Drew Barrymore

[0] Welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dax Rathers, and I'm joined by Minister Mouse.

[2] Hi there.

[3] Oh, my blue minister.

[4] That's okay.

[5] Right.

[6] Can't get it right every time.

[7] This is a show about the messiness of being human.

[8] Oh, my God, stop saying that.

[9] We were watching before we get into who our guest is, Only Murder's in the Building, great show on Hulu, recommend it.

[10] Very.

[11] We love it.

[12] The woman on the show, Tina Faye, she has a very popular serial type podcast.

[13] Yeah.

[14] And she says that the good stuff's in the men.

[15] mess like run towards the mess she kept talking about messy and they kept saying it and saying it was like oh my god they're going to burn us they're going to say messiness of being human this is really come to bite us in the ass like soon as i realized it was getting a little played out you are already ahead of it oh yeah now we're seeing it made fun of on tv well that's a little bit arrogant of us to assume that it has nothing to do with us but it triggered something we were just waiting to get burned it felt like it was on the horizon well i mean look i don't think it's overly egocentric to think a show that's about podcasts might involve that's not crazy i don't think so but i think i mean it's not about our kind of podcast it's about murder podcasts but you know i don't know it's a great show it's a great show now none of those people have to come on to promote it because we just promoted it for them and they're all really good people martin short steve martin steve martin short and um selina gomez selina gomez and tina fay oh my god what a barnman And Sting.

[16] Oh, don't ruin it.

[17] Sorry.

[18] Spoiler alert.

[19] Listen, this is a real privilege for us on this show because we get to introduce America to a brand new actress.

[20] It's just on the scene.

[21] Yeah, she's just now on the scene.

[22] This up -and -comer's name is Drew Barrymore.

[23] And she got her start just two seconds ago in E .T. I think she's going to be a big deal.

[24] You think so?

[25] Yeah.

[26] Okay, of course I'm joking because Drew Barrymore has been acting since she's a little baby.

[27] But the best baby performances I've ever seen in my life is E .T. My gosh.

[28] Anyways, Drew Barrymore, I don't need to read you any of her credits.

[29] We all know Drew Barrymore.

[30] We've loved her for decades.

[31] As you'll find out, I fell in love with her in junior high school when I found out she was in treatment.

[32] She has her own show called The Drew Barrymore Show, and season two is out now.

[33] The Drew Barrymore show is entering its second season as daytime's brightest destination for intelligent optimism and maximum fun.

[34] Please enjoy Drew Barrymore.

[35] subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[36] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[37] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[38] This is not a trap, but do you want whiskey?

[39] Because we have really nice whiskey here that Leon Bridges drank.

[40] Oh, never mind.

[41] The whole offer is now off.

[42] I'm sure we could get you some if you wanted some.

[43] Thank you.

[44] Can I ask one question right away?

[45] Are we on?

[46] We're always on.

[47] Great, good.

[48] I love that.

[49] I hate that, like, even as a director, and I learned this from Ken Quapas, funny enough, because he gave me, like, the license to do this, and I always wanted someone to kind of teach me how to get out of it.

[50] I fucking hate the word action.

[51] Yes.

[52] It's like, ready to be fake.

[53] Exactly.

[54] Let's pretend.

[55] And I'm so not a good fake.

[56] And I can't lie for shit.

[57] So he would always just say, go ahead.

[58] And it was very casual.

[59] Like he almost sometimes would just wave his hand.

[60] And it was so much smoother than this herky, jerky, weird feeling.

[61] And so good.

[62] I'm glad you're always on.

[63] Well, that makes me think immediately of I was directing a movie.

[64] And to the actors, it was their first thing.

[65] And I loved both of them very dearly.

[66] And I wanted to help them as much as possible.

[67] And so I always, I would just film our rehearsal.

[68] I'd be staying right there.

[69] They did not think we were working.

[70] I love it.

[71] And it was fucking awesome.

[72] But you're right.

[73] The stakes of action are just, they're unnerving.

[74] I mean, people don't, like, fornicate that way.

[75] Well.

[76] When you broker it through Bumble, I think maybe it can work that way.

[77] But it's so true.

[78] There's so many, like, things in life where you don't go, like, ready set unless you're racing a car.

[79] And even then, you tense up.

[80] It's scary.

[81] Oh, my gosh.

[82] We interviewed a Daniel Ricardo, Formula One driver, and he and I were bonding over the fact that the worst moment ever is sitting on that grid waiting for it to start.

[83] There's so much fear and anxiety.

[84] But then the second you start driving, you're doing the thing you do and you don't ever think about it again.

[85] But that lead up to it is, even for him, is insufferable.

[86] I just want to be as lost in it as possible.

[87] so if anybody draws attention to things, it throws me off.

[88] Sure.

[89] And it's bizarre and probably sounds really sick and dysfunctional that a camera is an almost an invisible thing to me. Yay!

[90] Oh, well, hold on.

[91] Listener, she just threw a really good glare right down Wobby Wob's camera barrel.

[92] Right down the barrel.

[93] Yeah.

[94] She said it's invisible to me and then she connected with it.

[95] Yeah.

[96] Here's what I was going to ask if you were pissed about.

[97] If I were you, this would be my thought right now.

[98] God, I can't wait to hear it.

[99] I would have sat down on this couch and been like, are you fucking kidding me?

[100] He has a talk show and this is how it works.

[101] Like, he's at home and people come there and he doesn't have to fucking make up and shit.

[102] I think I'd be resentful.

[103] That's why I came from the airport because I know what I'm walking into.

[104] I've seen the set.

[105] And I listened to the first podcast where Kristen's telling you about the toilet.

[106] And I know your whole CV and background and your relationship.

[107] And I know exactly what I'm walking into, which is why when they were like, if you want to run from the airport and do hair and makeup and go over, I was like, fuck that.

[108] I can go right straight from the plane, stop at three drive -thrues on my way because I had the time.

[109] And disarming is one of the best things we can do.

[110] And I really commend you for two things.

[111] You are very early to bat and ahead of your time with podcasts.

[112] You set a standard for a forum that is now just incredibly prolifically trafficked and emulated and out there.

[113] But you were very early and you were a real pioneer of this format.

[114] And I always respect people who are there early.

[115] It's always just so cool to me that you would have the wherewithal and the gut instinct to create things because it's easy to see.

[116] see a model and do that.

[117] It's hard to create the model.

[118] And then also, when I listen to these conversations, it's the closest thing I think to Howard Stern that there is.

[119] And I never knew that that smut -mouth shock jock would become my journalistic idol because he used to fuck with me publicly and he knows how I feel about it.

[120] And I've done his show multiple times now.

[121] One of the things I was going to say to you is how much I love when you're on Stern.

[122] Thank you.

[123] Well, these conversations.

[124] are only had if you create the room for it.

[125] So thank you for creating the room for it.

[126] And I'm honored to be here.

[127] I was so psyched.

[128] I think I asked you guys if I could come on.

[129] And when I heard the answer was yes, I was so thrilled.

[130] That makes us so happy.

[131] So flattered.

[132] I want to first say that I just want to give Monica due respect and ownership.

[133] It was her idea as well.

[134] Secondly, if you're listening, I thought I was way late.

[135] I thought I was a poser.

[136] I'm like, well, Marin's already doing this perfectly.

[137] Maron's going to think I'm copying him.

[138] Chris Hardwick's going to think I'm copying it.

[139] You know, I still had the doubt in my head of like, my idea for the first title of the podcast was the millionth podcast, which now wouldn't even be a funny joke because there's 2 .2 million podcasts.

[140] And at the time, there really wasn't that many podcasts.

[141] It was a new frontier.

[142] And I heard that you kind of noticed on the back porch and like through conversations was like, hey, there's something here.

[143] And I don't think you do anything alone.

[144] I think it does take objectivity and persistence of others around you.

[145] And that's where the dream start to flicker and like the fire starts to build.

[146] I think of you as one of the first.

[147] I love you.

[148] Thank you.

[149] That's a very nice compliment.

[150] I appreciate it.

[151] And you were with an elite group of like smart people.

[152] I happen to be hanging with Michael Jordan of this space and then just needed to put a jersey on her.

[153] And then now we're here.

[154] Well, I couldn't realize my dreams without my Nancy Giovon and who's known Nancy Fallon.

[155] I was 19 and wanted to start something, too.

[156] I know this from Stern, right?

[157] You guys were both on some movie.

[158] I was on a movie that was just really dysfunctional.

[159] Were you in Australia or something?

[160] No, where were you?

[161] No, I was in Texas.

[162] In Del Rio, I was a movie called Bad Girls.

[163] And the production just kept kind of getting sidetracked.

[164] Okay, sure.

[165] What was supposed to be like a two -month movie, and Sonora turned into this six -month kind of fiasco in the middle of...

[166] Glory Road.

[167] Nowhere, Del Rio, Texas, which I loved.

[168] I loved, again, being stationed in a town with one diner, and by diner, it was like a fast food joint, and you experienced butterfly migrations, and they would cover your windshield.

[169] You couldn't drive.

[170] You'd put your arms out, because it was so in nature, you'd come home with ticks in your body from the Del Rio.

[171] River, you would walk in and see the largest tarantula you've ever seen on your floor and then I'd have to go screaming and crying, begging for help because tarantulas are my worst nightmare.

[172] Sure.

[173] But these are the adventures that I was lucky enough to have, but there was something that happened to me on that movie that I wanted to see women do more action, and I wanted to see it a certain way that I saw it in my head.

[174] And with no disrespect to the movie, women in a Western was super awesome.

[175] I was thrilled to be there.

[176] And I have no negative feelings towards it.

[177] I was just like, God, I wonder if I could do a woman's action movie.

[178] What would I do?

[179] But then also, there was this one woman.

[180] Her name is Lynn.

[181] She's still alive.

[182] She's amazing.

[183] A lovely person.

[184] Linda Opsed.

[185] And she kept running around.

[186] Producer, right?

[187] Famous producer, yeah.

[188] And she kept running around.

[189] And she was a problem solver.

[190] And where a lot of people were like, we're just kind of be here.

[191] her for months on end and nobody kind of knows what's happening one day from the next.

[192] This one tiny, frail, short little woman was like lightning and a firecracker and fierce and just getting shit done.

[193] And I was like, her, if I'm going to be in situations in life, I don't care if it's a movie set or a classroom or I didn't go to school.

[194] But any situation in life, an office, I don't care what pool of people I'm in.

[195] I'm going to be that woman.

[196] Uh -huh.

[197] And I'm not going to sit here.

[198] I'm going to be her who's just solving problems, putting out fires and getting shit done.

[199] Can I add to it?

[200] Because I've never met her, but I know of her.

[201] I have a lot of female friends in this business.

[202] She has reached out to and included in the ride.

[203] I understand she also is a great giver back to other females.

[204] I think she was ahead of her time.

[205] This was, oh, my God.

[206] Let's see.

[207] I was 16 or 16.

[208] If you were 19, it was 94.

[209] And it was earlier than that because I met Nan when I was 19.

[210] So it was a year or two before then.

[211] Okay, 93.

[212] When you would have graduated, when I graduated.

[213] Yeah, I was like 16, 17, 18, somewhere in there, my Pisces, terrible with timelines.

[214] Somewhere in that time, are you Pisces?

[215] We just did a little thing on astrology.

[216] And we both don't believe in it, but she found an Instagram account where every time they release them, we're like, oh, my God, that's so spot on.

[217] Every time.

[218] There's something poetic to it.

[219] There is.

[220] Financial decisions based on.

[221] Yeah, yeah.

[222] End of life plans based.

[223] Well, you know, at that point, you got nothing to lose.

[224] I'd say how with it.

[225] But so she was very kind to me, and I kind of really sidled up to her, and I learned a lot from her.

[226] And she would say, PC man, permanent crew, you find your tribe, and you stick with them.

[227] And you stick with them for every project, and you have a shorthand.

[228] And she just taught me all these great wisdoms.

[229] And then we sort of lost touch over the years.

[230] We tried to stay friends.

[231] life diverted our pads a little bit and I met Nan and I was working in Seattle and I met her and I just got this weird whim and I was like let's start a company I want to produce movies and so much of who I am is because of her it's like my sayings my philosophies my isms but then ironically I've been a really big fuck up throughout my life and she was like never a fuck up.

[232] And that's why I love her because I follow great people.

[233] So Monica, too, she's never been an addict.

[234] She doesn't fuck everyone.

[235] She hasn't shown her boobs to everyone.

[236] I mean, I don't understand her at all.

[237] The worst thing you can do if you've lived a life of scars and many colors is to end up with someone who fucking hates you for it.

[238] Oh, yes.

[239] I couldn't do that.

[240] Literally, but I can't tell you how many times that happens.

[241] I would imagine with you, here's my guess of the patterns of relationships that would have likely happened with you, which is men would have been attracted to this free spiritness.

[242] And then they would have ultimately found it very threatening and very unsafe and would have started trying to make you not the thing they were attracted to.

[243] Ding, ding, ding.

[244] Not every time.

[245] Not all men, but that was an unfortunate reoccurring theme for me. And I would imagine compounded by and coupled with, have you watched the Paris Hilton documentary?

[246] I have, and she came on the show, and I knew Paris when I was a kid.

[247] My mom used to drop me off at Kathy's house, and I would spend the whole weekend because my mom was that kind of person like, it's Friday.

[248] I'll see you Sunday, maybe, maybe, yeah, exactly, which she did me such a favor because I was so adaptable and was in all these different homes and saw all these different ways to live.

[249] and I'm the least judgmental person because of it.

[250] So she totally did me the biggest solid.

[251] But I knew Paris when she was a kid.

[252] We knew each other as party girls.

[253] Yeah.

[254] I partied with her.

[255] Me too.

[256] I'm glad to say.

[257] Me too.

[258] I was a kid with her.

[259] I partied with her in the 90s.

[260] And then here we are sitting as, I guess, women.

[261] And I'm going, I did not know that you were locked up in an institution.

[262] I was too.

[263] Yes.

[264] And I live my life.

[265] sometimes thinking they're fucking coming in to get me. And I just did not know I shared that with her.

[266] That documentary made me like her so much.

[267] I'm watching this thing and I'm thinking, well, first of all, I didn't know she was like a tomboy.

[268] I know that's a word we should use.

[269] But whatever, she described herself as a tomboy as a kid.

[270] And you're seeing this video of her, and she was very much like a little dude.

[271] So I only point that out, it's because it's in direct opposition to like a starlit or whatever she was publicly, right?

[272] Like a queen.

[273] Socialite.

[274] Socialite, thank you.

[275] A debutante?

[276] Well, we use, we won't go that far.

[277] That's a different thing.

[278] Okay.

[279] And she kept talking about trauma and I got to be honest, I was a little bit like, what's this trauma going to be?

[280] What's this trauma going to be?

[281] And then when I heard it, I was like, that is fucking insane.

[282] The notion for people don't know, she's just in her bed, in her house and she's kidnapped.

[283] Middle of the night, her parents have hired this company up in Utah.

[284] They come, they literally kidnap her.

[285] They put her in a van.

[286] I know all about it.

[287] You do?

[288] So this happened to you too.

[289] Yeah, absolutely.

[290] You were in one for 18 months?

[291] Yep.

[292] 18 months, Monica.

[293] In her childhood, that ends up being like a tens of.

[294] of your childhood.

[295] 13 to 14, and then when I was 14, I got emancipated by the courts and became a legal adult.

[296] She lived on her own at 15.

[297] You had your own spot, right?

[298] Yeah, I had my first apartment.

[299] I was 14.

[300] And actually, I just did this tour.

[301] Because you're doing Hollywood Week on your show, right?

[302] I am.

