Flightless Bird: Waffle House

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[13] I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America.

[14] And I want to figure out what makes this country tick.

[15] Now, a while back on flight this bird during the diners episode, Monica talked.

[16] talked about something I'd never heard of.

[17] When I was in high school, the Waffle House was the fight zone.

[18] That's where people would meet to fight.

[19] What?

[20] This is like an American movie.

[21] Friday night, after the movies, there's going to be a fight.

[22] Then everyone comes and watches.

[23] I'm a baby.

[24] I was always like, I hate this.

[25] Apparently a diner called Waffle House doubled as some kind of secret fight club for teenagers.

[26] Before this, I'd never even heard of Waffle.

[27] house.

[28] Something I've since come to learn is truly iconic in America.

[29] It is indeed marvelous.

[30] An irony -free zone where everything is beautiful and nothing hurts, where everybody, regardless of race, creed, color, or degree of inebriation, is welcomed.

[31] It's warm yellow glow, a beacon of hope and salvation, inviting the hungry, the lost, the seriously hammered all across the south to come inside.

[32] A place of safe, and nourishment.

[33] When Anthony Bourdain hit the Waffle House, he salivated over it.

[34] This is better than the French Lobby, man. After talking about the Waffle House on CNN, Bourdain was invited on the late show, where all he could do was Waffle on about Waffle House.

[35] More important than anything, I discovered the glories of the Waffle House.

[36] Our local delicacy.

[37] This is talk about Exotica.

[38] I had never been.

[39] It's apparently a place you could go, no matter how wrecked and obnoxious you are, or how late at night, they're nice to you.

[40] Clearly, this diner has a lot going for it, and millions of Americans agree.

[41] If you stacked all the sausage patties Waffle House served each day on top of each other, the sausage you stack would be four times the height of the Empire State Building.

[42] Each year it fries 25 ,000 miles worth of bacon strips, which is maybe less surprising when you factor in that Waffle House is open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

[43] I imagine those extreme opening hours go some way.

[44] to explaining why it can get occasionally raucous at Waffle House.

[45] I wanted to know how this iconic place came to be and what it means to America now.

[46] So, sidle up for some eggs and waffles and decide how you want those hash browns because this is the Waffle House episode.

[47] Flydless, flightless bird touchdown in America.

[48] I'm a flightless bird touchdown in America.

[49] I love Waffle House There's something controversial I want to get out of the way at the top of this episode and it's something I'm very self -conscious about for this episode I didn't go to Waffle House I was gonna ask you and we just need to say it at the front because I know that's insane like I know it's bonkers It's pretty bad but for some context about the show we make this every week right and every week it's like a new documentary and new people and I think I was in somewhere in Texas, and I knew this Waffle House episode was happening.

[50] I'd interviewed some people for it already, and I looked on Google Maps.

[51] There's a Waffle House down the road.

[52] Great.

[53] This is where I can slip into the Waffle House, get my little dictaphone out, get the folly that I love getting wherever I go, all that stuff.

[54] I had a couple of hours spare on that day to do my Waffle House.

[55] I went back into the maps, and I remembered that America is much bigger than New Zealand.

[56] And sometimes when you're looking at a map of America on Google Maps, something looks really close is actually like a three -hour drive away And so the Waffle House wasn't down the road It was really, really far And in this particular week Looked at the map, you didn't map it I put in Waffle House Yeah, it was my own incompetence using the map And forgetting that America is so big But you know, it's crazy as this show Because we make one a week And every week We're sort of working on five at once All at different stages of production And so it sounds like I'm making excuses for myself It does.

[57] And I am, but I just want to, it's a great episode coming up.

[58] But I'm going to rely on you, Monica, as someone that's been to a Waffle House to kind of inject that into the episode, because I just can't bring it.

[59] That's fine.

[60] Also, I don't think that's America's fault that you don't want to zoom in or out on your map.

[61] Or just click how many minutes.

[62] Yeah, I could have done a lot of things differently.

[63] When I was in L .A. and I typed in Waffle House.

[64] It was clearly very far away.

[65] I could see it was in a different state.

[66] When I was somewhere in Texas, I typed it in.

[67] And it looked like it was kind of in the same state.

[68] So I'm like, that's just down the road.

[69] In the same state?

[70] But I forgot that the state is so big here, especially Texas.

[71] Texas is so big.

[72] I'm from New Zealand.

[73] We have five million people.

[74] We're tiny.

[75] I know.

[76] How long does it take to get from one side of New Zealand to the other?

[77] At some parts of the country, it just takes a couple of hours and you're there.

[78] If you're at like a skinny part of New Zealand, if you're at the top, it would take maybe, on average, maybe, I've never done it.

[79] But coast to coast maybe five or six hours In certain parts of the country And you're there and you're across Wow The whole country Top to bottom A day and a half or something Okay Because we've got two islands North and South Right I feel like driving from Auckland To Wellington's about maybe 9 or 10 hours Okay But everything is doable You can drive most places in a day I would say in New Zealand You know It's like oh I want to go to Hamilton It's you know I'll be there in a day I want to go to Wellington Oh that'll be a day Everything's a day In America things are weeks sometimes weeks It's crazy out there So anyway That's why I didn't end up at a waffle house I had it planned But the production schedule It really got me I've been to A gazillion waffle houses And what's your vibe Because the feeling everyone I spoke to For my documentary There's a love of this place Huge love It feels so nostalgic It's so classic Like when you think diner, that's what you think.

[80] Because I've seen photos of it, of this fable place.

[81] And everyone looks the same.

[82] It's so simple.

[83] It is.

[84] You know what you're getting.

[85] You're not ever going to be disappointed.

[86] There's also Waffle House merchandise, which I find fascinating.

[87] You don't get McDonald's merch.

[88] Do you?

