Zach Braff

[0] Hello, everybody.

[1] Welcome to armchair expert.

[2] Today, we have a guess that a lot of people been asking for, for two reasons.

[3] I think, A, they're just interested in him, which is very natural.

[4] But even I think more pronounced is the desire to hear the two people who look most alike on planet Earth sit down and talk to one another because for many years now, over a decade, Zach Braff often gets asked if he is Dax Shepherd.

[5] And I always get asked if I'm Zach Braff.

[6] people on Twitter like to remind us of the similarity every few minutes, I think.

[7] I think we've both had a fun journey of accepting that, embracing it.

[8] We will talk at great length about it.

[9] Zach Braff, you know from Without a Paddle, Punked, Zathura, Parenthood.

[10] Oh, wait, no. Zach Braff, you know from Scrubs and Garden State.

[11] He has a brand new show called Alex Inc., which is premiering right now or just came out.

[12] So please sit back and enjoy.

[13] this in -depth exploration of two doppelgangers.

[14] Can that be pluralized?

[15] I don't know.

[16] Maybe monocle effect check it.

[17] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and add free right now.

[18] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[19] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[20] and fucking green light chips because I'm not going to not work for the next two years or whatever but I thought that was the apex of our similarity as that we were no I remember seeing you a lot I remember seeing you on the lot and let me introduce you sorry Zach are rolling we will be it's like looking in the mirror Zach rath welcomed to the armchair expert I think this is for many folks who like one and or both of us yeah this is this is a long time in the making yeah people the America wanted this I don't I don't think America's ready for us to be visually in front of them at the same time.

[21] Well, the picture that you're going to, what we're going to take is going to blow people's mind.

[22] Yes.

[23] And I think you and I both talked publicly about the fact that Kristen once took one of those face swapping photos of you and I and just switched our face.

[24] And you genuinely can't tell whose face is on who.

[25] It's really weird though because, I mean, we, even the tired eye thing you have there, I get.

[26] It's a bummer, isn't it?

[27] Is I new?

[28] But I mean, we're virtually the same age, too, right?

[29] I'm 42.

[30] 43.

[31] 43.

[32] Okay, yeah.

[33] I've been told I look like so many people throughout my life, but I feel like as we're aging, we are merging in our looks.

[34] Getting even closer.

[35] And also, you've gotten way more successful and known and it's changing and really annoying my life.

[36] Good.

[37] Good, good, good.

[38] And I really want to go through the history of the whole thing with you.

[39] Yes, let's start.

[40] Because my earliest memory of it is Kristen taking that face swap picture.

[41] It was a long time ago.

[42] It was at, I think, there's some event.

[43] Some fancy thing.

[44] Some fancy event.

[45] Hollywoody thing.

[46] Some Hollywoody fancy event.

[47] And I remember, oh, that is funny because we do kind of look alike.

[48] That was the first time you had heard that?

[49] No, I think I'd heard it.

[50] And so I knew why she was doing it.

[51] But I think it wasn't everywhere.

[52] Right.

[53] Now it comes in my life every two days.

[54] Yeah, I think both of us have had tweets where we said, like, if someone doesn't point that out to me after like a day, I think Twitter's broken.

[55] Like, I think it actually is not functioning for people.

[56] It's funny that on Twitter, people are like, has anyone ever thought that?

[57] Like, yes.

[58] People have thought it.

[59] It reminds me of, we'll go places and moms will say to Kristen, like, I know this is crazy, but my daughters are obsessed with Rosen.

[60] It's kind of like, well, yeah, made a billion four.

[61] I assume some girls are out.

[62] Yeah.

[63] Let me tell you what hurts my feelings.

[64] When they find out I'm not you.

[65] This is how it usually goes down.

[66] Because we have so much in common.

[67] What's bizarre is not only we look alike.

[68] We have so much in common.

[69] And one of the things is that we are.

[70] both on a show that mixed drama and comedy.

[71] So I will have people come up to me and they go, holding their heart.

[72] And they'll go, I just got to say, I loved your show.

[73] And I'll go, thank you so much.

[74] You're so sweet.

[75] And they'll go, and just the way that it would go between comedy and drama.

[76] I go, thank you.

[77] I know.

[78] That was all Bill Lawrence.

[79] But no, I'm not going to say I didn't improv a little.

[80] And they'd be like, and your wife is the cutest.

[81] And I'm like, oh, I don't.

[82] don't have a wife, let alone a cute one.

[83] Welcome to my world where I think most compliments are just a conduit to tell me they like my wife.

[84] It's like they got to get through the part where they act like they like me just eventually.

[85] Basically, Kristen's fame is really made things difficult for me. Yeah.

[86] Well, let me tell you from my, because you were successful before I was and the very first time this was brought to my attention.

[87] My uncle called me. He goes, oh my God, I thought you finally got a show.

[88] Have you seen the show Scrubs?

[89] I'm like, no, he goes, this guy's identical to you.

[90] You know, generally when people tell you you look like somebody, I never agree.

[91] Like the other people, I'm like, I don't see it.

[92] People tell me I look like Tom Paddy.

[93] Now, I get Tom Cavana.

[94] Do you get Tom Cavana?

[95] No. You get Ray Romano, right?

[96] That's where we diverge is that.

[97] I don't look anything like Ray Romano.

[98] But you know how you do look like a little bit?

[99] Our Venn diagram overlaps at John Ritter, I think.

[100] Okay, I'll take that.

[101] We both look a little like a young John Ritter.

[102] That's flattering.

[103] Yes.

[104] Yeah, I get the guy a lot from Kruger.

[105] Chad Kruger.

[106] Yeah, Chad Kruger.

[107] I'm not going to get the Chad.

[108] You know, it was better for both of us when your hair was more blonde.

[109] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[110] Is there some sort of, are you open to dying?

[111] I used to get highlights because my hero Brad Pitt got highlights, so I did too.

[112] And yeah, I've just fallen off of it.

[113] But so my uncle says, you know, watch this show Scrubs.

[114] And I tune it in and I got to say, I was like, oh my God, that is me. Not just the physical stuff, like the nose and the mouth, but the way you talk, the way your lips moved.

[115] I was like, this is very eerie thing.

[116] Well, that's new, though.

[117] Not for, maybe for you.

[118] I always had this.

[119] Oh, you did?

[120] Yeah, I just thought it was sort of my complexion.

[121] And then the makeup artist on shows are always trying to cover it up.

[122] I'm like, that's not going anywhere.

[123] Should we go in for like?

[124] Maybe we can two for one.

[125] Yeah, because basically once they draw the, you know, the template on one face, they can just replicate it.

[126] But what's funny, you once said to me, and I always tell people this story, because we come from such different backgrounds.

[127] You said, look, this movie sells itself.

[128] we were separated at birth.

[129] Identical twins.

[130] Identical twins.

[131] You said you were raised in the south.

[132] By hillbillies.

[133] Yeah.

[134] Or like you work on a ranch or something.

[135] And I'm like East Coast Jewish guy.

[136] Yeah.

[137] And for some reason we have to go to the opposite.

[138] I have to go work with the hillbillies.

[139] Yeah.

[140] And you have to go to the bar mitzvah for the Goldbergs.

[141] Yeah.

[142] Well, you know what would be great is just a body switching comedy with you.

[143] And there's no stakes.

[144] There's absolutely no stakes.

[145] It's like, oh no, I look just like.

[146] like me and I do the same thing.

[147] What will I do?

[148] No, or like that movie Dave.

[149] Remember?

[150] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[151] He looks exactly like the president.

[152] Yes.

[153] And so they put him in as a as a front for the president.

[154] But my pitch to you that that movie was called Nature versus Nurture and it was, the movie was, you know, in a comedic way was going to tackle.

[155] What does your upbringing do to you?

[156] Could it make you a Jewish guy on one side and a hillbilly on the other if we started as the same?

[157] This is an exciting premise.

[158] I'm one ticket sold for that movie, Dax.

[159] I don't know why you haven't pitched it yet.

[160] So first I saw, you know, scrubs.

[161] And then I got to tell you my personal feelings about it were, oh, great.

[162] I'm not going to ever work anyways.

[163] And certainly not now because there's already a me. They already got a me. They don't need a second one.

[164] So I was jealous of you for sure.

[165] And then the next time it happened was punked aired.

[166] I do without a paddle.

[167] I'm in San Francisco with the other two boys, Matt and Seth, and where they're promoting it.

[168] And a guy comes up to me on the street and he goes, oh my God, I'm so fucking.

[169] and excited to see your movie.

[170] And I'm like, oh, thank you.

[171] Because Garden State and without a paddle came out within the same summer, I believe.

[172] I was dating one of your co -stars, Bonnie Somerville.

[173] That's right.

[174] Just to just make it weirder.

[175] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[176] I do remember that.

[177] Yeah, it was the exact time.

[178] God, I forgot all about that.

[179] Because I would make those jokes in New Zealand, like, easy to get confused.

[180] No one would blame you.

[181] But that was the first experience.

[182] So, you know, same shit.

[183] Oh, my God, I can't wait to see your movie.

[184] I'm thinking great.

[185] People are going to see without a paddling.

[186] Oh, my God, it looks so funny.

[187] I'm like, yep, it does look funny.

[188] And he goes, oh, that thing where you're like standing in front of the wallpaper with the same shirt.

[189] And I'm like, well, wrong guy.

[190] That's a little disappointing to have your big moment kind of stolen, especially at the very beginning.

[191] Yeah, I understand.

[192] And I'm going to play armchair psychologist.

[193] I just have to imagine if I'm you.

[194] Yeah.

[195] And I start getting compared to a guy who's on a reality show.

[196] Punked.

[197] I'm not pumped about that.

[198] It's not like they're saying, you know, you look like Richard Geer.

[199] Well, you've always been.

[200] You've always been very fit.

[201] Oh.

[202] So I always assumed that they thought I was muscular.

[203] Oh, okay.

[204] In fact, I was somebody talking about that.

[205] I go to see my doctor literally yesterday.

[206] I walk in, and he's a really sassy doctor.

[207] He likes to be a wise ass.

[208] That's part of his schick.

[209] And he goes, I got to tell you something.

[210] I just saw this movie on the plane.

[211] And I go, going in style, it's pretty good, right?

[212] He goes, no, no, no. It was a guy who looks like you.

[213] I'm like, Dax Shepherd.

[214] Yeah, yeah, chips.

[215] Saw on the plane.

[216] I go, he goes, you really, really look alike.

[217] I go, I know.

[218] I know.

[219] He goes, he's, he's a really good shape.

[220] And I go, and I go, no, I know he works out a lot, I think, obviously.

[221] And he goes, no, but I mean, like, he's really, really good shape.

[222] I don't know, I got it.

[223] And I go, what a weird thing for your doctor to be telling you?

[224] No, listen, it goes, one step worse.

[225] So I go, I know, I got it.

[226] I got it.

[227] So then he goes, okay, go to room two.

[228] I'll be in a second.

[229] He comes in a room too.

[230] He goes, I mean, the dude is like ripped.

[231] And he goes, okay, take off his shirt.

[232] I'm going to take off your shirt.

[233] And I take off my shirt.

[234] He goes, oh, man. Yeah, you look nothing like him now.

[235] That's great.

[236] What a good doctor.

[237] That's my doctor.

[238] I'm like, you're such a dick.

[239] But again, back to the potentially emotional stuff, right of it.

[240] I'm sure expert.

[241] Because I feel like, and again, this is my own perspective.

[242] And I'm sure it's very warped by my own insecurities.

[243] Yeah.

[244] But my perspective was that you did not enjoy that for a long time.

[245] No, you read that in it.

[246] I did.

[247] Yeah, I didn't take that at all.

[248] Oh, okay.

[249] You're from New Jersey.

[250] Is that accurate?

[251] Yes.

[252] I'm from South Orange, New Jersey.

[253] How close is that to Manhattan?

[254] It's about 45 minutes.

[255] There's a commuter train that'll take you there in 20 minutes.

[256] And what did your parents do?

[257] My dad was a trial attorney, corporate litigation.

[258] My mom raised four kids and was a nurse and then decided she wanted to go back and get her Ph .D. And whilst raising four kids, she went back to school at nights and got her Ph .D. And became a psychologist.

[259] Yeah, it was pretty amazing.

[260] Wow.

[261] So your mom is a very strong kind of determining.

[262] Oh, amazing and so smart.

[263] And do you find that you're attracted to non -dead beats exclusively?

[264] No, my mom wishes I was, I would date someone.

[265] I married my mother for sure.

[266] Really?

[267] Oh, yeah.

[268] My mom was a powerhouse.

[269] Oh, she's a strong machine, work, workaholic company, started as a jander, built this great company, very inspiring.

[270] And yeah, when I had girlfriends, I was like, what are you up to today?

[271] I'm just going to, and I'm like, I'm out.

[272] If you're not like tackling life.

[273] I need a dose of that.

[274] I think I often end up with women who don't have the most direction.

[275] The opposite.

[276] And do you think that is in some weird way a rejection of your mother?

[277] I think it's Hollywood really.

[278] I mean, I'm just around, I mean, not to blame it on the town.

[279] It was my, I think, my own responsibility.

[280] But, you know, there's so many people in our industry that are sort of aimless.

[281] Sure.

[282] And that's who I'm around most often.

[283] As you said, you date women who are like, what are you doing today?

[284] like, I don't know, I'm probably going to, I might work out and then I'm going to read Instagram.

[285] Yeah, yeah, I might.

[286] That's great.

[287] Read Instagram.

[288] But it could be, it's also, I think, an easy trap.

[289] If you have the lifestyle that you have where you're working weird hours and then you're on locations and then you also live in New York.

[290] So the less someone has going on, the more conducive it is for them to join you for the ride.

[291] One thousand percent.

[292] And that's what gets in the way when you, when, you know, last person I was exclusive with was she wasn't in the business, but she had a child and was sort of based here.

[293] and that definitely makes you go, oh, well, then how do I continue to, how do you go on location for six months or how, you know, especially when you're directing, you're there longer.

[294] And so anyway, it's just, that's why, of course, that's the, that's one of the tropey reasons why actors often date other actors is because they have that sort of lifestyle.

[295] Yeah.

[296] And your dad is clearly a bright individual.

[297] He's a trial attorney.

[298] Yeah.

[299] And he's the reason I got into the business, actually, because his hobby was, he loved theater more than anything.

[300] Oh, really?

[301] And he did the community theater plays.

[302] He was always the star.

[303] Really good.

[304] And so I would go as a little kid and watch him and be the star of the local production and have people cheer for him.

[305] And I was like, I want in on this.

[306] Yeah, that looks like it tastes good.

[307] Yeah.

[308] So I was on the stage crew.

[309] I would be like the little kid helping out on the sets, moving the sets.

[310] And then by the while I got into it.

[311] And my stereotype of a trial attorney is someone who's pretty agro.

[312] Was he was alpha in nature?

[313] No, it wasn't alpha.

[314] He's a sensitive lover.

[315] A big hugger of a guy.

[316] Uh -huh.

[317] I just accidentally said my dad was a sensitive lover.

[318] But what I meant was.

[319] What I meant was that he's a patient lover.

[320] He never rushes me. No, I meant that he What I meant is that he is a big, softy, huggy kind of guy.

[321] And no, I mean, he was a tough attorney, I'm sure when he needed to be, but he was a good, great dad.

[322] And they stayed married?

[323] No, no. No, who does?

[324] Don't be ridiculous.

[325] Don't you find out someone who knows divorcing every day?

[326] Yeah.

[327] And what age were you when they got divorced?

[328] I was eight.

[329] That's pretty rough because you've had the whole nuclear family experience for quite a while.

[330] I did and then it sucked and then they both meant well, but what they did was they did joint custody a week and a week, which is not something a lot of people do.

[331] No, that's bizarre.

[332] But I don't recommend it.

[333] You can't build a life in either place, right?

[334] Pretty much you would be sad on Sunday when you'd move and then throughout the course of the week, you'd get used to the other rhythms of the house and you'd get used to the other parenting style.

[335] And then about Friday, it feels right.

[336] Yeah.

[337] And then on Sunday, you'd move again.

[338] That's good for me to hear because, of course, my woe is me story as I had.

[339] My dad did every other weekend.

[340] But on that weekend, he usually dropped us off at my grandparents.

[341] And then, or we went to the bar with him.

[342] So I'm like, oh, well, that's as bad as it can get.

[343] Well, I think it's all bad.

[344] Somewhere in between is ideal.

[345] Maybe that's the way.

[346] Yeah.

[347] No, I mean, he met well because they were going through divorce, whatever, it happens.

[348] But he wanted to be as involved as possible.

[349] But I don't think it was good for our mental health.

[350] And a very time -consuming job lawyer.

[351] Right, probably the worst hours of any occupation.

[352] Yeah, a lot of pressure.

[353] Work a ton.

[354] We worked a ton.

[355] We had a babysitter when we, pretty much all the time, full time, a Haitian woman who taught me Creole.

[356] Oh, really?

[357] Could you say anything to us or is that a cultural appropriation?

[358] Would we get in trouble for me?

[359] I don't know.

[360] I don't think so.

[361] We got Monica.

[362] I'm going to say it's okay.

[363] You're asking a minority woman.

[364] Does that mean it's okay?

[365] That's my part.

[366] Yeah, yeah.

[367] I'm trying to think.

[368] I don't know.

[369] It was mostly curses.

[370] She'd yell at her daughter.

[371] Cynthia, map craze, fig you.

[372] Map caribunda.

[373] Which pretty much means like, Kim here, I'm going to break your face, come and eat you, you slut.

[374] That's a perfect sentence for you to learn.

[375] But this is what she would be.

[376] As a person with two daughters, for sure.

[377] She would have the, she had the cutest little daughter.

[378] Uh -huh.

[379] And she would scream at her in Creole.

[380] And eventually, you got older, we started to be like, what are you saying?

[381] And she was like, you don't want to know.

[382] But we were running around me like, Map graze, figio.

[383] Your Haitian listening audience is shocked that I know this.

[384] They're probably excited.

[385] I will say, you just far exceeded my expectations.

[386] Well, how about you, Monica?

[387] When I said, do you know any, and then he kind of looked down, and I could see he was trying to recollect it.

[388] Well, I remember at best he'll get one word.

[389] I was trying, search my brain for a phrase that she would yell.

[390] Mop, my carse figure.

[391] I'm going to, I think it means I'm going to break your fucking face.

[392] So Monica was just on vacation with Chris and I and Turks and Kekos.

[393] And of course, the very first thing I do is, is I'm picking up some of the words that the guys that work there use.

[394] And then, of course, I'm insisting on using them too.

[395] And it's of great embarrassment to Monica.

[396] It's pretty amazing.

[397] Whigwam, was that the thing that I used to see?

[398] I don't think that's what I was.

[399] They're probably used to tourists coming and trying to be cool.

