to overcome bound obstacles, boundaries, like the fact that you can do what you can do, that you can just put your mind into this state of just dealing with the constant growth.

[1062] I mean, you're falling asleep, you're half blind.

[1063] I mean, it's like this more than half blind, 98 % blind.

[1064] I mean, that has got to sort of transcend.

[1065] I mean, it really must sort of make its way into your everyday life in a very weird way.

[1066] I hope so.

[1067] What do you do for regular stuff?

[1068] Like, do you have a regular job?

[1069] I taught middle school and high school science for nine years, and just this past year I stepped out of the classroom.

[1070] So now you just run?

[1071] So currently I'm running.

[1072] Wow.

[1073] So how does that work?

[1074] You have sponsors or something like that?

[1075] Yep, I have some sponsors and a really supportive husband and my school has been super supportive through all of this.

[1076] And they were like, go see what you can do without the 7 a .m. to 7 p .m. shift, you know, like see what you can make of this and let us know if you want back in teaching ever.

[1077] Did they freak out when you won the Moab?

[1078] Well, one of the guys I teach with, I Blom, was actually one of my Pacers out there.

[1079] So he has been really supportive and awesome to train with.

[1080] And I haven't actually talked to anyone else at the school since then.

[1081] But they've got to be incredibly proud.

[1082] I mean, to say, hey, go see what you can do.

[1083] Yeah.

[1084] And they're like, hey, look what I can do.

[1085] Yeah.

[1086] Here it is.

[1087] Pretty crazy.

[1088] And so is this your goal now?

[1089] wants to just run?

[1090] Yeah, for the time being, I want to just see what can happen if I really dedicate more time and energy to training and traveling for races and all of the pieces that go with that.

[1091] And what is a woman's name that put on the Moab?

[1092] Candice Bert.

[1093] Candice.

[1094] And does Candice, like, look at, I know, is she involved in Bigfoot as well?

[1095] Yeah, yeah.

[1096] All those 200 -mile races are hers.

[1097] But does she look at the 240 now and look at you and go, hmm, Courtney might be able to do.

[1098] 320.

[1099] She just the other day suggested on the like, there's a Moab 200 Facebook group and she put it out there.

[1100] What about a 500 mile race?

[1101] Jesus!

[1102] Christ!

[1103] Courtney!

[1104] No, that's Candice.

[1105] She suggested.

[1106] I know, but Courtney, don't do that.

[1107] I mean, why not, man?

[1108] You're a psycho.

[1109] Candice is a crazy person.

[1110] Does she run these races too?

[1111] Well, unfortunately, when you're race directing, she can't run the 200 -miler's, but she...

[1112] Oh, unfortunately.

[1113] I wish I could.

[1114] I wish I could run with you, Courtney.

[1115] She does a lot of 100 -mile races and, yeah, is a great runner.

[1116] But 500, that is next level.

[1117] What is the longest anybody has ever run?

[1118] Like, what's the longest race ever?

[1119] Is it the Moab?

[1120] No, let's see.

[1121] So there's races that are called six -day races, and it's just on a small loop and you try and go as far as you can do that loop as many times as you can in six days.

[1122] And I'm not actually sure what the record for that is, but I'm certain that it's higher than 238.

[1123] So when she's talking about a 500, what?

[1124] 3 ,100 mile race.

[1125] Oh, there you go.

[1126] I'm pretty sure it's a relay race, but that's what it says.

[1127] Shreichimmoi Marathon Team.

[1128] Look up on six -day world record.

[1129] Welcome to the 21st annual self -transcendence 3 ,100 -mile race.

[1130] You know why they say the self -transcendance?

[1131] Because after 2 ,000 miles, you run with Jesus.

[1132] He's literally with you.

[1133] You transcend.

[1134] You're running on air.

[1135] That's crazy.

[1136] 52 days.

[1137] 52 days.

[1138] They must log an average of 59 .6 miles a day.

[1139] That's fucking...

[1140] Wait, I think this is the one in New York.

[1141] It's just around like a city block in New York or something.

[1142] The runners begin 6 .8.

[1143] a .m. and run for extended periods throughout the day, taking breaks as needed.

[1144] If they want to, they can continue as late as 12 midnight when the course closes for the night.

[1145] Wow.

[1146] Ooh.

[1147] That's pretty cool.

[1148] Boy.

[1149] Now, the community has got to be a very strange community of like iron -willed human beings.

[1150] Oh, it's such a special community.

[1151] I'd imagine.

[1152] Yeah.

[1153] Like this, the character of those people.

[1154] Well, and everyone's got a story and they're all out there battling their own battle you know it's yeah and it's cool to be at the finish line then and celebrate together and god swap war stories you know i'm sure i mean it's just like to find other human beings that are capable of putting their mind and their body into that position yeah and want to do that like choose actively choose to do that and look forward to it and look forward to the next one pay money to do it how much does it cost uh for this one i've maybe seven, eight hundred.

[1155] Did you win anything?

[1156] No. Jesus Christ, we gotta get you a prize.

[1157] She should have a prize.

