Kelly Slater (11x World Surfing Champion)

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] Experts on expert.

[2] I'm Dan Shepard.

[3] I'm joined by Lily Padman.

[4] Hello.

[5] This episode took us to the far reaches of the globe.

[6] It did.

[7] Into the South Pacific.

[8] To the enchanting island of Hawahoo.

[9] The North Shore, where we sat down with Kelly Slater, the greatest surfer of all time.

[10] Yeah.

[11] A long shot.

[12] This motherfucker has 11 world surf leaps.

[13] league championships holds 56 championship tour victories.

[14] He is the subject, one of many, of a great show that I started watching in anticipation of this interview.

[15] Yeah.

[16] Truly great.

[17] If you love Drive to Survive, which we all do, same folks that make it, make or break on Apple Plus, make or break.

[18] If you go through the first season, it's phenomenal.

[19] You're going to get hooked on surfing.

[20] Yeah.

[21] But first season, I'm like, I want a little more Kelly Slater than the second season hits.

[22] and they give you Kelly Slater right up the wazoo.

[23] Big fat episode one of him in this most improbable victory at Pipeline.

[24] Oh, so awesome.

[25] 50 years old.

[26] It's so incredible.

[27] Super lucky and flattered to get to meet and talk to Kelly Slater.

[28] Very, very cool.

[29] I think you'll hear in our voices in this interview that we are in a total state of stress abatement.

[30] Yes.

[31] We were at the famous Turtle Bay Resort, made famous by, forgetting Sarah Marshall.

[32] Yes, they shot that movie there.

[33] You watched it several times in anticipation.

[34] I did.

[35] I watched it while we were there so I could, you know, eventized.

[36] Live inside of the film.

[37] Exactly.

[38] And man, it's so beautiful there.

[39] Yeah, what an incredible place, Turtle Bay.

[40] Had so much fun.

[41] Please enjoy Kelly Slater.

[42] Wonderly Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[43] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[44] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[45] He's an armchair.

[46] Get some multiple angles, link, okay?

[47] Yeah.

[48] Not too low.

[49] Not too low.

[50] Yeah, be generous.

[51] Be conscious of the fact that he and I are both aging males.

[52] Be productive.

[53] And that I hate most pictures of myself.

[54] Okay, so you haven't heard, which is fine.

[55] It's a podcast.

[56] Are you familiar with those?

[57] Yeah.

[58] Well, we did just have someone on who was not familiar.

[59] Who?

[60] Were they a podcast in general?

[61] She was like, I've never, I don't know about that.

[62] Oh, oh, my God, what time mean?

[63] Pamla Anderson.

[64] You were nervous to say that, weren't you?

[65] A little bit.

[66] Pam's never heard a podcast?

[67] No. And even more specifically, the whole genre of podcasting is elusive to her.

[68] She was like, I don't know what you would call it in France.

[69] Yeah, she didn't like the word.

[70] She's living in France now?

[71] I haven't talked to Pam in like 10 years, so I don't know.

[72] Well, there's a documentary.

[73] I know.

[74] I'm friends with her kids.

[75] Oh, okay.

[76] And I just saw Brandon had posted.

[77] I think they made it with her.

[78] Yeah.

[79] Yeah, so that was cool.

[80] That'll be interesting to see.

[81] I imagine, yeah, for you, I will say, just to alleviate any fears you may have very, very positive towards you.

[82] I mean, we dated and there's weirdness, but we've always remained friends, and that's good.

[83] That's nice that you still talk to her children.

[84] Mm -hmm.

[85] Well, one funny part, I will say, just to talk out of school, but it's fine because it airs on Monday, and we talk about it, and it's great.

[86] When she was referring to Bob, so I want to go to Michigan for Bob.

[87] Yeah, Kid Rock.

[88] She has no clue that Kid Rock's name Bob.

[89] So she's these things, wow, Pamela thinks that everyone knows a guy named Bob in Michigan.

[90] I thought it was like someone who ran a sports team.

[91] That's what in my head I went.

[92] So you're like, she doesn't know anything about our podcast, and she's like, she knows nothing about Kid Rock.

[93] She's assuming.

[94] Well, I know Kid Rock, but I did not know his name was Bob, and now I understand why.

[95] You don't know my name is Bob either, do you?

[96] I didn't.

[97] My first name is Robert.

[98] Wait, is it really?

[99] Yeah.

[100] Oh.

[101] When you start going by your middle name?

[102] My mom never called me Robert.

[103] Kelly from day one.

[104] Okay.

[105] You have how many brothers, two?

[106] Two, older and younger.

[107] How old's the older one?

[108] What's the age gap?

[109] Three years and then six years below me. Okay, I had a brother five years older.

[110] Pretty helpful in ways.

[111] And also a dick?

[112] Yeah, beat the shit out of me hourly.

[113] But again, it sucks while it's happening.

[114] But then when I started wrestling kids my age, I was like, Oh, wow, I'm smoking these guys.

[115] Yes, I'm very powerful.

[116] I thought it was a weakling.

[117] I always point that out that I think my surfing advanced really quickly because, I mean, I played football, baseball, basketball with all the guys that were three years older than me because of my brother.

[118] And I surf with all of them.

[119] So my level was above the kids my age because I had to be.

[120] Well, if you're like me, I was like, I'm the worst skateboarder in the world.

[121] I don't know why I do it.

[122] And then I started doing it with peers in junior high.

[123] And I was like, oh, my, I'm the best one in my junior high now.

[124] I was the worst for the last three years, and now I'm the best.

[125] It's a good feeling.

[126] So you just became a total egomaniac right away.

[127] Yeah, megalomene.

[128] Yeah.

[129] I've even passed the egotomaniap.

[130] But I saw some great footage of you boxing, who I assume was your older brother, in the front yard of your house.

[131] No, that was this bodyboarder guy.

[132] But he seemed to be much older than you.

[133] He wasn't much older, but he was like a foot taller.

[134] Yeah.

[135] I was like my height now, I think, but I hadn't put on any.

[136] I was probably like 140.

[137] And the guy had seemingly a 7 -8 -inch reach advantage.

[138] He had about a 12 -inch of reach advantage.

[139] And he was super agro.

[140] I guess he was not.

[141] Yeah, I've gotten made fun of that in my whole career because I got beat up by a bodyboarder.

[142] You know, and it's like a thing between bodyboarders.

[143] I'll just call him boogie border because they hate being boogie boarders.

[144] No, but there was always a thing being surfers and bodyboarders.

[145] And he had to stand up for the bodyboard community.

[146] But he had this whole stick where he was going to beat my ass.

[147] I thought we were just going to goof around and like patty cake it, you know.

[148] Yeah, yeah.

[149] And I showed up and he's like throwing bombs or overhead rights.

[150] I'm like, whoa, this guy just hit me in the head.

[151] I got a headache now.

[152] Okay, that explains so much, so much of it because I got to say when I was watching it, I thought, if this is your brother and your folks are inside, the rules are different in your house.

[153] What the fuck, hold on, I'm too loud.

[154] Check, check, check, check, check.

[155] I must be one.

[156] Yeah, but I'm one.

[157] So sorry.

[158] We're never out of the studio.

[159] This is the first time we've ever traveled for a guest.

[160] Yeah.

[161] Yeah, you sound perfect.

[162] You've never sounded better.

[163] You fuck with us.

[164] I'm lip -syncing into the mic, right?

[165] My dad told me when he was in school, he had a teacher that had a hearing ape.

[166] And they would read, and they'd be like, and then Mike went to the, and then the dog bit is like, and the guy would start checking his.

[167] Oh, kids are so cruel.

[168] Well, anything's fair with a teacher.

[169] There's zero compassion.

[170] I had a teacher once named Mr. Hicks.

[171] He might as well have been called Mr. Dick because he was just an asshole.

[172] No one liked him.

[173] And my three -year -old brother, he went through all the teachers before I got there.

[174] I was a good student.

[175] I was respectful.

[176] My brother and I had different personalities.

[177] I was like teachers pet my whole life, but I would have to work my way in there.

[178] He put you in a hole.

[179] Oh, I mean, I know where but up to go.

[180] So in a way, it was kind of good.

[181] But we get into Mr. Hicks class, and it was like pre -algebra or algebra in like seventh or eighth grade.

[182] And it was like an advanced placement class.

[183] There was only seven of us in the class.

[184] We get into class the first day He's got a speaker and a lapel mic For seven students And we're like, this guy's an ass I mean, you're gonna make fun of that guy He must have a podcast now Because he must have loved his own voice Yeah, maybe he was a troll And he was doing that just to see how he'd react And now he's like really funny Yeah He's like a stand -up comedian Yeah, back when I was teaching By the way, you probably thought he was 49 and he was probably 27 He was up there in his 40s, I would say, at least But can you be so sure Yes.

[185] Do you know what I'm saying?

[186] When you're little.

[187] When we thought our teachers were so old, but now we realize, no, teachers are like 28 years old.

[188] Because old people were assholes back in the 80s, you know?

[189] Yeah, they were.

[190] They made no apologies.

[191] He thought that he was going to force respect on his classes.

[192] And that's why another kids liked him, because he couldn't earn it.

[193] Yeah.

[194] And he gave me a B for my grade.

[195] I would have had straight A's this one six -week period, and he gave me a B. I had like a 96 % average.

[196] You're kidding.

[197] Yeah.

[198] And I was so pissed about it.

[199] Yeah, yeah, and my mom wouldn't let things like that slide, and she's like, I'm going to go fucking speak to him, you know?

[200] Yeah, yeah.

[201] And she runs in to go speak to him at the school and sits down, he tells her, well, Kelly may have gotten that score, but I subjectively graded him.

[202] And I don't believe he was an A student.

[203] What?

[204] Yeah.

[205] Oh, wow.

[206] Oh, no. Wow, wow.

[207] Drunk on power.

[208] You just couldn't get that respect.

[209] But it dug him deeper in a hole.

[210] Okay, but if we explore some personal responsibility, what possibly might you have been doing that made him.

[211] I think he's going to pun it.

[212] I know right now he's reading his very respectful.

[213] I was probably a little bit of a smart -ass to him, but I wasn't enough to get in trouble.

[214] You know what I mean?

[215] Like he couldn't do anything to send me to the principal's office, but I didn't like the guy, and I was nice enough to get by.

[216] I think you were too handsome, even at that age, and he was upset and jealous.

[217] That's what it was.

[218] I did poo in his table.

[219] His top drawer of his desk.

[220] Upper Decker, just, wow.

[221] No, I did.

[222] Can I tell you, so I was in these gifted and talented classes?

[223] The kids thought I was in the wrong room, I guess, is what I want to say.

[224] Were you?

[225] No, I was in the correct place.

[226] But when I would show up, a lot of the kids were like, oh, God, the dumb kid, he's got the wrong room.

[227] But then I would act the part, because I had an AP class that was taught over a TV at another high school because we didn't have a teacher there's fit to teach us AP history class.

[228] And it was at another high school, and we would come in a report, and there's just TVs in the corners, and then they're filming us.

[229] and I would smoke cigarettes in the back of the classroom because there was no teacher in there.

[230] So you proved everyone right.

[231] That's right.

[232] Yeah.

[233] But I guess what I'm relating to is that I was in those classes, but maybe unconventionally so.

[234] There's always that one kid.

[235] There is.

[236] Did you feel like you belonged with those other smarty pants?

[237] I thought I did.

[238] I was kind of cool with everybody at school.

[239] I got along with the nerds and I got along with the bully jocks and I got along with the emo kids.

[240] I was assuming maybe that you were punk rock in some nature.

[241] No, I was pretty mellow.

[242] In kindergarten, first, second grade, I was like a bully.

[243] I used to beat everybody up.

[244] Okay.

[245] And I was like the tough kid.

[246] I looked back and tried to psychoanalyze myself.

[247] And that was around the time my parents split up.

[248] And then my personality changed.

[249] I got a lot more sort of introverted at that time.

[250] Post -divorce.

[251] Post -divorce, yeah.

[252] Okay, because I hate to admit I was a bully in elementary school.

[253] But again, I had an older brother who was kicking my ass all day when I was at home.

[254] And then when I got to school, it was incredibly empowering that I wasn't on the business end of these meetings.

[255] And then also stepdad in the house who was violent and a maniac.

[256] So going to school was, like, the only place I felt like I had some power.

[257] Yeah.

[258] What age were your parents?

[259] Stepdad's could be dicks, too, right?

[260] Did you have any?

[261] I did.

[262] My mom, she's been married twice since my dad.

[263] She's currently still married.

[264] Her second husband, I got along okay with him.

[265] Him and my brother got an actual fistfights.

[266] He was just very different from us.

[267] We were, like, surfer kids, and he was a mechanic and kind of a redneck, and everything about him, the way he dressed.

[268] Everything was just so far removed from what my dad was.

[269] was.

[270] My dad had a bait shop and my dad just liked to drink and surf and fish and camp and be outdoors and scuba dive.

[271] Anything in and around the water.

[272] And then my mom married a guy who was so different.

[273] It was really hard for my older brother.

[274] It was weird for me. I didn't mind him a whole lot if my mom was happy.

[275] I think my older brother saw it as like someone replacing my dad in the house and that was offensive.

[276] My brother was now the man of the house.

[277] Yeah, yeah.

[278] He was 17, 18.

[279] I was 14, 15.

[280] It was very strange because he was technically homeless when my mom met him.

[281] Oh, wow.

[282] The mechanic?

[283] Yeah, he had just gone through a divorce with his wife.

[284] So he was paying child support and didn't really have money to get his own house.

[285] And his son lived in the apartment building we were in, and he would live in his van in our driveway.

[286] And the ex -wife lived in your apartment building?

[287] The ex -wife lived in our apartment building.

[288] Oh, wow.

[289] So he moved next door?

[290] He moved in with us, and we were in a two -bedroom place.

[291] My mom had the bedroom downstairs.

[292] There was an upstairs bedroom and kind of an open loft area.

[293] And my older brother and I slept in the loft area and my little brother had the back bedroom for whatever reason i just like to watch tv and go to bed so i slept on the couch downstairs and we had these two couches kind of like an l shape and i spent most of my teenage years sleeping on that couch and all of a sudden one night he's sleeping on the couch next to me no for a couple of months oh and i'm like fuck this is weird man yeah really quick head you known him from the apartment building prior to not really no i mean i only met him because my mom got to talking to him and they started like going on dates or whatever Wait, so he was sleeping on the couch, not in bed with your mom?

[294] Yeah, it was like beginning of their relationship, and my mom didn't want him to sleep out in the van, so he's sleeping.

[295] But she wasn't ready to have him, like, moving.

[296] Yeah, and introduce him to you guys as the new guy.

[297] Yeah, so it was really odd for me at first, because that was, like, my bed.

[298] And so now the guy's, like, basically sleeping.

[299] It was very weird.

[300] It was a rebound from my mom and for him, and they ended up a few years later, kind of having a bad split, and he didn't get violent, but almost.

[301] And then I threatened him.

[302] It got weird.

[303] I went to his house with a baseball bat, basically, and said, I'll kill you if you touch my mom.

[304] There we go.

[305] You know, I was like 22.

[306] I literally banged on his door, and I had a bat in my hand, and I'm like, I'm going to fucking kill you.

[307] And he was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[308] And he's like, hold on, let me talk, let me talk.

[309] And then he explained his side of things.

[310] I let him talk.

[311] And I said, if you even threaten to lay a finger on my mom, I said, I'll tell my brother and my friend Drew, they'll kill you.

[312] They'll, like, they won't be kind.

[313] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[314] Like, my brother and him had already fought.

[315] Uh -huh.

[316] And I don't know if they would have killed him, but they would have beat him up.

[317] Was he victorious, your brother?

[318] No, I don't think so.

[319] I mean, my brother was like an 18 -year -old kid, and he was a man, you know.

[320] And a mechanic.

[321] He had strong forearms.

[322] Yeah.

[323] I was in the house when it happened when they started fighting, and I just remember hearing a glass table break.

[324] And I think my brother's head hit that table and broke it or something.

[325] They landed on it.

[326] And my little brother and I were in the house.

[327] My little brother was 10.

[328] We lived on the water, and I ran him out to the dock, and I said, you stay here.

[329] And I ran back inside, and I jumped on my stepfather.

[330] And I tried to just wrestle him from behind.

[331] you know and hold him and my brother got up and ran out of the house and then slept in the beach that night i've never really talked about that it was weird for me but i think it was super hard on my older brother he was just trying to become a man and had this guy in the house he didn't like and yeah it was kind of a shock to his system he might have sensed that she was getting taken advantage of well i think my brother was starting to kind of go out and party a little bit too and stepdad was calling him out on it so there's that dynamic also and he's like you're not my fucking dad you're not going to tell me what to do you know he didn't feel like he had a right to have opinion about my brother's life which in a way he didn't yeah i've talked about this a lot on here i had three stepdad's and it's a very bizarre experience at once uh all at once yeah well reverse fundamentalist i just saw i just saw show about it's like the uh the the reverse Mormon fundamentalist yeah she was a inverted fundamentalist it's a polyandry i think polyandry that's the word i was trying to think um there were some cultures in the andy andy There have been a couple hunting and gathering studies.

[332] Bees.

[333] Bees.

[334] Queen.

[335] Queen.