[400] Yeah.

[401] It's a sickness I have where I can't, I have a hard time not being a part of any group that I'm around.

[402] The notion that I won't be included is insufferable to me. You're a pretty gregarious guy.

[403] It seems like to a fault.

[404] It seems to me one place we differ since we have the same DNA.

[405] You are very gregarious and outgoing and popular and...

[406] Oh, popular.

[407] I like that.

[408] Well, you have a lot of friends, don't you?

[409] I think I love it.

[410] You're very social.

[411] Yes, I love having...

[412] I think the one thing that makes being on planet Earth worthwhile is having friends.

[413] Yeah.

[414] And so you and your wife, you often, when you're not working, going to people's things and events...

[415] Well, that we're not doing.

[416] I will say that's probably misleading because obviously the only time you or I see each other is at an event.

[417] That's rest assured that's probably the one event we went to.

[418] I don't mean events.

[419] We're very homebody.

[420] Yeah, but we're super social.

[421] Yes.

[422] We're always at someone else's house with each other friends and family and kids.

[423] And we have kids and when you have kids, you'll see like everything.

[424] It's all about getting them preoccupied so you can play a game or something.

[425] So mom, she continued to practice psychology.

[426] She had a practice and patience.

[427] My mom fell in love and moved in with a mom.

[428] my stepfather, they got married.

[429] And then they both would see patients in the living room.

[430] No kidding.

[431] Yeah.

[432] And we were kids.

[433] We would eastrop.

[434] You know, I'd be like in the basement like with my model trains like listening.

[435] Like I can't believe that what they're fighting about and like it would be the most intense.

[436] Yeah.

[437] Therapy stuff.

[438] Is it is that good or bad to to hear as a kid?

[439] I remember the first time it happened.

[440] There was a couple arguing in the living room.

[441] They were crying and screaming as as couples in couples therapy too.

[442] Oh my goodness.

[443] Well, eventually my parents.

[444] I'm like a fault like I just want to say like my parenting style is like is as close to Mr. Fantastic as you can get like they hear the goddamn truth if she asks how a baby comes a penis in the vagina ejaculate on the old of them like I don't shy away from anything.

[445] You can maybe not say ejaculate you could say there's a magic sauce baby batterer no I probably cleaned it up a bit but even with my stance on this I don't know that that's the ideal scenario but then maybe it is welcoming you to what the world really is, which I don't know as bad.

[446] I think it was traumatic at first, and then they got a little bit better about picking the hours because at first it was like, you know, after dinner, like going to see a married couple in the living room.

[447] But then they started figuring it out and scheduling them mostly during the day.

[448] But you're hearing about people's sex lives unquestionably, right?

[449] Because that's usually a big problem in the relationship.

[450] I don't mean to say that I was sitting there with my ear against the wall.

[451] What I mean to say is that when it would crescendo, like they were in the living room in the door closed.

[452] But when it were crescendo, like, fuck you, Bob.

[453] Yeah, yeah.

[454] You know, then you'd hear it.

[455] Or when a woman was, was weeping, you'd hear it, you know.

[456] Yeah.

[457] It's hard to address the H .O. train tracks when, when someone's crying above your head.

[458] And do you think that your mother, did you ever at times feel like she was psychoanalyzing you?

[459] Sometimes, but I would say more off than not, it was good.

[460] It was a good thing because they were, she was, my mom is an amazing listener.

[461] And actually, you know, as you start to get older, you go, wait a minute, this is free therapy.

[462] Yeah, if you dig it.

[463] Well, I did.

[464] And then I eventually, I've been to therapy on my.

[465] own without being a parent, without your mom, which is better.

[466] I'm sure there were times where I was like, oh my God, stop analyzing me. But I think there were more times than not that it was like, wow, she's such a good listener.

[467] She's really sitting there and being patient and letting me voice my feelings.

[468] Yeah, that part's great.

[469] Well, first, I should say, I'm very pro therapy.

[470] So I think it's a great resource.

[471] But I've also heard this stereotype that generally, you know, people that are drawn to their psychology as a major are, you know, pretty fucked up themselves.

[472] And then this cycle, heard that kind of stereotype.

[473] That's not my experience.

[474] My mom was not that way.

[475] Let me be more delicate about that.

[476] So you're searching for some healing and because you have some trouble and you go, oh, this place has some answers.

[477] I'm attracted to finding out those answers.

[478] I don't mean to say it and oh, they're fucked up and then they go into psychology.

[479] But clearly if something als you and there's a potential solution, I could see where it would funnel in people that were feeling a little bit.

[480] Well, actually, interesting, my mom was the, this is crazy, but my mom, she was a psychiatric nurse first.

[481] So she was the night nurse.

[482] at the VA Psychiatric Ward in East Orange, New Jersey.

[483] Yeah.

[484] So that's like ground zero.

[485] That's a really, really intense job at night.

[486] Yeah.

[487] And by the way, she had four kids, I think was so dedicated to helping people and was so blown away by what she saw in this VA hospital.

[488] Then she was like, I really want to get my PhD and I want to be a doctor.

[489] I don't want to just be a nurse.

[490] Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

[491] If you dare.

[492] We've all been there, turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[493] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[494] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[495] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[496] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[497] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[498] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[499] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[500] What's up, guys?

[501] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, It's too good, and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[502] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[503] And I don't mean just friends.

[504] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[505] The list goes on.

[506] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[507] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[508] And what order were you and these four kids?

[509] Last.

[510] Oh, you were?

[511] Yeah.

[512] Huh.

[513] I'm not super familiar with what that is supposed to be.

[514] That's perfect for you being an armchair expert.

[515] Yeah, yeah.

[516] I'm a middle child, so I know all about, and I'm very familiar with what a firstborn does, but what does the last born do?

[517] I think they would say you're spoiled, right?

[518] I don't know.

[519] I mean, they're kind of like, we'll give you whatever you want at this point.

[520] And you have a little bit longer leash because they're tired of micromanaging.

[521] Yeah.

[522] You have siblings that are helping you.

[523] Yeah.

[524] And also, you know, I think they ironed out a lot of the kinks with the first three.

[525] So things they were doing that were not working.

[526] By the time they got to me, they were like, let's try it this way at this time.

[527] Yeah.

[528] And I think they were probably more more patient with me. more support, maybe more supportive of what I wanted to do.

[529] And how spaced out were you guys?

[530] Roughly every three.

[531] My, my eldest brother is 10 years older than me. So, and then my brother is fewer younger than him and then my sister.

[532] I don't know, like roughly two or three each.

[533] And did you idolize any of those?

[534] All of them.

[535] You did.

[536] All of them at different times.

[537] My brother Adam came out to Hollywood.

[538] He went to UCLA and then he was out here working in Hollywood and I would come out.

[539] And I just, you know, I so wanted to work in the movie even his little kid.

[540] And I just, he would bring me on sets.

[541] And I just thought it was the most exciting thing in the world.

[542] But did he pursue something in...

[543] He started in the art department because he went to art school at UCLA.

[544] And then he got in, got into the union and started working in the art department on TV shows and movies as a set dresser and was kind of working on really big shows.

[545] And then he started writing.

[546] And then actually my last movie that I made before going in style was called Wish I Was Here Inspired by our family.

[547] And I wrote that with him.

[548] Yeah.

[549] This is a very good writer.

[550] But yeah, so my point is as I was a kid coming out here, he was bringing, he would bring me on these amazing sets and bring me these prop houses.

[551] and it was just so excited.

[552] Yeah, anything at that age right is like, anything that's getting close to the business is so...

[553] I had no other interests except entertainment.

[554] I did no interest in sports.

[555] I had no interest in...

[556] I mean, I liked girls, and I liked being an actor and a filmmaker.

[557] That's all I wanted to do.

[558] And did you act as a kid?

[559] Yeah.

[560] My first part was actually in a pilot for CBS, and it was Gwyneth Paltrow's first part as well.

[561] Oh, no kidding.

[562] And nothing ever became of her.

[563] Yeah, who?

[564] Yeah, yeah.

[565] We were on a pilot for CBS called Hi, about a high school and she was the beautiful cheerleader and I was the nerdy freshman.

[566] Oh, okay.

[567] You know, ensemble cast high school show.

[568] Did you date in this show?

[569] We didn't.

[570] But I remember thinking as a 14 year old boy, that type of beautiful human being I have not yet seen in South Orange, New Jersey.

[571] Yeah, because she's nine feet tall and blonde.

[572] Well, she was just, you know, she was with Paltrow at at 17, 18 and she was the prettiest thing I'd ever seen in my life.

[573] Prettyest woman I'd ever see in my life.

[574] Did you tell me personally or did I see an interview with you, But did you just go to camp?

[575] I did.

[576] I went to a theater camp called Stage Door Manor, which is when you're a kid and you like acting and you really want to take it seriously.

[577] Yeah.

[578] That's where I got scouted by agents and that sent me on the auditions for that.

[579] But when you go there, I'm assuming you're the king of camp.

[580] Are you like the quarterback of the football team at this camp?

[581] What happens is, yeah, because I, I mean, not to toot my own horn, but as a kid actor, I was pretty darn good.

[582] Uh -huh.

[583] And you're not terrible looking.

[584] I'm not terrible looking.

[585] and I love that when you say it it's so funny and you're fucking hot let's be honest that's what we didn't cover I should have said that up I hate the way I look so I don't know how do you love how you look I don't hate how I look I know I when I it's funny because I we both direct ourselves and we have you always have to look at the monitor and you're usually standing with like you know Kate Hudson and Ali Portman and it's like oh my God it's beauty in the fucking beast look at my chin it's hard not to so it makes it worse right when you're in these movies with these beautiful people or just fucking on a five foot tall screen it's not you know right the flaws come out i know i kind of i read somewhere some famous actor was like the second you can let all that ego should go the happy'll be but i'm 42 i haven't yet but anyway so i and also a lot of the young boys there were already realizing they were gay right yeah so that made it even more utopia because you're going through puberty it was like 13 years old you're in this camp with all these beautiful girls and i'm you're in 13 years old like really going through the the changes.

[586] Yeah.

[587] And things are happening.

[588] And half the population is gay.

[589] And you're, and I'm getting the leads in the shows.

[590] So it was a, it was like, oh, the tumba.

[591] Yeah.

[592] And then when you would return to, did you go to public?

[593] Yeah.

[594] Then I returned to public ice school where like the lacrosse kids were cool and I was just a dork.

[595] It was, it was a real mind fuck.

[596] I would really be so depressed when I came back.

[597] Yes, I imagine.

[598] Joking aside, I would really go through a depression when I came back.

[599] Because I, it was like you'd been to heaven.

[600] Yes.

[601] And I saw the gates.

[602] I mean, I'm joking.

[603] I mean, obviously the girl's part was one of it.

[604] But it was really like, Like here acting is cool and here performing is cool.

[605] And here you don't have to hide who you are.

[606] Yeah.

[607] And then I'd go back and oh, I got to go back to public school.

[608] I have to act like, you know, I have to put on all these layers back on.

[609] Yeah.

[610] It was a mind fuck.

[611] I sent my mom a picture of me yesterday.

[612] An old picture I'd found.

[613] And she goes, oh my God, why do you look so sad?

[614] And I think I said, I think is the day I was leaving camp.

[615] Literally, I just texted her this yesterday because I, you know, it was like being, it was like being yanked out of utopia.

[616] I don't know if you've had this experience.

[617] I'm sure you've met a ton of success.

[618] successful people in this business.

[619] And what's interesting to see what happens to some male actors is they were a nerd in high school and then they enter show business and then they are brilliant at that.

[620] And then they become a leading man. And then they are in the world's eyes, the quarterback of the football team.

[621] But they have no experience with that from their childhood or their teen years or anything.

[622] So they're really trying on an ill -fitting jacket.

[623] I've known a bunch of different guys who basically women love them they have every option at their disposal yet they had none of that in their childhood it's just a little confusing i've seen it kind of warp in weird ways have you witnessed that at all do you know what i'm talking about vaguely i mean i i had a lot of things you just said what i'm i'm suggesting is that you did have those windows where you were this thing that happened to you later in life where girls obviously like you and i way more than they should yes right where people that are way out of our league now are somehow in our league that can be very confusing, but if you've had at least this experience in childhood of going to this camp where you're kind of the stud, a little bit of that.

[624] And also, I wasn't, I wasn't, I was nerdy and I was nerdy and into the AV club.

[625] I mean, I literally remember, I remember, as it, me, taking pride in like, I'm the one who gets to set up this projector in this classroom.

[626] These motherfuckers wish that they knew how to put these reels.

[627] Sure.

[628] Or if the bulb went out.

[629] I just, I just remember thinking like, they must think I look so cool setting up this projector.

[630] Yeah, like a guy from NASA came in.

[631] Yeah, I just remember feeling like just like a badass.

[632] So I was nerdy in that way.

[633] I didn't mean to imply that you weren't crushing in high school.

[634] No. I'm not even saying that that is or isn't what was happening.

[635] I'm telling you an ingredient that I did that some of the examples you did that you mentioned might not have.

[636] And that was I did learn to adapt by becoming the class clown.

[637] Uh -huh.

[638] I learned that, okay, I'm not going to play.

[639] I'm not going to get that cute girl that captain of the soccer team's getting.

[640] But I'm going to make friends and at least find some female.

[641] who were semi interested in me by making them laugh.

[642] And so I sort of developed being the class clown and being outrageous and doing stupid shit.

[643] Yes.

[644] And did you learn to dance?

[645] Because that was another tactic I employed.

[646] I didn't.

[647] You didn't?

[648] I wish I did.

[649] I was watching this girl dance hip hop style on hip -hop.

[650] I sound so old.

[651] Dancing the hip -hop old and white.

[652] It was like I couldn't decide what you sounded more.

[653] Old or white.

[654] I was watching the hip -hop club scene.

[655] I was watching this woman date and dance in the hip -hop style.

[656] And I was like, Wow, I wish I could dance like that.

[657] And with her, because she looked so good doing it.

[658] Yeah, I think if you married being funny and good dancing together.

[659] Yeah, like Justin Timberlake, he's doing okay.

[660] Yeah, guys, he's all right.

[661] He's a jerk.

[662] I was fully prepared to support him as an amazing singer and dancer.

[663] When he crushed that Seriant Live, I was like, we get it, dude.

[664] Leave a little for the rest of us, right?

[665] I know.

[666] But I just want to go back to this point because...

[667] Fucking Timberlick.

[668] And this isn't you, but I...

[669] I bet you more than 72 % of the country.

[670] wants to date him.

[671] That's the uncertainty.

[672] I'm looking at a thing on Dax's wall that says they asked us weekly people.

[673] This really happened.

[674] Would you date Dax?

[675] And there's a picture of Dax and it looks a lot like me as you know.

[676] And the questions Maybe they thought they were voting on you.

[677] Fuck that asshole.

[678] Would you date Dax?

[679] And then it says 72 % said no. By the way, are these women accurate?

[680] Did you date Ashley Olson and Kane Hudson?

[681] Or is that just Us Weekly?

[682] Or are you not allowed to talk about that?

[683] I did date both those people.

[684] There you go.

[685] else weekly got something right wonderful folks both of them but the thing i've seen that's happened a couple times with actors i know a ton of women love them in their success it's weirdly made them a little misogynistic because it's like they don't trust it it's like well fuck that you only like me now you like me because i'm this you know what i'm saying like there's like a distrust in that i think you can weed that out by the time you've had enough experience obviously when you first get famous and you can't believe a pretty girl likes you just because you're famous yeah that's very intoxicating sure But at 42, especially if you're like, I assume we're similar in that we're like, we weren't tens, but we certainly had an appetite for that.

[686] And so we're doing everything.

[687] We're juggling and spinning every plate possible to get.

[688] I don't know about you, but I was fucking girl crazy.

[689] My life, I mean, dude, Mandy Moore was my biggest crush.

[690] And then I dated it for two and a half years.

[691] Yeah, yeah.

[692] I mean, just as an example of your point.

[693] No, no. But here's what happened to me on an emotional journey.

[694] You know, I was trying to get girls that.

[695] that were, by my estimation, better than me. And if I could convince them to like me, then I thought I would be able to believe that I was desirable or attractive or all these things.

[696] I thought that somehow, if they liked me, I would start to maybe like me, right?

[697] Well, that's pretty standard, I think, for anybody.

[698] Yes, and I'm wondering if you had this experience with Mandy were I had gotten to a point where I thought, well, if this person likes me, it's a done deal.

[699] I really am.

[700] No, and I woke up next.

[701] this person.

[702] I'm like, I still feel like a piece of shit.

[703] Yeah.

[704] What's that expression wherever you go, there you are?

[705] Yeah.

[706] And that's a weird, first of all, it's, I guess I'm very grateful to have had that experience because it did teach me permanently.

[707] So then you dated Chris, then you found Kristen, did you?

[708] But Kristen, and I can say this, by the way, still thinking she's the most sensational person in the world, but I didn't know who Kristen Bell was.

[709] So I met her at a dinner party.

[710] This was a girl, I realized she was an actress because she had just finished some movie and she was talking about that.

[711] But I was like, she was talking about some deals she got at Target and she was so enthusiastic about the savings at Target and I thought, oh, this person's very cute and interesting.

[712] So it really, I will say, it didn't do anything for my ego at that moment.

[713] I wasn't like, oh, if I can get this girl's famous and pretty.

[714] If she likes me, then maybe I'm a good deal.

[715] And I'd already had, I had the realization just before that where I'm like, okay, you got to try another strategy for self -esteem because it's not going to come from someone else.

[716] And so you're saying, did you have a similar feeling?

[717] I think of course I had that experience.

[718] I went, oh my goodness, I can't believe this person likes me. And not just with Mandy, with other women I dated.

[719] It was like, wow, this is what's wrong with them.

[720] Yeah, well, Monica and I have talked about this a lot.

[721] And I'll tell you, here's my sickness.

[722] My sickness is this person's better than me. I get them to like me. And then instead of me feeling better, I go, oh, this person's more of a loser than I thought they were because they like me. It actually devalues them instead of valuing.

[723] This line in Annie Hall where Winnie Allen says, I would never want to be a part of any club that would have me as a member.

[724] Yes, yes, yes, which I think is a Marks.

[725] Yeah, he's quoting someone else.

[726] Yeah, one of the Marx brothers, I think.

[727] But I always related to that, like that sort of like, what the, you know, okay, you get this girl to like you and then they like you and you're like, what the hell's wrong with her?

[728] Yeah, 100%.

[729] It's a madness, right?

[730] It's crazy to realize that it's, that the self -esteem thing is an inside job.

[731] It's not an outside job.

[732] It's not a car is not going to give it to you a job, an award, a paycheck.

[733] Right.

[734] They will temporarily make you feel healthier in that regard since you've had this realization.

[735] Oh, 100%.

[736] You know, did you read Sid Arthur when you were a kid?