[1158] You should win something.

[1159] Metal or something.

[1160] This is crazy.

[1161] Think about how much they win when they fucking play golf.

[1162] Oh, you knocked a ball in the hole.

[1163] Way to go, fatso.

[1164] That doesn't impress me at all.

[1165] What you do is like I just feel like it's massively underrated in terms of like society's appreciation of it.

[1166] Yeah, well, a lot of people don't even know these are happening.

[1167] Like, ultramarathons are a very alien thing to a lot of people.

[1168] I wasn't aware of them.

[1169] Yeah.

[1170] Until I became friends with Cam.

[1171] I didn't know anybody who was that crazy.

[1172] So what mileage are you running now?

[1173] I only run a couple.

[1174] I run like three.

[1175] The most I run is like four.

[1176] I mean, they have even half marathons on trails.

[1177] That would be cool for you to just check out.

[1178] Trail running is so awesome.

[1179] It is.

[1180] Well, mostly what I'm doing is, like, Super steep hills.

[1181] Okay.

[1182] That's what I like to do.

[1183] I do a lot of hill sprints.

[1184] Yeah.

[1185] But it's made a big difference in like martial arts training.

[1186] I've only been doing it for like six, eight months, maybe.

[1187] No. January, I think I started running.

[1188] So it's more than that.

[1189] Incorporated with all sorts of other training.

[1190] It just makes a huge difference in my wind.

[1191] You know, like, and I never used to, I used to feel like my, the thought, like, I guess it was just laziness or I just didn't want to try it, but a lot of people's thought process is, well, if you do cardio, like, specific to your athletic event.

[1192] right like if you do jiu -jitsu just do jiu -jitsu just do a lot of rolling do a lot of sparring and your cardio will go up if you do kickboxing just do a lot kickboxing hit the bag a lot and your cardio will go up it will but i maintain that just it's just sheer cardio from running is a different thing and that your capacity for cardio is expanded especially when you do hill running or sprints yeah you think so yeah i would think so now if you do you do anything else other than running Are you involved in any other athletics?

[1193] Right now, no. I played on some adult co -ed volleyball and soccer teams recently, but otherwise just running right now.

[1194] Do you have a long -term goal, or is there anything that you'd like to accomplish?

[1195] I don't know.

[1196] I just want to keep pushing the limits and finding out what's possible, going a little bit faster or a little bit further, and getting to see parts of the world is what I'm hoping for in this.

[1197] next year.

[1198] How many other women win these things?

[1199] There's been, in the past couple of years, there's been, it's becoming a little more frequent to have a female overall winner.

[1200] Yeah, because for a long time, that wasn't the case, right?

[1201] Why do you think that is?

[1202] I'm not sure.

[1203] I don't know if, like, the confidence or the time women are putting in or, like, just figuring out nutrition stuff.

[1204] I don't know.

[1205] I don't know what's been the, like, thing that switched it over, but it's not as absurd as it used to be for sure.

[1206] Well, what you do is absurd.

[1207] I mean, that's absurd to not just win, but to win by such an enormous margin.

[1208] You know, like, what an inspiration you must be to other young runners that are coming up right now and just know that that's possible, that someone can do that.

[1209] Yeah, I mean, I hope, yeah, to inspire future generations, my niece.

[1210] Like, I mean, that'd be cool.

[1211] I don't know if it's happening, but...

[1212] Oh, it's 100 % happening.

[1213] Keep trying.

[1214] I have no desire to do it, and you've inspired me. Oh, thank you.

[1215] But you know the story of the four -minute mile, right?

[1216] Yeah.

[1217] That before.

[1218] Who was the guy that?

[1219] Jesse Elton.

[1220] No, I'm not got that guy.

[1221] It was before that.

[1222] Who was it that broke the four -minute mile?

[1223] Was it like Allen?

[1224] I forget his name.

[1225] I was going to say Jesse Olin, but it's not him.

[1226] But whoever the gentleman was that broke the four -minute mile, they used to literally think it was physically impossible.

[1227] Roger Bannister.

[1228] Thank you.

[1229] But once he broke it, then a bunch of people broke it afterwards, so they realized it could be possible.

[1230] You know, which is another one of the reasons why when someone says, oh, if you run a marathon, you have to take six months off, like, shut the fuck up.

[1231] Nobody knows what people can do yet.

[1232] I mean, it's really true that there's, there are boundaries to human performance that have not been explored yet.

[1233] I agree.

[1234] Absolutely.

[1235] Yeah.

[1236] So people like you, you're like at the tip of the spirit of this shit.

[1237] You realize that?

[1238] No. Yeah, you are.

[1239] You are.

[1240] I'm telling you, you are.

[1241] Like in human history, I don't think there's a whole lot of people.

[1242] that can ever say that they've run 238 miles.

[1243] I bet there's maybe one or two other people that have ever walked the face of the earth that have done what you did.

[1244] They might not have ever.

[1245] I mean, maybe this is like some crazy aborigine or some indigenous people that we don't know about someone who lives in Mexico in the mountains or something like that who's done something crazy like this.