[89] So that, to me, if it's got merch, it shows that there's the real love for a place.

[90] Like kind of a cult around it.

[91] Yeah, completely.

[92] Yeah.

[93] I have a mug.

[94] I want a vintage.

[95] Waffle House shirt from the 80s.

[96] You should try eBay .com.

[97] I think I have, but I'll keep looking.

[98] That's actually been a real danger for me being in America, because in New Zealand I'd log into eBay, but shipping made it impossible.

[99] Like, you just wouldn't do it.

[100] eBay in America is dangerous because it's got everything on there, doesn't it?

[101] It has a lot.

[102] It sounds like an ad for eBay.

[103] It does.

[104] Maybe we should do an eBay episode.

[105] Sidebar, do you notice it in America, how much mail you're getting in the post?

[106] Oh, I mean, I have nothing to compare it to.

[107] Do you not get that much?

[108] It's insane.

[109] I called up my health insurance place because I'm sick to death of it and I want to switch to another one.

[110] I was on like the customer care line and I hung up before I finished the call because I was so annoyed at them.

[111] They weren't answering my question.

[112] Sort of your MO is what you do.

[113] I wanted to know how much it would cost me if I got, had some sort of shot, had some sort of emergency and an ambulance picked me up and took me to a thing that was out of my HMO range or whatever.

[114] I was saying, answer me. Answer me, just how much?

[115] And they say we can't tell.

[116] I'm like, you've got to know how much.

[117] Is there a maximum?

[118] Is there a minimum?

[119] Am I going to be bankrupted?

[120] Tell me. They wouldn't tell me. Well, you'll have a deductible.

[121] But here's the problem.

[122] Why aren't either of you listening to me about this ever?

[123] PPO.

[124] You cannot get an HMO.

[125] You know what I discovered?

[126] There's another thing called an EPO.

[127] It's in between an HMO and a PPO.

[128] And you can Oh look This is another episode Anyway my point is I hung up in anger Because they wouldn't answer my question Since then I've got three letters From that insurer Saying you called us Do you have any questions?

[129] Call us back I'm collecting mail from the insurer I'm also collecting all the mail I get From credit card companies For an episode Because I want to physically show you How crazy this is But every other day I get a letter saying You'll be pre -approved for this credit card.

[130] Yeah, I know.

[131] Which, again, leads me to another topic of this country wants me to get into debt so desperately.

[132] And I need to get into debt to build up credit, apparently, before I can, like, move on in my life.

[133] What the...

[134] I didn't know that was American.

[135] They don't have that in New Zealand?

[136] In New Zealand, we are desperately trying to avoid debt at all costs.

[137] Well, no. Here, everyone's like, my credit score is no good.

[138] So at the moment, I've got about 10 credit cards.

[139] I'm loading them all up in debt.

[140] just so I get my credit score up.

[141] Yeah, I know.

[142] That is this weird catch -22.

[143] In order to up your credit score, you have to prove that you've paid off your credit cards.

[144] And using a credit card, technically, I guess you're in debt.

[145] But don't be in debt, though.

[146] I'm so in debt.

[147] We've got 10 cards loaded up for the zoo.

[148] I don't think you understand.

[149] Every credit card app I get, I fill it in, get the new card, start spending.

[150] No. Yeah.

[151] How's you think I afford these fancy clothes I'm always in?

[152] Okay, that's the deviation about America.

[153] Okay, yeah, that's sidebar.

[154] But also, you know, they call it junk mail.

[155] It has a name.

[156] Is that what they call it?

[157] Yeah, that's junk mail.

[158] How do I stop it coming?

[159] You don't.

[160] You just throw it in the recycling bin immediately.

[161] There's so much.

[162] I know.

[163] No wonder the postal service is wrecked here.

[164] It's just delivering this rubbish all day.

[165] Whenever I open my mailbox is all this stuff in there, I'm like, who's writing to me today?

[166] I can't believe you.

[167] No one I know.

[168] I read it all, open it, thinking, will this be Molly or something?

[169] No, never.

[170] It's just the bank.

[171] Molly?

[172] Oh, don't worry about it.

[173] It's just a random name that came out.

[174] So, Waffle House.

[175] Okay.

[176] This is my journey into Waffle House.

[177] Great.

[178] And it all began with a beautiful song.

[179] You're listening to Raisins in My Toast, an official song from Waffle House, because every Waffle House has a jukebox, and those jukeboxes need something to play.

[180] And not just any old songs.

[181] Original music about Waffle House, buy Waffle House, at Waffle House.

[182] All released on the official Waffle House.

[183] House record label Waffle Records.

[184] I never encountered a diner with their own record label.

[185] It was just one of the facts that first drew me into the cults of Waffle House.

[186] A cults first launched in Georgia back in 1955.

[187] My name is Injerry Boss.

[188] I'm the vice president of public relations for Waffle House.

[189] How long have you been with Waffle House for?

[190] Six and a half years.

[191] As I made this week's little audio documentary about Waffle House, life had conspired to keep me away from a Waffle House.

[192] And while Los Angeles has many things, it does not have a waffle house.

[193] It's got in and out, it's got McDonald's, it's got a house of pies, but it does not have a waffle house.

[194] And when I found myself in Texas while I was making this episode, the nearest Waffle House was still ages away.

[195] So my conversation with their main public spokesperson began with my waffled excuses for never having tasted the waffles of Waffle House.

[196] You haven't been?

[197] No. How are you able to authentically do this interview?

[198] and you haven't been.

[199] Oh, my goodness.

[200] Okay.

[201] I would need to live vicariously through Ingeri boss.

[202] As you, podcast listener, live vicariously through me. An Inception escapade into this beloved American restaurant chain conceived by two friends, Joe Rogers Sr. and Tom Faulkner.

