Russ Cook (Hardest Geezer): I Haven't Told The Whole Truth About Africa!, They Took Me Into The Jungle To Kill Me!

[0] When I say Day 102, does it bring back any memories?

[1] Yeah, it's the only YouTube video that I didn't release.

[2] My name is Russ Cook, and I'm attempting to become the first person ever to run the entire length of Africa.

[3] It was probably the highest part of my whole life.

[4] What happened?

[5] So, going down this dirt path and two blokes on a motorbike puller, I knew that I'm on a bike for longer than half an hour.

[6] It's bad news.

[7] I ended up spending seven hours on a motorbike going into the jungle.

[8] I was getting kidnapped.

[9] Your partner told us that she thought you had died I mean I thought I was going to die as well Were you thinking about people back home Russ?

[10] I don't think many people know That you did all this stuff before Africa In 22 years old you become the first person to run from Asia to London You buried yourself alive for seven days You pulled the car as well which is pretty crazy What were you looking for?

[11] That's one hell of a question man Things had got pretty bad I wasn't to speak to my family I was drinking and gambling I would wake up throughout the week I just burst in tears crying you had dark thoughts yeah but ultimately you know no one was going to come and save you just had to be in and i thought africa would be the best adventure ever but may 30 you start pissing blood i knew it was bad it probably ended you get robbed at gunpoint they got passports money and then a falling out amongst the team you've not talked about this in detail either i just blew up shouting everyone throwing chairs what happened well congratulations dire overseer gang we've made some progress percent of you that listen to this podcast regularly, don't subscribe, which is down from 69%.

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[15] Thank you and enjoy this episode.

[16] Ross.

[17] You know, you're someone that has achieved and has pursued really anomalous feats.

[18] in their life, feats that most of us as muggles would never have the insanity to take on.

[19] So I was so curious to understand from your perspective, what are the dominoes that fell in your life that led you to be the guy that sits here that everyone around the country and around the world is perplexed and astonished and inspired by?

[20] Where does it start?

[21] that's one hell of a question man uh i think really i had quite a normal upbringing and maybe that's like the basis for why i ended up doing all this kind of stuff um yeah like dad my early memories of like my dad were he was a very hard working man he cut metal for a living and didn't really see that much of him when I was young.

[22] He would be out working 13, 14 hours a day, coming home, metal dust all over him.

[23] Mum would look after me and my brothers.

[24] And I think he kind of instilled the, like that hard working mentality in me. And, you know, a lot of the Domino's fell from that, really.

[25] And what was your mum like when you were growing up?

[26] My mum was very, what I always remember about her mom, and she really enforced it in us to be polite.

[27] That was like a big thing for her.

[28] So always like, yes, yes, please, thank you.

[29] Whenever we'd go around to people's houses, she was like, make sure that we behaved well and all of this kind of stuff.

[30] And her dad is like military man. So 18 to 65, always, in RAF, like, very well respected.

[31] So I think she got that from him and that's what she passed down to us.

[32] But she was like very caring.

[33] she her whole life was her kids really so yeah like a lot of respect for my mom the absence of your father you said the second ago that because he was quite absent your mother kind of carried the responsibility of raising the kids herself do you reflect on that and as you look back in your life understand how his absence had an impact on you because before this conversation did I got to speak to my team and I got to speak to a lot of people around you, as you know, because I'm sure they're all little snitches.

[34] So we spoke to your girlfriend, we spoke to your dad, spoke to your team, spoke to everyone around you privately and got all of their take sort of perspectives and stuff.

[35] And it appeared from those conversations that the early sort of absence of your father had a pretty big impact on shaping you as an individual.

[36] Yeah, I mean, I guess I think my, now I'm older.

[37] I just look at it like my dad was doing everything that he could to provide for his family.

[38] You know, I think he took that responsibility really seriously.

[39] And, yeah, I mean, it's hard to really contemplate how that affected me. But the few things I did see of my daddy was just always, he ran a marathon when I was a kid, and I remember that being like a big, you know, he would always talk about willpower.

[40] And he didn't say much, but like he was more of man of, he did things rather than spoke.

[41] spoke about him.

[42] So he'd go out and work really hard or he'd go and run a marathon.

[43] And I'd see these things happening.

[44] You know, he'd come home from work and he'd be knackered and he'd be on the sofa and like he kind of just, that was the way he led, you know.

[45] It's a generational thing in many respects, isn't it?

[46] Because my dad, I feel like is very much the same.

[47] I don't think we had many deep conversations at all.

[48] But he led by example in a sense that he worked hard, loved his family.

[49] Yeah.

[50] That marathon, your dad ran.

[51] Did he do things like that a lot um not really he was he was working pretty much all the time so he do he ran two marathons one when he was 31 when he was 40 but he used to take me out on runs when i was quite young and you know he wouldn't really say anything but it was more just me seeing it that i think was important for me that's how he operated you know what about affection Yeah, no, my dad's My dad or my mom aren't very affectionate people I don't think I've I don't think I've ever seen them like even kiss Maybe maybe once or twice when I was young But like, you know I love using I love using stuff like this Wasn't words that got thrown around in our family Not that they didn't mean it I just think that like we're our family's a bit stiff like that Not all families have the tools Yeah.

[52] Do you know what I mean?

[53] They just, maybe they didn't get them from their parents.

[54] No, I think that's exactly it, you know.

[55] And I think when, as I've got older and I've understood like where they've come from and their parents and their upbringing, then it's like, it makes sense.

[56] But it didn't make sense.

[57] It didn't make sense at the time.

[58] It's hard to, like, when you're young, I found it really hard to make sense.

[59] A lot of things.

[60] I was one of them, like, had a lot of questions.

[61] Hard to find the answers, but I kept digging.

[62] What kind of questions did you have?

[63] I guess it was more stuff like I was finding it hard to find my way in the world and especially when I got to like teenage years and I'd be like how do I do this or how do I you know how do I build a career how do I make money how do I do all of these things how do I navigate friendships and relationships and all these kind of complex how do I find meaning in my life not that I was directly asking those questions but those kind of things I'm prodding out of that age and I think you know you know You know, from my parents, it was quite hard to find those answers just because I think they will struggle with communicating like that, you know.

[64] When you were 13, 14 years old, do you think you're different from your peers?

[65] Do you feel like you're different in any way or isolated in any way from other people?

[66] I looked at people and I was like, like teachers, for example, or any kind of authority figures in my life.

[67] And if I sensed that they weren't very happy in their lives, so they were a bit, miserable, I would kind of discard a lot of what they were trying to tell me. I found at that age, had a lot of people trying to tell me what to do or, you know, do this, do that, behave like this.

[68] And I was like, if I do what you say, then I'm going to end up like you.

[69] And I don't want that.

[70] So I'm doing my own thing.

[71] And I think that kind of started a journey of trying to find my own answers and stumbling.

[72] Of course, a lot of different things to try and find that.

[73] do you think your mum and dad were happy?

[74] No I kind of feel bad for saying I want to do them a service when I'm talking about them because I do respect them a lot now especially now I'm older and I understand things more but I don't think at the time I think they've had their struggles like a lot of us have our struggles you know yeah I ask the question because I even look at my own life and I think whatever the source of my parents and happiness was I think as kids we sometimes our relationship with whatever's making our parents unhappy often has a big impact on us.

[75] And I, you know, I sit here a lot with comedians and stuff.

[76] And I remember Jimmy Cass, I think it was Jimmy Carr said to me, he goes, listen, when you sit down with a comedian, Steve, you don't need to ask the comedian if they're depressed.

[77] You need to ask them which one of their parents were depressed because the reason for their behavior will be at some level a desire to please or make one of their parents smile for a change.

[78] You know what I mean?

[79] And I wondered that with your early upbringing because because you know i got to speak to your family and i got to speak to people around you and the picture that was emerging was that home wasn't the happiest place and it wasn't the most loving connected cuddly perfect rosy smiley you know idyllic environment to say the least no idea i'd agree i'd agree of that and yeah yeah i mean i think it wasn't for the lack of trying yeah but it's like you said they didn't have the tools and you know ultimately that is what kind of pushed pushed me to go and try and find my own things which it's worked out for the best and when you say pushed you to go find during things um 16 17 years old you move out mm why well things things had got quite bad with with family stuff I was a piece of shit to me honest with you are very rebellious, very disrespectful, didn't listen to anything that they were saying and very intent on doing my own thing.

[80] And I think that kind of took a big toll on everyone in the family because I was, you know, I was stressing everyone out.

[81] Why?

[82] What were you looking for?

[83] I think deep down I was just like looking for something more in my life.

[84] I was looking at what, you know, the life that the adults around me were living.

[85] And I was like, I don't, I don't want that.

[86] I want, I want more than that.

[87] I want to go and see, want to go and live, you know.

[88] And, you know, that's kind of when, you know, you've got a kid that's 16 hasn't done anything with his life.

[89] And he's just kind of disrespecting you, ignoring everything you're saying and doing his own thing, coming home whenever.

[90] Kids don't, kids aren't born like that, though.

[91] Yeah.

[92] Do you know what I mean?

[93] They're not born acting out and disrespecting people.

[94] So that's why I'm asking about the cause of it.

[95] Because, you know, sometimes when you hear kids doing that kind of thing, you kind of think they're acting out to try and get some attention.

[96] And then they're kind of like rebelling from, you know, authority because they feel, I don't know, disconnected in some way or whatever.

[97] I think that's maybe it, you know, like it's probably part of it.

[98] I'm not exactly sure why.

[99] But that's kind of.

[100] what happened and I think I was had a lot of energy a lot of motivation viciously ambitious but didn't really know how to apply it where to apply it to get what I wanted and I was looking around me for I think I was looking around searching for the guidance that that would help me but I wasn't really finding it so I was just trying to make I was just basically discarding things I thought weren't important, or opinions that weren't important that weren't going to get me where I wanted.

[101] And I was just looking for, looking for it.

[102] And yeah, that's kind of how things started unraveling and ended up moving out.

[103] And that induced a quite a tasty few years in itself.

[104] When you say moved out, do you mean like organized the removal van and to add an apartment you were moving into?

[105] What was the day like when you moved out?

[106] It was quite a messy, it was quite messy for a couple of years in there.

[107] Like I remember my parents sent me up to my granddad in Scotland one summer when I was like 15 and this was kind of the start of when things were going quite bad.

[108] Your parents were doing okay.

[109] My parents were doing okay.

[110] Yeah.

[111] But then, so then, and then I remember one night they moved all my stuff to my other granddad's house and changed the lock on the door.

[112] They were like, you're not coming back and keep the door in and bowled in.

[113] So it was kind of happening for a while and then it got to the point where I remember my mum being like, yeah, you need to go.

[114] And I was like, cool.

[115] It wasn't like a out of the door with tail between my legs or anything.

[116] It was like, I don't need you anyway.

[117] Sit that out.

[118] Like at what age?

[119] 15, 16.

[120] That was about 17.

[121] Yeah.

[122] And then I I organised a flat.

[123] It was the cheapest flat I could rent in Worthing.

[124] And I was still, I was at college.

[125] So I was working about four or five part -time jobs, just like cleaning.

[126] I was up on my bike going to Waitrose cleaning toilets in the morning before college and then finished that and I went into sales at first.

[127] You know when they changed the locks on the door and tell you that you can't come back home?

[128] Yeah.