[336] But yeah, the notion of a strange man entering your home, and all of a sudden he's in charge, and it's his game plan is fucking so weird.

[337] Yeah, I talked to a number of friends who've been married and tried to put families together, different kids in the same household.

[338] If you could blend that, you're a magician.

[339] Oh, yeah.

[340] It's a hard thing.

[341] So my brother, too, I've watched him fight two different stepdads.

[342] Same thing, you're in the house, you hear glass breaking, you hear people screaming.

[343] At the time, I don't know how you felt, but it's just kind of happening.

[344] And I don't think till later you meet other people and you realize, oh, they didn't see that violence all the time in their house.

[345] And you start wondering, like, huh, I wonder what course that set me on.

[346] I mean, I know enough about psychology to know, like I'm very comfortable in a very heightened arousal state.

[347] I have this weird thing where there was especially in a few years of my life where a bunch of crazy things happened and I was always there, car accidents, drownings.

[348] hit and runs, stuff like that, where I was like the person on the scene.

[349] And I just went into autopilot and just started handling the situation.

[350] I'm pretty calm in, like, heavy situations.

[351] And I think it's probably from that training I had in my family.

[352] Yes.

[353] Not exactly what it was supposed to be.

[354] Comfortable with chaos.

[355] You know, I've talked about it a lot.

[356] My dad was an alcoholic and him and my mom didn't really have a great relationship.

[357] And eventually, obviously, led to their demise.

[358] Being around that, you learn how to manage the situation naturally.

[359] and it seems normal I guess but I was talking to my mom the other day I acknowledged I know you did the best you could at the same time there's no way I could imagine my kids growing up in that situation ever and my girlfriend and I talk about that if we have kids I couldn't ever imagine my kids being in this situation to I was as a child where you got to leave the house as a kid because your parents are screaming at each other and you're sleeping outside in the concrete and you're crying all the time because you're so scared is somebody going to kill each other or is somebody going to leave and never come back Like my mom used to always say, I just want to get in the car and drive away and never come back.

[360] And I'm six.

[361] Yeah, that's like not comforting.

[362] Like you don't say that to your child, you know, but she didn't know.

[363] My mom was like a child herself.

[364] I mean, she wasn't a very young mom.

[365] She was just normal, like late 20s to early 30s.

[366] But she was terrified with the state of my father all the time.

[367] And my dad was happy as a clam.

[368] He was just out drinking and living his life.

[369] Yeah, and he was super nice to us, you know?

[370] Like my dad never like beat us up.

[371] Yeah, I didn't go through that kind of thing with a dad who drank.

[372] I just have to tell you, similar to the apartment story, we move out of the family house.

[373] My dad keeps the family house.

[374] He's a car salesman.

[375] We moved to this welfare apartment set up.

[376] How did your dad pull that shit off?

[377] He was very charismatic.

[378] Jeez.

[379] So my brother and I would go to his house on the weekends.

[380] And all of a sudden there was a dude from the dealership he worked at, Greg, who's living in our bedroom, my brother and I's bedroom.

[381] So he took on a roommate, this guy, Greg.

[382] Very nice guy.

[383] He was lovely.

[384] And then about six months later, Greg started.

[385] coming over to our apartment and then Greg moved into our apartment so Greg went from my dad's house they were co -workers met my mom in the mix and then my mom married him and so he moved from our childhood bedroom in our old house into our apartment that's bizarre that is unbelievable yeah it's a similar trajectory as the dude living next door and then being on the couch that's even stranger it's pretty strange my mom just felt bad for the guy it's either too cold or too hot out there come in here i don't know if my mother had any compassion for Greg, but maybe she too felt bad for him.

[386] I know, he was living at my dad's house.

[387] But at any rate, I do think what you also get really good at is...

[388] Surfing.

[389] You get really good at surfing, because you don't want to be in the house.

[390] Yeah.

[391] Honestly, yeah.

[392] You missed your calling.

[393] No, this is why I relate, because the things I were into, like BMX, I could go out on my bike on my own.

[394] I didn't need anything.

[395] I can disappear there.

[396] Then skateboarding.

[397] You're on your own little whirl in a parking lot for six hours.

[398] All that escape.

[399] As opposed to a team sport.

[400] Yes.

[401] Yeah, see, I was pretty good at team sports, but I never really liked them.

[402] I did like baseball a bit.

[403] I wasn't that good at basketball, but I was good at baseball.

[404] I was really good at baseball, because I really understood the plays and the movement I could see it.

[405] You could predict it.

[406] Yeah, I was like a real student of football as a kid.

[407] I watched every football team on TV.

[408] I played on teams, but surfing just won out because it was an individual, and I was like, my own mind determines what I'm going to do here.

[409] All choices are all mine.

[410] Yeah, full control.

[411] Yeah.

[412] I will say, too, the sports I was drawn to, I also liked them because no one had an advantage if they had a dad around.

[413] When I played soccer, I was playing against a kid whose their dads were practicing with them.

[414] No one's dad was skateboarding with their kid.

[415] No one's dad was snowboarding with their kid.

[416] So to me, it felt like I entered in a level.

[417] Like, oh, great, no one here has anyone guiding them through this.

[418] We're all figuring this out.

[419] Among peers, you're like looking to your peers to instruct you, not an adult, which was helpful.

[420] But I have one last question about childhood.

[421] Are your spidey sense is great.

[422] So even if your dad wasn't violent to you, I have to imagine you're really good.

[423] good at detecting the atmosphere in the room and when things are about to go off between mom and dad.

[424] Minimally, you're afraid of that.

[425] Like, I don't want this tornado to blow through.

[426] And so you're like, oh, God, he just had a fourth beer, and now she said dad, and now this is gonna happen.

[427] Do you think you have acute spitey senses?

[428] Yeah.

[429] I think the way you look at me tells me you do.

[430] Yeah, for sure.

[431] Yeah, you're trying to figure out if I'm - What do you think's happening?

[432] There's something happening, I like it though.

[433] Do you think there's something happening?

[434] I'm just wondering what's in his drink.

[435] This one?

[436] I'm kidding.

[437] No, I was always hyper -sensitive.

[438] My whole life, I still am, hypersensitive to other people's feelings ahead of mine, too, to my demise in a lot of ways.

[439] It's good for self -preservation or, like, fight or flight, but it's not really great for, like, relationship or confidence in yourself or security.

[440] Yeah, do you feel sometimes burdened by that awareness of everyone else's emotional state?

[441] Like, it's exhausting to some degree?

[442] It is, but one of my all -time heroes is Nicola Tesla.

[443] The inventor.

[444] Yeah, the inventor.

[445] And as a kid, he had these crazy migraines where he just would see all white.

[446] It was so intense by the time he was like 15 or something he wanted to commit suicide.

[447] Then he learned to control them.

[448] And when he did, he realized he had like a photographic memory and he could design things from the intensity of his brain.

[449] Really?

[450] Yeah.

[451] And so anyways, about a year ago, I had something really intense personally happened for me. I was just getting ready to surf this contest in Hawaii pipeline.

[452] And I couldn't sleep for a few nights.

[453] And then I tuned into it the right way and realized it was a gift for me. but it's something you see as a curse.

[454] And that's why Spider -Man and Superman and all these superheroes speak to people because there is something inside each person, there's a superpower in each person.

[455] And it's from the way you were raised, whether you were raised really healthy and safe and stable, and you can provide that for people.

[456] Or if you're in some crazy environment, it's haywire, and you don't know how to control it, but if you can control it, that's your superpower.

[457] Yeah.

[458] You can be a calming force in a lot of chaos.

[459] Yeah.

[460] You also seeing other people really quickly.

[461] You become like a buoy, I think.

[462] If you learn to be aware of what that thing is and how to control it, how to tame it, once you learn to really push your limits of who you are and where you can go in the thing that you like or the things in your life, and you can learn to pull it back, but you know you have that energy in there, that it's your fuel source.

[463] It's your superpower, yeah.

[464] It's your reverse kryptonite.

[465] Yeah.

[466] Okay, here's some of my curiosities, knowing kind of your personality type and what we just talked about, it's a solitary endeavor, and that's great.

[467] I wonder, this sport, by design, it's kind of bipolar it's like the world you've existed in for the last 30 whatever odd years you're completely by yourself you're with a million people you have victory you have defeat you have all these crazy highs and lows what i was really tripping out on watching everything i could about you this week is when you're doing your job that's going to be the most level of fame and distraction you have like I just imagine if when I was in scenes on set, in an intimate scene, that's when they let the tour come through Universal, and I also had to say hi to people mid -scene.

[468] It's a very peculiar dynamic I'm kind of curious about.

[469] Well, A, do you agree that it's a really kind of bipolar extreme?

[470] It's peaceful and beautiful, and it's intense at the same time.

[471] You do it because you like the solace, but then also surfing at the good spots are really crowded.

[472] And, yeah, you don't start surfing because you want to be a contest surfer or a competitor.

[473] you do it because you enjoy riding waves and it's something really peaceful and natural and then to put yourself in a competitive environment in a place it's supposed to be like of solace it's kind of a mind fuck somehow you know there's definitely a bipolarity to it I would say surfing is probably the most spiritual sport there is so we've always had this conundrum of surfing being our peaceful place and being nature and then being like a sponsored pro getting paid for it and like are you selling out the ocean and everything it's giving you to make money there's a mindful and for adulation and for prizes and rewards yeah i mean obviously some people like that stuff more than other people you can kind of pick and choose the things you want to make money from or is it right or is it right for the sport but not right for you you just have to be tuned in to knowing what feels right and you don't always make the right decision yeah i assume you'd start surfing for the intrinsic rewards makes you feel good, you're accomplishing something, and then the better you get it all becomes about extrinsic rewards, which is tricky.

[474] Yeah.

[475] I mean, I remember getting picture taken for the newspaper my first time when I was 10 years old, you know?

[476] Yeah.

[477] Actually, the first time I got pictures taken to me for the newspaper, I was fishing.

[478] Was your dad?

[479] No, I was by myself.

[480] Okay.

[481] And I was just fishing about half a block away from my house, like a couple hundred yards away, and my mom could see me from there, and I was maybe five or six.

[482] And this guy stopped in his car and started asking me questions, and I was like, this guy trying to fucking steal me?

[483] You know, and he literally worked for the newspaper, but I had always been told, you know, don't talk to strangers.

[484] I was pretty aware.

[485] I was making sure to look over and see my house.

[486] I was on my best friend's street, and everyone knows me in the neighborhood.

[487] So I was like, I was really aware.

[488] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[489] But then he started taking a picture with me fishing, and it ended up in the Sun newspaper, the local paper, and he interviewed me. And I had like a funny, I guess I had like a speech impediment at that age, basically, and so my name ended up being Kevin's something.

[490] Oh, okay.

[491] You know, he couldn't even understand what I was.

[492] Stater.

[493] Kevin Stater.

[494] Kevin Swayto.

[495] Kevin Swaydo.

[496] You didn't catch a marlin.

[497] And I didn't catch a fish, but I got my line stuck on a little pole that was in the water.

[498] So he's got me like with a ratness.

[499] Oh my God.

[500] It was funny.

[501] My mom's probably got that paper.

[502] Even though we know that turned out well, I'm still very skeptical of this person.

[503] Well, what I was thinking is like, I hate to say that's a great angle.

[504] It is.

[505] Is to act like you're from the newspaper and you have a camera?

[506] It's better than candy.

[507] It is.

[508] Famed.

[509] Strongest drug known to man. Stronger than heroin.

[510] Okay, but what I heard you say was you surf best when you're relaxed and happy.

[511] How do you create an environment for yourself where you're happy and relaxed when you show up at work, there's just inherently going to be several thousand people screaming who recognize you and want your attention, want your energy, want a photo.

[512] like how on earth are you compartmentalizing your internal experience?

[513] Are you disassociated?

[514] Are you like moving through the crowd and you're on kind of autopilot?

[515] You can give people what they want, but you're somehow in your head in a compartment where you're maintaining a mantra or something?

[516] Yeah, since the beginning I always tried to just be Kelly like myself, but I think at some point it became obvious that there's two mes.

[517] That's a public me. And I have to kind of almost disassociate, like you said, like I have to treat that like a different person to some degree, because otherwise it's too much for me to process.

[518] It's hard for me to have time for all those people.

[519] And sometimes I start being an asshole, and I hate it.

[520] Me, myself, I'm not an asshole of people at all.

[521] I'm a super nice guy, but I can be a dick sometimes because I get so overwhelmed.

[522] People don't know that.

[523] And so I'll say something smart to somebody or like off -putting intentionally because I don't want them to give me any attention.

[524] But it's not because me as a person is that way.

[525] It's the person that I have to be at that time in order to save the energy I'm trying to focus into that thing.

[526] And I don't even have the time to explain it.

[527] Then I go home and I feel bad about myself because I'm like, God, I was kind of a dick to that kid or that woman.

[528] I'm like, I want to apologize to them.

[529] And occasionally I'll get a message from somebody online.

[530] I go, you know, you were me and you said something rude.

[531] And I had it happened to me recently at home.

[532] Where's home?

[533] In Florida.

[534] I went to this beach where I was surfing by myself.

[535] No one surf there.

[536] Just me and one friend and these guys saw us driving by.

[537] And they turned around and they came back and they started walking back and forth through the parking lot pretending they were just checking the surf there.

[538] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[539] And then they wanted to pick.

[540] And I said something smart to him when they finally asked for a picture because I was just, like, annoyed that they thought they were fooling you.

[541] That's the annoying thing.

[542] Yeah, they weren't being straight to me. Right.

[543] But I'm the bad guy because people know my name.

[544] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[545] So then he put the picture on Instagram and then said, like, I met Kelly Slater today.

[546] He was kind of a jerk.

[547] And I was like, I just have this sense of loss when that happens because I'm like, I could just grit my teeth and bear it a little more.

[548] But I just can't because I'm human also.

[549] Yeah, yeah.

[550] Do you find so much about expectations?

[551] So it's like, for me, whether I'm going to react kindly or like an asshole is my own expectation.

[552] So if I go do an event to surf at Pipeline tomorrow, I know what's going to happen.

[553] You're going to wipe out.

[554] I'm going to die.

[555] I'm personally going to die.

[556] I've never surf.

[557] So beyond that, I'll die.

[558] You'll drown.

[559] It'll drown.

[560] And then you'll hit the reef and cut your shelf.

[561] And I hope I make a headline, you know.

[562] If you were to win that day, I probably would get buried.

[563] But above all that, I would go there knowing, like, I'm going to talk to a lot of people.

[564] that's how it is.

[565] But when I go with a friend to a beach that I think no one will be at, I actually have an expectation of some privacy and some intimacy with the people I chose to be with.

[566] And it's actually the getting pulled out of that like, oh no, that's right.

[567] It's going to be this.

[568] Yeah, I hate that because I surf behind my house.

[569] I have a house right here.

[570] And then you're in Hawaii in the wintertime and everyone recognizes me on the beach.

[571] Sure.

[572] So then walking to and from the water to my house, which is like 50 yards, you know, I might get stopped five or six or eight times.

[573] Yeah, yeah.

[574] To me, that's annoying because I feel like I'm in my backyard.

[575] But I'm still nice.

[576] I tried to be nice.

[577] One time, though, I was out surfing a couple years ago, and my board hit me in the leg, and this nerve shot off in my foot, and it felt like somebody had a flamethrower on my foot.

[578] I never had a sensation like this, and it wouldn't stop.

[579] And I was still in the water when it happened, and I started paddling, and every time a drop of water would hit my foot, it was like somebody stabbing my foot.

[580] It was like this insane.

[581] It was so sensitive, and so I tried to paddle back to my house because I was like, I don't think I can walk.

[582] And as I paddle the water was hitting it, it was hurting more.

[583] So I got up on the beach and tried to walk, and I couldn't walk.

[584] Oh, my God.

[585] And it was like, no one on this beach, but there was like two people there and three people there.

[586] And they both wanted pictures with me. Oh, my gosh.

[587] And I was trying to tell them I was in agonizing pain, but I couldn't explain it because there was no blood.

[588] Right.

[589] It was nothing.

[590] And they would have thought I was lying.

[591] Uh -huh, right.

[592] Even the sand touching my foot hurt, and I was trying to hobble home, and I was like, almost in tears.

[593] I just made this decision.

[594] I go, you know what, it's way easier to I just take this picture, then to explain to them my injury.

[595] But that sucks.

[596] Well, it's this debate.

[597] It was so weird.

[598] Because in some way, it's not natural.

[599] Right, and in one way you're either going to betray yourself.

[600] On some level, I totally know what you're saying.

[601] You go home and you're like, I could have been nice.

[602] It would have taken the same amount of time and I wouldn't feel like shit now.

[603] So A, strategically, I should have just been nice.

[604] There are other times, though, where you might go home and go like, I've completely betrayed myself.

[605] I'm not even allowed to exist in the reality that I'm in, which is my foot's on fire.

[606] Yeah.

[607] Oh, I took a guy's camera once I threw it on the ground.

[608] Right.

[609] I mean, now and then, I'll just go, I asked you nicely.

[610] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[611] You disagreed with me. This is what happened.

[612] I was in France, and we were out, and this guy asked me for a photo, and I said, I'd rather not right now.

[613] And he just goes, oh, well, let's just do it.

[614] And he, you know, and I said, no, no, and then he just got aggressive.