[737] No. Oh, okay.

[738] Well, the story of Sid Arthur is, you know, he's on this journey for enlightenment, and he ends up finding it through excess weirdly, you know.

[739] And I have found in my own life that I've been lucky enough to get all these things I thought were going to heal me, and then they didn't.

[740] And then I went, oh, it's something else.

[741] Right.

[742] But had I not been given the things, I would still be on the endless pursuit of it.

[743] Yeah, I feel the same way.

[744] I mean, I can report that my times in life when I'm coming.

[745] completely down have not gone away from having enormous success and yeah and luck and certainly right if you tell if you go back in time and you find Zach at 20 years old you went to northwestern right and you go hey guess what dude you're going to be making this much money and be on this network and blah blah blah I'm certain that the 20 year old Zach would be like oh well then I'm going to be the happiest guy on planet earth right right right right which would be awesome if that's how it works it's all relative to you know wherever you go there you are and so that brain and and the you worry about and obsess about and a neurotic about are always with you and where you are and how much money you have and yeah you know I've I've met miserable billionaires I'm sure you have oh yeah there was you oh you listen to Stern I know you're a fan of Stern but you ever hear Mike he's my favorite Mike Tyson anytime he's on Stern I have but I don't remember what you Stern's obsessed with the fact that he lost 500 million dollars like you know how do you even go to sleep at night and he goes how would I have friends of the billionaires that killed himself I have something that money can't buy and I'm like I believe him yeah and what a fucking healthy place to be.

[746] Living in this town, haven't you met a lot of very, very, very successful people idolized.

[747] Yeah, absolutely.

[748] And I go, oh, wow.

[749] And by the way, that's been another thing I feel grateful about is I've met some of my heroes.

[750] And I've seen that the success didn't help in that capacity, you know, that they, they didn't like themselves more.

[751] They weren't necessarily happier.

[752] Yeah.

[753] I met some of the richest people in the world.

[754] Salt and the Brunei.

[755] Who could not be more successful at what they do who are who are miserable.

[756] So do you think that your mother gave you some tools?

[757] I had to learn all this in A. If I hadn't become a drug addict I wouldn't have picked up any of this stuff.

[758] Oh, I didn't know you were sober and I made it.

[759] And I made a drinking joke.

[760] I'm sorry.

[761] I'm still angry about it.

[762] I'm flattered.

[763] How many years?

[764] How many years you've been drinking?

[765] 13 years.

[766] I mean, you've been sick.

[767] Yeah.

[768] I feel like that's a good thing.

[769] Don't you feel so much more productive?

[770] I do.

[771] You know that I can tell you the singular goal I had after a few years of sobriety.

[772] I said to myself, I want to figure out how to be 12 year old Dax who was just so excited to walk outside and do something.

[773] Like I wanted to recapture my enthusiasm for being on planned Earth that I didn't need to put something in me to get that enthusiasm.

[774] And for years I was pessimistic.

[775] I was not going to get that back.

[776] And I will say around seven or eight years, I found myself like, fuck yeah, what are we doing?

[777] We're going to go off -roading.

[778] We're going to, like, I'm pretty on fire to be on planet Earth, which was something I had lost for many, many years.

[779] And that part's really exciting.

[780] I'm reading this amazing book about habits and breaking habits and has a whole section on, on A .A. And I was learning so much about it that I didn't know.

[781] They sort of before it's time figured out how to break habits.

[782] Yeah.

[783] It's like 1950, I think, is around when it started.

[784] They're going on, yeah, on nothing.

[785] They've vented it out of thin air.

[786] There's no, there's nothing scientific about it.

[787] I know.

[788] That was so interesting that.

[789] They had a whole chapter in this book about analyzing what's amazing about what works about it and this sort of science behind changing your habits.

[790] which I found really fascinating.

[791] Are there specific habits that you're attempting to change?

[792] Yeah.

[793] I mean, I think...

[794] You can keep them secret, but if there's some...

[795] No, there's some private, but there's one I would say is I'd like to be more productive.

[796] I get really inspired by people, not necessarily in our business, but just by talking to just super smart, successful people in several different industries.

[797] And I met some really fascinating tech people recently.

[798] And I just feel like I could be so much more productive and not be what I think is lazy occasional.

[799] What is your motivator?

[800] Because you and I are both writers and writing is the worst thing someone can do.

[801] It is.

[802] It's very hard.

[803] In fact, it's funny because Bill Lawrence, who's one of the reasons I have a career who created Scrubs and is one of my best friends.

[804] He hates writing.

[805] Yeah.

[806] And he's like, oh, he's like, this guy is like one of the most successful TV show runners there is.

[807] And he's like, oh, there's nothing worse than having to write.

[808] And there's nothing better than having written.

[809] The Cousden quote, Lawrence Cousden, is writers are people who have agreed to do homework for the rest of their lives.

[810] Yes.

[811] So I feel that way about, oh my God, I'm going to remember that.

[812] Yeah.

[813] Because it's always nagging, right?

[814] It's always in the back of your mind.

[815] Well, it's just like I should be writing and I have things that I want to write.

[816] This is one of the habits I want to change.

[817] I know people that write every day.

[818] And I have never been that person.

[819] I mean, even Garden State was in, was in pieces all over my house for a long time in sort of various stages and then I got scrubs and I quit my waiting tables job and then they told me oh by the way we're not going to start shooting for four months or maybe it was like we shot the pilot and there was going to be a four month window before we found out if we were going or we were starting I forgot anyway the point is I had four months we had nothing to do and I went this is a sign you are such a fucking idiot if you don't sit down at your dining room table you're going to have your first big break and if you don't have that screenplay ready you better fucking sit down at that dining room table and put it together And it was like this, just sort of berating myself.

[820] Yes.

[821] That finally made me sit down at the dining room table and put it all together.

[822] Yeah.

[823] For me, it's that way every time.

[824] You just, it's very, very hard to get my ass in the chair.

[825] I remember it's great memory of my mom.

[826] I was, I knew, I was so proud of the script I'd written.

[827] And I remember reading scenes from Garden State to my mom, like almost like a kid being like, Mom, look at my art project.

[828] And I just remember this, just this great pride at myself.

[829] Like, look what I made.

[830] I didn't even, and no one financed it yet.

[831] just like, look what I, look, it's 120 days.

[832] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[833] Yeah, to hold the thing.

[834] There was this feeling of just such pride.

[835] So, you know, it doesn't happen often.

[836] If someone does ask me advice about writing, my big trick is I give myself permission to write something terrible.

[837] That to me is the big hurdle.

[838] Because the, the, the dauntingness of having to sit down and write a great scene is that.

[839] It's very daunting.

[840] But if I go, all you got to do is sit down and type out four pages, they can be shitty.

[841] You're allowed to.

[842] You're allowed to.

[843] Just go ahead, write something shitty.

[844] I like that.

[845] And inevitably, it's not, A, it's not shitty.

[846] B, I'll rewrite it and it'll become something good.

[847] But for me, it's just going, you're allowed to be bad.

[848] Just go be bad.

[849] Right.

[850] I think that's part of the problem is that when it has on occasion worked, you're now comparing it to that.

[851] Yeah.

[852] This isn't going to be that pilot you sold.

[853] This isn't going to be that movie that people liked.

[854] Yeah.

[855] This is shit so far.

[856] Yeah.

[857] But I really relate, and I wonder if you have a similar, desire, which is I have almost only been productive out of a place of fear.

[858] So either I'm terrified I'll end up penniless.

[859] I'm terrified.

[860] I won't work again.

[861] I'm telling myself I'm a lazy piece of shit.

[862] I'm a coward.

[863] I would love to be able to write from a place of love and happiness and excitement to create.

[864] And I just, that's not where I work from.

[865] No, and just a little discipline.

[866] I think when I was talking about habits and changing habits, just finding, I would like to In the spirit of like, I'm having this response to, Zach, why don't you go right for an hour?

[867] Like, I would love to change what's happening in that chain that's making me go, brain going find anything else.

[868] Yeah, yeah.

[869] Clean refrigerator.

[870] Uh -huh.

[871] Yeah.

[872] Jerk off for me is usually high on that list.

[873] Let's just get this jerk off out of the way.

[874] Let's get this.

[875] You know, once I jerk off, I'll be able to write.

[876] Yeah, I'll clear my head.

[877] But now to go back to your mother.

[878] Easy transition.

[879] Yeah, that was a natural segue.

[880] good at this.

[881] So I had to go to AA, but I'm wondering or I like to believe that you might have left the house with some tools that an average person doesn't get, having had a mother who's a psychologist.

[882] And also my stepmother was a or is a therapist.

[883] My stepfather was a psychologist.

[884] I had it all around me. And lots of self -help stuff, not just traditional psychology, lots of self -help books, lots of self -help courses.

[885] And what are some of the things that?

[886] that you used or continue to use.

[887] I took a, my stepmother had me take a class called the Landmark Forum.

[888] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[889] Our good friend Jess went to all of them and he's pretty much downloaded it all of it to us and I love it.

[890] I got a lot out of it.

[891] People are like, oh, that sounds culty.

[892] But for me it wasn't at all.

[893] It was like a three day workshop.

[894] My stepmother was super new.

[895] It used to be SED back in the day.

[896] It was sort of like that, which was a little more intense.

[897] Americans, you might have seen it on the Americans.

[898] I didn't.

[899] Do they do Sest on the Americans?

[900] They did, yeah.

[901] Well, this is sort of a two, 2018 version, of course, I was doing it years ago.

[902] And there's tools I got in that workshop that I think of all the time.

[903] And I recommend that to people actually because I definitely get more out of it than I had in the equivalent amount of therapy sessions.

[904] Yeah.

[905] Well, because it's very, it is my understanding of it by way of Jess is that it is very action oriented.

[906] It is very pragmatic.

[907] But it deals with a lot of stuff with the voice in your head, right?

[908] And the racket and all that.

[909] And I think anyone could benefit from some apparatus.

[910] some lever to manage the voices in our heads.

[911] Yes, and I was very practical.

[912] And also I had seen it work on my, you know, my stepmother had gotten our family into it.

[913] So I'd seen it sort of helped my dad.

[914] And I'd seen it help other people.

[915] And I did it when I was fresh out of college.

[916] And it really was a good set of tools for me. And other things, you know, they were always giving books and saying, and just even quotes and just things to try to help motivate me. And a lot of it, you know, is what put a fire on.

[917] under my ass and got me to to accomplish the things I've accomplished.

[918] Was it hard to get in a Northwestern?

[919] That's a phenomenal school.

[920] Did you have grade grades?

[921] I didn't.

[922] I mean, I had good grades.

[923] I didn't crush the SATs.

[924] And I thought that that will, I did okay, but I thought that that would prevent me from getting in.

[925] But one thing that's cool about Northwestern is they're one of those good schools that will look at the whole thing.

[926] Uh -huh.

[927] Because like you're not even considered by like Brown or Yale unless you have a high enough score.

[928] Sure.

[929] But Northwestern, at least in 1993, prided themselves on saying, look, what is your extracurricular do?

[930] Come have an interview.

[931] Let me read your essays.

[932] Let me look at everything.

[933] Let me look at the whole package.

[934] I went and interviewed and I had had really interesting extracurricular activities because I was doing a lot of different things.

[935] I was on a rescue squad.

[936] I was in a Woody Allen movie.

[937] I had done a bunch of outside the box stuff.

[938] Yeah.

[939] So since you entered college having already worked, did you kind of just proceed with?

[940] I'll continue.

[941] Like, just to give you an example, I find that this huge difference between Kristen and I, my panic level about never working versus hers is she's always worked.

[942] She worked in Michigan, where we're both from, as like a 15 -year -old, you know?

[943] And then she had to drop out of college to be in a Broadway place.

[944] So her only experience with pursuing this is, you know, success, even if it wasn't gigantic, it was a steady little stream of success.

[945] So do you think having had some success back in New Jersey, you didn't approach us with a ton of fear?

[946] I always approached with fear.

[947] I wasn't cocky about it, but I went into, put it this way.

[948] I was cast in Manhattan Murnin Mystery.

[949] And, you know, I was raised on Woody Allen and Annie Hall.

[950] And as Annie Hall was sort of like, you know, religion in my family.

[951] Is it fair to say he's the Jewish Michael Jordan?

[952] Well, not right now.

[953] He's not.

[954] But then in 1993.

[955] But as a child, he was, you know, he and Mel Brooks and Neil Simon were Godheads in my family, Jewish New York comedians.

[956] And we would go see all their plays and we'd go see all their movies.

[957] And my very first role is, these are my scene part.

[958] in my first movie role, Diane Keaton, Woody Allen, and Angelica Houston.

[959] Nuts.

[960] And I'm in one scene in Manhattan Murder Mystery.

[961] But so I got that part and I was 18.

[962] It was like, well, are you going to stay in New York and use this and ride this?

[963] Yeah.

[964] As it would be, you know, it's a pretty dope thing to use.

[965] And I said, no, I really want to go to film school.

[966] I want to make movies.

[967] So I had the sort of confidence to go, no, I'm not going to do that.

[968] I want to go to school.

[969] I want to get better.

[970] I want to learn how to act.

[971] I want to learn filmmaking.

[972] So I sort of stopped right after my biggest break.

[973] and went to school to learn.

[974] Yeah, that's a unique decision.

[975] I don't think I could have made that decision.

[976] I would have been like, oh, yeah, let's not pass this up.

[977] It's a fork in the road where an agent might say, you just got, you know, you just played Woody Allen and Ikeet and son.

[978] You're going to leave town?

[979] Yeah, yeah.

[980] And I was like, yeah, I was wide -eyed.

[981] I was like, yeah, I'm going to make movies.

[982] And was Northwestern just heaven?

[983] Was that the most wonderful place?

[984] The question was great.

[985] Yeah, I really liked it.

[986] It was too cold for me. Okay.

[987] Not to sound like a cranky Jew, but I don't.

[988] like cold weather.

[989] And, you know, I took the tour in the spring.

[990] Uh -huh.

[991] Big mistake.

[992] Gorgeous.

[993] God.

[994] Evanston in the spring.

[995] If you want to go to a beautiful place, go to Lake Michigan.

[996] Yes.

[997] And you know.

[998] Yeah.

[999] And it's amazing.

[1000] I'm in that snow belt.

[1001] You know.

[1002] You're up in it.

[1003] And then I got there.

[1004] My dad dropped me off and he took me to Eddie Bauer and they said, you know, these coats are rated to negative 65.

[1005] And I said, why would anyone need a coat rated to negative 65?

[1006] Yeah.

[1007] It's the fucking win.

[1008] It was horrible.

[1009] I mean, no, at the school, I had a great time.

[1010] And I made amazing friends and I fell in love for the first time.

[1011] And I made a lot of student films.

[1012] And I was heaven.

[1013] I was in, I was, I had a great, I had an acting teacher that changed my life.

[1014] And what was your summer camp experience?

[1015] But it lasted four years, I would imagine.

[1016] Yeah.

[1017] Except more straight boys to compete with.

[1018] Oh, bummer.

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] The ratio.

[1021] Like there's athletes and stuff.

[1022] Well, not.

[1023] Well, yeah.

[1024] I didn't see them too much.

[1025] At Northwestern, probably not too much.

[1026] Yeah, there was only couple.

[1027] So they have like a good rowing team or something.

[1028] I'm sure they had a handsome.

[1029] some rowing team.

[1030] the super strapped deltoids.

[1031] They do those things with the crew.

[1032] Like in the Facebook movie.

[1033] Yeah.

[1034] Social Network.

[1035] Social network.

[1036] One of the coolest scenes.

[1037] Rob Lowe with rowing.

[1038] Yes.

[1039] I fucking love it.

[1040] He has sex with his friend's mother.

[1041] Yes.

[1042] What's that movie?

[1043] Love that movie.

[1044] That really hit home from me. You guys are going to have to maybe one of you guys can Google it.

[1045] Monica fact checks the whole episode and we do it live.

[1046] So everything you say that's erroneous.

[1047] We will expose you and mostly it's just me. So she'll go back to the open.

[1048] And then go, that's wrong?

[1049] Yeah.

[1050] So she'd go, oh, you guys talk.

[1051] What's it called?

[1052] Oxford Blues.

[1053] That was what.

[1054] My sister loves movies in those 80s movies and she would have VH.

[1055] She would have all her VHS tapes labeled and they were, you know, all the gold standard, 16 candles, weird science, you know, pretty and pink.

[1056] The pantheon.

[1057] The pantheon, you know.

[1058] But Oxford Blues was in the rotation.

[1059] Oh, that's great.

[1060] And so I always saw Rob Lowe rowing and banging that guy.

[1061] I might, though, be mixing up the storyline between that.

[1062] And was he in a movie called Class.

[1063] And that's where he had sex with the friends.

[1064] Oh, you're right in the elevator.

[1065] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1066] Can you look, can you fact check that?

[1067] In which movie does Roblo bang someone's mom in an elevator?

[1068] Yeah, which at my age, I was like, this is a great fantasy.

[1069] Do you remember seeing the first movie where you were like, I should not be watching this and I'm feeling things in my loins for the first time?

[1070] I can tell you two things.

[1071] One, my grandfather took me to 10 when it came out and I was five.

[1072] He also took me to Scarface when I was like, six.

[1073] and they cut a guy up in the fucking shower with a chainsaw.

[1074] And I was like, oh, my goodness, humans behave this way?

[1075] Like, the world got so scary for me. But the thing that I'll say that is funniest is my dad had one porno insatiable.

[1076] And my brother, who was five years older than me, he would watch it regularly when my dad was out of the house.

[1077] And I would come downstairs and I would see this porno at like 10 years old.

[1078] And it looked like a homicide to me. It was so scary and weird.

[1079] It looked like that they were killing somebody.

[1080] And that's my argument for like, You don't have to worry too much about kids.

[1081] Like, when they come online, they come online.

[1082] Until they do, it's just the grossest, weirdest thing.

[1083] I remember a babysitter taking us to see Revenge of the Nerds.

[1084] Oh, sure.

[1085] And she was a beautiful babysitter.

[1086] Of course.

[1087] They always are.

[1088] For the sake of this story.

[1089] No, she was.

[1090] She was really beautiful.

[1091] Well, I think she was really beautiful period.

[1092] But also I, at the time, thought she was the most beautiful girl in the world.

[1093] So we go to see Revenge of the Nerds.

[1094] And that scene where he has sex in the fun house with Betty, wearing the Darth Vader mask Yeah and they're saying like we've got Muff or something like that right He says something like all those jocks think about his sports But all us nerds think about his sex or something like that's their secret weapon Because he has this Darth Vader mask on Betty I think her name was Betty She didn't know she thought she was having sex with her handsome jock Again today that movie comes out so unethical Right dude We were just like we were mentioning the other day How Wrong Revenge of the Nerds is Like they put these hidden cameras in the sorority house And they're all sitting around all day watching the sorority girls shower You're screaming, we have muff or we have beaver Whatever the fuck they say Yeah, I think it's time for a reexamination of Revenge of the Nerds And just the notion, yeah, that they tricked a girl Who thought she was fucking the jock And then we're all like, yay, you did it She deserves it But here's the best parts I felt so, I felt horny Horny Yeah, let's call it what it was It's one of the first times in my life I was like, oh my God.