[303] It was very intimidating to launch a show in a pandemic.

[304] I sort of went really hard on the comedy.

[305] I was by myself in a room.

[306] With no audience to gauge anything.

[307] Yep.

[308] Crickets on television.

[309] humble weeds like farting and feeling really raw and vulnerable.

[310] And it was 2020.

[311] It was the fourth quarter of the game of our life.

[312] There was nothing not at stake.

[313] The world was asking us every question imaginable.

[314] And it was the most humbling high stakes time.

[315] And I really wanted to do a lot of comedy.

[316] And I kind of leaned in on that.

[317] But I just didn't know if we were going to be able to stay on the air.

[318] And it was such a crazy time.

[319] I felt crazy.

[320] And I think that manicness like came through, but I really wanted to be a bright spot, not a blind spot.

[321] And I sort of leaned in on the comedy.

[322] And then I just was like, well, really this is about optimism, but it's not blind optimism.

[323] It's like the optimism is addressing everything that's happening, but finding that will, that good stuff that's out there.

[324] Yeah.

[325] And that's what I'm going to go for.

[326] But the more that we went along, the more I was able to settle in and start getting into bigger and better conversations.

[327] Yeah.

[328] And we never knew if we were going to get to season two.

[329] We didn't find out until the very end of season one.

[330] And then when I found out, I said, okay, then this is our chance to go deeper.

[331] And can I just add really quick?

[332] This is a luxury not afforded to you on time.

[333] television generally, which is it took us, I don't know when this show became what it was, but it was probably like 30 episodes in or something.

[334] Like you set out with an intention and then you realize, oh, naturally I gravitate towards this and maybe that's off topic of the intention, but whatever, on a TV show, you really don't generally get the opportunity to find your show.

[335] Yes, and we did.

[336] Yeah.

[337] And I'm so relieved we got a season two because we had a wonderful year of learning curves.

[338] and confidence building taking a lot of humble pie like the focus groups would come in and they were not pretty and I was like this is so ripe for an identity crisis and I was like you know what fuck that I can't do that that's so weak and it's such a pussy move for me to take that personally there are people objectively giving me some feelings and that's why I loved being a producer I didn't like being an actor who was just sitting on the same sidelines not knowing I wanted to be in the action I wanted to hear the tough shit I've lied down during focus groups and test screenings of all the films that I produced the audience does not know I'm there I got to hear all the shit and I love it can I launch into another theory please okay I just got enough data to to launch into this theory so first was the boyfriends so I'm reading about your history now full disclosure I'm in seventh grade we're the exact same age I don't know if you know this i'm 46 yeah i'm 46 we're a month apart i was born in january 75 you're born in february yes yes so i'm in seventh or eighth grade i don't know where i got this because we didn't get this magazine we didn't have magazines but maybe it was at school i found a people magazine and it was a story about you and you were in treatment yeah and i as a punk rock skateboarder i was like this bitch is my girl literally I was like this is my girl she's already in fucking treatment like it's such a bizarre way to have been like in love with you but I was I was like well first of all you were so darn cute and you were like even in your treatment center it was like it looked like a girl's bedroom there was something about it that I was like oh look this girl I was captivated by this notion that there was a 13 year old in treatment but beyond that I didn't know until even today like the historic history of your life, the being fifth generation actor, all this stuff.

[339] I knew you had a famous dad or grandfather, whatever.

[340] The point is, I'm reading the description of your father.

[341] Now, mind you, mine was not as bad.

[342] I'm not in any way.

[343] I've heard about your dad.

[344] He was a party animal.

[345] He was single.

[346] He drove a corvette, and he was a addict.

[347] And I adore him.

[348] Whatever.

[349] He's dead as well.

[350] But I was reading your thing and I was like, oh, this is a lot of similar shit here.

[351] And then blah, blah, blah.

[352] The point I was about to make was, I have to imagine growing up in the way that you did with a good deal of deception around you and adults with ulterior motives and people servicing themselves and acting kind and acting all these ways.

[353] I bet you're someone that just fucking covets the truth as I do.

[354] Like, I don't give a shit.

[355] Tell me you think I'm a fucking arrogant asshole.

[356] Whatever.

[357] We'll get past that.

[358] But I can't do the smiles of my face and there's something else going on.

[359] That's why I love Nan is I've never had anybody be harder on me in my life.

[360] She is the most brutal.

[361] Tough love has got nothing on the severity of her disapproval and honesty.

[362] And growing up in Hollywood, there were a list of 10 things that I just said, this is so fucking toxic.

[363] And I will not subscribe to any of it.

[364] Now, I had a separate journey to go learn what was toxic from me or not.

[365] not as just a person that had nothing to do with the job or the surroundings or anybody else's journey.

[366] I could separate the two.

[367] And sure, it gave me too much access and excess and probably amplified the problem.

[368] But I come from a long line of addicts and alcoholics.

[369] And I want to be like the breaker of that chain in my family.

[370] And I just did not have that ability until I was, I mean, honestly, I'm still trying to master.

[371] Well, listen to me. They say most addicts are the result of genetics, which clearly you have, and then trauma, which, of course you had.

[372] Absolutely.

[373] And I'm glad to see that society, especially athletes coming out, because I think they're some of the best ambassadors because they're not actors or artists.

[374] They're not, quote, weak.

[375] They're not people you think of trying to get compassion.

[376] They're like brave, strong, invincible.

[377] To hear some own.

[378] Biles is struggling to that degree is so comforting, I think, to people.

[379] I wrote something about her that she will be my face when I don't know how to stop running because I've been running since I was 11 months old in diapers acting and working and paying the rent for me and my mom.

[380] And that parent -child dynamic was never there.

[381] I was the adult.

[382] And so I appreciate Michael Phelps and Naomi Osaka and Simone Biles.

[383] And these people coming to the forefront saying mental health is a subject that deserves to be at the forefront.

[384] And it is not synonymous with weakness.

[385] Right.

[386] And it's exactly the same as a pulled hamstring.

[387] Yeah.

[388] Like there's no shame in a pulled hamstring.

[389] There's no shame in a blown quad.

[390] There's no shame in any of this either.

[391] No. I listened to the Prince Harry and he said the worst things get out there, the more hopefully people can come together.

[392] And that's why I love these conversations.

[393] and to take off the armor and be raw and vulnerable, I was so, this is going to sound so, again, sick and weird, but I don't care because it's my truth.

[394] I was so liberated when my mom threw me in that institution and it just got out all over the press.

[395] And there I was, and I was blacklisted from work.

[396] People thought I was a fuck up at work.

[397] I never once fucked up at work.

[398] I just fucked up in my own life.

[399] Sure, sure.

[400] Aside from work.

[401] Your real job.

[402] At work, I was amazing.

[403] I was infallible.

[404] On time, knew my lines, a real workhorse, you know?

[405] Just a reliable steed, you know?

[406] Yeah, prized pony.

[407] That's what I call Kristen.

[408] Absolutely.

[409] My little money -making pony.

[410] Get out there, trot around.

[411] Oh, I'm like, and it's so true.

[412] Like, we all go up to our directors.

[413] Did I do a good job?

[414] Did you like it?

[415] We're like, how could I do better?

[416] Circus poodles.

[417] I never fucked up at work.

[418] I just totally fucked up in my life.

[419] And then when she did that and it got out and it was everywhere and it was the most humiliating, embarrassing, horrible, like thing that ever happened to me at that point at 13 years old, not a very long life at that point.

[420] Yeah.

[421] I just was like, oh, you know what?

[422] God.

[423] So I don't have to pretend to be like these Hollywood people that I've made a list about that I don't want to be like pretending to be perfect, the body, the face, the no aging, the perfection, the facade, don't really get to know me. And it's not that everyone in Hollywood had that.

[424] But growing up, there was a lot more of it then than there is now.

[425] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[426] And I was going, well, the water's out of the bottle.

[427] I can't do anything about it.

[428] I can't make this not have happened.

[429] So you know what?

[430] Thank God I'm never going to have to pretend to be a perfect Hollywood person with a facade who doesn't make mistakes and diets.

[431] never fucks up and it's just has my shit together and fuck it, bring on all the fuck -ups.

[432] And then all the kids I was around and the adults, because it was a shared age ward.

[433] So I was right or wrong.

[434] Oh, my God.

[435] So I was with old people and young people and everyone in between.

[436] Sex offenders, sex addicts.

[437] I mean, really crazy fucking people.

[438] It was a treatment facility.

[439] It wasn't Malibu, 30 days in a pool.

[440] I was so pissed off.

[441] That also just made me. I was so rebellious.

[442] I was like, fuck you in your Hollywood rehab.

[443] This is fucking like, this is an hour deep into the valley.

[444] This is a lockdown.

[445] One flew over the cuckoo's nest fucking shit show.

[446] And it was the best thing that could have happened.

[447] I needed that military style parenting.

[448] I'd never had a childhood.

[449] I'd never been, like, told to go to bed or do this or that.

[450] I was out of control.

[451] And with all empathy to my mom, she didn't know what the fuck to do with me. I didn't give her a choice.

[452] Yeah.

[453] Did she have a hand in me getting there?

[454] Absolutely.

[455] Did I give her a choice?

[456] No. She was out of options.

[457] This was the only way was to throw me in and lock the key.

[458] And I swear to God, it was the best thing that could have ever happened to me because I just like people with scars.

[459] And I like your scars if they're fresh, too.

[460] I don't need you to have lived it 30, 40 years ago, 20 years ago, 10 years ago.

[461] If your scars are from last year, good.

[462] Let's talk about that.

[463] I don't need your toughness.

[464] to be in the past for me to respect it.

[465] It can be right there.

[466] Ongoing.

[467] Yes.

[468] Yes, I agree.

[469] I wrestle with that.

[470] I could be better at owning my current struggles than just my past ones.

[471] Well, listen, was part of the liberation?

[472] Was it that going like, oh, now the world knows my mother locked me up?

[473] Like, now people understand what I'm up against.

[474] Was it just the, like, I don't have to hide anymore?

[475] I don't have to pretend in my future that I haven't struggled and I haven't failed.

[476] Right.

[477] Yeah, yeah.

[478] I hate society when it imposes on us that we can't have made mistakes.

[479] Yeah, yeah.

[480] Well, especially what you were 13, 13 years old.

[481] I hold that true to adults today.

[482] I think it's such a pitfall of us as humans that we persecute people for their flaws.

[483] Well, I remembered at the height of the kind of the Lindsay Loham saga, people being very judgmental of how she was acting.

[484] And I just was like, if you had given.

[485] me at 20 years old, $8 million, I would have died, like, launching a Ferrari off of Mal Holland while engaged in sex with strangers.

[486] Like, I would have fucking died in two seconds.

[487] So how on earth could I judge someone else?

[488] Like, I know if I had access to good stuff.

[489] What was the difference between 20 -year -old you and later you?

[490] How did you not die having sex in a Maserati or Ferrari off of Mall Holland?

[491] We don't know.

[492] Some of the things we think maybe I did die.

[493] Simulation is in his favor.

[494] We think I may have died.

[495] But I was largely saved by being broke through most of my addiction.

[496] So, like, I couldn't, you know, I could only go so far.

[497] But I like that you have said how close you came at times and put yourself in dangerous situations.

[498] Because I did that, too.

[499] And I think a lot of people might think that that all ended after the institution.

[500] And it didn't.

[501] Sure, sure.

[502] Those things aren't generally cleared up and trip anywhere.

[503] I get out of there and was fixed.

[504] How could you?

[505] Like, no one is fully formed at 14.

[506] Like, your frontal lobe is not even fully developed.

[507] I know, it's true.

[508] To work in progress.

[509] I love the scientific approach.

[510] No, it's true.

[511] Because really, chemically, you should never be expected to be making good decisions because you can't.

[512] Well, I went to my first duplex where my mom and I lived.

[513] It's a nice reality check to what I think people think people from Hollywood.

[514] or Hollywood families come from.

[515] It's extremely humble.

[516] And then I go to my first apartment that I was at when I was 14.

[517] And I was so scared shitless living there.

[518] I couldn't sleep at night.

[519] I only slept during the day when I felt safe enough.

[520] And when I went back to the building, all the individual apartments have gated doors on them.

[521] That's how dangerous it is.

[522] And the windows all are shattered and barred.

[523] Yeah, this is the late 80s in Hollywood.

[524] This is a different Hollywood.

[525] And it's still exactly the same.

[526] And then I took a camera and I went and sat outside the institution deep in the valley.

[527] And I sat out there and I basically said, I want this to be an invitation for us not to be embarrassed about the things we've encountered and put ourselves in and endured.

[528] maybe we can be more stripped down and honest and embracing of if there's any pride in any day of our lives, it took every single thing to get there.

[529] And then you'll probably have to wake up and start a new because new problems will whack them all themselves right up.

[530] When I was thinking about, and I said this to Monica, I'm like, this interview could be a trillion different things.

[531] I mean, it's like, it's like, I like interviewing Nicholson and the fact that you've literally been doing it for 46 years.

[532] God fucking bless you.

[533] Best nights ever.

[534] I mean, you've lived so many lives.

[535] He is the funnest.

[536] I regret never getting to do that.

[537] Listen, I'm going to be honest.

[538] If Nicholson calls me and says like, look, man, the only thing I want to do, the last thing on my bucket list is to bang through an eight ball with you, I think I might call my sponsor me. I'm going to, I'll be gone for three days.

[539] But you understand, right?

[540] It's Nicholson.

[541] Mulligan.

[542] Nicholson v. X. Mulkin X. Nicholson.

[543] By the way, he has the most amazing art, too.

[544] So, like, you're partying and you're getting to, like, finger the most incredible art. He's so brilliant and so much fun.

[545] He's such a good person.

[546] Seemingly partied his whole life with no fucking problem.

[547] This guy doesn't exist.

[548] How?

[549] These are bad examples of, like, what is possible?

[550] But Keith just lived.

[551] He also will admit he was fucking sick a ton.

[552] I don't know that Nicholson's ever not felt great when he woke up.

[553] I do think he wakes up feeling really good.

[554] And I have not spent the night, just so we're clear about that.

[555] I always left.

[556] Our relationship was not that type of relationship.

[557] We were friends.

[558] And we would have dinner and party and just talk.

[559] And then I would leave and there was nothing lascivious about it.

[560] Good for him.

[561] I'm going to add.

[562] Yeah, that's kind of a bad thing for me to say, but yeah.

[563] This is off topic, but I got to say, I really do think it's harder for some people to get sober than others.

[564] The example I give is someone who we were going to interview went on a bender, couldn't get a hold of them, finally got him.

[565] Then we do this thing.

[566] Everyone loves him just at the bottom of the barrel.

[567] Then we leave the stage, and he feels good again, obviously, for all the reasons you would feel good.

[568] And I was like, oh, that's it.

[569] It can be very dangerous to be charismatic and likable and talented because you can lift yourself out of a lot of fucking ditches.

[570] You have to think that you're likable and charismatic in order to dig yourself out of those ditches.

[571] And I don't have that accessible to me. But the trip to Nicholson's, you go like, I'm a fucking piece of shit, blah, blah.

[572] And then I have this wonderful experience with someone who I love and idolize.

[573] And I leave going like, well, I can't be that big of a piece of shit because this person I love wanting to spend time with me. It could be ex -joling.

[574] No, I'm still like, he's waking up happy and I'm waking up self -flagellating about something completely separate.

[575] Okay, okay.

[576] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[577] What's up, guys, this is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[578] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[579] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[580] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[581] And I don't mean just friends.

[582] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivicle.

[583] Fox.

[584] The list goes on.

[585] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[586] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[587] We've all been there.