[615] And, like, wanted to, so I just took his camera and I threw it in the ground.

[616] Yeah.

[617] And then I was the big asshole.

[618] But I'm like, you ask me, you're unwilling to accept a no. If you're not going to accept a no, don't bother asking me. You just come take a picture.

[619] I'd probably accept that better.

[620] You know, I demand respect if you're going to talk to me on some level.

[621] But at the end of the day, it's all fucking childish.

[622] Who cares?

[623] I'm famous for going to ride in waves.

[624] Like, I could take a picture and not be a dick.

[625] No, I was curious.

[626] If you're away from the ocean, in some ways, I think you might have dream fame, which is like, if you want it, all you need to do is go onto a beach.

[627] And if you don't want it, maybe you can escape it.

[628] But is that wrong to think?

[629] Like, if you plotted it.

[630] No, no, somebody came to my hometown and did an interview with me. And they did some kind of test where they asked people around my hometown about me and they all knew me. Right.

[631] And they drove like three miles inland.

[632] Right.

[633] And nobody knew me, you know?

[634] Right.

[635] It was like one of those things.

[636] Because if you're away from the beach.

[637] If you plotted it on a graph, I bet the further away from the ocean you got, the more anonymous you would become.

[638] But then the weird thing happened to me because I was on Baywatch.

[639] Yeah, you were.

[640] 26 episodes?

[641] 27 episodes?

[642] Seven.

[643] Only seven.

[644] I'm going to sue Wikipedia.

[645] Seven episodes, yeah, over two years.

[646] Five, one year, two, the next.

[647] 92 and 93.

[648] But in 94, I was in Paris for a couple of weeks, and I just was like cruising, partying in Paris.

[649] Yeah, yeah, right.

[650] Somebody gave me an apartment to use while I was there, and I just went and kind of had fun for a couple weeks.

[651] And I remember I was standing next to kind of a famous building, and people were taking pictures near it and stuff.

[652] And walks up right next to me, David, what was the guy's name?

[653] He was a magician, and he was married to some model.

[654] No, not David Blaine.

[655] Copperfield?

[656] Copperfield.

[657] Copperfield.

[658] Walks up from me to you away right next to me. He's got all these cameras and none of them knew me. Right.

[659] And I thought this is so weird.

[660] I was just down in Lachan al -Bieritz in Hossigur, France.

[661] Okay.

[662] Where everyone was there to see me. They all knew me. Yes.

[663] Every single person there knew me. And I was going crazy.

[664] Actually, a couple years later, Jack Johnson, who had just graduated from college, he had graduated to do film.

[665] The first year was out of college, he made a surf movie with us.

[666] And he came to France with me. And we went to those things.

[667] cities.

[668] Jack was in my car with me. It was just me and Jack.

[669] And Jack was like, Kelly, this is crazy.

[670] It's like the Beatles, man. It's dangerous.

[671] We would try to leave the surf contest, and there'd be thousands of people that would not move.

[672] I couldn't drive.

[673] And I would have to just inch forward, inch forward, inch forward.

[674] And Jack has filmed from in the car with people banging on the windows, and Jack would get out of the car and film me. And no one knew Jack at the time, right?

[675] He hadn't put a song out or anything.

[676] And Jack was like, this is crazy that I'm seeing this, man. I can't believe that this is like real.

[677] Yeah.

[678] Anyway, so go back to that story where I'm standing next to Dave Copperfield.

[679] I'm in Paris.

[680] No one knows me. And they're all taking these pictures of him.

[681] He's doing a press day.

[682] And then five Italian guys come up and they're like, Kelly Slater!

[683] And I thought it was like anonymous here.

[684] Pronto.

[685] And then I'm like, oh, do you guys surf?

[686] They're like, oh no, alert on Malibu.

[687] That's what they call it in France.

[688] Oh, Baywatch.

[689] Oh, Baywatch.

[690] And so they knew me from Baywatch.

[691] And I was like, ah, damn it.

[692] I hate that.

[693] Did they know your fake name?

[694] Jimmy Slade.

[695] Jimmy Slade.

[696] Close.

[697] Yeah, they knew.

[698] Do you know how many viewers that show had when you were, yeah, we just looked it up.

[699] Do you know how much money I got paid to be on that show?

[700] I can guess.

[701] Okay, first season.

[702] You're a guest star?

[703] Per episode.

[704] $700 an episode.

[705] No, it's more than that.

[706] On every preview, it would have me. Yeah, coming out of the water.

[707] Even if I wasn't on the show.

[708] Sure.

[709] But yeah, I made about $2 ,300 each show.

[710] And then you pay you tax and you pay tax.

[711] So, I mean, you know, I was probably making about $1 ,200 a show.

[712] And I was getting shit from everyone in the surf world.

[713] for being on Daywatch.

[714] I'm like, that is not worth a thousand bucks to show $5 ,000 a year that I clear.

[715] The second year I did it, I was so uncomfortable doing it because all I ever wanted to do is be a surfer.

[716] All I ever want to do is try to win a world championship.

[717] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[718] We've all been there.

[719] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[720] Though our mom, lines tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[721] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[722] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[723] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[724] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[725] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[726] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[727] What's up guys?

[728] It's your girl Kiki and my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you it's too good and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[729] Every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[730] And I don't mean just friends.

[731] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[732] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[733] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[734] Can I ask really quick?

[735] You won a 92, 94 split for four years?

[736] No, I won 92, 94, 5, 6, 7, 8.

[737] When did you take off?

[738] Three years, 99 through 2001.

[739] Okay, so you were still active while you were shooting Baywatch.

[740] You were still competing.

[741] That was the first year I was full -time on tour.

[742] Oh, okay.

[743] I was 20 years old.

[744] I was the first year I won the world title.

[745] Oh, wow.

[746] How did Baywatch even happen?

[747] I don't know whether they believe my story on this or not.

[748] When I read it, I didn't know if I believed it.

[749] Yeah, so late teens, I kind of got into playing guitar and singing, and I kind of wanted to start writing songs and stuff, but I don't know if I wanted to be like a professional musician.

[750] My manager at the time was like, oh, you should go into studio and just sing a couple songs.

[751] He set that up, and I went and did it, and I was super nervous and scared to sing in front of anyone, and I was terrible.

[752] It was terrible, and I was like, what am I doing?

[753] So fish out of water.

[754] Anyways, I kind of became friends with the guy who was doing sound.

[755] And many years later, I started a band, and we did an album.

[756] And that guy showed up at one of my shows.

[757] She was like, hey, it's me, remember?

[758] And he was a really good guitarist and musician.

[759] It was cool because I kind of made friends with this guy from that.

[760] But the first time I'm in a studio trying to sing like Elton John's Norman Genie.

[761] So my manager wanted me to be like a teen heartthrob kind of guy.

[762] He wanted me to be like a child star.

[763] He was an L .A. guy, and he had contacted my mom.

[764] when I was 14 years old.

[765] And he started managing me from that age.

[766] When I was 16, he did my first, like, sponsorship deal and stuff.

[767] But he wanted me to be an actor.

[768] And he wanted me to be, like, a superstar.

[769] And he used to tell my mom, one day, people are going to remember that Kelly was a surfer.

[770] But they're not going to know him for that.

[771] Oh.

[772] Yeah.

[773] And I was like, fuck this guy.

[774] It really was like a dagger.

[775] I was like, what are you talking about?

[776] Dude, this is like...

[777] He sounds like Colonel Parker.

[778] I don't know.

[779] That's Alvin.

[780] He's way off base.

[781] Yeah, he's like, people will remember he used to be a...

[782] singer.

[783] Like, I want him to be a movie star.

[784] Fuck him singing.

[785] Surfing was just my absolute all -time passion.

[786] And my parents, they both supported it.

[787] There was no wealthy career surfer.

[788] There was surfers that they knew, but nobody made a life.

[789] The guy who won the world title that year that I started surfing, that was the first year they ever had a world title.

[790] And Peter Townon won and I think he won a couple thousand dollars.

[791] Like, there wasn't a career path.

[792] Yeah, maybe he got free tickets or something, you know, but he didn't make any money.

[793] Right.

[794] So it wasn't a career path, but it's cool that they totally supported us doing that.

[795] But back to the Baywatch thing.

[796] This guy didn't Brian Taylor was my manager at the time.

[797] I'm going to actually expose him on some things here.

[798] Exclusive.

[799] Yeah, I just, I got to.

[800] It's just time.

[801] But he was working for William Morris as not a main agent, but at one point he was like a junior agent for Clint Eastwood or something.

[802] His vision was acting in movies and whatever.

[803] So he wanted me to try out for Baywatch.

[804] And I was like, I don't really have any interest.

[805] He's like, well, just go try out.

[806] Just so if one day down the line you change your mind, you'll have this experience.

[807] And so he just sold me on it like that.

[808] Yeah.

[809] Right, right, right.

[810] So I went and did this cast.

[811] for Baywatch and I got my lines wrong I mean look I know what good acting is I wasn't doing it I can see good acting I can feel it but I was not doing it I did the thing and I got done I was like oh man that's done and the worst hour of my year I'll never do that I'll never do that and so Brian as I remember he had a power of attorney for me for a number of things afterwards he's like they loved you and I'm like that's frightening because I was terrible yeah yeah this show's gonna be bad yeah I'm like If they like me, I don't want to be on that show.

[812] Like, I was no good.

[813] He's like, no, they loved you.

[814] They really want you.

[815] Long story short, I was on my first year on the world tour in 92.

[816] He signed the dotted line for me, and I was obligated to do the show.

[817] I didn't want to do the show.

[818] That's what I read.

[819] It seems insane.

[820] It seems insane.

[821] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[822] And I did not want to do Baywatch.

[823] But I had an obligation to do it now.

[824] Yeah, you could get sued otherwise.

[825] Yeah, I probably would have gotten sued.

[826] You committed to it, yeah.

[827] And so I was in Australia.

[828] My then boss had to drive me to the airport, and I was telling him about it.

[829] He was like, this doesn't sound good, Kelly.

[830] And we were reporting to Baywatch.

[831] And we were like, I had to fly back to do the opening photo shoot where I met the whole cast.

[832] Oh, boy.

[833] I met Pam.

[834] I met Dave Charvei.

[835] I met Hasselhoff.

[836] I met Jeremy Jackson.

[837] I met everyone that day.

[838] But I almost missed my flight.

[839] And I really wanted to.

[840] But if I missed that flight, that was the last flight to get into L .A. before that photo shoot.

[841] Sidebar, was Hasselhoff lovely?

[842] I really enjoyed Dave.

[843] I bet.

[844] I think he's awesome.

[845] Yeah, yeah.

[846] I love that guy.

[847] Also, we grew up watching Night Rider.

[848] Yeah, no. I love Night Rider.

[849] But Hasselhoff was always super cool to me. Look, you can think what you want about the guy.

[850] You know, he's got a funny ego and stuff.

[851] He was always super nice to me. He's still, every couple years, he'll reach out and send me a message or say hi.

[852] I have a hunch he's a super sweet dude.

[853] I got nothing but good things to say about Dave Hasseloff.

[854] He took his part really seriously and he was intense when he acted and stuff.

[855] I mean, at times, I would have to turn my face and laugh because he was so intense.

[856] Listen, Kelly, in his defense, he's got a bunch of people who've never acted.

[857] He's got a fucking surfer who doesn't want to be there.

[858] He's the only person there.

[859] he's carrying that whole fucking thing on some level, right?

[860] You listen to Pam's story she's like she didn't show up for eight auditions they scheduled eight auditions she just kept not showing up they still put her on the show you did terrible they put you on the show that's what Houselhoff was given a bunch of people didn't want to be there Bad news bear and by God through that they become the biggest show in the world It's quite a story if you really think about it Yeah I know weird way it was But had there been any sort of sense of reality on the show and the scripting and stuff and writing, maybe I could have hung out for another year or two, I don't know.

[861] But we do CPR like this.

[862] My elbows are bent and I'm pushing my hands forward doing a piston.

[863] That's not how you do CPR.

[864] So even when I would see them doing CPR, I'm like, you guys, at least make it look right.

[865] Maybe somebody doesn't have to copy that one day.

[866] Straight arms, all your weight, break some ribs.

[867] You know, but there'd be like two pumps piston pumps on the chest and people would cough up water and start talking.

[868] I'm like, wow, you save them.

[869] Killer.

[870] Good job.

[871] I would just get super critical and I would just be like, you're making a fucking joke out of my life here.

[872] And it would piss me off.

[873] How old are you, 21?

[874] You care a lot about shit at 21 too, right?

[875] I was 20.

[876] It's like, now you could probably do anything like, yeah, this is a hilarious hoot.

[877] I'm on this show.

[878] If they had made Baywatch a comedy, greatest fucking show on the face of the earth ever existed.

[879] Well, they did make a comedy.

[880] The movie is stupid for them not to reach out to you.

[881] Yeah, no, they didn't.

[882] They didn't.

[883] Okay, I've got a bone to pick with that gang now.

[884] That would have been a great nod to bring Kelly back.

[885] Big mistake.

[886] I talked about it with a couple of guys on the show.

[887] You did.

[888] Yeah.

[889] They did the movie and I run into Zach Ephron at Chris Hemsworth's house at a birthday party.

[890] Are you feeling completely unfit?

[891] I mean, between the two of those guys are you starting to feel like, I need to be on a cycle here.

[892] What's going on?

[893] I'm actually...

[894] Shriveled up.

[895] Shriveled into a couch.

[896] World -class athlete feeling.

[897] No, so I meet Zach.

[898] That was the first time I think I met him.

[899] I ran into him at New York at this Global Citizen concert.

[900] And it was right when they were doing Baywatch, he's like, it's going to be comedy, it's like going to be funny.

[901] Yeah.

[902] And I'm like, well, it would be funny is that Jimmy Slade who moved to Hawaii and left the show because that's what I did.

[903] I told him, I said, I just can't do this show.

[904] I went up to the producer or director one day and I said, hey, I just can't do the show anymore.

[905] All I want to do is surf.

[906] I'm like, you have to write me off.

[907] I'm sorry.

[908] I get shot.

[909] Oh, my goodness.

[910] Yeah, I get shot trying to save Nicole Egert from a guy who's holding her captive in a lifeguard tower.

[911] Of course.

[912] Daily occurrence in Malvern.

[913] Well, and the way that I got there was I shuffled underneath the sand.

[914] Oh, I got like a serpent.

[915] Like a serpent, yeah.

[916] Sand serpent.

[917] And anyways, I get shot in shoulder, whatever.

[918] I end up leaving and moving to Hawaii.

[919] Okay.

[920] But at the time, I lived in my van.

[921] So I told Zach, I go, dude, it would be super funny.

[922] I would love to do something where you see me in Hawaii.

[923] I'm still living in my van and I'm like old or something.

[924] Still on a swing.

[925] I'm like a bum surfer living in a van in Hawaii now instead of California.

[926] Yeah, it didn't work out.

[927] So he actually made some moves and was trying to get me apart.

[928] It would be fun to do now.

[929] Now, yeah, that didn't happen, but it was one of those things in my brain that would have been funny.

[930] Yeah, a couple things about surfing.

[931] First of all, we're here to talk about make or break, which is incredible, just a back story yet.

[932] Not only did I not watch Formula One, I actively hated it.

[933] I thought it was so boring, there's no passing, I hated it.

[934] Then I watched Drive to Survive.

[935] My whole life now is Formula One.

[936] I travel over the world to see races.

[937] I've become friends with the drivers.

[938] It's all I care about.

[939] And it's all because of Drive to Survive, which is made by the same company at the Boxbox.

[940] So I start make or break last week knowing I'm going to talk to you.

[941] And of course, by the end of the season, I'm like, I'm so into surfing now.

[942] It's so fucking good.

[943] I think they did a great job.

[944] It's incredible.

[945] I know I'm part of it or whatever, but most of them I'm not in.

[946] Well, I was going to say my complaint of it was this show, I'm seeing you all over the place.

[947] You're ever present in the first season.

[948] But it's not until this coming up season where the first episode's all you.

[949] And I'm like, okay, this is what I needed so bad.

[950] I'm sure you've seen it.

[951] Yeah, I've seen it.

[952] I saw it a month ago.

[953] It's fucking incredible.

[954] It's about my win at pipeline, I think five days before I turned 50.

[955] I'm the oldest guy on tour by like 15 years.

[956] Yes.

[957] I actually don't know how old the next guy is.

[958] I had Aztex.

[959] I was like, how old is everyone?

[960] And he was like, everyone else is like 20.

[961] Yeah, no, I mean, I was on tour against some of the guys on tour's fathers.

[962] Wow.

[963] 30 years ago.

[964] And most of the guys, you're double the age of.

[965] Yeah.

[966] Like, forget saying 15 or 20, like 24 or 5.

[967] What's great is because I didn't follow surfing until last week Now I'm a super fan when I watch that episode I don't know that you won last year at Pipeline I didn't yeah, yeah yeah, yeah so I was like oh my god, this motherfucker won Pipeline two weeks before his birthday like a week before his birthday I mean it's one of the best I also had I wanted hours of a sports doc I've ever seen It's so fucking good Aren't you glad that's documented step aside and go like wow?

[968] I can view that experience How incredible that thing was documented.