[129] If I asked them at the time why they had done that, what do you think they would have said they would have said like this guy needs humbling he's he's he doesn't know anything about the world he's very arrogant very disrespectful and then in hindsight as you totally right yeah totally right but you you must have empathy for that kid because you know you look back as an adult you can understand the complex a range of emotions yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah because there's no kids aren't like they're not it born to be like terrors like that yeah uh well i get it from i think now i'm older i just get it from both sides like it it's really difficult it was really difficult for them to manage that like complex kind of personality and it was also really hard for me to express or commune make my in a way that was i was going to get myself listened to i wasn't doing that i was just like totally trying to run everyone over you know you wanted to be heard yeah I think so and what does that mean I guess I just wanted someone to like understand and I just I think I just wanted the guidance like of someone I wanted guidance but from someone that I someone that I looked at and was like I want what they've got you know or like they've done life in a way that I want to do life and they could teach me the lessons but I didn't I was struggling to kind of to find that at that age it reminds me of my conversation with Ashley Walters and from top boy yeah said pretty much the exact same thing his father wasn't around and so he was looking for a role model or guidance answers and he couldn't find it so he ends up joining these gangs and that spirals somewhere else and it's so interesting that you know a young a young man at your age that age sort of you know 14 15 16 17 if they don't have someone there to model themselves on they can descend into different forms of chaos yeah like so much energy um which is in a lot of ways i think a positive thing but just without those guidelines to to actually get you somewhere it just kind of becomes chaos when you moved out then so you moved out sort of 16 17 years old how was your relationship with your parents from there terrible really yeah didn't speak to them for a long time uh even up until i would say up until probably the last year is a couple of years it's been pretty sure but um you're 27 now yeah you're talking about when you were 17 yeah yeah well it's it there was there's moments in there where it's got better and then got worse and got better but for for a while it's yeah it was tough when you you know at 17 years old they changed the locks you move out I'm sure your response was hardest geezer because it always is right yeah like you said it's just fuck it i don't care yeah i'll figure it out yeah but at some deeper level you're i think we're all bullshitting ourselves just if we say that it doesn't have an impact because i can relate i remember the call to my mom at 18 and telling how i was leaving university and i remember what she said to me yeah i can't repeat what she said because it's so vicious really yeah it's like you're it's so vicious one of the things you said to me but it was hardest geeseer exterior yeah yeah yeah and then at some deeper level on certain days.

[130] Oh, yeah.

[131] You know, it'll catch me in the other day.

[132] Oh, 100 % man. Like, and I think the hardest geese are kind of, like that aggressive approach to it is just like a way of coping with it.

[133] Every now and again, you know, like the emotions would roll out and, yeah, I'm not denying that for a second.

[134] I remember seeing, I moved out and then I think I saw my dad maybe, I can't remember how long after it was a good few months, maybe a year or so.

[135] And it just made me cry just seeing him.

[136] So like, the emotions were always.

[137] there but to kind of get through it it was like right you know fuck everyone why did you cry when you saw him just because i think like there's always a part of me that understands that my parent there's no there's no one else in the world that loves me like my parents do and like no matter what they do or like how badly i felt i'd been wronged or which i wasn't really they were just trying their best i always knew that you know whatever happens these these are two people actually care about me the most and i think that just makes like when things aren't going well that makes you emotional because it's like these are the people i'm supposed to be closer with things real bad right now so you're so right i think so many people are probably in that situation right now where they they love that person but they don't know how to build the bridge both people yeah and it takes two to build the bridge it really does they can't build it i can't build it so we love each other but we're fucking at war yeah I think, like, a big part of that for me in building that bridge was actually my girlfriend when I was away because she, she went over and she went around their house and spoke to them loads and she's, because even before I left, like, I went around to see both my parents before I left, but it was the first time I'd see them in like, maybe like a year and a half, two years.

[138] Really, anything to your parents?

[139] Yeah, yeah, yes.

[140] Before I left for Africa.

[141] We'd spoken, me and my girlfriend spoke.

[142] a lot about these kind of things and how like important we want family to be and she I felt like at a loss making that that step I just didn't really know how to do it what to say blah blah blah but she kind of over this year is really like done a lot in that sense people might think this is sexist but I do think women have more tools 100 % my girlfriend's the same if my girlfriend me and my mum sometimes don't speak for prolonged periods of time and my girlfriend like insists upon it yeah yeah dragged me down to plimuth and was like we're going to see her yeah oh mate i couldn't agree more i especially with me and my girlfriend's dynamic anyway like that's really she's i look at her like a like a wizard in that sense i'm like i don't know what i'm doing but she yeah she's got that under control which is amazing so you're 17 years old you've moved out you're on your own what's the plan yeah wow um Yeah, so I remember I had this flat in Worthing.

[143] It was the cheapest flat available on Right Move, $450 a month, which is more than I could afford, but I was like, right, let's do it.

[144] I was working a bunch of different jobs, trying to finish college, kind of scrape through.

[145] And then I actually was watching, this is so cringe, it's funny.

[146] I was like, one of them lads that watched Wolf of Wall Street and was like, This is it for me. Do you know what I mean?

[147] This is the game.

[148] I'm going to become a millionaire doing sales stuff.

[149] So I went and got a few sales jobs.

[150] Made some actually not bad money for my age, but really didn't enjoy it.

[151] And, you know, ended up with that kind of lack of guidance.

[152] I ended up just doing the things that felt to me like the most fun or the most, like they would bring, in my naivety, they would bring me the most meaningful experiences at the time, which ended up being going out a lot with the boys and drinking and gambling.

[153] And that's kind of what my life was for the next kind of two, three years after that.

[154] Were you addicted to gambling?

[155] Because I was reading through your story and speaking to some of your friends and they told me that there was some instances where you basically lost everything you had and had to borrow money a few, your misses at the time.

[156] oh mate it was it's embarrassing to even talk about like i remember you know i didn't have much money but i'd done one night on roulette i'd done about two i think it was over two grand on online roulette just sitting there on my phone late at night just tapping away and that was kind of everything i had at the time and plus the overdraft plus all the rest of it and i had to i was too embarrassed to say anything so i told my miss is like i think i just made up some bullshit shit lies about what this xyz and said like i need to borrow money for rent and stuff this month there was a moment there where i was like okay this really needs stop and i just went on every single gambling website i could find and did the self -band thing never gambled since and the alcohol yeah i mean i think the alcohol stuff was just like binge drinking culture i wouldn't say like i was an alcoholic or anything like this that was just the only way i could really the only thing I look forward to I'd hate my jobs I'd hate work all throughout the week but I'd be like all right Saturday with the boys or Saturday drinking this whatever going out here was like the thing that I look forward to that was the only thing I was really living for Was there part of you throughout that period of your life when you're working in sales you're gambling too much, you're drinking too much I heard you were overweight at the time as well Was there a part of you that sort of a voice inside your head that was saying like Come on Russ like this isn't it?

[157] Definitely I was so miserable man so so miserable at that time really struggled I remember I would like wake up throughout the week just like crying just so miserable yeah you'd wake up through the week crying just like I'd wake up like supposed to go to work I'd just be like so upset just be like the worst so miserable couldn't just fast them.

[158] I was like, why is, why is life this, why does it suck this much?

[159] You know, like, I really had no, felt like I was kind of trapped.

[160] Lack of connection, I think was a big part of that.

[161] You had people around you though, but you just weren't connected.

[162] Not, I didn't, I mean, I had like a few, a few of my boys, but I wasn't speaking to my family at all this time.

[163] Um, well, I guess I was just doing a lot of things that would make you miserable I had no control over my finances because I was pissing away everything I earned on roulette I was the only things I look forward to is going out and getting pissed which would make me feel like shit as well and then I would go to work and hate it working every day so it doesn't take a genius to work out that's going to be a pretty miserable existence you know and you didn't have family around you didn't have yeah didn't have like many deep connections so how old were you at that point in your life so that would be like 18 19 17 18 19 20 maybe just about so if you had to give me a a word to summarize your sort of mental health throughout that period what would you how would you describe your mental health toilet yeah bad pretty bad was there a worst day that you can recall um yeah I mean I remember like I do remember just if you don't want to talk about it yeah you get your own pace tell me what you're comfortable talking about I mean I remember days like I said I'd wake up crying to speak to my boss I remember even one day with my boss speaking so on the phone just burst in tears crying and I think what was hard is that I didn't understand anything I didn't understand why you know what I mean I didn't have the tools to really make any sense of the situation.

[164] Because now I'm seven, eight, nine years older, I can look back and go, yeah, well, that's what happens when you gamble loads and you piss all your money away and you drink loads and you don't have anything in your life that's going to bring you any meaning or fulfillment.

[165] It's obvious.

[166] At that time, I didn't know that.

[167] So that kind of sense of helplessness was a really big weight on me. And it just felt like I was never going to be able to shift it.

[168] that was the most difficult thing.

[169] I was like, I don't know how I'm going to get out of this.

[170] You had dark thoughts?

[171] Yeah.

[172] The most dark thoughts?

[173] Pretty, yeah, pretty much.

[174] That season of your life, I've heard you kind of describe it as a rock bottom moment.

[175] And it's interesting because there's so many people that are somewhere along that journey, where they're struggling, they've got that sense of helplessness that you've described.

[176] and they're searching for answers and I think in some respects thinking about some people that I've spoken to recently they've kind of given up believing that they can solve this because it's gone on for too long and as you said they don't even know what's causing it they just feel it intensely I've got a couple of friends that I really go into that at the moment and I wonder I always wonder to myself like how does someone someone get from that moment, they're like personal rock bottom, what does it take to get them starting the climb?

[177] Because that's why I'm asking these questions.

[178] I see it in your story.

[179] I see you going further and further and further and further and further down.

[180] Yeah.

[181] Reaching this rock bottom moment.

[182] And then in that rock bottom moment, you have some of the, I think, the darkest thoughts that anyone can have.

[183] And then something causes you to make a decision.

[184] Yeah.

[185] I think there's a few different things that went into that melting pot.

[186] I think actually a massive thing was like things like listening to podcasts and I started, I remember listening to like Joe Rogan a lot back in the day and he's like, I remember the Jordan Peterson there was a Jordan Peterson episode ages ago and it was like a classic thing but that really kind of hit me and that's what I like, I love listening to him now and I know he's a bit controversial these days and people have X, Y, Z to say about him but for me like just having, that was like like my guidance in a lot of ways.

[187] And I think so blessed to have been born in this generation where the guidance can come through all of these online resources.

[188] Whereas before, you know, like 20, 30 years ago, maybe that would never have come for me. And maybe 20 years later, I'd still be in the same spot.

[189] So, like, incredibly grateful for that.

[190] But then...

[191] Can I ask a question on that?

[192] Yeah, go on.

[193] In that moment when you're 19 years old and you're searching for going, do your parents know what you're going through?

[194] no i don't think so do you think today they know what you you were going through in that probably not no probably not i i i reckon like i don't know i reckon my mum's probably thought about it to be fair but i don't know they don't know the ins and outs that they don't know what are the ins and outs that they don't know well just like the day to day you know and i and i don't i'll get i'm quite like keep a lot of things to myself a lot of the time anyway so like no one really know There's a real cost to that in there.

[195] There is, yeah, I guess.

[196] There is this, you know, these things, I always think with these things, keeping them to yourself doesn't mean that they stay inside it.

[197] It means they express themselves in other ways.

[198] Yeah, smart.