[203] I'm curious what your take on Waffle House was when you walked into that job.

[204] Well, it was very different, as I think it is for a lot of people who eat at a Waffle House, They have no idea what it takes to run one and all of the unique things that happen behind the scenes, even though it might be happening right in front of your very eyes.

[205] I actually had grown up with Waffle Houses.

[206] I grew up in the South, so I grew up going to them, had a lot of fun going to them as a child, remember them being a safe place to stop on the road when we're driving through the night as a family going from the South to the North to visit relatives.

[207] So I was very familiar with that aspect of it.

[208] The collegiality, the employees seem to have a lot of fun.

[209] They had fun with each other.

[210] They had fun with their customers.

[211] The customers seemed to enjoy it.

[212] So when I walked in, I really didn't know what to expect beyond that.

[213] And I tell you what, what it really is is getting a real -life MBA.

[214] You learn on the job to do the job.

[215] I've heard the saying, if you know how to run a Waffle House, you can run anything, it's very true.

[216] Part of the charm of Waffle House is its simplicity, how uniform it is.

[217] you know what you're getting.

[218] The exterior of each Waffle House, there are about 2 ,000 of them scattered around the South, and basically just a simple rectangle, this bold yellow signage wrapped around the exterior with windows all around.

[219] The big block letters of Waffle House are displayed on what reminds me of giant scrabble tiles.

[220] The typical Waffle House is what we call a shoebox design.

[221] It really is a rectangle.

[222] One of the things that governs how many people you can take care of well is how fast your grill -up team is and how quickly you can turn around orders and get that hot food out.

[223] Again, we're cooking to order.

[224] There are no heat lamps.

[225] Things aren't sitting in waiting for you to come and pick them up.

[226] We're waiting for you to order.

[227] Then we cook the food and bring it to the table.

[228] So you need to be able to do that quickly.

[229] And size does matter.

[230] We've looked at the number of steps that it takes to be able to go from the grill to the customer, from the customer to the drink machine and back.

[231] All of that has been taken into account.

[232] It's that quick service and simple design that have helped cement it in American pop culture.

[233] Pooey and the Blowfish, responsible for Only Wanna Be With You, called one of their records scattered, smothered and covered, the name of a Waffle House campaign.

[234] One of the guys who created Reddit thanks an epiphany at Waffle House for his idea to make the message board.

[235] And I'm showing my age here, but the Bloodhound gang sang about Waffle House in their big hit, The Bad Touch.

[236] Want you smothered, want you covered like my waffle house, hash browns.

[237] I remember you smothered, want you covered, like my Waffle House hash browns.

[238] Such a horny song.

[239] I remembered Monica mentioning Waffle House in that early episode after I stumbled on a Waffle House Vistas.

[240] Photographer Mika Cash has spent years traveling around the American South visiting Waffle Houses.

[241] Like me, he was fascinated by how generic they first appeared.

[242] I mean, they're just two boxes.

[243] You can build one, probably a couple weeks.

[244] Mika photographed the outside of Waffle Houses.

[245] He photographed the inside of Waffle Houses, and he photographed the vistas he'd see out the windows of Waffle Houses.

[246] And for all that genericness, he started noticing something, which is why his book starts with an essay called A Waffle House contains multitudes.

[247] I think it has more about to do with the social aspect.

[248] of it.

[249] Then it does the food.

[250] Even though it's a diner that looks exactly the same everywhere for the most part, and it's just sort of dotted the landscape, what's inside the restaurant is not homogenous.

[251] Outside of common humanity, life struggles, the stressors of life, parenting, jobs, family, tragedy, loss, love, hope, all the things we should be able to bond over but routinely find ourselves in our political environment being ripped apart with out seeing the commonalities between us.

[252] Like, they exist within those restaurants.

[253] And so that's something that surprised me. When I go, say, to Shreveport, Louisiana, the people in there are of Shreveport, and more particularly, that neighborhood of Shreveport.

[254] If I go across town, to another one in Shreveport, it's going to be different people from a different neighborhood and a different version of their reality.

[255] Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird.

[256] We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

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[308] I guess most activities you choose to do in America say a lot about you and the tribe you associate with.

[309] As in, there's a different crowd at some pretentious art gallery opening to a gun shooting range.

[310] A certain sort of person will be found at a Michelin -star restaurant over a delicious McDonald's.

[311] But Waffle House is a leveller.

[312] Mika puts it in the same camp as another much -loved chain, that place where you can catch Ben Affleck struggling with armfuls of coffees and donuts.

[313] I'll tell you one thing that is similar to Waffle House, and that's Dunkin' Donuts, but only in New England.

[314] Dunkin' Donuts is spread all over the place, but people in New England love Dunkin' Donuts.

[315] I spent two years in Connecticut at the University of Connecticut for graduate school and I would go into just a random Dunkin' Donuts in the morning and it would be packed and you would see people all walks of life sitting in a Dunkin' Donuts.

[316] I saw people closing million dollar real estate deals in three -piece suits at 9 .45 in the morning sitting next to somebody who was clearly homeless and just needing a warm place because it was winter in New England.

[317] And that is Waffle House.

[318] Waffle House and Dunkin' Donuts, places for everyone, a valuable way for Americans to gather to catch their breath.

[319] National parks do a similar thing.

[320] I know a lot of people that just see Waffle House as sort of like a rural American phenomenon, very white.

[321] Not the case at all.

[322] Most cities will have 5 to 50 of them.

[323] So there's just as many in urban environments as there are suburban and rural locations.

[324] There's just as many in residential areas as there are on the interstate where no one lives for 20 miles around.

[325] It's a perspective Waffle House agrees with and welcomes.

[326] Waffle House really is a mirror of Main Street.

[327] Anybody and everybody can come into the Waffle House.

