Waiting for the Immigration Raids

[0] From the New York Times, I'm Michael Bavarro.

[1] This is the Daily.

[2] Today, this past weekend, immigration officials were scheduled to begin arresting and deporting thousands of undocumented immigrants who had been ordered to leave the United States, but had remained anyway.

[3] On Friday evening, we spoke to one woman who feared she was on the list.

[4] It's Monday, July 15th.

[5] Hi, is this Herminia?

[6] Yes, I am.

[7] Hey, it's Michael Barbaro from the New York Times.

[8] Hi, Michael, can you hear me good?

[9] I can hear you very well.

[10] Okay, good.

[11] Thank you so much for making time for us.

[12] You're very welcome.

[13] The only thing I'm going to say is that, you know, my English is not perfect, but I'm going to try my best.

[14] Am I right that we're going to be calling you Herminia in this interview?

[15] Yes.

[16] That's not your real name.

[17] No. I don't want to be identified.

[18] Got it.

[19] And where am I reaching you right now?

[20] It's early in the evening around 7 o 'clock on Friday.

[21] You're just getting home?

[22] Yes.

[23] You know, I supposed to be home since like 620, but I just finished because I was washing dishes and I just finished.

[24] So that's why, you know, I stealing my car, driving.

[25] But I'm going to park.

[26] When you say you were doing dishes, what is the work?

[27] that you're describing?

[28] Oh, I'm a housekeeper and a nanny.

[29] I take care a three -year -old little boy, and I am the housekeeper.

[30] So, you know, making sure that everything is clean in the kitchen before I leave.

[31] Because I'm supposed to go tomorrow, but I explain my boss that, you know, I'm not feeling comfortable like going out tomorrow.

[32] So, you know, I'd rather stay home to protect myself on my family.

[33] Hermia, let's talk a little bit about how you came to be in the situation that we're going to be talking about.

[34] Where exactly are you from?

[35] Tell me about where you came from and what it was like to go up there.

[36] I'm from Nicaragua.

[37] I came to this country when I was 21 years old.

[38] And I came because I have a daughter.

[39] At that time, she was six years old.

[40] And I used to have some problems with people that belong to the Sandinistas party.

[41] And they run the government and everything.

[42] So it was hard for me to get a job, especially when these people know that you are not fan, you know, of that party.

[43] Let me make sure I understand.

[44] It sounds like you had attracted some kind of negative attention from the government in Nicaragua.

[45] Is that right?

[46] Yes, because, you know, it's not like here.

[47] You can be a Democrat.

[48] You can be a Republican.

[49] And you have a job.

[50] You know, your party is not a big deal.

[51] But in my country, it doesn't work that way.

[52] So I was at home taking care of my daughter.

[53] My husband was working in a cruise line.

[54] But when he was working in this cruise line, they explained him that they were not going to hire him anymore because they were selling the chips.

[55] So, you know, that worried me a lot because I said, okay, what I'm going to do now?

[56] In his way to Nicaragua, he came to Miami to visit his family, his relatives he has here.

[57] And, you know, I have to do the decision to tell him, okay, you know what?

[58] You're going to have to stay in the USA.

[59] You're going to have to stay there, and I'm going to try to, you know, to go.

[60] I used to have my visa, so I didn't see any problem for me to travel.

[61] And I came.

[62] I came without my six years old daughter because at that time she didn't have her passport ready.

[63] So she stayed with my mother -in -law, and I decided to come.

[64] I decided to come for a better future for her.

[65] Okay, let me just make sure I understand.

[66] So your husband had been working for a cruise company, but then he lost his job, and he was headed back to Nicaragua to be with you.

[67] But then you decided that instead he should stay in Miami and that you would try to join him there.

[68] Yes, exactly.

[69] And both you and your husband are undocumented.

[70] Yes.

[71] So we went to a lawyer and he explained us that you have problems in your country.

[72] So we can ask for asylum.

[73] So we request the asylum and we wait.

[74] We got the working for me. We were working.

[75] I started working in a home nurse.

[76] Okay.

[77] HHA, Home Health A. And I start working taking care elderly.

[78] What do you remember about those early days in the U .S.?

[79] What were your first impressions of this country?

[80] You know, something that called me the attention is when I went to the grocery store the first time, you can, you know, you take your stuff, everything you're going to buy, you put it in the cart, and then you go and pay.

[81] You don't see that in my city.

[82] You go to this store, and then it's a big bar in front of you, and you ask for this stuff, they give it to you, and you pay.