[1246] But for the most part, I mean, how many people have ever done what you did?

[1247] I think there were 95 finishers at the Lab 240.

[1248] But how many people have done it in less than 58 hours.

[1249] This year, just one, but I think it'll keep falling.

[1250] That's my thought process.

[1251] And do you think that there's anything left?

[1252] Do you think you left anything on the table as far as like when you cross the line, was there a thought like, I could have done that maybe like five minutes faster?

[1253] I mean, sure, yeah.

[1254] You can cut out time at aid stations.

[1255] You can do sections more efficiently.

[1256] So my hope is there's always room for improvement And if I went back next year I would absolutely be trying to push the pace And drop my time What would you try to get it under 50?

[1257] I don't know I think I'd just have to see how the day was unfolding And like what sort of obstacles were coming up That if you did it under 50 I guarantee some people would just throw themselves off the side of the cliff I'm like Fuck this Fuck this It'd be like me to play a basketball against Jordan And they're like, I can't do this anymore.

[1258] You know, I mean.

[1259] I don't know.

[1260] Seven, that'd be almost eight hours cut off.

[1261] And I don't think I can, that'd be a lot.

[1262] Yeah.

[1263] But why not aim high?

[1264] Talk to the person that came in second.

[1265] If you didn't exist, that person who came in second would be a bad motherfucker.

[1266] He'd be like, look, I just beat everybody's ass in this crazy race.

[1267] He still is.

[1268] Eh, he's not so much.

[1269] He's a little bummed out right now.

[1270] He's sitting at home going, fucking 10 hours.

[1271] I bet that guy, like, gets a good.

[1272] night's sleep and, you know, brushes his teeth and forgets about it for a little while, gets in his car, and then he's in traffic and then the light turns red.

[1273] He goes, fucking ten hours!

[1274] How'd she beat me by ten hours?

[1275] I guarantee you.

[1276] I hope you're not thinking that, Sean.

[1277] I know you're thinking it, Sean.

[1278] I would be thinking too.

[1279] Good news, Sean.

[1280] You beat me by ten days.

[1281] So think of it in terms of, well, it's, you know, you're the high water mark now, I guess.

[1282] I mean, I can't imagine there's any other way to put it.

[1283] You won the first one, but you won it by such a ridiculous margin.

[1284] Yeah, we'll see next year what people are capable of.

[1285] Now, Candice and her crazy idea for 500 miles, are you going to indulge her in this ridiculous quest?

[1286] Yeah, I mean, yeah, she threw it out there.

[1287] She had like immediately positive response from everyone in this, in this group.

[1288] Of course, a bunch of fucking psychos.

[1289] I know.

[1290] yeah and she was saying maybe 2019 she'd be able to pull it together oh why why does she need that much time i mean the logistics involved and then there's like permitting you have to do and where would you where would she have one of these things yeah she didn't say how about the surface of the sun yeah or the moon like let's all go to the moon no it's too easy it's cold oh yeah it's not enough gravity you'd be like cheating it's only like one sixth yeah 16, Earth's gravity.

[1291] Yeah, I mean, I just, I wonder, like, what is the limit?

[1292] Like, what is the limit of a human?

[1293] Yeah.

[1294] In terms of, like, I mean, you said that when it was over, you were wrecked for days.

[1295] You couldn't sleep.

[1296] You really weren't eating well.

[1297] But when you cross that finish line, and if someone said, okay, the real finish line is another 80 miles, you just would have kept going.

[1298] Yeah.

[1299] Yeah, if that was real and I had 80 more miles to cover, I would figure out how to do it.

[1300] What if it was 180?

[1301] How many more miles did you think you have left in your body?

[1302] I mean, is there a point where your just tissue would just give out?

[1303] Maybe, yeah.

[1304] But like for this 500 -mile race, she's suggesting there's like a, she's thinking a 10 -day cutoff or whatever.

[1305] Oh, God.

[1306] You know, so then you just got to build in some good sleep.

[1307] Yeah.

[1308] Sorry, Candace, if we weren't supposed to talk about this yet, I don't know.

[1309] We're talking about, Candace.

[1310] We're talking about it.

[1311] That's, like, 10 days is not, well, I guess, but no one's going to do that, right?

[1312] You're just going to keep running.

[1313] No one's going to just go 50 miles a day, right?

[1314] You could, like, you could build that into your plan.

[1315] Yeah, but no one's going to do that.

[1316] I mean, for this one, people had sleep plans.

[1317] There's aid stations out there that have, like, cots and blankets, and you can stay.

[1318] They say for six hours they'll let you sleep there before they boot you to the course.

[1319] Six hours?

[1320] Six hours.

[1321] They'll get up, lazy.

[1322] Yeah.

[1323] I don't know if they just want to keep turning them over in case there's a need for more.

[1324] Oh, that makes sense.

[1325] So they wake you up at six hours?

[1326] Apparently, I didn't have, I don't have any personal experience doing it.

[1327] What did you get off the cot and just lay right on the ground right next to the cot?

[1328] Now what?