[1095] What are these feelings?

[1096] And for all extensive purposes, in my, intense purposes in my mind, I was on a date.

[1097] Sure, of course you are.

[1098] With this beautiful blonde babysitter.

[1099] So we go into like a Rite Aid or a CVS next door to the movie theater after the movie.

[1100] And I remember thinking, I need to find something in the store that will impress her and tell her that this is what I want.

[1101] And that you're manly probably too.

[1102] Yeah, like a razor or something.

[1103] No, do I head to the hardware aisle.

[1104] Oh.

[1105] And I remember, I'll never forget this long as I live, there was a battery.

[1106] It was like a, it was like, not, I know exactly what you're talking about.

[1107] They used to sell them a lot.

[1108] They were like lantern batteries.

[1109] Yeah.

[1110] God, you're good.

[1111] Two springs on the top.

[1112] Exactly.

[1113] Smaller than a car battery.

[1114] They were everywhere back then, yeah.

[1115] So I see that and my brain, I have no idea what it was.

[1116] Of course not.

[1117] And she comes, she goes, what are you doing in the hardware line?

[1118] We have to go, what are you doing?

[1119] And I go, see this?

[1120] Oh my goodness.

[1121] And this is all because I have.

[1122] I think this is going to make her go, you know what, age restrictions be gone.

[1123] Yes, I'm a man. This is a man I'm with.

[1124] Absolutely.

[1125] I'm thinking the mind of young boys.

[1126] I'm thinking that she's thinking I'm not attracted to this little boy yet.

[1127] But if, but if you were into something manly.

[1128] Yes.

[1129] Like let's say a lantern battery.

[1130] If you needed to illuminate an area.

[1131] I honestly remember even trying to make my voice a little lower.

[1132] I want you see this.

[1133] I go.

[1134] this is what I want for my birthday For my birthday You couldn't even buy it in the moment You couldn't even purchase it You're both trying to be manly And asking for a present for your birthday Which is so like a little little kid I didn't have any money on me I was a little boy Sure sure But in my mind she was thinking like Fuck this guy's manly Absolutely God knows what'll hook up to this thing I don't think I've ever told that story anyone So you're there you go There's an exclusive Yeah.

[1135] My very first sexual thought or feeling was I walked to school in elementary school and I would pass this very big rock that was at the corner of two roads every day.

[1136] And I had a dream where I got my first boner.

[1137] And in my dream, I just was walking by that rock and I had this boner and I didn't know what to do with it.

[1138] And I just, I grinded myself up against this rock.

[1139] You fuck the rock.

[1140] I humped a rock.

[1141] And I woke up with this nagging boner.

[1142] And I just was like, so confused.

[1143] fused by the whole thing because probably I was humping my mattress, I'm guessing, while I was asleep.

[1144] So I woke up with some strange feelings down there.

[1145] And then I would walk by that rock in real life that I had to be shy.

[1146] And I would just try to channel the feeling I had in the dream, but I couldn't.

[1147] It was just a rock in real life.

[1148] But I would stare at it like, why aren't I getting that feeling I had?

[1149] I thought you were saying that you were like shy around the rock.

[1150] I brought the rock flowers.

[1151] You know another funny masturbation story, comma.

[1152] I was a kid actor and I was up for Born the 4th of July.

[1153] Okay.

[1154] Now, Tom Cruise.

[1155] Now, in the movie Born the 4th July, if you recall, you follow young Tom Cruise through several areas of his childhood before he's Tom Cruise.

[1156] And I don't know what age they switched to real Tom Cruise.

[1157] But let's say teen years, I'm sure, or whatever.

[1158] There was a masturbation period of his life and where Tom's character figured out exactly what we're saying, where he's humping everything.

[1159] He's humping a tree.

[1160] He's humping a basketball.

[1161] And I got callbacks for this.

[1162] I did this in front of Oliver Stone.

[1163] I had to act like I was masturbating.

[1164] And you're a child.

[1165] I was a child pretending to masturbating foot of Oliver Stone.

[1166] And I'm going of all people too.

[1167] I remember going, I remember the lines are like, oh God, I'm so, because he is very religious.

[1168] He's like, I'm so sorry, but it just feels so good.

[1169] And he was like asking God for forgiveness while he was masturbating and and humping a tree.

[1170] You're still off book.

[1171] It's so impressed.

[1172] If you're a director hiring me, I just want you know how long I hold on to the lines.

[1173] But you know, when I'm not Now looking at you, my first thought was like, you playing young Tom Cruise doesn't, whatever.

[1174] But then I go, no, you guys have almost the same nose, right?

[1175] Well, I didn't have this nose at the time.

[1176] Oh.

[1177] This came later.

[1178] Okay.

[1179] If you look at me at like 12, I had a little button nose.

[1180] Yeah, me too.

[1181] I'm a half -reed.

[1182] My dad is Eastern European Jewish, but my mom was Protestant.

[1183] So that's why I have blue eyes and but a larger nose.

[1184] I'm sort of a half -ry.

[1185] What's the Yiddish word?

[1186] Shix, a Shix, she was a Shiksa.

[1187] She's a goddess, yeah.

[1188] Yeah, I like that.

[1189] Yeah, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, when you get this nose till ninth grade.

[1190] Yeah, didn't you, when you came in.

[1191] I was, I tell Monica this all the time.

[1192] If I could, if I could relive any year in my life over and over again, it'd be seventh grade.

[1193] There was one year where I was like, I'm killing it.

[1194] Yeah, I look fire.

[1195] And then all of a sudden, little button nose.

[1196] And all of a sudden, you're like, why is that still growing?

[1197] Yeah, we're good.

[1198] We got enough nose.

[1199] Hey, hey, hey, brain.

[1200] We're good with nose.

[1201] Yeah.

[1202] We should compare caricatures that have been drawn of us over the years.

[1203] Well, I would like to see how we compare in high school, like ninth grade.

[1204] I was so fucking gangly and weird looking in ninth grade.

[1205] It was a very rough stretch.

[1206] But anyways, you leave Northwestern.

[1207] You get a degree in what?

[1208] Oh, it was a Bachelor of Arts in Radio Television Film.

[1209] Okay.

[1210] And you made a student film, I assume.

[1211] Yeah, I did.

[1212] Is it good or is it bad?

[1213] I think it's pretty good.

[1214] It's pretentious as fuck.

[1215] Yeah, yeah.

[1216] As all good student films should be.

[1217] Yeah, yeah.

[1218] If you're a student film and it's not pretentious, you're doing it.

[1219] something wrong.

[1220] Yeah.

[1221] Are you able to forgive yourself for that kind of thing?

[1222] I winced a lot at old stuff I've done.

[1223] But I was obsessed with Jean -Pier -Geney at the time.

[1224] His most famous movies, Amelie.

[1225] He made a movie when I was in college called Delicateson.

[1226] Yes, I've seen that.

[1227] That's a great movie.

[1228] And City of Lost Children.

[1229] And there was like these, oh, yeah.

[1230] They're like, it's like, it's like French Terry Gilliam.

[1231] Yes.

[1232] I learned who he was in film school.

[1233] So when I look my look back at my student film, I go, this looks like a student filmmaker who's obsessed with Jean -Pier -Geney and is trying to make his own City of Lost Children Delacetessen's film.

[1234] But I think it's pretty decent.

[1235] Yeah, yeah.

[1236] I applied and got a grant to to make it.

[1237] I'm envious that you studied that because I did anthropology and then I had some electives to burn before graduation where I was like I could take anything I wanted and I took some film history classes at UCLA and they have a nitro projector and all of a sudden I'm watching Casa Blanca and a nitro print and all this and I'm going holy fuck I could have done this for four years.

[1238] What was like I didn't have the balls to try you know to just go Well, my degree is going to be worth.

[1239] Mind you, anthro degree is worthless as well.

[1240] But I just had a hard time going like, oh.

[1241] Wait, so how did you get, where in your life did you get punked then?

[1242] I didn't get punk until I was like 28 years old.

[1243] Oh, so this is when you were.

[1244] I was here for 10 years auditioning for tampon commercials.

[1245] Did you get any?

[1246] Why were you in a tampon commercial?

[1247] Well, it seemed to be what I. You're the boyfriend.

[1248] You're the boyfriend who's like, honey.

[1249] We have a canoeing.

[1250] No. No, it's always there was.

[1251] Honey, you're bleeding all over the living room.

[1252] No, I think the husband, the boyfriend knows this.

[1253] Just wad up your sock No I think honey again it's always the boyfriends always I guess you're not pregnant The boyfriend's always putting a backpack on And he's like honey we're late for the canoe trip Like he's always inciting some Water based water based It's always water based Honey we're gonna go swimming in the in the clear blue water Yeah I probably only audition for one or two of those But I like to say that that in diarrhea medicine Those were the work my specialties is going in on those But yeah in the interim I had gone to UCLA and went through the groundings and did all that stuff.

[1254] Got it.

[1255] Yeah.

[1256] So you come out here immediately after Northwestern?

[1257] I came out here immediately after Northwest.

[1258] No, I went to New York.

[1259] Okay.

[1260] I went to New York and then I got cast in a production of Macbeth with Alec Baldwin and Angela Bassett.

[1261] You have a horseshoe up your ass.

[1262] What are you talking about?

[1263] You know exactly what I'm talking about.

[1264] You just went back to New York and you got cast with all those people.

[1265] Well, I was going to get to...

[1266] I don't care if you're the most brilliant actor alive.

[1267] I was going to continue bragging about the cast.

[1268] Leav Schreiber.

[1269] Okay.

[1270] Michael C. Hall.

[1271] Do you say Schreiber or Schreiber?

[1272] Leav Schreiber?

[1273] Is it a ver or burr?

[1274] Leap Schreiber.

[1275] It's Burr.

[1276] Double check.

[1277] Okay.

[1278] I think it's a B. Can you Google that, please?

[1279] Is it two B's though?

[1280] Leav and Schreiber?

[1281] It's B. It's B. Oh, we're wrong.

[1282] Northwestern.

[1283] Well, no, I just know the guy.

[1284] So it'd be weird if I'd be pronouncing a name forever.

[1285] Yeah.

[1286] else.

[1287] So Michael C. Hall.

[1288] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1289] Dexter.

[1290] Yeah.

[1291] Leavre, Alec, Alec, Alec, Alex Baldwin, Angela Bassett, um, um, um, Abe Lincoln.

[1292] No, there was somebody else who, George Washington, who's uh, Albert Einstein.

[1293] Anyway, oh, George C. Wolf, who, who you might not know, but is a mega, a theater director, uh, directed it.

[1294] And this was my, I got, that's the first part I got.

[1295] Yeah, how can you not say that that's a horseshoe up your ass?

[1296] That's in fucking credible.

[1297] It was incredible.

[1298] Yeah.

[1299] I mean, you're a good actor, but that's, that's not kind of.

[1300] I'll tell you, one thing.

[1301] I had a great Shakespearean acting teacher at Northwestern.

[1302] And so I came out with some sharp sword.

[1303] I just really liked it and embraced it.

[1304] And it's like, it's like dead poet society when you have that teacher that just opens your eyes.

[1305] And you're like, oh my God, I get Eureka.

[1306] I get it.

[1307] And he did that for me with Shakespeare.

[1308] So when I came out and was dropped into New York and auditioning for things when they needed the young, the young looking kid.

[1309] Tom Cruise.

[1310] The young Tom Cruise, who was going to beat off on the tree.

[1311] I was kind of like sprinting out of the gate out of college.

[1312] I mean, I don't know why I'm trying to rationalize my own great part I got.

[1313] I don't know.

[1314] You're causing me to rationalize why I got a good role.

[1315] I don't know.

[1316] Well, I'm just saying it's a very fortunate turn of the lens.

[1317] It was.

[1318] It was a big deal.

[1319] I prayed for it.

[1320] I would walk by the public theater on Lafayette in New York and give the building energy.

[1321] I was like doing anything I could to get to get it.

[1322] To will it.

[1323] Yeah.

[1324] So you got that.

[1325] you did that play?

[1326] I did that play.

[1327] It was, it was, um, and the other thing that was really cool about it was all those people and was only in a 300 seat theater at the public.

[1328] And that was really a great experience because, um, there was some great actors in it.

[1329] And, and Leahv in particular, is one of the greatest American theater actors.

[1330] There is.

[1331] So watching him was educational.

[1332] He's also a bull, which I like about him.

[1333] How so?

[1334] He's a beast of a man. He's a strong, fucking Eastern European descent.

[1335] Yeah.

[1336] Badass.

[1337] He's a badass.

[1338] He's such a good actor.

[1339] And if you ever get a chance if you're listening to this.

[1340] We're recording, right?

[1341] No, we're going to hit record in about 10 minutes.

[1342] If you ever get a chance.

[1343] Would you be so pissed if he was like, fuck?

[1344] That's my joke on set all the time.

[1345] They did not hit record.

[1346] We're going to go again.

[1347] Anyway, he's great to see him theater.

[1348] And I learned a lot from him.

[1349] That was my first job at I was out of school.

[1350] Then I got an indie.

[1351] Greg Berlani cast me in an indie movie about gay boys.

[1352] Okay.

[1353] And you were one of the gay boys.

[1354] I was one of the gay boys.

[1355] Tim Oliphon and, uh, and, uh, who I love him too.

[1356] Love Tim Alifon.

[1357] Did you make out with boys?

[1358] I was in I applied that I had gay sex on ketamine.

[1359] Special K. Special K. Cat tranquilizer.

[1360] Yeah.

[1361] It's a great ride.

[1362] Or horse tranquilizer.

[1363] If you want to wake up six hours later and not know what happened.

[1364] I can't recommend it.

[1365] If you like amnesia, you're going to fucking love special K. Well, my character in the piece.

[1366] Oh, Jesus.

[1367] Okay.

[1368] Don't you hate it when actors say my piece?

[1369] The piece?

[1370] I'm particularly.

[1371] Or you know what I hate it when actors go, when the actors talk about their character in the third person?

[1372] You know what I mean?

[1373] Like, well, she's a very...

[1374] Fake person that doesn't exist so you can stop talking about them.

[1375] Well, let me tell you about Jerry.

[1376] He's...

[1377] Jerry.

[1378] He's so funny.

[1379] Because at first you think, oh, this guy's gorgeous.

[1380] They're describing themselves.

[1381] I just got to love him.

[1382] Like, when they're talking about a third person.

[1383] Like, I just, there's something...

[1384] And then once I found him, I just got to love him.

[1385] Yeah, you have to love the characters you're playing.

[1386] So, yeah, when I played Jeffrey Dahmer, I had to find a way to love him.

[1387] Don't you mean, like, when you have to do those junkets and you have to, You talk for two days.

[1388] Yeah, two days straight and you can never watch it back because the things you said in hour 48, you're like, oh my God, I sound like such a douche.

[1389] Uh -huh.

[1390] Well, my big issue with it is I feel so fraudulent.

[1391] After I answered the exact same question, the exact same way for the fifth time, but I am selling it as if it's the first time.

[1392] I go, you are such a fraud.

[1393] Yeah, it's so fake.

[1394] Everyone's going to see this.

[1395] And you put a giggle in like, oh, there's a funny anecdote.

[1396] I just told 11 other people.

[1397] So you get out to, you have a little theater stand.

[1398] and I don't mean to belittle it by using the word little, but you have a very, very successful ride on Broadway.

[1399] And then what makes you go to California?

[1400] A girl?

[1401] Okay.

[1402] It's always a girl.

[1403] It's always a girl.

[1404] Not in my case, but yeah.

[1405] I went to Sundance with this Greg Berlani movie called The Broken Hearts Club, and there I met a girl that I was just, I was head over heels.

[1406] It was like love at first sight.

[1407] I was infatuated with her.

[1408] Was this Bonnie?

[1409] No, this Bonnie was the next girlfriend.

[1410] My ninth girlfriend.

[1411] No, she was Bonnie was my first girlfriend post.

[1412] this girl.

[1413] Okay.

[1414] And I, she was here.

[1415] I was there.

[1416] I had no money.

[1417] My parents loaned me $5 ,000 to buy a car.

[1418] Mm -hmm.

[1419] And I came out here and bought a Nissan, I used Nissan 240 SX.

[1420] Oh, that's a good pick.

[1421] It was perfect.

[1422] Yeah.

[1423] It's not nerdy.

[1424] It's very dependable.

[1425] I highly recommend that car.

[1426] Real Wheel Drive, very strange configuration.

[1427] And it was stick.

[1428] Yeah.

[1429] Which I love driving.

[1430] Yeah, because it'll give you a little more get up and go with that small engine.

[1431] And it really was a great car.

[1432] Yeah.

[1433] I really approve of that.

[1434] No, I love, I've never had a conversation.

[1435] I know you're very, you're very auto -knowledgeable.

[1436] Yes.

[1437] And I like that you can appreciate the Nissan 240SX.

[1438] I sound like I'm doing an ad for it, but you'd have to find one that was the vintage I had.

[1439] Maybe they'll sponsor us.

[1440] Oh, I would love that.

[1441] Oh, Nissan 240SX only.

[1442] That's only you sponsored by the car that hasn't been made in 20 years.

[1443] It was a great car.

[1444] Yeah, and then they made, not that you care, but then they made a model based on that only available in Japan, which was the high line, something right.

[1445] It doesn't matter.

[1446] It was a big drifting car.

[1447] You know your shit.

[1448] So I moved out here.

[1449] I was waiting tables at a place called Le Colonial.

[1450] It was a French Vietnamese restaurant on the corner of Robertson and Beverly.

[1451] It's now the Laika store.

[1452] Oh, okay.

[1453] You know what that Laika store is on Beverly?

[1454] I don't.

[1455] Okay.

[1456] I never go if you're west of Western.

[1457] Okay.

[1458] Well, if you're in Hollywood and you see a Lika store, well, actually, it's probably the only Lika store in Hollywood.

[1459] That's what, West Hollywood.

[1460] That's what, it was a beautiful restaurant, very fancy.

[1461] This is basically what's in the beginning of.

[1462] Yes, sir.

[1463] Wow, you wove that well, like a good host.

[1464] It is exactly the beginning of Garden State.

[1465] And that was my experience there.

[1466] And to tie it even more beautifully together, the African -American gay man who is yelling at me as my manager is the famous theater director George C. Wolf that I asked to do a cameo.

[1467] Oh, really?

[1468] Oh, that's nice.

[1469] Did you really have to make up while you were serving?