[83] But here it's like, you know, even sometimes you get something, you open, you eat it, and then you pay, right?

[84] So I said, wow, I got impressed when I saw that.

[85] Because I said, don't people take stuff and steal it, you know, take it out and, you know, just don't pay for it and they run away.

[86] And my husband explained me, no, you know, here is different.

[87] And, oh, my God, this is beautiful.

[88] How do the mailmen come and get stuff right in front of your door.

[89] and nobody touched it.

[90] And I was like, see the chairs outside the, you know, the houses or decorations for Christmas.

[91] In my country, that will not stay for two hours.

[92] You see, that's a big difference.

[93] And I thought, wow, you know, this is a beautiful country.

[94] What year was that?

[95] That year was, let me remember, from 20, no, 20 or 2 to 20 or 6.

[96] It was the last year I had my working permit.

[97] At the end of the year in 2006, I was supposed to renew my working permit, but they sent me a letter that they cannot renew my working permit.

[98] So after that, I receive a letter from immigration with the asylum case, that it was denied.

[99] It was one page telling me that your case was denied by the judge.

[100] Nothing else.

[101] Just my case was denied.

[102] So that's why I didn't get the chance to get my working permit again.

[103] So these two things are connected, not getting a work permit and not getting asylum.

[104] They're linked.

[105] Yes, because they had the answer from the judge saying that my asylum was denied.

[106] So they had decided that the case that you were making, the reason that you didn't want to go back to Nicaragua, was not sufficient for asylum.

[107] Yes.

[108] I remember they sent me a big folder of things about my country, saying that my country have democracy now.

[109] And it's true because by that time, the Ortegas wasn't in the power.

[110] So I say, okay, you know, what can I do?

[111] There was no job for me. I have a daughter.

[112] You know, I need to do something different.

[113] I need to get a better future for her.

[114] So you seem to be sort of acknowledging that maybe your asylum case was not that strong, but that you really didn't want to go back home to Nicaragua.

[115] I did not want to say, no, no, this is not a place to raise my daughter.

[116] So 2006, I appeal, but the judge denied again.

[117] I remember Bush, President Bush was talking about immigration reform, and my family used to say to me, don't leave, don't, you know, don't plan to go back to Nicaragua because think it's going to get better here.

[118] You're going to have your opportunity to fix your papers.

[119] I stay and I say, okay, okay, as long as I don't have a deportation order, I'm okay.

[120] What I did in the middle of I was trying to get my asylum, I had the chance to bring my daughter through the airport also.

[121] Through the airport?

[122] Yes.

[123] So she came as a tourist, and I said, you're going to stay, Mama.

[124] You're going to stay.

[125] You're not going back.

[126] We are here, and we're going to, you know, we're going to try to do everything that is possible, so we can stay here in this country.

[127] So she just flew to the U .S. as if she was visiting on a vacation, and you kind of snuck her in?

[128] Yes.

[129] After four years I came, she came.

[130] And she never left.

[131] She never left.

[132] So, 2010, I went to my lawyer.

[133] It was him and his wife.

[134] So she asked me, you know, how everything.

[135] And I said, well, you know, just waiting for something to come out.

[136] It was Obama in the power at that time.

[137] Obama was president.

[138] Yes.

[139] And she said to me, you know, don't lose the fate because, you know, this president is good.

[140] And he's going to try to help you out.

[141] And I say, you know what?

[142] I'm okay as long as I don't have a deportation order.

[143] So she said to me, yes, you have a deportation order.

[144] And I say, no, I don't have any.

[145] I said, thank God, you know, I don't have any.

[146] And she said, so there she explained me. Once a judge denied a case out of medically is a deportation order.

[147] So she is telling you that the denial of your asylum years earlier, that had been the deportation order.

[148] Yeah, that's what she explained.

[149] So she called this toll free phone from Homeland Security, where you put your alien number.

[150] And she put my alien number, and I heard the message that say, the judge denied the case for this person, you know, say my name, and make the order of removals.

[151] And she said, you see, you have a deportation order.

[152] Oh, my God, when she said that to me, everything fell apart.

[153] My face was so warm.

[154] She said, are you okay?

[155] And I said, oh, my God, I can't believe this.

[156] What?

[157] No, no, it's impossible.

[158] I said, why I have a deportationer and nobody tell me nothing?

[159] Nobody's saying anything to me. So she said, no, they not always do that.

[160] But you have a deportationer, so be careful, try not to stay in a place for many years.

[161] She gave me some advice.