[969] I could have happened in a vacuum in an obscure sport like ours as compared to worldwide soccer football baseball formula one chess shuffling bad birding yeah we started in the same word i said birdie first i think that's badman shuffleboard shuffleboard yeah bar shuffleboard no but in all seriousness it was amazing that we started make a break the year before and then they were there to document that whole thing and truth be told we were going to do a whole series on just me last year separately, like a documentary in my year, I just wasn't doing good, and I was getting depressed, and I had a guy there filming, and he's a good friend of mine.

[970] We've done stuff together, but it started feeling like, I couldn't figure out why I was doing it or what I was doing it for, and I was like, it all climaxed that pipeline.

[971] So halfway through the year, we quit filming.

[972] Was that a hard decision to make?

[973] It was actually a little hard on the ego.

[974] You've reached these highs, that's the bipolarity of the surfing competitively.

[975] It's like, you'll lose most of the time.

[976] Right.

[977] But then when you win, you feel like on top of the world, and like, I could do that all day long.

[978] And it might buy you like 30 more losses, right?

[979] You're like, oh, there's enough fuel in the tank from me to fucking...

[980] She still likes me. Yes, it's a one great day.

[981] Let me text her one more time at 10 p .m. Yeah, I started that week really unsettled, and I was telling you, I sort of found my internal superpower of confidence in this one moment clicked in the contest that's in there where I win with just three seconds left in a heat to get ninth place.

[982] It was like four rounds before the final.

[983] I think it was my third heat of the contest.

[984] Oh, right.

[985] You got on the wave with four seconds, four seconds left to go.

[986] Yeah, and Barron.

[987] He's the next generation of pipeline guys.

[988] You know, he's like fearless, great surfer, really in your face, not personally, but the way he serves is very aggressive.

[989] And he's not waiting around for it to happen.

[990] Like, he's making it happen.

[991] And his dad was a pipeline guy and North Shore guy.

[992] And those guys are out to get their own.

[993] And he was dominating me in the heat.

[994] And I get this wave with four seconds to go.

[995] And I knew it was the wave when I stood up.

[996] And I couldn't believe I was like the magic still there, you know?

[997] Yeah.

[998] And I used to have these a lot.

[999] Almost every contest I ever won, I had one defining moment in the contest that I knew, okay, I'm not going to think anymore.

[1000] It's just on.

[1001] I'm on autopilot.

[1002] Flow has been engaged.

[1003] Flow just got injected in my veins.

[1004] Yeah, yeah.

[1005] And that was that moment.

[1006] Right then I'm like, okay, this is mine to lose.

[1007] All I have to do is go with this.

[1008] Don't question anything.

[1009] Trust this process.

[1010] And that's like getting in the flow for sport.

[1011] Or with anything in your life, when you don't think and question things and double question and ask yourself, why, what should I do?

[1012] When you're doing that, you lose.

[1013] And in sport, it's really evident.

[1014] I mean, think about going out to catch a screen pass and a play in football, and you're like, well, should I go this way or that?

[1015] You don't think about it like that.

[1016] You just do it.

[1017] You picture it, you imagine it, you go.

[1018] And there was a surf film, I'm forgetting it.

[1019] It was Andy Irons and this guy named Rasta, Dave Rostovitch.

[1020] In that movie, they interviewed Dave Rostovic's dad who lived in New Zealand.

[1021] He's a really spiritual guy.

[1022] He's passed away now.

[1023] But in the movie, he says, think it, feel it, do it.

[1024] Like you think up the idea, it's not you think about what you're doing.

[1025] You just think of the idea.

[1026] You have the idea.

[1027] And then you just feel it in your bones and it just happens.

[1028] And so I just really had that kind of feeling throughout that whole week last year.

[1029] It just locked in from that moment.

[1030] There was about two or three minutes left in that heat and I was getting beaten pretty badly.

[1031] I needed a really high score.

[1032] I wasn't reading the ocean or the break really well that day at Pipeline.

[1033] I just didn't feel in sync with it all.

[1034] And I really felt like he was.

[1035] At some point, I kind of mentally, emotionally surrendered to it.

[1036] It was his day.

[1037] I surrendered to that completely.

[1038] I went, no loss losing to this guy, he's great.

[1039] By the time I had sort of processed it, I probably had a little over a minute left.

[1040] And I was looking outside, and I didn't really see much coming.

[1041] When you go over each wave, you can see waves two minutes out.

[1042] I didn't see a lot, but I saw a little bump.

[1043] And with about 25, 30 seconds ago, I came over this wave, and I saw this one, and it was like almost, but I knew the size of wave I needed and the intensity of the ride I needed, and I was like, that's not the one.

[1044] I'm like, that's okay.

[1045] I go, I'm going to pass that one up.

[1046] Oh, okay, you're going to let it go.

[1047] And I didn't know if there was one behind it, But I was like, that's not good enough.

[1048] I'm not going to waste it on that.

[1049] And I come over and I see the next wave.

[1050] I'm like, holy shit.

[1051] I got 18 seconds left.

[1052] It's 14 seconds between waves today.

[1053] Oh, my God.

[1054] I have just enough time to catch this fucker.

[1055] And then I paddled out to it.

[1056] And I got myself in the spot.

[1057] And I was like, I can't believe this is happening.

[1058] And I was like, don't question it.

[1059] And I had to go back into that sort of place where I'm like, just do it.

[1060] Don't get all giddy.

[1061] You haven't done the thing.

[1062] You know, and so you get in this battle in life where you see something that is going to be yours.

[1063] and you know it can be yours if you just go through the right process but then you think about that and you get in your own way.

[1064] The second I started thinking of the result, I'm kind of fucked.

[1065] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1066] If I just stay in the process.

[1067] Yeah, and if you can stay in the process and you can truly enjoy those moments too, not the anxiety of it finishing.

[1068] If you can be present in your body, I think everyone is searching for this in the world.

[1069] I think this is the reason for drug addiction.

[1070] I know there's sadness.

[1071] I know there's things people can't process and deal with, but we're all searching to be present in the moment and to be happy with who, we are in the universe at this very instant throughout our whole lives.

[1072] To me, that's the meaning of spirituality, and that's the purpose of life is to become very present, become aware of everything around you, enjoy all the good and bad, and also on top of that, not make certain emotions more important or better than other ones.

[1073] They're all important.

[1074] They're all necessary to become whole.

[1075] And I swear that it all gelled for me in that moment.

[1076] So for me, in my life, the way that I've been able to connect to the universe to spirituality for myself is through the evidence and the obviousness of competition.

[1077] Yes.

[1078] There's one other great metaphor within that, and I jokingly said it to you in the hallway when we were walking in, but I meant it.

[1079] You say in the dock, or I don't know where I heard you say it this week, but you said you've got to ride the wave you're given, which I think is enormously metaphorically powerful.

[1080] You have some game plan in your head.

[1081] If I do this, if I'm in the barrel, I don't even know enough about it to say, But if I'm in the barrel for this many seconds and then I do this turn, for that game plan to work, you need the wave that fits this scheme you have, this game plan.

[1082] I'd love that metaphor as like, no, no, you have to be present on this wave that I committed to.

[1083] Instead of fighting the thing, you are harnessing the force that it is, as opposed to wanting it to be another thing.

[1084] There's something really beautiful about that sentiment, which is like, no, this is what it is.

[1085] Yeah, I mean, if you're riding a wild horse, you're not forcing your will upon the horse.

[1086] You're learning to harness that energy.

[1087] And you're not going to try to go barrel riding with it.

[1088] There's another agenda now on the table.

[1089] There would be another measure of success on this fucking wild Mustang other than this well -trained horse on barrel riding on.

[1090] Yeah.

[1091] I dig that.

[1092] Yeah.

[1093] Do you worry because Formula One, I mean, it was already huge, but got so big, especially in the United States after Drive to Survive.

[1094] And you're already such a well -known person and everyone knows.

[1095] knows your name, but are you like, this is going to be that.

[1096] I don't think of it that way, but it's funny because when Boxo Box pitch this, all the main teams wouldn't even work with them.

[1097] Do you know all that?

[1098] No. Yeah, maybe I'm disclosing something.

[1099] No, no. But no, like all the big dogs...

[1100] By the way, that's what happened with Formula One.

[1101] You watch the first...

[1102] That's what I'm saying.

[1103] There's no Lewis, and then all of a sudden people start cooperating.

[1104] And it's funny because I became friends with Lewis maybe six years ago or something.

[1105] Okay.

[1106] And he loves to surf.

[1107] We had a mutual friend, and that friend said, hey, Lewis wants to come to Hawaii and go surfing.

[1108] And so we became buddies.

[1109] She came and stayed at my house.

[1110] He goes, I'll be there for like three to five days.

[1111] And he stayed for like two weeks.

[1112] Oh, that's lovely.

[1113] I'm like, yeah, can you pay rent now?

[1114] I'm just kidding.

[1115] Anyways, we became buddies.

[1116] We surfed a bunch together and stuff.

[1117] And so each year he wants to come to Hawaii for a week or two and surf.

[1118] And he told me, he's like, if I could quit everything and just go surfing, he's like, that's all I'd do the rest of my life.

[1119] I love it more than absolutely everything by a long shot.

[1120] He goes, I just don't get to do it enough.

[1121] But I heard those guys were doing the show.

[1122] And then when they started doing the surf scene, and I started talking about him, and they're like, We haven't been able to access the Mercedes.

[1123] It's more of the lower teams, and it's telling that story of the battle from below kind of thing.

[1124] I was like, that's kind of cool, because I've always thought that that would be cool to tell that story in the surf world because it's easy to go tell the story about the guys at the top, I think.

[1125] This guy started winning contests at this age.

[1126] Well, what about the guy who had to grind it out?

[1127] It's like so much more interesting.

[1128] He's sleeping on people's couches around the world.

[1129] He's asking favors.

[1130] He's borrowing cars.

[1131] Totally.

[1132] You don't have a sponsor.

[1133] You know, you've got to use prize money to get around.

[1134] around the world.

[1135] And they're surfing the stay in the tour sometimes.

[1136] Some of them are sending money back.

[1137] You know, I know a couple of my friends from Brazil, they're sending money back to their family, so they live in a favela.

[1138] It's full on.

[1139] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1140] And that story to me is like so much more gritty and interesting.

[1141] But now they're all like, oh, yeah, we'll do those.

[1142] You know, now they see the success of that and what it is for their sport.

[1143] It quadrupled Austin, right, Coda.

[1144] Oh, really?

[1145] Three years ago, 90 ,000 fans for the weekend.

[1146] We went two years ago, 400 ,000 fans.

[1147] I mean, they four fucking X the sports.

[1148] in the U .S., solely based on that.

[1149] Yeah, it's awesome.

[1150] But you know, it was crazy.

[1151] Lewis didn't participate the first couple seasons.

[1152] He participated last year.

[1153] Max didn't.

[1154] Lewis lost Max won.

[1155] There's like a weird superstition -y kind of thing that happened.

[1156] Wait, wasn't you who Ed Norton was talking about?

[1157] Yeah, Edward went with you to the surf ranch.

[1158] I hate when Ed talks behind my back, you know.

[1159] Yeah, I imagine.

[1160] He's so negative.

[1161] I think I've met him one or two times and once was on FaceTime.

[1162] He seems like I really.

[1163] really nice guy.

[1164] No, yeah.

[1165] He was just saying it was insane how sore.

[1166] And he was saying Lewis.

[1167] That was the whole thing.

[1168] He was like.

[1169] Oh, because he was with Lewis, wasn't, yeah, at the surf camp.

[1170] He's obviously.

[1171] Surf ranch, sorry.

[1172] Surf camp, how embarrassing.

[1173] Special way.

[1174] I've learned a lot this week.

[1175] I basically have had to learn.

[1176] It doesn't sound like it.

[1177] Still a lot.

[1178] Still a way to go.

[1179] Okay.

[1180] Here's a few of my kind of big global questions.

[1181] One is, do you have any sadness about the notion that all 11 of these victories are ultimately solitary.

[1182] They're not shared with a team.

[1183] That's not true, though.

[1184] I served for Quicksover during all of those, and I had a team.

[1185] I had my buddy who was basically my caddy.

[1186] I have a team of people around me. We celebrated it all together.

[1187] I wasn't doing this alone.

[1188] I want to compare it to, like, Tom Brady.

[1189] He and Runkowski are going to go out in 25 years, and they're going to sit there, and they shared the experience of victory.

[1190] I got my buddy belly, who was with me through all of them.

[1191] He was kind of like our team manager for Quicksover at the time.

[1192] not my personal manager, but he's like my best friend, and he's been there caddying my boards and helped me out for all those years.

[1193] So you do have that?

[1194] Yeah, I mean, I have a number of people.

[1195] My friend Travis, who works for me with my surfboards now, he worked with Channel Islands, who I was with 24 years.

[1196] Belly's been with Quick for over 30 years.

[1197] That was our team.

[1198] You know, I still look at all those people that were with Quicksover as my team that helped me do that.

[1199] They create an infrastructure around the world for me, helped me feel comfortable.

[1200] Okay, but I'm going to push back.

[1201] They don't have the trophy in their house.

[1202] I was alone.

[1203] No, no. No, it's not that you didn't have help.

[1204] It's that Gronkowski and Tom Brady have the ring.

[1205] They both are Super Bowl champions.

[1206] They're not part of the support team.

[1207] They shared the victory.

[1208] It's watered down.

[1209] Listen, they shared the victory.

[1210] They watered it down.

[1211] There's not as much glory.

[1212] I liked everything individual.

[1213] I would have preferred just the glory for myself.

[1214] But when you fail, you're failing all by yourself.

[1215] And when you have a team, I think there's a lot of support.

[1216] That's why I did sketch comedy nuts stand -up.

[1217] If we failed, it was fun to go backstage and go, oh, we shit the bet on that.

[1218] What did Giselle say?

[1219] He can't catch it also.

[1220] You remember that?

[1221] Oh, did she say that?

[1222] She's like, oops, I'm sorry.

[1223] I shouldn't have said that.

[1224] He didn't even catch it also.

[1225] Is there anything to the notion that it's a bizarrely lonely experience?

[1226] When I won my first world title, I was sitting in a room in Brazil on my balcony with Tom Carroll, who was like my big brother and a former world champion.

[1227] Okay.

[1228] He and I were on the balcony.

[1229] We could just barely hear the loudspeaker from the beach.

[1230] We realized that the guy who had to lose, lost.

[1231] And Tom looks at me, he goes, congratulations.

[1232] You're the world champion.

[1233] Oh, my God.

[1234] It gave me a hug.

[1235] And it was just me and him in a room.

[1236] And it was like so cool and so strange.

[1237] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1238] Because there was no one there.

[1239] The hoopla was at the beach.

[1240] Right.

[1241] And then they called me down there, and I was 20 minutes later, I was down in the crowd of 50 ,000 people.

[1242] But it was so interesting to be that separated from the moment, experiencing it by myself, which I kind of liked, and I kind of liked that about surfing.

[1243] I saw real sports a decade ago.

[1244] It's talking about the super high rate of suicide drug addiction.

[1245] With all, I'm going to put this in the category of extreme sports.

[1246] I've had a lot of friends commit suicide.

[1247] Surfers.

[1248] Right.

[1249] Yeah.

[1250] It's a crazy high number.

[1251] And it is the same in skateboarding.

[1252] It's the same in BMX.

[1253] It's the same in snowboarding.

[1254] Football.

[1255] Well, that's more of a brain injury.

[1256] Right.

[1257] We're all getting those.

[1258] We're not getting hit by another guy, but we're hitting reef.

[1259] and we're hitting concrete and we're landing on ramps.

[1260] Yeah, that's true.

[1261] Matt Hoffman.

[1262] Yes, the king.

[1263] He was telling me that he had this wipeout on the ramp and he landed at the bottom and just knocked himself out and was out for minutes.

[1264] Yeah, it's on video.

[1265] Yeah, and he got amnesia.

[1266] He said, you know, then a week or two weeks or whatever later, he still had amnesia.

[1267] And he had to go to England, I think it was, or somewhere in Europe, to go do an exhibition.

[1268] And he gets to the ramp.

[1269] He's like, what am I doing?

[1270] I literally didn't know how to ride a bike.

[1271] Oh, my God.

[1272] They get me up there and he goes, I guess this is what I do.

[1273] I don't know.

[1274] And he said he's up on like this 14 -foot vert ramp looking at it like someone who's never done it.

[1275] And he said, I'm terrified.

[1276] You know, this is how he explained it to me. Yeah.

[1277] What could be scarier?

[1278] And he said, I just went for it.

[1279] And instantly I remembered everything.

[1280] Oh, wow.

[1281] His body knew.

[1282] His mind came back.

[1283] And he's like, all of a sudden now I've got my run.

[1284] I'm doing my routine.

[1285] Yeah, I'm back.

[1286] I'm back, motherfucker.

[1287] Oh, God.

[1288] Talking about a leap of faith.

[1289] Oh, have you ever stood on a 14 -foot ramp?

[1290] Yeah, he said it was a true leap of faith, like right there, he's like, Matt's back, here we go.

[1291] Wow.

[1292] Yeah, and he's like, each time hitting the ramp, I'm kind of, my brain, my mind, my memory's coming back.

[1293] That's nuts.

[1294] Whoa.

[1295] So anyone out there who has lost their mind, just get on a ramp.