[588] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[589] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[590] like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[591] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[592] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[593] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[594] Follow Mr. Ballin's medical mysteries wherever you get your Podcasts.

[595] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[596] Okay, back to what I was going to say when I was thinking about the million things this interview could be.

[597] The real thing I'm interested in is your life has been the only life you've ever known.

[598] So everything that's happened to it is, quote, normal.

[599] Like, everyone's life is normal to them.

[600] Yes.

[601] And I wonder, and we've dealt with this a lot on here where no one's angry about it.

[602] They're just simply acknowledging that the situations they were in in the 90s, were by today's standards, they were not healthy, good situations.

[603] But culturally at the time, it wasn't a thing.

[604] And I wonder how you compute all that.

[605] Are you going back in your memory, going like, wow, man, I was, like, I just read in your thing, like you used to hang out at Studio 54.

[606] I don't know if you were 11 or 12 years old or something.

[607] 7, 8 and 9.

[608] Okay, even more than that's fucking Lincoln's age.

[609] What would Lincoln be doing at fucking?

[610] I know.

[611] So do you look back, like, because I know there's, is the personal experience, which would have been, I would have just been excited to be at this place.

[612] So the personal experiential part would be that.

[613] But then in looking back, you must go like, well, obviously I shouldn't have been there.

[614] And these adults should have not.

[615] So how do you compute what you went through?

[616] Because you have probably the personal experiential part, which is good.

[617] And now you probably recognize a lot of this shit was really fucked.

[618] I have no judgment towards it.

[619] I really don't.

[620] And I actually wouldn't change it if I could.

[621] Okay, great.

[622] I feel like that's how I would feel, but I don't know.

[623] I am so glad that that is my memory strip, seeing Joan Rivers in the rafters of Studio 54 and partying with Grace Jones, Billy Idol, Stephen Piracy from Brat, putting eye shadow to my temples because I didn't think they were just for lids at that point.

[624] And no, I could not have loved my childhood more.

[625] Good.

[626] Then I can enjoy hearing these stories.

[627] I'm actually really prideful about my life, and there's no negative feelings.

[628] In fact, I almost am protective of it.

[629] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[630] Like, don't take my joy away.

[631] Right.

[632] You can't tell me that was bad.

[633] In fact, fuck you.

[634] You can tell me to be bad for you.

[635] That's fine.

[636] But now we get to me as a parent.

[637] Sure.

[638] And holy shit.

[639] You of all people, you of all people, because I'm constantly looking at my kids and I'm going, Oh, this is the age that that happened.

[640] Wow, I was too young for it.

[641] But for you, it's that times 300.

[642] No, it's the same thing because I know your timelines of age because you've been open about them.

[643] And it doesn't matter if it was Studio 54 or seeing your dad abuse your mom as I saw my dad abuse my mom.

[644] Yep.

[645] That is invalidating any sense of safety.

[646] And it is traumatizing and it is horrible.

[647] and I don't want to make it ever my excuse.

[648] I don't allow that.

[649] But at some point, maybe that can be the tools in your arsenal to have this animalistic empathy for younger people and say, what do I think you deserve, especially in light of what I've seen.

[650] I say to myself, I don't know what anybody has to do.

[651] For me, I just go, holy shit, I would never, ever, ever.

[652] Let my kids do any of this.

[653] I want them to be kids.

[654] And I don't put my kids on social media.

[655] I'm like a fucking Doberman about them.

[656] And they watch TikTok.

[657] They love social media.

[658] They love coming to the show.

[659] They get in a bad mood when they realize they won't be put on camera.

[660] Sure, sure.

[661] But they know good, goddamn well.

[662] Why?

[663] Because I'm like, I want you to be kids.

[664] Yeah.

[665] And everything is so different with each generation, especially the way we parent.

[666] My God, I grew up around parents smoking while they were pregnant.

[667] That was common and drinking.

[668] Yeah.

[669] And now, I mean, you are just taken to task if you do one thing wrong as a parent.

[670] And I hate that too.

[671] I hate the parent shaming.

[672] I hate the pressure.

[673] I hate the guilt.

[674] I hate that society has set up impossible standards for people.

[675] Oh, sure.

[676] Yeah, yeah.

[677] As if parents don't beat themselves up enough.

[678] And I would rather my kids go, I really would have liked to have been there and done all fun stuff, rather than going, I didn't want that.

[679] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[680] Because then you can never take it back.

[681] You're right.

[682] But I don't judge anyone who does it.

[683] They don't have my life experience, so they don't have that baggage.

[684] Right.

[685] I just am impressed that you're not resentful.

[686] I understand feeling like, yes, my childhood was fun and I got all these great memories and I would never trade it in.

[687] But I'm surprised that you don't have resentment towards, like, the bouncer at the bar or just like every adult on earth around you who was like watching this happen and saying, okay.

[688] They were probably young then too and not parents themselves.

[689] They thought it was cute.

[690] Yeah, it's cute.

[691] Oh, the little Hollywood girl, like a shirt to the front of the line.

[692] Also, if it was me, like my favorite compliment always when I'd be with my dad and those people didn't even know me, they'd be meeting me for the first.

[693] And they'd always be like, oh, he's so adult.

[694] I loved that.

[695] At the time, but I'm saying now as an adult.

[696] Like looking back at the time, seeing all these who are supposed to be protectors.

[697] I don't blame anybody.

[698] Is there any aspect of it?

[699] Like, I had sex really young.

[700] I had sex in 12 in seventh grade.

[701] And I don't regret it at all.

[702] I can look at it and go like, emotionally I was not mature enough because after it was over, I was like, I didn't know what the fuck to do.

[703] I want to dematerialize.

[704] Like, what do I do now?

[705] I was not ready for intimacy or anything.

[706] So I can look back on it and go, well, objectively, I was way too young.

[707] But at the same time, I don't regret it at all.

[708] So I wonder, is there any part of it?

[709] of it that you're like, nothing.

[710] I have no. Weirdly, my baggage isn't emotional baggage.

[711] It's baggage that makes me probably pretty staunch about some things as a parent.

[712] Like, these are my boundaries.

[713] By the way, I have been so fucking humbled as a parent when people say, well, you've got to set boundaries with kids.

[714] I might cry literally because it's so embarrassing where I'm, like, I don't know what that is.

[715] Right.

[716] None had been set for you.

[717] Uh -uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[718] And I'm so sorry.

[719] It's also very, very hard.

[720] People are like, this is the way it should be done.

[721] And I'm like, okay, I believe you.

[722] But I don't know what that means.

[723] I'm going to have to admit right now, being the parent, I'm going to have to get the fuck outside of my ego and let you know, I don't know these answers.

[724] And I'm going to ask you questions.

[725] And I'm going to be really vulnerable and embarrassed because you're going to look at me like I don't know what I'm doing and I'm not experienced and maybe I'm even incapable.

[726] But I got to ask, what the fuck do you mean by a boundary about X, Y, and Z?

[727] I didn't have them.

[728] Right, right.

[729] And I don't know what they are.

[730] So your expectation of me is something you're going to have to also enlighten me and empower me about too.

[731] Yeah.

[732] But asking makes you.

[733] It's so admirable.

[734] Yeah.

[735] It makes you a good mom.

[736] Thank you.

[737] It does.

[738] That's the only thing that makes someone good is being like, I'm going to ask for help.

[739] You have that over me by a tenfold.

[740] I'm so bad at that and it's such a shitty character, flaw of mine.

[741] But I do think the parenting thing, I don't know of one other than maybe sexual insecurity or like hating how you look.

[742] There's something about like thinking you fucked up as a parent for me that is really, really hard.

[743] Like it's one of the worst.

[744] I have like four memories that I think of all the time.

[745] And in eight and a half years, I have like four members.

[746] I'm like, I really didn't do that right.

[747] And that's a real bummer.

[748] And I think about that a lot.

[749] Or I didn't attend to the baby's crying in a way that probably it should have been, but I thought something else was happening.

[750] And someone said, and I'm so embarrassed by the whole situation.

[751] Like, I think about it all.

[752] I called the person and apologized.

[753] Like, I'm still embarrassed six years later that I was.

[754] You know, there's something real carnal about the shame with parenting.

[755] I was just going to say, you just took the word right out of my mouth.

[756] I'm like, that I identify as shame.

[757] Yeah.

[758] That is a direct hearken back to your own childhood because you're not rescuing yourself in that moment.

[759] And no one was there to rescue you.

[760] And there is so much shame and guilt that comes with parenting because you think that it's your chance to do things differently.

[761] To give yourself the parenting you deserved or something.

[762] And just not do that for them.

[763] Ironically, I hated perfection so much.

[764] And yet there's no room for any lack of, of it for me as a parent.

[765] I give myself no passes.

[766] Right, right.

[767] But there's no such thing.

[768] I know.

[769] That's so like, you can't do it perfect.

[770] You're chasing a thing that literally does not exist.

[771] I know.

[772] Even God's son was killed through his own, you know, even God did do a good job with his son.

[773] Yeah.

[774] I mean, geez.

[775] And that guy had all the resources, I think.

[776] That's what we've been told.

[777] Now, the other question I had for you that I don't think is answerable.

[778] But I have the very distinct memory of living 28 years anonymously and then from 28 till now publicly.

[779] Yeah.

[780] And with a public person which jubbles down on all of it.

[781] Sure.

[782] It really heightens it.

[783] Yes, it does.

[784] But she too spent a long period as a civilian, right?

[785] Not famous.

[786] Yep.

[787] And so I think I use that as a mooring or an anchor.

[788] Yeah.

[789] For reality.

[790] For reality.

[791] Where I'm computing.

[792] And what's really interesting, and this is not critical of my wife.

[793] But my wife's been famous for longer than I have as a percentage of her life, right?

[794] So she got famous younger than I was.

[795] Right.

[796] So she's like 40, 60, you're 60, 40.

[797] Yes, or something like that.

[798] I love when people also promote the 80 -20 lifestyle.

[799] Someone just did today.

[800] Our earlier guest was talking 80 -20.

[801] Yeah, I'm sure.

[802] Everybody loves that 80 -20.

[803] That's a pop thing.

[804] I had to hurt it.

[805] I don't think until that earlier.

[806] Oh, my God.

[807] Bader mine off, frequency illusion.

[808] It's happening everywhere.

[809] So, and to make it really personal, I dated a game.

[810] who had been famous her whole life.

[811] And this is probably my own insecurity or it's, I guarantee it's something for me. Oh, I cannot wait to hear what you're about to say.

[812] I feel like I can tell you if it's you or them.

[813] Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's me. But I wanted to be able to say, like, remember when you had to wait in line and everyone hated seeing you and no one was happy to help you?

[814] Like all these things that really, they're stark.

[815] And, you know, like once you're famous, you're a hot girl.

[816] Like, everywhere you go, people are happy to give you a coffee.

[817] Like, that's not life.

[818] And so I was always wrestling with like, is this going to be a barrier between us that she doesn't have any memories of not being special?

[819] Right.

[820] And how does she compute that?

[821] And I'm so curious how you compute that if you even think about it.

[822] Does that matter?

[823] Is there anything real about what I'm saying?

[824] I don't know.

[825] I'm just really curious.

[826] I'm sure other men I've dated have felt exactly the same way about me. And that's when they start going, I'm going to make you feel not special.

[827] Not special.

[828] Oh, I bet.

[829] They're going to bring justice to the same.

[830] Yeah.

[831] I'm the real world.

[832] And you need to take this medicine because then you'll understand what the real.

[833] Yeah.

[834] And also, they're all liars.

[835] I'm the truth.

[836] So let me gaslight you into thinking that your touchstone is here.

[837] That's so complicated and confusing because they're telling you that they're saving you from being lied to, but really they are lying to you.

[838] But, oh, That's what gaslighting is.

[839] And it's happened numerous times.

[840] And then there have been people in my life of the male gender who have just said, I just can't handle this.

[841] This is just too much for me. I'm sorry, I'm out.

[842] I've had that quite a few times.

[843] How do you feel in that situation?

[844] Like, do you first go like, I don't even know what you're talking about.

[845] What's so much?

[846] I hate it.

[847] Yeah.

[848] I'm like, I can't.

[849] You can't shake that.

[850] You can't change that.

[851] It's when Howard asked me, what do you want?

[852] And I was like, someone to come into my life and not try to change my existence.

[853] It's going to take a very confident person.

[854] You know what?

[855] I have been contending with relationships my whole life.

[856] I am literally the opposite of Charlotte York and sex in the city instead of being like, I'm 35.

[857] I've been looking for him my whole life.

[858] Where is he?

[859] I'm like, I'm 46.

[860] I'm fucking exhausted.

[861] And I'm genuinely afraid.

[862] to have anyone come in and make me walk on eggshells again.

[863] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[864] So I'm just really happy on my own.

[865] And nothing seems appealing enough to give that up right now.

[866] Yeah.

[867] But that's now, it has been like that for like six years.

[868] And I don't think it'll stay that way.

[869] Life has chapters.

[870] This is just the one I'm in now.

[871] I'm feeling guilty about that thought I had.

[872] Part of it is clearly insecurity, right?

[873] Like, oh, if I can't relate to her in this thing, I somehow won't be able to occupy.

[874] I don't know.

[875] Like, it's just insecurity for me. But in your situation, it's like, I don't know what you're asking me to do, have a different background?

[876] Exactly.

[877] Like, it's not like you snore, you smoke too much.

[878] Yeah.

[879] You cannot address this.

[880] It's why I just want to ring people's necks when they hold people's pasts against them.

[881] And that happens with lots of couples who meet out there from all over the world.

[882] I just want to say, I don't play that.

[883] Please do not.

[884] fault someone for things they simply cannot change.

[885] Why do that to them?

[886] And the circumstances are very similar.

[887] The feelings are very similar.

[888] And I try to just think, even though I've had some really radical circumstances in my life, back to your question of, do you know what it's like to go out there and not be treated special?

[889] Yes, being institutionalized for 18 months with no privileges and being.

[890] People stop by for a second, but then they left.

[891] And it was back to the real shit.

[892] Yeah, that was a good wake -up call of reality.

[893] Not being able to get cast or get a job for many years and have casting directors tell me, do you know how lucky you are to even be in this room right now?

[894] Yeah, they'm sure resented you.

[895] Or working in a coffee house and aren't you that person?

[896] Oh, that's so sad what happened to you.

[897] Wait a minute.

[898] Did you work in a coffee house?

[899] You did.

[900] Yeah, I did.

[901] Oh, my God.

[902] This is one of my great fantasies.

[903] Tell me about it.

[904] I always say I want to just get a job at Starbucks.

[905] Someone will be like, what's so interesting?

[906] He works here.

[907] Yeah, my boss hated me. He thought I was just so...

[908] It's like the most privileged sentence I've ever heard come out of anyone's mouth.

[909] That's why you guys are friends.

[910] This is totally why this works, because I'm constantly an asshole.

[911] No, I just think it'd be really fun for the customer.

[912] Like, if I went to Burger King and I got a rectangle chicken sandwich, heavy mayonnaise, I pulled up to the thing and fucking Ted Danzan hand me the bag, I'd be like, woo!

[913] I know, I know.

[914] What a fucking day.

[915] God, if you put Ted Dantzance in anything, you save it, seriously.

[916] specifically, yeah.

[917] Wait, so what coffee shop did you work?

[918] It was called the living room, and it was the hot spot in L .A. It was in the 90s.

[919] You name it.

[920] The cool kids were there, and it's where I made friends with a girl named Cameron Diaz.

[921] Would she work there, too?

[922] She was 16.

[923] She was a junior model.

[924] She used to come in there.

[925] What?

[926] I worked there.

[927] That's crazy.

[928] And I loved her because I was like, this girl is so beautiful and such a good.