[199] I sit with a lot of people, so I've come to learn about myself.

[200] But one of the things I've definitely come to learn is that keeping it in doesn't actually keep it in.

[201] It just comes out in other ways.

[202] It makes it like a pressure chamber and then you get your little escapes.

[203] Someone will say something you can fuck up.

[204] Or some people have.

[205] expresses themselves in pornography addictions or gambling addictions they're trying to find other ways to ease the burden of having to hold on to that all that stuff or running the length africa so they had no idea no if you could go back and have a word with him when he's woke up on that morning when you're at your you're rock bottom and he's crying and he doesn't want to go to work and he's thinking about dark you know dark thoughts if you could go back and just have a telephone conversation with him now what would you what did you say to him oh i guess i do i do have empathy for that guy i think the thing the thing that i needed to hear which was the most which actually got me to force me into action was like i need to take responsibility for my situation here so like that version of me at 19 18 19 was very much one that looked at my outside world and blamed everyone else for my problems like i was because my parents did this or my boss did this and all of these other things and i didn't need anyone else to come in and say oh it's not your fault blah blah blah blah i needed someone to go that's the fucking world mate get used to like do something about it or don't up to you so that's probably the message that i would give maybe i'd deliver it in a nice little empathetic way, but ultimately, you know, no one was going to come and save you.

[206] It's had to be me. And you talk about this, I was reading different sort of seasons of your life and there's this one moment where you're in a nightclub and it seems like you have a bit of, I don't know whether you were on something or you're on something, but it seems like you had a little bit of a dance floor epiphany moment at 2, 3am in the morning.

[207] Yeah, so I think it had been leading up to this because I've been finding life really difficult for a while and I was doing all these different things trying to find something that I could put my energy into that would give me something positive in return and yeah, I remember being in the arch in Brighton and just being like I need to sort my life at it Like, what am I doing?

[208] A proper one of them, like, mirror, bit pissed, looking at the mirror moments going, fucking hell.

[209] And then ran home, about 11, 12 miles, took me ages, I was so on fit.

[210] Sorry, you ran home from the nightclub?

[211] Ran home from the nightclub.

[212] Why?

[213] I don't know, really.

[214] It was a bit forest gumpy in the way.

[215] It was just like, I just felt like running kind of vibes.

[216] At what time, sorry?

[217] Like 3 a .m., 2, 3am, something like this.

[218] You ran 12 miles at 3 a .m. Yeah, it took me ages.

[219] Yeah, yeah, I was totally off it, yeah.

[220] Sleeping on the side of the road?

[221] Yeah, took a little power nap in shore and pavement.

[222] But yeah, I mean, so I ran that marat, well, I ran that little bit and then a mate of mine that I'd been mates me for a long time had just started getting into running properly and he signed up for a half marion and he said to me, like, come and run it, like, let's do it, I'll train with you, blah, blah, blah.

[223] And I think that was the moment where I was like, oh, this might be something that i can do like i'm out of ideas here you know i need something so i literally just on a win was like fine let's do it signed up and then he took me out training um we did the half marathon then a few weeks later we signed up did the full marathon and that process was like a huge relief for me it just made it for the it made me really like it hammered in the sense that if I do something positive it will pay itself back to me you know like that accountability of like go and do something good here we go and you can see the improvements come in week by week by week and I think that's why I love running so much like because that's it in its simplest form it's like you go out run it's really shit and but then you keep going you keep going and now a month later you can run a half marathon or two months later you can now run a marathon and it was that process of going from someone that I couldn't even run around the block and then I could run a marathon and I was like shit this is this I've got something here like this is how we progress that's really the word in it progress that feeling of progress like you'd learn because that becomes a metaphor for life like I set out to do something and I got better at it I progressed yeah and I accomplished something yeah that's a that's a pretty strong transferable idea for the rest of your like for everyone's life to learn that exactly that's kind of what happened for me i'd i managed just like save up some money off the back of ran ran these marathons and then it's like stop drinking as much stop i wasn't gambling anymore and saved up a bit of money for the first time and then a few months later i decided right it's been off all these cleaning jobs i'm going to go and travel the world with my a few grand that I'd managed to save up and where did you go around the world travelling?

[224] Did a bit in Europe then went over to Africa got to Kenya did some I was really into my run at this point so I was training really hard every day it was like my living and breathing it went to the training camp this village called I -Tem which is like home to some of the best long distance runners ever like Kip Chogies from there all this kind of stuff just trained with them got my ass whipped up pretty good and that just i met an italian guy who'd been cycling around the world for six years super inspired by a story how he was living what he was doing and decided like i want to i want to do i want to try and do something like that and i was i was pretty good at running by now so then i first kind of conceived the idea of running from istanbul to london and that that was the next i was like all right that's what we're going for.

[225] I don't think many people know that you did all this stuff before Africa.

[226] No, I don't think so, yeah.

[227] I don't think they do.

[228] I don't think people, I was speaking to my mates.

[229] I was like, do you know he, he was the first person to run from Asia to London?

[230] And people are like, no. You just know that he ran Africa.

[231] And then all these other things you did beforehand.

[232] But 22 years old, you become the first person to run from Asia to London because you ran from Istanbul to London.

[233] You completed 71 marathons and 66 days through a, countries and you had no team with you yeah you basically just did it by yourself and your phone was dying and all that stuff yeah when you told your family and other people that you were going to run from Asia to London at 22 years old what was their response because that would be the first big most of them like yeah you're like you're gonna you're gonna die or like that's not going to happen I remember pretty much everyone being like that I could probably count on one handy amount of people actually thought I was going to do that what did your parents think can't actually remember I don't know if I was speaking to them very much at this time oh really yeah I remember my little brother was the only one that's like yeah he's the only one I remember they're like yeah he's deaf he's gonna do it what was that like you know because you're on your own it's different to the africa run but this time you're on your own for that whole that whole journey across Asia to Europe yeah what's that like it was an amazing adventure man it really was it was tough though like really tough being by myself the whole time I would literally run a marathon I had a little bag with a hammock and toothbrush toothpaste phone I just find a couple of trees at the end of the day sling the hammock up and go again the next day so yeah did you not need like friends or something what what like what I think the that a lot of people said this to me at the start they're like what are you're going to need this you're going to need that I'm like yeah but why actually why why can't you just sleep in a hammock every day and then go around a marathon marathon did you speak were you speaking to any any of any bitty back home around that time?

[234] I don't really you must look at that objectively and go that is not normal behaviour and then And then from that, I ask, so what is it that's abnormal about you?

[235] Because you're performing unnormal, it's super inspiring, but it's not normal.

[236] It's not typical.

[237] That's a good question, man. I'm not really sure.

[238] Yeah, it wasn't normal.

[239] Yeah, I guess it definitely wasn't normal.

[240] I love that you just figuring that out now.

[241] I think, you know, I met this Italian guy, and he'd been cycling around the world for six years, and he showed me his set up.

[242] He had nothing on him, really.

[243] He had like, he had basically nothing, but he just had a coffee kettle.

[244] That was the only thing he really cared about.

[245] So, meeting these kind of people just made me realize, like, what is normal?

[246] Who even cares about normal?

[247] I don't care.

[248] I just, like, this, this is normal.

[249] This guy's cycling around, six years.

[250] Why not?

[251] But he seems like he's had a pretty good adventure.

[252] I want a bit of that.

[253] In Africa, specifically Kenya, I've been there.

[254] Certain parts of Kenya can really teach you that you don't need.

[255] much that's what primal exactly I think it was just a different way of looking that's what the I mean it is the classic travelling like oh I'd go travelling and find yourself blah blah blah blah but it does you know sometimes meeting these people from doing the craziest stuff and from different cultures will just make you look at things in a different way you know even I found that coming back to London now and it's like all of you can I'm back into the mode like oh you need to go get a flat and you need to go and live somewhere and blah blah blah and i'm like hold on a minute like i don't need why do i need to do any of this you know you must realize upon returning to the uk how much people are kind of programmed yeah yeah and i just i guess the uh the age standing one was the first time i was just like just give it a go what's the worst going to happen and at the end of that run your father joins you um Yeah, so I remember my dad, my dad came up to London and saw me. He said that he was proud of me. And I remember that hitting because, like, he didn't say it often, but when he says it, you know, I can imagine your dad being similar, like kind of thing where you know he means it when he says it.

[256] And I think that's like one of the most powerful things that dad can say to their son, like, proud of you, son.

[257] Even that makes me emotional just saying it, like thinking about it.

[258] I'm like, wow.

[259] So yeah, that was nice.

[260] And he ran the last day with you?

[261] He ran like the last 5K, I think.

[262] Yeah, the last 5K.

[263] And I was actually joined for the last couple days by the mate that got me into running in the first place, which is really cool as well.

[264] Interestingly, there was no followers.

[265] There was no YouTube views, there was no headlines, there was no BBC articles, there was nothing.

[266] yeah most people don't even know it happened yeah frankly because you went on your own and you didn't do all the social media stuff yeah you then get back to the UK to much different fanfare than you got back to this time you go back to your parents house a couple of days in everyone's looking around going yeah what's that like a couple of days in yeah I mean I remember my body being pretty in a pretty bad way after that I couldn't even walk like I was really struggling body was really hurting and got back into the country I was skin because I'd done all my dough on this age of London run and then my dad was like I'm freaking and my dad's like what you're doing you're lazy like get a job or something so I was like oh fuck all right and then went and got up how did you feel when you heard that it was hard at the time I just I was I was really struggling because I'd just been away for a whole, you know, for about a year or something, done this big thing, finally finished.

[267] And then I was like, oh, that's reality, slapping me in the face again.

[268] But yeah.

[269] You pissed off?

[270] Yeah, I was, yeah.

[271] When he told you to get a job?

[272] Yeah, I was shooting, yeah.

[273] Why?

[274] Because I was, I was just mentally just absolutely done in and physically done in.

[275] And then he'd, like, just been like, oh, I'm so proud of you.

[276] I remember me being like, oh, I'm so proud of you.

[277] I remember being like, oh, oh, I'm so proud.

[278] do you you've achieved more in your life already than I ever have blah blah blah like and it really felt like I made a bit of a breakthrough there what do you mean breakthrough just like I felt like he respected me more like he'd actually seen that I was capable of doing something um that he thought was good you hadn't felt that before not in that way not in that way what did you think that he thought of you growing up when you were sort of 19 years old and gambling and doing like probably just disappointed um yeah disappointed bit of a loser you eventually end up burying yourself alive which is um yeah that's a ton of events i didn't i didn't see coming in your story so you you do this run at 22 years old um there's sort of a two year gap between then and when you bury yourself alive what are you doing for those two years so I was just working bits and pieces here and there really back to normality pretty much like I finished the Asia's London run and in my head from then I was like I would really love to make this kind of thing a career somehow don't know how I'm going to do it but I would love to be able to do that and then that kind of started like a three or four year process of working out okay you know if we make content then maybe brands will sponsor that and then I can go and do adventures with that money but that it took a long time to kind of put those pieces of the puzzle together like that was never the really what I was thinking of when I did Istanbul to London I've chucked a few photos up on Instagram just really for my boys to see be like I'm out in Serbia, camping or whatever.

[279] But yeah, then, you know, did the age line around, figured out if we make some content and that's how we're going to do it, buried myself alive, pulled a car for a marathon, then the Africa planning started happening.