[328] It doesn't matter how much money you have or how little you have.

[329] It doesn't matter what you look like, your color of your skin, your politics, your religion.

[330] None of that matters.

[331] Everybody who comes in wants a nice, comfortable place to sit, be able to watch their food being cooked right in front of them, cooked to order, and then be able to enjoy it quickly hot off the grill.

[332] And in the meantime, might be able to strike up a conversation with a customer who comes from a different walk of life than they do.

[333] It's anybody and everybody, and that's what makes it so unique.

[334] It sounds like some kind of utopia.

[335] The heaven you read about in the Bible, customers are quick to form friendships with the line cooks, or grill operators as they're officially called at Waffle House.

[336] We welcome you as soon as you come in the door.

[337] You should be welcomed as soon as you come in the door.

[338] If you come again to that same place, we get to know your order and shoot before you know it, when you drive into the parking lot, if we see your car, we know what you order, we'll have your coffee ready.

[339] You might even have your plate being put down at the same time that you're sitting down.

[340] So that's kind of how it is.

[341] It's a family atmosphere with fun.

[342] It all just sounds like words, pia spin.

[343] But there are a load of stories out there about this family vibe of Waffle House, how they really look up to their staff.

[344] I've heard similar tales about Costco, but Waffle House seems to take things further somehow.

[345] Timothy Harrison in Center Point, Alabama, senior didn't have a way to get to his graduation, hadn't even picked up his graduation packet.

[346] He had been excited about it, so everybody knew that his graduation was coming up, and he wasn't supposed to work, but he showed up for work that Saturday.

[347] And his manager, Cedric Hampton, just looked at him and said, wait a minute, you're not supposed to be here.

[348] And so he whipped his staff into action.

[349] Everybody wanted to help, including customers.

[350] And they got him new clothes, new shoes.

[351] They got over to the high school, got his paperwork, his cap and gown, and then drove across town to get him to the graduation.

[352] Graduation, you don't get much more All -American than that.

[353] As Ian makes its way across Florida, FEMA is standing.

[354] by to hell.

[355] Possibly the most amazing thing about Waffle House is something that wasn't invented by Waffle House, but became forever linked to it.

[356] Craig, we want to ask you about something, something you coined known as the Waffle House Index back in 2004 at the height of Hurricane Charlie.

[357] Hurricane Charlie in 2004 was devastating.

[358] And it also led to the so -called Waffle House Index.

[359] Former FEMA director Craig Fugate came up with the phrase back when he was the emergency management director in Florida.

[360] He was looking for a really easy and simple way to be able to instruct his team members how to decide what area had been the most devastated so they could get the resources to that area first.

[361] So essentially, he noticed that Waffle House, if we stayed open during the storm because we were able to do that safely or we were the first ones to reopen after a really bad storm.

[362] So he told his team members, hey, if you're driving, you see a Waffle House and it's open and they look like they're on a regular menu.

[363] that's a green, keep driving.

[364] If you get to a Waffle House and we're on a limited menu because either power is out, water is out, then yep, there's some damage there, but that's not the most critical area, keep driving.

[365] If you get to a location where the Waffle House is closed, that's red, stop your car, get out, that's where you need to be in the community first.

[366] And it stuck.

[367] This is DreamPR for any restaurant.

[368] The Waffle House Index shows the resilience of the place.

[369] It's built to keep cooking with this backup generators and, gas grills if the electricity goes out.

[370] It links Waffle House with the idea of safety and feeling safe.

[371] And if Waffle House is shut, you know shit's really bad.

[372] But Injury is very clear that this is as far from a planned PR stunt as humanly possible.

[373] You know, people always ask us about the Waffle House index, and I'm always very careful to share what doesn't belong to us.

[374] People use it.

[375] Forecasters, others use it.

[376] We're not the only business government officials look at in terms of trying to to determine the amount of devastation in a community.

[377] But we certainly have that name recognition.

[378] She also wants to clarify something else about Waffle House and disasters.

[379] They're so -called jump teams, which she says people get very confused by.

[380] They ask all the time about our jump teams.

[381] These are not folks who jump out of airplanes.

[382] We leave that to the military.

[383] But what it is is we've come up with a system where when one part of the system is hurting or needs help or assistance, we have volunteers who are ready to go in.

[384] whether they're driven in or flown in to get to that area, they volunteer their time.

[385] They get paid, of course, but they're volunteering to leave their market to go to another market that they don't normally work in to help that market get back up to speed.

[386] Because normally if we are the only place that's open after a significant threat or significant storm, then that means that they're going to be larger numbers of customers because we're absorbing customers that have come from other places and we're the only game in town.

[387] So you're going to need other people to help keep up with that customer account, make sure everybody's taking care of, give our local folks a bit of a break when they need to.

[388] Some of those volunteers are there to even help our local associates who have suffered some damage to their homes.

[389] Members of that jump team can be construction crew members because we build our own waffle houses.

[390] We have our own construction team.

[391] We're the general contractor on every one of those.

[392] So we have that expertise there as well.

[393] So there can be some minor repairs that get done.

[394] that's the level of the support that's there.

[395] This is not a situation where we're forcing anyone to work.

[396] We usually have to turn people down in terms of saying, hey, we've got enough volunteers.

[397] We still need our other markets to keep running.

[398] But it's about helping out.

[399] That's part of our culture.

[400] We call it the show up culture.

[401] We show up for one another.

[402] That's lovely.

[403] It's so nice.

[404] I googled around this and everything she said is all backed up.

[405] It just sounds like they have a really, really, really good culture there.

[406] Infrastructure, for sure.

[407] Okay, a few things.

[408] One, this is sort of in keeping with what we were just saying, but there is a warmth and a safety you feel in there, minus all the fights.

[409] Yeah.

[410] Because the people who work there, they kind of all feel like your mom.