[162] I came off from that office and I sat down and I told my husband, you know, we need to talk.

[163] and I explained him what happened to me. And I say, if it happened to me, it's the same with you.

[164] So I said to him, you know, what are we going to do?

[165] At a time, he was working in construction, and I started working as a housekeeper because I didn't have, you know, my working permit anymore.

[166] And we sold the car we had.

[167] Why?

[168] Because it was the beginning of being alive without a driver license, being alive without a paper that showed me that I was legal in the country.

[169] We try not to go out.

[170] You know, usually in the weekends we used to go out.

[171] I was scared.

[172] We didn't want to get pulled over by, you know, by the police, and I don't know what the police is going to do with us and just try to stay away from anything that can put you in a bad position.

[173] And how many people like you?

[174] Did you know how many of your friends and the people you work with are also undocumented?

[175] Or did you feel very alone?

[176] At the beginning, yes, I thought I was the only one.

[177] But then when people start telling me stories, people that were a citizen already and say, you know what, I've been in this country for 15 years without papers.

[178] And then when I start talking to people that maybe I never in my life, I would think they were undocumented.

[179] They say to me, you know what, don't say anything, but I don't have paper either, there's many people.

[180] Many people.

[181] I have a friend from Argentina.

[182] She's a lady.

[183] She's a white lady, beautiful.

[184] She always dressed up pretty.

[185] And one day, you know, when we have, like, the trust to talk about this, she said to me, I have been in this country for 17 years, and I don't have papers.

[186] And I was like, oh, okay, well, you know, it's something that, believe it or not, help you a lot because it's okay, I'm not, I'm not alone in this.

[187] I am not alone.

[188] So I said, okay, you know what, I'm going to stay here.

[189] I'm going to try to live my life.

[190] I'm going to try to work, you know, feed my family and try to be calm and until one day we see the light.

[191] But I never feel afraid.

[192] I'm afraid I never feel the scare that I feel now because the fear is there every single day.

[193] Trump, he makes sure to remind you that he's coming for you.

[194] He's going to catch you.

[195] He's going to send you back home.

[196] You know, it's something that's done God that I don't get mental illness because I will be crazy by now.

[197] Well, let's talk about this.

[198] In what form do you hear that message every day?

[199] that the president is coming for you?

[200] Sometimes, sometimes I cry because, you know, it's not nice to hear somebody telling you every day, you are this, you are this, you, you know, you, you know, you, like, oh, my God, what I did bad, just staying in a country where I want to feel safe.

[201] I don't know.

[202] I don't know.

[203] Right now, I'm in my car talking to you.

[204] And I know when I get through that door, I have to turn off that light.

[205] I stay in my room.

[206] Why?

[207] You mean once you get home tonight, you need to lock the door and turn off the light, and you won't go back outside.

[208] You can't go back outside because this weekend there will be those rates.

[209] Yes.

[210] We'll be right back.

[211] What have the last few days been like for you since you found out that these, these raids were coming?

[212] The first time, I was okay.

[213] I'm not going to lie.

[214] That was a Thursday.

[215] I was okay.

[216] On Friday, I was cleaning my boss room when everything, the first call asking me, are you okay, you know, are you prepared?

[217] And they say, okay, look, I don't want to scare you, but you need to be careful because they are looking for people that have deportation order.

[218] And so people you know are calling you and saying we hear there are raids coming.

[219] Yeah.

[220] But when I received the second call, I realized, okay, this is serious.

[221] Okay.

[222] Hello.

[223] Come back to Earth.

[224] It's happening.

[225] So that was a week ago.

[226] And the raids were, in fact, rescheduled for this weekend.

[227] That's our understanding.

[228] And yours, too.

[229] So you are now sitting in your car.

[230] It's 8 p .m. on Friday night.

[231] Yeah.

[232] Once you go inside after we finish talking, you probably won't come back out all weekend.

[233] Is that right?

[234] Yes.

[235] We decide to stay home, but with rules, nobody's going to open the door.

[236] Nobody, I have a note, a big note in front of my doors, you know, that say, do not open the door, don't answer.

[237] So when somebody comes to knock on my door, we have to go to my daughter's room.

[238] to check through the window in her room to see who is knocking on the door before open.

[239] The window is down, you know, it's closed.

[240] The light in the living room is going to be off.

[241] The TV is going to be really low.

[242] Right now I told them, do not turn on the light.

[243] Just put this small lamp that we have.