[280] You buried yourself alive, you asked your parents if you could bury yourself in the garden and they told you to fuck off.

[281] Yeah, yeah, got that, I remember that now, yeah.

[282] You buried yourself alive for seven days in underground you basically just dug a hole in a tin can and jumped in the tin can and then they buried you there um and then eventually the plans as you say you pulled the car as well which is crazy do you know when i actually found out all this stuff which was shocked to me was i don't know a week or so into your run in africa i saw you pop up on my feed and then as you know i clicked on your profile and then i clicked on the dm box yeah and you sent me a dm yeah and the DM you sent me was in May the 5th I think it was 2022 so it was a long time ago it was more than two years ago now and paraphrasing because I know you're speculative one yeah I bet you get these kind of DMs all the time now I missed it I didn't see it so I didn't I didn't I didn't see it at all but um it's funny it's funny because I actually replied to you exactly one year to the day really yeah when you sent me a message or I replied you on May the 5th as well but you email me on May the 5th 2022 and in that message you said some nice things and then you said you'll probably get a lot of these DMs but let me explain why this one is special and exciting ha ha ha ha oh I'm going to this is your sales background there's coming through now I've removed some parts because I don't know no no no no just you know I'm an endurance athlete in 2019 I was I was the first person to run from Asia to London in 2020 I pulled a car for a marathon in record time in 2021 I got buried alive with nothing but water and I live streamed it for an entire week and in 2022, I'm starting a mission to become the first person to ever run the full length of Africa.

[283] You sent me that DM two years ago, hoping that I could assist you in some way with the Africa leg of that.

[284] And when I saw that, the most shocking part was that you'd done all of these other things, and I'd never ever heard about any of them.

[285] Yeah, yeah.

[286] And then in that message, you explained to me, because it was a very long message, and it was a really thorough message, you explained that this time would be different.

[287] People would actually know because you'd figure out content.

[288] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[289] And you've got some good people around you.

[290] And you'd spent almost two to three years thinking about this Africa run before you even, you set off going.

[291] Yeah.

[292] Why Africa?

[293] Why was that the plan?

[294] Well, I knew that Africa hadn't been done before, and it's one of the few things left that hadn't been done.

[295] So that was probably one of the big reasons.

[296] Also, like, Africa's not very well -traveled.

[297] Not many people, tourists, not many tourists go there.

[298] and I thought it would be like the best adventure ever just that's why I decided to do it so you were going to run from the bottom of Africa to the top yeah how long did you think it was going to take I thought it would take 240 days that was my goal I was going to do 360 marathins and 240 days didn't quite work how long did it take in total in the other took 352 days long time but there's lots of hurdles along the way before you set off I think it's four to five months before you set off maybe six months, you meet a young lady called Emily Bell.

[299] Ah, yeah.

[300] Wow.

[301] What a girl.

[302] What a woman.

[303] Was it six months before or something?

[304] No, I met her.

[305] We first met at one of our mutual friends' birthday party.

[306] Yeah.

[307] And I said to my friend, like, why have you never introduced me to her?

[308] She's beautiful.

[309] And then that started like a friend.

[310] month process of me trying to convince her to go on a date.

[311] It took a while, but we got there eventually.

[312] We got there eventually.

[313] Actually, we had a secret Santa going, and I think one of my friends did me a solid and kind of rigged the secret Santa, so I got her.

[314] Oh, nice.

[315] And then I got her tickets to go to Comedia, Comedy Club and Brighton.

[316] Got her two tickets, so I was like, well, you could take me okay.

[317] and then yeah so then that's when first started dating about this africa thing was already in the work so it was quite complicated but then before i left we were like right this do it and we kind of like we spoke on the phone every day and mate i was one of these people if you'd ask me two years go could that have ever worked like 14 months away we spent from each other i'd be like nah that's never going to work.

[318] But I think we spoke pretty much every day for hours whilst I was running, if I had signal.

[319] And the kind of stuff that we got to speak about and really go through in depth on is the kind of stuff that I think in a lot of relationships would just get swept away in the rigmarole of the day -to -day life.

[320] So I'm actually super grateful for that time.

[321] and, like, really proud of her and us for, like, navigating that kind of weird situation.

[322] Knowing your childhood and knowing the early model of relationships that you experienced to this mother and this father didn't seem like they always had the best time, a little bit distant, the affection wasn't there.

[323] When you go into a relationship, there must be a part of your subconscious that still has that model of relationships front of mind.

[324] So you must be in some respects, like I am, to be.

[325] be fair, or at least like I was until I was about 27, 28, when I had my first relationship.

[326] I had my first relationship at your age, an avoidant.

[327] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[328] Because you hadn't learned, you didn't have the tools to be affectionate and to be open.

[329] Totally avoidant.

[330] Still at him, a bit.

[331] But when you met her, you hadn't done, had those deep conversations.

[332] Nah, I think, credit to her more than me. She kind of brung that out.

[333] I didn't have tools to go, to do any of that stuff, to be honest.

[334] You know, she's just, I think sometimes, like, I don't know, I just think we fit really well, like, together.

[335] What I can do well, she can't, what she can do well, I can't, like, it works.

[336] It's so interesting because we got to have a conversation with Emily.

[337] Yeah.

[338] And the way she described you.

[339] sounded very, very much like me. It's no, it's funny because I've actually listened.

[340] I remember messaging you actually about it, I think.

[341] I listened to, you had a podcast with some relationship person.

[342] Esther Perel, I remember.

[343] And, yeah, like the way you were talking about, I was like, God, this is, like, this is hitting over here.

[344] And we do that a lot sometimes.

[345] We listen to podcasts and talk about it and like, do this, I'll do this.

[346] I'm going to play this.

[347] oh god this is going to be awkward for you but listen it's it's word for word me yeah he because he doesn't accept support very like he's got so much better at it but like nurturing I want to help I want to make his life easier what can I do how can I support you and my I think we have different um support looks different for me and for him.

[348] So support for me looks like a hug or like a chat or something that's, you know, it's different for everyone.

[349] But for him, support looks like space.

[350] That's textbook me. Yeah.

[351] Support is leave me alone.

[352] It's my love language is just acts of service and leave me alone.

[353] That's really what it's about here.

[354] we're talking about you have different love languages and she goes on to explain that this is much because of the way that like your early years you're used to independence.

[355] Yeah.

[356] God, she's smart.

[357] Let me just.

[358] Yeah, no, I remember those days.

[359] You've changed.

[360] You've changed.

[361] How have you changed?

[362] Wow.

[363] How have I changed?

[364] All the sort of intimacy -related relationships.

[365] love related stuff have you changed i think i've definitely become more willing to accept something i do still struggle with that but i've definitely tried to do that more it's all i think for me it was like i really cared about emily so i really wanted to be the best that i could for her as well and I just think like the level of desire to make that happen was like really high so I've just I think before I wasn't very willing to compromise on a lot of stuff I was like I'm doing my thing you either fit in or you don't see you later whatever whereas with Emily it reminds me with Emily I was like oh like she's special I really want to make this work and I'm I'm going to have to there's it's actually a benefit to me if i can compromise because she that kind of having that connection also bring a lot to my life and i need and i need to i need it she kind of got over the fence she got over the wall of the castle and managed to invade and change you from inside yeah yeah yeah but you didn't want to let anyone over the fucking no no is that how it's been for you as well then oh yeah i met i met a person who i cared about so much yeah it's what exactly what you said that I was finally willing to compromise on things before then it was like as you say my way or the highway like don't get in the way of my dreams you're either on the bus or you're off it but not like I'm willing to go to a different direction in some areas of my life here and it's I think that's good news for a lot of people that are avoidance because it offers us all hope that you know we'll meet someone and they'll be worth it and they'll help to rewire some of the evidence we have from our earliest years about what relationships are and aren't and the freedom they make us compromise and all of those things she sounds like a really wonderful person she is man she's great she's the best i love her to bits they always say you strengthen a relationship by going through something difficult together and that's exactly what happened as you ran the length of africa the really remarkable thing was i was reading about your preparation for this trip and to say the least russ you were ill prepared you landed in south africa with 10k which is for 4 % of the money that you would need to make it the whole way.

[366] I mean, there's so many other things here.

[367] You knew that you couldn't get through, I think it was Angola?

[368] Algeria.

[369] Algeria.

[370] You knew you couldn't get through Algeria because they don't issue visas if you're not in the country.

[371] They denied our visa already, yeah.

[372] And they don't issue visas when you're not in the country, we already left.

[373] So you sort of like I'll figure it out when we get there.

[374] Pretty much.

[375] What is that mentality?

[376] Because there's so many people that need everything figured out and all the answers.

[377] And to feel that.

[378] psychological feeling of I'm ready you don't seem to give a fuck frankly i don't think i was afforded the luxury of being able to you know wait really we were running out of money it was it was now and ever i've you know make it work with what you've got or don't do it basically and i was like i think we could do it where did this 10k come from well we actually got 50k to start with from an investor that it was a mate of a mate i've managed to persuade to give us some money to get things going.

[379] What was in it for him?

[380] He's got a percentage of like everything we make off the back end.

[381] So he's done all right.

[382] He was a risky, risky one.

[383] That's a hell of a, yeah, risky one for sure.

[384] I think he, it was more like a, he just wanted to see it happen, you know.

[385] He was a fellow worthy boy, a year younger than me, made a bunch of money in crypto.

[386] And yeah, so he fronted the first bit of money to get us going.

[387] And 50K was more than enough to get us going.

[388] but what ended up happening is the mission got delayed more and more we had some people involved at the start that kind of long story they kind of said that these things were going to happen blah blah blah brands were going to happen all of this stuff they were trying to make happen none of it ended up coming to fruition did they take money they didn't take any money no but we ended up burning through a lot of the money before we were supposed to be on start line with like 50k and we ended up months were I'll buy we wasted money on x yz ideas didn't come so we basically got to a point where i kind of got rid of all these people start line 10 grand i was like if we don't get funding within you know if we don't get any kind of sponsorship within the first month we're this is game over because we've run out of money said to all my team gonna have to delay your wages etc just really tightened up and then i got a message from some bloke from dragons then like two weeks in who jones yeah no so mate i mean i don't know this is another thing that people probably don't know that you're like such a massive part of the story like you know when when you messaged i remember being in south africa i think it was about 10 days two weeks in or something like this got a message from you that was like oh like just seen what you're doing something like this love it like if you need any help let me know and i was Like, man, you should see, I rang Emily up.

[389] I was like, you were never going to believe who just messaged me. Like, it was crazy.

[390] You know, obviously, you all got sorted out, perfect TED got sorted out, two unbelievable sponsors.

[391] And it's kind of changed the whole mission, man. Like, I can't even put into words how grateful I am that you messaged me that.

[392] Like, it was, that was like, you know, sometimes where you have like a moment where you're like, wow.

[393] like that's like that you were that moment for me really yeah yeah but you did that I no you did no but like no you did I'll tell you why you did that because two things the first thing is you had messaged me a year earlier and I just had totally missed it yeah but the second thing is you went and did some so you planted a seed there then you went and did something so awesome that the world brought it to my attention and when the world brought it to my attention.

[394] I looked at what you were doing.

[395] I think you were two weeks, roughly two weeks in.

[396] And I just thought it was awesome.

[397] I thought you were a cool guy and I could play out how this mission goes in my head.

[398] And I thought, this is really fucking cool.

[399] I'm an investor in.