[929] She's a fucking goof.

[930] And I was like, that's what hot is.

[931] It's not Marty Feldman's hotter to me than like a GQ model any day because Marty Feldman's going to be bringing the goods.

[932] That's right.

[933] If anyone knows who Marty Feldman is, thank you.

[934] I love you.

[935] And if you don't, he is the one who's in the Melbrook's movies with the sort of large eyes and he tends to take on a more quasi -modo -like role because he's very unique looking.

[936] So personality for me any day overlooks.

[937] I've met the hottest people who I'm like, oh my God, get me out of here.

[938] And I married Tom Greed because I was like, I love what you're doing.

[939] I've never seen this before.

[940] This is like fucking candid camera on steroids.

[941] What the hell?

[942] You're such a pioneer.

[943] He's a pioneer.

[944] And I fell in love with them for it.

[945] And I fall in love.

[946] Andy Warholz says fall in love with your eyes closed.

[947] I love that.

[948] But I'm like, I just fall in love with the person.

[949] person.

[950] And I fell in love with her.

[951] Yeah.

[952] And we became friends.

[953] I kind of imagine a lot of people walked into that coffee shop and we're just like, what the fuck?

[954] Drew Barrymore's in there.

[955] Half of it was like, oh, wow, cool.

[956] And half of it was like very melodramatic sad.

[957] Oh, that would be rough for me to be pitied.

[958] Yeah.

[959] And I was like, you have no idea.

[960] My boss hates me way more than like you feel sorry for me because he thinks I fuck up all the cases by scraping them with the wrong side of the sponge and are you like 16 14 okay 14 is even that is way too young to be working at a coffee shop but also like that's the age that people work in coffee shops and have jobs like that I loved I enjoyed it you have a great attitude thank you really really really I love that that's a positive story like when you had a yeah yeah and I love that my boss thought I sucked so badly I was like I know I do don't I I'm shit at this this is why you make a good addict I do too like I enjoy every situation I'm in, even when they're horrendous.

[961] Like, when I tell them, I'm like, yeah, it was pretty great.

[962] I thought it was hard to say.

[963] You like a story.

[964] I like a story.

[965] You really like a story.

[966] That's probably more accurate.

[967] Okay.

[968] We were about to talk about love.

[969] Oh, I feel lucky that I did get to meet someone.

[970] His name is Will.

[971] We share our children, and he just got remarried, actually, last week, to this most amazing woman.

[972] Cameron Diaz?

[973] That would be so trippy.

[974] Well, we'd have a short hand.

[975] So that would be weirdly convenient.

[976] Yeah.

[977] No, he got him married to this incredible woman, Allie.

[978] And I just feel like I won the lottery with her.

[979] Like, I really did.

[980] Oh, that's a great place to be.

[981] Oh, we're going to Hamilton together.

[982] Like, I've been texting them on their honeymoon with invitations to our daughter Olive's birthday.

[983] Like, do you like this invitation?

[984] Is this good to go to send out?

[985] I feel like I'm lucky that there's this new, beautiful.

[986] soul that came in to our lives and I don't try to be her best friend.

[987] She knows that I absolutely worship the ground she walks on and I'm her biggest cheerleader, but I give them space.

[988] We hang out.

[989] We do dinners, all the kids' birthdays.

[990] We might take a trip together.

[991] We're finding our way in a beautiful, slow, respectful manner.

[992] And I'm just so lucky because she came in to Will's life and got to know my daughters very well and very real, saw all the warts and all the hearts and everything in between, and literally was like, I choose you.

[993] And it's a miracle.

[994] And I know miracles exist because I was so devastated that our relationship didn't work out because I wanted this, my kids will have a mom and a dad.

[995] My kids will have a together household.

[996] And then when it wasn't that, I think I had like a true nervous breakdown.

[997] Yes.

[998] When you've told yourself that, and you're now saying, I have failed at this most important thing to me, it's got to be the most devastating.

[999] It was.

[1000] When kids are involved, the stakes are higher and different than anything I've ever known for myself.

[1001] Nothing I've ever seen or done compared to that devastation.

[1002] And I stayed in that place for a few years.

[1003] I was having a hard time coping.

[1004] Yeah.

[1005] And I was smiling and I was living a lie.

[1006] Yeah.

[1007] And I was in the greatest pain of my life.

[1008] who did you tell yourself you were doing it for for them yeah and i think will and i did a kick -ass job like of putting our kids first and showing solidarity i'm super close with this family we still do holidays i still stay at their house i was like the divorce is going to happen but nothing's going to change and everyone just got on board and we did and it's a testament to every member of the family.

[1009] My mom and dad did that, and I was very grateful for that.

[1010] They were very civil to each other.

[1011] My dad was allowed to spend the night on Christmas sometimes, so we'd be there in the morning, and that was the way to go.

[1012] I have the same panic, and that would be such a failure for me, because again, yeah, a bunch of divorces and a bunch of marriages, I don't want that for my kids.

[1013] But at the same time, you have to also step back and go, like, 80 % of my best friends are products of divorce, and I adore all them, and they're great people, and what the And the opposite end of that is having parents that are together that shouldn't be together.

[1014] That's not great either.

[1015] And I knew that wasn't an option.

[1016] Yeah.

[1017] And it was heartbreaking for Will and I that we could not get on the same page, but we didn't want to have our kids grow up in strife.

[1018] Yeah.

[1019] But Nan, the almighty Nan in my life.

[1020] Straightened your ass out.

[1021] I called her and I was like, okay, this is going to happen for real.

[1022] And I couldn't breathe.

[1023] And it had been building for a long time, and we worked on it, Will and I. We worked with his parents.

[1024] We were honest.

[1025] There was no scandal.

[1026] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1027] There was nothing.

[1028] It was heartbreaking, but it just wasn't working.

[1029] And everyone in the family supported us through every step of it.

[1030] And so I turned to my family, Nan, and I was like, well, this is it.

[1031] And I just said, I just can't believe that this is happening.

[1032] And she goes, you remember I'm from divorced parents?

[1033] Right.

[1034] And I was like, oh, my God.

[1035] god i forgot yeah it didn't fit the story you were telling yourself which is you've ruined your children's life and that the person i've loved and is the most well -behaved well -adjusted emotionally rational just fucking north star for how to live a life and behave and treat people and work and every goddamn thing in the world is from divorced parents and i was like oh my god thank you barack obama is from divorced parents should we all be so lucky yeah To raise a little baroques.

[1036] And it will be okay.

[1037] And then it just wasn't okay.

[1038] I don't know how I did.

[1039] Again, I didn't get a pass for myself.

[1040] Right.

[1041] I've worked through that finally.

[1042] But it took me, I would say, five years.

[1043] Oof.

[1044] Yeah, this death of a dream just was not sitting well with me. And I could not overcome it.

[1045] And you look at people and you look at addicts or you look at people who are broken.

[1046] And you go, how did you get there?

[1047] Can I tell you, I interviewed my mother.

[1048] I asked her at one point, which I weirdly had never asked her because we have crazy, honest relationship.

[1049] And I was like, the thing that's still kind of perplexing to me is that the second husband beat you in front of us.

[1050] And that's not you.

[1051] You're a beast.

[1052] Started your own company, built your own house.

[1053] Like, I have a hard time reconciling how you as someone who's so assertive were in that situation.

[1054] She said, the shame of admitting I had failed again at this was too much.

[1055] I would rather get beat than call my parents and say, I fucked up again.

[1056] I'm getting divorced again.

[1057] And I was like, oh, man, that's fucking heavy.

[1058] Yeah, like, you'd rather get beat up by someone you hate than deal with that.

[1059] It's so real.

[1060] And by the way, it's so stupid because I've never looked at someone that got divorced and been like, what a failure.

[1061] I'm like, oh, yeah, it's very hard for people to fucking cohabitate.

[1062] I know.

[1063] I'm so hard.

[1064] Yeah, it's almost impossible.

[1065] I don't know anybody doesn't.

[1066] I love that you and your wife, like, talk about fighting and everything and you just keep it real.

[1067] That is the opposite of the Hollywood romance.

[1068] Our marriage is like sobriety.

[1069] It's a daily commitment.

[1070] Who fucking knows?

[1071] Oh, it's a daily.

[1072] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1073] That's what people need to hear.

[1074] They don't need the impossible couple out there.

[1075] We started that as girls with fairy tales.

[1076] That whole ridiculous notion really screwed us all up as kids.

[1077] And there's no reason to keep fostering that with any facade.

[1078] Break it down.

[1079] Keep it real.

[1080] Talk about how hard it is.

[1081] Yes.

[1082] This is what I'm curious about.

[1083] So, again, having been introduced to you in ways in that People article and being like, yeah.

[1084] You were like, someone else is a badass.

[1085] Like, I am.

[1086] Someone's a baddie.

[1087] Someone's a bad girl.

[1088] I want to play psychedelic first.

[1089] Love my ways for her.

[1090] And get high and skateboard and dye our hair.

[1091] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[1092] There.

[1093] So for me, this revelation is pretty new.

[1094] It started with the massage therapist.

[1095] She was massaging me. She was telling me about her childhood.

[1096] And she had a really crazy fucking childhood.

[1097] Right.

[1098] And I'm listening to it.

[1099] Listen to it.

[1100] And I said, you know, it's astounding.

[1101] You're not an addict.

[1102] Like, you clearly have enough trauma to have sent you to being an addict.

[1103] And she said, if I hadn't been such a good athlete, I had a cornerstone in my life where I was getting self -esteem from.

[1104] She's like, if I didn't have that, I'm sure I would have just gone down the complete tubes.

[1105] And then so I was.

[1106] thinking in my own mind like what was the thing i was hanging my hat on for confidence and i realized oh i've been using girls since i was 12 years old for that that was my sports that's that was your confidence as much as i would hate myself i'd be like but randy hamina likes me so i can go on why would randy hamina like me was it the conquering or the validation or both here's the pattern that girl's so out of my league she would never like me I'm going to try.

[1107] Oh, my God, this girl likes me. This can't be.

[1108] And then always following that was either, ooh, I mis -evaluated how good she was because why would she like me?

[1109] I was always hoping it would change my opinion of myself, but it never did.

[1110] And then so I had to move to someone who was then, I guess, theoretically, You would never belong to any club that would have you as a member.

[1111] Exactly.

[1112] Groucho marks it the whole way through.

[1113] And just selfishly, the validation, some of it probably the challenge of like, well, I'm not a jock.

[1114] and this girl only dates jocks, but let me see if I can talk my way into this situation.

[1115] The ultimate female aphrodisiac for women is funny, comedy, and you're funny.

[1116] As I gratefully learned.

[1117] In dancing, I tell all young men to learn to dance and tell a joke, you'll be just fine.

[1118] But I, to this day, you want to talk about owning real -time problems I have, I still need validation from every woman I meet.

[1119] What does your wife have to say about the psychology?

[1120] I'm so curious.

[1121] Well, she has observed it for 14 years.

[1122] Like, if we meet anyone, by the way, I do this with men, too.

[1123] I'm just crazy flirty.

[1124] Hence the calendar that you made.

[1125] That's right.

[1126] Yes.

[1127] I'm very flirty with men.

[1128] I'm very flirty with women.

[1129] I love engaging some playful thing.

[1130] And then if we can get engaged in that.

[1131] So it's not entirely like sex conquer.

[1132] It's intriguing.

[1133] Intriguing.

[1134] I want to get to the part where I'm like, oh, I think if we were both single, we could go on a day.

[1135] And then I'm done.

[1136] That goes for men, too.

[1137] Well.

[1138] No, you're a love addict.

[1139] I'm a love addict.

[1140] So what it is is like almost in every interaction, like having at least 30 seconds of we're in love.

[1141] I feel like you're searching for that in every interaction.

[1142] Male or female.

[1143] Yeah.

[1144] And to get there, there requires playfulness and flirtiness and intimacy.

[1145] Well, you'll never get anything from me. I'm dead inside.

[1146] Okay.

[1147] Thank you for letting me know.

[1148] You're barking up the wrong tree.

[1149] And then when you leave, I thought I was going to like Drew more.

[1150] I don't know why.

[1151] Yeah, exactly.

[1152] I've been dead for.

[1153] six years.

[1154] I will wake up at some point.

[1155] No, but it's already happened.

[1156] It's already happened in this interview.

[1157] Oh my God.

[1158] Yeah.

[1159] It's happened like 10 times.

[1160] Okay.

[1161] Good.

[1162] It's like a transferal of love and it only has to happen from what I can see.

[1163] Like he's just always searching for that high that love gives you.

[1164] Yeah.

[1165] And so it comes out in all interactions and it does give.

[1166] And it's a double ed sword.

[1167] I'm not trying to get rid of it.

[1168] It's why I'm a good interviewer.

[1169] Like I want to fall in love with everyone I'm interviewing.

[1170] I want to like connect in a way that we both walk away going like, ah, In another life we could have been best friends or in another life we could have been married.

[1171] I'm wondering how much of that you have.

[1172] First of all, the way you just said it for me is like the only way you need to explain it is like, I want to be able to fall in love with you and have that connection.

[1173] And now I'm poorly paraphrasing it.

[1174] We have it on tape so we can't go back to it, luckily.

[1175] But that I get.

[1176] I wasn't totally sure of what the intention was until you said it that way.

[1177] It sounds pervy.

[1178] It sounds like I'm leading towards I want to fuck everyone.

[1179] No, no. This is a zest that I completely now am crystal clear on what you are saying and what your intention is.

[1180] And I think those people make the world go round.

[1181] There we go.

[1182] I'm serious.

[1183] That type of passion and need and want, I love that.

[1184] So we'll connect on that because I totally get that.

[1185] But then there's also wreckage as if with anything else.

[1186] Like, for me, there's been wreckage.

[1187] Like, it's a very tricky amends to make because I don't want to call somebody and say, like, I was using you in your status to validate myself and that was unfair.

[1188] Right, right, right.

[1189] Because I don't want someone to think I didn't really like them because that's not the case either.

[1190] Well, I think it sounds very healthy that you can see every side of the cube here.

[1191] But it sounds like at the core, there's like this love junkie.

[1192] Big time.

[1193] That wants to have the moment of we could be best friends.

[1194] That was where the light bulb went off for me of like I could have a real relationship that doesn't have to be temporary.

[1195] And then all the sudden I'm going to like, is that an abandonment issue thing?

[1196] Is that a, if I get you to like me, you'll stay.

[1197] Yeah.

[1198] We can hook in and this doesn't have to end.

[1199] I don't like things that have to end.

[1200] I searched for a lot of permanence.

[1201] see growing up because of the no parents and every job ended and then I never saw these people again that I spent three intimate months with day in and day out and then they were just poof gone let's be honest for ET you had spent one fifth of your life with those people one fifth of your life I got lucky that one remained and that Steven Spielberg who I was just with recently and he and I actively sought out a relationship throughout our lives because he saw and recognized that I did not have that.

[1202] And for whatever, thank God, reason, he took it upon himself to be a consistency in my life.

[1203] And I love him so much because since I was six years old, he was the first man I met who was, and this is the key word, safe.

[1204] He was safe.

[1205] He represented safety, and he still does.

[1206] And I love him for it.

[1207] And I thank God that he's still in my life because that proves that he's safe.

[1208] It wasn't just a flash in the pan.

[1209] safety he's still there well can i say something though so he's a great guy yes also i just showed my kids et like for the first time oh really it's the best story it was about a year and a half ago because our now six -year -old was like four and a half and she when we were laying in bed she's like i don't ever want to see gt again gt's scary i'm like gt is scary yes gt so scary my kids haven't like really gotten into it.

[1210] They weren't that into it years ago either and they gave up on it and I was thinking maybe I'll try again now.