[1329] Yeah.

[1330] Look, I'm not getting up.

[1331] I'm going to lay right here.

[1332] It's over.

[1333] Yeah, so I guess for this one, they'd have to have sleep stations.

[1334] out there and I mean I think what I'm getting at is the fascinating part of this to me is that the boundaries are at least somewhat unexplored because what you did was in a way very revolutionary like what you did is like you just you just flip the whole thing on its head by coming in 10 hours and 20 plus miles ahead of the second place person like now people are going to go okay Well, what's possible?

[1335] Because maybe there's someone out there that could do that to Courtney.

[1336] Yeah, absolutely there is.

[1337] Well, I haven't met them.

[1338] Do they exist?

[1339] I don't know.

[1340] That's the question.

[1341] That's the cool part is if people just keep wondering that, then we'll be breaking down all sorts of barriers.

[1342] That's what's fascinating about it to me as a completely outside observer is that what you're doing is you're essentially an un -exemptive.

[1343] explored territory and even the training protocols right like your protocol's different than cams and i'm sure that sean guy's got a different thing that he did and everybody's got their own little methods yeah and wasn't there a guy that was leading for a while but he had a he had a bail at like 150 miles he couldn't take it anymore yep so i was going back and forth for a while with a guy until maybe yeah i think it was 150 miles what happened to him i'm not sure i think his legs or his quads or something was given out.

[1344] I'm not positive.

[1345] I didn't get to have a conversation with him.

[1346] And does that happen often where someone just comes out of the gate too hard or maybe like he's trying to keep up with you and he outpaced himself?

[1347] Yeah.

[1348] Unfortunately, they're called DNFs or did not finish and those happen pretty frequently.

[1349] What's the percentage if you had to guess?

[1350] It was 100 plus people entered, right?

[1351] Yeah.

[1352] I think this the 200, the Moab race had way less than a normal, like, 100 -mile race, for example.

[1353] Way left DNFs?

[1354] Way less people dropped out, yeah.

[1355] Wow, interesting.

[1356] I don't know if it's like the mindset going in.

[1357] You just know it's this big adventure and you're going to be out there for multiple days, so you're ready for that versus a 100 -mile race.

[1358] I mean, people are breaking down barriers with how fast those can be done.

[1359] Yeah.

[1360] And so then you're going out guns blazing from the start, and then you've got a higher potential for a blow -up that just can't be fixed.

[1361] Mm -hmm.

[1362] So is that what happens?

[1363] Like your muscles just break down.

[1364] You get, what is it called autolysis or something like that, your muscles start eating themselves?

[1365] Yeah, and just like no response.

[1366] You're getting nothing back from them.

[1367] Yeah, and what is that thing that those CrossFit people get?

[1368] Robdomylosis.

[1369] Oh, yeah.

[1370] Yeah.

[1371] Do you ever get that?

[1372] I've never gotten it.

[1373] Rabdo?

[1374] Rabdo.

[1375] Rabdo.

[1376] Rabdomylosis.

[1377] Yeah.

[1378] Something about like your muscles are breaking down into your bloodstream or, yeah.

[1379] Yeah.

[1380] That's not good.

[1381] It's supposed to be horrible.

[1382] Yeah.

[1383] And apparently, like, way more common today than muscle breakdown damages the kidneys.

[1384] Apparently, it's way more common today because of these CrossFit classes and, you know, people pushing themselves.

[1385] And that's the thing is, like, it's not a matter of what's possible.

[1386] Like, hey, Courtney ran 248 miles.

[1387] I can run it too.

[1388] Well, yeah, maybe.

[1389] But you're going to have to build up to that stupid.

[1390] Like, you can't just do it tomorrow.

[1391] You know, that's kind of the crazy thing about all this, right?

[1392] It's that, like, you're building, like, a mountain one Lego block at a time, right?

[1393] And someone who's like, oh, well, her mountain's, like, 5 ,000 feet high, I'll just fucking build a fight.

[1394] No, it takes a long -ass time to build that mountain, right?

[1395] Yeah, I mean, for me, I've been training for this long stuff for seven years now, so I wasn't, like, instantly successful at the 100 -mile distance.

[1396] and it's taken a lot of training and a lot of just learning along the way.

[1397] Now, because of the fact that you ran this 238 -mile race at a certain pace and you did so phenomenally, do you feel like your body is now going to be stronger for the next one?

[1398] I hope so.

[1399] I hope if I treat it nicely for a little bit here and let it fully recover, that then I can try and springboard off of this for the next thing.

[1400] Plenty nachos, plenty of beer.

[1401] Yeah, yeah.

[1402] Just load it in.

[1403] Now, do you do any other kind of training?

[1404] Do you do any weightlifting or yoga or anything else?

[1405] Do you incorporate anything else?

[1406] Yeah, I go to the gym.

[1407] Mostly at the gym, I do core work and, like, throw around a couple five -pound dumbbells.

[1408] But otherwise, no, I think yoga would be a great thing to incorporate.

[1409] I just haven't gotten motivated to head to those classes yet.

[1410] That's so funny.