[400] I'm a part owner in various companies.

[401] And there was two companies that I am very close to, Perfect Ted and Heel, who I felt were just perfect because, no pun intended, because Perfect Ted are like an energy drink company that I met on Dragon's Den.

[402] You need energy.

[403] And they're all about positive.

[404] energy and um the founders are very much like you and then obviously hugh on the nutrition side of things i thought they were perfect for you as well and i messaged both of them and they were both down instantly i just sent WhatsApp so there's this guy he's running the length of africa he's so cool he's really he's like going to do it and they both brands were like down in one message i messaged them both the founders on WhatsApp and they were like we're in so and you had done that you had because you had messaged me most people i say this because is sometimes people can see things like pivotal moments in their journey as luck, but I think it's important to highlight that you planted a seed a year earlier when you literally sent me like three pages in a DM.

[405] I guess I'd describe it like, I was knocking on the door, but I needed someone to open it and you opened it.

[406] So like, it's a kind of a dual thing there.

[407] I think you planted a lot of seeds.

[408] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[409] I was knocking on a few doors.

[410] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[411] And I'm sure there's lots of messages you sent that were never replied to.

[412] Yeah.

[413] So I'm really glad that I saw it.

[414] I'm really glad, but I saw it because you were doing something awesome And it just popped up in my feed one day.

[415] And I went down a rabbit hole and I was like, this is fucking cool.

[416] This guy is cool.

[417] It'd be dope to be, you know, to do anything we can to see him see this through.

[418] So that gives you a little nudge forward, those two incredible brands.

[419] You get going on the mission.

[420] You run into a bunch of health issues.

[421] I mean, it went around the internet for a while.

[422] I think at this time you've got, I don't know, you didn't have many followers at the time.

[423] You're 20, 30, 40 ,000 followers.

[424] Yeah.

[425] It kind of grew a lot quite quickly, early doors.

[426] But we started, I started the mission with, I think, 20K on Insta, 6K on Twitter, 10K on YouTube.

[427] And you start pissing blood by like day 30.

[428] Is there a part of you at day 30 when you're running through Africa and you're pissing blood and you go, I ain't going to be able to do this?

[429] No. I knew it was bad.

[430] You're running out of money a couple weeks before.

[431] Then you start pissing blood.

[432] For most people, either one of those things would be, okay.

[433] Let's get a flight.

[434] I just, I knew that, you know, it was a bad situation, but it would probably end eventually.

[435] And then carry on going.

[436] You get robbed in South Africa, which is the first sort of minor robbery incident.

[437] Feeves approach you.

[438] They try and take your stuff.

[439] I think you give them a lift home.

[440] Yeah, that was two guys came up to me whilst I was running at night.

[441] One came in front of me, one came behind me. And I kind of instantly knew this was a bit shaky.

[442] And I just went a bit mad, just like, weighed up the situation, just started acting a bit crazy, started, like, beating my chest and shouting and stuff to try and, like, put them off.

[443] Because I could, I've got the feeling like, okay, this is an attempt, but they haven't gone straight in with the robbery.

[444] They're kind of feeling it out.

[445] So I was like trying to give them enough of reason to think that I'm crazy enough.

[446] It's just not worth it.

[447] It kind of worked.

[448] Sorry, you started beating your chest.

[449] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[450] I started beating my chest.

[451] I started shouting.

[452] I was, I was mid -run, and they joined me running.

[453] Like, one in front, one behind.

[454] They were running.

[455] I think they, it was a situation where they were trying to fill me out, you know, should we rob this guy?

[456] Okay, this kind of thing.

[457] And I just thought if I can put them off enough.

[458] So can you describe to me what you, I literally beat in my chest.

[459] Yeah.

[460] I was just like, we're running, boy!

[461] Ah!

[462] like just go ahead and totally a bit just to make them think like oh this guy's a bit you know he's a bit off it maybe we just get the next one did you learn that somewhere or is that like a plan you had no that was just purely like I think you're at differently to different situations so we've been robbed at gunpoint where there's a gun in my face and I'm not going to start beating my chest because I don't want a bullet in my head but then there's other times where you think like you're kind of looking at them going he's actually a bit nervous to rob me. So if I can put him off enough, then he's just not going to bother, which was that situation.

[463] So what happens then you start beating your chest acting like a little sick?

[464] Start beating my chest and like a lunatic.

[465] The one got the run, the guy running behind me ended up dropping off.

[466] So then it was just the guy in front of me. He was quite a small guy anyway.

[467] And I was like, I don't reckon he's about it.

[468] And then, um, did he was telling me you the hardest geez.

[469] And then we ended up speaking a little bit and he was like, oh, like my friend was going to rob you but we're not hit but he's gone we're not going to rob you and i was like oh your friend was going to rob me was yeah like nice um and then you know i actually ended up speaking to him and he was saying like he's just he needs some money to like feed his family and stuff he was living in a township next next to the road which was like pretty bad conditions and i was like look mate my boy's going to come pick me up in a couple minutes like we'll give you some food and he's like sweet you fed the robber yeah so then the boys came and then we ended up giving a lift back.

[470] What a nice story.

[471] Yeah.

[472] It's going to be a movie one day that.

[473] This whole thing's going to be a movie.

[474] You get to Angola and then you get robbed at gunpoint.

[475] Yeah, robbed at gunpoint and Angola.

[476] That was...

[477] Day 50.

[478] Yeah.

[479] I mean, they were a bit more successful that time.

[480] They got a lot of our stuff.

[481] What happened?

[482] So, around 30K, I was on a lunch break.

[483] We sat in the van.

[484] Me, Jarrow, Terry, my support team.

[485] And we were just chatting shit like usual.

[486] Two, three guys pull up on a motorbike, two of them get off, come up the side of the van, crack the door open, gun, and all of our faces.

[487] Started speaking in Portuguese.

[488] Then they took a bunch of stuff.

[489] Yeah, that was a nightmare.

[490] To be honest, they got passports, money, cameras, drone, phones.

[491] It was long.

[492] have you processed this stuff i don't know i don't think so man like the the the thing is is these things happen but you're on the road again the next day so you know because you say it's such a casual sort of blasé way but if someone had a gun pointed at them most people would would be in therapy trying to resolve the sort of complex set of psychological implications that causes and when I asked you the question I could see your demeanor changes a little bit because it's not as blasé as you you sometimes make out is it I don't know man I guess it just is what it is I haven't really I don't know if I deeped it that much at this point you know we're over it nothing bad happened in the end I mean we got robbed but no one died you lost the cashier the equipment and your passports which is probably the most annoying thing of all those things yeah that that cost us like at least two or three weeks in terms of going to re -get visas and things.

[493] Day 50, you get to day 100, and you're day 102.

[494] When I say day 102, does it bring back any memories?

[495] He's a couple, yeah, a couple.

[496] Congo.

[497] D -R -C, yeah, that was one hell of an experience, that.

[498] You described this is probably the hardest part of the whole trip.

[499] Probably the highest part of my whole life.

[500] Really?

[501] You've not talked about this much in detail either, for some reason.

[502] So we made a YouTube series online which kind of followed the whole thing it's the only YouTube video that I didn't release because it was quite I mean it was quite it's a difficult one at the time as well because it was the hardest time for us as a team and we there was a lot of arguments a lot of fallouts around that and I didn't think that the video that we made was really what told the story how I wanted it to be told.

[503] What happened?

[504] So, yeah.

[505] You're emotional about this.

[506] Yeah, I mean, it, yeah, that whole thing was, was mad.

[507] So we got to DRC, I think day 100, we got to DRC.

[508] It was hostile from the start.

[509] We'd, we'd been warned loads about it, about the country.

[510] It's one of the poorest countries in the world.

[511] It's quite known for corrupt.

[512] and we've been sent the videos of the craziest things happening there.

[513] And I think we were all a bit apprehensive.

[514] You've been sent what kind of videos?

[515] The craziest people getting chopped up, all kinds of stuff.

[516] Yeah, it was, it definitely, I mean, I don't know how much I can really, what I would say about DRC is that we spent a few days there.

[517] my experience was very subjective.

[518] It's a massive country, loads of people, loads of great people, but my personal experience of the small amount of time I spent there was a bit rough.

[519] But, yeah, I mean, we landed in the country, crossed the border.

[520] It was a very chaotic border town.

[521] We had people from the get -go very not very happy to see us at all, shouting at me whilst I was running, trying to, like, exploit us for money, officials, all this kind of stuff, trying to get money out of us.

[522] And we'd heard about, all of this from people traveling so we kind of half knew what we were rolling into but it was it really created a kind of atmosphere that was difficult challenging um yeah i mean the day before day 102 we had a guy come up to guy came up to me with a rock spikes in the rock and he was like i'm gonna like smash your edin with this when you're speaking french i don't really get it but Harry spoke for him.

[523] So he's basically threatening us with this big spiky rock that he had in his hand saying like, give me three quid, the equivalent of three quid where I'm going to like start smashing you all up.

[524] And so we gave him a quid in the end because I'm not getting my head smashed in over three quid, but also I didn't want to like get word around that there was a bunch of people just throwing money around to anyone that would threaten them.

[525] So yeah, I mean, woke up day, hundred and two, I was running 100K that day, and I felt very anxious from the get -go, really, like, really finding it difficult already.

[526] Ran, left the boys in the morning like I can normally do, ran 20K, then ran another 20K, start, we took a turn off onto a dirt road, so the boys had planned this route, took, went down this dirt road, then the van.

[527] basically this port van couldn't get to me so the boys sent a guy on a motorbike and so I'm running along this dirt buck and this guy on a motorbike keeps trying to stop me and I was so like scatty already that I was I didn't want to stop for he was trying to get me to stop and I was like now I'd had it the day before people trying to stop me on motorbikes and it was all a bit didn't didn't feel great like I was I was quite anxious about the whole thing And anyway, eventually I did stop.

[528] He gave me a note that basically said, like, the boys can't get round to where we were going to meet, but they're going to go to this other place and meet there.

[529] And it was about 20K through the jungle, no roads, like, barely even a path.

[530] I was just kind of like whacking my way through bushes to get to this meeting point where I was going to try and find the boys, run out of water, phone has got no signal.

[531] and I'm going through these these bushes stumble into this village and I think because of the experience that I already had in the first couple days of DRC I was very much like I just want to get my head down and get through these places as quickly as possible with less fuss as possible so I'm running through this village and like people shout out to me and stuff and I'm like this is happening all the time now just carry around going care of I'm going but I think I upset quite a lot of the village by doing that and then the chivalry and then the challenge chief of the village comes over and then you know before you know i'm like surrounded by half the village they're all like very upset they don't get one they don't get who i am what i'm doing why i'm there and they start trying to like say that i need to give them money i didn't have anything on me so then like the chief of the village kind of got some people away and he got two blokes took me out into the bush with machetes and i was bricking it yeah i was absolutely bricking it um thinking like every all every my mind's totally racing at this point i'm like what like what is going on here why why am i going out to the bush like this doesn't make any sense like is this a shakedown like what is the worst happening don't know and then got out into the bush i basically emptied on my bags had some biscuits gave them the biscuits and then just darted and then i was just like right beeline for this meeting spot and And mine's totally frazzed at this point.

[532] I've got, I'm hearing motorbikes coming.

[533] I'm hearing people.

[534] I'm jumping in bushes, like, totally just kind of off it here.