[411] They're nice to you, but they might scold you.

[412] You know, like you might get a little slap on the wrist from them.

[413] they call you baby and stuff Yeah right And this is this sort of tie in with the southern kind of thing as well Like it's a bit more welcoming and a bit less cold Yeah I'm reminded a bit of like the culture in Philly With the woman I talked to mind in the window Where she was like she keeps people in line Yes exactly Because the fights You know they have to deal with that too Did you talk to her about fights?

[414] We briefly went into it But I almost wanted to not lean under too heavily because I almost feel like, yeah, there are fights, but obviously that happens wherever there's an all -time diner, right?

[415] It's going to get crazy.

[416] True, exactly.

[417] But you're there at 3 in the morning or something on a Friday.

[418] Things are bound to pop off.

[419] Kind of crazy.

[420] But yet, going into this, I kind of had an image of just being chaos.

[421] In New Zealand, Rilid, we had this downtown Burger King, and it was just rough.

[422] And that's kind of what I felt with this, whereas obviously it sounds like the nicest, most welcoming place you can imagine.

[423] Yeah, it is.

[424] It is.

[425] It's not like your scary Burger King.

[426] No, now I want a T -shirt from Waffle House as well.

[427] You can't get one until you go.

[428] Okay, I am going to go.

[429] This year, I'm going to get to a Waffle House.

[430] Okay.

[431] Another thing that I'm kind of, I guess, embarrassed about, if we're confessing to things we haven't done.

[432] This is the Confessions episode.

[433] I've never ordered a waffle at Waffle House.

[434] See, okay, this is interesting because a lot of people that I was spoken to colloquially are the same.

[435] Yeah.

[436] They're all about the hash browns.

[437] A hundred percent.

[438] Smothered covered.

[439] Yeah.

[440] Just like that horny song.

[441] Exactly.

[442] Exactly.

[443] I always get mine, I think, smothered and covered.

[444] There's one other.

[445] Smothered covered.

[446] There's one that's cheese.

[447] That's amazing.

[448] I always get that.

[449] Then I get onion.

[450] They're like fry up onions in there.

[451] Oh, it's so good.

[452] Sausage egg and cheese, bacon, cheese, bacon cheese.

[453] No, no. Just look at the hash brown.

[454] These are hash brown options.

[455] There's a million things that are off menu as well.

[456] So you've got the menu in front of you, but then you can pretty much get it customized.

[457] To whatever you want.

[458] Which I really love.

[459] Yeah, I normally get eggs, bacon, and hash browns.

[460] Yeah, but never the waffle.

[461] When they brought up waffles, I was like, do they sell waffles?

[462] I didn't even know.

[463] I love that about it, though.

[464] It's in the name, but it's not the most important thing there.

[465] It's the least important thing.

[466] It's scattered, smothered, and covered.

[467] Right.

[468] Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird.

[469] We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

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[514] Cooking's a step too far for me, but I'm going to continue putting the condiments on pre -made things.

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[519] What's the chain you go into?

[520] I think it's like a low -key hotel or motel in America.

[521] And whenever you go there and you have a free breakfast, it's always got the waffle maker and you can pour the mix in.

[522] Sure.

[523] I've had it a few times.

[524] They are some nasty waffles.

[525] They make you feel like you are full of lead.

[526] Okay.

[527] And you're going to sink into the pool.

[528] Yeah.

[529] I mean, I'm not going to comment.

[530] It's a lot.

[531] Because what I want to say is definitely don't do that at a free breakfast.

[532] Yeah, no, no, I think we all agreeance.

[533] I think I'd take any option, but the mix.

[534] But then we sound elite, like coastal elites.

[535] I mean, my favorite food is McDonald's cheeseburger.

[536] I am definitely not elite.

[537] Yeah, they're a bit nasty.

[538] That's a pre -COVID thing.

[539] I cannot imagine ever doing that now.

[540] I just woke up very hungry one time, and I went down, and I made myself like five of those waffles, and I covered it in sauce, and I felt so ill afterwards.

[541] Sauce meaning syrup?

[542] Is it a Hampton Inn?

[543] I think it was a holiday?

[544] It was a holiday inn.

[545] They do free breakfast.

[546] One time I had to stay on a holiday in because I went to visit my friend while they were away so I went to their house in New York and they said the keys hidden here and this is how you get in and I went to the front door and I tried the key and the key wouldn't work and I'm like on up obviously got the wrong apartment door so I go up different levels I try all the doors I'm not getting in so I was defeated I couldn't get into this apartment so I went and stayed at a holiday inn I like wheeled my suitcases through New York York, I found a holiday in.

[547] This is the Holiday Inn Express in Midtown?

[548] It would have been, I think it probably was.

[549] Talk to my friend the next day, and they had an Airbnb person in before me in their place, and they weren't happy with how jiggly the lock was.

[550] So they got a locksmith to come in and change the locks before they left and forgot to tell her.

[551] Wow.

[552] And that's why I ended up at a Holiday Inn where I had the nasty waffles.

[553] Well, I believe I have also stayed in that Holiday Inn in New York.

[554] I've stayed in at so many holiday ends because it's always there.

[555] It's like that's probably another episode.

[556] It's always there.

[557] It's always there and it's affordable and you can always get a room.

[558] Yes.

[559] My parents never did the luxury hotel.

[560] It was always a holiday inn.

[561] This is my parents too.

[562] Yeah.

[563] And not that long ago, maybe like five or six years ago, we did a group trip.

[564] Maybe it was longer than that.

[565] But to New York, I met them there.

[566] We were staying at the holiday inn.

[567] four of us in one room and my dad was snoring so loud I was up one room where we all sleeping two beds one room I love this this is so economical and practical I was so angry the whole night and such a brat and in the morning I said I'm going to stay at another hotel oh your parents must have been heartbroken their daughter wakes up and says I'm leaning They can't be heartbroken when they put you through trauma.