[1296] Just get right back into the thick of that.

[1297] Yeah, just drop in.

[1298] Take yourself to the precipice.

[1299] How do you think you have avoided, especially if you had an addict dad, I'm recovering an addict.

[1300] Do you think it's possible for yourself to ever not call yourself an addict?

[1301] No. Hit me. Do you have an opinion that you think that's something you can get over?

[1302] I do think it's something you get over.

[1303] You do.

[1304] Tell me. Yeah, I mean, obviously, I had an addict dad, and I've got a lot of addict friends in this world.

[1305] Yeah, yeah.

[1306] In a perfect world, I feel like you can reset the software in your brain.

[1307] With a certain known methodology, like, is there some technique you believe in?

[1308] Yeah, I don't know if I'm going to go there right now to talk about it.

[1309] Oh, shrooms?

[1310] Well, I mean, shrooms help.

[1311] Cylacin.

[1312] Plant medicines.

[1313] Uh -huh.

[1314] And I do think that it's possible for people because I know stories of people who have gone from being suicidal daily for years.

[1315] People who have been full -on drug addicts one day and the next day, completely different personality.

[1316] No desire to do drugs.

[1317] I've heard of this through ayahuasca.

[1318] I've heard about this through psilocybin.

[1319] Yeah, I know a lot of these stories.

[1320] Yeah, yeah.

[1321] We interviewed Michael Powell and I read his book.

[1322] I find it all really fascinating.

[1323] There are things out there.

[1324] I was actually thinking about today.

[1325] my desires as an 18 -year -old kid, 30 -year -old, 40 -year -old, 5 -year -old, and how they change, like, the things that interest you each day.

[1326] Yes.

[1327] You know, and your mind definitely changes with knowledge, with history, with baggage.

[1328] My appetite for chaos.

[1329] I used to have a humongous appetite for just chaos.

[1330] Yeah.

[1331] I found it everywhere.

[1332] I loved it.

[1333] Me too.

[1334] And through a relationship, you discover a lot.

[1335] A couple of years back, my girlfriend and I who've been together forever.

[1336] How long?

[1337] 15 years.

[1338] Okay, so same.

[1339] We split up kind of briefly for a little while.

[1340] to think about things but through total honesty between each other which creates humility within yourself and vulnerability it's hard to do if you don't trust someone but if you can trust someone and trust that they'll be there through the pain they feel and the hurt they experience your choices change and i think that can expand out to other things as well you know like alcohol addiction or whatever i mean i have had in my life a pull towards alcohol at times i don't feel any real urge at all to drink and now yeah i feel like i feel like i I can have a beer or I can have a drink, but I don't care to.

[1341] I do feel very comfortable in saying I don't have that as I think that will dominate my life at any point in the future.

[1342] Having had the dad you had, when you had periods where maybe objectively it was teetering on destructive, did you have that in your mind?

[1343] Were you checking yourself, policing yourself regularly?

[1344] I've checked myself forever.

[1345] I have two brothers.

[1346] They've both had some problems with drinking.

[1347] I think a lot of it is unconscious.

[1348] I think it becomes patterned in people.

[1349] If you see a family, they eat the same things.

[1350] They have the same eating patterns.

[1351] They have the same mindset.

[1352] It's the culture in their home.

[1353] It's the culture in the home.

[1354] I think with a strong will and awareness of the things that you are doing, what you're putting out in the world, how they're affecting other people, those things, if you have any kind of conscience, you can change your choices.

[1355] I believe you can get to a place where that desire can diminish and disappear.

[1356] First of all, I totally accept that people have had that experience.

[1357] I'm not someone who's like in the program and thinks it's only one.

[1358] way.

[1359] I'm happy for anyone to be having any result they want.

[1360] For me, I get to be reminded of it daily.

[1361] I'm such a hardcore addict.

[1362] That's why your sport to me makes sense.

[1363] The fucking obsession.

[1364] Hey, surfing's probably the addiction that filled that space.

[1365] Exactly.

[1366] So I could just be completely talking on my ass right.

[1367] That's what I'm saying.

[1368] Listen to me. Listen to me. The obsessive mind is a specific type of mind.

[1369] A, there's a huge latitude in how people are.

[1370] There's this great study.

[1371] They put ADHD medicine on beehives.

[1372] Well, the explorer beaves no longer go out and find a new place to get the pollen.

[1373] So that's an issue.

[1374] We need people with ADHD in our group.

[1375] We need obsessive, compulsive alcoholics in our group.

[1376] Without some of that stuff, it's kind of boring.

[1377] We don't work.

[1378] You don't wish it on people, but it creates different thoughts and those different thoughts.

[1379] Creativity.

[1380] Yes, a normal person is not putting the time into the fucking wave that you are.

[1381] What is clear is physiologically you have a disposition to have that obsession, which is great.

[1382] You've harnessed it in a very great and positive way.

[1383] I'm aware of it all day long.

[1384] If I eat...

[1385] How's your diet?

[1386] How's your sugar in the eggs?

[1387] Insane.

[1388] That's totally me. I've already had 70 grams of protein this morning and I won't have any sugar today and I'll have so much protein and I'm most comfortable living that way.

[1389] I'm not.

[1390] I'm not declared as any type of diet.

[1391] I'm not peeing on any strips or breathing and I make sure my ketosis is right.

[1392] But if I have any elated feeling and I can reverse engineer what just happened, you can bet I will repeat whatever thing I've diagnosed is giving me that elated feeling and I'll repeat it until it's dead and I've been that way since I was in all the traumas a kid you get do you get sad as it tapers off you know what I mean like if you get this elated feeling and then you do it again oh do it again and then by the end you're like this is why man it's just not a kid anymore cocaine was my main girlfriend that's what got me sober is cocaine what cocaine got you sober it forced me to get sober Yes, it got me sober I'm going to cocaine That's an amazing bumper sticker I replaced alcohol with cocaine I've been over 18 years No again Because I have the kind of mind I have I won't come down Why would I ever come down I'm the dude who would do it on Thursday night And then like you run into me on Monday I'm still I will not let go of anything That I can regulate my internal emotions with I do have pretty intense periods of unhappiness like depression intense sometimes I also accept that I've had higher highs than most people on Earth, probably.

[1393] A thousand percent.

[1394] At 50 years old, I think there's a part of me that wants to be more in the center.

[1395] You know what I say.

[1396] You gotta learn to...

[1397] No, my goal in life's to live between three and seven, which is almost impossible.

[1398] But...

[1399] Man. Yeah, 10 feels good.

[1400] Those highs are like so insane.

[1401] Yeah, so no, I get it.

[1402] But as you get older, you start recognizing to yourself.

[1403] For me, what goes up, comes down.

[1404] Occasionally, and I'll look at my...

[1405] wife or whoever I'm with them, be like, oh, I'm at a nine right now.

[1406] But I didn't manipulate the system to get to the nine, and I just accept it as a gift.

[1407] I'm no longer engineering.

[1408] That's not true.

[1409] They still get caught doing it.

[1410] I fucking relapsed two years ago.

[1411] I'm like, you know what, it's time for a fucking ten.

[1412] I've had 15 years of sevens.

[1413] Yeah, you know, people need to mess up to learn, though sometimes.

[1414] I think until you totally learn something, you just keep screwing up.

[1415] How do you want to pronounce it?

[1416] You get that lesson again.

[1417] I don't know.

[1418] If you're like this, I'll go, this whole thing's kind of funny.

[1419] I'm on earth one time Maybe I want a 10 before I die again I don't know I'm open to the idea that I don't accept That this, you know But also it is interesting that you say You're one of the rare people Who's experienced a 10 So a 2 For someone who's only living at 5 A 2 is not that drastic of a drop If you've experienced the high high The low feels way lower Yeah, it does It's a longer way to fall Yeah, I've had lows that I guess they do balance that things in some weird equation somewhere, but they suck.

[1420] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1421] This is funny enough, perfectly my last question for you, which is, if you look at any other sports athlete, depression is immediately after retirement.

[1422] It's almost, you know, you're going to be in the 90 % likelihood.

[1423] You're going to get depressed.

[1424] Yes and no. I can always go surfing somewhere great, and that fills me up pretty good.

[1425] Right.

[1426] Tens usually come along with contests, but I can get nines a few times a year.

[1427] Okay, that'll do.

[1428] I mean, it's close.

[1429] Yeah, that'll do play.

[1430] I just think that the highest couple of highs I've had have been, because you have failure, then you have success, and it lines up, and you can't believe, oh, my God, how did the universe give me this?

[1431] Well, last year, when you won Pipeline, you're getting interviewed, it's in the season two, episode one.

[1432] You say this is the most important.

[1433] I don't know the word it's you used, but you go, this is the best one I've ever had.

[1434] And I'm looking at your face, and I'm like, I 100 % believe him right now.

[1435] People who've won a bunch of times can say that each time for the moment.

[1436] But for the past year, I've had grown men come up with me, go, I was crying when you won that.

[1437] Because I'm 50.

[1438] My best friend, Shane, he came over and he was in tears.

[1439] I've never seen Shane cry of anything.

[1440] I've never seen him cry when his kids were born.

[1441] And he's like, I was bawling.

[1442] And a bunch of my friends that don't really show that side were just like, man, I was in full tears and I just was celebrating.

[1443] Because it's hopeful for everyone that it makes everyone feel like I can still do something.

[1444] My life didn't end 10 years ago.

[1445] Yeah, I hate to see people in their 30s who are not doing their thing, not eating good, not take care of themselves, not taking time for themselves, or whatever it is, that fulfills them.

[1446] And then they're just in this job they don't love, and they just have kids that are nagging, and they don't know how to address the family right.

[1447] This happens because it's just patterned from our families and from past generations and all this stuff coming forward.

[1448] I think it's important that people have their outlets and take time to and for themselves.

[1449] There are people that are super selfless and just give and give and give.

[1450] There just has to be some solace totally for yourself sometimes.

[1451] And surfers are probably a little bit selfish, like, oh, you've gotten my way on that wave.

[1452] You ruined my day.

[1453] And I'm still getting paid to go ride waves.

[1454] I can laugh about that.

[1455] So you're not afraid of retirement, that sounds like.

[1456] I don't think so.

[1457] I can't say that 100%.

[1458] My brother sent me some weird text the other night, and I was all pissed off, like, quit bothering me with this shit.

[1459] And I texted his wife, and I just said, hey, what's going on with my brother?

[1460] Like, does he talk to you about this?

[1461] And she goes, you know what?

[1462] I think he's really missing the old times when he got to travel and experience these things, and he's not getting to do it now.

[1463] And it makes him a little mad when other people do it, whatever.

[1464] And I'm like, okay, I get that.

[1465] I didn't understand.

[1466] I'm like, why did I get that text at this hour?

[1467] putting it on my shoulders, but he was really just trying to express, I miss all that, you know?

[1468] Yeah, yeah.

[1469] And it's hard to say that.

[1470] Yeah, but it's hard as a guy.

[1471] Well, it's vulnerable.

[1472] It's vulnerable, especially to your younger brother.

[1473] Oh, no, yeah.

[1474] My brother would never send that text.

[1475] I wouldn't to him either.

[1476] You know, like, figure it out.

[1477] I just yelled at you.

[1478] You tell me what's wrong.

[1479] In fact, can I please, for one second, I'm going to read you this exchange with my brother this morning?

[1480] What are you doing?

[1481] I say I'm in Hawaii.

[1482] What are you doing there?

[1483] I'm going to interview Kelly Slater.

[1484] he said oh a guy was the jack nicholson of surf i could be wrong but i think he had a shark encounter about four years ago whatever i'm a big fan ask if he has some time to give me a lesson that was a joke then he gets nervous it's a joke i said yeah i'm probably not going to ask him to do that he said yeah but then you could say so kelly slater and i were surfing in hawaii and he looks at me and says dot dot dot dot and then i finish the text dot dot dot dot dot how did i end up here i'm the most decorated athlete of all time and I have to waste an hour of my life watching this roided out 50 -year -old go for a swim.

[1485] Jesus.

[1486] There's a lot to unpack right now.

[1487] Oh, really.

[1488] I mean, he was the Jack Nicholson.

[1489] Nicholas, Nicholas.

[1490] Of surfing got attacked.

[1491] Jack Nicholus.

[1492] It was misspelled.

[1493] I think he probably voiced dictated.

[1494] I have said Nicholson before when I meant to say Jack Nicholas.

[1495] And no, I didn't get attacked by shark.

[1496] That was Mick Fanning.

[1497] And he didn't really get attacked.

[1498] He got kind of swatted by a shark.

[1499] It was really interesting.

[1500] I was surfing against Mick in South Africa at Jeffries Bay.

[1501] We have a live webcast that goes around the world, you know, in our events.

[1502] And he and I were in the semifinal, and I had the best ride of the heat.

[1503] We judged on two rides.

[1504] He had the second and third best ride, so he was ahead of me. I needed a really good score to win the heat.

[1505] But I had priority.

[1506] Priority means you get any wave you want for a period of time.

[1507] The other guy can't mess with you.

[1508] So I'd been sitting with priority for seven or eight minutes, and now there's about three or four minutes left.

[1509] And I'm like, gosh, I've waited so long.

[1510] At some point, I've got to catch a wave.

[1511] I got to commit to a wave and ride that wave.

[1512] And so this one came, my gut was telling me no, but I was like, I'm just going to try.

[1513] And I caught that wave.

[1514] It wasn't very good.

[1515] A minute later, a much better wave comes.

[1516] Mick gets that he beats me. That was the second semifinal, between the semifinal and the final, they had a half an hour break.

[1517] So I had surfed for a half an hour with Mick.

[1518] I stayed in the water for the next half an hour, and I surfed basically by myself with maybe three other people who paddle out.

[1519] Then they say, clear the water, we're going to start the final.

[1520] As I hit the beach, I look out jet skis and boats going right over to.

[1521] to the surfers.

[1522] And I said, there's only one reason that would happen that'd have to be a shark.

[1523] Because I couldn't hear the commentators because I was down the point and the speakers were aiming outward.

[1524] The camera had zoomed in on Mick as the shark gets stuck in his leash about a 12 -foot Great White and it starts flapping all around.

[1525] Oh, my God.

[1526] We don't know exactly, but we estimated it probably about a 12 -foot shark and with the tail, it slaps him in the face.

[1527] It bites his leash and cuts his leash and cuts his leash and pulls his board away from him about 20 yards.

[1528] And Mick's just swimming in the water.

[1529] It's surprising he got knocked out.

[1530] So the boats and skis zoom in and grabbed him.

[1531] Wow.

[1532] It was wild.

[1533] Do you just ignore the shark aspect?

[1534] You just don't even think about it?

[1535] Yeah, it's not a big deal.

[1536] It's like running a marathon with lions.

[1537] It's nothing.

[1538] Sure, yeah.

[1539] Who cares?

[1540] We basically have accepted that as part of our fate.

[1541] You're not going to be able to know where they all are.

[1542] Since you're so powerless over that, you have no say in whether or not you have an interaction.

[1543] Why dedicate a second of your time thinking about it?

[1544] I mean, is that the mindset?

[1545] You have fear, and there's certain places you just don't go surf.

[1546] Like you would not go and surf Plattenberg Bay in South Africa because there are more great whites there than anywhere on Earth.

[1547] Two people were killed there in last year.

[1548] And one was wading in water about knee -deep and a shot got her a couple months ago.

[1549] The other person was swimming, ocean swimming and got whacked.

[1550] There's been a bunch of attacks there, lost legs and arms and people dying.

[1551] But very few people surf there.

[1552] I took my girlfriend there last year.

[1553] There's a big peninsula, six kilometers out in the ocean, and it's a vertical cliff on one side.

[1554] and you look down, there's Great Whites everywhere.

[1555] You walk up, if you want to see Great Whites, you go to Plet.

[1556] You just take a stroll on that.

[1557] You park, and you walk three minutes, and you're looking at Great Whites.

[1558] Oh, my God.

[1559] And people surf there.

[1560] And we stopped about an hour.

[1561] We probably saw 8 to 10 Great Whites.

[1562] Oh.

[1563] And right there, right where that peninsula meets the beach, there's a wave called the wreck.

[1564] It's like a little fun wave, apparently, but I just don't think I'd ever surf it.

[1565] And I was surfing with a guy at Jeffries Bay where the thing happened with Mick, and he goes, ah, I'm from Plet.

[1566] I'm like, do you surf there?

[1567] He goes, oh, yeah, we do.

[1568] Man, one day we were out there surfing, and this giant, like, 15 -foot or bigger Great White came up at my friend.

[1569] And as it came up to his board, my friend just kind of moved his board and pushed his face off to the side, and the sharks just swam off.

[1570] That is not weird with their nose, right?

[1571] I mean, if you get something non...

[1572] There is, but there's also something like in nature, if you see your predator, if you spotted them, the game has changed.

[1573] So, like, same with sharks.

[1574] If you see a shark, face the shark.

[1575] Don't swim away frantically.

[1576] Do not.

[1577] You're a mouse to a cat.

[1578] You've got to face that thing.

[1579] You just have to.

[1580] And everything's telling you to run and go away, but you're not going to out swim a shark.

[1581] You're not going to out paddle a shark.

[1582] So if you see a shark, just face it.