[535] Kind of get through this jungle bit.

[536] Get to this meeting spot.

[537] The boys aren't there.

[538] Now I'm really like, oh, this is bad, because I'm about 50 -something K in.

[539] I'm dehydrated.

[540] I've got no water.

[541] I've got no signal.

[542] and I don't know where the boys are, I don't know how to get to them, and I'm in the middle of the jungle, and I know that there's, like, I've upset a lot of people in the local area and I've just ran away from them all.

[543] I'm like, oh, like, this is bad news.

[544] Anyway, I figured out that the tarmac, the last nine bit of tarmac was, I think about 15 or 20K away, and I was like, I reckon I can just about make it there.

[545] And if I make it, it there then that makes sense that the boys that that's the last bit they could get to.

[546] So had you just sprinted away from the guys with the machetes?

[547] Pretty much, yeah.

[548] Yeah.

[549] Like it was, I, they walked me out into the bush and I didn't really, I didn't know what was happening but I was just so like, like this is bad, gave them biscuits and just died and then like I've ran off and I can just hear loads of like commotion going on and I'm just running through this jungle.

[550] it's all quite it's yeah I mean it's all quite mad like adrenaline going through the roof um I was like were you scared yeah I was petrified man I was absolutely petrified I think what didn't help is that I didn't understand any of the language like Lingala the local language I didn't know any French either which would have helped um and I didn't understand I didn't have very good understanding of the culture or anything so I think if I went for it again a lot of these things would have been rationalised in my mind easier but because I was so unaware of the situation and I'd had all of these horror stories built up in my head and the first couple of days in DRC was quite rough and I was just like in this spot where it didn't take much for me to kind of just assume the worst of everything so it really just got me into a place where I was like quite scatty um but yeah I mean I find I find I find this I go see the bit of time I can not right let's head there it's about you know two hours away I could probably make it there and as I'm going there I'm going down this dirt path another two blokes on a motorbike pull up and you know I'm I was like this I just don't want any part of this they're trying to stop me you know mine's totally gone and they they were trying to communicate it to me like oh we're going to take you to your friends blah blah blah and i'm i'm thinking about i'm like if these guys who are these guys sent from they sent from this village or that village is there like a bush telegraph of there's a white guy running around here he's upset like don't get him kind of thing so i'm like nah not doing it blah blah blah thinking you know the boys they send a note with the driver if it's from if if it's from them and this got these guys had no note and i was like uh but he was you know getting left Later and later, I was like, I've got no water, I've got no signal.

[551] I've got no way of nowhere the boys are.

[552] They're probably no further than 10 or 20k away.

[553] So if I'm, if I get on this bike and I'm on the bike for longer than half an hour or an hour, then I know that it's bad news.

[554] So I just thought, fuck it, get on the bike.

[555] How long were those two men on the bike following you and asking you to get on the bike?

[556] A while, like probably, we probably about 20 minutes.

[557] So yeah, got on the bike.

[558] bike half an hour went by then now went by i start like kicking off i'm getting off the bike i'm having a go at them but like the language barriers just with no one understand the word anyone's saying and then yeah ended up spending seven hours on the motorbike going into the jungle which was like terrible seven hours seven hours yeah what goes through your mind in those seven hours i thought well i assumed after about an hour and a half that i was like okay well i am getting kidnapped then like we're this is it you know and then i was thinking rationally i was like had such limited knowledge about d rc or any of this kind of stuff i was like they're probably just gonna they'd probably just want money but then you also stuff like well maybe they're just going to kill you and the stories that i'd heard about d rc and that wasn't the craziest thing you know you like people get stabbed for fiver literally like a couple of quid people get stabbed um people get killed for the you know a watch so i was really trying to what like i was really trying to be rational about the situation but just like very quite quite emotional as well and then i mean at for the last few hours i was just like you know what god has for me He has for me, you know, whatever it is, it is, and that's fine.

[559] And I was just trying to be like, you know, it's out of my hands.

[560] But it was very scary.

[561] I was, like, so nervous, like, just shaking.

[562] They took me to this village in the jungle.

[563] Later night, no electricity.

[564] It's like wooden little shacks with tin corrugated roofs and stuff and got me off the bike, took me into this little hut.

[565] then loads of the men of the village came into the hut they were arguing about money and this kind of stuff and then the second chief of the village walks in and says to me like you speak to me in english very slowly and he understood a few words and i said to him like this is big mistake you know like call my friend and he speaks french and like and then he can come and like we've got money in we can sort it out and then they spoke on the phone and then basically we agreed like the boys would come we got the money and then it took the boys like I think about 36, 48 hours to get there because it was so rural there was no roads going there it was all dirt paths they tried to rent some motorbikes got scammed then they ended up trying to borrow the police a police chiefs four by four who also scammed us so yeah so then i mean the boys got there eventually we gave everyone some money and then i was free to go i was just looking as you're talking about how fast seven hours is and for people in the uk seven hours is london to edinburgh yeah it's not in d i see so if i go from london to edinburgh yeah that's seven hours just to give people an idea of like how long that is on the back of a motorbike with strange men going through the middle of the jungle so it's like little tiny paths that are going up and down through rivers through over mountains for seven hours seven hours yeah i was like gripping on the side i was absolutely done in by the end of it and you got to that village they wanted they wanted money did they they explain anything did they say anything to you about who they were and i think i think they were were, I think they were actually just, they were more scared about who I was, why I was there and all the rest of it.

[566] And the, I mean, after the, after the, after the phone call with the team, things seemed quite settled.

[567] Like, they, they, they, they, they, and they, I think they, you know, it was, I was, I was, I was just in a state of, like, totally, totally whacked.

[568] What do you mean?

[569] just exhausted but like petrified and I was just very nervous around everything twitchy you know yeah have you suffered with anxiety I don't know I think I don't think so but like I do obviously I'm human I do know what anxiety feels like and I do get it sometimes but I was I was anxious then for sure you're speaking to emily back home your partner throughout um the journey on most days but for this period of time sounds like you were out of communication with her yeah she seems like she was very very worried about you she was yeah in fact she told she told us on a research call that she thought you had died yeah i mean i thought i was going to die too did you actually yeah genuinely thought you were going to die yeah and how did you how do you sort of rational that thought how do you deal with that thought when you and what comes to mind like what are you thinking if you really believe you know I think I'm going to die here like I mean it's different I guess it's different for me I was just like you know if this is the way that God wants it then I guess it is that's it you know and there's more for me elsewhere that's how I was what that's how I was trying to make sense of it in my brain were you thinking about people back home yeah I would I mean I was thinking about, I was thinking about, like, all the things that I wish I had the chance to repair that I haven't, like, in relationship with my parents.

[570] I was thinking about all the things that, you know, I wanted to do with my life that I wouldn't be able to do.

[571] I was thinking about what it would do to, you know, everyone that got myself killed in the Congo for just trying to run the neck for Africa.

[572] I felt stupid because I was like, you know, this was, these were like mistakes that had been made that were like quite, it should have been quite easily preventable that we didn't do.

[573] And, you know, that's opening my responsibility as well.

[574] So it was, yeah, it was a hard few hours.

[575] You're thinking about things that you should have repaired with your parents.

[576] It's interesting in moments like that.

[577] People always talk about how they have a. a retrospective like clarity on their life and their priorities that most of us will never understand because we've never been in a situation where we've genuinely believed there was a chance that we weren't going to make it out.

[578] When you say you were thinking about how you should have repaired relationships with your parents, what do you mean?

[579] I don't know.

[580] I guess it's like you said, it was a moment of clarity where I was like, I've probably wasted a lot of years there.

[581] holding on to things that weren't necessary, you know, for bullshit reasons.

[582] And, like, life's too short for all that.

[583] What had you been holding on to?

[584] Like, resentment and pride and, you know, not trying to understand all, like, avoiding things and not trying to connect with people that love me and these kind of things.

[585] you think these are your last hours you've obviously got a person there in your life who has loved you and has shown you a different way to connect and to be into intimacy and all of those things which is emily are you thinking about emily in those moments as well yeah i was yeah i mean i was thinking of like all the all the things that we talked about like our future together and everything that we wanted to build and like having kids together and all these things that just felt like they were just and how like just felt like I was letting her down and you know I wasn't like delivering the things that I was going to run the length of everything's going to be all right like don't worry about you know all these dangers now it's going to be fine babe and uh yeah I knew how much, how hard that was, that time was for her as well.

[586] I mean, especially I'm in the thick of it, you know.

[587] I'm in the thick of it.

[588] She's like at home just to think about it all the time.

[589] And there was a few moments like that when we didn't have signal and things.

[590] Your boys eventually find you.

[591] They pay off the guys in that village and they let you go.

[592] Mm -hmm.

[593] doesn't really stop there though does it because there's so much now to process and to figure out and to kind of that was i think the hardest point for us as a team of the mission was like the aftermath of that it's very difficult because i think we were all struggling everyone was right at their limit and probably because that no one had any spare energy to think about anyone else in that situation it was all like well i'm struggling so that's it you know and yeah I mean there's a good few arguments people don't really know about this moment no because people like me that just watch from YouTube and from social media we just think oh they're they're all getting on it's all fine oh he's piss and blood again ha ha funny but when I when I did those research calls and spoke to members of your team and spoke to you know people around you and even members of the team that were out there with you This was really a falling out amongst the team.

[594] No one in the public ever got to see.

[595] It's difficult one to talk about because I don't want to throw anyone under the bus or paint anyone in a bad like, bad like we were all ultimately just trying our best.

[596] I think for me, what I recognised that I did wrong in that situation was I set us up in a bad way.

[597] Like I'd hired so heavily on content side because I knew that we started with no money.

[598] money, we had to get content out there to get brands to sponsor us that I basically recruited free people that were almost entirely there for content reasons, being able to make YouTube videos, take photos for a core documentary, this kind of thing.

[599] I completely blindsided the logistics and element and like having knowledge of Africa and all of this kind of stuff.

[600] I just thought that's a luxury we can't afford right now.

[601] Because of that, I'd ended up asking a support team that were mostly there for content to basically be like logistics and African logistics experts and that's put them in position it's obviously going to be really difficult so yeah I mean that the whole situation could have could have been avoided with different different plan and I recognize that and I thought off the back of that I was like right I'm going to get a four by four because the van can't travel up any of these dirt roads and I'm going to hire two new people, one of which is going to be like a proper logistics guy that's going to get us through with these tough situations.

[602] A team member actually departed around this time as well.

[603] Yeah, that was a difficult one.

[604] We actually, we had a big argument.

[605] Me and Harry had a big argument on just after this Congo thing.

[606] We were travelling back through these villages.

[607] He'd obviously had a rough time as well.

[608] He'd been scammed for motorbikes, had this dealings with the police chief and as we were coming back he was buying like fags and alcohol and stuff in all these little tiny remote villages and I had an issue with it because we're going through some of the poorest places in the world there's kids running around with like malnourish bellies kind of feed themselves and you know as your opinions if we bowl through these villages drinking and smoking blah blah blah then it's giving off the sign and we've got a lot of money to spare and that's why we're getting scammed so much for extortioners amounts of money.

[609] So I had an issue with it and I told him and I probably didn't say it in a way that was how good leadership would say it, you know.

[610] So we had a big argument about that.

[611] I've obviously just been in this rural village for a couple days.

[612] I'm already, I'm tightly strong already.

[613] So is he.

[614] And then we get back to the other boys.