[568] Allow dad snore, and dads do snore loud.

[569] It was impossible.

[570] It was impossible.

[571] I was so mad at them.

[572] I was like, how are we still living like this?

[573] I really love that image.

[574] It's really good.

[575] And then waffles for breakfast.

[576] You don't offend people by the waffling.

[577] But you're saying how people live like this and stay at all the end.

[578] No, how do my parents, still, when I'm 30 or whatever, 28, have us all crammed, four adults.

[579] What was the bed situation?

[580] Were you in Neil?

[581] No, I was with my mom.

[582] And my brother and my dad shared a bed, but, like, as far away as these two chairs are.

[583] Yeah, I couldn't even.

[584] That's not against holiday ends.

[585] That's against my family for making bad decisions.

[586] Being I'm close to your family is a lot.

[587] Yeah, I wouldn't do that either.

[588] Where did your toothbrushes go?

[589] Oh, my dad did get mad because I accidentally took his toothpaste with me to the other hotel.

[590] And he did have it.

[591] He had new toothpaste.

[592] No toothpaste left.

[593] His great dental hygiene.

[594] And it's like part of his routine.

[595] And he was pissed.

[596] Yeah, I would be too.

[597] Well, he could have just used my mom's, but he likes his toothpaste, which I also like.

[598] Arm and Hammer?

[599] Yeah, it is.

[600] It is Arm and Hammer.

[601] He's the one that introduced me to.

[602] to it.

[603] Did you bring Neil with you or you let him stay?

[604] No, fuck that.

[605] Hell no. So he got his own bed then.

[606] Exactly.

[607] I did him a favor.

[608] It was for him.

[609] Anyway, Waffle House.

[610] Love it.

[611] Okay.

[612] Also, Dunkin' Donuts.

[613] When the Dunkin' Donuts opened up here in Los Angeles, it was a frenzy.

[614] People loved it.

[615] It was maybe eight or ten years ago.

[616] Do you remember this?

[617] It opened in like Santa Monica.

[618] And it was a huge deal.

[619] Huge lines.

[620] Everyone was freaking out.

[621] I also do love Dunkin' Donuts.

[622] We had that with Sonic in Illinois.

[623] Oh.

[624] Because we would get the commercials because there was a ton of them in all the neighboring states.

[625] But there were no Sonics for hours.

[626] I didn't know this happened in America in different states because in New Zealand we got an In -N -Out burger for like two days.

[627] It was a pop -up.

[628] No way.

[629] And we went crazy.

[630] Of course.

[631] People went nuts.

[632] Of course.

[633] It was some burger joint.

[634] I'm worried now it wasn't In -N -Out because it almost seems too cool.

[635] It was a really popular.

[636] American burger joint that opened for two days and we went crazy.

[637] But the idea that you also have this between states and you get excited about different states, a place is really lovely.

[638] If in and out opened in the south or east coast, it would be a freak out.

[639] Dunking donuts, am I also correct in thinking the coffee there is meant to be quite good?

[640] Yeah, everyone loves the coffee.

[641] It's solid coffee.

[642] Yeah.

[643] Everyone loves a coffee.

[644] I like the chocolate cake donut.

[645] I mean, this old man, we always walk up the same walk up, Griffith Park.

[646] He had his 90th birthday, and all the walkers, we all gathered to celebrate.

[647] And there were these big tables, and Pete was there telling his stories.

[648] I love Pete.

[649] He's so nice.

[650] He's a stranger you met on a walk?

[651] Yeah, I'm meeting all sorts of people up and down there.

[652] Wait, David.

[653] When I'm not listening to my middle music, powering along.

[654] You're not even noticing me and you're meeting strangers.

[655] You meet Pete at the top.

[656] He's this beautiful old man, and he had his birthday party.

[657] So we invited us all to his birthday, all the walkers, and we all went to his birthday party.

[658] But they had Duncan Donuts, coffee, and big casting.

[659] Yes, they do that.

[660] And I couldn't figure out how to pour it.

[661] It was so complicated, and it took me so long.

[662] But then Pete came along and was like, this is how you bar, it's sunny.

[663] And it was really kind.

[664] Then I had my first Dunkin' Donuts coffee on top of this hill with this old man. Did you like it?

[665] I loved it.

[666] It was so good.

[667] That's really sweet.

[668] One other rumor I heard about Waffle House.

[669] So I don't know if it's true.

[670] And I don't know if she said it and I just missed it.

[671] This is how rumors start, by the way.

[672] It's when a podcast goes, I heard.

[673] something.

[674] I did.

[675] This is a positive rumor, is that everyone who works at Waffle House, even if you're an upper management, you spend some time on the floor of a Waffle House.

[676] I've heard that too.

[677] Can't confirm it, but I have heard that same thing.

[678] And after talking to her, it sounds lovely.

[679] I love that.

[680] I love any business that does that that makes the corporate guy go do stuff.

[681] Yeah, stuff that actually matters.

[682] Like you're a restaurant selling food.

[683] You might as well be on the floor doing that so you can see what it's about.

[684] Yeah, I know what it's like when there's like an angry drunk customer screaming at you at 3 in the morning.

[685] And high schoolers fighting outside in the parking lot, threatening to stab each other.

[686] That's scary.

[687] So scary.

[688] I'd hate being stabbed.

[689] There's a little bit more to learn.

[690] Are you ready for a little bit more learning?

[691] Yes.

[692] I'm watching a clip on YouTube of a waffle eating competition held outside a waffle house back in 2006.