[1411] Do you stretch?

[1412] Sometimes.

[1413] Yeah.

[1414] But wouldn't you, like, think that that would be a good thing to do?

[1415] Oh, absolutely.

[1416] Why don't you do it?

[1417] I mean, I try, yeah.

[1418] It's just not, like, incorporated into my normal routine very well.

[1419] Do you think maybe, like, things along those lines, like maybe yoga or weightlifting or stretching would maybe possibly advance you to another level?

[1420] Yeah, I mean, I might as well try and see.

[1421] Yeah, but that's what I'm thinking.

[1422] I'm like you're so far ahead now that I would imagine it's a matter of like what could possibly make you better like you're obviously to win by that extreme of margin like I would think obviously what you're doing now is amazing like what if it ain't broke don't fix it right but are you at your very best um I hope not I'm gonna keep trying to strive for higher.

[1423] Just keep putting Lego blocks up.

[1424] Keep building a higher and higher mountain.

[1425] I love Legos.

[1426] Who doesn't?

[1427] But it seems like it's a fairly good analogy, you know, that it seems that it's a slow, arduous process of improvement.

[1428] And it takes discipline and constant focus and constant attention and just time in.

[1429] Yeah.

[1430] And enjoying it, too.

[1431] Like, that's a huge part of it for me as well as I'm loving it still.

[1432] So, you think that's part of the success as well, the enthusiasm that you have?

[1433] I think it's got to be.

[1434] If you're out there grinding every day for hours and you're just hating it, I mean, then you won't be jazzed to go to any starting line.

[1435] Yeah, well, that's like sort of what you were saying about the water thing, that if you're low on water, like, don't just, don't let it freak you out.

[1436] Yeah.

[1437] Just deal with it and it'll be less.

[1438] Like, that really does apply to life, doesn't it?

[1439] I think so, yeah.

[1440] Yeah.

[1441] No matter if you run or not.

[1442] I think just figuring out how to deal with situations like that without freaking out and having to wreck your day is huge.

[1443] Now, what about runners high?

[1444] How high do you get when you're running like that?

[1445] Is that real?

[1446] Yeah, I mean.

[1447] I don't get it.

[1448] I just get tired.

[1449] Yeah.

[1450] Do you get runners high?

[1451] Sure, yeah.

[1452] I mean, when you're out there, like, cruising along some beautiful trails and you're in an amazing place.

[1453] and you feel really good, and maybe you're with people or maybe not, it definitely can feel really awesome.

[1454] But people, like, sort of chase that down, right?

[1455] There's some people that, that is, like, the only way they stay sane.

[1456] They've got to go out and get their medicine.

[1457] Yeah, yeah.

[1458] Like, getting that run in.

[1459] Do you have, like, an end goal?

[1460] Like, do you look at, like, this running career and go, okay, I'm going to get to be X amount of age, I want to accomplish a certain amount of things, and then stop, or is it just life?

[1461] Yeah, life.

[1462] It's just life.

[1463] Yeah, the cool part about this running stuff, I mean, you alluded to it earlier, but people in their 40s and 50s and 60s, they're doing these races and still enjoying the trails.

[1464] And I hope to still be doing it in 20 years and 30 years.

[1465] My friend Ari, his dad, who is a Holocaust survivor, who's 80 years old, just for ran a marathon in six hours.

[1466] Wow.

[1467] Fucking stud.

[1468] That's amazing.

[1469] Stud.

[1470] I mean, come on.

[1471] I can't run a marathon six hours.

[1472] I know Burke can't, that fat fuck.

[1473] Sorry, Brett, I love you.

[1474] Inside joke.

[1475] That's a total inside joke.

[1476] But Ari's dad is like, how does one do that?

[1477] How's an 80 -year -old man run a marathon in six hours?

[1478] That's insane.

[1479] That's cool.

[1480] Yeah, it's just grinding.

[1481] Yeah.

[1482] I mean, what is the oldest competitor that you guys had in that race?

[1483] 69, I think.

[1484] Wow.

[1485] How'd they do?

[1486] He finished.

[1487] Yeah.

[1488] It's amazing.

[1489] 69 years old and he runs 238 miles.

[1490] I think he had something, he's 69 years old and it was like his 68th 100 plus mile race he'd ever done or something crazy like that.

[1491] At that age, you're on borrowed time.

[1492] You know, why not just burn that candle with a goddamn blowtorch?

[1493] Fuck the wick.

[1494] Just throw that candle in a volcano.

[1495] Yeah, or maybe he's making more time.

[1496] He might be.

[1497] Could be.

[1498] Rhonda Patrick, Dr. Rhonda Patrick, who's this brilliant moment of fat on the podcast a few times, posted something on Twitter just a couple of days ago that rigorous physical exercise can expand, lowers the, the biological age by as much as nine years.

[1499] Wow.

[1500] Was it, see what you find that?

[1501] Yeah, some crazy study they did on extend.

[1502] I mean, it just makes sense.

[1503] Any rigorous exercise.

[1504] Yeah, here it goes.