[1470] And I didn't wear an earpiece.

[1471] But we did wear beige tunics.

[1472] And I did get yelled at and they would say, if you're late again, and they would hold up headshots.

[1473] Because something bizarre that happens in Hollywood is people come and they try and get a waiting tables job and their actors, obviously, and they want to show off that I'm cute, you know, so they'll, they drop off their headshot with their resume to try and get the job.

[1474] And so the manager always had this stack of headshots.

[1475] And she would say stuff like, if you're late again, this guy from Duluth, Minnesota is getting your job.

[1476] Who knows gymnastics and karate.

[1477] Yeah.

[1478] Who knows the conversational.

[1479] So how long before arriving?

[1480] been in L .A. before you get scrubs.

[1481] Had you done other pilots?

[1482] Not since I auditioned for so many things and got nothing.

[1483] And I was kind of thinking about like, you know, I was really, I was second guessing the move out here.

[1484] The girl and I broke up.

[1485] Sure.

[1486] And, and I was waiting tables.

[1487] I was in, that movie, the movie that Greg Blaney made with the, with the boys, Broken Arts Club was out at the Sunset Five.

[1488] People would come to the restaurant after the movie and I'd wait on them.

[1489] That's not humiliated.

[1490] And they'd say, we just saw your movie and I'd say, oh, thank you.

[1491] You were great.

[1492] I go, Thank you so much.

[1493] Let me tell you about our specials.

[1494] We have a seared albacore.

[1495] It was so awkward.

[1496] And I would have other experiences where I would like go and like talk to a manager and be like, oh, I got this movie at Sundance and got so much going on.

[1497] And then that night they'd come in and I'd be like waiting on them and like neither one of us would say anything.

[1498] That's nice.

[1499] It's good to have a little humility like that.

[1500] So I did that, I don't know, like probably like a year.

[1501] Okay.

[1502] And then you got scrubs.

[1503] Yeah.

[1504] So you're young when you get scrubs.

[1505] Right.

[1506] How old are you?

[1507] 24 or something?

[1508] Yeah, ish.

[1509] If you had given me, Dak Shepard scrubs at 24, it would have not been a great thing for me. You mean partying was?

[1510] Well, just the attention, the approval, my ego, the money, it would have all been very dangerous for me. How did you manage at 24 being the face on the billboard around town?

[1511] I think it was definitely shocking.

[1512] Did it get away from you at all?

[1513] Yeah, I'm sure there's plenty of, there's people at the time.

[1514] Well, not early on.

[1515] But I think when Garden State, then Garden State hit it's a one -two punch.

[1516] And I had a one -two punch and the ego got.

[1517] I'm sure there's people around that time that would say I was drunk on the Kool -Aid.

[1518] Listen, how can a human not get drunk on the Kool -Aid?

[1519] Well, we've all seen people really drunk on the Kool -Aid.

[1520] And I'm older and wiser now.

[1521] But yeah, at 25, 6 -ish, after the one -two punch of those two, I'm sure I was.

[1522] Because is your mind now, so see, here's what would happen to me. I would, that would happen.

[1523] I'm crushing in TV.

[1524] Then I'd foray into film.

[1525] that's a darling critical.

[1526] Everyone loves it.

[1527] It's successful.

[1528] My, my, the projecting part of my brain would go, I'm going to be directing Godfather in a couple of years.

[1529] I mean, I would just think it's got to just, this, this, this trajectory has to continue.

[1530] Yeah.

[1531] And the only place next is something fucking enormous, right?

[1532] Well, that or down.

[1533] A bomb.

[1534] Did you even think that, though, at the time?

[1535] I hadn't had a bomb yet, so I didn't know what it felt like.

[1536] But again, a human is just gathering data, right?

[1537] And the data you're gathering now can be a little misleading.

[1538] Yeah, the data I was gathering.

[1539] And also, by the way, both were preceded by a zillion notes.

[1540] So I've been auditioning because I was 13 and I hadn't really gotten anything.

[1541] I got a little things as I mentioned, but Scrubs was like, you know, a giant NBC hit.

[1542] Yeah.

[1543] Then everyone in town passed on my movie.

[1544] Everyone said, hell no, hell no, hell no. And then we make it and it goes to Sundance and becomes this mini phenomenon.

[1545] Yeah.

[1546] And so it was a little extra even more so because I was like, you were vindicated.

[1547] I was vindicated.

[1548] Yes, which is a special.

[1549] Very dangerous thing for any of us to be it.

[1550] I think that's what happened to M. Night Shyamalan.

[1551] That's my armchair opinion on that.

[1552] What do you mean?

[1553] Well, I imagine that he, as all directors do, they fight a lot of battles to get the movie made they want to get made.

[1554] And then when it turns out to be six cents, you no longer have to listen to anyone.

[1555] And that's not a great place for any of us to be.

[1556] That's very wise, I think.

[1557] I think I quickly didn't have that experience for long because then I made a movie I was so proud of and it didn't do well.

[1558] And it was the last kiss.

[1559] Oh, but you didn't direct that movie, did you?

[1560] No, a lot of people think I did, but I didn't.

[1561] I didn't think that.

[1562] It doesn't have the signature ZB fingerprint.

[1563] Tony Goldman directed it.

[1564] I did do some writing up.

[1565] Paul Haggis, it was an Italian adaptation.

[1566] Paul Haggis did the adaptation before he was Paul Haggis.

[1567] And Tony Goldman directed it.

[1568] I did the soundtrack and I was the lead.

[1569] And I really believed in it.

[1570] And it was my first bit of humble, big ass piece of humble pie.

[1571] Yeah, that's a unique experience.

[1572] I've had it several times.

[1573] Yeah, it sucks.

[1574] Tell me, yeah, walk me through.

[1575] Walk me through the pain.

[1576] Walk me through Saturday morning.

[1577] Because you know, by Saturday morning you go and you convince yourself in that moment that everyone in the world is aware of your failure, at least I do.

[1578] I had done so much in that movie too because this was right at the beginning of who was your co -star in that?

[1579] The most famous, well, known names were Casey Affleck and Jacinda Barrett and Rachel Billson.

[1580] Yes, so it was you and Rachel Billson.

[1581] And it was a love story between you two.

[1582] And Blythe Danner was in it and Tom.

[1583] Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln, Tom Wilkinson, sorry, Enrique Fermé, Leap Schreiber, with a B. But it's a love story between you and...

[1584] Well, here's the thing.

[1585] It was very, it was one of the most popular movies in Italian cinema history in Italy.

[1586] It was a really honest talk about lust and infidelity, and the Italians could handle it.

[1587] Yeah, Americans don't like infidelity.

[1588] They did not like the...

[1589] We're very puritanical, you find out.

[1590] Well, what we are is, or at least what we were at the time last kiss came out, was, and in fairness, they marketed it as like a romantic comedy.

[1591] But it was a pretty raw look at male lust and infidelity.

[1592] My character cheated on a pregnant, his pregnant girlfriend with Rachel Bilsen.

[1593] Okay.

[1594] And people don't like women don't like that?

[1595] No, no. It's fine.

[1596] It was in our, in just like the Italian version, it was fine to fucking hate the character.

[1597] Sure.

[1598] You were encouraged.

[1599] But in more of an Italian way, they were able to hate their protagonist at the, the time.

[1600] And an American audience was like, thank you for the giant fight I got in with my, with my girlfriend on the way home.

[1601] Yeah, yeah.

[1602] Fucking A. Yeah, I usually, I don't have to pay 15 bucks to fight my wife.

[1603] This wasn't a love story where you walk off with Natalie Portman.

[1604] This was like a gritty, horrible conversation on lust and infidelity.

[1605] Thanks a lot.

[1606] Yeah, but, but you hadn't written it and you hadn't directed it.

[1607] So is, or is any part of you at least at that moment, your ego is still salvageable, I imagine, because you're going, okay, so.

[1608] acting wise maybe I can't open that movie but when I do my thing when I write it and I direct it I bet I'm still in the saddle right the term the problem was not a problem but well the conundrum was that I was on scrubs so I didn't really have time to be writing and directing more that is one thing I'm really curious about is that garden state was so successful in so many ways yeah my assumption on the outside was that you had to been given the keys to the kingdom at that point I were but believe it or not and I'm sure you can relate to this they were all the exact same movie They were all like, if you want to make a movie about a guy who comes home for a funeral, here's 35.

[1609] I really remember one having a plane crash.

[1610] And it was literally like, same movie.

[1611] And it's because I was, I was contracted to be on the show and the show was really doing well.

[1612] So I did.

[1613] You guys did a lot, like 24 episodes a year or something.

[1614] 22 -ish and for nine years.

[1615] Right.

[1616] Whereas Garden State had been locked and loaded and ready to go, like set up one year, shot the next year, released.

[1617] You know, it had all been strategically done.

[1618] We're starting from scratch on something like that.

[1619] Getting something off the ground.

[1620] I could never, I suppose I could have.

[1621] I just could never find my footing with it.

[1622] And could you feel in that moment?

[1623] Like I tried to adapt something.

[1624] I had this adaptation I did, I was working on.

[1625] And I had plenty that I was trying to get set up and I would get them set up.

[1626] I, you know, I once had this movie that was an adaptation of a Danish film.

[1627] And I at one point had Sean Penn and Michelle Williams in it.

[1628] It was all.

[1629] Jesus.

[1630] It was all happening.

[1631] And then, of course, like so many of these do it all fell apart.

[1632] And so it was, and could you feel the clock ticking like, oh man, the further I get away from Garden State, the less easy this is going to get.

[1633] Of course, because in this town, there isn't much interest in what you did two years ago.

[1634] No, no. No. That's true.

[1635] That's absolutely true.

[1636] So I was aware of that.

[1637] But thank God.

[1638] And I was lucky enough to be on this popular show.

[1639] Yeah.

[1640] So I mean, it's not like I was.

[1641] No, you're like a safety net was pretty goddamn nice.

[1642] Well, yeah.

[1643] And I loved the show.

[1644] I mean, I wasn't trying to escape.

[1645] the show.

[1646] I loved the show, but I was a little bit mind -fucked and kind of tangled in knots about how to how to make another movie that I'd written.

[1647] And did you have, did you have any fear of like, you know, it's like a band that makes a great first album?

[1648] Of course.

[1649] They've been writing that album their whole life and then they have a year to make the next one.

[1650] Of course.

[1651] Well, that's kind of what happened when I finally did make my sophomore effort was wish I was here.

[1652] And, you know, I felt, I felt it was totally a sophomore album kind of thing.

[1653] In that you're trying to, in a very different era, make something that has a lot of what people liked about what was working.

[1654] Connective tissue.

[1655] Connective tissue, but also say, hey, it's this many years later.

[1656] I'm going to make something.

[1657] I'm older.

[1658] The audience is what audience is like is different.

[1659] I would like, and I'd like to bring in more people to this fold.

[1660] And I just try to do a dance of, of all of that.

[1661] And I think tripped on myself.

[1662] Yeah.

[1663] So I have to imagine, there's a ton of comfort like chips did poorly, financially, but I can walk away going, I did make the movie I was dying to see.

[1664] And that really helps.

[1665] That helps the blow.

[1666] For me. So did you walk away from?

[1667] From which I was here, I did.

[1668] Well, I was very, I was really bummed about it because it did not do well.

[1669] And critics did not like it.

[1670] No. But I, and I can understand some of the critique of it.

[1671] But I definitely felt like you just said about chips.

[1672] Like I feel if I had nothing to do with that, I would love it.

[1673] That's all you can do.

[1674] greatest thing ever happened to me. Can I tell you?

[1675] Yeah.

[1676] Larry David came up to me. Okay.

[1677] And a restaurant.

[1678] And I go, oh my God, he's headed towards me. Oh, boy.

[1679] And I, he's a hero of mine.

[1680] Sure.

[1681] Especially when it comes to comedy.

[1682] He's replaced for us.

[1683] The other guy.

[1684] Yeah.

[1685] Who's the name.

[1686] Yeah.

[1687] Yeah.

[1688] Yeah.

[1689] And he goes.

[1690] And I, I got, there's no, there's no inkling in my brain that thinks he's going to know who I am.

[1691] Of course not.

[1692] And he starts to talk to me. And he says, how's your wife, Kristen Bell?

[1693] I wish.

[1694] That ladies and gentlemen was called a callback show.

[1695] Sorry, I couldn't reserve.

[1696] He says, that movie, wish I was here?

[1697] You wrote that?

[1698] Come on.

[1699] And I go, yeah, with my brother Adam, I did.

[1700] He goes, really?

[1701] You wrote that?

[1702] And it was like the nicest thing that came.

[1703] And then he smiled.

[1704] He's like, that was a good movie.

[1705] And he smiled and I was like, you know what?

[1706] Even though no one saw the movie, Larry David liked it.

[1707] And I feel okay.

[1708] Yeah.

[1709] As silly as it is, things like that can help.

[1710] And of all things, he was complimenting the writing of it.

[1711] He wasn't saying anything other than like, you were good in that movie.

[1712] He was like saying, this, this, one of my favorite.

[1713] writers was saying with shock.

[1714] You wrote that?

[1715] Yeah.

[1716] Do you want to hear my one that's just like that?

[1717] Let's brag.

[1718] Yeah, yeah, let's brag to each other.

[1719] Let's brag to each other since we like each other's work.

[1720] Yeah, I, my all -time biggest crush in life is Brad Pitt.

[1721] Me too.

[1722] I just fucking love him.

[1723] Yeah.

[1724] I could go on for hours about it.

[1725] Kristen and I go to the Academy Awards a few years ago and I'm walking back to the seat.

[1726] I've gone pee -pee and as I pass Kristen, she starts pulling really chaotically on my leg.

[1727] And she goes, he's talking to you.

[1728] He's talking to you.

[1729] And I go, what?

[1730] Because my back is to the bro's further down from us.

[1731] I go, what?

[1732] Brad Pitt is talking to you.

[1733] I turn around.

[1734] Brad Pitt is standing up in his row.

[1735] And he goes, we loved your movie.

[1736] And I go, what?

[1737] Because in that moment, I sincerely forgot that I've made hit and run.

[1738] I forget I made a movie.

[1739] And he goes, we love.

[1740] And he makes the heart sign your movie.

[1741] That's amazing.

[1742] And I have never been more elated by something.

[1743] And then I sit down in my seat.

[1744] And you were giddy like a schoolgirl.

[1745] No, you're going to love the punchline of this.

[1746] The second I sit down, the show resumes and it's the in memory.

[1747] How do you say that word?

[1748] In memoriam.

[1749] In memoriam, right?

[1750] I am, I'm smiling ear to ear to the point where Kristen goes, honey, honey, they might cut to us.

[1751] Stop smiling.

[1752] And I'm like, I fucking can.

[1753] Push your face down.

[1754] I'm like going through.

[1755] It's too good to be true.

[1756] I'm thinking he might be talking about Garden State.

[1757] I mean, who knows what's...

[1758] I just can't believe it.

[1759] And then, as we're leaving, we leave early.

[1760] And I just bend down him and I go, I just can't tell you how much that compliment means to me. He goes, buddy, we fucking laughed our asses off about that movie.

[1761] And I was just, yeah, no matter what had happened, after that, I was like, this is a big, big win in my life.

[1762] I love him, too, by the way, in the spirit of things we have in common.

[1763] I feel like he's, I know he, it's weird to say he's underrated because he's not underrated by anyone, but I think that he's so talented.

[1764] He really is.

[1765] And you can't...

[1766] Like seven's one of my favorite.

[1767] Oh my God.

[1768] When he calls her a dingleberry, I just love...

[1769] You remember he calls Gwine Paltrow a dingleberry?

[1770] I don't, but I remember just like how amazing there, that scene with Morgan Freeman at their dinner table.

[1771] Yes, that's what he's called.

[1772] Yeah, that's the moment.

[1773] And he's super embarrassed that the L train's going by and it's really close to the apartment.

[1774] Yeah, and it's just such a...

[1775] I mean, the movie has so many good things in it.

[1776] But that scene was just, he was just so natural and great in that movie.

[1777] And he allowed himself to play really embarrassing, him because he's really eager, right?

[1778] And he goes, no, no, no, this guy's probably at home fucking jerking off in his grandma's underpants.

[1779] And he's such a dork.

[1780] Like, he lets himself be such a dork in that.

[1781] And he's so hot.

[1782] He's so fucking hot.

[1783] I can't stand.

[1784] Yeah.

[1785] I would kiss him sincerely.

[1786] I literally had a picture of him in fight club on my gym wall.

[1787] Mm, it's inspiration.

[1788] Yeah.

[1789] That actually would make me leave the gym.

[1790] I mean, well, that's unobtainable.

[1791] I think I'll just.

[1792] It's been a running joke with my, in my, my trainer.

[1793] or like, I'm just like, I point to his abs and fight club, and he's like, dude, you're going to have to really change your life if you want that.

[1794] Like, that's a lot of work.

[1795] And I'm like, well, can I do like half that?

[1796] So my last garden stay question is, so one thing I was, I was jealous and resentful about you was that you were taking the Dak Shepard role.

[1797] There was no chance for me to work because they already had one in scrubs.

[1798] And then the only thing that ever equalled my love for Brad Pitt is my love for Natalie Portman.

[1799] I had a photo of her on my toolbox.

[1800] I just I thought my heart would fucking tear open when I'd watch her Yeah me too And then you got her in your movie Yeah And I just remember thinking This guy gets hated me I'm lucky I didn't kill me I did I was like He's with my girlfriend Yeah I felt the same way about her Yeah Just walk me through And did you I would have gone into that With just thinking If this movie doesn't wrap With me dating her I have failed Well she was dating Guyelle She could be dating fucking Bert Reynolds.

[1801] Nothing would have convinced me that anything short of dating here would have been a failure.

[1802] I honestly, of course, I had such a crush on her, my whole life.

[1803] I saw her do Diary of Ian Frank on Broadway and during the curtain call, I swear that we made eye contact and I was like, oh, that's it.

[1804] We're in love now.

[1805] That's like getting horny at Schindler's list like the sign fell out of being attracted to Anne Frank.

[1806] Sorry.

[1807] I wasn't, I wasn't horny for Anne Frank.

[1808] I was, I was, she was her acting was so amazing and she was so beautiful.

[1809] And then we probably didn't make eye contact, but she looked at me and I in my mind and I was like, oh, that's it.

[1810] I never told Natalie that story.

[1811] But I never thought that she would say yes.

[1812] When you're having those casting meetings, you say it was always like someone like Natalie Portman.

[1813] It was like, you know, when you're a director, you're always giving archetypes to producers and cast directors and someone in the spirit of Natalie Portman.

[1814] Now, you know, you sort of like do kind of like a Natalie Portman, kind of like a Peter Sarasgard.

[1815] I was, you're going to laugh at this, but I was, doing Shakespeare in the Delacourt Theater in New York City on a hiatus from Scrubs.