[693] The caption's quite long and reads, Joey Chestnut sets the world record while eaters Sonia Thomas, Chip Simpson, Hall Hunt, Larry McNeil, Crazy Legs, Super Paul, Bonebreaker Barlow, Baba Yalbro, Eric Bro, and The Hangman all fight for leftover dough.

[694] How American is that?

[695] Anyway, as I'm watching, I remember that I haven't really investigated the food at Waffle House yet, and Ingeri tells me that it's all about efficiency, including the shorthand they use to communicate in the kitchen.

[696] So, for example, it'll be mark, order, scramble, plate, scattered, covered.

[697] So that's an order of scrambled eggs, two eggs.

[698] Plate, so that means it's going to be hash browns, not grits.

[699] Scattered, that means that the hash browns are cooked loosely on the grill as opposed to contained in a ring.

[700] And cover means a slice of American cheese.

[701] And so they'll mark the plate with condiments and that kind of thing so they can remember.

[702] It used to be that they were memory cooks.

[703] Back in the day, they did it all by.

[704] memory.

[705] We still have several memory cooks who they shy away from the marking.

[706] They really don't like the marking.

[707] Waffle House also does something else unique.

[708] They take the food orders before the drinks.

[709] The food is on the grill before the drink orders taken, so that they basically all arrived at the same time.

[710] You're not left their guzzling leaders of Coke filling yourself up before the food arrives.

[711] For me, this is a godsend because it's exactly what I do.

[712] I guzzle the drink and then I can't fit any food in.

[713] I have suffered from that a lot.

[714] Yes, and then you can't eat your food because you sat and drank all of that soda or whatever it is you're drinking.

[715] So it's an opportunity for people to be able to enjoy the meal that they've ordered when it is hot and fresh off the grill.

[716] That's the best way to have it.

[717] And you're eating in our kitchen.

[718] The kitchen is not in the back.

[719] You don't have to guess what the chef or the sous chef is doing.

[720] You can see it.

[721] And I mean, some of our customers who are regulars, there's so much, so are regulars that they try to call their orders from their seats.

[722] just like our service, because they know how to call them.

[723] She calls it the waffle language.

[724] I wonder if one day, if I stay in America long enough, I'll learn the waffle language.

[725] Like there's kids that learn Klingon from Star Trek or Alvish from Lord of the Rings.

[726] Probably the most famous elvish word is Melon, which means friend, which Gandalf says when he wants to get to the minds of Moria.

[727] Anyway, back to Waffle House.

[728] The number one order I would probably say would be the All -Star, which is two eggs cooked anyway with your choice of toast, and we have several options there, and you can get it with grits or with hash browns, your choice of meat, and of course your choice of waffle, which could be our sweet cream waffle, or our chocolate waffle, or blueberry waffle, or pecan waffle, or a mix of all of those.

[729] I felt saliva pulling in my mouth as I listen, frustrated that I'm stuck here in L .A., some robbery leftover pizza waiting for me in the fridge.

[730] But to bring some reality back to the situation.

[731] Mika, who's pretty much lived in Waffle Houses over the last three years, had some important points to make.

[732] One, it's not actually that cheap.

[733] You would probably spend less money at a McDonald's, the Nettle Waffle House, because you also have to include the gratuity.

[734] My standard two -egg breakfast with bacon, hash browns, and coffee with gratuity, it'll run me anywhere from $10 to $14.

[735] And I usually will tip like five bucks, you know, on a simple breakfast.

[736] The other thing too is, yes, the waffle is in their name.

[737] The waffles are good.

[738] The pecan waffle is especially good.

[739] And if you want a little bit of southern in your waffle, put some pecans in it.

[740] But you got to have the hash browns.

[741] That's really what everybody goes to Waffle House for.

[742] So don't leave without having hash browns.

[743] This is sort of mind -blowing.

[744] I mean, Waffle is in the name.

[745] Maybe Waffle House should be renamed Hash House.

[746] You could do it at home, but it won't taste as good as a Waffle House.

[747] The level of butter, I think the crispiness of the hash browns.

[748] If you get them nice and scattered on the grill, actually taste really great.

[749] Before I ended my foray into the food and culture of Waffle House, I wanted to address that point Monica raised about kerfuffles and Waffle House.

[750] As I said earlier, I know that stories of craziness at Waffle House have little to do with the place and more the fact it's open literally all the time.

[751] If you're working with a time period that you can describe as all the time, then of course, anything and everything will eventually happen.

[752] So I phrased my question politely.

[753] Are there any challenges of running a sort of 24 -hour style diner?

[754] Well, if it were easy, everybody would do it.

[755] We started back in 1955 when, of course, the nighttime culture was a lot different than it is today.

[756] It really wasn't about bar and entertainment culture.

[757] It was about shift work.

[758] We still have a fair amount of folks who work during that time and need to be able to have a place to eat.

[759] There still are a lot of folks traveling at night because the roads have fewer cars.

[760] But for the majority of it, it really is that nighttime entertainment crowd that you may get.

[761] Once the bars close, they're looking for a place to eat.

[762] They know that Waffle House will be open, and so we are there.

[763] And we keep our menu fairly simple.

[764] We don't change it very often.

[765] And so folks shouldn't have a difficulty ordering what they want to order.

[766] There's no accounting for how people are going to have to behave, and those situations create some difficulty for our staff, they've been trained on how to handle it.

[767] Waffle House is found in 25 of the 50 states, mainly in the south.

[768] And maybe that's why Waffle House is so hospitable.

[769] I went to school in the Midwest.

[770] I have traveled in the north.

[771] I've lived out on the West Coast in California.

[772] So it is very different.

[773] There's just a more of an openness, of frankness, nothing to hide.

[774] We welcome you kind of atmosphere.

[775] Come on in.

[776] We accept you as you are.

[777] Type of hospitality.

[778] And that's really what the Southern hospitality has always been, maybe not always executed as well as it should be everywhere.