[1505] Physical exercise reduces cancer incidences, lower the race of recurrence, inhibits tumor growth.

[1506] No, it's one that I retweeted.

[1507] Here it is.

[1508] High intensity exercise, delayed biological aging by nine years as measured by telomere length.

[1509] Wow.

[1510] This is like scientific analysis of your telomeres.

[1511] That's amazing.

[1512] So like what, nine years every time you...

[1513] No, no, no, but I mean, like people who are rigorously exercising.

[1514] So say if you're 39, your telomeres, results showed that regular activity accounted for significantly longer telomeres in U .S. adults.

[1515] The longer telomeres found in active adults accounted for nine years of reduced cellular aging.

[1516] Regular physical activity reduces disease risk, possibly due to the preservation of telomeres.

[1517] Wow.

[1518] So that's an interesting thing because for the long time, telomeres are nucleoprotein caps positioned at the end of chromosomes, and aging causes telomeres to shorten significantly and results in gradual cell deterioration.

[1519] And that makes sense because you see people that don't exercise and they get older and they look like shit as opposed to someone who does exercise and they'll stand right next to them.

[1520] you go, whoa, those two people at the same age?

[1521] Like, that's crazy.

[1522] That's cool that they're studying that.

[1523] That'll be interesting to see, like, how that unfolds as they learn more.

[1524] It makes sense, right?

[1525] You're requiring more of your body.

[1526] Your body has to maintain this much higher work rate than the average person.

[1527] Right.

[1528] Yeah.

[1529] That's cool.

[1530] How much sleep do you get at night, a normal night?

[1531] Normal, probably seven or eight hours.

[1532] It's just normal stuff.

[1533] Yeah.

[1534] Like, you're not doing anything crazy.

[1535] No. Other than the actual accomplishment physically.

[1536] Like, you're not doing anything crazy outside of it.

[1537] I don't think so.

[1538] Do you get massages?

[1539] No. No?

[1540] Really?

[1541] Do you wear those crazy pants?

[1542] What are those crazy pants that smush your legs?

[1543] What are those?

[1544] I sent those to cam.

[1545] They sent them to me and I sent them to him.

[1546] The compression tights?

[1547] No, no, no, no, no. They, like, massage your legs.

[1548] You like, you put them, oh, I'll have them send them to you.

[1549] They send them to me. I didn't even ask for them.

[1550] Are they, like, the big boots?

[1551] Yeah, they're pants.

[1552] Norma Tech.

[1553] Yeah, Norma Tech.

[1554] They're supposed to be.

[1555] shit no yeah pull up a video of that normatech system they sent it to me and i sent it to cam see if you find cams uh instagram video i think he's got him using it but you climb into that thing and it massages your leg it says pulse leg recovery system people swear by these things is it water filled or is that air no it's good question good question doesn't show up um but uh that could be cool if it was a cold water oh right that would feel good at that have you done done cryotherapy no oh you want to do it today place right down the street what is what does that involve exactly it involves 240 degrees below zero for three minutes oh geez hey stand in there it's awesome yeah come out you feel fantastic huh if you want to do it we could do it there he is oh that's cool so that's him at a place doing it um but i he has one at home now that i sent him they sent me one i didn't even ask for i don't know how they got my address or anything they just sent me a norm attack I'm like, okay.

[1556] And then I sat and my wife's like, what are you getting there with this?

[1557] I was just send it to Cam.

[1558] He'll use it.

[1559] He uses it.

[1560] But you didn't, did you tried it?

[1561] No. Oh, no. I see a lot of athletes using it too.

[1562] Like, LeBron James uses it, like after training.

[1563] It looks badass.

[1564] I mean, there's all these different methods of recovery, but Courtney don't need shit.

[1565] Go ahead, bitches.

[1566] You guys keep using it.

[1567] When you were running the long, like the long, did you listen to like a certain playlist over and over and over again?

[1568] Like, do you hate certain songs now that you listen to them for 60 hours straight or?

[1569] Were you no headphones and...

[1570] No, I use music occasionally.

[1571] I didn't use it for the entire thing.

[1572] I probably did a couple hours with music the first day and maybe a couple hours of music the second day just to like...

[1573] Reboast.

[1574] Or your iPod, I mean.

[1575] Yeah.

[1576] Hey, I need it back.

[1577] I'm bored.

[1578] Yeah.

[1579] Or like, I want to change it up a bit.

[1580] Cool cool.

[1581] Yeah, so most of the time when you're training, do you use music or no?

[1582] I don't often use music.

[1583] Some days I will.

[1584] but especially out on trails.

[1585] I mean, we just talked about all these animals that can kill you.

[1586] Oh, right.

[1587] Then I'm not using music.

[1588] Right.

[1589] If you don't hear the rattle, that would suck.

[1590] Right.

[1591] Right.

[1592] Or like the wings flapping behind your head.

[1593] Right before you get a scalping.

[1594] Yeah.

[1595] Now, do they test you guys for drugs?

[1596] Occasionally, some races have that.

[1597] This one did not.

[1598] This one didn't.