[615] These guys had no idea what just happened and they were all struggling themselves.

[616] So they were very much, everyone was just concentrating themselves and they were all kind of like everyone was a bit pissed off of each other and then we had a meeting and i just blew up just blew up started shouting everyone throwing chairs about completely lost my call which is not not obviously not the way to act um and yeah i mean it was it was it was awkward a few days after that i was i just went straight back to running wanted to get out of d rc as quickly as possible.

[617] It was everyone was in eggshells.

[618] We got to Cabinda, which is an Angolan Exclave.

[619] And then I said to, I was like, to Harry, you're going on holiday.

[620] And I said to the other boys, you'll all be going on a let at some point.

[621] I think at that point I'd realized that for me, I'm running every day.

[622] My body's very stressed.

[623] I'm very stressed in general.

[624] I'm managing a lot of things and I can't have the people around me also being at the edge of what they can do because then it just leaves me in a totally fucked spot.

[625] So I tried to kind of put some reorganise, reshuffle things so that wouldn't happen by sending everyone a holiday.

[626] Hired Gus, hired Jamie, another Eddard to take some workload off stand because the Giza was working like 18 hours a day trying to get two YouTube videos out a week whilst recording it and producing it.

[627] I was like, right, we need to change something there.

[628] Gus, ex -power from Dutch military.

[629] He'd cycled up and down Africa by himself.

[630] Absolute beast of a bloke.

[631] I was like, he's coming in.

[632] He's going to do our logistics.

[633] And one of the best recruits we've ever made.

[634] So that's kind of how the aftermath happened.

[635] I'm going to let you in on a little secret.

[636] What is in the Diary of a CEO Cup?

[637] This cup that sits in front of me. when I interview these people, sometimes for three hours, and sometimes three people a day.

[638] And the answer is this, perfect ed.

[639] I invested in the company on Dragon's Den.

[640] And since then, they've gone from an idea to the fastest growing energy drink in the UK.

[641] It is a matcher energy drink, and it is absolutely delicious.

[642] But that's not why I choose to drink it on this podcast.

[643] The reason I choose to drink it is because it gives me what I call all -day energy.

[644] I don't get the same crashes that I used to get with other energy drinks.

[645] If you're in the middle of a conversation or you're in the middle of a conversation, the middle of a talk on stage or in the boardroom, the last thing you want to do is have a crash.

[646] You don't want jitters and you need focus.

[647] And that is why they now sponsor this podcast.

[648] Not only is it delicious, but it gives me a significant competitive advantage.

[649] If you haven't tried it, go down to a Tesco, go to a waitrose, all go online and use the code Diary 10 at checkout and you'll get 10 % off.

[650] And when you do try it, let me know how you get on.

[651] But it's not all smooth sailing.

[652] I mean, as you continue on, you have all of these issues you have a bunch more health issues your back starts to give out i think around uh around two day 205 and 206 you completely stopped because you had back issues but the back was probably the worst injury i don't it's not even healed still but basically my back started to season up and i would get like shooting nerve pains coming down my leg and it would just totally like totally jar and I wouldn't be able to move or yeah I mean god knows what happened there I mean there's a chance that you've done permanent damage to your back probably yeah I mean I ran the marathon on Sunday and it was still going a bit so did you have to stop no but it's basically been on and off on and off very painful for the last kind of six well whenever that was to day 205 so since then Emily said around that time that sort of 200 day mark you were like you were pretty done.

[653] What does she mean by that?

[654] I was in a lot of pain, like every day.

[655] So I really just wanted it to be over at that point.

[656] And I still had like five months to go.

[657] You still have five months to go.

[658] Yeah.

[659] Was that, I've heard you answer this question before, but what day was the closest to quitting?

[660] The closest where you thought, do you know what, maybe?

[661] The thought, the, The only time I ever really had the thought was in the Congo.

[662] Really?

[663] On the motorbike, yeah.

[664] Like, that was the only time I actually ever actually thought, like, why am I doing this?

[665] This is stupid.

[666] You know, like, why am I going to get myself killed of this?

[667] And it was a fleeting fort, came in.

[668] And then I thought, I ain't got a fucking choice.

[669] I've got to do it now anyway.

[670] December time, which is day two for one.

[671] You're in, I think, the Ivory Coast.

[672] And the Ivory Coast think you're a spy.

[673] So I think they took you to the local police station because they thought you were a spy.

[674] Yeah, they were very confused.

[675] Did they tell you that they thought you were a spy?

[676] No, did you just kind of piss that together?

[677] Yeah, it was more piecing that together.

[678] They were very confused about her.

[679] It was why I was there, why I was running in the middle of the night.

[680] And, yeah, they made sure they did all their checks on me so that I wasn't any suspect individual.

[681] January comes around the new year.

[682] How do you celebrate Christmas out there and that, all that stuff?

[683] it was back to basics kind of Christmas we had um chickens on the fire and it got a bit pissed missed the family yeah christmas would have been a bit of a weird one for my family anyway but yeah like um i mean it was business as usual i was i think it was pretty much focused on the job and had a couple drinks and that was that one uh a day shortly after that um that really i think things took a bit of a turn in terms of publicity was when you reached Algeria and you had the issues with your visa because Algeria um as we said as a country that doesn't grant visas unless you're in your home country currently and so you were advised by the FCO not to travel there um I believe I can't remember a lot of people advised us not to travel travel there and the Algerian authorities were saying absolutely no to you to get to you getting a visa so you decided to start an online campaign to try and like it's such a it's such an interesting thing because very few people would have a country say we're not going to give you a visa you cannot come into our country and you decide that the way to overcome that is with some tweets yeah it was bold strategy we were strategising for a couple weeks before that like right this you know we are backs against the wall here what are we going to do and we kind of you know, Gus and Stan were putting together these kind of plans to get residency and Mauritania and then potentially, you know, do all of these little things to try and somehow get a visa.

[684] And I just got to a point where I said, like, boys, let's just hell marry it.

[685] Just get the, just, let's just blast it on socials because it's going to take someone right at the top to to say yes you know swing for defenses and that's what happened um you launched this kind of online campaign led predominantly by twitter to get someone in algeria someone high up or a politician in the UK to speak to Algeria yeah the campaign goes pretty viral everyone's posting it in the UK so much so that even Elon Musk tweeted at one point yeah yeah yeah basically saying that this is what this platform's for yeah yeah yeah that's sick and then Algeria tweet you basically saying we'll give you a visa on the spot which is mad isn't that mad actually mad when you think about where you came from you've got Elon Musk tweeting and the like Algeria's Twitter account a tweet out you going come on in we're going to we're going to change our laws so that you can come through here and Elon Musk's tweeting that is just mad it was mad it was absolutely crazy and then you get through you get your visa you're able to enter Algeria The Sahara Desert was another big challenge for you.

[686] You get to day 313.

[687] The truck breaks down in the Sahara Desert, 250 kilometers away from the nearest road.

[688] What I found so interesting about this little chapter in the story was that when we spoke to Stan, who was part of your team on the research call, he says that you weren't really concerned because everyone just assumed that everything would be fine.

[689] We'd been through much worse.

[690] Stan said that the resilience they had built up was accumulative, and gradually they became less and less concerned about sex.

[691] setbacks.

[692] And I read that and it was really inspiring to me because it says something about life.

[693] We all have these like subjective setbacks that we can like fall into a dark hole thinking or like the end.

[694] And it could just be like Jenny at work sat in our seat.

[695] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[696] Whereas you're in the Sahara desert and your truck is broken down 250 kilometers from the nearest road.

[697] The repair team can't fix it.

[698] And you guys just shrug.

[699] It'll be fine.

[700] Barely even four day, mate.

[701] Can't I. Really?

[702] Yeah.

[703] Yeah.

[704] I remember just thinking ah that's a minor we'll figure that out because you had so much evidence that you guys had been able to figure out so many other things yeah and i think like by the end as well like the team was so it was slick like the way everyone was operating we everyone knew what they had to do no one needed you know no one needed telling we all just got on with our jobs and the amount of output for four people it's crazy that really is what resilience is people always ask like how do you become more resilient but it seems to your story taught me that it's like go through some difficult shit together and come out the other end yeah and you'll have evidence yeah and even if you you know go through some difficult shit and it doesn't work out then you've got a few lessons in there right so at least you survived right yeah that's a lesson um and then you get to the final leg of the trip and all of the people around you tell me that there was a noticeable increase in your sort of happiness and demeanour when you could start to see the finish line.

[705] Definitely.

[706] In your mind, you get sort of, what, two weeks out and the social media interest goes pretty fucking crazy.

[707] Yeah, it did, yeah.

[708] Yeah, even like mainstream media kind of picked up, I think, the last few days.

[709] Last few days.

[710] Yeah.

[711] The whole of the UK only had one thing to talk about.

[712] Really?

[713] Yeah.

[714] I'm sure it was, you know, very much the case in other parts of the world.

[715] I saw news reports in America and other parts of the world, but it felt like back here in the UK, the UK was just talking about one thing.

[716] Really?

[717] It was following you, you know this, surely your girlfriend and stuff must have told you.

[718] It was fucking pandemonium.

[719] It's every social, you know, I'd go on social media and anyone that I knew was, was posting about you running that last leg, driving money to those charities.

[720] That mean a whole lot to you.

[721] As you come into that last leg, that last day, crowds of people, like hundreds of people flew out there.

[722] It's nuts.

[723] Absolutely nice.

[724] And they're running with you.

[725] A lot of them, I've heard from some of your team, I think of Stan that was saying, to me a lot of people flew out there but they were keeling over and like collapsing on the side of the road because i don't think they anticipated that this isn't london mate it was so funny like um tunisia at that time wasn't even that hot but coming from the uk everyone's just absolutely cooked and you um you come into that that last day and your dad is there as well yeah yeah it was emotional day man i met my dad came and ran He can only bang a two or three care out these days, but he came around and, um, like put his arm around me and that and, you know, it was special.

[726] Your relationship with him started to pick up, as you got closer to the finish line, it seems.

[727] Yeah.

[728] I've heard that from a few people.

[729] Yeah.

[730] Throughout the whole mission, really, I think.

[731] But Emily's definitely a big part of helping that.

[732] What was it like to see him?

[733] And where did you see him?

[734] Was it on the last day?

[735] On the last day, um, yeah, we ran a little bit, a couple tears, just like, what were the tears for?

[736] I don't know, like, I guess it was like a signal that it was like, this is actually over now, you know, like, my dad's here.

[737] And like, you know, everything, everything that I've been through, but also like everything he'd been through, everything his dad's been through, it felt like it just felt like a moment, you know.

[738] He was proud of you, very, very proud of you.

[739] Very, very proud of you.

[740] We got to speak to him on the phone.

[741] And hearing how proud of you he was was one of the most moving things I actually, of this whole experience of speaking to your friends and family, hearing just how proud your father is of you is.

[742] It moved me when I heard it.

[743] I actually, um...

[744] I couldn't believe it was my son, you know, crossing the line and, um, and it was sort of like not real sort of thing.

[745] You know, it's like, you know, but it took a while to see it, still sinking in now, really.

[746] And he went on to say, I couldn't be more proud of my son.

[747] Yeah, it's nice.

[748] It's powerful when your dad says that, isn't it?

[749] Always.

[750] Always.

[751] You crossed the line.

[752] How does that feel?

[753] Oh, yeah.