[779] But that's pretty much what it is.

[780] It's just this place that has entry points from every possible walk of life.

[781] And you just have to make the commitment to walk in.

[782] I love Waffle House, the invention of Joe Rogers Sr. and Tom Faulkner, who both actually died within three months of each other back in 2017.

[783] As I log off from my Zoom interviews with Mika and Ingeri, I stopped my main microphone rolling and just had my terrible computer audio running.

[784] I've told Ingeri I've stopped the interview.

[785] And that's when the southern hospitality kicks in.

[786] If you really want to come where it started, come to Georgia, let me know you're in town, and I'll take you.

[787] And Mika's final words are so beautiful too, I think.

[788] But we're also grizzled and cynical.

[789] I worry they're going to come across as way too earnest.

[790] So to counter that, Flightless Bird's editor, Billy, is going to play raisin toast under it, just so you can stomach the very earnest words.

[791] I think there's a lot to be learned when people realize that we have way more in common than we do in terms of differences.

[792] And that if we could just talk about that and talk about everyone's honest hopes and dreams and then figure out a way to achieve them, rather than thinking that one person's hopes or dreams is more important than somebody else's, It seems so simple.

[793] I walked into the waffle house and sat down at my seat.

[794] Looked the menu over well, decided what to eat.

[795] Out came from little guys who wind at me and said, be sure to choose the raisin toast and popped into the bread.

[796] Please hang on.

[797] I'm so disappointed in you.

[798] And what?

[799] So you just can't have a real moment.

[800] No, I can't.

[801] I listened to Mika's final kind of words, and I was like, it's too earnest.

[802] We need to counter this with some comedy.

[803] And I think it was beautiful.

[804] I think raisin toast combined with how Waffle House can potentially solve all of America's problems as a beautiful combination.

[805] I did have this moment last time I was there where I went to the Waffle House.

[806] I sat at the counter, and there was an older white woman working, as I said, a very mom.

[807] energy.

[808] And also there was a woman also working wearing a hijab.

[809] And I loved it.

[810] I was like, this is beautiful.

[811] These two people from very different backgrounds working together at a Waffle House.

[812] Yeah, it's really good.

[813] I think we can all take a lesson from Waffle House.

[814] Everyone's in there and we're having a nice time.

[815] If somehow we could expand the culture of a Waffle house, minus the 3 a .m. fights out into the entirety of the planet, maybe the world would be a better place.

[816] I also think when you go in there, doesn't matter how coastal elite you are or how hoity -to -do you are.

[817] You're like okay with a teeny tiny bit of grime.

[818] Yeah.

[819] Yeah, it becomes okay.

[820] Yeah, a little bit of not sparkliness.

[821] Exactly.

[822] It becomes all good.

[823] It's not pristine and that's great.

[824] It's hard to tell you the emotion I get when I slide into a booth.

[825] We don't have booths in New Zealand.

[826] And just there's something about sliding in there It's just the best thing in the world It's so great.

[827] It's so comfy.

[828] I can't believe you don't have boots.

[829] Yeah, it's bonkers.

[830] That's so strange.

[831] We have Denny's and there's a bit of booth action there.

[832] Okay.

[833] But not the number of booths you get here in America.

[834] There's something about being cozy.

[835] You can lean on the table as well.

[836] I love it.

[837] You feel protected and open.

[838] I'd love a psychologist to explain the culture of what it's like when everyone's boothed up.

[839] It's like this great leveler.

[840] It is.

[841] That's really true.

[842] I love that.

[843] And I'm going to take her up on her offer to go to Waffle House in Georgia.

[844] I'm going to see you at the Waffle House.

[845] You're going to not notice me. Yeah, he won't know it's you.

[846] Yeah.

[847] Oh, my God.

[848] We'll both be eating there in separate foods.

[849] Monaco'll know, but David will.

[850] Exactly.

[851] My whole life is other people.

[852] He'll know he's just avoiding and acting like he doesn't.

[853] That Waffle House Vista's book, I don't know if there's any copies left.

[854] I got it from this weird little bookstore, but I googled it.

[855] And if you go to Bittersoutherner .com, apparently it has that book in it.

[856] It's just really beautiful photos that he's taken from Waffle House.

[857] Like out the window, different vistas inside.

[858] It's really beautiful.

[859] Does he sell the photography?

[860] No, it's just in the book, I think.

[861] Well, can we reach out to him?

[862] Because I would like a framed photo.

[863] Okay.

[864] I will reach out to Beka and I will see what he can come up with.

[865] All right.

[866] Well, I'm sad you didn't go, but I'm excited for you that you will go.

[867] I'm excited too I came into this episode not having strong opinions on Waffle House besides that book Now I can't wait to eat Mainly the hash browns They're so good That is one of my Deathbed meals Really?

[868] Or death row meals Whatever you're calling it Last meal The thing is you can only have one No you can have one meal But compiled of lots of different things I didn't know that Well I think I think you're right That's another flight this bird that'll be a good episode the death penalty episode that won't be divisive food very specifically about the food that'll be a pivot a pivot away from controversy the final meal you'll like to find some correctional officers and see the the rules of last meal oh my no I would be curious to know because I think you're probably right you can probably formulate your own meal full of different things I've always just expected the one McDonald's cheeseburger to be laid down because that's my favorite food of all time That's kind of poetic to just have the one.

[869] Just the one.

[870] Am I more American or less?

[871] Less, because I haven't been.

[872] You haven't been, and you couldn't let that beautiful piece of earnest communication just be.

[873] You had to make it so New Zealand and put a little ditty under it.

[874] Your face is that tune played on and on was really worth it all.

[875] It reminded me of when Dax looks at me and sings.

[876] Or does accent.

[877] raisins in my toast Bye Monica Bye