[1599] So you could be jacked up to the gills.

[1600] How many people you think people you think were juiced up to the gills and they still couldn't beat you?

[1601] At least one.

[1602] At this race, no one was juke.

[1603] Shut up.

[1604] There's someone out there.

[1605] No way.

[1606] There's one person who's on EPO for sure.

[1607] I won't believe it.

[1608] I believe it.

[1609] One person.

[1610] It hasn't, like, none of that stuff is, like, filtering into the trail running scene.

[1611] I mean, there was a zero dollar prize on the line.

[1612] So why is someone going to EPO for that?

[1613] I know what you're saying, and it's very logical.

[1614] You're right.

[1615] But there was actually an article that was written about Silicon Valley CEO, that were taking EPO and doing triathlons and marathon races, and they were taking these endurance drugs, these performance -enhancing drugs, just to try to up their performance in these amateur events.

[1616] That it's a big thing.

[1617] It's a very common thing lately.

[1618] Interesting.

[1619] Yeah.

[1620] I don't even know where the fuck they get it.

[1621] Yeah.

[1622] I don't know what all that would involve, but I like to think better of the...

[1623] of the trail running community and that people are pushing just their natural limits without seeing what the what any sort of drug regimen I would like to think better of them too yeah but I just I'm because of the UFC I've seen so many people oh I bet drug test that I didn't think I was like that guy wow huh I just think did tank Abbott fail no tank Abbott's all beer he was my guy he's your guy he's an animal he's a he was an anywhere any time guy he'd fight anybody he would hop off a bar stool and beat the shit out of people we used to rent like four four of the videos from blockbuster and just marathon it yeah those are great that's before i was involved those were awesome no no eye gouging no fish hooking but there was probably definitely dudes that he fought that were on steroids i mean i don't know if he ever took anything but there's a lot of people that have took things but back then you could take whatever you wanted and there was no drug testing in the early days.

[1624] But, you know, it's like how much does that help?

[1625] And how much is, especially when it comes to trail running.

[1626] Like what you're doing is, first of all, you're living at elevation, which is phenomenal, right?

[1627] Then you're also just constantly putting in the work and grinding, and it's a full -time job now.

[1628] And you're obviously a special athlete when it comes to your ability to focus.

[1629] And you went fucking blind, lady.

[1630] I mean, he went blind, you kept running.

[1631] You know, so there's no drugs out there that can fix that.

[1632] That's true, yeah.

[1633] There's nothing that's going to give you that kind of mental fortitude to push past blindness.

[1634] Right.

[1635] And they're getting better about, I mean, more and more trail races are starting to implement drug testing just to try and, like, cut it out before it even becomes a thing.

[1636] That's smart.

[1637] Yeah.

[1638] Yeah.

[1639] Yeah.

[1640] Yeah, weed out all the performance enhancing stuff.

[1641] But, you know, there's going to be, there's a line, right?

[1642] Like, what do you test for and what don't you test for?

[1643] Right.

[1644] What's okay?

[1645] You know, multivitamins are okay.

[1646] All right.

[1647] Well, what about, you know, there's some weird stuff that people take, you know, some weird stuff from GNC.

[1648] Right.

[1649] You know, we're having issues with that in the UFC where guys take just over -the -counter stuff at GNC, and it turns out it actually has steroids in it.

[1650] Jeez.

[1651] Yeah.

[1652] Apparently it's super common that these, you know, all these muscle buildings, this and stack that a lot of that stuff is they literally put performance enhancing drugs in them which is why they work.

[1653] So then it's just your job as an athlete to know what's on the ingredient list and is it okay?

[1654] Yeah USADA actually has a list of things that have tested positive for steroids and it is crazy.

[1655] I had Jeff Novitsky on who is the head of USADA and now works for the UFC's drug enforcement program and trying to catch people cheating and we pulled up the usada website and your jaw drops you're like what all the stuff thousands of fucking supplements yeah you're buying from just a regular mom and pop vitamin store that's crazy steroids in them yeah but you just take a multivitamin that's it yeah just a women's multivitamin oh women's multi -vitamin yeah yeah is there a difference no I don't know it's probably a marketing scheme probably right yeah and do you think that there's anything that you could take that would possibly enhance your performance in any way I mean is there that's legal yeah I don't think so I mean is there what is there something that other runners rely on is there something that like you hear people talk about like vitamins or supplements or anything no I think more the conversation is always about like the diets and like changing up what you eat or what you what food groups you live in and all of that is more what I hear talk about and I'm just not interested in cutting out carbs or cutting out fat like I want it all so yeah that's one of the guys that ran he ran a hundred miles what is this gentleman's name he's actually emailed me he ran a hundred miles faster than anybody ever and he's on some fat burning diet he's on one of those.

[1656] What is that keto?

[1657] Yeah, he's on a ketogenic diet.

[1658] Okay.

[1659] And his whole, here's name, uh, Zach Bitter.

[1660] Yeah.

[1661] Yeah.

[1662] Yeah.

[1663] You know who that guy is?

[1664] Yeah.