[1211] No, listen to me. My eight year old loved it.

[1212] It's a fucking, what a movie.

[1213] I mean, you're in Godfather, but that's neither here nor there.

[1214] When I was watching it, I was like, it's this in Shirley Temple maybe of the two cutest human beings that were ever, ever put on celluloid.

[1215] Thank you.

[1216] Oh my God, that little girl.

[1217] Like so part of me's like, yes, Spielberg's a nice guy, but also like, who wouldn't have fallen in love with that fucking.

[1218] little girl.

[1219] Oh, my God.

[1220] He made the decision to stay.

[1221] He wasn't using her status to elevate his own self -esteem.

[1222] It doesn't sound like it.

[1223] No, he had his own source of self -esteem and he was able to stick around.

[1224] And how good of him to recognize, and I bet he felt this way like, oh, I changed this human being's life.

[1225] And that comes with some responsibility.

[1226] And I bet that's part of it.

[1227] And that's a cool way to acknowledge it.

[1228] We've never said it that way, but.

[1229] He changed your fucking life.

[1230] I've written about.

[1231] it.

[1232] I wrote a chapter in a book I wrote called The School of E .T. because he did.

[1233] He single -handedly changed my life.

[1234] He was also someone who I didn't realize until I was older, was also very fatherly.

[1235] He calls me as first kid.

[1236] And he was appalled by me wearing red lipstick.

[1237] Or when I did Playboy, he sent the whole art department to put blankets in boxes and cover my body with the art department.

[1238] And he sent me a note, cover up.

[1239] And he did.

[1240] And he did.

[1241] did not like me acting older than my age.

[1242] And that is how a parent is supposed to make you feel.

[1243] And no one ever made me feel that way.

[1244] And I didn't even understand it when I was growing up.

[1245] And now I'm like, God, you really were the only fatherly person in my life.

[1246] And he wasn't mean about it, but he was just like, wipe the lipstick off.

[1247] You're too young.

[1248] Yeah, cut the shit.

[1249] Yes, I loved it.

[1250] Plenty of time for that.

[1251] By the way, my girls can't get their ear pierced into their 10 because he made me wait until I was 10.

[1252] he's given me so much in my life and I'm so glad that he changed my life and then it was mine to fuck up and then it's mine to get it right and then it's mine to fuck up again and then it's mine to get it right again and my whole life would be so different without him taking a shine to me and the fact that you compared me to Shirley Temple is going to make me drive out on clouds and roller skate because I love Shirley Temple also the fact that you don't already know that Yeah, that's pretty good.

[1253] It's good.

[1254] We would hate her if she knew it.

[1255] I know.

[1256] I would hate me if I know it.

[1257] I do want to go back to the father of your children's new wife.

[1258] Allie.

[1259] Because, again, I find so many pieces so admirable that you said that was the darkest time in your life and it was such a hurdle.

[1260] And now you're so accepting of this other person.

[1261] And that is so hard.

[1262] Most humans would have such a hard time with that.

[1263] How do you have that?

[1264] She had nothing to do with our problems.

[1265] And I know people who also have been in situations where I could list off 10 scenarios that I don't have to contend with.

[1266] Possessive of my children.

[1267] She's not likes them, but doesn't love them.

[1268] Kind of is like secretly inside like, I don't want someone with baggage.

[1269] I'd like to clean slate for my life.

[1270] That's not the road she's choosing.

[1271] Yeah.

[1272] Someone who says, I'll deal with this.

[1273] but I don't want to deal with the mom.

[1274] Someone who wants to exploit my kids, she has a private Instagram, I love her.

[1275] Someone who wasn't a good example to my kids of what a woman should be.

[1276] Yeah.

[1277] Someone who doesn't take care of themselves and doesn't have a life where they can bring things back to the table.

[1278] She checks every box.

[1279] Yeah.

[1280] It could have not been that.

[1281] And then I think that would have been the nail in my coffin.

[1282] Like, I think that would have taken my nervous breakdown, brought it right back up to the surface, and I would have just been like, I can't handle that.

[1283] Like, I don't even know.

[1284] You might have been back in Van Nuys.

[1285] I might have been back in Van Nuys for real, not shooting it, going, hey, we all have a pass.

[1286] I would be putting myself back in there.

[1287] When your plans don't happen, then what does?

[1288] And for me, in my own tiny existence, this is the most.

[1289] ideal situation that could ever be and I am so fucking grateful for all the things that not only is it not but that it actually is it's a fucking really great way to look at it it it sounds like you made a pros and cons list and there's virtually no cons and all pros and you were able to acknowledge and it is my truth and I've never in my life not even as a kid locked up in an institution felt as broken as I did with the not realizing this total ideal I set up for myself.

[1290] Like I really just thought there's only one way this is going to go and it's going to be perfect.

[1291] Again, something I know doesn't even exist.

[1292] I set myself up for a lot there.

[1293] But I've worked through it and I feel so much stronger.

[1294] And also, I for myself, I hope, I get better with each day, month, year of my life at forgiving myself because I'm so good at forgiving everyone and everything else.

[1295] Yeah.

[1296] Like, I don't like not forgiving.

[1297] I think you're actually doing yourself a huge disservice if you want to look at it selfishly.

[1298] As we say in AA, it's drinking poison, hoping your enemy dies.

[1299] Exactly.

[1300] Yeah.

[1301] It's the perfect metaphor.

[1302] You not forgiving is carrying a. around stinking bags of shit.

[1303] Yeah, yeah.

[1304] And it's heavy and it smells bad.

[1305] And they don't give a fuck that you're carrying.

[1306] They don't not at all.

[1307] No, they don't think about it once.

[1308] Forgiveness is absolutely the best thing you can do for other people and yourself.

[1309] Yeah, yeah.

[1310] I got to spend a lot of time just giving myself that same fucking slack I cut everyone else.

[1311] Well, what has happened to me, and that's why I recognize how unbelievably painful what you went through was.

[1312] because really, I probably switched my mooring from women to my children.

[1313] So, like, I get so much esteem out of being a dad.

[1314] And times I've had career failures.

[1315] They were half as bad because I was like, oh, yeah, that's not the real job.

[1316] The real job is these kids.

[1317] Like, the whole house of cards built on these kids.

[1318] So I recognize, like, if they were pulled out in any way, I'd have a real crisis of identity because it is the cornerstone of my self -esteem.

[1319] And I like it.

[1320] I like who I am a lot as a result of those kids.

[1321] I just felt a lot more in love with you as I already was because I wished anything was a catalyst for me to be my best self.

[1322] Nothing was until I met my kids.

[1323] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1324] Same.

[1325] I could be a highly functioning person at work.

[1326] I was a woman in the boardroom and a child in the bedroom.

[1327] And I didn't fucking care.

[1328] I would drive with people intoxicated on Mulholland, how I didn't go over that side and I'm dead.

[1329] I don't know.

[1330] My life was an absolute experiment and how far can I push this?

[1331] Sure, sure, sure.

[1332] And idiocy and immortality and just complete delusion and hedonism and selfishness and a lot of fun and adventure.

[1333] Again, I wouldn't change a thing.

[1334] But it was like I had my kids.

[1335] and I changed.

[1336] I know that I couldn't also be honest with people that I didn't want to act for a while.

[1337] That gave you the permission to let yourself.

[1338] People weren't very supportive of that with me. They kept saying, people don't want to hear you say that.

[1339] I don't want to hear you say that.

[1340] And I was like, okay.

[1341] And I didn't admit it for years.

[1342] And the reason I didn't want to was because, A, you know the hour.

[1343] You wake up before your kids do and you get home after.

[1344] Don't even think I'm having a pity party.

[1345] It's an exquisite life, well -paid, ridiculous privilege.

[1346] That is not what I'm saying.

[1347] It's just it was an hour's thing that didn't sit right with me anymore.

[1348] And then I didn't want to be anyone else.

[1349] I didn't want to pretend to be someone else.

[1350] I didn't want to study someone else's life and become them.

[1351] I couldn't come to grips with the fact that I didn't want to do the job I had done my entire life anymore because all I wanted to do is be their mom yeah yeah yeah it doesn't sound like you did but I'm gonna guess some other aspect so I imagine you're a little love addictie you didn't say you were but I imagine okay not anymore because I'm dead inside but right right I was your vagina is a Sahara desert from head to toe it's just dust tumbleweeds blowing around it is it little what did you say is something on a tumbleweed farting That's how it was a cricket, right, and tumblewee, it's farting.

[1352] It's like you even say, like, vagina or the word sex, I literally am like, like, I've almost converted backwards to, like, a child myself.

[1353] But I think also, I don't know if this happens for other mothers, but once I had my kids, it's like my libido, my focus, my interests, and my marriage fell apart.

[1354] Like, I just have been like, I don't know.

[1355] Yeah, yeah.

[1356] I'm not there.

[1357] I'm not there in my head and my heart.

[1358] It's so much harder for women.

[1359] I mean, your body converts into a feeding station.

[1360] I mean, there's just, there's a lot going on.

[1361] Shit gets real weird.

[1362] Yeah.

[1363] But there are women out there who are extremely healthy in that area.

[1364] No, really.

[1365] I know, I know.

[1366] We know some of them.

[1367] I'm like, holy shit, I don't have that thing.

[1368] I also lived an amazing life.

[1369] I really lived.

[1370] I really, I had a great time.

[1371] You didn't leave any stone.

[1372] unturned.

[1373] I really didn't.

[1374] And I'm so satiated.

[1375] And then it turns into would I have a relationship?

[1376] I'm terrified.

[1377] I'm really terrified of walking on eggshells.

[1378] I'm really terrified of it.

[1379] I've got such a good thing going with my life right now.

[1380] I'm so scared of someone coming in and trying to take me down, which has been a lot of my experience, not with Will, not with some men.

[1381] It's just, it's happened repeatedly.

[1382] I'm really happy.

[1383] I'm so scared to let anyone come in and try to bite away at that.

[1384] I think you should protect that with your life.

[1385] But this is what I want to ask you about your kids is I'm guessing that you did a lot of the breaking up in your life.

[1386] Yeah, I did.

[1387] Not so?

[1388] No, I would say 60 -40.

[1389] Again, we're going to go back to 60.

[1390] I did 60 % of the breaking up and 40 % was done to me. Okay.

[1391] Because I think for me, just through muscle memory, And without actually being conscious of this, some part of me knew I was in this cycle of trying to status up and feel better about myself.

[1392] So in the back of my mind at all times, like, there will be an end of this and I'll probably bring that to a close.

[1393] And so to look at my daughters and to go, come over every day for the rest of your life.

[1394] And to actually know that that was real, that there will never be a moment where I'm regretting this decision or I have to get myself out of this relationship is the most unique feeling I'd ever had.

[1395] Did you feel that your dad felt that about you?

[1396] It's so hard to imagine because my dad was also 23.

[1397] I had one moment.

[1398] It's funny enough because the episode you're doing right now reminded me when my dad was dying, unrelated to that, I just was going to be back in Michigan taking him to chemo stuff.

[1399] And I said, I want to drive around and take a picture of every house I ever lived in because it was like 20 houses by the time I graduated.

[1400] and we get to the apartment we moved to when we left his house, a shitty little welfare apartment in Milford, and we're in the parking lot, IGA.

[1401] And he just randomly goes, oh, man, I tried to go through that light right there.

[1402] I dropped off the couch, and as I was driving the truck away from the apartment, I realized you're driving away from everything good in your life, and you're gone.

[1403] And he's like, I couldn't even get through that light.

[1404] I just sat on the side of the road and cried for like two hours.

[1405] and I was like, you cared?

[1406] I mean, literally, I thought you didn't fucking get, like, party time, got rid of these kids and this wife, now it's party time.

[1407] I didn't even know that.

[1408] So I can't imagine.

[1409] I have a story about him.

[1410] I'm trying to rethink, and I'm trying to be more gracious and loving.

[1411] And I'm trying to stop telling myself the story about him because I think he was probably much better dad than most people had or in some ways many people had.

[1412] So I don't know.

[1413] I don't know what he felt like.

[1414] But yeah, did your mom have that feeling about you?

[1415] My mom and I have our own thing that I've spent my entire life working through, and I'm in the best place with it, and so is she.

[1416] And there is true peace there.

[1417] My dad, right before he died as well, I was sitting in his hospital room, and I took care of him for sort of the last few years of his life.

[1418] And you were 29?

[1419] Yep.

[1420] Yeah.

[1421] Thank you.

[1422] Good research, exactly.

[1423] I was sitting there one day, and I, funny enough, had bare feet.

[1424] And he looked at my foot and he goes, you are made perfect.

[1425] And I was like, I didn't know you cared.

[1426] Yeah, right.

[1427] I didn't know you even noticed me. I didn't know that you knew anything about me. He left before I was born.

[1428] And if we hadn't been able to be accepting of who these men were forgiven, we would have never experienced those moments.

[1429] And that's why I encourage people to not let anger lead because you will miss out.

[1430] And my dad didn't have to die.

[1431] And I didn't have to stay haunted.

[1432] I didn't have to not have closure.

[1433] I didn't have to miss out on that moment.

[1434] And neither did you.

[1435] And I think it's such a gift for ourselves and for them to just accept that people are not always what you need them to be.

[1436] and they are who they are, and there's ways around it that you can find peace, forgiveness, and grace, and you might even have something that's incredibly healing and that you can keep with you.

[1437] Yeah.

[1438] So I encourage don't lead with anger, lead with forgiveness.

[1439] Yeah.

[1440] It's definitely worth pursuing.

[1441] It's very hard.

[1442] It seems like you've really done that, though.

[1443] Yeah, it's really impressive.

[1444] Now maybe I'll give some to myself.

[1445] Yes, please.

[1446] Because it's a shit show in here.

[1447] You know what's inspiring is listen to Jamie Fox on Stern.

[1448] I don't know if you've ever heard Jamie Fox on Stern.

[1449] I have a little bit, but not at length.

[1450] I listen to that and I'm like, God, why aren't I tell you that guy?

[1451] No resentments.

[1452] His dad wasn't around.

[1453] He got famous.

[1454] His dad wanted to be around.

[1455] He's like, that's all right.

[1456] Get in here.

[1457] Let's do this.

[1458] And I'm like, fuck, man, that's.

[1459] I want to punish everyone who wasn't perfect to me. I don't fucking, I'll get mine.

[1460] You'll get yours.

[1461] Do you really feel that way?

[1462] I had felt that way in the past.

[1463] I don't anymore, but I live most of my life, like...

[1464] Did you really let it go?

[1465] Did you really flip the switch?

[1466] Oh, God, no. Oh, whoa, whoa, that style?

[1467] Yeah.

[1468] I think so.

[1469] Yeah, yeah.

[1470] I think so.

[1471] That's okay.

[1472] I did not forgive myself or my mom for a long time and mostly myself.

[1473] The funny thing is that happens to kids, and I'd like all parents to know this, is that when you fuck over your kids, your kids usually feel really horrible about themselves.

[1474] They don't hate you.

[1475] They hate themselves.

[1476] Yeah.

[1477] And that was the saddest part of the world.

[1478] That's the worst part is the guilt I had that my mom and I could not have that societally perfect mother -daughter relationship crushed me throughout my life.

[1479] And then I finally let it go and was just like, look, this is what it is.

[1480] This is who she is.

[1481] This is who I am.

[1482] I'm actually talk about a boundary.

[1483] I guess I did know something about boundaries because I created one that I needed with her.

[1484] Yeah.

[1485] And she respected it.

[1486] And we could come together as not mother and child damaged, corroded with guilt and toxicity.

[1487] I was like, hey, you know what?

[1488] Fuck it.