[244] you know so if somebody's trying to look inside they're not able to see inside and you know right now I'm parking in my neighbor parking lot she parked in my parking lot she's a citizen so she said to me you know what let day come for me so you park in my parking lot the one in front of me I told her that starting Monday before or I open the door to go to my job, something weird, she will let me know.

[245] Mm -hmm.

[246] So you'll be able to figure out if you'll be able to detect if there are immigration or police officers.

[247] Before I head out to work on Monday, I have to call her.

[248] So she has to come out and see that, you know, everything is clear, so I can't come out and go to work.

[249] This sounds really hard.

[250] It is.

[251] It is because you think it's going to be only a week?

[252] Yeah, it could be only a week.

[253] But there is a list.

[254] There is a list of people.

[255] Do you think, Hermionea, that your name is on that list?

[256] I don't know.

[257] I don't know.

[258] Hermione, what do you say to the listeners, of which I'm sure there are some, who are hearing your story and are saying to themselves that all this sounds really, really hard, but are also saying that you were not granted citizenship or asylum, and what that means is that you can't stay.

[259] You're not here legally, and that this is just law enforcement and enforcement of the law.

[260] sometimes sometimes you have to not being perfect think about the family be human being be humble to understanding the hard situation people have in Central America of course not everybody can come and stay and they said do your papers or you know what do it the illegal way explain me what is the legal way?

[261] If I was in my country right now, what is the legal way to come here and stay here?

[262] It sounds like you have an appreciation for Americans who are thinking to themselves that the United States can't accept every person who is unhappy in their own country, who wants a better life.

[263] Not appreciation.

[264] They repeat this phrase.

[265] every single day.

[266] Oh, so everybody who wants to come to this country just come and stay and it's not that.

[267] At the moment, somebody live their country.

[268] It's for a reason.

[269] It's for a reason.

[270] America is big enough to have immigrants.

[271] You know why I love this country?

[272] Because I have my three times of food.

[273] Because right now, Now I can come outside and say whatever I want, because I have freedom to speech.

[274] I can't do that in my country.

[275] Hermia, I really want to thank you so much for talking to us.

[276] You're very welcome.

[277] My daughter called, and I don't know if she's home.

[278] I don't see her car here yet.

[279] I'm walking before I get in front of the building okay my windows are closed the light is on so I'm going to talk about this again let me check my my mail before I get inside because I don't want to go back on the side okay I'm going through the stair You're going to hear my dog is barking when I get in.

[280] Because they are the first one that comes through the door to say hi to Mommy.

[281] Hi.

[282] You're just so.

[283] You're moved.

[284] I've been, no, there's nobody.

[285] No, have been nobody.

[286] And the crystal?

[287] And Leah?

[288] As of Sunday night, the large -scale immigration raids scheduled to begin over the weekend had not occurred.

[289] The Times reports that the operation was delayed after being widely publicized, tipping off undocumented immigrants and giving them time to hide.

[290] The Trump administration had previously told the Times that these raids were part of a strategy of deterrence designed to discourage undocumented people from coming to or staying inside the country.

[291] Hermania spent the weekend in her home and says she may go back to work today.

[292] She now believes the raids will come at any moment and without any notice.

[293] We'll be right back.

[294] Here's what else you need to know today.

[295] On Sunday, President Trump weighed in on the growing tensions between House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and four Liberal House freshmen, declaring that the freshmen should return to the countries, quote, from which they came.

[296] Three of the lawmakers, Ayanna Presley, Rashida Talib, and Alexandria Ocasio -Cortez were born in the United States.

[297] The fourth, Ilhan Omar, was born in Somalia, but became a U .S. citizen as a teenager.

[298] Democratic lawmakers immediately called the president's message racist and xenophobic.

[299] In a tweet, Pelosi wrote, quote, when at real Donald Trump tells four American congresswomen to go back to their countries, he reaffirms his plan to make America great again, has always been about making America white again.

[300] And...

[301] I am frustrated because this shouldn't happen.

[302] You know, I have been through all sorts of emergencies and things happened that you couldn't anticipate.

[303] We've been here before.

[304] I've seen this movie.

[305] We've all seen this movie.

[306] Con Ed, the company that provides electricity to much of New York City, has apologized for a power outage in Manhattan on Saturday night that shut down subway lines, stranded people in elevators, canceled Broadway shows, and left more than 70 ,000 customers without power for hours.

[307] In Midtown, after the lights went out, the cast of several shows chose to deliver their performances on the street.

[308] That's it for the daily.

[309] I'm Michael Babaro.

[310] See you tomorrow.