[754] I mean, that finish line honestly felt like a fucking mystical thing that.

[755] It was never coming for the longest amount of time.

[756] So the fact that it finally came was just like, wow, it's finally over, you know?

[757] Like, we actually did it.

[758] So, yeah, very grateful.

[759] It's quite complex emotions.

[760] I can see it in your face.

[761] What are those emotions?

[762] I guess it's just grateful that it all worked out, you know.

[763] And like all the hard work paid off.

[764] and all the hard times paid off your girlfriend said that you you walked over to the edge of the water and you reached the northern most point of Africa and you saluted and to her that salute meant more than just a sort of random token gesture it was a salute in many respects to say you know there's certain chapters closed in my life now and there's certain things that I've I've proven I think maybe the right word there is proven yeah I think so hopefully what have you proven I guess I'm capable you know I can do it your mum was there as well the whole gang the whole team was that the best feeling of the whole journey that that end moment with your family was because I heard you described that the start was amazing the first day and in that moment I imagine it's overwhelming for so many reasons it's so much to process so overwhelming man people there and screaming and the cameras and the sky news are running alongside you it's like it looked back shit crazy i was it was totally mad i think the finish line was one of them things that was just so over like i don't know if you had it like when there's so much going on and it's so overwhelming you kind of like you it almost feels like an out -of -body experience and you're someone that's like lived most of their life in relative isolation yeah You like being alone.

[765] Yeah.

[766] Emily told me this.

[767] She goes, I think he's happiest when he's, when no one's there.

[768] Yeah, I do like being alone.

[769] I do like it.

[770] Interesting still is like you get back to the UK and you've been running this crazy, you've done this crazy thing for more than a year, right?

[771] It was 300.

[772] 352 days.

[773] I was out there for 14 months.

[774] 14 months.

[775] You get back to the UK, you land.

[776] The weather's different.

[777] Obviously, society is completely different.

[778] Now everybody knows who you are here.

[779] So wherever you go, someone's going, oh, hi, this guy, I have a fucking picture, I had.

[780] Like, how is that?

[781] Still think I'm kind of working that out at the moment.

[782] Don't really know.

[783] It's definitely different.

[784] But everyone's so nice.

[785] And I think, like, the stories of people that, like, they come up to me and they're like, you know, I was running the marathon on Sunday and people were like, you're the reason I'm hearing stuff.

[786] I'm like, that's kind of mad.

[787] but that's sick as well you know so are you feeling overwhelmed yeah definitely how do you know because I'm I'm trying to distance myself from everyone and everything at the moment yeah like I yeah just I think um my social batteries run out quite quick and once that happens I'm just like well I need to be alone like immediately done can't speak done and you're getting all these emails now.

[788] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[789] And it's just like, well, I think there's a lot of things happening as well that I'm not, that I don't know how to handle properly, like emails and all these other things.

[790] You don't have management, you don't have anyone, an agent, nothing.

[791] I kind of need a moment to work out what I actually want to do.

[792] I think, but it's fine.

[793] Like, I'm not running Ultramarrafing, sorry, does it anymore.

[794] I can't, like, it's all right.

[795] You know, when you were running that marathon, you ran the London Marathon, like two days or something yeah that's a very public place to be yeah i didn't quite anticipate anticipate that i am i had some people that saw you down there and they were a little bit concerned really yeah because you looked a little bit overwhelmed yeah it was a little bit there was just a lot of people grabbing at you and stuff yeah yeah i mean people are nice so like they would they only had nice things to say to me it was just like so much like stimulation you know what i mean i like it's just i was like i'm not used to this it's it i find it fascinating so you you're at the very top of this mountain in terms of like publicity and attention and everyone's screaming and grabbing it you and wants you for stuff you've just done this incredible adrenaline inducing feet running the length of africa there's all of these chemicals in your body the adrenaline the endorphins all that stuff that comes from endurance sports yeah and then done done zero like stop yeah how's that um my body needed it yeah it's absolutely you know bashed in but it's also it was it's been quite difficult to i had the like such a solid routine every day for a year was like get up run break eat run do the same you know every single day and now the schedule is like wildly different it's like okay wake up interview here or go and do this and then this and you know meet this person chat to that person and uh i'm kind of missing that that routine of exercising all the time kind of want to start that back up again pretty soon maybe maybe not 60 or 70k a day but like i need i actually need that you know so how's your mental health i think i think it's fine i just need to get like i just need get a few things sorted like I haven't got a place to live yet or I don't really I don't know the immediate next steps like career wise what I'm going to do and a lot of things have changed obviously so it's just working out a lot of all of this stuff but I think when there's that many uncertainties in your life it's always going to create a certain level of like mental challenges so I just need to figure them out and then I'll be all right you know you must get bored of people asking you what's next because this is what everyone asks when anyone does it when anyone does anything interesting yeah what's next they want to know yeah yeah the next challenge i have got a lot of ideas i think like one of the big things that i would be really what i really love to do is in some way be part of like documenting other people's journeys when they go on you know they're starting from somewhere and they've got this big thing that they want to do and just like either helping them or being like in some way do it uh and uh and So I'd really love to try and do more of that.

[796] The last year as well, one of the things that I struggled with is it was so much everything was geared towards basically helping me run and I've had enough of that.

[797] You know, all of my support team were there basically to facilitate me running as far as I can every day and it would be nice to do things for other people more than just everyone doing things for me. That's an interesting thought.

[798] You've had enough of that.

[799] Enough of it being about you.

[800] Yeah.

[801] It's interesting, Russ, because you're someone that quite clearly through your story likes being alone and like low -key under the radar, do their own thing, spend time in my own head.

[802] And then exactly that, doing exactly that in you running the length of Africa, being alone out there in the Sahara Desert alone, has built this massive fucking audience.

[803] Yeah.

[804] And all these people watching you that are now like very much compromising.

[805] respects, obviously there's so much privilege and stuff that comes with it, but they're compromising the very thing that you loved the most, which is you running from London to Asia alone, Asia to London alone, on your own with the hammock.

[806] It's never quite going to be the same, you know what I'm saying?

[807] You can't even walk down the street in London.

[808] You're like a really distinctive, no recognised as a guy as well because the ginger beard and stuff.

[809] Yeah.

[810] Yeah, well, It will die down, like, eventually.

[811] So I think it's going to be all right.

[812] It's just different.

[813] Yeah, it's just different.

[814] It's just different.

[815] For now.

[816] New set of problems, I guess.

[817] To manage and stuff.

[818] Yeah.

[819] You did all of this, you know, to have the experience, you inspired all these people along the way.

[820] And obviously, central to this was the running charity.

[821] They do incredible work for people, kind of like yourself that are in that situation where you're looking for guidance.

[822] Yeah.

[823] You're looking for a sense of purpose and meaning.

[824] etc etc um how much how much what was the goal fundraising goal yeah what's your fundraising a million a million yeah and what are you on at the moment when i checked yesterday i think it was 970 i'm not exactly sure what it is now you've been down to see the work that this charity do haven't i've worked with the charity for like years you know i used to before i left i was the adventure guys so I take people, take groups of people up climbing mountains or out into nature and we do stuff.

[825] I did stuff with fundraisers who were raising money for the charity.

[826] I mean, I did the ages to London run for the running charity as well.

[827] So I've been involved for four or five years.

[828] Well, I have to say, Russ, you inspired millions of people.

[829] You don't know this, but like when I'm in the gym and I start thinking about quitting, the whole time when you're in Africa, I was like, fucking Russ is running three marathons today.

[830] So, like, what the hell am I doing thinking about quitting?

[831] And it was this thought in the back of my head that helped me over and over again when I was in difficult moments, when I'm in the gym, when I'm thinking about quitting, when I'm thinking about not even doing the workout.

[832] And I'm like, that guy's going to be up today running another 20, well, 60K or 100K.

[833] Yeah.

[834] So it was even like this motivational force for me in my life.

[835] And I'm really, really appreciative of that.

[836] But I also know, because I've seen the messages and I've seen the DMs that for many people out there, that are Russ at 19, that don't.

[837] don't know the path forward, that don't have guidance, that don't have something to aim at, you've given them a blueprint for how to turn your life around.

[838] And there's, you've given 19 year old Russ, all the 19 year old Russ is out there, a blueprint for how to turn your life around.

[839] And you've given them evidence that it's possible.

[840] And people in that situation, as you are, they don't always believe it's possible.

[841] You described the hopelessness and the helplessness of that situation.

[842] That's exactly what you've done.

[843] And also, you've raised a shit ton of of money.

[844] Now your goal was to raise a million pounds, which is a ridiculous amount of money.

[845] So before we sat down, I made a few phone calls.

[846] You know, I'm an investor in a few companies and I'm on the board of a few companies.

[847] So I called Julian Hearn at Hewle and I said, listen, wouldn't it be great if Heel could get behind this and make sure he hit that target now?

[848] There you go.

[849] wow they've donated the remainder of the cash to you for your fundraising so you've hit the million pounds and we wanted to say a huge well done and congratulations on behalf of all of us here at the driver of me thank you so much man is is Emily who is Emily here there she is coming in yeah oh sweet thank you so much man no man thank you absolutely incredible and i know the the team at perfect ed here they've could you chuck me the um dackeray thing on here this one yeah again i'm an uh an invest in this company and uh we we have a partnership together they've also produced the hardest energy which is a limited edition, strawberry daquery flavoured, perfect head, which will be on sale.

[850] And I think the proceeds, much of the proceeds of this will be donated towards this campaign as well.

[851] It begs the question, why strawberry daughery?

[852] For some people that don't know, why strawberry daughery?

[853] I don't even know.

[854] He just ended up becoming a thing that I was saying towards, throughout the mission, I'd be like, get me to Tunisian beach for a strawberry dacri, and it was in my head and then we finally got it done, eh?

[855] And they're here as well.

[856] So we'll include the link to buy this in the description below.

[857] So anyone that wants to celebrate your incredible achievement with us will be able to do so.

[858] We do have a last tradition on this podcast.

[859] It's not usually how they end, but where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're going to be leaving at full.

[860] So if it's a good one.

[861] There's two questions.

[862] Interestingly, I'm going to ask you both questions because they're both applicable.

[863] Okay.

[864] So first question is, if there was a movie about your life, which I'm sure there will be, who would you want to play you?

[865] Ron Weezy.

[866] Okay.

[867] Okay, in question number two, what place do you feel the most comfortable in and why?

[868] One of the things that I just love doing the most is mid -run, going to Tesco, getting some snacks, and just sitting outside Tesco on the pavement eating my snacks.

[869] It's just my favourite place ever.

[870] Love doing that.

[871] Very relatable as always, Russ.

[872] Thank you so much, honestly.

[873] Everything I said then about the inspiration you've given me is completely true.

[874] and I know that there's so many people out there that feel the same way and you've made me want to aim higher in some of the things that I do in my life and pursue bigger challenges and really push myself to the limits because as you've proven in your life all of the good things are on the other side of some form of discomfort.

[875] The purpose, the meaning, the connection is you've proven.

[876] And like so many people at the moment in society are suffering with their mental health, with a lack of sort of a sense of meaninglessness and you're this like, this shining example for all of us, this North Star, this first step we have to take to go on that incredible journey.

[877] So thank you so much, Ross.

[878] Mate, thanks for everything you've done.

[879] Honestly, I can't thank you enough.

[880] You made it happen as well, so amazing.