[1583] And I haven't seen thousands of great whites, but I've seen thousands and thousands of sharks in my lifetime.

[1584] And I've never been bitten.

[1585] Wow.

[1586] But they're mostly small.

[1587] Look, there's 300 kinds of sharks.

[1588] There's something in three or 400 kinds of sharks on Earth.

[1589] There's only about four that you worry about.

[1590] Oceanic White Tip, Great White Tiger, and Bull sharks.

[1591] It's four of the hundreds of types of sharks.

[1592] Yeah.

[1593] The hammerheads.

[1594] Giving the rest of the sharks.

[1595] Hammerheads are rarely, most black tips, restarts.

[1596] They'll bite you if you bump into them in the murky water.

[1597] But they're not hunting you.

[1598] They're not trying to eat you.

[1599] Kelly, this was awesome.

[1600] Is there a goat you're obsessed with?

[1601] Do you have the same fascination with the goats that we do?

[1602] I've been super inspired by a lot of people.

[1603] I mean, Brady recently.

[1604] Unreal.

[1605] It's been great to watch him and what he's done.

[1606] Tiger, throughout almost my whole career.

[1607] He started about five years after me. But I've been super inspired by him.

[1608] Lance Armstrong as well.

[1609] I mean, look, obviously, he went through the whole doping thing.

[1610] Show me a guy who wasn't doping.

[1611] Yeah.

[1612] He was the best of the dopers.

[1613] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1614] You know, there was some sort of even playing.

[1615] I was a great doc where they were like, the Tour de France, the biking world, they were renegade outcasts.

[1616] They were ahead of the curve on the blood doping.

[1617] They were doing speed in the 70s.

[1618] Like, they've never been some polyandry organization to begin with.

[1619] Once it got so famous, it got a different lens.

[1620] They've always been renegades.

[1621] But, no, I get inspired.

[1622] I mean, I went and watched Kobe play a number of times, got to meet him once or twice.

[1623] Jordan was like right through the beginning of my career.

[1624] When you're watching Last Dance, this would be so hard for you to acknowledge.

[1625] But are you hearing them say things where you're like, oh my God, this fucking guy gets it?

[1626] You're not bragging.

[1627] Yeah, no, it's uncanny some of the thoughts that run parallel in the way you think about things.

[1628] What really struck me in that Last Dance was that, you know, when he put this training camp together when he was shooting the movie and all those guys showed up to come play with him.

[1629] Oh, uh -huh, yeah, yeah.

[1630] In L .A. He was studying them.

[1631] and they all allowed it.

[1632] I guess they were studying him too.

[1633] You know, so he saw everyone's tells and tendencies.

[1634] Free.

[1635] They were offering him.

[1636] He went to the war room.

[1637] The war room.

[1638] Yeah, looked at all their plans.

[1639] Yeah, I thought that was really interesting.

[1640] But they would have thought the same thing, hey, we're going to see Jordan and play with him.

[1641] Right.

[1642] I think he saw things from a different place.

[1643] Jordan was just on a different level of intensity and focus and obsession about it.

[1644] I think there's been times I felt that.

[1645] I don't feel that the same way these days.

[1646] I had an intense obsession way beyond anyone else.

[1647] through the 90s for sure, maybe that no one's ever felt in surfing.

[1648] Is it not fun to be around you when you're peak?

[1649] I don't know.

[1650] So I think some of my friends thought not, hey, can I just go to the bathroom real quick?

[1651] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1652] And then let's finish up.

[1653] Yeah, yeah, I'll land it right, yeah, go ahead.

[1654] Great picture Lincoln took.

[1655] Oh, cute.

[1656] Yeah, she did good.

[1657] She didn't take too many.

[1658] She did good.

[1659] She followed instructions.

[1660] Oh my god, she was taking bitches for a long time.

[1661] She's like four.

[1662] She was probably waiting for the moment.

[1663] That's exactly what she was supposed to do.

[1664] Oh, my God.

[1665] You said one of both of us, one of you, one of me, and on him, she did it.

[1666] Two picks of Kelly.

[1667] Oh, what a sweetie.

[1668] Half a gallon of water in the morning with this, yeah.

[1669] And that juice, don't forget that juice.

[1670] Is that what you're doing a half gallon?

[1671] No, I don't know how much.

[1672] What's your weird thing?

[1673] My weird thing?

[1674] Yeah, you asked me what I was eating, which makes me know that you're neurotic about how you eat.

[1675] Oh, no. Are you keto?

[1676] I'm kind of been keto, like fats and proteins.

[1677] I want to try it.

[1678] Yeah, well, I started off by fasting for four days on water.

[1679] Oh, God.

[1680] Yeah, water fast, I think, are incredible.

[1681] Well, how many days will you do?

[1682] I did four recently.

[1683] I've done three a few times.

[1684] I've done five or six before.

[1685] I'd like to do about a week and see how I feel.

[1686] I love health stuff.

[1687] I do get obsessive here and there about diet when I really want to see how the body is acting and functioning in different ways.

[1688] So I've done master cleanse before for like 10 days.

[1689] Did you get the mucoid plaque out?

[1690] I did.

[1691] It's freaking humble.

[1692] You know, there's a lot of people who say, if you read about it, there's a lot of people will say that the cleanse itself gives you the mucoid plaque.

[1693] There's no real mucoid plaque.

[1694] No, I totally.

[1695] I'm 100 % positive.

[1696] I disagree because.

[1697] Well, you get it.

[1698] There's no question.

[1699] It's just, did you have it prior to the diet or does all that acid make it?

[1700] No, there's no way the ass could make something that that's hard.

[1701] It's like tire rubber.

[1702] What is the deal?

[1703] So if you don't eat and you just hydrate, your colon, basically, for a long period of time.

[1704] All this lemon, cayenne, and maple syrup.

[1705] Your intestines will molt like a snake, right?

[1706] When you take a bite of food, your tongue instantly knows what you're eating, right?

[1707] And then your body reacts to it a certain way, and it sends different digestive juices down to deal with that as you eat it.

[1708] But your body also creates mucus to protect.

[1709] If you eat too many foods and it doesn't know how to deal with it, your body will create essentially more mucus.

[1710] And it kind of envelops your food.

[1711] And as that goes through, that gets stuck on your cell walls.

[1712] So there's stuff stuck in your gut for your whole life, basically.

[1713] And until you stop eating for a long period of time, that stuff won't come out.

[1714] I started getting it out in about four or five days.

[1715] I didn't have a full two weeks.

[1716] I only had about 10 days to do it.

[1717] I was drinking a couple of smooth -move teas a day.

[1718] Okay.

[1719] Over the top.

[1720] And I was doing a salt flush every morning.

[1721] Wow.

[1722] I just kind of put some kerosene on the...

[1723] Sure.

[1724] Put your foot on the gas.

[1725] On the gas, yeah.

[1726] Hit the nitrous button.

[1727] And I started, I mean, this is like...

[1728] No, we love it.

[1729] It's so funny because it's like...

[1730] We talk about poop on here.

[1731] It's almost more than any other topic.

[1732] No, it's like gross.

[1733] But at the same time, everyone who starts to hear about it is like, oh, my God, I want to do that.

[1734] Yes, exactly.

[1735] I started having things come out of my body that look like my intestines.

[1736] Yeah, yeah, right.

[1737] I'd seen it on the web.

[1738] In your YouTube videos.

[1739] I'd seen it.

[1740] And I'd heard about it and I'd read about it for years.

[1741] And I was like, gosh, I want to do that, but it takes so much discipline to commit to not eating food and to do this thing.

[1742] And then to have the drive to keep.

[1743] especially if you do it by yourself and you don't have a friend doing it at the same time.

[1744] But I remember going to the restroom and then I looked and I went like, oh my God, it's happening.

[1745] Oh, wow.

[1746] Yes, I was like so excited.

[1747] And I was like, I just pooped out my intestine.

[1748] Oh, my God, crazy.

[1749] It looks like what you see in like a medical book of your intestine.

[1750] You'll shape because this stuff has been stuck in there.

[1751] Ooh.

[1752] So you don't absorb all the nutrients that you take in.

[1753] You just don't.

[1754] Your body is caked with stuff in there.

[1755] I'm going to be on record because Bree did.

[1756] Oh.

[1757] I've read a lot of the response to that diet from the medical community.

[1758] I personally think something different is going on.

[1759] I just want to be on record.

[1760] There's two opinions here.

[1761] But it's fine.

[1762] What do you think it's going on?

[1763] A, I don't think your body has stuff stuck in the inside of it, first and foremost.

[1764] I think your body's absolutely perfect of ridding itself of toxins, people that are obsessed with toxins.

[1765] That's what your livers and kidneys are doing.

[1766] And no, I don't think there's not two pounds of red meat stuck in the average American's colon.

[1767] I think that's all horseshit.

[1768] I don't think that it's necessarily red meat.

[1769] Right, right.

[1770] I just think it's residue.

[1771] You can wash your pan off with water and all the shit didn't come off it.

[1772] You know what I mean?

[1773] You got to scrub that thing.

[1774] I know, but your pan is not an organism that is evolved.

[1775] Your pan also isn't hormonally evolving now because you're eating 50 foods at one meal and 70 ingredients or whatever it is.

[1776] We used to eat like one meal a day of like one thing.

[1777] Or maybe you find some berries.

[1778] But now you're eating a meal that might have over 100 ingredients in it.

[1779] From all over the world.

[1780] That you haven't developed.

[1781] Out of season, all that stuff.

[1782] So our bodies haven't had enough time in the last 100 years to evolve to that.

[1783] Our hormones are changing.

[1784] So there's a lot of stuff going on.

[1785] I think the fasting is super important.

[1786] I would disagree with you.

[1787] Okay.

[1788] And that's great.

[1789] And I respect you.

[1790] And so my fringe thing is, so I have psoriotic arthritis.

[1791] I have an autoimmune disease.

[1792] I cannot have it.

[1793] It's quite easy.

[1794] I just have to eat a very exact diet.

[1795] Yeah, you should go on an AIP, anti -inflammation protocol.

[1796] I've done the aerobetic cleanse.

[1797] I've done all the stuff.

[1798] So what I believe, it doesn't matter that it's called psoriotic arthritis.

[1799] It's autoimmune.

[1800] They're all the same.

[1801] Almost everyone's allergic to some of the food they're eating.

[1802] Absolutely.

[1803] No fucking clue.

[1804] I think that's the brute causes.

[1805] I heard of a woman who was allergic to lettuce.

[1806] Took her 20 years to find it out and it was causing havoc in her body.

[1807] Well, I'm telling you, for the 150 ,000 years that we've been a species, we've only had lettuce for 2 ,000 of those years.

[1808] So yes, do I believe that there are many people that are allergic to the same?

[1809] We only had skittles for like 30.

[1810] Yes, exactly.

[1811] Yeah, that's the obvious ones, but even...

[1812] And those are illegal in Europe.

[1813] Are they?

[1814] Yes.

[1815] They are?

[1816] The red dye and the yellows.

[1817] Yes.

[1818] I read this yesterday.

[1819] Our main sponsor is Skittles.

[1820] That's amazing.

[1821] That's not live, right?

[1822] I read the 10 foods that are illegal in other countries that are legal in America.

[1823] That's wild, isn't it?

[1824] Yeah.

[1825] It's not quite as interesting as books that are legal, but, you know...

[1826] Yes.

[1827] That's more scary.

[1828] So we'd have more overlap than we would have disagreement.

[1829] I think we're probably a concert, yeah, yeah, totally.

[1830] And I think we're both, look, it's back to the addiction thing.

[1831] I'm a control freak.

[1832] Oh, we've all got some control issue for sure.

[1833] So the diet, anything I can exact my will on, I'm going to do what I'm attracted to.

[1834] Like your child?

[1835] Like your child?

[1836] No, I'm pretty, that's about the only thing I'm doing well, I think.

[1837] She felt like a little free will.

[1838] I like her.

[1839] She's wild.

[1840] She rides a dirt bike.

[1841] She rides a racer.

[1842] She's kick ass.

[1843] She wouldn't surf, though, bummed out.

[1844] She said the sharks.

[1845] She's scared of it.

[1846] I could get her.

[1847] You think you could?

[1848] Yeah, I get her out there.

[1849] Because we're watching that thing, and everyone we're meeting on the show, as we're watching Make a Break, it's like Formula One.

[1850] There's no Formula One driver that didn't start carting by at least seven years old.

[1851] That's like the cutoff.

[1852] And a couple years ago, I'd go, baby, we got to get you on a cart if you're going to be F1 driver.

[1853] They say, no one has perfect pitch unless they get it by six.

[1854] I believe it.

[1855] Oh, that's interesting.

[1856] Yeah, so I told her, latest I heard in Make or Break is kids starting at 10.

[1857] TikTok, when we're in Hawaii, you've got to get out on a surfboard.

[1858] You're going to miss your window.

[1859] She's like, I'm not doing it.

[1860] She's afraid of sharks.

[1861] Anyway, really quick, just because I feel like you might relate.

[1862] Do you find yourself earning things?

[1863] Do you have this system in your head where it's like, I get to earn?

[1864] If I do this, I can have that chocolate.

[1865] Whatever thing, reward.

[1866] You have the system of sacrifice and reward.

[1867] You're psychologically conditioned.

[1868] I'm so susceptible to that.

[1869] Yes.

[1870] Yes.

[1871] I can't think of them offhand, but, I mean, it does happen a little bit here with food.

[1872] I like desserts, you know, I like ice cream.

[1873] I like sugar.

[1874] As I read about it more and more, my desire for it, disappears.

[1875] Yeah.

[1876] I've been listening to this doctor from Orlando is an Eastern Indian guy, and he highly recommends fasting and intermittent fasting and keto diet for all sorts of things.

[1877] He's a cardiologist.

[1878] Hours and hours have listened to him talk about different aspects of diabetes and insulin levels and hormonal change in the body.

[1879] And he was the one who brought that to my attention that we're hormonally evolving now.

[1880] We're not genetically evolving like we used to because it was over long, long, long periods of time.

[1881] Kelly, we're supposed to have 90 minutes of your time.

[1882] We got over two and a half hours.

[1883] and I really, really appreciate it.

[1884] This has been awesome getting to chat with you.

[1885] You'll hate this part, but you line up the goats.

[1886] There's no one that's got 11 of anything.

[1887] It's really bonkers.

[1888] We both feel very, very lucky to have met you.

[1889] It's mind -blowing what you've done.

[1890] Look, all the different outlets of sport and whatever, I mean, Phelps has 26 gold medals or something.

[1891] There's a wind surfer, which is an obscure sport in the world of all sports, but this guy Bjorn has like 23 to 26 world titles.

[1892] Oh, it does.

[1893] They have three different world titles in a year or something like that.

[1894] guy from my hometown who was in a certain style of taekwondo he has 11 world titles in that taekwondo from my same hometown oh wow it's so weird there's a name i'll throw out that maybe you don't even know who's maybe the greatest in relation to all the other guys in his sport a guy named sir donald bradman who was a cricketer like what's the best batting average ever right yeah let's say 390 or 4 yeah he had an 800 so he's just 2x than that second place he would average a century which is 100 runs yeah at bat his life Last at -bat in his career, he got like eight, and it brought him to 99 .9.

[1895] He just missed 100.

[1896] He needed like four more to get 100 average for his whole.

[1897] The next best guy ever in the history of the world is 50.

[1898] Oh, my God.

[1899] He's that much better, and he grew up hitting a bouncy ball with a stick against a corrugated wall.

[1900] So he just had this hand -eye, and he was a scratch golfer.

[1901] But when you look to the world of sport, you can't compare different sports.

[1902] You can't compare Muhammad Alita Tyson.

[1903] and the styles are different.

[1904] There was an evolutionary place where each guy was just the best at that time.

[1905] We just feel like we have bragging guys now.

[1906] I appreciate it.

[1907] I appreciate it.

[1908] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1909] I'm honored to be in the conversation.

[1910] Okay, good.

[1911] Thank you so much.

[1912] I hope I bump into you in real life so we can really obsess out together.

[1913] All right.

[1914] All right, good luck.

[1915] Are you competing tomorrow?

[1916] We won't surf tomorrow, but yes, this week.

[1917] Okay.

[1918] Maybe Monday or Tuesday.

[1919] Okay, give them another insane episode.

[1920] Okay.

[1921] For season four.

[1922] You know what?

[1923] I told you I don't obsess the same way.

[1924] I don't know how the season is going to go.

[1925] My stated goal is I'd like to make the Olympics for 24 in Tahiti.

[1926] There's a long road between here and there, and my results in the last two, three, four years haven't been enough to do that.

[1927] I started getting some good sort of motivation and feelings last few days.

[1928] Oh, good.

[1929] And so I'll just see how I go, and if I can apply myself in that same obsessive way and in a healthier way personally, I'll see if I can get to that place.

[1930] All right, wonderful.

[1931] We're rooting for you.

[1932] Thanks.

[1933] All right, be well.

[1934] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1935] Okay, I had earmarked something.

[1936] Uh -huh.

[1937] And I want your thoughts as well.

[1938] Okay.

[1939] Have you seen these really cute videos with Wobby Wob and Rachel Billson?

[1940] I saw one pop up, but I couldn't listen because I was in an appointment.

[1941] So I saw it, but I couldn't play the sound.

[1942] Okay.