[1665] He is, uh, he, he, he, he won, there it is.

[1666] Yep.

[1667] Yeah.

[1668] He eats almost no carbs.

[1669] Oh, carbs are my favorite.

[1670] Well, you brought up something, too, that I think is really important that really can't be stressed enough is that everybody's body's different.

[1671] Yeah.

[1672] It really is.

[1673] He ran a miles in 11 hours 40 minutes and 55 seconds what a monster yeah that's on a quarter mile track six and a half marathons that is insane 4002 laps on a track Jesus Christ that's awesome yeah he's a really great athlete that's a that's a monster that's insane what's incredible that he can do this with almost no carbs right right you're just not interested in trying that no No, I mean, I don't see a need for it.

[1674] Why should you?

[1675] Yeah.

[1676] I want to, I'm not saying they aren't enjoying life, but the things that I enjoy involve just not worrying about it.

[1677] Yeah.

[1678] Like, do you regulate your sugar intake at all?

[1679] No. I guess if you run as much as you run, you don't have to think about your diet at all, right?

[1680] I don't.

[1681] I mean, maybe that could be one of the Lego pieces that I try and fine -tune, but it's not on my to -do list for the near future yeah i mean again it's like if it ain't broke don't fix it right what if someone like comes creeping up like real close to you Courtney someone's starting like you're you're finishing and they're finishing like a couple minutes behind you and you're like wow i might need to kick in the afterburners is that when you would go to a nutritionist or try to tighten up your diet yeah i mean there's plenty of people who beat me and i um I'm just trying to work harder, like train more, train better, get stronger, especially, like, those core muscles and...

[1682] Like, what kind of exercise do you do for your core?

[1683] Just like the normal planks and things of that nature.

[1684] And, yeah, that doesn't motivate me to change my diet.

[1685] People beating me. No?

[1686] It would take more than that?

[1687] That just is like, okay, you need to train harder.

[1688] You need to, like, put in more work for this.

[1689] But don't you think that the fuel that you use in your body?

[1690] Obviously, me giving you any advice is fucking ridiculous.

[1691] But don't you think that the fuel that goes in your body has some sort of an effect on your performance?

[1692] I mean, it must.

[1693] Surely, surely.

[1694] But I also just want to live life and enjoy it, you know?

[1695] Like, I don't want to be counting how many kale pieces I'm eating.

[1696] Well, it's a good answer.

[1697] I mean, obviously, your enthusiasm is a huge part of your success.

[1698] And your mental state, I think, it can't be argued at all that that's not a huge part of your success.

[1699] And just to keep enjoying your life and living the way you're living, perhaps fuels that mental state.

[1700] Yeah.

[1701] I mean, I'm thinking they're all intertwined, but who knows, you know, what thing could be tweaked to make it better.

[1702] Yeah, well, I don't know.

[1703] You know, I mean, it's all that Jack Nicholson is shining, you know, too much.

[1704] much work, no play, makes Jack a dull boy.

[1705] Right.

[1706] Yeah.

[1707] Is it John or Jack?

[1708] Who was he?

[1709] And the movie was Jack too?

[1710] Johnny.

[1711] Johnny a dull boy, right?

[1712] Yeah, here's Johnny.

[1713] That's right.

[1714] That's right.

[1715] Yeah.

[1716] I mean, I wonder if like maybe the just the ultimate grind of discipline and no reward is just not beneficial to performance, that there's some sort of a balance that must be achieved.

[1717] Yeah.

[1718] Enjoying yourself and being enthusiastic.

[1719] and appreciative and also disciplined.

[1720] Yeah.

[1721] I think a good balance of all that is important.

[1722] Well, listen, Courtney, thank you so much for being here.

[1723] You are an inspiration, and I'm so blown away by what you've managed to do.

[1724] And I can't wait to see what you can do in the future.

[1725] And if you really can run 500 miles, if you do 500 miles, you've got to come back in here.

[1726] We've got to talk about it.

[1727] Oh, you better just be out on the course with a foam finger.

[1728] I'll wear whatever you want.

[1729] I'll wear a chicken outfit like those dudes are so real estate.

[1730] Whatever you need.

[1731] Thank you.

[1732] Thank you for having me. And everybody, tell people how they can get a hold of you on Twitter.

[1733] It's different than Instagram.

[1734] Instagram is Courtney DeWalter.

[1735] Instagram is Courtney DeWalter.

[1736] Twitter is court DeWalter.

[1737] And D -A -U -A -L -T -E -R.

[1738] Correct.

[1739] Whoever's got Courtney DeWalter on Twitter.

[1740] Give it up, bitch.

[1741] Come on.

[1742] That's ridiculous.

[1743] Give it to her.

[1744] Because they got it, right?

[1745] Right after you won, right?

[1746] That's when they did it?

[1747] Yeah, some weird series of events led to a Twitter being made for me. But didn't they say they were going to give it to you?

[1748] They said they were going to give it to you, right?

[1749] Yeah.

[1750] Okay, make that happen.

[1751] Thank you so much, Courtney.

[1752] It's been awesome.