[1816] A production of Leibsry.

[1817] A production of 12th night with a lot of cool people.

[1818] And actually, interestingly enough, total side note, the guy who was my scene partner in so many of my scenes was Sterling K. Brown.

[1819] Oh, wow.

[1820] And then he had to drop out of the play because he broke his leg.

[1821] And David Harbour took his part.

[1822] He's my favorite.

[1823] And I, so that was that moment.

[1824] And then my whole career, I've thought, where is Sterling K. Brown?

[1825] That guy is so talented.

[1826] And I remember him, even broke his leg in that production of 12th night.

[1827] And man, why is no one hiring?

[1828] He John Wilkes boost it.

[1829] He figured it out.

[1830] No, he broke his leg on stage.

[1831] No, he didn't break it on stage.

[1832] Oh.

[1833] That's like not jumping from the balcony.

[1834] He was shooting Lincoln.

[1835] No, he didn't shoot Lincoln and jump on the stage.

[1836] Okay, okay.

[1837] Sorry.

[1838] Anyway, that's my, that's my bizarre.

[1839] David Harbour.

[1840] Isn't that encouraging?

[1841] It is because the cream rises to the crop.

[1842] If you're as good as Sterling K. Brown, it may take some time.

[1843] And it might be frustrating as fucking hell.

[1844] But if you're Sterling K. Brown good, you're going to work.

[1845] And you're going to, and you might not be as successful as Sterling K. Brown is currently, but you're going to work.

[1846] Yeah, well, similarly, I came up through the whole groundlings with Melissa McCarthy.

[1847] She never heard of her.

[1848] Good buddies.

[1849] We had a terrible comedy troupe that no one came to see our shows.

[1850] And then she gets Gilmore girls.

[1851] And she's just kind of like the fourth lead.

[1852] She's not doing the things she can do.

[1853] And I'm like, God, this is a weird blessing and a curse.

[1854] because she's good and she's getting a paycheck but God no one even knows and then it happens and it's like oh thank fucking God if she had gone unwitness that would have been tragic so Natalie Portman we love it so I someone tells me or I realized that Natalie was at the same theater the Delacorte theater which is Shakespeare in the Park doing I believe it was the Seagull and it literally been in these same dressing rooms and I thought this is my inn so I sat in the dressing room on it because when it rains and it's Shakespeare in the Park the show's off Okay.

[1855] So you're like roofers.

[1856] You got the day off.

[1857] Yeah.

[1858] So it's raining and where I'm sitting my dressing room going, I'm guessing the show's off.

[1859] This is the time to write my Natalie letter.

[1860] So I write her a very heartfelt letter saying I'm sitting in what was your dressing room at the Delacourt Theater in the middle of Central Park.

[1861] And I wrote this script.

[1862] And I know this biggest long shot in the world, but please read it.

[1863] I would love nothing more than for you to consider it.

[1864] I get it to her and.

[1865] How do you get it to her?

[1866] You know, get it to the right agent.

[1867] I mean, I had an agent at the time.

[1868] I was with, I was with, I was with.

[1869] You've got to woo her agent, right?

[1870] Because a lot of people are writing her letters.

[1871] Right, but I think we were at the same agency.

[1872] Oh, okay.

[1873] And, you know, I was on scrubs already.

[1874] So I think that people were taking my calls.

[1875] Yeah, okay.

[1876] Still, she's like, you know, she's really at that point, too.

[1877] She's like as sweet spot of her career.

[1878] Right.

[1879] Yeah.

[1880] But I also kind of got a sense that she was looking to do something totally opposite than Star Wars.

[1881] Right.

[1882] To offset all that.

[1883] So then that's over.

[1884] I'm back in L. and they said, Natalie wants to meet you for lunch.

[1885] So I met her at, what was that place across?

[1886] Arby's.

[1887] Arby's?

[1888] You met Natalie Foreman at Arby's.

[1889] Natalie wants to meet you at Arby.

[1890] That would be the best story ever told.

[1891] Natalie wants to meet you at Arbys in the back in the back booth.

[1892] She'll be having a roast beef, a double roast beef.

[1893] Yeah, beef and cheddar with extra horsy sauce.

[1894] Are there any Arby's left?

[1895] There is.

[1896] There's one on sunset.

[1897] Yep, on sunset.

[1898] I have a...

[1899] Next to the Home Depot.

[1900] I have an obsession with Arby's, but...

[1901] Yeah, you bring it up a lot.

[1902] I do, and it's been...

[1903] John Stewart used to do a whole thing about Arby's.

[1904] Oh, he did?

[1905] Yeah, I think he hated Arby's.

[1906] I challenged Chuck Norse to a fight at Arby's on a talk show one time, just like into camera while I was shooting something, whatever.

[1907] Doesn't matter.

[1908] Go ahead.

[1909] So she wants to meet you at Arby's.

[1910] What's the name of that restaurant across from the Ivy?

[1911] I think it's gone now, but it was a health food restaurant.

[1912] No idea.

[1913] The news room.

[1914] Oh, newsroom cafe.

[1915] Yes.

[1916] Natalie wants, I think she's a health food food.

[1917] That sounds like her.

[1918] That's, yeah, that's a keeping with my.

[1919] Newsroom on Robertson.

[1920] Yeah.

[1921] And we had a great conversation.

[1922] We hit it off.

[1923] Mm -hmm.

[1924] She couldn't have been sweeter.

[1925] And we just clicked.

[1926] And I said, look, we don't have any frills.

[1927] We're going to make this movie in 25 days.

[1928] I know you're used to fancy your stuff.

[1929] We're not going to have too much fancy stuff.

[1930] But if you're down to do this, I think you'd be amazing.

[1931] And she was driving cross -country with a friend to go to Harvard.

[1932] Wow.

[1933] So she left and she got in the car.

[1934] And I went.

[1935] So sexy, by the way.

[1936] Driving across country to go to Harvard?

[1937] Yeah, just that she decided like at the height to fucking go to Harvard.

[1938] What's more amazing than you're, yeah, you're a beautiful movie star and you're like, you know what, I'm going to take some time off and go to Harvard.

[1939] Yeah, I'm also smart as fuck.

[1940] So I need to also nurture that.

[1941] I got to water that plant.

[1942] So she said, yeah.

[1943] So then I said, oh my goodness, she's driving cross country.

[1944] Am I going to have to wait so long to hear if she says yes or no?

[1945] And like within like a couple of hours, her agent said, she loved the meeting she's in.

[1946] Oh, man. How exciting.

[1947] So that was really cool.

[1948] And then during the filmmaking process, do you fall in love with her?

[1949] Well, first, I mean, you already were, I guess it's a cool story.

[1950] There was a cool story where Peter Sarzgard and we had to, like, we had no time for rehearsal and she was at Harvard.

[1951] So I called Peter Sarzgard and I said, do you want to go up to Harvard with me?

[1952] Because Natalie can't really leave Harvard.

[1953] So, why don't mean you go up to Harvard?

[1954] It's like a Mike Nichols movie now.

[1955] It is.

[1956] And there was, we were talking about those rowers earlier.

[1957] There's like you go up to Harvard.

[1958] It was like those rowers in the river.

[1959] The ripbacks.

[1960] And Natalie, Natalie, Peter Sargeard and I went to, went out and partying at Harvard.

[1961] Oh, how fun.

[1962] And they're the, they don't have fraternies, but they have like these society clubs or something.

[1963] Yeah, social network.

[1964] Yeah, like the social network.

[1965] So we, I remember we were out drinking at those things.

[1966] And then we hung out in her apartment and read through the movie, like sitting like on the floor.

[1967] With buzzes.

[1968] With hangovers.

[1969] Oh, hangovers.

[1970] Or at least I had a hangover.

[1971] I don't know if they did.

[1972] But in there's no point during the process of making the movie, we were like, I'm pretty sure she's fallen in love with me because that would be me. No, no, never once.

[1973] To be honest, I know you.

[1974] want a different answer to this, but I, I, I really was, I couldn't believe, I was so, you're super professional, it sounds like.

[1975] Of course, but also I was so in shock that she said yes.

[1976] Yeah, yeah.

[1977] That I was so professional and so grateful and like holding my heart every time I talked to her.

[1978] Like, I couldn't believe she was there.

[1979] Yeah.

[1980] And she was so cool and zero diva anything.

[1981] And we were, you know, we had no money.

[1982] We made the movie for two and a half million dollars.

[1983] The idea of like, oh, today's the day I make my, my move was not on my radar.

[1984] Well, and look, I'm not, a Doning that you hit on someone that you're directing.

[1985] I'm only wondering, are you guys having fun and clicking to the point where you start thinking, oh, I think she might be in love with me. I knew she was dating Gail, what is it, Gail Garcia at the time.

[1986] I'm not scared of that.

[1987] And he visited set.

[1988] So it wasn't like, bringing on Garcia.

[1989] He's very handsome.

[1990] Yeah.

[1991] If you're into him, you're not into our look.

[1992] I don't know.

[1993] It's not many people I can have a conversation with that where I can say you're not into our look.

[1994] That's true.

[1995] If you're into him.

[1996] There's been numerous times while you're telling stories, and especially if you look up to the corner of your eye to remember something.

[1997] I get a weird scrubs go to a fantasy look like this.

[1998] It's really good.

[1999] I do it's your eyes for me. You're getting lost in your own eyes basically.

[2000] What I am getting is I think I'm looking at myself occasionally.

[2001] Have you gotten it all with me?

[2002] I'm rock hard.

[2003] Don't get me wrong.

[2004] So you're autoerotic.

[2005] That was my last question.

[2006] But I have a couple times got lost when I see your eyes I've seen my own.

[2007] Does that happen to you at all why we've been talking?

[2008] It's trippy, yeah.

[2009] But you have a blonde beard, which I could never grow.

[2010] So I, listen, I'm trying to be respectful of your time.

[2011] And there's only two more things I really want to talk to you about.

[2012] Are you, do you edit these down or is America going to hear this whole thing?

[2013] People listen to two hours.

[2014] God bless them.

[2015] God bless them.

[2016] Yeah.

[2017] Again, just like I say, you can only make the movie you want to see.

[2018] I like podcasts that are two hours.

[2019] I can only make the one I want to hear.

[2020] I feel like you and I could talk for days.

[2021] I do too.

[2022] This has gone very well.

[2023] I literally, I have more things I want to ask you, but I'm going to.

[2024] Ask me anything.

[2025] This is like Reddit AMA.

[2026] Ask me anything.

[2027] I want to tell people, and I pray that they're familiar with this reference, and they're probably not, because it's not everyone's seen it.

[2028] But there's a moment in Sean of the Dead, which is just in a spectacular movie, you would agree?

[2029] Yes, it said, go right, right?

[2030] Yeah, where you've been with this group of characters, there's four or five of them.

[2031] You know them very well, and they're escaping the zombie apocalypse, and then they come across a group that is identical to themselves.

[2032] Do you remember that moment?

[2033] They're like running, and it's exact every archetype is them.

[2034] It's so funny.

[2035] So about 10 years ago, I'm in a restaurant in New York City, and I'm with Mullen Ackerman and a couple other people.

[2036] It's like, boy girl, boy, girl, boy, girl.

[2037] And this restaurant, the way it's laid out is there's booths on one side of the wall and then there's booths on the other side and then there's a walkway in between.

[2038] So it's a mirror image of the booth, right?

[2039] I'm sitting in the middle of the booth with my arms out, a waiter passes.

[2040] And then as the waiter clears frame, I love.

[2041] Lock eyes with you.

[2042] You're in the same exact booth across from me with Bill Lawrence.

[2043] The gender disbursement is identical.

[2044] You're in the middle like I'm in the middle.

[2045] And I want to say that maybe is the first time we actually met face to face.

[2046] I had just had a meeting with Bill Lawrence about doing Fletch.

[2047] So I knew Bill, but I didn't really know you, but we were sitting in mirror.

[2048] Do you remember this?

[2049] Was it Gemma?

[2050] I could tell.

[2051] Was it that?

[2052] It was like a downstairs.

[2053] You went downstairs into the place.

[2054] I vaguely remember.

[2055] Okay.

[2056] It was that moment in Sean of the Dead where I was like, of course, this is the first time I've ever seen this guy.

[2057] Of course, he's eating with the exact same people I'm eating with.

[2058] And of course, we're sitting the exact same in an opposing booths.

[2059] That's funny.

[2060] It was about as surreal as it gets.

[2061] And then I said hi to Bill.

[2062] And then that was really bad.

[2063] That's funny.

[2064] Yeah.

[2065] I wish you would remember that.

[2066] My last question is, because I've never been able to answer this for people.

[2067] And I do get asked this pretty regularly.

[2068] Because I was on the first season of Punk.

[2069] People seem to think I know everything that has.

[2070] happened on punk after I left, which I don't.

[2071] But I get asked all the time, did Zach Braff punch somebody on punked?

[2072] Yeah.

[2073] Do you know I get asked that a lot?

[2074] Of course you don't know that.

[2075] Do you get asked that a lot?

[2076] Yeah, because I, it's, it's, I want to start with did you punch somebody?

[2077] No. I tried to.

[2078] Okay.

[2079] That's honest, I think.

[2080] It's approaching honesty.

[2081] Well, there's two categories of people.

[2082] Okay.

[2083] There's people when you.

[2084] just got a brand new car and you've learned that a teenager has tagged and ruined the brand new car in this case it was the car that was on a poster in your wall when you were a kid yeah a Porsche 9 -11 4S uh -huh and there's people that would go fuck you man uh -huh and there's the second group of it was to go fuck you man and then try and punch the person okay great i'm in that latter category yeah so i tried to but i but i was i was just i was scream i was so you're I was seeing red.

[2085] I was seeing red and I was held back.

[2086] Uh -huh.

[2087] Okay.

[2088] Who were you held back by?

[2089] By Donald Faison.

[2090] I went on a talk show and sort of exaggerated the story because he, on punked, you know, they like to use 18 -year -olds that looked young.

[2091] Yes.

[2092] Yes.

[2093] And I told the sort of exaggerated, funny version of this story.

[2094] So then it became a bit of a meme like Zach Braff punched a kid on on punked.

[2095] Okay.

[2096] But if you Google it, he was an 18 -year -old.

[2097] Sure.

[2098] I never landed a punch on him.

[2099] Okay, great.

[2100] I was just wanted to kill him.

[2101] Yeah.

[2102] Okay, well, great.

[2103] That clears things up.

[2104] And I feel like I can relay that now to people who ask me, which, again, it happens more often than you would think it does.

[2105] They ask you because we look alike.

[2106] No, just the punk thing.

[2107] Oh, because you worked on puns.

[2108] Because I was on punked, yeah.

[2109] No, they legit convinced me that they had ruined my brand new car.

[2110] And they got me mad.

[2111] Yeah, yeah.

[2112] And at this age, you probably would go, this fucking blows.

[2113] I have insurance.

[2114] I don't want to lose my money by punching somebody, right?

[2115] Right, but I wouldn't.

[2116] You were 28 then as well, right?

[2117] I never had anything luxurious in my life.

[2118] But I had this brand new Porsche I was so proud of.

[2119] It literally was the picture of my wall when I was a kid.

[2120] Yeah.

[2121] And what are your trappings?

[2122] Like what, is that at cars where you're a suck?

[2123] Because you had a fucking sweet R8.

[2124] I don't want to put you on blast, but you have perfect color too.

[2125] Really good selection.

[2126] I like cars, yeah.

[2127] Yeah, yeah, it's great.

[2128] Do you have more than one car?

[2129] I did have a 9 -11 for us for a long time.

[2130] I just got rid of it.

[2131] Okay, so you're just down to the R8.

[2132] I'm just down to the R8, yeah.

[2133] And if you have to go on.

[2134] I'm not like a collector like you.

[2135] Right.

[2136] Yeah.

[2137] I want all the cars.

[2138] It could never end.

[2139] I'll be driving a new car home and I'll be thinking of another car I want.

[2140] So imagine your car had been tagged by an 18 -year -old.

[2141] Yeah, you would freak out.

[2142] Oh, I would.

[2143] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2144] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2145] It would have gone very bad.

[2146] It would have, it would have not been good.

[2147] So, yeah, I'm not the least bit judgmental of your reaction.

[2148] Well, no, I don't, I don't think I should have acted like that.

[2149] But I still went, I still went, fuck it, unfallible.

[2150] I'll sign the Ashton -Cutcher contract.

[2151] I was like, all right, I look like an asshole.

[2152] It's okay.

[2153] Yeah, that was, that's good.

[2154] I like that about you.

[2155] Well, I mean, there's plenty of people that, as you know, that didn't sign.

[2156] Because they felt they'd look like an idiot.

[2157] And I definitely went, all right, I looked like a douche.

[2158] But you know what?

[2159] Fuck it.

[2160] I deserve to look like a douche.

[2161] I applaud that.

[2162] I really do.

[2163] Yeah, it would probably be hard for me to sign that.

[2164] I think it's good for people to be called out when they're, when they've been a douche.

[2165] And I, he got me, they got me good.

[2166] So I was like, all right, fucking Ashton.

[2167] Here you go.

[2168] Here's my signature area.

[2169] You won this round.

[2170] You won this round.

[2171] Ashton.

[2172] You should just tag his car.

[2173] You know, it's funny.

[2174] But do it for real.

[2175] I realized a little bit towards the end of it that it was fake.

[2176] That the punk thing was fake.

[2177] Uh -huh.

[2178] Because they were acting weird.

[2179] They were getting a little too crazy with their performance.

[2180] Yes.

[2181] And so then I had a sort of a eureka moment and I reached down in the car and with my thumb, I just went like that on the fake, on the paint and it came off.

[2182] Like it was like that stuff teenagers put on their cars at prom.

[2183] Yes.

[2184] And I went, oh.

[2185] And then I went, okay, there's two routes here.

[2186] Yes.

[2187] There's call this whole thing off as bullshit.

[2188] their whole production.

[2189] But as a director, I was like, oh my God, they've spent so much money on this.

[2190] Yes.

[2191] And they hired these actors and there's a lot of choreography.

[2192] I mean, it was an elaborate production.

[2193] Yes.

[2194] And I remember having that thought.

[2195] And then I went, all right, and you just yelled at these teenagers.

[2196] You looked like such a douche.

[2197] Yeah, yeah.

[2198] And then.

[2199] Oh, wow.

[2200] This is a very peculiar situation to find yourself.

[2201] So what are you doing?

[2202] Because my conscience for production Yes, exactly.

[2203] Was like, don't blow their fucking.

[2204] and budget by being like, Ashton, fuck you and give fingers to the fucking vans that you now see.

[2205] Yes.

[2206] And you necessarily noticing, oh, there's a lot of mirrors around.

[2207] Oh, yeah.

[2208] The second you have the eureka moment, it's like a diphthy.