[1943] I think you should take schedule to watch them all.

[1944] there's was there three there's been a couple yeah but the one I just saw was like three in a row maybe it was famous scenes from other movies when Harry met Sally the orgasm scene I was watching it in front of my family I had to turn it down really low and then say anything famous she shows up with the jam box boom box whatever you want to call it ghetto blaster and I play care nightly um amazing no she's not insane anything or no sorry that was love actually yeah oh Oh, yeah.

[1945] And then you did Love Actually.

[1946] Mm -hmm.

[1947] Yeah.

[1948] So Wabi Wob has a better acting career than both of us.

[1949] He's in two -handers in rom -coms with Rachel Billson.

[1950] That's right.

[1951] And when I watch them, I am, first I'm overwhelmed with how cute Wobby Wob looks on screen.

[1952] Really cute sweater in that second.

[1953] Ooh.

[1954] That was the Rachel's.

[1955] Was it?

[1956] Yeah, yeah.

[1957] You need to wear that.

[1958] Wait, what was it?

[1959] She's a white sweater that said, wow.

[1960] Oh, cool.

[1961] That's so cute.

[1962] He looks so cute.

[1963] And it's like, I kind of know he does something with Rachel.

[1964] But I'm shook when I see that he and Rachel have this special relationship where they make videos together.

[1965] Well, you have a podcast, right?

[1966] I guess I'm jealous in ways.

[1967] Oh, okay.

[1968] I feel like he's cheating on us a little bit because he has this exciting life.

[1969] Sure.

[1970] With this leading lady that doesn't involve us.

[1971] Yeah.

[1972] Yeah.

[1973] That's true.

[1974] What do you think about it?

[1975] I think I...

[1976] Be honest.

[1977] Well, I guess I feel like I'm in a weird position Okay.

[1978] Because I'm not jealous.

[1979] Okay.

[1980] And then that seems bad that I'm not jealous.

[1981] Oh, no, no. You're not mad she's not jealous.

[1982] No, it's okay.

[1983] I prefer you not.

[1984] I feel safe that we're priority.

[1985] Yeah.

[1986] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1987] So.

[1988] I think I'm jealous.

[1989] Like, I've never been in a scene with Rachel Bilsen.

[1990] Wait.

[1991] So you're jealous of me?

[1992] Yeah, yeah, jealous of you.

[1993] You're jealous that he gets to spend time with Rachel.

[1994] Well, just that he's, they're scene partners, you know?

[1995] You've had a lot of really good scene partners.

[1996] Incredible.

[1997] Just because I've had more than my fill doesn't mean I would not get jealous of wabi wop.

[1998] Okay, okay.

[1999] Right?

[2000] Sure.

[2001] Well, now I am upset.

[2002] Now you're jealous.

[2003] Now you're mad at me. Yeah, now I'm jealous, but I can't figure out of what?

[2004] You're jealous of my jealousy somehow.

[2005] I would love, I can, I'll make some videos with you if you want.

[2006] I would love that.

[2007] They're fun.

[2008] Look what you've signed yourself on to.

[2009] Really, I'm just being cute.

[2010] I'm not actually upset.

[2011] I'm delighted.

[2012] Oh, me too.

[2013] And I think it's hilarious that...

[2014] I need to go back and watch with sound.

[2015] You must.

[2016] Yeah.

[2017] He does a great job.

[2018] I said to him, you're leaving radio and getting into film, which is the normal trajectory.

[2019] Sure.

[2020] And we left film and we're now getting into radio.

[2021] That's right.

[2022] Although I'm not giving up on film.

[2023] I'm still interested in that SAG insurance.

[2024] I don't want to take it off the table.

[2025] Yes, for sure, for sure.

[2026] Are you guys paying people?

[2027] But our main commitment.

[2028] SAG for these videos?

[2029] Because I will appear if you'll pay my rate.

[2030] If it goes through the union.

[2031] Yeah.

[2032] He's like one hour dick around on Saturday morning videos.

[2033] They're really good.

[2034] Oopsies.

[2035] We got a bit of a panic on my doorstep right now, which is, as you know, they don't sell my chewing tobacco anymore in California.

[2036] and it's illegal to sell flavored chewing tobacco.

[2037] And Kristen's dad had sent me like three logs at Christmas of it, which was great.

[2038] And then I'm like, well, they'll run out.

[2039] But I am going to Colorado, where I will be able to get more.

[2040] Okay, yeah.

[2041] But I'm not going to make it.

[2042] I now have some shreds in here, and it's a little bit of a, you know, ticking time clock here.

[2043] So you have to make a decision.

[2044] I know.

[2045] Yeah.

[2046] quit or go get some other weird product.

[2047] I mean, we know what the right answer is, just whether or not I'll pursue that answer.

[2048] Okay, there was an Easter egg from last time, which was, because this is Kelly Slater.

[2049] Oh, it is?

[2050] Mm -hmm.

[2051] Oh, I've got to say I've been asked more about, oh, what's he like?

[2052] Have you?

[2053] A lot of people ask, yes.

[2054] Yes, more than, like, in general when we interview people.

[2055] Yeah.

[2056] They'll just like, they'll hear that and then they don't have many, like, what's he like?

[2057] But I've gotten a lot of what's he like.

[2058] Yes, agreed.

[2059] Okay, but the Easter egg was because you were talking about fun days in your life and you were saying Ed Sheeran in London.

[2060] Now, we did say on this episode that this was the first time we traveled for a guest.

[2061] Which is true.

[2062] It's true, but we have interviewed people.

[2063] While we were away.

[2064] Yes.

[2065] Yeah, but we've never flown somewhere.

[2066] specifically to interview somebody, barring live shows you could argue as well.

[2067] We're flying somewhere to interview someone.

[2068] Right.

[2069] But, yes, this is the first of this.

[2070] This is the first of that.

[2071] But we did, yeah, we did London, New York.

[2072] We've done some.

[2073] But yes, this was the first time that we went specifically.

[2074] And it was great.

[2075] I got to say, maybe it was in the episode, but the very kind people at Apple were so helpful to us.

[2076] We got there and there was a sofa and two chairs.

[2077] and like little sound curtains and they tried to set it up as much as they could like the attic and they made a lot of effort.

[2078] I thought you and I were going to be in a conference room on three folding chairs and it was going to be very weird.

[2079] Yeah, and it was beautiful.

[2080] Cavernous.

[2081] I was a fair it was going to be cavernous.

[2082] Yeah, we were a little worried about sound but it was perfect because we were at Turtle Bay.

[2083] Yes.

[2084] And it was, you know, it's an incredible hotel, but it's a hotel, so we're like, we don't know what we're in for.

[2085] Yeah.

[2086] And we thought of it.

[2087] if we invited him to one of our rooms, he would be nervous.

[2088] Yeah.

[2089] And he should have been.

[2090] I do wish we had some sounds of the water.

[2091] Well, so that was pitched to us that we could have perhaps, although it was dicey weather.

[2092] It rained most of the time we were there.

[2093] It rained a lot, yeah.

[2094] So probably couldn't have done it.

[2095] But then I thought, yeah, is that something that would be cool to have in the background?

[2096] Or would it get annoying after a couple hours?

[2097] this goes back to my overall thoughts about living on the ocean.

[2098] Some people are so attracted to living on the ocean.

[2099] Many people here in California, they live in Malibu.

[2100] Yep.

[2101] Let me ask you your thoughts about living on the ocean.

[2102] No desire.

[2103] No desire.

[2104] And for what reason?

[2105] You know, I'm not a water baby.

[2106] You know this.

[2107] Not positive you can swim.

[2108] Yeah.

[2109] I just don't need that in my life.

[2110] I like vacations where I'm around it, but I don't, I just don't need like to wake up next to the ocean every day.

[2111] I love a lake and I actually do like when you occasionally hear the lapping of the water on the shore, but relentless waves, particularly where we were at, it was great for a week.

[2112] Very dramatic.

[2113] But the waves were fucking enormous and they were endless, relentless, not terribly calming to me. A lot of people find that really calming.

[2114] I start getting obsessed with the notion, wow, that noise will never stop.

[2115] Oh, that's for eternity that noise.

[2116] That, I get real squirly about that.

[2117] Yeah, it's a little claustrophic.

[2118] Like, it's never, there's never going to be a moment of silence.

[2119] Yeah.

[2120] Yeah, that's scary.

[2121] It makes me feel claustrophobic.

[2122] Yeah.

[2123] And you could die.

[2124] It's a sound that you know could kill you a little bit.

[2125] That is true.

[2126] Especially these waves.

[2127] Well, look, while we were there, there was a 50 -foot wave.

[2128] The Eddie was served.

[2129] Yeah, that was a big deal.

[2130] Biggins.

[2131] Lifeguard.

[2132] Lifeguard.

[2133] Right after that, we got home in someone fucking.

[2134] surfed.

[2135] I think it's in Portugal, that crazy wave.

[2136] There was a documentary about it.

[2137] It's really good.

[2138] 110 foot wave.

[2139] No. You should see the picture of the guy.

[2140] He's a speck on this enormous building.

[2141] 10 -story building he's writing on the side of it.

[2142] I want to say it was a record.

[2143] Matador?

[2144] No, that's a different maybe.

[2145] I don't know shit about surfing, Monica.

[2146] I think it was pretty obvious during the idea.

[2147] I don't think you have to know everything about the sport.

[2148] No. It's okay.

[2149] But, you know, sport does become this real obvious test of masculinity all the time.

[2150] Like, it is such a gauge of your masculine.

[2151] Like, if you don't know about football and guys are talking about football, I think most guys in that situation, they feel a little masculated.

[2152] Yeah.

[2153] There's so many sports, you know.

[2154] I know just enough about football maybe to not feel crazy.

[2155] Just enough about baseball.

[2156] I don't really, I don't know much about many sports.

[2157] I mean, how would we rank them?

[2158] We'd say football is.

[2159] The most masculine, generic, stereotypical.

[2160] Yeah, in America, yes.

[2161] So I guess, like, then, if you didn't know about baseball, I guess.

[2162] Yeah, yeah.

[2163] And then probably basketball.

[2164] I think I might flip those.

[2165] Yeah, I would maybe flip those too.

[2166] Okay, let's flip them.

[2167] It's just...

[2168] I think culturally basketball has been more significant.

[2169] Current.

[2170] Currently, baseball has been the national sport, the national pastime.

[2171] Babe Ruth, you know, very few people know the legendary, the Bill Russell's of the basketball world.

[2172] Yeah, it's not so much about like how important it is.

[2173] It's like the reflection of masculinity.

[2174] Yeah.

[2175] Of whether you know stuff or not.

[2176] Yeah.

[2177] I feel like men feel like they have to know a little bit about what's going on in basketball.

[2178] They do.

[2179] Yeah.

[2180] It's a funny thing because women, right, you don't feel any urge to know about any sport.

[2181] No. It's so silly.

[2182] So like even I picked up enough stuff.

[2183] from watching the dock, but then the other night at dinner with Ryan and Charlie, they were asking, what's he like?

[2184] Yeah.

[2185] And then they started talking about surfing.

[2186] It was like, they knew so much more than I. They knew.

[2187] Oh, yeah, because they're from San Diego.

[2188] Oh, right, right.

[2189] And they both served.

[2190] I think a lot of people don't know about surfing and don't know the specifics of it.

[2191] I think you're right.

[2192] Yeah, I think you're fine.

[2193] But it is really interesting once you start learning about it.

[2194] Yes.

[2195] I enjoy that.

[2196] Again, though, I would really have a very hard.

[2197] hard time in life committing to a sport that relied on judges scoring.

[2198] That just scares me. Yeah, I know.

[2199] Like racing.

[2200] There's like, there's no question.

[2201] But you like skateboarding and that's that.

[2202] Yeah, I do like skateboarding.

[2203] Yeah.

[2204] More like all those sports.

[2205] As far as committing my life and my livelihood to it, that part would make me nervous.

[2206] That's not definitive.

[2207] Yeah.

[2208] Okay, it should be known.

[2209] Lincoln took the pictures.

[2210] Oh, my God.

[2211] What a great thing to talk about.

[2212] Yes.

[2213] We brought her to take pictures for us.

[2214] She filled him for Wabiwob.

[2215] Yes.

[2216] And we talked about it beforehand.

[2217] Uh -huh.

[2218] She had done some research.

[2219] She did.

[2220] She went the night before.

[2221] And looked at some of the other pictures.

[2222] Yeah.

[2223] And she knew what she had to get.

[2224] But what was really funny and super cute.

[2225] So cute.

[2226] She was photographing for a while, a few minutes.

[2227] I didn't kick her out for like three or four, five minutes maybe.

[2228] She was moving about the area.

[2229] And then I said, all right, thanks, buddy.

[2230] And she left.

[2231] And then when I got the camera, there was only one picture of each.

[2232] I assumed she was taking lots of lots of pictures.

[2233] There was one picture of Kelly, and there was one picture of you and one picture of me. Which we said that's what we need.

[2234] Yep.

[2235] So she followed instructions perfectly.

[2236] We should have told her like shoot like crazy.

[2237] Yeah.

[2238] But she was probably standing there to get like what she thought was the right, which I like.

[2239] She did need to get it, like, at a good time.

[2240] Yes.

[2241] So I think she did great.

[2242] It was so sweet and cute.

[2243] But then when I saw right before we wrapped up, I noticed there was only three pictures.

[2244] So then I had to take a bunch of Kelly just from where I was sitting.

[2245] Yes.

[2246] Yeah, you wanted some extras on deck.

[2247] I think she killed it.

[2248] He was in beer ritz surfing.

[2249] He talks about beer rits.

[2250] And I was just in beer rits.

[2251] Where is beer rits?

[2252] Beer rits.

[2253] And it's not berits?

[2254] It's called beer rits.

[2255] It is in France, but it's right, it's like on the border of Spain.

[2256] Okay.

[2257] So when we were in Spain, we drove to Beeritz.

[2258] You did?

[2259] And what was Be Ritz like?

[2260] It's a surfing town.

[2261] Like, it's very, it's really cute, beach town.

[2262] Bohemian?

[2263] Yeah, but French and Spanish, like European.

[2264] It's a very cool vibe.

[2265] I liked it a lot.

[2266] We spent the day there.

[2267] What kind of rental car did you?

[2268] Oh, I had diarrhea there.

[2269] You did.

[2270] Oh, wow.

[2271] And it was a bad situation because I had to like find a bathroom.

[2272] Sure.

[2273] And were you letting them in on what was going on?

[2274] My I was.

[2275] Yeah.

[2276] Were you telling them?

[2277] No. You're just like I got to pee?

[2278] I think I was like.

[2279] I don't blow my nose.

[2280] We have a find a place for me to blow my nose quick.

[2281] I think I just was like, oh, I got to find a bathroom quick.

[2282] I didn't say quick.

[2283] I didn't, yeah.

[2284] I don't want to give it away, although now I seem perfect.

[2285] fine talking about it.

[2286] It's when you're in it, it's so embarrassing.

[2287] Yep.

[2288] But after it's fine.

[2289] That's right.

[2290] Although some people don't have any problems saying that.

[2291] But I just, I guess it's in me. It's wired in me. That is embarrassing.

[2292] Yeah.

[2293] Yeah.

[2294] The trick is like you're not going to get out of being embarrassed.

[2295] What you have to do or what I do is I fast forward to the fact that in two weeks I'll think this is funny.

[2296] I just have the faith.

[2297] that like this thing that's happening I'm gonna think is funny in two weeks I might as well now might as well just fast forward It's so weird because I was with Cali Like of all people You've diaried in front of her a million times No I mean you've lived together If you say it is that gonna make you need to do it more Like once you commit to needing to go poop Your body like starts preparing for it It wasn't it had already prepared Like it was ready Yeah, it was in the chamber.

[2298] I had to go.

[2299] Where did you find?

[2300] I think I tried to get into a few restaurants.

[2301] Oh, boy.

[2302] Yeah, I started to get panicky.

[2303] And then I, like, did finally find this bathroom in this restaurant.

[2304] I think I accidentally walked into the men's at first.

[2305] That's where you should do your diarrhea in the men's.

[2306] I know.

[2307] Let's keep the ladies playing.

[2308] But I couldn't.

[2309] And then everyone laughed because, like, you know, they're European and they laugh at you.

[2310] And then I had to stand in line.

[2311] But you're a monseur.

[2312] Exactly.

[2313] And then I had to stand in line.

[2314] I mean, that is the like, this is the test of your body.

[2315] Rectal strength.

[2316] Yeah.

[2317] Your fortitude.

[2318] But no accidents.

[2319] No. Okay.

[2320] No accidents.

[2321] I don't want you to have an accident because I don't want you to be sad, but I really want you to have an accident.

[2322] No. Yes, because it'll be such a great story.

[2323] I know you.

[2324] Think how much you like other people's accident stories.

[2325] I mean, sure.

[2326] But I think you live your life for stories a little more than I do.

[2327] Yeah, probably.

[2328] I think so.

[2329] And I think it's okay to not.

[2330] Yeah, sure.

[2331] So.

[2332] Yeah, that's a good assessment.

[2333] Yeah, I agree.

[2334] So anyhow, anyway, I just remember that.

[2335] I totally forgot.

[2336] Yeah.

[2337] But beer it's.

[2338] That's your main memory of the place.