[1489] Let's chill.

[1490] Guess what?

[1491] You're not perfect?

[1492] I'm not perfect.

[1493] Let's just fucking not live the rest of our lives like this.

[1494] I can't take it anymore.

[1495] I am so ready to let this go.

[1496] I have sat in this shit for so long.

[1497] I can't wait to get out of this.

[1498] And it was great.

[1499] And it's been great ever since.

[1500] Well, the one thing, I've said it on here before, and I apologize if you're hearing this for the 11 ,000th of the time.

[1501] Bring it.

[1502] The huge turning point with my dad and I, and I think, is what the colonel is that's kind of growing into me stopping talking about his shortcomings and more.

[1503] I think guy fucking hugged and kissed me all the time.

[1504] He was very affectionate.

[1505] He was a great example in so many ways.

[1506] he was very emotionally present and whatever he was great in so many ways the story changed for me which was i had lincoln and i was in the beautiful that first year where he just i would bring her everywhere and she's just my little appendage and the whole thing and i was like oh my god i've been telling myself my whole life that i was the victim and in fact so much more heartbreaking to miss being a parent than being parented the real victim is my fucking dad didn't get to do all this stuff with me I would have been perfect for that.

[1507] I liked motorcycles.

[1508] He liked that.

[1509] Like, we could have done everything together.

[1510] So I just was like, I feel so bad for him now that I've had this experience.

[1511] And he's the big victim.

[1512] Your mother's the big victim.

[1513] Your mom, think about the guilt you lived with just for getting separated.

[1514] Now imagine the guilt you'd be living with if, like, you let your kid go to Studio 54.

[1515] For lack of a better example.

[1516] But think about that.

[1517] Like, you have the big gift in the situation.

[1518] You don't have terrible regret how you were as a child to her.

[1519] By the way, I don't know.

[1520] what she feels about it and there is a burning desire slash i have a boundary and that would be crossing it right which is to actually like have that conversation with her because we keep things nice and surface sure sure and very very positive yeah good like almost spiritual yeah because i know that both of us feel that we're so glad we're not dead and we can actually talk to each other text sometimes on New Year's Eve I'll be by myself on my couch and I'll call her and we'll just laugh for two hours that we're available to each other but I actually am dying to know does she regret it?

[1521] A thousand percent I can answer that for her.

[1522] She has to.

[1523] She might not let herself feel it.

[1524] Well let me ask a follow -up question.

[1525] Is your mother Adolf Hitler?

[1526] Because if she's not, my hunch is she probably feels a lot of regret.

[1527] Do you want to know the funniest thing?

[1528] I don't want her to.

[1529] Well, right.

[1530] You don't need that.

[1531] But I wish I had been big enough in 2012 to say to him, hey, man, it all worked out.

[1532] I have the life I wanted and everything is gravy.

[1533] So you die knowing that you brought this boy into the world and everything's perfect.

[1534] Like, I wish I had had the benevolence to do that.

[1535] You weren't able to tell him that.

[1536] I didn't fully let him off the hook.

[1537] I was also, let me add, I was discovering throughout this process that he had been stealing from me. So it's like this mix of like, here we go.

[1538] old shit here he's fucking lying about all i think i don't want to out my mom right now but dude mine's dead so i can say whatever yeah exactly but basically you know i had been mailing him payments every month to handle all these expenses but then he was in a place where he couldn't actually write the checks anymore so i had to take that over and i was like oh your insurance is only a half of what you were saying your rent's only 70 % of what you're saying you have a pontoon boat i bought you a pontoon oh where that he's like you want to take it right in the pontoon boat i'm Where did you?

[1539] Oh, I guess I bought that pontoon, but yeah, let's go for a ride.

[1540] Yeah.

[1541] So I think I did as good as I can.

[1542] I don't have a ton of regrets.

[1543] I wish I could have obviously given them that gift at the end.

[1544] But I was there.

[1545] I was there for the whole fucking thing.

[1546] So whatever.

[1547] Our similar parallel lives are really interesting.

[1548] I think, as you talked about like with Prince Harry and Oprah, how they came from the opposite spectrums of life, you both commented so eloquently about.

[1549] The apex of privilege and the nadir of privilege.

[1550] Exactly.

[1551] And they're either going to roll reversal, as you so sweetly said, meat in the middle.

[1552] They're both pretty...

[1553] Gangster.

[1554] Yeah, they're both pretty top dog.

[1555] Something I keep saying on the show, it's so about feelings.

[1556] People can be born in different places, at different times, live very different lives.

[1557] But when they intersect on feelings, for me, that's that sweet spot that I want to live in.

[1558] explore with people.

[1559] And my God, the comedy of stuff you are saying, I'm just like, uh -huh.

[1560] Uh -huh, yeah.

[1561] Sure, been there.

[1562] Yeah, totally.

[1563] Even the cancer part, I was like, oh, yeah, that's really, yeah, spot on.

[1564] So now we have another thing in common, which is we both interview people.

[1565] Have you had a favorite guest?

[1566] How many episodes did you do the first season?

[1567] 170.

[1568] Oh, my, fuck.

[1569] Holy shit.

[1570] That's so many.

[1571] That's too many.

[1572] That's about a hundred too many.

[1573] Second time I've spilled this macho.

[1574] Oh, my God.

[1575] It's rare to spill something twice.

[1576] It is crazy.

[1577] 170 shows a year.

[1578] We have multiple guests in each show.

[1579] Wow.

[1580] Are you sometimes, like when I've thought about that format, I feel like it would be coyus interrupters all the time.

[1581] Like, I would feel like, oh, fuck, man, we're just getting somewhere, and now eight minutes is up.

[1582] Well, and I know that's a lot of, like, what the light bulb was for you with a podcast that you could go way, way, way deeper.

[1583] And how I do it is, I, I, actually tape the interviews separately.

[1584] Oh, that's so smart.

[1585] So that I can have at least pretty much 45 minutes with everybody.

[1586] Oh, that's such a good idea.

[1587] And then I'm heavily involved with the post team who I love and have told them they are like literally the gargoyles at the gate and they have the power to skew things or shape things or narrow down all the pearls.

[1588] They established the tone of your show.

[1589] Monica established the tone of our show.

[1590] She edits it.

[1591] So she like she decides what it is.

[1592] Editing is the shaping of storytelling.

[1593] So I work really closely with them.

[1594] I highlight the things I definitely don't want to lose.

[1595] What I think didn't strike me as interesting.

[1596] If anyone else does, get it in there and let me prove me wrong for sure.

[1597] But I really care about editing.

[1598] So I get not two hours but 45 minutes with everybody that's awesome and i do my homework at nauseam uh -huh and i think that's that howard stern like training and love of he just goes into a conversation so casual and disarming and fluid but you can just tell that he knows every single place he's going right right right right or how to get it back on track he's the walls of the maze you're walking down exactly he is the labyrinth and It lets you free in it.

[1599] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1600] And so I also just have always worked that way.

[1601] Like, I never shortchanged anything at work.

[1602] I was shocked.

[1603] I can give a personal anecdote about this.

[1604] My wife and you did a movie together in Alaska, and I came up a few times.

[1605] And you were fucking in your hotel room typing on a typewriter.

[1606] Oh, my God, yes.

[1607] Because the movie was set in the 80s.

[1608] And I literally said to Chris, and I'm like, if nothing, I was like, I don't know what this will yield for her.

[1609] but God bless her for carrying this much steel because at that point you were 40 years into it or 38 years into it the fact that you were still doing the work I was like this girl's got some backbone like some work ethic when I did a film called Grey Gardens I think I like officially fucking lost my mind I went right down into like this woman's insanity I wouldn't talk to anyone I wouldn't watch TV I wouldn't drive a car I wouldn't listen to radio I only read which she read I had that same avocado green IBM I'm selectric, and that thing is not light.

[1610] Right, right, right, right.

[1611] I'm talking like the 9 to 5, 50 fucking pounder.

[1612] Yeah, yeah.

[1613] I brought that to, and I would just write manifestos.

[1614] I was like Ted Kaczynski as Edie Beale in Grey Gardens.

[1615] And I think that's why, because I'm such an all -or -nothing person, that when I had my kids, I was like, I don't know how to do this job, not that way.

[1616] And I don't want to be on my typewriter living in someone else's shoes.

[1617] is my kids need me, and I don't know how to do this any other way.

[1618] I've never done it any other way.

[1619] So shit, I have to stop.

[1620] And I did for many years.

[1621] And then I realized that I needed to work to support myself and that it was healthier for me to still have outlets and not be psycho -staring at my kids because I was not going to be healthy.

[1622] Yeah, they can't be your whole world.

[1623] It's not good for them.

[1624] I needed to find the balance, and I did.

[1625] Yeah, yeah.

[1626] But wow, you just made me, like, actually realize I'm like, yeah, that's exactly what I could no longer do when I had kids.

[1627] It was sitting in my hotel room and ride on my IBM Selectic all day because watching TV would be anachronistic.

[1628] Yes, I got to be fully honest.

[1629] When I heard it, too, there was a part of me that was like, I so relate to this.

[1630] Like, full honesty.

[1631] I was like, it feels a little addicty.

[1632] And again, I'm Captain Addict.

[1633] I am an addict.

[1634] Yeah.

[1635] So I'm like, I guess.

[1636] it, man. I would be like, I'm modeling out this experience and I'm going to go up there and I'm not going to talk to anyone.

[1637] I'm going to do this.

[1638] I'm going to do that.

[1639] What I'm really doing is I'm creating this whole fantasy.

[1640] And then in the fantasy, I'm going to feel a certain way.

[1641] Like I assign an emotion I'll be experiencing during that.

[1642] And I've done that a million times.

[1643] I don't think I've ever got the emotion attached to it that I assigned to it in my fantasy.

[1644] When I heard that, I was like, it's awesome and it's a lot of hard work.

[1645] And also, I can relate to the desire to do something like that, like radical and all -in.

[1646] I didn't accept any less for myself.

[1647] Like it was full commitment or you're not rising to the occasion and you're going to let people down, including yourself.

[1648] But my addict stuff presents itself in a different way.

[1649] That was always a veil to life.

[1650] I was invincible.

[1651] I was the life of the party.

[1652] I was always having the most fun.

[1653] I wished anyone could have as much fun as I was.

[1654] was having.

[1655] And then also, I did not realize it, but subconsciously, I was in complete escape avoidance.

[1656] And if I had this hazy veil through my life, it was as simple as I had a feeling when I partied of invincible, painless joy.

[1657] And that was what I chased.

[1658] And that was why I was an addict.

[1659] Yeah.

[1660] Do you think it's possible that your true anchor for the last 46 years has been your profession?

[1661] Yes.

[1662] And that when you were hating yourself and self -flagellating, I'm a piece of shit and I don't deserve anything, if you have not worked your ass off at that other thing, then you'd really have nothing to prop yourself up with.

[1663] But I want to be really granular about this.

[1664] I don't mean if you don't have fame or you don't have success.

[1665] No. I'm saying, I can allow myself all this chaos as long as I do this thing perfectly.

[1666] And if that thing falls apart, well, now I'll have to admit the whole goddamn show is destroyed.

[1667] It would completely put me in a serious state of delusion because I would say, but I'm fine at work.

[1668] Right, right, right, right.

[1669] So I can handle all the burning the candle at both ends.

[1670] That's kind of what I mean.

[1671] Because I always show up.

[1672] And I think work was not my self -worth, but it was the accountability.

[1673] that a parent should have instilled in me to develop that wasn't there, but work did.

[1674] Work was like, you got to be on bed, you got to learn the lines.

[1675] The work gave you the boundaries.

[1676] The work was the parent.

[1677] The discipline.

[1678] Gave me the discipline and the total accountability.

[1679] And I did not fuck that up.

[1680] And to this day, I really try not to.

[1681] I can count on my hand the amount of times I fucked up at work.

[1682] And it's one hand.

[1683] Yeah.

[1684] And that is 46 years.

[1685] 46 years starting in diapers.

[1686] Wow.

[1687] And all of them are mistakes I made by maybe partying too hard or getting sick or just being like physically not able to get there.

[1688] But for the most part, I was like, nothing stops me from working my best hardest and showing up.

[1689] I don't let people down.

[1690] Yeah.

[1691] My addict stuff, it's interesting that you say that, that you saw it like with me clickety clacking away, locked up in a room.

[1692] I was probably also, like, drinking a lot in that room at that very same time.

[1693] And then getting even more into the Allen Ginsberg of my fucking typewriter.

[1694] And I was a...

[1695] We're romantic.

[1696] You know what?

[1697] Alcohol was my pacifier.

[1698] Yeah, yeah.

[1699] Like, since day one.

[1700] It was like, oh, I feel so cozy and fun and invincible and just joy.

[1701] And then what I didn't realize was the chemical warfare.

[1702] that I was putting my body through scientifically and why the highs were so high and the lows were so lows.

[1703] The next day I was like the world is ending and I didn't understand that it was because I drank the night before.

[1704] Right.

[1705] And you slept like shit and all these things that add up to feeling like shit?

[1706] I'm so glad that I'm in a clear state in my life and that I'm ready to be so present and just not have that.

[1707] desire.

[1708] It's like it finally, Elvis has left the building.

[1709] Oh, that's lovely.

[1710] And it's so quiet and insecurity is loud.

[1711] Confidence is quiet.

[1712] Nan, she taught me that saying it's one of my favorites ever.

[1713] And listen, you presented it in a chicken or an egg situation where having kids allowed you to set boundaries in how you'll work, but it might be the reverse.

[1714] It might be that having kids gave you the esteem you needed to not need it at work.

[1715] I'd be unpacking that suitcase all night tonight hearing you say that.

[1716] Yeah, like, I don't know which one came first.

[1717] Who knows what came first?

[1718] All I know for sure that I can clearly identify was my kids were the first thing in my life that made my life worth living.

[1719] Yeah, it gave it value.

[1720] Yeah.

[1721] And living healthy, it wasn't when I got divorced.

[1722] I was very broken.

[1723] and I don't think I was healthy at all.

[1724] I was drinking too much.

[1725] I was eating too much.

[1726] Yeah.

[1727] I was self -soothing.

[1728] I was coping.

[1729] It wasn't good.

[1730] And I was even more mad at myself.

[1731] Like, I was just like, oh, my God.

[1732] Self -fulfilling prophecy.

[1733] You are broken.

[1734] You're a loser.

[1735] You're a failure.

[1736] You broke your promise and you're just, you're shit.

[1737] You are shit.

[1738] I know that zone well.

[1739] But also, I mean, part of your forgiveness work has to be that you just said alcohol was your pacifier.

[1740] like literally was your five and six and you're in seven it was it was your blankie i'm just gonna say this in one list just because it's really funny to your point in et at six guest hosts of saturday night live at seven at studio 54 at eight oh my god in rehab at 13 emancipated at 14 writing a fucking autobiography at 16 the whole thing so accelerating when you're I see it in writing.

[1741] It's like, what are you talking about this?

[1742] By the time this person was 16, they're writing their autobiography.

[1743] Called Little Girl Law.

[1744] And guess what?

[1745] And then you have been a bad genetics.

[1746] Shirley Temple's book would have been called something else.

[1747] You didn't have a choice.

[1748] If that was what you were given at that age, like, of course you're going to go back to that as a safety net.

[1749] Yeah.

[1750] So you have to forgive.

[1751] I mean, you have to.

[1752] You didn't even choose it.

[1753] I am finally understanding that.

[1754] But I think the only way I could truly begin to forgive myself was here's my theory about life that I've learned in the last few years through getting through the fire and coming out the ashes of a divorce and a broken heart and just the whole life I've lived.