[2209] It's like those scenes in the movies.

[2210] It's like Kaiser Sosei being like, you know, like, oh, oh, yeah, insert, insert.

[2211] So I saw the vans and I saw all these people that were not acting.

[2212] Cables in the ground.

[2213] It was the most well -lit fucking parking lot in Hollywood.

[2214] And I was like, where did Donald go?

[2215] Because Donald disappeared.

[2216] Another funny story about punk that that never gets told is that, you know, they shot a whole thing when we're in the liquor store.

[2217] We walk in and Donald is the accomplice, right?

[2218] So we walk in and the first thing we see is this giant rack of porn magazines.

[2219] And I go to Donald like, you know, I like, I pointed some girl.

[2220] Like, oh my God, look at this girl.

[2221] And he was, man, you know, I don't look at that.

[2222] Ah, ha.

[2223] And I'm like, since when do you not look at that?

[2224] He'd be a guy with 26 kids.

[2225] What are you talking about?

[2226] So then my brow kind of furrowed.

[2227] I was like, what the fuck's going on?

[2228] And then he goes, because we were there to get beer because we were playing poker.

[2229] We had a poker night at his house.

[2230] We were there to get beer.

[2231] And he was walking kind of strutting around the liquor store.

[2232] And he goes, should we get some crystal?

[2233] Oh.

[2234] And I'm like, crystal.

[2235] When do you drink since when do you drink crystal?

[2236] Oh, my God.

[2237] You don't drink.

[2238] Clue, clue, clue.

[2239] You don't drink crystal?

[2240] Yeah.

[2241] So he's like, you know, I love Cristal.

[2242] I'm like, why are you strutting?

[2243] You're like strutting through the aisles.

[2244] Yeah.

[2245] Like, kind of like, I was ridiculous.

[2246] He code switched on you a little bit.

[2247] Yeah, he didn't, he didn't handle it right.

[2248] And then when we get out there and, and, and, and I'm fucking screaming at these kids, he disappears.

[2249] Oh.

[2250] So then I was, that's when, that's when, that's when, that's when, that was another clue when I was doing.

[2251] Yeah, because he would have been, you guys are very good friends.

[2252] Oh, he's my best friend.

[2253] By the way, I said 20.

[2254] 27 kids, I just want to clear up.

[2255] I think that he is one of the greatest guys ever met him a bunch of times.

[2256] He literally has a ton of kids, you can make the joke.

[2257] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2258] But anyway, so that was another clue.

[2259] He was like, well, where did he, where did Donald go?

[2260] Why would Donald have left?

[2261] He'd pop that crystal.

[2262] Duh.

[2263] And burn all those porno mags.

[2264] He was burning the porno mags so no one could appreciate them and then pouring crystal on the fire.

[2265] Oh boy, that's great.

[2266] Well, listen, Zach, as I was about, to say I do you've said it all we were yes you've said it all I do think we are positioned to dislike one another I don't think I never felt that oh you're saying that we're positioned to you position to because we look alike and people are constantly saying we look alike that could easily lead to like well no I don't fuck that guy will you consider going blonder yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you're going it out I can't do anything what am I going to do say that we could get some high and low lights in there if you could look more like that that picture Well, I'm also fucking 31 in that picture.

[2267] I'm 43 now.

[2268] It should be going gray soon enough.

[2269] That'll help.

[2270] All my beard is totally gray.

[2271] Yours hasn't gone gray yet.

[2272] I have a couple streaks.

[2273] Do you find that after you direct a movie, you have more grays?

[2274] It's so great you just said that because after Chips, Chris and I went to go look at a house.

[2275] We look at this house.

[2276] We get back in the car.

[2277] The sunroof happened to be open.

[2278] I glanced in the rear view mirror to go in reverse and I go, oh, my fucking God.

[2279] I didn't have a single gray hair.

[2280] and all of a sudden I had about a hundred gray hairs in the top of my head.

[2281] It really fucking aged me. That's something that happened.

[2282] I mean, it's funny if you look at Obama like two months after the inauguration, he's like full gray.

[2283] But it's like they showed him the secret shit and he went like gray overnight.

[2284] But I feel noticeably after I've directed three movies now and after each one, my beard has gotten, now it's almost all gray.

[2285] Yeah, I didn't notice anything after the second, but after chips I was, yeah, full gray.

[2286] The stress full ages you.

[2287] It really does.

[2288] And it's not the stress of it.

[2289] shooting for me it's like when you then get back into that editing room it's time to make something out of it that's where to me it's the stress of everything like try not disappoint everyone and and everything the burden of all this money that that you have on your shoulders this huge crew you have on your shoulders studio you don't want to let down the fans you don't let down it's like I just go gray and there's only one person to point to I know and there's no one else's fault oh poor us boohoo uh no I'm not saying that at all I'm just saying it's we're blessed to be able to do it but fuck it's a lot of pressure and Every aspiring filmmaker out there, I'm sure knows that.

[2290] It's all on your shoulders.

[2291] Yeah.

[2292] You get all the glory and then you take out all the glory and you get all.

[2293] When it bombs, it's all your fault.

[2294] Occasionally I'd be braddy, right?

[2295] I'd come home and I'd be like lamenting about whether or not they shorten my post period or whatever thing I was kind of lamenting about.

[2296] And then I would say out loud like, yeah, it's the job everyone wants.

[2297] So of course it's fucking hard.

[2298] It wouldn't be the job everyone wanted if it was a cake.

[2299] No, it's an amazing job.

[2300] But it is definitely the most stressful.

[2301] It's the greatest, most wonderful job I could ever dream of doing.

[2302] And it definitely is the most stressful thing I've ever done in my life.

[2303] So before you go, just tell us the name of your show.

[2304] Oh, yeah, it ties into my new show because my show is about a podcast.

[2305] And did you have to become, did you like brush up on podcast?

[2306] You probably know more about it than I do.

[2307] This is my podcast voice.

[2308] Oh, it's great.

[2309] This is how I talk.

[2310] Are you doing a Dax Shepherd?

[2311] This is my Dag Sheppard.

[2312] I'm your expert voice.

[2313] Say it again.

[2314] What's the name?

[2315] It's called Alex Inc. Alex Inc. and saw an ABC on Wednesday the 28th, right, of March.

[2316] Of March.

[2317] And Wednesday is going forward after the Goldberg's at 8 .30.

[2318] Well, that's a good lead in.

[2319] It's very good.

[2320] Yeah.

[2321] And it's a true story of a guy who had a very popular podcast called Startup, Alex Blumberg.

[2322] And he documented, he wanted to start a business and he knew nothing about starting a business.

[2323] So he documented like a reality show, his whole life of leaving his job with his wife and kids and starting this business.

[2324] this.

[2325] And his company became very successful and became Gimlet Media, which is a podcast.

[2326] Oh, wow.

[2327] Yeah.

[2328] Yeah.

[2329] We know Gimlet.

[2330] So it's his story.

[2331] We optioned the rights to, to season one of startup and turned it into a show about a family and starting a business.

[2332] Did you direct the pilot?

[2333] Yeah.

[2334] I directed four of the 10.

[2335] We made 10 of them and I directed four of the 10.

[2336] Yeah.

[2337] And did you love it?

[2338] I love it.

[2339] Yeah.

[2340] It's so what I love most doing, I realize is, you know, I had to, when Scrubs was over, I had to take a break because I was totally burn out and then I've loved so much of what I've done but well the thing I get the most pleasure out of is like going half hour comedy riffing working with great writers doing it in that insane five day schedule where you're just cranking it out so fast I like that and and you're delirious so you're making up weird even weird or shit on set I think it's really funny and really quick technical question do you do you cross shoot at single cam we don't we cross shoot when we're a time and sometimes with the kids, we do that.

[2341] But I try and I feel like the lighting and the cinematography and the style will always be better if I have the time to shoot it.

[2342] Did you ever see Parenthood?

[2343] No. You should watch an episode or two of that.

[2344] It's entirely cross shot and three camera and it looks amazing.

[2345] So there's some DEPs that do it.

[2346] And then your life is half as long.

[2347] Yeah, handheld.

[2348] See, that's the thing.

[2349] We're not here now.

[2350] Well, we do, dolly.

[2351] Well, the camera's a character.

[2352] I mean, obviously, if it's handheld as a character too, but we're not doing that sort of it's a fake documentary.

[2353] Right.

[2354] Well, there's some middle ground, Zach, between.

[2355] I don't mean, I don't mean to say that.

[2356] All you parenthood people, don't send me a hate mail.

[2357] I hear it's amazing.

[2358] You just invigorated and mobilized.

[2359] I love the handheld documentary style guys.

[2360] No, but when you're, it's way easier across shoot when you're doing that style, obviously.

[2361] Yes.

[2362] By the way, because I haven't watched the show, but no, it is loved by many.

[2363] It was inspired by the movie, right?

[2364] It is.

[2365] Yeah, yeah.

[2366] I loved the movie.

[2367] Oh, the movie's fantastic.

[2368] Did you ever see Friday Night Lights?

[2369] Did you like that show?

[2370] I never saw anything.

[2371] Oh, my God.

[2372] Are you missing the boat?

[2373] Like, I'm not offended.

[2374] You didn't watch Parenthood, but I'm very offended.

[2375] You haven't watched Friday Night Live.

[2376] So I should watch Friday Night Lights.

[2377] Yeah, that shows unbelievable.

[2378] And that's Jason Cadens, who also then did Parenthood.

[2379] But the movie was the jumping off point.

[2380] The movie was.

[2381] And Berg, Pete Berg did both the movie.

[2382] No, I mean Parenthood.

[2383] Oh, yes.

[2384] He didn't direct Parenthood.

[2385] He doesn't want it, Tom.

[2386] He would have been very young.

[2387] Yeah, Ron Howard directed Parenthood.

[2388] Who directed the pilot for Parenthood?

[2389] Tommy Shlomi.

[2390] Oh, that's fancy.

[2391] Yeah, he's fancy.

[2392] Yeah, he's the greatest.

[2393] What a name, right?

[2394] I've been watching the Ron Howard Masterclass.

[2395] Oh, I've been wanting to check that out.

[2396] Is it great?

[2397] It's interesting.

[2398] I've never watched a master class before.

[2399] Nor have I. But when I saw Ron Howard, who I've been a fan up for many years, did one.

[2400] I thought it could be interesting.

[2401] Yeah.

[2402] And you can always continue to learn from great masters.

[2403] Absolutely.

[2404] I feel like I'm doing an ad for masterclass.

[2405] You guys should get money from them.

[2406] So check out the Ron Howard Masterclass.

[2407] Get in your 240 ZX.

[2408] Do you audition for voiceover work?

[2409] I used to a bunch.

[2410] Oh, but now you're in commercials.

[2411] You're on Samsung commercials.

[2412] Well, I was, yeah.

[2413] I've always wanted one of those voiceover campaigns big time.

[2414] The audition for them never got them.

[2415] My problem is I live with someone who's one of the best in the entire world at voiceover.

[2416] So by comparison, I feel completely inept and terrible at it.

[2417] Right, but you have a good voice.

[2418] I've done a bunch of them.

[2419] You have?

[2420] Yeah.

[2421] Do you remember the Cottonell toilet paper puppy?

[2422] No. It was a really, that was you?

[2423] Yeah, it was a really cute golden retriever puppy.

[2424] Yeah, it's the best secret source of income in the world.

[2425] And also, do you remember pure water filters?

[2426] Absolutely.

[2427] That's you.

[2428] Hey, do it for me. Hey, it's me. Water.

[2429] That's what you would say.

[2430] Do you remember that?

[2431] Yeah, absolutely.

[2432] And it'd be like this piano music.

[2433] But I didn't connect it to you, which is weird.

[2434] It's me. Water.

[2435] And then the cotton hell probably was like.

[2436] No disrespect to you, but I feel like anyone could have done that.

[2437] Would you agree?

[2438] Because you just go, hey.

[2439] Hey.

[2440] Hey.

[2441] Hey, it's me. Hey, it's me. thing that.

[2442] Upper register.

[2443] Well, I was also, I was also, you know, turns out you couldn't have done it.

[2444] I was making the copy work.

[2445] Okay.

[2446] Sure, sure, sure.

[2447] And then I was, um, the Cotonel toilet paper puppy who was sort of like, being soft has its advantages and disadvantages.

[2448] Oh, so you did a full character voice.

[2449] Oh, yeah.

[2450] Okay.

[2451] Well, I do character voices too.

[2452] I was Chicken Little.

[2453] Oh, that's right.

[2454] You never asked me by my work on as Chicken Little.

[2455] Well, you know what I know about Chicken Little is it fucking eviscerated my movies at Thura.

[2456] We came out.

[2457] out four days after chicken little everyone's going oh this chicken little movie it's not going to be big don't worry this is a great date and the chicken little was a juggernaut.

[2458] Yeah well that wasn't my fault I didn't direct that I was just a voice still like you don't blame don't blame it on me, Dak Shepard No no no the best movie I was ever in it tanked largely because of you Hey but it got John Favreau on that interesting track didn't it?

[2459] It really did yeah I can ask you how did John Favro By the way have you ever seen Made Oh yeah absolutely His best movies that I don't know if anyone has seen besides hardcore John Favro fans.

[2460] Very few people saw it, but I'll tell you the really fascinating thing about Maid I find is that the first time I saw it, I hated it because I hated Vince in it.

[2461] Because, and this is the power of story, he was so frequently foiling everything they were trying to do that I couldn't enjoy it.

[2462] Like I wanted them to succeed, but he was Favro's character, or not Favro, Vince Fon's character in it is such a bumbling idiot, right?

[2463] then I'm afraid that he's going to fuck up everything.

[2464] I saw it.

[2465] I'm like, I don't think I like it.

[2466] Watched it again on an airplane.

[2467] Now I know everything turns out right.

[2468] And I'm like, oh my God, that's Vince Vaughn's best role of all time.

[2469] And I loved it.

[2470] And it's so crazy how something can turn like that.

[2471] Once you know everything's going to be okay.

[2472] I loved it because for me, he was trying to thread the needle and do something so hard, which was match the magic of swingers.

[2473] But make a different movie.

[2474] And I was like.

[2475] With the same two lead characters.

[2476] And both playing the same sort of foil for each other.

[2477] And I'm like, how?

[2478] That's impossible.

[2479] Like, and I, then I, but I went, oh my God, he did it.

[2480] I love this movie in its own way.

[2481] Yeah.

[2482] Anyway, I always wanted to ask John, even though I only know him as an acquaintance, how he then went from Maid to Zathur.

[2483] No, he went to Al. To what?

[2484] Elf.

[2485] Oh, Elf.

[2486] That's the step in the breakthrough.

[2487] That thing makes $187 million.

[2488] Got it.

[2489] Zero expectations.

[2490] Will Farrell hadn't had a huge hit yet.

[2491] Got it.

[2492] And it's a Will Ferrell vehicle, so they don't really care who directs it.

[2493] So, you know, it's a great thing to hop on to.

[2494] And then he makes it's much better than it should have been.

[2495] Right.

[2496] And then he could make any movie wanted.

[2497] Then he made Zithara.

[2498] And then I think he demonstrated he could do things with effects.

[2499] Everything was practical.

[2500] And that got him into Marvel World.

[2501] Yeah.

[2502] And he's, did you see fucking Jungle Book?

[2503] Yeah.

[2504] It's amazing.

[2505] It's unreal.

[2506] It's really cool.

[2507] I actually went.

[2508] How would you feel about a movie like that?

[2509] I couldn't do it.

[2510] The attention span for three years.

[2511] During the one conversation, one of the only conversations of a habit of them, he said, I was at this fancy director dinner with him and, Sam Ramey and Damien Chiselle.

[2512] It was a birthday party for someone, but we're all sitting around the table talking.

[2513] And it was before, it was while he was making that movie.

[2514] And he said, basically, the movie's been made.

[2515] And now for a year, I will approve effect shots.

[2516] And I thought, that is so interesting and cool.

[2517] I don't know if, and I'm, and fucking A, are you good at it?

[2518] I don't know if I could do that.

[2519] Well, and also he makes the movie four times.

[2520] So there's a line sketch, version of the movie.

[2521] Then there's a pre -vis version of the movie.

[2522] Then there's a more detailed version.

[2523] And then they go and shoot the movie with the actors.

[2524] So he does make it three or four times.

[2525] Right.

[2526] Which again, that level of interest in something I think is beyond me for that duration.

[2527] I hear you.

[2528] And also I would think that what the cool thing about that is by the time, and obviously this is what Disney does so well is by the time, by the time that movie comes out, it better be good.

[2529] Oh, yes.

[2530] Because you spent $9 million on it, but also you've made it a bunch times and you've had it because when I was in chicken little I remember we would they would do there were line drawing versions of the movie that while you're making why you're doing the voice and and they for years yeah and then they'd re I mean I know this is longer than jungle book but for for like a 3D animated movie then then they would rewrite the movie as we were as we were as we were as we were as they were animating it yeah so you work on it for you for writing it for years whereas where we write a script and we're like all right let's make it or not and that's what it is yeah well I directed Scooby -Doo for a year, the animated movie, and it wasn't for me. It's, the process is so slow.

[2531] You can't really, for me, maybe other people, certainly Fabro can do it.

[2532] You know, there's so many layers between you and the product that, you know, the illustrators are such a unique thing.

[2533] And they're your actors, basically, and learning how to talk to them.

[2534] And yeah, it's, yeah, it was, it was, I loved the opportunity.

[2535] But I, at the end of it, I was like, this is not what I'm good at.

[2536] I excel best when I get there and we find out we don't have our location.

[2537] And I'm like, how do I salvage?

[2538] I'm a great on the day salvage person.

[2539] But yeah, anywho.

[2540] Anywho.

[2541] You've said it all.

[2542] We've said it all.

[2543] Thank you for having me. Yes, thanks for.

[2544] This was a lot of fun.

[2545] It was like a therapy session.

[2546] I feel like that's the goal.

[2547] I'm a little concerned because I do have to pee and there's no door on the toilet.

[2548] Yeah, we don't need one.

[2549] Now, what's going to happen while I, is everyone going to hang out while I pee?

[2550] Uh -huh.

[2551] I feel like this lovely woman should probably leave.

[2552] We'll step out.

[2553] Not only am I going to stay.

[2554] You want to know if my stream is as good as yours.

[2555] And I'm going to try to then build a mental picture of your penis based on how thick and ropy I think you're your stream.

[2556] Ropee.

[2557] No one wants to hear the term rope.

[2558] How about that?

[2559] The gauge.

[2560] I'll try to determine the gauge.

[2561] I can also go in the yard if you'd prefer.

[2562] I have a porta potty in the yard.

[2563] I don't want to use the porta potty.

[2564] Okay.

[2565] Well, we're going to step out and you can use the toilet.

[2566] Thank you so much for coming.

[2567] Thank you.