[2339] And I really wanted this olive oil.

[2340] Cali and Max convinced me not to buy, and I was pretty mad at them.

[2341] But they were like, it's kind of spill in your luggage, and, like, you can probably get that at home.

[2342] And I was like, no, I want this.

[2343] And then I listened to them, and they were right.

[2344] Oh, good.

[2345] You're not resentful.

[2346] I've seen it, like, out here a lot.

[2347] Oh, okay, right.

[2348] At, like, surlidop.

[2349] Yeah, sure.

[2350] So it was the right decision.

[2351] Kind of pedestrian olive oil at the end of the day.

[2352] Yeah, yeah.

[2353] But I thought it was fancy.

[2354] Oof, I can get swindled, you know.

[2355] By now I've gone to.

[2356] to the Monster Jam in Anaheim.

[2357] That's right.

[2358] You have.

[2359] Yes.

[2360] And I've gone and I took Lincoln and Ace and Hank.

[2361] And now.

[2362] Who's Hank?

[2363] Henry Lincoln's best friend.

[2364] Oh, cute.

[2365] First time I had the wherewithal to say, oh, would you like to bring a buddy?

[2366] You know, she's got that age now where maybe she wants to bring a buddy.

[2367] Yep.

[2368] And then all the times I went, my mom, she didn't end up taking me to the monster trucks in the truck bowls and mud bogs.

[2369] It was a birthday present, but I primarily went with my friend Clay and his dad because they went a lot.

[2370] And so grateful I got invited because I wanted to go so bad.

[2371] So now we brought Henry, this past tense.

[2372] Oh, sure, yeah.

[2373] He had the best time of his entire life.

[2374] Oh, wow, best day of his life.

[2375] And then Sonny and Clay joined last week.

[2376] Yeah, Clay and his son.

[2377] Yes.

[2378] Anything memorable happened?

[2379] Yes.

[2380] Well, I was the Grand Marshal.

[2381] I don't know if I told you that.

[2382] Yeah.

[2383] I am the Grand Marshal.

[2384] Wow.

[2385] Yeah, Saturday night I'm the Grand Marshal.

[2386] So what does that mean?

[2387] What do you do?

[2388] I think I waved some flags and kicked the thing off.

[2389] Cool.

[2390] Some of the past Grand Marshals they sent me were Chris.

[2391] Hamsworth?

[2392] No, the other, the big, your favorite.

[2393] Pratt.

[2394] Oh, cool.

[2395] Yeah.

[2396] And then, listen to this.

[2397] You know how I've been wanting to go to SoFi so bad?

[2398] Yep.

[2399] Well, Monster Jam's going to Sofi in April, and I'm going to go and get to drive the monster truck.

[2400] Wow.

[2401] Do you going to let me drive one?

[2402] So that's exciting.

[2403] I wonder what that's going to feel like.

[2404] Driving the monster truck?

[2405] Yeah.

[2406] My understanding of it is like you drive in a big bungee contraption.

[2407] Like it's too much downforce upon landing these big jumps.

[2408] They're in like full bungee.

[2409] You're going to jump?

[2410] I doubt they're going to let me jump.

[2411] But you know if it's even slightly an option, I'm going to try.

[2412] Oh, my God.

[2413] Yeah, of course.

[2414] I want a wheelie.

[2415] I want to jump.

[2416] Oh, Jesus.

[2417] I want to do a helicopter.

[2418] Oh, my God.

[2419] Okay, he mentioned that Giselle said he can't catch it also.

[2420] Mm -hmm.

[2421] Did you find that?

[2422] Yeah, I guess it was an issue.

[2423] Sure.

[2424] They always try to make an issue out of the women saying anything.

[2425] Like, remember when you may or may not remember this, but Aaron Rogers was dating.

[2426] Shailene Wood.

[2427] Yeah, Shailene Woodley.

[2428] Well, he's had a bunch of girlfriends, and every time he has one, if he does bad, They blame the girlfriend.

[2429] This is like the most common thing.

[2430] And then maybe Jessica Simpson was dating one of the guy, one of these quarterbacks for a while, and then he was doing bad, and it was her fault.

[2431] Of course.

[2432] Yeah, J. Cutler and Kristen Cavaleri.

[2433] Okay, is that also a thing?

[2434] Yeah.

[2435] Okay.

[2436] Okay, so I guess this was the Super Bowl 2012.

[2437] So the Giants beat the Patriots.

[2438] And I guess after the game, she was caught on camera defending him.

[2439] Uh -huh, which is sweet.

[2440] Yes.

[2441] And she said, my husband can't fucking throw the ball and catch the ball at the same time.

[2442] Uh -huh.

[2443] If he could, they would be undefeated.

[2444] Yeah, so I guess I misunderstood when Kelly was talking about it.

[2445] I thought he was saying, she was saying, like, it's not a one -man sport.

[2446] Like, he can't catch it.

[2447] So it takes a team, like in a way that, It's actually humbling of like, it's not just Tom.

[2448] Everyone's a part of this.

[2449] Yeah, I interpret, how do you interpret it now?

[2450] Well, now it's obvious.

[2451] She was mad.

[2452] He's perfect.

[2453] Yes.

[2454] He's both those didn't catch his great passes.

[2455] Yes.

[2456] Yeah, that's what it sounds like.

[2457] Which is pretty funny.

[2458] Well, look, when you're on the team, you can't throw anyone or a bus.

[2459] You can't.

[2460] You win together, you die together.

[2461] Although at my cheerleading competition, when a girl put her knees down, it was her fault.

[2462] We thought we were going to lose, and I was.

[2463] going to be really mad at her.

[2464] You are.

[2465] Do you think people would have blamed her to her face?

[2466] Probably.

[2467] I think so.

[2468] Yeah, young girls.

[2469] I think we would have tried not to, but wouldn't have been able to help it.

[2470] You would have found a way to passive -aggressively mention it.

[2471] Yeah, or just give her, like, I did a bad face.

[2472] You would have said something like, listen, don't, don't beat yourself up that.

[2473] You lost the match for us.

[2474] So you'd be able to both tell her she lost it for you and act nice.

[2475] I would not do that.

[2476] Okay.

[2477] I'm not, or I wasn't like that then.

[2478] Like, I'm not making people feel better.

[2479] Okay.

[2480] But I'm not like, how dare you?

[2481] I have my own issues.

[2482] Well, you got your own work to worry about.

[2483] Yeah, it's like if I perform, I feel like everyone else has performed.

[2484] You're not in charge of team morale.

[2485] No, I'm not the captain.

[2486] It's not your position.

[2487] You're the high flyer.

[2488] That's something I'd do in the time machine.

[2489] What?

[2490] Go to your state championship.

[2491] Aw.

[2492] Watch you fly through the air.

[2493] That would be sweet if you were there.

[2494] It's really kind of a counterintuitive thing because you're so safe.

[2495] I know.

[2496] And you're fearful of physical things.

[2497] I am.

[2498] It would be so wild for me to watch you do that.

[2499] I know.

[2500] I think it might change your opinion of me somehow.

[2501] Because I am.

[2502] It is scary.

[2503] But I care more about.

[2504] Victory.

[2505] Yeah, I guess.

[2506] Yeah.

[2507] I just don't swim and jump off.

[2508] Yeah, you're not trying to jump off things.

[2509] You're not out skiing.

[2510] Well, I was in high school, and I was hurting my knees back to, and you're out skiing right now.

[2511] That's right.

[2512] I'm flying home right now from skiing.

[2513] Yeah.

[2514] I had a great trip.

[2515] Oh, my God.

[2516] Such a fun trip.

[2517] Yeah.

[2518] Anything memorable happened?

[2519] Yeah.

[2520] Yes, Aaron shit his pants.

[2521] Oh, and he didn't mind telling you, of course not.

[2522] Well, I learned he shit his pants because he was laughing so hard all of a sudden.

[2523] I was like, why is he in the middle of the hill laughing?

[2524] so hard.

[2525] Yeah.

[2526] And they said, Dad, I just shit my pants.

[2527] Yeah.

[2528] Yeah, this is the this is a different.

[2529] I don't know if it's a gender difference or if it's just me. I'm sure it's just me. I'm sure it's both.

[2530] Yeah, who knows.

[2531] Who knows?

[2532] Who can know?

[2533] Anyway, well, that is that for Kelly.

[2534] Oh, that's it.

[2535] Yeah.

[2536] There was no big fackies?

[2537] Not really.

[2538] I do think he's very humble.

[2539] That was my sort of takeaway.

[2540] He really was not, even when you were saying, you know, it's a solo sport, he was really trying to not accept that it was a solo sport.

[2541] And it is.

[2542] It's a solo sport.

[2543] But he really wanted.

[2544] Just to fact check him on that.

[2545] Yes.

[2546] It's definitely a solo sport.

[2547] But he's very impressive.

[2548] He's 50 and winning stuff.

[2549] And it's, that's amazing.

[2550] I mean, that is incredible.

[2551] In addition, yes.

[2552] In addition to him having the 11 titles, and he tried to downplay it because he is humble.

[2553] It's very sweet.

[2554] but it's it's really you know Jordan has six championships you just can't really fun I think Bill Russell might have had 11 championships but it's just unheard of but the thing that forget the championships nobody was doing their sport at 50 and winning I know yeah there's no Formula One driver there's never going to be a 50 year old that's gonna fucking take the checkered flag I know at 50 Tom Brady was getting close to like, this is impossible and great.

[2555] But still, he's 45.

[2556] Right.

[2557] Yeah, the 50 years old winning pipeline is really just something to be marveled.

[2558] It really is.

[2559] It's really cool when we get to talk to people who are on that level.

[2560] That for centuries people will reference in history as the greatest surfer of all time.

[2561] Yeah.

[2562] Yeah, it's really cool.

[2563] Yeah, Bill Russell got 11, but it was in 13th seasons.

[2564] So it's still in a confined amount of time.

[2565] Oh, right.

[2566] Now, the great thing about, by the way, have you watched the documentary about him, that's out?

[2567] I haven't either, but I can't wait to start it.

[2568] Do you know who Bill Russell is?

[2569] I mean, I know who he is.

[2570] I don't.

[2571] He was a Celtics basketball player, probably the best basketball player of all time.

[2572] He was playing in segregation.

[2573] So they would go travel, and he couldn't stay with the team.

[2574] He couldn't go into places.

[2575] Oh, my God.

[2576] He lived, he played through that and was the best.

[2577] but even crazier, it's the only time it's ever happened.

[2578] He was the coach of the team while he was the player.

[2579] Oh, my God.

[2580] He was coaching these championship teams and playing.

[2581] Wow.

[2582] That's the only thing that makes me sad is like you kind of, as much as we think like, oh, well, Jordan, no, no, no, we'll ever forget Jordan.

[2583] It's like, well, no, we had Jordan.

[2584] Really, we had Jordan times two.

[2585] Why don't we do that?

[2586] I don't know.

[2587] Well, luckily this documentary just came out.

[2588] I haven't watched it yet, but I can't wait.

[2589] But, you know, if someone like that, that person was, was, more than Jordan.

[2590] And you don't know his name.

[2591] 90 % of people don't know his name.

[2592] Yeah, yeah.

[2593] It was the 50s and 60s.

[2594] So maybe just time.

[2595] Yeah.

[2596] That's just kind of sad.

[2597] Yeah.

[2598] It's like when Jay Leno was here saying he was watching them take down an Elvis statue.

[2599] Yeah, because people didn't know.

[2600] They didn't know who we was.

[2601] That's bonkers.

[2602] I can't even wrap my head around that.

[2603] People know Elvis.

[2604] Well, especially now because he's had a resurgence between the movie and the doc.

[2605] Yeah, I guess that's true.

[2606] But look, we, um, my.

[2607] My nephews are here through marriage.

[2608] And we're talking to Ben.

[2609] He is a 16 -year -old boy.

[2610] Does not know who Angelina Jolie is.

[2611] No. Yes.

[2612] Wait, are you serious?

[2613] Yeah, dead serious.

[2614] When I came home last night, that's what they were talking about.

[2615] The older sister was making fun of him.

[2616] Kristen's like, we were talking, we don't have one known thing in common.

[2617] He doesn't know who Angelina Jolie is.

[2618] And I was like, man, this is getting stark from my perspective.

[2619] Well, it's kind of the thing I was saying about the Super Bowl commercial.

[2620] and Caddyshack.

[2621] I'm like, who knows about that that's watching this?

[2622] Who's getting this?

[2623] They did so many throwbacks this year, too.

[2624] They did.

[2625] It was the year of throwbacks.

[2626] One thing we didn't talk about that I want to address, I feel bad that we overlooked it in our debrief of the commercials is, I love them so much.

[2627] What's his name?

[2628] From Top Gunn.

[2629] Miles Teller.

[2630] Did you see the Miles Teller commercial?

[2631] You didn't, Monica?

[2632] We pull it up right now.

[2633] Oh, sure.

[2634] I'm going to predict that you're, well, what?

[2635] What do you love him out of ten right now before you do this?

[2636] Oh.

[2637] Be honest.

[2638] I like him a lot.

[2639] Eight.

[2640] And eight.

[2641] Okay.

[2642] Now I want you to watch this commercial, and then I want you to give me a score.

[2643] Okay.

[2644] I think he's one of the most attractive human beings on planet Earth.

[2645] Is it Bud Light?

[2646] Yeah.

[2647] The estimated whole time is now less than 96 minutes.

[2648] We thank you for your patience.

[2649] Sorry, are you still there?

[2650] Yes.

[2651] Okay, please hold.

[2652] It's very cute.

[2653] Oh, he's so cute.

[2654] He's so cute.

[2655] He's so cute.

[2656] Oh, I love what he's dressed, too.

[2657] I love his Levi's, his worn out Levi's, and his sweater.

[2658] Yes.

[2659] And his dance moves are confident and fun.

[2660] They are.

[2661] Oh, my God.

[2662] It had me swirling.

[2663] Wow.

[2664] Yeah, that one got me. Okay, that's great.

[2665] Okay, Miles Teller.

[2666] I see you.

[2667] I do.

[2668] I like him a lot.

[2669] I see you, Myelter.

[2670] He's very charming.

[2671] Oh, my gosh, who is it?

[2672] That's a ding, ding, ding.

[2673] Is it Miles Teller?

[2674] Yeah.

[2675] Oh, my God, let's see what he has to say.

[2676] He's calling to say he's hot.

[2677] Wait, who is it?

[2678] It was spam.

[2679] Oh, and it rings on your computer like that?

[2680] Yeah.

[2681] Oh, wow, cool.

[2682] I think we've had this conversation like seven times during the fact.

[2683] It happens a lot.

[2684] I get so many spam calls.

[2685] You're not, well, part of the reason I think.

[2686] I'm not deliating.

[2687] I don't want to blame the victim.

[2688] I don't want a victim shame here.

[2689] But you've got to take the time to block those.

[2690] Because a lot of them are repetitive, I'm sure.

[2691] I did.

[2692] And it just was never stopping.

[2693] So I thought, why am I adding another layer of wasted time?

[2694] Yes.

[2695] I just hit you with a theory yesterday.

[2696] And you didn't really buy in too much.

[2697] I'm going to maybe, we know your opinion, but I would like to hear Wabi Wabs.

[2698] Okay.

[2699] It has crossed my mind because I have blocked at this point, for sure, over a thousand numbers.

[2700] I'm blocking them nonstop.

[2701] First of all, people get my number, random people in America, because it's online.

[2702] I'm blocking over a thousand numbers blocked My thought is these numbers turn over Like people don't always have numbers Especially these companies they're getting these numbers That Robo call you I think eventually someone's gonna Someone that I really know is gonna get one of these numbers And then they're never gonna be able to get through to me If you've got a thousand blocked that That's true because it's usually area code base Like I'll get spam calls from Chicago numbers And that's why I know Yes, some friend of yours at some point You may end up with one of those numbers.

[2703] They're never going to be able to get a hold of you.

[2704] I can buy that.

[2705] They're going to.

[2706] Does it block text, too, if you blocked that in a way?

[2707] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2708] Well, it's kind of funny that you brought up Elvis because you also brought up Colonel Parker in this episode.

[2709] Oh, sure.

[2710] Because his manager was kind of Colonel Parker.

[2711] He was trying to get him into show business.

[2712] Yes.

[2713] It's so funny.

[2714] Do you think he went and listened to the Pam interview?

[2715] I don't know.

[2716] Yeah, I'm curious.

[2717] He said he hadn't talked to her in a long time, but he was in touch with the sons.

[2718] And did he also say he's never listened to a podcast?

[2719] Was he one of the many people?

[2720] He doesn't listen to them very much, but he has.

[2721] He knew what a podcast was.

[2722] Yeah.

[2723] A lot of our guests have never heard a podcast.

[2724] I mean like two.

[2725] Okay.

[2726] That's not really a lot.

[2727] I don't think that's a lot.

[2728] Out of a lot of guests.

[2729] Yeah.

[2730] Yeah.

[2731] All right.

[2732] All right.

[2733] Well, I hope you're having a safe.

[2734] flight home right now.

[2735] Thank you.

[2736] Aaron's meeting you there.

[2737] He's meeting me there.

[2738] Yeah, yeah.

[2739] Have so much fun.

[2740] All right.

[2741] Love you.

[2742] Love you.

[2743] Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[2744] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

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