[1755] I believe so much in the Jiminy Cricket that lives on your shoulder, that is your conscience.

[1756] And it tells you and it screams in your ear what you're doing wrong and you know it.

[1757] And what I would do is I would ball gag that motherfucker and stuff him in a closet and he would scream muffled.

[1758] but he never shut up and every single day he'd make his way out and back on my shoulder and go these are the things that you do that are wrong these are the things you do that keep you broken these are the things that if you don't fix you will die these are the things that your friends are scared shitless about that you do these are the things you want to pretend you don't do, but you are doing them.

[1759] And you know it.

[1760] And I was like, back in the closet, bitch for the day.

[1761] Back in the fucking closet.

[1762] I don't want to hear it right now.

[1763] And I will drink you away.

[1764] I will act you away.

[1765] I will work you away.

[1766] I will travel and hang out with friends.

[1767] I will write.

[1768] I will do anything.

[1769] I will drown you out.

[1770] But there he was again, every single day.

[1771] You're so right.

[1772] The booze puts Jiminy Cricket.

[1773] You can't hear him.

[1774] All right.

[1775] I'm going to land this plane.

[1776] Your show comes out September 14th.

[1777] Yes, it does.

[1778] And you're going to be doing some coming home week in Hollywood.

[1779] And then you're going to go back to New York, which is now your home.

[1780] Yes.

[1781] And we're all looking forward to it.

[1782] So please tune in to see that.

[1783] What channel is it on?

[1784] It's syndicated.

[1785] So it's everywhere.

[1786] So you go on the website, Drew Barberyshow .com.

[1787] You go to the show finder.

[1788] You type in your zip code and you find out what station.

[1789] time it's on in your area and I love your show and I thank you for letting me come on because I called you guys to ask if I could come because I love this show.

[1790] I can't believe I get to be a part of it.

[1791] It's a total legacy.

[1792] This is not Ask Kissy.

[1793] You're doing something different.

[1794] These are the conversations that need to be had raw, real, honest, funny.

[1795] And by the way, dude, I wish I could have come in here and taken a shit on the table and told you how much I loved when you said that to Prince Harry I fucking loved it and that yes it's legal and I'm like see I need that I need salt and sugar Oh good good good I'll keep at it Tom Green used to say Ride it until it's funny He was the master of it Yeah just keep going Thanks for having me you guys Thank you for letting me in this room It's nice to see it for real.

[1796] We love having you.

[1797] Everyone watch the Drew Barrymore show, September 14th, and much love to you.

[1798] Much love to you, too.

[1799] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate, Monica Padman.

[1800] Tell us that you have something on your foot, ankles.

[1801] Yeah, so a mid -workout.

[1802] Okay.

[1803] Okay, full disclosure, full transparency.

[1804] Oh, you are?

[1805] Yeah, I was toes down.

[1806] below us in the hot mold gymnasium, black mold paradise.

[1807] I don't like that you're working out in black mold.

[1808] And you're wondering why you have Honestria, and I think maybe it might have to do with the black mold.

[1809] That's definitely one of the variables that could be looked at.

[1810] But if you've followed my posts at all on Instagram about, I'm kind of like in competition with The Rock.

[1811] Not today.

[1812] What?

[1813] This is weeks ago.

[1814] I didn't see that.

[1815] So the Rock has an incredible home gym, and he calls it Iron Paradise.

[1816] And he does most of his insights.

[1817] Instagram stories and stuff from Iron Paradise.

[1818] Sure.

[1819] And he's always covered in sweat, and he looks incredible.

[1820] So when I first moved my gym down into this basement, you know, it looks so pathetic.

[1821] It's such a shitty gym.

[1822] So I posted a picture of it, and I said, hey, Rock, you're not the only one with Iron Paradise money, dollar signs.

[1823] Okay.

[1824] Welcome to Black Mold Paradise.

[1825] So I'm trying to have a competing gym against the Rock.

[1826] Anyways, I was down in Black Mold Paradise.

[1827] I see.

[1828] And I looked at my watch at 12.

[1829] We're supposed to be doing this at 12.

[1830] So I paused everything.

[1831] Came on up.

[1832] And then came on up.

[1833] So what you saw or what you are seeing still real time is that I wear knee braces.

[1834] Yeah.

[1835] And I didn't want to sit through this whole thing and get sweaty knees.

[1836] So what I did is I folded them down.

[1837] Now they look like leggings or leg warmers from the 80s.

[1838] Yeah, they do.

[1839] They look like cute leg warmers or like a high sock.

[1840] Oh, high sock.

[1841] But baggy.

[1842] For baggy, which is a cool look.

[1843] It's come up on here already, but I just want you to know, I can't imagine you would guess what percentage of my day I'm ruminating about the new style.

[1844] But it is, I think it's more than you would guess.

[1845] I think like 9 % of my day, I'm ruining this style change.

[1846] Okay, and what specifically?

[1847] Pleaded pants?

[1848] Not for men.

[1849] Well, we were wearing them before.

[1850] What do you mean?

[1851] Zee Kavaricis were pleaded.

[1852] Oh, they.

[1853] Oh, of course they were.

[1854] Good luck spelling Z. Cavarici.

[1855] You did it?

[1856] You're a phenom.

[1857] You really are.

[1858] Oh.

[1859] Because isn't this style movement that's upon us that's on the horizon?

[1860] It's 90s, right?

[1861] Is that the jam?

[1862] I guess.

[1863] I mean, I haven't thought much.

[1864] I haven't thought too much about that.

[1865] I mean.

[1866] That's crazy you haven't because you're very stylish.

[1867] And you're already adopting this style.

[1868] Like, At the live show, you were wearing shorts that were like this, they could have been on Shaquille O 'Neal.

[1869] They look cute as hell, but you had enormous shorts on.

[1870] Yeah.

[1871] They were so cute.

[1872] And with pleads and corduroys and ripples and corrugations.

[1873] Uh -huh.

[1874] And so since you bought that outfit, did you not think where, what's time frame is this style from?

[1875] Or do you think, oh, this is a brand new style?

[1876] I just don't think about that.

[1877] I just think like, oh, this is really cute.

[1878] I like how it looks.

[1879] Yeah.

[1880] Okay, great.

[1881] Yeah.

[1882] You're not interested in the epistemology of it.

[1883] No. I don't want to get into history.

[1884] No. Anywho, it's 90s, I think.

[1885] I think that's what the new movement is.

[1886] Okay.

[1887] Did you find 90s Z. Cavaricis?

[1888] Oh, like Slater is wearing them here.

[1889] Fuck yeah.

[1890] Yeah.

[1891] He looks cool.

[1892] Oh, he's so cool Slater.

[1893] Yeah.

[1894] What was his name?

[1895] A .C. Slater.

[1896] Well, Mario Lopez.

[1897] Yeah.

[1898] Yeah.

[1899] Who, if you travel, for anyone that travels.

[1900] and stays at hotels and sometimes takes a, well, fuck, you know what, you don't even have to take a gander at the movies on demand because right when you turn a TV on, the preset is...

[1901] Mario Lopez.

[1902] Mario Lopez, A .C. Slater.

[1903] That's right.

[1904] And he'll tell you about what's currently in theaters and available in your room.

[1905] Yeah.

[1906] So I see him a ton.

[1907] Oh, he's out there.

[1908] Yeah.

[1909] Okay, so you're worried.

[1910] I'm really worried, man. I just can't see myself finding my way back into these C. Then don't.

[1911] Why don't you just do what you like?

[1912] Because I'm going to look like a dad in acid -washed jeans in 2007.

[1913] You know, I don't want to look like that.

[1914] You have your own style.

[1915] Okay, so thank you for saying that because there's a defense in my head that I've been mounting, which is like, well, there are some styles for men that transcend all the time periods.

[1916] Like, if your only look in life was James Dean, white T -shirt, Levi's, you're done.

[1917] You're fine.

[1918] Yeah.

[1919] Like, I can't, I can't think of a time I've lived through where that look wasn't fine.

[1920] It's always very nice, very classic.

[1921] That's in my wheelhouse of style, I think.

[1922] So I'm like, okay, great.

[1923] So I kind of, I'm going to double down on that.

[1924] Maybe my slacks are going to have to get a little looser.

[1925] That's fine.

[1926] I liked how they looked on James Dean.

[1927] I can go a little bag here.

[1928] Okay, okay.

[1929] I'm going to live with that.

[1930] And then I'm, I'm going to add in some corduroy pants.

[1931] Okay.

[1932] But kind of a thicker, but plain front side pocket, you know, not jean style.

[1933] Like proper slacks Okay But corduroy slacks, yeah Almost tweety Like someone to wear a tweed jacket And then like an Irish cap with it Wow, okay I don't want all that accoutrema I'm just saying I'm trying to cue you onto these corduroys I'm imagining Okay So then I'm like Okay well that's a way for me to dip Into like baggier and 90s And still I still feel timeless Okay I think you're thinking far too much about this I really do But you think about style a lot You're always scanning different fun things.

[1934] Oh, all I do is look at clothes.

[1935] But I'm not devising like a thing.

[1936] I'm not like, this is my look.

[1937] You're just following your passion on these websites.

[1938] I've always been more like, what's the overall message?

[1939] Yeah, see, I've never, I'm never thinking that.

[1940] Rob, are you conscious of what the overall looks saying?

[1941] No, I have no idea what you're talking about with these pants and style.

[1942] Okay, so it's presumable that we've lost all male listeners.

[1943] this point if the guy in the room couldn't pay attention i mean i get the aces slater pants but i didn't know that was a thing now okay i don't think it is i haven't seen but you but you rob in my opinion you are sending a very clear signal to the community hey i like music you have a that's your aesthetic would we agree i guess yeah so that's what i mean to rob rob knows what message he's trying to send i'm like i'm into indie rock he's not doing it on purpose he just is into indie music.

[1944] So that's what he's drawn to.

[1945] It's not like he's making big declarate.

[1946] Like he's deciding, okay, I want to put out to the world.

[1947] Let's ask Rob, he's here.

[1948] See, I think you get interested in the music first.

[1949] That's first.

[1950] You like music.

[1951] And then you're like, oh, yeah, I like this music.

[1952] And I like the people I see when I go see these shows.

[1953] I'm like them.

[1954] And now I start taking little style cues from them.

[1955] I don't think it's as conscious as yours is, but I could see that being how this all happened how it happened yeah which is probably what monica was saying too she just sees things that she likes and it's based on other things she likes yes but i do think the difference between us three is that monica just has a dedication to style so like her her indie rock thing is i'm into style so it takes care of itself in a weird way yeah i guess that's true like our thing is like we're trying to send a message but now we've got to attach us a style to this it's abstract you guys are too in your head about life cut out gay i don't know if that would people know i'm sure put that back in obviously yeah i think of it as post like saying been there done there now that's what the joke is gay yeah for me to say because because rob and i are talking about style which in the 90s of two dudes we're talking about style you'd be like they're gay so since we're so far beyond that now i think it's a joke for you You know what I'm saying?

[1956] Because it's like 15 years ago.

[1957] Yeah, you're mocking the pejorative.

[1958] I'm mocking the pejorative.

[1959] I get that.

[1960] But the problem is there are enough people in this country.

[1961] In the 80s still that are listening.

[1962] Who do still consider it a pejorative.

[1963] Speaking of, that was very interesting.

[1964] So when I was in North Carolina, so here, when we're talking and having all these conversations, and it's lovely, we kind of are like not, you know, I think we try to give some groups like the benefit of the doubt and we're like, they're not racist because of this or this.

[1965] And, like, when I was in the South recently, it is there.

[1966] Racism.

[1967] Yeah.

[1968] And, like, I know it's not people who are trying to be racist.

[1969] But it's all these, like, small things that exist that make me think, like, yeah.

[1970] Well, you know, it is relevant to say there's that we're using one word that describes a lot of stuff.

[1971] So someone who'd want to join the KKK, racist.

[1972] someone who is a neo -Nazi, racist.

[1973] Yes, someone who's still talking about black folks or any group as other and distinct and unified in thought and practice, not great and part of racism, but also not people who have an active disdain or dislike of anybody wouldn't join the KKK, you know what I'm saying?

[1974] There's just such a huge spectrum of that.

[1975] There is, but it's based in racist ideas.

[1976] Sure.

[1977] And so to say that it's not racist, I think is also a problem because it is.

[1978] Yeah, I guess I wish there was just a distinction for people definitely acting out what they inherited versus people who actively hate or dislike groups.

[1979] Yeah.

[1980] Because, like, I want them to have a name that I know what you mean.

[1981] Like, you know, like, oh, we met this racist at the convenience store.

[1982] So my first thought is like, you met someone in the clan or active.

[1983] hates some group and was vocal.

[1984] But why do you need the differentiation, I guess?

[1985] Like, I guess the language.

[1986] Because one person's hateful and another person's uneducated or ignorant.

[1987] Yeah.

[1988] Or feels in some way inherently because it is passed down superior.

[1989] And they don't know that.

[1990] The other thing, I know these people and I love these people.

[1991] So it's complicated when I'm in these conversations.

[1992] And she would not say she's racist.

[1993] she loves me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1994] But it still is.

[1995] Right, but don't you think there should be another word for what she did versus someone that's like, I fucking hate Chinese motherfucker?

[1996] No, I actually don't because I think it then gives that person an excuse.

[1997] It's like, well, yeah, I make mistakes, but I'm not racist.

[1998] It's like, no, maybe you should start thinking of it as really bad because it is.

[1999] Uh -huh.

[2000] Okay, yeah, maybe I'm wrong.

[2001] Like, I don't want people.

[2002] to be let off the hook for doing things that should be changed.

[2003] I think there's racist behavior and it spans the gambit of personality and hatred and all of that.

[2004] Yeah.

[2005] And I do think those things are real and important to change.

[2006] And if we act like, well, that's not that big of a deal because they're not full of hate, then those things continue.

[2007] I can tell you my adversion to it because I'm really asking myself, like, yeah, A, why are you even defending that?

[2008] Why am I taking time to defend this other thing?

[2009] I'm nervous it makes, it's not a productive route to educating the person who is unknowingly doing a lot of things that are not cool.

[2010] Versus starting with you're a racist or what you just did was racist, I'm nervous that any person's natural reaction to being told they were racist is going to be defensed.

[2011] So I'm just nervous about the productivity of it.

[2012] That's all.

[2013] Yeah, I get that.

[2014] When I'm in conversations like this, there, I don't correct.

[2015] I'm like, you know what?

[2016] I don't have the energy.

[2017] I'm not calling them racist.

[2018] But I know it is.

[2019] So that's fine, I guess.

[2020] Like, I'm not trying to change them.

[2021] Yeah.

[2022] Or change their mind necessarily in that moment.

[2023] I can't do in my head, like, well, they're not hateful.

[2024] They just, I mean, and I do.

[2025] Of course, I already know that.

[2026] I know they're not hateful.

[2027] But I also know, God, that is a problem still.

[2028] Yeah.

[2029] And I don't think it's in any way your responsibility, nor should you have to even worry about it, think about it.

[2030] But if you could have gone in and said, hey, you know, when you say that about that other group, my immediate fear is, well, someone's saying that about Indians.

[2031] They're saying that about my parents.

[2032] Right.

[2033] And that breaks my heart.

[2034] Again, it's not your job, but it's just like, I think that approach would work for that person.

[2035] But I have to then deal with that person's feelings in the moment.

[2036] And do I want to do that?

[2037] No, I wouldn't.

[2038] Not really.

[2039] I want to just drink my wine and keep on walking.

[2040] It requires so much energy.

[2041] And you have to decide in the moment whether you want to take that on or not.

[2042] And I'm saying it too, as someone with a hero complex.

[2043] So I would look forward to that conversation.

[2044] you know me yes and no not if you've been feeling it and doing it your whole life it's exhausting and you you do pick your battles you just start realizing like is this the moment that i want to do this is this the person i want to do this with and let's be honest you know this is why it's so hard to overcome because you're a very assertive person exactly so now just imagine the person to the left of you on the spectrum of being you know confrontationally adverse yeah exactly that's why i feel guilt because I'm like if anyone can do it, it's probably me. Like I have the, I think, ability to do it.

[2045] But I sometimes just can't do it.

[2046] I think you're right.

[2047] I think a conversation like that could totally work.

[2048] I would, of course, I'm never, I'm never, ever, ever going to be in a position where I tell someone to their face, you're racist.

[2049] You're a fucking racist.

[2050] That's not how I operate.

[2051] I would never do that.

[2052] So I'm just saying, I'm just zooming out because in my head, I'm like, oh, you know, maybe I'm wrong.

[2053] Maybe that area is not what I remember it to be.

[2054] Yeah, yeah.

[2055] But, and by the way, I am not saying everyone.

[2056] This, I am not painting with a broad brush.

[2057] I just, I saw it more in those couple days than I, then I am used to.

[2058] Can you, can you make it relative to when you were there 10 years ago?

[2059] Has it improved or not?

[2060] Because, you know, part of me is optimistic that just in general culture is moving from both coast inward.

[2061] I think so, you know.

[2062] I think also it is generational.

[2063] Mm -hmm.

[2064] Yeah.

[2065] I think that's a big factor.

[2066] To watch how my grandparents, how they would make an effort to be, I guess, progressive.

[2067] And the words they would use, you know, are just terrible at this.

[2068] this point.

[2069] But they were really made a concerted effort.

[2070] Right.

[2071] So they stepped like eight feet forward or whatever.

[2072] And then luckily my mom stepped eight feet forward and then I hopefully have as well.

[2073] But I just in my own mind, I have three different generations of people the way they talked about other people.

[2074] And it's just evolved a lot.

[2075] Thank God.

[2076] Oh yeah.

[2077] Yeah.

[2078] And you know, I'm there and I'm like hearing some of this stuff happen around me and seeing it.

[2079] And I love these people.

[2080] Yeah.

[2081] Yeah.

[2082] Yeah.

[2083] And I And I know that they love me, too.

[2084] I can hold both things true.

[2085] Yeah.

[2086] Oh, wow.

[2087] We really, really rolled up our sleeves on that one.

[2088] We did.

[2089] I'm not wearing sleeves naturally.

[2090] Part of your style.

[2091] Well, that's part of your style.

[2092] That's true as well.

[2093] Yeah, you don't.

[2094] You can't regret your sleeve choice if there are no sleeves to regret.

[2095] That's really true.

[2096] You don't own very many.

[2097] Well, I do own, but they're all just in line to have the sleeves cut off.

[2098] You know, I don't buy any pre -cut sleeveless.

[2099] All your, like, muscle teas you make.

[2100] Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[2101] That's your style.

[2102] Yeah, it's my son.

[2103] I'm sticking with it.

[2104] I'm going to be in the casket and a sleeveless tuxedo.

[2105] Oh, my God.

[2106] Wouldn't that be spectacular?

[2107] That's amazing.

[2108] Everyone gets one last laugh.

[2109] The only thing I'm already worried about is, like, I'm getting, my arms are going to look so small because I'll be dead and there will be any blood flowing to them.

[2110] Maybe I'll also make a note to the taxidermist.

[2111] What are they called?

[2112] Mortician.

[2113] Yeah, mortician.

[2114] To really fucking pump me up with the formaldehyde.

[2115] Like, if I'm supposed to have a gallon, put two gallons in me. And it's fine if my face is just a big jug.

[2116] Yeah, my face would be like a watermelon with so much fluid.

[2117] But my biceps will be enormous.

[2118] I don't want to see that.

[2119] People are going to have the best laugh, Monica.

[2120] One good laugh.

[2121] Send them out of the parlor.

[2122] Oh, boy.

[2123] I might also.

[2124] hire someone to I would love everyone in their life once in their life to experience what Aaron and I experienced at that funeral where when we walked in there was a man sitting up in his casket you can't imagine what it's like to see that in real life it almost is like a horror movie yeah and hysterical but propped up right and has a totally normal look on his face no you know they weight the body down right so it was getting underweighted yeah And it wasn't, he was not 90 degrees, but he was like 35 degrees.

[2125] So he was like, it was almost as if he was looking out of his casket to the whole left.

[2126] So the first thing, it's like incredible is just that.

[2127] Yes.

[2128] And then when that subsides, you actually take in the fact that a lot of people are standing there mourning.

[2129] Yeah.

[2130] And that becomes the second wave of what's incredible possible.

[2131] Yes, everyone's acting like he's not sitting up.

[2132] and or peeking out of the side of the casket.

[2133] Well, they might just be too overwhelmed with grief.

[2134] To not even acknowledge that granddad is fucking doing an ab workout.

[2135] Who's your grandpa?

[2136] No, no. We were on our way to a friend's funeral.

[2137] Oh, so you didn't have any personal connection.

[2138] Okay, well, then that's why you could laugh.

[2139] Right.

[2140] So, this is, hear me out.

[2141] So because it's like really a seminal moment of my whole life, at my funeral, I almost said wedding, at my funeral, it'll be in a, place with multiple rooms in the parlor and i will hire somebody to sit 30 percent or act acting dead out of the casket oh but not you so that when people walk in they'll have the same experience we had okay that's nice another dead person another dead person now they'll just be an actor playing dead oh oh and they'll have a little rod and back so that abs don't get to you know it'll all get worked out it's going to be in hollywood movie magic i'll bring in a team of people maybe even we bring in like someone to make a model of a dead person at that angle.

[2142] Everyone will have that and they'll have a good chuckle and, oh man, good.

[2143] I was, I thought it was going to be a sad day.

[2144] That's nice.

[2145] Then they'll go and they'll see me, humongous biceps, big head, sleeveless tucks.

[2146] And they'll go, holy smokes, what a funeral.

[2147] Yeah, I hope I'm dead by then.

[2148] I'll play in your funeral.

[2149] Will you let me art direct your funeral?

[2150] Sure.

[2151] Like, wouldn't your wish be to give everyone one last laugh?

[2152] Yeah.

[2153] But I need to run it by me now because I don't, sometimes we have different tastes.

[2154] Or styles of comedy.

[2155] Yeah.

[2156] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2157] Oh, my God, I know what it is.

[2158] You're going to turn the corner into the parlor and you're going to see three caskets standing on their head and toes.

[2159] So vertical.

[2160] Okay, yeah.

[2161] And they're in the shape of a pyramid.

[2162] The middle one is taller.

[2163] Oh.

[2164] And then you're on top.

[2165] in your cheerleading outfit at the top of the pyramid, but you're like a granny.

[2166] But how will I be sitting up on top of a pointy casket?

[2167] Well, it's a little platform on the top casket, so you're completing the pyramid that the caskets have started.

[2168] So you're in whatever cheer pose you like to be in at the top of the pyramid.

[2169] Okay, okay.

[2170] Don't they make a pyramid in your sport?

[2171] Yeah, but what, yeah, yeah.

[2172] And then what happens?

[2173] They throw you up and then you do a flip, and then you land on someone's shoulders, and you're just standing there.

[2174] It's not as impressive as if I'm just standing on a casket and then there are two pieces of wood next to me. It's impressive because the people are holding people.

[2175] Fuck it.

[2176] We've got an actor for my funeral.

[2177] We'll get a team of state champ cheerleaders.

[2178] That would be great.

[2179] And then you'll have a belt on.

[2180] You'll be wearing a harness.

[2181] And you'll have a cable behind you.

[2182] That'll keep me upright.

[2183] Yes, but the actors will have their hands stretched up high in the air.

[2184] And you'll just as granny in your old cheerleading outfit.

[2185] will be suspended like a foot and a half above.

[2186] But I'll probably be doing a toe touch so my crotch will be out.

[2187] Oh, wow, wow, wow, wow.

[2188] So one last laugh, one last PQ, send everyone out the door.

[2189] What a great funeral.

[2190] Oh, my God.

[2191] Should we open up an armchair expert funeral plans?

[2192] Funeral services.

[2193] And taxidermy, generalized taxidermy.

[2194] Wow.

[2195] Okay, I got to get into some facts now.

[2196] Okay, this is actually a question.

[2197] She said that Stern used to fuck with her publicly.

[2198] And I didn't know if you knew what that, because you acted like you knew that.

[2199] Well, don't help me for acting like I knew.

[2200] No, yeah.

[2201] You know everything about Stern.

[2202] Yeah, yeah.

[2203] I think he just made fun of her in the past.

[2204] Oh.

[2205] As he made fun of everyone, he used to make fun of Rosie O 'Brien.

[2206] Oh, I see.

[2207] He used to make fun of Allen for years, then they became friends.

[2208] Yeah, most of his current relationship started in antagonistic.

[2209] Okay, so he was just bullying.

[2210] Bullying her.

[2211] Okay.

[2212] Okay.

[2213] Are there 2 .2 million podcasts?

[2214] There's more now.

[2215] This says there are currently over 2 million podcasts.

[2216] That's not all that specific.

[2217] And more than 48 million podcast episodes.

[2218] Nearly 6 and 10 U .S. consumers above the age of 12 have listened to a podcast.

[2219] This is as of July of this year.

[2220] Well, wow.

[2221] Yeah.

[2222] I thought you were going to say six of ten people have a podcast.

[2223] Oh, my God.

[2224] Pretty soon.

[2225] Probably pretty soon.

[2226] I think it's great.

[2227] Everyone wants to make fun of it.

[2228] I think it's so fucking great that people have an outlet to express themselves that that's where we're at.

[2229] That we live in a world of technology where everyone has their own radio station.

[2230] I agree.

[2231] How fucking cool is that?

[2232] It's so cool.

[2233] Okay, Socialite versus Debutante.

[2234] Oh, yes.

[2235] Debutant is very southern.

[2236] It's a southern thing.

[2237] A debutante or Deb is a young woman of aristocratic or upper -class family background who has reached maturity and as a new adult comes out into society at a formal debut or possibly debutante ball.

[2238] Okay.

[2239] And a sociolite is just someone that's on the social scene.

[2240] Exactly.

[2241] So a debutante could be a sociolite and a socialite could be a debacle.

[2242] Sure.

[2243] But they are not the same.

[2244] But they're not even not.

[2245] They're not even the same thing.

[2246] A socialite is a person usually from a wealthy or aristocratic person.

[2247] background, who plays a prominent role and is very frequently involved in high society.

[2248] A socialite generally spends a significant amount of time attending various fashionable social gatherings.

[2249] Debutante balls.

[2250] Often to the detriment of traditional employment.

[2251] Okay.

[2252] Okay.

[2253] They took a stance.

[2254] Well, aristocrats aren't supposed to work.

[2255] They think it's vile.

[2256] Oh, that's true.

[2257] Jack Nicholson's middle name.

[2258] Well, she was, like, saying his name funny, and she said Mulligan.

[2259] She did?

[2260] Yeah.

[2261] Oh, I didn't hear that.

[2262] But his name, birth name, is John Joseph Nicholson.

[2263] John Joseph Nicholson.

[2264] So obviously the John becomes Jack.

[2265] Yeah, I guess.

[2266] Which makes no sense.

[2267] I hate it.

[2268] I know.

[2269] I don't like that one, one bit, Monica.

[2270] I'm sorry.

[2271] Let me type in nicknames that don't make sense.

[2272] Oh, geez, here we go.

[2273] Minature mouths.

[2274] Okay, no, this knew exactly what I was talking about.

[2275] Okay.

[2276] 12 weird short forms of popular names.

[2277] Dick equaling Richard.

[2278] Sure.

[2279] What?

[2280] Yeah, why.

[2281] Bill to William.

[2282] Uh -huh.

[2283] Uh -huh.

[2284] Billiam.

[2285] Oh, this one's crazy.

[2286] Nancy.

[2287] So, Anne is the real name.

[2288] A -N -N -E or A -N -N?

[2289] A -N.

[2290] Who cares?

[2291] Yeah.

[2292] That's choice.

[2293] A -N -N -N -Ruette.

[2294] To Nancy.

[2295] Anne to Nancy?

[2296] I guess because Anne is in.

[2297] Nancy.

[2298] No, that's terrible.

[2299] Terrible.

[2300] I would more believe that Anne was a nickname of Nancy.

[2301] Right, but no. No. Okay.

[2302] For Edward, Ted.

[2303] Nope.

[2304] That's Theodore.

[2305] Now, I reject that one.

[2306] Go ahead.

[2307] And Ned also.

[2308] For Edward?

[2309] Yeah, remember Ned Stark?

[2310] It was Edward Stark.

[2311] Oh, it was.

[2312] Oh, my goodness.

[2313] I have a friend named Ned, and I wonder if his root name is Edward.

[2314] Probably.

[2315] Helen Nellie.

[2316] What?

[2317] That's fake.

[2318] Oh, oh my God.

[2319] This one says for Margaret, Daisy.

[2320] No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, they've observed some correlation, but not some causality.

[2321] What is even the correlation between Daisy and Margaret?

[2322] None, but they met a bunch of people that people called them both of those names, and they concluded.

[2323] Oh, you think this is a mistake?

[2324] I think it's a total, yeah.

[2325] No, I don't think so.

[2326] Okay, also for Margaret Peggy.

[2327] I have heard that one, that is weird.

[2328] No. And Maggie.

[2329] Oh, I'm currently struggling with one in real life.

[2330] What?

[2331] Peco banal.

[2332] Peco bangiol.

[2333] Oh, God, he's the hardest name in the world to say.

[2334] He's a MotoGP racer.

[2335] He's fucking awesome.

[2336] His name is Francesco.

[2337] They call him Pecco.

[2338] Peco Bengala.

[2339] Who.

[2340] MotoGP, you could watch it just.

[2341] just to listen to them repeat all these names.

[2342] The names are insane across the board.

[2343] It's better than from.

[2344] Pecco.

[2345] Oh, Peco.

[2346] Peco.

[2347] For Francesco.

[2348] Francesco Peco.

[2349] Interesting.

[2350] Peco, Bengala.

[2351] Okay, for Sarah, Sally.

[2352] That's kind of weird.

[2353] Yeah.

[2354] And then for Mary, Pauley.

[2355] No. No, no, no, no, no. That would come from Paulet or Paula.

[2356] What was Jen?

[2357] Mary.

[2358] Mary.

[2359] Mary and Polly.

[2360] Someone literally made this website at home.

[2361] It just thought in their mind.

[2362] Like, what would be the craziest?

[2363] Stop taking it away from people.

[2364] This is real.

[2365] Nancy Ansi.

[2366] Francesco was called that because his sister couldn't pronounce his name and called him Pecco.

[2367] Oh, it's a nickname.

[2368] Well, a nickname in the truest sense.

[2369] Right.

[2370] Not a common nickname.

[2371] Okay, that makes sense.

[2372] We've got to be done talking about this now.

[2373] Okay.

[2374] Yeah, we're getting cocky.

[2375] We just got busted being cocky.

[2376] No, I think the nickname thing is interesting because it's so weird.

[2377] Yeah.

[2378] That's all.

[2379] Oh, okay.

[2380] I love Drew Barrymore.

[2381] Me too.

[2382] That was really, really fun.

[2383] It was.

[2384] Okay, I love you.

[2385] I love you.

[2386] Love you.

[2387] Love you.

[2388] See you tomorrow.

[2389] On the flip side.

[2390] Follow armchair expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcast.

[2391] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

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