[2568] You're a wonderful guest.

[2569] Bye, everybody.

[2570] Stay tuned.

[2571] like to hear my good friend and producer Monica Padman point out the many errors in the podcast you just heard.

[2572] Monica, are you prepared?

[2573] I see you banging on your computer.

[2574] Always prepared.

[2575] Reckless abandon.

[2576] You're very hard on that thing.

[2577] I get angry.

[2578] I have to let my aggression out somewhere.

[2579] Yeah.

[2580] Is it fair to say that you have a little brat streak?

[2581] You want me to say that.

[2582] Wow.

[2583] And I do.

[2584] Yeah, yeah, good, good, good.

[2585] I sure do.

[2586] My parents would say so.

[2587] Yes.

[2588] Whenever Monica travels home.

[2589] For an extended period of time, and she comes back, and I ask her for kind of a progress report.

[2590] There's always a couple dark spots on the week, right?

[2591] Yeah.

[2592] Where you kind of go to your bedroom and stuff.

[2593] Well, okay.

[2594] All right.

[2595] I mean, I don't want to get too intimate.

[2596] Christmas had some bedtime time.

[2597] Right.

[2598] You kind of hit out for a minute in your room.

[2599] Yeah, that was crying.

[2600] And then I put my ear up against the door to hear what everyone was talking about.

[2601] I wish that was a joke.

[2602] That was the best part of the whole story is that you were, You were mad at them, but you were eavesdropping on what they were saying about you.

[2603] I wasn't going to go down there and talk like an adult.

[2604] I'm a kid there.

[2605] That's right.

[2606] A little child.

[2607] All right.

[2608] You ready?

[2609] Yeah.

[2610] Hit us.

[2611] Okay.

[2612] So you said Frozen made a billion four.

[2613] Frozen made $1 .276 billion.

[2614] Off by $130 million.

[2615] Which is a lot.

[2616] That's more than a lot of movies make.

[2617] More than any movie I've been on in May. Can you even believe it?

[2618] $1 .276 billion dollars?

[2619] Yeah.

[2620] I don't even think of billion dollars is real.

[2621] That's nothing.

[2622] That's nothing.

[2623] The toys just dwarf that theatrical number.

[2624] That's where it's at, guys.

[2625] Thinking about making a movie, think about the toys, in the outfits, and the merch.

[2626] Yeah.

[2627] Yeah.

[2628] That's what we got to do better out here.

[2629] Merch, by the way.

[2630] We're going to start selling mugs.

[2631] Let's quickly just pitch that idea.

[2632] So some people have expressed some, interest in our armchair expert mugs.

[2633] They're gorgeous Rob came up with it on his own.

[2634] He's got a great aesthetic.

[2635] Beautiful.

[2636] And what Rob did that was weird is that ours are, they're virtually left -handed mugs because you got to hold it in your left -hand for the artwork to be.

[2637] Yes.

[2638] Which works for me because I'm left -handed.

[2639] But we decided if we do order mugs, we'll order them in the correct setup.

[2640] Most people are right -handed.

[2641] And then you had the brilliant idea.

[2642] Go ahead, hit them.

[2643] We're going to sell the left -handed mugs.

[2644] We have about 10.

[2645] Mm -hmm.

[2646] And these are worth a lot because these are the mugs that we use here in the attic, the ones that live by the toilet.

[2647] Yeah.

[2648] And hit them with the price.

[2649] They're going to cost a little extra because they're special.

[2650] So give or take $2 ,000 a mug.

[2651] This is great.

[2652] And the theory behind this is, which was really well articulated by, I think, our friend Troy, I guess Hooters used to offer like a bottle of Dom Pering Yang and some wings or something for some exorbitant price.

[2653] And then it was kind of a talking point.

[2654] So we decided maybe this, no one will ever buy one for 2000, but we'll just advertise them for 2000.

[2655] Just as something fun to talk about.

[2656] Like can you believe those assholes that armchair expert think they can get two grand for a mug?

[2657] Yeah.

[2658] And you know what?

[2659] Someone's going to buy it.

[2660] I hope some.

[2661] And we're going to do something special for these mugs, even extra special.

[2662] Our DNA will be on them.

[2663] Yeah, we're going to use them.

[2664] And then you'll have a little piece of us with you.

[2665] You can really put a price on that.

[2666] Well, you could potentially clone us in the near future.

[2667] Okay, you said Garden State and without a paddle came out within the same summer.

[2668] And they did come out with them.

[2669] Oh, good.

[2670] July and August, 2004.

[2671] The Annie Hall quote, I would never want to be part of any club that would have me as a member.

[2672] Groucho Marx said that.

[2673] Great.

[2674] What did I say the singer Richard Marks?

[2675] You just said.

[2676] One of the Marks brothers.

[2677] And it's Groucho.

[2678] He's good for a quote or two.

[2679] The exact quote is I don't want to belong to any club that would accept me as a member.

[2680] Mm -hmm.

[2681] A little different than the Annie Hall one.

[2682] Mm -hmm.

[2683] Poetic license.

[2684] Correct.

[2685] You said 72 % of women would want to date Justin Timberlake.

[2686] I did?

[2687] Yeah, in reaction to your poll.

[2688] Right, right.

[2689] I couldn't really do any, I couldn't really do any research.

[2690] But I think you're right.

[2691] Yeah.

[2692] And I actually think that's low -balling.

[2693] Probably.

[2694] That's got to be in the high 80s of single.

[2695] 90s.

[2696] 90s for you?

[2697] Although he's starting to age himself out a little bit.

[2698] He's still very relevant.

[2699] He is, yeah, but do you think an 18 -year -old wants to date a 40 -year -old man?

[2700] Yeah.

[2701] If it's him, probably.

[2702] All right.

[2703] You might, right.

[2704] He might transcend age brackets.

[2705] He is in the Super Bowl.

[2706] He will dance his way into any age demo.

[2707] Oh, God, yeah.

[2708] He dances like an 18 -year -old.

[2709] With the agility and the energy of an 18 -year -old.

[2710] Okay, Zach said he's reading an amazing.

[2711] book about breaking habits.

[2712] I'm not sure if this is the exact book, but there is a very popular New York Times bestseller book about breaking habits called The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg, D -U -H -I -G -G.

[2713] Yeah.

[2714] Do -H -H -I -G.

[2715] And I think our friend Jess is reading it currently.

[2716] Oh, that makes sense because they both went to Landmark Forum as well.

[2717] Yeah.

[2718] Let's just skip to Landmark Forum.

[2719] Okay.

[2720] Landmark forum, just for a little context, in case anyone's interested in going to this, which I guess I would recommend because.

[2721] Well, we don't condone or condemn it, right?

[2722] Because we have no experience with it.

[2723] We have no experience, but we have a good friend who had very positive experience there.

[2724] So if you think you are in need of some breakthroughs, sure, try it.

[2725] Okay, great.

[2726] It's a three -day -long course, and then he had mentioned est.

[2727] That stands for Erhard Seminars Training.

[2728] Mm -hmm.

[2729] And it was big in the...

[2730] It's a big storyline in Americans, which we love.

[2731] Yeah, exactly.

[2732] All right.

[2733] So you said Northwestern probably has a good rowing team.

[2734] Mm -hmm.

[2735] And they don't.

[2736] Okay, great.

[2737] Do they not even have a rowing team?

[2738] They do have one.

[2739] Oh, okay.

[2740] But they're not even in the top 20.

[2741] Ugh.

[2742] Yeah, wake us up when you break the top 15.

[2743] Yeah, and you know what's also...

[2744] Harvard is 16th.

[2745] Really?

[2746] Yeah, and they're acting like they're number one on those social network movies.

[2747] They do a great job branding because in my head they're number one.

[2748] I think originally it was like Yale and Harvard and that was the...

[2749] Back when there was five colleges.

[2750] Yeah.

[2751] Okay, which movie does Roblo bang someone's mom?

[2752] This is tricky because in both movies, class and Oxford Blues, he does have sex with an older woman.

[2753] Oh.

[2754] So that's why it's confusing, but it's...

[2755] actually class right that it's his friend's mom his bro's mom uh -huh yeah and it's like revealed oh yeah he doesn't know that when he's sleeping with her like edip at a at a pole like uh what's the shakespearean he sleeps with his you're supposed to know this stuff you study theater can't remember what is it that's not Shakespeare no it's not but but it came someone was told they're banished and you're going to end up sleeping with your mother and killing your father or something, right?

[2756] Which is edible.

[2757] King Lear, Macbeth.

[2758] You don't have to just list all the Shakespeare plays that you know about.

[2759] I was hoping that was some specific.

[2760] That's a comedy.

[2761] Okay, great.

[2762] Onward and upward.

[2763] In Revenge of the Nerds, you said they're screaming, we have muff or we have beaver.

[2764] Bush?

[2765] But it's, we've got Bush.

[2766] Oh, it's Bush.

[2767] Yeah.

[2768] That escaped me on the day, but now I'm remembered.

[2769] We have Bush.

[2770] Okay.

[2771] Okay, much, much classier.

[2772] Got Bush.

[2773] That could have been a bumper sticker, got Bush.

[2774] Like, you got milk.

[2775] I'm glad it wasn't.

[2776] Okay, yeah, yeah.

[2777] We haven't, it's an already enough.

[2778] By the way, just side note, no one can get Bush much anymore.

[2779] It's not, it's out of vogue.

[2780] It's not as popular.

[2781] People aren't, yeah, they're not growing a big bush.

[2782] I wonder if that's.

[2783] To my knowledge, I've been off the market for a long time, but.

[2784] I think it runs the gambit.

[2785] Okay.

[2786] I think some people still.

[2787] Good for.

[2788] them.

[2789] I applaud them.

[2790] So you guys referred to a Shiksa.

[2791] Mm -hmm.

[2792] That's, and then you said, I like that.

[2793] Okay.

[2794] That's a derogatory term.

[2795] Uh -huh.

[2796] But it's, it's from Jewish people against us.

[2797] Me. I included you and Caucasoid Gentiles.

[2798] Yeah, that's fair.

[2799] Yeah, it's a disparaging term for a non -Jewish woman.

[2800] Yeah.

[2801] I like when other groups are making fun of us.

[2802] I embrace it.

[2803] Some of the names are cute, like honky, and Cracker, you know, they almost sound like cartoon characters.

[2804] I can live with that.

[2805] None of them, they've never really been able to hang one on us.

[2806] That is as hurtful as most of the ones we came up with.

[2807] I mean, yeah, Cracker, come on.

[2808] Yeah, Shiksa, sounds like some kind of warrior.

[2809] I know.

[2810] Well, then he called her, he said Shiksa goddess.

[2811] Yeah, you go Shiksa and you'd be like, hey, thanks for the insult.

[2812] They make you feel good.

[2813] You said you got punked when you were 28.

[2814] So the first episode came out in 2003, and you were 28, but, but you probably then got punked when you were 27 at least.

[2815] But that starts bumping up against my claim that I was unemployed for 10 years.

[2816] So my story's not as good when you point that out.

[2817] I'm sorry.

[2818] I have to debunk.

[2819] Okay.

[2820] I must.

[2821] You had a quick meteoric rise.

[2822] I didn't feel like it.

[2823] Okay.

[2824] I'm like scared to do this one.

[2825] Correct.

[2826] I just don't know anything about cars.

[2827] Oh, this is the Nissan.

[2828] Oh, before you say it, I went home that night and I went to sleep and I was like, Skyline.

[2829] was the vehicle I was trying to remember that was only available in Japan.

[2830] You said Highline.

[2831] Yep, it's not Highline.

[2832] It's a skyline.

[2833] Okay.

[2834] Does that clear up what you were about to say?

[2835] Well, not really.

[2836] I couldn't find too much.

[2837] It just said the 240SX is closely related to another S platform -based vehicle, such as the Japanese market Sylvia.

[2838] That's great.

[2839] And 180SX.

[2840] Mm, okay.

[2841] Does that ring any bells?

[2842] No, no, neither did.

[2843] I trust you over me in this case.

[2844] Okay, good.

[2845] But it's the Sylvia.

[2846] Sylvia.

[2847] You said Zach was 24 when he got Scrubs and Scrubs aired in 2001, so he would have been 26.

[2848] But again, he might, uh, everyone's playing fast and loose with their age.

[2849] But I don't think it's intentional.

[2850] I don't think there's any malice.

[2851] Like, I just think generally we don't really know what we're saying.

[2852] Yeah, that's true.

[2853] You guys are so old.

[2854] I understand.

[2855] Right.

[2856] You'll start losing dates pretty soon.

[2857] And then he refers to Kaiser.

[2858] are so say that's from the usual suspects yeah people should know that if they want to watch it great movie great crime twist and terny movie gritty benizio del torro is amazing that's his breakout raw yeah i love him he says you don't fucking king i haven't seen it okay um so he says he flip you he flip you for real he flip you he flip you for real okay okay they did want to i brought the up already.

[2859] Okay.

[2860] I wanted to bring it up publicly.

[2861] Okay.

[2862] Because I think it's a problem.

[2863] Okay.

[2864] That, because masturbation is a through line in this episode.

[2865] Okay.

[2866] It comes up a lot.

[2867] And it's just interesting to me that, that there are many movies of young boys coming of age.

[2868] Choking their chicken.

[2869] Correct.

[2870] Yeah.

[2871] Masturbating.

[2872] And it's fine.

[2873] It's just part of boyhood.

[2874] We do not see enough of girls doing that.

[2875] Right.

[2876] At a young age.

[2877] Right.

[2878] And I suppose if you're a young, lowering their body.

[2879] Girl, you think you're odd.

[2880] Yeah.

[2881] And I can't speak as an authority on this because I've not done any polling.

[2882] But I think two things are true.

[2883] I think one thing is it's always that it's been a patriarchal society for a long, long time and men are afraid of women's sexuality.

[2884] I think because they ultimately are afraid they won't be able to pleasure a woman or that someone else could pleasure her better.

[2885] I think that's what gives rise to all these really crazy massage.

[2886] And so I think one is that just fear of female sexuality and that you won't be able to control a woman, right?

[2887] Or even Freud, he thought, you know, if you were horny or you had hysteria.

[2888] Yeah.

[2889] That's one element of it, I believe.

[2890] Second is all these movies were referencing are written by men, male leads, they're telling their childhood.

[2891] Yes.

[2892] And there's a lot of jerking off going on when you're a young boy.

[2893] But I also would propose that I bet the rate is lower for women.

[2894] I don't think that, I think this chemical that takes over your body testosterone when you're a teenage boy is a stronger chemical than whatever is making females horny.

[2895] I don't know.

[2896] When kids are little, I see no difference in the little kids I'm around.

[2897] The girls and the boys exploring their bodies.

[2898] Pre -puberty.

[2899] Pre -puberty.

[2900] I'm talking puberty jerking off in your teen years.

[2901] Yeah, I know, but I think that is a result of society.

[2902] I can speak on that one point.

[2903] You couldn't have put a wall of fire between me and beating off.

[2904] It was going to happen.

[2905] But the girls still do it, but they're not going to be talking about it.

[2906] They're not pulling out their vaginas in front of their friends.

[2907] That's not acceptable.

[2908] It is totally acceptable for boys to do that.

[2909] Oh, 100%.

[2910] But then you just saying that you think the number is last, you don't know.

[2911] Well, no, I think, no, here's what I do know.

[2912] Evolutionarily, the male species gets to procreate with great fecundity.

[2913] There's no, there's no expense to it.

[2914] So all males in all species can knock up a thousand women if they're capable of that and spread their genes, right?

[2915] So that's been vastly rewarded.

[2916] Whereas there's a huge time commitment for raising a child as a woman.

[2917] You have to proceed a lot differently.

[2918] So that's just a part of our evolution.

[2919] So that's kind of undeniable.

[2920] Yeah.

[2921] So as a result of that, the male hardwiring and the reckless motivation to just procreate and have sex is higher.

[2922] Yes, that is true.

[2923] But I think puberty for both sexes is a...

[2924] Well, let's just get personal.

[2925] I was very personal.

[2926] How often were you masturbating as a teenager?

[2927] Okay.

[2928] This is a good example.

[2929] I don't want to answer that because I feel that makes me really uncomfortable to answer.

[2930] And you feel fine talking about it.

[2931] Right.

[2932] So why don't you break these societal chains and let some young listener out there know that it's just fine to answer?

[2933] Well, obviously, I think that that's the whole reason I brought this up.

[2934] I don't know if everyone needs to know my frequency.

[2935] I just thought maybe we could compare frequency as maybe some data set.

[2936] We could go, oh yeah, it must have been.

[2937] How about this?

[2938] I'll just say yes or not.

[2939] Was it a daily every single day you had to do it?

[2940] No, I don't think so.

[2941] Okay, so for me it was, and I think most boys it is.

[2942] Well, it was when I discovered it, it was.

[2943] When it first happened, you're like, look at this new thing.

[2944] Yeah.

[2945] Okay.

[2946] But then it petered off.

[2947] Yeah, then it petered off.

[2948] But I wasn't like, oh, this is something that everyone does and great.

[2949] I can keep doing this every day.

[2950] Yes.

[2951] And although I agree with you that it's ever present in media, I still felt all this shame about it, as I think a ton of boys did.

[2952] I was trying to quit all the time.

[2953] Like it was a big preoccupation of mine to stop doing this.

[2954] And I don't know why.

[2955] We weren't even in a religious house.

[2956] There's something about it was like you shouldn't be able to feel good on demand.

[2957] Right.

[2958] And I don't know where that comes from.

[2959] Right.

[2960] But I could not resist.

[2961] It was, you know.

[2962] Yeah.

[2963] I just think it's more acceptable for boys.

[2964] 100%.

[2965] And that shouldn't be the case.

[2966] It shouldn't be the case.

[2967] And like all these things, maybe the middle is.

[2968] also true, you know.

[2969] Maybe it's those things plus maybe the drive isn't as intense, but you don't want to concede to that.

[2970] No, that's fine if it's not, but that's not even what we're talking about.

[2971] Okay.

[2972] Who cares if the drive isn't as intense?

[2973] It still should be allowed.

[2974] Oh, absolutely.

[2975] And it should be presented in the same way it is with boys where this is something that happens and it's fine.

[2976] Yeah.

[2977] I agree.

[2978] It may not be as much, but who cares?

[2979] That's not really relevant.

[2980] It's quality over quantity is what you're arguing.

[2981] Well, thank you for bringing this up and thank you for being as honest as you are comfortable with and I apologize if I put you on the spot.

[2982] I just felt like we're we're beating around the bush here where we do have some data in this room.

[2983] We could at least look at anecdotally.

[2984] Yeah.

[2985] Yeah.

[2986] Okay.

[2987] I love you tremendously.

[2988] Me too.

[2989] Good night.

[2990] Good night.

[2991] episode of Armchair Expert Early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2992] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey.